| 00:34.14 | *** join/#utah Mister_Ed (n=Mister_E@71-36-76-136.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 00:47.22 | Sargun | a player hits a home run to left or centre field during tonight's World Series game say YAY!! |
| 00:50.07 | Tene | "NetSurf users are reeling from HSBC's shock decision to suspend their accounts because their RISC OS computers are allegedly infected with spyware. The high street bank has confused the open source browser NetSurf with a strain of PC malware going by the same name, and has locked their customers out for security reasons, it is believed. Punters say they were forced to turn up at their local branch with photo ID and sign a form promising to ... |
| 00:50.12 | Tene | ... use Microsoft Windows XP with anti-virus software installed before they could access their money again." |
| 00:50.15 | Tene | http://www.drobe.co.uk/riscos/artifact1722.html |
| 00:52.19 | *** join/#utah graphy1 (n=graphyx@205.208.245.105) |
| 00:59.00 | nick125_lappy | HSBC has done something really stupid before.. |
| 00:59.57 | nick125_lappy | I think they had some firefox issues before |
| 01:07.59 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 01:17.31 | *** join/#utah markl_ (n=mark@mail.knm.org) |
| 01:18.52 | elg | If all of your friends told you that they win money on the slot machines whenever they stick their fingers in their own ears, would you try it? Or would you assume that since there is no obvious reason it could work, it’s not worth the effort? |
| 01:19.18 | graphy1 | Well if I gambled |
| 01:19.25 | graphy1 | And it appeared to work for them. |
| 01:19.30 | graphy1 | I might try it just to see... |
| 01:19.51 | graphy1 | Gamblers have some weird superstitions |
| 01:19.53 | elg | :) it's from http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2006/10/affirmations.html |
| 01:21.46 | graphy1 | interesting. I'll have to read that when I get more time. |
| 01:31.54 | graphyx | get your plugins working? |
| 01:42.30 | *** join/#utah herlo (n=herlo@adsl-70-137-128-50.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) |
| 01:44.50 | levi_home | I saw a friend win a bunch of money at the roulette table. |
| 01:44.58 | levi_home | No fingers in the ears were involved, though. |
| 01:51.31 | *** join/#utah bonez41 (n=aint@c-67-166-77-14.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 01:54.00 | graphyx | My older bro won $16K$ at a poker tournament last Saturday. |
| 01:54.05 | graphyx | He won his way into it as well. |
| 01:54.13 | graphyx | but didn't get anything during the next round. |
| 01:55.00 | bonez41 | did he lose much of it, or walk away and put it in the bank? |
| 01:55.58 | Sargun | graphyx, Isn't it against the mormon religion to gamble? |
| 02:00.04 | bonez41 | what's 'gambling' anyway? does a Farmer gamble by planting a crop, on whether it will rain or be a drought... |
| 02:00.28 | bonez41 | gambling is such a loose term...doesn't one gamble by climbing into a vehicle and driving on the highway? |
| 02:00.59 | bonez41 | how about college...that's a gamble.....a bet on a certain course of study....paying off after graduation |
| 02:01.34 | Sargun | yeah. |
| 02:01.45 | Sargun | an uncalculated gamble |
| 02:01.46 | *** join/#utah markl_ (n=mark@mail.knm.org) |
| 02:02.35 | bonez41 | if someone knows what they are doing, and they enter a casino..and with self control...wager a set amount of money and leave.....when they are ahead...they can do it and not allow it to become a problem... |
| 02:03.26 | levi_home | I think the official LDS stance on gambling is clearly against it, but that doesn't mean that no Mormons in good standing ever engage in practices that might be considered gambling. |
| 02:03.38 | bonez41 | it's like drinking........ or anything....it can be seductive..and some can't control their actions....some can have a drink or two, and no big deal..others aren't satisfied until they are swimming in the keg or barrel, or punchbowl.....those types should never drink, or gamble, or do anything else potentially dangerous |
| 02:04.22 | bonez41 | if someone goes to court..they are gambling....betting on a jury or judge voting for them.....rather than against them...it's a crapshoot.....as well as starting a business....... |
| 02:05.02 | graphyx | Sargun: who said anything about my brother being mormon? |
| 02:05.16 | Sargun | graphyx, I assumed it to be. |
| 02:05.43 | graphyx | He has been inactive for 18 years. |
| 02:06.06 | Sargun | ah |
| 02:06.57 | graphyx | bonez41: Just because the term gambling has been related to any endevour where the outcome isn't completely known, doesn't mean that we can refer to the act of playing card games or other such events where money is directly wagered over the potential outcome as gambling and understand it. |
| 02:07.15 | graphyx | doesn't mean that we can't refer ... |
| 02:08.21 | levi_home | I think the strongest parallels you can make between gambling games and an activity that's typically considered legitimate is stock market investment. |
| 02:08.53 | levi_home | Er, s/parallels/parallel/ |
| 02:09.40 | bonez41 | graphyx, clearly, it's a vague term.. |
| 02:09.53 | graphyx | True, but I feel that those who counsel against gambling in the casino sense would also suggest that those investments be made with good research as well. |
| 02:10.44 | levi_home | If gambling is generally immoral, and investing in the stock market is generally moral, there must be a difference between them aside from the factor of chance. |
| 02:10.44 | graphyx | bonez41: When a church leader says, don't gamble do we not know what they are refering to? |
| 02:11.44 | levi_home | I think it comes down to intent and atmosphere. And I think that playing the market as one would play at a gambling table would probably fall under the same category as a gambling game. |
| 02:12.16 | bonez41 | they are specifically referring to cards, slot machines, roulette......it requires each member to obtain their own confirmation about how they should live..... |
| 02:12.58 | graphyx | bonez41: Yep. |
| 02:14.05 | bonez41 | ah, when the bishop asks.....of an Attorney, or a public safety officer who is an Investigator....Are you Honest in all your dealings........ blah blah...I often wonder how an attorney or investigator answers..when their job often requires overt and bear faced lying and deception... |
| 02:16.35 | bonez41 | investigators, by default, are required to lie and cheat and coerce..and dig crap out of people,. often stuff that's fabricated, just to shut up the investigator....I guess there aren't that many in the church, who can honestly pass the temple rec. interview....wtih a clear conscience before God |
| 02:17.07 | graphyx | Yeah, that whole thing about under cover agents and such.. |
| 02:17.33 | graphyx | Are you honest? yeah except for the fact that I don't work at a dairy farm and do beat the crap out of terrorists on a regular basis... |
| 02:18.12 | bonez41 | graphyx, hehehe...that's funny.... |
| 02:18.36 | graphyx | I don't know how they are suppose to respond.. |
| 02:18.50 | bonez41 | we'll never be respected around the world until we uphold a higher standard for treatment of prisoners than all others use |
| 02:19.18 | graphyx | I suppose that one would have to seek the counsel before joining that particular group as they probably wouldn't wear garments to not be out of character. |
| 02:19.28 | bonez41 | my wife used to struggle with that...working as an insurance supervisor....where her job was to hold back information, to keep people in the dark and not tell them about all their benefits and ways they could cash in.... |
| 02:19.53 | graphyx | the incredibles. |
| 02:20.06 | bonez41 | graphyx, they have special garments for military, special forces...Black garments.....designed for the secret operative in mind.. |
| 02:20.33 | bonez41 | I asked one day when I went to stock up....but you have to show them ID to show you are police or military...... |
| 02:20.35 | graphyx | true.. |
| 02:20.58 | graphyx | but that still would be quite a bit different for individuals going to a different culture that doesn't wear undershirts... |
| 02:21.05 | graphyx | not that I have specifics in mind.. |
| 02:22.36 | graphyx | People at the NSA can answer it just fine. |
| 02:22.50 | graphyx | Yes I am honest, I just don't talk to anyone about my work.. |
| 02:23.09 | graphyx | Or only use the non classified information set they have. |
| 02:23.14 | graphyx | with those without creds. |
| 02:23.42 | bonez41 | clearly, they have to conceal their work...but even then..they have to answer to their God..about how they do their work, whether they are cruel...whether they ruin another's life....inadvertently..... |
| 02:25.50 | bonez41 | it's interesting..to think about all the angles... |
| 02:27.11 | bonez41 | graphyx, back to "when a church leader says..." .. consider drugs...they church in the past has condemned various things including "ilicit drugs"...I believe they now just say 'drugs' without the 'ilicit'... a drug is a drug....it alters function and feeling and behavior...... |
| 02:27.57 | graphyx | abusing prescription drugs is just as bad as non prescription drugs. |
| 02:28.03 | bonez41 | it's drug free week at my children's school....tomorrow I am sending them with a letter....to ask their teachers why Cocaine...that fine white snow..is the same molecule as Ritalin....the stuff they freely pass out to so many children...... |
| 02:28.06 | Sargun | uhh.l |
| 02:28.09 | bonez41 | a drug is a drug..... |
| 02:28.39 | graphyx | yeah I avoid caffeine for that reason. |
| 02:30.00 | bonez41 | caffeine is clearly a drug......and one widely abused......by saints and sinners alike..... |
| 02:30.41 | Sargun | uhh. |
| 02:30.55 | graphyx | I don't have any problems using it to keep you awake for driving. |
| 02:30.59 | Sargun | bonez41, Red ribbon week? |
| 02:31.07 | graphyx | But that is about my only reason I use it. |
| 02:31.12 | graphyx | and my wife uses it for migrains |
| 02:31.17 | graphyx | instead of heavy pain killers. |
| 02:31.21 | graphyx | which would be worse.. |
| 02:31.41 | Sargun | bonez41, "Well, the officer tells us that ritalin cannot be abused as easily, and it doesn't play tricks on your mind, nor does it rot ones nasal tissues" |
| 02:32.02 | graphyx | the sin of abusing Ritalin is upon the parents. Not the kids. |
| 02:33.27 | graphyx | Lets be honest I am sure that there are lots of people who would rather get a prescription than faith. |
| 02:33.43 | Sargun | I would rather get a prescription than have faith |
| 02:34.27 | *** join/#utah |BF2142|Spark420 (n=tracekil@24.5.239.236) |
| 02:34.35 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Lol, jesus. |
| 02:34.52 | elg | ~language |BF2142|Spark420 |
| 02:34.53 | ibot | ACTION grabs |BF2142|Spark420 by the ear and washes |BF2142|Spark420's mouth out with soap |
| 02:35.09 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Jesus is a bad word? |
| 02:35.14 | *** mode/#utah [+o elg] by ChanServ |
| 02:35.24 | |BF2142|Spark420 | I thought he was lord? |
| 02:35.34 | elg | http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2006/10/affirmations.html |
| 02:35.34 | levi_home | That's called 'Taking the Lord's name in vain' |
| 02:35.40 | *** part/#utah |BF2142|Spark420 (n=tracekil@24.5.239.236) |
| 02:35.50 | Sargun | elg, that was quick |
| 02:35.51 | *** join/#utah |BF2142|Spark420 (n=tracekil@24.5.239.236) |
| 02:35.56 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Whoa there. |
| 02:36.03 | *** join/#utah kryptech1 (n=kmicinsk@207.210.205.28) |
| 02:36.05 | |BF2142|Spark420 | So how is the weather in Utah? |
| 02:36.11 | elg | -weather kpvu |
| 02:36.11 | brac | 21 minutes ago, on Wed Oct 25 02:15:00 UTC 2006, the wind was blowing at a speed of 3.60 meters per second (8.06 miles per hour) from the South/Southeast at KPVU. The temperature was 12 degrees Celsius (54 degrees Fahrenheit), and the pressure was 1011 hPa (29.00 inHg). The relative humidity was 46.9%. The sky was clear. |
| 02:37.07 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Are you at least willing to bear some opposition to your faith? I swear myself to maintain a firm composure and respect your beliefs but truly what good is faith if you cannot support it? |
| 02:37.57 | elg | sure, just watch what you say in respect of the dominant belief of the channel. that's all we ask |
| 02:38.09 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Aye. |
| 02:38.13 | kryptech1 | what's that in utah? |
| 02:38.23 | kryptech1 | christianity? |
| 02:38.36 | graphyx | indeed. |
| 02:38.46 | |BF2142|Spark420 | So, if I get banned from #Utah does that mean the local authorities will be alerted to my presence whenever I land there? |
| 02:39.05 | kryptech1 | nah, just the local IRC users |
| 02:39.19 | |BF2142|Spark420 | You guys aren't discriminatory to other religions are you? |
| 02:39.23 | levi_home | #utah doesn't really have geographic boundaries. |
| 02:39.35 | graphyx | |BF2142|Spark420: nope. |
| 02:39.38 | Tene | |BF2142|Spark420: no, we aren't. |
| 02:39.42 | elg | several different religions and lack thereof in here |
| 02:39.43 | graphyx | Just people who are disrespectful. |
| 02:39.49 | |BF2142|Spark420 | I'm an Epicurian. |
| 02:40.10 | kryptech1 | "Jesus, he mows my lawn" |
| 02:40.20 | elg | we have some chefs too |
| 02:41.02 | kryptech1 | I'm christian, but I'm not offended by others, that's what you get in an dominant religion. |
| 02:41.29 | levi_home | Epicurian in the sense of following the philosophy of Epicurus? |
| 02:41.32 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Chefs? |
| 02:41.33 | elg | that almost makes sense |
| 02:41.45 | |BF2142|Spark420 | And yes levi it is. |
| 02:42.15 | |BF2142|Spark420 | It's all the moral security of being an agnostic with the pleasures of enjoying one's self. |
| 02:42.20 | graphyx | yeah, chefs are really weird, right redbeard1? |
| 02:42.32 | levi_home | In common English, epicure describes one who takes pleasure in food and drink. Thus, the chefs here. |
| 02:43.11 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Those are the bliefs of epicurianism in extreme brevity, however. |
| 02:43.13 | levi_home | |BF2142|Spark420: Plus, you get to believe in atoms! |
| 02:43.43 | |BF2142|Spark420 | You don't believe in atoms? |
| 02:43.45 | graphyx | some mormons are more epicurians than mormon. |
| 02:43.58 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Mormons scare me. |
| 02:44.05 | levi_home | Of course I do. |
| 02:44.22 | graphyx | Believe in them? They are part of me! |
| 02:44.36 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Ok, good. |
| 02:44.38 | |BF2142|Spark420 | You scared me. |
| 02:44.40 | levi_home | It's just that one of Epicurus's defining beliefs was atomism. |
| 02:44.49 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Yep. |
| 02:45.03 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Plays a huge role in their belief, or lack thereof, of the afterlife. |
| 02:45.27 | rsimpkins | amcnabb: Around? |
| 02:45.54 | graphyx | There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes. We cannot see it, but when our bodies are purified, we shall see that it is all matter. |
| 02:45.54 | graphyx | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:46.27 | graphyx | well nite time for me. |
| 02:46.28 | graphyx | ttyl |
| 02:46.28 | levi_home | Epicurian beliefs are far more palatable to me than Hedonistic ones. |
| 02:46.52 | graphyx | or cannabalistic ones? |
| 02:47.15 | *** mode/#utah [+o levi_home] by elg |
| 02:47.20 | *** join/#utah jnbek (n=jnbek@24.10.178.17) |
| 02:47.22 | |BF2142|Spark420 | I tried being a cannabal. |
| 02:47.29 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Weak GI tract put a swift end to that. |
| 02:50.41 | *** join/#utah jsmith (n=jsmith@dsl253-055-082.dfw1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 02:50.54 | *** join/#utah jnbek_ (n=jnbek@24.10.178.17) |
| 02:51.30 | *** join/#utah jnbek (n=jnbek@24.10.178.17) |
| 02:51.33 | elg | ~logs |
| 02:51.40 | ibot | apt/ibot/jbot/purl all log to http://ibot.rikers.org/<channelname>/ where channelname is html encoded ie: %23debian | lines that start with a space are not shown | some channels have stats at http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/<channelname>.html.gz, or updated "nightly" |
| 02:53.21 | |BF2142|Spark420 | I think I'm going to start believing that god is a computer. |
| 02:53.44 | Tene | |BF2142|Spark420: define "computer" |
| 02:53.59 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Jesusbot 3000 |
| 02:54.25 | levi_home | elg: I have an air popper I inherited. How is the stircrazy superior to an air popper? |
| 02:54.53 | levi_home | |BF2142|Spark420: That would require moving away from agnosticism, though. |
| 02:55.42 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Yeah. |
| 02:55.44 | |BF2142|Spark420 | True. |
| 02:55.55 | levi_home | |BF2142|Spark420: And it might have interesting things to say about determinism and free will, which again might potentially conflict with Epicurianism. |
| 02:55.57 | elg | levi_home: oil |
| 02:56.00 | |BF2142|Spark420 | I acknowledge the belief of but do not personally recognize god as a computer. |
| 02:56.21 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Epicurianostism. |
| 02:56.24 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Problem solved. |
| 02:56.35 | elg | an air popper makes popcorn that tastes like "packing material" as AB put it |
| 02:56.42 | elg | and salt doesn't stick to it |
| 02:56.49 | elg | enough butter and you mitigate the problem |
| 02:56.52 | levi_home | But it's healthy! ;) |
| 02:56.54 | Tene | Yeah. air-popped == ew. |
| 02:57.15 | elg | so are string beans. :) |
| 02:57.36 | levi_home | Popcorn isn't fit for consumption without caramel, anyway. |
| 02:57.38 | elg | stir crazy is the easiest way except air popping to get homemade (not microwave) popcorn |
| 02:57.56 | elg | I love caramel corn, but my wife always turns up her nose when I suggest is |
| 02:58.19 | nick125_lappy | dude, caramel corn is awesome |
| 02:58.22 | elg | and very few unpopped kernels and no burnt |
| 02:58.24 | levi_home | My dear wife made some sort of abomination last time she popped some corn with orange Jell-O. |
| 02:58.30 | |BF2142|Spark420 | I once modded an air popper to infuse cannabis into the popcorn. |
| 02:58.33 | *** join/#utah Robdor (n=rob@67-40-119-227.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 02:58.36 | |BF2142|Spark420 | It kind of sucked. |
| 02:58.41 | elg | lol |
| 02:58.59 | levi_home | Well, duh. I'm sure cannabis tastes nothing like caramel. |
| 02:59.20 | elg | although hemp does have a slightly sweet smell |
| 02:59.25 | |BF2142|Spark420 | No cannabis is normally deliscious. |
| 02:59.38 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Chronic pops = awesome |
| 02:59.45 | elg | or maybe it didn't go away, I just stopped being a teenager |
| 03:00.04 | elg | i'll never know |
| 03:00.53 | elg | heh, I was in a funny mood and after reading that Scott Adams post about affirmations I wrote a short script to make an aiff of "Bruce" telling me I'm becoming a pilot 15 times |
| 03:01.01 | elg | now I just need to set up a cron job... |
| 03:01.10 | levi_home | elg: I'm pretty sure you can still find hemp jewelry. I had a bead necklace that was threaded with hemp. It's not nearly as durable as nylon! |
| 03:01.24 | elg | I'm sure you can find it. |
| 03:01.26 | levi_home | Who's Bruce? |
| 03:01.29 | elg | I just don't see it much. |
| 03:01.39 | elg | just one of the OS X TTS voices |
| 03:01.41 | levi_home | Well, this was in American Eagle. |
| 03:01.51 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Do you guys know the Nigga stole my bike ytmnd joke? |
| 03:02.11 | elg | nope |
| 03:02.12 | elg | do you? |
| 03:02.15 | levi_home | |BF2142|Spark420: Are you still trying to be offensive, or what? |
| 03:02.36 | elg | maybe we can line up some training |
| 03:02.47 | elg | ~buckybot |BF2142|Spark420 |
| 03:02.48 | ibot | |BF2142|Spark420: you're a stupid idiot, and I can tell you that all I want, but if you say anything mean to me, I'll start crying and insulting everything I can, because you're discriminating against me! |
| 03:03.39 | |BF2142|Spark420 | It's a classic, yet admitedly racist, joke in which a member of ytmnd.com edited an old 16Bit console game wherein a white coach was chasing after a black boxer-in-training on his bike. |
| 03:03.59 | |BF2142|Spark420 | And added the aforementioned rather distasteful comment. |
| 03:04.17 | levi_home | Ahh, from Punch-Out! |
| 03:04.53 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Yeah. |
| 03:05.44 | levi_home | Played the game, hadn't seen the joke. |
| 03:11.39 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (i=linuxali@gateway/tor/x-b25825097a54904c) |
| 03:15.45 | linuxalien | :P |
| 03:16.51 | levi_home | Mmm, TCP lab. |
| 03:16.56 | elg | tcp is for sissies. write your own network stack |
| 03:17.02 | elg | on top of ethernet |
| 03:17.37 | *** part/#utah linuxalien (i=linuxali@gateway/tor/x-b25825097a54904c) |
| 03:17.38 | levi_home | elg: That could potentially be far easier than writing a TCP/IP stack on top of ethernet. |
| 03:18.38 | levi_home | Judging by the size of the 'TCP/IP Illustrated' tomes sitting at my desk, there are a lot of details to account for! |
| 03:23.05 | bonez41 | elg, if you got email at an office, not at your home, and email at home too..how would you set things up, so that you were looking at the same email resources at both places? |
| 03:23.52 | Tene | use imap for both |
| 03:26.06 | bonez41 | imap....eh? |
| 03:26.30 | bonez41 | Tene, does imap allow for calendar sharing, collaboration that way...? as one would have with Exchange server? |
| 03:26.45 | |BF2142|Spark420 | DAMMIT I WANT FlightSim X!!! |
| 03:26.58 | Tene | yeah |
| 03:28.44 | Sargun | I reccomend you stop cussing. |
| 03:28.54 | Sargun | #utah has much influence over lesser minds |
| 03:29.19 | |BF2142|Spark420 | dammit? |
| 03:29.42 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Damn is in the bible, dammit only being the urban, objective abbreviation for that |
| 03:30.58 | Tene | |BF2142|Spark420: are you really saying that you don't understand what that that means? |
| 03:31.10 | |BF2142|Spark420 | All I know is: |
| 03:31.11 | |BF2142|Spark420 | http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f144/tracekill/1156160386168.jpg |
| 03:31.19 | Tene | Do you really not understand what we're saying is acceptable here and what isn't? |
| 03:31.36 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Nazi Kitty demands obedience! |
| 03:31.37 | |BF2142|Spark420 | http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f144/tracekill/1156160386168.jpg |
| 03:33.24 | Sargun | Is meth a stimulant? |
| 03:33.34 | levi_home | Yes. |
| 03:33.35 | Tene | yeah |
| 03:33.46 | Sargun | So, it'll wake you up? |
| 03:33.46 | Tene | it's an amphetamine. |
| 03:33.57 | Sargun | Ah. |
| 03:34.18 | levi_home | Sargun: For days at a time, yes. And make you nervously pick at your skin, and eventually rot your teeth. |
| 03:34.35 | Sargun | Uh, thats not good. |
| 03:34.59 | levi_home | No, it's not. It's also highly addictive. |
| 03:35.00 | *** join/#utah spiderbiter (n=spiderbi@67.186.237.69) |
| 03:35.12 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Meth |
| 03:35.12 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Is bad |
| 03:35.19 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Sargun Ill disown you if you take meth |
| 03:35.20 | levi_home | And fairly easy to make, though a bad batch can easily kill you. |
| 03:35.21 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Its just stupid |
| 03:35.35 | |BF2142|Spark420 | I know how its made and furthermore how to make its |
| 03:35.41 | |BF2142|Spark420 | its incredibly easy to screw up |
| 03:35.53 | Sargun | Yeah, |BF2142|Spark420 we never had this convo. |
| 03:36.19 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Good. |
| 03:36.24 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Id never take meth |
| 03:36.28 | |BF2142|Spark420 | its just stupid as hell |
| 03:36.35 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Weed is perfectly good for me |
| 03:36.38 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Covers all the bases |
| 03:37.41 | findlay | |BF2142|Spark420: say something inflammatory |
| 03:37.52 | findlay | so we can all have a good flame war |
| 03:37.55 | Sargun | lol |
| 03:38.11 | Sargun | does meth smell? |
| 03:38.26 | findlay | methamphetamine, heh |
| 03:38.57 | Sargun | People are so stupid! (Myself included) |
| 03:39.00 | findlay | the strongest narcotic known to mankind is so potent you have to dilute it 1200 parts per 1 so that it doesn't kill you |
| 03:39.12 | Sargun | what is it? |
| 03:39.22 | findlay | addicting drugs are just a bad idea |
| 03:39.30 | findlay | stay away from them |
| 03:39.39 | Sargun | I will |
| 03:39.49 | *** join/#utah vex (i=nwood@stutter.prohosting.com) |
| 03:39.51 | Sargun | I'm trying to prove that this girl didn't do them |
| 03:39.54 | Sargun | vex, hey |
| 03:40.07 | Tene | Sargun: why don't you just ask her? |
| 03:40.42 | Sargun | Tene, because she is lying. |
| 03:40.48 | Sargun | And its bugging the crap out of me. |
| 03:41.16 | levi_home | She's telling you she did meth? |
| 03:43.45 | *** join/#utah el_gaucho (n=bigdog@zeus.thebigdog.biz) |
| 03:43.47 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Inflammatory? |
| 03:45.01 | |BF2142|Spark420 | I think anti-marijuana laws are ridiculous. Marijuana is a mellow drug, it doesn't cause a trip, it doesn't disorient or confuse you to the extent that you cannot go about your daily life and it sure as hell doesn't kill you. |
| 03:45.34 | *** part/#utah el_gaucho (n=bigdog@zeus.thebigdog.biz) |
| 03:46.11 | findlay | nuh uh marijuanjua is teh sux0rz! |
| 03:46.46 | findlay | I'm sure you could say the same for tobacco |
| 03:47.06 | findlay | and yet tobacco is hardly harmless |
| 03:47.25 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Yet cigarettes, into which the companies back barrels of embalming fluid, poisons and other carcinogens, is completely legal. |
| 03:47.27 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Why is it teh sux0rz? |
| 03:47.32 | |BF2142|Spark420 | ANy stastics |
| 03:47.33 | |BF2142|Spark420 | proof? |
| 03:48.16 | findlay | because |
| 03:48.22 | findlay | because I said so |
| 03:48.39 | findlay | because no flames are no fun |
| 03:49.02 | levi_home | |BF2142|Spark420: Don't mind findlay. |
| 03:49.18 | findlay | hey, I'm just trying to have a good time |
| 03:51.11 | Sargun | He is cool |
| 03:51.40 | Sargun | (findlay) |
| 03:51.48 | Sargun | ( |BF2142|Spark420 not so much) |
| 03:53.03 | levi_home | Your notes, or someone else's? |
| 03:53.37 | findlay | mine, but I wrote them so furiously and with so many shorthands it's hard to translate |
| 03:53.47 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Sargun |
| 03:53.49 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Ramya |
| 03:53.51 | |BF2142|Spark420 | oral sex |
| 03:53.52 | |BF2142|Spark420 | walrus |
| 03:53.59 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Just put them together i dont have time to formulate a joke. |
| 03:54.06 | findlay | hey, no walruses in #utah |
| 03:54.07 | Sargun | lol |
| 03:58.15 | |BF2142|Spark420 | http://macrochan.be/vjejkcep/source/7/P/7PB7GVLSRDODJUXGOVTYZVPXH4OQ74X3.jpg |
| 04:12.57 | |BF2142|Spark420 | http://fuhrerchan.be/ma/src/1160204164115.jpg |
| 04:13.00 | |BF2142|Spark420 | http://fuhrerchan.be/ma/src/1160204164115.jpg |
| 04:13.04 | |BF2142|Spark420 | http://fuhrerchan.be/ma/src/1160204164115.jpg |
| 04:13.40 | Sargun | lmao |
| 04:15.30 | findlay | lamo? |
| 04:22.26 | mheath | Didn't we have some MD's who frequented this channel at one point? |
| 04:22.47 | |BF2142|Spark420 | MD? |
| 04:23.32 | mheath | Medical Doctor. |
| 04:23.40 | bonez41 | how about Chiropractor |
| 04:23.55 | bonez41 | but yeah, I thought there was one who was here occasionally |
| 04:24.04 | mheath | bonez41: Are you a Chiropractor? :P |
| 04:24.13 | bonez41 | mheath, aye |
| 04:24.42 | mheath | What are the requirements for becoming a chiropractor? Is it training exclusively in chiropracting, or does it include a complete medical basis? |
| 04:25.45 | mheath | IE, could you provide a generic un-official-but-educated answer to a medical related issue that doesn't involve the spine? |
| 04:29.56 | findlay | ~chiropracticate mheath |
| 04:34.22 | |BF2142|Spark420 | The way I understood it is that you have to take your premed then go to a medical school and specialize. |
| 04:34.44 | mheath | So bonez41 would have a basic universal medical background |
| 04:34.56 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Oh yeah |
| 04:34.57 | |BF2142|Spark420 | For sure. |
| 04:35.04 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Depends on your question |
| 04:35.08 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Even I may be able to help |
| 04:35.12 | findlay | to practicate in the universe? |
| 04:35.19 | |BF2142|Spark420 | My family has alot of MDs |
| 04:35.49 | mheath | Nah, that won't work. |
| 04:36.53 | findlay | what if you want to practice outside of the universe? |
| 04:37.47 | |BF2142|Spark420 | mheath |
| 04:37.49 | |BF2142|Spark420 | What's the question |
| 04:38.01 | |BF2142|Spark420 | There's no harm in just asking it. |
| 04:38.25 | mheath | I'm considering getting a second opinion on my medical condition from a doctor. |
| 04:38.37 | findlay | mheath: you're going to the right place |
| 04:38.49 | findlay | UU hospital complex is very noteworthy |
| 04:39.02 | mheath | findlay: probably not going there. =) |
| 04:39.06 | mheath | But, anyway |
| 04:39.16 | findlay | why not? |
| 04:39.22 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Stfu findlay |
| 04:39.25 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Trying to help somebody |
| 04:39.26 | |BF2142|Spark420 | save society |
| 04:39.34 | mheath | The ortho doctor diagnosed me with general ligiment laxativity, and slightly flat feet |
| 04:39.39 | findlay | ~flame |BF2142|Spark420 |
| 04:39.40 | ibot | |BF2142|Spark420 sux0rz d00d!!!!!!!!!!!!!!@@!!!!!!!11 |
| 04:39.46 | findlay | heh |
| 04:39.48 | mheath | Said that these conditions would likely disqualify me from going back into the military |
| 04:40.30 | findlay | mheath: if you're privy to the UU hospital, why not amend yourself of the resource? |
| 04:40.50 | mheath | I'm wondering...if I go to a doctor and inform him that, while I have loose joints, I live a very active, normal lifestyle with no problems, and the only manifistation of any joint problems resulted when being pushed roughly while on a stairway. |
| 04:41.06 | mheath | Is there any chance he would provide an opinion different than the ortho doctor? |
| 04:41.26 | bonez41 | mheath, I am still here |
| 04:41.29 | mheath | I need a statement saying that I am cleared for complete and unrestricted activity |
| 04:41.36 | mheath | bonez41: read the stuff I just typed, tell me what you think |
| 04:41.37 | bonez41 | was just working on my palm.... trying to get my usb port set up.. |
| 04:41.49 | |BF2142|Spark420 | No doctor would do that. |
| 04:41.55 | bonez41 | reading |
| 04:41.55 | |BF2142|Spark420 | I mean |
| 04:41.57 | |BF2142|Spark420 | For the military |
| 04:42.14 | findlay | yeah, why are you putting a USB port on your hand? |
| 04:42.18 | bonez41 | ligament laxity and flat feet, eh? |
| 04:42.23 | mheath | Yes. |
| 04:42.43 | mheath | Supposedly caused me to have a knee injury while at MCRD, though I think the incident was highly provoked by other influences, like I say. |
| 04:42.45 | bonez41 | mheath, do you wear any type of orthotic in you shoe(s) |
| 04:43.07 | mheath | bonez41: I never have needed to. I didn't know I had flat feet at all, until the doctors down at MCRD said I did. |
| 04:45.02 | mheath | I know you can't give me a conclusive "Yes, the doctor would do that" answer, but do you think it's worth pursuing? |
| 04:45.05 | bonez41 | I would go back to them or call, or fax..and ask them to provide back up.....references as to how they diagnosed you with "flat feet"..... |
| 04:45.30 | mheath | bonez41: I have the medical records. Its correct, though _very_ slight. |
| 04:45.48 | mheath | The ortho doctor here agreed, though he said its very slight |
| 04:45.49 | |BF2142|Spark420 | mheath: anybody in your family have a heart condition, diabetes? |
| 04:45.52 | mheath | "Bilateral Pes Planus" |
| 04:46.05 | |BF2142|Spark420 | OMFG i got that write. |
| 04:46.07 | |BF2142|Spark420 | the whore.... |
| 04:46.14 | |BF2142|Spark420 | anyway refer to previous question |
| 04:46.39 | mheath | bonez41: related to my joint issues, though..... |
| 04:46.50 | Tene | mheath: would you be likely to encounter strains similar to being pushed on the stairs while in active combat? |
| 04:47.22 | bonez41 | mheath, I'd suggest a couple options.....get a second opinion...check with your chiropractor and have him/her evaluate your feet......and get some orthotics......to help restore your arch...... |
| 04:47.50 | mheath | bonez41: do you think it at all possible that a doctor might consider clearing me for "full and unrestricted activity", though, given the situtation? |
| 04:47.50 | |BF2142|Spark420 | bonez you did your premed and you dont get any patient history? |
| 04:48.10 | mheath | |BF2142|Spark420: He's not providing a conducive medical diagnosis. |
| 04:48.15 | bonez41 | mheath, if you walk on dry cement, around a swimming pool..do you see one flat continuous foot print, or just heel and toes.....with little in between? |
| 04:48.21 | mheath | He's providing a few friendly suggestions during an IRC conversation. |
| 04:48.27 | bonez41 | mheath, it's possible....... |
| 04:48.30 | mheath | bonez41: flat continuous foot print. |
| 04:48.46 | mheath | Like I said, two different doctors agreed about the flat feet, but the one said it was very slight. |
| 04:48.59 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Well have you been tested for diabetes or heart disease? |
| 04:49.12 | bonez41 | if it's flat continuous..sounds like you do have flat feet.......still, it would help your feet and knees and hips, to have your feet adjusted and to wear orthotic supports..... |
| 04:49.18 | mheath | |BF2142|Spark420: No, I haven't. The closest relative that has heart issues is a great uncle. |
| 04:49.57 | bonez41 | |BF2142|Spark420, did my premed? yes.......the only patient history I have is what mheath is sharing here |
| 04:50.09 | mheath | bonez41: I know that ligiments and the like aren't your area of expertise, but do you think that ligiment laxativity necessary disqualifies me from full, unrestricted activity? |
| 04:50.51 | mheath | I want to get a second opinion. When I talked to the orthopedic doctor, it was MUCH more recent to my injury, when I was still experiencing symptoms to that |
| 04:51.03 | mheath | And I didn't explain that the injury was provoked while on a very uneven surface |
| 04:52.24 | bonez41 | mheath, what matters is how your feet perform...and then above...your ankles, knees, hips and lowe back... |
| 04:52.52 | bonez41 | if you could wear orthotics..which provide the necessary support, and you don't have pain in your feet or lower limbs..I fail to see how that would disqualify you |
| 04:53.07 | mheath | bonez41: I regularly do full workouts. Running, swimming, calisthenics, with no problems |
| 04:53.19 | |BF2142|Spark420 | mheath ligament laxity? i think you mean, would definitely exclude you from services especially when coupled with the flat feet which has long been a famous disqualifier from military service due to the incredible amount of time you have to spend marching, drilling and running in the field of battle and in boot camp. Not only affects your reliablity in battle but your overall health in the future flat feet can cause some serious long-term medical pr |
| 04:53.20 | bonez41 | well, tell the 2nd opinion doc all this too..... |
| 04:53.21 | mheath | I am on my feet almost constantly, with no pain or problems |
| 04:53.37 | levi_home | My dad was in the Army and had to wear orthotics. One of his legs is slightly longer than the other, as well. |
| 04:53.54 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Also, how tall are you mheath? |
| 04:53.57 | bonez41 | levi, there ya go..... |
| 04:54.15 | mheath | |BF2142|Spark420: It is waiverable though. And given the fact that I have done a good deal of marching, and I'm frequently on my feet. |
| 04:54.46 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Yeah for slight problems you can wear insoles in the boots but when you couple it with the ligamentous laxity it can lead to some serious joint problems in the future |
| 04:54.51 | mheath | |BF2142|Spark420: What your telling me is bullcrap, too. I know for a fact that flat feet is not disqualifying, and I know that being issued custom orthos is a common practice. |
| 04:54.58 | bonez41 | J Manipulative Physiol Ther. 1983 Dec;6(4):185-8. Related Articles, Links Pes planus: a review of etiology, diagnosis and chiropractic management. Lawrence DJ. A review of current concepts of etiology, diagnosis and chiropractic treatment of pes planus was conducted in consideration that this condition is one of the most prevalent disorders affecting the foot. According to general understanding, pes planus may be due to either c |
| 04:54.59 | bonez41 | ongenital or acquired causes, which are prone to progressive development of foot malfunction and pain unless properly managed. It is concluded that conservative chiropractic treatment of pes planus is the initial therapy of choice. PMID: 6668456 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] |
| 04:55.11 | bonez41 | there is some reading about it from a peer reviewed journal article |
| 04:56.05 | mheath | The orthopedic doctor here did say it was VERY minor. |
| 04:56.07 | mheath | "Slight". |
| 04:56.40 | bonez41 | well, then give orthotics a try....are you in utah mheath , or where? |
| 04:56.58 | bonez41 | there's a company here in Draper, that makes custom orthotics.....very high quality materials... |
| 04:57.16 | mheath | Utah. |
| 04:57.53 | bonez41 | well, if you want I can connect you wtih this company ... if you want to get a great orthotic |
| 04:57.54 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Ew Utah/ |
| 04:58.16 | bonez41 | we like it here |BF2142|Spark420 ... you should come here to ski..and check it out...it's nice here |
| 04:58.24 | mheath | bonez41: All I'm saying is, I've had ONE issue with that knee, which the orthopedic doctor here things was just a bad dislocating of the knee cap with some associated symptoms. |
| 04:58.46 | mheath | Other than that, I live a very phsyical and active life. I am on my feet constantly, with no issues, and I've never had any knee pain or related symptoms before |
| 04:58.52 | levi_home | |BF2142|Spark420: What brought you to #utah if you don't like Utah? |
| 04:59.06 | mheath | (Other than a literal slip at work a few years ago that healed in a few days) |
| 04:59.31 | mheath | Down at MEPS, they conduct some generic flexibility tests. |
| 04:59.38 | mheath | bend over this way, walk this way, etfc |
| 04:59.40 | |BF2142|Spark420 | I love Utah. |
| 04:59.43 | mheath | I passed all those with no problems. |
| 04:59.49 | bonez41 | mheath, in that case, do all you can to convince the 2nd opinion doc to clear you |
| 04:59.49 | |BF2142|Spark420 | What made yu think I don't like Utah? |
| 05:00.18 | levi_home | |BF2142|Spark420: You said 'Ew Utah/' |
| 05:00.18 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Hipocritus would weep.... |
| 05:00.34 | bonez41 | |BF2142|Spark420, you said "Ew Utah/" as in EEEwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww, like it stinks or something.... |
| 05:00.48 | mheath | Besides, if I go back into the military it will probably be into the Navy |
| 05:00.49 | bonez41 | Hippocrates? |
| 05:01.04 | bonez41 | naval inspector, eh? that'd be fun |
| 05:01.07 | mheath | And I know my body can handle Navy life, for sure. From experience. |
| 05:01.42 | mheath | bonez41: should I see an orthopedic doctor, or would a general practitioner be OK? |
| 05:02.52 | rsimpkins | man - our web site is so cool. |
| 05:03.02 | rsimpkins | I swear we have one of the best LUG sites in the US. |
| 05:03.05 | bonez41 | mheath, well, I am biased....if you see a Chiropractor....have your Chiropractor, check and ADJUST your feet.....first..... |
| 05:03.24 | bonez41 | rsimpkins, what's the link to the site? do you mean plug.org? |
| 05:03.29 | rsimpkins | bonez41: Yeah. |
| 05:03.41 | rsimpkins | bonez41: I am browsing other LUG sites for ideas - some of them are HORRIBLE> |
| 05:03.52 | mheath | bonez41: But, no offense, I need to see a full MD, which a chiropractor is NOT (unless I'm mistaken?) |
| 05:04.11 | mheath | Because the end result of my visit will hopefully be a signed letter from said doctor saying that I am OK for full and unrestricted activity. |
| 05:04.20 | mheath | And the military will want said letter to be from a full MD |
| 05:04.26 | bonez41 | mheath, well, depends on where the military is with their effort to include chiropractic....ask them if you can receive Chiro care..... |
| 05:04.53 | mheath | bonez41: chiropractors are bone alignment, are they not? |
| 05:04.54 | rsimpkins | I'm pretty sure that the Marines are gonna want a letter from an MD. |
| 05:05.01 | bonez41 | there are several pilot projects underway....at AF bases around the US....and then the military will expand chiro inclusion.......to all branches and units...of the service |
| 05:05.16 | rsimpkins | mheath: Chiros can help in some cases, but they do not equal an MD. |
| 05:05.23 | bonez41 | bone alignment....plenty of bones in the feet.....I have my feet adjsuted and I adjust those of my patients frequently too |
| 05:05.45 | rsimpkins | bonez41: You are a Chiropractor? |
| 05:05.45 | mheath | bonez41: Virtually all of my diagnosed problems are ligiment problems |
| 05:06.01 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 05:06.03 | levi_home | bonez41: You're assuming mheath is broken and in need of fixing. He is assuming that he is not broken and needs a letter confirming the fact. |
| 05:06.06 | bonez41 | rsimpkins, thank heavens .... we don't get to kill anyone with the wrong drugs......or with those 90,000 deaths a year from prescription mistakes.... |
| 05:06.32 | bonez41 | levi_home, clearly he needs to get the documentation from whomever the military buys..to clear him...... |
| 05:06.43 | bonez41 | rsimpkins, aye, I am |
| 05:06.53 | levi_home | bonez41: Yes, and that would be a MD. |
| 05:07.16 | Tene | MDs have their place and chiropractors have their place, etc. |
| 05:07.41 | bonez41 | levi_home, I am assuming 1) that his feet , his arches are dysfunctional and thus may benefit from evaluation by someone who workswith such joints and ligaments and their proper function, and 2) that he needs clearance..... |
| 05:07.58 | Tene | You really don't need anyone trained much at all to do the majority of minor medical tasks. |
| 05:08.07 | rsimpkins | bonez41: What practice style due you follow? |
| 05:08.16 | bonez41 | levi_home, yeah, for now....soon though, we will be included in the arsenal of health care options available to soldiers and sailors....and service people |
| 05:08.37 | bonez41 | rsimpkins, diversified......I am 2nd generation....father was and is my favorite Chiro |
| 05:09.05 | levi_home | bonez41: Asking mheath to think about putting anything ahead of getting back into the military is futile. :) |
| 05:09.07 | Sargun | bonez41, you do prescriptions, right? |
| 05:09.19 | levi_home | Sargun: You have not been paying attention. |
| 05:09.27 | Sargun | no |
| 05:09.33 | bonez41 | Sargun, no way...nothing controlled.... |
| 05:09.34 | Sargun | and I just /clear-ed |
| 05:09.51 | mheath | bonez41: Yes, but "Healthcare avaialable to soldiers, sailors and Marines" != "class of doctor necessary to sign off applicants for entry into the services" |
| 05:10.03 | bonez41 | I can recommend various OTC stuff...but I suggest looking at the root cause of trouble before masking symptoms.... |
| 05:10.15 | Sargun | Vicoden? |
| 05:10.26 | bonez41 | mheath, get your signatures from those who have the right credentials for now..... |
| 05:10.29 | Sargun | Like what do you do for people with muscle spasms, and stuff? |
| 05:10.44 | bonez41 | Sargun, Vicoden would out of my scope of practice.. |
| 05:10.46 | Tene | I guess we'll all know what class of doctors are able to sign you off Tomorrow! After you ask people who know! |
| 05:10.48 | mheath | bonez41: Do you have a medical encylopedia? |
| 05:10.57 | Sargun | bonez41, Like what do you do for people with muscle spasms, and stuff? |
| 05:10.59 | |BF2142|Spark420 | I do |
| 05:11.00 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Three. |
| 05:11.06 | Sargun | whoa. |
| 05:11.11 | rsimpkins | A lot of Chiropractors have quite a bit of medical training - depends on which school they go to. |
| 05:11.23 | bonez41 | muscle spasm......I provide massage....traction, stretching, trigger point release therapy...adjusting to short out the irritation which keeps the spasm going.... |
| 05:11.32 | Sargun | Is it 2 years of internship? |
| 05:11.35 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Wouldnt it be localized muscular sedatives and massage therapy |
| 05:11.38 | mheath | bonez41: Or rather, do you know anything about "Patellafemoral Pain Syndrome"? |
| 05:11.39 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Wootinz! |
| 05:11.50 | bonez41 | rsimpkins, it's 8 years....4 years for BS degree and then another 4 years for D.C. degree |
| 05:12.30 | bonez41 | mheath, kneecap pain syndrome..it's from improper tracking of the patella as it glides over the end of the femur and interacts with the tibia....though incorrectly |
| 05:12.51 | rsimpkins | bonez41: My Uncle and Cousin are both Chiropractors. No offense, but my Uncle died trying to treat himself of a serious disease because he thought Chiro was the solution. A simple shot might have saved his life. |
| 05:13.17 | mheath | bonez41: permanent, bad issue? |
| 05:13.41 | bonez41 | |BF2142|Spark420, anything you take into your system, when it's a synthesized chemical...has side effects....nothing wrong with short term use of analgesics or antispasm meds...... |
| 05:13.41 | Tene | Using the wrong tool for the wrong job is always bad. |
| 05:13.52 | mheath | Heres the official narrative of my medical care: |
| 05:13.54 | rsimpkins | Tene: Well said. |
| 05:13.59 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Massage has side affects too. |
| 05:14.02 | |BF2142|Spark420 | effects* |
| 05:14.08 | levi_home | All sorts of non-synthesized chemicals have side effects. |
| 05:14.10 | Sargun | rsimpkins, what disease? |
| 05:14.11 | rsimpkins | Tene: Like when I use my wrench as a hammer. ;) |
| 05:14.14 | levi_home | food has side-effects. |
| 05:14.22 | rsimpkins | Sargun: That's a bit to personal. Sorry. :) |
| 05:14.23 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Weed has side effects |
| 05:14.24 | Tene | There are people who screw themselves up with prescription meds when a small lifestyle change would have solved the problem. |
| 05:14.25 | |BF2142|Spark420 | It makes you feel kickass. |
| 05:14.25 | bonez41 | rsimpkins, well, there's a time and place for everything...sometimes one needs to get after a condition with a sledge hammer, while at other times a fly swatter will work....one needs to be open minded.... |
| 05:14.27 | |BF2142|Spark420 | and nto care |
| 05:14.32 | Sargun | It's ok. |
| 05:14.41 | bonez41 | rsimpkins, what killed your uncle? what condition? |
| 05:14.50 | Sargun | I wouldn't want to feel 'kickass' |
| 05:14.53 | |BF2142|Spark420 | For some people though, Tene, with certain personalities a life style change is much harder than meds. |
| 05:14.56 | rsimpkins | bonez41: It is something I don't want to say in a public place. |
| 05:15.00 | Sargun | I'd imagine 'kickass' would be quite painful. |
| 05:15.03 | Tene | |BF2142|Spark420: That's true. |
| 05:15.05 | |BF2142|Spark420 | For instance somebody who is an international businessman with a sleep disorder. |
| 05:15.31 | rsimpkins | I think where there is good science backing up Chiro - go for it. |
| 05:15.47 | Tene | I've known people who have had pain and headaches that painkillers stopped affecting at all and just kept getting worse. |
| 05:15.49 | Sargun | |BF2142|Spark420, then sleep? |
| 05:16.00 | Tene | Visiting a chiropractor cleared them up pretty well when medication couldn't. |
| 05:16.01 | Sargun | |BF2142|Spark420, Your mom be the one with sleep disorder? |
| 05:16.08 | bonez41 | I have a patient who was told to take lipitor...for life..he decided instead to change his diet....to exercise and reduce his stress..now his cholesterol is coming down..... |
| 05:16.09 | |BF2142|Spark420 | No my dad |
| 05:16.11 | |BF2142|Spark420 | he has apnea |
| 05:16.11 | Sargun | Tene, here that is true story. |
| 05:16.17 | |BF2142|Spark420 | severe sleep apnea |
| 05:16.23 | Sargun | |BF2142|Spark420, your dad is business person? |
| 05:16.28 | bonez41 | meds often are given when people simply won't change their destructive habits and life |
| 05:16.32 | |BF2142|Spark420 | he can stop breathing for several minutes in his sleepa nd he almost died |
| 05:16.35 | |BF2142|Spark420 | no you asshole |
| 05:16.37 | bonez41 | rsimpkins, ok ok.... |
| 05:16.37 | |BF2142|Spark420 | shutup sargun |
| 05:16.42 | |BF2142|Spark420 | it was a metaphorical situations. |
| 05:16.45 | mheath | Arrived MCRD on 14 Aug 2007. On 18 Aug SNR was assigned to Company D after passing IST: 0/72/12:10 = 134 (WAIVED). On 22 Aug SNR was assigned to MRP1 after being diagnosed with (L) Patella PFPS. On 30 Aug SNR was recommended for ELS [because of] (L) Knee Pain, Bilateral Patella Alta, Left Patellafemoral Pain Syndrom, Bilateral Pes Planus EPTE (disclosed). SNR's condition verified by review health records, consults, rehabilitation notes an |
| 05:16.45 | |BF2142|Spark420 | situation* |
| 05:16.47 | Sargun | oh |
| 05:16.49 | Sargun | that sucks. |
| 05:17.35 | bonez41 | metaphorical situation/ or perhaps an Hypothetical one? |
| 05:17.37 | |BF2142|Spark420 | You're a Sergeant? |
| 05:17.43 | |BF2142|Spark420 | whatever |
| 05:17.48 | |BF2142|Spark420 | i knew i made a mistake there |
| 05:17.52 | |BF2142|Spark420 | its 10 |
| 05:17.57 | |BF2142|Spark420 | and i just crashed off a high so |
| 05:17.59 | |BF2142|Spark420 | stfu |
| 05:18.17 | bonez41 | Aug 14, 2007/ wow...they got a time machine in the military? |
| 05:18.25 | mheath | bah, typo on my part :P |
| 05:18.40 | levi_home | Boy, aren't we all picking at one another tonight. |
| 05:18.46 | |BF2142|Spark420 | It's called the B1 spirit. |
| 05:18.48 | |BF2142|Spark420 | durr |
| 05:18.54 | |BF2142|Spark420 | IT GOES WOOOOSH OMFG 1964 |
| 05:18.57 | |BF2142|Spark420 | and then it bombs the hippies |
| 05:19.01 | |BF2142|Spark420 | and flies back to the 2000s |
| 05:19.15 | |BF2142|Spark420 | or is it b2 spirit? |
| 05:19.32 | Sargun | ? |
| 05:19.34 | bonez41 | huh? |
| 05:19.55 | bonez41 | levi_home, I just wondered about mheath's jaunt into next year....that's all |
| 05:20.30 | mheath | Meh, It was a big paragraph to type in. I was bound to make a typo or two :) |
| 05:20.50 | bonez41 | mheath, not to worry |
| 05:20.53 | |BF2142|Spark420 | http://es.geocities.com/scuadrafotos/B-2-6.jpg |
| 05:21.52 | Tene | perhaps you should join #randompicturesthatnobodycaresabout and post those links there, |BF2142|Spark420 |
| 05:22.26 | mheath | bonez41: Is the Patellafemoral Pain Syndrome likely to be cleared, considering that I've had no problems or knee pain since a very short time period after that diagnosis? |
| 05:22.37 | levi_home | You don't have to follow the links. |
| 05:23.01 | bonez41 | mheath, all depends on your patella....and how it is moving with your bones and ligaments beneath it..... |
| 05:23.19 | Tene | levi_home: and I could also just /ignore him or just all links from him if I wanted. |
| 05:24.24 | mheath | bonez41: I'm wondering if that was a misdiagnosis resulting from intense pain related to my kneecap dislocating =\ |
| 05:24.51 | mheath | They did all this weird therapy. Ice, hooked this electode thingy onto the knee (casued muscles to jerk and what not), none of that helped...then suddenly the pain went away, after a bit |
| 05:25.06 | mheath | Conveniently very shortly after they started the irreversable bureacratic decision to send me home |
| 05:25.16 | Sargun | :-/ |
| 05:25.42 | Sargun | This is the genetic disease, which could cause you to die at any point? |
| 05:25.50 | mheath | Sargun: no, I don't have that :P |
| 05:26.08 | Sargun | oh |
| 05:26.09 | Sargun | thats good |
| 05:26.43 | mheath | OK, time for bed. I have work in the morning, after which I'm going to go and talk to the USN recruiter, I think |
| 05:26.52 | thesuperbigfrog | mheath: I would definitely look into getting into the Navy or another service. I have flat feet and I've been in the Army for years without significant problems. |
| 05:27.17 | mheath | thesuperbigfrog: flat feet is NOT the big problem, at all. |
| 05:27.22 | mheath | And its very minor |
| 05:27.35 | mheath | The big issue is some ligiment / joint problems which I have |
| 05:28.09 | mheath | Which usually NEVER cause any problems for me, but caused one problem that lasted just the right length of time to get me kicked out |
| 05:28.20 | Sargun | What are the physical fitness requirements of the USAF compared to USMC? |
| 05:28.31 | mheath | Sargun: identical. Its a stupid policy, but there it is. |
| 05:28.54 | mheath | The physical requirements are virtually identical wheather I'm infantry in the USMC (which is what I was going to do) or a deskjob in the USAF. |
| 05:28.59 | Sargun | How many people suffer from this knee problem? |
| 05:29.20 | thesuperbigfrog | Still, if you are determined to get in, there are waivers that might help you out. |
| 05:29.23 | mheath | It's not really a knee problem. Just loose joints, which can cause knee problems. |
| 05:29.33 | mheath | thesuperbigfrog: Yeah, we'll see... |
| 05:29.51 | mheath | Heh, if I go back into the USMC, it requires clearance from the level of the Commandant to get me back in, apparently. |
| 05:30.04 | mheath | Thats just because I didn't make it through basic |
| 05:30.16 | Sargun | And electricity with the right voltage, current, and frequency makes it fine though, right? |
| 05:30.28 | mheath | Sargun: WTF are you talking about? |
| 05:30.44 | Sargun | electrodes you were speaking about? |
| 05:30.44 | mheath | Pardon my acronystic language. |
| 05:30.55 | thesuperbigfrog | Good luck. We certainly do need good people in the military. It's refreshing to see someone as determined as yourself working to get in. |
| 05:31.00 | mheath | Sargun: that was a minor therapy treatment that I commented didn't do a thing for me. |
| 05:31.08 | Sargun | ah |
| 05:31.31 | mheath | thesuperbigfrog: Thank you. It was my lifelong dream (as anyone in here will tell you) and a huge, huge blow to me to get kicked out |
| 05:32.08 | thesuperbigfrog | Good night everyone! |
| 05:32.19 | Sargun | night |
| 05:32.40 | |BF2142|Spark420 | Die. |
| 05:32.46 | mheath | Good night, thesuperbigfrog :) |
| 05:32.50 | Sargun | Sleep well, the ninja knives don't hurt if your asleep! |
| 05:37.04 | levi_home | |BF2142|Spark420: You're grumpy when you're off your high. |
| 05:37.19 | Sargun | lol |
| 05:39.55 | |BF2142|Spark420 | yeah |
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| 06:09.47 | findlay | 6 pages left |
| 06:11.05 | findlay | although I must confess I skipped a lot of scrambled garbage in the intrest of my sanity |
| 06:15.29 | Sargun | lol |
| 07:07.01 | Tene | man, perl6 is insanely awesome |
| 07:07.32 | findlay | well, duh |
| 07:07.34 | findlay | (: |
| 07:07.37 | Sargun | lol |
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| 13:02.38 | graphyx | If I was looking for a copy of the PassThru virus to study offensivecomputing.com would be the place to go, right? |
| 13:03.23 | graphyx | oh, it's .net, not .com |
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| 13:33.22 | redbeard1 | yay! utah chocolate show registration is open! |
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| 14:19.25 | graphyx | Hey James |
| 14:19.31 | gwaihir | hey mike |
| 14:20.10 | *** part/#utah graphyx (n=graphyx@205.208.245.105) |
| 14:20.22 | *** join/#utah graphyx (n=graphyx@205.208.245.105) |
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| 14:22.04 | graphyx | Hey everyone, say Hi to gwaihir. He is a BYU grad student in AI. |
| 14:22.10 | graphyx | Good friend of mine, new to IRC. |
| 14:22.29 | mheath | boo, BYU |
| 14:22.30 | mheath | :P |
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| 14:23.25 | mheath | I didn't mean it! :P |
| 14:23.54 | graphyx | he is trying to get a non-registered handle. |
| 14:25.56 | ^Migs^ | good riddance |
| 14:27.54 | *** mode/#utah [+o goozbach] by ChanServ |
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| 14:28.03 | redbeard1 | hey gwaihir9 |
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| 14:28.17 | goozbach | howdy all |
| 14:28.24 | redbeard1 | hey goozbach |
| 14:28.25 | mheath | Morning, goozbach |
| 14:29.04 | mheath | Excited, but trying to not get my hopes up. It will probably just get shot down by the doctor |
| 14:29.37 | graphyx | much better getting shot down by the doctor than the enemy... |
| 14:29.40 | goozbach | greetings from astricon |
| 14:30.05 | mheath | graphyx: not in my eye :) |
| 14:31.03 | graphyx | If you insist on being shot down... the doctor's the way to go. |
| 14:31.20 | graphyx | Remember that true patriotism isn't dying for ones own country. It's make sure the other guy dies for his. |
| 14:31.39 | mheath | lmao |
| 14:31.43 | levi | redbeard1: Mmmm, chocolate. |
| 14:31.43 | gwaihir9 | $ svn commit |
| 14:31.44 | gwaihir9 | svn: Commit failed (details follow): |
| 14:31.44 | gwaihir9 | svn: Commit item '/home/jlc/svn/bcmac/testSets/3dEgg_500/threeDimEgg.pyc' has copy flag but no copyfrom URL |
| 14:31.54 | gwaihir9 | anyone know what this means and how to fix it. |
| 14:32.14 | mheath | I need some closure to this whole thing. Need to at least make absolutely sure all the doctors agree I can't go back in. |
| 14:32.44 | graphyx | mheath: fair enough. |
| 14:32.50 | levi | That could take a while. There are a lot of doctors out there... :) |
| 14:33.04 | graphyx | levi: lol |
| 14:33.35 | levi | gwaihir9: Is that trying to commit a change to a fresh checkout, or have commits worked in the past? |
| 14:33.59 | levi | I'm not a svn guru by any means, but I can guess at stuff to look at. |
| 14:33.59 | gwaihir9 | they have worked in the past, but after my last batch of changes they don't work |
| 14:34.27 | gwaihir9 | I changed the file in question by changing it somewhere else, and copying it into that location. |
| 14:34.38 | levi | Ahh, hmm. |
| 14:34.38 | gwaihir9 | then I hit commit, I am sure that copy had something to do with it. |
| 14:34.45 | gwaihir9 | but don't know how to fix it. |
| 14:35.02 | graphyx | can you diff the file, delete it, recheck it out. |
| 14:35.06 | graphyx | Apply the changes and then commit? |
| 14:35.23 | gwaihir9 | just a sec |
| 14:36.07 | gwaihir9 | copying it, deleting it, moving the copy back, and svn adding it worked... go figure. there has to be a better way though.... |
| 14:36.32 | graphyx | well the problem was fixed... |
| 14:36.44 | graphyx | but not a true understanding of why it didn't work... |
| 14:36.49 | levi | I don't recall exactly how svn works in that situation, but it might make your revision history for that file a bit odd. |
| 14:36.57 | graphyx | I wonder in the SVN has to know that the file was checked out first before it will commit it. |
| 14:37.12 | mheath | gwaihir9: graphyx said you majored in AI? |
| 14:37.16 | mheath | well, are studying AI |
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| 14:37.56 | gwaihir9 | yes |
| 14:38.16 | gwaihir9 | am doing ai research at BYU |
| 14:38.24 | mheath | Cool. I find AI really interesting. I'm just barely starting on my CS undergraduate though. :( |
| 14:38.54 | gwaihir9 | where |
| 14:38.55 | levi | gwaihir9: What sort of AI areas are you interested in? |
| 14:39.06 | mheath | gwaihir9: University of Utah |
| 14:39.21 | gwaihir9 | right now doing Bayesian approaches to classification, regression, and optimization. |
| 14:39.34 | mheath | gwaihir9: I heard lots of opinions suggesting that they have the best CS program in the state. |
| 14:39.47 | gwaihir9 | byu? |
| 14:39.52 | mheath | UoU. |
| 14:39.54 | gwaihir9 | oh |
| 14:40.09 | gwaihir9 | not sure. I have heard good things about U's program |
| 14:40.26 | mheath | I'm excited to start there. |
| 14:40.30 | mheath | Highschool CS was a waste of time for me. |
| 14:40.53 | mheath | VB and Java programming |
| 14:40.55 | mheath | Heh. |
| 14:41.03 | gwaihir9 | heh... I ended up teaching the HS class, cuz the teacher quit mid term... and no one else there knew pascal (back then it was pascal) |
| 14:41.28 | graphyx | I didn't know that. |
| 14:41.31 | graphyx | That's amuzing. |
| 14:41.31 | gwaihir9 | so I get the waste of time thing.... |
| 14:41.33 | graphyx | Did they pay you? |
| 14:41.53 | graphyx | I hope your current students aren't in for a waste of time.. |
| 14:41.54 | gwaihir9 | nope... I was the teacher's ta... they replaced the teacher with a new one, and she tried to keep up, and I lectured. |
| 14:42.02 | graphyx | ouch. |
| 14:42.09 | gwaihir9 | :-) |
| 14:42.12 | graphyx | So you did the work while someone else coasted on it. |
| 14:42.23 | graphyx | Well I suppose you got an "A" or whatever.. |
| 14:42.24 | gwaihir9 | she worked hard, was a good lady. |
| 14:42.43 | gwaihir9 | she just didn't know programming, but she actually learned fast, she was great by the next semester... |
| 14:43.03 | gwaihir9 | I was the TA, I had taken the class the semester before. |
| 14:43.03 | mheath | I took an AP java class when I was in higschool |
| 14:43.19 | mheath | Actually, they have two variants of the AP test in Java, and I took the more advanced. |
| 14:43.21 | gwaihir9 | ya, that's the one... only it used to be Pascal... then it moved to Java |
| 14:43.33 | gwaihir9 | that is new since I did it |
| 14:43.34 | mheath | Same as the standard, just went more into lists, trees, sorting, etc. |
| 14:43.37 | gwaihir9 | they only had one level back then. |
| 14:43.49 | mheath | gwaihir9: It went through C and C++, IIRC |
| 14:43.51 | gwaihir9 | at least that's what I remember, it was a while ago |
| 14:43.57 | graphyx | heck you guys might have gone to the same school. |
| 14:44.09 | gwaihir9 | WX |
| 14:44.12 | gwaihir9 | Woods Cross |
| 14:44.24 | mheath | Doubt it. My school didn't have a CS program back in Pascal days :) |
| 14:44.25 | gwaihir9 | WAY back in the day. |
| 14:44.49 | mheath | I take that back. I think they had a basic word processing / typing class. |
| 14:45.05 | levi | BYU's first programming class was in Pascal when I started there. |
| 14:45.22 | gwaihir9 | thanks for your help... wish I understood why it wasn't working, but at least I can move on now... thanks! |
| 14:45.33 | mheath | Hey, I have a question. Is there any Fortran compilers that link Fortran into a modern API? |
| 14:45.50 | mheath | So you can use the language to create full featured, modern programs, fully compatible with modern systems |
| 14:45.56 | levi | mheath: There are lots of them. |
| 14:46.19 | levi | mheath: Fortran is still widely used in scientific computing, because it's faster than C for numeric stuff. |
| 14:46.30 | mheath | My dad said something that made him sound nostalgic for Fortran. He used to be an amazing Fortran programmer, ages ago.... |
| 14:46.47 | mheath | I think I'd like to setup a modern fortran compiler for him, sometime |
| 14:47.08 | levi | Guy Steele is working on a language called Fortress which is supposed to be what Java is to C++, roughly. |
| 14:47.40 | levi | mheath: There is GNU Fortran |
| 14:48.38 | levi | There are also some high-performance commercial Fortran compilers, Fortran MPI libraries, etc. |
| 14:49.21 | levi | Some number of people who buy our clusters buy Fortran compilers and such with them. |
| 14:50.17 | mheath | OK, time to get ready and then leave for work. Have a great day, everyone! |
| 14:50.29 | levi | In fact, there is GNU Fortran 77 and GNU Fortran 95. |
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| 15:33.58 | findlay | fortran in the gcc-4.0 series is called gfortran and is based on the fortran 95 standard |
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| 15:50.12 | graphyx | wow... pampered indeed.... |
| 15:50.13 | graphyx | http://www.pamperedchef.com/our_products/catalog/product.jsp?productId=8753&categoryCode=BK |
| 15:51.25 | levi | Grr, stupid people using speakerphone in their cubes. |
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| 16:00.01 | elg | -lart emcnabb |
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| 16:07.02 | herlo | hola jsmith... |
| 16:10.07 | jsmith | Que pasa? |
| 16:10.57 | herlo | nada |
| 16:11.46 | herlo | yo soy muy duermo (or I am very sleepy) |
| 16:17.13 | amcnabb | gwaihir9, what's your real name? |
| 16:17.18 | jsmith | Estoy cansado tambien |
| 16:20.42 | herlo | jsmith: no intiendo |
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| 16:34.28 | Newsome | whatta ya mean "no nintendo?" |
| 16:35.06 | emcnabb | jsmith: podemos hablar de herlo y Newsome, y nunca sabran |
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| 16:41.23 | emcnabb | Newsome: so how's it going? |
| 16:48.31 | elg | -lart emcnabb |
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| 17:05.40 | Newsome | emcnabb: not bad |
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| 17:12.16 | findlay | Newsome: did you read the GL reports on the hearing? |
| 17:15.11 | emcnabb | does anyone here use Gaim 2.0? If so, how in the heck do you show timestamps next to each message? I'm not seeing it anywhere |
| 17:15.37 | emcnabb | I see a timestamp customization plugin, but when I enable it I don't get anything either |
| 17:21.02 | emcnabb | I'll go ask on #gaim |
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| 17:23.07 | xbmodder | Hiya. |
| 17:23.11 | xbmodder | AllyaAll. |
| 17:23.16 | xbmodder | emcnabb: you still there? |
| 17:23.20 | emcnabb | yes |
| 17:23.55 | xbmodder | emcnabb: hint: Go to window where your talking to person, hit options, and click "SHOW TIMESTAMPS" |
| 17:24.09 | emcnabb | ah |
| 17:24.16 | xbmodder | (F2 also works) |
| 17:24.17 | emcnabb | it used to be in the preferences |
| 17:24.22 | xbmodder | I know |
| 17:24.28 | xbmodder | It bothered the crap out of me earlier |
| 17:24.33 | emcnabb | xbmodder: thanks |
| 17:24.38 | xbmodder | No problem |
| 17:25.32 | levi | What's this? xbmodder and emcnabb getting along? |
| 17:25.38 | findlay | heh |
| 17:25.56 | emcnabb | levi: we get along ok, it's just me and mheath |
| 17:26.12 | Newsome | findlay: I read them. I don' think anything happened that was unexpected |
| 17:26.21 | levi | Ahh. Well, it would have been truly mind-blowing to see you and mheath get along. |
| 17:27.22 | findlay | I was there. Unfortunately the notes I took were awful |
| 17:27.54 | emcnabb | levi: I'll get along with mheath the day one of us stop joining #utah :-) |
| 17:28.11 | Newsome | I've found that it's very difficult to take good notes |
| 17:29.01 | findlay | I was keeping up just fine, but I made a lot of abbreviations that didn't make any sense later |
| 17:29.30 | findlay | I ended up grepping a lot through /usr/share/dict/words with "^abbr" |
| 17:30.07 | findlay | sometimes that helped |
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| 18:04.10 | maquis | ~lart tensai |
| 18:04.29 | maquis | ~onjoin tensai -lart tensai |
| 18:04.29 | ibot | ok, maquis |
| 18:07.24 | findlay | ~lart maquis |
| 18:26.00 | redbeard1 | http://minibytes.mondominishows.com/poo/affiliates/play.asp?Affil=iwon&W |
| 18:26.16 | redbeard1 | (from the wife, but i thought ya'll would enjoy it) |
| 18:27.26 | maquis | hmmm... here is one of those rare situations where i kinda wish this wasn't a boolean |
| 18:27.43 | maquis | because for testing purposes, i'd kinda like it to have a value besides true or false |
| 18:28.33 | maquis | something along the lines of "false, unless you're in this one section of the code" would work great |
| 18:28.44 | mrpull_ | redbeard1: the curse word I uttered after seeing that couldn't have been more appropriate |
| 18:28.57 | redbeard1 | heh |
| 18:29.35 | findlay | maquis: that's what enums are for |
| 18:36.38 | graphyx | redbeard1: That's amusing. |
| 18:37.03 | graphyx | redbeard1: I am thinking that I want to start having my kids help cook dinner. |
| 18:37.20 | graphyx | They are 5 and 4 (and 2 and 11 months, but I wasn't planning on including them yet in the preparation phase) |
| 18:37.34 | redbeard1 | dude, that's awesome |
| 18:37.37 | graphyx | Got any recipes that would be appropriate? |
| 18:37.54 | graphyx | I was thinking of making a weekly kids cook dinner night. |
| 18:38.04 | redbeard1 | i could recommend a couple of episodes of good eats that are targeted at kids |
| 18:38.12 | levi | Mmm, flaming bags of poo. With candy corn. |
| 18:38.15 | graphyx | That a tv show? |
| 18:38.19 | redbeard1 | yeah |
| 18:38.45 | graphyx | Not familiar with it. Any chance to just get the recipe? |
| 18:39.56 | redbeard1 | http://goodeatsfanpage.com/Season8/EA1H11.htm |
| 18:39.57 | redbeard1 | http://goodeatsfanpage.com/Season8/EA1H12.htm |
| 18:40.09 | redbeard1 | recipes are there, along with the transcript |
| 18:45.16 | graphyx | cool. Thanks redbeard1 |
| 18:45.26 | redbeard1 | np |
| 18:51.30 | levi | Hmm, Ruby 2.0 isn't going to support continuations or green threads?! |
| 19:04.36 | ^Migs^ | http://www.tamponcrafts.com/ |
| 19:05.09 | maquis | ^Migs^: i don't want to know |
| 19:05.48 | ^Migs^ | it's SFW, don't worry |
| 19:05.49 | maquis | i'm just going to assume that that's not what the link sounds like |
| 19:06.05 | ^Migs^ | no, it's exactly what the link sounds like |
| 19:06.44 | ^Migs^ | unfortunately :) |
| 19:08.37 | Robdor | levi: I thought that Ruby's threading system was essentially green threading. What's the difference between the two? |
| 19:09.28 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 19:10.44 | levi | Robdor: Currently, it is. But 2.0 will apparently be totally different. |
| 19:11.07 | Robdor | Are they planning on using native threads? |
| 19:11.13 | levi | Yes. |
| 19:12.07 | Robdor | I wonder why the don't let the two coexist. |
| 19:12.17 | harleypig | Call 1-900-PSYCHOS To Talk To Hot Local Psychos NOW! |
| 19:12.43 | graphyx | or you could just call harleypig |
| 19:12.51 | graphyx | After a long day of work, he is really hot... |
| 19:13.26 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (n=von@71.35.254.49) |
| 19:15.09 | levi | elg: Seen this? http://headius.blogspot.com/2006/10/another-year-another-interpreter.html |
| 19:15.16 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (i=linuxali@gateway/tor/x-ab03dd9978915892) |
| 19:19.07 | maquis | ~seen Newsome |
| 19:19.23 | ibot | newsome is currently on #utah (4h 41m 48s). Has said a total of 4 messages. Is idling for 1h 51m 12s, last said: 'I've found that it's very difficult to take good notes'. |
| 19:19.24 | levi | Robdor: Probably because it's a lot harder. |
| 19:19.27 | levi | Robdor: It certainly can be done, though. |
| 19:24.54 | levi | Ideally, you'd want to have one OS per local processor and have as many userspace threads as necessary for your particular program. |
| 19:30.45 | Robdor | I guess the biggest reason for using green threading is to have threads on archs that don't natively support it. |
| 19:31.29 | Robdor | It doesn't seem to me that Ruby has much of a hold on the embedded market, so they don't really have a big reason for sticking with the green. |
| 19:32.45 | *** join/#utah elg_ (n=fugalh@hfugal.nmsu.edu) |
| 19:33.06 | *** join/#utah calvarez (i=calvarez@lawn-128-61-118-225.lawn.gatech.edu) |
| 19:33.13 | calvarez | hello |
| 19:34.04 | calvarez | -help |
| 19:34.04 | brac | help topics: core, auth, keywords [46 plugins: 8ball, autoop, autorejoin, bash, cal, chucknorris, deepthought, demauro, dice, digg, dns, excuse, forecast, fortune, freshmeat, grouphug|confess, host, imdb, insult, iplookup|userip, karmastats|karma, lart, lastfm, markov|chat, math, movieplot|movietitle, nickserv, opme, qauth, quotes, realm, remind, roshambo|rps, rot13, roulette, search|google, seen, slashdot, spell, |
| 19:34.04 | brac | threat, topic, translate, tube, urls, weather, wserver] (help <topic> for more info) |
| 19:34.36 | calvarez | -help core |
| 19:34.37 | brac | Core help topics: quit, restart, config, join, part, hide, save, rescan, nick, say, action, topic, quiet, talk, version, botsnack, hello |
| 19:34.54 | calvarez | -help say |
| 19:34.54 | brac | no help for topic say |
| 19:34.59 | calvarez | -help core say |
| 19:34.59 | brac | say <channel>|<nick> <message> => say <message> to <channel> or in private message to <nick> |
| 19:35.20 | calvarez | -help keywords |
| 19:35.20 | brac | Keyword module (Fact learning and regurgitation) topics: overview, set, plurals, override, also, random, get, tell, forget, keywords, keywords search, <reply>, <action>, <who>, <topic> |
| 19:35.29 | calvarez | -help keywords set |
| 19:35.30 | brac | set => <keyword> is <definition> |
| 19:36.00 | graphyx | calvarez: you can /msg brac and take this to a private channel... |
| 19:36.10 | levi | Robdor: Another reason is that green threads scale MUCH better than OS threads. |
| 19:36.52 | calvarez | graphyx, it won't answer to /msg |
| 19:36.58 | graphyx | hmm... |
| 19:37.09 | graphyx | is brac not registered? |
| 19:37.13 | calvarez | i dunno |
| 19:37.17 | graphyx | Try allowing non registered people to chat to you. |
| 19:37.19 | graphyx | And try it again. |
| 19:37.26 | calvarez | how do you do that? |
| 19:37.38 | graphyx | umm... ask nickserv or chanserv? |
| 19:37.42 | calvarez | k |
| 19:38.35 | mrpull | http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg |
| 19:39.31 | mrpull | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:39.36 | calvarez | yea |
| 19:39.42 | calvarez | I just did |
| 19:39.44 | graphyx | yeah brac answered with unfiltered turned on. |
| 19:40.14 | Robdor | levi: What is the reasoning behind the threading change? |
| 19:41.56 | levi | Robdor: I don't know for sure, but green threads alone do not take advantage of multiple processors. And green threads + OS threads = hard. |
| 19:42.29 | calvarez | brac, you suck |
| 19:45.30 | levi | I haven't looked at Ruby enough to see how ill-advised massively concurrent Ruby programs would be, anyway. |
| 19:48.03 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@hfugal.nmsu.edu) |
| 19:48.07 | levi | With the current state of Ruby, native threads are probably a reasonable fit anyway. I'm just annoyed at removing continuations. |
| 19:48.21 | Tene | perl6! |
| 19:48.55 | levi | Yes, perl6 is nifty in a lot of ways. |
| 19:50.11 | levi | Though it doesn't have first-class continuations, either. |
| 19:51.21 | Tene | what differentiates perl6 continuations from first-class continuations? |
| 19:51.54 | levi | Does perl6 have an operation like 'call-with-current-continuation'? |
| 19:52.10 | Tene | What does that operation mean? |
| 19:52.15 | levi | A quick google search mentioned something about having to go down to Parrot or whatever to get a continuation. |
| 19:52.33 | levi | But that may have been out of date, considering perl6 is a moving target. |
| 19:53.01 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@208.64.90.18.utahbroadband.com) |
| 19:53.27 | levi | call-with-current-continuation takes a procedure of one argument. It reifies the current continuation and invokes the procedure, passing the continuation as an argument. |
| 19:54.54 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@hfugal.nmsu.edu) |
| 19:57.18 | Tene | I think that I mostly understand that, but I don't really understand what that would be used for. |
| 19:57.29 | levi | It's a generic control flow primitive. |
| 19:58.52 | levi | Invoking the continuation (which is represented as a procedure of one argument) causes execution to return from the point at which call-with-current-continuation was called, with the value passed to the continuation as the return value. |
| 20:01.19 | levi | Given a language that implements first-class continuations and some sort of macro facility, you can implement any sort of control flow mechanism you can imagine. Exceptions, coroutines, green threads, backtracking, etc. |
| 20:02.04 | levi | It's potentially dangerous and messy, but it's just the sort of thing that perl /ought/ to let you do. |
| 20:02.23 | Tene | reading some mailing list stuff, it looks like it's possible to do, actually. |
| 20:02.50 | levi | Is there a mechanism to do it defined in any documentation anywhere? |
| 20:03.20 | Jayce^ | levi, I know it wasn't working before, but that was a target.. but last I had time to keep up with that was a while ago, I dont' know what the current status is |
| 20:03.35 | *** part/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@adsl-68-22-220-206.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) |
| 20:04.11 | goozbach | ouch mine brain |
| 20:04.45 | Tene | sub foo {return -> { return 'foo' }} |
| 20:05.54 | goozbach | there it goes agaon |
| 20:05.59 | levi | That's a function that returns a function that returns 'foo', is it not? |
| 20:06.28 | maquis | goozbach: what happened to your brain? |
| 20:06.29 | maquis | :) |
| 20:06.36 | Tene | Yeah. |
| 20:06.44 | goozbach | ^^ |
| 20:06.48 | levi | That's a higher-order function, not a continuation. |
| 20:06.54 | maquis | ah |
| 20:07.02 | maquis | i'm reading sporadically |
| 20:07.08 | Tene | I don't have perl6 running here at work, so I'm trying to find the web-based perl6 interpreter. |
| 20:07.15 | Tene | That I was using the other day. |
| 20:07.50 | goozbach | where? |
| 20:08.00 | Tene | That's what I'm trying to find out. ;) |
| 20:08.11 | goozbach | but where?! |
| 20:09.08 | goozbach | so jsmith started throwing stuff at me. |
| 20:09.22 | goozbach | i wanted to throw stuff at him |
| 20:09.57 | levi | Hmm, the perl6 draft concurrency standard has STM in it. |
| 20:10.04 | Tene | STM? |
| 20:10.11 | levi | Software Transactional Memory. |
| 20:10.46 | Jayce^ | Tene, http://run.pugscode.org/ |
| 20:10.48 | Jayce^ | that one? |
| 20:10.49 | levi | An alternative to guarding shared data with locks. |
| 20:10.59 | levi | With a vastly superior semantics. |
| 20:11.11 | Tene | Jayce^: thanks |
| 20:11.28 | levi | And often superior runtime characteristics. |
| 20:12.06 | maquis | hmmm... i get to learn about pug at a talk tomorrow... should be interesting |
| 20:12.09 | levi | It's bringing the database concept of a transaction to shared variables. |
| 20:12.12 | Jayce^ | levi, I saw some about that, but didn't really know what it was... heard somebody mentioning they think it'll combine really well with the register implementation |
| 20:12.26 | Jayce^ | somehow.... I didn't really get the joining.. |
| 20:12.42 | Jayce^ | one of those "nod and agree because they are smarter than you and your brain is hurting" discussions |
| 20:13.16 | levi | Jayce^: I don't really get the relation between STM and register machines either, unless it has something to do with atomic primitives or something. |
| 20:14.22 | *** join/#utah bzob (n=bzobrist@nat.myfamilyinc.com) |
| 20:14.35 | levi | I know you need some special instructions at the hardware level to implement it, but most current CPUs have them, and I don't recall details beyond that. |
| 20:14.59 | levi | If you're defining a virtual machine, that's a non-issue. You just create the primitive op you need. |
| 20:15.25 | goozbach | thowing schwag... rediculus |
| 20:15.33 | Jayce^ | levi, from what I gathered, it was the statement that it was a step in the same direction doing that memory management, as switching from stack to register based vm was.. |
| 20:15.36 | levi | Scheme48 does STM in its concurrency libraries, and it's based on a stack machine. |
| 20:15.48 | maquis | goozbach: i want some swag! |
| 20:16.13 | goozbach | i got a hat |
| 20:16.14 | maquis | t-shirts are fun |
| 20:16.14 | Jayce^ | levi the two are joined in that way, they are just boths leaps away from the norm, and they think they'll complement each other.. |
| 20:16.19 | maquis | hats are cool too |
| 20:16.22 | goozbach | and a shirt |
| 20:16.26 | maquis | nice |
| 20:16.36 | levi | Jayce^: Still doesn't seem obvious to me, but I'd be interested in hearing a defense of their relation to one another aside from being 'something different from the norm'. |
| 20:16.37 | goozbach | and some pants |
| 20:16.56 | goozbach | and some boxers |
| 20:17.28 | redbeard1 | ping harleypig |
| 20:17.59 | goozbach | harleypig: jsmith threw stuff at me |
| 20:18.15 | goozbach | does that mean i dont get kudos? |
| 20:19.26 | harleypig | poing |
| 20:19.32 | Jayce^ | levi, it was at a discussion at oscon, and I was already over my brain limit for the day... so I know I can't do it any justice |
| 20:19.39 | levi | Jayce^: Oh well. |
| 20:20.51 | levi | Jayce^: Seems kind of odd that Parrot has anything to do with it, since it exists on Pugs thanks to Haskell's native support for it. |
| 20:21.14 | goozbach | parrot done yet? |
| 20:21.16 | goozbach | :) |
| 20:21.48 | levi | I doubt parrot will ever be 'done'. |
| 20:22.08 | Jayce^ | goozbach, you could come to plug this month and learn more about it |
| 20:22.27 | goozbach | Jayce^: what day is it? |
| 20:22.43 | goozbach | let me go get a ticket |
| 20:23.01 | goozbach | can i crash at your place? |
| 20:23.05 | goozbach | :) |
| 20:23.05 | Jayce^ | the 8th :) |
| 20:23.06 | Jayce^ | sure |
| 20:23.24 | goozbach | drat |
| 20:23.42 | goozbach | i'm not gonna be there till the 10th |
| 20:23.58 | redbeard1 | bummer |
| 20:24.11 | Jayce^ | and if you were here this week, you'd get to see harleypig on the paintball field.. |
| 20:24.28 | redbeard1 | ~paintball harleypig |
| 20:24.37 | maquis | ~paint harleypig |
| 20:24.38 | ibot | ACTION rains a tape stream of paintballs on harleypig |
| 20:24.44 | Jayce^ | in that swimsuit that borat wears in his new movie :-p |
| 20:24.55 | levi | I'm somewhat annoyed at Larry's decision to call perl6 'anything that passes the test suite'. |
| 20:25.09 | Tene | Why? |
| 20:25.13 | levi | That's just asking for all sorts of corner-case incompatibilities. |
| 20:25.31 | *** join/#utah calvarez (i=calvarez@lawn-128-61-118-225.lawn.gatech.edu) |
| 20:25.50 | levi | Test suites should supplement a specification, not /be/ the specification. |
| 20:25.54 | Jayce^ | I think it was more of a toungue in cheek statement... |
| 20:26.33 | levi | Of course, it lets them off the hook of rigorously defining the language specification. |
| 20:28.19 | *** part/#utah ^Migs^ (n=Migs@205.122.50.21) |
| 20:37.20 | *** join/#utah elg_ (n=fugalh@dhcp08.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 20:41.15 | mheath | yah :) |
| 20:44.56 | calvarez | levi, if you're against publishing a test suite as a specification for a language, then you're against freedom of speech |
| 20:45.15 | elg_ | levi: fascinating read |
| 20:45.35 | elg_ | I knew some bits of it from a rubyconf talk from last year, but not the new stuff, obviously |
| 20:46.07 | elg_ | jruby is definitely exciting. a bit of a bummer that continuations are going away though |
| 20:46.16 | elg_ | although I've not yet used them, the idea is cool |
| 20:47.21 | findlay | is there a way to list the X displays? |
| 20:47.34 | levi | I fail to see the logic in calvarez's argument. |
| 20:48.08 | elg_ | he has an argument? |
| 20:48.31 | levi | He said that if I'm against publishing a test suite as a language specification, I'm against freedom of speech. |
| 20:48.49 | elg_ | lol |
| 20:49.07 | levi | I guess that would be true if I was advocating that the government ban the specification of computer language by test suite, but clearly I didn't say anything of the sort. |
| 20:53.37 | elg | findlay: "the X displays"? |
| 21:02.05 | findlay | elg: I want to get a list of all the X servers running on this machine |
| 21:04.35 | \me | Apache C modules are pretty cool - almost as cool as mod_perl |
| 21:04.43 | \me | a pain to debug though |
| 21:05.07 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@001-779-388.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 21:05.07 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 21:11.38 | \me | c still sucks though |
| 21:15.56 | levi | Indeed, it does. |
| 21:16.05 | findlay | whenever I do `Xnest :1` then `xterm -display :1` it says AUDIT: Wed Oct 25 15:15:23 2006: 25572 Xnest: client 1 rejected from local host |
| 21:16.24 | findlay | how do I get Xnest to not reject stuff? |
| 21:16.30 | findlay | seems pretty stupid |
| 21:17.29 | elg | search for xhost |
| 21:17.36 | elg | xhost +localhost might work |
| 21:17.37 | elg | iirc |
| 21:17.42 | elg | and if you're on localhost |
| 21:18.03 | findlay | xhost? |
| 21:18.08 | elg | ~xhosst |
| 21:18.10 | findlay | ~lart xhost |
| 21:18.12 | elg | ~xhost |
| 21:18.13 | ibot | i guess xhost is ask me about mit-magic-cookie, or read /usr/share/doc/xfree86-common/FAQ.gz before even thinking about using the "xhost" command ask me about "sshx","nolisten" if you're mule-headed |
| 21:20.10 | elg | ibot: I'm mule-headed. tell me more |
| 21:20.55 | findlay | ~sshx |
| 21:20.57 | ibot | Enable X11Forwarding **on the server** (/etc/ssh/sshd_config), you can use ssh -X on the client side. Both server and client need the xauth program, which is in the xbase-clients package. ssh will run xauth and set the DISPLAY variable automatically. Neither xhost, nor X tcp support are necessary. Hint: ssh -X root@localhost, or ... |
| 21:23.45 | levi | Finally, someone responded to my concurrency tangent on PLUG. :) |
| 21:25.06 | levi | And now it's time to go to class. |
| 21:27.43 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (i=linuxali@gateway/tor/x-198543b2b3dbe505) |
| 21:28.12 | \me | the first opportunity I can get to find a way to get Perl to run this stuff as fast as C I'm totally going to do it |
| 21:28.45 | \me | I think I might use mod_perl for the c module stuff and then write an XS wrapper to link into the C libraries this thing uses |
| 21:29.03 | *** join/#utah Keighvin (n=ptomlins@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 21:29.13 | \me | anything to find a way to convert them to Perl :-D |
| 21:29.39 | findlay | c |
| 21:29.56 | Tene | \me: what stuff? |
| 21:29.56 | findlay | sorry, should have been C-a c |
| 21:30.27 | findlay | ~stuff Tene |
| 21:31.22 | Tene | ono! |
| 21:31.34 | mheath | erm, Friday|* |
| 21:32.12 | \me | Tene: just some X12 parsing code I'm working on at work |
| 21:32.28 | \me | has to use C because we deal with millions of records that have to be parsed |
| 21:32.31 | Keighvin | mheath: He'll tell you you're dying. |
| 21:32.40 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@adsl-75-0-136-70.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) |
| 21:32.44 | mheath | Keighvin: thanks :P |
| 21:32.45 | Keighvin | Get used to that now, have a good depressed low expectation. |
| 21:32.46 | \me | but I think the web part that calls the parser could be handled in mod_perl |
| 21:32.50 | Keighvin | That way anything else is good news. |
| 21:35.40 | Tene | Anyone know how to recursively add everything in a directory to a CVS repository? |
| 21:36.27 | Keighvin | `find . | xargs cvs add` |
| 21:36.57 | findlay | or to put your entire system on CVS for the added benefit: `find / | xargs cvs add` |
| 21:38.10 | Tene | Hmm. |
| 21:38.17 | *** join/#utah elg_ (n=fugalh@128.123.61.158) |
| 21:38.35 | Tene | "cannot make directory CVS in wiki: permission denied |
| 21:38.43 | Tene | Oh, permissions issue on this side |
| 21:38.53 | Tene | I'm a moron |
| 21:47.33 | maquis | curses!!!! |
| 21:47.36 | Tene | Is it possible to configure ssh options with environment variables? |
| 21:48.05 | findlay | ~nuke my neighbors |
| 21:48.13 | ibot | ACTION prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at my neighbors ... B☢☢M! |
| 21:48.19 | Tene | Hmm. Apparently not. |
| 21:48.57 | findlay | 100 nukes would be the only thing louder than this 'music' |
| 22:00.54 | Keighvin | ~nuke findlay's neighbors |
| 22:00.56 | ibot | ACTION prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at findlay's neighbors ... B☢☢M! |
| 22:01.17 | Keighvin | The bot doesn't know to supplant "my" the same way it does with "me." |
| 22:01.19 | Keighvin | ~nuke me |
| 22:01.20 | ibot | ACTION prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at keighvin ... B☢☢M! |
| 22:01.34 | Keighvin | ~wiki W47 |
| 22:02.04 | Keighvin | Nominal yield of 1.52 megatonnes. |
| 22:02.13 | *** join/#utah butangero (n=butanger@64.0.192.72) |
| 22:02.28 | *** part/#utah butangero (n=butanger@64.0.192.72) |
| 22:02.49 | Keighvin | So if that's the warhead ibot's using, we're talking a full 152MT yield on a very small target. |
| 22:03.18 | redbeard1 | ~whaleslap Keighvin |
| 22:03.19 | ibot | ACTION beats Keighvin upside and over the head with a freakishly huge killer whale named Hugh |
| 22:03.56 | redbeard1 | something about that just feels right |
| 22:08.59 | *** part/#utah linuxalien (i=linuxali@gateway/tor/x-198543b2b3dbe505) |
| 22:10.40 | maquis | *head* *hits* *keyboard* |
| 22:10.50 | Tene | yay! |
| 22:11.56 | findlay | ~java maquis |
| 22:11.57 | ibot | Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: maquis |
| 22:24.10 | Tene | Hmm. |
| 22:24.19 | Tene | vim syntax hilighting etc. for perl6? |
| 22:25.07 | Keighvin | ~whaleparry redbeard1 |
| 22:25.08 | ibot | ACTION uses a slightly less-huge but eminently more agile killer whale named Edwardo to parry redbeard1's attacks. |
| 22:25.16 | Keighvin | Half an hour too late, of course. |
| 22:25.38 | synic | ~java java.lang.String |
| 22:25.40 | ibot | Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: java.lang.String |
| 22:25.47 | synic | hrmm. |
| 22:26.55 | findlay | stupid boost |
| 22:27.03 | findlay | why does boost have to be so wierd? |
| 22:27.23 | findlay | everything from their license to their wierdo makefile |
| 22:30.26 | scott_ | anyone know of a font that uses a backwards 3 with a little line above and below it for the & character? |
| 22:30.51 | findlay | you can only find those fonts in Japan |
| 22:31.10 | findlay | for 100,000 Yen |
| 22:36.48 | findlay | you may alternatively hunt through gnome-character-map for the character you seek |
| 22:43.25 | *** join/#utah JoeyDay (n=JoeyDay@205.124.151.254) |
| 22:51.11 | Keighvin | ibot: literal CMD: java (.*?) |
| 22:51.13 | ibot | "cmd: java (.*?)" is "($kei): Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: $kei" |
| 23:09.29 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@128.123.63.88) |
| 23:22.55 | *** join/#utah elg_ (n=fugalh@dhcp08.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 23:24.23 | Keighvin | ~tick |
| 23:24.28 | ibot | Whoa-oh! Surprise hug from Mr. Freaky-Big! |
| 23:27.11 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=xbmodder@69-12-240-206.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 23:53.58 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (i=linuxali@gateway/tor/x-6da45b2af3a32845) |
| 23:57.10 | maquis | ~whaleslap emcnabb |
| 23:57.11 | ibot | ACTION beats emcnabb upside and over the head with a freakishly huge killer whale named Hugh |
