| 00:00.01 | Tene | ~8ball Should I socialize with pretty girls? |
| 00:00.03 | ibot | Absolutely. |
| 00:02.04 | Sargun | Dudeeeee.. |
| 00:02.16 | Tene | See, it's just you. |
| 00:02.22 | Tene | You're lame and not cool. |
| 00:02.34 | *** join/#utah mrpull- (n=misterpu@mail.pollmann.us) |
| 00:03.55 | macnewbold | ~sargun sargun |
| 00:03.57 | ibot | Want a VPS, sargun ?! How about it? I think you need a VPS, sargun ! Come on, lets get you a VPS, sargun ! Oh, by the way, do you know any 13 year old girls who live in San Fransisco?? |
| 00:04.20 | Tene | See? |
| 00:04.26 | Sargun | Thats getting old. |
| 00:04.35 | Sargun | ibot, delete sargun |
| 00:04.37 | ibot | Segmentation fault. |
| 00:04.46 | Sargun | ibot, sargun is nothing |
| 00:04.48 | ibot | Want a VPS, is nothing ?! How about it? I think you need a VPS, is nothing ! Come on, lets get you a VPS, is nothing ! Oh, by the way, do you know any 13 year old girls who live in San Fransisco?? |
| 00:05.00 | macnewbold | haha |
| 00:05.02 | macnewbold | that's great |
| 00:05.07 | Sargun | ibot, no, sargunis bored |
| 00:05.09 | Sargun | ibot, no, sargun is bored |
| 00:05.10 | ibot | Sargun: okay |
| 00:05.17 | Sargun | ~sargun hi |
| 00:05.19 | ibot | Want a VPS, hi ?! How about it? I think you need a VPS, hi ! Come on, lets get you a VPS, hi ! Oh, by the way, do you know any 13 year old girls who live in San Fransisco?? |
| 00:05.21 | macnewbold | ~sargun is bored |
| 00:05.22 | ibot | Want a VPS, is bored ?! How about it? I think you need a VPS, is bored ! Come on, lets get you a VPS, is bored ! Oh, by the way, do you know any 13 year old girls who live in San Fransisco?? |
| 00:05.22 | Tene | hehehe |
| 00:05.23 | macnewbold | haha |
| 00:05.26 | macnewbold | hehe |
| 00:05.29 | macnewbold | oh, this is great |
| 00:05.34 | macnewbold | ~sargun |
| 00:05.36 | ibot | sargun is probably bored |
| 00:05.43 | macnewbold | jinx |
| 00:05.43 | Sargun | ibot, sargun $blah is nothing |
| 00:05.44 | ibot | Want a VPS, $blah is nothing ?! How about it? I think you need a VPS, $blah is nothing ! Come on, lets get you a VPS, $blah is nothing ! Oh, by the way, do you know any 13 year old girls who live in San Fransisco?? |
| 00:05.46 | Tene | ~roulette |
| 00:05.48 | ibot | ACTION watches tene pull the trigger: Click! |
| 00:05.49 | Sargun | ibot, no sargun $blah is nothing |
| 00:05.50 | ibot | okay, Sargun |
| 00:05.50 | macnewbold | haha! |
| 00:05.58 | Sargun | ~sargun ibot |
| 00:05.59 | ibot | nothing |
| 00:06.03 | Sargun | YAY! |
| 00:06.15 | Tene | That was entertaining. |
| 00:06.41 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 00:06.50 | elg | so who do I need to be jealous of tomorrow |
| 00:06.54 | elg | ? |
| 00:06.58 | Tene | Me! |
| 00:07.34 | elg | levi.*: I'll bite. how do I run your emacs calculator? |
| 00:08.09 | levi | M-x calc, if it's installed. It's in cvs emacs, but possibly not emacs21 |
| 00:08.21 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (i=linuxali@gateway/tor/x-46566acd8e5fcffd) |
| 00:09.35 | levi | If not, it's packaged in debian and ubuntu. |
| 00:10.50 | Sargun | ~reminder |
| 00:10.51 | ibot | it has been said that reminder is telling people repeatedly that #oe is for help with the build system only NOT apps or distros |
| 00:10.55 | Sargun | does ibot have a reminter? |
| 00:11.14 | Sargun | ~sleep 5 |
| 00:11.15 | ibot | ACTION sends 5 to bed without supper |
| 00:13.47 | Sargun | YAY! google redesigned translate.google.com |
| 00:15.05 | levi | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:24.36 | *** part/#utah herlo (n=herlo@209.210.254.155) |
| 00:25.25 | *** join/#utah fozzmo1 (n=fozz@166.70.238.250) |
| 00:26.39 | *** part/#utah fozzmo1 (n=fozz@166.70.238.250) |
| 00:32.27 | *** join/#utah [phoenyx] (n=tthorley@67-41-227-82.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 00:56.23 | findlay | somebody say something |
| 00:56.30 | mrpull- | something |
| 00:56.37 | findlay | thank |
| 00:56.38 | findlay | s |
| 00:56.53 | Tene | ~ping |
| 00:56.56 | ibot | pong |
| 00:57.06 | findlay | ~pong |
| 00:57.07 | ibot | | . |
| 00:57.13 | findlay | ~pong duh |
| 00:57.14 | ibot | duh: PONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 00:58.05 | findlay | ~ping duh |
| 00:58.06 | ibot | pong duh |
| 01:09.52 | elg | -restart |
| 01:13.58 | *** join/#utah brac (n=rbot@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 01:13.59 | levi_home | elg: Did you try emacs calc? |
| 01:14.49 | elg | i can't figure out how to get M-x |
| 01:14.57 | elg | ibook, emacs in shell |
| 01:15.12 | levi_home | Hmm. |
| 01:15.26 | levi_home | You can always hit ESC followed by x |
| 01:15.34 | findlay | maybe you need to upgrade to jbook |
| 01:15.35 | levi_home | I think there's a key that acts as meta/alt, though. |
| 01:15.46 | levi_home | Probably option? |
| 01:15.56 | elg | option-x brings up a scratch buffer |
| 01:16.08 | elg | or somethjing like it |
| 01:16.29 | elg | ok, so esc-x I get Calc===> at the bottom |
| 01:16.48 | elg | but it's not anything like an hp48 and it's not rpn |
| 01:16.51 | levi_home | That's the old calculator. |
| 01:17.48 | levi_home | OS X ships an ancient emacs, IIRC. |
| 01:18.26 | levi_home | Do you still have a Debian or Ubuntu box somewhere? |
| 01:18.50 | elg | yah |
| 01:20.08 | levi_home | You can apt-get install calc to try it out. |
| 01:27.55 | levi_home | Have you got your new MacBook yet? |
| 01:30.32 | elg | no, and I resist the tempation to ask when it'll get here |
| 01:30.40 | elg | but I might at the end of this week if it's still not here |
| 01:31.05 | elg | ok I'm trying ti out |
| 01:31.08 | elg | s/ti/it/ |
| 01:31.29 | elg | it's pretty cool. I don't know that I prefer it over orpie |
| 01:31.39 | elg | I probably would if I were an emacs user |
| 01:38.12 | levi_home | Did you try the cool stuff like radix display conversion, interval math, and equation solving? |
| 01:38.32 | levi_home | http://refcards.com/refcards/emacs-calc/calc-refcard-letter.pdf |
| 01:38.48 | elg | orpie does radix, and octave meets all my high-octane math needs |
| 01:42.49 | levi_home | Does orpie do units? |
| 01:43.27 | levi_home | Or date arithmetic? |
| 01:44.13 | elg | no idea about date arithmetic |
| 01:44.14 | elg | units yes |
| 01:44.44 | elg | how good is this calc's units support? orpie does standard units but has not the breadth of say the units program |
| 01:44.59 | elg | meaning, i tried cups_flour and it didn't know what I was talking about. :) |
| 01:45.06 | elg | probably doesn't know barleycorns either |
| 01:45.58 | levi_home | Hit u v to show to table of units. |
| 01:46.33 | levi_home | You can add your own, too. |
| 01:47.44 | findlay | like like Wb |
| 01:48.07 | findlay | and Bq |
| 01:48.08 | levi_home | It already has Wb |
| 01:48.33 | elg | cool |
| 01:48.38 | levi_home | And Bq |
| 01:48.51 | elg | I didn't see flour or salt |
| 01:48.55 | elg | but I don't know how to search in emacs |
| 01:49.04 | levi_home | ^s |
| 01:49.17 | levi_home | Or, in emacs lingo, C-s |
| 01:49.19 | findlay | Sv |
| 01:49.28 | levi_home | Yes, Sv too. |
| 01:50.11 | findlay | kat |
| 01:50.33 | levi_home | Nope. |
| 01:50.39 | findlay | yay |
| 01:50.43 | findlay | found one |
| 01:50.51 | levi_home | But, again, you can create custom units. |
| 01:50.57 | findlay | http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/units.html |
| 01:52.53 | levi_home | It's also got a C mode, so you can convert an equation to C code, or copy some C code out of a program, take the integral of it, and paste it in again. |
| 01:53.20 | findlay | is that more than a novelty? |
| 01:53.48 | levi_home | I imagine it was useful to the guy who created it. |
| 01:54.10 | levi_home | If you're doing numeric programming, it's probably useful. |
| 02:11.37 | *** join/#utah Lone_Wanderer (n=chatzill@c-67-166-97-184.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 02:11.58 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (n=von@71.35.254.49) |
| 02:12.49 | Lone_Wanderer | Ohh, sjansen is our overlord now? |
| 02:35.16 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (n=von@71.35.254.49) |
| 02:52.05 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@209.210.190.233) |
| 02:53.18 | goozbach | ~date |
| 02:53.19 | ibot | It is now 2006.10.18 2:53:19 GMT |
| 02:53.26 | goozbach | 18th |
| 02:53.27 | goozbach | hmm |
| 02:54.02 | *** topic/#utah by goozbach -> The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah | Read http://plug.org/node/28 | these is good taters |
| 02:54.05 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 02:54.21 | goozbach | i didint' do it |
| 02:54.32 | findlay | is sjansen no longer the overlord? |
| 03:03.00 | goozbach | no |
| 03:03.29 | *** topic/#utah by elg -> The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah | Read http://plug.org/node/28 | these is good taters | I for one welcome our tuber overlords |
| 03:06.01 | elg | http://hans.fugal.net/ta/grades.cgi?class=cs510 |
| 03:06.05 | elg | look at those dismal midterm scores |
| 03:07.51 | nick125_lappy | ... |
| 03:08.07 | nick125_lappy | ...wow |
| 03:08.27 | elg | http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~hfugal/cs510fa06/midterm.pdf |
| 03:09.23 | elg | their hangup was problems 4 and 5 |
| 03:09.39 | elg | most got a grand total of 5 points between those two problems |
| 03:12.22 | elg | xprizecup.com |
| 03:14.42 | elg | that's what i'm doing sat. morning |
| 03:17.36 | *** join/#utah decriptor (n=decripto@sshaw.fttp.xmission.com) |
| 03:17.58 | decriptor | I need suggestion for a name |
| 03:18.14 | decriptor | a girls name to be specific |
| 03:18.15 | Tene | Dante |
| 03:18.21 | elg | Dantina |
| 03:18.23 | Tene | Heh. |
| 03:18.47 | decriptor | We were thinking about Evelyn or Rachel |
| 03:18.47 | elg | lassie |
| 03:18.55 | elg | Kjersten |
| 03:19.03 | elg | Sadie |
| 03:19.11 | elg | Mjerlo |
| 03:19.18 | elg | Merina |
| 03:19.24 | elg | Toya |
| 03:19.30 | elg | Yane |
| 03:19.30 | Tene | Michelle, Stephine, Maaike, Laura, Marissa, Emily, Katherine, Rachel, Melissa, Sara, Sarah, Sandie, Alex, Chelsea |
| 03:19.44 | elg | Mikmod |
| 03:21.03 | elg | Nerak |
| 03:22.01 | fozzmoo | Numlock! |
| 03:22.09 | elg | Fozza |
| 03:22.31 | elg | be sure to visit http://wesclark.com/ubn/ |
| 03:22.37 | decriptor | ok more specifically a name that I can give to my daughter |
| 03:22.45 | elg | Kahless is my favorite |
| 03:23.22 | elg | stay clear of Tiarrhea, Nudity, VulvaMae, and others in that section |
| 03:23.52 | decriptor | So far I want to stay clear of the site :) |
| 03:23.57 | decriptor | Ann-Toy |
| 03:24.02 | decriptor | just doesn't make the cut |
| 03:24.12 | elg | well that's the make-fun-of names |
| 03:24.30 | decriptor | so then this is the list of names not to use |
| 03:24.32 | decriptor | :) |
| 03:24.34 | elg | they do have names you might like if you're of a utah mentality |
| 03:24.58 | elg | if you would never think of naming a server moroni, let alone your child, you might not find any good names there |
| 03:25.20 | elg | my favorite names are always ethnically relevant |
| 03:25.29 | elg | welsh, scandinavian, British |
| 03:25.41 | elg | pick a family line and find a good name |
| 03:26.02 | elg | just don't name her emcnabb |
| 03:28.50 | *** join/#utah herlo (n=herlo@adsl-75-31-54-193.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:28.56 | decriptor | I'll take that last one seriously |
| 03:29.05 | decriptor | We're leaning towards Rachel |
| 03:29.06 | decriptor | though |
| 03:29.10 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch@71-219-4-113.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 03:29.13 | decriptor | so I think she's safe |
| 03:29.35 | herlo | decriptor, congrats on the new family member |
| 03:29.39 | decriptor | thanks |
| 03:29.45 | elg | Rachel is nice. I had a crush on a Rachel |
| 03:30.03 | Tene | My sister is named Rachel. |
| 03:30.04 | decriptor | the first thing my wife said was what was her middle name |
| 03:30.05 | herlo | one time, when we were kids, my uncle was taking us on a river trip |
| 03:30.05 | decriptor | :) |
| 03:30.19 | Tene | A crazy unstable broken girl I knew was named Rachel also, though. |
| 03:30.19 | herlo | and my brother had this girl named Rachel who liked him. |
| 03:30.33 | goozbach | Wayne's world++ |
| 03:30.34 | herlo | my uncle said to him, that she liked him and he was grossed out |
| 03:31.10 | herlo | after that we were going down the river and my uncle saw this section of water with some soft ripples and made my brother very mad when he said |
| 03:31.20 | herlo | Robby's ripples, Rachel's nipples. |
| 03:31.24 | herlo | :-) |
| 03:31.27 | fozzmoo | hee. |
| 03:32.00 | goozbach | fozzmoo this movie made me excited for Nov |
| 03:32.01 | herlo | I think he still gets a little perturbed when my uncle mentions it, but we all think it's hilarious |
| 03:32.19 | *** part/#utah linuxalien (i=linuxali@gateway/tor/x-46566acd8e5fcffd) |
| 03:32.27 | Tene | fozz, you grabbed Heroes yet? |
| 03:33.46 | mheath | Remember, Remember, the 5th of November... |
| 03:34.01 | elg | the day I fly to new orleans |
| 03:34.02 | elg | w00t |
| 03:34.18 | mheath | The Gunpowder Treason and Plot |
| 03:34.35 | mheath | I can think of no reason the gunpowder treason should ever be forgot... |
| 03:34.43 | mheath | Britain has creepy nursery rhymes. |
| 03:36.34 | mheath | elg: why are you going to New Orleans |
| 03:36.36 | mheath | ? |
| 03:36.37 | fozzmoo | Tene: I watched ep1 on the flight to SF |
| 03:36.44 | fozzmoo | on my X5. |
| 03:36.45 | elg | mheath: icmc2006.org |
| 03:36.51 | fozzmoo | I need to watch ep2 and ep3 now. |
| 03:37.43 | mheath | elg: why does that website make my Windows XP machine want to install the korean language pack? |
| 03:37.47 | fozzmoo | goozbach: What movie? |
| 03:38.13 | elg | mheath: got me. |
| 03:38.21 | elg | maybe there's a korean presenter |
| 03:38.45 | mheath | elg: sounds fun though! |
| 03:39.11 | goozbach | Wayne's World 2 |
| 03:40.15 | mheath | elg: oh, theres a logo for the "Korea Foundation" |
| 03:40.24 | mheath | maybe it's alternative text is in Korean |
| 03:41.19 | mheath | gah |
| 03:41.34 | mheath | I still can't decide between a database or XML files for this project. |
| 03:41.52 | nick125_lappy | what project? |
| 03:42.03 | mheath | An inventory management app. |
| 03:42.12 | nick125_lappy | how many records? |
| 03:42.32 | mheath | A few hundred items. |
| 03:42.53 | nick125_lappy | I guess you could make it with XML, but, I personally think a database would be better/easier/faster |
| 03:43.28 | fozzmoo | heh. |
| 03:43.51 | fozzmoo | mheath: XML isn't really a database. When you need a database, use a database. |
| 03:44.04 | nick125_lappy | yeah.. |
| 03:44.37 | fozzmoo | KAudioCreator rocks a little |
| 03:44.53 | mheath | Either will work nicely, though |
| 03:45.04 | mheath | Like nick125_lappy said, a database will be easier to program..... |
| 03:45.25 | mheath | But, the issue is I think I might distribute this to others |
| 03:45.36 | mheath | People who aren't competent enough to set up an SQL server on the machine |
| 03:45.47 | fozzmoo | There's SQLite. |
| 03:45.53 | mheath | I could use something like SQLIte, but thats a pain to package.. |
| 03:46.06 | fozzmoo | DBD::CSV :) |
| 03:46.25 | mheath | Everything else is in Java, but suddenly with SQLite, you have a necessity for multiple releases for different archs |
| 03:46.28 | fozzmoo | What language, btw? |
| 03:46.42 | mheath | Java |
| 03:46.52 | mheath | though it will probably have some Perl stuff in it, too |
| 03:47.05 | mheath | Just because I need to do some things that I've only really found perl modules to do |
| 03:48.31 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@208.64.90.18.utahbroadband.com) |
| 04:33.56 | Sargun | hi |
| 04:45.54 | mheath | ~lart GridBagLayout |
| 04:54.13 | bonez39 | if I have a list of email address...each on a new line....how could i simply create a file with each name comma delimited, i.e., name1, name2, nameetcetera....to end...instead of name1 |
| 04:54.15 | bonez39 | name2 |
| 04:54.19 | bonez39 | name3...... |
| 04:59.33 | Tene | do you need to do it in an automated way, or would opening it in vim be fine? |
| 05:00.17 | Tene | I've never been clear on how to do multi-line stuff with sed, but in vim, just ggVGJ |
| 05:00.38 | Tene | :%s/ /, /g |
| 05:01.00 | Tene | Hackish, but gets the job done. |
| 05:01.18 | bonez39 | Tene, I want to email to this list....mailman is not working at the moment, and I need to mail out stuff to this list |
| 05:02.49 | Tene | open it in vim, ggVGJ |
| 05:02.59 | Tene | then :%s/ /, /g |
| 05:07.35 | bonez39 | just as you have typed...I run > vim address_list.txt |
| 05:07.55 | bonez39 | and then ":%s/ /, /g" minus the " " marks? |
| 05:08.17 | elg | that will replace every space with a comma and a space |
| 05:08.23 | elg | so you tell us if it works :) |
| 05:09.04 | Tene | after typing ggVGJ |
| 05:10.24 | bonez39 | that worked..... |
| 05:10.31 | bonez39 | vim is powerful....amazing |
| 05:10.35 | mheath | finally tear myself away from programing |
| 05:10.39 | mheath | remember that I have work tomorrow :P |
| 05:19.31 | Tene | bonez39: by the way, that's (gg: go to the very start of the file)(V: go into line-select mode)(G: go to the last line of the file)(J: Join all the selected lines together) |
| 05:20.55 | Tene | So, I'm taking a trip to visit a friend. Friend is completely unavailable until 4:30 on the day I arrive. The cheaper flight I'm considering is overnight, 3 hour layover, and arrives at 6AM. The other flight is $50 more, but arrives at 4:00. |
| 05:21.34 | Tene | So, is $50 worth idling for 10 hours in an airport terminal? |
| 06:04.38 | bonez39 | Tene, what's your time worth? |
| 06:04.57 | bonez39 | and how comfortable can you find your back, in an airport chair? |
| 06:13.43 | Tene | I have decided that I shall take the second option! |
| 06:13.50 | Tene | It is my decision, and I am the decider. |
| 06:15.22 | bonez39 | good for you, Tene |
| 06:15.57 | bonez39 | after a while, time becomes more important than a few dollars......if it means you are more effective in doing what you do where you go.... |
| 06:17.08 | Tene | Well, yes, but that time would not have otherwise been spent being productive. |
| 06:17.54 | Tene | It is the choice between sleeping in my bed and sleeping in an aeroplane. |
| 06:19.17 | bonez39 | ah....always options to consider...... |
| 06:19.58 | Tene | Or, alternately, my awake time spent in an airplane or in an airport. |
| 06:20.04 | bonez39 | for me if I could combine sleeping,a nd flying....I'd happily take a red eye flight.....but I'd want those COOOOLLL Bose Noise Suppressing Headphones.....for the trip... |
| 06:20.18 | Tene | I suppose I would probably have *more* productive time with the night flight. |
| 06:28.03 | Tene | Hmm. |
| 07:01.29 | Sargun | poke y'all |
| 07:09.54 | *** join/#utah dilvie (n=chatzill@c-67-166-126-133.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 07:13.36 | Sargun | ~8ball food |
| 07:13.45 | ibot | Negative. |
| 07:14.05 | Sargun | ~8ball eat ibot |
| 07:14.07 | ibot | No. |
| 07:14.13 | Sargun | ~8ball kill ibot |
| 07:14.14 | ibot | Are you smoking crack? |
| 07:14.36 | Sargun | ~8ball no |
| 07:14.37 | ibot | Absolutely. |
| 07:14.48 | Sargun | ~8ball are you on something? |
| 07:14.50 | ibot | Absolutely. |
| 07:15.02 | Sargun | ~8ball is it a drug? |
| 07:15.03 | ibot | Yes. |
| 07:15.13 | Sargun | ~8ball is it smokable? |
| 07:15.15 | ibot | Are you smoking crack? |
| 07:15.19 | Sargun | ~8ball is it injectable |
| 07:15.20 | ibot | Unsure. |
| 07:16.10 | Sargun | ~8ball is it eatable? |
| 07:16.11 | ibot | Absolutely. |
| 07:16.24 | Sargun | ~8ball is it marijuana? |
| 07:16.25 | ibot | Unsure. |
| 07:16.33 | Sargun | ~8ball is it a plant? |
| 07:16.34 | ibot | No. |
| 07:16.41 | Sargun | ~8ball is it a pill? |
| 07:16.42 | ibot | Yes. |
| 07:16.47 | Sargun | ~8ball is it X? |
| 07:16.48 | ibot | No. |
| 07:16.53 | Sargun | ~8ball is it ectasy |
| 07:16.54 | ibot | Negative. |
| 07:17.02 | Sargun | What other pills are there |
| 07:17.07 | Sargun | ~8ball is it vicoden |
| 07:17.08 | ibot | Absolutely. |
| 07:17.12 | Sargun | lol. |
| 07:17.15 | Sargun | hahaha |
| 07:17.17 | tensai | how do I get sucked into writing long emails at 1am? |
| 07:17.24 | Sargun | tensai, to who? |
| 07:17.42 | tensai | crap, that reminds me that I'm supposed to publish a document by tomorrow morning. guess I better do that. |
| 07:17.48 | tensai | Sargun: this one was to sllug |
| 07:18.21 | Sargun | ah |
| 07:18.21 | tensai | I just came down to smack my radius server around and somehow I started an essay on open source licensing |
| 07:18.23 | Sargun | on what? |
| 07:18.28 | Sargun | haha |
| 07:18.28 | Sargun | fun. |
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| 13:05.46 | maquis | tensai: ick |
| 13:27.23 | redbeard1 | ~lart maquis |
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| 13:30.34 | redbeard1 | ~lart elg |
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| 13:45.01 | elg | http://xkcd.com/c172.html |
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| 14:22.07 | mheath | Good morning! |
| 14:22.19 | tristanbob | good morning |
| 14:27.05 | levi | Morning. |
| 14:27.23 | graphyx | Morning |
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| 14:31.22 | elg | levi: going to see matz? |
| 14:32.22 | levi | elg: Nope; it's a bad day for it for me. I've got a midterm in class at 4pm, and a meeting at work at 2pm, and I want to get a bit more studying in before the test. |
| 14:33.02 | elg | ah |
| 14:33.10 | elg | i won't have to be jealous of you then |
| 14:34.24 | mheath | mmm, I hope I make as much money today as I did yesterday. |
| 14:34.45 | emcnabb | I hope I make lots of money today too |
| 14:34.46 | levi | While it would be cool to see Matz talk about Ruby, he doesn't elicit the same kind of interest for me that Alan Kay and Peter Van Roy did. |
| 14:34.54 | emcnabb | to bad I'm on salary |
| 14:34.59 | mheath | Heh. |
| 14:35.38 | mheath | Considering how much I made in tips yesterday...I was making more per hour than a college grad in an average post-college-starting-level-job :P |
| 14:35.43 | mheath | But things even out, unfortunately |
| 14:35.52 | mheath | I'll get really, really good tips yesterday and then horrible ones today. |
| 14:38.25 | emcnabb | well, I prefer getting paid good wages consistantly and getting health insurance and other benefits |
| 14:39.10 | mheath | O.o I get health insurance. |
| 14:39.18 | mheath | What kind of job doesn't give you health insurance? |
| 14:39.22 | mheath | Freakin McDonalds gives you that |
| 14:39.31 | emcnabb | actually, a lot don't |
| 14:39.41 | emcnabb | hey guys, mheath unignored me! |
| 14:39.53 | emcnabb | I'm now worthy of his attention! |
| 14:39.55 | mheath | I even get payed vacation time |
| 14:39.56 | emcnabb | w00t |
| 14:40.04 | levi | Anyone seen http://xkcd.com/blue_eyes.html ? |
| 14:40.22 | graphyx | mheath: wow.. At olive garden we didn't get holiday pay until like 5 years and the health coverage was terrible. |
| 14:40.48 | emcnabb | graphyx: but this is Applebees, which is the best restaurant in the country |
| 14:40.48 | goozbach | levi: know the solution? |
| 14:40.51 | goozbach | it's a toughy |
| 14:40.55 | emcnabb | graphyx: you should know these things |
| 14:41.03 | levi | Nope. |
| 14:41.16 | goozbach | so sjansen hit me up on jabber this morning |
| 14:41.45 | goozbach | he confirmed that it was pixies that attacked and kidnapped him |
| 14:41.45 | mheath | graphyx: William Tell (the company that owns all the Applebee's franchises in Utah, and Alaska, along wiht some other restraunts like Famous Daves) is a really good company that way. |
| 14:42.40 | goozbach | now all I have is a picture of harleypig wearing a tutu with lacy wings, in my head |
| 14:42.50 | graphyx | levi hackquest.de has that riddle as one of their puzzles as well. |
| 14:42.51 | emcnabb | mheath: you crack me up |
| 14:43.03 | mheath | I mean, if the pay was consistently as good as I got yesterday, I could stick around there longterm |
| 14:43.11 | mheath | I walked away from a 3.5 hour shift with $60 |
| 14:43.54 | goozbach | eventually, mheath will have the equivelent of a direct connection to one person. |
| 14:44.07 | mheath | Hah, probably. |
| 14:44.09 | emcnabb | goozbach: you volunteering? |
| 14:44.23 | emcnabb | back to work |
| 14:44.41 | mheath | People have to be consistently really stupid and really annoying for me to ignore them though |
| 14:44.46 | mheath | so far emcnabb and Sargun are the only ones. |
| 14:45.26 | mheath | bah, irssi is driving me insane. I need to configure it....I really like the default config on all the Linux systems I use, but its apparently very different on FreeBSD. |
| 14:45.43 | emcnabb | mheath: am I 'really stupid' or 'really annoying' or both? |
| 14:46.07 | graphyx | emcnabb: He said AND. |
| 14:46.19 | graphyx | emcnabb: and consistently.. |
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| 14:47.00 | goozbach | mheath: could you explain how emcnabb is both 'really stupid' and 'really annoying' consistantly. |
| 14:47.00 | emcnabb | graphyx: ah, I see |
| 14:47.03 | goozbach | ? |
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| 14:47.27 | mheath | goozbach: he did something stupid, and I can't remember what, exactly. I usually put people on ignore for a short time period, but then when they do stupid stuff like try to evade it, it becomes permanent. |
| 14:48.32 | mheath | It would have been a one time, temporary thing, but I can't stand it when people evade stuff, or when they do mocking monologues pretending to be me. |
| 14:48.47 | graphyx | ~sargun mheath |
| 14:48.49 | ibot | nothing |
| 14:48.58 | graphyx | ~xbmodder mheath |
| 14:49.08 | mheath | Sargun changed it -.- |
| 14:49.13 | graphyx | Looks like that monologue was removed.. |
| 14:49.55 | *** join/#utah scothoser (n=scothose@wifi-177151.aoce.utah.edu) |
| 14:49.59 | scothoser | Morning all! |
| 14:50.04 | mheath | graphyx: theres a difference between a playful ibot command that Sargun laughs at, and changing nicks to 'mheath' or equivelent and doing stupid things. |
| 14:50.21 | mheath | scothoser: morning! Hey, I have a question for you :) |
| 14:50.34 | scothoser | Sure thing mheath! Shoot.. |
| 14:50.51 | graphyx | mheath: What's wrong with changing your nick to mheath and doing stupid stuff? I mean, come on.. you do it.. ;) |
| 14:51.05 | mheath | Are 'Double Deluxe' rooms on campus worth the slight increase in cost from a standard 'Double' ? |
| 14:52.09 | mheath | scothoser: and, one other question: Is the Sage Point stuff at a decent location on campus? |
| 14:52.13 | emcnabb | graphyx: nice :-) |
| 14:52.19 | mheath | ~lart graphyx |
| 14:52.35 | scothoser | I honestly don't know.. When I went to the U, I lived off campus. I'm sure the difference would be worth it, if you need the additional space. Personally, I would prefer the less expensive room, as I would spend all my time at the Library. ^_^ |
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| 14:54.26 | levi | I found the answer to that puzzle in Wikipedia. The answer makes sense, but I wouldn't have guessed it. |
| 14:54.33 | graphyx | oh wow.. |
| 14:54.47 | graphyx | levi whats the link? |
| 14:54.51 | scothoser | As for location, Sage Point is north of pretty much everything, but it's not far from a Trax stop at Fort Douglas. And if you like riding bikes or skate boards, the rest of the campus is all down hill. ^_^ |
| 14:54.53 | levi | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_knowledge_(logic) |
| 14:55.42 | mheath | That Trax stop is not near Fort Douglas :P |
| 14:56.23 | mheath | What UoU lovingly calls Fort Douglas is not "Fort Douglas". |
| 14:57.03 | mheath | Fort Douglas is a reserve army, navy, and marine corps base to the south of the UoU |
| 14:57.21 | graphyx | levi cool |
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| 14:58.34 | levi | http://secondlife.reuters.com/stories/2006/10/15/us-congress-launchs-probe-into-virtual-economies/ |
| 14:58.50 | mheath | I get nostalgic about military history. Part of me thinks it's kind of sad to see some of what represents 50+ years of history used as college housing and office space. |
| 15:00.25 | levi | Poor mheath. |
| 15:00.55 | mheath | bah |
| 15:00.57 | mheath | ~lart levi |
| 15:01.18 | mheath | bootldr? :P You feeling a bit lazy, ibot? |
| 15:01.25 | mheath | oa are troublesome, I know. |
| 15:01.25 | levi | At least the buildings are preserved and are being used. Instead, they could be condemned and torn down. |
| 15:01.54 | mheath | Good point, I suppose. |
| 15:02.45 | mheath | ibot: ~nick |
| 15:02.54 | mheath | ~nick |
| 15:02.56 | ibot | ACTION looks around for someone named nick. |
| 15:03.07 | mheath | ~nickname |
| 15:03.09 | ibot | nickname is, like, ask me about "register your nickname" |
| 15:03.17 | emcnabb | mheath, you're not in the marines any more, move on in life. it will be ok |
| 15:03.18 | mheath | O.o |
| 15:03.25 | mheath | ibot: register your nickname |
| 15:03.27 | ibot | i guess register your nickname is /msg NickServ help, or /msg NickServ help register |
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| 15:04.46 | mheath | OK, time to go get ready for the day. Have a good day, everyone. |
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| 15:30.14 | graphyx | Get one of these for work: http://www.penny-arcade.com/docs/snipzor02.jpg Nerf Sniper rifle. |
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| 15:35.59 | emcnabb | cool command of the day. Which gcc flags was an RPM package compiled with: |
| 15:36.01 | emcnabb | rpm -q --queryformat "%{NAME} %{OPTFLAGS}\n" httpd |
| 15:37.52 | goozbach | ohh cool |
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| 15:40.57 | graphyx | </shameless redhat plug> |
| 15:41.24 | mheath | eh? How is a sniper rifle a redhat plug? |
| 15:44.11 | graphyx | looks like mheath ignores are working again since he didn't realize my comment was a response to emcnabbs |
| 15:45.01 | TheDruidXpawX | Neat. HTCPCP http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2324.html |
| 15:46.21 | graphyx | TheDruidXpawX: You didn't read the data published, right? |
| 15:46.40 | TheDruidXpawX | I think based on the local area's propensity for Postum instead of Coffee, we may need to extend this with an option extension HTPCP. |
| 15:47.00 | TheDruidXpawX | :) |
| 15:47.24 | graphyx | Is there an open source application utilizing this protocol? |
| 15:49.32 | TheDruidXpawX | Sure, Emacs Lisp: coffee.el allows Emacs users to submit a BREW request to an RFC2324-compliant coffee device (Hyper Text Coffee Pot Control Protocol, or HTCPCP). It prompts the user for the different additives, then issues a HTCPCP BREW request to the coffee device. |
| 15:50.07 | graphyx | nice... |
| 15:50.48 | rsimpkins | Can anyone here recommend a good GUI front end for svn - perferably with a Windows client? |
| 15:50.54 | goozbach | a guy here at teh office created an actuall RFC2324 coffee maker |
| 15:51.25 | goozbach | it's got an imbedded webserver and everything |
| 16:00.33 | harleypig | Sadness is just another word for not enough pepsi |
| 16:03.43 | TheDruidXpawX | goozbach: they guy at your office should sell those on Think Geek. :D |
| 16:04.30 | TheDruidXpawX | He'd be rakin in the cash on that one ;) |
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| 16:18.04 | Keighvin | meh. |
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| 16:49.04 | findlay | wow, this /ignore command is fun |
| 16:49.11 | findlay | I've officially ignored everyone |
| 16:49.19 | findlay | until the end of time |
| 16:49.40 | findlay | so, now I'm a readonly dispenser of wisdom |
| 16:49.44 | ^Migs^ | let's talk about findlay behind his back! |
| 16:50.02 | findlay | what, ^Migs^, did you say something? |
| 16:50.11 | ^Migs^ | I hear findlay has an unusual green growth under his feet |
| 16:50.13 | TheDruidXpawX | I wonder if that will work for my bosses.. |
| 16:50.15 | findlay | must have been some windy packets |
| 16:52.16 | findlay | it's part of an experiment I'm doing with cyanobacteria in order to gain energy from photosynthesis and store it into batteries worn in my shoes |
| 16:58.01 | elg_ | levi: can you get a paper for me? |
| 16:58.01 | elg_ | http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=281276.281299 |
| 17:04.36 | levi | Sure, hold on a sec. |
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| 17:06.44 | levi | elg_: Well, I could if uvsc's network was up. |
| 17:07.11 | levi | Ahh, there it went. Maybe it's just slow today. |
| 17:10.43 | levi | Gah, they changed the login to the proxy server. |
| 17:10.43 | levi | Ahh, figured it out. |
| 17:13.17 | levi | elg_: Ahh, that's not actually part of the ACM digital library; it's just a reference in the Guide. |
| 17:13.27 | elg_ | ok |
| 17:14.51 | levi | elg_: Your library ought to have better journal resources than the UVSC library, anyway. :) |
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| 17:31.29 | macnewbold | that's a whole lot of video rentals ... where'd you get the card? |
| 17:31.40 | emcnabb | haha |
| 17:32.01 | macnewbold | so what kind of card is it? and why? |
| 17:32.18 | emcnabb | high end NVIDIA Quadro |
| 17:32.25 | emcnabb | testing purposes |
| 17:33.36 | elg_ | bzflag? |
| 17:33.42 | emcnabb | I wish |
| 17:34.06 | emcnabb | my co-worker said that it gets something like 25,000 FPS |
| 17:34.33 | elg_ | you need to test it |
| 17:39.38 | harleypig | I know you all want to see me in *this* bathing suit: http://www.defamer.com/hollywood/borat/more-halloween-costume-ideas-borat-at-the-beach-208440.php |
| 17:40.47 | ^Migs^ | that is ubersexy |
| 17:41.55 | findlay | bzflag!!1 |
| 17:42.19 | findlay | in 25,000 FPS! |
| 17:42.59 | emcnabb | harleypig: oh my, that's just wrong |
| 17:44.07 | TimRiker | sweet. now you need multiple 24" or higher LCD panels to hook up. or 1080p projectors. :) |
| 17:46.01 | graphyx | harleypig: I think there is a place in San Francisco that has a costume party each year. In San Jose, the news would always talk about how shocking it was since people would try to wear as little as possible. You could go there and clean the place out.. |
| 17:46.05 | harleypig | that would be fun |
| 17:46.41 | harleypig | liberally applied peanut oil and a nutsling ... I'd have the beach to myself in minutes. |
| 17:47.07 | harleypig | mrpull-: feel free to continue pointing out these blogs ... :> |
| 17:47.18 | harleypig | anything to poke people's brain wraps |
| 17:48.44 | TimRiker | that suit is sick. even more sick is that the guy on ebay has sold over $1000 worth of cheap imitations. |
| 17:49.39 | harleypig | cheap being relative ... how much imagination does it take to come up with something like that |
| 17:49.45 | harleypig | or material for that matter. |
| 17:50.14 | graphyx | It follows the price guide to women's underware. The less fabric the more expensive. |
| 17:50.36 | graphyx | I suppose so that when a guy pays $100 for some underwear the girl feels obligated to wear it for him? |
| 17:50.39 | levi | Radia Perlman just became one of my new heroes. |
| 17:51.07 | harleypig | levi: why? |
| 17:51.11 | harleypig | and who is radia perlman |
| 17:51.37 | levi | In her academic paper describing the spanning tree algorithm, which she invented, she initially presents it as an 'algorhyme', the algorithm in short poem form. :) |
| 17:52.07 | levi | It starts, "I think that I shall never see / a graph more lovely than a tree" |
| 17:52.15 | harleypig | :D |
| 17:52.58 | levi | She's got nothin' on the Great Quux, but that puts her way up there in coolness. |
| 17:54.43 | mrpull- | ~praise NCID |
| 17:54.44 | ibot | All hail NCID! |
| 17:58.08 | findlay | it would be cool if the poem were a valid description of the algorithm in english-code |
| 17:59.00 | levi | It does describe the algorithm. |
| 17:59.39 | harleypig | maquis: that's in 3.0 |
| 17:59.48 | harleypig | or maybe 4.0 |
| 17:59.51 | maquis | harleypig: what 3.0? |
| 17:59.53 | mrpull- | maquis: the google browser sync extension might help.. |
| 18:00.02 | harleypig | firefox 3.0 |
| 18:00.14 | harleypig | mrpull-: not the way she's describing but close |
| 18:00.16 | maquis | harleypig: ah... but i doubt it would quite work the way i want :) |
| 18:00.26 | goozbach | let me guess, fedoraproject.org is down. |
| 18:00.27 | maquis | i'm using synergy between the 2 computers |
| 18:00.32 | goozbach | FC6 dropped today |
| 18:00.33 | harleypig | and it really bugs me thatyou can only have one instance of that extension connected at a time. |
| 18:00.44 | herlo | goozbach: you mean it's released? |
| 18:00.47 | mrpull- | synergy is dope |
| 18:00.55 | harleypig | Does that mean it'll be born in a week or so? |
| 18:01.07 | maquis | mrpull-: synergy is actually pretty nice sometimes |
| 18:01.59 | mrpull- | dope where dope == very cool |
| 18:02.00 | harleypig | 'in spots I think "who thought up this?"' - Larry Wall on Perl6 |
| 18:02.08 | maquis | mrpull-: oh.... uh... ok :) |
| 18:02.21 | mrpull- | http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dope |
| 18:02.31 | mrpull- | (but not the drug version of dope) |
| 18:02.48 | maquis | i'm afraid i don't know very many terms from urbandictionary.com |
| 18:03.05 | herlo | maquis: that's probably for the best |
| 18:03.06 | mrpull- | I think synergy is very cool, but find using vituralization to be more attractive |
| 18:03.08 | herlo | :-) |
| 18:03.17 | maquis | herlo: :) |
| 18:04.04 | maquis | mrpull-: probably true, but since i have 2 machines and 2 monitors, and one has to be windows, and the other gets to be linux... |
| 18:04.44 | mrpull- | for me... windows pc hooked to two monitors... ssh to the linux box |
| 18:04.55 | mrpull- | who needs a linux gui anyway? |
| 18:04.58 | mrpull- | ;-) |
| 18:05.01 | goozbach | herlo: I'd assume so, when I checked monday, it was pushed back to today |
| 18:05.11 | maquis | i like evilwm better than windows |
| 18:06.00 | herlo | goozbach: just checked fedoraproject.org, looks like next week... |
| 18:06.00 | mrpull- | dualhead linux + rdp to pc isn't a bad option either |
| 18:06.07 | herlo | but they have a pre-dvd release |
| 18:06.20 | mrpull- | I always felt like I was wasting screen space when using synergy |
| 18:06.50 | findlay | ugh. Who *wants* a windows GUI |
| 18:06.52 | findlay | (: |
| 18:07.11 | findlay | metacity kicks windows anyday |
| 18:08.59 | maquis | mrpull-: sure... i'm wasting screen space... the windows screen is pretty empty |
| 18:09.05 | Tene | and metacity doesn't even have feet! |
| 18:09.49 | mrpull- | rdp to the windows box and then you can minimize it anytime you are not using it |
| 18:10.52 | maquis | or i could just go open that window in firefox on windows |
| 18:11.08 | mrpull- | nah... now you are being to practical |
| 18:11.10 | findlay | no way. You can do that? |
| 18:11.13 | mrpull- | s/to/too/ |
| 18:17.10 | harleypig | anyone know of a way to make thunderbird use my firefox isntead of the gnome browser? |
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| 18:22.54 | scothoser | harleypig: Have you tried asking it nicely? ^_^ |
| 18:23.55 | harleypig | scothoser: :P |
| 18:24.23 | harleypig | Found a way, courtesy of gavins in #firefox |
| 18:27.13 | goozbach | interesting, fedoraproject is down only from the office. |
| 18:27.15 | goozbach | hmm |
| 18:27.26 | goozbach | conspiricy nerve tingling |
| 18:30.43 | ^Migs^ | Anime Con on Saturday! http://www.animebanzai.com |
| 18:30.51 | TheDruidXpawX | Oct24 is general availability for fc6. |
| 18:35.51 | goozbach | TheDruidXpawX: yeah, NOW it it |
| 18:35.59 | goozbach | s/it it/it is/ |
| 18:36.37 | TheDruidXpawX | Yeah, last time I looked I thought it was the 16th. I guess it slipped again |
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| 18:44.52 | TheDruidXpawX | Interesting, mirrors.kernel.org already has extras built for 6, but alas, no hidden isos for the core |
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| 18:48.58 | ^Migs^ | I just learned a new word. Pass-i-vate. |
| 18:49.21 | ^Migs^ | but the dictionary doesn't have the definition in the coding context it was used |
| 18:50.29 | levi | Huh. The opposite of activate, apparently. |
| 18:51.05 | herlo | Passive activate |
| 18:53.00 | levi | Well, in the electronics sense (which is the one in the dictionary I looked at) it means to render inert, more or less. |
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| 19:33.35 | goozbach | ok so when I get around to building a house, at least part of it will be constructed using shipping containers |
| 19:38.11 | ^Migs^ | use silly putty |
| 19:41.50 | Jayce^ | goozbach, a sun shipping container? |
| 19:42.23 | goozbach | Jayce^: like a 20' or 40' big corragated steel shipping container |
| 19:42.52 | goozbach | big boat -> rail -> tractor-trailer shipping container |
| 19:50.37 | Tene | Hmm. I can still log into BYU's website. I wonder if I still have an email account there. |
| 19:51.15 | *** join/#utah albino (n=albino@nafpik.com) |
| 19:51.35 | albino | Can anyone give me a directions on where I can park and not get a ticket for the matz speach today at the Y? |
| 19:52.19 | graphyx | Orem |
| 19:54.17 | ^Migs^ | why would you want to go to that? |
| 19:54.28 | ^Migs^ | wtf is the matz? |
| 19:54.54 | albino | ^Migs^: Ever heard of the ruby language? He created it. |
| 19:55.00 | ^Migs^ | sounds gay |
| 19:55.13 | albino | ^Migs^: Maybe for some of us |
| 19:55.16 | ^Migs^ | what could he possibly talk about? |
| 19:55.20 | albino | For the unaware http://www.cs.byu.edu/feature/?section=display&id=200 |
| 19:55.27 | ^Migs^ | is he going to actually TEACH ruby? |
| 19:55.36 | albino | ^Migs^: Are you being serious? Probably about the langauge. |
| 19:55.39 | ^Migs^ | or just sit there and brag about how awesome he is for creating it? |
| 19:55.53 | ^Migs^ | if he's not going to teach it, it's a complete and utter waste of time |
| 19:56.13 | ^Migs^ | better hurry. It's in an hour. |
| 19:56.18 | albino | ^Migs^: Well creating a language isn't some easy thing that everyone in the world does, especially one with the popularity of ruby. |
| 19:56.20 | Keighvin | Man, what a meeting. |
| 19:56.34 | ^Migs^ | wtf? He served a mission in Japan? |
| 19:56.36 | albino | ^Migs^: Wow, you sound rather short sighted |
| 19:57.03 | harleypig | Keighvin: so, can the app do everything they claim? |
| 19:57.15 | harleypig | or, rather, did the demo do everything they claim |
| 19:57.24 | harleypig | and was the lunch worth it? |
| 19:57.36 | ^Migs^ | why are YOU going then, alby? |
| 19:57.40 | ^Migs^ | what do you want him to talk about? |
| 19:58.06 | ^Migs^ | is his speech going to be a hybrid of technology and inspiration or something? |
| 19:59.01 | ^Migs^ | okay, I see, he's going to introduce the language, so it's really for noobs. |
| 19:59.06 | albino | ^Migs^: About the damn language. Do you expect people to give interesting talks about things they have no clue on or what? |
| 19:59.23 | ^Migs^ | are you a Ruby nooby. alby? |
| 19:59.32 | ^Migs^ | well, it still sounds boring. |
| 20:00.08 | albino | ^Migs^: Nope, I haven't used it at all. I just want to hear the guy talk about his creation. |
| 20:00.09 | ^Migs^ | he's probably not even the best Ruby developer. I'd rather hear from an expert. Often the creators are lacking in abilities. |
| 20:01.44 | goozbach | ^Migs^: what do you have against Matz? |
| 20:02.15 | albino | ^Migs^: Next you'll be telling me that linus doesn't know much about kernel development and Stroustrup only came up with the name 'C++' and not the actual language. |
| 20:02.21 | macnewbold | ~give ^Migs^ a goat |
| 20:02.23 | ibot | ACTION gives a goat to ^Migs^ |
| 20:02.59 | ^Migs^ | wow, when did I say that? |
| 20:03.13 | goozbach | ~migs ^Migs^ |
| 20:03.16 | macnewbold | ^Migs^: we at least know he's an expert and has abilities in creating languages, and I'd be willing to bet that he's also very good at programming in ruby |
| 20:03.25 | ^Migs^ | I'll believe it when I see it, macnewbold |
| 20:03.35 | goozbach | heh |
| 20:03.39 | macnewbold | it's very hard to design a good language if you don't know what would improve on what's already there |
| 20:03.42 | goozbach | HAND |
| 20:03.46 | macnewbold | okay, ^Migs^, go and see it then... |
| 20:03.49 | goozbach | YHABT |
| 20:03.52 | macnewbold | then you can believe |
| 20:03.56 | goozbach | ~hand |
| 20:03.57 | ibot | ACTION talk to the hand, goozbach! |
| 20:04.06 | Keighvin | harleypig: There are good and bad points. |
| 20:04.07 | goozbach | ibot: not THAT hand. |
| 20:04.13 | Keighvin | Mostly good, but some pretty severe limitations. |
| 20:04.51 | Keighvin | All data sources have to be predefined and built into a hibernate mapping so they can be picked up and compiled dynamically via the reflection API. |
| 20:05.08 | Keighvin | It makes the velocity engine usage much stronger, but removes the possibility of doing free-form SQL. |
| 20:05.22 | dilvie | anybody want to have a get out the vote calling party? |
| 20:05.23 | dilvie | =) |
| 20:05.29 | dilvie | pizza and drinks... |
| 20:05.38 | Keighvin | Apparently there are some ways of working around those limitations during the segment definitions, but I haven't seen that part of the interface. |
| 20:05.40 | harleypig | don't you meant "get out *and* vote"? |
| 20:05.58 | dilvie | harleypig: no, I mean get out THE vote |
| 20:06.13 | Mister_Ed | vote for? |
| 20:06.18 | dilvie | meaning we call a bunch of people and remind them to vote, and answer questions they might have about issues or candidates |
| 20:06.22 | harleypig | Keighvin: how long does it take to build the mapping? If it can be automated that shouldn't be a big problem. |
| 20:06.30 | harleypig | dilvie: that doesn't make sense |
| 20:06.38 | harleypig | ah |
| 20:06.38 | dilvie | harleypig: why not? |
| 20:06.49 | harleypig | I hadn't read your last msg |
| 20:07.04 | harleypig | It still doesn't make grammatical sense, but I see what yo mean now. |
| 20:07.31 | dilvie | "Get out the vote," sometimes "GOTV," is a term used to describe two categories of political activity, both aimed at increasing the number of votes cast in one or more elections. - Wikipedia |
| 20:08.56 | Mister_Ed | but who's agenda is being pushed with said GOTV? |
| 20:11.51 | dilvie | Mister_Ed: depends on who's making the phonecall. The party is just to encourage participation. I am organizing it, and I have specific views, but the party itself is non partisan. |
| 20:11.58 | harleypig | I know what I want for christmas: http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/electronic/8928/ |
| 20:12.16 | dilvie | Mister_Ed: we're encouraging people to call friends and family and remind them to vote. |
| 20:13.05 | dilvie | we'll have information on all the ballot initiatives (for and against), etc... |
| 20:13.42 | dilvie | so callers can make people aware of what's on the ballot, as well as the over-all political landscape. |
| 20:13.57 | Keighvin | harleypig: Not automated through their tool, but it's automatABLE I suppose. |
| 20:14.05 | Keighvin | More java dev than this shop tends to like though. |
| 20:14.24 | harleypig | ew ... java? Is the tall one pushing for it? |
| 20:16.02 | Mister_Ed | harley: that retro handset is very unnatural without the annoying coiled cord |
| 20:16.16 | harleypig | exactly |
| 20:16.27 | harleypig | what would you think if you saw me talking on it in public? |
| 20:16.28 | dilvie | You guys aware of the Proposition 3 controversy? |
| 20:16.44 | harleypig | somebody propositioned someone for the third time? |
| 20:16.54 | Mister_Ed | lol |
| 20:17.11 | dilvie | Proposition 3 would raise taxes to fund transportation projects. |
| 20:17.14 | Keighvin | Tall one is not too fond of java. |
| 20:17.16 | dilvie | Most of the newspapers are printing pro-prop 3 editorials. |
| 20:17.34 | Jayce^ | harleypig, largely marketing push.. |
| 20:17.53 | Jayce^ | harleypig, this option *appeared* to be one of the few capable of hitting our requirements |
| 20:17.53 | Keighvin | Jayce^, I still haven't gotten that report on my desk. |
| 20:18.03 | harleypig | Keighvin: oh, didn't realize that |
| 20:18.06 | Jayce^ | Keighvin, yeah, and? |
| 20:18.12 | Keighvin | ~lart Jayce^ |
| 20:18.15 | Jayce^ | Keighvin, didn't you get the memo? |
| 20:18.16 | dilvie | There are two serious problems with prop 3, though. First, legislators failed to finalize a list of funding priorities. I don't really care about that, I trust that it will happen in due time, and that they'll make relatively good choices. |
| 20:18.25 | Jayce^ | w00t! DWARVES! |
| 20:18.36 | harleypig | druidic dwarves |
| 20:18.41 | Keighvin | I didn't say it was a TPS report.... |
| 20:18.42 | harleypig | all wanting to *heal* you |
| 20:18.44 | Jayce^ | harleypig, you know it! |
| 20:19.00 | Jayce^ | harleypig, we need a bulb again! |
| 20:19.04 | Jayce^ | ~bulb harleypig |
| 20:19.06 | dilvie | The more serious problem I see is that they're calling for a tax increase after another year of budget increases that outpace Utah's growth and inflation. |
| 20:20.20 | dilvie | The 2006 budget recorded a huge surpluss, and they held a special session to decide what to do with the money.. eventually deciding to provide some tax reforms. It seems to me that one hand of Utah's legislature does not know what the other is doing. |
| 20:20.28 | harleypig | dilvie: you got a link to the actual text? |
| 20:20.31 | dilvie | Calling for tax increases and tax cuts at the same time. |
| 20:20.33 | dilvie | crazy. |
| 20:20.39 | Jayce^ | ~bulb harleypig |
| 20:20.51 | dilvie | harley: 1 minute. |
| 20:21.20 | Jayce^ | ~bulb harleypig |
| 20:21.21 | ibot | "bestows jayce^ with the acclaimed 4-watt bulb of brilliance" |
| 20:21.24 | harleypig | dilvie: as long as you're not talking about the same thing I don't see a problem with cuts here and increases there (the concept anyway) |
| 20:21.29 | harleypig | :D |
| 20:21.30 | Jayce^ | hrm.. |
| 20:21.35 | harleypig | That deserves a bulb |
| 20:21.55 | Jayce^ | why didn't the $who work? |
| 20:21.59 | Jayce^ | ~literal bulb |
| 20:22.01 | ibot | "bulb" is "<say> $who get's the 4-watt bulb of brilliance" |
| 20:22.20 | harleypig | I wonder if we can make ibot remember who had it last and say something like ibot takes the bulb from so-so and gives it to current dim bulb. |
| 20:22.51 | macnewbold | dilvie: in fact, decrease here and increases there (especially they're not on/for the same things or in the same amounts) makes more sense than just saying we're going to take the money from here and use it over there (which is sometimes bad and/or illegal) |
| 20:23.29 | macnewbold | ~bulb Jayce^ |
| 20:23.31 | ibot | "bestows macnewbold with the acclaimed 4-watt bulb of brilliance" |
| 20:23.44 | macnewbold | I think $who is the person doing it, not the victim, |
| 20:23.53 | macnewbold | unless you say ~literal bulb $who |
| 20:24.05 | harleypig | someone point me to a reference for ibot programming? |
| 20:24.36 | dilvie | yes, well, the issue, IMO, is that the legislature planned the budget poorly -- failing to take into account the needed transportation budget. Their poor allocation of existing funds is the cause of the budget surpluss and the unchecked expansion of government spending in Utah. |
| 20:24.54 | harleypig | unchecked? |
| 20:24.59 | dilvie | unchecked. |
| 20:25.05 | harleypig | Can you prove that? |
| 20:25.08 | dilvie | spending outstripping growth |
| 20:25.39 | dilvie | as in, the only way to keep up is to increase taxes, because nobody has the balls to shoot down plans that don't balance the budget. |
| 20:26.37 | dilvie | it's a fact that spending on the state government in Utah is not in-line with Utah's growth and inflation.. meaning that the size, scope, and burden of government is increasing in Utah. |
| 20:26.45 | dilvie | and that's a trend that I'm not inclined to support. |
| 20:28.23 | dilvie | It's also a fact that the legislature arrived at a budget in 2006 that left many programs under-funded, including vital infrastructure like transportation, education, and a program that cares for disabled children, while declaring a huge budget surpluss |
| 20:28.35 | Tene | This is ridiculous |
| 20:28.35 | harleypig | I don't know about that, I would argue that the money is being misspent, but in large part the Utah State Government is conservative. |
| 20:28.49 | Tene | RewriteRule ^w/(.*)$ |
| 20:28.52 | dilvie | they haven't acted fiscally conservative |
| 20:28.57 | Tene | is matching down_r.gif |
| 20:29.01 | dilvie | and the 2006 budget is ample proof. |
| 20:29.54 | dilvie | "Record revenues are pouring into Utah coffers, with the surplus for the budget year that ended June 30 estimated at more than $380 million. Lawmakers meeting in special session recently approved what amounts to a $78 million income tax cut." - Deseret News |
| 20:29.56 | harleypig | Tene: is $1 n_r.gif? |
| 20:30.04 | Tene | Yep. |
| 20:30.18 | harleypig | wierd |
| 20:30.23 | Tene | It even matches ^/w/(.*)$ |
| 20:30.54 | Tene | I've run into this before, but have no idea how to solve it. |
| 20:31.34 | dilvie | that tax cut decreased income taxes, and the prop 3 ballot initiative will increase sales tax... effectively shifting the tax burden per dollar earned from those who can afford it most (middle class and wealthy) to those who can afford it least |
| 20:33.02 | dilvie | I'm all for improved transportation infrastructure in Utah, but the way this is being handled is nearly criminal, IMO. |
| 20:33.34 | dilvie | at the very least, it's disingenuous |
| 20:34.04 | TheDruidXpawX | So what youThey're using a certain amount |
| 20:34.24 | dilvie | TheDruidXpawX: what? |
| 20:34.34 | TheDruidXpawX | So what you're saying is they're using a certain amount of truthyness to get their bill through? |
| 20:34.41 | TheDruidXpawX | Sorry, things got mungerated |
| 20:34.58 | TheDruidXpawX | I couldn't even fix it with the handy bot |
| 20:35.41 | dilvie | What I'm saying is that they are trying to be sneaky about shifting around the tax structure in a way that will be popular with voters. Everybody wants to see improved transportation infrastructure (most are willing to pay for it), and everybody likes hearing about budget surplusses. |
| 20:36.00 | dilvie | They're lying about the budget surplusses. The only reason they exist is because of some very creative legislative accounting. |
| 20:36.08 | TheDruidXpawX | Yup... Truthyness! :D |
| 20:36.17 | dilvie | and if there's a surpluss, there's no need for a tax hike. |
| 20:36.39 | dilvie | they're robbing from the poor and giving to the rich. |
| 20:37.15 | dilvie | and hoping that the poor will smile while they swallow the pill |
| 20:37.42 | dilvie | can you tell I'm a little miffed about it? hehe |
| 20:39.10 | *** part/#utah [phoenyx] (n=tthorley@67-41-227-82.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 20:39.37 | TheDruidXpawX | Ok, so while I appreciate the political news... back to an open source topic? does anyone know of a yum repo that provides a newer rpm for Squid for centos4/rhel4 |
| 20:41.02 | TheDruidXpawX | namely, 2.6 or 3.0? |
| 20:42.41 | TheDruidXpawX | what a way to kill a conversation ;) |
| 20:43.33 | harleypig | It's dead, Jim |
| 20:45.24 | Mister_Ed | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:46.48 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp08.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 20:48.19 | Keighvin | I'm with harleypig, I want an ibot prog ref. |
| 20:49.55 | mheath | wow, unexpected money :) |
| 20:50.12 | graphyx | Mister_Ed: Yeah.. I think everyone who says taxes rob the poor to feed the rich should take a look at their last income tax return and see how much they actually paid in taxes for the previous year. |
| 20:50.18 | mheath | found a paycheck from applebees for before I left for the Marine Corps |
| 20:50.32 | mheath | I thought I had one, but I asked my brother to check when I got back if there was one, and he said no. |
| 20:51.04 | graphyx | Although I would be one of the many that would love to stop contributing to the Social Security Ripe off Scheme and instead put it into my IRA. |
| 20:52.48 | Jayce^ | graphyx, would do the same |
| 20:52.51 | Jayce^ | wish we could |
| 20:54.18 | harleypig | But then all those old farts in congress wouldn't have any petty cash! |
| 20:54.24 | Mister_Ed | SS is a weildly beast she is. Be great to come up with a plan to phase it out and leave it up to individual responsibility for retirement schtuff |
| 20:55.01 | TheDruidXpawX | Anyone have any particular opinion about squid 2.5 vs 2.6? |
| 20:55.17 | ^Migs^ | OMGPETEASHDOWNHASAWIKI |
| 20:56.49 | mheath | ~lart ^Migs^ |
| 20:57.59 | harleypig | wow ... http://www.gay.police.uk/ |
| 20:58.10 | harleypig | It's the official site of the Gay Police Association |
| 20:58.39 | mheath | Yeah, UK government is really OK with that. |
| 20:58.42 | Mister_Ed | harley: are you onthe clock? |
| 20:59.02 | mheath | Thats the reason that everyone jokes about US Navy personnel being gay |
| 20:59.07 | harleypig | Mister_Ed: What? |
| 20:59.19 | mheath | Because it carries over from England where the Navy personnel really does tend to be....yeah. |
| 20:59.28 | Mister_Ed | what made you so bored to vistit a gay police website? |
| 21:00.03 | harleypig | weren't bored ... it was referenced in something else I was reading ... ummm ... I mean ... ummm ... |
| 21:00.04 | graphyx | harleypig: And you were chiding me for viewing boingboing.net yesterday... |
| 21:00.13 | harleypig | huh? |
| 21:00.19 | graphyx | yeah you... |
| 21:00.25 | harleypig | I don't remember chiding anyone fro reading a site ... |
| 21:00.35 | graphyx | heh.. |
| 21:00.44 | graphyx | I'll probably be headed home before you find it though. |
| 21:02.51 | harleypig | nuts ... it was herlo ... and I didn't get a chance to tell him |
| 21:05.02 | harleypig | how do I memo somone on freenode? |
| 21:05.14 | Tene | It looks like forefox was just trying to do some "clever' caching |
| 21:05.38 | Tene | harleypig: /msg memoserv help |
| 21:05.51 | Tene | harleypig: although he's still on the channel... |
| 21:06.05 | Tene | you might want to just /msg herlo |
| 21:08.38 | *** join/#utah stuporglue (n=stuporgl@tmpserver-48-244.et.byu.edu) |
| 21:10.15 | stuporglue | Anyone here know perl? |
| 21:10.20 | Tene | Yes. |
| 21:13.22 | stuporglue | I want to change a letter in the middle of a string, based on the letters index |
| 21:13.23 | stuporglue | something like: $string[n] = x |
| 21:14.01 | stuporglue | but, the syntax $string[n] = "x" isn't working |
| 21:17.12 | Tene | erm... strings aren't arrays. |
| 21:17.39 | Mister_Ed | that looks more like C++ |
| 21:17.40 | stuporglue | I'm seeing that now...Is there a way to access individual chars? |
| 21:18.32 | Tene | what exactly is it you're wanting to do? what's your purpose in doing that? |
| 21:18.38 | Mister_Ed | yes, however I'd have to go look it up... hopefully harly or jayce know it off hand |
| 21:19.09 | stuporglue | I'm trying to swap letters in a word: eg. If I've got the word 'watermellon' and want to swap the second 'l' with the first 'e' so that it becomes 'watlrmeleon' |
| 21:19.51 | Tene | and how are you choosing which letters to change? |
| 21:19.55 | stuporglue | I'm not sure what to look up exactly. I can access an arbitrary letter (to read it) by using substr($string, index, char count),but I can't write to the word |
| 21:20.07 | stuporglue | I'm actually trying to scramble the letters, except the first and last |
| 21:20.57 | stuporglue | mostly just trying to learn perl. The CS 142 kids are doing this in java, and it's taking them a lot of code to get it done. It seemed like something that should be really easy in perl, so I thought I'd try it. |
| 21:23.53 | TheDruidXpawX | For anyone who cares, this isn't a repo, but it does have squid 2.6 rpms for rhel4 so I'd assume they'd just work for cent. http://people.redhat.com/stransky/squid/ |
| 21:24.47 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@adsl-75-0-136-70.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) |
| 21:28.18 | Keighvin | ~clm harleypig |
| 21:28.31 | Keighvin | ~clm |
| 21:28.32 | ibot | ACTION performs a Career Limiting Move on keighvin by enlisting them with the EVIL COMPANY. |
| 21:28.37 | Keighvin | Bugger. |
| 21:28.50 | Keighvin | s/iBot/ibot/ |
| 21:32.55 | Mister_Ed | stuporglue: I am a bit rusty on the process invloved, but I think you can use the split (split //) command on a string in a for or while statement while putting results into an array, then you can minipulate the individual characters, then use join to splice them back together. the exact syntax eludes me though |
| 21:37.45 | stuporglue | I just used @array = split("",$string); and that worked, now I'm playing with the array...I think I almost have it working |
| 21:38.44 | macnewbold | putting them back together is done with join |
| 21:53.24 | TheDruidXpawX | Has anyone in here installed Centos4 on a intel mac mini? |
| 22:03.33 | harleypig | 3 |
| 22:03.40 | harleypig | woops |
| 22:04.28 | scothoser | wrong window, Harley? |
| 22:06.20 | Mister_Ed | Harley just likes to burst in and yell: THREE! kinda like the golf thingy |
| 22:08.02 | jlp_work | stuporglue, you can use substr as an lvalue, you know |
| 22:10.24 | Jayce^ | Mister_Ed, better than the stuff he yells around here.. |
| 22:11.03 | Keighvin | ~clm harleypig |
| 22:11.05 | ibot | ACTION performs a Career Limiting Move on harleypig by enlisting them with the EVIL COMPANY. |
| 22:12.13 | Keighvin | Although I'm not too fond of the ambiguous multiple of using the pronoun "them," though I suppose that is vernacular these days. |
| 22:13.02 | Keighvin | ibot: thank you. |
| 22:13.03 | ibot | bitte, Keighvin |
| 22:13.36 | *** part/#utah ^Migs^ (n=Migs@205.122.50.21) |
| 22:14.38 | Keighvin | lwho |
| 22:14.49 | Keighvin | Bugger that, I just pulled a harleypig |
| 22:15.03 | Keighvin | ~whaleslap redbeard1 |
| 22:15.04 | ibot | ACTION beats redbeard1 upside and over the head with a freakishly huge killer whale named Hugh |
| 22:15.12 | redbeard1 | ~dog Keighvin |
| 22:15.14 | ibot | ACTION stares at Keighvin until Keighvin whimpers and pees all over himself. |
| 22:15.29 | Jayce^ | Keighvin, I dunno what part of harleypig you were pulling on, but I *really* hope it wasn't a finger.. |
| 22:15.34 | Keighvin | ~whalebomb redbeard1 |
| 22:15.35 | ibot | ACTION throws an explosive whale named Gunter at redbeard1 and hides. |
| 22:16.03 | redbeard1 | ~brulee Keighvin |
| 22:16.04 | ibot | ACTION whisks Keighvin with eggs and cream, and bakes at 350F before sprinkling with sugar and torching |
| 22:16.18 | Keighvin | ~whalecrit redbeard1 |
| 22:16.19 | ibot | ACTION crits redbeard1 with a mathematically skilled whale named Isaac for #NaN. redbeard1 dies |
| 22:17.07 | Jayce^ | ~cook redbeard1 and Keighvin |
| 22:17.08 | ibot | ACTION throws redbeard1 and Keighvin in a big pan with veggies inside and cooks redbeard1 and Keighvin on 350 for an hour |
| 22:17.11 | redbeard1 | ~haha Keighvin |
| 22:17.13 | ibot | ACTION beats Keighvin about the head with the ha ha bat |
| 22:17.42 | Keighvin | ~whaleblock Jayce^ |
| 22:17.43 | ibot | ACTION shields Jayce^ with a freakishly huger whale named ollywag |
| 22:18.01 | Keighvin | ~whalecounterattack Jayce^ |
| 22:18.02 | ibot | ACTION responds by unleashing a flurry of blows with a indescribably enormous killer whale named Nathaniel upon Jayce^. |
| 22:18.15 | redbeard1 | ~cluebat Keighvin |
| 22:18.16 | ibot | ACTION pulls out a ClueBat (tm) and thwaps Keighvin. |
| 22:18.44 | Keighvin | ~whaleparry redbeard1 |
| 22:18.46 | ibot | ACTION uses a slightly less-huge but eminently more agile killer whale named Edwardo to parry redbeard1's attacks. |
| 22:19.36 | redbeard1 | where did all these whale attacks come from? |
| 22:19.48 | Jayce^ | Keighvin of course.. |
| 22:20.04 | Jayce^ | he's trying to use hugh, without triggering your pun attacks |
| 22:20.07 | Keighvin | Actually, no - they've been there for some time. |
| 22:20.20 | Keighvin | I found them while digging about in iBot's memory. |
| 22:20.22 | Keighvin | ibot. |
| 22:20.33 | Keighvin | Crap if Apple hasn't ruined the "i" prefix for everything. |
| 22:20.47 | Jayce^ | why do I imagine Keighvin attacking ibot with a #3 scoop |
| 22:21.04 | Keighvin | ~whalecover Apple Corporation |
| 22:21.05 | ibot | ACTION stuffs Apple Corporation in a carcass of a rather immense whale formerly known as Walter |
| 22:21.50 | Keighvin | ~whaleambush me |
| 22:21.51 | ibot | ACTION ambushes keighvin with Giovanni, a whale that's a bit too big to be a dagger |
| 22:25.38 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=xbmodder@69-12-240-206.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 22:28.39 | stuporglue | exit |
| 22:28.41 | harleypig | Hmm ... I should write a random ibot command generator ... |
| 22:30.14 | Keighvin | ~whalefear harleypig |
| 22:30.15 | ibot | ACTION makes a grotesque whale named Marilyn open its mouth. harleypig flees in terror at the sight of Marilyn's poor oral hygeine |
| 22:30.30 | harleypig | must ... bite ... tongue |
| 22:30.43 | Keighvin | Thought you'd like that one. :) |
| 22:31.10 | harleypig | of course, it would be just as true with moral ... |
| 22:33.13 | herlo | harleypig: what are you talking about? I say you mentioned my name above... |
| 22:36.38 | *** part/#utah albino (n=albino@nafpik.com) |
| 22:37.05 | herlo | s/say/saw |
| 22:39.18 | harleypig | herlo: goozbach accused me of givng him a hard time about reading boingboing yesterday. I looked up the logs and it was you. *YOU* man, and *I* get blamed for it. |
| 22:39.36 | herlo | harleypig: haha |
| 22:39.40 | herlo | :-D |
| 22:42.09 | herlo | harleypig: I am not to blame for him forgetting who accused him. Besides boingboing is strange |
| 22:45.03 | Jayce^ | harleypig, not goozbach , graphyx |
| 22:45.18 | *** part/#utah scothoser (n=scothose@wifi-177151.aoce.utah.edu) |
| 22:45.57 | Keighvin | ~blame harleypig |
| 22:46.01 | ibot | ACTION blames harleypig (and Canada) for all the evil in the world |
| 22:52.14 | harleypig | Jayce^: thanks |
| 22:53.20 | harleypig | me and canada, eh? |
| 22:55.05 | Sargun | poken |
| 22:55.20 | Sargun | Give me a cool phone number |
| 22:55.27 | Keighvin | ~harleypig |
| 22:55.30 | ibot | methinks harleypig is learned how to read @ 16:55 on 2006-10-18, or the local RMS figure, or a PITA!. Hagrid's stunt double |
| 22:57.09 | *** join/#utah graphyx (n=graphyx@205.208.245.105) |
| 23:05.51 | *** part/#utah herlo (n=herlo@209.210.254.155) |
| 23:16.28 | mheath | I think amazon.com is broken. |
| 23:16.49 | mheath | Theres a link on IMDB to their site, for "highest VHS sales" |
| 23:17.04 | mheath | But the top of the list is 1. Richard Simmons - Sweatin' to the oldies |
| 23:17.15 | mheath | Then, "Legend of Sleepy Hollow" |
| 23:17.25 | mrpull- | who the hell buys tapes any more? |
| 23:17.32 | mrpull- | the people that buy sweating to the oldies! |
| 23:17.32 | mheath | Something tells me those aren't the best selling VHS tapes on Amazon.com |
| 23:17.42 | mheath | mrpull-: heh, good point. |
| 23:17.50 | mheath | If this is correct, I've lost all faith in civilization |
| 23:18.40 | mheath | You have to go down to 15 to find something that isn't either Richard Simmons or animated |
| 23:18.46 | mheath | and 15 is The Passion of the Christ |
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| 23:53.31 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@adsl-75-0-136-70.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) |
