| 00:11.01 | bonez39 | can linux write to an NTFS formatted drive? |
| 00:11.17 | Tene | Maybe. |
| 00:11.19 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@64.72.210.10) |
| 00:11.24 | levi | I think it can, if you have a new enough kernel. |
| 00:11.39 | Tene | There are several projects, with varying degrees of success. |
| 00:14.15 | bonez39 | levi, mine is 2.6.6 |
| 00:14.30 | Tene | I don't think that's new enough. |
| 00:14.56 | bonez39 | how about if I am booted up with a knoppix cd....and then I want to just copy an entire partition over....to the NTFS USB drive? |
| 00:15.05 | bonez39 | my knoppix disc is 5.x... |
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| 01:01.39 | *** join/#utah graphyx (n=graphyx@205.208.245.105) |
| 01:01.57 | levi_home | Hah, I like this Gilad Bracha guy from Sun. |
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| 01:49.41 | graphyx | Any php gurus? |
| 01:50.03 | macnewbold | sup? |
| 01:50.30 | macnewbold | php trouble? |
| 01:51.04 | maquis_ | why does my cursor keep getting a random line under it? |
| 01:51.12 | maquis_ | and... why do i have a tail? |
| 01:51.30 | graphyx | I thought mormons had horns.. not tails. |
| 01:51.32 | macnewbold | maquis_: when you entered, someone else was using your name |
| 01:51.55 | maquis | macnewbold: yeah... i forgot that i got kicked off last night somehow |
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| 01:54.30 | maquis | the line under my mouse is much more annoying |
| 01:55.59 | graphyx | css gone bad? |
| 01:56.13 | maquis | graphyx: ummm... it's when i'm in the terminal |
| 02:00.43 | redbeard1 | the joys of socket programming |
| 02:00.55 | redbeard1 | i don't suppose goozbach is around at the moment, is he? |
| 02:02.28 | redbeard1 | ~invoke goozbach |
| 02:02.36 | redbeard1 | invoke goozbach |
| 02:02.57 | levi_home | No wonder I like this guy. He was one of the creators of Strongtalk. |
| 02:03.14 | levi_home | And he uses a Mac. |
| 02:03.23 | redbeard1 | levi_home: who is? |
| 02:03.32 | levi_home | Gilad Bracha |
| 02:04.00 | redbeard1 | oh yeah |
| 02:04.04 | redbeard1 | good old... |
| 02:04.08 | redbeard1 | yeah, i don't know him |
| 02:04.11 | levi_home | Heh. |
| 02:05.11 | levi_home | I'm watching some videos from a Microsoft computer language symposium. |
| 02:05.41 | redbeard1 | i'm watching cooking shows. big surprise, eh? |
| 02:05.55 | levi_home | Heh. :) |
| 02:05.55 | *** join/#utah tristanbob_ (i=tristanb@137.190.3.107) |
| 02:07.23 | levi_home | Anyway, he was talking about increasing support for dynamically typed languages on the Java platform. |
| 02:19.41 | bonez39 | macnewbold, maquis do either of you have any experience using testdisk? |
| 02:19.48 | macnewbold | not me |
| 02:19.55 | bonez39 | or redbeard1, levi_home or graphyx ? |
| 02:20.08 | bonez39 | oh well, one can hope........;) |
| 02:20.14 | graphyx | no. |
| 02:20.15 | graphyx | sorry |
| 02:20.24 | bonez39 | 2 down...3 to go |
| 02:21.24 | maquis | bonez39: not sure what it is |
| 02:22.20 | levi_home | Nope, not that I remember. |
| 02:28.09 | bonez39 | maquis, it's a tool to check the structure of a hard drive...... |
| 02:28.29 | bonez39 | 3 down, 2 to go..wait..4...no response from redbeard1 |
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| 02:36.02 | *** join/#utah Tene (n=tene@poipu/supporter/slacker/tene) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
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| 02:36.06 | bonez39 | netsplit? |
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| 02:40.27 | Tene | Yes. |
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| 02:45.08 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=xbmodder@atarack/staff/xbmodder) |
| 02:45.23 | Sargun | hi |
| 02:47.41 | bonez39 | Sargun, howdy |
| 02:53.31 | spr | Anyone here want to help with a regex brain teaser? |
| 02:53.32 | *** join/#utah brando (n=media@beatties.us) |
| 02:53.32 | elg | i might be able to make it worse |
| 02:53.32 | spr | oh boy! |
| 02:53.32 | brando | what's a good window manger (only) that's a little more useful than twm but not much? Just need to tab through windows, no borders, icons, etc. |
| 02:53.32 | spr | I think evilwm does that |
| 02:53.32 | spr | It doesn't get much more lite weight than evil |
| 02:53.32 | maquis | brando: evilwm |
| 02:53.32 | brando | looks good.. 1pixel border is too much.. hope that's configurable. :) |
| 02:53.33 | maquis | brando: check the makefile |
| 02:53.33 | maquis | iirc, it's possible to remove that by setting it to 0px |
| 02:53.33 | maquis | i've kept it at 1 personally because it's nice to see who has focus |
| 02:54.20 | maquis | brando: all configuration is done in the makefile rather than in config files, just so you know |
| 02:54.54 | findlay | highly configurable, etc. |
| 02:55.19 | findlay | although someday I should take a tour through the various WM's |
| 02:57.06 | findlay | maquis: you have to configure it in the Makefile? |
| 03:00.02 | levi_home | findlay: 'cause it's too l33t for conf files. |
| 03:00.25 | graphyx | anyone used horde mail? |
| 03:00.49 | Tene | e! |
| 03:01.44 | elg | spr: too chicken? |
| 03:01.50 | elg | why no borders? |
| 03:03.21 | findlay | levi_home: perhaps, but it sounds quite inflexible |
| 03:03.41 | brando | for a media box.. Running everything fullscreen and alt+tab to switch windows |
| 03:04.39 | Tene | brando: check out ratpoison |
| 03:05.38 | levi_home | findlay: I don't imagine it takes very long to recompile. |
| 03:05.46 | findlay | indeed |
| 03:06.54 | levi_home | Hmm, this one's on Ruby on the CLR. |
| 03:11.16 | elg | brando: and one pixel ruins everything? >:-) |
| 03:12.23 | elg | might look at wmii http://wmii.de/wmii/ or ion |
| 03:12.33 | Tene | ratpoison! |
| 03:13.18 | levi_home | This guy's old-school... he compared Ruby blocks to Algol 68 thunks. |
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| 03:31.07 | spr | elg, to have you make the regex worse? Yeah, not what I'm going for really. |
| 03:31.10 | spr | :) |
| 03:31.32 | elg | you never know, we might get lucky |
| 03:31.42 | spr | Basically: you have a string of two forms: 'Some Text <email@address.com>' or 'email@address.com'. |
| 03:31.58 | spr | The regex needs to capture the email@address.com part in either case. |
| 03:33.03 | spr | I'm thinking this might just have to be done in code with an if the first regex doesn't match. |
| 03:35.30 | levi_home | Wow, Ruby is weird. |
| 03:39.37 | mheath[laptop] | What does everyone think of "Advanced Software Distribution for the GNU Operating System" ("ASD-GNU")? |
| 03:40.06 | mheath[laptop] | (the name, its not something that currently exists so don't bother searching) |
| 03:41.19 | levi_home | Sounds rather bland, but functional. |
| 03:42.45 | mheath[laptop] | That's actually the effect I was going for :) |
| 03:48.39 | elg | I can imagine undersirable pronunciations |
| 03:49.09 | elg | spr: what's hard about it? |
| 03:50.32 | elg | matching the closing >? |
| 03:51.04 | *** part/#utah beandog (n=sdibb@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 03:51.26 | elg | is (match Some Text < here)?(match email@address.com here)(>)? good enough perhaps? |
| 03:51.57 | elg | it would match Some Text <email@address.com and email@address.com> but does that do any harm? |
| 03:52.46 | Tene | (.*)<(.*@.*)> |
| 03:54.04 | levi_home | Huh, Ruby.NET passes all 862 or whatever tests for basic Ruby compatibility. |
| 03:54.25 | Tene | also, check cpan for existing regexes |
| 03:54.35 | macnewbold | if you want to only match valid emails, you'd want to not use . but use character classes that only match valid possibilities |
| 03:55.13 | elg | levi_home: what's weird? |
| 03:55.23 | Tene | http://search.cpan.org/~cwest/Regexp-Common-Email-Address-1.01/lib/Regexp/Common/Email/Address.pm |
| 03:55.29 | elg | levi_home: cool. I've got my eye on jRuby more the Ruby.NET though |
| 03:55.40 | elg | Sun hired the jRuby devs and is throwing its weight behind it |
| 03:56.13 | dilvie | Jonny's on 2nd south and 2nd east |
| 03:56.19 | levi_home | elg: Sun has Gilad Bracha, too. :) |
| 03:56.36 | elg | is that the Ruby.NET guy? |
| 03:56.37 | dilvie | pool, pizza, bar, djs, and a chance to hang out with the infamous dilvie |
| 03:56.40 | dilvie | TONIGHT |
| 03:56.41 | elg | gal? it? |
| 03:56.56 | elg | dilvie: airfare? |
| 03:56.58 | elg | :( |
| 03:57.03 | dilvie | elg: haha, sorry. ); |
| 03:57.03 | levi_home | elg: No, he's one of the guys who wrote Strongtalk, the fastest Smalltalk created. |
| 03:57.19 | elg | ah |
| 03:57.25 | levi_home | elg: And he's working on adding support for dynamic languages to the JVM. |
| 03:57.36 | dilvie | elg: did you see the photos from the week-end parties? |
| 03:57.51 | levi_home | elg: His talk was the first one I listened to tonight. |
| 03:58.02 | elg | yeah, I think sun is pretty serious about dynamic languages in the jvm |
| 03:58.05 | dilvie | http://picasaweb.google.com/dilvie/20060926_Mute_Math |
| 03:58.06 | levi_home | elg: http://www.langnetsymposium.com/speakers.asp |
| 03:58.07 | elg | which I think is thrilling |
| 03:58.11 | dilvie | http://picasaweb.google.com/dilvie/20060929_Halo |
| 03:58.17 | dilvie | http://picasaweb.google.com/dilvie/20060930_Cocktail_Birthday |
| 03:58.27 | dilvie | conservative people might want to avoid those photos |
| 03:58.30 | levi_home | Yeah. Sun owns a LOT of cool implementation technology. |
| 03:58.40 | dilvie | there are girl tongues touching each other! |
| 03:58.42 | dilvie | haha |
| 03:59.36 | levi_home | And they have a lot of smart engineers who did amazing stuff with Smalltalk. |
| 03:59.58 | dilvie | hmm |
| 04:00.07 | dilvie | smalltalk was cool |
| 04:00.15 | elg | yeah, those photos of the green goblin are too liberal for me |
| 04:00.16 | elg | http://picasaweb.google.com/dilvie/20060926_Mute_Math/photo#4980488725819490322 |
| 04:00.49 | dilvie | haha |
| 04:01.05 | levi_home | elg: Anyway, the way this guy presented the way that object methods, object variables, and singleton methods combine seemed pretty crazy. |
| 04:01.25 | dilvie | they're doing unholy things with DRUMSTICKS! -> http://picasaweb.google.com/dilvie/20060926_Mute_Math/photo#4980491732950319122 |
| 04:01.58 | dilvie | I wonder how often they have to replace those kick heads |
| 04:02.07 | elg | dilvie: NO! |
| 04:02.24 | elg | levi_home: do tell, but tell quickly. I'm gonna take off |
| 04:03.14 | levi_home | elg: Methods go on the class, variables on the object, singleton methods go on the object. |
| 04:03.39 | elg | I'm up to my ears in LTI systems, convolution, frequency responses, Z transforms, and the like. I need to sleep on it and do it all again tomorrow. my exam is 7pm to 9pm :( |
| 04:03.42 | levi_home | So you can have two objects of the same class, but with different methods and different variables. :) |
| 04:03.53 | dilvie | shocking! -> http://www.dilvie.com/erics-photos/Favorites/target3.html |
| 04:03.56 | dilvie | eheheh |
| 04:04.06 | levi_home | None of that makes any sense to me. :) |
| 04:04.51 | dilvie | elg: w00t |
| 04:05.13 | dilvie | I've been informed that LTI means Linear/Time Invariant? =) |
| 04:05.24 | elg | levi_home: the sad part is if I do poorly it will almost certainly be due to my underpractised algebra skills compared to the average EE |
| 04:05.25 | dilvie | the rest I understand at least a little. |
| 04:05.28 | levi_home | I love Sriram Krishnamurthi's talks. |
| 04:05.30 | elg | dilvie: yup |
| 04:05.55 | levi_home | elg: CS should make us do more math. :) |
| 04:06.20 | bonez39 | dilvie, what's that on your head? |
| 04:06.33 | bonez39 | in the pics....the album |
| 04:06.54 | dilvie | bonez39: which pic? I'm not in most of those pics. I'm generally the guy taking the photo. |
| 04:07.55 | elg | levi_home: you can have two objects of the same class that have had stuff added/aliased/redefined to just that object |
| 04:08.06 | elg | the (in)famous class << self |
| 04:08.27 | levi_home | Craziness. :) |
| 04:08.54 | elg | beauty :) |
| 04:09.19 | levi_home | Yes, but crazy beauty. :) |
| 04:09.19 | elg | you want an integer that gives you the negative in response to the abs method? you can do it (I think) |
| 04:09.26 | elg | you should be shot, but you can do it. :) |
| 04:09.29 | elg | there are more sane uses |
| 04:11.04 | bonez39 | oh, what's that drummer dude wearing on his head.... |
| 04:11.13 | bonez39 | dang.... |
| 04:11.49 | levi_home | elg: You should listen to the Shriram Krishnamurthi talk on the URL I listed. |
| 04:12.30 | levi_home | elg: And probably the Gilad Bracha, too, but it's not quite as entertaining. |
| 04:14.35 | elg | I'll bookmark it, but might forget it |
| 04:14.54 | levi_home | I'll remind you, then. Unless I forget. :) |
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| 04:56.23 | mheath[laptop] | http://loose-bits.blogspot.com/ |
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| 07:32.09 | Sizaint | oooooo gawd |
| 07:32.15 | Sizaint | im so stoned |
| 07:53.01 | billfur | did someone break gradefix? |
| 07:53.03 | billfur | =( |
| 07:53.10 | billfur | oh, nevermind |
| 07:53.11 | billfur | I'm an idiot |
| 07:53.53 | billfur | cool stuff =) |
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| 13:13.49 | *** topic/#utah by spr -> The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. Read http://plug.org/node/28 . Keep the channel rated H (for harleypig). Tim Riker @ BYU-UUG, 7:30pm Oct. 5th. OALUG InstallFest @ WSU-Davis, October 12th 7:00PM |
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| 13:30.12 | goozbach | harleypig rated?! |
| 13:30.15 | goozbach | oh boy |
| 13:31.19 | elg | -lart goozbach |
| 13:31.45 | goozbach | hah |
| 13:31.52 | goozbach | socket programming in bash? |
| 13:32.03 | goozbach | vs CGI in C? |
| 13:32.04 | goozbach | hmm |
| 13:37.17 | goozbach | cool thing of the week: |
| 13:37.44 | goozbach | in a blackberry... type mynumber<space> and it'll fill your phone number in. |
| 13:38.01 | goozbach | type mydcid<space> and it will fill in your dcid |
| 13:40.08 | graphyx | would that be harleypig rated H as in Hope he has clothes on? |
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| 14:07.40 | *** join/#utah ^Migs^ (n=Migs@205.122.50.21) |
| 14:17.14 | elg | -lart emcnabb |
| 14:17.22 | elg | this article is cool and infuriating |
| 14:17.23 | elg | http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/10/03/musical.robot/index.html |
| 14:18.14 | elg | cool because it's neat. infuriating because these people didn't just sit down and decide to build this thing and come up with it in a month |
| 14:18.19 | elg | or a few years |
| 14:18.47 | elg | there's a LOT of work they are building on. |
| 14:19.26 | elg | they basically built a robot to play the music instead of just sending it out a speaker or MIDI device or something |
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| 14:23.28 | goozbach | elg: why is that infuriating? |
| 14:23.41 | graphyx | Cool concept. |
| 14:23.48 | graphyx | goozbach: I wondered the same thing. |
| 14:26.30 | elg | goozbach: imagine ubuntu going around claiming it's the first operating system to do X or Y (e.g. easy software installation) |
| 14:27.51 | elg | or some company makes a DVR based on Myth and declares itself the first "machine" to do DVR based on linux |
| 14:27.59 | elg | (I'm just making up examples) |
| 14:28.35 | elg | this thing is cool - they've done some good work. but they're not acknowledging the work they're building on and they're whoring credit |
| 14:32.29 | ^Migs^ | uh |
| 14:32.44 | ^Migs^ | it was just a small news article + video. |
| 14:32.55 | ^Migs^ | it's not meant to be comprehensive. I think the work a person builds on is assumed with any invention |
| 14:33.33 | levi | elg: It has been filtered through CNN. It's hard to tell how attention-whoring the researchers themselves are through the default media attention whoring. |
| 14:33.48 | ^Migs^ | elg, you need to calm down. There's no massive conspiracy here. |
| 14:33.49 | elg | yes, I would blame CNN |
| 14:33.54 | elg | but they've got direct quotes in |
| 14:33.59 | *** mode/#utah [+o elg] by ChanServ |
| 14:34.24 | *** kick/#utah [^Migs^!n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net] by elg (conspirator!) |
| 14:34.28 | *** join/#utah ^Migs^ (n=Migs@205.122.50.21) |
| 14:34.28 | levi | Hah. :) |
| 14:34.29 | ^Migs^ | ftw |
| 14:34.39 | elg | oops, you got that backwards |
| 14:34.44 | ^Migs^ | indeed |
| 14:34.51 | ^Migs^ | it was intentional, I assure you |
| 14:35.33 | elg | i'm not saying there's a conspiracy, I'm saying that there's a cocky researcher from MIT at GA Tech |
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| 14:35.50 | elg | it's not news. there's lots of cocky researchers in all fields |
| 14:36.49 | levi | elg: You should take your mind off it by watching Sriram's presentation at that language symposium. :) |
| 14:36.52 | ^Migs^ | I don't see any evidence of cocky researchery |
| 14:37.18 | elg | it's not that the article didn't cite the previous work, I wouldn't expect that from a CNN article |
| 14:37.41 | levi | ^Migs^: You are certainly not as aware of the state of the research in the field as elg is, though. Nor am I. So I suspect we are probably less sensitive to it. |
| 14:39.37 | elg | it's statements like 'attempts to develop a machine that could produce music independent of programmable pieces hadn't been realized.' or '"Computers have been playing music for 50 years," Driscoll said. "But we wanted to create something that didn't just play back what it heard, but play off it, too."' |
| 14:40.02 | elg | those are marginally true when you consider robots |
| 14:40.16 | elg | but computer scientists have been doing both of those things for decades |
| 14:42.44 | ^Migs^ | I think that's a rather unfair judgment to make. I could, for all you know, be very well-informed on the "state of the research", even moreso than elg |
| 14:43.00 | ^Migs^ | perhaps I am |
| 14:43.03 | elg | what's new here is the robot bit, and it's really cool. who knows, they may have done a bit better at the music part than anyone previous too, and that would be cool too |
| 14:43.34 | elg | ^Migs^: and I could be a Navy Seal |
| 14:43.38 | ^Migs^ | are you? |
| 14:43.54 | elg | if I told you that would spoil it |
| 14:43.59 | levi | ^Migs^: And I could be a ninja, with Real Ultimate Power. :P |
| 14:44.04 | ^Migs^ | hahahaha |
| 14:44.08 | ^Migs^ | levi wins |
| 14:44.48 | ^Migs^ | but seriously, I have madd music skillz |
| 14:44.59 | ^Migs^ | or so I claim |
| 14:45.07 | graphyx | does that mean you like to play it really loudly? |
| 14:45.12 | graphyx | and bang a lot? |
| 14:45.29 | elg | i don't doubt you have madd music skillz. we've determined that |
| 14:45.30 | graphyx | or you get hired to play for nazi party get togethers? |
| 14:45.40 | ^Migs^ | do you write music and stuff, elg? |
| 14:45.51 | ^Migs^ | the one thing I'm still trying to learn is how to properly mix music. |
| 14:46.02 | ^Migs^ | and do decent sound recording/editing |
| 14:46.14 | ^Migs^ | all the technology I've used is 10+ years old now |
| 14:46.27 | elg | but I'm guessing you haven't spent a year reading the research journals and searching online and doing academic research in the field of computer music |
| 14:46.38 | ^Migs^ | um |
| 14:46.47 | ^Migs^ | no, only half a year |
| 14:47.19 | ^Migs^ | used to study music theory in college :D Glad I didn't stick with that. |
| 14:47.23 | elg | ah, then maybe we can talk about the paper in last year's CMJ about beat tracking based on harmonics |
| 14:47.35 | ^Migs^ | nope, not familiar with that paper |
| 14:47.56 | ^Migs^ | do you have a link to it, though>? |
| 14:48.15 | elg | i have a link to a summary paper on beat tracking, jas |
| 14:49.45 | elg | http://www-scf.usc.edu/~ise575/a/presentations/5.3-shiu.pdf#search=%22rhythm%20description%20systems%20dixon%20gouyon%22 |
| 14:50.09 | elg | s/summary/survey/ |
| 14:50.16 | ^Migs^ | sweet, thanks! |
| 14:51.09 | ^Migs^ | elg: What are some of the better recent apps out there for computer music? |
| 14:51.21 | elg | well, what do you want to do, exactly? |
| 14:52.43 | Jayce^ | oooh, elg, you probably don't read penny-arcade do you? |
| 14:52.44 | ^Migs^ | I have a digital piano, and I want to record and compose some orchestrations. I used to use an old, old program called Rhapsody to do that, and I rather liked the staff-based format it presented. I probably got a little more used to that than I should have, because I tried using stuff like Cubase and find it complicated. There's also Finale, which I'd like to get sometime and learn, but that's more for presenting music, not for actually playing back, afaik. |
| 14:52.51 | Jayce^ | http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic |
| 14:52.52 | elg | Jayce^: nope |
| 14:53.01 | ^Migs^ | everybody should read penny arcade |
| 14:53.07 | Jayce^ | great one today going with yesterday's zune comments |
| 14:53.15 | Jayce^ | no, many people should not read it most of the time.. |
| 14:53.35 | graphyx | that's amuzing. |
| 14:53.53 | elg | Jayce^: :) |
| 14:54.13 | ^Migs^ | I just want to know what I need to get (both hardware and software) to produce professional-quality recordings |
| 14:54.25 | ^Migs^ | and spice it up a little with added instrumentation |
| 14:54.34 | elg | ^Migs^: in linux, look at rosegarden and muse. I don't know all the offerings in windows but finale and cubase come to mind. I haven't tried cubase and I can't stand finale |
| 14:55.00 | ^Migs^ | yeah, I tried finale demo before (or maybe it was at school), and I found it bloated |
| 14:55.08 | elg | rosegarden has a score-based editor |
| 14:55.12 | ^Migs^ | I'll check those out, though, thanks! |
| 14:55.41 | elg | for actual recording of audio, ardour is king of free software |
| 14:55.47 | elg | not on windows yet, but we're working on it |
| 14:56.01 | elg | there's lots of really expensive DAWs for windows, too |
| 14:56.03 | ^Migs^ | better than Audacity? |
| 14:56.36 | graphyx | do you have the audacity to ask that? j/k. |
| 14:56.42 | ^Migs^ | who's "we?" |
| 14:56.45 | elg | bigger than audacity. whether it's better depends on what you're doing. Like comparing wordpad with Word, or markdown with latex |
| 14:56.53 | ^Migs^ | are you biased because you're part of the project team or something? |
| 14:57.16 | elg | audacity is better for casual users wanting to edit a wave file or do basic recording |
| 14:57.29 | elg | ardour is a full-fledged DAW |
| 14:57.31 | elg | yes, I'm an ardour dev |
| 14:57.34 | ^Migs^ | hehe |
| 14:57.41 | elg | recent recruit |
| 14:57.42 | ^Migs^ | it does look pretty sweet, I'm downloading it |
| 14:59.12 | elg | if you have any questions let me know. |
| 14:59.30 | elg | here's another of the many beat-tracking papers |
| 14:59.31 | elg | http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/sethares05beat.html |
| 15:03.18 | levi | Sriram's flapjax stuff looks really cool. |
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| 15:10.24 | goozbach | ok tell me if I'm up in the night. |
| 15:10.38 | goozbach | I want to make a "dhcp proxy" |
| 15:10.49 | goozbach | put a linux dhcp server in front of a winows dhcp server |
| 15:11.01 | goozbach | all the leases would come from the windows server |
| 15:11.27 | goozbach | but per-vendor id settings would come from the linux dhcpd server |
| 15:11.30 | goozbach | is that possible? |
| 15:11.37 | goozbach | or am I smoking dope? |
| 15:16.17 | emcnabb | you've been smoking dope for years |
| 15:17.25 | goozbach | in relation to my question. |
| 15:17.51 | levi | goozbach: You ought to be able to do that, but it may not necessarily be easy. |
| 15:19.04 | mrpull | goozbach: are you making things more complicated than needed? what cant the windows DHCP server do that makes you want to use a linux supplement? |
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| 15:23.17 | elg | goozbach: I know you can set up a proxy, but I don't know about modifying the id settings |
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| 15:26.14 | levi | A possible setup: Make the linux box a router to the Windows box. NAT dhcp traffic to the windows box, and discard dhcp traffic from the windows box, but also capture it and use the info to build a new dhcp packet sent from the Linux box with the changes you want. |
| 15:26.52 | levi | DHCP packets are pretty simple, and there's a decent perl module for parsing and building them. |
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| 15:28.56 | levi | Hrm, apparently Sriram's flapjax stuff hasn't been released yet. :/ |
| 15:36.34 | goozbach | mrpull: class based dhcp responses aparently |
| 15:37.06 | mrpull | goozbach: what sorta class? I don't follow. |
| 15:38.17 | goozbach | mrpull: per-client settings |
| 15:38.34 | goozbach | a pump (anaconda) dhcp request gets one dhcp response |
| 15:38.47 | goozbach | a windows dhcp request another |
| 15:38.54 | goozbach | a network card yet another |
| 15:38.59 | graphyx | why not just have the linux box do ip masqueraiding. |
| 15:39.04 | goozbach | and so on |
| 15:39.05 | graphyx | And forgo the entire windows dns? |
| 15:39.22 | goozbach | graphyx: polotical reasons |
| 15:39.23 | mrpull | sounds like separate subnets might be the cure |
| 15:39.28 | graphyx | ok |
| 15:39.31 | graphyx | fair enough. |
| 15:39.31 | goozbach | mrpull: nope |
| 15:39.51 | goozbach | I have to be able to put IP phones and desktops on the same subnet |
| 15:40.04 | goozbach | and have the ip phones get one setting for tftp server |
| 15:40.08 | goozbach | and the desktops another |
| 15:40.12 | graphyx | just put up a cisco switch and do vlan based on IP. |
| 15:40.40 | graphyx | and you can still have the phones route the packets for the computer, but the are on different vlan.s |
| 15:40.56 | macnewbold | would configuring dhcpd to hand back the responses you want to each device solve the problem? |
| 15:40.58 | levi | It's hard to believe that the windows DHCP server doesn't have the capability to do that by itself. |
| 15:41.09 | goozbach | levi: I just discovered that it MIGHT |
| 15:41.16 | goozbach | off to the test lab! |
| 15:41.23 | levi | That's pretty basic stuff. |
| 15:42.03 | ^Migs^ | http://sites.gizoogle.com/index2.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oalug.com |
| 15:42.22 | mrpull | goozbach: the windows dhcp server can specify tftp servers |
| 15:42.43 | mrpull | and do DHCP reservations |
| 15:44.20 | goozbach | mrpull: dhcp reservations, I knew |
| 15:44.27 | goozbach | tftp servers I knew |
| 15:44.48 | goozbach | however I didn't know that it could vary them based upon the client's vendor class |
| 15:45.29 | mrpull | ah. |
| 15:46.13 | elg | goozbach: and you can't do these things with a linux dhcp server? |
| 15:46.30 | elg | I thought you could do class and client id things with dhcpd |
| 15:46.31 | goozbach | elg: I CAN |
| 15:46.36 | goozbach | that's the problem |
| 15:46.44 | goozbach | I cannot replace the windows dhcp servers |
| 15:46.49 | goozbach | (politcs) |
| 15:47.26 | elg | oh |
| 15:47.33 | levi | Considering that Microsoft created DHCP, I find it unlikely that a feature exists that the Windows DHCP server cannot take advantage of. |
| 15:47.39 | elg | hm. can you "supplement" the windows servers? |
| 15:48.07 | levi | Although I suppose it's possible, since DHCP has changed a bit since its introduction. |
| 15:48.38 | elg | goozbach: I'm betting you could do it with enough money. maybe politics will dissolve in the face of money concernt |
| 15:49.10 | mrpull | you can create vendor classes in windows dhcp |
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| 15:51.31 | maquis | there was an email on the linux mailing list at work with subject line: "delicious candy for whoever can solve this problem" |
| 15:51.43 | goozbach | so I need to be able to get the lease from the win server and the tftp settings from the linux server |
| 15:52.26 | levi | Mmm, delicious candy. |
| 15:52.43 | goozbach | mrpull: just saw that |
| 15:53.00 | elg | maquis: did you win? |
| 15:56.45 | graphyx | What was the problem? |
| 15:56.55 | graphyx | Sounds suspiciously like solving the problem isn't going to be easy. |
| 15:57.42 | elg | or maybe the candy won't be that delicious |
| 15:59.40 | ^Migs^ | http://sites.gizoogle.com/index2.php?url=http://showcase.netins.net/web/creative/lincoln/speeches/gettysburg.htm |
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| 16:03.45 | Cleetus | -lart ibot |
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| 16:06.09 | rsimpkins | levi: Microsoft created DHCP? What was the role of the IETF? Was the "Dynamic Host Configuration Working Group" chaird by MS or soemthing? I can't find a good history. |
| 16:06.41 | levi | rsimpkins: I believe that Microsoft paid the engineers that worked with the IETF to standardize it. |
| 16:06.53 | levi | rsimpkins: I don't remember all the details, though. |
| 16:07.02 | mheath[laptop] | http://loose-bits.blogspot.com |
| 16:07.06 | mheath[laptop] | Comments/suggestions appreciated |
| 16:07.23 | mheath[laptop] | Except from levi, I'll know what you'll say ;-) |
| 16:07.42 | rsimpkins | levi: Do you know what the first RFC is on it? |
| 16:07.51 | levi | Well, at least you're not using HURD this time. ;) |
| 16:08.37 | mheath[laptop] | levi: That's the eventual goal |
| 16:09.12 | maquis | elg: not sure yet |
| 16:09.14 | maquis | i entered |
| 16:09.18 | maquis | i think i won, though |
| 16:09.35 | maquis | it was an issue that i ran into last week, and resolved on my machine |
| 16:09.51 | levi | rsimpkins: 1531, apparently. |
| 16:10.25 | findlay | that's when DHCO was invented? |
| 16:10.30 | *** join/#utah SB1-Work (n=kylesb@about/pxe/ScytheBlade1) |
| 16:10.34 | findlay | s/O/P/ |
| 16:11.03 | elg | mheath[laptop]: you should place its raison d'etre prominently |
| 16:12.15 | mheath[laptop] | I speak English, in which case the word "purpose" is adequately sufficient, but thanks :) |
| 16:12.44 | elg | purpose doesn't convey the meaning i wanted to convey |
| 16:13.16 | SB1-Work | All right. I need to start (and this time successfully finish) an epic quest: install a mail server + spam filter under linux. |
| 16:13.53 | SB1-Work | Ten points to the first person to recommend to me a mail server to start with! |
| 16:14.14 | mheath[laptop] | SB1-Work, postfix |
| 16:14.27 | elg | postfix |
| 16:14.37 | SB1-Work | All right then |
| 16:14.43 | SB1-Work | Now to install it and *get it working* |
| 16:16.10 | elg | good goal |
| 16:16.25 | SB1-Work | About the fourth time I've tried. |
| 16:16.37 | SB1-Work | I need to for work now (*points to nick*) |
| 16:16.44 | SB1-Work | As XMail, which I resorted to for my home e-mail |
| 16:16.48 | SB1-Work | I don't think will cut it |
| 16:18.06 | elg | we'll be rooting for you |
| 16:18.42 | elg | except emcnabb. he's secretly hoping to take over the world and your mail server doesn't fit into his plans |
| 16:18.48 | levi | I can't find any references about Microsoft's involvement in the development of DHCP, but it's what I remember and I heard it recently from a networking class as well. |
| 16:19.06 | findlay | postfix@! |
| 16:19.32 | findlay | how many points do I get? |
| 16:21.25 | SB1-Work | Uhh |
| 16:21.26 | SB1-Work | Four |
| 16:21.53 | SB1-Work | That said, I've got two real requirements for postfix |
| 16:22.11 | SB1-Work | 1) Hosted on two servers in two buildings on two different T1 lines/IPs |
| 16:22.37 | SB1-Work | Both need to be used concurrently, but likewise, if a mail it sent to A, and a user checks B, it needs to just plain work |
| 16:22.44 | SB1-Work | I take it that should be solved with... NFS? |
| 16:22.59 | macnewbold | why not just set them both up as MXs? |
| 16:23.08 | SB1-Work | They will be |
| 16:23.16 | SB1-Work | Two MX records in the DNS |
| 16:23.25 | SB1-Work | But if a mail is set to A, and a user checks their account on B |
| 16:23.27 | SB1-Work | That won't work ;) |
| 16:24.33 | macnewbold | for wide area, take a look at SFS perhaps |
| 16:24.35 | macnewbold | much more secure |
| 16:24.53 | mrpull | SB1-Work: sounds like you should take things one step at a time :) |
| 16:25.42 | macnewbold | or at the very least, do NFS over TCP through an SSH tunnel. But the performance might stink |
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| 16:26.01 | SB1-Work | Oh, heh, one little detail |
| 16:26.03 | macnewbold | the other problem is that if either one is down, especially the one with the file server, then you're out of luck |
| 16:26.06 | SB1-Work | I have a point to point T1 line between the buildings |
| 16:26.09 | macnewbold | ah |
| 16:26.14 | macnewbold | yeah, major detail |
| 16:26.22 | SB1-Work | Yeah, that helps the situation a TON :) |
| 16:26.22 | macnewbold | so security isn't an issue |
| 16:26.24 | SB1-Work | No |
| 16:26.26 | SB1-Work | Not at all |
| 16:26.30 | macnewbold | downtime might still be a problem |
| 16:26.33 | SB1-Work | I can ping that private subnet |
| 16:26.36 | SB1-Work | And vice-versa |
| 16:27.09 | SB1-Work | If I *really* wanted privacy, I'd IPSEC that T1, but I don't care that much |
| 16:27.20 | macnewbold | if the link between them goes down, you're going to have problems, probably so bad that even an MX that can still get to the internet won't be any good cause it can't get to its filestore |
| 16:27.36 | macnewbold | and everything _hangs_ waiting for the NFS server to come back |
| 16:27.41 | SB1-Work | Yeah... |
| 16:27.56 | SB1-Work | Still better off than using the general internet though ;) |
| 16:27.58 | macnewbold | but that might be the best you can do - a shared file system |
| 16:28.14 | SB1-Work | mmkay |
| 16:28.16 | macnewbold | make sure it supports file locking, so your two mali servers and the mail clients don't stomp on each others updates |
| 16:28.22 | SB1-Work | Yup |
| 16:28.27 | macnewbold | ah |
| 16:28.32 | SB1-Work | Which leads to my second requirement |
| 16:28.45 | macnewbold | or store the emails in a database, like MYSQL, and replicate/cluster a db server at each location |
| 16:28.54 | SB1-Work | This is a windows shop with linux boxes making the network/internet/routing happy ;) |
| 16:29.07 | macnewbold | as long as you can run the mail on linux servers, |
| 16:29.08 | macnewbold | you'll be fine |
| 16:29.11 | SB1-Work | I need to get user auth for a domain out of Active Directory's LDAP |
| 16:29.16 | SB1-Work | :) |
| 16:29.19 | macnewbold | the windows mail clients just talk imap/pop to the mail server |
| 16:29.24 | macnewbold | and linux mailservers do fine with ldap |
| 16:29.27 | mrpull | SB1-Work: why not use exchange? |
| 16:29.29 | SB1-Work | I don't want to maintain six different logins for one person :) |
| 16:29.42 | SB1-Work | mrpull, pass me the money... and new hardware to run that |
| 16:29.47 | macnewbold | auth is an issue with imap/pop mostly, not sendmail, |
| 16:29.54 | macnewbold | s/sendmail/postfix/ |
| 16:30.08 | macnewbold | but postfix will need to know about all the users and how to handle them |
| 16:30.17 | SB1-Work | Right. But the user accounts need to be stored in the LDAP, same with the password |
| 16:30.20 | macnewbold | but I think it should support LDAP for that, but I wouldn't know |
| 16:30.23 | SB1-Work | k |
| 16:30.30 | SB1-Work | It'll be a fun time if nothing else |
| 16:30.31 | mrpull | dang... i'm the MS defender this morning... but Exchange might really cost less in the long run if you consider it is fairly turnkey and you don't even have a plan for your FLOSS setup |
| 16:30.53 | macnewbold | mrpull: the cost of the unreliability knocks exchange out of the competition :) |
| 16:30.54 | SB1-Work | mrpull, I'm the one running three copies of Server 2003, and one of SQL2005 |
| 16:31.01 | macnewbold | eww |
| 16:31.02 | macnewbold | I'm sorry |
| 16:31.16 | SB1-Work | For a windows shop (software vendor locked)? I wouldn't want anything else |
| 16:31.21 | SB1-Work | Hands down, no exceptions, period |
| 16:31.27 | SB1-Work | It is *the* way to go for a windows shop |
| 16:32.34 | SB1-Work | mrpull, the only real objection I have to exchange, is that I'd be running active directory + SQL2005 + Exchange + 70GB of networked files that users work with |
| 16:32.36 | SB1-Work | On every server |
| 16:32.39 | SB1-Work | ... which I don't want |
| 16:33.25 | mrpull | AD replication, DFS, and MS SQL replication are a cinch |
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| 16:33.36 | SB1-Work | We spent $6k for four servers, two servers per site |
| 16:34.00 | SB1-Work | I'm looking to upgrade to R2 so I can get off DFS and start using DFS-R |
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| 16:34.39 | SB1-Work | The hardware isn't crap by any means, but I didn't point to the high high end stuff either |
| 16:34.57 | SB1-Work | It's small business.. we don't have that kind of cash sitting around :) |
| 16:34.58 | mrpull | dfs-r should be nice. |
| 16:35.04 | levi | Stupid google books. Display my sample page already! |
| 16:35.13 | SB1-Work | It's *very* nice... I've hit the limits of DFS as-is |
| 16:35.23 | SB1-Work | Hard to replicate the changes of 70GB of data with it |
| 16:35.35 | SB1-Work | Especially when maybe 500MB changes an hour |
| 16:35.58 | goozbach | herlo: ping |
| 16:36.32 | mrpull | that'll tie up the entire T1 |
| 16:36.38 | findlay | ~dfs |
| 16:36.48 | SB1-Work | And it does commonly. |
| 16:36.55 | SB1-Work | Better than tieing up the entire internet pipe though |
| 16:37.01 | mrpull | have you looked at the new metro ethernet options (like Qwest |
| 16:37.06 | mrpull | 's QMOE) |
| 16:37.20 | SB1-Work | Can't say I have |
| 16:37.30 | SB1-Work | We're with Integra, getting a P2P T1 line for $75/month |
| 16:37.47 | mrpull | well... it wont beat 75/month |
| 16:38.03 | SB1-Work | Estimate? |
| 16:38.09 | mrpull | but for a several hundred a month you can get 10mbps |
| 16:38.14 | SB1-Work | Not interested |
| 16:38.34 | mrpull | and for not much more you can push it to 100 Mbps all the way up to Gig |
| 16:38.35 | SB1-Work | s/Not interested/Interested, but about 6x to 15x too much/ |
| 16:38.58 | SB1-Work | Again, small business. Don't have that cash floating around |
| 16:39.09 | SB1-Work | It's a balancing act with this place :P |
| 16:39.17 | mrpull | i've been there |
| 16:40.45 | SB1-Work | I'm thinking replicated MySQL for storage is the way to go for postfix |
| 16:40.59 | SB1-Work | And LDAP (windows replicated) for auth |
| 16:41.33 | macnewbold | I think mysql would have graceful ways of handling disconnections, too, and either MX would have the db if anything disconnected between them |
| 16:41.45 | SB1-Work | It kinda does, kinda doesn't |
| 16:41.53 | SB1-Work | But it'd be much better off than NFS, hands down |
| 16:42.29 | macnewbold | agreed |
| 16:42.33 | elg | SB1-Work: I've skimmed what's been said and dI have to take off |
| 16:42.43 | SB1-Work | elg, good idea/bad idea? |
| 16:42.56 | elg | just let me say - think real hard about whether you need your mail _retrieval_ distributed, and realize that that has nothing to do with postfix |
| 16:43.06 | elg | and don't use nfs |
| 16:43.07 | elg | gaga |
| 16:43.10 | elg | er, gag |
| 16:43.19 | SB1-Work | Yeah, NFS would be bad when a database is an option |
| 16:43.31 | SB1-Work | And yes, retreival needs to be distributed |
| 16:43.39 | SB1-Work | People check their mail every ten minutes or more |
| 16:43.46 | elg | how many people do you have? |
| 16:43.52 | SB1-Work | 40ish, growing |
| 16:44.02 | macnewbold | how is that distributed between the two places? |
| 16:44.05 | elg | you don't need it distributed. not yet anyhow |
| 16:44.16 | SB1-Work | If one site goes down |
| 16:44.17 | elg | you can distribute your imap servers later |
| 16:44.22 | elg | get mail first. :) |
| 16:44.24 | SB1-Work | Mail needs to keep going in, period |
| 16:44.27 | SB1-Work | haha, good point |
| 16:44.35 | mrpull | either linux magazine or linux journal had a good article about how a big university used postfix + openldap to create an HA mail system for their students |
| 16:44.53 | mrpull | unfortunately I cant remember which magazine or which school... anybody else read it? |
| 16:44.58 | SB1-Work | Can't say I have |
| 16:45.07 | SB1-Work | and I'm looking for good docs on the matter now :) |
| 16:45.16 | elg | redundant SMTP is a far and away different thing than redundant IMAP/POP |
| 16:45.22 | elg | the former is easier than easy |
| 16:45.24 | elg | the latter is hard |
| 16:45.28 | SB1-Work | Indeed |
| 16:45.31 | maquis | there's a book coming out tomorrow that sounds like it'd be an interesting one in relation to open-source development |
| 16:45.41 | SB1-Work | MX records and it's done |
| 16:45.47 | elg | linuxjournal |
| 16:45.47 | SB1-Work | retreival.. that's another story |
| 16:45.54 | elg | I skimmed it |
| 16:45.57 | maquis | ot |
| 16:45.58 | maquis | s ca;;ed |
| 16:46.00 | maquis | er |
| 16:46.07 | maquis | it's called "the starfish and the spider" |
| 16:46.09 | levi | Aha. Microsoft owns the patent on DHCP, number 6101499 |
| 16:46.54 | mrpull | i think this is it! http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7323 |
| 16:46.55 | SB1-Work | Ack |
| 16:47.00 | [phoenyx] | syn |
| 16:47.01 | SB1-Work | Gonna be extending the MS AD schema for this.. |
| 16:47.20 | SB1-Work | lol |
| 16:47.24 | SB1-Work | Well played |
| 16:47.34 | SB1-Work | Backwards, but well played |
| 16:47.43 | [phoenyx] | true |
| 16:48.12 | levi | Actually, maybe this patent is for something else. |
| 16:48.50 | mrpull | SB1-Work: but it relies on a shared san for storage... given your financial restraints a replicated SAN is probably not realistic :) |
| 16:49.32 | SB1-Work | haha |
| 16:49.35 | SB1-Work | No, no it is not |
| 16:49.51 | SB1-Work | I'm thinking that replicated MySQL is what to do |
| 16:50.09 | SB1-Work | I wonder about the postfix schema though.. very very few apps are written correctly to handle replication correctly |
| 16:50.22 | macnewbold | to do redundant SMTP to the same inbox, you still need shared/distributed storage for incoming mail in addition to the two mx records |
| 16:50.37 | levi | Yeah, this patent is for generating the magic IP addresses that Windows sets if you don't have a DHCP server. |
| 16:51.16 | macnewbold | hm, let's see... subnet=169.*.*.*, IP = 169.rand().rand().rand() |
| 16:52.50 | SB1-Work | macnewbold, yup. Which is why I'm shooting for distributed retreival. It's gonna happen regardless. |
| 16:53.56 | macnewbold | if you've got shared storage, then you just run imap/pop servers on both ends, and as long as the storage works, you've got distributed mail retrieval, right? |
| 16:53.56 | SB1-Work | macnewbold, the emails consist of two things: one, four sentences of text, or two, a 10MB .pdf attachment |
| 16:54.11 | SB1-Work | macnewbold, I don't want people pulling 10MB every 10 minutes over the P2P |
| 16:54.12 | macnewbold | great. what kind of business is it? printing company or something? |
| 16:54.14 | SB1-Work | End of story |
| 16:54.15 | SB1-Work | Legal |
| 16:54.19 | macnewbold | ah |
| 16:54.40 | SB1-Work | And yeah, as far as I know (and I'll likely be wrong in the long run), that's all it takes |
| 16:54.54 | SB1-Work | Just a matter of making sure that the postfix people setup their database correctly for replication |
| 16:55.01 | SB1-Work | autonumbers colliding is a very nasty thing |
| 16:55.06 | macnewbold | well, you still will have that problem in a way... the mail will come into either end, then be saved both locally and on the other end of the p2p line, |
| 16:55.14 | macnewbold | but at least it won't have to be retrieved across it again |
| 16:55.24 | SB1-Work | True |
| 16:55.29 | SB1-Work | And that's exactly why I need it replicated |
| 16:55.38 | SB1-Work | If may happen once, but that's all I want it to happen |
| 16:56.02 | SB1-Work | And either way, it's better than our current solution (hosted at Integra, destroying all of the bandwidth) |
| 16:56.16 | *** part/#utah linuxalien (i=linuxali@gateway/tor/x-16839b0d58e0d59a) |
| 16:56.45 | graphyx | hey macnewbold I got a netcat freebsd version. |
| 16:56.51 | graphyx | But the boss said, that's good enough.. |
| 16:56.52 | SB1-Work | Likewise, because I have DNS deployed, I can just do some fun DNS hacking |
| 16:56.54 | graphyx | so I don't get to use it. |
| 16:57.14 | SB1-Work | And enforce people to check their local server via DNS lookups, without changing any of the clients |
| 16:57.40 | SB1-Work | (I setup DNS for the clients correctly in the first place, luckily) |
| 16:58.18 | macnewbold | graphyx: sweet! |
| 16:58.20 | macnewbold | hehe |
| 16:58.23 | macnewbold | fun job |
| 16:58.27 | graphyx | Yeah. |
| 16:58.41 | graphyx | So I just get to finish up all those other things on the report and send it in. |
| 16:58.45 | SB1-Work | "The file /etc/postfix/mysql-aliases.cf specifies lots of information telling Postfix how to reference the mysql database. For a complete description, see the mysql_table(5) manual page." |
| 16:58.53 | SB1-Work | Awesome, I can make the database correctly myself |
| 16:58.56 | SB1-Work | I'm happy now |
| 17:03.06 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp09.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 17:03.36 | elg | the thing is, to distribute retrieval you're either looking at replication or a common file store |
| 17:03.52 | elg | and you might as well rely on one server as use a network filesystem |
| 17:04.09 | SB1-Work | You are |
| 17:04.19 | SB1-Work | And I'm looking at MySQL replication |
| 17:04.34 | SB1-Work | Which I've done before, and apparently, get to design the table structure for it too |
| 17:04.44 | SB1-Work | So I can do it properly for replication also |
| 17:04.50 | elg | i still think you're going overboard at this stage |
| 17:05.05 | SB1-Work | Kinda. You'd have to know the work and the people |
| 17:05.19 | SB1-Work | Two types of e-mail here: four lines of text, and 10MB pdfs |
| 17:05.22 | elg | we had a company of ~300 across the world (about 200 at the local campus) and one beefy NOTES server was enough |
| 17:05.32 | wps | a job description includes the following: |
| 17:05.34 | wps | "Our application allows for considerable freedom in UE design and is not constrained to typical "CE-like" interfaces." |
| 17:05.35 | elg | and notes is much more resource intensive than regular old IMAP or POP3 |
| 17:05.39 | wps | Does that mean anything to anyone? |
| 17:05.50 | macnewbold | ~ue |
| 17:05.55 | elg | wps: it means they know a couple of buzzwords |
| 17:05.55 | macnewbold | ~ce |
| 17:05.57 | ibot | it has been said that ce is still on it |
| 17:06.00 | SB1-Work | UE = User Experience, CE = probably windows CE |
| 17:06.10 | SB1-Work | Looks like embedded dev |
| 17:06.13 | SB1-Work | kinda anyways |
| 17:06.58 | elg | 10mb pdfs over a T1 - a second or two |
| 17:06.58 | SB1-Work | as embedded as windows CE is |
| 17:06.58 | elg | IMAP only does headers until you ask for the whole message. I don't see the problem |
| 17:06.59 | *** join/#utah Keighvin (n=ptomlins@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 17:06.59 | wps | thanks |
| 17:06.59 | SB1-Work | elg, now multiply that by 25 people a building every ten minutes, in addition to other internet usage |
| 17:06.59 | SB1-Work | That's why I want to move it local :) |
| 17:06.59 | elg | a drop in the bucket |
| 17:07.05 | elg | oh yeah, definitely want it on your own server |
| 17:07.16 | SB1-Work | Right. Likewise, if one T1 goes out |
| 17:07.21 | SB1-Work | It *needs* redundancy |
| 17:07.23 | elg | but I think one is probably good enough |
| 17:07.28 | SB1-Work | e-mail is how work is *done* here |
| 17:07.31 | SB1-Work | And one isn't good enough :( |
| 17:07.37 | elg | I don't believe you |
| 17:07.45 | elg | how is it going to be any more redundant? |
| 17:07.53 | SB1-Work | Even when we ran that ArGoSoft e-mail server, that server had dual NICs and two pathways to the server |
| 17:07.59 | SB1-Work | One isn't good enough, two is |
| 17:08.05 | elg | if the T1 goes out you still lose your network file storage. now you have 2 broken mailservers |
| 17:08.13 | elg | which is the same as one broken mailserver serving everyone |
| 17:08.26 | SB1-Work | Note that we have 3 T1 lines: two to the internet, one point to point |
| 17:08.58 | SB1-Work | I'm thinking this: all mail goes in via public T1 lines, replicated as MySQL data across point to point, users check their local server via proper DNS lookups (which is already done) |
| 17:09.12 | SB1-Work | If a public T1 goes down, cool, have another, mail keeps coming |
| 17:09.29 | SB1-Work | If the point to point goes down, cool, I know how to design a database to deal with it |
| 17:09.32 | elg | you'r thinking like a web developer |
| 17:09.44 | SB1-Work | Well, guilty as charged |
| 17:10.27 | elg | I'm not saying don't do it, I'm saying set up a single mailserver first. then set up a secondary mail server at the other location. make them both MX. see if it's not good enough |
| 17:10.32 | elg | if it's not, _then_ worry about it |
| 17:10.44 | SB1-Work | Yeah, of course |
| 17:10.52 | SB1-Work | I've yet to get a single linux mail server working as I want it to :P |
| 17:11.00 | SB1-Work | So most of the is speculation/planning ;) |
| 17:11.02 | macnewbold | but they'll need shared storage, elg, no? |
| 17:11.05 | elg | I'm betting it will be, you're betting it won't. I'm interested how it plays out. if I'm wrong, you can have emcnabb's steak for a week |
| 17:11.12 | SB1-Work | lol awesome |
| 17:11.39 | elg | macnewbold: if he sets it up the way I described, he's got one IMAP server |
| 17:11.43 | elg | the other smtp is just secondary |
| 17:11.53 | elg | and forwards the mail to the primary when it can |
| 17:12.03 | macnewbold | ah, okay, just handling it via SMTP |
| 17:12.04 | elg | he could also set each one up as its own primary for a subdomain |
| 17:12.11 | SB1-Work | I'm betting it won't be for the following reason: all windows domain activity goes over the point to point - including replicating the changes of 70GB of files (~500MB per 30 minutes) |
| 17:12.12 | elg | and each be a secondary for the other location |
| 17:12.32 | SB1-Work | Plus, we have a SQL app running in building A, which buildings A, B, and C all talk to and use |
| 17:12.44 | SB1-Work | I *really* don't want to saturate that line any more |
| 17:12.49 | macnewbold | the other consideration is that cost of initial setup with replication etc. might be less than cost of simpler initial setup + cost of migration to complicated setup |
| 17:12.53 | elg | all the more reason you don't want to be replicating or doing network filesystems for your MAIL |
| 17:13.06 | macnewbold | in other words, more pain to migrate than just set it up that way in the first place, before it's live |
| 17:13.16 | SB1-Work | Compared to pulling all of that crap over the point to point every 10 minutes? |
| 17:13.21 | SB1-Work | People hate IMAP, it's all POP3 atm |
| 17:13.33 | SB1-Work | Why is beyond me, but... |
| 17:13.38 | macnewbold | well, that's actually better if they're doing 10MB messages |
| 17:13.46 | elg | even with pop3 they don't pull all the messages every time |
| 17:13.48 | elg | only new messages |
| 17:14.09 | macnewbold | do you really need full, immediate, offsite replication of all those files that are changing at 1GB/hour? |
| 17:14.35 | elg | with every client I've ever seen. pop3 does not work as nicely as imap, but the client can ask for messages newer than the last message it saw |
| 17:14.35 | SB1-Work | macnewbold, yup. The SQL app depends on it |
| 17:14.40 | macnewbold | why not a replicated db then, instead of replicating all the files? |
| 17:14.57 | SB1-Work | I never said I liked the SQL app, or that I thought it was designed correctly ;) |
| 17:15.15 | SB1-Work | I just said that we use it, and it depends on SQL and flatfiles ;) |
| 17:15.28 | macnewbold | so the sql app accesses a different SQL server at each place, that are depending on synchronized flatfiles? |
| 17:15.35 | SB1-Work | Synched flatfiles |
| 17:15.40 | macnewbold | yikes |
| 17:15.40 | SB1-Work | No cash for distributed SQL |
| 17:16.01 | elg | SB1-Work: would it be feasible to deliver mail to only one site - the user's local site? |
| 17:16.18 | elg | then nobody's using the p2p T1 for mail |
| 17:16.25 | elg | and you don't have to worry about replication |
| 17:16.27 | macnewbold | just quit your job, and you'll get rid of all these headaches. there are many job opportunities that have many fewer/simpler problems. |
| 17:16.29 | elg | and you have secondary MX |
| 17:16.34 | SB1-Work | elg, feasible? Yes. Well, no - everyone would change e-mail addresses |
| 17:16.40 | elg | no, they keep their email |
| 17:16.44 | macnewbold | set up subdomains, |
| 17:16.53 | elg | it's just delivered to their local server (based on their LDAP entry) |
| 17:16.54 | macnewbold | and have the non-primary forward it to the other one |
| 17:16.59 | SB1-Work | macnewbold, family business. I quit, they hire someone else, business goes under due to financial reasons :) |
| 17:17.05 | elg | they don't even have to change their clients if you do dns right |
| 17:17.14 | SB1-Work | I'm being paid crap, but I'm also working to keep food on my table :) |
| 17:17.23 | macnewbold | you could do the mail stuff over your internet rather than your overused p2p T1 line |
| 17:17.36 | SB1-Work | macnewbold, the internet T1s are even more saturated |
| 17:17.48 | SB1-Work | elg, that has possibility |
| 17:18.00 | elg | replicating or network filesystem will NOT save you bandwidth in any way shape or form |
| 17:18.01 | macnewbold | sounds like you need fatter pipes, or to cut down your data transfer requirements |
| 17:18.13 | elg | I can promise you that |
| 17:18.16 | SB1-Work | macnewbold, fatter pipes, needs more money, that we don't have :) |
| 17:18.25 | macnewbold | ever thought about moving to an area with UTOPIA service? how does 30MBps for under $100/month sound? |
| 17:18.38 | SB1-Work | We have three sites... Sandy, Salt Lake, and Bountiful |
| 17:18.46 | macnewbold | none of whihc have Utopia... |
| 17:18.49 | SB1-Work | Ding. |
| 17:18.57 | SB1-Work | Which sucks. |
| 17:19.45 | macnewbold | how about compression? are your 10MB emails compressed? email is a lousy format for file transfer cause it expands the data by 20% to base64 encode it and transfer it. |
| 17:19.56 | SB1-Work | 10MB pdfs. |
| 17:20.05 | SB1-Work | You can only compress those suckers so much |
| 17:21.57 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=fungus@firebat.aros.net) |
| 17:22.02 | elg | so, my official recommendation: set up two (three?) smtp (postfix) that send all mail to a primary mail server (box A). Try it for two days. If it's too slow, then make box B primary for its local users and configure A and B to send mail to the appropriate server (rewrite the addresses to a subdomain, based on your existing LDAP info, probably - although there are other ways) |
| 17:22.35 | elg | then everyone can get their mail whether or not the T1 is up, you have minimal network traffic, and redundant smtp mx |
| 17:22.42 | elg | and no user changes. |
| 17:23.20 | elg | well, I guess they'll have to change their server settings anyway if you aren't doing mail in-house currently |
| 17:23.20 | SB1-Work | Only have two public IPs, but I could do another copy of postfix here in SLC |
| 17:23.29 | elg | maybe you could trick them into using IMAP in the process too. :) |
| 17:23.32 | SB1-Work | Nah, I set it up correctly to start with |
| 17:23.45 | SB1-Work | All mail server hostnames are "pop3", "smtp", or "imap" |
| 17:23.53 | SB1-Work | DNS search reveals a CNAME |
| 17:23.58 | SB1-Work | Tada |
| 17:24.03 | elg | k |
| 17:24.03 | ^Migs^ | wow, I just had a wacky idea for a new compression form. Web-enabled compression. An algorithm could be written that basically takes a checksum of the data, but then also figures what would need to be used to decode it. This extra stuff gets uploaded to a webserver in plain-text form, so that all your encrypted files are very, very, very small, and all the extra data is stored externally. This way, you could even lock sensitive data to your IP. |
| 17:24.06 | SB1-Work | Moving the clients over will be piss easy |
| 17:24.14 | SB1-Work | It's getting the server itself working.. |
| 17:24.57 | elg | why can't you migrate everyone to imap in their sleep? |
| 17:25.08 | elg | anyone who can tell the difference will want to use imap anyway |
| 17:25.20 | SB1-Work | That's the thing that *scares* me |
| 17:25.37 | SB1-Work | After two years of using e-mail, I had a guy pull me aside, and in all honesty, ask what the "To: " field means |
| 17:25.48 | SB1-Work | Yet they can tell the difference and hate the latency with IMAP |
| 17:25.51 | SB1-Work | "Put it back!" |
| 17:25.56 | SB1-Work | Me: :'( |
| 17:26.02 | ^Migs^ | wow |
| 17:26.09 | elg | what client are they using that has latency? all clients worth salt will cache headers |
| 17:26.25 | SB1-Work | Outlook Express/Outlook |
| 17:26.28 | SB1-Work | I use TB, but uh |
| 17:26.30 | SB1-Work | I'm the only one.. |
| 17:26.35 | SB1-Work | Everyone else couldn't stand it |
| 17:26.38 | elg | on the plus side, that proves that the client is caching the pop messages and won't be retransmitting messages across the pipe :) |
| 17:26.54 | elg | what kind of latency are people seeing with outlook? |
| 17:27.11 | SB1-Work | To be dead honesty with you - I don't know |
| 17:27.13 | elg | the only program I've seen imap latency with (i.e. not caching headers) is mutt |
| 17:27.15 | SB1-Work | All I got back was "it's slow" |
| 17:27.37 | elg | SB1-Work: maybe they were talking about the time to d/l the message |
| 17:27.44 | SB1-Work | Further, currently, all e-mail is hosted at integra, 50MB quota |
| 17:27.46 | elg | most clients let you configure to predownload the whole message |
| 17:27.49 | goozbach | http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/10/03/kidnapped.bride.ap/index.html |
| 17:27.49 | SB1-Work | elg, yup, they were |
| 17:27.54 | SB1-Work | now that I think about it, yeah |
| 17:28.05 | SB1-Work | And it's stupid because they have to anyways |
| 17:28.07 | SB1-Work | But... they don't care |
| 17:28.12 | SB1-Work | "it's slow, put it back" |
| 17:28.17 | SB1-Work | "It really isn't any slower.." |
| 17:28.21 | SB1-Work | "yes it is, now put it back" |
| 17:28.23 | SB1-Work | "...." |
| 17:29.00 | levi | goozbach: One would have to expect something like that from a guy named Lemuel. |
| 17:29.57 | elg | heh |
| 17:30.24 | elg | SB1-Work: set it up to d/l the whole message not just the headers. problem solved |
| 17:30.49 | SB1-Work | "Hi POP3! How are you doing today?" |
| 17:30.50 | elg | it is slower, for one definition of slower. often "responsiveness" is the only factor that matters |
| 17:31.14 | elg | it's like pop3, yes, but there are other ways besides just browsing headers in which imap is superior |
| 17:31.19 | elg | you still get a net benefit |
| 17:31.21 | SB1-Work | Our biggest userbase is in sandy - 30ish people |
| 17:31.24 | SB1-Work | Salt Lake has 12 |
| 17:31.30 | SB1-Work | Bountiful has 2, soon to be 4 |
| 17:31.40 | SB1-Work | P2P T1 linking Sandy <--> SLC <--> B |
| 17:31.50 | SB1-Work | Those two people in bountiful? |
| 17:31.58 | SB1-Work | Yeah, they take the *cake* when it comes to whining. |
| 17:32.05 | SB1-Work | And they'd be the ones most effected |
| 17:32.15 | elg | affected by what? |
| 17:32.23 | SB1-Work | All mail over the P2P |
| 17:32.35 | elg | as opposed to ... |
| 17:32.46 | SB1-Work | Due to further stupidity, bountiful works off of sandy, though salt lake |
| 17:33.09 | SB1-Work | as opposed to having distributed points for clients to check their mail |
| 17:33.16 | elg | is that what you have now? |
| 17:33.21 | SB1-Work | No |
| 17:33.29 | SB1-Work | Now, all clients use the general internet to do their e-mail |
| 17:33.44 | elg | I find it hard to believe that anything you set up over your p2p link will be slower than that |
| 17:34.01 | SB1-Work | It's not me with the problem |
| 17:34.02 | SB1-Work | It's "them" |
| 17:34.14 | elg | and if it is, then just go over the internet to get to your server |
| 17:35.38 | SB1-Work | I want two points where uses can get their e-mail for one main reason: if the link goes down, it's over for SLC and Bountiful |
| 17:35.42 | elg | the current problem: mail over the net is too slow for them? |
| 17:35.54 | SB1-Work | It's taking the HUGE majority of the bandwidth |
| 17:36.07 | SB1-Work | Further, we're reselling part of the sandy line to the neighbor |
| 17:36.21 | SB1-Work | and Bountiful is on a DSL line with... two other businesses... |
| 17:36.22 | SB1-Work | ... |
| 17:38.10 | elg | t1 from bountiful to slc? |
| 17:38.25 | SB1-Work | And another from slc to sandy |
| 17:38.40 | goozbach | herlo!!! |
| 17:38.43 | goozbach | NO!!! |
| 17:38.45 | ^Migs^ | T1 is useless |
| 17:38.48 | goozbach | where'd ya go? |
| 17:39.10 | SB1-Work | ^Migs^, fork over the cash for something else |
| 17:39.17 | elg | ok, so mail server at sandy serves sandy. mail server at slc serves bountiful and slc |
| 17:39.28 | ^Migs^ | I'm not forking over anything. |
| 17:39.34 | ^Migs^ | I have a DSL line |
| 17:40.10 | SB1-Work | elg, right. Need two in points, and two out points |
| 17:40.19 | SB1-Work | ignore bountiful for all purposes here |
| 17:40.21 | elg | but you don't need everybody's mail in both places |
| 17:40.33 | elg | you only need the local mail |
| 17:40.53 | elg | their whole building could be isolated and they still get their mail |
| 17:41.01 | SB1-Work | With the exception of the SQL server (><) |
| 17:41.02 | ^Migs^ | why can't everyone just use wireless? |
| 17:41.11 | SB1-Work | It's setup now so that an entire server can go splat |
| 17:41.18 | SB1-Work | And everything will fail over |
| 17:41.18 | elg | hey, the other problems that might come from network outages aren't mail's problem |
| 17:41.22 | SB1-Work | Right |
| 17:41.27 | SB1-Work | But I'd like that advantage here also |
| 17:41.34 | elg | what advantage? |
| 17:41.35 | goozbach | http://www.fullduplex.org/humor/2006/10/how-to-shoot-yourself-in-the-foot-in-any-programming-language/ |
| 17:41.43 | goozbach | the unix one os HILAROUS |
| 17:41.46 | SB1-Work | If one mail server goes down |
| 17:41.50 | SB1-Work | Clients fail over to the ned |
| 17:41.58 | SB1-Work | s/ned/next/ |
| 17:42.45 | elg | that takes the two things it's apparent you don't have: money and bandwidth |
| 17:42.55 | elg | HA is expensive. fact of life |
| 17:43.21 | SB1-Work | If that happens, I have bigger problems than bandwidth |
| 17:43.34 | SB1-Work | it'll go piss slow, but if it works, it works, and that's what I want |
| 17:43.37 | ^Migs^ | hahaha |
| 17:43.39 | ^Migs^ | nice find, goozbach |
| 17:44.12 | elg | SB1-Work: no, you need all that bandwidth CONSTANTLY to keep them replicated |
| 17:44.36 | elg | or worse, if you're using a network fs |
| 17:48.46 | SB1-Work | Well, from what I can tell now, postfix will do what I want it to |
| 17:48.59 | SB1-Work | it's just a matter of /not/ following all of the retarded tutorials out there |
| 17:49.33 | SB1-Work | I've learned more from five man pages in ten minutes than I ever have over like eight tutorials :P |
| 17:50.11 | *** join/#utah Robdor (n=rob@208.187.198.179) |
| 17:50.31 | SB1-Work | afk food, then I shall return |
| 17:51.24 | levi | SB1-Work: Let this be a lesson to you. |
| 17:52.39 | elg | so what's bradipo up to these days? |
| 17:58.40 | Jayce^ | haven't heard from him in a looong time |
| 18:07.56 | mheath[laptop] | I wish I could setup that machine as a server..... |
| 18:08.13 | mheath[laptop] | But one of its primary uses is for scanning in documents, and the scanner isn't supported by SANE.. |
| 18:08.52 | mheath[laptop] | What I really need is a keyboard for my sun computer, so I can get that setup. |
| 18:15.51 | mheath[laptop] | There are some who call me....Tim? |
| 18:16.50 | macnewbold | some guy from the netherlands came into #uphpu, cause there's a user who frequents there using the name timothy |
| 18:16.59 | *** join/#utah nick125_ (n=upirc@m410e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 18:17.03 | macnewbold | and this netherland guy is trying to claim Timothy is his nick |
| 18:17.07 | elg | so netherlandeses like the name tim? |
| 18:17.15 | macnewbold | but if he doesn't have it registered, it doesn't much matter |
| 18:17.27 | graphyx | do you have that one registered? |
| 18:17.28 | macnewbold | and if he does, then he could just kick any imposters |
| 18:23.05 | mheath[laptop] | What annoys me is someone registered mheath_ -.- |
| 18:25.07 | graphyx | wonder who would have done that.. |
| 18:26.30 | mheath[laptop] | graphyx, Someone who used it for a week long after I started using mheath, then hasn't logged on with it for over a year and a half |
| 18:26.39 | mheath[laptop] | I wonder if the freenode ops would mind freeing it up for me. Hmm. |
| 18:29.26 | elg | i thought nickserv deregistered nicks after disuse of so many weeks |
| 18:29.31 | elg | at least, its help says it will |
| 18:29.34 | elg | i thought |
| 18:29.34 | macnewbold | yeah, 60 days it says |
| 18:30.04 | mheath[laptop] | Registered: 1 year 36 weeks 2 days (0h 7m 18s) ago |
| 18:30.18 | mheath[laptop] | Last Seen: 1 year 35 weeks 2 days (11h 31m 7s) ago |
| 18:30.20 | graphyx | oh wow.. |
| 18:30.27 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (n=linuxali@67.15.82.73) |
| 18:31.40 | mheath[laptop] | Why does #freenode forward to #freenode-social? |
| 18:32.12 | elg | emcnabb knows |
| 18:33.10 | macnewbold | possibly you have to be an op to hang out in #freenode? |
| 18:33.49 | mheath[laptop] | I know that didn't used to be the case. |
| 18:33.57 | macnewbold | no idea |
| 18:34.20 | graphyx | #security is reserved for the discussion of security of freenode. |
| 18:34.24 | graphyx | The push to ##security. |
| 18:34.32 | graphyx | like ##perl |
| 18:34.51 | *** part/#utah linuxalien (n=linuxali@67.15.82.73) |
| 18:37.14 | mheath[laptop] | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:39.23 | mheath[laptop] | Hmm, is there another project like Synergy, but a little simpler? |
| 18:39.42 | mheath[laptop] | Basically what I'm looking to do is use my laptop connected to an exterior monitor as a desktop system |
| 18:40.02 | mheath[laptop] | I want an external keyboard and mouse too, but the only ones I have are PS/2 and the laptop doesn't have PS/2 |
| 18:40.32 | mheath[laptop] | So I'm looking to plug the mouse and keyboard into my server box, and have the input go into the windows box. |
| 18:45.23 | mheath[laptop] | Or is it possible to run a synergy screen with no X11? |
| 18:48.16 | elg | or do you even need a screen? |
| 18:48.38 | elg | can you set up synergy to use just one screen ( the one over there ), and run the server on your x-free box |
| 18:49.11 | findlay | ~hug g-cpan |
| 18:49.12 | ibot | ACTION hugs g-cpan |
| 18:49.20 | mheath[laptop] | elg, yeah... I wonder. Hmmm. |
| 18:49.45 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (i=linuxali@gateway/tor/x-edea36778e877413) |
| 18:50.29 | SB1-Work | levi, hehe, trust me: it's going to be a lesson |
| 18:50.36 | SB1-Work | In more than just one thing, that's for sure |
| 18:51.26 | mheath[laptop] | Does anyone have any expeirence with Synergy? |
| 18:51.38 | findlay | g-cpan is a model of how all languages should install their libraries |
| 18:51.56 | fungus | mheath: I do, but I don't think your idea will work. |
| 18:52.05 | fungus | I am pretty sure synergy is dependant on X11 |
| 18:52.23 | fungus | it uses the pointer location to switch between boxes. |
| 18:52.28 | Tene | g-cpan? |
| 18:52.35 | Tene | how is that different from normal cpan? |
| 18:52.50 | mheath[laptop] | fungus, No, one box. The server won't be a screen, it will just be used for input. |
| 18:53.53 | fungus | That means it has to run synergys which requires X11 |
| 18:54.02 | Jayce^ | fungus, agreed... |
| 18:54.17 | Jayce^ | the host box needs to be running x11 for synergys |
| 18:54.40 | fungus | synergys reads the pointer movement via X11 to select the screen to control. |
| 18:54.54 | Tene | synergy+vnc would be rather interesting. |
| 18:55.13 | Jayce^ | Tene, you're evil... |
| 18:55.47 | Tene | evil... or genius? |
| 18:56.00 | Tene | ibot: tene is also evil |
| 18:56.02 | ibot | okay, Tene |
| 18:56.06 | mheath[laptop] | OK...Hmm. |
| 18:56.13 | mheath[laptop] | Wish I had a bit of money for a USB keyboard. |
| 18:56.20 | Tene | mheath[laptop]: steal one |
| 18:56.30 | mheath[laptop] | Tene, I'll get right on that. |
| 18:56.45 | Jayce^ | evil, I could do some seriously bad jokes, or warp some brains |
| 18:56.48 | Tene | That's how I'm going to get Jayce^'s laptop. |
| 18:57.37 | mheath[laptop] | MS finally sent me the pressed DVD copy |
| 18:57.44 | fungus | mheath[laptop]: you could just run X11 on your server. |
| 18:57.46 | SB1-Work | elg, yeah it would be |
| 18:57.56 | SB1-Work | elg, err, elg, disregard |
| 18:57.58 | mrpull | mheath[laptop]: just in time for RC2 to come out of Friday |
| 18:58.02 | SB1-Work | I was scrolled WAY up |
| 18:58.24 | mheath[laptop] | mrpull: Last friday or this fridady? |
| 18:58.31 | mheath[laptop] | *friday |
| 18:58.33 | Jayce^ | frydaddy? |
| 18:58.35 | mrpull | coming (rumored) |
| 18:59.04 | SB1-Work | Nope |
| 18:59.45 | mrpull | probably not. but i did do a beta2 -> RC1 upgrade |
| 18:59.54 | mrpull | (with the DVD) |
| 19:00.27 | Supaplex | Tene: I already got his old laptop :) |
| 19:01.00 | Jayce^ | Tene, now redbeard1 agrees with me on the wonderful evil beholden in your simple statement |
| 19:01.23 | mheath[laptop] | anyone here happen to have an extra keyboard for a Sun computer? |
| 19:01.36 | mheath[laptop] | The old round connectors, not the USB ones on newer systems |
| 19:01.46 | mheath[laptop] | Or a serial terminal I could borrow. |
| 19:02.10 | Supaplex | mheath[laptop]: I have (vintage one) |
| 19:02.20 | mheath[laptop] | Or even an extra _CABLE_ for a sun computer |
| 19:03.15 | mheath[laptop] | Supaplex, whats the connector line? Round with 9 holes? |
| 19:03.46 | mheath[laptop] | Or wereyou saying you had a serial terminal? |
| 19:04.03 | Supaplex | it's the keyboard |
| 19:04.38 | Supaplex | I haven't looked at it for a long time. I'm pretty sure it's round like a mini din, and might just have 9 pins. |
| 19:05.08 | mheath[laptop] | Supaplex, where are you located? I'd love to borrow that, or buy it from you :) |
| 19:05.29 | Supaplex | SLC |
| 19:05.43 | mheath[laptop] | bah |
| 19:06.31 | Supaplex | I might be in the provo/orem area this weekend, and I live near Hill AFB |
| 19:07.03 | mheath[laptop] | Supaplex, "near Hill AFB" != SLC |
| 19:07.14 | mheath[laptop] | Where specifically near Hill Air Force Base? |
| 19:07.15 | Supaplex | I work in SLC |
| 19:07.19 | Supaplex | Sunset |
| 19:07.56 | mheath[laptop] | Hmmm. I'll have to see. |
| 19:08.10 | *** join/#utah jsmith (n=jsmith@000-173-309.area3.spcsdns.net) |
| 19:08.32 | *** join/#utah tuxd00d (n=tuxinato@128.187.128.38) |
| 19:09.14 | jsmith | -welcome tuxd00d |
| 19:09.30 | jsmith | ~welcome tuxd00d |
| 19:09.32 | ibot | Good to see you, tuxd00d! |
| 19:10.15 | Supaplex | I guess I need some brainfoodies. - bbiaw |
| 19:10.19 | tuxd00d | Did't Tim Riker write jbot? |
| 19:10.32 | SB1-Work | tuxd00d, and ibot, and all of those others, yes |
| 19:10.40 | tuxd00d | ahh |
| 19:10.51 | SB1-Work | it's all the same process |
| 19:10.53 | Supaplex | blootbot isn't it? |
| 19:11.18 | tuxd00d | jsmith: I was going to join BYU-UUG today |
| 19:11.28 | SB1-Work | Yup |
| 19:12.08 | maquis | is there going to be an irc-feed of the uug meeting? |
| 19:12.08 | jsmith | tuxd00d: Check out PLUG (and of course UTAUG) |
| 19:14.03 | tuxd00d | sites? or shall I google? |
| 19:14.25 | SB1-Work | ARGH |
| 19:14.30 | SB1-Work | I just locked myself out of MySQL |
| 19:14.39 | jsmith | tuxd00d: plug.org, utaug.org |
| 19:14.44 | SB1-Work | mysql-administrator crashed on me.. as I was fixing permissions.. |
| 19:15.46 | tuxd00d | jsmith: you should hit me with he obvious stick, thanks |
| 19:16.40 | jsmith | tuxd00d: Better the obvious stick than the clue-by-four |
| 19:17.53 | tuxd00d | jsmith: should I get clue-by-four stick for not knowing what it is? |
| 19:18.01 | goozbach | maquis, tuxinato |
| 19:18.02 | *** join/#utah herlo (n=herlo@ip-216-73-177-176.hqglobal.net) |
| 19:18.02 | goozbach | duh |
| 19:18.06 | tuxd00d | I am a new geek to Utah |
| 19:18.13 | goozbach | speaking of duh... |
| 19:18.18 | herlo | is there any way to reduce an xfs filesystem...? |
| 19:18.25 | goozbach | herlo: how's that thing going? |
| 19:18.32 | jsmith | maquis: tuxd00d moved to Utah about the same time I left -- he's an Asterisk geek like me |
| 19:18.56 | tuxd00d | that I am |
| 19:19.18 | Tene | herlo: simmer it on medium heat for a while |
| 19:19.25 | mheath[laptop] | ~lart asterisk just to be different |
| 19:20.10 | SB1-Work | Lucky for tuxd00d, we're all geek friendly ;) |
| 19:20.26 | herlo | Tene: to what are you referring? |
| 19:20.35 | herlo | goozbach: good, thanx |
| 19:20.56 | herlo | Tene: xfs, only has high and low settings... |
| 19:21.00 | Tene | bad attempt at a cooking joke about "reducing" something |
| 19:22.09 | TimRiker | write? no. modify greatly? yes. apt/ibot/jbot/purl are all the same blootbot. blootbot is a descendant of the original infobot. |
| 19:22.55 | maquis | jsmith: you're not in utah anymore? |
| 19:23.01 | SB1-Work | btw, TimRiker, not to hound you concerning your bot... but it refuses to connect to another IRC network of mine, and then after a bit, goes into 99% CPU mode |
| 19:23.13 | goozbach | cool trick of the day: |
| 19:23.18 | goozbach | wc -L |
| 19:23.25 | jsmith | maquis: No, I moved to Virginia in August -- I just hang out in #utah b/c of all the cool people in here. |
| 19:23.25 | herlo | Tene: yeah, it took me a minute. I am a bit low on steam |
| 19:23.29 | goozbach | prints the lenght of the longest line in a file |
| 19:23.30 | jsmith | goozbach: Capital L? |
| 19:23.35 | jsmith | goozbach: Nice! |
| 19:23.39 | TimRiker | SB1-Work: unfortunately irc protocol varies from network to network. patches welcome. |
| 19:23.44 | herlo | goozbach: that is nice |
| 19:24.04 | SB1-Work | TimRiker, I figured. Too bad I'm perl-impared ;) |
| 19:24.08 | goozbach | jsmith: yup |
| 19:24.08 | TimRiker | sniffit is a useful tool for debugging the connection. |
| 19:24.09 | SB1-Work | Thansk anyways though |
| 19:24.15 | tuxd00d | TimRiker: You speaking tomorrow? |
| 19:24.19 | TimRiker | yes |
| 19:24.38 | tuxd00d | TimRiker: don't know if I am readign the heading right, new to #utah |
| 19:24.49 | TimRiker | SB1-Work: public network? open a SF bug on it and someone might get to it. |
| 19:24.57 | tuxd00d | TimRiker: I'll come by and say Hi then |
| 19:25.10 | SB1-Work | TimRiker, will do, thanks |
| 19:25.27 | *** topic/#utah by TimRiker -> The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. Read http://plug.org/node/28 | Keep the channel rated H (for harleypig) | Tim Riker @ BYU-UUG, 7:30pm Oct. 5th | OALUG InstallFest @ WSU-Davis, October 12th 7:00PM |
| 19:25.42 | *** topic/#utah by TimRiker -> The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah | Read http://plug.org/node/28 | Keep the channel rated H (for harleypig) | Tim Riker @ BYU-UUG, 7:30pm Oct. 5th | OALUG InstallFest @ WSU-Davis, October 12th 7:00PM |
| 19:25.49 | TimRiker | tuxd00d: :) |
| 19:26.28 | mheath[laptop] | tuxd00d, You have TimRiker to thank for bzflag, if you weren't already aware :P |
| 19:26.41 | mheath[laptop] | Hmm. maybe I'll get my UoU acceptance letter today. |
| 19:27.43 | tuxd00d | mheath: the tank game? |
| 19:27.52 | mheath[laptop] | tuxd00d, yeah. |
| 19:28.02 | tuxd00d | neat |
| 19:28.21 | tuxd00d | mheath: UofU? eww, BYU all the way! |
| 19:28.22 | SB1-Work | The tank game is hawt. |
| 19:28.54 | mheath[laptop] | tuxd00d, I'm not mormon, but thanks :) |
| 19:28.57 | mheath[laptop] | ~lart BYU |
| 19:29.02 | tuxd00d | mheath[laptop]: but I'll still be your friend. |
| 19:29.28 | tuxd00d | mheath[laptop]: You dont' have to be Mormon, just like mormon girls. ;-) |
| 19:29.46 | Tene | mheath: watch out! "be your friend" means he's going to try to convert you! |
| 19:29.53 | SB1-Work | lol |
| 19:29.53 | SB1-Work | Good times |
| 19:30.04 | SB1-Work | The thing that I find funny |
| 19:30.11 | mheath[laptop] | Tene, THe mormons are attacking! I better watch out! ;-P |
| 19:30.18 | tuxd00d | not at all, most of my friends are nomo, and it doesn't many a difference for me |
| 19:30.22 | SB1-Work | I'll be attending the U soon enough, but I'm taking a friend out Tuesday, who is currently attending BYU. |
| 19:30.44 | mheath[laptop] | nomo? hahaha |
| 19:31.53 | tuxd00d | so, expain to me, UofU, Utah, Utah state... what is what? |
| 19:32.10 | SB1-Work | UofU = utah.edu |
| 19:32.20 | tuxd00d | I know we lost our chick volleyball game last weak to a Utah school of Red |
| 19:32.51 | ^Migs^ | it's okay. I'm Mormon, but I wouldn't be caught dead attending BYU. That school blows. |
| 19:33.00 | ^Migs^ | let me rephrase. BYU students suck. |
| 19:33.08 | ^Migs^ | I like some of the professors there. |
| 19:33.20 | tuxd00d | ^Migs^: You don't like the bubble? |
| 19:33.59 | SB1-Work | hahaha, bubble |
| 19:34.10 | Tene | Yes, the happy valley bubble. |
| 19:34.18 | SB1-Work | I know |
| 19:34.23 | SB1-Work | That's why I'm kinda laughing |
| 19:34.24 | ^Migs^ | it's not the "bubble" so to speak. It's the overhormonized young adults inhabiting the bubble. |
| 19:34.27 | *** topic/#utah by herlo -> UUG, 7:30pm Oct. 5th | OALUG InstallFest @ WSU-Davis, October 12th 7:00PM |
| 19:34.35 | herlo | oops |
| 19:34.38 | Tene | howso, Migs? |
| 19:34.58 | *** join/#utah atoponce (i=aaron@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xFC04088F) |
| 19:35.00 | herlo | I was trying to figure out where my cursor was in gaim... |
| 19:35.09 | ^Migs^ | BYU is the one remaining meat market university on earth. :) |
| 19:35.23 | herlo | and I erased half of the topic, at least on my screen |
| 19:35.27 | mheath[laptop] | hahaha |
| 19:35.35 | SB1-Work | Nice job :) |
| 19:35.35 | ^Migs^ | * Topic is 'The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. Read http://plug.org/node/28 . Keep the channel rated H (for harleypig). Tim Riker @ BYU-UUG, 7:30pm Oct. 5th. OALUG InstallFest @ WSU-Davis, October 12th 7:00PM' |
| 19:35.53 | SB1-Work | * TimRiker has changed the topic to: The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah | Read http://plug.org/node/28 | Keep the channel rated H (for harleypig) | Tim Riker @ BYU-UUG, 7:30pm Oct. 5th | OALUG InstallFest @ WSU-Davis, October 12th 7:00PM |
| 19:35.53 | *** topic/#utah by Tene -> The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah | Read http://plug.org/node/28 | Keep the channel rated H (for harleypig) | Tim Riker @ BYU-UUG, 7:30pm Oct. 5th | OALUG InstallFest @ WSU-Davis, October 12th 7:00PM |
| 19:35.53 | SB1-Work | Bah, beat me to it |
| 19:35.54 | ^Migs^ | bwahaha |
| 19:36.04 | Tene | Yeah, 'cause I'm a winner |
| 19:36.07 | herlo | ^Migs^: that's not true, you still have other meat markets in the nation, take Yale, for instance |
| 19:36.19 | SB1-Work | Different type of meat market. |
| 19:36.31 | levi | I met a girl from Yale. She was pretty cool. |
| 19:36.36 | herlo | SB1-Work: what do you mean, I am sure many Moron's go there |
| 19:36.38 | Tene | Howso, SB? |
| 19:36.49 | herlo | er, Mormon's... |
| 19:37.11 | ^Migs^ | OMGMORONLOLLOLOLOLOLOLLLLLOL |
| 19:37.16 | SB1-Work | MORONLAWL |
| 19:37.17 | SB1-Work | Yeah yeah |
| 19:37.24 | ^Migs^ | AHAHAHAHAHROFLROFLRFOLRFLORFLLZOFLOZFLZOLZO!!111111111 |
| 19:37.35 | ^Migs^ | herlo++++++++++++++++++++++ |
| 19:37.39 | SB1-Work | SImply because it isn't BYU, and the mormons that attend Yale are certaintly in the minority |
| 19:37.51 | herlo | ^Migs^: thanx man, I needed that.... |
| 19:38.04 | ^Migs^ | np :) |
| 19:38.07 | mheath[laptop] | SB1-Work, not after the.....ATTACK OF THE MORMONS! (duh duh duh) |
| 19:38.13 | ^Migs^ | dum dum dum dum dum |
| 19:38.22 | SB1-Work | mheath[laptop], lol. |
| 19:38.35 | SB1-Work | Do note, for those that do not know here, I am indeed a mormon myself |
| 19:38.43 | SB1-Work | That's why I just kinda laugh at all of this |
| 19:38.44 | ^Migs^ | zomgnowai |
| 19:38.50 | SB1-Work | Not in #utah! NO WAY! |
| 19:38.51 | ^Migs^ | me 2 |
| 19:38.57 | ^Migs^ | we should, like, hang out n stuf |
| 19:39.03 | SB1-Work | I already tried |
| 19:39.04 | SB1-Work | You refused |
| 19:39.05 | ^Migs^ | go to a fireside togetha |
| 19:39.07 | mheath[laptop] | I'm part Mormon. On my mother's side. :P |
| 19:39.23 | SB1-Work | Remember, ^Migs^? |
| 19:39.31 | ^Migs^ | oh right |
| 19:39.31 | tuxd00d | on the flip side, the blood banks love BYU because it is nearly disease and out-of-country-travel free |
| 19:39.36 | SB1-Work | Not to mention the, something like, what is it |
| 19:39.42 | SB1-Work | >10? >15? year age gap |
| 19:39.52 | ^Migs^ | uh |
| 19:39.58 | ^Migs^ | maybe you're thinking of someone else |
| 19:40.04 | SB1-Work | How old are you? |
| 19:40.06 | graphyx | tuxd00d: you sure? I thought it was great cause so many people travel to foriegn lands and speak many different languages.. |
| 19:40.13 | ^Migs^ | 27 |
| 19:40.23 | SB1-Work | 9. I was close with the >10. |
| 19:40.45 | levi | It is easy to forget that ^Migs^ is in fact an adult. |
| 19:40.53 | ^Migs^ | I try to keep it that way. |
| 19:41.04 | SB1-Work | Well, you do a pretty good job of it |
| 19:41.08 | tuxd00d | graphyx: not sure on the figure of missionaries that aren't stateside |
| 19:41.10 | ^Migs^ | in 40 years, you'll all be envying my youthful behavior |
| 19:41.27 | graphyx | tuxd00d: I knew 20 or so from my mission in Italy. |
| 19:41.35 | graphyx | Not that we have the worst of it there. |
| 19:41.43 | graphyx | I would be more worried about all those headed into South america. |
| 19:41.50 | tuxd00d | ^Migs^: 27, gee if I ever got that old, I'd kill myself |
| 19:41.58 | ^Migs^ | and the world would thank you for it |
| 19:42.15 | tuxd00d | graphyx: two years to go for me |
| 19:42.58 | mheath[laptop] | tuxd00d, till what? |
| 19:43.08 | mheath[laptop] | You go on a mission? |
| 19:43.22 | tuxd00d | so, there I go changing the topic to mo's again... what we're we talking about before I came storming in here? |
| 19:43.32 | tuxd00d | speaking of strome, one's a coming |
| 19:43.41 | mheath[laptop] | My non-immediate family is kind of looking down at me at the moment related to that. |
| 19:43.46 | tuxd00d | mheath: till I'm 27 |
| 19:43.59 | mheath[laptop] | I stopped going to church when I was around 12, but they didn't know that |
| 19:44.06 | tuxd00d | mheath: I served in Houston |
| 19:44.22 | mheath[laptop] | Now that I'm the age to get ready for a mission and I'm, erm, not, they now know I'm not active in the church anymore. |
| 19:44.54 | SB1-Work | Might want to tell them. |
| 19:44.58 | ^Migs^ | they need to settle down, then |
| 19:45.26 | ^Migs^ | it sounds they missed the "judge not lest ye be judged" concept |
| 19:45.33 | SB1-Work | Indeed |
| 19:45.55 | tuxd00d | ^Migs^: I don't like those kind of people |
| 19:45.56 | ^Migs^ | it's one thing to be concerned because someone is not doing what you think is right. It's another to "look down" on someone because of that. |
| 19:45.57 | mheath[laptop] | ^Migs^, What kind of area do YOU live in? My area, church, and non-immediate family seems to have completely missed that concept in general. |
| 19:46.08 | mheath[laptop] | One of the reasons that I originally stopped going to church |
| 19:46.16 | ^Migs^ | oh gosh, I've lived in great areas where NO ONE does that, and then some areas where, yeah, I see it |
| 19:46.38 | SB1-Work | people are people. That's what it boils down to. |
| 19:46.39 | ^Migs^ | judge a religion by its tenets, not by its adherents |
| 19:46.46 | SB1-Work | Ding ding ding @ ^Migs^ |
| 19:47.01 | ^Migs^ | it's a good rule of thumb when evaluating ANY religion. Adherents invariably fail to live up to what a religion teaches. |
| 19:47.34 | ^Migs^ | I mean, if you're sitting right there with snobby people barking at you, of course it's hard to stick around, though |
| 19:47.35 | mheath[laptop] | ^Migs^, my reasons for not being a member of the Mormon church are now based on everything |
| 19:47.41 | mheath[laptop] | Like i said, I was around 12 when I left |
| 19:47.48 | mheath[laptop] | My reasons then were not as complex as they are now |
| 19:48.05 | ^Migs^ | I'm not trying to criticize your reasons or convince you of anything :) |
| 19:48.40 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (i=linuxali@gateway/tor/x-9e75cb44fffa99b7) |
| 19:48.43 | tuxd00d | any of you know any starving PHP dudes? |
| 19:48.52 | ^Migs^ | <---- starving PHP dude |
| 19:49.00 | SB1-Work | What ^Migs^ said |
| 19:49.10 | SB1-Work | ps aux | grep ntop |
| 19:49.13 | SB1-Work | ... wrong window |
| 19:49.18 | mheath[laptop] | hah |
| 19:49.18 | levi | (translated as, any of you know anyone willing to work for under market value?) |
| 19:49.18 | ^Migs^ | very wrong window |
| 19:49.21 | tuxd00d | starving and wants some work? |
| 19:49.31 | ^Migs^ | hmmm |
| 19:49.31 | ^Migs^ | depends. What needs doing? |
| 19:49.35 | tuxd00d | levi: yes, exactly |
| 19:49.49 | tuxd00d | I just need a helper |
| 19:49.49 | ^Migs^ | I don't mind doing some cheap work, as long as it's not a LOT of work for REALLY cheap. |
| 19:49.59 | tuxd00d | my health is poor, and I am doing a large project |
| 19:50.03 | ^Migs^ | just a few things here and there, that's fine. |
| 19:50.08 | tuxd00d | also looking for a web developer |
| 19:50.27 | tuxd00d | not, small things, cheap |
| 19:50.41 | findlay | ~work ^Migs^ |
| 19:50.49 | ibot | ACTION looks over the shoulder of ^Migs^ to see what needs to be done and then sets the elves to work getting it all done so ^Migs^ can play bzflag |
| 19:51.06 | ^Migs^ | My normal rate is $40/hr, which is actually quite cheap, but I've been known to go as low as $20/hr when collaborating and when steady work is coming in. |
| 19:51.12 | tuxd00d | ^Migs^: Are you near Provo? |
| 19:51.19 | ^Migs^ | uh, sorta. Roy. |
| 19:51.25 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 19:51.53 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (n=von@71.36.90.153) |
| 19:52.31 | vontrapp | mheath: hans tells me you have synergy wonderments |
| 19:52.44 | mheath[laptop] | vontrapp, yeah. |
| 19:53.08 | tuxd00d | ^Migs^: roy, learn a new utah city everyday |
| 19:53.09 | vontrapp | synergy connects between x servers (and windows) |
| 19:53.27 | mheath[laptop] | yeah, thats what I was told..hmm. |
| 19:53.37 | vontrapp | so the headless box, you could use synergy on it, you just need x on it also |
| 19:53.56 | vontrapp | you can have some kind of virtual x, like vnc or something |
| 19:54.03 | vontrapp | and still use it to control all the other ones |
| 19:54.14 | mheath[laptop] | I'll probably just go withsomething really lightweight. |
| 19:54.18 | mheath[laptop] | hmmm |
| 19:54.40 | mheath[laptop] | Or, if I ever get my freakin MONEY, I can just buy a USB keyboard. |
| 19:54.49 | mheath[laptop] | ~lart The US Government |
| 19:54.53 | vontrapp | you can even set it up such that once the cursor leaves the virtual x screen, it won't go back to it at all |
| 19:55.11 | vontrapp | so you essentially have only the actual screens (no dissapearing mouse trick) |
| 19:55.44 | tuxd00d | thank you ibot |
| 19:56.16 | mheath[laptop] | I couldn't bring myself to lart the Marine Corps. The government took the blame. |
| 19:56.44 | vontrapp | so when you restart the us government, does that go back to washington? |
| 19:56.49 | *** join/#utah jsmith (n=jsmith@000-173-309.area3.spcsdns.net) |
| 19:57.04 | *** part/#utah linuxalien (i=linuxali@gateway/tor/x-9e75cb44fffa99b7) |
| 19:57.17 | vontrapp | or back to the drafting of the constitution |
| 19:57.51 | *** join/#utah dilvie (n=chatzill@c-67-166-126-133.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 19:58.25 | SB1-Work | .... I'm going to KILL the people next door to the sandy office |
| 19:58.29 | SB1-Work | Running gnutella |
| 19:59.04 | vontrapp | taking your bandwidth? |
| 19:59.15 | vontrapp | what kind of lame isp are you on? |
| 19:59.21 | SB1-Work | We rent it to them, so they're allowed to |
| 19:59.28 | SB1-Work | But they're not allowed to do that on the connection |
| 19:59.30 | SB1-Work | Integra |
| 19:59.43 | vontrapp | rent them less bandwidth |
| 19:59.57 | *** part/#utah scothoser (n=scothose@wifi-177140.aoce.utah.edu) |
| 19:59.59 | SB1-Work | Not the point |
| 20:00.36 | vontrapp | so they're allowed to steal bandwidth, just not allowed to steal that much bandwidth? |
| 20:00.58 | SB1-Work | They're allowed to use what they please |
| 20:01.01 | SB1-Work | For work purposes |
| 20:01.07 | SB1-Work | Not piracy purposes ;) |
| 20:01.40 | vontrapp | music helps productivity... |
| 20:01.56 | tuxd00d | SB1-Work: Do you like them? |
| 20:01.57 | SB1-Work | lol |
| 20:02.08 | SB1-Work | Does vontrapp P2P at work? ;) |
| 20:02.24 | tuxd00d | SB1-Work: who doesn't |
| 20:02.28 | vontrapp | vontrapp workd from home |
| 20:02.37 | SB1-Work | tuxd00d, no, they're arrogant pricks. One time, the owner of that business walked up to one of our bathroom doors, started BEATING ON IT, and shouting, "What'd you do, fall in?" |
| 20:02.38 | vontrapp | with lmao bandwidth |
| 20:02.41 | tuxd00d | people work in offices? |
| 20:02.44 | SB1-Work | Out walks a 60 year old lady |
| 20:02.52 | SB1-Work | Never returned to our offices again |
| 20:03.05 | mheath[laptop] | hahah |
| 20:03.38 | tuxd00d | SB1-Work: they are not nice, but they do compensate you for their bandwidth, no? |
| 20:03.57 | SB1-Work | tuxd00d, they do, yes |
| 20:04.15 | tuxd00d | sounds like not enough |
| 20:04.51 | SB1-Work | They give us money, and a fair amount of it. They also just happen to be pricks with no manners and rather loud, obnoxiuos voices. |
| 20:05.05 | tuxd00d | ^Migs^: webitize.com/tributeToUtah.wmv |
| 20:05.39 | ^Migs^ | have any of you heard of Mythic Realms? http://www.mythicrealms.com |
| 20:05.43 | dilvie | you missed out on fun last night |
| 20:05.47 | tuxd00d | I don't miss working in an office, all that drama |
| 20:05.59 | dilvie | http://picasaweb.google.com/dilvie/20061003_Johnnys |
| 20:07.00 | tuxd00d | ^Migs^: Now I have... very interesting |
| 20:08.12 | findlay | my office is currently in a production of "King Lear" |
| 20:08.22 | findlay | very dramatic |
| 20:15.25 | [phoenyx] | SB1-Work: can you block P2P ports? |
| 20:16.01 | tuxd00d | [phoenyx]: can, but should? |
| 20:16.38 | SB1-Work | [phoenyx], they're dynamic |
| 20:17.00 | SB1-Work | And even then, it's much easier to call up the boss in Sandy and say, "so uh, the neighbors, using our name to pirate stuff" |
| 20:17.05 | SB1-Work | And let him do the dirty work |
| 20:17.41 | tuxd00d | bueno idea |
| 20:19.16 | ^Migs^ | my coworker just showed me some pictures he took of these guys at one of the Mythic Realms events. It's hilarious. They dress up and have padded weapons and stuff. Then the magic-users have beads they throw at each other, and announce the spell they're casting, like "LIGHTNING BOLT!" Then when they attack, they announce the damage they're doing, like "7 magic 3 normal!" |
| 20:19.29 | ^Migs^ | it's SOOO funny. I'm going to go to one of those events. |
| 20:19.37 | ^Migs^ | Take lots of pictures + video |
| 20:20.22 | tuxd00d | some boys never grow up |
| 20:20.30 | ^Migs^ | half of them were girls |
| 20:20.55 | tuxd00d | girls can do what ever they want, as long as they stay cute |
| 20:23.07 | tuxd00d | getting windy out there |
| 20:24.43 | *** join/#utah macnewbol1 (n=mac@69.2.248.251) |
| 20:27.05 | mheath | http://loose-bits.blogspot.com/ |
| 20:28.35 | ^Migs^ | http://sites.gizoogle.com/index2.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Floose-bits.blogspot.com%2F |
| 20:31.02 | mheath | THe package categories list is the least distorted |
| 20:31.05 | mheath | seems to have problems with lists |
| 20:31.13 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (i=linuxali@gateway/tor/x-2d94e8586670e4fc) |
| 20:31.36 | Supaplex | *burp* |
| 20:32.34 | graphyx | SB1-Work: Get an inline snort box from their connection. |
| 20:32.48 | graphyx | Write sigs (or take them from bleeding snort) for the p2p apps and put in block mode. |
| 20:32.53 | graphyx | Viola no p2p. |
| 20:33.16 | graphyx | for them. |
| 20:33.17 | *** part/#utah linuxalien (i=linuxali@gateway/tor/x-2d94e8586670e4fc) |
| 20:33.34 | graphyx | cost: 1 computer 2 nics. |
| 20:33.37 | graphyx | ups |
| 20:33.40 | graphyx | if you have SLA |
| 20:33.52 | graphyx | Too bad their p2p DoSed the connection.. |
| 20:34.25 | SB1-Work | Or! |
| 20:34.28 | SB1-Work | Just talk to the boss there |
| 20:34.33 | SB1-Work | And have him do the dirty work |
| 20:34.40 | graphyx | sure.. whatever. |
| 20:34.55 | graphyx | but having inline snort works instantly. |
| 20:35.00 | graphyx | but boss can help |
| 20:35.00 | SB1-Work | lol |
| 20:35.08 | SB1-Work | Boss made the contract |
| 20:35.19 | SB1-Work | Boss has a way with words... got all of our e-mail hosted through our ISP for free |
| 20:35.40 | SB1-Work | Few gigs of e-mail per day easy |
| 20:38.53 | graphyx | cool. |
| 20:40.19 | goozbach | http://akaimbatman.intelligentblogger.com/wordpress/ |
| 20:45.12 | tuxd00d | goozbach: Meat Fighter - The Weiner Warrior, ummm |
| 20:46.05 | goozbach | yeah |
| 20:46.10 | goozbach | SFW btw |
| 20:48.07 | tuxd00d | who's the sucker stuck on windows who downloading my Utah video?, poor guy |
| 20:48.45 | tuxd00d | ~define SFW |
| 20:48.47 | ibot | Use ~dict for definitions. |
| 20:49.00 | tuxd00d | ~dict SFW |
| 20:49.26 | mrpull | ~wtf sfw |
| 20:49.26 | findlay | ~download tuxd00d |
| 20:49.42 | tuxd00d | watch out, HERE I COME! |
| 20:50.02 | graphyx | sfw = safe for work. |
| 20:50.11 | graphyx | nsfw means not safe for work. |
| 20:50.13 | tuxd00d | ahh |
| 20:50.25 | graphyx | however, sfw != sfm |
| 20:50.31 | graphyx | safe for mormons. |
| 20:50.37 | graphyx | but I haven't seen that one ever fly. |
| 20:50.46 | graphyx | er.. used i mean. |
| 20:51.36 | tuxd00d | nothing wrong with clean stuff, now is there? |
| 20:52.34 | graphyx | just time wasting. |
| 20:52.46 | graphyx | you know, the old charge.. wasting amunition. |
| 20:56.32 | goozbach | http://thedailywtf.com/forums/thread/94412.aspx |
| 20:56.41 | goozbach | oh man somebody's getting yelled at |
| 20:59.19 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (n=von@71.36.90.153) |
| 21:01.09 | mrpull | goozbach: OUCH |
| 21:06.16 | mheath | Still no money in the mail today. :( |
| 21:11.02 | ^Migs^ | btw, tuxd00d, what sort of web development project are you working on? |
| 21:11.02 | ^Migs^ | you could just post the project on rentacoder or something |
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| 21:14.11 | *** part/#utah bonez41 (n=knoppix@drjones.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 21:14.22 | tuxd00d | ^Migs^: I am moving a company from a ms-access dot net everything nightmare to a php automated intranet based |
| 21:14.46 | tuxd00d | ^Migs^: I'll check out rentacoder |
| 21:14.58 | ^Migs^ | do you have project specs written up? |
| 21:15.05 | ^Migs^ | what's the timeframe for this project? |
| 21:15.25 | ^Migs^ | It's not that I mind doing this project, but I like to divide projects into phases, with payout at the end of each phase, otherwise it's completely chaotic |
| 21:17.09 | tuxd00d | I just need help a couple hours here and there |
| 21:17.56 | ^Migs^ | hmmmmmmmmmmm |
| 21:18.02 | tuxd00d | and I would like help from someone I can trust, not those can't-code-worth-crap indians |
| 21:18.16 | ^Migs^ | well, that's not bad at all. You were making it sound like it was going to be this huge thing I'd have to devote 20 hours a day to |
| 21:18.21 | ^Migs^ | omg, don't get me started on indians |
| 21:18.54 | tuxd00d | I just need to have the project progress a little faster |
| 21:18.55 | ^Migs^ | I've wasted more time debugging indian code on some projects than implementing my own CORRECT code |
| 21:19.01 | tuxd00d | ^Migs^: when are you free today? |
| 21:19.07 | ^Migs^ | how much do you have done already? |
| 21:19.39 | ^Migs^ | probably this evening. I'll have to see what's going on. Usually I do my work late at night, when the kids are in bed |
| 21:19.47 | ^Migs^ | can I msg you? |
| 21:21.57 | ^Migs^ | I think we all need to remember how awesome I am. |
| 21:22.13 | macnewbold | ~laugh |
| 21:22.14 | ibot | ACTION rolls around on the floor laughing |
| 21:22.48 | tuxd00d | I have a ton of done already |
| 21:22.53 | tuxd00d | it's pretty neat |
| 21:22.56 | macnewbold | btw, not all indians are poor programmers - I know some very smart ones in fact |
| 21:22.59 | ^Migs^ | can I see? |
| 21:23.17 | tuxd00d | macnewbold: no doubt |
| 21:23.19 | ^Migs^ | yes, I'm aware of very smart ones, too |
| 21:23.26 | macnewbold | but most of the code shops in india doing freelance work out of the US seem to be not so good :) |
| 21:23.36 | ^Migs^ | However, the ones I've had the immense pleasure to work directly with have been crap |
| 21:23.41 | macnewbold | from what I've heard, they code exactly what you tell them to, no more no less, |
| 21:23.46 | macnewbold | and won't do any thinking about the problem |
| 21:24.01 | macnewbold | and most people who hire them couldn't write a decent spec document if their life depended on it |
| 21:24.03 | ^Migs^ | I've had some who inflated their resume |
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| 21:24.22 | southsky | ~lart Keighvin |
| 21:24.30 | elg | I knew an Indian guy at BYU who was really really sharp. I doubt he works/worked for a rentacoder shop though |
| 21:24.35 | ^Migs^ | e.g., "I have 10 years in WebLogic development." "Okay, here's a JPF pageflow, see what you can do with it. |
| 21:24.36 | elg | and there's the rub |
| 21:24.49 | ^Migs^ | "Um, what do I with it?" "You open it in WebLogic" |
| 21:25.05 | ^Migs^ | I should come up with a better example that more people can relate to, but you get the point |
| 21:25.36 | southsky | ~onjoin southsky |
| 21:25.46 | ^Migs^ | basically, just not having any basic knowledge about the system at all |
| 21:28.56 | Keighvin | ~giggle |
| 21:28.57 | ibot | teeheehee! |
| 21:33.59 | Keighvin | Wow. elg's a dolphin? |
| 21:34.10 | Tene | No, Ten dolphins. |
| 21:34.25 | southsky | ~dolphin Keighvin |
| 21:34.30 | southsky | It was worth a try. |
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| 21:38.10 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp09.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 21:38.21 | Keighvin | The dolphin returneth! |
| 21:39.11 | *** part/#utah ^Migs^ (n=Migs@205.122.50.21) |
| 21:44.01 | *** part/#utah herlo (n=herlo@ip-216-73-177-176.hqglobal.net) |
| 21:44.35 | redbeard1 | Keighvin: dude, why would you do that? |
| 21:46.22 | *** part/#utah southsky (n=southsky@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 21:46.50 | Keighvin | I take after the wicked witch of the west. |
| 21:47.16 | redbeard1 | wasn't she the one that got smushed by a house? |
| 21:48.35 | [phoenyx] | that was the ww of the east, iirc |
| 21:49.14 | redbeard1 | was the western one the one that melted with water? |
| 21:51.39 | [phoenyx] | yup |
| 21:51.43 | Keighvin | Crap. |
| 21:52.18 | Keighvin | The WWotW was the one who issued the phrase, "...and your little dog, too!" |
| 21:58.15 | findlay | you can find some real bargains in your spam box, you know |
| 21:58.31 | findlay | I wonder why they call it spam. Why not bargain box? |
| 22:00.15 | [phoenyx] | don't do it! If you give them attention it only encourages them more |
| 22:00.44 | Keighvin | ~spam findlay |
| 22:00.45 | ibot | ACTION subscribes findlay to every possible mailing list he can find on the 'net AND arranges for findlay to get at least 50 snail mail spams a day |
| 22:00.58 | Keighvin | Snail Spam! |
| 22:08.23 | Keighvin | ~lart findlay's attempt to bring down teh INTARWEBS |
| 22:13.11 | *** join/#utah harleyjpig (n=harleypi@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 22:13.26 | harleyjpig | I want this wanted poster: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061004/od_uk_nm/oukoe_uk_germany_wanted |
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| 22:35.06 | harleyjpig | I scared everyone off |
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| 22:46.34 | mheath | harleyjpig, want to buy a color dotmatrix printer? :P |
| 22:48.24 | harleyjpig | ha |
| 22:48.25 | harleyjpig | no |
| 22:48.27 | harleyjpig | :] |
| 22:50.06 | harleyjpig | Careful of the stairs ... they squeak ... and my brother is usually up till 4am, and my 3 youngest will swarm you if you wake them up ... |
| 22:50.53 | mheath | why in the world is your brother up till 4am? |
| 22:51.21 | mheath | Maybe this is the "6-hours-of-sleep-minus-firewatch" me speaking, but sleep rocks. |
| 22:51.40 | harleyjpig | He works the night shift here for our technical support, then he plays WoW and sleeps till noon. |
| 22:52.11 | mheath | Wish I had money to play WoW. |
| 22:52.13 | mheath | Gah. |
| 22:52.52 | harleyjpig | It's only $20/month, plus the extra expenses when you get tired of trying to get gold pieces and buy them online somewhere ... |
| 22:53.46 | tuxd00d | am I the only one who has never played Wow, I'm a big WC3 and SC fan |
| 22:54.16 | harleyjpig | I played it, but I couldn't get into it ... I'm a CS:S fan. |
| 22:54.36 | harleyjpig | As a matter of fact, I'm about to reboot into Winblows and play it. |
| 22:54.55 | mheath | harleyjpig, Yes, and I am in debt from being unemployed and wasting a month of my life while making NO MONEY. |
| 22:55.18 | harleyjpig | I *was* being sarcastic. |
| 22:55.23 | tuxd00d | harleyjpig: don't quite have it working in linux yet? |
| 22:55.25 | mheath | Plus, I'm going to be going more and more into debt over the next 4+ years as I go through college. |
| 22:55.43 | harleyjpig | No ... the keyboard won't work for some reason. |
| 22:56.02 | tuxd00d | you don't need no stinken keyboard |
| 22:56.16 | harleyjpig | Plus, I just reinstalled Kubuntu 6.10 and I can't get nvidia to work. |
| 22:56.30 | tuxd00d | when you do, let me know |
| 22:56.33 | mheath | tuxd00d, WC3 was an afterthought extension to the Warcraft series. Its HEAVILY inspired by WoW. |
| 22:56.53 | tuxd00d | mheath: sure seemed like it |
| 22:57.07 | mheath | tuxd00d, besides, you're not a real geek unless you play Warcraft 1 on an old DOS computer |
| 22:57.08 | harleyjpig | Going to reboot now and kill some cyberpeople ... cyberbullets cause no pain! |
| 22:57.16 | mheath | ~lart harley |
| 22:57.19 | mheath | *harleypig |
| 22:57.26 | tuxd00d | mheath: who said I didn't |
| 22:58.37 | Tene | mheath: freedos? |
| 22:59.06 | mheath | Tene, No. MS-DOS 2.0! |
| 23:03.36 | tuxd00d | I might be able to play WC1 on my 3d-video chip-less laptop |
| 23:05.14 | *** part/#utah linuxalien (i=linuxali@gateway/tor/x-f5a1d7ce2deab215) |
| 23:05.34 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 23:16.06 | emcnabb | anyone around? |
| 23:16.19 | tuxd00d | in body or mind? |
| 23:16.29 | emcnabb | both |
| 23:16.40 | emcnabb | you have access to a ssh client? |
| 23:17.27 | tuxd00d | yes |
| 23:20.26 | mheath | tuxd00d, you should be able to play WC2 |
| 23:20.50 | emcnabb | tuxd00d: thanks |
| 23:21.10 | tuxd00d | mheath: true, now, if I could only find some time |
| 23:21.34 | tuxd00d | emcnabb: no prob |
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| 23:57.58 | Supaplex | stuff! |
| 23:58.02 | *** join/#utah tuxd00d (n=tuxinato@128.187.128.38) |
| 23:58.19 | mheath | I'm thinking of going with Solaris or FreeBSD. |
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