| 00:10.48 | *** join/#utah Evan_ (n=Evan@c-67-182-211-240.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 00:12.43 | findlay | so the isp's solution to our apartment router dying was to put the entire complex on a dialup line |
| 00:13.41 | Tene | ... |
| 00:13.46 | Tene | *twitch* |
| 00:16.43 | mheath | Emerging 2 of 398 |
| 00:16.55 | mheath | This might take a while... |
| 00:18.43 | findlay | mheath: did you enable confcache and ccache? |
| 00:20.05 | findlay | how about mounting /var/tmp/portage as tmpfs? |
| 00:20.30 | *** join/#utah rum (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 00:26.10 | mheath | findlay, yeah, confcache and ccache are there |
| 00:26.32 | mheath | IRC Is _very_ simple, as far as bandwidth requirements |
| 00:26.54 | mheath | I remember that, back when we were still using dialup and our 56K modem broke, we stuck in a 28K temporarily |
| 00:27.08 | mheath | IRC was the only thing I could do without a very, very, very noticeable speed drop |
| 00:27.37 | findlay | mheath: yeah, but I'm lucky to get packets through here at all |
| 00:27.50 | findlay | I feel like I'm working at microsoft or something |
| 00:28.02 | mheath | hah. |
| 00:30.08 | mheath | hmm, I think this is going to be an overnight process, even on this faster laptop. |
| 00:30.47 | findlay | mheath: you should mount /var/tmp/portage in RAM and give it a Gib of space |
| 00:30.55 | mheath | I have a question for you..... |
| 00:31.13 | mheath | WHY did slashdot post an article some guy submitted wining about how difficult it is to install Gentoo? |
| 00:31.24 | mheath | The Gentoo install has been dumbed down to a surprsing level |
| 00:31.47 | mheath | Only stage3 installs are supported anymore; it requires about half the steps of previous installs, takes half the time |
| 00:31.58 | mheath | it offers step-by-step, concise "type this" instructions |
| 00:32.40 | findlay | mheath: yeah I guess they figured that if you really want to control the CFLAGS on core packages all you need to do is `emerge -e system` |
| 00:33.06 | findlay | it eliminates the LFS feel from the install, but it does save everybody a lot of time |
| 00:33.28 | findlay | basically stage1 and 2 are a waste of time |
| 00:34.26 | mheath | Yep. |
| 00:38.09 | mheath | 16 of 398....wow. I looked away, and now its on 19. Now 20. Now 21. |
| 00:38.35 | Tene | You've really never worked with a fast machine before, have you? |
| 00:39.29 | mheath | Nope :P |
| 00:39.41 | mheath | My fastest computer before this was a 450 Mhz Pentium III |
| 00:39.56 | mheath | We did have a 1ghz desktop machine, but it always ran windows.... |
| 00:41.06 | Tene | and what's this system? |
| 00:41.16 | mheath | This laptop is a 2Ghz AMD Mobile Sempron |
| 00:41.24 | mheath | With a nice ATI graphics card and a gig of RAM :) |
| 00:44.51 | mheath | Tene: It's been blowing me away. |
| 00:45.08 | mheath | But, BRB. Doing some admin work on this nasty Windows box and it's time for a reboot |
| 00:48.17 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (i=linuxali@gateway/tor/x-72bcd7351bea901c) |
| 00:51.38 | findlay | ~lart lag |
| 00:56.24 | *** join/#utah findlay_ (n=justin@Brentwood-mikrotik.veracitycom.net) |
| 00:57.24 | findlay_ | ~nuke netbios |
| 00:57.26 | ibot | ACTION prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at netbios ... B☢☢M! |
| 00:57.30 | findlay_ | ~lart netbios |
| 00:57.35 | findlay_ | ~lart lag |
| 00:57.58 | Tene | what's netbios doing? |
| 00:59.29 | findlay_ | it fills up my tcpdump output with useless chatter and gibberish |
| 01:03.01 | findlay_ | anybody know what this means: [hp] Scanner issued SCL error: (2) Parameter Error |
| 01:06.36 | Tene | you have an HP scanner on your network? |
| 01:09.18 | findlay_ | no |
| 01:09.31 | findlay_ | it's connected over scsi |
| 01:09.51 | Tene | oh, that's not from tcpdump? |
| 01:09.58 | findlay_ | no |
| 01:10.02 | Tene | Heh. |
| 01:10.45 | findlay_ | Tene: aren't you going to solve my problem for me? |
| 01:11.00 | Tene | um... |
| 01:11.06 | Tene | ~google scanner error thing |
| 01:11.16 | Tene | ibot: google |
| 01:11.17 | ibot | hmm... google is a search engine found at http://www.google.com/ |
| 01:11.28 | Tene | bah, ibot won't ask google for me |
| 01:11.37 | findlay_ | ibot: ask! |
| 01:11.39 | ibot | hmm... ask is Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there, just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily. See also http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html |
| 01:16.18 | *** join/#utah mheath (n=mheath@c-67-182-231-23.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 01:19.13 | Tene | coi mheath |
| 01:19.25 | mheath | Continuing to look through the old stuff of my grandmothers....Found some interesting things |
| 01:20.04 | mheath | 1933 World's Fair souvenier - "A sample of the aluminum in the new UNION PACIFIC TRAIN built by PULLMAN CAR & MFG. CORP." |
| 01:20.58 | mheath | Utah and Colorado Sales Tax tokens |
| 01:25.07 | Tene | ??? |
| 01:25.14 | Tene | oh |
| 01:26.05 | findlay_ | hey, I want Sales Tax |
| 01:28.31 | mheath | Yeah, apparently back in the 1930's a lot of states got the impression that it was bad for businesses to 'unfairly' profit that 0.*** cent by rounding up the sales tax |
| 01:28.44 | mheath | Thus, you got the opportunity to carey around a _second_ set of coins! |
| 01:29.46 | findlay_ | are there any good car irc channels? |
| 01:30.13 | Tene | what about #cars ? |
| 01:30.21 | Tene | or #bigscarythingsthatgoVROOM ? |
| 01:30.30 | findlay_ | hey that's a good one |
| 01:38.50 | *** part/#utah linuxalien (i=linuxali@gateway/tor/x-72bcd7351bea901c) |
| 01:45.11 | Tene | findlay_: aren't you going to come? |
| 02:08.53 | QBFreak | macnewbold: yeah, all the fans work, and there's a lot more than in my other system |
| 02:09.12 | QBFreak | I think it must be case design |
| 02:30.59 | ScytheBlade1 | Where's TimRiker when you need him |
| 02:31.07 | ScytheBlade1 | blootbot refuses to connect to my other IRC network :/ |
| 02:39.44 | *** join/#utah vonplank (n=von@207.108.168.33) |
| 02:40.07 | *** join/#utah epp (n=Evan@c-67-182-211-240.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 02:40.18 | epp | how do i get an eggdrop to op me? |
| 02:45.19 | *** join/#utah phinux (n=jamie@c-24-10-168-132.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 02:45.57 | *** join/#utah mhatch (n=mhatch@71-219-6-40.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 02:46.14 | phinux | Hey, I just deleted the linux partitions on my laptop leaving only the windows partition. Part of what I deleted was the /boot section. Ayone know how to get the computer to stop looking for Grub and just boot Windows? |
| 02:46.48 | epp | phinux, put in a windows cd and gpo into repair mode and type "fixmbr". |
| 02:50.20 | phinux | thanks. stupid windows. |
| 02:55.13 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=xbmodder@atarack/staff/xbmodder) |
| 02:56.12 | EpP | sure thing |
| 02:57.56 | EpP | opme |
| 02:59.49 | Sargun | I need some good backpacks |
| 03:00.03 | Sargun | Name some good, geeky backpacks (lots of storage/durability) |
| 03:00.28 | EpP | im getting the ogio Legend |
| 03:01.05 | phinux | I like Jansports. They have lifetime guarantees, but it seems like lately they've been making them from shoddy materials. |
| 03:04.34 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@70.98.110.105) |
| 03:04.43 | EpP | i would also suggest Dakine HeliPro... |
| 03:08.33 | findlay_ | reformat partition as ext3? |
| 03:08.38 | findlay_ | (: |
| 03:09.55 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (n=von@207.108.168.33) |
| 03:12.25 | Sargun | I was looking for a steel laptop case |
| 03:12.29 | Sargun | do they still sell those |
| 03:12.30 | Sargun | ? |
| 03:12.36 | EpP | So crude... |
| 03:12.57 | Sargun | You didn't see the video a couple years ago |
| 03:13.05 | Sargun | where the guy tested out like 9 laptop cases |
| 03:13.13 | Sargun | with automatic weapons |
| 03:13.18 | Sargun | and explosives |
| 03:13.21 | Sargun | and falls |
| 03:13.27 | EpP | Who is going to shoot your case with a rifle? |
| 03:13.37 | Sargun | lol |
| 03:14.00 | EpP | My backpack is perfectly padded... I would think about that steel case if i was stationed in iraq. |
| 03:16.28 | Sargun | mheath, hey? |
| 03:17.43 | mheath | hey (interjection) 1. used as an exclamation to call attention or to express pleasure, surprise, bewilderment, etc. 2. Souther U.S. Informal. hello: used as a greating. |
| 03:17.57 | mheath | Origin: 1150-1200; Middle English hei |
| 03:19.04 | mheath | Used to attract attention or to express surprise, appreciation, wonder, or pleasure. |
| 03:19.50 | mheath | What can I help you with, Sargun? |
| 03:20.04 | mheath | Or, what are you bewildered, surprised, or pleasured by? |
| 03:20.17 | Sargun | What do you think of: http://www.targus.com/us/product_details.asp?sku=TBB003US |
| 03:20.30 | Sargun | mheath, whats a good laptop case, what does the military use? |
| 03:21.08 | mheath | Sargun, Why in the world would you ask me that? I'm a Basic Marine. Thats as far as I made it in my training. |
| 03:21.09 | Sargun | *notices price |
| 03:21.12 | Sargun | *dies* |
| 03:21.21 | mheath | AFAIK, the military doesn't carry compaq laptops into combat. |
| 03:21.28 | Sargun | mheath, toughbooks right? |
| 03:21.39 | Sargun | and they have some protocol |
| 03:21.48 | Sargun | so not carrying it into enemy lines IIRC |
| 03:22.26 | Sargun | I hate compaqHP |
| 03:22.38 | mheath | Sargun, I. AM. A. BASICALLY. TRAINED. MARINE. Not even quite that, technically. I know how to march, how to carry an M16A2 rifle, how to obey commands instantly. |
| 03:22.48 | Sargun | heh |
| 03:22.54 | Sargun | sorry, thanks anyway |
| 03:22.57 | mheath | I have no clue, nor a care in the world, about what kind of laptops people in the military use. |
| 03:23.18 | mheath | Yes, there is a DoD spec about requirements for field grade computer systems. |
| 03:23.20 | Sargun | you just seem to know everything militarial related. |
| 03:23.56 | mheath | I looked into it a bit, a while back. Systems that comply with that spec usually run about $5,000 (while they're comparable to $1,000 systems in everything except durability) |
| 03:24.16 | Sargun | :-/ |
| 03:24.34 | EpP | atoponce, when your present. Message me. |
| 03:25.05 | atoponce | EpP: give me about an hour |
| 03:25.27 | mheath | Sargun, that spec makes computers that are drop proof, scratch proof, bullet proof, water proof, dust/sand proof, etc. Laptops so strong you could chuck it off the roof of your house and not notice the difference. |
| 03:26.05 | mheath | Sargun, you don't need a laptop like that. If you want something durable, buy one of those laptops that IBM advertises as being able to sense when its dropped so it can lock the hard disk. :P |
| 03:26.30 | EpP | Like ME! |
| 03:26.42 | EpP | My Thinkpad has that. |
| 03:27.01 | mheath | Military spec gear is very durable, but often really......crude. |
| 03:28.11 | mheath | Go buy yourself some candy. |
| 03:28.21 | vontrapp | what's a simple cpu intensive program? |
| 03:28.26 | vontrapp | (testing) |
| 03:28.37 | EpP | vontrapp, Pi. |
| 03:28.59 | findlay_ | yes |
| 03:29.07 | Sargun | mheath, I have one of those |
| 03:29.14 | findlay_ | `yes I am an intensive program` |
| 03:29.16 | mheath | vontrapp, thats what I was going to say...pi calculuation programs. But, anything with a lot of worthless and expensive loops and threads. |
| 03:29.26 | findlay_ | hence, yes |
| 03:29.32 | findlay_ | man yes |
| 03:29.44 | Sargun | can you buy a peice of candy with that much money? |
| 03:29.50 | mheath | ..... |
| 03:30.01 | Sargun | there are no candy stores nearby |
| 03:30.03 | findlay_ | yours for only coreutils-6.1 |
| 03:30.07 | mheath | Sargun, You could pay the sales tax on a piece of candy. In 1930. |
| 03:30.10 | Sargun | heh |
| 03:30.13 | *** join/#utah Kuyaedz (i=Kuyaedz@gateway/tor/x-9b8d5099a00660c7) |
| 03:30.24 | *** join/#utah Evan_ (n=Evan@c-67-182-211-240.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 03:30.42 | *** part/#utah Kuyaedz (i=Kuyaedz@gateway/tor/x-9b8d5099a00660c7) |
| 03:30.47 | mheath | Yah, GTK is compiling |
| 03:30.52 | findlay_ | but mine's better ): |
| 03:31.08 | mheath | Sargun, Don't look to the DoD as a good provider of standards. Trust me. |
| 03:31.18 | findlay_ | or stats for that matter |
| 03:31.37 | vontrapp | pi was a big dissapointment |
| 03:31.41 | findlay_ | there are lies, dang lies, statistics, and millitary stats |
| 03:31.42 | vontrapp | can't find Pi |
| 03:31.44 | EpP7 | Sargun, what latop do you have? |
| 03:31.46 | findlay_ | vontrapp: yes |
| 03:32.01 | findlay_ | vontrapp: should be in coreutils |
| 03:32.10 | mheath | DoD sanitation policies failed to prevent horrible outbreaks of pneumonia when I was in basic training. |
| 03:32.20 | vontrapp | npe |
| 03:32.22 | vontrapp | nope |
| 03:33.35 | findlay_ | vontrapp: not `Pi`, but `yes`, the command `yes` |
| 03:33.35 | mheath | vontrapp, Run "yes I'm worthlessly eating a lot of resources!" |
| 03:33.59 | findlay_ | or for reasurance against threats of irrelevance, `yes I am a genius.` |
| 03:34.23 | mheath | ooh, I have 2.20 in defunct Colorado tax coins. |
| 03:34.31 | mheath | 2.20 cents* |
| 03:34.48 | findlay_ | should be worth something on ebay |
| 03:35.14 | mheath | findlay_, nah. Like $5, if that. |
| 03:35.29 | mheath | Not even a noteworthy profit, if you consider inflation |
| 03:35.46 | mheath | And I have a "1" coin from Utah |
| 03:35.57 | vontrapp | "1"? |
| 03:35.58 | mheath | Not sure what its 1 of, though |
| 03:36.00 | vontrapp | 1 dollar? |
| 03:36.08 | vontrapp | 1 thousand? |
| 03:36.17 | mheath | vontrapp, hahaha. No. Probably 1 Millionth of a Dollar |
| 03:36.35 | Sargun | EpP7, T60p |
| 03:36.51 | Sargun | toughbook = $ |
| 03:37.22 | *** part/#utah phinux (n=jamie@c-24-10-168-132.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 03:38.18 | Sargun | hatchmt, thanks |
| 03:38.55 | hatchmt | mhatch is the backup nick, and for some reason I was using it. <shrug> |
| 03:40.02 | vontrapp | yes works |
| 03:40.38 | Sargun | yes works? |
| 03:40.44 | mheath | Hmmm. What operating systems were readily available for the Intel 8088? |
| 03:40.45 | findlay_ | I knew it |
| 03:40.52 | findlay_ | I am a genius |
| 03:41.18 | mheath | Is MS-DOS pretty much it? |
| 03:41.30 | findlay_ | bsd? |
| 03:41.41 | findlay_ | other DOSes? |
| 03:42.16 | mheath | I'm thinking about trying to obtain a model of the first computer I ever used |
| 03:42.21 | mheath | not sure what I'd run on it, though |
| 03:42.34 | findlay_ | TANK WARS |
| 03:43.27 | mheath | It was a cool computer |
| 03:43.45 | mheath | 8 and 16 bit processors - had both an 8086 and and 8088, you could choose at boot which one to use |
| 03:44.04 | mheath | Color display........My dad even hacked the hardware to support 4MB of RAM! |
| 03:44.25 | Sargun | lol |
| 03:44.38 | mheath | (Unheard of for a system that shiped with 256K and only officially supported upgrades to 756K, I believe) |
| 03:44.49 | mheath | Upgraded the processors to 8MHz |
| 03:44.50 | Sargun | I cannot imagine an 8-bit computer |
| 03:44.57 | Sargun | 16-bit, yes. |
| 03:44.59 | Sargun | but not 8-bit |
| 03:45.26 | mheath | Anyone here ever play Adventure (The old cave exploration game)? |
| 03:45.29 | hatchmt | mheath: I was only able to use DOS... Maybe Windows version 2 at the most. Windows 3.0 required a 16-bit bus or something (it worked on my 286, but not the 8088) |
| 03:45.44 | hatchmt | It seems that Windows 2 and below was just a glorified 'dosshell' anyway |
| 03:46.01 | hatchmt | OS/2 was always 32-bit |
| 03:46.06 | hatchmt | Linux doesn't run on it |
| 03:46.31 | hatchmt | There might be an ancient BSD that would run, but I thought all of that required 32-bit |
| 03:47.27 | mheath | hatchmt, I don't have the computer we owned anymore, but I still have the software....MS-DOS 2.0, TurboPascal, Windows 1.0 |
| 03:47.47 | hatchmt | I still have the computer -- a Compaq portable |
| 03:47.56 | hatchmt | Amazingly, it still works too. :) |
| 03:49.45 | hatchmt | brb |
| 03:51.51 | Sargun | EpP, hey |
| 03:52.16 | EpP | hi |
| 04:00.05 | EpP | im going to install ubuntu... |
| 04:00.18 | EpP | unless anyone has a better OS to install. |
| 04:01.02 | levi_home | mheath: Probably CP/M, too. |
| 04:01.20 | mheath | levi: yeah. That was the prefered OS for the 16 bit mode |
| 04:04.22 | levi_home | When the IBM PC Model 5150 was launched, apparently it could run PC-DOS, CPM-86, and the UCSD D-Pascal system. |
| 04:05.21 | Sargun | I have my cold. |
| 04:05.31 | Sargun | s/ave/ate/ |
| 04:06.27 | levi_home | Apparently you could run MINIX on an 8088, too. |
| 04:06.36 | EpP | onto unbuntu!!!!!!! |
| 04:07.07 | mheath | I know theres was a (now dead) effort to work on backporting Linux to the 8086. |
| 04:08.12 | levi_home | Well, minix was presumably available when people still used computers with 8088 chips. :) |
| 04:13.13 | QBFreak | levi_home: I use mine...when I need ineffecient heating anyway |
| 04:14.41 | *** join/#utah epp (n=ubuntu@209-253-79-234.dsl.mcleodusa.net) |
| 04:14.59 | epp | I have one gig of ram. How big should my swap file be? |
| 04:17.05 | tensai | I have 1 gb of ram and ubuntu gave me 2.5 gb of swap. that seems excessive. |
| 04:17.23 | tensai | my rule of thumb is 1:1, except for cases of extremely small amounts of ram |
| 04:19.53 | mheath | epp, 512MB would be good. |
| 04:20.44 | mheath | tensai, I was always taught that, anything under a gig, double it for the swap size......Anything a gig or over, 512-1024, discretionary. |
| 04:22.05 | epp | ok so 512 or 1 gig? |
| 04:22.17 | epp | or 700? |
| 04:22.21 | epp | lol |
| 04:22.25 | atoponce | epp, back |
| 04:22.54 | epp | ok |
| 04:24.52 | tensai | epp: 673.14 :) |
| 04:27.13 | epp | ok |
| 04:27.14 | epp | lol |
| 04:40.12 | mheath | mm. Emerge gnome is on 293 or 398. It will be ready in the morning :) |
| 04:41.05 | mheath | Time to hit the rack. (This recruit has no medical or personal problems to report at this time, SIR! This recruit's rifle serial number is 6570990, SIR!) |
| 04:41.34 | Sargun | whoa. |
| 04:41.37 | Sargun | good night. |
| 04:41.45 | mheath | Prepare to mount! (Prepare to mount, aye, sir! HONOR, COURAGE, COMMITTMENT, MARINE CORPS!) |
| 04:41.48 | Sargun | Are you really identified by your gun? |
| 04:42.02 | mheath | Mount! (Mount, Aye, sir! I'm up, he can see me, I'm down!) |
| 04:42.20 | Sargun | fire? |
| 04:42.44 | mheath | Adddddjust! (Platoon one thousand thirty four! Senior Drill Instructor Staff Sargeant Nemeis! Kill, kill, kill 'em all! Discipline about all else!) |
| 04:43.31 | mheath | Sigh. Hopefully I will, at some point in my life, be elligible to finish the process of becoming a United States Marine. |
| 04:43.44 | mheath | *Discipline above all else! |
| 04:44.59 | epp | how do I edit the grub list to have windows boot as default? |
| 04:45.51 | mheath | meh, one last question |
| 04:45.58 | mheath | epp, change the "default #" directive |
| 04:46.14 | mheath | Say you have two menu entries, Ubuntu and then Windows. |
| 04:46.39 | epp | yeah, where dfo i do this at? |
| 04:46.46 | mheath | A line above saying "default 0" makes Ubuntu boot by default. "default 1" would cause Windows to boot by default. |
| 04:46.50 | epp | s/dfo/so |
| 04:46.51 | mheath | epp, /boot/grub/menu.lst |
| 04:46.53 | epp | bah |
| 04:46.58 | epp | allright thx |
| 04:55.56 | atoponce | i have his bot working, and he's not around to enjoy it... |
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| 05:02.44 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch@71-219-6-40.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 05:48.07 | Sargun | any cops here? |
| 05:49.41 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch@71-219-6-40.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 05:58.04 | QBFreak | Sargun: looks like you're safe |
| 05:59.50 | Sargun | heh |
| 06:00.01 | Sargun | no, I wanna ask them questions |
| 06:13.00 | rsimpkins | The only nice cops I know are cops they won't give jobs too. |
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| 07:03.11 | synic | heh, that extra o at the end there made it so I had to read that sentence a few times before I knew what it meant :) |
| 07:03.22 | synic | <-- idiot |
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| 07:24.00 | *** join/#utah bonez39 (n=bonez@drjones.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 07:24.42 | bonez39 | anyone awake at this hour? |
| 07:25.26 | Tene | yeah |
| 07:25.31 | Tene | are you? |
| 07:30.19 | bonez39 | Tene, well, yeah, just frustrated....I have a machine that was running 98se just FINE and I went and tried to load xppro on it..and now it's just a nightmare..... |
| 07:30.37 | bonez39 | do any rooms exist where MS users congregate to get problems resolved? |
| 07:30.39 | Tene | That's upsetting. |
| 07:31.02 | Tene | I think there was one, and some mailing list... |
| 07:31.07 | Tene | windows users anonymous, or something |
| 07:31.18 | Tene | I think it was a four-letter acronym |
| 07:31.32 | bonez39 | hmmm |
| 07:32.12 | bonez39 | this machine I want to run xppro on..is old..I admit...400 mhz...a dinosaur.....in relative terms...but it should run...despite the slowness.... |
| 07:32.43 | bonez39 | I keep on reloading this and that.....and just wish I could figure out why it keeps on failing.... |
| 07:33.20 | bonez39 | that and now my cups installation doesn't want to work here..on my linux box.... |
| 07:33.48 | Tene | I remember hearing the name 'xplite' thrown around before... |
| 07:34.40 | bonez39 | oh, what does xplite do? |
| 07:34.51 | Tene | trims down a bunch of stuff in xp |
| 07:35.02 | bonez39 | that'd be nice...... |
| 07:35.06 | Tene | reduce memory usage by a lot... disk space... stuff loaded at startup... |
| 07:35.08 | Tene | something like that |
| 07:35.17 | bonez39 | I have done everything except reformat the hard drive on this xp machine.... |
| 07:35.24 | bonez39 | I'll look into xplite |
| 07:35.42 | bonez39 | thanks for the tip |
| 07:37.58 | *** join/#utah gthornock (n=gthornoc@158.91.203.43) |
| 08:50.22 | *** join/#utah bonez39 (n=bonez@drjones.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 08:51.06 | bonez39 | Tene, still here? |
| 08:51.08 | bonez39 | I have a different question for ya now |
| 08:51.14 | Tene | yeah, I am |
| 08:51.27 | bonez39 | I have three hdd's in my linux box.... |
| 08:51.48 | bonez39 | one is 3g other is 8g ..two IDE drives..and the third is SATA 80 gb drive... |
| 08:52.03 | bonez39 | I run everything or nearly everything on the SATA which is /dev/hde |
| 08:52.35 | Sargun | hey |
| 08:52.39 | bonez39 | my /etc/mtab shows the following: |
| 08:52.42 | bonez39 | hi sargun |
| 08:52.53 | bonez39 | Tene, is it ok to post a few lines in here? my mtab? |
| 08:53.37 | Sargun | /proc/mounts is more accurate. |
| 08:53.50 | Sargun | btw |
| 08:54.00 | bonez39 | ok... |
| 08:54.27 | bonez39 | can I post my /proc/mounts here? |
| 08:54.34 | bonez39 | I won't get booted right? |
| 08:54.43 | *** join/#utah dilvie (n=chatzill@c-67-166-126-133.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 08:54.46 | Sargun | as long as no admins are looking. |
| 08:54.50 | bonez39 | ok.... |
| 08:54.56 | bonez39 | rootfs / rootfs rw 0 0 |
| 08:54.56 | bonez39 | /dev/root / ext3 rw 0 0 |
| 08:54.56 | bonez39 | proc /proc proc rw,nodiratime 0 0 |
| 08:54.56 | bonez39 | sysfs /sys sysfs rw 0 0 |
| 08:54.57 | bonez39 | /dev/root /dev/.static/dev ext3 rw 0 0 |
| 08:54.59 | bonez39 | tmpfs /dev tmpfs rw 0 0 |
| 08:55.01 | bonez39 | devpts /dev/pts devpts rw 0 0 |
| 08:55.03 | bonez39 | tmpfs /dev/shm tmpfs rw 0 0 |
| 08:55.05 | bonez39 | /dev/hde9 /home ext3 rw 0 0 |
| 08:55.07 | bonez39 | /dev/hde8 /tmp ext3 rw 0 0 |
| 08:55.09 | bonez39 | /dev/hde5 /usr ext3 rw 0 0 |
| 08:55.11 | bonez39 | /dev/hde6 /var ext3 rw 0 0 |
| 08:55.13 | bonez39 | usbfs /proc/bus/usb usbfs rw 0 0 |
| 08:55.15 | Sargun | ok... |
| 08:55.15 | bonez39 | there it is.... |
| 08:55.22 | dilvie | http://www.dilvie.com/erics-photos/2006-09-19_Jonnys/index.html |
| 08:55.28 | dilvie | tonight at Jonnys |
| 08:55.35 | bonez39 | my problem, is that I have these two older drives..and I have them commented out in /etc/fstab...no access to them..... |
| 08:55.37 | Sargun | what do you need? |
| 08:55.51 | Sargun | mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/hda1 |
| 08:55.54 | Sargun | eh? |
| 08:55.59 | bonez39 | I want to remove them from this machine...but if I do, I can't boot...apparently, something needed to boot resides on one of the drivers.... |
| 08:56.13 | Sargun | dilvie, are you the guy in the green thing. |
| 08:56.35 | dilvie | no, I'm the guy behind the camera taking the pictures |
| 08:56.37 | dilvie | do you like them? |
| 08:56.52 | bonez39 | Sargun, I am trying to figure out how to move whatever is needed to boot up...to my SATA drive on /dev/hde ..so I can take out these other drives |
| 08:57.23 | Tene | bonez39: file /dev/root |
| 08:58.28 | bonez39 | Tene, not sure what you are saying...... |
| 08:58.38 | Tene | run 'file /dev/root' |
| 08:58.44 | bonez39 | ok.. |
| 08:59.19 | bonez39 | scott@fyrenice:~$ file /dev/root |
| 08:59.20 | bonez39 | /dev/root: ERROR: cannot open `/dev/root' (No such file or directory) |
| 08:59.24 | Tene | Huh. |
| 08:59.29 | Tene | Just curious about that line. |
| 08:59.39 | bonez39 | yeah, that's the result, either as root or as user |
| 09:00.02 | Tene | what happens when you try to boot without the drives in? |
| 09:00.19 | Tene | and is it both, or only one that needs to be in there? try with each out individually. |
| 09:00.22 | bonez39 | it gets to a line that says VMI...something.....and just stops there.... |
| 09:00.37 | bonez39 | I tried with each out..a.nd I got grub errors...when I did that... |
| 09:00.51 | Tene | huh |
| 09:01.27 | bonez39 | the /proc/mount listing above..shoes /dev/root at '/' right? how can that be on /dev/hde if I can't boot up without the two drives? |
| 09:02.01 | Tene | it also shows /dev/root on somewhere else and something else on / |
| 09:02.03 | bonez39 | when I boot up without one or the other drive....I get POST and then loads the SATA driver...and then it hangs.......no error, just won't proceed any further |
| 09:02.11 | Tene | put your fstab on http://pastebin.ca/ |
| 09:02.16 | bonez39 | ok.... |
| 09:02.38 | Tene | also, get more specific information on what happens when booting with the drives out. |
| 09:03.34 | bonez39 | http://pastebin.ca/177256 |
| 09:04.30 | bonez39 | when booting...the screen shows..no primary or slave drives....but does show the SATA driver loading...and then saiys something about vmi driver..and then a few blank lines and nothing...just hangs..... |
| 09:05.30 | Tene | doesn't even get to grub? |
| 09:06.31 | bonez39 | well, it will give a grub error..and hang..or with one drive it wrote grub..repeatedly on screen.....scrolling fast...sort of like when Patrick Swayze's character in Ghost writs You Murderer..on the screen of his former work mate..... |
| 09:09.08 | bonez39 | any ideas? |
| 09:10.15 | bonez39 | sigh |
| 09:11.04 | bonez39 | sorry to bother you about this....tene |
| 09:12.02 | Tene | but with only the sata drive, it won't even get to grub? |
| 09:12.46 | bonez39 | with just the SATA drive...no grub.... |
| 09:12.57 | bonez39 | there is some code, somehow that resides on one of the drives....... |
| 09:13.32 | Tene | if it doesn't get to grub, then that's not the problem |
| 09:13.43 | Tene | check your bios settings to see if it even tries to boot there |
| 09:13.46 | bonez39 | no, I don't think grub is the issue..... |
| 09:14.35 | bonez39 | what about in the bios? I threw the drives back in...reset them..and they system booted back up,, with both drives back on and in this machine.... |
| 09:15.51 | bonez39 | as I understand it...the SATA driver loads..after all the bios loading goes on..and then it takes the attention of the system to the SATA drive...but clearly not completely in this case |
| 09:19.31 | bonez39 | dead end, eh? |
| 09:19.49 | bonez39 | darn that hans.....I bet he'd know |
| 09:22.44 | bonez39 | what am I looking for in the BIOS settings? |
| 09:31.07 | bonez39 | boo |
| 09:38.34 | bonez39 | thanks anyway, tene |
| 10:04.31 | bonez39 | tene? |
| 10:04.41 | bonez39 | another question...I think I have this almost finished... |
| 12:43.53 | goozbach | ~random |
| 12:43.58 | goozbach | ~rlart |
| 12:51.25 | *** join/#utah graphyx (n=graphyx@205.208.245.105) |
| 12:54.56 | emcnabb | ~lart goozbach |
| 12:55.47 | goozbach | cat /dev/mem | strings | grep -i llama |
| 12:57.33 | graphyx | I don't think cat string can be turned into a llama |
| 13:00.34 | goozbach | just see if you memory is full of llamas |
| 13:00.53 | goozbach | you're cat'ing /dev/mem |
| 13:00.59 | goozbach | then sending it to strings |
| 13:01.05 | goozbach | then looking for llamas |
| 13:03.27 | Tene | why don't you just strings /dev/mem ? |
| 13:04.06 | goozbach | strings doesn't work against a device |
| 13:04.15 | Tene | that's a good reason |
| 13:06.36 | graphyx | You have to have the cat to play with the strings. |
| 13:18.35 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 13:19.45 | goozbach | cat /dev/mem doesn't seem to work either |
| 13:22.01 | *** part/#utah ^Migs^ (n=Migs@205.122.50.21) |
| 13:26.00 | *** join/#utah spr (n=spr@c-24-10-162-63.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 13:29.53 | goozbach | http://catb.org/jargon/html/magic-story.html |
| 13:29.59 | goozbach | the magic switch |
| 13:50.14 | *** join/#utah redbeard1 (n=redbeard@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 13:50.25 | redbeard1 | aww |
| 13:50.25 | graphyx | but our aim is improving. |
| 13:50.33 | redbeard1 | gotta practice |
| 13:54.09 | levi | Good morning. |
| 13:54.57 | redbeard1 | mornin duder |
| 13:55.11 | redbeard1 | how bout that team, eh? |
| 13:55.28 | redbeard1 | they sure scored that field... point.. goal. basket. |
| 13:59.57 | redbeard1 | so, my brother in law sent me a cookbook from costa rica |
| 14:00.08 | goozbach | go! go my favorite sports team! GO! |
| 14:00.20 | goozbach | *honk!* |
| 14:00.21 | redbeard1 | he went through the table of contents and underlined the recipes that are actually authentica |
| 14:00.38 | redbeard1 | s/authentica/authentic/ |
| 14:01.18 | redbeard1 | and he told me that the rest are just filler crap for the cookbook, and that nobody there actually makes/eats that stuff |
| 14:03.02 | redbeard1 | goozbach: take luck! |
| 14:04.39 | levi | Mmmm, filler crap. |
| 14:09.15 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@64.72.210.10) |
| 14:17.14 | goozbach | redbeard1: so when's that ........BABY... due? |
| 14:17.51 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp29.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 14:19.39 | *** topic/#utah by elg -> The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. Read http://plug.org/node/28 . Fall is here |
| 14:20.53 | *** join/#utah [phoenyx] (n=tthorley@64.147.152.13) |
| 14:24.00 | goozbach | "you are a violent person" |
| 14:24.24 | goozbach | -- "AM NOT!, and if you don't think so I'll punch your lights out!" |
| 14:27.16 | *** topic/#utah by elg -> The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. Read http://plug.org/node/28 . Fall is here . goozbach is taking donations for sjansen's ransom |
| 14:27.56 | elg | -lart web programming |
| 14:28.01 | elg | and any form of presentation |
| 14:28.20 | redbeard1 | hey, where has sjansen been, anyway? |
| 14:28.22 | elg | I don't like massaging data into *ML |
| 14:30.53 | redbeard1 | and maquis, for that matter? |
| 14:31.23 | elg | just goes to show some people can't be trusted |
| 14:32.41 | goozbach | note to self: when running tcpdump with log rotation (eg. tcpdump -i eth0 port 389 -w ldap.log -C 5 ) make sure the directory is world writable, as tcpdump drops privs as it runs. |
| 14:33.02 | goozbach | elg: are you posting a ransom? |
| 14:33.05 | elg | i didn't know tcpdump did rotation |
| 14:33.14 | elg | i'd used tethereal for that |
| 14:33.15 | goozbach | yup the -C switch |
| 14:33.31 | elg | but tethereal's switches are insane |
| 14:33.42 | goozbach | I've been TRYING to use it to diagnose a very WEIRD ldap problem |
| 14:33.57 | elg | it's probably a message from sjansen in code |
| 14:34.10 | goozbach | but the tcpdump kept dying when it was trying to open the first rotation |
| 14:34.48 | goozbach | which I didn't notice because it takes a while to fill up 5 meg worth of frames |
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| 14:56.05 | *** join/#utah drip (n=drip@67.96.135.254) |
| 14:57.26 | goozbach | ~plug drip |
| 14:57.40 | goozbach | ~sponge drip |
| 14:57.50 | goozbach | ~bucket drip |
| 14:57.52 | ibot | ACTION throws a bucket of water on drip, "That one was for the smell!" |
| 14:59.28 | *** join/#utah albino (n=albino@nafpik.com) |
| 15:01.52 | drip | thanks I feel better now. |
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| 15:33.01 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 15:37.38 | *** part/#utah Kuyaed1 (i=Kuyaedz@gateway/tor/x-f33080a983bac181) |
| 15:42.22 | elg | -lart emcnabb |
| 15:46.12 | *** part/#utah phinux (n=phinux@iocane.cs.byu.edu) |
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| 15:55.18 | emcnabb | -lart elg |
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| 15:58.56 | rsimpkins | How do I update the output of ~plug? 'scratches head' |
| 16:03.27 | rsimpkins | TimRiker: If you get this. What do we need to do to get ~plug working correctly? |
| 16:04.25 | mheath | ~plug |
| 16:04.40 | mheath | ~literal plug |
| 16:04.42 | ibot | "plug" is "the Provo Linux User's Group (www.plug.org)" |
| 16:05.01 | mheath | Ah. Yeah. The main reply is some coded in thing |
| 16:05.26 | rsimpkins | Let me try messing around with things.... |
| 16:06.48 | rsimpkins | ~plug |
| 16:13.49 | tensai | ~rss http://www.plug.org/rss.xml |
| 16:14.30 | tensai | rsimpkins: I suspect the rss url is simply incorrect |
| 16:16.16 | rsimpkins | tensai: Doesn't TimRiker have to update that? |
| 16:16.19 | TimRiker | huh? wha? |
| 16:16.29 | rsimpkins | TimRiker: Can you please update the rss feed for ~plug ? |
| 16:16.36 | TimRiker | k |
| 16:17.44 | TimRiker | ibot: literal plug |
| 16:17.46 | ibot | "plug" is "the Provo Linux User's Group (www.plug.org)" |
| 16:17.52 | TimRiker | ~plug |
| 16:17.56 | *** join/#utah beandog (n=sdibb@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 16:18.01 | TimRiker | hmm |
| 16:18.21 | TimRiker | ~plugrss is <reply> see rss http://www.plug.org/rss.xml |
| 16:18.22 | ibot | okay, TimRiker |
| 16:18.27 | TimRiker | ~plugrss |
| 16:18.50 | TimRiker | looks like the other is a rss command. I'll fix it later. gotta run. |
| 16:18.54 | rsimpkins | k |
| 16:19.43 | *** join/#utah macnewbold (n=mac@69.2.248.251) |
| 16:20.53 | tensai | yeah, it's using http://www.plug.org/index.xml |
| 16:21.51 | macnewbold | Okay, I know there have to be some grub experts in here |
| 16:22.03 | macnewbold | I'm working with a friend (bonez) to get his box running again |
| 16:22.08 | macnewbold | he had a couple of old drives, |
| 16:22.25 | macnewbold | copied the data to a new drive (SATA, old ones were IDE), including the MBR, |
| 16:22.32 | macnewbold | but forgot to run grub, then couldn't get it to boot |
| 16:22.33 | beandog | yay, grub! |
| 16:22.39 | macnewbold | he's got it booting off a rescue disk now, |
| 16:22.44 | macnewbold | and he can get a grub prompt |
| 16:22.50 | macnewbold | what does he need to do next to get it booting? |
| 16:22.54 | beandog | root (hd0,0) |
| 16:23.03 | beandog | where (hd0,0) is the boot partition |
| 16:23.09 | beandog | then setup (hd0) to install it to the MBR |
| 16:23.28 | macnewbold | aha |
| 16:23.36 | macnewbold | anything else before he reboots? |
| 16:23.46 | elg | a glass of water |
| 16:23.49 | beandog | nooopies. |
| 16:23.50 | elg | with a lemon |
| 16:24.00 | beandog | Just make sure that root (hd0,0) works |
| 16:24.07 | beandog | It should say "found filesystem ext2" or wahtever. |
| 16:25.37 | synic | anyone know if there's a way to make a highly available nfs server using heartbeat /without/ drbd? |
| 16:25.43 | rsimpkins | Where is the logs ibot keeps for #utah? |
| 16:25.55 | elg | ~logs |
| 16:25.57 | ibot | apt/ibot/jbot/purl all log to http://ibot.rikers.org/<channelname>/ where channelname is html encoded ie: %23debian | lines that start with a space are not shown | some channels have stats at http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/<channelname>.html.gz, or updated "nightly" |
| 16:26.01 | elg | it's also linked to from the topic link |
| 16:26.07 | macnewbold | so how does that relate to the kernel command in grub? |
| 16:26.07 | rsimpkins | synic: 'highly available nfs server' - ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. :) |
| 16:26.31 | elg | macnewbold: it will be looking for menu.lst - do you not have one? |
| 16:26.36 | synic | I was being serious :P |
| 16:26.42 | beandog | macnewbold: right, menu.lst will have a config entry for hte kernel |
| 16:26.47 | beandog | Which will actually do something like this: |
| 16:26.50 | beandog | root (hd0,0) |
| 16:27.01 | beandog | kernel /boot/vmlinuz root=/dev/hda3 |
| 16:27.23 | macnewbold | very good |
| 16:28.16 | macnewbold | cool, thanks guys, |
| 16:28.20 | macnewbold | he's trying that right now |
| 16:28.37 | macnewbold | I'm a FreeBSD guy, so I don't ever have to mess with grub and lilo :) |
| 16:28.56 | *** join/#utah herlo (n=herlo@71-219-25-112.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 16:30.47 | beandog | what bootloader do they use |
| 16:31.59 | beandog | Now if you really wanna have fun, get grubsplash working :D |
| 16:32.11 | beandog | er, is that what its called? |
| 16:32.24 | beandog | pretty background grub image. hows that. :) |
| 16:33.36 | mheath | Yes. |
| 16:33.48 | mheath | Not hard to get working. |
| 16:33.59 | mheath | Just takes a patch and a one line directive in the menu file. |
| 16:34.25 | beandog | yahps |
| 16:36.42 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@001-785-588.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 16:36.42 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 16:49.22 | redbeard1 | ~lart neybar |
| 16:59.57 | *** join/#utah Robdor (n=rob@208.187.198.179) |
| 17:02.33 | mheath | Heh, I'll _still_ be one of the youngest full time students at WSU. |
| 17:02.48 | *** join/#utah nobell (n=nobell@degraffenried.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 17:03.48 | nobell | I have a friend who just deleted /dev on accident. The friend WASN'T me. does anybody know a fix for restoring /dev ? |
| 17:04.13 | levi | Heh, oops. |
| 17:04.42 | levi | I believe you can tar it up from another system. |
| 17:05.11 | mheath | nobell, On a modern linux system....reboot :) |
| 17:05.15 | mheath | Well, not quite true |
| 17:05.22 | mheath | you need to mkdev a couple of things like /dev/null |
| 17:05.29 | nobell | it's FreeBSD 6 |
| 17:05.45 | nobell | It should have a lot in common with any Linux platforms |
| 17:05.46 | mheath | Heh. Tar it up from another FreeBSD 6 system |
| 17:05.51 | mheath | or see if theres a /dev/MAKEDEV script |
| 17:06.02 | emcnabb | is your friend maquis? |
| 17:06.18 | emcnabb | she runs FreeBSD and has those types of problems all the time |
| 17:06.20 | emcnabb | :-) |
| 17:06.42 | nobell | not the same person. but it made me laugh to think about it. |
| 17:09.14 | nobell | would that do? /usr/ports/net/rboot/files/patch-dev::MAKEDEV |
| 17:10.11 | nobell | I think this problem is where linux is better - more utilities for fixing screw-ups. |
| 17:10.45 | nobell | That's not intended to belittle linux. |
| 17:14.13 | levi | That file might work, you'd have to look to see. |
| 17:24.06 | Keighvin | What would YOU do with a 5mW 532nm laser diode? |
| 17:24.28 | bigdog_ut | shoot my eye out |
| 17:24.51 | Jayce^ | yeah, I'd shoot your eye out too |
| 17:24.57 | bigdog_ut | lol |
| 17:25.03 | bigdog_ut | thanks Jayce^ |
| 17:25.11 | Jayce^ | annoy coworkers.... |
| 17:25.19 | bigdog_ut | lol |
| 17:25.24 | bigdog_ut | annoy anyone |
| 17:25.25 | *** part/#utah [phoenyx] (n=tthorley@64.147.152.13) |
| 17:25.47 | Jayce^ | point it to random parts of a cube-mates monitor... then pretend you can't see it |
| 17:27.33 | rsimpkins | I have eye damage from working with a 500mW helium-neon laser. |
| 17:29.22 | Jayce^ | "You'll shoot your eye out!!" |
| 17:30.12 | rsimpkins | My friends and I built a portable helium-neon laser. They work much better than typical laser pointers. |
| 17:31.12 | Keighvin | DANG!!: Do not look at laser with remaining eye. |
| 17:31.25 | Keighvin | This is a frequency doubled infrared YAG, if memory serves. |
| 17:31.40 | Keighvin | Hense the 532nm - extremely bright looking but pretty harmless green. |
| 17:32.09 | rsimpkins | Yeah, infrared lasers scare me. |
| 17:32.19 | graphyx | You can still lose your eyesight with a green laser.. |
| 17:32.24 | Keighvin | Very little of the IR wavelength makes it out. |
| 17:32.31 | Keighvin | Can, but at 5mW you'd have to try pretty hard. |
| 17:32.46 | graphyx | That may be the case. |
| 17:32.54 | Keighvin | The driving circuit is toast, so a buddy of mine donated the carcass to me. |
| 17:33.16 | Keighvin | I can still get a good stable beam out of it if I bypass those controls, at the risk of reduced component lifetime. |
| 17:33.22 | Keighvin | But for just fiddling, that hardly matters. |
| 17:34.28 | graphyx | http://www.wickedlasers.com/ |
| 17:34.42 | graphyx | "Astronomy : With a shaft of green light that seems to literally touch the stars, point out celestial objects to the naked eye. Velcro mounted on a telescope, you have the power to aim more quickly." |
| 17:34.53 | Keighvin | Oh, don't I know it. |
| 17:34.59 | graphyx | Always makes me raise an eyebrow when they market a laser for pointing things out at the sky.. |
| 17:35.11 | Keighvin | The Spyder models in the Wicked series are things of true beauty. |
| 17:35.22 | graphyx | "Useful for marking airplanes for missile strikes, blinding commercial pilots, |
| 17:35.23 | Keighvin | The probability of intersecting with anything sensitive is extremely low. |
| 17:35.57 | graphyx | Well There was a guy who got the book thrown at him when he was spotting a police helicopter. |
| 17:36.07 | Keighvin | Yeah, not going to do that. |
| 17:36.32 | Keighvin | And I'm resisting the urge to place it at eye-level in the rear window of my commute car (even though this IS Utah and I'm sure it would prove useful) |
| 17:36.36 | bigdog_ut | lol...he should have shot his eye out |
| 17:40.57 | *** join/#utah vex (n=vex@216.194.126.99) |
| 17:43.08 | Keighvin | ~lart him |
| 17:47.12 | *** join/#utah jnbek (n=jnbek@c-24-10-178-17.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 17:56.21 | emcnabb | I'm sure most people here have seen this, but if not... (Weird Al - White and Nerdy) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xEzGIuY7kw |
| 17:56.45 | emcnabb | very funny |
| 18:05.44 | Robdor | What would you guys say is an appropriate amount of time for testing and debugging software? Maybe 1/4 of the development time? 1/3? |
| 18:06.01 | goozbach | 5/4 |
| 18:07.08 | Robdor | really? |
| 18:07.38 | goozbach | http://www.deepastronomy.com/how-to-destroy-earth-with-a-coffee-can.html |
| 18:07.49 | goozbach | relase early and often |
| 18:09.21 | Robdor | Right. I'm having problems getting my boss to understand that you can't just bill and estimate project hours for development time. I don't think he wants to accept the fact that software has bugs and they require time to squish. |
| 18:10.56 | emcnabb | at work we freeze our devel tree for a month or two just for QA testing before we go live |
| 18:12.31 | Robdor | That's a good idea. We are moving from doing normal web sites to more extensive web applications, so we've never really needed QA people before. I'll have to talk him into that too. |
| 18:13.14 | emcnabb | and after all that work I'm still surprised at some of the bugs that get through the cracks |
| 18:13.26 | emcnabb | it would be many times worse without QA |
| 18:13.46 | Robdor | Do you outsource QA or have internal people for that? |
| 18:13.57 | emcnabb | internal |
| 18:14.22 | emcnabb | but we're a fairly large company |
| 18:14.30 | macnewbold | Robdor: it depends on the developers |
| 18:14.58 | macnewbold | where I work (www.codegreene.com) it's probably 10% or less, but only because we've developed practices we use that keep the bugs low |
| 18:15.30 | macnewbold | every team I've been on, the developer has done most of the QA, then they review the whole thing with someone else (manager, other developer, etc.) before they show it to the client |
| 18:16.00 | emcnabb | I guess it really depends on your situation |
| 18:16.11 | macnewbold | by the way, we're looking for part time or full time people still, if anyone in web developing is interested - probably $20-25/hr |
| 18:16.19 | macnewbold | it really does depend |
| 18:16.52 | Robdor | That's what we've been doing for the "normal" set of websites were doing, but we've now been hired to take on a really big web application and I don't think that our current practices are suitable for that kind of environment. |
| 18:17.08 | macnewbold | and it is different if you're developing one big site for your employer, or if you're a company that develops many sites all the time |
| 18:17.18 | macnewbold | taking months for QA would dwarf the development time |
| 18:17.35 | macnewbold | Robdor: yeah, I'd take a serious look at the QA aspect before you get going |
| 18:17.49 | graphyx | macnewbold: You got a link to the job offer? |
| 18:17.53 | macnewbold | someone (one of your people or someone at the client) needs to be doing some testing before you do a handoff |
| 18:18.11 | graphyx | Got some local friends there that may have interest. |
| 18:18.13 | emcnabb | for example, we do OSes, and lots of things can go wrong, so we need a longer development cycle |
| 18:18.15 | macnewbold | graphyx: lemme check, I think I've got the last one we used, it's pretty up to date though |
| 18:18.16 | Robdor | I agree. |
| 18:18.50 | macnewbold | graphyx: try this: http://www.codegreene.com/jobs/job_20060510.pdf |
| 18:19.03 | macnewbold | we filled that position, but the new one is pretty similar |
| 18:19.08 | graphyx | Ok. |
| 18:19.31 | macnewbold | Robdor: one thing we do that helps a lot is testing in small chunks, while you're still fresh on all the details of that piece |
| 18:19.48 | macnewbold | take care of it as much as possible before moving on to the next thing |
| 18:19.56 | macnewbold | then at the end, your global testing is much easier |
| 18:20.12 | *** join/#utah Kuyaedz (i=Kuyaedz@gateway/tor/x-65746e0b51c024a6) |
| 18:20.30 | *** part/#utah Kuyaedz (i=Kuyaedz@gateway/tor/x-65746e0b51c024a6) |
| 18:21.58 | Robdor | Right. I've usually relied on the client to do testing of the web site before gong live and doing unit testing throughout the dev cycle. I'm trying to explain that for big applications we need somebody that is "out of the loop" to do the main bulk of the testing. That way he isn't biased. |
| 18:22.29 | *** join/#utah amcnabb (n=amcnabb@c-24-10-162-63.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 18:22.59 | graphyx | macnewbold: I got a friend local there who is interested, any desire to do a "warm" transfer or should I just send him to your site? |
| 18:23.01 | macnewbold | Robdor: totally. Out of the loop is important. At least someone other than the guy who built that piece. |
| 18:23.16 | macnewbold | graphyx: either way. Whatever he'd prefer :) |
| 18:23.41 | graphyx | He wouldn't mind getting with you. Would IM or email be prefered? |
| 18:23.49 | Robdor | How much is the going rate for QA people? |
| 18:26.39 | *** join/#utah Cleetus (n=Cleetus@64.105.153.106) |
| 18:27.12 | macnewbold | graphyx: either one is fine with me. I've got other IM besides IRC if he'd like. He could also call on the phone, or stop by even. |
| 18:28.02 | Cleetus | hey macnewbold, this is graphyx's buddy (I assume you're talking about me :-D) |
| 18:28.04 | macnewbold | Robdor: it depends, I think. Some QA people are really good, and could easily be developers if they wanted, and so cost about the same. Others are no good as developers, but know the right places to test and how to describe the bug well for a dev to fix it. They're a little less |
| 18:28.08 | macnewbold | Cleetus: howdy! :) |
| 18:28.56 | Cleetus | love the envronment description in the jobs pdf |
| 18:30.32 | macnewbold | excellent |
| 18:30.36 | macnewbold | I love the environment too :) |
| 18:31.00 | graphyx | ~ping |
| 18:31.01 | ibot | pong |
| 18:31.21 | Cleetus | found it entertaining (and honest) regarding the windows-only guys |
| 18:31.36 | macnewbold | hehe, yeah, they'd be second class citizens around here, unfortunatly |
| 18:31.45 | Cleetus | lol |
| 18:31.46 | Cleetus | no worries |
| 18:31.48 | macnewbold | too hard to be productive in a windows environment :) |
| 18:31.56 | Cleetus | can be...yes |
| 18:32.19 | Cleetus | fortunately, I'm good with any |
| 18:32.37 | Cleetus | I've got a KVM set up for three different OS-es |
| 18:32.44 | macnewbold | that's great |
| 18:32.48 | Cleetus | OSX, WinXP and Ubuntu |
| 18:32.54 | Robdor | win95, 98, and ME? :) |
| 18:32.58 | macnewbold | sometimes we need someone to help with tech support for windows users who use our hosting stuff :) |
| 18:33.16 | Cleetus | pretty fluent in FreeBSD...I worked as tech support for Verio |
| 18:33.30 | Cleetus | plus I also do web hosting on the side with a private LLC |
| 18:34.00 | Cleetus | err...personal LLC, not private :-P |
| 18:34.03 | macnewbold | excellent, FreeBSD is my favorite. |
| 18:34.12 | Cleetus | good stuff |
| 18:34.16 | macnewbold | and we use it for our web hosting too (coloc at xmission) |
| 18:34.32 | macnewbold | and we've been looking for someone who could start taking some of the sysadmin load that I bear |
| 18:34.46 | Cleetus | :-D |
| 18:35.39 | macnewbold | if you're interested in that and the web dev side, you might be a great fit |
| 18:36.06 | macnewbold | we ought to talk more (privately probably) about your experience, education, qualifications, etc. |
| 18:36.09 | macnewbold | and see what we can work out |
| 18:36.25 | macnewbold | I'd probably be safe in offering you an interview if you want to come meet with us sometime |
| 18:36.25 | Cleetus | Where I work now all I do is web dev. I don't get to do too much sysadmin since the company goes through another hosting company |
| 18:36.33 | Tene | how do I use sed to modify files in-place? |
| 18:37.30 | macnewbold | man sed; see the -i option |
| 18:37.40 | macnewbold | or try perl instead ; man perlrun |
| 18:37.45 | macnewbold | either one can do it |
| 18:39.57 | Tene | Thanks. |
| 18:40.55 | Cleetus | definitely |
| 18:42.25 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (i=linuxali@gateway/tor/x-bc01000e9c58fd72) |
| 18:42.27 | *** join/#utah jsmith_ (n=jsmith@199.227.185.50) |
| 18:45.38 | Cleetus | wow that was horrible lag :-P |
| 18:46.51 | Cleetus | ~ping |
| 18:46.52 | ibot | pong |
| 18:47.17 | Cleetus | huh....oh well |
| 18:48.33 | macnewbold | Cleetus: what works best for you? email? phone? IM? in person? |
| 18:49.54 | Cleetus | right now....either email or IM |
| 19:16.59 | macnewbold | Cleetus: whenever is convenient. I'm off to grab lunch, but will be back a little later, for the rest of the afternoon. if you want to email me try: mac codegreene com |
| 19:22.32 | *** join/#utah lukfugl (n=lukfugl@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 19:40.02 | *** join/#utah Evan_ (n=Evan@c-67-182-211-240.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 20:09.01 | *** join/#utah findlay (n=justin@Brentwood-mikrotik.veracitycom.net) |
| 20:13.10 | redbeard1 | ~lart Keighvin |
| 20:13.44 | beandog | good ol hugh. |
| 20:14.09 | *** join/#utah scott (i=scott@crackaddict.com) |
| 20:14.21 | redbeard1 | beandog: you know he used to work with the forest service? |
| 20:14.52 | redbeard1 | back then, only hugh could prevent forest fires |
| 20:15.25 | redbeard1 | whoo hoo! scored an indirect hit on lukfugl! |
| 20:15.54 | lukfugl | that one hurt, too |
| 20:16.47 | redbeard1 | that reminds me of that space mission last year |
| 20:17.00 | redbeard1 | remember when they sent all those cows up into space? |
| 20:17.12 | redbeard1 | it was the herd shot round the world |
| 20:18.17 | lukfugl | well, do *you* know why polar bears are white? |
| 20:18.24 | redbeard1 | why? |
| 20:18.50 | lukfugl | simple genetics. All their maws and paws are white, too (and pointy) |
| 20:18.56 | beandog | hee hee |
| 20:19.07 | redbeard1 | nice |
| 20:23.47 | *** join/#utah findlay (n=justin@Brentwood-mikrotik.veracitycom.net) |
| 20:28.08 | redbeard1 | lukfugl has left the building |
| 20:29.34 | elg | pity |
| 20:31.21 | elg | http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/cellphones/bluetooth-star-trek-communicator-025437.php |
| 20:32.34 | *** join/#utah jnbek (n=jnbek@c-24-10-178-17.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 20:34.33 | graphyx | redbeard1: Did you head about when the tribal nation of the basks invaded upstate new york? They were all taken into custity when they tried to get off of the highway. Moral of the story.. Don't put all your basks in one exit. |
| 20:35.28 | redbeard1 | graphyx: did you know i was out in california a while ago, looking for gold? |
| 20:35.31 | redbeard1 | it didn't pan out |
| 20:36.00 | beandog | hee hee hee |
| 20:36.01 | beandog | thats great. |
| 20:36.16 | redbeard1 | when i was visiting my sister down south, we went to an elvis-themed steakhouse |
| 20:36.24 | redbeard1 | it was for people who love meat tender |
| 20:36.31 | graphyx | lol.. |
| 20:36.36 | graphyx | You probably know more than I/ |
| 20:36.47 | graphyx | My wife doesn't care for the jokes. |
| 20:37.12 | graphyx | Why are pirates mean? That's just the way they aaarrr... |
| 20:37.36 | graphyx | or you could do , why do pirates seem so mean, It's just they way they aaarrr... |
| 20:38.47 | redbeard1 | i was visiting the cathedral out in salt lake the other day... apparently attendance is low because people live too far away. |
| 20:39.07 | redbeard1 | so they're thinking about getting a bus and setting up mass transit |
| 20:41.04 | goozbach | that last joke I thought was serious until I read the backlog |
| 20:41.44 | redbeard1 | heh |
| 20:42.06 | redbeard1 | i blame Keighvin |
| 20:42.17 | redbeard1 | whether or not he knows it, he started this whole mess |
| 20:43.01 | graphyx | One day, Kermit came into the local bank to raise some money for his latest movie. The loan broker, my paddywack asked for some collateral. Kermit handed him a mismash of pocket lint, and other stuff. The loan broken didn't have a clue so he asked the bank manager what it was. He responded, "it's a nicknack, paddywack, give the frog a loan." |
| 20:43.47 | redbeard1 | in the version of that i've heard, the frog's dad was mick jagger (his old man's a rolling stone) |
| 20:44.53 | redbeard1 | i used to know a guy who was an accountant, until he quit and joined a commune |
| 20:45.01 | redbeard1 | he was a member of the counter-culture |
| 20:47.14 | graphyx | I was going to try to tell a linux pun, but I haven't hurd a gnu one recently. |
| 20:47.26 | redbeard1 | ooh, nice one |
| 20:47.43 | goozbach | what does a vegan zombie say? |
| 20:47.44 | *** join/#utah findlay (n=justin@Brentwood-mikrotik.veracitycom.net) |
| 20:47.51 | graphyx | grains.. I want to eat your grains.. |
| 20:47.56 | goozbach | GRAAAAIIINNNNNS! |
| 20:48.06 | redbeard1 | you know why elg decided to get into baking, right? he kneads the dough. |
| 20:48.42 | graphyx | You heard about the agnostic dislexic insomniac? He stayed up all night wondering if there really was a dog. |
| 20:48.43 | *** part/#utah beandog (n=sdibb@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 20:49.14 | elg | -lart redbeard1 |
| 20:49.34 | Cleetus | Know why ghosts like elevators? It lifts their spirits |
| 20:49.34 | graphyx | how appropriate of a lart. |
| 20:49.36 | redbeard1 | oh hey, elg... we were just talking about you |
| 20:50.28 | graphyx | a bot with a context aware lart engine would rock. |
| 20:50.36 | goozbach | it'd be hard |
| 20:50.53 | redbeard1 | you know, i used to play guitar, but it always made me nervous... i kept fretting about everything. |
| 20:51.08 | Cleetus | Show me a piano falling down a mineshaft and I'll show you A-flat minor. |
| 20:51.22 | graphyx | Umm... You could use google sets to try to map recent nouns into groups and grep for one of the new items google added. |
| 20:51.41 | graphyx | redbeard1: If you are ready for something new, I have a friend, says you can have a piano. No strings attached! |
| 20:52.16 | graphyx | Cleetus: I heard that once they accidentally dropped a piano over a military base and ended up with A flat Major. |
| 20:55.14 | *** join/#utah EpP (n=Evan@c-67-182-211-240.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 20:55.40 | graphyx | wow, were the last two bad enough to stop any more? |
| 20:55.55 | Cleetus | I couldn't quite remember how to throw a boomerang, but eventually it came back to me. |
| 20:55.57 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (n=von@207.108.168.33) |
| 20:56.19 | vontrapp | i unpacked the kernel source, and did make oldconfig |
| 20:56.37 | vontrapp | then it gives me a permission denied trying to run scripts/basic/fixdep |
| 20:56.37 | elg | ~lart vontrapp |
| 20:56.43 | vontrapp | i've never seen this before |
| 20:56.50 | vontrapp | and the permissions on the file are all in order |
| 20:56.51 | elg | did you try make clean as root? |
| 20:56.53 | elg | oh |
| 20:57.00 | vontrapp | no idea why it can't run it |
| 20:57.20 | vontrapp | i did head on the script, it starts with "ELF44(" or something like that |
| 20:58.02 | graphyx | The short fortuneteller who escaped from prison was declared a small medium at large. |
| 20:58.27 | Cleetus | An online poker tournament ended suddenly when the computer cached in its chips. |
| 21:05.42 | vontrapp | if i make distclean then scripts/basic/fixdep is gone |
| 21:05.49 | vontrapp | then i make oldconfig |
| 21:05.56 | vontrapp | it in turn makes fixdep again |
| 21:06.02 | vontrapp | and again, it fails |
| 21:06.06 | vontrapp | "permissions denied" |
| 21:06.15 | vontrapp | s/ns/n/ |
| 21:07.16 | vontrapp | all i need is to get the zd1201 module that i need for my wireless adapter |
| 21:07.41 | graphyx | Calendars always seemed to be depressed. But isn't only because they know from birth their days are numbered! |
| 21:07.47 | vontrapp | what could be causing this script dumbness? |
| 21:08.06 | goozbach | did you hear about the guy who robbed the calendar factory? |
| 21:08.10 | goozbach | he got six months |
| 21:08.14 | Cleetus | Old lawyers never die they just lose their appeal. |
| 21:08.21 | *** join/#utah amcnabb (n=amcnabb@c-24-10-162-63.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 21:09.20 | graphyx | Old programmers don't die, they just can't "C" as well. |
| 21:09.28 | vontrapp | elg: any ideas? |
| 21:16.21 | mrpull | http://www.pvrwire.com/2006/09/20/neuros-goes-open-source-with-its-latest-pvr-flash-card-recorder/ |
| 21:16.23 | mrpull | odd |
| 21:16.25 | mrpull | but cool |
| 21:47.51 | tensai | old graphyxes never die, we just beat them till they quit it with the lame jokes |
| 21:48.13 | Cleetus | nah...he just went home for the day |
| 21:48.23 | tensai | crud. I didn't notice. |
| 21:50.04 | Cleetus | he'll be back.....oh yes, he'll be back |
| 21:55.31 | findlay | ~back graphyx |
| 21:55.34 | ibot | Guess who's back. Back again. graphyx's back. Tell a friend. Guess who's back, guess who's back, guess who's back, guess who's back.. |
| 21:55.48 | findlay | ibot: I don't get it |
| 21:55.50 | ibot | You don't get it? |
| 21:56.04 | findlay | ibot: no |
| 21:56.05 | ibot | YES |
| 21:56.13 | Tene | ibot: explode |
| 21:56.14 | ibot | BOOOM |
| 21:56.15 | Cleetus | someone quick! findlay is having a conversation with ibot!!!! |
| 21:56.26 | findlay | ~humor-o-meter |
| 21:56.34 | Tene | Cleetus: how do I quick? |
| 21:56.41 | findlay | ~quick Tene |
| 21:56.50 | Tene | ~findlay findlay |
| 21:56.51 | ibot | ACTION recreationally nmaps findlay. |
| 21:56.59 | Cleetus | ~lart Tene |
| 21:58.12 | findlay | ibots don't die, we just nmap them into ooblivion |
| 21:58.17 | findlay | s/oo/o/ |
| 21:58.41 | findlay | ibot: thanks for fixing my truism about you |
| 21:58.41 | ibot | de nada, findlay |
| 21:58.57 | findlay | I knew it |
| 22:01.29 | findlay | s/i//gs |
| 22:01.34 | findlay | s/i//g |
| 22:01.40 | findlay | whatever |
| 22:02.14 | Cleetus | lol |
| 22:03.34 | vontrapp | hmmm, i think maybe i don't have support for elf in my kernel |
| 22:04.06 | Cleetus | you must not be a shoemaker.... |
| 22:06.44 | *** part/#utah Cleetus (n=Cleetus@64.105.153.106) |
| 22:20.30 | Keighvin | OK, that communicator hack is just too pretty. |
| 22:22.44 | goozbach | blargfooblarg++ |
| 22:24.50 | redbeard1 | ~lart Keighvin |
| 22:24.56 | redbeard1 | w00t! |
| 22:29.45 | Keighvin | ~lart redbeart1 |
| 22:30.19 | Keighvin | Dunno where that first 't' came from. |
| 22:32.46 | *** join/#utah Keighvin (n=ptomlins@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 22:41.00 | *** join/#utah jsmith (n=jsmith@199.227.185.50) |
| 22:47.30 | Keighvin | jsmith... Where do you work? |
| 22:50.08 | rsimpkins | Keighvin: jsmith is a super guru. |
| 22:53.32 | Keighvin | I'm just wondering if it's a jsmith I know. |
| 23:12.15 | mheath | Keighvin, no, he is not the first modern prophet of the mormon church. |
| 23:12.19 | mheath | Sorry to disappoint. |
| 23:14.46 | jsmith | Keighvin: Who are you? |
| 23:21.31 | Keighvin | No, I'm thinking of a John Smith. |
| 23:21.58 | Keighvin | With whom I'd worked at a fairly evil company. |
| 23:22.10 | Keighvin | (though John was nice) |
| 23:23.12 | Keighvin | But I guess I'll never know. |
| 23:27.40 | goozbach | jsmith is Jared Smith |
| 23:29.03 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=xbmodder@atarack/staff/xbmodder) |
| 23:29.15 | *** join/#utah jsmith (n=jsmith@199.227.185.50) |
| 23:30.00 | Sargun | hey jsmith |
| 23:30.03 | Sargun | how ya doing? |
| 23:34.46 | jsmith | Not bad... in Kansas City teaching an Asterisk class |
| 23:55.15 | Sargun | Has anyone got Linux to work with Bonjour? |
| 23:55.41 | mheath | Hmm. I think I'm going to redo this sytem... |
| 23:55.50 | Sargun | mheath, LFS? |
| 23:55.55 | mheath | Upgrade to cutting edge, ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="~x86" |
| 23:55.59 | mheath | easier to do from a base install |