| 00:09.45 | Sargun | how do you go about "doing" Metaphetamine? (Stupid school project) |
| 00:14.47 | EpP | Sargun, buy some meth... smoke it... |
| 00:14.51 | EpP | done. |
| 00:14.54 | Sargun | EpP, I mean |
| 00:14.56 | Sargun | what form |
| 00:15.04 | EpP | crystal |
| 00:15.05 | Sargun | you smoke crystals o.0 |
| 00:15.17 | EpP | no u sniff them |
| 00:15.19 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@208.64.90.18.utahbroadband.com) |
| 00:15.19 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@64.72.210.10) |
| 00:15.28 | EpP | or i think u can melt and inject |
| 00:16.28 | EpP | dunno... i odsnt do meth |
| 00:16.38 | Sargun | hacking is so overrated. |
| 00:17.57 | Sargun | In a completely unrelated utterance, could hacking be considered ethical if your doing to to save/protect a person. |
| 00:20.35 | *** join/#utah sontek (n=sontek@c-24-10-246-91.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 00:20.39 | Sargun | sontek, hey |
| 00:20.44 | sontek | hey Sargun |
| 00:20.47 | sontek | what you up to |
| 00:20.56 | Sargun | homework :-( |
| 00:21.01 | Sargun | yourself? |
| 00:21.16 | Sargun | high school drama :-P |
| 00:21.55 | sontek | just got out of work, now i'm chillin' at a coffee shop trying to get more work done =) |
| 00:22.18 | Sargun | fun |
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| 00:55.54 | levi_home | Good evening. |
| 00:57.08 | sontek | Good evening! |
| 00:57.45 | levi_home | Hmmm, time to find some scholarly resources on network discovery protocols and techniques. |
| 00:58.27 | sontek | And now I here I am thinking it was time for another machiato |
| 01:01.32 | levi_home | I get to write a paper on it, and it will help me at work as well. |
| 01:03.26 | *** join/#utah maquis (n=maquis@joanna.zmonkey.org) |
| 01:03.33 | levi_home | Hi, maquis! |
| 01:03.43 | Sargun | hi joanna |
| 01:03.47 | levi_home | Man, I love having access to ACM and IEEE libraries. |
| 01:04.00 | Sargun | lol |
| 01:08.34 | levi_home | Hmm, probably an autojoin. |
| 01:11.36 | Sargun | Anyone looking at becoming a: Embedded Linux Engineer (for set top boxes) |
| 01:16.20 | levi_home | Who's making them? |
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| 01:30.51 | Sargun | rsimpkins, I meet flygirl :-) |
| 01:34.21 | levi_home | Sargun: Who's making the set top boxes? |
| 01:34.55 | Sargun | www.apninc.com |
| 01:35.30 | levi_home | How are you related to them? |
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| 02:47.47 | tensai | ~rlart |
| 02:48.23 | findlay | ~unrlart |
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| 03:20.16 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (i=linuxali@gateway/tor/x-cbba772b225d5562) |
| 03:23.41 | EpP | Who here is in utah? |
| 03:23.54 | EpP | more specifically the SLC area. |
| 03:26.06 | linuxalien | I'm in Ogden |
| 03:26.50 | EpP | who is in utah and still like in highschool or freshmen in collage. |
| 03:26.51 | sontek | i'm in murray |
| 03:27.01 | EpP | sontek, how old? |
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| 03:32.45 | linuxalien | Not me |
| 03:33.38 | levi_home | I'm in the SLC area, but a little bit older than I was in high school. |
| 03:34.55 | Sargun | levi_home, how old are you? |
| 03:37.09 | levi_home | Tomorrow I will be 3 decades old. |
| 03:41.08 | findlay | ~happy birthday levi_home |
| 03:41.10 | ibot | ACTION sings the 'Happy Birthday' song horribly out of tune for levi_home |
| 03:41.25 | findlay | ibot: did not you know that is patented? |
| 03:41.27 | ibot | findlay: okay |
| 03:41.30 | findlay | ~sue ibot |
| 03:41.32 | ibot | ACTION files 50 lawsuits in 50 states against ibot, all in violation of Rule 11 |
| 03:41.39 | levi_home | I'm just pleased that PLUG is throwing a birthday party for me. ;) |
| 03:41.45 | findlay | ~did not you know that |
| 03:41.46 | ibot | methinks did not you know that is patented? |
| 03:41.54 | findlay | ibot: you are funny |
| 03:41.55 | ibot | findlay: what are you talking about? |
| 03:42.04 | findlay | levi_home: and a tux cake at that |
| 03:42.08 | levi_home | Indeed. |
| 03:45.34 | findlay | ~tux cake |
| 03:45.41 | findlay | ~sleep jsmith-asleep |
| 03:45.44 | ibot | ACTION sends jsmith-asleep to bed without supper |
| 03:46.21 | findlay | levi_home: what have you learned from your tour of languages? |
| 03:47.56 | levi_home | findlay: I've learned that my tastes lean far more towards Scheme and Lisp and far less towards Perl. |
| 03:48.19 | levi_home | Though now that I've got over the initial learning curve, Perl is not so bad. |
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| 03:48.40 | Tene | levi: have you read Higher Order Perl? |
| 03:48.47 | levi_home | It's forcing me to use my hated <expression> if <expression> construct, though. |
| 03:49.01 | findlay | but can you make qualitative judgements about computer languages in general? |
| 03:49.23 | findlay | levi_home: there are lots of simmilar constructs like that in perl |
| 03:49.26 | levi_home | findlay: They all suck in one way or another. |
| 03:49.32 | Tene | findlay: are you asking "are you capable of this now, with your increased knowledge" or "is that possible in general"? |
| 03:49.47 | levi_home | findlay: I know, and I hate them, but I use them because doing it the right way around forces you to be so much more verbose. |
| 03:50.05 | findlay | levi_home: do you say that as if there is the possibility of a language that doesn't have these negative attributes? |
| 03:50.26 | levi_home | findlay: I'm not sure if it would be possible to have a language that didn't suck in some way. |
| 03:50.28 | findlay | levi_home: indeed |
| 03:51.04 | levi_home | OCaml syntax is actually very similar in some ways to Perl, but doesn't require the verbosity. |
| 03:51.12 | findlay | is it reasonable to think of computing as a brand new field that will mature the same way as engineering? |
| 03:51.56 | Tene | Are there programming constructs that will one day hold the same status as the slide rule does today? |
| 03:51.56 | levi_home | I believe that it will mature, though not necessarily in the same way as engineering. |
| 03:52.17 | levi_home | Tene: Assembly language programming is almost there already. |
| 03:52.25 | Tene | Okay! |
| 03:52.28 | findlay | levi_home: indeed. It seems wholly different to me |
| 03:53.01 | findlay | Tene: I guess I was wanting some opinion on languages from levi_home's experience |
| 03:53.07 | levi_home | findlay: Largely, but not wholly. |
| 03:53.12 | findlay | true |
| 03:53.53 | findlay | so is it wrong to think of it as 'engineering'? |
| 03:54.01 | levi_home | We have better ways of analyzing the performance of physical designs than we do of software designs. |
| 03:54.15 | findlay | via software (: |
| 03:54.35 | findlay | but the concepts exist in vanilla mathematics I suppose |
| 03:56.00 | levi_home | Yeah, I'm referring to the mathematical tools for analyzing physical structures. |
| 03:56.58 | levi_home | But there are a great number of complexities involved, AFAICT. There are several scientific disciplines that feed into engineering knowledge. |
| 03:57.27 | levi_home | Static and dynamic physics, material science, etc. |
| 03:58.07 | levi_home | Plus experience and textbooks dating back to ancient greece. |
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| 03:59.17 | levi_home | And subtle engineering flaws can destroy otherwise stable designs, just as sutble flaws can cause difficult software problems. |
| 03:59.23 | levi_home | Witness the Tacoma Narrows bridge. |
| 04:01.11 | levi_home | I'm convinced that computer science and mathematics will feed into the nascent software engineering discipline and bring at least some degree of order and predictability to it. |
| 04:01.19 | levi_home | Though it may take a while. |
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| 04:37.15 | levi_home | Man, the maturity level on #perl is pretty low. |
| 05:08.11 | levi_home | findlay: So, is there a perlmongers meeting before PLUG tomorrow? |
| 05:26.21 | levi_home | Arg, my ACM portal is dead. |
| 05:26.48 | levi_home | s/portal/proxy |
| 05:43.59 | Tene | Hah, you said portal! |
| 05:49.02 | Sargun | hah! |
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| 06:33.29 | Sargun | What operating systems do ninjas use? |
| 06:34.46 | Tene | swords. |
| 06:35.21 | Tene | I only know one ninja, and he uses Windows. |
| 06:35.33 | Tene | Well, no, two, and they both use Windows. |
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| 07:54.29 | Tene | Stupid vim. I keep trying to press 'j' in firefox to scroll down. |
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| 12:26.00 | goozbach | ~seen glass-eye |
| 12:28.29 | ibot | glass-eye <n=slide@207.108.175.219> was last seen on IRC in channel #utah, 284d 8h 53m 19s ago, saying: 'i'm from utah originally though'. |
| 12:28.30 | goozbach | unum: FSLC dissapear? |
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| 13:09.06 | redbeard1 | mmm, tux cake! |
| 13:15.28 | goozbach | tux CAKE? |
| 13:15.30 | goozbach | ohh |
| 13:15.34 | goozbach | take pictures |
| 13:15.39 | goozbach | lots of pictures |
| 13:15.50 | goozbach | dibbs on the beak |
| 13:20.44 | atoponce | hahahaha! check it out: http://www.microsoft.com/oem/english/licensing/gsi/default.mspx |
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| 13:24.54 | atoponce | the best i've seen, though, is the false positives |
| 13:25.14 | atoponce | pirated copies that aren't being identified as such |
| 13:33.12 | graphyx | Those would be true negatives. |
| 13:33.25 | graphyx | False positives would be legal copied identified as pirated. |
| 13:34.11 | graphyx | Who has a good working knowledge of email servers and security implications? |
| 13:35.02 | graphyx | As far as authentication of the sender is concerned, does pgp(gpg) really have a stronger benefit above and beyond authenticated smtp/pop3/imap? |
| 13:36.51 | atoponce | graphyx: technicalities |
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| 13:38.24 | unum | goozbach: it came back |
| 13:43.30 | graphyx | Can I configure a mail server to not accept email coming from members of the domain it serves to prevent spoofed emails? |
| 13:43.35 | goozbach | unum: weird, I still don't see it |
| 13:43.57 | goozbach | ~nslookup fslc.usu.edu |
| 13:44.06 | mheath | Hmm. I'm now running all the Windows beta stuff right now.... |
| 13:44.15 | mheath | Office 2007, IE 7, Media Player 11 |
| 13:44.42 | mheath | Office 2007 was the big shocker. Complete UI rework in Word |
| 13:49.18 | atoponce | http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=15811 |
| 13:49.57 | atoponce | ^^-- "Martin Girard is a C++ software developer and former Linux evangelist trying to quit." |
| 13:50.34 | atoponce | i didn't know using linux was like smoking |
| 13:50.43 | mheath | haha. |
| 13:51.02 | graphyx | atoponce: What is he trying to quit? |
| 13:51.19 | mheath | I share a lot of his opinions about Linux not succeeding in the desktop market, but I have some ideas on how that could be fixed. |
| 13:51.27 | atoponce | linux, apparently |
| 13:51.33 | levi | atoponce: Boy, I've never seen an argument like /that/ before. I guess the reason Linux sucks so much more now than it did 10 years ago is because it's so much better as a desktop OS now. ;P |
| 13:52.25 | mheath | levi: He's not saying it doesn't operate well as a desktop OS. |
| 13:53.05 | mheath | He's saying that it won't suceded in comparison to commercial desktop OS offerings the way it is right now, and I agree. |
| 13:54.00 | levi | mheath: I'm saying it has moved steadily towards the attributes necessary for commercial acceptance through its lifetime, and that hasn't made it any less popular with the Lego Technics crowd. |
| 13:54.07 | atoponce | mheath: define commercial desktop os |
| 13:54.25 | mheath | atoponce, Mac OS [X] and Windows. |
| 13:55.11 | mheath | In my mind, there are three main reasons it won't succeed. |
| 13:55.27 | atoponce | what make mac os and windows commercial desktop os? |
| 13:56.21 | levi | atoponce: They are sold by companies for use on the desktop. |
| 13:56.58 | mheath | One is the reason he states: Unlike windows, which (though oft considered bloated) presents a single, unified base for application execution, a typical linux distribution is a plethora of open source software. This creates inconsistent compatability, branding, help systems, etc. not to mention the fact that the simple basics of the operating system present the user with thousands of choices. |
| 13:57.18 | atoponce | and where does that put redhat? suse? mandriva? ubuntu? etc? |
| 13:58.07 | mheath | atoponce, all of those are either enterprise-level operating systems or free operating systems with support options. |
| 13:58.32 | atoponce | you're playing with words |
| 13:58.44 | mheath | Besides, I didn't say that there weren't any commerical linux desktop operating systems; only that they can't compete with current market offerings. |
| 13:59.12 | mheath | Users don't want a plethora of options. They want something that works, and allows them to install and use the $10 value softwrae they bought at walmart while they surf the web on AOL |
| 13:59.29 | mheath | Linux also restricts users software and hardware choices. |
| 14:00.00 | mheath | And don't tell me that "oh, you can always find a Linux alternative, like 'Open Office' versus 'Microsoft Office'". That's not what I'm talking about. |
| 14:00.23 | atoponce | of course people want options. that's what make retail, fast food, autos, real estate, etc. do so well. choices. competition |
| 14:00.43 | mheath | I'm talking about the simple ability for a user to go to the store, browse all of the software, talk to a sales rep, and decide on what options are the best. |
| 14:00.50 | atoponce | that's what make monopolies like the dmv, post office, and public education so bad |
| 14:01.05 | mheath | Retail shopping is completely impossible with Linux right now, for both hardware and software. |
| 14:01.11 | mheath | Uers have to constantly research compatability |
| 14:01.42 | atoponce | not so much. hardware compatibility is becoming a thing of the past |
| 14:02.16 | atoponce | the major players all handle various hardware very well |
| 14:02.44 | mheath | atoponce, you use Ubuntu! Ubuntu has made great jumps in automatic compatability, consistent branding, and other issues. But it is the ONLY one that has put heavy emphasis in these categories. |
| 14:03.27 | atoponce | no. ubuntu is build directly on top of debian. fc and suse, including sled, also are great |
| 14:04.19 | atoponce | again, look at all the major players: gentoo, debian, ubuntu, suse, redhat, fc to start |
| 14:04.33 | mheath | So, you're telling me I can go down to Circuit City right now, and, without having to put a thought into compatabiltiy, I can buy the first printer-scanner-copier I like, and it will work?> |
| 14:04.39 | atoponce | linux is competing in the market just fine |
| 14:04.57 | atoponce | mheath: there should be no reason why not |
| 14:05.12 | mheath | atoponce, I actually did some research into that actually. |
| 14:05.37 | mheath | The local circuit city caries 10 models of all-in-one printers |
| 14:06.08 | mheath | Of those 10, 2 offer full compatability with Ubuntu, and neither of those are plug-and-play; they require additional setup. |
| 14:06.48 | atoponce | you tried out all 10 personally? |
| 14:07.00 | mheath | No, I wrote down model numbers and did research online. |
| 14:07.13 | atoponce | ahh |
| 14:07.58 | mheath | the problem is amplified with software selection |
| 14:08.09 | atoponce | out of those 10, how many are hp? canon? etc? |
| 14:08.44 | mheath | atoponce, I don't have the info anymore. They were mostly HP, though. |
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| 14:09.05 | mheath | (don't give me crap about not hanging onto that information; I threw out most of the things I own, I thought I was going to be USMC for years) |
| 14:12.02 | mheath | Wow, Microsoft integrated their online template library into the new file thing in Office now. |
| 14:12.16 | mheath | IE, you can find templates online through Word, rather than through the browser.. |
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| 14:17.31 | levi | Hah, MJD is awesome: http://www.plover.com/blog/prog/design-patterns.html |
| 14:20.40 | elg | yeah, I saw that the other day |
| 14:20.50 | elg | i'd rather do OOP in C than Perl anyday |
| 14:21.33 | elg | I agree mostly with his conclusions. However I also think that there are patterns that have been around since back then that will likely never be integrated into a language |
| 14:21.57 | elg | but some of the patterns in the GoF book are built-in or practically built-in to ruby and it's just like he says |
| 14:23.13 | levi | With an extensible language, one doesn't need to be the language implementor to add such features to a language. |
| 14:24.05 | levi | More languages today are becoming extensible by end-users, or at least a larger set of contributors. |
| 14:24.45 | elg | yes, true. and for many patterns you don't need to be a language designer to add patterns in a library. not quite the same but in both cases it requires your library/extensions to be present |
| 14:24.53 | elg | so it's not part of the language |
| 14:24.55 | levi | I also ran across a little essay he wrote on Lisp macros for the hop-discuss list about a year ago. |
| 14:25.31 | levi | elg: Making a package that extends a language seamlessly is the first step to having it included in the language. |
| 14:25.54 | elg | maybe. or just being the language designer and wanting that feature |
| 14:26.00 | elg | I reckon the latter is how it usually happens |
| 14:26.41 | levi | Well, if someone hands you a macro package implementing a feature you want in your language... |
| 14:27.01 | elg | "patches gratefully accepted" |
| 14:27.15 | elg | no different from another language, except that it was probably easier to write the macros |
| 14:31.11 | levi | I'm thinking more specifically of the history of Lisp. It started out with some pretty forward-looking patterns implemented invisibly in the language, but it continued to add them incrementally throughout its life. And those extensions started as macro packages, which could be implemented by anyone, not just someone who hacks compiler guts. |
| 14:32.30 | levi | Scheme has an informal 'SRFI' process that provides common language extensions through macro packages as well. |
| 14:32.33 | elg | yup, but unless you get your macro accepted by the dudes-in-charge, it's like a library as far as being available goes |
| 14:32.41 | redbeard1 | tux has entered the building |
| 14:32.47 | elg | -lart redbeard1 |
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| 14:33.01 | redbeard1 | ~ha ha elg |
| 14:33.07 | redbeard1 | ~haha elg |
| 14:33.10 | ibot | ACTION beats elg about the head with the ha ha bat |
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| 14:33.43 | encryptz | sorry- i connect to freenode using their hidden service, and i get disconnected from time to time |
| 14:34.06 | encryptz | it's worth it though for the security benefits |
| 14:34.22 | encryptz | i guess you could call it a love/hate relationship |
| 14:35.48 | levi | elg: I think you're discounting the importance of the free availability of libraries these days, too. Before open source got big, you mostly had to buy your compilers and libraries. |
| 14:36.31 | atoponce | brb- off to work |
| 14:36.34 | elg | oh it's definitely important that libs are free. but if you're not in control of the system it makes a rats tail of difference |
| 14:37.01 | elg | my point is more poignant in the days of non-free compilers and libraries |
| 14:37.07 | levi | elg: That's not true. With an extensible language, you are ultimately in control of the language you use. |
| 14:37.56 | elg | yes, you're right. sorry. you can usually also install libs in your home space. the point is not that you can't, it's that it's an extra effort that isn't automatically available anywhere that language is available |
| 14:38.13 | elg | which is a pain if you're a wanderer |
| 14:38.34 | levi | elg: But it is, if your language extensions are freely available and written with standard, portable language features. |
| 14:39.04 | levi | elg: This is fundamentally different than just a library, too, though the ability to use portable libraries is a smaller move in the same direction. |
| 14:39.08 | elg | no, the magic features I write don't magically follow me wherever I go just because I wrote them with standard portable language features |
| 14:39.19 | levi | elg: And why do they not? |
| 14:39.26 | elg | why would they? |
| 14:39.39 | levi | elg: Because you bring them with you? |
| 14:39.41 | elg | those would be some wiggy bits |
| 14:39.46 | elg | exactly. that's my point |
| 14:39.53 | elg | you have to lug them around as baggage |
| 14:40.00 | elg | i have a hard enough time lugging around my .bashrc |
| 14:40.45 | levi | So, you write every program from scratch with what comes from your compiler vendor? You never create utility libraries that you use in more than one unrelated project? |
| 14:41.07 | elg | not small ones, no. big ones that are worth copying around to use, yes. |
| 14:41.52 | levi | Well, you're not likely to create a language extension that makes a pattern invisible unless it's something you use frequently and consider it worth copying. |
| 14:41.55 | elg | I've more than once had the choice. Do I make a little extension to do this nifty but not big change to this standard ruby class, or do I just use the class as it's written? |
| 14:42.14 | elg | and the answer is use it as it's written because when I'm on a clean system I won't be crippled |
| 14:42.22 | elg | by my own cleverness. ok, crippled is a strong word |
| 14:43.10 | elg | no, I disagree. if I were always and ever on the same system I would do a lot of little hacks that make things more like I want them that I would definitely not consider worth copying around |
| 14:43.14 | levi | Presumably, with a significant software development effort, you're going to have multiple source files. What's one more if it allows you to write your program that much more clearly? |
| 14:43.32 | elg | and then i'd kick myself when I moved somewhere else. this is not speculation, it's experience |
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| 14:43.53 | elg | with a big project, of course |
| 14:44.11 | elg | with a small project, it's not always worth it |
| 14:44.38 | levi | This is not an issue with extending a language, it's the manner in which you've extended it. If you can encapsulate your changes so they are easily moved to a new project, then it's far more likely that you will. |
| 14:44.48 | elg | with a big project you use libraries that you and others have written, too. |
| 14:45.09 | elg | agreed. but it will always take some effort. |
| 14:45.41 | levi | Sure, but once that effort is taken, that extension is there and can be a part of your normal programming routine. |
| 14:45.47 | elg | let's take a different perspective. let's say I maintain myself a nice bunch of extensions that make my life easier |
| 14:46.21 | levi | I'm not saying this is the sort of thing you do every day; but when you discover a method to make a pattern you use all the time invisible, why wouldn't you? |
| 14:46.24 | elg | then one day I decide to contribute to project Foo. But the Foo developers aren't excited about accepting my set of extensions into their project just because I wanted to use them in the patch I'm providing. |
| 14:46.38 | elg | they wouldn't mind one extension, but then you have a logistic nightmare in how you maintain your set |
| 14:46.55 | elg | you are stuck with remembering how to do things without your set of extensions |
| 14:47.19 | elg | levi: yes. definitely a valuable thing to do, but not a thing without cost |
| 14:47.30 | levi | The cost decreases as more people use it, though. |
| 14:47.39 | levi | This works fairly well in the Scheme community, actually. |
| 14:48.02 | levi | Because the core Scheme language is so small, there is a lot of need for language extension to do useful things. |
| 14:48.03 | elg | yes, but it's no different from the evolution of a more static language other than that it's easier to implement |
| 14:48.17 | levi | No, it's fundamentally different. |
| 14:48.25 | levi | The language changes are user-driven, not vendor-driven. |
| 14:48.42 | elg | ok, a more static open source language without a crazy dictator that doesn't accept user input/patches |
| 14:50.04 | levi | No, because the users can make an end-run around the dictator, crazy or not, with an extensible language. |
| 14:51.15 | levi | A large subset of users that want a particular language feature can implement it for their usage and still use the same core language as the others who would not benefit from it. |
| 14:51.58 | levi | Whereas a non-extensible language must avoid adding features to the core language due to language bloat and feature creep. |
| 14:52.46 | elg | yes, i agree with that. however inasmuch as it's the same process as adding libraries for use in that language (I know extensibility is more powerful, certainly from a usability POV), it's the same |
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| 14:54.25 | levi | Yes, it's the same sort of process, but it doesn't produce the same pattern-hiding effect. That's the whole point of patterns; you can't just implement them with a regular library. |
| 14:54.47 | levi | The fact that the process works with libraries in more static languages just emphasizes my point. |
| 14:55.37 | findlay | levi: probably |
| 14:55.38 | elg | my point isn't related to how dynamic language extensions and libraries differ, which they do, just with the effort of distributing changes |
| 14:56.03 | elg | a change is a change and must be distributed, and that takes effort, and so is not always worth it. often it is, of course |
| 14:57.21 | levi | elg: Sure, that is a concern, but distribution problems are a much smaller hurdle than not being able to make extensions at all. |
| 14:57.29 | elg | agreed |
| 14:57.57 | levi | elg: They limit the sorts of extensions you'd want to create, but still allow for the creation of powerful abstractions when the opportunity arises. |
| 14:59.11 | elg | for a concrete example, take the observer pattern. In ruby you can excercise the basic pattern with no effort at all, but you could write an extension/lib to provide a more sophisticated observer pattern. but it's not worth it unless you need all those features in a big project |
| 14:59.43 | levi | Well, as you say, you can already do it with very little effort. |
| 15:00.16 | elg | no, they're not the same it |
| 15:00.28 | levi | Consider a language with extensibility, but no object-oriented abstractions. |
| 15:00.35 | elg | they're different its. one is good enough for most stuff. it's a little teensy pattern but it's still a pattern |
| 15:00.59 | elg | the other is a full-blown many-featured lib or extension to existing class(es) |
| 15:01.01 | levi | I understand what you're saying; maybe my reply wasn't clear. |
| 15:02.18 | levi | The fact that using the pattern involves little code means that the benefit deriving from making it invisible is smaller than if it required a lot of boilerplate code to use. |
| 15:02.49 | elg | yes, that's succinctly put |
| 15:03.06 | elg | and imho one of the biggest advantages of such languages |
| 15:03.54 | levi | Imagine, however, a pattern that requires a strict discipline and lots of code to implement in Ruby. |
| 15:04.42 | levi | In projects that would benefit from the pattern, it would make sense to use a language extension to alleviate the need for the extra discipline, bookkeeping, and code overhead. |
| 15:08.23 | levi | For example, with C, you are stuck with manual bookkeeping and discipline if you want to write object-oriented code. In a hypothetical 'extensible-C' language, an extension could be written in the standard language that provides the same level of OO abstraction that C++, for example, would provide. |
| 15:09.38 | levi | That extension could then be distributed to other extensible-C users, and become a de-facto community standard. Eventually, when the next extensible-C official standardization comes around, it could be included in the language. |
| 15:10.03 | levi | But users of extensible-C wouldn't have to wait for it! |
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| 16:01.32 | atoponce | unum: ping |
| 16:01.47 | unum | atoponce: pong |
| 16:01.56 | atoponce | check pm |
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| 16:12.07 | mheath | I feel good. Just got done applying for two jobs that I'd really like, that pay pretty well (for a 17 year old), and that I'm actually qualified for |
| 16:14.56 | *** join/#utah Robdor (n=rob@208.187.198.179) |
| 16:17.05 | findlay | ~ping |
| 16:17.07 | ibot | pong |
| 16:17.08 | findlay | ~pong |
| 16:17.09 | ibot | | . |
| 16:17.21 | mheath | if anyone knows of any other things I could apply for, it would be appreciated.... |
| 16:17.39 | emcnabb | I hear you can make a lot from drug dealing |
| 16:18.03 | mheath | Indeed. I'll look into thatt. |
| 16:18.15 | \me | mheath: I thought you were going to be in the military |
| 16:18.26 | mheath | ..... |
| 16:19.01 | mheath | OK, I think this is going to be about the 5th time I've said this in here: |
| 16:19.05 | emcnabb | \me: don't bring it up |
| 16:19.17 | mheath | I hurt my knee really badly when I was in basic training, and got kicked out. |
| 16:19.53 | \me | ah man - that sucks. Sorry to hear that |
| 16:20.17 | \me | do you still get all the cool military benefits now for being injured in the military? |
| 16:21.05 | mheath | \me, no, because one genous sargeant decided that it _had_ to be related to a minor knee injury over a year ago (despite it being a different part of the knee, different type of injury) |
| 16:21.22 | mheath | I don't even get the 60 days transitional health care, because someone messed up on my paperwork. |
| 16:21.25 | \me | stupid sargeants |
| 16:22.02 | \me | I had an old roommate that got like a $1500 check every month for having some digestive issue in the Academy which got him out of the military |
| 16:22.23 | \me | he even tried to stop them from sending it |
| 16:23.07 | mheath | If anyone knows of any entry level computer jobs, let me know.... |
| 16:23.42 | \me | mheath: you might check backcountry.com - they're always looking, but the pay sucks |
| 16:24.10 | \me | get any promises in writing, too :-) |
| 16:24.17 | Robdor | mheath: Are you in the Provo area? My company is looking for people... |
| 16:24.49 | mheath | Ogden. Willing to commute, but not sure about Provo...thats a _long_ commute.. |
| 16:24.49 | elg | http://www.qwantz.com/ |
| 16:24.50 | \me | mheath: e-mail djenkins@backcountry.com and let him know I referred you (I don't get a referral bonus any more) - he'll let you know if there's something for you |
| 16:25.19 | mheath | \me, whats your name? He'd probably think I was crazy if I told him "\me referred me" |
| 16:25.25 | \me | mheath: Jesse Stay |
| 16:25.27 | elg | what about living in happy valley, if the pay is good enough? (not that I have any leads) |
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| 16:25.36 | elg | -lart jsmith |
| 16:25.50 | goozbach | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:25.51 | \me | his name is Dave Jenkins - he's the CTO, but he makes all the final hiring decisions |
| 16:25.52 | goozbach | heh |
| 16:26.50 | \me | I should see if I can still get a commission on referrals there :-) |
| 16:27.51 | mheath | Robdor, what kind of a position is your company looking for? |
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| 16:28.08 | mheath | elg, depends on the position. Maybe =\ |
| 16:28.10 | Robdor | Web Developer, mostly Ruby on Rails and supporting some legacy PHP stuff. |
| 16:28.51 | vontrapp | is there any way to tell a wireless driver to ignore such requests as IEEE80211_ASSOC_REQ and IEEE80211_REASSOC_REQ? |
| 16:29.04 | mheath | I'm not qualified. I know PHP well, but not Ruby on Rails. I learn very fast, but I doubt they're looking for someone to train. |
| 16:29.06 | \me | mheath: I know they were looking for an html guy that could maybe eventually move in as a developer, as well as a Junior desktop admin |
| 16:29.12 | vontrapp | i get a flood of those every 5 minutes or so |
| 16:29.29 | mheath | \me, awesome. I'm great with HTML. |
| 16:29.29 | vontrapp | and it wreaks havok on my connection |
| 16:29.44 | Robdor | mheath: We end up training, and learning Ruby on Rails seriously only takes a few days if you've done web development before. |
| 16:30.13 | mheath | Robdor, what would the pay be like? |
| 16:30.34 | Robdor | mheath: I'm not sure, let me find out. |
| 16:30.47 | vontrapp | any python gurus? |
| 16:31.20 | vontrapp | i have "response.write(attachment.filedata)" |
| 16:31.47 | \me | I think my new company is looking for developers, but they're all mostly senior/team lead type positions |
| 16:31.48 | vontrapp | the error says the argument (attachment.filedata) must be "string or read-only character buffer, not array.array" |
| 16:32.58 | vontrapp | i don't get how attachment.filedata is an "array.array" |
| 16:33.36 | vontrapp | it's just a member that contains an sql field (binary field) |
| 16:33.50 | vontrapp | type longblob in mysql |
| 16:35.59 | mheath | \me, just sent the e-mail off to Mr. Jenkins |
| 16:36.04 | elg | vontrapp: try this: __self__.unarray.unarray.thearray__frunctor(attachment.filedata) |
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| 16:38.44 | Robdor | mheath: Not as much as I thought, 9$ - 13$/hour (negotiable) and 20 - 25 hours a week. It's a good job for students because hours are pretty forgiving as long as projects get done. |
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| 16:39.16 | mheath | heh, but it would be an hour long commute for me, and I'm not going to relocate for $9 / hr |
| 16:39.28 | Robdor | That's understandable :) |
| 16:40.15 | vontrapp | elg: lol |
| 16:40.31 | rsimpkins | 'self__.unarray.unarray.thearray__frunctor(attachment.filedata)', whoa, and people thing Perl is bad. /me ducks. |
| 16:40.42 | mheath | Besides....I'm competant with programming, but I don't think I'd be too happy doing that as a career for the rest of my life. |
| 16:40.49 | vontrapp | it said it didn't want an 'array.array.unarray.frunctor.not_array.not_string_either' |
| 16:41.02 | mheath | I'm more looking for a systems admin / comp tech position, I guess |
| 16:41.24 | rsimpkins | mheath: Do you have a resume? |
| 16:41.30 | mheath | rsimpkins, yes. |
| 16:42.22 | vontrapp | waiting, always waiting for a dumb page to load |
| 16:42.29 | vontrapp | i need a reliable internet source |
| 16:43.04 | rsimpkins | vontrapp: The Internet is a series of tubes, not a truck. |
| 16:43.25 | rsimpkins | vontrapp: Things are always getting jammed in the tubes, and slowing down my Internet. |
| 16:44.26 | *** join/#utah jsmith (n=jsmith@64.251.119.206) |
| 16:44.41 | vontrapp | well, i need an end-tube that's not constantly jammed itself |
| 16:47.15 | elg | vontrapp: move into the library |
| 16:48.39 | levi | elg: I LOVE Dinosaur Comics! |
| 16:50.37 | [phoenyx] | rsimpkins: just blast a lottery ball through your tubes every so often |
| 16:53.05 | graphyx | mheath: I thought you were joining the armed forces. |
| 16:53.13 | mheath | ..... |
| 16:53.34 | rsimpkins | [phoenyx]: Ten movies streaming across that, that internet, and what happens to your own personal internet? I just the other day got...an internet was sent by my staff at 10 o'clock in the morning on Friday, I got it yesterday. Why? |
| 16:53.57 | [phoenyx] | lol |
| 16:54.19 | rsimpkins | graphyx: He was discharged tragically due to a fluke medical issue. |
| 16:54.36 | [phoenyx] | mheath: maybe we should add it to the channel topic |
| 16:54.36 | graphyx | rsimpkins: Oh.. |
| 16:54.43 | graphyx | Didn't hear about that. |
| 16:54.58 | rsimpkins | If you have ever had your dreams crushed, you know how he feels. |
| 16:55.16 | mheath | graphyx, scroll up. You'll see me telling people about it. Over. And over. And over again. |
| 16:57.03 | rsimpkins | So, everyone is coming tonight I hope. |
| 16:57.18 | rsimpkins | I'd like to see what Jayce^ does when 75 people show up at United Online. ;) |
| 16:58.00 | graphyx | mheath: Sorry to hear that. |
| 17:04.22 | \me | I'll be there |
| 17:04.32 | \me | first time in like 5 years I think |
| 17:05.23 | \me | In fact, I think the last one I was at was the 5 year reunion |
| 17:05.37 | \me | kinda like a Christmas and Easter thing if it were a church |
| 17:06.22 | \me | It's hard to get out there now that I'm in SLC |
| 17:06.51 | findlay | rsimpkins: they'd probably call the police or something (: |
| 17:07.27 | findlay | at least they freaked out once when I showed up, but that was probably just me |
| 17:07.43 | \me | I don't even know what half of you look like |
| 17:08.09 | \me | we should play guess who's who tonight - that would be fun |
| 17:10.11 | \me | hey - anyone know if fairplay is implemented on the new movies you can buy on itunes now? |
| 17:10.24 | \me | I'd like to know if I can stream them over to my Xbox or not |
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| 17:47.03 | \me | anyone know if Mike Handy and Thayne will be there tonight? |
| 17:49.04 | goozbach | I wish I could be there tonight |
| 17:49.07 | goozbach | hmm... |
| 17:49.12 | goozbach | if I left NOW |
| 17:49.23 | goozbach | that'd be fun |
| 17:49.38 | elg | if you left now on a plane, maybe |
| 17:50.02 | goozbach | it'd probally cost a cubic buttload as well |
| 17:50.43 | levi | Perhaps even a quadratic buttload. |
| 17:52.37 | \me | or even a cubical buttload |
| 17:52.56 | \me | with post-it notes |
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| 17:57.55 | goozbach | long live Borat |
| 17:58.01 | goozbach | I blame canada |
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| 18:10.59 | levi | Heh, awesome... http://www.dontdownloadthissong.com/ |
| 18:13.46 | mrpull | levi: i'm not a wierd al guy, but that is awesome |
| 18:14.21 | levi | Gotta love the video. |
| 18:14.34 | levi | His parody song 'Canadian Idiot' is pretty funny, too. |
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| 18:29.02 | amcnabb | Is there Perl Mongers tonight? |
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| 18:36.24 | emcnabb | ~lart amcnabb |
| 18:41.12 | amcnabb | ~lart emcnabb |
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| 19:20.11 | rsimpkins | amcnabb: I belive there is NUPM tonight, but maybe we want to re-think that with such a big PLUG planned? |
| 19:21.02 | amcnabb | You never know. |
| 19:21.51 | rsimpkins | It is hard to guague how many people will come to a meeting like this. |
| 19:21.59 | rsimpkins | I know a few are making a special trip. |
| 19:23.05 | \me | do I need to eat dinner beforehand for this, or is more than cake going to be there? |
| 19:23.59 | rsimpkins | I'm not sure we got more than cake, at least nothing has been announce. |
| 19:24.04 | rsimpkins | So I would plan on eating dinner. |
| 19:24.59 | \me | k - it's a little late for dinner anyway |
| 19:25.04 | rsimpkins | Yeah. |
| 19:25.20 | \me | although I just had a big lunch at q4u |
| 19:25.27 | rsimpkins | It's hard to do that on a budget unless you make everyone RSVP or something. |
| 19:26.11 | \me | yeah |
| 19:26.17 | rsimpkins | I would like to see PLUG gain more professional notice so that local companies would be more willing to participate by donating things like food. |
| 19:26.26 | \me | cool - fcc to allow unlicensed devices on analog tv spectrum |
| 19:28.28 | redbeard1 | \me: where did you see that? |
| 19:29.20 | \me | redbeard1: link from digg: |
| 19:29.20 | \me | http://digg.com/tech_news/FCC_will_allow_unlicensed_devices_in_analog_TV_spectrum |
| 19:29.25 | \me | haven't read the article yet |
| 19:29.31 | \me | so maybe inacurrate |
| 19:30.52 | redbeard1 | digg? |
| 19:30.55 | redbeard1 | that's still around? |
| 19:36.49 | Robdor | speaking of digg, anybody see this one? http://digg.com/security/Worlds_worst_hacker_hacks_127_0_0_1 |
| 19:37.32 | Robdor | It's probably the best article I've every seen on there... |
| 19:37.41 | Robdor | s/every/ever |
| 19:38.32 | dilvie | http://www.revolutionvoid.com/RV005/ |
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| 20:00.27 | harleypig | http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006420095,00.html |
| 20:06.31 | redbeard1 | \me: i just started reading that article. it refers to unused "white spaces" in the spectrum. my guess is that they'll probably do the same sort of thing they're already doing in radio. |
| 20:07.12 | redbeard1 | that being the case, i'm also guessing that you'll still get fined pretty heavily for hijacking an existing tv signal. |
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| 20:24.08 | Tene | Argh. This is frustrating. |
| 20:24.18 | Tene | I can't convince these table cells to go to a specific height. |
| 20:24.37 | Tene | I set height: 100px; in the css, but they just... aren't affected. |
| 20:30.25 | \me | darn - had my hopes up ;-) |
| 20:34.13 | \me | Tene: have you tried ditching the table cells and just using divs? |
| 20:34.25 | \me | probably less html that way |
| 20:34.38 | Tene | Trying to hack on an existing layout. |
| 20:35.50 | \me | is there another id in there with the same name for that table cell? |
| 20:36.13 | \me | or perhaps some other style overriding that particular cell's style |
| 20:37.37 | Tene | No, there isn't |
| 20:38.07 | \me | is it a table w/i a table? |
| 20:38.31 | Tene | it's... stupid. |
| 20:38.59 | \me | ~lart tables |
| 20:39.57 | \me | tables are so 90s |
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| 20:44.35 | elg | thanks brac |
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| 20:59.49 | [phoenyx] | http://www.wikihow.com/Dissuade-Yourself-from-Becoming-a-Blogger |
| 21:03.16 | mheath | Haha, want to know something funny? |
| 21:03.21 | \me | ~rlart |
| 21:03.29 | [phoenyx] | mheath: what? |
| 21:03.32 | mheath | While I was in Basic training, I STILL got advertisements inviting me to join the National Guard. |
| 21:03.52 | \me | heh - sounds like me and Vonage |
| 21:04.02 | mheath | I'm now inneligible to join any military service, and I'm still getting them. |
| 21:04.36 | mheath | They have computer databases and such that reflect that I'm inelligible - however, when you actually start to deal with the military, you'll realize how disorganized it can be.... |
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| 21:05.54 | levi | I've been aware of the disorganization of the military for a very long time. :) |
| 21:06.10 | levi | Especially when it comes to anything related to computers. |
| 21:07.06 | *** part/#utah Kuyaed1 (i=Kuyaedz@gateway/tor/x-cbd0a7e654852f7b) |
| 21:07.18 | mheath | levi: You'd be even more surprised....like how disorganized the supply system that processes hundreds of people weekly is, for example (it's run by a lazy elderly grandmother) |
| 21:07.18 | JoshH | they're a bunch of unorganized grabastic pieces of amphibian... well nevermind |
| 21:07.19 | elg | wow. we're in a tornado warning here |
| 21:07.41 | mheath | Hmm, I can't put my military time in on the Best Buy application |
| 21:08.00 | mheath | because I was 'involuntary termanated', but that is rather negative sounding, when it wasn't.... |
| 21:08.16 | JoshH | wasn't it a "medical discharge"? |
| 21:08.22 | elg | http://www.srh.noaa.gov/showsigwx.php?warnzone=NMZ032&warncounty=NMC013&local_place1=Las+Cruces&product1=Tornado+Warning |
| 21:08.38 | \me | elg: cool - see any tornadoes? |
| 21:08.53 | elg | no, I'm gonna go out and take a gander |
| 21:08.59 | elg | I saw some interesting clouds |
| 21:09.07 | elg | but nothing made me think tornado |
| 21:10.35 | *** join/#utah nick125_lappy (n=nick@dsl093-220-003.abq1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 21:12.44 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp29.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 21:23.40 | mheath | \me, backcountry.com just called me |
| 21:23.51 | mheath | I have to do a phone interview with a group of them in 10 minutes |
| 21:24.00 | mheath | :) |
| 21:24.31 | fozzmoo | Oh fun. backcountry.com |
| 21:25.38 | mheath | interviews always make me nervous |
| 21:27.03 | mheath | this is a phone interview with a group of them.....two more reasons to be nervous |
| 21:27.30 | mheath | fozzmoo, good or bad? :P |
| 21:27.47 | harleypig | In some alternate universe there's a Batman movie where Crispin Glover is playing the greatest Joker of all time. |
| 21:28.11 | mheath | harleypig, here what happened? |
| 21:28.18 | harleypig | mheath: I thought you went to boot? |
| 21:28.20 | harleypig | no |
| 21:28.27 | mheath | harleypig, bad knee injury, got kicked out. |
| 21:28.37 | harleypig | Duuude. |
| 21:28.43 | harleypig | that sucks bottom mud |
| 21:28.49 | mheath | Yep. |
| 21:32.26 | fozzmoo | mheath: Cool guys. |
| 21:33.03 | fozzmoo | mheath: pay is iffy and when I talked to them (4 years ago or so), they were in Heber and didn't want let anyone telecommute. Not sure what it's like now. |
| 21:33.24 | fozzmoo | mheath: But, like I said, cool guys, cool company. |
| 21:33.46 | elg | neat. that was an awesome hailstorm |
| 21:33.58 | elg | too bad in the thick of it you can't see the cloud formations |
| 21:35.03 | elg | i went out to look, lots of people gaggling at the clouds |
| 21:37.16 | amcnabb | This page has one of the coolest pictures I've ever seen: |
| 21:37.18 | amcnabb | http://tnx.nl/php |
| 21:37.27 | amcnabb | That's really clever |
| 21:38.29 | mheath | Wow, that interview went really well :) |
| 21:40.41 | mheath | The 'scenario' they presented me with (they asked a bunch of questions) was just how I would handle a bunch of computers whos clocks are occasionally getting out of sync |
| 21:41.04 | mheath | NTP, obviously.... |
| 21:41.17 | *** join/#utah vex (i=nwood@stutter.prohosting.com) |
| 21:41.38 | mheath | \me, thanks, those guys are really awesome :) |
| 21:41.46 | mheath | said they'd be in touch..hope thats true . |
| 21:42.07 | fozzmoo | mheath: congrats |
| 21:43.29 | elg | -lart *mcnabb |
| 21:44.21 | harleypig | ~rlart |
| 21:44.24 | mheath | I need to go read up on CUPS some |
| 21:44.32 | mheath | I get the impression they have a LOT of servers |
| 21:44.45 | mheath | erm |
| 21:44.50 | mheath | *have a LOT of printers |
| 21:45.11 | mheath | I've used CUPS some, but not heavily or in weird situations... |
| 21:45.16 | mheath | need to do a bit of reading. |
| 21:52.09 | mheath | ~poke \me |
| 21:52.41 | ibot | ACTION cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind \me, pokes \me repeatedly, hilarity ensues. |
| 22:01.39 | mheath | ibot, moonbeam is Marine Corps venacular for a flashlight |
| 22:01.41 | ibot | okay, mheath |
| 22:01.51 | mheath | ibot, waterbowl is Marine Corps venacular for a canteen |
| 22:01.53 | ibot | okay, mheath |
| 22:04.03 | mheath | ibot, IT $who is <reply>So we want to be stupid, right, $who ? Fine, pushups, right now. OK, side straddle hops, right now. OK, run in place, right now. I didn't say stop! |
| 22:04.06 | ibot | mheath: okay |
| 22:04.13 | mheath | ~IT harleypig |
| 22:04.14 | ibot | So we want to be stupid, right, mheath ? Fine, pushups, right now. OK, side straddle hops, right now. OK, run in place, right now. I didn't say stop! |
| 22:04.21 | mheath | agh |
| 22:04.24 | Tene | what does IT stand for? |
| 22:04.38 | mheath | ibot, IT $blah is <reply>So we want to be stupid, right, $blah ? Fine, pushups, right now. OK, side straddle hops, right now. OK, run in place, right now. I didn't say stop! |
| 22:04.40 | ibot | So we want to be stupid, right, mheath ? Fine, pushups, right now. OK, side straddle hops, right now. OK, run in place, right now. I didn't say stop! |
| 22:04.55 | harleypig | http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060913/od_nm/colombia_sex_dc |
| 22:05.04 | harleypig | sfw |
| 22:05.08 | mheath | ibot, no, IT $blah is <reply>So we want to be stupid, right, $blah ? Fine, pushups, right now. OK, side straddle hops, right now. OK, run in place, right now. I didn't say stop! |
| 22:05.10 | ibot | okay, mheath |
| 22:05.15 | mheath | ~IT harleypig |
| 22:05.18 | ibot | So we want to be stupid, right, harleypig ? Fine, pushups, right now. OK, side straddle hops, right now. OK, run in place, right now. I didn't say stop! |
| 22:05.56 | mheath | Tene, individual training :) |
| 22:06.00 | Tene | 'kay |
| 22:07.01 | mheath | Thats how they always talked.... |
| 22:07.14 | mheath | "So we want to _______, right?" |
| 22:07.30 | mheath | Insert one of [be stupid, play games, take our time] |
| 22:07.42 | harleypig | yeah, except it wasn't our names they called us |
| 22:07.50 | harleypig | it was usually maggot |
| 22:08.14 | harleypig | but it could have been any number of derogatory terms |
| 22:09.44 | mheath | My dad tried to tell me they didn't swear anymore at bootcamp =D |
| 22:09.57 | mheath | And that they never got physical / abusive =D |
| 22:10.13 | Tene | Was he filled with lies? |
| 22:10.39 | mheath | Yeah, especially about the swearing, which is openly accepeted at every level. |
| 22:10.51 | harleypig | They never did anything while they were being watched ... |
| 22:10.55 | mheath | Used regularly to refer to pieces of gear or parts of the barracks, actually. |
| 22:11.20 | harleypig | heh, yeah |
| 22:11.38 | mheath | harleypig, yeah, its not 'officially' allowed to get physical anymore, and if an officer sees it or a recruit whines to one, the drill instructor gets in trouble....but, it still happens. |
| 22:11.53 | mheath | harleypig, they ever waterbowl IT back in your day? |
| 22:12.06 | harleypig | with sand in it |
| 22:12.17 | mheath | Heh. |
| 22:12.33 | mheath | No, I mean, make you down a couple waterbowls until you start vomitting |
| 22:12.50 | harleypig | Had to hold a pushup with a di on my back with my face inches from the water |
| 22:12.55 | harleypig | oh, no |
| 22:13.32 | harleypig | I was a diet private, they just ran me until I puked. |
| 22:14.00 | mheath | That was a favorite of some of the drill instructors when I was there...waterbowl IT.. |
| 22:14.51 | mheath | When I was in RSP, one of the DIs got in a lot of trouble for that, mainly because after there was vomit all over the floor, they did a gear inspection and we had to dump our gear mostly ontop of it |
| 22:15.08 | harleypig | heh |
| 22:15.17 | harleypig | some of the di's could be pretty stoopid |
| 22:15.44 | mheath | I had a lot of respect for most of them, though. Still do. |
| 22:16.15 | harleypig | di's are like sister missionaries ... they're either really good or really bad. |
| 22:16.36 | Tene | in what ways are some sister missionaries really bad? |
| 22:16.59 | mheath | platoon 1034, senior drill instructor staff sargeant nemeis, kill, kill, kill'em all, discipline above all else! =P |
| 22:17.00 | harleypig | Some are out to find a husband |
| 22:17.03 | Tene | I know nothing about sister missionaries. |
| 22:17.05 | Tene | ... |
| 22:17.13 | fozzmoo | Some are just butt-ugly. |
| 22:17.15 | harleypig | despite the fact that they are extremely unlikely to get one. |
| 22:17.19 | Tene | *blink* |
| 22:17.38 | Tene | I don't understand that, and I doubt I will, so i won't bother inquiring further. |
| 22:17.52 | harleypig | heh ... the first sister I met on my mission I wanted to smack within the first 5 minutes of hearing her talk. |
| 22:17.58 | fozzmoo | hee hee |
| 22:18.03 | Tene | Why? |
| 22:18.14 | harleypig | Tene: understand what? the butt-ugly part or the unlikely to get a husband? |
| 22:18.20 | harleypig | She whined. |
| 22:18.22 | harleypig | about everything. |
| 22:18.27 | Tene | the "going on a mission to try to get a husband" part. |
| 22:19.06 | mheath | no |
| 22:19.08 | harleypig | Oh ... *shrug* they felt that they would find a husband on their mission because they would meet someone who could see past the surface. |
| 22:19.20 | Tene | I don't understand that. |
| 22:19.21 | mheath | not "going on a mission to try to get a husband", "want to find a husband while on their mission" |
| 22:20.07 | harleypig | Neither do I, but how is that any different from getting a car for going on a mission. |
| 22:20.11 | findlay | what? ibot is on a mission to find a husband? |
| 22:20.14 | findlay | I don't get it |
| 22:20.55 | *** join/#utah beandog (n=sdibb@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 22:21.28 | harleypig | It's the same as members tossing their daughters at the missionaries in the hopes that they'd hook up and get married ... it doesn't make any sense, but they did it. |
| 22:21.38 | Tene | Weird. |
| 22:21.45 | Tene | I didn't know that any of that happened. |
| 22:22.17 | harleypig | You name it, it's happened on someone's mission. |
| 22:22.56 | harleypig | We had an elder disappear one night and show up in Florida (he said he got lost--but he left without his companion), 800 miles away. |
| 22:23.01 | Tene | weird |
| 22:23.18 | harleypig | heh ... now you got me remembering. |
| 22:23.51 | harleypig | My companion and I were plopped into an area at the same time--both elders previous to us were transferred out at the same time. |
| 22:24.22 | harleypig | So, we're going to their investigators and meet this lady who lives by herself. |
| 22:24.24 | harleypig | First problem. |
| 22:25.08 | harleypig | So we're explaining what happened to the other elders and she asks us if we want to continue the arrangement. |
| 22:25.16 | harleypig | Uh ... |
| 22:25.30 | goozbach | heh |
| 22:25.36 | goozbach | ohh boy |
| 22:25.47 | harleypig | They were forgiving her sins (she was a prostitute) in exchange for certain favors. |
| 22:25.55 | goozbach | pfft! |
| 22:26.08 | harleypig | second weirdest thing I was involved in on my mission |
| 22:26.21 | mheath | When an employer, after an interview says "Thanks...we'll be in contact with you soon"....what does that actually mean? :P |
| 22:26.30 | harleypig | mheath: nothing |
| 22:26.49 | harleypig | they haven't made up thier mind yet and are still looking at interviews or |
| 22:27.03 | harleypig | they've already made up they're mind and they're just going through the motions. |
| 22:27.14 | harleypig | either way, there's no way to tell |
| 22:27.54 | goozbach | you don't know for sure until the contact you or not |
| 22:29.34 | mheath | I did feel that that interview went really well.... |
| 22:29.42 | mheath | I'm nervous, I think I'd really enjoy that job |
| 22:31.04 | beandog | its all a question of whether they smiled at the end |
| 22:31.06 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=xbmodder@69-12-240-206.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 22:31.36 | goozbach | harleypig: you did/saw some WHACK things on your mission |
| 22:31.36 | Supaplex | and if it was a real smile |
| 22:31.57 | mheath | Supaplex, they don't fake smile at the end of a phone interview =P |
| 22:32.03 | goozbach | Supaplex: very important to note those things during a PHONE interview |
| 22:32.03 | Sargun | hehe |
| 22:32.06 | Supaplex | yea, harleypig's mission makes mine look like temple square :P |
| 22:32.10 | bonez39 | any MS Exchange/IMAP gurus here? I am trying to access email from account on Exchange using IMAP/ |
| 22:34.40 | mheath | hahaha |
| 22:35.04 | mheath | this is the most awesome job listing I've ever seen....its apparently the job they're considering me for |
| 22:35.05 | mheath | http://www.backcountrycorp.com/corporate/section/2/jobs.html?jobs_id=104&job_cat=tech |
| 22:35.13 | *** join/#utah Caitai (n=chatzill@cpe-065-184-033-164.ec.res.rr.com) |
| 22:35.45 | *** part/#utah Caitai (n=chatzill@cpe-065-184-033-164.ec.res.rr.com) |
| 22:36.27 | harleypig | goozbach: I certainly did... it was a lot of fun though, and the most growing up I did. |
| 22:37.24 | harleypig | Supaplex: I think everything would be able to recount some interesting events on their mission |
| 22:37.34 | harleypig | s/everything/everyone/ |
| 22:37.52 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@hfugal.NMSU.Edu) |
| 22:41.48 | [phoenyx] | harleypig: where did you go? |
| 22:42.49 | harleypig | Pittsburgh PA |
| 22:43.00 | harleypig | 89-91 |
| 22:52.03 | Sargun | Nanchaku? |
| 22:53.05 | Sargun | 1) What is the purpose of the registry in MS Windows? To take up a crap load of space, and be a great place to host viruses. Also it helps the system become unstable, and enhances the economy by creating jobs (think geek squad) |
| 22:53.53 | Sargun | 2) From the desktop support perspective, why is Firefox so much better than Internet Explorer? it supports extensions, is totally better with CSS. |
| 22:54.52 | Sargun | number 3 can't be less boring |
| 22:55.47 | *** join/#utah macnewbold (n=mac@69.2.248.251) |
| 22:55.47 | Sargun | 4) you idiot! Why are you using such a crappy IP address. your company has no use for 255**3 IPs! its freaking useless! (and of course missing the argument to -t) |
| 22:55.58 | Sargun | 5) too boring |
| 22:56.04 | Sargun | 6) What is your desired wage? Alot. |
| 22:56.34 | Sargun | 7) Why do you want to work for Backcountry.com? I don't I just wanted to make fun of this application |
| 23:03.43 | WoodsDog | "oh good lord..." |
| 23:03.44 | rsimpkins | I'm so excited, I just can't hide it. I'm about to loose control and I think I like it. |
| 23:03.57 | rsimpkins | WoodsDog: Hey man. |
| 23:04.02 | WoodsDog | sup ryan |
| 23:04.08 | rsimpkins | WoodsDog: Enjoying the break? |
| 23:04.20 | WoodsDog | break? :) |
| 23:04.44 | rsimpkins | I never caught if you were moving at all, or staying put. |
| 23:04.58 | WoodsDog | staying put, i had a break over the weekend. |
| 23:05.01 | Sargun | rsimpkins, I met flygirl |
| 23:05.20 | rsimpkins | Sargun: Yeah, but I'm the only what that is fly, for a white guy. |
| 23:05.50 | Sargun | lol |
| 23:06.09 | rsimpkins | I never heard officially if there was NUPM tonight. |
| 23:06.14 | rsimpkins | Anyone knwo? |
| 23:06.34 | rsimpkins | Rather - is anyone planning on going? |
| 23:06.42 | rsimpkins | I don't want to be the only one there. :) |
| 23:08.11 | rsimpkins | Wow, it's just a big echo chamber in here tonight. |
| 23:08.23 | findlay | ~echo |
| 23:08.24 | ibot | methinks echo is an issue which can be best fixed using this link: http://www.asteriskdocs.org/modules/tinycontent/content/docbook/current/docs-html/x1695.html#AEN1718, or fixed with fxotune: http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/Asterisk+fxotune, or best fixed by troubleshooting your pci bus: http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/Asterisk+PCI+bus+Troubleshooting, or of ... |
| 23:08.36 | findlay | ibot: you know too much |
| 23:08.48 | rsimpkins | ibot is a smarty pants. |
| 23:09.10 | Sargun | lol |
| 23:10.18 | rsimpkins | I'm excited to launch the new plug tonight. |
| 23:10.22 | rsimpkins | I am all set and ready to go. |
| 23:17.47 | Sargun | Are there _any_ Web 2.0 Social networking sites? |
| 23:18.31 | Sargun | ~myspace |
| 23:18.36 | ibot | i guess myspace is the root of all evil |
| 23:20.40 | mheath | Web 2.0 is the root of all evil. |
| 23:21.45 | goozbach | Sargun: just because it's a 10.<whatever> address doesn't mean it's a class A network |
| 23:24.07 | Sargun | It was a joke |
| 23:24.12 | Sargun | mheath, good luck |
| 23:24.28 | emcnabb | http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_1993694.html |
| 23:24.35 | Sargun | if you need a job, there is always the bay area. |
| 23:24.43 | bonez39 | Supaplex, still around? thanks for waking me up! |
| 23:24.55 | emcnabb | mheath: I thought you were in the military |
| 23:25.26 | Sargun | nice |
| 23:25.31 | Sargun | uhh... |
| 23:25.33 | Sargun | ~mheath |
| 23:25.35 | ibot | somebody said mheath was a cool guy who hasn't set any world records :) |
| 23:25.42 | Sargun | isn't that xbmodder |
| 23:25.46 | Sargun | ~xbmodder |
| 23:25.47 | ibot | i guess xbmodder is a moose. already something else... |
| 23:25.55 | Sargun | ~sargun |
| 23:27.25 | goozbach | mheath is also no longer in the military cause of his bum knees |
| 23:27.33 | goozbach | ~mheath |
| 23:27.34 | ibot | somebody said mheath was a cool guy who hasn't set any world records :) |
| 23:27.45 | goozbach | ~mheath is also no longer in the military cause of his bum knees |
| 23:27.46 | ibot | ACTION impresses is also no longer in the military cause of his bum knees into the US military. Serve your country, dang it! |
| 23:27.50 | mheath | emcnabb knew that, I think. He was joking (badly). Or maybe it was another mcnabb that kneww. |
| 23:28.14 | goozbach | wow, mheath is also a verb |
| 23:28.24 | goozbach | oho |
| 23:28.25 | emcnabb | mheath: I was just trying to work you up |
| 23:29.05 | *** part/#utah [phoenyx] (n=tthorley@64.147.152.13) |
| 23:30.05 | Jayce^ | emcnabb, that eye guy is from my mission |
| 23:30.15 | emcnabb | ~lart Jayce^ |
| 23:34.46 | emcnabb | mheath: I haven't been keeping up on your job hunt, but a position you may be interested in just was emailed out to the SLLUG job announce list (Jr Linux Admin /VOIP Support Technician) |
| 23:35.09 | findlay | ~job mheath |
| 23:36.01 | Sargun | emcnabb, Freeswitch, Asterisk, or some propietary stuff? |
| 23:36.23 | mheath | emcnabb, I just had an excellent interview with backcountry.com that went well; waiting to hear back from them |
| 23:36.27 | Sargun | if you use barter as a form of payment, is it taxable. |
| 23:36.29 | mheath | I'll check that out too though |
| 23:36.40 | Jayce^ | Sargun, just got mailed to the lists |
| 23:36.49 | Jayce^ | says some asterisk knowledge is helpful |
| 23:37.08 | Jayce^ | rsimpkins, yes to a nupm meeting |
| 23:37.10 | Sargun | cool |
| 23:37.18 | Sargun | telecommuting? |
| 23:37.19 | rsimpkins | K, I will go eat dinner then. |
| 23:37.25 | rsimpkins | see ya there. |
| 23:38.27 | mheath | emcnabb, ah. I'm not experienced at all with VOIP... |
| 23:39.00 | emcnabb | Asterisk |
| 23:41.43 | mheath | Let me ask you this..... |
| 23:42.12 | Sargun | Asterisk is uber-easy |
| 23:42.17 | Sargun | even I can use it |
| 23:42.24 | Sargun | thats saying alot |
| 23:42.51 | mheath | I submitted my resume to backcountry.com, and was called up just a couple of hours later by their CTO. He talked with me for a couple of minutes, then pulled together an interview with several high level techs at their company in 10 minutes. They asked me a lot of general, seemingly simple questions about my experience, and then said they'd be in contact with me soon.. |
| 23:43.10 | mheath | Do you think I actually have a decent chance of getting this job? |
| 23:43.41 | emcnabb | mheath: it sounds good but I've had that exact thing happen to me before and I've not gotten a job |
| 23:43.56 | emcnabb | it never hurts to apply at additional places |
| 23:45.33 | *** part/#utah herlo (n=herlo@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 23:45.58 | mheath | I think I will apply for that junior admin place.. |
| 23:46.05 | *** join/#utah ScytheBlade1 (n=ScytheBl@about/pxe/ScytheBlade1) |
| 23:46.06 | mheath | emcnabb, what did you think of my resume when you saw it? decent? |
| 23:46.16 | ScytheBlade1 | Looking for an x.org wizard :/ |
| 23:46.30 | ScytheBlade1 | I just got a new monitor.. and it's native resolution is 1680x1050 |
| 23:46.37 | ScytheBlade1 | And for the life of me, I cannot get it to run that |
| 23:46.38 | emcnabb | mheath: I didn't see it |
| 23:47.17 | emcnabb | URL? |
| 23:47.25 | mheath | nevermind, it was rsimpkins that asked for it. |
| 23:47.29 | emcnabb | oh, ok |