| 00:02.55 | dilvie | Hi Scott |
| 00:03.15 | dilvie | Supaplex: Beep! =) |
| 00:03.24 | Supaplex | yo |
| 00:03.48 | dilvie | what's up? |
| 00:04.23 | Supaplex | hacking away at some freeside code. thinking of $food that I should make. You? |
| 00:04.59 | dilvie | going to the in-law's house for dinner. |
| 00:05.06 | dilvie | We'll have to chat later. =) |
| 00:05.10 | Supaplex | k |
| 00:05.25 | dilvie | Supa: when do you want to swing by and pick up hard disks? |
| 00:05.27 | Supaplex | have fun :) |
| 00:05.39 | dilvie | maybe after work later in the week? |
| 00:05.40 | Supaplex | sometime by the end of the week. |
| 00:05.56 | dilvie | cool, we'll arrange a time, and I'll prepare the drives for you. =) |
| 00:06.13 | Supaplex | it's too bad you don't wake up early, or I could grab them on my way to work. |
| 00:06.25 | dilvie | If you want, I can stuff one full of MP3s... =) |
| 00:06.27 | dilvie | hehehe |
| 00:06.40 | dilvie | I've got several CD's full of house music you might enjoy. |
| 00:06.56 | dilvie | anyway, I gotta run. TTYL. =) |
| 00:07.00 | Supaplex | humm.. k |
| 00:07.44 | Sargun | What happened to findlay |
| 00:08.01 | dilvie | BTW, if you have time to proof-read my article on my system build, I'd be grateful. |
| 00:08.04 | dilvie | http://www.writely.com/View.aspx?docid=ajhrx96tmj5n_9gsh24g |
| 00:11.07 | Sargun | I do attend a network party with friends from time to time |
| 00:11.12 | Sargun | LAN party? |
| 00:11.50 | Sargun | Because capacity and performance are the most important to me, I decided to build a RAID array. |
| 00:12.35 | Sargun | better said: Since capacity and performance are most important to me, I decided a RAID array would be ideal. |
| 00:13.45 | Sargun | dilvie, you should try to unplug a drive while its on |
| 00:13.49 | Sargun | see if it works. |
| 00:13.50 | Sargun | :-P |
| 00:14.58 | *** join/#utah spr (n=spr@c-24-10-162-63.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 01:01.56 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 01:22.37 | elg | line-interactive UPS, or regular battery backup UPS with cool LCD display, etc.? |
| 01:36.25 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 01:40.13 | levi_home | What's a line-interactive UPS? |
| 01:47.45 | elg | there's basically three kinds. |
| 01:48.00 | elg | standby, where the power switches to battery when the a/c stops |
| 01:48.20 | elg | line-interactive which is basically the same but has a transformer to make the switch smoother |
| 01:48.22 | *** join/#utah tristanbob (n=tristanb@c-67-164-202-102.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 01:48.35 | elg | and online, where you actually run off the continually-charging battery the whole time, so there's no switch |
| 01:49.03 | elg | the switch incurs a delay, which is ok if your PSU can handle the delay. online has no delay, so it's best (and most expensive, by a long shot) |
| 01:49.07 | elg | line-interactive has a smaller delay |
| 01:49.57 | elg | I don't have to make the choice after all, though. the one with the pretty LCD is also line-interactive |
| 01:50.02 | elg | it just didn't say that on neweg |
| 02:00.01 | findlay | Sargun: I have one eth with a public address and another with an internal address and I basically want almost everything to use the internal nic |
| 02:01.06 | findlay | and get routed through the ISP's regular channels |
| 02:01.33 | Sargun | findlay, ip route add EXCEPTION/CIDR dev eth(EXT) |
| 02:02.08 | findlay | ~cidr |
| 02:02.09 | ibot | well, cidr is Classless Inter-Domain Routing, see RFC1517/1518/1519/1520. |
| 02:02.25 | findlay | Sargun: gentoo config? |
| 02:02.57 | Sargun | eh? |
| 02:03.03 | Sargun | add it to your routes |
| 02:03.14 | Sargun | just get rid of the "ip route add" part. |
| 02:03.38 | Sargun | findlay, what is the exception? |
| 02:04.06 | findlay | eth0 is external eth1 is internal, so I would say the equivalent of route add exception dev eth0? |
| 02:04.19 | findlay | I don't even know how to form an exception |
| 02:04.23 | Sargun | findlay, what is the exception? |
| 02:04.25 | findlay | or what one is |
| 02:04.27 | Sargun | like google.com? |
| 02:04.35 | Sargun | what do you want to go over eth0? |
| 02:04.48 | findlay | only traffic that is initiatied externally |
| 02:05.46 | findlay | so, everything goes over eth1 by default unless traffic was initiated by a remote host |
| 02:05.46 | findlay | because eth0 has a public IP it can intercept public traffic |
| 02:05.46 | Sargun | make your default route over eth1 -- and make eth0 just sit there. |
| 02:05.46 | Sargun | fun |
| 02:05.51 | Sargun | that sort of thing is. |
| 02:05.58 | findlay | Sargun: you don't like? |
| 02:06.10 | findlay | s/like?/like it?/g |
| 02:06.13 | Sargun | findlay, no at all.. but I am trying to remember how to do it |
| 02:06.21 | Sargun | your using iproute2, right? |
| 02:06.26 | findlay | no |
| 02:06.32 | findlay | just plain iptables |
| 02:06.47 | Sargun | then your screwed. |
| 02:06.57 | Sargun | well -- not screwed |
| 02:07.13 | findlay | so I can't do it with /etc/conf.d/net? |
| 02:08.38 | Sargun | findlay, first, what does this say: 'ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="~x86" emerge -pv iproute2' |
| 02:08.46 | Sargun | findlay, can you post your /etc/conf.d/net |
| 02:09.00 | Sargun | pbin |
| 02:09.46 | findlay | [ebuild N ] sys-apps/iproute2-2.6.16.20060323 USE="-atm -berkdb -minimal" 377 kB |
| 02:10.08 | findlay | looks pretty straightforward to me |
| 02:10.59 | Sargun | what version of baselayout are you using? |
| 02:11.06 | Sargun | can you post your /etc/conf.d/net < |
| 02:11.17 | findlay | 1.12.4-r7 |
| 02:11.32 | Sargun | mhmm |
| 02:11.48 | Sargun | go emerge iproute2 |
| 02:11.55 | Sargun | and let me see your net config file |
| 02:12.00 | findlay | http://pastebin.ca/161163 |
| 02:13.01 | Sargun | oh wow -- clean |
| 02:13.03 | Sargun | too clean |
| 02:13.36 | Sargun | you need to learn to dirty your route tables. |
| 02:14.25 | Sargun | echo 200 Public >> /etc/iproute2/rt_tables |
| 02:14.36 | findlay | so is iproute pretty easy to figure out? |
| 02:15.37 | Sargun | ip rule add dev eth0 table Public |
| 02:16.03 | Sargun | ip route add default via $GW dev eth0 table Public |
| 02:16.24 | Sargun | ip route show #Check this -- and make sure its clean |
| 02:16.31 | Sargun | ip route flush cache |
| 02:16.41 | findlay | hm, I'll have to look at it later. Now I have to do homework |
| 02:16.52 | Sargun | those are the exact commands |
| 02:17.11 | findlay | and I have to listen to some Rachmaninov |
| 02:17.33 | Sargun | findlay, iproute2 is self-explanatory |
| 02:17.43 | Sargun | etc-update your init/conf.d first though |
| 02:17.49 | Sargun | I forgot that part :-P |
| 02:23.39 | Supaplex | breaking news (if you haven't heard yet) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_irwin#Death |
| 02:24.41 | Sargun | heh |
| 02:24.58 | Sargun | Supaplex, its been all over |
| 02:25.47 | Sargun | Supaplex, sting rays can puncture bone that deep? |
| 02:25.49 | Sargun | r |
| 02:25.49 | Sargun | er |
| 02:25.50 | Sargun | skin |
| 02:27.49 | Supaplex | apparently so |
| 02:32.06 | *** join/#utah microw (n=mike@61.144.226.78) |
| 02:32.30 | *** part/#utah microw (n=mike@61.144.226.78) |
| 03:18.43 | scott | anyone recommend any great sources for free indie or world music? |
| 03:19.03 | *** join/#utah findlay_ (n=justin@67.137.24.115) |
| 03:19.15 | findlay_ | stupid computer |
| 03:19.26 | findlay_ | all I did was look at it and it rebooted |
| 03:19.28 | Sargun | findlay, you tried my routing advice? |
| 03:19.31 | Sargun | lol |
| 03:19.36 | findlay_ | not yet |
| 03:19.49 | findlay_ | hard to do with a randomly rebooting computer |
| 03:21.32 | Sargun | hm |
| 03:21.35 | Sargun | what computeR? |
| 03:21.37 | *** join/#utah herlo (n=herlo@71-219-25-112.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 03:22.01 | Sargun | findlay_, Routing is evil. Something a network admin doesn't want to deal with |
| 03:23.45 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 03:32.29 | *** join/#utah herl1 (n=herlo@71-219-25-112.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 03:58.02 | Sargun | findlay_, planning on attacking iproute2? |
| 04:07.59 | goozbach | dang! I haven't procrastinated this much since college |
| 04:08.15 | goozbach | I've got a big presentation tomorrow for the local LUG |
| 04:08.29 | goozbach | the kicker is that it's about giving good presentations. |
| 04:08.39 | goozbach | so I actually have to put some work into it |
| 04:08.54 | goozbach | so far I've just collected data |
| 04:11.55 | herlo | ~lart goozbach for procrastinating |
| 04:36.32 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=xbmodder@69-12-240-206.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 04:49.10 | QBFreak | anyone here anygood with gimp? |
| 04:49.23 | synic | define "good" |
| 04:49.33 | QBFreak | capable of inserting and repositioning text |
| 04:49.50 | QBFreak | I get text inserted, but I can't seem to move it |
| 04:49.55 | QBFreak | its not quite where I wanted it |
| 04:50.05 | synic | use the four arrow cursor |
| 04:50.36 | QBFreak | right, but I get a cursor with that and a circle with a line through it, it wont let me move anything |
| 04:50.57 | QBFreak | the text is its own layer, I'm not trying to cut out a portion of an existing image |
| 04:51.30 | synic | hrm, that's how I do it.. |
| 04:51.38 | QBFreak | thats how I've done it before, I don't get it |
| 04:59.55 | dilvie | I had a UPS, but it couldn't handle my power demands. |
| 05:01.16 | maquis | QBFreak: it's on a separate layer |
| 05:01.41 | maquis | you need to go to the layers window, select the layer, and tell it not to be a tiny layer (ie, to fill the whole window...) |
| 05:01.49 | maquis | then you can move text around |
| 05:02.03 | maquis | (that's the answer if you're having the problem i've had before) |
| 05:02.31 | maquis | when's the election for pete ashdown? |
| 05:22.59 | findlay_ | maquis: we don't have elections anymore |
| 05:23.03 | findlay_ | they're all over |
| 05:38.08 | Sargun | findlay, did the iproute2 hack work? |
| 05:56.09 | QBFreak | maquis: nope :( |
| 05:56.48 | QBFreak | I right clicked and chose Layer to Image Size and now if I look at the boundry sizes it matches the image size, and the thumbnail looks better, but I still can't move it |
| 06:05.21 | maquis | QBFreak: weird |
| 08:53.36 | Sargun | Can all HTML objects have "title"? |
| 12:02.28 | Tene | I believe so. |
| 13:14.47 | *** join/#utah graphyx (n=graphyx@205.208.245.105) |
| 13:33.52 | nick125_lappy | Sargun: three words: W3C HTML Specs |
| 13:36.34 | *** join/#utah redbeard1 (n=redbeard@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 13:43.55 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch@71-219-21-234.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 13:44.29 | *** part/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch@71-219-21-234.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 14:01.11 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@64.72.210.10) |
| 14:01.59 | levi | Good morning, #utahns! |
| 14:02.40 | levi | redbeard1: I will be coming to eat your penguin cake on the 13th. :) |
| 14:04.34 | redbeard1 | levi: stellar. it'll be good to see you there. |
| 14:04.56 | levi | The 13th happens to be my birthday, too. |
| 14:05.45 | redbeard1 | not your 10th birthday as well, i hope |
| 14:05.59 | levi | No, I've got a couple of decades on PLUG. |
| 14:06.30 | Jayce^ | mmm, demon penguins |
| 14:06.43 | levi | Jayce^: How many presidents has PLUG had, anyway? |
| 14:06.49 | Jayce^ | 2 |
| 14:06.59 | levi | Who was the first? |
| 14:07.00 | Jayce^ | Thayne, and me |
| 14:07.11 | levi | Ahh, okay. How long was Thayne prez? |
| 14:07.16 | Jayce^ | Mike was the webmaster/everything else, thayne was pres when they set it up |
| 14:07.21 | Jayce^ | 4 years or so.. |
| 14:07.22 | redbeard1 | i thought mike was president. |
| 14:07.26 | redbeard1 | you think you know a guy |
| 14:07.38 | Jayce^ | one or the other, mike and thayne ran it |
| 14:07.41 | redbeard1 | not that i actually know mike, come to think of it |
| 14:07.59 | Jayce^ | yeah, you only thought that |
| 14:08.24 | levi | Is Thayne still at Realm? From what I've heard, the company is having a difficult time. |
| 14:08.34 | Jayce^ | yeah he is |
| 14:08.45 | Jayce^ | when he presented last, he talked about that |
| 14:09.01 | Jayce^ | apparently they made the necessary cuts, and stopped bleeding funding.. |
| 14:13.45 | levi | Ahh, cool. I have a hard time seeing that kind of gadget being very successful, but they're certainly cool-sounding. |
| 14:19.34 | Jayce^ | well, it had some pretty nifty usage in security.. |
| 14:19.44 | Jayce^ | I could see their 'vpn for business' usefulness |
| 14:19.58 | Jayce^ | just plug it in and any marketing idiot is on the vpn, no config |
| 14:22.50 | *** join/#utah spr (n=spr@c-24-10-162-63.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 14:25.57 | [Utah]tristanbob | http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=06/09/01/149211 |
| 14:26.13 | [Utah]tristanbob | "Maintainer's resignation highlights problems in Debian project" |
| 14:27.14 | [Utah]tristanbob | the question is, can Ubuntu be successfull without Debian being successfull? |
| 14:34.35 | wps | does anyone know how to invite ChanServ into a new channel? |
| 14:34.42 | wps | I cannot remember how to do it |
| 14:36.09 | Sargun | wps, is the channel registered? |
| 14:36.09 | wps | yes |
| 14:37.15 | Sargun | it might be a mode? |
| 14:37.38 | wps | I've dug through all of it chanserv's help and can't see it anywhere |
| 14:37.40 | wps | hmm |
| 14:39.49 | Sargun | did you set the description? |
| 14:41.28 | wps | no |
| 14:42.28 | Sargun | wps, hint: set some variable |
| 14:42.46 | wps | set some variable? |
| 14:45.45 | wps | what do you mean, Sargun |
| 14:51.27 | *** join/#utah [phoenyx] (n=tthorley@64.147.152.13) |
| 14:53.55 | synic | wps: /msg chanserv set guard #channel on |
| 14:54.18 | wps | ah-hah! |
| 14:54.19 | wps | sheesh |
| 14:54.22 | wps | how did I miss that? |
| 14:54.23 | wps | thanks, synic |
| 14:54.30 | synic | np |
| 15:15.46 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@208.64.90.18.utahbroadband.com) |
| 15:19.51 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 15:23.12 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 15:26.40 | redbeard1 | here's a great way to start this morning: http://porktornado.diaryland.com/albumcover.html |
| 15:26.53 | redbeard1 | and just in case that isn't enough: http://porktornado.diaryland.com/covers2.html |
| 15:42.55 | *** join/#utah synic (n=squish@pdpc/supporter/student/synic) |
| 15:45.04 | *** join/#utah synic (n=squish@pdpc/supporter/student/synic) |
| 15:45.14 | *** join/#utah jnbek (n=jnbek@c-24-10-178-17.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 15:45.39 | rsimpkins | Can you really claim to be a geek if you have never used IRC? |
| 15:50.43 | Jayce^ | no |
| 15:51.30 | graphyx | I think you can't claim to be a computer geek without irc.. |
| 15:51.35 | graphyx | But a geek ingeneral. sure. |
| 15:52.15 | graphyx | A person who has built an apartment as a replica of the st:tng enterprise would qualify as a geek. |
| 15:52.22 | graphyx | A star trek geek. |
| 16:07.26 | rsimpkins | I was refering to computer geeks, or "fake" computer geeks. CGeeks in training? CGeek wannabes? Something. I seem to be running in to more of them these days. People wanting to be a "computer guy," but would be better used car salesmen. They tend to work for places like CompUSA and Best Buy, but not always. Anyone have similar experiences? |
| 16:08.21 | redbeard1 | i ran into a dude like that in new hampshire. |
| 16:09.15 | redbeard1 | when i was buying my notebook at bestbuy, the salesguy ended up being a jerk who liked to challenge everything i said, and then try to sell me on all the extras. |
| 16:09.44 | redbeard1 | eventually he realized that i was running circles around him, and the conversation turned to how i was going to use my notebook for work. |
| 16:10.15 | rsimpkins | They may read slasdot. They may have the thinkgeek t-shirt. They may even have managed to install Fedora C 5 on their home system. However, if you ask them if they use IRC - you loose them. |
| 16:10.33 | redbeard1 | at the time i was telecommuiting for an isp that was getting ready to launch in a couple of months (and which has recently gone under, from what i hear) |
| 16:10.45 | redbeard1 | he said "oh yeah, i know about them... they're not by any chance hiring, are they?" |
| 16:12.37 | redbeard1 | yeah, i doubt this guy knew what irc was. he was barely holding his own on the linux conversation, and the things i told him about windows just blew his mind |
| 16:13.58 | rsimpkins | I think some of these guys just aren't willing to take the time to learn. They want the easy solution. Tell me if I am wrong, but I have spent countless hours reading dozens of books and other materials trying to learn things. I've even been botherd to read a few RFCs in whole. Being a "geek" is a hard road. |
| 16:18.31 | levi | Only a few RFCs? ;) |
| 16:20.22 | levi | At least RFCs are free to read. |
| 16:20.24 | redbeard1 | i remember back in the day, when i would carpool with a dude that would take forever to show up when i came to pick him up. i had several RFCs loaded onto my palm pilot to read, to pass the time |
| 16:20.52 | levi | Instead of RFCs, I read research papers these days. |
| 16:21.18 | levi | I was really excited when I found out I have access to the entire ACM Digital Library through UVSC. |
| 16:22.07 | *** join/#utah herlo (n=herlo@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 16:27.49 | levi | http://www.comics.com/comics/workingdaze/archive/workingdaze-20060901.html |
| 16:29.28 | *** join/#utah atoponce (i=aaron@tor/regular/atoponce) |
| 16:30.06 | *** join/#utah encryptz (i=aaron@gateway/tor/x-45f78bea04cbba6a) |
| 16:41.35 | xbmodder_ | sup |
| 16:51.43 | spr | ~lart herlo for scheduling utos for the same time as UUG |
| 16:52.05 | herlo | spr: I had no idea... |
| 16:52.24 | spr | herlo, I figured, but just had to use the lart since the opportunity came up |
| 16:52.30 | herlo | spr: there was no announcement I could find. |
| 16:52.35 | herlo | that I recall |
| 16:52.40 | herlo | btw, what time is your meeting? |
| 16:52.46 | spr | 7:30pm |
| 16:53.00 | spr | The announcement probably didn't show untill saturday or sunday. |
| 16:53.34 | spr | I keep meaning to make it to the IRC meetings, but stuff always comes up |
| 16:56.45 | herlo | hmm, yeah, that's kinda what I figured. Well, I plan on having another In-Person UTOS meeting up north in a few weeks too... |
| 16:57.16 | herlo | spr: though I know you live in Utah Valley |
| 16:58.12 | tensai | redbeard1: ping |
| 16:58.20 | redbeard1 | tensai: pong |
| 16:58.42 | tensai | redbeard1: 10 small peaches for the peach salsa. would 6 large peaches be about right? |
| 16:59.06 | redbeard1 | probably |
| 16:59.22 | redbeard1 | yeah, that sounds about right |
| 17:06.28 | *** join/#utah encryptz (i=aaron@tor/regular/atoponce) |
| 17:09.41 | spr | herlo, depending on how far up north, I'll see what I can do |
| 17:09.45 | xbmodder_ | hi |
| 17:10.31 | herlo | spr: cool, I figured we'd need a couple meetings to accommodate everyone, plus I am working on attending several of the UG meetings in the near future to promote the conference... |
| 17:10.56 | spr | herlo, cool. We're the first and third thursdays |
| 17:11.05 | *** join/#utah atoponce (i=aaron@tor/regular/atoponce) |
| 17:11.23 | herlo | yeah, I'll do my best to make the one at the end of sept |
| 17:11.29 | spr | cool |
| 17:17.36 | Jayce^ | spr, I have the same problem with getting to utos stuff.. always busy |
| 17:21.50 | levi | I hate hate hate <action> if <condition> constructs. |
| 17:24.15 | herlo | Jayce^: not an excuse, you guys just need to make time.... |
| 17:26.37 | graphyx | levi what about perl's unless condition? |
| 17:26.57 | graphyx | which is basically an <Action> if! <condition> |
| 17:27.07 | levi | I hate that too. |
| 17:29.52 | levi | I wonder if there exists something like SNMP::Info in a language that I already know or would like to learn. Otherwise I'll have to write some perl code. :/ |
| 17:30.02 | Jayce^ | I like 'unless', in single cases... I never use it with an 'else' block |
| 17:30.40 | Jayce^ | levi, it'll be good for you :) however I can't see it not existing in python or others also.. |
| 17:30.49 | levi | I use unless in Lisp all the time, but it looks like: (unless condition action) |
| 17:31.12 | graphyx | Jayce^: an unless with an else? wow.. didn't think of that one. |
| 17:31.15 | graphyx | Seems silly though. |
| 17:31.20 | Jayce^ | unless (condition) { action } |
| 17:31.31 | graphyx | why not just do it forwards.. |
| 17:31.41 | graphyx | if (condition) { action } else { { |
| 17:31.44 | Jayce^ | graphyx, it's common... people will write an unless, then later realize there is an else case, and just add it on |
| 17:31.50 | graphyx | s/ { { / { }/ |
| 17:31.57 | Jayce^ | graphyx, that is the best practice |
| 17:31.58 | graphyx | That makes sense. |
| 17:32.02 | graphyx | Ok. |
| 17:32.06 | graphyx | Thought it was just me. |
| 17:32.33 | Jayce^ | nah, unless can be handy, and make very readable code *in certain cases*.. |
| 17:33.04 | [phoenyx] | 'forwards' relative to what? in regular english "do action unless condition" occurs all of the time |
| 17:33.34 | graphyx | [phoenyx]: but do you have do action unless condition else action? |
| 17:33.58 | graphyx | Usually those are written if condition do 2nd action, else 1st action. |
| 17:35.45 | *** join/#utah jsmith (n=jsmith@209.96.157.28) |
| 17:36.06 | levi | I like to always see conditions before the actions they determine. You need to know them in that order when determining whether the action is going to be taken. |
| 17:36.37 | levi | Whether or not people speak like that is largely irrelevant to me. |
| 17:39.26 | graphyx | I think I can agree with it. |
| 17:39.44 | graphyx | But I do like the unless due to its use for something that almost always should happen. |
| 17:41.16 | levi | It would annoy me less in that case. |
| 17:41.43 | levi | Though if you tack the unless on the end of a long line, it may not be obvious that there is actually a condition attached. |
| 17:41.54 | graphyx | That is true.. |
| 17:42.07 | graphyx | In which case I would suggest dropping it down to the next line and indenting it. |
| 17:42.14 | graphyx | All in the coding style. |
| 17:43.44 | elg | levi: I like <action> if/unless <condition> |
| 17:43.45 | elg | a lot |
| 17:43.58 | levi | elg: Why? |
| 17:43.59 | elg | I don't always use it, I only use it when it's lyrical. but it's great |
| 17:44.05 | elg | why not? |
| 17:44.15 | elg | it often reads much better |
| 17:44.15 | levi | Because of what I just said. |
| 17:45.42 | elg | i don't buy it. I mean, I do buy that you don't like them, and for that reason. I just don't buy it as a valid reason for me to dislike them. |
| 17:47.34 | levi | That's fine, and you can go on liking them, but I will hate the code you write that uses those forms. But that's okay, too. :) |
| 17:47.59 | levi | Or at least I will hate those lines of the code. |
| 17:51.43 | *** join/#utah spr_ (n=spr@otherlab.cs.byu.edu) |
| 17:52.47 | *** join/#utah amcnabb (n=amcnabb@c-24-10-162-63.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 17:57.21 | graphyx | What if he spaces out his code such that it is a work of art as in the spacing depicts art? |
| 17:57.22 | graphyx | And you like the art it is depicting. |
| 17:57.22 | graphyx | And it only works with an unless. ;) |
| 17:58.38 | levi | Then I would like it as art, but I would be supremely annoyed if I had to actually read the program it contained. |
| 17:59.00 | graphyx | lol. |
| 17:59.01 | graphyx | fair enough. |
| 18:05.16 | tensai | ~lart elg |
| 18:17.26 | *** join/#utah zekeonfire (n=zekeonfi@208.186.65.172) |
| 18:23.52 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 18:23.53 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 18:24.28 | graphyx | I took a fish head out to see a movie. Didn't have to pay to get it in. |
| 18:26.46 | spr_ | fish heads, fish heads, rolly, polly fish heads |
| 18:28.02 | [phoenyx] | fish heads, fish heads, eat them up, YUM! |
| 18:32.53 | atoponce | wow. a band in an irc channel... cool! |
| 19:14.24 | levi | Hrm, this module isn't doing as much as I thought it was. |
| 19:15.33 | *** join/#utah Robdor (n=rob@208.187.198.179) |
| 20:08.21 | *** join/#utah GvzEvxre (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 20:08.23 | *** mode/#utah [+o GvzEvxre] by ChanServ |
| 20:16.35 | Tene | levi: which module? |
| 20:16.57 | levi | SNMP::Info, or something like that. |
| 20:30.46 | \me | Is Charles Curley ever in here? |
| 20:32.16 | \me | some times I want to ring its neck because Perl could do it faster, but others (ie the built-in functions) it's not bad |
| 20:32.45 | \me | I think a combination of Perl and PHP could be beneficial, but then again, why not just use Mason if you're doing that? |
| 20:36.09 | neybar | wait... doesn't a combination of perl and php just give you php? |
| 20:37.34 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@128.123.63.109) |
| 20:37.40 | \me | I was meaning perl for backend scripts and php for the web |
| 20:38.13 | \me | it's easy to get lazy and use php, but perl's mason is so much more robust |
| 20:38.27 | \me | and I miss the autohandler and dhandler from mason |
| 20:39.10 | \me | but some of php's builtin functions *are* cool |
| 20:43.21 | Tene | Template Toolkit! |
| 20:43.25 | Tene | Such as, \me? |
| 20:44.48 | \me | Tene: the url parsing functions, for instance (that convert spaces to '-' and %20, etc) |
| 20:45.28 | \me | nothing a CPAN module couldn't do, but still cool, because it's built in to the language |
| 20:45.32 | Tene | what situations is that good for, \me? |
| 20:46.27 | \me | Tene: any time you need to place a variable into a uri string |
| 20:46.36 | \me | it has some cool xml parsing functions too |
| 20:46.41 | goozbach | LUGOT meeting in 45 minutes if you're in the Tallahassee area |
| 20:46.44 | goozbach | :) |
| 20:46.57 | \me | so it will auto replace all ' with "e; etc. |
| 20:47.17 | \me | php was just built for the web, and that's the cool part about it |
| 20:47.24 | \me | but then again, so was Mason |
| 20:47.44 | \me | I'm not putting it above Perl, I'm just saying there's some cool parts of php |
| 20:49.06 | \me | I hate that it uses echo |
| 20:50.15 | \me | that url above states my frustrations with it very well |
| 20:50.15 | levi | Grr, this net-snmp perl module RPM is BROKEN. |
| 20:50.51 | \me | that's okay - I'll slowly convert them over to Perl |
| 20:50.54 | \me | or maybe Ruby |
| 20:51.13 | Jayce^ | broken rpms are bad, borked rpm's for perl(or similar scripting language files) is really sad |
| 20:52.09 | \me | they're using perl for all their backend-scripts at least |
| 20:52.13 | levi | It tries to load a .so, which has a dependancy that isn't noticed by ldd. |
| 20:52.29 | levi | So... undefined symbol. Yay! |
| 20:52.40 | levi | Way to go, SUSE. |
| 20:54.27 | \me | levi: what do you think of SUSE? I've been considering trying it some time. |
| 20:55.03 | levi | I have no opinion about it in general, but this particular packaging problem really annoys me right now. |
| 20:56.26 | \me | are there a lot of supported packages for SUSE? |
| 21:01.24 | levi | I don't really know. |
| 21:01.56 | levi | I don't manage any SUSE boxes. |
| 21:02.38 | \me | I thought you were using SUSE? |
| 21:06.07 | levi | Using, not managing. |
| 21:06.38 | \me | ah |
| 21:25.42 | redbeard1 | \me: did you change jobs? |
| 21:26.19 | \me | redbeard1: yup - working at United Health Group/Ingenix now |
| 21:27.44 | \me | redbeard1: it was an excellent job - the pay was bad, and their promises weren't lived up to though |
| 21:28.01 | redbeard1 | noted. |
| 21:28.22 | Jayce^ | umm, how can you say both parts of that sentence together? |
| 21:28.25 | \me | the technology was always bleeding edge, and they gave you a lot of flexibility though |
| 21:28.48 | \me | I enjoy what I did - just didn't enjoy the environment or the pay |
| 21:28.56 | \me | s/enjoy/enjoyed/ |
| 21:29.45 | \me | now I'm in a much better environment, better pay |
| 21:30.01 | \me | have to program in php alongside perl though, but they pay for it at least |
| 21:30.51 | \me | I'll miss the cheap and free gear |
| 21:31.10 | \me | and being able to come and leave when you want |
| 21:32.14 | \me | I think there's some stuff going on behind the scenes there too - management was starting to act weird, hiring consultants and stuff |
| 21:32.53 | redbeard1 | \me: so, basically, knowing full well that you weren't happen there, you still tried to recruit me and tell me that i would love it more than my job? |
| 21:33.21 | \me | redbeard1: I was happy there, just not enough pay |
| 21:33.30 | \me | I said exactly how it was |
| 21:33.51 | Jayce^ | so you weren't happy enough to stay |
| 21:33.54 | \me | I wasn't going to recruit you there if you wouldn't be happy. Some people are still completely happy there |
| 21:34.09 | \me | Jayce^: correct |
| 21:34.17 | \me | I think it would be a great place for someone who's single |
| 21:34.18 | Jayce^ | so, you're saying he's one of "those" people |
| 21:34.26 | Jayce^ | that wouldn't be joe |
| 21:34.34 | \me | Actually, I think redbeard1 would fit in well there |
| 21:34.52 | \me | it's a very laid-back environment |
| 21:35.02 | \me | just too laid-back for me |
| 21:35.11 | \me | and I don't know if he'd like the pay |
| 21:35.18 | Jayce^ | well, I think he prefers the place he lives near, that pays quite well, etc etc.. |
| 21:35.24 | Jayce^ | just my guess :) |
| 21:35.36 | \me | yup, probably why he didn't want to work there in the first place |
| 21:35.40 | redbeard1 | my 10 minute commute is pretty stellar |
| 21:35.50 | \me | mine's about 5 mins now, very nice |
| 21:36.14 | Jayce^ | redbeard1, you're including the harmons stop in that commute time right? |
| 21:36.37 | Jayce^ | 'caus I know you're not *that* far |
| 21:39.46 | \me | I mostly wanted to have faith at my last place and hope I could get them to live up to their promises |
| 21:39.50 | \me | it had a lot of potential |
| 21:42.04 | redbeard1 | Jayce^: it wouldn't be a whole 10 minutes if people could read the 35MPH speed limit sign. they all seem to think it says 25MPH |
| 21:47.14 | *** join/#utah stuporglue (n=stuporgl@c-67-171-116-171.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 22:11.37 | harleypig | wheee ... I'm upgrading my linode gentoo setup to gcc 4.1.1 ... whish me luck |
| 22:13.58 | stuporglue | Is there going to be a UUG booth at BYU this semester? |
| 22:14.21 | harleypig | Can I put up a HarleyPig booth? |
| 22:14.26 | stuporglue | sure |
| 22:14.35 | harleypig | :] |
| 22:41.48 | \me | harleypig: me, me, me - is that all you can think of? |
| 22:42.51 | harleypig | ummm ... not in this case |
| 22:47.07 | *** join/#utah jk1joel (i=nobody@ns.jk1.net) |
| 22:53.38 | *** part/#utah [phoenyx] (n=tthorley@64.147.152.13) |
| 23:21.05 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=xbmodder@69-12-240-206.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 23:21.06 | Sargun | hey |
| 23:29.24 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@hfugal.nmsu.edu) |
| 23:30.05 | elg | -lart redbeard1 |
| 23:30.36 | Sargun | ~rlart |
| 23:38.35 | levi | What does putting the $#$ sigil in front of a perl variable do? |
| 23:51.52 | *** join/#utah elg_ (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 23:53.40 | spr | levi, $#$? wouldn't that be a $ followed by a comment? |
| 23:53.56 | levi | Apparently not. |
| 23:54.16 | spr | weird |
| 23:54.18 | levi | I suspect it returns the highest index in an array. |
| 23:54.24 | levi | I hate perl sigils. |
| 23:54.51 | Sargun | I hate parl. |