| 00:00.51 | sjansen | vontrapp: 'Cause that'd be too un-original. |
| 00:02.10 | vontrapp | what's a rails helper to escape a string for xml? |
| 00:02.39 | Tene | vontrapp: xml_escape_string_in_rails() |
| 00:05.16 | sjansen | Tene: You're obviously not a Ruby user. |
| 00:05.28 | sjansen | A better guess would be: |
| 00:05.38 | vontrapp | .to_xs? |
| 00:05.44 | vontrapp | or is that something else? |
| 00:05.45 | sjansen | "string".to_xml |
| 00:06.13 | sjansen | vontrapp: A quick google makes it look like you're right. |
| 00:09.08 | vontrapp | now the question is what do i need to inlcude to get to_xs |
| 00:09.16 | vontrapp | s/include/require/ |
| 00:09.30 | sjansen | Looks like it's an XML::Builder function. |
| 00:09.34 | Tene | #include <xml_escape_string.ruby> |
| 00:09.48 | sjansen | http://intertwingly.net/stories/2005/09/28/xchar.rb |
| 00:09.54 | maquis | so, the bagger at smiths just loaded my bag upside down |
| 00:10.02 | mdirc | sjansen: with nc listening i tried vncviewer localhost:8765, first time I do this, I see a window flash by very quickly, next time when I invoke vncviewer (making sure a previous instance is running) but I get an error message "The connection closed unexpecteldy. I don't see anything on the ubuntu side either |
| 00:10.07 | maquis | first bread, then avocados, then a carton of orange juice |
| 00:10.21 | vontrapp | ~bag maquis upside-down |
| 00:10.32 | maquis | guess what: bread and avocados don't like being underneath heavy objects |
| 00:10.57 | vontrapp | is that why you usually smash avocados? |
| 00:11.11 | sjansen | mdirc: Have you tried rebooting the Windows box? |
| 00:11.20 | Tene | maquis: did you lart the bagger? |
| 00:11.26 | maquis | Tene: not yet... |
| 00:11.34 | maquis | ~whaleslap bagger |
| 00:11.36 | ibot | ACTION beats bagger upside and over the head with a freakishly huge killer whale named Hugh |
| 00:11.38 | Tene | You should. |
| 00:11.42 | Tene | ~lart bagger |
| 00:11.46 | mdirc | sjansen: no not yet, do you think setting up port forwarding requires a reboot? |
| 00:11.57 | Tene | ~lart maquis for being too picky |
| 00:12.57 | maquis | vontrapp: true |
| 00:13.08 | maquis | might have to let him know how it feels for the poor bread |
| 00:13.12 | sjansen | I think the problem is on the Windows box. It is either with vncviewer or with Windows. |
| 00:13.48 | sjansen | A standard Windows solution is rebooting, hence the suggestion. |
| 00:15.29 | mdirc | :) rebooting, will be back soon.... |
| 00:32.34 | *** join/#utah mdirc (n=m@216.49.181.128) |
| 00:51.45 | mdirc | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:06.35 | mdirc | Is there some security setting in the default installation of ubuntu 6.0.6 that disables wan computers from accessing remote desktop or port forwarding? |
| 01:08.18 | vontrapp | is there a way specify an action _on_ a submit tag? (e.g. different from the form action) |
| 01:09.39 | graphyx | can anyone help me out here? |
| 01:09.39 | ScytheBlade1 | vontrapp, hmm? |
| 01:09.45 | graphyx | I am trying to get a perl module installed. |
| 01:09.58 | graphyx | IO::Socket::SSL |
| 01:10.16 | graphyx | and it wants me to install openssl .9.7b on debian. |
| 01:10.21 | graphyx | I have a newer version isntalled already. |
| 01:10.36 | graphyx | anyway to get it to work without screwing up what I have already in play on this production server? |
| 01:11.45 | vontrapp | ScytheBlade1: i want one button to submit the form contents to the forms action url |
| 01:12.02 | vontrapp | i want another button to submit the same form values to an alternate action url |
| 01:12.29 | ScytheBlade1 | <form action="URL" method="METHOD"><input><input><input><input type="submit"></form> |
| 01:12.30 | ScytheBlade1 | ? |
| 01:13.58 | vontrapp | one more <input type="submit" otheraction="OTHERURL" othermethod="METHOD" /> |
| 01:14.22 | ScytheBlade1 | You're into the JavaScript realm |
| 01:14.26 | vontrapp | it's looking like there's not a way |
| 01:14.47 | ScytheBlade1 | The best way that I've found to have two different submit buttons |
| 01:14.57 | ScytheBlade1 | People don't commonly know this, but it's simple and subtle |
| 01:15.27 | ScytheBlade1 | <input type="submit" name="submit1" value="Submit Option One"><input type="submit" name="submit2" value="Submit Option Two"> |
| 01:16.10 | ScytheBlade1 | using PHP as an example, if (isset($_POST["submit1"])) { option one; } elseif (isset($_POST["submit2"])) { option two; } |
| 01:16.40 | *** join/#utah Sargun (i=nobody@atarack/staff/xbmodder) |
| 01:16.53 | ScytheBlade1 | The submit buttons can have names and values, just like any other <input> |
| 01:17.20 | vontrapp | in my case it would be most simple and effective to just submit the form to the alternate url |
| 01:17.30 | ScytheBlade1 | You're into JavaScript. |
| 01:17.33 | vontrapp | it's to bad the form is structured that way |
| 01:18.06 | vontrapp | it would make a lot of sense to have actual submitter to say where it's submitting to |
| 01:27.26 | maquis | i coulda sworn i had a packet of onion soup mix |
| 01:38.30 | findlay | how do onion packets traverse the internet? |
| 01:40.36 | levi_home | I think I'm getting sick. Got a sore throat. :/ |
| 01:43.04 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 01:44.42 | ScytheBlade1 | All right. I need a networking guru. |
| 01:44.50 | ScytheBlade1 | I've tried my hand and failed :/ |
| 01:46.22 | ScytheBlade1 | I have two sites: 10.0.0.0/24 and 10.0.1.0/24, connected together via point to point T1 line |
| 01:46.58 | ScytheBlade1 | Routers are all at .1, and all I needed to do in order to get 0.200 to be able to ping 1.200 and back was enable IP forwarding and a route entry |
| 01:47.28 | ScytheBlade1 | Now I'm adding 10.0.2.0/24, and it's connecting to 10.0.1.0/24 via OpenVPN |
| 01:47.41 | ScytheBlade1 | 2.1 can ping 1.1 |
| 01:48.00 | ScytheBlade1 | And 2.1 can ping 1.10 (routed through 1.1) |
| 01:48.25 | ScytheBlade1 | But I can't get anything behind 2.1 (ie, 2.200) to ping anything in the 1.0/24 or 0.0/24 subnet :( |
| 01:48.30 | vontrapp | ScytheBlade1: connections on 10.0.0.0/24 route through 10.0.0.1 ? |
| 01:48.36 | vontrapp | and likewise with 10.0.1.0/24? |
| 01:48.56 | ScytheBlade1 | Yup, all routers here are at .1 of their /24 subnet |
| 01:49.08 | vontrapp | wait, you have a 10.0.2.0/24 also? |
| 01:49.13 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm adding 2.0/24 |
| 01:49.23 | ScytheBlade1 | 0.0/24 and 1.0/24 can talk fine |
| 01:49.37 | ScytheBlade1 | 1.100 can ping 0.100 fine, no problem |
| 01:50.04 | ScytheBlade1 | Now, I'm adding in 2.0/24, and can't get any clients of 2.1 to ping 0.0/24 or 1.0/24 |
| 01:50.28 | vontrapp | you could have 10.0.0.1 route to both other subnets |
| 01:50.39 | ScytheBlade1 | 2.1 itself is connected to 1.1, and 2.1 can ping 1.100 |
| 01:50.42 | vontrapp | or you could have each of the three routers know routes to both other subnets |
| 01:51.15 | ScytheBlade1 | I can't connect 2.0 to 1.0 and 0.0 at the same time |
| 01:51.22 | ScytheBlade1 | Simply because 0.0 has next to no bandwidth ;) |
| 01:51.35 | vontrapp | so... how are they connected? |
| 01:52.11 | ScytheBlade1 | 0.0 <--> point to point T1 (w1g1ppp) <--> 1.0 <--> internet/OpenVPN (tun0) <--> 2.0 |
| 01:52.40 | vontrapp | oh, 2.0 is a vpn connection |
| 01:52.44 | ScytheBlade1 | Yeah |
| 01:52.53 | ScytheBlade1 | Hence why I can't connect 2.0 to 0.0 due to bandwidth |
| 01:54.00 | ScytheBlade1 | 0.0 has a route entry pointing 1.0/24 through w1g1ppp, and 1.0 has a route entry pointing 0.0/24 through w1g1ppp |
| 01:54.02 | vontrapp | where is the vpn endpoint? |
| 01:54.07 | ScytheBlade1 | 1.1 |
| 01:54.10 | vontrapp | s/is/are/ |
| 01:54.15 | vontrapp | s/point/points/ |
| 01:54.22 | ScytheBlade1 | heh |
| 01:54.31 | vontrapp | so on the router |
| 01:54.33 | ScytheBlade1 | 1.1 is the only endpoint |
| 01:54.38 | ScytheBlade1 | 2.1 is the client |
| 01:54.47 | *** join/#utah RyanE_ (i=Piadas@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 01:54.48 | vontrapp | that's an endpoint, too |
| 01:55.04 | ScytheBlade1 | Technicality. ;) |
| 01:55.14 | vontrapp | 2.1 can ping any address? or just 1.1 |
| 01:55.26 | ScytheBlade1 | 2.1 can ping 1.0/24 just fine |
| 01:55.37 | vontrapp | but not 0.0/24 |
| 01:55.42 | ScytheBlade1 | 64 bytes from 10.0.1.10: icmp_seq=1 ttl=127 time=77.5 ms |
| 01:55.43 | ScytheBlade1 | Right |
| 01:55.45 | ScytheBlade1 | And, likewise |
| 01:55.59 | ScytheBlade1 | 2.0/24, excluding 2.1, cannot ping 1.0/24 |
| 01:56.01 | ScytheBlade1 | And it needs to |
| 01:56.39 | ScytheBlade1 | 10.0.1.0 * 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 tun0 |
| 01:56.40 | ScytheBlade1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:56.58 | ScytheBlade1 | I can add a 0.0/24 route out of tun0 also, but that doesn't work at all |
| 01:57.56 | vontrapp | do you have iproute? |
| 01:58.02 | ScytheBlade1 | I do |
| 01:58.15 | vontrapp | what does ip route say on 1.1? |
| 01:59.22 | ScytheBlade1 | http://8df8a31b4bf7e44d.paste.se/ |
| 02:01.17 | vontrapp | and "ip route get 10.0.0.1" from 2.1 |
| 02:01.55 | ScytheBlade1 | 0.0/24 is going out eth0 due to lack of a route for it on 2.1 |
| 02:02.00 | ScytheBlade1 | 10.0.0.1 via 192.168.0.1 dev eth0 src 192.168.0.93 |
| 02:02.20 | vontrapp | ip route on 2.1? |
| 02:02.32 | ScytheBlade1 | (All other traffic that's not headed for 10.0.0.0/16 needs to go out eth0) |
| 02:02.36 | vontrapp | that's your problem there |
| 02:02.52 | ScytheBlade1 | http://97d0e20e7aab8f5f.paste.se/ <-- ip route on 2.1 |
| 02:03.54 | vontrapp | on 2.1: ip route add 10.0.0.0/16 dev tun0 |
| 02:04.16 | ScytheBlade1 | /16? |
| 02:04.23 | ScytheBlade1 | Well |
| 02:04.27 | ScytheBlade1 | It won't break things, so k |
| 02:04.37 | vontrapp | 10.0.*.* will go through tun0 |
| 02:04.41 | *** join/#utah thaabit (n=thaabit@65-100-217-102.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 02:04.56 | ScytheBlade1 | Yeah I know, as a result it just threw me off for a moment |
| 02:04.58 | thaabit | is there no perlmongers group for utah? |
| 02:04.59 | vontrapp | _except_ 10.0.2.0/24, since there's a more local rule for that already |
| 02:05.03 | ScytheBlade1 | Right |
| 02:05.18 | ScytheBlade1 | Either way, 2.1 still can't ping 0.1, I'm assuming due to routes on 1.1 |
| 02:05.40 | vontrapp | what is ip route on 2.1 now? |
| 02:05.57 | ScytheBlade1 | Just throw in a "10.0.0.0/16 dev tun0 scope link |
| 02:05.57 | ScytheBlade1 | " |
| 02:05.58 | ScytheBlade1 | As you said |
| 02:06.12 | vontrapp | still doesn't work? |
| 02:06.45 | vontrapp | try "10.0.0.0/16 via 10.0.1.1 dev tun0" |
| 02:06.46 | ScytheBlade1 | 2.1 can ping 1.1, but not 0.1 |
| 02:06.54 | ScytheBlade1 | ooooohhhhhhhh |
| 02:07.29 | ScytheBlade1 | Command "10.0.0.0/16" is unknown, try "ip route help". |
| 02:07.29 | ScytheBlade1 | ;) |
| 02:07.43 | vontrapp | hehe |
| 02:07.59 | ScytheBlade1 | http://f90c0e8cef50ee9a.paste.se/ <-- 2.1 routing table with 0.0/16 going through tun0 |
| 02:08.10 | vontrapp | here's the vpn routes on my router |
| 02:08.12 | vontrapp | 172.17.64.0/24 via 172.17.0.64 dev br0 |
| 02:08.12 | vontrapp | 172.16.59.0/24 via 166.70.4.105 dev ppp0 src 172.17.0.3 |
| 02:08.12 | vontrapp | 172.17.99.0/24 via 172.17.0.99 dev br0 |
| 02:08.12 | vontrapp | 172.17.0.0/24 dev br0 proto kernel scope link src 172.17.0.3 |
| 02:08.23 | vontrapp | er, wrong term |
| 02:08.34 | vontrapp | that's on falcon, the VPN server |
| 02:09.13 | ScytheBlade1 | Actually here |
| 02:09.14 | ScytheBlade1 | http://eebf238006d3d45e.paste.se/ |
| 02:09.22 | ScytheBlade1 | ip route of 2.1, 1.1, and 0.1 |
| 02:09.28 | *** join/#utah RyanE (i=Piadas@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 02:10.00 | ScytheBlade1 | Also of note: I have NO iptables entries currently |
| 02:10.15 | vontrapp | still no "via" on the 10.0.0.0/16 route |
| 02:10.27 | ScytheBlade1 | Right, due to the error I pasted up there |
| 02:10.37 | ScytheBlade1 | err |
| 02:10.39 | ScytheBlade1 | sec :P |
| 02:10.50 | vontrapp | ip route add 10.0.0.0/16 via 10.0.1.0 dev tun0 |
| 02:11.17 | vontrapp | yikes |
| 02:11.24 | ScytheBlade1 | RTNETLINK answers: File exists |
| 02:11.34 | ScytheBlade1 | and yes, s/1.0/1.1/ was tried also |
| 02:11.48 | vontrapp | oh, nm |
| 02:12.02 | vontrapp | oh yeah, i meant 1.1 |
| 02:12.06 | ScytheBlade1 | I tried 1.1 ;) |
| 02:12.17 | ScytheBlade1 | Refer to above paste of error, "File exists" |
| 02:12.19 | vontrapp | ip route change 10.0.0.0/16 via 10.0.1.1 dev tun0 |
| 02:12.50 | ScytheBlade1 | 2.1 is pinging 1.1, but not 0.1 |
| 02:13.12 | vontrapp | what does "ip route get 10.0.0.1" give you? |
| 02:13.17 | vontrapp | from 2.1 |
| 02:13.30 | ScytheBlade1 | via 1.1 |
| 02:13.34 | ScytheBlade1 | 10.0.0.1 via 10.0.1.1 dev tun0 src 10.254.253.6 |
| 02:13.57 | vontrapp | ooohh, src is wrong |
| 02:14.12 | ScytheBlade1 | Also, 2.1 can't ping 1.1 |
| 02:14.14 | ScytheBlade1 | errrr |
| 02:14.20 | ScytheBlade1 | 1.1 can't ping 2.1 |
| 02:14.25 | vontrapp | ip route change 10.0.0.0/16 via 10.0.1.1 dev tun0 src 10.0.2.1 |
| 02:14.38 | ScytheBlade1 | RTNETLINK answers: Network is unreachable |
| 02:15.09 | ScytheBlade1 | Can you see why I'm a little confused all around here? ;) |
| 02:15.25 | vontrapp | yeah, it's a little bogglesome at times ;) |
| 02:16.40 | ScytheBlade1 | Let's back up a bit |
| 02:16.42 | vontrapp | did you do that last change command? |
| 02:16.48 | ScytheBlade1 | <ScytheBlade1> RTNETLINK answers: Network is unreachable |
| 02:16.56 | vontrapp | oh, that was from that... |
| 02:17.07 | ScytheBlade1 | Indeed |
| 02:18.22 | vontrapp | ip route add 10.0.1.1 dev tun0 scope link |
| 02:18.47 | ScytheBlade1 | Still not touching 0.1 |
| 02:18.52 | ScytheBlade1 | But it can see 1.1 just fine |
| 02:19.03 | vontrapp | so that's fixed 1.1? or did you already fix that? |
| 02:19.21 | ScytheBlade1 | 2.1 <--> 1.1 was working before ;) |
| 02:19.41 | ScytheBlade1 | It's getting 2.0/24 talking to 0.0/24 and 1.0/24 |
| 02:20.03 | ScytheBlade1 | (likewise, 2.1 <--!!!!--> 0.1) |
| 02:20.39 | vontrapp | you said before 1.1 can't ping 2.1 |
| 02:21.21 | ScytheBlade1 | Text diagram: |
| 02:21.42 | ScytheBlade1 | 0.1/24 <--> 1.1/24 <-- 2.1 |
| 02:21.58 | ScytheBlade1 | Needs to be: 0.1/24 <--> 1.1/24 <--> 2.1/24 |
| 02:22.05 | ScytheBlade1 | erm, all of .1 need to be .0 |
| 02:22.12 | ScytheBlade1 | But yeah |
| 02:24.31 | ScytheBlade1 | One moment, lemme type this up in a bit more verbose detail |
| 02:25.15 | ScytheBlade1 | http://a6367725a55bcc11.paste.se/ |
| 02:25.21 | ScytheBlade1 | All of those CANNOTs need to be CANs ;) |
| 02:25.55 | vontrapp | what gives "ip addr" on 2.1? |
| 02:26.19 | ScytheBlade1 | http://4a086d3a9d917444.paste.se/ |
| 02:27.43 | *** join/#utah herlo (n=herlo@12.184.89.194) |
| 02:28.33 | vontrapp | ok, do this |
| 02:28.37 | herlo | maquis: herlo wants voice |
| 02:29.19 | vontrapp | ip route change 10.0.0.0/16 via 10.254.254.5 |
| 02:29.28 | ScytheBlade1 | on 2.1, correct? |
| 02:29.37 | vontrapp | actually, make that |
| 02:30.00 | *** join/#utah marlowe (n=marlow@c-67-172-240-101.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 02:30.29 | vontrapp | ip route change 10.0.0.0/16 via 10.254.254.5 dev tun0 |
| 02:30.38 | vontrapp | on 2.1, yes |
| 02:30.56 | ScytheBlade1 | RTNETLINK answers: Network is unreachable |
| 02:31.13 | goozbach | ~lart ex girlfriends |
| 02:31.26 | goozbach | ok that was rough |
| 02:31.41 | vontrapp | oh, my bad |
| 02:32.02 | ScytheBlade1 | vontrapp, for the record, you're the only one out of freenode.net/iptables and irc.oftc.net/lartc to respond ;) |
| 02:32.06 | ScytheBlade1 | vontrapp, so thank you ;) |
| 02:32.25 | vontrapp | ip route change 10.0.0.0/16 via 10.254.253.5 dev tun0 |
| 02:32.43 | ScytheBlade1 | All right |
| 02:33.02 | ScytheBlade1 | 2.1 --> 1.1, 1.1 !!--> 2.1 |
| 02:33.16 | vontrapp | :-/ |
| 02:33.26 | vontrapp | 2.1 --> 0.1 ? |
| 02:33.35 | vontrapp | or 2.1 ??--> 0.1 :) |
| 02:33.48 | ScytheBlade1 | 2.1 !--> 0.1 |
| 02:34.31 | vontrapp | ScytheBlade1: yours is a little different than openvpn, which i'm used to |
| 02:34.39 | ScytheBlade1 | vontrapp, this IS OpenVPN ;) |
| 02:34.52 | vontrapp | well it's set up a bit different then :) |
| 02:35.01 | ScytheBlade1 | Aug 1 14:22:14 localhost openvpn[6786]: VERIFY OK: depth=0, /C=US/ST=UT/L=Salt_Lake_City/O=1stm |
| 02:35.16 | ScytheBlade1 | It's in router mode, not bridged mode |
| 02:35.33 | ScytheBlade1 | You had bridges in your config, I don't |
| 02:35.45 | vontrapp | yeah, that's what's throwing me ... |
| 02:36.31 | ScytheBlade1 | I have 2.200 next to me |
| 02:37.06 | ScytheBlade1 | pinging: 10.0.0.1, 10.0.0.10, 10.0.1.1, and a public IP address |
| 02:37.29 | ScytheBlade1 | Currently, no pings are going through to 0.0/24 or 0.1/24, and that's what I'm trying to fix for now |
| 02:37.39 | ScytheBlade1 | the public IP address is just an iptables bit, the routing is fine on that |
| 02:38.15 | vontrapp | "ip addr" on 1.1 |
| 02:38.15 | marlowe | are you using mandriva/mandrake? |
| 02:38.46 | ScytheBlade1 | http://8c2845aa7cd077e9.paste.se/ |
| 02:38.49 | ScytheBlade1 | marlowe, no |
| 02:38.57 | ScytheBlade1 | marlowe, custom distro |
| 02:39.12 | marlowe | okay - cause mandriva has msec which when set to a high level stops ping |
| 02:39.57 | ScytheBlade1 | Yeah, and unfortunately, that's not the problem |
| 02:39.58 | vontrapp | ok, one more try... |
| 02:40.06 | ScytheBlade1 | If it was, I'd know how to make it work ;) |
| 02:40.34 | vontrapp | ip route change 10.0.0.0/16 via 10.254.253.1 |
| 02:40.49 | ScytheBlade1 | So much for that try |
| 02:40.50 | ScytheBlade1 | RTNETLINK answers: Network is unreachable |
| 02:40.51 | ScytheBlade1 | ;) |
| 02:40.57 | vontrapp | ip route change 10.0.0.0/16 via 10.254.253.1 dev tun0 |
| 02:41.12 | ScytheBlade1 | RTNETLINK answers: Network is unreachable |
| 02:41.21 | vontrapp | ping 10.254.253.1? |
| 02:41.24 | ScytheBlade1 | (think of it as an SSH connection with latency) |
| 02:41.37 | ScytheBlade1 | Pinging just fine from 2.1 |
| 02:41.54 | vontrapp | an ssh connection with contextual feedback ;) |
| 02:42.00 | ScytheBlade1 | hehe |
| 02:42.13 | vontrapp | ip route get 10.0.1.1 |
| 02:42.28 | ScytheBlade1 | 10.0.1.1 dev tun0 src 10.254.253.6 |
| 02:42.32 | ScytheBlade1 | .6 is what you're looking for, I take it |
| 02:42.44 | ScytheBlade1 | localhost ~ # ip route change 10.0.0.0/16 via 10.254.253.6 dev tun0 |
| 02:42.45 | ScytheBlade1 | That works fine |
| 02:42.55 | vontrapp | trying to get an idea of how the whole thing is strewn together |
| 02:43.10 | ScytheBlade1 | Actually that should be .5 for that command |
| 02:43.14 | vontrapp | ok... |
| 02:43.21 | vontrapp | ip route del 10.0.0.0/16 |
| 02:43.34 | ScytheBlade1 | haha |
| 02:43.35 | ScytheBlade1 | Okay, done |
| 02:43.39 | vontrapp | ping 10.0.1.1 |
| 02:43.48 | ScytheBlade1 | Works. |
| 02:43.51 | vontrapp | ping 10.0.0.1 |
| 02:43.59 | ScytheBlade1 | Does not work |
| 02:44.13 | ScytheBlade1 | So that's an issue from |
| 02:44.16 | ScytheBlade1 | err, disregard |
| 02:44.20 | ScytheBlade1 | Lemme run tcpdump -i tun0 on 1.1 |
| 02:44.22 | ScytheBlade1 | sec |
| 02:44.29 | vontrapp | ip route add 10.0.0.0/16 dev tun0 src 10.254.253.6 |
| 02:44.57 | vontrapp | good idea |
| 02:45.02 | ScytheBlade1 | With that ^^^ route command, 1.1 IS seeing the pings coming across |
| 02:45.29 | ScytheBlade1 | (But they're not being forwarded to 0.1 it doesn't look like) |
| 02:45.44 | vontrapp | ok, so it's getting them ,but it's not routing them... |
| 02:45.46 | ScytheBlade1 | No wait, they are |
| 02:45.56 | vontrapp | oh? |
| 02:46.04 | ScytheBlade1 | 0.1 IS getting the pings from 2.1.. |
| 02:46.07 | ScytheBlade1 | ... |
| 02:46.10 | ScytheBlade1 | One moment |
| 02:46.12 | vontrapp | but it's not getting back |
| 02:46.27 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm pinging 0.10 instead of 0.1 (no firewall) |
| 02:46.37 | ScytheBlade1 | Not coming back, still being seen |
| 02:47.12 | vontrapp | ip route change 10.0.0.0/16 via 10.0.1.1 dev tun0 src 10.254.253.6 |
| 02:47.35 | ScytheBlade1 | No change |
| 02:48.09 | vontrapp | ok, on 0.1: |
| 02:48.15 | Sargun | has anyone here implemented IPv6 in their own private network? |
| 02:48.45 | ScytheBlade1 | 0.1 is seeing the pings as 10.254.253.6 btw |
| 02:49.06 | vontrapp | scratch that |
| 02:49.09 | vontrapp | on 2.1 |
| 02:49.23 | vontrapp | ip route change 10.0.0.0/16 via 10.0.1.1 dev tun0 src 10.0.2.1 |
| 02:49.35 | vontrapp | what does that give you? |
| 02:49.47 | ScytheBlade1 | Same, 0.1 is seeing the pings coming in through 10.254.253.6 |
| 02:50.08 | vontrapp | ok, on 0.1 |
| 02:50.34 | vontrapp | ip route add 10.254.253.0/24 via 10.0.1.1 |
| 02:50.52 | ScytheBlade1 | Still not coming back |
| 02:51.04 | vontrapp | ip route get 10.254.253.6 |
| 02:51.22 | ScytheBlade1 | via w1g1ppp, so progress |
| 02:51.32 | ScytheBlade1 | But I just realized 1.1 isn't getting them now |
| 02:51.41 | ScytheBlade1 | and in turn, 0.1 isn't either ;) |
| 02:51.45 | vontrapp | on 2.1: |
| 02:51.53 | ScytheBlade1 | ip route change 10.0.0.0/16 via 10.0.1.1 dev tun0 src 10.254.253.6 |
| 02:51.53 | ScytheBlade1 | ? |
| 02:52.02 | vontrapp | ip route change 10.0.0.0/16 via 10.0.1.1 dev tun0 src 10.254.253.6 |
| 02:52.06 | vontrapp | yes |
| 02:52.10 | vontrapp | beat me ;) |
| 02:52.21 | ScytheBlade1 | Victory! |
| 02:52.30 | vontrapp | on 0.1 |
| 02:53.04 | vontrapp | oh, wlglppp is the one you want... |
| 02:53.05 | vontrapp | nm |
| 02:53.08 | maquis | herlo: why do you care? you can talk all you want |
| 02:53.13 | vontrapp | is it working now? |
| 02:53.20 | maquis | goozbach: what happened |
| 02:53.24 | ScytheBlade1 | 2.1 can ping 1.10, so close |
| 02:53.43 | ScytheBlade1 | 1.1 cannot ping 2.1, but neither can 1.1 |
| 02:53.52 | vontrapp | 1.10? |
| 02:54.14 | ScytheBlade1 | I don't have a shell to 1.10, and I don't want to RDP at 800x600 ;) |
| 02:54.24 | vontrapp | hehe |
| 02:54.30 | *** join/#utah [phoenyx] (n=tthorley@71-35-236-89.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 02:54.39 | vontrapp | 1.1: ping 2.1 |
| 02:54.47 | ScytheBlade1 | Doesn't work |
| 02:54.55 | vontrapp | 2.1: ping 0.1 |
| 02:55.06 | ScytheBlade1 | 64 bytes from 10.0.0.10: icmp_seq=128 ttl=126 time=80.6 ms |
| 02:55.18 | vontrapp | 2.1: ping 1.1 |
| 02:55.34 | ScytheBlade1 | Also works |
| 02:56.02 | vontrapp | 0.1: ping 2.1 |
| 02:56.07 | ScytheBlade1 | Does not work |
| 02:56.13 | ScytheBlade1 | 1.1: ping 2.1 also does not work |
| 02:56.16 | vontrapp | 1.1: ping 10.254.253.6 |
| 02:56.29 | ScytheBlade1 | That works |
| 02:56.48 | vontrapp | 1.1: ip route add 10.0.2.0/24 dev tun0 scope link |
| 02:57.05 | ScytheBlade1 | RTNETLINK answers: File exists |
| 02:57.17 | vontrapp | 1.1: ip route get 10.0.2.1 |
| 02:57.41 | ScytheBlade1 | 10.0.2.1 dev tun0 src 10.254.253.1 |
| 02:58.13 | vontrapp | ip route change 10.0.2.0/24 via 10.254.253.6 dev tun0 scope link |
| 02:58.21 | vontrapp | on 1.1 |
| 02:58.34 | ScytheBlade1 | net unreachable :/ |
| 02:59.24 | vontrapp | where is that coming from? |
| 02:59.33 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm not seeing a .2 anywhere |
| 02:59.47 | vontrapp | 10.254.253.2 dev tun0 proto kernel scope link src 10.254.253.1 |
| 02:59.53 | vontrapp | on 1.1 |
| 03:00.01 | vontrapp | your old paste, maybe it's stale |
| 03:00.13 | vontrapp | http://eebf238006d3d45e.paste.se/ |
| 03:00.34 | ScytheBlade1 | Updating it, moment |
| 03:01.33 | ScytheBlade1 | Why am I using a paste service when I can save it locally to a webserver... |
| 03:01.46 | ScytheBlade1 | vontrapp, http://www.brantleyonline.com/networkingpaste.txt |
| 03:02.57 | marlowe | can you do everything but ping? ssh/http/curl etc to it? |
| 03:03.10 | ScytheBlade1 | marlowe, from what to what? |
| 03:03.29 | marlowe | to the 'one' that is causing you this trouble |
| 03:03.40 | ScytheBlade1 | They're all causing me trouble ;) |
| 03:03.51 | ScytheBlade1 | But none of them have ICMP blocked internally |
| 03:05.18 | marlowe | i have a a8v-mx motherboard with 2.6.16.x that says the ethernet driver on board is loaded (lsmod) and alternatively added pci r8169 driver is loaded but doesn't work - this motherboard's ethernete only works with win xp and openbsd |
| 03:05.23 | vontrapp | 1.1: ip route change 10.0.2.0/24 via 10.254.253.6 dev tun0 src 10.254.253.1 |
| 03:05.45 | ScytheBlade1 | RTNETLINK answers: Network is unreachable |
| 03:06.05 | vontrapp | bah |
| 03:06.34 | vontrapp | ip route change 10.0.2.0/24 via 10.254.253.2 dev tun0 src 10.254.253.1 |
| 03:06.49 | ScytheBlade1 | Success, that line worked |
| 03:06.57 | vontrapp | 1.1: ping 2.1 |
| 03:06.58 | *** part/#utah [phoenyx] (n=tthorley@71-35-236-89.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 03:07.30 | ScytheBlade1 | nope, and nothing coming in at all on tun0 on 2.1 |
| 03:08.00 | vontrapp | ip route change 10.0.2.0/24 dev tun0 scope link |
| 03:08.12 | ScytheBlade1 | on 1.1? |
| 03:08.23 | vontrapp | yes |
| 03:08.57 | vontrapp | 1.1: ping 2.1 |
| 03:09.09 | ScytheBlade1 | Bah, nothing |
| 03:09.10 | vontrapp | is it coming through to tun0 on 2.1? |
| 03:09.42 | ScytheBlade1 | Nothing at all |
| 03:09.52 | vontrapp | was it before? |
| 03:10.02 | vontrapp | 1.1: ip route get 2.1 |
| 03:10.15 | ScytheBlade1 | 10.0.2.1 dev tun0 src 10.254.253.1 |
| 03:10.17 | ScytheBlade1 | That's right... |
| 03:10.49 | ScytheBlade1 | And no, I don't believe so |
| 03:10.52 | vontrapp | 1.1: ip route del 10.0.2.0/24 |
| 03:11.04 | vontrapp | 1.1: ip route add 10.0.2.0/24 dev tun0 scope link |
| 03:11.17 | ScytheBlade1 | Still nothing |
| 03:12.18 | vontrapp | 1.1: ip route get 10.0.2.1 |
| 03:12.44 | ScytheBlade1 | 10.0.2.1 dev tun0 src 10.254.253.1 |
| 03:12.46 | ScytheBlade1 | Same line ;) |
| 03:13.33 | vontrapp | i'm out of ideas |
| 03:13.41 | vontrapp | at least it's working one way :D |
| 03:13.45 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 03:13.49 | ScytheBlade1 | The thing about it |
| 03:13.59 | ScytheBlade1 | Is that it was working one-way before ;) |
| 03:14.04 | ScytheBlade1 | Outbound PPTP VPN ;) |
| 03:14.08 | vontrapp | hehe, yeah |
| 03:14.15 | vontrapp | don't know what's up with that |
| 03:14.27 | vontrapp | i have to go pick up my roommate |
| 03:14.29 | vontrapp | i'll be back |
| 03:14.33 | ScytheBlade1 | Thank you anyways |
| 03:14.36 | ScytheBlade1 | Really, thanks |
| 03:15.05 | marlowe | scyth - what do you have? |
| 03:15.12 | ScytheBlade1 | marlowe, ? |
| 03:15.15 | ScytheBlade1 | marlowe, in terms of what? |
| 03:15.17 | marlowe | ethernet |
| 03:15.40 | ScytheBlade1 | marlowe, I have a good 1000' of ethernet cable... I'm not sure I understand what you're asking ;) |
| 03:15.57 | marlowe | the ethernet boards/drivers |
| 03:16.26 | ScytheBlade1 | In this case, all of the NICs themselves are embedded, or they're running T1 cards |
| 03:17.05 | marlowe | without the vpn on - can you ping back and forth |
| 03:17.40 | ScytheBlade1 | I can currently |
| 03:18.17 | marlowe | so when you start the vpn you loose communication between the ethernet ports |
| 03:18.25 | ScytheBlade1 | Nope |
| 03:18.42 | ScytheBlade1 | site 1 <-- point to point T1 --> site 2 <-- VPN --> site 3 |
| 03:21.18 | marlowe | linux at all sites? check /etc/sysctl.conf |
| 03:21.18 | marlowe | net.ipv4.ip_forward = 1 |
| 03:21.34 | ScytheBlade1 | It's set |
| 03:27.19 | findlay | why does screen not set the title of the terminal anymore? |
| 03:28.48 | tensai | ScytheBlade1: 10.0.1.1 can ping 10.0.2.1, 10.0.2.1 can ping 10.0.3.1? |
| 03:29.20 | ScytheBlade1 | tensai, you've gotta -1 on all of the .c., but: |
| 03:29.38 | ScytheBlade1 | 0.1 <--> 1.1 2.1 --> 1.1 |
| 03:29.39 | ScytheBlade1 | That's it |
| 03:30.33 | tensai | ScytheBlade1: whoops. off by one. how'd I do that? |
| 03:30.45 | ScytheBlade1 | tensai, if I knew, I'd tell you :) |
| 03:31.03 | tensai | ScytheBlade1: soon as you tell me I can fix your network :P |
| 03:31.25 | ScytheBlade1 | tensai, I'm up against a wall then :/ |
| 03:31.41 | tensai | routing table on 0.1? |
| 03:31.54 | ScytheBlade1 | http://www.brantleyonline.com/networkingpaste.txt |
| 03:31.57 | ScytheBlade1 | All of the above and then some |
| 03:32.02 | tensai | reading... |
| 03:33.25 | findlay | ibot: I'm bored |
| 03:33.33 | ibot | go touch yourself findlay |
| 03:33.36 | findlay | ibot: I am bored |
| 03:33.38 | ibot | it is my pleasure to meet you, bored |
| 03:33.48 | findlay | ibot: you are a retard |
| 03:33.49 | ibot | I think you lost me on that one, findlay |
| 03:33.56 | findlay | of course |
| 03:34.24 | tensai | ScytheBlade1: you've got 10.0.1.0/24 defined on both 0.1 and 1.1 |
| 03:34.49 | ScytheBlade1 | Know what I'm going to do? |
| 03:34.56 | ScytheBlade1 | Reboot all the routers and reset the routing tables to default |
| 03:35.11 | ScytheBlade1 | Gimme a sec here |
| 03:35.43 | tensai | in the mean time I'll diagram up how we set up our T1s |
| 03:35.55 | ScytheBlade1 | tensai, seriously, any help is GREATLY appreciated :) |
| 03:40.11 | ScytheBlade1 | tensai, refresh that networkingpaste.txt |
| 03:40.41 | tensai | http://paste.lisp.org/display/23524 |
| 03:41.22 | ScytheBlade1 | tensai, right, that's nearly *identical* to the link between 0.1 and 1.1 |
| 03:41.52 | tensai | on 0.1, this confuses me: |
| 03:41.55 | tensai | 10.0.1.0/24 dev w1g1ppp scope link |
| 03:42.40 | ScytheBlade1 | That's telling 0.0/24 that 1.0/24 is available on the other end of w1g1ppp |
| 03:42.43 | ScytheBlade1 | That's all |
| 03:43.00 | vontrapp | tensai: w1g1ppp is the t1 connecting 0.1 and 1.1 |
| 03:43.10 | ScytheBlade1 | What he said |
| 03:43.21 | tensai | ok. maybe I was expecting it to show the route peer |
| 03:43.26 | tensai | rather than just the device |
| 03:43.55 | tensai | yeah, like this |
| 03:44.03 | tensai | root@alberto:~# ip route add 192.168.172.0/24 via 10.42.41.1 |
| 03:44.09 | tensai | 192.168.172.0/24 via 10.42.41.1 dev vlan1 |
| 03:44.23 | tensai | notice the via? that's what I'm looking for. |
| 03:44.46 | ScytheBlade1 | In this case, the via is assumed. That's on the router itself |
| 03:45.17 | tensai | what I read that route statement to say is that 10.0.1.0/24 is on the t1 link, not that it's available across the link. it *is* the link. |
| 03:45.42 | ScytheBlade1 | It works ;) |
| 03:45.50 | vontrapp | tensai: i guess a via isn't needed because the other side simply receives off that line |
| 03:45.57 | ScytheBlade1 | Right. |
| 03:46.38 | tensai | still seems odd to me. my openvpn routes all have a via |
| 03:46.44 | vontrapp | tensai: i see it all the time with a dev but no via |
| 03:46.53 | ScytheBlade1 | tensai, that w1g1ppp isn't openvpn |
| 03:46.55 | vontrapp | that particular one is not vpn |
| 03:47.00 | ScytheBlade1 | tensai, that one is just a P2P T1 |
| 03:47.16 | ScytheBlade1 | The routes between 1.1 and 2.1 have the OpenVPN |
| 03:47.25 | tensai | all of my t1 experience is with ciscos, so I can't say I'm exactly at home here |
| 03:48.00 | ScytheBlade1 | The T1 isn't the problem |
| 03:48.03 | ScytheBlade1 | It's the OpenVPN |
| 03:48.18 | tensai | but 0.1 can ping 1.1, and 1.1 can ping 2.1, right? |
| 03:48.26 | tensai | we should be a half step from being done |
| 03:48.44 | ScytheBlade1 | 1.1 cannot ping 2.1 |
| 03:48.51 | ScytheBlade1 | 0.1 <--> 1.1 *just fine* |
| 03:48.58 | ScytheBlade1 | 1.1 !!!--> 2.1 |
| 03:49.00 | ScytheBlade1 | 2.1 --> 1.1 |
| 03:49.09 | ScytheBlade1 | :) |
| 03:49.13 | tensai | oh, interesting. only one way? |
| 03:49.18 | ScytheBlade1 | Yup. |
| 03:49.23 | vontrapp | but before, it was the other way around |
| 03:49.27 | tensai | that's just wrong |
| 03:49.30 | ScytheBlade1 | No it wasn't ;) |
| 03:49.35 | tensai | you should fix that |
| 03:49.35 | vontrapp | oh? |
| 03:49.39 | vontrapp | i thoguht it was |
| 03:49.43 | ScytheBlade1 | tensai, I know I should :) |
| 03:49.49 | tensai | :D |
| 03:49.58 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 03:50.02 | vontrapp | 2.1 --> 0.1 also |
| 03:50.05 | ScytheBlade1 | Okay, that brought a much needed laugh here, thanks |
| 03:50.23 | ScytheBlade1 | vontrapp, I rebooted the routers, their tables are at defaults now |
| 03:50.24 | tensai | any firewalls on any box? |
| 03:50.24 | herlo | maquis: herlo: why do you care? you can talk all you want... What is that supposed to mean? |
| 03:50.28 | ScytheBlade1 | so 2.1 no longer can hit 0.1 |
| 03:50.37 | ScytheBlade1 | tensai, yes, but not on any internal interfaces |
| 03:50.41 | vontrapp | ScytheBlade1: so 2.1 !--> 0.1? |
| 03:50.52 | ScytheBlade1 | vontrapp, not now. I reset it all to default when tenasi popped in. |
| 03:51.08 | tensai | ScytheBlade1: ah, the eth1 |
| 03:51.12 | vontrapp | i thought that 1.1 could ping 2.1 when we first started |
| 03:51.17 | ScytheBlade1 | vontrapp, nope |
| 03:51.32 | ScytheBlade1 | networking sucks :) |
| 03:51.34 | vontrapp | that's strange |
| 03:51.56 | vontrapp | so when we first started, you could only get from 2.1 --> 1.1? |
| 03:52.00 | ScytheBlade1 | correct |
| 03:52.05 | vontrapp | and 2.x --> 1.1 |
| 03:52.09 | vontrapp | and 2.1 --> 1.x |
| 03:52.14 | ScytheBlade1 | Nope |
| 03:52.21 | ScytheBlade1 | only 2.1 could ping 1.0/24 |
| 03:52.29 | ScytheBlade1 | 2.0/24 could never ping anything on 1.0/24 |
| 03:52.34 | vontrapp | right, but 2.10 could ping 1.1? |
| 03:52.37 | ScytheBlade1 | Nope. |
| 03:52.44 | vontrapp | hrmmm |
| 03:52.47 | ScytheBlade1 | Not unless your name was 2.1 |
| 03:52.50 | maquis | herlo: i just don't think it's necessary to give *everyone* in the channel voice if it's not moderated |
| 03:53.02 | maquis | (or, if it's moderated very temporarily) |
| 03:53.02 | vontrapp | ~voice herlo |
| 03:53.18 | herlo | maquis: I was just having a bit of fun at your expense -- :-D |
| 03:53.31 | ScytheBlade1 | The goal: 0.0/24 <--> 1.0/24 <--> 2.0/24, where 2.0/24 talks to 0.0/24 via 1.1 |
| 03:53.37 | ScytheBlade1 | and vice-versa |
| 03:53.43 | maquis | herlo: sorry... my sarcasm/humor detector is low on batteries |
| 03:53.49 | ScytheBlade1 | maquis, why was it moderated? |
| 03:53.55 | herlo | maquis: fair enough |
| 03:54.00 | maquis | ScytheBlade1: we had an issue with some script kiddies yesterday |
| 03:54.06 | ScytheBlade1 | maquis, ah. Fun times |
| 03:54.11 | vontrapp | ph43rs0me h4ckrzz |
| 03:54.11 | maquis | yup |
| 03:54.20 | maquis | herlo: thx :) |
| 03:54.27 | herlo | maquis: anytime |
| 03:54.34 | ScytheBlade1 | I idle on a much smaller network and channel... it's often the target of bot/spam attacks |
| 03:54.45 | maquis | quick question for people: i get these random logwatch emails telling me what things have been happening n my machine |
| 03:54.46 | ScytheBlade1 | I have /mode +m almost down to a reflex when a bot joins ;) |
| 03:54.51 | maquis | currently, they list off failed ssh attempts |
| 03:55.26 | maquis | herlo: it's like the beached whale |
| 03:55.35 | herlo | lol |
| 03:55.51 | ScytheBlade1 | tensai, seeing anything that would work here? I mean, it has to work *somehow*... I just can't see that somehow |
| 03:56.00 | maquis | i see that some people tried a whole bunch of accounts, and apparently failed... but i'd like to know if they succeeded on anything |
| 03:56.16 | herlo | maquis: if you get successful attempts from logwatch then you wouldn't know about problems with your system |
| 03:56.18 | maquis | oh... wait... there's something similar here |
| 03:56.30 | vontrapp | ScytheBlade1: getting 2.1 --> 0.0/24 again would be easy enough |
| 03:56.36 | tensai | ScytheBlade1: you certainly didn't start small. you went for the whole kahuna first off. |
| 03:56.36 | herlo | maquis: oh, I see what yo umean |
| 03:56.38 | vontrapp | we just need to get 1.1 --> 2.1 |
| 03:56.41 | maquis | herlo: yeah i would.... if someone succeeds in logging in as apache or daemon or games or something |
| 03:56.44 | maquis | i'd like to know about that |
| 03:56.50 | ScytheBlade1 | tensai, lol, what do you mean? |
| 03:56.52 | herlo | maquis: agreed, makes sense |
| 03:56.57 | maquis | :) |
| 03:57.01 | maquis | and they're apparently trying |
| 03:57.13 | tensai | ScytheBlade1: lots of interfaces and routes. it's taking me a bit to filter it all through |
| 03:57.17 | maquis | it looks like there's something saying users that logged in through sshd, though... it's just down near the bottom |
| 03:57.35 | herlo | maquis: but how are you going to know if it was successful if its a valid account. You should consider improving your authentication management. Is this on BSD or linux? |
| 03:57.38 | ScytheBlade1 | vontrapp, I'll be dead honest right now. I don't care the least that 2.1 --> 0.0/24. The ONLY thing that matters is that 10.0.0.52 can talk to 10.0.2.201:9100 |
| 03:57.45 | *** join/#utah mheath[laptop] (n=mheath@c-67-182-231-23.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 03:57.50 | maquis | herlo: this is on centos |
| 03:57.56 | ScytheBlade1 | tensai, a lot of those are default routes related to the internet T1 lines we have, and can be safely ignored |
| 03:57.58 | tensai | ScytheBlade1: I think you'll need on 1.1, ip route add 10.0.2.0/24 via 10.254.253.2 |
| 03:57.59 | maquis | and it lists names and what IP / hostname they came from |
| 03:58.04 | maquis | which is nice |
| 03:58.11 | mheath[laptop] | Beautiful. That was well worth the money. |
| 03:58.31 | vontrapp | tensai: we tried that, but maybe from a clean slate it will work better |
| 03:58.34 | tensai | ScytheBlade1: first thing is to get 1.1 and 2.1 to talk back and forth. then we're on the home stretch |
| 03:58.36 | mheath[laptop] | A Windows XP system _without_ Internet Explorer, Windows Media Player, or any other unneeded cruft. |
| 03:58.42 | herlo | ah, so make use of pam_cracklib |
| 03:58.50 | ScytheBlade1 | tensai, nope. Nothing coming into 2.1 over tun0 (tcpdump -i tun0) |
| 03:59.16 | tensai | ScytheBlade1: you can ping 10.254.253.2 from 1.1? |
| 03:59.25 | maquis | what kind of username is sclav? they have some crazy attempted names here |
| 03:59.33 | ScytheBlade1 | tensai, on 2.1, ip route get 10.0.1.1: 10.0.1.1 via 10.254.253.5 dev tun0 src 10.254.253.6 |
| 03:59.36 | herlo | maquis: with pam_cracklib you can limit the amount of login attempts before it shuts down the account for good... |
| 03:59.45 | maquis | Failed password for invalid user creditcard |
| 03:59.46 | ScytheBlade1 | tensai, no |
| 03:59.49 | herlo | or at least until you unlock it |
| 03:59.53 | ScytheBlade1 | maquis, those would be SSH bots :) |
| 04:00.04 | maquis | herlo: or i can use tensai's which blocks the IP address of the attacker |
| 04:00.15 | maquis | Failed password for invalid user cellphone |
| 04:00.20 | tensai | maquis: guaranteed or double your money back |
| 04:00.21 | herlo | maquis: but then you have to know the ip address of every attacker |
| 04:00.22 | vontrapp | ScytheBlade1: i think you could ping 10.254.253.6 from 1.1, right? |
| 04:00.36 | *** part/#utah marlowe (n=marlow@c-67-172-240-101.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 04:00.37 | herlo | not that both aren't valid protection |
| 04:00.44 | maquis | herlo: it just waits for 5 failed attempts, and blackholes them |
| 04:00.48 | ScytheBlade1 | vontrapp, yup |
| 04:01.09 | herlo | maquis: ahh, so its cooler than pam_cracklib is it, herlo wants a look at this cool tool |
| 04:01.17 | tensai | ScytheBlade1: ok, I can't ping my tun0 peer either |
| 04:01.35 | vontrapp | what does peer mean anyway? |
| 04:01.42 | maquis | herlo: it's tensai's... he has a link someplace to it |
| 04:01.45 | mheath[laptop] | Anyone stuck on Windows, I _highly_ recommend XPLite. |
| 04:01.51 | mheath[laptop] | My system is running like a dream now. |
| 04:02.00 | herlo | mheath[laptop]: I'd rather reinstall |
| 04:02.05 | tensai | sorry, wasn't paying attention |
| 04:02.08 | mheath[laptop] | herlo, what do you mean? |
| 04:02.10 | herlo | maquis: thanx I'll ask him |
| 04:02.16 | tensai | herlo: http://www.zmonkey.org/~tensai/ssh-lockout/ |
| 04:02.18 | brac | [Index of /~tensai/ssh-lockout] |
| 04:02.29 | tensai | new version Real Soon Now(tm) |
| 04:02.35 | herlo | mheath[laptop]: I'd rather not have XP on my box no matter the weight |
| 04:02.43 | tensai | or maybe When I Finally Get Around To It(tm) |
| 04:03.05 | mheath[laptop] | herlo, unfortunately, in many circumstances complete conversion to Linux isn't possible :) |
| 04:03.18 | herlo | mheath[laptop]: its the only possibility |
| 04:04.44 | herlo | tensai: you could easily turn that into a pam module. It would be awesome! |
| 04:04.56 | tensai | ScytheBlade1: my route still should work. that's what I've got on my openvpn link. |
| 04:05.03 | mheath[laptop] | herlo, OK, I'll install Windows on this laptop that I'm letting my sister use while I'm gone, with the wireless and audio that doesn't work in Linux, so she can have fun figuring out why the $10 value software CD-ROM that has the install instructions "insert into a drive, and click 'install' or go to start, run and type D:/setup.exe" doesn't work. |
| 04:05.10 | mheath[laptop] | Or, better yet! |
| 04:05.25 | mheath[laptop] | I'll pay $1200 so I can get a laptop specially certified to work with Linux |
| 04:05.32 | maquis | the list was down? |
| 04:05.35 | maquis | (plug)? |
| 04:05.38 | ScytheBlade1 | tensai, refer to PM |
| 04:05.43 | herlo | mheath[laptop]: its not that hard...run ubuntu on it and 99% of the stuff works... |
| 04:05.51 | herlo | out of the box |
| 04:05.56 | herlo | including wireless |
| 04:06.25 | ScytheBlade1 | iirc, mheath[laptop]'s problem involves wifi drivers forcing usage of ndiswrapper. |
| 04:06.34 | ScytheBlade1 | Which definitely will not work out of the box on any distro. |
| 04:06.47 | herlo | I have a machine that is basically brand spanking new (Thinkpad T60p) and I haven't had any issues... |
| 04:06.51 | vontrapp | but now there's bcm43xx |
| 04:06.58 | herlo | ScytheBlade1: so its an older lappy is it |
| 04:07.05 | mheath[laptop] | ScytheBlade1, ndiswrapper causes my wireless to work in a very poor manner, with horrible bandwidth and a connection that drops every 10 seconds! |
| 04:07.09 | ScytheBlade1 | herlo, ask him ;) |
| 04:07.11 | maquis | herlo: that's a thinkpad :) |
| 04:07.22 | ScytheBlade1 | mheath[laptop], that's about right. After all, it's a windows driver running under linux. |
| 04:07.28 | maquis | herlo: is it one of the nice black ones? or is it one of the weird new non-black ones/ |
| 04:07.29 | herlo | maquis: but it didnt work out of the box in fc5 only in ubuntu |
| 04:07.34 | maquis | herlo: weird |
| 04:07.35 | herlo | maquis: nice black one |
| 04:07.37 | mheath[laptop] | ScytheBlade1, it works perfectly under Windows. |
| 04:07.38 | maquis | good |
| 04:07.45 | maquis | the other ones don't look like thinkpads to me :) |
| 04:07.49 | ScytheBlade1 | mheath[laptop], that's because windows isn't linux :) |
| 04:07.58 | vontrapp | mheath[laptop]: kernels >= 2.6.16 have driver support now for broadcom chips |
| 04:08.02 | vontrapp | the bcm43xx driver |
| 04:08.08 | mheath[laptop] | vontrapp, same results. |
| 04:08.08 | herlo | maquis: I had to hunt down the rpms and they weren't around for a couple weeks |
| 04:08.10 | vontrapp | it's a step up from ndiswrapper |
| 04:08.11 | maquis | herlo: mine pretty much worked out of the box (had to download firmware) in most of the distros i've tried |
| 04:08.19 | maquis | herlo: which wireless card? |
| 04:08.25 | herlo | maquis: ipw3945 |
| 04:08.29 | maquis | ah |
| 04:08.36 | maquis | mine's the 2915 |
| 04:08.39 | mheath[laptop] | vontrapp, the new 'kernel driver' relies heavily on firmware drivers that need to be extracted from the exact same drivers you'd use with ndiswrapper. |
| 04:08.40 | herlo | which it also has that crappy userspace daemon |
| 04:08.53 | herlo | mheath[laptop]: does it matter if it works? |
| 04:09.09 | mheath[laptop] | vontrapp, meaning, the exact same problems arise. |
| 04:09.22 | *** join/#utah levi_home (n=levi@levi.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 04:09.46 | vontrapp | i haven't had them as frequent |
| 04:10.00 | vontrapp | i still have my moments when wireless fallout drives me up the wall |
| 04:10.06 | vontrapp | but it's a lot less frequent now |
| 04:10.07 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm personally a fan of *buying a new wifi card that works* |
| 04:10.09 | ScytheBlade1 | Tada! |
| 04:10.18 | vontrapp | -lart ScytheBlade1 |
| 04:10.28 | vontrapp | there! get wireless in that! |
| 04:10.32 | vontrapp | :-P |
| 04:10.38 | herlo | mheath[laptop]: I will admit that giving this to your sister might be a valid use of a temporary install of WinXP, but its because I want all people in the world to be happy that I have long vowed to fight against the Evil Empire for something that will make all people live in a wonderful electronic euphoria |
| 04:10.40 | ScytheBlade1 | Too bad my routing problem isn't as easy to fix as that one :) |
| 04:12.07 | mheath[laptop] | herlo, I use the software that works best for me. I used to like to tinker and play around with my 3 or 4 computers, running GNU/Linux and the latest cutting edge software |
| 04:12.20 | herlo | tensai: for ssh-lockout, why exactly do you need the make script? I thought it would do something amazing. I guess I can see the simplicity in it, but adding it for most oses would work with the debian target |
| 04:12.22 | mheath[laptop] | I do NOT use free software for the sake of using free software. |
| 04:12.39 | herlo | mheath[laptop]: I don't run the latest cutting edge, I use what works |
| 04:13.28 | herlo | mheath[laptop]: If I didn't have a job that required I learn (though I love that aspect) I probably would just stick with some older version of linux and be happy. that's what I did a lot of the time previously because it worked |
| 04:14.15 | herlo | tensai: looking further at the Makefile, the *doc* target seems pretty useful and I bet I could get a good bit of info from that |
| 04:14.18 | tensai | herlo: it checks for the perl modules and pukes if they're not installed, which is a plus. makes it a one command install rather than having to cp stuff around |
| 04:15.13 | herlo | tensai: ah, I missed the all target next to the os specific targets |
| 04:15.43 | mheath[laptop] | I absolutely hate when I read some person trying to justify inferior free software, simply for the sake of free software. |
| 04:15.45 | tensai | herlo: it's nothing amazing but it's useful |
| 04:15.53 | herlo | tensai: its actually a great idea |
| 04:16.48 | herlo | tensai: I think if you added a target for fc and redhat, it would be identical. I can test it, but first I'll need to check to see if the perl modules are installed... |
| 04:17.41 | tensai | herlo: patches welcome. I still have one sitting in my inbox, can't recall what it does. |
| 04:17.46 | *** join/#utah graphyx (n=mkling@24.144.57.71) |
| 04:17.55 | tensai | just gotta get around to merging and releasing 0.4.3 |
| 04:18.07 | tensai | problem is 0.4.2 works fine for me, so I haven't bothered |
| 04:18.24 | levi_home | mheath[laptop]: Most free software started out pretty inferior, and only improved because people wanted to use it because it was free. |
| 04:18.36 | herlo | tensai: you should research how it would integrate with pam as it really looks like something that could be completely integrated. Flexibility could be built in and it could become even more awesome! |
| 04:18.51 | tensai | levi_home: oh, no. kde 1.0 was the pinnacle of features and usability |
| 04:19.13 | herlo | mheath[laptop]: I hope that last comment wasn't directed at me, because that is not the case with me |
| 04:19.34 | elg | and then literally seconds later I discover that there's a movie coming out about the WTC and 9/11 |
| 04:19.41 | elg | eerie |
| 04:20.25 | levi_home | elg: I knew a WTC movie had to be coming soon when they did a movie about the plane that went down. |
| 04:21.14 | elg | yeah, that's no surprise |
| 04:21.23 | elg | it's just the coincidence |
| 04:21.31 | mheath[laptop] | When I code and offer a software product, my goal is to design a superior software product that will encourage interested users to switch to it because they were impressed. |
| 04:22.12 | mheath[laptop] | Not to design an inferior, far less developed product that fills a void in the free software arena, and wait for free-software-obsessed people to support it so it becomes good. |
| 04:22.44 | levi_home | mheath[laptop]: Of course the goal is not to design an inferior, less developed product. |
| 04:23.11 | rsimpkins | What a lot of projects don't realize is that first you must build it before they will come. :) |
| 04:23.22 | levi_home | mheath[laptop]: If everyone waited for their free software projects to be superior before releasing them, there wouldn't be any. |
| 04:23.25 | rsimpkins | It's like one of the basic rules. |
| 04:24.59 | rsimpkins | I think there are two movments. People who code because they believe in "Freedom" and people who code cause they believe in "free". What you get is a whole lotta grey. |
| 04:26.01 | levi_home | I think it's important to start with at least a vision of a superior design, but it's far more likely to be successful if you release it when it's merely adequate with a potential for greatness. |
| 04:27.21 | rsimpkins | levi_home: In my experience programmers get excited about an idea and release too early. It ends up leading to frustration for both user and programmer I think. |
| 04:29.52 | herlo | yum can be such a pain! |
| 04:30.30 | levi_home | rsimpkins: If the software is not adequate for its intended use, then it is too early. |
| 04:31.26 | rsimpkins | I wonder if one of the reasons why is that a programmer, working on a 'free' project, solves they 'cool' problems up front and leaves all the really important bits to someone else. |
| 04:31.40 | ScytheBlade1 | bbs all |
| 04:31.49 | rsimpkins | The really important, boring, tedious bits. |
| 04:32.28 | mheath[laptop] | But what I'm told is that I should support free software out of principal, on the theory that it will improve and top what is in some cases vastly superior commercial software. |
| 04:33.11 | rsimpkins | There is that movement. I wouldn't go as far out to call it dead wrong, but I do think it's misguided. |
| 04:33.19 | mheath[laptop] | This philosophy is applied to other areas as well: GNU enthusiasts will tell me to suppor the GNU Hurd, on the theory that it will improve and top what is in some cases a very superior kernel. |
| 04:34.05 | herlo | my fedora-core.repo, fedora-updates.repo and my fedora-extras.repo files all had the baseurl directive commented out. I did nothing of the sort |
| 04:34.30 | herlo | and the mirrorlist should've worked though |
| 04:36.55 | mheath[laptop] | Time for sleep. |
| 04:37.04 | mheath[laptop] | I have to get up at 5, yet agai, and work a double shift tomorrow |
| 04:42.03 | herlo | ahh, that sucks, no BSG until October! |
| 04:53.59 | herlo | ~seen Kuyaedz |
| 04:54.01 | ibot | kuyaedz <n=Kuyaedz@kuyaedz.fttp.xmission.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #ubuntu-utah, 12h 4m 24s ago, saying: '..still waiting on mine'. |
| 05:38.41 | mdirc | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:41.01 | mdirc | Ubuntu - OpenSSH 4.2p1 installed using synaptic - sshd_config in ubuntu doesn't allow the PermitTunnel, and ssh_config doesn't allow Tunnel option. I need tunneling how do I enable it? TIA |
| 05:54.05 | *** join/#utah synic (n=squish@pdpc/supporter/student/synic) |
| 05:57.55 | *** part/#utah thaabit (n=thaabit@65-100-217-102.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 06:11.14 | findlay | is there a way to expand a tmpfs filesystem without unmounting it? |
| 06:12.30 | findlay | I think I get it now |
| 06:12.47 | findlay | I'm +findlay because somebody wants me to think positive |
| 06:13.38 | findlay | the channel demigod I would venture to guess |
| 06:21.13 | Tene | exactly! |
| 06:29.54 | findlay | s/my/his/;/it's/its/ |
| 07:33.39 | bonez41 | findlay, know much about print set up.....I had a laserjet iiip printing jobs...but switching to a deskjet 550c and now the print jobs come out, at least for the test, wtih about 3/4" on the Next Page....? |
| 08:21.41 | findlay | bonez41: that's weird |
| 09:35.55 | Sargun | hey |
| 09:49.03 | Sargun | or not. |
| 12:22.48 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch@66.239.25.67.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 12:39.13 | goozbach | ~chav Tene |
| 12:43.38 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch@66.239.25.67.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 12:47.21 | *** join/#utah mhatch (n=mhatch@66.239.25.67.ptr.us.xo.net) |
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| 13:37.32 | *** join/#utah RyanE (i=Piadas@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
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| 14:04.59 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 14:05.09 | elg | ~seen dilvie |
| 14:05.24 | ibot | dilvie <n=dilvie@c-67-166-126-133.hsd1.ut.comcast.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #utah, 4d 2h 24m 31s ago, saying: 'who's going to the bbq tonight?'. |
| 14:05.45 | nick125_lappy | anyone here know hwo long freenode caches rdns? |
| 14:10.57 | *** join/#utah nick125_ (n=nick@core-0-1.noc.atarack.com) |
| 14:25.20 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch@66.239.25.67.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 14:26.16 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@64.72.210.10) |
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| 14:53.00 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp29.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 15:01.03 | goozbach | OMG http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lounge_Against_The_Machine |
| 15:01.09 | goozbach | wow |
| 15:01.13 | goozbach | that's just cool |
| 15:01.23 | redbeard1 | richard cheese? |
| 15:01.27 | redbeard1 | he scares me |
| 15:02.33 | redbeard1 | have you ever actually heard him? |
| 15:02.55 | goozbach | no, but the Idea is pretty cool |
| 15:03.02 | goozbach | why he scare you? |
| 15:03.18 | redbeard1 | it's funny at first, but the more you listen, the more disturbing it gets |
| 15:04.15 | goozbach | I think I'll REally like it then |
| 15:05.30 | redbeard1 | there's a song by suicidal tendencies called institutionlized that is covered by another lounge act. when you listen to the original, it's just another punk song. but when you hear the lounge version, you can actually pick up the lyrics |
| 15:07.22 | elg | -lart redbeard1 |
| 15:07.38 | redbeard1 | hey! what was that for? |
| 15:09.56 | *** join/#utah beandog (n=sdibb@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 15:11.11 | elg | fun |
| 15:11.40 | redbeard1 | ah. well then. |
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| 15:22.05 | *** join/#utah spr (n=spr@otherlab.cs.byu.edu) |
| 15:22.12 | elg | -lart spr |
| 15:22.28 | redbeard1 | they offer those? |
| 15:23.22 | elg | limited edition |
| 15:26.01 | nick125_ | let's just sign up everyone in the channel |
| 15:26.04 | nick125_ | except me |
| 15:26.59 | elg | ~bonk nick125_ |
| 15:27.02 | ibot | ACTION bonks nick125_ over the head |
| 15:27.12 | elg | nick125_ obviously didn't need lessons |
| 15:27.54 | nick125_ | lol |
| 15:28.00 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@enterprise.abswa.com) |
| 15:28.05 | elg | -lart sjansen |
| 15:30.06 | spr | ~lart elg |
| 15:30.36 | emcnabb | ~lart everyone |
| 15:30.50 | redbeard1 | ~bonk emcnabb |
| 15:30.56 | ibot | ACTION bonks emcnabb over the head |
| 15:31.00 | sjansen | ~eat redbeard1 |
| 15:31.02 | ibot | ACTION eats redbeard1 and falls over dead |
| 15:31.02 | elg | ~stooge emcnabb |
| 15:31.05 | emcnabb | ~slay redbeard1 |
| 15:31.06 | ibot | ACTION brandishes Excalibur! "With this sword, I vanquish thee, redbeard1!" apt lops off redbeard1's head. |
| 15:31.11 | sjansen | ~fart elg |
| 15:31.12 | ibot | ACTION farts in elg's general direction |
| 15:31.13 | emcnabb | ~slaughter elg |
| 15:31.14 | redbeard1 | this is a violent room this morning |
| 15:31.22 | emcnabb | ~die redbeard1 |
| 15:31.23 | ibot | ACTION takes two shots to the head, murders redbeard1 then crumples to the ground, lifeless... |
| 15:31.24 | elg | ha. ibot's too far away |
| 15:31.25 | sjansen | ~kiss emcnabb |
| 15:31.27 | ibot | ACTION smooches emcnabb on the lips |
| 15:31.27 | emcnabb | no it's not |
| 15:31.27 | redbeard1 | ~dog sjansen |
| 15:31.28 | ibot | ACTION stares at sjansen until sjansen whimpers and pees all over himself. |
| 15:33.48 | redbeard1 | ~mock sjansen |
| 15:33.49 | ibot | ACTION pulls sjansen's pants down and shows the world sjansen's pink spotted underwear |
| 15:34.20 | *** join/#utah macnewbold (n=mac@69.2.248.251) |
| 15:34.23 | sjansen | Hey! It's not my fault I haven't had a chance to do laundry yet... They were a Christmas present from my mother. |
| 15:34.32 | redbeard1 | macnewbold: be careful. violent room today. |
| 15:35.00 | elg | ~duck macnewbold |
| 15:35.01 | ibot | ACTION gives macnewbold a fuzzy, ugly little duckling, which immediately grows into a full sized swan and pummels macnewbold with it's big white wings. |
| 15:35.12 | sjansen | ~lick macnewbold |
| 15:35.14 | ibot | ACTION licks macnewbold *SHLUUURRRRPPP* |
| 15:35.19 | macnewbold | ~clue sjansen |
| 15:35.20 | ibot | ACTION fans out Vegas-style a stack of clues for sjansen "Pick one, any one! ...and don't show it to me." |
| 15:35.26 | macnewbold | ~cluebat elg |
| 15:35.27 | ibot | ACTION pulls out a ClueBat (tm) and thwaps elg. |
| 15:35.34 | macnewbold | ~rlart |
| 15:35.44 | sjansen | ~whaleslap Jayce^ |
| 15:35.45 | ibot | ACTION beats Jayce^ upside and over the head with a freakishly huge killer whale named Hugh |
| 15:36.02 | redbeard1 | so, i was just telling elg about one of the best hits i've gotten so far on my blog |
| 15:36.04 | redbeard1 | somebody found my blog searching for "homemade recipe for hair conditioner using aroma oil and xanthan gum for shiny hair" |
| 15:36.11 | macnewbold | no way |
| 15:36.22 | redbeard1 | i'm impressed |
| 15:36.50 | sjansen | ~wash redbeard1 |
| 15:37.05 | sjansen | ~shampoo redbeard1 |
| 15:37.26 | sjansen | ~shine redbeard1 |
| 15:37.33 | sjansen | Stupid bot. |
| 15:37.38 | redbeard1 | ~laugh at sjansen |
| 15:37.39 | ibot | HAHAHA! AH-HAHA! sjansen just cracks me up! |
| 15:39.24 | macnewbold | redbeard1: how many of those words actually appear in your blog? |
| 15:39.29 | macnewbold | and in what contexts? |
| 15:39.34 | redbeard1 | macnewbold: good question |
| 15:39.36 | macnewbold | that's just bizarre |
| 15:39.43 | macnewbold | do you talk about xanthan gum? |
| 15:39.59 | redbeard1 | well, they hit an archive page... and i did talk about xanthan gum that month.. |
| 15:41.25 | redbeard1 | wow... the only word in that sentence that doesn't appear on that page is conditioner |
| 15:42.01 | redbeard1 | looks like i'm the 5th search result in google for that search phrase |
| 15:44.20 | redbeard1 | other interesting results from that search: "The beer mousse was made a little differently by using methylcellulose and xanthan gum and whipping it into the beer using an industrial Kitchen-Aid." |
| 15:44.31 | tensai | redbeard1: http://www.crazy-for-cheesecake.com/ |
| 15:44.54 | tensai | ScytheBlade1: sorry, I wasn't able to come up with anything further |
| 15:45.38 | ScytheBlade1 | tensai, that's fine |
| 15:45.40 | ScytheBlade1 | Thanks anyways :) |
| 15:47.12 | ScytheBlade1 | tensai, one question - do you manage your routing tables by hand, or use something else? |
| 15:47.31 | tensai | ScytheBlade1: yes |
| 15:47.53 | *** join/#utah mheath[laptop] (n=mheath@c-67-182-231-23.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 15:47.55 | ScytheBlade1 | yes to which question? ;) |
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| 15:47.58 | tensai | ScytheBlade1: we do some manual routing and we also use EIGRP on our Ciscos for automatic route redistribution |
| 15:48.18 | ScytheBlade1 | 'k |
| 15:48.25 | ScytheBlade1 | I may be looking into buying cisco soon :( |
| 15:49.07 | tensai | I think your problem is really with the openvpn link |
| 15:49.19 | ScytheBlade1 | It is |
| 15:49.25 | ScytheBlade1 | That's unrelated to this problem |
| 15:50.27 | tensai | your linux boxes could use RIP or BGP or OSPF for automagic routing |
| 15:52.04 | ScytheBlade1 | know of any good HOWTOs? |
| 15:52.56 | tensai | ScytheBlade1: no. :( as I said, we use EIGRP and even at that I didn't set it up. |
| 15:53.11 | ScytheBlade1 | ah. :( |
| 15:53.19 | tensai | I'm mostly a server guy. still trying to learn all the network stuff. |
| 15:53.52 | ScytheBlade1 | tensai, I get to do all of the above AND end-user tech support! (for a company in three locations, stretched from south sandy to north bountiful) |
| 15:54.28 | macnewbold | end users as in employees, or end users as in customers/clients? |
| 15:54.48 | ScytheBlade1 | Both, depending |
| 15:57.21 | *** join/#utah [phoenyx] (n=tthorley@64.147.152.13) |
| 15:58.24 | ScytheBlade1 | The most maddening thing about this |
| 15:58.33 | ScytheBlade1 | Is that it's only for a temporary fix |
| 15:58.51 | ScytheBlade1 | It's all being replaced in two weeks with a point to point T1 |
| 16:01.12 | *** join/#utah vex_ (i=nwood@stutter.prohosting.com) |
| 16:02.58 | tensai | I thought the industry trend was the replace T1s with VPNs, not the other way around |
| 16:03.57 | beandog | We use 56k modems to pull our data, whee! |
| 16:04.25 | redbeard1 | i blame google for my lack of productivity today |
| 16:04.42 | redbeard1 | i pulled up google, and it decided to show me a random video |
| 16:04.57 | redbeard1 | normally i ignore those, but this one was titled "Man skydives with turbine engines strapped to his feet." |
| 16:05.27 | redbeard1 | http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5417019303200331106&sourceid=searchfeed |
| 16:06.35 | *** join/#utah bzob (n=bzobrist@nat.myfamilyinc.com) |
| 16:06.37 | beandog | hmm, it kind of helps if you pipe output of bg to /dev/null |
| 16:06.41 | beandog | whoopsie. |
| 16:10.13 | elg | wow |
| 16:10.45 | *** join/#utah mheath (n=mheath@c-67-182-231-23.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 16:11.24 | mheath | Wow, all kinds of fun connection problems today. |
| 16:11.34 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 16:18.49 | levi | Good morning. |
| 16:19.13 | mheath | Lets try this again. I think that suspend might have clogged up my wireless driver |
| 16:19.14 | redbeard1 | good morning |
| 16:19.22 | mheath | I usually don't ever use suspend....brb |
| 16:19.45 | levi | Heh, anyone else get a privmsg from ruLLLLERZ? |
| 16:20.56 | *** join/#utah elg_ (n=fugalh@hfugal.NMSU.Edu) |
| 16:22.28 | redbeard1 | levi: nope. script kiddie? |
| 16:23.07 | levi | Yeah, telling me that d00ms d4y h4ACKERS ARE BACK ! |
| 16:23.22 | levi | It was a recruiting message. |
| 16:23.54 | redbeard1 | d00d! u r 1337 h4x0r n0\/\/!!! |
| 16:24.03 | *** join/#utah mheath (n=mheath@c-67-182-231-23.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 16:24.13 | mheath | Better. |
| 16:24.17 | redbeard1 | wb |
| 16:24.23 | mheath | Thanks, redbeard1 |
| 16:24.42 | levi | redbeard1: Ph33r m3!!1 |
| 16:24.45 | tensai | levi: nick was registered 2 hours ago, last seen from a tor node. doesn't sound good. |
| 16:25.17 | redbeard1 | nice. it's like a little baby h4x0r |
| 16:25.33 | levi | Well, of course it's not good. It's a script kiddie trying to recruit new script kiddies. |
| 16:25.37 | levi | I guess this is how they reproduce. |
| 16:25.42 | redbeard1 | eww |
| 16:26.00 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 16:26.00 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 16:39.13 | mheath | levi/tensai: Who are you discussing? Not another one of my script-kiddie entourage? |
| 16:39.38 | levi | mheath: No, some guy who sent me a recruiting message. |
| 16:41.41 | ScytheBlade1 | tensai, the VPN this building will have is on a DSL line split between three businesses. There's next to no bandwidth for actual work, hence the P2P T1 |
| 16:42.13 | tensai | ScytheBlade1: can't get more DSLs and bond them? |
| 16:42.50 | ScytheBlade1 | tensai, even if we could, I don't want to. Just for bandwidth reasons |
| 16:43.17 | tensai | ScytheBlade1: you wouldn't at least want your own DSL line? |
| 16:43.30 | ScytheBlade1 | I don't need pissed off calls screaming at me, saying, "WHY IS THIS SO SLOW, YOU HAVE TWENTY SECONDS TO FIX IT BEFORE THIS GOES OUT THE WINDOW" because some idiot next door is torrenting |
| 16:43.51 | ScytheBlade1 | tensai, no, because the only things that actually involve the internet is web browsing, which functions fine |
| 16:44.07 | ScytheBlade1 | It's the opening of massive files that sucks |
| 16:44.33 | tensai | and the massive files are on the server at your other site |
| 16:44.40 | ScytheBlade1 | Aye |
| 16:46.28 | tensai | just checking. T1s haven't completely outlived their usefulness. |
| 16:46.49 | *** join/#utah levi_home (n=levi@levi.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 16:47.03 | ScytheBlade1 | tensai, if you have any better suggestions, I'm completly open to them |
| 16:47.20 | ScytheBlade1 | but from what I can tell, and for the price ($75/month), I don't see any better options |
| 16:47.47 | tensai | yeah, that's hard to beat |
| 16:48.26 | ScytheBlade1 | We go through Integra, and we've been with them long enough that they 1) give us their best pricing automatically and 2) waive install fees |
| 16:48.35 | ScytheBlade1 | It's _incredibly_ hard to beat |
| 16:49.00 | ScytheBlade1 | ......................... |
| 16:49.05 | ScytheBlade1 | Wow, I'm so going to injure myself |
| 16:49.19 | jsmith | maquis: Why? |
| 16:49.37 | jsmith | maquis: I mean... if you can stay in bed at 11:00 and still be online, why move? |
| 16:49.47 | ScytheBlade1 | tensai, last night when I rebooted the routers to reset the routing tables, apparently, I had upgraded the kernel in one of them pending reboot... it came back, didn't load the wanrouter modules, and likewise 0.0 <--!!!--> 1.0.... |
| 16:50.00 | maquis | jsmith: because i have a class later |
| 16:50.06 | tensai | ScytheBlade1: ouch |
| 16:50.10 | ScytheBlade1 | tensai, yeah. |
| 16:50.20 | ScytheBlade1 | That *could* explain some things ;) |
| 16:53.19 | maquis | http://networking.ittoolbox.com/r/rss.asp?url=http://blogs.ittoolbox.com/security/investigator/archives/dos-a-dell-with-your-cellphone-10803 |
| 16:53.21 | brac | [DOS A Dell With Your Cellphone] |
| 16:56.03 | *** join/#utah vex_ (n=vex@216.194.126.99) |
| 17:03.40 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 17:06.17 | *** join/#utah mrpull-m (n=mrpull@wirelessdata-031-030.mycingular.net) |
| 17:06.19 | *** join/#utah RyanE_ (i=Piadas@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 17:12.24 | maquis | asdf |
| 17:12.26 | maquis | ok |
| 17:12.27 | maquis | sorry |
| 17:12.38 | redbeard1 | apparently there is a krishna temple in spanish fork. i had no idea. |
| 17:13.48 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 17:16.43 | *** join/#utah mdirc (n=m@216.49.181.128) |
| 17:18.13 | *** join/#utah jalance_ (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 17:19.44 | *** part/#utah neybar_work (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 17:20.49 | sjansen | redbeard1: Oh yeah, that's old news. There invite the community out to participate in stuff regularily. |
| 17:22.16 | *** join/#utah Robdor (n=rob@208.187.198.179) |
| 17:22.21 | redbeard1 | feh. it's not old news to me. i'm not from SF. |
| 17:24.38 | sjansen | But you live in Utah County. |
| 17:24.57 | sjansen | They've been there for, like, forever. |
| 17:25.17 | sjansen | ~mock redbeard1 |
| 17:25.22 | ibot | ACTION pulls redbeard1's pants down and shows the world redbeard1's pink spotted underwear |
| 17:31.47 | *** join/#utah findlay (n=justin@67.137.24.115) |
| 17:32.39 | redbeard1 | so, apparently this krishna temple has a buffet |
| 17:32.43 | redbeard1 | a BUFFET! |
| 17:35.08 | sjansen | ~feed redbeard1 |
| 17:35.09 | ibot | ACTION offers redbeard1 some pizza |
| 17:36.56 | mdirc | sjansen: I have port forwarding working, and vncviewer on my xp is able to connect to ubuntu server when I am on the same lan. I think either gnome vino-vncserver or the iptables is blocking connections to WAN from X11. Am I thinking along the right lines, if so how do I fix the situation. |
| 17:41.20 | sjansen | Not sure, don't know enough about the VNC protocol. |
| 17:41.54 | sjansen | I suppose that outgoing connections being blocked could be a problem, but it seems unlikely. |
| 17:42.11 | sjansen | It would be much more normal that the problem is an incoming connection being blocked. |
| 17:42.58 | sjansen | X11 should not be involved at all. The VNC server should be running locally on the Ubuntu server talking to X11 over a local connection. |
| 17:43.43 | sjansen | SSH tunnels can only carry TCP data. A normal ssh tunnel can not forward connections to X11, hence the ssh -X option. |
| 17:44.05 | sjansen | (I should have mentioned that X11 uses UDP not TCP.) |
| 17:44.40 | sjansen | It is possible but unlikely that your VNC server is being blocked when it tries to send data out. |
| 17:45.55 | sjansen | If the SSH tunnel is working now, my gut tells me that the problem is with vncviewer. You're using the wrong settings so that it's trying to connect directly to the Ubuntu server instead of using the SSH tunnel. |
| 17:48.49 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@hfugal.NMSU.Edu) |
| 17:49.06 | *** join/#utah mrpull-m (n=mrpull@wirelessdata-031-030.mycingular.net) |
| 17:49.47 | ScytheBlade1 | .... |
| 17:49.48 | elg | -lart vontrapp |
| 17:49.50 | ScytheBlade1 | I just got a call |
| 17:49.59 | ScytheBlade1 | "I just did something really, really bad, and I need you to fix it" |
| 17:50.02 | ScytheBlade1 | "What'd you do? |
| 17:50.03 | ScytheBlade1 | " |
| 17:50.08 | ScytheBlade1 | "I deleted a file..." |
| 17:50.10 | ScytheBlade1 | "What file?" |
| 17:50.13 | ScytheBlade1 | "A very important one..." |
| 17:50.14 | maquis | uh oh |
| 17:50.25 | elg | where have i heard that one before? |
| 17:50.32 | maquis | what'd they delete? |
| 17:50.51 | elg | in my experience it's usually accounting that deletes important files |
| 17:50.53 | ScytheBlade1 | Looks like it wasn't a file |
| 17:50.57 | ScytheBlade1 | ... just a database. |
| 17:50.57 | ScytheBlade1 | .... |
| 17:51.01 | elg | maybe that's because they're the only ones with important files |
| 17:51.01 | sjansen | The entire CVS repository for her shared CS project. |
| 17:51.26 | elg | sjansen: that's why we should all be using a distributed RCS |
| 17:51.28 | elg | :) |
| 17:51.38 | ScytheBlade1 | Good crap |
| 17:51.42 | ScytheBlade1 | This is the annoying person too |
| 17:52.08 | maquis | ScytheBlade1: like... a major db? |
| 17:52.15 | ScytheBlade1 | maquis, one of them, yes |
| 17:52.20 | maquis | i suppose that's better than if they'd deleted / or something |
| 17:52.28 | ScytheBlade1 | Not really, actually |
| 17:52.31 | maquis | then they'd be missing more than just the db |
| 17:52.33 | ScytheBlade1 | That'd be click to restore a backup |
| 17:52.43 | elg | i suppose we shouldn't ask how this person has permission to delete an entire db |
| 17:52.47 | maquis | ScytheBlade1: but the db would still be gone, right? |
| 17:52.54 | ScytheBlade1 | This is "take offices offline for six hours and re-run tool to rebuild database" |
| 17:53.04 | maquis | ick |
| 17:53.16 | ScytheBlade1 | elg, they have permission to the application, and she screwed up in the application :) |
| 17:53.24 | elg | ah |
| 17:54.17 | ScytheBlade1 | The person who called, two, in the past has been INCREDIBLY rude towards me |
| 17:55.10 | maquis | ScytheBlade1: well, if she becomes incredibly rude again, you could just point out that you're trying to help resolve an error she caused, and you'd appreciate it if she took that into account in how she treats you |
| 17:55.22 | maquis | or you can do sjansen's way |
| 17:55.24 | ScytheBlade1 | "So let me get this straight: you want me to drive 20 minutes there, spend two minutes fixing a problem that we could fix over the phone, and then drive 20 minutes back because you don't have the time to do it over the phone with me?" "Yes, now come in, bye." <-- past responses |
| 17:55.55 | maquis | do you charge by hour for support like that? |
| 17:56.12 | maquis | if something takes more than a phone-call, there should be additional support costs |
| 17:56.26 | ScytheBlade1 | Family business. |
| 17:56.27 | sjansen | Is this contract work? Some customers are not worth keeping. |
| 17:56.28 | ScytheBlade1 | Dad is the boss. |
| 17:56.47 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm getting paid crap in relation to anyone else he can hire, even as a temp |
| 17:56.55 | maquis | ScytheBlade1: point out to your dad that he should charge for support |
| 17:56.56 | ScytheBlade1 | And that's pretty much THE reason I work there |
| 17:57.07 | sjansen | A rude customer that makes unreasonable commands is a drain on profit. Cut 'em loose of charge 'em through the nose as revenge. In other words, share the pain. |
| 17:57.38 | emcnabb | ~rlart |
| 17:57.46 | goozbach | ~lart � |
| 17:57.58 | emcnabb | ~rlart |
| 17:58.03 | goozbach | anyone recognise that char? |
| 17:58.06 | maquis | -lart emcnabb |
| 17:58.07 | goozbach | � |
| 17:58.11 | emcnabb | ? |
| 17:58.19 | maquis | goozbach: nope... what is it? |
| 17:58.32 | *** join/#utah ScytheBlade1 (n=Death@about/pxe/ScytheBlade1) |
| 17:58.41 | sjansen | ScytheBlade1: How old are you? |
| 17:59.03 | goozbach | I was having hope that one of you could answer it |
| 17:59.09 | goozbach | it seems to be like a cockroach |
| 17:59.13 | ScytheBlade1 | Ack. Wrong button. |
| 17:59.15 | ScytheBlade1 | sjansen, 18 |
| 17:59.17 | ScytheBlade1 | That has a lot to do with it |
| 17:59.19 | ScytheBlade1 | The person in question is at least 30 |
| 17:59.26 | goozbach | infesting my docbook documents |
| 17:59.33 | goozbach | and I cannot find out from where |
| 17:59.39 | sjansen | That means you're old enough to act like and be treated as an adult. |
| 17:59.52 | sjansen | Doesn't matter if the person is 30 or 60, they have no right to be rude. |
| 18:00.02 | mdirc | sjansen: I found the problem with my vncviewer not being able to connect to the gnome's vino-vncserver (remote desktop in Gnome) running on ubuntu. The problem is that you need to be logged into gnome for vino to be listening. If you are sitting at the gdm login screen, then vino is not enabled. This behaves exactly like the remote assistance feature on xp. So I will have to install a different vncserver so that I can connect to it when the machine is sitting on th |
| 18:00.05 | elg | ScytheBlade1: if the person holds his age over your head, then turn around and hold your expertise over his |
| 18:00.12 | sjansen | And you have no dependency on your Dad. |
| 18:00.17 | mdirc | sjansen: thanks for your help though |
| 18:00.32 | elg | "let me get this straight, you messed up and only an 18 year old can help you?" |
| 18:00.39 | sjansen | Your dad should back you up in standing up to a rude customer. If he doesn't, it's time to stand up for yourself. |
| 18:01.01 | ScytheBlade1 | elg, being rude generally doesn't help :) |
| 18:01.16 | maquis | ScytheBlade1: it might put the person in their place |
| 18:01.28 | sjansen | mdirc: Ah, good to know. I'm used the normal vncserver that always works. |
| 18:01.37 | maquis | which they deserve if they're rude to you while you're cleaning up from them deleting an important db |
| 18:02.21 | *** join/#utah ^Migs^ (n=Migs@205.122.50.69) |
| 18:02.29 | ScytheBlade1 | moment, on the phone |
| 18:02.45 | sjansen | "I feel like you do not respect me. I think that your demand is unreasonable. If you are going to continue to make this time of demand, I think it is time for us to part ways. If you would like, I can suggest another company/contractor that may be able to help you in the future." |
| 18:03.11 | ^Migs^ | that's pretty whiny, sjansen. Who said that? |
| 18:03.53 | sjansen | Obviously you need to cut a person a little slack. Some people react very badly after making a serious mistake. They lash out. Try to help the person calm down. But if they refuse to improve, cut 'em loose. |
| 18:04.15 | ScytheBlade1 | ^Migs^, it's the needed whine for the situation :) |
| 18:04.27 | sjansen | ^Migs^: Whiny? Perhaps a bit too touchy feely because I'm trying to be respectful which is unnatural for me. |
| 18:04.48 | maquis | or they're just having a bad day and are about ready to snap (a couple people here have been very helpful to me when i've been in that mood... and i appreciate them cutting me a bit of slack at those times...) |
| 18:05.08 | sjansen | Personally, I generally believe in being a straigt shooter. "No, I'm not going to do that." |
| 18:05.33 | sjansen | Most people, though, want to keep customers instead of burning bridges, so I'm suggesting a soft way of saying the same thing. |
| 18:05.36 | beandog | I just blame all my problems on wireless. |
| 18:05.50 | beandog | "Just reset your router." Then I turn off my phone. :) |
| 18:06.00 | ScytheBlade1 | I've told my dad multiple times, "If you don't want to do it this way, you can hire someone else." "Okay, fine, I will." "Okay, bye." "Oh come on, don't be this way about it." |
| 18:06.47 | ^Migs^ | oh, you're the one saying it |
| 18:07.18 | ScytheBlade1 | yeah |
| 18:07.19 | ^Migs^ | except change the word "time" with "kind" or "sort" |
| 18:14.18 | ScytheBlade1 | I've talked to my dad about her actually |
| 18:14.21 | ScytheBlade1 | She he wants her gone also |
| 18:14.44 | ScytheBlade1 | Fortunately, she works in the other building, so I don't have to deal with her too often |
| 18:15.38 | ScytheBlade1 | awww |
| 18:15.44 | ScytheBlade1 | Because I hit the wrong button and killed X, I lost my +v :( |
| 18:16.00 | jsmith | Doesn't matter -- we can still hear you. |
| 18:16.37 | *** join/#utah Tene_ (n=tene@poipu/supporter/slacker/tene) |
| 18:20.28 | sjansen | ScytheBlade1: Is she a customer or a co-worker? |
| 18:21.02 | ScytheBlade1 | co-worker |
| 18:21.13 | goozbach | ScytheBlade1: I just didn't bother de-voicing everbody |
| 18:21.15 | sjansen | Co-workers are trickier. If management isn't willing to listen, the only options are changing jobs, or subtle, unprovable sabotage. |
| 18:21.29 | goozbach | the channel went -m yesterday before lunch |
| 18:21.33 | *** join/#utah elg_ (n=fugalh@dhcp29.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 18:21.41 | ScytheBlade1 | And all this time sjansen, I thought you were an ethical guy ;) |
| 18:21.42 | goozbach | so everybody has been able to talk |
| 18:21.52 | goozbach | hmmm |
| 18:21.58 | goozbach | that does explain a lot |
| 18:22.27 | sjansen | ScytheBlade1: I've never needed to find out. I'm not sure if I'd declare war on a co-worker or not. |
| 18:22.42 | ScytheBlade1 | sjansen, she isn't worth the time or energy to do so |
| 18:23.17 | sjansen | I'd probably just switch jobs is management wasn't willing to reign in an unreasonable co-worker. |
| 18:23.18 | emcnabb | how much do you guys charge for sys admin consulting? |
| 18:23.34 | ScytheBlade1 | emcnabb, not nearly enough |
| 18:23.44 | sjansen | But if I really loved the job... |
| 18:23.52 | emcnabb | this would be taxed |
| 18:24.06 | emcnabb | so - ~40% ? |
| 18:24.18 | emcnabb | I know you get killed with taxes |
| 18:24.21 | ScytheBlade1 | sjansen, I don't love the job. It's family business :) |
| 18:24.45 | ScytheBlade1 | It's, "work here now PLEASE" |
| 18:25.27 | sjansen | The faster you stop working somewhere to be nice, the better it will be for everyone. |
| 18:25.31 | ScytheBlade1 | Unless I'm talking to this one person in specific. In that case, it's s/PLEASE// |
| 18:25.39 | sjansen | It took me a while to realize that, but eventually I did. |
| 18:26.00 | sjansen | I was hating life, I was doing a lousy job, and management thought it could get away with being stupid. |
| 18:26.20 | ScytheBlade1 | Well, in this case, managment does listen, and it helps quite a bit |
| 18:26.21 | sjansen | I needed a better environment, and management needed to find a new victim. |
| 18:26.26 | ScytheBlade1 | I just have one bad spot. |
| 18:26.48 | ScytheBlade1 | The clueless co-workers ;)( |
| 18:26.52 | ScytheBlade1 | s/(// |
| 18:26.54 | sjansen | Yeah, few places are perfect. |
| 18:27.06 | ScytheBlade1 | I had one guy pull me aside after using e-mail for two years |
| 18:27.17 | ScytheBlade1 | "Hey, what does this 'To:' thing mean?" |
| 18:27.25 | sjansen | Guru Labs comes really close, and we're hiring if you're good with Linux. |
| 18:27.31 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm good with linux |
| 18:27.33 | ScytheBlade1 | Please hire me |
| 18:27.33 | ScytheBlade1 | Now |
| 18:27.41 | ScytheBlade1 | :) |
| 18:27.43 | emcnabb | do you like to travel? |
| 18:27.49 | maquis | ScytheBlade1: if you can get better pay elsewhere, i'd consider applying, getting an offer, and then bringing it up with your dad |
| 18:27.52 | emcnabb | do you have people / presentation skills? |
| 18:27.53 | beandog | where do you guys travel to, anyway? |
| 18:28.05 | sjansen | Mostly major cities in the US. |
| 18:28.10 | maquis | if he's willing to beat that wage, take that... otherwise, it's reasonable to go find a better-paying job |
| 18:28.19 | sjansen | I've been to CA once. goozbach got to visit Spain. |
| 18:28.27 | emcnabb | when I was a GL instructor: http://evan.mcnabbs.org/aboutme/travellog.shtml |
| 18:28.30 | sjansen | s/CA/Canada/ |
| 18:28.40 | ScytheBlade1 | It's not just wage that I'm interested in. Working at a family business means little to nothing on a resume |
| 18:28.55 | ScytheBlade1 | sjansen, I am definitely interested, and less e-mail servers, I know linux |
| 18:29.01 | ScytheBlade1 | sjansen, only problem being my age |
| 18:29.34 | beandog | emcnabb: Oo |
| 18:29.43 | beandog | freek. |
| 18:30.24 | beandog | a lot to atlanta. |
| 18:31.06 | emcnabb | I requested Atlanta (inlaws live there) |
| 18:31.13 | beandog | where at? |
| 18:31.18 | emcnabb | Alpharetta |
| 18:31.22 | beandog | Ah okay |
| 18:31.25 | beandog | Do you know where Duluth is? |
| 18:31.32 | levi | The travelling at Guru Labs could be detrimental to getting a formal education. |
| 18:31.37 | emcnabb | yup, I was there on Saturday :-) |
| 18:31.44 | beandog | Thats where Im from. :) |
| 18:31.56 | maquis | the ttravelling at guru labs explains why the have a couple of vacancies open right now |
| 18:32.01 | beandog | ut > ga |
| 18:32.10 | emcnabb | I went to Fry's in Gwinnett Mall |
| 18:32.14 | beandog | What? |
| 18:32.17 | beandog | They have a frys now? |
| 18:32.21 | emcnabb | yeah, huge |
| 18:32.33 | beandog | What a bunch of punks. |
| 18:33.30 | emcnabb | when did you move away? |
| 18:33.49 | beandog | uh |
| 18:33.52 | beandog | 99 |
| 18:33.59 | beandog | er, 98 |
| 18:34.26 | emcnabb | it's growing like crazy |
| 18:34.29 | emcnabb | insane |
| 18:34.33 | beandog | yah |
| 18:34.37 | beandog | its *always* been that way. |
| 18:34.49 | beandog | pretty insanato |
| 18:35.17 | beandog | another reason I like it here ... there's actually a buffer between towns. |
| 18:35.34 | beandog | versus driving for two hours straight and never leaving the city. |
| 18:36.52 | beandog | I do miss the good weather though |
| 18:36.54 | beandog | and all the trees. |
| 18:38.04 | emcnabb | I love the tall trees of the southeast |
| 18:38.25 | emcnabb | you drive down the highway and you feel like you're in the middle of a forest |
| 18:38.42 | emcnabb | that's the way NC is too (my new home) |
| 18:39.19 | beandog | no kidding |
| 18:39.26 | beandog | have you ever been to the rennaissance festival? |
| 18:39.32 | beandog | It is right smack dab in the middle of a HUGE forest |
| 18:39.34 | beandog | its great |
| 18:41.11 | emcnabb | beandog: I haven't |
| 18:41.22 | emcnabb | ^Migs^: you do need to calm down |
| 18:41.27 | beandog | If youre ever down there when its going on, be sure to check it out. It's well worth the trip. |
| 18:41.31 | findlay | ~calm down |
| 18:41.39 | ibot | ACTION sooths down, offers a backrub, tea, a jacuzzi and anything else that might help calm down down. |
| 18:43.56 | maquis | ~calm maquis |
| 18:43.58 | ibot | ACTION sooths maquis, offers a backrub, tea, a jacuzzi and anything else that might help calm maquis down. |
| 18:44.49 | emcnabb | ~fart findlay |
| 18:44.51 | ibot | ACTION farts in findlay's general direction |
| 18:46.20 | *** join/#utah herlo (n=herlo@65.214.148.70) |
| 18:47.37 | goozbach | ODD!!! |
| 18:47.50 | goozbach | that charater only shows up when being server via apache |
| 18:48.01 | goozbach | not when you look at the file via file:/// |
| 18:49.31 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 18:52.17 | atoponce | have utaug meets been at the new slc library? |
| 18:52.21 | jlp_work | beandog: I used to live in Duluth! of course, it was back in 1972 or so... probably changed a lot since then |
| 18:52.36 | jlp_work | I have a cousin who lives there... she works for UMN |
| 18:52.50 | beandog | 1972? |
| 18:52.51 | beandog | O.o |
| 18:52.59 | beandog | I wasnt even around, then. :) |
| 18:53.20 | jlp_work | we were only there for a year |
| 18:53.23 | beandog | heck, I didnt even live there til ... uh ... 1995 |
| 18:53.24 | emcnabb | Dinosaurs roamed the plains of Georgia |
| 18:53.43 | jsmith | atoponce: Yes. |
| 18:53.50 | jsmith | atoponce: We were there last night, in fact. |
| 18:53.51 | emcnabb | jlp_work: did you fight of T-rexes on a regular basis? ;-) |
| 18:54.04 | jlp_work | oh yes, it was one of my favorite things to do! |
| 18:54.10 | atoponce | jsmith: who is your contact for the library? |
| 18:54.26 | jsmith | atoponce: No clue, really... someone else scheduled it for us. |
| 19:05.35 | sjansen | For the first time ever, lunch is not ready on time. |
| 19:06.05 | macnewbold | where, sjansen? |
| 19:06.14 | sjansen | Perfect timing, too. I'm already fighting to stay on schedule, and for some reason I'm hungrier than usual. |
| 19:06.49 | sjansen | We're talking, light headed with a head ache coming on hunger. |
| 19:07.14 | sjansen | macnewbold: Seattle training center. |
| 19:07.24 | macnewbold | ah |
| 19:07.31 | maquis | sjansen: where in seattle is it? |
| 19:08.31 | sjansen | Bellevue area. Off 520 or 502 or something like that. |
| 19:08.51 | maquis | 520 |
| 19:08.55 | maquis | :) |
| 19:09.19 | findlay | are there any dinosouars there? |
| 19:09.22 | maquis | sjansen: just a random place there? are you there for a company? etc |
| 19:09.33 | maquis | findlay: we get occasional pterosaurs, but other than that, nah |
| 19:09.47 | findlay | do they still roam free? |
| 19:09.51 | maquis | yeah |
| 19:09.59 | maquis | the pterodactyls are pretty friendly |
| 19:10.28 | findlay | dactyls? |
| 19:10.39 | findlay | that's a three syllable foot |
| 19:10.48 | findlay | commonly used in Greek epics |
| 19:10.52 | maquis | huh? |
| 19:11.59 | findlay | ~wiki Dactyl (poetry) |
| 19:12.15 | maquis | ~wiki pterodactyl |
| 19:14.40 | redbeard1 | so basically... a pterodactyl is another word for a flying finger |
| 19:14.58 | redbeard1 | right? |
| 19:15.56 | atoponce | apparently. question is, which finger? |
| 19:16.30 | sjansen | This must be the universe balancing itself. Yesterday was more delicious curry than I could eat. Today is one small burrito delivered late. |
| 19:16.45 | redbeard1 | sjansen: that's tragic |
| 19:16.55 | amcnabb | That's better than a microwave burrito. |
| 19:16.58 | sjansen | levi: You're right, working for Guru Labs and getting a degree is basically impossible. |
| 19:17.26 | sjansen | Not everyone wants or needs a degree, however, and if ScytheBlade1 has the skills Guru Labs would be a great place to start. |
| 19:18.13 | sjansen | To a certain degree, some employers will accept certification in place of a degree. |
| 19:18.40 | findlay | so what does that make finger food? |
| 19:18.46 | Jayce^ | redbeard1, so that's where the terms "giving the bird" and "giving the finger" correlate |
| 19:18.55 | sjansen | And working for Guru Labs is a whole lot more than a cheap way to get certification. |
| 19:19.14 | amcnabb | I love the Register. This is their headline: "Microsoft lights upgrade path to Windows Vista: Business users to stay away in droves" |
| 19:19.44 | levi | I would say that anyone who has the motivation and discipline to get a degree right after high school should do so. It's a personally enriching experience, and despite what people say regarding the relative importance of degrees vs. experience, it is pretty important to your career to get a degree. |
| 19:20.10 | Sargun | are there any tools for prettying up xml? |
| 19:20.25 | sjansen | The travel is one important reason we're having a hard time hiring. The other reason is it's just plain hard to find people with l33t Linux skillz and enough social skills to teach. |
| 19:20.52 | Jayce^ | so hard that they had to settle on sjansen |
| 19:21.03 | sjansen | Exactly. |
| 19:21.11 | sjansen | Hey, wait... |
| 19:21.15 | macnewbold | Sargun: an html-tidy app might apply to XML pretty well, YMMV |
| 19:21.18 | levi | It's just plain hard to find people with good hardware/software engineering skills in Utah. |
| 19:21.26 | Sargun | hm |
| 19:21.28 | Sargun | I'll try it |
| 19:22.38 | sjansen | levi: I agree. Not everyone, however, is cut out to get a degree. And some who are simply don't want to. Play your cards right and things can still turn out well. |
| 19:23.19 | findlay | how will playing cards help? |
| 19:23.41 | findlay | ~cards |
| 19:23.48 | ibot | cards is probably http://zaurus.knightfire.com/ |
| 19:23.49 | maquis | -lart findlay |
| 19:23.53 | levi | sjansen: My brother decided not to get a degree. He makes pretty decent money, but he's a slave to his job because he fears he won't be able to get another job without a degree, and fears getting a degree because he'll lose his income. |
| 19:24.28 | levi | He doesn't have time to do them concurrently because his job takes advantage of him. |
| 19:25.55 | levi | Granted, he'd probably be able to get out of his situation if he had a bit more self-confidence and some stomach for risk, but it could have been avoided altogether. |
| 19:27.25 | sjansen | One of my students is 22. He's just finished 4 years in the air force as a network admin in Okinawa helping to administer thousands of machines. He's just been offered a $165,000 contract. |
| 19:28.09 | sjansen | No, that isn't common. Most people don't have the skills he does. But you don't have to get a degree to get a good job. |
| 19:28.25 | neybar | I'm testing a hilight setting. Can someone type "neybar_work"? |
| 19:28.49 | sjansen | In fact, most people making major amounts of money and doing very fulfilling jobs are the ones with the guts to take a different path and the discipline to work hard. |
| 19:29.07 | redbeard1 | neybar_work |
| 19:29.12 | neybar | thanks |
| 19:29.16 | sjansen | neybar_work, neybar_work, doing the things a neybar_work can |
| 19:29.16 | redbeard1 | np |
| 19:29.43 | goozbach | look at me, I didn't go to college and I'm kick-A |
| 19:30.22 | redbeard1 | i have a 2-yr degree, but it has nothing to do with my current employment |
| 19:31.28 | elg_ | i have 27 degrees here |
| 19:31.35 | elg_ | three more than you folks |
| 19:32.02 | redbeard1 | ~lart elg |
| 19:32.10 | elg | good riddance |
| 19:32.34 | goozbach | the ONLY reason I'd even consider getting a degree would be to get a PhD and to teach on the university level |
| 19:32.40 | Jayce^ | harleypig was part of 98 degrees, does that count? |
| 19:33.07 | maquis | goozbach: wasn't it not too long ago that you were plannig on going back to school to get your degree? |
| 19:33.48 | elg | goozbach: join the club. we can take over harvard |
| 19:34.18 | goozbach | elg: you've got a leg up on me though |
| 19:34.35 | goozbach | I've only got 3/4 of a single semester under my belt |
| 19:34.35 | harleypig | ? |
| 19:34.40 | harleypig | what's 98 degrees? |
| 19:34.46 | elg | harleypig: your boy band |
| 19:34.49 | elg | don't you remember? |
| 19:34.59 | harleypig | err . |
| 19:35.35 | sjansen | maquis: That was before he started making mad cash working for Florida. |
| 19:35.39 | elg | sco's stock is below where it was when this whole thing started |
| 19:35.46 | Tene_ | http://celtickane.com/projects/jsspeed.php |
| 19:35.49 | brac | [Celtic Kane Online - Javascript Speed Tests] |
| 19:35.51 | sjansen | ~quote scox |
| 19:35.54 | elg | working for florida and florida's hot chicks |
| 19:35.57 | goozbach | maquis: and I found out that consultants don't need degrees |
| 19:36.07 | goozbach | consulticks even less so |
| 19:36.14 | *** join/#utah redbeard1 (n=redbeard@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 19:36.21 | graphyx | so all those people shorting the stock may just get rid of it now. |
| 19:36.25 | graphyx | Cause its all over baby... |
| 19:36.31 | graphyx | Wonder what it will do the the stock.. make it raise? |
| 19:36.37 | redbeard1 | aww... i lost voice |
| 19:37.02 | *** mode/#utah [+o elg] by ChanServ |
| 19:37.05 | *** mode/#utah [-v emcnabb] by elg |
| 19:37.11 | maquis | goozbach: ah |
| 19:37.33 | graphyx | elg: Are you sure? looks like it was at about a buck. |
| 19:37.37 | graphyx | previously. |
| 19:37.41 | graphyx | it's at t2.28 not. |
| 19:37.54 | sjansen | The truth is, you don't need a degree for a lot of jobs. You just need skills and a willingness to manage risk. |
| 19:37.55 | elg | graphyx: nope, just parroting a /. story |
| 19:38.40 | sjansen | Getting a degree and settling into a salaried job is the boring, safe path. (Says the degree'd man in a salaried position that pays well but not mad amounts.) |
| 19:39.19 | elg | oh sorry, LWN |
| 19:39.22 | elg | which got it from the sl trib |
| 19:39.51 | elg | oh, looks like I might have misread |
| 19:39.51 | elg | http://lwn.net/Articles/193757/rss |
| 19:40.07 | elg | maybe 2.28 was what they closed at the day it all started |
| 19:40.14 | elg | so the day before they might have been considerably lower |
| 19:40.20 | goozbach | being a contractor is kinda scary |
| 19:40.29 | goozbach | "What if they don't renew?" |
| 19:40.34 | goozbach | etc |
| 19:40.49 | sjansen | Contractor have to manage their own taxes, they have to prepare for the dry spells, the usually have to assume more liability. |
| 19:41.08 | goozbach | having to find your own healtcare, manage your own taxes, and be prepared isn't too cool either |
| 19:41.11 | levi | Having a degree and a good resume is a nice way to mitigate that risk, though, as it makes it easier to switch back to regular employment at a decent salary. |
| 19:41.16 | sjansen | But they also have more controll of their time, and they can cut and run when they want. |
| 19:42.42 | sjansen | My mother is a school counselor, and one of the things she's learned is that too many people assume they need a degree. |
| 19:43.01 | goozbach | ok so She Wants Revenge is a great sounding band |
| 19:43.04 | elg | having been both a contractor sysadmin and a salaried sysadmin, I can say I'd prefer the contractor gig any day of the week |
| 19:43.10 | goozbach | intersting unique sound |
| 19:43.13 | sjansen | They go to college, do poorly, hate, then spend the rest of their lives hating their work. |
| 19:43.27 | goozbach | but they have some dementd lyrics |
| 19:43.28 | sjansen | Some would be better of going to trade school instead and doing what they enjoy. |
| 19:43.30 | elg | it does mean more risk |
| 19:43.54 | levi | elg: I didn't particularly like being a sysadmin. |
| 19:43.54 | elg | but it's worth it. in my opinion. some people would value the security more than the freedom |
| 19:44.14 | sjansen | Others are limiting themselves too much by trying to fit into a mold. Taking some chance and exploring leads to discovering a passion, becoming very skilled, and prospering. |
| 19:44.15 | macnewbold | I'd recommend the self-employment thing too - contracting is pretty cool |
| 19:44.23 | macnewbold | there are a lot of things you can do to mitigate the risk too |
| 19:44.26 | elg | levi: I mostly do, but even a contractor sysadmin is basically on-call a lot of the time, and that's what I don't like |
| 19:44.47 | Jayce^ | contracting has pro's, but I just am not the kind of person that can deal with the 'looking for new contracts' and such |
| 19:44.48 | elg | I think I probably enjoy sysadmin and teaching about the same, except for the on-call thing. hence the phd |
| 19:44.50 | macnewbold | depending on your clients/servers/etc, the on-call thing doesn't usually get in the way I've found |
| 19:45.21 | elg | i get really cranky when I'm fixing something when I'd rather be doing something else |
| 19:45.35 | levi | Yeah. |
| 19:45.40 | macnewbold | Jayce^: building the client base is the hardest part I think... I did the contracting thign part time with another part-time salaried job, until my contracting grew enough for me to drop the other |
| 19:45.43 | elg | I think that would eventually spell minor or major disaster if I were only doing sysadmin |
| 19:45.48 | elg | or put-out-fires programming |
| 19:45.58 | macnewbold | you just have to make sure that overtime is built into your contracts |
| 19:45.58 | sjansen | Sure, I have to travel. But I don't have to deal with fires and my day ends at 5pm. |
| 19:46.01 | elg | -lart Jayce^ |
| 19:46.10 | sjansen | Teaching can be fun. |
| 19:46.19 | elg | sjansen: I'd have enjoyed guru if I weren't already married |
| 19:46.22 | macnewbold | but he doesn't notice any difference, brac... |
| 19:46.31 | levi | I like the occasional fire to put out, but I like them to be infrequent. :) |
| 19:46.39 | macnewbold | or is that sjansen who wouldn't have noticed... |
| 19:46.42 | levi | And not too hot. |
| 19:46.46 | macnewbold | right |
| 19:47.01 | elg | brac: hello? |
| 19:47.01 | brac | hey elg :) |
| 19:47.12 | elg | brac: sjansen needs help |
| 19:47.21 | levi | I probably would have enjoyed Guru Labs a few years ago, when I was more into Linux userland stuff. |
| 19:48.15 | elg | i want to be a profession irc bot writer |
| 19:48.28 | elg | and spend most of the time testing its lart functionality |
| 19:51.27 | *** join/#utah RyanE (i=Piadas@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 19:51.30 | elg | ok, folks, am I an idiot or is there no easy way to get out of evim? |
| 19:52.15 | jsmith | evim... is that the "englightened" version? |
| 19:53.12 | elg | it's the point-and-click version :) |
| 19:53.28 | elg | vim -y or evim will start up vim as a more conventional editor (you stay in insert mode) |
| 19:53.38 | jsmith | interesting... |
| 19:53.42 | elg | you can get out of insert mode with ctrl-l (or ctrl-o for just one command) |
| 19:53.52 | elg | so you can do ctrl-o :wq |
| 19:54.06 | levi | Making vim even /more/ like emacs. :) |
| 19:54.07 | elg | but that kind of spoils the otherwise-excellent "easy" |
| 19:54.25 | elg | I guess if you have the gui, then you can click the save button and close the window |
| 19:54.53 | elg | lesson #1 that I learned teaching this class: don't skimp on the editor |
| 19:55.27 | Robdor | don't the ideas behind evim kind of defeat the purpose of vim? |
| 19:55.42 | levi | What do you mean by "don't skimp on the editor"? |
| 19:55.45 | elg | I gave them emacs and vim cheatsheets and told them pico was the easiest to use. If I had told them how to do emacs or (e)vim basics they would have been so much better off |
| 19:56.00 | elg | (most stuck with pico, and it's a real pain to program in pico) |
| 19:56.09 | levi | Yeah, it is. |
| 19:56.12 | jsmith | Man, this is great -- next time I want to play a trick on someone, I'll just alias evim to vim |
| 19:56.15 | elg | syntax highlighting and auot indentation would help them out a lot |
| 19:56.44 | levi | I switched a couple of coworkers from pico to vim, and they were very happy about it once they got up to speed. |
| 19:57.06 | levi | (this was before I re-learned emacs, I imagine they'd have been happy with that as well) |
| 19:58.05 | elg | I was trying to help them by not forcing vim on them. I should have known better. |
| 19:58.55 | elg | s/help them/be nice and helpful/ |
| 19:59.00 | levi | I found emacs more palatable than vi when I first started using unix. I eventually switched to jed, though, since it was much lighter than emacs. |
| 20:01.29 | macnewbold | you can change the colors in emacs too, so you can make it as light as you want |
| 20:01.36 | Robdor | I just looked at some screen shots for jed. Kind of reminds of dos' edit... |
| 20:02.34 | levi | It's got emacs keybindings, though, so it was easy to switch to. |
| 20:11.21 | beandog | any gentoo users in here |
| 20:12.00 | harleypig | AGGHHHHH!!!! WOMEN!!! |
| 20:12.12 | harleypig | Can't live with'em; can't sell'em for parts! |
| 20:12.22 | tene | maybe you can't. |
| 20:12.36 | harleypig | You can sell'em for parts? |
| 20:12.58 | tene | I dunno. I've never tried. |
| 20:13.02 | harleypig | heh |
| 20:13.13 | harleypig | I just broke my nerf gun too ... |
| 20:13.15 | harleypig | *sigh* |
| 20:14.16 | harleypig | In a fit of childish anger and frustration I snapped the butt off ... |
| 20:14.43 | tene | do you have the technology? can you rebuild it? |
| 20:14.56 | harleypig | It'd be cheaper to buy a new one. |
| 20:15.32 | tene | what if you use human organs and tissue? |
| 20:15.46 | elg | what if you use Jayce^s hair? |
| 20:15.54 | harleypig | oooo ... a nerf Doom monster ... |
| 20:16.57 | harleypig | It can't kill you but it can distract you with straw man arguments until something bigger comes along and takes you out of your misery. |
| 20:22.46 | harleypig | when I said bigger, I meant bigger than the nerf monster, not bigger than me ... |
| 20:24.12 | *** join/#utah hagna (n=nate@70.98.162.62) |
| 20:24.23 | hagna | ip_nat: Unknown symbol ip_conntrack_tcp_update <-- what causes that? |
| 20:24.24 | hagna | linux 2.6 |
| 20:26.20 | *** join/#utah vex_ (n=vex@216.194.126.99) |
| 20:26.35 | harleypig | ip_nat doesn't know what the symbol ip_conntrack_tcp_update is. |
| 20:29.25 | harleypig | hagna: probably missing a library, or an updated library |
| 20:29.55 | hagna | heh |
| 20:31.25 | elg | or the right kernel module isn't loaded |
| 20:31.33 | harleypig | elg: good point ... |
| 20:31.53 | nick125_ | modprobe ip_conntrack? |
| 20:32.05 | hagna | elg: yeah how do I find what module exports that symbol anyway? |
| 20:32.27 | elg | good question |
| 20:32.33 | elg | modprobe -l | less |
| 20:32.34 | elg | and cross your fingers |
| 20:32.42 | elg | that something sticks out to you |
| 20:32.56 | elg | there's probably a more precise answer that sjansen knows |
| 20:33.02 | hagna | maybe strings `modprobe -l` ? |
| 20:33.34 | elg | well, the output of modprobe -l is all strings |
| 20:33.44 | elg | oh, nm |
| 20:33.56 | elg | for some odd rason I thought you typed |
| 20:34.03 | elg | strings <(modprobe -l) |
| 20:34.14 | hagna | :) |
| 20:38.31 | *** join/#utah vex_ (n=vex@216.194.126.99) |
| 20:38.39 | nick125_ | great, covad went past their commit time for the 3rd time |
| 20:39.11 | graphyx | nick125: Why do you work with covad dsl? It is home acceess or for work? |
| 20:39.12 | *** join/#utah amcnabb_ (n=amcnabb@128.187.155.208) |
| 20:39.23 | nick125_ | graphyx: home access |
| 20:39.25 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch@66.239.25.67.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 20:39.54 | graphyx | I had to work a little bit with them when I did tech support for STSN. |
| 20:39.57 | graphyx | They were a pain. |
| 20:40.09 | levi | You can get the symbol table of an object file with objdump -t |
| 20:40.13 | graphyx | Had to reboot the router a lot more often than others. |
| 20:40.53 | nick125_ | graphyx: I've been on hold with speakeasy so long while they were on hold with covad...probably spent 2 hours on hold total in the past 4 days |
| 20:41.39 | nick125_ | And, the sad part is that, it seems that DSL is going to be my only option too :( |
| 20:42.06 | graphyx | stinks. |
| 20:42.55 | nick125_ | Cable is too restrictive (not to mention I hate dealing with comcast's retarded support, but, we won't go there), T1 is too expensive, wireless is just as expensive as T1 |
| 20:43.19 | *** join/#utah graphyx (n=mkling@12.174.37.165) |
| 20:44.09 | elg | o/~ My 'ittel bruth'r just discovr'd rock 'n ro' |
| 20:44.37 | nick125_ | my line has been acting up (i.e. unstable, lag spikes, not syncing at right speed) since saturday |
| 20:46.17 | sjansen | elg: strings would know, never tried nm on a kernel module... |
| 20:46.18 | levi | hagna: The ip_conntrack module exports it |
| 20:46.49 | elg | i meant nevermind that time |
| 20:46.54 | elg | but if it works, I meant nm |
| 20:47.00 | levi | sjansen: nm works fine on kernel modules. |
| 20:47.08 | levi | As does objdump |
| 20:47.21 | sjansen | Yup, that's what I just found out. |
| 20:47.30 | sjansen | So... |
| 20:47.36 | hagna | yeah this super intelligent kernel is autoloading it for me |
| 20:47.49 | hagna | reminds me of word a little |
| 20:47.52 | sjansen | find /lib -name '*.ko' | xargs grep ip_conntrack_tcp_update |
| 20:48.12 | hagna | sjansen: cool |
| 20:48.12 | sjansen | Would be a good first step to come up with a list of suspects. |
| 20:48.20 | sjansen | And then you could use modprobe/nm/objdump to refine the search. |
| 20:48.50 | tensai | nick125_: wireless is as expensive as T1??? what kinda wireless you talking about? |
| 20:49.13 | nick125_ | tensai: oh, sorry, its about $100 cheaper..heh |
| 20:49.16 | levi | Or just go to the kernel/net/ipv4/netfilter directory of your kernel module tree and do nm *.ko | less and search for ip_conntrack_tcp_update |
| 20:49.51 | sjansen | True, a little knowledge could make the search a lot easier. |
| 20:50.48 | levi | Well, you'd probably want to use objdump -t instead, since it lists the filename for each one in its output. |
| 20:51.59 | nick125_ | $325 for 1mbit wireless |
| 20:52.17 | nick125_ | and a $495 setup fee |
| 20:52.31 | nick125_ | plus, $15 extra a month for 5 static ips |
| 20:53.07 | graphyx | at that rate the statics are cheap. |
| 20:53.22 | graphyx | I mean after the $325/mo and $495 setup |
| 20:57.15 | tensai | that's more than we charge for business wireless, and waaay more than we charge for residential |
| 20:57.51 | elg | that's an understatement |
| 20:57.59 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 20:58.40 | nick125_ | personally, I do thing this company is a little overpriced.. |
| 20:58.46 | sjansen | Perhaps, but I charge $3500 for two tin cans and a mile of string... and my support is lousy. |
| 20:58.55 | nick125_ | $1700-$2000 for a 1.5mbit t1 |
| 20:59.45 | tensai | uh, yes. that's a bit much for that too unless your T1 is from new york to sfo |
| 21:00.02 | nick125_ | $125 a month for 512k residential |
| 21:00.13 | tensai | what company is this? |
| 21:00.16 | elg | where is this? remind me never to move there |
| 21:00.26 | nick125_ | elg: albuquerque, nm |
| 21:00.44 | tensai | there's your problem. new mexico is a hole |
| 21:00.45 | elg | what?! I'm in las cruces (podunkville compared to abq) |
| 21:00.55 | macnewbold | if anyone here is interested in buying anything from VisiBone (http://www.visibone.com/catalog/) UPHPU is doing a group order at at least a 25-30% discount with free shipping. Let me know if you want to join in on the order. |
| 21:00.59 | elg | and I only pay $33/mo for 1.5 |
| 21:01.02 | elg | (qwest) |
| 21:01.06 | elg | and then $20 for xmission |
| 21:01.08 | tene | $40/mo for 15mbit symmetric |
| 21:01.10 | sjansen | Yeah, NM is a hole. You'd have to be a fool to live there. |
| 21:01.23 | elg | -lart sjansen |
| 21:01.29 | nick125_ | -lart sjansen |
| 21:01.37 | nick125_ | :) |
| 21:01.40 | elg | isn't qwest in albuquerque? how do they compete? |
| 21:01.42 | sjansen | yay! Healthy eating and powerful coding! |
| 21:02.00 | nick125_ | elg: qwest is in albuquerque..but, right now, I'm a *little* fed up with DSL.. |
| 21:02.23 | sjansen | Qworst's reputations? Kick backs? Mob enforcers? |
| 21:02.26 | emcnabb | so, the question I posed earlier was only kind of answered; when doing consulting (system administration), how much do you generally charge per hour (in dollars) |
| 21:02.42 | elg | emcnabb: as much as I can |
| 21:02.46 | beandog | double your salaray rate. :) |
| 21:02.48 | beandog | er |
| 21:02.49 | beandog | yah. |
| 21:02.52 | sjansen | I charge 1 tuna fish sandwich. |
| 21:02.54 | tene | emcnabb: $2/hour |
| 21:02.56 | nick125_ | usuaully depends |
| 21:02.57 | tensai | how about this one. after yesterday's fiber cut in wyoming where they dropped 911 service for 3 counties, qwest cross connected a bunch of T1s to get 911 service back |
| 21:03.00 | emcnabb | nooooo!!!! |
| 21:03.06 | emcnabb | I give up on #utah!!!! |
| 21:03.17 | tensai | they didn't document which ones, so the people whose T1s they broke had to call in and complain to get them back up |
| 21:03.21 | nick125_ | emcnabb: usually, anywhere from $30 to $60 |
| 21:03.54 | emcnabb | nick125_: thank you for responding with a dollar amount instead of in tunafish sandwiches |
| 21:04.01 | jsmith | tensai: Why am I not surprised in the slightest bit? |
| 21:04.02 | nick125_ | sure |
| 21:04.13 | sjansen | emcnabb: If you're good, $100/hr. isn't unheard of; ~$40 is more common. |
| 21:04.16 | emcnabb | he's cheap |
| 21:04.26 | nick125_ | emcnabb: yeah |
| 21:04.37 | nick125_ | a tunafish sandwich is what..? $5? |
| 21:04.45 | sjansen | emcnabb: Remember, those who can, teach. |
| 21:04.48 | elg | -$5 |
| 21:04.49 | tensai | emcnabb: look at the quality job he did for the plug website |
| 21:04.49 | sjansen | ;-) |
| 21:04.56 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 21:05.02 | tensai | and I think he got a roast beef sandwich for that one |
| 21:05.37 | nick125_ | which is worth more? |
| 21:05.45 | nick125_ | tunafish or roast beef? |
| 21:06.03 | nick125_ | my cat says the tunafish |
| 21:06.11 | tensai | my cow agrees |
| 21:06.46 | nick125_ | tensai: well...getting a sandwich is better then I used to get! |
| 21:07.53 | redbeard1 | mmm... grilled cheese |
| 21:08.04 | elg | ok, in C++ this means constructor and destructor right? but what is the third symbol? |
| 21:08.07 | elg | ld: Undefined symbols: |
| 21:08.10 | elg | __ZN7CommandC2Ev |
| 21:08.12 | elg | __ZN7CommandD2Ev |
| 21:08.15 | elg | __ZTI7Command |
| 21:08.43 | sjansen | C++-- |
| 21:10.24 | emcnabb | thanks all! |
| 21:10.29 | emcnabb | - sjansen |
| 21:10.33 | emcnabb | ~lart sjansen |
| 21:10.39 | emcnabb | ~die sjansen |
| 21:10.43 | ibot | ACTION takes two shots to the head, murders sjansen then crumples to the ground, lifeless... |
| 21:10.45 | *** join/#utah Robdor (n=rob@208.187.198.179) |
| 21:10.46 | emcnabb | ~fry sjansen |
| 21:10.47 | ibot | ACTION grabs sjansen and fries him on his BFCooker9000 |
| 21:11.15 | emcnabb | ibot, you really are a true friend |
| 21:11.16 | ibot | emcnabb: what are you talking about? |
| 21:11.20 | emcnabb | doh! |
| 21:11.23 | herlo | ~rlart |
| 21:11.39 | nick125_ | TUX! |
| 21:11.47 | emcnabb | there's a guy here who has a huge tux doll |
| 21:11.57 | emcnabb | it's probably 5 ft high |
| 21:12.18 | elg | he probably hides inside sometimes |
| 21:12.20 | *** join/#utah eswald_ (n=breadman@c-67-169-244-240.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 21:13.59 | tensai | more likely he's really a mutant iguana who has both human and tux mechanized bodies |
| 21:25.22 | *** join/#utah RyanE_ (i=Piadas@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
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| 21:39.25 | levi | elg: You can use c++filt to demangle them |
| 21:40.30 | elg | cool |
| 21:41.22 | elg | ardour uses scons to build |
| 21:41.25 | elg | scons is mostly cool |
| 21:41.52 | elg | but they missed the boat on caching |
| 21:42.30 | levi | You'll want to do c++filt -_ for those names, since the first leading underscore throws it off. |
| 21:42.43 | levi | The third symbol demangles as 'typeinfo for Command' |
| 21:47.30 | elg | actually my c++filt handled them just fine |
| 21:47.38 | elg | probably an osx thing |
| 21:48.31 | levi | I was doing it on Linux. |
| 21:48.43 | levi | Anyway, I guess the typeinfo symbol has something to do with RTTI. |
| 21:49.28 | elg | yeah |
| 21:49.49 | elg | I think so. I think it'll go away when I implement the destructor and contsructor |
| 21:49.52 | elg | yup |
| 21:50.34 | elg | so a scons run on ardour takes (on my laptop) about 5 minutes to figure out it doesn't have to build anything |
| 21:50.43 | levi | Heh. |
| 21:50.49 | elg | and a big chunk of that is configure-like stuff that it could cache |
| 21:50.59 | levi | Well, compiling on my iBook never struck me as very fast. |
| 21:51.25 | elg | and we could write our own cache with python since scons is python, but that's something I think scons should help us with |
| 21:51.37 | elg | well compiling ardour from scratch takes like an hour |
| 21:51.53 | elg | maybe a little less, I can't remember |
| 21:52.14 | levi | Yeah, you'd think they'd cache that stuff. |
| 21:52.46 | elg | then scons also looks at md5 sums of files to see if they need recompiling |
| 21:52.51 | elg | which looks good on paper |
| 21:53.07 | elg | but I think timestamps are good enough and save time |
| 21:53.27 | elg | and it calculates dependencies from the code |
| 21:53.36 | elg | that's gotta slow things down a bit |
| 21:54.02 | elg | levi: but the real problem isn't the big compile. it's the change a little file and recompile that one object file |
| 21:54.11 | elg | when that takes 5 minutes each iteration that raelly cramps your style |
| 21:54.27 | levi | Yeah. |
| 21:54.37 | levi | I guess they're counting on speedy build machines. |
| 21:54.52 | elg | or fewer configure-like checks |
| 21:56.14 | levi | This is why image-based development is great for rapid development. |
| 21:56.35 | levi | You only have to compile the function you want, and it gets loaded immediately into a running program. |
| 21:57.00 | levi | But, alas, C/C++. |
| 21:57.38 | levi | IIRC, Lucid was actually working on an image-based C++ development environment at one point. That would have been slick. |
| 21:58.57 | levi | Lucid is one of the many tragic Lisp business stories. |
| 22:00.24 | elg | yeah |
| 22:00.33 | elg | interpreted is great for rapid too |
| 22:02.42 | levi | Actually, I don't think interpreted vs. compiled makes much difference. It's the interactive, image-based nature that's the big win. It just so happens that a lot of interpreters have an environment like that. |
| 22:03.44 | levi | sbcl, for example, has no interpreter. It compiles everything you type at the REPL before running it. |
| 22:04.10 | hagna | this might be ot... how do I save my game in prince of persia? |
| 22:05.01 | tene | you can make it on-topic if you relate it to open-source somehow. |
| 22:07.13 | beandog | the original? you don't |
| 22:07.16 | beandog | you hit the pause key. |
| 22:07.41 | levi | elg: Here's a paper on the 'Energize' environment for C/C++ development: http://www.dreamsongs.com/NewFiles/Energize.pdf |
| 22:08.20 | hagna | tene: while I wait for my source which is open to compile I'll play that game |
| 22:08.57 | hagna | beandog: ahhh the pause key thanks |
| 22:08.58 | tene | That sounds close enoguh for me. |
| 22:09.03 | hagna | beandog: what key is that? |
| 22:15.15 | *** join/#utah [Utah]tristanbob (i=tristanb@137.190.3.107) |
| 22:21.27 | [phoenyx] | http://penguinpetes.com/b2evo/index.php?title=how_to_totally_fake_being_a_geek |
| 22:21.28 | brac | [Penguin Pete's Blog - How To Totally Fake Being A Geek] |
| 22:21.41 | [phoenyx] | there could be non-geeks lurking among us! |
| 22:39.33 | findlay | elg: that's what ccache is for |
| 22:39.48 | findlay | and confcache |
| 22:40.12 | elg | whatever they are probably aren't going to work with scons |
| 22:40.37 | elg | you tell scons "I want to test for the library foo" with some python |
| 22:40.39 | findlay | confcache mighe not but ccache is a wrapper for plain old gcc |
| 22:40.41 | elg | and scons test for foo every time |
| 22:40.59 | findlay | elg: sorry you have to use scons |
| 22:44.26 | findlay | and it's making me hungry |
| 23:04.12 | *** part/#utah beandog (n=sdibb@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 23:16.27 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 23:16.27 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 23:22.13 | *** part/#utah [phoenyx] (n=tthorley@64.147.152.13) |
| 23:37.20 | *** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@65.89.234.66) |
| 23:37.28 | fozzmoo | Need help. |
| 23:37.39 | fozzmoo | Any software raid expertise here? |
| 23:37.54 | sjansen | fozzmoo: How expert are you needing? |
| 23:38.03 | fozzmoo | Maybe... a guru?! |
| 23:38.21 | fozzmoo | OKay... so something very strrage happened on a box. |
| 23:38.30 | fozzmoo | Software raid doing level 5 across three disks. |
| 23:38.52 | fozzmoo | I need to recover some data... but /proc/mdstat doesn't show the raid device. |
| 23:39.04 | ScytheBlade1 | Did you make the mdadm.conf? |
| 23:39.15 | fozzmoo | I can use mdadm -E on the physical devices and they appear intact. |
| 23:39.25 | ScytheBlade1 | Try just mdadm --start /dev/md0 |
| 23:39.40 | fozzmoo | Good idea. Hang on. I need to switch to wireless and carry my laptop back to the bench. |
| 23:41.22 | *** join/#utah fozzmo1 (n=fozz@65.89.234.66) |
| 23:41.25 | fozzmo1 | Back |
| 23:41.28 | fozzmo1 | Oh dang it. |
| 23:42.43 | fozzmoo | Much better. |
| 23:43.30 | fozzmoo | No luck on the mdadm --start /dev/md4 |
| 23:43.46 | fozzmoo | I ncorrect syntax |
| 23:44.14 | fozzmoo | Just so you know, I'm in rescue mode trying to recover this stuff. |
| 23:45.00 | ScytheBlade1 | I've had crap using --create instead of --build to create the array |
| 23:45.04 | ScytheBlade1 | Try to --assemble it? |
| 23:45.24 | fozzmoo | Says it's not in the config file. |
| 23:45.28 | fozzmoo | I guess I need a config file. |
| 23:45.43 | ScytheBlade1 | Yeah, you'll have to basically issue the command you did to create the array, only with --assemble |
| 23:47.25 | *** join/#utah spr (n=spr@c-67-169-251-207.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 23:47.45 | amcnabb | You don't need a config file. |
| 23:47.56 | amcnabb | You can specify the individual devices at the end of the mdadm line |
| 23:48.02 | fozzmoo | With --assemble? |
| 23:48.04 | ScytheBlade1 | Aye |
| 23:48.05 | amcnabb | Yep. |
| 23:48.39 | amcnabb | like, mdadm --assemble /dev/md0 /dev/sda1 /dev/sdb1 ... |
| 23:49.04 | fozzmoo | Okay. How do I disassemble it? |
| 23:49.34 | fozzmoo | Now I've got a /dev/md4 with a couple devices on it, but no raid level or anything. |
| 23:49.44 | fozzmoo | Kinda bizarre. |
| 23:50.07 | amcnabb | ? |
| 23:50.12 | amcnabb | Say that again. |
| 23:50.17 | fozzmoo | cat /proc/mdstat says... |
| 23:50.33 | fozzmoo | md4 : inactive sda10[0] sdb10[1] |
| 23:50.46 | amcnabb | weird |
| 23:51.15 | ScytheBlade1 | Now try to --start |
| 23:51.24 | fozzmoo | mdadm --start ? |
| 23:51.35 | ScytheBlade1 | mdadm --start /dev/md4 |
| 23:51.52 | fozzmoo | unrecognized option `--start' |
| 23:52.04 | amcnabb | Do mdadm -D /dev/md4 |
| 23:52.05 | fozzmoo | --manage ? |
| 23:52.05 | brac | you best check yo'self! |
| 23:52.08 | amcnabb | just for kicks |
| 23:52.29 | fozzmoo | amcnabb: That says RAID5, so that's good. |
| 23:52.47 | fozzmoo | (yeah- I know I'm dealing with a degraded RAID5 array.) |
| 23:53.15 | amcnabb | You can pass -R to assemble to tell it to start even though it's missing devices. |
| 23:53.17 | amcnabb | It might need that. |
| 23:53.34 | amcnabb | I think at this point you can do: |
| 23:53.37 | amcnabb | mdadm -R /dev/md4 |
| 23:53.47 | amcnabb | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:53.47 | amcnabb | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:53.51 | amcnabb | (from the man page) |
| 23:54.01 | fozzmoo | mdadm: failed to run array /dev/md4: Input/output error |
| 23:54.18 | amcnabb | That sounds like a good message, right? |
| 23:55.06 | fozzmoo | Whoa. |
| 23:55.13 | fozzmoo | I hot-added the third device... |
| 23:55.20 | fozzmoo | It worked... |
| 23:55.23 | amcnabb | Cool. |
| 23:55.30 | fozzmoo | and then I got spinlock recursion on CPU#0 |
| 23:55.34 | fozzmoo | and the machine froze. |
| 23:55.36 | amcnabb | Wow. |
| 23:55.45 | amcnabb | I've never seen that before. :) |
| 23:56.19 | amcnabb | Here's something else I saw. |
| 23:56.34 | amcnabb | If you're missing a device, the assemble line can look like: |
| 23:56.58 | amcnabb | mdadm -A /dev/md4 /dev/sda10 /dev/sdb10 missing |
| 23:57.07 | fozzmoo | Interesting. |
| 23:57.15 | amcnabb | The missing there makes it explicit that you're in degraded mode. |
| 23:57.22 | fozzmoo | Booting into rescue mode. I'll try that. |
| 23:57.25 | amcnabb | I guess they don't want you to accidentally leave out a disk. |
| 23:57.52 | amcnabb | Accidentally leaving out a disk could lead to hours of unnecessary rebuild time. |
| 23:57.53 | fozzmoo | We managed to get 45% of the files off the disk before it went kaplooey. |
| 23:58.54 | fozzmoo | mdadm: cannot open device missing: No such file or directory |
| 23:59.28 | ScytheBlade1 | fozzmoo, does the md4 device exist? |