| 00:03.04 | findlay | anybody know how to shorten the delay after entering the wrong password |
| 00:03.05 | findlay | ? |
| 00:03.14 | findlay | it can get really annoying sometimes |
| 00:03.49 | findlay | as in it shouldn't take 5 seconds for the computer to figure out I've entered the wrong password |
| 00:04.19 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 00:06.32 | elg | sigh |
| 00:07.35 | elg | levi_home: one of the aptitude-challenged students had a really really hard time today with totalpoints = totalpoints + points*credit_hours; |
| 00:08.07 | tene | Interesting. |
| 00:08.18 | tene | findlay: that's to prevent brute-force, oslt |
| 00:08.23 | elg | she kept wanting totalpoints = points * credit_hours |
| 00:08.50 | elg | and for the life of me I couldn't get her to see the whole "get the old value to calculate the new value" paradigm |
| 00:09.33 | elg | vontrapp: it's a feature, not a bug |
| 00:09.44 | elg | you weren't using your memory anyay |
| 00:10.03 | findlay | tene: I figured, but I wish I could differentiate for gdm and friends |
| 00:10.03 | vontrapp | elg: that's the problem, i would be if it were only available |
| 00:10.35 | elg | pshaw. as if you know better than firefox what belongs in memory |
| 00:10.53 | tene | elg: +=, maybe? |
| 00:11.22 | elg | tene: I don't know. if they can't figure out foo = foo + bar, then how can they grok foo += bar? |
| 00:11.24 | findlay | elg: maybe you're not being abstract enough about memory storage locations, that the names for them are just convenience |
| 00:11.36 | vontrapp | elg: first, explain that "totalpoints + points * credit_hours" is what you really want |
| 00:11.47 | vontrapp | when she gets that much, then explain the assignment |
| 00:11.51 | elg | vontrapp: that's the hard part |
| 00:12.08 | tristanbob_ | anyone else have an outdoor cat? |
| 00:12.10 | elg | or at least one of the |
| 00:12.14 | elg | hard parts. |
| 00:12.19 | vontrapp | it just seems to me she's stumbling on wanting totalpoints in the statement only once |
| 00:12.31 | findlay | perhaps she's not realizing that totalpoints is _not_ being modified _in place_ |
| 00:12.36 | tristanbob_ | I keep wondering where he goes during the day - I am tempted to rig a harness and put a GPS device on his back |
| 00:12.40 | elg | we go over how we need a loop to get each input value. they seem to get that |
| 00:13.25 | elg | but some don't seem to get the idea of an accumulator |
| 00:13.34 | findlay | the rvalue goes into a tempory work area to be calculated then returns to it's old place in memory |
| 00:14.02 | tene | the += operator seems like it would be a bit clearer semantically. |
| 00:14.14 | findlay | and seismically |
| 00:14.26 | vontrapp | and squarely |
| 00:14.33 | elg | tene: well you have to think like a social worker |
| 00:14.57 | tene | Yeah. "We're stuffing this stuff on top". |
| 00:15.12 | vontrapp | elg: start with that big elephant E thing (summation) |
| 00:15.21 | vontrapp | then break it down to the many many plusses |
| 00:15.25 | vontrapp | tell tham that's too much work |
| 00:15.30 | vontrapp | then go on to the accumulator |
| 00:15.35 | elg | check |
| 00:15.57 | elg | did the 3rd grade add a column of numbers too, and we store the intermediate values in our heads |
| 00:16.01 | elg | everyone nods |
| 00:16.19 | vontrapp | sometimes getting why you would want something helps you to understand what it's doing |
| 00:16.22 | elg | but sit them in front of a computer and that abstract notion of an intermediate variable goes away |
| 00:16.35 | findlay | elg: interesting |
| 00:17.03 | elg | they think "oh, we're looping, so if I do foo = bar*baz; at the end foo will have it all together" |
| 00:17.06 | findlay | interesting that they don't remember |
| 00:17.17 | tene | elg: += will work there. |
| 00:17.33 | elg | tene: I'll give it a shot |
| 00:17.33 | vontrapp | i can't even count how many times i've pushed 'q' in vim, then later gone to ':q' and gotten some strange record buffer opened on me |
| 00:17.57 | tene | and then explain in a different context what += "means". |
| 00:18.05 | findlay | it's like music. You cam play one hand and pedals at a time but combine them all and it's like a whole new thing |
| 00:18.29 | findlay | vontrapp: I hate that one |
| 00:18.35 | elg | findlay: yeah, that's what this lab is. they've done all the parts (except summation, I had no idea it would be so hard for them to do summation) |
| 00:18.45 | elg | and now they get to put them together into one program |
| 00:18.51 | elg | i expected that to be hard |
| 00:18.56 | elg | I didn't expect the summation hangup |
| 00:19.21 | vontrapp | -lart blisters |
| 00:19.25 | findlay | for me it was probably a lot easier because I already understood mathematical summations |
| 00:19.36 | elg | tene: the problem is that they don't seem to grasp that the variable has different accumulating values throug every iteration |
| 00:19.54 | elg | findlay: yeah, definitely |
| 00:19.55 | tene | nodnod |
| 00:20.10 | elg | findlay: look at all the people that have a real hard time with calculus, which is basically big summations |
| 00:20.27 | elg | I guess in retrospect this isn't too surprising, but it took me off guard |
| 00:20.39 | tene | personally, I'd use += and explain it as "we're taking this part every time and just stacking it in this pile" |
| 00:20.56 | elg | tene: I think that's a good idea, and you give me an idea to do a visual aid |
| 00:20.59 | findlay | it took me a really long time to understand iterations like that |
| 00:21.11 | tene | And then separately show what += does |
| 00:21.30 | elg | something like a tube of marbles or something |
| 00:21.58 | *** mode/#utah [-o maquis] by ChanServ |
| 00:22.02 | findlay | I blame my public education for not having a decent way to teach arbitrary dimensioning |
| 00:22.36 | elg | btw, when I say they I mean the ones that have been struggling. I do have another group that are doing very well |
| 00:22.57 | elg | still making mistakes and learning, but obviously grasping it. and they're not necessarily the technical major ones either |
| 00:23.44 | *** mode/#utah [-o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 00:24.06 | elg | quite interesting |
| 00:26.26 | elg | ~lart emcnabb |
| 00:26.44 | findlay | now ChanServ is becoming capricious |
| 00:27.02 | elg | capricious? |
| 00:27.46 | findlay | ~dict supercilious |
| 00:37.29 | *** join/#utah nick125_ (n=upirc@m190e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 00:37.31 | findlay | I'm the best yak shaver I know |
| 00:37.58 | findlay | that's a main reason why I use Gentoo, I think |
| 00:38.18 | *** join/#utah Jayce (n=Jayce_@208.254.183.85) |
| 00:38.19 | nick125_ | mmm |
| 00:38.49 | findlay | ~lart screen |
| 00:39.20 | findlay | great, now screen doesn't want to have any kind of scrollback |
| 00:42.37 | vontrapp | findlay: ? screen never does |
| 00:42.48 | vontrapp | not without jumping through escape sequence loops |
| 00:42.50 | vontrapp | and hoops |
| 00:42.54 | vontrapp | not loops |
| 00:42.58 | vontrapp | s/loops/hoops/ |
| 00:43.04 | vontrapp | thx ibot |
| 00:46.18 | findlay | vontrapp: yeah, but before they fixed the "bug" I alwasy took advantage of screen dumping it's scrollback into the host terminal by doing <shift>-<page up> |
| 00:46.56 | vontrapp | findlay: that never worked for me, i got stale scrollback from before i started screen |
| 00:47.23 | vontrapp | i guess if stale scrollback is what you want... |
| 00:47.38 | vontrapp | stale, crusty scrollback |
| 00:47.55 | findlay | well, now it doesn't work at all. It looks like screen tells the terminal there is no scrollaback. Probably as it should be, I guess |
| 00:48.11 | findlay | vontrapp: what other kind of scrollback is there? |
| 00:48.22 | vontrapp | or maybe you started screen in a terminal that as yet had no scrollback |
| 00:48.53 | vontrapp | well, if i ran some command in screen, and there was lots o stuff flying by, i would expact _that_ scrollback |
| 00:49.01 | vontrapp | but i would get the stale kind |
| 00:49.32 | vontrapp | mostly that happens with apt-get |
| 00:49.32 | findlay | for example: start a screen session, then do `find /etc`. I would expect to be able to do <shift>-<page up> screen or not |
| 00:50.06 | vontrapp | <command>-<esc> in screen will put you in copy mode |
| 00:50.11 | vontrapp | from whence you can page-up |
| 00:50.19 | vontrapp | <command> is crl-a by default |
| 00:50.28 | findlay | but it's not the same |
| 00:50.32 | findlay | it feels different |
| 00:50.43 | vontrapp | yes, the pitfalls of screen... |
| 00:50.52 | vontrapp | if only the world were perfect |
| 00:51.08 | findlay | and I managed to somehow kill mplayer doing it |
| 00:51.44 | findlay | and I need mplayer to cover up the satanic thumping from the apartment next door with Mozart |
| 00:52.05 | vontrapp | use mpd |
| 00:52.11 | vontrapp | then it doesn't die |
| 00:52.20 | vontrapp | even without a screen |
| 00:56.04 | *** join/#utah herlo (n=herlo@207.148.217.107) |
| 00:56.28 | findlay | :se noai |
| 00:56.29 | findlay | a:se ai |
| 00:56.39 | findlay | um, thanks irssi |
| 00:56.46 | elg | no prob |
| 00:56.47 | findlay | :se noai |
| 00:56.47 | findlay | a:se ai |
| 00:56.57 | findlay | stupid sreen |
| 00:57.00 | findlay | it's all his fault |
| 00:57.21 | vontrapp | irssi != vim |
| 00:57.29 | xbmodder_newlapp | ~force |
| 00:57.32 | ibot | extra, extra, read all about it, force is weak with me today |
| 00:58.58 | xbmodder_newlapp | ayay |
| 00:59.39 | herlo | one hot woman: http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0338751/CN-298-23A_24.jpg?path=pgallery&path_key=Beckinsale,%20Kate&seq=29 SFW or SFH |
| 00:59.45 | brac | [Studio Stills Photo] |
| 01:00.18 | herlo | another goodie http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0338526/2299-K1520-26A.jpg?path=pgallery&path_key=Beckinsale,%20Kate&seq=35 |
| 01:00.22 | brac | [Studio Stills Photo] |
| 01:01.21 | nick125 | hahah |
| 01:01.31 | herlo | oh and finally http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0389860/04781.jpg?path=pgallery&path_key=Beckinsale,%20Kate&seq=4 |
| 01:01.37 | brac | [Studio Stills Photo] |
| 01:01.39 | herlo | nick125: you like? |
| 01:01.50 | tene | so... erm... http://jordy.gundy.org/hollywood-hates-you/ |
| 01:02.02 | tene | how exactly is that "shoving" anything down your throat? |
| 01:02.06 | herlo | oh, yeah, saw that... |
| 01:02.10 | tene | Can't you just.. y'know... not watch those movies? |
| 01:02.14 | nick125 | no, I was laughing at the stupid idiot at the store that gave me some steaks for free because the retard doesn't know what she was doing |
| 01:02.39 | tene | "Instead it wants to jam profanity, graphic violence, and sex down your throat and the throats of your children, whether you want it or not." |
| 01:02.49 | tene | I don't know about you, but I've never been forced to watch a movie... |
| 01:02.51 | tene | Have you? |
| 01:03.29 | herlo | tene: its true, but its our first amendment right to bitch about it |
| 01:03.45 | tene | I'm not saying that he can't complain about it, it's just... confusing. |
| 01:04.07 | herlo | tene: also, I think he's got a point. If it were my concern, I'd like to see movies without certain components in them, especially unneeded ones... |
| 01:04.35 | herlo | tene: not that Kate Winslet's breasts bugged me, I did think it was unneeded |
| 01:06.38 | herlo | tene: anyway, I think the Jordy-Blog has a point... |
| 01:06.38 | tene | How is it shoving down your throat, though? |
| 01:06.46 | tene | There's a point there, yes. |
| 01:07.10 | herlo | tene, well, if I wanted to see a titty free titanic, I'd probably go rent it from somewhere like Clean Flicks |
| 01:07.11 | tene | Yeah, it's nice, and kind of silly to restrict |
| 01:07.47 | herlo | and on occasion, I'd do that because my son doesn't need to see that, but the entertainment value of the movie might be worth watching. |
| 01:08.00 | herlo | or its semi-educational |
| 01:08.25 | tene | But, for example, if I sell "Candy with razors in it." and clearly label it as "cany with razors in it", am I shoving razors down your throat? |
| 01:08.36 | herlo | teaches kids a lesson, but its supposed to be a family type movie, yet there are several foul words that I wouldn't approve my son hearing, let alone using... |
| 01:08.40 | tene | s/cany/Candy/ |
| 01:08.49 | herlo | yeah, I get it. |
| 01:09.12 | herlo | its just now I can't watch movies that I'd like to see, because there is offensive material in them... |
| 01:09.57 | herlo | and I guess you could construe that as, forcing it down your throat because otherwise you'd be able to skip the parts you don't wanna see, and thus the movie experience might be a bit different, yet still appropriate. |
| 01:10.08 | findlay | tene: yup people are dumb like that |
| 01:10.20 | findlay | *everyone* is dumb like that |
| 01:10.49 | herlo | anyway, I am off to see Click, with Kate Beckinsale, so I will leave you in your thoughts for now... |
| 01:28.36 | *** mode/#utah [+o maquis] by ChanServ |
| 01:28.58 | findlay | ChanServ seems fritzy tonight |
| 01:29.12 | nick125_lappy | findlay: maybe.... |
| 01:29.49 | nick125_lappy | or maybe maquis opped herself? |
| 01:30.13 | maquis | i told ChanServ to op me |
| 01:30.19 | maquis | why'd he de-op me earlier? |
| 01:30.25 | findlay | yeah |
| 01:30.28 | nick125_lappy | maquis: because he can.. |
| 01:30.35 | maquis | sadness |
| 01:30.38 | findlay | maquis: he did it to ibot too |
| 01:30.43 | nick125_lappy | its against freenode policy to keep oped IIRC |
| 01:31.00 | findlay | heh, and now chanserv is enforcing it |
| 01:31.14 | findlay | maybe Jayce or timriker was having some fun |
| 01:32.27 | maquis | yeah |
| 01:32.34 | maquis | emcnabb is still opped |
| 01:32.42 | maquis | wow |
| 01:32.47 | maquis | there are 2 Jayces |
| 01:32.51 | maquis | one with the ^ and one without |
| 01:33.36 | nick125_lappy | goozbach, Jayce, and hans all told chanserv something about 33 minutes ago.. |
| 01:33.53 | maquis | nick125_lappy: ?? |
| 01:34.05 | nick125_lappy | and apt |
| 01:34.15 | nick125_lappy | maquis: I'm just looking though the access list.. |
| 01:34.54 | *** join/#utah herlo1 (n=upirc@h46078712.area7.spcsdns.net) |
| 01:35.08 | maquis | hmmm |
| 01:35.11 | maquis | will have to deal with them |
| 01:35.48 | maquis | thing is... i lost my @ about half an hour before that |
| 01:35.49 | findlay | maquis, the renegade op |
| 01:36.02 | maquis | but i suppose this is the most recent thing they've said to him |
| 01:36.14 | findlay | or is it the other ops are complicit in a coup? |
| 01:42.32 | maquis | it's possible |
| 01:56.45 | *** join/#utah mrpull-m (n=mrpull@wirelessdata-031-029.mycingular.net) |
| 02:01.35 | *** join/#utah mrpull-m (n=mrpull@wirelessdata-031-029.mycingular.net) |
| 02:11.18 | *** mode/#utah [+o goozbach] by ChanServ |
| 02:11.27 | goozbach | coup? |
| 02:12.39 | *** mode/#utah [-o goozbach] by goozbach |
| 02:13.05 | goozbach | maquis: you changed your nick that's why chanserv de-opped you |
| 02:15.44 | dilvie | hmm |
| 02:23.52 | *** join/#utah vex (i=nwood@stutter.prohosting.com) |
| 02:24.10 | findlay | anybody know how I would get Getopt::Long to reprocess standard input? |
| 02:31.23 | goozbach | re-process standard in? |
| 02:31.50 | goozbach | copy @ARGV to another array before you process |
| 02:36.08 | findlay | I have a program that expects user input and I want to use Getopt::Long to process it |
| 02:36.24 | maquis | goozbach: huh? |
| 02:36.31 | maquis | i got de-opped at a different point |
| 02:36.47 | goozbach | ahh |
| 02:37.01 | goozbach | getopt long just does command line arguments |
| 02:37.23 | goozbach | I guess you could store your input into @ARGV |
| 02:37.25 | findlay | so there's no way to invoke it again? |
| 02:37.43 | goozbach | sure you can, but it pops every thing out of @ARGV |
| 02:37.54 | findlay | ok |
| 02:37.57 | findlay | I'll try that |
| 02:38.05 | goozbach | so re-populate @ARGV via STDIN |
| 02:38.12 | goozbach | then re invoke it |
| 02:38.25 | goozbach | I don't see why that's usefull |
| 02:38.32 | goozbach | but it seems possible |
| 02:38.39 | findlay | goozbach: what would you do? |
| 02:38.48 | goozbach | what are you trying to accomplish? |
| 02:39.08 | goozbach | lets say I have a program that de-frobs text |
| 02:39.30 | goozbach | and I can pass a CL argument for the filename to de-frob |
| 02:39.36 | findlay | I have a perl script that manages scanning a bunch of pages, but I want to be able to pass options to scanimage on the fly |
| 02:39.56 | goozbach | or if the CL isn't supplied, I ask for input |
| 02:39.57 | findlay | like some of the pages need to be in color, but most don't |
| 02:40.14 | goozbach | load the pagenames in an array |
| 02:40.18 | goozbach | and ask on each one |
| 02:40.43 | goozbach | "you like color this one?[Y/N]" |
| 02:45.15 | findlay | I would have a prompt like this: "[0001]: -c --dpi=128" with the default page no in [brackets] |
| 02:45.24 | findlay | and -c for color |
| 02:48.28 | goozbach | ok |
| 02:48.57 | goozbach | store that into a string from stdin and pass it to scanimage |
| 02:49.02 | findlay | but I guess I don't need Getopt::Long for that |
| 02:49.25 | goozbach | make it so if stdin is empty, the default is that -c --dpi=128 stuff |
| 02:49.29 | goozbach | nah |
| 02:49.41 | goozbach | getopt is SOLEy for the command line arguments |
| 02:50.20 | findlay | but I want to think of my script as constatnly re invoking a command |
| 02:57.48 | *** join/#utah vex` (i=nwood@stutter.prohosting.com) |
| 03:00.16 | goozbach | is can |
| 03:00.27 | goozbach | but you don't want to use getopt to re-invoke that command |
| 03:00.52 | goozbach | you want to use input and output from your script to generate the command line with wich you will invoke the subcommand |
| 03:01.28 | goozbach | wha? |
| 03:01.47 | goozbach | what is the default rpmbuild directory |
| 03:06.25 | nick125_lappy | wouldn't it take alot to bog down a IRC bot written in ASM? (if there was one..) |
| 03:10.40 | goozbach | who in their right mind would right an IRC bot in ASM? |
| 03:10.50 | goozbach | frameworks exist for a reason |
| 03:11.00 | goozbach | higher level languages exist for a reason |
| 03:13.49 | nick125_lappy | goozbach: performance..... |
| 03:18.15 | goozbach | for an IRC bot? |
| 03:18.20 | levi_home | nick125_lappy: You do not yet understand the ways of programming, obviously. |
| 03:18.27 | goozbach | squeezing blod from a stone? |
| 03:18.32 | goozbach | blood that is |
| 03:18.42 | nick125_lappy | lol |
| 03:18.54 | nick125_lappy | levi_home: it would get rid of all overhead....hehe |
| 03:19.01 | tene | nick125_lappy: what do you think the limiting task in an IRC bot is? |
| 03:19.03 | goozbach | what on earth is an IRC bot worried about performance |
| 03:19.05 | goozbach | ? |
| 03:19.10 | goozbach | it's an IRC BOT |
| 03:19.20 | nick125_lappy | goozbach: well, more like IRC services.... |
| 03:19.23 | levi_home | nick125_lappy: Have you ever written a program in assembly language? |
| 03:19.34 | nick125_lappy | levi_home: no, it was kind of a joke, but.. |
| 03:19.39 | tene | Hey! Goozbach! *I*'m an IRC bot! |
| 03:19.41 | goozbach | hey guys, look at this lawnmower, it's got the engine of a chinnok helechopter |
| 03:19.52 | nick125_lappy | goozbach: haha |
| 03:19.55 | levi_home | asm is not even necessarily faster. |
| 03:19.55 | goozbach | tene: but you're written in perl, with some C modules |
| 03:20.05 | tene | Yep. |
| 03:20.18 | nick125_lappy | levi_home: well, it would get rid of some of the overhead.. |
| 03:20.23 | goozbach | nick125_lappy: write an IRC bot in C if you're worried about performance |
| 03:20.25 | levi_home | nick125_lappy: What overhead? |
| 03:20.31 | goozbach | nick125_lappy: what overhead? |
| 03:20.50 | *** join/#utah ddd^irc_whore (n=dddbliss@cpe-72-132-243-73.san.res.rr.com) |
| 03:20.52 | nick125_lappy | that all those high-level programming languages have ;) it was a joke, guys |
| 03:21.30 | goozbach | an IRC bot is 99% of the time are IO bound, not Computationallly bound |
| 03:21.45 | goozbach | howdy ddd^irc_whore |
| 03:21.48 | xbmodder_newlapp | nick125_lappy, What Overhead? |
| 03:21.58 | levi_home | Languages do not have overhead. Overhead is an implementation issue. |
| 03:22.23 | nick125_lappy | goozbach: well, this isn't exactly an IRC bot, more like IRC services, where it needs to scale, and, might need to run complex database queries |
| 03:22.26 | nick125_lappy | xbmodder_newlapp: I'm going to hurt you |
| 03:22.32 | xbmodder_newlapp | lol |
| 03:22.47 | goozbach | write it in Perl and POE |
| 03:22.49 | tene | nick125_lappy: get in line. |
| 03:22.59 | goozbach | run it on a multi-core server |
| 03:23.03 | xbmodder_newlapp | write an IRC server/services in ASM, then "daily wtf" it |
| 03:26.11 | goozbach | nick125_lappy: threads |
| 03:26.20 | levi_home | nick125_lappy: Scalability does not come from micro-optimizations. It's an architectural issue. |
| 03:26.25 | nick125_lappy | goozbach: I was thinking of that.. |
| 03:26.31 | goozbach | in whichever high level language you choose |
| 03:26.35 | goozbach | C |
| 03:26.38 | goozbach | c++ |
| 03:26.47 | goozbach | Perl even |
| 03:30.34 | nick125_lappy | mmm |
| 03:31.07 | nick125_lappy | the reason I don't want to do it sync or even async is, what if theres a DB query that will take longer to process, etc |
| 03:31.14 | ddd^irc_whore | the idea is to write a custom irc services package, so it needs to handle networking very smoothly, and be able to also parse and handle the incoming "commands" from users in a timely manner |
| 03:32.01 | goozbach | nick125_lappy: ever visited aol's home page |
| 03:32.02 | goozbach | ? |
| 03:32.20 | goozbach | there are millions of database queries/second on that page |
| 03:32.24 | goozbach | some of them LARGE |
| 03:32.32 | ddd^irc_whore | since these are services, it would be best to assume there is a lot coming in from the server, and a lot going out, network will be the biggest area I am assuming overall |
| 03:32.45 | goozbach | most of the code that generates that page is TCL |
| 03:33.07 | goozbach | yeah |
| 03:33.22 | goozbach | but most network issues are something you have little to no control over |
| 03:33.37 | goozbach | therefore fixing your bot to be faster by programming in ASM is silly |
| 03:34.00 | nick125_lappy | goozbach: programming it in ASM was a joke...and it will always be... |
| 03:34.06 | goozbach | yeah yea |
| 03:34.10 | goozbach | sure it is |
| 03:34.16 | goozbach | my advice |
| 03:34.17 | goozbach | Perl |
| 03:34.20 | goozbach | or TCL |
| 03:34.24 | goozbach | or C |
| 03:34.27 | nick125_lappy | we're thinking python.. |
| 03:34.32 | goozbach | python even |
| 03:34.37 | levi_home | Python is fine. |
| 03:34.39 | nick125_lappy | and optimize the code |
| 03:34.48 | goozbach | there are bot frameworks that will have you going in no time |
| 03:34.58 | levi_home | A fairly popular MMORPG is implemented in Python. |
| 03:35.07 | levi_home | Stackless Python, even. |
| 03:35.13 | goozbach | and you're prbally not going to get it to run much tighter rolling your own framework |
| 03:35.30 | ddd^irc_whore | hmm, anyone have any names of these frameworks |
| 03:35.34 | goozbach | so go with python, and one of the pre-existing framworks |
| 03:35.38 | nick125_lappy | goozbach: well, because of the way that we have to connect to the IRC server (we have to peer to the IRC server, like we're another IRC server) |
| 03:35.44 | nick125_lappy | we will have to write our own framework |
| 03:35.47 | nick125_lappy | or highly modify one |
| 03:35.51 | goozbach | why? |
| 03:36.03 | ddd^irc_whore | goozbach: IRC protocol |
| 03:36.12 | ddd^irc_whore | we need to connect as a server, not as a user. |
| 03:36.40 | ddd^irc_whore | the only real difference is as opposed to NICK/USER, to send PASS/SERVER, and the commands we can use are also different |
| 03:37.10 | goozbach | and you can't use the frameworks that are already bulit for this why? |
| 03:37.12 | levi_home | maquis: You're sure kick-happy these days. |
| 03:37.20 | tene | Ooh! Kick me! Kick me! |
| 03:37.22 | *** mode/#utah [+o goozbach] by ChanServ |
| 03:37.27 | levi_home | Surely you could built it upon Twisted. |
| 03:37.31 | *** kick/#utah [tene!n=goozbach@207.108.175.219] by goozbach (goozbach) |
| 03:37.35 | *** join/#utah tene (n=tene@poipu/supporter/slacker/tene) |
| 03:37.39 | goozbach | he asked |
| 03:37.46 | ddd^irc_whore | goozbach: most of them cannot send SERVER or have SVSJOIN, etc. |
| 03:37.49 | nick125_lappy | goozbach: because the protocol differs, and, we would have to modify it to work with a differnt protocol |
| 03:37.54 | ddd^irc_whore | maquis: may I ask why? |
| 03:37.56 | maquis | ddd^irc_whore: any chance i could request a minor nick change |
| 03:38.07 | maquis | thx |
| 03:38.08 | goozbach | thanks |
| 03:38.15 | maquis | this channel generally tries to be pg-rated |
| 03:38.16 | dddbliss | sorry about that. |
| 03:38.20 | maquis | np |
| 03:38.31 | nick125_lappy | maquis: pg...hehe |
| 03:38.35 | goozbach | ~google IRC services |
| 03:38.45 | Jayce | mm.. leaving tomorrow for OSCON :) |
| 03:38.50 | goozbach | punk |
| 03:38.52 | nick125_lappy | IRC services...such as chanserv, etc |
| 03:38.54 | Jayce | heading up to Seattle for the weekend :) |
| 03:39.07 | goozbach | I'm telling YOU to google irc services |
| 03:39.11 | goozbach | bah |
| 03:39.15 | nick125_lappy | we want to write our own! :) |
| 03:39.30 | goozbach | why? there are plenty already written |
| 03:39.38 | nick125_lappy | we have unique needs |
| 03:39.50 | goozbach | not from what I see |
| 03:40.02 | levi_home | goozbach: Let them waste their time. They'll understand eventually. |
| 03:40.04 | maquis | Jayce: how'd you get to go? |
| 03:40.17 | goozbach | you have a unique need to get #utah's approval for every hair-brained idea |
| 03:40.24 | Jayce | work pays for it, of course.. |
| 03:40.30 | maquis | Jayce: i'm jealous |
| 03:40.36 | Jayce | sending 7 of us this year |
| 03:40.47 | goozbach | punk! |
| 03:40.48 | levi_home | Wow, it's the real Jayce, not his pointer. |
| 03:40.54 | nick125_lappy | goozbach: 1) no other IRC services are written in python; 2) we need to be able to integrate it with a web interface |
| 03:41.14 | Jayce | levi_home, my work account is pointing at my laptop login here |
| 03:41.15 | Jayce | :) |
| 03:41.34 | goozbach | nick125_lappy: look at twisted |
| 03:41.58 | dddbliss | http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/ |
| 03:42.56 | nick125_lappy | twisted is some fun stuff.. |
| 03:42.56 | levi_home | nick125_lappy: There seem to be quite a few IRC libraries for Python. |
| 03:43.54 | tene | nick125_lappy: out of curiousity, do you need python for something specific, or just like it? |
| 03:44.11 | nick125_lappy | tene: we like python |
| 03:44.25 | tene | Just curious. |
| 03:44.56 | levi_home | Hmm, you can run twisted on stackless python, too. |
| 03:44.59 | dddbliss | tene: in this case, the site will be using django, the idea is to use the already setup models, allowing for complete integration between the website and the services... kinda a bridge |
| 03:45.09 | tene | Okay. |
| 03:45.16 | nick125_lappy | levi_home: due to the way the IRC protocol works, we can't use pre-existing libraries, since they connect as a client, and, we have to connect services as a server |
| 03:45.38 | tene | nick125_lappy: only the client libraries connect as a client..... |
| 03:45.53 | Jayce | there are server libraries too |
| 03:46.07 | nick125_lappy | Jayce: for python? where? |
| 03:46.20 | Jayce | I dunno python, but I know for perl.. |
| 03:46.28 | Jayce | would make sense for python too |
| 03:48.02 | nick125_lappy | hmm.. |
| 03:49.29 | tene | It's a shame there's no, say, centralized archive network or something like that for python... |
| 03:50.54 | levi_home | Well, I know for sure there's no Common Lisp irc server library. ;) |
| 03:51.10 | dddbliss | twisted seems like a good idea, however their irc server implementation is for a stand-alone server, services are slightly different, such as the fact that no clients connect to them |
| 03:51.24 | dddbliss | they connect to the server, and act like a server, but are not essentially |
| 03:51.32 | nick125_lappy | dddbliss: we would have to write our own protocol handler |
| 03:51.40 | dddbliss | it appears so |
| 04:07.22 | levi_home | Interesting blog on stackless python: http://harkal.sylphis3d.com/2005/08/10/multithreaded-game-scripting-with-stackless-python/ |
| 04:11.11 | tensai | ~rlart |
| 04:13.02 | rsimpkins | Doh! |
| 04:16.49 | levi_home | http://www.eve-online.com/faq/faq_07.asp |
| 04:16.52 | brac | [EVE Online | Frequently Asked Questions] |
| 04:39.04 | xbmodder_newlapp | Did anyone enjoy the movie "Napeleon Dynamite" |
| 04:39.16 | Jayce | oh yeah |
| 04:39.30 | xbmodder_newlapp | Jayce, you did... |
| 04:39.31 | xbmodder_newlapp | :-/ |
| 04:49.06 | levi_home | Yes, Napoleon Dynamite was hilarious. |
| 05:02.12 | *** join/#utah ddd^home (n=dddbliss@cpe-72-132-243-73.san.res.rr.com) |
| 05:03.27 | xbmodder_newlapp | levi_home, what did you find funny about Napoleon Dynamite? |
| 05:10.27 | levi_home | xbmodder_newlapp: The characters and their interactions, and the depiction of rural Idaho. |
| 05:13.53 | findlay | has Napolen already fallen from pop culture |
| 05:13.54 | findlay | ? |
| 05:14.19 | findlay | 'tis a pity then. It was fun while it lasted |
| 05:14.39 | levi_home | findlay: The 'Vote for Pedro' shirts have been passe for quite a while now. |
| 05:17.31 | rsimpkins | ~lart FreeBSD |
| 05:19.38 | findlay | levi_home: how ironic |
| 05:20.18 | findlay | Napoleon 4 Evar!!!@! |
| 05:21.51 | levi_home | Heh: http://www.thornyscrate.com/~wes/roleplaying/inspirational2/ |
| 05:21.54 | brac | [Inspirational Posters] |
| 05:23.18 | Jayce | levi_home, that's *awesome* |
| 05:24.39 | levi_home | I figured at least one person here would enjoy it.:) |
| 05:25.21 | Jayce | levi_home, that's a good one to show tomorrow... I know several folks that will love it |
| 05:36.41 | *** mode/#utah [-o maquis] by ChanServ |
| 05:45.58 | levi_home | Ahh, Guy Steele: "As for C++–well, it reminds me of the Soviet-era labor joke: "They pretend to pay us, and we pretend to work." C++ pretends to provide an object-oriented data model, C++ programmers pretend to respect it, and everyone pretends that the code will work. The actual data model of C++ is exactly that of C, a single two-dimensional array of bits, eight by four billion, and all the syntactic sugar of C++ fundamentally cannot mask the g |
| 05:49.09 | Jayce | goozbach, just for you http://www.thornyscrate.com/~wes/roleplaying/inspirational2/ignorance.jpg |
| 05:49.17 | Jayce | #@$# you levi_home , can't stop reading |
| 05:51.55 | levi_home | Hmm. Interesting: http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?LanguageAuthorBeardPattern |
| 05:51.59 | Jayce | anyways, heading to bed... cya'll later |
| 05:54.23 | herlo | levi_home: okay that last one is just crazy |
| 05:54.45 | levi_home | The language author beard pattern? |
| 05:54.54 | herlo | levi_home: yep |
| 05:55.02 | herlo | levi_home: my design pattern for growing a beard is nowhere near that complex |
| 05:59.46 | *** join/#utah findlay (n=justin@67.137.24.115) |
| 06:03.24 | levi_home | Hi, findlay. |
| 06:24.56 | tene | nick125_lappy: http://www.nightmare.com/medusa/ |
| 06:25.24 | nick125_lappy | I don't exactly trust that URL.. |
| 06:25.47 | tene | why not? |
| 06:25.51 | tene | *confused* |
| 06:52.43 | *** join/#utah bertbob (n=bertbob@c-67-166-126-128.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 07:09.09 | xbmodder_newlapp | Jayce^, hehe |
| 07:19.16 | xbmodder_newlapp | ~ping |
| 07:19.18 | ibot | pong |
| 12:04.35 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@cobra.mcnabbs.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 12:27.47 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch@66.239.25.67.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 12:31.49 | *** join/#utah herlo (n=herlo@69-212-171-162.ded.ameritech.net) |
| 12:44.33 | goozbach | Jayce^: levi_home I'll blame you if I get fired |
| 12:44.50 | goozbach | that stupid url got caught by the content filter |
| 12:44.54 | goozbach | opps |
| 12:44.59 | goozbach | aparently NSFW |
| 13:13.49 | herlo | what's nsfw? |
| 13:15.14 | goozbach | link Jayce^ posted last night |
| 13:15.23 | goozbach | -urls |
| 13:15.24 | brac | [2006/07/21 00:25:02] <tene> http://www.nightmare.com/medusa/ |
| 13:15.24 | brac | [2006/07/20 23:52:02] <levi_home> http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?LanguageAuthorBeardPattern |
| 13:15.24 | brac | [2006/07/20 23:49:10] <Jayce> http://www.thornyscrate.com/~wes/roleplaying/inspirational2/ignorance.jpg |
| 13:15.24 | brac | [2006/07/20 23:21:54] <levi_home> http://www.thornyscrate.com/~wes/roleplaying/inspirational2/ |
| 13:22.04 | goozbach | perhaps it was the word bewbs |
| 13:23.04 | goozbach | bewbs? |
| 13:23.43 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@64-205-130-223.client.dsl.net) |
| 13:28.52 | goozbach | speaking of bewbs... |
| 13:29.05 | sjansen | What?! Kubuntu users don't have to deal with a hideous brown desktop? That's not fair! |
| 13:30.47 | *** join/#utah RyanE (i=Piadas@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 13:30.54 | goozbach | sjansen: jpegs? |
| 13:32.44 | sjansen | http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=703&slide=4&title=kubuntu+6.10+knot-1+screenshots |
| 13:32.57 | sjansen | http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=702&slide=4&title=ubuntu+6.10+knot-1+screenshots |
| 13:35.47 | goozbach | I saw something like that ubuntu desktop once... it involved about a pound and a half of cherries and some bad fish. |
| 13:42.47 | herlo | sjansen is just a big whiner |
| 13:44.49 | *** join/#utah RyanE_ (i=Piadas@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 13:44.57 | herlo | sjansen: I believe that's a KDE desktop you see there, maybe you should consider that before wimpering on... |
| 13:45.09 | herlo | s/wimpering/whimpering |
| 13:46.17 | herlo | sjansen: oh look, themes!! http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/original.php?release=702&slide=22 |
| 13:48.06 | sjansen | herlo: I know. I've got Ubuntu on my desktop. But it takes a fair amount of tweakage to get rid of all the ugly brown. |
| 13:48.31 | herlo | ~smack sjansen for saying brown is ugly. I like you Ubuntu theme, good theme |
| 13:48.35 | ibot | ACTION smacks sjansen for saying brown is ugly. I like you Ubuntu theme, good theme upside the head. |
| 13:50.59 | sjansen | You have to change the metacity theme, the gkt theme, the desktop image, the gdm theme, and gdm's background color. |
| 13:51.30 | sjansen | Oh, and you'll probably want to replace the login splash screen too. |
| 13:51.53 | herlo | sjansen: I like the brown theme, its very....earthy |
| 13:52.22 | goozbach | if by earthy you mean poopy, yes. |
| 13:52.24 | sjansen | The brown theme is very human, as in what you'd find in the diaper of a human baby. |
| 13:53.16 | goozbach | hmm what else is brown... |
| 13:53.23 | herlo | I think brown is a very nice color, just because its also the color of excrement... |
| 13:53.23 | goozbach | ? |
| 13:53.29 | herlo | goozbach: dirt |
| 13:53.33 | herlo | thus, earthy |
| 13:53.36 | goozbach | ohh dog poop |
| 13:53.48 | goozbach | and hmm... |
| 13:53.49 | herlo | again, poop referenced. Lets start a tally |
| 13:53.58 | goozbach | poop again |
| 13:54.12 | goozbach | and what sits on the dirt? |
| 13:54.15 | goozbach | poop |
| 13:55.24 | herlo | that's um...at least 6 references to brown smelly stuff in the last 45 seconds |
| 13:55.28 | herlo | you guys need help |
| 13:56.04 | goozbach | cow manure... |
| 13:56.11 | goozbach | also known as poop |
| 13:56.25 | goozbach | course it kinda starts out greenish brown |
| 13:57.17 | herlo | ~kill goozbach |
| 13:57.18 | ibot | ACTION shoots a super-inverse quark gun at goozbach |
| 13:57.23 | sjansen | Tan is nice. They could have picked a nice tan instead. That's earthy. |
| 13:58.02 | sjansen | Instead they chose poop. Light colored baby diarhea, with dark highlight of more mature adult fecal matter. |
| 13:59.09 | goozbach | sjansen hasn't been around babies much |
| 13:59.23 | goozbach | baby poop is consistintly dark |
| 13:59.44 | goozbach | when it's light, baby is sick or malnurished |
| 14:01.06 | sjansen | Interesting. But I still find it hideous. |
| 14:01.40 | goozbach | brown=poop |
| 14:01.46 | goozbach | tan=earthy |
| 14:01.53 | goozbach | heck, even green can be earthy |
| 14:02.10 | goozbach | it's poopy |
| 14:02.49 | goozbach | my caffiene intake has probally tripled since GuruLabs |
| 14:03.01 | goozbach | I don't think thats good for my heart |
| 14:04.46 | goozbach | you know what farts are? |
| 14:04.51 | goozbach | poop in particle form |
| 14:05.21 | goozbach | in suspension in air |
| 14:05.42 | herlo | I more or less prompted that grossness |
| 14:10.21 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@64.72.210.10) |
| 14:11.23 | goozbach | one week straight now |
| 14:11.37 | goozbach | this mirror has been syncing for one week straight |
| 14:28.06 | tensai | what kind of mirror? |
| 14:29.24 | Supaplex | silver! |
| 14:39.42 | goozbach | FC |
| 14:48.42 | *** join/#utah graphyx (n=mkling@24.144.57.161) |
| 15:00.14 | tensai | goozbach: FC, what's that? what is it mirroring? |
| 15:00.40 | goozbach | fedora core |
| 15:00.53 | goozbach | I'm syncing a Fedora Core mirror for internal use |
| 15:00.59 | goozbach | s/syncing/rsyncing/ |
| 15:01.00 | Jayce^ | levi, that inspirational link, that still working fo you? |
| 15:01.09 | Jayce^ | I'm getting permission errors now |
| 15:01.16 | herlo | ~links |
| 15:01.17 | ibot | Lynx-like text WWW browser. URL: http://artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~mikulas/links/ |
| 15:01.21 | brac | [Links home page] |
| 15:01.27 | herlo | ~url |
| 15:01.29 | ibot | from memory, url is (Universal Resource Locator) This is what is used to give Web addresses for HTML, VRML, WAV and other files. It simply contains the Internet name of the machine containing the data and the path to the file. Much like the UNC, except specifically for the Internet. The address also includes what protocol should be used. |
| 15:01.40 | herlo | -urls |
| 15:01.40 | brac | [2006/07/21 09:01:21] <ibot> http://artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~mikulas/links/ |
| 15:01.41 | brac | [2006/07/21 07:46:18] <herlo> http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/original.php?release=702&slide=22 |
| 15:01.41 | brac | [2006/07/21 07:32:58] <sjansen> http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=702&slide=4&title=ubuntu+6.10+knot-1+screenshots |
| 15:01.41 | brac | [2006/07/21 07:32:47] <sjansen> http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=703&slide=4&title=kubuntu+6.10+knot-1+screenshots |
| 15:02.19 | herlo | -urls 20 |
| 15:02.19 | brac | [2006/07/21 09:01:21] <ibot> http://artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~mikulas/links/ |
| 15:02.19 | brac | [2006/07/21 07:46:18] <herlo> http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/original.php?release=702&slide=22 |
| 15:02.19 | brac | [2006/07/21 07:32:58] <sjansen> http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=702&slide=4&title=ubuntu+6.10+knot-1+screenshots |
| 15:02.19 | brac | [2006/07/21 07:32:47] <sjansen> http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=703&slide=4&title=kubuntu+6.10+knot-1+screenshots |
| 15:02.21 | brac | [2006/07/21 00:25:02] <tene> http://www.nightmare.com/medusa/ |
| 15:02.21 | brac | [2006/07/20 23:52:02] <levi_home> http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?LanguageAuthorBeardPattern |
| 15:02.23 | brac | [2006/07/20 23:49:10] <Jayce> http://www.thornyscrate.com/~wes/roleplaying/inspirational2/ignorance.jpg |
| 15:02.25 | brac | [2006/07/20 23:21:54] <levi_home> http://www.thornyscrate.com/~wes/roleplaying/inspirational2/ |
| 15:02.27 | brac | [2006/07/20 22:16:52] <levi_home> http://www.eve-online.com/faq/faq_07.asp |
| 15:02.29 | brac | [2006/07/20 22:07:26] <levi_home> http://harkal.sylphis3d.com/2005/08/10/multithreaded-game-scripting-with-stackless-python/ |
| 15:11.30 | sjansen | JohnMcCarthy (LispLanguage): spectacular beard. Language a commercial failure but successful as a fetish. |
| 15:14.27 | tensai | goozbach: ah, rsync. that's what I was getting at. just wondered what the sync technology was. |
| 15:18.48 | herlo | goozbach: sjansen: apparently at least 235 people agree with you regarding the color of Ubuntu: http://digg.com/linux_unix/Down_with_Brown_-_Changing_Login_Splash_Screen_on_Ubuntu_Dapper_Drake |
| 15:19.38 | goozbach | thornyscrate |
| 15:19.52 | Jayce^ | it's not working for me today (at least at work) |
| 15:19.54 | herlo | goozbach: none of those appear to work for me. I get, permission denied. |
| 15:20.15 | Jayce^ | I found the forum thread he referred to, but that's 300+ pages of forum, with random repeats and such |
| 15:20.27 | herlo | or rather "Forbidden", my mistake |
| 15:20.33 | Jayce^ | I came so close to doing a wget mirror last night, I should have |
| 15:20.49 | herlo | google will have a cache |
| 15:20.49 | sjansen | http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?CobolCausesBrainDamage |
| 15:20.52 | Jayce^ | maybe google or archive cache |
| 15:22.38 | herlo | http://blogonomicon.eponym.com/blog/_archives/2006/7/17/2134412.html |
| 15:23.29 | Jayce^ | yeah, shows the one and just links back |
| 15:24.26 | herlo | oh, that's just another I found... |
| 15:24.33 | goozbach | it worked on my treo this morning |
| 15:24.46 | Jayce^ | wonder if he went over bandwidth or something |
| 15:24.54 | *** part/#utah graphyx (n=mkling@24.144.57.161) |
| 15:24.55 | Jayce^ | must... finish...before... oscon.. |
| 15:25.04 | redbeard1 | sjansen: wait, so are you saying harleypig...? |
| 15:26.51 | herlo | http://www.aeropause.com/archives/dea.jpg |
| 15:31.43 | redbeard1 | "With no power comes no resposibility." |
| 15:31.52 | redbeard1 | words to live by |
| 15:34.57 | herlo | Possibly NSFW: http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/152/3740~Goals-Posters.jpg |
| 15:35.01 | sjansen | redbeard1: huh? |
| 15:35.15 | herlo | redbeard1: well said |
| 15:35.28 | redbeard1 | sjansen: you sent a link about how cobol causes brain damage. harleypig used to be a cobol programmer. |
| 15:36.10 | sjansen | ah, well, you know |
| 15:37.02 | sjansen | redbeard1: I disagree about your power and responsibility. I've worked for messed up orgs where responsibility without power was common. |
| 15:37.04 | *** join/#utah jakea (n=jakea@128.187.132.132) |
| 15:38.04 | macnewbold | I've never seen ibot come on to someone that strongly... |
| 15:38.12 | macnewbold | she must really like you, jakey |
| 15:38.16 | sjansen | "Do it the way I designed it, with the software I bought you, without the resources you claim you need. If things don't work, it's your fault." |
| 15:38.19 | redbeard1 | sjansen: that's just the tagline for the clerks 2 movie, which comes out today |
| 15:38.45 | jakea | the girls liked me a lot 10 years ago, but now that I married and 40 lbs heavier... |
| 15:39.08 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@thelances.net) |
| 15:39.34 | macnewbold | ibot's not into the whole "physical appearance" thing... it's all about personality |
| 15:42.00 | jakea | okay then, personality it is |
| 15:42.57 | rsimpkins | sjansen: I've seen that several times myself. It helps you appriciate being part of something that isn't that way. :) |
| 15:43.29 | sjansen | Have I mentioned how much I love my job? It's wonderful to be managed by geeks and have competent co-workers. |
| 15:44.58 | rsimpkins | sjansen: I feel the same way about mine. |
| 15:51.21 | herlo | sjansen thinks I am competent, that's a major step |
| 15:58.29 | jakea | sjansen, I dream of the day where EVERYONE at my job is competent |
| 15:59.17 | Supaplex | and customers are always polite and smart |
| 15:59.29 | findlay | ibot: am I competent? |
| 16:00.05 | jakea | customers are not smart |
| 16:00.32 | Supaplex | is there an echo in here? |
| 16:01.02 | jakea | when I worked at Lagoon, I believed at the gate there was something that happened that turned off people's brains before the walked on the park |
| 16:01.51 | findlay | probably |
| 16:02.02 | findlay | I remember resisting it several times |
| 16:02.07 | levi | Jayce^: I assume the guy ran out of bandwidth and shut permissions off. You can still get the index of the roleplaying directory. |
| 16:02.31 | findlay | and ultimately triumphing over the insidious device contrary to my sad counterparts |
| 16:03.16 | jakea | image this: Saturday, park is open from 10 am to after midnight. Jake goes to close the roller coaster. 30 seconds later, some people run up and beg him to let them ride |
| 16:03.43 | jakea | and the line they use: "We came all the way from Boise Idaho just to ride this ride" |
| 16:03.50 | Supaplex | hahaa |
| 16:04.15 | jakea | and Jake thinks: "and you waited until the park closes!?!?!? WTF?" |
| 16:05.22 | *** join/#utah vex (i=nwood@stutter.prohosting.com) |
| 16:05.54 | sjansen | What can you expect from people who grew up in or choose to live in Idaho? |
| 16:06.06 | levi | Heh. |
| 16:06.19 | levi | I used to hang out with some girls from Idaho when I was at BYU. |
| 16:06.43 | JoshH | sjansen: lots of people say the same thing about utahns, so it's all good |
| 16:07.05 | JoshH | utahns can only insult people from idaho, arkansas, etc |
| 16:07.17 | JoshH | but people from most other states can insult utahns |
| 16:07.24 | herlo | redbeard1: I like the strawberries and cheesecake wallpapers |
| 16:07.27 | levi | One was from a town a little bit on the other side of the border with Utah; I forget what it's called. She was insistent that Idaho was actually quite amazingly beautiful, and the best place you could possibly live. |
| 16:07.39 | redbeard1 | herlo: thanks man |
| 16:07.48 | JoshH | i would rather live in rural idaho than rural utah, no question |
| 16:07.49 | levi | I couldn't convince her otherwise, despite heroic effort. |
| 16:07.53 | JoshH | but i would rather live in slc than say, boise |
| 16:07.54 | herlo | redbeard1: can you make them in 1600x1200? |
| 16:08.01 | herlo | I wanna put it on my box |
| 16:08.03 | sjansen | She'd never seen Montana. Or Washington. Or the east coast. Or... well, you get my point. |
| 16:08.20 | levi | sjansen: Yeah, I think she'd only seen Idaho and Utah. |
| 16:08.27 | JoshH | ya, i love hearing people who have never left utah talk about how our mountains are the most beautiful thing the world |
| 16:08.37 | herlo | Idaho is quite beautiful, if you've never seen anywhere else |
| 16:08.38 | redbeard1 | herlo: probably. |
| 16:08.49 | herlo | redbeard1: k, just wonderin, let me know |
| 16:09.24 | levi | I really like the Utah mountains, and especially the proximity of the cities to the mountains, but I hold no illusion that they're actually the most beautiful mountains. |
| 16:09.49 | herlo | levi: they do hold their own compared to Colorado. |
| 16:09.52 | herlo | IMHO |
| 16:10.09 | redbeard1 | herlo: i'll post them that size shortly |
| 16:10.15 | JoshH | depends on the part of colorado you are talking about |
| 16:10.17 | levi | I'd say they're among the best, but not necessarily the top of the list. |
| 16:10.24 | JoshH | but i would say utah and colorado are pretty similar as far as mountain beauty |
| 16:10.25 | herlo | redbeard1: sweet, I will be changing soon then... |
| 16:11.02 | findlay | whatever |
| 16:11.10 | levi | What's really funny is people who have never left the east coast talking about their 'mountains'. |
| 16:11.10 | herlo | JoshH: agreed, Colorado just has a lot of mountains to compare too.. But they're all majestic, and that's what Utah mountains feel like to me |
| 16:11.12 | findlay | mountains are just a big pile of rocks and dirt |
| 16:11.33 | herlo | findlay: majestic |
| 16:11.49 | JoshH | the earth is just a big ball of dirt, rocks, and water |
| 16:11.54 | levi | findlay: You're just a big sack of water and carbon-based compounds. |
| 16:11.56 | herlo | levi: I always think that is funny, those are just hills |
| 16:12.16 | herlo | finlay: you're meat, essentially |
| 16:13.09 | sjansen | Frankly, I haven't yet seen mountains I like more than Utahs mountains. As a state, however, Montana is better looking. |
| 16:13.25 | findlay | I know because it took them 100 years to completely dig out this one mountain near my house and the piles of stuff left over was just a bunch of dirt |
| 16:13.38 | findlay | pretty boring experiment if you ask me |
| 16:13.58 | Jayce^ | sjansen, trying camping in the Olympics sometime.. you'll like them more |
| 16:14.03 | herlo | sjansen: Only been to Montana once, I flew into Kalispell, their mountains were gorgeous, but very white |
| 16:14.10 | findlay | although I guess they got a lot of copper silver and gold out of them |
| 16:15.04 | herlo | It was February I think, I took a bump for cash out of MN Airport and had to connect through there. It was somewhere I'd love to visit |
| 16:16.14 | levi | Mt. Rainier is pretty awesome, but it's so huge and the urban areas are so far away that you don't really get the constant 'mountains looming over you' feeling that you get on the Wasatch front. |
| 16:16.39 | herlo | levi: that's true |
| 16:17.01 | Jayce^ | levi, yeah Rainier is big, we could see it from my house, but that's the cascades (beautiful areas too), I lived just next to the olympics, different range |
| 16:17.20 | Jayce^ | I lived about as far from them as I live from timp now |
| 16:17.37 | levi | The looming feeling was a deeply-ingrained childhood memory from my few years growing up in Provo. |
| 16:18.15 | herlo | Jayce^: Isn't it nice to live near a place you take for granted? The mountains are so close, and yet I go up in them about once or twice a year. I really need to get out more! |
| 16:19.00 | jsmith | herlo: Buy me one too... |
| 16:19.00 | levi | Jayce^: My parents' home faces the Sound, so we can see some of the Olympic range from there. Houses block the view of Rainier, but we can see it while driving around town. |
| 16:19.18 | herlo | jsmith: hello there! |
| 16:19.29 | jsmith | Howdy... |
| 16:19.38 | herlo | jsmith, I already know which one I want, just need the $$$ |
| 16:19.55 | jsmith | Which one? |
| 16:20.12 | herlo | http://www.garmin.com/products/gpsmap60cx/ |
| 16:20.15 | herlo | jsmith, that one |
| 16:20.47 | jsmith | Hey, great minds think alike... that's the one I want too... |
| 16:20.48 | levi | The ninth anual ICFP programming contest has just begun! http://icfpcontest.org/index.shtml |
| 16:20.51 | brac | [ICFP Programming Contest, 2006] |
| 16:21.14 | redbeard1 | herlo: posted |
| 16:22.00 | herlo | redbeard1: thanx, heading there now |
| 16:23.51 | herlo | redbeard1: oh, I didn't notice the caption at the bottom... |
| 16:24.02 | redbeard1 | what caption? |
| 16:24.38 | herlo | redbeard1: blog.josephhall.com |
| 16:24.46 | herlo | bottom left... |
| 16:24.57 | redbeard1 | oh yeah. branding. |
| 16:25.00 | herlo | embedded in the pic, can't recall the real name |
| 16:25.01 | herlo | yeah, that |
| 16:25.11 | redbeard1 | i'm sneaky like that |
| 16:25.23 | herlo | yes, you are |
| 16:26.01 | sjansen | herlo: Agreed, I can't remember the last time I was up in the mountains. Maybe we should organize a camping trip. |
| 16:26.13 | goozbach | oh boy low country boil |
| 16:26.17 | goozbach | too much food |
| 16:26.41 | redbeard1 | sjansen: a geek camping trip? that kind of scares me |
| 16:27.01 | herlo | sjansen: that actually sound like a good idea |
| 16:27.25 | redbeard1 | seriously, it does sound like fun |
| 16:27.41 | goozbach | when/where |
| 16:27.42 | goozbach | ? |
| 16:27.48 | goozbach | I'd be all for that |
| 16:28.39 | redbeard1 | i can't wait for the campfire stories: "and when he checked his path, php wasn't even there anymore. it was like... it had never even been there." |
| 16:28.53 | sjansen | I'm booked for the next two weeks. I'd like to be around Aug. 19th. So which is better the 12th or 19th? |
| 16:29.54 | findlay | have any of you seen mecworks portable solar power array? |
| 16:29.55 | redbeard1 | actually, i think we have a church camping trip coming up on one of those weekends... the 19th, i think |
| 16:30.34 | herlo | August 9-11 I am off work, I could definitely do it then. I was going to have my son that weekend, but now that I am seeing him in LA for two weeks it could really happen |
| 16:30.51 | herlo | sjansen: I am booked for the same time frame |
| 16:31.42 | herlo | redbeard1: I like computer campfire stories. Recently, Kuyaedz, Otis, HoneyShiv and I went camping with my son. |
| 16:32.04 | herlo | We talked about Linux until 2am, then we went hiking the next day and talked all the way up and down the trail |
| 16:32.46 | herlo | Otis almost fainted, he tried to cross the river on the log, almost fell off, and pretty much decided he couldn't go further |
| 16:32.58 | sjansen | redbeard1, herlo: I was planning camping on the weekend, sounds like the 12th is best. Were you thinking during the week instead? I'm up for it, just need to schedule vacation time ASAP. |
| 16:33.47 | redbeard1 | sjansen: let me check my calendar, hang on |
| 16:33.48 | herlo | well, its either way. I have the time off. |
| 16:34.30 | findlay | what's the easiest way to get the size of an @array? |
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| 16:35.05 | herlo | hello |
| 16:35.08 | herlo | strange |
| 16:35.15 | redbeard1 | there's that wicked 7/10 split |
| 16:35.22 | findlay | ha |
| 16:35.24 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@64.205.130.223) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 16:36.06 | sjansen | That was odd, I was suddenly disconnected but no sign of a /kick |
| 16:36.18 | herlo | same here |
| 16:36.19 | findlay | sjansen: major wicked netsplit |
| 16:36.29 | findlay | it came out of nowhere |
| 16:36.37 | sjansen | findlay: What language? Perl? IIRC, casting to scalar will give you size. |
| 16:36.51 | findlay | sjansen: yes, just figured that out |
| 16:36.52 | redbeard1 | looks like i don't currently have anything on the 12th. the church campout is on the 19th, and while i wouldn't mind having an excuse to skip it (seeing as i don't want to go anyway), i should probably keep it open. |
| 16:36.56 | herlo | anyway, I was saying that I'd like to have a couple days of not camping too, so maybe like Thurs/Fri/Sat would work for me... |
| 16:43.43 | *** join/#utah ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 16:43.43 | *** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See openclue.org/ut/, sllug.org, uphpu.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com, utaug.org, ubuntu-utah.org | BBQ Sugarhouse Park, Saturday, 29th, 7:30pm |
| 16:43.43 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 16:43.57 | herlo | sjansen: ahh, who needs it |
| 16:44.07 | sjansen | ~welcome ibot |
| 16:44.09 | ibot | ibot, Sup yo? |
| 16:44.13 | Supaplex | I think our RIDE needs a seatbelt, not US :P |
| 16:44.17 | sjansen | ibot: Want to come camping with us? |
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| 16:46.18 | sjansen | redbeard1: So how does Aug 10-12 sound to you then? |
| 16:47.09 | redbeard1 | sjansen: i wouldn't be able to take time off work. i'd have to do a friday/saturday thing |
| 16:47.09 | herlo | yeah redbeard1? |
| 16:47.42 | redbeard1 | plus, i would still want to check with the wife |
| 16:47.54 | sjansen | wife, schmife |
| 16:47.56 | herlo | wife schmife, who need sem |
| 16:48.01 | herlo | lol |
| 16:48.10 | Jayce^ | labor day weekend, head down to goblin valley? |
| 16:48.12 | sjansen | Tell here your taking the whole month of August off to go walk about. |
| 16:48.29 | sjansen | When's labor day? |
| 16:48.35 | herlo | Jayce, isn't that in the southern part of the state, where its hot? |
| 16:48.42 | sjansen | redbeard1: Tell her you're taking the whole month of August off to go walk about. |
| 16:48.43 | Jayce^ | a bit, yeah, near moab |
| 16:48.53 | herlo | ugh |
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| 16:49.31 | Jayce^ | really spiffy place, great campground |
| 16:49.37 | sjansen | Jayce^: Assuming for a moment that I was willing to drive down to southern Utah, why would I want to? |
| 16:49.49 | *** join/#utah goozbach (n=goozbach@207.108.175.219) |
| 16:49.50 | Jayce^ | you ever seen the goblins? |
| 16:49.53 | sjansen | What does this spooky valley have to offer? |
| 16:50.19 | herlo | Jayce^: still too hot in September |
| 16:50.35 | redbeard1 | i dunno... i mean i'm sure the goblins are pretty and all, but i generally try to stay in cooler places during the summer |
| 16:50.39 | sjansen | http://www.americansouthwest.net/utah/goblin_valley/photographs.html <-- ICK!! |
| 16:50.46 | Jayce^ | http://www.stateparks.utah.gov/park_pages/scenicparkpage.php?id=gvsp |
| 16:50.48 | neybar | bryce canyon is really nice too. It is higher in elevation so it isn't quite so hot |
| 16:51.06 | Jayce^ | some fun caves in there |
| 16:51.17 | redbeard1 | ooh, i do like cakes |
| 16:51.42 | sjansen | Monday, September 4 -- Labor Day |
| 16:51.52 | *** join/#utah findlay (n=justin@67.137.24.115) |
| 16:52.14 | sjansen | Good point, whatever date we pick it has to work for redbeard1. |
| 16:52.38 | levi | sjansen: Southern Utah is the most freaky-cool amazing scenery ever. |
| 16:53.03 | neybar | so... whatcha planning? |
| 16:53.12 | *** join/#utah levi_home (n=levi@levi.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 16:53.20 | sjansen | I'll pack in flour, egs, etc. Jayce^ will pack in an oven & range, mixer, etc. herlo will make sure redbeard1 is "willing" to cook for us. |
| 16:53.26 | tensai | goblin valley in august. there's a great plan. did it once, don't recommend it. |
| 16:53.27 | herlo | levi: Its cool, but not til October |
| 16:53.30 | *** join/#utah atoponce (n=aaron@c-24-2-85-66.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 16:53.48 | Jayce^ | if we dont' go to far, /me has a trailer now :) |
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| 16:57.00 | sjansen | Jayce^: The Walmart parking lot off 2300 S in SLC isn't far.... |
| 16:58.16 | levi | Jayce^: I don't have a trailer, but I have a camper-top Eurovan. :) |
| 16:58.18 | redbeard1 | wait, did i just get roped into cooking? |
| 16:59.22 | Jayce^ | redbeard1, yes |
| 16:59.29 | Jayce^ | gotta use that cast iron sometime |
| 17:01.38 | sjansen | Sounds like Jayce^, redbeard1, herlo, and neybar are interested so far. |
| 17:02.32 | sjansen | I'm a little worried about picking someplace like bryce canyon labor day weekend because there might be lots of other people, but how does evyerone else feel? |
| 17:02.52 | redbeard1 | we're thinking labor day weekend now? |
| 17:03.01 | Jayce^ | we went to a nice place (for paintball) that is a bit closer, and had a lot of room |
| 17:03.24 | sjansen | That's what I'm asking. |
| 17:03.37 | Jayce^ | who's on first |
| 17:03.45 | sjansen | We could do both. I kinda want to get away sooner for a short period of time. |
| 17:04.14 | *** join/#utah vex` (i=nwood@stutter.prohosting.com) |
| 17:04.31 | redbeard1 | it might be easier to convince the wife to go on labor day weekend... i'm not too keen on going when there's usually lots of people tho |
| 17:04.34 | sjansen | There's a road from squaw peak to springville that runs along the back side of the mountain. There's some nice camping spots along it. |
| 17:04.52 | sjansen | But we'd need someone with a four wheel drive. |
| 17:05.15 | redbeard1 | sjansen: you don't think my ferolla could handle it? |
| 17:05.35 | sjansen | If we had a vehicle, we could get a small group and go back there Aug. 10-12. |
| 17:05.37 | Jayce^ | This place was just outside fairview... |
| 17:05.50 | Jayce^ | that's about 1:30 south of spanish fork maybe |
| 17:06.19 | sjansen | Then we could get a longer group together with trailers and vans and Jayce^'s shotgun collection for a geek camp out labor day weekend. |
| 17:06.43 | Jayce^ | http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=39.701772,-111.287556&spn=0.038499,0.078192&t=h&om=1 |
| 17:06.46 | redbeard1 | what day is labor day this year? |
| 17:06.59 | sjansen | redbeard1: How much do you love your ferolla? It could probably make it up, might not make it back... |
| 17:07.05 | sjansen | Monday, September 4 -- Labor Day |
| 17:07.44 | sjansen | Jayce^: looks nice |
| 17:07.56 | sjansen | When are you suggesting it for? |
| 17:08.31 | redbeard1 | that means the greek festival is sept 8-10 |
| 17:08.57 | sjansen | greek festival? |
| 17:09.16 | sjansen | Heh, I like it. We could hold a geek festival the week before the greek festival. |
| 17:09.18 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 17:09.23 | redbeard1 | sweet! |
| 17:09.25 | sjansen | I'm sure elg would love to join. |
| 17:09.26 | Jayce^ | sjansen, lots of aspen groves, with alpine meadows |
| 17:09.35 | redbeard1 | yeah, let's get elg on board too |
| 17:10.03 | sjansen | Jayce^: What's the road like? |
| 17:10.19 | herlo | sjansen: you don't need a 4WD for that road behind squaw peak |
| 17:10.24 | Jayce^ | from fairview, it's a steep grade, 2 lane, but good quality |
| 17:10.28 | herlo | I drove it in my Civic |
| 17:10.42 | Jayce^ | then entering the forest service area, is a very very good gravel road |
| 17:11.05 | sjansen | herlo: I've heard stories of people pulling it off in a civic. But when I went up, there were some monster pot holes once you got deep in. |
| 17:11.20 | Jayce^ | http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=39.701772,-111.287556&spn=0.038499,0.078192&t=h&om=1 |
| 17:11.27 | Jayce^ | that's a picture of the area |
| 17:11.42 | Jayce^ | http://halls.lug-nut.com/gallery/friends/Paintball/IMG_0899.JPG ditto |
| 17:14.38 | herlo | sjansen: the road gets bad near the end of the year, and depends on traffic, rain, etc... |
| 17:16.50 | sjansen | herlo: Want to risk it again in a few weeks? |
| 17:17.17 | herlo | sjansen: I can, but I do have a Truck you know |
| 17:17.51 | herlo | just, the 4WD isn't working, no A/C and it currently isn't registered. I should have enough time however to fix that before the trip |
| 17:18.55 | sjansen | You do? Perfect! |
| 17:19.33 | goozbach | geee |
| 17:19.42 | goozbach | I wish I was closer to you all |
| 17:19.49 | Jayce^ | -lart goozbach |
| 17:20.19 | sjansen | herlo: So does that mean we're a go? |
| 17:20.32 | herlo | sjansen: sure, what's the exact dates anyway |
| 17:20.33 | herlo | ? |
| 17:20.57 | Jayce^ | I can do labor day ,but I can't do mid-august probably |
| 17:20.57 | levi | redbeard1: Check out /these/ recipes: http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/sevenup2/index.html |
| 17:20.58 | sjansen | Thur. Aug 10 - Sat. Aug 12 |
| 17:21.08 | findlay | what's the cups port? |
| 17:21.10 | redbeard1 | looks like i'm good for labor day |
| 17:21.15 | sjansen | findlay: 631 |
| 17:21.22 | findlay | you'd think that it being so important it would be easier to find out |
| 17:21.39 | sjansen | Jayce^: Let's do the place you suggested for labor day. |
| 17:21.53 | herlo | what place did Jayce suggest?> |
| 17:21.54 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 17:21.54 | sjansen | Jayce^: What dates, exactly? |
| 17:22.27 | sjansen | 1.5 hours south of Spanish Fork --> http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=39.701772,-111.287556&spn=0.038499,0.078192&t=h&om=1 |
| 17:23.05 | herlo | So labor day weekend or mid august? |
| 17:23.13 | redbeard1 | levi: i like the ham basted in 7-up |
| 17:23.27 | levi | gash the fat! |
| 17:23.53 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | campout? |
| 17:23.56 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | I'm there! |
| 17:24.01 | goozbach | looks liket that motoviational posters link got dugg |
| 17:24.21 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | I am so sick of digg |
| 17:24.37 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | that Mormon one yesterday was my last straw |
| 17:24.41 | elg | ~digg maquis |
| 17:25.22 | redbeard1 | digg? i remember that site. haven't looked at it for a long, long time tho |
| 17:25.34 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | I think each Mormon topic all the ex-mormons and anti-mormons group together to write negative comments with no factual basis |
| 17:25.49 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | then everyone believes them |
| 17:25.58 | sjansen | herlo: Frankly, I don't know. You and I are the only one one's to commit to anything so far and we both chose the ealier date. |
| 17:26.02 | levi | I think I got the motivational posters link from reddit |
| 17:26.08 | findlay | yeah, those Mormosn they're so weird. They only wear white socks I've heard |
| 17:26.16 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | why don't we ever hear "anti-catholics" or "anti-protestants"? |
| 17:26.28 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | always has to be "anti-mormons" |
| 17:26.32 | goozbach | or anti-sciencetologist |
| 17:26.34 | sjansen | Because you're not listening. |
| 17:26.36 | goozbach | oh wait |
| 17:26.40 | levi | Jack Chick does have some anti-Catholic tracts. |
| 17:26.40 | redbeard1 | sjansen: i can commit to labor day, but august is kind of up in the air |
| 17:26.45 | Jayce^ | ditto |
| 17:26.47 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | goozbach: I've never even heard that before |
| 17:27.03 | sjansen | Swing by any heavily protestent area, and you'll hear plenty of anti-catholic sentiment. |
| 17:27.09 | findlay | ibot can be if you tell him |
| 17:27.11 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | levi: who's Jack Chick? |
| 17:27.18 | Jayce^ | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]}, you mean anti-scientologists? you gotta be kidding |
| 17:27.20 | herlo | sjansen: then we should just go, I have a couple other friends who I know would be interested as well (yes, I have friends outside #utah) and I think its a go... |
| 17:27.30 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | sjansen: yeah - guess so - just never heard the term, "anti-catholic" |
| 17:27.35 | levi | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]}: You are clearly not paying attention to the anti-religious propaganda that's in circulation. |
| 17:27.39 | sjansen | In strong catholic areas like Ireland, you'll hear anti-protestant stuff. |
| 17:27.51 | sjansen | Everybody loves to make fun of scientoligists. |
| 17:27.59 | sjansen | Everybody loves to make fun of Jehovah's Witnesses. |
| 17:27.59 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | Jayce^: I've heard lots of people make fun of the scientologists, but never anyone that actually tries to bring it down |
| 17:28.00 | levi | How about anti-Jew stuff? Anyone heard of that? |
| 17:28.25 | levi | Nah, it's just the Mormons that get picked on. |
| 17:28.31 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | levi: not any more - I hear more anti-mormon stuff than anti-jew these days |
| 17:28.39 | findlay | heh |
| 17:29.01 | sjansen | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]}: You're sensitized to it, and you're living in Utah. What do you expect? |
| 17:29.02 | Jayce^ | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]}, look up clambake and such then... there are *tons* |
| 17:29.29 | levi | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]}: Perhaps that is because you aren't paying attention to anything but anti-mormon literature. Being a Mormon yourself you are far more likely to come across anti-mormon literature, seeing as you're a target audience for it. |
| 17:29.50 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | sjansen: I heard more of it in Virginia while I was there |
| 17:30.44 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | levi: look at the number of anti-mormon articles on digg compared to anti-other religions. anti-mormon trumps them all |
| 17:30.50 | levi | One reason for lots of anti-Mormon literature is to counteract missionary efforts. Churches don't want to lose members of their congregations. |
| 17:31.42 | levi | Another reason is that Mormonism has a colorful past and non-standard doctrines. People have had thousands of years to get used to the weirdness in standard Christianity. |
| 17:32.01 | levi | Anyway, time to go get some lunch. |
| 17:32.12 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | I'm just tired of the anti-mormon sentiment on digg |
| 17:32.34 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | and the fact that 30%+ people won't vote for Mitt Romney just because he's mormon |
| 17:32.57 | findlay | I probably wouldn't vote for Romney Mormon or not |
| 17:33.17 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | findlay: but I imagine it's not because he's mormon, but rather because of the issues for you |
| 17:33.40 | findlay | besides I heard mormons embed songs backwards on their jello recepies |
| 17:33.51 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | findlay: shhh - don't tell anyone |
| 17:34.03 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | primary songs even |
| 17:34.18 | findlay | wait till the RIAA hears about it |
| 17:34.39 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | findlay: shhh - we really *own* the RIAA |
| 17:34.48 | findlay | I don't |
| 17:35.05 | findlay | I'll have nothing to do with those conniving scoundrels |
| 17:35.11 | sjansen | Isn't owning RIAA stock punishable with ex-communication? |
| 17:35.17 | findlay | ~nuke RIAA |
| 17:35.23 | ibot | ACTION prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at RIAA ... B☢☢M! |
| 17:35.38 | findlay | sjansen: I think you're right |
| 17:35.49 | sjansen | ~quote SCOX |
| 17:36.14 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | sjansen: if that were the case Orrin Hatch would be way excommunicated by now |
| 17:36.57 | maquis | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]}: true |
| 17:37.07 | maquis | although... i don't know that he owns stock |
| 17:37.09 | maquis | he's just paid off |
| 17:39.25 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:40.02 | maquis | could the extension of the vista release date have anything to do with the fact that various parts of m$'s antitrust settlement expire in 2007? |
| 17:40.38 | fungus | lol, I just saw the YouTube video about Mormon Theology as featured on digg. |
| 17:40.46 | fungus | It was hilarious. |
| 17:40.54 | sjansen | Man, I wish I'd shorted SCO's stock after the decision a couple weeks ago. |
| 17:41.12 | maquis | sjansen: yeah |
| 17:41.12 | maquis | although |
| 17:41.32 | maquis | i have to feel sorry for the people who still have that stock |
| 17:41.33 | fungus | I'm not even "mormon" and I know that it is so full of crap. |
| 17:42.00 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | fungus: as long as you take it with a grain of salt - yes, it's hilariouis, especially for Mormons |
| 17:42.39 | fungus | I was laughing through the whole thing. They had a tiny bit of truth in there, but the rest was total crap. |
| 17:43.19 | sjansen | Sorry? By _now_ they've got to know what they got themselves into. |
| 17:43.30 | fungus | I doubt it was meant to be taken seriously I am sure. |
| 17:43.38 | fungus | s/was/wasn't/ |
| 17:43.47 | fungus | s/wasn't/was/ |
| 17:43.50 | fungus | doh |
| 17:43.52 | findlay | freenode is freaking out |
| 17:44.02 | sjansen | ~freak out |
| 17:44.05 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | yeah - any truth is truth, *way* exagerated |
| 17:44.16 | maquis | sjansen: yeah... but maybe they missed the whole start of stuff |
| 17:44.27 | maquis | and by the time they realized what was going on, they were in the hole... |
| 17:44.40 | maquis | and decided to hold on in hopes that it might go up just a tiny bit |
| 17:44.44 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | fungus: I know for a fact protestant churches used to show that seriously to their members to turn them against the mormon missionaries |
| 17:45.00 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | there was a big thing about it in Houston when I was growing up |
| 17:45.10 | fungus | really? no way. it would take a complete *moron* to think that was accurate. |
| 17:45.19 | fungus | note moron, not mormon. :) |
| 17:45.23 | maquis | :) |
| 17:45.42 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | fungus: read the digg comments - several people even mention they remember it in their Sunday School :-) |
| 17:45.42 | elg | which one is it? godmakers? |
| 17:45.53 | maquis | fungus: i've known people whose church taught that if you accept Christ as your savior, you will be saved, unless you're mormon |
| 17:46.10 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | elg: I think so |
| 17:46.13 | *** join/#utah rsimpkins (n=rsimpkin@xen.ryansimpkins.com) |
| 17:46.20 | *** part/#utah rsimpkins (n=rsimpkin@xen.ryansimpkins.com) |
| 17:46.34 | fungus | I don't read more than a few comments on digg ever. they are just as bad as slashdot comments. |
| 17:47.00 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | fungus: probably worse - younger age group IMO |
| 17:47.02 | elg | not seen it but I've read or skimmed a book refuting it. some wild stuff, and yes it was (and maybe still is) a common thing for other churches to spoon feed their congregations |
| 17:47.07 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | or more immature, at least |
| 17:47.21 | elg | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]}: more immature than /. ? I guess everything really is relevant |
| 17:47.35 | elg | I've never held digg in any esteem |
| 17:47.42 | fungus | elg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7v_V8qSIIo |
| 17:50.52 | fungus | lol, south park version. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l63IiB2jGRo |
| 17:51.08 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | fungus: that one's my favorite |
| 17:54.21 | fungus | I love reading anti-mormon literature too. Their hilarious. |
| 17:54.32 | fungus | s/Their/They're/ |
| 17:56.16 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | it's even more hilarious that people actually believe that stuff |
| 17:56.34 | sjansen | *sigh* I hate it when airlines lie to me. I know my flight to Sacramento has open seats near the bulkhead, it just won't let me pick them. |
| 17:56.46 | JoshH | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]}: some of it is technically true, that's why people believe it |
| 17:56.58 | JoshH | not all of course, but some |
| 17:56.58 | sjansen | There's probably more open seats, but it doesn't think I deserve to see them. |
| 17:57.26 | *** join/#utah rsimpkins (n=rsimpkin@xen.ryansimpkins.com) |
| 17:57.42 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | JoshH: it's usually exageration upon truth, and misunderstandings of what mormons really believe |
| 17:57.43 | fungus | JoshH: you're right, but the crap they mix in is hysterical usually. |
| 17:57.52 | fungus | Ever seen Plan 10 from Outer Space? |
| 17:57.55 | JoshH | no |
| 17:58.40 | fungus | You can only find it at the Tower, but it is the truth about mormons. |
| 17:58.41 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | but yes, they'll often throw in a little truth here and there to get you to believe them, and it is funny |
| 17:58.59 | JoshH | i don't read a lot of "anti-mormon" stuff myself, but i do know that a lot of mormons refuse to read anything that paints their church in a "negative" light, especially concerning its early history |
| 17:59.33 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | ~lart Jayce^ |
| 17:59.36 | rsimpkins | Jayce^: Can I go in your luggage? |
| 17:59.37 | JoshH | and i know that historians who write stuff that the church doesn't like get excommunicated |
| 18:00.10 | findlay | sure |
| 18:00.10 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | JoshH: I like reading that stuff personally - it's usually to find out the real story behind it though |
| 18:00.39 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | At least the historical stuff |
| 18:00.42 | rsimpkins | The only way to know for sure what happened was to invent time travel and go back and watch. Or wait until you die to find out. |
| 18:01.17 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | the anti-mormon stuff like that video just makes no sense to watch - it contains no factual info mostly |
| 18:01.27 | rsimpkins | It's that whole dying thing that will eventually prove to you one way or antoher what is up. |
| 18:01.33 | JoshH | for example, the story about why joseph smith was thrown in jail |
| 18:01.44 | JoshH | mormons will tell you it's because people didn't like his polygamy |
| 18:01.58 | JoshH | non-mormons will tell you it's because he had a newspaper shut down, and pissed people off in other ways |
| 18:01.58 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | JoshH: which mormons? |
| 18:02.16 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | I know many Mormon texts that admit to that fact |
| 18:02.21 | JoshH | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]}: the ones who come to my house to try to convert me |
| 18:02.38 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | JoshH: they don't know what they're talking about then |
| 18:02.45 | JoshH | they also say that polygamy is the reason mormons were persecuted and driven westward |
| 18:02.53 | JoshH | when in reality, there are probably a lot of different reasons |
| 18:02.58 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | JoshH: again, which mormons? |
| 18:03.08 | elg | one of the biggest reasons was that they all voted the same |
| 18:03.13 | JoshH | anyway, all i'm saying is that anti-mormona and pro-mormon literature are both not exactly reliable |
| 18:03.40 | elg | a big group of people move into your area and they all vote the same (not how you vote) |
| 18:03.57 | rsimpkins | elg: That's a good idea. |
| 18:04.01 | elg | I figure that was probably one of the bigger reasons for unrest |
| 18:04.09 | elg | not the only of course |
| 18:04.25 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | elg: I think that was probably the biggest reason they were thrown out. |
| 18:04.29 | rsimpkins | Maybe the Mormons should go back to being nomadic. They can invade states and pass conservitive laws. Republicans all around. :) |
| 18:04.32 | JoshH | i've also heard he ripped off a bank in ohio or something, and that's why they had to leave there, but i don't know if that's true or not |
| 18:04.36 | elg | add to the mix that the people already living there were frontier people |
| 18:04.43 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | polygamy was only a minor reason - they weren't being persecuted back then for that |
| 18:05.00 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | most of the polygamy persecution happened while they were in Utah |
| 18:05.26 | elg | JoshH: that doesn't sound feasible |
| 18:05.30 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | JoshH: a lot of those stories, the press, etc. are a lot of hearsay |
| 18:06.01 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | yes, Joseph Smith was accused of the press thing, but he was never prosecuted for it |
| 18:06.32 | JoshH | ah ok, he tried to found a bank in kirtland, ended up with a lot of debt, and took off |
| 18:06.35 | JoshH | according to this |
| 18:06.39 | JoshH | http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/josephsmithsbank.htm |
| 18:06.42 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | people at that time were finding any excuse they could to get rid of Joseph Smith, including the Lt. Governor |
| 18:07.19 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | much of it having to do with elg's reasons |
| 18:09.14 | JoshH | i think some mormons are too quick to dismiss anything that may make their church seem less "saintly" than they believe it to be as "anti-mormon", without thinking about how much truth there may be in it. but also, there are true anti-mormons out there will blindly believe anything bad about the church no matter how ridiculous. it goes both ways. |
| 18:09.41 | elg | sure |
| 18:10.33 | elg | but you have to agree it's pretty logical to take the word of the prosecuted over the word of the people issuing extermination orders |
| 18:10.43 | elg | s/prosecuted/persecuted/ |
| 18:10.47 | elg | when it comes down to taking someone's word |
| 18:11.11 | JoshH | ya |
| 18:11.26 | JoshH | people weren't as tolerant back then |
| 18:11.33 | JoshH | not that we are extremely tolerant today or anything |
| 18:11.44 | *** join/#utah macnewbol1 (n=mac@69.2.248.251) |
| 18:11.52 | elg | nor as honest |
| 18:11.59 | elg | not that we're extremely honest today either... |
| 18:12.00 | elg | :) |
| 18:12.07 | JoshH | heh true |
| 18:12.58 | maquis | how'd emcnabb lose op? |
| 18:13.11 | elg | poor sap |
| 18:13.36 | *** mode/#utah [+o elg] by ChanServ |
| 18:13.40 | *** mode/#utah [+o emcnabb] by elg |
| 18:14.03 | maquis | yay |
| 18:14.06 | elg | ~lart emcnabb |
| 18:16.12 | elg | ~squeeze emcnabb |
| 18:16.14 | ibot | ACTION squeezes the juice out of emcnabb until there just ain't nothin left |
| 18:20.15 | maquis | ~juice emcnabb |
| 18:33.01 | findlay | I blame freenode |
| 18:33.05 | findlay | and Canada |
| 18:33.30 | fungus | What's wrong with freenode? |
| 18:33.37 | findlay | don't know |
| 18:33.46 | fungus | I am not having any problems. |
| 18:33.57 | fungus | I think it is in your head. |
| 18:35.52 | findlay | probably |
| 18:39.59 | *** join/#utah JoeyDay|wgu (n=JoeyDay@205.124.151.254) |
| 18:45.50 | Supaplex | the definition of freenode not having any promlems implies it has to be hacked or go down atleast once every day or two. You know, like some other unnamed network... |
| 18:52.40 | findlay | Supaplex: didn't you get the memo? Freenode isn't cool anymore. All the cool kids just read digg |
| 19:04.02 | ScytheBlade1 | Hahaha @ this conversation |
| 19:04.06 | ScytheBlade1 | Anyone idle on DALNet? |
| 19:07.40 | sjansen | o/~ whistling, whistling, whistling in the dark ~/o |
| 19:09.39 | elg | tensai: do you greylist? |
| 19:10.59 | sjansen | greylisting++ |
| 19:11.50 | elg | i'm thinking of setting it up |
| 19:12.01 | elg | my only question is whether it will work/cause problems with relays |
| 19:12.03 | fungus | greylisting++ |
| 19:12.11 | elg | as in, tensai is a secondary mx |
| 19:12.13 | elg | for me |
| 19:12.45 | sjansen | http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00042Y5E6/sr=1-2/qid=1153509105/ref=pd_bbs_2/102-6628591-3179330?ie=UTF8&s=music |
| 19:13.09 | elg | will greylisting blindly accept anything coming through his relay, or conversely will his mta get told "come back later" and decide to not try and deliver _any_ mail for another hour? |
| 19:13.31 | sjansen | elg: I'm betting it depends on what you use to do the greylisting. |
| 19:14.03 | elg | well a greylisting mta says 4xx try again later after RCPT |
| 19:14.05 | fungus | elg, most greylisting implementations allow a custom whitelist |
| 19:14.22 | elg | fungus: sure, and most spammers use the secondary MXs |
| 19:14.35 | elg | so if I w hitelist tensai's machine, do spammers get a free ride? |
| 19:14.44 | sjansen | gotcha |
| 19:14.59 | fungus | yes |
| 19:15.10 | elg | well no, not as I read it |
| 19:15.11 | fungus | but greylisting your secondary mx is a bad idea. |
| 19:15.12 | sjansen | Thank you for asking in a public forum so that we can make fun of tensai if he isn't using greylisting. |
| 19:15.28 | elg | the greylist triple is ip,sender,receiver |
| 19:15.52 | elg | which is fine, it would work with a secondary mx |
| 19:16.07 | Supaplex | if all your servers use greylisting, then there's little issue to whitelist each other. |
| 19:16.10 | elg | but my concern is, will his secondary mx get a 4xx response for one triple, and then decide not to try to deliver all the queued mail |
| 19:16.14 | elg | that I might want in a timely manner |
| 19:16.30 | elg | Supaplex: which is why I asked tensai if he uses it :) |
| 19:17.02 | fungus | elg, what implementation are you talking about, that does this kind of triple greylisting? |
| 19:17.20 | elg | http://greylisting.org/articles/whitepaper.shtml |
| 19:17.35 | elg | The Greylisting method is very simple. It only looks at three pieces of information (which we will refer to as a "triplet" from now on) about any particular mail delivery attempt: |
| 19:17.51 | fungus | that is a whitepaper. |
| 19:17.59 | elg | that's great |
| 19:17.59 | fungus | Have you found an implementation |
| 19:18.07 | elg | i haven't looked for implementations yet |
| 19:18.23 | fungus | Most implementations use only the IP |
| 19:18.24 | elg | but I have no reason to believe there aren't any |
| 19:18.31 | fungus | which is sufficient for most people. |
| 19:18.40 | elg | no, not really |
| 19:19.10 | elg | i suppose it depends on your definition of sufficient |
| 19:19.15 | elg | but come on, it's not rocket science |
| 19:19.29 | sjansen | fungus: postgrey does. |
| 19:19.31 | elg | i could implement a greylisting thing in a day or two |
| 19:19.38 | elg | with the triplet approach |
| 19:19.55 | sjansen | elg: I recommend postgrey. It's worked reliably for me for more than a year. |
| 19:19.56 | elg | not that I would bother, but I'm sure somebody has |
| 19:20.07 | fungus | sjansen: I am using postgrey and it does not |
| 19:20.25 | *** join/#utah JoeyDay|wgu (n=JoeyDay@205.124.151.254) |
| 19:20.49 | Supaplex | iirc, the triplet is ip,from,to |
| 19:20.52 | sjansen | fungus: Are you basing that on a reading of the code, 'cause according to the site it does. |
| 19:20.54 | fungus | elg, I recommend postgrey too |
| 19:21.16 | elg | i'll keep that in mind |
| 19:21.23 | elg | but if it's not using a triplet I won't bother |
| 19:21.47 | elg | http://isg.ee.ethz.ch/tools/postgrey/ |
| 19:21.55 | elg | When a request for delivery of a mail is received by Postfix via SMTP, the triplet CLIENT_IP / SENDER / RECIPIENT is built." |
| 19:22.08 | sjansen | Based on what I've seen it does use a triple. I've had to wait for mail from a new sender but known IP. |
| 19:26.07 | elg | sweet. installed and working |
| 19:26.30 | elg | and joanna is doing the Good Thing |
| 19:26.56 | elg | sigh. now if I could just figure out how to get amavis to listen to my configuration preferences |
| 19:29.00 | Supaplex | ~lart amavis c/o elg |
| 19:30.17 | fungus | I stand corrected. postgrey does use a complete triplet, verified by my logs. |
| 19:30.31 | fungus | I was confusing it with the default greylist implementation that comes w/ postfix |
| 19:42.57 | harleypig | Cherry Chocoloate Fudge Flavored Caffeine Balls! http://www.thinkgeek.com/caffeine/candy/8472/?cpg=wnrss |
| 19:43.58 | harleypig | 40 mg of caffeine per ball |
| 19:46.38 | Supaplex | I first read that as 40 mb, then 40kg, then 40 mg. :P |
| 19:49.21 | xbmodder_newlapp | 40 mb of caffeine = lots |
| 19:49.54 | xbmodder_newlapp | 40kg = dang, that would be a lot to eat |
| 19:50.57 | elg | woohoo |
| 19:54.07 | levi | You would die long before you finished eating 40kg of caffeine. |
| 19:55.59 | *** join/#utah brando1 (n=brandon@blurry.skewedvision.com) |
| 19:58.19 | Supaplex | if you weigh more then 208kg, then you might actually live. http://physchem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/CA/caffeine.html |
| 19:59.15 | xbmodder_newlapp | Supaplex, if you weighed 208KG you'd get tired consuming 50 KG of caffiene. |
| 20:00.00 | Supaplex | I don't know anyone atleast 458lbs so it's a safe bet. :) |
| 20:00.56 | levi | Supaplex: If you were 208kg, the md50 would be 40 grams, not 40 kilograms. |
| 20:01.10 | Supaplex | oh yeah. |
| 20:01.37 | levi | No human could eat a kilogram of pure caffeine and live. |
| 20:01.42 | xbmodder_newlapp | lol |
| 20:02.01 | levi | Much less 40 kilograms. |
| 20:02.10 | tene | What if you balance it out with a depressant? |
| 20:02.12 | tene | >.> |
| 20:02.13 | xbmodder_newlapp | how much would a kilogram cost? |
| 20:02.27 | xbmodder_newlapp | tene, then you'll short circuit |
| 20:02.28 | Supaplex | your life ;) |
| 20:02.45 | xbmodder_newlapp | much like pouring dry and wet on your computer.. |
| 20:06.52 | levi | How do you pour an adjective? |
| 20:08.57 | Supaplex | If a mime falls over in a forest, does anyone care? |
| 20:10.13 | levi | http://ironpower.biz/products_caffeine_bulk.htm?gclid=CMvj1qHRo4YCFQxTCwodY1dHCw |
| 20:10.17 | xbmodder_newlapp | hm,.. |
| 20:10.45 | levi | A kilogram of caffeine for $274 |
| 20:10.58 | xbmodder_newlapp | ack |
| 20:11.58 | fungus | cool, I could sprinkle it on everything i eat/drink. |
| 20:12.18 | goozbach | or snort it |
| 20:12.21 | goozbach | ohh!!! |
| 20:12.22 | levi | Forget that thinkgeek stuff. Just take it straight. |
| 20:12.46 | fungus | oh yeah, I like your idea to snort it. |
| 20:13.00 | *** join/#utah JoeyDay|wgu_ (n=JoeyDay@205.124.151.254) |
| 20:13.53 | levi | Nah, do a caffeine suppository. :P |
| 20:14.20 | elg | sheesh, it's way too difficult to just say "I don't want quarantine" in amavis |
| 20:14.35 | Supaplex | quarantine => /dev/null |
| 20:15.05 | elg | that'd be fine if I could find the magic quarantine variable |
| 20:15.10 | elg | but there seems to be at least 12 |
| 20:15.26 | Supaplex | I'm so glad I'm not using it now. |
| 20:15.32 | Supaplex | do you use it for SA to? |
| 20:15.39 | elg | no, I don't do SA |
| 20:15.45 | elg | but I like amavis+clamav |
| 20:15.55 | Supaplex | what's amavis do that clamav doesn't? |
| 20:16.00 | elg | except that i don't want this quarantine trash |
| 20:16.01 | Supaplex | besides SA |
| 20:16.09 | elg | amavis uses clamav to scan for viruses |
| 20:16.12 | elg | and SA to scan for spam |
| 20:16.24 | Supaplex | ever try clamsmtp? |
| 20:16.25 | xbmodder_newlapp | buy a kilo, and get one free! |
| 20:16.26 | elg | it's basically the taskmaster for various virus/spam scanners |
| 20:16.32 | elg | no. |
| 20:16.44 | elg | and also does things like reject certain filetypes etc. |
| 20:16.49 | elg | but I just want to scan with clam |
| 20:17.44 | elg | so why should I try clamsmtp instead of figuring out how to get amavis to not quarantine? |
| 20:18.09 | Supaplex | it does one job. *shrug* |
| 20:18.43 | tene | elg: because your yak has too much hair. |
| 20:18.43 | elg | that's a good start |
| 20:18.59 | elg | but is it a five-minute job, or does it take 3 hours? |
| 20:19.12 | Supaplex | it took me about 5 minutes. |
| 20:19.43 | Supaplex | works great on bsd or linux. haven't tried any other platform with it. |
| 20:19.55 | elg | i can't figure out why anyone would want to quarantine viruses |
| 20:20.05 | elg | unless they wanted to do experiments with the captured viruses |
| 20:20.25 | Supaplex | to reclaim false positives? |
| 20:21.00 | Supaplex | when I had amavis, I had a daily cronjob nuke anything older then a few days in its quarantine. |
| 20:22.01 | xbmodder_newlapp | Supaplex, tmpwatch? |
| 20:22.16 | Supaplex | hand crafted find |
| 20:32.51 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch@66.239.25.67.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 20:35.18 | brando1 | anyone worked on sgi enough to know if .tardists are the common(only?) package formats it uses? |
| 20:39.41 | levi | elg: Seen this HashLife thing? It's way cool: http://www.ddj.com/dept/ai/184406478 |
| 20:44.16 | *** join/#utah nick125_lappy (n=nick@dsl093-220-003.abq1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 20:46.21 | levi | Everyone else who's interested in programming should look at it, too. |
| 20:47.19 | levi | It's a super-slick algorithm for running simulations of Conway's Game of Life. |
| 20:48.13 | elg | interesting |
| 20:49.44 | levi | It calculates recursively on a canonicalized quad-tree with memoization. |
| 20:49.59 | elg | hm, the game of life could be a fun project for my class, if I give them a UI lib |
| 20:50.14 | levi | Yeah, it could be. |
| 20:51.01 | levi | It would definitely be challenging for beginning programmers, though. Even with the naive approach. |
| 20:53.26 | levi | Perhaps you could give them some design hints. |
| 20:53.40 | levi | I guess you probably have a decent feel for what they're capable of, though. |
| 20:56.06 | levi | It would be interesting to write a bunch of different approaches to solving it, from the straightforward to the highly advanced ones such as HashLife. |
| 21:02.03 | tene | I saw a bf implementation once. |
| 21:02.06 | tene | That was interesting. |
| 21:02.12 | levi | Life in bf? |
| 21:02.36 | levi | I wonder if it was hand-coded, or translated from another language. |
| 21:10.55 | elg | what the heck. now for no apparent reason it seems procmail isn't being run |
| 21:10.59 | elg | or isn't being run as the user |
| 21:11.49 | elg | levi: I think I might make it an option for the final project |
| 21:12.03 | elg | I know some could do it, but some would have a hard time with the matrix nature |
| 21:12.15 | elg | two-dimensional arrays and all that |
| 21:12.46 | elg | if they grok arrays it's not hard, though |
| 21:14.18 | *** join/#utah bonez39 (n=bonez@drjones.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 21:17.27 | levi | elg: Did you see my earlier quote on C++ by Guy Steele? |
| 21:17.35 | elg | i don't remember any |
| 21:17.44 | tene | I saw it. |
| 21:17.48 | tene | But I'm not elg. |
| 21:17.49 | elg | levi: were you here for my summation rant yesterday? |
| 21:18.03 | levi | I don't think so. |
| 21:18.09 | tene | I was. |
| 21:18.11 | tene | But I'm not levi. |
| 21:18.22 | elg | tene is omninick |
| 21:18.31 | tene | Well, I'm a bot. |
| 21:18.36 | elg | not so much rant, anyway... |
| 21:18.49 | elg | one student had a really really hard time with doing a summation |
| 21:19.09 | elg | just could not grasp totalpoints = totalpoints + points*hours; |
| 21:19.17 | elg | kept wanting to do totalpoints = points*hours; |
| 21:19.29 | elg | ( http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~hfugal/cs167/labs/lab3.html ) |
| 21:19.38 | elg | so I made a remedial lab |
| 21:19.38 | elg | http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~hfugal/cs167/labs/lab4.html |
| 21:20.02 | levi | "As for C++--well, it reminds me of the Soviet-era labor joke: "They pretend to pay us, and we pretend to work." C++ pretends to provide an object-oriented data model, C++ programmers pretend to respect it, and everyone pretends that the code will work. The actual data model of C++ is exactly that of C, a single two-dimensional array of bits, eight by four billion, and all the syntactic sugar of C++ fundamentally cannot mask the gaping holes in its object model le |
| 21:20.02 | levi | ft by the cast operator and unconstrained address arithmetic." |
| 21:20.33 | elg | :) |
| 21:20.41 | elg | do you have a url? |
| 21:21.03 | levi | It's part of this essay: http://www.dreamsongs.com/ObjectsHaveNotFailedNarr.html |
| 21:21.32 | levi | It's on the website of Richard Gabriel, who has lots of interesting things to say himself. |
| 21:22.08 | levi | He wrote the 'Worse is Better' essay, for example. |
| 21:22.27 | levi | Also a book on Patterns. |
| 21:25.29 | *** join/#utah Tene (n=tene@poipu/supporter/slacker/tene) |
| 21:27.26 | *** join/#utah Tene (n=tene@poipu/supporter/slacker/tene) |
| 21:28.03 | levi | I fear for the person who needed lab4 when they try to write a Life simulator. :) |
| 21:28.32 | jsmith | Yeah, no kidding... |
| 21:29.50 | elg | well it would be at the end |
| 21:30.15 | elg | but yeah |
| 21:30.54 | elg | -lart postfi |
| 21:30.56 | elg | x |
| 21:31.12 | elg | stupid thing. why is it not using procmail some of the time? |
| 21:31.17 | jsmith | Where's brac, anyway? |
| 21:32.27 | *** join/#utah brac (n=rbot@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 21:32.35 | elg | he's a bit fragile these days |
| 21:32.39 | elg | dies when someone does this |
| 21:32.42 | elg | "hello" |
| 21:32.54 | elg | (something that starts with a quote) |
| 21:33.13 | elg | -lart brac |
| 21:33.16 | elg | or so I thought |
| 21:33.22 | elg | " |
| 21:33.28 | Tene | -lart brac |
| 21:33.43 | elg | hey |
| 21:33.47 | elg | no fair |
| 21:33.57 | nick125_lappy | lol |
| 21:34.00 | Tene | What's unfair? |
| 21:34.07 | *** join/#utah brac (n=rbot@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 21:34.09 | jsmith | There he died... |
| 21:34.10 | elg | oops |
| 21:34.12 | jsmith | And now he's back |
| 21:34.15 | elg | that was a stray ctrl-c |
| 21:34.16 | elg | :) |
| 21:34.19 | Tene | -lart brac |
| 21:34.28 | elg | -lart brac |
| 21:34.33 | Tene | hehe |
| 21:34.40 | jsmith | -lart larts |
| 21:35.07 | jsmith | Ah, nothing like a good ol' clue-by-four to make my day... |
| 21:40.06 | *** join/#utah vex (i=nwood@stutter.prohosting.com) |
| 21:40.50 | levi | Here's the abstract for Gosper's original paper on hashlife: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TVK-46JH274-76&_coverDate=01%2F31%2F1984&_alid=427165385&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_qd=1&_cdi=5537&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=3b681ec1e66ffda16140f5d3ffe05b54 |
| 21:40.52 | brac | [ScienceDirect - Physica D: Nonlinear Phenomena : |
| 21:40.52 | brac | Exploiting regularities in large cellular spaces] |
| 21:41.07 | levi | Of course, the pdf costs $30. :/ |
| 21:44.09 | levi | Research journal paywalls suck. |
| 21:47.27 | *** join/#utah herlo1 (n=upirc@h460787be.area7.spcsdns.net) |
| 21:48.53 | levi | Looks like BYU carries Physica D, though... |
| 21:52.28 | herlo1 | levi: u are such a geek |
| 21:53.41 | levi | herlo1: C'mon, this is cool stuff. And Bill Gosper is a genius, and one of the founders of hackerdom. |
| 21:55.29 | herlo1 | levi: I honestly could use more references to geekdom |
| 21:55.34 | levi | Any current BYU students around? |
| 21:55.58 | levi | I'm curious if you could get online access to the journal articles via the library website. |
| 21:56.13 | herlo1 | levi: BYU students can't be current |
| 21:58.34 | levi | Wow, the whole journal issue is full of cellular automata articles. |
| 21:59.47 | herlo1 | levi: I think you should actually be able get access without having a student help you |
| 22:00.26 | herlo1 | I recall being able to check stuff out I wanted with little more than my ID...of course that was several years |
| 22:01.02 | levi | Well, if I actually went to the library, I probably could. |
| 22:01.39 | levi | If someone with a current BYU id could log on, I believe they could access pdfs. |
| 22:03.42 | levi | I also wonder if BYU campus networks have access to the ACM digital library. |
| 22:03.57 | levi | I'm always wanting to download stuff from there. |
| 22:04.42 | elg | wow, the game of life is turing complete |
| 22:05.25 | levi | elg: Did you see my blog entry on the WireWorld computer? |
| 22:05.36 | elg | i don't think so |
| 22:05.38 | elg | today? |
| 22:05.47 | levi | No, it's pretty old. But the most recent one. :) |
| 22:06.12 | levi | Also, the music video for The Postal Service - Such Great Heights is geeky-cool. |
| 22:37.06 | findlay | how do I find out what other hardlinks link to a particular file? |
| 22:42.49 | levi | With find -samefile perhaps? |
| 22:42.57 | findlay | yes |
| 22:43.23 | findlay | find /search/path -samefile the/file |
| 22:47.20 | levi | Well, if you knew, why'd you ask? ;) |
| 22:51.49 | goozbach | opinions: http://blog.friocorte.com/tmp-layout/ |
| 22:53.31 | levi | Looks okay, but layouts like that are horribly slow on Firefox. |
| 22:53.52 | elg | there's some red text overlapping some black text |
| 22:54.05 | elg | the top hex border loaded before the bottom one. it looked cooler before the bottom one loaded |
| 22:54.35 | levi | The footer isn't all the way at the bottom in Opera, and the scrolling text shows through the gap. |
| 22:55.12 | elg | and blue on green links... |
| 22:55.18 | findlay | levi: you just didn't answer quick enough |
| 22:55.31 | findlay | I had to resort to my own devices |
| 22:55.41 | levi | findlay: You didn't think before asking. |
| 22:56.13 | findlay | actually a wild google search brought up a find info page |
| 22:56.26 | findlay | then it all made sense |
| 22:56.41 | findlay | ~lart debian init scripts |
| 22:57.13 | findlay | no distro I've ever seen has an init system as clean as gentoo's |
| 22:57.20 | findlay | and debian's is the worst |
| 22:59.18 | *** part/#utah brando1 (n=brandon@blurry.skewedvision.com) |
| 23:01.26 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | goozbach: my recommendation - get rid of the fixed footer and put your nav links at the top or side |
| 23:01.43 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | gives you more room for other stuff down the road |
| 23:02.04 | m{b{2}|[^b{2}]} | also you'll run into fewer probs with cross-browser compatibility |
| 23:03.59 | *** join/#utah redbeard2 (n=redbeard@c-67-182-237-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 23:14.32 | harleypig | Does anyone remember the little sheep that you could download and let them run around on your windows? Is there a version for kde somewhere? |
| 23:14.40 | harleypig | lamor isn't cutting it. |
| 23:14.57 | harleypig | s/lamor/amor/ |
