| 00:18.02 | elg | sheesh. what good is chinese when you can't finish a plate? |
| 00:18.20 | maquis | elg: ?? |
| 00:18.50 | elg | http://hans.fugal.net/typo/articles/2006/07/03/shangri-la |
| 00:18.51 | brac | [Shangri La] |
| 00:19.05 | elg | I couldn't finish all my chinese |
| 00:19.09 | elg | :( |
| 00:19.22 | elg | at least I managed to eat all the meat. but I feel like thanksgiving |
| 00:21.44 | maquis | interesting |
| 00:27.38 | *** join/#utah Kuyaed1 (n=Kuyaedz@kuyaedz.fttp.xmission.com) |
| 00:32.34 | vontrapp | elg: sounds like good chinese to me |
| 00:46.36 | elg | -lart elg |
| 00:47.18 | elg | why do I tell qwest the truth? they asked what computers are using the connection and I said a desktop running linux and a laptop running OS X |
| 00:47.30 | elg | Why couldn't I just say "one windows XP desktop" like a normal linux geek? |
| 00:47.38 | elg | luckily I don't think it did any harm |
| 00:53.28 | nick125_lappy | lol |
| 00:57.29 | xbmodder_newlapp | lol |
| 01:06.58 | *** join/#utah graphyx (n=mkling@24.144.57.161) |
| 01:07.18 | graphyx | I want to have a program that will generate a word list for cracking. |
| 01:07.39 | graphyx | Is there a way to have the output of that program look like a file to another program without having to write it to disk first? |
| 01:07.51 | nick125_lappy | FUSE |
| 01:08.07 | graphyx | FUSE? |
| 01:08.37 | nick125_lappy | filesystem in userspace |
| 01:09.00 | tensai | graphyx: named pipes |
| 01:09.09 | graphyx | Ok cool. |
| 01:09.15 | graphyx | can you do that with perl? |
| 01:09.21 | nick125_lappy | FUSE is leeter and 1000 times more complex then needed :) |
| 01:09.36 | tensai | mkfifo /tmp/foo; echo foo >/tmp/foo & cat /tmp/foo |
| 01:10.03 | graphyx | is there any flow control? |
| 01:10.31 | graphyx | I am looking at using a wordlist as a starting point for alterations like upper/lowercase. |
| 01:10.35 | graphyx | changing letters for numbers. |
| 01:10.48 | tensai | not that I know of. not unless the program writing to the fifo does it. |
| 01:10.49 | graphyx | to put through a brute force password guesser for cracking a hash. |
| 01:11.07 | tensai | you can read the fifo just like you would a file though. so you can read a line, pause, read a line, pause, etc. |
| 01:11.15 | graphyx | Cause it has the potential to outstript the one that received it 1:100 |
| 01:11.55 | graphyx | So what you are saying is that I can do what I want, just make sure to limit how fast I put it in the fifo? |
| 01:12.13 | graphyx | I suppose that is doable by estimating how fast the cracker would pull the info. |
| 01:12.27 | tensai | well, maybe. not sure I understand why you want flow control. |
| 01:12.45 | tensai | how is it different from reading from stdin? |
| 01:13.18 | graphyx | tensai: I don't know. I am just asking. |
| 01:13.31 | graphyx | basically I have a list of words like moon. |
| 01:13.53 | tensai | try it with just a few words then. head /usr/share/dict/words >fifo |
| 01:14.01 | graphyx | And I want to have a program that would generate the following versions: moon, MOON, M00n, m00n. |
| 01:14.14 | graphyx | And have those be tried with the brute force guesser. |
| 01:14.31 | graphyx | which is called by passing it a filename for the ones to try. |
| 01:15.29 | graphyx | makes sense? |
| 01:15.33 | tensai | I would put a perl script between the source file and the guesser then. cat ${words} | perl make-variations.pl >fifo |
| 01:16.02 | graphyx | Ok. |
| 01:16.06 | graphyx | That is what I was thinking. |
| 01:16.22 | tensai | sounds like a concensus. maybe it'll work then :) |
| 01:16.23 | graphyx | when you pipe to a perl file how do you get the words in the program? |
| 01:16.31 | graphyx | I don't get that part. |
| 01:16.32 | tensai | shift |
| 01:16.38 | graphyx | But it does sound simple. |
| 01:17.01 | tensai | wait, shift is the cmd line. you have to read from stdin. |
| 01:17.12 | tensai | while ($_ = <STDIN>){ do_something; } |
| 01:17.18 | graphyx | really? |
| 01:17.21 | graphyx | That simple, eh? |
| 01:17.22 | graphyx | cool. |
| 01:17.29 | graphyx | I'll see what I can put together. |
| 01:17.44 | graphyx | Next I am considering doing a password generator based on character frequency. |
| 01:17.48 | graphyx | Well it is a long way off. |
| 01:17.59 | graphyx | But I thought it would lead to more efficient brute force password guessing. |
| 01:18.15 | graphyx | people use characater classes, why not character frequency. |
| 01:18.28 | graphyx | those have been recorded you know. |
| 01:19.00 | tensai | I'm not following your theory |
| 01:19.33 | tensai | like 'e' is the most common letter, so generate passwords with more e's? |
| 01:19.40 | graphyx | Not really. |
| 01:19.46 | graphyx | actually yes. |
| 01:20.02 | graphyx | http://www.romanosky.net/pres/text-passwords.pdf |
| 01:20.06 | goozbach | redbeard1: got your ears on? |
| 01:20.19 | graphyx | on there they have a frequency chart for character usage in passwords. |
| 01:20.47 | graphyx | So you try have a generator that goes through all words that contain the first most common letter of a specified length |
| 01:21.16 | graphyx | Once is it done with that one it can then do all possibilities of the next most frequent letter - the first one, etc.. |
| 01:21.32 | graphyx | it has a predictable progression |
| 01:21.41 | graphyx | it is of course a last resort technique. |
| 01:21.56 | graphyx | since using a dictionary attack is much more efficient. |
| 01:22.49 | graphyx | make sense? |
| 01:24.04 | tensai | at a high level. I couldn't even begin to implement it. |
| 01:24.36 | tensai | having seen a lot of customer passwords I will just confirm that the vast majority are words, and the a good chunk of those relate to the person somehow |
| 01:25.38 | graphyx | tensai: It would be simple. |
| 01:25.45 | tene | graphyx: try just reading from <> instead of <STDIN>, that way you can also pass filenames on the commandline to be read from |
| 01:26.37 | graphyx | Just take the list in order of the most frequent. and iterate like you would for aaaa - zzzz but instead of doing aaaa to zzzz do char[0]char[0]char[0]char[0] - char [-1]char [-1]char [-1]char [-1] |
| 01:26.39 | tensai | tene: say what? how does that work? |
| 01:26.40 | graphyx | know what I mean? |
| 01:26.57 | graphyx | tene: that would prevent needing the "cat" eh? |
| 01:27.15 | graphyx | tene: can you also do a cat or echo with that as well? |
| 01:27.48 | tensai | graphyx: stdin is stdin, whether it's cat, echo or < |
| 01:30.34 | tene | yeah. <> reads from stdin and any files listed on the commandline. |
| 01:31.10 | tensai | tene: so perl will open the files listed on the cmd line if it sees <>? |
| 01:31.18 | tene | yeah |
| 01:31.23 | tensai | interesting |
| 01:31.27 | tene | <> is magic. i'ts called the 'diamond' operator |
| 01:32.00 | graphyx | why? |
| 01:32.03 | graphyx | j/k. |
| 01:32.04 | tensai | I've had problems using while(<>){ foo; } before. IIRC it sometimes didn't read from stdin correctly. maybe that's related. |
| 01:32.11 | tene | when running perl on the commandline, look at the -n, -p, -i, -l, and -a |
| 01:32.33 | tensai | perl -lane is my swiss army knife |
| 01:32.38 | tene | -n is an automagic while(<>)yay, blood! |
| 01:32.39 | brac | but n is part of the incantation |
| 01:32.40 | tene | brb |
| 01:33.02 | tensai | brac: sod off |
| 01:33.11 | graphyx | =sod off |
| 01:33.13 | graphyx | -sod off |
| 01:34.15 | tene | I rubbed my nose and blood leaked out. |
| 01:35.08 | graphyx | don't do that/ |
| 01:35.10 | graphyx | ? |
| 01:35.32 | tene | I don't think I will, at least for a while. |
| 01:37.12 | graphyx | hmm... does perl do recursion well? |
| 01:37.48 | graphyx | actually nvm. |
| 01:37.56 | tene | yep, it does |
| 01:38.02 | graphyx | I remember that anything that is done by recursion can be done without it. |
| 01:38.32 | graphyx | wow.. glad to know I can still remember some of my coding stuff wihtout having really one any of it professionally. |
| 01:39.30 | graphyx | What is the best perl stuct to do a multiple lookup based off of a key? |
| 01:39.43 | tene | clarify 'multiple lookup'? |
| 01:39.44 | graphyx | for example a => a,A,@? |
| 01:40.03 | graphyx | if I see an a i would want to try a,A,@ as the output? |
| 01:40.09 | tene | a hash of lists |
| 01:40.54 | graphyx | so %hash = { a => (a,A,@) }? |
| 01:41.38 | tene | Yeah |
| 01:42.27 | tene | although %hash = { 'a' = qw/a A @/ }; would probably be better |
| 01:43.30 | graphyx | why would that help? just so you dont have to type a bunch of ,? |
| 01:44.32 | graphyx | does that require use CGI::qwlists? |
| 01:44.58 | tene | No, it's part of the language. |
| 01:45.21 | tene | Ideally you want to quote hash keys, and qw// is just so much more convenient. |
| 01:45.22 | maquis | goozbach: ping? |
| 01:45.34 | graphyx | ok. |
| 01:45.55 | graphyx | ahh.. so it would have had to been ("a","A","@") |
| 01:46.05 | graphyx | so instead of all the " and , you can use qw/ / |
| 01:47.59 | tene | Those need to be quoted. |
| 01:48.04 | tene | I believe. |
| 01:48.13 | tene | I'm unsure exactly what's allowed without 'use strict' |
| 01:48.27 | graphyx | I always put in use strict and use warnings. |
| 01:48.32 | graphyx | Just to make myself a better coder. |
| 01:48.38 | graphyx | since I am such a poor coder to start with. |
| 01:52.07 | graphyx | how would I do this. |
| 01:52.20 | graphyx | I want to do a foreach based off each element of a list returned from the hash. |
| 01:53.09 | graphyx | Would that be foreach $item (values %hash[0])? |
| 01:53.48 | graphyx | actually its the lists I am ont familiar with. I'll go google. |
| 01:53.49 | graphyx | Thanks. |
| 01:55.50 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 02:02.30 | graphyx | Reference found where even-sized list expected at ./varyword.pl line 6. |
| 02:02.34 | graphyx | that is the error for this line: |
| 02:03.08 | graphyx | nbm |
| 02:03.17 | tene | nbm? |
| 02:03.21 | graphyx | nvm |
| 02:03.26 | tene | kk |
| 02:03.35 | graphyx | I think I am doing the hash of lists wrong. |
| 02:04.09 | tene | probably |
| 02:04.11 | graphyx | I am assigning it my %s = { "a" => qw/a A/, "b" => qw/b B/} |
| 02:04.23 | tene | show me your loop |
| 02:04.23 | graphyx | Odd number of elements in anonymous hash at ./varyword.pl line 6. |
| 02:04.35 | graphyx | foreach my $opt (@{$subs{"a"}}) |
| 02:04.35 | graphyx | { |
| 02:04.35 | graphyx | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:04.35 | graphyx | } |
| 02:04.47 | graphyx | Just to sanity check my code. |
| 02:06.14 | elg | -lart tensai |
| 02:06.25 | graphyx | them? |
| 02:06.39 | graphyx | nvm. generic she/he/it |
| 02:07.03 | graphyx | -gender |
| 02:07.12 | xbmodder_newlapp | If you live outside of north America could you please tell me the telephone number of your local train station? |
| 02:07.21 | graphyx | 23 |
| 02:07.26 | tensai | 42 |
| 02:07.35 | xbmodder_newlapp | :-/ |
| 02:07.39 | tensai | 867-5309 |
| 02:10.21 | graphyx | http://pastebin.ca/85628 |
| 02:10.28 | graphyx | now it gives this error |
| 02:10.38 | graphyx | Reference found where even-sized list expected at ./varyword.pl line 6. |
| 02:12.41 | tene | 'kay, there are problems defining lists inside of a literal hash. |
| 02:12.55 | graphyx | ok. |
| 02:13.08 | tene | hmm... that doesn't quite work either... |
| 02:13.09 | graphyx | what portion am I doing wrong? |
| 02:13.32 | tene | I'm unsure. it doesn't work for me either. |
| 02:13.38 | graphyx | k |
| 02:13.44 | graphyx | http://www.wdvl.com/Authoring/Languages/Perl/PerlfortheWeb/hash_of_lists.html |
| 02:13.45 | brac | [WDVL: A Hash of Lists] |
| 02:13.49 | graphyx | is a refernce I am trying to use. |
| 02:14.59 | tene | okay, there we go |
| 02:16.02 | tene | http://allalone.org/hashoflists.pl |
| 02:16.52 | graphyx | ok |
| 02:23.46 | goozbach | maquis: pong |
| 02:32.46 | elg | so the dept defaults to csh |
| 02:33.13 | elg | should I have my students run chsh? |
| 02:35.31 | findlay | chsh? |
| 02:35.36 | findlay | how do you say that? |
| 02:35.41 | elg | to change the shell to bash |
| 02:35.43 | findlay | ~say chsh |
| 02:35.45 | ibot | chsh |
| 02:35.48 | findlay | ah |
| 02:35.59 | findlay | thanks ibot |
| 02:36.12 | findlay | that's a cool command |
| 02:36.26 | findlay | I wish I knew about it a long time ago |
| 02:42.43 | graphyx | I know I should have figured this out by now.. |
| 02:42.51 | graphyx | But I have a hash of arrays: my %test = ( |
| 02:42.52 | graphyx | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:42.52 | graphyx | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:42.52 | graphyx | ) |
| 02:43.02 | graphyx | how do I print out "A" from it? |
| 02:43.13 | tene | 'each' iterates through the hash elements |
| 02:43.26 | tene | returns a list of the key and the value |
| 02:43.50 | maquis | why does this stupid form think my email address is invalid? |
| 02:43.51 | graphyx | print $(test{"a"}[0])? |
| 02:43.52 | tene | then just do a map or a foreach on the list |
| 02:43.59 | tene | oh |
| 02:44.01 | tene | yeah |
| 02:44.05 | tene | that would work |
| 02:44.08 | tene | or [1] |
| 02:44.24 | graphyx | except it doesn't. |
| 02:44.35 | maquis | and why can't it stop telling me (it's told me at least 15 times so far... once when i entered it, once when i hit submit, and every time that my mouse went outside the window |
| 02:45.07 | tene | oh |
| 02:45.15 | maquis | apparently hitting enter to close the annoying message will also pop up a new copy of the message |
| 02:45.17 | tene | it's storing list references |
| 02:45.40 | graphyx | ok so how do I use list references? |
| 02:45.49 | tene | this is strange... |
| 02:46.47 | tene | wait |
| 02:46.53 | tene | why are those ()s in there? |
| 02:47.10 | tene | you just need "print $hash{'a'}[0];" |
| 02:47.12 | elg | anyone know how to make a really keen cheat sheet easily? |
| 02:47.27 | elg | or reference card, or whatever you want to call it |
| 02:48.10 | tene | pen + 3"x5" card |
| 02:48.12 | tene | ? |
| 02:48.18 | elg | pdf |
| 02:48.35 | graphyx | just be glad someone didn't pipe up Latex |
| 02:49.04 | tene | "latex" would be a good answer if they also linked a good documentclass |
| 02:50.14 | graphyx | well I am going to drop this for now. |
| 02:50.18 | graphyx | Thanks for the help. |
| 02:50.32 | elg | latex would be fine if there's a package/template/whatever that makes it straightforward |
| 02:51.26 | tene | elg: look around on http://refcards.com/ ? |
| 02:51.37 | tene | it won't load for me, but my net connection is falling apart lately. |
| 02:53.11 | elg | hey refcards.com is nifty |
| 02:54.49 | maquis | this is worse than pop-up ads |
| 02:56.35 | maquis | if i try to close the window causing the pop-ups, javascript captures it and pops up another box telling me to enter a valid email address |
| 02:57.02 | tene | maquis: use links, or, even better, netcat. |
| 02:58.17 | tene | dillo is also a nice alternative |
| 02:58.31 | *** join/#utah mheath_ (i=Mike@c-67-182-231-23.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 02:59.45 | maquis | tene: that'd be nice, but i'd like to make this go away for now |
| 02:59.56 | maquis | without killing all of firefox (since i need to keep the stuff that's in a few other windows |
| 03:00.44 | tene | Bah, who uses csh? |
| 03:00.57 | tene | Communists, that's who! |
| 03:03.51 | maquis | the other form at the same site doesn't mind my email address |
| 03:04.10 | tene | maquis: is there a way you could turn off javascript? |
| 03:04.19 | tene | If you turned javascript off, it wouldn't keep spawning windows. |
| 03:10.53 | maquis | i just sent a bug report to the webmaster of the site... |
| 03:11.01 | maquis | (at least that's where i think it went... hopefully) |
| 03:11.11 | mheath_ | oh no...tomorrow is gonna suck.... |
| 03:11.23 | tene | RETURNED MAIL: <your email address isn't valid> |
| 03:11.48 | maquis | the rest of the website doestn't appear to have a problem with my email address |
| 03:13.46 | maquis | ah... much better |
| 03:13.53 | maquis | kill is a great command |
| 03:14.07 | tene | yay! |
| 03:14.23 | tene | ibot: maquis is also a murder |
| 03:14.25 | ibot | ACTION breaks is also a murder just by looking in is also a murder's direction |
| 03:14.43 | tene | ~maquis foo |
| 03:14.44 | ibot | ACTION breaks foo just by looking in foo's direction |
| 03:14.47 | tene | o.O |
| 03:14.55 | tene | ibot: ibot ibot ibot ibot |
| 03:14.56 | ibot | extra, extra, read all about it, ibot ibot ibot ibot is bad |
| 03:15.44 | *** part/#utah herlo (n=clints@71-219-26-231.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 03:25.08 | findlay | haha |
| 03:25.40 | findlay | ibot: what is your favorite Haydn string Quartet? |
| 03:25.43 | ibot | findlay: what are you talking about? |
| 03:27.07 | findlay | ibot: my favorite Haydn String quartet is op. 50 no. 1 in B-Dur |
| 03:27.09 | ibot | okay, findlay |
| 03:27.59 | findlay | ~LaRt SoMeThInG |
| 03:28.07 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | anyone have a clue why mailman won't execute it's cgi scripts in the cgi-bin dir? http://www.hainesfamily.org/mailman/listinfo |
| 03:28.21 | findlay | perms? |
| 03:28.21 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | I have Options ExecCGI set on that directory |
| 03:28.33 | findlay | mod_python? |
| 03:28.33 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | perms are a+rwxs ATM |
| 03:28.50 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | findlay: I have a feeling that may be it - how do I ensure mod_python is set up? |
| 03:28.58 | findlay | don't know |
| 03:29.06 | tene | cgi shouldn't use mod_python |
| 03:30.14 | findlay | tene: what do you mean by cgi? do you just mean cgi or (speedy_|fast_)cgi? |
| 03:30.59 | tene | I mean just cgi |
| 03:31.10 | tene | cgi just runs an executable |
| 03:31.27 | findlay | oh |
| 03:31.38 | tene | mod_python, mod_perl, etc. are different |
| 03:31.40 | findlay | and is that how mailman is set up? |
| 03:31.50 | tene | no clue. I've never touched mailman. |
| 03:32.18 | tensai | mailman is a cgi on my system |
| 03:32.31 | tensai | dunno if it can run under mod_python |
| 03:32.58 | findlay | so cgi is not the same thing as fast_cgi, etc.? |
| 03:33.00 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | yeah - it's a binary cgi of some sort |
| 03:33.14 | tene | fast_cgi does caching or some such |
| 03:33.58 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | It's really weird - I'm doing everything the docs say and that would seem like I should but it doesn't seem to see those files as executables |
| 03:34.04 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | it tries to read them for some reason |
| 03:34.05 | findlay | what vegetable do 7's remind you of? |
| 03:34.18 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | findlay: a carrot |
| 03:34.31 | findlay | chmod 7777 carrot.cgi |
| 03:35.09 | findlay | m{\w{5}_Jesse}: that sounds like an apache configure problem |
| 03:35.32 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | findlay: like what would I be missing? |
| 03:35.40 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | I have Options ExecCGI on the directory |
| 03:35.53 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | I have a ScriptAlias for /mailman |
| 03:36.00 | findlay | can you execute a simple hello_world.cgi script? |
| 03:36.17 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | yeah - the same domain is running mediawiki |
| 03:36.24 | findlay | hm |
| 03:36.42 | findlay | nothing interesting in the apache logs? |
| 03:36.58 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | nothing - acts like it's working as it should |
| 03:37.10 | findlay | what about when you start apache? |
| 03:38.09 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | I wonder if it's because mod_python is enabled |
| 03:38.46 | findlay | maybe |
| 03:39.02 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | nope - that wasn't it |
| 03:48.04 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | ~lart mailman for being such a pain to set up |
| 04:04.24 | elg | what's the kde programming editor? kate? |
| 04:09.49 | mheath_ | I'm convinced that the branding issue is a major problem preventing Windows users from switching to Linux. |
| 04:10.29 | mheath_ | Windows users run "the calculator". If they switch to linux and look for a calendar they find.....gcalc? what's that? |
| 04:10.37 | tensai | elg: vim |
| 04:10.40 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | I think it's more ability to do the same things on Linux as they do on Windows |
| 04:10.45 | elg | :) |
| 04:10.53 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | branding is part of it though |
| 04:11.17 | mheath_ | m{\w{5}_Jesse}, yes, but the main reason they have trouble doing the things they did is branding. |
| 04:11.26 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | yes, agreed |
| 04:11.33 | mheath_ | Say you've got a fresh install of a Linux distribution that doesn't have Open Office preinstalled |
| 04:11.40 | mheath_ | The user wants to install Open Office |
| 04:11.46 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | Developers write their apps for other developers usually when not working with a marketing team |
| 04:11.50 | mheath_ | er, wants to install "an office tool like Microsoft Word" |
| 04:12.36 | mheath_ | Where would a new user look that would lead them to finding Open Office? |
| 04:13.12 | mheath_ | "Microsoft Word" is a household name for computer users - they know thats what they need. Or they visit the computer store and look at the boxes, find what they need. |
| 04:14.25 | mheath_ | I know that if you search for "Linux office" on google, it will probably lead you to Open Office |
| 04:14.59 | mheath_ | But your average windows user isn't used to looking for software in this way |
| 04:15.59 | mheath_ | and they'd find the installation of open office (and the compilation of other programs) to be extremely complicated |
| 04:19.51 | mheath_ | I'm in favor of a Linux distribution that offers complete generic rebranding - "Calculator" rather than "gcalc", etc. and software tools that allow simple, straightforward searching and installation of software in a way thats comfortable for the average person. |
| 04:22.03 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | Fedora calls OpenOffice "Word Processor" and "Spreadsheet" |
| 04:22.19 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | They also have generic names for your default mail client and web browser |
| 04:22.34 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | "Mail" and "Web Browser" |
| 04:23.15 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | I think the money is in the software and support for the accessories you buy at the store though |
| 04:23.29 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | if those things start producing Linux install disks more people would use Linux |
| 04:24.06 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | People used Microsoft because it was bundled with the computer they bought and all the accessories they bought had Windows install disks |
| 04:24.48 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | that was part of Netscape's anti-trust case against them |
| 04:28.15 | *** join/#utah bigdog_ut (n=bigdog@207.135.132.13) |
| 04:30.59 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | anyone care to look at my httpd.conf and see if they can see why my mailman isn't executing? |
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| 04:58.29 | mheath_ | ok, time for sleep |
| 04:59.10 | *** join/#utah wps__ (n=wps@70.98.110.105) |
| 04:59.12 | maquis | the computer doesn't like me |
| 05:02.17 | maquis | help! vim is possessed! |
| 05:02.36 | mheath_ | I hate computers. |
| 05:02.46 | mheath_ | I enjoy them, but I hate the worlds overreliance on them.' |
| 05:03.05 | mheath_ | My dad was at the auto parts store, returning something...I was with him |
| 05:03.48 | mheath_ | I see 20 oz bottles of Pepsi, $1.49 each, in a fridge.....so I say "I'm grabbing a Pepsi.....keep the change" and toss $2 on the counter as we're leaving |
| 05:04.00 | mheath_ | "Wait! I need to scan that for our inventory system....." |
| 05:04.33 | findlay | ~possess vim |
| 05:04.47 | mheath_ | Question - how hard is it to run MS-DOS binaries in Linux? |
| 05:05.05 | levi_ | Depends on whether they're compatible with an emulator. |
| 05:05.20 | maquis | is there a good way to get out of vim when :q causes it to beep, go into insert mode, stick control characters into the file, and then go out of insert mode? |
| 05:05.31 | findlay | as hard as `wine Window\'s\ Exe-cute\ Able.exe` |
| 05:05.45 | maquis | (i'm really not joking when i say it's possessed) |
| 05:05.57 | findlay | maquis: do <ctrl>-] |
| 05:06.02 | mheath_ | I'm talking about a text, runs-in-MS-DOS 6.2 program. |
| 05:06.09 | mheath_ | Do you really need WINE for that? |
| 05:06.16 | maquis | findlay: that worked |
| 05:06.17 | findlay | I mean do <ctrl>-[ |
| 05:06.17 | maquis | thanks |
| 05:06.23 | findlay | I know |
| 05:06.30 | findlay | I'm a vim demigod |
| 05:06.32 | maquis | (well... that one worked because it got me out of the console |
| 05:06.32 | levi_ | You could use dosemu, qemu, or whatever. |
| 05:06.58 | maquis | doh |
| 05:07.00 | maquis | maybe it didn't |
| 05:07.19 | maquis | findlay: never mind... it decided not to work |
| 05:07.31 | mheath_ | Our computer system at Applebee's runs on a bunch of MS-DOS 6.2 thinclients, with some kind of server |
| 05:07.37 | findlay | <C>-[ ? |
| 05:08.03 | mheath_ | and interesting problem is that power flickers don't bring anything down, but cause certain thinclients to miss certain things |
| 05:08.28 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | cyclops? |
| 05:08.32 | maquis | findlay: doesn't work |
| 05:08.33 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | <C>-[ |
| 05:08.35 | mheath_ | Like, one screen will show some food, but another screen that should have it too doesn't show it. |
| 05:08.42 | maquis | findlay: literally, this thing is possessed |
| 05:08.56 | levi_ | maquis: That's vim for you. |
| 05:08.58 | maquis | ctrl-[ just makes it beep some more |
| 05:09.09 | maquis | levi_: vim isn't normally like this |
| 05:09.10 | levi_ | maquis: emacs is protected by Saint Ignucious. |
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| 05:09.56 | findlay | maquis: why are you so concerned about recovering your vim session? |
| 05:10.03 | maquis | findlay: i'm trying to quit it |
| 05:10.05 | findlay | just kill it and recover the .swp file |
| 05:10.09 | findlay | later |
| 05:10.12 | maquis | i finally just did a kill from another terminal... |
| 05:10.17 | maquis | but i don't understand why it was dying |
| 05:11.18 | findlay | maquis: if it makes you feel any better, the first time I used irssi I really screwed it up, got it into a way exceptionable state because I didn't realize that commands always began with / |
| 05:11.32 | findlay | all I could do is kill it externally (: |
| 05:11.43 | mheath_ | I really wish I could give some recommendations to the people who design our computer software |
| 05:11.52 | mheath_ | but that level of management is soooo far above me... |
| 05:11.55 | maquis | findlay: yes... but was it beeping and sticking control characters in the middle of files? |
| 05:12.01 | maquis | i didn't even do anything to it |
| 05:12.03 | mheath_ | The problems with working for an international corporaton =P |
| 05:12.10 | maquis | i started vim and opened the file |
| 05:12.35 | findlay | did a cosmic ray shower bombard your laptop at the precise moment? |
| 05:12.40 | maquis | and then tried to navigate, but it decided to switch to insert mode and beep and stick random things into the file when i hit j |
| 05:13.11 | findlay | maquis: sounds like you have vim spyware |
| 05:13.27 | maquis | ok |
| 05:13.28 | findlay | vim is really notorious for being a security hole like that |
| 05:13.35 | maquis | i opened vim, and it immediately started beeping |
| 05:13.40 | maquis | but only if i open it from that terminal |
| 05:13.47 | maquis | if i open it from a different terminal, it works fine |
| 05:13.54 | findlay | so your termcap or whatever is screwed up |
| 05:14.11 | findlay | maquis: before you close the terminal do `reset && vim` and see what that does |
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| 05:15.45 | findlay | maquis: any change? |
| 05:16.10 | maquis | nope |
| 05:16.14 | maquis | still beeping at me |
| 05:16.43 | levi_ | maquis: Time to reboot! |
| 05:16.52 | findlay | yeah |
| 05:17.03 | maquis | this is on a linode-ish thing that i just got set up today |
| 05:17.17 | draden | redbeard1 - you in the house? |
| 05:17.24 | levi_ | maquis: Can't you reboot those? |
| 05:17.34 | maquis | yeah |
| 05:17.43 | maquis | i just don't see why it's necessary |
| 05:17.45 | maquis | :( |
| 05:17.56 | levi_ | Perhaps it's not necessary, but it may be prudent. |
| 05:18.48 | maquis | i did the reset thing, and it's still beeping |
| 05:19.00 | levi_ | Hmm. |
| 05:19.14 | levi_ | Does emacs work? ;) |
| 05:19.29 | maquis | dunno... i'll try once i manage to kill vim again |
| 05:19.46 | levi_ | It's not shameful to be ambieditorous. |
| 05:20.18 | maquis | emacs isn't installed |
| 05:20.35 | levi_ | Now that's shameful. |
| 05:20.42 | maquis | hey |
| 05:20.49 | maquis | i've had this system for a grand total of 1 hour |
| 05:20.57 | maquis | i haven't even installed the essentials yet |
| 05:21.08 | maquis | looks like nano works fine |
| 05:21.28 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | you didn't run "yum install explorer" did you? |
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| 05:28.16 | maquis | m{\w{5}_Jesse}: no |
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| 13:32.52 | elg | -lart vontrapp1 |
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| 13:37.18 | redbeard1 | hey, does anyone know who this dreden fellow is that was looking for me last night? |
| 13:37.42 | redbeard1 | s/dreden/draden/ |
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| 14:05.02 | sjansen | draden, draden, draden, I made him out of clay |
| 14:05.13 | sjansen | draden, draden, draden, with my draden I will play |
| 14:05.24 | sjansen | redbeard1: sorry, no idea, but I couldn't resist |
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| 14:09.09 | ^Migs^ | did anyone see my question earlier? |
| 14:09.19 | sjansen | ~seen anyone |
| 14:09.24 | ibot | anyone <n=username@3E6B9A9A.rev.stofanet.dk> was last seen on IRC in channel #debian, 184d 16h 16m 44s ago, saying: '[necro], but I don't know actually.'. |
| 14:09.58 | sjansen | ^Migs^: Doesn't look like anyone's been around for quite some time. |
| 14:10.14 | resplin | ^Migs^: Perhaps you should repeat the question. |
| 14:10.18 | ^Migs^ | wrong channel, sorry |
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| 15:00.43 | elg | -lart vontrapp1 |
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| 15:18.33 | redbeard1 | food allergies suck |
| 15:18.52 | redbeard1 | wow. i didn't mean to offend him. |
| 15:20.09 | RyanE | yeah food allergies suck. My wife's a celiac. |
| 15:22.50 | redbeard1 | my friend ali, who might as well be a celiac, has a sister that just found out that she's has a whole new list of food allergies |
| 15:23.59 | RyanE | my sister-in-law who is visiting from Phoenix has to rotate her foods, she's got something that causes her to *create* allergies if she eats the same thing often enough. |
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| 15:24.22 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 15:24.43 | RyanE | and people with nut allergies, nuts or traces of nuts are in *so* many things... |
| 15:24.52 | RyanE | and they're so violent of an allergy, too. |
| 15:27.51 | redbeard1 | she can create allergies just by eating the same thing too often? |
| 15:27.55 | redbeard1 | that sucks |
| 15:27.57 | goozbach | redbeard1: it were me |
| 15:28.10 | goozbach | I found the answer to my question however |
| 15:28.13 | redbeard1 | goozbach: you were the dradel? |
| 15:28.15 | RyanE | she seems to think so, but she's had to find out by self-experimentation, since the doctors don't have a clue |
| 15:29.00 | goozbach | I wanted to know just HOW important the sugar in a cheesecake crust was |
| 15:29.17 | goozbach | I made a couple last night. |
| 15:29.23 | goozbach | out of Apple Jacks |
| 15:29.25 | redbeard1 | RyanE: i guess that makes sense. did you know that prolonged exposure to latex (such as food service gloves) can increase the chances of getting a latex allergy? |
| 15:29.28 | levi | Sugar is always important. ;) |
| 15:29.49 | elg | what's a dradel? |
| 15:30.01 | redbeard1 | goozbach: actually, it's fairly unimportant in cheesecake crust. i leave it out all the time. |
| 15:30.02 | goozbach | I was afraid it'd get TOO sweet |
| 15:30.16 | goozbach | but it didn't |
| 15:30.21 | goozbach | I cut down a bit |
| 15:30.30 | goozbach | but didn't omit it alltogheter |
| 15:30.34 | redbeard1 | just out of curiosity, what kind of cheesecake would you be making with applejacks for the crust? |
| 15:30.51 | RyanE | redbeard1: also, I've read somewhere that people who were not farm-raised tend to get more allergies, since our systems were not 'trained' to not be allergic to animals. |
| 15:31.09 | goozbach | redbeard1: just a strait-up normal cheesecake |
| 15:31.11 | redbeard1 | RyanE: weird. |
| 15:31.26 | goozbach | I can oly be adventrurious on one thing at a time |
| 15:31.32 | RyanE | the other problem with food allergies is that they're pretty hard to diagnose. |
| 15:32.29 | elg | RyanE: isn't that strange. on the one hand you get allergies by overexposure and on the other by underexposure |
| 15:33.09 | levi | redbeard1: Did you make any progress with the ice cream stabilizer understanding? |
| 15:33.20 | elg | RyanE: there's some wacko test that I don't know whether to believe that my wife takes my son to have done. that's how we figured he's supposedly allergic to various things |
| 15:33.50 | elg | and taking him off of them seemed to help his eczema immensely, unfortunately we moved down here at about the same time so it could have been the change in weather/house too |
| 15:33.51 | levi | elg: A prick test, or some other werid thing? |
| 15:34.05 | RyanE | I've seen the prick test, but that's not so much for food allergies, from what I understand |
| 15:34.11 | elg | not prick, it's some kind of elctrosmoethingorother test |
| 15:34.12 | levi | s/werid/weird/ |
| 15:34.22 | levi | That does sound weird. |
| 15:34.33 | RyanE | fortunately for me, I'm only allergic to dogs and cats. being I don't like cats, only the dog allergy I hate. |
| 15:34.35 | levi | Is this from a doctor? |
| 15:34.39 | elg | yeah. thankfully the lst one showed that he's growing out of them |
| 15:34.49 | elg | so he gets to eat more now, whether he's really allergic to them or not. :) |
| 15:35.05 | elg | i think there's some kind of doctor-like person involved, yeah |
| 15:35.13 | elg | it's a health clinic in provo |
| 15:35.17 | RyanE | elg: what did they determine he was sensitive to? |
| 15:35.18 | goozbach | elg: just get an epi-pen and use trial and error :) |
| 15:35.21 | levi | My in-laws deal with allergies through some weird aura-reading lady who claims to be able to read and adjust auras to remove allergies. |
| 15:35.30 | RyanE | goozbach: heh |
| 15:35.44 | elg | RyanE: wheat and milk, mostly. but also corn and soy and processed sugar and everything else under the sun in varying degrees |
| 15:36.02 | elg | levi: that's more weird than the electro people. :) |
| 15:36.05 | RyanE | levi: my sister-in-law went that route as well. she's what I'd term a 'holistic nut', but I can't argue with when she gets better. |
| 15:36.20 | levi | RyanE: The placebo effect is powerful! |
| 15:36.27 | RyanE | elg: that sounds like my sister-in-law. |
| 15:36.34 | elg | i put my foot down on the whole "ask yourself questions and see if you can pull your fingers apart" thing |
| 15:36.52 | elg | it's almost plausible if the person being asked is the one with the problem |
| 15:36.59 | RyanE | levi: no doubt, but the self-experimentation aspect she does now seems healthy enough. |
| 15:37.13 | elg | but this was supposed to work on erin for figuring out what was wrong with jonathan |
| 15:37.13 | levi | Yeah. As long as it works. |
| 15:37.23 | levi | And the aura lady only charged some nominal fee, like $5 or something. |
| 15:37.24 | elg | -lart goozbach |
| 15:37.33 | levi | So it's not like they were getting taken to the cleaners. |
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| 15:37.49 | elg | levi: actually it is like that, since the cleaners is usually $5 or so |
| 15:38.01 | goozbach | ohh line dancing |
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| 15:38.04 | beandog | I *really* love / hate mythv. |
| 15:38.15 | levi | elg: I mean the kind of cleaners that clean out your bank account. |
| 15:38.18 | elg | i really love lirc. :) |
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| 15:38.24 | RyanE | beandog: what do you hate about it? |
| 15:38.26 | elg | levi: :) |
| 15:38.35 | RyanE | I mostly love Myth. |
| 15:38.38 | beandog | RyanE: http://wonkabar.org/blog/?p=114 |
| 15:38.44 | beandog | I just got it ALL off my chest. |
| 15:39.04 | levi | At some point, I want to install a computer in my van, since it's got more than enough room. |
| 15:39.07 | beandog | and, naturally, I dont feel any better. :) |
| 15:39.21 | redbeard1 | levi: nope, haven't figured out the stabilizer thing yet |
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| 15:39.44 | RyanE | I love synergy today... cut/paste across OSes is just cool. |
| 15:39.46 | levi | I haven't figured out yet where I'd mount a display, though. |
| 15:39.46 | elg | beandog: myth is making you tell alsa to do the resampling? |
| 15:40.01 | beandog | elg: pretty much |
| 15:40.05 | elg | silly |
| 15:40.30 | elg | yeah, I've never figured out why it doesn't use mplayer or something direct |
| 15:40.36 | elg | ++freevo |
| 15:40.42 | beandog | oh man, freevos just as bad. |
| 15:40.46 | beandog | hardcoded mplayer options?? |
| 15:40.51 | beandog | Drives me insane. |
| 15:41.00 | elg | at least it uses mplayer |
| 15:41.04 | beandog | Yes, yes |
| 15:41.07 | elg | but yeah it's a poor configuration |
| 15:41.09 | elg | system |
| 15:41.17 | beandog | freevo actually isnt NEARLY as bad. |
| 15:41.27 | beandog | In fact, I set it up once, somewhere to run JUST mplayer $file |
| 15:41.44 | beandog | instead of mplayer -lets-add-all-these-options-in-a-system-library-file-you-cant-find |
| 15:42.01 | beandog | I dont remember how. |
| 15:42.09 | beandog | elg: have you ever seen oxine? |
| 15:42.13 | elg | no |
| 15:42.16 | beandog | Its pretty cool |
| 15:42.23 | beandog | Its just a GUI file browser that launches Xine |
| 15:42.28 | elg | xine and i have never gotten along |
| 15:42.38 | elg | only one media app hates me more, and that's whatever gnome's default is |
| 15:42.38 | beandog | http://oxine.sourceforge.net/images/screenshot01.png |
| 15:42.42 | elg | can't remember the name |
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| 15:42.50 | beandog | totem? |
| 15:42.55 | elg | that's the one |
| 15:43.05 | elg | brings any computer I've ever tried it on to a thrashing halt as soon as it starts |
| 15:43.16 | elg | and by "tried it on" i mean I stuck in a music CD, of course |
| 15:43.27 | beandog | heheheh |
| 15:44.18 | beandog | that sucks. |
| 15:44.30 | beandog | Ive never had much luck with playing music CDs directly on Linux |
| 15:44.44 | levi | Huh, I've never had music CDs /not/ work. |
| 15:44.52 | levi | Unless I didn't have a cable hooked up or something. |
| 15:45.07 | beandog | youre supposed to hook up a cable? |
| 15:45.10 | levi | Of course, I haven't tried a music CD in a year or two. Maybe the technology has bitrotted. |
| 15:45.23 | levi | beandog: The CD audio cable, from the CDROM drive to the sound card. |
| 15:45.30 | beandog | whoops. |
| 15:45.46 | levi | Well, that would explain your problem! |
| 15:46.17 | levi | You could still play CDs with a player that uses cdda to play audio. |
| 15:46.27 | beandog | well, its no big deal |
| 15:46.37 | beandog | not when it takes < 5 minutes to rip / encode a CD now |
| 15:46.50 | RyanE | beandog: ok, I agree with your gripes, but only the wrapper issue really bites me. configuration sucks, OK, you do it once or twice a year. Doesn't use standard player... doesn't bug me. |
| 15:47.30 | beandog | I just hate the fact that I have to use nuvexport if I want my files at all. |
| 15:47.36 | RyanE | yeah, that I agree with |
| 15:47.37 | beandog | Its already an mpeg4. Its sitting right there. |
| 15:47.51 | RyanE | or mpeg2 if you left it hardware encoded in my case. |
| 15:47.57 | beandog | avidemux2 comes *very very close* to being able to read them natively, but the sound is always off a little bit. :T |
| 15:48.01 | beandog | well, mines hw encoded to mpeg4 |
| 15:48.02 | beandog | :D |
| 15:48.08 | beandog | ConvertX, baby! |
| 15:48.38 | beandog | Ive been trying to convert people to that thing for a while now, but my success rate is nill. :B |
| 15:48.59 | beandog | http://gentoo-wiki.com/HARDWARE_go7007 |
| 15:49.02 | RyanE | like I need a reason to purchase more hardware... |
| 15:49.07 | beandog | hardware encoding to mpeg1, mpeg2 and mpeg4 |
| 15:49.15 | beandog | usb 2.0, GPL kernel drivers |
| 15:49.21 | RyanE | yeah, but no tuner? |
| 15:49.26 | beandog | works natively with mythtv |
| 15:49.36 | beandog | its got an onboard tv tuner |
| 15:50.02 | RyanE | ok, not visible on top part of page... still, not going to happen, $$$ |
| 15:50.15 | RyanE | although, it does look pretty cool... |
| 15:50.30 | beandog | yah, its nice. |
| 15:50.37 | RyanE | other than that 48KHz audio capture... :) |
| 15:50.56 | beandog | Ive had mine for a year and a half or so ... still works great |
| 15:50.56 | beandog | heh. |
| 15:50.56 | RyanE | you only have one of them? |
| 15:50.56 | beandog | Im not THAT rich |
| 15:50.57 | RyanE | I've got a PVR250 and PVR350 |
| 15:51.04 | beandog | Theyre only $150 now |
| 15:51.25 | RyanE | and tried the HD PC3000 card, but I can't get squat in my area off-air, so cable is just about my only option. |
| 15:51.40 | Jayce^ | RyanE, you coming tonight? |
| 15:51.42 | beandog | oh, its got a coax cable thing on the back |
| 15:51.47 | beandog | you cant see it from the pictures though. |
| 15:51.59 | RyanE | I wish I could. Paige has Bells tonight, and I'm watching the kids. |
| 15:52.06 | RyanE | Maybe I can arrange a babysitter... |
| 15:52.11 | Jayce^ | :) |
| 15:52.12 | RyanE | the topic interests me. |
| 15:52.20 | Jayce^ | and thayne is always an interesting one to listen to |
| 15:52.29 | Jayce^ | spiffy new hardware is always cool |
| 15:52.36 | RyanE | yep |
| 15:53.16 | beandog | see, once again, Ive failed to convert anyone. :) |
| 15:54.47 | levi | Heh, Thayne. |
| 15:55.10 | levi | He's fun to go mountain biking with. |
| 15:55.14 | Jayce^ | I bet |
| 15:55.29 | levi | The office is much quieter without him, though. |
| 15:56.18 | levi | And now there are fewer really awkward moments in company meetings. |
| 15:58.16 | Jayce^ | I can imagine that |
| 16:04.00 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | darn ham on the street - it's going to make me fat |
| 16:05.32 | *** join/#utah mheath (i=Mike@c-67-182-231-23.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 16:10.23 | *** join/#utah bzob_l (n=bzob_l@209.205.212.38) |
| 16:10.29 | *** part/#utah bzob_l (n=bzob_l@209.205.212.38) |
| 16:14.55 | maquis | curses... why won't this thing work? |
| 16:15.24 | *** join/#utah spr (n=spr@otherlab.cs.byu.edu) |
| 16:18.54 | levi | maquis: What's not working? |
| 16:19.20 | maquis | trying to set up apache, postgres, php and postfix to play nicely on my neverblock... |
| 16:19.42 | maquis | current problem is that postgres won't let php connect |
| 16:19.45 | maquis | and i'm not sure why |
| 16:20.03 | maquis | well.. i've got a good idea of why... but i'm not sure why it's true) |
| 16:21.51 | *** join/#utah flyboy^ (n=flyboy@xen.ryansimpkins.com) |
| 16:24.21 | *** join/#utah redbeard1 (n=redbeard@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 16:36.57 | goozbach | http://www.physorg.com/news71910400.html |
| 16:38.58 | RyanE | riiiiiight... |
| 16:39.23 | RyanE | *I* can stop allergens from entering my body... I just have to live in a bubble. |
| 16:39.52 | *** join/#utah amcnabb (n=amcnabb@c-67-169-251-207.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 16:43.44 | Jayce^ | anybody here looking to buy a g4 ibook? |
| 16:43.53 | Jayce^ | got a friend with one he wants to sell, good price |
| 16:44.13 | levi | Sorry, already got one. |
| 16:44.13 | Jayce^ | 1.4ghz, 80gb drive, 802.11b/g, bluetooth, etc... 12" |
| 16:45.05 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | Jayce^: what price? |
| 16:46.49 | beandog | lets have a bidding war |
| 16:46.50 | beandog | $20! |
| 16:47.13 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 16:47.45 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | $21! |
| 16:47.54 | RyanE | $25 |
| 16:47.58 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | $25.01 |
| 16:48.02 | RyanE | dang! |
| 16:48.18 | RyanE | When does this bidding war end? I'd rather just wait and snipe. |
| 16:48.27 | beandog | heh |
| 16:48.34 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | If it's truly bidding, the best price will occur if we all work together and bid at the last minute |
| 16:49.17 | beandog | hmm, collusion |
| 16:49.20 | beandog | I like it. |
| 16:49.21 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | I've gotten some cool deals on ebay by doing that |
| 16:49.37 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | it's the early bidding that always drives up the price |
| 16:50.06 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | the early bidders never win either |
| 16:50.11 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | it's always the last minute ones |
| 16:52.35 | beandog | literally, last minute. |
| 16:53.28 | RyanE | the less interest there is in an auction till the end, the better the end price (for the buyer). |
| 16:54.22 | RyanE | and it will be won by the sniper who wants it the most. |
| 16:56.45 | flyboy^ | What if ebay extended the bid by 24 hours after each bid? |
| 16:56.58 | flyboy^ | The auction. sorry. :) |
| 16:57.21 | RyanE | there are auction sites that do that. except, the anti-sniping I've seen only extends by 5 minutes from the last bid. |
| 16:57.37 | RyanE | specifically, the site the Alpine School District uses does that. |
| 16:57.40 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | RyanE: sniping - yeah, that's the word |
| 16:57.46 | Jayce^ | jesse, think he's asking ~400, maybe a bit higher |
| 16:58.11 | flyboy^ | It would make a lot of sense to extend the auction - just like a real-life auction. |
| 16:58.13 | beandog | I wish ebay would allow auctions that are just a few hours long |
| 16:58.22 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | Jayce^: tempting, but I better not. Just bot an Xbox and a Canon Digital Rebel |
| 16:58.26 | beandog | so we snipers dont have to weight 10 days. |
| 16:58.27 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | bought |
| 16:58.28 | Jayce^ | I'd leave that to between the actual insterested party and the seller :) |
| 16:58.28 | beandog | wait. |
| 16:58.44 | flyboy^ | Yeah, it would be totally cool to have an e-bay 'live' auction - real-time in the space of an hour. |
| 16:58.54 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | ideally, ebay should detect if sniping is happening and extend the auction until the sniping stops |
| 16:58.57 | RyanE | yeah, but only a few hours long wouldn't attract as many bidders, in theory |
| 16:59.07 | flyboy^ | With some sort of software that works like the NASDAQ to get it done fast. |
| 16:59.09 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | it should be dynamic as to the time it is extended, unless the seller specifies otherwise |
| 16:59.10 | RyanE | but sniping is not illegal, as long as you're not using a bot |
| 16:59.31 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | it means the end of ebay if everyone starts doing it though |
| 16:59.38 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | no one will want to seel if people catch on |
| 16:59.40 | RyanE | if I legitimately wait until the end of the auction, and then place my maximum bid, what's the harm? |
| 16:59.42 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | sell |
| 16:59.46 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | man, can't spell today |
| 17:00.04 | RyanE | why not? They still get someone purchasing, at some price, but they just don't know what that price is until the end. |
| 17:00.37 | RyanE | sniping doesn't hurt the seller, it hurts people who bid as they go along, and don't snipe. |
| 17:00.40 | flyboy^ | I always thought the point of an auction was really in favor of the seller. Occasionally you are going to sell something that ends up over-valued. |
| 17:00.52 | RyanE | not to the buyer. |
| 17:00.55 | flyboy^ | Ebay these days is more a auction-store than a real auction house. |
| 17:01.06 | RyanE | by definition, if a seller bids on something, they think it has that much value. |
| 17:01.15 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | RyanE: if everyone bids at the last minute it won't go up as high |
| 17:01.25 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | not as many people can bid in a short time span |
| 17:02.18 | flyboy^ | I think ebay is really open to an inovative competetor. |
| 17:02.22 | RyanE | I see your point, but only extending the auction will change that. The fact is, it's NOT a real auction, people are not in the same room, it's never going to have the same dynamics. |
| 17:02.41 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | yes, you have to extend the auction to keep that from happening |
| 17:02.52 | RyanE | even extending the auction for the last bid, not everyone who has bid on the item will still be around when it ends. |
| 17:02.59 | RyanE | so it's not the same dynamic |
| 17:03.03 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | I think the extension should be dynamic, depending on traffic in bidding |
| 17:03.18 | RyanE | in a 'real' auction, people don't bid on an item, then leave, come back later to see if they won. |
| 17:03.40 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | RyanE: it's more of a silent auction |
| 17:03.57 | RyanE | in a 'real' auction, people are going to bid up to a maximum they have to spend, then stop. Of course, at a 'real' auction, people can get carried away, and not act rationally |
| 17:04.01 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | until the last minute, when the auction becomes a live one |
| 17:04.34 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | if you keep getting outbid at the last minute and you really want the item you'll continue bidding, hence the need for a dynamic extension |
| 17:04.45 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | and more realistic to a live auction |
| 17:04.51 | RyanE | but if all participants were rational, sniping doesn't change too much an item is bought for, because all the snipers will snipe at their maximum they are going to spend. |
| 17:05.06 | RyanE | I know that's a big if, though |
| 17:05.53 | RyanE | I'd better go get some work done, or my butt will be up on ebay... :) |
| 17:05.58 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | I think the attraction of online auctions comes from the possibility that you will have those irrational buyers though |
| 17:06.03 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | heh |
| 17:08.02 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | I think I'm going to start an auction site where you advertise an item for a week, then the item goes up for auction at a set time and remains online until bidding completely stops (or hasn't had a bid after n minutes) |
| 17:08.14 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | sniping would be encouraged in this case |
| 17:09.05 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | you would start the algorithm at a longer interval, and shorten it as bids become more frequent |
| 17:09.51 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | I'm thinking perhaps a digg model where the more popular items automatically go on the front page |
| 17:10.24 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | the buyers and the seller will never know when an item is finally sold until it's sold |
| 17:10.53 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | the seller could also place limits on what they want to sell the item for this way |
| 17:12.28 | *** join/#utah xbmodder_ppc (n=pocketir@001-764-621.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 17:20.44 | sjansen | ~snipe m{\w{5}_Jesse} |
| 17:36.25 | *** part/#utah resplin (n=richard@69-164-125-180.sbtnvt.adelphia.net) |
| 17:40.23 | maquis | anyone here have a favorite egyptian god or goddess? |
| 17:41.42 | Jayce^ | Ra |
| 17:41.44 | Jayce^ | isus |
| 17:41.45 | Jayce^ | horus |
| 17:41.52 | Jayce^ | (the most well known ones of course) |
| 17:42.07 | maquis | Jayce^: ra is already taken... (as are anubis and sekhmet) :) |
| 17:42.36 | Jayce^ | yeah, I used to know more names and what they were, but cant' remember offhand |
| 17:42.43 | maquis | :) |
| 17:42.48 | redbeard1 | okay, that was weird. jayce and i just looked through my photos from the cooking demo i did for uug a couple of years ago. |
| 17:43.00 | redbeard1 | he pointed out a lot of people that i didn't know then and know now |
| 17:43.05 | maquis | redbeard1: :) |
| 17:43.10 | Jayce^ | and now you know...... |
| 17:43.23 | Jayce^ | and knowing is .... (yeah, everybody can finish that one) |
| 17:43.45 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 17:44.48 | redbeard1 | ah, server naming schemes |
| 17:45.09 | maquis | redbeard1: why else would i be looking for egyptian gods and goddesses? :) |
| 17:45.57 | redbeard1 | maquis: um. school assignment? looking for a new nick? |
| 17:46.02 | harleypig | You're a stargate fan? |
| 17:46.05 | redbeard1 | okay, you're right. |
| 17:46.11 | redbeard1 | ~lart harleypig |
| 17:46.22 | harleypig | Cool! That's not a lart! |
| 17:46.34 | maquis | harleypig: true... but only due to dr jackson... |
| 17:46.47 | harleypig | which one? |
| 17:46.53 | harleypig | the movie or the tv show? |
| 17:47.08 | maquis | tv show... although i haven't watched in forever (only watch when i'm home from school) |
| 17:47.31 | harleypig | Ah. That's why you download the episodes ... you can sneak'em in class ... |
| 17:47.44 | maquis | lol |
| 17:48.29 | goozbach | redbeard1 even has a picture of me as a beatles wannabe |
| 17:48.51 | harleypig | heh |
| 17:48.53 | RyanE_away | redbeard1: you probably don't remember going out to eat with me. |
| 17:50.49 | redbeard1 | RyanE: i went out to eat with you? |
| 17:51.01 | redbeard1 | RyanE: jayce did point you out in the photos |
| 17:51.16 | RyanE | well, not formally. you and I and someone else (who I don't remember) went to some place downtown SLC after a UG meeting. |
| 17:51.29 | RyanE | and I had some fusion-indian food. |
| 17:51.53 | RyanE | it was some coffee house sort of place. and you were talking about your aspirations to make some sort of food-related software. |
| 17:52.27 | redbeard1 | RyanE: i remember that, you gave harley a lift to the brainshare thing. we ordered vegetables julienne. man, i love that dish. |
| 17:52.39 | RyanE | yeah, that's right. How could I forget it was Harley. |
| 17:52.41 | RyanE | hehe |
| 17:53.37 | RyanE | I had something that had pine nuts in it. and maybe bananas. |
| 17:53.45 | RyanE | whatever it was, it was good. |
| 17:54.06 | redbeard1 | RyanE: yeah, i think i made you guys order the vegetables julienne too. |
| 17:55.02 | redbeard1 | m{\w{5}_Jesse}: no, no you weren't. |
| 17:55.22 | redbeard1 | oh man. pictures of harley with a brigham young beard cut. |
| 17:55.44 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | I do remember many a slurpy and sobe runs with you though |
| 17:55.55 | RyanE | I think it's a vivid memory for me because I'm not a 'foodie'. |
| 17:56.16 | RyanE | when you have a bunch of young kids, you tend to eat more mac & cheese and hotdogs than you care to mention in polite company. :) |
| 17:56.36 | redbeard1 | i had mac and cheese a couple of nights ago. i think it was the 10 for $3 stuff too. |
| 17:56.44 | redbeard1 | ubercheap |
| 17:56.54 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | my mom makes good mac & cheese |
| 17:56.59 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | made with real cheese |
| 17:57.15 | levi | I love ubercheap mac & cheese. |
| 17:57.29 | redbeard1 | i make it with real cheese sometimes. but ubercheap mac & cheese is total comfort food for me. |
| 17:57.36 | levi | It's so delightfully buttery. |
| 17:58.19 | redbeard1 | i can't even eat kraft mac & cheese. not cheap enough, i guess |
| 17:59.40 | redbeard1 | oh man. now i want to make a casserole. but plug is tonight, so i don't have time. |
| 17:59.54 | levi | I don't mind the Kraft stuff. As long as it's the cheese powder instead of cheese goo. |
| 18:00.07 | macnewbold | I know how to make a really easy, really good, homemade cheese sauce that's great on pasta |
| 18:00.40 | levi | Does it taste like cheese powder mixed with milk and butter, though? |
| 18:01.03 | redbeard1 | i found a place a while ago that sells cheese powder in bulk |
| 18:01.11 | redbeard1 | like 5 pound bags or something |
| 18:02.14 | levi | Awesome. |
| 18:02.48 | bonez41 | does youtube.com work in firefox in linux? |
| 18:02.52 | bonez41 | should it work? |
| 18:03.01 | maquis | what's wrong with kraft mac & cheese? |
| 18:03.19 | bonez41 | maquis, nothing ...it's great....I love the stuff |
| 18:03.24 | maquis | me too... |
| 18:03.34 | RyanE | my mom used to buy the cheese powder in bulk at orson gygi |
| 18:03.35 | macnewbold | bonez41: it probably should, if you install the flash 8 plugin |
| 18:03.38 | macnewbold | nice |
| 18:03.41 | levi | I heard of a guy, a cyclist, who wanted cheap energy gel. He found the distributor that makes the stuff and tried to order some directly. Ended up getting a free sample, which was some ginormous amount (multiple gallons) that would last a single person about forever. |
| 18:03.46 | macnewbold | I didn't know they sold that there |
| 18:03.48 | RyanE | made good cheese broccoli |
| 18:03.54 | macnewbold | we buy bulk chocolate there too |
| 18:03.57 | macnewbold | mmmm |
| 18:04.03 | macnewbold | time for lunch methinks... |
| 18:04.06 | RyanE | yeah, some good ghiardelli chocolate |
| 18:04.26 | bonez41 | macnewbold, you said you have flash 8 plugin working? |
| 18:04.39 | goozbach | http://www.friocorte.com/talam/photo?photo_id=8980 |
| 18:04.53 | levi | Time for me to eat lunch, too. |
| 18:05.07 | macnewbold | bonez: yes, in my linux-firefox on freebsd |
| 18:05.11 | macnewbold | on real linux it should work fine |
| 18:05.19 | macnewbold | you just download it from macromedia |
| 18:05.40 | maquis | goozbach: yipes |
| 18:05.45 | bonez41 | macnewbold, is a plugin same/similar to extension? |
| 18:05.56 | goozbach | I look like a beatle |
| 18:06.06 | redbeard1 | goozbach: gee, thanks. just had to show everyone how little hair i have in comparison. |
| 18:06.21 | redbeard1 | i did have a killer shirt tho |
| 18:07.47 | goozbach | yeah my supervisor just complemented it |
| 18:08.01 | goozbach | how long ago was that? |
| 18:08.14 | redbeard1 | a couple of years |
| 18:08.27 | redbeard1 | check the file info, it should say |
| 18:09.05 | macnewbold | bonez41: plugins are things that handle particular media/mime types, and extensions are things that add or modify behaviors in firefox - the flash thing is a plugin |
| 18:09.28 | macnewbold | you can also get an mplayer plugin, for example, to handle audio/video types |
| 18:09.41 | macnewbold | or an adobe acrobat reader plugin that opens pdfs right in your browser |
| 18:09.49 | macnewbold | but they're all different from extensions |
| 18:13.17 | maquis | http://www.ogenstad.net |
| 18:16.54 | goozbach | 2004-11-18 |
| 18:16.59 | goozbach | that WAS a while ago |
| 18:35.04 | *** join/#utah bzob_ (n=bzobrist@nat.myfamilyinc.com) |
| 18:42.48 | bonez41 | I guess my glasses are obscuring the view today, I can't seem to find the Plugin option in my Firefox.... |
| 18:43.34 | bonez41 | Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.4) Gecko/20060406 Firefox/1.5.0.4 (Debian-1.5.dfsg+1.5.0.4-0bpo1) |
| 18:43.40 | bonez41 | that's from Help | About |
| 18:43.57 | *** join/#utah Peregrine (n=lamontp@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 18:44.20 | Peregrine | Maquis: would you mind /msg-ing me? |
| 18:49.10 | vontrapp | ~mourn falcon |
| 18:49.11 | ibot | ACTION lights some candles for falcon |
| 18:55.28 | vontrapp | -brac! |
| 18:55.36 | vontrapp | -roulette |
| 18:58.46 | vontrapp | ~praise nick125_lappy |
| 18:58.48 | ibot | All hail nick125_lappy! |
| 19:06.43 | nick125_lappy | wow...vim is nice.. |
| 19:07.19 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp29.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 19:07.24 | vontrapp | ~lart leg |
| 19:07.27 | vontrapp | grr |
| 19:07.31 | vontrapp | ~lart elg |
| 19:07.49 | vontrapp | elg: we have a new convert |
| 19:08.06 | elg | hm? |
| 19:08.10 | elg | crumpet converts? |
| 19:08.16 | vontrapp | not any thanks to us though ,he did it on his own |
| 19:08.25 | vontrapp | nick125_lappy -> vim |
| 19:08.58 | nick125_lappy | well, I had a ubuntu image, and, it didn't have nano on it, only vim, and I needed to edit some files, and I fired up vimtutor and started to like it :P |
| 19:10.03 | elg | good good |
| 19:10.15 | elg | if you like vim after just doing the tutor, you'll love it when you actually learn it |
| 19:10.35 | nick125_lappy | I like how you can dd a line, then place it somewhere |
| 19:10.49 | vontrapp | indespensible |
| 19:10.49 | elg | ~feed hans |
| 19:10.51 | ibot | offers hans some herring |
| 19:11.41 | vontrapp | or in_dd_spensible |
| 19:14.54 | levi | The standard deviation of what? |
| 19:15.09 | xbmodder_ppc | ~ping |
| 19:15.11 | ibot | pong |
| 19:15.31 | vontrapp | of a host pinger (pinging falcon) and it's been all zero since falcon is down |
| 19:15.43 | vontrapp | seems the thing just froze |
| 19:17.26 | sjansen | ~lart ibot for not being able to read vontrapp's mind |
| 19:17.33 | sjansen | ~art elg |
| 19:17.39 | sjansen | ~fart emcnabb |
| 19:17.40 | ibot | ACTION farts in emcnabb's general direction |
| 19:19.20 | scottj | anyone happen to have a nice black mousepad laying around that they're not using? Everthing on my desk is black except an ugly bright blue dell pad. |
| 19:20.30 | RyanE | scottj: spraypaint. or black duck tape. |
| 19:20.45 | sjansen | Or throw away the mouse pad. |
| 19:20.50 | xbmodder_ppc | <RyanE> spraypaint |
| 19:20.51 | scottj | I could go buy one but I'd feel weird givin how many pads I've thrown away |
| 19:20.56 | xbmodder_ppc | not duct tape |
| 19:21.07 | sjansen | Seriously, you must have a lousy mouse or a lousey desktop if your mouse doesn't work without one. |
| 19:21.10 | RyanE | I was saying that facetiously... |
| 19:21.19 | RyanE | I'd use electrical tape first... :) |
| 19:21.55 | xbmodder_ppc | lol |
| 19:22.06 | scottj | sjansen: despite the color I've warmmed up to mousepads from this ugly one |
| 19:22.22 | xbmodder_ppc | i just threw away a really sweet black white and silver mousepad |
| 19:22.35 | xbmodder_ppc | like a wwek ago |
| 19:23.04 | sjansen | scottj: What does it actually give you, other than the knowledge that your mouse doesn't have to put its delicate tootseys on a cold desktop? |
| 19:23.31 | RyanE | my mousepad here at home needs to be thrown away... getting pretty gross. My mouse is on a pad because I have a tablecloth on the table under the computer stuff, and it slides without the pad. |
| 19:24.34 | xbmodder_ppc | make on |
| 19:24.49 | xbmodder_ppc | one |
| 19:24.51 | RyanE | make off |
| 19:25.00 | xbmodder_ppc | its good for your inner geek |
| 19:25.06 | sjansen | make love |
| 19:25.09 | RyanE | turn it upside down. The bottom is probably black. |
| 19:25.10 | sjansen | ! war |
| 19:25.51 | scottj | put electrical tape on the desk to designate where the mouse can and can't go |
| 19:27.10 | xbmodder_ppc | <sjansen> :-/ |
| 19:27.41 | xbmodder_ppc | breaking law is bad |
| 19:29.32 | xbmodder_ppc | i really have a knack for killing conversations |
| 19:30.40 | xbmodder_ppc | ~ping |
| 19:30.42 | ibot | pong |
| 19:31.02 | xbmodder_ppc | at least ibot still loves me. |
| 19:31.23 | xbmodder_ppc | and will talk to me |
| 19:31.27 | nick125_lappy | lol |
| 19:31.36 | harleypig | http://cgi.ebay.com/MY-HANDWRITTEN-JOURNAL-JESUS-CHRIST-APPEARED-TO-ME_W0QQitemZ200004365852QQihZ010QQcategoryZ16710QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem |
| 19:31.43 | xbmodder_ppc | <nick125_lappy> ping me |
| 19:31.44 | harleypig | No, no ... it's just where he LIVES! |
| 19:31.54 | xbmodder_ppc | how much lagolots? |
| 19:32.01 | nick125_lappy | 1.3sec |
| 19:32.31 | elg | harleypig: you can buy it now |
| 19:32.46 | xbmodder_ppc | damn |
| 19:32.50 | harleypig | Yeah ... the price is kind of out of my league though. |
| 19:33.05 | harleypig | I'm tempted to bid a penny, just to see what happens. |
| 19:33.12 | elg | not once you have the cure to cancer |
| 19:33.24 | elg | then you can afford 15 Gs in a heartbeat |
| 19:33.29 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 19:33.55 | harleypig | It's kind of a bootstrap problem though. |
| 19:34.01 | xbmodder_ppc | i have write an essay on tupak shakur's changes |
| 19:34.05 | xbmodder_ppc | this sucks |
| 19:34.06 | elg | your boots have cancer? |
| 19:34.11 | harleypig | I wonder if he'll take a promisory note. |
| 19:34.26 | xbmodder_ppc | rap is evil |
| 19:34.52 | vontrapp | unfinished and inactive rap is, but i wouldn't say evil |
| 19:35.54 | xbmodder_ppc | i think instead of the 'we fine you if you sell rap to minors' just put a tax on it |
| 19:36.00 | elg | a prof i overheard just now claimed that emacs was named after an ice cream shop near MIT |
| 19:36.36 | elg | said something like "they claim it stands for editing macros or something, but I think..." |
| 19:36.48 | harleypig | I love The Register: Well, Dell has done away with its Texas grit by this month putting on a Web 2.0 skirt and swishing around in front of us all via its new blog. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/07/11/dell_plug_sun/ |
| 19:37.12 | xbmodder_ppc | use that to pay for rehab for the 'messed up' teens |
| 19:37.49 | xbmodder_ppc | rap is an infinitely worse thing compared to violet video games |
| 19:39.27 | neybar | rap itself is neither good nor bad, it is the culture around it. I'm fairly certian that if you were to listen to Fresh Prince and DJ Jazzy Jeff you would still come out ok. |
| 19:39.58 | elg | a little jazzy or fresh, maybe |
| 19:39.59 | elg | but ok |
| 19:40.17 | elg | ooh, I can't stand violet video games |
| 19:40.22 | elg | purple just makes me so mad |
| 19:40.42 | neybar | lol |
| 19:42.18 | xbmodder_ppc | in high school you see alot more people imitating rappers though. and these kids usually have money to rig something more violent or dangerous than all vid. games |
| 19:43.04 | maquis | goozbach: ping? |
| 19:43.06 | neybar | right, but they are imitating the gangster who also happens to be a rapper |
| 19:43.09 | goozbach | poing |
| 19:43.18 | goozbach | I'm a little bent today |
| 19:43.30 | goozbach | hence the sound reflected |
| 19:43.41 | elg | ~whack goozbach |
| 19:43.42 | ibot | ACTION whacks goozbach upside the head. |
| 19:44.09 | xbmodder_ppc | heh |
| 19:44.24 | goozbach | GOOINNNG! |
| 19:45.37 | xbmodder_ppc | with pillows! |
| 19:45.59 | harleypig | http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/07/12/boffin_touts_protein-based_50tb_dvd/ |
| 19:45.59 | harleypig | USB Flesh Disks! |
| 19:45.59 | goozbach | thud |
| 19:46.42 | xbmodder_ppc | *watches g.w. bush shoot it down* |
| 19:47.57 | RyanE | soylent green-ray DVD's? |
| 19:48.13 | xbmodder_ppc | lol |
| 19:48.15 | RyanE | they're people-riffic! |
| 19:48.20 | elg | great. just great. what good is 2nd day shipping if they make one delivery attempt and then decide to try again the next business day |
| 19:48.27 | elg | at 9:47am |
| 19:48.47 | harleypig | Indianna is attempting to ban pornographic material from its prison population, where pornographic is defined as "portraying a naked woman" |
| 19:49.09 | harleypig | CNN had the proponent of the bill and a major opponent of the bill on |
| 19:49.35 | harleypig | The proponnent said "pornography demans women and is a means to degrade us" |
| 19:49.36 | xbmodder_ppc | <harleypig> so? |
| 19:49.53 | harleypig | I wonder if they'd be all hot an bothered about it if it were gay porn. |
| 19:50.05 | xbmodder_ppc | lol |
| 19:50.13 | harleypig | It bugs me that these anti-porn folk focus on the women and completely ignore the men. |
| 19:51.51 | xbmodder_ppc | hm |
| 19:52.25 | xbmodder_ppc | how about 'government approved pornography?' |
| 19:52.55 | harleypig | well, who's gonna go through the Natl Geographic and make sure there aren't any natives bouncing around? |
| 19:53.26 | xbmodder_ppc | eh? |
| 19:53.34 | harleypig | Give it a 12 year old and if he hides the mag you know it can't be given to the inmates? |
| 19:54.03 | harleypig | s/mag/mag under his mattress/ |
| 19:57.03 | nick125_lappy | lol |
| 19:59.06 | xbmodder_ppc | just have government owned porn shops which sell self-censoring pornography |
| 19:59.28 | tene | http://rense.com/general72/size.htm |
| 19:59.31 | xbmodder_ppc | like an ink that darkens 48 hours after its exposed to air |
| 20:01.40 | sjansen | ~make love |
| 20:01.41 | ibot | make: *** No rule to make target `love'. Stop. |
| 20:02.10 | redbeard1 | sjansen: wow. i don't even know what to think of ibot's response |
| 20:03.04 | elg | anyone done the alternate installer know what I can do if I get a blank screen? |
| 20:03.17 | elg | it's still using the disk and accessing the CD like it's still setting things up |
| 20:03.21 | elg | but nothing on the screen |
| 20:03.31 | elg | I think it probably guessed the video wrong or something |
| 20:03.33 | xbmodder_ppc | for what |
| 20:03.37 | xbmodder_ppc | debian? |
| 20:03.46 | elg | oh sorry. ubuntu 6.06 alternate installer |
| 20:04.09 | elg | ctrl-alt-fX doesn't do anything |
| 20:04.14 | elg | and it didn't start sshd |
| 20:05.06 | sjansen | redbeard1: That just means that you haven't worked with make files in awhile. |
| 20:05.33 | redbeard1 | sjansen: ah. i understand |
| 20:05.40 | sjansen | elg: I did the alternate installer a few days ago, nothing like that happened |
| 20:06.08 | elg | oh good, it just ejected the CD |
| 20:06.22 | levi | elg: Emack & Bolio's is an ice cream shop within walking distance of MIT |
| 20:06.30 | sjansen | elg: My one guess is to check alt-ctrl-f2, etc. to see if there's any debug info to help. |
| 20:06.35 | elg | nada |
| 20:06.39 | xbmodder_ppc | what video card |
| 20:06.47 | elg | a vaio laptop |
| 20:06.59 | sjansen | Your fault for buying Sony. |
| 20:07.03 | nick125_lappy | haha |
| 20:07.15 | levi | elg: There is evidence that naming of several Lisp-related things relates to the ice cream shop, like the 'Flavors' OOP system and possibly Emacs. |
| 20:10.28 | sjansen | levi: That's cool. Wish I could find some way to insert it my lectures between "don't use emacs" and "emacs is devil spawn". |
| 20:10.58 | sjansen | Although maybe I should insert it between "emacs chews RAM for breakfast" and "emacs will give you carpal tunnel"... |
| 20:11.17 | nick125_lappy | lol |
| 20:13.13 | levi | I found a paper that describes the implementation of a thread library that distributes lightweight userspace threads over a small pool of OS threads. |
| 20:14.03 | levi | I've thought for a while that this would be an optimal arrangement, but I wonder what the downsides are (aside from implementation complexity). |
| 20:16.03 | sjansen | Solaris basically provides that capability now. |
| 20:16.24 | sjansen | So far as I'm aware, there's not much down side once you find the right balance. |
| 20:16.53 | sjansen | The hard part is getting the ratio of OS:User threads right. No one ratio is best for all applications. |
| 20:17.23 | macnewbold | so you make it adaptive, or account for it in the scheduler? |
| 20:17.31 | *** join/#utah herlo (n=clints@ip-160-79-29-94.autorev.intellispace.net) |
| 20:18.12 | levi | sjansen: Actually, recent versions of Solaris got rid of it. |
| 20:18.27 | sjansen | huh, that I didn't know |
| 20:18.27 | levi | sjansen: Or deprecated it, at least. |
| 20:18.33 | sjansen | Do you know why? |
| 20:19.00 | sjansen | macnewbold: I'm not aware of any adaptive implementations, but that is the obvious next step. |
| 20:19.16 | bonez41 | macnewbold, I went to adobe's site..it recognizes that I am runnign linux..and says..oh, Here's version 7.x....here's how to download and install....where would I find theversion 8 flash plugin? My firefox as well, at Help, has no About Plugins..though I have seen that in prior versions of firefox |
| 20:19.38 | levi | I believe the paper I read said it was too much trouble, and that they thought it was a better idea to not have massive concurrency anyway, so a small number of threads was sufficient. |
| 20:23.21 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | I think the utah OSS planet rss feed is cached, and only updates every so often |
| 20:23.25 | macnewbold | weird, I don't know |
| 20:23.38 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | I only get updates every couple days, and when I do it's like 50-60 |
| 20:23.43 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | entries |
| 20:24.03 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | This last one has like 6 days worth of entries |
| 20:24.36 | levi | m{\w{5}_Jesse}: I'm subscribed to it via bloglines, and I get frequent updates throughout the day. |
| 20:25.09 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | weird - thunderbird does it with just OSS planet. All my other blogs work fine |
| 20:25.27 | Jayce^ | m{\w{5}_Jesse}, it updates every hour |
| 20:25.45 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | anyone else ever tried it with thunderbird? |
| 20:27.46 | RyanE | I only read it with firefox, because I think RSS is a fad. :) |
| 20:28.08 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | what do you think rss will be replaced with? |
| 20:28.15 | sjansen | RyanE: You haven't experienced bloglines then. |
| 20:28.30 | RyanE | nothing. The curmudgeon's bible says that things that are < 10 years old are fads. The web just stopped being a fad. |
| 20:28.48 | RyanE | the internet has been non-fad for some time now, as has email. |
| 20:29.14 | sjansen | RyanE: Man, it must have been a pain when your curmudgeon's ethics only allowed you to browse the Web using email. |
| 20:29.23 | RyanE | no, back then we used gopher. |
| 20:29.29 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | things > 10 years old get replaced :-) |
| 20:30.13 | sjansen | m{\w{5}_Jesse}: Wow, souds like a hyper-extreme version of Logan's Run. |
| 20:30.13 | RyanE | yes, it's inconvenient at times, but I *can* choose to look into certain fads, but it gives me the power to dismiss entire realms of ideas with one wave of the wand! |
| 20:30.35 | RyanE | even I participate in *some* fads. |
| 20:30.43 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | RyanE: let me guess - you're a Debian user |
| 20:30.52 | RyanE | hehe. |
| 20:31.09 | macnewbold | no, it's the legwarmers fad from years ago... he never let it go |
| 20:31.35 | RyanE | yeah, that fad was popular when I was in High School. more a girl thing. didn't do it for me. |
| 20:32.24 | sjansen | RyanE: You were probably more of a sweatband guy, weren't you? |
| 20:33.08 | RyanE | no, that was 10 years earlier. |
| 20:33.29 | RyanE | I graduated smack-dab in the middle of the 80s. |
| 20:33.48 | RyanE | sweatbands and tube socks with stripes were mid-70's to early 80's. |
| 20:34.16 | levi | RyanE: I fairly recently followed a link on a web page that took me to a gopher URL that was still functioning. |
| 20:34.33 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | RyanE: wow - you're like 10 yrs older than me |
| 20:34.40 | RyanE | gopher was the bees knees before the web. |
| 20:34.52 | levi | Indeed it was. |
| 20:34.55 | maquis | yipes.. |
| 20:34.58 | levi | That's where I found all my MUDs! |
| 20:35.01 | RyanE | and before that, MUDs were the best... |
| 20:35.02 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | no longer a fad I guess |
| 20:35.14 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | ~replace RyanE |
| 20:35.15 | RyanE | nope, it went from fad straight to obsolescence. |
| 20:35.53 | macnewbold | BBS's rock |
| 20:35.54 | RyanE | apparently, I'm irreplaceable. |
| 20:36.14 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | oh, anything's replaceable after 10 yrs |
| 20:36.27 | RyanE | I wouldn't know. I've never stayed at a company that long. |
| 20:36.42 | sjansen | ~replace RyanE |
| 20:36.44 | ibot | ACTION replaces RyanE with a very small shell script |
| 20:36.48 | RyanE | so far, I've racked up 6 years, 2 years, 1 year, 3 years, and going on 1 year. |
| 20:37.19 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | no, you're 10 yrs older than me - that makes you replacable |
| 20:37.21 | levi | BBSes rocked. They no longer rock. |
| 20:38.01 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | we could just "reassign" you instead |
| 20:38.18 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | BBSes still rock |
| 20:38.22 | RyanE | I'm only replaceable when I've been at the same company for 10 years. |
| 20:38.24 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | there just aren't any |
| 20:38.36 | sjansen | Then the Web came along an ruined everything. Who wants to discuss politics or share poetry when you can look at pictures of cats? |
| 20:38.36 | Jayce^ | ~give sjansen a modem connection sound for old times sake |
| 20:38.37 | ibot | ACTION gives a modem connection sound for old times sake to sjansen |
| 20:38.50 | Jayce^ | mm, the sweet sound of 14.4 |
| 20:39.07 | levi | My first modem was 2400bps. |
| 20:39.29 | RyanE | first one I could afford was 1200bps. |
| 20:39.47 | sjansen | Man, it was exciting days when I figured out how to switch the school's modem from 2400 to 9600 mode. |
| 20:39.48 | levi | It was awesome dialing in and watching the ascii art login screens scroll into view. |
| 20:40.27 | RyanE | yeah, and when you found a color one with an actual ASCII terminal, that was an awesome sight. |
| 20:41.46 | sjansen | At first, nobody else in the school understood what was so great about hanging out in a BBS. I had the modem all to myself. |
| 20:41.59 | sjansen | Then we got a computer and a modem of our own! |
| 20:42.10 | flyboy^ | Is it an unwritten rule that hot chocolate is supposed to be 1000 degrees instead of just 200 degrees? |
| 20:42.49 | sjansen | Little did I know, as I helped beta test of the SLIP connection, that SLIP would be the death of the BBS. |
| 20:43.15 | levi | sjansen: What SLIP connection did you beta test? |
| 20:44.18 | sjansen | The SendIt BBS added SLIP instead of PPP. Don't ask me why, I was a clueless Mac user. |
| 20:44.31 | nick125_lappy | lol |
| 20:44.38 | RyanE | I used to SLIP into BYU when I was a student. |
| 20:44.43 | levi | SLIP predated PPP, IIRC. |
| 20:44.48 | RyanE | and for some time afterwards... :) |
| 20:44.55 | RyanE | they used to not delete CS student accounts for a couple of years. |
| 20:45.14 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 20:45.15 | sjansen | RyanE: They still don't if you know the right people. ;-) |
| 20:45.25 | RyanE | and it was well-known that they didn't. some would even email you warning you before deletion. |
| 20:45.38 | RyanE | yeah, but back then, you could use it as your ISP. |
| 20:45.52 | RyanE | can't really do that with a BYU account now... can't order DSL to BYU... |
| 20:49.11 | sjansen | Here's hoping I can get wireless working in my hotel room this time... |
| 20:53.03 | *** join/#utah ^Migs^ (i=Migs@205.122.50.21) |
| 20:53.03 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@64.72.210.10) |
| 20:53.09 | ^Migs^ | what's the best way to run IE in Linux? |
| 20:53.32 | RyanE | Wine works, but is a big pain. |
| 20:53.37 | RyanE | qemu works, but is slow |
| 20:54.09 | RyanE | VMware, etc. |
| 20:55.12 | *** join/#utah tene (n=tene@poipu/supporter/slacker/tene) |
| 20:57.42 | maquis | curses |
| 20:58.00 | nick125_lappy | if you have a CPU with VT, you could use xen |
| 20:58.28 | RyanE | harder setup, but should be a lot snappier. |
| 20:58.29 | *** join/#utah Migs (i=Migs@205.122.50.21) |
| 20:58.31 | Migs | oops |
| 20:58.43 | maquis | Migs: agreed |
| 20:59.22 | Migs | why is wine a big pain? |
| 20:59.41 | Migs | I have vmware here, but I don't like the idea of switching into it just to run IE |
| 20:59.41 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | wining is always frowned upon |
| 20:59.57 | Migs | so qemu it is |
| 20:59.57 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | ^Migs^: rdesktop? |
| 21:00.17 | Migs | how would I use rdesktop for that? |
| 21:00.19 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | wine isn't bad if you find a good installer script that downloads and installs it all for you |
| 21:00.21 | RyanE | vmware and qemu are analagous. |
| 21:00.26 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | there's a couple of those out there |
| 21:00.37 | Migs | is qemu free? |
| 21:00.37 | RyanE | although qemu is free, but now vmware is free for some uses too. |
| 21:00.42 | RyanE | yeah |
| 21:00.42 | Migs | cool |
| 21:00.43 | nick125_lappy | qemu is free, yeah |
| 21:01.19 | Migs | is vmware > qemu? |
| 21:01.25 | xbmodder_newlapp | RyanE, but kqemu ain't opensource |
| 21:01.27 | xbmodder_newlapp | Migs, True |
| 21:01.29 | Jayce^ | depends on what you are doing |
| 21:01.59 | RyanE | yeah, that's why I said 'slow'... :) |
| 21:02.24 | RyanE | kqemu is not needed to run, but apparently it's faster if you do, although I find qemu plenty fast for web browsing in IE to test web apps. |
| 21:02.26 | maquis | why the <beep> won't this <beep>-ing thing work??? |
| 21:02.36 | RyanE | curses doesn't do beeps very well. :) |
| 21:03.01 | xbmodder_newlapp | maquis, what are you trying to do? |
| 21:03.26 | maquis | trying to get postgresql to work... and some other things |
| 21:03.46 | xbmodder_newlapp | :-/ |
| 21:03.50 | xbmodder_newlapp | nick125_lappy |
| 21:03.53 | nick125_lappy | what |
| 21:04.01 | xbmodder_newlapp | remember postgresql? |
| 21:04.06 | nick125_lappy | what about it? |
| 21:04.21 | xbmodder_newlapp | ^^^ |
| 21:04.40 | nick125_lappy | I just done basic setup of pgsql.. |
| 21:04.44 | nick125_lappy | just to make you happy :) |
| 21:05.40 | xbmodder_newlapp | screw you |
| 21:06.32 | nick125_lappy | haha |
| 21:11.43 | maquis | ~curse postgresql |
| 21:11.45 | ibot | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, postgresql ! |
| 21:21.16 | *** join/#utah mheath (i=Mike@c-67-182-231-23.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 21:21.24 | RyanE | plug is at what time? |
| 21:22.17 | macnewbold | ~plug |
| 21:22.21 | macnewbold | ~pluglist |
| 21:22.23 | mheath | My cars acceleration problems are getting worse.... |
| 21:22.24 | macnewbold | ~utahplug |
| 21:22.29 | macnewbold | ~listkeys plug |
| 21:22.42 | RyanE | yeah, damian Conway... yeah right. |
| 21:22.45 | mheath | It's getting rediculous to drive the thing.\ |
| 21:23.23 | mheath | I'd like to appologize in advance for what I'm about to do, but I'm curious. |
| 21:23.29 | macnewbold | mheath: it just isn't accelerating well? you might check if you need a valve job... I had a car do that to me once |
| 21:23.34 | mheath | ~buttplug |
| 21:23.35 | ibot | buttplug is probably rah00's version of hotplug. |
| 21:23.51 | mheath | ah, that wasn't so bad |
| 21:23.56 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@cobra.mcnabbs.org) |
| 21:23.57 | mheath | macnewbold, it's accelerating _horribly_ |
| 21:24.10 | mheath | If I'm stopped at a light uphill..... |
| 21:24.30 | mheath | First gear, I floor the gas......the car sits down around 300 RPM, accelerates at a CRAWL |
| 21:24.42 | tene | my father's truck just started doing that |
| 21:24.50 | mheath | I'[m burning gas like mad, because I have to constantly floor the gas to even maintain speed. |
| 21:24.53 | macnewbold | automatic, or manual transmission? |
| 21:25.02 | tene | He took it somewhere, and they told him he had to get the entire engine replaced. |
| 21:25.02 | mheath | Manual. |
| 21:25.11 | macnewbold | 300 rpm doesn't stall out on you? or do you mean 3000? |
| 21:25.24 | mheath | macnewbold, it feels for a few seconds like it's about to stall |
| 21:25.38 | mheath | then the RPMs slowly start to crawl |
| 21:25.56 | mheath | I have to get up to about 4,000 RPM (6,000 is redline) in first gear before I hit decent acceleration |
| 21:26.04 | mheath | *RPMs slwly start to crawl up |
| 21:26.11 | macnewbold | hm |
| 21:26.15 | macnewbold | doesn't sound good |
| 21:26.24 | macnewbold | are you in SLC, or elsewhere? |
| 21:26.29 | mheath | Elsewhere. |
| 21:26.49 | macnewbold | if you want to try some things out yourself, www.autoglossary.com sells some educational materials that might help you figure it out |
| 21:26.57 | macnewbold | but I'd recommend a mechanic probably |
| 21:27.01 | mheath | macnewbold, meh, I'm still working on it. |
| 21:27.03 | macnewbold | at least to find out the damage |
| 21:27.16 | macnewbold | now you're leaving soon, right? |
| 21:27.29 | macnewbold | maybe it lasted just barely almost long enough? |
| 21:27.30 | mheath | macnewbold, the tires were very hot, so I thought it might be the master cylinder....it was dragging a bit |
| 21:27.39 | macnewbold | that's weird |
| 21:27.39 | mheath | so I replaced the brake master cylinder |
| 21:27.43 | macnewbold | hot tires... is something rubbing? |
| 21:27.49 | mheath | but there was still a problem |
| 21:27.58 | mheath | macnewbold, the master cylinder WAS sticking a bit |
| 21:28.02 | mheath | apparently that wasn't the main problem |
| 21:28.03 | macnewbold | hm |
| 21:28.07 | macnewbold | or not all of it |
| 21:28.16 | RyanE | does the engine lag even if not in gear? |
| 21:28.17 | macnewbold | no brake pads or shoes dragging or anything? |
| 21:28.24 | mheath | RyanE, no |
| 21:28.47 | mheath | if I'm not in gear and I push the gas, the RPMs climb quickly and like you'd expect them to |
| 21:28.56 | mheath | macnewbold, nope |
| 21:29.06 | RyanE | what wheels were hot? Front or back? |
| 21:29.19 | RyanE | rear-wheel drive or front? |
| 21:29.19 | mheath | Front. |
| 21:29.36 | mheath | That stopped after I replaced the master cylinder. |
| 21:29.49 | mheath | front |
| 21:30.34 | RyanE | yeah, good luck with that... that's where I step off the train, and call someone. |
| 21:31.06 | mheath | RyanE, meh, I'm a good mechanic myself. I've just started troubleshooting. |
| 21:31.42 | RyanE | I'm just saying... #utah is probably not the best place to help you diagnose. |
| 21:31.51 | maquis | anyone here really good at postgresql with centos? |
| 21:32.24 | mheath | RyanE, i wasn't asking for a diagnosis, I just commented that i was frustrated driving my car, and people started offering =p |
| 21:33.29 | RyanE | well, my sympathies. that does suck. |
| 21:34.25 | Jayce^ | RyanE, 7:30 same time for the last 10 years |
| 21:35.04 | Jayce^ | mheath, could be transmisison |
| 21:35.32 | RyanE | ok, so you're saying the 7:30 is now not a fad? :) |
| 21:35.44 | Jayce^ | heh |
| 21:36.24 | mheath | Jayce^, how so? |
| 21:37.40 | Jayce^ | based on just what you said, had something similar happen in an old truck once.. engine was giving all it could, and it would drive, just barely... acceleration was near non-existant, and the top end kept coming down |
| 21:39.49 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | RyanE: no, it means 7:30 can now be replaced |
| 21:39.57 | mheath | Jayce^, this is a brand new manual transmission. The car went from being fine one morning to having problems in the afternoon. |
| 21:40.24 | maquis | ha! |
| 21:40.26 | RyanE | m{\w{5}_Jesse}: I think you're misinterpreting me... I just said something was a FAD unless it'd been around for 10 years, not that everything that had been around that long should be replaced. |
| 21:40.38 | maquis | almost works |
| 21:40.38 | RyanE | mheath: transmission oil? |
| 21:40.40 | maquis | doesn't die, at least |
| 21:40.58 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | RyanE: no, I said by the time it hits 10 years it's time for something new |
| 21:41.15 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | I was quoting myself |
| 21:41.20 | RyanE | yeah, like Web 2.0... hehe |
| 21:41.25 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | RyanE: yup |
| 21:41.33 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | and the new e-mail standards floating around |
| 21:41.54 | mheath | RyanE, let me put it this way: My dad, who has a masters degree in engineering, and 40 years of experience working on cars, said that it isn't the transmisson. |
| 21:41.58 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | and the new couch I just bought |
| 21:42.36 | RyanE | mheath: let me put it this way. It's really easy and cheap to pull the transmission dipstick and look. |
| 21:43.41 | mheath | RyanE, I already checked the transmission oil. And, actually, it requires jacking up the car and removing a bolt to check if the oil level is level with the bolt hole. |
| 21:44.24 | RyanE | ok, valid point. how about this: it's much easier to just type 'tranny oil ok' than to type something about your dad's experience level. |
| 21:44.34 | maquis | ok... i'm not seeing this anywhere on google... |
| 21:44.50 | maquis | what does it mean when postgresql says "ERROR: permission denied for relation logins" |
| 21:45.04 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | I had the same problems with my manual transmission excort - it was the clutch in that case |
| 21:45.11 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | escort |
| 21:45.36 | RyanE | mheath: is the clutch engaging at the top of the pedal action or the bottom, or in the middle? |
| 21:45.57 | mheath | at the top, very early, like normal. |
| 21:46.24 | RyanE | what do you mean, very early? I don't get it. |
| 21:46.51 | RyanE | when my clutch was recently replaced, the action went from when pedal was almost all the way released to nearly the bottom, until it wore in a bit. |
| 21:47.06 | RyanE | now it's comfortably in the middle of the pedal action. |
| 21:47.08 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | sounds like it could be a hydraulics issue, or your clutch |
| 21:47.08 | mheath | It engages quickly. At the top. |
| 21:47.49 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | possibly not the clutch if it's already engaged when you start accelerating slowly |
| 21:47.59 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | leak in hydraulics? |
| 21:48.13 | RyanE | yeah, my clutch would engage, but only lightly, and if I floored it, it made the acceleration WORSE. |
| 21:48.24 | RyanE | like, slip down the hill backwards worse. |
| 21:48.27 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | yeah - sounds like the issues I had |
| 21:49.24 | flyboy^ | mheath: Any sounds/chattering/etc on engaging the clutch? |
| 21:49.32 | mheath | No. |
| 21:49.43 | mheath | The clutch feels and behaves exactly like normal. |
| 21:50.04 | flyboy^ | mheath: I never caught the make/model. |
| 21:50.16 | mheath | Mitsubishi Gallant |
| 21:50.30 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | mheath: but you said on hills it only accelerates very slowly |
| 21:50.48 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | so the clutch or something isn't behaving as desired |
| 21:51.15 | flyboy^ | mheath: My guess is the pressure plate, or some other clutch linkage issue. |
| 21:51.27 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | yeah - sounds like something in the line of the clutch |
| 21:51.32 | macnewbold | why was your clutch replaced recently? |
| 21:51.54 | mheath | The previous one had some problems. |
| 21:52.28 | flyboy^ | On a FWD clutch link problems suck, cause ya normally have to pull the engine a bit to get at it. |
| 21:54.16 | flyboy^ | Pressure plate would describe the symtoms you are having - I believe. Slow acceleration, but the clutch does engange normally - and the engine is producing power. |
| 21:54.25 | flyboy^ | Well, that's my $.02 |
| 21:54.40 | macnewbold | could the previous problems be related to the current one? I.e. maybe the clutch replacement wasn't the entire problem? |
| 21:55.16 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | each of us secretly wants to know who's right |
| 21:55.29 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | geek = always right |
| 21:55.35 | flyboy^ | Screw secretly. I'd love to know what's right. |
| 21:55.49 | flyboy^ | Car problems interest me about as much as any problem. Including computers. |
| 21:56.10 | RyanE | yeah, something tasty about mechanical issues. especially if they're not happening to you. |
| 21:56.13 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | to be king of geeks though you have to always be right |
| 21:56.20 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | he who is right most gets to be king |
| 21:56.27 | flyboy^ | I'll let RMS be the king. |
| 21:56.33 | maquis | w00t!!!!!! |
| 21:56.36 | flyboy^ | He's got more facial hair than I do. |
| 21:56.38 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | RMS sometimes is wrong though |
| 21:56.47 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | </flamebait> |
| 21:59.00 | atoponce | mheath: ping |
| 21:59.56 | mheath | pong |
| 22:05.51 | *** join/#utah JoeyDay|wgu (n=JoeyDay@205.124.151.254) |
| 22:06.03 | *** join/#utah RyanE_ (i=Piadas@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 22:06.21 | *** join/#utah bzob_l (n=bzob_l@209.205.212.38) |
| 22:06.26 | *** part/#utah bzob_l (n=bzob_l@209.205.212.38) |
| 22:07.23 | beandog | ~lart mysql |
| 22:07.36 | *** join/#utah mheath_ (i=Mike@c-67-182-231-23.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 22:07.41 | beandog | we all know that SQL Server 2000 is the future. :b |
| 22:07.46 | emcnabb | http://www.zillow.com/ |
| 22:07.48 | atoponce | BLEH! |
| 22:07.58 | emcnabb | cool site; you may have seen it already |
| 22:08.44 | atoponce | i wouldn't use sql server even if i was paid. bloated and ugly! |
| 22:09.09 | beandog | youre not just whistling dixie |
| 22:09.11 | RyanE_ | emcnabb: the first time I saw Zillow, it valued my house at 2.1M $... |
| 22:09.18 | RyanE_ | apparently, their database had some holes. |
| 22:09.22 | mheath_ | ping |
| 22:09.48 | mheath_ | This is odd..... |
| 22:09.52 | tene | what country is .pa the country code for? |
| 22:09.56 | mheath_ | my cable TV just went dead |
| 22:10.01 | mheath_ | but my cable internet still works |
| 22:10.02 | mheath_ | hmmm |
| 22:11.06 | RyanE | then the next time I looked at Zillow, it's estimate was my tax record value. |
| 22:11.13 | RyanE | now it has something more along the lines of what it would sell for. |
| 22:12.32 | flyboy^ | zillow.com - "we do not support the opera browser" :( |
| 22:13.33 | Jayce^ | has my place for a *lot* less than we could get.. since we've never done an appraisal or anything, and no other information |
| 22:13.44 | Jayce^ | still, listed for a lot more than we paid :) |
| 22:15.04 | RyanE | Jayce^: where are you located? |
| 22:15.11 | Jayce^ | The ranches.. |
| 22:15.26 | Jayce^ | they have some neighbors houses updated, that have sold/appraised recently |
| 22:15.44 | Jayce^ | they are more in line, but ours never has, so we're following a general appreciation rate |
| 22:16.28 | RyanE | mine hasn't had anything else reported / changed, but it's pretty funny that Zillow has estimated it anywhere from 250K to 2.1M |
| 22:16.40 | RyanE | within about 3 months. |
| 22:22.07 | Jayce^ | yeah, they show the house behind us for 221, because it just sold near that.. and yet it was a foreclosure that was trashed (no landscaping, unfinished basement, etc.) we have a lot more going for us |
| 22:24.50 | RyanE | a friend of mine just sold his Eagle Mountain house. I wonder how much he sold for. |
| 22:27.26 | *** join/#utah herlo (n=clints@static-71-249-195-235.nycmny.east.verizon.net) |
| 22:31.05 | Jayce^ | RyanE, yeah, houses are going like hotcackes here right now |
| 22:31.32 | RyanE | herlo: what did you guys play last night? |
| 22:32.24 | herlo | I played, try to keep the baby quiet while I tried to sleep on the plane...I didn't win |
| 22:32.40 | herlo | don't know what Chris and Justin played..as they were the only ones I saw when I left... |
| 22:33.06 | *** join/#utah ltblackkat (n=180424ba@spitfire.atarack.com) |
| 22:33.09 | xbmodder_newlapp | ltblackkat, hey |
| 22:33.21 | RyanE | hehe. sorry about that. |
| 22:33.28 | xbmodder_newlapp | ltblackkat, type this "/join #atarack" |
| 22:34.02 | herlo | RyanE: no biggie, the mother was very nice, and apologized profusely. I told her it was no big deal since I am just sitting in training this week... |
| 22:34.07 | mheath_ | Oh, yah. xbmodder, the 15 year old virtual machine provider, managed to drag yet another person who lives in Utah into #utah! |
| 22:34.17 | mheath_ | *who doesn't live in Utah |
| 22:34.24 | xbmodder_newlapp | mheath_, She lived in Utah |
| 22:34.28 | xbmodder_newlapp | She is LDS |
| 22:36.33 | xbmodder_newlapp | ltblackkat, these are the utahnians I was talking bout |
| 22:38.01 | atoponce | utahnians or utahns? |
| 22:38.27 | ltblackkat | i thought it was utahns |
| 22:38.38 | xbmodder_newlapp | I have no idea? |
| 22:38.43 | xbmodder_newlapp | You are confusing me! |
| 22:38.44 | ltblackkat | because you aren't one |
| 22:38.51 | ltblackkat | lol |
| 22:39.19 | bonez41 | "utahn" is correct |
| 22:39.20 | xbmodder_newlapp | ~lart ltblackkat |
| 22:39.34 | ltblackkat | i win...again |
| 22:39.49 | xbmodder_newlapp | :-| |
| 22:39.50 | ltblackkat | so...does anyone have any tips on surviving trek? |
| 22:40.35 | xbmodder_newlapp | ~trek |
| 22:41.10 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | just enough south, just enough west |
| 22:42.10 | xbmodder_newlapp | Anyone here! |
| 22:42.42 | ltblackkat | apparently not |
| 22:42.52 | xbmodder_newlapp | ltblackkat, say something intelligent |
| 22:43.11 | ltblackkat | ok |
| 22:44.17 | ltblackkat | sorry |
| 22:44.26 | ltblackkat | can't think of anything intelligent |
| 22:44.38 | ltblackkat | so, what do you people do for fun? |
| 22:45.10 | atoponce | don't try to bend the spoon. that's impossible. rather, accept the truth. |
| 22:45.23 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 22:45.43 | beandog | does mysql support views? |
| 22:45.55 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | beandog: I think 5.0 does now |
| 22:46.12 | elg | -lart vontrapp |
| 22:46.12 | atoponce | not sure. i'm so caught up in importing dbf, that i haven't been paying attention to anything else |
| 22:47.00 | beandog | whats dbf? |
| 22:47.07 | *** join/#utah brac (n=rbot@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 22:47.10 | atoponce | dbase format |
| 22:47.15 | beandog | ah |
| 22:47.16 | atoponce | foxpro uses it |
| 22:47.19 | beandog | ick. |
| 22:47.23 | beandog | cant you use odbc? |
| 22:47.25 | atoponce | it's what our clients send us at work |
| 22:47.25 | beandog | or, adodb |
| 22:47.36 | atoponce | trying jdbc, but it isn't working |
| 22:47.51 | atoponce | maybe i don't know the right class name and connection string |
| 22:48.09 | elg | -lart vontrapp |
| 22:52.23 | xbmodder_newlapp | mheath_, Aren't you supposed to be in training or something? |
| 22:53.58 | xbmodder_newlapp | heh |
| 22:55.34 | elg | hey, be nice to the wall |
| 22:55.38 | elg | what'd it ever to do you? |
| 22:56.47 | *** part/#utah beandog (n=sdibb@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 23:02.45 | elg | here's a challenge: i'm going to get about 100 emails in the next 4 weeks with the wrong MIME type for the .tar.gz attachment. It should be application/x-gtar but it is application/x-gzip |
| 23:02.52 | elg | how do I rectify that with procmail? |
| 23:04.01 | elg | (you may ask, why do I care - because mutt autoview does.) |
| 23:04.23 | macnewbold | I'd try to pipe it through sed somehow perhaps? |
| 23:06.03 | elg | I think you've got something |
| 23:06.16 | elg | ------=_Part_142854_26522550.1152737214803 |
| 23:06.16 | elg | Content-Type: application/x-gzip; name="lab0.tar.gz" |
| 23:06.18 | elg | that's seddable |
| 23:08.23 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | he - he said that's seddable |
| 23:08.57 | tene | Yes, he did. |
| 23:11.41 | macnewbold | ~seddable |
| 23:11.49 | macnewbold | ~dict seddable |
| 23:11.52 | macnewbold | ~spell seddable |
| 23:12.44 | macnewbold | ibot: seddable is [adv.] "able to be sedded", see also sedded, sedding, sed. |
| 23:12.47 | ibot | macnewbold: okay |
| 23:13.07 | macnewbold | ibot: sedded is past participle of the verb "to sed" |
| 23:13.08 | ibot | macnewbold: okay |
| 23:13.13 | macnewbold | ~sed |
| 23:13.15 | ibot | GNU Stream Editor. URL: ftp://ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu/ |
| 23:13.50 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | tene: no, you're supposed to say, "heh - he said he said sed |
| 23:13.51 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | " |
| 23:14.13 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | badum-dum |
| 23:14.44 | macnewbold | ~rimshot m{\w{5}_Jesse} |
| 23:14.50 | macnewbold | ~rimshot |
| 23:14.52 | ibot | ch-ch-chhh |
| 23:21.37 | macnewbold | http://tinyurl.com/f88ga |
| 23:21.46 | macnewbold | ~wake brac |
| 23:21.47 | ibot | brac: GOOD MORNING!!! |
| 23:22.10 | macnewbold | it's an interesting report from a study on telecommuting |
| 23:27.00 | *** join/#utah findlay (n=justin@67.137.24.115) |
| 23:28.36 | findlay | anybody know the difference between ddns-update-styles is ? |
| 23:37.12 | elg | "An hypothesis could be that people still need the 'face time' with their bosses," |
| 23:37.18 | elg | um, yeah. that's exactly what employees want |
| 23:37.39 | elg | I wake up every day just jumping out of my skin to get some face time with my boss |
| 23:37.59 | flyboy^ | I enjoy sitting down with mine. |
| 23:38.10 | flyboy^ | He's a pretty cool one though. |
| 23:38.19 | elg | pretty cool bosses are pretty cool |
| 23:38.25 | elg | but not the norm |
| 23:38.43 | *** join/#utah graphyx (n=mkling@24.144.57.161) |
| 23:38.49 | elg | even moderately cool bosses, employees would just as soon not have face time with at any given moment |
| 23:39.18 | flyboy^ | It depends on the personality I bet. Some ppl LOVE kissing, um, stuff. |
| 23:39.20 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | my last boss was a normal co-worker that we hung out and stuff before he got promoted to be my boss |
| 23:39.28 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | he was pretty cool to still hang out with |
| 23:39.37 | m{\w{5}_Jesse} | I could joke around with him no problem |
| 23:39.38 | maquis | i know that at a lot of companies, even if they allow telecommuting, those who telecommute are less likely to get promoted/recognized for work/etc |
| 23:40.14 | elg | true, and maybe that's what they mean |
| 23:40.22 | flyboy^ | All I can say about telecommuting is this.... how many problems have been solved around the water cooler? |
| 23:40.26 | elg | but it just made me laugh. out loud even. I was sitting there LOL |
| 23:40.46 | maquis | that would be my guess as to one reason why people don't telecommute... i don't think that's what they are saying... |
| 23:41.07 | elg | face time with coworkers I wouldn't have laughed at |
| 23:41.12 | maquis | i think for most jobs, even for things like programming, if you work in a group, telecommuting is harder |
| 23:41.23 | elg | face time with coworkers in a supervisory position I wouldn't even have laughed at |
| 23:41.48 | elg | maquis: depends on your definition of "work in a group" |
| 23:42.03 | elg | if some group of 2+ people are on-site together, then it's very hard to stay "in it" |
| 23:42.16 | elg | but if everyone's remote, it can work alright |
| 23:42.30 | maquis | elg: true... |
| 23:42.44 | elg | assuming they can type fast enough to communicate over irc or IM |
| 23:43.05 | macnewbold | that's a big one |
| 23:43.10 | macnewbold | unless you're a big skyper or something |
| 23:43.17 | maquis | elg: just thinking back to high school (commuter school) where all group projects ended up being a massive pain because i lived an hour north of the school, and another kid in the group lived an hour south of school, etc |
| 23:43.20 | macnewbold | we've even used video chat over aim/ichat |
| 23:44.10 | elg | macnewbold: yeah but you have to be careful not to spend more time tweaking the AV equipment/software than working |
| 23:44.16 | macnewbold | hehe, yeah |
| 23:44.21 | macnewbold | with Apple though, it's a no-brainer |
| 23:44.33 | macnewbold | built-in isights are sweet hawtness |
| 23:44.55 | macnewbold | and another guy has a digital video cam that he just plugs in and it truly "just works" |
| 23:45.02 | flyboy^ | I think the problem with ppl working at home is that many ppl just get too distracted. They end up doing X to the house rather than work. |
| 23:45.16 | elg | or watching X |
| 23:45.19 | elg | or playing X |
| 23:45.19 | macnewbold | I wouldn't dream of doing it form a Windows box or on my BSD boxen |
| 23:45.25 | flyboy^ | Or have many more distractions than you might have at work. |
| 23:45.38 | elg | but then there's always IRC if you need a distraction |
| 23:45.40 | macnewbold | yeah, you've got to really be able to isolate yourself at home |
| 23:46.02 | macnewbold | and many people can't isolate themselves from themselves and their home well enough |
| 23:46.07 | macnewbold | not to mention distractions like IRC and slashdot... |
| 23:46.22 | elg | those are omnipresent |
| 23:46.32 | flyboy^ | yeah, those distract ppl any way. ;) |
| 23:47.11 | macnewbold | yeah, no doubt |
| 23:47.11 | elg | man, I wanted to set up this cool autoreply in procmail that checks that the tarball builds and all that |
| 23:47.14 | flyboy^ | I'm thinking things like kids, your toys, tv, the couch in the living room, a wandering browser, your xbox, etc. |
| 23:47.25 | elg | but the mail server is a SunOS box that I can't log into |
| 23:47.36 | elg | maybe I'll forward them to my personal acct |
| 23:47.50 | elg | or maybe a cron job |
| 23:47.57 | elg | on a certain folder |
| 23:54.44 | macnewbold | yeah, those would work |
| 23:55.15 | macnewbold | if it's a regular mbox folder, you can just run sed on the whole thing and it will fix any busted ones |
| 23:55.43 | elg | well I got the fix the mime type problem fixed |
