| 00:06.40 | *** join/#utah RyanE_ (i=Piadas@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
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| 04:08.09 | xbmodder_newlapp | ~madagascar |
| 04:08.12 | xbmodder_newlapp | Toga party? |
| 04:08.14 | xbmodder_newlapp | .... |
| 04:29.15 | elg | @!#@!@#%@# |
| 04:30.16 | elg | the ebay auction I won a week ago, they guy selling is awol |
| 04:30.27 | elg | paypal payment still unclaimed, emails bounce |
| 04:31.32 | elg | they guy's 99.8% positive feedback at 519 |
| 04:47.07 | xbmodder_newlapp | lol |
| 04:58.41 | *** join/#utah herlo (n=upirc@001-838-498.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 04:59.53 | herlo | ibot: honey shiv is Kuyaedz's ultimate weapon in Carcassonne |
| 04:59.55 | ibot | okay, herlo |
| 05:01.10 | herlo | ibot: honeyshiv is Kuyaedz ultimate weapon is Carcassonne |
| 05:01.12 | ibot | okay, herlo |
| 05:01.53 | herlo | ibot: honeyshiv |
| 05:01.55 | ibot | hmm... honeyshiv is Kuyaedz ultimate weapon is Carcassonne |
| 05:02.17 | herlo | ibot lock honeyshiv |
| 05:03.04 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@205.208.239.31) |
| 05:03.17 | herlo | ibot herlo |
| 05:03.18 | ibot | well, herlo is the best boardgamer ever, works for Guru Labs and generally reads good things his friends lend him |
| 05:03.41 | *** part/#utah herlo (n=upirc@001-838-498.area1.spcsdns.net) |
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| 05:46.56 | elg | ah hah. you can get the telephone number for a seller when you're the high bidder |
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| 06:15.55 | findlay | http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20060617185813203 |
| 06:16.00 | findlay | man, that is funny |
| 06:16.01 | brac | [GROKLAW] |
| 06:18.30 | *** join/#utah HoneyShiv (n=HoneyShi@kuyaedz.fttp.xmission.com) |
| 06:23.30 | findlay | man that is one funny hoax |
| 06:23.44 | findlay | probably by some German guy |
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| 06:24.27 | herlo_home | hey HoneyShiv |
| 06:24.33 | herlo_home | ~honeyshiv |
| 06:24.39 | ibot | somebody said honeyshiv was Kuyaedz ultimate weapon is Carcassonne |
| 06:24.48 | findlay | ~herlo_home: |
| 06:24.50 | findlay | ~herlo_home |
| 06:24.57 | herlo_home | ~findlay |
| 06:24.58 | ibot | i heard findlay is wanting a SuSE-10.0 rock, or ibot is wierd, or asking too much of you, or crazy |
| 06:25.01 | findlay | ~me |
| 06:25.03 | ibot | methinks findlay is wanting a SuSE-10.0 rock, or ibot is wierd, or asking too much of you, or crazy |
| 06:25.26 | herlo_home | ibot: herlo_home is herlo at home, plus he loves BBQs |
| 06:25.27 | ibot | herlo_home: okay |
| 06:30.38 | HoneyShiv | herlo is a weirdo |
| 06:31.22 | findlay | ~date |
| 06:31.24 | ibot | It is now 2006.06.18 6:31:24 GMT |
| 06:31.46 | herlo_home | hey findlay, so GMT and UTC are off by 1hr right now, correct? |
| 06:32.14 | herlo_home | HoneyShiv, why the mean comment? |
| 06:32.19 | findlay | http://www.groklaw.net/comment.php?mode=display&sid=20060617185813203&title=Great....&type=article&order=&hideanonymous=0&pid=0#c451151 |
| 06:32.23 | brac | [GROKLAW] |
| 06:32.25 | herlo_home | I was nice all night long wasn't I? |
| 06:32.28 | findlay | lol@that |
| 06:33.00 | findlay | I thought GMT == UTC |
| 06:33.32 | herlo_home | findlay, me too, but do the math |
| 06:33.53 | HoneyShiv | herlo: truth hurts |
| 06:34.14 | herlo_home | if GMT == UTC and MDT = UTC - 7 then why is MDT = GMT - 6? |
| 06:34.34 | herlo_home | HoneyShiv: I am wierd, just thought you were pickin' on me |
| 06:34.41 | mheath | herlo_home, because that makes no sense? |
| 06:34.55 | mheath | Unless one of those numbers is a typo. |
| 06:34.58 | HoneyShiv | did you think about daylight savings time? |
| 06:35.01 | findlay | herlo_home: because it's MDT, not MST right now |
| 06:35.04 | herlo_home | yeah, that's my point |
| 06:35.13 | herlo_home | no, its MDT right now |
| 06:35.14 | findlay | http://www.openlinux.org/releasedetail.cfm?id=21370 |
| 06:35.24 | mheath | findlay, its a joke. |
| 06:35.26 | herlo_home | findlay: agreed |
| 06:35.27 | findlay | the URL doesn't load for me ): |
| 06:35.34 | mheath | findlay, its a hack. |
| 06:35.40 | mheath | 1) It makes no sense. |
| 06:35.46 | findlay | mheath: no it's not, they're seriousness!@!! |
| 06:36.13 | mheath | 2) The web page is designed to look more serious and professional than it is. For instance, the "id" art of the URL is completely worthless; id=31337 or id=1 will give you the same thing |
| 06:36.23 | herlo_home | findlay: does GMT actually have daylight savings time too? |
| 06:36.32 | herlo_home | if so, that would possibly make sense |
| 06:36.45 | herlo_home | but you are right UTC = MST - 7 not MDT |
| 06:36.52 | mheath | herlo_home, that question doesn't make sense |
| 06:36.58 | herlo_home | so to restate |
| 06:37.00 | mheath | "does GMT actually have daylight savings time too?" |
| 06:37.12 | herlo_home | mheath: how does that not make sense? |
| 06:37.19 | findlay | caldera will release teh One True Linuxzen and we'll all cower before the 2.5 Linux codebase merged with the superior SCOX(R) UNIX(R) SYSTEM LABORTORIES(R) InTeLlEcTuAl PrOpErTy(R TM) |
| 06:37.25 | mheath | None of the *** timezones have daylight savings time; theres different abbreviations for daylight savings time and not |
| 06:37.28 | mheath | MST versus MDT |
| 06:37.33 | herlo_home | not everyone uses Daylight savings time |
| 06:37.55 | herlo_home | AZT for instance |
| 06:38.02 | herlo_home | that would be Arizona Time |
| 06:38.12 | mheath | You don't say "Does MST have daylight savings time", because when your in dayliht savings time your using MDT, not MST. |
| 06:38.12 | herlo_home | ~date |
| 06:38.14 | ibot | It is now 2006.06.18 6:38:14 GMT |
| 06:38.27 | herlo_home | but GMT never changes, thus my point, |
| 06:38.38 | tene | Also, Daylight savings time leads to inconsistencies in records of time |
| 06:38.39 | herlo_home | does GMT actually do Daylight Savings time |
| 06:38.49 | herlo_home | tene: agreed, that's why there is UTC |
| 06:38.52 | mheath | timezones make no sense in my opinion, anyway. |
| 06:38.56 | findlay | I for one welcome our new Linux-2.5 UNIX(R) SCO(R) DARL(R) OVERLOARDS(R) |
| 06:39.15 | herlo_home | findlay: nobody believes you |
| 06:39.17 | mheath | especially daylights savings time |
| 06:39.31 | findlay | herlo_home: did you not see the site yet? |
| 06:39.37 | herlo_home | yeah, I saw it |
| 06:39.46 | findlay | it won't load for me ): |
| 06:39.59 | mheath | findlay, thats because its hosted at a university in Germany. |
| 06:40.00 | herlo_home | which link, the one about sco and slashdot? |
| 06:40.13 | findlay | -urls 1 |
| 06:40.14 | brac | [2006/06/18 00:35:18] <findlay> http://www.openlinux.org/releasedetail.cfm?id=21370 |
| 06:40.17 | findlay | that one |
| 06:41.15 | findlay | mheath: what does that have to do with it not loading? |
| 06:41.29 | mheath | findlay, actually, I don't know why its not loading. |
| 06:41.40 | findlay | has teh SCOX(R) already overtaken Germany? |
| 06:41.51 | mheath | findlay, just saying, its at a random, weird, possibly not reliable location. But it still works for me. |
| 06:42.01 | findlay | no fair |
| 06:42.05 | mheath | WTF? The page source has like 50 lines of whitespace before it gets to the page |
| 06:42.10 | findlay | what if you reload it? |
| 06:42.11 | herlo_home | findlay: read it, sort of |
| 06:42.39 | herlo_home | mheath: that tactic is used to make it so its harder to read the source of the page so you wont steal it or something.... |
| 06:42.42 | findlay | herlo_home: it's the funniest thing this month. I should blog about it |
| 06:43.08 | herlo_home | I've seen it employed on many business sites |
| 06:43.11 | mheath | herlo_home, yeah, I'm sure I'd have trouble. But then someone invented the scroll bar, so I could go down.. |
| 06:43.24 | herlo_home | yeah, I know, what's the point really |
| 06:43.24 | mheath | herlo_home, Its not some weird pseudo cryptography |
| 06:43.33 | mheath | Its just like 50 blank lines before you get to anything |
| 06:43.51 | herlo_home | If you are smart, just use your scroll mouse |
| 06:44.18 | findlay | "Our formerly franchised LINUX(R) OPERATING SYSTEM will now sport the Linux-1.9 kernel merged with our fantastic UNIX(R) methods(R) and concepts(R)" |
| 06:44.41 | findlay | somebody stop me |
| 06:44.45 | findlay | ~stop me |
| 06:44.46 | ibot | ACTION leaps to his feet and stops findlay |
| 06:46.13 | mheath | findlay, the thing is horribly written too |
| 06:46.36 | mheath | Weird grammer mistakes, a weird insistance on adding (R)s after SCO stuff but not adding it after stuff owned by other companies |
| 06:47.06 | mheath | Factual mistakes, legal errors, and unnerving confidence that they're going to win the court battle, and win it soon |
| 06:47.58 | mheath | it also says Caldera OpenLinux 10 is known as "OpenLinux X" then proceeds to call it OpenLinux X thorughoutt, until you get to the end, and then it switches back to OpenLinux 10 |
| 06:50.50 | xbmodder_newlapp | Anyone here work for verisign? |
| 06:51.02 | xbmodder_newlapp | or anyone else with a root SSL private key? |
| 06:51.10 | mheath | And, apparently, they've jumped from version 6 to version 10. |
| 06:51.14 | findlay | no, thank all that is good |
| 06:51.16 | tene | I have a tortilla and some wheat thins! |
| 06:51.18 | tene | That count? |
| 06:51.19 | xbmodder_newlapp | That doesn't make sense |
| 06:51.30 | xbmodder_newlapp | I need SSL cert |
| 06:51.32 | xbmodder_newlapp | :-( |
| 06:51.40 | findlay | xbmodder_newlapp: did you see the fake site? |
| 06:51.45 | tene | So... um... make a self-signed one or buy one. |
| 06:52.08 | mheath | Plus: "SCO owns the core UNIX operating system, originally developed by AT&T/Bell Labs and is the exclusive licensor to Unix-based system software providers." |
| 06:52.11 | findlay | xbmodder_newlapp: you can get a trial verisign cert for 30 days |
| 06:52.13 | xbmodder_newlapp | findlay, I found a site that offers free private keys |
| 06:52.15 | xbmodder_newlapp | hehe |
| 06:52.26 | mheath | A specific point was made of making the Open Group a specifically seperate entity from SCO |
| 06:52.40 | findlay | xbmodder_newlapp: probably used by phishers or something |
| 06:52.49 | xbmodder_newlapp | tene, would you trust a self-signed for a shopping cart? |
| 06:52.54 | mheath | The Open group, not SCO, owns "UNIX" and decides what is UNIX and what is not. It is the exclusive licensor of what makes UNIX well...UNIX. |
| 06:52.55 | xbmodder_newlapp | findlay, heh, it was a Scam. |
| 06:53.10 | tene | xbmodder_newlapp: no, but you didn't say what you needed it for. |
| 06:53.10 | xbmodder_newlapp | its one time 500 |
| 06:53.38 | xbmodder_newlapp | tene, I need a number of them, like for support, ordering, management, etc... |
| 06:54.08 | mheath | findlay, what me to copy/paste interesting bits? |
| 06:54.11 | tene | xbmodder_newlapp: get one for *.yoursite.com |
| 06:54.53 | xbmodder_newlapp | tene, how much can I get one for (non-godaddy) |
| 06:54.58 | tene | I have no clue. |
| 06:55.05 | tene | Go buy one and find out. |
| 06:55.13 | tene | If you want to run a business, there are costs. |
| 06:55.54 | findlay | mheath: I've already read it |
| 06:56.03 | mheath | findlay, you siad it wouldn't load. |
| 06:56.14 | findlay | I read it on groklaw |
| 06:56.21 | mheath | Ah, OK |
| 06:56.33 | mheath | hahah, xbmodder_newlapp's starting a business? Doing what? |
| 06:56.48 | findlay | mheath: haven't you been paying attention lately? |
| 06:56.52 | findlay | ? |
| 06:57.12 | mheath | *hear |
| 06:57.19 | mheath | findlay, meh, I work too much for that :( |
| 06:57.48 | xbmodder_newlapp | mheath, .... |
| 06:57.55 | xbmodder_newlapp | thats not funny... |
| 06:58.07 | tene | I think it is. |
| 06:58.28 | mheath | xbmodder_newlapp, well, what are you selling? |
| 06:58.34 | findlay | yeah mheath, by the time you get out of basic, xbmodder_newlapp will be a Sillicon Valley darling teenage millionaire |
| 06:58.36 | xbmodder_newlapp | VPSes |
| 06:59.17 | mheath | OK. Considering that there are entire search engines dedicated to fidning a webhosting provider, with hundreds of providers that focus on VPSs..... |
| 06:59.29 | findlay | ibot: xbmodder_newlapp is by the time mheath gets out of basic, he will be a Sillicon Valley darling teenage millionaire |
| 06:59.38 | ibot | okay, findlay |
| 06:59.55 | mheath | Providers that have hundreds of machines, and can shave costs because of high availability and the sheer number of customers they have.... |
| 07:00.01 | mheath | Why should someone go with you? |
| 07:00.19 | findlay | because xbmodder_newlapp r0x0rz |
| 07:00.34 | mheath | xbmodder_newlapp, I'm not trying to give you a hard time - thats just a question you have to answer to be succesful at business. What reason is there for a customer to go with you over a customer? |
| 07:00.40 | xbmodder_newlapp | mheath, because when you call in you don't get some outsourced employee in a call center, you get the owner of the company. |
| 07:00.53 | xbmodder_newlapp | Reasons: |
| 07:01.10 | xbmodder_newlapp | You get support who knows what they are doing |
| 07:01.23 | xbmodder_newlapp | Our policies are very open |
| 07:01.25 | tene | Support who doesn't know how to get an SSL cert. |
| 07:01.45 | xbmodder_newlapp | tene, I know, but I was looking at reviews of godaddy, and people have had problems |
| 07:02.04 | QBFreak | tene! |
| 07:02.08 | tene | Cubey! |
| 07:02.10 | xbmodder_newlapp | tene, I was looking for someone who has/had a reseller account. |
| 07:02.22 | mheath | xbmodder_newlapp, You're asking in a LUG channel a question about SSL certification. Outsourcing or not, I'd rather call up at 2 AM when my server goes down and talk to someone, rather than have no one because the only person I can call is asleep so he's ready for his test in school. |
| 07:02.23 | xbmodder_newlapp | and can get me very low prices |
| 07:03.07 | xbmodder_newlapp | mheath, I will wake up, two AM or not. |
| 07:03.24 | xbmodder_newlapp | I stated my reason for asking about the SSL ceritificate. |
| 07:03.33 | xbmodder_newlapp | me/nick are callable |
| 07:03.36 | mheath | xbmodder_newlapp, OK. So the servers are at some datacenter elsewhere, then, right? |
| 07:03.47 | xbmodder_newlapp | yes.... |
| 07:03.51 | xbmodder_newlapp | ~obvious |
| 07:04.00 | mheath | Say I give you $100 to host my VPS on one of these servers |
| 07:04.22 | xbmodder_newlapp | mheath, yes... |
| 07:04.24 | mheath | And, at 2 AM in the morning, one of them goes down for some reason. |
| 07:04.40 | mheath | I have a business I'm hosting on a webserver in this VPS |
| 07:04.49 | mheath | I'm losing money every minute my server is down |
| 07:05.01 | xbmodder_newlapp | then I'd reccomend you get the managed account |
| 07:05.06 | mheath | And I've paid you a considerable amount of money, soley to make sure that my website stays up. |
| 07:05.24 | mheath | How are you going to fix my issue quickly, at 2AM in the morning? |
| 07:05.24 | xbmodder_newlapp | yes. Then our alarm goes off (very loud) |
| 07:05.33 | xbmodder_newlapp | as quickly as possible |
| 07:05.44 | mheath | xbmodder_newlapp, but the hardware is elsewhere, and managed by someone else. |
| 07:06.02 | mheath | Plenty of colocation centers offer direct VPS packages |
| 07:06.10 | tene | < xbmodder> OMG guys my server is down I need to fix it does anyone know how to $foo? |
| 07:06.14 | xbmodder_newlapp | mheath, We've already had problems with our DC, we are moving to somewhere with a better remote hands service |
| 07:06.40 | QBFreak | mheath: short of needing to reboot the machine (which these days often can be done remotely), how is there an issue that he can't handle remotely? |
| 07:06.42 | findlay | yes! |
| 07:07.00 | mheath | I can host directly with the company that owns the colo center, and operates the hardware - all those facilities have people on 24 hours a day, ready to fix any issue. |
| 07:07.01 | xbmodder_newlapp | QBFreak, I have found the only issue that a reboot doesn't fix is disk problems |
| 07:07.19 | xbmodder_newlapp | mheath, and have you ever called in for support at one of these companies |
| 07:07.19 | mheath | QBFreak, hardware failure. |
| 07:08.13 | xbmodder_newlapp | mheath, if the hardware has failed, we move you over to a temporary location |
| 07:08.19 | mheath | xbmodder_newlapp, Yes, and I've experienced good help. |
| 07:08.25 | xbmodder_newlapp | mheath, with who? |
| 07:08.31 | findlay | Caldera Open Linu-X. Hahaha |
| 07:08.40 | mheath | xbmodder_newlapp, how long does this take? |
| 07:08.50 | findlay | somebody had too much time hacking around with the DNS records |
| 07:08.53 | mheath | Remember, I'm running a business off my website. I'm losing money every minute it isn't up. |
| 07:09.00 | mheath | You start selling to people, it isn't a game |
| 07:09.04 | xbmodder_newlapp | mheath, 100 minutes... |
| 07:09.19 | mheath | Your not doing this for fun, for friends that you can simply shrug when they complain about downtime |
| 07:09.25 | mheath | You're dealing with people who loose money because of your actions |
| 07:09.34 | xbmodder_newlapp | mheath, if you have the business account usually about 10 minutes |
| 07:09.34 | mheath | because of downtime, because of errors, because of unconcern |
| 07:09.43 | xbmodder_newlapp | I have already had problems with the DV |
| 07:09.44 | xbmodder_newlapp | *DC |
| 07:09.49 | QBFreak | mheath: why are you so bent out of shape about this? |
| 07:10.15 | findlay | QBFreak: somebody stole mheath's cookie this morning |
| 07:10.18 | xbmodder_newlapp | I have screamed directly at the owner of this (8 million dollar) DC, and they don't care... |
| 07:10.24 | tene | Cubey: because xbm is generally incompetent, as judged by his general statements in this channel since he's been around here. |
| 07:10.44 | tene | And he's trying to start a business. |
| 07:10.55 | tene | xbm: that's a lame datacenter, then. |
| 07:11.01 | xbmodder_newlapp | tene, give me a theoretical problem. |
| 07:11.04 | mheath | QBFreak, One, because I think its funny. And two, I'm concerned that xbmodder_newlapp is going to try and take on some serious customers, somehow snag one or two, and then end up in serious trouble when they realize that hes a 14 (15?) year old with no business license, no direct responsibility, and the possibility that he could simply lose interest and shutdown their service at any moment if he felt like it. |
| 07:11.21 | xbmodder_newlapp | mheath, I am incorporated. |
| 07:11.35 | xbmodder_newlapp | so thats one thing your wrong about |
| 07:11.45 | mheath | xbmodder_newlapp, with who? |
| 07:11.47 | xbmodder_newlapp | me and nick125 have joint ownership over Atarack |
| 07:11.51 | findlay | xbmodder_newlapp: how about the three body problem? What do you think about that? |
| 07:12.53 | xbmodder_newlapp | findlay, excuse me, physics is not my strong point |
| 07:13.06 | xbmodder_newlapp | mheath, all of our current customers know I am 14 |
| 07:13.08 | xbmodder_newlapp | *15 |
| 07:13.23 | mheath | haha |
| 07:13.26 | xbmodder_newlapp | mheath, Do you think you could do better? |
| 07:13.38 | findlay | xbmodder_newlapp: it was supposed to be a joke |
| 07:13.57 | xbmodder_newlapp | findlay, I didn't know how to answer that... |
| 07:14.07 | xbmodder_newlapp | even as a joke. |
| 07:14.28 | findlay | xbmodder_newlapp: the three body problem has been (in)famously unsolved for centuries |
| 07:14.33 | findlay | (: |
| 07:14.42 | tene | xbm: all real business owners have a full understanding of the three-body problem. |
| 07:14.45 | herlo_home | ~date |
| 07:14.48 | ibot | It is now 2006.06.18 7:14:48 GMT |
| 07:15.01 | xbmodder_newlapp | heh |
| 07:15.05 | findlay | tene: lol |
| 07:15.07 | xbmodder_newlapp | herlo_home, what did you do? |
| 07:15.09 | herlo_home | at least when it comes to GMT, UTC, MDT |
| 07:15.11 | QBFreak | herlo_home: I don't think she's going ot go out with you |
| 07:15.29 | findlay | ibot: will you go out with herlo_home? |
| 07:15.33 | herlo_home | QBFreak: that's actually never been a problem, seeing as I haven't tried |
| 07:15.52 | QBFreak | and yet you asked for a date |
| 07:15.59 | herlo_home | to get a date in a while |
| 07:16.06 | findlay | he got a date |
| 07:16.07 | tene | ~fig |
| 07:16.21 | herlo_home | yeah, that date with ibot will last for only a small portion of time |
| 07:16.32 | herlo_home | an undeterminable amount |
| 07:16.35 | mheath | xbmodder_newlapp, woah! |
| 07:16.35 | findlay | xbmodder_newlapp: don't let mheath give you smack (: |
| 07:16.52 | xbmodder_newlapp | mheath, ? |
| 07:16.57 | herlo_home | so miniscule, it will not even affect the rotation of the earth |
| 07:16.59 | xbmodder_newlapp | whoa what? |
| 07:17.05 | mheath | xbmodder_newlapp, you've got to let me know what colo is giving you 50GB of bandwidth on a managed server for $13.99 month! Thats unbelievable! |
| 07:17.09 | herlo_home | http://sts.sunyit.edu/ |
| 07:17.16 | mheath | Well, less than $13.99 a month, because I'm assuming your making a profit |
| 07:17.18 | herlo_home | whoops |
| 07:17.45 | QBFreak | mheath: why would he? |
| 07:17.56 | herlo_home | http://www.apparent-wind.com/gmt-explained.html |
| 07:18.00 | xbmodder_newlapp | mheath, um, about 4.35 of that 13.95 goes to bandwidth... |
| 07:18.01 | brac | [A Few Facts Concerning GMT, UT, and the RGO] |
| 07:18.02 | QBFreak | not exactly good for business |
| 07:18.42 | mheath | xbmodder_newlapp, what about the managed hosting? |
| 07:19.08 | xbmodder_newlapp | Please inform me of your needs, and I will give you a quote. |
| 07:21.42 | xbmodder_newlapp | ? |
| 07:22.45 | xbmodder_newlapp | lol |
| 07:22.50 | QBFreak | SetHandler cgi-script ? |
| 07:23.02 | nick125_lappy | I want to make URLs like... |
| 07:23.17 | QBFreak | mod_rewrite? |
| 07:23.22 | xbmodder_newlapp | mheath, Do you have any other concerns that you would like me to address? |
| 07:23.27 | nick125_lappy | cgi-bin/handler.py/BlahHandler, which will execute a function in handler.py called "BlahHandler" |
| 07:23.56 | mheath | xbmodder_newlapp, well, one of your competitors offers 1GB of RAM (burstable to 3GB), 2 dedicated processors (burstable to 3), unlimited IPs, 60GB of HDD space, daily backups, full software and hardware management, 99.9% guaranteed uptime and a 15 day money back guarantee, for $75/month. How much would you charge me for these features? |
| 07:24.00 | QBFreak | I imagine that handler.py would need to look at the URL |
| 07:24.21 | xbmodder_newlapp | mheath, who |
| 07:24.34 | xbmodder_newlapp | hardware management? |
| 07:24.37 | xbmodder_newlapp | what the heck? |
| 07:24.45 | tene | Use mod_rewrite to point all /cgi-bin/handler.py/* to handler.py |
| 07:24.59 | mheath | xbmodder_newlapp, they mangage the hardware (as opposed to your outsourcing it to another company) |
| 07:25.12 | QBFreak | yeah, I meant to say what tene said :) |
| 07:25.13 | xbmodder_newlapp | mheath, isn't that a given with a VPS |
| 07:25.34 | tene | then (my $function) = $uri =~ m#cgi-bin/handler.py/(.*)#; |
| 07:25.38 | mheath | xbmodder_newlapp, apparently not. Like I said - you outsource your hardware management. |
| 07:25.45 | tene | &$function(); |
| 07:25.56 | tene | in perl |
| 07:26.00 | xbmodder_newlapp | mheath, May I know the URL of this plan? |
| 07:26.11 | xbmodder_newlapp | how can you burst a processor in X86 |
| 07:26.19 | xbmodder_newlapp | I assume they use virtouzzo |
| 07:26.25 | mheath | xbmodder_newlapp, I don't have a URL; I was talking to a friend of mine who works in a colo in san diego |
| 07:26.30 | xbmodder_newlapp | or something fun like that |
| 07:26.35 | mheath | xbmodder_newlapp, no, multiprocessor machines. A common thiing for VPS. |
| 07:26.48 | mheath | I have dedicated use of 2 of the processors, and sometimes the use of a 3rd. |
| 07:26.58 | xbmodder_newlapp | bursting a whole CPU is not supported by the x86 specs IIRC |
| 07:27.23 | mheath | xbmodder_newlapp, WTF? That made no sense. |
| 07:27.56 | xbmodder_newlapp | 2 dedicated processors (burstable to 3) you can't burst a CPU on a x86 machine |
| 07:28.01 | xbmodder_newlapp | on PPC machine you can... |
| 07:28.34 | mheath | xbmodder_newlapp, are you trying to tell me that I can't run some of my processes on a second CPU? |
| 07:28.38 | QBFreak | xbmodder_newlapp: at what level? certainly with some software that handles all three CPUs you can do something along those lines |
| 07:28.40 | xbmodder_newlapp | no... |
| 07:28.57 | mheath | xbmodder_newlapp, thats what bursting means! |
| 07:29.01 | xbmodder_newlapp | I am saying completely turning off a CPU |
| 07:29.02 | mheath | 2 processors are dedicated for my use |
| 07:29.08 | xbmodder_newlapp | like unplugging it... |
| 07:29.12 | xbmodder_newlapp | or plugging it back in |
| 07:29.20 | mheath | But I get occasional use of a 3rd |
| 07:29.37 | xbmodder_newlapp | Like while catting /proc/cpuinfo it would sometimes have two, and sometimes have three? |
| 07:29.48 | mheath | If I get enough use of that 3rd that I'm also fully utilizing that 3rd processor, I'm 'bursting' my usage to 3 processors |
| 07:29.53 | QBFreak | I think its not physical access so much as use of |
| 07:29.54 | xbmodder_newlapp | oh |
| 07:30.12 | mheath | xbmodder_newlapp, WTF? We're talking about VPS's, I thought? |
| 07:30.24 | mheath | What does /proc/cpuinfo matter on a VPS? |
| 07:30.30 | xbmodder_newlapp | QBFreak, how much gauranteed speed do you get per CPU. |
| 07:30.30 | mheath | You can simulate all kinds of stuff |
| 07:30.35 | QBFreak | mheath: depends on the software you're running |
| 07:30.48 | QBFreak | xbmodder_newlapp: not a clue, I'm making this all up as I go |
| 07:31.02 | xbmodder_newlapp | mheath, how much gauranteed speed do you get per CPU. |
| 07:31.09 | nick125_lappy | xbmodder_newlapp: get my PM? |
| 07:31.14 | mheath | xbmodder_newlapp, they're Intel Opterons in the plan I mentioned, I don't know the speed though (I can have my friend check) |
| 07:31.22 | nick125_lappy | intel opterons? |
| 07:31.27 | xbmodder_newlapp | .... |
| 07:31.30 | mheath | erm, sorry. |
| 07:31.40 | mheath | 3 double shifts in a row with a total of 10 hour sof sleep over 3 days.. |
| 07:31.40 | xbmodder_newlapp | that sounds like a very _real_ processor |
| 07:31.51 | mheath | Starts to take a toll on my brain. |
| 07:31.57 | mheath | AMD Opterons. |
| 07:32.00 | xbmodder_newlapp | oh |
| 07:32.42 | mheath | xbmodder_newlapp, how much would you charge me for a similar plan? |
| 07:33.51 | xbmodder_newlapp | Well for 2 CPUs (probably get more gauranteed speed though) , 1 GB, no hardware management (because there is none), 60 Gigs of HDD space: 69.99 |
| 07:34.03 | xbmodder_newlapp | bandwidth? |
| 07:34.09 | xbmodder_newlapp | do they offer IPv6? |
| 07:35.55 | mheath | xbmodder_newlapp: 500GB of bandwidth, $2/mo more per GB. |
| 07:36.02 | mheath | No IPv6 |
| 07:36.15 | xbmodder_newlapp | 2 dollars a gigabit... |
| 07:36.32 | tene | gigabit or gigabyte, mheath? |
| 07:36.36 | nick125_lappy | wtf... |
| 07:36.38 | nick125_lappy | 64 bytes from lo0.er1.dfw1.speakeasy.net (69.17.80.22): icmp_seq=1 ttl=126 time=619 ms |
| 07:36.45 | xbmodder_newlapp | lolers! |
| 07:37.05 | nick125_lappy | I don't think anything is downloading over my network either |
| 07:37.13 | xbmodder_newlapp | call |
| 07:37.22 | mheath | tene, byte. Consumable bandwidth, not bandwidth per second. |
| 07:37.37 | mheath | xbmodder_newlapp, how much? Give me a ballpark. |
| 07:37.38 | xbmodder_newlapp | mheath, how much burst? |
| 07:37.54 | xbmodder_newlapp | 69.99 with bandwidth |
| 07:38.08 | mheath | LMAO. |
| 07:38.16 | xbmodder_newlapp | what? |
| 07:38.50 | mheath | xbmodder_newlapp, just so you know, I made up that price. You just offered to provide for me, for $69.99, what a major hosting provider sells for around $400 a month. |
| 07:39.03 | xbmodder_newlapp | mheath, we could do it |
| 07:39.14 | xbmodder_newlapp | I couldn't do full software and hardware management, 99.9% guaranteed uptime |
| 07:39.18 | xbmodder_newlapp | and daily backups |
| 07:39.29 | xbmodder_newlapp | but everything else... |
| 07:39.48 | xbmodder_newlapp | $100 start-up fee... |
| 07:39.57 | mheath | xbmodder: you could give me dedicated use of 2 AMD Opterons, and 1GB of RAM (burstable to 3 GB) for a $100 start-up fee? |
| 07:40.12 | xbmodder_newlapp | not 100% dedicated use |
| 07:40.18 | xbmodder_newlapp | of the opterons |
| 07:42.00 | QBFreak | xbmodder_newlapp: out of curiousity, what else would be using it? or is it entirely differetn setup from dedicated hardware? |
| 07:42.15 | xbmodder_newlapp | other humans... |
| 07:42.21 | xbmodder_newlapp | *other processes |
| 07:42.56 | xbmodder_newlapp | everyone gets at least 100 Mhz of power per CPU |
| 07:43.04 | xbmodder_newlapp | maximum of 2800 Mhz |
| 07:43.17 | xbmodder_newlapp | intel xeons |
| 07:43.19 | QBFreak | just general stuff to run the VPS or other customers? |
| 07:43.30 | xbmodder_newlapp | other customers |
| 07:43.39 | QBFreak | ok |
| 07:44.21 | xbmodder_newlapp | in a few months, if all goes well, we will be offering windows vista VPSes |
| 07:44.21 | xbmodder_newlapp | :-D |
| 07:44.40 | xbmodder_newlapp | $300 setup fee |
| 07:44.59 | xbmodder_newlapp | 19 second money back gaurantee |
| 07:45.05 | nick125_lappy | how about a $1,200 setup fee? |
| 07:45.11 | xbmodder_newlapp | $100 a month |
| 07:45.33 | mheath | xbmodder_newlapp, lets go. |
| 07:45.43 | xbmodder_newlapp | mheath, go? |
| 07:45.43 | nick125_lappy | where are you going? |
| 07:47.43 | mheath | I'll give you $100 setup fee. Set me up my VPS with 1GB of RAM dedicated (burstable to 3), 2800 Mhz of processing speed, 40GB HDD space, and 500GB/month of bandwidth. |
| 07:47.54 | mheath | How long will it take you, xbmodder and nick125? |
| 07:47.59 | xbmodder_newlapp | what the heck |
| 07:48.08 | xbmodder_newlapp | 1GB of RAM dedicated (burstable to 3) |
| 07:48.11 | xbmodder_newlapp | I never said taht |
| 07:48.13 | xbmodder_newlapp | that |
| 07:48.31 | mheath | xbmodder_newlapp, thats one of the competitors features I listed, that you replied with you can do it for $100 setup and 69.99 a month. |
| 07:48.36 | nick125_lappy | xen isn't retarded like virtuozzo |
| 07:50.15 | bertbob | xbmodder: there's a little program called videogen that writes mode lines for your xorg or X config file that might let you push the limits of your monitor and vid card beyond 60Hz refresh rate |
| 07:50.35 | xbmodder_newlapp | bertbob, it was windows |
| 07:50.39 | bertbob | oh |
| 07:50.43 | bertbob | nevermind |
| 07:50.45 | bertbob | ;) |
| 07:50.55 | mheath | nick125/xbmodder: Why are you two so conncered about liability that you formed a corporation? |
| 07:50.58 | mheath | O.o |
| 07:51.54 | QBFreak | mheath: why not? people these days are sue-happy |
| 07:52.31 | QBFreak | I have two friends who formed a corp just because they felt it best fit their needs |
| 07:53.22 | mheath | nick125_lappy/xbmodder_newlapp: Well, let me put it this way: what made you too decide to incorporate? |
| 07:53.46 | mheath | And it is 50/50 stock ownership? |
| 07:54.06 | mheath | Just curious about your business - I'm seriously considering going with you for hosting. |
| 07:54.53 | nick125_lappy | limited liability is one of the big reasons why.. |
| 07:56.13 | nick125_lappy | 50/50, yes.. |
| 07:57.27 | mheath | nick125_lappy, what kind of structure do your articles of incorporation setup? |
| 07:58.45 | nick125_lappy | xbmodder_newlapp would know off hand.... |
| 07:59.38 | mheath | nick125_lappy, ? |
| 07:59.55 | mheath | 50/50 ownership of a corporation, and your not familiar with your articles of incorporation? |
| 08:02.32 | mheath | xbmodder_newlapp, I'm still waiting for that quote. |
| 08:02.48 | nick125_lappy | mheath: what was your quote for again? |
| 08:03.19 | mheath | <xbmodder_newlapp> Let me give you an official quote for this: |
| 08:03.19 | mheath | <xbmodder_newlapp> unlimited IPs |
| 08:03.19 | mheath | <xbmodder_newlapp> 1 GB Ram |
| 08:03.19 | mheath | <xbmodder_newlapp> 2 CPUs |
| 08:03.19 | mheath | <xbmodder_newlapp> 500 GB transfer |
| 08:03.20 | mheath | <xbmodder_newlapp> 40 GB hard drive space |
| 08:03.22 | mheath | <xbmodder_newlapp> 0 Vlans |
| 08:03.24 | mheath | <mheath> yes? |
| 08:03.34 | xbmodder_newlapp | back |
| 08:03.44 | nick125_lappy | mheath: I can get it..one moment... |
| 08:04.10 | nick125_lappy | the RAM is gonna be most expensive.. |
| 08:04.30 | mheath | xbmodder_newlapp, you can also answer the question about the articles of incorporation. What kind of structure and approval process is set up? |
| 08:08.29 | mheath | xbmodder_newlapp, ? |
| 08:22.27 | *** join/#utah mheath[laptop] (i=mheath@c-67-182-231-23.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 08:23.07 | QBFreak | arg! mplayer stole focus while I was typing and now I can't get sound back |
| 08:23.24 | QBFreak | I have no clue what I did either |
| 08:24.13 | QBFreak | better yet, I seem to have killed sound for the whole system |
| 08:24.15 | nick125_lappy | what did you type? |
| 08:24.56 | tene | did you unplug the kbd, speakers, and mouse? |
| 08:25.24 | QBFreak | nick125_lappy: I don't remember |
| 08:25.43 | QBFreak | tene: I didn't touch any plugs, I was typing in IRC and mplayer stole focus |
| 08:25.55 | tene | 'kay |
| 08:28.06 | QBFreak | any ideas waht to check? glancing through alsamixer everything looks ok |
| 08:29.17 | QBFreak | bed time ,goodnight all |
| 08:32.48 | xbmodder_newlapp | night |
| 08:42.24 | *** part/#utah bertbob (n=bertbob@c-67-166-126-128.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 09:20.02 | *** join/#utah bertbob (n=bertbob@c-67-166-126-128.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 09:20.35 | bertbob | Linux dusty 2.6.17 #1 Sun Jun 18 02:50:31 MDT 2006 i686 GNU/Linux |
| 09:21.34 | nick125_lappy | blah thats bettter then me |
| 09:21.37 | nick125_lappy | Linux lappy 2.6.17-rc6 #2 SMP PREEMPT Wed Jun 14 22:38:11 MDT 2006 i686 Genuine Intel(R) CPU T2300 @ 1.66GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux |
| 09:23.07 | bertbob | it's a silly but old habit I have to be as updated as I know about |
| 09:23.08 | bertbob | LOL |
| 09:23.45 | nick125_lappy | wewt.. |
| 09:23.51 | bertbob | ever since 1.1.18 or so |
| 09:23.52 | bertbob | LOL |
| 09:24.17 | nick125_lappy | yay finally got that mysql zipcode db to work with sqlite |
| 09:26.04 | nick125_lappy | yay for python 2.4 decorators :D |
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| 14:04.51 | nick125_lappy | I wish javascript had elementtree... |
| 14:23.08 | nick125_lappy | http://atarack.com/~ndevito/zip/zip.html < there we go, thats my little zip code thing.. |
| 14:23.11 | brac | [ZIP code lookup] |
| 14:24.14 | nick125_lappy | just type the number in, once you hit 5 characters, it will automagically make a query |
| 14:29.14 | nick125_lappy | its pretty simple |
| 14:31.20 | nick125_lappy | every time a key is pressed, a javascript function is called. it checks to see if the field is 5 characters. if so, it makes a GET query to handler.py/ZipHandler?zipcode=<zipcode>. that either returns a 500 error (if its a invalid zip), or a XML response (<response><city>here is the city</city><state>anystate</state></response>). then, if its a XML response, it parses it, and adds it together |
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| 16:31.08 | findlay | nick125_lappy: that's cool |
| 16:44.21 | mheath[laptop] | Wow. I am the worlds stupidest person -.- |
| 16:44.37 | mheath[laptop] | I stepped on my glasses two nights ago. Left them on the floor in the dark.... |
| 16:44.55 | mheath[laptop] | Luckily, my eyeglass place had some of the same frames on display. Cost me $90, but it took no time |
| 16:45.08 | mheath[laptop] | So what do I do last night? Leave my glasses on the floor. |
| 16:45.12 | mheath[laptop] | Stepped on them again |
| 16:45.33 | mheath[laptop] | Luckily, this time, the break was minor and it took me all of ten minutes of adjustment and supergluing to fix them. Can't even notice. |
| 17:29.19 | Kuyaedz | ibot: honeyshiv |
| 17:29.23 | ibot | somebody said honeyshiv was Kuyaedz ultimate weapon is Carcassonne |
| 17:30.03 | findlay | lol |
| 17:30.49 | Kuyaedz | :) |
| 17:32.15 | Kuyaedz | good thing I have that ultimate weapon because I still don't understand how to play lol |
| 17:37.01 | findlay | me neither |
| 17:41.38 | mheath[laptop] | Theres some moron at work who keeps giving me crap, and I can't figure out what I did to him |
| 17:41.47 | mheath[laptop] | I'm well liked at work, known for being a nice guy, and for having very good preformance. |
| 17:42.06 | Kuyaedz | maybe that's why he hates you |
| 17:42.23 | mheath[laptop] | But this guy, first thing he says to me when he transfers to our store: "So, Mike, how many mistakes are we going to have tonight?" |
| 17:42.49 | mheath[laptop] | He's upset because they had to recook two steaks, on a busy Saturday night. Two recooks, and he's mad |
| 17:43.01 | mheath[laptop] | Afterwards: "So Mike, how many mistakes did we have tonight?" |
| 17:43.57 | mheath[laptop] | The scary thing is, this guy is like half a foot taller than me, (and I'm tall), huge...shaved head, tatoos...like your stereotypical biker. |
| 17:58.43 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch@63-225-233-109.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 18:35.53 | Kuyaedz | My goodness how long can FC5 package updater take?! It's been ~1.5hrs so far & its 50% |
| 19:03.05 | Kuyaedz | well I'm pushing 2hrs+ and we're still going.. taking longer than the download & the install |
| 19:47.54 | goozbach | boogboo! |
| 19:48.06 | goozbach | blargfooblarg |
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| 20:30.11 | *** join/#utah rosciv1 (n=ross@c-24-18-48-12.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 20:34.25 | Kuyaedz | any RH/FC guys tell me how to re-detect video for higher resolution? I just swapped out the video card & I'm stuck at 800x600 |
| 20:34.35 | rosciv1 | system-config-display |
| 20:34.47 | rosciv1 | if that's not working, system-config-display --reconfig |
| 20:37.28 | roscivs | Totally off-topic question: what's the best way to organize one's personal library? |
| 20:37.31 | roscivs | I have a lot of books. |
| 20:37.35 | roscivs | But I don't know how to organize them. |
| 20:38.45 | Kuyaedz | Mine are in no order at all.. couldn't tell ya. |
| 20:39.00 | roscivs | So are mine. But I want to remedy that situation :) |
| 20:39.06 | roscivs | Did system-config-display work? |
| 20:40.00 | Kuyaedz | rebootin' really quick.. ooh, also how can I have gdm start at boot? I don't want to 'startxfce4' manually. |
| 20:40.12 | roscivs | edit /etc/inittab |
| 20:40.27 | roscivs | there's a line that says initdefault |
| 20:40.30 | roscivs | change that to five |
| 20:40.43 | roscivs | id:3:initdefault: |
| 20:40.53 | roscivs | becomes |
| 20:40.53 | roscivs | id:5:initdefault: |
| 20:41.10 | Kuyaedz | system-config-display: command not found |
| 20:41.18 | roscivs | do you have yum installed? |
| 20:41.36 | roscivs | yum install system-config-display |
| 20:41.37 | Kuyaedz | looks like it |
| 20:43.03 | Kuyaedz | I used RH9 for quite a while but that was years ago.. I'm a little rusty on my RH/FC use :) |
| 20:43.18 | roscivs | yeah, it's changed a bit since then |
| 20:46.07 | *** join/#utah Kuyaedz (n=Kuyaedz@kuyaedz.fttp.xmission.com) |
| 20:46.30 | Kuyaedz | oops.. mean to restartX on the other machine & did the wrong one. That's what I get for using synergy |
| 20:46.36 | roscivs | heh |
| 20:47.53 | *** join/#utah Kuyaedz (n=Kuyaedz@kuyaedz.fttp.xmission.com) |
| 20:48.30 | Kuyaedz | sweet. Looks like we're at 1024x768 now |
| 20:48.42 | Kuyaedz | don't know if I want to try 1600x1200.. don't think the card'll handle it |
| 20:49.49 | Kuyaedz | now what did I need to change in /etc/inittab again? |
| 20:52.48 | Kuyaedz | n/m, got it |
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| 21:00.40 | Kuyaedz | what is the FC equivalent to the Debian /etc/networking/interfaces ? |
| 21:01.38 | roscivs | not sure, what are you trying to do? |
| 21:01.49 | roscivs | (sorry, i'm not a debian guru) |
| 21:02.02 | Kuyaedz | set networking to static. I let it install as DHCP for ease |
| 21:02.23 | roscivs | you can use system-config-networking if you like guis |
| 21:02.47 | roscivs | if you don't like guis, |
| 21:02.55 | roscivs | /etc/sysconfig/networking/devices i think is what you're looking for |
| 21:03.09 | roscivs | system-config-network, sorry |
| 21:03.20 | roscivs | (the name of the gui, that is) |
| 21:04.15 | Kuyaedz | that looks familiar from my RH9 days :) |
| 21:04.31 | roscivs | heh, yup |
| 21:06.34 | Kuyaedz | per herlo's suggestion I decided to try FC5. I used RH9 for almost a year long ago, tried FC4 briefly.. |
| 21:14.13 | roscivs | i started using linux back in the rh6-ish days, and basically rh was the only one I could get to work |
| 21:14.29 | roscivs | i used mandrake for a spell when it was nearly indistinguishable from redhat |
| 21:14.50 | roscivs | and i've recently tried debian and ubuntu |
| 21:15.13 | roscivs | but my desktop machine has been rh6,7,8,9, fc1,2,3,4,5. |
| 21:15.19 | Kuyaedz | I'm an Ubuntu man.. or "Ubuntu Whore" as lars called me. |
| 21:16.26 | roscivs | i tried ubuntu and found it nearly indistinguishable from fedora in terms of features |
| 21:16.45 | roscivs | of course if you come from a debian background, you already know where everything is going to be in ubuntu and how to configure stuff, |
| 21:16.52 | roscivs | but the same is true for redhat and fedora |
| 21:16.53 | herlo_home | Kuyaedz: lars-ut is a bastard |
| 21:17.01 | herlo_home | sometimes, but we still love him anyway |
| 21:17.08 | roscivs | whichever you're more familiar with is going to be easier, |
| 21:17.30 | roscivs | but in my opinion they're both pretty much equal in terms of features/stability/release schedules |
| 21:18.59 | Kuyaedz | What drew me to Ubuntu was its single-disk installation & its very active user/support base. |
| 21:19.22 | roscivs | yes, i was ticked off that you can't install fc5 with a single cd |
| 21:19.37 | roscivs | every release before that was installable from a single cd |
| 21:20.30 | herlo_home | roscivs, you can with one DVD and you can run it from any sort of media, like nfs, ftp, or http too... so you wouldn't even need to build it. |
| 21:20.33 | Kuyaedz | makes sense to me to use a single CD install with *optional* extra CDs for additional packages & rely on apt/yum. |
| 21:21.06 | herlo_home | not sure where fc is going there.... |
| 21:21.37 | roscivs | herlo_home: I always do a minimal install and then apt/yum everything I need |
| 21:21.45 | roscivs | no reason a minimal install should need more than a single CD |
| 21:21.45 | Kuyaedz | normally I just use the single CD for Ubuntu install & then add the few extras I want via APT. No need to download/burn a second CD for that.. |
| 21:22.16 | herlo_home | roscivs: never done that for fc5, is there a good tutorial anywhere? |
| 21:22.28 | herlo_home | I just spool the media from the network and install it all |
| 21:22.36 | Kuyaedz | wonder what I should try to setup on this machine to get used to FC.. |
| 21:22.39 | roscivs | herlo_home: What do you mean? |
| 21:22.42 | Kuyaedz | I'm assuming LAMP is simple enough using yum |
| 21:22.57 | herlo_home | roscivs: about the network install? |
| 21:23.21 | roscivs | "herlo_home: roscivs: never done that for fc5, is there a good tutorial anywhere?" ... what does "that" mean? a minimal install? |
| 21:23.34 | herlo_home | yeah, a minimal |
| 21:23.47 | herlo_home | Kuyaedz, never actually did it with yum, I downloaded it directly from the lamp site |
| 21:24.16 | roscivs | I guess it seems to me like a tutorial would be beside the point, |
| 21:24.26 | herlo_home | I am sure its not that hard to look up a minimal install, or are you just implying that you take the basics? |
| 21:24.26 | roscivs | the reason why I do it that way is because I know exactly what packages I want. |
| 21:25.10 | roscivs | I can't remember how FC5 words it, but all the previous FC installs has a "minimal install" checkbox when selecting packages. |
| 21:25.14 | roscivs | (In the installer.) |
| 21:25.25 | herlo_home | or is it a kickstart or how do you exactly do that, not sure what a minimal install option is on fc5, I only recall that you can choose customize or standard installs from the installer.... |
| 21:25.58 | roscivs | I think with fc5 they worded it differently, I think I had to just customize and then deselect all packages |
| 21:26.07 | herlo_home | I'll have to look at it again... |
| 21:26.11 | roscivs | I can't remember exactly ... I know I was ticked that they changed it :) |
| 21:26.13 | herlo_home | okay, that makes sense |
| 21:26.35 | herlo_home | I haven't ever used FC4, but my roomy has |
| 21:26.46 | roscivs | which is basically what the "minimal install" option in all the previous FC installs did, it just did a customized install with all the packages deselected |
| 21:28.08 | Kuyaedz | I'm assuming the 'minimal install' would be equivalent to the 'server' install on Ubuntu? Just bare minimum packages, no GUI, etc? |
| 21:30.31 | herlo_home | on FC3, I don't recall the minimal install button either, but it could've been there. I've installed it a million and one times, but usually with gui and everything I needed to configure things like mail, dns, proxy, web, etc |
| 21:32.22 | roscivs | Hello. |
| 21:32.24 | roscivs | (Just a test to see if thar intarweb is back.) |
| 21:32.41 | roscivs | Kuyaedz: Yup, that's right |
| 21:32.54 | roscivs | herlo_home: I'm pretty darn positive there's a minimal install button in fc3 |
| 21:33.08 | roscivs | i've installed fc3 a bazillion times and always use that checkbox |
| 21:33.25 | roscivs | it shows up on the "customize individual packages" screen whatever it's called |
| 21:35.14 | Kuyaedz | now are there additional repos I should install besides the default core, extras & updates? |
| 21:35.54 | roscivs | let's see what i'm using these days |
| 21:36.32 | roscivs | freshrpms and livna |
| 21:36.49 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@h-68-167-228-55.dnvtco56.dynamic.covad.net) |
| 21:37.20 | Kuyaedz | ..and where would I add repos? |
| 21:37.35 | roscivs | http://ftp.freshrpms.net/pub/freshrpms/fedora/linux/5/freshrpms-release/freshrpms-release-1.1-1.fc.noarch.rpm |
| 21:37.45 | roscivs | download that rpm for the freshrpms repo |
| 21:38.20 | roscivs | http://rpm.livna.org/livna-release-5.rpm for livna |
| 21:38.27 | roscivs | you can do it straight from rpm |
| 21:38.31 | roscivs | rpm -ivh http://rpm.livna.org/livna-release-5.rpm |
| 21:38.33 | roscivs | for example |
| 21:38.50 | roscivs | http://rpm.livna.org/configuration.html |
| 21:39.39 | Kuyaedz | ok.. looks like yum.conf is similar to the /etc/apt/sources.list then.. |
| 21:39.57 | roscivs | yup, although typically people won't add entries directly to yum.conf |
| 21:40.14 | roscivs | they'll put entries in /etc/yum.repos.d/ |
| 21:40.28 | roscivs | that's what the above rpms contain, just a .repo file that goes in that directory (iirc) |
| 21:40.42 | Kuyaedz | ok.. so manually entries would go in there or just install the .rpm for the repo? |
| 21:41.13 | roscivs | just install the rpm for the repository, |
| 21:41.26 | roscivs | it will stick a .repo file in /etc/yum.repos.d/ that describes the repository |
| 21:41.36 | roscivs | and, poking around, looks like it also installed the GPG key for the repository |
| 21:41.41 | roscivs | (since all RPMs are signed) |
| 21:42.44 | Kuyaedz | and I'm assuming the freshrpms & livna are pretty well supported? I'm always reluctant to install some outside repos in Ubuntu |
| 21:42.51 | Kuyaedz | ...don't want to screw things up |
| 21:43.37 | roscivs | they're pretty standard, yeah, but when installing multiple repositories from various places of course there's always that risk |
| 21:44.55 | Kuyaedz | ok I've installed those now I do 'yum check-update' and 'yum update' to grab anything newer? |
| 21:45.15 | roscivs | you mean to automatically upgrade all your packages? |
| 21:45.29 | Kuyaedz | check for & upgrade, yeah |
| 21:46.12 | roscivs | i think just "yum update" does that |
| 21:47.28 | Kuyaedz | ok. No packages marked for Update/Obsoletion. I guess I'm current |
| 21:48.17 | roscivs | really? that's odd. |
| 21:48.30 | Kuyaedz | I added those two repos & then did 'yum update'.. that's what it tells me |
| 21:49.46 | roscivs | huh, i'd expect quite a few packages to be listed. or did you already do a "yum update" before adding those repos? |
| 21:50.14 | Kuyaedz | well I just installed this morning & ran update manager afterwards (prior to the freshrpm/livna addition) |
| 21:50.23 | roscivs | ah, okay, that makes sense then |
| 21:51.44 | Kuyaedz | ..and how do I tell if I'm running the 386 or 686 kernel? uname -r just shows "2.6.16-1.2133_FC5" |
| 21:52.33 | roscivs | good question; I haven't found a good way of figuring out what architecture an installed package is |
| 21:53.07 | Kuyaedz | Hmm.. in Ubuntu I just use uname -r and it add the -386 or -686 to the kernel info returned.. |
| 21:53.46 | Kuyaedz | 2.6.15-25-k7 (example) |
| 21:54.14 | elg | Kuyaedz: try looking in /proc/config.gz |
| 21:54.21 | elg | assuming it's there |
| 21:54.55 | Kuyaedz | no .gz files in /proc/ |
| 21:55.07 | elg | check for a config file in /boot |
| 21:56.00 | Kuyaedz | ...nope. Just .img files mainly |
| 21:56.12 | roscivs | I know that yum knows what architecture it is, because if you do something silly like "yum search kernel | grep installed" it will tell you the architecture of the installed packages |
| 21:56.25 | roscivs | but I don't know how to get the information out of yum |
| 22:02.46 | Kuyaedz | using package manager & searching for "kernel" I see, installed, "kernel-2.6.16-1.2133_FC5.i686". |
| 22:03.03 | roscivs | cool |
| 22:03.10 | roscivs | there must be some easy way to get that info |
| 22:03.13 | roscivs | but how, I don't know :) |
| 22:03.47 | Kuyaedz | seems like it should be listed in uname but.. |
| 22:04.51 | herlo_home | it is uname |
| 22:05.53 | Kuyaedz | uname reports i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux.. which is it? :) |
| 22:06.23 | herlo_home | it should report the appropriate architecture for your box, does it not? |
| 22:07.16 | Kuyaedz | uname -a reports: Linux guineapig 2.6.16-1.2133_FC5 #1 Tue Jun 6 00:52:14 EDT 2006 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux |
| 22:07.55 | roscivs | On my machine: Linux terminus 2.6.16-1.2080_FC5 #1 Tue Mar 28 03:38:34 EST 2006 i686 athlon i386 GNU/Linux |
| 22:08.01 | herlo_home | what does uname -r report? |
| 22:08.20 | Kuyaedz | 2.6.16-1.2133_FC5 |
| 22:08.21 | herlo_home | should jsut be 2.6.16-1.2133_FC5 |
| 22:08.36 | herlo_home | yeah, that's the same exact kernel, except mine says 2.6.16-1.2133_FC5smp |
| 22:08.59 | Kuyaedz | its this "i686 athlon i386" that confuses me |
| 22:09.07 | Kuyaedz | lists i686 & i386 |
| 22:09.27 | herlo_home | where? |
| 22:09.47 | herlo_home | in uname -a? |
| 22:09.50 | Kuyaedz | yeah |
| 22:09.56 | herlo_home | or uname -r |
| 22:09.58 | Kuyaedz | -a |
| 22:10.38 | herlo_home | yeah, so its just reporting the architecture to you. I would say it should probably say i386, but ah well, details, details |
| 22:11.13 | herlo_home | im off |
| 22:27.19 | nick125_lappy | http://atarack.com/~ndevito/zip/zip.html < finally perfected my ajax..wewt :D |
| 22:27.21 | brac | [ZIP code lookup] |
| 22:29.17 | Kuyaedz | one more for the FC boys.. I want to install gaim2.0beta3. The page has fc2, fc3, fc4.rpms. Is the fc4 compatible enough with 5 to use or...? |
| 22:30.42 | roscivs | i've had good results with fc4 packages, but in any case "yum install gaim" should get you a fc5 package |
| 22:31.05 | roscivs | oh, i guess not a 2.0 beta package though |
| 22:33.28 | Kuyaedz | wait, now I see a fc5.rpm package.. |
| 22:33.47 | Kuyaedz | so I can just rpm -ivh URL & it'll pull in that package? |
| 22:33.56 | roscivs | yup |
| 22:34.57 | Kuyaedz | or I guess if I use the link it opens in the software installer doesn't it |
| 22:35.08 | roscivs | i believe so |
| 22:36.04 | Kuyaedz | so in the future, for my reference, are packages generally made per version or one .rpm is going to work as well as another? |
| 22:36.27 | roscivs | you mean per fedora version? |
| 22:36.32 | Kuyaedz | yeah |
| 22:36.40 | roscivs | it just depends on dependencies |
| 22:36.56 | roscivs | if gaim depends on some version of package Foobar, for example, |
| 22:37.05 | roscivs | and fc3 has Foobar-1.0 and fc5 has Foobar-2.0 |
| 22:37.19 | roscivs | then a fc3 package of gaim is going to want Foobar-1.0 to be installed |
| 22:37.27 | roscivs | so you'll have to find a fc3 package of Foobar-1.0 |
| 22:37.32 | roscivs | which may depend on another fc3 package, |
| 22:37.38 | Kuyaedz | ok |
| 22:37.42 | roscivs | which may depend on another fc3 package, etc. etc. |
| 22:37.51 | Kuyaedz | and that is what we call dependency hell :) |
| 22:37.55 | roscivs | exactly :) |
| 22:38.07 | ScytheBlade1 | I recommend using yum |
| 22:38.20 | Kuyaedz | ..another reason I like to stick to the main repos |
| 22:38.29 | roscivs | exactly. |
| 22:38.43 | roscivs | if you don't go downloading random rpms from various sites you won't have that problem :) |
| 22:39.11 | Kuyaedz | Yeah.. for some reason I'm a sucker for the latest gaim though |
| 22:39.12 | Kuyaedz | brb |
| 22:40.48 | ScytheBlade1 | Kuyaedz, build from source |
| 22:42.34 | Kuyaedz | looks like that fc5.rpm worked |
| 22:59.38 | roscivs | anybody here familiar with xerces? |
| 23:04.06 | tene | Kuyaedz: building a source rpm is also often a good solution |
| 23:04.54 | Kuyaedz | tene: that might be a lesson for another day.. first day with FC5 :) |
| 23:05.08 | tene | 'kay |
| 23:06.21 | Kuyaedz | just tried installing ati drivers and screwed up X |
| 23:06.41 | tene | YAY! |
| 23:07.38 | Kuyaedz | this is why we keep regular backups of xorg.conf boys & girls |
| 23:07.53 | roscivs | heh |
| 23:08.05 | roscivs | that's what system-config-display --reconfig is good for :) |
| 23:08.33 | Kuyaedz | is --reconfig the non-GUI method? |
| 23:08.47 | roscivs | no, it just will automatically redetect your settings |
| 23:08.55 | roscivs | basically starts over from ground zero |
| 23:09.19 | Kuyaedz | ahh |
| 23:09.34 | Kuyaedz | ..and we're fixed |
| 23:09.56 | Kuyaedz | I'm making another backup of this xorg. xorg.conf.use.this.one ;) |
| 23:10.00 | roscivs | hehe |
| 23:11.31 | Kuyaedz | does FC use sudo or do I need to su root? |
| 23:11.51 | roscivs | whichever you're most comfortable with. you won't be in the sudoers file by default though. |
| 23:12.37 | Kuyaedz | I'm used to using sudo. How do I add myself in FC? |
| 23:12.51 | roscivs | as root, edit /etc/sudoers |
| 23:13.05 | roscivs | you'll see a line near the bottom that looks like this: |
| 23:13.05 | roscivs | root ALL=(ALL) ALL |
| 23:13.16 | roscivs | duplicate that line with your own username |
| 23:13.26 | roscivs | e.g. |
| 23:13.26 | roscivs | ross ALL=(ALL) ALL |
| 23:13.55 | roscivs | that's it. |
| 23:14.31 | Kuyaedz | thanks.. in Ubuntu there is a 'visudo' command that edits the sudoers file. That's what I was looking for |
| 23:14.53 | roscivs | ah, gotcha. |
| 23:19.40 | Kuyaedz | Well I think I've got the desktop setup.. not too difficult |
| 23:49.23 | Kuyaedz | so what is the difference in a noarch.rpm & source.rpm? |
| 23:49.37 | roscivs | noarch is usually stuff that doesn't need to be built |
| 23:49.48 | roscivs | or rather, that doesn't depend on a platform |
| 23:49.55 | roscivs | like text files, python scripts |
| 23:50.01 | roscivs | etc. |
| 23:50.44 | Kuyaedz | so should I use one over the other? |
| 23:51.04 | roscivs | can you give me an example of a package where you're seeing both? |
| 23:51.27 | Kuyaedz | http://www.webmin.com/download.html |
| 23:51.31 | brac | [Downloading and Installing] |
| 23:51.54 | roscivs | noarch is what you want |
| 23:52.09 | Kuyaedz | ok.. and why? |
| 23:52.19 | roscivs | i'm not sure how the source rpm is different, but it's definitely not what you want |
| 23:52.27 | roscivs | a source rpm isn't really directly installable, |
| 23:52.28 | Kuyaedz | ok.. |
| 23:52.33 | roscivs | it's an rpm that you use to build a real rpm |
| 23:53.02 | roscivs | so that .src.rpm is probably what they used to build the .noarch.rpm |
| 23:53.13 | roscivs | why they included it with the available downloads I have no idea |
| 23:53.37 | roscivs | it doesn't seem very useful, unless I suppose if you don't like wherever the noarch rpm puts stuff |
| 23:54.47 | Kuyaedz | but if you wanted to put things in custom places wouldn't you just compile the source tar? |
| 23:55.44 | roscivs | a .src.rpm is like the redhat version of a source tar |
| 23:56.02 | roscivs | if you use a source tar then it doesn't play well with your package management |
| 23:57.19 | Kuyaedz | ok |