| 00:01.07 | macnewbold | anything affordable in our neighborhood? |
| 00:01.07 | levi2 | Man, for the price of a small McMansion in an inflated real estate market in the US, you can get an elegant French castle. |
| 00:01.07 | levi2 | http://www.france-prestige-real-estate.com/an/castle-9.htm |
| 00:01.08 | levi2 | That's less than $4 million. |
| 00:06.06 | macnewbold | yeah, but what about the neighbors? |
| 00:08.47 | levi2 | This is what you can get for that price in San Francisco: http://www.californiamoves.com/property/propertydetails.aspx?propertyguid=d6ac9460-2c53-45ed-85c5-69161eb5e134&rpp=10&sort1=listprice&mls=&thumbs=1&PType=SFAM&page=1&MinBed=0&CommunityIDList=&MaxPrice=4500000&CityIDList=&sortord=D&sort2=city&Zip=&Street=&sqft=0&PropSearch=0&CountyIDList=226&MinPrice=3500000&MinBath=0 |
| 00:14.15 | findlay | wow that is one big $4m URL |
| 00:17.15 | ScytheBlade1 | Geez, don't get me started. |
| 00:17.22 | ScytheBlade1 | I've typed two pages of pro-Vista stuff |
| 00:17.30 | ScytheBlade1 | Well, anti-ComputerWorld article, not really pro-Vista |
| 00:17.51 | *** join/#utah herlo (n=upirc@h4607d297.area7.spcsdns.net) |
| 00:20.35 | *** join/#utah spr (n=spr@c-67-169-251-207.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 00:20.36 | herlo | I just wanna go to my hotel... |
| 00:20.37 | ScytheBlade1 | Haha, check that out |
| 00:20.41 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm already on OpenClue |
| 00:20.51 | herlo | cool man |
| 00:21.13 | herlo | Gabe is very fast |
| 00:21.22 | herlo | when he wants to be |
| 00:21.30 | ScytheBlade1 | Indeed |
| 00:21.37 | ScytheBlade1 | You can all see my "First Post" first post ;) |
| 00:21.45 | Kuyaedz | man this defrag has been going for 8hrs |
| 00:21.59 | findlay | haha |
| 00:22.44 | herlo | lady in my class is still working final lab 4 the day |
| 00:23.15 | herlo | and now she's chatting on the phone while finishing it |
| 00:23.36 | herlo | if she weren't such a nice lady... |
| 00:23.59 | herlo | azt |
| 00:24.45 | findlay | ~lart stupid music |
| 00:24.47 | *** join/#utah darger (n=dar@c-67-172-237-203.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 00:25.04 | herlo | going on 5:30 Arizona time |
| 00:25.06 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@65.73.113.162) |
| 00:25.39 | herlo | ~pimpslap |
| 00:27.18 | mheath[laptop] | BBIAB |
| 00:28.40 | *** part/#utah darger (n=dar@c-67-172-237-203.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 00:31.44 | herlo | ~pimpslap the world |
| 00:32.00 | ibot | herlo pimpslaps the world. ouch! |
| 00:33.56 | findlay | I'm hungry |
| 00:40.39 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@69.146.125.66) |
| 00:55.47 | findlay | I bet the management at my apartment complex is the worst in the whole city of Provo |
| 00:56.21 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (n=von@208.187.198.66) |
| 00:56.48 | vontrapp | how do you add mimetypes to the webrick that is run with ./script/server? |
| 00:58.51 | scottj | I am going crazy trying to use a certain color in a mac app. The stupid mac color picker has about five ways to select a color with the mouse, but no way to enter in the rgb or hex for a color. |
| 00:59.12 | vontrapp | gimp |
| 00:59.42 | vontrapp | scottj: you want to see colors? |
| 01:00.30 | vontrapp | http://hans.fugal.net/vim/rgbtxt.html |
| 01:00.33 | scottj | nope, I just want to enter in the hex/rgb codes for a color I want to use |
| 01:00.41 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@69.146.125.66) |
| 01:00.50 | vontrapp | ah, i see |
| 01:09.05 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (n=linuxali@tor/session/external/x-89bcc9ba5921534a) |
| 01:09.31 | *** join/#utah herlo (n=herlo@w163.z065106116.phx-az.dsl.cnc.net) |
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| 01:35.43 | *** join/#utah Kuyaedz (n=Kuyaedz@kuyaedz.fttp.xmission.com) |
| 01:59.35 | *** join/#utah bonez41 (n=aint@c-67-166-77-14.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 02:00.11 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (n=von@208.187.198.66) |
| 02:02.23 | bonez41 | I have a winders question...my wife...who has at least 6000 email messages in her Outlook Express inbox (she's addicted to OE email)... recently saw the message. Out of space (despite fact the drive has 26 GB of free space).. Compact Mail folders???? I told her to have it compact....it did..and took out the past 6 months of emails in her inbox..... |
| 02:02.42 | bonez41 | anyone know why this happens, other than that OE is an M$ product and thus buggy? |
| 02:02.59 | bonez41 | or is it due to the huge amount of messages....sitting her inbox? |
| 02:04.19 | bonez41 | anyone? |
| 02:04.56 | Kuyaedz | not sure.. don't use OE. Tried Google? |
| 02:06.10 | bonez41 | Kuyaedz, I know..I don't use OE..but wife does....... any idea why the compact routine would have hosed it? |
| 02:06.42 | Kuyaedz | I actually just did a transfer for a user between one machine to another. When we did an 'archive' I noticed it did that. |
| 02:06.44 | bonez41 | I think I'll help her convert over to Mozilla-thunderbird... |
| 02:06.53 | Kuyaedz | Luckily I had just done a backup of the .pst |
| 02:07.07 | bonez41 | Kuyaedz, so, when you transferred the files over...it lost a lot of the messages? |
| 02:07.28 | Kuyaedz | No, I had done a backup of the .pst first so when I imported on the destination it was like new |
| 02:07.43 | Kuyaedz | After my backup I tried the archive function which started removing messages left & right |
| 02:08.25 | bonez41 | all the messages though are stored in .pst file, right? |
| 02:08.45 | bonez41 | I'll go and see if there's a backup of the .pst |
| 02:08.57 | Kuyaedz | should be.. I wonder though, after the compact removal |
| 02:09.05 | Kuyaedz | I'm assuming they're still there somewhere |
| 02:10.00 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (n=von@208.187.198.66) |
| 02:10.26 | vontrapp | agh, for some reason i can't mount this usb drive |
| 02:10.44 | vontrapp | it insists "wrong fs type, bad option, bad ...blah blah" |
| 02:10.58 | vontrapp | and it can't determine it with auto |
| 02:11.07 | vontrapp | but it worked before |
| 02:11.08 | *** join/#utah vontrapp_ (n=von@208.187.198.66) |
| 02:11.19 | vontrapp | -lart vontrapp_ |
| 02:12.15 | vontrapp | great, now irssi has two connections, how do i get rid of one? |
| 02:16.37 | *** join/#utah griffeymac (n=griffeym@12-240-9-171.client.mchsi.com) |
| 02:18.01 | findlay | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:20.17 | maquis | vontrapp: you could also ghost the old one to kill it |
| 02:21.03 | *** join/#utah mheath (n=mheath@c-67-182-231-23.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 02:22.40 | mheath | Another problem with Internet Explorer 7: It's made rather specifically for Windows Vista. The look and feel don't fit that well with XP (OK, but not that well |
| 02:24.36 | *** join/#utah levi (n=levi@levi.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 02:24.39 | findlay | ~kill |
| 02:24.50 | maquis | ~kill findlay |
| 02:24.51 | ibot | ACTION shoots a graviton gun at findlay |
| 02:25.26 | ScytheBlade1 | ARGH. |
| 02:25.27 | ScytheBlade1 | ~lart mheath |
| 02:25.33 | ScytheBlade1 | ibot, good |
| 02:25.39 | maquis | ~roulette |
| 02:25.40 | ibot | ACTION watches maquis pull the trigger: Click! |
| 02:25.41 | ScytheBlade1 | ibot, thank you |
| 02:25.41 | ibot | ScytheBlade1: no worries |
| 02:25.43 | levi | Stupid DSL went out. |
| 02:25.51 | ScytheBlade1 | ~roulette |
| 02:25.53 | ibot | ACTION watches scytheblade1 pull the trigger: Click! |
| 02:26.00 | findlay | ibot: haha your gravitons won't hurt me!!1! Not with my anti repellant gravitational brane world jacket! |
| 02:26.01 | ibot | ACTION beats your gravitons won't hurt me!!1! Not with my anti repellant gravitational brane world jacket! about the head with the ha ha bat |
| 02:26.20 | findlay | ibot: hahahaha |
| 02:26.21 | ibot | hahahaha is, like, ahahahah |
| 02:26.24 | *** join/#utah levi_ (n=levi@levi.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 02:26.26 | findlay | ibot: hahahahaha |
| 02:26.27 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 02:26.56 | findlay | ~bzfrag ScytheBlade1 |
| 02:26.58 | ibot | ACTION blindsides ScytheBlade1 with an invisible bullet |
| 02:27.08 | ScytheBlade1 | ~lart findlay |
| 02:27.11 | ScytheBlade1 | Simple |
| 02:27.13 | ScytheBlade1 | But it works :) |
| 02:27.17 | findlay | boring |
| 02:27.27 | findlay | ~travolta maquis |
| 02:27.28 | ibot | ACTION replaces maquis with several craters in a multi-colored display of superior fire power |
| 02:27.34 | mheath | One big plus: |
| 02:27.46 | mheath | I'm used to right clicking and selecting "Open in New Tab" from firefox. |
| 02:27.56 | mheath | Usually, when I use IE, this habit leads to annoyance |
| 02:28.04 | mheath | in this version, I can actually do that :) |
| 02:28.26 | ScytheBlade1 | mheath, just don't pull any "vista sucks hard" crap on me :) |
| 02:28.30 | findlay | bet you can't <ctrl>-*click* |
| 02:29.34 | findlay | mheath: ScytheBlade1 for some reason has been feeling some kind of vista defensiveness lately. Don't worry, I'm sure he'll come back to normal sooner or later |
| 02:29.48 | mheath | ScytheBlade1, Hope you have lots of Memory |
| 02:29.56 | mheath | my friend was running one of their recent beta's |
| 02:30.02 | mheath | it uses 500 MB of RAM at idle |
| 02:30.07 | ScytheBlade1 | findlay, it's not defending vista, it's getting one's facts straight about it |
| 02:30.22 | maquis | apparently they say you need 15 GB hard drive space... minimum... |
| 02:30.23 | findlay | I have lots of memory. *I* remember everything!@1 |
| 02:30.39 | ScytheBlade1 | They also say you need a 128MB video card. |
| 02:30.41 | maquis | none of my boxes are currently using 15 GB... |
| 02:30.43 | ScytheBlade1 | Do you? No. |
| 02:30.52 | findlay | maquis: that's probably including space for some kind of backup mechanism |
| 02:31.01 | ScytheBlade1 | And, haha, get this |
| 02:31.02 | maquis | findlay: perhaps... but still... |
| 02:31.08 | maquis | why would an OS need that much? |
| 02:31.09 | mheath | ScytheBlade1, no, it isn't what they SAY you need |
| 02:31.11 | ScytheBlade1 | Apple ships OSX with 1GB of HP printer drivers |
| 02:31.20 | mheath | It is what the system reported when he was doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. |
| 02:31.25 | mheath | Just sitting ont he desktop |
| 02:31.31 | ScytheBlade1 | mheath, I doubt that |
| 02:31.32 | mheath | 500MB of RAM being used |
| 02:31.50 | findlay | maquis: my very liberal gentoo install with gigabytes of compiler/configure/portage cache comes in at 11G |
| 02:32.01 | findlay | and that includes source code too |
| 02:32.07 | ScytheBlade1 | I ran a *much* earlier build of it. 200MB RAM usage or so |
| 02:32.10 | maquis | findlay: exactly my point |
| 02:32.15 | ScytheBlade1 | Compared to my current XP's 132MB |
| 02:32.28 | mheath | ScytheBlade1, their _much_ earlier builds were a beautified XP. |
| 02:32.28 | ScytheBlade1 | (But note that a ton of Vista's components are built as debug atm) |
| 02:32.29 | maquis | it also requires more RAM than my server has... |
| 02:32.50 | ScytheBlade1 | mheath, if you insist :) |
| 02:33.04 | ScytheBlade1 | Let's just say that I wrote a four-page post rebutting every point in that computerworld article |
| 02:33.17 | ScytheBlade1 | Then I realized just how much of a troll it was, and now it's in perpetual draft mode |
| 02:34.08 | mheath | ScytheBlade1's going to sign up for their subscriber bug fix program. Only $40, ScytheBlade1 and they'll _really_ put effort into fixing the bugs in it! |
| 02:34.13 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 02:34.16 | ScytheBlade1 | No, I'm not, thanks |
| 02:34.29 | findlay | ScytheBlade1: don't be bothered by other people's astroturfing and propaganda. Lots of people all the time are belligerently/blatantly wrong about lots of things |
| 02:34.53 | ScytheBlade1 | findlay, it's one thing for that to happen, it's another for it to be absorbed as truth by a large percentage of people |
| 02:35.04 | mheath | It's NOT. |
| 02:35.06 | findlay | and on the internet the truth will usually come out |
| 02:35.20 | mheath | People read articles on "Why vista sucks" because they think it will suck and are curious |
| 02:35.30 | griffeymac | Heh. |
| 02:35.37 | mheath | Those articles aren't changing the masses minds. |
| 02:35.40 | findlay | and then there are people like me who just want a good laugh |
| 02:36.09 | mheath | my hatred of microsoft products comes from consistently finding much better options elsewhere. |
| 02:36.36 | mheath | I see a better OS in Vista, but my previous experiences makes me skeptic, and so far all my examination has left much to be desired. |
| 02:37.00 | mheath | Thats the way people think about this. |
| 02:37.25 | ScytheBlade1 | Let's just say that Vista will likely be the first OS that I actually buy |
| 02:37.34 | ScytheBlade1 | And even then, I won't be purchasing it at a typical store |
| 02:38.27 | Kuyaedz | We'll all end up with it when we buy a new machine or notebook. Hard avoiding that |
| 02:38.30 | mheath | My laptop came with a Vista Capable sticker on it |
| 02:38.34 | levi | Hah, I love Spotlight in OS X. I'm using a pdf-based textbook for this online class, and it makes open-book tests so much easier. |
| 02:39.01 | ScytheBlade1 | Kuyaedz, true. But, again, I won't ever be using the home edition |
| 02:39.28 | Kuyaedz | Are machines going to ship with the limited home edition & force people to upgrade? |
| 02:39.33 | griffeymac | So M$ is still shipping a somewhat-useful version and an awful "home" version? |
| 02:39.34 | mheath | but the thing is, if you read the fine print about "Vista Capable" stickers, those computers are only capable of running Vista with some of the stuff limited. |
| 02:39.44 | mheath | griffeymac, they have like 6 versions, iirc |
| 02:39.52 | griffeymac | Oh goodness. |
| 02:40.20 | mheath | If I ever release software as a business, I would never feel comfortable doing something like that. |
| 02:40.33 | mheath | Giving you a version that I know is flawed, that doesn't represent the capabilities we worked to achieve. |
| 02:40.57 | levi | mheath: Limited does not always = flawed. |
| 02:41.14 | ScytheBlade1 | Kinda |
| 02:41.31 | mheath | levi: With microsofts version it does |
| 02:41.43 | levi | For example, I think Adobe was very wise to release a limited cheap version of Photoshop as Elements. |
| 02:41.55 | mheath | It's like........Walmart Store Brand vs. Name Brand |
| 02:42.12 | ScytheBlade1 | argh. |
| 02:42.14 | mheath | Walmart Store Brand KNOWS they're leavign features out the other provides, but they do it strictly for cost |
| 02:42.25 | levi | I'm sure they captured a bunch of users who would have otherwise pirated it. |
| 02:42.28 | mheath | Whereas, the Name Brand is committed to releasing a quality, wholesome product. |
| 02:42.43 | griffeymac | Maybe (sorry that I joined in) but XP Home is *awful* compared to XP Pro. |
| 02:42.44 | mheath | My point was, I'd share that same commitment to quality. |
| 02:42.48 | Kuyaedz | ScythBlade1: if you can explain the need for 6 versions... |
| 02:43.01 | mheath | I don't believe in giving you something that doesn't represent my best work, simply because of moetary issues. |
| 02:43.14 | ScytheBlade1 | Kuyaedz, I can. And then I can tell you why the home edition is good for those who will get it, and why I will personally be purchasing the business edition |
| 02:43.14 | mheath | I would give you the best I have to offer, and price it fairly...and leave it at that. |
| 02:43.15 | levi | mheath: That's silly. |
| 02:43.55 | levi | mheath: Offering a less-featureful version for people who want it doesn't deprive people who want to pay more and get the full-featured version from doing so. |
| 02:44.34 | mheath | levi: why not price one version at a cheap, reasonable cost? |
| 02:44.38 | levi | mheath: And it allows people who don't need all the features to get your product for much less, allowing you to greatly expand both your low and high end markets. |
| 02:44.47 | mheath | One version that can be flexibly extended to the users desires. |
| 02:45.04 | ScytheBlade1 | mheath, because some people like wizards that do stuff for them. I, however, enjoy a much more... less user friendly enviroment with less crap |
| 02:45.28 | griffeymac | So they develop a "working" version, sell it as "professional" then strip out enough parts that make it half-not-work and sell that as "home." |
| 02:45.40 | ScytheBlade1 | Further, the average home user doesn't need drive-level encryption. The business may. |
| 02:45.41 | mheath | ScytheBlade1, yet you defend Vista, which a recent editorial complained tried to hold your hand, protecting you from yourself, and bringing you thorugh endless mazes of OK dialog boxes. |
| 02:45.59 | ScytheBlade1 | mheath, uhhh....? What? |
| 02:46.03 | Kuyaedz | http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9000829&pageNumber=12 [list of versions & features] |
| 02:46.24 | levi | I'm not specifically defending any specific Microsoft product version strategies, just the general concept. |
| 02:46.38 | griffeymac | The control of MS has almost been their undoing. Use it at your own risk. ;) |
| 02:47.06 | mheath | I find the whole concept of Software in the traditional sense to be silly, anyway. |
| 02:47.08 | ScytheBlade1 | moment |
| 02:47.10 | levi | For a product that is largely sold to businesses and professionals, a tiered product plan can make a huge amount of sense. |
| 02:47.10 | ScytheBlade1 | Helping sister |
| 02:47.35 | mheath | FlexNet will fix those problems when I'm done with it, though :) |
| 02:47.50 | Kuyaedz | I'm curious about the Windows DVD Maker feature. If this is missing in your version does that mean its plain gone, or you just need Nero, etc like it is now? |
| 02:48.29 | Kuyaedz | in other words, does it remove all functionality from your DVD burner, or simply the included software to handle it? |
| 02:48.53 | ScytheBlade1 | Okay, there, I have a moment now |
| 02:49.06 | mheath | brb |
| 02:49.10 | levi | If your product can gain your business customers a lot of extra profit, you can ask a large sum for it when selling to businesses. However, providing a cheap educational or home-use version can create grassroots support that will help build your profitable business customer base as well. |
| 02:50.02 | ScytheBlade1 | mheath, first off, that computerworld article is pretty much utter lies and bullcrap. The writer is horribly ignorant and switched views from "normal end-user who doesn't know anything about computers" to "YOU CHANGED POWER USER FEATURE X ON ME AND I DON'T LIKE IT!" |
| 02:50.12 | ScytheBlade1 | In sum, that article is a really, really horrible article for many reasons |
| 02:50.39 | mheath | ScytheBlade1, I have not read that article nor do I know anything about it |
| 02:50.53 | levi | If the pool of available workers is familiar with and likes your software, more businesses will choose it over competitors, even if it is very expensive. |
| 02:50.55 | ScytheBlade1 | <mheath> ScytheBlade1, yet you defend Vista, which a recent editorial complained tried to hold your hand, protecting you from yourself, and bringing you thorugh endless mazes of OK dialog boxes. <-- what was that referencing then? |
| 02:51.10 | mheath | Argh, IE 7's back button doesn't change color or give any indication you can't go back |
| 02:51.18 | mheath | frustrating when something pops up a new window, and I try to go back. |
| 02:51.23 | mheath | bbiab |
| 02:51.27 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@thelances.net) |
| 02:51.32 | ScytheBlade1 | Or not. |
| 02:52.34 | levi | Anyway, people who think all commercial software should be cheap and have a single price are naive. |
| 02:52.51 | ScytheBlade1 | The thing is, I can't write all of this up and post it, because it would literally take up over four pages of 12pt font at 1600x1200 |
| 02:52.55 | ScytheBlade1 | And you'd all hate me for that :) |
| 02:53.14 | griffeymac | levi: tell that to RMS... ;) |
| 02:53.28 | bertbob | the same reason, user lock in, is cited for "big software company" not going after bootleggers too hard |
| 02:54.29 | Kuyaedz | ScythBlade1: write it up & use the 'read more' feature. We can read the rest, if we like :) |
| 02:55.04 | Kuyaedz | I very honestly doubt I'll use Vista anymore than I use my dual-boot XP, but I am curious about it. |
| 02:55.09 | ScytheBlade1 | Kuyaedz, where is that in wordpress? |
| 02:56.08 | mheath | levi: I've put a lot of thought into a business structure that would support such a commercial software model |
| 02:56.11 | Kuyaedz | uhm, in the nice & pretty editor it is the 5th button from the right. Just to the right of the insert-picture |
| 02:56.19 | mheath | Including writing a 40 page business plan related to that for a class in school. |
| 02:56.43 | Kuyaedz | ScythBlade1: or its alt-t |
| 02:56.50 | ScytheBlade1 | Kuyaedz, I'm on wordpress 2.0.3 |
| 02:56.59 | mheath | Granted, I was also introducing some other products in that same service plan. |
| 02:57.01 | ScytheBlade1 | Oh hey, check that out |
| 02:57.04 | ScytheBlade1 | That's *nice* |
| 02:57.06 | Kuyaedz | I'm on 2.02.. should be the same |
| 02:57.21 | mheath | I wowed some people with that business plan...... |
| 02:57.36 | ScytheBlade1 | Kuyaedz, I shall then, you subscribed to openclut? |
| 02:57.40 | ScytheBlade1 | s/openclut/openclue/ |
| 02:57.44 | mheath | Just normal, non-techy kids from our school...I presented some concepts and ideas that they never thought they'd be able to do with a computer. |
| 02:57.51 | Kuyaedz | I do |
| 02:57.55 | mheath | Revolutionary new things. I absolutely love FlexNet ;0 |
| 02:58.02 | mheath | erm, :) |
| 02:58.02 | ScytheBlade1 | Kuyaedz, well, you'll see it on there over the weekend then ;) |
| 02:58.07 | ScytheBlade1 | Kuyaedz, anything in specific you'd like to know? |
| 02:58.49 | Kuyaedz | Well I'm looking at the version vs feature list. I'm interested in what those features actually include. |
| 02:59.29 | ScytheBlade1 | Kuyaedz, from what perspective? The "big thing" with this is end user (computer stupid) vs. power user/etc |
| 02:59.35 | ScytheBlade1 | I mean, what are you looking for? |
| 03:00.07 | ScytheBlade1 | I'll tell you now that I ignore all of the multimedia stuff, namely media center |
| 03:00.40 | Kuyaedz | I don't know.. I'm sure if you respond to that other post it'd answer a lot of questions |
| 03:00.50 | ScytheBlade1 | Haha, okay, which other post? |
| 03:01.11 | Kuyaedz | that one on openclue you were rantin' about all day :) |
| 03:01.18 | *** join/#utah levi___ (n=levi@levi.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 03:01.21 | *** join/#utah levi____ (n=levi@levi.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 03:01.23 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 03:01.24 | ScytheBlade1 | "To beat a dead horse?" |
| 03:01.24 | levi | bertbob: Indeed. This is just capitalizing on the people who wouldn't bootleg if a limited version was available at a consumer-friendly price. |
| 03:01.28 | ScytheBlade1 | Yeah, not touching that one, sorry |
| 03:01.33 | mheath | Contemporary software has boxed us in to a stupid corner, anyway. |
| 03:01.41 | ScytheBlade1 | Article writer is... too stupid to bother with I've decided |
| 03:01.56 | Kuyaedz | or a response to the computerworld I guess. You said that was an ignorant article |
| 03:02.23 | ScytheBlade1 | *very* ignorant - and that's the same thing I'm talking about |
| 03:02.41 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm not saying the poster of the blog is dumb, just the computerworld article he summarizes ;) |
| 03:03.28 | Kuyaedz | Well it sounds like you're up to bat to set some facts straight. |
| 03:03.34 | ScytheBlade1 | I'll give you that |
| 03:04.18 | mheath | Formats, and software......Protocols...capabilities. |
| 03:04.30 | ScytheBlade1 | mheath, ? |
| 03:04.31 | mheath | Static displays........linearization... |
| 03:04.34 | mheath | Its all stupid and flawed. |
| 03:04.39 | ScytheBlade1 | Ah. |
| 03:04.56 | mheath | Like I said, all software, all thinking related to computers..has boxed us into a stupid corner. |
| 03:04.58 | Kuyaedz | I don't suppose you have any other article links that we could look at that are less.. biased/flawed? |
| 03:06.08 | ScytheBlade1 | I get a lot of my information from 1) actual usage 2) the chief architecht of visual studio 3) channel 9 videos and 4) the windows gurus that I know - who are honestly scary with the amount of windows knowledge they have |
| 03:06.34 | ScytheBlade1 | To balance that all out - I've got my own little embedded computer with a hand-baked distro I made for it (not LFS) |
| 03:07.01 | ScytheBlade1 | So I at least like to pretend that I know my stuff, take that as you please ;) |
| 03:07.11 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch@71-35-242-224.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 03:07.15 | levi___ | griffeymac: I'm not sure RMS would disagree, though he very well might. I didn't say anything about the freedom status of source code. |
| 03:07.22 | ScytheBlade1 | As far as other articles, not really, I get most all of my information "straight from the horses mouth" so to speak |
| 03:07.42 | ScytheBlade1 | (But I also actually use it to make sure ;)) |
| 03:08.14 | levi | mheath: You sound like Vorlath. |
| 03:08.24 | Kuyaedz | ..and Vista is something you would prefer over *nix? ..or are you already an XP guy..? (just getting a feel for where you're coming from) |
| 03:08.33 | griffeymac | levi: point well made. :) But who knows what RMS would say at any given time. ;) |
| 03:08.50 | mheath | levi: Who's that? |
| 03:09.11 | levi | mheath: http://my.opera.com/Vorlath/blog/ |
| 03:09.17 | levi | Some guy I've ranted about before. |
| 03:09.24 | ScytheBlade1 | Kuyaedz, I use gentoo as a primary box with an XP box sitting beside me. At work, it's largely a windows shop (no other options) - server 2k3, MSSQL, the works - but every bit of networking is powered with linux |
| 03:09.44 | mheath | Seriously. Think about. Computers are tools to manipulate data. Information. To view it, alter it. |
| 03:09.47 | ScytheBlade1 | firewalling, routing, P-to-P T1, VPN, all done with linux |
| 03:10.01 | ScytheBlade1 | I use whatever is best for the job :) |
| 03:10.05 | ScytheBlade1 | (imo) |
| 03:10.14 | Kuyaedz | so I guess it sounds like, yeah, you appreciate the benefits of both |
| 03:10.29 | griffeymac | Good night folks. I'm going to go play a game on my XP box. ;) |
| 03:10.34 | mheath | And instead of extending the data we're able to view, edit, format, and the ways we can do that.....Traditional software has boxed us into a corner of I-have-Word-so-I-Can-Edit-.DOC |
| 03:10.36 | ScytheBlade1 | I will be replacing every XP box of mine with vista at soonest option |
| 03:10.51 | ScytheBlade1 | But they won't be replacing any linux |
| 03:10.59 | ScytheBlade1 | And of my personal boxes, windows is in the minority |
| 03:11.55 | mheath | No body ever gives a damn about my FlexNet idea, but I think it would revolutionize the way software is seen, and the way you expect your computer to work. |
| 03:12.05 | Kuyaedz | I see where XP has its place for a lot of people, but for me I find it more difficult to work vs *nix |
| 03:12.06 | mheath | Erm, pardon my language. |
| 03:12.13 | levi | mheath: What is your FlexNet idea, anyway? I don't recall the name. |
| 03:12.48 | mheath | levi: It's an abstract global distributed object framework, combined with some novel applications for it. |
| 03:12.54 | levi | mheath: Ahh, that one. |
| 03:13.02 | ScytheBlade1 | Kuyaedz, oddly enough, I'd argue that windows is much, much easier to maintain in the business than linux, when used in any number of machines over 15 (even despite all of the spyware, etc.) |
| 03:13.25 | mheath | ScytheBlade1, LMAO! |
| 03:13.31 | ScytheBlade1 | mheath, you think I'm kidding? |
| 03:13.51 | levi | mheath: I would challenge you to point out any high school kid's grand plans that are taken seriously by people at large without having some working prototype already in use? |
| 03:14.06 | mheath | levi: Thats what I'm working on :) |
| 03:14.23 | levi | mheath: You're not serious about it. You're joining the Marines. |
| 03:14.26 | ScytheBlade1 | Price is another realm though :) |
| 03:14.44 | Kuyaedz | I've never maintained a large *nix network but my previous office of 20+ XP machines sure required very regular maintenance & cleanup |
| 03:14.47 | mheath | levi: I'm joining the Marine Corp so I can get money to pay for college and start my own business. |
| 03:15.00 | ScytheBlade1 | Kuyaedz, were they on a windows domain running as guest accounts? |
| 03:15.02 | Kuyaedz | IE6 + spyware sure did NOT help things. Some users refused to use FF because "it looks different" |
| 03:15.07 | mheath | I have other motivations to join the corp, but that has always been my reason to join the military. |
| 03:15.57 | ScytheBlade1 | Kuyaedz, if not, yeah it's over, give up now and choose another job ;D |
| 03:16.19 | ScytheBlade1 | In that post which will remain unpublished - I mentioned a guy I know, who would count as a windows guru |
| 03:16.41 | ScytheBlade1 | He runs Windows 2000, as a guest, and has over 200 days of uptime |
| 03:16.59 | ScytheBlade1 | (And yes, he runs windows update as needed) |
| 03:17.37 | mheath | levi: Something has to be said for me discussing some basics of what FlexNet could do that normal systems can't with some non-techy highschool students, and having them be amazed. |
| 03:17.43 | Kuyaedz | ScythBlade1: Mainly personal accounts on each box & half the users had Admin. Yeah, I quit already |
| 03:17.54 | ScytheBlade1 | Kuyaedz, power to you |
| 03:18.21 | ScytheBlade1 | Kuyaedz, it's my dad's business that I work for... when I got it, it was windows 98 boxes with an NT4 domain controller |
| 03:18.27 | levi | mheath: Anyway, it's not surprising that people don't take you seriously, considering your situation. And I think that particular grand scheme of yours is flawed, anyway. |
| 03:18.27 | ScytheBlade1 | Worlds apart from XP + 2k3 |
| 03:18.39 | mheath | levi: Why is that? |
| 03:18.41 | Kuyaedz | I really don't understand how people prefer look & feel vs security |
| 03:19.13 | ScytheBlade1 | Kuyaedz, let's just say this: I hate the job. I'm paid crap for the work that I do. Likewise, they can't afford to lose me, as they'd be paying someone else 2-3x as much. |
| 03:19.32 | ScytheBlade1 | Kuyaedz, end result, they can't really threaten to fire me, and I have a large amount of control over end user's actions :) |
| 03:19.38 | Kuyaedz | ScythBlade1: did you see the post I pastebin'd that my uncle sent me? Makes me cringe |
| 03:19.43 | Kuyaedz | sounds like the place you want to be :) |
| 03:19.43 | ScytheBlade1 | Kuyaedz, nope |
| 03:19.50 | levi | mheath: If I remember correctly, you want to replace traditional internet services with a distributed object directory and remote procedure call-type interfaces, right? |
| 03:20.02 | Kuyaedz | let me see if I can find it.. |
| 03:20.23 | ScytheBlade1 | brb |
| 03:20.23 | mheath | levi: Yes. Theres proxies for traditional services too |
| 03:20.35 | levi | Right. |
| 03:20.36 | mheath | System.http."www.google.com".getPage(); |
| 03:20.43 | Kuyaedz | ScythBlade1: http://christer.pastebin.com/751530 |
| 03:20.45 | mheath | etc. |
| 03:21.03 | *** join/#utah ScytheBlade1 (n=Death@about/pxe/ScytheBlade1) |
| 03:21.31 | Kuyaedz | ScythBlade1: makes me realize people really do just want look & feel vs security. http://christer.pastebin.com/751530 |
| 03:21.43 | mheath | levi: I'll discuss this with you later, and give you a paper about FlexNet. I have to run. |
| 03:21.49 | levi | mheath: OK. |
| 03:22.09 | Kuyaedz | basically lists everything Thunderbird already does.. |
| 03:22.12 | ScytheBlade1 | Kuyaedz, I'd kill to have users like him though |
| 03:22.18 | ScytheBlade1 | Kuyaedz, end result, as long as it works, he's happy |
| 03:22.28 | ScytheBlade1 | And outlook runs fine as a guest with nazi security policies |
| 03:22.55 | Kuyaedz | trying to find his reply to me after I mentioned the OSS alternatives.. |
| 03:23.25 | ScytheBlade1 | my ONE complaint about Mozilla stuff: no (*TRUE*) .msi installers, and lack of group policy support |
| 03:24.11 | Kuyaedz | The reply that, sadly, most people believe. http://christer.pastebin.com/752753 |
| 03:24.46 | ScytheBlade1 | It's sad, but true |
| 03:25.34 | ScytheBlade1 | I tried to switch one person in specific to ThunderBird |
| 03:26.02 | Kuyaedz | I think it is very quickly becoming the opposite, but its hard to convince people. |
| 03:26.02 | ScytheBlade1 | She ditched it, because when you hit reply, it defaults to typing on the bottom of the e-mail, not the top like Outlook. |
| 03:26.47 | Kuyaedz | Yeah I had a guy at that last office who preferred ME on his home machines because he didn't like the new XP start menu. I showed him the 'use classic view' and he reluctantly switched. |
| 03:27.10 | ScytheBlade1 | End-users are funny |
| 03:27.15 | Kuyaedz | people hold onto some stupid things w/o ever looking for the feature/option to customize it |
| 03:27.18 | ScytheBlade1 | Then again, in their eyes, we're just plain weird :) |
| 03:27.34 | Kuyaedz | honestly though, we ARE weird :) |
| 03:27.46 | ScytheBlade1 | It's true |
| 03:30.50 | ScytheBlade1 | Kuyaedz, drop a comment @ http://boredom.brantleyonline.com/?p=18 |
| 03:30.56 | ScytheBlade1 | With stuff you'd like to know about |
| 03:31.01 | ScytheBlade1 | (Vista related) |
| 03:31.03 | ScytheBlade1 | And anyone else, heh |
| 03:31.36 | Kuyaedz | I'll try to come up with some good questions |
| 03:32.10 | ScytheBlade1 | I suck as UI stuff, but if you try and sell me that Vista is XP with SP3, then I can set things straight ;) |
| 03:32.13 | ScytheBlade1 | That kinda thing |
| 03:32.17 | ScytheBlade1 | *at |
| 03:34.41 | *** join/#utah Kuyaedz (n=Kuyaedz@kuyaedz.fttp.xmission.com) |
| 03:35.36 | levi | Heh, my math Ph.D. friend on cousin terminology: http://www.maykids.org/drupal/node/761 |
| 03:38.03 | Kuyaedz | annoying. now I'm getting "you are not genuine" in my XP install. |
| 03:38.43 | Kuyaedz | I am entitled to a copy of XP but my sticker rubbed off my notebook & I had to reinstall. |
| 03:41.10 | Kuyaedz | I've actually got four machines that came with windows but I have no restore CDs |
| 03:41.51 | ScytheBlade1 | Just use a "corporate key" |
| 03:41.58 | ScytheBlade1 | No activation, etc. |
| 03:42.15 | Kuyaedz | have one? |
| 03:42.52 | ScytheBlade1 | Not on me atm - what are you trying to get to? |
| 03:43.34 | Kuyaedz | just have updates on my XP partition using a 'valid' key. After the last update I did its now nagging me about not being geniune. |
| 03:43.52 | ScytheBlade1 | Hmm |
| 03:43.56 | ScytheBlade1 | One moment |
| 03:44.12 | ScytheBlade1 | Give me a good random number for a port |
| 03:44.20 | ScytheBlade1 | In the 32k+ range |
| 03:44.22 | Kuyaedz | looking under one of these notebooks now it does have a key, but its for Home and I only have a pirate Pro copy. |
| 03:44.30 | Kuyaedz | 32476 |
| 03:44.51 | Kuyaedz | ..should have watched out for those restore CDs I guess :) |
| 03:45.51 | ScytheBlade1 | XP Pro? |
| 03:46.12 | Kuyaedz | after realizing I lost my restore CDs I downloaded Pro |
| 03:46.18 | ScytheBlade1 | 'k |
| 03:46.23 | ScytheBlade1 | start --> run --> gpedit.msc |
| 03:46.34 | ScytheBlade1 | Computer Config, Admin Templates, Windows Components, Windows Update |
| 03:47.07 | Kuyaedz | k |
| 03:47.16 | ScytheBlade1 | Select "Specify intranet Microsoft update service location" |
| 03:47.35 | ScytheBlade1 | Hmm, I just realized that my round-robin DNS will break this |
| 03:47.38 | ScytheBlade1 | Sec as I add a record |
| 03:48.12 | Kuyaedz | I dont see that option. Specify intranet ms update |
| 03:48.19 | ScytheBlade1 | That'd be it |
| 03:48.39 | ScytheBlade1 | Set both fields to that URL I just /notice'd you |
| 03:49.12 | ScytheBlade1 | Then, under "Enable client-side targeting" |
| 03:49.15 | ScytheBlade1 | Set that to "Remote" |
| 03:49.59 | Kuyaedz | under Windows Update subfolder I have 'remove access to use windows update features", "do not display install updates option", "do not adjust default option" |
| 03:50.04 | ScytheBlade1 | This SP2? |
| 03:50.31 | Kuyaedz | yes |
| 03:50.43 | ScytheBlade1 | Ah |
| 03:50.47 | ScytheBlade1 | You're in the User Config |
| 03:50.51 | ScytheBlade1 | Go up to the top ^^ |
| 03:51.10 | Kuyaedz | oops |
| 03:53.15 | Kuyaedz | ok I think I've changed those settings |
| 03:53.15 | ScytheBlade1 | Double-check the URL to make sure |
| 03:53.18 | Kuyaedz | ok |
| 03:53.19 | ScytheBlade1 | And end result, you'll be spoon-fed all of the updates regardless of how "genuine" your windows is |
| 03:54.29 | ScytheBlade1 | "danger" huh |
| 03:54.40 | ScytheBlade1 | by Dell |
| 03:54.47 | Kuyaedz | that link needs to be in both fields in the 'specify intranet' field? |
| 03:54.51 | ScytheBlade1 | Right |
| 03:54.59 | ScytheBlade1 | That'll point windows update --> me |
| 03:55.05 | ScytheBlade1 | (The windows update client, that is) |
| 03:55.26 | Kuyaedz | not the update.windows.your.not.genuine URL though |
| 03:55.56 | ScytheBlade1 | No, but you will recieve every update period |
| 03:56.12 | ScytheBlade1 | (And without talking to MS about it ;)) |
| 03:57.04 | Kuyaedz | well that is a cool little hack |
| 03:57.21 | ScytheBlade1 | It is illegal to service pirated copies this way |
| 03:57.29 | ScytheBlade1 | But considering the circumstances, I'm okay with it |
| 03:57.40 | Kuyaedz | I've still got that annoying 'your not genuine' icon in my systray :( |
| 03:57.43 | ScytheBlade1 | You have a genuine copy, you can't seem to use it anymore |
| 03:57.49 | Kuyaedz | right |
| 03:57.51 | ScytheBlade1 | Oh, there's a way to kill that |
| 03:57.56 | ScytheBlade1 | Actually |
| 03:58.07 | ScytheBlade1 | End result, once your computer syncs up with that |
| 03:58.12 | ScytheBlade1 | It'll automatically remove the update that does that |
| 03:58.14 | Kuyaedz | Assuming I can maintain my network shares using Home I'd be ok using Home with my 'geniune' key |
| 03:58.49 | ScytheBlade1 | hey, set that "Client-side targeting" to "Remote" please |
| 03:58.51 | ScytheBlade1 | (less quotes) |
| 03:59.01 | Kuyaedz | I use XP for my DVD Burner & for samba shares to my *nix boxes. |
| 03:59.08 | ScytheBlade1 | That lets me group computers as I need to and approve/whatever updates as I need to |
| 04:00.11 | Kuyaedz | Enable client-side targeting : enabled : Target group for this computer : Remote |
| 04:00.15 | ScytheBlade1 | 'k |
| 04:00.21 | ScytheBlade1 | It'll sync up eventually then |
| 04:01.28 | Kuyaedz | so do these updates just keep as up to date as you are & use like your update cache? |
| 04:01.56 | ScytheBlade1 | I have to manually approve/decline updates for detection/installation |
| 04:02.02 | ScytheBlade1 | They're also downloaded from my server, yes |
| 04:04.52 | ScytheBlade1 | It also looks like you're already completly up to date |
| 04:05.21 | Kuyaedz | That's surprising |
| 04:05.39 | ScytheBlade1 | 65 updates installed |
| 04:05.55 | ScytheBlade1 | okay, fyi: there is *limited* info sent to me |
| 04:06.03 | Kuyaedz | I was going to say.. |
| 04:06.11 | ScytheBlade1 | IP address, make/model of your computer, computer name, and update status |
| 04:06.16 | ScytheBlade1 | But that's it |
| 04:07.36 | Kuyaedz | so technically as long as a network has one valid key everyone could update from that machine? |
| 04:07.49 | ScytheBlade1 | What do you mean? |
| 04:08.11 | ScytheBlade1 | Oh |
| 04:08.21 | ScytheBlade1 | Technically, you can have 0 valid keys and still get updates with that |
| 04:08.22 | Kuyaedz | Well using this method I don't have a 'real' key so I update from your central server. In theory I could do that to an entire LAN |
| 04:08.25 | ScytheBlade1 | Hence why I PM'd you the URL |
| 04:08.40 | ScytheBlade1 | it doesn't check keys - at all |
| 04:09.01 | Kuyaedz | but one of them needs to be valid to be the update gateway for the whole |
| 04:09.08 | ScytheBlade1 | Nope. |
| 04:09.24 | ScytheBlade1 | *Zero* key checking is going on. |
| 04:09.25 | *** join/#utah spr (n=spr@c-67-169-251-207.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 04:10.07 | Kuyaedz | isn't yours checked and then updates are forwarded to me? |
| 04:10.13 | ScytheBlade1 | Nope. |
| 04:10.22 | ScytheBlade1 | It just downloads the catalog of updates from MS |
| 04:10.26 | ScytheBlade1 | Then the updates themselves from MS |
| 04:11.05 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm basically running a mini windows update service |
| 04:11.07 | Kuyaedz | hmm.. interesting |
| 04:11.29 | ScytheBlade1 | http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserversystem/updateservices/default.mspx <-- one of the reasons why I like windows in the business |
| 04:12.24 | Kuyaedz | brb |
| 04:14.00 | findlay | ~lart stupid music |
| 04:18.03 | *** join/#utah TacoJockey (n=linuxali@tor/session/external/x-ba91699ca59a6a6e) |
| 04:20.33 | levi | findlay: The devil is in the beat. |
| 04:22.27 | findlay | levi: indeed |
| 04:22.41 | *** join/#utah xbmodder_lappy (i=nobody@atarack/staff/xbmodder) |
| 04:22.44 | xbmodder_lappy | ~lart me |
| 04:22.44 | levi | findlay: He wants your soul. |
| 04:22.56 | xbmodder_lappy | findlay, me too, I want your soul too.. |
| 04:23.10 | xbmodder_lappy | anyone here have a box with ipw3945? |
| 04:23.13 | levi | findlay: You should find the Aphex Twin "Come to Daddy" video. |
| 04:23.31 | findlay | xbmodder_lappy: just a minute. I know I have it around here somewhere ... |
| 04:25.44 | levi | Ahh, here we go: http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2676793?htv=12 |
| 04:26.48 | findlay | scared away the aliens |
| 04:33.45 | *** part/#utah TacoJockey (n=linuxali@tor/session/external/x-ba91699ca59a6a6e) |
| 04:35.02 | levi | Did you watch it? |
| 04:38.35 | findlay | the page doesn't load for me |
| 04:42.39 | ScytheBlade1 | mmmmmmm sleep |
| 04:43.11 | levi | Try http://www.milkandcookies.com/links/38264/ |
| 04:48.15 | findlay | levi: that was weird |
| 04:48.27 | levi | Yes. |
| 04:48.47 | levi | It's weird, but AWESOME. |
| 04:49.19 | levi | And your connection is obviously much faster than mine, if you've already finished watching it. |
| 04:56.19 | xbmodder_lappy | what is that |
| 04:56.38 | findlay | levi: I didn't watch it all the way through. Do they break out into a song and dance at the end or something? |
| 04:57.09 | levi | How far did you watch? |
| 04:57.18 | findlay | about 2/3 |
| 04:58.17 | levi | Well, something different does happen at the end. |
| 05:04.50 | findlay | um, that was retarded |
| 05:05.07 | findlay | and disgusting |
| 05:08.57 | *** join/#utah amcnabb (n=amcnabb@c-67-169-251-207.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 05:09.07 | *** join/#utah SpecialK (n=Bob@cpe-66-69-221-165.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 05:19.25 | xbmodder_lappy | frick |
| 05:19.46 | findlay | frack |
| 05:25.38 | *** join/#utah levi (n=levi@levi.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 05:25.55 | findlay | oct has to be the stupidest isp in the world |
| 05:26.01 | findlay | ~lart oct |
| 05:27.53 | *** join/#utah levi_ (n=levi@levi.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 05:28.37 | findlay | if they throttle my bandwidth any more I might as well be using dialup |
| 05:28.59 | findlay | utterly shameful because they have fiber coming right to the apartment complex |
| 05:29.01 | levi | Heh. My connection is so bad I keep losing it entirely. |
| 05:29.27 | findlay | levi: dialup? |
| 05:29.28 | *** join/#utah hckrSid (n=sid@lre-west-3-182.usahousing.utah.edu) |
| 05:29.44 | levi | DSL |
| 05:30.11 | levi | The Qwest portion is the problem, not xmission. |
| 05:30.21 | findlay | it's got to be better than the stuff these charlatans provide |
| 05:30.30 | levi | Right now, I doubt it. |
| 05:30.42 | findlay | 20k max download |
| 05:30.46 | findlay | how's that? |
| 05:30.50 | *** part/#utah hckrSid (n=sid@lre-west-3-182.usahousing.utah.edu) |
| 05:30.55 | findlay | on a fiber pipe no less |
| 05:30.58 | levi | I've lost the connection entirely for 15 minutes or so at a time 3 or 4 times tonight. |
| 05:31.00 | findlay | it just makes me sick |
| 05:31.20 | levi | And my download speeds suck when the connection isn't down. |
| 05:31.29 | findlay | what are they at? |
| 05:31.45 | findlay | so much for iProvo |
| 05:31.56 | findlay | ~lart iProvo |
| 05:31.58 | levi | 15k or so, just a bit ago. |
| 05:32.05 | findlay | levi: ouch |
| 05:32.11 | levi | No kidding. |
| 05:32.17 | levi | And I'm paying for 1.5mbit. |
| 05:32.43 | *** join/#utah hckrSid (n=sid@lre-west-3-182.usahousing.utah.edu) |
| 05:32.57 | findlay | I'm just angry now because they just now arbitrarly lowered the throughput tonight |
| 05:33.14 | *** join/#utah mheath (n=mheath@c-67-182-231-23.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 05:33.15 | findlay | it used to hover at around 1 Mbs |
| 05:33.31 | levi | At least you were able to download the Come to Daddy video. |
| 05:33.43 | findlay | then 500 kb/s |
| 05:33.47 | findlay | then 250 |
| 05:33.51 | findlay | now 20 |
| 05:34.02 | findlay | crappy service |
| 05:35.51 | findlay | I'd gladly accept xmission with iprovo |
| 05:36.36 | mheath | agh, I think IE7 broke. |
| 05:36.56 | mheath | Someone give me an FTP link to firefox? |
| 05:37.00 | mheath | firefox's installer |
| 05:37.20 | mheath | (For Windows XP) |
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| 05:42.30 | findlay | http://www.mozilla.com/products/download.html?product=firefox-1.5.0.4&os=win&lang=en-US |
| 05:43.07 | findlay | if you can't wget that then blame windows for not coming with a decent set of shell utilities |
| 05:43.47 | Supaplex | how about a robust tcp/ip stack |
| 05:44.15 | findlay | maybe that's it |
| 05:49.05 | xbmodder_lappy | I wish the concentration of geeks was 91% |
| 05:50.18 | findlay | my concentrate needs a little more water |
| 05:56.36 | xbmodder_lappy | it does? |
| 05:56.45 | xbmodder_lappy | I think a 90/10 split is good |
| 06:05.21 | mheath | levi: around? |
| 06:05.42 | levi | mheath: Not really. Need to finish reading an assignment and get to bed. |
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| 06:05.51 | mheath | Ah, Ok. Have a good night :) |
| 06:06.37 | mheath | Alas, I don't think I'll be able to say I'm a geek much longer :P |
| 06:06.47 | mheath | Hehe, I could be a gun geek :) |
| 06:06.59 | levi | I have jury duty this week, so I have to get enough rest to stay awake during the trial. |
| 06:07.11 | mheath | levi: Just fall asleep and save yourself the trouble :P |
| 06:07.49 | levi | Tried that; the judge doesn't like it. |
| 06:07.58 | findlay | levi: I was on jury duty too from January to May. I got called twice but both cases didn't go to trial |
| 06:11.09 | mheath | I don't have the original InDesign doc for this PDf anymore |
| 06:11.23 | mheath | but thanks to ghostscript & gimp, i can render a flat copy and edit it. |
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| 06:17.51 | levi | findlay: A friend of mine is on a jury for a trial that's scheduled to last all month. |
| 06:19.26 | findlay | levi: that would be interesting |
| 06:19.54 | levi | Trials are kind of interesting, but full of tedious detail. |
| 06:20.38 | mheath | Yeah. Unforunately, not very many of them are the "Aha! This is what _really_ happened!" type you see on Matlock :P |
| 06:22.00 | findlay | could be interesting once or twice |
| 06:22.27 | levi | Mine's scheduled to last for 4 days, and I don't think I'd want to deal with any more than that. |
| 06:22.53 | levi | mheath: Actually, there is an element of that. But it's not quite as dramatic. |
| 06:23.05 | levi | Nor as well-scripted. |
| 06:23.31 | levi | Real-life lawyers don't seem to be as eloquent or well-prepared as their TV counterparts. |
| 06:23.45 | levi | Anyway, I finished reading, so it's time to sleep. |
| 06:24.02 | levi | Hopefully we don't deliberate for too long tomorrow. :/ |
| 06:38.10 | mheath | ScytheBlade1, I have a friend in California who is a chief tech for a major datacenter. He works with thousands of computers. He got a big kick of your "windows is better for largscale deployment" comment........thought it was a joke. |
| 06:50.33 | Kuyaedz | uh ohh. here we go again |
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| 06:54.53 | findlay | ha |
| 06:55.10 | findlay | where are we going? |
| 06:56.57 | findlay | ~ha |
| 06:57.03 | ibot | Sugar: scotch on the rocks |
| 06:57.12 | findlay | whatever |
| 07:05.56 | mheath | Goodnight |
| 07:29.39 | bertbob | http://www.travelingtiger.com/tiensblog/uploaded_images/beached_limo-754970.jpg |
| 07:43.47 | QBFreak | this is so amusing |
| 07:43.58 | QBFreak | watching someone try to tell my bot 'you are this' and 'you are that' |
| 07:44.10 | QBFreak | and he keeps responding, "but you are 'my daddy'" |
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| 13:45.14 | sjansen | ~rart |
| 13:45.17 | sjansen | ~rlart |
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| 13:51.47 | sjansen | ~plonk goozbach |
| 13:54.30 | redbeard1 | goozbach: ping |
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| 14:20.41 | redbeard1 | man, where is that jayce guy? he's so lazy lately |
| 14:30.16 | elg | ~lart sjansen |
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| 14:40.39 | tensai | redbeard1: the parchment paper worked perfectly for the granola |
| 14:41.48 | tensai | redbeard1: it's a little harder to form it in, but well worth the effort when it comes out |
| 14:42.34 | Jayce^ | ls |
| 14:42.39 | Jayce^ | :) |
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| 14:45.15 | redbeard1 | tensai: sweet. glad it worked for you. i'm gonna have to make some of those myself now. |
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| 14:53.45 | graphyx | switching? |
| 14:53.49 | graphyx | ahh.. |
| 14:53.51 | graphyx | nvm |
| 14:54.16 | graphyx | So why doesn't someone write up a MAC osx app for focus follows eyes using the built in camera? |
| 14:54.19 | graphyx | ;) |
| 14:54.22 | graphyx | That would be sweet. |
| 14:54.30 | jsmith | Yeah, switching from that machine to this one, since I don't have an IRC proxy setup yet |
| 14:54.41 | graphyx | gotcha. |
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| 15:08.18 | elg | -lart vontrapp |
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| 15:36.01 | mheath | yah, it works! |
| 16:09.35 | neybar | does anyone know how to make a self-signed wildcard ssl cert? |
| 16:09.51 | neybar | is it just a matter of making the CA *.name? |
| 16:09.59 | neybar | err CN *.name |
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| 16:16.36 | goozbach | yes? |
| 16:17.54 | [Utah]tristanbob | neybar: what distro? |
| 16:18.12 | [Utah]tristanbob | neybar: oh, wildcard cert... not sure about that |
| 16:18.28 | [Utah]tristanbob | digicert.com |
| 16:19.21 | [Utah]tristanbob | we use those commercial wildcard certs |
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| 16:22.22 | sjansen | goozbach: no! |
| 16:22.27 | goozbach | ok |
| 16:24.45 | neybar | *.name is what I am running with. I'll let you know once the server is up and running. |
| 16:25.02 | graphyx | you have a *.name ssl cert? |
| 16:25.15 | neybar | that is what I am trying to create |
| 16:25.20 | graphyx | Oh. |
| 16:25.25 | graphyx | Think they will grant it? |
| 16:25.40 | graphyx | I think the only thing worse than allowing a *.name ssl cert would be granting a *.com ssl cert. |
| 16:25.48 | neybar | I'm sure I have no problem with it, I just don't know if it will actually work. |
| 16:26.08 | graphyx | Well just think about it. |
| 16:26.10 | neybar | name can be further expanded... mydomain.com |
| 16:26.39 | graphyx | If you are granted an ssl cert for *.name then you could spoof SSL access to any .name website. |
| 16:26.47 | graphyx | banks, shopping, etc... |
| 16:26.57 | [Utah]tristanbob | he is talking about a self-signed cert |
| 16:26.57 | neybar | I'm not terribly worried about security, this is an alpha environment on a private network. |
| 16:27.15 | graphyx | It isn't your security that is the concern. |
| 16:27.43 | graphyx | If a root CA were to grant a cert like that to someone there is the potential for misuse. |
| 16:28.11 | neybar | I think you are hung up on the *.name part. name is not what i'm using. I have a fq dns name that I am actually issuing for. |
| 16:28.25 | neybar | *.my.alpha.env.corp.blah |
| 16:28.29 | graphyx | ahh... |
| 16:28.34 | graphyx | That is entirely different. |
| 16:29.01 | graphyx | I thought you meant a literal *.name ssl cert. |
| 16:29.07 | graphyx | You meant *.fqdn |
| 16:29.26 | neybar | yes |
| 16:29.37 | graphyx | fair enough. |
| 16:29.45 | graphyx | Sorry for going tangential. |
| 16:29.49 | neybar | lol |
| 16:32.03 | sjansen | ~tangent neybar |
| 16:32.13 | sjansen | ~hypotenuse neybar |
| 16:32.20 | sjansen | ~square neybar |
| 16:32.37 | sjansen | Oh, come on, you'd thin at least that on would be a command. |
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| 16:34.23 | goozbach | redbeard1: pon |
| 16:34.59 | sjansen | ~cube neybar |
| 16:35.01 | ibot | ACTION grabs neybar, paints his face white and locks him in a glass box |
| 16:51.42 | *** join/#utah beandog (n=sdibb@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 16:53.01 | [Utah]tristanbob | what is the command to append multiple lines of text to a file? |
| 16:53.55 | neybar | echo "a bunch of stuff" >> some.file? |
| 16:54.03 | neybar | you should probably be a little more specific |
| 16:54.28 | neybar | cat file1 file2 > file3 |
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| 16:54.39 | redbeard1 | did i miss anything? |
| 16:54.44 | neybar | yes |
| 16:54.52 | redbeard1 | shoot. |
| 16:55.05 | goozbach | redbeard1: pong |
| 16:55.14 | redbeard1 | hey goozbach |
| 16:55.27 | goozbach | yes? |
| 16:55.36 | redbeard1 | i saw somebody on the UBD mailing list this morning that i thought might be you, but i don't think it was |
| 16:55.51 | goozbach | nope |
| 16:55.54 | goozbach | not me |
| 16:56.07 | redbeard1 | they said they were in south florida. where are you? |
| 16:56.41 | redbeard1 | somewhere in florida, right? |
| 16:57.19 | goozbach | north florida |
| 16:57.34 | redbeard1 | i was close |
| 16:57.36 | redbeard1 | kinda |
| 16:58.31 | goozbach | umm not really |
| 16:59.01 | goozbach | one has to drive almost 7 hours to be in "south florida" from my house |
| 16:59.15 | goozbach | I'm only 1 hr drive from Georgia |
| 16:59.19 | goozbach | :) |
| 16:59.22 | goozbach | florida is HUGE |
| 17:01.33 | redbeard1 | well, this dude posted what looks like a killer recipe for "creme cake" |
| 17:02.55 | goozbach | I need a pressure cooker |
| 17:03.01 | goozbach | so I can make tres leches |
| 17:06.28 | redbeard1 | i'm wanting to try out sous vide cooking. you ever heard of it? |
| 17:09.02 | goozbach | nope |
| 17:09.43 | redbeard1 | you ever heard of boil-in-a-bag food? |
| 17:09.55 | macnewbold | mmm, like MREs... yummy |
| 17:10.20 | redbeard1 | nah, it was a frozen thing. i used the love the turkey and gravy |
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| 17:10.43 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 17:10.55 | redbeard1 | this is like that, but you cook at a much lower temp, for much longer |
| 17:11.00 | graphyx | so has newsome decided to leave SCO alone or have they been cast off into obscurity already? |
| 17:12.16 | graphyx | The terrible thing is that even though things haven't gone anywhere, their stock price is still 400% of what it was when they started this messed up idea. |
| 17:13.05 | [Utah]tristanbob | neybar: I have 30 lines of text that I want to put in a new file |
| 17:13.27 | [Utah]tristanbob | and do this within a script |
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| 17:16.18 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 17:16.22 | redbeard1 | so, i did a little bit of wardriving last night. nothing big, i didn't try to break into any networks or anything, just looked to see if any were there |
| 17:16.56 | redbeard1 | found 26 networks in the 4 mile stretch from my house to work |
| 17:20.46 | macnewbold | how many were open vs wep vs something stronger? |
| 17:21.14 | macnewbold | do the wardriving tools tell you which ones are broadcast ssid or not, or use mac filtering or not? |
| 17:21.52 | redbeard1 | well, my clie connected to 3 of them before i had a chance to hit cancel. but mostly, i would just tell my clie to connect, and watch for the link light to go solid, and then disconnect |
| 17:22.22 | graphyx | how long has activeperl been a commercial product? |
| 17:22.31 | graphyx | Last time I used it was free. |
| 17:22.39 | graphyx | granted it has been about 4 years. |
| 17:22.42 | redbeard1 | activeperl has been commercial for years... but they've always had a free port. |
| 17:22.55 | goozbach | it's been profitware for quite some time |
| 17:23.43 | graphyx | Is the free version still available, just hidden? |
| 17:23.56 | redbeard1 | graphyx: it's just kind of a pain to find, but it's there |
| 17:24.00 | goozbach | more than likely |
| 17:25.10 | graphyx | yeah, I found it. |
| 17:25.19 | graphyx | google: active perl free download. |
| 17:26.09 | graphyx | Thanks. |
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| 18:01.39 | *** join/#utah migs_ (n=Migs@205.122.50.21) |
| 18:02.43 | ^Migs^ | this is a funny site: http://www.imatternot.com/ |
| 18:02.43 | *** join/#utah mheath[laptop] (n=mheath@c-67-182-231-23.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 18:02.49 | brac | [i matter not - why does your life suck?] |
| 18:04.05 | nick125 | hahaha |
| 18:04.50 | ^Migs^ | "Everyone wants me yet nobody wants me. If that makes since. I am not good at anything much, including being a mom or a wife cause if I was I would still be married. I am in shape and very healthy and have lots of men that want to have sex with me but I can't say that any of them really want ME. That is why my life sucks. I guess I will keep on getting the attention when I can......." |
| 18:07.33 | ^Migs^ | so depressing |
| 18:08.41 | Kuyaedz | ^Migs^: never knew your life was so awful ;) |
| 18:09.31 | ^Migs^ | teenagers don't know what it's like to have a sucky life |
| 18:10.42 | QBFreak | it took 7-8 tries to get it to boot, udev kept timing out |
| 18:10.56 | QBFreak | and the one time it worked it gave some sort of nasty error about a USB device |
| 18:11.09 | QBFreak | I finally unplugged my USB HDD and it seemed to boot ok after that |
| 18:26.57 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (n=von@208.187.198.66) |
| 18:27.39 | vontrapp | how do you set the encoding to utf-8 in an xml declaration? |
| 18:30.10 | *** join/#utah Kuyaedz (n=Kuyaedz@kuyaedz.fttp.xmission.com) |
| 18:30.39 | Kuyaedz | Where is a good bicycle part shop? |
| 18:33.01 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 18:33.54 | vontrapp | wait, it is already encoded such |
| 18:34.35 | vontrapp | so apparently firefox doesn't know how to render (or pick) other-language fonts when rendering svg images |
| 18:41.07 | graphyx | Ok guys I need some help. |
| 18:41.28 | graphyx | what is a single bash command that will open a socket, send a single string and then close it? |
| 18:41.42 | graphyx | without any further input from the user? |
| 18:41.57 | graphyx | open a socket to an external ip. |
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| 18:45.14 | mheath[laptop] | ibot, indeed. ;-P |
| 18:46.04 | Kuyaedz | mheath[laptop]: still fighting with ie7 or did you go with FF? |
| 18:46.25 | mheath[laptop] | Firefox. |
| 18:46.35 | mheath[laptop] | Ie7 is a step in the right direction for Microsoft, but still horrible. |
| 18:47.37 | beandog | I just hope they narrow the release cycle |
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| 18:59.27 | mrpull- | graphyx: are you aware of netcat? |
| 18:59.32 | graphyx | yes. |
| 18:59.40 | graphyx | But it requires extra user input, doesn't it? |
| 18:59.52 | graphyx | I have done the echo "blah" | nc host port |
| 19:00.05 | graphyx | But you have to give it extra input to end the session at the end. |
| 19:00.14 | graphyx | Is there a way to end the session at the end without user intervention? |
| 19:00.34 | [Utah]tristanbob | trying to replace text "comm public" |
| 19:00.48 | mrpull- | i thought there was a non-interactive mode, but I'm not an expert. It sounded like a good start if you weren't already going down that road |
| 19:00.48 | [Utah]tristanbob | with "comm newstring" |
| 19:00.59 | graphyx | mrpull- Thanks.; |
| 19:01.06 | [Utah]tristanbob | with a TAB between the two words |
| 19:01.37 | graphyx | [Utah]tristanbob: s/comm\tpublic/comm\tnewstring/ |
| 19:02.40 | [Utah]tristanbob | graphyx: that works great - thanks (I was very close) |
| 19:02.47 | graphyx | no problem. |
| 19:04.33 | mrpull- | graphyx: the man page says it exits after both sides close the connection... and it says it doesn't do it well |
| 19:04.58 | graphyx | k. |
| 19:05.03 | mrpull- | echo "GET /" | nc 198.60.22.4 80 |
| 19:05.10 | mrpull- | seems to work well though |
| 19:05.15 | mrpull- | what is on the listening side? |
| 19:41.15 | *** join/#utah [Utah]tristanbob (i=tristanb@137.190.3.107) |
| 19:53.24 | mheath[laptop] | Anyone running Windows Vista's Betas? |
| 19:56.28 | ^Migs^ | heck no |
| 19:58.18 | graphyx | mrpull- It is actually a remote desktop server. |
| 19:58.35 | graphyx | Just trying to trip up an IDS for testing purposes. |
| 19:59.44 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@69.146.125.66) |
| 20:00.00 | elg | -lart vontrapp |
| 20:01.51 | harleypig | -urls |
| 20:01.51 | brac | [2006/06/02 12:02:49] <^Migs^> http://www.imatternot.com/ |
| 20:01.51 | brac | [2006/05/28 11:44:30] <xbmodder_lappy> http://www.brickmovie.net/ |
| 20:01.51 | brac | [2006/05/27 22:52:52] <levi_> http://www.osbornmusic.com/jokes.html |
| 20:01.51 | brac | [2006/05/27 15:33:43] <Kuyaedz> http://www.gnome.org/projects/NetworkManager/ |
| 20:10.12 | findlay | ~hi |
| 20:10.13 | ibot | hello, findlay |
| 20:13.07 | harleypig | who owns lardwars.com? |
| 20:17.59 | nick125 | LOL |
| 20:20.00 | harleypig | I'd like the source, or else an account so I can link to it from my blog ... it'd be a nice way of keeping track and having a visual prod. |
| 20:20.38 | findlay | ~hi harleypig |
| 20:20.39 | ibot | Many greetings, harleypig, most strange traveller, to this IRCdom of plenty. |
| 20:21.12 | harleypig | :? |
| 20:22.08 | graphyx | herlo owns lardwars |
| 20:22.39 | harleypig | Yeah, I finally did a whois. |
| 20:22.43 | harleypig | thanks. |
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| 20:25.08 | findlay | what's the easiest way to get the date in perl? |
| 20:25.59 | Jayce^ | time |
| 20:26.16 | elg | it's hard to get a date in perl |
| 20:27.27 | findlay | Jayce^: I'm not familliar with that package yet ... |
| 20:28.40 | graphyx | findlay: try #!/usr/bin/perl -w print "Hey babe, watcha doing friday night? Wanna come to a movie with me?" ; exit(0); |
| 20:29.29 | elg | if a perl script asks a girl out on the internet, did it really happen? |
| 20:30.52 | harleypig | findlay: time returns number of seconds since epoch |
| 20:31.33 | harleypig | 'scalar time' returns 'DD MM, dd CCYY, HH:MM:SS' |
| 20:31.51 | elg | because a number of seconds is obviously not a scalar |
| 20:31.57 | findlay | I just need a date in ISO-8601 format |
| 20:32.15 | harleypig | findlay: perldoc -f time |
| 20:32.33 | elg | it would be best to set upa digital camera to take a picture of the stars and calculate it yourself |
| 20:32.44 | harleypig | @time = time and you can build your string that way. |
| 20:32.57 | harleypig | What is the 8601 format? |
| 20:33.09 | jsmith | Hey, anybody know where I can pick up a USB->Ethernet adapter in the next two hours? |
| 20:33.25 | jsmith | It's a minor emergency... |
| 20:33.33 | harleypig | No, but I can make you an 120v->Ethernet plug for cheap. |
| 20:33.55 | elg | hmm, no. a couple years back you could get them at byu bookstore |
| 20:34.06 | elg | and it worked in linux too |
| 20:34.30 | elg | what about wireless? usb wireless is easier to find |
| 20:34.36 | harleypig | findlay: Is this it? YYYY-MM-DD hh:mm:ss or do you need the time zone as well? |
| 20:34.57 | findlay | harleypig: because 8601 keeps the major numbers first, the way I like it (: |
| 20:35.16 | findlay | just the YYYY-MM-DD |
| 20:35.27 | harleypig | ? I wasn't asking why :] |
| 20:35.31 | jsmith | elg: I'll call them... |
| 20:35.35 | spengy | jsmith: compusa has them. No guarantees as to linux supprort. The other downside is that you have to go to compusa... |
| 20:35.49 | findlay | oh, right, sorry (: |
| 20:36.19 | jsmith | spengy: According to their website, they don't. |
| 20:36.28 | jsmith | spengy: But it may be worth taking a drive |
| 20:36.36 | spengy | jsmith: http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=50261141&pfp=SEARCH |
| 20:36.47 | spengy | oh crap |
| 20:36.52 | spengy | that one is 'delivery only' |
| 20:36.53 | jsmith | Not available in store. |
| 20:37.13 | harleypig | $timestamp = do { @t = ( time )[5,4,3] ; $t[0] += 1900 ; $t[1]++ ; sprintf "%4d-%02d-%02d", @t }; |
| 20:37.26 | harleypig | err ... |
| 20:37.38 | harleypig | $timestamp = do { @t = ( localtime( time ) )[5,4,3] ; $t[0] += 1900 ; $t[1]++ ; sprintf "%4d-%02d-%02d", @t }; |
| 20:37.47 | harleypig | untested |
| 20:37.57 | spengy | jsmith: The salt lake city store has this one http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=284683&pfp=SEARCH |
| 20:38.19 | harleypig | yeah, that works. |
| 20:38.34 | spengy | I normally don't approve of shopping at compusa, but if that is the only place you can find... |
| 20:39.33 | jsmith | spengy: Looks like that one will work... time to drive north |
| 20:39.36 | jsmith | spengy: Thanks! |
| 20:39.48 | harleypig | Of course, to be a little more efficient you'll want |
| 20:39.48 | spengy | jsmith: no problem |
| 20:39.55 | harleypig | $timestamp = do { my @t = ( localtime( time ) )[5,4,3] ; $t[0] += 1900 ; $t[1]++ ; sprintf "%4d-%02d-%02d", @t }; |
| 20:40.16 | harleypig | that way @t isn't hanging around after the next garbage collection. |
| 20:41.19 | findlay | harleypig: how did you know the epoch begins on 1900? |
| 20:44.53 | *** join/#utah Kuyaed1 (n=Kuyaedz@kuyaedz.fttp.xmission.com) |
| 20:46.22 | *** join/#utah levi (n=levi@levi.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 20:48.50 | harleypig | perldoc -f localtime |
| 20:48.50 | findlay | jsmith: does not the Orem store have it? |
| 20:49.10 | jsmith | findlay: Yeah, but I'm closer to the SLC store |
| 20:49.10 | harleypig | findlay: I don't remember how I first found out ... it's second nature now. |
| 20:50.09 | findlay | but I can rely on it being that way across scattered and strance perl installations I guess |
| 20:50.17 | findlay | s/strance/strange |
| 20:50.51 | harleypig | findlay: yeah |
| 20:52.25 | findlay | harleypig: why do you have to increment the month |
| 20:52.44 | harleypig | Months are counted from 0. (0 == Jan) |
| 20:52.47 | findlay | is it zero based or something? If so then why not the day as well? |
| 20:53.13 | harleypig | oesn't make sense to say 0th day of the month. |
| 20:53.30 | harleypig | I've found that to be pretty standard across different programming languages. |
| 20:53.44 | macnewbold | 0 based month numbering? Perl is the only one where I've seen it |
| 20:53.52 | macnewbold | what other languages do it? |
| 20:54.20 | harleypig | C/C++, Fortran, javascript's Date .... |
| 20:54.24 | findlay | but those wily language authors couldn't resist forwarding their zero-based dogma on the month since they are usually known as words (: |
| 20:54.27 | harleypig | dunno about Python or PHP |
| 20:54.49 | findlay | but it is pretty common for the months to be numbered |
| 20:55.35 | harleypig | findlay: It makes date manipulation much easier if you start with 0. |
| 20:56.18 | macnewbold | I've never seen zero-based months in Javascript, C, or C++, and I know PHP doesn't have them. But in those first three I don't know how often I have done much with dates, though I find it hard to believe that I've never done it at all. |
| 20:56.29 | macnewbold | how does it make date manipulation easier to start at 0? |
| 20:56.49 | Kuyaed1 | anyone ever have issues with Jabber cutting in & out randomly? |
| 20:57.24 | vontrapp | ((mo - 1) % 24) + 1 |
| 20:57.30 | vontrapp | as apposed to mo * 12 |
| 20:57.34 | vontrapp | s/24/12 |
| 20:59.35 | harleypig | macnewbold: with 1 based index you have to remember to add or subtract a 1 in weird places in your algorithms. |
| 21:00.19 | harleypig | (BTW, http://www.w3schools.com/jsref/jsref_getMonth.asp for javascript) |
| 21:00.22 | brac | [JavaScript getMonth() Method] |
| 21:01.41 | harleypig | Python doesn't have them either. |
| 21:03.22 | harleypig | java date: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/api/java/sql/Timestamp.html month is 0 based. |
| 21:03.26 | brac | [Timestamp (Java 2 Platform SE v1.4.2)] |
| 21:03.56 | harleypig | This is a clearer link: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/api/java/util/Date.html#getMonth() |
| 21:03.57 | brac | [Date (Java 2 Platform SE v1.4.2)] |
| 21:05.04 | macnewbold | I don't recall ever adding or subtracting ones in weird places in my algorithms... what type of date calculations are you talking about? |
| 21:05.07 | flyboy^ | Hi all. I am a GNU/Linux wireless n00b. I got the card configured (finally) so iwconfig shows it.... now what? |
| 21:05.31 | macnewbold | for most of my date math I convert to timestamps (seconds since epoch), do the math, then convert back to dates |
| 21:06.05 | flyboy^ | I want to find wireless networks - any idea what I use to do that? |
| 21:06.15 | Kuyaedz | flyboy^: what distro are you using? |
| 21:06.21 | macnewbold | ethereal, kismet, and there are others I think |
| 21:06.24 | flyboy^ | Kuyaedz: fc5 |
| 21:06.28 | macnewbold | netstumbler |
| 21:06.34 | harleypig | macnewbold: y'know ... it's been a long time since I asked those questions myself ... I can't answer them satisfactorily right now. |
| 21:06.44 | macnewbold | no worries, it's fine |
| 21:06.48 | Kuyaedz | flyboy^: not too familiar with fc5 but try 'iwlist scan' to view available networks |
| 21:06.50 | harleypig | I do know, however, that 0 based indexing for months is pretty much a standard. |
| 21:06.55 | macnewbold | just makes me glad I don't do date math the hard way or in perl :) |
| 21:07.15 | macnewbold | you learn new stuff every day... |
| 21:07.41 | flyboy^ | Kuyaedz: Ahh, well that at least shows me what is out there - and that it is working. |
| 21:07.52 | Kuyaedz | flyboy^: step in the right direction :) |
| 21:08.02 | flyboy^ | Kuyaedz: Know of any easy to use/configure gui frontends? |
| 21:08.18 | Kuyaedz | flyboy^: for fc5, no. Ubuntu on the other hand.. ;) |
| 21:08.23 | mrpull- | flyboy^: FC5's network applet will do the trick |
| 21:08.30 | Kuyaedz | flyboy^: actually, let me pull a link for you.. one sec. |
| 21:08.50 | flyboy^ | I am very used to a shell, but this whole windows on my laptop thing is new. |
| 21:09.11 | Kuyaedz | flyboy^: this is probably what you're looking for [http://www.gnome.org/projects/NetworkManager/] |
| 21:09.13 | harleypig | macnewbold: or C/C++/Assembly/COBOL/Fortran/Java/Javascript ... :> |
| 21:09.37 | macnewbold | yep :) |
| 21:09.43 | harleypig | I think it has to do with the fact that arrays are 0 indexed. |
| 21:09.53 | mrpull- | Kuyaedz: that looks like a nice app. Good link! |
| 21:10.13 | flyboy^ | Now, if I can just figure out how to start the dang thing. |
| 21:10.27 | Kuyaedz | mrpull: its now built-into Ubuntu 6.06. Its nice |
| 21:10.30 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@208.64.90.18.utahbroadband.com) |
| 21:10.52 | mrpull- | flyboy^: in FC5 try System | Administration | Network (from memory) |
| 21:11.47 | Kuyaedz | does FC5 use /etc/networking/interfaces for config? |
| 21:12.44 | flyboy^ | Humm. I just want it to show me all available wireless networks, and allow me to connect to one. Doesn't seem like it should be this hard, so I must be missing something. |
| 21:12.51 | harleypig | macnewbold: http://blogs.msdn.com/ericgu/archive/2004/03/16/90724.aspx Possible explanation |
| 21:13.01 | harleypig | I mean, if it's on the web it *must* be true, right? :> |
| 21:13.54 | Kuyaedz | flyboy^: that network manager link should be what you're looking for. Otherwise its all kind of manual |
| 21:17.50 | flyboy^ | Kuyaedz: My issue is trying to figure out how to get the applet started. |
| 21:18.07 | *** join/#utah RyanE (n=ryan@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 21:18.45 | flyboy^ | nevermind. |
| 21:19.05 | flyboy^ | It just isn't obvious what to do, you have to give it the right number of clicks with the right mouse button. :) |
| 21:21.23 | ^Migs^ | does it go <ul><li><ul></ul></li></ul> or <ul><li></li><ul></ul></ul>? |
| 21:27.00 | harleypig | ^Migs^: ul li li li ul |
| 21:27.22 | ^Migs^ | eh? |
| 21:27.30 | ^Migs^ | no, I want to nest a ul within a ul |
| 21:31.08 | *** join/#utah RyanE_ (n=ryan@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 21:33.53 | vontrapp | ^Migs^: i do believe li is the only acceptable child node of ul, so in the li |
| 21:33.58 | harleypig | ^Migs^: oh. <ul><li> <ul><li></li></ul> </li> </ul> |
| 21:34.03 | ^Migs^ | -k- |
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| 22:00.53 | Kuyaedz | Anyone have issues with Jabber connections? (those that use it) |
| 22:00.59 | elg | to who? |
| 22:01.53 | Kuyaedz | occasionally my Jabber via gmail account drops connection while my other protocols are fine. |
| 22:02.12 | Kuyaedz | just wondering if anyone else had similar issues |
| 22:02.37 | elg | my jabber account tends to disconnect when i lose connectivity |
| 22:03.06 | elg | my aim account takes much longer. but the aim one never really comes back until it finally disconnects and reconnects |
| 22:03.28 | elg | so i like the jabber behavior better |
| 22:03.59 | Kuyaedz | Yeah, so do I. I just wondered about that random disconnect. Maybe its the talk.google.com server I'm connected to |
| 22:05.05 | elg | take it as an omen that google has overextended itself and will soon come crashing down in a self-inflicted ddos from being too popular and doing too much. that'd be the hip theory |
| 22:06.13 | Kuyaedz | Shhhh. Google is listening |
| 22:10.48 | macnewbold | yeah, you'll hurt his feelings |
| 22:12.04 | *** join/#utah synic (n=squish@pdpc/supporter/student/synic) |
| 22:15.01 | spengy | Google hears all and knows all |
| 22:15.33 | findlay | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:16.19 | findlay | whatever google is benign compared to what the FBI wants |
| 22:16.29 | findlay | the FBI can eat crap for all I care |
| 22:19.02 | spengy | NSA, probably |
| 22:19.32 | findlay | yeah |
| 22:20.02 | spengy | god bless america... |
| 22:23.26 | findlay | each generation in turn has to stand up for what it believes in and I think my generation will have to fight for our human rights and fight against the blind corruption of government that condones egregious crapriciousness |
| 22:29.17 | spengy | I find it scary that the average citizen doesn't care that the government is spying on its citizens. |
| 22:30.12 | findlay | you just have to be able to wake the sleeping giant, then anything is possible |
| 22:32.30 | spengy | I probably wont be surprised when they start doing body cavity searches at the airport... |
| 22:32.56 | macnewbold | you haven't flown anywhere lately, I guess... |
| 22:33.17 | spengy | I know sometimes people get strip searched |
| 22:35.09 | *** join/#utah jsmith (n=jsmith@smithfam.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 22:35.33 | spengy | jsmith: get your ethernet adapter? |
| 22:36.21 | jsmith | spengy: They're holding it for me -- somehow I got stuck watching the kids while my wife takes a nap :-( |
| 22:36.38 | jsmith | spengy: Let's just say instead of being Friday, it's been Monday number 5 |
| 22:37.32 | spengy | jsmith: Ouch, I'm sorry. |
| 22:38.02 | bonez39 | has anyone else encountered that earthlink spam blocker for email? |
| 22:38.36 | bonez39 | did you all read about zfone? to encrypt VOIP calls? |
| 22:40.31 | spengy | Saw it briefly on slashdot |
| 22:41.44 | jsmith | bonez39: Yeah, I know about zfone... |
| 22:42.35 | spengy | Never really pay much attention to VOIP because I have nobody to talk to anyway ;) |
| 22:43.11 | bonez39 | jsmith, with your * experience....do you think it will eventually become part of * and other VOIP solutions? |
| 22:43.35 | bonez39 | spengy, I run VOIP using vonage...in office here and at home...it's served me well over a year now |
| 22:43.55 | jsmith | bonez39: Quite possible... the way it's currently deployed, it currently only makes sense if you're running a soft-phone on your PC. |
| 22:44.14 | jsmith | bonez39: It all depends on the hardware vendors and if/how they choose to implement it. |
| 22:44.34 | spengy | bonez39: Awesome. I am a fan of the idea of VOIP, because I hate phone companys. I have just never messed with it. |
| 22:44.38 | bonez39 | soft-phone, means using a USB headset and mic, to talk over the net through PC, instead of using a standard phone? |
| 22:45.30 | bonez39 | spengy, I highly recommend it..vonage is well established, and I haven't acquired a SIP box yet, to fiddle with Asterisk....vonage doesn't allow interaction with asterisk...have to shop around .. |
| 22:47.18 | spengy | bonez39: Do you have to run the 'official' vonage router? I have a friend whose family is using it, and I seem to remember they had to use a different router... |
| 22:48.13 | macnewbold | some VOIP providers let you bring your own hardware, others insist on selling you one |
| 22:48.54 | jsmith | bonez39: Yes, soft-phone is a program running on your PC |
| 22:52.51 | macnewbold | often you'll have to put in the voip router, and connect your own router behind it |
| 22:53.08 | macnewbold | most voip routers I've read about don't seem to be full replacements, especially if you want wireless |
| 22:54.56 | spengy | Hmmm.. According to the main page of wikipedia, on this day in 1774 the Quartering Act was reenacted ;) |
| 22:55.30 | spengy | Maybe they mean the second quartering act |
| 22:56.49 | *** join/#utah spr (n=spr@c-67-169-251-207.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 23:09.34 | elg | spengy: is that the one where they switched from quarters to halves in basketball? |
| 23:10.50 | findlay | elg: no I think it has to do with the proliferation of state quarters |
| 23:12.48 | spengy | haha |
| 23:13.51 | macnewbold | no, no, no, it's a law about butchering animals - hind quarters, etc. |
| 23:14.10 | bonez39 | spengy, as for running the official router...I think you have to run their equipment.....they aren't 'open' yet |
| 23:14.24 | macnewbold | spr: if mirror.xm is down, go tell them about it in #xmlounge on ircd.xmission.com, and they'll fix it |
| 23:14.30 | bonez39 | macnewbold, that's it with vonage..they want you to use their equipment... |
| 23:15.13 | bonez39 | spr, xmissions mirror for apt-get? |
| 23:16.15 | TimRiker | bonez39: you probably mean mirror of debian. |
| 23:16.51 | bonez39 | TimRiker, yeah, that's what I was thinking.... |
| 23:17.07 | bonez39 | TimRiker, what then is a mirrors host? |
| 23:17.28 | TimRiker | xmission mirrors lots of things. |
| 23:17.53 | TimRiker | see http://mirrors.xmission.com/ |
| 23:23.09 | spengy | Does anyone here have a Utopia fiber connection? |
| 23:24.36 | spengy | If so, I'm jealous. 15 Mbps up AND down.... |
| 23:26.53 | spengy | or so I hear |
| 23:26.53 | spr | yeah, debian |
| 23:42.27 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@cobra.mcnabbs.org) |
| 23:42.51 | emcnabb | ~onjoin emcnabb |
| 23:42.51 | ibot | onjoin for emcnabb set by sjansen on Thu Jun 1 06:51:06 2006: It seems they'll let all manner of riff raff into #utah these days. |
| 23:43.00 | *** join/#utah lars-ut (n=lars-ut@70.103.228.158) |
| 23:43.04 | emcnabb | ~onjoin - emcnabb |
| 23:43.04 | ibot | emcnabb: ok |
| 23:43.11 | emcnabb | ~onjoin sjansen |
| 23:43.47 | emcnabb | ~onjoin sjansen ibot, will you marry me? |
| 23:43.47 | ibot | ok, emcnabb |
| 23:43.59 | emcnabb | ~onjoin sjansen |
| 23:43.59 | ibot | onjoin for sjansen set by emcnabb on Fri Jun 2 17:43:47 2006: ibot, will you marry me? |
| 23:45.43 | macnewbold | ~onjoin lars-ut |
| 23:45.43 | ibot | onjoin for lars-ut set by lars-ut-away on Tue Feb 7 07:26:02 2006: Still waiting for that next release from SoftwareFor.org... |
| 23:52.18 | lars-ut | macnewbold: Firefox just released 1.5.0.4 - time to get packages updated... need a hackathon - maybe next Saturday |
| 23:53.01 | lars-ut | ~onjoin emcnabb |
| 23:53.01 | ibot | onjoin for emcnabb set by sjansen on Thu Jun 1 06:51:06 2006: It seems they'll let all manner of riff raff into #utah these days. |
| 23:53.06 | lars-ut | :) |
| 23:53.28 | lars-ut | ~seen jsmith |
| 23:53.40 | ibot | jsmith <n=jsmith@smithfam.dsl.xmission.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #utah, 1h 4m 46s ago, saying: 'bonez39: Yes, soft-phone is a program running on your PC'. |
| 23:53.51 | lars-ut | -urls 4 |
| 23:53.51 | brac | [2006/06/02 17:17:56] <TimRiker> http://mirrors.xmission.com/ |
| 23:53.51 | brac | [2006/06/02 15:12:55] <harleypig> http://blogs.msdn.com/ericgu/archive/2004/03/16/90724.aspx |
| 23:53.51 | brac | [2006/06/02 15:03:57] <harleypig> http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/api/java/util/Date.html#getMonth() |
| 23:53.51 | brac | [2006/06/02 15:03:25] <harleypig> http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/api/java/sql/Timestamp.html |
| 23:55.15 | findlay | http://test.example.com <-- awesome |
| 23:55.22 | findlay | -urls 1 |
| 23:55.39 | brac | [2006/06/02 17:17:56] <TimRiker> http://mirrors.xmission.com/ |
| 23:59.02 | findlay | how can google overextend themselves with hundreds of millions in the bank? |
