| 00:20.05 | *** join/#utah levi_ (n=levi@levi.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 00:20.08 | harleypig | anynone know of a way to download gedcom files from familysearch? I don't want to redo what's already been done for my family. |
| 00:21.37 | graphyx | Well to be blunt, what makes you think what they have is correct? |
| 00:22.02 | graphyx | I suppose that you could go through everything that they have and add notes to validate what they put together and only then accept it to be correct. |
| 00:22.20 | graphyx | but no I don't know how to download the gedcom. |
| 00:22.28 | graphyx | You almost have to download it one person at a time. |
| 00:22.40 | graphyx | That is what I had found previously. |
| 00:23.07 | harleypig | graphyx: On the one side we have the John Young Family Organization. I happen to know they have an interest in keeping things correct, and they have retired people who do nothing but work on that tree. |
| 00:23.22 | graphyx | Cool. |
| 00:23.38 | harleypig | On the other we have the Daughters of the South who have the same desires. |
| 00:23.41 | graphyx | If they have sources with the notes then that is more conforting. |
| 00:23.48 | graphyx | s/conforting/comforting/ |
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| 00:24.11 | harleypig | *shrug* I just want to get started, but I don't want to have redo work that already has been done and accepted. |
| 00:24.29 | mheath[laptop] | Trying to enjoy the day off work |
| 00:24.49 | mheath[laptop] | I was at camp williams all weekened, I graduated yesterday....let me enjoy one freakin day off. |
| 00:25.00 | harleypig | My mom did quite a lot of work for her family, and my nana on my dad's side was active in The John Young organization for 40 years or more. |
| 00:25.00 | graphyx | nope |
| 00:25.05 | mheath[laptop] | My manager just called and wanted me to work. She tried to lay on the guilt..... |
| 00:25.15 | graphyx | Cool. |
| 00:25.57 | mheath[laptop] | Sorry. I'm grduated from highschool. Yesterday was the end of 12 years of hard work. Let me enjoy one stinkin day off before I come and work 24/7 for you. |
| 00:26.08 | mheath[laptop] | s/I'm/I/g |
| 00:26.45 | graphyx | What else did you think you graduated from high school for? |
| 00:27.28 | graphyx | j/k |
| 00:27.42 | mheath[laptop] | "Fine. I'll just work during a graduation rush, with no expo!" |
| 00:27.48 | mheath[laptop] | That IS probably what she'll do |
| 00:27.57 | mheath[laptop] | Beacuse she's incapable of solving any problems. |
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| 00:30.21 | graphyx | so you refused to work to go play WoW. Sounds like a nice trade. |
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| 00:31.47 | graphyx | How do you defrag a linux partition? |
| 00:31.58 | graphyx | I didn't think linux would let the stuff get too fragmented. |
| 00:32.05 | findlay | linux FS's are self defragmenting |
| 00:32.10 | elg | harleypig: i don't know about familysearch, but if you can't figure it out there you can go to your local FHC |
| 00:32.17 | elg | and get it there |
| 00:32.55 | findlay | I suppose. Otherwise, I guess you could just copy it to a new partition |
| 00:32.55 | graphyx | findlay: Then why do you wonder how fragmented the partition is? |
| 00:33.58 | findlay | graphyx: I didn't say that linux filesystems are nonfragmentable, just that they tend to keep the fragmentation down |
| 00:34.49 | graphyx | findlay: Fair enough. |
| 00:44.40 | ScytheBlade1 | They do it rather well, too |
| 00:44.50 | ScytheBlade1 | Well enough that there really aren't any defrag programs for linux |
| 00:45.10 | ScytheBlade1 | And that should say something |
| 01:02.23 | vontrapp | findlay: did you get my message earlier? |
| 01:02.46 | *** join/#utah nick125_ (n=nick@atarack/staff/nick125) |
| 01:04.13 | findlay | vontrapp: don't think so |
| 01:04.17 | levi_ | I'd be fine refusing to go to work to play a computer game, at least until my flex time ran out. |
| 01:04.27 | vontrapp | i said you could play for my wedding |
| 01:04.37 | findlay | vontrapp: when? |
| 01:04.39 | levi_ | Then I might have some trouble. |
| 01:04.48 | vontrapp | august 16, in newport beachc |
| 01:04.57 | nick125_ | I'm bored |
| 01:05.10 | vontrapp | the reception is actually the 19th |
| 01:05.24 | levi_ | nick125_: And you think we should care that you're bored? |
| 01:05.26 | vontrapp | but we will have another open house here later on |
| 01:05.36 | levi_ | No one wants to hear from a bored person. |
| 01:05.39 | nick125_ | levi_: no, I was just saying it to say something..lol |
| 01:05.47 | nick125_ | so, hows everyone tonight? |
| 01:06.10 | levi_ | I'm full, now. |
| 01:06.19 | levi_ | And happy that I didn't have to cook dinner. :) |
| 01:08.04 | findlay | vontrapp: are you not going to have a Utah event then? |
| 01:08.35 | vontrapp | we are, later on, probably end of august - beginning of sept |
| 01:08.44 | vontrapp | after school gets going so people are around and settled |
| 01:09.32 | findlay | vontrapp: do you have a specific date yet? |
| 01:10.37 | vontrapp | not for the utah one |
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| 01:23.30 | nick125 | hmm |
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| 03:08.34 | mheath[laptop] | ooh, I apparently got Employee of the Month (for the kitchen staff) at work. |
| 03:17.54 | mheath[laptop] | Doesn't mean much, and is pretty much automatic, but it does mean I get $50 :) |
| 03:23.21 | QBFreak | ooo |
| 03:23.32 | QBFreak | can I have a free sample? :) |
| 03:29.34 | mheath[laptop] | Hmmm.... |
| 03:30.14 | mheath[laptop] | I was playing with the idea of using the Software Suspend capabilities of Linux to create a rapid boot feature for my computer |
| 03:30.27 | mheath[laptop] | instant on, that type of thing... |
| 03:30.52 | nick125 | that would be cool.. |
| 03:31.02 | nick125 | however, you would still have to go though BIOS..hmm |
| 03:31.17 | mheath[laptop] | Thats easy enough to do for my own machine. Just create a memory dump of where I want to get to... |
| 03:32.25 | mheath[laptop] | However, if I was to distribute this idea....what would be a good idea to generate a memory image automatically? |
| 03:33.12 | nick125 | I would think it would be a little more complex then an image though |
| 03:33.40 | mheath[laptop] | Thats what suspend does. You create an image of RAM, and it loads that into RAM when you boot. |
| 03:34.09 | nick125 | I would bet there would be something to actually read the ram image and put that into RAM.. |
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| 03:34.46 | mheath[laptop] | ....Of course. |
| 03:35.17 | nick125 | hmm |
| 03:36.25 | nick125 | I think it would be cool to have a "reduced state", where, the box, it will still be network connected, etc, but, basically, all user interaction would be shut off.. |
| 03:36.41 | nick125 | it would also try to power down the CPU to just the minimal, etc |
| 03:36.47 | nick125 | however, the apps would still be running |
| 03:38.15 | QBFreak | always handy to leave the network apps running |
| 03:38.48 | nick125 | so, you could keep your irssi window open, and such, but, save on battery |
| 03:39.13 | nick125 | of course, with IRC, theres always that irc<->proxy<->custom client idea we had a while back |
| 03:39.42 | nick125 | that works too.. |
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| 03:40.07 | Lone_Wanderer | ~seen sjansen |
| 03:40.12 | ibot | sjansen <n=sjansen@ip-207-145-80-2.nyc.megapath.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #utah, 8h 23m 57s ago, saying: 'ibot: gruff is http://nubyonrails.com/pages/gruff'. |
| 03:40.29 | Lone_Wanderer | Meh. Okay. Anyone else know anything about guru labs? |
| 03:40.50 | nick125 | basically, this is how it would work (the proxy): |
| 03:41.24 | nick125 | <irc server> - [irc protocol] - < ipoxy irc proxy > - [ xml/rpc ] - < ipoxy enabled client > |
| 03:41.55 | QBFreak | I thought about doing something like that for a mud |
| 03:42.07 | QBFreak | a proxy server that let you log multiple clients into one connection |
| 03:42.15 | QBFreak | and could hold it without any clients connected |
| 03:42.23 | QBFreak | dump scrollback on connect etc |
| 03:42.27 | nick125 | that's the idea! |
| 03:42.30 | QBFreak | and then I found screen and puttty :) |
| 03:42.36 | QBFreak | and a good linux client |
| 03:43.13 | nick125 | lol |
| 03:43.39 | QBFreak | I don't know what in the heck is wrong with this laptop, ahg |
| 03:43.54 | QBFreak | I'm running out of things to try |
| 03:44.16 | QBFreak | co-worker's husband tried to install Office XP on Windows 98 on a 266 |
| 03:44.34 | QBFreak | and now nothing happens once you get past the login screen |
| 03:44.51 | levi_ | QBFreak: Seen sparkfun.com? |
| 03:45.37 | nick125 | QBFreak: lol |
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| 03:45.48 | QBFreak | levi_: no I havn't |
| 03:46.41 | QBFreak | oooo |
| 03:46.57 | levi_ | Thought you'd like that. |
| 03:47.46 | QBFreak | the breakout boards, that is so awesome |
| 03:47.58 | QBFreak | I have a friend who had to solder leads onto a surface mount CF slot |
| 03:48.11 | QBFreak | took him a couple of days |
| 03:49.23 | Lone_Wanderer | sparkfun? |
| 03:49.39 | Lone_Wanderer | frosting printer! :D |
| 03:49.48 | QBFreak | yeah, that was cool too |
| 03:50.01 | Lone_Wanderer | Is it good enough to do cakes with? |
| 03:50.28 | QBFreak | Lone_Wanderer's custom cakes, just send a PNG |
| 03:50.53 | Lone_Wanderer | I was thinking about putting cake decorators out of work, actually. |
| 03:51.06 | Lone_Wanderer | Automate the process - better quality, more consistent, and cheaper. |
| 03:51.24 | Lone_Wanderer | Unfortunately, I'm too lazy and too enamored with WoW to ever actually make such a machine. |
| 03:51.31 | QBFreak | I need some of these: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=506 |
| 03:51.33 | brac | [Spark Fun Electronics] |
| 04:03.31 | Lone_Wanderer | So... guru labs, anyone? |
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| 04:03.55 | Lone_Wanderer | :D |
| 04:04.08 | Lone_Wanderer | hatchmt: any relation to Orinn Hatch? |
| 04:04.38 | hatchmt | Not really... I researched it once, and it turns out our only common ancenster died in something like 1690. |
| 04:04.47 | Lone_Wanderer | k |
| 04:04.49 | hatchmt | ancestar |
| 04:04.52 | hatchmt | I can't spell |
| 04:04.54 | Lone_Wanderer | ancestor? |
| 04:05.02 | hatchmt | relative. :) |
| 04:05.17 | QBFreak | ancient relative |
| 04:05.18 | Lone_Wanderer | I'm so used to Teh Intarweb that I hardly notice misspellings any more. It's tragic. |
| 04:05.25 | QBFreak | heh |
| 04:05.33 | hatchmt | I usually notice, but it's been a long day. :) |
| 04:05.51 | Lone_Wanderer | What'd be cool is an incoming spellchecker. If a word about to go onto your screen is misspelled, it fixes it automatically. |
| 04:11.17 | Lone_Wanderer | Is the traveling salesman problem known to be NP-hard, or am I making that up? |
| 04:20.39 | Lone_Wanderer | Yep. |
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| 04:28.40 | findlay | does anybody here understand Conway chains? |
| 04:29.39 | Lone_Wanderer | Conway chained arrow notation/ |
| 04:29.40 | Lone_Wanderer | ? |
| 04:29.47 | findlay | yes |
| 04:30.01 | Lone_Wanderer | Nope. |
| 04:30.42 | Lone_Wanderer | Small way of writing large numbers, right? |
| 04:31.14 | findlay | very succinct notation for very large numbers |
| 04:31.19 | Lone_Wanderer | cool |
| 04:32.26 | findlay | more potent than logically extending the concept of plain binary combinatorial operators, but I don't completely understand how yet |
| 04:32.38 | Lone_Wanderer | Have you read the wikipedia article? |
| 04:32.49 | findlay | I'm looking at it right now |
| 04:32.52 | Lone_Wanderer | k |
| 04:33.17 | findlay | wikipedia is usually an awesome place to go with math questions |
| 04:33.33 | Lone_Wanderer | yeah |
| 04:33.40 | findlay | imagine what insanely steep functions you can create with those things |
| 04:33.56 | findlay | x!, whatever |
| 04:34.09 | QBFreak | ~lart win98 |
| 04:34.21 | Lone_Wanderer | What's VAXen? |
| 04:34.25 | findlay | x^x, is steeper, and x^x...^x(n) |
| 04:34.31 | QBFreak | the plural of VAX |
| 04:34.36 | Lone_Wanderer | Ohh, right. |
| 04:34.41 | QBFreak | generally a small herd of them |
| 04:34.43 | Lone_Wanderer | I thought maybe it was an explosive. |
| 04:35.13 | QBFreak | effin windows |
| 04:35.29 | findlay | but imagine f(x) = lim(n->\infty) x->x...->x(n) |
| 04:35.31 | QBFreak | I think its just plain gone |
| 04:36.15 | QBFreak | I have disabled everything that starts up, disabled nearly every device, ran the system file checker, skipped loading all the VXDs |
| 04:36.26 | QBFreak | and it still just sits there at the wallpaper after the login screen |
| 04:36.37 | findlay | that function is so steep it might as well be the y-axis |
| 04:36.43 | QBFreak | explorer shows up in the task list but is nowhere to be found |
| 04:36.51 | QBFreak | killing it acomplishes nothing |
| 04:37.00 | Lone_Wanderer | Bedtime. Night all. |
| 04:37.04 | QBFreak | later Lone_Wanderer |
| 04:43.44 | findlay | whenever I get a little into mathematics I feel acutely how very weak my brain is |
| 04:45.04 | findlay | wikipedia r0x0rz |
| 05:45.25 | levi | Gah, baby wants to eat and eat and eat. |
| 05:46.11 | levi | findlay: The denotational semantics book I'm reading is making my brain hurt. |
| 05:46.17 | levi | findlay: It's all mathy. |
| 05:48.30 | mheath[laptop] | I just found a big problem with Google Calendars |
| 05:49.04 | mheath[laptop] | Say I make a practical joke event and invite you to it. Something rude, mean, or obnoxious. |
| 05:49.21 | mheath[laptop] | It instantly shows up on your calendar, which may be public. It has a question mark by it, but it instantly shows up |
| 05:55.02 | QBFreak | calendar spam! |
| 05:56.33 | QBFreak | this one the sender offers to kill themselves and eat their dog if their prices aren't the best |
| 05:57.40 | mheath[laptop] | I can also invite people to thinks in the past. |
| 06:01.34 | mheath[laptop] | *things |
| 06:01.43 | mheath[laptop] | 1/1/1900 is as early as it goes, though |
| 06:05.01 | findlay | levi: is it typeset in TeX? |
| 06:12.25 | levi | findlay: No, it war originally typeset with troff. |
| 06:12.48 | findlay | sweet (: |
| 06:13.02 | findlay | must be really good then |
| 06:13.32 | levi | It probably predates the wide use of TeX. |
| 06:14.03 | levi | It was written in '82 and '83, published in '86. |
| 06:14.22 | findlay | after sjansen's presentation on ConText, I've been thinking that TeX either needs to be rethought or scrapped |
| 06:14.52 | levi | Perhaps. But it is remarkably stable, and is good at what it does. |
| 06:15.14 | levi | He took 10 years to write it, after all. |
| 06:16.15 | findlay | because, even I, in my narcissistic, most dogged idealism, feel some quaver of trepidation at TeX, not that that is any real metric! |
| 06:16.58 | findlay | levi: even so, I say make a new system based on what we've learned in the past 25 years |
| 06:19.21 | levi | I'm sure it would be welcomed, but it would be a large undertaking, and would require a lot of specialized knowledge. |
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| 06:20.52 | findlay | levi: do you think typesetting is really so niche as that? |
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| 06:22.32 | levi | findlay: Typesetting of the quality TeX produces, yes. For something that's similar to the 'typesetting' of an html page or a Word document, probably not. |
| 06:23.44 | findlay | well, the output of Knuth always seems to be high quality, well-balanced work of art |
| 06:24.10 | levi | There's also Lout. Have you looked at it? |
| 06:24.17 | findlay | never heard of it |
| 06:24.28 | findlay | TeX seems so cryptic, that's all |
| 06:24.38 | levi | Lout is less cryptic. |
| 06:24.48 | findlay | and perhaps it's hard to create custom styles with |
| 06:25.38 | levi | I dunno. |
| 06:25.44 | findlay | those are my main points against TeX. Enough to convince me that what it does could be done better despite it's other, numerous most excellent aspects |
| 06:25.58 | levi | There's always cl-typesetting. |
| 06:26.22 | findlay | including related things like METAFONT and METAPOST |
| 06:27.04 | findlay | Knuth didn't just write a typesetter, it seems he created an entire typesetting system |
| 06:27.16 | levi | Yeah. |
| 06:27.53 | findlay | complete with a font generator and vector graphics |
| 06:27.59 | levi | Apparently TeX is still the only tool powerful enough to tackle serious mathematics journals. |
| 06:28.34 | findlay | yes. You should see my issue of Annals of Mathematics |
| 06:29.14 | findlay | there's no way word/writer could mimick it without severe effort |
| 06:31.13 | levi | Apparently someone's working on a document formatting language called Nonpareil. |
| 06:33.09 | findlay | sweet, there's an ebuild for it |
| 06:33.27 | findlay | for cl-typesetting, I mean |
| 06:33.41 | levi | Ah, cool. |
| 06:33.54 | levi | I don't know how usable it will be for you without knowing Lisp. |
| 06:33.58 | findlay | for a lot of cl-* utilities, it looks like |
| 06:35.15 | levi | Yeah. |
| 06:35.25 | findlay | levi: lisp is one of those intellectual exercizes I would be delighted to have the pleasure of learning (: |
| 06:35.55 | findlay | I just never had a specific motivation |
| 06:36.31 | findlay | $ ls -l /usr/portage/dev-lisp/ | wc 212 1902 13826 |
| 06:36.40 | findlay | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:36.49 | findlay | plenty of ebuilds, (: |
| 06:37.15 | levi | Nonpareil is apparently a statically-typed, object oriented pure-functional language. |
| 06:37.29 | levi | Indeed, there's lots of CL stuff. |
| 06:37.47 | levi | If you're serious, I recommend emacs, slime, and sbcl for Linux development. |
| 06:38.16 | levi | And to get up to speed, google for Practical Common Lisp. |
| 06:41.27 | findlay | breaking out of the C -> C++ -> Java -> C# mentality was an important rite of passage I think |
| 06:41.48 | findlay | the more I learn about lisp, the more I'm impressed by it |
| 06:42.13 | levi | It's very cool. |
| 06:42.22 | levi | It does have a bit of a learning curve, though. |
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| 06:44.34 | findlay | but right now I'm also all sorts of excited over combinatorics |
| 06:44.56 | levi | What about combinatorics? |
| 06:47.43 | findlay | a very practical and also fascinating mathematical study |
| 06:48.11 | findlay | oh, I thought you said, "What is combinatorics?" (: |
| 06:48.27 | levi | I'm somewhat familiar with what it is from my early CS courses. |
| 06:49.06 | findlay | mainly how it may relate to tetration, etc. and Conway chains |
| 06:49.53 | levi | So, really big numbers. |
| 06:50.30 | findlay | mathematicians have a bewildering number of definitions |
| 06:50.34 | levi | I always thought the ordering/counting of stuff was more interesting. |
| 06:50.35 | findlay | yes |
| 06:51.09 | levi | Once numbers get past a certain size, it seems kind of futile to try to think about them. |
| 06:51.31 | findlay | actually, not interest in big numbers themselves, but what can be extended/extrapolated from our concept of simple addition |
| 06:52.12 | findlay | Conway chains are very cleverly devised in this regard |
| 06:52.50 | levi | BTW, as far as cool cl-* utilities go, cl-sql is way cool. |
| 06:53.58 | findlay | is there a less vulgar/less practical but more correct version of lisp out there |
| 06:55.49 | levi | Scheme |
| 06:56.10 | levi | For some definitions of 'less practical' and 'more correct'. |
| 06:56.17 | levi | Debate continues on those fronts. :) |
| 06:57.14 | levi | Of course, if you want to do anything with Scheme that requires more than minimal IO, you need to decide /which/ Scheme you want to use. |
| 06:57.28 | levi | If you want to do unix scripting, scsh is the way to go. |
| 06:57.38 | levi | I hear gauche is another good choice. |
| 06:57.47 | levi | If you need high performance, Chicken and Gambit are good. |
| 06:58.10 | levi | If you have a finished program that does numerical stuff that needs to run fast, you can throw it at Stalin. |
| 06:58.41 | levi | If you want a highly 'correct' Scheme, scheme48 has a lot of cool features and a clean implementation. |
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| 06:58.54 | levi | There are schemes that run on the JVM and the CLR. |
| 06:59.11 | levi | There's PLT Scheme, which is probably the most widely used and has a handy built-in IDE. |
| 06:59.21 | levi | (in the form of Dr Scheme) |
| 06:59.40 | findlay | a plain, immaculate implementation is I think what I'm looking for |
| 06:59.45 | levi | PLT Scheme probably has the most active research being done on it. |
| 06:59.56 | levi | findlay: What do you mean by plain and immaculate, though? |
| 07:00.06 | levi | I think Scheme48 is probably a good choice for you. |
| 07:00.10 | findlay | it's hard to say, isn't it? |
| 07:00.31 | levi | You can use Slime48 with it, which is helpful for interactive programming. |
| 07:00.42 | levi | Plus it's a very 'correct' implementation. |
| 07:01.12 | levi | And it's built on a virtual machine architecture that's implemented in a Scheme-ish dialect called Pre-Scheme. |
| 07:01.52 | levi | Pre-Scheme lacks a lot of Scheme's features, but compiles to efficient C code. |
| 07:02.01 | levi | And does have nifty stuff like macros. |
| 07:02.19 | levi | Plus, the virtual machine source code is fairly easy to understand. |
| 07:02.22 | findlay | C code? |
| 07:02.28 | levi | Yes. |
| 07:02.35 | findlay | the VM doesn't compile to machine language? |
| 07:02.53 | levi | It does when you compile the C code. |
| 07:03.02 | levi | It's more easily portable this way. |
| 07:03.28 | levi | And takes advantage of the optimizers available in C compilers, etc. |
| 07:03.56 | findlay | after all, what is a machine and it's 'language' after all but vulgar practicality (: |
| 07:05.09 | findlay | levi: looks like you've learned a lot about this. (: |
| 07:05.40 | levi | Yes. |
| 07:05.58 | levi | I spent several weeks reading the Scheme48 source code to see how it worked. |
| 07:06.20 | levi | And some large amount of time generally looking around at the different scheme implementations. |
| 07:06.34 | levi | And lots of time reading about macros, closures, continuations, etc. |
| 07:06.55 | levi | And not an insignificant amount of time writing simple Scheme programs. |
| 07:07.11 | findlay | I don't have enough time to learn everything I want to |
| 07:07.29 | levi | Nor do I! |
| 07:08.32 | levi | I end up just lightly skimming so many things that deserve a much more thorough treatment. |
| 07:08.55 | findlay | the platform that is the general purpose computing device has so much to lend to the study of foundations of mathematics in logic through the expressiveness of wonderfully exact languages |
| 07:09.26 | levi | You might enjoy learning Haskell, too. |
| 07:10.02 | levi | It's even more mathy than Scheme, and is written in a manner much more similar to mathematical notation. |
| 07:10.11 | findlay | levi: you might enjoy functional analysis. (: |
| 07:12.08 | levi | Quite possibly, but math stuff is way over my head, and I haven't found a workable course of self-study to get to the point where I'd be able to make sense of any treatment of something like functional analysis. |
| 07:13.02 | levi | A lot of CS stuff like type theory and denotational/axiomatic semantics is over my head, too. |
| 07:13.34 | levi | Not to mention the numerical stuff I'm running up against in my robotics research. |
| 07:13.48 | levi | I need to brush up on my linear algebra. |
| 07:14.01 | levi | And probably statistics, too. |
| 07:14.11 | findlay | learning mathematics is really about learning concepts rather than doing computations |
| 07:15.09 | levi | Well, my problem is not so much learning concepts as it is internalizing math notation and the formality of how things are described. |
| 07:16.12 | levi | Currently, I go very slowly and translate all the math notation to English in my head, at which point things start to get confusing. |
| 07:17.02 | levi | Hmm, installing cl-sql upgraded my mysql install. I wonder if the new version will be any faster. |
| 07:17.34 | findlay | in the end mathematics is just explaning concepts to other mathematicians in terms they understand |
| 07:17.59 | levi | Right, but there's a rich language and notation used to explain the concepts, and it's fairly layered. |
| 07:18.10 | findlay | any results achieved although interesting and possibly useful are byproducts |
| 07:18.51 | findlay | but I'm not sure every mathematician shares that point of vieew |
| 07:18.57 | findlay | s/ee/e |
| 07:21.46 | levi | Woo, thanks to Debian, I have cl-sql installed and loaded into my image. |
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| 07:36.41 | levi | Hi Maquis. |
| 07:36.50 | Maquis | levi: hello |
| 07:37.01 | maquis | that's better |
| 07:37.09 | maquis | levi: how long have i been gone? |
| 07:37.22 | maquis | http://edition.cnn.com/2006/BUSINESS/05/18/global.office.linustorvalds/ |
| 07:37.23 | brac | [CNN.com - Reclusive Linux founder opens up - May 18, 2006] |
| 07:43.13 | maquis | "Excel 2007 now supports over 1 million rows and over 16,000 columns per worksheet." |
| 07:43.40 | maquis | if you're using > 1 million rows, or over 16000 columns, Excel is the wrong tool |
| 07:44.08 | levi | Been gone for a while now. |
| 07:44.24 | maquis | levi: hmmm... |
| 07:44.32 | maquis | wonder what's happening on tensai's end... |
| 08:13.41 | levi | Time to sleep. |
| 08:13.48 | levi | maquis: He disappeared when you did. |
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| 12:33.11 | sjansen | ibot: Don't you know it. |
| 12:33.39 | BL4 | morning sjansen |
| 12:36.32 | goozbach | ha ha |
| 12:36.39 | goozbach | ibot: you're crazy |
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| 12:46.52 | Supaplex | morning people |
| 12:48.48 | emcnabb | good morning |
| 12:51.35 | emcnabb | sjansen is so cranky in the morning |
| 12:51.46 | emcnabb | ~slaughter sjansen |
| 12:57.09 | BL4 | hey, anyone know of some places that are hiring beginning computer jobs of some type? |
| 12:57.27 | elg | http://hans.fugal.net/typo/articles/2006/05/24/summer-of-code-2006 |
| 12:57.27 | brac | [Summer of Code 2006] |
| 13:00.55 | BL4 | elg, what an interesting page. |
| 13:01.42 | elg | are you having trouble accessing it or something? |
| 13:02.52 | BL4 | not at all |
| 13:03.56 | maquis | -lart emcnabb |
| 13:04.10 | BL4 | morning maquis |
| 13:05.33 | BL4 | elg, "Inside I would be secretly hoping that he calls the FBI. I've always wanted to meet an FBI agent. We could go to lunch with an FBI IT guy and have a good laugh." ...? |
| 13:09.05 | goozbach | http://www.wired.com/news/columns/0,70968-0.html?tw=rss.index |
| 13:09.06 | brac | [Wired News: In Praise of Car Rentals] |
| 13:09.28 | elg | :) |
| 13:09.38 | elg | so you're saying my blog is interesting |
| 13:09.45 | elg | thanks |
| 13:10.18 | BL4 | elg, yes, it is interesting |
| 13:12.56 | elg | goozbach: that's pretty funny |
| 13:17.01 | BL4 | goozbach, thats great. I really like the parking assistance. |
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| 13:51.46 | ^Migs^ | what's good SVN tool for Linux? |
| 13:51.53 | ^Migs^ | s/what's/what's a/ |
| 13:52.39 | sjansen | elg: congrats |
| 13:52.47 | elg | thx |
| 13:53.00 | sjansen | ^Migs^: Uhmm... svn? |
| 13:53.12 | sjansen | s/svn/svn itself/ |
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| 14:12.16 | elg | http://musicthing.blogspot.com/2006/05/japanese-war-tuba-and-other-strange.html |
| 14:12.17 | brac | [Music thing: The Japanese War Tuba and other strange devices] |
| 14:21.15 | ^Migs^ | <PROTECTED> |
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| 14:53.38 | Uncle_Jesse | redbeard1: you should add strawberries to your tropical salsa |
| 14:56.35 | Uncle_Jesse | redbeard1: oh, and for the kai yang, in Thailand they eat it with sticky rice. It's really good with the sticky rice :-) |
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| 14:57.30 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
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| 15:01.20 | redbeard1 | Uncle_Jesse: yeah, i don't think so |
| 15:02.03 | redbeard1 | strawberries and onion... a classic combination, i'll admit, but i'm more worried about the strawberries mixing with the mango. |
| 15:02.41 | Uncle_Jesse | really? I would think the onion would be the weird one |
| 15:02.48 | Uncle_Jesse | mangos and strawberries sound good |
| 15:02.53 | Uncle_Jesse | but then again I've never tried it |
| 15:03.22 | Uncle_Jesse | I always wished I had strawberries and other berries to add to a lot of the Thai dishes I had over there |
| 15:03.49 | Uncle_Jesse | redbeard1: I'm sick right now - sarcasm meter isn't working ;-) |
| 15:04.21 | Uncle_Jesse | but the sticky rice thing is good - you have to eat the rice and chicken with your hands though |
| 15:04.42 | Uncle_Jesse | use the sauce for the chicken as a dip for the sticky rice |
| 15:05.03 | redbeard1 | the tropical salsa i made was meant to compliment savory items. be it a simple corn chip or spicy chicken, it was meant to go with savory. |
| 15:05.28 | redbeard1 | strawberries... well, you don't see that a whole lot with savory items. and i'm pretty sure there's a good reason for that. |
| 15:05.47 | Uncle_Jesse | yeah - makes sense |
| 15:05.55 | Uncle_Jesse | I'd still like to try it though :-) |
| 15:06.08 | Uncle_Jesse | I guess you'd have to get rid of the onions |
| 15:06.14 | elg | My wife put strawberries on a salad the other day, with ranch |
| 15:06.23 | elg | I about gagged, and I like both strawberries and ranch |
| 15:06.29 | redbeard1 | you could make a strawberry salsa and serve it with pita chips, or fried cinnamon tortilla chips |
| 15:06.54 | Uncle_Jesse | man - you're making me hungry, considering I haven't had much to eat in the last day or two |
| 15:07.01 | redbeard1 | but then, i think there are people in here that would tell you it's not really salsa. i'm not one of them, but there are some. |
| 15:07.19 | Uncle_Jesse | I like different ways of making salsa |
| 15:07.24 | Uncle_Jesse | if it's not homemade it's not good |
| 15:07.46 | Uncle_Jesse | it's especially good if it's all from the garden |
| 15:07.48 | redbeard1 | i like some commercial salsas. i'm never without medium pace picante sauce. it's so handy. |
| 15:08.05 | Uncle_Jesse | not really a fan of Pace |
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| 15:08.29 | redbeard1 | you don't have to be. i just am. |
| 15:09.32 | Uncle_Jesse | yeah - that's the advantage of being a chef. You can make what tastes good to you. |
| 15:11.12 | elg | salsa: spanish for sauce |
| 15:11.16 | redbeard1 | that's silly. you don't have to be a chef to make what tastes good to you. |
| 15:11.17 | elg | is it spanishy? is it a sauce? |
| 15:11.58 | Uncle_Jesse | elg: congrats on SOC approval |
| 15:12.08 | elg | thx |
| 15:12.14 | goozbach | SOC approval? |
| 15:12.21 | goozbach | wha? |
| 15:13.46 | goozbach | ohh just read it |
| 15:13.46 | goozbach | cool, congrats |
| 15:13.47 | ^Migs^ | yeah elg, congrats |
| 15:13.54 | goozbach | has the planet not picked that one up yet? |
| 15:14.34 | Uncle_Jesse | goozbach: it's on there |
| 15:14.55 | Uncle_Jesse | at least it's in my rss |
| 15:15.40 | maquis | elg: congrats! that's way cool! |
| 15:17.10 | ^Migs^ | you r0x0rz my s0x0rz, elg |
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| 15:18.30 | goozbach | google reader doesn't see it yet |
| 15:18.31 | goozbach | hmm |
| 15:18.45 | elg | jakea! |
| 15:18.50 | jakea | elg! |
| 15:19.33 | elg | we need to talk doctor who every week |
| 15:19.36 | goozbach | 9xmedia!! |
| 15:19.47 | goozbach | 4G ram |
| 15:19.51 | goozbach | wahoo!!! |
| 15:20.05 | jakea | we do? |
| 15:20.21 | jakea | I have not seen last week's so shhhhhhhhh |
| 15:22.21 | jakea | but so far, season 2 has been...... fantastic! |
| 15:26.05 | maquis | my partner and i are going to probably end up having to modify that code.... |
| 15:26.20 | jakea | don't work too hard |
| 15:27.10 | maquis | jakea: it appears to be quite easy to fix |
| 15:28.10 | ^Migs^ | just give up |
| 15:29.43 | elg | i've enjoyed it, but I was missing the longer arcs. this 2-parter appeased me |
| 15:30.12 | elg | still, I miss chris |
| 15:30.49 | jakea | in my office at work, we call chris: "The Quitter" |
| 15:31.16 | Uncle_Jesse | who's chris? |
| 15:31.55 | redbeard1 | Uncle_Jesse: he's the quitter |
| 15:31.56 | BL4 | Uncle_Jesse, apparently the quitter. |
| 15:32.19 | Uncle_Jesse | I think I got that ;-) |
| 15:32.48 | redbeard1 | Uncle_Jesse: then why'd you ask? |
| 15:33.14 | Uncle_Jesse | because I want to know, besides "the quitter", who is Chris? |
| 15:33.20 | Uncle_Jesse | :-) |
| 15:33.27 | maquis | Uncle_Jesse: well... he's chris |
| 15:33.30 | redbeard1 | you need to be more specific. |
| 15:33.42 | redbeard1 | good old chris. |
| 15:33.51 | Uncle_Jesse | what color are his eyes? |
| 15:33.51 | goozbach | it's good old clyde |
| 15:33.53 | elg | christopher eccleston. excellent |
| 15:34.11 | Uncle_Jesse | elg: thx |
| 15:34.46 | redbeard1 | harleypig: ping |
| 15:35.28 | Jayce^ | careful redbeard1, he'll pong you upside the head so hard.... |
| 15:35.59 | Uncle_Jesse | mmm...cereal with fruit in it is so good |
| 15:36.00 | redbeard1 | Jayce^: dude, he's not even paying attention. i could lart him upside the head and he'd never notice |
| 15:36.07 | redbeard1 | ~lart harleypig |
| 15:36.45 | Jayce^ | ~nerf harleypig |
| 15:37.01 | Uncle_Jesse | ~smack harleypig |
| 15:37.02 | ibot | ACTION smacks harleypig upside the head. |
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| 15:37.17 | BL4 | Uncles_Jesse, I'm having brownies for breakfast today |
| 15:37.28 | redbeard1 | BL4: breakfast of champions! |
| 15:37.45 | Uncle_Jesse | BL4: normally that would be good, but with an upset stomach, that sounds horrible! |
| 15:37.48 | BL4 | yes, definately, I won't be stressed so I'll be healthier :P |
| 15:38.09 | Uncle_Jesse | I'm trying to ease my stomach back into eating |
| 15:38.38 | BL4 | did you stop eating? |
| 15:38.58 | Uncle_Jesse | BL4: I was forced to with a stomach bug |
| 15:39.20 | BL4 | ahh, and what encouraged you to start eating again :P |
| 15:39.33 | Uncle_Jesse | BL4: that "empty stomach feeling" |
| 15:39.50 | Uncle_Jesse | sucks - your stomach is upset, but it's also upset because it's empty |
| 15:40.14 | BL4 | I remember one night I feel like throwing up from about 10 PM till 6 AM |
| 15:40.25 | BL4 | at about 6 AM I was so tired I made myself throwup so I could sleep |
| 15:40.46 | Uncle_Jesse | yeah - I hate throwing up |
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| 15:41.13 | BL4 | you know, the flu doesn't bother as much anymore, last year my ear drumb ruptured twice and I got mono |
| 15:41.49 | Uncle_Jesse | I can handle anything but stomach ilnesses |
| 15:42.03 | Uncle_Jesse | and double-pneumonia after having your appendix out ;-) |
| 15:43.40 | BL4 | fun :-D |
| 15:43.52 | BL4 | When my ear drumb ruptured I had sooo much lordtab |
| 15:44.00 | Uncle_Jesse | ouch |
| 15:44.09 | ^Migs^ | you sure you're not still on it, BL4? |
| 15:44.38 | BL4 | ^Migs^ no...not at all, but my bottle of lordtab did disappear....makes me wonder what happened to it... |
| 15:44.57 | ^Migs^ | it's loritab, btw |
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| 15:45.06 | BL4 | my bad |
| 15:45.13 | ^Migs^ | and "drum" |
| 15:45.17 | ^Migs^ | hence my earlier comment |
| 15:45.18 | BL4 | ha ha ha |
| 15:45.50 | BL4 | hmm, I can't blame this one on anything |
| 15:46.04 | ^Migs^ | blame it on the lordtab |
| 15:46.07 | BL4 | I need a spellchecker for my IRC conversations :P |
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| 15:47.46 | BL4 | ^Migs^ I suppose I never learned to spell loritab because it was a generic version, and drum/drumb, well, that has something to do with not learning how to speak well until I was 7 or 8. |
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| 16:04.32 | levi_ | ^Migs^: What's spelled 'Loritab'? Certainly you're not talking about the drug, because that's spelled Lortab. |
| 16:05.32 | ^Migs^ | no, I'm quite sure |
| 16:05.38 | levi_ | You're also wrong. |
| 16:05.39 | ^Migs^ | oh |
| 16:05.40 | ^Migs^ | hehehehe |
| 16:05.47 | ^Migs^ | good thing BL4 isn't here anymore |
| 16:06.04 | ^Migs^ | oh nope. Both are acceptable: http://www.scriptsrehab.com/di-loritab.htm |
| 16:06.05 | levi_ | He doesn't seem to care how it's spelled anyway. |
| 16:06.05 | brac | [Loritab: Drug Index] |
| 16:06.23 | ^Migs^ | yeah, he was all like loroityuqvoiatab |
| 16:06.44 | levi_ | Huh, I've always seen it called Lortab. |
| 16:08.39 | mheath[laptop] | Likewise. |
| 16:08.45 | levi_ | Mmmm, hydrocodone. |
| 16:09.02 | mheath[laptop] | mmm indeed :) |
| 16:09.36 | mheath[laptop] | Bleh, I'm going to get sucked into the empty pit that is World of Warcraft again. |
| 16:10.35 | ^Migs^ | play Guild Wars instead then |
| 16:11.07 | ^Migs^ | or make your own game, I dunno |
| 16:13.42 | mheath[laptop] | What kind of complete stupidity compelled Compaq to put the USB ports on the left side of this laptop? |
| 16:13.49 | mheath[laptop] | Makes it really, really annoying for wired mice |
| 16:17.13 | Supaplex | did you order your laptop as a lefty? |
| 16:17.35 | mheath[laptop] | No. |
| 16:18.01 | Uncle_Jesse | mheath[laptop]: does it have bluetooth? |
| 16:18.03 | Supaplex | I bet one of the engineers is. :P |
| 16:20.34 | levi_ | Just get one of the little USB bluetooth dongle thingies and a bluetooth mouse. |
| 16:26.25 | sjansen | AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! |
| 16:26.55 | elg | -lart sjansen |
| 16:27.09 | elg | there, that'll help |
| 16:27.16 | sjansen | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:27.43 | sjansen | ~travolta elg |
| 16:27.45 | ibot | ACTION replaces elg with several craters in a multi-colored display of superior fire power |
| 16:28.43 | elg | sjansen: use the universal language |
| 16:28.49 | elg | a big stick |
| 16:29.11 | sjansen | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:30.37 | sjansen | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:30.42 | levi_ | Heh. |
| 16:30.52 | elg | that doesn't sound eager to learn |
| 16:31.32 | elg | well, let's say it doesn't sound dedicated to learn. some people can be eager for everything |
| 16:31.47 | elg | eager to get in a traffic accident, for examle |
| 16:31.48 | sjansen | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:33.20 | flyboy^ | sjansen: You're too nice. I'd leave a guy like that in the dust. |
| 16:33.47 | sjansen | flyboy^: You're mostly right. |
| 16:34.03 | flyboy^ | Well, being partly wrong is what I'm good at. |
| 16:34.48 | flyboy^ | Time to listen to some Led Zepplin while going BOFH on some servers. |
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| 16:35.18 | sjansen | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:36.34 | flyboy^ | I'm not sure what your set up is, but if I were paying a large sum of money for a class and some idiot was slowing down the whole class - I'd be rather upset. |
| 16:37.04 | flyboy^ | But, if everyone is there for 'free' - then I guess ya just do your best. |
| 16:37.20 | elg | otoh if you were paying a large sum of money to get your idiot taught and he got left in the dust you'd be upset |
| 16:37.28 | sjansen | Oh, no, this is expensive alright. |
| 16:38.06 | flyboy^ | elg: Oddly enough, listing to "Idiot America" - Green Day. |
| 16:38.48 | sjansen | He's not doing much damage anymore, but he did do a fair amount the first day before I realized the real extent of the problem. |
| 16:40.07 | sjansen | Even if someone is unprepared for the class, with a little bit of hand holding they can usually survive without interferring too much. |
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| 16:44.58 | goozbach | sjansen: sorry |
| 16:52.49 | levi_ | Hmm, Frank Black has mellowed out. |
| 16:53.37 | findlay | aren't you glad there are people like me who are willing to listen to the complete works of Mozart several times so that you don't have to? |
| 16:55.36 | levi_ | If I had access to the complete works of Mozart, I would probably listen to them at least once. |
| 16:56.29 | flyboy^ | Do you ever wonder what the music sounded like when it was first performed? |
| 16:56.41 | ^Migs^ | probably sucks as much then as it does now |
| 16:59.16 | levi_ | flyboy^: I believe there are people that try to perform classical works in as authentic a manner as possible. You could probably find recordings. |
| 17:01.18 | findlay | authenticists are nuts |
| 17:01.46 | elg | so are peanuts |
| 17:02.13 | ^Migs^ | I like the new piano music better than classical piano |
| 17:02.28 | levi_ | ^Migs^: What's 'the new piano music'? |
| 17:02.28 | elg | like yanni? |
| 17:02.39 | ^Migs^ | sure |
| 17:02.58 | ^Migs^ | new age piano, neoclassical, whatever you want to call it |
| 17:03.39 | levi_ | Some of it's nice. I'm not crazy about most of it. |
| 17:03.41 | vontrapp | no, you'd have to go live to an "authentic performance" |
| 17:03.48 | vontrapp | there's nothign authentic about a recording |
| 17:04.17 | ^Migs^ | that wouldn't be authenetic either. To be authenetic, you'd have to get zombie Mozart to do the performance |
| 17:04.21 | elg | sure there is. it's an authentic recording. you can't get the authentic recording experience from a live concert |
| 17:04.35 | vontrapp | -lart elg |
| 17:04.39 | levi_ | vontrapp: I didn't say there's anything 'authentic' about it, just that it might be closer to what it originally sounded like. |
| 17:05.21 | levi_ | And ^Migs^ apparently has trouble spelling 'authentic'. |
| 17:05.25 | ^Migs^ | indeed |
| 17:05.30 | ^Migs^ | wow |
| 17:05.33 | ^Migs^ | I messed it up both times |
| 17:05.38 | vontrapp | lol |
| 17:05.39 | levi_ | In different ways! |
| 17:05.43 | vontrapp | ~mock ^Migs^ |
| 17:05.44 | ibot | ACTION pulls ^Migs^'s pants down and shows the world ^Migs^'s pink spotted underwear |
| 17:05.45 | ^Migs^ | no, in the same way |
| 17:06.02 | levi_ | Ah, I guess they are the same. |
| 17:06.12 | ^Migs^ | no guesswork about it. They are definitely the same. |
| 17:06.22 | levi_ | Indeed. |
| 17:07.08 | findlay | there seem to be a lot of anti Stallman trolls lately |
| 17:07.14 | levi_ | ^Migs^: Anyway, your taste in music sucks. :P |
| 17:07.23 | ^Migs^ | I assure you, it doesn't |
| 17:07.35 | levi_ | So you say, but I don't believe you. |
| 17:07.40 | ^Migs^ | you don't even know my taste in music |
| 17:07.52 | macnewbold | then tell us |
| 17:07.58 | ^Migs^ | given the information, your music sucks as bad as my music |
| 17:08.08 | findlay | sweet |
| 17:08.12 | ^Migs^ | I'll listen to pretty much anything and probably like it |
| 17:08.23 | levi_ | ^Migs^: Except for classical piano works, apparently. |
| 17:08.23 | findlay | would you listen to a lawnmower? |
| 17:08.24 | macnewbold | ~^Migs^++ |
| 17:08.32 | ^Migs^ | yes. Lawnmowers are soothing. |
| 17:08.45 | levi_ | How about crying babies? |
| 17:08.46 | findlay | what about lawnmower with piano? |
| 17:08.49 | ^Migs^ | nah, classical piano's all right. I'll listen to it if I'm in the right mood. |
| 17:09.05 | ^Migs^ | findlay: That would actually sound like a lot of the metal music I listen to. |
| 17:09.25 | findlay | if so you would probably enjoy (snickering at) John Cage's music |
| 17:09.26 | ^Migs^ | crying babies sound great, when it's someone else's baby |
| 17:09.38 | ^Migs^ | then I give the parent mean looks and all they can do is sit there ashamed |
| 17:09.51 | levi_ | findlay: Hey, don't knock John Cage. |
| 17:10.17 | ^Migs^ | as for classical piano, I was raised performing it. |
| 17:10.42 | ^Migs^ | it's impossible to hate something you learned for years |
| 17:11.26 | findlay | John Cage is equivalent to artists who think signing your name on a toilet seat superglued to an old door is art |
| 17:11.31 | levi_ | So you think it sucks, but you don't hate it? Or is it just Mozart that you think sucks? |
| 17:11.44 | ^Migs^ | I think u suk |
| 17:12.06 | findlay | ^Migs^ dr00lz |
| 17:12.24 | levi_ | I suck popsicles. They're yummy. |
| 17:12.38 | ^Migs^ | oh I know! I had a purple one the other day... MMMMMMMMMMMM-MMM-MMM-MMM-MM |
| 17:12.40 | *** join/#utah Hhhhh (n=Hhhhh@158.91.201.220) |
| 17:12.47 | findlay | no fair |
| 17:12.53 | ^Migs^ | zomg, I want a popsicle right NOW |
| 17:13.04 | findlay | ~get popsicle |
| 17:13.13 | ^Migs^ | ~popsicle |
| 17:13.18 | findlay | ~invoke popsicle |
| 17:13.20 | levi_ | findlay: You're so stuck in the past! |
| 17:13.32 | ^Migs^ | ~popsicularate |
| 17:13.36 | findlay | levi_: not at all |
| 17:13.45 | vontrapp | ~poopsicle |
| 17:14.05 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 17:15.14 | findlay | levi_: I listen to the music that I enjoy, and am usually very liberal in what I'm willing to listen to. No one else can do any more or less to themselves or others and think themselves fair. |
| 17:15.47 | levi_ | findlay: You don't have to enjoy all art to appreciate it, on some level. |
| 17:16.47 | findlay | there is a boundary across which art becomes nonsense. It is up to everyone to decide for themselves where it is |
| 17:17.17 | levi_ | Often that boundary depends quite a bit on context. |
| 17:17.27 | ^Migs^ | did anyone see that 20/20 (?) awhile ago in which they had "art experts" try to determine if a piece of modern art was made by a professional artist or a group of 5 year-olds? |
| 17:17.39 | ^Migs^ | they got half of them wrong |
| 17:17.45 | findlay | ^Migs^: I think I saw that one |
| 17:17.50 | ^Migs^ | hilarious |
| 17:18.05 | macnewbold | yeah, modern art I think provides more benefit to the artist than to the audience |
| 17:18.10 | findlay | creative bunch of 5 year olds |
| 17:18.29 | ^Migs^ | on one of them, one of the experts said, "Well, that must be a very talented 5 year-old!" and then it cut to the kid laughing and throwing paint everywhere on the canvas |
| 17:19.36 | mrpull- | ~seen hans |
| 17:19.42 | ibot | hans <i=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #utah, 10d 13h 7s ago, saying: 'gah!'. |
| 17:19.43 | mrpull- | ~seen elg |
| 17:19.44 | ibot | elg is currently on #utah (5h 14m 7s). Has said a total of 29 messages. Is idling for 15m 23s, last said: 'sure there is. it's an authentic recording. you can't get the authentic recording experience from a live concert'. |
| 17:20.05 | levi_ | ~seen levi_ |
| 17:20.06 | ibot | levi_ is currently on #utah (1h 39m 4s). Has said a total of 28 messages. Is idling for 1s, last said: '~seen levi_'. |
| 17:20.13 | mrpull- | Hans: Congrats on the summer of code! |
| 17:20.17 | Kuyaedz | art degree summed up: good art is the stuff you like, bad art is the stuff you don't like. |
| 17:20.18 | elg | thx |
| 17:20.37 | findlay | Kuyaedz: there's wisdom in that. |
| 17:20.52 | levi_ | Kuyaedz: That's not at all what an art degree is about. |
| 17:20.55 | elg | Kuyaedz: no, the art degree teaches you that good art is the stuff "they" like, and bad art is the stuff "they" don't like |
| 17:21.06 | elg | common sense tells you good art is what you like and bad art is what you don't like |
| 17:21.08 | Kuyaedz | elg: and thats all BS |
| 17:21.19 | elg | well, that's another argument entirely. :) |
| 17:21.20 | levi_ | It's not /all/ BS. |
| 17:21.22 | Kuyaedz | you can't please everybody |
| 17:21.53 | ^Migs^ | the only art I admire is the stuff that actually looks like something |
| 17:21.58 | ^Migs^ | I love browsing cgtalk.com |
| 17:22.18 | Kuyaedz | I think you could follow all the technique in the world & still make stuff people wont like. |
| 17:22.26 | mrpull- | ^Migs^: what can you see that doesn't look like _something_? |
| 17:22.27 | findlay | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:22.35 | findlay | that was my artistic comment |
| 17:22.39 | vontrapp | you can please everyone |
| 17:22.42 | ^Migs^ | art made with invisible ink |
| 17:22.47 | vontrapp | a good moose bar would do nicely |
| 17:22.49 | findlay | I call it "50 spaces of silence" |
| 17:22.56 | mrpull- | ^Migs^: on an invisible canvas? |
| 17:23.42 | ^Migs^ | I like your approach to that, findlay. It was deep, yet poignant. It's like it reached out and pulls your eyes in, but at the same time pushes you away |
| 17:23.58 | vontrapp | o.0 findlay has become an art master |
| 17:24.19 | findlay | ^Migs^: that was closely related to my own, singular but deep motives for the work |
| 17:25.09 | *** part/#utah Kuyaedz (n=Kuyaedz@kuyaedz.fttp.xmission.com) |
| 17:25.36 | *** join/#utah Kuyaedz (n=christer@kuyaedz.fttp.xmission.com) |
| 17:25.39 | findlay | ^Migs^: it was about the deafening vacuum and how we're all isolated from the cosmic grandness that could make our trifles pointless |
| 17:25.47 | vontrapp | moose have thumbs? |
| 17:25.54 | elg | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:26.04 | elg | vontrapp: they do when gtk is compiling |
| 17:26.28 | ^Migs^ | that was my initial impression, but then I figured you were going for the bleakness of life, and our inward yearning to wipe it all away and start over with a blank slate |
| 17:26.54 | findlay | ^Migs^: you see things in my art I had not noticed |
| 17:27.20 | vontrapp | i thought he was trying to silence his own inner demons by silencing himself |
| 17:27.35 | ^Migs^ | that's another great interpretation |
| 17:27.37 | vontrapp | or his daemons |
| 17:27.43 | ^Migs^ | oo |
| 17:27.53 | findlay | I have 84 running right now |
| 17:28.04 | ^Migs^ | too bad findlay's not dead, or that comment would be worth at least $1000 |
| 17:28.04 | findlay | well, procs anyway |
| 17:28.22 | findlay | some of them I supposes are daemonic |
| 17:28.35 | vontrapp | you know, like things are just relentlessly going on and on, sometimes you have to take a moment of silence from your inner daemons, maybe even reboot |
| 17:29.16 | findlay | and you see the blankness again reflected in the lifeless, bleak monitor |
| 17:30.26 | findlay | yea, lars-ut is here! |
| 17:30.29 | findlay | ~cheer |
| 17:30.31 | ibot | shift to the left, unshift to the right, push down, pop up, byte byte byte. |
| 17:30.49 | ^Migs^ | findlay's bleak art demonstrates his internal conflict, his overcoming of childhood trauma at the hands of an abusive stepfather, and his constant struggle with drug abuse |
| 17:31.06 | ^Migs^ | it's clearly reflected in his artistic depictions |
| 17:31.12 | findlay | clearly |
| 17:33.37 | vontrapp | ~reboot findlay |
| 17:33.38 | ibot | ACTION pushes findlay's reset button |
| 17:35.28 | findlay | <beep> |
| 17:38.58 | *** join/#utah fun4all (n=rocky@tor/session/external/x-8f1a6bbda0d6a159) |
| 17:39.58 | *** part/#utah fun4all (n=rocky@tor/session/external/x-8f1a6bbda0d6a159) |
| 17:43.34 | ^Migs^ | fun4all wasn't very fun |
| 17:44.15 | *** join/#utah amcnabb (n=amcnabb@c-67-169-251-207.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 17:44.17 | brac | [Music thing: vPipes: Super-hot MIDI bagpipes] |
| 17:47.24 | goozbach | ibot: onjoin amcnaab |
| 17:47.38 | goozbach | ibot: onjoin _default amcnaab |
| 17:47.53 | goozbach | ibot: onjoin _default amcnaab? |
| 17:48.03 | goozbach | ibot, ping |
| 17:48.04 | ibot | pong |
| 17:48.16 | goozbach | ibot doesn't love me anymore |
| 17:51.40 | findlay | sjansen: don't question the clairvoyance of goozbach |
| 17:58.59 | sjansen | ibot: onjoin _default amcnabb |
| 17:59.11 | sjansen | ibot: onjoin #utah amcnabb |
| 17:59.11 | ibot | onjoin for amcnabb set by elg on Sat May 13 10:32:01 2006: http://musicthing.blogspot.com/2006/05/vpipes-super-hot-midi-bagpipes.html |
| 17:59.12 | brac | [Music thing: vPipes: Super-hot MIDI bagpipes] |
| 18:03.12 | *** join/#utah spr (n=spr@ramona.cs.byu.edu) |
| 18:03.45 | lars-ut | findlay: afternoon! |
| 18:05.31 | lars-ut | -urls 5 |
| 18:05.31 | brac | [2006/05/24 10:06:05] <^Migs^> http://www.scriptsrehab.com/di-loritab.htm |
| 18:05.32 | brac | [2006/05/24 08:12:17] <elg> http://musicthing.blogspot.com/2006/05/japanese-war-tuba-and-other-strange.html |
| 18:05.32 | brac | [2006/05/24 07:09:06] <goozbach> http://www.wired.com/news/columns/0,70968-0.html?tw=rss.index |
| 18:05.32 | brac | [2006/05/24 06:57:27] <elg> http://hans.fugal.net/typo/articles/2006/05/24/summer-of-code-2006 |
| 18:05.34 | brac | [2006/05/24 01:37:23] <maquis> http://edition.cnn.com/2006/BUSINESS/05/18/global.office.linustorvalds/ |
| 18:07.20 | ^Migs^ | -urls 6,10 |
| 18:07.21 | brac | incorrect usage, ask for help using 'brac: help urls' |
| 18:07.25 | ^Migs^ | brac: help urls |
| 18:07.25 | brac | urls [<max>=4] => list <max> last urls mentioned in current channel, urls search [<max>=4] <regexp> => search for matching urls. In a private message, you must specify the channel to query, eg. urls <channel> [max], urls search <channel> [max] <regexp> |
| 18:09.49 | *** join/#utah mheath[laptop]_ (n=mheath@c-67-182-231-23.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 18:10.19 | mheath[laptop]_ | ~logs |
| 18:10.20 | ibot | apt/ibot/jbot/purl all log to http://ibot.rikers.org/<channelname>/ where channelname is html encoded ie: %23debian | lines that start with a space are not shown | some channels have stats at http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/<channelname>.html.gz, or updated "nightly" |
| 18:21.47 | mheath[laptop]_ | Hmmm |
| 18:22.10 | mheath[laptop]_ | My laptop has some "Quick Launch" buttons, for controlling Wireless Connectivity, volume, and muting |
| 18:22.17 | mheath[laptop]_ | I know that these are usually treated like keyboard keys |
| 18:22.34 | mheath[laptop]_ | But, the wireless button and the muting button have a light |
| 18:22.55 | mheath[laptop]_ | Anyone know how I could get such things to work in Linux? |
| 18:23.32 | elg | hydrochloric acid |
| 18:23.41 | sjansen | elg: thirsty? |
| 18:23.57 | elg | just some TLC for internet buttons |
| 18:25.33 | mheath[laptop]_ | brb |
| 18:26.29 | vontrapp | i was going to answer some, but he left... |
| 18:27.31 | emcnabb | I've been getting the funniest spam subject lines recently. The most recent: "Even hot girls have to fart" |
| 18:27.53 | vontrapp | it's a trap, don't fall into it! |
| 18:30.15 | goozbach | my fingers don't love me anymore |
| 18:30.29 | goozbach | ibot: onjoin #utah amcnabb |
| 18:30.29 | ibot | onjoin for amcnabb set by elg on Sat May 13 10:32:01 2006: http://musicthing.blogspot.com/2006/05/vpipes-super-hot-midi-bagpipes.html |
| 18:30.30 | brac | [Music thing: vPipes: Super-hot MIDI bagpipes] |
| 18:30.35 | goozbach | ibot: onjoin #utah -amcnabb |
| 18:30.35 | ibot | ok, goozbach |
| 18:30.46 | goozbach | sjansen: thanks for pointing out I'm an idiot |
| 18:31.25 | vontrapp | -lart hiccups |
| 18:31.39 | vontrapp | awrrwg, my trachea |
| 18:35.21 | findlay | I've been getting Japanese spam lately |
| 18:35.30 | findlay | don't know what it says |
| 18:35.49 | vontrapp | findlay: i got that a couple months ago |
| 18:36.06 | findlay | vontrapp: what does it say? |
| 18:36.17 | Uncle_Jesse | so, what is everyone's favorite mailing list serve software? |
| 18:36.25 | elg | we are japanese if you pleeaes |
| 18:36.32 | findlay | mailman |
| 18:36.34 | findlay | ? |
| 18:37.24 | Uncle_Jesse | anyone prefer anything other than mailman? |
| 18:38.15 | elg | yes, I prefer the program that works better than mailman, is easier to configure, and has few dependencies |
| 18:38.27 | vontrapp | it says japanese stuff |
| 18:38.28 | elg | and doesn't let you change reply-to. ;-) |
| 18:39.43 | Uncle_Jesse | elg: what is that? Or do you know of one? |
| 18:40.13 | elg | let me know when you find it |
| 18:40.18 | Uncle_Jesse | those are my complaints as well, fyi |
| 18:42.31 | *** join/#utah Tene (n=tene@poipu/supporter/slacker/tene) |
| 19:11.37 | QBFreak | I suppose its a sign I really need to clean when I lose an spindle of CDs that had been sitting out in plain sight |
| 19:14.26 | QBFreak | even worse...they were put away (first place I looked) and I still didn't see them |
| 19:27.18 | *** join/#utah graphyx (n=mkling@12.174.37.165) |
| 19:30.29 | levi_ | Why I'm a hit at all the parties: http://www.old-computers.com/fun/stupid_scans/stupid_Atari_great_laugh.jpg |
| 19:33.03 | sjansen | goozbach: Anytime. |
| 19:33.29 | elg | player-missile graphics! |
| 19:34.34 | levi_ | Potent little cartridges! |
| 19:35.15 | sjansen | goozbach: Bonus points if she's young, cute & single. |
| 19:36.07 | sjansen | elg: Perhaps you should write one based on ActionMailer. |
| 19:36.21 | tristanbob | the sad thing about that ad is that there are no single women for the main character |
| 19:37.35 | tristanbob | guess he'll have to program one like Wierd Science |
| 19:37.59 | levi_ | But the Colonel calls him "top drawer" |
| 19:38.05 | levi_ | That's reward enough! |
| 19:38.16 | levi_ | Besides, that's only one party. I'm sure there were many others. |
| 19:44.11 | levi_ | www.chiptune.com |
| 19:48.12 | Uncle_Jesse | levi_: ha! I want one of those in a larger size to hang on my wall |
| 19:59.13 | sjansen | As I was saying, elg, if you use ActionMailer to replace Mailman, then it could use rails as the interface, and a real database for it's data store, and have a standard, structured design instead of the current mess of Python code. |
| 19:59.48 | sjansen | Old men would praise you, young men would want to be you, woman would flock to you, small children would hug you. |
| 19:59.57 | sjansen | You would be added to the history books. |
| 20:00.09 | elg | this is all true |
| 20:00.13 | elg | sounds perfect for you |
| 20:00.20 | sjansen | Your name would join that of other greats like Albert Einstein and John Cleese. |
| 20:00.23 | levi_ | sjansen: He's already got his SoC project to work on. You're just doing that silly Guru stuff. |
| 20:00.28 | sjansen | And I'd be pretty thankful too. |
| 20:01.08 | elg | http://www.tuaw.com/2006/05/24/found-footage-smack-your-macbook-pro/ |
| 20:01.09 | brac | [Found Footage: Smack your MacBook Pro - The Unofficial Apple Weblog (TUAW)] |
| 20:02.55 | levi_ | elg: Awesome. :) |
| 20:02.59 | *** join/#utah Lone_Wanderer (n=chatzill@c-71-199-35-158.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 20:09.12 | Uncle_Jesse | I love the Mac |
| 20:10.34 | Uncle_Jesse | I think the MacBooks need gyroscopes |
| 20:10.36 | Uncle_Jesse | just for fun |
| 20:14.24 | Uncle_Jesse | everything needs a gyroscope :-) |
| 20:14.46 | graphyx | next get a colidascope on it. |
| 20:15.24 | Uncle_Jesse | a laser projector, too |
| 20:15.37 | *** join/#utah tranquiler (n=nutlike@tor/session/external/x-9782ebfae02ed253) |
| 20:15.52 | graphyx | one of these? |
| 20:15.56 | Lone_Wanderer | I'd like a collideascope |
| 20:15.58 | graphyx | for your tablet pc? |
| 20:16.10 | graphyx | http://www.alpern.org/weblog/stories/2003/01/09/projectionKeyboards.html |
| 20:16.12 | brac | [Projection Keyboards] |
| 20:16.34 | Uncle_Jesse | graphyx: that's getting close, but one that can project anything you want |
| 20:16.40 | *** part/#utah tranquiler (n=nutlike@tor/session/external/x-9782ebfae02ed253) |
| 20:16.47 | graphyx | That would be an interseting idea. |
| 20:17.00 | graphyx | A laptop that isn't a laptop, but a projector and a projection keyboard. |
| 20:17.10 | graphyx | So the laptop doesn't have any keyboard or screen. |
| 20:17.20 | graphyx | Think mac mini with two projection protrusions. |
| 20:17.29 | *** join/#utah Migs (i=Migs@205.122.50.21) |
| 20:17.36 | Uncle_Jesse | but just a gyroscope would be enough to keep me busy |
| 20:17.45 | *** join/#utah ^Migs^ (i=Migs@205.122.50.21) |
| 20:17.49 | ^Migs^ | oops |
| 20:18.13 | graphyx | You trying to get it without ibot saying anything? |
| 20:18.20 | Lone_Wanderer | ibot tells you to stfu every time you join? |
| 20:18.22 | ^Migs^ | ? |
| 20:18.31 | ^Migs^ | no, I accidentally disconnected |
| 20:20.15 | levi_ | Uncle_Jesse: Why do you want a gyroscope? |
| 20:20.31 | Uncle_Jesse | levi_: because they're cool |
| 20:20.41 | Uncle_Jesse | I could use my laptop as a steering wheel then |
| 20:20.48 | levi_ | Accelerometers are cool, too. |
| 20:20.48 | Lone_Wanderer | You can get a gyroscope without having it attached to your laptop... |
| 20:21.06 | Uncle_Jesse | Lone_Wanderer: but then I couldn't use my laptop as a steering wheel |
| 20:21.09 | sjansen | elg: I'm already, uhm, err.... busy being the Plug webmaster. |
| 20:21.20 | Uncle_Jesse | or you could have the screen rotate as you rotate the laptop |
| 20:21.24 | levi_ | Uncle_Jesse: I believe it already detects tilt. |
| 20:21.31 | Lone_Wanderer | That would be cool. |
| 20:21.57 | levi_ | Uncle_Jesse: So you probably could get it to act as a steering wheel. Depends on what axes it works on. |
| 20:22.14 | Uncle_Jesse | levi_: through the camera? |
| 20:22.42 | levi_ | Uncle_Jesse: No, the Sudden Motion Sensor. |
| 20:22.45 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch@66.239.25.106.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 20:22.50 | levi_ | Which I assume is an accelerometer. |
| 20:22.53 | Uncle_Jesse | interesting |
| 20:22.59 | Uncle_Jesse | didn't realize that |
| 20:23.02 | Uncle_Jesse | cool |
| 20:25.01 | levi_ | You could probably also do a steering wheel effect with the camera, but it would be trickier. |
| 20:26.32 | Lone_Wanderer | "Chinese Employers Grant 15-Minute Maternity Break" |
| 20:26.59 | graphyx | Where do they find this 15 minute maternity? |
| 20:27.07 | graphyx | My wife suffered through 9 months last time. |
| 20:27.11 | *** join/#utah mheath[laptop] (n=mheath@c-67-182-231-23.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 20:27.20 | Lone_Wanderer | In the bathroom apparently. |
| 20:27.34 | mheath[laptop] | how exciting |
| 20:27.39 | Lone_Wanderer | http://www.theonion.com/content/node/48743 |
| 20:27.53 | Lone_Wanderer | "During the last moments of childbirth, a female employee's productivity diminishes sharply," |
| 20:28.03 | mheath[laptop] | Standard Form 86 (EG), Questionnaire for National Security Positions |
| 20:28.04 | macnewbold | ? |
| 20:28.32 | mheath[laptop] | Form 0704-0413, Medical Prescreen of Medical History |
| 20:28.57 | mheath[laptop] | What delightfully boring paperwork I have. |
| 20:28.57 | Lone_Wanderer | Are you selling medical insurance, mheath? |
| 20:29.16 | mheath[laptop] | Lone_Wanderer, no, I'm filling out forms to join the Marine Corp and get a security clearance. |
| 20:29.44 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh |
| 20:30.50 | mheath[laptop] | Oh, today was a good day |
| 20:31.17 | mheath[laptop] | My dad went down to the Social Security Administration today, to see about benefits when he turns 62 in a bit |
| 20:31.35 | mheath[laptop] | Turns out, we were eligible for survivor benefits when my mom died |
| 20:31.37 | Tene | My father is unemployed starting today. |
| 20:31.54 | Lone_Wanderer | :( |
| 20:31.58 | mheath[laptop] | I should have been getting a ~$400 every month, for the past 9 yearas |
| 20:32.10 | sjansen | bummer :-( |
| 20:32.16 | Lone_Wanderer | You going to get backpay? |
| 20:32.17 | mheath[laptop] | They can give me up to 6 months in the past, and it continues until I'm 18 |
| 20:32.36 | mheath[laptop] | so, we're getting a roughly $3,000 check in the mail in the next couple of days |
| 20:34.19 | macnewbold | so you're saying you missed out on 8.5 years * $400 a month? That kinda sucks. That would have been over $40,000, plus interest if you saved it up or something. |
| 20:34.26 | macnewbold | but still, $3000 is nice |
| 20:34.31 | macnewbold | how much longer will you collect for? |
| 20:34.43 | macnewbold | I guess if you're joining the marines, you're almost 18 :) |
| 20:41.26 | *** join/#utah RyanE_ (n=ryan@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 21:07.31 | vontrapp | mheath[laptop]: you're back |
| 21:07.39 | redbeard1 | flyboy^: ping |
| 21:07.44 | vontrapp | what kinnd of laptop? |
| 21:07.50 | vontrapp | re: those key things |
| 21:13.50 | mheath[laptop] | vontrapp, did I leave? |
| 21:14.24 | mheath[laptop] | I mean, yeah, I left to game, but... |
| 21:14.37 | vontrapp | mheath[laptop]_ did |
| 21:14.45 | vontrapp | i assumed that meant you were gone |
| 21:14.59 | vontrapp | anyway... i use xbindkeys for those "internet" keys |
| 21:15.06 | vontrapp | xbindkeys-config for easy setup |
| 21:15.10 | mheath[laptop] | I know I can bind them to something |
| 21:15.13 | mheath[laptop] | thats easy |
| 21:15.19 | mheath[laptop] | my question was, two of them have lights |
| 21:15.31 | mheath[laptop] | the turn-on-the-wireless button has a light signalling that wireless is on |
| 21:15.40 | mheath[laptop] | the mute button has a light signalling that the sound is muted |
| 21:15.50 | vontrapp | as for the mute led, i can tell you it can work, maybe try making sure the card is actually being set to mute and not just turned down all the way |
| 21:15.56 | vontrapp | mine works |
| 21:16.13 | mheath[laptop] | Hmmm. |
| 21:16.17 | vontrapp | but iirc it only worked after i install demudi http://demudi.agnula.org |
| 21:16.26 | vontrapp | what kind of laptop? |
| 21:16.41 | mheath[laptop] | Compaq Presrio v5000 |
| 21:16.44 | mheath[laptop] | Widescreen monitor <3 |
| 21:17.08 | vontrapp | the wireless button is a thing all it's own |
| 21:17.27 | vontrapp | when i was using ndis, the light flashed while per data transfer |
| 21:17.34 | vontrapp | with the new driver it's just a constant on |
| 21:18.09 | vontrapp | as for pushing the button, that's a hard switch on the card, and you have to reload drivers after making sure it's 'on' to get it to work again |
| 21:18.54 | vontrapp | mine's an hp pavillion, widescreen, but i think they're basically the same, at least the look so |
| 21:19.15 | vontrapp | s/the/they/ |
| 21:19.45 | Lone_Wanderer | theyy're :D |
| 21:19.56 | Lone_Wanderer | s/the /they / |
| 21:20.11 | mheath[laptop] | vontrapp, on this laptop, its all software |
| 21:20.23 | mheath[laptop] | I don't think the buttons are tied directly to the hardware at alll |
| 21:20.32 | mheath[laptop] | in Windows, a little daemon sits in the tray and monitors the buttons |
| 21:20.39 | mheath[laptop] | And the buttons don't work until that program has loaded |
| 21:50.01 | mrpull- | http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=277941 |
| 21:50.03 | brac | [ksl.com - Utah's Online Source for Local News & Information Low Flying Paraglider Causes Stir] |
| 21:50.07 | mrpull- | oh boy. |
| 21:50.53 | Jayce^ | figures it would be him |
| 21:50.56 | findlay | "paraglider" does that mean someone who's paralyzed goes off flying in an unpowered aricraft? |
| 21:51.13 | Jayce^ | my Father in law does PPGA (powered paraglider) in CA... even down there people have heard of him |
| 21:51.31 | Jayce^ | PPGA is almost non-existant (in favor of non-powered) specifically because of dell |
| 21:51.34 | mrpull- | Jayce^: no kidding? what a goofball. |
| 21:52.01 | Jayce^ | a lot of people in the industry won't even talk to you, or accept your traning if you bought/were trained by dell |
| 21:52.43 | mrpull- | that is awesome! |
| 21:52.49 | findlay | totally |
| 21:53.11 | Jayce^ | ~lart findlay |
| 21:56.02 | Jayce^ | he's been known to skim the freeway before.. just following it is against the rules.. |
| 21:56.29 | levi_ | Heh, he never ceases to amaze me with his arrogance and idiocy. |
| 21:58.11 | elg | nutcase. :) |
| 21:58.19 | elg | still, if faa regulations allow it |
| 21:58.25 | elg | then it's just bad judgement |
| 21:58.57 | Jayce^ | elg, faa regs don't allow *that* |
| 21:59.23 | Jayce^ | there are some ways to interpret it poorly when it comes to PPG(a) though which he could be doing |
| 22:00.43 | elg | well i didn't figure they would, but if they did |
| 22:06.00 | levi_ | A friend of mine here said he used to see him flying home from the point of the mountain every day. Apparently he got in trouble for that, since it caused him to enter class B airspace. |
| 22:09.28 | elg | not every valley has a resident nutcase you know |
| 22:09.43 | elg | minor homeless nutcase celebrities |
| 22:09.48 | elg | but nothing like superdell |
| 22:12.48 | mheath[laptop] | I wish I could figure out how to get these buttons working in GNU/Linux |
| 22:12.59 | mheath[laptop] | thats the one thing stopping me from just installing Ubuntu on here... |
| 22:18.52 | Lone_Wanderer | testing one foo |
| 22:18.55 | Lone_Wanderer | testing too bar |
| 22:19.01 | Lone_Wanderer | s/foo/blub |
| 22:19.08 | Lone_Wanderer | s/foo/blub |
| 22:19.12 | Lone_Wanderer | asdf |
| 22:19.15 | Lone_Wanderer | s/asdf/boo |
| 22:19.19 | Lone_Wanderer | hmm |
| 22:19.38 | nick125_ | mmm |
| 22:20.03 | nick125_ | I think speakeasy needs to go find themselves a nice "ISP Billing 101" course... |
| 22:20.13 | Lone_Wanderer | Speaking of ISPs |
| 22:20.34 | Lone_Wanderer | My connection is very reliable in becoming unstable in the wee hours of the morning. |
| 22:20.46 | Lone_Wanderer | Between midnight and 3 am, every day. |
| 22:20.56 | Lone_Wanderer | But my ISP claims (of course) that nothing is going on and that it's in my head. |
| 22:21.22 | Lone_Wanderer | Is there a way I can somehow demonstrate to them that there really is a problem? |
| 22:22.00 | *** join/#utah RyanE (n=ryan@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 22:22.29 | nick125_ | damnit..I wish I had that ICMP ping program that would show you when packet loss occured.. |
| 22:22.48 | Lone_Wanderer | That's something like what I need. |
| 22:23.04 | Lone_Wanderer | 'cause it's sporadic, and doesn't always happen long enough for me to quit what I'm doing and fire up the diagnostics |
| 22:24.32 | nick125_ | Statistics: |
| 22:24.32 | nick125_ | Total pings: 3 (Average ping time: 161.748409271) |
| 22:24.32 | nick125_ | Total errors: 0 (Last Error: Never) |
| 22:24.32 | nick125_ | Total runtime: 0 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes and 3.19697213173 seconds |
| 22:24.32 | nick125_ | Press enter to continue or "a" for errors or <ctrl> c to exit: |
| 22:24.37 | nick125_ | could that kind of info help you? |
| 22:24.47 | Lone_Wanderer | Well. |
| 22:24.48 | mrpull- | mheath[laptop]: are you using Gnome? |
| 22:24.54 | Lone_Wanderer | Could I just run it in the background forever or something? |
| 22:25.01 | mheath[laptop] | mrpull-: I would be, yess. |
| 22:25.05 | nick125_ | Lone_Wanderer: run it in a screen.. |
| 22:25.13 | Lone_Wanderer | I'm on Windows =\ |
| 22:25.15 | nick125_ | ouch |
| 22:25.16 | nick125_ | hm |
| 22:25.46 | nick125_ | could you setup a linux box to run it on (doesn't need to be anything powerful, just enough to run the script) |
| 22:25.53 | Lone_Wanderer | Yeah, I could. |
| 22:26.08 | nick125_ | cool.. |
| 22:26.10 | Lone_Wanderer | In fact I probably should. I've got this server box sitting around doing nothing. It's pretty nice. |
| 22:26.14 | Lone_Wanderer | Well, it was a few years ago anyway. |
| 22:26.30 | nick125_ | then, you can ssh in, press ctrl c (it blocks the first ctrl-c) and get the stats of the line |
| 22:26.36 | Lone_Wanderer | k |
| 22:26.46 | Lone_Wanderer | and who can I ping? |
| 22:27.07 | Lone_Wanderer | I guess I've got my own server. |
| 22:27.44 | nick125_ | google works.. |
| 22:27.57 | Lone_Wanderer | mmkay |
| 22:28.07 | Lone_Wanderer | assuming they don't mind me pinging their server 24/7 for a week straight :D |
| 22:28.28 | Lone_Wanderer | Plus then the ISP can't say that my server's wacky. |
| 22:28.46 | elg | smokeping |
| 22:30.13 | Lone_Wanderer | cool |
| 22:31.04 | nick125_ | Lone_Wanderer: still want me to tar up the stuff I've got here? |
| 22:31.19 | Lone_Wanderer | nah, I'll just get smokeping :) |
| 22:31.19 | mrpull- | i don't have my gnome box in front of me now, but I didn't have any problem getting the volume and mute buttons on my HPaq laptop working in Warty |
| 22:31.32 | mrpull- | there was a keyboard applet somewhere in those menus |
| 22:31.47 | mrpull- | i know I'm not helping other than saying it _is_ possible |
| 22:32.06 | Lone_Wanderer | Hmm, this particular ping result reminds me of the 500 mile email. |
| 22:32.14 | nick125_ | lol |
| 22:32.22 | Lone_Wanderer | you've heard the story? |
| 22:32.29 | nick125_ | no.. |
| 22:33.04 | Lone_Wanderer | I got a call from the chairman of the statistics department. "We're having a problem sending email out of the department." "What's the problem?" I asked. "We can't send mail more than 500 miles," the chairman explained. |
| 22:33.25 | Lone_Wanderer | http://www.ibiblio.org/harris/500milemail.html |
| 22:33.26 | brac | [The case of the 500-mile email] |
| 22:34.26 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@cobra.mcnabbs.org) |
| 22:35.11 | mrpull- | mheath[laptop]: Here is what I did |
| 22:35.44 | mrpull- | System | Preferences | Keyboard Shortcuts |
| 22:36.06 | mrpull- | Click the action, push the button... That easy |
| 22:46.21 | elg | wow, that's amazing |
| 22:46.36 | elg | (the 500-mile email) |
| 22:46.51 | nick125_ | yeah.. |
| 22:47.21 | elg | it's amazing that the stats guys were right. :) |
| 22:47.55 | mrpull- | Geostatisticians!? |
| 22:48.02 | mrpull- | I love that story |
| 22:51.00 | *** join/#utah reals (n=eastboun@tor/session/external/x-51d5c68b8fec9a46) |
| 22:52.00 | *** part/#utah reals (n=eastboun@tor/session/external/x-51d5c68b8fec9a46) |
| 22:52.17 | elg | time to figureo ut scons |
| 22:52.44 | nick125_ | is it bad when a comcast line owns my speakeasy line in reliability and latency? |
| 22:52.52 | elg | yes |
| 22:53.27 | nick125_ | okay, that's what I thought.. |
| 22:53.51 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@208.64.90.18.utahbroadband.com) |
| 22:53.54 | nick125_ | considering I'm paying 2-3 times more for my speakeasy line.. |
| 22:54.24 | elg | who |
| 22:54.39 | elg | whoa, how can you pay 2-3 times what comcast charges? you might as well buy a car |
| 22:54.55 | mrpull- | nick125: why have both? |
| 22:55.00 | nick125_ | mrpull-: I don't.. |
| 22:55.18 | nick125_ | I was over at a friends house where he has comcast, and I ran some pings out |
| 22:56.17 | nick125_ | I pay $140 a month for DSL and VoIP.. |
| 22:56.23 | nick125_ | $20 for the VoIP |
| 22:56.38 | elg | $120 for DSL?! |
| 22:56.40 | mrpull- | nick125_: youch. |
| 22:56.54 | nick125_ | well, more like $110 or so..but, yeah |
| 22:57.14 | elg | do you live at the bottom of the ocean? |
| 22:57.25 | nick125_ | nah, albuquerque, nm.. |
| 22:57.38 | elg | dude. I live in las cruces and I pay $40 for 1.6 |
| 22:57.40 | elg | er, 1.5 |
| 22:57.45 | nick125_ | I could get the same speed line from lbdsl for 89.95 |
| 22:57.52 | nick125_ | and, they have a POP in denver |
| 22:57.55 | elg | that's with the standalone price hike, too |
| 22:58.04 | nick125_ | instead of a POP in dallas |
| 22:58.37 | elg | well, take that back. $60. $40 for qwest, $20 for xmission |
| 22:58.57 | nick125_ | how much latency? |
| 22:59.02 | *** join/#utah ScytheBlade1 (n=Death@about/pxe/ScytheBlade1) |
| 22:59.03 | elg | to where? |
| 22:59.12 | nick125_ | google |
| 23:01.14 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch@63-230-31-211.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 23:01.14 | nick125_ | and to first hop as well |
| 23:01.47 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (n=linuxali@tor/session/external/x-4889c7c0c2b51d42) |
| 23:03.11 | elg | http://falcon.fugal.net/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=General.Google |
| 23:03.51 | elg | and http://falcon.fugal.net/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=General.XMission |
| 23:04.19 | nick125_ | so, around 100ms to first hop..hrm |
| 23:04.33 | mrpull- | 3% packet loss is an interesting stat |
| 23:04.36 | elg | how does that compare? |
| 23:04.46 | nick125_ | 30ms or so is interleaving (qwest puts that on their DSL circuits) |
| 23:04.52 | nick125_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:04.52 | nick125_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:05.04 | elg | hm, yes. that's rather high packet loss |
| 23:05.09 | elg | it's not normal as you can see |
| 23:05.55 | nick125_ | 64 bytes from 64.233.167.99: icmp_seq=1 ttl=247 time=162 ms |
| 23:05.55 | nick125_ | 64 bytes from 64.233.167.99: icmp_seq=2 ttl=247 time=151 ms |
| 23:05.58 | nick125_ | ^^ google |
| 23:06.35 | nick125_ | so, around the same.. |
| 23:06.35 | elg | it's also post-gateway |
| 23:06.37 | elg | http://falcon.fugal.net/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=General.XMission.xm_gateway |
| 23:06.45 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 23:07.21 | elg | i get a free month if you sign up for xmission on my recommendation. ;-) |
| 23:07.30 | mrpull- | yeah. i'm curious which carrier it is. |
| 23:08.06 | mrpull- | .... time to make the donuts.... errr go home. |
| 23:08.27 | nick125_ | according to this, xmission caps the download amount |
| 23:09.11 | nick125_ | (I'm reading their site) |
| 23:12.11 | elg | i think that may be old info |
| 23:12.24 | elg | they used to have a limit on bandwidth usage, but no longer do |
| 23:12.28 | nick125_ | maybe.. |
| 23:12.39 | elg | i never went over, but it was nice to know they were opening it up |
| 23:13.49 | *** join/#utah ScytheBlade1 (n=Death@about/pxe/ScytheBlade1) |
| 23:14.07 | nick125_ | hmm.. |
| 23:14.17 | nick125_ | All I know is that this is getting pathetic |
| 23:14.47 | elg | of course I never went over because at the time I was at 256kbit and could not go over if I tried. :) |
| 23:14.58 | elg | even if I downloaded 24/7 I think I figured |
| 23:15.13 | nick125_ | lol |
| 23:15.34 | nick125_ | I need to get under 100ms to first hop...thats one thing |
| 23:15.51 | elg | why? |
| 23:16.06 | elg | xmission is in utah, which explains the large first hop |
| 23:16.15 | nick125_ | well, ssh, voip, etc are all highly latency sensitive |
| 23:16.32 | nick125_ | I think the reason I'm getting crappy latency is the covad trunks at the CO here are overloaded..that's just a guess |
| 23:16.33 | elg | i use voip exclusively |
| 23:16.44 | elg | and ssh all the time |
| 23:17.12 | nick125_ | I bet if qwest put your line on fastpath, you would drop about 30ms in latency.. |
| 23:19.02 | elg | do they charge extra for that? |
| 23:19.21 | nick125_ | the three reasons I'm trying to avoid qwest: interleave, horrible business practices (have you ever tried to cancel qwest services?), and having to deal with two parties for support |
| 23:19.27 | nick125_ | elg: they simply won't do it |
| 23:19.53 | elg | so why do they have a name for it? |
| 23:20.05 | nick125_ | people in DSLreports have tried tooth and nail to get qwest to put their line in fastpath |
| 23:20.23 | nick125_ | covad-based DSL services are normally in fastpath.. |
| 23:20.37 | nick125_ | qwest, technically, they can put it in fastpath, they just choose not to |
| 23:21.01 | nick125_ | interleave is good for lines far away from the CO, as it does more error checking, but, with that error checking, comes more latency |
| 23:23.24 | nick125_ | fastpath does less error checking, but, it isn't good for high-distance lines |
| 23:23.35 | nick125_ | however, my line isn't high-distance |
| 23:23.41 | nick125_ | 3960ft from CO |
| 23:25.41 | *** part/#utah ^Migs^ (i=Migs@205.122.50.21) |
| 23:27.09 | nick125_ | I hate speakeasy soo much |
| 23:27.29 | nick125_ | I've actually been told to basically not to call in again about my latency issues.. |
| 23:28.28 | nick125_ | I've also been told I live out in the middle of no where and this is the best I'm going to get |
| 23:29.45 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (n=von@208.187.198.66) |
| 23:31.35 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch@63-230-31-211.slkc.qwest.net) |
