| 00:16.55 | *** join/#utah Kuyaedz (n=Kuyaedz@kuyaedz.fttp.xmission.com) |
| 00:19.36 | *** join/#utah levi_ (n=levi@levi.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 00:30.20 | Kuyaedz | anyone familiar with spamassassin + postfix? |
| 00:42.47 | xbmodder_lappy | a match made in heaven? |
| 00:43.53 | Kuyaedz | I seem to have it configured to recognize spam (postmaster gets a notification of spam) but I can't get it to rewrite the header |
| 00:47.39 | *** join/#utah levi_ (n=levi@levi.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 00:54.24 | *** part/#utah mrpull (n=misterpu@xmjake.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 01:01.33 | *** join/#utah mheath[laptop] (n=mheath@c-67-182-231-23.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 01:19.43 | *** join/#utah mheath[laptop]_ (n=mheath@c-67-182-231-23.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 01:54.57 | QBFreak | is there an easy way to tell if a nick in a channel is registered or not? |
| 01:55.18 | maquis | QBFreak: that someone else has, or that may be free? |
| 01:55.25 | QBFreak | that someone else is using |
| 01:55.28 | maquis | (the short answer is yes... i'm just trying to see which way you want to see it) |
| 01:55.47 | QBFreak | to very slightly increase security on a bot |
| 01:55.49 | maquis | ok.. /whois <nick> should tell you whether that person is identified with nickserv |
| 01:56.14 | QBFreak | awesome, thanks |
| 01:56.32 | maquis | np |
| 02:12.06 | *** join/#utah mheath[laptop] (n=mheath@c-67-182-231-23.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 02:14.28 | mheath[laptop] | I'm kinda disappoined. Ubuntu didn't setup the wireless on this laptop. |
| 02:14.52 | maquis | mheath[laptop]: what card? |
| 02:15.47 | mheath[laptop] | maquis, It's a Broadcom |
| 02:16.21 | mheath[laptop] | It's supported in the main kernel line, but only very recently. |
| 02:16.50 | maquis | mheath[laptop]: maybe it'll be supported n dapper, then? |
| 02:17.03 | maquis | mheath[laptop]: what kind of lappy? |
| 02:17.49 | mheath[laptop] | maquis, My new laptop <3 It's a Compaq Presario V5000 |
| 02:18.19 | maquis | cool |
| 02:18.27 | mheath[laptop] | It detected everythign else perfectly |
| 02:18.29 | maquis | new comps are always fun :) |
| 02:18.46 | mheath[laptop] | Even the widescreen display... |
| 02:19.08 | maquis | nice |
| 02:20.18 | mheath[laptop] | This is the first computer I've gotten from a store. All the others I've gotten for free... |
| 02:20.28 | mheath[laptop] | My fastest computer was my 450 Mhz PIII before I got this one. |
| 02:20.53 | maquis | not bad for free |
| 02:21.38 | mheath[laptop] | This is a 1.6Mhz AMD Sempron with 512MB of RAM and an ATI Radeon Mobility powered widescreen display. |
| 02:21.41 | mheath[laptop] | It blows me away :) |
| 02:28.14 | mheath[laptop] | It blew me away how cheap this was, too. It was a graduation gift, though |
| 02:30.36 | *** join/#utah bigdog_ut (n=bigdog@207.135.132.13) |
| 02:36.04 | mheath[laptop] | I'm contemplating whether or not I should restart my World of Warcraft subscription now that I have a computer capable of playing it agian. |
| 02:44.53 | bigdog_ut | restart it |
| 02:49.46 | xbmodder_lappy | no |
| 02:49.51 | xbmodder_lappy | well actually yes |
| 02:50.20 | bigdog_ut | ~smack xbmodder_lappy |
| 02:50.28 | ibot | ACTION smacks xbmodder_lappy upside the head. |
| 02:50.55 | xbmodder_lappy | ~8ball |
| 02:50.57 | ibot | ACTION rolls the eight ball and gets: My reply is no |
| 02:50.58 | mheath[laptop] | I wonder if WoW supports my widescreen |
| 02:51.27 | bigdog_ut | it does |
| 02:51.39 | bigdog_ut | looks good on laptop too |
| 02:51.52 | bigdog_ut | got a friend that just installed it on a new dell wide |
| 02:52.04 | mheath[laptop] | I have a new Compaq wide :) |
| 02:52.11 | bigdog_ut | should look fine |
| 02:55.22 | *** join/#utah bigdog_ut (n=bigdog@207.135.132.13) |
| 02:56.34 | xbmodder_lappy | *mcnabb: what is your domain name? |
| 03:03.16 | mheath[laptop] | PFC Mole, who used to be involved with the youth group I'm involved with...that guy is freakin amazing. Perfect 300 on the Marine PFT, as well as company honor cadet....that blows me away. |
| 03:03.26 | mheath[laptop] | I wish I could do that well. Just know theres no way I will. |
| 03:08.07 | levi | mheath[laptop]: I thought you were going to be gone for 3 days. |
| 03:09.35 | mheath[laptop] | levi: I was thinking I'd get home a lot later tonight. |
| 03:09.50 | mheath[laptop] | Meaning I wouldn't have been back on here until tomorrow |
| 03:10.33 | mheath[laptop] | PFC Mole just amazes me........I guess it's just nice knowing that he embodies what I'm trying to be. |
| 03:15.14 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 03:15.52 | mheath[laptop] | Especially because I was feeling so frustrated with my recruters laziness, forgetfullness, and inattention to detail. |
| 03:18.33 | levi | elg: My wife made me watch The Importance of Being Earnest today. |
| 03:19.08 | findlay | the new or the old one? |
| 03:19.13 | elg | did you like it? |
| 03:19.22 | elg | i really liked that one |
| 03:19.28 | elg | very witty |
| 03:19.37 | elg | not just boring sap for 2 hours |
| 03:19.39 | levi | Yeah, it was a fun show. |
| 03:20.00 | levi | It helps that it was based on a famous play, I'm sure. |
| 03:20.21 | elg | yeah |
| 03:20.41 | levi | Just Like Heaven is in her Netflix queue, too. |
| 03:20.53 | levi | I can't believe you hadn't heard that song before. :) |
| 03:20.56 | mheath[laptop] | I'm tempted to get Netflix..... |
| 03:21.10 | mheath[laptop] | I keep saying stuff like that, though. "I'm tempted to get _______" |
| 03:21.26 | mheath[laptop] | I'm leaving in about a freakin month now |
| 03:21.48 | levi | Don't they have a free month-long trial? |
| 03:21.49 | elg | how do you like netflix? |
| 03:21.54 | levi | I love netflix. |
| 03:22.03 | elg | I mostly don't like the cure, actually |
| 03:22.10 | elg | it's likely I'd heard it without noticing it |
| 03:22.18 | elg | I do like about 4 of their songs |
| 03:22.23 | mheath[laptop] | Wow....no music, tv, computers, not even a freakin newspaper or book for 3 months.... |
| 03:22.27 | levi | It takes me forever to watch the movies I get, but my wife gets movies and watches them ALL THE TIME. |
| 03:22.53 | levi | mheath[laptop]: The absence of those things is not all that bad when you're busy with other things. |
| 03:23.22 | nick125 | xbmodder_lappy: ping |
| 03:23.46 | levi | elg: Yeah, they do have a few songs that are hard not to like. |
| 03:23.50 | levi | elg: Which ones? |
| 03:23.57 | elg | so how does it work? My main concern is that we like to watch movies like 3 days in a row and then go almost a week without watching any |
| 03:24.41 | elg | I like boys don't cry, just like heaven, friday I'm in love, and there's one about a picture I think |
| 03:24.42 | levi | elg: You put together a big queue of movies you like to watch. They send the first 3 to you (with the basic account). You can split the movies amongst several users of your account, too... Mel gets 2, I get 1. |
| 03:24.51 | mheath[laptop] | levi: I know. But its weird.....I enjoy beingv relatively informed on news and such....I won't know a thing that happens during that time... |
| 03:25.08 | xbmodder_lappy | nick125, |
| 03:25.21 | mheath[laptop] | If something major like we go to war with another country or something like 9/11 happens, they'll tell us. But nothing else. |
| 03:25.25 | nick125 | xbmodder_lappy: sup? |
| 03:25.28 | elg | mheath[laptop]: just think of all the news you'll get to read when you get home |
| 03:25.37 | mheath[laptop] | hehehe :) |
| 03:25.53 | elg | so you always have 3 out with the basic acct? |
| 03:26.02 | mheath[laptop] | The physical aspects are starting to get me worried..... |
| 03:26.48 | mheath[laptop] | Mainly because I've been sick this last week and a half, and have been feeling really horrible and unable to do as well as I normally do with my run and PT. Just got me down, I guess. |
| 03:26.48 | levi | elg: And you get to keep those 3 as long as you want, send them back whenever you're done, and you get whatever's next in your queue. |
| 03:26.51 | atoponce | ~wtf irl |
| 03:27.07 | levi | elg: You always pay the same amount per month, so it's a better deal the more you watch. |
| 03:27.20 | elg | what's the price? |
| 03:27.25 | levi | elg: The basic account is about $19 a month. |
| 03:27.37 | mheath[laptop] | I let myself down. We were supposed to be doing a run today, but I ended up not doing that. This cold just has me feeling so horrible and icky that, despite doing a 3 mile run every night usually, I could tell there was no way I was going to make that mile. |
| 03:27.55 | levi | It usually takes 2-3 days to get a new movie when you send one back. |
| 03:28.19 | elg | from when I pop it in the mailbox to when it comes back? |
| 03:28.19 | levi | And they come in return envelopes, so you don't pay postage or anything. |
| 03:28.26 | levi | elg: Yup. |
| 03:29.08 | mheath[laptop] | How is there selection? |
| 03:29.50 | elg | do they have a cheaper-than-basic plan? $20 might be ok during the summer, but in the schoolyear we generally rent about $5 worth a month |
| 03:30.35 | levi | mheath[laptop]: They have about everything that is currently in print. |
| 03:30.47 | levi | elg: Yes, there are cheaper plans. Not sure how cheap they go, though. |
| 03:31.26 | elg | if we decide to do it, would you get a referral bonus or anything? |
| 03:31.43 | levi | Hmm. Not sure. |
| 03:31.45 | elg | what about if you go out of town, can you arrange them sent somewhere else? |
| 03:31.47 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@thelances.net) |
| 03:31.56 | levi | I'm not sure about that either. |
| 03:32.08 | levi | For me, netflix replaces cable. |
| 03:32.33 | bonez39 | levi, so, per month...what do you spend on netflix? |
| 03:32.54 | levi | It's cheaper than a decent cable selection, and is less demanding. |
| 03:34.16 | elg | they have a 1-at-a-time $10 plan |
| 03:34.24 | elg | that might work for us. wonder how much hassle it is to switch plans. |
| 03:34.25 | levi | I pay ~20/mo. |
| 03:34.26 | bonez39 | I'd think the studios are counting on what usually happens..that people see first run in theaters..and then rent the video..and have cable too, or netflix... |
| 03:35.00 | bonez39 | so, $10 / month....and watch it, then send back and get another...and just keep it shuffling that way...... |
| 03:35.12 | levi | elg: I think plan-switching is an easy online selection. |
| 03:35.19 | mrpull-x | i had netflix some 7 years ago... at that time in 19/month for 5 movies at once |
| 03:35.19 | elg | we're going to utah in a week, so we'll probably wait until we get back, so if you find out if you would get a bonus let me know |
| 03:35.22 | mrpull-x | that was nice |
| 03:36.05 | elg | we waste like an hour trying to decide on a movie when we go to rent, so that'll be nice. :) |
| 03:36.30 | xbmodder_lappy | pong |
| 03:37.14 | levi | elg: That's the main reason I love netflix |
| 03:37.24 | mheath[laptop] | I'm going to go and see X-Men on Friday, I think. |
| 03:37.52 | elg | i'm glad we'll be in utah to go watch x-men. |
| 03:37.59 | levi | I add to my queue when I find a movie I'm interested in, and I never have to browse a rental store |
| 03:37.59 | elg | the theaters here aren't nearly as nice |
| 03:38.06 | elg | exactly |
| 03:38.36 | mheath[laptop] | Our theaters used to be pretty weak until we got a nice Cinemark theatre in the Newgate mall |
| 03:38.44 | levi | Utah has way better theaters than other places I've been. |
| 03:38.55 | mheath[laptop] | It has nice stadium seating, so the view is always perfect |
| 03:39.11 | mheath[laptop] | Comfortable seats, drink holders...The theaters are good, the sound is good.. |
| 03:39.13 | elg | yeah, utah theaters are the best I've been to |
| 03:39.33 | elg | and there's also more dollar theaters |
| 03:39.49 | mheath[laptop] | I don't go to movies very often, but when I do, I like to really enjoy the experience. |
| 03:40.05 | mheath[laptop] | I rent movies a lot, but theres just something nice about the theatre experience |
| 03:40.43 | elg | i enjoy going, but it's hard when you have to get a babysitter |
| 03:40.50 | elg | unless you've got lots of famly on hand |
| 03:41.27 | mheath[laptop] | Yeah. Wow....I feel for you, elg. |
| 03:41.45 | elg | well, it's not the end of the world. :) |
| 03:41.57 | mheath[laptop] | I'm not sure I ever want a family. I absolutely love kids, but taking care of them is inconvenient, and it seems like you'd get frustrated and tired of them pretty fast |
| 03:42.00 | elg | it just means you're more selective about which movies you see in the theaters |
| 03:42.08 | mheath[laptop] | haha |
| 03:42.18 | elg | when you're 18, you probably would |
| 03:42.23 | mheath[laptop] | Hmm, they have tickets for the midnight showing of x-men still. I'm not sure I want to go and stand in line, though. |
| 03:42.34 | elg | you'll stand in line in any case |
| 03:42.41 | elg | that whole weekend, unless you go to a matinee |
| 03:42.58 | elg | I've seen enough big-ticket movies in utah to know that. although ogden may be different |
| 03:43.26 | mheath[laptop] | I was thinking of going to a friday matinee. I'll probably have to work every night and on the weekends. |
| 03:44.04 | mheath[laptop] | Why are the World of Warcraft servers so croweded, slow, and unstable? |
| 03:44.15 | elg | levi: pictures of you I think is the name |
| 03:44.27 | mheath[laptop] | These people get tons of money in subscriptions... |
| 03:44.45 | levi | elg: Yeah, sounds right. |
| 03:45.19 | levi | o/~ I've been looking so long at these pictures of you that I almost believe that they're real o/~ |
| 03:45.32 | elg | the funny thing is that movie (just like heaven) combined two things that remind me of my first girlfriend: the cure and reese witherspoon |
| 03:46.02 | elg | reese reminds me of her, especially with the strawberry blonde hair in earnest, and her big sister was a cure fanatic |
| 03:46.42 | levi | I prefer not to be reminded of my first girlfriend. ;) |
| 03:47.55 | elg | that much fun? :) |
| 03:48.16 | elg | she moved away, so we never broke up and it just dissolved into friendship |
| 03:48.45 | elg | but when she got married it was too wierd and so I lost touch. I should write her |
| 03:50.26 | levi | She was way too young for me, not terribly cute, and really just wanted to make out, I think. It was just weird, and breaking up with her freed me up to date much better girls. :) |
| 03:51.19 | elg | hehe |
| 03:52.11 | elg | we were long distance from the getgo (45 minutes, but when you don't have a car..) |
| 03:52.21 | elg | and never even kissed |
| 03:52.59 | elg | total puppy love story. :) but we talked on the phone a lot and were good friends |
| 03:53.38 | levi | I never even got to the girlfriend stage with anyone until a few years ago. It was just a mental barrier I had to get past, but once I did, things were much better in my social life. |
| 03:53.54 | elg | really broke the ice for me for dating, so it's all good memories |
| 03:54.19 | elg | I was hoping to start dating her again when I got back to BYU after my mission |
| 03:54.24 | elg | but she got engaged that summer |
| 03:54.44 | elg | I was about six months too late I guess :) |
| 03:55.16 | levi | There were a few girls I saw somewhat regularly for long periods of time, but I wouldn't consider them girlfriends. |
| 03:55.47 | elg | mheath[laptop]: there's still time. |
| 03:55.48 | levi | I got set up by my mom and this girl's sister when I was staying with my parents in WA and she came to visit for a week or so. |
| 03:55.54 | elg | I had one other girlfriend and then my wife |
| 03:56.04 | mheath[laptop] | elg, I know :P |
| 03:56.15 | levi | She lived in Utah, so when I went back to school we did stuff together every couple of months or so. |
| 03:56.25 | mheath[laptop] | I'm thinking that me as a marine in uniform will be an attraction to more women, too. Thats the stereotype, at least :P |
| 03:56.33 | elg | that one dear johned me over email while I was on my mission. always been kinda proud of that |
| 03:56.33 | levi | Her dad was in MoTab, and she got tickets for the Christmas Concert every year for a few years. |
| 03:56.48 | elg | not many people would get a dear john over email, especially as a missionary, at that time |
| 03:56.57 | levi | Heh. |
| 03:57.13 | levi | Not too many people had email back then! |
| 03:57.17 | elg | the library where we were had a greenscreen that was connected to a "freenet" |
| 03:57.24 | elg | rhode island freenet |
| 03:57.31 | levi | Ah, those were the days. |
| 03:57.33 | elg | which was basically a shell account you could have for free |
| 03:57.38 | elg | pine |
| 03:58.05 | levi | I had a free shell account back in '93 or so from UVA's public access servers. |
| 03:58.33 | levi | That was the death knell for the local BBSes. |
| 03:59.05 | levi | Who needs BBSes when you have usenet, gopher, ftp, and archie? |
| 03:59.17 | findlay | http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=186302&cid=15376051 |
| 04:00.42 | elg | findlay: you gonna write it? |
| 04:01.11 | findlay | elg: I won't get in your way if you want to |
| 04:01.13 | levi | elg: You seen this? http://www.exploratorium.edu/music/exhibits/index.html |
| 04:01.14 | brac | [Science of Music: Online Exhibits: Exploratorium's Accidental Scientist] |
| 04:01.59 | elg | no |
| 04:05.27 | elg | pretty cool |
| 04:06.35 | elg | night |
| 04:12.10 | *** join/#utah bigdog_ut (n=bigdog@207.135.132.13) |
| 04:13.30 | findlay | night? |
| 04:16.34 | findlay | ~night |
| 04:16.37 | ibot | G'night findlay, get out of here. |
| 04:16.52 | findlay | ~jerk |
| 04:16.54 | ibot | i heard jerk is someone who needs something to do. |
| 04:17.06 | findlay | ibot: what are you going to do? |
| 04:17.08 | ibot | findlay: I think you lost me on that one |
| 04:18.32 | maquis | gah |
| 04:18.39 | maquis | why do i keep looking just after elg leaves? |
| 04:18.55 | findlay | heh |
| 04:18.59 | maquis | seriously! |
| 04:19.03 | maquis | i've done it twice now |
| 04:28.18 | findlay | ~do it twice |
| 04:28.29 | ibot | ACTION does it twice. |
| 04:28.29 | mrpull-x | stinking actiontec modem |
| 04:38.17 | *** join/#utah bigdog_ut (n=bigdog@207.135.132.13) |
| 04:40.05 | bonez39 | mrpull-, your modem giving you trouble? |
| 04:41.10 | mrpull-x | bonez39: it is a combination of things... i'm playing with a dapper beta |
| 04:41.22 | mrpull-x | and my wireless card keeps fading in and out |
| 04:41.54 | bonez39 | a dapper beta......hmmm I can certainly understand fading wireless |
| 04:41.54 | mrpull-x | and the DHCP settings I get from the actiontec are problematic |
| 04:42.16 | bonez39 | thus the name "craptiontec" |
| 04:42.18 | mrpull-x | i just changed it to static settings now |
| 04:42.45 | mrpull-x | yeah. i had a 678 in my hands... but I let it sit on my desk for so long I gave it back to its owner |
| 04:43.00 | bonez39 | I have been very fortunate with my Cisco 678 |
| 04:43.08 | mrpull-x | i usually run windows on my notebook, so the actiontech normally isn't a problem |
| 04:43.28 | mrpull-x | i've got a 675 in the basement... not that it is any help |
| 04:44.00 | bonez39 | no, I guess the 678 has an improved set of features... |
| 04:44.29 | mheath[laptop] | Good night. I graduate tomorrow :) |
| 04:44.57 | *** join/#utah xbmodder_lappy (i=nobody@xbmodder.us) |
| 04:45.00 | mrpull-x | mheath[laptop]: congrats. have fun and be safe! |
| 04:46.25 | mheath[laptop] | mrpull-x, Thanks. I will :) |
| 04:47.48 | findlay | microsoft can be so full of their nefariousness that it's just the kind of great amusement I like to enjoy on a Sunday evening |
| 05:01.27 | *** part/#utah bonez39 (n=aint@c-67-166-77-14.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 05:08.08 | *** join/#utah bigdog_ut (n=bigdog@207.135.132.13) |
| 05:18.57 | *** join/#utah bigdog_ut (n=bigdog@207.135.132.13) |
| 05:20.55 | tensai | ~rlart |
| 05:21.17 | findlay | tensai: are you still up? |
| 05:21.34 | tensai | findlay: I slept last night, between pages |
| 05:23.06 | levi | Yo |
| 05:23.19 | findlay | ~greetings |
| 05:23.21 | ibot | somebody said greetings was a term used by pompous people. |
| 05:23.49 | findlay | reminds me of a classic encounter in one of my physics classes |
| 05:25.03 | tensai | ~salutations |
| 05:25.09 | findlay | this surfer kid stereotype from California walks in a couple of minutes late. "Sup", and the professer says "Greetings" |
| 05:27.28 | findlay | If you knew Dr Wasserbeck, it would be way funnier |
| 05:27.28 | maquis | -lart tensai |
| 05:38.23 | findlay | ~smack |
| 05:39.13 | ibot | WAAAH! THAT HURTS! |
| 05:39.37 | findlay | talk about lag, ibot |
| 05:40.22 | findlay | unless TimRiker is playing tricks again (: |
| 05:41.34 | TimRiker | huh? wha? |
| 05:42.07 | TimRiker | oh. /me restarted bittorrent and it sinks the io. |
| 05:42.42 | xbmodder_lappy | findlay, greetings? |
| 05:43.23 | findlay | TimRiker: what kind of performance/benefit/utility do you think perl would get if it was more specifically typed? |
| 05:43.53 | *** join/#utah levi_ (n=levi@levi.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 05:45.50 | TimRiker | depends on the task. "use integer" might make a world of difference if you are doing lots of int stuff. |
| 05:46.14 | TimRiker | try it an see. :) |
| 05:46.26 | TimRiker | ~1+1 |
| 05:46.36 | ibot | i heard 1+1 is 3 for large values of 1 |
| 05:46.36 | findlay | I believe it |
| 05:46.45 | nick125 | mmm.. |
| 05:46.52 | nick125 | I should emerge -uDav world tonight.. |
| 05:46.55 | TimRiker | but most of blootbot is text and db stuff. so it' likely won't help there much. |
| 05:47.22 | nick125 | what DB? |
| 05:47.30 | findlay | nick125: I always tuck an -N in there too |
| 05:47.58 | nick125 | findlay: aah, I always forget that one : |
| 05:47.59 | nick125 | p |
| 05:48.03 | findlay | but I'm a control freak |
| 05:48.18 | findlay | probably berkley |
| 05:48.21 | nick125 | Total size of downloads: 594,170 kB |
| 05:48.29 | nick125 | woo.. |
| 05:51.55 | TimRiker | nick125: I use sqlite, but bloot can also use mysql. postgress needs a couple minor patches. |
| 05:52.08 | nick125 | aah |
| 05:52.10 | nick125 | sqlite == good |
| 05:52.36 | TimRiker | :) it's easy and when there's no real sharing going on, it does the job. |
| 05:53.13 | xbmodder_lappy | how do I get the point clicked on a panel/jframe? |
| 05:53.34 | findlay | xbmodder_lappy: with a torque wrench? |
| 05:53.59 | nick125 | of course! |
| 05:54.44 | nick125 | okay..enough useflag changes |
| 05:54.59 | nick125 | Total size of downloads: 714,782 kB |
| 05:56.20 | xbmodder_lappy | wow |
| 05:56.47 | nick125 | okay...the final total.. |
| 05:57.01 | nick125 | Total size of downloads: 725,626 kB |
| 05:57.06 | nick125 | 223 packages |
| 05:57.07 | nick125 | wee |
| 05:57.11 | findlay | can I have some? |
| 05:57.27 | nick125 | lol |
| 05:57.48 | xbmodder_lappy | ~share findlay |
| 05:58.03 | findlay | with gentoo, depending on what you serve and how you serve it, you could really cut out a lot of stuff |
| 05:58.49 | nick125 | yeah |
| 05:59.00 | nick125 | I got to use this 200GB hd somehow though |
| 05:59.27 | nick125 | xbmodder_lappy: to the labs! |
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| 06:03.28 | nick125 | xbmodder_lappy: join the labs channel |
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| 06:50.25 | xbmodder_lappy | /home/xbmodder/asciiland/src/asciiland/Board.java:56: <anonymous asciiland.Board$1> is not abstract and does not override abstract method mouseReleased(java.awt.event.MouseEvent) in java.awt.event.MouseListener |
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| 12:41.23 | sjansen | ~lart Edison, NJ |
| 12:43.19 | goozbach | ha ha |
| 12:43.27 | goozbach | gone back to Edison? |
| 12:43.29 | goozbach | ha ha |
| 12:43.42 | goozbach | get a better hotel this time? |
| 12:47.02 | sjansen | sorta |
| 12:47.39 | sjansen | Although while I'm in it, I can't help but wonder what happened to my brother sardine. |
| 12:48.33 | sjansen | Seriously, the room is _tiny_. The sink, including counter top, is about 1 foot square. |
| 12:51.34 | sjansen | I mean geez, what is it with the hotels in this area? |
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| 13:08.39 | goozbach | I stayed at the comfort suites |
| 13:08.43 | goozbach | I liked |
| 13:08.44 | goozbach | it |
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| 14:13.33 | emcnabb | sjansen: I usually do pretty well about finding were I need to go on trips, but not in Edison NJ. I could never figure out where in the heck I was (it didn't help that I was there in December and it was pitch-black by the time I left every day) |
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| 14:15.23 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 14:16.06 | emcnabb | ~lart Jayce^ |
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| 14:26.23 | goozbach | ~front |
| 14:29.02 | emcnabb | ~lart goozbach |
| 14:34.56 | redbeard1 | ~lart vegetarians |
| 14:37.24 | mheath[laptop] | My dad offered to take me to dinner tonight after graduation. I'm trying to decide where I should go. |
| 14:38.24 | redbeard1 | mheath[laptop]: where abouts do you live? |
| 14:38.46 | mheath[laptop] | redbeard1, Ogden, unforunately. Not much good eating up here. |
| 14:40.05 | redbeard1 | mheath[laptop]: isn't there a place called the manderin (sp?) up there? i know the pastry chef there, and can vouch for the desserts. never had the opprtunity to eat there, but i understand it's quite good. |
| 14:40.30 | goozbach | hmmm mandarin |
| 14:40.32 | goozbach | good stuff |
| 14:40.58 | mheath[laptop] | ABC Mandarin? |
| 14:41.01 | mheath[laptop] | Mandarin Palace? |
| 14:43.18 | redbeard1 | The Mandarin. that's what it's called. |
| 14:46.21 | goozbach | look on city search |
| 14:46.43 | redbeard1 | i can't vouch for it personally, but i can tell you that a bunch of friends have vouched for it personally. |
| 14:46.56 | redbeard1 | well, i can vouch for the desserts. angel's a great baker. |
| 14:47.29 | goozbach | I vouch for it |
| 14:47.44 | goozbach | second best chinese in the state (IMNSHO) |
| 14:48.03 | redbeard1 | goozbach: what's the best? |
| 14:57.43 | goozbach | The Station Restaruant in Milford UT |
| 14:57.50 | goozbach | (but I'm biased) |
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| 15:30.54 | Kuyaedz | what do ya'll suggest to convert dvd(.vob) to .avi ? (xp or linux) |
| 15:32.32 | QBFreak | goozbach: do they deliver to NC? :) |
| 15:32.45 | redbeard1 | QBFreak: NC? |
| 15:33.07 | QBFreak | North Carolina |
| 15:33.34 | QBFreak | which reminds me that I accidentally left my chinese food from saturday in the fridge at work |
| 15:34.08 | redbeard1 | QBFreak: where in NC are you? i have some (distant) cousins out there |
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| 15:34.47 | QBFreak | 45min east of Charlotte |
| 15:36.01 | redbeard1 | hey, i have a couple of friends in charlotte too. haven't talked to them in a while tho. |
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| 15:37.25 | redbeard1 | one of them goes by chef mongo. he looks like a mean version of harley. |
| 15:37.33 | ^Migs^ | does it need to be free software, Kuyaedz? |
| 15:38.21 | Kuyaedz | ^Migs^: no.. just need to cut 2min from a DVD and pop it into .avi/divx |
| 15:38.36 | ^Migs^ | excellent |
| 15:40.26 | elg | -lart vontrapp |
| 15:45.55 | Kuyaedz | I'm almost afraid to download any of these dvd to avi converters from my google search. Hard to trust random software + XP |
| 15:46.35 | ^Migs^ | why, if it gets the job done? |
| 15:47.01 | QBFreak | ^Migs^: you never know what else gets installed |
| 15:47.05 | Kuyaedz | just wondering if it's going to http://youtube.com/watch?v=QdHWt5ban8k&feature=Views&page=1&t=t&f=b |
| 15:47.09 | Kuyaedz | oops |
| 15:47.25 | Kuyaedz | Yeah, just afraid of what else comes with it |
| 15:47.35 | QBFreak | ouch |
| 15:47.40 | QBFreak | those things are not light |
| 15:47.54 | QBFreak | no pun intended |
| 15:47.54 | Kuyaedz | mistaken paste, but enjoy ;) |
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| 16:00.29 | elg | -lart redbeard1 |
| 16:00.45 | redbeard1 | i had mojo? |
| 16:00.49 | redbeard1 | give it back! |
| 16:02.08 | elg | never |
| 16:02.29 | redbeard1 | ~dog elg |
| 16:02.30 | ibot | ACTION stares at elg until elg whimpers and pees all over himself. |
| 16:03.04 | mheath[laptop] | Hmmm....I wish I had better control of the power saving settings on this laptop...... |
| 16:05.36 | levi_ | redbeard1: I love your latest post on the vegans. :) |
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| 16:06.49 | redbeard1 | freakin' vegans |
| 16:06.58 | elg | amen |
| 16:07.03 | levi_ | redbeard1: I'll bet there's a web forum out there where someone's raving about how awesome the corn chowder recipe is. |
| 16:07.45 | levi_ | I've read some raw foods web forums before, and it's pretty scary. |
| 16:07.48 | elg | the whole movement is about not eating meat. they care about nothing else |
| 16:08.24 | elg | otoh, I have an aunt and grandma who just don't like meat, but they're good cooks. the aunt is married to a hunter (what was she thinking?) and so she cooks a lot of meat, just doesn't eat it |
| 16:08.37 | levi_ | Yeah, but the somehow convince themselves that their awful recipes actually taste good. |
| 16:08.43 | levi_ | s/the/they |
| 16:08.50 | elg | they don't go around playing rabbit |
| 16:09.20 | elg | levi_: to them taste good == no meat |
| 16:09.32 | elg | (the nutty vegans) it's psychological |
| 16:09.34 | levi_ | Well, no meat, and not cooked. |
| 16:09.56 | elg | raw food is another layer on top :) |
| 16:10.05 | redbeard1 | you know, i don't doubt that vegan recipes CAN taste good, there's just so few that actually DO taste good |
| 16:10.10 | elg | there's a lot of foods that are better for us when cooked, though |
| 16:10.28 | levi_ | redbeard1: Oh yeah, I'm sure. It's just that the vegan fanatics don't come up with those recipes. |
| 16:10.44 | elg | they don't need to when they brainwash themselves into no meat == taste good |
| 16:10.59 | elg | it's easier to brainwash than learn to cook well |
| 16:12.05 | levi_ | My father-in-law is a bit nutty in the food department, too. He's convinced himself to like some pretty odd stuff. |
| 16:12.49 | levi_ | I think he's getting over that phase, though. At least he doesn't share his quack-medicine-food tips with us anymore. |
| 16:14.48 | redbeard1 | i picked up the french laundry cookbook this weekend. if there's anybody in this world who understands food, who just "gets it", it's thomas keller. |
| 16:16.25 | levi_ | I need to cook more. Last night I put together a lame simple chicken, rice, and cream of mushroom thing, and I burnt the rice. :/ |
| 16:18.43 | levi_ | And I grilled some hamburgers on Saturday and undercooked them. :/ |
| 16:19.07 | redbeard1 | i screwed up a rice recipe the other day. fortunately, the remake turned out okay. |
| 16:20.28 | redbeard1 | it was maybe a wee bit hotter than most people would like it tho |
| 16:21.29 | redbeard1 | note: 2 chipotles in adobe for one cup of rice is probably too much for most people. |
| 16:22.06 | elg | adobo? |
| 16:22.18 | elg | anything in adobe is probably too much for most people to eat |
| 16:22.43 | redbeard1 | elg: i think one might have been good. two was definitely too hot tho. i loved it. |
| 16:22.58 | elg | adobe is kind of crunch |
| 16:22.59 | elg | y |
| 16:23.24 | redbeard1 | crunchy? |
| 16:23.35 | elg | http://www.photo.net/photo/pcd1631/santa-fe-adobe-41.4.jpg |
| 16:23.56 | redbeard1 | ah, yes. adobo. not adobe. |
| 16:24.08 | elg | http://www.fssbirding.org.uk/Images/campinas%20forest%20104web.jpg |
| 16:24.12 | elg | ah, ok. :) |
| 16:24.40 | elg | ~cook sjansen |
| 16:24.41 | ibot | ACTION throws sjansen in a big pan with veggies inside and cooks sjansen on 350 for an hour |
| 16:25.37 | sjansen | elg: what's that image? I cleared the backlog |
| 16:25.50 | elg | just some pictures of adobe |
| 16:25.59 | sjansen | ah, ok |
| 16:26.18 | sjansen | I served my mission in Campinas, so the name made me curious. |
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| 16:41.51 | sjansen | ~rart |
| 16:41.54 | sjansen | ~rlart |
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| 16:56.01 | sjansen | http://www.thanksno.com/ |
| 16:56.02 | brac | [Thanks. No.] |
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| 17:16.25 | brac | [Music thing: vPipes: Super-hot MIDI bagpipes] |
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| 17:21.59 | redbeard1 | whoa. we just have a server split? |
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| 17:22.58 | levi_ | Stupid netsplits. |
| 17:23.24 | ^Migs^ | it keeps this place X-TREME |
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| 17:33.54 | redbeard1 | well, it's ice cream season. anyone got any good recipes? |
| 17:37.51 | ^Migs^ | http://upload.creamedgeezer.com/images/myspace_dumbkid.jpg |
| 17:39.24 | QBFreak | just what I needed to brighten my day |
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| 17:42.02 | goozbach | redbeard1: a great strawberry recipie |
| 17:42.16 | goozbach | as well as an awesome peach recipie |
| 17:42.26 | redbeard1 | oh man. i love peaches. |
| 17:42.30 | redbeard1 | and strawberries. |
| 17:42.42 | goozbach | i'll have to get those from my grandma this next week |
| 17:42.48 | goozbach | I'll make some, and post em. |
| 17:43.41 | redbeard1 | you know how i've been making all sorts of different kinds of rice lately? a couple of years ago i did that with cheesecakes. and now i plan to do the same with ice cream. and fudge. |
| 17:44.14 | redbeard1 | i need to walk across the street to gold's gyme and hand out samples. that would rule. |
| 17:45.03 | *** join/#utah flyboy^ (n=flyboy@xen.ryansimpkins.com) |
| 17:45.24 | goozbach | heh |
| 17:45.36 | goozbach | I'm shopping for a new ice cream maker right now |
| 17:45.41 | goozbach | any suggestions?\ |
| 17:50.33 | flyboy^ | Are there any liquid nitrogen powered ones? |
| 17:51.01 | flyboy^ | http://www.polsci.wvu.edu/Henry/Icecream/Icecream.html |
| 17:51.02 | brac | [Liquid Nitrogen Ice Cream] |
| 17:51.13 | findlay | what about solid helium? |
| 17:51.37 | QBFreak | what about an ice cream truck with NoS? |
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| 17:53.48 | flyboy^ | I saw a show on making ice cream one time... they said the secret is to freeze it VERY fast. Doing so will prevent ice crystals from forming and giving you sandpaper textured ice cream. |
| 17:54.02 | *** part/#utah phinux (n=phinux@iocane.cs.byu.edu) |
| 17:54.08 | flyboy^ | Freezing fast preserves the creamy texutre some how. |
| 17:54.30 | findlay | yeah |
| 17:54.36 | QBFreak | ~freeze findlay |
| 17:54.43 | QBFreak | ibot: you're so boring sometimes |
| 17:54.55 | findlay | maybe it has sometihing to do with preserving the consistency |
| 17:55.02 | redbeard1 | goozbach: i have two ice cream makers; one is the old fashioned kind where you add salt and ice, and has a motor. the other is the newfangled kind with the core that you freeze overnight before making it. |
| 17:56.26 | redbeard1 | the frozen core one is crap. it never sets up enough, and you can only use it once a day. the old-fashioned one is a little harder to use, and a little bit more finicky, but since i control the temperature, i can get it as cold as i want, and use it several times in a row. plus, it has twice the capacity. |
| 17:57.25 | flyboy^ | Isn't it possible to purchase high quality ice cream at relativly low cost now a days? |
| 17:57.50 | redbeard1 | flyboy^: well sure, but where's the fun in that? |
| 17:58.20 | flyboy^ | redbeard1: In eating it. |
| 17:58.25 | flyboy^ | Isn't that the point? :) |
| 17:58.42 | redbeard1 | flyboy^: well sure, there is that. but i love making it. |
| 17:59.10 | flyboy^ | Googling nitrogen ice cream returns some rather interesting results. |
| 17:59.13 | redbeard1 | it's just like with linux, i have the opportunity to control every aspect of it. then again, i also have to control every aspect of it. |
| 18:00.42 | Supaplex | .mx president fox is in utah today, according to ksl radio |
| 18:00.59 | flyboy^ | Should we ask him why he is suing the US? |
| 18:01.08 | flyboy^ | Or rather, what he hopes to gain from it? |
| 18:01.27 | Supaplex | I'm sure there's lots of things we should ask him |
| 18:02.05 | flyboy^ | Did you guys see that news article about that congressman that got busted accepting a $100k bribe from an FBI agent? |
| 18:02.08 | ^Migs^ | I need to get a new job, far away from the Ogden area |
| 18:02.20 | ^Migs^ | I need to move |
| 18:02.34 | Jayce^ | ~/o I need a new duck.. ~/o |
| 18:02.35 | ibot | ACTION sings with jayce^ |
| 18:02.37 | ^Migs^ | is anyone hiring down in Provo? |
| 18:02.55 | redbeard1 | ^Migs^: what kind of a job you looking for? |
| 18:02.56 | Supaplex | Albertsons is |
| 18:03.05 | ^Migs^ | tech. Web development. I do PHP, MySQL, Java... |
| 18:03.07 | Jayce^ | UNTD is hiring Perl folks |
| 18:03.12 | ^Migs^ | I'm pretty versatile, though |
| 18:03.17 | Jayce^ | mysql, isn't macnewbold's company hiring? |
| 18:03.18 | flyboy^ | ^Migs^: Tons of people are hiring. |
| 18:03.20 | ^Migs^ | as long as it's comparable to my current salary |
| 18:03.25 | ^Migs^ | what companies should I keep tabs on, flyboy? |
| 18:03.31 | ^Migs^ | I don't know any of the companies in that area |
| 18:03.36 | QBFreak | Jayce^: One that won't try to bite |
| 18:03.45 | flyboy^ | ^Migs^: I hear doba is BEGGING for people. Not sure specifically what they want though. |
| 18:03.50 | ^Migs^ | I just need to move my family away from my in-laws |
| 18:03.57 | Jayce^ | flyboy^, php iirc |
| 18:04.00 | ^Migs^ | cool |
| 18:04.09 | Jayce^ | omniture is usually looking too |
| 18:04.22 | flyboy^ | Yeah, come work with me. |
| 18:04.44 | flyboy^ | say I refered you and I get $$$. |
| 18:05.03 | redbeard1 | ^Migs^: i hear omniture interviews are painful tho. my landlord works there. |
| 18:05.18 | ^Migs^ | meh, I don't care how painful the interview is. I've had painful interviews before |
| 18:05.19 | flyboy^ | They are hard. I had 16 hours of total interviews. |
| 18:05.23 | flyboy^ | http://www.omniture.com/career/148 |
| 18:05.24 | ^Migs^ | whoa what the |
| 18:05.31 | ^Migs^ | you mean painfully LONG |
| 18:05.32 | ^Migs^ | okay |
| 18:05.38 | flyboy^ | ^Migs^: No. Hard. |
| 18:05.50 | flyboy^ | ^Migs^: Tooke me 1 hour to answer a single question. |
| 18:05.54 | ^Migs^ | heh |
| 18:06.00 | ^Migs^ | do they get all specific and stuff? |
| 18:06.11 | ^Migs^ | like you're taking a test |
| 18:06.27 | flyboy^ | ^Migs^: Mine wasn't like that, no. |
| 18:06.32 | redbeard1 | flyboy^: you know a dude there named bart? |
| 18:06.40 | ^Migs^ | what are the bennies like? |
| 18:06.46 | emcnabb | I just got the coolest SPAM subject line... EVER: "Ask me about microwaving cats for fun and profit!" |
| 18:06.49 | ^Migs^ | average starting salary? |
| 18:06.54 | QBFreak | emcnabb: heh! |
| 18:06.57 | ^Migs^ | hahaha |
| 18:07.00 | flyboy^ | redbeard1: Bard Elison? |
| 18:07.23 | flyboy^ | Sheesh, I need more caffine or something. |
| 18:07.39 | ^Migs^ | I'd love to work at my old company, Viranim |
| 18:08.00 | flyboy^ | I know a guy at tomax and he says it's cool there. |
| 18:08.20 | redbeard1 | flyboy^: yeah |
| 18:08.37 | redbeard1 | emcnabb: that's awesome! |
| 18:10.27 | emcnabb | It's the first time I've ever actually wanted to find out more |
| 18:10.50 | Supaplex | about microwaving cats? |
| 18:11.15 | redbeard1 | emcnabb: i must say, i'm certainly intrigued. |
| 18:11.18 | ^Migs^ | who DOESN'T dream about microwaving cats? |
| 18:11.24 | Supaplex | cats |
| 18:11.28 | ^Migs^ | I'd do it just for the fun, but for PROFIT!??!?! ZOMG |
| 18:11.33 | ^Migs^ | I wonder how profitable it is |
| 18:11.59 | Supaplex | what do you think they put in the /authentic/ ramen soup? |
| 18:12.03 | QBFreak | they key is to find someone who wants to get rid of the cat, say a neighbor or a spouse |
| 18:12.29 | ^Migs^ | agreed |
| 18:12.48 | ^Migs^ | people would probably pay good money to have someone else get rid of their cats |
| 18:13.07 | Supaplex | that's unless fungus pays them to spare it |
| 18:13.20 | fungus | Killing cats is evil. |
| 18:13.32 | Supaplex | what about evil cats? |
| 18:13.35 | QBFreak | and apparently profitable |
| 18:13.51 | fungus | paying people to kill cats is even more evil |
| 18:13.57 | emcnabb | http://evan.mcnabbs.org/tmp/cat_carrier.jpg |
| 18:14.01 | ^Migs^ | ? |
| 18:14.03 | emcnabb | back to work |
| 18:14.06 | ^Migs^ | what exactly is evil about it, fungus? |
| 18:14.06 | Uncle_Jesse | what are the bigger companies that cater to OSS in Utah out of curiosity? |
| 18:14.13 | redbeard1 | oh my. |
| 18:14.28 | fungus | Killing any animal (human or otherwise) is evil. |
| 18:14.34 | ^Migs^ | what about rabid sabre-tooth tigers? If one of those came into my house and started attacking my family, I would consider it my God-given RIGHT to kill it. |
| 18:14.43 | ^Migs^ | what about mosquitoes? |
| 18:14.49 | ^Migs^ | is it evil to kill mosquitoes? |
| 18:14.55 | fungus | yes |
| 18:14.56 | emcnabb | fungus: did you brush your teeth this morning? |
| 18:14.58 | ^Migs^ | and I bet you kill THOUSANDS of animals when you mow your lawn |
| 18:15.00 | emcnabb | killer! |
| 18:15.01 | ^Migs^ | are you evil? |
| 18:15.17 | emcnabb | how about a shower? |
| 18:15.22 | fungus | I said animals, not germs. |
| 18:15.27 | emcnabb | stop killing bacteria! |
| 18:15.29 | ^Migs^ | define "animal" then |
| 18:15.36 | Supaplex | oh, so one cell animals don't count |
| 18:15.40 | ^Migs^ | pfft |
| 18:15.47 | ^Migs^ | you're so bigoted, fungus |
| 18:15.58 | emcnabb | lots of those have more than one cell |
| 18:15.59 | fungus | Animals as labeled by the biological kingdom Animalia |
| 18:16.05 | ^Migs^ | you conveniently redefine what an "animal" is so it suits your purposes, and you don't feel guilty about mass murdering them. You know who else did that? HITLER. |
| 18:16.18 | ^Migs^ | okay, so you're going by manmade taxonomies |
| 18:16.29 | fungus | yes! |
| 18:16.34 | Uncle_Jesse | fungus: just curious, what defines it as "evil"? |
| 18:16.45 | Uncle_Jesse | I've always wondered that |
| 18:16.50 | fungus | What defines killing humans as evil? |
| 18:16.58 | QBFreak | Bill Gates, what else? :) |
| 18:17.00 | Uncle_Jesse | fungus: the Bible does |
| 18:17.17 | QBFreak | err bill gates was in response to Uncle_Jesse |
| 18:17.20 | ^Migs^ | killing humans in and of itself, independent of anything else, is not "evil", because what is considered evil is entirely cultural |
| 18:17.20 | Uncle_Jesse | As do most religious texts |
| 18:17.21 | fungus | I just don't draw the line so close as you do. |
| 18:17.24 | harleypig | cats are spawn of satan |
| 18:17.57 | fungus | I hope you come back as worm. |
| 18:18.07 | Uncle_Jesse | fungus: so are worms the same as Humans? |
| 18:18.11 | Supaplex | so you can kill him? |
| 18:18.18 | harleypig | I wouldn't mind coming back as a catfish. |
| 18:18.27 | redbeard1 | wow. this is getting brutal. i think i'm gonna bow out for a bit. |
| 18:18.32 | fungus | No, so he can understand what it is like to not be at the top of the food chain. |
| 18:18.48 | harleypig | fungus: humans are not at the top of the food chain, much as we'd like to believe. |
| 18:18.51 | ^Migs^ | fungus is such a hatemonger |
| 18:18.58 | Supaplex | no chocolate for fungus |
| 18:19.01 | Uncle_Jesse | fungus: so, is it a belief in reincarnation that brings to you this belief? |
| 18:19.09 | Uncle_Jesse | I'm just trying to get to the bottom of the belief |
| 18:19.12 | ^Migs^ | he keeps pathetically appealing to these manmade constructs to justify his brutal killings |
| 18:19.30 | harleypig | ^Migs^: What other constructs would you have him appeal to? |
| 18:19.37 | Uncle_Jesse | I respect it, personally, but just curious what motivates it |
| 18:19.39 | ^Migs^ | he should NOT have to appeal to anything |
| 18:19.40 | harleypig | I'm not aware of any construct that is not manmade |
| 18:19.44 | fungus | I don't believe in non-manmade constructs. |
| 18:19.47 | ^Migs^ | We should all just agree there is nothing inherently evil about killing cats |
| 18:20.06 | harleypig | and everything inherently *GOOD* about killing cats. |
| 18:20.11 | Uncle_Jesse | ^Migs^: unless you're Buddhist or Hindu |
| 18:20.12 | harleypig | preferably *BEFORE* they procreate. |
| 18:20.14 | fungus | Evil is the wrong word really. The correct word is immoral. |
| 18:20.16 | Supaplex | carnivores are meat eaters by design. I'm at the top of the food chain, so look out. :) |
| 18:20.38 | Supaplex | unless you're human (duh) |
| 18:20.46 | fungus | Supaplex: you don't have to eat meat, you choose to eat meat. |
| 18:20.54 | Supaplex | it's by design |
| 18:21.02 | Uncle_Jesse | we're omnivores, aren't we? |
| 18:21.19 | harleypig | fungus: I disagree ... the cravings get pretty bad after just a few days ... |
| 18:21.20 | findlay | what? huh? |
| 18:21.21 | ^Migs^ | define "immoral" |
| 18:21.27 | ^Migs^ | where do you get your definition of immoral? |
| 18:21.29 | fungus | So you have the intelligence and social responsibility to protect those less fortunate than yourself. |
| 18:21.31 | findlay | oh, I blame Canada. And sjansen |
| 18:21.35 | ^Migs^ | I can guarantee my morals aren't the same as yours |
| 18:21.42 | ^Migs^ | hmmm |
| 18:21.47 | harleypig | A cow is less fortunate than me? |
| 18:22.06 | ^Migs^ | I don't consider myself particularly "fortunate" |
| 18:22.09 | fungus | Why do you draw a line between human, and non-human. |
| 18:22.25 | Supaplex | you expect me to eat my own kind? pffft |
| 18:22.27 | fungus | less fortunate meaning, less intelligent. |
| 18:22.28 | harleypig | why do you *not* draw a line between human and not-huamn? |
| 18:22.34 | harleypig | fungus: that's specious |
| 18:23.00 | harleypig | fortunate has nothing to do with intelligence |
| 18:23.03 | fungus | Drawing a line so close as one's own species is wrong. |
| 18:23.12 | harleypig | Look how many stoopid rich people there are. |
| 18:23.16 | Uncle_Jesse | fungus: choice, walk on 2 legs, an opposing thumb, intelligence |
| 18:23.17 | ^Migs^ | what if I went back in time several million years and killed one of the progenitors of the human species, just before it became what we taxonomically classify as "human"? |
| 18:23.23 | ^Migs^ | would I be killing a human or would I be killing something else? |
| 18:23.32 | harleypig | ^Migs^: something else |
| 18:23.40 | Uncle_Jesse | that has nothing to do with it though IMO - if we're the same as animals, our bodies are built to eat meat |
| 18:23.41 | harleypig | it'd probably be pretty tasty too. |
| 18:23.46 | ^Migs^ | so at what point in time would I be killing a human? |
| 18:23.55 | Supaplex | you kill offspring by eatting seed/grain/nuts. isn't that just as bad? |
| 18:24.04 | Supaplex | those poor little seeds won't grow into anything. |
| 18:24.21 | findlay | think of the carrots |
| 18:24.23 | fungus | lol. My line is broad but not that broad. |
| 18:24.23 | Uncle_Jesse | Plants are the least fortunate of them all |
| 18:24.25 | findlay | and potatoes |
| 18:24.40 | Supaplex | because we all have to eat something. |
| 18:24.42 | Supaplex | case closed. |
| 18:24.46 | ^Migs^ | what makes them less fortunate? |
| 18:24.47 | Supaplex | ;) |
| 18:24.51 | ^Migs^ | do THEY consider themselves less fortunate? |
| 18:25.08 | ^Migs^ | what makes us "fortunate"? |
| 18:25.12 | Supaplex | who decides? :) |
| 18:25.17 | fungus | OK, I admit the term "less fortunate" was a bad one to use. |
| 18:25.28 | harleypig | Yay for situation morality/ethics! |
| 18:25.29 | ^Migs^ | you're using a lot of bad terms |
| 18:25.31 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 18:25.42 | ^Migs^ | why don't you just come out and say what you really mean? |
| 18:25.48 | harleypig | s/situational/situation/ |
| 18:25.48 | fungus | It is called compassion for all. |
| 18:25.49 | ^Migs^ | you know, without ambiguous language |
| 18:25.54 | ^Migs^ | define "compassion" |
| 18:26.13 | harleypig | It's quite possible to be compassionate about the animals we eat. |
| 18:26.15 | ^Migs^ | when I kill a kitten, couldn't I be just putting it out of its misery, seeing as how it's so "less fortunate" and all? |
| 18:26.31 | harleypig | That's not a good reason to kill a kitten. |
| 18:26.35 | ^Migs^ | why not? |
| 18:26.41 | harleypig | Killing it before it turns into a cat is a good reason. |
| 18:26.42 | fungus | Killing animals is causing suffering. And causing suffering is wrong. |
| 18:26.45 | Uncle_Jesse | I understand the responsibility to take care of those less fortunate and all, but as omnivorous creatures, our bodies are still most healthy with *some* meat in them |
| 18:26.59 | ^Migs^ | animals are euthanasized all the time due to them being in vast amounts of pain |
| 18:27.01 | neybar | http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=sponsor |
| 18:27.02 | brac | [For every animal you don't eat, I'm going to eat three.] |
| 18:27.07 | fungus | Uncle_Jesse: incorrect, you can be healthy w/o meat. |
| 18:27.10 | ^Migs^ | ? |
| 18:27.12 | harleypig | No, killing animals isn't causing suffering ... torturing is causing suffering. |
| 18:27.13 | ^Migs^ | no |
| 18:27.21 | harleypig | fungus: no you wouldn't |
| 18:27.24 | Uncle_Jesse | fungus: under what studies? |
| 18:27.26 | ^Migs^ | nobody, and I mean NOBODY, said anything about torturing cats |
| 18:27.32 | ^Migs^ | why would you even think that, fungus? You're sadistic. |
| 18:27.35 | harleypig | ^Migs^: I just did. |
| 18:27.53 | harleypig | And torturing cats is good for the soul. |
| 18:27.58 | Uncle_Jesse | The "humane" shelter puts down cats and dogs all the time to "put them out of their misery" |
| 18:28.02 | ^Migs^ | Agreed, harleypig |
| 18:28.02 | Uncle_Jesse | are they not "humane"? |
| 18:28.17 | fungus | killing = suffering in the sense of removing someone's life from from their body. |
| 18:28.17 | Supaplex | the jewish law behind kosher meat is quite compassionate. |
| 18:28.18 | ^Migs^ | I don't think fungus has a clue what he's talking about |
| 18:28.25 | elg | how could they be other than humane? it's in their name |
| 18:28.26 | Uncle_Jesse | what if we ate those animals? ;-) |
| 18:28.27 | ^Migs^ | um |
| 18:28.28 | harleypig | fungus: that's specious as well. |
| 18:28.31 | ^Migs^ | isn't that actually the opposite of suffering, fungus? |
| 18:28.44 | ^Migs^ | by removing someone's life from their body, you are ending their suffering |
| 18:28.52 | ^Migs^ | shouldn't that be considered a "compassionate" act? |
| 18:28.52 | fungus | no it isn't. |
| 18:28.55 | Uncle_Jesse | fungus: so what about plants - aren't we causing suffering in them as well? |
| 18:28.57 | Supaplex | unless that implys they continue to suffer after they are dead. |
| 18:29.10 | ^Migs^ | does grass scream when I walk on it? |
| 18:29.11 | harleypig | well, cats will continue to suffer |
| 18:29.20 | Uncle_Jesse | fungus: and what about when we have an overpopulation of a certain species? |
| 18:29.23 | ^Migs^ | right, harleypig. Our duty is to kill them so they stop suffering. |
| 18:29.24 | Supaplex | only for ^Migs^. ;) |
| 18:29.44 | fungus | Read anything by the Dalai Lama, and you might understand. |
| 18:29.53 | findlay | what about fungus? Do they suffer when we eat them? |
| 18:30.06 | Uncle_Jesse | fungus: ah - so your reasoning is because you're Buddhist. That's what I was trying to figure out. |
| 18:30.12 | harleypig | but we have to help prepare them for the coming suffering, so we need to get them used to as much suffering as we can before we dispatch them. |
| 18:30.12 | Uncle_Jesse | that's respectible |
| 18:30.17 | ^Migs^ | okay |
| 18:30.27 | ^Migs^ | so you're approaching this from a uniquely Buddhist perspective |
| 18:30.31 | harleypig | fungus: Are you really buddhist? |
| 18:30.32 | Uncle_Jesse | I understand now (mostly) |
| 18:30.45 | harleypig | Or at least, subscribe to that worldview? |
| 18:30.51 | ^Migs^ | Buddhism is interesting, but it's just another worldview |
| 18:30.56 | fungus | yes, mostly. I am buddhist. |
| 18:30.57 | neybar | Uncle_Jesse: he didn't say he was Buddhist. He said we can't possibly comprehend him because we haven't read anything by the Dalai Lama |
| 18:31.19 | Uncle_Jesse | It's just another way to overcome suffering IMO - however you have to do it in multiple lives instead of just one IIUC |
| 18:31.20 | harleypig | I think the Dalai Lama would disagree with that statement. |
| 18:31.21 | ^Migs^ | um |
| 18:31.22 | ^Migs^ | I have, actually |
| 18:31.35 | fungus | I disagree, you can comprehend me, if you open your minds and hearts a little. |
| 18:31.37 | ^Migs^ | I don't know why reading something by an author would instantly make me change my point of view |
| 18:31.41 | harleypig | Jonathan Livingston Seagull? |
| 18:31.41 | ^Migs^ | oh I see |
| 18:31.48 | ^Migs^ | so now we don't understand because we're supposedly "close-minded" |
| 18:32.01 | ^Migs^ | that's a really convenient thing to say. "You'll never understand anyway, because you're not as open-minded as I am" |
| 18:32.09 | harleypig | fungus: I understand the buddhist pov, I just disagree with some of the basic tenets. |
| 18:32.12 | Uncle_Jesse | veganism only makes sense if you believe in reincarnation |
| 18:32.13 | ^Migs^ | it doesn't prove anything, and thus there is no way to refute it |
| 18:32.17 | fungus | You are close minded because you refuse to accept any other definition of suffering. |
| 18:32.25 | harleypig | Uncle_Jesse: I would disagree with that statement. |
| 18:32.29 | Supaplex | I may not agree with it, but I can comprehend it. |
| 18:32.36 | Uncle_Jesse | harleypig: you think it makes sense elsewhere? |
| 18:32.40 | ^Migs^ | huh? |
| 18:32.52 | ^Migs^ | no, we were specifically asking for a definition of suffering. |
| 18:32.53 | harleypig | No, I think veganism doesn't make sense, even under buddhism. |
| 18:32.58 | ^Migs^ | that, by its nature, keeps an open mind. |
| 18:33.01 | Uncle_Jesse | If I believed in Buddhism I would agree with it |
| 18:33.09 | ^Migs^ | YOU are the close minded one here, fungus, because you have a very narrow, limited view of what suffering is |
| 18:33.12 | Uncle_Jesse | harleypig: under Buddhism of the pure sense, it makes sense |
| 18:33.21 | harleypig | I disagree. |
| 18:33.25 | ^Migs^ | you seem to think there's some universal truth, some unarguable definition of what it is. We are simply disagreeing. |
| 18:33.30 | Uncle_Jesse | harleypig: why do you say that? |
| 18:33.46 | harleypig | Obviously, the Dalai Lama and others think so, but I don't accept the logic train that brings that conclusion. |
| 18:33.54 | fungus | Killing a healthy happy creature is causing suffering to his "soul". |
| 18:34.07 | Uncle_Jesse | harleypig: so you don't accept Buddhism - therefore it doesn't make sense |
| 18:34.11 | ^Migs^ | in the view of a Buddhist |
| 18:34.18 | ^Migs^ | Some people don't believe in a "soul"\ |
| 18:34.23 | fungus | Killing a sickly, in pain, almost dead creature is different. |
| 18:34.26 | ^Migs^ | prove to me there's a soul |
| 18:34.37 | ^Migs^ | the burden of proof IS on your shoulders here |
| 18:34.38 | Uncle_Jesse | fungus: I thought it was all about reincarnation and that that creature could be "us" in a future life |
| 18:35.00 | harleypig | Uncle_Jesse: No, I don't agree with the logical conclusion. |
| 18:35.06 | fungus | Uncle_Jesse: yes, that is true |
| 18:35.14 | harleypig | -urls |
| 18:35.15 | brac | [2006/05/22 12:27:02] <neybar> http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=sponsor |
| 18:35.15 | brac | [2006/05/22 12:13:58] <emcnabb> http://evan.mcnabbs.org/tmp/cat_carrier.jpg |
| 18:35.15 | brac | [2006/05/22 12:05:24] <flyboy^> http://www.omniture.com/career/148 |
| 18:35.15 | brac | [2006/05/22 11:51:02] <flyboy^> http://www.polsci.wvu.edu/Henry/Icecream/Icecream.html |
| 18:35.38 | ^Migs^ | actually, it's not |
| 18:35.39 | Uncle_Jesse | fungus: I always respected that - never understood the idol worshiping they did there, but the underlying principles of the religion are good |
| 18:36.00 | ^Migs^ | you don't transform into different creatures in Buddhist reincarnation |
| 18:36.08 | ^Migs^ | not in most forms of it at least |
| 18:36.19 | fungus | idol worshiping is a bit odd. There are many different forms and aspects to buddhism, as there is in christianity. |
| 18:36.26 | Uncle_Jesse | My only issue was that you have to either be perfect in this life to overcome suffering, or keep trying in future lives in order to complete your function |
| 18:37.27 | harleypig | Uncle_Jesse: That is actually a draw for me. |
| 18:37.27 | fungus | Exactly, you can try in each life to improve yourself. It is part of the "path". |
| 18:37.53 | Supaplex | endless churn. huzzaa.. wait. |
| 18:38.24 | Uncle_Jesse | fungus: What draws me away from it is the Christian belief that you *can* overcome suffering in this life |
| 18:38.39 | harleypig | fungus: my only problem with that is, why can't I remember my past lives? What would the purpose be to forget what I'd learned? |
| 18:39.24 | goozbach | but what about frozen yougart? |
| 18:39.26 | Uncle_Jesse | I would rather do it all in this life and have it over with |
| 18:39.28 | harleypig | Why isn't it like a save game ... I made some stoopid mistakes, so in the next life I remember what I did and take a different path. |
| 18:39.38 | harleypig | goozbach: yougart? |
| 18:39.46 | Uncle_Jesse | harleypig: that too - how can you know what to get better at? |
| 18:39.46 | goozbach | yugurt |
| 18:40.00 | goozbach | half rotten milk |
| 18:40.00 | harleypig | yuckurt? |
| 18:40.01 | goozbach | yogurt |
| 18:40.02 | Uncle_Jesse | instead of picking up where you left off IIUC you have to start over every time |
| 18:40.03 | goozbach | !!! |
| 18:40.21 | fungus | Most of the teachings of Christ are very similar to buddhism. I agree with them. However the whole God thing doesn't really make sense to me. |
| 18:40.29 | Uncle_Jesse | Those that truly live all the rules of Buddhism however are very good people |
| 18:40.40 | harleypig | heh ... it doesn't make sense to *unless* their is a god. |
| 18:40.49 | Uncle_Jesse | fungus: that's why you have to find out if He exists |
| 18:40.49 | harleypig | (capitalization intentional) |
| 18:41.00 | Uncle_Jesse | if he's there he'll answer your prayers |
| 18:41.16 | fungus | Not really. Think about it. Being compassionite to all helps everyone immediately. it makes perfect sense. |
| 18:41.44 | harleypig | fungus: That's an incorrect and incomplete statement. |
| 18:41.46 | harleypig | err ... |
| 18:41.49 | harleypig | let me rephrase. |
| 18:41.54 | goozbach | milk, cream, eggs, vanilla, sugar, hmm |
| 18:41.59 | harleypig | fungus: I think that's an incorrect and incomplete statement. |
| 18:42.22 | harleypig | Being compassionate does not automatically help everyone, and certainly not immediately. |
| 18:42.44 | harleypig | Being compassionate to the soldier about to kill your family won't stop your family from being killed. |
| 18:43.01 | harleypig | [Utah]tristanbob: Umm ... I think I have to get back to work now ... |
| 18:43.16 | Uncle_Jesse | it takes a desire to know God exists to begin to know He exists. The great thing is, then you're not all on your own to be a better person |
| 18:43.37 | harleypig | Uncle_Jesse: You're not on your own in buddhism either. |
| 18:43.56 | Uncle_Jesse | harleypig: who helps you? |
| 18:44.14 | Uncle_Jesse | well, maybe God does |
| 18:44.54 | ^Migs^ | no |
| 18:45.14 | ^Migs^ | I can provide real-world examples of how being compassionate to all does NOT help everyone immediately |
| 18:45.17 | harleypig | Uncle_Jesse: No, in buddhism, everyone has the opportunity to help you along the way. |
| 18:45.24 | ^Migs^ | and don't try to use "think about it" as a basis for rationalizing falsehoods. |
| 18:45.56 | Uncle_Jesse | harleypig: only if everyone were to truly live it would that work though, and there is only so much a mortal, imperfect being can do for you though |
| 18:46.08 | harleypig | huh? |
| 18:46.42 | harleypig | I see no conflict between that aspect of buddhism and mormonism ... everyone has the *opportunity* to help along the way, and some do help. |
| 18:46.58 | harleypig | Even in the buddhist worldview you are not alone on your path. |
| 18:47.24 | Uncle_Jesse | harleypig: agreed - my point was that you don't have the example of a perfect being to lead that way |
| 18:47.32 | Uncle_Jesse | and help you along the way |
| 18:47.51 | harleypig | ? you need to read up on buddhism |
| 18:48.26 | ^Migs^ | how exactly do you claim to know about Buddhism again, Uncle_Jesse? |
| 18:48.29 | Uncle_Jesse | harleypig: where am I wrong? Buddha is "perfected", he wasn't perfect his entire life |
| 18:48.43 | Uncle_Jesse | ^Migs^: I've both studied it and taught Buddhists in Thailand |
| 18:48.52 | ^Migs^ | "studied it" |
| 18:48.56 | Uncle_Jesse | I've talked with quite a few monks too |
| 18:49.01 | harleypig | look up bodhi ... |
| 18:49.01 | Uncle_Jesse | I'm no expert though |
| 18:49.16 | ^Migs^ | for how long? in what kind of context? you've had Buddhist neighbors? You studied it in an academic environment? You pored over Buddhist texts? |
| 18:49.23 | ^Migs^ | talked with them about what? |
| 18:49.44 | harleypig | Y'know, this'll sound heretical, but using Jesus as an example is shaky for me. I have no concept of being perfect my entire life. |
| 18:50.02 | Uncle_Jesse | ^Migs^: Christianity. I was a missionary in Thailand for 2 years - had to learn about Buddhism while I was there if I was going to understand who I was teaching |
| 18:50.02 | ^Migs^ | I'm not perfect, but I'm pretty freakin awesome |
| 18:50.04 | harleypig | I'd rather look at someone who had issues throughout their lives and attained perfection |
| 18:50.23 | Uncle_Jesse | harleypig: that's the thing though - you don't have to because Jesus did |
| 18:50.25 | ^Migs^ | heh |
| 18:50.29 | ^Migs^ | did you have any success? |
| 18:50.52 | Uncle_Jesse | The great thing is that you have a living being there to help you out along the way that knows the right way |
| 18:50.53 | Supaplex | success is a process where you don't give up |
| 18:51.12 | Uncle_Jesse | ^Migs^: what do you mean by "success"? |
| 18:51.18 | Uncle_Jesse | I learned a lot if that's what you mean |
| 18:51.40 | harleypig | Uncle_Jesse: you're missing my oint. |
| 18:51.44 | harleypig | err ... s/oint/point/g |
| 18:51.54 | ^Migs^ | did you baptize a bunch of people? |
| 18:52.40 | Supaplex | Uncle_Jesse was asking for clarifcation (mostly) |
| 18:52.41 | Uncle_Jesse | ^Migs^: why does that matter? |
| 18:52.58 | ^Migs^ | why? Are you embarassed about something? |
| 18:53.02 | ^Migs^ | It was a simple question. |
| 18:53.46 | QBFreak | ^Migs^: its not about putting notches in your belt, its about planting seeds |
| 18:54.04 | goozbach | how is it that this channel always ends up in some sort of religious debate? |
| 18:54.08 | QBFreak | heh |
| 18:54.14 | Uncle_Jesse | ^Migs^: what QBFreak said. What does it have to do with your point? |
| 18:54.18 | ^Migs^ | fungus started it by saying it was evil to kill kittens |
| 18:54.35 | goozbach | I've killed a kitten before. |
| 18:54.38 | ^Migs^ | let's all just agree there's no way to verify whether it is or is not evil to kill kiteens |
| 18:54.44 | Uncle_Jesse | Supaplex: exactly - I was mainly just curious what the motivation to not eat meat was |
| 18:54.48 | ^Migs^ | s/kiteens/kittens/ |
| 18:54.50 | elg | kiteens is another story entirely |
| 18:55.10 | goozbach | of course it was deathy ill, infected, and being eaten alive by ants |
| 18:55.13 | Uncle_Jesse | ^Migs^: the problem with that is some of us disagree with your statement |
| 18:55.19 | Uncle_Jesse | I'll agree to be quiet from here on out though |
| 18:55.32 | ^Migs^ | yes, but we can all agree to disagree |
| 18:55.40 | QBFreak | laters all |
| 18:55.43 | Uncle_Jesse | agreed |
| 18:55.47 | elg | i can't! i can only disagree to agree |
| 18:55.48 | goozbach | I disagree to agree |
| 18:55.50 | ^Migs^ | the point is that, at this juncture, killing kittens is neither evil nor not evil |
| 18:56.05 | goozbach | is it good? |
| 18:56.10 | ^Migs^ | no |
| 18:56.20 | elg | does microsoft do it? |
| 18:56.23 | ^Migs^ | possibly |
| 18:56.28 | elg | then it's possibly evil |
| 18:56.30 | ^Migs^ | we can neither affirm nor deny that |
| 18:56.37 | elg | we need a mole |
| 18:56.44 | ^Migs^ | an evil mole? |
| 18:56.56 | elg | doesn't matter. moles are moles |
| 18:57.17 | *** join/#utah spr (n=spr@ramona.cs.byu.edu) |
| 18:57.43 | ^Migs^ | that is a good point |
| 18:57.51 | goozbach | MOLE! |
| 18:57.54 | goozbach | dirt digger |
| 18:58.42 | ^Migs^ | my mom-in-law is ticked off at my wife because she won't give her our visa card number |
| 18:58.53 | ^Migs^ | pffft |
| 18:59.10 | elg | write it on a cell phone |
| 18:59.25 | elg | in permanent marker, and send it back |
| 18:59.48 | ^Migs^ | :) |
| 19:01.27 | goozbach | ^Migs^: why does she want the Visa number? |
| 19:01.55 | elg | goozbach: she wants to pretend she won a shopping spree on a nickolodeon game show |
| 19:03.16 | goozbach | ohh game show!!! |
| 19:03.28 | goozbach | "tell them what they've won!!!" |
| 19:03.39 | goozbach | "A" |
| 19:03.45 | goozbach | "BRAND" |
| 19:03.49 | goozbach | "NEW" |
| 19:03.56 | goozbach | "CAR!!!" |
| 19:05.22 | elg | goozbach, COME ON DOWN!!! |
| 19:06.08 | goozbach | "and a 6night 5day stay in beautiful...." |
| 19:06.16 | goozbach | Moore Montana!!! |
| 19:06.35 | goozbach | where you will be sroundded by great gobs of NOTHING!!! |
| 19:07.27 | elg | better than great gobs of cockroaches |
| 19:07.45 | Supaplex | I think fungus fell asleep or something. :) |
| 19:07.56 | ^Migs^ | goozbach: So she can buy more of her drugs |
| 19:08.02 | ^Migs^ | meh |
| 19:08.05 | ^Migs^ | she's done this before. |
| 19:08.20 | ^Migs^ | A few years ago she called my wife and wanted her social security number so she could open a credit card at Jafra. My wife was in tears. |
| 19:09.23 | goozbach | wow! what a winner! |
| 19:14.08 | *** join/#utah EvilHerbivore (n=dave@c-67-161-208-210.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 19:15.08 | Supaplex | fungus: don't look now, but there's an evil herbivore among us |
| 19:15.18 | goozbach | now here's someone who proclaims to be evil! |
| 19:16.06 | ^Migs^ | KILL IT |
| 19:16.22 | goozbach | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:16.33 | ^Migs^ | is the act of killing something evil considered "evil"? |
| 19:17.52 | EvilHerbivore | Depends on how evil I would say? |
| 19:18.09 | ^Migs^ | ? |
| 19:18.24 | ^Migs^ | is the evilness of the killer inversely proportional to the victim then? |
| 19:18.35 | ^Migs^ | s/victim/evilness of the victim/ |
| 19:18.49 | EvilHerbivore | Well, killing something is evil. If the thing you are killing is *more* evil than you... maybe it's alright? |
| 19:19.02 | EvilHerbivore | Watch "The Boondock Saints" and it will all become clear... |
| 19:19.06 | ^Migs^ | that makes sense |
| 19:19.41 | ^Migs^ | so the trick is to make sure the person you're killing is actually more evil than you |
| 19:19.53 | EvilHerbivore | So, like killing a rabid, 3 horned flesh eating monster is cool.. but not something like, say, a 3rd grade teacher. |
| 19:19.59 | EvilHerbivore | Exactly |
| 19:20.09 | ^Migs^ | ? |
| 19:20.19 | ^Migs^ | why not a 3rd grade teacher, if he/she's more evil than me? |
| 19:21.02 | EvilHerbivore | well, generally 3rd grade teacher's aren't exactly evil. I guess if your 3rd grade teacher regularly turned you over and rammed a ruler up your ass.. then yeah, fair game. |
| 19:21.22 | ^Migs^ | you're giving pretty extreme examples of evilness |
| 19:21.29 | ^Migs^ | what if the teacher is just slightly more evil than me? |
| 19:21.37 | EvilHerbivore | Well, how evil are you? |
| 19:21.45 | nick125_lappy | hmm.. |
| 19:22.15 | spr | ~ping Jayce^ |
| 19:22.16 | ibot | pong Jayce^ |
| 19:22.17 | EvilHerbivore | It's all subjective I guess.. but, you're talking on IRC. According to a lot of people I know, that makes you evil already |
| 19:23.21 | neybar | lol |
| 19:23.21 | ^Migs^ | that doesn't matter, really. If it's okay to kill anyone who's more evil than you, but there's some stipulations about how MUCH more evil, at what point of a difference in evilness does it cross the threshold from being not okay to being okay? |
| 19:23.21 | ^Migs^ | we need a way to quantify evil, it seems |
| 19:23.41 | Supaplex | subjective vs objective humm... that's the fun part. |
| 19:23.42 | EvilHerbivore | Quantify evil... What would the unit's be? Saddams? Evilinos? |
| 19:23.46 | goozbach | ~evilometer |
| 19:23.52 | goozbach | dang! |
| 19:24.12 | ^Migs^ | I think we need to set up a panel of judges to determine each person's evilness quotient |
| 19:24.20 | ^Migs^ | I volunteer myself for being on the panel |
| 19:24.36 | EvilHerbivore | ... how do we know that you're not evil and biased? |
| 19:24.46 | EvilHerbivore | Why should I vote for you? |
| 19:24.52 | ^Migs^ | so we're holding elections? |
| 19:24.59 | ^Migs^ | yes, that would be the best way |
| 19:25.02 | EvilHerbivore | This is a democracy after all... |
| 19:25.11 | ^Migs^ | what is a democracy? |
| 19:25.20 | ^Migs^ | how do you know this isn't being set up in a non-democratic nation? |
| 19:25.41 | ^Migs^ | okay, so we elect representatives to serve on the evilness panel |
| 19:26.18 | EvilHerbivore | #@$@ .. my kvm just went insane. |
| 19:26.23 | goozbach | this(#utah) is NOT a democracy |
| 19:26.24 | ^Migs^ | I think the determining factors for however they decide to come up with the evilness quotient should be revisted every 3 years or so |
| 19:26.40 | ^Migs^ | I think he was talking about this.nation, not this.channel |
| 19:26.53 | neybar | speaking of evil. everyone needs to watch this right now... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPVh0rZCti0 |
| 19:26.55 | EvilHerbivore | ^Migs^: Do you have a government job? |
| 19:27.02 | goozbach | it is ruled by the ops who have arbitrary control over everything you see. |
| 19:27.28 | ^Migs^ | yes |
| 19:27.44 | findlay | you mean the ops are screening me from things that would scar me the rest of my life? |
| 19:27.54 | EvilHerbivore | Well, this.channel == utah == this.nation.state .. so.. democracy. |
| 19:28.00 | EvilHerbivore | lol |
| 19:28.02 | ^Migs^ | or perhaps they're only allowing things that would scar you for the rest of your life |
| 19:28.42 | goozbach | buhahaha |
| 19:28.57 | goozbach | I mean ... nothing to see here... move along |
| 19:29.14 | EvilHerbivore | sometimes I wish I worked for the county, so I could just lean on a shovel all day and get paid $25 hr |
| 19:29.41 | ^Migs^ | I get paid for just sitting around being awesome |
| 19:29.48 | EvilHerbivore | rofl |
| 19:29.53 | flyboy^ | EvilHerbivore: Sup |
| 19:30.13 | findlay | echo max > /dev/sound/volume |
| 19:30.15 | goozbach | I put my pants on just like you, one leg at a time. |
| 19:30.47 | ^Migs^ | hmmm |
| 19:30.54 | ^Migs^ | I usually take a flying backward leap at my pants to put them on |
| 19:31.40 | flyboy^ | I sew the pants on around me, and rip them off at night in a manly fashion. |
| 19:32.01 | EvilHerbivore | lol |
| 19:32.07 | ^Migs^ | that makes more sense than my method, I'll have to try that |
| 19:32.11 | flyboy^ | "When you are a man, sometimes you will wear streachy pants in your room. It is for fun." - Nacho Libre |
| 19:32.19 | Uncle_Jesse | face it - we all get paid to sit and talk in irc all day |
| 19:32.39 | findlay | indeed |
| 19:32.57 | flyboy^ | I can't wait for that movie to come out - it looks hilarious. |
| 19:33.07 | goozbach | "except when my pants are on, I make gold records" |
| 19:33.15 | goozbach | "more cowbell" |
| 19:33.18 | goozbach | ~cowbell |
| 19:33.27 | goozbach | ibot: you're failing me |
| 19:33.36 | goozbach | ~failure |
| 19:35.36 | flyboy^ | ibot: ping |
| 19:35.37 | ibot | pong |
| 19:35.42 | flyboy^ | Okay, he's awake. |
| 19:35.47 | harleypig | http://store.theworstpageintheuniverse.com/shirts.html#PARENT |
| 19:35.49 | brac | [Shirts] |
| 19:35.51 | goozbach | she doesn't like me |
| 19:35.54 | harleypig | sfw |
| 19:36.02 | goozbach | harleypig: that's going to be my parenting style |
| 19:36.48 | harleypig | I nearly fell off my chair. |
| 19:37.00 | harleypig | And this is from maddox? I gotta meet him. |
| 19:37.16 | goozbach | alpabet of manilness is out now |
| 19:37.22 | ^Migs^ | yeah |
| 19:37.36 | ^Migs^ | I like that "Vote Regressive: Against Abortionl, For Killing Babies" |
| 19:37.36 | harleypig | yeah, I saw that. |
| 19:38.06 | harleypig | Gives me hope for 'MakeTheBadManStop.biz' |
| 19:38.28 | harleypig | I still need to find someone willing to take the pictures though. |
| 19:39.05 | ^Migs^ | what's your idea there, harleypig? |
| 19:39.20 | harleypig | ^Migs^: Have you met me? or seen a picture of me? |
| 19:39.24 | *** join/#utah Kuyaedz (n=Crister@65.106.115.194.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 19:39.58 | ^Migs^ | no |
| 19:40.04 | goozbach | heh |
| 19:40.22 | harleypig | Ok. I'm about 6', weigh about 400 lbs and have long hair and a long beard. |
| 19:40.25 | Uncle_Jesse | harleypig: what do you mean? I think you're pretty sexy if I can say so myself ;-) |
| 19:40.42 | Uncle_Jesse | well, the ladies do at least |
| 19:40.43 | harleypig | Now. Have you seen the pciture of Marilyn Monroe standing over the grate, blowing her skirt up.? |
| 19:41.10 | ^Migs^ | HAHAHAHA |
| 19:41.25 | harleypig | MakeTheBadManStop will have t-shirts and posters of me in that pose with Make The Bad Man Stop emblazoned on it. |
| 19:41.29 | ^Migs^ | that'd make a great birthday present |
| 19:41.34 | harleypig | Of course, other settings are possible as well. |
| 19:41.41 | Uncle_Jesse | crap |
| 19:41.42 | ^Migs^ | oh yeah, there's enormous possibility there |
| 19:41.45 | harleypig | Greta Gable ... |
| 19:42.23 | ^Migs^ | you could redo poses from classic movies |
| 19:42.50 | ^Migs^ | man |
| 19:42.52 | harleypig | Yeah that's what I had in mind |
| 19:42.57 | ^Migs^ | I wish I was a big hairy fat guy |
| 19:43.06 | ^Migs^ | I could reign with terror |
| 19:43.08 | harleypig | Are you a bear lover? |
| 19:43.37 | harleypig | ~lart harleypig for dragging strange fetishes into #utah |
| 19:43.46 | goozbach | harleypig: how about the coppertone kid pose? |
| 19:44.14 | harleypig | :D |
| 19:44.19 | harleypig | RIGHT ON! |
| 19:45.40 | harleypig | I wonder how far I'd get before I got sued |
| 19:45.51 | Supaplex | depends on how much evil is involved |
| 19:46.03 | harleypig | Not pornographic. |
| 19:47.04 | harleypig | Hmmm ... how much ground meat would I need to get the dog to pull on my shorts ... |
| 19:48.54 | goozbach | *shudder* |
| 19:49.00 | goozbach | that line is classic |
| 19:50.19 | Supaplex | let's hope he's only after the shorts :) |
| 19:51.50 | Uncle_Jesse | ~seen harleypig |
| 19:51.57 | ibot | harleypig is currently on #utah. Has said a total of 197 messages. Is idling for 4m 53s, last said: 'Hmmm ... how much ground meat would I need to get the dog to pull on my shorts ...'. |
| 19:51.57 | harleypig | We could do it in such a way that looks like the shorts came off right after the camera clicked, making people think they dodged a bullet. |
| 19:52.23 | goozbach | oh man!!! |
| 19:52.27 | Uncle_Jesse | we need to set that as the topic |
| 19:52.31 | harleypig | heh |
| 19:53.34 | Kuyaedz | will I see a performance decrease with increased entries in an iptables firewall? |
| 19:54.02 | Supaplex | less packets will flow! |
| 19:55.49 | Kuyaedz | I've got a whitelist/blacklist setup with an iptables script. I just hope the machine doesn't start slowing down with more & more entries. |
| 19:57.41 | lars-ut-away | Kuyaedz: check out http://pfsense.com & ##pfsense - more dev effort than any other open source firewall currently |
| 19:59.23 | Kuyaedz | looks promising. hopefully its intuitive to use |
| 19:59.35 | fungus | yay, plus pf rulez! :P |
| 20:18.15 | *** join/#utah mheath[laptop] (n=mheath@c-67-182-231-23.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 20:25.15 | mheath[laptop] | Can anyone recomend a good mouse for one handed, deskless operation? |
| 20:25.23 | mheath[laptop] | Something with a trackball or such, maybe |
| 20:25.57 | mheath[laptop] | I'm looking for a good mouse for gaming on my laptop....The trackpad just doesn't do it. I don't want a typical mouse, though, because I don't want to be limited to places with a flat desk |
| 20:31.29 | Uncle_Jesse | mheath[laptop]: you might try one of the gyroscopic mice - they're a bit hard to use though |
| 20:31.51 | goozbach | nothing better for gaming than a high quality ball mouse |
| 20:32.05 | goozbach | I need some gaming time |
| 20:32.11 | Uncle_Jesse | yeah - gyro wouldn't be best for gaming I don't think, but then again the Wii is doing it |
| 20:32.26 | goozbach | time to start telling the GF to go home a little eariler |
| 20:33.00 | Uncle_Jesse | goozbach: or get her to game with you ;-) |
| 20:33.04 | mheath[laptop] | I saw a trackball thing a Walmart that I liked. It was wired, though.... |
| 20:33.46 | Uncle_Jesse | mheath[laptop]: you could always go with the joystick or controlpad option |
| 20:33.59 | Uncle_Jesse | but that would be for gaming only |
| 20:34.13 | mheath[laptop] | Uncle_Jesse, well, I play a lot of first person shooters, half-life style control |
| 20:34.21 | mheath[laptop] | Keyboard movement, perspective and fire with mouse |
| 20:34.46 | Uncle_Jesse | mheath[laptop]: you may like gyro then - I've never tried it in a game though |
| 20:35.05 | Uncle_Jesse | the gyro could be used to look left, right, and fire |
| 20:35.20 | Uncle_Jesse | that's how the wii is going to do it |
| 20:35.51 | Uncle_Jesse | oh, and think lightsabers :-) |
| 20:35.55 | Uncle_Jesse | or tennis |
| 20:36.12 | Uncle_Jesse | or knocking someone on the head with a crowbar |
| 20:42.42 | *** join/#utah ScytheBlade1 (n=Death@about/pxe/ScytheBlade1) |
| 21:04.03 | harleypig | neener |
| 21:08.51 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 21:09.05 | ^Migs^ | wb fungus, you mass murderer |
| 21:09.27 | spr | anyone know if Jayce^ is alive? |
| 21:11.56 | redbeard1 | Jayce^ left early |
| 21:12.40 | *** join/#utah nick125 (n=nick@dsl093-220-003.abq1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 21:13.04 | *** part/#utah ^Migs^ (n=Migs@205.122.50.21) |
| 21:13.48 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=fungus@firebat.aros.net) |
| 21:14.26 | elg | what a jaycer |
| 21:15.43 | *** join/#utah bonez41 (n=aint@c-67-166-77-14.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 21:18.38 | redbeard1 | no kidding |
| 21:20.03 | bonez41 | elg, how soon til you're Doctor Hans? |
| 21:21.11 | findlay | "I'm a doctor." "Of what?" "Music." "Can you fix a hifi?" "No." "Then shut up." |
| 21:22.11 | bonez41 | findlay, easy ... easy........ |
| 21:22.40 | findlay | bonez41: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0069495/ |
| 21:22.42 | brac | [What's Up, Doc? (1972)] |
| 21:22.45 | bonez41 | I was reading on elg's web site...that he's now pursuing his PhD... thus my question..... |
| 21:23.21 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 21:24.03 | redbeard1 | http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635209154,00.html |
| 21:24.04 | brac | [deseretnews.com | Is S. Korean dish healthful or risky?] |
| 21:27.04 | elg | another couple of years |
| 21:27.40 | elg | heh. I can think of a lot of things that will help astronats keep from getting constipated in space |
| 21:29.17 | redbeard1 | yeah, but we're talking kimchee here! it's just so fabulous anyway! |
| 21:29.34 | elg | mountain stream water is fabulous too |
| 21:29.45 | redbeard1 | yeah, but it's not kimchi |
| 21:29.50 | redbeard1 | which apparently i can't spell |
| 21:33.52 | levi_ | elg: Did you ever look at that Denotational Semantics book I found for you? |
| 21:34.00 | elg | no |
| 21:34.17 | levi_ | I've just started looking through it. Looks interesting so far. |
| 21:35.35 | elg | what's the link, I think I lost it |
| 21:35.53 | levi_ | http://www.cis.ksu.edu/~schmidt/text/densem.html |
| 21:36.43 | redbeard1 | mmm, bacon |
| 21:37.15 | redbeard1 | i don't know what this allyn stuff is, but the bacon sounds good |
| 21:39.42 | elg | the term "denotational semantics" is frighteningly jargony |
| 21:39.57 | findlay | sounds fancy |
| 21:40.27 | levi_ | elg: Welcome to formal theory. |
| 21:40.58 | levi_ | elg: Chapter 0 explains what it means, though. |
| 21:41.11 | findlay | is there a chapter i? |
| 21:41.23 | levi_ | And how it differes from operational and axiomatic semantics. |
| 21:41.56 | levi_ | As well as why you'd bother putting together a denotational semantic model of a language anyway. |
| 21:42.56 | levi_ | answer: so you can hope to create multiple implementations that actually work the same. |
| 21:43.18 | elg | man, I just love this stats book |
| 21:44.11 | elg | http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0393970833/103-6915425-0577421?v=glance&n=283155 |
| 21:44.59 | redbeard1 | elg: you know there's only three kinds of lies, right? |
| 21:45.17 | elg | statistically speaking there may be more or less |
| 21:46.45 | levi_ | elg: Sounds good, aside from the review from the teacher who says it leaves students ill-prepared for higher stats classes. |
| 21:47.03 | elg | i wouldn't use it as a first class in stats for stats majors |
| 21:47.17 | redbeard1 | elg: "There's only three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics." - Mark Twain |
| 21:47.18 | elg | but the rest of us just want a practical approach to stats. duh |
| 21:47.55 | elg | i got a kick out of the "IDE or not" discussion on slashdot yesterday |
| 21:48.07 | levi_ | Sounds nice, if you can get it for less than full price. |
| 21:48.25 | Hhhhh | elg, why? I find it an inteersting topic on education |
| 21:48.26 | elg | you can always get them for less than full price. :) |
| 21:48.56 | elg | Hhhhh: the topic is interesting. the amusement comes from /.ers on both sides who think the answer is obvious |
| 21:49.04 | Hhhhh | elg, true that |
| 21:49.13 | levi_ | Speaking of computer science education, I scored a copy of the proceedings of the 2006 SIGCSE conference. |
| 21:50.13 | elg | i think it's very dependent on the goals of the course, but mostly I say let the students choose. |
| 21:50.36 | elg | introduce them to one if you must, but don't require them to use an IDE or not |
| 21:51.26 | levi_ | I think that's a reasonable way to do it. |
| 21:51.31 | elg | unless the express purpose (or one of them) is to gain proficiency in an ide, or to gain proficiency without IDEs. the latter is something I believe is important, but shouldn't be thrust upon someone in what purports to be a programming class |
| 21:51.55 | levi_ | So long as you can ensure that the IDEs are not automating something that you want to make sure the students learn about. |
| 21:51.59 | elg | i would give one requirement. Notepad is not allowed |
| 21:52.05 | elg | true |
| 21:52.46 | Hhhhh | I'd go by having them do a lab using CLI only, then have them do a lab using an IDE only, and the rest of the labs is up to them |
| 21:52.51 | levi_ | An advanced IDE like Eclipse for Java programming can really hide a lot of important details. |
| 21:53.02 | elg | i like Hhhhh's idea |
| 21:53.10 | Hhhhh | and just for the introductory class only |
| 21:53.43 | levi_ | Well, I think that as long as it's made clear what things the students need to be able to do and they're tested on those, it's not a big deal how they do the programming. |
| 21:53.44 | elg | one of my favorite posts was a guy who was teaching a course as adjunct, at the senior CS level, and the students didn't know what a compiler was really |
| 21:54.04 | elg | so he told them they had to submit tarballs with makefiles that compile on unix (they had access to x terminals) |
| 21:54.14 | elg | most of the class dropped out, but the rest learned. :) |
| 21:54.18 | elg | that's scary though |
| 21:54.20 | Hhhhh | man, that's sad |
| 21:54.59 | Hhhhh | I think people have to be exposed to all those development tools before they can make an informed decision |
| 21:56.09 | levi_ | I think students should be expected to be able to pick up infrastructure stuff on their own. |
| 21:56.35 | elg | yes, but they need at least one kick in the pants to get them to go look |
| 21:56.48 | elg | I saw a lot of CS students at BYU still using notepad |
| 21:57.19 | levi_ | I.e., by the senior level, you /should/ be able to ask them to write their assignments in some language they're unfamiliar with, and expect that they can pick it up and use it without actually giving lecture time to it. |
| 21:57.22 | elg | i on the other hand explored many options as I wasn't happy with Jpad |
| 21:58.08 | levi_ | Not that it would necessarily be the best way to do things, unless the goal was specifically to broaden their language knowledge. |
| 21:59.14 | levi_ | Of course, I think a majority of the students would thoroughly hate such a course, as evidenced by CS330 at BYU. |
| 21:59.56 | elg | students always hate new languages. they need it though |
| 22:00.19 | levi_ | I agree. |
| 22:00.32 | elg | if one thing is certain, it's that times change and you have to pick up new languages |
| 22:00.44 | levi_ | They especially need mind-expanding ones, like Scheme. Especially if they're only used to C and Java. |
| 22:00.50 | elg | plus, doing things in different languages brings home some fundamentals |
| 22:01.17 | levi_ | It's unfortunate that exposing them to Scheme in an environment like CS330 often makes them hate it, though. |
| 22:05.23 | levi_ | At least a lot of the coolness of Scheme and Smalltalk lives on in Ruby. That does give me a small bit of comfort when I see people maligning my favorite languages. ;) |
| 22:10.19 | levi_ | elg: I was worried that this denotational semantics book was going to be over my head, but it really does a good job of introducing all the math and notation required to understand it as it's buildings things up. |
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| 22:16.35 | elg | what can one get at amazon for $5? |
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| 22:22.02 | bertbob | shipping and handling |
| 22:22.54 | levi_ | Speaking of computer science education, this sounds like a really cool class: http://www.cs.uni.edu/~wallingf/blog-multimedia/15-compilers-15-days.pdf |
| 22:23.47 | bertbob | my favorite CS class was taught in the early '70's by Dr. Organick at Ute U, algorithmic thinking |
| 22:27.09 | levi_ | That does sound like it would have been cool. |
| 22:28.48 | bertbob | about the same time they were teaching their line printers to play tunes at BYU |
| 22:28.48 | bertbob | LOL |
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| 22:29.47 | herlo | ghhfzdgrdw+zd |
| 22:30.17 | herlo | treo in pocket provides strange encryption |
| 22:31.48 | levi_ | bertbob: Were Evans and Sutherland still at the U then? |
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| 22:32.33 | levi_ | Or Bob Barton? |
| 22:33.55 | bertbob | E&S I think so, barton I couldn't say |
| 22:34.45 | levi_ | Alan Kay would have been gone by then, I think. |
| 22:35.17 | levi_ | Apparently Barton was there until '73. |
| 22:35.47 | levi_ | Lots of great people and work came out of the U's CS department back then. |
| 22:35.48 | bertbob | the U was quite important once upon a time |
| 22:37.19 | levi_ | Did you see Sketchpad while you were there? |
| 22:37.40 | bertbob | no, but I did have a 64k workspace in APL |
| 22:37.41 | bertbob | LOL |
| 22:37.59 | bertbob | on the univac 1110 |
| 22:38.08 | levi_ | Mmmm, APL. |
| 22:38.17 | levi_ | With an APL keyboard, I hope. |
| 22:38.37 | bertbob | oh yes, fancy teletype machine with apl characters |
| 22:39.00 | findlay | did you know the squeezeable plastic ketchup bottle was invented at UU? |
| 22:39.28 | bertbob | and the dialysis machine |
| 22:40.59 | bertbob | the president of the U then was fletcher who went on to NASA |
| 22:41.38 | findlay | J. Harvey Fletcher? |
| 22:41.44 | bertbob | james C |
| 22:42.03 | elg | what about mustard bottles? |
| 22:42.19 | findlay | elg: must have been another eminent university |
| 22:42.43 | elg | i think it was an imminent university |
| 22:43.02 | findlay | you |
| 22:43.06 | findlay | 're probably right |
| 22:43.20 | elg | it should be here any day now |
| 22:43.39 | elg | DNFU - duke nukem forever university |
| 22:43.44 | levi_ | elg: That would create some temporal anomalies, eh? |
| 22:43.58 | elg | that depends on whether you get mustard with your sandwiche |
| 22:44.18 | levi_ | Generally, I do. |
| 22:44.26 | levi_ | But not plain yellow mustard. |
| 22:44.29 | elg | then you can't really be here, can you? |
| 22:44.41 | levi_ | I go for spicy brown, dijon, honey, or deli style mustard. |
| 22:44.49 | findlay | doesn't the internet span time as well as space? |
| 22:45.18 | levi_ | findlay: Certainly, but neither completely. |
| 22:52.20 | herlo | 42 |
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| 22:56.22 | findlay | that's it! |
| 22:56.25 | findlay | I patent it |
| 22:56.32 | findlay | ~patent The Answer |
| 22:56.34 | ibot | patents are stupid |
| 22:56.43 | findlay | ibot: you have to help me out here |
| 22:57.23 | findlay | so I can make teh Millionzz$$ |
| 22:59.34 | tyce | hey, n00b question |
| 22:59.42 | tyce | what's +m ? |
| 22:59.51 | tyce | in channel chat lingo |
| 22:59.59 | *** mode/#utah [+o elg] by ChanServ |
| 23:00.37 | *** mode/#utah [+m] by elg |
| 23:01.08 | elg | I think that's +m |
| 23:01.53 | *** mode/#utah [-m] by elg |
| 23:01.56 | findlay | mystified? |
| 23:01.58 | elg | and that's -m |
| 23:02.08 | bertbob | moderated, so that only +o amnd +v can speak |
| 23:02.11 | tyce | ahh |
| 23:02.13 | tyce | ok |
| 23:02.15 | tyce | that makes sense |
| 23:02.22 | findlay | muddy? |
| 23:02.32 | tyce | knew it was something simple I was missing |
| 23:02.50 | findlay | malevolent, (: |
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| 23:19.33 | findlay | why does HTML have to be so ugly? |
| 23:20.35 | macnewbold | it's not always so ugly, it just depends a lot on the author... |
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| 23:29.29 | levi_ | findlay: It's the angle brackets. It would be far prettier with parentheses. |
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| 23:43.39 | flyboy^ | (a href="http:example.com")some link &opren;something in paren&cpren;(/a) -- I think I'd have to encode a lot of parens if it was changed. |
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