| 00:05.02 | *** join/#utah xbmodder_lappy (i=nobody@xbmodder.us) |
| 00:12.57 | *** join/#utah hans (i=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 00:13.55 | elg | ~cook tensai |
| 00:13.56 | ibot | ACTION throws tensai in a big pan with veggies inside and cooks tensai on 350 for an hour |
| 00:14.27 | elg | it's that time of the semester again, folks. Visual Basic as taught from a confusing book. What fun! |
| 00:49.23 | *** join/#utah markl (n=mark@dsl093-225-127.slc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 01:02.50 | *** join/#utah atoponce (n=aaron@c-24-2-85-66.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 01:10.40 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@65.73.113.162) |
| 01:26.19 | *** join/#utah xbmodder_lappy (i=nobody@unaffiliated/xbmodder) |
| 01:26.31 | xbmodder_lappy | how do you recover from a rm -rf /proc? |
| 01:27.52 | findlay | xbmodder_lappy: you don't. You're doomed forever |
| 01:28.33 | xbmodder_lappy | other than a reboot |
| 01:29.05 | xbmodder_lappy | Well, I have some missing files in proc |
| 01:58.29 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (n=linuxali@c-24-2-85-20.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 02:00.06 | *** join/#utah xbmodder (i=nobody@xbmodder.us) |
| 02:13.22 | goozbach | stupid lack of internet |
| 02:13.27 | goozbach | bah |
| 02:13.51 | goozbach | xbmodder: the answer is don't rm /proc |
| 02:14.22 | xbmodder_lappy | well, better question, how do I make /proc/xen/xsd_kva come back? |
| 02:15.05 | goozbach | reboot |
| 02:15.14 | goozbach | and don't run rm on /proc |
| 02:15.22 | xbmodder_lappy | on a server hosting 5 VPSes... |
| 02:15.26 | xbmodder_lappy | I didn't |
| 02:15.26 | goozbach | reboot |
| 02:15.30 | xbmodder_lappy | it dissapeared... |
| 02:15.32 | xbmodder_lappy | :-( |
| 02:15.35 | goozbach | and don't run rm /proc |
| 02:15.44 | goozbach | ~buckybot goozbach |
| 02:15.46 | ibot | goozbach: you're a stupid idiot, and I can tell you that all I want, but if you say anything mean to me, I'll start crying and insulting everything I can, because you're discriminating against me! |
| 02:16.00 | xbmodder_lappy | I didn't rm any of proc |
| 02:16.07 | xbmodder_lappy | rebooting != fun |
| 02:16.12 | goozbach | the trick isn't good |
| 02:16.28 | goozbach | er the trick is don't upset xen |
| 02:16.34 | xbmodder_lappy | any alternatives? |
| 02:16.41 | goozbach | production should be seperate from dev/test |
| 02:16.51 | goozbach | don't TOUCH production |
| 02:17.11 | goozbach | until you've practcied mucho timeos on dev/test |
| 02:17.13 | xbmodder_lappy | We went in to reboot a VM |
| 02:17.20 | xbmodder_lappy | and xen crashed and burned |
| 02:17.30 | goozbach | reboot |
| 02:17.51 | goozbach | migrate the running guests to another host |
| 02:18.00 | goozbach | then reboot that host |
| 02:18.25 | xbmodder_lappy | can't migrate, xend is dead :-( |
| 02:18.37 | xbmodder_lappy | because xenstore is dead |
| 02:18.47 | xbmodder_lappy | xenstore is dead because it can't find that file |
| 02:18.59 | xbmodder_lappy | that file is owned by xenbus, which is owned by the kernel |
| 02:25.31 | xbmodder_lappy | there is no great patch for the kernel to restart certain parts, other than modules |
| 02:53.22 | *** join/#utah nick125_lappy (n=nick@unaffiliated/nick125) |
| 03:04.42 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch@71-38-232-41.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 03:13.06 | *** join/#utah Ash (i=aaron@outofband.org) |
| 03:14.04 | Ash | hello |
| 03:14.32 | nick125 | hi |
| 03:16.55 | Ash | woah, TheTiGuR is here |
| 03:16.56 | Ash | hah |
| 03:43.52 | xbmodder_lappy | Ash, Yeah, he has a great choice in technology by the way ;-) |
| 03:44.22 | nick125 | lol |
| 03:44.27 | nick125 | xbmodder_lappy: hey.. |
| 03:45.09 | Ash | xbmodder_lappy: er, what? |
| 03:46.03 | Ash | (sorry, I might be missing the joke) |
| 03:46.48 | xbmodder | Just saying, he has some of the best choices in web hosting technology... |
| 03:46.50 | xbmodder | (VPSes) |
| 03:46.53 | xbmodder | and things |
| 03:47.08 | Ash | Oh, he's a webhost these days? |
| 03:47.08 | Ash | heh |
| 03:47.16 | Ash | I just colocate my own servers |
| 03:47.25 | xbmodder_lappy | Ash, who do you colocate with? |
| 03:47.34 | Ash | xbmodder_lappy: the cheapest place I could find |
| 03:47.35 | Ash | ;) |
| 03:47.42 | Ash | waveform.net, they're somewhere in michigan |
| 03:47.50 | xbmodder | where are you based out of? |
| 03:47.56 | Ash | I'm currently in Las Vegas, NV |
| 03:48.07 | Ash | I used to live in SLC, though. |
| 03:48.19 | xbmodder_lappy | why don't you colocate closer to home? |
| 03:48.28 | xbmodder_lappy | what sort of ping do you get to your server? |
| 03:48.28 | Ash | because everything close to home is a rip off |
| 03:49.00 | Ash | (I manage a few racks of servers colocated down here in vegas, and we pay way too much) |
| 03:49.04 | xbmodder_lappy | I can gladly say, I can beat that. |
| 03:49.34 | xbmodder_lappy | I can beat all of those... |
| 03:50.30 | Ash | ? |
| 03:50.59 | xbmodder_lappy | Mind if I talk to you in PM? |
| 03:51.21 | Ash | er, sure. |
| 03:52.23 | nick125 | xbmodder_lappy: sir, put your crackpipe down and keep your hands where I can see them. |
| 03:54.58 | *** join/#utah beandog (n=steve@c-67-182-234-30.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 03:55.05 | beandog | Anyone here running an OpenWRT router? |
| 03:55.29 | beandog | I suck at firewalls. |
| 03:55.30 | beandog | :T |
| 03:59.27 | mheath | w00t, I got the second half of my tax return today :) |
| 04:00.43 | xbmodder_lappy | cool |
| 04:03.03 | findlay | warm |
| 04:03.16 | nick125 | hot |
| 04:04.46 | *** join/#utah beandog (n=steve@c-67-182-234-30.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 04:05.10 | beandog | bah. |
| 04:13.10 | findlay | .hab |
| 04:16.15 | QBFreak | weirdos |
| 04:16.27 | beandog | I *really* suck at firewalls. :C |
| 04:16.48 | xbmodder_lappy | what are you trying to figure out? |
| 04:16.50 | beandog | And theres no OpenWRT iptables docs. |
| 04:17.01 | beandog | port forwarding |
| 04:18.19 | nick125 | xbmodder_lappy: did you read my PM? |
| 04:18.52 | xbmodder_lappy | which one |
| 04:19.11 | nick125 | the one you haven't responded to |
| 04:19.17 | findlay | beandog: what do the OpenWRT iptables look like? Is there a default setup for port forwarding? |
| 04:19.41 | xbmodder | . |
| 04:21.13 | beandog | findlay: no, Im not even sure all the right modules are installed by default. I had to install nat. |
| 04:26.49 | findlay | beandog: do you have any iptables experience? |
| 04:27.45 | beandog | findlay: A little bit. I understand some of it, but starting from scratch like this always trips me up. |
| 04:28.40 | findlay | what specifically are you trying to do? You mentioned port forwarding, but is this for a single machine or for a network of machines? |
| 04:29.02 | beandog | Its on my Linksys router. I just put OpenWRT on there. |
| 04:29.17 | beandog | Ive got everything working (obviously, Im online) except port forwarding. |
| 04:29.26 | beandog | http://wonkabar.org/ |
| 04:29.27 | brac | [OpenWrt Administrative Console] |
| 04:31.34 | mheath | ~lart Sparky |
| 04:42.14 | mheath | Sorry, that was a copy-and-paste demonstration of ibots advanced functionality for a friend :-) |
| 04:44.32 | Supaplex | ~lart it's creator |
| 04:46.37 | nick125 | ooo...advanced |
| 04:48.23 | Supaplex | s/it's/its/ |
| 04:48.26 | Supaplex | but yea. :) |
| 04:49.25 | Supaplex | yes ibot, I did. |
| 04:50.21 | Supaplex | er, adapter |
| 04:50.37 | findlay | beandog: seems like it's a little more complex than I have supposed, but not too much |
| 04:51.02 | findlay | there seems to be a lack of official documentation |
| 04:51.02 | beandog | findlay: oh yah? well any pointers in the right direction would be really helpful. |
| 04:51.07 | beandog | yah. :T |
| 04:51.13 | beandog | And the default firewall is *really* basic. |
| 04:53.33 | findlay | iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -p tcp -j DNAT --to 192.168.0.2 |
| 04:53.51 | findlay | that looks like a base rule you could start with |
| 04:54.04 | Supaplex | it'll nat localhost to. |
| 04:54.24 | findlay | once you get familliar with iptables syntax, it's really not too hard to construct rules |
| 04:54.41 | findlay | Supaplex: you mean that rule I just typed in? |
| 04:54.59 | Supaplex | yuep |
| 04:55.02 | beandog | Ok |
| 04:55.11 | findlay | should you be more specific with specific ports then? |
| 04:55.27 | Supaplex | behold the handy -j RETURN |
| 04:55.54 | xbmodder_lappy | RETURN? |
| 04:56.17 | findlay | Supaplex: this is for his router, though |
| 04:56.31 | Supaplex | discontinues this chain, and assumes disposition of the policy of the chain. |
| 04:58.09 | findlay | the iptables man page is pretty helpful too |
| 04:58.51 | Supaplex | oh yes, DNAT. I was thinking SNAT. my bad. |
| 04:59.31 | Supaplex | it's fast enough for java... |
| 04:59.32 | *** join/#utah nick125_lappy (n=nick@unaffiliated/nick125) |
| 05:00.07 | maquis | gah |
| 05:00.21 | maquis | it has to completely reload from scratch on every single page... |
| 05:00.46 | Supaplex | it's a beaut it's it? |
| 05:01.00 | findlay | it has to regrow the bean plants, re-grind the beans, and re-brew the java for each page? |
| 05:01.16 | findlay | at it's fresh that way |
| 05:01.27 | Supaplex | and run a new instance of java.exe |
| 05:01.28 | findlay | s/at it's/at least it's/ |
| 05:01.47 | Supaplex | on a p133 with 32mb of ram |
| 05:01.48 | maquis | :) |
| 05:02.07 | maquis | Supaplex: actually what scares me is that i'm betting this is on a reasonably nice machine |
| 05:02.27 | Supaplex | yea :P |
| 05:02.30 | nick125_lappy | xbmodder_lappy: ping |
| 05:03.26 | xbmodder_lappy | pong |
| 05:03.30 | nick125_lappy | yay |
| 05:04.13 | maquis | Supaplex: you might be right about running a new instance of java.exe each time... |
| 05:04.20 | maquis | it's officially taking longer to load each consecutive page |
| 05:04.26 | findlay | something classic that won't get tired 50 years from now |
| 05:04.29 | QBFreak | it wont let me skip through any of this DVD |
| 05:04.38 | Supaplex | maquis: I'm using wget to mirror it. ;) |
| 05:04.49 | QBFreak | findlay: findlayscooldomain.com |
| 05:04.58 | nick125_lappy | yay |
| 05:05.01 | findlay | QBFreak: the arrow keys don't work? |
| 05:05.01 | nick125_lappy | This Page Is Valid XHTML 1.0 Transitional! |
| 05:05.34 | findlay | maquis: try the ldscatalog.org site |
| 05:05.36 | findlay | heh |
| 05:05.49 | findlay | now, there's a site ... |
| 05:06.37 | maquis | findlay: does it have my textbook information on it? |
| 05:07.25 | findlay | no, but it can be really slow with a lot of connections |
| 05:07.35 | findlay | as in it takes 10 minutes to load |
| 05:08.01 | maquis | findlay: i decided to hit reload after 220 seconds with byubookstore |
| 05:08.06 | maquis | going to give it til it finishes this time |
| 05:08.11 | maquis | (or til it dies) |
| 05:09.03 | maquis | Supaplex: ummm |
| 05:09.16 | maquis | that's probably not a good idea |
| 05:09.29 | findlay | maquis: just wget the page and then you can let it take it's time to load while you do other things instead of stare at the tantalizing dots in a circle and when you're done you can have it locally to enjoy indefinitely |
| 05:09.58 | nick125_lappy | maquis: what site are you having problems with? |
| 05:10.30 | maquis | nick125_lappy: i'm trying to look at the textbooks for next term |
| 05:10.37 | maquis | for AI |
| 05:10.42 | nick125_lappy | whats the URL? |
| 05:11.00 | maquis | just a sec... i'm going back to see if a different class will load |
| 05:11.07 | maquis | assuming i can get it to give me the department list again |
| 05:11.25 | maquis | http://www.byubookstore.com/ePOS/store=439&form=shared3/textbooks/text_browse.html&design=439&campus=MAIN <-- one of the pages that is being slow... |
| 05:11.49 | maquis | it's being a bit faster at the moment, though |
| 05:11.51 | nick125_lappy | ePOS..I'm not sure that means point-of-sale |
| 05:12.12 | maquis | but then... if i click on something from there, and select a section and everything... then it goes forever |
| 05:12.48 | maquis | nick125_lappy: http://www.byubookstore.com/ePOS?store=439&form=shared3/textbooks/text_browse.html&design=439&campus=MAIN&term=062&department=BIOL&course=100§ion=6&show_textbooks=1 |
| 05:13.26 | findlay | looks like http://www.byubookstore.com/ is running a LAMP |
| 05:13.33 | *** join/#utah BL4 (n=Bl4QKUBA@3-1-10.ore.fiber.net) |
| 05:13.46 | findlay | maybe not a very efficient one |
| 05:13.51 | nick125_lappy | Benchmarking www.byubookstore.com (be patient)...apr_poll: The timeout specified has expired (70007) |
| 05:13.54 | maquis | w00t! it loaded! |
| 05:14.10 | Supaplex | hehe nick125_lappy |
| 05:14.28 | maquis | nick125_lappy: what tool you using? |
| 05:14.33 | nick125_lappy | ab2 |
| 05:14.47 | nick125_lappy | Server Software: Apache/1.3.27 |
| 05:16.05 | nick125_lappy | its still loading here.. |
| 05:16.39 | nick125_lappy | maybe its an I/O bottleneck |
| 05:16.53 | maquis | nick125_lappy: no idea... |
| 05:17.00 | maquis | but it shouldn't be this bad |
| 05:17.21 | findlay | netcraft is faster (: |
| 05:17.32 | findlay | maquis: I blame Canada |
| 05:17.34 | findlay | and OIT |
| 05:17.39 | findlay | and OCT |
| 05:17.43 | maquis | i blame OIT |
| 05:18.33 | nick125_lappy | I blame everyone else except myself |
| 05:19.31 | findlay | ~blame OCT |
| 05:19.33 | ibot | ACTION blames OCT for all the evil in the world |
| 05:19.57 | maquis | sure, they've got a nice design and such... but they could've ditched some of the design in exchange for speed, i think |
| 05:20.11 | nick125_lappy | I think the byubookstore site header just loaded |
| 05:21.59 | findlay | LinuxApache/1.3.27 Unix Red-Hat/Linux mod_ssl/2.8.12 OpenSSL/0.9.6b DAV/1.0.3 PHP/4.1.2 mod_perl/1.26 |
| 05:22.08 | findlay | that's it |
| 05:22.28 | maquis | findlay: this thing's running linux? |
| 05:22.30 | maquis | freaky |
| 05:22.39 | beandog | well, I give up. |
| 05:22.40 | maquis | how'd they manage to kill it so bad? |
| 05:22.47 | Supaplex | I say we fire the $admins |
| 05:23.00 | maquis | i dunno |
| 05:23.00 | findlay | maquis: oh sure, so now it's not the OS/server's fault |
| 05:23.02 | findlay | (: |
| 05:23.06 | maquis | $webmaster might have some issues too |
| 05:23.10 | Supaplex | so it's a bad apple |
| 05:23.16 | maquis | i think $admins and $webmaster should go |
| 05:23.28 | findlay | go where? |
| 05:23.33 | Supaplex | /dev/null |
| 05:23.54 | maquis | yeah |
| 05:24.32 | findlay | the OS/server stack is circumstantial to a lot of more important information |
| 05:24.41 | SpecialZ | /dev/null is a scary place. What goes in doesn't come out. |
| 05:24.48 | Supaplex | atleast we hope |
| 05:24.54 | Supaplex | :P |
| 05:24.58 | maquis | yeah |
| 05:25.12 | maquis | SpecialZ: that's the point |
| 05:25.28 | findlay | ooohh, scary |
| 05:27.36 | SpecialZ | ln -s ~/.bash_history /dev/null |
| 05:27.53 | nick125_lappy | Supaplex: how did you do that? |
| 05:27.56 | findlay | source /dev/urandom |
| 05:28.12 | nick125_lappy | continental ~ # source /dev/urandom |
| 05:28.12 | nick125_lappy | continental ~ # |
| 05:28.26 | findlay | source $(/dev/urandom) |
| 05:28.35 | findlay | lol |
| 05:28.50 | nick125_lappy | continental ~ # source $(/dev/urandom) |
| 05:28.50 | nick125_lappy | -bash: /dev/urandom: Permission denied |
| 05:28.50 | nick125_lappy | -bash: source: filename argument required |
| 05:28.50 | nick125_lappy | source: usage: source filename [arguments] |
| 05:28.50 | nick125_lappy | continental ~ # |
| 05:28.51 | Supaplex | while :;do tail /dev/urandom &done&wait |
| 05:29.26 | findlay | source $(cat /dev/urandom) |
| 05:29.32 | nick125_lappy | continental ~ # while :;do tail /dev/urandom &done&wait |
| 05:29.32 | nick125_lappy | [2] 9880 |
| 05:29.33 | nick125_lappy | continental ~ # |
| 05:29.39 | Supaplex | sh /dev/urandom |
| 05:29.53 | Supaplex | nick125_lappy: now try ps :) |
| 05:30.15 | nick125_lappy | lol |
| 05:30.41 | nick125_lappy | continental ~ # ps |
| 05:30.46 | nick125_lappy | ^X |
| 05:30.48 | nick125_lappy | continental ~ # |
| 05:30.56 | Supaplex | are you laggin? :) |
| 05:31.05 | nick125_lappy | lol |
| 05:31.25 | nick125_lappy | no not really |
| 05:31.42 | Supaplex | the highest load average I ever survived was about 220 |
| 05:31.56 | findlay | wow, that's high |
| 05:31.59 | nick125_lappy | continental ~ # uptime |
| 05:31.59 | nick125_lappy | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:31.59 | nick125_lappy | continental ~ # |
| 05:32.06 | Supaplex | nice :) |
| 05:33.21 | Supaplex | now what is it |
| 05:33.33 | nick125_lappy | dropped to 260 |
| 05:35.16 | nick125_lappy | that wasn't smart |
| 05:35.23 | nick125_lappy | I opened around..20 instances of that |
| 05:36.58 | nick125_lappy | ping nick125 |
| 05:36.59 | nick125_lappy | haha |
| 05:39.38 | nick125_lappy | :/ |
| 05:40.38 | BL4 | ~ping nick125_lappy |
| 05:40.45 | ibot | pong nick125_lappy |
| 05:40.45 | Supaplex | atleast we didn't combine shred and find. =) |
| 05:41.25 | findlay | sudo find / -type f | xargs -i shred -fuxz {} |
| 05:41.33 | findlay | destruction |
| 05:41.40 | Supaplex | oh yes |
| 05:41.50 | nick125_lappy | :P |
| 05:43.10 | *** join/#utah nick125 (n=nick@unaffiliated/nick125) |
| 05:43.15 | nick125 | do this: |
| 05:43.23 | nick125 | python -c 'import os; while true: os.fork()' |
| 05:43.28 | nick125 | :D |
| 05:44.00 | nick125 | I want to write a forkbomb in rub |
| 05:44.01 | nick125 | y |
| 05:44.26 | Supaplex | you want to rub a fork bomb on your what?! |
| 05:44.42 | nick125_lappy | ruby |
| 05:44.43 | nick125_lappy | blah |
| 05:44.49 | nick125_lappy | crap |
| 05:44.53 | nick125_lappy | I forgotto start sshd |
| 05:45.51 | nick125 | there |
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| 06:59.33 | QBFreak | arrr |
| 07:00.34 | QBFreak | findlay: I had tried those, they all sent me back to the beginning |
| 07:00.42 | QBFreak | eventually I got it to work, no idea how |
| 07:01.21 | nick125_lappy | QBFreak: what problems? |
| 07:01.45 | QBFreak | which, the CD or mplayer? |
| 07:02.28 | QBFreak | I need an MS-DOS boot disk with CD-ROM drivers |
| 07:02.33 | QBFreak | so I can install ME |
| 07:03.03 | QBFreak | ~roulette |
| 07:03.06 | ibot | ACTION watches qbfreak pull the trigger: Click! |
| 07:03.07 | QBFreak | hmm |
| 07:05.23 | QBFreak | ibot: why wont you just let me die?! |
| 07:06.18 | QBFreak | ~roulette |
| 07:06.19 | ibot | ACTION watches qbfreak pull the trigger: Click! |
| 07:06.28 | nick125_lappy | QBFreak: use the gun I gave you |
| 07:06.35 | QBFreak | ~shoot QBFreak |
| 07:06.36 | ibot | ACTION shoots QBFreak in the foot with a spitwad! |
| 07:06.43 | QBFreak | ~suicide |
| 07:06.45 | ibot | ACTION kills herself Juliet style, after seeing qbfreak commit suicide |
| 07:06.54 | QBFreak | ibot: aww, you shouldn't have |
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| 08:29.29 | maquis | http://techdirt.com/article.php?sid=20060423/2344210 <-- /me cries |
| 08:29.31 | brac | [Techdirt: Extending And Expanding The DMCA] |
| 08:50.59 | bertbob | better to write to borin snatch than to cry |
| 08:52.05 | bertbob | even though he's in bed with RIAA himself |
| 09:09.31 | maquis | bertbob: i doubt it'd do anything |
| 09:09.39 | maquis | better to vote for pete ashdown.... |
| 09:10.02 | maquis | bertbob: hello... i don't think i've talked to you before, btw :) |
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| 12:42.32 | mheath | I was waiting to submit a bunch of assignments for my online class |
| 12:42.50 | mheath | The teacher was having trouble accessing the upload area on their site, so I waited in case I had to e-mail them. |
| 12:43.04 | mheath | I lost about two weeks of work |
| 12:43.23 | mheath | Its my fault, too....I reformatted and didn't even think about it... |
| 12:44.49 | Supaplex | woops |
| 12:45.04 | mheath | Jeez, I'm cutting this close :( |
| 12:45.32 | Supaplex | the cheese? ;) |
| 12:45.41 | Supaplex | that sucks man. |
| 12:46.04 | Supaplex | ~lart the lame morning commuters on the road |
| 12:46.16 | mheath | 34 assignments to complete by monday now |
| 12:46.30 | mheath | Granted they're all really easy |
| 12:46.33 | Supaplex | tip, disconnect from irc and im's |
| 12:46.49 | mheath | thats what I plan to do |
| 12:46.54 | mheath | Thats not the big concern now, though |
| 12:47.00 | mheath | Work is my big concern |
| 12:47.10 | mheath | They're scheduling me way too much lately to get this all done |
| 12:47.36 | mheath | Go to school from 7:45 to 2:30 then I work at 5:30 until late =\ |
| 12:47.54 | mheath | Tomorrows my only day off this week |
| 13:02.12 | goozbach | that stinks |
| 13:03.42 | mheath | Cloing out IRC for the next two weeks. Really. I really need to get this stuff done. I'm down to the wire |
| 13:03.50 | mheath | I don't event want the temptation to take a break and chat. |
| 13:09.42 | goozbach | should I ban him |
| 13:09.45 | goozbach | ? |
| 13:09.58 | goozbach | just to make sure he doesn't have the tempation? |
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| 14:07.45 | Supaplex | ibot's lart on commuters works well. |
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| 14:08.34 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
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| 14:42.46 | elg | ~rlart |
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| 14:48.12 | goozbach | morning |
| 14:48.18 | goozbach | time to look for lunch |
| 14:49.57 | tensai | this Outlook thing is horrible. how does anybody get anything done with it? |
| 14:51.41 | Jayce^ | they don't.. |
| 14:51.52 | jsmith | tensai: People are supposed to get things done? |
| 14:51.55 | Jayce^ | that's why they are so comfortable with it |
| 14:55.24 | goozbach | outlook is the anti-work |
| 14:55.42 | ^Migs^ | it's kind of nice just having an email client installed with Windows |
| 14:55.53 | ^Migs^ | it's fairly easy to configure, too |
| 14:56.02 | ^Migs^ | I dunno. If you're used to it, then why not? |
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| 15:06.23 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@67.40.181.170) |
| 15:07.53 | *** topic/#utah by sjansen -> The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See openclue.org/ut, sllug.org, uphpu.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com, utaug.org || Tickets/Info for X-Men 3 coming soon (for certain definitions of "soon") |
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| 15:12.14 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by irc.freenode.net |
| 15:12.50 | Jayce^ | welcome back calvino :) |
| 15:13.25 | goozbach | sjansen: have fun sucker!!! |
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| 15:20.54 | goozbach | docbook2pdf is super crappy |
| 15:21.13 | jsmith | goozbach: Depends on the stylesheet |
| 15:22.09 | goozbach | aparently I'm using a crappy one |
| 15:22.27 | goozbach | or my table is too complex |
| 15:24.23 | levi | Good morning, #utah |
| 15:24.35 | goozbach | jsmith: any suggestions of good PDF stylesheets? |
| 15:24.37 | elg | man, ie fonts are ugly |
| 15:25.00 | jsmith | goozbach: Nope, not off the top of my head... |
| 15:26.29 | levi | elg: How so? |
| 15:29.17 | elg | just ugly |
| 15:30.07 | elg | arial, ugly. times, ugly. but more so, I'm looking at my blog in the default typo theme and the "make tags bigger/smaller by how popular they are" thing is UGLY |
| 15:30.18 | elg | looks worse than scaled fonts in X11 |
| 15:30.30 | elg | and that's just arial |
| 15:37.40 | elg | it looks terrible in netscape too. (this computer's jacked, don't ask me) |
| 15:38.01 | levi | Huh. What version of Windows? |
| 15:38.06 | elg | xp |
| 15:38.08 | levi | IE on my XP box looks decent. |
| 15:38.13 | findlay | i.e. fonts are ugly? |
| 15:38.22 | findlay | ha ha |
| 15:38.27 | levi | Do you have the AA font renderer turned on? I forget what it's called now. |
| 15:39.45 | tensai | ~lart findlay |
| 15:40.35 | elg | no clue. this lab machine is so hosed. it's on the domain but can't see the domain drives, somehow got aol and netscape installed, is always popping up error boxes from ie |
| 15:41.19 | findlay | elg: just throw a knoppix CD in there. There's a reason they call them rescue CDs (: |
| 15:41.31 | levi | Display Properties/Appearance/Effects/Use the following method to smooth edges of screen fonts: ClearType |
| 15:43.59 | dataw0lf | bitstream vera++ |
| 15:44.48 | goozbach | Free Cone DAY!!! |
| 15:44.59 | goozbach | get yourself over to ben and jerry's now! |
| 15:45.05 | goozbach | get a free cone!!! |
| 15:46.23 | Jayce^ | starts at like noon |
| 15:46.26 | Jayce^ | :) |
| 15:46.33 | elg | levi: ah, that looks a little better |
| 15:46.44 | levi | Microsoft's web fonts aren't all that bad. Verdana and Georgia are pretty good. |
| 15:46.57 | elg | quite a bit better actually. the rest of how it looks might be basically that I don't like Arial. :) |
| 15:47.02 | elg | Yeah, I like Georgia pretty well |
| 15:52.36 | dataw0lf | what about fonts for programming? bitstream vera sans mono all the way. |
| 15:54.01 | sjansen | Considering how much MS hyped it, I'm surprised by how disappointing ClearType is. |
| 15:54.37 | sjansen | Freetype actually looks better... If only Freetype looked as good as the Mac OS X font renderer. |
| 15:55.34 | sjansen | dataw0lf: I loved ProFontWindows.ttf for a long time. Lately, I've been leaning toward bitstream vera sans mono, but there's a few character I'd prefer to be more distinct. |
| 15:55.38 | findlay | does freetype work for type 1? |
| 15:56.25 | dataw0lf | sjansen: yea, same here. but it's the most comfortable I've found so far. |
| 15:57.02 | findlay | I like lucida typewriter for a fixed width font |
| 15:57.31 | findlay | it's very readable even at small sizes |
| 15:58.25 | tensai | aaah! magic smoke is filling my office |
| 15:59.04 | dataw0lf | I've heard good things about Pragmata. |
| 15:59.42 | findlay | also good for line art |
| 16:02.09 | sjansen | tensai: what flavor of magic smoke? |
| 16:02.16 | levi | o/~ who let the smoke out... o/~ |
| 16:02.24 | Jayce^ | mmmm... ozone |
| 16:14.10 | tensai | sjansen: hard drive. vintage 1997 I think. |
| 16:16.19 | harleypig | http://70.86.201.113/imageserv2/temporary/PBF047ADMittens.html |
| 16:16.20 | brac | [randomized PBF comic strip] |
| 16:21.19 | sjansen | ~rlart |
| 16:22.21 | ^Migs^ | wtf |
| 16:22.25 | ^Migs^ | ~rlart |
| 16:24.35 | Bradipo | Wow, pluglist server is really pumping out the emails fast today! |
| 16:24.36 | sjansen | ~lart amazon for delaying sjansen's order nearly three months |
| 16:26.06 | Bradipo | It took all of 6 seconds from the time it left my machine to the time my server accepted the mailing list message. |
| 16:26.08 | Bradipo | Impressive. |
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| 16:29.52 | Jayce^ | well, we've got good bandwidth |
| 16:29.52 | Jayce^ | shouldn't be any problems |
| 16:31.22 | sjansen | Jayce^: my goodness, that guy has a real talen for creating wire weapons |
| 16:32.08 | sjansen | http://www.funmansion.com/html/Ethernet-Cable-Soldiers.html <-- for those that haven't seen it yet |
| 16:32.59 | Jayce^ | oh sure, steal the linkage to my blog.... |
| 16:33.56 | ^Migs^ | the site is blocked |
| 16:34.09 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch@71-38-232-41.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 16:34.10 | ^Migs^ | This site is blocked under the following categories: Tasteless/Gross, Jokes, Sex |
| 16:34.16 | ^Migs^ | haha |
| 16:34.50 | Jayce^ | based on the url, very possible, but that post is clean :) |
| 16:35.21 | *** join/#utah Hhhhh (n=Hhhhhhhh@158.91.201.220) |
| 16:35.29 | ^Migs^ | yeah, but why ban individual URLs when you can just ban entire sites? |
| 16:38.07 | findlay | I like his lego aircraft carrier |
| 16:39.23 | ^Migs^ | crap, I wanna see it |
| 16:39.42 | Jayce^ | ~tease ^Migs^ |
| 16:39.43 | ibot | ACTION tickles ^Migs^ with a feather and makes ^Migs^ rotflmaopimp-ing |
| 16:40.04 | ^Migs^ | ~tease Jayce^ |
| 16:40.05 | ibot | ACTION tickles Jayce^ with a feather and makes Jayce^ rotflmaopimp-ing |
| 16:40.09 | ^Migs^ | oh |
| 16:40.11 | ^Migs^ | ~rlart |
| 16:40.43 | dataw0lf | sjansen: dataw0lf.org/screenshot_anon.jpg |
| 16:40.46 | dataw0lf | Anonymous font |
| 16:42.13 | findlay | although it looks incomplete |
| 16:42.34 | findlay | ~lart gnome-terminal |
| 16:42.53 | findlay | I'm going back to fluxbox |
| 16:45.56 | sjansen | not bad |
| 16:51.01 | ^Migs^ | ~rlart |
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| 17:17.58 | goozbach | blargfooblarg |
| 17:18.13 | sjansen | ~foo goozbach |
| 17:18.15 | ibot | ACTION foo! || <action> bar goozbach || <reply> foo goozbach bar || foo |
| 17:19.12 | tensai | grr, outlook! |
| 17:19.31 | tensai | I hate it, I hate it, I hate it |
| 17:23.25 | Jayce^ | wow, sounds just like gollum there tensai |
| 17:23.52 | tensai | ~lart Jayce^ |
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| 17:39.59 | goozbach | blahrgfooblarg |
| 17:40.19 | Jayce^ | ~hug Memcached |
| 17:40.20 | ibot | ACTION hugs Memcached |
| 17:50.29 | QBFreak | I like the fact that gnome-terminal recognizes links, but konsole has been a lot more stable for me |
| 17:53.12 | QBFreak | sjansen: thats crazy |
| 17:53.49 | QBFreak | there's a problem with the internet, everybody can share their cool stuff with everyone else, and soon they all realize I'm just not that cool at all :) |
| 18:00.38 | QBFreak | hmm, I made some disk images with dd and I stuck them on an Ultimate Boot CD but they hang when it tries to boot them |
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| 18:31.36 | obfuscated | I've said this before, but we still need more dbas, support engineers, and senior engineers at backcountry.com for anyone interested |
| 18:31.50 | obfuscated | ***cheap gear*** |
| 18:37.31 | ^Migs^ | ever since my in-laws moved in, weird things have been happening around the house. Lights turning on by themselves, toys turning on and making their noises. Just yesterday I was standing at the kitchen counter at the dustbuster suddenly turned on. |
| 18:37.37 | ^Migs^ | *and the |
| 18:38.07 | ^Migs^ | anything part-time? |
| 18:38.20 | ^Migs^ | what db does it use? |
| 18:39.44 | *** join/#utah spr (n=spr@ramona.cs.byu.edu) |
| 18:49.39 | obfuscated | ^Migs^: all full-time - postgres is our main db |
| 18:49.58 | ^Migs^ | what are the bennies like? |
| 18:50.27 | ^Migs^ | what kind of salaries? |
| 18:50.46 | ^Migs^ | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:52.50 | jlp_work | obfuscated: why does your site only list "Associate Software Engineer" and "Perl Developer" if you're looking for dba and senior engineer? |
| 18:53.18 | obfuscated | jlp_work: I'm guessing they haven't updated that |
| 18:53.29 | obfuscated | the "Associate" one is the support one |
| 18:53.42 | jlp_work | I might know a guy who might be interested, but he's a senior guy and would need a senior salary |
| 18:53.43 | obfuscated | the dba one just isn't on there for some reason |
| 18:54.05 | obfuscated | a description of all 3 should be coming out on jobs.perl.org however |
| 18:54.21 | jlp_work | he's not a programmer, though... is programming required in all of the positions? |
| 18:54.43 | jlp_work | (he can crank out a script, but I wouldn't hand him a gob of perl code and say "go for it") |
| 18:56.02 | obfuscated | jlp_work: if he's dba material that's cool |
| 18:56.25 | jlp_work | I do know another guy who is pretty handy with Perl, but the salary mentioned on the site for the perl developer position would not interest him |
| 18:56.32 | obfuscated | we may need some sysadmins soon as well, so if he's one of those, have him go ahead and shoot me a resume |
| 18:56.55 | jlp_work | the first guy is more of a systems guy... currently working at linux networkx |
| 18:57.30 | obfuscated | jlp_work: the best perks of this job are more than the salary, that it's a very open-source centric environment (we're encouraged to donate code we write at work to the community) and that we get very cheap discounts on gear, ski passes, and other outdoor things |
| 18:57.41 | obfuscated | but salary is negotiable |
| 18:58.01 | jlp_work | well, either of these two guys would be less interested in those types of "perks" and more interested in $$ :-) |
| 18:58.09 | obfuscated | jlp_work: if he's looking have him go ahead and shoot me a resume (the first guy or the second) |
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| 18:58.29 | jlp_work | pm me your e-mail |
| 18:59.08 | ^Migs^ | that's a very low salary for that job |
| 19:01.28 | goozbach | any docbook users in the house? |
| 19:01.51 | goozbach | how do I get jade or openjade to create html files with specific filenames? |
| 19:01.58 | jlp_work | obfuscated: or should they just e-mail to jobs@backcountry.com? |
| 19:02.04 | goozbach | instead of that t1.html and x##.html |
| 19:02.06 | goozbach | ? |
| 19:02.41 | obfuscated | jlp_work: go ahead and have them e-mail jstay@backcountry.com |
| 19:02.52 | jlp_work | ok, I'll pass it on |
| 19:02.54 | obfuscated | I get a referral bonus :-) |
| 19:03.03 | jlp_work | which you'll split with me, right? :-) |
| 19:03.53 | obfuscated | jlp_work: we'll see ;-) Maybe if you come work for us too. |
| 19:04.06 | jlp_work | I'm pretty happy right here, actually :-) |
| 19:10.10 | ^Migs^ | could I telecommute, obfuscated? |
| 19:11.48 | Jayce^ | jlp_work, senior level friend? we're hiring... and great bennies |
| 19:12.04 | jlp_work | yeah, they're both senior level |
| 19:12.37 | ^Migs^ | which company, Jayce^? |
| 19:12.57 | Jayce^ | ^Migs^, United Online, Web Services divions (the Utah Office) |
| 19:13.06 | jlp_work | one is more of a linux/systems/network guy and the other is more of a general joat type of guy |
| 19:13.21 | jlp_work | Jayce^: say hi to scott fullen for me |
| 19:13.22 | ^Migs^ | where? Salt Lake? |
| 19:13.34 | Jayce^ | jlp_work, yeah, he's a couple of cubes over from me |
| 19:13.37 | Jayce^ | Orem |
| 19:13.50 | jlp_work | I actually applied there a while back... didn't get an offer |
| 19:13.54 | ^Migs^ | I should've bought a house closer to SLC when we were purchasing last year |
| 19:13.55 | obfuscated | Jayce^: say hi to Rob and Paul Seammons for me |
| 19:13.59 | obfuscated | and Dan Hanks |
| 19:14.05 | obfuscated | and harleypig |
| 19:14.08 | jlp_work | perhaps all the ex-imall guys (who have seen my code before) didn't like me :-) |
| 19:14.12 | obfuscated | and Joe |
| 19:14.25 | obfuscated | jlp_work: you know Chris Snell? |
| 19:14.35 | jlp_work | obfuscated: no |
| 19:14.47 | obfuscated | he used to work at imall - he works for us now |
| 19:14.55 | Jayce^ | jlp_work, should retry, they were only hiring 'principle' level before, now they are doing Sr and Jr level |
| 19:15.12 | jlp_work | I was early imall... (I was their first technical employee) |
| 19:15.18 | Jayce^ | and have several open slots instead of just one |
| 19:15.24 | obfuscated | we're hiring all levels :-P |
| 19:15.37 | Jayce^ | we dont' hire morons :) |
| 19:15.46 | obfuscated | Jayce^: neither do we ;-) |
| 19:16.26 | jlp_work | Jayce^: I'm pretty happy at Oakley Networks. it would take quite a bit to get me out of here at this point (been here just over a year) |
| 19:16.47 | obfuscated | jlp_work: we sell Oakleys ;-) |
| 19:16.58 | jlp_work | wrong kind of Oakley :-) |
| 19:17.12 | obfuscated | but our Oakleys are cooler |
| 19:17.34 | jlp_work | I don't know about that :-) |
| 19:17.57 | Jayce^ | jlp_work, never know, this company is great for 'golden handcuffs' and good enticement |
| 19:19.19 | obfuscated | jlp_work: we believe in bonuses for good work here too |
| 19:19.29 | obfuscated | "work for me!" |
| 19:19.38 | jlp_work | :-) |
| 19:19.51 | neybar_work | I believe in bonuses too, but that doesn't always deliver |
| 19:19.56 | *** join/#utah RyanE (n=ryan@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 19:20.10 | jlp_work | you're welcome to review my resume and see if there's a fit. I think it's relatively up-to-date |
| 19:20.14 | obfuscated | neybar_work: oh, we deliver |
| 19:20.48 | obfuscated | plus, free gear every week for the best optimization performed |
| 19:21.11 | Jayce^ | Stock.. that's worthwhile :) |
| 19:21.24 | Jayce^ | :) |
| 19:21.31 | jlp_work | I used to look at stock as an incentive... not so much, any more |
| 19:21.39 | obfuscated | we won't get sold out - that's worthwile ;-) |
| 19:22.17 | jlp_work | although, if I'd taken that position at google last year, my stock options would have netted me some serious change by now. I might regret that a bit, but I figure I'm happier close to my family |
| 19:23.58 | jlp_work | oakley networks is still private, so I don't consider my stock options here to actually be part of my compensation |
| 19:42.13 | jlp_work | Jayce^: my friend might be interested in UOL... what's the contact info? |
| 19:42.39 | jlp_work | (obfuscated: he might be interested in backcountry.com, also... I've already given him your contact info) |
| 19:44.06 | obfuscated | jlp_work: thx |
| 19:45.32 | Jayce^ | jlp_work, uoljobs.com (of course, personal reference is nice) |
| 19:45.47 | Jayce^ | also send the resume into me to forward along |
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| 19:48.56 | elg | -lart emcnabb |
| 19:49.47 | sjansen | Guru Labs is also hiring. Looking for someone that loves Linux, knows how to learn, knows how to teach, willing to travel. |
| 19:50.04 | jlp_work | wow, where were all you guys three years ago? |
| 19:50.26 | jlp_work | Jayce^: contact info? |
| 19:50.29 | elg | jlp_work was just jlp then |
| 19:50.37 | jlp_work | yes, I was :-( |
| 19:51.11 | jlp_work | part time work, small consulting gigs, struggling to pay my mortgage and going into debt. |
| 19:51.15 | jlp_work | it was a bad time |
| 19:52.06 | obfuscated | jlp_work: I was in the same situation - market's hot right now |
| 19:52.43 | jlp_work | then I picked up a part time contract, then a full time contract that lasted a year, then a job that sucked for a couple of months :-), then I got this one, which I love |
| 19:52.44 | sjansen | Did I mention that I ate at the Cheesecake factory last night? I'm planning on eating at Ruth's Chris tonight... My bosses are geeks. All of my co-workers are cool, smart people. |
| 19:53.08 | elg | ruth has a chris? |
| 19:53.09 | jlp_work | sjansen: if it wasn't for the travel, I'd even be interested. I love teaching people about cool stuff |
| 19:53.17 | sjansen | Yup, I'm pretty sure you all wish you worked for Guru Labs. Maybe you should apply. ;-) |
| 19:53.39 | sjansen | Ruth's Chris is a steak house. Expensive steak house. |
| 19:54.21 | elg | so it's steak made out of Chris |
| 19:54.31 | jlp_work | by Ruth |
| 19:54.40 | Ash | what's that old phrase again |
| 19:54.51 | Ash | "Those who can, do; those who can't, teach" |
| 19:55.54 | elg | more accurately, those who can, do and teach; those who can't pretend to teach |
| 19:56.15 | jlp_work | those who can't teach, teach PE |
| 19:56.41 | Hhhhh | ash, yea, that retarded phrase so often used as self-rationalization by school dropouts |
| 19:56.48 | Hhhhh | to pacify their minds |
| 19:56.55 | sjansen | jlp_work: You could just try it for a year. Get certified, learn a bunch, have fun. Hopefully a year from now we'll have our online learning stuff in place and there'll be less travelling. |
| 19:57.05 | Hhhhh | the best part is, it works for them (due to the simplicity of their minds) |
| 19:58.06 | sjansen | We're also partners with HP, so we're starting to help with their distance learning. I hear that HP is planning doing only distance learning and onsite training within a year. Again, that'll mean less travel. |
| 19:58.45 | jlp_work | although I haven't done it for quite a while |
| 19:59.30 | sjansen | Hhhhh: That doesn't explain why I've used it though. I'm graduated, and a teacher, so.... |
| 19:59.59 | sjansen | jlp_work: jobs@gurulabs.com |
| 20:06.15 | ^Migs^ | yeah, teaching doesn't take any work |
| 20:06.29 | ^Migs^ | just point the students to a bunch of web sites and they teach themselves |
| 20:07.33 | jlp_work | the thing I loved about teaching was being able to share anecdotal experiences with the class to help them avoid getting into problems that I'd encountered previously |
| 20:08.06 | levi | Those who can't do teach poorly. |
| 20:12.19 | *** join/#utah pmcnabb (n=peter@12-208-14-28.client.insightBB.com) |
| 20:18.43 | levi | Oooh, the 2.14 gnome-terminal is in Debian unstable now. |
| 20:23.33 | levi | Yay for fast gnome-terminal. |
| 20:25.34 | Hhhhh | jlp_work, MIB = Man In Black? |
| 20:25.44 | Hhhhh | Men In Black skin for emacs? |
| 20:26.19 | jlp_work | Hhhhh: MIB == SNMP Management Information Base |
| 20:28.31 | elg | jlp_work: real snmp gurus read MIB in binary |
| 20:28.54 | jlp_work | elg: it's not for reading it, it's for writing it |
| 20:29.06 | elg | they write MIB in unary |
| 20:29.18 | jlp_work | I've just been using vi, but then I thought "there has to be an emacs mode for this crap, doesn't there?" |
| 20:29.47 | jlp_work | and, of course, there does |
| 20:29.53 | *** part/#utah hell-ro (n=csavage@64.56.123.176) |
| 20:39.48 | sjansen | ^Migs^: Just a tip, I wouldn't say that during the interview. |
| 20:41.06 | *** join/#utah RyanE_ (n=ryan@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 20:42.10 | sjansen | Funny anecdote: last year we got a call from a partner that needed an instructor ASAP. Apparently, the original instructor showed up for class and said "The best way to learn is reading and doing. Here's your books, I'll be at my desk in the back of the classroom if you have any problems." |
| 20:42.31 | sjansen | Obviously, that didn't go over well with the students. I think goozbach ended up cleaning up after him. |
| 20:46.02 | ^Migs^ | wow |
| 20:46.25 | jlp_work | yeah, I can see that instructor being escorted out the door, never to return |
| 20:46.41 | jsmith | Yeah, no kidding... |
| 20:52.54 | sjansen | That was a fun month. Another week we got a call Monday from a different partner because the original instructor didn't show up... Again, I think goozbach had the honor of catching a flight that afternoon. |
| 20:53.26 | nick125 | http://www.tcpmp.org/ < why does it seem that TCPMP is heading towards closed-sourceness? |
| 20:53.37 | sjansen | The next week we got a call from the same partner because they'd forgotten to schedule an instructor. I was already on the road, but ended up teaching that class the week after. |
| 20:53.45 | nick125 | and nvidia is flaking out |
| 20:54.14 | sjansen | Don't let that discourage you from applying, however. Things aren't usually so crazy. ;-) |
| 20:57.37 | sjansen | http://www.lifehacker.com/images/2006/04/i-will-not-fix-your-mac.png |
| 20:58.11 | sjansen | http://www.lifehacker.com/software/makerfaire/hack-attack-maker-faire-highlights-169164.php |
| 20:58.13 | brac | [Hack Attack: Maker Faire Highlights - Lifehacker] |
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| 21:06.27 | elg | sjansen: does that mean she will fix my pc? |
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| 21:30.07 | neybar_work | test |
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| 21:31.46 | obfuscated | neybar: grade |
| 21:33.57 | Ash | Hhhhh: apparently you haven't been around many teachers? |
| 21:33.58 | Ash | Heh. |
| 21:33.58 | Ash | ;) |
| 21:34.16 | Hhhhh | Ash, I have been working for teachers for several years |
| 21:34.24 | Hhhhh | both in academia and in industry |
| 21:34.26 | Ash | Hhhhh: then perhaps you are in denial |
| 21:34.30 | Hhhhh | sure, denial |
| 21:34.35 | Hhhhh | Ash, look |
| 21:34.47 | Hhhhh | people in insudtry do things that 1000897897 people have done before |
| 21:34.54 | Hhhhh | people in academia do things that nobody else has done |
| 21:34.58 | Hhhhh | I rest my case |
| 21:35.23 | Ash | uh.. huh. |
| 21:35.41 | Ash | keep telling yourself that, buddy |
| 21:35.43 | Hhhhh | but you can go ahead, thinking that because you do web scripting or something, you're doing "something" as oppose to people that teach and do research |
| 21:35.49 | Hhhhh | sure I will, BUDDY |
| 21:36.00 | Ash | also, I was talking about "teachers", not academics as a whole. |
| 21:36.10 | Hhhhh | anybody with an educated opinion will agree with me. |
| 21:36.12 | Ash | typically researchers who are good get out of most teaching |
| 21:36.17 | Hhhhh | ha! |
| 21:36.28 | Hhhhh | is that supposed to show how much you know about academia? |
| 21:36.41 | Hhhhh | that's sad, I feel embarrased for you |
| 21:36.48 | Ash | my father in law is an assoc. dean so I know something about it. |
| 21:36.53 | jlp_work | Ash: not at byu, at least |
| 21:36.53 | Hhhhh | hahaha |
| 21:37.03 | Ash | jlp_work: Heh. |
| 21:37.04 | Hhhhh | jlp_work, I'm talking in general |
| 21:37.37 | Hhhhh | jlp_work, most researchers that are good don't get out of teaching |
| 21:37.38 | Ash | well, most of what I've seen is pre-tenure professors getting all the class loads while the tenured professors might teach one section per quarter |
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| 21:37.54 | Hhhhh | jlp_work, unless they land with a terrific job at Microsoft Research |
| 21:37.57 | Hhhhh | or something like that |
| 21:38.15 | Hhhhh | Ash, that happens, yea, but that has a lot to do with the contracts they have |
| 21:38.31 | Hhhhh | pre-tenure teachers are not tenured, and thus they're teaching grunt workers |
| 21:38.54 | Ash | precisely my point |
| 21:38.55 | Hhhhh | researchers teach 3-4 classes a year |
| 21:38.58 | Ash | thanks for your agreement |
| 21:39.04 | Hhhhh | 3-4 is hardly "getting out of teaching" btw |
| 21:39.08 | Hhhhh | so, no |
| 21:39.12 | jlp_work | man, I've seen some poor grunt teachers. especially at the community college. teaching six classes a semester! |
| 21:39.15 | jlp_work | yikes |
| 21:39.16 | Hhhhh | silly rabbit, Trix is not for kids |
| 21:39.54 | Ash | anyway, being grumpy about academia is not my thing. i was cracking a joke, chill out, etc. |
| 21:39.58 | Hhhhh | jlp_work, well, a community college and a university can be very different |
| 21:40.07 | Hhhhh | heh |
| 21:40.17 | Hhhhh | k, I'll let you pull out your statement then |
| 21:40.25 | Hhhhh | no biggie |
| 21:40.27 | Hhhhh | ;) |
| 21:40.41 | Ash | heh. |
| 21:40.47 | jlp_work | Hhhhh: we even had some poor saps who were not on "continuing status" at byu who had 3-4 classes a semester |
| 21:40.57 | Ash | jlp_work: yeah that stuff is awesome |
| 21:41.01 | Hhhhh | a semester ouch |
| 21:41.11 | Hhhhh | yea, I knew a teacher they had doing that |
| 21:41.15 | Hhhhh | and then they let him go |
| 21:41.19 | Hhhhh | it was sad |
| 21:41.33 | Hhhhh | I only heard his side of the story though |
| 21:41.35 | jlp_work | one guy I remember, Reinhard Franz, teaching four sections. then they didn't give him continuing status because he hadn't published anything |
| 21:41.53 | Hhhhh | I was his TA for his CS theory class |
| 21:42.04 | Ash | friend of my f-i-l worked at LSU for about 10 years and then denied tenure |
| 21:42.04 | Hhhhh | 4 sections and publishing, lol |
| 21:42.07 | Ash | totally awesome |
| 21:42.09 | jlp_work | (he was teaching four sections at byu and two more at UofU at one point) |
| 21:42.22 | Hhhhh | Ash, being denied tenure is not uncommon at all |
| 21:42.28 | Hhhhh | jlp_work, wtf? |
| 21:42.31 | Hhhhh | jlp_work, wow |
| 21:42.34 | Hhhhh | lol |
| 21:42.42 | Hhhhh | jlp_work, what major? |
| 21:42.49 | jlp_work | just trying to make ends meet... it was the math dept. |
| 21:42.54 | Hhhhh | heh |
| 21:43.01 | Hhhhh | the math dept. at BYU is screwed up |
| 21:43.02 | Ash | Hhhhh: no, but it was sad anyway. He'd done a huge amount of work, and totally turned around the department he was in, etc. |
| 21:43.21 | Hhhhh | I might work for them over the summer |
| 21:43.28 | Hhhhh | but this is a cool, young teacher |
| 21:44.22 | Hhhhh | Ash, yea, it's sad but it's not uncommon |
| 21:44.47 | Hhhhh | BYU underpays teachers anyways |
| 21:44.55 | Hhhhh | I would not ever teach there |
| 21:46.07 | jlp_work | Hhhhh: and I'd never work there again, either (unless by some quirk of fate I became independently wealthy) |
| 21:46.24 | jlp_work | they don't pay their staff much, either |
| 21:46.25 | Hhhhh | what did you do there? |
| 21:46.40 | jlp_work | systems administration for the math dept., 1989-1995 |
| 21:46.43 | Hhhhh | gotcha |
| 21:46.45 | Hhhhh | ugh |
| 21:46.56 | Hhhhh | sys admin for math dept now is TERRIBLE |
| 21:47.09 | jlp_work | Jim Logan not there any more? |
| 21:47.12 | Hhhhh | about 1/2 of the computers in the lab I have class in are broken |
| 21:47.20 | Hhhhh | i dunno |
| 21:47.29 | Hhhhh | I don't know many people working for the math dept. |
| 21:47.58 | levi | Jim Logan was the CS sysadmin when I was at BYU. |
| 21:48.05 | jlp_work | when I was there we had pretty good labs... second hand equipment for the most part (we didn't have much of a capital equipment budget) but everything worked. I had some great student employees who kept things going |
| 21:48.06 | levi | He was cool. |
| 21:48.17 | jlp_work | levi: yeah, Jim took over my job at the math dept. when I left |
| 21:48.33 | jlp_work | he was independently wealthy :-) |
| 21:49.08 | jlp_work | had done some stuff in singapore years ago and made enough money to live on the rest of his life. he only worked at byu so his kids could go to school there for half price |
| 21:49.32 | *** part/#utah ^Migs^ (i=Migs@205.122.50.21) |
| 21:50.33 | levi | Heh. |
| 21:50.38 | levi | Wouldn't that be nice. |
| 21:54.31 | jlp_work | looks like Reinhard is still at byu, but teaching in the college of engineering now |
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| 22:55.38 | obfuscated | "Hi, we're Microsoft. We invented the wheel...again...and again...and again..." |
| 22:56.37 | twob | nah, that's wrong, they just invented rotation and everything that rotates, wheel is just a new invention they own but didn't create. |
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| 22:57.04 | obfuscated | I'm just laughing at this new scripting language they released |
| 22:59.10 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 23:06.05 | levi | What new scripting language? |
| 23:11.32 | emcnabb | ~lart sjansen |
| 23:12.36 | obfuscated | ~slashdot |
| 23:12.44 | findlay | ~/. |
| 23:12.46 | obfuscated | Powershell RC1 |
| 23:12.54 | nick125 | rofl |
| 23:13.02 | nick125 | I got to see this |
| 23:13.18 | obfuscated | ~/o Powershell RC1 ~/o |
| 23:13.20 | ibot | ACTION sings with obfuscated |
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| 23:50.39 | Ash | powerlols |
| 23:51.58 | Ash | Powershell.. oh they renamed Monad |
| 23:52.01 | Ash | that makes sense |
