| 00:21.18 | *** join/#utah synic (n=synic@pdpc/supporter/student/synic) |
| 00:31.33 | *** join/#utah bertbob (n=bertbob@c-67-166-126-128.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 00:31.33 | findlay | heh, gmail is b0rk |
| 00:41.27 | findlay | anybody know why mail.google.com doesn't resolve? |
| 00:41.39 | nick125_ | resolves here |
| 00:41.53 | findlay | guess the internet is still broken |
| 00:43.04 | nick125_ | works here.. |
| 00:43.04 | findlay | hmm, this is interesting |
| 00:43.09 | findlay | look in #paste |
| 00:43.37 | findlay | <PROTECTED> |
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| 02:00.50 | elg | -lart vontrapp |
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| 02:01.20 | elg | ~lart brac |
| 02:01.25 | emcnabb | ~lart elg |
| 02:01.35 | elg | oh no! hotmal |
| 02:15.09 | emcnabb | I really like the name of Beagle's environmental variable to index at full speed: BEAGLE_EXERCISE_THE_DOG |
| 02:15.43 | emcnabb | it's catchy |
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| 03:32.46 | tensai | maquis: not real good with the passwords there are you |
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| 03:42.18 | findlay | this is not good |
| 03:42.27 | findlay | I can't access my email account |
| 03:42.39 | findlay | my isp has officially blocked gmail |
| 03:42.57 | atoponce | findlay: even through pop/imap? |
| 03:43.45 | atoponce | why would an isp block gmail? who's the isp? |
| 03:46.36 | findlay | veracity |
| 03:46.59 | findlay | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:46.59 | findlay | PING googlemail.l.google.com (216.239.63.83) 56(84) bytes of data. |
| 03:46.59 | findlay | From avaliable.octelecom.net (208.187.181.33) icmp_seq=1 Dest Unreachable, Bad Code: 10 |
| 03:53.24 | atoponce | maybe their dns is down? |
| 03:55.02 | maquis | tensai: erm... sorry |
| 03:55.10 | maquis | actually, it wasn't a password problem... |
| 03:55.14 | maquis | it was a username problem |
| 03:55.29 | maquis | but i didn't realize that until after i had blackhole'd myself |
| 03:55.40 | maquis | (i was on my server... i didn't remember what i was doing) |
| 03:55.47 | TheDiff | :o! |
| 03:55.51 | findlay | oooh, this is good (: |
| 03:55.51 | TheDiff | good morning! |
| 03:56.27 | findlay | as per RCF 1122 ICMP code 10 means: "communication with destination host administratively prohibited" |
| 03:56.40 | findlay | my ISP has officially blocked mail.google.com |
| 03:56.43 | findlay | hahaha |
| 03:56.44 | findlay | ! |
| 03:56.45 | atoponce | that's just odd to me. |
| 03:57.42 | atoponce | if i were you, i'd switch to another isp |
| 03:57.50 | atoponce | blocking gmail is just silly |
| 03:57.50 | findlay | atoponce: can't |
| 03:58.01 | atoponce | y? |
| 03:58.02 | findlay | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:58.07 | atoponce | ahh |
| 03:58.17 | findlay | although the uplink is iProvo |
| 03:58.27 | atoponce | ok then. move to another apt complex. :) |
| 03:58.29 | findlay | but they've throttled it way down |
| 03:58.38 | findlay | I might |
| 03:58.54 | findlay | as soon as xmission gets on iProvo ... |
| 03:59.04 | atoponce | you could vnc to another server, or remote desktop, if you have that option |
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| 04:02.18 | tensai | findlay: is it possible they've blocked just ICMP? |
| 04:02.28 | findlay | tensai: no, I've done traceroutes |
| 04:02.46 | tensai | fyi, traceroute is ICMP as well |
| 04:02.49 | tensai | try at tcptraceroute |
| 04:02.53 | tensai | s/at/a/ |
| 04:03.17 | tensai | it's retarded to block gmail, if they have |
| 04:03.42 | findlay | tensai: a browser just plain refuses to resolve mail.google.com |
| 04:03.46 | atoponce | yeah. i don't get why |
| 04:03.52 | findlay | my roomates are having the same problem |
| 04:04.01 | atoponce | does it refuse calendar.google.com? |
| 04:04.05 | tensai | findlay: ah, yeah. well, that's a little more definitive. |
| 04:04.23 | findlay | nope, I can ping calendar.google.com |
| 04:04.52 | tensai | don't let them get away with that crap. call them up and complain. |
| 04:04.55 | atoponce | so why block the ajax on gmail but not calendar? give them more time? ;) |
| 04:05.02 | findlay | although I pride myself as being the only octelecom customer who really knows what's going on (: |
| 04:05.13 | findlay | tensai: I'm just about to |
| 04:05.27 | findlay | hmm, wait, I don't have a mail client (: |
| 04:05.59 | findlay | ~lart gentoo for putting net utils in /usr/sbin |
| 04:06.33 | atoponce | although i shouldn't have to |
| 04:07.32 | findlay | http://pastebin.com/659022 |
| 04:07.40 | maquis | good uug meeting tonight... it was interesting |
| 04:07.48 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch@63-230-29-6.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 04:08.19 | findlay | ha, veracity.net's registrar is godaddy, lol |
| 04:08.32 | tensai | maquis: I bumped the # of failed logins permitted to 4 (from 3) since ssh clients try 3 times by default |
| 04:08.46 | maquis | tensai: thanks :) |
| 04:09.02 | findlay | actually it was tensai didn't want to be out secured by findlay |
| 04:09.06 | maquis | that would've been enough to get me in, if i remembered my password correctly :) |
| 04:09.19 | tensai | maquis: yeah, I realized when I saw the logs |
| 04:09.31 | findlay | oh, nevermind. I should read before I type |
| 04:10.26 | *** join/#utah hans (i=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 04:10.39 | hans | -lart lukfugl |
| 04:10.42 | hans | -lart vontrapp |
| 04:10.52 | tensai | dissention among the ranks |
| 04:10.52 | hans | -weather |
| 04:10.53 | brac | 20 minutes ago, on Fri Apr 14 03:51:00 UTC 2006, the wind was blowing at a speed of 3.60 meters per second (8.06 miles per hour) from the West/Northwest at KLRU. The temperature was 22 degrees Celsius (72 degrees Fahrenheit), and the pressure was 1017 hPa (30.00 inHg). The relative humidity was 17.2%. There were scattered clouds at a height of 3353 meters (11000 feet). |
| 04:11.10 | hans | it's not a mere 22 in here, that's for sure |
| 04:11.37 | findlay | ouch |
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| 04:21.10 | hans | so my really cool tv setup is really cool except the keyboard stops responding |
| 04:21.18 | hans | until I get back to X |
| 04:21.27 | hans | which isn't as bad as it sounds when I'm using my laptop as a remote |
| 04:21.32 | hans | but still not optimal. |
| 04:21.45 | QBFreak | must it be so difficult to print envelopes in linux.... |
| 04:31.59 | QBFreak | this is interesting, in NC you mail your state tax return to P.O. Box R (of the capital) if you have a return coming :) |
| 04:46.48 | findlay | well, I've confirmed the mail.google.com problem across 3 buildings |
| 04:46.48 | findlay | the sad part is that the other people think it's google's fault |
| 04:46.55 | findlay | until they check it at school tomorrow |
| 04:49.18 | findlay | maybe it's verio and they're trying to get some extortion money from google (: |
| 04:57.31 | *** join/#utah SpecialK (n=Bob@c-24-2-73-75.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 04:58.44 | findlay | ok, oct officially went from tolerable to evil |
| 04:58.58 | findlay | in fact, they're probably worse than oit |
| 05:07.11 | SpecialK | So how was the UUG meeting that I forgot about and only caught 5 minutes of? |
| 05:07.58 | findlay | SpecialK: you were there? |
| 05:08.19 | findlay | that guy that looked really special? |
| 05:15.52 | maquis | SpecialK: you should've come in |
| 05:16.14 | maquis | SpecialK: it as good |
| 05:16.14 | maquis | er |
| 05:16.16 | maquis | was |
| 05:16.22 | maquis | you missed out |
| 05:39.31 | *** join/#utah xbmodder_lappy (i=nobody@xbmodder.us) |
| 05:39.48 | xbmodder_lappy | I hate disney's DVDs |
| 05:39.53 | xbmodder_lappy | They are so anti-linux |
| 05:40.05 | xbmodder_lappy | and most of their rendering is done on linux machines iirc |
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| 05:54.24 | findlay | where can I get torrents of the Star Wars trilogy? |
| 05:54.48 | findlay | just seeing if anybody's awake |
| 05:54.52 | linuxalien | hehe |
| 05:54.52 | findlay | (: |
| 05:55.09 | xbmodder_lappy | ... |
| 05:55.15 | xbmodder_lappy | ~lart findlay |
| 05:55.47 | findlay | I give the MPAA 5 minutes before they knock on my front door |
| 05:55.50 | xbmodder_lappy | Did wendy's recover from the finger in the chile thing (even though it was BS)? |
| 05:56.17 | findlay | xbmodder_lappy: yeah, Wendy, although still shaken, seems to be on her way to full recovery |
| 06:05.36 | xbmodder_lappy | Anyone knows how to play "chicken little" under Linux? |
| 06:05.46 | xbmodder_lappy | in mplayer |
| 06:06.23 | QBFreak | try something like mplayer dvd://1 |
| 06:06.38 | QBFreak | should play the first feature on the DVD |
| 06:08.08 | QBFreak | speaking of which, I believe it is time to watch dvd://2 :) |
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| 06:26.06 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch@63-230-29-6.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 06:29.21 | xbmodder_lappy | Playing dvd://. |
| 06:29.22 | xbmodder_lappy | libdvdread: Could not open /dev/hdc with libdvdcss. |
| 06:29.22 | xbmodder_lappy | libdvdread: Can't open /dev/hdc for reading |
| 06:29.22 | xbmodder_lappy | Couldn't open DVD device: /dev/hdc |
| 06:29.22 | xbmodder_lappy | [file] No filename |
| 06:29.23 | xbmodder_lappy | Failed to open dvd:// |
| 06:29.59 | QBFreak | funness |
| 06:39.01 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch@63-230-29-6.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 06:43.37 | findlay | xbmodder_lappy: ask the mplayer mailing list |
| 06:43.50 | findlay | and give Disney a sound larting |
| 06:43.55 | xbmodder_lappy | I popped it into the M$ product (xbox) |
| 06:44.32 | QBFreak | and it melted! |
| 06:44.46 | findlay | xbmodder_lappy: No! Never give up! Never surrender! |
| 06:44.46 | QBFreak | (both the DVD and the xbox) |
| 06:44.56 | findlay | Activate the Omega-13!! |
| 06:45.05 | QBFreak | by grapthars hammer! |
| 06:45.11 | QBFreak | we will avenge it! |
| 06:45.48 | QBFreak | the concept of the movie was awesome |
| 06:48.23 | findlay | speaking of which: http://motherjones.com/news/exhibit/2006/03/intellectual_property.html |
| 06:48.24 | brac | [Intellectual Property Run Amok] |
| 06:48.27 | findlay | ahahahah |
| 06:48.50 | findlay | some people are just isolated in their happy little world |
| 06:53.47 | maquis | i <3 my camera |
| 07:01.09 | findlay | E> |
| 07:32.00 | QBFreak | m |
| 07:32.01 | QBFreak | v |
| 07:35.22 | maquis | lol |
| 07:35.24 | maquis | M |
| 07:35.25 | maquis | V |
| 07:35.28 | maquis | n |
| 07:35.30 | maquis | er |
| 07:35.31 | maquis | m |
| 07:35.33 | maquis | V |
| 07:35.42 | QBFreak | ^ |
| 07:35.43 | QBFreak | w |
| 07:36.28 | QBFreak | I tried |
| 07:36.40 | QBFreak | they didn't leave me with very good letters |
| 07:42.03 | QBFreak | bed time! |
| 12:27.13 | goozbach | morning utah |
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| 13:08.40 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 13:09.04 | elg | quick poll, if anyone's up |
| 13:09.09 | elg | should this work? |
| 13:09.26 | elg | modprobe bcm43xx; iwconfig eth1 essid foo; ip link set up eth1; ifup eth1 |
| 13:09.37 | elg | well, instead of ifup say you run udhcpc -i eth1 |
| 13:09.54 | elg | the question is, should it work to call iwconfig before bringing the link up |
| 13:10.14 | elg | and more specifically, _does_ it work on your wireless device other than bcm43xx |
| 13:10.57 | goozbach | iwconfig should be set before ip, if you want to asscsiate with a specific ESSID |
| 13:11.06 | goozbach | morning BTW |
| 13:11.26 | elg | morning |
| 13:11.51 | elg | goozbach: _should_ is even better. :) do you know somewhere where that's said by any authority? |
| 13:12.22 | elg | trying to convince the bcm43xx devs that it's broken. :) |
| 13:12.40 | elg | well, only one has replied, but he thinks it's intended behavior |
| 13:25.29 | goozbach | elg: I don't remember where I read that |
| 13:25.57 | goozbach | but logically it holds |
| 13:26.07 | goozbach | you have to associate before you get a lease |
| 13:26.12 | goozbach | layer 2 before layer 3 |
| 13:28.12 | elg | yeah, it makes sense |
| 13:29.43 | goozbach | anyone here familiar with big brother (system monitor not guy from 1984) |
| 13:29.56 | goozbach | I'd like a (free as in speach) alternative |
| 13:30.11 | elg | you want mon |
| 13:30.13 | elg | if you ask me |
| 13:30.17 | elg | lots disagree with me |
| 13:30.20 | elg | then there's nagios |
| 13:30.22 | elg | and there's monit |
| 13:30.36 | elg | I wouldn't touch nagios with a ten foot pole, but I wouldn't touch bb with a 20 foot pole |
| 13:31.46 | goozbach | BB is real big here |
| 13:31.51 | goozbach | I just looked at it |
| 13:31.55 | goozbach | I don't like it |
| 13:32.06 | goozbach | mostly for it's "better than free" licence |
| 13:32.17 | goozbach | better than free my arse |
| 13:35.57 | goozbach | nagios looks cool |
| 13:36.09 | goozbach | why the ten foot pole? |
| 13:36.47 | elg | it's a dog |
| 13:36.52 | elg | looks cool, but you grow to hate it |
| 13:37.07 | elg | I really like mon. simple, elegant, easy, flexible, powerful |
| 13:37.17 | elg | monit seems cool too but I haven't looked at it closely |
| 13:37.39 | elg | mon and cacti together are the way I went |
| 13:39.44 | goozbach | hmm |
| 13:39.56 | goozbach | dog, how? |
| 13:40.02 | goozbach | sorry to play the skeptic |
| 13:40.57 | elg | no problem. I love to rant against nagios. usually it just starts a flame war, but today's saturday so maybe I'll get the last word. :) |
| 13:41.15 | elg | the web interface is STUPID. static. frames. in C! |
| 13:41.45 | elg | the web interface is klunky. it looks nice at first but you have to click through lots of screens to do many common tasks |
| 13:41.48 | goozbach | elg: you might want to get to work |
| 13:41.52 | goozbach | it's FRIDAY |
| 13:41.55 | goozbach | :) |
| 13:42.04 | elg | oh sorry, it is friday. Just feels like saturday. :)the configuration is terrible |
| 13:42.11 | elg | it's a school holiday |
| 13:42.16 | elg | easter, er, spring holiday |
| 13:42.17 | goozbach | ahh |
| 13:42.32 | *** join/#utah RyanE_ (n=ryan@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 13:42.33 | elg | it takes way too much configuration to do simple things |
| 13:42.43 | elg | and way too much more to do complicated things |
| 13:42.48 | goozbach | just wanted to make sure you weren't lounging in your boxers when you should be at work or something |
| 13:43.03 | goozbach | the frames thing is enough to disuade me |
| 13:43.05 | elg | lots of repetition in the config file, you have to change things in 3 or more places usually |
| 13:43.23 | elg | you mean i have to stop ranting? :) |
| 13:43.42 | Jayce | goozbach, no action shots yet, but here's one guys photos of our event http://halls.lug-nut.com/gallery/friends/Paintball/Green%20River%2C%20April%2006/ |
| 13:43.44 | brac | [Index of: /gallery/friends/Paintball/Green River, April 06] |
| 13:44.18 | goozbach | Jayce: /msg me that link |
| 13:44.25 | goozbach | so I can look at it after work |
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| 13:45.56 | goozbach | elg: by all means continue |
| 13:46.08 | goozbach | who am I to stop a rant |
| 13:46.09 | goozbach | ? |
| 13:47.49 | elg | well those are the major points. it's hard to overemphasize the bad configuration |
| 13:48.39 | elg | one of the big programming catchwords these days is DRY - don't repeat yourself. i know configs aren't programming but the same principle holds. I don't like entering the same information verbosely 5 times |
| 13:50.06 | goozbach | I don't like entering and specifying and delinating the same informaton multiple diverse different times |
| 13:50.10 | elg | http://hans.fugal.net/typo/articles/2005/04/08/mon there's my rather tame blog entry about switching to mon |
| 13:50.11 | brac | [Good-bye, Nagios.] |
| 13:50.26 | elg | goozbach: good, then you and nagios will hate eachother |
| 13:50.52 | elg | nagios is by far the 800 pound gorilla in this area, when it comes to free anyway |
| 13:50.58 | elg | very popular |
| 13:51.23 | goozbach | s/tame/lame/ :) |
| 13:51.37 | elg | hey! ;-) |
| 13:52.46 | elg | anyone know how to wrangle deskbar keybinding? |
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| 14:37.30 | goozbach | stupid cold |
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| 14:54.49 | dataw0lf | anyone know how I'd go about chrooting an existing process or thread pool? |
| 14:55.14 | dataw0lf | that's already accessing non chrooted files |
| 14:55.34 | dataw0lf | and needs to maintain a pipe to those files |
| 14:59.59 | vontrapp | argh, i have recurring problems with "Lost connection to mysql server during query" from this spyce app |
| 15:02.48 | Tristan__ | I just read the conversation about Nagios |
| 15:03.48 | Tristan__ | have you seen GroundWork Monitor Open Source yet? |
| 15:03.57 | Tristan__ | http://www.groundworkopensource.com/products/os-overview.html |
| 15:03.58 | brac | [GroundWork - Monitor - Monitor network availability and performance] |
| 15:04.27 | Tristan__ | It is a new front-end to Nagios |
| 15:04.44 | Tristan__ | Makes configuration a LOT easier |
| 15:04.53 | Tristan__ | perhaps a nicer GUI as well |
| 15:05.10 | Tristan__ | and of course, this part is open source (they also sell a professional version) |
| 15:07.18 | dataw0lf | vontrapp: What exception is it throwing? |
| 15:07.21 | dataw0lf | OperationalError? |
| 15:07.29 | goozbach | I'd perfer the completlehy open source one |
| 15:08.48 | vontrapp | dataw0lf: OperationalError |
| 15:09.34 | dataw0lf | vontrapp: is the server dying? |
| 15:09.46 | vontrapp | i just reload the page again after that and it works |
| 15:09.59 | vontrapp | so it's still up after the fact, don't know why it's losing connection |
| 15:09.59 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 15:10.14 | Tristan__ | it is completely open source |
| 15:10.15 | dataw0lf | vontrapp: are you closing your cursors? |
| 15:10.28 | Tristan__ | it is nagios + an open source front-end |
| 15:10.41 | vontrapp | got me. at least that's something to dig for now... |
| 15:10.55 | vontrapp | would that just be cursor.close()? |
| 15:11.06 | dataw0lf | vontrapp: which db api are you using? |
| 15:11.13 | dataw0lf | dir(cursor) |
| 15:11.17 | *** join/#utah drewbono (n=andrew@128.187.146.229) |
| 15:11.24 | elg | goozbach: see, the friends of nagios have arrived |
| 15:11.30 | dataw0lf | will give you a list of methods (and attributes) |
| 15:11.39 | elg | just remember that we nagios haters get up earlier in the morning |
| 15:12.06 | vontrapp | looks like it's borrowed from picalo |
| 15:13.01 | dataw0lf | elg: yea, to fix nagios. |
| 15:13.19 | dataw0lf | vontrapp: Picalo is based on Python. |
| 15:13.36 | elg | dataw0lf: hm? |
| 15:13.50 | dataw0lf | elg: we get up earlier because we have to fix that beast. |
| 15:13.58 | dataw0lf | or don't go to sleep at all! |
| 15:14.02 | elg | hehe |
| 15:15.01 | vontrapp | what exactly does "select a.created::int::abstime::date::varchar" mean? |
| 15:15.05 | elg | aw, be consistent, you're just flailing around like a lubed up squid! |
| 15:15.35 | dataw0lf | vontrapp: uh. no. idea. |
| 15:15.36 | dataw0lf | :D |
| 15:15.38 | dataw0lf | elg: hehe |
| 15:16.04 | vontrapp | nobody seems to know |
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| 15:16.19 | vontrapp | -lart elg |
| 15:16.20 | elg | that would be because it looks almost as insane as nagios configs |
| 15:16.33 | vontrapp | lol |
| 15:16.45 | dataw0lf | almost being the keyword there |
| 15:17.03 | elg | it looks like it might be getting the created field, then converting to int then to abstime then to date then to varchar |
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| 15:19.18 | elg | i'd guess each in sequence |
| 15:19.44 | elg | the as created at the end (which you left off here) I'm guessing is accessed by whatever did this as a varchar |
| 15:20.24 | vontrapp | yes, strange_query << " as created" |
| 15:23.20 | vontrapp | bah, a hard coded string match in an object query, just what i need to worry about |
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| 15:54.09 | elg | -lart vontrapp |
| 15:59.54 | Hhhhhh | ~rlart |
| 16:00.01 | Hhhhhh | meh |
| 16:00.16 | Hhhhhh | stupid ibot |
| 16:00.22 | Hhhhhh | -lart elg |
| 16:00.23 | Hhhhhh | -lart elg |
| 16:00.29 | Hhhhhh | I like brac better |
| 16:05.46 | elg | ~hug Hhhhhh |
| 16:05.48 | ibot | ACTION hugs Hhhhhh |
| 16:22.13 | atoponce | -lart ibot |
| 16:22.22 | atoponce | ~lart brac |
| 16:27.10 | atoponce | -lart brac |
| 16:27.21 | atoponce | ~lart ibot |
| 16:27.25 | atoponce | :) |
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| 17:21.32 | maquis | -lart SpecialZ_ |
| 17:21.51 | shadow_moon | can vi run on a commodore 64? |
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| 17:55.31 | findlay | sweet |
| 17:55.58 | elg | bitter |
| 17:56.17 | findlay | it is a thankless task but without me, no one on veracity would have access to their gmail |
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| 17:57.44 | elg | ibot will thank you |
| 17:58.04 | elg | if you ask him to |
| 17:58.27 | atoponce | findlay: what ended up happening? |
| 17:58.35 | atoponce | ~thank findlay |
| 17:58.35 | ibot | gern geschehen, atoponce |
| 17:59.15 | findlay | atoponce: they had mail.google.com blocked on one of their routers |
| 17:59.34 | findlay | they didn't tell me how it happened |
| 17:59.40 | atoponce | so did you call them, and they opened it back up? |
| 18:00.02 | findlay | no I emailed the administrative contact from the whois info |
| 18:00.21 | findlay | on octelecom.net |
| 18:01.05 | findlay | so they must have some automated rules to dynamically block IPs |
| 18:02.22 | atoponce | retarded, inho |
| 18:02.35 | atoponce | s/inho/imho |
| 18:03.39 | QBFreak | ~rlart |
| 18:03.45 | QBFreak | ooo nice |
| 18:03.53 | QBFreak | atoponce: he's on to you |
| 18:04.15 | atoponce | that's because i tried to get him to lart himself! |
| 18:04.23 | atoponce | ibot: forgive men 70 times 7 |
| 18:04.24 | ibot | Well, men 70 times 7 boy, I guess I could do that. But I believe forgiving is God's job, I'm just arranging the meeting. *blows men 70 times 7 head apart with .44 magnum* |
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| 18:20.50 | gthornock | -lart veracity |
| 18:21.48 | robdor | findlay: you tech support for veracity? |
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| 18:32.57 | findlay | robdor: no, but I contacted them |
| 18:34.06 | findlay | actually not tech support but somebody who knew what was going on |
| 18:34.28 | robdor | their tech support is terrible.... |
| 18:37.49 | QBFreak | mheath: many people feel the need to close everything they're not immediately using |
| 18:37.59 | QBFreak | as if the computer can't handle more than one thing |
| 18:38.42 | QBFreak | personally I run IRSSI through screen on a headless box so its always on :) |
| 18:39.14 | maquis | spam asking for gmail invites.. go figure |
| 18:43.37 | mheath | What annoys me most, is I set up a user acount for all of them |
| 18:43.44 | mheath | and showed them how to switch over, without closing out my stuff =\ |
| 18:43.52 | mheath | Yet they just use my account, and close everything I'm running |
| 18:44.14 | mheath | Which has led to, for example, a download I was expecting to be ready when I got home to be barely complete |
| 18:46.23 | findlay | QBFreak: perhaps those people have never tasted the goodness of multiple desktops which allows you to put windows out of sight and out of mind (: |
| 18:47.16 | mheath | Heh, indeed :) |
| 18:47.31 | findlay | mheath: maybe you should yourself logout when you leave |
| 18:47.48 | mheath | yeah =\ |
| 18:48.09 | mheath | I wonder if I could script xscreensaver to log me out after a set time |
| 18:48.43 | findlay | xscreensaver can lock the screen but gdm isn't graceful enough to handle things nicely |
| 18:49.31 | findlay | like if you want to log into a computer where somebody else already has a session running you have to dig through their menu to find a new login |
| 18:50.00 | findlay | with kdm though you can login as a new user from the screensaver password dialog |
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| 19:09.11 | elg | just set up another x session on another vt |
| 19:09.17 | elg | and switch to it before you leav |
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| 20:18.39 | findlay | I love being a genius |
| 20:27.55 | shadow_moon | What does spelling have to do with linux? |
| 20:28.21 | findlay | ~spell linux |
| 20:29.58 | shadow_moon | How do you know your a genius? |
| 20:30.06 | shadow_moon | Just out of curiosity. |
| 20:31.23 | herlo | shadow_moon: because parted command won't work unless you spell mklabel correctly |
| 20:31.42 | shadow_moon | hmm |
| 20:31.50 | shadow_moon | mklable isn't right? |
| 20:31.51 | shadow_moon | :) |
| 20:32.02 | herlo | nope, and that's what I typed.... |
| 20:32.13 | herlo | the first time |
| 20:32.17 | shadow_moon | I haven't used parted much. |
| 20:32.21 | herlo | me neither |
| 20:32.28 | herlo | learning is such fun |
| 20:32.36 | shadow_moon | I've been using reiserfs and lvm. |
| 20:32.48 | shadow_moon | it is nice I can grow online and only have to unmount to shrink. |
| 20:32.50 | herlo | sudo parted /dev/sda "mklable msdos mkpartfs primary ext2 0 21 mkpartfs primary ext2 22 -0 set 1 boot on" |
| 20:33.04 | herlo | lvm with raid? |
| 20:33.06 | shadow_moon | Oh that looks scary. |
| 20:33.07 | shadow_moon | No |
| 20:33.11 | shadow_moon | just lvm on a single disk |
| 20:33.24 | shadow_moon | but since I dual boot I like to have the space be more flexible. |
| 20:33.28 | herlo | we have a 1.8TB lvm system using both software and hardware raid 5 here at home |
| 20:33.41 | shadow_moon | lvm is the way to go. |
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| 20:33.57 | shadow_moon | I have no idea how it affects performance but it is so nice when you have to find disk space. |
| 20:33.58 | herlo | agreed, and the parted stuff isn't that bad, just makes two partitions, one is boot |
| 20:34.13 | shadow_moon | I love cfdisk. |
| 20:34.19 | shadow_moon | I can't stand fdisk |
| 20:34.26 | nick125_treo- | hey, I need some recommendations for some mobile blogging software that works on palm |
| 20:34.36 | shadow_moon | vi? |
| 20:34.44 | shadow_moon | just kidding. |
| 20:34.54 | herlo | lvm has virtually no performance problems, at least not what we've seen and we stream off of it all the time using jfs |
| 20:35.19 | shadow_moon | My only complaint is that ut2004 takes forever to load. |
| 20:35.19 | nick125_treo- | lvm is good stuff :p |
| 20:35.37 | shadow_moon | But I don't know that lvm has anything to dlo with the load time. |
| 20:36.03 | herlo | a little bit, but not much |
| 20:36.38 | nick125 | you know what would be nice to figure out first...what blog to use first.. |
| 20:36.40 | shadow_moon | I'm dying to try reiser4 but I have yet to have a stable kernel after trying to get it built. |
| 20:36.50 | nick125 | I was looking at using mo:blog.. |
| 20:37.04 | shadow_moon | Also since it lacks online resizing I'm not ready to replace reiserfs with it yet. |
| 20:37.22 | herlo | nick125: when you figure out a good blog, let me know, I am gonna buy a treo at the end of the month |
| 20:37.51 | herlo | shadow_moon: what lacks resizing? reiser4? |
| 20:38.06 | nick125 | its $15 for mo:blog though..hrm |
| 20:38.14 | shadow_moon | Yes |
| 20:38.17 | shadow_moon | reiser4 |
| 20:38.24 | shadow_moon | you have to drop and recreate. |
| 20:38.54 | herlo | shadow_moon: that sucks, with jfs and xfs I know they are resizable |
| 20:38.54 | shadow_moon | I think most partion edits require reboot. |
| 20:39.03 | shadow_moon | reiserfs is too. |
| 20:39.13 | herlo | well, its just a flash drive, so maybe I can just unmount and remount |
| 20:39.21 | shadow_moon | hm |
| 20:39.26 | shadow_moon | probably. |
| 20:39.57 | shadow_moon | Anyone here have amotorcycle recomendation for a starter bike? |
| 20:40.13 | shadow_moon | I know it is off topic. I just want a bike. |
| 20:40.25 | herlo | I am looking too, strange but true |
| 20:40.42 | shadow_moon | I rode dirt bikes as a kid so I want to start small. |
| 20:40.47 | herlo | I saw a good deal on craigslist for a 1984 Honda 700 |
| 20:40.55 | herlo | good cruising bike |
| 20:40.56 | shadow_moon | I don't want to kill myself or feel bad about laying one down. |
| 20:41.09 | herlo | $700 is about that price right? |
| 20:41.12 | shadow_moon | Cool. |
| 20:41.18 | shadow_moon | I could do that I think. |
| 20:41.26 | herlo | let me see if its still there |
| 20:42.13 | herlo | this isn't the one, but its good http://saltlakecity.craigslist.org/mcy/151068223.html |
| 20:42.57 | nick125 | oo..i think i found a free blogging tool for palm |
| 20:43.09 | shadow_moon | that is a nice bike. |
| 20:44.05 | nick125_treo- | brb |
| 20:44.19 | herlo | yeah, I love craigslist |
| 20:44.28 | nick125 | so.. |
| 20:44.28 | shadow_moon | I'm in Omaha. |
| 20:44.36 | nick125 | I'm thinking of using wordpress for a blog.. |
| 20:44.38 | shadow_moon | The bikes on the list here are way overpriced. |
| 20:44.39 | herlo | oh, well check out the omaha listing |
| 20:44.56 | shadow_moon | There is a nice one for a 1,000 |
| 20:45.03 | herlo | nick125: I love wordpress....I am a little disappointed in their support, but otherwise its quite nice. |
| 20:45.05 | shadow_moon | but it looked alittle big for my first bike. |
| 20:45.30 | herlo | the only thing I have a problem with is that when I try to blog from my gmail, it wont include the body for some crazy reason.... |
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| 20:58.58 | sjansen | ~rlart |
| 21:01.31 | maquis | -lart sjansen |
| 21:02.24 | tensai | elg: my prism54 card allows me to set the essid, etc. before I bring it up |
| 21:02.38 | sjansen | maquis: little did you know I may never use that tp again 'cause I'm moving starting today |
| 21:02.40 | tensai | ~lart sjansen |
| 21:02.57 | sjansen | ~eat worms |
| 21:02.58 | ibot | ACTION eats worms and falls over dead |
| 21:02.58 | maquis | sjansen: moving? where? |
| 21:03.08 | maquis | ~go eat worms |
| 21:03.09 | ibot | o/~ nobody likes me, everybody hates me, i guess i'll go eat worms o/~ |
| 21:03.16 | shadow_moon | ? |
| 21:03.28 | herlo | just bite off their heads, suck out the juice, and throw the skins away!!! |
| 21:03.31 | herlo | dun dun dun |
| 21:03.46 | maquis | shadow_moon: have you never heard/sung that before? |
| 21:03.48 | herlo | because nobody likes them |
| 21:03.53 | sjansen | maquis: to Florida, goozbach offered me a position as his lackey |
| 21:04.02 | elg | tensai: thanks |
| 21:05.16 | shadow_moon | maquis: nope |
| 21:05.17 | sjansen | I'll bring him donuts every day, massage his feet, then help him improve his paintball skills by hiding in the office while he hunts me. |
| 21:05.39 | shadow_moon | What are good things to do by yourself on a Friday night. |
| 21:05.47 | elg | hack |
| 21:05.48 | shadow_moon | That don't involve bars or or other people? |
| 21:06.03 | elg | find your favorite oss project and squash bugs |
| 21:06.10 | tensai | wanton destruction of private property |
| 21:06.14 | shadow_moon | Oh and I can't be at home. |
| 21:06.18 | elg | or wonton destruction |
| 21:06.26 | elg | internet cafe |
| 21:06.29 | tensai | or wantan |
| 21:06.31 | shadow_moon | I like wontons though. |
| 21:06.32 | sjansen | Go to the library and hit on the librarians. |
| 21:06.35 | maquis | shadow_moon: ?? |
| 21:06.40 | elg | what do you think happens when you chew them? |
| 21:06.43 | maquis | shadow_moon: why can't you be at home or with people? |
| 21:06.46 | elg | sjansen has a good idea |
| 21:06.49 | elg | but it involves people |
| 21:06.54 | elg | and assumes cute librarians |
| 21:07.00 | shadow_moon | cause I don't know anyone that isnt' busy. |
| 21:07.03 | tensai | elg: but not like real people |
| 21:07.05 | elg | but you can go to the library and read a tom clancy novel |
| 21:07.11 | shadow_moon | And I'm in the process of going through a divorce and my home is very lonely. |
| 21:07.19 | maquis | oh... sucky |
| 21:07.19 | shadow_moon | Library actually closes early on Friday. |
| 21:07.39 | herlo | shadow_moon: so that the librarians can go to the bars... |
| 21:07.40 | maquis | shadow_moon: laptop? |
| 21:07.46 | sjansen | shadow_moon: In what area do you live? |
| 21:07.49 | shadow_moon | lol I gues sso. |
| 21:07.50 | shadow_moon | Omaha |
| 21:07.51 | elg | well there's always irc |
| 21:07.55 | tensai | stroll through the graveyard |
| 21:07.57 | elg | cow tipping |
| 21:07.59 | shadow_moon | hmm |
| 21:08.02 | herlo | mmmm, irc.... <homer> |
| 21:08.03 | shadow_moon | not too many cows |
| 21:08.08 | shadow_moon | and I don't think it works. |
| 21:08.18 | shadow_moon | Being from WI I never saw it happen. |
| 21:08.27 | maquis | take a laptop someplace where people will be, and hang out on irc and work on OSS projects |
| 21:08.32 | shadow_moon | lol |
| 21:08.34 | herlo | shadow_moon: I actually tried it when I was 15, the cows move too fast.... |
| 21:08.38 | shadow_moon | Bet it was messy and |
| 21:08.47 | tensai | cows aren't *that* stupid |
| 21:08.52 | herlo | pretty much |
| 21:08.58 | herlo | its like snipe hunting |
| 21:09.21 | shadow_moon | We had a kid going so good. His dad had to finnally tell him it wasn't real. |
| 21:09.36 | shadow_moon | He thought we ate all the snipes before he got back. |
| 21:09.40 | elg | snipes or cows? |
| 21:09.43 | sjansen | Physical activity while clear your mind and promote enodorphine production. I suggest picking a favorite libraries, then following her home on your bike. |
| 21:09.43 | elg | hehe |
| 21:09.55 | shadow_moon | lol |
| 21:09.56 | tensai | the other good joke is telling somebody that desktop linux exists |
| 21:09.59 | elg | hope she doesn't take the freeway |
| 21:10.02 | shadow_moon | I'm not quite ready for that but thanks. |
| 21:11.47 | tensai | s/spelling/speling/ |
| 21:12.08 | shadow_moon | only one l in spelling? |
| 21:12.23 | tensai | yeah, the other one is out tipping cows |
| 21:12.31 | shadow_moon | lol |
| 21:12.34 | herlo | LOL |
| 21:12.51 | herlo | or snipe hunting |
| 21:13.03 | shadow_moon | that would be speing |
| 21:13.11 | shadow_moon | cause the ll's would be busy. |
| 21:13.35 | sjansen | Join a gym. Find a volunteer organization. Learn to weld. Spend one Friday packing, the next friday unpacking. |
| 21:13.45 | shadow_moon | lol |
| 21:13.49 | shadow_moon | I like the packign unpacking |
| 21:13.54 | herlo | stare at a movie screen for three hours, and then realize how bad american movies are |
| 21:14.25 | SpecialZ_ | and another country makes better movies? |
| 21:14.27 | shadow_moon | Gym would be good. |
| 21:14.28 | tensai | join the army, visit exotic places, meet interesting people. and kill them |
| 21:14.36 | sjansen | Write your own blogging software 'cause the world doesn't have enough yet. |
| 21:14.36 | elg | SpecialZ_: yeah, new zealand |
| 21:14.37 | shadow_moon | I like hong kong movies. |
| 21:14.37 | maquis | SpecialZ_: you obviously haven't watched enough chinese movies |
| 21:14.40 | elg | but they're released in the us |
| 21:14.43 | herlo | SpecialZ_: yes, every other country |
| 21:14.43 | shadow_moon | and Japanese cartoons. |
| 21:14.49 | SpecialZ_ | My roommate watches them |
| 21:15.11 | maquis | elg: you haven't seen the wedding banquet :) |
| 21:15.22 | maquis | to live is pretty good too |
| 21:15.23 | SpecialZ_ | Can't say I've spent anytime in Omaha so I don't have any ideas |
| 21:15.23 | shadow_moon | Howl's moving castle is good. |
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| 21:15.41 | herlo | SpecialZ_: the trick is if you want to use your brain during a movie, watch a foreign film. I know, I know, you gotta read unless you understand their language, but its not THAT hard!! |
| 21:15.41 | SpecialZ_ | I liked Howl's but the ending was a bit off |
| 21:15.48 | shadow_moon | off? |
| 21:15.57 | shadow_moon | wrapped up to nicely or from the book? |
| 21:16.22 | SpecialZ_ | shadow_moon, too nicely with a couple of random events |
| 21:17.01 | herlo | what's wrong with this command? chroot /mnt/buildroot /bin/su -l |
| 21:17.05 | shadow_moon | Yeah I can see that. But it was fun seeing the dog in the hour glass and Solomon's comments about being a naught dog. |
| 21:17.10 | SpecialZ_ | I watched "Place Promised in our Younger Days" this week. It was likewise off in lack of resolution. |
| 21:17.11 | maquis | shadow_moon: if you're really busy, i've got some homework i could lend you |
| 21:17.20 | shadow_moon | lol |
| 21:17.24 | sjansen | Read Guiness Book of World Records cover to cover, then pick your favorite world record and beat it. |
| 21:17.26 | maquis | s/busy/bored |
| 21:17.52 | herlo | maquis: no one wants to do your homework for you.... |
| 21:18.18 | maquis | herlo: just trying to help him out |
| 21:18.20 | maquis | :) |
| 21:18.24 | herlo | can anyone help me with the command above |
| 21:18.25 | maquis | sjansen: that'd be great! :) |
| 21:18.30 | herlo | chroot |
| 21:18.37 | sjansen | Please excuse maquis from the this weeks assignment. She died yesterday. Her doctor doesn't expect her to get better until after the semester. |
| 21:18.52 | herlo | and then she's transferring |
| 21:19.03 | herlo | k, seriously: chroot /mnt/buildroot /bin/su -l |
| 21:19.04 | maquis | herlo: i've always done it with chroot /mnt/buildroot /bin/bash |
| 21:19.06 | herlo | help? |
| 21:19.09 | sjansen | herlo: I've had problems using chroot with commands that include options. |
| 21:19.21 | herlo | damned options |
| 21:19.34 | sjansen | I get around it by putting them in a script and running that. |
| 21:19.39 | tensai | that's what's so great about communism, no options |
| 21:19.42 | herlo | btw, these are instructions from dataw0lf's buddy |
| 21:19.46 | shadow_moon | What is a good place to meet people besides a bar? |
| 21:19.50 | shadow_moon | park ? |
| 21:20.01 | tensai | I hear churches are popular |
| 21:20.05 | maquis | library -- the periodicals section |
| 21:20.06 | sjansen | Malls. The best part? If they're employees, they can't run far. |
| 21:20.09 | tensai | or the supermarket |
| 21:20.10 | shadow_moon | what does su -l do? |
| 21:20.21 | shadow_moon | I don't want to freak them out. |
| 21:20.22 | herlo | cemetary late at night, all the good horror flicks have girls and guys meeting there... |
| 21:20.29 | elg | central park. that's where they meet in the movies |
| 21:20.30 | maquis | shadow_moon: apparently, it simulates a full login |
| 21:20.32 | shadow_moon | I'm slightly older than most mall employees. |
| 21:20.45 | herlo | maquis: the /bin/bash worked thx |
| 21:20.50 | maquis | herlo: np |
| 21:20.50 | elg | kinda far from omaha though |
| 21:20.54 | sjansen | That same thing as su -. It makes the su act like a login session, ie read the shell config files. |
| 21:20.55 | shadow_moon | what if you do the commands seperate? |
| 21:21.04 | herlo | maquis: its probably because I was using sudo... |
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| 21:21.30 | JoeyDay|wgu | What's the best tool for partitioning an NTFS drive? |
| 21:21.46 | sjansen | Windows. |
| 21:21.52 | maquis | partition-magic... :) i've used ntfsresize with success before, though |
| 21:21.56 | maquis | be sure to back up first,though |
| 21:21.57 | tensai | are there actually alternatives? |
| 21:22.01 | maquis | i've seen both of those fail |
| 21:22.06 | JoeyDay|wgu | sjansen: Windows? What do you mean? |
| 21:22.11 | sjansen | Oh, JoeyDay|wgu meant resizing an NTFS partition. |
| 21:22.33 | shadow_moon | cfdisk |
| 21:22.34 | JoeyDay|wgu | I've used a G-Parted Live CD to partition an NTFS drive. That seemed to work. |
| 21:22.37 | maquis | sjansen: what'd you think he was asking? |
| 21:22.46 | shadow_moon | you want to shrink ntfs partition? |
| 21:22.51 | shadow_moon | without losing data? |
| 21:22.54 | JoeyDay|wgu | I think that's probably what I'll use this time, but I was just wondering if anyone had better ideas. |
| 21:22.57 | sjansen | How to partition a drive, like he said. |
| 21:23.04 | JoeyDay|wgu | shadow_moon: Yeah, I want to set my HP tablet to dual-boot into Linux. |
| 21:23.19 | JoeyDay|wgu | But I need to keep my Windows partition for work. |
| 21:23.39 | maquis | JoeyDay|wgu: if you're going to be using ubuntu, the install cd actually provides ntfs repartitioning using ntfsresize |
| 21:23.40 | sjansen | Partiton Magic. Your local lug might have a copy. |
| 21:23.54 | shadow_moon | I've used ntfsresize. it wasn't bad. |
| 21:24.03 | sjansen | Sure, other tools claim to support ntfs, but I don't really trust them compared to PM. |
| 21:24.20 | JoeyDay|wgu | maquis: Yeah, I was thinking of going with Ubuntu. I didn't know it could do it on the fly like that. Maybe that's what I'll plan on, then. |
| 21:24.27 | maquis | i've only seen partition-magic fail once |
| 21:24.36 | maquis | i've seen ntfsresize fail at least 3 times |
| 21:24.38 | elg | was someone's thesis involved? |
| 21:24.41 | maquis | once with no negative effects |
| 21:24.57 | maquis | (ie, it didn't try to do anything... just refused to touch the partition) |
| 21:25.01 | tensai | this is maquis. she could make an egg crash. |
| 21:25.23 | maquis | tensai: hey... one of the times, i didn't touch the computer til after it died... then i was one of the ones that put it back together! |
| 21:25.23 | Supaplex | anything written in tcl is designed to crash |
| 21:25.38 | tensai | maquis: it knew you were coming |
| 21:25.42 | shadow_moon | An egg written in tcl? |
| 21:25.51 | sjansen | eggdrop reference, perhaps? |
| 21:26.21 | tensai | mmm. eggs benedict... |
| 21:26.22 | sjansen | eggdrop == famous irc bot extraordinaire |
| 21:28.01 | herlo | sjansen: the new knoppix (not yet officially released in the US) has mountable rewritable ntfs support, I wonder if it has resizing too |
| 21:28.16 | shadow_moon | why not released in us? |
| 21:28.29 | elg | because they don't like us |
| 21:28.31 | shadow_moon | what project did they use for rewrite support? |
| 21:29.09 | herlo | I don't actually know, lars-ut was showing it to me, we mounted the nfts partition on otis' laptop in my front room, pretty cool |
| 21:29.23 | herlo | wrote a file and renamed it too |
| 21:29.39 | shadow_moon | I thought dev on kernel driver was pretty much dead. |
| 21:29.59 | shadow_moon | I heard of a project that used native windows libs to do the write support. |
| 21:30.09 | sjansen | Still don't trust it, but then I'm strangely picky about unimportant things like data integrity. |
| 21:30.18 | shadow_moon | I think current windows dirver can replace existing file but can't grow it. |
| 21:30.50 | shadow_moon | opps s/windows/kernel/ |
| 21:31.28 | sjansen | That's what I last heard too. |
| 21:33.01 | herlo | yeah, apparently this is a new feature of the kernel driver |
| 21:33.08 | shadow_moon | hmm |
| 21:33.13 | shadow_moon | 2.6.16? |
| 21:33.20 | herlo | unfortunately lars-ut isn't here or I could reference him |
| 21:33.40 | shadow_moon | changelogs will work. |
| 21:33.46 | herlo | KNOPPIX_V5.0DVD-2006-02-25-DE.iso.torrent |
| 21:33.55 | herlo | that's the torrent name |
| 21:34.16 | herlo | you could search it and try it...I am going to burn a dvd later... |
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| 21:52.45 | levi | Afternoon, #utah |
| 21:55.18 | herlo | for those of you interested in the Knoppix that can write to ntfs, here's some more detail |
| 21:55.19 | herlo | (15:54:32) Lars: Linux Kernel 2.6.15.4 |
| 21:55.19 | herlo | · Debian (testing/unstable) |
| 21:55.19 | herlo | · Xorg Version 6.9 |
| 21:55.19 | herlo | · udev+hwsetup for automatic hardware detection |
| 21:55.19 | herlo | · KDE 3.5.1, GNOME 2.12 from Debian/unstable |
| 21:55.21 | herlo | · OpenOffice 2.0.1 (german+english) |
| 21:55.23 | herlo | · transparent write access for NTFS partitions (libntfs+fuse) |
| 21:55.25 | herlo | http://linux.softpedia.com/get/System/Operating-Systems/Linux-Distributions/KNOPPIX-Live-DVD-2621.shtml |
| 21:55.27 | brac | [Download KNOPPIX 5.0 Live DVD for Linux - Knoppix is a bootable CD with a collection of GNU/Linux software. - Softpedia] |
| 21:56.32 | herlo | ***Lars googled "knoppix 5.0 cebit kernel" for the result. |
| 22:07.14 | shadow_moon | fuse huh? |
| 22:07.15 | shadow_moon | hmm |
| 22:10.22 | shadow_moon | Some strange limits. they say file create will only work 50% of the time. |
| 22:10.43 | shadow_moon | That you can have up to about 10 files ina directory before you get refusals. |
| 22:11.52 | shadow_moon | refuslasl to create. |
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| 22:26.19 | sjansen | http://www.saf.org/viewpr-new.asp?id=178 |
| 22:26.20 | brac | [SAF Press Release :: NEW ORLEANS WILL BEGIN RETURNING SEIZED FIREARMS MONDAY, SAYS SAF] |
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| 22:33.16 | sjansen | http://www.epsonsettlement.com/Printers.htm <-- My family has had two of the eligible models, but they were such pieces of junk they're long gone. |
| 22:33.17 | brac | [In re Epson Ink Cartridge Cases] |
| 22:33.49 | sjansen | ~lart epson |
| 22:36.04 | maquis | sjansen: i used to have one of those |
| 22:36.10 | maquis | it died, so i took it apart |
| 22:38.08 | Bradipo | fava beans are great if they rae prepared right. |
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| 22:39.18 | sjansen | Do they go well with evil scum dog printer companies? |
| 22:39.59 | maquis | after 50000 generations, solved 0.333333% correctly <-- hmmm.... :( |
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| 22:49.34 | maquis | sjansen: not that useful of a claim, unfortunately |
| 22:49.45 | maquis | you can only get credit toward purchasing more epson stuff |
| 22:49.58 | maquis | and i personally have had more than enough of their brand |
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| 22:59.39 | levi | 0.3333% isn't very good |
| 23:05.39 | Bradipo | Is there any practical use for having multiple PTR records for a single IP? |
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| 23:08.24 | elg | in c you can do short foo[3] = {1,2,3}; but can you do short foo[3]; ... foo = {1,2,3};? |
| 23:08.36 | elg | I'm asking because I want to statically initialize an array, but not everything else in the struct. |
| 23:09.34 | Bradipo | I would think it possible... |
| 23:09.39 | Bradipo | This is C after all, right. :-) |
| 23:10.01 | levi | I don't believe you can use the {} syntax for assignment, just initialization. IIRC, at least. |
| 23:11.06 | Bradipo | The question is, what does {} mean outside of initialization? |
| 23:11.54 | Bradipo | Basically, you want to write 3 bytes into an array without copying them there? |
| 23:11.54 | levi | Depends on the context. |
| 23:12.13 | levi | I checked K&R, and the answer is no. |
| 23:12.42 | levi | foo = {1, 2, 3} is not a valid assignment expression. |
| 23:12.46 | Bradipo | Right. |
| 23:12.51 | Bradipo | Doesn't really make sense. |
| 23:12.57 | Bradipo | Too bad. |
| 23:13.12 | levi | It would be nice if it did, but it doesn't. |
| 23:13.13 | Bradipo | First of all, foo is an array. |
| 23:13.19 | levi | More C suckiness. |
| 23:13.22 | Bradipo | lol |
| 23:14.04 | Bradipo | But, wouldn't foo[1] = 1; foo[2] = 2; foo[3] = 3; work? |
| 23:14.22 | levi | Sure, but that's annoying. |
| 23:14.22 | Bradipo | Er, foo[0], etc... |
| 23:14.31 | Bradipo | Gotta love 0 indexed arrays. |
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| 23:14.48 | levi | I wrote code generation scripts to handle cases like that. |
| 23:15.21 | levi | Typing out tons of data initialization code is annoying and error-prone. |
| 23:15.22 | maquis | Bradipo: are there other types of arrays? |
| 23:15.32 | Bradipo | maquis: Yeah. |
| 23:15.34 | Bradipo | Associative. |
| 23:15.55 | Bradipo | foo[1] may not necessarily mean foo at index position 0. |
| 23:16.28 | Bradipo | Or even, foo[1] may not necessarily mean foo at index position 1. |
| 23:16.28 | levi | Some other languages start array indices at 1. |
| 23:17.49 | maquis | starting array indices at 1 doesn't really make sense |
| 23:18.21 | Bradipo | Not really, at least not for sequential numerical indexes. |
| 23:18.31 | maquis | for (i = 1; i < max+1; i++) |
| 23:18.50 | maquis | that just doesn't seem nearly as natural as |
| 23:18.56 | maquis | for (i = 0; i < max; i++) |
| 23:19.00 | levi | It comes down to the language designer's philosophy. C uses an address plus a cardinal number representing the offset. Others abstract further, and use an ordinal number instead. |
| 23:19.54 | levi | maquis: First of all, higher-level languages have better ways to do that than a for loop. Second, why not for (i = 1; i <= max; i++) ? |
| 23:20.13 | Bradipo | maquis: Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about the index starting at 0. |
| 23:20.37 | Bradipo | I just wanted to make sure I wasn't responsible for an out of bounds error on elg's array. :-) |
| 23:20.58 | levi | maquis: Both schemes make quite a bit of sense in their respective language philosophies. It wouldn't make sense for C arrays to be 'indexed' with ordinal numbers, but it does make sense in other languages. |
| 23:22.59 | maquis | levi: i suppose it'd make sense in some langauges |
| 23:23.50 | levi | maquis: Clothes. |
| 23:23.57 | maquis | levi: thanks... i'll keep that in mind |
| 23:24.56 | levi | If you consider an array as an ordered collection of elements, it makes sense to refer to the first one as '1'. |
| 23:29.57 | levi | If an array is just a variable that holds a memory location, it makes sense to use a 0-based offset notation to refer to elements, since the address you have already refers to the first one and there's no sense in having to subtract 1 before adding the offset when you're working at that low of a level. |
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| 23:41.31 | goozbach | hmm lackey!!! |
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| 23:48.55 | levi | elg: Seen http://www.unc.edu/~mumukshu/gandhi/gandhi/hofstadter.htm ? |
| 23:49.00 | brac | [Sounds Like Bach] |