| 00:00.57 | brac | -rps rock |
| 00:01.09 | hans | ibot, say -rps rock |
| 00:01.11 | ibot | -rps rock |
| 00:01.12 | brac | paper! I win! |
| 00:01.57 | hans | -rps paper |
| 00:01.58 | brac | scissors! I win! |
| 00:03.33 | lars-ut | hans: now add "ibot, say -rps rock" to the end of each of brac's responses |
| 00:03.43 | maquis | lars-ut: won't work |
| 00:03.48 | lars-ut | :) |
| 00:04.06 | maquis | ibot ignores something that's a repeate of something said < 8 seconds earlier |
| 00:04.18 | lars-ut | ah. |
| 00:04.35 | maquis | s/repeate/repeat/ |
| 00:04.43 | maquis | s/something/anything |
| 00:04.50 | maquis | yeah |
| 00:04.54 | maquis | what i meant to say... |
| 00:04.58 | hans | ibot, fool |
| 00:05.00 | ibot | According to Murphy's law, nothing is fool proof. Also, if you make anything even a fool can use, only fools will use it.. Moses |
| 00:05.46 | maquis | -rps rock |
| 00:05.46 | brac | rock. We tie. |
| 00:05.49 | maquis | -rps rock |
| 00:05.49 | brac | scissors. You win. |
| 00:05.53 | maquis | -rps rock |
| 00:05.53 | brac | scissors. You win. |
| 00:05.57 | maquis | -rps rock |
| 00:05.58 | brac | rock. We tie. |
| 00:06.00 | maquis | -rps rock |
| 00:06.00 | brac | paper! I win! |
| 00:06.00 | brac | ~lart maquis |
| 00:06.07 | maquis | -rps rock |
| 00:06.07 | brac | scissors. You win. |
| 00:06.17 | maquis | -lart cs460 |
| 00:06.56 | lars-ut | ~emulate gir |
| 00:06.57 | ibot | yay! |
| 00:07.06 | lars-ut | ~emulate Dib |
| 00:07.07 | ibot | Oh you're just *begging* to face the MOOSE. |
| 00:25.55 | *** part/#utah phinux (n=jamie@c-24-10-237-226.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 00:38.22 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (n=linuxali@c-24-2-85-20.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 00:46.06 | hans | ~rlart |
| 00:46.38 | ScytheBlade1 | ~lart windows RRAS PPTP VPNs |
| 00:47.09 | hans | haha, pptp |
| 00:47.21 | ScytheBlade1 | haha, windows |
| 00:47.27 | ScytheBlade1 | giving me GENERIC CRAP ERROR MESSAGES. |
| 00:47.27 | ScytheBlade1 | -.- |
| 00:47.36 | nick125 | lol |
| 00:47.40 | ScytheBlade1 | "Error 691" blah blah, access denied, user or password wrong |
| 00:47.52 | nick125 | Error #434572346: Something went wrong. |
| 00:47.57 | hans | Error 451: Book wrong |
| 00:48.03 | ScytheBlade1 | MY SECURITY LOGS ON THE RRAS SERVER SAY DIFFERENTLY. "Successful Network Logon" |
| 00:48.15 | nick125 | ScytheBlade1: haha.. |
| 00:48.20 | hans | see, but that's just as generic and untrue as the error messages |
| 00:48.45 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 00:48.50 | ScytheBlade1 | One for the server, one for me? |
| 00:48.54 | nick125 | yup |
| 00:49.04 | hans | oh, I thought the other was in case he missed |
| 00:49.13 | ScytheBlade1 | Hard to miss. |
| 00:49.25 | ScytheBlade1 | ... |
| 00:49.26 | hans | you have to take brain damage into acount |
| 00:49.37 | ScytheBlade1 | "Failed to start RRAS server, see event log for more information." |
| 00:49.42 | ScytheBlade1 | "Invalid username or password." |
| 00:49.57 | nick125 | hans: you shoot the server first, then you shoot yourself. |
| 00:50.23 | ScytheBlade1 | WHAT THE |
| 00:50.25 | hans | the brain damage has already occured, from trying to grok MS software |
| 00:50.30 | nick125 | yeah |
| 00:50.33 | ScytheBlade1 | "To help protect your computer, Windows has closed Microsoft Managment Console" |
| 00:50.36 | nick125 | LOL |
| 00:50.50 | hans | lol |
| 00:51.06 | nick125 | Let me guess, it's protecting itself from itself, huh? |
| 00:51.13 | ScytheBlade1 | Apparently |
| 00:51.48 | ScytheBlade1 | ... |
| 00:51.51 | ScytheBlade1 | It died at the same time |
| 00:51.53 | ScytheBlade1 | On both servers |
| 00:51.56 | nick125 | why are you working on a windows box anyways? |
| 00:51.58 | ScytheBlade1 | ................................................................................................ |
| 00:53.07 | ScytheBlade1 | I'd like to see YOU setup a PPTP linux VPN server that a 2k/XP client can connect to, and then authenticate against a windows domain |
| 00:53.11 | ScytheBlade1 | And, in the off chance that you can |
| 00:53.12 | ScytheBlade1 | Tell me how :P |
| 00:53.29 | nick125 | lol |
| 00:58.27 | ScytheBlade1 | nick125, I'm going to need several more bullets |
| 00:58.32 | nick125 | okay |
| 00:58.34 | nick125 | how many more? |
| 00:58.47 | ScytheBlade1 | All that you have |
| 00:59.27 | nick125 | will that work? |
| 01:01.33 | nick125 | I wish I could do more stuff on my production server..that would be nice :D |
| 01:01.45 | ScytheBlade1 | hans> I really don't want to walk a computer "stupid" through openvpn setup over the phone. |
| 01:01.52 | nick125 | dual xeon 3.0ghz, nearly 0.02% usage |
| 01:06.45 | hans | ScytheBlade1: simple click-through custom installers |
| 01:07.01 | hans | I've talked people through that and pptp and ipsec and everything else. believe me, openvpn is easiest |
| 01:07.09 | hans | with that installer, at least |
| 01:07.48 | ScytheBlade1 | Still have to configure the end to end stuff |
| 01:08.13 | hans | you mean the domain bit? yeah, not sure about that |
| 01:08.33 | ScytheBlade1 | And the user//pass authentication |
| 01:08.41 | ScytheBlade1 | and the windows box gives out the IPs |
| 01:09.46 | emcnabb | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:09.56 | goozbach | yes it is |
| 01:09.59 | emcnabb | s/greate/great |
| 01:10.00 | goozbach | there's one here!!! |
| 01:10.22 | emcnabb | I just bought a little aluminum case for my old 2.5" HD |
| 01:10.30 | emcnabb | goozbach: sweet |
| 01:12.08 | emcnabb | it has a interesting cable; one side plugs into the drive enclosure, and the other end has two connectors - one is red (extra power), and the other is data (and power) |
| 01:12.52 | hans | ScytheBlade1: seriously, if you have the power to dictate it (or persuade the one that does), and if it can work with the domain stuff, you want openvpn |
| 01:13.04 | emcnabb | I've copied a ton of data back and forth and it seems to be powering it without problems (I was worried that it would consume too much power since it is 7200 RPM) |
| 01:13.21 | emcnabb | we love OpenVPN |
| 01:13.22 | ScytheBlade1 | hans: I have complete control over it... as long as it works, they don't care |
| 01:13.34 | ScytheBlade1 | hans: problem is IP assignment |
| 01:13.41 | ScytheBlade1 | and setting up the end-users |
| 01:13.55 | emcnabb | it's connecting all three of the mcnabbs.org networks, and all of our laptops |
| 01:14.13 | *** part/#utah linuxalien (n=linuxali@c-24-2-85-20.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 01:15.23 | ScytheBlade1 | Whoo |
| 01:15.30 | ScytheBlade1 | I just stumped the most windows knowledgable guy I know |
| 01:15.48 | hans | ip assignment will be worth investigating, for sure. |
| 01:15.56 | hans | take it from me, end-user setup is easier than pptp |
| 01:16.12 | ScytheBlade1 | Hah |
| 01:16.26 | ScytheBlade1 | Add New connection --> Connect to my workplace --> VPN --> 1stnationaltitle.com --> Done |
| 01:16.27 | hans | and more consistent as there's only one way, vs. the thousand ways in different windows versions |
| 01:16.30 | hans | but you don't have to belive me |
| 01:16.55 | hans | go ahead and enjoy your windows admin experience |
| 01:16.56 | ScytheBlade1 | There's really only ONE way in windows to do PPTP (with the MS stuff) |
| 01:17.38 | hans | one way? dude, step one is already a lost cause |
| 01:17.57 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 01:18.00 | ScytheBlade1 | Each to their own ;) |
| 01:18.10 | hans | where is add new connection? it's different with every version, service pack, and security patch |
| 01:18.24 | ScytheBlade1 | We only run 2k |
| 01:18.29 | ScytheBlade1 | Erm |
| 01:18.30 | ScytheBlade1 | 2k and higher |
| 01:18.30 | hans | slightly exaggerated for emcnabb's sake. ;-) |
| 01:18.40 | ScytheBlade1 | And it's only different from 2k to XP |
| 01:19.00 | ScytheBlade1 | (And only the location of 'Add New Connection') |
| 01:20.02 | hans | me: "click on the executable I'm sending you. click through the installer with the defaults" |
| 01:20.12 | ScytheBlade1 | Then? |
| 01:20.22 | hans | them: "ok... do I really want to install this driver that windows is telling me will kill my dog?" |
| 01:20.26 | hans | me: "yes" |
| 01:20.32 | hans | them: "ok... done" |
| 01:20.34 | ScytheBlade1 | Last I checked, openvpn involves manual text file conf editing for windows |
| 01:20.51 | hans | me: "double-click the new green icon. there, you're on!" |
| 01:21.00 | hans | you obviously didn't listen to me |
| 01:21.12 | ScytheBlade1 | How'd you pre-configure it? |
| 01:21.37 | hans | a windows installer generator using NSIS |
| 01:21.50 | hans | yes, you have to generate the certificate and run make |
| 01:22.02 | ScytheBlade1 | pfft, NSIS |
| 01:22.07 | ScytheBlade1 | http://wix.sf.net/ ;) |
| 01:22.15 | hans | whatever. you can make one with wix |
| 01:22.20 | ScytheBlade1 | yeah |
| 01:43.34 | ScytheBlade1 | I HAD TO DISABLE LOGGING. |
| 01:43.38 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@adsl-75-0-136-70.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) |
| 01:45.19 | ScytheBlade1 | I had... to disable logging... which I only enabled to debug the problem |
| 01:45.22 | ScytheBlade1 | And now it works, flawlessly |
| 01:58.40 | *** join/#utah RyanE_ (n=ryan@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 02:39.35 | *** join/#utah ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 02:39.35 | *** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See openclue.org/ut, sllug.org, uphpu.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com, utaug.org || Tickets/Info for X-Men 3 coming soon || goozbach now has his own banana republic || vontrapp is engaged! http://von.fugal.net/vonceige.jpg |
| 02:39.36 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 02:49.58 | *** join/#utah amcnabb (n=amcnabb@128.187.165.53) |
| 02:55.04 | *** join/#utah levi (n=levi@levi.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 03:09.50 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch@63-230-29-6.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 03:13.06 | ScytheBlade1 | lol @ Fox 13 news's recording of Mitt Romney |
| 03:13.21 | ScytheBlade1 | "As a Mormon, I believe that marriage should be between a man, and a woman. And a woman, and a woman, and a woman." |
| 03:16.58 | *** join/#utah ScytheBlade1 (n=Death@about/pxe/ScytheBlade1) |
| 03:25.44 | tensai | ScytheBlade1: that's a horrible story (re: disable loggin) |
| 03:25.51 | ScytheBlade1 | Ugh |
| 03:25.55 | ScytheBlade1 | Did you read the entire thing? |
| 03:26.02 | tensai | yeah |
| 03:26.46 | ScytheBlade1 | Each to their own ;) |
| 03:27.15 | tensai | true, true. I may have to get some sort of AD integrated login w/ openvpn. |
| 03:27.44 | ScytheBlade1 | It's horribly, horribly useful |
| 03:27.49 | tensai | right now we're just using ssl certs |
| 03:27.58 | ScytheBlade1 | Those are rather nice too ;) |
| 03:28.08 | ScytheBlade1 | If you figure out openvpn certs + AD |
| 03:28.13 | ScytheBlade1 | I'd switch in a second |
| 03:28.26 | tensai | that's what I'm working on right now. just came up today, actually. |
| 03:28.45 | ScytheBlade1 | Yeah... if you use RRAS and mis-configure logging |
| 03:28.52 | ScytheBlade1 | It may take a while, but it WILL break :) |
| 03:28.53 | ScytheBlade1 | Dirty thing |
| 03:29.21 | nick125 | I think this is overkill..seriously.. |
| 03:29.21 | tensai | never used RRAS thankfully |
| 03:29.23 | nick125 | localhost ~ # lsmod | wc -l |
| 03:29.25 | nick125 | 809 |
| 03:29.27 | nick125 | localhost ~ # |
| 03:29.30 | maquis | @#$%!!!! |
| 03:29.57 | findlay | ~language maquis |
| 03:29.58 | ibot | ACTION grabs maquis by the ear and washes maquis's mouth out with soap |
| 03:29.58 | ScytheBlade1 | It's actually really, really, really nice for VPN/IPSec |
| 03:30.16 | ScytheBlade1 | However, according to the windows *gurus* that I talk to |
| 03:30.22 | ScytheBlade1 | It's horribly finicky if you touch it |
| 03:30.39 | ScytheBlade1 | If you remove a router that was narrower than a previous one with IPSec, you've gotta reboot for it to function again |
| 03:30.49 | ScytheBlade1 | s/router/route/ |
| 03:31.22 | findlay | ibot: are you tired of parroting everything? |
| 03:31.25 | findlay | ~~ |
| 03:31.27 | ibot | Every moment in which im called upon is torture |
| 03:31.36 | findlay | I knew it |
| 03:33.04 | tensai | ScytheBlade1: wait, you change out a router and the client has to reboot? |
| 03:33.15 | ScytheBlade1 | No, server, and not router, route |
| 03:33.22 | ScytheBlade1 | Only under very unique circumstances |
| 03:33.23 | ScytheBlade1 | But still |
| 03:33.30 | tensai | oh, didn't read your correction |
| 03:33.43 | tensai | yeah, still a little goofy |
| 03:35.08 | ScytheBlade1 | I have SSH tunnels :) |
| 03:35.36 | tensai | I think my firewall still allows ssh as well |
| 03:36.15 | findlay | don't hobbits live in tunnels? |
| 03:37.35 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@65.73.113.162) |
| 03:39.09 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm okay with heavily encrypted hobbits |
| 03:41.38 | *** join/#utah bigdog_ut (n=bigdog@207.135.132.13) |
| 04:21.08 | tensai | ScytheBlade1: you thinking of running openvpn on linux or windows? |
| 04:21.23 | tensai | the server, I mean |
| 04:21.36 | ScytheBlade1 | linux |
| 04:22.49 | tensai | I got username authentication to work. I'd simply need to write an LDAP query rather than a simple CSV, which shouldn't be hard. |
| 04:23.04 | ScytheBlade1 | I need to learn LDAP stuff in general |
| 04:23.36 | tensai | my company hired sjansen |
| 04:23.46 | ScytheBlade1 | Oh? |
| 04:23.55 | roscivs | uh oh, sell stock quick quick!!! |
| 04:24.13 | roscivs | (ha ha only joking sjansen! ;) |
| 04:24.29 | tensai | he came up and enlightened us. now I can whip out Net::LDAP code and OpenLDAP replicas like, um, something that's easy |
| 04:24.36 | tensai | roscivs: no worries, he's not even here |
| 04:24.54 | roscivs | aw. it's no fun to make fun of people who aren't here. |
| 04:24.59 | ScytheBlade1 | Yeah, I don't know Perl either ;) |
| 04:26.53 | tensai | the authentication is pretty easy. it creates a file with a username and password (read from the client over an ssl channel) and spawns a process with that file name as an argument. |
| 04:27.03 | tensai | the auth module exits 1 for failure, 0 for success |
| 04:27.15 | ScytheBlade1 | The thing is, I'm missing the LDAP theory, the how and the why |
| 04:27.19 | tensai | there's also a way to write C shared libraries, but I don't think I'll go that far |
| 04:27.57 | tensai | well, it all started with X.500. People were scared. Very scared. |
| 04:28.20 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 04:29.02 | tensai | ldap is a pretty meaty protocol, but "lightweight" is correct. kinda makes you wonder what sickos came up with x.500. ISO? Oh, that makes sense then. |
| 04:29.19 | ScytheBlade1 | Oh my |
| 04:29.32 | ScytheBlade1 | I've always wondered - if LDAP is lightweight and less than X.500 |
| 04:29.39 | ScytheBlade1 | Why aren't we using X.500? |
| 04:30.10 | tensai | would you rather bench press 100 pounds or an elephant? |
| 04:30.11 | roscivs | Have you ever heard anyone remark, "You know, LDAP just isn't complex enough for our needs. Is there anything more complicated we could use?" |
| 04:30.48 | ScytheBlade1 | I don't think LDAP itself is complicated |
| 04:30.55 | ScytheBlade1 | aside from the retarded schema OIDs |
| 04:30.59 | tensai | it doesn't have to be |
| 04:31.10 | tensai | the OIDs aren't so bad once you ignore them :) |
| 04:31.39 | ScytheBlade1 | Yeah but, an org. in place to tell you what OIDs you can use for yourself, and what you can't? |
| 04:32.26 | ScytheBlade1 | Anywho |
| 04:32.32 | tensai | there's an OID reserved for private use, and it's not too hard to get your own. I see your point though. |
| 04:32.47 | ScytheBlade1 | What I'm missing is the whole LDAP binding as a user vs. user authentication against an LDAP database |
| 04:33.19 | ScytheBlade1 | Yeah, I know. I actually have an OID assigned to me, somewhere out there. But... still. |
| 04:33.43 | tensai | normally when a process authenticates to an LDAP database it binds using the proposed credentials. if it works, the password is good. if not, the password fails. |
| 04:34.22 | ScytheBlade1 | What does it authenticate as? The big long ou=blah string? |
| 04:35.04 | tensai | yes. that's called the distinguished name, or dn. |
| 04:35.09 | ScytheBlade1 | Right |
| 04:35.36 | ScytheBlade1 | dn=user,ou=level3,ou=business,ou=com |
| 04:35.42 | ScytheBlade1 | Or something like that, it's been a while |
| 04:36.01 | tensai | exactly |
| 04:36.32 | tensai | usually it's dc=example,dc=com (where dc is directory component) |
| 04:36.54 | ScytheBlade1 | I just need to learn the schema a little more in depth, namely how to apply certain schema, make my own, find a good registry of them, etc., and then figure out OpenLDAP's ACLs |
| 04:37.01 | ScytheBlade1 | Right, again, it's been a bit ;) |
| 04:38.42 | tensai | you know the difference between structural and auxiliary object classes? |
| 04:38.51 | ScytheBlade1 | Nope, never heard of either |
| 04:40.13 | tensai | an object has exactly one structural type and as many auxiliary types as it needs |
| 04:40.38 | ScytheBlade1 | Suddenly, things make sense :P |
| 04:42.35 | tensai | so inetOrgPerson and account are structural. an object can't be both at the same time (without turning off schema checks, which is a bad idea). |
| 04:42.57 | ScytheBlade1 | Yeah, see, that was my problem... |
| 04:43.04 | tensai | the ldap server I inherited two years ago had been running with schema checks off. bad, bad, bad. |
| 04:43.06 | ScytheBlade1 | I took "structural" to mean "just add stuff to it" |
| 04:43.16 | ScytheBlade1 | I tried to add the samba stuff to inetOrgPerson |
| 04:43.43 | ScytheBlade1 | And don't hurt me for this |
| 04:43.50 | ScytheBlade1 | But that's the only reason I cared for OIDs ;) |
| 04:43.57 | ScytheBlade1 | When it didn't work, what was the solution? |
| 04:43.59 | ScytheBlade1 | Write my own schema! |
| 04:44.39 | *** join/#utah amcnabb (n=amcnabb@128.187.165.53) |
| 04:44.44 | ScytheBlade1 | (You can see just how far that got me. Or didn't.) |
| 04:44.59 | tensai | it's a big drawback to ldap imho. practically forces people to take issues into their own hands, as you saw. |
| 04:45.15 | ScytheBlade1 | Yeah |
| 04:45.47 | ScytheBlade1 | Which is pretty much the reason why I was wondering why not X.500 |
| 04:45.51 | ScytheBlade1 | What could be worse? :P |
| 04:46.23 | tensai | I've never actually used X.500 so I can't say. I hope I never know either. |
| 04:47.21 | tensai | what else have you wondered about ldap? |
| 04:47.43 | ScytheBlade1 | It was mostly the authentication that got at me. |
| 04:47.59 | ScytheBlade1 | "So, I have to specify login credentials... okay, NOW I can authenticate a user against it... huh." |
| 04:48.11 | ScytheBlade1 | "*confusion*" |
| 04:48.17 | ScytheBlade1 | Just missing the basics |
| 04:48.24 | *** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@166.70.238.250) |
| 04:48.30 | tensai | that might be because of AD, which is IMHO the worst LDAP implementation out there |
| 04:48.42 | ScytheBlade1 | No, I was playing around with OpenLDAP on a linux box I had at the time |
| 04:48.55 | tensai | hmm |
| 04:48.57 | ScytheBlade1 | Following the gentoo wiki (no flames, please ;)) I got ldap auth working with PAM |
| 04:49.10 | ScytheBlade1 | But didn't know why, or anything else of value |
| 04:49.18 | tensai | well, with AD there's no anonymous binding. you have to create a guest user and use that. |
| 04:49.29 | ScytheBlade1 | So hold up |
| 04:49.37 | tensai | that could be an ACL issue then |
| 04:49.45 | ScytheBlade1 | You have to anon bind to it (OpenLDAP) before you can authenticate? |
| 04:50.31 | tensai | more or less, yeah. think of it as saying hello before giving a username |
| 04:51.33 | ScytheBlade1 | Yeah, when prompted with initial credentials to authenticate |
| 04:51.40 | ScytheBlade1 | Which in turn I was giving more credentials |
| 04:51.48 | ScytheBlade1 | I just thought, "Okay, whatever" |
| 04:52.33 | tensai | when you gave it the second set of credentials it rebound with those |
| 04:52.45 | ScytheBlade1 | Why not just bind as those initially? |
| 04:53.08 | tensai | it can be done. all my boxes that use pam ldap just bind once. |
| 04:53.25 | ScytheBlade1 | All of the HOWTOs out there have confused the heck out of me |
| 04:55.00 | tensai | I would guess that your ACL didn't allow anonymous users to authenticate |
| 04:55.11 | tensai | "access to * by anonymous auth" |
| 04:55.19 | ScytheBlade1 | Nope |
| 04:56.12 | tensai | nope you didn't allow it, or nope I got it wrong? |
| 04:56.33 | ScytheBlade1 | I didn't allow it |
| 04:57.24 | ScytheBlade1 | .... my brother whines that I eat frozen Totino's pizza |
| 04:57.26 | ScytheBlade1 | "That's gross!" |
| 04:57.31 | ScytheBlade1 | ... he's got one in the microwave now. |
| 04:57.37 | tensai | that sounds like the problem then, although I could certainly be wrong |
| 04:57.59 | tensai | you eat it while it's frozen? |
| 04:58.05 | ScytheBlade1 | I couldn't tell you now, I only have one linux box now |
| 04:58.12 | ScytheBlade1 | I have six little sisters and a younger brother |
| 04:58.15 | ScytheBlade1 | I grab one and rumn |
| 04:58.16 | ScytheBlade1 | *run |
| 04:58.25 | tensai | heh. I can understand that. |
| 04:58.45 | ScytheBlade1 | Yeah. 7 here ;) |
| 04:59.03 | tensai | oh, is that was 6 + 1 is? :P |
| 04:59.12 | ScytheBlade1 | One of which is adopted (older than I am, but also a good 1.5' to 2' shorter than I am) with her own kid |
| 04:59.18 | ScytheBlade1 | So kinda 8 |
| 05:00.06 | ScytheBlade1 | Nah, 6+1=3. |
| 05:00.25 | ScytheBlade1 | http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts/generic/60f5/ |
| 05:00.27 | brac | [ThinkGeek :: 2+2=5] |
| 05:00.27 | fozzmoo | ScytheBlade1: Hi |
| 05:00.32 | ScytheBlade1 | fozzmoo, hi |
| 05:01.12 | tensai | nice. http://www.opendarwin.org/~landonf/software/openvpn-auth-ldap/ |
| 05:01.13 | brac | [OpenVPN Auth-LDAP Plugin] |
| 05:01.22 | ScytheBlade1 | whoo hoo |
| 05:05.14 | ScytheBlade1 | Hmm - good idea/bad idea: taking 54oz of water with me on a flight to DC |
| 05:06.49 | ScytheBlade1 | tensai, see, that plugin - basically it checks if the user can login, and if it can, calls it good, right? |
| 05:07.07 | fozzmoo | ScytheBlade1: Do you have an aisle seat? |
| 05:07.09 | tensai | ScytheBlade1: correct |
| 05:07.13 | ScytheBlade1 | fozzmoo, not sure yet |
| 05:07.26 | fozzmoo | There's your answer to the question. :) |
| 05:07.32 | fozzmoo | Chadoon in DC? |
| 05:07.43 | ScytheBlade1 | tensai, what if I wanted it to check against additional stuff in the directory? What if I wanted it to verify the user had VPN access first? |
| 05:07.48 | ScytheBlade1 | Choir/Band tour :) |
| 05:07.57 | fozzmoo | Oh dear. You're a bandgeek too?! |
| 05:08.09 | ScytheBlade1 | No |
| 05:08.10 | ScytheBlade1 | Choir |
| 05:08.22 | fozzmoo | Oh, and that's better, huH? :) |
| 05:08.29 | ScytheBlade1 | Much, thank you ;) |
| 05:08.41 | findlay | do you know what CTR is? |
| 05:08.43 | fozzmoo | I travelled with the choir when I was in high school. |
| 05:08.55 | ScytheBlade1 | findlay, um, in one sense of the word ;) |
| 05:09.09 | fozzmoo | I was the stage-crew delegate for on the road choir performances. |
| 05:09.14 | ScytheBlade1 | Haha |
| 05:09.21 | ScytheBlade1 | Yeah, okay, that would be "entertaining" |
| 05:09.21 | fozzmoo | Set up flashpots, ran sound, etc., |
| 05:09.22 | findlay | I was unfortunately traumatized by various outbreaks of CTR in my high school years |
| 05:09.34 | tensai | ScytheBlade1: depends on how that data is stored. I would guess it's an attribute on the user object, so a simple filter should suffice. |
| 05:09.37 | findlay | ibot: CTR is choir tour romance |
| 05:09.38 | ibot | ...but ctr is already something else... |
| 05:09.43 | findlay | ~ctr |
| 05:09.44 | ibot | somebody said ctr was really boris in disguise, or "Choose the Right" |
| 05:09.45 | ScytheBlade1 | YES, A HAHA |
| 05:09.52 | ScytheBlade1 | We've got a different name for that |
| 05:10.01 | ScytheBlade1 | Just "TR", as band comes along |
| 05:10.09 | fozzmoo | Oh dear. Those are nasty. Those CTRs. |
| 05:10.26 | fozzmoo | They tend to take all sorts of shapes. Triangles. Pentagons. etc. |
| 05:10.33 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm actually a member of our jazz choir and a'cappella choir |
| 05:10.43 | findlay | jazz choir? |
| 05:10.48 | ScytheBlade1 | This one is for a'cappella, Jazz went up to Moscow, ID for the jazz festival earlier this year |
| 05:10.50 | ScytheBlade1 | yeah |
| 05:10.56 | findlay | who's the music teachers at bingham these days? |
| 05:11.00 | ScytheBlade1 | Maureen Hatch |
| 05:11.12 | ScytheBlade1 | She does all choir |
| 05:11.17 | findlay | my dad was the choir/orchestra teacher at CHHS until last year |
| 05:11.24 | ScytheBlade1 | Jim Thompson and Darren Graber are band/orchestra |
| 05:11.33 | findlay | I know Jim pretty well |
| 05:11.39 | ScytheBlade1 | Oh? |
| 05:11.54 | findlay | he used to be at Granite |
| 05:12.08 | findlay | and he was one of the conductors of JSO |
| 05:12.08 | ScytheBlade1 | Yeah, that's right |
| 05:12.12 | ScytheBlade1 | Yup |
| 05:12.18 | findlay | I was in that |
| 05:12.27 | ScytheBlade1 | Power to you |
| 05:12.35 | ScytheBlade1 | I had him for bio sophmore year |
| 05:12.41 | findlay | they weren't ever very good |
| 05:12.51 | ScytheBlade1 | We spent the entire period getting into a seating chart that he had already drawn up |
| 05:15.17 | findlay | the best orchestra that I was ever in was a pick up orchestra for the Provo city Messiah last Christmas |
| 05:15.39 | findlay | amazing seeing that we only had a few hours to rehearse |
| 05:15.49 | findlay | but it was fun |
| 05:15.57 | tensai | ick. I don't think I like objective C |
| 05:15.58 | ScytheBlade1 | yeah |
| 05:16.18 | maquis | i don't think i like tcl |
| 05:16.24 | ScytheBlade1 | But yes, a'cappella (100 people, 50/50 boys/girls), and the band/orchestra is going over to DC for a week |
| 05:16.27 | findlay | 2nd best was the Mormon symphony when I was a Senior in high school |
| 05:16.30 | ScytheBlade1 | We'll get back saturday around midnight |
| 05:17.08 | findlay | OTS seems good, but they're still pretty ametuerish in many ways |
| 05:17.27 | ScytheBlade1 | OTS? |
| 05:17.49 | findlay | maybe it was the harsh scrapes of the violins and the percussive clash of the triangle |
| 05:18.05 | findlay | little things like that really make the difference for musical sensitivity |
| 05:18.16 | findlay | orchestra at temple square |
| 05:18.17 | ScytheBlade1 | It's true |
| 05:18.19 | ScytheBlade1 | Ah, okay |
| 05:18.30 | findlay | you can spend $300 on a good triangle |
| 05:18.40 | ScytheBlade1 | Geez |
| 05:18.44 | ScytheBlade1 | That's why I'm choir :P |
| 05:18.49 | findlay | ah |
| 05:18.55 | *** join/#utah dkelson (n=upirc@h460726d7.area7.spcsdns.net) |
| 05:19.00 | findlay | now great voices are priceless (: |
| 05:19.08 | fozzmoo | Oh dear. It's dkelson. |
| 05:19.14 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm not amazing, but I can generally hold my own |
| 05:19.21 | findlay | like Pavaratti or Jessye Norman |
| 05:19.42 | fozzmoo | On his treo, no less. |
| 05:20.05 | dkelson | indeed |
| 05:20.09 | ScytheBlade1 | Did I ever mention that I hate copying over 20GB of music over USB 1.1? |
| 05:20.11 | findlay | I think most people don't like art singing like operatic or art song because they've never come to appreciate the beauty of the human voice |
| 05:20.27 | findlay | usb is designed for slow devices like keyboards |
| 05:20.34 | dkelson | on I15 south of Spanish Fork |
| 05:20.43 | fozzmoo | Heading N or S? |
| 05:20.48 | findlay | hey dkelson look over there! |
| 05:20.52 | fozzmoo | heh heh. |
| 05:20.52 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 05:20.59 | dkelson | heading S |
| 05:21.03 | maquis | -lart dkelson |
| 05:21.06 | fozzmoo | I just came back from Orem- had to install a server at FiberNet |
| 05:21.20 | maquis | dkelson: how goes it? |
| 05:21.30 | ScytheBlade1 | Who wants to check my spam while I'm gone? |
| 05:21.41 | fozzmoo | FiberNet's colo is about 90 degrees. They really need to fix that. |
| 05:21.46 | findlay | everybody spam ScytheBlade1 while he's gone |
| 05:22.00 | findlay | fozzmoo: oooh, hot |
| 05:22.09 | ScytheBlade1 | findlay, I get about 30 a day, I don't need more, thanks ;) |
| 05:22.13 | fozzmoo | findlay: Which is why my client needed a new mail server. :) |
| 05:22.21 | dkelson | my wife is taking the first shift on driving to St. Georgr |
| 05:22.37 | maquis | ah... so you're not irc-ing while driving? |
| 05:22.37 | fozzmoo | dkelson: Ahhh. This trip is for pleasure? |
| 05:22.56 | fozzmoo | I jabber while driving all the time. Uhm.. I mean, I KNOW SOMEONE who does that. What a dork. |
| 05:23.01 | findlay | ScytheBlade1: ok, everybody spam/pm ScytheBlade1 while he's gone (: |
| 05:23.16 | maquis | fozzmoo: :) |
| 05:23.18 | ScytheBlade1 | That's just cruel |
| 05:23.19 | findlay | fozzmoo: jabber+festival |
| 05:23.23 | dkelson | lol..that is bad for the other drivers and wildlife |
| 05:23.35 | findlay | reverse festival, I guess |
| 05:24.13 | fozzmoo | Stay away from the Subaru w/ the Linux sticker in the window. |
| 05:24.22 | maquis | will do |
| 05:24.35 | findlay | festival is not fun when you have it hooked up to the error queue when it spews thousands of errors |
| 05:24.41 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 05:24.45 | ScytheBlade1 | There's a nightmare |
| 05:24.51 | fozzmoo | dkelson: Not from Sprint. :) |
| 05:24.57 | ScytheBlade1 | Or Verizon |
| 05:25.04 | maquis | dkelson: goo might know |
| 05:25.07 | fozzmoo | I was gonna say, MAYBE Verizon. |
| 05:25.08 | findlay | maybe you can pick up alien signals |
| 05:25.11 | ScytheBlade1 | Nope. |
| 05:25.21 | ScytheBlade1 | No Verizon in the middle of nowhere. |
| 05:25.27 | fozzmoo | Sprint sucks in Utah, IMO. |
| 05:25.34 | fozzmoo | Seems to be great outside Utah, tho. |
| 05:25.52 | fozzmoo | I keep it for cheap data. :) |
| 05:25.53 | maquis | iirc, sprint rather sucks in washington, too |
| 05:26.00 | dkelson | speaking of alternate notification... |
| 05:26.04 | maquis | ?? |
| 05:26.28 | fozzmoo | were we speaking of alternate notification? |
| 05:26.33 | ScytheBlade1 | Verizon, if you have a camera phone (or if you have the 1X on your phone) |
| 05:26.45 | ScytheBlade1 | Has free data - only chews up minutes, no additional charges |
| 05:26.57 | ScytheBlade1 | Which is really, really odd coming from them |
| 05:26.59 | ScytheBlade1 | But apparently true |
| 05:27.07 | dkelson | there a gaim plugin that flashes the 'thinkpad keyboard light' on new messages |
| 05:27.20 | fozzmoo | heh. That's cool. |
| 05:27.22 | maquis | dkelson: ooh... that's kinda cool |
| 05:27.30 | maquis | dkelson: what's it called? |
| 05:27.43 | fozzmoo | Cruel for epileptics... but cool for the rest of us. |
| 05:27.57 | fozzmoo | ScytheBlade1: Sprint doesn't charge minutes. |
| 05:28.07 | dkelson | don't remember -- check www.thinkwiki.org |
| 05:28.09 | fozzmoo | If you buy the PCS Vision plan - $15/mo or less - you get unlimited data |
| 05:28.42 | fozzmoo | You might have to stand on one leg and stick out your tongue, but you'll get unlimited data. |
| 05:28.50 | dkelson | next month I'll be upgrading to the new Treo with 700p |
| 05:29.00 | fozzmoo | is it going to be available from Sprint?! |
| 05:29.04 | fozzmoo | Cuz I'm there! |
| 05:29.07 | maquis | hmmm |
| 05:29.11 | dkelson | killer feature will be EVDO data |
| 05:29.20 | fozzmoo | yeah... if/when it's available here. :) |
| 05:29.35 | maquis | the xmms plugin that strobes the light to the beat would probably get *really* annoying after a while... |
| 05:29.36 | fozzmoo | or when you travel to someplace that has EVDO. |
| 05:29.45 | dkelson | My wife has a Sprint phone with EVDO right now |
| 05:29.55 | goozbach | dkelson: I-15 all the way works |
| 05:30.00 | fozzmoo | Oh really? Does Sprint have EVDO in Utah already? |
| 05:30.04 | fozzmoo | GOOZ! |
| 05:30.21 | dkelson | there is EVDO from SLC up to about Weber state. |
| 05:30.39 | maquis | goo! :) |
| 05:30.39 | dkelson | maybe more..that is just where I've seen it |
| 05:30.44 | fozzmoo | That's cool. Didn't know they had even started to deployt it yet. |
| 05:30.52 | findlay | especially if you're listening to Rachmaninov, that would be a really intelligent algorithm to find the beat |
| 05:30.56 | findlay | or Debussy |
| 05:30.57 | fozzmoo | I'll be in line - right behind you- when the 700p is out. |
| 05:31.13 | findlay | BACH!!@!1One |
| 05:31.25 | dkelson | gooz -- hey man! |
| 05:31.54 | findlay | 22 in the space of 7 |
| 05:31.58 | findlay | ha, find the beat in that |
| 05:32.05 | goozbach | ~lart screen problmees |
| 05:32.25 | goozbach | that flashing short I had in my screen is back |
| 05:32.29 | goozbach | with a vengance |
| 05:32.37 | findlay | goozbach: uninstall flash? |
| 05:32.41 | dkelson | which bot do ask when the last time herlo was on? |
| 05:32.49 | findlay | ~seen herlo |
| 05:32.54 | ibot | herlo <n=csavage@198.252.209.162> was last seen on IRC in channel #uphpu, 6h 59m 15s ago, saying: 'something simple would be preferred, I have looked at mediawiki and a few others. And without a great amount of research (it was very convoluted and would take some serious time to resolve), I don't think I would like to figure it out...'. |
| 05:32.54 | dkelson | ughh |
| 05:33.00 | findlay | ha, I win |
| 05:33.07 | maquis | -lart findlay |
| 05:33.19 | findlay | maquis got the kind retort PM from ibot |
| 05:33.29 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch@63-230-29-6.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 05:33.43 | goozbach | findlay: it's a hardware short |
| 05:33.51 | goozbach | ala touch teh screen and it dies |
| 05:34.08 | maquis | ick |
| 05:34.17 | findlay | what kind of device? |
| 05:34.32 | dkelson | derek -- did you know I had send my laptop for a new mobo cause a static zapped my my nic dead? |
| 05:34.32 | goozbach | IBM T-42 |
| 05:34.47 | goozbach | dkelson: yup |
| 05:35.06 | fozzmoo | dkelson: Even _I_ found out about that and I'm only a part-time guru. |
| 05:35.11 | dkelson | k .. |
| 05:35.18 | fozzmoo | Maybe it was because I always had static issues at GL. |
| 05:35.36 | dkelson | the next week I had to send it again cause I fried my USB ports |
| 05:35.56 | maquis | sounds like dkelson has the same luck with hardware that i have with software |
| 05:36.04 | maquis | although, perhaps not as bad |
| 05:36.06 | findlay | ~luck maquis |
| 05:36.09 | dkelson | twice to IBM for new mobos in two weeks |
| 05:36.41 | goozbach | ouch |
| 05:37.04 | goozbach | dkelson: you belive us now when we said that the office has static issues? :) |
| 05:37.05 | dkelson | funny since I've been using a laptop daily for seven years .. never happened befire |
| 05:37.12 | fozzmoo | New shoes? |
| 05:37.12 | dkelson | then twice |
| 05:37.37 | maquis | fozzmoo: good point... :) |
| 05:37.42 | dkelson | nah...new haircut methinks |
| 05:37.56 | fozzmoo | Hmmm. |
| 05:37.58 | findlay | where I work if I'm wearing headphones and I stand up, it zaps the soud card and I have to reload the kernel module to clear it |
| 05:38.08 | findlay | I stopped wearing headphones after that day (: |
| 05:38.13 | fozzmoo | findlay: That'd be funny to watch. |
| 05:38.41 | fozzmoo | Everytime you stand up, you have to sit back down and reload a kernel module. |
| 05:38.58 | findlay | fozzmoo: yeah. How would you script that? |
| 05:39.12 | maquis | findlay: what if you took the headphones off before standing up? |
| 05:39.13 | dkelson | you need bluetooth headphones then |
| 05:39.23 | maquis | lol... |
| 05:39.25 | findlay | maquis: nah, that's not elegant enough (: |
| 05:39.31 | maquis | it'd be funny if it had the problem even with the bluetooth... :) |
| 05:39.38 | maquis | unlikely, but *funny* |
| 05:39.40 | findlay | something like a clapper or something ... |
| 05:40.18 | findlay | you have to whistle a high A# for precisely 5001 ms just before you stand up |
| 05:41.01 | dkelson | I think Utah, in general, has bad static electricity probs |
| 05:41.10 | maquis | too dry |
| 05:41.21 | findlay | yeah, pretty boring |
| 05:41.47 | fozzmoo | Dang it. I just finished off my last 2 ltr of diet code red. Might have to hit Smiffs. |
| 05:41.49 | findlay | all the more fun for inquisitive children, though (: |
| 05:41.56 | dkelson | gooz -- how is Florida treating you? |
| 05:42.27 | fozzmoo | dkelson: I think the right question is, "how are the women in florida treating you?" |
| 05:42.34 | dkelson | I have a bluetooth GPS receiver hard wired into my SUV |
| 05:42.42 | goozbach | not too bad |
| 05:42.52 | maquis | fozzmoo: in which case, it's going well for him, from what i've heard.... |
| 05:42.58 | findlay | is it very florid there? |
| 05:43.06 | goozbach | to both questions |
| 05:43.54 | ScytheBlade1 | Now, to be up at 5:40 to leave |
| 05:44.18 | goozbach | I should be in bed |
| 05:44.26 | findlay | ~give maquis a C_ |
| 05:44.27 | ibot | ACTION gives a C_ to maquis |
| 05:44.28 | maquis | goozbach: no... you should be hanging out with us here |
| 05:44.32 | goozbach | ~lart late night cuddle sessions |
| 05:44.39 | maquis | findlay: no... C-... not C_ |
| 05:44.42 | dkelson | I heard there was derek+girl+hammock+beach action |
| 05:44.45 | fozzmoo | hee hee. |
| 05:44.46 | findlay | maquis: whatever |
| 05:44.53 | maquis | dkelson: ooh! |
| 05:44.53 | goozbach | dkelson: not far off |
| 05:45.03 | maquis | goozbach: storytime! |
| 05:45.09 | goozbach | not tonight |
| 05:45.13 | maquis | :( |
| 05:45.15 | maquis | *sniff* |
| 05:45.23 | findlay | maquis: you need to get that C- |
| 05:45.36 | goozbach | I'd be on more often, but I've yet to get internet |
| 05:45.50 | maquis | goozbach: excuses, excuses... |
| 05:45.52 | findlay | ~give goozbach Internet(R) |
| 05:45.54 | ibot | ACTION gives Internet(R) to goozbach |
| 05:46.03 | goozbach | so I have to 'borrow' internet access |
| 05:46.21 | ScytheBlade1 | my friend recieved a laptop for his graduation present. |
| 05:46.29 | goozbach | well goodnights |
| 05:46.32 | ScytheBlade1 | He's on dial-up, single phone line |
| 05:46.41 | ScytheBlade1 | He turns on his wireless |
| 05:46.41 | maquis | night goo |
| 05:46.48 | ScytheBlade1 | "Unsecured high speed network detected" |
| 05:46.48 | findlay | later goozbach |
| 05:46.56 | dkelson | ping |
| 05:46.58 | goozbach | dkelson: what puts you online anywho? |
| 05:47.00 | ScytheBlade1 | mmm, stealing wifi |
| 05:47.02 | ScytheBlade1 | dkelson, pong |
| 05:47.07 | ScytheBlade1 | goozbach, night, enjoy your wifi |
| 05:47.36 | dkelson | you doing the treo plus bluetooth DUN action or just Treo? |
| 05:47.58 | goozbach | stick the laptop in the back corner of the house, and steal from the neibhbor |
| 05:48.14 | goozbach | wifi |
| 05:48.29 | goozbach | I never got DUN working |
| 05:49.23 | dkelson | well I better go keep my wife awake |
| 05:49.36 | maquis | dkelson: you should join us more often here |
| 05:49.38 | maquis | it's fun |
| 05:49.51 | dkelson | herlo is the next Guru |
| 05:49.59 | dkelson | we are still hiring |
| 05:50.01 | maquis | (and get lamont on here more often... it's been a while since he's been around) |
| 05:50.07 | goozbach | he made that announcemnt earier |
| 05:50.10 | dkelson | looking for more Linux geeks |
| 05:50.12 | maquis | dkelson: if i didn't have a job after graduation, i'd be applying |
| 05:50.38 | dkelson | cool |
| 05:50.40 | maquis | doubt i'd get it, but i'd definitely apply |
| 05:50.53 | dkelson | tell ur friends to apply |
| 05:51.03 | maquis | :) |
| 05:51.15 | findlay | dkelson: that's cool herlo got hired, he's a great guy (: |
| 05:51.17 | goozbach | maquis: you'd be a good hire if only for the interesting troubleshooting problems that seem to follow your |
| 05:51.24 | maquis | goozbach: true... |
| 05:51.27 | goozbach | s/your/you/ |
| 05:51.33 | maquis | i'd be pretty good at setting up for the troubleshooting class.... |
| 05:51.35 | maquis | :) |
| 05:51.48 | goozbach | I'm really out now. |
| 05:51.49 | goozbach | laters |
| 05:52.09 | maquis | "how to make vim take 3 seconds or more to load when you are in screen, but still have it load instantaneously when you're not in screen" |
| 05:52.13 | findlay | good friend, you are most welcome |
| 05:52.14 | dkelson | check my blog |
| 05:52.28 | maquis | dkelson: are you on the utah planet thingamajigger? |
| 05:52.36 | dkelson | yes |
| 05:52.38 | maquis | k |
| 05:52.52 | maquis | just have to set up rss first |
| 05:53.07 | maquis | ~mute findlay |
| 05:53.09 | ibot | ACTION bungs up findlay's vocal chords with cotton wool. |
| 05:53.09 | dkelson | 5400RPM is faster then 7200RPM |
| 05:53.19 | maquis | dkelson: oh... i did see that entry |
| 05:53.21 | maquis | sounded interesting |
| 05:53.31 | dkelson | when it's perpendicular |
| 05:53.39 | findlay | ~mute maquis |
| 05:53.40 | ibot | ACTION bungs up maquis's vocal chords with cotton wool. |
| 05:53.46 | maquis | so... whatcha doin with the old drive? :) |
| 05:54.18 | ScytheBlade1 | Okay, time to sleep |
| 05:54.22 | ScytheBlade1 | Be back in a week, all |
| 05:54.26 | findlay | bah, sleepers |
| 05:54.37 | ScytheBlade1 | I've gotta be up at 5:40! |
| 05:54.44 | dkelson | it's cool to think of the mini disco ball and music inside of my new drive |
| 05:54.44 | findlay | ~wake ScytheBlade1 |
| 05:54.46 | ibot | ScytheBlade1: GOOD MORNING!!! |
| 05:54.52 | vontrapp | ~praise rachmaninov |
| 05:54.53 | ibot | All hail rachmaninov! |
| 05:54.54 | ScytheBlade1 | -.- |
| 05:55.01 | findlay | ~wakeup ScytheBlade1 |
| 05:55.02 | ibot | ACTION silently aproaches ScytheBlade1, who's sleeping (zZzZZZzzZZ, Ronc !!! ronc!), gets off his pants and shoots a noisy fart ... PUBFBFBFBBBFFF!!! |
| 05:55.17 | dkelson | nite |
| 05:55.17 | ScytheBlade1 | ...thanks |
| 05:55.20 | maquis | dkelson: gnight |
| 05:55.20 | ScytheBlade1 | :) |
| 05:55.23 | ScytheBlade1 | night all |
| 05:55.23 | vontrapp | findlay: i heard gustav mahlers 2nd symphony (resurrection) again today |
| 05:55.24 | maquis | say hi to the office for me :) |
| 05:55.26 | vontrapp | this time on tv |
| 05:55.39 | vontrapp | it was so so so awesome live |
| 05:55.40 | findlay | vontrapp: my favorite is no 4 |
| 05:55.43 | *** part/#utah ScytheBlade1 (n=Death@about/pxe/ScytheBlade1) |
| 05:55.46 | *** join/#utah ScytheBlade1 (n=Death@about/pxe/ScytheBlade1) |
| 05:55.48 | ScytheBlade1 | Wrong button. |
| 05:55.49 | findlay | or 9 |
| 05:56.00 | *** part/#utah dkelson (n=upirc@h460726d7.area7.spcsdns.net) |
| 05:56.23 | vontrapp | my favorite rachmaninov is variations on a theme of paganini |
| 05:56.35 | findlay | vontrapp: 9th by Karajan, BPO from the Berlin Festival from 1982 |
| 05:56.41 | findlay | best 9th out there |
| 05:57.07 | maquis | paganini? is that like an italian sandwich? |
| 05:57.21 | findlay | maquis: kind of |
| 05:57.26 | maquis | mmk |
| 05:57.28 | vontrapp | pastrami? |
| 05:57.38 | findlay | that's more like Rossini |
| 05:57.45 | vontrapp | linguini |
| 05:59.54 | findlay | Cherubini |
| 06:01.23 | findlay | and speghetti is Puccini |
| 06:02.22 | *** join/#utah Mecworks (n=marc@208-186-182-173.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 06:02.29 | findlay | the Italian translator will be out for the next few hours |
| 06:06.19 | QBFreak | arrrrg |
| 06:06.46 | QBFreak | anyone know anything about Qt in C++? |
| 06:09.37 | *** join/#utah xbmodder_lappy (i=nobody@unaffiliated/xbmodder) |
| 06:10.05 | xbmodder_lappy | Hey, I remember a couple months ago someone in here posted about some python packet generator, anyone know the name to that? |
| 06:10.16 | maquis | scapy? |
| 06:11.10 | xbmodder_lappy | Thanks! |
| 06:11.19 | xbmodder_lappy | maquis, Have you played with scapy? |
| 06:11.25 | maquis | nope |
| 06:15.24 | levi | So, the guy who taught my OS class last term just got convicted of fraud for running a Ponzi scheme. |
| 06:17.16 | levi | I guess the charges were filed in 2002. |
| 06:18.14 | xbmodder_lappy | hehe |
| 06:19.32 | levi | Wow, the first complaint against him was filed in 2000. |
| 06:20.12 | tensai | the answer is pork belly! |
| 06:21.11 | tensai | I've been looking for a specific cut of meat known as "butaniku" in japan. turns out it's just plain ole uncured pork belly. |
| 06:21.15 | tensai | how simple |
| 06:21.33 | levi | Heh. |
| 06:21.46 | levi | No wonder he was teaching at UVSC. His assets were frozen in 2000. |
| 06:21.56 | tensai | levi: what's the url of your chef friend's blog? |
| 06:22.06 | maquis | levi: isn't that the teacher you didn't like? |
| 06:22.06 | levi | ahoyhoy.org |
| 06:22.14 | levi | maquis: Yup. |
| 06:22.31 | levi | maquis: Well, I didn't like him as a teacher. He seemed like a nice enough guy, though. |
| 06:22.53 | tensai | ~dict ponzi |
| 06:24.43 | QBFreak | Google sayeth: "A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that involves paying returns to investors out of the money raised from subsequent investors, rather than from profits generated by any real business. A Ponzi scheme offers high short-term returns in order to entice new investors, whose money is needed to fund payouts to earlier investors, and to lure its victims into ever-bigger risks. " |
| 06:28.01 | xbmodder_lappy | Anyone want to comment on this idea: |
| 06:29.02 | xbmodder_lappy | hacking openvpn to send traffic over two routes (connections to the internet), effectively giving your the bandwidth of both your connections, and giving you any (well not _any_) IP you want. |
| 06:30.21 | xbmodder_lappy | Sort of like: |
| 06:30.22 | xbmodder_lappy | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:30.22 | xbmodder_lappy | ME--OpenVPN+iproute2 server----bridge----internet |
| 06:30.22 | xbmodder_lappy | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:30.23 | tensai | wow. the wikipedia article on Ponzi is quite interesting |
| 06:30.52 | xbmodder_lappy | and the server would be based on a DS3, so you can get upto 2,400 IPs, your own RDNS, etc... |
| 06:31.22 | RyanE_ | lots of Thunder and Lightning here... |
| 06:31.38 | tensai | lots of sleepy eyes over here |
| 06:31.47 | RyanE_ | well yeah, I've got that, too. |
| 06:32.30 | tensai | you know that lightning is the number 1 weather killer in utah? |
| 06:33.03 | RyanE_ | I'd be surprised if more people are killed by lightning than killed by accidents in the snow. |
| 06:33.42 | tensai | that's what they kept saying on the news. I'm sure weather related car crashes aren't included in that total. |
| 06:33.57 | RyanE_ | wow. 20 second thunder. |
| 06:34.07 | maquis | RyanE_: where are you? |
| 06:34.13 | findlay | 20 seconds away |
| 06:34.14 | RyanE_ | highland |
| 06:34.28 | levi | Nothing here in Sandy |
| 06:34.32 | findlay | cool, triangulate the lightning |
| 06:34.51 | maquis | i couldn't tell what it was... and it wasn't quite 20 seconds... but it was an odd rumbling sound |
| 06:35.23 | RyanE_ | well, I don't have a stopwatch. Might've been 15. |
| 06:35.23 | levi | Darned rain might ruin my bike ride tomorrow. :( |
| 06:35.23 | xbmodder_lappy | Thats cool... |
| 06:35.30 | tensai | hmm. "Lightning is Utah's second deadliest natural hazard, trailing only avalanches." |
| 06:35.33 | xbmodder_lappy | If you had something to time the difference |
| 06:35.36 | tensai | RyanE_: guess I was wrong |
| 06:35.53 | xbmodder_lappy | if you could automate that, and have an IRC bot post it... |
| 06:36.05 | maquis | wha? |
| 06:36.16 | findlay | ~spell wha |
| 06:36.23 | maquis | weather.com says that we're supposed to get snow on monday |
| 06:36.25 | levi | Hmm, it should be partly cloudy and mid-60s by 5pm, so hopefully I'll be okay. |
| 06:36.26 | maquis | RyanE_: did you hear that one? |
| 06:36.30 | xbmodder_lappy | maquis, time the difference between lightning and thunder |
| 06:36.32 | maquis | it was a lot quieter... |
| 06:36.35 | RyanE_ | two of them. |
| 06:36.39 | RyanE_ | and closer to me. |
| 06:36.44 | maquis | xbmodder_lappy: i can't see it.... |
| 06:36.48 | RyanE_ | one to the east, right on the mountains, other one to the west again. |
| 06:36.53 | maquis | hmmm |
| 06:37.04 | maquis | they seemed more quiet to me... :) |
| 06:37.53 | xbmodder_lappy | oh :-( |
| 06:38.45 | levi | Crap, no, the detailed forecast says still around 40% chance of rain at 5pm, and only 57 degrees. |
| 06:47.19 | RyanE_ | maquis: you probably heard that one... |
| 06:47.25 | maquis | RyanE_: no |
| 06:47.35 | RyanE_ | 6 seconds after lightning, still rumbling |
| 06:47.40 | maquis | although, i wasn't listening particularly hard... |
| 06:47.58 | RyanE_ | *started* 6 seconds after, up here, but lightning was in south, so I thought maybe it was your way. |
| 06:48.07 | maquis | hmmm |
| 06:48.07 | maquis | weird |
| 06:49.02 | findlay | can't you guys give me a little warning so I can take my headphones off in time? |
| 06:49.14 | findlay | in order to hear the thunder, that is |
| 06:49.21 | RyanE_ | findlay: location? |
| 06:49.21 | maquis | findlay: uh... sure? |
| 06:49.49 | maquis | i think he's in provo too |
| 06:49.57 | maquis | provo or orem or something |
| 06:50.27 | findlay | http://www.google.com/local?f=q&hl=en&q=&ll=40.255195,-111.66505&spn=0.002059,0.003154&t=h |
| 06:51.12 | findlay | I'd like a warning like 5 or 10 seconds before the lightning |
| 06:51.23 | findlay | thanks |
| 06:52.17 | RyanE_ | is that a house, or apartments? |
| 06:52.25 | findlay | it's apartmenst |
| 06:52.25 | RyanE_ | I recognize REAMS, but that's about it... |
| 06:52.32 | findlay | the reams is gone |
| 06:52.50 | RyanE_ | yeah, I heard it was torn down. |
| 06:53.16 | RyanE_ | I finished up BYU at Raintree |
| 06:53.20 | RyanE_ | not too far from there. |
| 06:53.29 | findlay | I drove by Saturday morning on the way to the eletronics store and on the way back it was crumbled |
| 06:54.27 | RyanE_ | I heard they built that place originally by making a pile of dirt, pouring the concrete, then excavating it. |
| 06:58.42 | RyanE_ | 'night. |
| 06:59.18 | findlay | later |
| 07:14.29 | findlay | ~hug gentoo |
| 07:14.30 | ibot | ACTION hugs gentoo |
| 07:18.52 | *** join/#utah jnbek_ (n=jnbek@c-67-166-97-223.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 08:03.54 | findlay | http://67.137.24.114/screenshot.png |
| 08:04.05 | findlay | what's that widget called to the right of the combo box? |
| 08:06.53 | *** join/#utah jnbek (n=jnbek@c-67-166-97-223.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 08:09.18 | maquis | findlay: the separator? |
| 08:09.25 | findlay | maquis: yeah |
| 08:09.33 | findlay | but it's movable |
| 08:10.03 | findlay | doesn't it have a special name? |
| 08:35.45 | *** join/#utah jnbek_ (n=jnbek@c-67-166-97-223.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 08:41.24 | QBFreak | FunkyMovableSeperatorThingy |
| 09:34.20 | bertbob | http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap060411.html |
| 10:01.38 | *** join/#utah jnbek (n=jnbek@c-67-166-97-223.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 10:13.29 | *** join/#utah jnbek_ (n=jnbek@c-67-166-97-223.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 10:47.17 | *** join/#utah RyanE (n=ryan@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 11:06.27 | *** join/#utah jnbek__ (n=jnbek@c-67-166-97-223.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 12:05.37 | *** join/#utah ScytheBlade1 (n=Death@about/pxe/ScytheBlade1) |
| 12:09.59 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch@66.239.25.80.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 12:34.21 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch@66.239.25.80.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 12:58.48 | goozbach | bah! |
| 12:58.55 | goozbach | bah! I say! |
| 13:00.12 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 13:04.46 | *** join/#utah synic (n=synic@pdpc/supporter/student/synic) |
| 13:44.03 | *** join/#utah RyanE_ (n=ryan@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 13:49.34 | *** join/#utah bertbob (n=bertbob@c-67-166-126-128.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 13:52.52 | *** join/#utah atoponce (n=aaron@c-24-2-85-66.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 13:54.24 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch@66.239.25.80.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 14:09.36 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@204.14.21.69) |
| 14:10.57 | *** join/#utah synic (n=synic@pdpc/supporter/student/synic) |
| 14:14.12 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@38.119.178.10) |
| 14:15.29 | *** join/#utah phinux (n=phinux@iocane.cs.byu.edu) |
| 14:21.35 | *** join/#utah RyanE (n=ryan@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 14:25.00 | *** join/#utah Jayce^ (n=Jayce_@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 14:25.00 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 14:26.37 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@hfugal.NMSU.Edu) |
| 14:38.26 | elg | -rps scissors |
| 14:38.26 | brac | paper. You win. |
| 14:40.18 | tensai | -rps sledge hammer |
| 14:40.18 | brac | incorrect usage: roshambo <rock|paper|scissors> => play roshambo |
| 14:40.22 | *** join/#utah EC1 (n=ECS@128.187.156.253) |
| 14:51.47 | *** join/#utah SpecialZ (n=mse@128.187.138.147) |
| 14:59.56 | *** join/#utah RyanE_ (n=ryan@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 15:08.37 | *** join/#utah robdor (n=rob@208.187.196.58) |
| 15:23.29 | *** join/#utah herlo (n=csavage@198.252.209.251) |
| 15:30.27 | xbmodder1 | hwy |
| 15:32.50 | *** join/#utah levi (n=levi@66.239.25.2.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 15:34.10 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (n=linuxali@c-24-2-85-20.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 15:34.38 | goozbach | I blame cananda |
| 15:36.43 | *** join/#utah graphyx (n=mkling@12.174.37.165) |
| 15:38.35 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 15:38.35 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 15:45.54 | *** join/#utah TacoJockey (n=linuxali@host-73.colo.spiretech.com) |
| 15:46.12 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 15:47.25 | levi | sjansen: So, you're presenting to PLUG tomorrow? |
| 15:48.13 | Jayce^ | yes he is :) |
| 15:48.53 | goozbach | ha ha! |
| 15:48.56 | levi | I can probably even make it to this one. |
| 15:49.32 | Jayce^ | did you see the new location? |
| 15:49.40 | levi | Yup. |
| 15:51.54 | goozbach | I'm so out of money till I get paid... |
| 15:51.59 | goozbach | it's sad |
| 15:52.30 | *** part/#utah EC1 (n=ECS@128.187.156.253) |
| 15:52.51 | TacoJockey | Check out this article: http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1947561,00.asp |
| 15:52.53 | brac | [Return of the Web Mob] |
| 15:53.50 | sjansen | linuxalien: What if I don't? You gonna send some goons over to "persuade" me to read it? |
| 15:54.34 | linuxalien | hahaha |
| 15:54.46 | linuxalien | Nope, it's an article on how the russian mob is involved in hacking |
| 15:55.48 | goozbach | I wonder if it would be a bad idea to use mirror.playboy.com as a yum repo here... |
| 15:56.03 | levi | sjansen: You better do a good job with your presentation; I'm going to write up a review for my public speaking class. ;) |
| 15:57.49 | sjansen | levi: I ain't gonna talk purty f'r ya. Ya c'nuh scare me wit yur threats. |
| 15:59.13 | *** part/#utah phinux (n=phinux@iocane.cs.byu.edu) |
| 16:01.47 | elg | -lart sjansen |
| 16:01.54 | elg | that'll prep ya real gut |
| 16:13.28 | sjansen | Bah, softmac is flooding my syslog. |
| 16:16.16 | sjansen | vontrapp: Have you been using the bcm43xx drivers? What've you thought of them so far? |
| 16:17.24 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp40.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 16:26.51 | *** join/#utah Hhhhh (n=Hhhhhhhh@158.91.201.220) |
| 16:35.08 | harleypig | any pointers on making a dual monitor setup work? I've got a laptop screen and a dvi-out that is cloned right now. |
| 16:37.21 | elg | harleypig: it's two stages. get the hardware to work, get the X stuff to work, and get your window manager to work |
| 16:37.24 | elg | then learn to count |
| 16:37.38 | Jayce^ | priceless elg |
| 16:38.11 | harleypig | huh? |
| 16:38.21 | harleypig | what did I miscount? |
| 16:38.54 | harleypig | The hardware seems to be working, the second monitor is cloning the first ... |
| 16:39.33 | elg | i miscounted |
| 16:39.41 | elg | well cloning is a good start |
| 16:39.48 | elg | but not the end result |
| 16:41.09 | *** join/#utah bzob (n=bzobrist@nat.myfamilyinc.com) |
| 16:44.21 | harleypig | I've got the twinview option set. |
| 16:44.34 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp40.cs.nmsu.edu) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 16:44.34 | *** join/#utah jlp_work (n=jlp@67.106.37.5) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 16:44.34 | *** join/#utah tewk (n=tewk@192.41.88.101) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 16:44.35 | QBFreak | and there he went... |
| 16:44.39 | QBFreak | or not |
| 16:44.54 | elg | wee |
| 16:44.57 | QBFreak | I resolved the seperate desktop issue, dunno who was helping me the other day |
| 16:45.54 | harleypig | I've got the twinview option set. |
| 16:47.22 | sjansen | o/~ Brave, brave, brave, brave sir Robin. ~/o |
| 16:48.32 | QBFreak | harleypig: I have no idea how to do it in the .conf, I used redhat's graphical tool to set it up :) |
| 16:49.04 | lars-ut | sjansen: "Now we see the violence inherent in the system." |
| 16:49.33 | *** join/#utah dataw0lf (n=dataw0lf@70.103.239.58) |
| 16:50.52 | sjansen | *sigh* FC5's Firefox seems to be all wonked out. |
| 16:51.07 | QBFreak | works ok for me |
| 16:51.30 | harleypig | I don't suppose anyone knows of a magical tool that discovers everything, configures it optimally and just makes it work? |
| 16:51.48 | sjansen | harleypig: Mac OS X? |
| 16:52.10 | lars-ut | Anybody else seeing packet loss from gmail/google the past few minutes? |
| 16:52.24 | QBFreak | I was about to say windows, but I don't know that it would configure it optimally...it set up my dual display quite well though :) |
| 16:54.43 | obfuscated | sjansen: I had some issues with it and flash, but not really any other probs |
| 16:54.52 | QBFreak | lars-ut: just read all my unread mail, no issues |
| 16:55.08 | herlo | lars-ut: not me |
| 16:55.11 | lars-ut | QBFreak: thx |
| 16:55.18 | lars-ut | herlo: thx |
| 16:55.24 | obfuscated | it seems actually more stable than FC4 |
| 16:55.30 | obfuscated | (FC5) |
| 16:55.59 | harleypig | sjansen: :P |
| 16:56.10 | QBFreak | my only complaint was that when I get a pile of tabs open, switching windows is a little slow |
| 16:56.15 | obfuscated | I got the composite transluecency to work on my laptop with it even |
| 16:56.32 | obfuscated | doesn't crash at least like it did w/ FC4 |
| 16:59.00 | dataw0lf | lars-ut: there are some serious problems right now. |
| 16:59.07 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 16:59.42 | lars-ut | dataw0lf: backbone problems? |
| 16:59.48 | dataw0lf | lars-ut: Yea, with XO in San Jose. |
| 17:00.27 | Jayce^ | anybody using the 'new' mailman config style for exim on debian? the one that uses the POSTFIX_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS to auto-load stuff? |
| 17:00.48 | Jayce^ | as documented in the README.Exim4.gz |
| 17:02.59 | mheath | gotta go out to roy later... |
| 17:03.11 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@class1-nat.gurulabs.com) |
| 17:03.15 | *** join/#utah findlay (n=justin@67.137.24.114) |
| 17:03.55 | JoshH | ELI is having issues too |
| 17:04.22 | JoshH | at PAIX |
| 17:04.32 | sjansen | That's good to hear, maybe the issues I'm having aren't FC5's fault. |
| 17:04.41 | elg | not likely |
| 17:05.10 | lars-ut | backbone packet loss all over the place this morning.. backbone chi is low |
| 17:05.22 | mheath | hmmm |
| 17:05.48 | mheath | Does comcast in SLC area piggyback on another broviders backbones? |
| 17:05.56 | mheath | Didn't think they had a nationwide network |
| 17:06.01 | *** join/#utah Robdor_ (n=rob@208.187.196.58) |
| 17:06.27 | lars-ut | it's already improving |
| 17:06.35 | mheath | yeah |
| 17:06.40 | mheath | nothing like this lasts long |
| 17:06.42 | lars-ut | the bigger the problem the faster they should fix it in theory |
| 17:06.50 | mheath | there was a similar problem a few months(?) ago |
| 17:06.51 | *** join/#utah amcnabb (n=amcnabb@128.187.189.107) |
| 17:06.58 | lars-ut | dataw0lf already noticed it with XO backbone |
| 17:07.08 | mheath | couple backbone providers having trouble |
| 17:07.18 | JoshH | it should be fixed now |
| 17:07.22 | mheath | actually effected me to the point where I literally couldn't access about half the internet for half the night |
| 17:07.29 | mheath | lars-ut, well, yeah, they're big problems...... |
| 17:07.35 | dataw0lf | it's back |
| 17:07.41 | mheath | But keep in mind, the majority of the country depends on this technology |
| 17:07.43 | lars-ut | confirmed for me as well |
| 17:07.49 | mheath | Problems get fixed *FAST* |
| 17:08.00 | lars-ut | dataw0lf: my ELI connection looks good |
| 17:08.09 | dataw0lf | lars-ut: same |
| 17:08.26 | elg | no way man. apocalypse. some sunday the whole internet is going to dye and we're all toast. |
| 17:08.43 | elg | unless we can live off the bugs in the mountains |
| 17:08.47 | lars-ut | elg: we'll just re-route |
| 17:09.03 | elg | no you're not listening, the lady bugs will turn against the internet |
| 17:09.08 | lars-ut | lol |
| 17:09.23 | mheath | the lady bugs we're eating? |
| 17:09.30 | mheath | Wouldn't they like the internet? |
| 17:09.32 | elg | they're smarter than that. |
| 17:09.39 | elg | they want it for themselves |
| 17:09.41 | mheath | Seeing as how its demise caused us to want to eat them? |
| 17:09.45 | mheath | Ah. |
| 17:09.52 | lars-ut | unless... the ladybugs are the internet. Maybe they'll become white LED emitters and we'll use 'em for transmission |
| 17:09.52 | Jayce^ | hrm, looks like the discussion went to Plug... |
| 17:10.04 | mheath | bleh, I never want kids |
| 17:10.07 | elg | either them or the europeans. they want to oust american control and make us all give up our .com domains |
| 17:10.07 | mheath | GO AWAY, YOU |
| 17:10.37 | lars-ut | ICANN may suck but it's better than the alternatives |
| 17:10.59 | elg | i get a kick out of people who get all up in arms about american control of the internet |
| 17:11.05 | lars-ut | Almost time for Tucano's - oh yeah... churrasco! |
| 17:11.16 | elg | it's not like the internet was handed down as a whole thing from on-high and we said "here, we'll just control that" |
| 17:11.31 | mheath | Even got done with a client library and nameserver for it |
| 17:13.27 | mheath | com.comcast.ut.ogden.fheath :) |
| 17:13.31 | JoshH | heh exactly elg |
| 17:13.42 | JoshH | who do they think created the internet, spain? |
| 17:14.09 | elg | hello! my name is inigo montoya. you killed my internet. prepare to die |
| 17:14.11 | mheath | JoshH, but..but....but! Baaaaahhh! I want to play with it tooooooo! |
| 17:14.13 | lars-ut | weird - just called back ELI & their message has gotten worse: "This is an Electric Lightwave Network Advisory: We are currently experiencing network-wide packet loss." |
| 17:14.21 | mheath | How come you get all the shiny .com extensions and I only get .eu!? |
| 17:14.24 | mheath | NO FAIR! :( |
| 17:15.23 | sjansen | That's it, I quit. I'm moving to Montana and writing books about how the Internet is evil. |
| 17:15.41 | levi | sjansen: Is there any money in that? |
| 17:15.48 | elg | sorry, the ladybugs already took montana |
| 17:16.02 | levi | sjansen: And how do you get an internet connection out there? |
| 17:16.08 | lars-ut | elg: Hoover Dam! |
| 17:16.10 | Bradipo | levi: I'm sure there are people that would buy it, but maybe not enough to fund his Internet connection... |
| 17:16.22 | mheath | levi, he's writing books baout how the evil internet causes people to ask evil questions like is there any money in writing books about how evil the internet is |
| 17:16.24 | elg | i thought that was near las vegas? |
| 17:16.36 | mheath | It's a rather recurssive topic |
| 17:16.40 | lars-ut | nah, I've just watched the Penguins Christmas Caper too many times |
| 17:16.42 | mheath | don't expect a release soon |
| 17:17.04 | levi | mheath: I wasn't seriously asking the question. |
| 17:17.45 | mheath | levi, But, are you joking about telling me that you were serious about asking questions about the joking topic? |
| 17:18.28 | mheath | If you look at these questions too long, you'll actually start to become physically fatigued. |
| 17:24.18 | *** join/#utah Bradipo (i=bradipo@xmission.xmission.com) |
| 17:24.43 | amcnabb | Does anyone see anything wrong with this?: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=9708759382&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1 |
| 17:24.57 | amcnabb | Other than the fact that there's no CDROM drive, which I don't have any problem with. |
| 17:25.26 | amcnabb | It seems like it's pretty well-designed. |
| 17:26.00 | Jayce^ | are you just looking for a 1U in general, or need to whole working system? |
| 17:26.27 | amcnabb | I want a cheap 1U system to replace my current firewall that's taking up a lot of space. |
| 17:26.44 | amcnabb | Network interfaces and PCI slots are desirable. |
| 17:26.49 | graphyx | The last expereince I had with fans that looked like the case fan, they are loud and quiet jittery.. |
| 17:26.57 | graphyx | But other than that nothing wrong with it. |
| 17:27.01 | amcnabb | graphyx, that's good to know. |
| 17:27.06 | graphyx | Unless he really meant 40MB instead of 40BG. |
| 17:27.11 | goozbach | fozzmoo has a decent system he builds that's 1U |
| 17:27.21 | amcnabb | goozbach, how much is it? |
| 17:27.21 | graphyx | the t3ext says 40MB |
| 17:27.33 | graphyx | But I do'nt think it is a 40MB drive |
| 17:27.33 | amcnabb | graphyx, from the picture it's clear that it's 40GB |
| 17:27.35 | Jayce^ | hrm, I've got some old 1u's sitting around... questionable stuff in them |
| 17:27.41 | graphyx | exactly |
| 17:28.04 | amcnabb | Jayce^, I think I'd be interested in seeing what you have and what you want for them. |
| 17:28.17 | graphyx | Buy 2-$100 each |
| 17:28.17 | graphyx | 3-$90 each |
| 17:28.17 | graphyx | 4 or more:$80 |
| 17:28.25 | graphyx | so you can get a second for $75 |
| 17:28.30 | amcnabb | yeah |
| 17:28.35 | graphyx | 3rd for 70 ontop of that. |
| 17:28.45 | graphyx | and a 4th for 60 more. |
| 17:28.53 | amcnabb | Or get some friends together. |
| 17:31.01 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=fungus@firebat.aros.net) |
| 17:34.23 | graphyx | Those are cheap units. |
| 17:38.42 | amcnabb | There's at least something good that comes from someone going out of business. |
| 17:41.49 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@class1-nat.gurulabs.com) |
| 17:42.08 | tensai | ~mash sjansen |
| 17:42.09 | *** join/#utah Hhhhhhh (n=zic@158.91.201.220) |
| 17:43.34 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp40.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 17:44.14 | sjansen | Evil gremlins! |
| 17:44.26 | elg | -lart sjansen |
| 17:44.28 | sjansen | They've taken over my laptop, now they're taking over the Internet! |
| 17:44.40 | sjansen | nooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11 |
| 17:44.41 | elg | ~blame sjansen |
| 17:44.42 | ibot | ACTION blames sjansen for all the evil in the world |
| 17:45.13 | Hhhhhhh | -rlart |
| 17:45.21 | Hhhhhhh | stupid brac |
| 17:45.28 | elg | I must not be through any bad routes. The only thing I've noticed was a netsplit a bit ago |
| 17:46.14 | vontrapp | sjansen: yeah, they've been pretty good |
| 17:46.19 | vontrapp | better than ndiswrapper |
| 17:46.40 | vontrapp | though sometimes it will get into some funny state where it won't associate |
| 17:46.46 | vontrapp | i have to ip link set down then back up again |
| 17:46.52 | vontrapp | sometimes reload the driver |
| 17:47.39 | sjansen | vontrapp: Have you had any problems with softmac spewing output? |
| 17:49.02 | vontrapp | haven't noticed, haven't been looking at logs |
| 17:56.43 | findlay | stupid redhat and novell wanting DRM |
| 18:02.38 | findlay | ~nuke DRM |
| 18:02.39 | ibot | ACTION prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at DRM ... B☢☢M! |
| 18:09.13 | *** join/#utah spr (n=spr@ramona.cs.byu.edu) |
| 18:15.32 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp40.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 18:18.55 | sjansen | *sigh* Graphical programs started from the command line are no longer raised on opening. |
| 18:20.15 | sjansen | Anybody, per chance, know how to convince metacity to raise a window from the command line? |
| 18:21.37 | goozbach | use FVWM |
| 18:21.40 | goozbach | :) |
| 18:21.55 | elg | sjansen: spewing output? as in the debug stuff? |
| 18:22.07 | elg | it has pretty verbose logging, but I think that's a kernel option |
| 18:23.33 | goozbach | looks like metacity is mostly configured using gconf |
| 18:23.47 | elg | metacity is mostly configured using a toothbrush |
| 18:24.05 | sjansen | I've already poked around metacity's gconf settings. |
| 18:27.38 | elg | maybe it's time to get a real wm |
| 18:29.08 | goozbach | sjansen: it's not looking good: |
| 18:29.10 | goozbach | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:29.11 | goozbach | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:29.28 | goozbach | that's from the README in /usr/share/doc/metacity* |
| 18:31.47 | elg | this is what I think of when I think of metacity |
| 18:31.48 | elg | http://scriptures.lds.org/eph/4/14#14 |
| 18:31.49 | brac | [Eph. 4] |
| 18:32.23 | elg | o/~ All... All the people logging on! |
| 18:32.30 | elg | name that song |
| 18:33.24 | elg | fine, I'll give a link. I highly recommend this song |
| 18:33.26 | elg | http://www.helgo.net/gavel/lunar/ |
| 18:33.30 | elg | "Computerville" |
| 18:35.14 | obfuscated | BananaPhone! |
| 18:35.33 | obfuscated | name that song |
| 18:35.52 | obfuscated | sorry - don't have a link |
| 18:37.45 | elg | sounds like a song from goozbach's bananan republic |
| 18:39.06 | obfuscated | elg: you need that one |
| 18:56.34 | elg | what is it? |
| 18:56.52 | obfuscated | I'ts just a silly song called "Bananaphone" |
| 18:57.08 | obfuscated | we had it as hold music for our customers at one point |
| 18:58.30 | tensai | tt-monkeys is best for on-hold music |
| 19:01.48 | goozbach | is Safari books online worth it? |
| 19:01.49 | elg | lol |
| 19:02.01 | elg | if you get it for free like I do, then heck yes |
| 19:02.03 | goozbach | badger badger badger |
| 19:02.05 | elg | even so, I rarely use it |
| 19:02.11 | goozbach | elg: free, how? |
| 19:02.19 | elg | byu has an arrangement |
| 19:02.27 | elg | either by design or accident it still works for me |
| 19:02.52 | elg | well, still did last I checked |
| 19:04.27 | tensai | Jayce^: yeah, the mailman config is pretty cool. but I *hate* the debian exim4 config, split or otherwise. retarded, simply retarded. |
| 19:04.36 | elg | o/~ We are nerds, we rule the world |
| 19:05.30 | obfuscated | goozbach: we had a subscription at Media General and it was totally worth it for a company |
| 19:05.49 | obfuscated | I calculated the amount we were spending per year on books and a Safari subscription was way cheaper and gave us more |
| 19:12.27 | dataw0lf | tensai: agreed. I don't know what they were thinking with the exim4 config in Debian. |
| 19:13.40 | *** join/#utah bytheway_ (n=bbythewa@166.70.107.116) |
| 19:14.26 | tensai | dataw0lf: I can see what they were thinking with the split config, being able to add configs in as packages are installed. |
| 19:14.50 | tensai | but they totally botched it |
| 19:14.59 | Jayce^ | easier than sed'ing a file, but ugh.. |
| 19:15.03 | dataw0lf | tensai: I still think it's done incredibly wrong |
| 19:15.05 | dataw0lf | tensai: yeah |
| 19:15.45 | tensai | the one thing they did right is if you have an /etc/exim4/exim4.conf it overrides all the autogenerated stuff. that's what I do. |
| 19:17.33 | dataw0lf | tensai: same. |
| 19:17.45 | findlay | is there a plug meeting tonight? |
| 19:17.46 | QBFreak | whee, I crashed kpilot |
| 19:17.58 | tensai | findlay: yes, but you're not invited |
| 19:18.00 | findlay | tomorrow night, I mean |
| 19:18.15 | Jayce^ | findlay, tomorrow, check openclue for our posts, plug one will be updated soon |
| 19:18.39 | *** join/#utah bytheway (n=bbythewa@166.70.107.116) |
| 19:19.43 | Jayce^ | ta satisfeito lars-ut ? |
| 19:21.08 | QBFreak | any have any experience getting a palm device to work in Fedora Core 5? |
| 19:21.12 | QBFreak | err anyone |
| 19:21.42 | lars-ut | basta por enquanto |
| 19:23.01 | lars-ut | como eu disse para meu amigo durante a refeição - "Turn it over to red! We're done." Ele recusou. |
| 19:23.58 | lars-ut | Unfortunately the quantities of meat were consumed by 4 people all involved in game night, so once again, the Philly Cheesesteaks have been put on hold. |
| 19:24.08 | lars-ut | You can only consume so much meat in a day. |
| 19:24.37 | Jayce^ | really? |
| 19:26.41 | lars-ut | Maybe I'm just getting too old. |
| 19:26.58 | lars-ut | need more exercise to burn it off. |
| 19:27.42 | tensai | if you eat too much beef you'll grow a tail, or so I heard on the internet |
| 19:28.30 | Jayce^ | must be true then |
| 19:28.44 | harleypig | Does your chewing gum lose its flavor on the bedpost overnight? |
| 19:28.46 | tensai | a second stomach might be nice, but not if I have to chew a cud |
| 19:29.23 | lars-ut | getting ready to post for tonight's board game night now. If anybody is interested you can subscribe to the mailing lists or view archives here: http://mail.herlo.org/mailman/listinfo/boardgames_herlo.org |
| 19:29.31 | harleypig | lars-ut: How much meat is that? I've readh 10 pounds in a day at one point. |
| 19:29.41 | harleypig | DOn't think I could do that again though... |
| 19:30.43 | harleypig | now that I think about it ... it was probably closer to 12 pounds. |
| 19:30.53 | lars-ut | harleypig: All I know is that I ate arroz e feijão, and meat from at least 3 different 4 & 2 legged animals - seemed like a lot to me. I even refused dessert. |
| 19:31.16 | Jayce^ | lars-ut, e um farofinha? :-p |
| 19:31.23 | Jayce^ | fa-fa-fa-farofa1 |
| 19:31.25 | Jayce^ | ! |
| 19:31.29 | lars-ut | claro. |
| 19:32.07 | harleypig | lars-ut: A peanut butter and jellyfish sandwich. |
| 19:32.20 | harleypig | err ... dunno how lars-ut got prepended to that. |
| 19:32.57 | lars-ut | :) |
| 19:33.08 | lars-ut | It's funny looking at the translations for different foods at the Tucano's salad bar signs... arroz = rice, feijão = beans, farofa = farofa. |
| 19:41.55 | harleypig | It was a one eyed, one horned flying people eater ... |
| 19:42.20 | harleypig | I wouldn't eat you 'cause your so tough ... |
| 19:43.11 | harleypig | I like short shorts! |
| 19:43.15 | findlay | what's the URL to google's jabber server? |
| 19:43.41 | QBFreak | open gmail and look in the help, they have info on that there |
| 19:44.15 | scott_ | so here's a question: after you've applied for a job (resume & coverletter) that's really sweet and perfect for you, is there anything that's appropriate and not annoying to do to help your chances of getting the job? the reviewers email and phone are listed on the job application but the submission is done through some web form. is a phone call bugging, and if not, what's good to say? |
| 19:44.17 | harleypig | Somebody put Dr Dimento on our music server, dang them. |
| 19:44.21 | findlay | http://www.google.com/talk/otherclients.html |
| 19:44.22 | brac | [Google Talk] |
| 19:44.30 | *** join/#utah RyanE (n=ryan@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 19:44.37 | harleypig | People just ignore me for some reason. |
| 19:44.40 | harleypig | I don't understand. |
| 19:44.46 | harleypig | They did the monster mash ... |
| 19:44.59 | harleypig | The zombies ere having fun ... |
| 19:45.01 | findlay | there |
| 19:45.03 | harleypig | :D |
| 19:45.28 | harleypig | just remember 'day-glo orange' and 'speedo' |
| 19:45.32 | tensai | scott_: it's appropriate to make a follow up call. actually I wouldn't have my current job if I hadn't as they lost my original resume. |
| 19:45.53 | tensai | scott_: unless the job posting says "no phone calls", in which case it's pretty stupid to put your phone number on the posting |
| 19:46.07 | harleypig | Soon I'll have my compression stocking and I can say I wear spandex too. :> |
| 19:47.36 | Jayce^ | harleypig, I put it up there |
| 19:48.31 | harleypig | dang you |
| 19:48.36 | harleypig | just, dang you |
| 19:48.43 | scott_ | tensai: and just ask if they've recieved my application, or also ask if they've looked at it and made a decision? |
| 19:48.57 | scott_ | (I only applied yesterday) |
| 19:49.42 | tensai | wait a few days at least. make sure they received it, ask if they had any questions. I wouldn't ask if they decided to hire you. They'll certainly let you know. |
| 19:50.05 | tensai | but ask when they will make a decision, that's a good one |
| 19:52.25 | scott_ | all right, thanks |
| 19:55.16 | *** join/#utah Bradipo (i=bradipo@xmission.xmission.com) |
| 19:56.03 | QBFreak | hmm |
| 19:57.46 | findlay | mmh |
| 19:58.33 | mheath | bah, I tried a higher screen resolution |
| 19:58.47 | mheath | staring at this screen for hours, reading text for these online classes though.... |
| 19:58.52 | mheath | my eyes are ready to fall out of my head |
| 20:09.58 | levi | Higher resolutions are very nice if you also raise the font size so they're still readable. |
| 20:13.00 | tensai | or use binoculars |
| 20:20.00 | tensai | wow. this 1lb bag of m&ms has over 2700 calories. |
| 20:20.25 | tensai | those are peanut m&ms if you were curious |
| 20:21.03 | *** join/#utah Robdor (n=rob@208.187.196.58) |
| 20:24.49 | findlay | that's enough calories for one whole day, don't need to eat anything after that |
| 20:26.06 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@204.14.21.69.utahbroadband.com) |
| 20:26.18 | mheath | Depends on what your day is |
| 20:26.38 | mheath | I've eaten MREs before. Military MREs are like 4,000 calories |
| 20:26.55 | mheath | Kinda odd though. Most other countries provide nutrition for 24 hours in their military rations |
| 20:27.08 | mheath | MREs aren't designed to give you everything you need for 24 hours though |
| 20:29.02 | tensai | findlay: that's why they're called junk food. you get all your calories but practicall no nutrients |
| 20:33.59 | harleypig | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:34.00 | harleypig | With no last name |
| 20:34.00 | harleypig | Kinda homely and plain |
| 20:34.02 | harleypig | But he loves her just the same |
| 20:34.03 | *** join/#utah ^Migs^ (n=Migs@205.122.50.21) |
| 20:42.43 | harleypig | dead puppies ... |
| 20:42.47 | harleypig | aren't much fun ... |
| 20:42.53 | harleypig | they don't chase cars ... |
| 20:43.02 | harleypig | or roll in the dirt ... |
| 20:43.21 | harleypig | dead dead dead puppies ... |
| 20:44.11 | goozbach | ohh!!! http://news.com.com/Best+Buy+to+stock+shelves+with+ThinkPads/2100-1044_3-6059690.html?tag=nefd.top |
| 20:44.12 | brac | [Best Buy to stock shelves with ThinkPads | CNET News.com] |
| 20:44.31 | harleypig | star trekkin' ... |
| 20:44.36 | harleypig | across the univers .... |
| 20:44.41 | harleypig | boldly going forward ... |
| 20:44.46 | harleypig | cuz we can't find reverse ... |
| 20:45.57 | dataw0lf | the firm? |
| 20:46.27 | harleypig | no, it's kinda jiggly |
| 20:48.46 | harleypig | It's just a jump to the left |
| 20:48.57 | elg | what's the html location bar escape for ) |
| 20:48.58 | harleypig | And then a step to the right |
| 20:49.07 | elg | i.e. is that hex ascii or what? |
| 20:50.03 | harleypig | I'm just a Sweet Transvestite from Transexual, Transylvania. |
| 20:50.35 | lars-ut | harleypig: slow day? |
| 20:50.50 | harleypig | waiting for a grep to finish on a *huge* file system. |
| 20:51.12 | harleypig | And I'm feeling sillier than usual. |
| 20:51.19 | mheath | it shows |
| 20:51.27 | harleypig | blame jayce ... he's the one who put dr dimento up on our music server. |
| 20:51.38 | lars-ut | Jayce^! |
| 20:52.36 | lars-ut | must resist... o/~ polka-dot undies... o/~ |
| 20:53.04 | mheath | harleypig, 78 days =) |
| 20:53.11 | lars-ut | ~toms diner |
| 20:53.12 | ibot | There's a woman on the outside looking inside Does she see me? No she does not really see me cause she sees her own reflection And I'm trying not to notice that she's hitching up her skirt And while she's straightening her stockings her hair Is getting wet... |
| 20:53.23 | mheath | MCRD *shudder* |
| 20:53.35 | lars-ut | ~bene gesserit |
| 20:53.37 | ibot | I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain. |
| 20:53.42 | harleypig | mheath: 3 months to hell :> |
| 20:53.46 | lars-ut | lol |
| 20:53.53 | mheath | < 3 months! =O |
| 20:54.06 | mheath | harleypig, did they do the Crucible when you were in, or was that after? |
| 20:54.27 | harleypig | Yeah. |
| 20:54.47 | mheath | Isn't that at the end of training? |
| 20:54.57 | harleypig | they haven't changed the names in the last 100 odd years, though they've modified the requirements and what it is. |
| 20:55.05 | mheath | I thought it was right before the eagle+globe+anchor ceremoney |
| 20:55.19 | mheath | but then, I was looking at the training matrix / calendar |
| 20:55.37 | harleypig | before graduation |
| 20:55.43 | mheath | and its at the end of the marksmanship / field training section. Like 4 weeks from graduation. |
| 20:56.01 | harleypig | everybody run ... |
| 20:56.05 | harleypig | the homecoming queens got a gun |
| 20:56.12 | mheath | haha |
| 20:56.36 | mheath | Where to go to eat lunch? |
| 20:56.38 | mheath | hmmm |
| 20:56.55 | harleypig | well, once you get past the hump it's pretty easy. |
| 20:56.56 | findlay | stupid gnome-terminal |
| 20:57.02 | findlay | ~lart gnome-terminal |
| 20:57.03 | *** join/#utah EvilHerbivore (n=dave@c-67-161-208-210.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 20:57.24 | findlay | my cousin says it was so easy he was laughing about it when he did it |
| 20:57.42 | harleypig | findlay: marine boot camp? |
| 20:58.25 | mheath | harleypig, He's joking. Me and dataw0lf got into some stupid argument last night where he was trying to tell me that Marines had it easy (dataw0lf being army) |
| 20:58.41 | harleypig | ah. |
| 20:59.00 | dataw0lf | when did I say Marines had it easy? |
| 20:59.04 | dataw0lf | Why are you putting words in my mouth? |
| 20:59.10 | harleypig | actually, we had a guy who grew up on a farm. He didn't have any problems. |
| 20:59.12 | dataw0lf | I said you shouldn't be talking about if you're not a Marine. |
| 20:59.13 | dataw0lf | that's what I said. |
| 20:59.14 | mheath | dataw0lf, The "Marines get issues 5 stress cards" thing? |
| 20:59.21 | harleypig | ? |
| 20:59.22 | findlay | harleypig: the crucible thingy |
| 20:59.24 | dataw0lf | I never said they got issued 5 stress cards. |
| 20:59.32 | mheath | I know you did. |
| 20:59.32 | dataw0lf | I said they now get issued stress cards |
| 20:59.37 | dataw0lf | after you declared the army did. |
| 20:59.50 | harleypig | what? you wave the card and the di backs off? |
| 20:59.50 | findlay | harleypig: my cousin thought it was easy |
| 20:59.51 | dataw0lf | Either way, keep my name out of your mouth, please. |
| 20:59.58 | harleypig | dataw0lf: :D |
| 21:00.01 | mheath | darn it, why don't I have logging on this computer? |
| 21:00.06 | dataw0lf | harleypig: apparently. |
| 21:00.24 | mheath | harleypig, I went poking around the internet after dataw0lf said they issued those |
| 21:00.29 | harleypig | holy crap. that's the stoopidest Idea I ever heard of. |
| 21:00.47 | mheath | harleypig, They don't issue those. Never have, never will, in the Marines. |
| 21:01.20 | mheath | Its a rumor. Been brought up constantly since the Navy issued 'stress cards' (cards with phone numbers of suicide hotlines and the like, apparently) (which they've long since discontinued) |
| 21:01.50 | mheath | Army has been introducing them though. I've talked to both the Marine and Army recruiters about that |
| 21:02.06 | mheath | They're trying to cut down on service member divorce, suicide, etc. rates |
| 21:02.40 | dataw0lf | mheath |
| 21:02.42 | dataw0lf | Marines do have them |
| 21:02.47 | dataw0lf | I |
| 21:02.47 | dataw0lf | have |
| 21:02.47 | dataw0lf | seen |
| 21:02.47 | dataw0lf | one |
| 21:02.57 | dataw0lf | I had one in my hand during Attack Pathfinder training that I went through with a couple Marines |
| 21:04.17 | mheath | dataw0lf, how come you can't find *ANYTHING* on the internet about them, then? |
| 21:04.23 | dataw0lf | who knows |
| 21:04.27 | harleypig | mheath: I think the crucible event your reading about is different than the one i went through. apparently, the crucible has been formalized. |
| 21:04.27 | mheath | I mean, I found one message board post of some guy talking about them |
| 21:04.31 | dataw0lf | try finding something on Attack Pathfinders on the internet |
| 21:04.36 | dataw0lf | or E&E training |
| 21:04.40 | mheath | He also said the Marines were shortening boot to 6 weeks and getting rid of the Crucible =P |
| 21:04.42 | dataw0lf | or urban warfare training |
| 21:04.52 | dataw0lf | I don't care what the recruiters told you |
| 21:05.05 | findlay | the internet doesn't know anything about that I invented light sabers last night |
| 21:05.07 | mheath | harleypig, I know it has....for about 10 years. I was just told and under the impression that it was right before the end. |
| 21:05.09 | dataw0lf | I was in a blackhawk with a couple marines during pathfinder training and we brought them up because it was a common rumor in the service |
| 21:05.15 | findlay | oops, I guess it will know now |
| 21:05.27 | dataw0lf | they told me it WAS happening |
| 21:05.38 | dataw0lf | and showed me a stress card that this one private had saved from boot |
| 21:05.45 | *** join/#utah Mecworks (n=marc@208-186-182-173.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 21:05.52 | dataw0lf | apparently because of all the commotion that happened during training because of 9/11 |
| 21:06.09 | dataw0lf | which I was going through pathfinder training about tw months after the towers were hit |
| 21:06.17 | dataw0lf | so I don't care if you can't find it on the internet. |
| 21:06.25 | dataw0lf | I don't care if some bum recruiters told you different. |
| 21:06.28 | findlay | the Internet knows everything! RUN!! |
| 21:06.44 | dataw0lf | I saw the stress card and heard the stories related to me from marines I went through various special ops training with |
| 21:06.50 | dataw0lf | I thought it was a joke, but it isn't. |
| 21:07.11 | dataw0lf | now back to backups |
| 21:07.14 | harleypig | dataw0lf: I'm finding rumours of it on the web, but nothing on maine.gov |
| 21:07.21 | harleypig | errr ... marine.gov |
| 21:07.53 | findlay | sjansen wants florida? |
| 21:08.08 | harleypig | ?! What the heck was I thinking? marine.gov? |
| 21:08.13 | harleypig | I'm going home and going to bed. |
| 21:08.49 | mheath | dataw0lf, all I can point you to is the snopes.com article |
| 21:09.01 | mheath | The whole point of their site is to research rumours |
| 21:09.06 | mheath | Tell if they're true or not |
| 21:09.15 | mheath | Stress cards in basic training is marked as FALSE |
| 21:09.20 | harleypig | mheath: link? |
| 21:09.20 | goozbach | I wish I would have bought the extended warranty for this laptop |
| 21:09.22 | goozbach | grr |
| 21:09.30 | dataw0lf | Again, I don't care what Google tells you |
| 21:09.33 | dataw0lf | or Snopes |
| 21:09.40 | dataw0lf | I was in Iraq 2 weeks before the invasion was on the news |
| 21:09.49 | dataw0lf | find that on the damned internet |
| 21:10.41 | harleypig | dataw0lf: are you aware that marines will perpetuate a joke on the other branches? I can't find anything on usmc.mil relating to this, positive or negative. |
| 21:10.46 | harleypig | which doesn't mean anything at all. |
| 21:10.52 | dataw0lf | harleypig: which I thought it was too. |
| 21:10.57 | dataw0lf | trust me |
| 21:10.59 | harleypig | but they were serious? |
| 21:11.01 | dataw0lf | I served with alot of Marines |
| 21:11.05 | dataw0lf | it was true |
| 21:11.12 | dataw0lf | now, maybe it was just a reaction to 9/11 |
| 21:11.13 | levi | The snopes article was lasted updated in 2002. |
| 21:11.25 | dataw0lf | yea, they were serious |
| 21:11.30 | levi | (for whatever that's worth) |
| 21:11.37 | levi | And I can't type. |
| 21:13.19 | lars-ut | dataw0lf: You'll likely want to leave around 8:15pm to get to game night on time tonight. |
| 21:13.25 | lars-ut | :) |
| 21:13.37 | dataw0lf | heh |
| 21:13.52 | dataw0lf | mebbe |
| 21:14.09 | mheath | Hmmm |
| 21:14.16 | harleypig | I could've used one or two of those cards ... though I probably would have lost them all if i tried to use them during midnight "training". :> |
| 21:14.21 | mheath | The HQ Commander of MCRD San Diego has a website + blog |
| 21:14.28 | mheath | maybe I should e-mail him about this :) |
| 21:14.51 | dataw0lf | go ahead. |
| 21:15.01 | harleypig | mheath: Don't trust anything a military man says to a civilian (or an underling) in an official capacity. |
| 21:15.03 | dataw0lf | I have serious doubts you'll ever make it through boot. |
| 21:15.13 | dataw0lf | so hope for some stress cards. |
| 21:15.29 | harleypig | and pray you don't get any "midnight training" |
| 21:15.45 | findlay | harleypig: nuh uh, I heard the SR-71 could go at least mach 26 and that's only half it's top speed |
| 21:16.12 | harleypig | findlay: you're gonna strip your gears changing topics that fast ... |
| 21:16.24 | mheath | dataw0lf, why do you have doubts? |
| 21:16.25 | harleypig | findlay: oh ... I see. |
| 21:16.26 | harleypig | :> |
| 21:16.39 | findlay | no way, I just modded my transmission |
| 21:16.57 | dataw0lf | mheath: because of your attitude. |
| 21:17.02 | dataw0lf | you have problems listening. |
| 21:17.10 | mheath | Heh. |
| 21:17.34 | dataw0lf | you'll either get beat up badly and make it through or drop out for a variety of reasons. |
| 21:17.35 | mheath | "mheath was arguing with me on IRC, so, therefore, he's going to have a bad attitude for and not listen to his drill instructor!" |
| 21:17.45 | dataw0lf | I'll put my money on you dropping out. |
| 21:18.34 | harleypig | dataw0lf: oranges or soap? |
| 21:19.08 | mheath | dataw0lf, I have attended a training identical in curriculum and similar in other aspects to USN basic training. |
| 21:19.42 | mheath | I was made RCPO, in charge of our company, almost immediately because of my superior preformance and the fact that I was the only one off the bus who knew all the info we were supposed to know. |
| 21:19.45 | harleypig | mheath: I've been trying to tell you, what you've been through has been purely physical ... |
| 21:19.51 | mheath | I graduated as a company honor cadet. |
| 21:20.06 | mheath | harleypig, I'm not trying to say that what I've been through is shit compared to USMC basic training. |
| 21:20.13 | RyanE | be sure to point that out to everyone within earshot in the first 2 minutes. |
| 21:20.19 | mheath | I have and do function well in military settings. |
| 21:20.27 | RyanE | that'll make you real popular |
| 21:20.34 | RyanE | certainly has worked wonders in here. |
| 21:20.50 | harleypig | You haven't *been* in military settings .. you've been a civilian playing at being a warrior. |
| 21:20.53 | emcnabb | haha |
| 21:20.59 | harleypig | admittedly, doing good job at it ... |
| 21:21.14 | harleypig | but still, a *civilian*. One who may someday become a warrior. |
| 21:21.30 | harleypig | But not entitled to be treated like everyone else in the military. |
| 21:21.30 | mheath | I know. |
| 21:21.36 | mheath | Didn't say that I was |
| 21:21.40 | mheath | I don't pretend to be |
| 21:21.42 | elg | ~chop ^Migs^ |
| 21:21.59 | elg | even ibot is scared of you migs |
| 21:22.10 | ^Migs^ | I'm just too awesome |
| 21:22.14 | mheath | I was just trying to use that as an example to point out that its stupid to base your opinion of how I function in settings like that by how I talk on here. |
| 21:22.23 | dataw0lf | you're not military |
| 21:22.40 | dataw0lf | some stupid ROTC program does not beget you any sort of stance to talk from |
| 21:22.42 | harleypig | mheath: but the way you are now is the way you'll be as a recruit. |
| 21:22.45 | dataw0lf | I suggest you go through boot |
| 21:22.57 | dataw0lf | harleypig: we always used soap |
| 21:22.57 | mheath | harleypig, Yes, but the me in person is not the me on IRC. |
| 21:23.05 | mheath | thats the only point I'm trying to make. |
| 21:23.07 | dataw0lf | oranges were harder to come by |
| 21:23.24 | harleypig | dataw0lf: the di's passed out the oranges |
| 21:23.24 | dataw0lf | some guys would even put the canisters from their masks in the pillow cases |
| 21:23.29 | dataw0lf | that hurts |
| 21:23.32 | dataw0lf | or so I assume |
| 21:23.32 | harleypig | diet privates were given special consideration. |
| 21:23.34 | goozbach | anyone here listen to Phil Hendire? |
| 21:23.38 | mheath | Soap was the choice at that first training I went to |
| 21:23.41 | dataw0lf | I wasn't idiot enough to a party thrown for me |
| 21:23.42 | harleypig | goozbach: yeah |
| 21:23.44 | mheath | Only two guys got it then, though |
| 21:23.51 | mheath | I managed to put a stop to a third |
| 21:23.54 | goozbach | I just realized who mheath reminds me of |
| 21:24.01 | goozbach | R.C. Collins |
| 21:24.03 | harleypig | Hendrie? |
| 21:24.06 | harleypig | :D |
| 21:24.26 | obfuscated | ~google test |
| 21:24.27 | dataw0lf | you know |
| 21:24.32 | dataw0lf | I was thinking more along the lines of cheers |
| 21:24.38 | dataw0lf | cliff clavin |
| 21:24.56 | obfuscated | that doesn't work for some reason on my v. of blootbot |
| 21:24.56 | harleypig | mheath: we like to claim we're not really this way irl as opposed to on irc, but I've found that most people really are the same, if a little more loose on irc. |
| 21:25.24 | harleypig | BOOT TO THE HEAD! |
| 21:25.32 | harleypig | I haven't heard this one in forever |
| 21:25.33 | harleypig | ! |
| 21:25.36 | goozbach | "I'm wanna go to the Iraq. and kill me a raghead!" |
| 21:25.49 | dataw0lf | heh |
| 21:26.23 | mheath | Its actually kinda odd, though, how many people do mistake me for being military |
| 21:26.26 | dataw0lf | there's always the kids at every party who find out you were special ops in Iraq and Afghanistan |
| 21:26.28 | dataw0lf | they'll actually go out of their way to come up to you |
| 21:26.32 | dataw0lf | and let you know they WOULD HAVE served |
| 21:26.37 | dataw0lf | but their back was screwed up |
| 21:26.39 | dataw0lf | or their knees |
| 21:26.48 | mheath | Like, Navy personal who think I'm a sailor despite the fact that I've got like 3 patches on my uniform that show I'm not |
| 21:26.53 | goozbach | life imatates phil (tm) |
| 21:27.03 | dataw0lf | mheath: Too bad you're not. |
| 21:27.09 | dataw0lf | Cliff |
| 21:27.15 | mheath | dataw0lf, Too bad? I don't want to be a damn sailor. |
| 21:27.17 | mheath | erm |
| 21:27.19 | mheath | pardon my language |
| 21:27.22 | dataw0lf | "It's a little known fact that cows were domesticated in Mesopotamia and were also used in China as guard animals for the forbidden city." - Cliff Clavin |
| 21:27.23 | harleypig | dataw0lf: My mom has been telling servicemen thanks whenever she sees them. |
| 21:27.28 | dataw0lf | I can totally see you saying that mheath |
| 21:27.38 | dataw0lf | harleypig: right after 9/11 the support was awesome. |
| 21:27.42 | dataw0lf | it's kinda slackened off though. |
| 21:27.57 | dataw0lf | I was stationed in Germany and after we invaded Iraq there was no point on going out on the economy. |
| 21:28.05 | dataw0lf | you had to watch your six everywhere you went. |
| 21:28.18 | mheath | harleypig, your right....whenever I'm out in my uniform, I'll get random people coming up to me and telling me 'thanks for serving my country' |
| 21:28.38 | mheath | again, its kinda funny, as theres like 3 patches on my uniforms that show specifically that I'm not in the military |
| 21:29.24 | goozbach | and yeah, everybody knows those three patches mean just that |
| 21:29.35 | dataw0lf | you know |
| 21:29.40 | dataw0lf | when I see ROTC kids in their uniforms |
| 21:29.45 | dataw0lf | it makes me want to go nuts |
| 21:29.53 | dataw0lf | they come and visit real units during the summer |
| 21:29.58 | dataw0lf | talk about puds |
| 21:30.14 | mheath | I'm dreading ROTC kids actually |
| 21:30.27 | obfuscated | hey - don't diss ROTC. my grandpa started that program at BYU |
| 21:30.30 | mheath | we're providing a color guard at the rededication of the USS Harder memorial in a week |
| 21:30.37 | dataw0lf | you are a ROTC kid |
| 21:30.49 | obfuscated | if it's not BYU, then go ahead and diss |
| 21:30.59 | dataw0lf | ROTC kid is a term that encompasses anyone who isn't really in the military but wears a uniform |
| 21:31.07 | dataw0lf | I don't really care if you went to a program specifically called ROTC or not |
| 21:31.30 | mheath | Considering how inexperienced our group is at color guard, I know the JROTC group is going to make some stupid comments. |
| 21:31.38 | obfuscated | so by that meaning, Boy Scouts would be ROTC kids? |
| 21:31.59 | elg | don't be silly, he meant a military uniform |
| 21:32.02 | dataw0lf | I mean pretend military uniforms |
| 21:32.03 | goozbach | or the hot-dog on a stick guys |
| 21:32.13 | obfuscated | lol |
| 21:32.19 | elg | nurses, I think, would count too |
| 21:32.21 | harleypig | hot-dog on a stick? |
| 21:32.26 | goozbach | it LOOKS military |
| 21:32.29 | mheath | I really don't care, to be honest. |
| 21:32.29 | elg | baseball |
| 21:32.34 | dataw0lf | race car drivers |
| 21:32.38 | mheath | I'll tell you right now, this group I'm involved with pisses me off |
| 21:32.44 | dataw0lf | mheath: noone cares. |
| 21:32.51 | dataw0lf | go back to playing jarhead. |
| 21:33.04 | harleypig | ouch |
| 21:33.11 | mheath | It sucks, the structur sucks, and the leaders are a bunch of worthless soccer moms who sit and gossip instead of doing anything with us |
| 21:33.24 | goozbach | http://www.hotdogonastick.com/frames.html |
| 21:33.25 | brac | [HDOS Enterprises, An Employee Owned Company] |
| 21:33.26 | mheath | But it has gotten me an advanced rank, and given me some good experience |
| 21:33.41 | mheath | and thats all I really care about. |
| 21:33.47 | elg | ha. employee owned |
| 21:33.48 | goozbach | I'm glad |
| 21:33.51 | obfuscated | dataw0lf: at least it teaches them respect for the military |
| 21:33.59 | goozbach | flash warning |
| 21:34.00 | dataw0lf | it doesn't teach them anything. |
| 21:34.08 | dataw0lf | in fact, it teaches them less respect for the military |
| 21:34.16 | dataw0lf | look at how mheath talks from his high up perch |
| 21:34.23 | dataw0lf | it lessens the value of the military to them |
| 21:34.24 | obfuscated | so you think fewer people join the miliatary because of ROTC? |
| 21:34.27 | dataw0lf | and the honor it is to serve |
| 21:34.31 | mheath | Huh? |
| 21:34.35 | dataw0lf | obfuscated: I wish. |
| 21:34.47 | mheath | lmao, dataw0lf..... |
| 21:34.48 | dataw0lf | all the kids I knew who went through ROTC before the military had the exact same attitude as mheath. |
| 21:34.55 | dataw0lf | well, fairly similar. |
| 21:35.33 | dataw0lf | and, if memory serves, I believe that the majority of the eight guys who washed out during my BASIC were ROTC. |
| 21:35.57 | dataw0lf | I'm pretty sure there was a running joke about it, but I'm not positive. Too much training has rotted my brain. |
| 21:36.01 | mheath | It has taught me that a retirement ceremony ranks as one of the most touching things I have ever experienced in my life. It has taught me to respect superior people even when they really, *REALLY* piss me off. |
| 21:36.03 | sjansen | vontrapp: the link in your blog is giving file not found |
| 21:36.16 | mheath | It has taught me the basics of drill and ceremony. It has taught me to wear my uniform with pride, and how to take care of it. |
| 21:36.23 | dataw0lf | we'll see mheath. |
| 21:36.36 | emcnabb | and it has given you too much to talk about on #utah! |
| 21:36.39 | dataw0lf | I'm going to give you one piece of advice before I leave though: just leave the attitude at home. |
| 21:36.42 | mheath | It has taught me, even, the basics of field operations, including how to write and execute an operations order. |
| 21:36.45 | dataw0lf | for your own sake. |
| 21:36.50 | dataw0lf | ok |
| 21:36.56 | dataw0lf | you don't know the basics of field operations |
| 21:37.06 | dataw0lf | but whatever |
| 21:37.18 | dataw0lf | I really would pay to see the look on your face when that first bullet whizzes by your head. |
| 21:37.20 | obfuscated | what percent of military come from ROTC out of curiosity? |
| 21:37.23 | dataw0lf | since you're going to be an FRO. |
| 21:37.27 | dataw0lf | obfuscated: small percentage. |
| 21:37.32 | dataw0lf | 10-20% |
| 21:37.36 | dataw0lf | at the highest |
| 21:37.37 | *** join/#utah Lone_Wanderer (n=chatzill@c-71-199-35-158.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 21:37.40 | tensai | dataw0lf: if I watched saving private ryan would that make me a soldier? |
| 21:37.47 | dataw0lf | tensai: yes, General Tensai |
| 21:37.48 | emcnabb | tensai: a general |
| 21:37.49 | obfuscated | dataw0lf: could the military afford to be without it you think? |
| 21:37.57 | dataw0lf | obfuscated: Definitely. |
| 21:38.10 | obfuscated | hmmm...never heard that standpoint before |
| 21:38.16 | obfuscated | interesting |
| 21:38.19 | dataw0lf | if we're talking officer side, I'd say that the worst officers are by far ROTC kids |
| 21:38.23 | dataw0lf | west points guys are good |
| 21:38.29 | dataw0lf | previously enlisted, the best |
| 21:38.31 | obfuscated | do you think it may have been different back in say, Vietnam days? |
| 21:38.33 | emcnabb | I played Risk last night; I'm coming up on general myself |
| 21:38.35 | dataw0lf | check out all the powerful general's careers |
| 21:38.37 | dataw0lf | they all were enlisted |
| 21:38.44 | dataw0lf | obfuscated: Can't say. No experience with that. |
| 21:38.51 | Lone_Wanderer | Does anyone know if it's possible, at least in theory, to create an infinite state machine? |
| 21:38.52 | mheath | dataw0lf, indeed. |
| 21:38.55 | mheath | My dad was enlisted |
| 21:39.03 | mheath | retired as O-6 |
| 21:39.04 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: ask mheath. |
| 21:39.09 | dataw0lf | he'll build one for you under fire. |
| 21:39.14 | Hhhhhh | Lone_Wanderer, no, by definition the set of states has to be finite |
| 21:39.19 | dataw0lf | because he has friends who know how to do it, of course. |
| 21:39.25 | emcnabb | Hhhhhh: give me 50 pushups! |
| 21:39.36 | mheath | dataw0lf, I didn't say that I knew how to react to fire, you moron. I've never been under fire |
| 21:39.40 | obfuscated | dataw0lf: just curious - my grandfather, who was a Colonel in the AF started the ROTC at BYU and he has great respect for it, but that was back in Vietnam/Korea days |
| 21:39.49 | dataw0lf | mheath: don't call me a moron. |
| 21:39.50 | Hhhhhh | j/k |
| 21:40.03 | dataw0lf | obfuscated: I'm sure there are some significant differences. |
| 21:40.14 | dataw0lf | but there are some differences between just general training |
| 21:40.16 | levi | My dad ended up a Lt. Colonel in the Army, and started with ROTC, IIRC. |
| 21:40.22 | Lone_Wanderer | Umm. By definition, a finite state machine would have to have a finite number of states... but I'm asking about an infinite state machine. |
| 21:40.27 | obfuscated | dataw0lf: I can see that |
| 21:40.28 | levi | He also went to jump school, though. |
| 21:40.30 | dataw0lf | your basic training these days, whether it be Marines, Army, whatever, is pretty easy. |
| 21:40.50 | dataw0lf | it's better if you get an all male training program, like I had, but still, it's problematic how easy it is. |
| 21:40.50 | tensai | the few guys I've known that were in ROTC were decent. I didn't know them in that setting though, and if they'd been morons I don't think I would have known them. |
| 21:41.19 | dataw0lf | I had to escort National Guard guys who only had basic training under their belt and my squad lost two guys because they didn't know how to operate a m249 effectively. |
| 21:41.30 | dataw0lf | so I only really put stock into the extended training |
| 21:41.41 | dataw0lf | jump school, air assault school, ranger school, pathfinder school, etc |
| 21:41.53 | dataw0lf | and obviously experience. |
| 21:42.34 | mheath | dataw0lf, Army does co-ed basic? |
| 21:42.36 | tensai | dataw0lf: on the m249 the pointy end goes at the bad guys, right? |
| 21:42.42 | dataw0lf | mheath: Yes. |
| 21:42.48 | mheath | Ah, didn't know that |
| 21:42.51 | dataw0lf | tensai: m249 is the SAW. |
| 21:43.01 | Lone_Wanderer | He said "effectively", which I'm assuming is different from just knowing how to use it period. |
| 21:43.05 | dataw0lf | mheath: there are three forts that do all male basic, and the rest is coed |
| 21:43.11 | dataw0lf | Ft Sill, Ft Benning, and Ft. Knox |
| 21:43.29 | dataw0lf | Sill = artillery, Benning = infantry, Knox = armor and cavalry |
| 21:43.33 | dataw0lf | all the combat arms |
| 21:44.02 | *** join/#utah spr (n=spr@c-67-169-251-185.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 21:44.23 | dataw0lf | mheath: see, I didn't have to google that. |
| 21:44.31 | dataw0lf | I knew that because, you know, I'm a soldier. |
| 21:44.39 | dataw0lf | or an ex soldier. |
| 21:44.48 | mheath | OK, so what your saying is..... |
| 21:44.58 | mheath | Me being excited and nervous about basic is worthless, because I'm going to fail |
| 21:45.07 | dataw0lf | with the attitude you have, yup. |
| 21:45.11 | *** join/#utah amcnabb (n=amcnabb@128.187.129.120) |
| 21:45.12 | mheath | Me reading stories and collecting information about basic is worthless, because its all wrong, will do me no good, and I'm going to fail. |
| 21:45.14 | dataw0lf | it's not about being excited nor nervous |
| 21:45.29 | dataw0lf | it's about you acting like you have some sort of relevant experience. |
| 21:45.35 | dataw0lf | when, a day into boot camp, you'll realize you don't. |
| 21:45.42 | dataw0lf | D&C training? give me a break. |
| 21:45.43 | mheath | Lone_Wanderer, He's telling me that everything I know about the military is worthless because I had to research it and/or gained it through relation with a ROTC-like organization |
| 21:45.51 | dataw0lf | everyone goes through D&C drills through their smart book before they enter. |
| 21:46.01 | elg | Lone_Wanderer: was it you what wanted to hear about state machines? |
| 21:46.07 | Lone_Wanderer | elg: yes |
| 21:46.17 | elg | you want to know if there's an infinite state machine |
| 21:46.28 | Lone_Wanderer | if it's theoretically possible to build one |
| 21:46.34 | elg | well, not to build one |
| 21:46.36 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: Maybe because he's a disrespectful little punk and I'm trying to get him to realize that he needs to realize that before he gets in. |
| 21:46.40 | dataw0lf | or he's going to be eaten alive. |
| 21:46.48 | elg | because "build" implies creating all the infinte states |
| 21:46.48 | levi | You can't build infinite things. :) |
| 21:47.02 | Lone_Wanderer | So he's bruised your ego and you need to yell at him a bit to feel better? |
| 21:47.08 | dataw0lf | bruised my ego? |
| 21:47.17 | dataw0lf | No, he's disrespected the military. |
| 21:47.17 | Lone_Wanderer | Well, that's kind of what it sounds like. |
| 21:47.18 | elg | but you can have a turing machine, which has infinite storage |
| 21:47.29 | dataw0lf | My ego is fine. |
| 21:47.31 | Lone_Wanderer | I mean, I'm just going off of what I've heard so far. |
| 21:47.37 | dataw0lf | which is obviously little. |
| 21:47.41 | mheath | dataw0lf, how am I disrespecting the military? |
| 21:47.47 | Lone_Wanderer | Well, you seem upset. |
| 21:47.50 | dataw0lf | I am. |
| 21:47.56 | Lone_Wanderer | Why? |
| 21:48.01 | dataw0lf | No, he's disrespected the military. |
| 21:48.09 | dataw0lf | ^^ did you get ? |
| 21:48.13 | elg | Lone_Wanderer: so what do you want with the infinte state machine? just curious? |
| 21:48.25 | Lone_Wanderer | And you're upset because he disrespected the military. |
| 21:48.28 | dataw0lf | that's correct. |
| 21:48.41 | Lone_Wanderer | elg: just curious whether it's possible in theory is all. and if not, why it's not. |
| 21:48.54 | Lone_Wanderer | Why does someone disrespecting the military upset you? |
| 21:48.57 | elg | it's certainly possible to think of one |
| 21:49.03 | elg | just not exactly possible to build one |
| 21:49.19 | mheath | And I still fail to see how I'm disrespecting the military. Please explain, dataw0lf, as I'd like to correct this. |
| 21:49.26 | tensai | couldn't the machine build new states as it needed them, effectively becoming infinite? |
| 21:49.45 | tensai | kind of like Disney and copyright... |
| 21:49.46 | elg | it's still finite, unless it runs for infinite time |
| 21:49.53 | emcnabb | mheath: my only gripe is you act like a hero even though you haven't done anything yet |
| 21:49.58 | emcnabb | I respect what you're GOING to do |
| 21:50.05 | Lone_Wanderer | tensai: how would it do that? when you got to the last state it could build with the materials it has, and then need one more, how's it going to make another one? |
| 21:50.05 | dataw0lf | mheath: Because of you act like you've done it all before. |
| 21:50.41 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: Because I served and lost two of my best friends in Iraq. And the military isn't something to take lightly. Or assume you know it all before you've even experienced it. |
| 21:50.55 | mheath | I appologize if I gave that impression. I have done nothing and experienced very little. |
| 21:50.58 | Lone_Wanderer | You could say "Just build it so that it can acquire new materials and fashion them into state-creating building blocks" but then what happens when it's taken up all the matter in the unverse and still needs one more state? |
| 21:51.01 | harleypig | dataw0lf: It's like a virgin talking about sex. |
| 21:51.11 | dataw0lf | harleypig: Exactly. Great metaphor. |
| 21:51.30 | levi | tensai: I think adding new states while it's running violates the definition of a state machine. There are other automata for dealing with run-time change, IIRC. |
| 21:51.37 | Lone_Wanderer | dataw0lf: I'm sorry that you lost two friends in Iraq, but I fail to see how your loss justifies yelling at someone who clearly doesn't know what they're talking about. |
| 21:51.42 | tensai | Lone_Wanderer: is anything infinite possible then? |
| 21:51.42 | emcnabb | harleypig: a virgin acting liek a street whore |
| 21:51.51 | Lone_Wanderer | Well, I don't know. That's why I'm asking. |
| 21:52.00 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: That's exactly why I'm yelling at him. Because he doesn't know what he's talking about. And he's acting like he does. |
| 21:52.20 | levi | You can't build infinite things. |
| 21:52.22 | elg | well, think of it, we can't use every atom in the universe infinite times over to build stuff, so the only access to infinity we have is time |
| 21:52.34 | elg | and that is a limited access too. :) |
| 21:52.38 | dataw0lf | build implies completion |
| 21:52.39 | Lone_Wanderer | Maybe it's possible to create something that, while finite in space, has an infinite number of possible configurations. Or maybe quantum physics will allow us an infinite number of states with a finite number of things. |
| 21:52.41 | dataw0lf | which is impossible |
| 21:52.53 | harleypig | emcnabb: :] I haven't seen that. I see a self-sure individual who doesn't understand why he's insulting people. |
| 21:52.54 | Lone_Wanderer | dataw0lf: I must have missed that part of the conversation. |
| 21:52.56 | mheath | again, I'm sorry if I have you that impression, dataw0lf. My appologies. |
| 21:53.20 | tensai | levi: yeah, that kind of occurred to me. in effect the state machine I propose is really the state machine building machine, and not the resultant machine |
| 21:53.39 | mheath | The fact that I have experienced next to nothing with the military is one of my primary motivations for joining the military. |
| 21:53.40 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: Yes, you did. |
| 21:53.43 | elg | in a way, a turing machine is like that |
| 21:53.48 | emcnabb | Sal & Carvao and shares the parking lot with my hotel... it's dinner time |
| 21:53.54 | mheath | I want to be among the few and the proud. |
| 21:53.55 | elg | a turing machine could certainly entertain infinite configurations |
| 21:53.58 | elg | over time |
| 21:54.06 | elg | infinite time, that is. |
| 21:54.06 | mheath | I want to be pressed into experiencing things I never have and never would without the USMC. |
| 21:54.09 | Lone_Wanderer | But a turing machine is just a mind experiment. |
| 21:54.12 | elg | what fun infinity is! |
| 21:54.15 | levi | tensai: While it's possible to conceive of an infinite state machine in the way that you can conceive of the set of natural numbers, you can't actually /do/ anything with an infinite state machine. |
| 21:54.37 | tensai | infinity makes me dizzy |
| 21:54.39 | levi | Except... |
| 21:54.45 | dataw0lf | levi: exactly. |
| 21:54.50 | Lone_Wanderer | I'm talking about an actual, physical object. |
| 21:54.54 | tensai | oh, no. don't start with "except" |
| 21:54.56 | levi | I suppose you might encode state transition rules from one infinite set to another algebraically. |
| 21:55.17 | Lone_Wanderer | But you still need your original infinite state machine to do that. |
| 21:55.19 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: it's not practical. |
| 21:55.24 | elg | sigh. I'd love to discuss infinities, but I have to go learn stuff |
| 21:55.31 | Lone_Wanderer | Well, I don't care about practical, I just care about possible in theory. |
| 21:55.33 | mheath | dataw0lf, I have nothing but extreme respect for those in the military. I want you to know that I recognize the fact that I am not in the military. I am not a Marine, and will not be a Marine until September. |
| 21:55.58 | mheath | dataw0lf, And I appologize for trying to give the impression that any of my trainings were relevant to anything or useful in anything. I was mistaken. I appologize. |
| 21:56.06 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: No, it's a static state machine, it just has an infinite number of states and it's described algebraically rather than with explicit enumerated states. |
| 21:56.24 | *** join/#utah robdor (n=rob@208.187.196.58) |
| 21:56.26 | Lone_Wanderer | what's a static state machine? |
| 21:57.00 | sjansen | ~punish emcnabb |
| 21:57.01 | ibot | ACTION forces emcnabb to install and use Windows |
| 21:57.02 | harleypig | It's a government device for mildly shocking people |
| 21:57.08 | emcnabb | ~lart sjansen |
| 21:57.08 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: A real state machine, as opposed to that proposed so-called state machine that would extend itself. |
| 21:58.02 | dataw0lf | I'm going to go watch Cube. |
| 21:58.05 | Lone_Wanderer | nothing :( |
| 21:58.06 | levi | I made the term 'static state machine' up, so it may not correspond to anything in wikipedia. |
| 21:58.11 | Lone_Wanderer | ok |
| 21:58.16 | Lone_Wanderer | is Cube a movie? |
| 21:58.21 | dataw0lf | yea |
| 21:58.36 | Lone_Wanderer | Thinking of renting one tonight. |
| 21:58.40 | dataw0lf | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cube_(movie) |
| 21:58.43 | dataw0lf | I think you'd dig Cube |
| 21:58.47 | Lone_Wanderer | cool |
| 21:59.07 | dataw0lf | it's pretty cool |
| 21:59.16 | Lone_Wanderer | "Fear Paranoia Suspicion Desperation". Yeah, sounds like my kinda thing. |
| 21:59.18 | dataw0lf | dang, what's the indie movie that came out recently about time travel? |
| 21:59.26 | Lone_Wanderer | don't know |
| 21:59.27 | levi | Anyway, consider the machine whose states are numbered by the positive integers. A state x transitions on input y to the state numbered by (x + y). |
| 21:59.41 | Lone_Wanderer | ok |
| 22:00.00 | levi | I believe that's the definition of an infinite state machine. |
| 22:00.07 | mheath | dataw0lf, And, furthermore, if you have any suggestions I would be happy to hear them. |
| 22:00.18 | dataw0lf | oh, 'Primer' |
| 22:00.19 | levi | (a specific infinite state machine, not the definition of the concept, of course) |
| 22:00.22 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: Watch Primer too |
| 22:00.24 | dataw0lf | awe |
| 22:00.24 | dataw0lf | some |
| 22:00.25 | Lone_Wanderer | ok |
| 22:00.26 | dataw0lf | movie |
| 22:00.32 | dataw0lf | anyone who hasn't seen Primer should watch it |
| 22:00.59 | dataw0lf | it won the Grand Jury prize at 2004 Sundance, I think |
| 22:01.16 | Hhhhhh | Sundance, meh |
| 22:01.17 | dataw0lf | made for 7k, but best movie on time travel ever |
| 22:01.26 | dataw0lf | except for maybe Donnie Darko |
| 22:01.30 | Lone_Wanderer | Heh. Aaron, Abe, Robert and Philip - AARP? |
| 22:01.47 | levi | Actually, you need a little more information to formally specify a state machine, but that ought to give you the idea. |
| 22:01.55 | levi | Mmm, Donnie Darko. |
| 22:02.05 | Lone_Wanderer | That movie made me confused. |
| 22:02.09 | Lone_Wanderer | Maybe I should watch it again. |
| 22:02.10 | dataw0lf | Donnie Darko? |
| 22:02.12 | dataw0lf | heh |
| 22:02.15 | dataw0lf | probably shouldn't watch Primer |
| 22:02.18 | Lone_Wanderer | Well, what I didn't understand was |
| 22:02.21 | dataw0lf | Primer, you're guaranteed to have to watch it twice |
| 22:02.23 | Lone_Wanderer | did he choose, at the end, to die? |
| 22:02.31 | dataw0lf | well, that's in contention |
| 22:02.33 | dataw0lf | he didn't HAVE to die |
| 22:02.39 | Lone_Wanderer | but if he lived |
| 22:02.45 | Lone_Wanderer | then all those other people die |
| 22:02.55 | Lone_Wanderer | innit? |
| 22:03.06 | dataw0lf | nope |
| 22:03.28 | dataw0lf | watch the movie |
| 22:03.32 | dataw0lf | Frank his honking his horn at Donnie |
| 22:03.33 | Lone_Wanderer | I have, once. |
| 22:03.36 | dataw0lf | trying to get him out of bed |
| 22:03.39 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh |
| 22:03.47 | dataw0lf | so he either didn't hear or didn't listen |
| 22:03.53 | Lone_Wanderer | *nods* |
| 22:04.11 | Lone_Wanderer | I thought it was going to end like a story I read called... |
| 22:04.20 | Lone_Wanderer | I knew the word just a second ago but whenever I try to type it I forget it. |
| 22:04.26 | Lone_Wanderer | The snake that swallows its own tail. |
| 22:04.50 | Lone_Wanderer | Where the time machine ends up creating an infinite loop, and the main character remembers from one loop to the next. |
| 22:05.05 | levi | I liked Dark City. |
| 22:05.23 | vontrapp | bill and ted |
| 22:05.28 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: Ouroboros? |
| 22:05.35 | Lone_Wanderer | yes, thank you |
| 22:05.54 | Lone_Wanderer | he has the option, on every loop, of explaining to everyone else what's going on and ending it |
| 22:06.05 | dataw0lf | that's faintly similar to Primer |
| 22:06.15 | Lone_Wanderer | but part of the loop involves him meeting and falling in love with a beautiful woman |
| 22:06.17 | Lone_Wanderer | every time |
| 22:06.25 | dataw0lf | levi: let me know how you liked |
| 22:06.26 | dataw0lf | it |
| 22:06.35 | dataw0lf | and tell me how many times you had to watch it to get it :) |
| 22:07.31 | Lone_Wanderer | another was called A Very Good Year, by Zelazny. A man invents time travel and decides to relive the same year forever until he dies. He keeps detailed notes so he never runs into himself, except on New Year's Eve, when he always goes to the same restaurant. |
| 22:08.09 | Lone_Wanderer | So the host seats 50 different versions of the same couple, all one year apart in age. |
| 22:08.11 | dataw0lf | again, like Primer :) |
| 22:08.25 | Lone_Wanderer | They totally ripped off Zelazny, man!!!!!one |
| 22:09.10 | Lone_Wanderer | Oh man. There's way too much math for me to learn all of it. |
| 22:10.21 | Lone_Wanderer | Have you seen Pi? |
| 22:10.24 | Lone_Wanderer | Old black and white. |
| 22:11.11 | dataw0lf | well, Pi isn't old, it was just filmed that way. |
| 22:11.15 | dataw0lf | but yea, Pi rocks. |
| 22:11.30 | dataw0lf | Aronofsky is a genius |
| 22:13.41 | sjansen | https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=186308 <-- This bug is driving me crazy! |
| 22:14.06 | findlay | ~bug sjansen |
| 22:14.36 | Lone_Wanderer | cool |
| 22:14.49 | Lone_Wanderer | my ex girlfriend rented it for me |
| 22:15.10 | dataw0lf | seen Requiem for a Dream (Aronofsky too) |
| 22:15.13 | dataw0lf | ? |
| 22:15.18 | Lone_Wanderer | no but I've heard of it |
| 22:15.35 | dataw0lf | overwhelming movie. |
| 22:27.00 | levi | I haven't seen Requiem for a Dream, but I like the soundtrack. |
| 22:31.26 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=fungus@firebat.aros.net) |
| 22:32.24 | *** part/#utah herlo (n=csavage@198.252.209.251) |
| 22:34.39 | harleypig | Anyone seen Powder? |
| 22:36.50 | harleypig | I'm trying to find movies that'll be good for a 12 year old to see, besides the action flicks (while fun, they're empty-headed). |
| 22:37.09 | harleypig | Donnie Darko is probably a little over a 12 year old's head, maybe. |
| 22:39.56 | levi | I need watch Brazil and Dark City again. Probably both over a 12 year old's head. |
| 22:39.58 | harleypig | Yeah, both of those are definitely over a 12 year olds head ... too ... dark. |
| 22:40.10 | harleypig | I'm thinking that Powder might be a good one though. |
| 22:40.30 | harleypig | maybe Always too, maybe ... |
| 22:40.37 | Lone_Wanderer | Always was a good one. |
| 22:40.45 | Lone_Wanderer | About the fire pilot guy right? |
| 22:40.51 | RyanE | I loved Brazil... haven't seen that one in years. |
| 22:40.53 | harleypig | yeah |
| 22:40.58 | Lone_Wanderer | yeah, that was fantastic |
| 22:41.13 | RyanE | Always reminds me of that Mel Gibson frozen pilot movie. |
| 22:41.21 | RyanE | or, actually, vice-versa |
| 22:41.22 | harleypig | Forever Young? |
| 22:41.26 | RyanE | yeah |
| 22:41.28 | Lone_Wanderer | "I've seen the signs! No U-turns, no crossing, no right turn on red!" |
| 22:41.53 | harleypig | Forever Young is ok, but it doesn't deal at all with what Always does. |
| 22:42.38 | RyanE | naw, just *very* superficially similar |
| 22:42.52 | mrpull- | ForeverYoung-- |
| 22:43.05 | mrpull- | YoungFrankenstein++ |
| 22:43.44 | RyanE | What was the name on this one? "Abby." Abby what? "Abby Normal." |
| 22:43.47 | harleypig | Blazing Saddles ... I know it's a little older, but I saw it when I was 12 ... |
| 22:44.01 | harleypig | I mean, it's for a little older audience |
| 22:44.20 | RyanE | I saw "Attack of the Tomatoes" at that age, but I don't recommend it. |
| 22:44.27 | RyanE | Killer Tomatoes, that is. |
| 22:44.28 | harleypig | OTOH, he *loves* Spaceballs. |
| 22:44.51 | harleypig | OMG, Leanord Nimoy singing ... I haven't heard this one. |
| 22:48.30 | levi | Hmm, Donnie Darko was set in the year during which I was 12. |
| 22:49.24 | levi | Willow was released when I was 12. |
| 22:49.34 | levi | And Who Framed Roger Rabbit. |
| 22:49.47 | findlay | I was 12 once and something probably happened then |
| 22:52.52 | RyanE | Empire Strikes Back was released when I was 12. |
| 22:54.22 | harleypig | star wars was released when I was 12 |
| 22:54.31 | obfuscated | First Star wars came out when I was born |
| 22:55.14 | obfuscated | ESB I think was the first VHS I ever saw |
| 22:55.40 | harleypig | Abar, the First Black Superman came out when I was 12. |
| 22:55.46 | harleypig | and ABBA: The Movie. |
| 22:55.53 | RyanE | harleypig: who knew you were older than I was... Wow. |
| 22:56.26 | harleypig | :> |
| 22:57.43 | findlay | the next time your apartment complex asks you why you want a static ip, tell them it's your own dang business |
| 22:57.56 | *** join/#utah synic (n=synic@pdpc/supporter/student/synic) |
| 22:58.02 | RyanE | And one other literary masterpiece came out when I was 12: "Airplane!" |
| 22:58.05 | harleypig | why would you apt complex need to know? |
| 22:58.25 | mrpull- | RyanE: Surely you cant be serious |
| 22:58.32 | RyanE | obviously not. |
| 22:58.44 | harleypig | And don't call him Shirley. |
| 22:59.01 | mrpull- | --Rim shot-- |
| 22:59.39 | findlay | harleypig: because they're dumb and think I'm a drone wind0z3 luz3r |
| 23:00.00 | RyanE | The white zone is for immediate loading and unloading of passengers only. There is no stopping in a red zone. |
| 23:00.15 | harleypig | findlay: even if you were a winblows user, why would they care? |
| 23:00.36 | harleypig | o o o o ... Buckaroo Bonzai ... |
| 23:00.46 | findlay | harleypig: I guess they're worried about some mythical kind of danger I'm putting their network into |
| 23:00.49 | harleypig | I think my 12 year old would get that. |
| 23:01.07 | harleypig | findlay: a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. |
| 23:01.17 | harleypig | "Lithium is no longer available on credit" |
| 23:01.47 | findlay | harleypig: the apartment guy said he could set up my computer up for the static address |
| 23:01.53 | findlay | I'd like to see him try |
| 23:01.57 | findlay | (-: |
| 23:02.33 | harleypig | :D |
| 23:03.06 | *** join/#utah beandog (n=sdibb@64.50.56.200) |
| 23:03.27 | *** join/#utah synic (n=synic@pdpc/supporter/student/synic) |
| 23:08.37 | *** join/#utah brando1 (n=brandon@blurry.skewedvision.com) |
| 23:09.02 | brando1 | anyone know how well cisco 675 dsl modems work with qwest? .. or should one stick to 678's? |
| 23:17.43 | mheath | heh, wow....I just realized that most of the security measures included in credit cards are worthless |
| 23:18.03 | findlay | um, yeah |
| 23:18.06 | mheath | I don't know why, but the signature on my card rubbed off rather quickly, so it looked like the card was never signed. No one cared. |
| 23:18.06 | findlay | of course |
| 23:18.10 | mheath | On top of that |
| 23:18.11 | findlay | (: |
| 23:18.15 | mheath | Eventually the signature strip wore off |
| 23:18.24 | mheath | And under neath it, it says "VOID VOID VOID" etc |
| 23:18.38 | mheath | So now I have a debit card with no signature that says VOID all over it, and people still take it. |
| 23:18.53 | findlay | harleypig: maybe I should have told them that I was setting up a terrorist website |
| 23:19.16 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp40.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 23:19.40 | harleypig | findlay: naw ... someone would have called DHS and you'd have had the joy of sitting in a small room surrounded by men with guns. |
| 23:19.54 | harleypig | rebooting to play counter-strike ... :> |
| 23:20.02 | *** join/#utah SpecialZ (n=mse@128.187.138.147) |
| 23:33.38 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@hfugal.NMSU.Edu) |
| 23:37.07 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@38.119.178.10) |
| 23:37.17 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@hfugal.NMSU.Edu) |
| 23:57.04 | *** join/#utah amcnabb (n=amcnabb@128.187.129.120) |
| 23:58.12 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
