| 00:01.04 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 00:01.18 | maquis | -lart utah weather |
| 00:05.52 | findlay | > uproxy.gmail.com[66.249.92.205]: 501 Bad address syntax |
| 00:05.52 | elg | what quote, "download gaim" |
| 00:05.57 | findlay | what does that mean? |
| 00:06.07 | elg | it means the address syntax is bad |
| 00:06.22 | findlay | justin@67.137.24.114 |
| 00:06.27 | findlay | is that a bad address? |
| 00:06.43 | elg | apparently to gmail it is |
| 00:06.59 | findlay | the error is coming from my postfix server |
| 00:07.12 | elg | ah then it's you |
| 00:07.12 | findlay | and I want to fix it (: |
| 00:07.33 | elg | look for why it might be rejecting addresses with only ip address domains |
| 00:08.39 | findlay | can you think of any clues? |
| 00:09.04 | elg | main.cf |
| 00:09.14 | findlay | (: |
| 00:09.33 | findlay | I've already spent about 5 hours on it so far without finding anything |
| 00:10.07 | findlay | or rather, going through all of postfix's relavant options and finding that they have nothing to do with it |
| 00:10.44 | findlay | I also spent some time going through the RFC, can't remember which |
| 00:14.35 | maquis | w00t! |
| 00:14.53 | maquis | i got an email today from someone who happened upon my blog while trying to figure out why vim took forever to load in screen |
| 00:15.07 | maquis | he has a funny sig, too |
| 00:15.12 | maquis | Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad. |
| 00:26.20 | Hhhhh | where's your blog, maquis |
| 00:26.36 | maquis | Hhhhh: tuxgirl.com |
| 00:26.36 | Hhhhh | don't worry, I won't flame it |
| 00:27.52 | ScytheBlade1 | Anyone here run mediawiki? |
| 00:28.08 | maquis | Hhhhh: it's nothing too exciting, but oh well... ;) |
| 00:29.09 | Hhhhh | cool |
| 00:29.14 | Hhhhh | you use vim? |
| 00:29.36 | maquis | Hhhhh: yup |
| 00:30.08 | Hhhhh | I remember once (in CS312) you saw that I was using Visual Studio with a black background and you asked me how to do that |
| 00:30.22 | maquis | yeah... |
| 00:30.33 | Hhhhh | I used emacs for a while, but then I was done with it |
| 00:30.42 | Hhhhh | sometimes I use vim now |
| 00:30.55 | Hhhhh | in windows, hehe |
| 00:31.09 | maquis | that's gotta be weird |
| 00:31.12 | maquis | Hhhhh: question for you |
| 00:31.15 | Hhhhh | hehe, not really |
| 00:31.17 | Hhhhh | it's nicer |
| 00:31.18 | Hhhhh | sure |
| 00:31.20 | Hhhhh | nice* |
| 00:31.25 | maquis | do you know how to remap a keyboard in windows without having admin rights on the computer? |
| 00:31.25 | Hhhhh | what is it? |
| 00:31.31 | Hhhhh | hmm |
| 00:31.34 | maquis | all the things i found via google required admin |
| 00:31.40 | Hhhhh | I don't know |
| 00:31.53 | maquis | and we didn't get admin rights on our windoze box at work |
| 00:32.02 | maquis | (we got to be root on our linux box, though...) |
| 00:32.09 | Hhhhh | I usually have admin rights on all winXP boxes I use |
| 00:32.15 | maquis | yeah |
| 00:32.19 | Hhhhh | no admin rights? |
| 00:32.26 | Hhhhh | but root acces in linux? |
| 00:32.27 | Hhhhh | odd |
| 00:32.46 | maquis | well... they tracked the use of sudo in linux... but you had it... |
| 00:33.05 | maquis | they just logged it in case they had problems or something |
| 00:33.19 | maquis | but for the windoze boxen (laptops), they had them locked down... |
| 00:33.30 | Hhhhh | gotcha |
| 00:33.51 | Hhhhh | I'm sorry but I don't know much of rights in windows |
| 00:34.00 | maquis | i think part of it was that the company handled most of the administration for the windoze boxen, but the devs were in charge of handling most of the stuff with their dev desktop (the linux box) |
| 00:36.03 | Hhhhh | hmph |
| 00:36.10 | Hhhhh | I hate not having all rights to my dev box |
| 00:36.38 | maquis | yeah... i didn't mind not having all the rights to the laptop over the summer because i rarely ever used it |
| 00:37.01 | maquis | (used it for mail, mainly becaues i didn't bother to get mutt setup to play nicely with exchange) |
| 00:37.42 | maquis | but when i get back there, i'm going to actually have situations where i'll need to vpn in... and we can only do that from the windoze laptop... so, i'll be wanting my keyboard remapped more.. |
| 00:38.08 | maquis | maybe i'll talk to ops when i get back and explain and see if they can install a keyboard remapper for me :) |
| 00:50.40 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 00:53.05 | *** join/#utah RyanE (n=ryan@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 00:55.47 | QBFreak | ScytheBlade1: I run TWiki |
| 00:55.59 | ScytheBlade1 | QBFreak, well, you're no use to me then ;) |
| 00:56.26 | QBFreak | heh, I didn't know at what point you were at |
| 00:56.41 | QBFreak | if it was the planning stages or if you were too far gone :) |
| 00:56.51 | ScytheBlade1 | I need to modify mediawiki sources to include stuff at the bottom. |
| 00:57.12 | QBFreak | ah, see TWiki has these nice things called skins... |
| 00:57.18 | QBFreak | :) |
| 00:57.21 | ScytheBlade1 | As does mediawiki |
| 00:57.32 | ScytheBlade1 | Thing is, to do that, I need to modify every skin installed |
| 00:57.35 | ScytheBlade1 | and I don't want to do that |
| 00:58.41 | QBFreak | modify the default one you use and remove the others? |
| 00:59.11 | QBFreak | that ensures that your changes are used :) |
| 01:00.29 | QBFreak | CSI time, bbl |
| 01:17.17 | *** join/#utah amcnabb (n=amcnabb@c-67-169-251-185.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 01:24.20 | atoponce | findlay: ping |
| 01:24.28 | *** join/#utah RyanE_ (n=ryan@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 01:25.59 | findlay | atoponce: score |
| 01:26.31 | findlay | is there a way to toggle full headers in mutt? |
| 01:29.57 | findlay | I found it, it's 'h' |
| 01:30.05 | findlay | thanks for all the help, everyone |
| 01:30.17 | findlay | ~everyone++ |
| 01:47.32 | *** join/#utah TheDiff (n=TheDiff@64.161.56.239) |
| 01:52.54 | *** join/#utah RyanE (n=ryan@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
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| 02:20.45 | atoponce | sorry, my wife called |
| 02:21.26 | atoponce | findlay, you may already now this, but it took me a second |
| 02:21.43 | atoponce | my wife is your cousin keri |
| 02:23.44 | findlay | what? |
| 02:23.47 | findlay | no way |
| 02:23.55 | atoponce | odd, eh? |
| 02:24.05 | findlay | Keri Jackson? |
| 02:24.09 | atoponce | yup |
| 02:24.13 | findlay | cool |
| 02:24.22 | atoponce | small world, eh? |
| 02:24.25 | findlay | yeah |
| 02:24.48 | atoponce | i saw you on a plug picture, and thought "wait, i know that guy" |
| 02:25.31 | findlay | where? |
| 02:25.46 | atoponce | on Jayce^ blog |
| 02:28.45 | atoponce | http://halls.lug-nut.com/gallery/jayce/Plug/IMG_0067.JPG |
| 02:28.46 | tensai | findlay: if you want to send mail by ip address put it in brackets. justin@[67.137.24.114] |
| 02:28.47 | brac | [Viewing /gallery/jayce/Plug/IMG_0067.JPG at 640 x 480] |
| 02:29.03 | tensai | findlay: it's called ip literal, you may have to enable it |
| 02:30.36 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 02:30.54 | ScytheBlade1 | Who's that wearing the "Go away or I will replace you with a very small shell script" shirt? |
| 02:31.18 | spr | Newsome |
| 02:31.37 | spr | I think it was his farewell lunch |
| 02:31.42 | ScytheBlade1 | Ah |
| 02:31.45 | QBFreak | I was wondering what that said, I have the "10 types of people" shirt, looks a lot like it |
| 02:31.57 | ScytheBlade1 | He deserves points for wearing that shirt |
| 02:32.32 | ScytheBlade1 | A friend of mine has http://www.jinx.com/scripts/details.asp?affid=-1&productID=526 |
| 02:32.35 | brac | [J!NX - Children of the Cron T-Shirt - Gamer Geek Nerd Hacker Computer] |
| 02:32.55 | findlay | tensai: I figured, but gmail thinks user@[i.p.ad.dr] is illegal |
| 02:33.09 | findlay | so I'm forced against all reason into the evils of DNS |
| 02:33.30 | tensai | findlay: frankly it is rather 70s |
| 02:33.42 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@204.14.21.69) |
| 02:33.47 | findlay | I'm just too cheap to buy a domainname, basically |
| 02:33.48 | QBFreak | evil cron, was cleaning out my session temp folder |
| 02:34.07 | ScytheBlade1 | I just realized why I never even look up the *LUG meetings |
| 02:34.16 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm about half your ages and weights ;) |
| 02:34.41 | findlay | and your life will forever be inextricibly bonded to a random string of word characters once you get one |
| 02:34.41 | atoponce | ScytheBlade1: so what are you saying? we're all old and fat? :) |
| 02:34.48 | ScytheBlade1 | Don't get me wrong |
| 02:34.51 | ScytheBlade1 | It's in my future |
| 02:35.10 | ScytheBlade1 | And I'm not exactly thin myself ;) |
| 02:35.19 | ScytheBlade1 | But the old part? Yeah, I'll agree with that one ;) |
| 02:35.23 | findlay | farewell dinner, actually |
| 02:35.36 | tensai | findlay: is that worse than being tied to a random string of numbers? |
| 02:36.10 | findlay | I'm the guy with the way hip netBSD shirt |
| 02:36.39 | findlay | tensai: but I like my string of mumbers. I think it has good karma |
| 02:36.55 | ScytheBlade1 | I don't have any geek attire, actually |
| 02:37.23 | ScytheBlade1 | As in, I don't have *any* |
| 02:37.36 | ScytheBlade1 | I'd have to get myself some before I even consider attending anything ;) |
| 02:37.40 | atoponce | i want a number of shirts from thinkgeek |
| 02:37.41 | findlay | no plaid button shirts? |
| 02:37.46 | ScytheBlade1 | No, actually |
| 02:38.00 | ScytheBlade1 | I know, I know, blashpemy on my part |
| 02:38.09 | atoponce | i tried getting shirts for my lug, but the company i was dealing with was a joke |
| 02:38.12 | findlay | I got a pocket protector with a tap and die set once |
| 02:38.22 | ScytheBlade1 | nice |
| 02:39.54 | ScytheBlade1 | That's kinda sad, the UofU doesn't have any LUGs? |
| 02:40.07 | findlay | they have a mailing list |
| 02:40.11 | findlay | I found it once |
| 02:40.14 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 02:40.16 | ScytheBlade1 | That's motivating ;) |
| 02:41.54 | findlay | http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:etLWDHCVdxoJ:www.it.utah.edu/subscribe_to_lists.html |
| 02:41.56 | brac | [Email List Subscription] |
| 02:42.01 | ScytheBlade1 | loooool |
| 02:42.27 | ScytheBlade1 | Had to use google cache? |
| 02:42.49 | findlay | look how 1980s the old page looks |
| 02:43.03 | ScytheBlade1 | yeah |
| 02:43.10 | ScytheBlade1 | now, it. doesn't even exist |
| 02:43.24 | findlay | did you try to subscribe? |
| 02:43.56 | ScytheBlade1 | No |
| 02:44.01 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm an admitted student, not much else |
| 02:44.24 | ScytheBlade1 | "site:utah.edu mailing list linux" <-- pulling up nothing, too |
| 02:45.55 | fozzmoo | sllug.org |
| 02:46.07 | ScytheBlade1 | I thought that was going to be the closest match |
| 02:46.09 | fozzmoo | That encompasses the UofU |
| 02:46.18 | fozzmoo | THat's where the meetings are held. |
| 02:46.25 | ScytheBlade1 | Ah |
| 02:49.13 | ScytheBlade1 | fozzmoo, thanks |
| 02:49.20 | fozzmoo | np |
| 02:49.27 | ScytheBlade1 | The only link that I saw in relation to the UofU |
| 02:49.31 | ScytheBlade1 | "Place: Engineering and Mines Classroom Building (EMCB) room 101" |
| 02:49.33 | ScytheBlade1 | And nothing more ;) |
| 02:49.52 | ScytheBlade1 | Didn't say it was at the U, just kinda assumed it |
| 02:49.57 | fozzmoo | heh heh. |
| 02:50.14 | ScytheBlade1 | are you a member of the sllug? |
| 02:51.21 | fozzmoo | Unofficially, yeah. |
| 02:51.34 | fozzmoo | None of the LUGs around here have an official membership. |
| 02:51.44 | fozzmoo | If you subscribe tot he mailing lists and/or go to meetings, you're in. :) |
| 02:53.10 | findlay | I'm thinking about starting a LUG where the initiation is that applicants have to write a 10,000 word essay on one of the symphonies of Prokofiev |
| 02:54.54 | *** part/#utah phinux (n=jamie@c-24-10-237-226.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 02:54.55 | fozzmoo | Good luck with that. :) |
| 02:55.51 | ScytheBlade1 | rofl |
| 02:56.04 | ScytheBlade1 | attending the U by chance? |
| 02:57.51 | fozzmoo | I'm not. I finished my CS degree at USU a few years ago. :) |
| 02:58.09 | ScytheBlade1 | Ah |
| 02:58.46 | fozzmoo | heh heh. You'll find them. |
| 02:59.04 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 02:59.14 | ScytheBlade1 | I can't tell if that's a confident laugh, or a "haha sucker" laugh |
| 02:59.30 | fozzmoo | ScytheBlade1: Are you in high school? |
| 02:59.35 | ScytheBlade1 | At the moment, yes |
| 02:59.38 | fozzmoo | Where at? |
| 02:59.40 | ScytheBlade1 | Bingham |
| 02:59.45 | ScytheBlade1 | (South Jordan) |
| 02:59.49 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@cobra.mcnabbs.org) |
| 02:59.50 | findlay | I'm subscribed now to the ulug list |
| 02:59.52 | fozzmoo | Ahhh. Yeah. On 104th. |
| 02:59.56 | ScytheBlade1 | You named it |
| 03:00.03 | fozzmoo | I live in Riverton. |
| 03:00.06 | ScytheBlade1 | Oh? |
| 03:00.06 | findlay | Bingham, our eternal enemy |
| 03:00.10 | ScytheBlade1 | Hahaha |
| 03:00.15 | findlay | I went to CHHS |
| 03:00.24 | fozzmoo | CHHS? |
| 03:00.26 | ScytheBlade1 | Not MY fault that you all suck, and are collectively several points behind us in everything ;) |
| 03:00.30 | ScytheBlade1 | Copper Hills |
| 03:00.31 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@65.73.113.162) |
| 03:00.34 | findlay | and would have gone to WJHS |
| 03:00.36 | fozzmoo | Where's Copper HIlls? |
| 03:00.51 | fozzmoo | wah! |
| 03:01.07 | findlay | interesting that before 1979ish West Jordan was in Bingham's boundaries |
| 03:01.21 | ScytheBlade1 | Before then, the valley attended Bingham ;) |
| 03:02.04 | findlay | http://www.google.com/local?f=q&hl=en&q=&ll=40.59437,-112.019005&spn=0.017564,0.029268&t=h |
| 03:02.12 | findlay | there |
| 03:02.32 | findlay | at least this side of the river (: |
| 03:02.39 | fozzmoo | On the old Bingham Hwy even. |
| 03:02.45 | ScytheBlade1 | Yeah |
| 03:02.53 | fozzmoo | Or is that the new one? |
| 03:03.07 | findlay | new |
| 03:03.11 | fozzmoo | The New Bingham Highway. |
| 03:03.20 | fozzmoo | When they build another Bingham Hwy, what will they call it? |
| 03:03.26 | fozzmoo | Really New Bingham Hwy |
| 03:03.41 | findlay | no, they'll probably delete the old ones |
| 03:03.41 | ScytheBlade1 | Whoo! New google maps data! |
| 03:03.45 | fozzmoo | I grew up in Granger. |
| 03:05.38 | fozzmoo | Yeah- nothing interesting about that. |
| 03:05.40 | findlay | Taylorsville is named after my great grandpa's brother who had a farm on the hill |
| 03:05.51 | fozzmoo | Cool. |
| 03:05.59 | findlay | one of John Taylor's sons |
| 03:06.33 | fozzmoo | tene lives in Taylorsville |
| 03:06.39 | atoponce | that's one thing my wife reminds me of regularly |
| 03:06.42 | findlay | at least I've been told it was named after him |
| 03:06.45 | atoponce | we're related to john taylor |
| 03:07.31 | fozzmoo | Probably a lot of us are in one way or another. |
| 03:07.37 | ScytheBlade1 | fozzmoo, why do you ask though? (if I was in high school currently) |
| 03:07.45 | tene | I'm a tene. |
| 03:07.45 | fozzmoo | ScytheBlade1: Just curious. |
| 03:07.47 | tene | I've been poked. |
| 03:07.50 | ScytheBlade1 | Fair enough |
| 03:07.59 | ScytheBlade1 | Though - really - was that an evil "haha sucker" laugh earlier? ;) |
| 03:08.00 | fozzmoo | ScytheBlade1: What you hoping to study at the U? |
| 03:08.07 | ScytheBlade1 | CS |
| 03:08.10 | fozzmoo | Cool. |
| 03:08.20 | ScytheBlade1 | I want to do IT.. with a CS degree ;) |
| 03:08.30 | findlay | UU is a good school |
| 03:08.39 | ScytheBlade1 | So I've been told |
| 03:08.42 | fozzmoo | I know nothing of the current UU program. |
| 03:08.47 | ScytheBlade1 | Though both my mother and my father went to BYU |
| 03:08.48 | fozzmoo | They used to have a good program. |
| 03:08.48 | fozzmoo | :) |
| 03:08.54 | fozzmoo | tene went to BYU! |
| 03:08.58 | tene | I did! |
| 03:09.01 | tene | I'm a tene. |
| 03:09.01 | ScytheBlade1 | And when my dad's business partner heard that I might be attending UU |
| 03:09.04 | tene | I've been poked. |
| 03:09.06 | tene | Again. |
| 03:09.12 | ScytheBlade1 | (Him being a diehard UU fan) |
| 03:09.23 | ScytheBlade1 | Muttered something about me "breaking the evil traditions of my forefathers" |
| 03:09.43 | fozzmoo | Oh well. |
| 03:09.58 | ScytheBlade1 | I wasn't quite sure how to take that.. ;) |
| 03:10.09 | fozzmoo | I haven't understood the energy people expend on school rivalries in a long, long time. |
| 03:10.29 | fozzmoo | I mean, I painted my face and ran across the football field shirtless during halftime when I was a freshman in college... |
| 03:10.39 | fozzmoo | (I'm surprised I admit that now) |
| 03:10.56 | fozzmoo | but since then, I just... don't get it. |
| 03:11.00 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 03:11.42 | fozzmoo | I've even got to the point where I loath collegiate athletics altogether - especially when it's taxpayer funded. |
| 03:11.42 | atoponce | however, i still do wear my school ring |
| 03:11.49 | fozzmoo | People tell me, tho, that collegiate athletics are where the real excitement is as a sports enthusiast. |
| 03:11.57 | fozzmoo | I'm not one of those either, so I guess it matters not to me. :) |
| 03:12.40 | fozzmoo | I think a good CS school needs to feed students a healthy dose of theory along with practical stuff. |
| 03:12.52 | atoponce | sports generally doesn't appeal to geeks. :) |
| 03:12.59 | ScytheBlade1 | Nope :) |
| 03:13.16 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 03:13.58 | fozzmoo | So, I hope the UU program does that- teaches a lot of theory along with other stuff. |
| 03:14.30 | fozzmoo | My bro-in-law went to Weber State - learned lots of practical stuff. :) |
| 03:14.32 | findlay | fozzmoo: you should have come to the Alan Kay lecture |
| 03:14.39 | fozzmoo | findlay: Yeah- that woudl have been cool. |
| 03:14.50 | atoponce | weber is good, but bought and paid for my microsoft |
| 03:15.03 | findlay | so is UVSC, from what I've seen |
| 03:15.15 | fozzmoo | My bro-in-law's "computer architecture" class taught him about the components inside a desktop computer. |
| 03:15.32 | fozzmoo | At USU, our "computer architecture" class was about registers and assembly language. :) |
| 03:15.32 | ScytheBlade1 | Hey, that's a good question... if I can acquire license after adacemic license through the U as a student |
| 03:15.55 | fozzmoo | ScytheBlade1: If you're using open source, it's a worthless question. |
| 03:16.00 | fozzmoo | But, yeah, that should be no problem. |
| 03:16.02 | ScytheBlade1 | Heh |
| 03:16.07 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm an "odd duck" |
| 03:16.21 | fozzmoo | Join the odd duck club. |
| 03:16.21 | ScytheBlade1 | I've got two 100% legit win2k3 enterprise CDs in my CD binder |
| 03:16.27 | ScytheBlade1 | Next to a knoppix and gentoo CD |
| 03:17.10 | ScytheBlade1 | Oh, and a legit MSSQL 2000 CD too |
| 03:17.24 | fozzmoo | I think most of us do Windows too- but only because we have to and not because we want to. |
| 03:17.27 | ScytheBlade1 | Complete with the flash holograms and poster that's larger than I am, describing their internal table format |
| 03:18.19 | atoponce | i use windows... at work |
| 03:18.46 | fozzmoo | I have the luxury of running my own company and I dictate "no windows" |
| 03:18.49 | findlay | closest I come is administering a samba server |
| 03:19.02 | findlay | fozzmoo: no windows? Is it dark |
| 03:19.05 | findlay | and evil? |
| 03:19.14 | fozzmoo | but we support a lot of clients who need Windows support, so occasionally we end up touching it occasionally. |
| 03:19.17 | fozzmoo | Funny you mention that... |
| 03:19.23 | fozzmoo | I like to keep the office dark. |
| 03:19.24 | atoponce | the world is more open and free when there are no windows and gates |
| 03:19.29 | fozzmoo | It's an internal struggle. |
| 03:19.40 | fozzmoo | My partners are "open the blinds" kind of guys... |
| 03:19.46 | fozzmoo | and I like it dark. |
| 03:19.49 | fozzmoo | darker is better. |
| 03:19.51 | ScytheBlade1 | My dad's office runs windows product after windows product. Vendor lock in from the start, good times. |
| 03:19.53 | fozzmoo | I think tene likes it dark too. |
| 03:20.02 | findlay | but you wash your hands after you touch it? especially before you eat anything? |
| 03:20.14 | fozzmoo | ScytheBlade1: What does your dad's office do? |
| 03:20.23 | ScytheBlade1 | Law Firm, real estate |
| 03:20.30 | findlay | heh |
| 03:20.30 | fozzmoo | Ahhh. |
| 03:20.34 | findlay | of course |
| 03:20.40 | fozzmoo | Takes a lot of courage to run non-Windows in that kind of business. |
| 03:20.44 | fozzmoo | There are people who do it, though. |
| 03:20.53 | ScytheBlade1 | I run linux where I can... |
| 03:20.54 | *** join/#utah levi (n=levi@levi.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 03:20.56 | findlay | which law firm? |
| 03:21.05 | fozzmoo | Speak of the geek! Here's levi! |
| 03:21.10 | fozzmoo | ;-) |
| 03:21.12 | ScytheBlade1 | http://www.1stnationaltitle.com/ (note that I did *not* design that) |
| 03:21.20 | brac | [1st National Title Insurance Agency LLC] |
| 03:21.28 | levi | Eh? Someone talking about Lisp or something? ;) |
| 03:21.43 | ScytheBlade1 | And excuse the latency.. windows update services is grabbing another 13GB of updates... so.. ;) |
| 03:22.11 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch@63-230-29-6.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 03:22.33 | fozzmoo | levi: I was just saying that I think a good CS program would serve up a healthy dose of theory along with practical stuff. |
| 03:22.48 | levi | Ah, yes. I agree! |
| 03:22.57 | fozzmoo | As I knew you would. :) |
| 03:22.59 | levi | Because if there's no theory, it's not CS. |
| 03:23.03 | findlay | ~agree |
| 03:23.04 | ibot | ACTION nods his head |
| 03:23.07 | fozzmoo | Yeah- it's just C. |
| 03:23.08 | fozzmoo | ;-) |
| 03:23.20 | levi | Java trade school. |
| 03:23.28 | levi | No one teaches C anymore. |
| 03:23.28 | fozzmoo | AKA SLCC. |
| 03:23.40 | findlay | I'd be more explicit: If there's no theory, there's no science |
| 03:23.53 | atoponce | weber doesn't teach unix/linux any longer |
| 03:23.57 | findlay | shouldn't that be SLC++? |
| 03:23.58 | levi | That is more general, not more explicit. |
| 03:24.34 | findlay | levi: you said CS, not Computer Science |
| 03:24.36 | levi | atoponce: Strange that they'd move away from it considering the growth in Linux use. Probably some MS investment, though. |
| 03:24.48 | findlay | but you're right anyway |
| 03:24.50 | levi | findlay: CS is an abbreviation for Computer Science |
| 03:24.56 | findlay | no way |
| 03:24.58 | findlay | (: |
| 03:25.09 | atoponce | yeah- they are microsoft through and through. don't know if there is financial backing or not |
| 03:25.20 | atoponce | but they just recently decided to drop the classes |
| 03:25.56 | findlay | UVSC seems to be slowly moving away from the Microsoft shop paradigm |
| 03:25.58 | atoponce | frustrating for me trying to spread the linux love |
| 03:26.03 | findlay | or at least diversifying |
| 03:26.22 | levi | UVSC does seem to be doing a fairly good job of that. |
| 03:26.29 | fozzmoo | Yeah. |
| 03:26.30 | atoponce | i don't mind the microsoft dev classes, just need more diversity, as findlay said |
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| 03:26.38 | findlay | but they still have no non MS labs |
| 03:26.40 | findlay | anywhere |
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| 03:26.46 | levi | findlay: They have Mac labs |
| 03:26.53 | findlay | that doesn't count |
| 03:26.57 | fozzmoo | heh. |
| 03:26.57 | atoponce | we do have a $50,000 solaris labs that goes unused... |
| 03:26.59 | levi | findlay: Sure it does |
| 03:27.16 | levi | findlay: They're sweet G5 iMacs |
| 03:27.23 | atoponce | ... and the faculty is upset that students don't use it |
| 03:27.50 | levi | atoponce: At least there aren't students sleeping there and playing xpilot all night. |
| 03:28.06 | fozzmoo | ;-) |
| 03:28.21 | atoponce | nah, but a few of us setup a beowulf cluster over a single night |
| 03:28.24 | findlay | levi: the same kind of numb computer ignorance that inculcates defacto-ness in windows b0xen applies to mac b0xen too |
| 03:28.24 | atoponce | that was fun |
| 03:28.33 | findlay | at least until recently |
| 03:28.44 | atoponce | lots of pizza and bawls |
| 03:29.00 | levi | findlay: It applies to anything with a pre-installed OS equally. |
| 03:29.11 | fozzmoo | Okay. This prompts me to tell a story. |
| 03:29.14 | levi | findlay: I don't see a useful point there. |
| 03:29.22 | findlay | levi: precisely. What else comes preinstalled? |
| 03:29.31 | levi | findlay: Solaris |
| 03:29.36 | levi | findlay: HPUX |
| 03:29.51 | levi | findlay: Linux, in some cases |
| 03:29.55 | findlay | but commonly found in a computer lab? |
| 03:30.01 | levi | findlay: Yes |
| 03:30.09 | levi | Depends on your school, of course. |
| 03:30.12 | findlay | ok |
| 03:30.17 | findlay | storytime |
| 03:30.49 | fozzmoo | When I was at USU, I lived in a house off-campus with five other guys. This was... 1993 or so... Anyway- these guys were all redneck partiers. Lots of beer drinking and what not... |
| 03:30.53 | levi | That's okay, I've got stories too. :) |
| 03:31.47 | fozzmoo | Anyway- one night toward the end of the quarter (this was before all the schools switched to semesters) at about 2 or 3 in the morning, one of my housemates remembered (amazingly) he had a paper due in a psychology class at 7:30 a.m. |
| 03:32.02 | fozzmoo | He had scribbled up on paper, but it needed to be printed out. |
| 03:32.09 | levi | Heh. |
| 03:32.23 | fozzmoo | At this time, USU didn't have any public 24-hour computer labs. |
| 03:32.29 | fozzmoo | I didn't own a computer at the time either. |
| 03:32.40 | fozzmoo | But I told him, I knew a way to get into the engineering buildings... |
| 03:32.51 | fozzmoo | and I knew the keycode to get into the EE Sun lab. |
| 03:32.59 | findlay | ooh |
| 03:33.01 | ScytheBlade1 | Question |
| 03:33.17 | fozzmoo | They had a Epson FX850 dot-matrix printer hooked up to the server in there. |
| 03:33.24 | ScytheBlade1 | Why were you up at 2:00 AM? |
| 03:33.26 | findlay | I can tell a simmilar story or two |
| 03:33.38 | fozzmoo | ScytheBlade1: Couldn't sleep, maybe? :) |
| 03:33.44 | ScytheBlade1 | Just you know |
| 03:33.45 | ScytheBlade1 | Curious |
| 03:33.54 | fozzmoo | So, anyway- we got up there- the halls are dark and deserted... |
| 03:34.12 | fozzmoo | I punch in the keycode on the door and open it up, bright flourescent light blinds us both. |
| 03:34.25 | fozzmoo | There were 15 workstations in there. 14 were in use. |
| 03:34.30 | levi | Heh. |
| 03:34.39 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 03:34.45 | findlay | at least you got one |
| 03:34.59 | levi | atoponce: See, did the faculty ever check the lab at night? ;) |
| 03:35.11 | levi | That's when the real unix geeks come out. |
| 03:35.13 | fozzmoo | Not one of the users were... caucasian. |
| 03:35.16 | atoponce | levi: we actually had two faculty members with us |
| 03:35.39 | fozzmoo | So, we sit down at this machine in the back row. My housemate, still VERY inebriated. |
| 03:35.58 | atoponce | it was all good, until the lab manager nearly kills the dns |
| 03:36.02 | fozzmoo | These SunOS (v3, I think) machines didn't have any word processing apps, I don't think. |
| 03:36.10 | fozzmoo | So I pulled up vi. :) |
| 03:36.20 | findlay | and LaTeX? |
| 03:36.21 | fozzmoo | I transcribe his chickenscratch into vi while he sat there. |
| 03:36.38 | atoponce | fozzmoo: what did you get out of it? |
| 03:36.41 | fozzmoo | After we'd be there about 5 minutes... he finally turns to me and says... |
| 03:36.42 | levi | fozzmoo: Geez, that's a lot of work to do for a drunk roommate. |
| 03:36.53 | fozzmoo | "Whoa... It's like we're not even in America anymore." |
| 03:36.58 | ScytheBlade1 | haha |
| 03:37.01 | RyanE | hehe |
| 03:37.01 | atoponce | lol |
| 03:37.21 | fozzmoo | Got the paper printed out and left. |
| 03:37.21 | findlay | heh |
| 03:37.30 | RyanE | I typed many a psychology paper in College for a roommate... Couldn't type worth anything. |
| 03:37.35 | RyanE | always good for a later favor... :) |
| 03:37.53 | fozzmoo | I don't really know why I did anything for this guy. He was a real jerk. |
| 03:38.02 | fozzmoo | Had a different girl over at the house every other night. |
| 03:38.04 | ScytheBlade1 | Because it was 2:00 AM and you couldn't sleep? ;) |
| 03:38.13 | fozzmoo | They never came back. |
| 03:38.16 | QBFreak | 2:00 AM is not a time for sleep |
| 03:38.28 | levi | I was often up at 2am. :) |
| 03:39.02 | fozzmoo | I pulled 40 hours in a computer lab once. |
| 03:39.03 | levi | Of course, this was BYU, so we'd just make a run for Hardees to get a nice freshly grilled sourdough burger and a big Dr. Pepper. |
| 03:39.15 | fozzmoo | Ahhh. Hardees. |
| 03:39.18 | ScytheBlade1 | I do believe I'll be living at home for all of this |
| 03:39.19 | QBFreak | mmm Dr. Pepper |
| 03:39.23 | ScytheBlade1 | Money sucks |
| 03:39.23 | fozzmoo | Best Mushroom Swiss burger in the world. |
| 03:39.29 | atoponce | no no no. Dr Pepper |
| 03:39.35 | atoponce | :) |
| 03:39.37 | RyanE | and those deep-fried sourdough bread buns... Mmmm..... |
| 03:39.47 | RyanE | well, probably not *actually* deep-fried, but sure tasted like it. |
| 03:39.53 | fozzmoo | heh heh. |
| 03:40.00 | levi | Well-buttered, at least. :) |
| 03:40.30 | atoponce | Dr Pepper- drink of the gods |
| 03:40.35 | RyanE | like a mini monte cristo. |
| 03:40.39 | fozzmoo | ScytheBlade1: Yes, money sucks... when you don't have much of it. |
| 03:40.50 | ScytheBlade1 | fozzmoo, and that would be the problem ;) |
| 03:40.52 | levi | Every night on X96 they did this show where listeners voted for a disc to play, and then they played the whole thing. |
| 03:40.55 | QBFreak | atoponce: my only issue with it is that it tends to fill me up, like I've eaten or something |
| 03:41.11 | levi | We'd get everyone in the dorm hall to call in and vote for a disc we wanted to hear. |
| 03:41.19 | ScytheBlade1 | levi, when was this? |
| 03:41.24 | atoponce | QBFreak: don't mind here. never have to eat! :) |
| 03:41.28 | QBFreak | other than that its wonderful stuff |
| 03:41.30 | fozzmoo | When X96 was... kinda cool. |
| 03:41.33 | levi | A loooooong time ago. :) |
| 03:41.40 | ScytheBlade1 | Apparently, haha |
| 03:41.42 | QBFreak | well, I tend to get shaky from sugar and caffiene pretty easilly |
| 03:41.44 | fozzmoo | Probably early to mid90s. |
| 03:41.50 | QBFreak | keeping some real food in me is always a plus |
| 03:42.03 | levi | Like, over 10 years ago now, I think. |
| 03:42.06 | atoponce | man, i've been downing that stuff since my sophmore year in high school |
| 03:42.25 | atoponce | i don't think carriene affects me much anymore |
| 03:42.36 | ScytheBlade1 | Well, I have to be at school at 6:45 AM tomorrow, and I've been dead tired all day long (for the past week) |
| 03:42.37 | atoponce | and my spare tire seems to keep growing |
| 03:42.38 | RyanE | apparently, you need some. |
| 03:42.42 | ScytheBlade1 | So, I think it's time to sleep for me |
| 03:43.08 | ScytheBlade1 | have fun all |
| 03:43.14 | levi | ScytheBlade1: Seeya |
| 03:43.16 | fozzmoo | later |
| 03:43.20 | atoponce | ttyl |
| 03:43.25 | levi | atoponce: Don't worry, it'll diminish again. |
| 03:43.44 | QBFreak | it only affects me when I havn't had sufficient food |
| 03:43.52 | QBFreak | which is often, I tend to forget to eat... |
| 03:43.54 | atoponce | i'm waiting for he university gymn to open back up |
| 03:44.27 | atoponce | stupid rennovation has made me gain like 20lbs. |
| 03:44.34 | atoponce | that's it. i'm suing. :) |
| 03:45.35 | fozzmoo | heh. |
| 03:45.52 | levi | http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/04/04/ibm_rapport_kilocore/ |
| 03:46.01 | levi | Programming for one of those things would be interesting. |
| 03:46.07 | brac | [IBM says Kilocore technology will outrun today's mobile processors | TG Daily] |
| 03:46.12 | findlay | 1024 cores? |
| 03:46.21 | fozzmoo | HOLY _____! |
| 03:47.16 | findlay | holy line? |
| 03:47.16 | fozzmoo | Funny they mention gaming and homeland security in the same sentence as types of compute-intensive applications. |
| 03:47.51 | fozzmoo | holy fill-in-the-blank. |
| 03:59.01 | levi | Hmm, Guido seems keen on adding generic functions to Python 3000. |
| 03:59.55 | fozzmoo | Inspired by php, maybe? |
| 04:00.50 | RyanE | fozzmoo: must be getting late. At first glance, I thought you wrote: Inspired by Dr. Pepper, maybe? |
| 04:03.13 | findlay | python 3000? |
| 04:03.33 | levi | No, probably inspired by Lisp, Dylan, and some other languages that do similar things. |
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| 04:07.46 | SpecialZ | ~poke maquis |
| 04:07.47 | ibot | ACTION grabs a syringe |
| 04:08.17 | RyanE | my wife one time had really dry lips, and I had neosporin out, she tried it, numbed her lips. |
| 04:08.24 | RyanE | (speaking of icy hot)... |
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| 04:21.56 | findlay | gassy cold |
| 04:22.17 | levi | liquid lukewarm |
| 04:22.38 | mheath | Heh. I love it when people starting talking about how evil the Iraq war is as soon as they find out I'm joining the Marine Corp. |
| 04:22.43 | RyanE | solid hot |
| 04:23.02 | mheath | If you'd known me and my political views about 4 years ago, you'd realize how rediculous that is. |
| 04:23.23 | fozzmoo | mheath: I thought you were joininug the navy |
| 04:23.59 | findlay | fozzmoo: it's the marines now because that's were all the girls are |
| 04:24.05 | mheath | fozzmoo, No. I currently train with a Navy-related youth organization. I'm enlisting in tue Marine Corp, though. |
| 04:24.15 | mheath | I ship off June 26th. |
| 04:24.20 | RyanE | that and that 'Village People' song. eww... |
| 04:25.01 | fozzmoo | mheath: Well, you already know how I feel about Iraq. |
| 04:25.01 | levi | Why would anyone care about the political views of a 12 year old? |
| 04:25.12 | RyanE | hehe |
| 04:25.16 | mheath | levi, Eh? |
| 04:25.44 | levi | Or 13, or however old you were 4 years ago. |
| 04:25.50 | mheath | Oh |
| 04:26.04 | mheath | The day we rolled into Iraq....... |
| 04:26.12 | fozzmoo | That was 3 years ago. |
| 04:26.28 | fozzmoo | 3 years, 1 week and 3 days. |
| 04:26.33 | findlay | my cousin was there |
| 04:26.43 | mheath | I know dozens of guys who were there |
| 04:26.58 | mheath | Navy + Marine Corp reserve center salt lake city |
| 04:27.00 | findlay | he called home from a hotel in Bagdad when they stormed the city |
| 04:27.20 | mheath | Marines there are attached to Fox Company |
| 04:27.23 | mheath | First Marines to roll in |
| 04:27.29 | mheath | (FIrst to fight -- Hoorah!) |
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| 04:28.34 | levi | (First to get killed, too) |
| 04:28.44 | findlay | (yeah) |
| 04:28.49 | mheath | After 9/11...Back then, I wore all black. "punk" look....huge spikes on my head, etc. |
| 04:29.08 | levi | mheath: People generally expect kids to grow out of that |
| 04:29.20 | mheath | I went around school with a printed US flag that I'd photoshopped skull and cross bones onto |
| 04:29.46 | mheath | I've had hours of conversations with liberal teachers in both my junior high and highschool on why I thought the Afghanistan and Iraq invasions were wrong |
| 04:30.16 | levi | Have you changed your mind? |
| 04:30.19 | mheath | Thats why I find it so funny when someone tells me I'm stupid for "thinking that we're there to fight for freedom" |
| 04:30.27 | mheath | levi, Yes, partially. |
| 04:31.14 | mheath | One of my reasons for less concern is the overall resilliency of America. |
| 04:31.43 | mheath | If you look at American history, there have been several events that led to extreme unpopularity of President's and questionable participation in international affairs |
| 04:32.07 | mheath | People have said that "this is the worst thing we've ever done" many times before, about many different things |
| 04:32.23 | mheath | But you notice - things fade into the history books |
| 04:32.24 | levi | Sure, but past mistakes don't mean we ought to knowingly make more. |
| 04:32.39 | fozzmoo | I think we're doing great things in Iraq and Afghanistan. |
| 04:32.45 | mheath | After a while, we regain friends. Things improve. And America, overall, has been consistently improving. |
| 04:32.58 | fozzmoo | People complain about the casualties... |
| 04:33.03 | mheath | levi, I know. I'm not trying to justify actions that I think or are obviously wrong. |
| 04:33.11 | QBFreak | aren't the lower than any other war though? |
| 04:33.13 | fozzmoo | but gawl, 800 dead per year... for a ground war! |
| 04:33.28 | fozzmoo | I'd say we're doing amazing in that department. |
| 04:33.34 | mheath | I am trying to say that I don't have a problem supporting a government that I know will make some mistakes. |
| 04:33.58 | mheath | Because I know that, in the long run, mistakes that appear big will eventually fade into the past and be inconsequential overall. |
| 04:34.05 | levi | fozzmoo: The casualties are indeed very low, considering everything. That's good, of course, but it's irrelevant to the justification of the war. |
| 04:34.17 | mheath | I am a tool of the US government (or will be at least) |
| 04:34.24 | fozzmoo | mheath: Good for you. |
| 04:34.27 | mheath | When given the opportunity, I will make the best morale judgement I can |
| 04:34.46 | RyanE | mheath: I assume you mean 'moral'... |
| 04:34.47 | levi | mheath: Hopefully they will eventually fade, rather than triggering another huge world war or something. |
| 04:34.50 | fozzmoo | Problem is, when you're a tool of the US govt, you're not allowed to make moral judgement |
| 04:34.51 | mheath | However, I also feel the blame for inapporpriate actions that I facilitate lies on the elected officials that provoked them |
| 04:34.52 | fozzmoo | :) |
| 04:34.52 | mheath | Not on me. |
| 04:34.58 | RyanE | although, making a morale judgement will also be necessary. |
| 04:35.13 | mheath | fozzmoo, USMC, man. |
| 04:35.16 | levi | fozzmoo: You are required to make moral judgements in the military. |
| 04:35.24 | mheath | Ever thought about USMC participation in peacekeeping missions? |
| 04:35.34 | mheath | You've got a loaded M16A2 rifle and your patrolling the streets of a third world country |
| 04:35.38 | mheath | You see a woman getting raped |
| 04:35.41 | fozzmoo | oh? I thought military was all about following orders. |
| 04:35.51 | levi | fozzmoo: Yes, but not illegal orders. |
| 04:35.52 | mheath | What do you do? Help her? Get the police involved? |
| 04:36.01 | fozzmoo | Yeah- blow your cover for the woman! |
| 04:36.12 | mheath | Fire your weapon, potentially changing our international policy and involvmeent with this country? |
| 04:36.20 | fozzmoo | Okay. Sure. I get it. |
| 04:36.28 | RyanE | fozzmoo: I don't think he was 'under cover' with an M16A2... |
| 04:36.36 | fozzmoo | My sarcasm fell flat on the floor there. |
| 04:36.41 | RyanE | hehe |
| 04:37.19 | levi | I don't think it's morally sound to join the military when it is currently engaged in a conflict you don't consider justified, though. |
| 04:37.20 | QBFreak | sarcasm and chat don't mix well |
| 04:37.37 | fozzmoo | Say what you want about the justification for going to war, but there is one good thing about what's going on in Iraq and Afghanistan: dead terrorists. |
| 04:37.45 | fozzmoo | lots of em. |
| 04:37.45 | mheath | levi, So what? We're there. We can't do anything about that. |
| 04:37.51 | mheath | We can't just leave Iraq. That won't work. |
| 04:38.04 | mheath | I don't see anything wrong with doing my best to improve the situation from here on out |
| 04:38.16 | mheath | Give some poor national guard guy who signed up to pay for college a chance to go home. |
| 04:38.21 | maquis | we need people who know the difference between right and wrong out there |
| 04:38.21 | fozzmoo | There are places in Afghanistan that have clean running water that haven't had anything like that... EVER. |
| 04:38.40 | maquis | most of our problems in iraq have been due to some people in the military without ethics |
| 04:38.41 | levi | fozzmoo: There are places in Iraq that used to have clean running water that don't now. |
| 04:38.41 | fozzmoo | There are hundreds of water treatment projects going on in Iraq too, also. |
| 04:39.08 | fozzmoo | levi: Eh... |
| 04:39.25 | maquis | our military has tried to do a lot of good... some people in the military have done some things that *really* hindered our ability to do that (abu ghraib being one area of that) |
| 04:39.30 | fozzmoo | Maybe so, but there's more progress than not. |
| 04:39.43 | levi | fozzmoo: That depends on who you ask, I think. |
| 04:40.09 | fozzmoo | maquis: Yeah- and the hilarious thing about Abu Ghraib was that people call what happened there "torture." |
| 04:40.15 | maquis | but overall, the majority of the people are glad we're there... they know what would happen if we pulled out immediately... |
| 04:40.18 | mheath | I find Bush to be a moron for trying to draw false connections between Hussein and 9/11 |
| 04:40.20 | mheath | However, remember this |
| 04:40.36 | fozzmoo | mheath: Heh heh. You haven't been reading the news lately, have you? |
| 04:40.47 | maquis | fozzmoo: i would say some of it probably falls under that category... at least, it was completely inappropriate, and made everything we're trying to do a lot harder |
| 04:40.54 | levi | Bush was already planning to invade Iraq; 9/11 was a convenient excuse to get the nation behind him. |
| 04:41.02 | fozzmoo | They've got very well documented evidence now that Hussein was very much in touch with Al Qaeda |
| 04:41.04 | mheath | We got rid of a dictator who has tortured and killed kurds,and many of his citizens. |
| 04:41.20 | RyanE | do ends justify the means? |
| 04:41.22 | fozzmoo | He may not have known about actual operations they were planning in the US, but he was actively supporting the organization. |
| 04:41.27 | mheath | We've introduced a level of political freedom (Note that I'm not saying we went there to give them 'freedom'; this has been a result) |
| 04:41.39 | maquis | RyanE: not always, but i would say that there are situations where doing nothing is a whole lot worse |
| 04:41.49 | fozzmoo | levi: Where do you get this stuff about Bush wanting to go to Iraq? |
| 04:41.50 | mheath | And levi is right; we tore their electrical and water services to pieces |
| 04:41.53 | mheath | But |
| 04:41.55 | levi | mheath: They do have political freedom now, but it remains to be seen if it will 'stick' |
| 04:41.59 | levi | fozzmoo: The news! |
| 04:42.01 | RyanE | I don't think that we will know whether invading was good or not for 20 years. Makes it difficult to judge. |
| 04:42.01 | fozzmoo | WHAT electric and water services/! |
| 04:42.05 | mheath | Their electrical grid is now much larger and much more providing |
| 04:42.20 | mheath | We've started unbiased free education systems in a country that never had that |
| 04:42.28 | fozzmoo | The public infrastructure in Iraq was in BAD shape before we invaded... |
| 04:42.31 | maquis | overall, we've done a ton of good... we've caused problems, yes... but that's always going to happen in a war... |
| 04:42.32 | mheath | And we're working on improving the reamining flaws in utilities. |
| 04:42.33 | fozzmoo | They had rolling blackouts all the time. |
| 04:42.36 | levi | fozzmoo: Also, I've read The Project for a New American Century and the signatories thereof, who hold important advisory positions in the White House. |
| 04:42.49 | maquis | we're doing what we can to minimize the effects on the innocent people, while handling the not-so-innocent |
| 04:43.18 | fozzmoo | levi: I haven't read that but I did read Woodward's books on the Afghanistan and Iraq invasions. |
| 04:43.53 | fozzmoo | Hussein was embroiled in all kinds of bad dealings and wasn't cooperating with inspectors and all that crap. |
| 04:44.24 | levi | fozzmoo: It's a document from a neo-conservative think-tank that outlines a strategy for waging war on the middle east to bring them democracy. |
| 04:45.31 | fozzmoo | Interesting. |
| 04:46.00 | levi | fozzmoo: It's interesting reading, and makes some compelling arguments, but I think they are overly simplistic about war and lacking in true moral justification for war. |
| 04:46.38 | fozzmoo | In my opinion, we may not need to do much more to stabilize the middle-east. |
| 04:47.00 | fozzmoo | Once other countries see how good Afghanistan and Iraq have it, they're going to want it too. |
| 04:47.17 | fozzmoo | There may be internal turmoil while people revolt against oppressive governments. |
| 04:47.23 | maquis | if we pull out of iraq now, though... we could destabilize most of the region.... |
| 04:47.24 | levi | http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm |
| 04:47.25 | fozzmoo | But that's how things get done. |
| 04:47.26 | brac | [Statement of Principles] |
| 04:48.01 | levi | fozzmoo: Look at the signatories on there, and you'll see that this organization is behind the strategic thinking of White House foreign policy right now. |
| 04:48.37 | levi | Cheney, Jeb Bush, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, etc. |
| 04:49.28 | levi | This is the Nov. 2000 strategy document I was referring to: http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf |
| 04:50.19 | fozzmoo | Wolfowitz is pretty moderate. |
| 04:50.41 | fozzmoo | He didn't want to go into Iraq. |
| 04:51.04 | fozzmoo | He and Powell tried up until the very end to sort it out diplomatically. |
| 04:51.06 | levi | I saw some articles on BBC News in the last week or so that talked about how Bush was trying to enlist Britain's support in an Iraq invasion before 9/11. |
| 04:51.24 | fozzmoo | I'm sure that was talked about given Hussein's problems. |
| 04:51.43 | fozzmoo | But a new administration talks about everything they could do the first year. |
| 04:52.02 | levi | fozzmoo: Nonetheless, he signed his name to a document that called for forcefully democratizing the middle east. |
| 04:52.33 | fozzmoo | And you're against a democratic middle east? |
| 04:52.51 | levi | No, I'm against invading countries that have not attacked us. |
| 04:53.20 | fozzmoo | Normally, I would agree... but it all comes back to what Bush said right after 9/11 - we will get the terrorists and those who harbor them. |
| 04:53.23 | levi | If countries in the middle east ask for our support in adopting democracy, I'm all for helping them. |
| 04:53.48 | fozzmoo | levi: Did you know there is a very significant pro-democracy movement inside Iran? |
| 04:54.01 | fozzmoo | We should help them, don't you think? :) |
| 04:54.20 | levi | fozzmoo: I fundamentallly disagree with that kind of approach to fighting terrorism, but I understand how it is compelling to some. |
| 04:55.16 | fozzmoo | I prefer what they're doing handling terror the way Clinton did- by doing barely more than nothing and then going back to business as usual. |
| 04:55.26 | fozzmoo | Whoa. Bad sentence! |
| 04:55.32 | fozzmoo | I think you get the essence. |
| 04:55.59 | fozzmoo | I prefer what they're doing to handling terror to the way Clinton did- by doing barely more than nothing and then going back to business as usual. |
| 04:56.02 | maquis | fozzmoo: do you prefer the way that clinton did it, or do you prefer bush's way over clinton |
| 04:56.06 | maquis | ah |
| 04:56.09 | maquis | ok |
| 04:56.58 | fozzmoo | Clinton had several opportunities to take out or arrest bin Laden... but didn't because he didn't want to offend anyone. |
| 04:57.31 | fozzmoo | Just an example. |
| 04:58.06 | fozzmoo | I know a lot of people think we're being imperialistic. |
| 04:58.25 | fozzmoo | That might be the case if we wanted to control Afghanistan or Iraq - like a colony or something... |
| 04:58.39 | fozzmoo | but our govt knows they need to govern themselves. |
| 04:59.09 | fozzmoo | There is a bit of "do it our way... or else" there. |
| 04:59.23 | fozzmoo | Oh well. |
| 04:59.56 | fozzmoo | I'm just glad levi and I agree on a lot of other stuff. :) |
| 05:00.24 | fozzmoo | Anyone wanna talk about these dang illegal immigrants? :) |
| 05:00.35 | fozzmoo | Good. Neither do I! |
| 05:01.14 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (n=linuxali@host-73.colo.spiretech.com) |
| 05:01.51 | levi | fozzmoo: I think there's probably a middle ground between Clinton's approach (which, in hindsight, was definitely too standoffish) and Bush's approach. |
| 05:01.51 | tensai | the least common, but not unheard of |
| 05:02.17 | fozzmoo | Oh yeah- the disparity between those two approaches leaves a lot of room to explore. |
| 05:05.14 | levi | Bush is a foreign relations disaster. Foreign governments and people loved Clinton. I hope our next president falls somewhere in between. |
| 05:05.56 | fozzmoo | Bush may be poor with foreign relations, but Powell and Rice aren't bad- that's why they have had the jobs they've had. |
| 05:06.39 | fozzmoo | I wish Bush was more conservative domestically. |
| 05:07.07 | fozzmoo | There's way too much federal spending and nothing really going to happen wrt southern border. |
| 05:10.41 | levi | Speaking of government spending... |
| 05:11.19 | levi | There was an article recently about the IRS, and how billions of tax dollars go unreported and uncollected since the IRS doesn't have the means to do more widespread auditing. |
| 05:11.52 | fozzmoo | abolish IRS. Consumption tax, all the way, man! |
| 05:11.54 | levi | The underreporting is almost exclusively from small business owners, who know they can get away with it since the audit rate is so tiny and no one else is reporting their income. |
| 05:12.22 | fozzmoo | Interesting. |
| 05:13.17 | levi | If everyone paid their taxes, the government could meet its current budget at a far lower tax rate. |
| 05:13.36 | levi | As it is, the working stiffs pay for the cheating of the small business owners. |
| 05:14.13 | levi | So, as the logic of the article goes, we should really be cheering the IRS on and hoping it becomes more effective. |
| 05:14.30 | *** part/#utah linuxalien (n=linuxali@host-73.colo.spiretech.com) |
| 05:14.36 | levi | Which does shed new light on a much-maligned arm of the government. |
| 05:15.59 | levi | As much as I dislike paying taxes, I dislike cheaters even more. |
| 05:16.23 | fozzmoo | Yeah- esp. with tax rates as low as they are... |
| 05:18.03 | QBFreak | anyone know anything about running a dual-head config on Fedora? |
| 05:18.13 | fozzmoo | What do you wanna know? |
| 05:18.26 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (n=linuxali@host-73.colo.spiretech.com) |
| 05:18.37 | QBFreak | well there's some stuff in system-config-display that is supposed to set it up |
| 05:18.42 | fozzmoo | 'system-config-display' has ... yeah. |
| 05:18.59 | QBFreak | but I get an error about something being already in use or something to that effect... |
| 05:19.01 | fozzmoo | When it works, it works great. :) |
| 05:19.07 | fozzmoo | What video card? |
| 05:19.10 | QBFreak | let my try again, I thought I would rememeber the message :) |
| 05:19.24 | *** part/#utah linuxalien (n=linuxali@host-73.colo.spiretech.com) |
| 05:19.41 | QBFreak | nvidia GeForce FX 5200 |
| 05:19.50 | fozzmoo | Do you have the nvidia driver installed? |
| 05:19.55 | fozzmoo | Or are you using the stock driver? |
| 05:20.04 | QBFreak | stock |
| 05:20.14 | fozzmoo | Okay. you should get the nvidia driver installed. |
| 05:20.30 | QBFreak | I think....I can't recall now if I successfully got the nvidia driver installed or not |
| 05:20.38 | QBFreak | this is so sad, I should remember these things |
| 05:20.42 | fozzmoo | The livna repository has an excellent RPM of the nvidia driver and a kernel-module RPM |
| 05:21.04 | fozzmoo | That said, the FC5 out of the box kernel won't let you load "tainting" modules. |
| 05:21.34 | fozzmoo | So, you need to update to the newer kernel (available in updates) - kernel-2.6.16-1.2080_FC5 |
| 05:22.00 | QBFreak | can I just yum install kernel-2.6.16-1.2080_FC5? |
| 05:22.12 | fozzmoo | If you do a 'yum -y update' it will get it and install it. |
| 05:22.14 | fozzmoo | But, yeah. |
| 05:22.22 | *** join/#utah RyanE_ (n=ryan@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 05:22.44 | fozzmoo | Then, 'rpm -Uvh http://rpm.livna.org/livna-release-5.rpm' |
| 05:22.52 | fozzmoo | And then 'rpm --import http://rpm.livna.org/RPM-LIVNA-GPG-KEY' |
| 05:23.15 | findlay | ~dict lart |
| 05:23.25 | maquis | ~dict 2 lart |
| 05:23.31 | maquis | hmmm |
| 05:23.35 | findlay | heh |
| 05:23.44 | QBFreak | ~lart lart |
| 05:23.53 | maquis | that was worthy of two entries |
| 05:23.53 | fozzmoo | And then... 'yum -y install kmod-nvidia-1.0.8178-6' |
| 05:23.55 | levi | This is a very insightful blog entry on programming languages: http://osteele.com/archives/2006/02/stretch-languages |
| 05:26.45 | QBFreak | No Match for argument: kmod-nvidia-1.0.8178-6 |
| 05:27.05 | QBFreak | I imagine I could drop the version number couldn't I? |
| 05:27.37 | fozzmoo | You could use the whole schpeel: kmod-nvidia-1.0.8178-6.2.6.16_1.2080_FC5 |
| 05:28.14 | QBFreak | thats better, its downloading something now :) |
| 05:28.45 | QBFreak | FATAL: Module nvidia not found. |
| 05:28.53 | QBFreak | but it also says Complete! |
| 05:29.02 | fozzmoo | Yeah- now reboot into the updated kernel. |
| 05:29.12 | fozzmoo | The RPM also modified your /etc/X11/xorg.conf |
| 05:29.25 | fozzmoo | So you should just see the nvidia logo when you reboot. |
| 05:29.31 | QBFreak | ok, do I need to specify anything ot use the new kernel or should it be selected automatically? |
| 05:29.44 | fozzmoo | It should be the default kernel in grub. |
| 05:29.52 | fozzmoo | It should also be the top choice. |
| 05:31.05 | QBFreak | a side note here, every time I shut down it is unable to unmount my USB drive |
| 05:31.11 | QBFreak | I think due to the space in the volume label |
| 05:32.15 | fozzmoo | Could be. |
| 05:33.17 | QBFreak | so from here the system-config-display should work? |
| 05:33.29 | fozzmoo | I believe so. :) |
| 05:33.32 | QBFreak | I noticed the second display no longer has picture, I think thats a positive sign |
| 05:33.58 | fozzmoo | I can't remember if I ever used system-config-display to do the dual-head stuff. |
| 05:34.37 | fozzmoo | If it doesn't work, read the README file... do an 'rpm -qd xorg-x11-drv-nvidia' to find it. |
| 05:35.05 | fozzmoo | It'll tell you about the "TwinView" options you can put in your device section in /etc/X11/xorg.conf |
| 05:35.30 | QBFreak | rebooting, oops :) |
| 05:35.43 | QBFreak | I meant to just restart X, speaking of which, what is the recommended way to do that? |
| 05:36.06 | fozzmoo | CTRL+ALT+BKSP |
| 05:36.08 | QBFreak | I've been CTRL+ALT+BACKSPACE and then ALT+F1 to get a console, log in and startx |
| 05:36.38 | fozzmoo | Well, if you're in runlevel 5, X will just restart. |
| 05:36.56 | fozzmoo | You shoudln't have to run 'startx' |
| 05:37.16 | fozzmoo | Sometimes, I'll do a '/sbin/telinit 3; /sbin/telinit 5' to get X restarted. |
| 05:37.35 | QBFreak | ah |
| 05:37.45 | QBFreak | hmm, this is close to what I wanted |
| 05:38.22 | QBFreak | they're different sizes, so I don't want the taskbar or whatever spanning, but I'd like to be able to drag from one to the other |
| 05:38.51 | fozzmoo | Congrats. :) |
| 05:39.03 | QBFreak | thanks :) |
| 05:39.32 | QBFreak | I guess I can't use them as a contigious space without being the same dimensions? |
| 05:40.48 | fozzmoo | No, you can. |
| 05:41.10 | fozzmoo | You might have to delve into the xorg.conf to do it, tho, I can't remember. |
| 05:41.23 | QBFreak | I'll have to look around |
| 05:41.25 | fozzmoo | I helped one of my programmers set that up at the office. |
| 05:41.34 | fozzmoo | He's using a 17-inch LCD and 15-inch LCD. |
| 05:41.47 | QBFreak | yeah, when I was at Kodak I had a 17" LCD and a 15" CRT |
| 05:42.18 | fozzmoo | I haven't felt the need to go multi-monitor. Multiple desktops serve my needs. |
| 05:42.24 | QBFreak | I assume he could maximize an app to a single monitor? |
| 05:42.30 | fozzmoo | Yes. |
| 05:42.41 | QBFreak | I like to be able to lurk on the smaller display while I work on the larger :) |
| 05:42.53 | QBFreak | and being able to pull up two things maximized for comparison is always nice |
| 05:43.45 | fozzmoo | This is what I want: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824014105 |
| 05:43.47 | brac | [BenQ FP202W Black 20.1" 8ms Widescreen LCD Monitor - Retail at Newegg.com] |
| 05:44.18 | fozzmoo | Same resolution as my laptop screen. |
| 05:46.28 | QBFreak | I'll most likely go LCD if I have to replace one of my monitors, but I suspect I'll run these into the ground :) |
| 05:47.01 | QBFreak | well this sucks, I can't drag or create a new launcher on the second desktop |
| 05:47.12 | levi | I just use two computers. :) |
| 05:47.19 | fozzmoo | That's what I did when my big CRT died... I went for an LCD because I knew it was going to last forever. |
| 05:47.38 | fozzmoo | heh. I use many computer too- and KVM between them. :) |
| 05:47.47 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch@63-230-29-6.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 05:47.51 | QBFreak | I hardly ever play games, from what I've heard the biggest complaint in LCD is response times in some of them |
| 05:47.53 | fozzmoo | It's sick and wrong, I know. |
| 05:48.02 | QBFreak | KVMs are wonderful things |
| 05:48.06 | fozzmoo | QBFreak: Anything less than 16ms is fine for games. |
| 05:48.12 | levi | I bring my laptop to work, so I've got a Linux box and Windows box on KVM plus my iBook. |
| 05:48.30 | fozzmoo | My LCD is 20ms, and I don't notice any problems... but I'm not a big game player either. |
| 05:48.36 | fozzmoo | I watch a lot of movies on the screen, tho |
| 05:48.47 | QBFreak | I'd love to have a decent second computer, but they always cost money :) |
| 05:48.58 | fozzmoo | Not if you steal it. |
| 05:49.59 | findlay | DVDs are so low quality |
| 05:50.24 | fozzmoo | My how things have changed. :) |
| 05:50.25 | QBFreak | most of what I watch are TV shows on DVD |
| 05:50.31 | fozzmoo | QBFreak: Me too. |
| 05:50.46 | fozzmoo | Or I download them from online sites. |
| 05:50.51 | fozzmoo | The HD versions, of course. :) |
| 05:50.53 | findlay | DVDHD or DVD++ or whatever they call that riffraff are like $50 a disc |
| 05:50.55 | QBFreak | my idea of surround sound is turning on the stereo behind me :) |
| 05:51.05 | findlay | plus even more DRM crap |
| 05:51.39 | fozzmoo | findlay: We cracked CSS, we'll crack what comes next. |
| 05:52.12 | QBFreak | perhaps, but I do like to keep it legal... |
| 05:52.29 | fozzmoo | Sometimes laws are just stupid. |
| 05:52.37 | QBFreak | I didn't say it wasn't :) |
| 05:52.52 | fozzmoo | Laws that tell you what you can and can not do with something you own... that's just stupid. |
| 05:53.37 | fozzmoo | Orrin Hatch doesn't agree, tho. |
| 05:53.44 | QBFreak | heh |
| 05:54.48 | findlay | ~lart Orrin Hatch |
| 05:55.13 | QBFreak | arr, winxp has me spoiled, I keep expecting CTRL+<arrow> to take me to the next / in a url |
| 05:55.52 | fozzmoo | Does Firefox for Windows do that? |
| 05:56.13 | findlay | <ctrl>+direction usually maps to move in direction by words |
| 05:56.16 | QBFreak | I think windows actually handles that |
| 05:56.17 | QBFreak | correct |
| 05:56.47 | QBFreak | seems to be that works in explorer in XP but not 2K, I think its entirely a windows thing |
| 05:56.52 | levi | Nifty, I didn't realize Dylan had a method for creating limited types: http://www.gwydiondylan.org/books/drm/Limited_Types.html |
| 05:56.55 | findlay | works for me in kde and gnome, except it considers a URL string to be one word |
| 05:56.56 | QBFreak | but I have used it in FF |
| 05:57.00 | QBFreak | right |
| 05:57.08 | QBFreak | I keep expecting it to stop at each / :) |
| 05:57.32 | findlay | there's probably a way to change that somewhere buried in the source |
| 05:57.50 | QBFreak | I'm sure :) |
| 05:58.15 | fozzmoo | There might even be a KDE theme that does that. |
| 05:58.26 | QBFreak | the thing so far that I miss that I had in windows was the back button on my mouse |
| 05:58.48 | QBFreak | yeah, I keep forgetting to select KDE when I log in, in the past I had prefered it for one reason or another |
| 05:59.12 | fozzmoo | QBFreak: There will be a day, in the not too distant future, where you won't miss things from Windows, but you will miss things from Linux when you have to use Windows. |
| 05:59.23 | QBFreak | sounds like a good day |
| 05:59.26 | fozzmoo | You'll install cygwin and tweakui so you have have focus-under-mouse and stuff like that. |
| 05:59.32 | QBFreak | hehe |
| 05:59.45 | findlay | like windows' idiotic focus model |
| 06:00.05 | QBFreak | one thing that I definitly didn't like in windows was that you could not easilly resize console windows horizontally |
| 06:00.40 | QBFreak | its actually pretty nifty some of the things you can do in XP and 2K on the command line |
| 06:00.53 | fozzmoo | Yeah. |
| 06:00.56 | QBFreak | I did a pretty large automated system for some data conversions in batch files |
| 06:00.58 | fozzmoo | You can arrow up and stuff! :) |
| 06:01.01 | QBFreak | :p |
| 06:01.11 | QBFreak | for loops that use files as input, based on delimiters |
| 06:01.13 | QBFreak | soo nice |
| 06:01.21 | fozzmoo | I just install perl for windows. |
| 06:01.25 | QBFreak | yeah |
| 06:01.37 | QBFreak | I actually tried perl first |
| 06:01.42 | QBFreak | but I picked up the batch stuff faster |
| 06:01.54 | fozzmoo | huh. |
| 06:02.06 | findlay | I'm just spoiled by bash |
| 06:02.25 | findlay | windows command line is way more austere |
| 06:02.26 | QBFreak | yeah, it is quite nice |
| 06:02.44 | fozzmoo | I remember about 7 years ago- a coworker was asking me if there was any way to create an automated process on his Windows box that would take some application log files and copy them into another directory and date-stamp the filename... |
| 06:02.57 | QBFreak | at home when I needed the power of bash I would drag the data over to my server and do it there, connect iwth PuTTY |
| 06:02.59 | fozzmoo | Something he could run every day at the end of the day. |
| 06:03.10 | fozzmoo | I thought about doing a batch file for him... |
| 06:03.19 | fozzmoo | but cringed more and more as I thought about it. |
| 06:03.26 | fozzmoo | Perl did the job great. |
| 06:03.34 | QBFreak | date stamp the name? |
| 06:03.39 | fozzmoo | Yeah. |
| 06:03.56 | findlay | is windows command.com+batch scripting equivalent to a real shell? |
| 06:04.02 | QBFreak | can be done :) |
| 06:04.17 | QBFreak | its a bit different from bash, so I dunno |
| 06:04.21 | fozzmoo | I knew I could do it in a batch file... |
| 06:04.23 | QBFreak | and its cmd.exe that has the real power |
| 06:04.32 | findlay | oh |
| 06:04.38 | fozzmoo | but, ow, my had. |
| 06:04.39 | fozzmoo | head |
| 06:04.57 | fozzmoo | Plus, there's this feeling like I have to type in all caps. :) |
| 06:06.15 | QBFreak | something like... for /f %A in ('dir /ad /b path\to\logs\*.log') do ( move %A new\path\%DATE%-%A ) |
| 06:06.45 | QBFreak | the /f says loop through file, and then the single quotes say run a command as the file input |
| 06:06.47 | findlay | what language is batch scripting like? |
| 06:07.01 | QBFreak | crude shell scripts? |
| 06:07.15 | findlay | is it like basic at all? |
| 06:07.22 | QBFreak | not really |
| 06:08.00 | QBFreak | you really have to watch the if and for blocks, variables inside of them are typically only expanded when the block is initially read |
| 06:08.17 | QBFreak | there are some env settings to change that, then you use !var! instead of %var% to delay expansion |
| 06:09.01 | QBFreak | you can do functions (you call labels as if they were other batch files), but they can't return values |
| 06:09.16 | QBFreak | well, other than numeric |
| 06:09.21 | QBFreak | exit codes basically |
| 06:09.48 | fozzmoo | So it's really, really... hackish. :) |
| 06:09.57 | QBFreak | replacing substrings is crazy, set FOO=%FOO:BAR=BAZ% |
| 06:10.10 | QBFreak | yeah, it can be a mess sometimes :) |
| 06:10.55 | SpecialZ | Nice Windoze command that I used the other day to save me trouble, which I challenge you to find me a simple linux solution for: |
| 06:11.01 | QBFreak | but you can also do some weird path expansion stuff on call parameters, %~ne1 would give you the foo.txt out of blah/stuff/foo.txt |
| 06:11.08 | SpecialZ | gp* rename gp*.png |
| 06:11.15 | QBFreak | yeah, that is awesome |
| 06:11.35 | QBFreak | for i in `ls gp*`; do mv $i $i.png; done ? |
| 06:11.35 | maquis | -lart SpecialZ |
| 06:12.05 | QBFreak | and I suspect it was more like rename gp* gp*.png |
| 06:12.12 | SpecialZ | yeah |
| 06:12.31 | SpecialZ | I need to learn the syntax for those loops |
| 06:12.36 | QBFreak | for loops? |
| 06:12.44 | SpecialZ | yes |
| 06:12.44 | QBFreak | try for /? :) |
| 06:12.53 | QBFreak | although examples might make it easier |
| 06:13.20 | findlay | man, why is it always midnight when these guys start their insolent music? Why not noon when nobody's here? |
| 06:13.28 | QBFreak | for /f "tokens=1,3 delims=|" %A in (file.txt) do (echo %A %B ) |
| 06:13.47 | QBFreak | will give you words 1 and 3 of each line in file.txt, assuming the words are | seperated |
| 06:14.05 | QBFreak | note that withing a batch file you need to double up the % on the A, B etc |
| 06:14.11 | QBFreak | that is one crazy thing |
| 06:14.20 | SpecialZ | findlay: where do you live? |
| 06:14.36 | QBFreak | in a file it'd be for /f "tokens=1,3 delims=|" %%A in (file.txt) do (echo %%A %%B ) |
| 06:15.53 | QBFreak | if you need delayed expansion enabled at the top of the batch file use a setlocal (keeps the env clean that way anyway): setlocal enabledelayedexpansion |
| 06:16.08 | findlay | http://www.google.com/local?f=q&hl=en&q=&ll=40.255204,-111.665071&spn=0.002207,0.003659&t=h |
| 06:16.12 | QBFreak | there is also a switch to pass cmd.exe that will enable delayed expansion |
| 06:18.02 | QBFreak | I shall return, stuff to be done before bed and its a lot later than I thought |
| 06:18.52 | fozzmoo | Wha? The night is young! |
| 06:20.12 | QBFreak | 2:20am, and I've been trying to get up earlier |
| 06:20.34 | fozzmoo | Oh. it's only 0:20 here. |
| 06:21.10 | QBFreak | us silly east coast people rush around and get to midnight sooner than yuo :) |
| 06:21.51 | fozzmoo | Yeah! What's the rush anyway? |
| 06:21.55 | fozzmoo | That's dumb. |
| 06:22.05 | findlay | we're right behind you |
| 06:22.09 | findlay | about 2 hours |
| 06:22.16 | RyanE | EST always kills me. I tend to go to bed on MST, get up on EST... |
| 06:22.20 | findlay | just never can seem to keep up |
| 06:22.22 | RyanE | whenever I travel out there. |
| 06:23.04 | RyanE | so I tend to go to eastern clients with bloodshot eyes, and yawning a lot. |
| 06:23.25 | QBFreak | actually I think you all are just procrastinators |
| 06:23.34 | QBFreak | you put off time until later |
| 06:23.47 | RyanE | well, you got the *first* part right... |
| 06:24.05 | findlay | yeah, I can never seem to find where it had gone |
| 06:24.13 | QBFreak | its like "why have 2:00 when we can have 0:00?" |
| 06:24.35 | SpecialZ | findlay, just north of Macey's |
| 06:24.38 | findlay | in fact, I'll declare my own timezone |
| 06:24.44 | findlay | SpecialZ: yeah |
| 06:25.08 | SpecialZ | Do you know Joseph Olsen? |
| 06:25.20 | findlay | yup |
| 06:25.22 | SpecialZ | He was my folder buddy in Mens Chorus last year |
| 06:25.28 | findlay | cool |
| 06:25.43 | findlay | he's always borrowing my recordings (: |
| 06:25.49 | SpecialZ | of? |
| 06:25.54 | RyanE | Macey's in PG? |
| 06:26.00 | findlay | Haydn, Schumann |
| 06:26.11 | QBFreak | afaik the new world was discovered on the east coast, so as far as I'm concerned its the correct time :) |
| 06:26.19 | SpecialZ | I should borrow and *not* rip those. |
| 06:26.39 | RyanE | QBFreak: I'd be fine with that, I'm always going to bed and waking on EST, if I was on EST, I'd get to work on time every day. |
| 06:27.00 | findlay | one of these days I'm going to make a backup of all of my music on DVDRs, flac encoded |
| 06:27.14 | findlay | and leave a few copies in safe places |
| 06:27.38 | fozzmoo | ~dict FLAC |
| 06:27.45 | findlay | ~flac |
| 06:27.46 | ibot | methinks flac is the Free Lossless Audio Codec, gives 30-50% compression on PCM audio. See http://flac.sourceforge.net/ for details on the format, or apt-get install flac xmms-flac to try it out (if you have xmms, of course). |
| 06:27.48 | brac | [FLAC - Free Lossless Audio Codec] |
| 06:27.48 | QBFreak | RyanE: I know the feeling, I tend to wake up a little on the late side :) |
| 06:28.00 | QBFreak | ~aflac |
| 06:28.26 | findlay | isn't that car insurance? |
| 06:28.35 | RyanE | SpecialZ: you live by *which* Macy's? |
| 06:28.42 | fozzmoo | No, supplemental life and accident insurance. |
| 06:28.49 | fozzmoo | basically, a rip off. |
| 06:29.30 | findlay | accidental insurance? |
| 06:30.11 | SpecialZ | fozzmoo: I live by the Provo library. The google maps link posted by Findlay is the Provo Maceys and ?Brentwood? apartments just north. |
| 06:30.42 | maquis | -lart the computer curse |
| 06:31.24 | findlay | everybody, getting everybody else mixed up |
| 06:31.50 | fozzmoo | SpecialZ: I don't care. :) |
| 06:32.14 | fozzmoo | SpecialZ: But I think RyanE cares a little. |
| 06:32.14 | findlay | see? |
| 06:32.26 | RyanE | naw, not really. |
| 06:32.56 | fozzmoo | Oooh. yeah. |
| 06:33.11 | RyanE | I was just going to play the 'do you know' game again if someone lived by the PG Maceys. |
| 06:34.11 | maquis | trying to beat the project into submission |
| 06:35.07 | findlay | ~beat the project |
| 06:35.09 | ibot | ACTION beats the project with a wetfish |
| 06:35.34 | findlay | beater? isn't that Glamdring? |
| 06:37.54 | QBFreak | yay for cross-platform browsers |
| 06:38.03 | fozzmoo | QBFreak: Go to bed! |
| 06:38.08 | QBFreak | nooooo! |
| 06:38.12 | QBFreak | sleep is for the weak! |
| 06:38.19 | fozzmoo | But you wanted to get up earlier. |
| 06:38.37 | QBFreak | silly-speak! |
| 06:39.00 | QBFreak | besides, I have not checked my comics yet |
| 06:39.35 | findlay | QBFreak: which distro? |
| 06:39.52 | QBFreak | I'm running FC5 atm |
| 06:40.16 | QBFreak | mmm mouse focus is nice, I forgot how fun that power toy in windows was... |
| 06:42.20 | QBFreak | yeah, I still prefer alt-tab |
| 06:42.34 | QBFreak | but these are two seperate desktops atm, so it doesn't work too well |
| 06:42.37 | fozzmoo | s/floppy/sloppy/ |
| 06:43.19 | fozzmoo | I got spoiled on the sloppy focus stuff back when I was using legacy Unix systems in the early 90s. |
| 06:43.34 | QBFreak | what is that, exactly? |
| 06:43.38 | fozzmoo | SunOS, Ultrix, HPUX, SYSV, etc. |
| 06:43.47 | QBFreak | I mean sloppy focus :p |
| 06:43.53 | fozzmoo | It means the window under your mouse is in focus. |
| 06:44.03 | QBFreak | thats what I've got going right now |
| 06:44.06 | fozzmoo | It remains in focus until you hover over another window. |
| 06:44.14 | fozzmoo | Moving the mouse from a window to the desktop does not remove the window from focus. |
| 06:44.34 | fozzmoo | I still use ALT+TAB at times. |
| 06:44.37 | fozzmoo | It's nice to have both. |
| 06:44.59 | QBFreak | I prefer alt-tab really, I avoid the mouse when I can |
| 06:45.19 | fozzmoo | :) |
| 06:46.09 | QBFreak | less arm strain for me |
| 06:46.16 | QBFreak | and wrist and all that fun stuff |
| 06:46.29 | findlay | cursor focus reminds me of the high stress playing tetris while having the cursor in the way but you can't stop to move it |
| 06:47.19 | QBFreak | hehe |
| 06:53.38 | SpecialZ | There's 8 people of 16 here in our Senior Projects lab at almost 1 AM |
| 06:54.04 | QBFreak | 1 is not late :p |
| 06:54.51 | SpecialZ | yeah, but nobody was here at 10 all last week, iirc |
| 06:54.56 | QBFreak | heh |
| 07:32.02 | fozzmoo | Okay. I'm done. |
| 07:32.22 | *** part/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@166.70.238.250) |
| 12:08.41 | goozbach | --reply= is deprecated in the new version of cp!!!! |
| 12:08.41 | brac | okies! |
| 12:08.46 | goozbach | NOOOOOO! |
| 12:08.55 | goozbach | --reply= |
| 12:08.59 | goozbach | --reply |
| 12:09.18 | goozbach | hmm |
| 12:20.30 | goozbach | for more info on how to get around the problem see this thread: |
| 12:20.33 | goozbach | http://www.linux.net.nz/lists/NZLUG/2005/12/0045.html |
| 12:20.37 | brac | [NZLUG mailing list archive] |
| 12:20.49 | goozbach | hurray Google! |
| 12:30.58 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch@63-230-29-6.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 12:47.13 | goozbach | https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=188241 |
| 12:47.21 | goozbach | bugzilla++ |
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| 14:10.58 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 14:11.26 | goozbach | ohhh!!! |
| 14:12.34 | Jayce^ | even knowing the time difference, it's wierd seeing goozbach up at this time of day |
| 14:12.48 | goozbach | heh |
| 14:12.58 | goozbach | it's been killing me |
| 14:13.05 | goozbach | thank heavens for Mt Dew |
| 14:16.48 | graphyx | should we nick name that mormon coffee? |
| 14:21.05 | Jayce^ | ctrl-alt-del today is great |
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| 15:18.57 | sjansen | ~rlart |
| 15:19.41 | jnbek | ow o_O |
| 15:21.27 | ^Migs^ | j00 nub |
| 15:30.24 | jnbek | naww, just for all the rlart's etc, i think that's the first time i been on the recieving end :) |
| 15:37.36 | *** join/#utah phinux (n=phinux@iocane.cs.byu.edu) |
| 15:38.55 | graphyx | for rlarts, it's only a matter of time. |
| 15:39.44 | jnbek | hehe yep |
| 15:40.17 | sjansen | http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.emulators.xen.devel/22282 !!!! |
| 15:40.22 | graphyx | so if that was your first one, they you might just be a n00b on the channel. |
| 15:40.37 | sjansen | ~lart graphyx |
| 15:41.00 | graphyx | whereas larts are only a matter of verbosity. |
| 15:41.05 | graphyx | ~spell verbosity |
| 15:41.16 | sjansen | ~crush graphyx |
| 15:41.18 | ibot | ACTION crushes graphyx with a full height scsi disk |
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| 15:53.33 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 15:55.06 | elg | ~rlart |
| 15:56.12 | *** join/#utah {-} (n=sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 15:56.24 | {-} | ~lart NetworkManager |
| 16:01.58 | jsmith | {-}: FWIW, I've got it working nicely finally... |
| 16:02.35 | jsmith | {-}: 'course, this is on PPC hardware with the bcm43xx driver |
| 16:07.53 | {-} | And WEP? |
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| 16:24.25 | sjansen | ~lart Utah Power |
| 16:31.40 | tensai | utah power is now owned by warren buffett |
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| 16:54.37 | levi | Good morning, #utah |
| 16:59.08 | ^Migs^ | Greetings, levi!!!!!!!!! |
| 16:59.25 | levi | Um, hi, ^Migs^ |
| 16:59.40 | ^Migs^ | HOW ARE YOU THIS FINE DAY? |
| 16:59.44 | JoshH | hello gentlemen |
| 17:01.31 | levi | I am tired, but otherwise well. |
| 17:02.07 | JoshH | same |
| 17:03.08 | ^Migs^ | I was up until 1:00 last night |
| 17:06.28 | SpecialZ | I was up past 4 |
| 17:06.44 | SpecialZ | and got to work at 9 |
| 17:06.56 | ^Migs^ | I got to work at 7 |
| 17:11.31 | JoshH | i was up till 1 as well, and got to work at 9 |
| 17:11.48 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch@66.239.25.80.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 17:11.48 | JoshH | but i'm still tired |
| 17:11.57 | JoshH | well actually not really anymore |
| 17:12.09 | *** part/#utah phinux (n=phinux@iocane.cs.byu.edu) |
| 17:13.37 | *** join/#utah phinux (n=phinux@iocane.cs.byu.edu) |
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| 17:30.11 | ^Migs^ | is it possible to set up multiple FTP accounts in godaddy? |
| 17:30.30 | ^Migs^ | I can't figure out how to. I'm not pleased with godaddy at all. |
| 17:32.33 | linuxalien | I have GoDaddy |
| 17:32.41 | linuxalien | Not sure how to set it up. My |
| 17:32.45 | linuxalien | I'll try when I have time |
| 17:32.54 | ^Migs^ | it doesn't allow SSH, does it? |
| 17:33.55 | linuxalien | Hmmm good question. Mine has a thing where I can set up an SSL thing. Not sure if that's used for SSH or not. They do have phone support you can call I think. |
| 17:34.35 | ^Migs^ | yes, but it's not toll free |
| 17:36.29 | JoshH | time to switch to someone better imo |
| 17:36.36 | ^Migs^ | yeah |
| 17:36.39 | linuxalien | Oh ok. I didn't know that. |
| 17:36.55 | ^Migs^ | I'll probably try dreamhost |
| 17:37.29 | linuxalien | made2own.com is alright too. |
| 17:47.36 | harleypig | It seems to run in the family: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/03/28/tuttle_london/ |
| 17:47.38 | brac | [Linux conquered, Tuttle man takes on London | The Register] |
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| 18:07.08 | ^Migs^ | http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060407.wxstarwars07/BNStory/National/home |
| 18:07.10 | brac | [globeandmail.com : 'Star Wars Kid' cuts a deal with his tormentors] |
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| 18:44.48 | QBFreak | arrr |
| 18:44.52 | QBFreak | korganizer is being mean |
| 18:47.16 | Jayce^ | send in the resume's |
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| 19:06.17 | elg | ok, that was wierd. I was just with a EE professor and we were trying to get some code working |
| 19:07.09 | elg | we had some very strange problems. short foo[2]; short *p; (those were global. later, in a function) p = foo; (result, p = 0x0 still!) |
| 19:08.26 | jsmith | Strange... |
| 19:13.30 | elg | yeah. still haven't figured it out |
| 19:13.48 | elg | i think it's xcode's fault, so he emailed me the code and I'm going to try it by hand and in my xcode |
| 19:14.01 | elg | but we built clean a thousand times, and it was not fancy code |
| 19:17.08 | jsmith | That's frustrating. |
| 19:17.38 | elg | on the topic of strange things |
| 19:17.56 | *** join/#utah spr (n=spr@ramona.cs.byu.edu) |
| 19:20.52 | vontrapp | hmm, something weird |
| 19:21.49 | vontrapp | my roommate, when he tries to log into any secure site, get an error: error establishing encrypted connection, code: -8505 |
| 19:22.02 | vontrapp | using firefox in windows |
| 19:22.08 | vontrapp | anyone see anything like this before? |
| 19:22.25 | elg | the computer world is revolting! |
| 19:22.50 | graphyx | It's the lawnmover man. |
| 19:22.55 | graphyx | He has come back finally. |
| 19:23.08 | tensai | hurry, shut down skynet |
| 19:23.15 | graphyx | exactly. |
| 19:27.48 | findlay | precicely. |
| 19:27.55 | findlay | s/c/s/ |
| 19:28.04 | findlay | ibot: you got it all wrong |
| 19:30.27 | graphyx | ibot findlay means s/cic/cis/ |
| 19:30.54 | findlay | ~spell supercilliousness |
| 19:45.58 | mheath | ~seen xbmodder |
| 19:46.07 | ibot | xbmodder <n=xbmodder@dsl092-012-130.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #utah, 36d 22h 2m 50s ago, saying: 'Atarack.com is a VPS provider'. |
| 19:46.15 | mheath | ~seen xbmodder_lappy |
| 19:46.17 | ibot | xbmodder_lappy <i=nobody@xbmodder.us> was last seen on IRC in channel #utah, 1d 12h 17s ago, saying: 'Is there like a function "HOW MUCH MORE THAN 0"'. |
| 19:46.37 | mheath | ~seen xbmodder1 |
| 19:46.39 | ibot | xbmodder1 <n=xbmodder@dsl092-012-130.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #utah, 2d 22h 53m 58s ago, saying: 'hey'. |
| 19:48.28 | findlay | ~seen ~ |
| 19:48.31 | ibot | findlay: i haven't seen '~' |
| 19:48.51 | graphyx | ~seen xbmodder_treo |
| 19:48.53 | ibot | i haven't seen 'xbmodder_treo', graphyx |
| 19:48.55 | graphyx | don't forget that one. |
| 19:49.06 | graphyx | ~seen xbmodder-treo |
| 19:49.07 | ibot | xbmodder-treo <n=upirc@001-787-304.area1.spcsdns.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #utah, 58d 2h 31m 49s ago, saying: 'regular army fighting our forces that we could send tanks to blow up.'. |
| 19:55.37 | levi | Woo, nice bike ride today. |
| 19:58.55 | obfuscated | anyone know aaron barlow? |
| 20:01.35 | mheath | Heh, wonder if he's related to my prom date... |
| 20:06.20 | *** part/#utah graphyx (n=mkling@12.174.37.165) |
| 20:09.19 | mheath | agghh! |
| 20:09.25 | mheath | They didn't....why did they do that?! |
| 20:09.40 | mheath | ~lart Weber County School District network techs |
| 20:12.38 | *** join/#utah ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 20:12.38 | *** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See openclue.org/ut, sllug.org, uphpu.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com, utaug.org || Tickets/Info for X-Men 3 coming soon || goozbach now has his own banana republic |
| 20:12.38 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 20:13.24 | mheath | ~lart Weber County School District network techs |
| 20:13.46 | levi | mheath: Why did you store your stuff in his account? |
| 20:14.03 | mheath | levi.... |
| 20:14.05 | mheath | <--- Mike |
| 20:14.09 | mheath | Mike Heath |
| 20:14.14 | levi | Oh, yes. |
| 20:14.28 | mheath | I can't even comprehend why they would do this |
| 20:14.32 | mheath | and delete EVERYTHING |
| 20:14.35 | mheath | agh! |
| 20:14.36 | levi | Well, confusion abounds when you refer to yourself in the third person. |
| 20:15.24 | levi | That really sucks, though. |
| 20:16.14 | levi | You're going to be off in the Marines in a short while, though, and you'll have other things to worry about. |
| 20:16.57 | mheath | I know |
| 20:16.59 | ^Migs^ | wait |
| 20:17.15 | ^Migs^ | what's happened with the weber county school district techs? I'm a weber county school district tech. |
| 20:17.26 | mheath | ^Migs^, Really? |
| 20:17.28 | findlay | ~undelete mheath |
| 20:17.28 | ibot | findlay: that factoid was not backedup :/ |
| 20:17.28 | ^Migs^ | yes, I am |
| 20:17.32 | levi | ^Migs^: They deleted all his files. |
| 20:17.37 | mheath | ^Migs^, Yeah |
| 20:17.42 | ^Migs^ | where did you have them stored? |
| 20:17.49 | mheath | H:\ novell share. |
| 20:17.56 | ^Migs^ | do you know what happened? |
| 20:17.57 | mheath | I was having trouble running a typing program in my Computer Tech class |
| 20:18.00 | ^Migs^ | was there a notice or something? |
| 20:18.06 | mheath | So the teacher calls it in |
| 20:18.09 | mheath | They try something, doesn't work |
| 20:18.11 | mheath | so she calls again |
| 20:18.12 | ^Migs^ | or they were just mysteriously deleted? |
| 20:18.24 | mheath | I came and found my password reset, account remade, and files missing |
| 20:18.46 | ^Migs^ | uh oh, I think I might've done that |
| 20:18.56 | ^Migs^ | I'm kidding |
| 20:19.13 | ^Migs^ | which class was this for? Which school? |
| 20:19.13 | mheath | about having done it, or also about working for Weber County? =P |
| 20:19.19 | ^Migs^ | about having done it |
| 20:19.24 | ^Migs^ | I'm the webmaster for the weber school district |
| 20:19.37 | ^Migs^ | I'll find out about it |
| 20:19.55 | ^Migs^ | the guy I need to ask is, uh, playing ping pong now, but when he's done I'll ask him |
| 20:20.06 | mheath | ^Migs^, Heh, Computer Tech, Bonneville High School |
| 20:20.16 | levi | Sounds like a tight ship you guys run there. :P |
| 20:20.27 | ^Migs^ | yeah, we take a no-nonsense approach to ping-pong |
| 20:20.42 | ^Migs^ | probably not. I never get out. |
| 20:20.48 | ^Migs^ | they keep me locked in here |
| 20:20.55 | mheath | Ah. Then I can feel free to rant about how bad a job the other techs do at imaging our machines |
| 20:20.58 | ^Migs^ | what's your name? |
| 20:21.08 | ^Migs^ | hahaha |
| 20:21.14 | ^Migs^ | rant all you want, I'll pass it along |
| 20:21.18 | mheath | ^Migs^, Mike Heath. |
| 20:21.22 | mheath | Heh, they just fixed all the problems actually |
| 20:21.30 | mheath | My comp programming / web design lab.... |
| 20:21.34 | mheath | used to take 20 minutes to log in |
| 20:21.50 | mheath | Took them like 8 months to reimage them |
| 20:22.04 | ^Migs^ | there's only a few techs trying to handle all the 50-something schools in the district at the same time |
| 20:22.05 | ^Migs^ | go easy on them |
| 20:22.21 | ^Migs^ | often it's a problem with people not reporting problems, too |
| 20:22.28 | mheath | ^Migs^, I know. But when 1/4 of your class period is spent logging in, and the machines all randomly reboot when you're in the middle of working on things... |
| 20:22.31 | mheath | Thats kinda rediculous. |
| 20:22.36 | ^Migs^ | just because you complain to your teacher doesn't mean the teacher complains to us |
| 20:22.39 | mheath | That happened to a lot of people |
| 20:22.57 | mheath | Entire periods wasted because you'd log in, it'd kick you out, and you've have to spend another 20 minutes waiting for it to turn on again and log you in |
| 20:23.23 | mheath | I think my teacher eventually went to the administration with an official complaint, finally got the techs to spend more time on it. It was rediculous. |
| 20:23.40 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 20:23.41 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 20:23.58 | ^Migs^ | I believe that's what you have to do anyway. |
| 20:24.13 | mheath | ^Migs^, You admin wsdstaff too? |
| 20:24.16 | ^Migs^ | that way, we can document the errors. And I think the teachers are supposed to know that |
| 20:24.23 | ^Migs^ | no, that's the guy who's playing ping pong |
| 20:24.45 | mheath | ^Migs^, you know Aaron Brough? |
| 20:25.03 | mheath | Teacher and BHS |
| 20:25.06 | mheath | *at BHS |
| 20:25.10 | ^Migs^ | I don't know many of the teachers |
| 20:25.12 | ^Migs^ | like I said, I don't get out |
| 20:25.19 | ^Migs^ | I just sit here being awesome and making web sites |
| 20:25.38 | mheath | ^Migs^, Heh. Well I guess he was talking to someone else..... |
| 20:25.46 | mheath | I uncovered a minor security flaw in the CMS on the new website |
| 20:26.04 | ^Migs^ | the CMS they use is riddled with flaws. It's Postnuke. |
| 20:26.09 | ^Migs^ | not my choice. It was here when I started working here. |
| 20:26.18 | mheath | ^Migs^, There was a test/test account that could post articles :) |
| 20:26.20 | ^Migs^ | and now too much time has been invested in it to switch away from something else |
| 20:26.24 | ^Migs^ | haha, I remember that |
| 20:26.45 | ^Migs^ | that was the admin account. The guy before me was an idiot who left to found a web company. |
| 20:28.02 | mheath | wsdstaff had some vulnerabilities (particularly because they were letting students run PHP on it, from the web dev classes) too |
| 20:28.03 | ^Migs^ | we have two web developers here |
| 20:28.18 | mheath | RUnning some ancient release of redhat at the time |
| 20:28.25 | mheath | default php configs and the like |
| 20:28.28 | ^Migs^ | security flaws are usually patched up quickly when the techs are made aware of them |
| 20:28.49 | ^Migs^ | yeah, Alex is a network guy, not a web developer |
| 20:28.58 | ^Migs^ | Alex = ping pong guy |
| 20:29.19 | mheath | Our tax dollars at use! :) |
| 20:29.25 | ^Migs^ | it's his lunch break |
| 20:29.30 | mheath | Ah! |
| 20:29.37 | ^Migs^ | so LAY OFF |
| 20:29.45 | ^Migs^ | or we'll stab you in the face through your computer screen |
| 20:30.08 | mheath | ~lart Novell |
| 20:30.13 | ^Migs^ | anyway, I'll pass along this info. I'm not sure it can be fixed, but I'll let them know you're pissed |
| 20:30.17 | ^Migs^ | it probably happened to others, too |
| 20:30.29 | mheath | Took me forever to remember my password |
| 20:30.30 | ^Migs^ | the other day things were messed up all over the place |
| 20:30.42 | ^Migs^ | that may have been when it happened |
| 20:30.53 | mheath | ^Migs^, no, this morning |
| 20:30.58 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@hfugal.NMSU.Edu) |
| 20:31.24 | elg | ah-ha! The problem we were having was a global that should have been an extern in the header. |
| 20:31.38 | mheath | ^Migs^, you work at the "Call Center"? |
| 20:31.44 | elg | I guess xcode has this "zero-link" thing that does some sort of just-in-time linking or something, and so the linker wasn't complaining about it (until I disabled this zero link feature) |
| 20:32.01 | levi | Whoops! |
| 20:32.17 | ^Migs^ | um |
| 20:32.22 | ^Migs^ | Tech Services building |
| 20:32.30 | ^Migs^ | the help desk is here, if that's what you mean |
| 20:32.45 | ^Migs^ | the district office is in South Ogden, though, by the Ogden Regional hospital |
| 20:32.50 | mheath | We have a tech services building? |
| 20:32.56 | mheath | With ping pong?! |
| 20:33.03 | levi | elg: I had some interesting issues with the nios2 port of gcc and linking globals. |
| 20:33.13 | mheath | you know, I'm looking for a job........... ;-P |
| 20:34.09 | ^Migs^ | we have some high school kids working here, actually |
| 20:34.13 | ^Migs^ | doing odd jobs here and there |
| 20:34.30 | levi | elg: I forget the gritty details, but the gist of it was non-externed globals wouldn't link properly unless I used -G0 |
| 20:34.55 | levi | elg: It was a problem with the gcc port, though. Pretty darned annoying. |
| 20:35.08 | ^Migs^ | you know, the grunt work |
| 20:35.55 | ^Migs^ | but we have a zero-tolerance policy for slacking off |
| 20:36.20 | mheath | ^Migs^, Heh, any chance I could get a job? Work exxperience in computer repair+sales, skilled programmer (college and real world experience) in Java, sys admin, etc... |
| 20:36.22 | ^Migs^ | are you graduating this year? |
| 20:36.28 | mheath | Yes indeed. |
| 20:36.32 | ^Migs^ | how much in Java? |
| 20:36.41 | mheath | Actually, what I'm looking for is something that will give me a good job for a while |
| 20:36.50 | mheath | I'll be gone in a few months, but I'm tiring of my current job =\ |
| 20:37.19 | mheath | ^Migs^, two years experience, 8 college hours in classes. |
| 20:37.37 | ^Migs^ | okay slow down. I don't want a better Java developer than me encroaching on my turf |
| 20:37.43 | ^Migs^ | hehe |
| 20:37.56 | elg | levi: fun |
| 20:37.56 | mheath | Haha. |
| 20:37.58 | ^Migs^ | I was hired to maintain the web site, but we're also doing a portal so I've been learning Java. |
| 20:38.12 | mheath | JSPs, servlets? |
| 20:38.45 | ^Migs^ | yes |
| 20:38.50 | ^Migs^ | http://www.wsdinfo.net |
| 20:39.12 | levi | elg: Oh, let me tell you, getting the build environment set up was /loads/ of fun. |
| 20:39.23 | levi | elg: It's working pretty well now, though. |
| 20:39.27 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@dhcp145.openinternet.gurulabs.com) |
| 20:39.31 | mheath | I dunno, Seriously, though...if I could find a decent job for the next 80-100 days, I'd love that. |
| 20:39.53 | ^Migs^ | mheath: The guy says it has nothing to do with us |
| 20:40.23 | ^Migs^ | it's something that happened locally |
| 20:40.32 | mheath | ^Migs^, I know it was some tech. Oh well... |
| 20:40.33 | ^Migs^ | so someone at Bonneville High messed up. You can call the Call Center |
| 20:41.18 | mheath | ^Migs^, we dropping edline? |
| 20:41.21 | ^Migs^ | YES |
| 20:41.25 | mheath | thank god |
| 20:41.26 | ^Migs^ | and ESEOP eventually |
| 20:41.29 | ^Migs^ | the portal will handle everything |
| 20:41.35 | mheath | ~lart edline |
| 20:41.39 | ^Migs^ | anyway, you should open a call for the problem you had |
| 20:41.46 | ^Migs^ | there's no reason for you to lose all your data |
| 20:42.16 | mheath | well, let me take look around on Monday first |
| 20:42.25 | mheath | I just logged in, poked around for a second before I had to leave |
| 20:42.40 | mheath | stuff wasn't showing up, but maybe something wasn't working right at the moment |
| 20:42.44 | mheath | Or maybe they were still moving stuff around |
| 20:42.50 | mheath | As I said, they obviously recreated my account |
| 20:43.23 | mheath | *sigh* I just really wish I could find a job.... |
| 20:43.28 | mheath | Not happy with working at Applebees =P |
| 20:43.34 | ^Migs^ | I'm not sure we're looking for anyone right now here |
| 20:43.48 | mheath | I'll probably be gone in 82 days anyway. |
| 20:43.58 | mheath | 98 days at the most. |
| 20:44.03 | ^Migs^ | you could try accelerating your way to a bachelor's through a local ATC, mheath |
| 20:44.45 | ^Migs^ | some of the high school kids we hired before have been extremely unreliable and uncommitted |
| 20:45.24 | mheath | ^Migs^, I've already got quite a few hours towards my college degree |
| 20:45.34 | mheath | Again, I'll be gone in 82 days. Down in San Diego = |
| 20:45.34 | ^Migs^ | keep at it |
| 20:45.35 | mheath | =\ |
| 20:45.46 | ^Migs^ | this is a great place to work, although if you want to make money, go for the commercial sector |
| 20:45.50 | ^Migs^ | why San Diego? |
| 20:46.18 | ^Migs^ | mission? |
| 20:46.25 | mheath | ^Migs^, United States Marine Corp Basic Training. |
| 20:46.27 | mheath | Boot camp. |
| 20:46.30 | ^Migs^ | nice |
| 20:46.49 | ^Migs^ | can I ask why? |
| 20:47.11 | *** join/#utah dilvie (n=dilvie@c-67-161-253-245.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 20:47.18 | mheath | Heh, not something that I can really explain, or that you'd likely understand, appreciate, or tolerate if I told you. |
| 20:47.37 | ^Migs^ | I was just curious. I think it's a great idea for anyone to joined the armed services. |
| 20:47.54 | ^Migs^ | just wondering what your rationale for joining it was, since everybody seems to have a different reason for doing so. |
| 20:48.11 | dilvie | hello |
| 20:48.14 | dilvie | =) |
| 20:48.17 | ^Migs^ | GREETINGS dilvie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 20:48.41 | dilvie | ^Migs^: I don't have any cake. |
| 20:48.56 | ^Migs^ | how dare you |
| 20:49.27 | dilvie | heheh |
| 20:49.39 | ^Migs^ | mheath: What did this tech look like? |
| 20:49.43 | dilvie | sorry if that puts a damper on your enthusiasm to see me |
| 20:53.11 | mheath | ^Migs^, I didn't see them. I told you, it was a problem I had running a program required for a particular class. My teacher called it in, and they apparently remade my account to correct the problem. Or try to. |
| 20:53.23 | mheath | It was weird. The program was erroring for me and only me, on every machine |
| 20:53.32 | ^Migs^ | hmmm |
| 20:53.33 | ^Migs^ | call it in |
| 20:53.56 | ^Migs^ | there's no reason your files shouldn't have been deleted |
| 20:54.00 | ^Migs^ | *should've |
| 20:58.41 | findlay | is there a way to use rsync to only sync files that match a pattern? |
| 20:59.08 | elg | yup |
| 20:59.52 | findlay | there's a way to exclude files whose filenames match a pattern and a way to include files from the exclude pattern, but I don't see any way to only sync files whose names match PATTERN |
| 21:00.18 | elg | how is that different from the include files/ |
| 21:00.41 | elg | as in --include=PATTERN |
| 21:01.07 | findlay | elg: from how I understand it the include includes files that otherwise would have been excluded by an --exclude option |
| 21:01.13 | findlay | but I could be wrong |
| 21:01.41 | *** join/#utah bonez39 (n=bonez@drjones.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 21:01.53 | findlay | --include=PATTERN don’t exclude files matching PATTERN |
| 21:01.59 | elg | so exclude everything and include what you want |
| 21:02.09 | findlay | so I don't see how that could mean include only |
| 21:02.43 | findlay | doesn't seem too elegant (: |
| 21:03.18 | elg | well both exclude and include are syntactic sugar for --filter |
| 21:05.31 | findlay | I see |
| 21:06.01 | findlay | is there a way to have rsync only print out the files that were updated instead of every file? |
| 21:06.15 | elg | dunno |
| 21:07.09 | findlay | it's hard to see what happened to a few interesting files in a torrent of 826 |
| 21:12.52 | findlay | I'll get something figured out eventually |
| 21:13.09 | findlay | I guess |
| 21:16.51 | spr | how does one do the cpan equivelent for ruby? |
| 21:16.55 | sjansen | ~congratulate herlo |
| 21:16.59 | ibot | ACTION congratulates herlo on being a new owner of a $500 brick. |
| 21:17.16 | sjansen | spr: gems? |
| 21:20.01 | lars-ut | ~emulate Ms Bitters |
| 21:20.02 | ibot | There's a pigeon on your head! You've got head pigeons! Get to the nurse before they spread to the other children! |
| 21:23.10 | sjansen | ~ms bitters |
| 21:26.20 | sjansen | ~rlart |
| 21:39.17 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch@66.239.25.80.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 21:39.25 | sjansen | "Never put off until tomorrow what you do the day after tomorrow." |
| 21:40.23 | sjansen | -- Mark Twain |
| 22:29.12 | mheath | Wow |
| 22:29.22 | mheath | My friend is trying out Windows Vista |
| 22:29.31 | mheath | It's using 526MB of RAM at idle |
| 22:29.39 | mheath | no applications or anything running, 526MB of RAM used |
| 22:29.49 | mheath | Thats with some stuff disabled |
| 22:30.06 | mheath | You enable its multimedia extensions (Windows Media Player 11), jumps it up to 800MB of RAM used. |
| 22:31.46 | levi | Yow. |
| 22:31.55 | levi | It probably has debugging overhead in it, but still. |
| 22:34.03 | mheath | levi, No, official preview release |
| 22:34.07 | mheath | MSDN available beta |
| 22:34.49 | levi | It still may have debugging info in it, since it's a developer preview. |
| 22:35.07 | levi | The Apple developer network preview OS releases were like that. |
| 22:35.39 | levi | I had access to some MSDN stuff a few years ago, but I didn't pay attention to whether they had debug overhead in them or not. |
| 22:36.01 | mheath | I don't think .NET stuff debugs in the traditional sense, though |
| 22:36.10 | mheath | Isn't Vista supposed to be extremely .NET centric? |
| 22:36.17 | levi | Actually, it's not. |
| 22:36.18 | tensai | symbols are symbols, they have to be stored somewhere |
| 22:36.29 | levi | It was supposed to be, but it isn't. |
| 22:36.44 | mheath | 526 at idle... |
| 22:36.46 | tensai | but Vista has WinFS, right?!? |
| 22:36.51 | mheath | jeez, I don't even have a comp with 526MB of RAM |
| 22:36.52 | tensai | :) |
| 22:36.53 | levi | The .NET runtime is probably installed and active. |
| 22:37.03 | levi | tensai: It does, but not too many OS components actually use it. |
| 22:37.22 | tensai | levi: I thought they pulled it |
| 22:37.45 | levi | Maybe they did, but last I heard it was in there. |
| 22:38.06 | levi | Oh, WinFS, the filesystem. |
| 22:38.22 | levi | Sorry, I thought you meant the new name for the .NET runtime. |
| 22:38.31 | levi | Yeah, the fancy filesystem is gone. |
| 22:39.46 | levi | WinFX is the 'next generation managed APIs' |
| 22:40.48 | levi | The MSDN pages still talk about WinFS, but I'm pretty sure it won't be in the first Vista release. |
| 22:41.22 | tensai | yeah, WinFS is definitely pulled |
| 22:42.45 | tensai | "The WinFS team has been making great progress and the new storage system will be in beta testing when the Longhorn client becomes available." |
| 22:52.07 | findlay | heh, hopefully it won't be as notoriously fragmenting as FAT descended NTFS |
| 22:52.57 | levi | Apparently it runs on top of NTFS, unless the blurb on MSDN was misleading. |
| 22:57.25 | *** join/#utah phinux (n=jamie@c-24-10-237-226.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 22:57.45 | *** part/#utah HIG (n=hig@c-67-164-250-182.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 23:05.54 | elg | hey maquis, backpack is adding a calendar |
| 23:06.01 | elg | that might turn out pretty good for you |
| 23:06.45 | *** part/#utah phinux (n=jamie@c-24-10-237-226.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 23:06.57 | findlay | ~backpack |
| 23:08.56 | levi | 'Windows Vista Capable' system requirements: 512MB RAM, Direct X 9 video |
| 23:09.09 | elg | ~backpack is a nifty web 2.0 free organizational tool |
| 23:09.11 | ibot | elg: okay |
| 23:09.20 | elg | ~backpack is also http://backpackit.com/ |
| 23:09.22 | ibot | elg: okay |
| 23:09.22 | brac | [Personal and small business information manager: Get organized, Backpack] |
| 23:09.36 | levi | 'Windows Vista Ready (basic tier)' requirements: 512MB req. 1Gb rec., DirectX 9L video |
| 23:09.42 | bonez39 | anyone else having trouble running gtk-gnutella? |
| 23:09.57 | elg | i only tried it once ages ago and it didn't work well then |
| 23:10.00 | elg | I used mutella |
| 23:10.08 | harleypig | I finally took the time to get irssi proxy working ... much *MUCH* easier than I expected! |
| 23:10.11 | harleypig | Cool. |
| 23:10.12 | elg | not as point-and-click as gtk-gnutella, but works well |
| 23:10.15 | bonez39 | mutella.....a twist on the utella suffice.. |
| 23:10.32 | levi | 'Windows Vista Compliant (premium tier)' requirements: 1Gb req., 2Gb rec., DirectX 9L w/Pixel Shader 2.0 video, 128Mb VRAM |
| 23:11.07 | bonez39 | elg, do you use it often or just once in a while/ |
| 23:11.18 | elg | only occasionally |
| 23:12.10 | findlay | harleypig: what's an irssi proxy? |
| 23:13.04 | harleypig | it's an irssi session that allows incoming connections from multiple clients. That way I can run gaim or xchat or whatever from my desktop, |
| 23:13.20 | harleypig | and connect or disconnect from my server irssi session. |
| 23:13.20 | findlay | cool |
| 23:13.29 | bonez39 | elg, I ran apt-get install mutella....then typed 'mutella' at prompt...nothing loads.. |
| 23:13.52 | findlay | harleypig: that's way cool |
| 23:13.54 | bonez39 | elg, is it run from a terminal window? |
| 23:13.57 | findlay | (: |
| 23:14.03 | elg | yes |
| 23:14.10 | harleypig | yeah. This way, I can setup cgi:irc for when I don't have access to my normal setup, but still connect through my server side irssi conneciton. |
| 23:15.27 | findlay | harleypig: even better (: |
| 23:16.37 | harleypig | If I get around to it, I can even script it so that people can send me an sms through irc or aim (or ...) and I don't have to worry about handling the protocols. |
| 23:18.02 | bonez39 | elg, ok, I get it..text based....how would i find, for example....a tune by jazz singer..Stacey Kent.... ? invoke mutella and then at prompt...what woudl I type to search for songs by Ms. Kent? |
| 23:18.17 | elg | help |
| 23:19.36 | bonez39 | elg, ok, a bit of a learning curve here |
| 23:20.50 | *** join/#utah Hhhhh (n=Hhhhhhhh@158.91.201.220) |
| 23:22.26 | bonez39 | IMPORTANT EVENT: |
| 23:22.27 | bonez39 | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:22.41 | bonez39 | I am not connected. right? |
| 23:24.19 | elg | yeah |
| 23:31.31 | *** part/#utah harleypig (n=harleypi@harleypigprogramming.com) |
| 23:31.57 | goozbach | ok so I quite literally don't know what to do with myself |
| 23:32.31 | goozbach | friday afternoon and I am not rushing off tot the airport |
| 23:34.49 | maquis | http://www.thedailywtf.com <-- good today! :) |
| 23:35.07 | maquis | goozbach: you obviously need some homework |
| 23:36.20 | maquis | ~spell egregrious |
| 23:36.32 | maquis | ~dict egregious |
| 23:39.11 | elg | fri afternoon? isn't it like 7pm there? |
| 23:40.04 | goozbach | well yes |
| 23:40.28 | goozbach | but its still not an airport |
| 23:41.13 | goozbach | heh I've been sitting in this hammock for over two hours |
| 23:42.25 | *** part/#utah bertbob (n=bertbob@c-67-166-126-128.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 23:45.05 | elg | -lart goozbach |
| 23:45.32 | maquis | goozbach: i want a hammock! |
| 23:54.10 | *** join/#utah bertbob (n=bertbob@c-67-166-126-128.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
