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| 00:25.59 | elg | what the... since when did -8 % 8 == -8? |
| 00:29.37 | findlay | ~when |
| 00:30.07 | jsmith | elg: Sounds like a bug to me |
| 00:30.15 | elg | let me rephrase. -8 % 8 = 0 even here. but -8 % 10 is giving me -8 |
| 00:30.33 | elg | it should be 2 or I'm a monkey's uncle |
| 00:30.39 | jsmith | No, it should be -8 |
| 00:30.52 | jsmith | Divide -8 by 10, and you get a remainder of -8 |
| 00:31.13 | maquis | jsmith has a point, i think |
| 00:31.44 | elg | well that's a different modular arithmetic than what I was taught |
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| 00:32.22 | elg | in my book, -2 = 1 mod 3 |
| 00:32.39 | maquis | elg: i've never tried figuring out how it would be, but if you did -18%10 with long arithmetic, i think you'd get -1 R -8 |
| 00:34.12 | elg | well anyway, since C isn't going to change to be more helpful, I guess I just have to make positive the result after modding |
| 00:35.21 | findlay | just multiply by zero. That will fix everything |
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| 01:01.00 | vontrapp | arg, i changed the address of my mythtv main backend, and now none of my recordings show up |
| 01:02.24 | maquis | -lart roommates |
| 01:02.34 | ScytheBlade1 | Ouch |
| 01:07.36 | ScytheBlade1 | That's harsh, even for roommates |
| 01:16.49 | Lone_Wanderer | What'd they do, maquis? |
| 01:20.21 | findlay | ~haha maquis' roomates |
| 01:20.23 | ibot | ACTION beats maquis' roomates about the head with the ha ha bat |
| 01:25.53 | nick125 | '/wi3 |
| 01:25.54 | nick125 | err |
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| 01:48.37 | maquis | Lone_Wanderer: well... a couple weeks ago, they blew up a candle on the stove... and since then, we haven't been able to use the oven, because it fills the apartment with smoke |
| 01:50.36 | ScytheBlade1 | You may just want to burn it all out |
| 01:50.48 | ScytheBlade1 | Because that'd be one nasty cleaning job |
| 01:52.46 | findlay | how did they do that? |
| 01:53.32 | findlay | is anybody here as bored as I am? |
| 01:53.47 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm pretty bored |
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| 01:58.47 | findlay | ~bored |
| 01:58.49 | ibot | La ... lalalala ... beer! |
| 01:59.04 | findlay | whatever |
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| 02:01.56 | findlay | ibot: you're weird |
| 02:06.33 | Lone_Wanderer | My anime-loving friends are keeping me entertained. |
| 02:09.53 | findlay | no fair |
| 02:11.34 | findlay | there's nobody weird around here except me and I'm tired of entertaining myself |
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| 03:14.27 | findlay | does anybody here play the violin? |
| 03:15.22 | TheTiGuR | My wife does....does that count? |
| 03:15.23 | tensai | guitar, is that close enough? |
| 03:15.33 | findlay | sweet |
| 03:15.50 | TheTiGuR | She doesn't like me telling people though... =p |
| 03:15.55 | findlay | one more violinist and a cellist and we can play string quartet music |
| 03:16.35 | findlay | tensai: if we find a cellist, we can play Paganinni's terzeto concertante for viola, guitar, and cello |
| 03:16.36 | TheTiGuR | I doubt we are close enough to participate regularly....and she'd kill me |
| 03:16.56 | findlay | though I warn you it's Paganinni, so it's very hard |
| 03:17.35 | tensai | findlay: I do actually play classical guitar, but I'm not so good |
| 03:19.27 | findlay | I know what I should do tonignt, I'll write an ascii library that does Petrucci music notation in ASCII |
| 03:19.51 | tensai | what's a petrucci? |
| 03:20.47 | findlay | ~wiki Ottaviano Petrucci |
| 03:21.45 | findlay | hm, I was thinking that Petrucci invented modern music notation |
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| 03:26.14 | maquis | http://objectiveministries.org/kidz/ <-- funny! check out the part about ruby the lioness and the "spiritual safety tip" :) |
| 03:26.16 | brac | [OBJECTIVE: 4 Kidz with Lambuel!] |
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| 03:51.26 | findlay | --q-------=====-|----|-----=====--|----|----|| |
| 03:51.26 | findlay | ------,|--|-|-|-|--|-|-,|--|-|-|--|----|----|| |
| 03:51.26 | findlay | b------|--|-|-|-|--|-|--|--|-|-|--|--|-|--|-|| |
| 03:51.26 | findlay | ---P-----*-*-*--|--|-|----,-,-,---|--|-|--|-|| |
| 03:51.26 | findlay | ----------------|-o--|------------|-_|-|-_|-|| |
| 03:51.40 | findlay | how's that? |
| 03:52.05 | findlay | it's Beethoven |
| 03:57.54 | maquis | huh? |
| 03:59.04 | maquis | findlay: i'm not seeing it... sorry |
| 04:02.32 | findlay | maquis: try hearing it: http://67.137.24.114/track01.cdda.flac |
| 04:02.44 | findlay | darn it brac |
| 04:02.47 | findlay | there's no title |
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| 04:17.26 | EvilHerbivore | quit |
| 04:32.21 | mheath | This is not the quit you are looking for. |
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| 05:22.45 | QBFreak | hmm, anyone suggest any good terminal programs besides gnome teminal, xterm and konsole? |
| 05:22.59 | mheath | QBFreak, eterm. |
| 05:23.00 | bigdog_ut | gnome is the best |
| 05:23.06 | bigdog_ut | eterm, aterm |
| 05:23.09 | QBFreak | ignoring the fact that the colors are a bit off from what I'm used to, I can't get some of my hotkeys to work in some of them |
| 05:23.10 | maquis | Eterm is pretty nice.... |
| 05:23.10 | mheath | eterm is excellent. |
| 05:23.59 | bigdog_ut | aterm is really good too |
| 05:24.57 | QBFreak | irssi seems ok in gnome-terminal, but my TinyFugue setup is a mess |
| 05:25.22 | QBFreak | I used to be able to ALT+left/right and ALT+up/down |
| 05:39.08 | QBFreak | arg, I really need to get my mouse set up right |
| 05:39.33 | maquis | QBFreak: in eterm, it's shift up/down |
| 05:39.37 | maquis | erm |
| 05:39.46 | maquis | shift-pg-up/pg-dwn |
| 05:40.08 | maquis | what did left/right do how you had it set up? |
| 05:40.17 | QBFreak | a program I was using used them |
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| 05:40.41 | QBFreak | I _think_ it expected them as ESC+(direction) |
| 05:40.52 | QBFreak | not 100% sure |
| 05:40.53 | maquis | hmmm |
| 05:40.57 | maquis | i dunno |
| 05:41.10 | QBFreak | worked quite well with PuTTY in windows :) |
| 05:41.15 | maquis | shift-tab sometimes acts like escape... |
| 05:41.19 | maquis | ah... that's good to know |
| 05:41.34 | maquis | i've never figured out how to make a lot of things work with putty in windows |
| 05:41.42 | maquis | thankfully, i've never needed to use it too much |
| 05:41.49 | QBFreak | and I believe it also works from a real console, leme check |
| 05:41.57 | maquis | what i do need to learn to do is swap keys in windows without being the admin on the machine |
| 05:41.57 | QBFreak | heh, I've never had any issues with it |
| 05:42.06 | QBFreak | ah, no idea there |
| 05:42.39 | maquis | at work over the summer, we had root on our linux box, but weren't allowed to be admin on the windows laptop |
| 05:42.55 | QBFreak | heh |
| 05:43.04 | QBFreak | ok, it is ESC+direction |
| 05:43.21 | QBFreak | so really I guess I just need to set up readline to do that in whatever terminal I go with |
| 05:45.01 | maquis | :) |
| 05:46.03 | QBFreak | and it'd be nice if my ATI remote didn't send keys as a normal keyboard, that is I'd like to trap them somehow |
| 05:53.20 | QBFreak | is there anything that anyone knows of to help me figure out which buttons are which on my mouse? |
| 05:53.43 | QBFreak | I was poking xbindkeys but the example stuff I got for my mouse is not working |
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| 06:01.21 | findlay | QBFreak: it would be nice if desktops would treat mouse buttons as normal keyboard buttons |
| 06:01.40 | findlay | in the way that they are handled |
| 06:06.18 | tensai | QBFreak: I dig rxvt, although I prefer konsole if I've got a decent cpu behind it. |
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| 06:38.49 | levi | Gah, at this rate, it will take me 3 more years to finish my degree. Taking classes two at a time SUCKS. |
| 06:39.26 | maquis | levi: well... at least it's not like it was when you were actually in school... :) |
| 06:41.02 | levi | maquis: On the bright side, there were no CS classes that I need available for summer term, so I'm taking three GE classes via the internet. |
| 06:41.34 | maquis | levi: nice |
| 06:42.14 | levi | So, I won't have to worry about missing class when the baby comes, and I'll be able to ride my bike to and from work, and go mountain biking after work throughout the summer. |
| 06:42.57 | levi | It'll be nice to get in shape again. |
| 06:43.03 | tensai | levi: due date? |
| 06:43.23 | levi | maquis: Bah, you're going to graduate and not have to worry about school ever again! |
| 06:43.27 | levi | tensai: May 6 |
| 06:43.31 | maquis | levi: yeah... i just need to do that |
| 06:43.46 | tensai | maquis: it's overrated. just give up. |
| 06:43.48 | levi | maquis: At least it's not 3 years off for you! |
| 06:44.07 | levi | tensai: I tried that, too. Giving up sucks. |
| 06:45.15 | tensai | yeah, in seriousness it's much better to pound it out and be done |
| 06:45.21 | maquis | yeah |
| 06:45.28 | maquis | i'm just scared of failing something |
| 06:45.50 | tensai | maquis: one word: bribes |
| 06:46.29 | tensai | also, sleep will help. what are you doing still awake? |
| 06:46.39 | maquis | tensai: working on a project |
| 06:46.46 | tensai | networking? |
| 06:46.49 | levi | maquis: Just bust your butt through this last stretch and you'll be able to pull off passing grades. |
| 06:46.58 | maquis | levi: yeah... that's what i'm hoping |
| 06:47.09 | tensai | just keep chanting, "C-, C-, C-, C-" |
| 06:47.15 | levi | It's amazing what my roommate Ammon was able to pull out of his behind in the last couple weeks of class. |
| 06:47.39 | findlay | maquis: you totally missed out on your lame duck period |
| 06:48.05 | maquis | findlay: haha |
| 06:48.08 | maquis | yeah |
| 06:48.22 | maquis | now i just need to avoid all the sharp (and blunt) objects :) |
| 06:49.19 | tensai | "I see you've played knifey spoony before" |
| 06:49.43 | maquis | ?? |
| 06:50.24 | tensai | maquis: promise me when you graduate you'll indulge in a little pop culture |
| 06:50.47 | maquis | tensai: i will |
| 06:50.52 | levi | maquis: Pop culture is good for your social life. |
| 06:51.18 | levi | maquis: Get a netflix subscription and watch all the movies and TV shows that people are always referring to. |
| 06:51.42 | maquis | don't worry... i'll get some pop culture (well... some of it... i refuse to watch friends, survivor, real life, or any of those things that seem to be popular) |
| 06:51.42 | tensai | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:51.42 | tensai | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:51.42 | tensai | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:51.42 | tensai | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:51.42 | tensai | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:52.23 | findlay | ha, pop is for simpletons |
| 06:52.35 | tensai | findlay: what about the Boston Pops? |
| 06:52.50 | tensai | or Pop Goes the Weasel? |
| 06:52.54 | levi | maquis: Um, none of those are very current. :) |
| 06:53.05 | levi | I'll bet findlay would hate Pop Will Eat Itself. |
| 06:53.05 | maquis | levi: they are in my apartment.... |
| 06:53.22 | tensai | maquis: well no wonder you've retreated from society |
| 06:53.25 | findlay | tensai: don't know |
| 06:53.27 | levi | Friends /ended/ and is in syndication now. |
| 06:53.35 | maquis | the oher one that my roommates like is "sweet 16"... it's *really* scary |
| 06:53.51 | levi | Your roommates suck. |
| 06:53.51 | findlay | it's about March Madness? |
| 06:54.03 | maquis | levi: yeah... |
| 06:54.05 | maquis | i knew that already |
| 06:54.39 | levi | Though, my friends at work are still always quoting from Seinfeld, and it's been in syndication for quite a while now. |
| 06:54.40 | tensai | maquis: you've been keeping a list of all the things we've alluded to these past years I presume |
| 06:55.16 | maquis | tensai: i've got a good idea of it... |
| 06:55.35 | maquis | i eventually want to get a tuner card, and set up mythtv |
| 06:56.06 | maquis | then i'll be able to keep up on everything |
| 06:56.22 | levi | I want to get a terrestrial HDTV receiver. |
| 06:56.41 | maquis | (tuner card *will* have to wait until after i get an apartment and pay for internet, and stuff |
| 06:56.44 | maquis | ) |
| 07:00.19 | tensai | hdtv sets are getting pretty resonable. when they hit about $150 I'll probably take the plunge. |
| 07:00.33 | tensai | s/resonable/reasonable/ |
| 07:01.10 | levi | I have a big screen HD-ready TV, I just need a HD tuner. |
| 07:02.03 | tensai | levi: what are the inputs and outputs on the tuner? coax antenna in and dvi out? |
| 07:02.53 | levi | tensai: Depends on the tuner. The ones I've looked at have DVI, component, composite, and sometimes other outputs and a coax input. |
| 07:03.28 | levi | tensai: Some of them support both the cable HDTV encoding and the OTA encoding, some are just OTA. |
| 07:07.48 | levi | www.epvision.com |
| 07:09.13 | findlay | while we're on the subject: http://lists.duskglow.com/mailman/listinfo/open-graphics |
| 07:09.48 | findlay | it's some guys implementing an open source video card |
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| 07:17.29 | levi | findlay: This is one area where it may not be cheaper to do open source. |
| 07:17.46 | levi | Electronic components are significantly cheaper in bulk quantities. |
| 07:18.18 | findlay | I don't care. I'd pay more for a card that's fully open |
| 07:19.36 | levi | Well, having full access to specs is important for driver writing, but otherwise I don't see why you would need design info for a piece of hardware. |
| 07:19.42 | levi | You can't change it, after all. |
| 07:20.05 | levi | Unless it's got fpgas on it, that is. |
| 07:20.10 | levi | Time for me to sleep. |
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| 07:21.48 | xbmodder_lappy | I have a forumula in open office which gets the row, and the colum of the cell, how can I make the forumla pop up that cell as the value? |
| 07:22.48 | findlay | closed or partially closed spec'd hardware is halfway malicious and half the evil of treacherous hardware(TM) |
| 07:24.07 | findlay | xbmodder_lappy: a single cell? |
| 07:24.29 | xbmodder_lappy | yeah |
| 07:24.49 | findlay | well, why bother getting it's coordinates then because you could just hard code it in |
| 07:24.53 | xbmodder_lappy | Like I am currently in Cell E3, and I want to get the value of cell E2, how... |
| 07:25.08 | xbmodder_lappy | and when I am E4-I want E3 |
| 07:25.11 | xbmodder_lappy | etc... etc... |
| 07:25.32 | findlay | put the cursor on E3, hit <F2>, type: =E2 |
| 07:26.06 | findlay | click and drag the box in the bottom right corner down as many cells as you desire |
| 07:26.09 | findlay | simple induction |
| 07:26.15 | xbmodder_lappy | ok |
| 07:29.20 | xbmodder_lappy | yay, See, the problem is, I want to do this for like 10 different cells in about 5 different rows.. |
| 07:29.21 | xbmodder_lappy | :-( |
| 07:29.24 | xbmodder_lappy | but yeah |
| 07:33.39 | findlay | ~yeah |
| 07:33.41 | ibot | yeah is, like, YEAH |
| 07:36.28 | findlay | ibot: you're always here to talk with me even when everyone else is gone or asleep |
| 07:36.30 | ibot | I think you lost me on that one, findlay |
| 07:37.07 | xbmodder_lappy | ... |
| 07:37.17 | findlay | ibot needs more eliza-isms |
| 07:37.36 | findlay | it would be more entertaining anyway |
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| 07:46.00 | xbmodder_lappy | Is there like a function "HOW MUCH MORE THAN 0" |
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| 10:09.38 | EvilHerbivore | sv |
| 10:09.43 | EvilHerbivore | Irssi 0.8.9 (20031210) - http://irssi.org/ |
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| 14:13.31 | mheath | hmm |
| 14:13.41 | mheath | anyone know a good free drafting program? |
| 14:14.01 | mheath | just needs to be able to create 3 view orthographic drawings |
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| 14:27.35 | goozbach | qcad |
| 14:27.50 | goozbach | but 'free' is relative with that cause it uses QT |
| 14:31.23 | maquis | -lart goozbach |
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| 14:40.46 | hans | -lart tensai |
| 14:41.18 | mheath | goozbach, Really? I've never used QT so I've never had a reason to care, but I thought they revised the license a while back to be more GPL-compatible |
| 14:41.52 | mheath | Yah. Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow. |
| 14:44.33 | maquis | mheath: you're joking, right? |
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| 14:46.51 | mheath | *shrug* No. I've just never paid attention to it at all, really |
| 14:47.04 | bertbob | from /usr/share/doc/libqt3-mt/copyright: Qt 3.3 is dual licensed under the QPL and the GPL |
| 14:47.17 | mheath | Ah. See, thats what I thought. |
| 14:47.27 | maquis | mheath: i don't know about the qt thing... i'm referring to the snow... |
| 14:47.41 | mheath | maquis, It IS snowing. I was joking about being so happy =\ |
| 14:47.45 | maquis | yipes |
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| 14:47.59 | maquis | it's april 6! what's it doing snowing over there? |
| 14:48.11 | mheath | maquis, theres like 4 inches of snow on the ground now and its snowing really heavily |
| 14:48.59 | mheath | And I've got to go scrape it all off my car :( |
| 14:50.33 | goozbach | dang |
| 14:50.49 | goozbach | I slept without a blanket last night |
| 14:51.08 | goozbach | mheath: oh ok |
| 14:51.16 | goozbach | that's changed since I last looked at it |
| 14:51.23 | goozbach | I never had a problem with QT |
| 14:51.27 | goozbach | reguardless |
| 14:51.29 | maquis | mheath: scary |
| 14:51.47 | mheath | goozbach, yeah, I was going to say.... |
| 14:51.56 | mheath | GNU guys have been packaing it for GNU/Hurd for a while |
| 14:52.06 | mheath | And they'd drop dead before doing anything that wasn't free. |
| 14:52.22 | mheath | maquis, yep |
| 14:54.44 | elg | well it's always (or at least as long as I can remember) been free on free platforms like linux/bsd/hurd |
| 14:54.47 | elg | it's only on windows that it wasn't libre |
| 14:54.58 | elg | but I think that has changed, although I don't know the gory details |
| 14:55.28 | tensai | the windows version still isn't gpl |
| 14:56.22 | tensai | it's always been free as in beer, but back in the kde 1.x days it was not gpl compatible |
| 14:56.38 | goozbach | that's what it was |
| 14:56.40 | goozbach | my bad |
| 14:57.03 | elg | are you quite sure? |
| 14:57.15 | elg | that's how it was |
| 14:57.17 | elg | but I think now it's gpl |
| 14:57.21 | goozbach | BIG doesn't cut it to describe this project |
| 14:57.28 | elg | you can still get a commercial license if you want to keep your code proprietary |
| 14:57.35 | goozbach | it was the windows version not being something |
| 14:57.36 | tensai | yes. it is now gpl, and if you wanted to port it to windows certainly they couldn't stop you. |
| 14:57.50 | goozbach | I just remember that someone hated it a while back |
| 14:57.55 | goozbach | and it didn't affect met |
| 14:57.57 | goozbach | er me |
| 14:58.30 | tensai | you'd have to code up the win32 drawing routines. I dunno if anybody has tried. I wouldn't touch win32 with a 39 1/2 foot pole. |
| 14:58.35 | hans | http://www.trolltech.com/products/matrix.html |
| 14:58.39 | brac | [Trolltech - Licensing Matrix] |
| 14:59.00 | hans | http://www.trolltech.com/products/qt/opensource.html |
| 14:59.02 | brac | [Trolltech - Qt - Open Source C++ Development - Open Source Edition] |
| 14:59.14 | hans | "he Open Source Edition is freely available for the development of Open Source software governed by the GNU General Public License (GPL). " |
| 14:59.31 | hans | "The Qt Open Source Edition is available for the development of Open Source Software for Windows, Linux, Unix, and Mac OS X under the GPL license." |
| 15:00.28 | tensai | http://www.trolltech.com/download/qt/windows.html |
| 15:00.30 | brac | [Trolltech - Qt/Windows Open Source Edition - the GPL licensed version of Qt] |
| 15:00.35 | tensai | sure enough. I wonder when that happened. |
| 15:00.46 | elg | probably after you swore off /. ;-) |
| 15:01.10 | tensai | heh. I've got no gripe against qt. I just hate writing guis in general. |
| 15:01.24 | tensai | "Please note that the Open Source Edition of Qt will support the MinGW compiler. Visual Studio support and integration is provided with the commercial Editions of Qt." |
| 15:01.40 | elg | that's fair enough, eh? |
| 15:02.02 | tensai | works for me. I also wouldn't touch VS with a 39 and 1/2 foot pole. |
| 15:02.04 | elg | yeah, the KDE guys were all thumbing their noses at the gnome guys who had just lost their major ammunition |
| 15:02.35 | elg | if it wasn't gpl on linux before, that's probably when it became gpl too |
| 15:02.39 | tensai | gnome still has the advantage of gtk being lgpl |
| 15:02.51 | tensai | I'm positive it was gpl on linux before it was gpl on windows |
| 15:03.01 | elg | it was some kind of libre |
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| 15:05.21 | tensai | tsmith: what can you tell us about QT? |
| 15:07.49 | tsmith | not much, I've done a little with it and it seemed pretty straightforward to develop for |
| 15:09.33 | tensai | I like the way it uses slots and signals, but I disliked having to use a pre-compiler. |
| 15:09.52 | tensai | hey, how's that for mixing tense |
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| 15:11.30 | tensai | ~lart hans |
| 15:14.35 | *** join/#utah ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 15:14.35 | *** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See openclue.org/ut, sllug.org, uphpu.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com, utaug.org || Tickets/Info for X-Men 3 coming soon || goozbach now has his own banana republic |
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| 15:35.59 | maquis | *brrrr |
| 15:36.00 | maquis | * |
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| 15:56.42 | levi | Morning, #utah. |
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| 15:57.15 | maquis | -lart SpecialZ |
| 16:03.53 | levi | maquis: How's your project going? |
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| 16:04.58 | maquis | levi: it's going, but it's on hold until after i take my chem test this afternoon |
| 16:05.09 | levi | Ah, fun. |
| 16:05.28 | maquis | erm.. .not really |
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| 16:08.16 | levi | But chemistry is cool! |
| 16:09.49 | scott_ | utah weather is crazy |
| 16:10.05 | maquis | scott_: no kidding |
| 16:10.25 | maquis | levi: i suppose it is... but i don't feel like i understand this information well enough |
| 16:10.29 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@hfugal.NMSU.Edu) |
| 16:10.34 | levi | I would go so far as to say that, lately, Utah weather SUCKS. |
| 16:11.02 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@dhcp164.openinternet.gurulabs.com) |
| 16:11.04 | maquis | i went to the review on tuesday, but i still am not quite ready to take this... |
| 16:11.13 | sjansen | ~rlart |
| 16:13.24 | scott_ | that's a dangerous sentence for a dyslectic that reads grits as girls. |
| 16:14.21 | maquis | scott_: wow... i can imagine... |
| 16:14.34 | levi | I've never heard of girls being poured before, though. |
| 16:14.41 | maquis | ~lart sjansen |
| 16:15.12 | sjansen | Tab Mix Plus++ |
| 16:15.32 | levi | sjansen: C++ |
| 16:15.49 | sjansen | levi: they generally have to be unconscious before you can pour them |
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| 16:16.18 | levi | sjansen: Solids don't pour very well, and all the girls I've known have been distincly solid. |
| 16:16.28 | levi | s/distincly/distinctly/ |
| 16:18.15 | tensai | what if these girls were female pumpkin blossoms? those could be heated and poured. |
| 16:18.54 | levi | Pouring those down someone's pants wouldn't be quite as scandalous. |
| 16:19.56 | fozzmoo | Nope, Just... messy |
| 16:20.31 | levi | Not significantly more messy than grits, though. |
| 16:20.49 | fozzmoo | another one for the dyslectics. |
| 16:21.15 | tensai | I wish I had some pumpkin blossoms. that would mean it's warm outside. |
| 16:21.35 | fozzmoo | Alas... it looks like early November out there right now. |
| 16:21.46 | maquis | wow... odd conversation |
| 16:21.58 | maquis | fozzmoo: yes... it does... or late november |
| 16:21.59 | fozzmoo | Here's the grit here... |
| 16:22.02 | fozzmoo | s/grit/girl/ |
| 16:22.10 | maquis | haha |
| 16:22.17 | maquis | -lart fozz |
| 16:22.24 | fozzmoo | NO!!!! |
| 16:22.34 | fozzmoo | Now THAT is punishment. |
| 16:22.53 | maquis | :) |
| 16:22.58 | maquis | "right now, we have a bunch of systems where, we don't care about whether they can play checkers, but if they tried, they would reek... and that's kind of disturbing because checkers is pretty easy" |
| 16:23.14 | maquis | "pretty soon there'll be a vending machine where you put in some money, and your finger, and push a button, then after waiting a few minutes, out will pop a bladder or a liver or something" |
| 16:23.32 | fozzmoo | Who said that? |
| 16:23.40 | maquis | my machine learning prof |
| 16:23.46 | fozzmoo | A bladder, maybe. |
| 16:23.48 | fozzmoo | A liver? |
| 16:23.50 | fozzmoo | Nah. |
| 16:23.50 | maquis | "real world problems are the set of problems our algorithm works well on" |
| 16:23.54 | fozzmoo | Not for many, many years. |
| 16:24.12 | maquis | "the bias of decision trees is blue" |
| 16:24.20 | levi | Perhaps a liver would pop out, but what would you do with it? |
| 16:24.43 | fozzmoo | Eat it, I'd assume. |
| 16:24.50 | fozzmoo | "HEY! THat was for me!" |
| 16:25.08 | maquis | so far today, he's said all those things, and also acted out how a learning algorithm moves around the problem space... complete with sound-effects |
| 16:25.09 | levi | "Hi, Doctor, I got this new liver from the vending machine outside. Could you replace mine with it?" |
| 16:25.29 | maquis | levi: that was kind-of the idea |
| 16:25.29 | fozzmoo | "No, son, but it looks quite yummy." |
| 16:25.39 | levi | fozzmoo: OK, but who would want to eat a bladder? |
| 16:25.55 | maquis | apparently scientists have been able to make a bladder for people who need them... |
| 16:26.02 | fozzmoo | The bladder? That's different. That one you blow up, tie off, and play dodgeball with. |
| 16:26.23 | levi | maquis: The question is why one would put organs in a vending machine when they are useless without a doctor to 'install' them for you. |
| 16:26.34 | maquis | levi: who knows... :) |
| 16:26.59 | fozzmoo | Something like that. |
| 16:27.06 | fozzmoo | DIY Liver transplant. |
| 16:27.08 | levi | The Japanese would probably do it just on the principle of the thing, but over here we don't really have thing about vending machines. |
| 16:27.13 | maquis | "you have a serious turtle issue with this area of the algorithm... it's turtle city" |
| 16:27.51 | levi | maquis: You've got lots of 'pen up' 'right 90' 'forward 10' kind of statements in it? |
| 16:27.55 | fozzmoo | I haven't heard the words "turtle" and "algorithm" in the same sentence since I was in high school doing Pascal with Turtle graphics on Apple IIe computers. |
| 16:28.00 | fozzmoo | hah! |
| 16:28.09 | maquis | levi: huh? |
| 16:28.18 | levi | Poor maquis. |
| 16:28.20 | fozzmoo | levi was essentially making the same point as me. |
| 16:28.43 | maquis | oh... turning around in tangents? |
| 16:28.43 | levi | Turtles remind us old people of Logo and Logo-inspired languages and libraries. |
| 16:28.47 | maquis | oh |
| 16:29.13 | maquis | dr ventura is one of the funniest cs profs i've ever had |
| 16:30.17 | levi | fozzmoo: I did actual Logo on Apple II computers. My particular Logo system allowed for joystick input, so you could make games with it. It came with a turtle racetrack game, where you guided the turtle around an oval. |
| 16:31.07 | fozzmoo | That's cool. My _only_ exposure to Apple IIs was doing that Pascal in high school. I used Atari 8-bits prior to that and PCs after that. |
| 16:31.19 | fozzmoo | Oh- I think I did some Pascal on Franklins somewhere in there too. |
| 16:31.21 | fozzmoo | Pretty sad. |
| 16:31.36 | levi | We had a Franklin Ace 1000 at home. |
| 16:31.49 | levi | It was largely Apple II compatible until ProDOS came out. |
| 16:32.10 | levi | After that, we went to Macintosh insteaad of IBM PCs. |
| 16:33.04 | sjansen | AppleSoft Basic was my first programming language. Integer Basic was why I almost became an electrical engineer instead of programmer. |
| 16:33.15 | levi | The Mac Plus was so incredibly ahead of the IBM PC of its day it was funny. Of course, it was also incredibly expensive. |
| 16:33.36 | maquis | i used to play with hypercard.... |
| 16:33.48 | levi | I knew just enough about the C64 to launch the games on the machines in the department stores. :) |
| 16:34.38 | levi | I used TRS-80s in a typing class once. Didn't learn to type, but I had fun doing silly BASIC programs in class. |
| 16:36.39 | fozzmoo | Kind of funny thinking back to those days.. |
| 16:36.52 | fozzmoo | Going to JC Penney or Sears and playing with all the computers. |
| 16:38.24 | levi | Then there was going to the computer stores and drooling over the demos playing on the Amigas. |
| 16:39.22 | levi | And then crying when you boot up a game on the PC with CGA graphics and PC speaker bleeps and buzzes. |
| 16:40.19 | maquis | ??????? |
| 16:40.51 | levi | maquis: What are you ?ing about? |
| 16:41.12 | maquis | this is all way outside of my range of experience... |
| 16:42.03 | maquis | (and dying repeatedly... but stll thinking it was cool in some way...) |
| 16:42.41 | maquis | i think my dad used to help me with it... he would've been good at that stuff... |
| 16:51.22 | sjansen | ~lart snow |
| 17:02.11 | findlay | ~shakespeare snow |
| 17:02.14 | ibot | ACTION stands up and quotes Shakespeare: snow - snow's brain is as dry as the remainder biscuit after a voyage. |
| 17:08.48 | levi | Hmm, EiffelStudio released under the GPL |
| 17:15.57 | RyanE | dang. I try and get some work done, and I *miss* the Apple II conversation? Dang! |
| 17:16.32 | levi | Shame on you, doing work during the day. |
| 17:16.40 | synic | Man I'm gay. |
| 17:16.49 | RyanE | We had an Apple II, before it was Apple II+. Integer basic, with the AppleSoft Basic card. That was the card with the switch on the back, that allowed you to reset to monitor ROM instead of rebooting... :) |
| 17:17.03 | RyanE | handy, that. |
| 17:18.24 | levi | OK, you win the geezer award. :) |
| 17:18.39 | RyanE | woo hoo! I win! |
| 17:19.44 | sjansen | ~medicate RyanE |
| 17:19.56 | sjansen | RyanE: Calm down, gramps, remember your heart. |
| 17:20.05 | RyanE | hehe |
| 17:20.31 | RyanE | back in MY day, we played games with PADDLES, and we *liked it*. |
| 17:20.57 | levi | I played with game paddles on some old system before. |
| 17:28.25 | RyanE | levi: so you win the 'wannabe geezer' award... |
| 17:28.50 | levi | Well, it was back when they were in common use. |
| 17:39.54 | goozbach | completely useless command you can't live without of the day: ddate |
| 17:40.50 | jsmith | goozbach: OK... you're right, it's completely useless |
| 17:42.43 | findlay | on my system it comes in a package called util-linux. "Various useful Linux utilities" |
| 17:43.38 | fozzmoo | This company's IT staff are all aggressively campaigning for anal retention posterboy. |
| 17:43.51 | fozzmoo | Windows shop, of course. |
| 17:45.03 | obfuscated | what's the best way to prove someone hacked into my server last month and used up 700+ Gb of bandwidth? It wasn't through the webserver because I'm not seeing anything in those logs. |
| 17:45.39 | obfuscated | my hosting company insists that 700+ Gb of bandwidth were used last month and I rarely use it |
| 17:45.54 | obfuscated | They have yet to issue me proof though |
| 17:46.10 | jsmith | obfuscated: Are you running PHPBB or PHPGedView by chance? |
| 17:46.16 | obfuscated | nope |
| 17:46.45 | obfuscated | I'm running TWiki for a family site, but that hasn't used much bandwidth either |
| 17:47.18 | TheTiGuR | searched your logs for stray POST's or wget's? |
| 17:47.42 | obfuscated | TheTiGuR: which logs should I look for that? |
| 17:47.44 | TheTiGuR | any unknown processes running within your account? |
| 17:47.47 | TheTiGuR | Apache logs |
| 17:48.05 | jsmith | obfuscated: I had a client who ended up getting an IRC server running on his box, transferring DVD images from Italy |
| 17:48.15 | obfuscated | It's not apache - webalizer shows only a couple hundred Megs of bandwidth for that month |
| 17:48.16 | TheTiGuR | Hehe...nice jsmith |
| 17:48.24 | TheTiGuR | I'm not saying it is apache |
| 17:48.43 | TheTiGuR | but if someone cracked your account, it could have been through something you have on your website |
| 17:48.45 | obfuscated | I'll check the processes |
| 17:48.54 | jsmith | obfuscated: Look for processes saything they're apache, but they're really not |
| 17:48.55 | obfuscated | thing is, I don't think whatever happened is still happening |
| 17:49.19 | TheTiGuR | through which they downloaded something from somewhere else, started a process up, and THAT may have been your bandwidth sucker |
| 17:49.29 | obfuscated | yeah |
| 17:49.53 | TheTiGuR | I hate tracking down crackers...real pita |
| 17:49.53 | obfuscated | never go through ServerPronto, FYI |
| 17:50.00 | obfuscated | they're cheap, but the service is horrible |
| 17:50.14 | fozzmoo | TheTiGuR: That's what we do. :) |
| 17:50.20 | obfuscated | I can't get them to give me proof that the bandwidth was really used |
| 17:50.45 | obfuscated | I'm very close to just issuing a chargeback on the charge |
| 17:51.02 | obfuscated | figure that ought to get me some service |
| 17:51.38 | TheTiGuR | 'proof' isn't always the easiest to provide... they probably aren't tracking to any level of detail beyond data passing attached to your IP |
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| 17:52.06 | obfuscated | that's fine - I just want times of when and how much data passed through my IP for February |
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| 17:52.37 | obfuscated | they had to know that to know how much to charge me |
| 17:52.58 | TheTiGuR | No...they know yo accumulated X bw ocer the month |
| 17:53.23 | obfuscated | X bw ocer? |
| 17:53.25 | TheTiGuR | gack....stupid fingers |
| 17:53.35 | TheTiGuR | X bw (bandwidth) over |
| 17:53.50 | obfuscated | how do they calculate that, though? |
| 17:53.54 | obfuscated | surely they have logs |
| 17:54.03 | TheTiGuR | Is this shared hosting or dedserver? |
| 17:54.07 | obfuscated | dedserver |
| 17:55.08 | TheTiGuR | they probably just have extremely basic information from the switch saying you passed x amount of traffic this month |
| 17:55.33 | TheTiGuR | It would be up to them to actually track it and make data points in a log somewhere |
| 17:55.43 | sjansen | running counter as compared to logs |
| 17:55.47 | TheTiGuR | and if they are cheap and poor service, its likely they don't do that |
| 17:55.57 | obfuscated | then, that's they're problem for not keeping detailed logs |
| 17:56.04 | obfuscated | their |
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| 17:56.51 | obfuscated | AFAIC if they can't tell me how they arrived at their number, they can't prove I actually used the bandwidth from my server |
| 17:57.02 | obfuscated | I'm willing to bet that would stand up in court too |
| 17:57.25 | obfuscated | their system for arriving at the number could be broken AFAIC |
| 17:58.24 | TheTiGuR | Good luck with it =-) |
| 17:59.04 | obfuscated | yeah - I need it |
| 17:59.13 | obfuscated | I'm cancelling as soon as I get my money back |
| 17:59.18 | obfuscated | these guys are horrible |
| 17:59.31 | obfuscated | takes them 4 days to answer any e-mails, and they don't return my phone calls |
| 17:59.40 | obfuscated | $30/mo for ded server though |
| 18:00.12 | TheTiGuR | How much are they trying to charge you for the bw overage? |
| 18:00.43 | obfuscated | $500 |
| 18:00.48 | obfuscated | just over that |
| 18:00.54 | TheTiGuR | *cough* |
| 18:01.08 | obfuscated | yeah |
| 18:01.17 | obfuscated | hence my frustration |
| 18:01.44 | TheTiGuR | Personally I'd recommend going somewhere else, paying a little more, but getting real service |
| 18:01.46 | obfuscated | Charles Fry recommended them to me and he hasn't had any issues with them |
| 18:02.09 | TheTiGuR | sometimes no issues = never talked to them for anything |
| 18:02.12 | obfuscated | I think I've decided I'm just not going to get into the hosting business - too much trouble |
| 18:02.29 | TheTiGuR | It is definitely an interesting biz |
| 18:02.47 | fozzmoo | Most people don't realize you get what you pay for. |
| 18:03.06 | obfuscated | yeah - too much stress for me. I'm a developer, not a sysadmin |
| 18:03.14 | jsmith | Yeah, you get what you pay for, and have to deal with what you don't pay for. |
| 18:03.16 | fozzmoo | My company does "basic" web hosting for $35/mo... |
| 18:03.29 | TheTiGuR | wal-mart is fine is you don't mind generally cheap goods, but don't get mad if stuff breaks fast |
| 18:03.31 | fozzmoo | that's "outrageous" compared to your typical cheap hosting. |
| 18:03.42 | obfuscated | fozzmoo: I appreciate it - I've actually referred the client that needed it to get his own hosting |
| 18:04.01 | fozzmoo | but we have decent customer loyalty. |
| 18:04.10 | obfuscated | I'm going to stick to mainly development |
| 18:04.32 | fozzmoo | and we're not really in the hosting biz. We just do it as a service to our clients. |
| 18:04.51 | obfuscated | fozzmoo: I've already given him someone to go to, so I think he's too far along the process. I'll remember you for later though. |
| 18:05.07 | fozzmoo | obfuscated: no worries. :) |
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| 18:20.04 | goozbach | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:20.09 | goozbach | oops |
| 18:20.13 | goozbach | Today is Sweetmorn, the 23rd day of Discord in the YOLD 3172 |
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| 18:40.07 | sjansen | Yay! Power outage! .... Gotta love Utah Power. |
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| 18:43.42 | tensai | sjansen: hamsters must have gone on strike |
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| 18:48.57 | findlay | ~hampster power |
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| 18:59.36 | tensai | http://edgefactor.com/?p=12 |
| 19:00.24 | findlay | man, I'm so tired |
| 19:03.30 | Hhhhh | hello |
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| 19:24.30 | findlay | ~hello |
| 19:24.31 | ibot | Howdy Bub |
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| 20:23.21 | tene | anyone here ever use Net::Pcap in perl? |
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| 20:42.14 | Hhhhh | levi, what CPU? |
| 20:42.40 | Hhhhh | my dad might be interested |
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| 20:43.48 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 20:51.18 | levi | 1Ghz G4 |
| 20:52.35 | Jayce^ | tene, no, haven't needed it myself... likely I've used things that have used it but never directly myself |
| 20:53.18 | tene | This is a very strange problem. I'm completely out of ideas. |
| 20:53.34 | tene | Sometimes my script using Net::Pcap just stops detecting any packets at all. |
| 20:53.45 | tene | I can still see the packets using the same rule with tcpdump. |
| 20:53.57 | tene | No change to the code and no change to anything else on the server. |
| 20:54.10 | tene | Nothing related that I'm aware of, that is. |
| 20:54.29 | tene | Last night it started working again right after my co-worker logged out, but that could just be coincidence. |
| 20:54.42 | tene | This time we were only able to get it to work again by rebooting the box. |
| 21:01.48 | levi | Hhhhh: http://saltlakecity.craigslist.org/sys/148835497.html |
| 21:02.59 | Hhhhh | levi, no ethernet? |
| 21:03.19 | levi | Yes, it has ethernet |
| 21:11.12 | findlay | weird, if I use the right window key in firefox it scrolls up about 5 lines and when I release it, it goes back |
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| 21:38.15 | tensai | ~lart elg |
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| 21:40.16 | elg | -lart tensai |
| 21:44.28 | *** join/#utah brando1 (n=brandon@blurry.skewedvision.com) |
| 21:58.54 | brando1 | not to start any type of war, but what's the best live cd out there? I need something tonight to rescue a downed windows 98 system that is very old, and I'm not up on who makes some of the best live cd's right now |
| 21:59.47 | tene | best for what purpose? |
| 22:00.23 | tensai | knoppix of course is the original and works well. I keep it and the ultimate bood cd (ubcd) in my bag. ubcd has memory checkers and a bunch of bootable diagnostics. |
| 22:00.34 | atoponce | brando1: i would recommend damn small linux personally |
| 22:00.38 | brando1 | retrieving data from a windows 98 box that's past virus overtaken |
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| 22:01.02 | tensai | http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/ |
| 22:01.03 | brac | [Ultimate Boot CD - Overview] |
| 22:02.24 | brando1 | how about kubuntu vs ubuntu? |
| 22:03.02 | atoponce | ubuntu is nice for using it as a desktop, but not recovery cd. it uses too much ram, and is too bloated for simple recovery |
| 22:03.33 | brando1 | .. if there is a live cd that has samba on it and ready to go, and appears as a windows computer, so I can easily transfer files to another windows box, that would be ideal |
| 22:03.36 | QBFreak | UBCD is awesome |
| 22:03.40 | atoponce | that's why i like damn small so much. very lightweight |
| 22:10.16 | brando1 | .. all i really need is something with a webserver to host a tarball I make, or ftp, or any app windows xp can transfer from without having to download anything to it. |
| 22:11.32 | tensai | ~lart sjansen while he's not here to defend himself |
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| 22:26.51 | *** join/#utah SpecialZ (n=sjk@fruits.cs.byu.edu) |
| 22:27.45 | SpecialZ | "Some people are like slinkies. Not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs." |
| 22:28.20 | findlay | -brac ibot |
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| 22:32.11 | tensai | ~ibot brac |
| 22:32.12 | ibot | i heard brac is the enemy |
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| 22:43.55 | levi | Woo, someone wants to buy the eMac. |
| 22:46.28 | RyanE | that was quick. |
| 22:49.27 | findlay | ~eMaC |
| 22:52.00 | findlay | ~hug rsync |
| 22:52.01 | ibot | ACTION hugs rsync |
| 22:56.40 | levi | Yeah, apparently he works for the city and wants to buy it for his workplace, where they already have several. |
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| 23:27.38 | elg | -lart vontrapp |
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| 23:48.49 | Hhhhh | hahaha, SpecialZ's quote is awesome |