irclog2html for #utah on 20060325

00:00.18^Migs^wtq, abc news 4 just said there might be a "local pandemic"
00:00.21^Migs^that doesn't even make sense
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01:25.23maquisquestion...  is there a way i'm missing in the manpage to get bc to not do integer arithmetic when i divide?
01:26.23maquishmm
01:26.26maquisit worked fine that time
01:26.31maquisbot other times, it doesn't work
01:34.36*** join/#utah OgMaciel (n=omaciel@ubuntu/member/gnukemist)
01:34.51OgMacielemcnabb: ping
01:51.49ScytheBlade1heh
01:52.04ScytheBlade1https://www.learn2asp.net/ <-- download 3 videos, get a free copy of Visual Studio 2005
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01:58.08jsmithOh really?
02:01.28ScytheBlade1Really really
02:03.00jsmithSounds too good to be true.  It probably is.  Why do I need Visual Studio, when I've got vi?
02:03.23ScytheBlade1lol
02:03.26ScytheBlade1Troll away, brother!
02:03.58OgMacieljsmith: hehehehe
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02:07.08emcnabbOgMaciel: hey
02:07.10emcnabbhow's it going?
02:07.21OgMacielhey
02:07.24OgMacielhow are ya?
02:07.42emcnabbdoing ok, just trying to clean the den
02:07.46OgMacielbeen busy at work... they're moving me and the other guys to a different part of the building
02:07.53emcnabb(which is a never ending task)
02:07.58emcnabbfun
02:08.14emcnabbis it a move for the better?
02:08.17OgMacielemcnabb: I never got a chance to properly thank you for the great job you did in MA
02:08.26OgMacielemcnabb: not sure yet
02:08.32emcnabbthanks
02:08.48emcnabbit was a fun class
02:08.53OgMacielsure was
02:09.04OgMacieldid you manage to check out BrainShare?
02:09.21emcnabbnot this year
02:09.28emcnabbI've gone in the past though
02:09.36emcnabbyou ready for LinuxWorld?
02:09.44OgMacielhell ya
02:09.44emcnabbit's in two weeks, right?
02:09.48OgMacielyup
02:09.55OgMacielordered 600 CDs
02:09.56OgMacielhehehe
02:10.11emcnabbnice; so you're going to be manning the Ubuntu booth, right?
02:10.34OgMacielyup
02:10.40emcnabbtime to go to dinner; I'll be back on later tonight
02:10.43OgMacielknow anyone who'd like to help?
02:10.54OgMacielemcnabb: cool... pleasure to talk to you
02:10.56emcnabbmost of my friends are out west
02:10.57TheDiffOgMaciel: you work for ubuntu?
02:11.18OgMacielTheDiff: am a member
02:11.35OgMacielhttps://launchpad.net/people/ogmaciel
02:11.45TheDiffhmm
02:11.48TheDiffi have a feature request
02:11.54TheDiffuse emerge instead of apt-get
02:11.56TheDiffhaha
02:12.00OgMacielhehehehe
02:12.05OgMacielGentoo fan huh?
02:12.21TheDiffwell, i like their package manager more
02:12.26TheDiffi have ubuntu on my laptop
02:12.40TheDiffi like how it autodetects alot of stuff, and for the most part its nic
02:12.51OgMacielI used Gentoo for a looong time
02:13.43OgMacielbut I find it to be overkill for a laptop
02:13.43TheDiffyeah
02:13.43OgMacielfor the server I can see it
02:13.43TheDiffyeah i have gentoo on my desktop
02:13.43OgMacielbut even now I run Dapper for my server
02:13.43TheDiffi dont want to be compiling on my lappy though
02:13.43OgMacielexactly
02:13.48OgMacielthe thing feels like a hot plate
02:13.51TheDiffi just dont like how apt-get has like a million different servers, instead of one repository :/
02:14.40OgMacielhummm...  are you afraid of someone tampering with the files?
02:14.57TheDiffno, i just think its harder to manage
02:15.01ScytheBlade1Me personally, I just dislike the fact that it *doesn't* have one
02:15.11TheDifflike if i want so and so package, i gotta go find the repository
02:15.16ScytheBlade1yeah
02:15.26TheDiffand then if you are helping new people
02:15.29TheDiffwith synaptic and stuff
02:15.29OgMacielor you could enable universe
02:15.45TheDiffits like well make sure this repository and this repository are included, but not that one or that other one
02:16.07OgMacielhave you tried the new way of installing apps?
02:16.17TheDiffwhat is the dew way of installing apps
02:16.17OgMacielI believe is called GnuApp?
02:16.29OgMacielor something like that
02:16.32TheDiffi know there is a menu selection in the application menu
02:16.36TheDiffthat says "add new application"
02:16.37TheDiffor something
02:16.42OgMacielthat one
02:16.44TheDiffand then you just click the program, and it installs it
02:16.46TheDiffwhich is nice
02:16.52OgMacielit actually adds the repo for you
02:16.57OgMacielif it is not enabled
02:16.59TheDiffbut its a limited number of programs that it works for
02:17.03OgMacieltrue
02:18.17TheDiffbut yes, thats much better than synaptic
02:19.07TheDiffOgMaciel: any big changes in the next release of ubuntu?
02:19.36OgMacielyou could say that...  but for a Gentoo user, you probably have all the new gadgets already
02:20.20ScytheBlade1Behold why gentoo is amazing
02:20.30TheDiffhaha
02:20.34ScytheBlade1But really, I'll be honest here
02:20.44OgMacielScytheBlade1: hehehehe
02:20.47TheDiffOgMaciel: i'm just curious if I should upgrade the ubuntu install on my laptop
02:20.50ScytheBlade1I *hate* the idea of any distro that "just works" - because it my experience, IT NEVER JUST WORKS
02:20.52ScytheBlade1*ever*
02:20.54ScytheBlade1However!
02:21.03ScytheBlade1I've only heard good things about ununtu
02:21.08ScytheBlade1Which... is scary
02:21.26OgMacielTheDiff: if you want the latest stuff (NetworkManager, firefox 1.5, etc) I would give Dapper a try
02:21.36OgMacielScytheBlade1: =)
02:21.39ScytheBlade1*ubuntu
02:22.01ScytheBlade1Could it install onto an SMP machine with software RAID over SATA without effort?
02:22.10TheDiffOgMaciel: what is the best way to upgrade? i'm not sure how ubuntu upgrades work in comparison to gentoo
02:22.29TheDifflike do I have to download a disk, and basically overwrite everything I already have?
02:22.31OgMacielScytheBlade1: never tried it so if it is a trap, I won't go for it...  ;)
02:22.41ScytheBlade1It's basically a trap
02:22.51ScytheBlade1It's also a trap that I've had to install on multiple times
02:22.58OgMacielTheDiff: you could s/breezy/dapper/g your sources.list
02:23.06OgMacielScytheBlade1: ouch
02:23.22ScytheBlade1All of the boxes I manage are SATA, and half of them are software RAID
02:23.38ScytheBlade1I have yet to find a distro that'll install by default on both of those configs
02:23.59OgMacielnever really had to do that sort of thing
02:24.08OgMacielonly when I did my RHCE...
02:24.15TheDiffOgMaciel: oh cool
02:24.17OgMacieltalk about being out of place
02:24.19ScytheBlade1lol
02:24.20ScytheBlade1Yeah
02:24.54OgMacielanyone here do Gtk# by any chance?  ;)
02:26.53jsmithOgMaciel: No, not in a long time -- I did some PHP-GTK though, if that counts...
02:27.19OgMacieljsmith: =)  am looking for people to contribute to my pet project
02:27.40TheDiffOgMaciel: and what would that be?
02:28.04OgMacielhttp://billreminder.sourceforge.net
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02:28.05brac[BillReminder : a desktop bill reminder for Linux]
02:30.01TheDiffthats pretty cool
02:30.14OgMacielTheDiff: thanx  ;)
02:37.56TheDiffwho has used PHP with sessions before
02:39.47OgMacielcan you guys recommend a way for me to visualize my server's performance from my desktop?  graphically I mean
02:40.44linuxalienHi, anyone use fink, darwinports, or gentoo portage with OS X?  Can anyone recommend either one?
02:41.14sprmy OS X friends all like fink it seems.
02:42.06linuxalienReally?  Cool.  Thanks!
02:54.58TheDiffOgMaciel: gkrellm?
02:58.03bertbobone an old hippie like me appreciates is lavaps
02:58.20TheDiffthere are hippies in utah/
02:58.22jsmithWhere's Merlin's CPUFire applet when you need it
02:58.30TheDiffs/\//?
03:06.17bertbobis wmfire anthing like that?
03:09.08jsmithWhat's wmfire?
03:13.36bertbobwmfire - Fiery dock app monitor
03:14.23bertbobwmfire is flaming dock app which can monitor your cpu, memory,  network
03:14.23bertbob<PROTECTED>
03:14.44jsmithHmmmn.. sounds like just the ticket.
03:16.39jsmithToo bad it's for WM :-(
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04:38.36linuxalienI installed fink! Woo hoo!
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04:44.12linuxaliennite all
04:56.08TheDiffwhaha
04:56.20TheDiffphp is making me sad
04:56.32^Migs^what's wrong now?
04:56.55^Migs^btw, I made a web site advertising our slave-for-hire scheme: http://www.justinreeve.com/freeroom/
04:56.56brac[Free Room and Board in Exchange for Housekeeper]
04:56.59TheDiffhahaha
04:57.18TheDiffoh you even put flowers on it
04:57.24^Migs^yeah, just found a free web background
04:57.28^Migs^totally inviting
04:59.02^Migs^I shoul realy make that form two columns, but meh
04:59.09TheDiffi'm trying to make a site with a "login" area
04:59.13TheDiffbut I would rather not use cookies
04:59.15^Migs^what are you havingp roblems with?
04:59.18^Migs^yeah, use sessions
04:59.18TheDiffcuz I hate those
04:59.21^Migs^everybody hates cookies
04:59.22TheDiffso yeah, sessions
04:59.32TheDiffbut you still have to pass a session ID variable?
04:59.37^Migs^I sometimes I use a cookie just as a failsafe
04:59.47^Migs^the cookie reinitiates the session if, for whatever reason, it gets destroyed
04:59.56^Migs^er, reinitiates the login
04:59.59^Migs^yes
05:00.13TheDiffthis book says to use cookies to pass the session ID variable
05:00.15TheDiffi'd rather not
05:00.23TheDiffshould I just pass it with GET
05:00.28TheDiffor can it be done with POST
05:00.43^Migs^I don't even know what you mean, for sure
05:00.43TheDiffGET makes me sad because it puts it in the URL
05:00.48^Migs^no, use POST
05:00.59^Migs^then $_SESSION["username"] = $_POST["username"];
05:01.10^Migs^to do it simply
05:01.19^Migs^after that, it's in the session for good
05:01.33TheDiffyeah but you still have to pass the session ID from page to page, right?
05:01.41^Migs^well yeah
05:01.45^Migs^session_start() on each page
05:02.15TheDiffbut how does the next page know what the session ID was, does it automatically carry over?
05:02.27^Migs^yes, it automatically carries over
05:06.36TheDiff"The session ID has to be sent to the browser with every response - and more importantly - has to be sent back to the server with every request. The easiest way to do this is with cookies... However if the client does not support cookies... PHP automatically falls back into a mode in which the session ID is appended automatically to all URLs. Session IDs in the URL are generally a bad thing; because people could bookmark this infor
05:06.44TheDiff:(
05:07.14TheDiff"however, every e-commerce website must take into account that some visitors just do not like or do not support cookies. Here sessions offer a convenient way to overcome this limitation
05:07.18TheDiff"
05:23.05TheDiffi <3 smashing pumpkins - soma
05:43.18TheDiff^Migs^: is there a way to tell PHP to load a page? like a function call or something?
05:44.06ScytheBlade1Define 'load'
05:46.25TheDiffum
05:46.27TheDifffor example
05:46.34TheDiffif i have restricted access to one part of a site
05:46.44TheDiffthey put in their usrname/pass into a form on page1
05:46.52TheDiffif it fails it just reloads page1 with an error message
05:46.59TheDiffif it succeeds it loads page2
05:47.49ScytheBlade1if (fail) { reload page; } else { any number of redirect methods, includes, etc }
05:47.59ScytheBlade1There really are about an infinite number of ways of doing what you want
05:48.47TheDiffincludes doesnt redirect does it? it just appends html/php to the current page
05:48.53ScytheBlade1Right
05:48.56TheDiffthe only way i found to do a page redirect was to have an html header
05:49.04ScytheBlade1There's also javascript
05:49.08TheDiffand that had to be teh FIRST thing on the page, so having an include wouldnt help
05:49.10ScytheBlade1and HTTP headers
05:49.18ScytheBlade1Or, the infamous link! ;)
05:49.19TheDifferr http header, not html
05:49.26TheDiffi dont want them to have to click
05:49.33TheDiffand i'd rather not use javascript just yet
05:49.36ScytheBlade1You could do it both ways, HTTP and HTML headers
05:49.48ScytheBlade1I'd recommend HTTP header, it's simple, elegant, and works
05:49.57ScytheBlade1Just do all of the stuff before outputting anything to the browser
05:50.14TheDiffhmm
05:54.17^Migs^oh sorry
05:54.40^Migs^header ('location: thepage.html');
05:54.51^Migs^wait, is that it?
05:55.03ScytheBlade1Not quite
05:55.08^Migs^when would that send?
05:55.10ScytheBlade1Case preservation is recommended for HTTP headers
05:55.17^Migs^Location?
05:55.20ScytheBlade1Aye
05:55.28^Migs^gotcha
05:55.37^Migs^Scythe, check it out: http://www.justinreeve.com/freeroom/
05:55.38brac[Free Room and Board in Exchange for Housekeeper]
05:56.11^Migs^no one's called yet, but someone tore off one of our phone numbers that we put at the bottom of the ad
05:56.12ScytheBlade1Netflix is fun
05:56.18ScytheBlade1I'd put my .5TB storage array to use
05:56.28^Migs^yeah
05:56.53ScytheBlade1(Not that I really watch movies)
05:56.57ScytheBlade1Cute girls though
05:57.08TheDiffhaha
05:57.16TheDiffcase preservation?
05:57.19TheDiffwtf is that
05:57.25ScytheBlade1Some browsers care
05:57.30ScytheBlade1'Location' vs 'location'
05:57.34TheDiffoh
05:57.36TheDiffaight
05:57.56TheDiffso if i put header('Location: thepage.html')
05:58.07TheDiffeven if it was in the HTML code
05:58.10TheDiffit should still work
05:58.12ScytheBlade1No
05:58.16^Migs^yeah, my girls are adorable
05:58.16TheDiffbecause PHP does the preprocessing
05:58.18ScytheBlade1It *must* be sent before any HTML at all
05:58.22ScytheBlade1... or if you have that turned on
05:58.30ScytheBlade1cheater ;P
05:58.31TheDiffhave what turned on
05:58.48TheDiffwell the PHP has to make the webpage before it sends it over the wire, right?
05:58.55ScytheBlade1There's an option to have PHP do that, yes
05:58.59ScytheBlade1But actually, in answer
05:59.01^Migs^we use Netflix's three-in-one deal.  That way, we each get something.  I get the movies I like, whatever that is (I don't watch many movies either), my wife gets her chick flicks, and the kids get their Strawberry Shortcake and Barbie movies
05:59.03ScytheBlade1Yes, but very rarely is that turned on
05:59.13TheDiffokay
05:59.25ScytheBlade1Don't count on it, in other words
05:59.31TheDiffaight
05:59.32ScytheBlade1^Migs^, I'm telling you, move closer to the U already
05:59.34^Migs^use ob_start () too
05:59.40^Migs^dangit, leave me alone, crazy person
05:59.41TheDiffwhat does that do
05:59.48ScytheBlade1haha, fine
05:59.53ScytheBlade1Starts output buffering
05:59.55^Migs^avoids certain header-related problems
05:59.59ScytheBlade1(What you're looking for)
06:00.01^Migs^yeah
06:00.16TheDiffso put that at the top of every page?
06:00.22^Migs^yeah, after session_start ()
06:00.26TheDiffk
06:00.53ScytheBlade1^Migs^, you're only saying that because you know you want to! (move)
06:01.43TheDiffwell, that, and he doesnt want you to stalk his daughters
06:01.45^Migs^well, it would be nice to be closer to SLC
06:01.50^Migs^many more job opportunities
06:02.10ScytheBlade1TheDiff, mmm, 3 and 1 year old daughters, mmmmmm
06:02.11ScytheBlade1Wait
06:02.15ScytheBlade1I have 6 little sisters in my house
06:02.16TheDiffi am getting dangerously close to graduating
06:02.19TheDiffi gotta do something about this
06:02.26TheDifflike... fail classes or something
06:02.28^Migs^yeah
06:02.32^Migs^or declare a new major
06:02.36TheDiffhaha
06:02.36^Migs^DOUBLE major
06:02.45^Migs^has anyone done a triple major before?
06:02.51TheDiffdouble majoring here would take 8 years or so
06:02.54^Migs^I actually did that
06:02.57TheDiffat other schools probably
06:03.08^Migs^I used to be into anthropology, and was going to use that to go to grad school
06:03.11TheDiffits easy to do that at real universities
06:03.17^Migs^then at the last minute, I changed over to computer science
06:03.30ScytheBlade1Where'd you graduate from?
06:03.34^Migs^Weber State
06:03.46ScytheBlade1What'd you think of it?
06:03.55^Migs^great school.  Some very brilliant teachers
06:04.15ScytheBlade1What I'm really looking for
06:04.24ScytheBlade1Is someone who can compare school X's CS degree to the U's
06:04.25^Migs^I've been thinking about grad school, too.  It'd have to be an online university.  Western Governor's University in SLC is supposed to be very good
06:04.40^Migs^it even has better accreditation than the University of Phoenix Online
06:04.54^Migs^the U's CS department is quite good
06:05.03^Migs^you're probably better at the U, frankly
06:05.08ScytheBlade1Hence my pick
06:05.11^Migs^they have a higher budget, if I'm not mistaken
06:05.13ScytheBlade1But I'm still open to suggestions
06:05.28^Migs^you're still not going to live in my basement if you transfer to Weber
06:05.45ScytheBlade1Roof?
06:05.57ScytheBlade1(I'm creative... it could work!)
06:06.02^Migs^my neighbors have an RV sitting in their backyar
06:06.04^Migs^d
06:06.29^Migs^you could move in there.  They'd probably never know
06:06.33ScytheBlade1haha
06:06.39ScytheBlade1Until they see the extension cords
06:06.56^Migs^they have a generator
06:07.01^Migs^if you could figure out how to muffle it
06:07.07ScytheBlade1And provide it with fuel
06:07.11^Migs^yeah
06:07.16^Migs^this could work
06:07.24^Migs^it just HAS to
06:07.26TheDiffif you ignore the whole debacle with cold fusion
06:07.28TheDiffyeah its good
06:18.23TheDiffScytheBlade1: you know anything about this enlighted moose?
06:18.35ScytheBlade1this huh what?
06:19.14TheDiffi have a copy of the UofUtah EE/CPE Communicator
06:19.17TheDiffsome newslette
06:19.20TheDiffr
06:19.28TheDiffit says something about some enlightened moose
06:19.40TheDiffthere is a picture of it on top of the Claimjumper
06:19.42TheDiffor something
06:19.45ScytheBlade1No clue
06:19.55ScytheBlade1I submitted my application to the U a few days ago
06:20.03ScytheBlade1Got a letter yestreday saying that they had recieved my application
06:20.08TheDiffah
06:20.12ScytheBlade1... 30 minutes after I checked online and found myself admitted.
06:20.31TheDiffwhere else are you applying
06:20.33ScytheBlade1It's called "snail mail" for a reason ;)
06:20.40ScytheBlade1Westminster, Dixie, and Snow
06:20.45ScytheBlade1Snow = free tuition due to ACT
06:20.52TheDiffuh where are those
06:21.02ScytheBlade1Snow = middle of state
06:21.04ScytheBlade1Dixie = St. George
06:21.10ScytheBlade1Westminster = 'around' the U
06:21.17ScytheBlade1Close to it anyways, compared to say, Dixie
06:21.44TheDiffyou gotta apply to some out of state schools man
06:21.46ScytheBlade1(Which is on the opposite end of the state)
06:21.47ScytheBlade1Haha
06:21.51ScytheBlade1I've got a 2.9 GPA
06:22.10TheDiffyou could still get into out of state schools
06:22.17ScytheBlade1Like? (I am open to suggestions)
06:22.40TheDiffprobably UC Davis
06:22.50TheDiffthey have a good reputation for computer security
06:23.10TheDiffum, where else has a good CS rep
06:23.39TheDiffthe point is, to explore the world man
06:24.18ScytheBlade1"Thank you for your interest in applying to UC Davis! The fall 2006 University of California application filing period is now closed."
06:24.21ScytheBlade1UC Davis = out
06:25.27TheDiffhaha
06:25.37TheDiffyeah, they are probably closed for most schools now
06:28.31TheDiffwhat about UT - Austin
06:28.39TheDiffi think Dijkstra when there
06:29.23TheDiffexcept its in texas
06:29.27TheDiffno one likes texas
06:35.38scott_is there any reason to run apache 1.3 over 2?
06:52.12^Migs^haha, look now: http://www.justinreeve.com/freeroom/
06:52.13brac[Free Room and Board in Exchange for Housekeeper]
06:52.14^Migs^it got really girly
06:52.23^Migs^my wife told me EXACTLY what to put on it
06:53.17ScytheBlade1You meant that
06:57.19ScytheBlade1Yeah, I'm not interested anymore ;)
06:57.52^Migs^yeah
06:57.57TheDiffhaha
06:58.12TheDiffdude, if its too girly it might be creepy
06:58.12ScytheBlade1You really did go all out on that though
06:58.15TheDiffhave you seen running scared?
06:58.18^Migs^I promise I won't keep pimping the site
06:58.32TheDiffyou should put some bling on there
06:58.34TheDiffand spinners
06:58.43TheDiffchrome and gold baby, chrome and gold
06:58.47^Migs^yeah, the whole background should be a repeating animated gif
06:58.56ScytheBlade1...
06:59.00ScytheBlade1Blasphemer!
06:59.38TheDiffroll out!
07:00.36ScytheBlade1And you call yourself a web designer
07:00.46TheDiffpsh, no i don't
07:00.52ScytheBlade1But I mean... animated repeating gif?
07:00.55ScytheBlade1(@ ^Migs^)
07:00.58TheDiffoh okay
07:01.04TheDiffi was like uhhhh, no.
07:01.08ScytheBlade1haha
07:02.15ScytheBlade1HTML 4.01 Transitional
07:02.21ScytheBlade1loose doctype
07:02.31^Migs^what's wrong with that?  Everybody loves repeating GIFs
07:02.40^Migs^hehe, I'm just kidding.  You'll notice that site is also VALID.
07:02.44ScytheBlade1Never ever have your DTD with anything above it! Even whitespace!
07:02.51ScytheBlade1IE ignores it if there's whitespace above it
07:03.00QBFreaktsk tsk
07:03.06^Migs^wtf?  there's whitespace?
07:03.16QBFreakthere is in FF
07:03.21ScytheBlade1Single newline
07:03.26^Migs^NOOOOO
07:03.26ScytheBlade1above the doctype declaration
07:03.42^Migs^hang on
07:03.50^Migs^well, the site is STILL valid
07:03.51QBFreakyup, looking at it raw from the server
07:03.53QBFreaktsk tsk
07:04.15^Migs^there we go, fixed
07:04.28TheDiffexplain this whole DTD to me
07:04.32QBFreakbetter
07:04.44^Migs^oh, I didn't even notice that?
07:04.47^Migs^why didn't the validator catch that?
07:04.53ScytheBlade1It doesn't check for that
07:04.54TheDiffits the hwole <!DOCTYPE ....> thing, right?
07:04.55QBFreakdoes it contain a newline? is that valid? *knows nothing about this*
07:05.03ScytheBlade1IE is just horribly, horribly picky
07:05.15^Migs^I didn't even want to do this.  I just fired up Dreamweaver and did it as quickly as possible
07:05.37ScytheBlade1Eh, just an fyi ;)
07:05.40QBFreaknonono, you use TextPad or equivilant!
07:05.47ScytheBlade1anything before the doctype = no doctype as far as IE is concerned
07:06.03^Migs^I actually do like Dreamweaver's editor, but only because that's what they gave me to use at work and I got used to it
07:06.15ScytheBlade1I like the code view
07:06.17ScytheBlade1That's about it
07:06.28^Migs^what the heck is loose.dtd anyway?
07:06.32^Migs^yup
07:06.34^Migs^that's all I use
07:06.45ScytheBlade1A 'loose' doctype?
07:06.46^Migs^I think it has some FTP connection features which are probably nice, but I never use them
07:07.01ScytheBlade1FTP is overrated
07:07.06ScytheBlade1It doesn't play nice with any firewalls
07:07.07QBFreakanyway, time to run and get food and watch, since this one died
07:07.10ScytheBlade1WebDAV is where it's at
07:07.17QBFreakyay for fridays when The Cookout is open till 3:30
07:07.55^Migs^when I'm working from home, I use FTP, since I never bothered to get anything else set up.  At work, I have it set up so it uses rsync to go from staging to production
07:08.01QBFreakScytheBlade1: if I do WebDAV on my hosted account, it is not web accessable, and my shell users, FTP users, etc cannot get to it, basically a stand alone repository
07:08.03^Migs^much easier way to develop
07:08.27QBFreakwhich kinda sucks
07:08.35QBFreakanyway, food, laters all
07:09.29TheDiffi have webhosting that doesnt allow for shell access
07:09.38TheDiffso i have to have a test set up on my home machine
07:09.39TheDiffit is teh sucks
07:09.59TheDiffi rock vi hard and frequently
07:11.13^Migs^toodles!
07:11.20*** part/#utah ^Migs^ (n=Stuff@71-37-66-168.slkc.qwest.net)
07:12.02TheDiffi need advice
07:12.14TheDiffwhat do I do if the people i'm helping start a business
07:12.26TheDiffwant to name the business something really, really dumb
07:12.47QBFreakkeep your opinions to yourself? :)
07:13.02ScytheBlade1lemme guess
07:13.09TheDiffbut i have a stake in its success
07:13.30ScytheBlade1;P
07:13.43TheDiffhaha
07:20.01maquisTheDiff: erm... have you said anything?
07:20.22TheDiffmaquis: have i said anything?
07:20.35TheDiffoh
07:20.39TheDiffnot really
07:20.52TheDiffwell initially it was brainstorming, and we were all contributing
07:21.02TheDiffand then i started doing coding and they were coming up with ideas on their own
07:21.07TheDiffand were really getting into this one idea
07:21.11TheDiffand it was like, bad
07:21.37TheDiffand i kind of said stuff to the effect that it wasn't as catchy as some of the other ideas
07:21.51TheDiffand also the name was kind of taken
07:22.08TheDiffso they just added like another word at the end to make it 'different'
07:22.10TheDiffits still retarded
07:26.29TheDiffmaquis: what would you do
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07:52.10maquisTheDiff: dunno
07:53.37maquisTheDiff: if you're in a position where you can do so, i'd be a bit more upfront about it
07:53.46maquiss/upfront/blunt(?)
07:55.08TheDiffokay
07:55.34maquisanyway, i should probably get ready for bed
07:55.36maquisyay!
07:55.40maquisi'll be in bed before 3!!!!
07:55.55TheDiffhaha
07:55.58TheDiffcongratulations
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08:11.03xbmodder_lappyhey anyone still up?
08:11.51TheDiffyo
08:12.09xbmodder_lappyTheDiff, cool.
08:12.16xbmodder_lappyWhat be up my brotha?
08:12.56TheDiffjust coding teh phps
08:13.10TheDifffucking higher level languages
08:13.17xbmodder_lappyfun
08:13.26TheDiffexcuse my language
08:13.26xbmodder_lappyoh, and watch in language in #utah..
08:13.34TheDiffhaha i forgot what channel i was in
08:13.47xbmodder_lappyheh
08:14.18xbmodder_lappyPHP?
08:14.22xbmodder_lappyWhat are you coding?
08:15.57TheDiffeh, some administrative website
08:16.14TheDifffor this webservice thing
08:17.52xbmodder_lappyfun
08:18.01xbmodder_lappyFor your intranet?
08:18.17TheDifffor now
08:18.24TheDifftill its ready to go live
08:18.40TheDiffand get wailed on in the deep blue internet
08:24.56xbmodder_lappyyeah..
08:24.57xbmodder_lappyfun
08:25.14xbmodder_lappyGet visited 1,800 times a second
08:25.36xbmodder_lappyand have management complaing about the load average being 50-60.0
08:28.20TheDiffum
08:28.26TheDiffno thanks
08:28.32TheDiffif it gets that popular
08:28.37TheDiffthen I will no longer be doing this
08:28.58xbmodder_lappywhy so?
08:29.29xbmodder_lappyThey can't trust a college student?
08:35.41TheDiffno
08:35.45TheDiffbecause i don't want to
08:35.58TheDiffi'll be paying someone else to do it for me
08:36.00xbmodder_lappyTheDiff, don't you want money?
08:36.02xbmodder_lappylol
08:36.08TheDiffi'll be the boss at that point
08:36.53QBFreakooo, I found the X-Files season two at walmart for less than I expected to pay online
08:37.35xbmodder_lappyWalmart does wonders
08:37.39QBFreakyarr
08:37.56QBFreakand of course I have to watch an episode before bed...
08:38.11QBFreaknever mind it's 3:40 and I have to be at work at noon...
08:38.40QBFreakI need a DVD player for my tv...
08:38.45QBFreakthen I could watch from bed
08:51.45xbmodder_lappyreally
08:51.48xbmodder_lappythats kinda cool
08:52.07xbmodder_lappyhow old is your computer?
08:53.18TheDiffcss is making me a sad panda
08:55.25xbmodder_lappyoh
08:55.29xbmodder_lappywell then use tables
08:56.01TheDiffnever
08:59.19QBFreakwhos computer?
09:00.24QBFreakif you were talking to me, my video card can only handle two displays at a time, so I can't do svideo out
09:01.11xbmodder_lappyyours
09:01.24xbmodder_lappyoh
09:01.26QBFreakotherwise I would, although I'd need to get more long rca cables
09:01.26xbmodder_lappygreat
09:01.37QBFreakTV is on the other side of the room
09:01.43xbmodder_lappyWell, why don't you get a second video card
09:01.58QBFreakthey cost monies
09:04.03QBFreakI'd froogle search, but when I pull up FF it makes the DVD stutter
09:07.52xbmodder_lappyreally?
09:07.53xbmodder_lappyouchy
09:08.31xbmodder_lappy63 dollars for a nice little GeForce4
09:08.35xbmodder_lappyPCI
09:08.40xbmodder_lappyand it can do dual screen
09:09.12xbmodder_lappyeVGA nVidia GeForce MX4000 64MB PCI Video Card
09:21.03QBFreakyeah, $63 is a little more than I want to spend
09:21.22QBFreakknow any good places to look for parts other than newegg?
09:21.41QBFreakall of their video cards are AGP
09:27.20QBFreakaha, $37 is better
09:28.05QBFreakMX440SE
09:43.54QBFreakI suppose it might seem a little more worth it if my TV weren't 12"
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14:24.55mheathYah, off for my FUN day! =P
14:25.14mheath4 hour hike, then a double shift at work
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16:19.09zekeonfir3Hey, is there anyone around that is an expert at fdisk? I.e. if i've changed the partition table, but it hasn't synced yet (because the device is busy) can I still recover it from memory somewhere and write it back to disk?
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16:26.18^Migs^there are utilities that might be able to do that
16:27.18zekeonfir3I'm looking around, but I'm still shell shocked at what I did. Instead of mk2efs on /dev/sda1 I did it on /dev/hda1. Oops.
16:28.31QBFreakoops
16:28.48^Migs^whoopsy doodles
16:28.53^Migs^I mean, oops
16:28.57zekeonfir3yup
16:30.42zekeonfir3So do you guys know if I just reset the partition table back to what it was, if that will work?
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16:45.12jsmithzekeonfir3: I doubt it.
16:52.05ScytheBlade1zekeonfir3, no
16:52.24ScytheBlade1zekeonfir3, you could always re-create it exactly as it was
16:52.38zekeonfir3that's what I was wondering.
16:52.42zekeonfir3will it be identical
16:52.43zekeonfir3?
16:52.51ScytheBlade1Yeah
16:52.56ScytheBlade1I had a friend install gentoo that way before
16:53.04ScytheBlade1He had a HD which he had nuked the MBR
16:53.13ScytheBlade1Came back 20 minutes later and said, 'best. gentoo. install. EVER.'
16:53.23ScytheBlade1Re-create it as it was, it'll still work fine
16:58.17jsmithScytheBlade1: Yeah, but that's if he only overwrote the MBR -- it appears he also rand mke2fs on the partition itself
16:59.53zekeonfir3well, it's a bit more complicated of a story than that.
17:00.14zekeonfir3I have an internal laptop HD w/bad blocks that I'm trying to recover.
17:00.53zekeonfir3I booted to knoppix & attached a FAT32 drive on firewire to rsync the files and then do do a ddrescue image.
17:01.23zekeonfir3when the fs image from the internal drive reached 4GB it crapped out & I rememberred that FAT has that limitation.
17:01.51zekeonfir3so I figured the internal HD's files would sit put while I formatted the FW drive to ext3.
17:02.32zekeonfir3so I have an external HD formatted as vFAT with a new linux partition table & 40GB of files that I want
17:03.40zekeonfir3and the kicker is instead of mk2fs on /dev/sda1, i wasn't thinking and did it do /dev/hda1 -- the drive I'm trying to make an image of with ddrescue.
17:04.35zekeonfir3I figure if I can get the files of the FAT partition / external HD that will be ok. I was just hoping that I could do an image, drop in the new HD inthe laptop, restore the new image to the bigger drive and resize the partition.
17:05.02zekeonfir3Now, I'm trying to figure out how to do disaster recovery on my disaster recovery drive. :)
17:08.16zekeonfir3Anyway, I'm off to extortion warehouse to buy another HD so I can try to recover files off my recovery drive before I edit the partition table and reset it to what it was.
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17:49.34ScytheBlade1jsmith, good point
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18:12.44emcnabbhttp://www.centos.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=127
18:12.45emcnabbwow
18:16.15ScytheBlade1People are scary
18:16.35ScytheBlade1And liars are funny
18:16.36ScytheBlade1"I am computer literate! I have 22
18:16.36ScytheBlade1years in computer systems engineering and operation."
18:19.54*** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@205.208.239.31)
18:22.54maquisemcnabb: yeah... saw that yesterday... :)
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18:44.49xbmodder_lappy^Migs^, you found a slave?
18:50.00^Migs^no
18:50.06^Migs^I won't keep raving about it until I have some news
18:50.27^Migs^ScytheBlade screamed at me the other day because I was so excited about the possibility of getting a slave
18:50.48^Migs^xbmodder: I made a web site, though: http://www.justinreeve.com/freeroom/
18:50.50brac[Free Room and Board in Exchange for Housekeeper]
18:50.57^Migs^loads of fun
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19:09.45xbmodder_lappy^Migs^, how fast is the DSL?>
19:11.07^Migs^7Mbps
19:11.13^Migs^it's not cable, but it works
19:11.32^Migs^actually, I don't know for sure.  All I know is I had dialup until January.
19:11.37xbmodder_lappyupstream?
19:11.39xbmodder_lappyWow.
19:11.44^Migs^I think upstream is only 784
19:11.54xbmodder_lappyUm, seems about right
19:11.56^Migs^I'll have to check
19:12.15^Migs^and I think that 7 would be for the whole bandwidth
19:12.29^Migs^so down is probably 5 or 6 or something
19:12.33xbmodder_lappy6Mbps is the cutoff for ADSL 1x
19:12.42^Migs^I dunno.  It's fast enough for my wife and I both being on at the same time, and she's not on very often
19:12.48xbmodder_lappycool
19:12.53xbmodder_lappyStatic IP?
19:12.58^Migs^yes
19:13.24^Migs^why, are you rethinking it?
19:14.16xbmodder_lappyMany geeks love fast internet with static IP
19:14.21^Migs^yeah
19:14.42^Migs^I'll probably get cable later
19:14.45xbmodder_lappyjust making sure its not some crapp SDSL 128/128
19:14.50^Migs^no, it's not
19:15.08xbmodder_lappy^Migs^, keep the DSL I'd say
19:15.16^Migs^I don't think it's really necessary to describe what kind of DSL I have.  Most people won't care.
19:15.37^Migs^I don't even care, really, although I should.  It's just great for me.
19:15.52^Migs^it's whatever the Qwest Deluxe DSL package offers, so there you go
19:17.57xbmodder_lappyheh
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19:36.52TheDiff|sleepman, you guys get up soooo early
19:37.17xbmodder_lappylol
19:42.04TheDiff|sleepthis is the worst spring break ever
19:42.08TheDiff|sleepit rained like the whole time
19:42.11xbmodder_lappyI agree
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19:48.57scott_any BYU I Sys majors here?
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19:51.59^Migs^heavens no
19:52.43TheDiff|sleephaha
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20:43.15TheDiffthey definitely banned me from that channel
21:10.14xbmodder_lappyTheDiff, what'd you do?
21:10.27TheDiffnothing
21:10.36TheDiffour lug has 2 channels
21:10.36TheDiffa normal one
21:10.40TheDiffand a 'secret' one
21:10.48TheDiffwhich the veterans always go in
21:11.10TheDiffso they can talk about stuff more offtopic tan the normal room
21:11.14xbmodder_lappy#utah-old-farts
21:11.14TheDiffbut i haven't been in there a long time
21:11.18xbmodder_lappy:-)
21:11.21xbmodder_lappy;-)
21:11.29TheDiffand apparently they banned me from it
21:11.38xbmodder_lappymaybe they banned *@*
21:11.52TheDiffno, just this nick
21:11.58TheDiffi changed my nick and i was able to get in
21:13.19xbmodder_lappyouchy
21:14.01TheDiffits fine
21:14.14TheDiffthey just get pissed because I talk crap about our school
21:14.25TheDiffbecause its subpar in my opinion
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22:42.24TheDiffhaha, yes! http://www.sparkfun.com/tutorial/Clock/SFE-Wall-Clock-35.jpg
22:43.39jsmith-lunchAh... good ol' Spark Fun...
22:43.45TheDiffi <3 them
22:43.51jsmithThey make some wicked-cool stuff.
22:43.56TheDiffyeah they do
22:44.04TheDiffwe buy alot of stuff from them
22:44.38TheDiffhaha
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22:53.09TheDiffany suggestions for cooking chicken breast?
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23:02.50Lone_WandererDoes anyone here understand the pumping lemma, or know what it is?
23:23.59spryes...
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23:24.38Lone_WandererLet me find my question.
23:26.10Lone_WandererIs it correct to say that the pumping lemma is insufficient to prove a language regular, but that it is sufficient to prove a language irregular?
23:26.14Lone_WandererI think I've already answered it though.
23:27.04sprThat's what it does.
23:27.19Lone_WandererWhat's what it does?
23:27.23Lone_WandererProves languages irregular?
23:27.34sprYep, but doesn't prove languages to be regular.
23:27.38Lone_Wandererokay
23:27.52Lone_Wanderernow, there's something else
23:28.12Lone_Wandererlet's say you have a way to prove a language regular
23:28.27Lone_Wandereris it true that there are regular languages which cannot be proven regular using that method?
23:28.42Lone_Wandereror am I misinterpreting Godel's incompleteness theorem?
23:29.32sprhm, don't think we did that theorem. As far as I know a language is regular iff a DFA describes it.
23:29.51sprAll the methods we did for regular languages are equivelent to DFA's.
23:30.12Lone_WandererSo then, is it true that for any given DFA, there is a regular language which it cannot prove regular?
23:31.21spryeah, since a DFA only works for one language.
23:31.38Lone_Wandererokay
23:31.40Lone_Wanderercool
23:32.37Lone_WandererIs it true that for every regular language there is a DFA which can prove it regular?
23:32.42spryep
23:32.51Lone_Wandererok
23:51.12maquisyay for uug election season
23:54.53mrpullboo for turbotax croaking in the middle of my return
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