| 00:00.28 | *** join/#utah spr (n=spr@c-24-10-236-138.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 00:03.40 | emcnabb | so tired, and it's only 5pm... |
| 00:11.18 | maquis | -lart emcnabb |
| 00:11.38 | maquis | ~lart emcnabb |
| 00:16.54 | Tene | ~lart brac for running away |
| 00:17.09 | maquis | that'll keep him from running away, i guess... :) |
| 00:17.41 | Tene | hehe |
| 00:26.08 | *** join/#utah spr (n=spr@c-67-169-251-185.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 00:39.39 | maquis | so, some guy's been trying to jump a car for about an hour and a half today |
| 00:39.46 | tene | oh? |
| 00:40.01 | maquis | yup |
| 00:40.11 | maquis | i've been watching from my window |
| 00:41.02 | maquis | now, i'll admit that i can't jump a car myself, but my guess is that it's probably not good if, every time you connect the cars, the car alarm goes off |
| 00:41.15 | maquis | oh... and they've got it started at least 5 times that i've seen... |
| 00:41.29 | maquis | and then i think they've been turning the car off or something |
| 00:41.37 | tene | spooky. |
| 00:41.45 | tene | I suspect that they are demons. |
| 00:42.27 | maquis | i think they're currently trying it with the jumping car off... |
| 00:42.38 | maquis | at least that's what it looks like |
| 00:42.38 | tene | ... |
| 00:44.58 | maquis | looks like they got it going... the jumped car just left |
| 00:45.05 | maquis | no news yet on the jumping car... |
| 00:46.26 | maquis | ok... they're gone |
| 00:46.50 | maquis | it wsa just weird... because an hour and a half ago, i heard car alarms going off, and i looked to see what was going on (because they were going on and off sporadically |
| 00:46.53 | maquis | ) |
| 00:46.57 | tene | did they vanish in a sudden flash of red light, leaving behind the smell of sulfur and brimstone? |
| 00:47.01 | maquis | and then later on, it was still happening |
| 00:47.07 | maquis | haha... nope |
| 00:47.13 | tene | Hmm... |
| 00:47.26 | tene | I still think they were demons. |
| 00:48.02 | maquis | haha |
| 00:48.14 | *** join/#utah atoponce (n=atoponce@c-24-2-85-66.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 00:48.19 | atoponce | unum? |
| 00:48.46 | atoponce | unum_? |
| 00:49.50 | atoponce | 'a'=aaron 'toponce'=toponce |
| 00:49.59 | atoponce | fairly straight forward :) |
| 00:50.20 | maquis | ah... |
| 00:50.24 | maquis | that does make sense... :) |
| 00:50.50 | maquis | but i could probably make up a distro recommendation |
| 00:51.03 | atoponce | i have been thinking slack, but not entirely sure |
| 00:51.11 | atoponce | what would you recommend? |
| 00:56.57 | maquis | dunno... |
| 00:57.05 | maquis | i like gentoo |
| 00:57.25 | atoponce | everything i read on the web says red hat. |
| 00:57.37 | atoponce | not a fan of red hat based distros |
| 01:00.40 | bigdog_ut | atoponce, i created a openmosaic cluster under gentoo |
| 01:00.43 | bigdog_ut | worked really nice |
| 01:00.48 | bigdog_ut | had 4 nodes is all |
| 01:01.11 | atoponce | i only plan on having two. my ubuntu server, and my laptop |
| 01:01.36 | tene | go with gentoo |
| 01:01.59 | atoponce | why gentoo? |
| 01:02.08 | bigdog_ut | i looked at doing a beowulf cluster but found openmosiac better for clustering |
| 01:02.13 | bigdog_ut | it was at the kernel level |
| 01:02.35 | atoponce | my server is week, and i am looking to help ease it's pain |
| 01:02.52 | atoponce | how hard was it to get openmosiac up and running? |
| 01:02.55 | bigdog_ut | what does it need help with? |
| 01:04.08 | atoponce | nothing too intense. the main interest is knowledge, but it is a pentium celeron 700mhz with 192 MB ram and 20GB hdd |
| 01:04.40 | atoponce | really, i just want to see if i can do it, and benchmark some numbers |
| 01:06.08 | bigdog_ut | it was not that hard to do openmosiac with gentoo |
| 01:06.16 | bigdog_ut | there is a howto that i followed |
| 01:06.23 | bigdog_ut | big thing is compiling the kernel is all |
| 01:07.06 | atoponce | for the client or server or both? |
| 01:07.29 | bigdog_ut | both need to have it installed |
| 01:07.47 | bigdog_ut | which ever box will be in the cluster needs to have the same openmosaic kernel |
| 01:08.03 | atoponce | is it openmosix? |
| 01:08.12 | bigdog_ut | yeah something like that |
| 01:08.17 | atoponce | ok. cool |
| 01:08.46 | bigdog_ut | but if you are just farming out single processes it might not be that great |
| 01:08.50 | atoponce | so what's the difference between openmosix and other utils? |
| 01:09.02 | bigdog_ut | what other utils? |
| 01:09.14 | atoponce | like beowulf |
| 01:09.24 | atoponce | or are they the same? |
| 01:10.54 | bigdog_ut | beowulf clusters i think are done at the application level |
| 01:11.08 | xbmodder_lappy | I have to say I love #utah |
| 01:11.17 | bigdog_ut | mosix is at the kernel level |
| 01:11.21 | atoponce | i see |
| 01:11.35 | bigdog_ut | so the apps will run okay without being modified |
| 01:12.01 | xbmodder_lappy | bigdog_ut, how hard would it be to modify something like Xen to run via mosix. |
| 01:12.02 | atoponce | so certain beowulf apps need to be modified to take advantage of the cluster? |
| 01:12.42 | bigdog_ut | xbmodder_lappy, Xen should run on it without being modified i would think |
| 01:12.59 | bigdog_ut | it is the kernel that would farm out processes to other nodes and not the application |
| 01:13.00 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 01:13.06 | bigdog_ut | but im not sure at all |
| 01:13.27 | bigdog_ut | atoponce, certain apps would be modified to run on beowulf clusters |
| 01:14.16 | bigdog_ut | ***NOTICE*** im not even 50% sure of how beowulf cluster run...i have never set one up...i have just read some stuff on it when i was doing my cluster |
| 01:14.34 | bigdog_ut | but with openmosix i got it up and running with no issues |
| 01:15.24 | atoponce | ok, so if i want to launch, say, mupad, the app will not take advantage of the beowulf cluster by defualt, but with openmosix, it will? |
| 01:15.34 | atoponce | maybe? |
| 01:16.46 | bigdog_ut | i believe that is the case...i could be wrong though |
| 01:17.05 | atoponce | cool. thx for the info. i'll definitely look into openmosix |
| 01:17.17 | bigdog_ut | from what i understand mosix will intercede on the kernel level and farm out the process ot the nodes |
| 01:17.47 | atoponce | clusters utilize more than cpu, right? they also utilize ram? |
| 01:18.01 | bigdog_ut | cpu calls the ram |
| 01:18.06 | atoponce | good point |
| 01:18.14 | bigdog_ut | sorry...cpu uses ram |
| 01:18.27 | atoponce | how about hard drive space? |
| 01:18.52 | bigdog_ut | you have an mosix tmp dir that is used for the space |
| 01:19.01 | bigdog_ut | it is a a filesystem type |
| 01:19.48 | atoponce | so raid through the network would have to be setup seperately |
| 01:19.57 | bigdog_ut | raid is on the server |
| 01:20.20 | bigdog_ut | openmosix uses an openmosix filesystem (mfs) that it uses for processing |
| 01:20.31 | atoponce | right, but i could use the client machine to act as a backup storage to my server |
| 01:20.31 | bigdog_ut | so where ever you put that at |
| 01:20.44 | bigdog_ut | backup storage for what? |
| 01:20.52 | atoponce | web space and mail server |
| 01:21.00 | atoponce | i only have 7 gigs left, and shrinking :) |
| 01:21.04 | bigdog_ut | yeah that really is not part of the cluster |
| 01:21.11 | atoponce | ok, cool |
| 01:21.33 | bigdog_ut | u dont have to use the openmosix filesystem but it is highly recommended |
| 01:21.55 | atoponce | ok |
| 01:33.57 | maquis | did anybody else have the misfortune of hearing the academy awards' mc talking about piracy? |
| 01:34.07 | maquis | (about 15 minutes ago) |
| 01:34.17 | *** join/#utah Jayce^ (n=Jayce_@65.218.37.239) |
| 01:34.17 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 01:34.23 | maquis | ~lart Jayce^ |
| 01:34.42 | bigdog_ut | nope |
| 01:34.52 | bigdog_ut | i dont care for the academy awards |
| 01:35.47 | maquis | bigdog_ut: me neither |
| 01:36.09 | maquis | unfortunately, my roommates do, and i happened to step out into the hallway in time to hear it |
| 01:36.39 | unum_ | atoponce: around? |
| 01:36.55 | atoponce | yeah |
| 01:37.11 | atoponce | unum_, built a cluster? |
| 01:37.15 | unum | you wanted to talk to me? |
| 01:37.20 | unum | I haven't |
| 01:37.26 | unum | but esk helps run a couple |
| 01:37.35 | unum | we've been meaning to have him do a workshop for FSLC |
| 01:37.44 | unum | griznog runs the main cluster for USU |
| 01:37.49 | atoponce | ok- i was going beowulf, but bigdob_ut recommends openmosix. may work well for what i need |
| 01:37.59 | unum | the two of them offered to do a workshop this spring |
| 01:38.18 | atoponce | i was thinking of throwing one together tonight |
| 01:38.26 | unum | openmosix would probably be better |
| 01:38.43 | atoponce | that's what i'm thinking |
| 01:39.49 | atoponce | of course, i think i know the answer to what you'll say, but what distro should i use for the other node? |
| 01:42.28 | bigdog_ut | gentoo |
| 01:43.05 | unum | you should use same distro for all nodes |
| 01:43.13 | unum | otherwise you are begging for pheadaches |
| 01:43.30 | bigdog_ut | i agree with that one |
| 01:43.39 | bigdog_ut | ubuntu might have some openmosix kernels |
| 01:43.43 | bigdog_ut | not sure though |
| 01:44.10 | atoponce | hmmm |
| 01:44.23 | bigdog_ut | but gentoo is better |
| 01:44.25 | bigdog_ut | lol |
| 01:44.49 | atoponce | ubuntu all the way :) |
| 01:44.50 | bigdog_ut | if you already have ubuntu might be easier to do then installing gentoo |
| 01:44.53 | unum | I know someone who breifly maintained a gentoo cluster, he was not happy about it |
| 01:45.23 | unum | I'd rather be using my programs than watching them compile..... |
| 01:45.50 | atoponce | lol |
| 01:46.13 | bigdog_ut | i would rather tweak mine then get everything under the world with them |
| 01:47.13 | bigdog_ut | but to all his own |
| 01:48.38 | *** join/#utah synic (n=synic@pdpc/supporter/student/synic) |
| 02:00.37 | atoponce | what filesystem to use? xfs? jfs? |
| 02:00.52 | *** join/#utah xilch (n=xilch@c-67-166-66-190.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 02:04.03 | atoponce | ubuntu xfs |
| 02:07.16 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 02:14.56 | atoponce | unum- here's a question then |
| 02:15.24 | atoponce | if i were to run updates, and the kernel updates, will i have to reconfigure the kernel for openmosix all over again? |
| 02:17.05 | bigdog_ut | atoponce, filesystem for what? |
| 02:17.39 | bigdog_ut | atoponce, depends on the how ubuntu does the updates for the kernel |
| 02:17.42 | atoponce | for the client node |
| 02:17.55 | atoponce | i think i'll just stick with ext3 |
| 02:18.10 | bigdog_ut | your performance will be impacted |
| 02:18.42 | bigdog_ut | both nodes should have the same configuration in the kernel for openmosix |
| 02:18.44 | atoponce | that's what i was debating. looking at wikipedia, some of the disadvantages scare me |
| 02:19.09 | bigdog_ut | if you are going to do openmosix i would do the filesystem too |
| 02:19.19 | atoponce | when the kernel is hacked, it will be done simultaneously |
| 02:20.22 | bigdog_ut | what will be done? |
| 02:20.47 | atoponce | oh- the kernel configs on both machines |
| 02:22.03 | bigdog_ut | is there an openmosix kernel for ubuntu? |
| 02:22.36 | atoponce | still looking. i see openmosix in the repositories, but i don't know exactly what it includes |
| 02:23.14 | atoponce | i believe ubuntu just uses the vanilla kernel, so really, any kernel should be okay |
| 02:24.32 | bigdog_ut | openmosix patches the kernel with its stuff |
| 02:24.55 | bigdog_ut | you would then configure it for what you need |
| 02:25.01 | atoponce | i see |
| 02:25.55 | bigdog_ut | so im not sure how ubuntu would do the kernel |
| 02:26.05 | bigdog_ut | is there a howto for ubuntu on setting up openmosix |
| 02:26.19 | atoponce | not sure. brb |
| 02:26.38 | maquis | ~seen goozbach |
| 02:26.50 | ibot | goozbach is currently on #utah. Has said a total of 4 messages. Is idling for 7h 47m 55s, last said: 'ibot: -x?'. |
| 02:30.34 | atoponce | bigdog_ut- don't see any, but i do see plenty of gentoo howtos. i am sure i can follow along okay |
| 02:33.41 | levi | Silly gentooers. ;) |
| 02:34.02 | bigdog_ut | always making things easier |
| 02:34.21 | bigdog_ut | atoponce, if you can get your kernel patched then that is the first step |
| 02:34.40 | atoponce | cool- still burning my cd |
| 02:35.47 | atoponce | 4x- the only way to go |
| 02:36.42 | bigdog_ut | atoponce, are you doing gentoo then? |
| 02:36.54 | atoponce | no- ubuntu. couldn't find my already burnt cd |
| 02:37.12 | bigdog_ut | oh |
| 02:37.17 | atoponce | so i spent 30 minutes downloading it, and almost 20 minutes burning it :) |
| 02:38.06 | xbmodder_lappy | :-/ |
| 02:39.45 | bigdog_ut | if you can even get it at the store |
| 02:39.58 | levi | maquis: If you ever have to buy a replacement CD, you're not looking hard enough on the filesharing networks. ;) |
| 02:40.45 | atoponce | arg- burn process failed at 4x! that's a first! |
| 02:41.13 | maquis | levi: true... but i like to stay legal |
| 02:41.29 | levi | What's illegal about downloading a copy of a CD you own? |
| 02:41.49 | maquis | levi: nothing, but you can still get into trouble for it |
| 02:42.17 | maquis | and if you don't have the cd key or receipt, you have no proof that you're not downloading illegally |
| 02:47.25 | levi | Well, hopefully you'd still have the cd key. |
| 02:47.59 | maquis | levi: i used to store the cd key with the cd... :) |
| 02:48.10 | maquis | anyway, i'm just glad i don't have to worry about that anymore |
| 02:54.03 | ScytheBlade1 | So, I need some advice from you knowledgable people |
| 02:54.43 | ScytheBlade1 | My dad bought a new building downtown, I've been awarded the responsibility of running all of the networking, phones, building the server, setting up the phone system, etc |
| 02:55.01 | ScytheBlade1 | The building was largely pre-wired: 8 ethernet ports per office, 12 offices, and 2 phone lines per office |
| 02:55.17 | ScytheBlade1 | So, I'm looking into rack mount stuff, namely servers, patch panels, and switches |
| 02:55.24 | ScytheBlade1 | ... and have no clue what I should be looking for ;) |
| 02:56.08 | nick125 | lol |
| 02:57.06 | ScytheBlade1 | http://www.rackmountsolutions.net/Server_Cabinet_Economy_ERK.asp <-- afer a bit (okay, not a lot) of searching, I came up with that rack |
| 02:57.15 | ScytheBlade1 | But again, I have no clue what I should be looking for |
| 02:58.09 | bigdog_ut | ScytheBlade1, i hate to say it but if you dont have a clue then you should look at really getting someone to help out, i mean almost contracting it out |
| 02:58.26 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm not overly surprised |
| 02:58.36 | bigdog_ut | the best thing might be to go with a dell solution or ibm solution |
| 02:58.41 | ScytheBlade1 | But it's small business, they don't have that on-hand |
| 02:58.54 | ScytheBlade1 | (where that == needed money to contract someone out) |
| 02:59.12 | ScytheBlade1 | I've got the server pretty much squared away, it's a Dell PowerEdge |
| 02:59.13 | bigdog_ut | you might want to check with dell and see what solutions they can give you |
| 02:59.25 | bigdog_ut | i would go with a dell rack then |
| 02:59.28 | ScytheBlade1 | The server isn't what I'm curious about, it's just rack mount in general |
| 02:59.33 | xilch | ScytheBlade1: what kind of server you need? Lots of storage, cpu, etc? |
| 02:59.35 | bigdog_ut | but i would contact dell and get a rep to help out |
| 02:59.54 | ScytheBlade1 | Minimal CPU, more storage. Again, I'm looking at Dell for that. |
| 02:59.59 | ScytheBlade1 | bigdog_ut, with what exactly? |
| 03:00.09 | xilch | ScytheBlade1: you only need a rack if actually have little space in your server room |
| 03:00.11 | bigdog_ut | with specs and pricing |
| 03:00.25 | xilch | the rackmount stuff is going to me more expensive by far than towers |
| 03:00.26 | bigdog_ut | well a rack does provide other things too |
| 03:00.31 | ScytheBlade1 | xilch, it's the organization it brings. |
| 03:00.34 | ScytheBlade1 | Not much else. |
| 03:00.42 | bigdog_ut | it does bring more |
| 03:00.51 | bigdog_ut | power supply units...monitors |
| 03:01.02 | bigdog_ut | keyboards |
| 03:01.23 | ScytheBlade1 | The rack would house one (1) server, then a bunch of patch panels and switches, not much else |
| 03:02.05 | xilch | ScytheBlade1: if its organization you need, go with towers and as much computer shelving you need, and a labeler |
| 03:02.35 | xilch | ah - you could get a small rack for that then |
| 03:02.46 | ScytheBlade1 | Right. I'm not looking for much |
| 03:02.59 | ScytheBlade1 | I have an odd feeling that a "complete solution" from Dell/IBM is overkill |
| 03:03.13 | xilch | ScytheBlade1: how many routers do you plan on using? |
| 03:03.16 | ScytheBlade1 | Single server, just more cables than I can hold at once |
| 03:03.37 | ScytheBlade1 | xilch, it depends on what the ISP (whatever that may be) offers. |
| 03:03.54 | ScytheBlade1 | He *just* purchased the building, I'm still running the needed cables |
| 03:04.05 | ScytheBlade1 | Just researching the needed hardware now |
| 03:04.18 | xilch | How many computers total will it need to support? |
| 03:04.57 | ScytheBlade1 | 16 or so, plus four networked faxes, six networked printers, and three *massive* networked "I do it all at 85 pages per minute" all in one machines |
| 03:05.08 | ScytheBlade1 | (Real Estate Attorney... lots of paperwork :)) |
| 03:05.33 | ScytheBlade1 | The server from Dell, for the needed hardware, is <$1000 |
| 03:05.40 | ScytheBlade1 | Looking at $819 + S&H |
| 03:06.01 | ScytheBlade1 | Again, I'm researching mostly rack-mount hardware, namely 1) the rack to buy 2) patch panels and 3) switches |
| 03:09.34 | xilch | well, if you really want to go rack, then I like http://www.servercase.com |
| 03:10.09 | xilch | but I would probably use towers and standalone router/switches |
| 03:10.18 | xilch | is the patch panel for just phones? |
| 03:10.39 | ScytheBlade1 | Data, actually |
| 03:10.46 | ScytheBlade1 | Too many to work with directly |
| 03:11.01 | ScytheBlade1 | http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=562336&CatId=208 |
| 03:12.51 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm really going to have to take photos to really show you *why* |
| 03:13.58 | atoponce | gads, i'm nervous. i haven't erased a partition for a long time. |
| 03:15.06 | ScytheBlade1 | atoponce, once you've erased it, it'll all come back. |
| 03:15.17 | ScytheBlade1 | I recommended deleting the partition and sleeping |
| 03:15.28 | ScytheBlade1 | And if you have forgotten anything, re-create the partition and back it up ;) |
| 03:15.41 | atoponce | bleh- i've bot bawls |
| 03:16.20 | atoponce | Write the changes to disks? <Go Back> <Yes> <No> |
| 03:19.07 | ScytheBlade1 | xilch, my question stems from this: on the dell.com customize page, it gives me several options for rails. "Rack Chassis w/Rapid Rails for DELL, HPQ or other Square Hole Racks", "Rack Chassis w/Versarail, RoundHole-Universal for 3rd-party racks", "2-Post Rails for Non-DELL Rack", "Static Rapid Rails for DELL Rack", "Static Versa Rails for 3rd Party Rack" |
| 03:19.13 | ScytheBlade1 | And I have no clue what is what, basically. |
| 03:23.15 | atoponce | openmosixview? a gui frontend to openmosix? |
| 03:24.47 | mheath | Hmm, I think I'm going to upgrade to the latest build of Deerpark Alpha... |
| 03:26.28 | atoponce | openmosix only supports the 2.4 kernel? |
| 03:26.42 | atoponce | i don't like that |
| 03:27.09 | mheath | atoponce: Linux is horrible when it comes to cluster support. |
| 03:27.25 | mheath | Its minimal support, in forms like OpenMosix, is a quick hack. |
| 03:27.34 | atoponce | which is interesting, because linux rules the cluster scene |
| 03:27.50 | atoponce | over 75% of clusters run linux |
| 03:28.07 | mheath | atoponce: For large corporate owned clusters. IE, clusters owned by companies that have the money to customize it to their needs. |
| 03:28.18 | xbmodder_lappy | ScytheBlade1, do you know any programming languages? |
| 03:28.23 | xbmodder_lappy | ~seen QBFreak |
| 03:28.32 | ibot | qbfreak is currently on #utah, last said: 'apparently this is a common problem due to a low battery'. |
| 03:28.34 | mheath | Plus, remember that there are things you can do with several computers that don't require native cluster support. |
| 03:28.44 | mheath | Take DistCC for example |
| 03:28.59 | atoponce | DistCC? |
| 03:29.29 | mheath | atoponce: A distributed compiler |
| 03:29.52 | mheath | atoponce: Sadly, a heavy interest in neat distributed technologies has chiefly died off |
| 03:29.55 | atoponce | ah, the disctibuted c compiler |
| 03:29.57 | xbmodder_lappy | ScytheBlade1, your colocating a server? |
| 03:30.17 | mheath | Theres a lot of neat operating systems and software that came out of the 80's and 90's. University stuff, research heavy |
| 03:30.17 | atoponce | yeah- i would like to take advantage of a cluster |
| 03:30.29 | mheath | Unfortunately, most of that is dead and outdated. |
| 03:30.34 | atoponce | even if it is a pain in the butt |
| 03:30.38 | mheath | Take a look at Amoeba, for example |
| 03:30.58 | mheath | Andrew Tannenbaum helped with it for a while |
| 03:31.05 | mheath | Really neat |
| 03:31.06 | xbmodder_lappy | cool. |
| 03:31.17 | atoponce | i'm surprised he still has minix going |
| 03:31.20 | ScytheBlade1 | xbmodder_lappy, yes, several, and no, no co-location |
| 03:31.50 | mheath | GNU Mach + GNU Hurd shows a lot of potential, unfortunately all of its developers are opinionated and argumentative |
| 03:32.03 | mheath | And spend far too much time bickering about licensing and conventions |
| 03:32.16 | atoponce | would love to run hurd when, if ever, it gets released |
| 03:32.27 | xbmodder_lappy | ScytheBlade1, you need a job? |
| 03:32.28 | mheath | Its designed in a way that could potentially give it phenomenal cluster support, but its far from there. Networking barely works. |
| 03:32.43 | atoponce | buggy as hell |
| 03:32.44 | ScytheBlade1 | xbmodder_lappy, this is the second time you've offered me one. Doing what exactly? |
| 03:32.47 | mheath | atoponce: It's been released before. |
| 03:32.58 | atoponce | oh, i know. just not stable |
| 03:33.09 | mheath | atoponce: No, its actually not too buggy. Relatively stable. Just very incomplete. |
| 03:33.43 | atoponce | it just looks too much like a hobbyist project |
| 03:33.54 | ScytheBlade1 | xbmodder_lappy, ? |
| 03:34.06 | atoponce | i don't think it will ever really take off |
| 03:34.13 | xbmodder_lappy | This time it is developing a web interface |
| 03:34.13 | atoponce | unfortunately |
| 03:34.17 | xbmodder_lappy | to xm.py |
| 03:34.20 | xbmodder_lappy | (xen) |
| 03:34.24 | ScytheBlade1 | xm.py? |
| 03:34.26 | mheath | atoponce: No. I'll admit that its a piece of junk and is very unlikely to ever become anything more, but its brilliant. |
| 03:34.33 | mheath | Its underlying design and concepts are phenomenal |
| 03:34.33 | atoponce | it sure it |
| 03:34.35 | atoponce | *is |
| 03:34.42 | mheath | Translators are a brilliant idea. |
| 03:34.55 | atoponce | don't get me wrong. i think it's great. |
| 03:35.04 | atoponce | i would love to use it over the linux kernel |
| 03:35.19 | atoponce | i just don't think i ever will. at least not seriously |
| 03:35.47 | xbmodder_lappy | ScytheBlade1, controlling Xen via a CGI interface |
| 03:36.25 | atoponce | xbmodder_lappy- know of any good python/cgi books or resources? |
| 03:36.33 | levi | Most people using clusters use OpenMPI for their programming. |
| 03:36.37 | mheath | Hmm, the GUI in this is quite buggy. |
| 03:36.41 | levi | On top of Linux. |
| 03:36.53 | ScytheBlade1 | xbmodder_lappy, what language would this be built in? I'm fluent in PHP |
| 03:37.14 | xbmodder_lappy | atoponce, yeah, let me get the ISBN |
| 03:37.22 | ScytheBlade1 | I've got a ~3000 line PHP class that for most all of my work to date, does 90% of my work for me (and I wrote it myself) |
| 03:37.25 | atoponce | sweet. thx |
| 03:37.46 | mheath | xbmodder_lappy: Why are you giving him a standardized barcode number? Why not just tell him a title? |
| 03:38.07 | nick125 | lol |
| 03:38.36 | mheath | I mean, all he's going to be able to do with that number is translate it into a title. |
| 03:38.41 | mheath | He's not a database. |
| 03:39.16 | xbmodder_lappy | 0-13-041065-9 |
| 03:39.23 | xbmodder_lappy | lol |
| 03:39.52 | xbmodder_lappy | ScytheBlade1, hmm... |
| 03:40.11 | mheath | ~lart Deerpark |
| 03:40.18 | atoponce | thx xbmodder-lappy |
| 03:40.46 | xbmodder_lappy | atoponce, no problem |
| 03:41.11 | mheath | Yeah, Deer Park's uninstall program froze too |
| 03:41.17 | mheath | I know this is the development tree, but...come on. |
| 03:43.08 | atoponce | i tried the deer park thing once. no thanks. |
| 03:43.13 | atoponce | i'll run stable |
| 03:43.29 | mheath | It keeps crashing, and the chrome build is a nightmare |
| 03:43.37 | atoponce | i like firefox, but not that much :) |
| 03:43.47 | mheath | chrome objects would randomly disappear, to be replaced with fun black squares. |
| 03:43.53 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 03:43.55 | atoponce | nice |
| 03:44.18 | mheath | Hmm, time to trim this system up again. |
| 03:44.20 | atoponce | for me, it was just getting the stupid thing to launch |
| 03:44.30 | mheath | Thats the problem with this computer, the one Windows computer I use... |
| 03:44.34 | mheath | I'll install some random thing, and forget about it |
| 03:44.37 | ScytheBlade1 | bigdog_ut, still around? |
| 03:44.47 | mheath | I do periodic housecleaning =P |
| 03:44.59 | mheath | I don't know why, but I don't do that with my Linux systems. Not really. |
| 03:45.27 | atoponce | i think for windows, it's needed. |
| 03:45.51 | atoponce | probably because you spend all your time downloading and installing a program you may only use once or twice |
| 03:45.57 | atoponce | then forget about |
| 03:46.03 | atoponce | that's me |
| 03:46.42 | xbmodder_lappy | this is me |
| 03:48.06 | atoponce | btw mheath, the title is "Web Programming in Python: Techniques for Integrating Linux, Apache and MySQL" |
| 03:48.07 | atoponce | :) |
| 03:48.15 | xbmodder_lappy | exactly! |
| 03:48.20 | mheath | ew, web programming in python? |
| 03:48.27 | xbmodder_lappy | ... |
| 03:48.30 | tene | <3 perl |
| 03:48.34 | mheath | tene: indeed |
| 03:48.42 | levi | mheath: Better than web programming in Java! |
| 03:48.45 | tene | python isn't bad, though |
| 03:48.53 | atoponce | perl is the bomb, but when your boss wants everything python or c++... |
| 03:48.57 | xbmodder_lappy | python = good.. |
| 03:49.06 | xbmodder_lappy | C++ = java = bad! |
| 03:49.12 | xbmodder_lappy | perl = ok... |
| 03:49.14 | ScytheBlade1 | xbmodder_lappy, not interested in me anymore due to PHP? :P |
| 03:49.48 | mheath | levi: J2EE can so some weird things that I know it would be an nightmare to do in Python. |
| 03:49.51 | atoponce | <3 python, java and c++ |
| 03:49.59 | levi | mheath: Such as? |
| 03:50.34 | xbmodder_lappy | ScytheBlade1, maybe later |
| 03:50.39 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 03:50.41 | atoponce | levi- print |
| 03:51.08 | levi | atoponce: I need more context to parse that. |
| 03:51.09 | mheath | levi: Security managers, for one. |
| 03:51.14 | atoponce | System.out.println("Hello World"); <-- Java |
| 03:51.15 | atoponce | or |
| 03:51.19 | mheath | I've been using them extensively on some of my latest projects. |
| 03:51.27 | atoponce | print "Hello World" <-- Python |
| 03:51.44 | atoponce | :) |
| 03:51.50 | levi | atoponce: I'm not sure why you're telling me that. |
| 03:51.56 | mheath | I'm not going to sit and argue, though |
| 03:51.59 | mheath | I used to hate Java too |
| 03:52.07 | mheath | For stupid, opinionated reasons |
| 03:52.10 | mheath | It grew on me. |
| 03:52.11 | atoponce | levi- nm |
| 03:52.20 | bigdog_ut | ScytheBlade1, i am still here |
| 03:52.21 | levi | mheath: I'm curious why you think security managers would be a nightmare to do in Python. |
| 03:52.31 | ScytheBlade1 | bigdog_ut, did you see my "real" question? |
| 03:52.37 | levi | I don't hate Java. |
| 03:52.38 | bigdog_ut | no i had to leave |
| 03:52.51 | ScytheBlade1 | repasted: |
| 03:52.56 | ScytheBlade1 | my question stems from this: on the dell.com customize page, it gives me several options for rails. "Rack Chassis w/Rapid Rails for DELL, HPQ or other Square Hole Racks", "Rack Chassis w/Versarail, RoundHole-Universal for 3rd-party racks", "2-Post Rails for Non-DELL Rack", "Static Rapid Rails for DELL Rack", "Static Versa Rails for 3rd Party Rack" |
| 03:53.06 | ScytheBlade1 | ... and I have no clue what to pick, and/or the differences. |
| 03:53.34 | bigdog_ut | if you go with standard dell servers you are okay with standard rails on dell racks |
| 03:53.35 | bigdog_ut | lol |
| 03:53.38 | mheath | levi: It's possible to programatically control the security system of a particular instance of a python script? |
| 03:53.53 | ScytheBlade1 | Right, but I'd have non-dell switches and patch panels. |
| 03:54.11 | ScytheBlade1 | Those are a good >100% more expensive than most any other brand. |
| 03:54.16 | bigdog_ut | i would talk with a dell rep and see what they support |
| 03:54.33 | bigdog_ut | yeah...we dropped $5k on our delll racks each |
| 03:54.35 | ScytheBlade1 | Fair enough. Do you know the differences between any of those, or what the "standard" (if there is one) would be called? |
| 03:55.45 | xbmodder_lappy | ScytheBlade1, where are you putting this system? |
| 03:55.48 | levi | mheath: I think you're comparing the Python language to a Java web framework. Apples to Oranges. There are some Python web frameworks, and I think it's likely that at least one of them does let you do something like that. |
| 03:56.06 | ScytheBlade1 | xbmodder_lappy, behind two closed and locked combo doors. |
| 03:56.18 | xbmodder_lappy | ... |
| 03:56.24 | xbmodder_lappy | ScytheBlade1, in a room? |
| 03:56.30 | xbmodder_lappy | locker, what? |
| 03:56.30 | ScytheBlade1 | Yes, in a room. |
| 03:56.30 | mheath | levi: No. The security manager is a part of J2SE. |
| 03:56.39 | xbmodder_lappy | ScytheBlade1, any old room, no racks? |
| 03:56.40 | levi | mheath: Which is a framework. |
| 03:56.47 | bigdog_ut | ScytheBlade1, i would suggest talking with a rep and see what they say |
| 03:56.52 | bigdog_ut | it might make things easier for you |
| 03:56.53 | levi | Well, which contains a lot of framework-type code. |
| 03:56.56 | mheath | levi: No. Its a standard library. |
| 03:56.59 | ScytheBlade1 | There are no existing racks. However, from what I can tell, the building was previously owned by an ISDN-centric ISP. |
| 03:57.05 | ScytheBlade1 | bigdog_ut, will do. thanks :) |
| 03:57.07 | xbmodder_lappy | bigdog_ut, i bought one of these a couple weeks ago |
| 03:57.18 | bigdog_ut | xbmodder_lappy, a rack |
| 03:57.21 | xbmodder_lappy | ScytheBlade1, if there are no racks, then those options are useless... |
| 03:57.30 | ScytheBlade1 | xbmodder_lappy, I'd be getting a rack... |
| 03:57.30 | ScytheBlade1 | ... |
| 03:57.40 | xbmodder_lappy | ScytheBlade1, just get versarails |
| 03:57.57 | levi | mheath: Having a huge standard library is both an advantage and a disadvantage. |
| 03:58.06 | bigdog_ut | some servers also come with their own rails too |
| 03:59.21 | levi | mheath: I'm sure Java is a good fit for you and your particular task; I'm not trying to convince you otherwise. I don't think that makes it better than Python for web programming in general, though; just for your particular needs. |
| 04:01.43 | ScytheBlade1 | xbmodder_lappy, is VersaRail a Dell thing? Google for it turns up mostly pages related to Dell. |
| 04:02.05 | bigdog_ut | that is a brand they market |
| 04:02.15 | bigdog_ut | its not like a standar |
| 04:02.17 | bigdog_ut | standard |
| 04:02.17 | ScytheBlade1 | Ah. |
| 04:02.22 | ScytheBlade1 | Is there a standard? |
| 04:03.02 | *** join/#utah atoponce (n=aaron@c-24-2-85-66.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 04:03.14 | mheath | levi: my current interests involve using it to create a global distributed object framework. I believe that it, with nice serializable object support and such, is far more suited to the task than Python. |
| 04:03.22 | tensai | our server racks are square hole, our telecom racks all seem to have the same size hole. seems pretty standard to me. |
| 04:03.25 | mheath | Web programming, I honestly don't have that much of a preference. |
| 04:03.28 | atoponce | ahh- nice fast system. it's like a breath of fresh air |
| 04:03.48 | ScytheBlade1 | tensai, is there a page that explains the differences that you know of? |
| 04:04.32 | levi | mheath: Well, there you go. I'd agree with you that Python isn't the best choice for a distributed object framework. |
| 04:05.15 | tensai | ScytheBlade1: I'm just going off what I've seen. I'm no expert. |
| 04:05.25 | ScytheBlade1 | tensai, 'k. Thanks for the info just the same. |
| 04:06.03 | tensai | ScytheBlade1: the square hole racks require a nut that fits inside. that can be annoying if you run out of nuts. |
| 04:06.27 | ScytheBlade1 | Haha, it would be. |
| 04:07.04 | tene | only if your datacenter is lame and doesn't keep a bunch of 'em freely available |
| 04:07.23 | ScytheBlade1 | Well, we don't have much of a datacenter |
| 04:07.30 | ScytheBlade1 | It'll be a single rack regardless :) |
| 04:07.35 | tensai | tene: some of us run our own datacenters and are supposed to stock them |
| 04:07.50 | levi | mheath: ew, web programming in python? <- That looked like a strong preference |
| 04:07.56 | tene | Oh. Well... that's the opposite situation. |
| 04:08.37 | ScytheBlade1 | Basically, I've found some patch panels and switches that I'd like to use. Thing is, I have no clue what rack they'd go in, etc. etc. etc. http://www.trendnet.com/products/TC-P16C5E.htm <-- for example. |
| 04:09.59 | findlay | ScytheBlade1: I found this comment a couple of days ago that may be interesting for anecdotal resons |
| 04:10.04 | findlay | http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=179064&cid=14840299 |
| 04:11.58 | tensai | ScytheBlade1: those would work with any rack I have |
| 04:12.19 | ScytheBlade1 | tensai, and how do you know that? (I'm just looking for general info about rackmount stuff, and so on) |
| 04:12.38 | ScytheBlade1 | findlay, "an absolute idiot" :) |
| 04:12.43 | ScytheBlade1 | findlay, nice comment |
| 04:13.11 | findlay | ScytheBlade1: yeah, I saved it in my comment scrapbook (: |
| 04:17.30 | tensai | ScytheBlade1: those patch panels look just like all the ones we use |
| 04:17.46 | ScytheBlade1 | heh, hard to beat that reasoning. |
| 04:17.57 | tensai | the holes are set in a standard location |
| 04:18.47 | ScytheBlade1 | tensai, okay. So, is it safe to assume that a switch marketed as a 1U rackmount will fit in a rack that supports 1U components? |
| 04:19.08 | QBFreak | 1U is 1 rack unit, industry standard |
| 04:19.22 | ScytheBlade1 | Right. So then why does dell offer like 8 different options? |
| 04:19.32 | QBFreak | width and depth most likely |
| 04:19.38 | tensai | I have no idea what Dell is up to |
| 04:19.40 | QBFreak | the units are height |
| 04:19.55 | ScytheBlade1 | Yeah, I know.. it's all 1U, it's just the mounting options that are messing with my head. |
| 04:19.57 | tensai | never actually seen a Dell rack. My Compaq racks are all just like my others. |
| 04:20.26 | tensai | generally switches and small stuff screw in with ears rather than using rails. as long as it has screw holes at the front, you'll be fine. |
| 04:20.53 | ScytheBlade1 | All right, there's an answer that I was looking for :) |
| 04:21.18 | ScytheBlade1 | Now, I'll be getting a Dell server, unless someone else can point me to a basic one for <$1000 (that's 1U) |
| 04:21.25 | tensai | if not, there's always duct tape :) |
| 04:21.30 | findlay | can I hotplug a parallel port? |
| 04:21.32 | ScytheBlade1 | Haha |
| 04:21.37 | ScytheBlade1 | It's hard to beat the tape ;D |
| 04:22.01 | QBFreak | findlay: I do it all the time, so I think so :) |
| 04:22.17 | findlay | k, I just unloaded the kernel modules to be safe |
| 04:22.20 | findlay | (: |
| 04:22.25 | QBFreak | ah, dunno about linux |
| 04:22.28 | tensai | I like Dell's servers |
| 04:22.35 | ScytheBlade1 | tensai, do you have any? |
| 04:22.39 | QBFreak | I know from a hardware standpoint I've never had issues |
| 04:22.47 | tensai | just dropped $25k on a couple |
| 04:22.54 | ScytheBlade1 | Rackmount? |
| 04:23.06 | findlay | well, guess I'm still here (: |
| 04:23.08 | xilch | ScytheBlade1: I can show you a 1u for under $500 |
| 04:23.23 | xilch | gimme a sec |
| 04:23.37 | ScytheBlade1 | xilch, haha, well, I'm interested, but price less specs is meaingless ;) |
| 04:23.57 | xilch | oh, and every case I have seen has square holes that you put screw adapters into |
| 04:24.03 | bigdog_ut | i could show you some really expensive sun boxes |
| 04:24.11 | xilch | ScytheBlade1: what are your min specs? |
| 04:24.12 | tensai | ScytheBlade1: 2850s, rack mount |
| 04:24.13 | mheath | Its nice to find out that my managers are morons, and that I've been getting screwed over. |
| 04:24.32 | bigdog_ut | mheath, for what? |
| 04:24.35 | xilch | mheath: that does sound pretty nice |
| 04:24.38 | tensai | bigdog_ut: are there any other kind of sun boxes? |
| 04:24.38 | xilch | I'm jealous |
| 04:24.41 | bigdog_ut | 2850s are nice |
| 04:24.45 | ScytheBlade1 | More HD space than CPU power. 80GB HD, no HD redundancy. 1GB+ RAM, CPU should be around 3GHz, x86 is fine. |
| 04:25.00 | ScytheBlade1 | It'll be a fileserver + small MSSQL server |
| 04:25.02 | mheath | bigdog_ut: A clerical error. I overheard a new higher talking about how much he was making. |
| 04:25.07 | xilch | so you don't need a dual processor right? |
| 04:25.11 | ScytheBlade1 | Nothing that demands massive specs. |
| 04:25.12 | ScytheBlade1 | Nope. |
| 04:25.17 | mheath | They've accidentally been paying me $2 /hr less than the standard minimum is for the job I'm doing. |
| 04:25.24 | tensai | mheath: s/higher/hire/ |
| 04:25.26 | bigdog_ut | mheath, that is always the case with every job |
| 04:25.28 | xilch | yeah, gimme a sec on that |
| 04:25.31 | ScytheBlade1 | :) k |
| 04:26.01 | mheath | bigdog_ut: Getting screwed out of about $1,000 and having a manager only half interested when he finds out is always the case? |
| 04:26.01 | tensai | ScytheBlade1: eek! no HD redundancy? you've got a death wish? |
| 04:26.23 | ScytheBlade1 | tensai, all of the data is replicated to another location. |
| 04:26.31 | bigdog_ut | managers always know that crap and still do it |
| 04:26.33 | ScytheBlade1 | Data loss? No worry, and it can all failover. |
| 04:26.49 | bigdog_ut | i remember when someone sent out the salaries to everyone and all hell broke out |
| 04:26.57 | tensai | ScytheBlade1: still. with a nice RAID1 you won't have to reinstall, resync, etc. if a drive fails. |
| 04:27.01 | bigdog_ut | many crap employees overpaid and good ones underpaid |
| 04:27.28 | mheath | bigdog_ut: No. Unless I had tons of our managerial staff blatantly lie to me, it was unintentional. |
| 04:27.32 | tensai | workers of the world unite! |
| 04:27.39 | ScytheBlade1 | tensai, right, right, right.. this is all in the planning stage now. Nothing is even closed to finalized. |
| 04:27.43 | mheath | A temporary moronic manager filled out the initial paperwork on me |
| 04:27.56 | ScytheBlade1 | And it's not like an additional HD is that much money... so we'll see |
| 04:27.57 | mheath | Our payroll services are handled by a third party company, so its all automatic. |
| 04:28.07 | bigdog_ut | mheath, what do you do for work? |
| 04:28.23 | tensai | ScytheBlade1: drives drop all the time. for the money I think it's completely worth it. like you say, it's not even that much. software raid 1 is fine. |
| 04:28.34 | ScytheBlade1 | tensai, windows. ;) |
| 04:28.54 | xilch | ScytheBlade1: http://www.aaronix.com has some really reasonable deals for out of the box rack servers. |
| 04:28.55 | tensai | hmm, well. I think even windows can do sofware raid |
| 04:29.04 | mheath | bigdog_ut: I work on doing final preperation on plates and coordinating things in the kitchen of the busiest Applebees restraunt in UTah, and one of the busiest in the nation. |
| 04:29.05 | bigdog_ut | windows can |
| 04:29.08 | ScytheBlade1 | it can do "driver RAID", and that's about it ;) |
| 04:29.20 | bigdog_ut | oh |
| 04:29.24 | ScytheBlade1 | xilch, recommended by you? pros/cons? |
| 04:29.35 | mheath | bigdog_ut: For $6.50. I have one of the most stressful and difficult jobs there, and I was getting paid far less than anyone else there. |
| 04:29.39 | xilch | ScytheBlade1: most boards are going to have hardware raid builtin |
| 04:29.43 | xilch | for sata |
| 04:29.52 | bigdog_ut | mheath, i hear you...been there done that |
| 04:29.55 | tene | ouch |
| 04:29.58 | xilch | mheath: you a programmer? |
| 04:30.11 | mheath | bigdog_ut: Its not a preformance issue. It is, apparently, company policy that I should have been getting paid more. |
| 04:30.13 | ScytheBlade1 | xilch, under windows? There's a very big difference between marketer's "RAID" and actual hardware RAID... |
| 04:30.43 | mheath | bigdog_ut: and they're fixing the payroll. I just find it frustrating that no one ever noticed, and that I got screwed out of so much money. |
| 04:30.52 | mheath | xilch: I wish. |
| 04:30.54 | xilch | ScytheBlade1: yeah - it's hardware on the motherboard - you can configure from the bios before the OS even boots |
| 04:30.57 | bigdog_ut | happens in many places |
| 04:31.03 | ScytheBlade1 | xilch, :) |
| 04:31.07 | ScytheBlade1 | That makes me very, very happy |
| 04:31.15 | bigdog_ut | mheath, when you get in the professional world it is worse |
| 04:31.23 | bigdog_ut | talking thousands of dollars |
| 04:31.32 | tensai | be careful. lots of "hardware" sata raid is really provided by the driver as software raid. |
| 04:31.36 | bigdog_ut | guys making 50k more than you |
| 04:31.44 | bigdog_ut | that can even do your job |
| 04:31.57 | tene | s/can/can't/ |
| 04:31.58 | mheath | bigdog_ut: Luckily I'm going into and industry where that's impossible. |
| 04:31.59 | xilch | ScytheBlade1: as far as pros and cons, I've never purchased from aaronix, although I plan to soon |
| 04:32.02 | ScytheBlade1 | tensai, that's why I was so skeptical. But, if it works that way under linux too, I'm convinced. |
| 04:32.32 | xilch | ScytheBlade1: I've always bought my servers from universal systems on 33rd South |
| 04:32.43 | ScytheBlade1 | Ohh, a local dealer? |
| 04:32.44 | bigdog_ut | mheath, every industry is like that |
| 04:32.49 | tene | heard good things about them |
| 04:32.51 | tensai | ScytheBlade1: there's nothing wrong with software raid 1, imho |
| 04:32.56 | xilch | ScytheBlade1: I don't care for the dells much, as far as bang-for-your buck goes |
| 04:32.57 | ScytheBlade1 | That's *very* close to my dad's office, too |
| 04:33.06 | ScytheBlade1 | xilch, 2970 S and Main |
| 04:33.13 | mheath | bigdog_ut: I'm going into the US Military. Preferential treatment, for reasons other than superior preformance, is impossible. |
| 04:33.24 | xilch | ScytheBlade1: we're running software raid 0 on a production server right now |
| 04:33.33 | mheath | Payroll is standardized based on longevity of service, position, and situation. |
| 04:33.39 | tensai | <sarcasm>oh, yeah. there's no politics in the military.</sarcasm> |
| 04:33.41 | bigdog_ut | mheath, but you will notice promotions to some that dont deserve it |
| 04:33.52 | ScytheBlade1 | xilch, webpage? |
| 04:33.53 | mheath | tensai: There are no major politics. |
| 04:34.02 | bigdog_ut | tensai, aint that the truth |
| 04:34.10 | bigdog_ut | it is all politics |
| 04:34.25 | tensai | mheath: see if you don't change your mind after you enlist |
| 04:34.35 | xilch | ScytheBlade1: for our server, or universal systems? |
| 04:34.38 | mheath | tensai: www.dodig.mil |
| 04:34.43 | ScytheBlade1 | universal systems |
| 04:34.52 | ScytheBlade1 | But your server if you feel so inclined ;) |
| 04:34.55 | mheath | tensai: that is the group that stops large scale corruption |
| 04:35.10 | mheath | tensai: and that is the group that you can talk to, that WILL do something, if your chain of command is corrupt or won't listen. |
| 04:35.33 | bigdog_ut | mheath, then you will get beat down |
| 04:35.51 | ScytheBlade1 | It's pretty hard to find with google... "universal systems" is a pretty broad search, even when throwing "utah" and "computer"/"rack" into the query |
| 04:36.04 | bigdog_ut | mheath, when you see dataw0lf on talk to him about it |
| 04:36.18 | tensai | ~electrocute harleypig |
| 04:36.19 | ibot | ACTION puts 40,000 volts through harleypig |
| 04:36.21 | xilch | ScytheBlade1: http://www.usicomputer.com/ |
| 04:36.36 | *** join/#utah aaron_ (n=aaron@c-24-2-85-66.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 04:36.48 | mheath | bigdog_ut: I think I'll talk to my dad, who was in the US Military for 30 years. |
| 04:36.53 | xilch | ScytheBlade1: universal are over the top for service, and the cheapest/best local vendor |
| 04:37.02 | xilch | ScytheBlade1: xmission uses them alot |
| 04:37.02 | bigdog_ut | which branch |
| 04:37.12 | mheath | bigdog_ut: Theres a lot of screwed up people in the military. I'll admit that, easily. |
| 04:37.14 | bigdog_ut | and was he an officer? |
| 04:37.14 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm pretty close to sold then |
| 04:37.18 | mheath | Corrupt people, Bad people. |
| 04:37.21 | mheath | However |
| 04:37.40 | mheath | You'll find that the people who harness the power at the highest levels, the levels that matter in the long run, are those of integrity |
| 04:37.50 | mheath | And, remember |
| 04:37.54 | xilch | ScytheBlade1: I only found a few places on the web that were cheaper, aaronix being one of them |
| 04:37.56 | ScytheBlade1 | Heh, never mind. $1.3k |
| 04:38.05 | mheath | military pay and base regulations are standardized by congress |
| 04:38.06 | ScytheBlade1 | Right. Bang for the buck, it's seriously impressive |
| 04:38.10 | ScytheBlade1 | But... it's also overkill |
| 04:38.10 | mheath | Who has the taxpayer to be concious of |
| 04:39.11 | bigdog_ut | mheath, talk to me when you are in the service and we will see what you think |
| 04:39.26 | xilch | ScytheBlade1: call them and get a quote on the system you need - they custom build, so it might work out |
| 04:39.30 | mheath | bigdog_ut: I currently train with the US Naval Reserve at Fort Douglas |
| 04:39.39 | ScytheBlade1 | whoo hoo. I shall call indeed then. |
| 04:39.53 | mheath | I have been through a training programming equivelent to and including classes on the subjects covered in US Navy basic training |
| 04:40.12 | bigdog_ut | very different than being property of the us navy |
| 04:40.35 | mheath | bigdog_ut: LMAO |
| 04:41.02 | ScytheBlade1 | Heh. They're a 5 minute drive from the office my dad purchased, too. |
| 04:41.04 | mheath | bigdog_ut: the reason I find this so funny is, I just got done dealing with the same kind of corruption you're talking about within our own organization. |
| 04:41.25 | mheath | And it got resolved, perfectly, in the ways I talked about. |
| 04:41.35 | ScytheBlade1 | One (left) turn and I'm there. Thank you for that, I'm definitely going to check them out. |
| 04:43.50 | mheath | bigdog_ut: Theres a system of checks and balances in the real US Military that prevents large scale corruption |
| 04:44.15 | ScytheBlade1 | xilch, could I just walk in and talk with them instead of calling? |
| 04:44.18 | findlay | does anybody here know anything about cups? |
| 04:44.25 | mheath | if I'm on a US Navy ship, I have a right to bring an issue directly to the attention of the captain |
| 04:44.30 | ScytheBlade1 | findlay, that it hates me, that's about it. ;) |
| 04:44.42 | mheath | If its a stupid issue, I'll get told off for doing so, but thats a right |
| 04:44.57 | findlay | ScytheBlade1: want to get this xerox xd130df working for me? (: |
| 04:45.10 | mheath | If the captain refuses to acknowledge a legitimate issue, I can contact the DoD's Inspector General |
| 04:45.14 | ScytheBlade1 | How is it connected? |
| 04:45.21 | xilch | ScytheBlade1: yeah, you can walk in |
| 04:45.35 | mheath | Which is a congressionally controlled civilian authority. http://www.dodig.mil/INV/ISO/index.html |
| 04:45.48 | ScytheBlade1 | xilch, good :) Thank you again |
| 04:45.58 | xilch | ScytheBlade1: no problem |
| 04:47.17 | mheath | The DODIG ISO controls the Navy's branch of the DODIG, http://www.ig.navy.mil/ |
| 04:47.51 | mheath | bigdog_ut: I've been looking into this a lot. I'm currently involved with the organization I am in order to start at an advanced rank when I enlist in a few months |
| 04:48.29 | mheath | Theres some corruption with the CO of our organization. Becuase of this advanced rank, she can make administrative remark paperwork entries that will eventually end up in my USN service file |
| 04:48.40 | bigdog_ut | that is good you are doing research...however, remember it is all about politics in the military...though there are things in place you will have issues |
| 04:48.44 | findlay | is there a command like lsusb for parallel devices? |
| 04:49.25 | mheath | bigdog_ut: You (or someone) mentioned the possibility of not being promoted |
| 04:49.26 | tensai | findlay: I don't think so. what are you trying to hook up? a printer? |
| 04:49.38 | mheath | Thats a defininite non-issue in the USN |
| 04:49.43 | findlay | tensai: yeah |
| 04:49.47 | bigdog_ut | there is the possibilty that you can be passed over for promotions |
| 04:50.12 | mheath | The enlisted promotion process includes a test. That test, along with a preformance review by your superiors, is submitted to a national office |
| 04:50.24 | findlay | xerox has crap support too, it looks like |
| 04:50.41 | mheath | Based on quotas, a certain number of those who passed the test and have outstanding preformance reviews are selected |
| 04:50.56 | mheath | Those who make the decision do not know you, and are out of the control of those who do. |
| 04:51.06 | tensai | findlay: find the right driver at linuxprinting.org |
| 04:51.12 | mheath | You are given the opportunity to see and sign the preformance review before it is submitted |
| 04:51.31 | findlay | tensai: none there for my specific model |
| 04:51.33 | mheath | If you have a problem with it, or think its unfair, you have a chance to appeal it. |
| 04:51.34 | tensai | findlay: and yes, you're right. xerox has crap support. I tossed a perfectly good laser printer because it was a linux paper weight. |
| 04:51.46 | findlay | can windows drivers be wrapped? (-: |
| 04:52.19 | findlay | the closest model number is a paperweight |
| 04:52.24 | findlay | and a heavy one at that |
| 04:53.38 | findlay | darn, so much for printing out the complete quartets of Mozart |
| 04:53.45 | findlay | ): |
| 05:08.14 | findlay | so much for finding them anywhere on the web either |
| 05:10.58 | mheath | Thats right! We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty! |
| 05:11.12 | mheath | I demand that I may or may not be mheath! |
| 05:11.44 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 05:14.00 | findlay | I'm partially tempted to reverse engineer a driver for this sucker |
| 05:14.14 | tene | do it! |
| 05:14.52 | findlay | tene: I would if it were mine ... |
| 05:15.07 | tene | do it twice! |
| 05:15.52 | findlay | I doubt my brother would let me keep it that long (: |
| 05:16.07 | findlay | if he ever wanted to get rid of it though ... |
| 05:16.29 | tene | reverse-engineer *three* drivers! |
| 05:17.33 | levi | findlay: Forget printing stuff, go learn Lisp. ;) |
| 05:19.47 | findlay | levi: that won't help me with Mozart (: |
| 05:20.01 | findlay | or Oz for that matter |
| 05:20.14 | levi | Well, it probably would help you with Oz. |
| 05:20.43 | levi | And there's a cool Common Lisp music typesetting editor. |
| 05:22.49 | findlay | heh, lilypond uses scheme data structures |
| 05:23.04 | findlay | double heh, actually |
| 05:27.54 | levi | http://common-lisp.net/project/gsharp/ |
| 05:30.08 | levi | The guys working on that are making some serious effort to produce high-quality output that meets traditional music engraving standards. |
| 05:30.44 | findlay | levi: have you ever used lilypond? |
| 05:30.50 | levi | Nope. |
| 05:31.04 | tensai | findlay: I did. seemed pretty cool and looked quite nice. |
| 05:31.15 | findlay | it is pretty nice |
| 05:31.52 | findlay | not that many people who know TeX and scheme who are serious music typesetters though (: |
| 05:32.25 | tensai | findlay: do you use a front-end, or do you hack the .ly directly? |
| 05:32.33 | findlay | what device name does a usb drive commonly show up as in udev? |
| 05:32.44 | findlay | tensai: I've only editied the source file |
| 05:32.58 | tene | /dev/sdx# |
| 05:33.00 | findlay | kind of hard to translate music into ascii |
| 05:33.01 | tene | erm |
| 05:33.10 | tensai | I tried denemo, which was functional but not glamorous. |
| 05:33.11 | tene | /dev/sd{a,b,...} |
| 05:33.34 | findlay | tene: hard drive is already on /dev/sda? |
| 05:33.49 | findlay | no sdb either |
| 05:33.55 | tensai | findlay: dmesg should say what it used |
| 05:36.26 | findlay | "Bus 004 Device 006: ID 0ea0:2168" from lsusb |
| 05:37.44 | findlay | doesn't seem to be any match in /dev or /sys |
| 05:38.52 | tensai | is the usb-storage kernel module loaded? |
| 05:45.32 | findlay | tensai: had to build the module. I'm always forgetting that. (: |
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| 05:52.12 | elg | am I the only one who thinks pilot g2 pens are ugly and flimsy? |
| 05:53.13 | tensai | elg: more or less flimsy than your network connection? |
| 05:53.24 | elg | less, definitely. :) |
| 05:53.46 | elg | my connection here is fine, it's just the opening and closing of the laptop that does it |
| 05:55.47 | tensai | I thought falcon was your server. aren't you an irssi-inside-screen user? |
| 05:55.54 | findlay | elg: it's probably less flimsy than my jump drive is flakey |
| 05:56.36 | mheath | Wow, I just massively vamped up my Firefox browser |
| 05:56.36 | tensai | as for the original question, I've had no problems with them. mostly I use pens I take from hotels, though. I'm pretty easy to please. |
| 05:56.37 | elg | not anymore. I switched to only-when-i'm-really-here mode |
| 05:56.44 | *** part/#utah linuxalien (n=linuxali@c-24-2-85-20.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 05:56.49 | elg | falcon is my server, I'm natted now |
| 05:57.26 | findlay | elg: tired of logging irc conversations you're not a part of? (: |
| 05:57.38 | elg | if I really need it, I've got brac |
| 05:57.44 | elg | well, had brac. where'd he go? |
| 05:59.13 | mheath | elg: don't worry, you have ibot |
| 05:59.17 | mheath | ~logs |
| 05:59.21 | ibot | apt/ibot/jbot/purl all log to http://ibot.rikers.org/<channelname>/ where channelname is html encoded ie: %23debian | lines that start with a space are not shown | some channels have stats at http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/<channelname>.html.gz, or updated "nightly" |
| 05:59.46 | xbmodder_lappy | We have a man down! |
| 06:00.32 | tensai | ibot's logs aren't always sufficient. for one they're only updated at midnight UTC. for two she ignores anything starting with a space. |
| 06:00.47 | tensai | I've been using ctrlproxy for a few months and really dig it |
| 06:00.57 | elg | ctrlproxy? |
| 06:01.12 | xbmodder_lappy | ~gender |
| 06:01.14 | ibot | I'm lesbian |
| 06:01.23 | xbmodder_lappy | :-/ |
| 06:01.37 | findlay | ibot: you're wierd |
| 06:01.39 | maquis | xbmodder_lappy: you wouldn't've had a chance with her anyway... |
| 06:01.49 | tensai | elg: application layer proxy, ala squid |
| 06:02.02 | xbmodder_lappy | maquis, hehe |
| 06:02.21 | elg | what really gets me is that there's this expensive notebook called moleskine which I'd never heard of, and one of the favorite pens of these moleskine fanatics is the pilot g2 |
| 06:02.24 | findlay | ibot also ignores /me commands |
| 06:02.33 | findlay | I think |
| 06:02.50 | elg | search for pilot g2 and you get innumerable references to how this is the best pen, from these moleskine people |
| 06:03.04 | findlay | must be a conspiracy |
| 06:03.37 | elg | I'm sure the things write well, I like pilot pens (my preference is the v5 rollerball) |
| 06:04.07 | elg | but every time I've borrowed one of those g2 things (never owned one) it had a broken clip, was too light, etc. |
| 06:04.07 | xbmodder_lappy | this is not good... |
| 06:06.09 | levi | Hmm. I have a Zebra Sarasa, which looks almost exactly like a g2, and I like it. |
| 06:07.31 | levi | I also have a Cross pen/pencil set, though I'm not sure where it is at the moment. |
| 06:08.27 | xbmodder_lappy | Anyone here a lawyer? |
| 06:08.44 | *** join/#utah RyanE_ (n=ryan@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 06:08.49 | findlay | I saw a lawyer once |
| 06:09.00 | levi | My dad is a lawyer. |
| 06:09.08 | findlay | my uncle is a lawyer |
| 06:10.34 | xbmodder_lappy | could they give us very cheap advice... |
| 06:10.50 | levi | Heh. |
| 06:11.01 | *** join/#utah nick125_ (n=nick@dsl093-220-023.abq1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 06:11.18 | levi | My dad did mostly military law. |
| 06:11.22 | xbmodder_lappy | nick125_'s mom isn't letting him join Atarack Communications Inc. |
| 06:11.52 | maquis | xbmodder_lappy: what's her rationale? |
| 06:11.52 | xbmodder_lappy | We just need him to send a letter saying that it is legal for a minor to join, the normal yadda yadda |
| 06:12.21 | nick125_ | maquis: what you mean by rationale? |
| 06:12.31 | maquis | wha'ts her reasoning for not letting you join? |
| 06:12.59 | nick125_ | Shes saying that it is not legal for a minor to sign a legal document, as it would be null and void |
| 06:12.59 | xbmodder_lappy | I don't think she trusts me... |
| 06:13.19 | levi | nick125_: It's true that minors can't enter into legally binding contracts. |
| 06:13.29 | maquis | as for the first issue, i'm not sure, but i believe she's right |
| 06:13.33 | maquis | as to the second issue, i don't blame her |
| 06:13.39 | xbmodder_lappy | dwjeiuhfoie |
| 06:13.47 | mheath | Time for sleep |
| 06:13.54 | mheath | So long, and thanks for all the fish. |
| 06:14.13 | xbmodder_lappy | mheath, So glad that it could be it like this. |
| 06:14.36 | mheath | xbmodder_lappy: ? |
| 06:14.46 | xbmodder_lappy | s/glad/sad/ |
| 06:15.01 | xbmodder_lappy | grr.. /me got it wrong |
| 06:15.23 | mheath | I don't understand at all. What are you trying to say? |
| 06:15.26 | mheath | Got what wrong? |
| 06:15.36 | xbmodder_lappy | the next line in the song. |
| 06:15.42 | mheath | What song? |
| 06:15.49 | mheath | O.o |
| 06:15.59 | xbmodder_lappy | So long and thanks for all the fish... |
| 06:16.08 | xbmodder_lappy | (HHGG intro) |
| 06:16.12 | xbmodder_lappy | erghh |
| 06:16.27 | xbmodder_lappy | ~lart nick125's mom |
| 06:16.28 | findlay | I always preferred wget or curl myself |
| 06:16.48 | xbmodder_lappy | ~lart nick125's mom |
| 06:16.50 | mheath | xbmodder_lappy: Erm, theres a song? Just got done rereading them, didn't remember any song lyrics. |
| 06:16.56 | mheath | I'll have to go and take a look |
| 06:16.59 | mheath | See you later |
| 06:16.59 | levi | mheath: The song goes to the movie |
| 06:17.03 | xbmodder_lappy | mheath, the movie... |
| 06:17.12 | mheath | Oh, that stupid thing. Never saw it. |
| 06:18.36 | xbmodder_lappy | maquis, why don't you think nick's mom should trust me. |
| 06:18.45 | xbmodder_lappy | I haven't done anything too stupid for awhile. |
| 06:18.59 | xbmodder_lappy | s/me./me?/ |
| 06:19.32 | findlay | nuh uh, there was that time when you stole my cookie |
| 06:19.41 | maquis | xbmodder_lappy: you're young, you're still in high school... she doesn't know you... why would she trust you? |
| 06:20.35 | xbmodder_lappy | True. |
| 06:21.58 | levi | mheath: If you never saw it, why do you think it is stupid? |
| 06:22.09 | levi | mheath: Do you also think the radio show and BBC miniseries are stupid? |
| 06:23.31 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 06:24.32 | xbmodder_lappy | nick125, |
| 06:24.53 | findlay | xbmodder_lappy, |
| 06:26.45 | xbmodder_lappy | findlay, |
| 06:29.52 | xbmodder_lappy | nick125, PING |
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| 06:34.53 | xbmodder_lappy | maquis, if you were nick's mom would you trust me? |
| 06:35.06 | levi | Heh, silly question. |
| 06:35.09 | maquis | doubt it |
| 06:35.13 | findlay | does a default install of OSX include the scp utility? |
| 06:35.18 | xbmodder_lappy | lol |
| 07:21.27 | levi | findlay: I think so. |
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| 14:47.57 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
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| 15:32.25 | graphyx | good morning guys |
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| 15:49.40 | brando1 | jayce^: any idea what your cost per dth is for gas? I checked power and it's .0913 per Kw, in Sandy we're at .063 |
| 15:50.03 | Jayce^ | don't remember offhand |
| 15:50.56 | goozbach | mor[A[B[B |
| 15:51.16 | goozbach | sorry, bad terminal |
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| 16:17.27 | xbmodder_ | hi... |
| 16:19.01 | xbmodder_ | My teacher is trying to explain web pages |
| 16:21.13 | xbmodder_ | He hates CSS |
| 16:21.16 | xbmodder_ | :-( |
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| 16:30.39 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 16:31.58 | Hhhhh | hate CSS? |
| 16:32.05 | Hhhhh | I don't see why not love CSS |
| 16:35.22 | goozbach | incompetance is the only reason to not love CSS |
| 16:35.26 | goozbach | :) |
| 16:36.06 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 16:37.52 | sjansen | stupid yasting piece of yast |
| 16:38.00 | goozbach | yast you! |
| 16:38.18 | goozbach | see you in 20 mins |
| 16:43.36 | harleypig | http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,70339-0.html?tw=rss.technology |
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| 16:43.47 | harleypig | Cultural Singularity in 50 years. |
| 16:47.19 | jsmith | sjansen: Amen, brother! Yast = Yet Another Stupid Technology |
| 16:50.09 | phinux | xbmodder_: your teacher give any reasons for hating CSS? |
| 16:53.24 | *** join/#utah Peregrine (n=lamontp@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 16:58.16 | harleypig | sjansen: rubberized electronics is stoopid? |
| 17:21.22 | maquis | ~lart Peregrine |
| 17:21.39 | maquis | Peregrine: long time no see :) |
| 17:26.41 | sjansen | Does anyone have a link for the Super Dell interview/rant? |
| 17:30.48 | maquis | http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/03/the_terrorist_t.html |
| 17:31.42 | maquis | why would a terrorist suddenly start paying off their credit card before committing a terrorist attack? |
| 17:32.18 | maquis | that seems rather stupid |
| 17:33.05 | emcnabb | Filepath of the day: /etc/opt/kde3/share/config/kdm/kdmrc |
| 17:33.31 | maquis | emcnabb: ?? |
| 17:33.43 | *** join/#utah levi (n=levi@66.239.25.2.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 17:33.58 | emcnabb | brought to you courtesy of SUSE |
| 17:34.33 | maquis | wouldn't that be like... /etc/kdm/kdmrc? or something like that? |
| 17:34.34 | emcnabb | maquis: it's just long... very long |
| 17:34.42 | emcnabb | maquis: good question |
| 17:34.50 | maquis | (kdm is one of those crazy things for doing a graphical login, right?) |
| 17:34.52 | emcnabb | that is SUSE for your |
| 17:34.55 | maquis | ick |
| 17:34.59 | emcnabb | you |
| 17:46.52 | sjansen | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:48.06 | goozbach | ha ha |
| 17:52.12 | levi | Ha, that's hilarious! |
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| 18:26.17 | Peregrine | Yeah, you know me, maquis ... don't # utah too often :) . |
| 18:28.18 | goozbach | hmmm sould I kick him.... |
| 18:28.59 | *** mode/#utah [+o goozbach] by ChanServ |
| 18:29.11 | goozbach | hmmm |
| 18:32.27 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=fungus@firebat.aros.net) |
| 18:33.06 | maquis | goozbach: who are you looking to kick? |
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| 18:42.29 | goozbach | Peregrine: |
| 18:43.08 | maquis | why kick Peregrine? didn't we determine it was more fun to kick emcnabb? |
| 18:43.48 | goozbach | yeah, but emcnabb has been watcing my back lately |
| 18:43.55 | *** mode/#utah [-o goozbach] by goozbach |
| 18:44.01 | maquis | really? in what way? |
| 18:44.04 | goozbach | I'll just wait in the wings |
| 18:44.04 | Peregrine | :( no kick me. |
| 18:44.17 | maquis | Peregrine: you want to be kicked? |
| 18:44.46 | Peregrine | NO! That's "no kick me" as in "no" do not "kick me" but a little bit spanglish. |
| 18:44.55 | maquis | :) |
| 18:45.16 | goozbach | spangilsh no permitido |
| 18:47.12 | Peregrine | I don't have the Russian keyboard setup on here at the moment, so I'll spare you my really bad speling in Russian. |
| 18:47.15 | Peregrine | :) |
| 18:47.42 | Peregrine | ~lart maquis |
| 18:48.32 | *** mode/#utah [+o maquis] by ChanServ |
| 18:49.02 | maquis | :-P |
| 18:49.08 | Hhhhh | I didn't know you were an op0 maquis |
| 18:49.14 | *** mode/#utah [-o maquis] by maquis |
| 18:49.22 | maquis | Hhhhh: :-P |
| 18:50.39 | Hhhhh | I guess I'll have to wait until you're not on to run my spam script |
| 18:57.31 | maquis | :) |
| 19:10.08 | *** join/#utah mooneroid (n=mooneroi@jmoon.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 19:23.21 | *** part/#utah phinux (n=phinux@hemlock.cs.byu.edu) |
| 19:46.10 | *** part/#utah spig (n=spig@sento1.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 19:46.28 | scottj | anyone use screen as their default shell? in that case, how do you have screen use the right shell? |
| 19:48.13 | *** join/#utah RyanE_ (n=ryan@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 19:48.45 | *** join/#utah flyboy^ (n=flyboy@vm3-ds0.atarack.com) |
| 19:55.21 | goozbach | screen -t /bin/bash |
| 19:55.30 | goozbach | in a .screenrc |
| 19:55.42 | goozbach | scottj: come to PLUG on wed |
| 19:55.51 | goozbach | and learn the ways of the screen |
| 19:56.02 | goozbach | presented by yours truly |
| 19:56.19 | flyboy^ | I love screen. Incedently, I just had the man page open. ;) |
| 19:56.27 | mrpull- | scottj: read all about it at plug.org |
| 19:56.30 | mrpull- | oooorrrr not |
| 19:56.41 | goozbach | mrpull-: give me about 3 minutes |
| 19:56.45 | mrpull- | :-) |
| 19:56.54 | goozbach | to beat sjansen about the face and neck with a carp |
| 19:56.57 | flyboy^ | Why is damian conway still on there for an event!?!? |
| 19:56.57 | *** join/#utah Robdor (n=rob@customer67-50-41-124.veracitycom.net) |
| 19:58.09 | Jayce^ | because we don't have a webmaster |
| 19:58.32 | flyboy^ | Webmaster: Stuart Jansen |
| 19:59.01 | Jayce^ | exactly |
| 19:59.04 | flyboy^ | lol |
| 19:59.14 | mrpull- | ~whack sjansen |
| 19:59.15 | ibot | ACTION whacks sjansen upside the head. |
| 19:59.16 | flyboy^ | That'll do it to you I guess. |
| 20:12.41 | scottj | so with vnc you can't actually log in, you just view a currently logged in screen. what do you use to login remotely? x11? |
| 20:17.27 | mrpull- | wow. when did they redesign python.org? |
| 20:24.13 | sjansen | flyboy^: What are you talking about? |
| 20:25.52 | sjansen | scottj: Depending on the configuration, you can log in over VNC. But neither VNC nor X11 are very good solutions. |
| 20:26.13 | sjansen | scottj: The question is, what are you trying to accomplish? That will decide what the best solution is. |
| 20:26.37 | Uncle_Jesse | anyone think today's a good day to buy AAPL? |
| 20:31.53 | scottj | sjansen: use the box remotely like Remote Desktop |
| 20:33.15 | scottj | goozbach: do you know what settings to put in .screenrc for it to have the behavior of -x -R -A ? |
| 20:34.16 | scottj | Uncle_Jesse: how long are you going to hold AAPL? |
| 20:34.41 | Uncle_Jesse | scottj: depends on the trend - the minute the trend starts to even out |
| 20:34.56 | Uncle_Jesse | or if it loses popularity |
| 20:35.27 | sjansen | scottj: Why do you need a full graphical desktop? |
| 20:36.58 | scottj | sjansen: I don't necessarily..it's one of those "it's nice to have" things |
| 20:39.41 | tene | scottj: freenx |
| 20:39.59 | tene | or real nx, if you want to buy it from nomachine |
| 20:40.03 | sjansen | scottj: Then I would use ssh -X most of the time. Like I said, you can use VNC, but it isn't encrypted so I wouldn't do it with a machine containing data you car about. |
| 20:40.19 | sjansen | I'd also look into nx like tene suggests. |
| 20:41.59 | sjansen | The nice thing about nx, it it's supposed to be easy to secure and much faster than vnc or x11. |
| 20:42.16 | tene | which it actually is, in my experience |
| 20:45.36 | goozbach | scottj: I used too |
| 20:47.07 | scottj | can you run the nx client in windows w/o installing? |
| 20:47.25 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=fungus@firebat.aros.net) |
| 20:51.02 | hatchmt | nx has worked great for me, though I've never tried a Windows client. |
| 20:58.18 | *** join/#utah RyanE (n=ryan@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 21:06.03 | sjansen | scottj: Why would one want to use Windows? |
| 21:08.26 | scottj | it appears that, while vnc displays exactly what's on the remote comp, nx needs to have local copies of some grpahics/fonts? |
| 21:09.08 | tene | I've tried the windows client. It works great. |
| 21:09.36 | tene | scottj: I didn't do anything other than installing the client, and everything worked fine. no font problems or anything. |
| 21:14.44 | scottj | tene, do you know how to go into full screen w/ the windows client? |
| 21:15.14 | tene | I remember that I could do it, but I don't remember how I did it. |
| 21:15.38 | tene | I think that it might have been an option in the connection settings, and you couldn't toggle it in a running session, maybe... |
| 21:17.54 | scottj | yeah, that;s it |
| 21:29.55 | Uncle_Jesse | ~/o $1 is <action> sings with $who |
| 21:29.56 | ibot | okay, Uncle_Jesse |
| 21:30.11 | Uncle_Jesse | ~/o in the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey ~/o |
| 21:30.13 | ibot | ACTION sings with uncle_jesse |
| 21:30.39 | Uncle_Jesse | doh - needs to be the other way around |
| 21:30.49 | Uncle_Jesse | ~\o $1 is <action> sings with $who |
| 21:30.50 | ibot | Uncle_Jesse: okay |
| 21:30.59 | Uncle_Jesse | ~\o in the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey ~\o |
| 21:31.14 | Uncle_Jesse | doesn't like the \ |
| 21:31.28 | Uncle_Jesse | ~\\o $1 is <action> sings with $who |
| 21:31.29 | ibot | Uncle_Jesse: okay |
| 21:31.33 | Uncle_Jesse | ~\o in the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey ~\o |
| 21:32.06 | Uncle_Jesse | oh well... |
| 21:40.32 | tene | o/~ $1 is <action> sings with $who |
| 21:40.45 | tene | ibot, o/~ $1 is <action> sings with $who |
| 21:40.46 | ibot | okay, tene |
| 21:41.06 | tene | o/~ hulking, smashing, I come crashing / nothing like when I was small o/~ |
| 21:41.35 | Uncle_Jesse | needs the ~ at the start |
| 21:41.47 | tene | oh, right |
| 21:42.05 | tene | clever trick |
| 21:43.21 | tene | ~|o doesn't look *too* bad... |
| 21:43.27 | jsmith | Anybody have an Actiontec DSL modem they're not using, and wanna sell really cheap? |
| 21:43.31 | Uncle_Jesse | ah - that one's much better |
| 21:43.46 | Uncle_Jesse | ~|o $1 is <action> sings with $who |
| 21:43.48 | ibot | Uncle_Jesse: okay |
| 21:44.04 | Uncle_Jesse | ~|o soy un perador ~|o |
| 21:44.06 | ibot | ACTION sings with $who |
| 21:44.12 | Uncle_Jesse | doh |
| 21:44.14 | jsmith | Doh! |
| 21:44.28 | tene | hehehe |
| 21:45.15 | Uncle_Jesse | I'm too lazy |
| 21:45.35 | tene | It makes the channel feel friendly! |
| 21:46.30 | graphyx | Uncle_Jesse, ibot get a channel, eh? |
| 21:46.32 | graphyx | ;) |
| 21:48.07 | brando1 | jayce^? |
| 21:48.39 | brando1 | .. im me if you get a sec. |
| 21:52.49 | mrpull- | jsmith: what is really cheap? |
| 21:53.15 | mrpull- | jsmith: i've got one and a 678 here, but I've been too lazy to cutover |
| 21:59.19 | *** join/#utah nick125-treo (n=ptpChat@m410e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 22:00.15 | mrpull- | ~seen spr_ |
| 22:00.23 | ibot | spr_ is currently on #utah (6h 22m 52s), last said: 'wee'. |
| 22:00.40 | nick125-treo | o.0 |
| 22:01.25 | nick125-treo | agh |
| 22:03.33 | mrpull- | what time is the NUPM meeting this week? |
| 22:04.04 | mrpull- | the latest post on the plug list says 6:00PM, but it seems they have been 6:30PM in the past |
| 22:04.05 | findlay | 6:00:00 PM MST |
| 22:04.22 | mrpull- | and plug is at 7:30PM? |
| 22:04.47 | findlay | well, come early at 6 and swap anecdotes |
| 22:04.56 | nick125-treo | lol |
| 22:04.57 | mrpull- | :-) |
| 22:05.00 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp30.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 22:05.15 | nick125-treo | the only lug here is like..total debian |
| 22:05.38 | nick125-treo | :( |
| 22:06.15 | nick125-treo | least that's the feeling I got from their mailing list |
| 22:06.51 | spr_ | 6:30PM? |
| 22:06.53 | spr_ | arg. |
| 22:07.43 | levi | From the mailing list, you get the impression that plug is like..total vim. |
| 22:08.36 | nick125-treo | I should start my own lug here..that would be up more then a year heh..like all the lugs here are dead or should be |
| 22:09.50 | nick125-treo | brb |
| 22:17.44 | *** join/#utah Peaceful (n=Peaceful@67.50.46.118) |
| 22:17.53 | *** part/#utah Peaceful (n=Peaceful@67.50.46.118) |
| 22:18.40 | findlay | I'm going to start the vim/Beethoven/super strings/viola/Dostoyevesky/power lifting LUG |
| 22:19.03 | emcnabb | go for it |
| 22:20.19 | dataw0lf | add funky bass lines in there and I'm totally down. |
| 22:20.32 | findlay | dataw0lf: sure |
| 22:20.41 | dataw0lf | findlay: sweet. count me in. |
| 22:20.46 | dataw0lf | http://dataw0lf.org/gmap.html |
| 22:21.05 | findlay | we'll have a bugzilla for our LUG so that anybody can request speciality additions |
| 22:21.12 | dataw0lf | hehe |
| 22:21.19 | dataw0lf | how about flyspray instead? |
| 22:22.03 | dataw0lf | or JIRA |
| 22:22.33 | *** part/#utah brando1 (n=brandon@blurry.skewedvision.com) |
| 22:23.53 | jsmith | mrpull-: Or, I'd even offer you $40 for the 678 :-) |
| 22:31.20 | mrpull- | http://cbs5.com/watercooler/local_story_059005903.html |
| 22:31.28 | mrpull- | new lug enhancement? |
| 22:31.32 | mheath | Heh, CNNs RSS feed is horrible |
| 22:31.37 | mheath | "South Dakota bans most abortions" |
| 22:31.38 | mheath | and |
| 22:31.45 | mheath | "South Dakota bans nearly all abortions" |
| 22:32.21 | *** join/#utah nick125-treo (n=ptpChat@m410e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 22:32.51 | mheath | Can anyone recommend any agenda / task list programs? Free, but Windows compatible |
| 22:34.20 | mrpull- | mheath: tadalist do the trick? |
| 22:34.37 | *** join/#utah usynic (n=synic@pdpc/supporter/student/synic) |
| 22:35.04 | mrpull- | a bunch of silicon valley coders whacking each other with toilet seats is priceless |
| 22:35.26 | mheath | mrpull-: I'm really looking something with dates and timelines |
| 22:35.44 | mheath | Looking for something to help keep me on track, completing these online classes I need for graduation |
| 22:36.02 | dataw0lf | mheath: like visual timelines? |
| 22:36.14 | mrpull- | i use MS Project (obviously not free) |
| 22:36.23 | mheath | dataw0lf: Not necessarily |
| 22:36.59 | mheath | The best solution would be something that I can input all the assignments i have to do, tell it what day I need them *all* completed by, and have it adaptively space things out for me |
| 22:37.05 | dataw0lf | mrpull-: my friends have been working on competition to that. |
| 22:37.12 | dataw0lf | it's a pretty slick app. |
| 22:37.17 | mheath | I don't know if theres anything like that that exists, though |
| 22:37.50 | mrpull- | mheath: sounds like a nice app. share it if you find it. |
| 22:38.38 | dataw0lf | what would be nice would be something like that and you input the time you actually got it done by |
| 22:38.59 | dataw0lf | and then it could rank various subjects by difficulty and the relative time it took you to finish |
| 22:39.16 | mheath | yeah, and adapt the remaining items appropriately |
| 22:39.24 | jsmith | dataw0lf: There you go, thinking again... |
| 22:39.32 | mheath | Argh, I was looking for a solution, not a project idea! =P |
| 22:40.14 | dataw0lf | jsmith: it's going to be the death of me. |
| 22:40.40 | findlay | hey, I'll help as long as the source language is assembly or FORTRAN |
| 22:41.38 | dataw0lf | how about Haskell? |
| 22:43.02 | findlay | yeah |
| 22:45.58 | *** join/#utah diesel (n=diesel@208-186-183-212.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 22:46.10 | jsmith | findlay: As long as it's well documented, I don't care what you write it in. |
| 22:46.19 | diesel | goozbach: You idiot...not remembering my real name |
| 22:46.50 | goozbach | diesel: you wouldn't know my real name if it weren't for the pluglist :) |
| 22:46.53 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp30.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 22:47.01 | diesel | goozbach: that's true |
| 22:50.15 | flyboy^ | diesel: Hey! No IRC at work! |
| 22:50.17 | *** join/#utah SpecialZ (n=tlsc@128.187.182.24) |
| 22:50.26 | diesel | flyboy^: screw you and screw work |
| 22:50.59 | flyboy^ | diesel: I have root on your server..... prepare for the RATH! ;) |
| 22:51.25 | diesel | flyboy^: I have root on your mom...prepare for the worse RATH |
| 22:51.36 | dataw0lf | Rath? as in Dr? |
| 22:52.02 | flyboy^ | diesel is down the hall from me - incase anyone wonders why he is gving me a hard time. :) |
| 22:52.49 | dataw0lf | fight! |
| 22:52.51 | goozbach | good thing to know I have fans |
| 22:53.02 | *** mode/#utah [+o goozbach] by ChanServ |
| 22:53.17 | goozbach | yes... fight... </mrburns> |
| 22:53.19 | dataw0lf | goozbach: moving to Florida, huh? Where at? |
| 22:53.38 | goozbach | talahassee |
| 22:54.22 | diesel | goozbach: the first thing you will have to do before you move there is learn how to spell the name of the city |
| 22:54.30 | diesel | ;) |
| 22:55.40 | findlay | ~lart verisign |
| 22:55.44 | findlay | ~lart verisign again |
| 22:57.56 | goozbach | diesel: I blame my keyboard |
| 22:58.00 | goozbach | Tallahassee |
| 22:58.36 | dataw0lf | that's nothern florida, isn't it? |
| 23:00.53 | mheath | OK, guys, I'll really see you in a month. I spend way too much time on IRC in general, and I'm going to get all the IRC clients off my computers in order to FOCUS on these classes |
| 23:01.00 | lars-ut | -lart pseudo-RAID |
| 23:01.09 | *** join/#utah RyanE_ (n=ryan@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 23:01.15 | goozbach | it is dataw0lf |
| 23:01.19 | mheath | All the IRC clients, games, unneeded toys and tools are leaving for a while :( |
| 23:01.19 | levi | Bye, mheath |
| 23:01.27 | lars-ut | ~lart pseudo-RAID |
| 23:01.30 | dataw0lf | goozbach: ah, at least you got that going for yah. |
| 23:01.30 | goozbach | good bye |
| 23:01.41 | dataw0lf | mheath: don't hurt yourself |
| 23:01.54 | goozbach | mheath: want some help closing the window? he he *sheepish grin* |
| 23:02.02 | goozbach | I know it can be tough |
| 23:02.04 | emcnabb | mheath: later |
| 23:02.35 | emcnabb | lars-ut: what's the status with the new mobo? |
| 23:02.35 | goozbach | dang... it didn't stick around |
| 23:02.44 | goozbach | my /kick was warming up |
| 23:02.47 | dataw0lf | hehe |
| 23:03.06 | lars-ut | emcnabb: dmraid is too bleeding edge for me - this is production |
| 23:03.08 | dataw0lf | went with the safe pronoun, eh? |
| 23:03.30 | lars-ut | even Debian Testing hasn't implemented some of it yet |
| 23:03.35 | emcnabb | :-( |
| 23:03.49 | lars-ut | hold on - I'll grab the URL |
| 23:05.04 | lars-ut | http://packages.qa.debian.org/d/dmraid.html |
| 23:06.05 | lars-ut | Where I really screwed up here was not understanding that claims of SATA RAID are not really hardware RAID, you configure the array as if it were but... |
| 23:06.53 | lars-ut | when you try to install or boot say, Knoppix, the disks appear as separate devices. Icky. |
| 23:07.34 | lars-ut | The RAID is software driver dependent. |
| 23:08.01 | lars-ut | And you can guess how many manufacturers have Linux drivers for this type of setup... |
| 23:08.30 | jsmith | lars-ut: Zero? |
| 23:08.30 | dataw0lf | That's why I still stick to Unix storage solutions for the most part. |
| 23:09.01 | emcnabb | dataw0lf: or get real hardware RAID |
| 23:09.07 | dataw0lf | emcnabb: Indeed. |
| 23:09.09 | emcnabb | instead of the psuedo-crap |
| 23:09.16 | lars-ut | It is possible, hackable. I talked with Erich over at UVNET about it. He has set it up before by customizing driver setups, but know his kernel version is frozen - unless he wants to hack the whole thing again. |
| 23:09.27 | lars-ut | not worth it. |
| 23:09.36 | emcnabb | lars-ut: especially on a production box |
| 23:09.45 | lars-ut | yep. |
| 23:09.45 | dataw0lf | emcnabb: I still prefer several Unix filesystems for production, sizeable storage over Linux filesystems. |
| 23:10.04 | dataw0lf | lars-ut: definitely not worth it. |
| 23:10.08 | lars-ut | What's worse is my poor choice of mobo: PCI-Express & PCI only. |
| 23:10.14 | lars-ut | no PCI-X |
| 23:10.15 | goozbach | software raid and lvm |
| 23:10.20 | lars-ut | yep |
| 23:10.25 | dataw0lf | lars-ut: yech. |
| 23:10.30 | goozbach | or hardware raid |
| 23:10.40 | lars-ut | hardware RAID would be slower in this case. |
| 23:10.54 | lars-ut | because I would have to run it on a PCI slot |
| 23:10.59 | dataw0lf | what hardware RAID solutions have you looked into? |
| 23:11.02 | lars-ut | not gonna happen. |
| 23:11.05 | dataw0lf | ah |
| 23:11.12 | dataw0lf | yech again |
| 23:11.14 | lars-ut | yup. |
| 23:11.38 | lars-ut | this has been one of those "opportunities for growth" |
| 23:12.00 | jsmith | lars-ut: Yup... |
| 23:12.05 | lars-ut | It'll likely prompt me to write my first review to be posted on newegg - this one will be negative. |
| 23:12.39 | dataw0lf | lars-ut: preferably more complete than 'OMGZ SUX0RZ!' |
| 23:12.42 | dataw0lf | :D |
| 23:12.55 | jsmith | lars-ut: What, you don't like your shiny new server? |
| 23:13.08 | lars-ut | dataw0lf: it will be |
| 23:13.20 | lars-ut | jsmith: I've got one for ya' - real cheap |
| 23:13.26 | dataw0lf | and I need to transport this DEC box home so I can give it the lovin' touch |
| 23:13.29 | dataw0lf | lars-ut: ;) |
| 23:13.53 | jsmith | lars-ut: How cheap is "real cheap" -- feel free to contact me offline :-) |
| 23:14.09 | jsmith | Ooooh... does it still have IRIX on it? |
| 23:14.10 | dataw0lf | lars-ut: ooh, I got an Indigo I need to crack open. |
| 23:14.12 | lars-ut | An Indy that was gifted to me |
| 23:14.15 | dataw0lf | jsmith: mine does. |
| 23:14.17 | jsmith | lars-ut: You jerk! |
| 23:14.22 | lars-ut | jsmith: I have the CD |
| 23:14.28 | jsmith | lars-ut: Just one CD? |
| 23:14.33 | lars-ut | indy cam & everything |
| 23:14.34 | dataw0lf | we should get a estoretic hardware group together, I have alot of stuff to play with. |
| 23:14.53 | jsmith | dataw0lf: We have one -- it's called UTAUG. Mostly phones and junk though... |
| 23:15.02 | dataw0lf | esoteric* |
| 23:15.12 | dataw0lf | jsmith: want me to bring my Indigo to a meeting? :) |
| 23:15.14 | jsmith | But it doesn't get more esoteric that phone hardware, I think... |
| 23:15.23 | jsmith | dataw0lf: No, you might get mugged. |
| 23:15.25 | dataw0lf | hehe |
| 23:15.32 | lars-ut | tok me a while to find an external SCSI CD drive, caddy, & cable |
| 23:15.35 | dataw0lf | I like playing with these DECS more, though. Alpha+++ |
| 23:15.38 | lars-ut | got it all last week. |
| 23:15.40 | lars-ut | $20 |
| 23:15.49 | dataw0lf | lars-ut: oh, man, you're telling me... took me almost a month |
| 23:15.50 | jsmith | Does it come with a free copy of MultiGen for IRIX? |
| 23:15.54 | dataw0lf | mostly because of laziness. |
| 23:16.03 | dataw0lf | jsmith: I got that too :D |
| 23:16.06 | jsmith | lars-ut: I've got the drive, the caddy, and the cable... |
| 23:16.11 | jsmith | dataw0lf: You're not serious... |
| 23:16.24 | lars-ut | jsmith: no idea - it's been a paperweight until now. |
| 23:16.43 | dataw0lf | jsmith: I wish. |
| 23:16.51 | lars-ut | when it was gifted the previous owner requested I wipe the drive before using it |
| 23:16.56 | *** join/#utah xbmodder_lappy (i=nobody@xbmodder.us) |
| 23:16.57 | lars-ut | So I will |
| 23:17.10 | lars-ut | well, not wipe, just format it |
| 23:17.35 | dataw0lf | jsmith: all I was thinking of when I was playing with this was about MultiGen |
| 23:17.55 | lars-ut | I've never played with IRIX before - I just have find memories of the SGI truck pulling up to the office 11 years ago for a demo. |
| 23:17.58 | dataw0lf | I saw a demo of 2.6 at a convention a couple years ago. Almost cried. |
| 23:18.07 | lars-ut | s/find/fond |
| 23:18.28 | lars-ut | I remember a helicopter multi-screen demo |
| 23:18.44 | lars-ut | all real-time. It was beautiful. |
| 23:19.07 | jsmith | dataw0lf: My wife is a MultiGen master -- she did 3D modelling for a couple of years when we were first married. |
| 23:19.08 | lars-ut | From what I understand, SGI designed a nifty bus. |
| 23:19.09 | *** join/#utah Robdor (n=rob@customer67-50-41-124.veracitycom.net) |
| 23:19.26 | jsmith | lars-ut: They designed a lot of nifty things, but couldn't market them worth squat. |
| 23:19.43 | lars-ut | sounds like Xerox |
| 23:20.15 | lars-ut | though in Xerox's case, they likely didn't understand the goodies coming out of PARC |
| 23:20.39 | emcnabb | and they couldn't compete with Linux/WinNT on cheap Intel hardware (that pretty soon was as nice as their low-end boxes) |
| 23:20.53 | lars-ut | huh? |
| 23:21.08 | lars-ut | emcnabb : I'm talkin' 1970s |
| 23:21.17 | emcnabb | I was talking about SGI |
| 23:21.22 | lars-ut | ah. |
| 23:21.31 | emcnabb | sorry |
| 23:21.32 | jsmith | emcnabb: Ah, we thought you were talkin' Xerox |
| 23:21.40 | emcnabb | haha, yeah, wrong era :-) |
| 23:22.01 | emcnabb | I'd like an O2 for my museum |
| 23:22.09 | lars-ut | that'd be cool. |
| 23:22.13 | lars-ut | major geek points. |
| 23:22.14 | emcnabb | I'd have to hide it from my wife |
| 23:22.23 | emcnabb | she's getting frustrated with my collection |
| 23:22.23 | lars-ut | Um.. it's a water filter. |
| 23:22.31 | emcnabb | haha |
| 23:22.37 | emcnabb | it heats water too |
| 23:22.38 | lars-ut | pellet stove? |
| 23:23.38 | findlay | harleypig: are you going to the nupm meeting on Wednesday? |
| 23:24.01 | lars-ut | ~emulate gir |
| 23:24.03 | ibot | to make room for the TUNA! |
| 23:25.55 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp30.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 23:27.10 | xbmodder_lappy | lala |
| 23:29.09 | findlay | ~lala |
| 23:29.10 | ibot | i heard lala is not a teletubbie, nor is @{[die]} @{[op(\"#debian\",\"sec\")]} |
| 23:29.14 | *** join/#utah tene (n=tene@poipu/supporter/slacker/tene) |
| 23:40.39 | *** join/#utah Hhhhhh (n=Hhhhhhhh@128.187.81.240) |
| 23:41.05 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 23:42.16 | sjansen | ~lart Jayce^ |