| 00:00.06 | goozbach | funny... |
| 00:00.14 | xbmodder_lappy | not at all... |
| 00:00.19 | mheath | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:00.23 | xbmodder_lappy | what? |
| 00:00.23 | mheath | I Tried it again |
| 00:00.28 | goozbach | just keep hitting enter and the emacs shrink asks, "are you annoyed? |
| 00:00.31 | findlay | ~lart me |
| 00:00.36 | findlay | ouch |
| 00:00.40 | mheath | asked upfront if there way any way I could talk to a person, because i was obviously talking to a computer before |
| 00:00.48 | mheath | It says, "You are not talking to a computer" |
| 00:00.51 | xbmodder_lappy | force turnoff |
| 00:00.59 | mheath | Then it forces the window closed when I was in the middle of typing my question |
| 00:01.02 | maquis | mheath: did you ask it to prove it? |
| 00:01.25 | maquis | ask it what it's name is... if it says Eliza, give up... |
| 00:01.34 | xbmodder_lappy | lol |
| 00:01.43 | xbmodder_lappy | maybe they outsourced it? |
| 00:04.59 | *** join/#utah SpecialZ (n=Sco--@128.187.173.241) |
| 00:05.52 | xbmodder_lappy | ouchy |
| 00:06.01 | xbmodder_lappy | ~say -lart maquis |
| 00:06.02 | ibot | -lart maquis |
| 00:06.17 | maquis | -lart xbmodder_lappy |
| 00:06.17 | goozbach | ok I need a social life |
| 00:06.21 | maquis | -lart SpecialZ |
| 00:06.22 | goozbach | I just spent the last 20 minutes screwing around talking to the emacs pyscytrtist |
| 00:06.28 | maquis | hahaha |
| 00:06.31 | nick125 | lol |
| 00:06.34 | xbmodder_lappy | haha |
| 00:08.24 | goozbach | ha ha |
| 00:13.56 | findlay | ~hahahaha |
| 00:13.58 | ibot | extra, extra, read all about it, hahahaha is ahahahah |
| 00:16.51 | xbmodder_lappy | ~hahahaha |
| 00:16.52 | ibot | [hahahaha] ahahahah |
| 00:17.02 | xbmodder_lappy | ~whatis echo |
| 00:17.10 | maquis | ~echo |
| 00:17.11 | ibot | echo is, like, Displays the given arguments on the screen. Syntax: echo (arg1) (arg2) ..(argN). Where arg1 through argN are the arguments to echo. Example: echo "Hello World" displays the string "Hello World". "Why echo occurs" at http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-users/2005-February/088794.html |
| 00:17.26 | maquis | hmm.... that's not as exciting as i hoped for |
| 00:18.59 | jsmith | maquis: But at least it mentioned Asterisk :-) |
| 00:19.21 | maquis | jsmith: haha |
| 00:24.53 | emcnabb | this is an awesome required skills section of a job posting: |
| 00:24.54 | emcnabb | Skills: Systems, Engineer, Analyst, analysis, research, database, development, Engineering, Physics, Computer, LINUX, applications, Excel, Powerpoint, security, system, validation, test, hardware, software |
| 00:25.56 | emcnabb | maybe those are the keywords they want people to search for; either way, it's pretty random |
| 00:27.50 | maquis | aren't some of those... mutually exclusive? or close thereto? |
| 00:28.15 | maquis | linux, excel, powerpoint... |
| 00:28.21 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@d53-64-13-210.nap.wideopenwest.com) |
| 00:31.43 | emcnabb | you could come up with some fun word combinations: Searching for a hardware Powerpoint engineer / system validator with strong Linux physics research database experience |
| 00:34.53 | emcnabb | here's another one that instills confidence in those thinking to apply: "Sloaris Administrator" |
| 00:35.02 | nick125 | LOL |
| 00:35.06 | maquis | emcnabb: that rocks! |
| 00:35.06 | nick125 | sloaris? |
| 00:35.31 | maquis | emcnabb: at least that's in the job description, not someone's resume... |
| 00:36.05 | maquis | job descriptions could potentially be written up by some secretary who has no idea what's going on |
| 00:36.15 | emcnabb | yeah, probably |
| 00:36.20 | maquis | hopefully the same is not true of an applicant's resume |
| 00:36.57 | emcnabb | that would be fun to spell it that way in a resume to match theirs |
| 00:37.04 | maquis | haha |
| 00:40.42 | *** join/#utah drewbono (n=andrew@128.187.185.139) |
| 00:43.16 | jsmith | maquis: Oh, you'd be surprised what people misspell on their resumes. |
| 00:43.33 | jsmith | You'd be surprised what people lie about too |
| 00:44.08 | maquis | jsmith: i saw a friend's college apps... i don't know how surprised i'd be after that about what people lie about... |
| 00:44.57 | emcnabb | maquis: like what? |
| 00:45.28 | maquis | emcnabb: umm... let's see here... he went to one debate tournament in all of college, and claimed more hours of debate than any of the regular members of the team |
| 00:45.58 | maquis | he had something on the order of 250 hours of community service during high school listed... |
| 00:45.59 | harleypig | xbmodder_lappy: Still looking for me? |
| 00:46.01 | maquis | etc... |
| 00:46.43 | maquis | just that type of stuff |
| 00:46.48 | maquis | i was rather startled... |
| 00:47.03 | findlay | I bet I've listened to more hours of Schubert than anyone here |
| 00:47.06 | maquis | jsmith: what types of things are the common ones on resumes? |
| 00:48.53 | findlay | can I put that on my resume? |
| 00:49.01 | maquis | findlay: sure... |
| 00:49.13 | maquis | don't know if it'll help... but... |
| 00:49.43 | emcnabb | findlay: no one cares |
| 00:49.48 | maquis | :) |
| 00:49.59 | maquis | emcnabb: shhh don't burst his bubble :) |
| 00:50.07 | emcnabb | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:04.48 | vontrapp | Bradipo: guess what, my festiva got totaled |
| 01:05.20 | vontrapp | in interest of going rates, have you had anybody make offers on your festiva? |
| 01:05.45 | vontrapp | i've actually already gotten the check from the insurance |
| 01:05.57 | vontrapp | they gave me $950 |
| 01:23.41 | tensai | maquis: ping |
| 01:25.38 | maquis | tensai: pong |
| 01:27.00 | jsmith | maquis: Slow response, but the most common ones are people claiming to be proficient in programming languages they aren't, or people claiming to be an "expert" or "guru" at something, because they can get it installed. |
| 01:27.17 | maquis | jsmith: ah... |
| 01:27.44 | jsmith | maquis: When I interviewed people, I asked them to write down their favorite three programming languages (with the one they're most proficient at at the top) |
| 01:28.12 | maquis | jsmith: what types of things do you get? |
| 01:28.13 | jsmith | maquis: Then, I'd ask them to write a simple function to do some basic string manipulation in any language of their choice. |
| 01:28.22 | maquis | ok |
| 01:28.37 | maquis | nick125: not dead yet |
| 01:28.39 | jsmith | maquis: 8 times out of 10, they couldn't do simple string manipulation in the language they claimed to be most proficient in. |
| 01:28.57 | maquis | jsmith: what kind of basic string manipulation? ie, what's an example? |
| 01:29.04 | jsmith | maquis: And when I'd call them on it, they'd claim they were just writing down the answer they thought I wanted to hear. |
| 01:29.13 | nick125_ | only downloading at 150K/s on my 3mbit line and its lagging. |
| 01:29.52 | jsmith | maquis: Write me a function that takes three arguments... a string, and integer, and a string. The function should return the string, the integer, and the string concatenated together. |
| 01:30.23 | jsmith | maquis: I'd even be nice --- I'd say "If the three arguments are 'blue' and '5' and 'red', the function should return 'blue5red'" |
| 01:30.29 | maquis | jsmith: a fun question for you to try during an interview: come up with an algorithm that takes in a number and outputs it in roman numerals |
| 01:30.42 | maquis | jsmith: that doesn't seem too bad.... |
| 01:30.49 | jsmith | No, it should be simple. |
| 01:30.49 | maquis | particularly in certain languages |
| 01:31.30 | maquis | i can see some mistakes one could make in languages for which there'd be memory management issues (like C), but it still shouldn't be *that* bad |
| 01:31.35 | maquis | and if you get to choose the language... |
| 01:31.39 | nick125_ | brb |
| 01:31.50 | maquis | although, i can see someone choosing a language they don't know as well, if it's easier to write |
| 01:33.34 | tensai | jsmith: do they get bonus points if the function is recursive? :) |
| 01:34.02 | maquis | recursive? |
| 01:34.27 | maquis | i guess.... in scheme you might be able to... |
| 01:34.29 | *** join/#utah xbmodder_lappy (n=xbmodder@c-67-169-8-134.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 01:36.54 | tensai | maquis: in C it'd be difficult, but in a typeless language like perl it'd be cake |
| 01:37.07 | *** join/#utah nick125_ (n=nick@dsl093-220-003.abq1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 01:37.17 | maquis | tensai: true |
| 01:37.19 | nick125_ | wtf is this piece of crap speakeasy sent me |
| 01:37.42 | maquis | although, it'd be easy to do it non-recursively that way too |
| 01:37.44 | nick125_ | 8012-V1 |
| 01:37.52 | tensai | nick125_: I truly hope it's not a honest to goodness piece of feces |
| 01:38.14 | nick125_ | tensai: if it was sent out by this one representive, i would seriously expect it to be.. |
| 01:38.25 | nick125_ | but it was sent out by someone else |
| 01:40.23 | nick125_ | omg this latency is horrible |
| 01:40.37 | nick125_ | 64 bytes from 64.233.167.99: icmp_seq=1 ttl=248 time=315 ms |
| 01:40.40 | nick125_ | 64 bytes from 64.233.167.99: icmp_seq=2 ttl=248 time=297 ms |
| 01:40.40 | nick125_ | 64 bytes from 64.233.167.99: icmp_seq=3 ttl=248 time=311 ms |
| 01:40.58 | nick125_ | 64 bytes from www.speakeasy.net (69.17.117.156): icmp_seq=1 ttl=60 time=240 ms |
| 01:41.02 | nick125_ | 64 bytes from www.speakeasy.net (69.17.117.156): icmp_seq=2 ttl=60 time=244 ms |
| 01:41.02 | nick125_ | ROFL |
| 01:41.05 | nick125_ | this is horrible.. |
| 01:41.54 | nick125_ | oh wow.. |
| 01:41.59 | nick125_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:42.01 | nick125_ | wtf |
| 01:45.36 | nick125_ | xbmodder_lappy: are you seeing this? :o |
| 02:13.43 | nick125_ | mm..interesting.. |
| 02:14.04 | nick125_ | i wonder if covad is ever gonna offer 8/1 service anytime soon.. |
| 02:14.05 | nick125_ | 542 : LPVA-IP TeleSOHO 8.0/1.0 (Professional-Install) |
| 02:14.05 | nick125_ | 543 : LPVA-IP TeleSOHO 8.0/1.0 (Self-Install) |
| 02:14.05 | nick125_ | 544 : LPVA-IP TeleSOHO 8.0/1.0 (Access Only) |
| 02:15.31 | nick125_ | looks like covad's API uses XML..interesting |
| 02:20.34 | nick125_ | wooaah.. |
| 02:43.18 | maquis | this shouldn't be this hard |
| 02:44.04 | mrpull-x | maquis: what are you battling? |
| 02:46.15 | maquis | mrpull-x: nothing hard... |
| 02:46.19 | Lone_Wanderer | So, does anyone know how I can go about modding a game I like (but would prefer to see improved)? |
| 02:46.45 | maquis | i'm trying to get my program to output to stdout and a file, and for some reason i'm hvaing trouble finding the answer anywhere |
| 02:46.51 | maquis | i'm guessing i need to use tee... |
| 02:47.01 | mrpull-x | tee would be my suggestion |
| 02:47.20 | ScytheBlade1 | Lone_Wanderer, what game? |
| 02:47.43 | Lone_Wanderer | Colonization |
| 02:47.50 | mrpull-x | prog | tee out.txt doesn't do the trick? |
| 02:47.53 | Lone_Wanderer | first ever game by Sid Meier |
| 02:47.55 | maquis | mrpull-x: yeah... i'm just struggling with my google skills today, i think |
| 02:48.02 | maquis | mrpull-x: doesn't appear to be doing it |
| 02:48.16 | mrpull-x | is the output formatted in a goofy way? |
| 02:48.22 | ScytheBlade1 | Lone_Wanderer, which one is that? |
| 02:48.22 | maquis | no... |
| 02:48.27 | maquis | it's just printfs |
| 02:48.31 | Lone_Wanderer | Colonization |
| 02:48.44 | ScytheBlade1 | I don't remember that one |
| 02:48.51 | Lone_Wanderer | It's oooooold. |
| 02:48.53 | maquis | i'm just having google issues today :) |
| 02:48.53 | mrpull-x | which part isn't working... writing to stdout or writing to the file? |
| 02:48.54 | Lone_Wanderer | I can send you a copy if you want. |
| 02:49.02 | Lone_Wanderer | I really enjoy it. |
| 02:49.16 | ScytheBlade1 | Eh, busy atm ;) |
| 02:49.19 | *** join/#utah atoponce (n=keritopo@c-24-2-85-66.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 02:49.21 | Lone_Wanderer | In fact I'd be playing it right now if I weren't trying to figure out how to bring it up to date. |
| 02:50.32 | maquis | mrpull-x: judging from ls | tee foo.txt, that shold be working... |
| 02:50.46 | maquis | i guess my problems are different from what i thought they were... :) |
| 02:51.25 | mrpull-x | the program does print to the console without the pipeline? |
| 02:51.35 | maquis | yeah |
| 02:51.41 | maquis | hmmm |
| 02:51.47 | maquis | i did manage to get it to print *something* |
| 02:52.06 | maquis | unfortunately, it wouldn't print the prompts i give |
| 02:52.17 | maquis | so, what it printed was the error when i gave it the wrong thing |
| 02:52.50 | mrpull-x | so the program is interactive? and you want to log the session? |
| 02:53.06 | maquis | honestly, i just want the output at the end |
| 02:53.07 | maquis | :) |
| 02:56.27 | mrpull-x | will "script" do the trick? |
| 02:56.33 | maquis | dunno |
| 02:56.35 | maquis | i'll try that |
| 02:57.55 | maquis | mrpull-x: looks like that'll do it... |
| 02:57.57 | maquis | thanks:) |
| 03:01.03 | mrpull-x | lucky guess. i believe screen can do that too, but I cant find the switch. |
| 03:06.23 | goozbach | look up logging |
| 03:06.28 | goozbach | in the screen man page |
| 03:06.46 | maquis | goozbach: gnight :) |
| 03:06.48 | maquis | get some sleep |
| 03:06.57 | mrpull-x | my silly shell accounts doesn't have man pages :-/ |
| 03:07.01 | mrpull-x | silly xmission |
| 03:07.06 | goozbach | info pages then |
| 03:07.15 | maquis | haha |
| 03:07.16 | maquis | wow |
| 03:07.19 | maquis | that's crazy |
| 03:07.32 | mrpull-x | heh... i always forget info |
| 03:07.56 | tensai | mrpull-x: try the woman pages. you'll never understand them, but you won't be able to stop |
| 03:08.16 | maquis | hahahaha |
| 03:08.30 | atoponce | anyone running ubuntu breezy? |
| 03:08.56 | maquis | not me |
| 03:09.09 | goozbach | FYI I'll be doing the plug meeting next week on Screen and Shell tricks |
| 03:09.39 | mrpull-x | goozbach: i'll look forward to that one. i use screen as a one trick pony and know it can do more cool stuff. |
| 03:09.47 | atoponce | just curious, as the password dialog box border is missing when running synaptic update |
| 03:10.05 | maquis | password dialog box border? |
| 03:10.07 | mrpull-x | some of the recent topics haven't been as attractive to me |
| 03:10.16 | atoponce | yeah. the window border |
| 03:10.30 | atoponce | to the password dialog that pops up asking for your password |
| 03:10.36 | maquis | hmmm... |
| 03:10.42 | maquis | out of my league :) |
| 03:10.44 | mrpull-x | atoponce: it kinda takes over the whole screen? |
| 03:10.55 | atoponce | no, it's small |
| 03:10.58 | mrpull-x | i run ubuntu on my old laptop |
| 03:11.09 | mrpull-x | atoponce: but it cant be moved right? |
| 03:11.13 | atoponce | right |
| 03:11.22 | mrpull-x | atoponce: and is on top of all the windows? |
| 03:11.23 | atoponce | no "x" to close the window or anything |
| 03:11.34 | mrpull-x | no cancel button? |
| 03:11.39 | atoponce | yeah- just when running the updates after being notified. |
| 03:11.42 | atoponce | nope |
| 03:11.54 | mrpull-x | it is asking for _your_ password, not root's |
| 03:11.57 | atoponce | right |
| 03:12.22 | mrpull-x | i'm running dapper, but i dont remember that bothering me. what is your concern? |
| 03:13.03 | atoponce | just annoying. i keep thinking something is wrong with my install, but my server, laptop and desktop all have the same problem |
| 03:13.32 | atoponce | i have tried changing themes to see if that fixes the issue, but it doesn't |
| 03:13.35 | atoponce | and it's only in gnome |
| 03:14.07 | atoponce | you know what i am talking about, right? |
| 03:15.32 | mrpull-x | i think i know what you are talking about. the screen that comes up anytime you need escalated privs. |
| 03:15.59 | mrpull-x | i believe on mine it makes everything else dim until i put in the password |
| 03:16.17 | atoponce | pretty much. i notice it most when i am prompted that updates are available, and i click the link to install the updates |
| 03:16.28 | atoponce | you say you are running dapper? |
| 03:17.07 | mrpull-x | yes. i dont use linux as a primary OS, so I like to use fairly bleeding edge distros when I do |
| 03:17.29 | mrpull-x | it feels a little faster than breezy on the same hardware |
| 03:17.49 | atoponce | any issues with crashing. |
| 03:19.25 | mrpull-x | no crashing, but 70+ MB's of updates every day |
| 03:19.34 | atoponce | i bet. |
| 03:20.18 | mrpull-x | i dont code, so I think i can contribute by using alpha/beta stuff and report bugs |
| 03:20.36 | atoponce | that works. |
| 03:21.00 | atoponce | i have asked about the issue on the forums and in the channels, but no one seems to know, yet everyone has the same issue. |
| 03:21.03 | atoponce | :) |
| 03:21.05 | atoponce | oh well |
| 03:21.43 | mrpull-x | IIRC, that is very similar behavior to OSX |
| 03:22.24 | atoponce | i prefer colloquy, personally |
| 03:22.37 | atoponce | it's actually what i am using now on my wife's ibook |
| 03:23.33 | mrpull-x | heheh... i meant If I Remember Correctly (IIRC), OSX has a similar prompt for credentials as you described |
| 03:24.27 | atoponce | ahh. my mistake. :) |
| 03:24.54 | atoponce | os x at least has the window border |
| 03:25.02 | atoponce | even if everything is greyed out |
| 03:25.53 | mrpull-x | no option to cancel seems like it would violate gnome's HIG |
| 03:26.00 | atoponce | true |
| 03:26.18 | atoponce | well, i gotta get a letter written (my wife is buggin me about it) |
| 03:27.00 | maquis | w00t! i got to be helpful to someone again! |
| 03:27.30 | mrpull-x | http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/2.0/windows-alert.html#alerts-authentication |
| 03:27.37 | mrpull-x | doh. he left. |
| 03:31.21 | ScytheBlade1 | heh |
| 03:31.23 | ScytheBlade1 | Good ol' IIS |
| 03:32.20 | findlay | IIS, SSI, ISS? that's way too confusing |
| 03:32.48 | ScytheBlade1 | IIS, Internet Information Services (aka MS's web server) |
| 03:32.56 | findlay | ~SSI |
| 03:32.58 | ibot | somebody said ssi was Server Side Include, a Good Thing in a web server. or at http://hoohoo.ncsa.uiuc.edu/docs/tutorials/includes.html#Format |
| 03:32.59 | brac | [NCSA HTTPd Tutorial: Server Side Includes (SSI)] |
| 03:33.07 | findlay | ~ISS |
| 03:33.39 | ScytheBlade1 | ~IIS |
| 03:33.40 | ibot | iis is probably Microsoft's idea of how a web server should work. buggier than sin and about half as flexible. Internet Information Suckers, or a piece of , wait, you know that. |
| 03:35.14 | findlay | ibot: ISS is International Space Station |
| 03:35.16 | ibot | findlay: okay |
| 03:36.14 | findlay | ~SIS |
| 03:36.15 | ibot | extra, extra, read all about it, sis is lame |
| 03:36.29 | ScytheBlade1 | haha |
| 03:36.31 | ScytheBlade1 | That one wins |
| 03:36.53 | findlay | ibot: SiS is also Silicon Integrated Systems |
| 03:36.54 | ibot | findlay: okay |
| 03:39.21 | findlay | IIS, ISS, SSI, SIS. Is there an SII? |
| 03:39.22 | mrpull-x | IIS is great for certain apps |
| 03:39.30 | findlay | ~SII |
| 03:39.46 | findlay | ibot: SII is Something Incredible Inane |
| 03:39.49 | ibot | findlay: okay |
| 03:42.39 | findlay | ~ISI |
| 03:42.40 | ibot | somebody said isi was \"Ingénierie des Sytèmes Informatiques\" |
| 03:43.10 | *** join/#utah drewbono (n=andrew@c-24-2-95-76.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 03:44.21 | findlay | there we have it. All that is missing is the two end cases and you'll have 2^3 acronyms |
| 03:46.36 | xbmodder_lappy | wtf |
| 03:46.44 | xbmodder_lappy | 2**3? |
| 03:47.00 | maquis | pow(2,3) |
| 03:47.14 | findlay | Where's The Fish? |
| 03:47.28 | maquis | ~fish findlay |
| 03:47.29 | ibot | ACTION slaps findlay around with a large trout |
| 03:47.56 | findlay | ~find maquis |
| 03:48.26 | nick125_ | xbmodder_lappy: hey.. |
| 03:48.27 | findlay | ibot's just full of surprises |
| 03:48.41 | maquis | findlay: what surprises? |
| 03:48.53 | findlay | ~find |
| 03:49.03 | findlay | ~find gcc |
| 03:49.10 | maquis | ~make |
| 03:49.29 | findlay | maquis: type /msg ibot find <pkg> |
| 03:50.35 | findlay | maquis: doesn't look like you're a debian package |
| 03:50.54 | maquis | findlay: good to know :) |
| 03:51.19 | findlay | maquis-1.2.3-p4-r5.deb |
| 03:54.52 | *** join/#utah amcnabb (n=amcnabb@c-24-10-236-93.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 04:12.10 | *** join/#utah levi (n=levi@levi.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 04:12.45 | *** join/#utah drewbono (n=andrew@c-24-2-95-76.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 04:19.06 | maquis | hmmm... in a machine learning context, it's probably bad if my error is going *up* over time |
| 04:20.29 | levi | Yeah, I would think so. |
| 04:21.33 | maquis | ok... so, now i get to figure out what i'm doing wrong |
| 04:21.41 | maquis | i think i prefer when it just crashes |
| 04:21.56 | findlay | what if your error went left? |
| 04:22.23 | maquis | findlay: in that case, i'd be doing pretty good with this learning thing |
| 04:23.04 | mrpull-x | maquis: if there is a finite number of answers, just use your program to eliminate all of the wrong ones. then you'll be left with the right answer ;-) |
| 04:23.21 | maquis | mrpull-x: haha |
| 04:34.20 | mrpull-x | stupid game. zen is a word! |
| 04:35.56 | levi | Gah. I can't read this Hobbes crap with the TV on. |
| 04:45.28 | *** join/#utah xbmodder_lappy (i=nobody@xbmodder.us) |
| 04:45.31 | xbmodder_lappy | hey |
| 04:45.35 | xbmodder_lappy | I should make a maquis bot |
| 04:45.42 | xbmodder_lappy | One I am done with atarack |
| 04:45.45 | xbmodder_lappy | mozac |
| 04:45.52 | xbmodder_lappy | and umm something else I forget |
| 04:46.42 | xbmodder_lappy | first on the list is atarack |
| 04:46.54 | xbmodder_lappy | PING |
| 04:48.17 | levi | This show is driving me nuts. |
| 05:03.53 | *** join/#utah pmcnabb (n=peter@12-208-14-28.client.insightBB.com) |
| 05:05.33 | xbmodder_lappy | lart people... |
| 05:16.39 | *** join/#utah ScytheBlade1 (n=Death@about/pxe/ScytheBlade1) |
| 05:18.29 | xbmodder_lappy | must resist killing DNS |
| 05:18.51 | levi | Whew, I finished reading Hobbes. |
| 05:21.51 | xbmodder_lappy | you mean that cute little tiger? |
| 05:21.56 | xbmodder_lappy | or something elsE/ |
| 05:22.55 | *** join/#utah ScytheBlade1 (n=Death@about/pxe/ScytheBlade1) |
| 05:23.20 | mheath | Wow. |
| 05:23.38 | mheath | I mean, Wow. I'm just blown away by the amount of pure, concentrated ignorance that went into that statement. |
| 05:24.08 | maquis | mheath: if you're referring to xbmodder_lappy's comment, i concur... |
| 05:24.22 | mheath | maquis: yep |
| 05:27.14 | maquis | xbmodder_lappy: you ever heard of hobbes, locke and rousseau? |
| 05:27.20 | maquis | leviathan? |
| 05:27.51 | maquis | nasty, british^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hbrutish and short? |
| 05:28.01 | maquis | any of that? |
| 05:30.19 | maquis | levi: were you reading leviathan? |
| 05:30.31 | levi | maquis: Yes. |
| 05:30.51 | maquis | cool |
| 05:30.55 | levi | maquis: Selections from it, at least. |
| 05:30.57 | maquis | how'd you like it? |
| 05:31.05 | levi | I'm not a big fan of Hobbes. |
| 05:31.23 | mheath | Violence is good and necessary, it maintains order. Without it, we'd be savages. |
| 05:31.27 | mheath | :-) |
| 05:32.15 | maquis | my european history class all were big fans of machiavelli |
| 05:32.24 | maquis | we had a lot of fun in that class with that |
| 05:32.29 | levi | I'm not a big fan of Machiavelli, either. |
| 05:32.36 | maquis | one of the girls got a children's picture book of machiavelli |
| 05:32.49 | maquis | in essence, it was about how to apply machiavellian principles to the playground |
| 05:32.58 | maquis | Newsome: too bad... there's some fun stuff :) |
| 05:32.58 | levi | maquis: Great. :P |
| 05:33.01 | mheath | I enjoy history, but not the tedious date-memorizing format that most history teachers present it as. |
| 05:33.04 | maquis | levi: yup |
| 05:33.19 | maquis | mheath: my teachers were pretty good about ignoring dates for the most part, which made it nice |
| 05:33.24 | mheath | I think a lot of it is interesting, and relevant for today. Some of it is just plain cool. |
| 05:33.28 | mheath | Its nice to learn about |
| 05:33.37 | mheath | Fun, even, if presented the right way. |
| 05:33.37 | levi | maquis: Why not a children's book on how to apply Aristotelian virtue ethics to the playground? |
| 05:33.37 | Newsome | true. some things can be interesting, but ... |
| 05:33.52 | xbmodder_lappy | maquis, it was supposed to be a joke |
| 05:34.13 | mheath | xbmodder_lappy: it wasn't funny. |
| 05:34.26 | xbmodder_lappy | oh |
| 05:34.40 | mheath | See, this is why my philosophy teacher needs to be fired |
| 05:34.53 | maquis | levi: aristotelian virtue ethics would be much less entertaining than machiavellian ethics :) |
| 05:35.13 | mheath | His idea of a philosophy class is to make us watch "Jonathen Livingston Seagal" |
| 05:35.25 | mheath | Which, by the way, is a very very boring movie. A good book, though. |
| 05:36.00 | mheath | what we've done so far: |
| 05:36.11 | xbmodder_lappy | mheath, how long until he retires |
| 05:36.26 | mheath | Read some poorly copied (cut off, missing pages, etc) things on taoism... |
| 05:36.49 | mheath | Listened to his lecture on some bizzare theory of light |
| 05:37.03 | mheath | (and how a contorted view of one of Plato's dialogues agrees with him) |
| 05:37.09 | mheath | and spent 3 class periods watching this movie |
| 05:37.25 | mheath | This is a college level philosophy class. I learned far more from my college European History class. |
| 05:38.09 | xbmodder_lappy | mheath, Do you have an A in his class? |
| 05:38.39 | maquis | mheath: which dialogue of plato's was he using for that? |
| 05:39.27 | mheath | maquis: I'm really not sure. I was very confused by that conversation. |
| 05:39.38 | mheath | He spouted a lot of nonsense during that class period |
| 05:41.32 | maquis | mheath: just understand his position |
| 05:41.45 | maquis | as a modern philosopher, he's in a very difficult spot |
| 05:42.17 | mheath | maquis: a lot of it implied that he'd like to join a light-worshiping canibalistic religion, if he could |
| 05:42.21 | maquis | all the intelligent stuff has been said, and so modern philosophers are stuck with all the crappy thoughts if they want to be original |
| 05:42.37 | mheath | He was saying that you could unlock the knowledge of chicken by eating it, or a person.... |
| 05:43.01 | xbmodder_lappy | hehe |
| 05:43.08 | xbmodder_lappy | This guy sounds like a nut. |
| 05:43.22 | maquis | mheath: if he's advocating cannibalism, i'd suggest staying *far* away |
| 05:43.52 | mheath | maquis: wasn't really advocating cannibalism specifically, but still....heh. |
| 05:44.06 | maquis | :) |
| 05:44.39 | mheath | Oh, he views the 4th dimension as light |
| 05:44.42 | mheath | O.o |
| 05:44.46 | mheath | but its also time, according to him |
| 05:44.56 | mheath | becuse light is a permanent record of everything that ever happened and ever will happen |
| 05:45.37 | maquis | ooh... really? where do i have to look to see next week? |
| 05:45.41 | mheath | And, because it is the 4th dimension, we're free to move about it, if we knew how, so we could, according to him, move back and forth (and up and down?) in time. |
| 05:46.11 | maquis | hmmm... that's... interesting |
| 05:46.27 | mheath | maquis: But this is all light |
| 05:46.27 | maquis | mheath: seriously... i'm not joking about modern philosophy... |
| 05:46.34 | mheath | moving about in light, according to him |
| 05:46.37 | maquis | they're out of intelligent things to philosophize about |
| 05:46.38 | maquis | :) |
| 05:46.46 | mheath | I think hes playing off the law that energy is never created or destroyed |
| 05:47.27 | mheath | so I guess, theoretically, if you could analyze what every single bit of energy in the universe was doing at a given second, you could theoretically what happened in all of time, and what will happen... |
| 05:47.31 | mheath | But...still. |
| 05:47.47 | mheath | Newsome: I've got an aunt thats working towards a PH.D in philosophy |
| 05:47.51 | mheath | Ugh, I'd hate a life like that. |
| 05:48.11 | mheath | Puttering around a university for the rest of my life, acting all scholarly. Thats really all you can do with that kind of degree. |
| 05:49.07 | Newsome | um, PHD in philosophy? isn't that rather redundant? |
| 05:49.09 | mheath | Spending years on books that no ones heard of, beyond seeing their titles in the bibliographies of other works. |
| 05:49.33 | mheath | Newsome: indeed, but what would I call it? =P |
| 05:50.57 | mheath | A doctorate in philosophy. |
| 05:56.22 | maquis | grrrrr.... what am i doing wrong????????? |
| 05:57.00 | xbmodder_lappy | everything? |
| 05:57.06 | xbmodder_lappy | nothing? |
| 07:48.14 | maquis | Newsome: help |
| 07:48.25 | maquis | i'm in a debate with someone who has no sense of reasoning |
| 07:48.33 | xbmodder_lappy | ouchy. |
| 07:48.47 | maquis | we're debating over whether computers limit agency |
| 07:49.02 | maquis | maquis: let's say that someone uses a kitchen knife to kill someone |
| 07:49.02 | maquis | maquis: you're saying that the kitchen knife limited that person's agency |
| 07:49.02 | maquis | maquis: because, if the kitchen knife hadn't been there, they wouldn't've ended up in jail |
| 07:49.06 | maquis | byuspudstud06: right |
| 07:50.17 | maquis | how do you argue against that? |
| 07:53.07 | maquis | the whole point of the analogy was to prove that his argument was stupid |
| 07:53.16 | maquis | and he didn't see it that way at all |
| 07:57.15 | xbmodder_lappy | nick125_, you there? |
| 07:58.57 | *** join/#utah xbmodder (n=xbmodder@64.147.188.69) |
| 07:59.01 | xbmodder_lappy | :-/ |
| 07:59.03 | xbmodder_lappy | dangit |
| 07:59.08 | levi | maquis: Heh. |
| 07:59.27 | maquis | levi: am i crazy here |
| 07:59.33 | levi | maquis: No. |
| 07:59.41 | levi | maquis: Ask him to define agency. |
| 08:00.08 | levi | See whether his concept is fuzzy or just wrong. |
| 08:00.12 | *** join/#utah xbmodder (n=xbmodder@64.147.188.69) |
| 08:00.16 | xbmodder_lappy | ok |
| 08:00.51 | levi | And, dude, you're talking to someone named 'byuspudstud06' and expecting reason? |
| 08:01.03 | maquis | he started it |
| 08:01.09 | maquis | he was telling me that machine learning is impossible |
| 08:01.15 | maquis | and it escalated from there |
| 08:01.31 | maquis | (my response was "really? so, what's my computer doing?" |
| 08:01.36 | levi | What you have here is a semantic gap. |
| 08:01.37 | maquis | agency is the ability to choose good or evil right or wrong based on your actions you may begiven more or less chances for agency. If something aids in a decision that limits it has potential to be the factor that has limited your agency. |
| 08:01.38 | xbmodder_lappy | Host vm0.ds0.atarack.com not found: 2(SERVFAIL) |
| 08:01.39 | xbmodder_lappy | :-/ |
| 08:03.17 | maquis | we're back to the worst argument of the night (which has come up twice) |
| 08:03.24 | levi | OK. So, agency is being given the ability to choose. Does agency entail responsibility? |
| 08:03.30 | maquis | he's claiming that temptation limits agency |
| 08:04.21 | levi | Also, what constitutes a 'limit on agency'? |
| 08:04.47 | maquis | apparently, if you get addicted to drugs, the temptation to try drugs limited your agency |
| 08:04.52 | maquis | as did the drugs themselves |
| 08:05.26 | levi | Hmmm. |
| 08:06.04 | levi | I would say that temptation is a precondition for agency. If there are no decisions, then there is no ability to choose. |
| 08:06.33 | levi | If there is no ability to choose, there is no agency. |
| 08:06.54 | levi | For there must needs be an opposition in all things, etc. |
| 08:07.31 | maquis | yeah... we're going through that |
| 08:07.57 | maquis | he says that at the same time, temptation is necessary for agency, and at the same time prevents it |
| 08:08.00 | maquis | go figure |
| 08:08.44 | levi | In order to prevent agency, a decision must be taken away. |
| 08:08.52 | levi | Temptation does not take away a decision. |
| 08:09.19 | levi | Limitation of agency literally means taking away potential decisions. As long as a decision is still avaialble, agency is not limited. |
| 08:11.06 | levi | Making it difficult to do the 'right' thing does not constitute limitation of agency, it simply means it's harder to make the right choice. If the choice is still there, so is agency. |
| 08:12.59 | levi | And saying 'Machine Learning is impossible' is fairly devoid of meaning without having a shared meaning for machine learning first. |
| 08:13.30 | maquis | he was saying that there's no way that a computer can have *any* form of learning whatsoever |
| 08:13.38 | maquis | despite the examples i gave to the contrary |
| 08:13.46 | levi | Obviously it is possible, inasmuch as machine learning means an algorithm based on statistical analysis of past environment to make future decisions. |
| 08:14.34 | levi | Apparently, 'learning' in his mind means the conscious act of reflecting upon information. Which computers can't do, lacking consciousness. |
| 08:15.32 | levi | maquis: Who is this guy, and why do you talk to him? |
| 08:17.56 | levi | maquis: You can tell him that your very intelligent friend thinks he's either an idiot or deliberately obtuse for the sake of argument, which is pretty uncouth. ;) |
| 08:18.08 | maquis | he's a guy from my home stake |
| 08:20.02 | maquis | ok... i just told him i'm tired of arguing with him and refuting arguments that make absolutely no sense |
| 08:20.18 | levi | Sometimes that's all you can do. |
| 08:21.30 | levi | Reasoning with someone requires that both parties have at least some faculty for reasoning. |
| 08:30.25 | xbmodder_lappy | maquis, are you wearing a t-shirt? |
| 08:30.58 | xbmodder_lappy | if not, change into something like a t-shirt... or a cooling device |
| 08:31.46 | maquis | xbmodder_lappy: t-shirt and shorts |
| 08:32.10 | maquis | just opened window wider |
| 08:32.14 | xbmodder_lappy | :-/ |
| 08:32.19 | xbmodder_lappy | turn off your computers |
| 08:33.27 | maquis | xbmodder_lappy: not likely :) |
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| 10:30.10 | maquis | w00t!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 10:42.05 | maquis | ~hug gnuplot |
| 10:42.07 | ibot | ACTION hugs gnuplot |
| 11:36.22 | emcnabb | my bag is here |
| 11:36.45 | emcnabb | I was worried I'd have to wear these clothes three days in a row |
| 11:37.12 | maquis | mornin emcnabb |
| 11:37.24 | maquis | emcnabb: where are you this week? |
| 11:38.10 | maquis | and did your luggage get lost? |
| 12:36.29 | emcnabb | long story |
| 12:41.33 | maquis | emcnabb: ah... |
| 12:41.34 | maquis | ic |
| 13:09.54 | emcnabb | I'm in the Boston area |
| 13:10.06 | maquis | emcnabb: fun :) |
| 13:10.14 | maquis | it's probably morning for you :) |
| 13:11.56 | emcnabb | I'm already in the classroom |
| 13:12.05 | maquis | fun |
| 13:16.30 | maquis | emcnabb: my machine learning project is learning now :) |
| 13:18.55 | emcnabb | good work |
| 13:19.08 | maquis | thanks :) |
| 13:30.11 | maquis | emcnabb: check out this set of results: http://tuxgirl.com/weird_learning.jpg <-- any ideas on what happened between ~6000 and 7000? |
| 13:30.39 | maquis | (not urgent... i'm just puzzled as to how i got that...) |
| 13:32.18 | jsmith | maquis: Any cron jobs that run at 6am? |
| 13:32.33 | maquis | jsmith: huh? |
| 13:32.46 | maquis | jsmith: you referring to the image? |
| 13:32.49 | jsmith | Yeah |
| 13:33.13 | maquis | that image was actually around 4 this morning... it's just results from one of my runs of my machine learning project |
| 13:33.18 | maquis | it's error rates |
| 13:33.47 | jsmith | Oh, it's error rates? |
| 13:34.04 | maquis | so, for some reason, for about 1000 epochs in the middle of everything, my program was doing significantly worse than the time on either side |
| 13:34.07 | maquis | :) |
| 13:34.24 | maquis | i'm trying to explain it in my write-up |
| 13:34.39 | maquis | i find it rather entertaining, though :) |
| 13:35.10 | maquis | wow... i didn't know that the rotc guys came past here in the mornings... |
| 13:42.31 | goozbach | maybe taking drugs was a bad idea this morning |
| 13:45.08 | mheath | maquis: BYU has ROTC? |
| 13:45.18 | mheath | What branch? |
| 13:45.47 | maquis | mheath: navy, air force and army, i believe |
| 13:45.49 | mheath | UoU, WSU, and Westminster all share NROTC, I know. |
| 13:46.01 | mheath | maquis: I don't belive you have Navy.... |
| 13:46.07 | maquis | and they're all pretty large |
| 13:46.11 | maquis | mheath: i could be wrong on navy |
| 13:46.19 | maquis | i know people in both army and air force, though |
| 13:46.54 | mheath | We had some UsU NROTC midshipman doing swim training with us on Sunday. |
| 13:47.16 | mheath | erm |
| 13:47.17 | mheath | UoU |
| 13:48.20 | maquis | ah |
| 13:48.21 | maquis | cool |
| 13:48.43 | mheath | I got so tired doing that training |
| 13:49.01 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dsl-13-17.zianet.com) |
| 13:49.30 | mheath | maquis: Imagine jumping into the water wearing BDUs (camoflauge clothing), taking the pants off, butting them again, tieing the legs together, and filling them full of air. |
| 13:49.47 | mheath | All while being pulled down by how heavy they are when soaked |
| 13:50.55 | elg | supposed to be almost 80f here today |
| 13:51.25 | maquis | elg: ick |
| 13:51.48 | elg | mheath: ooh fun. then you can tread water with a 10lb brick over your head for 3 minutes |
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| 14:15.04 | mheath | elg: I can also float upside down in the water. You'd think I was dead if it wasn't for the occasional breath. |
| 14:15.13 | mheath | No movement, just completely spread out in the water |
| 14:16.02 | mheath | hans: Don't give me any of that "Ender's Game" reorienting yourself crap. We're still on earth. :) |
| 14:16.39 | hans | i don't have to, I just have to be enough of a swimmer that my definition of upside down is probably different from non-swimaholics |
| 14:16.59 | mheath | It is rather peaceful, though, after you get over the panicked feeling of being a fish out of the water (pun intended).. |
| 14:17.00 | hans | most swimming is on your stomach, so floating on your stomach is normal, i.e. not upside-down |
| 14:17.30 | hans | floating "on your back" is the inverse of normal, but then I've never heard it called upside-down either... |
| 14:17.52 | hans | now, if you were more or less vertical in the water with your head below your feet, that would definitely be upside-down |
| 14:17.58 | hans | no matter who you talk to. :) |
| 14:18.52 | hans | but I reckon you're referring to the dead man's float which is a great survival technique provided you have at least some body fat |
| 14:19.17 | mheath | hans: Its a "prone float" =P |
| 14:19.58 | hans | that sounds like a fine name for it |
| 14:21.14 | mheath | Also know how to safely jump off a very very high place, and how to safely surface if there is oil burning on the surface above. |
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| 15:00.43 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
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| 16:16.15 | maquis | -lart ECS |
| 16:16.52 | ECS | ~lart maquis |
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| 17:09.16 | harleypig | http://qdb.us/55997 |
| 17:09.19 | harleypig | sfw |
| 17:09.19 | brac | [QDB: Quote #55997] |
| 17:12.41 | *** join/#utah synic (n=synic@166-220-000-203.mobile.mymmode.com) |
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| 17:15.27 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 17:15.41 | sjansen | http://uploads.ungrounded.net/content.php?id=295165&name=295165_geeksinlove_tmst_ng.swf&title=Geeks%20In%20Love&date=1141102800&quality=b&uj=0&w=550&h=400 |
| 17:15.42 | brac | [Newgrounds presents: Geeks In Love] |
| 17:22.48 | *** join/#utah Hhhhh (n=Hhhhhhhh@158.91.201.220) |
| 17:23.43 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@hfugal.NMSU.Edu) |
| 17:29.04 | harleypig | http://cgi.ebay.com/Image-Of-Jesus-On-A-Piece-Of-Sheet-Metal-New_W0QQitemZ6257739218QQcategoryZ1447QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem |
| 17:29.15 | harleypig | Bid is up to $2025 |
| 17:31.31 | sjansen | oh my |
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| 17:32.26 | goozbach | harleypig: it looks more like Bob |
| 17:32.52 | jsmith | harleypig: That happened in the town I was at last week -- Manchester, CT. |
| 17:35.11 | harleypig | Ouch ... http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:s1373: It shall be unlawful for any person to knowingly, in or otherwise affecting interstate commerce-- create or attempt to create a human chimera; |
| 17:35.12 | brac | [Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress)] |
| 17:36.07 | harleypig | The other parts include putting a non-human embryo in a human womb and a human embryo in a non-human womb, which I don't really have a problem with. |
| 17:36.29 | harleypig | But the quoted part paints a rather wide stroke |
| 17:37.42 | sjansen | No using pig hearts to save people in desperate need of a transplant. |
| 17:38.38 | lars-ut | Mmmmm.... pig hearts. |
| 17:47.11 | jsmith | sjansen: No, go read the details -- it has to involve a human embryo or a non-human animal developing human brain tissue |
| 17:47.20 | jsmith | sjansen: At least, the way I read it... |
| 17:49.35 | harleypig | http://www.boston.com/business/technology/articles/2006/02/27/digital_method_puts_ad_inside_tv_show/ |
| 17:49.36 | brac | [Digital method puts ad inside TV show - The Boston Globe] |
| 17:49.56 | harleypig | No, it's not organ specific ... |
| 17:50.07 | *** join/#utah mindjuju (n=Administ@216.20.238.225) |
| 17:50.25 | harleypig | it doesn't matter if it's a brain or a toe, you can't grow non-human tissue in a human embryo, or human tissue in a non-human embryo |
| 17:50.48 | harleypig | further, if you *do* create something like that, you can't mix and match wombs either. |
| 17:51.57 | harleypig | Basically, no human organ cloning unless you use a human embryo |
| 17:52.08 | harleypig | But that's probably next on people's agenda. |
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| 18:03.31 | sjansen | In [3]: foo = ['bar', 'baz'] |
| 18:03.31 | sjansen | In [4]: ','.join(foo) |
| 18:03.31 | sjansen | Out[4]: 'bar,baz' |
| 18:03.39 | sjansen | That's just ugly. |
| 18:06.10 | elg | isn't that backwards? |
| 18:06.40 | sjansen | Not in Python. |
| 18:06.47 | elg | sheesh |
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| 18:08.58 | *** join/#utah brando1 (n=brandon@blurry.skewedvision.com) |
| 18:09.29 | brando1 | Anyone live in eagle mountain/the ranches or know someone who does? I'm curious about TV reception, internet service, and other things about living there. |
| 18:09.46 | goozbach | jayce does |
| 18:09.48 | Jayce^ | brando1, I live in the ranches |
| 18:10.10 | Jayce^ | Air reception sucks with just rabbit ears |
| 18:10.14 | Jayce^ | no cable |
| 18:10.21 | Jayce^ | so satellite is big |
| 18:10.46 | Jayce^ | there are a couple wireless net companies doing well out there, but IMHO the local DSL is best |
| 18:11.12 | Jayce^ | Direct communications, $49 for 1.5 (inc ISP) |
| 18:11.14 | brando1 | Jayce^: I'm looking at a lot at anthem on the green, overlooking the fairway and you can see a small part of utah lake... They want $240k for a 1500sqft rambler, plus same footage in the basement unfinished. |
| 18:11.29 | Jayce^ | which builder? |
| 18:11.42 | brando1 | desert point |
| 18:11.52 | Jayce^ | I'm in the saddleback development, by the elementry |
| 18:12.11 | Jayce^ | desert point had some nice options, but seemed that most models were kinda small compared to other companies around them |
| 18:12.26 | Jayce^ | better std features tho |
| 18:12.54 | brando1 | is $240k overpriced for that area and that footage? |
| 18:13.17 | Jayce^ | that anthem area is just in a saddle which blocks a lot of air reception of stuff, if you are on one end of the development.. |
| 18:13.32 | brando1 | .. I haven't heard of the saddleback development. where abouts from the golf course is it |
| 18:13.53 | Jayce^ | IMHO, a bit yeah.. that size in our area is a bit less (but not stucco) |
| 18:14.19 | Jayce^ | directly southeast, our development is finished, but there is one right next to us with new houses |
| 18:14.24 | RyanE | brando1: does that include the lot? |
| 18:14.35 | Jayce^ | there are a lot of builders out there, if you look around a little more, you'll find some better deals |
| 18:14.45 | brando1 | yes, lot, fencing, landscaping completed at move in |
| 18:14.49 | Jayce^ | 250 in the ranches and you have a very very large amount of options |
| 18:14.56 | brando1 | $40 a month HOF's, which sucks |
| 18:15.13 | Jayce^ | $40, oh yeah, anthem has a pool |
| 18:15.38 | Jayce^ | if you want, come out some time and I'll show you some of the other places around there, and which ones to watch out for |
| 18:15.41 | brando1 | who built your home jayce? |
| 18:15.55 | RyanE | $480 / year? Wow. Glad I'm not in an area with a Homeowners assoc. |
| 18:16.06 | Jayce^ | Mine was trophy, but it was a step down from the range you are looking at |
| 18:16.49 | brando1 | I just don't want to live anywhere near fieldstone's cookie cutter homes.. they're nice price for the size, but boxy. |
| 18:17.16 | Jayce^ | good price, but absolutely stripped and bottomline stuff to get the price down |
| 18:17.24 | Jayce^ | very basic box shapes to maximize size |
| 18:17.49 | brando1 | prestige had some houses about the same size and price, but wasatch and ballard wanted $300k starting in this area. |
| 18:18.09 | Jayce^ | prestige will work a lot with you to customize a place |
| 18:18.21 | Jayce^ | know some people who have prestige houses |
| 18:18.26 | brando1 | will they charge you for minor customization? |
| 18:18.48 | Jayce^ | depends on how minor, usually yes, but usually fair |
| 18:19.01 | brando1 | jayce anthem on the green is suppose to have cable, so they say. My main concern is being able to get internet and host a server from home |
| 18:19.25 | brando1 | I'm worried about not being able to do HD myth out there ;) |
| 18:19.26 | Jayce^ | cable?? that would be new, since comcast snubbed EM.. didn't think they were worth it |
| 18:19.37 | Jayce^ | hehe.. |
| 18:19.47 | brando1 | how's water, power, etc out there? |
| 18:19.55 | Jayce^ | there is a noticable difference in FM band transmissions between my house and anthem.. |
| 18:20.10 | brando1 | what's your zip? |
| 18:20.24 | Jayce^ | it's decent.. quality is good, prices ok, seems larger because it all comes on one bill |
| 18:20.38 | Jayce^ | 84043 (Lehi) but we are getting a new one pretty soon |
| 18:20.51 | brando1 | antenna web says nothing for hd stations ;) |
| 18:21.20 | Jayce^ | I did some charting for a while, wound up we were paying the same, and sometimes better on utilities, but seemed bigger at first |
| 18:21.32 | Jayce^ | our gas prices sucked this year since they buy on the open market |
| 18:21.48 | Jayce^ | our Phone company was city owned, but just got sold (Direct Communications now) |
| 18:24.42 | Bradipo | Jayce^: How much were your gas bills? |
| 18:24.57 | Bradipo | I'm wondering what the open market prices would be compared to say Questar... |
| 18:25.24 | Jayce^ | I'll have to look it up, but the price was about 5-8% higher than questar over the winter (per decatherm) |
| 18:25.35 | Bradipo | Did you have any bills over $200? |
| 18:25.50 | Bradipo | Gas that is... |
| 18:25.51 | Jayce^ | well, just gas, no |
| 18:26.03 | Jayce^ | was getting up there (wife really hates the cold) |
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| 18:26.41 | Bradipo | One of my gas bills was just short of $200, but I have spoken to some who were even approaching $300 |
| 18:27.27 | Jayce^ | yeah, if our house was a bit larger, we would have gone past that |
| 18:27.31 | Jayce^ | ($200 that is) |
| 18:27.55 | Jayce^ | but we're only 2k ft |
| 18:28.33 | Bradipo | That's still a pretty good price then. |
| 18:28.45 | Bradipo | At least compared to what I've seen. |
| 18:28.45 | Jayce^ | yeah, wasn't horrid.. |
| 18:29.01 | Jayce^ | a lot of people fussed about the increase, but that wasn't just EM to increase |
| 18:31.00 | Jayce^ | the golf course there is a rather nice course, tough... |
| 18:33.12 | lars-ut | We're playing Settlers of Catan: Cities & Knights tonight. Come on down! |
| 18:33.12 | lars-ut | http://mail.herlo.org/pipermail/boardgames_herlo.org/2006-February/000122.html |
| 18:33.16 | brac | [[BoardGames] Board Game Night Tonight 8:30pm - February 28] |
| 18:33.33 | lars-ut | -botsnack |
| 18:33.33 | brac | lars-ut: schweet! |
| 18:34.21 | Bradipo | lars-ut: Is there a play area for children? |
| 18:34.59 | lars-ut | Bradipo: nope - bachelor house. |
| 18:35.13 | lars-ut | graphyx brought his baby twice though |
| 18:35.22 | Bradipo | Cool. |
| 18:35.30 | lars-ut | the baby never cried - it was strange. |
| 18:35.44 | lars-ut | We'll probably postpone rolling the dice until 9:15pm to allow for some stragglers. |
| 18:36.49 | lars-ut | Bradipo: we'll likely end around midnight as well. |
| 18:36.52 | lars-ut | or after |
| 18:37.09 | lars-ut | Last time we had a really close game and folks wanted to play it out. |
| 18:38.03 | lars-ut | Over 1 terabyte of tv shows on tap at board game night btw |
| 18:38.21 | lars-ut | Gigabit ethernet |
| 18:39.13 | *** join/#utah osynic (n=synic@pdpc/supporter/student/synic) |
| 18:41.12 | RyanE | lars-ut: lost season 2 on tap? |
| 18:41.23 | lars-ut | yes |
| 18:41.46 | RyanE | got a neighbor who is just getting into it, if I could get a DVD (or few) of 'em, she'd be in heaven. |
| 18:41.57 | jsmith | lars-ut: We doing Chinese tonight, or just snacks? |
| 18:42.06 | brando1 | jayce, offline channel msg waiting |
| 18:42.06 | lars-ut | just snacks |
| 18:42.18 | jsmith | lars-ut: OK. |
| 18:42.33 | Jayce^ | brando1, never got one... hrm |
| 18:43.14 | lars-ut | RyanE: you can usually fit 12 HD eps on one 4.7GB DVD - we've got spare media if you need it |
| 18:44.28 | RyanE | lars-ut: you're just tempting me, aren't you? :) |
| 18:48.32 | lars-ut | RyanE: I know of 2 couples (friends) that watched the whole first season of Lost in 2 days |
| 18:48.58 | lars-ut | Lost & 24 are like heroin when you can watch them w/o commercials |
| 18:49.08 | lars-ut | in HD no less... |
| 18:49.56 | lars-ut | time for lunch |
| 19:06.10 | maquis | ~362*3 |
| 19:06.11 | ibot | 1086 |
| 19:06.15 | maquis | ibot: thanks |
| 19:06.15 | ibot | maquis: sure thing |
| 19:10.09 | *** join/#utah Bradipo (i=bradipo@xmission.xmission.com) |
| 19:10.44 | *** join/#utah findlay (n=justin@67.137.24.114) |
| 19:10.46 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp30.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 19:14.38 | maquis | sjansen: yeah... i know... |
| 19:14.54 | maquis | but it's nice to do just one quick calculation someplace where it won't get in the middle of all my work |
| 19:15.05 | maquis | and ibot's just so willing to help |
| 19:15.58 | findlay | ~solve life, the Universe, and everything |
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| 19:22.50 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
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| 19:36.04 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 19:41.14 | Hhhhh | ~yomomma |
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| 19:44.38 | *** join/#utah osynic (n=synic@pdpc/supporter/student/synic) |
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| 20:09.18 | goozbach | lars-ut-away: this cute girl and I watched the entire serires of Firefly in one sitting about a month ago |
| 20:09.32 | goozbach | took ~17 hours |
| 20:10.17 | lars-ut-away | goozbach: marry her. |
| 20:10.49 | harleypig | no kidding |
| 20:10.58 | nick125_ | wewt....i got a share ratio of 124% on some gentoo stuff |
| 20:11.00 | harleypig | see if she'll sit through the LOTR |
| 20:11.03 | nick125_ | x86 livecd |
| 20:11.26 | lars-ut-away | goozbach: if she likes the director's cut of Dune it's a done deal. |
| 20:11.39 | goozbach | http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php |
| 20:11.41 | brac | [Ctrl+Alt+Del - Tragically l337] |
| 20:11.55 | RyanE | only problem is that if she likes ALL those things, she's probably a transvestite nerd. |
| 20:12.13 | goozbach | she's not trust me |
| 20:12.24 | RyanE | she's not a nerd? |
| 20:12.32 | RyanE | hehe :) |
| 20:12.34 | goozbach | a transvestite |
| 20:12.43 | goozbach | she's definatly a nerd |
| 20:13.05 | lars-ut-away | girl geek? You're a lucky man. |
| 20:13.28 | goozbach | not really, cause shw won't marry me |
| 20:13.37 | lars-ut-away | D'oh |
| 20:14.02 | RyanE | so, a *smart* girl geek, what a find! |
| 20:14.07 | harleypig | :D |
| 20:14.10 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch@66.239.25.2.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 20:14.31 | goozbach | and she's HOT! |
| 20:15.00 | harleypig | Why do I hear Ruby Rod in my head going 'hot Hot HOT!' |
| 20:15.24 | goozbach | http://www.friocorte.com/talam/photo?photo_id=6255 |
| 20:16.18 | goozbach | lars-ut-away: she watched the entire dune miniseries with me too |
| 20:16.31 | harleypig | http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=29960 |
| 20:17.42 | harleypig | ~lart goozbach for letting the geek girl get away |
| 20:18.01 | goozbach | here's proof of her geekiness: http://www.friocorte.com/talam/photo?photo_id=4158 |
| 20:18.21 | goozbach | yes that IS an obscure StarWars character costume |
| 20:22.12 | findlay | goozbach: why can't you just call her up? |
| 20:24.24 | RyanE | so, a *smart* girl geek, what a find! |
| 20:24.37 | RyanE | dang irssi! |
| 20:25.41 | findlay | RyanE: no, irssi meant to make you lay it all the more on goozbach |
| 20:25.48 | findlay | (: |
| 20:27.12 | RyanE | yes, that's why I despise irssi... she's much crueller than even I. |
| 20:27.56 | Jayce^ | goozbach, you still whining about girls? |
| 20:30.07 | *** join/#utah synic (n=synic@pdpc/supporter/student/synic) |
| 20:39.40 | lars-ut | I noticed the Tyan barebones server on the plug mailing list the other day... put together a file server based on it - thoughts? |
| 20:39.41 | lars-ut | https://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/Wishlist/PublicWishDetail.asp?WishListNumber=1925792&WishListTitle=lars%2Dut+file+server |
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| 20:40.24 | lars-ut | I was going to propose this puppy be used for running lame to transcode recorded phone calls & store them |
| 20:40.58 | lars-ut | I'll need a compact heatsink/fan as well. |
| 20:40.59 | lars-ut | http://censuspc.com/product.php?productid=2742&cat=218&page=1 |
| 20:41.01 | brac | [Dynatron A75 AMD K8 1U Blower Copper Heatsink (180 Degree) :: Socket 939 Coolers :: Cooling Devices :: CensusPC] |
| 20:41.51 | jsmith | lars-ut: Looks like it takes dual-channel ram, in which case you'd be better off buying two 512mb sticks |
| 20:42.05 | lars-ut | Didn't I put that? |
| 20:42.12 | lars-ut | yep. |
| 20:42.25 | jsmith | Yep. I'm stupid. |
| 20:42.33 | lars-ut | bingo. |
| 20:44.35 | jsmith | lars-ut: Looks like it comes with a heat sink... the fans blow across the heatsink. |
| 20:45.02 | lars-ut | thanks - I would have wasted money |
| 20:45.12 | lars-ut | Yep. I'm stupid. |
| 20:46.50 | lars-ut | jsmith: anything else? |
| 20:47.45 | jsmith | No, looks like a killer machine. |
| 20:47.58 | lars-ut | <Mr. Burns>Excellent.... |
| 20:47.58 | jsmith | Let me know when the parts come in :-) |
| 20:48.08 | jsmith | Stop implying that my name is Smithers! |
| 20:53.20 | lars-ut | jsmith: http://www.thesimpsonsquotes.com/characters/wayland-smithers-quotes.html |
| 20:53.22 | sjansen | FC5 isn't shipping Xen as an option in the installer because "it isn't ready". |
| 20:54.05 | *** join/#utah drewbono (n=andrew@128.187.185.172) |
| 20:54.45 | Jayce^ | mmm, new Mac Mini's |
| 20:56.13 | sjansen | https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=181618 <-- Be sure to read mharris' comments |
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| 21:00.38 | sjansen | Jayce^: You're kinda late. Happened a long time ago. Somewhere between FC2 and FC3. |
| 21:02.31 | Jayce^ | sjansen, no, you're kind of late :) |
| 21:03.55 | *** join/#utah drewbono (n=andrew@128.187.128.60) |
| 21:04.21 | sjansen | Jayce^: I don't see how. Ubuntu didn't exist yet. Are you suggesting that Gentoo should have set me straight? |
| 21:04.31 | RyanE | it didn't say they weren't shipping, it, but just that it wouldn't be a user-visible option... Does that mean not shipping at all in FC5? |
| 21:04.41 | *** join/#utah spr (n=spr@c-24-10-236-93.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 21:05.03 | sjansen | RyanE: It'll probably ship, but looks like it won't be in the installer. |
| 21:05.12 | sjansen | At least that's how I read it. |
| 21:07.25 | Jayce^ | sjansen, oh heck no, but dissatisfaction should have set it, and you should have moved out more |
| 21:08.08 | sjansen | Why do you think I tried things like Debian, Gentoo, SuSE (back when it was spelled that way), etc? |
| 21:09.26 | Jayce^ | but being you, we expected to see a series of extremely long rants on the horrors of it all, and the needs of the community, bla blah blah... |
| 21:09.26 | Jayce^ | :) |
| 21:09.27 | sjansen | You're forgetting that I spent more than a year on Gentoo until I regained my sanity. It was about the same time you were worship Sorcer{er,y}. |
| 21:12.26 | sjansen | ~lart prepositions |
| 21:13.12 | findlay | harleypig: how do you overcome/supplement the deficiencies of etags for perl? |
| 21:13.38 | sjansen | Jayce^: You're just jealous because you miss your soul. |
| 21:14.03 | Bradipo | I found a soul, maybe it was yours... |
| 21:14.17 | Jayce^ | Bradipo, no, that one was probably your bosses :) |
| 21:15.12 | sjansen | Jayce^: Apple is holding it in escrow. |
| 21:15.47 | Jayce^ | sjansen, nah, I run too much OS stuff on this thing |
| 21:17.23 | findlay | ~steal Jayce^'s soul |
| 21:17.24 | ibot | ACTION grabs Jayce^'s soul and gives it to findlay |
| 21:23.37 | harleypig | findlay: I don't remember ... I haven't used it in more than a year. |
| 21:25.50 | findlay | harleypig: you haven't needed etags? |
| 21:28.41 | harleypig | findlay: Not really, although I'm beginning to think I'll need it for this job. |
| 21:30.53 | findlay | harleypig: I'm trying to come to terms with data types/structures littered about 50K of code |
| 21:31.37 | harleypig | err ... perl doesn't really have structures ... are you talking about hashes? |
| 21:31.46 | findlay | so far I've been using a 'find . -type f | xargs grep -n <identifier>' motif |
| 21:31.57 | findlay | harleypig: yeah |
| 21:32.33 | findlay | hashes of arrays, and whatever |
| 21:36.22 | findlay | hash browns and succotash |
| 21:40.40 | harleypig | heh ... carrying on two conversations and a project ... hang on, I'll see what I can find |
| 22:00.10 | mheath | Hmm, call me crazy, but I actually like some of the Windows Vista screenshots |
| 22:00.25 | mheath | Their new graphics system is pretty nice looking. |
| 22:01.49 | harleypig | sorry findlay, got busy |
| 22:01.53 | mheath | Kinda sad |
| 22:02.04 | mheath | You see components of free software that blows even this together |
| 22:02.10 | mheath | s/together/away/g |
| 22:02.37 | mheath | But no ones really tied together the loose ends to produce an amazingly visually attractive desktop system |
| 22:02.57 | harleypig | The problem you're going to have with ptags is that variables are hard to define without actually running the program. |
| 22:03.05 | mheath | Someone will come out with a revolutionary new library that does some reallly neat graphical thing, but it isn't utilized by any of the main projects |
| 22:03.19 | emcnabb | I was actually disappointed with Vista's graphics when I used it |
| 22:03.23 | emcnabb | I expected more |
| 22:04.20 | mheath | I still think it blows Gnome and KDE away |
| 22:04.27 | mheath | IMHO |
| 22:04.54 | mheath | Far behind the graphical system of OS X, though. |
| 22:05.08 | emcnabb | I agree on both points |
| 22:05.36 | mheath | I think what impressed me the most, though, is how nicely the information is organized |
| 22:05.43 | mheath | the screenshots I saw were of their revamped control panel |
| 22:07.58 | mheath | I found the way they presented that much information to be attractive |
| 22:08.40 | sjansen | I find it funny that MS is going to label one version Windows Ultimate. |
| 22:09.08 | sjansen | For some reason it seems unprofessional for anyone other than game makers to use the word "ultimate". |
| 22:09.12 | emcnabb | nothing will ever be able to top Windows Ultimate |
| 22:09.22 | emcnabb | I mean, it is the Ultimate version of windows |
| 22:09.47 | mheath | Heh. |
| 22:09.58 | mheath | I've always found Linux naming schemes to be unprofessional, though, too. |
| 22:10.03 | sjansen | Although I suppose you could argue that Vista is almost the same thing as a game... |
| 22:10.35 | emcnabb | my favorite part of Vista was the new version of Solitair and Minesweeper |
| 22:10.39 | emcnabb | they were pretty impressive |
| 22:10.50 | emcnabb | serious eye-candy for the serious gamer |
| 22:11.06 | mheath | Heh, they've been using literally the same version sinces 95, haven't they? |
| 22:12.14 | emcnabb | time to head back to the hotel |
| 22:12.51 | findlay | why does nautilus show the files on the samba share are belong to me? |
| 22:13.01 | findlay | when they don't? |
| 22:14.25 | findlay | how long do you think it will take KDE/GNOME to play catch up? |
| 22:15.48 | mheath | A long time |
| 22:15.53 | mheath | they keep just building on their old work |
| 22:16.04 | mheath | the fundamental concepts in their design have been unchanged since they were created |
| 22:16.19 | mheath | and even then, their toolkits and GUI concepts are based on ideas that have been around for decades |
| 22:16.41 | findlay | who windows or kde/gnome? |
| 22:17.00 | mheath | kde/gnome, and windows. |
| 22:20.56 | findlay | ooh, thunder |
| 22:21.09 | findlay | ~rain maquis |
| 22:23.07 | Tene | ~lightning maquis |
| 22:23.15 | findlay | ~hail Tene |
| 22:23.17 | ibot | ACTION bows down to Tene and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!" |
| 22:23.22 | findlay | heh |
| 22:23.26 | Tene | hehe |
| 22:58.25 | harleypig | findlay: If you're willing to take the time you might look into PPI to parse out variables |
| 23:04.25 | *** join/#utah mindjuju (n=Administ@216.20.238.225) |
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| 23:17.08 | Tene | ~lart maquis |
| 23:17.21 | Tene | ~lert |
| 23:17.51 | Tene | ibot: lert is <reply> Be alert! Your country needs lerts! |
| 23:17.52 | ibot | Tene: okay |
| 23:17.58 | Tene | ~lert |
| 23:17.59 | ibot | Be alert! Your country needs lerts! |
| 23:20.45 | findlay | ibot: what's all that about? |
| 23:20.56 | SpecialZ | ~lert findlay |
| 23:21.44 | SpecialZ | ibot: lert $junk is <reply> Be alert! Your country needs lerts! |
| 23:21.45 | ibot | SpecialZ: okay |
| 23:21.50 | SpecialZ | ~lert findlay |
| 23:21.52 | ibot | Be alert! Your country needs lerts! |
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| 23:24.31 | findlay | Rayleigh scattering |
| 23:24.47 | *** join/#utah xbmodder_lappy (i=nobody@xbmodder.us) |
| 23:24.48 | xbmodder_lappy | hhey |
| 23:28.46 | goozbach | [dcarter@zonoma resume]$ \(- |
| 23:28.46 | goozbach | bash: (-: command not found |
| 23:28.46 | goozbach | [dcarter@zonoma resume]$ |
| 23:28.55 | goozbach | beautiful |
| 23:29.28 | *** join/#utah drewbono (n=andrew@128.187.136.144) |
| 23:29.55 | xbmodder_lappy | haha |
| 23:30.24 | ScytheBlade1 | Hahahahaha, I lose |
| 23:30.35 | ScytheBlade1 | Azureus just gave me an error for the first time, one that I hadn't seen |
| 23:30.42 | ScytheBlade1 | "File descriptor limit reacher" |
| 23:30.44 | ScytheBlade1 | *readed |
| 23:30.47 | ScytheBlade1 | **reached :P |
| 23:32.02 | xbmodder_lappy | Azureus! |
| 23:32.06 | findlay | goozbach: got to add that one to the list (-: |
| 23:32.38 | findlay | of course, you wouldn't have recognized it if I hadn't conditioned you to backwards emotions (: |
| 23:33.04 | ScytheBlade1 | What about it? |
| 23:34.06 | goozbach | nah, I'll just blame canada |
| 23:35.34 | goozbach | http://www.csd.uwo.ca/staff/magi/personal/humour/Computer_Audience/Funny%20UNIX%20Shell%20Commands.html |
| 23:38.19 | Bradipo | Wow, amazing... the pluglist almost went 24 hours without a single email... |
| 23:40.55 | *** join/#utah amcnabb (n=amcnabb@c-24-10-236-93.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 23:40.57 | sjansen | Proof positive that Linux is doomed. |
| 23:41.06 | sjansen | From a SCO employee, no less. |
| 23:41.26 | Bradipo | I wasn't making a statement at all about linux. |
| 23:41.40 | Bradipo | I was making a statement about the lack of email coming from pluglist. |
| 23:41.56 | sjansen | Yes, but we all know that as goes Plug so goes Linux. |
| 23:42.01 | sjansen | The sky is falling! |
| 23:42.33 | sjansen | Quick, switch to BSD! |
| 23:42.44 | Bradipo | Oh, haven't you heard? |
| 23:42.50 | goozbach | sjansen: no, OS/2 ... |
| 23:42.54 | Bradipo | BSD is also dead. |
| 23:43.01 | goozbach | BSD is dead as well |
| 23:43.02 | sjansen | Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111111111 |
| 23:43.29 | Bradipo | goozbach: Everyone has been saying that BSD is on its way out, so it should be dead by now. |
| 23:44.18 | goozbach | and OS/2 isn't ? |
| 23:47.37 | harleypig | OS/2 and CP/M are both alive and well. |
| 23:47.43 | harleypig | or is that C/PM? |
| 23:49.45 | Hhhhh | CP/M |
| 23:50.14 | sjansen | Multics is also alive and kicking. |
| 23:51.08 | *** join/#utah drewbono (n=andrew@128.187.138.5) |
| 23:51.37 | goozbach | mcfrontalot rocks |
| 23:51.45 | goozbach | ~seen dilvie |
| 23:51.49 | ibot | dilvie <n=dilvie@c-67-161-253-245.hsd1.ut.comcast.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #utah, 2d 14h 47m 48s ago, saying: 'ignore the smile'. |
