| 00:10.05 | bonez39 | I am curious if anyone else here runs win4lin.....? I am having trouble with vnet, getting it working correctly |
| 00:23.35 | bonez39 | boo |
| 00:23.43 | bonez39 | just a quiet day here, eh? |
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| 01:18.01 | findlay | everyone will be wanting my nick, now that I'm famous |
| 01:19.50 | atoponce | famous? |
| 01:20.23 | findlay | yup |
| 01:20.47 | atoponce | why? |
| 01:21.07 | findlay | http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20060224192617648 |
| 01:21.14 | findlay | (: |
| 01:22.29 | atoponce | i read that. cool. |
| 01:22.52 | atoponce | you could sell your nick. :) |
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| 03:17.04 | _dilvie | hello! |
| 03:17.26 | _dilvie | I missed the geek dinner ); |
| 03:17.32 | _dilvie | How did it go? |
| 03:23.55 | xbmodder_lappy | lol |
| 03:28.12 | _dilvie | lol? |
| 03:28.27 | markl | does anyone here have Dish Network satellite? |
| 03:29.22 | _dilvie | not I |
| 03:34.17 | xbmodder_lappy | I do... |
| 03:35.40 | xbmodder_lappy | Oh yeah yeah yeah! |
| 03:52.35 | ScytheBlade1 | sed 's/VHOSTNAME/"$1"/' ~/bin/vhost-template |
| 03:52.39 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm missing something :P |
| 03:52.50 | ScytheBlade1 | I've tried {$1}, ${1}, $1, and now "$1" |
| 03:53.08 | ScytheBlade1 | But every time, it replaces VHOSTNAME with \$\1, not the value of $1 |
| 03:53.09 | QBFreak | \1 |
| 03:53.27 | ScytheBlade1 | This is a bash script, heh |
| 03:53.34 | QBFreak | iirc sed uses \1 |
| 03:53.51 | QBFreak | I can look and see what I used if it doesn't work |
| 03:53.53 | ScytheBlade1 | sed: -e expression #1, char 15: invalid reference \1 on `s' command's RHS |
| 03:54.03 | QBFreak | drop the "" on the second one |
| 03:54.15 | ScytheBlade1 | There aren't any now |
| 03:54.20 | ScytheBlade1 | That error is: |
| 03:54.26 | ScytheBlade1 | sed 's/VHOSTNAME/\1/' ~/bin/vhost-template |
| 03:55.47 | ScytheBlade1 | haha, found my problem |
| 03:55.52 | QBFreak | lesse, I've used this successfully: sed s#'Total:[ \t]*\([0-9\.]*\).*'#'\1'#g |
| 03:55.57 | ScytheBlade1 | sed "s/VHOSTNAME/$1/" ~/bin/vhost-template |
| 03:56.01 | ScytheBlade1 | I was using ' instead of " |
| 03:56.06 | ScytheBlade1 | and ' = no variable expansion |
| 03:56.21 | QBFreak | in BASH at least, didn't know SED interpreted it the same way |
| 03:56.25 | QBFreak | good to know :) |
| 03:56.31 | ScytheBlade1 | Very good to know, heh |
| 03:56.38 | ScytheBlade1 | That's a nasty way to throw someone for a loop |
| 03:56.51 | QBFreak | I usually use "" if anything because I often have variables in there :) |
| 03:57.08 | ScytheBlade1 | I use ' for sed, force of habit there |
| 03:57.50 | ScytheBlade1 | What's the fun util that'll tokenize a string? |
| 03:58.13 | QBFreak | dunno, but when you find out let me know :) |
| 03:59.47 | QBFreak | in windows its incredibly easy, for /f "tokens=1,2 delims=," %A in ("string") do ( echo token 1: %A & echo token 2: %B) |
| 04:00.17 | QBFreak | no quotes at all if its a file, single quotes if its a command |
| 04:00.26 | ScytheBlade1 | I have a friend who's rather... addicted to windows batch scripting |
| 04:00.42 | ScytheBlade1 | He made a little batch file to recursively copy files into themselves on 2k/XP with ADS |
| 04:00.47 | QBFreak | I've done a lot of it, its pretty nifty once you learn when the parser will bite you :) |
| 04:00.59 | ScytheBlade1 | (and NTFS, heh) |
| 04:01.58 | ScytheBlade1 | "Why is it that when I delete this 20kb text file, it frees up 10GB.... ?" |
| 04:02.22 | QBFreak | I did more productive things with my batch files :) |
| 04:02.49 | ScytheBlade1 | He was bored in computer tech |
| 04:02.53 | QBFreak | heh |
| 04:03.11 | ScytheBlade1 | Alternate Data Streams are fun things |
| 04:03.48 | QBFreak | I automated a tape library, all you had to do was drop a file into a folder with the path of the data for the tape (file name indicating tape label) and it would find and load the tape, write it, return it and let you know it was done |
| 04:03.57 | ScytheBlade1 | nice |
| 04:04.15 | QBFreak | yeah, there was no way I was doing 25+ tapes a day by hand :) |
| 04:04.34 | QBFreak | wrote another to split the data up into tape-sized pieces, I was tired of doing that too |
| 04:05.04 | ScytheBlade1 | That's one thing I like about windows copy |
| 04:05.14 | ScytheBlade1 | copy file1+file2+file3 bigfile |
| 04:05.24 | QBFreak | yeah, that is handy |
| 04:06.03 | QBFreak | these were actually a lot of small files, stored by folder of the input media label |
| 04:06.24 | QBFreak | so it would go and figure out how many would fit on a tape, do the copy, and make me a CSV report of what all went where |
| 04:06.39 | ScytheBlade1 | very nice |
| 04:06.58 | QBFreak | I would have never gotten that stuff done on time without it |
| 04:07.35 | ScytheBlade1 | I know the feeling |
| 04:07.42 | ScytheBlade1 | Manual labor like that that *can* be automated |
| 04:07.43 | ScytheBlade1 | Should |
| 04:07.51 | QBFreak | definitly |
| 04:08.02 | QBFreak | I dislike repetitive tasks, thats what a computer is for :) |
| 04:08.19 | ScytheBlade1 | indeed |
| 04:09.19 | ScytheBlade1 | blah, I cannot find it |
| 04:11.27 | QBFreak | http://daemons.net/~matty/blog/?p=196 ? |
| 04:11.36 | QBFreak | last example |
| 04:12.10 | ScytheBlade1 | That's really, really close to the example I have in mind |
| 04:12.19 | ScytheBlade1 | Now to find a way to pipe it all around.. |
| 04:12.49 | QBFreak | I would imagine you could echo foo bar | awk 'stuff' |
| 04:12.56 | ScytheBlade1 | yeah |
| 04:13.11 | ScytheBlade1 | It's just that it's going through sed and a few other things first ;) |
| 04:13.25 | QBFreak | yeah |
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| 04:44.36 | maquis | findlay: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20060226 <-- sounds a bit like what you heard on friday... :) |
| 04:45.24 | Newsome | pretty accurate |
| 04:50.24 | maquis | :) |
| 04:50.29 | maquis | http://www.2loop.com/3drooms.html <-- cool stuff! |
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| 04:58.06 | Newsome | looks cool, but I seriously doubt Elizabeth would go for any paintjob like that in our new house |
| 05:00.00 | maquis | Newsome: true :) |
| 05:03.28 | QBFreak | crazy |
| 05:05.36 | QBFreak | I found this GE Homeminder thing at goodwill once, from 1984, hooks up to the TV and controls X10 compatible modules |
| 05:05.48 | QBFreak | I hooked it up and now have a remote for my lamps :) |
| 05:07.58 | Newsome | I just wish I was there to see it when it crashes... |
| 05:08.58 | Newsome | 'sokay, though. I get to do it with this laptop in another day or so too! |
| 05:15.32 | nick125 | /dev/md1..aint that raid? |
| 05:17.33 | Newsome | it _was_ |
| 05:18.00 | Newsome | md0 was /boot |
| 05:18.05 | Newsome | md1 was / |
| 05:18.08 | nick125 | lol |
| 05:18.23 | nick125 | it still is a RAID |
| 05:18.31 | nick125 | you just made it /dev/zero |
| 05:19.01 | Newsome | right, redundant copies of 0 |
| 05:20.08 | levi | Newsome: No longer working at BYU? |
| 05:20.40 | nick125 | i want a RAID :p |
| 05:21.28 | Newsome | nope. I left and took a job in Chicago |
| 05:22.17 | Newsome | I pity the poor fool who ends up with that job |
| 05:22.24 | levi | Heh. |
| 05:22.51 | levi | Time for me to get back to working on homework. |
| 05:42.31 | findlay | Newsome: find / -type f -print0 | xargs -0 shred -fuxz |
| 05:42.55 | QBFreak | shred is fun |
| 05:58.20 | Newsome | yes, shred would have done something too, but it would definitely have died while trying to exec xargs and shred before it completed the entire drive |
| 05:59.53 | Newsome | hehe. The only thing left is bash builtins, /proc, and /sys |
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| 13:43.02 | elg | heh, thi sis funny |
| 13:43.07 | elg | http://jobs.rubynow.com/jobs/show/207 |
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| 14:17.53 | elg | ~rlart |
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| 14:27.30 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 14:30.25 | elg | -lart Jayce^ |
| 14:33.11 | Jayce^ | ~lart elg |
| 14:33.21 | Jayce^ | heh, and he was so nice to me |
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| 16:11.12 | vontrapp | no bradipo? |
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| 17:18.15 | goozbach | just three weeks |
| 17:18.16 | goozbach | ? |
| 17:18.36 | maquis | ?? |
| 17:26.20 | levi | Jayce^: Hey, there are some new comments on the "Nancy Typing" post that elucidate the versions involved. |
| 17:27.08 | goozbach | 07:30 * brac forces Jayce^ to use perl for 3 weeks |
| 17:27.18 | lars-ut | ~emulate gir |
| 17:27.20 | ibot | where's my moose? |
| 17:27.23 | goozbach | my comment is re ^ that |
| 17:27.24 | lars-ut | -urls 10 |
| 17:27.24 | brac | [2006/02/25 13:24:09] <maquis> http://www.redherring.com/Article.aspx?a=15850&hed=H%26R%20Block%20Goofs%20on%20Its%20Taxes |
| 17:27.24 | brac | [2006/02/25 02:27:41] <nick125> http://images.nick125.com/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=211 |
| 17:27.24 | brac | [2006/02/24 18:51:45] <emcnabb> http://www.insecure.org/nmap/survey.html |
| 17:27.24 | brac | [2006/02/24 18:24:56] <maquis> http://tuxgirl.com/project2.tgz |
| 17:27.26 | brac | [2006/02/24 16:57:20] <harleypig> http://web.archive.org/web/20021207085002/www.nice-tits.org/pics.html |
| 17:27.26 | brac | [2006/02/24 16:02:31] <levi> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burroughs_B5000 |
| 17:27.28 | brac | [2006/02/24 13:02:20] <nick125> http://images.nick125.com/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=205 |
| 17:27.30 | brac | [2006/02/24 13:00:57] <maquis> http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060224-6259.html |
| 17:27.32 | brac | [2006/02/24 10:51:56] <levi> http://calculist.blogspot.com/2006/02/nancy-typing.html |
| 17:27.34 | brac | [2006/02/24 10:50:28] <levi> http://www.windley.com/ |
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| 17:49.58 | sjansen | *sigh* Word to the wise: avoid FC5 for the first month after release. |
| 17:50.34 | sjansen | Or, install FC5t3 on a separate partition *right now*, test it and report all the problems you find. |
| 17:51.53 | levi | Poor sjansen, condemned to live in a world of bleeding-edge broken Linux. |
| 17:54.29 | maquis | -lart goozbach |
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| 17:57.31 | maquis | hmmm... |
| 17:57.40 | maquis | so, if there's something that's been declassified, |
| 17:57.52 | maquis | and then someone publishes it publicly and sells copies... |
| 17:58.03 | maquis | and then it gets reclassified, how does that work? |
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| 18:03.09 | maquis | w00t! i might've actually helped someone!! |
| 18:03.37 | SpecialZ | ~onjoin SpecialZ ~onjoin SpecialZ -lart maquis |
| 18:03.38 | ibot | ok, SpecialZ |
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| 18:04.24 | SpecialZ | ~onjoin SpecialZ -lart maquis |
| 18:04.24 | ibot | SpecialZ: ok |
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| 18:04.42 | maquis | -lart SpecialZ |
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| 18:05.18 | graphyx | hello |
| 18:05.55 | jsmith | graphyx: 'bout time you showed up |
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| 18:10.34 | mrpull- | did anybody get a straight story what happened with XO this morning? |
| 18:11.32 | maquis | ~XO? |
| 18:11.36 | maquis | ~XO |
| 18:11.37 | ibot | xo is, like, they have decent lines in north america but for the same price you can get a uunet or sprintlink line |
| 18:12.39 | jsmith | mrpull-: They had problems this morning? |
| 18:15.46 | maquis | btw, on my question RE declassification: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/2006/02/022706.html#1 |
| 18:15.48 | brac | [Secrecy News 02/27/06] |
| 18:16.07 | mrpull- | jsmith: yep. BGP was frobbed for at least 20 minutes. |
| 18:21.03 | jsmith | mrpull-: Yuck! |
| 18:22.42 | mrpull- | jsmith: I would have guessed you'd be the one to see that. |
| 18:23.02 | jsmith | mrpull-: I don't have any XO circuits anymore, now that I'm doing VoIP stuff full time. |
| 18:23.13 | mrpull- | ahhh... you made that jump? |
| 18:23.26 | jsmith | Yes :-) |
| 18:23.33 | mrpull- | congrats. |
| 18:23.36 | jsmith | Thanks... |
| 18:23.55 | jsmith | I have to say, it's been nice |
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| 18:34.22 | mrpull- | does anybody know offhand where OSTG (sf.net, slashdot, etc) hosts? |
| 18:34.49 | jsmith | mrpull-: Nope... |
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| 18:35.23 | mheath | Hmm, I've been commissioned to design a website. |
| 18:36.29 | jsmith | mrpull-: http://slashdot.org/faq/tech.shtml |
| 18:37.16 | mrpull- | jsmith: sweeet. i know I've read that page in the past, but I had forgotten it. I wonder how up to date it is. |
| 18:37.42 | mrpull- | duh -- Last Modified: 6/13/00 |
| 18:38.12 | jsmith | mrpull-: Doh! |
| 18:48.14 | mrpull- | visual traceroute has them in NC now. |
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| 18:49.40 | nick125-treo | mm fun |
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| 19:11.19 | sjansen | Well, I finally found something to like about FC5: my builtin broadcom wireless works. (With a little prodding.) |
| 19:13.39 | findlay | is there something to dislike about FC5? |
| 19:14.20 | sjansen | The fact that it is almost certiainly going to ship half baked. |
| 19:14.58 | findlay | that's not much different from previous FCs |
| 19:15.05 | mrpull- | sjansen: isn't that the goal of fedora? a halfbaked moving target that never stabilizes? |
| 19:15.14 | sjansen | Several important programs just crash. Hardware that works fine with FC4 doesn't with FC5. |
| 19:15.35 | jsmith | mrpull-: What's wrong with a moving target? :-) |
| 19:15.51 | findlay | the force is strong with this one |
| 19:15.54 | mheath | Indeed. Better than a stationary one. |
| 19:16.03 | mrpull- | nothing other than it is harder to shoot at |
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| 19:18.48 | mheath | This makes me nervous, this webdesign project |
| 19:19.10 | mheath | Makes me nervous the people I'm doing it for / that I'm going to be in contact with |
| 19:19.57 | mheath | Lots and lots of really high ranked retired military personnel |
| 19:20.09 | mrpull- | sjansen: has xen been improved in FC5? have you tinkered with it? |
| 19:21.23 | sjansen | elg: Haven't had chance. goozbach is apparently disappointed with some things, but I don't remember what. |
| 19:23.11 | elg | hmm? |
| 19:27.24 | mrpull- | i'm lazy. I want to see a nice free GUI to manage VM's. Otherwise VMWare is a good alternative for me :) |
| 19:32.55 | maquis | Hhhhhh: congrats |
| 19:33.03 | Hhhhhh | thx |
| 19:37.08 | findlay | ~Hhhhhh++ |
| 19:39.13 | mrpull- | Wahoo! congrats Hhhhh. Will you be the first PHhhhhhD in history? |
| 19:39.38 | Hhhhhh | lol I gues |
| 19:39.41 | Hhhhhh | guess* |
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| 19:57.58 | maquis | has anyone here ever seen the error: "No space left on device. Try deleting some semaphores with ipcs and ipcrm" |
| 19:58.21 | maquis | google appears to return 2 pages in czech when i stick the whole error in |
| 19:58.47 | Bradipo | Sounds like you are out of some kind of IPCS resource. |
| 19:58.52 | maquis | i'm not sure what, though |
| 19:59.07 | maquis | i ran ipcs... http://pastebin.com/575389 <-- the results |
| 19:59.11 | Bradipo | Assuming that error message is pointing you in the right direction... |
| 19:59.30 | Bradipo | Did you check df and df -i just to make sure you don't have disk problems? |
| 20:00.06 | maquis | df looks fine, same with df -i |
| 20:00.24 | levi | Heh, a South Park episode on the Xenu story. |
| 20:00.41 | mheath | hmm |
| 20:00.55 | mheath | anyone if it matters in fstab, starting the proc line with "proc" versus "none"? |
| 20:01.09 | Bradipo | You seem to have a lot of shared memory in use, but only a few semaphores. |
| 20:01.34 | mheath | s/anyone/anyone know/g |
| 20:02.30 | maquis | Bradipo: ok... is that a good or a bad thing? |
| 20:02.32 | Bradipo | maquis: Does ipcs -a show any more detail? |
| 20:02.48 | maquis | for a bit of context, i've had this problem twice, both times while trying to install monodevelop |
| 20:03.30 | Bradipo | Hard to say, but I imagine that the kernel only sets aside so much memory to be used by shared memory segments. |
| 20:03.36 | Bradipo | And you may be hitting that limit. |
| 20:03.46 | maquis | Bradipo: i just added ipcs -a at the bottom of that same post... |
| 20:03.54 | maquis | it appears to have some more information |
| 20:04.20 | Bradipo | The pastebin doesn't seem to reflect the new information. |
| 20:04.42 | maquis | http://pastebin.com/575406 |
| 20:04.47 | maquis | looks like it gave it a new number :) |
| 20:05.09 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp30.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 20:06.03 | Bradipo | Does ``sysctl -a | grep shminfo'' give you any results? |
| 20:06.25 | maquis | nope |
| 20:06.46 | Bradipo | Hmm, bummer, that means you'll have to poke around /proc to find the information. :-) |
| 20:07.08 | Bradipo | What about ``sysctl -a | grep shm'' |
| 20:07.08 | maquis | what information? |
| 20:07.13 | Bradipo | Information about the limits for shared memory segments. |
| 20:07.23 | Bradipo | Or semaphores... |
| 20:07.25 | maquis | Bradipo: yeah.. .that one gives some |
| 20:07.42 | elg | whatcha lookin for? |
| 20:07.43 | maquis | http://pastebin.com/575412 |
| 20:08.03 | maquis | elg: semget error: No space left on device. Try deleting some semaphores with ipcs and ipcrm |
| 20:08.07 | Bradipo | elg: She is running into either shared memory problems or semaphore problems when trying to install something. |
| 20:08.20 | elg | isn't there an ip* command that tells you that info? |
| 20:08.25 | Bradipo | I guess this error actually only refers to semaphors. |
| 20:09.06 | maquis | elg: yeah... ipcs |
| 20:09.08 | Bradipo | maquis: Since it says the problem is with semaphores, can you get the relevant info from sysctl -a regarding semaphores as well? |
| 20:09.32 | Bradipo | elg: ipcs will show how much is in use, but it won't show limits, right? |
| 20:09.51 | maquis | http://pastebin.com/575416 |
| 20:10.01 | goozbach | fraking updates |
| 20:10.23 | maquis | if semvmx is the max number, i don't think i'm close to that |
| 20:12.11 | Bradipo | semmni is: The maximum number of semaphore identifiers allowed. |
| 20:12.22 | Bradipo | semmns is: The maximum number of semaphores allowed in the system. |
| 20:12.45 | Bradipo | semmsl is: The maximum number of semaphores allowed per ID. |
| 20:12.50 | maquis | so, i'm only allowing 10 semaphore identifiers, and 60 total semaphores? |
| 20:13.13 | Bradipo | I'm not sure what the difference is between an identifier and the actual semaphore. |
| 20:13.22 | Bradipo | But you have semmns set to 60. |
| 20:13.28 | Bradipo | Which should allow 60 semaphores. |
| 20:13.45 | Bradipo | You have 17+17+17+8 |
| 20:13.55 | Bradipo | In use. |
| 20:13.59 | Bradipo | From the output of ipcs -a |
| 20:14.20 | Bradipo | That totals 59, so it sounds like you are hitting the semaphore limit. |
| 20:14.27 | maquis | ah |
| 20:14.48 | maquis | so, postgres is taking up most of them... |
| 20:14.58 | Bradipo | semmns or semmsl or both. |
| 20:15.05 | Bradipo | Yeah. |
| 20:15.12 | maquis | since this is my laptop, i could probably kill postgres for now |
| 20:15.14 | maquis | i'm not using it today |
| 20:15.17 | Bradipo | Rather than deleting semaphores, maybe you should just increase the maximums. |
| 20:15.21 | Bradipo | Right. |
| 20:15.28 | Bradipo | That should work too. |
| 20:25.34 | maquis | Bradipo: thanks a ton |
| 20:25.37 | maquis | looks like it's working now :) |
| 20:25.56 | Bradipo | Cool. |
| 20:30.36 | *** join/#utah JoshH (i=josh@josh.xmission.com) |
| 20:31.25 | sjansen | ~frak goozbach |
| 21:07.13 | Bradipo | Anyone see my CVS question last week? |
| 21:27.50 | *** join/#utah bzob (n=bzobrist@nat.myfamilyinc.com) |
| 21:33.42 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp30.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 21:53.40 | sjansen | xmlstarlet++ |
| 21:53.44 | sjansen | fc5-- |
| 21:58.19 | *** join/#utah Lone_Wanderer (n=chatzill@c-71-199-3-172.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 22:00.32 | *** join/#utah amcnabb (n=amcnabb@128.187.173.123) |
| 22:05.27 | Lone_Wanderer | Does SICP provide a fairly decent introduction to lambda calculus? |
| 22:09.27 | *** join/#utah synic (n=synic@pdpc/supporter/student/synic) |
| 22:13.38 | sjansen | fontlab++ |
| 22:14.23 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: Not really, but it provides a fairly decent introduction to a wide variety of more 'practical' CS concepts. |
| 22:14.39 | Lone_Wanderer | mmkay |
| 22:15.02 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: Essentials of Programming Languages has a bit of a Lambda Calculus intro. |
| 22:15.15 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: At least the edition I have does. Not sure about the newer edition. |
| 22:15.36 | Lone_Wanderer | k. who's it by? |
| 22:15.37 | levi | Wikipedia has a decent article on it, though. |
| 22:15.44 | Lone_Wanderer | is it likely that I can find it at the local bookstore? |
| 22:15.57 | levi | You can find it in the BYU Bookstore, at least. |
| 22:16.08 | levi | It's a textbook for one of the classes there. |
| 22:16.31 | levi | http://www.cs.indiana.edu/eopl/ |
| 22:16.32 | brac | [Essentials of Programming Languages, 2nd ed] |
| 22:18.50 | Lone_Wanderer | oh ok |
| 22:18.58 | levi | Do you have a particular reason for looking into the lambda calculus, or just curiosity? |
| 22:19.09 | Lone_Wanderer | Just curiosity. |
| 22:19.18 | Lone_Wanderer | I hear the term bandied about quite a bit and thought I'd look into it. |
| 22:19.31 | maquis | Lone_Wanderer: i'd offer you my copy of eopl, but i sold it back to the bookstore... |
| 22:19.38 | Lone_Wanderer | No worries. |
| 22:19.44 | maquis | they've got some used ones, probably, though |
| 22:19.51 | Lone_Wanderer | I'll probably just read the Wikipedia article on it and move on. |
| 22:19.56 | maquis | and iirc, it wasn't one of the more expensive books :) |
| 22:19.59 | levi | If you just want an idea of what it's like, the Wikipedia entry is probably fine. |
| 22:21.24 | Lone_Wanderer | I need to finish GEB before I buy any more technical + fun books. |
| 22:22.04 | Lone_Wanderer | But I'm to the part where you actually have to do the exercises to follow along, and I'm lazy. |
| 22:29.06 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: I've never managed to finish GEB. Great book, though. :) |
| 22:29.16 | Lone_Wanderer | Yeah it is. |
| 22:29.27 | maquis | ~GEB |
| 22:29.29 | ibot | i guess geb is Gödel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid by Douglas R. Hofstadter or one of the best non-fiction books ever written or a study of the nature of consciousness and how it can arise from deterministic processes |
| 22:29.53 | maquis | cool... i saw that on amazon, and thought it sounded pretty interesting |
| 22:30.04 | levi | maquis: It's awesome. |
| 22:30.15 | levi | maquis: It's also a great intro to a lot of CS concepts. |
| 22:31.18 | levi | Plus it's got these incredibly clever dialog chapters. |
| 22:31.46 | maquis | levi: i'll probably get around to it sometime after i graduate |
| 22:31.59 | levi | Where there's some sort of message embedded in the pattern of the text as well as the text itself. |
| 22:32.03 | maquis | i've got a rather hefty pile of tech books that i keep meaning to read, but haven't gotten around to... |
| 22:32.06 | Lone_Wanderer | The Crab Cannon is my favorite so far. |
| 22:32.26 | Lone_Wanderer | It's the same backwards as it is forward. |
| 22:32.37 | maquis | have any of you ever read "How Not To Program in C++"? |
| 22:32.47 | levi | Nope. |
| 22:32.54 | levi | Not that I remember, at least. |
| 22:33.15 | maquis | it's kinda interesting... in essence, it's a bunch of actual C/C++ code, each of which has a little bug hidden someplace |
| 22:33.17 | Lone_Wanderer | Use Python instead? |
| 22:33.25 | Lone_Wanderer | that'd be cool |
| 22:33.28 | Lone_Wanderer | like Find Waldo, only not. |
| 22:33.52 | maquis | it's organized from "simple" to "impossible" :) |
| 22:34.03 | Lone_Wanderer | cool |
| 22:34.06 | maquis | the simple ones are little things like missing semicolons and such |
| 22:34.14 | Lone_Wanderer | did you ever solve any of the impossible ones? |
| 22:34.17 | maquis | haha |
| 22:34.25 | Lone_Wanderer | Is... that a no? |
| 22:34.40 | maquis | i haven't had a chance to look at it since about a month after i first started learning c++ :) |
| 22:35.04 | maquis | so, i didn't get through all the beginning ones at that point |
| 22:35.10 | maquis | i'm wanting to go back and work some more on it :) |
| 22:38.20 | maquis | sjansen: ?? |
| 22:38.33 | maquis | sjansen: i bet you'd enjoy the C ones... :) |
| 22:38.52 | findlay | wasn't c invented by cavemen? |
| 22:38.57 | maquis | most of the problems are actually things that are relevant in C and C++ |
| 22:39.40 | levi | Alas, I've tried to dissuade maquis from her admiration of C, but I have thusfar failed. |
| 22:40.23 | findlay | ~c++ |
| 22:40.38 | maquis | levi: attempting to convert me to scheme wasn't a good method :-P |
| 22:40.52 | *** join/#utah spr (n=spr@c-24-10-236-93.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 22:40.55 | levi | I was only doing that because you had a class in it at the time. |
| 22:41.01 | maquis | :) |
| 22:41.06 | levi | You just had a bad attitude about it. :P |
| 22:41.20 | maquis | haha |
| 22:42.08 | levi | It takes a little bit of effort to 'get' how to program in Scheme, just as it does to 'get' how to program in C. But the result is vastly more rewarding. |
| 22:42.40 | maquis | levi: out of C, C++ or Java, which would you prefer programming in? |
| 22:43.04 | levi | If I was writing something for which Java was an option, I'd probably choose it. |
| 22:44.02 | levi | Because, although it has some painful aspects, it's the least painful of the three. |
| 22:44.21 | sjansen | scheme is good, c is good, perl/python/ruby are all good, c++ is an evil alien plot |
| 22:44.36 | levi | maquis: Pointers are evil. You need to get over them. |
| 22:44.52 | maquis | sjansen: c++ isn't too bad, if you ignore all the stuff c++ added to c :) |
| 22:45.13 | sjansen | Pointers are fun like crossword puzzles are fun. But their hardly a good foundation for society. |
| 22:45.25 | levi | Or a program! |
| 22:45.35 | sjansen | s/their/they're/ |
| 22:45.35 | jsmith | sjansen: So you're saying that crossword puzzles aren't a good foundation for society? |
| 22:45.59 | levi | They are useful in C only because C is so horribly disfigured that you have to use them to get anything interesting done. |
| 22:46.29 | levi | Or to get uninteresting things done with any efficiency. |
| 23:07.06 | maquis | ~hug antiword |
| 23:07.07 | ibot | ACTION hugs antiword |
| 23:11.19 | sjansen | bash++ |
| 23:13.20 | *** join/#utah nick125-treo (n=ptpChat@m010e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 23:15.01 | levi | Ew, bash-- |
| 23:16.10 | spr | zsh++ |
| 23:16.56 | levi | scsh++ ! |
| 23:21.45 | *** join/#utah drewbono (n=andrew@128.187.173.181) |
| 23:22.11 | *** join/#utah xbmodder_lappy (i=nobody@xbmodder.us) |
| 23:23.28 | xbmodder_lappy | PING |
| 23:26.16 | nick125-treo | hey.. |
| 23:27.13 | xbmodder_lappy | yeah |
| 23:27.13 | xbmodder_lappy | sweet |
| 23:27.13 | xbmodder_lappy | :-/ |
| 23:35.38 | sjansen | s/knowtweakers.net/knobtweakers.net/ |
| 23:38.16 | findlay | ibot: how short is your memory? |
| 23:38.18 | ibot | findlay: what are you talking about? |
| 23:38.29 | findlay | ibot: I thought you were a learning robot |
| 23:38.31 | ibot | You thought you were a learning robot? |
| 23:38.38 | findlay | ibot: yes |
| 23:38.40 | ibot | You don't say! |
| 23:39.57 | nick125 | xbmodder_lappy: hey |
| 23:41.42 | xbmodder_lappy | hi |
| 23:41.43 | xbmodder_lappy | sup |
| 23:41.58 | nick125 | wow...look at what 16MB of RAM could do: |
| 23:42.00 | nick125 | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:42.00 | nick125 | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:42.00 | nick125 | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:42.00 | nick125 | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:42.25 | nick125 | first one with 48MB, second one with 64MB |
| 23:42.39 | mheath | mheath: Is there any way, with any reliability, to determine when I might be able to ship off, so I can know (before I enlist and go through MEPS, to know for sure) when I'll be shipping off with the Navy? |
| 23:42.51 | xbmodder_lappy | lol |
| 23:42.53 | mheath | mheath: I know QM A school is 10 weeks, so it shouldn't be that long, but I'm looking for some more specific information |
| 23:42.56 | mheath | Mark: OK |
| 23:43.12 | xbmodder_lappy | ? |
| 23:43.16 | mheath | All he's said the whole conversation is "OK" twice, and I've been sitting here with nothing for like 5 minutes. |
| 23:43.24 | xbmodder_lappy | lol |
| 23:43.42 | xbmodder_lappy | harleypig? |
| 23:43.50 | mheath | xbmodder_lappy: ...... |
| 23:43.54 | mheath | No, a US Navy recruiter. |
| 23:44.10 | xbmodder_lappy | oh |
| 23:44.12 | xbmodder_lappy | hehe |
| 23:44.36 | xbmodder_lappy | do they have an IRC channel ;-)? |
| 23:44.53 | mheath | No. This is 1-on-1 java chat on their website |
| 23:45.41 | mheath | Mark: OK |
| 23:45.44 | mheath | mheath: Did I lose you? |
| 23:45.48 | mheath | Mark: What is your question? |
| 23:45.55 | nick125 | LOL |
| 23:46.05 | mheath | mheath: I just spent a while typing several paragraphs. All you said was "OK" twice. Do you want me to repeat? |
| 23:46.46 | goozbach | maybe it's a really good AI |
| 23:46.50 | mheath | Mark: What is your question? |
| 23:47.07 | nick125 | rofl |
| 23:47.54 | goozbach | hook the emacs pyscaitrists up to a java chat... |
| 23:47.58 | mheath | mheath: Am I talking to a real person? |
| 23:48.02 | mheath | Mark: Yes |
| 23:48.08 | mheath | Mark: Do you have a Navy related question? |
| 23:48.12 | goozbach | 2) ??? |
| 23:48.19 | goozbach | 3) profit |
| 23:48.29 | mheath | mheath: YES. I've told it to you twice, and all you've said is "OK" and "What is your question?" |
| 23:48.40 | mheath | Then the session was forced closed. |
| 23:48.46 | goozbach | heh |
| 23:48.56 | mheath | I HATE RECRUITERS |
| 23:48.59 | mheath | How do they get people? |
| 23:49.04 | nick125 | i can see why you hate them.. |
| 23:49.07 | mheath | Seriously, I'm JOINING the Navy. I can't WAIT until I enlist |
| 23:49.12 | mheath | And they ANNOY ME to no end! |
| 23:49.19 | xbmodder_lappy | lol |
| 23:49.48 | xbmodder_lappy | mheath, That is hilarious... |
| 23:50.08 | xbmodder_lappy | I know the person who used to say that their child died |
| 23:51.02 | nick125 | mheath: I wonder how they got that great of AI.. |
| 23:51.16 | nick125 | either that, or they have some pretty stupid people working there.. |
| 23:51.25 | mheath | nick125: Yeah. They run commercials talking about how they're the most technologically advanced military force in the world |
| 23:51.42 | mheath | Yet their bots only say "OK" and "Do you have a Navy related question?" "What is your question?" |
| 23:52.19 | maquis | mheath: and "Yes" |
| 23:52.56 | *** join/#utah drewbono (n=andrew@128.187.173.181) |
| 23:54.29 | mheath | "Navy Chat is a one-on-one, highly personalized forum that gives you the chance to ask a Navy expert questions about career opportunities, scholarships, Navy life and any other Navy-related subject matter." |
| 23:54.47 | nick125 | LOL |
| 23:55.33 | xbmodder_lappy | mheath, can you take my computer to training and use it for target practice, please? |
| 23:55.50 | findlay | ~bzfrag xbmodder_lappy |
| 23:55.51 | ibot | ACTION makes xbmodder_lappy feel the effects of a shockwave |
| 23:56.04 | findlay | ~bzfrag xbmodder_lappy_box |
| 23:56.06 | ibot | ACTION squishes xbmodder_lappy_box with a steamroller |
| 23:57.49 | xbmodder_lappy | They said "We are going to have the owner take over your case" |
| 23:57.51 | xbmodder_lappy | err... |
| 23:58.31 | xbmodder_lappy | Then two weeks later I said "Hello, can the owner contact me" and he said "Sir, if you have a problem please call us, I do not have any records of the owner taking this case" |