| 00:00.55 | xbmodder_lappy | my sister's iBook.. |
| 00:01.55 | levi | Maybe she's got some screwy software installed. |
| 00:02.07 | levi | My iBook doesn't kernel panic. |
| 00:02.40 | jsmith | maquis: No, a personal project |
| 00:03.47 | maquis | jsmith: ah |
| 00:03.58 | xbmodder_lappy | levi, fun fun. |
| 00:05.13 | xbmodder_lappy | FreeBSD == evil; |
| 00:05.20 | maquis | no |
| 00:12.40 | xbmodder_lappy | first look in dmesg, for the device being plugged in. |
| 00:12.52 | maquis | xbmodder_lappy: i've gotten past that point |
| 00:13.07 | maquis | it's supposed to have created an entry in /dev/ that doesn't exist |
| 00:20.27 | xbmodder_lappy | what version? |
| 00:25.04 | maquis | 6.0 |
| 00:30.01 | maquis | gah... |
| 00:30.27 | maquis | my roommate and her friend are *SO* loud! |
| 00:30.49 | xbmodder_lappy | why don't you noise-proof your room? |
| 00:31.00 | maquis | xbmodder_lappy: how? |
| 00:31.08 | xbmodder_lappy | i don't know.. |
| 00:31.14 | xbmodder_lappy | try to noise-proof your head? |
| 00:31.24 | maquis | it's a tiny apartment, and we can't do much of anything to it |
| 00:31.57 | xbmodder_lappy | oh :( |
| 00:32.07 | QBFreak | rocket launcher |
| 00:32.10 | QBFreak | they do wonders |
| 00:32.12 | xbmodder_lappy | lol |
| 00:32.27 | xbmodder_lappy | bose headphones are cheaper, safer, and better |
| 00:32.35 | QBFreak | but not nearly as much fun |
| 00:33.55 | xbmodder_lappy | yeah |
| 00:33.58 | xbmodder_lappy | 300 bucks |
| 00:34.10 | QBFreak | for a rocket launcher? |
| 00:34.54 | xbmodder_lappy | no no |
| 00:34.59 | QBFreak | tomatoes in a potato cannon might scare them into silence |
| 00:35.08 | *** join/#utah bigdog_ut (n=Frank_Bl@207.135.132.13) |
| 00:35.29 | *** join/#utah dilvie (n=dilvie@c-67-161-253-245.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 00:35.42 | xbmodder_lappy | a small spud gun is cheap |
| 00:35.44 | xbmodder_lappy | like 150 |
| 00:36.01 | xbmodder_lappy | might scare them a little |
| 00:36.10 | xbmodder_lappy | or put a hole in them |
| 00:36.24 | QBFreak | but if you use skinned tomatos from a can... |
| 00:36.40 | QBFreak | more mess, less pain I would think |
| 00:36.58 | maquis | my roommate's boyfriend just yelled my name... he has an odd tendency to always want me to come out there so he can say hi whenever he comes over |
| 00:37.09 | maquis | i don't remember his name, and i don't want to go out there |
| 00:37.27 | jsmith | maquis: But he's secretly in love with you, not your roommate |
| 00:37.38 | xbmodder_lappy | come out? |
| 00:37.38 | dilvie | http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2006/2/1/2728 |
| 00:37.50 | xbmodder_lappy | do you live in a hole? |
| 00:38.21 | maquis | jsmith: if that's so... so be it... he's not my type, unfortunately |
| 00:38.32 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 00:54.05 | ScytheBlade1 | heh @ maquis |
| 00:54.10 | ScytheBlade1 | I have six *younger* sisters |
| 00:54.16 | ScytheBlade1 | And, if you'll remember, I'm still in high school |
| 00:54.41 | xbmodder_lappy | ScytheBlade1, like 1-5 years old? 5-10? 10-15? 15-17? |
| 00:54.51 | ScytheBlade1 | Grades: 9, 8, 7, 6, and 5 |
| 00:55.12 | QBFreak | so 10-14? |
| 00:55.22 | ScytheBlade1 | Or so, yes |
| 00:55.35 | xbmodder_lappy | 9th grade? |
| 00:55.56 | xbmodder_lappy | I'd hate to have a sister go to my school |
| 00:56.03 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm in 12th, and note |
| 00:56.08 | ScytheBlade1 | Schools in utah aren't the same in cali |
| 00:56.13 | xbmodder_lappy | oh |
| 00:56.25 | ScytheBlade1 | 10-12 = high school, 7-9 = middle school |
| 00:56.34 | ScytheBlade1 | Even though your 9th grade marks count, still, different schools |
| 00:59.00 | xbmodder_lappy | good.. you were never in the same school. |
| 00:59.04 | xbmodder_lappy | do they get along? |
| 00:59.20 | ScytheBlade1 | As well as sisters do. |
| 00:59.22 | maquis | they probably steal each others clothes and such |
| 00:59.25 | ScytheBlade1 | There's a reason I want to leave as soon as possible ;) |
| 00:59.26 | ScytheBlade1 | They do |
| 00:59.31 | ScytheBlade1 | Add three years |
| 00:59.34 | maquis | it'll all get worse when they hit high school |
| 00:59.36 | ScytheBlade1 | 12, 11, 10, 9, and 8 |
| 01:00.36 | ScytheBlade1 | * maquis curls up in a corner and waits for all the annoying loudness to leave the apartment <-- I only play the role of the male basement dweller with a computer because it's the only quiet place in the house ;) |
| 01:09.42 | xbmodder_lappy | hehe. |
| 01:14.18 | maquis | ScytheBlade1: it could be worse |
| 01:14.58 | maquis | (or maybe the boy was 9th... he was either 9th or 10th) |
| 01:17.25 | xbmodder_lappy | that really sucks. |
| 01:19.53 | ScytheBlade1 | Ouch. |
| 01:37.23 | emcnabb | putting furniture together is not fun |
| 01:40.50 | maquis | haha |
| 01:59.22 | tensai | putting together childrens toys at 1am is not fun either |
| 02:00.13 | maquis | emcnabb: what are you putting together? |
| 02:16.33 | xbmodder_lappy | emcnabb, :( |
| 02:16.58 | xbmodder_lappy | one more reason I am not going to get married. |
| 02:23.06 | levi | Man, are there any happy Chinese movies? |
| 02:24.04 | xbmodder_lappy | which is about? |
| 02:24.32 | maquis | levi: i haven't seen hat one... but no... there really aren't |
| 02:24.38 | maquis | levi: have you seen "To Live"? |
| 02:24.49 | levi | maquis: HoFD is pretty good. Haven't seen To Live. |
| 02:25.01 | maquis | To Live is extremely sad... |
| 02:25.10 | maquis | the wedding banquet is actually not sad |
| 02:25.23 | maquis | it's really funny |
| 02:25.40 | maquis | and then there's another one about a chinese family that comes to visit their relatives in the US... that one's not sad either |
| 02:25.54 | xbmodder_lappy | shao-lin soccer is cool i hink |
| 02:26.14 | maquis | that one has some disturbing parts... especially that one part at the beginning |
| 02:26.40 | maquis | where they break the guy's leg with a baseball bat... |
| 02:26.52 | levi | maquis: I've only seen the big ones, like Crouching Tiger, Hero, and House of Flying Daggers. |
| 02:27.06 | maquis | levi: and out of those, i've only seen crouching tiger :) |
| 02:27.15 | maquis | mulan is fun to watch in chinese, btw |
| 02:27.20 | maquis | i want to get a copy of that... |
| 02:27.22 | levi | The other two are both very good. |
| 02:27.38 | levi | The imagery is just beautiful. |
| 02:27.42 | maquis | :) |
| 02:28.10 | maquis | my favorite movie in chinese is still the bu hao movie: long live the monkey king... |
| 02:28.41 | maquis | (the cast is 120 people from my high school, and it is hilarious... i didn't end up joining in, but i was involved a bit in some of the planning discussions) |
| 02:30.03 | dna3e8 | What are some of the commands for converting a string to an integer in any programing language? |
| 02:30.33 | maquis | dna3e8: what programming language are you looking for? |
| 02:30.38 | maquis | there isn't one that works for everything |
| 02:31.18 | maquis | in C, it's atoi()... in python, it's int() (i think)... |
| 02:31.39 | tensai | it's simple in perl, just use it in an integer context |
| 02:31.49 | tensai | Integer.parseInt() in Java |
| 02:32.54 | xbmodder_lappy | whats a good online C++ guide or tutorial? |
| 02:33.30 | maquis | cppreference.com |
| 02:35.07 | xbmodder_lappy | lemme guess, you got that off google? |
| 02:35.14 | maquis | no |
| 02:35.18 | maquis | i've used it a ton |
| 02:35.19 | xbmodder_lappy | oh |
| 02:35.20 | xbmodder_lappy | ok |
| 02:35.23 | xbmodder_lappy | thanks :) |
| 02:35.27 | maquis | that's what they recommended in cs240 |
| 02:36.02 | maquis | wow.. windy out there |
| 02:37.24 | dna3e8 | it blew my stuff of the window sill |
| 02:37.44 | dna3e8 | I am actually using fortran but .... and need some leads |
| 02:40.22 | levi | Don't hear about people using Fortran much around here. :) |
| 02:41.13 | maquis | stupid sound card on my debian box isn't working |
| 02:41.21 | dna3e8 | ANd there is good reason |
| 02:41.28 | dna3e8 | no one uses fortran |
| 02:41.41 | xbmodder_lappy | Are the ballpoint styluses any good? |
| 02:42.23 | dna3e8 | maquis: what a quiet problem... |
| 02:42.28 | maquis | dna3e8: yeah |
| 02:42.31 | maquis | unfortunately |
| 02:42.37 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 02:43.01 | dna3e8 | o/~stay |
| 02:45.34 | *** join/#utah ScytheBlade1 (n=Death@about/pxe/ScytheBlade1) |
| 02:55.41 | xbmodder_lappy | That was a good movie... |
| 03:00.39 | xbmodder_lappy | anyone here have ptunes? |
| 03:14.17 | maquis | http://go.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=oddlyEnoughNews&storyID=11094930§ion=news |
| 03:14.20 | brac | [Oddly Enough News Article | Reuters.com] |
| 03:19.54 | mrpull-x | garrrrr... the storm just screwed up my dish. no tv on the day before superbowl sunday? |
| 03:22.57 | xbmodder_lappy | :( |
| 03:23.32 | mrpull-x | AND i just payed for a PPV movie |
| 03:23.55 | maquis | mrpull-x: ick |
| 03:24.20 | mrpull-x | i imagine they'll credit me back the movie |
| 03:26.32 | xbmodder_lappy | wwhat company |
| 03:26.49 | mrpull-x | DirectTV |
| 03:41.48 | ScytheBlade1 | Could be worse, you could have mine. |
| 03:42.02 | ScytheBlade1 | I've burned out a CPU, all of my USB support, primary ATA bridge, and two HDs within the past day |
| 03:42.23 | maquis | ouch |
| 03:42.28 | maquis | that doesn't sound fun |
| 03:42.28 | mrpull-x | ScytheBlade1: ouch. 2X |
| 03:42.30 | maquis | how'd you do that? |
| 03:42.39 | ScytheBlade1 | January First, 2006 |
| 03:42.46 | ScytheBlade1 | The pump died in my liquid cooling :/ |
| 03:42.50 | maquis | ah |
| 03:42.52 | ScytheBlade1 | 153C = shutdown point |
| 03:43.03 | maquis | how'd it get that hot? |
| 03:43.05 | ScytheBlade1 | It toasted one CPU |
| 03:43.10 | ScytheBlade1 | The water stopped circulating |
| 03:43.25 | ScytheBlade1 | I wasn't home at the time, but I'd imagine that the water got very very hot rather quickly |
| 03:43.28 | maquis | one of my fans was out for a month on my server, and it never had any problems |
| 03:43.47 | maquis | (granted, it was winter, and the window was open) |
| 03:43.53 | maquis | you overclocking or anything like that? |
| 03:43.56 | ScytheBlade1 | Nope |
| 03:44.01 | ScytheBlade1 | It's a beefy box... or was, rather |
| 03:44.09 | ScytheBlade1 | Dual 2600+ MPs, 4GB of EEC RAM |
| 03:44.15 | ScytheBlade1 | Had four HDs, is now down to two |
| 03:44.26 | ScytheBlade1 | Down to a processor, 3GB of RAM |
| 03:44.28 | maquis | wow.. much nicer than mine |
| 03:44.38 | ScytheBlade1 | Well, the USB is an exception |
| 03:44.40 | ScytheBlade1 | It was 1.1 |
| 03:44.44 | ScytheBlade1 | And hardware-bugged :P |
| 03:44.50 | ScytheBlade1 | Two slots on-board, and two more via pin headers |
| 03:44.55 | xbmodder_lappy | how do I get an indice of a string in C? |
| 03:45.00 | ScytheBlade1 | If you used the pin headers and the slots, it'd hard-lock |
| 03:45.11 | ScytheBlade1 | If you had a later revision of the mobo, the USB was present, just 100% disabled |
| 03:45.51 | ScytheBlade1 | (Along with a ream of other quirks. The hardware NMI watchdog was toast on a computer, preventing me from debugging my NIC. The guy on the LKML-Networking list called my mobo the "bi-AMD motherboard from hell") |
| 03:46.48 | ScytheBlade1 | here's the line: "(it seems that you use the bi-AMD motherboard of hell: be sure to plug a |
| 03:46.48 | ScytheBlade1 | PS2 mouse)" |
| 03:46.56 | xbmodder_lappy | why does this code segfault: |
| 03:46.57 | xbmodder_lappy | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:46.58 | xbmodder_lappy | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:46.58 | xbmodder_lappy | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:47.19 | levi | Heh. |
| 03:47.28 | xbmodder_lappy | what? |
| 03:47.41 | levi | Because C sucks, and you haven't warped your mind to fit it yet. |
| 03:47.52 | xbmodder_lappy | ? |
| 03:47.53 | levi | Do the right thing and get a decent language. |
| 03:48.09 | ScytheBlade1 | Out of (literally) morbid curiosity |
| 03:48.12 | maquis | xbmodder_lappy: levi's just bitter |
| 03:48.14 | ScytheBlade1 | What's a 'decent language'? |
| 03:48.20 | xbmodder_lappy | python |
| 03:48.24 | maquis | ScytheBlade1: he'll say scheme or lisp |
| 03:48.38 | levi | Well, they are decent languages, but there are many others as well. |
| 03:48.40 | xbmodder_lappy | C++ is ugly (looks like umm... ASCII art) |
| 03:49.15 | ScytheBlade1 | levi: like? |
| 03:49.16 | mrpull-x | hey hey... dish is back |
| 03:49.29 | levi | I think people who like one of C, C++, and Java but hate the others due to aesthetics must be smoking some pretty strong stuff, since they're virtually identical. |
| 03:49.35 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm honestly curious as to why you think this |
| 03:49.35 | levi | maquis: You're just bitter. |
| 03:49.46 | maquis | levi: quite true |
| 03:49.56 | levi | ScytheBlade1: I wrote a 20 page paper on what I don't like about C. Want to see it? |
| 03:50.03 | ScytheBlade1 | Yes, actually, I rather would |
| 03:50.15 | levi | OK, I've got to find the URL again. |
| 03:50.16 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm not asking from a biased perspective, but rather, inquisitive |
| 03:50.56 | levi | http://lifeoflevi.com/CDeficiencies.pdf |
| 03:51.06 | ScytheBlade1 | Hmm, .pdf |
| 03:51.12 | ScytheBlade1 | Let's hope that kpdf has been rebuilt |
| 03:51.35 | levi | (It was a class assignment, so excuse all the silly front matter and stuff. |
| 03:51.37 | levi | ) |
| 03:51.40 | ScytheBlade1 | Ah |
| 03:52.42 | ScytheBlade1 | "C should be replaced with languages that support concurrency natively" |
| 03:52.47 | ScytheBlade1 | That's rather, uh, strong |
| 03:52.50 | levi | I'm currently fond of Smalltalk, Common Lisp, and Scheme. I've written useful programs in CL and Scheme, and hacked around a bit in Smalltalk. |
| 03:53.01 | levi | ScytheBlade1: Read the paper to see my supporting arguments! |
| 03:53.05 | ScytheBlade1 | I am ;) |
| 03:53.14 | ScytheBlade1 | But that's a heck of an introduction, preaching that C should die |
| 03:53.24 | levi | It may be strong, but I'm not the first (nor the brightest) person to say it. |
| 03:53.42 | ScytheBlade1 | And I have heard this before, but I'd just like to know *why* |
| 03:54.15 | levi | For scripting, I'm familiar enough with Python to find it pleasant to program in. |
| 03:54.25 | ScytheBlade1 | Scripting is another realm |
| 03:54.48 | ScytheBlade1 | Hey, look at that, kpdf locked up |
| 03:54.58 | levi | And I wrote part of my build system (for a C project) at work in Python. It does a lot of code generation, which cuts down on C errors a lot. |
| 03:55.23 | levi | I think Ruby is kind of cool, from a distance, but I've never tried it. |
| 03:55.45 | levi | I've only written trivial programs in Dylan, but I think it's very slick. |
| 03:56.02 | xbmodder_lappy | python is cool |
| 03:56.10 | xbmodder_lappy | but not at all scalable |
| 03:56.21 | levi | Definitely a candidate for building real programs, though it doesn't have a lot of support aside from a small open source group. |
| 03:56.30 | ScytheBlade1 | Blah, locked it up again |
| 03:56.32 | levi | Python will be scalable. |
| 03:56.37 | ScytheBlade1 | Time to attempt xpdf |
| 03:57.00 | ScytheBlade1 | Nope |
| 03:57.20 | mrpull-x | xbmodder_lappy: what are you building with python that isn't scaling? |
| 03:57.20 | xbmodder_lappy | levi, when? |
| 03:57.22 | ScytheBlade1 | I upgraded from gcc 3.3 to 3.4... and I'm currently re-building the system (gentoo) |
| 03:57.25 | ScytheBlade1 | Hence... the lockups |
| 03:57.29 | xbmodder_lappy | mrpull-x, IRC servers. |
| 03:57.40 | maquis | gah |
| 03:57.44 | ScytheBlade1 | ... |
| 03:57.52 | maquis | /dev/dsp: No such device |
| 03:57.53 | mrpull-x | xbmodder_lappy: from what aspect isn't it scaling? |
| 03:57.59 | levi | I've used Digital Mars D to write some small programs for a class, and aside from some documentation issues, it was pretty decent. It's got a pretty strong C/C++/Java flavor, but with a smart design. |
| 03:58.19 | xbmodder_lappy | thing starts to lag and/or die after a while |
| 03:58.24 | ScytheBlade1 | levi: here's the argument I always hear point right back at the naysayers of C: |
| 03:58.26 | levi | If you really like C, there are some C-variants that have a lot of C's issues resolved. |
| 03:58.27 | ScytheBlade1 | Well, argumentS |
| 03:58.34 | mrpull-x | xbmodder_lappy: because? |
| 03:58.34 | xbmodder_lappy | levi, like? |
| 03:58.46 | levi | Cyclone, Single Assignment C, etc. |
| 03:58.55 | mrpull-x | xbmodder_lappy: did you reimplement it in a different language more successfully? |
| 03:58.59 | xbmodder_lappy | mrpull-x, for ever connection we require about 2% CPU usage. |
| 03:59.04 | xbmodder_lappy | mrpull-x, nope. |
| 03:59.50 | levi | Ada is another language that I admire from a distance. It's on my list of languages to learn, but it has a lot of cool design elements. |
| 03:59.52 | ScytheBlade1 | 1) You can program in all of the python, C#, ruby, perl, you like, but you'll never reach the effeciency that C could due to the layering... namely, an example, you can write an app that uses TCP/IP and have it interface directly to the stack. Perl, for example, won't, as it has to pass through all of perl's stuff to hit the stack |
| 03:59.58 | mrpull-x | 2% cpu/user does sound high. were you programming with sockets or some hire level libs? |
| 04:00.36 | ScytheBlade1 | 2) Sure, buffer overflows suck, but all of the people I know who really know C... learned to deal with it. Kinda like PHP, how a beginner can make it work, but horribly, yet an expert can make it fly |
| 04:00.37 | mrpull-x | s/hire/higher/ |
| 04:00.53 | levi | ScytheBlade1: Those are silly arguments. Here's why: |
| 04:00.59 | mrpull-x | whoa... i haven't seen that ibot function |
| 04:01.00 | mrpull-x | niiice |
| 04:01.03 | ScytheBlade1 | s/make it work/make it "work"/ |
| 04:01.08 | xbmodder_lappy | mrpull-x, TCP sockets. |
| 04:02.36 | xbmodder_lappy | problem was keeping a dict of the sockets and looping through it killed the server after ~500 connections |
| 04:03.01 | mrpull-x | xbmodder_lappy: I dont think your one example is substantial enough to make the generalization that python doesn't scale at all |
| 04:03.42 | mrpull-x | maybe twisted would have been a good fit |
| 04:03.56 | levi | 1) Languages cannot be judged based on program efficiency, because languages do not produce code; language implemntations (compilers, interpreters) do. Some make efficient implementations harder, though. They are usually doing work that would be required to produce similar effects in C, though with some administrative overhead. With complex programs that are flexible and dynamic, C loses in how long it takes to build and debug software, and does not per |
| 04:04.15 | levi | Also, premature optimization is a cardinal sin of programmers. |
| 04:04.41 | ScytheBlade1 | True |
| 04:04.49 | ScytheBlade1 | Mind finishing the first point though? ;) |
| 04:04.51 | levi | 2) Trivial program errors cost billions of dollars and destroy software projects. 'Just dealing with it' when there are tools that eliminate them is stupid. |
| 04:04.55 | ScytheBlade1 | the server cut you off |
| 04:05.03 | levi | What was the last part you saw? |
| 04:05.04 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@204.14.21.69) |
| 04:05.08 | ScytheBlade1 | " and does not pe" |
| 04:06.09 | levi | and does not perform significantly faster than a program implemented in another language with a decently speedy implementation. |
| 04:06.12 | levi | \ |
| 04:06.56 | ScytheBlade1 | Yeah, I agree with that |
| 04:06.57 | maquis | erins@anubis:~$ Message: device: default |
| 04:06.57 | maquis | Gdk-ERROR **: BadWindow (invalid Window parameter) |
| 04:06.57 | maquis | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:06.57 | maquis | Gdk-ERROR **: BadAccess (attempt to access private resource denied) |
| 04:06.57 | maquis | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:07.04 | *** part/#utah xbmodder_lappy (i=nobody@xbmodder.us) |
| 04:07.06 | ScytheBlade1 | Although, I think you misunderstood my point #2 |
| 04:07.46 | levi | Experts write bugs in C code, too. |
| 04:08.02 | *** join/#utah xbmodder_lappy (i=nobody@xbmodder.us) |
| 04:08.21 | maquis | ok... so, i can get xmms remotely from my server, so long as i don't click anything |
| 04:08.28 | ScytheBlade1 | They don't "just deal with it." It's part of their basic knowledge, how to code things correctly for the language, hence preventing a huge majority of problems. That applies to every langauge period, and while I'm not saying that they're perfect, I've noticed it far more in C than any other language |
| 04:08.45 | ScytheBlade1 | (where 'it' is the difference between competent programmers and... not) |
| 04:08.57 | levi | Leaving C behind is the way to go for precisely the same reason assembly has been left behind in the common case. |
| 04:09.05 | levi | There are better tools available now. |
| 04:09.17 | ScytheBlade1 | All right, so then, what do you do in the case of the kernel? |
| 04:09.19 | ScytheBlade1 | The linux kernel? |
| 04:09.26 | ScytheBlade1 | And even the Microsoft kernel? |
| 04:09.27 | levi | Write it in C. |
| 04:09.42 | levi | (because it's already there, and it would be too expensive to do otherwise) |
| 04:09.55 | levi | But, eventually, they should be replaced. |
| 04:10.12 | levi | My argument is for /new/ projects. |
| 04:10.16 | ScytheBlade1 | Ah |
| 04:10.33 | ScytheBlade1 | Yeah, that changes quite a bit, heh |
| 04:10.46 | levi | There's still a place for C, but it should be phased out a bit more aggressively than I think is happening. |
| 04:11.29 | levi | C is strongly associated with Linux and Open Source, so people get this idea that it's a good technical choice for any new project. |
| 04:11.52 | ScytheBlade1 | Well, then what do you think of the new MS .Net stuff? |
| 04:11.55 | mrpull-x | xbmodder_lappy: take a look at http://twistedmatrix.com/projects/core/documentation/examples/chatserver.py |
| 04:12.21 | *** join/#utah nick125_ (n=nick@dsl093-220-003.abq1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 04:12.22 | levi | I think it's a move in the right direction, though I would prefer it to be less tied to Microsoft. |
| 04:12.26 | mrpull-x | granted it isn't a full featured irc server, it could give you some ideads |
| 04:12.32 | mrpull-x | dang this keyboard... |
| 04:12.35 | mrpull-x | ideas |
| 04:12.51 | ScytheBlade1 | My problem with it is this: new person A learns .Net as his first language. Doesn't really matter which one, but let's say C# |
| 04:12.58 | levi | Microsoft is definitely doing research into fixing things, but it remains to be seen how much of that will actually enter their products. |
| 04:13.21 | ScytheBlade1 | Is that person *ever* going to learn what's happening /behind/ all of their API calls? |
| 04:13.58 | levi | If they are serious about programming, they will. |
| 04:14.37 | ScytheBlade1 | Compared to C - where they have to, and considering that MS has literally made building a GUI click and drag, tada you have an application you can sell.. |
| 04:14.44 | levi | I'm not advocating the removal of languages that provide low-level control of hardware. |
| 04:14.52 | ScytheBlade1 | That's what worries me about all of the managed languages, etc |
| 04:15.17 | levi | There are plenty of languages that can operate at the abstraction level of C, yet don't have many of its flaws. |
| 04:15.23 | levi | Ada is a good example there. |
| 04:15.23 | ScytheBlade1 | Fair enough. |
| 04:15.35 | ScytheBlade1 | I shall read your PDF once my system rebuilds :P |
| 04:16.00 | QBFreak | VB all the way! |
| 04:16.33 | nick125_ | lol |
| 04:16.43 | levi | VB is not what it used to be. |
| 04:16.56 | levi | It's now C# in new clothing, and has some very bright people working on it. |
| 04:16.57 | nick125_ | VB or VB.net (i think there are some different?) |
| 04:17.05 | QBFreak | VB6 is the last I used |
| 04:17.07 | levi | VB.net, I mean. |
| 04:17.13 | QBFreak | I've heard VB.net is a lot different |
| 04:17.19 | ScytheBlade1 | It's subtly different |
| 04:17.42 | QBFreak | I havn't done anything that scripting couldn't handle in a while now though |
| 04:17.46 | nick125_ | I have a VB.net book around here.. |
| 04:18.11 | levi | I think the dichotomy of 'scripting vs. real' languages is false and damaging. |
| 04:18.36 | maquis | vb still sucks |
| 04:18.50 | ScytheBlade1 | levi: write a paper on t hat :P |
| 04:18.56 | nick125_ | it still sucks yes.. |
| 04:18.59 | ScytheBlade1 | *that |
| 04:19.03 | QBFreak | most of what I've done has been batch files lately |
| 04:20.18 | QBFreak | levi: I can understand that |
| 04:20.59 | nick125_ | what would you consider a "real" language would be something you might write a paper on :p |
| 04:21.50 | levi | They're all real, as far as they've been defined. |
| 04:22.41 | nick125_ | exactly. |
| 04:25.55 | levi | It just irks me that people assume 'dynamic' languages can only be useful for scripting. |
| 04:26.23 | ScytheBlade1 | heh |
| 04:26.27 | ScytheBlade1 | Look what /. just posted |
| 04:26.28 | ScytheBlade1 | http://ask.slashdot.org/askslashdot/06/02/05/0119223.shtml |
| 04:26.54 | xbmodder_lappy | how come while (chi < strlen(x)-2) doesn't break when chi hits greater than strlen(x)-2 |
| 04:27.50 | nick125_ | xbmodder_lappy: pastebin the full source |
| 04:28.03 | levi | You can write managed code in C++ now, with MS tools. |
| 04:28.23 | levi | And the runtime penalty is not very high. |
| 04:29.13 | ScytheBlade1 | So, let's say that despite all of the advice I've been given not to do this, but I've chosen to write my own mail server |
| 04:29.30 | maquis | ScytheBlade1: in order to learn how it works? |
| 04:29.34 | ScytheBlade1 | aside from the 'take the day and read' response, what language would you personally recommend? |
| 04:29.49 | ScytheBlade1 | maquis, I know how it all works. I have a fair share of the IMAP protocol memorized ;) |
| 04:30.01 | maquis | ScytheBlade1: then, what's the general point for doing int? |
| 04:30.02 | maquis | er |
| 04:30.03 | maquis | it |
| 04:30.29 | ScytheBlade1 | Not to watch levi twitch, but to learn C in a rather dangerous and not easy manner. |
| 04:31.14 | levi | Well, C is a good language to know. It's just not a good language to build most real programs in. |
| 04:31.24 | ScytheBlade1 | It involves two main things that I'm interested in (at the low level): networking, and concurrency |
| 04:31.47 | nick125_ | it seems that its easier to make bugs in C code then such as..Python code.. |
| 04:32.12 | levi | If I was going to write a highly reliable networked concurrent program, I'd probably learn Erlang and use it. |
| 04:32.13 | ScytheBlade1 | So, for this case, say I knew nothing about e-mail in any form or protocol, but just wanted to write a server to teach me. What language would you pick to do that? |
| 04:32.38 | ScytheBlade1 | Erlang, eh |
| 04:32.49 | ScytheBlade1 | I have honestly never even heard of that |
| 04:32.56 | levi | Ericsson developed it to write firmware for their ATM routers. |
| 04:33.07 | ScytheBlade1 | Ah |
| 04:33.08 | levi | And it was very successful at its job. |
| 04:33.32 | levi | Apparently one of the popular jabber servers is written in erlang (ejabberd) if you want some code to look at. |
| 04:33.42 | ScytheBlade1 | Hey, that rings a bell now |
| 04:33.50 | ScytheBlade1 | (Although I stuck with jabberd2 in the end) |
| 04:34.15 | levi | There's also a blog of a guy named Joey Raymont (or Reymont, perhaps) who wrote an online poker server in erlang and chronicled his decision process. |
| 04:34.34 | levi | I read through a tutorial on it. |
| 04:34.42 | mrpull-x | geeeze... directv on the fritz again |
| 04:35.18 | levi | If you haven't been exposed to functional languages, it may cramp your brain. There's no mutable state, and there's an extremely high level of concurrency. |
| 04:36.08 | levi | Actually, there's a thing called mnesia or something that functions as a database, so you can have permanent, changeable state in your program, but I'm not sure how it works. Mutable state is not part of the language, though. |
| 04:37.19 | levi | Anyway, the ATM switch that's programmed in Erlang has some obscene number of 9s in its reliability rating. |
| 04:37.40 | ScytheBlade1 | I get a large portion of my viewpoints from a *windows* C/C++ programmer - who learned the non-managed stuff, and loved it all |
| 04:38.01 | ScytheBlade1 | Went from PHP to C - and was just awestruke |
| 04:38.26 | ScytheBlade1 | Likewise, he was introduced to threads very early on, and took to them like a fish to water. Quite unlike a huge number of *nix programmers |
| 04:38.46 | ScytheBlade1 | That's where I think a ton of things can change: it all depends on how you learn it from the beginning. |
| 04:39.07 | ScytheBlade1 | If you learn to avoid buffer overflows from the start, it magically isn't a problem for you. Sure, it'll happen, no one is perfect |
| 04:39.10 | levi | Unix programmers haven't jumped on threads because Unix has better ways of dealing with concurrency. :P |
| 04:39.39 | ScytheBlade1 | ? |
| 04:39.51 | mrpull-x | wow. that could be one of the first things i've heard levi say that I doubted |
| 04:40.05 | mrpull-x | levi: is forking really better than threading? |
| 04:40.19 | levi | For many things, yes. |
| 04:40.24 | ScytheBlade1 | As far as I know/knew |
| 04:40.33 | ScytheBlade1 | Unix has fork(), pthreads, and NPTL |
| 04:40.41 | ScytheBlade1 | (or whatever for the last one) |
| 04:40.58 | ScytheBlade1 | latter two are threading, first is rather self-explanatory |
| 04:41.39 | levi | Did you know that in Linux, a process and a pthread appear to be nearly identical in the OS process table? |
| 04:41.39 | nick125_ | oo fork...thats fun.. |
| 04:41.39 | ScytheBlade1 | Yup. |
| 04:41.39 | nick125_ | import os; while True: os.fork() |
| 04:41.39 | mrpull-x | levi: yes, but I thought that was a "defect" in linux |
| 04:41.40 | ScytheBlade1 | lol @ nick125_ |
| 04:41.40 | nick125_ | NO ONE RUN THAT CODE!! (its python) |
| 04:41.58 | levi | mrpull-x: Depends on the way you look at it. |
| 04:41.59 | maquis | nick125_: wazzat do? |
| 04:42.04 | ScytheBlade1 | nick125_, I have proper limits on my system :) |
| 04:42.05 | nick125_ | maquis: fork bomb |
| 04:42.09 | ScytheBlade1 | It'll lag it for a moment, then die |
| 04:42.22 | maquis | nick125_: is it something like :(){:&|:};: ? |
| 04:42.28 | ScytheBlade1 | maquis, yup |
| 04:42.29 | nick125_ | yup. except python |
| 04:42.29 | maquis | (i think i got that right) |
| 04:42.33 | levi | But anyway, in the traditional Unix sort of programming, you achieve concurrency through writing small apps and chaining them together through pipes. |
| 04:42.45 | levi | It's a very error-free sort of dataflow concurrency. |
| 04:42.49 | maquis | nick125_: cool |
| 04:43.09 | levi | It's not strictly as powerful as shared-state concurrency, but it's immune from race conditions and deadlock. |
| 04:43.23 | nick125_ | i did that twice on my box in less then 20 minutes (dont ask why) |
| 04:43.30 | maquis | wow... |
| 04:43.32 | maquis | that's impressive |
| 04:43.41 | mrpull-x | but is use of resources versus threads? |
| 04:43.43 | levi | Of course, since it's not strictly as powerful, threads did eventually get implemented, but they're contrary to the 'Unix way'. |
| 04:43.54 | maquis | i ran the bash one once on my server to find out how fast it would bring it down |
| 04:43.59 | maquis | i was quite impressed |
| 04:44.08 | nick125_ | i was in another channel calling myself a dumb****, 30 seconds later, a guy ping times out, then he comes back in "im so f**king stupid"...yeah |
| 04:44.11 | ScytheBlade1 | At your hardware, or the lack thereof? ;) |
| 04:44.41 | mrpull-x | s/its/is/ |
| 04:44.52 | maquis | ScytheBlade1: at the fact that my system was unresponsive in like 10 seconds |
| 04:45.00 | ScytheBlade1 | maquis, hehe |
| 04:45.05 | ScytheBlade1 | Where did that go.. |
| 04:45.28 | nick125_ | ScytheBlade1: that will happen in most boxes without limits on it |
| 04:45.35 | ScytheBlade1 | nick125_, yup, I know |
| 04:45.43 | nick125_ | hardware wont do much good :D |
| 04:45.56 | ScytheBlade1 | It did on my former box |
| 04:46.01 | ScytheBlade1 | Dual CPU with 4GB of RAM |
| 04:46.09 | nick125_ | nice.. |
| 04:46.14 | ScytheBlade1 | That little bash script took about three minutes to kill my system |
| 04:46.42 | levi | There are several theoretical models of concurrency that can be implemented and the shared-state concurrency model (which pthreads implement) is the most error-prone. Message-passing concurrency (which Erlang uses) is just as powerful, but does not allow for race conditions. |
| 04:46.44 | ScytheBlade1 | maquis, take a look at /etc/limits. It's a very nice file :) |
| 04:47.25 | maquis | :) |
| 04:47.43 | ScytheBlade1 | Hence my immunity to fork bombs.. sure they hit, but they end quickly. |
| 04:47.55 | levi | Using shared-state concurrency makes programs extremely hard to reason about, and getting programs that are both correct and performant with it is very tricky. |
| 04:47.57 | ScytheBlade1 | Oh, and I also run 4K stacks, which helps |
| 04:48.17 | nick125_ | i wonder how hard it would be to write a IRC bot (or part of one) in C.. |
| 04:48.28 | ScytheBlade1 | heh |
| 04:48.36 | levi | nick125_: Harder than it's worth |
| 04:48.40 | ScytheBlade1 | I can just see you twitching, levi, haha |
| 04:48.47 | nick125_ | lol |
| 04:49.22 | QBFreak | multiple connections and everything, it was fun |
| 04:49.54 | QBFreak | that was definitly a few years ago :) |
| 04:50.00 | ScytheBlade1 | I'd hope so. |
| 04:50.09 | tensai | simple web servers are surprisingly easy to code. at least I was surprised when I wrote one in perl. |
| 04:50.19 | QBFreak | yeah, the basics are pretty easy |
| 04:50.42 | maquis | tensai: the new cs360 class is writing a web-server... |
| 04:51.11 | levi | Didn't it used to be a web crawler? |
| 04:51.29 | ScytheBlade1 | The protocol is really simple |
| 04:51.36 | ScytheBlade1 | Handling everything possible is another story |
| 04:51.38 | tensai | web server was for 460. web crawler was in 240. |
| 04:51.46 | QBFreak | I had a MARE (type of MUD engine) bot in VB too, but I found it easier to code in a MU* client scripting language |
| 04:52.01 | dna3e8 | ~ibot bot |
| 04:52.03 | ibot | I ain't no stinkin' bot. I am a finely tuned and hand crafted tool. Oh wait... I guess I am a bot (that you should not abuse). |
| 04:52.09 | maquis | levi: that's 240 |
| 04:52.22 | levi | Ahh, what's 360? |
| 04:52.52 | maquis | it's a new class |
| 04:53.17 | levi | What does it cover? |
| 04:53.17 | maquis | it's not required yet, but apparently will be very soon |
| 04:53.22 | maquis | it's called "Internet Programming" |
| 04:53.25 | ScytheBlade1 | Which school is this? |
| 04:53.28 | maquis | so, they build a webserver, and some other stuff |
| 04:53.31 | maquis | ScytheBlade1: byu |
| 04:53.44 | ScytheBlade1 | Seeing as I'm in my second semester of HS as a senior, I'm looking into this now. |
| 04:53.50 | ScytheBlade1 | Ah, heh. BYU is out. |
| 04:54.18 | levi | UVSC has an excellent C++ teacher. |
| 04:54.29 | mrpull-x | levi: Alison? |
| 04:54.38 | levi | mrpull-x: Yup. |
| 04:54.51 | mrpull-x | i took a class from him. he is a stud. |
| 04:55.02 | levi | He also teaches comp theory and some other good stuff. |
| 04:55.15 | mrpull-x | i learned more about c that semester than i had in my whole life |
| 04:55.38 | levi | I've only had him for a Design Patterns class, but he did a lot of the example programs in C++. |
| 04:55.43 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm looking for a (local) school that will A) let me in on a sub-3.0 GPA (but rather decent ACT), B) Give me a massive scholarship, as I have near no money, and C) has an amazing technology/computers department |
| 04:55.54 | ScytheBlade1 | Although the lack of money thing is the most limiting :P |
| 04:56.11 | levi | Well, UVSC isn't a bad choice by those criteria. |
| 04:56.14 | maquis | ScytheBlade1: byu's one of the less expensive universities.... |
| 04:56.36 | levi | maquis: BYU is also hard to get in to. |
| 04:56.46 | ScytheBlade1 | maquis, with my amazing 2.7 GPA and my 27 ACT, I also have about a 2% chance of admittance, and 0 chance of scholarship, as they start at 28 ACT for scholarships |
| 04:57.42 | dna3e8 | is SSU local |
| 04:58.03 | ScytheBlade1 | As it stands, Snow will give me a full ride, so I'm debating taking that (two-year school) and doing all of the generals, and then transfering up to the U |
| 04:58.09 | ScytheBlade1 | Either Snow or Dixie |
| 04:58.18 | ScytheBlade1 | (Due to scholarships/cost requirement) |
| 04:58.36 | levi | That'd work fine, though it's nice to have some easy generals to dilute a CS-heavy load in the later years. |
| 04:58.53 | ScytheBlade1 | You drive a hard bargain |
| 04:59.07 | levi | At BYU, taking too many CS classes at once was a recipe for disaster. |
| 04:59.26 | levi | I'm not sure what the assignment load is like at the U, though. |
| 04:59.26 | ScytheBlade1 | I just find that I slack in the generals, and while I'm perfectly capable of doing them, I just don't... but in turn, excel in things that interest me |
| 04:59.39 | levi | I've heard USU's CS program is decent. |
| 05:01.06 | levi | I'm kinda floating through my CS classes at UVSC. I don't know if it's my experience level or what, but they're just not very difficult. Which is good, because I don't have a lot of time to spend on them. |
| 05:01.09 | maquis | 2 cs classes / semester seems to be pretty good |
| 05:01.26 | maquis | i don't think i could handle anything more than that |
| 05:01.29 | levi | maquis: Dan was killing himself last semester. It was totally nuts. |
| 05:01.42 | maquis | however, i don't recommend saving all your GEs for your senior year |
| 05:01.49 | maquis | levi: yeah... |
| 05:02.02 | maquis | he's in something right after my networking class this semester. |
| 05:02.18 | maquis | i was talking to him one day this week |
| 05:02.34 | levi | The fact that he pulled it off shows that he's definitely taking school more seriously than he was back when we were there together. :) |
| 05:03.29 | ScytheBlade1 | Oddly enough, the other school that I'm considering is Westminster. They'll let me in, and I may/may not be able to pull a full ride with them on merit |
| 05:03.44 | maquis | levi: haha |
| 05:03.57 | ScytheBlade1 | (There aren't many 2.7 GPA high school slackers who have done back-end PHP and SQL for Zions Bank) |
| 05:04.37 | maquis | ScytheBlade1: you don't seem like the type of kid that would get a 2.7... |
| 05:04.46 | ScytheBlade1 | maquis, oh? and why is that? |
| 05:05.00 | maquis | ScytheBlade1: you don't seem like a slacker |
| 05:05.04 | maquis | but i could be completely wrong |
| 05:05.24 | levi | He hangs out on IRC all the time. Of course he's a slacker. ;) |
| 05:05.30 | ScytheBlade1 | maquis, in a sense I am, and in a sense I'm not. I just plain and simple don't do work that doesn't interest me.... especially repetitve work |
| 05:05.38 | maquis | hey! i resemble that statmenet |
| 05:05.43 | ScytheBlade1 | 555M/home/kyle/.xchat2/xchatlogs/ |
| 05:05.48 | ScytheBlade1 | Yeah, levi has a point :) |
| 05:06.08 | maquis | ScytheBlade1: one of the things i've found that's hardest about college is that occasionally you have to do stuff that doesn't interest you |
| 05:06.14 | maquis | tensai: NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!1 |
| 05:06.17 | QBFreak | gah, thats the second time I've put two discs in my drive at the same time |
| 05:06.21 | QBFreak | sounds horrible |
| 05:06.37 | maquis | QBFreak: that's the type of thing that ends up on rinkworks.com/stupid! |
| 05:06.46 | tensai | maquis: no kidding. like I really cared to take chem 105. |
| 05:06.49 | ScytheBlade1 | maquis, and in all honesty, that's what I'm looking forward to doing most. Actually doing something I don't want to. High school? You can do jack nothing and pull a 3.7 (yes, 3.7) |
| 05:07.01 | maquis | tensai: like i really care about chem 105 this semester.... |
| 05:07.13 | tensai | C- all the way, baby |
| 05:07.31 | maquis | ScytheBlade1: well... if you're looking forward to doing it, why don't you start while you're in high school? |
| 05:08.02 | ScytheBlade1 | maquis, I've asked myself that a fair amount ;) |
| 05:08.04 | maquis | tensai: i'm hoping for better than that, but we'll see in a week when i get this test back |
| 05:08.17 | maquis | ScytheBlade1: if you're not doing it in high school, you won't do it in college |
| 05:08.23 | tensai | I think I ended up with a B- from that particular one |
| 05:08.57 | ScytheBlade1 | It's more of a mental block thing than anything else at this point |
| 05:09.35 | ScytheBlade1 | When I can pull 2.7 grades and... get full scholarship to two smaller schools, and westminster.. |
| 05:09.55 | maquis | ScytheBlade1: or you could do better, and get full scholarship elsewhere |
| 05:10.18 | ScytheBlade1 | maquis, and that's the one thing that I've really regretted. However, I closed that option off as of 9th grade. |
| 05:10.31 | ScytheBlade1 | Hindsight, sure, but in this case? That really is that |
| 05:10.45 | levi | ScytheBlade1: I got great grades in HS without doing a lick of work. BYU /recruited/ me. I got a half-tuition scholarship. Then I crashed and burned, HARD. |
| 05:11.57 | levi | (by recruited, I mean that after I sent them my SAT score, they sent me a t-shirt and a letter saying they really wanted me to apply) |
| 05:12.03 | ScytheBlade1 | I've gone all of my life without doing basically any work, and yeah, you know, it's horribly likely that I'm headed right for crash and burn |
| 05:12.07 | ScytheBlade1 | Heh, what was your SAT? |
| 05:12.16 | levi | 1330, I think. |
| 05:12.19 | ScytheBlade1 | That'd do it |
| 05:12.36 | ScytheBlade1 | I only took the ACT twice, and I had... unique results comparatively |
| 05:12.45 | maquis | levi: i had the same experience |
| 05:12.52 | levi | Amusingly enough, my verbal score was higher than my math score. |
| 05:13.03 | ScytheBlade1 | The second time through, the scores flip-flopped, some by five points |
| 05:13.04 | levi | I had the old SAT, too. |
| 05:13.21 | maquis | out of all my close friends in hs, i was the only one < 1500 :( |
| 05:13.27 | levi | maquis: Yow. |
| 05:13.30 | maquis | a couple of my friends were 1600 |
| 05:13.36 | maquis | and a bunch of others were 1590 |
| 05:13.39 | ScytheBlade1 | I have a 1590 friend |
| 05:13.43 | ScytheBlade1 | Ticked him off being so close to 1600 |
| 05:13.58 | levi | There must be some serious inflation in SAT scores. |
| 05:14.01 | maquis | i think 1590 would seriously be the most annoying score possible |
| 05:14.08 | maquis | levi: my school was a bit different |
| 05:14.33 | maquis | most of my friends also took (and passed) > 6 SAT tests |
| 05:14.34 | ScytheBlade1 | Although I do think levi had a very good point ;) |
| 05:14.35 | maquis | er |
| 05:14.36 | maquis | AP tests |
| 05:14.39 | ScytheBlade1 | sh: /home/kyle/.xchat2/xchatlogs/: is a directory |
| 05:14.40 | ScytheBlade1 | erm |
| 05:14.44 | ScytheBlade1 | 555M/home/kyle/.xchat2/xchatlogs/ |
| 05:14.47 | ScytheBlade1 | There we go |
| 05:14.58 | levi | I had a friend who got 800 on the math section, but I don't think anyone in the entire school had a 1600. |
| 05:14.59 | ScytheBlade1 | 555MB of raw text logs? ;D |
| 05:16.39 | ScytheBlade1 | Though, the only school that is actively trying to recruit me is Westminster. Only reason I wouldn't, is I really dislike forking out $20k a year. Especially when I have... oh right, nothing |
| 05:18.00 | levi | Hmm, apparently there's a new new SAT now. |
| 05:18.11 | ScytheBlade1 | Hence my sudden liking of Snow saying, "we'll pay you to come here" |
| 05:18.26 | levi | The SAT was recentered in 1995. |
| 05:19.47 | QBFreak | I hope I didn't break my burner |
| 05:19.48 | maquis | think so |
| 05:20.01 | QBFreak | it seems to read discs fine, but I'm trying to burn an image and it doesn't appear to be going well |
| 05:20.23 | maquis | no wait |
| 05:20.23 | maquis | no |
| 05:20.32 | QBFreak | oh no |
| 05:20.35 | QBFreak | its the source drive |
| 05:20.46 | maquis | my first time taking it was... ummm... 1996? |
| 05:20.47 | QBFreak | HDD going click click click |
| 05:22.12 | levi | From Wikipedia: Mensa used to accept individuals who scored a 1300+ on the SAT prior to 30 September 1974, and 1250+ on tests up to January 31, 1994. After the test was recentered in 1995, Mensa decided that SAT scores were no longer an effective measure of intelligence and high scores are no longer accepted. |
| 05:22.56 | ScytheBlade1 | Heh, I never knew that |
| 05:23.10 | ScytheBlade1 | Sure, I was eight at the time, but hey |
| 05:23.21 | levi | So, for a brief time, I could have been admitted to Mensa based on my SAT scores. |
| 05:24.55 | ScytheBlade1 | Huh |
| 05:24.59 | ScytheBlade1 | Basic addition in kcalc |
| 05:25.00 | ScytheBlade1 | Copy |
| 05:25.04 | ScytheBlade1 | and look what pastes: 1292.000000000000000333066907387546962127 |
| 05:25.16 | ScytheBlade1 | (Note that only whole numbers were used) |
| 05:25.37 | levi | Must convert to floating point when you copy. |
| 05:26.04 | ScytheBlade1 | It's never done that before, though, which is the problem |
| 05:26.12 | ScytheBlade1 | I have this suspicion that my other CPU is largely dead |
| 05:26.48 | ScytheBlade1 | 153C was never good for hardware :P |
| 05:27.38 | QBFreak | its just a burn in test |
| 05:27.46 | QBFreak | complete with smoke... |
| 05:28.10 | ScytheBlade1 | :( |
| 05:28.41 | QBFreak | if its any consolation my external HDD is dying |
| 05:28.49 | ScytheBlade1 | Heh |
| 05:29.08 | ScytheBlade1 | If it's any consolation to you, I had a CPU die, two HDs, all forms of USB, and 1GB of RAM die within the past day |
| 05:29.14 | ScytheBlade1 | ;) |
| 05:29.21 | QBFreak | which has the cd image on it I need to burn to replace the duds the stupid Rimage created |
| 05:33.38 | tensai | http://www.salfordadvertiser.co.uk/news/s/208/208902_dishing_up_the_dirt.html |
| 05:35.05 | tensai | brac: are you awake or what? |
| 05:35.05 | brac | *shrug* |
| 05:35.05 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 05:35.07 | ScytheBlade1 | That's good |
| 05:35.21 | levi | Hmm, my SAT score would have been slightly higher on the recentered scale that was used post-1995, I think. I don't recall what my math/verbal scores were, though. |
| 05:39.22 | dna3e8 | any fortran programmers out there....? |
| 05:41.22 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 05:41.40 | dna3e8 | ~ibot stay |
| 05:41.44 | ibot | woof |
| 05:41.55 | dna3e8 | ~ibot go |
| 05:42.10 | ScytheBlade1 | Ack. Dishwasher is still running, which means I get to wait another 30 minutes before I shower. |
| 05:42.24 | levi | Apparently all my old school records and stuff are still in my parents' files. |
| 05:43.09 | ScytheBlade1 | Heh. To date, my parents tell me that they've never seen a report card. |
| 05:43.25 | ScytheBlade1 | While I know that's not true (they've seen three), they've never kept one |
| 05:53.45 | levi | Great, the server most of my email goes through has a mail configuration problem. |
| 05:55.52 | levi | I knew something was fishy when I didn't get any email today. |
| 06:00.55 | ScytheBlade1 | Anyone interested in buying an AMD Sempron FX 2800+? (Socket 754, 64-bit) |
| 06:08.26 | *** join/#utah mheath (n=mheath@c-24-2-81-30.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 06:25.58 | QBFreak | AHG I did not want SRPMs |
| 06:27.05 | QBFreak | now its gonna be another half an hour... *sigh* |
| 06:27.16 | nick125_ | any suggestions for the UI? |
| 06:27.24 | mheath | nick125_: doesn't gecko necesitate the usage of chrome? |
| 06:27.24 | nick125_ | (the layout of it_ |
| 06:28.07 | nick125_ | i would think it would |
| 06:28.52 | nick125_ | im looking to build a small browser thats easy to use..nothing big like firefox |
| 06:28.53 | mheath | Use a chrome theme, then? |
| 06:30.24 | nick125_ | mmm |
| 06:30.34 | mheath | ~praise Wendy's |
| 06:30.36 | ibot | All hail Wendy's! |
| 06:30.40 | mheath | ~praise Frosty |
| 06:30.42 | ibot | All hail Frosty! |
| 06:31.07 | nick125_ | i have no clue how to do that in gtkmozembed...the documentation sucks for it ^_^ |
| 06:31.47 | mheath | Make a vanilla GTK theme for it, then. |
| 06:32.09 | mheath | Thats always irriated me about traditional GUI toolkits... |
| 06:32.16 | nick125_ | but, what about the layout? (least default...lets not go there though) |
| 06:32.36 | mheath | I'm saying, just use a GTK menubar and Toolbar |
| 06:32.38 | QBFreak | woah nice, video of a guy continuing running after the cops pitted him three times |
| 06:32.45 | QBFreak | (car chase) |
| 06:33.13 | nick125_ | mheath: hmm..well, i better get to the drawing board |
| 06:33.46 | nick125_ | im thinking, by default, the menubar is hidden |
| 06:33.56 | mheath | O.o |
| 06:34.06 | nick125_ | so it would be like this.. |
| 06:35.25 | mheath | Seperates the GUI from the program, for Java (or, theoretically, any other language, though the current implementation just supports Java) |
| 06:35.42 | nick125_ | after the title bar and before the actual content (the button not in this exact order): |
| 06:35.45 | nick125_ | | ( BACK ) ( FORWARD) ( STOP ) [ Address bar ] [ Google ] | |
| 06:36.50 | mheath | In a traditional situation, you have two files: The interface file and the program file (program being a java class) |
| 06:36.52 | mheath | nick125_: sounds good |
| 06:37.01 | nick125_ | it would be nice if there was a UI toolkit that you can easely skin |
| 06:37.13 | mheath | nick125_: ...... |
| 06:37.23 | mheath | Chrome. |
| 06:37.26 | mheath | Or the thing I'm working on |
| 06:37.35 | nick125_ | that had wrappers in python and was somewhat documented of course |
| 06:37.51 | mheath | Chrome. |
| 06:38.06 | mheath | with my system, the file is XML based |
| 06:38.09 | mheath | entries like: |
| 06:38.29 | nick125_ | the lack of documentation in gtkmozembed is sad. |
| 06:39.04 | mheath | <button onclick="instance.controllerClass.buttonFiveClicked" text="A Button!" /> |
| 06:39.38 | nick125_ | maybe somewhat like glade? |
| 06:39.38 | mheath | That would call buttonFiveClicked(Event) of the class controllerClass everytime the button is clicked |
| 06:40.10 | mheath | You can take it a step further by including an "id" attribute |
| 06:40.26 | mheath | <button id="button1" onclick="instance.controllerClass.buttonFiveClicked" text="A Button!" /> |
| 06:41.08 | mheath | Then, "org.hcp.jeg.getObjectByID("button1").setText("Some new text!")" |
| 06:41.21 | mheath | nick125_: In some respects |
| 06:41.34 | mheath | but, I can also package my GUI for distribution |
| 06:41.38 | nick125_ | thats what it looked like when you posted that example... |
| 06:41.48 | mheath | I can, via an HTTP server, distribute just my GUI file |
| 06:42.03 | mheath | My interpreter will read some information added when you package it for distribution.... |
| 06:42.22 | nick125_ | so you do the main programming in the XML file? |
| 06:42.26 | mheath | and suddenly instance.controllerClass.buttonFiveClicked is a network call, not a local one |
| 06:42.32 | nick125_ | nice |
| 06:42.44 | mheath | nick125_: No, the XML file *just* defines the GUI and how to interact with a controller class |
| 06:43.10 | nick125_ | what kind of protocol would it use to do network calls? HTTP? |
| 06:43.12 | mheath | But its setup in a way to be entirely distributable, and able to be partially seperated from the controlling class in any number of ways (in this example, seperated by the network) |
| 06:44.01 | mheath | nick125_: The current implementation just supports java, though its exapandable to any language. It does Java RMI. |
| 06:45.09 | mheath | You can obtain the GUI through HTTP, or NFS, or FTP, or e-mail, or....... |
| 06:45.28 | mheath | and, with my interpreter application, it will link up with a remote server |
| 06:46.01 | mheath | This is the foundation technology of a much larger project I'm working on |
| 06:46.30 | mheath | LiteTablets. Tablet PCs that are minimal, and designed to use network-attached resources (on a powerful server) to expand their resources and computational abilities |
| 06:46.50 | mheath | On the LiteTablet is a limited JRE, runnign ontop of a trimmed down Linux kernel |
| 06:47.41 | mheath | The JRE, on startup, creates a 'blank' but existant GUI using this |
| 06:48.06 | mheath | I told you, remember, that the GUI was maniputable by the controlling class by the use of IDs |
| 06:48.34 | mheath | The controlling class, by using some default (but blank) named IDs, defines the entire GUI |
| 06:48.45 | mheath | The controlling class is running on the server |
| 06:48.54 | nick125_ | cool |
| 06:49.36 | nick125_ | these are kind of something like LTSP except more "embedded"? |
| 06:50.03 | mheath | LTSP? |
| 06:50.18 | nick125_ | linux terminal server project |
| 06:50.22 | nick125_ | http://www.ltsp.org/ |
| 06:50.24 | brac | [Linux Terminal Server Project] |
| 06:50.47 | mheath | Kind of. Though these are a hardware product, too. |
| 06:51.23 | mheath | They have very limited capabilites, to cut drastically down on cost. Little RAM, slow processors. |
| 06:51.57 | mheath | Their software can *only* show a GUI provided by the server that interacts with a controlling class provided by the server. |
| 06:52.10 | mheath | *controlling class running on the server |
| 06:52.54 | mheath | (though it might include a few other, limited capabilities for when you're out of the range of a WAP) |
| 06:53.14 | mheath | These are text-book-sized (but thinner), handheld, wireless tablets. |
| 06:54.45 | mheath | The idea is to cut back on the costs to the point where it would be cheaper for a public school to purchase one of these for every student than to equip several labs with expensive desktop computers. |
| 06:55.07 | mheath | A couple thousand of these + a couple $10,000 servers and you're good to go |
| 06:55.23 | mheath | Plus, you shouldn't have to upgrade them for years as its mainly the servers capabilities that need to be upgraded |
| 06:55.47 | nick125_ | would a standard WiFi link have enough bandwidth to handle thousands of users at a time? |
| 06:57.47 | mheath | nick125_: For concentrated areas like schools, no. It would take some specialized/high load WiFi equipment. Multiple WAPs, etc. |
| 06:58.18 | nick125_ | how much b/w does each device need? |
| 06:58.55 | mheath | Very little, in most cases. |
| 06:59.10 | mheath | For simple GUIs, the data sent back and forth would just be text strings like: |
| 06:59.18 | nick125_ | would it be communicating over TCP or UDP or something else? |
| 06:59.40 | mheath | UPDATE frame1.panel2.button1.text "some new button text" |
| 06:59.59 | mheath | nick125_: TCP |
| 07:00.35 | mheath | Obviously, for more complex streamed GUI elements like video or 3d graphics, it would take considerably more bandwidth. |
| 07:01.01 | mheath | The cheaper tablets aren't designed for 3d graphics, really |
| 07:01.14 | mheath | Though I'd release a gaming variation with more local resources |
| 07:03.06 | mheath | nick125_: The bottom line is, that for any given tablet, the worst case scenario is it takes enough bandwidth for a simple low-traffic text steam, and an audio+video stream. |
| 07:20.46 | QBFreak | bah, how do I keep FC4 from starting the GUI if every time it does it locks up |
| 07:23.01 | QBFreak | if I could get it to last long enough to get to a shell I could edit the inittab |
| 07:23.28 | nick125_ | couldnt you press f2 or something? :/ |
| 07:23.36 | QBFreak | where abouts? |
| 07:24.09 | nick125_ | or, at the grub console, try this ( i think this might work, havent tried it ): |
| 07:24.45 | nick125_ | add init=/bin/bash to the end of the boot command, and remove any other init entry |
| 07:25.07 | nick125_ | then mount /, edit what you need to, unmount /, reboot |
| 07:27.41 | QBFreak | hmm, apparently it mounts / as readonly by default |
| 07:28.39 | nick125_ | yeah..you need to mount it readwrite.. |
| 07:28.43 | QBFreak | is it a bad idea to change that in the kernel args? |
| 07:29.10 | QBFreak | not entirely sure how, I unmounted it but when I tried to mount it again it said it was already mounted |
| 07:30.12 | nick125_ | mount -o remount,rw / |
| 07:30.25 | nick125_ | (got that from the gentoo-wiki article for booting into single user mode) |
| 07:31.19 | QBFreak | nks! |
| 07:31.31 | QBFreak | err KVM cut me off, started typing too soon |
| 07:31.33 | QBFreak | thanks :) |
| 07:31.40 | nick125_ | sure |
| 07:32.18 | QBFreak | I didn't intend to run X at all, but apparently it got installed :) |
| 07:32.30 | nick125_ | lol |
| 07:33.33 | QBFreak | I was running RH7.3 on mine, someone suggested Debian, installed it but I havn't done much beyond getting apache up |
| 07:34.31 | QBFreak | this is for a CD duplicator I upgraded, using FC4 because RedHat did their own DVD stuff for cdrecord |
| 07:34.42 | QBFreak | no license fee for commercial use :) |
| 07:35.11 | nick125_ | lol |
| 07:35.19 | nick125_ | cd duplicator? |
| 07:35.47 | QBFreak | http://qbfreak.net/images/100_1776.mov (4+MB) |
| 07:35.59 | nick125_ | does it have sound (i hope not :/) |
| 07:36.04 | QBFreak | a little |
| 07:36.12 | nick125_ | this stupid sound card in this box doesnt like linux :( |
| 07:36.22 | QBFreak | I can look and see if I've got an stills of it |
| 07:36.42 | nick125_ | im gonna go down tomorrow (i hope) and get an creative audigy |
| 07:38.05 | QBFreak | ack, in the past I could copy a file to the device but now its asking me if I want to overwrite it |
| 07:38.13 | QBFreak | (ttyS0) |
| 07:38.51 | nick125_ | wow thats nice |
| 07:39.03 | QBFreak | ah, watched it anyway? :) |
| 07:39.08 | nick125_ | 1) what do you use it for? 2) how much did that cost? |
| 07:39.10 | nick125_ | yup |
| 07:39.20 | QBFreak | well, that one I fixed up for my last place of employment |
| 07:39.32 | QBFreak | it has three drives, mine has two, I bought it from them for $25 |
| 07:39.49 | QBFreak | it used to be a very expensive CD duplicator, but they do mostly DVDs now |
| 07:40.15 | QBFreak | mine was running win 3.11 headless, 2 4x SCSI CD burners |
| 07:40.22 | QBFreak | I think it was a 486 |
| 07:40.37 | QBFreak | I put a PII in it and DVD burners |
| 07:40.49 | nick125_ | but, what do you use it for? |
| 07:41.10 | QBFreak | at the moment, not much :) I intended to do disc duplication services |
| 07:41.30 | nick125_ | aah..nice |
| 07:41.40 | QBFreak | someone was asking me about that the other night, so I figured I'd better make sure it's up and running :) |
| 07:41.57 | QBFreak | I wrote some scripts for it when I did the one for where I was working at the time |
| 07:42.35 | nick125_ | if i had one of those, i would write like a really neat web interface for it using Python and Python CGI |
| 07:42.51 | nick125_ | to control jobs and such |
| 07:43.00 | QBFreak | I had hacked something to integrate it with TWiki, but I need to start over with that |
| 07:43.54 | nick125_ | or, better yet, make a small pygame application with a few buttons and add a touchscreen LCD to that... |
| 07:44.24 | QBFreak | actually, mine has a 14 button keypad and a 2x16 LCD |
| 07:44.43 | nick125_ | i woudl write something custom....i wouldnt know how to control the robotic arm though |
| 07:44.44 | QBFreak | gonna put the LCD on the parallel port, not sure how to handle the buttons easilly |
| 07:45.04 | QBFreak | serial port, single upper-case character |
| 07:45.21 | nick125_ | do you have some output from the keypad? |
| 07:45.32 | QBFreak | its not attached to anything |
| 07:45.36 | QBFreak | but you just gave me an idea |
| 07:45.46 | QBFreak | pull the keyboard controller out of an old keyboard :) |
| 07:46.21 | nick125_ | took bad making the actual robotic arm would be too difficult :/ |
| 07:46.42 | QBFreak | yeah, doing my own from scratch would most likely not be worth it :) |
| 07:46.52 | QBFreak | when you can buy one for a few K |
| 07:47.04 | nick125_ | it would be nice to have one of those, with a python CGI interface, and a touchscreen..that woudl be like...sweet |
| 07:47.10 | QBFreak | hehe |
| 07:47.57 | nick125_ | im bored. i really need something cool to do |
| 07:52.49 | nick125_ | any ideas? |
| 07:53.15 | QBFreak | clean my room up? |
| 07:53.23 | nick125_ | nooooooooooooooooo |
| 07:53.30 | QBFreak | but I can't even find my closet! |
| 07:53.52 | nick125_ | lol |
| 07:54.26 | nick125_ | i got 3 feet of computer junk infront of my closet door |
| 07:54.40 | QBFreak | sounds about right |
| 07:54.58 | nick125_ | and a 5 foot stack of computers right next to my bed |
| 07:54.59 | QBFreak | except the pile started blocking the dresser and now there are clothes on top |
| 07:55.08 | QBFreak | nice |
| 07:55.18 | nick125_ | right next to this monitor :D |
| 07:55.21 | QBFreak | I managed to weed out the 486s at least |
| 07:55.37 | nick125_ | i got about 5 soda cans on my desk |
| 07:56.13 | nick125_ | lol |
| 07:56.26 | nick125_ | 486 is pretty....old to say the least |
| 07:56.53 | QBFreak | I got most of my stuff because no one else wanted it :) |
| 07:57.00 | nick125_ | same... |
| 07:57.15 | nick125_ | i weeded out everything below 150mhz :p |
| 07:57.24 | QBFreak | thats like all but two systems... |
| 07:57.40 | nick125_ | i got about..*counts* |
| 07:57.43 | QBFreak | I've really only got one that isn't running, three that are |
| 07:58.03 | nick125_ | 5 CRT monitors, 1 15", and 4 17" |
| 07:58.14 | nick125_ | that arent plugged in :p |
| 07:58.18 | QBFreak | desktop at something like 2.8Ghz, server at 500Mhz and duper at somewhere near 300Mhz |
| 07:58.28 | nick125_ | nice |
| 07:58.31 | QBFreak | most of my spares have been passed on or have passed on :) |
| 07:59.03 | QBFreak | gave the last 15" to my sister when her monitor bit the dust |
| 07:59.09 | nick125_ | my main box is 2.8ghz, this box is 2.6ghz, my lappys 1.2ghz, servers 2.6ghz, firewall is 300mhz |
| 07:59.20 | QBFreak | all I've got are a 19" and 17", both on the main desktop |
| 07:59.44 | QBFreak | my poor laptop is 166Mhz |
| 07:59.51 | nick125_ | i want to setup a dual head on my main box |
| 07:59.53 | QBFreak | got a 386 laptop too |
| 07:59.57 | nick125_ | nice |
| 08:00.01 | QBFreak | dual head is nice :) |
| 08:00.21 | nick125_ | my poor lappy is still running windows xp because i think im too lazy to put gentoo on it |
| 08:00.41 | QBFreak | thats what I run on my desktop, havn't gotten myself off windows for every day use yet :) |
| 08:00.48 | nick125_ | synergy is nice..i got this box monitor and my lappy sitting next to each other and i can use this monitor for both of them |
| 08:00.57 | QBFreak | yeah, its pretty cool |
| 08:01.15 | *** join/#utah nick125_lappy (n=nick125@dsl093-220-003.abq1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 08:01.19 | nick125_lappy | :D |
| 08:02.47 | nick125_ | i got alot of irc nicks.. |
| 08:03.02 | nick125_ | i got way too many things to IRC from |
| 08:03.12 | *** join/#utah nick125-treo (n=ptpChat@m410e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 08:03.34 | nick125_ | now only if synergy worked on my treo |
| 08:06.49 | QBFreak | I really need to finish the breakout box for the duper connectors, it'd be nice to have things like HDD indicator |
| 08:06.59 | nick125_ | yeah.. |
| 08:07.10 | QBFreak | the case wasn't designed to have external access to the PC inside |
| 08:07.29 | nick125_ | i need something cool to do |
| 08:07.33 | QBFreak | but I managed to squeeze everything I needed into a 50-pin SCSI cable, there was a hole for a SCSI connector on the back |
| 08:08.16 | QBFreak | you could sleep for me so I'd quit wasting time on it :) |
| 08:08.26 | nick125_ | LOL |
| 08:08.38 | nick125_ | i wish we could pay people to do it for us |
| 08:08.44 | QBFreak | I should be in bed now... |
| 08:08.50 | nick125_ | me too |
| 08:08.52 | nick125_ | what time is it there? |
| 08:09.29 | QBFreak | being jobless Iv'e been up as late as 8 and 9 some mornings |
| 08:09.41 | nick125_ | hehe i love doing that |
| 08:09.53 | QBFreak | I'm more productive if I get up earlier |
| 08:10.14 | QBFreak | but its a lot easier to stay up late :) |
| 08:10.32 | nick125_ | i notice that some days, when i stay up late, when i do get up, im more productive |
| 08:11.11 | nick125_ | trying to go to bed early is just a waste of time :D |
| 08:15.46 | QBFreak | mmm food |
| 08:15.54 | QBFreak | I keep forgetting to eat |
| 08:16.00 | nick125_ | lol |
| 08:17.41 | xbmodder_lappy | heh |
| 08:21.18 | nick125_ | forgetting to sleep is common here ^_^ |
| 08:27.34 | xbmodder_lappy | forgetting to eat is not... |
| 08:32.56 | xbmodder_lappy | i wish the owel outside would shut up. |
| 09:20.03 | QBFreak | arg, cpan is taking its own sweet time |
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| 17:58.40 | xbmodder_lappy | hey |
| 17:59.27 | mheath | Hey |
| 17:59.32 | mheath | Bah, I have to work today |
| 17:59.37 | mheath | No ones going to be at work. |
| 18:13.08 | mheath | GMail gave me dozens of e-mails that, according to the headers, were supposed to go to someone else. |
| 19:08.19 | mrpull | mheath: nice. anything juicy or just spam? |
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| 19:38.33 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
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| 20:40.44 | xbmodder_lappy | hi |
| 20:40.45 | xbmodder_lappy | go |
| 20:43.49 | QBFreak | xbmodder_lappy: I can get thermal printing done, but its gonna be $0.75/disc (that includes the disc) |
| 20:45.13 | QBFreak | its also not too great for high-quality graphics, havn't looked into inkjet yet |
| 20:48.08 | xbmodder_lappy | ok.. cool so like 100 bucks for 100 CDs? |
| 20:48.14 | xbmodder_lappy | 150? |
| 20:48.54 | xbmodder_lappy | can you get a more professional e-mail addy? I don't want this guy to think that you are a amateur... |
| 20:49.18 | xbmodder_lappy | like "CD@qbfreak.net" |
| 20:49.28 | QBFreak | yeah, *@qbfreak.net goes to my inbox |
| 20:49.37 | QBFreak | so whatever you want "_ |
| 20:49.39 | QBFreak | err :) |
| 20:50.31 | xbmodder_lappy | cool |
| 20:52.28 | xbmodder_lappy | I sent him your e-mail addy |
| 20:52.32 | QBFreak | cool |
| 20:52.38 | QBFreak | any idea if paypal is ok with him? :) |
| 20:53.16 | xbmodder_lappy | he probably prefers check |
| 20:53.22 | QBFreak | that works too |
| 20:57.34 | xbmodder_lappy | how is everybody? |
| 21:01.01 | goozbach | tired of airports |
| 21:16.09 | QBFreak | I've got a friend who has done a few discs for me before, they look really nice, can get a good deal on the printer |
| 21:16.30 | QBFreak | that looks to be cheaper than doing thermal |
| 21:17.12 | xbmodder_lappy | QBFreak, where'd you get this loader anyway? |
| 21:17.46 | QBFreak | the last place I worked, they had two old ones that did only CD-Rs, propritary software and the like |
| 21:18.06 | QBFreak | slow too, rather old, I asked them what I could buy it for |
| 21:18.52 | QBFreak | got it for $25, and then put new hardware in it, did some shell scripts, it now burns DVDs and runs linux :) |
| 21:19.21 | QBFreak | I fixed up their other one for them |
| 21:19.24 | xbmodder_lappy | that is _cool_ |
| 21:19.28 | QBFreak | yeah |
| 21:19.31 | xbmodder_lappy | make some $$$ of it. |
| 21:19.49 | QBFreak | that was the intention, but I got busy with work and all :) |
| 21:19.59 | *** join/#utah GvzEvxre (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 21:19.59 | *** mode/#utah [+o GvzEvxre] by ChanServ |
| 21:20.54 | goozbach | ~rot13 goozbach |
| 21:20.54 | ibot | tbbmonpu |
| 21:22.15 | goozbach | ~rot26 goozbach |
| 21:22.15 | ibot | goozbach |
| 21:22.55 | goozbach | i didn't think ibot knew that :) |
| 21:23.17 | goozbach | leavin on a jet plane! |
| 21:28.27 | GvzEvxre | =) |
| 21:28.43 | GvzEvxre | ~rot1 hal |
| 21:28.43 | ibot | ibm |
| 21:30.11 | QBFreak | midnight plane to georgia? |
| 21:30.35 | *** join/#utah jnbek (n=jnbek@c-67-166-97-223.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 21:58.59 | *** join/#utah spig (n=spig@stet.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 22:05.28 | *** join/#utah jnbek (n=jnbek@c-67-166-97-223.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 22:07.28 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 22:07.49 | elg | ~stay |
| 22:07.51 | ibot | woof |
| 22:32.03 | *** join/#utah levi (n=levi@levi.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 22:35.48 | levi | Afternoon. |
| 22:40.06 | nick125_lappy | hello |
| 22:41.40 | QBFreak | is it too weird if I accidentally memorized my bank card number? |
| 22:41.56 | nick125_lappy | no |
| 22:42.06 | nick125_lappy | well...accidentally...thats a little weird |
| 22:42.27 | QBFreak | its also a visa, entered it too many times into web pages :) |
| 22:42.37 | nick125_lappy | lol |
| 22:43.03 | QBFreak | I also remember a library card number from something like 8-10 years ago, although I memorized that one intentionally |
| 22:43.10 | nick125_lappy | lol |
| 22:43.32 | QBFreak | ah that one is actually my current, its the older one I've forgotten half of |
| 22:43.56 | nick125_lappy | im so bored |
| 22:44.53 | levi | So write a program. :) |
| 22:44.54 | nick125_lappy | i need something cool to do.. |
| 22:45.06 | nick125_lappy | levi, like what kind of program? |
| 22:45.18 | levi | Any kind you like. |
| 22:45.20 | QBFreak | a TWiki application inventory manager |
| 22:45.42 | nick125_lappy | i should go and figure out how to use gtkmozembed and make Boing (a web browser i want to make in python) |
| 22:45.44 | nick125_lappy | QBFreak, lol |
| 22:51.26 | nick125_lappy | but i want to do something thats cooler then a web browser...something like..remote control or something like that..something to control something else from another box |
| 22:52.38 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 22:52.52 | levi | Interesting: http://www.cs.indiana.edu/~jsobel/c455-c511.updated.txt |
| 22:57.51 | QBFreak | hmm, if I add user ALL=/path/to/script.pl to sudoers its happy, but if I try user ALL=/path/to/script.pl NOPASSWD: ALL it fusses at me |
| 22:59.02 | *** join/#utah RyanE_ (n=ryan@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 23:00.58 | QBFreak | ahh, user ALL=NOPASSWD: Cmnd_Alias seems to work |
| 23:04.26 | levi | More interesting stuff: http://jaortega.wordpress.com/2006/02/05/beyond-mainstream-object-oriented-programming/ |
| 23:18.15 | xbmodder_lappy | I love IPTV |
| 23:22.19 | nick125_lappy | i need something to do |
| 23:22.44 | xbmodder_lappy | Help me on my speech |
| 23:22.48 | xbmodder_lappy | :( |
| 23:23.17 | xbmodder_lappy | I need to e2fsck -D |
| 23:23.30 | nick125_lappy | lol |
| 23:24.09 | levi | nick125_lappy: Read the links I posted. |
| 23:24.28 | xbmodder_lappy | read levi's anti-C paper |
| 23:59.06 | *** part/#utah spig (n=spig@stet.dsl.xmission.com) |