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| 00:23.05 | SpecialZ | ~lart maquis |
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| 00:23.28 | edeefelt | hi all |
| 00:23.52 | edeefelt | trying to remember who had info on PSTN termination, lost your email :-S, please chat me in private |
| 00:24.13 | jsmith-away | Could be any number of us :-) |
| 00:24.20 | edeefelt | someone in VoIP |
| 00:24.31 | maquis | -lart SpecialZ |
| 00:24.56 | edeefelt | I had another question if any one out there has an opinion on it. |
| 00:24.56 | jsmith-away | edeefelt: Still could be quite a few of us... lots of us do VoIP |
| 00:25.00 | edeefelt | I just finished my BS and planning to get some certs. |
| 00:25.10 | edeefelt | Of course will do the CISCO ones. |
| 00:25.18 | edeefelt | but thinking about some others |
| 00:25.30 | edeefelt | anyone do the Linux+ Network or Security for Comp Tia |
| 00:25.31 | edeefelt | ? |
| 00:26.30 | jsmith-away | The only cert I'm remotely interested in right now is dCAP... but that's so specialized that I doubt anyone else is interested in it. |
| 00:27.21 | edeefelt | looks interesting actually |
| 00:27.31 | edeefelt | my company is offering hosted PBX with * right now |
| 00:27.47 | jsmith | edeefelt: Oh yeah... where do you work? |
| 00:27.52 | edeefelt | Caflo |
| 00:28.08 | edeefelt | a small company in Florida that offers VoIP cervice to Latin and South American |
| 00:28.08 | jsmith | Never heard of it... but I do know a thing or two about Asterisk :-) |
| 00:28.20 | edeefelt | I am in Utah though, work out of my house :) |
| 00:28.27 | edeefelt | a nice arrangement :) |
| 00:28.53 | jsmith | Gee -- I'm in Utah too, and do Asterisk work out of my house... what a coincidence |
| 00:29.23 | edeefelt | you are Jared Smith? you definately do know plenty about * |
| 00:29.27 | edeefelt | you have a book out don't you? |
| 00:29.45 | jsmith | Uh, yeah... that's me. |
| 00:29.46 | maquis | jsmith's famous :) |
| 00:29.53 | jsmith | Infamous! |
| 00:29.54 | edeefelt | yeah, we are using * for hosted PBX, SER for SIP routing and GNUGK for H323 |
| 00:30.20 | edeefelt | still a big market left in South America (Vonage hasn't grabbed hold yet) :) |
| 00:31.06 | jsmith | edeefelt: Well, I wish I had more time to chat w/ you... but I've gotta run. Drop me a line later... |
| 00:31.13 | edeefelt | k, l8r |
| 00:46.19 | goozbach | edeefelt: you live in FL? |
| 00:46.35 | goozbach | nevermind |
| 00:46.40 | goozbach | read the ENTIRE backlog |
| 00:46.42 | goozbach | :) |
| 00:47.20 | goozbach | I'm headed to FL on sunday |
| 00:47.24 | goozbach | for TWO WEEKS! |
| 00:47.31 | goozbach | what should I do over the weekend? |
| 00:52.29 | drbrain | South Beach |
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| 00:54.07 | elg | graphyx: the cdrecord more than doesn't trust it. it's personal. he thought it sucked at the beginning, the kernel developers didn't listen to him, and so he's bitter |
| 00:54.27 | drbrain | bye! |
| 00:54.28 | elg | I personally don't think he's right, but whether or not he is, he's bitter and hence the "don't email me" and the warning messages |
| 01:00.33 | edeefelt | sorry was away |
| 01:00.41 | edeefelt | I live in UT but company I work for is in FL |
| 01:00.55 | edeefelt | goozbach: I live in UT but company I work for is in FL |
| 01:01.05 | edeefelt | FL is sooo nice |
| 01:01.14 | edeefelt | was just there last week for VoIP conference :) |
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| 01:40.29 | Mecworks | Here's one for you: http://blog.mecworks.com/articles/2006/02/02/luke-squirrelwalker/ |
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| 03:39.17 | mheath | ~praise The Ogden Standard-Examiner |
| 03:39.18 | ibot | All hail The Ogden Standard-Examiner! |
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| 04:52.20 | levi | Good evening. |
| 04:52.32 | QBFreak | evening |
| 04:54.37 | levi | I made progress on my Markdown implementation tonight. Woo. :) |
| 04:55.05 | levi | I have blockquotes and code blocks working. |
| 04:56.55 | QBFreak | Markdown? |
| 04:57.26 | levi | It's a markup language for writing text, like blog entries and the like. |
| 04:57.31 | QBFreak | ah cool |
| 04:58.00 | Tene | gah... I fail. |
| 04:58.17 | QBFreak | something you designed or just writing your own implementation? |
| 04:58.35 | Tene | I'm trying to write a file upload thingy here. I'm using code that works perfectly elsewhere. |
| 04:58.54 | Tene | The files are being created, but no content is going into them. I just get empty files. |
| 04:58.58 | Tene | mod_perl |
| 04:58.59 | levi | QBFreak: Just writing my own implementation. |
| 04:59.06 | QBFreak | ah ok, cool |
| 04:59.16 | tensai | you guys heard of Goodmail? |
| 04:59.29 | levi | QBFreak: It's in Common Lisp, to go with my Lisp blog engine. |
| 04:59.35 | levi | tensai: Nope. |
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| 05:09.22 | levi | http://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/ |
| 05:13.07 | amcnabb | Any python users? Pydoc is confusing me. |
| 05:14.12 | amcnabb | If I open up a particular file from a module, I can see documentation in it, but I can't figure out what to tell pydoc to coerce it to give it to me. |
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| 06:54.22 | xbmodder_lappy | hey |
| 06:54.40 | QBFreak | yarr! off the plank with ye |
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| 07:35.22 | Lone_Wanderer | That's odd, I was pretty sure Zelazny died in June of '05, but it looks like he just died again now. |
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| 14:22.58 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
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| 15:19.44 | elg | hey alright, the end has a stream now |
| 15:30.02 | xbmodder_lappy | hey |
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| 15:55.04 | jsmith | elg: They do? |
| 15:55.21 | *** join/#utah phinux (n=phinux@iocane.cs.byu.edu) |
| 15:55.27 | elg | yup, according to this email |
| 15:55.39 | elg | 1019theend.com |
| 15:55.54 | elg | I'm excited, since there 0 good radio stations here |
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| 16:05.15 | jsmith | What? VMWare GSX is gonna be free? |
| 16:11.44 | mrpull- | jsmith: whoa! do tell more. |
| 16:12.06 | jsmith | mrpull-: http://news.com.com/VMware+to+make+server+product+free/2100-1012_3-6034615.html?tag=nefd.top |
| 16:12.11 | brac | [VMware to make server product free | CNET News.com] |
| 16:12.43 | mrpull- | the workstation product is awesome. i haven't used the server app. |
| 16:13.09 | mrpull- | that makes xen a lot less attractive (to me) |
| 16:24.02 | emcnabb | "Note that Kama Sutra will do the same thing again on the third of every month, so rather than risking your computer files, it is a much better idea to bop this nasty beast on the head by running anti-virus," said Carole Theriault, senior security consultant at Sophos, a computer security company based in the United Kingdom. |
| 16:24.10 | emcnabb | "bop this nasty beast on the head" |
| 16:24.12 | emcnabb | wow |
| 16:25.13 | graphyx | I think we should write a program that automagically changes the date on our computers to skip the 3rd and have 2 4ths each month to protect us against this nasty virus. |
| 16:25.31 | Jayce^ | why? just dont' be vulnerable |
| 16:25.38 | graphyx | Since the simplest solution is the best, right? |
| 16:25.46 | graphyx | </sarcasm humor> |
| 16:25.51 | emcnabb | just don't turn on your computer, right? |
| 16:26.09 | graphyx | That's the spirit. |
| 16:26.32 | jsmith | Why not just give everyone a vacation on the 3rd of every month? |
| 16:26.39 | graphyx | Hey, I can deal with that one. |
| 16:26.45 | jsmith | And anybody who works on their vacation gets what they deserve... |
| 16:26.45 | emcnabb | or use OpenOffice |
| 16:26.50 | graphyx | jsmith: You are set up such that you could do that already. |
| 16:27.03 | jsmith | graphyx: Hey, good idea! Is today the 3rd? |
| 16:27.37 | graphyx | Yes it is. |
| 16:31.17 | *** join/#utah xbmodder_ (n=xbmodder@dsl092-012-130.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 16:31.19 | xbmodder_ | hey sup |
| 16:31.28 | graphyx | a/s/l? |
| 16:31.51 | graphyx | actually. Don't answer that. Even in jest. |
| 16:32.27 | Jayce^ | graphyx, you are *soooo* lucky harleypig isn't watching right now |
| 16:32.35 | graphyx | That be true. |
| 16:33.52 | xbmodder_ | graphyx: :-/ |
| 16:35.32 | xbmodder_ | some girl came in this morning and said "My eyes be watering" and pulled her eyelids down.. |
| 16:35.32 | mrpull- | xbmodder: is she a pirate? |
| 16:35.51 | xbmodder_ | mno |
| 16:35.53 | xbmodder_ | but a prep |
| 16:38.31 | elg | http://www.boingboing.net/2006/02/03/wasp_performs_roachb.html |
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| 16:40.42 | emcnabb | http://stupidco.com/aol_throne_finished.html |
| 16:40.43 | brac | [Stupidco.com] |
| 16:41.51 | emcnabb | I've seen a lot of cool things done with AOL CDs, but that takes the cake |
| 16:42.20 | elg | -lart sjansen |
| 16:44.29 | levi | Yow. |
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| 16:59.04 | sjansen | http://www.lifelibertyetc.com/Photoshoot_Kate.aspx <-- Is it just my quirky sense of humor or is that funny? |
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| 17:08.06 | Jayce^ | admit it sjansen, you're desperate |
| 17:08.35 | sjansen | Because I'm able to see the lighter side of gun nuts like you? |
| 17:10.06 | emcnabb | icky |
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| 17:26.51 | levi | Chicks with guns and overly large SUVs don't really turn me on. |
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| 17:27.22 | Jayce^ | overly large guns? |
| 17:28.01 | tensai | oh, great. somebody pulled Jayce^'s trigger. |
| 17:28.09 | elg | it hougth that was a schoolbus |
| 17:28.25 | levi | elg: No, indeed. |
| 17:28.53 | levi | elg: It's an overly-large SUV. An H1, maybe? |
| 17:29.27 | Jayce^ | it is an h1 levi |
| 17:29.29 | Hhhhh | Did you guys read Linus's reply to questions about GPLv3? |
| 17:29.40 | levi | This chick is way cooler than the one with the guns: http://ileriseviye.org/arasayfa.php?inode=samantha-lisp.html ;) |
| 17:29.42 | brac | [Ýleri Seviye | ileri seviye bilgi paylaþýmý] |
| 17:30.14 | Hhhhh | hmm, is this a scantly dressed chick picture? |
| 17:30.36 | RyanE_ | Hhhhh:no, safe for work. |
| 17:30.39 | Hhhhh | if so, a work safety warning is in place |
| 17:30.40 | Hhhhh | oh, ok |
| 17:31.12 | levi | The chick with guns has a bare midriff, but nothing scandalous. |
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| 17:32.02 | tensai | have you seen the H4 prototype? http://www.minecountry.com/homeMine/photos/p42.jpg |
| 17:32.46 | RyanE_ | I'd skip the H4, go straight for "the Canyoneiro". |
| 17:33.09 | levi | Haven't seen the H4, but the H3 makes me want to hurl. |
| 17:33.37 | RyanE_ | s/canyoneiro/canyonero |
| 17:33.45 | levi | tensai: Heh. I think they're getting smaller with the bigger numbers, though, not bigger. |
| 17:34.11 | levi | tensai: That's like the H0 prototype or something. |
| 17:39.09 | sjansen | http://livedigital.com/AAAAAABVVQ/content/1704/c10 |
| 17:50.03 | mrpull- | sjansen: holy cow |
| 17:50.44 | goozbach | that thing is massive |
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| 17:57.48 | elg | oh what do I get for a lap whiteboard. 9x12 or 12x18? |
| 17:58.44 | Newsome | got a big lap or a small lap? |
| 17:59.13 | sjansen | which one has the higher pixel count? |
| 18:00.12 | Newsome | are both flat-panel whiteboards? |
| 18:03.24 | sjansen | do either include integrated sound or peripheral support? |
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| 18:04.49 | mrpull- | what the heck is a lap whiteboard? |
| 18:04.55 | emcnabb | does it run Windows XP Tablet Edition? |
| 18:05.32 | elg | http://www2.abcstuff.com/cgi/Web_store/web_store.cgi/cart_id=5970818.1474&item=LB001&product=&keywords=dry%20erase |
| 18:05.36 | brac | [Dry-Erase Lap Board, 9"x12"] |
| 18:05.43 | mrpull- | BTW, I need one of those laptop computer coolers. One of my notebooks tries to rob me of my manhood. |
| 18:06.47 | mrpull- | elg: ahh... those are great. I remember seeing some with beanbags on the back. |
| 18:06.58 | mrpull- | what the heck do you need one of those for? |
| 18:07.47 | elg | sketches |
| 18:08.02 | mrpull- | why not buy a sketchbook? |
| 18:08.04 | elg | you know, UML-ish, notes about what's stored in what register, etc. |
| 18:08.22 | mrpull- | ahh... not art doodles? |
| 18:09.23 | elg | no, thinking doodles |
| 18:09.42 | elg | paper and pencil works ok, but it's harder to erase, so it's not so good for changing stuff (like what's in that register) |
| 18:10.02 | Newsome | larger whiteboard might be more convenient, then |
| 18:10.10 | elg | not as a student |
| 18:10.14 | *** join/#utah decriptor (n=decripto@207.88.76.81.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 18:10.19 | elg | carry it around in your backpack, etc. |
| 18:10.19 | decriptor | hey all |
| 18:10.43 | elg | besides, I like my whiteboard at my side reachable without moving from my couch |
| 18:10.51 | decriptor | What is the opinion on using perl to interact with databases and more specific mysql |
| 18:10.59 | elg | it works |
| 18:11.31 | mrpull- | start the countdown to scripting wars in 3...2....1.... |
| 18:11.58 | *** join/#utah wps__ (n=wps@209.63.57.116) |
| 18:12.15 | elg | no, that's wps__ |
| 18:14.56 | sjansen | you know, that's a good idea |
| 18:15.10 | goozbach | decriptor: Class::DBI |
| 18:15.26 | goozbach | or Jayce^ what was the other one you were ranting about earlier? |
| 18:23.55 | Jayce^ | DBIx::Class |
| 18:24.03 | Jayce^ | it's the new upgrade over Class::DBI |
| 18:25.18 | goozbach | there ya go |
| 18:25.20 | decriptor | Someone was saying that you don't want to use perl for database interaction ? (not trying to start a flamewar but wow it sounds like it :) ) |
| 18:25.52 | goozbach | that person must be crazy |
| 18:25.54 | goozbach | or stupid |
| 18:25.58 | goozbach | or crazy stupid! |
| 18:26.04 | goozbach | :) |
| 18:26.10 | decriptor | good to hear then |
| 18:27.56 | Jayce^ | decriptor, that's what I would say.. |
| 18:28.18 | Jayce^ | the DBI interface is one of the nicest language api's imho.. |
| 18:37.07 | levi | What you really want to be using is MSSQL, C#, and Linq. ;) |
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| 18:40.31 | lukfugl | I've got a table with a varchar column that's a key, but queries against it are still running *real* slow... are indexes on varchar's ineffective? |
| 18:41.06 | lukfugl | it's a mysql innodb table |
| 18:45.05 | jsmith | Ah... innodb tables... you expected them to be fast?!? |
| 18:46.13 | Jayce^ | should be fine |
| 18:46.30 | lukfugl | sorry, I double checked, they're MyISAM. I got them backwards... I just knew they were the default |
| 18:46.49 | Jayce^ | myisam, you have concurrent reads/writes going |
| 18:46.53 | Jayce^ | table lock there |
| 18:47.02 | Jayce^ | innodb is fast :) |
| 18:47.17 | lukfugl | ("they" = our tables, not innodb... I forgot which was the default) |
| 18:47.42 | lukfugl | Jayce^: no locks, I know for a fact there's no writes happening at all right now (development DB) |
| 18:48.08 | Newsome | ~lart BYU's "Intrusion Prevention System" |
| 18:48.22 | Jayce^ | varchar will be *slower*, of course, not fixed witdth, but still, should be fast enough unless something is going on |
| 18:48.55 | jsmith | lukfugl: How slow is "real slow"? |
| 18:49.03 | lukfugl | must just be the size of data then, I was just wondering |
| 18:49.31 | lukfugl | jsmith: on the order of minutes to fetch 7 million matching rows out of 40 million total rows |
| 18:49.59 | lukfugl | correction (the part that made it feel slow): *counting* 7 million matches out of 40 million rows |
| 18:50.09 | Jayce^ | 40 mill is a lot, how much of that is data *fetch* |
| 18:50.15 | Jayce^ | ahh, just a count |
| 18:50.24 | Jayce^ | have you done an explain? |
| 18:50.41 | lukfugl | it's the fact that a count(*), and the only clause in the where is on a key, makes me think it should be faster |
| 18:50.52 | lukfugl | no, haven't explain-d it yet |
| 18:51.06 | Jayce^ | the mysql optimizer should take the (*) and turn it into just the key.. |
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| 18:51.15 | Jayce^ | so that *shouldn't* be a problem |
| 18:51.30 | Jayce^ | but you could try changing the star to properly just listing the field you want |
| 18:51.52 | lukfugl | funny thing is, I just tried doing a "create temporary table foo (select * where ...)" with the same where clause and it ran *faster* than the count |
| 18:52.03 | lukfugl | factor of about 3, consistently |
| 18:52.11 | Jayce^ | do the explain, likely hitting some kind of table scan from how it's written |
| 18:52.42 | Jayce^ | also, how is your key defined? and what's the data? |
| 18:52.46 | decriptor | so is everyone coming to the uvlug tomorrow |
| 18:53.11 | goozbach | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/02/03/bofh_2006_episode_5/ |
| 18:53.13 | brac | [BOFH: Headhunted | The Register] |
| 18:53.27 | Jayce^ | could you possibly define the key to just a *part* of the data, maying the key a fixed width.. |
| 18:53.29 | Jayce^ | that would help |
| 18:54.43 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 18:54.51 | lukfugl | no, fixed width won't work (unfortunately) |
| 18:55.45 | Jayce^ | even a subset of the data? |
| 18:56.36 | Jayce^ | if you can use the key for 30% of the total table, and let the engine scan just that, could be much lighter on the system that keying the whole thing |
| 18:56.46 | tensai | o/~ deleting email... deleting email... ~/o |
| 18:56.51 | Jayce^ | especially if you can build a multipart key to get any otehr specifics you are working with |
| 18:57.01 | lukfugl | key is non-unique, collation=A, index_type=BTREE |
| 18:59.44 | *** join/#utah phinux (n=phinux@hemlock.cs.byu.edu) |
| 19:00.30 | lukfugl | the table is an email collection (optin targetted distribution, so I don't get lynched ;), one row for each unique email. The users of the data want to be able to pull out a chunk of addresses by domain, so we've created a separate column that contains just the domain and indexed it |
| 19:00.41 | lukfugl | it's the select by domain that's slow |
| 19:01.15 | lukfugl | I can actually live with the ~2minutes to select into a temporary table, I was just curious why the count was so much slower than the full select |
| 19:01.30 | Jayce^ | you should definately be able to do a key over a smaller part of the data |
| 19:01.47 | Jayce^ | it shouldn't be.. but it's hard to give anything else without seeing more of what's going on |
| 19:02.10 | Jayce^ | are you doing any sorting? |
| 19:02.28 | lukfugl | true, I guess I could key the first three characters of the domain, for instance, then only look over the rest of the domain name once I know the first three characters match |
| 19:02.34 | lukfugl | is that the sort of thing you're talking about? |
| 19:02.41 | lukfugl | nope, no sorting |
| 19:02.46 | Jayce^ | order by, etc.. or possibly filling up key buffers, or sort buffer |
| 19:03.01 | Jayce^ | lukfugl, exactly.. can make a big diff, and you use a lot less memory if tuned right |
| 19:03.07 | lukfugl | no order by, no group by |
| 19:03.11 | Jayce^ | especially on that size of data |
| 19:03.40 | Jayce^ | did you change the count(*) to count(fieldname) just in case the optimizer doesn't munge it? |
| 19:03.45 | Jayce^ | most sql optimizers don't |
| 19:04.02 | Jayce^ | mysql's did in the 3.x branch, should later but I can't confirm that |
| 19:04.12 | lukfugl | can you add a key on "substring" or something like that, or do I have to add another column to contain the fixed-width chunk? |
| 19:04.44 | Jayce^ | no, just create a key with a size limit (check the docs).. it'll just key the first N chars |
| 19:04.51 | Jayce^ | no need to touch the data |
| 19:05.01 | lukfugl | Jayce^: no, I haven't. Surprised though that the "select *" (which is also using all columns, isn't it?) is faster than the count(*) which may or may not be using all columns |
| 19:05.09 | lukfugl | perfect |
| 19:05.10 | lukfugl | thanks |
| 19:05.42 | Jayce^ | the count probably has to bring everything into memory before the count... the select is iterative |
| 19:05.54 | Jayce^ | which is why I was asking about the memory |
| 19:05.54 | lukfugl | ah, that would make sense |
| 19:06.18 | Jayce^ | lunch... bbl8r |
| 19:06.27 | lukfugl | thanks, Jayce^ |
| 19:06.56 | Jayce^ | np |
| 19:21.05 | mrpull- | anybody used IDSLite / Sguil CD? |
| 19:21.26 | Tene | hmm... |
| 19:36.10 | goozbach | drawing things with an eraserhead kinda stinks |
| 19:37.27 | lukfugl | hrm... anyone worked with mysql tables with upwards of 50 million rows? |
| 19:37.39 | lukfugl | we're getting "table full" errors |
| 19:38.48 | jsmith | lukfugl: I've used MySQL tables with as many as 400 million rows -- but I don't recommend it. |
| 19:44.28 | lukfugl | jsmith: how many columns in the table? |
| 19:47.04 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@204.14.21.69) |
| 19:50.56 | lukfugl | ok, I found it, it's the 4GB limit on the file representing the table |
| 19:50.58 | lukfugl | http://jeremy.zawodny.com/blog/archives/000796.html |
| 19:51.00 | brac | [Overcoming MySQL's 4GB Limit (by Jeremy Zawodny)] |
| 19:56.31 | goozbach | but I must say that inkscape roxors |
| 19:58.00 | sjansen | hard core |
| 20:00.05 | Jayce^ | lukfugl,yeah, would have pointed that out, using defaults on a higher end systems is just asking for problems |
| 20:01.15 | lukfugl | oh well. Now as I'm reading through the comments on that page, it seems some are claiming that "alter table foo max_rows=..." is a *destructive* alter, making the rows go buhbye. Anyone here able to verify/repudiate that? |
| 20:01.51 | lukfugl | I've already started the alter, but hope it won't kill those 53 million rows |
| 20:03.56 | goozbach | so what's that lightweight httpd daemond |
| 20:04.05 | goozbach | s/daemond/daemon |
| 20:04.08 | goozbach | ? |
| 20:04.14 | goozbach | tinyhttpd |
| 20:04.17 | goozbach | smallhttpd |
| 20:04.49 | lukfugl | lighttpd? |
| 20:05.29 | harleypig | I understand graphyx wanted my asl? |
| 20:05.49 | goozbach | lukfugl: thanks |
| 20:07.02 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@hfugal.NMSU.Edu) |
| 20:08.05 | mrpull- | Goshen: tux? |
| 20:08.14 | mrpull- | errr... Goozbach: tux? |
| 20:14.49 | Goshen | tux? |
| 20:14.53 | Tene | lukfugl|work: you *do* make backups of your databases, right? |
| 20:15.27 | elg | ~rlart |
| 20:15.40 | Tene | ~rlart |
| 20:26.18 | sjansen | backup development? surely you jest. development is dispoable by definition. the worst that could possible happen is losing months of undocumented work, just make a copy of production and start over |
| 20:27.36 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@hfugal.NMSU.Edu) |
| 20:51.41 | findlay | yea, I'm now known as findlay |
| 20:52.42 | *** join/#utah SunSparc (n=jonathan@71-36-78-27.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 20:53.12 | SunSparc | Anyone use SubVersion? |
| 20:53.47 | sjansen | not anymore |
| 20:53.50 | findlay | I've heard it's kind of subversive, haha |
| 20:54.00 | SunSparc | :) |
| 20:55.24 | SunSparc | Probably a better question for the SubVersion channel. ;) |
| 20:55.27 | *** part/#utah SunSparc (n=jonathan@71-36-78-27.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 21:01.28 | findlay | 2.6.16 changed the all the netfilter stuff |
| 21:05.13 | Tene | yay? |
| 21:09.44 | findlay | indeed |
| 21:10.23 | mrpull- | findlay: how is netfilter changed? good / bad / ugly? |
| 21:11.09 | findlay | they removed triplicate code in the kernel and changed all the config options |
| 21:11.21 | findlay | now I'm just trying to get things working again (: |
| 21:12.03 | mrpull- | sounds good and bad |
| 21:12.30 | mrpull- | the config for building has changed? or the config for using has changed... |
| 21:15.24 | graphyx | Here I sit at my computer at work and see all the support email building up and smile since it is all work that I won't be doing. |
| 21:22.39 | lars-ut | looks like Costco online has that SD w/USB controller media Jayce mentioned yesterday on their web site for $100 |
| 21:22.40 | lars-ut | http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11092176&whse=&topnav=&browse=&s=1 |
| 21:22.49 | dataw0lf | god I hate how dynamic the netfilter code is |
| 21:26.48 | lars-ut | $113.20 after s/h & tax [Sandisk 1GB Ultra II Combo SD Card & USB] |
| 21:29.20 | dataw0lf | Nice. |
| 21:29.33 | sjansen | ~language dataw0lf (because maquis is apparently asleep at the keyboard) |
| 21:29.35 | ibot | ACTION grabs dataw0lf (because maquis is apparently asleep at the keyboard) by the ear and washes dataw0lf (because maquis is apparently asleep at the keyboard)'s mouth out with soap |
| 21:29.47 | sjansen | heh |
| 21:29.56 | dataw0lf | language? |
| 21:30.08 | dataw0lf | ah |
| 21:30.15 | dataw0lf | wow. Sorry. |
| 21:30.33 | levi | What's wrong with the netfilter code? |
| 21:30.58 | dataw0lf | You can develop much with it because it changes so much. |
| 21:31.15 | levi | Ahh, that would be frustrating. |
| 21:31.28 | dataw0lf | For example, I was attempting to write a Python module in C to access netfilter directly, and it's broken the next minor kernel version. |
| 21:32.00 | dataw0lf | They actually advise just calling iptables when doing development. It's pretty annoying. |
| 21:32.35 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp25.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 21:33.04 | sjansen | Sounds like a good argument for libiptables (if such a thing doesn't exist). |
| 21:33.39 | dataw0lf | libiptc is all that exists for now, and that's the one with the problem. |
| 21:33.44 | dataw0lf | http://www.netfilter.org/documentation/FAQ/netfilter-faq-4.html |
| 21:33.48 | dataw0lf | Item 4.5 |
| 21:34.43 | sjansen | heh |
| 21:35.15 | dataw0lf | but you're right, there really is a need for it. |
| 21:35.41 | dataw0lf | going through iptables-restore is just a terrible way to do things |
| 21:36.05 | sjansen | Some days I really get disgusted by the messy, half-baked state of Linux... then I remember what it was like using the other two major OSes. |
| 21:36.35 | dataw0lf | I still prefer various commercial Unices in a variety of circumstances. |
| 21:36.51 | dataw0lf | Workstation wise, Linux is the best but it gets really annoying for me too. |
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| 21:37.03 | elg | sjansen: see, that's when normal people would go for a nature hike |
| 21:37.18 | elg | or turn to the cubicle neighbor and start talking about sports or something |
| 21:37.38 | dataw0lf | iptstate <-- never knew it existed. Pretty cool. |
| 21:39.22 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch@66.239.25.2.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 21:40.32 | sjansen | whoa, cool |
| 21:42.54 | dataw0lf | sjansen: iptstate ? |
| 21:46.41 | sjansen | yeah |
| 21:48.54 | levi | netfilter doesn't even work for me on my embedded Linux device. Which is rather frustrating. |
| 21:49.27 | levi | Well, I should say, iptables doesn't work, and I haven't been able to figure out why yet. |
| 21:59.25 | dataw0lf | I've got alot of experience in that arena if you want a hand. |
| 21:59.31 | dataw0lf | sjansen: yea, it's pretty awesome. |
| 22:00.39 | emcnabb | very cool |
| 22:09.52 | sjansen | onjoin hans |
| 22:15.14 | *** join/#utah amcnabb (n=amcnabb@128.187.181.55) |
| 22:20.40 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@cobra.mcnabbs.org) |
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| 22:34.41 | sjansen | o/~ You are the dancing queen, young and sweet, only seventeen~/o |
| 22:34.41 | sjansen | o/~Dancing queen, feel the beat from the tambourine~/o |
| 22:35.21 | emcnabb | ~lart sjansen |
| 22:35.57 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp25.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 22:44.54 | elg | so, any horror stories from the virus today? |
| 22:46.05 | sjansen | o/~ Maresia, sente a maresia, maresia... ~/o |
| 22:46.06 | sjansen | o/~ Apaga fumaça do revólver, da pistola ~/o |
| 22:46.06 | sjansen | o/~ Manda fumaça do cachimbo pra cachola ~/o |
| 22:47.08 | Jayce^ | o/~ me sinto s?, me sinto s?, me sinto t?o seu ~/o |
| 22:55.57 | sjansen | Heh, all of a sudden I'm craving arroz, feijao e ovo. |
| 22:57.44 | lukfugl|work | feijao? |
| 22:59.05 | sjansen | a higher state of bean |
| 22:59.23 | lukfugl|work | oh, and for anyone interested, running "alter table foo max_rows=..." did *not* kill my data, it is a safe operation on a populated table |
| 22:59.42 | lukfugl|work | (assuming you don't mind your table being locked against reads for the couple of hours it might take) |
| 22:59.52 | lukfugl|work | erm, s/reads/writes/ |
| 22:59.56 | lukfugl|work | reads work fine |
| 23:00.28 | lukfugl|work | sjansen: mmm |
| 23:01.43 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@128.123.232.3) |
| 23:01.56 | lukfugl|work | ~lart elg |
| 23:02.09 | elg | -lart lukfugl|work |
| 23:18.41 | harleypig | dataw0lf: The problem I was having with my ipaq connection was a firewall, even though I thought I didn't have a firewall. |
| 23:18.51 | dataw0lf | harleypig: doh |
| 23:19.17 | harleypig | kubuntu installs iptables by default and sets up some basic rules based on its initial scan of the network. |
| 23:19.37 | harleypig | not a bad thing, but this is why I hate package distros ... you don't know what you have installed. |
| 23:19.47 | dataw0lf | What? Who told you that? |
| 23:20.00 | harleypig | #kubunut |
| 23:20.15 | dataw0lf | That has to be specific to KUbuntu then, because I'm a Ubuntu developer and I haven't heard of any policy like that being implemented. |
| 23:20.39 | harleypig | hmmm ... I was told that it was a ubuntu thing ... |
| 23:20.41 | harleypig | *shrug* |
| 23:21.31 | harleypig | I don't mind ... it's a good thing for John Q Normal who isn't going to do much of anything, which is apparently what kubuntu is aimed for |
| 23:22.00 | harleypig | but you'd think there would be something in place to make something like this easier to do, considering how many John Q Normal's there are. |
| 23:22.09 | dataw0lf | Well, on a default install of Ubuntu, there are no enabled services. |
| 23:22.35 | harleypig | It must be Kubuntu then ... cause I certainly didn't choose iptables. I didn't choose anything, just went for the defaults. |
| 23:22.40 | dataw0lf | hm |
| 23:22.47 | dataw0lf | They shouldn't be doing that. |
| 23:22.52 | dataw0lf | thanks for the info. |
| 23:22.58 | harleypig | welcome |
| 23:24.00 | dataw0lf | Man, that's really strange. |
| 23:24.04 | dataw0lf | You didn't install any other packages? |
| 23:31.15 | maquis | harleypig: ubuntu installs a couple kitchen-sinks by default... |
| 23:35.47 | sjansen | maquis: hardly, and seeing as dataw0lf is not only a current ubuntu user but I developer I tend to trust him more |
| 23:36.12 | sjansen | ubuntu fits on a single CD, how many distros other than gentoo can say that? |
| 23:36.36 | maquis | true... but at least fedora asks before installing stuff |
| 23:36.57 | Tene | anyone know a way to edit mpeg-4 atoms? |
| 23:37.01 | maquis | i don't like it when i have to do a special "server" install just to not get ooffice |
| 23:38.16 | *** join/#utah hagna (n=hagna@67.50.46.118) |
| 23:38.23 | hagna | anyone here make a tivo box with linux? |
| 23:38.30 | hagna | tivo like |
| 23:38.52 | RyanE | yeah. MythTV |
| 23:40.08 | RyanE | hagna: pretty simple setup, extensive guides. |
| 23:40.25 | hagna | RyanE: I'm going to try it |
| 23:40.27 | hagna | thanks |
| 23:40.54 | hagna | RyanE: will it pick up the TV guide metadata? |
| 23:40.59 | RyanE | yeah. |
| 23:41.02 | emcnabb | http://www.linuxedge.org/?q=node/55 |
| 23:41.06 | RyanE | it uses zap2it's data direct service. |
| 23:41.21 | RyanE | you just have to fill out a survey every few months, and you get that TV data free. |
| 23:41.41 | RyanE | I'd suggest you follow jarod wilson's FC4 installation guide. |
| 23:42.18 | hagna | RyanE: link? is that on the mythTV site? |
| 23:42.58 | RyanE | http://wilsonet.com/mythtv/fcmyth.php |
| 23:43.01 | brac | [Fedora Myth(TV)ology :: HOWTO] |
| 23:43.25 | RyanE | I was using SuSE 9, and just upgraded to FC4 with that guide, everything went pretty smooth. |
| 23:43.34 | RyanE | hagna: what TV capture hardware are you planning on using? |
| 23:43.44 | hagna | RyanE: no idea |
| 23:43.49 | hagna | HD would be cool |
| 23:43.58 | hagna | RyanE: what do you suggest? |
| 23:46.02 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 23:46.04 | harleypig | dataw0lf: I installed a couple of packages but nothing I can think of that would have depended on iptables. |
| 23:47.04 | goozbach | did I mention I LOVE inkscape? |
| 23:47.33 | spr | goozbach, yes you did. |
| 23:48.13 | goozbach | good |
| 23:48.16 | goozbach | http://blogs.gurulabs.com/derek/archives/2006/02/reverse_proxy_w.html |
| 23:48.19 | brac | [goozbach's Techtips: Reverse Proxy with httpd] |
| 23:48.39 | goozbach | That diagram is one of the reasons I love inkscape |
| 23:49.17 | sjansen | goozbach: feel free to repeat yourself, though |
| 23:49.20 | sjansen | inkscape is cool |
| 23:49.28 | goozbach | inkscape++ |
| 23:49.42 | *** join/#utah WoodsDog (n=woodsdog@pip.drs1.omniture.com) |
| 23:49.42 | goozbach | once you learn the keyboard shortcuts it's amazing |
| 23:51.30 | sjansen | goozbach: with a little rearranging you can get rid of the gratuitous line crossing |
| 23:51.46 | goozbach | sjansen: that's by design |
| 23:51.52 | goozbach | I could flip-flop them |
| 23:51.57 | RyanE | hagna: if you're doing HD, you want the http://pchdtv.com/ HD3000 card. If you're doing regular, you want a Hauppauge PVR250 or equivalent. |
| 23:51.58 | maquis | http://www.computerbytesman.com/google/imagesearch.htm?tiananmen |
| 23:51.59 | goozbach | but I like the astetics |
| 23:51.59 | brac | [Google.com and Google.cn side-by-side image search] |
| 23:52.26 | sjansen | I think the crossed lines makes it harder to understand. |
| 23:52.34 | goozbach | yeah? |
| 23:53.38 | maquis | if you go to that site, and click on the line just above the images (it's the "are you looking for" link), it's a bit more interesting |
| 23:53.44 | sjansen | Not horribly because the line types are so different, but it is harder for my eye to group connected parts. |
| 23:54.20 | RyanE | yeah, if you move the right box to the left, the client box to the top, and the connected virtual servers to the right, it might be clearer. |
| 23:54.46 | elg | anyone know how to underline something semiautomatically in vim? I figure it ought to be possible |
| 23:54.50 | elg | e.g. |
| 23:54.51 | elg | Introduction |
| 23:54.55 | elg | ----------- |
| 23:55.18 | elg | but only have to hit - once or twice and maybe something to indicate intent to complete |
| 23:55.51 | levi | sjansen: I was running my blog behind a reverse proxy at one point, but I switched since I wanted to retain the log info of my incoming connections. |
| 23:55.56 | RyanE | goozbach: can you do something similar, but instead of it being virtual hosts, have a sub-directory of your main site be reverse proxied to somewhere else? |
| 23:56.11 | sjansen | RyanE: except that as configured all of the virtual servers are running on one machine so they should be part of one unit |
| 23:56.29 | levi | RyanE: That's how my blog's reverse proxy was set up. |
| 23:56.35 | goozbach | RyanE: I'm showing how to run three different web server processes off one IP |
| 23:56.35 | RyanE | sjansen: I think you still have the containing loopback box around the left / right items. |
| 23:56.58 | RyanE | goozbach: yeah, I got that. but it appears that they're all different virtual hosts. |
| 23:57.10 | RyanE | I was wondering about just having a subdirectory of a site be proxied. |
| 23:57.18 | sjansen | RyanE: so do you mean to make the box shorter and put the virtual servers visually behind the public server? |
| 23:58.01 | RyanE | sjansen: I was just proposing making his box wider, have the connections go left-right, instead of up-down. That's all. |
| 23:58.04 | goozbach | look better now? |
| 23:58.26 | levi | sjansen: No, he means www.foo.com/bar/ going to 127.0.0.1:20000, I think. |
| 23:58.27 | sjansen | goozbach: yeah |
| 23:58.51 | RyanE | goozbach: that is a bit better. |
| 23:58.56 | RyanE | levi: yeah |
| 23:59.06 | sjansen | levi: I was responding to an earlier comment |
| 23:59.48 | levi | goozbach: The horizontally-squished font for 'Client Web Browser' hurts my eyes. |
| 23:59.49 | sjansen | goozbach: I think RyanE is right about making it wider being a good improvement. As it is now, it could kinda be interpreted to say that loopback is publically accessible. |
