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| 01:25.02 | colera | so i want to get use my linux box (running debian) as a fileserver for the rest of my windows machine anyone know a good tutorial on samba? it is alrady installed and running.. how do i configure it |
| 01:27.22 | vontrapp | just start in /etc/samba/smb.conf |
| 01:27.29 | vontrapp | there's good examples and comments in there |
| 01:27.50 | colera | alright |
| 01:28.18 | elg | or get swat and go that route |
| 01:28.31 | elg | unfortunately it's too well commented in most distros |
| 01:28.53 | elg | this is gathering momentum to becoming my pet peeve |
| 01:28.54 | colera | yeah i noticed swat, is that pretty easy? |
| 01:29.03 | vontrapp | swat? |
| 01:29.10 | colera | it's a web interface |
| 01:29.18 | elg | I hate it when a config file which is so simple in the simple case (like a good simple samba setup only needs to be like 20 lines) |
| 01:29.23 | colera | it comes standard for debian i think |
| 01:29.30 | elg | is so hard to grasp until you've read all the bazillions of comments and the man pages |
| 01:29.37 | elg | just because there's not a good succinct example. |
| 01:30.05 | elg | colera: I usually have more trouble getting swat actually working than setting up samba (with or without swat) |
| 01:31.04 | elg | I've yet to see swat work out the gates. always some stupid inetd tinkering |
| 01:31.25 | vontrapp | ~poo inetd |
| 01:31.27 | ibot | ACTION summons a troop of flying monkeys to fling their poo at inetd |
| 01:32.27 | colera | elg: i can see my linux box in network neighborhood but it won't let me logon with a user, it doesn't authenticate |
| 01:32.56 | vontrapp | colera: this is one thing i wish i knew a better way for |
| 01:33.22 | vontrapp | but as near as i've found, you make a user, then run "smbpasswd -a <user>" |
| 01:33.33 | vontrapp | or your user you already have, of course |
| 01:33.53 | vontrapp | but the user needs to be there regularly, then added to smbpasswd |
| 01:34.06 | colera | oh hmm is there a way to sync the passwd file and the samba passwd's? |
| 01:34.13 | vontrapp | don't know |
| 01:34.28 | vontrapp | haven't had a pressing need to find out |
| 01:34.59 | colera | so when my user attaches are his permissions the same on the samba share as they are on the linux box? |
| 01:35.03 | vontrapp | argh, i hate loud music |
| 01:35.15 | vontrapp | loud music that you hear through the walls |
| 01:35.31 | vontrapp | that isn't even good music to begin with |
| 01:36.34 | colera | : ) |
| 01:36.47 | colera | w00t! it works now |
| 01:36.50 | colera | thanks guy's |
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| 01:41.19 | elg | the problem is nt passwords and unix passwords use a different encryption scheme |
| 01:50.58 | colera | elg: okay i mapped the drive but i can't write on it |
| 01:51.01 | colera | i can only read |
| 01:51.24 | colera | but the permissions are set correct on the linux box. are there samba perms? |
| 01:52.46 | maquis | colera: what does windoze claim the permissions are? |
| 01:52.57 | elg | writeable=yes |
| 01:53.21 | maquis | or listen to elg, since he's not making things up off the top of his head |
| 01:54.05 | colera | maquis: strangly windows doesn't list any perms |
| 01:54.24 | colera | elg: where would i put that? |
| 01:54.36 | elg | in the stanza for your share |
| 01:54.50 | elg | paste your share here |
| 01:55.01 | elg | unless it's 100 lines of comments and 2 lines of interesting stuff |
| 01:55.27 | colera | elg: another question while i am at it, how would one user make a dir which could be readable/writable to every. it only seems to give me a listing of my home dir |
| 01:55.54 | colera | elg: my share is in the smb.conf? |
| 01:56.30 | elg | [pub] |
| 01:56.37 | elg | path=/path/to/pub |
| 01:56.41 | elg | writeable=yes |
| 01:56.46 | elg | public=yes |
| 01:56.57 | elg | browseable=yes |
| 01:57.15 | colera | all of this in smb.conf? |
| 01:57.59 | colera | oh i see what happens |
| 01:58.00 | colera | cool |
| 02:10.07 | xbmodder_lappy | lol |
| 02:12.57 | colera | elg: if i make a change in smb.conf do i have to restart smb for it to take effect? |
| 02:13.13 | colera | like i just set writable to yes. how can i start writing to it? |
| 02:13.14 | elg | no |
| 02:16.01 | colera | oh i guess it just took a min |
| 02:16.20 | colera | it's working, must havea refresh time or something |
| 02:19.15 | elg | samba's pretty much instantaneous, it was probably a windows thing |
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| 03:13.16 | xbmodder_lappy | elg, lol |
| 03:13.31 | elg | did I do something funny? |
| 03:13.46 | xbmodder_lappy | no. |
| 03:13.51 | xbmodder_lappy | i just like doing that to people. |
| 03:14.01 | xbmodder_lappy | some people are like "ya, thats funny" |
| 03:14.16 | xbmodder_lappy | ~rlart |
| 03:15.15 | xbmodder_lappy | ~say ~say hi |
| 03:15.16 | ibot | ~say hi |
| 03:15.43 | elg | further proof that you are a teenager |
| 03:17.22 | ScytheBlade1 | Haha, they accepted it |
| 03:17.30 | ScytheBlade1 | It's been modded into oblivion, but they accepted it: http://www.qdb.us/54970 |
| 03:17.31 | brac | [QDB: Quote #54970] |
| 03:17.39 | ScytheBlade1 | Erm, no, not yet... I lied |
| 03:17.48 | xbmodder_lappy | hah. I gave up on trying to make a good friend.. I just made an AI bot. |
| 03:18.06 | xbmodder_lappy | A really crappy AI bot if I didn't mention |
| 03:18.24 | ScytheBlade1 | xbmodder_lappy, check my link |
| 03:18.48 | xbmodder_lappy | i did |
| 03:18.52 | xbmodder_lappy | I votes ++ on it. |
| 03:18.58 | ScytheBlade1 | Good good |
| 03:25.50 | goozbach | what command do you use for direct modem manipulation in linux |
| 03:25.58 | goozbach | I want to send an ATZ manually to a modem |
| 03:26.03 | goozbach | what do I use? |
| 03:27.33 | QBFreak | is that something you could echo to a file and cp to the device? |
| 03:27.47 | goozbach | I don't know |
| 03:27.54 | goozbach | I thout there was a command |
| 03:28.00 | QBFreak | most likely :) |
| 03:28.08 | mrpull-x | goozbach: I'm thinking echo ATZ | /dev/STTY0 |
| 03:28.13 | mrpull-x | or something like that |
| 03:28.40 | mrpull-x | in DOS it was similar |
| 03:28.45 | QBFreak | I know in the past for quick and dirty serial sending I had to echo it into a file and then copy that to the device |
| 03:30.25 | QBFreak | 3.4MB QT of it in action (straight off the camera) http://qbfreak.net/images/100_1776.mov |
| 03:31.28 | xbmodder_lappy | mrpull-x, no "printf ATZ > /dev/STTY0" |
| 03:32.13 | goozbach | echo ATZ > /dev/rfcomm0 seems to do SOMETHING |
| 03:32.42 | mrpull-x | goozbach: why not use minicom? |
| 03:34.27 | xbmodder_lappy | QBFreak, where did you get that? |
| 03:34.30 | xbmodder_lappy | where do I buy one? |
| 03:34.35 | xbmodder_lappy | how much does it cost? |
| 03:35.56 | mrpull-x | echo "atdt5551234" > /dev/modem |
| 03:36.34 | xbmodder_lappy | mrpull-x, do commands have to end in \n? |
| 03:37.18 | mrpull-x | i dont think so. it's been years since I used a modem. |
| 03:37.24 | xbmodder_lappy | lol |
| 03:37.31 | xbmodder_lappy | why don't you just use PPPD? |
| 03:37.45 | xbmodder_lappy | and whatever your distro uses? |
| 03:38.35 | mrpull-x | goozbach: is this another scheme to impress girls? |
| 03:39.44 | Hhhhh | hmph, the Microsoft event tonight kindof sucked |
| 03:43.41 | mrpull-x | Hhhhh: what was the topic? |
| 03:43.54 | Hhhhh | just Halo 2 tournament |
| 03:44.19 | Hhhhh | the games were fine (I got to play some Call of Duty 2), but the giveaways sucked |
| 03:44.33 | Hhhhh | (not wanting to be ungrateful, but bleh) |
| 03:44.38 | Hhhhh | just shirts, etc |
| 03:44.46 | Hhhhh | no software/hardware |
| 03:45.33 | xbmodder_lappy | yeah |
| 03:55.54 | maquis | All women should know how to take care of children. Most of them will have a husband some day. |
| 03:55.57 | maquis | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:57.11 | Newsome | hey, I resemble that remark |
| 03:57.18 | maquis | :) |
| 04:26.42 | maquis | http://tuxgirl.com/breakage/semaphores.jpg <-- hmmm.... |
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| 04:28.26 | Newsome | maquis: you get all the fun ones! |
| 04:28.34 | maquis | Newsome: yup |
| 04:28.43 | maquis | isn't deleting semaphores a bad idea? |
| 04:28.54 | maquis | and... what kind of device are semaphores stored on? |
| 04:29.02 | maquis | and how many does it take to fill that device up? |
| 04:29.09 | Newsome | probably in kernel memory |
| 04:29.55 | Newsome | what is your box running? It sounds like the sort of thing to happen with a program that has a leak |
| 04:30.20 | maquis | the box is freebsd... i was running make when that happened |
| 04:30.25 | maquis | i was trying to install tomboy |
| 04:30.56 | maquis | other than that, i've got ssh, firefox, gaim and a couple terms |
| 04:32.00 | Newsome | do you get lots of output with 'ipcs' ? |
| 04:32.14 | maquis | no... but i killed make |
| 04:32.23 | maquis | [amon-re /root] ipcs |
| 04:32.23 | maquis | Message Queues: |
| 04:32.23 | maquis | T ID KEY MODE OWNER GROUP |
| 04:32.23 | maquis | Shared Memory: |
| 04:32.23 | maquis | T ID KEY MODE OWNER GROUP |
| 04:32.25 | maquis | m 65536 5432001 --rw------- pgsql pgsql |
| 04:32.28 | maquis | m 655361 0 --rw------- erins erins |
| 04:32.30 | maquis | m 1900546 0 --rw------- erins erins |
| 04:32.33 | maquis | m 1507331 0 --rw------- erins erins |
| 04:32.35 | maquis | m 720900 0 --rw------- erins erins |
| 04:32.38 | maquis | Semaphores: |
| 04:32.41 | maquis | T ID KEY MODE OWNER GROUP |
| 04:32.43 | maquis | s 65536 5432001 --rw------- pgsql pgsql |
| 04:32.46 | maquis | s 65537 5432002 --rw------- pgsql pgsql |
| 04:32.48 | maquis | s 65538 5432003 --rw------- pgsql pgsql |
| 04:32.51 | maquis | s 65539 1298349141 --rw------- root wheel |
| 04:32.53 | maquis | erm...probably shoulda done that in pm |
| 04:32.56 | maquis | sorry |
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| 04:35.23 | elg | http://mayhem-chaos.net/blog/archives/001026.html |
| 04:35.24 | brac | [The Home of Mayhem & Chaos:blog] |
| 04:53.46 | goozbach | GAAAAHHHH!!!! THIS Hotel sucks |
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| 04:57.02 | levi | Evening, folks. |
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| 05:04.49 | goozbach | not even the tv remote works |
| 05:05.21 | fozzmoo | Ahhh... the perils of being on the road. |
| 05:05.50 | fozzmoo | Need to get one of those tv remote programs for your Treo. |
| 05:07.08 | goozbach | I need to get a big stick this week |
| 05:07.08 | fozzmoo | /m goozbach You on Jabber? |
| 05:07.14 | goozbach | that'ls all |
| 05:07.24 | fozzmoo | Oh joy. |
| 05:07.46 | goozbach | fozzmoo: nope no internet acess at the hitel |
| 05:07.57 | fozzmoo | So you're IRCing w/ the phone? |
| 05:08.06 | fozzmoo | Oh- and you haven't worked that Bluetooth magic yet; |
| 05:08.38 | mheath | Heh |
| 05:08.41 | goozbach | doesn't work |
| 05:08.52 | fozzmoo | Worked for me in CO. |
| 05:08.59 | fozzmoo | I can't say exactly why... |
| 05:09.11 | fozzmoo | I had trouble for a while too.. |
| 05:09.15 | mheath | In California, two years ago....really nice hotel..... |
| 05:09.24 | fozzmoo | Then I double checked all my Linux-side settings... |
| 05:09.24 | mheath | Their computer system ran some Unix variant |
| 05:09.36 | fozzmoo | Didn't change anything- but when I restarted bluetooth services, everything fired right up. |
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| 05:09.52 | mheath | (Figured that out, because the TV's on-demand content brought up an error once, about a /dev/* item) |
| 05:10.11 | maquis | mheath: cool |
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| 05:10.30 | maquis | goozbach: you just need to hack the tv... :) it might have internet :) |
| 05:10.30 | goozbach | bbiab |
| 05:10.34 | mheath | That was in the middle of silicon valley, too |
| 05:10.38 | mheath | ATI was right across the freeway. |
| 05:10.52 | fozzmoo | maquis is talking dirty again. |
| 05:10.54 | mheath | as well as an intel office, I believe. |
| 05:11.00 | maquis | fozzmoo: :-P |
| 05:11.03 | goozbach | maquis: I'm lucky I HAVE a tv |
| 05:11.14 | mheath | heh |
| 05:11.18 | mheath | I've been in a horrible hotel |
| 05:11.26 | goozbach | not even the door works right |
| 05:11.28 | mheath | But all of them have had internet, at least |
| 05:11.41 | mheath | Every hotel I've stayed in since about 6 years ago has had internet of some form |
| 05:11.48 | fozzmoo | Stayed in a place in Glenwood Springs, CO that didn't even have a phone. |
| 05:11.54 | mheath | At least a dialup jack on the phone. |
| 05:12.14 | fozzmoo | Come to think of it, they didn't have soap/shampoo either. |
| 05:12.23 | fozzmoo | So you couldn't call anyone and complain. |
| 05:12.35 | fozzmoo | Never going back there. |
| 05:12.52 | maquis | goozbach: gnight |
| 05:12.56 | mheath | I've been surprised, though |
| 05:13.03 | mheath | hotels that have poor rooms will have a really nice free breakfast |
| 05:13.06 | fozzmoo | peace be with you goozbach. |
| 05:13.07 | maquis | don't let the resident bed bugs get you |
| 05:13.10 | mheath | and vice versa |
| 05:13.38 | fozzmoo | mheath: Did you catch your commander-in-chief on TV tonight? |
| 05:13.39 | goozbach | that's the one thing this hotel has going for it |
| 05:13.40 | mheath | Has anyone ridden on Amtrak before? |
| 05:13.42 | maquis | i've stayed in a few hotels w/o internet |
| 05:13.45 | goozbach | its clean |
| 05:13.51 | fozzmoo | mheath: A **long** time ago. |
| 05:13.58 | mheath | fozzmoo: He's not my commander and chief yet, and no. I was at work. |
| 05:14.00 | mheath | What did I miss? |
| 05:14.06 | fozzmoo | mheath: Oh- it rocked. You missed a great one. |
| 05:14.10 | maquis | at debate tournaments, there usually wasn't internet in our rooms... i didn't care, but my coach did... |
| 05:14.27 | maquis | mheath: i've ridden on amtrak, but it's been a while |
| 05:14.44 | mheath | maquis: heh, one of my teachers used to be in debate in the 60's and used to teach debate. He rages on and on about how great the internet is |
| 05:14.49 | mheath | And how long he used tos pend int he library. |
| 05:14.52 | mheath | fozzmoo: about what? |
| 05:15.00 | mheath | Another "We must stay the course" speech? |
| 05:15.10 | mheath | *And how long he used to spend in the library |
| 05:15.25 | maquis | mheath: my debate coach was in m$ research... so not having internet was actually a bit of a problem for him sometimes |
| 05:15.30 | fozzmoo | http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,183390,00.html |
| 05:15.46 | mheath | wow |
| 05:15.53 | mheath | I haven't been paying attention lately |
| 05:16.03 | maquis | me too |
| 05:16.06 | fozzmoo | mheath: Tonight's speech was all about optimism. |
| 05:16.32 | fozzmoo | I had a lump in my throat half the time. |
| 05:16.58 | mheath | I hate the president's interaction with the military |
| 05:17.01 | mheath | The speeches he gives |
| 05:17.21 | mheath | Like "Yes, I know its tough, but think of the great things your doing." type of things. |
| 05:17.38 | fozzmoo | The military seems to eat it right up. |
| 05:18.00 | mheath | fozzmoo: Not really. |
| 05:18.02 | fozzmoo | And it doesn't sound like military service during this "wartime" is much more dangerous than military service in "peacetime" |
| 05:18.09 | mheath | Yes it is. |
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| 05:18.24 | mheath | We have several casualties a week now, minimum |
| 05:18.48 | mheath | fozzmoo: And I've got to say, I thought you were being sarcastic saying this speech was good, considering his past record of speeches |
| 05:18.50 | mheath | But I agree |
| 05:18.59 | fozzmoo | No, I really thought it was great. |
| 05:19.07 | mheath | Yeah, its nice. |
| 05:19.36 | fozzmoo | I guess he's not a military man- doesn't really know how to talk to the military. |
| 05:19.47 | fozzmoo | but what he's saying is true - it's for a good cause. |
| 05:20.07 | RyanE_ | Does anyone know how I can install gcc 3.3 on Fedora Core 4, which uses gcc 4.0 by default? |
| 05:20.34 | fozzmoo | Do you need GCC 3.3 or can you get by with the libs? |
| 05:20.49 | RyanE_ | I think I need gcc 3.3. The Makefile uses gcc -V 3.3 |
| 05:21.07 | fozzmoo | Yeah- hang on. |
| 05:22.00 | mheath | Wait |
| 05:22.01 | fozzmoo | There is a compat-gcc-32 package |
| 05:22.13 | RyanE_ | is that in the standard repos? |
| 05:22.14 | mheath | He says Iran isn't a democracy in here. |
| 05:22.35 | fozzmoo | Well, no duh. |
| 05:22.40 | fozzmoo | RyanE_: base. |
| 05:22.41 | mheath | I'm not going to pretend I'm not familiar with Iran, but wasn't it a recent news item that a disliked political party just dominated an *election*? |
| 05:22.48 | mheath | *pretend I'm familiar with Iran |
| 05:23.03 | fozzmoo | That's Palestine. |
| 05:23.08 | fozzmoo | Not Iran. |
| 05:23.30 | fozzmoo | Hamas won a majority of the paliamentary seats in Palestinian election. |
| 05:23.49 | fozzmoo | Iran is pretty much a radical islamic theocracy. |
| 05:24.10 | fozzmoo | Unfortunately. |
| 05:24.15 | fozzmoo | We're kind of the reason they are too. |
| 05:24.21 | mheath | I used to pay attention to politics, and follow them closely. |
| 05:24.29 | mheath | Now, I really don't care, beyond broad and current things. |
| 05:24.47 | mheath | I realize that no one listens to me, and nothing I say makes a difference. It's not worth obsessing over it. |
| 05:24.53 | fozzmoo | Mistakes made like 20 years ago by the U.S. lead to the Ayahtollah rule in Iran. |
| 05:26.05 | mheath | What? He talks about hour history in this speech |
| 05:26.21 | mheath | and says that our countries history involves helping the world and defending democracy |
| 05:26.26 | mheath | and therefore isolationism isn't in our nature |
| 05:26.38 | mheath | For the large majority of our countries history, we were extremely isolationist. |
| 05:26.47 | fozzmoo | Yeah- until WW2 |
| 05:27.04 | fozzmoo | Hence our very late entrance into the war. |
| 05:27.36 | fozzmoo | But since then, the U.S. has been very involved in everything. :) |
| 05:27.38 | mheath | Well, I'm not going to argue that isolationism is good. |
| 05:27.43 | fozzmoo | It's not. |
| 05:27.54 | fozzmoo | Our open and free trade policies prove that. |
| 05:28.01 | mheath | I just find it rediculous that he's using our history as an example of involvement. |
| 05:28.09 | fozzmoo | Still can't convince my parents that owning a Subaru isn't unpatriotic. |
| 05:28.10 | mheath | When our history clearly isn't. |
| 05:28.34 | fozzmoo | Well, our recent history is. |
| 05:28.40 | fozzmoo | The last 50 or so years, anyway. |
| 05:30.04 | mheath | "They know what it is like to fight house to house in a maze of streets ... to wear heavy gear in the desert heat ... to see a comrade killed by a roadside bomb." |
| 05:30.14 | mheath | Its satements like that, when coming from him, piss me off |
| 05:30.21 | mheath | Because I know that they're shallow |
| 05:30.33 | mheath | He has not experienced these things, he probably didn't right that; he's just reading it. |
| 05:31.18 | mheath | I haven't directly experienced these things myself (except, perhaps, the equivelent of the wearing heavy gear in the desert heat), but I've sure expeirenced more things closer to them than he has. |
| 05:32.44 | mheath | He quotes a marine, too |
| 05:32.53 | fozzmoo | Doesn't mean he can't empathize. |
| 05:32.55 | mheath | A letter the guy wrote before he was killed by hidnappers |
| 05:33.03 | mheath | "I know what honor is. It has been an honor to protect and serve all of you. I faced death with the secure knowledge that you would not have to.... Never falter! Don't hesitate to honor and support those of us who have the honor of protecting that which is worth protecting." |
| 05:33.14 | mheath | Bush uses this as another "stay the course" defense |
| 05:33.33 | mheath | Hey, the soldier died so others could have their freedom! Therefore, he supports what we're doing in Iraq! |
| 05:33.35 | levi | Um, yeah, he faced death. |
| 05:33.43 | levi | Oh, that was part of a letter? |
| 05:34.03 | mheath | Regardless of what this soldiers views were on the war, the use of his words in this way is unacceptable |
| 05:34.18 | mheath | You need to understand the marine corps mentality. Theres a reason they always say Semper Fi. |
| 05:34.20 | fozzmoo | mheath: Soldier's parents were in the gallery. |
| 05:34.47 | fozzmoo | I never understood that semper fi thing... |
| 05:35.00 | fozzmoo | Always thought it meant, "I was in vietnam and I've been drunk ever since." |
| 05:35.03 | mheath | There dedicated to the group, and to their comrades. This was not a statement in support of our policy in Iraq, this is a statement in support of his Corp. |
| 05:35.11 | mheath | *They're dedicated |
| 05:35.13 | levi | Semper Fidelis |
| 05:35.20 | mheath | fozzmoo: "Always Faithful" |
| 05:35.27 | mheath | (HOORAH!) :-) |
| 05:35.39 | fozzmoo | Yeah- I never looked it up. |
| 05:35.47 | fozzmoo | I plead complete ignorance on that one. |
| 05:36.14 | levi | C'mon, don't you know your basic latin? ;) |
| 05:36.18 | mheath | I mean, the way he used that quote.....It obviously shows that he doesn't understand the mentatility of the military enlisted man. |
| 05:36.55 | fozzmoo | mheath: That's seems like a stretch, but I'll take your word. |
| 05:36.59 | levi | So was I. I took Latin instead some something impractical like Spanish. ;) |
| 05:37.28 | mheath | Seriously, half the people I work with now are Spanish. |
| 05:38.02 | fozzmoo | I remember some exercise where we had to listen to a tape and translate the story... |
| 05:38.44 | fozzmoo | And the story was that these two women were talking and one was telling the other about a party she had gone to. |
| 05:38.54 | fozzmoo | She met a man at the party and thought he was a burrito. |
| 05:38.59 | fozzmoo | At least, that's what I got out of it. |
| 05:39.02 | levi | Heh. |
| 05:39.18 | fozzmoo | It turns out, he was boring. aburrido. |
| 05:39.20 | levi | I had to take Spanish in elementary school for a few years when I lived in El Paso, TX. |
| 05:39.25 | maquis | :) |
| 05:39.29 | fozzmoo | That's why I never finished the first book. |
| 05:39.40 | levi | I won second place in a Spanish spelling bee one year. |
| 05:39.48 | levi | For whatever that's worth. |
| 05:39.59 | maquis | "This week saw the introduction of a so-called "bearer cheque" worth 50,000 Zimbabwean dollars - 50 times the highest available banknote - but actually worth around half a US dollar and only enough to buy a loaf of bread." |
| 05:40.14 | maquis | levi: spanish is spelled the way it's said |
| 05:40.15 | mheath | I really do need to look into some basic phrases that I use often |
| 05:40.16 | RyanE_ | spelling is a lot easier in romance languages. |
| 05:40.23 | mheath | "I need chicken on this salad, please" for example |
| 05:40.30 | levi | maquis: Indeed. |
| 05:40.37 | levi | RyanE_: Except for French! |
| 05:40.40 | mheath | "How long until the Fajita for table 12 is ready?" |
| 05:40.43 | maquis | assuming you know how the accents work, if you can say it, you can spell it |
| 05:40.50 | RyanE_ | levi: valid point. |
| 05:41.00 | levi | Those wacky Francophones. |
| 05:41.17 | fozzmoo | mheath: Pollo *make jabbing motion at salad* ensalada |
| 05:41.28 | levi | I never had much desire to learn Spanish. |
| 05:41.35 | maquis | french is overloaded with vowels |
| 05:41.49 | levi | And I mainly took Latin because it had the best teacher, and I'm very glad I did. He made the classes very fun. |
| 05:41.58 | fozzmoo | Very cool. |
| 05:42.04 | mheath | Pollo? |
| 05:42.05 | levi | fozzmoo: Oh, you must be one of those inexperienced programmers. ;) |
| 05:42.13 | levi | mheath: Pollo = chicken |
| 05:42.16 | maquis | mheath: it's said like poyo |
| 05:42.18 | mheath | ah |
| 05:42.30 | fozzmoo | Yeah- two l's make a y sound. |
| 05:42.30 | maquis | ll in spanish is said with a y sound |
| 05:42.37 | maquis | for example, llama is said yama |
| 05:42.38 | fozzmoo | WOOO! FIRST POST! |
| 05:42.43 | fozzmoo | ;-) |
| 05:42.46 | maquis | fozzmoo: ?? |
| 05:42.54 | fozzmoo | maquis: Beat ya to it. |
| 05:43.00 | mheath | "polloo, por favor" is the extend of my current spanish abilities. |
| 05:43.07 | mheath | *pollo |
| 05:43.32 | levi | And ñ is different than n. |
| 05:43.47 | fozzmoo | Pronounced "nya" |
| 05:43.55 | fozzmoo | or something like that. |
| 05:44.08 | levi | I thought it was more like en-yay |
| 05:44.34 | levi | Or maybe en-yeh |
| 05:44.44 | levi | It's been a while. |
| 05:44.48 | fozzmoo | Usually accompanied by the flicking of fingers off the bottom of ones chin - as if demonstrating the projectile path of unusually violent vomitting. |
| 05:45.02 | fozzmoo | Or maybe I'm thinking of something else. |
| 05:45.03 | levi | And then there's rr, which is different than r. |
| 05:45.43 | levi | You have to watch out for that, or you'll confuse 'dog' with 'but' |
| 05:46.08 | fozzmoo | Happens to me all the time. |
| 05:46.09 | fozzmoo | ;-) |
| 05:46.11 | maquis | :) |
| 05:46.16 | RyanE_ | or dog butt. |
| 05:46.19 | levi | (which, admittedly, are not likely to be confused for one another in context) |
| 05:46.28 | RyanE_ | you have an ugly dog |
| 05:46.31 | levi | I'm sure butt is some other word entirely. |
| 05:46.54 | mheath | "Tonight I ask you to pass legislation to prohibit the most egregious abuses of medical research — human cloning in all its forms ... creating or implanting embryos for experiments ... creating human-animal hybrids ... and buying, selling, or patenting human embryos." |
| 05:46.55 | fozzmoo | extremo |
| 05:47.07 | fozzmoo | mheath: I was a little ambivalent about that. |
| 05:47.12 | mheath | I can agree with the human-animal hybrids and the patenting of human embryos |
| 05:47.21 | fozzmoo | I mean, what could possibly be wrong with growing a human ear on the back of a pig? |
| 05:47.25 | fozzmoo | I'm all for that. |
| 05:47.38 | Tene | so, mheath, how do you feel about human insulin produced by cows? |
| 05:48.00 | fozzmoo | Or that. |
| 05:48.18 | mheath | But I for one, feel that the next state of medicine lies in stem sell and embryonic research |
| 05:48.30 | mheath | Leading to replacement organ generation and advance regrowth techniques. |
| 05:48.45 | fozzmoo | mheath: That's a common misconception- the left used that a lot in 2004 - to give people the impression the president was against stem cell reasearch. |
| 05:49.06 | mheath | fozzmoo: which is why I said "stem cell and embryonic research". |
| 05:49.18 | fozzmoo | But, in fact, the president was the first US president to allow federal funding for stem cell research, he just set up guidelines by which that funding was to be distributed. |
| 05:49.22 | mheath | I don't think theres any reason for human cloaning. |
| 05:49.25 | mheath | Its just not practical. |
| 05:49.43 | fozzmoo | There's already too many of us, right? :) |
| 05:50.34 | mheath | No, I mean, whats the point of making a clone of me? Or you? or some random embryo? |
| 05:50.34 | maquis | you wouldn't want another maquis wandering around? |
| 05:50.34 | fozzmoo | A Maquis for every man! |
| 05:50.58 | Tene | Nope, I'd much prefer her locked in my basement. |
| 05:50.58 | fozzmoo | hee hee. |
| 05:51.04 | levi | mheath: Well, growing a new ear could fall under the definition of cloning. |
| 05:51.04 | maquis | don't think there'd be much demand fozzmoo... |
| 05:51.05 | mheath | levi: I meant I agreed with him on stoping human-animal hybrids. |
| 05:51.12 | mheath | And on stopping patenting of human embryos. |
| 05:51.22 | fozzmoo | Would growing a new kidney from someone's cells constitute cloning? |
| 05:51.23 | Tene | mheath: |
| 05:51.33 | Tene | where do you think we get human insulin for diabetics from? |
| 05:51.37 | fozzmoo | Someone should stop with the patents on genomic data. |
| 05:51.40 | levi | fozzmoo: It could, depending on the definition. |
| 05:51.51 | mheath | Tene: Thats genetic modification, not human-animal hybridgs. |
| 05:51.58 | mheath | *hybrids |
| 05:52.03 | Tene | mheath: what do you think a human-animal hybrid is? |
| 05:52.04 | fozzmoo | I don't get it, really? |
| 05:52.15 | *** join/#utah JoshH (i=josh@josh.xmission.com) |
| 05:52.18 | fozzmoo | Doesn't he want the US to be the first country with soliders that have gecko hands? |
| 05:52.18 | maquis | i saw a rather disturbing article on human-animal hybrids last year |
| 05:52.18 | Tene | animal with human DNA mixed in |
| 05:52.20 | mheath | Tene: artificial mating of humans and animals. |
| 05:52.37 | fozzmoo | Or marines with webbed feet? |
| 05:52.41 | fozzmoo | I mean, come on, that'd be cool! |
| 05:52.42 | Tene | mheath: mating won't make anything other than messy |
| 05:52.50 | *** join/#utah lukfugl|work (n=lukfugl@lukfugl.fttp.xmission.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:52.52 | fozzmoo | That's what my wife says. |
| 05:52.52 | mheath | fozzmoo: Seal SEALS! |
| 05:52.56 | Tene | heh |
| 05:53.15 | Tene | "hybrid" is made by "genetic modification" |
| 05:53.21 | Tene | mixing together human dna and animal dna |
| 05:53.27 | Tene | just like cows that make human insulin |
| 05:53.47 | mheath | Hmm |
| 05:54.07 | mheath | If I'm going to a high end restraunt, very expensive... |
| 05:54.12 | mheath | And I call ahead... |
| 05:54.20 | Tene | they'll serve minotaurs! |
| 05:54.48 | maquis | genetically engineering mice to produce human sperm and eggs, then doing in vitro fertilization to produce a child whose parents are a pair of mice. |
| 05:55.07 | maquis | what if something goes wrong? |
| 05:55.10 | mheath | Do you think they'd be able to offer me some options for deserts, if they're menu is filled with things with dairy products and my date is lactose intolerant? |
| 05:55.21 | fozzmoo | maquis: Like, the introduction of Mickey Mouse? |
| 05:55.31 | mheath | *desserts |
| 05:55.34 | fozzmoo | Actually, most human insuline today is produced by bacteria... |
| 05:55.45 | maquis | fozzmoo: yeah... like that |
| 05:55.52 | fozzmoo | which have failed to be recognized by most courts as animals. |
| 05:55.56 | fozzmoo | Poor things. |
| 05:55.58 | maquis | mheath: i'm sure they'll have something available |
| 05:56.17 | maquis | do the pills not work for her? (last year, half my roommates were lactose intolerant) |
| 05:56.24 | mheath | I'm sitting and wondering why I paid $300 for it. |
| 05:56.34 | mheath | maquis: There's pills? O.o |
| 05:56.44 | levi | mheath: I kind of regret my class ring, too. They're way overpriced. |
| 05:56.54 | mheath | I got a cheap one, too |
| 05:56.54 | maquis | mheath: yeah... i didn't know that until last year |
| 05:56.56 | fozzmoo | I never felt that strongly about school. |
| 05:57.01 | fozzmoo | Didn't want a reminder. |
| 05:57.03 | mheath | Very little on it is of real value. |
| 05:57.03 | maquis | unfortunately, they don't work for everyone, or for every situation |
| 05:57.15 | levi | mheath: I mean, they're not high quality gold and they typically have a cheap fake stone. |
| 05:57.24 | mheath | Mine is silver. |
| 05:57.45 | mheath | levi: They are neat keepsakes for your descendants, though. |
| 05:57.48 | fozzmoo | They're really rfid tags used by the guv'ment. |
| 05:57.54 | mheath | We have my great-grandfathers class ring. |
| 05:57.57 | mheath | I find that kind of neat. |
| 05:58.21 | mheath | If I had the money, I was going to get a customized version of his. Matching. |
| 05:58.26 | levi | I have a letter jacket that I haven't worn since I graduated. |
| 05:58.33 | mheath | For what? |
| 05:58.44 | fozzmoo | I letter'd in stage crew. |
| 05:58.46 | levi | Band, I think. And maybe academics, too. |
| 05:58.46 | fozzmoo | Pretty lame. |
| 05:58.53 | mheath | Ah. |
| 05:58.59 | mheath | Hey, question |
| 05:59.05 | mheath | What kind of shoes do you wear with a tuxedo? |
| 05:59.06 | levi | But it was the thing to do at my school, so I got it anyway. |
| 05:59.14 | mheath | That is, what do the tuxedo rental places rent to you? |
| 05:59.15 | fozzmoo | shiny. |
| 05:59.29 | mheath | Just lower quarter corfams? |
| 05:59.43 | fozzmoo | okay, dude, you're talkin some fancy talk. |
| 05:59.45 | levi | They typically have a couple of different styles. |
| 05:59.58 | mheath | fozzmoo: the side effects of wearing a military uniform |
| 06:00.01 | fozzmoo | I just call em "dress shoes" or "sunday shoes." |
| 06:00.04 | mheath | corfams == fake shiny |
| 06:00.09 | mheath | Plastic coated, basically |
| 06:00.14 | mheath | So you don't have to use shoe polish |
| 06:00.22 | mheath | Very, very shiny, but ruined if you get them too scuffed up. |
| 06:00.31 | fozzmoo | Sounds like shoes to wear with a tux. |
| 06:00.47 | levi | They're typically patent leather. |
| 06:00.47 | mheath | low quarter == a specific style of shoe. |
| 06:00.55 | mheath | levi: corfam is a type of patent leather |
| 06:01.05 | mheath | patent leather just implies fake leater. corfam is shiny patent leather. |
| 06:01.09 | mheath | *leather |
| 06:01.43 | levi | Patent leather isn't necessarily fake, it's just got a hard finish on it. |
| 06:01.55 | mheath | I'm thinking that when I rent my tux, I won't rent the shoes |
| 06:02.08 | mheath | I'll just wear my shoes from my dress uniform. |
| 06:02.09 | maquis | patent leather means it's shiny... |
| 06:02.24 | maquis | doesn't necessarily mean it's fake, though |
| 06:02.26 | levi | If you've got military dress shoes, those will most likely be fine. |
| 06:02.40 | mheath | *Shrug* maybe you guys are right |
| 06:02.59 | mheath | All I know is I've been around a lot of military people, lots of whom own them, and all I've ever heard them called is corfams. |
| 06:03.27 | fozzmoo | corfams sounds like something you put IN a shoe. |
| 06:03.33 | fozzmoo | Not a shoe itself. |
| 06:03.43 | levi | The dictionaries I've consulted say that patent leather is black leather finished to a hard, glossy surface, so named because the process used to be patented. |
| 06:04.00 | fozzmoo | "These shoes hurt!" "Did you slip some corfams into them?" "Oh, I hadn't thought of that." |
| 06:04.10 | mheath | fozzmoo: Fake shinyness. I'm sure of the definition of the term :) |
| 06:04.42 | levi | So, corfam is actually fake leather. Invented by DuPont. |
| 06:04.44 | mheath | My dress shoes are real leather, though. |
| 06:04.57 | fozzmoo | naugahide! |
| 06:05.04 | mheath | I don't cheat like a lot of military guys ;-) |
| 06:05.07 | levi | They are probably patent leather, then. |
| 06:05.13 | mheath | levi: No. |
| 06:05.17 | RyanE_ | egg naugahide :) |
| 06:05.19 | mheath | They are not finished in a hard service. |
| 06:05.24 | mheath | surface |
| 06:05.25 | mheath | bah |
| 06:05.34 | mheath | phonetic spellings. Why do I do that?! |
| 06:05.40 | fozzmoo | Dyslexic? |
| 06:05.47 | Tene | that's how you pronounce "surface"? |
| 06:05.48 | maquis | patent leather |
| 06:05.48 | maquis | n. |
| 06:05.48 | maquis | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:06.04 | mheath | My shoes are natural leather. |
| 06:06.06 | fozzmoo | My nephew is dyslexic and he likes to spell things the way they sound. |
| 06:06.19 | mheath | When I got them, they came with a temporary finish which I completely removed using rubbing alcohol. |
| 06:06.24 | mheath | Adding some leather lotion |
| 06:06.26 | levi | Apparently DuPont spent millions of dollars marketing Corfam, and they totally bombed, so they withdrew it from the market in '71 and sold the rights to a company in Poland. |
| 06:06.42 | mheath | And set to work on polishing them up :) |
| 06:06.43 | fozzmoo | Things you learn. |
| 06:06.54 | mheath | Now they're so shiny you could use them to shave. |
| 06:07.03 | fozzmoo | I'd just use a razor. |
| 06:07.12 | maquis | my friend was tutoring some preschoolers, and one of the girls was trying to sound out the word "Sam". She started saying each sound alone, "sss" "aaa" "mmm", but when she put it together, she said "mass" |
| 06:07.13 | levi | mheath: Real patent leather is natural leather, too. But I trust you that yours are not. |
| 06:07.26 | levi | (not patent leather, I mean) |
| 06:07.42 | mheath | It has a hard surface. |
| 06:07.47 | mheath | Mine do not. |
| 06:08.00 | mheath | It's stiff leather |
| 06:08.08 | maquis | my experience with patent leather is that it wasn't actually hard... |
| 06:08.16 | fozzmoo | "Like my grandma's back!" |
| 06:09.14 | fozzmoo | Wow. thirsty people feel more pain. Who woulda thunk? |
| 06:09.19 | levi | The original patent leather had a linseed oil-based laquer coating, but modern patent leather is usually plastic-coated. |
| 06:09.21 | maquis | fozzmoo: ?? |
| 06:09.34 | fozzmoo | I guess the real question is, why did this merit being slashdotted? |
| 06:10.16 | levi | So, I got some junk mail today advertising 'hexagonal water'. |
| 06:10.27 | maquis | levi: ooh... that's cool |
| 06:10.32 | maquis | how'd they do that? |
| 06:10.36 | fozzmoo | magnets. |
| 06:11.50 | fozzmoo | Oooh. Just got this mail in my xmission mailbox: Subject: Did you know 67% of women are not happy with you |
| 06:12.11 | levi | maquis: Well, they didn't, but they'll sell you a $500 device that they say will make it for you. |
| 06:12.15 | fozzmoo | It's a shame. I've only been with 67% of women. |
| 06:12.43 | fozzmoo | you know, back in the day. |
| 06:12.45 | fozzmoo | ;-) |
| 06:13.17 | mheath | ~lart Thunderbird junk detection |
| 06:13.24 | levi | Though I think there's a local company that pretends to do something similar with magnets, this one used 'powerful vortex action' and some lump of minerals. |
| 06:13.37 | maquis | interesting |
| 06:13.54 | fozzmoo | Alright. I'm going to try to do some work now. |
| 06:14.21 | levi | maquis: Totally bogus, of course. |
| 06:15.13 | maquis | levi: of course... but an interesting spam message, at least |
| 06:15.21 | maquis | i appreciate it when they at least make them interesting |
| 06:15.28 | levi | maquis: This was actual physical junk mail. |
| 06:15.36 | maquis | levi: oh... really? |
| 06:15.37 | maquis | wow |
| 06:15.48 | fozzmoo | snail spam. |
| 06:15.51 | maquis | did they have a picture of hexagonal water? |
| 06:15.59 | levi | maquis: Those disgusting VitaMix people sold my name to other companies. |
| 06:16.12 | levi | maquis: They had a picture of a snowflake. |
| 06:16.32 | maquis | maybe the device makes snow! |
| 06:16.35 | mheath | Bah |
| 06:16.36 | levi | Which is, of course, hexagonal in shape. So it must have a single piece of hexagonal water at its core, right? |
| 06:16.37 | mheath | you guys have no idea |
| 06:16.55 | mheath | You're not a highschool student when the military is falling behind in recruitment. |
| 06:17.19 | *** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@166.70.238.250) |
| 06:17.33 | levi | maquis: I'm sure there are TONS of people that waste hundreds of dollars on crap like this. |
| 06:18.05 | maquis | levi: true... but if it can make it snow.... |
| 06:18.08 | maquis | :) |
| 06:18.12 | findlay | levi: don't believe them, they're all nuts |
| 06:19.13 | levi | maquis: Here's a good debunking page on it: http://www.chem1.com/CQ/clusqk.html |
| 06:19.14 | brac | [Structured Water Pseudoscience and Quackery] |
| 06:19.29 | findlay | nice <title> |
| 06:19.43 | RyanE_ | of course, water is pre-structured. |
| 06:19.54 | RyanE_ | sort of an H2O structure, actually. |
| 06:20.00 | maquis | levi: i want snow |
| 06:20.09 | RyanE_ | maquis: go outside |
| 06:20.13 | fozzmoo | hydrogen dioxide. It kills hundreds, thousands each day. |
| 06:20.15 | RyanE_ | or are you not in UT. |
| 06:20.16 | maquis | RyanE_: it melted |
| 06:20.22 | RyanE_ | not up here. |
| 06:20.25 | RyanE_ | a little slushy |
| 06:20.32 | fozzmoo | RyanE_: Yat? |
| 06:20.33 | levi | maquis: Here's the kooks that junk-mailed me: http://www.aquatechnology.net/hexagonalwater.html |
| 06:20.34 | maquis | it was really warm today |
| 06:20.34 | brac | [Hexagonal Water, Hexagonal Water Crystals, Hexagonal Water Production] |
| 06:21.09 | maquis | hmmm |
| 06:21.15 | *** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@166.70.238.250) |
| 06:21.27 | findlay | levi: I thought it was octagonal. Must have been different quacks I guess. |
| 06:21.34 | maquis | a hydrogen bonding to two oxygens... |
| 06:21.40 | maquis | somehow, i didn't think that worked |
| 06:21.43 | RyanE_ | findlay: depends on which magnets you use. |
| 06:21.59 | RyanE_ | the 6-sided or the 8-sided. |
| 06:22.14 | findlay | I only have monopole magnets here |
| 06:22.19 | maquis | The amount of Hexagonal Water in the body has been correlated with aging. |
| 06:22.32 | *** part/#utah colera (n=colera@158.91.203.5) |
| 06:22.42 | maquis | It has also been found to form the initial layer of water surrounding healthy cells. |
| 06:23.12 | findlay | yeah right. The most anyone has learned about aging recently was Henry Eyering. |
| 06:23.52 | maquis | "...cells surrounded by less structured water are weaker and more prone to malfunction and genetic mutation." |
| 06:24.11 | maquis | this rocks! and people believe this? |
| 06:24.26 | maquis | (i'm still mad it's not making snow) |
| 06:25.38 | levi | maquis: I'll bet if I showed it to my father in law, he'd buy one. |
| 06:25.55 | maquis | levi: don't say that too loud if your wife's around :) |
| 06:25.56 | findlay | reminds me when I was in 10th grade my history teacher put in a video unprefaced that purported itself a documentary by people who believed the earth was flat |
| 06:26.04 | levi | maquis: Oh, she'd agree with me. |
| 06:26.05 | maquis | wow... that was an interesting scream... |
| 06:26.22 | maquis | ooh... the flat earth society? |
| 06:26.28 | findlay | you heard it too? |
| 06:26.39 | findlay | maquis: yeah, it was great |
| 06:26.45 | maquis | ok... you know how in elementary school, they teach you that before colombus, everybody thought the earh was flat? |
| 06:26.57 | maquis | we learned in civ last year that people didn't think that |
| 06:27.03 | levi | maquis: Yeah, that's indeed a lie. |
| 06:27.06 | maquis | that totally destroyed my world view |
| 06:27.12 | levi | maquis: One of the many lies of school. |
| 06:27.20 | maquis | we were taught that in elementary, middle and high school |
| 06:27.29 | maquis | and then i find out in my senior year of college that it's a big lie |
| 06:27.37 | findlay | the best part was after it ended, the teacher got up and said "So, you thought nobody thought the earth was flat anymore/" |
| 06:27.41 | findlay | ? |
| 06:27.55 | maquis | and then they said that santa and the easter button are lies! |
| 06:28.14 | maquis | bunny |
| 06:28.43 | findlay | the easter button is a lie! |
| 06:29.06 | fozzmoo | There is no Easter Button?! |
| 06:29.09 | levi | Humans in general are far less enlightened than they would like to think. |
| 06:29.28 | findlay | levi: it's sad to discover |
| 06:29.47 | maquis | but... what about the tooth fairy? |
| 06:29.52 | levi | o/~ Everything you know is wrong! Up is down, black is white, and right is wrong... o/~ |
| 06:30.38 | findlay | I prefer Tchaikowsky |
| 06:31.01 | findlay | why isn't there a standardized romanization of Russian? |
| 06:31.25 | maquis | dunno |
| 06:31.39 | levi | Ahh, your mention of classical music reminds me that I need to look up 'The Theiving Magpie', which I heard on the radio on the way to school today. |
| 06:31.40 | maquis | there's a standardized romanization of chinese, and it's probably harder to romanize... |
| 06:32.32 | findlay | button |
| 06:32.33 | maquis | granted, the standardized romanization of chinese causes people to mispronounce a lot of chinese names because they don't know the random details about the romanization |
| 06:32.36 | levi | Er, Thieving |
| 06:32.46 | RyanE_ | findlay: the easter mutton is a lie! |
| 06:32.52 | maquis | findlay: probably the same way you got mutton/ |
| 06:32.56 | findlay | ?!!@21! |
| 06:34.10 | findlay | I was somewhat of a glutton for candy on Easter in my younger days |
| 06:34.27 | RyanE_ | that mutton-flavored stuff is to *die* for. :) |
| 06:35.01 | levi | So, I need to track down Rossini's "The Thieving Magpie" overture. |
| 06:35.14 | findlay | levi: I have two recordings |
| 06:35.29 | levi | findlay: That doesn't surprise me. :) |
| 06:35.43 | findlay | Rossini is hard to place as far as orchestras/conductors go |
| 06:35.47 | levi | I used to have one on a 10-disc collection. |
| 06:36.21 | findlay | I have the complete overtures of Rossini by ASMF/Marriner |
| 06:36.34 | findlay | it's a fun one to play too |
| 06:39.06 | findlay | very simmilar to Barber of Seville. Slow introduction, main action, introduction of theme A in octaves with firsts/violas, theme B in winds, later adorned by strings, repeat, crescendo, coda |
| 06:48.38 | maquis | ~join gubug |
| 06:48.48 | maquis | ~join #gubug |
| 06:48.55 | maquis | stupid bot |
| 06:49.00 | maquis | -join #gubug |
| 06:49.00 | brac | insufficient "join" auth (have 10, need 50) |
| 06:49.04 | findlay | ~join goober? |
| 07:28.09 | maquis | huh???? |
| 07:30.05 | maquis | ok... so, i set up a svn repository recently |
| 07:30.13 | maquis | (well... yesterday) |
| 07:30.30 | maquis | so, i've made a couple of changes, and committed all those changes |
| 07:31.14 | maquis | oh wait... |
| 07:31.20 | maquis | i guess it is kinda working right |
| 07:42.11 | maquis | the cs machine can ping my box without trouble |
| 07:47.49 | QBFreak | cause someone decided the DEVELOP branch should include EVERYTHING |
| 07:47.55 | QBFreak | at least that was my problem :) |
| 07:48.05 | maquis | huh? |
| 07:48.30 | QBFreak | well, I was checking out TWiki's DEVELOP branch, I'm sure you're checking out something else |
| 07:48.43 | QBFreak | took forever |
| 07:48.55 | maquis | i'm checking out my cs478 project that's stored in a repository on my home server |
| 07:49.01 | maquis | it's a grand total of 8 files |
| 07:49.05 | QBFreak | ah |
| 07:49.10 | QBFreak | yeah, that should be pretty snappy |
| 07:49.19 | maquis | it took a minut to ask for my password |
| 07:49.25 | QBFreak | yikes |
| 07:49.28 | QBFreak | something eating the box? |
| 07:49.41 | maquis | i didn't see anything |
| 07:49.45 | maquis | i'm going back in to find out |
| 07:50.10 | maquis | i'm the only 2 people logged in |
| 07:50.43 | QBFreak | you're two people? and here I thought I was weird... |
| 07:51.11 | QBFreak | never mind that I often tie up 5 or so shells on my hosted server... |
| 07:51.37 | maquis | haha |
| 07:52.14 | QBFreak | you'll have to forgive me if I get too weird otnight, I had sugar and I need sleep, its fun |
| 07:54.13 | maquis | i can check it out to other boxen (including some outside my local network) without any problems |
| 07:54.23 | maquis | and the cs lab machine i'm on shows 0% cpu usage |
| 07:54.41 | QBFreak | how evil |
| 07:56.18 | maquis | gah |
| 07:56.32 | maquis | i think i've got something running on a different machine on the network, and i don't know which one |
| 08:05.25 | QBFreak | hmm |
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| 12:56.33 | Lone_Wanderer | Good morning Utah! |
| 13:54.50 | Mecworks | morning! |
| 14:01.40 | Lone_Wanderer | I want to die or get a new job! |
| 14:02.11 | Lone_Wanderer | :D! |
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| 14:08.42 | elg | ~stab Lone_Wanderer |
| 14:08.47 | ibot | ACTION runs at Lone_Wanderer with an origami Swiss Army knife, and inflicts a nasty paper cut. |
| 14:38.59 | elg | anyone have a good recommendation on statistics books? |
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| 15:20.35 | edeefelt | first time on IRC, kul |
| 15:21.06 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@38.119.178.10) |
| 15:21.16 | edeefelt | hi wps |
| 15:22.16 | wps | hi |
| 15:22.49 | edeefelt | Have you been using IRC for a while? What's the diff between it and other (usually SIP based) chats? |
| 15:23.34 | wps | yes |
| 15:23.42 | wps | what is an SIP-based chat? |
| 15:24.26 | tensai | irc is where all the weirdos are |
| 15:29.56 | edeefelt | Session Initiation Protocol, common Application Layer Protocol used in Internet media (Video, VoIP, Chat etc) |
| 15:30.16 | edeefelt | I guess I belong here then. |
| 15:31.10 | wps | edeefelt: huh? |
| 15:31.49 | wps | are you referring to protocols like jabber, MSN IM, or AOL IM? |
| 15:33.16 | edeefelt | I believe AIM uses SIP, but AOL can be ultra proprietary :(, I know at least MSN and Yahoo do |
| 15:33.46 | edeefelt | I'm in VoIP, so I like to watch stack traces on the SIP port (5060). |
| 15:34.10 | edeefelt | I've noticed MSN and Yahoo use it (for messenging). It's an IETF standard. |
| 15:34.48 | edeefelt | We actaully built our entire company on Open Source Projects and Linux Servers :) |
| 15:35.14 | edeefelt | SIP is an open standard so it's pretty attractive in the messaging and VoIP arenas. |
| 15:36.12 | edeefelt | "I guess I belong here then." refers to "irc is where all the wierdos are" (answering "huh?") |
| 15:36.49 | wps | no, I was referring to "Session Initiation Protocol, common Application Layer Protocol used in Internet media (Video, VoIP, Chat etc)" |
| 15:39.27 | edeefelt | oh ok |
| 15:39.58 | edeefelt | so do flames and rants happen as often here as then do on the LUG mailing lists? |
| 15:41.32 | dataw0lf | Nah. |
| 15:41.54 | wps | anyway, to answer your question, the main difference with IRC is that instead of having a buddy list of your contacts and then initiating a one-on-one conversation… you join a channel ("chat room") where many people hang out and it is a "group chat" |
| 15:43.01 | wps | you can still have a buddy list in IRC and you can still have one-on-chats ("private"), but it is generally a different approach |
| 15:43.26 | dataw0lf | IRC networks also is formed by numerous servers. |
| 15:43.30 | dataw0lf | s/is/are |
| 15:43.37 | dataw0lf | so the FreeNode network isn't one standalone server |
| 15:43.45 | wps | true |
| 15:43.51 | dataw0lf | the IRC protocol allows multiple servers to connect to each other and give the appearance of one |
| 15:44.01 | wps | and it's also an open protocol |
| 15:44.07 | wps | so you can set up your own IRC server |
| 15:44.27 | dataw0lf | this is why you'll see a bunch of people from the same server disconnect at the same time, as a server leaves the network, the people on that particular server will obviously leave too. that's called a netsplit |
| 15:45.07 | wps | which can be entertaining to watch |
| 15:45.44 | dataw0lf | yar. |
| 15:49.08 | graphyx | edeefelt: You ever worked with the oSIP library? |
| 15:51.11 | elg | edeefelt: um, I don't know any of the major IM players that uses SIP |
| 15:53.01 | edeefelt | no, is oSIP C based? |
| 15:53.28 | edeefelt | don't do much C, mostly Python for billing, PHP for front end and MySQL for all VoIP data collection |
| 15:54.23 | edeefelt | kul, IRC is |
| 15:55.03 | elg | edeefelt: if you're a voiper, you might like to hang out in #utaug too |
| 15:56.29 | elg | I guess microsoft and yahoo are migrating to sip after all. http://www.internetnews.com/ent-news/article.php/3559261 |
| 15:56.34 | brac | [Will Microsoft, Yahoo Find IM Harmony?] |
| 15:56.44 | edeefelt | yeah, it's all in the name of "presence" integration |
| 15:56.58 | edeefelt | basically so that your boss can contact you and know where you are any time anywhere |
| 15:57.12 | edeefelt | lots of our clients are asking for it, sounds scary and cruel to me :( |
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| 15:58.09 | elg | heh. my boss can know when I'm online the day he starts using jabber |
| 15:58.16 | edeefelt | if your VoIP and IM clients are all SIP based, makes it easier for interconnection of services, nice but still a bit annoying, means less privacy unfortunately |
| 15:58.22 | elg | and if it gets out of hand, I can just hide, or cancel presence notification |
| 15:59.00 | elg | the biggest issue is going to be NAT. I'm not familiar with SIMPLE so maybe it addresses that, but most of these IM things work great behind NATs and SIP does not |
| 15:59.18 | elg | from that article I gather it's the intraserver communication that will be sip |
| 15:59.53 | edeefelt | yeah, you have to have a STUN server set up for SIP to work |
| 16:00.09 | edeefelt | we actually had to buy a pricey Session Border Controller to fix our Natting issues with SIP |
| 16:00.39 | edeefelt | but, in IPV6 (whenever that magical day happens) all natting issues go away :) |
| 16:00.42 | tensai | ~lart nat |
| 16:00.47 | edeefelt | but it may take forever to get everyone on V6 |
| 16:00.48 | elg | you need more than stun |
| 16:01.09 | edeefelt | yeah, you need more than STUN, thus the pricey SBC |
| 16:01.38 | elg | i've had good luck with openser and its mediaproxy module |
| 16:02.03 | elg | my SPA with absolutely no NAT settings enabled works great |
| 16:02.10 | edeefelt | yeah, we are currently using SER for our VoIP platform, planning to switch to openser soon |
| 16:02.37 | elg | mediaproxy probably works with ser too |
| 16:02.45 | edeefelt | I think it does |
| 16:02.49 | elg | i'm kind of torn between the two, ser and openser |
| 16:02.57 | edeefelt | doesn't it require all the RTP go thru your server though? |
| 16:03.05 | edeefelt | leave SER |
| 16:03.09 | edeefelt | openser is better supported |
| 16:03.11 | elg | yes, but you can only turn it on when it's needed |
| 16:03.13 | edeefelt | believe me |
| 16:03.26 | elg | yeah, but it's also a little more annoying. :) I did end up going with openser though |
| 16:03.52 | edeefelt | yeah, we are trying to keep costs down though, so the SBC is better for us for now (doesn't require proxying of RTP) |
| 16:04.20 | elg | you're not the end destination then? |
| 16:04.43 | elg | in our case (pstn gateway) we get the traffic anyway so it's a nobrainer |
| 16:04.50 | edeefelt | no, we just buy wholesale routes and route clients |
| 16:04.54 | edeefelt | in H323 and SIP actually |
| 16:05.28 | edeefelt | we do have one NOC where we provide a direct route to Argentina, but the AS5300s there handle everything quite nicely |
| 16:06.10 | edeefelt | so we just use several different PSTN Terminators and make them deal with the RTP, great way to keep bandwidth down until we are big enough to afford it |
| 16:07.00 | edeefelt | We run about 500 endpoints on less than 1 Mb of Bandwidth, signalling (SIP and H323) doesn't require much bandwidth. |
| 16:07.32 | edeefelt | elg: so do you offer any wholesale routes? |
| 16:08.44 | elg | i'm actually not sure what they are offering and planning to offer precisely |
| 16:09.12 | elg | i'm just doing the interesting parts. ;-) |
| 16:09.26 | edeefelt | kul |
| 16:10.04 | edeefelt | if they ever do start selling wholesale termination, let me know, we can buy a lot of minutes from them for the right price :) |
| 16:10.05 | elg | they have been around awhile doing regular phone stuff, like 800 numbers and the like |
| 16:10.15 | edeefelt | nice |
| 16:10.29 | elg | so I reckon they'll be open to the idea of wholesale |
| 16:10.40 | edeefelt | a lot of regular POTs phone companys are starting to do VoIP now |
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| 16:11.07 | edeefelt | My boss actually worked in phoone switches for almost ten years before getting in to VoIP. |
| 16:13.53 | tensai | lots of phone companies use h.323 to trunk calls, especially long distance |
| 16:14.21 | tensai | but it's scary to see how much copper wire is involved in a phone switch |
| 16:14.28 | edeefelt | which is why we still heavily use H323 for the PSTN termination |
| 16:15.07 | edeefelt | phone companies have been packet switched networks on the inside for a long time now |
| 16:15.23 | edeefelt | they will probably eventually all go to VoIP some day as well |
| 16:16.03 | edeefelt | too many VoIP companies will eventually get around them long enough to make them lose money |
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| 16:21.34 | tensai | I'm trying to understand this "packet switched networks on the inside" bit. ss7 is all about circuit switching, and most (all?) ILEC phone switches are analog nightmares. |
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| 16:22.58 | graphyx | edeefelt: Are you familiar with Jared Smith? |
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| 16:30.11 | graphyx | sjansen: Take the drug policy. Just say no. |
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| 16:30.23 | sjensen | I'm a dork |
| 16:30.28 | Jayce^ | sjansen, go with jellis, then you could have some real fun |
| 16:30.31 | sjansen | Yes, Evan, you are. |
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| 16:31.10 | elg | ~seen jsmith |
| 16:31.17 | ibot | jsmith <n=jsmith@64.0.193.161> was last seen on IRC in channel #utah, 18h 49m 46s ago, saying: 'nope'. |
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| 16:31.18 | Jayce^ | sjansen, well, you could apply the reflexive law, and go with 'even' |
| 16:31.45 | sjensen | I think emcnabb is a great guy |
| 16:31.53 | graphyx | You're just jellis! |
| 16:31.55 | jellis | sjansen: Go cry to your mama. |
| 16:32.07 | dataw0lf | hehe |
| 16:32.14 | elg | ~curse my couch |
| 16:32.16 | ibot | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, my couch ! |
| 16:32.27 | elg | oh great, even more lumpy |
| 16:32.28 | sjansen | jellis: Whatever. You're just jealous of my good looks. |
| 16:32.49 | jellis | sjansen: You couldn't code your way out of a paper bag. |
| 16:33.21 | sjansen | jellis: Talk to the hand. |
| 16:33.45 | graphyx | That reminds me of LambdaMOO |
| 16:33.56 | sjansen | ~lart graphyx |
| 16:33.57 | graphyx | They had a programming interface that anyone could play with. |
| 16:33.59 | jellis | -lart graphyx |
| 16:34.39 | graphyx | And one of the rooms was a bag that people would put you in and it would give you the text, "You couldn't program your way out of a paper bag" and would would have to write a routine to move the location tag of your character. |
| 16:34.48 | dataw0lf | I wonder how many people are not going to give Python a chance because of jellis |
| 16:34.56 | dataw0lf | it makes me want to cry |
| 16:35.03 | elg | must I do everything myself? |
| 16:35.20 | graphyx | anyone else familiar with LambdaMOO? |
| 16:35.24 | dataw0lf | graphyx: Yeas |
| 16:35.26 | dataw0lf | Yes* |
| 16:35.28 | dataw0lf | And MUDs |
| 16:35.31 | tensai | elg: yes. you're now the VP of Marketing for ruby too |
| 16:35.36 | levi | Yes. |
| 16:35.52 | elg | that's what I thought. I'll probably have to install R too |
| 16:36.00 | elg | luckily grad students have large quotas. :) |
| 16:36.39 | levi | graphyx: LambdaMOO was cool. |
| 16:36.54 | graphyx | It was. |
| 16:37.00 | graphyx | Xerox did some good stuff. |
| 16:37.32 | levi | Pavel Curtis, at Xerox, rewrote MOO, but he didn't do the original implementation. |
| 16:37.55 | graphyx | But they did maintain LambdaMOO |
| 16:38.21 | levi | And user-programmable MUDs had been around for a while beforehand. Nevertheless, LambdaMOO was quite cool. |
| 16:38.48 | levi | MicroMUSE was a cool project. |
| 16:39.10 | levi | The language wasn't nearly as nice, though. |
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| 16:39.29 | sjansen | dataw0lf: If it's any comfort, I started a what will eventually be a pretty important work project in Python a couple of days ago. |
| 16:39.36 | graphyx | I still laugh at the part where LambdaMOO was included in an "ethic" chapter of the book for CS 404. |
| 16:39.46 | graphyx | an "online" rape scenario. |
| 16:39.59 | dataw0lf | sjansen: Alright. Hopefully you shall sway into the fold. |
| 16:40.06 | dataw0lf | sjansen: What kind of project? |
| 16:40.21 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf, this is sjansen.. do you really want him? |
| 16:41.02 | levi | dataw0lf: I like Python and use it occasionally, though I'm not terribly proficient with it. |
| 16:41.11 | dataw0lf | Jayce^: hm. True. |
| 16:41.24 | dataw0lf | levi: I've been using it upwards of 4 years now, and I heart it. |
| 16:41.39 | dataw0lf | it takes a bit getting used to, but, hey, so do most other languages. |
| 16:41.52 | levi | dataw0lf: I like it precisely because I can use it without being very proficient, and perl never worked that way for me. |
| 16:42.12 | dataw0lf | levi: same here. |
| 16:42.30 | dataw0lf | I used Perl for two years or so as my primary 'lightweight' language, but found Python and fell in love. |
| 16:42.37 | dataw0lf | I just think that mastering Perl is... nearly impossible. |
| 16:42.54 | graphyx | There is some truth to that. |
| 16:42.59 | levi | These days, I do my coding for fun in Scheme and Common Lisp, because I actually enjoy it. :) |
| 16:43.11 | dataw0lf | there are so many ways of doing things in Perl, that you can't say this is the 'One Right Way' |
| 16:43.14 | dataw0lf | In Python, you can. |
| 16:43.16 | levi | I haven't tried to master perl, so I don't really have an opinion on that. |
| 16:43.17 | graphyx | I have been scripting in perl for a while and everytime I do something I have to write little things to make sure my syntax and code is doing what I think it is doing. |
| 16:43.25 | dataw0lf | And the simplest answer is often the best answer, which is, for obvious reasons, great. |
| 16:44.25 | goozbach | buhahaha! |
| 16:44.28 | goozbach | cheese |
| 16:44.30 | goozbach | and ham |
| 16:44.35 | goozbach | and a crossant |
| 16:44.35 | dataw0lf | levi: I can't really say I 'tried to master it'. But after using it for a couple years I still didn't know 1% of the language, and I was always questioning my approach to a particular programming problem. |
| 16:44.40 | sjansen | dataw0lf: Probably not. Python's okay, but the whole time I'm using it I keep thinking how much cleaner Ruby is. |
| 16:44.52 | dataw0lf | sjansen: Ah, see, I'm the exact opposite. |
| 16:45.11 | levi | dataw0lf: One thing I don't like about Python is all the __names__ you have to use. |
| 16:45.19 | maquis | goozbach: i want a croissant! |
| 16:45.21 | dataw0lf | Ruby to me seems like OOP Perl done right. Which still rubs me the wrong way. |
| 16:45.43 | dataw0lf | levi: Yea, I've found that annoying at times, but I've become accustomed to it. |
| 16:46.22 | sjansen | dataw0lf: I'm working on a unified interface to a in-house publishing framework built on TeX. It's going to be experiencing some pretty big changes over the next year, so it needs to be pretty modular. |
| 16:46.38 | levi | Ruby seems to me like Smalltalk done as a scripting language with a few bizarre wrenches thrown in. |
| 16:46.48 | *** part/#utah phinux (n=phinux@iocane.cs.byu.edu) |
| 16:47.05 | sjansen | The thing that bugs me about Python is that it's so close to being perfect. |
| 16:47.15 | dataw0lf | close enough for me! |
| 16:47.38 | levi | sjansen: You are referring to the weird broken closures? |
| 16:47.44 | sjansen | The thing that most annoying to me is that something are builtin functions while others are object methods. |
| 16:48.01 | sjansen | filter(function, array) but array.sort() |
| 16:48.30 | sjansen | Whereas with Ruby, if I want to do something to an array, I just check the Array's methods. |
| 16:48.55 | dataw0lf | see, I love that about Python. |
| 16:49.02 | dataw0lf | Python hasn't said 'OOP is the only way to go' |
| 16:49.24 | dataw0lf | Python says, 'ok, we'll take this from OOP, it works well. Oh, and let's grab this from Haskell. Throw in some functional programming, that's always good.' |
| 16:49.33 | sjansen | Python is almost functional like lisp, which can be useful, but if you push it to the limits you'll discover that it's bolted on instead of properly integrated. |
| 16:49.43 | dataw0lf | I really dislike languages that will force you into a programming paradigm at the expense of the programmer. ala Java |
| 16:50.12 | sjansen | Ruby doesn't force me to do OO. It just organizes it's methods so that they're easy to find. |
| 16:50.28 | dataw0lf | sjansen: Which doesn't bother me (the bolted on feel). |
| 16:51.12 | levi | One of the things I like about Common Lisp is that you can mold it to support just about any programming paradigm you please, and it still all feels consistent. |
| 16:51.28 | dataw0lf | yea, I love that about clisp. |
| 16:51.37 | dataw0lf | you can pretty much do anything well in Lisp. |
| 16:52.10 | sjansen | And I love its minimal syntax. Putting colons after if statements is driving me crazy. I'm dying for an unless instead of an if not. It's just a million little things where python seems more dogmatic than ruby. |
| 16:52.56 | levi | A lot of research on new paradigms goes on in Lisp since it's easy to extend to support them without having to hack a language compiler or runtime system. |
| 16:52.59 | sjansen | Assuming you (embrace 'parentheses) |
| 16:53.31 | dataw0lf | sjansen: We differ there. Python's syntax to me is so clean I find myself thinking completely in when pondering the solution to any programming problem. |
| 16:53.43 | dataw0lf | in it* |
| 16:54.06 | levi | sjansen: Indeed, there is that hurdle, but I find it a small one. |
| 16:54.31 | levi | sjansen: I've been looking at SML code lately and I can't help but think that it'd be a lot easier to follow with lots of parentheses. ;) |
| 16:54.36 | sjansen | Me too. I just find it funny how much whining about lisps (elegent) syntax takes place. |
| 16:54.53 | dataw0lf | who whines about Lisp's syntax? |
| 16:55.04 | *** join/#utah Uncle_Jesse (n=jstay@166.70.183.108) |
| 16:55.15 | sjansen | Well, for starters, Uncle_Jesse. ;-) |
| 16:55.22 | dataw0lf | haha |
| 16:55.55 | Uncle_Jesse | sjansen would know, too |
| 16:55.56 | sjansen | Actually for starters, most students in BYU's Scheme class. |
| 16:56.25 | levi | For an amusing presentation on the power of Scheme, this is really good: http://technetcast.ddj.com/tnc_play_stream.html?stream_id=644 |
| 16:56.27 | brac | [TechNetCast Play] |
| 16:56.27 | sjansen | And IIRC, Linus Torvalds compared lisp to toe nail clippings. |
| 16:56.48 | levi | Someone compared it to oatmeal with toenail clippings. |
| 16:57.05 | dataw0lf | heh |
| 16:57.12 | dataw0lf | I love Lisp's sytanx |
| 16:57.14 | dataw0lf | syntax* |
| 16:57.51 | dataw0lf | I dunno, it makes complete and utter sense to me. |
| 16:57.56 | levi | In the presentation, Shriram creates a simple DSL to write state machines. |
| 16:58.14 | dataw0lf | I'm downloading right now |
| 16:58.45 | sjansen | The mp3 is broken, but the m3u works. |
| 16:58.54 | levi | Hmm, weird. |
| 17:01.22 | sjansen | ~hug DrScheme |
| 17:01.24 | ibot | ACTION hugs DrScheme |
| 17:02.28 | graphyx | I used DrScheme myself. |
| 17:02.48 | graphyx | and now I've lost weight, girls adore me, and I'm never been happier in years. |
| 17:03.09 | goozbach | never thought I'd say this... |
| 17:03.16 | goozbach | I wanna learn MySQL |
| 17:03.39 | goozbach | if only because of the instructor for the MySQL class |
| 17:03.42 | sjansen | ~slap goozbach |
| 17:03.44 | ibot | ACTION slaps goozbach, keep your grubby fingers to yourself! |
| 17:03.59 | goozbach | sjansen: a HOT geek girl? |
| 17:04.23 | sjansen | ah, well, in that case... |
| 17:04.37 | Jayce^ | goozbach, like that has any effect on sjansen |
| 17:07.04 | edeefelt | graphyx: sorry was away for a while, need to start using "away" function |
| 17:07.20 | edeefelt | graphyx: yeah heard of him, I'm planning to go to the next * meeting |
| 17:09.57 | graphyx | Or you can just chat him in here. He usually hangs out here. |
| 17:10.49 | elg | edeefelt: nobody cares about away. we just figure if you're gone that someone mugged you |
| 17:10.50 | dataw0lf | where's this MySQL instructor located at? |
| 17:10.54 | dataw0lf | *ahem* |
| 17:11.02 | dataw0lf | I wouldn't mind, um, learning MySQL either. |
| 17:11.24 | graphyx | Just do a query, Select * from instructors where desc = 'HOT!!!'; |
| 17:11.53 | dataw0lf | 0 rows returned; |
| 17:12.04 | graphyx | You apparently have the wrong database. |
| 17:12.32 | dataw0lf | see, that's what I need to know. |
| 17:12.40 | dataw0lf | which database to query from. |
| 17:12.59 | graphyx | Hack goozbach's server and download his databse. |
| 17:13.05 | graphyx | s/databse/database/ |
| 17:13.08 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 17:13.57 | dataw0lf | that's neat, I didn't know ibot did that. |
| 17:14.04 | dataw0lf | s/that/That/ |
| 17:14.09 | graphyx | I think it's a recent addition. |
| 17:14.16 | dataw0lf | something else else |
| 17:14.21 | dataw0lf | s/else/test/g |
| 17:14.25 | dataw0lf | coolio |
| 17:14.34 | graphyx | s/coolio/cool/ |
| 17:14.50 | graphyx | I guess you can only correct your own stuff. |
| 17:14.54 | dataw0lf | that's slick |
| 17:14.59 | dataw0lf | sjansen: checking plane tickets... |
| 17:15.00 | dataw0lf | ;) |
| 17:15.20 | graphyx | Anyone know if ibot's s/// supports full regexp? |
| 17:15.59 | dataw0lf | Blah |
| 17:16.05 | dataw0lf | s/^Bla/Me |
| 17:16.08 | dataw0lf | s/^Bla/Me/ |
| 17:16.13 | maquis | hmmm |
| 17:16.19 | graphyx | That's funny. |
| 17:16.25 | graphyx | Blah |
| 17:16.25 | maquis | dilbert is so true today |
| 17:16.31 | graphyx | s/^Bla/me/ |
| 17:16.41 | dataw0lf | doesn't look like it. |
| 17:16.42 | graphyx | I really did like Dilbert today. |
| 17:16.50 | graphyx | I was thinking of posting that one in my cube. |
| 17:16.56 | dataw0lf | ooh |
| 17:17.00 | *** join/#utah mheath|2 (n=cgi_irc@sourpuss.net) |
| 17:17.13 | maquis | graphyx: yeah.... i need to stick that someplace to remind people... |
| 17:17.20 | mheath|2 | Heh, I'm sitting next to Linspire's CEO's son. |
| 17:17.33 | mheath|2 | I thought he was joking |
| 17:17.43 | graphyx | mheath|2: Be sure to set him straight, ok? |
| 17:17.52 | mheath|2 | Indeed. |
| 17:18.00 | graphyx | Give him some better Linspiration to work on. |
| 17:18.00 | mheath|2 | He doesn't know a thing about Linux, actually. |
| 17:18.15 | mheath|2 | He runs linspire on a laptop his dad gave him, but thats it. |
| 17:18.16 | dataw0lf | like father like son, eh? |
| 17:18.26 | graphyx | dataw0lf: That is what I was thinking.. |
| 17:18.30 | dataw0lf | :D |
| 17:18.40 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 17:19.42 | edeefelt | postgresql and oracle are truer RDBMS and SQL servers, but MySQL is waaay more supported by open source projects |
| 17:21.25 | dataw0lf | um thanks. |
| 17:22.44 | *** join/#utah herlo (n=csavage@198.252.209.77) |
| 17:23.23 | graphyx | herlo: Wow, you are here. welcome welcome. |
| 17:23.36 | graphyx | doesn't look like lars is over his hangover yet. |
| 17:24.12 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 17:24.30 | sjansen | http://www.interfacett.com/ <-- I'm going to be teaching here next week. |
| 17:24.50 | sjansen | 7 of 9 listed instructors have facial hair, but all are Microsoft certified something. |
| 17:25.11 | maquis | sjansen: ooh... cool! |
| 17:26.41 | sjansen | Will there be a rumble in Phoenix? Or will sjansen learn new beard trimming techniques? Will sjansen be allowed to hack a system while hanging from the ceiling? Tune in next weekt to find out. |
| 17:27.33 | maquis | mmm... white-hat/black-hat security... |
| 17:29.14 | dataw0lf | mmm indeed |
| 17:29.44 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 17:29.48 | dataw0lf | http://70.86.201.113/imageserv2/temporary/PBF088ADWorldChampion.html |
| 17:29.49 | brac | [randomized PBF comic strip] |
| 17:31.46 | herlo | graphyx: hello |
| 17:32.13 | herlo | graphix? are you a Klinger by chance? |
| 17:35.15 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 17:35.49 | sjansen | Jayce^: Cool blog post. |
| 17:35.55 | Jayce^ | which? |
| 17:36.51 | *** join/#utah RyanE_ (n=ryan@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 17:36.54 | sjansen | the most recent about kitchen organization |
| 17:37.13 | Jayce^ | ah, yeah.. fun |
| 17:37.36 | Jayce^ | it'll fit perfect with the setup I have |
| 17:38.13 | *** join/#utah bzob (n=bzobrist@nat.myfamilyinc.com) |
| 17:38.15 | sjansen | (Although I also think the political cartoon should be printed in the millions and air dropped over Muslim nations.) |
| 17:38.35 | Jayce^ | cox & forkum has some fun ones |
| 17:39.05 | levi | Jayce^: What is your blog URL? |
| 17:39.35 | levi | I found some 22 year old SLC lesbian's blog searching for Jayce, but not yours. |
| 17:39.40 | Jayce^ | halls.lug-nut.com (family) /jayce for mine |
| 17:39.45 | Jayce^ | heh, great :) |
| 17:39.56 | Jayce^ | just started one up again last month, so doesn't have all my old fun stuff |
| 17:40.35 | levi | What's Agave Blog? Did you write it? |
| 17:40.47 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 17:41.03 | Jayce^ | it's a catalyst project that just started... was new enough I decided to try out Catalyst with it.. |
| 17:41.14 | Jayce^ | started extending it, got a *lot* to do still |
| 17:42.11 | Jayce^ | has some niftyness though... |
| 17:43.11 | Jayce^ | wrapping my head around DBIx::Class now, which it uses... fixes a lot of the issues that existed with Class::DBI |
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| 17:45.08 | *** part/#utah Peaceful (n=Peaceful@67.50.46.118) |
| 17:47.43 | levi | I'm not convinced that database backends are the best fit for blog entry storage, but at least they do work fairly well. |
| 17:48.52 | Jayce^ | yeah, I like file ones normally, but I'm having fun with this.. |
| 17:49.19 | Jayce^ | one thing I do like, is they make it use Textile (via Text::Textile).. very handy for this type of application |
| 17:49.31 | levi | I like Markdown better than Textile. |
| 17:49.55 | levi | I'm working on a Markdown implementation in Common Lisp for my blog, but it's going slowly these days. |
| 17:51.16 | Jayce^ | what do you like better... I've just glanced at both, and went more towards textile because of a better perl package |
| 17:52.17 | levi | Markdown is almost exactly how I already format plain text documents. It's very readable in source form, and I like the footnote-style link notation. |
| 17:53.26 | Jayce^ | hrm, sri updated his Markdown package since I last looked.. |
| 17:54.18 | levi | When I write out a blog entry, I like to have the text flow cleanly in the editor and fill in the links later. With footnote-style links, I don't have to do a bunch of cursor movement to insert the links, I just stick them at the bottom. |
| 17:54.46 | Jayce^ | last I saw it, there was just the blosxom and MT usages, which I didn't like quite as much (at least api-wise) |
| 17:55.07 | Jayce^ | Textile allows that too (which I also like) |
| 17:56.05 | levi | Ahh, okay, I didn't remember that from when I tried it. |
| 17:56.24 | levi | I just found Markdown more aesthetically pleasing in source format, I guess, and closer to my current habits. |
| 17:58.25 | levi | Jayce^: This is the blog served by the software I wrote: http://www.lifeoflevi.com/blog/ |
| 17:59.15 | Jayce^ | yeah, subbed to it a while back |
| 17:59.38 | Jayce^ | you should add a meta tag to the xml though... let's the browsers pick up on the feed automagically |
| 17:59.58 | sjansen | Catalyst is the most rad framework out there, totaly dope, kthx! -- Artur Bergman |
| 18:00.00 | levi | I should, but I haven't had much time to hack on it lately. |
| 18:00.04 | Lone_Wanderer | Weird non-computer related question |
| 18:00.32 | Lone_Wanderer | does a nation have the right to wage war on a weaker nation to protect it's economic interests? |
| 18:01.33 | graphyx | If ability to survive is included in economic interests, why not? |
| 18:01.47 | graphyx | The old time dutch trading company would lay siege to nations to get sole trading rights. |
| 18:02.04 | graphyx | The nations then certainly did have rights to fight back. |
| 18:04.43 | sjansen | Lone_Wanderer is a cross-dressing commie pinko tree hugging pacifict thumb sucker! |
| 18:05.50 | Lone_Wanderer | Ya got me. |
| 18:06.34 | levi | Ew, I just came across a blog entry describing a guy who jammed his fingernail, then drilled a hole in it to relieve the pressure. |
| 18:06.56 | neybar_work | yikes |
| 18:07.15 | graphyx | levi: did it work? |
| 18:07.22 | levi | graphyx: Yes. |
| 18:07.57 | levi | Drilling holes in onesself is not a pleasant thing to consider. |
| 18:07.58 | Lone_Wanderer | a painful experience, sure |
| 18:08.16 | Lone_Wanderer | I clip my fingernails regularly |
| 18:08.38 | Lone_Wanderer | drilling a little hole in one wouldn't be much worse |
| 18:10.14 | elg | Lone_Wanderer: have you never clipped too short? |
| 18:10.30 | Lone_Wanderer | yeah |
| 18:12.03 | Lone_Wanderer | but if he had to drill a hole in it to relieve the pressure, then there would have been a lot of blood immediately behind the nail, not tender flesh |
| 18:13.38 | Lone_Wanderer | (it happened to my scoutmaster when I was a kid. the blood was under so much pressure it squirted a couple feet when he finally got through the nail.) |
| 18:13.52 | Jayce^ | have you ever had to pull an ingrown out... |
| 18:13.54 | graphyx | hey, what is the best way to see if a drive is just scrap in linux? |
| 18:14.02 | graphyx | if you can't fdisk it, then it's toast? |
| 18:14.07 | Lone_Wanderer | yeah, my toenails get ingrown all the time |
| 18:14.29 | Lone_Wanderer | it's pretty painful, but at any given time it's less bother than having surgery |
| 18:15.35 | elg | graphyx: is that the best way? I don't know. it's a pretty good indication though. :) |
| 18:16.44 | graphyx | elg ok |
| 18:17.17 | elg | assuming you can't fdisk it because of the disk, rather than say user error or not having the right kernel module |
| 18:18.58 | graphyx | of course |
| 18:19.19 | graphyx | but we were booting off the live cd in a method that is very common for the environment, so I don't expect it would be either of those two things |
| 18:19.54 | *** join/#utah QBFreak_ (n=Cubey@cpe-069-132-229-120.carolina.res.rr.com) |
| 18:20.30 | sjansen | Just shake the drive really hard. If pixie dust floats out, the drive is toast. If you hear banging sounds, the drive is actually okay but the magic gnomes are on strike. If neither happens, keep shaking. |
| 18:23.52 | levi | Hmm, apparently PLT Scheme is getting a JIT compiler. |
| 18:25.42 | levi | Apparently implemented by mflatt@cs.utah.edu |
| 18:26.37 | Lone_Wanderer | cool |
| 18:39.57 | *** join/#utah findlay (n=justin@208.187.181.35) |
| 18:45.53 | findlay | maquis: did you mean firewalls? |
| 18:45.54 | findlay | (: |
| 18:47.07 | sjansen | maquis: Here's a happier thought. Just ponder those things crawling into people's ear canals in Wrath of Khan. |
| 18:47.26 | maquis | sjansen: erm... yup |
| 18:47.36 | maquis | ~lart findlay |
| 18:50.38 | sjansen | http://blogs.siliconvalley.com/gmsv/2006/02/could_the_fate_.html |
| 18:55.50 | maquis | sjansen: an interesting idea... |
| 19:00.34 | findlay | ~lart cvsnt |
| 19:00.58 | sjansen | What is the python equivalent of: foo = `baz branches | grep -c foo-bar-baz` |
| 19:02.58 | *** join/#utah Hhhhhh (n=Hhhhhhhh@128.187.81.240) |
| 19:05.05 | findlay | http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/archives/004343.php |
| 19:16.20 | sjansen | Answer: foo = commands.getoutput('baz branches | grep -c foo-bar-baz') |
| 19:16.59 | mrpull- | sjansen: use perl ;-) |
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| 19:18.15 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 19:18.22 | mrpull- | but more seriously, I think the preferred method is to use http://www.python.org/doc/2.4/lib/module-subprocess.html |
| 19:18.23 | brac | [6.8 subprocess -- Subprocess management] |
| 19:20.28 | sjansen | Well would you have a look at that. |
| 19:23.08 | sjansen | Uhm... does that mean I have to build my own pipes? |
| 19:25.01 | sjansen | Answer: yup |
| 19:25.28 | mrpull- | if it is quick and dirty just use the old way |
| 19:26.06 | mrpull- | shouldn't you use python libs for the shell commands if it isn't quick and dirty anyway? |
| 19:27.03 | sjansen | That depends on whether python libs can do what I need. |
| 19:28.21 | mrpull- | sjansen: i'll go back to the "use perl instead" statement from before |
| 19:29.43 | sjansen | I have reasons for choosing Python. I can see the advantages of using subprocess... but it makes things start to feel like coding in Java so I'm going to ignore it for now. |
| 19:29.53 | mrpull- | :) |
| 19:30.22 | mrpull- | i'm shouldn't have to try very hard to irritate sjansen. should i? |
| 19:30.30 | sjansen | (What do you mean it's stupid to have to writing your own filtering code? It's easy, takes only five lines, and it's The Right Thing To Do(tm).) |
| 19:31.39 | sjansen | # FIXME This should probably use subprocess instead of commands <-- heh, let someone else deal with it "some day" |
| 19:31.49 | sjansen | There, I've done my part. ;-) |
| 19:32.06 | mrpull- | nicely done |
| 19:36.28 | Lone_Wanderer | If I want to grep for the string $dir, how do I escape the $? |
| 19:36.58 | sjansen | use single quotes |
| 19:37.02 | Lone_Wanderer | k |
| 19:37.15 | Lone_Wanderer | is that in the man page somewhere? |
| 19:38.03 | Lone_Wanderer | ohhh, even better |
| 19:38.19 | tensai | or \$dir |
| 19:39.22 | Lone_Wanderer | could I grep -l '$dir' > vi |
| 19:39.28 | Lone_Wanderer | and have vi open all files with that string in it? |
| 19:41.29 | sjansen | You mean to ask if you could "grep -l '$dir' | xargs vi" and the answer is no because vi wants its stdin to be connected to a tty not a pipe. |
| 19:41.54 | sjansen | However, you can "vi $(grep -l '$dir')". |
| 19:42.32 | sjansen | Or in its less readable form "vi `grep -l '$dir'`" |
| 19:42.39 | Lone_Wanderer | I did vi `grep -l` |
| 19:42.56 | Lone_Wanderer | but then I didn't know how to get to the subsequent files in vi :) |
| 19:43.15 | sjansen | Backticks are evil. They cause mysterious rashes. Use $() instead. |
| 19:43.40 | Lone_Wanderer | okay |
| 19:43.45 | Lone_Wanderer | does the same thing? |
| 19:43.46 | sjansen | :n <-- move forward a buffer |
| 19:43.53 | mrpull- | sjansen: that is somewhat funny given your previous python question :) |
| 19:43.53 | Lone_Wanderer | cool thanks :) |
| 19:43.55 | sjansen | :N <-- move backward a buffer |
| 19:44.34 | sjansen | :wn & :wN <-- I'll let you guess. |
| 19:45.12 | Lone_Wanderer | oh cool, and it saves the search from one to the next :D |
| 19:45.21 | sjansen | There is an obscure difference between `` and $(), but I've never run into it in real world use, so I can't remember what it is. |
| 19:45.54 | goozbach | ok so compositing is sessy |
| 19:45.56 | Lone_Wanderer | ok |
| 19:46.24 | goozbach | what is this "real world" you speak of? |
| 19:46.32 | mrpull- | goozbach: is that your Chris Norton accent? |
| 19:46.47 | goozbach | fozzmoo mentioned it eariler too |
| 19:46.57 | goozbach | mrpull-: I'm very sesual |
| 19:47.02 | mrpull- | heheh |
| 19:47.14 | goozbach | la la la luuu |
| 19:48.16 | Lone_Wanderer | Here's a little gem to consider. |
| 19:48.54 | Lone_Wanderer | "awww... see life's like that... one day you might not have ANY friends or anything and the next someone rich invites you to their party and totally loves you. that's why suicide's really stupid." |
| 19:49.30 | Lone_Wanderer | I'll put that on my "Reasons to Live" list: "Might get invited to a rich person's party." |
| 19:50.06 | goozbach | I'm glad I'm not the only PHS fan in the channel |
| 19:50.27 | elg | oh the pain |
| 19:50.50 | Lone_Wanderer | who's PHS? |
| 19:51.51 | elg | well this is going to be a neat trick. |
| 19:52.09 | elg | I'm supposed to run this program on solaris, but this solaris box hasn't even got a C compiler |
| 19:52.11 | mrpull- | i miss having PHS in SLC |
| 19:52.38 | mrpull- | i sometimes rip an internet stream from a different market and listen to it on the way to work |
| 19:52.48 | mrpull- | PHS == Phil Hendrie Show |
| 19:53.13 | goozbach | www.philhendrieshow.com |
| 19:53.33 | goozbach | mrpull-: get a backstage pass |
| 19:53.33 | goozbach | and subscribe to the podcast |
| 19:53.50 | goozbach | $5.75 / six months |
| 19:54.04 | Lone_Wanderer | oh ok |
| 19:54.51 | goozbach | Lone_Wanderer: aka the greatest thing to hit talk radio since whenever |
| 19:54.58 | Lone_Wanderer | oh |
| 19:55.27 | goozbach | mrpull-: how many of the 'best-of' cds do you own? |
| 19:55.55 | mrpull- | goozbach: eeek... i haven't bought any of them |
| 19:56.12 | mrpull- | goozbach: I almost grabbed one the other day tho |
| 19:56.16 | goozbach | I've got at least one of each year |
| 19:56.24 | goozbach | they are MORE than worth it |
| 19:56.31 | goozbach | it's for charity |
| 19:56.36 | goozbach | write them off :) |
| 19:57.01 | mrpull- | goozbach: :-) i nearly bought my dad a Ted's of Beverly Hills shirt for fathers day one year |
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| 20:02.01 | mrpull- | goozbach: so what are you compositing? |
| 20:02.49 | *** join/#utah pate (n=pate@petrol.whirlycott.com) |
| 20:04.46 | pate | don't know if anyone here is interested, but there's going to be a very cool ruby meeting next week at BYU |
| 20:05.42 | goozbach | XFCE with true transparency |
| 20:05.46 | goozbach | very sessy |
| 20:05.58 | goozbach | problem is that the performance sucks |
| 20:06.47 | scottj | pate, when/where? |
| 20:09.19 | pate | scottj, 7PM, Feb 8th room 120 in the TMCB |
| 20:09.41 | pate | Eric Hodel will be presenting on deep Ruby |
| 20:10.44 | pate | http://tinyurl.com/ajbmt is a place to see the announcement |
| 20:11.21 | pate | (anyone can forward the announcement to appropriate lists/groups as desired) |
| 20:12.42 | scottj | pate: thanks |
| 20:14.30 | edeefelt | looks interesting |
| 20:15.04 | pate | edeefelt, it should be a blast. Eric really knows his stuff |
| 20:15.30 | edeefelt | what exactly is Ruby used for? I have pretty much stuck to Python, shell scripting and PHP for most stuff |
| 20:16.00 | edeefelt | does it do good back end solutions? (I use Python for billing) is it a better front end? (like web stuff) |
| 20:16.16 | scottj | is there a way to burn iso's with the built-in windows xp burning stuff? |
| 20:17.10 | pate | Ruby is comparable to python, some say better, others don't |
| 20:17.11 | levi | Ruby is good for the same sorts of things Python is good for. |
| 20:17.11 | edeefelt | scottj: I have heard there is a windows hack for it |
| 20:17.11 | edeefelt | scottj: maybe google on it |
| 20:17.15 | edeefelt | kul, will definately come by if I have the time on Wed |
| 20:17.34 | levi | Its implementation is not terribly advanced at the moment, but there's enough momentum behind it that it will probably be usable for more performance-sensitive things in the future. |
| 20:17.38 | edeefelt | scottj: not natively supported though |
| 20:18.26 | pate | gotta run for a bit ... |
| 20:18.45 | edeefelt | sounds interesting, is the syntax easier than Python? |
| 20:19.54 | levi | Not necessarily. Define 'easier'. |
| 20:20.42 | edeefelt | I guess that would be individual preference anyways. |
| 20:20.51 | edeefelt | Too hard to define that one. |
| 20:21.45 | levi | Some people find it more intuitive or more 'clean' than Python, and other people find it less so. |
| 20:22.01 | levi | I think it's a pretty decent language, though I haven't used it myself. |
| 20:22.16 | goozbach | it's a gemstone |
| 20:22.28 | goozbach | "AND WRITTEN BY A MORMON" |
| 20:23.21 | RyanE | don't even get me started on goozbach. |
| 20:23.50 | tensai | mmm. ciabatta |
| 20:24.32 | goozbach | ~goozbach |
| 20:24.38 | ibot | it has been said that goozbach is a future que-ball. easier to catch than a retarted sasquatch |
| 20:24.52 | goozbach | that's "all you need to know" |
| 20:25.54 | levi | Mmmm, ciabatta. |
| 20:26.32 | tensai | I want to get a peel. I just about destroyed my loaves trying to get them into the oven. |
| 20:27.06 | *** join/#utah drbrain (n=nnnnndrb@dsl254-021-090.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 20:27.43 | drbrain | wow, there's a ton of you people in here |
| 20:27.44 | pate | hiya drbrain |
| 20:28.16 | pate | goozbach, i couldn't tell if you thought that was positive or negative, and wondered why it would be either |
| 20:28.27 | Jayce^ | most of that ton is from harleypig |
| 20:31.23 | goozbach | pate: I'm making reference to a post to the PLUG mailing list about a week ago |
| 20:35.52 | RyanE | pate: which was a humorous appeal to authority, that we in #utah should all be using Ruby because it's creator is a Mormon. |
| 20:47.44 | tensai | Mecworks: the Bourne books are really good too. the movie does justice to them, but obviously there's much more to tell on paper. |
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| 21:05.39 | goozbach | ok now THAT's funny |
| 21:06.00 | goozbach | somebody took the stick off the 'Q' for the mySQL class |
| 21:06.20 | goozbach | so the board says mySOL class -- room 5 |
| 21:08.33 | mrpull- | hehe |
| 21:08.44 | mrpull- | goozbach: clever |
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| 21:09.27 | *** part/#utah Uncle-Jesse (n=jstay@166.70.183.108) |
| 21:09.46 | findlay | ~lament that I must be subject to OCT's incompetence |
| 21:10.17 | findlay | they not only have the corner on iProvo, but they also own the phone lines |
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| 21:13.05 | Uncle-Jesse | test |
| 21:13.19 | Uncle-Jesse | kopete has really improved over the years |
| 21:13.23 | *** part/#utah Uncle_Jesse (n=jstay@166.70.183.108) |
| 21:19.04 | Lone_Wanderer | OC Tanner? |
| 21:20.06 | sjansen | heh, my boss just discovered that the super bowl is this weekend because he can't book any hotels in the detroit area |
| 21:21.38 | levi | This is pretty cool: http://ti.arc.nasa.gov/projects/apex/projectARPMissionPlannerInterface.php |
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| 21:30.18 | goozbach | sjansen: like the time they scheculed me the same week as the world series in Chicago |
| 21:30.27 | *** join/#utah ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
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| 21:32.30 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp25.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 21:32.57 | elg | ~seen jsmith |
| 21:33.17 | ibot | jsmith <n=jsmith@64.0.193.161> was last seen on IRC in channel #utah, 23h 51m 46s ago, saying: 'nope'. |
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| 21:36.42 | dataw0lf | GNU S! |
| 21:37.12 | dataw0lf | I hate '<-' |
| 21:37.31 | elg | = works just as well. in R anywya |
| 21:37.43 | elg | at least that's my experience. don't know if there's any subtleties |
| 21:37.45 | dataw0lf | yea, it just bugs me when I see the '<-'s |
| 21:38.17 | elg | :) I see them all over the place, e.g. the Motorola DSP56300 family manual |
| 21:38.29 | elg | semantics for assembly instructions |
| 21:38.44 | dataw0lf | see, that's why it bugs me ;) |
| 21:39.23 | mheath | The guy I was talking about (Linspire's CEO's son) is going to give me a good personal e-mail for his dad |
| 21:39.25 | elg | psuedocode in the wacky psuedolanguage used in my algorithms analysis book |
| 21:39.34 | mheath | I'm going to send some comments/suggestions/ideas. |
| 21:40.15 | edeefelt | I thought pseudocode was Python (jk) |
| 21:41.19 | dataw0lf | true that |
| 21:41.24 | dataw0lf | <3 |
| 21:42.04 | dataw0lf | elg: you used CRAN? |
| 21:42.16 | elg | that's where I downloaded it, I suppose |
| 21:44.53 | elg | sigh. I'm going to really learn to hate this solaris box |
| 21:45.23 | elg | what?! csh doesn't do tab completion? |
| 21:48.15 | levi | Heh. |
| 21:48.36 | levi | Is that the only shell they have available? |
| 21:49.12 | elg | no, but it's the only shell apparently with the paths set right by default |
| 21:49.28 | elg | gcc is in /local/gcc-3.2.1/bin/gcc |
| 21:49.58 | elg | vi only, no vim. no ruby, but I'm going to build my own now that I found gcc, and no seq |
| 21:50.35 | tensai | elg: don't forget sunfreeware.com |
| 21:50.57 | levi | elg: So, do you have to use this Solaris box? |
| 21:51.21 | tensai | oh, are you not root on this machine? |
| 21:51.30 | elg | yeah, it's one of the parallel boxes |
| 21:52.02 | elg | for my parallel programming class |
| 21:52.07 | elg | no root, no |
| 21:52.27 | tensai | well sunfreeware won't help much then |
| 21:52.34 | elg | whatever odd packaging system they're using doesn't acknowledge (ba)sh |
| 21:52.37 | Lone_Wanderer | Okay, as long as we're grepping today, how about one more |
| 21:52.53 | elg | it just has cshrc.* for each package that adds stuff to the path |
| 21:53.13 | elg | so i get to make symlinks for stuff I use manually. joy |
| 21:53.18 | Lone_Wanderer | I want to grep seller_id | grep -v reseller, only at the end I only want the filenames |
| 21:53.20 | tensai | solaris is yucky |
| 21:53.33 | Lone_Wanderer | but I can't just throw a -l in there because then you can't do the second -v, see? |
| 21:53.51 | emcnabb | http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20060201.html |
| 21:53.52 | brac | [Dilbert Comic Strip Archive - Dilbert.com - The Official Dilbert Website by Scott Adams - Dilbert, Dogbert and Coworkers!] |
| 21:54.03 | Lone_Wanderer | (file names that have the string seller_id in them, but *not* reseller_id) |
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| 21:54.29 | tensai | grep -H seller_id | grep -v reseller |sed -e 's/:.*//' |
| 21:54.37 | Lone_Wanderer | oohh |
| 21:54.39 | Lone_Wanderer | what's sed? |
| 21:54.48 | Tene | stream ed |
| 21:55.00 | elg | sed is bliss |
| 21:55.19 | tensai | it's like perl, only older and not as cool |
| 21:55.21 | elg | oh look, this solaris box _does_ have sed. :) |
| 21:55.23 | Lone_Wanderer | cool |
| 21:55.34 | elg | tensai: but easier to do from the command line |
| 21:55.41 | tensai | perl -lane, baby |
| 21:55.43 | Lone_Wanderer | hmm |
| 21:55.46 | Lone_Wanderer | okay |
| 21:55.56 | elg | perl -lane, sed. hmm, let me think about which I'd rather type |
| 21:56.00 | tensai | but sed was easier to write in this case |
| 21:56.05 | Lone_Wanderer | is there any way to get only unique filenames? |
| 21:56.11 | tensai | uniq |
| 21:56.42 | tensai | grep -H seller_id | grep -v reseller |sed -e 's/:.*//' |uniq |
| 21:56.50 | Lone_Wanderer | uniq is a... ok |
| 21:56.54 | sjansen | sed is just as cool as perl, it not cooler |
| 21:56.59 | Lone_Wanderer | sweet |
| 21:57.04 | Lone_Wanderer | thanks :) |
| 21:57.20 | sjansen | Lone_Wanderer: You _really_ need to find a good shell scripting book or site or something. There are many wonders awaiting you. |
| 21:57.34 | Lone_Wanderer | cool |
| 21:57.48 | tensai | sjansen couldn't agree with somebody if a raspberry cheesecake depended on it |
| 21:58.09 | *** part/#utah pate (n=pate@petrol.whirlycott.com) |
| 21:58.26 | Lone_Wanderer | I've got a bash book |
| 21:58.33 | Lone_Wanderer | I just haven't really looked into it yet. |
| 21:58.34 | elg | no wget |
| 21:59.10 | elg | unix powertools is a good one |
| 21:59.16 | Lone_Wanderer | ok |
| 21:59.17 | elg | not a shell scripting book per se, but has most of the good tricks |
| 21:59.28 | sjansen | Lone_Wanderer: Because, of course, constantly bugging us is easier than actually doing the work yourself. |
| 21:59.46 | sjansen | Don't get me wrong, we're here to help, but don't be rude and abuse. |
| 22:00.41 | tensai | yeah, that's my job |
| 22:01.36 | Lone_Wanderer | Have I been rude and/or abused yet? |
| 22:02.47 | sjansen | You're right on the edge. |
| 22:07.23 | Lone_Wanderer | I apologize. |
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| 22:10.11 | sjansen | You're forgiven. But don't let it happen again or we'll have to revoke your Linux privileges. |
| 22:10.39 | sjansen | And if you're really bad, we'll have to send harleypig over to model some outfits for you. |
| 22:12.26 | graphyx | That's a scary thought. |
| 22:14.25 | Lone_Wanderer | chmod -linux Lone_Wanderer |
| 22:14.29 | Lone_Wanderer | ? |
| 22:15.28 | tensai | chown bill:gates Lone_Wanderer |
| 22:15.36 | Lone_Wanderer | eeeee |
| 22:16.19 | sjansen | kiwi++ |
| 22:16.33 | elg | fruit or bird? |
| 22:16.48 | Lone_Wanderer | the fruits are still around. the bird isn't. |
| 22:17.01 | tensai | or south pacific island resident |
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| 22:40.28 | scottj | could an external usb hard drive show up as scsi in ubuntu install? |
| 22:41.23 | maquis | scottj: more specific? |
| 22:41.33 | maquis | ie, do you mean could it show up as /dev/sda? |
| 22:41.40 | maquis | or... in dmesg? or where? |
| 22:42.30 | scottj | yeah |
| 22:42.39 | maquis | yeah to which? |
| 22:42.42 | scottj | like in the install of ubuntu it's showing two drives, one ide and one scsi |
| 22:42.52 | scottj | but I don't think this system has a scsi, it just has an external usb |
| 22:42.54 | sjansen | A usb hard drive will pretty much alwasy show up as /dev/sd* on Linux. |
| 22:43.01 | maquis | yeah |
| 22:43.05 | lars-ut | or uba |
| 22:43.06 | scottj | alright |
| 22:43.19 | maquis | i'm not sure about what it would show up as during the install.. |
| 22:43.25 | sjansen | Looks like eventually even IDE drives will look like SCSI on Linux. |
| 22:43.45 | lars-ut | don't forget the IDE CD-Burners |
| 22:51.21 | elg | well at least they have screen |
| 22:52.31 | tensai | lars-ut: under 2.6 that's been deprecated |
| 22:52.42 | tensai | for the cd burners, that is |
| 22:53.18 | lars-ut | on a 2.6 kernel |
| 22:54.21 | graphyx | lars did you shake off your sugar stupor? |
| 22:55.09 | graphyx | I think take moose tracks orally is the prefered method. |
| 22:55.24 | graphyx | s/take/taking/ |
| 22:56.15 | lars-ut | I'll be comin' back soon then |
| 22:56.34 | graphyx | You looking for a moose to eat? |
| 22:56.49 | lars-ut | moose? |
| 22:56.53 | herlo | mmm, moose... |
| 22:57.09 | graphyx | sure why else would you be looking for moose tracks? |
| 22:57.26 | lars-ut | ah. |
| 22:58.06 | goozbach | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:58.33 | herlo | no hitchhikers here and if we were, we forgot our towels... |
| 23:00.28 | lars-ut | "No Sir, I didn't like it." |
| 23:01.17 | herlo | What, the crash of 2006? |
| 23:01.32 | maquis | mmm... food! |
| 23:01.55 | lars-ut | Russel Ice Cream makes a good Moose Tracks |
| 23:09.23 | mheath | really, though, if anyone has any constructive comments or criticisms on linspire (beyond "it sucks"), I will be sending that e-mail, so.. |
| 23:13.41 | sjansen | foo =~ s/\s+/_/g <-- writing the python equivalent of that can't be as complicated as I think it is |
| 23:15.09 | synic | foo = re.sub("\s+", "_", foo) |
| 23:15.49 | sjansen | much better |
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| 23:19.18 | sjansen | Is it just me of does Jayce^ go home slightly earlier every day? |
| 23:19.43 | maquis | sjansen: interesting question |
| 23:21.13 | lars-ut | that reminds me of the sign by the door on the way out that asks us as employees to give 1% more effort each day. |
| 23:21.30 | lars-ut | yep - that's where I work. |
| 23:21.37 | goozbach | define too much time on your hands: http://www.leweyg.com/download/SIRD/q2/index.html |
| 23:21.37 | brac | [Quake 2 AbSIRD - Lewey's World] |
| 23:23.10 | sjansen | each day on the way out I would tape a small object (preferably ~1% of area of the sign) to the sign |
| 23:24.03 | drbrain | goozbach: that would be trippy to play |
| 23:26.47 | mheath | I've decided that I'm going to send a lot of my software distribution ideas off to this guy. |
| 23:27.14 | mheath | At this rate, with my naval career, Linux will be old news before I get around to creating a software distribution comercially. |
| 23:29.13 | mheath | *commercially. |
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| 23:32.27 | Lone_Wanderer | I have a question that I think will meet sjansen's approval. What tool can I use to replace every instance of a string in every file in a directory with a different string? |
| 23:34.18 | maquis | methinks sed can do that, but i'm not sure if you'd need to do that in a foreach or if it'd do it itself |
| 23:35.24 | drbrain | for f in *; do ...; done |
| 23:35.45 | dataw0lf | just use xargs |
| 23:36.05 | maquis | looks like you can give multiple files to sed... in which case, *<tab> should work... |
| 23:36.20 | lars-ut | ~listauth drbrain |
| 23:36.22 | ibot | factoid author list by 'drbrain' returned no results. |
| 23:37.02 | maquis | ~drbrain |
| 23:37.29 | drbrain | ibot: drbrain is drbrain@segment7.net or http://segment7.net |
| 23:37.31 | ibot | drbrain: okay |
| 23:37.41 | dataw0lf | maquis: not by default |
| 23:37.49 | maquis | ah |
| 23:38.15 | maquis | it's a feature of zsh that i sometimes love, and sometimes get annoyed by, depending on whether that's what i wanted it to do when i hit tab :) |
| 23:39.05 | Lone_Wanderer | zsh - Zaphod Shell? |
| 23:39.16 | maquis | ~zsh |
| 23:39.17 | ibot | Powerful UNIX shell. URL: http://www.zsh.org/ |
| 23:39.27 | sjansen | sed -i 's/foo/bar/' * |
| 23:39.44 | sjansen | oops: sed -i 's/foo/bar/g' * |
| 23:40.02 | Lone_Wanderer | sjansen: now you're violating your own rules |
| 23:40.15 | maquis | ?? |
| 23:40.24 | maquis | Lone_Wanderer: how's he violating his own rules? |
| 23:41.02 | Lone_Wanderer | he said not to annoy people by asking how to do things, so I instead asked which tool I should learn to use to do this thing |
| 23:41.18 | Lone_Wanderer | and then instead of just saying "read man sed" he went and told me exactly how to do it |
| 23:41.40 | maquis | that's not violating his own rules |
| 23:41.51 | Lone_Wanderer | well, not strictly, no |
| 23:42.07 | maquis | that's where he decides to help you out, since you asked a better question |
| 23:43.13 | Lone_Wanderer | now watch while I make a mistake with character escaping and rewrite something I didn't intend to |
| 23:47.33 | mheath | xbmodder: Time to sell your google stock. |
| 23:50.20 | Lone_Wanderer | had to add a `find . -type f` on the end instead of * 'cause of directories but that fixed it, thanks Stuart :) |
| 23:50.28 | mheath | Yah, snow! |
| 23:52.06 | mheath | That means it will be slow(er) at work tonight |
| 23:52.11 | mheath | Better for training the new guy |
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