| 00:04.25 | synic | can anyone recommend alternatives to comcast cable in downtown SLC - if bluewave and DSL are not an option? |
| 00:05.26 | synic | ... I really hope there are some ... comcast must die. |
| 00:08.52 | jlp_work | synic: ELI? I think they have fiber in a lot of places downtown |
| 00:09.00 | synic | k |
| 00:09.38 | jlp_work | are you looking for something for a company? or for your apartment? (ELI would be for a company most likely) |
| 00:09.58 | goozbach | ok so I expire and account with usermod -e |
| 00:10.11 | goozbach | how do I un-expire it |
| 00:10.12 | goozbach | ? |
| 00:10.47 | goozbach | without editing /etc/shadow |
| 00:11.57 | jlp_work | goozbach: usermod -e "" username |
| 00:12.44 | goozbach | of course |
| 00:12.53 | goozbach | ok I need a break |
| 00:13.01 | jlp_work | :-) |
| 00:13.28 | xbmodder_lappy | synic, suicide? |
| 00:14.03 | xbmodder_lappy | that tends to be a good option compared to slow ISPs... |
| 00:14.08 | xbmodder_lappy | Fiber. |
| 00:14.24 | xbmodder_lappy | yum. |
| 00:14.52 | sjansen | bah, I'd rather go with cafepress and have guarenteed acceptance than roll the dice with jinx |
| 00:16.53 | synic | jlp_work: yeah, just my apartment. |
| 00:17.11 | jlp_work | synic: ELI is probably going to be too expensive |
| 00:17.46 | jlp_work | too bad SLC didn't hook in with the Utopia project, then you would actually have some kind of competition |
| 00:19.41 | synic | comcast is honestly worse than dialup now |
| 00:24.39 | *** join/#utah amcnabb (n=amcnabb@c-24-10-236-93.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 00:44.32 | SpecialZ_ | ~lart maquis |
| 00:44.55 | SpecialZ_ | I have issues with comcast connectivity, though it's probably our cable router. |
| 00:45.15 | xbmodder_lappy | ~roulette xbmodder_ |
| 00:45.16 | SpecialZ_ | We complained and they took it away for a week, but didn't do anything with it. |
| 00:45.20 | xbmodder_lappy | ~roulette |
| 00:45.23 | ibot | ACTION watches xbmodder_lappy pull the trigger: Click! |
| 00:45.23 | SpecialZ_ | ~rlart |
| 00:45.26 | xbmodder_lappy | SpecialZ, lol. |
| 00:45.31 | xbmodder_lappy | ~roulette |
| 00:45.33 | ibot | ACTION watches xbmodder_lappy pull the trigger: Click! |
| 00:45.41 | xbmodder_lappy | ~roulette |
| 00:45.42 | ibot | ACTION watches xbmodder_lappy pull the trigger: BANG! |
| 00:45.52 | SpecialZ_ | flood warning |
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| 01:15.36 | goozbach | me: "well see you tomorrow." |
| 01:15.39 | goozbach | me: "well see you tomorrow." |
| 01:15.41 | goozbach | me: "well see you tomorrow." |
| 01:15.52 | goozbach | 10 minutes later... |
| 01:16.09 | goozbach | guy: "ok so see you tomorrow" |
| 01:16.25 | goozbach | some people don't do well with hints |
| 01:16.56 | Tene | goozbach: Yes, *some* people. |
| 01:17.21 | Tene | On an unrelated subject, this channel was quite peaceful a few minutes ago. |
| 01:18.12 | goozbach | point being? |
| 01:18.40 | goozbach | you want peacefull? |
| 01:18.46 | goozbach | I could set it +s |
| 01:18.50 | *** join/#utah Lone_Wanderer (n=chatzill@204.14.22.72) |
| 01:18.51 | Tene | No, I just wanted to be a jerk, actually. |
| 01:18.52 | goozbach | :) |
| 01:18.57 | Tene | +s is secret... |
| 01:19.01 | Tene | +m is moderated. |
| 01:19.04 | goozbach | er yeah |
| 01:19.07 | goozbach | +m |
| 01:19.32 | goozbach | I knew that... |
| 01:19.36 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 01:19.47 | sjansen | goozbach: that's when you hall out the stronger hints |
| 01:19.51 | goozbach | oh better behave now elg is here |
| 01:19.57 | Lone_Wanderer | Does anyone know where I can find the quote by the top Microsoft officer who said that security isn't one of their priorities? |
| 01:20.03 | elg | -lart goozbach |
| 01:20.04 | sjansen | putting laptops in a bag, putting on a coat, walking away, running away |
| 01:20.06 | goozbach | google? |
| 01:20.09 | Tene | sjansen: you mean like "Don't you hate it when people mix up their synonyms?"? |
| 01:20.29 | goozbach | sjansen: I would have if I didn't have to set up the classroom for the exam |
| 01:20.31 | Tene | erm... homynyms. |
| 01:20.35 | Tene | I lose. |
| 01:20.38 | goozbach | I needed HIM to leave |
| 01:20.54 | sjansen | oh, well that's even easier |
| 01:21.07 | sjansen | "I need you to leave this room so that I can setup the exam." |
| 01:21.41 | goozbach | that's not subtle enough |
| 01:21.52 | Tene | Why did it need to be subtle? |
| 01:21.55 | goozbach | I let them stay till 7, geez |
| 01:22.03 | goozbach | Tene: I'm not a jerk |
| 01:22.12 | sjansen | "Can we pick up the conversation? I have to prep this room for the exam, and I have a reservation at $expensive_restraunt that I don't want to lose." |
| 01:22.26 | goozbach | or a confrontationl person for that matter |
| 01:22.32 | sjansen | s/sation/sation tomorrow/ |
| 01:25.24 | xbmodder_lappy | Do you want to talk to nick's mom? |
| 01:25.37 | sjansen | well, time to go to $not_so_expensive_restraunt_and_place_to_keep_your_clothes |
| 01:25.51 | sjansen | s/your/my/ |
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| 03:14.46 | goozbach | http://www.robot.net/shootback.html |
| 03:14.54 | brac | [Andy Rubin] |
| 03:30.57 | *** join/#utah emcnabb_ (n=emcnabb@cobra.mcnabbs.org) |
| 03:32.27 | emcnabb_ | just checking out irssi |
| 03:32.54 | elg | -lart emcnabb_ |
| 03:33.07 | emcnabb_ | ~lart elg |
| 03:54.12 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@adsl-69-238-24-205.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net) |
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| 03:59.31 | emcnabb | sorry about the constant logging in and out |
| 03:59.39 | emcnabb | I'm going to get this right eventually |
| 04:00.08 | elg | no, but you'll get close enough that you don't bother changing anything else |
| 04:02.36 | emcnabb | elg, do you use irssi? |
| 04:02.42 | elg | yeah |
| 04:02.47 | emcnabb | what theme do you use? |
| 04:02.55 | emcnabb | or just your own? |
| 04:02.55 | elg | and also colloquy on the mac |
| 04:03.01 | elg | just the default |
| 04:03.08 | goozbach | emcnabb: users.netradius.com/~goozbach/ |
| 04:03.12 | elg | it looked better than any of the other themes |
| 04:03.19 | elg | and I haven't the time to do my own theme |
| 04:03.43 | elg | goozbach: no screenshot? |
| 04:04.22 | emcnabb | yeah goozbach, where's the screenshot? |
| 04:05.19 | emcnabb | what's the best way to have irssi automatically send the /msg nickserv identify command on startup? |
| 04:05.43 | goozbach | just like my config |
| 04:05.54 | goozbach | it's in there. |
| 04:06.13 | emcnabb | ah |
| 04:06.16 | emcnabb | I see it; thanks |
| 04:06.55 | emcnabb | goozbach: you rock |
| 04:07.13 | elg | it's an illusion, he's actually paper |
| 04:07.16 | elg | -rps rock |
| 04:07.17 | brac | scissors. You win. |
| 04:07.23 | elg | ~lart brac |
| 04:07.38 | emcnabb | -lart elg |
| 04:08.17 | emcnabb | what does "wait -freenode 2000"" do? |
| 04:08.56 | elg | probably DoS's freenode after 2000 seconds |
| 04:09.43 | goozbach | do'n rember |
| 04:10.12 | goozbach | waits r0 s before sending commands methinks |
| 04:11.06 | goozbach | that's 20 |
| 04:11.31 | ScytheBlade1 | Waits 2 seconds |
| 04:12.38 | goozbach | shrimp, steak, and crab... |
| 04:12.45 | goozbach | nummy |
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| 04:30.42 | emcnabb_ | emcnabb: testing coloration |
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| 04:47.35 | *** join/#utah levi (n=levi@levi.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 04:50.12 | levi | Good evening. |
| 04:51.49 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@cobra.mcnabbs.org) |
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| 05:08.58 | levi | Mmm, Rodgrod med flode! |
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| 05:36.35 | emcnabb | well, I guess I have it configured good enough for now |
| 05:36.53 | emcnabb | there are still a few things I still need to get working |
| 05:37.31 | emcnabb | so tired... |
| 05:41.57 | emcnabb | quit |
| 05:47.32 | maquis | http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/26/bus.crash/index.html <-- someone who could use some extra prayers tonight... |
| 05:47.33 | brac | [CNN.com - Grandpa dies upon learning 7 children killed - Jan 26, 2006] |
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| 06:16.27 | findlay_plus_o | couldn't get enough irc emcnabb? |
| 06:47.00 | *** join/#utah maquis (n=maquis@joanna.zmonkey.org) |
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| 07:26.46 | maquis | -lart maquis |
| 07:39.35 | findlay_plus_o | ~kickban everybody with prejudice and ~napalm #utah |
| 07:39.42 | findlay_plus_o | there, now I've done it |
| 07:39.43 | *** join/#utah Hhhhh (n=zic@158.91.201.220) |
| 07:40.33 | Hhhhh | I am looking for a full time job in the videogame industry or computer graphics |
| 07:41.46 | findlay | If I find one, I'll give it to you |
| 07:41.47 | Hhhhh | anybody knows anyone that might be looking for a 3D engine or tools developer? |
| 07:41.51 | Hhhhh | thx |
| 07:42.17 | findlay | but you have to give it back on every third Tuesday |
| 07:42.24 | Hhhhh | ok |
| 07:42.47 | Hhhhh | I could use a day off every once in a while |
| 07:43.07 | findlay | Hhhhh: one of my friends just got an internship at Pixar |
| 07:43.16 | Hhhhh | heh, IRCing in a Zaurus requires some prqctice |
| 07:43.20 | Hhhhh | cool |
| 07:43.24 | Hhhhh | who? |
| 07:43.41 | findlay | Are you at BYU? |
| 07:43.43 | Hhhhh | Niel Westover? |
| 07:43.45 | Hhhhh | yea |
| 07:44.05 | findlay | no |
| 07:44.32 | Hhhhh | who? I know a few that work there |
| 07:44.43 | Hhhhh | Jon Dinerstein? |
| 07:46.15 | findlay | Emma Weyerman |
| 07:46.30 | findlay | hey, it's Mozart's 250th birthday today! |
| 07:46.39 | Hhhhh | hmm, doesnt ring a bell |
| 07:46.56 | findlay | she was in the animation program |
| 07:47.02 | Hhhhh | gotcha |
| 07:47.14 | Hhhhh | I dont know a lot of people there |
| 07:47.17 | Hhhhh | just a few |
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| 14:41.35 | graphyx | good morning #utah! |
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| 14:51.43 | *** join/#utah Jayce^ (n=Jayce_@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 14:51.43 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
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| 15:23.03 | xbmodder_lappy | why doesn't anyone make a music network for us? |
| 15:23.10 | xbmodder_lappy | us=linuxers |
| 15:28.15 | Jayce^ | because there aren't nearly enough to justify it... even if every one was guaranteed to pay for it |
| 15:31.43 | elg | what exactly do we listen to then? |
| 15:46.52 | elg | i mean, Jayce^ likes that crazy midnight oil group. and what if maquis likes NSync? |
| 15:48.43 | goozbach | and I'm a fan of Frank! |
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| 16:08.26 | emcnabb | it's nice to have irssi installed |
| 16:08.39 | emcnabb | I can get on IRC even on those pesky corporate networks |
| 16:12.20 | goozbach | yeah |
| 16:12.41 | goozbach | now you need to run it under a screen session and be here 24/7 just like me |
| 16:17.32 | emcnabb | I'm using screen right now |
| 16:18.03 | emcnabb | I don't think I'll be on during dinner like you though :-) |
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| 16:21.52 | *** join/#utah Hhhhh (n=cristoba@158.91.201.220) |
| 16:22.38 | goozbach | meh, the wife will understand. |
| 16:24.11 | Jayce^ | and thus we see why goozbach is still single |
| 16:24.22 | *** join/#utah synic (n=synic@pdpc/supporter/student/synic) |
| 16:25.27 | Hhhhh | lol |
| 16:25.29 | Hhhhh | ouch |
| 16:26.45 | emcnabb | I can see it now over IRC: "Honey, will you pass the salt" |
| 16:27.42 | Jayce^ | emcnabb: Wife has initiated DCC chat, Accept? [Y,n] |
| 16:27.46 | emcnabb | I guess it's like that time we (Guru Labs employees) were out at that Chinese restaurant, all on #utah with our Treos |
| 16:27.53 | emcnabb | haha |
| 16:28.47 | Hhhhh | lol |
| 16:30.25 | goozbach | emcnabb, Jayce^: you're just jealous |
| 16:30.34 | Jayce^ | riiiight |
| 16:30.41 | Jayce^ | </kronk> |
| 16:31.33 | goozbach | we'd be sitting next to each other and chatting online |
| 16:31.40 | Jayce^ | goozbach, you just miss having a girlfriend..... :-p |
| 16:31.53 | goozbach | Jayce^: SHHHHHH!!!!! |
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| 16:48.18 | emcnabb | http://www.jimofseattle.com/music/Welcome_to_Windows.mp3 |
| 16:48.20 | emcnabb | wow |
| 16:55.55 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 16:56.47 | goozbach | that's cool |
| 16:56.54 | goozbach | in a disturbed way |
| 16:57.01 | emcnabb | agreeed |
| 16:57.13 | goozbach | oh wait, it's just sjansen |
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| 17:09.12 | EC1 | ~lart maquis |
| 17:11.05 | levi | Ahh, plug is on fire again. :) |
| 17:11.36 | Jayce^ | quick reminder... RHEL 4 is based off which version of regular RH? |
| 17:11.49 | Jayce^ | 9.0, or was that RHEL 3? |
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| 17:16.27 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 17:18.44 | dataw0lf | Man, that Ellis guy again. |
| 17:19.00 | dataw0lf | sjansen: good luck this time in beating any sort of sense into him. |
| 17:22.13 | sjansen | Jayce^: RH9 -> RHEL3, FC3 -> RHEL4 (Or was it 2? Pretty sure it was 3.) |
| 17:22.40 | sjansen | FC5 -> RHEL5 (probably) |
| 17:23.06 | goozbach | FC3 |
| 17:24.19 | Jayce^ | sjansen, 3, just wasn't sure if it was that or RHEL5 that would pin there, got the linkage off |
| 17:26.47 | sjansen | anyone know how get gaim to stop telling me my aim account has mail? |
| 17:27.09 | graphyx | you have an aim account? |
| 17:27.13 | graphyx | ~mock sjansen |
| 17:27.14 | ibot | ACTION pulls sjansen's pants down and shows the world sjansen's pink spotted underwear |
| 17:27.26 | sjansen | (Other than deleting the message. I don't want to go to all the work of allowing AOL to set cookies, and I don't want to ever see the message again.) |
| 17:28.36 | sjansen | graphyx: Yeah, shocker, I know. I actually have (non-geek) friends. Who woulda thunk? |
| 17:32.36 | graphyx | sjansen: I'm just yanking your chain. |
| 17:32.43 | graphyx | Apparently it was attached to a sore point. |
| 17:33.04 | goozbach | does sjansen have any non-sore points? |
| 17:33.11 | graphyx | perl |
| 17:33.19 | graphyx | ubuntu? |
| 17:33.28 | graphyx | apple hardware? |
| 17:33.31 | goozbach | I'll give you the first one |
| 17:33.42 | goozbach | you're reaching with the second two |
| 17:33.59 | sjansen | ~eat graphyx |
| 17:34.00 | ibot | ACTION eats graphyx and falls over dead |
| 17:34.39 | goozbach | click click bloody click panCAKES!! |
| 17:36.27 | sjansen | graphyx: I wasn't upset. Just wanted to take advantage of the chance to brag about actually having friends. |
| 17:36.49 | sjansen | Although now that I think about it, most of them haven't contacted me for about two years now... |
| 17:37.03 | graphyx | perhaps they have moved away from AIM. |
| 17:37.06 | goozbach | what are these friend things you speak of? |
| 17:37.47 | goozbach | I used my AIM account for the first time in 3 years this week |
| 17:38.46 | goozbach | and I only use it to talk to one person |
| 17:39.13 | maquis | mmm... |
| 17:39.15 | maquis | pancakes... |
| 17:39.30 | sjansen | Would you believe that Mecworks (for shame) only uses AIM? |
| 17:40.28 | maquis | for some reason,there are some people who i only have the AIM for... |
| 17:40.36 | goozbach | drat, got attacked by a rabid cow |
| 17:41.09 | sjansen | Of course, if you use the jabber.org servers for any amount of time, I can understand running back to AIM. |
| 17:41.28 | Jayce^ | sjansen, no he doesn't |
| 17:41.48 | Jayce^ | he uses jabber (gtalk) and is keeping his aim around just for friends |
| 17:41.56 | graphyx | goozbach: You playing diablo II cow level? |
| 17:42.28 | maquis | ~rabid cow goozbach |
| 17:43.42 | sjansen | Jayce^: Ah. That's a change since I bugged him about it a year ago. |
| 17:45.16 | sjansen | There's only one reasonable course of action at this point... |
| 17:45.20 | sjansen | ~ridicule tensai |
| 17:45.21 | ibot | ACTION drops tensai in a tank of pink paint and herring |
| 17:45.49 | maquis | hmmm... that's gotta smell good... |
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| 17:50.21 | findlay | ~smell maquis |
| 17:52.08 | graphyx | findlay: Isn't that a form of sexual harassment? |
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| 18:00.14 | maquis | ~sue findlay |
| 18:04.35 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 18:06.30 | maquis | |
| 18:07.12 | goozbach | WOOT! |
| 18:07.28 | goozbach | I just found out I've got a firefly fortune database installed |
| 18:07.34 | Jayce^ | nice |
| 18:07.40 | sjansen | ~snipe goozbach |
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| 18:09.42 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 18:09.57 | sjansen | Why does reading the baz man page feel just like reading legal documents? |
| 18:10.59 | goozbach | cause they stole it |
| 18:14.15 | *** join/#utah Lone_Wanderer (n=chatzill@204.14.22.72) |
| 18:17.24 | Lone_Wanderer | ~seen sjansen |
| 18:17.33 | ibot | sjansen is currently on #utah (1h 21m 38s). Has said a total of 15 messages. Is idling for 7m 36s, last said: 'Why does reading the baz man page feel just like reading legal documents?'. |
| 18:17.33 | Lone_Wanderer | !seen sjansen |
| 18:19.15 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@216-190-206-130.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 18:20.04 | Lone_Wanderer | sjansen: what language would you use for web development, given a choice? |
| 18:20.36 | *** join/#utah Goshen (n=Goshen@67-40-107-192.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 18:20.44 | graphyx | Lone_Wanderer: Try perl |
| 18:20.54 | Newsome | he'd use sjansen++ |
| 18:21.14 | Lone_Wanderer | What advantages does Perl have over PHP as a web development language? |
| 18:21.20 | goozbach | cpan |
| 18:21.27 | goozbach | and 45% less suck |
| 18:21.28 | graphyx | I'll agree to that one. |
| 18:21.30 | goozbach | :) |
| 18:22.22 | Lone_Wanderer | Doesn't maintainability become a problem as your project grows? |
| 18:22.32 | Lone_Wanderer | wait |
| 18:22.35 | Lone_Wanderer | scratch that |
| 18:22.40 | Jayce^ | that's a good start |
| 18:22.46 | Lone_Wanderer | for a second I forgot that I'm comparing PHP to Perl. |
| 18:23.59 | Lone_Wanderer | This is disconcerting. My CD drive is making grinding sounds when playing music CD's. It didn't used to do this. |
| 18:24.24 | emcnabb | ugh |
| 18:24.34 | emcnabb | it's only 10:20 and I'm starving |
| 18:25.35 | RyanE | yeah, but in Utah it's 11:25 |
| 18:25.42 | RyanE | that's nearly lunchtime. Go for it. |
| 18:25.48 | Lone_Wanderer | The optimal solution for that is generally to locate plant or animal tissue and ingest it. |
| 18:26.32 | emcnabb | I'm currently consuming something with an unknown origin |
| 18:26.42 | graphyx | You went to mcdonalds? |
| 18:26.43 | emcnabb | it claims to be a "cookie" |
| 18:27.19 | Lone_Wanderer | Cookies are delicious delicacies. |
| 18:27.42 | emcnabb | I can find example that do fall under that category |
| 18:27.49 | emcnabb | do not |
| 18:27.59 | emcnabb | this would be one of them |
| 18:28.05 | graphyx | Like tofo? |
| 18:28.30 | emcnabb | tofo cookies? I've never tried them. Does not sound yummy though |
| 18:28.54 | sjansen | Lone_Wanderer: Just a moment. |
| 18:28.58 | Lone_Wanderer | ok |
| 18:29.45 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: You didn't ask me, but given a choice, I'd use Common Lisp, Scheme, or Smalltalk. After those, probably Ruby. After that, probably Python. After that, Perl. If for some reason I couldn't use any of those, I might consider using PHP. ;) |
| 18:31.06 | Lone_Wanderer | I thought Common Lisp was generally not used for web development due to the lack of libraries (compared to other languages like Ruby and Python) for doing webby things |
| 18:31.20 | Lone_Wanderer | witness Reddit rewriting from Lisp to Python |
| 18:31.20 | Lone_Wanderer | (among others) |
| 18:32.02 | Lone_Wanderer | Although I suppose if you personally are so much more fluent in Lisp than you are in any other language that the lack of libraries isn't that big of a setback, the benefits could well outweigh the costs. |
| 18:34.24 | goozbach | python libs for web stuff are everywheres |
| 18:34.30 | goozbach | twisted is awesome |
| 18:35.05 | sjansen | Lone_Wanderer: There isn't a useful one sentence answer to your question " what language would you use for web development, given a choice?" |
| 18:36.20 | sjansen | Among all the languages and frameworks I've used, Ruby on Rails was the most enjoyable. But getting it to perform well on my personal server has proven too difficult so far. |
| 18:36.33 | Lone_Wanderer | Would rewording it to "If you were a professional web developer employed to build sites of various sizes for your customers, what language or languagese would you use" make it easier to answer? Or does that not change the nature of the question enough? |
| 18:37.28 | sjansen | It doesn't change it. I would recommend being conversant in several languages and platforms so that rather than being a one-trick-pony, you'll be able to recommend the most appropriate language for the customer's needs. |
| 18:37.51 | Lone_Wanderer | So I'll just stick with my new year's resolution then. |
| 18:38.04 | Lone_Wanderer | Learn one new language a month. Pursue those that are promising. |
| 18:38.23 | sjansen | The nice thing about Perl compared to PHP is the power of mod_perl compared to the limits of mod_php. With mod_perl, you have _complete_ control of the server. |
| 18:38.33 | Lone_Wanderer | cool |
| 18:38.58 | sjansen | If if most of my app were written in PHP, I'd probably still write the authentication (and high level authorization) in mod_perl because it just feels cleaner to me. |
| 18:39.59 | goozbach | http://www.cryptex.org/index.html |
| 18:40.00 | brac | [Cryptex - Custom-made Cryptex(tm) Security Box] |
| 18:40.12 | sjansen | CPAN has some really useful tools. A couple years ago, on a very tight budget I wrote a PHP that was supposed to spit out custom PDF forms. |
| 18:40.19 | Jayce^ | goozbach, or sjansen likely, got a question for you about RH installs |
| 18:40.51 | goozbach | shoot |
| 18:40.56 | Jayce^ | how do you load a driver into an FC3 install... what format for an disk and such |
| 18:41.11 | Jayce^ | we've got a new sun box with serial-scsi, that needs a special driver |
| 18:41.21 | Jayce^ | fc* doesn't have the driver |
| 18:41.27 | Jayce^ | but you can get it |
| 18:42.04 | sjansen | Unfortunately, doing it right was too expensive. So we ended up generating FDFs that refereneced PDFs that had to be printed because they couldn't be saved. If the customer had accepted a Perl solution, we could have used a CPAN module to merge the FDF data into the PDF to create a new PDF. |
| 18:42.07 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: There are plenty of libraries available in Common Lisp and Scheme for web development for my needs. Reddit's problem was doing development and deployment on different platforms and ones that weren't well-supported by the Lisp they chose. |
| 18:42.32 | Lone_Wanderer | why were they developing on different platforms for a single site? |
| 18:42.40 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: Beats me. |
| 18:42.47 | Lone_Wanderer | weird |
| 18:42.54 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: They did dev work on OS X boxes and released on FreeBSD. |
| 18:43.22 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: And I believe they were using SBCL, which really works best in Linux. |
| 18:43.47 | Lone_Wanderer | I bet they just happened to have OSX boxes as their PC's and they switched to FreeBSD for their servers when they moved it to their hosting company. |
| 18:44.03 | sjansen | Other times, Java (*shiver*) will be a better choice because of libraries allowing you to integrate with existing infrastructure. In addition, if you do the project in Java or PHP it'll be easier for the customer to high any-old-programmer to make changes if you aren't available. Ethically, I think that you should consider that rather than trying to trap customers. |
| 18:44.20 | Lone_Wanderer | Knowing Y Combinator startups and how they're encouraged to run, that sounds like something they might do. |
| 18:45.13 | goozbach | Jayce^: I usually just download the next release of disk 1 |
| 18:45.17 | Lone_Wanderer | sjansen: Surely you're not telling me to learn Java? Don't make me get my pitchfork... |
| 18:45.26 | goozbach | don't violate the 6 month rule :) |
| 18:45.56 | Jayce^ | goozbach, no choice on this one, and afaik fc5 don't have it either.. |
| 18:46.02 | Jayce^ | but RHEL4 *does* |
| 18:46.07 | sjansen | Lone_Wanderer: Actually, I am. If you don't know Java, you should learn it. If you then decide to not use it, I'm probably going to agree with you. |
| 18:46.08 | Jayce^ | and we don't have it around right now |
| 18:46.27 | Lone_Wanderer | goozbach: what's the six month rule? |
| 18:46.40 | Jayce^ | apparently centos doesn't |
| 18:47.13 | Lone_Wanderer | sjansen: I guess I'll put Java on the list of languages to learn then. But I'm under the impression that getting a handle on Java sufficient to actually write something in it will take more than a month. |
| 18:48.11 | sjansen | Not for the more useful simple stuff, it won't. Start by playing with JSP and Servlets. There's actually some cool things about the design of Tomcat. |
| 18:48.46 | Lone_Wanderer | ok |
| 18:49.56 | goozbach | Lone_Wanderer: don't use any hardware that isn't at least six months older than the release date of your distro |
| 18:50.13 | sjansen | That's give you the background you need to understand things like Stuts and Java Server Faces, etc. Don't do anything more than read the Struts docs, though. That should be enough to convince you it's ugly and counter-productive. Marvel at the marketing of JSF. Wonder about the usefullness of Cocoon. Flee from the mention of EJB's. Ponder why Java developers think Beans are such a big deal. (Hint: Simplicity in the Java world is a rare and valuable |
| 18:50.13 | sjansen | revalation.) |
| 18:51.15 | Lone_Wanderer | Wow. Lots of stuff to marvel, wonder, flee from, and ponder. |
| 18:51.28 | sjansen | The Java world is actually very rich with useful code and interesting architectures. It's just too prone to over-engineering and attempting to solve every-problem-known-to-man-and-several-that-won't-be-discovered-for-the-next-three-hundred-years. |
| 18:52.45 | graphyx | lol |
| 18:53.59 | Jayce^ | sjansen, but you have to say that in InitCaps |
| 18:55.13 | goozbach | studlyCaps |
| 18:55.18 | Lone_Wanderer | Is Ruby the first language to come out of the non-English speaking world? |
| 18:55.29 | Jayce^ | far from it |
| 18:56.11 | graphyx | perl came from the orient. Which is why it is so hard to read. |
| 18:56.14 | graphyx | j/k. |
| 18:56.55 | Jayce^ | actually, it came from Seattle :) (queue jokes) |
| 18:58.53 | Lone_Wanderer | I'd have thought that Java would have come from Seattle. |
| 18:59.29 | Jayce^ | nah, it has all the influence of the bay area |
| 19:01.36 | *** join/#utah Robdor (n=rob@customer67-50-41-124.veracitycom.net) |
| 19:02.05 | levi | Oh my. Someone brought RELIGION into the plug flamefest. :) |
| 19:02.18 | Lone_Wanderer | I think that's the most entertaining flame I've seen yet. |
| 19:03.46 | Lone_Wanderer | and Bluemars needs more servers |
| 19:07.03 | maquis | levi: are you startled that someon brought religion in? |
| 19:07.18 | levi | maquis: No, I thought it was funny, as it was intended to be. |
| 19:07.37 | maquis | levi: ah |
| 19:07.49 | maquis | which thread? |
| 19:07.55 | levi | The big one. |
| 19:08.34 | goozbach | that's odd |
| 19:08.42 | spr | must resist arguing bad statistic gathering practices... |
| 19:08.50 | goozbach | I'm flying to LAX through St George |
| 19:12.19 | sjansen | really?! |
| 19:12.34 | goozbach | yeah... |
| 19:12.37 | goozbach | odd, no? |
| 19:12.41 | levi | goozbach: Someone must have found a 'deal'. |
| 19:12.44 | sjansen | That's as odd as the time I flew from SLC to the east coast through Idaho. |
| 19:13.04 | goozbach | I didn't think SGU was anything but an end point |
| 19:13.21 | sjansen | levi: Or waited too long to book travel. In this case, I think that was the cause. |
| 19:13.37 | RyanE | gooz: if you connect two end points together, they're no longer end points. :) |
| 19:14.52 | goozbach | RyanE: I thought that there was only one way in or out. |
| 19:15.09 | goozbach | I was un-aware of other endpoints from other directions |
| 19:16.36 | goozbach | ok that's it! |
| 19:16.43 | goozbach | no more MTV for me in the morning |
| 19:16.57 | goozbach | I've got this STUPID beyonce song in my head |
| 19:17.08 | goozbach | and I can't get it out |
| 19:21.58 | sjansen | Man, even I'm getting tired of the thread. |
| 19:27.07 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp25.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 19:27.45 | maquis | that might just be me, though |
| 19:28.24 | sjansen | No, it's obviously the fault of the language. |
| 19:28.42 | sjansen | Scheme is too simple. |
| 19:29.07 | *** join/#utah flyboy^ (n=flyboy@ded1005.west-datacenter.net) |
| 19:29.11 | sjansen | Maintainable code can only be written using more complex languages. |
| 19:29.15 | flyboy^ | Hi folks. |
| 19:34.01 | elg | sjansen: let alone fast code |
| 19:34.30 | flyboy^ | hehe. :) |
| 19:34.41 | sjansen | ~reward flyboy^ |
| 19:35.12 | flyboy^ | Nothing like a good flame-fest to galvanize a community. |
| 19:38.07 | sjansen | (Because I can't resist wanting to get the last word:) Yes, Jonathon, we are done here. |
| 19:40.24 | maquis | perhaps i'm just used to sjansen... but he seems much more reasonable than jellis |
| 19:41.24 | elg | it's the beard |
| 19:41.39 | sjansen | It makes me fuzzy and luvable. |
| 19:44.45 | goozbach | so, I'm glad I've now got something to do during the exam here |
| 19:45.03 | maquis | goozbach: what are you doing? |
| 19:45.11 | goozbach | reading PLUG of course |
| 19:46.33 | maquis | ah |
| 19:46.45 | maquis | Lone_Wanderer: the nazi one? |
| 19:46.52 | Lone_Wanderer | yeah |
| 19:46.54 | Lone_Wanderer | don't tell anyone |
| 19:46.58 | Lone_Wanderer | ;) |
| 19:47.00 | maquis | if you intentionally invoke it, it won't work |
| 19:47.09 | maquis | that's one of the facts of the law |
| 19:47.21 | Lone_Wanderer | I've done it intentionally before and it worked fine. |
| 19:48.05 | flyboy^ | You attempted to invoke it though. So is that the same as actually invoking? |
| 19:48.07 | Lone_Wanderer | I think that if people don't realize it's intentional it might work. |
| 19:48.41 | Lone_Wanderer | And I'm hoping that the guy, what's his name, who Stuart was flaming, isn't in this chat room right now. |
| 19:50.18 | flyboy^ | If you are saying RUBY is a NAZI language. I'm going to have to call your BISHOP! |
| 19:50.46 | flyboy^ | ;) |
| 19:51.13 | *** join/#utah jnbek (n=jnbek@c-67-166-97-223.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 19:52.33 | flyboy^ | Oh how I love thee, GNU screen. |
| 19:52.56 | flyboy^ | Thou kepest my terminal sessions true. |
| 19:55.36 | flyboy^ | Okay, here is a fun question: How many screen windows do you have open right now? |
| 19:56.05 | maquis | 2 at the moment |
| 19:56.12 | goozbach | open, as in running and un-connected |
| 19:56.22 | goozbach | or open as in running and looking at them? |
| 19:56.23 | elg | 2 or 3 |
| 19:56.29 | flyboy^ | either. |
| 19:57.17 | flyboy^ | I've written scripts to rename my screen windows as I jump around our system here. Helps keep me straight. |
| 19:57.37 | goozbach | 27 |
| 19:57.47 | flyboy^ | Sweet. 27. |
| 19:58.01 | goozbach | my login shell is screen however |
| 19:58.08 | goozbach | so that kinda doesn't count |
| 19:58.22 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp25.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 19:58.23 | flyboy^ | Is that 27 all in one session? |
| 19:58.25 | maquis | the one thing i haven't gotten screen to do nicely is let me scroll up in the terminal |
| 19:58.35 | flyboy^ | ctrl+a then ESC |
| 19:58.43 | flyboy^ | Page up, page down. :) |
| 19:58.52 | maquis | flyboy^: really |
| 19:58.54 | maquis | ? |
| 19:59.17 | flyboy^ | It works for me, sorry - that's all I meant. |
| 19:59.27 | elg | maquis: yup, except be wary of some terminals that mess up the up and down arrows and take you out of "copy mode" |
| 19:59.36 | elg | just get used to using vi cursors |
| 19:59.45 | maquis | ooh... that's cool |
| 20:00.10 | elg | I wish there was a way to somehow map that to shift-pgup, or something that doesn't require six keys to scroll up |
| 20:00.31 | maquis | elg: yeah... |
| 20:00.36 | elg | ctrl, a, ctrl, [ (or esc counts as two since it's way out there), fn, up arrow |
| 20:00.37 | maquis | that's what i was trying to do... and it didn't work |
| 20:00.38 | flyboy^ | Standard Answer: You have the source... right? :) |
| 20:00.43 | elg | flyboy^: not so simple |
| 20:00.59 | elg | because it's the xterm or iterm or whatever term that interprets shift-pgup |
| 20:01.11 | elg | so you'd have to somehow pass it through... |
| 20:01.14 | flyboy^ | What I think would be cool is to have my local terminal become 'screen' aware. |
| 20:01.23 | elg | exactly |
| 20:01.34 | flyboy^ | "Oh - you are using screen - let me integrate this session into my logic." |
| 20:01.45 | elg | someone should write/fork a terminal into screen awareness |
| 20:01.48 | elg | that would make my month |
| 20:03.24 | *** join/#utah jsynic (n=synic@li8-178.members.linode.com) |
| 20:03.45 | *** part/#utah jsynic (n=synic@li8-178.members.linode.com) |
| 20:05.21 | maquis | ~864/4 |
| 20:05.22 | ibot | 216 |
| 20:05.57 | elg | there's been a fascinating discussion about sample rates going on in LAU that parallels the java/perl bashing |
| 20:06.30 | elg | you see, the nyquist theorem states that in order to reproduce a signal with a maximum frequency of n Hz, you must sample at 2n Hz |
| 20:06.42 | levi | I wonder how my internal flag identifying jellis as an idiot not worthy of response managed to get cleared. It has now been set again. |
| 20:07.08 | elg | humans can hear up to 20 KHz, so sampling at 40KHz should do the trick. CD quality is 44.1 KHz |
| 20:07.09 | Lone_Wanderer | Doesn't seem to have worked. |
| 20:07.15 | Lone_Wanderer | The thread is still alive. |
| 20:07.29 | elg | and yet, people swear up and down that they can tell the difference between 44.1 and 48 or 96 or even 196 |
| 20:07.32 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: Sure, but I'm not responding to him anymore. |
| 20:07.54 | Lone_Wanderer | Surely without your illustrious input it will die quickly! ;) |
| 20:08.03 | elg | makes for an interesting discussion |
| 20:08.46 | elg | math vs. perception. the math-oriented refuse to believe they're wrong and the touchy-feelies refuse to ignore their supposed experience |
| 20:08.46 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: I was only talking about my participation and my personal regard for jellis, I meant nothing about the thread as a whole. |
| 20:10.27 | Lone_Wanderer | Meanwhile, some of us just want to sleep. |
| 20:10.37 | *** join/#utah Mister_Ed (n=Mister_E@70-56-103-50.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 20:10.37 | Lone_Wanderer | levi: I meant no offense |
| 20:11.57 | levi | jellis needs to read this: http://www.zedshaw.com/blog/programming/programmer_stats.html |
| 20:11.58 | brac | [Programmers Need To Learn Statistics Or I Will Kill Them All] |
| 20:12.19 | Jayce^ | levi, he needs to do a lot more than just read |
| 20:12.31 | Lone_Wanderer | is brac a bot that says stuff in response to certain phrases? |
| 20:12.33 | elg | hehe. the ego of guido |
| 20:12.54 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: He looks at URLs and parses out the <title> tag. |
| 20:13.00 | Lone_Wanderer | ahhhh |
| 20:13.13 | Lone_Wanderer | I thought he just had a fun sense of humor. |
| 20:13.28 | Jayce^ | elg, :) |
| 20:16.56 | levi | Jayce^: Now you've gone and insulted all the Python programmers. :) |
| 20:17.55 | Jayce^ | I had to... |
| 20:18.10 | Jayce^ | still, most of the decent ones will just laugh and enjoy it (hathaway, etc..) |
| 20:19.41 | dataw0lf | I'm laughing |
| 20:20.14 | dataw0lf | I say we all just agree that PHP is poorly designed, and Perl and Python are both lightyears ahead of it. |
| 20:21.40 | *** join/#utah jsmith (n=jsmith@65.165.64.66) |
| 20:21.50 | RyanE | and that sometimes poorly designed still has some value. |
| 20:21.53 | levi | dataw0lf: PHP is designed? I thought it was just accreted. |
| 20:22.06 | RyanE | sure looks like it. |
| 20:22.12 | jsmith | Anybody have a phone number for hans? |
| 20:22.37 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf, ayup |
| 20:23.20 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf, having Ellis fight on your side is the counterpoint to having jesse always pushing for Perl... :) |
| 20:23.36 | Lone_Wanderer | Clearly I am in dire need of learning other languages. |
| 20:23.50 | dataw0lf | Jayce^: hehe |
| 20:23.56 | Lone_Wanderer | Since I just can't see how PHP is poorly designed. |
| 20:24.04 | dataw0lf | *sigh* |
| 20:24.20 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: I want you to take a long, hard look at PHP's global namespace |
| 20:24.48 | Lone_Wanderer | dataw0lf: Half the reason I said that is because it's true. The other half is because I knew it'd get a reaction from you ;) |
| 20:24.49 | dataw0lf | Not just the tremendous amount of garbage in it, but also that there are no standards whatsoever |
| 20:25.12 | dataw0lf | You're getting a reaction. I'm trying to help you understand how it's poorly designed. |
| 20:25.16 | Lone_Wanderer | okay |
| 20:25.23 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@hfugal.NMSU.Edu) |
| 20:25.33 | dataw0lf | http://tnx.nl/php |
| 20:25.46 | Lone_Wanderer | My next statement, unlike most of what I say, is not a troll. |
| 20:25.51 | dataw0lf | 3079 functions in the global namespace. |
| 20:26.02 | dataw0lf | all with completely different naming schemes. |
| 20:26.07 | dataw0lf | That, my friend, is poor design. |
| 20:26.09 | dataw0lf | Or the lack thereof. |
| 20:26.20 | Lone_Wanderer | Every statement you just made reveals deeper and deeper lack of understanding on my part. |
| 20:26.55 | dataw0lf | What don't you understand? I'm serious, ask and ye shall receive. I love helping people realize that PHP is evil. Necessary, perhaps, but still evil. |
| 20:27.02 | Lone_Wanderer | one sec |
| 20:27.17 | dataw0lf | And I'd be a liar if I said I don't enjoy writing PHP occasionally. |
| 20:27.47 | Lone_Wanderer | well, when you say to take a look at the global namespace, I didn't know what you meant until you said that there are 3079 functions in it, with different naming schemes. Now I think I know what you mean. |
| 20:27.50 | sjansen | import globals <-- even (intelligent) PHP programmers why that is dangerous crack |
| 20:28.09 | Lone_Wanderer | import globals is something that you should never ever ever use in a PHP script... |
| 20:28.34 | Lone_Wanderer | oh |
| 20:28.40 | Lone_Wanderer | I'm beginning to understand. |
| 20:28.41 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: The thing about PHP is, with that cluttered of a namespace, PHP just doesn't grow very well. |
| 20:28.57 | dataw0lf | So, for amateurish, small websites, it can be pretty fun. |
| 20:29.02 | sjansen | addslashes() <-- WTF? lack of good DB abstraction (think perl DBI or Java JDBC) leads to the creation of a function that doesn't even product valid SQL escaping |
| 20:29.03 | Lone_Wanderer | If you should never ever do it, why is it there just waiting to be used? |
| 20:29.07 | dataw0lf | But if you really want to write a large application, PHP is absolutely not the way to go. |
| 20:29.39 | Lone_Wanderer | by a cluttered namespace |
| 20:29.41 | dataw0lf | And the bad design can be seen in PHP 5 too. |
| 20:29.44 | Jayce^ | great link dataw0lf, hadn't seen that one |
| 20:29.53 | dataw0lf | Instead of adding namespaces, they add extended 'OOP' |
| 20:29.59 | Lone_Wanderer | do you mean the amount of functions that are available at any given time? |
| 20:30.02 | dataw0lf | so people continue to use class hacks to manage their namespaces |
| 20:30.19 | dataw0lf | Jayce^: yea, it's pretty nice. I love the median function name lengths there with PHP versus Perl |
| 20:30.31 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: I mean that in a script, you have all those functions in the main namespace. |
| 20:30.38 | Jayce^ | Lone_Wanderer, think about phone numbers... think if we did away with the concept of an area code, or prefix.. |
| 20:30.40 | Lone_Wanderer | I was under the impression that a namespace was more or less the same as "variable scope"... |
| 20:31.22 | sjansen | other PHP escaping routines <-- I can just see the thought process: "This data could have security implications. Instead of designing things to eliminate the risk, let's make programmers remember when to escape." |
| 20:31.30 | dataw0lf | Meaning that as a PHP application grows larger, the chances of you stepping on those names, or stepping on another developers names, becomes a huge risk |
| 20:32.01 | dataw0lf | So let's say you have a utils.php file that you include in your scripts. |
| 20:32.19 | dataw0lf | And another developer on your team is working on say, a file.php for file manipulation routines |
| 20:32.32 | dataw0lf | And you both have a function with the same name |
| 20:32.36 | dataw0lf | Which is very plausible |
| 20:32.47 | dataw0lf | In PHP, you have no way of separating those files into different namespaces |
| 20:32.49 | Lone_Wanderer | okay |
| 20:32.55 | dataw0lf | it all goes into the same mucky main namespace that everyone in PHP uses. |
| 20:32.58 | Lone_Wanderer | and other languages give you ways to do that? |
| 20:33.02 | dataw0lf | Of course. |
| 20:33.05 | Lone_Wanderer | oh |
| 20:33.14 | dataw0lf | Python: |
| 20:33.18 | Lone_Wanderer | I thought that was a problem all languages had |
| 20:33.18 | dataw0lf | import files, utils |
| 20:33.23 | sjansen | PHP is addictive. You Perl is good for creating quick hacks? PHP is better. But with Perl, bad application design starts to be painful after a few hundred lines. PHP keeps the pain threshold just low enough, that you spend forever thinking "just one more hack will fix this problem and we'll be golden." |
| 20:33.27 | dataw0lf | you then access it with files.function |
| 20:33.38 | Lone_Wanderer | cool |
| 20:33.42 | dataw0lf | you can clutter your main namespace in Python with |
| 20:33.47 | dataw0lf | from files import * |
| 20:33.56 | dataw0lf | but it isn't the standard behavior, you have to explicitely tell it to do so. |
| 20:33.57 | Lone_Wanderer | wait |
| 20:33.59 | dataw0lf | And so on with other languages |
| 20:34.04 | Lone_Wanderer | is it <filename>.function? |
| 20:34.14 | dataw0lf | well, technically <modulename>.function |
| 20:34.17 | Lone_Wanderer | ok |
| 20:34.27 | Lone_Wanderer | 'cause if it was just files.function then you'd have the same problem :p |
| 20:34.37 | dataw0lf | well I used files as what I imported it as |
| 20:34.38 | dataw0lf | import files |
| 20:34.41 | dataw0lf | files.function() |
| 20:34.44 | dataw0lf | import utils |
| 20:34.45 | levi | Common Lisp has packages to solve that problem. Some Schemes have module systems for it. Probably the first language to have a system like that was Wirth's Modula language, but I'm not certain about that. |
| 20:34.47 | dataw0lf | utils.function() |
| 20:34.47 | Lone_Wanderer | so files is now the module name? |
| 20:34.54 | Lone_Wanderer | okay |
| 20:34.55 | dataw0lf | files is the module name |
| 20:34.57 | dataw0lf | you imported it |
| 20:34.59 | dataw0lf | the files module |
| 20:35.00 | dataw0lf | jeez |
| 20:35.15 | Lone_Wanderer | I'm pretty sure that's what I said :p |
| 20:35.19 | dataw0lf | I'm comparing it to PHP, where you'd require or include a files.php file. |
| 20:35.35 | dataw0lf | and it wouldn't have a separate namespace, it would get thrown into your main namespace. |
| 20:35.39 | Lone_Wanderer | yeah |
| 20:35.47 | dataw0lf | To me, this is one of the biggest problems PHP has. |
| 20:36.15 | dataw0lf | And why when PHP programmers say that Perl breaks down for enterprise applications, it makes me laugh |
| 20:36.24 | levi | A problem it shares with C, in fact. |
| 20:36.34 | dataw0lf | Indeed. |
| 20:36.35 | Lone_Wanderer | the source of confusion is the use of the word "files", which is a bit ambiguous - I don't know if "files" is a python function or something. |
| 20:36.45 | dataw0lf | No, it was just an example module I was using |
| 20:36.48 | Lone_Wanderer | k |
| 20:36.59 | dataw0lf | in comparison to what I said earlier about PHP. |
| 20:37.03 | Lone_Wanderer | yeah |
| 20:37.15 | dataw0lf | brb, server trouble |
| 20:37.21 | Lone_Wanderer | Great. Just got an email. |
| 20:37.42 | Lone_Wanderer | "We're taking over code written by a different team. These problems need to be fixed now." |
| 20:38.06 | sjansen | The PHP community (used to) have a serious case of NIH. Thankfully, thinks are finally improving with Pear. |
| 20:38.29 | dataw0lf | yea. |
| 20:38.50 | dataw0lf | I still begrudge the PHP development team for not dealing with the namespace issue in 5 |
| 20:39.04 | dataw0lf | instead, they 'improved' the OOP model. |
| 20:40.40 | dataw0lf | I just recently wrote a PHP extension model to add some sort of namespace behavior to PHP 4, but it was more an exercise to learn the API rather than any sort of real solution. |
| 20:41.23 | Lone_Wanderer | what's NIH? |
| 20:41.59 | sjansen | Not Invented Here(tm) |
| 20:42.03 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh |
| 20:42.06 | dataw0lf | not invented here |
| 20:42.31 | Lone_Wanderer | I'm so happy. I finally have a concrete example of why having shell access is handy. |
| 20:43.09 | dataw0lf | wow. what, uh, finally proved that shell access is handy? |
| 20:43.17 | Lone_Wanderer | Boss: "You can do anything in Windows that you can on the Unix command line." Me: "No... no, not really." Boss: "Give me an example." Me: "I... can't think of one off the top of my head :(" |
| 20:43.55 | dataw0lf | um |
| 20:43.58 | dataw0lf | heh |
| 20:45.22 | sjansen | Here's a simple one: Edit 1000 XML files adding <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?> to the top, but only if it isn't there. |
| 20:45.41 | dataw0lf | just tape this to your forehead: exec 3>&1; grep string file 2>&1 1>&3 | sed s/exp/new/ 1>&2 |
| 20:45.56 | sjansen | Step two, edit those same 1000 XML files adding <!-- Copyright Foo --> to the second line, but only if it isn't already there. |
| 20:46.02 | maquis | Lone_Wanderer: also, the speed is a factor |
| 20:46.31 | maquis | i mean... technically, you *could* do sjansen's example in windows |
| 20:46.47 | maquis | it would just be really painful |
| 20:46.48 | graphyx | sjansen: wouldn't it be best to just add those two lines at the same time? |
| 20:47.06 | dataw0lf | maquis: well, you could do it pretty easily if you had access to an *gasp* open source scripting language. |
| 20:47.08 | sjansen | I solved each of those problems in under 5 minutes (including carefull testing) |
| 20:47.22 | maquis | dataw0lf: that's true as well... |
| 20:47.28 | sjansen | graphyx: Of course, but you're assuming the decision to add them was made at the same time. |
| 20:48.04 | dataw0lf | but I'll assume we're just talking about bare accessories, a modern Unix shell versus Windows point and click |
| 20:48.11 | sjansen | dataw0lf: True... |
| 20:48.36 | maquis | dataw0lf: i'll still saythat you *could* do that task in windoze |
| 20:48.40 | dataw0lf | because honestly, I use sed and the like for relatively simple stuff but if it grows beyond that I just bust out the Python prompt |
| 20:48.50 | dataw0lf | maquis: oh, sure. |
| 20:48.57 | maquis | i pity the fool who would end up with that job... |
| 20:49.12 | dataw0lf | that's what jr sys admins are for. |
| 20:49.22 | maquis | i've seen people do similar things (on a slightly smaller scale) with point and click (and copy and paste) on windows |
| 20:49.24 | Jayce^ | maquis pities the fool? :) |
| 20:49.32 | dataw0lf | maquis needs some heavy gold chains |
| 20:49.38 | dataw0lf | and a mohawk |
| 20:49.47 | Jayce^ | and the beard |
| 20:49.49 | dataw0lf | rol |
| 20:50.01 | maquis | i've even seen it done by the people who don't know about ctrl-c and ctrl-v (and even worse, some who didn't realize that a copy lasts for more than one paste) |
| 20:50.09 | dataw0lf | ... |
| 20:50.12 | sjansen | You have 5 seconds. Write a program that replaces “ with ", ” with ", ‘ with ', ’ with ', fi with fi. |
| 20:50.44 | dataw0lf | man I can't tell what you're doing there with this font. |
| 20:51.31 | graphyx | sjansen: I think the main issue with that is differentiating the different ticks. |
| 20:51.38 | emcnabb | or: you have 1,000 files in a directory. They all contain space. Replace the filenames so they have '_' instead of spaces |
| 20:51.50 | sjansen | replacing "smart" quotes with straight quotes and replacing a ligature with the full version |
| 20:51.59 | dataw0lf | ah |
| 20:52.21 | dataw0lf | emcnabb: yea, 3 seconds in Unix, unimaginable time in Windows. |
| 20:52.37 | emcnabb | dataw0lf: exactly |
| 20:52.56 | dataw0lf | my jr admins have to do that relatively often here. |
| 20:53.16 | dataw0lf | so we just busted out a Python 'multirename' script for em. |
| 20:53.38 | dataw0lf | it gets quite a bit of use, alot of people around here were afraid to approach us with such a 'menial' task |
| 20:53.48 | dataw0lf | so they'd spend upwards of an hour wasting time doing it by hand. |
| 20:53.58 | maquis | youch |
| 20:54.00 | emcnabb | or, find all the files on the system that end in .mp3, and move them to /pirated |
| 20:54.10 | maquis | emcnabb: haha |
| 20:54.12 | dataw0lf | hehe |
| 20:55.23 | emcnabb | Lone_Wanderer: just tell your boss "if the shell is so obsolete, why is MS developing Monad?" |
| 20:55.27 | maquis | what about "every night, remove all files that have a .foo extension" |
| 20:58.14 | dataw0lf | that brings up a question, DOES Windows have anything that's at least semi equivalent to cron? |
| 20:58.58 | RyanE | dataw0lf: to have something that's semi-equivalent with cron, a machine has to stay up for more than 24 hours. :) |
| 20:58.59 | dataw0lf | I'm in a good position where even as a sys admin I don't have to deal with Windows much due to the fact that our Unix workstations outnumber our Windows workstations. |
| 20:59.09 | dataw0lf | RyanE: haha. +1 |
| 21:00.08 | RyanE | dataw0lf: also explain why I've only ever met you (an anti-PHP-ite) at the UPHPU BBQ? :) |
| 21:00.09 | emcnabb | Their cron-style system has two fields: "MinuteOfHour HourOfDay" |
| 21:00.25 | goozbach | for a "monitored" phone number 50minutes seems like a lot of time to call someone back |
| 21:00.34 | dataw0lf | RyanE: I certainly said that I enjoy using PHP sometimes. |
| 21:00.41 | dataw0lf | RyanE: And I've done some PHP contracts. |
| 21:00.47 | RyanE | fair enough |
| 21:00.53 | Lone_Wanderer | what's monad? |
| 21:00.55 | RyanE | that, and you like BBQs. |
| 21:01.05 | dataw0lf | But I still recognize that PHP is a poorly designed language |
| 21:01.07 | dataw0lf | RyanE: too true |
| 21:01.08 | RyanE | Lone_Wanderer: Windows shell |
| 21:01.57 | emcnabb | Lone_Wanderer: they're finally realizing they need to have a real shell, because customers... gasp... need it |
| 21:02.12 | emcnabb | there's actually a Monad O'Reilly book out |
| 21:02.24 | emcnabb | I read a bit of it a few days ago at Barnes and Noble |
| 21:03.02 | emcnabb | http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/msh/ |
| 21:03.03 | brac | [oreilly.com -- Online Catalog: Monad, First Edition] |
| 21:03.56 | emcnabb | Lone_Wanderer: if you want to see how to do any of the examples we mentioned earlier, let us know |
| 21:03.57 | sjansen | The Monad is built on top of .Net; as a result, of its interesting features is easy (supposedly) extensibility. It has some other cool ideas too. |
| 21:04.28 | dataw0lf | Hm, looks pretty interesting. |
| 21:04.31 | dataw0lf | danke |
| 21:04.36 | sjansen | The Monad shell is built on top of .Net; as a result, one of its interesting features is easy (supposedly) extensibility. It has some other cool ideas too. |
| 21:04.38 | emcnabb | the book was actually pretty thin; a lot was about "what's in store for Monad" |
| 21:05.26 | dataw0lf | Microsoft loves to talk about what their results WILL be. Although they trouble acknowledging the actual results, in many cases. |
| 21:05.31 | dataw0lf | have* |
| 21:05.41 | emcnabb | well, off to the airport |
| 21:05.43 | flyboy^ | For me the power of a shell is realized when I start connecting programs with |. I'm not sure how to do that in Windows - but I'm not really a MS guru. |
| 21:06.26 | dataw0lf | flyboy^: Well said. That's the true power of the Unix shell. Not the individual commands themselves, but rather piping and redirection. |
| 21:06.38 | levi | flyboy^: From what I've gathered, you can link .net objects and have the results come out in a db-like form that you can perform queries on. |
| 21:06.47 | sjansen | Windows doesn't really have a strong heritage of stdin/stdout use. That's part of the reason Monad is built on .Net, in hopes of achieving application scriptability similar to AppleScript. |
| 21:07.01 | flyboy^ | You can do redirection in DOS can't you? |
| 21:07.16 | flyboy^ | Maybe you can | too, but I'm not sure. |
| 21:07.17 | levi | Yup. |
| 21:07.23 | levi | And you can pipe stuff. |
| 21:07.33 | levi | At least, I used to type foo.txt | more all the time |
| 21:07.41 | dataw0lf | you can pipe in DOS? |
| 21:07.46 | dataw0lf | *boggles* |
| 21:08.21 | emcnabb | here's an example I showed students in class this week. Basically, cut out all the IP addrs from the Apache logs, and create a list of the top 15 addresses to visit the site: |
| 21:08.24 | emcnabb | # cat evan.mcnabbs.org-access_log* | cut -f 1 -d " " |sort |uniq -c |sort -n -r |head -n 15 |
| 21:08.24 | flyboy^ | Thinking about it, I guess it's all those little GNU utils that REALLY make it work - isn't it? |
| 21:08.26 | jlp_work | in dos, a pipe was implemented as a temporary file |
| 21:08.36 | levi | People used to trot out the power of the DOS command line as an argument against Macs. |
| 21:09.05 | emcnabb | it got the point across |
| 21:09.57 | levi | We may laugh at that now, but there were no free UNIX clones readily available at the time. |
| 21:10.25 | dataw0lf | My first adventures as a programmer and computer user were on a HP-UX machine. |
| 21:11.05 | dataw0lf | so I certainly remember the pain of having to use cc remotely via telnet |
| 21:11.46 | jlp_work | pain? |
| 21:12.08 | sjansen | Man, I remember back in the mid-nineties when I met a kid using this FreeBSD Unix thing. I was a Mac user. A couple years later, I wanted to try this Linux thing, but it wouldn't work on my hardware. |
| 21:12.12 | dataw0lf | yes, when I was 13 and using my Dad's mac to access his student shell at Northwestern. |
| 21:12.13 | sjansen | I could have been so l33t! |
| 21:12.38 | emcnabb | the first Unix system I had in my house was an Okidata unix box |
| 21:12.59 | flyboy^ | I later learned that someone was running Linux at East High School in '91. I had no idea. |
| 21:13.01 | emcnabb | the monitor weighed as much as a Yugo |
| 21:13.01 | dataw0lf | mine was a Slackware box when I finally decided to stomach Linux because I was tired of the lag. |
| 21:13.19 | dataw0lf | a year later, I found one of the first releases of Debian and never looked back :) |
| 21:13.19 | Lone_Wanderer | does anyone know if there's a place in Salt Lake where someone could get free classroom space (or just free space where people can sit around and talk, period) to teach a free class on programming? |
| 21:13.31 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: Perhaps the Library. |
| 21:13.39 | Lone_Wanderer | calling them now :) |
| 21:13.49 | emcnabb | the park? |
| 21:13.57 | dataw0lf | in February? |
| 21:13.57 | emcnabb | just make sure to bundle up |
| 21:13.58 | flyboy^ | Lone_Wanderer: Many libraries do have that option. Also - local civic/rec centers. |
| 21:13.59 | Lone_Wanderer | the library |
| 21:14.00 | jlp_work | dataw0lf: my first Unix experience was on a VAX-11/750 in college... dialing up with a 300bps modem. now that was pain. |
| 21:14.22 | dataw0lf | jlp_work: Well I guess pain is relative. If you want to get into a pissing contest about who hurt worse, I'll decline. |
| 21:14.58 | jlp_work | nah, I'm just saying that pain is in the eye of the beholder |
| 21:15.04 | dataw0lf | right, relative. |
| 21:15.24 | dataw0lf | rather, in the eye of the receiver. |
| 21:15.27 | jlp_work | I remember when I bought my first 1200bps modem... wow, the speed was incredible (and it was only 4 times as fast as the 300) |
| 21:15.59 | jlp_work | my friends were all raving about how they had their own computers (VIC-20) while I was just using a terminal |
| 21:16.09 | dataw0lf | that's great. |
| 21:16.20 | jlp_work | I pointed out to them that the VIC-20 had a 23 column screen while my terminal had 80x24 :-) |
| 21:17.02 | levi | I didn't get a modem until they were 2400bps. |
| 21:17.17 | levi | But, boy, I spent a lot of time on BBSs after that! |
| 21:17.39 | Lone_Wanderer | cool, the library does offer space |
| 21:18.12 | Mister_Ed | anyone remember the modems where you placed the phone receiver into the cradle, or does that date me too much? |
| 21:18.25 | jlp_work | oh yeah, I've used them |
| 21:18.26 | flyboy^ | Mister_Ed: Those were cool. |
| 21:18.29 | jlp_work | in high school |
| 21:18.37 | jlp_work | early '80s |
| 21:18.42 | jlp_work | 110bps, baby |
| 21:18.45 | Mister_Ed | yep and late 70's fer me |
| 21:18.57 | dataw0lf | I was born in the early 80s! |
| 21:19.04 | Mister_Ed | you were really cool if you knew how to use one .. lol |
| 21:19.06 | jlp_work | we had this room full of TTY33s... loud |
| 21:19.21 | hatchmt | 2400 was good, but when I first fired up a 14400 with v.32bis data compression (or was that just v.32? I forget), wow... I could play Legend of the Red Dragon for HOURS on that thing! :) |
| 21:19.40 | levi | Mister_Ed: Acoustic coupler modems! I never used one, but they were still sold when I first got a modem. |
| 21:20.29 | Mister_Ed | dataw0lf: I feel old now :) |
| 21:20.45 | dataw0lf | yea. 1982. I'm a young un. |
| 21:20.56 | dataw0lf | I feel like I'm 40 though, does that make you feel better? |
| 21:20.57 | dataw0lf | :) |
| 21:20.57 | Mister_Ed | that is okay |
| 21:21.42 | Mister_Ed | not really, I felt that way too once. but having a daughter in college and comparing ancient technology makes ya keenly aware of the time warp |
| 21:21.59 | dataw0lf | Hehe. I bet. |
| 21:22.52 | Mister_Ed | funny thing is, I feel like I'm 20 sumtin, then look in the mirror and I'm shocked to find an old dude (a word from my cali surfing days ... lol) |
| 21:23.34 | dataw0lf | you're lucky. I feel drained emotionally and physically alot, especially during the winter. |
| 21:24.00 | Mister_Ed | really? get a sun lamp. might help |
| 21:24.07 | Mister_Ed | and excercise |
| 21:24.23 | Mister_Ed | and typing fast don't count |
| 21:24.25 | dataw0lf | hehe, I get alot of exercise. |
| 21:24.43 | dataw0lf | but I think my knees are giving out. |
| 21:24.54 | flyboy^ | Great pictures on the history of computing: http://www.rwc.uc.edu/koehler/cshist.html |
| 21:24.57 | levi | dataw0lf: Take up cycling! |
| 21:25.43 | dataw0lf | levi: I've actually been thinking that. I was running my daily 5 mile the other day and almost busted my head open after I hit a patch of ice. |
| 21:25.50 | levi | Ow. |
| 21:25.58 | Mister_Ed | levi: I do that my self while watching the history channel (converted a bike to stationary for winter) |
| 21:25.59 | dataw0lf | yea, thankfully I only ripped up my hands. |
| 21:26.19 | levi | Well, at least when you hit a patch of ice on a bike, you will (hopefully) be wearing a helmet. |
| 21:26.50 | dataw0lf | yea. I need to take up swimming too, I just got over my temporary fear of water of late so that's opened up for me. |
| 21:26.56 | levi | I ride with a group of guys at work. We do indoor cycling during the winter, and occasionally some outdoor rides when the weather isn't too bad. |
| 21:27.14 | levi | Outdoor cycling is way more fun, though. |
| 21:27.18 | dataw0lf | definitely. |
| 21:27.32 | Mister_Ed | it is, but more convenient for me indoors during winter |
| 21:27.49 | Mister_Ed | I'm old and takes forever to get dressed now |
| 21:27.53 | mrpull-_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:27.54 | levi | Just this Wednesday we had a nice little loop around the corner canyon area in Draper during lunch. That was FUN, though I'm out of shape. |
| 21:28.00 | mrpull-_ | I think it was in brazil |
| 21:28.07 | dataw0lf | mrpull-_: nope. |
| 21:28.11 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@hfugal.NMSU.Edu) |
| 21:28.21 | mrpull-_ | ahhh... maybe it was in wired |
| 21:28.55 | levi | Mister_Ed: There's a guy working here who's probably your age that cycles during lunch every day the weather permits. He used to be kinda slow, but he kicked my butt endurance-wise this last ride. :) |
| 21:29.05 | mrpull-_ | http://www.busbike.com.br/ |
| 21:29.06 | brac | [Bus Bike] |
| 21:30.00 | Lone_Wanderer | well |
| 21:30.07 | Mister_Ed | lokay, i'm not that old, but my body thinks it is compared to when i played football and ran track in HS and college |
| 21:30.11 | Lone_Wanderer | my boss is going to get set up with an irc client before I go home today |
| 21:30.17 | Lone_Wanderer | I'll point him here |
| 21:30.22 | Lone_Wanderer | so you can talk to him directly |
| 21:32.12 | Mister_Ed | anyone in here worked with samba and geting windows schtuff to recognize the shared files on the samba server automagically? or is ti mission impossible to see the files without a manual login? |
| 21:34.51 | mrpull-_ | Mister_Ed: yes, but a long time ago... i've gone to the darkside for file servers |
| 21:34.51 | elg | how do you mean recognize? |
| 21:35.05 | dataw0lf | Mister_Ed: Yes, I have. |
| 21:35.21 | dataw0lf | which version of Samba do you have? |
| 21:35.30 | Mister_Ed | in windows terms, you pull up the file exploder thingy and you see them much like you would in the peer to peer settings |
| 21:35.33 | dataw0lf | and what Windows client? |
| 21:35.55 | Mister_Ed | some 98se and xp |
| 21:36.28 | *** join/#utah jnbek (n=jnbek@c-67-166-97-223.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 21:36.35 | Mister_Ed | I'm tryng to get sales and accounting on nix boxes but this is last step to making them all collaborate |
| 21:36.44 | *** join/#utah Hhhhh (n=zic@128.187.81.240) |
| 21:36.46 | Mister_Ed | with design dept |
| 21:36.58 | dataw0lf | which version of Samba? |
| 21:37.18 | dataw0lf | 3? |
| 21:37.21 | Mister_Ed | I'm not sitting oin front of the box, but it's very recent |
| 21:37.42 | dataw0lf | is it the domain controller? |
| 21:37.46 | Mister_Ed | sorry not sure without taking 10 minutes between questions to go look |
| 21:37.49 | Mister_Ed | no |
| 21:37.52 | Mister_Ed | the router is |
| 21:38.01 | dataw0lf | so it's just a domain member? |
| 21:38.07 | Mister_Ed | yes |
| 21:38.41 | dataw0lf | how are you doing authentication? |
| 21:39.33 | Mister_Ed | just passwords |
| 21:39.37 | Hhhhh | talking about samba, I mounted my Windows shares at home onto my Zaurus |
| 21:41.49 | dataw0lf | man, I haven't had to setup Samba or mess with it for a while, one sec |
| 21:42.57 | Mister_Ed | well I monkeyed with it 9 months ago and got it to work (same box) but now I'm not sure why it can't see it without manually typing in the IP addy every time now |
| 21:43.20 | dataw0lf | oh, wait, you can't even browse to the machine? |
| 21:43.36 | dataw0lf | like, how do you mount the network shares? |
| 21:43.58 | dataw0lf | can you right click on my computer and browse to a specific samba share via Mount Network Drive? |
| 21:43.58 | Mister_Ed | yes |
| 21:44.09 | dataw0lf | or whatever the option is |
| 21:44.27 | dataw0lf | Map Network Drive |
| 21:44.32 | Mister_Ed | oh you mean on the winders side? |
| 21:45.09 | dataw0lf | yea, are you talking about mounting it from a *nix box? |
| 21:45.28 | Mister_Ed | sorry, got the signal confuzzeled |
| 21:45.42 | dataw0lf | hehe, let's start over |
| 21:45.49 | dataw0lf | what exactly do you want on the Windows side to happen? |
| 21:47.24 | Mister_Ed | see the directories set aside on the linux server for sharing info. basically see then as a logical drive that you can click on and go... as if it were a windows network drive or dir |
| 21:47.43 | Mister_Ed | make sense? my lingo is a bit diff from most admins and programmers I know |
| 21:47.59 | Mister_Ed | lol |
| 21:48.24 | dataw0lf | I'm confused, on the Windows side you want to see them as a network drive? |
| 21:48.25 | Mister_Ed | I have to do this for some people that barely know where the power switch is |
| 21:49.12 | Mister_Ed | you know how a directory or file can be set as shared, and all others will see it onthe network (p2p) |
| 21:49.19 | dataw0lf | Right. |
| 21:49.22 | Mister_Ed | well need to do sumtin similar |
| 21:49.34 | Mister_Ed | so they can see the files on the server |
| 21:49.34 | dataw0lf | on the windows client, can you see the Samba server? |
| 21:49.41 | Mister_Ed | yep |
| 21:49.46 | dataw0lf | Like, right click on the My Computer icon, go to Map Network Drive, and can you map the drive? |
| 21:49.56 | dataw0lf | is that what you want? |
| 21:50.23 | dataw0lf | or do you want them just to appear in the 'Shared' area |
| 21:52.24 | Mister_Ed | either or. jsut need a solution. I think the map drive is the thing I couldn't find. but the question is, if server is turned off, does it need to be remapped on every windoz machine? |
| 21:54.07 | dataw0lf | it should automap it |
| 21:55.07 | Mister_Ed | cool thanks. now that my memory is jogged a bit on the windoz stuff I'll give it a whirl. |
| 21:55.33 | mheath | Bah |
| 21:55.36 | mheath | ~lart Microsoft Money |
| 21:58.37 | Mister_Ed | so far so good. it's always the little simple things that bite the hardest |
| 21:59.14 | Mister_Ed | used to be getting pin one lined up on FDD drives |
| 21:59.54 | Mister_Ed | thanks dataw0lf |
| 22:11.42 | Lone_Wanderer | Wow. |
| 22:11.46 | Lone_Wanderer | I really don't know anything at all. |
| 22:11.58 | Lone_Wanderer | This statistics page is giving me a headache and I'm only barely into it. |
| 22:14.33 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: The one I gave a link to, or something else? |
| 22:18.25 | dataw0lf | Hopefully the PHP one I gave him. |
| 22:18.44 | dataw0lf | who here uses X-Chat besides me? |
| 22:23.23 | dataw0lf | just trying to get a quick consensus |
| 22:23.27 | dataw0lf | jlp_work: What OS do you use it on? |
| 22:24.08 | jlp_work | linux at work, freebsd at home |
| 22:24.47 | dataw0lf | which Linux? |
| 22:26.51 | jlp_work | gentoo |
| 22:30.48 | dataw0lf | gotcha |
| 22:33.05 | Mister_Ed | I'm using x-chat |
| 22:36.22 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 22:49.04 | *** join/#utah amcnabb (n=amcnabb@c-24-10-236-93.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 22:52.11 | elg | ~rlart |
| 22:52.32 | elg | traitor |
| 22:56.56 | levi | Heh. |
| 22:57.07 | maquis | :-P |
| 22:57.26 | goozbach | I HATE O'Hare |
| 22:57.39 | goozbach | hour delay |
| 22:58.24 | goozbach | I ran and ran to et here and there's an hour delay |
| 23:00.02 | mrpull-_ | i'd like to timeshift some radio programs to my mp3 player... has anybody tried any existing apps to do this? |
| 23:01.51 | maquis | goozbach: ick |
| 23:05.32 | elg | mrpull-_: you have a radio capture card? |
| 23:05.43 | elg | or are you thinking internet streams/ |
| 23:07.04 | levi | elg: Radio capture 'card' = radio with headphone jack and a patch cable. |
| 23:07.31 | elg | ha, good point |
| 23:07.49 | elg | seems like a simple bash script would do |
| 23:08.08 | *** join/#utah MisterEd (n=Mister_E@70-56-103-50.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 23:08.23 | levi | It's not like you've got a nice signal to try to protect or anything. :) |
| 23:08.42 | elg | use sox or ecasound to record, dump to stdout, pipe to oggenc |
| 23:09.04 | elg | or lame or whatever |
| 23:09.18 | elg | name the file using date |
| 23:09.29 | elg | then stick the script in cron or at |
| 23:10.06 | elg | levi: it does take manual tuning though. so it's of limited usefulness if you want to record from multiple stations |
| 23:10.29 | elg | unless you are really good at remembering to do things like change stations, and the schedule is convenient |
| 23:11.03 | levi | True. |
| 23:11.31 | levi | You could probably hack something up with a radio that has a remote control, though. |
| 23:20.12 | RyanE | if you have a bttv card with radio input, there are also scripts available. I've done that before. |
| 23:22.46 | mrpull-_ | internet streams |
| 23:23.50 | mrpull-_ | one of my old favorites isn't on SLC radio anymore... it'd be nice to automatically grab the mp3s |
| 23:24.13 | mrpull-_ | and even better, wrap them up in an RSS stream that I can subscribe to in iTunes |
| 23:24.40 | mrpull-_ | i know griffin has a usb fm recorder |
| 23:25.45 | elg | a script that fires up mplayer with the right incantation, again piping through an encoder |
| 23:26.16 | goozbach | space monkeys |
| 23:26.33 | goozbach | those are cool |
| 23:29.44 | dataw0lf | Captain Simian? |
| 23:30.26 | goozbach | ^loser |
| 23:30.31 | goozbach | :) |
| 23:31.02 | sjansen | s/stuff/stuck/ |
| 23:31.14 | dataw0lf | sjansen: ah, cool. I just was going to see if anyone specifically had X-Chat on Windows or OS X so once I'm finished with this plugin to see if they could test it |
| 23:32.00 | goozbach | seeing the country and whatnot |
| 23:32.10 | dataw0lf | where ya at right now? |
| 23:32.29 | dataw0lf | maquis: hehe |
| 23:32.29 | goozbach | meeting cute females on the plane... etc. |
| 23:32.42 | goozbach | chicago |
| 23:32.49 | dataw0lf | oh yea |
| 23:32.51 | dataw0lf | Chicago rocks |
| 23:34.47 | goozbach | and I'm ofically canceled |
| 23:34.57 | goozbach | er my flight is |
| 23:35.03 | dataw0lf | hey, more time in Chicago! |
| 23:35.24 | jnbek | <<--- also an xchat user |
| 23:35.33 | MisterEd | x-chat on xp laptop |
| 23:35.57 | goozbach | yeah but I need to get home I got tickets to the Cake concert |
| 23:36.15 | dataw0lf | word. I'm writing a pcap interface plugin for X-Chat, I'll forward it to you guys when it's finished. |
| 23:36.16 | jnbek | i use it exclusively, this is my FreeBSD desktop, i also use it on SuSE-10 and XP |
| 23:36.37 | goozbach | I _HATE_ this airport. |
| 23:36.38 | jnbek | cool, thx dataw0lf |
| 23:36.45 | dataw0lf | http://dataw0lf.org/ircsniff.txt |
| 23:37.11 | dataw0lf | not really usable, you can just grab the latest packet with /sniff display |
| 23:37.33 | dataw0lf | but I'm adding a live display functionality, statistic collection, and stream reconstruction this weekend. |
| 23:38.04 | goozbach | too much time on your hands ? |
| 23:38.08 | goozbach | :) |
| 23:38.17 | dataw0lf | hehe, yup. |
| 23:38.40 | dataw0lf | I've been getting bored with my main personal project of late so I needed something to unwind on. |
| 23:38.54 | dataw0lf | wait for the excitement to build again |
| 23:39.18 | *** join/#utah bonez39 (n=bonez@drjones.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 23:39.40 | goozbach | you know python? |
| 23:40.09 | goozbach | I could use some help on my project |
| 23:41.26 | dataw0lf | Yeah, I've been using Python for a long time. |
| 23:42.03 | dataw0lf | I gotta leave right now, but email some details at digitalsuicide [at] gmail [dot] com, I'm always down to help on Python projects and spread the 'word' |
| 23:42.14 | dataw0lf | but work is over, cya guys |
| 23:42.21 | goozbach | www.yumamp.com |
| 23:48.29 | maquis | ooh... that sounds cool |
| 23:48.38 | maquis | although... yum sucks |
| 23:49.05 | maquis | apt is a lot nicer imho |
| 23:49.49 | goozbach | apt is older |
| 23:49.50 | Tene | howso? |
| 23:50.02 | goozbach | but yum no longer sucks |
| 23:50.06 | sjansen | apt can't deal with multi-arch platforms |
| 23:50.18 | goozbach | it used to, but not anymore |
| 23:50.27 | maquis | goozbach: why does yum have to go connect to every repository before you can install something that it already knows about? |
| 23:50.35 | Tene | maquis: it doesn't |
| 23:50.40 | Tene | it just does that by default |
| 23:50.49 | maquis | and if it can't reach one repository, why can't it just ignore that repository and move on with life? |
| 23:50.49 | goozbach | yum -C |
| 23:50.59 | elg | that's a brain-dead default |
| 23:51.00 | maquis | ah |
| 23:51.13 | goozbach | and yum make-cache |
| 23:51.16 | maquis | that bugged me non-stop for the 4 months i ran fc4 |
| 23:52.25 | goozbach | bou're a BSD user now so you don't count. :P |
| 23:52.32 | goozbach | er but |
| 23:52.44 | maquis | i'm a bsd user on one box |
| 23:52.56 | *** join/#utah jnbek (n=jnbek@c-67-166-97-223.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |