| 00:09.53 | hans | cool, omd rebanded |
| 00:12.09 | Jayce^ | oohhh, link hans? |
| 00:12.25 | hans | http://www.omd.uk.com/html/news.html |
| 00:12.26 | brac | [OMD NEWS : JANUARY 2006] |
| 00:12.50 | hans | tour and new album to come |
| 00:56.51 | *** join/#utah RyanE_ (n=ryan@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 00:59.17 | sjansen | Oh, man, I've got to do algebra. :-( |
| 01:00.38 | jsmith | sjansen: All I remember is the commutitive rule... the rule that says its time to commute back home from work... |
| 01:01.32 | maquis | sjansen: just be glad it's not calc |
| 01:03.42 | sjansen | Given some points, I need to find the point of intersection of two lines. |
| 01:04.06 | maquis | sjansen: what kinda calculator do you have? |
| 01:04.09 | sjansen | I know I can do this, but I've apparently done a pretty good job of burying the memory. |
| 01:04.21 | sjansen | A linux laptop. |
| 01:05.02 | maquis | sjansen: are they lines, or are they curves? |
| 01:05.22 | sjansen | lines |
| 01:05.28 | maquis | sjansen: oh... that's easy |
| 01:05.37 | maquis | find the slope of the line (rise / run) |
| 01:05.39 | sjansen | I know. I'm pathetic. |
| 01:05.50 | maquis | then figure out where, based on that, it will go through the y-axis |
| 01:06.08 | maquis | do the same for the other set of points |
| 01:06.45 | maquis | now, make the y=mx + b equations for both lines, set them equal to each other, and solve for x |
| 01:07.11 | maquis | plug that x back into the two original equations, and ensure that y is the same for both (error-checking) |
| 01:07.12 | sjansen | ('course it doesn't help that I'm trying to hack an SVG file by hand) |
| 01:07.33 | maquis | then, (x,y) is your point of intersection |
| 01:07.53 | maquis | sjansen: did i make any sense? |
| 01:08.11 | sjansen | I'm still trying to find the points. I'll read what you wrote in a bit. |
| 01:08.28 | maquis | oh... you're still finding the points? |
| 01:08.29 | maquis | ok |
| 01:08.44 | maquis | if, when you get there, the explanation doesn't make sense, let me know :) |
| 01:11.26 | sjansen | Better yet, maquis do you have a calculator? |
| 01:12.26 | sjansen | (7,47)->(42,3) and (14,3)->(25.65625,18.53125) |
| 01:13.14 | Tene | ibot does |
| 01:13.16 | ibot | rumour has it, does is the present third singular of do |
| 01:13.17 | Tene | ibot: math 5+6 |
| 01:13.23 | Tene | I thought... |
| 01:13.24 | Tene | ibot: math |
| 01:13.31 | Tene | hmm |
| 01:13.32 | Tene | I lose |
| 01:13.54 | maquis | ~5+6 |
| 01:13.55 | ibot | 11 |
| 01:13.59 | Tene | heh |
| 01:14.10 | maquis | http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060116-5988.html |
| 01:14.12 | Tene | I usually just use python |
| 01:14.14 | graphyx_home | ~2+x=6 x? |
| 01:14.36 | maquis | sjansen: i don't remember how the calculator does that... |
| 01:14.38 | graphyx_home | ~2+x=6;x= |
| 01:14.53 | graphyx_home | what no algebra? |
| 01:15.02 | maquis | the part i was suggesting doing with the calculator was figuring out the equations, but if it's lines, it isn't hrad |
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| 01:20.21 | *** part/#utah graphyx_home (n=Mike@c-67-182-206-236.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 01:24.00 | harleypig | anyone familiar with ... umm ... familiar and opie? I need to get my ipaq seeing the network on an xp host |
| 01:28.40 | harleypig | hmmm ... looks like I'll have to go with ppp/serial |
| 01:29.30 | maquis | anyone have a good source of drivers that you go to a lot? |
| 01:29.58 | Tene | google? |
| 01:30.01 | Tene | drivers for what? |
| 01:30.04 | maquis | looking there |
| 01:30.29 | Tene | for usb, look up the linux-usb device list |
| 01:30.40 | Tene | it's on their main page |
| 01:30.45 | maquis | the first time wanted wireless card |
| 01:30.47 | maquis | sorry |
| 01:30.57 | maquis | the first place wanted us to go through and register and everything |
| 01:30.58 | Tene | oh |
| 01:31.55 | maquis | http://www.softlookup.com/driveauthor.asp?id=4571 <-- we're looking for this one... |
| 01:31.56 | brac | [Broadcom Models and Drivers - Softlookup.com] |
| 01:32.04 | maquis | except we need one where the download link works |
| 01:32.09 | Tene | why don't you go to the manufacturer's page? |
| 01:32.13 | maquis | it doesn't have it |
| 01:32.18 | maquis | at least not anywhere we can find |
| 01:32.25 | Tene | WindowsUpdate! |
| 01:32.26 | Tene | >.> |
| 01:32.30 | maquis | erm... |
| 01:32.37 | maquis | we're looking for it so we can stick it in ndiswrapper |
| 01:32.43 | maquis | so, there aren't any windows computers around |
| 01:32.45 | Tene | I know, I was just being a jerk. |
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| 02:01.14 | harleypig | anyone willing to hold my hand getting networking up and going on an h3870 compaq ipaq? I can't seem to find the right instructions, or if I do, I'm not following them well enough. |
| 02:01.18 | harleypig | my desktop is winxp. |
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| 02:24.37 | hans | sjansen holds harleypig's hand |
| 02:24.53 | Tene | coward |
| 02:25.02 | sjansen | huh? |
| 02:25.03 | harleypig | heh |
| 02:28.17 | emcnabb | hum |
| 02:28.28 | Tene | hah |
| 02:28.33 | goozbach | bah |
| 02:28.48 | emcnabb | ugh |
| 02:29.36 | levi | Mmm, Yo Yo Ma. |
| 02:30.09 | harleypig | there is not a thing wrong with us as single syllable people |
| 02:30.22 | harleypig | crap |
| 02:30.22 | harleypig | yalmost had it |
| 02:30.27 | maquis | :) |
| 02:30.33 | goozbach | why is monosyllabic anything but? |
| 02:30.58 | harleypig | why is the word for fear of palindrome a palindrome |
| 02:32.56 | goozbach | what is the word for fear of a palindrome? |
| 02:33.01 | vontrapp | harleypig: there is not a thing wrong with us as short word grunts |
| 02:33.51 | harleypig | :] |
| 02:34.20 | vontrapp | more on the xterm debacle: "read(3, 0xbfa27880, 32) = -1 EAGAIN (Resource temporarily unavailable)" |
| 02:34.23 | maquis | :) |
| 02:34.26 | vontrapp | ^^ from strace |
| 02:34.46 | vontrapp | and there's other addresses in the read() with the same result |
| 02:36.28 | goozbach | http://www.friocorte.com/talam/photo?photo_id=5581 |
| 02:36.55 | vontrapp | just a few: 0xb2739114, 0xb273d014, 0xb2740f14 |
| 02:37.06 | sjansen | goozbach: crazy |
| 02:41.28 | harleypig | anyone know how I can install a *.sys file in winxp? |
| 02:41.51 | ScytheBlade1 | Install a .sys file? |
| 02:41.53 | ScytheBlade1 | What do you mean? |
| 02:41.57 | emcnabb | http://pics.livejournal.com/kernelslacker/pic/00001r0g/ |
| 02:42.47 | harleypig | I have a USBNet driver I'm trying to install so I can get an iPAQ installed with OPIE to connect to the web, via an xp box. |
| 02:42.54 | harleypig | the only thing in the zip file was a .sys file. |
| 02:42.56 | vontrapp | anybody have any idea what kind of resources those are and why they would be temporarily unavailable? |
| 02:43.17 | maquis | emcnabb: nice |
| 02:45.32 | emcnabb | ROFL |
| 02:46.22 | emcnabb | I just read on Dave Jone's blog: "Best. Bug report. Ever." |
| 02:46.42 | emcnabb | http://www.livejournal.com/users/kernelslacker/32222.html |
| 02:46.47 | emcnabb | how not to file a bug report |
| 02:47.52 | *** join/#utah ScytheBlade1 (n=kyle@about/pxe/ScytheBlade1) |
| 02:48.47 | ScytheBlade1 | ... why am I asking in ##linux |
| 02:48.52 | ScytheBlade1 | Does anyone know of a good CLI mailer? |
| 02:49.01 | ScytheBlade1 | One that can do maildirs, but POP3 prefreably |
| 02:49.06 | harleypig | ScytheBlade1: mutt |
| 02:49.13 | emcnabb | mutt + fetchmail |
| 02:53.06 | Tene | mutt |
| 02:55.08 | goozbach | http://www.friocorte.com/atsyntkbwata/one-entry?entry%5fid=5702 |
| 02:55.14 | goozbach | opps wrong window |
| 02:55.16 | goozbach | sorry |
| 03:04.30 | sjansen | Print you festering pile of elephant dung! |
| 03:05.24 | harleypig | :D On that note .... I 'm going home. |
| 03:07.51 | maquis | http://tuxgirl.com/scrabble.jpg <-- a game of scrabble with my mom over break |
| 03:08.04 | maquis | (our family likes scrabble a lot) |
| 03:09.53 | sjansen | a little rotating would have been nice |
| 03:10.01 | maquis | sjansen: sorry |
| 03:10.20 | sjansen | I think I injured my neck because of you. |
| 03:12.51 | maquis | sjansen: try again and refresh |
| 03:14.04 | maquis | sjansen: we were excited that it spread out so nicely |
| 03:14.32 | sjansen | heh, soma |
| 03:17.19 | maquis | sjansen: yeah... that was my mom |
| 03:17.51 | maquis | i even challenged it, because i didn't think there was an actual word, but it's something totally unrelated to brave new world |
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| 03:34.14 | emcnabb-treo | wow. Gandolfo's in Bountiful closed. sjansen, you were their main source of revenue |
| 03:35.07 | maquis | they might close down too |
| 03:35.31 | goozbach | NOOOO!!!! |
| 03:35.31 | levi | maquis: It's still related to the Brave New World usage in definition as a Vedic intoxicating drink. |
| 03:35.46 | hans | cheescake is? |
| 03:35.48 | goozbach | not as long as I have money in my pocket |
| 03:35.59 | maquis | goozbach: i'm only saying that they would if you stopped eating there |
| 03:36.03 | levi | maquis: But the definition you saw was likely the one that relates it to words like 'somatic' |
| 03:36.08 | maquis | levi: not the definition that the scrabble dictionary |
| 03:36.09 | goozbach | I'll never let that happen |
| 03:36.14 | maquis | levi: yeah... |
| 03:36.26 | maquis | goozbach: good :) |
| 03:36.29 | goozbach | I want to play monolpy |
| 03:36.36 | goozbach | er monolopy |
| 03:36.41 | maquis | goozbach: set up an atlantik server |
| 03:36.51 | levi | maquis: And, even more fun, psychosomatic! |
| 03:37.33 | goozbach | maquis: no, real, paper-money, sit on the floor with crampped legs in the company of fun-to-be-with people |
| 03:37.40 | goozbach | monopoly |
| 03:37.43 | maquis | goozbach: sorry... i can't help you there |
| 03:38.16 | maquis | cvsup |
| 03:38.19 | maquis | erm |
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| 03:40.06 | levi | Man, I love Spotlight in OS X. |
| 03:42.10 | ScytheBlade1 | Hmm - I like to keep all of my mail on the server, and yet every time I run fetchmail, it downloads ALL of it over again |
| 03:42.26 | ScytheBlade1 | Is there any way to have fetchmail mark the message as read and only get new ones? |
| 03:42.31 | ScytheBlade1 | I can't find that option, if so, in --help |
| 03:45.25 | goozbach | ScytheBlade1: is it a POP server? |
| 03:46.36 | ScytheBlade1 | POP3, yes |
| 03:47.08 | goozbach | that's why |
| 03:47.21 | goozbach | pop stores the changes to email on the client |
| 03:47.36 | goozbach | you need to use IMAP for the functionality you're looking for |
| 03:47.42 | ScytheBlade1 | iirc, POP3 has the NEW flag server-side |
| 03:48.18 | ScytheBlade1 | I actually have a printed copy of the RFC next to me, sec |
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| 03:48.32 | goozbach | I'd say download it all if it's pop3 and delete it from the server |
| 03:48.43 | goozbach | then use imap to access it on a second server |
| 03:48.48 | goozbach | which is what I do |
| 03:48.54 | maquis | ScytheBlade1: if you use gmail, it archives it once it gets brought down... |
| 03:49.01 | maquis | and then it doesn't bring it down again |
| 03:49.28 | hans | pop does have a way to indicate the last read message |
| 03:49.48 | hans | imap is much more sophisticated, each message has read/unread status |
| 03:49.55 | hans | always use imap if you can |
| 03:50.02 | hans | bend over backwards to use imap |
| 03:50.47 | ScytheBlade1 | Grr, nope, no support for that flag |
| 03:50.57 | ScytheBlade1 | and I have gmail, but that's not the account in question |
| 03:51.22 | ScytheBlade1 | and yes, I know of the wonders of IMAP, I just have yet to get a functional IMAP mail server configured correctly. |
| 03:53.46 | Tene | go imap! |
| 03:54.33 | maquis | http://www.941zbq.com/cc-common/mainheadlines3.html?feed=104774&article=379512 |
| 03:54.35 | ScytheBlade1 | Point me to a good linux SMTP/POP3/IMAP combo, and trust me, I will |
| 03:54.35 | brac | [941zbq.com] |
| 03:54.40 | maquis | great oist |
| 03:57.08 | tensai | ScytheBlade1: I use Exim and Courier, which has always treated me well. I've also heard good things about Dovecot for IMAP and Postfix for SMTP. |
| 03:57.35 | ScytheBlade1 | That's the thing |
| 03:57.46 | ScytheBlade1 | I've tried all of those combos, but never once actually got it working correctly |
| 03:59.02 | ScytheBlade1 | I finally just gave up and used xmail |
| 04:01.49 | goozbach | firefox 1.5 moved the live bookmark icon on me |
| 04:01.53 | goozbach | I couldn't find it |
| 04:02.13 | ScytheBlade1 | It's up in the address bar |
| 04:02.31 | goozbach | yeah |
| 04:02.39 | goozbach | just found that out |
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| 05:20.16 | vontrapp | when is /etc/bash.bashrc sourced? |
| 05:20.47 | Tene | very shortly |
| 05:20.52 | Tene | . /etc/bash.bashrc |
| 05:20.54 | Tene | just then |
| 05:21.01 | Tene | I think you missed it. |
| 05:21.46 | vontrapp | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:22.00 | vontrapp | so i guess i'll just move that completion stuff to /etc/profile |
| 05:22.08 | Tene | yay! |
| 05:22.46 | vontrapp | wai,t isn't it the other way around though?bashrc sourced all the time and profile sourced per session or something? |
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| 07:32.47 | findlay | stupid debian |
| 07:32.51 | findlay | ~lart debootstrap |
| 07:34.28 | findlay | cool |
| 07:34.37 | findlay | the command for today is getconf |
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| 08:39.36 | QBFreak | err as a good sign |
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| 14:24.36 | graphyx | morning. |
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| 15:00.51 | hatchmt | Here's a tough one: Has anyone ever successfully made their initrd forceload a module during boot with mismatched versionmagic? |
| 15:06.51 | hatchmt | ...oh, this is SLES 9, by the way... |
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| 16:00.20 | Hhhhh | at last! My mom is getting a PC ;) |
| 16:00.35 | Hhhhh | at last my parents' house won't be MAC only anymore |
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| 16:01.11 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
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| 16:12.37 | harleypig | http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=oddlyEnoughNews&storyid=2006-01-17T135559Z_01_DEL207089_RTRUKOC_0_US-INDIA-GHOST.xml |
| 16:15.05 | jsmith | harleypig: Good one... |
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| 16:18.55 | sjansen | Man: I'm not dead yet! |
| 16:19.02 | sjansen | Village: Prove it. |
| 16:19.11 | sjansen | Man: I feel fine. I think I'll go for a walk now. |
| 16:19.36 | sjansen | Village: Oh shut up. *Villagers hit Man on the head.* |
| 16:21.42 | emcnabb | http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/01/17/uk.parrot/index.html |
| 16:21.43 | brac | [CNN.com - Mouthy parrot 'reveals sex secret' - Jan 17, 2006] |
| 16:21.48 | emcnabb | this is awesome |
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| 16:29.35 | amcnabb | If you have an affair, make sure to poison the parrot first. |
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| 16:45.17 | maquis | ~onjoin _default -fozzmoo |
| 16:45.17 | ibot | maquis: ok |
| 16:45.23 | maquis | ~onjoin -fozzmoo |
| 16:45.24 | ibot | maquis: ok |
| 16:45.35 | maquis | ~onjoin fozzmoo |
| 16:45.39 | maquis | good |
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| 16:45.46 | *** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@166.70.238.250) |
| 16:45.57 | fozzmoo | mooooooooooooooooooo! |
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| 16:47.57 | harleypig | "I still can't believe he's gone. I know I'll get over Suzy, but I don't think I'll ever get over Ziggy." |
| 16:48.11 | harleypig | that's hilarious |
| 16:48.18 | maquis | yeah |
| 16:48.24 | maquis | it is one of the greatest quotes |
| 16:49.01 | sjansen | Heh, looks like I'm averaging one blog entry every month or so. |
| 16:49.10 | Jayce^ | slacker |
| 16:49.27 | sjansen | Jayce^: Some of us have real jobs. :-P |
| 16:50.13 | levi | A past girlfriend of mine had an African Grey parrot when she was younger. Apparently they had to get rid of it because it would argue with her mom all the time. |
| 16:50.27 | maquis | hehe |
| 16:51.53 | fozzmoo | sjansen: I've been a real slacker lately myself. |
| 16:52.23 | fozzmoo | Part of the reason, tho, is that I'm rewriting all my blogging software. :) |
| 16:52.46 | phinux | http://www.bersk.com/ |
| 16:52.52 | brac | [bersk.com] |
| 16:52.58 | phinux | opps. Sorry guys, that was supposed to be in my browser. |
| 16:53.29 | fozzmoo | http://www.hotelderlyrussianwomen.net/ |
| 16:53.31 | fozzmoo | Woops. me too. |
| 16:53.42 | maquis | -lart fozzmoo |
| 16:53.47 | fozzmoo | Wahoo! |
| 16:53.50 | maquis | erm that wasn't a lart |
| 16:53.52 | maquis | -lart fozzmoo |
| 16:54.52 | sjansen | fozzmoo: Oh, good. I was starting to worry that the heady days of everyone wasting^?investing their time in building their own blogging software were starting to fade. |
| 16:55.55 | sjansen | fozzmoo: That URL you pasted doesn't seem to work for me. Perhaps it has a typo. |
| 16:55.57 | Jayce^ | sjansen, of course not, it's like templating kits, everybody has to build one.. |
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| 16:59.26 | sjansen | "Not everyone who starts learning Perl for whipituptitude needs manipulexity right away[.]" |
| 17:00.01 | Hhhhh | people who use Perl should be left alone in a deserted island |
| 17:00.32 | Hhhhh | with just a machete, a handgun and one pound of salt |
| 17:02.34 | sjansen | Guess what I'm going to use mine for. |
| 17:03.24 | Uncle_Jesse | which ISP/TV/Phone has the best service in Taylorsville? |
| 17:03.34 | Jayce^ | sjansen, keep his attention, I'll get him from behind |
| 17:03.34 | Uncle_Jesse | Moving into my new house next week |
| 17:03.56 | Uncle_Jesse | Finally getting out of the in-laws |
| 17:04.06 | Jayce^ | taylorsville? |
| 17:04.16 | tensai | sjansen: making bacon? |
| 17:04.28 | Uncle_Jesse | yeah |
| 17:05.23 | Uncle_Jesse | unfortunately Utopia isn't available in Taylorsville |
| 17:05.55 | *** join/#utah hans (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 17:06.02 | tensai | ~lart hans |
| 17:09.13 | harleypig | Is anyone familiar enough with PPP/serial to a winxp host that can help me? Or, even better, a USB network setup via a winxp box? |
| 17:09.14 | sjansen | tensai: I can neither confirm nor deny. I could tell you, but then I'd have to shoot you and I'm trying to conserve my bullets. |
| 17:12.21 | synic | who wants some perl contract work? |
| 17:12.34 | levi | Nothing wrong with writing your own blogging software. Now, writing your own blogging software and then releasing it to the world... that's a crime against humanity these days. ;) |
| 17:12.54 | tensai | # which vim |
| 17:12.54 | tensai | # |
| 17:13.01 | tensai | what is this world coming to? |
| 17:13.19 | Hhhhh | levi, what do you mean? why would someone say it's wrong to write blogging software? |
| 17:13.29 | levi | Hhhhh: sjansen just did. |
| 17:14.05 | tensai | it's wrong to write blogging software. there I've said it too. |
| 17:14.15 | Hhhhh | why? |
| 17:14.19 | sjansen | No Vim?!!!! |
| 17:14.29 | Hhhhh | vim = n00bware |
| 17:14.32 | Hhhhh | haha! |
| 17:14.33 | Hhhhh | j/k |
| 17:14.50 | levi | Hhhhh: It is. Real unix hackers use ed. |
| 17:15.01 | Hhhhh | heh |
| 17:15.11 | Uncle_Jesse | synic: I may be up for it, depending on how big a project |
| 17:15.14 | levi | Visual mode is a crutch for the mentally weak. |
| 17:15.19 | Hhhhh | haha |
| 17:15.31 | sjansen | In other words, real hackers can drop into ed from vim when ever they need/want to. |
| 17:15.36 | *** part/#utah phinux (n=phinux@iocane.cs.byu.edu) |
| 17:15.42 | Hhhhh | sure, gbd makes development so much faster than ddd |
| 17:15.44 | Hhhhh | </bull> |
| 17:15.50 | Hhhhh | nuff' said |
| 17:16.24 | levi | Hhhhh: Faster development is for Windows Weenies. Unix hackers savor the development experience. |
| 17:16.40 | synic | Uncle_Jesse: fozzmoo bit first, thanks though |
| 17:17.01 | sjansen | I should have read that Perl 6 article, now I'm starting to get impatient again. |
| 17:17.19 | levi | Far better to spend an hour composing an arcane command line that does exactly what you want than to spend five minutes dragging things around. |
| 17:17.55 | sjansen | levi: I think you've inverted the order there. Far better to throw together a command line in five minutes than spend hours dragging things around. |
| 17:18.22 | levi | sjansen: Well, /sometimes/ it works that way. |
| 17:19.24 | tensai | use Getopt::Long; what's so complicated about that? |
| 17:19.49 | sjansen | Many is the occasion that knowledge of the command line has saved me from days of work if I'd had to write code from scratch or do everything in a gui. |
| 17:19.59 | Hhhhh | levi, rofl |
| 17:20.12 | Hhhhh | yea, it has to be painful, that means I'm the hax0rz |
| 17:20.45 | tensai | ~lart up2date |
| 17:21.05 | Uncle_Jesse | synic: no prob. I've already got a decent sized one I'm working on, so I may not have had time any way |
| 17:21.27 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 17:21.27 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 17:22.15 | levi | I am a man of dangerous ideas! Fear me! |
| 17:22.15 | Uncle_Jesse | btw we're still (and will be for a long time) hiring if anyone's interested :-) |
| 17:25.26 | maquis | User calls help desk to report a gold message that says "thank you" in the lower left corner of her screen. "Believing it to be a virus, I advised her to not touch anything and transferred her to our software support team," says pilot fish who got the call. "The tech took over the call and shadowed the user's desktop but didn't see the message. After asking the user about it, she understood. Once the yellow Post-it note that someone had taped on her monit |
| 17:25.58 | levi | Oh my. |
| 17:28.43 | fozzmoo | These new flat panel displays make everything seem so real. |
| 17:28.46 | fozzmoo | ;-) |
| 17:29.13 | maquis | -lart fozzmoo |
| 17:29.28 | emcnabb | fozzmoo, what model do you have? |
| 17:29.42 | fozzmoo | On which computers? :) |
| 17:29.44 | emcnabb | I've been thinking about getting one myself |
| 17:29.53 | fozzmoo | Right now I'm looking at a REALsync 19-inch. |
| 17:29.55 | levi | I just got a flat panel display. |
| 17:30.01 | emcnabb | I'm just looking for suggested models |
| 17:30.04 | fozzmoo | Upstairs I've got a REALsync 17-inch. |
| 17:30.25 | levi | I have a Rosewill 19" that I got from newegg. |
| 17:30.26 | fozzmoo | My advice is just read the NewEgg reviews and make sure you get one with DVI and the 15-pin VGA. |
| 17:30.57 | emcnabb | they have come down in price a lot recently |
| 17:31.06 | emcnabb | fozzmoo, good point |
| 17:31.29 | fozzmoo | I'm not running mine via DVI yet... but I don't want to have to get a new monitor when I do go that way. |
| 17:31.57 | maquis | ~dvi |
| 17:31.59 | ibot | extra, extra, read all about it, dvi is Digital Visual Interface. |
| 17:32.00 | emcnabb | my Mac Mini has DVI |
| 17:32.13 | fozzmoo | One of my programmers is a multi-screen nut. |
| 17:32.21 | fozzmoo | Can't work without at least 2 displays in front of him. |
| 17:32.46 | fozzmoo | While I admit that's kinda cool, I can live with desktop switching in Linux. |
| 17:33.13 | emcnabb | I use my laptop for 95% of my work anyway |
| 17:33.16 | levi | I'm running mine in DVI mode because I've got a rat's nest of cables and the VGA cable picked up some interference and was ghosting on the screen. |
| 17:33.28 | emcnabb | interesting |
| 17:33.56 | emcnabb | having a 15" 1600x1200 display on my laptop is nice :-) |
| 17:34.29 | Newsome | yeah, having a 17" 1920x1200 display is even better |
| 17:34.41 | sjansen | emcnabb: I'm too busy working. |
| 17:34.48 | emcnabb | sjansen, whatever |
| 17:34.52 | emcnabb | liar |
| 17:34.55 | levi | I wouldn't mind a really hi-res model like that, but I'd probably leave my text about the same size it is now. |
| 17:35.27 | fozzmoo | I wish HP was sellign that 1920x1200 display on my laptop when I bought it. |
| 17:35.48 | fozzmoo | When sjansen saw it, he was like, "Why did you settle for 1680x1050?!" |
| 17:36.32 | fozzmoo | I want to know, if it's so easy to put 1920x1200 on a laptop, why can't I get a 17-inch desktop display with that resolution? |
| 17:36.35 | sjansen | fozzmoo: Actually, I think it was more like "Ha ha, you fool! Now I am master of the universe and your are my pixel-deprived slave!" |
| 17:36.55 | fozzmoo | yeah- I was just translating for everyone else. ;-) |
| 17:37.35 | fozzmoo | "See... what he means is..." |
| 17:37.43 | emcnabb | -lart sjansen |
| 17:37.54 | fozzmoo | Ooooh. Good one. |
| 17:38.43 | emcnabb | good job brac |
| 17:41.18 | sjansen | "The Intel G5 boots almost twice as fast. I'm anxious to get my hands on a MacBook." |
| 17:41.23 | sjansen | *blink* *blink* |
| 17:41.32 | Jayce^ | EFI instead of BIOS |
| 17:42.07 | sjansen | When I first read that, my brain kept throwing an exception but I could figure out why. |
| 17:42.21 | sjansen | When did Intel start shipping G5's? |
| 17:42.27 | sjansen | s/could/couldn't/ |
| 17:42.30 | levi | sjansen: Twice as fast as what? |
| 17:43.10 | sjansen | I think he was trying to say the Intel MacBook was twice as fast as they G5 PowerBook. |
| 17:43.21 | *** join/#utah jakea (n=jakea@128.187.130.246) |
| 17:43.33 | levi | There never was a G5 PowerBook. |
| 17:43.50 | levi | iMac, yes. PowerBook, no. |
| 17:44.34 | levi | The G4 Powerbook doesn't use BIOS, either. It uses OpenFirmware. |
| 17:48.00 | Uncle_Jesse | question for the postgres gurus out there: |
| 17:48.42 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 17:48.51 | Uncle_Jesse | which is faster, doing a match based on a regular expression (where foo ~ '^.S') or doing a join to another table to get the info you're looking for? |
| 17:49.00 | Uncle_Jesse | (again, this is in Postgres) |
| 17:50.41 | Jayce^ | a join should be lots faster, doubly if indexed |
| 17:51.36 | Uncle_Jesse | Jayce^: good to know. thx! |
| 17:52.10 | fozzmoo | Nah. I recommend using regex WHERE conditions in every SQL statement. ;-) |
| 17:52.36 | fozzmoo | I also recommend using MS SQL on a Pentium II w/ 128 MB of RAM. |
| 17:52.51 | Jayce^ | fozzmoo, and using stored procedures that use network libraries to call out to php to do the logic |
| 17:53.14 | fozzmoo | *kicking punching noises* |
| 17:53.22 | fozzmoo | Sorry guys. Dunno what got into my cats. |
| 17:53.27 | fozzmoo | You leave for just a minute... |
| 17:54.11 | Uncle_Jesse | fozzmoo: I like your advice the best |
| 17:54.26 | Uncle_Jesse | I think I'll try explain analyze just to be sure |
| 17:54.49 | *** join/#utah timmywu (n=timm@translate.sento.com) |
| 18:02.59 | *** join/#utah mheath (n=mheath@c-24-2-81-30.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 18:11.28 | mheath | Wow |
| 18:11.48 | findlay | indeed |
| 18:11.48 | mheath | I just realized...Thanks to the adblock plugin for firefox, I don't see any ads. Any. |
| 18:11.52 | findlay | ~chlorodinitronaphthalene |
| 18:12.01 | mheath | Its to the point where I don't even really thinkg about it |
| 18:12.10 | mheath | The internet is and always was ad free :) |
| 18:14.00 | fozzmoo | mheath: Are you having trouble impressing women?! Call 1-800-VIAGRA-NOW. |
| 18:14.07 | fozzmoo | muahh ha ha ha ha |
| 18:14.13 | Hhhhh | hmm, S |
| 18:14.19 | Hhhhh | MS SQL is very fast |
| 18:14.33 | mheath | I was thinking, earlier, that we're a dieing breed. The last few decades of people who think about computers the way we do. |
| 18:14.56 | fozzmoo | No, there will always be a rare percentage of people who appreciate things we do. |
| 18:14.58 | mheath | I can just see people, 20 years from now, using simplified tablet PCs, holographic displays, playing games and looking up information |
| 18:15.26 | fozzmoo | As long as there are people who are interested in the most efficient way to do things... |
| 18:15.36 | mheath | fozzmoo: Yeah, but rather than being a percentage of people, these type of people will be the small few who work as developers for technology companies |
| 18:15.39 | fozzmoo | there will be a demand for a a CLI. |
| 18:16.04 | mheath | fozzmoo: Well, think of it this way |
| 18:16.12 | mheath | a computers GUI is roughly based on GUIs from 25 years ago |
| 18:16.17 | fozzmoo | But I agree with you. Microsoft has created a society of people who know nothing. |
| 18:16.22 | mheath | They haven't changed much |
| 18:16.40 | mheath | And all operating systems are still based on an evolution of a foundation thats been around for 25+ years |
| 18:17.08 | mheath | Linux is still based on Unix, Windows is still based on old Windows (which evolved from DOS), Mac OS X is an evolution from old Mac OS |
| 18:17.27 | fozzmoo | Linux is based on Unix, but it's a LOT different than the Unix of yore. |
| 18:17.49 | mheath | We're all still experiencing similar things to what we've been experiencing for the past 25 years |
| 18:18.39 | fozzmoo | I see what you're saying, but I'd like to argue that many babysteps equals revolutionary change. |
| 18:18.44 | mheath | Thats all going to change. In the next few decades, computers will become more of a mix of a tool and a gaming console..Users will use it, and have fun with it, but you'll have far less computer enthusiasts, far less hackers |
| 18:18.48 | fozzmoo | 25 years ago, nobody was browsing the web. |
| 18:19.29 | Hhhhh | Linux is radically different from unix, it was meant to mimic though to a certain degree |
| 18:19.40 | Hhhhh | unix = one huge, monolithic kernel |
| 18:19.47 | Hhhhh | linux = modular, flexible kernel |
| 18:19.50 | fozzmoo | Linux = one huge monilithic kernel. :) |
| 18:20.02 | Hhhhh | ? |
| 18:20.14 | fozzmoo | That's one of the complaints about Linux. |
| 18:20.20 | fozzmoo | It's not a microkernel. |
| 18:20.21 | mheath | Hhhhh: Linux's code is organized in a somewhat modular fashion, but its overall effect is still rather monolithic |
| 18:20.35 | mheath | fozzmoo: Keep in mind, microkernels are monolithic too |
| 18:20.36 | Hhhhh | then guess what, if that was the case, my nice nvidia SLI setup would not work as nice |
| 18:20.53 | Hhhhh | s/nice/nicely |
| 18:21.01 | mheath | they get a reputation for being modular because many use things like the Hurd, which are low-level system daemons that sit ontop of the microkenrel |
| 18:21.14 | mheath | *microkernel |
| 18:21.15 | Hhhhh | ok, if you guys call microkernels monolithic, I guess we have adefinition twisting problem here |
| 18:21.25 | hans | ~twist |
| 18:21.26 | ibot | Embedded Python text processor. URL: http://pyrite.linuxbox.com/twist/twist.html |
| 18:21.38 | mheath | Hhhhh: Microkernels are just small kernels |
| 18:21.53 | Hhhhh | but the Linux kernel is modular |
| 18:21.53 | mheath | Minimal drivers, minimal functionality. Small. Simple. |
| 18:22.05 | Hhhhh | it's not one huge process running in the background |
| 18:22.15 | Hhhhh | where all other processes spawn off |
| 18:22.17 | mheath | Most common microkernels out there (l4, Mach, etc) are monolithic |
| 18:22.20 | Hhhhh | actually, wait |
| 18:22.25 | mheath | Very, very small and simple, but monolithic. Solid. One thing. |
| 18:22.53 | hans | I don't get the "web 2.0" bashers |
| 18:23.06 | hans | they say this stuff has been around, and it has. but it's never spread until now |
| 18:23.07 | mheath | Hhhhh: Well, the thing is, Linux is rather 'tangled together' |
| 18:23.25 | hans | could it be that hype actually gets things done? |
| 18:23.32 | fozzmoo | I hate the name "Web 2.0" |
| 18:23.41 | mheath | a lot of stuff depends on a lot of other stuff. Its all linked together in weird ways, and it all depends on C calls to accomplish anything |
| 18:24.16 | hans | there's a lot of things to hate about hype, but you can't deny that the web sites are changing, and if the tech has always been there then something (perhaps the hype) made people wake up and use it |
| 18:24.19 | mheath | Kernels that are defined as modular, on the other hand, tend to use neat, entirely seperate segments that communicate via IPC or RPC |
| 18:25.04 | mheath | Let me give you a better example, Hhhhh |
| 18:25.25 | fozzmoo | How do you say "Hhhhh" without sounding like you need Heimlich? |
| 18:25.25 | mheath | (I know you all hate Hurd, but its the only working example of a true modular kernel + microkernel, so I'm using it) |
| 18:25.48 | fozzmoo | Minix. |
| 18:26.06 | findlay | my kernel is small |
| 18:26.17 | findlay | barely even a megabyte when compressed |
| 18:26.23 | fozzmoo | heh. |
| 18:26.25 | Jayce^ | for various definitions of *working* |
| 18:26.31 | mheath | The Hurd is almost to the point where I could run *just* the filesystem code on one computer, *just* my soundcard driver on another computer, and *just* my printer driver on another |
| 18:26.49 | mheath | They'd all have to run the Mach microkernel too |
| 18:26.58 | fozzmoo | Come on, what about the days when a kernel was like 100k? |
| 18:27.13 | mheath | But its so modular, so seperated, and everything communicates via abstracted RPC, that you can really seperate things to that degree |
| 18:27.16 | findlay | fozzmoo: would that be spircam? |
| 18:27.20 | Hhhhh | fozzmoo, it's pronounced by letting out a burst of air from your lungs slowly and with your jaws opened in a square manner |
| 18:27.45 | mheath | Jayce^: *shrug*. I run my apache server on it. Works enough for me. |
| 18:27.46 | Hhhhh | pretty much like if you were trying to make someone smell your breath |
| 18:27.46 | fozzmoo | Hmm. I'm a little congested right now. |
| 18:27.57 | fozzmoo | Do you mind if I address you as Hhh*cough*? |
| 18:28.05 | Hhhhh | no, please don't |
| 18:28.17 | fozzmoo | I may have to. |
| 18:28.28 | Hhhhh | I don't mind if you use eich-eich-eich-eich-eich |
| 18:28.38 | Hhhhh | but it's a little long ;) |
| 18:28.47 | hans | I just call him h5 |
| 18:28.55 | Hhhhh | that's what voice emulation in ut2004 calls me |
| 18:28.59 | mheath | Jayce^: I just run it for the translators. I couldn't get by without translators now. |
| 18:29.18 | Hhhhh | hhhhh is easier, no need to move your fingers from their current position from the H |
| 18:29.29 | hans | but controlling the repeat is hard |
| 18:29.33 | hans | hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh |
| 18:29.36 | hans | oops, held on a bit too long |
| 18:30.27 | Hhhhh | just five taps, come on |
| 18:30.34 | Hhhhh | any linux hax0r should be able to do it |
| 18:31.04 | fozzmoo | 'h' x 5; |
| 18:31.05 | mheath | Its interesting that a lot of people think Tannenbaums Minix isn't modular |
| 18:31.13 | maquis | or h<tab> |
| 18:31.14 | mheath | When he was the one arguing that Linux was inferior because of its monolithic design |
| 18:31.21 | fozzmoo | right. |
| 18:31.38 | maquis | -lart mheath |
| 18:32.07 | hans | mheath: how is it interesting? |
| 18:32.09 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@obelix.cs.byu.edu) |
| 18:32.27 | hans | it sounds like a perfectly valid argument to me |
| 18:32.55 | mheath | hans: Their famed mailing list argument is used as a type of evidence by those for and against modular design in most arguments |
| 18:33.10 | hans | T bashes linux for being monolithic and it turns out his minix microkernel isn't exactly true to microkernelism. sounds like a bit of hypocrisy |
| 18:33.13 | mheath | Yet, both kernels were (especially at the time) monolithic :) |
| 18:33.36 | mheath | Interesting and hypocritical. |
| 18:33.45 | mheath | hans: microkernalism != modular |
| 18:33.59 | mheath | microkernels are almost always monolithic |
| 18:34.00 | hans | hhhhh: five taps of the same finger are slower for a touch typist than five separate keys, esp. if they're spread out among the two hands |
| 18:34.14 | mheath | Its what rides ontop of the microkernel that makes the system modular |
| 18:34.18 | hans | sorry, I haven't been paying attention to your alternate reality definition of modular |
| 18:35.08 | maquis | hans: nice :) |
| 18:35.13 | mheath | hans: Its not alternate reality. What a microkernel does...You can organize the source in a modular fasion, Like linux does, but your end result has to be monolithic. |
| 18:35.45 | mheath | The whole point of a microkernel is to keep that monolithicness to a minimum, so you have as much room to do neat abstracted modular things as possible |
| 18:37.07 | hans | monolithic has nothing to do with coding style of the kernel, but with everything being thrown into the kernel |
| 18:37.16 | hans | linux is still monolithic even though it has a modular design |
| 18:37.30 | mheath | Your monolithic microkernel just provides the necessities for modules to exist. IE, memory paging and RPC. |
| 18:37.51 | hans | minix, while not 100% true to the microkernelists, is not monolithic |
| 18:37.58 | mheath | Actually, I should say IPC. In most micorkernels, they just have a crude IPC implementation; RPC is implemented at a higher level |
| 18:38.31 | hans | what you call crude some might call simple and elegant |
| 18:39.00 | sjansen | Heh, looks like I've found a very simple way to drive gnome-font-viewer crazy. |
| 18:39.19 | sjansen | ~hug top |
| 18:39.20 | ibot | ACTION hugs top |
| 18:40.02 | mheath | hans: I really don't want to get into an argument with you. This just started out as "Telling Hhhhh why Linux isn't modular, even though it has modules". |
| 18:41.30 | graphyx | mheath: Wouldn't the simple answer be since you can compile pretty much any module into the kernel its self? |
| 18:41.42 | graphyx | s/its self/itself/ |
| 18:41.51 | hans | ok. I respectfully disagree. Linux isn't a microkernel, but a modular monolithic kernel. |
| 18:42.02 | fozzmoo | And that's okay. |
| 18:42.07 | fozzmoo | ;-) |
| 18:42.11 | jsmith | It's all about what's done in kernel space vs. user space :-) |
| 18:42.11 | hans | monolithism is all about what runs in the process space |
| 18:42.13 | mheath | hans: I didn't say Linux was a microkernel O.o |
| 18:42.19 | hans | loaded modules are in the same process space |
| 18:42.21 | fozzmoo | jsmith: Exactly |
| 18:42.22 | hans | mheath: no, you didn't |
| 18:42.28 | hans | but you said it wasn't modular. |
| 18:42.31 | hans | and it is. |
| 18:43.02 | fozzmoo | This all started with a discussion of how Linux is like/unlike Unix of 25 years ago. |
| 18:43.04 | mheath | graphyx: No. There is no simple answer. Its the way things are linked, and their interdependence......And the way they call each other/communicate. |
| 18:43.10 | mheath | You missed my earlier example |
| 18:43.14 | graphyx | ok |
| 18:44.04 | mheath | With a modular system like Mach+Hurd, I can take and run *just* the filesystem driver on one computer, *just* the printer driver on another, and *just* my soundcard driver on another |
| 18:44.14 | mheath | Things are entirely seperated |
| 18:44.24 | mheath | They communicate via abstracted RPC |
| 18:44.29 | fozzmoo | You can't separate ppp_generic.ko from the kernel. |
| 18:44.32 | fozzmoo | (in Linux) |
| 18:45.07 | fozzmoo | In Linux, the kernel runs as one big process. |
| 18:45.07 | levi | Microkernels aren't even a very new idea at this point, so what's the big deal? We'll still be using old stuff even if we upgrade a generation to a microkernel+separate servers architecture. |
| 18:45.16 | fozzmoo | Sure it has modules- they load in and out of the kernel process. |
| 18:45.21 | mheath | The only thing that has to be shared between all these computers is a tiny version of Mach, which sets up memory paging and IPC |
| 18:45.31 | fozzmoo | But when you do a 'ps' you don't see all the modules running. You have to do an 'lsmod' to do that. |
| 18:45.56 | fozzmoo | Therefore, Linux is monolithic. |
| 18:45.59 | mheath | on Linux, things are heavily interdependent, and communicate with things their dependent on in a static, hardcoded, local way. |
| 18:46.07 | levi | To some degree, I want my PC to run on a base of mature technology. But I'd like more advanced and more recent stuff to get a little more traction than it has now. |
| 18:46.12 | mheath | IE, my network cards driver depends on the networking core module |
| 18:46.30 | mheath | I can't seperate those in Linux. Its not possible |
| 18:47.12 | mheath | I could, theoretically, run one on one computer and the other on another and have things work with a modular system (though thats a bad example........with a distributed modular system, every machine needs to have some basic networking for the RPC) |
| 18:47.20 | levi | Linux has modules, therefore it is modular! Let's play the semantics game! What does 'modular' mean to YOU? |
| 18:48.29 | tensai | modular to me means that it can run quake3 mods. since Linux cannot load a quake3 mod, it therefore is not modular. |
| 18:48.58 | fozzmoo | "[Linux community members] are making tanks. These are not old-fashioned, cast-iron Soviet tanks; these are more like the M1 tanks of the U.S. Army, made of space-age materials and jammed with sophisticated technology from one end to the other. But they are better than Army tanks. They've been modified in such a way that they never, ever break down, are light and maneuverable enough to use on ordinary streets, and use no more fuel than a subcompact car." |
| 18:49.08 | mheath | tensai: Ah, but what about Quake/WINE/GNU/LINUX |
| 18:49.14 | mheath | ? |
| 18:49.20 | mheath | ;-P |
| 18:49.35 | fozzmoo | (In the Beginning Was The Command Line -- Neal Stephenson) |
| 18:49.37 | levi | tensai: But, I can listen to Amiga MOD files in Linux! So it's MODular! |
| 18:50.28 | fozzmoo | Hacker with bullhorn: "Save your money! Accept one of our free tanks! It is invulnerable, and can drive across rocks and swamps at ninety miles an hour while getting a hundred miles to the gallon!" |
| 18:50.37 | fozzmoo | Prospective station wagon buyer: "I know what you say is true...but...er...I don't know how to maintain a tank!" |
| 18:50.44 | fozzmoo | Bullhorn: "You don't know how to maintain a station wagon either!" |
| 18:51.23 | goozbach | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/01/10/aol_sue_chatroom/ |
| 18:51.25 | brac | [Man sues over chatroom humiliation | The Register] |
| 18:52.15 | sjansen | ~sue goozbach |
| 18:52.24 | *** join/#utah aolchatroom (n=tensai@joanna.zmonkey.org) |
| 18:52.37 | aolchatroom | goozbach: you stink! |
| 18:52.48 | mheath | Jayce^: you around? |
| 18:53.40 | Jayce^ | I'm not very round... |
| 18:53.49 | goozbach | no I don't |
| 18:54.01 | mheath | Jayce^: Have you played as a druid in WoW? |
| 18:54.05 | Jayce^ | yup |
| 18:54.16 | mheath | How/when do you get shape changes? |
| 18:54.40 | Jayce^ | there come at various levels.. higher up |
| 18:54.46 | Jayce^ | it's in the docs |
| 18:58.09 | levi | I played WoW once. I don't think I'll buy it. |
| 18:58.28 | levi | I may try out some online Neverwinter Nights games at some point, though. |
| 19:02.32 | tensai | I wonder if I can find nwn in a bargain bin somewhere |
| 19:02.45 | graphyx | nwn was pretty cool. |
| 19:03.14 | hatchmt | I loved nwn (and coming from someone who doesn't 'game', that could either mean a lot, or nothing at all...) |
| 19:04.06 | *** join/#utah Kuyaedz (n=christer@c-24-2-76-178.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 19:04.08 | tensai | oh, wait. my video card gave up on 3d. guess that scratches that idea. |
| 19:05.28 | *** part/#utah Kuyaedz (n=christer@c-24-2-76-178.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 19:06.12 | hatchmt | ...gave up on 3d? |
| 19:10.19 | tensai | the card is giving up the ghost. first thing to go was 3d. any opengl app will lock up the computer. |
| 19:11.30 | goozbach | http://www.gizmag.com/go/3791/ |
| 19:11.31 | brac | [gizmag Article: Iannello-designed Voodoo Knife set] |
| 19:15.16 | findlay | "I don't know." "Third base!" |
| 19:18.49 | *** join/#utah Lone_Wanderer (n=chatzill@67.50.22.141) |
| 19:20.16 | maquis | goozbach: ???? |
| 19:20.42 | *** part/#utah Lone_Wanderer (n=chatzill@67.50.22.141) |
| 19:24.29 | findlay | maquis: ????? |
| 19:30.48 | maquis | findlay: !!!! |
| 19:33.37 | findlay | maquis: !!!!! |
| 19:35.29 | goozbach | ME??? |
| 19:36.27 | fozzmoo | YOU!!! |
| 19:37.03 | graphyx | "Who stole the cookie from the cookie jar... X stole the cookie from the cookie jar. who me, yes you..." |
| 19:37.41 | sjansen | ~hug inkscape |
| 19:37.42 | ibot | ACTION hugs inkscape |
| 19:42.03 | goozbach | http://www.gravestmor.com/wp/archives/2006/01/10/notes-on-the-denial-of-perspective-02-felice-varini/ |
| 19:47.23 | *** join/#utah wps_ (n=wps@38.119.178.10) |
| 19:50.27 | findlay | PROTOCOL://host.domain.TLD:port/path/to/findlay\'s/way/cool/page.html |
| 19:53.03 | findlay | [This is the <title>] |
| 19:54.36 | goozbach | don't like it, /ignore me |
| 19:54.53 | goozbach | I thought people might like these urls |
| 19:58.15 | findlay | goozbach: sorry, I didn't mean to be offensive |
| 19:58.33 | findlay | ibot: goozbach is cool |
| 19:58.35 | ibot | cannot alter locked factoids, findlay |
| 19:58.45 | goozbach | ~goozbach |
| 19:58.46 | ibot | you are probably a future que-ball. easier to catch than a retarted sasquatch |
| 19:59.16 | findlay | ~findlay |
| 19:59.18 | ibot | somebody said findlay was wanting a SuSE-10.0 rock |
| 19:59.18 | tensai | a retarded sasquatch, eh? |
| 19:59.43 | goozbach | tensai: retarted |
| 19:59.58 | goozbach | but I don't ever remember being tarted in the first place |
| 20:00.04 | tensai | ok. that makes total sense then |
| 20:00.09 | tensai | ~factinfo goozbach |
| 20:00.09 | ibot | goozbach -- last modified at Mon May 9 22:30:39 2005 by goozbach!~goozbach@207.108.175.219; it has been requested 7 times, last by goozbach, 1m 23s ago; it has been locked by goozbach. |
| 20:00.37 | findlay | tar cf - goozbach > goozbach.tar |
| 20:05.02 | goozbach | tar: cowardly refusing to create empty archive |
| 20:08.10 | *** join/#utah hans (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 20:08.27 | TimRiker | ~dict retarted |
| 20:09.04 | TimRiker | ibot: goozbach ~= s/retarted/retarded/ |
| 20:09.13 | TimRiker | ibot: goozbach =~ s/retarted/retarded/ |
| 20:09.13 | ibot | TimRiker: OK |
| 20:17.59 | goozbach | if I remember right, there was some reason for that to be retarTed |
| 20:21.28 | graphyx | cause one you stuff it with enough tarts It can't run very fast? |
| 20:22.21 | findlay | ~sasquatch |
| 20:25.01 | findlay | http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&q=retarted+%23utah+site%3Aibot.rikers.org |
| 20:25.03 | brac | [retarted #utah site:ibot.rikers.org - Google Search] |
| 20:25.10 | findlay | goozbach: :) |
| 20:28.18 | goozbach | yup, me being retarted |
| 20:28.26 | goozbach | hyped up on bawls |
| 20:29.36 | *** join/#utah Jayce^ (n=Jayce_@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 20:29.36 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 20:30.46 | *** join/#utah mheath (n=mheath@c-24-2-81-30.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 20:34.22 | findlay | goozbach: can xen run windows? |
| 20:36.00 | Jayce^ | findlay, the windows license prevented the release of the code allowing it |
| 20:37.28 | goozbach | findlay: when the prescot chips finally ship |
| 20:38.04 | findlay | Jayce^: that's dumb |
| 20:42.58 | sjansen | findlay: not if you own windows and you're going to be releasing virtualization hardware in the near future |
| 20:43.10 | sjansen | s/hardware/software/ |
| 20:43.52 | *** join/#utah drewbono (n=andrew@128.187.148.220) |
| 20:44.45 | sjansen | To run on Xen (until hardware virtualization extension are available for x86/amd64), the OS must be modified. Obviously, Microsoft isn't going to be happy with a bunch of Open Source hippies mucking around with one of the crown jewels. |
| 20:44.57 | findlay | but if you own windows will your virtualization software will be t3h sux0r? |
| 20:45.22 | findlay | sjansen: they do that anyway with gusto |
| 20:46.58 | levi | So when are the first chips with virtualization support supposed to come out? |
| 20:48.50 | goozbach | supossedly Q1 this year |
| 20:48.52 | sjansen | All I remember is Real Soon Now(tm). |
| 20:50.20 | levi | So the Intel Duo chips don't have it? |
| 20:52.19 | findlay | does anybody want a 3 cell nickel cadmium 3.6 V 300 mA rechargeable battery? |
| 20:54.41 | sjansen | levi: Wikipedia seems to think they do. |
| 20:54.51 | levi | Hmm. |
| 20:55.20 | goozbach | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanderpool |
| 20:55.44 | levi | Well, if someone ports Xen to the Intel Macs, then there's your way to run Windows. :) |
| 20:56.07 | levi | (Not that I imagine many people /here/ want to run Windows on a Mac) |
| 20:57.06 | levi | Well, I think the Duo chips are probably available in some other laptops, too. |
| 20:58.44 | goozbach | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xen_%28virtual_machine_monitor%29#Full_virtualization_with_Xen |
| 20:58.53 | *** join/#utah Lone_Wanderer (n=chatzill@67.50.22.141) |
| 20:59.06 | synic | woot. Google talk has activated s2s. |
| 20:59.56 | sjansen | Yup. Just saw that about 15 minutes ago. :-) |
| 21:06.29 | Lone_Wanderer | Does it really matter which distro I pick for a web, secondary DNS, and mail server? |
| 21:06.46 | harleypig | Lone_Wanderer: only in the sense that you'll be living with it for awhile. |
| 21:06.57 | jsmith | Lone_Wanderer: Yes. Pick the one that is easiest for you to keep up to date with patches, etc. |
| 21:07.12 | Lone_Wanderer | okay. I don't know which one that would be. |
| 21:10.35 | goozbach | Lone_Wanderer: go with whichever distro sjansen is not currenty using |
| 21:11.02 | Lone_Wanderer | sjansen is a massochist? |
| 21:11.08 | sjansen | I currently not using Gentoo. |
| 21:11.26 | goozbach | Lone_Wanderer: I'm being factious |
| 21:11.30 | goozbach | fedora core |
| 21:11.40 | goozbach | that would be my answer |
| 21:11.48 | Lone_Wanderer | facetious? |
| 21:11.50 | sjansen | ~dict facetious |
| 21:11.54 | sjansen | ~dict factious |
| 21:12.05 | Lone_Wanderer | ahhhh |
| 21:12.46 | Lone_Wanderer | I was going to go with Fedora Core too. Mostly because I hear a lot about it though, which is the same reason a lot of people choose Windows. |
| 21:13.13 | sjansen | That's goozbach for you, opposed to the common good. |
| 21:13.29 | goozbach | and you all thought it was a typo |
| 21:13.43 | sjansen | I'd personally avoid FC for a server. Too much work to stay up to date. I'd choose Debian or CentOS. |
| 21:14.00 | *** join/#utah drewbono (n=andrew@128.187.187.3) |
| 21:14.03 | Lone_Wanderer | That's the second vote for CentOS. |
| 21:14.17 | goozbach | cent |
| 21:14.23 | jsmith | CentOS for me... |
| 21:14.23 | Lone_Wanderer | no C? |
| 21:14.30 | Jayce^ | debian |
| 21:14.35 | tensai | debian |
| 21:14.48 | sjansen | I'd recommend Ubuntu (what I'm using), but goozbach apparently won't let you do that. |
| 21:15.13 | goozbach | ubuntu looks like a good choice as well |
| 21:15.28 | Lone_Wanderer | okay, out of all of those |
| 21:15.28 | goozbach | debian is too far behind for my tastes |
| 21:15.38 | Lone_Wanderer | which is most likely to get downloaded the most quickly? |
| 21:15.39 | Jayce^ | goozbach, which version? |
| 21:15.42 | Jayce^ | testing |
| 21:15.53 | sjansen | Ewwww, testing. |
| 21:16.27 | Lone_Wanderer | actually, scratch that, the next most important decision factor is which is the easiest to install over SSH. (the machine is a 1u box with no CD drive) |
| 21:17.11 | graphyx | I do gentoo ssh installs just fine once I get a base image up on it. |
| 21:17.15 | tensai | debian stable for servers, no matter how old. backports.org for a few newer packages. |
| 21:17.46 | Lone_Wanderer | okay, debian it is |
| 21:18.37 | tensai | testing is fine for desktops, but too hard to track updates |
| 21:19.17 | Lone_Wanderer | but first, lunch |
| 21:48.40 | tensai | why would a box have no network and not allow local login on 2.6, but work perfectly on 2.4? |
| 21:49.05 | tensai | syslog shows that the network drivers are loading in 2.6. with or without udev, same thing. |
| 21:49.08 | graphyx | umm for the network there could be a autoload module not compiled for the kernel. |
| 21:50.05 | tensai | I can see that the interface comes up with the proper IP address |
| 21:50.35 | graphyx | but that would be my only guess. |
| 21:50.35 | ScytheBlade1 | Then how does it have no network? |
| 21:50.49 | tensai | this gets even harder since the box is 300 miles away |
| 21:50.56 | ScytheBlade1 | Ah. |
| 21:51.14 | tensai | ScytheBlade1: that's the part I don't get. I can't ping or ssh it. I get no ARP. But the interface claims to be up. |
| 21:51.46 | ScytheBlade1 | valid routing table? |
| 21:53.15 | jsmith | tensai: Firewall? |
| 21:53.58 | tensai | routing shouldn't be a problem from the same subnet |
| 21:54.13 | tensai | jsmith: I should still get an ARP entry, which I'm not |
| 21:54.22 | graphyx | I think you should ask the usenet wizard. |
| 21:55.55 | sjansen | Weird. Just a hunch, but I'd take a look in /etc/sysctl.conf for anything weird. |
| 21:56.05 | mheath | Stupid question, but I've only ever needed/had one host.... |
| 21:56.14 | mheath | If I have *.mydomain.com pointing to my computer... |
| 21:56.33 | mheath | I can setup apache (and many other programs) to respond differently to particular hostnames, right? |
| 21:56.39 | jsmith | mheath: Yes. |
| 21:57.04 | mheath | Thats what I thought. Thanks :) |
| 21:59.05 | tensai | sjansen: nothing but comments in sysctl.conf |
| 21:59.16 | mheath | I'll be hosting some other peoples stuff; not sure I'd like anything as specific as mheath.net |
| 22:01.35 | *** join/#utah SpecialZ (n=Scott@128.187.188.170) |
| 22:03.46 | sjansen | What distro? |
| 22:03.52 | tensai | debian 3.1 |
| 22:04.12 | tensai | based on syslog the box appears to boot perfectly |
| 22:04.35 | tensai | I assume the local login failure is because we have pam_ldap installed, although it's supposed to fail back to local |
| 22:08.32 | Jayce^ | anybody here using mod_dav much? |
| 22:09.08 | tensai | Jayce^: just a little, for subversion |
| 22:09.45 | Jayce^ | got a problem with mine.. I've had it running for a while, ical publishes to it just fine, but I can't copy to it |
| 22:09.58 | Jayce^ | it starts a transfer, then dies.. |
| 22:10.16 | Jayce^ | I wind up with a 0 byte file, and a ._filename with a little content sometimes |
| 22:10.41 | tensai | *woosh*. right over my head. |
| 22:11.07 | Jayce^ | dang |
| 22:11.56 | tensai | I set it up once over a year ago and haven't touched it since |
| 22:11.58 | graphyx | mheath: Got for becomeoneof.us |
| 22:12.04 | graphyx | s/Got/go/ |
| 22:14.13 | mheath | Can anyone recommend a good method of backups? |
| 22:14.20 | mheath | Something low cost, moderately reliable |
| 22:14.30 | goozbach | mkisofs | cdrecord |
| 22:14.41 | goozbach | tar | ssh some.remote.host |
| 22:14.56 | mheath | Something local, and with reusable media. |
| 22:14.56 | goozbach | mcopy /* a:/ |
| 22:15.48 | mheath | Other than floppy disks |
| 22:15.51 | mheath | a:/ ? |
| 22:15.53 | jsmith | mheath: rdiff-backup, and then burn the result to a CDRW |
| 22:16.02 | goozbach | rsnapshot |
| 22:16.15 | goozbach | mcopy |
| 22:16.18 | goozbach | RTFM |
| 22:16.29 | goozbach | rsync |
| 22:16.32 | goozbach | scp |
| 22:16.39 | ScytheBlade1 | For a moment there I thought you were joking with an older MS-DOS MCOPY joke. |
| 22:17.07 | goozbach | I'm telling him to back up his system to dos formatted floppys |
| 22:17.14 | goozbach | ScytheBlade1: man mcopy |
| 22:17.38 | ScytheBlade1 | wow, you weren't kidding |
| 22:17.57 | ScytheBlade1 | That's kinda scary that it exists like that |
| 22:17.58 | mheath | I was going to say...."We're using DOS now?" |
| 22:18.21 | mheath | But I'm not familiar with mcopy, thought it might have some weird syntax where A:/ would be something completely different than what I thought |
| 22:18.32 | ScytheBlade1 | For a moment, I thought you had lost it with the syntax, but no... you meant it... |
| 22:18.33 | goozbach | no, it's what you think |
| 22:18.40 | goozbach | a:/ |
| 22:21.23 | tensai | mtools is basically a userspace fat filesystem |
| 22:23.16 | sjansen | tensai: I haven't been able to think of anything else, but I'd be curious what the problem turns out to be. |
| 22:24.12 | tensai | sjansen: I may have figured it out. testing it now. |
| 22:24.14 | sjansen | Oo, you know what'd be evil? If the kernel were arptables compatible and there were some arptables rules instead of iptables rules. |
| 22:25.02 | tensai | I'm pretty sure that's not the case. but it does sound deliciously evil. |
| 22:32.21 | tensai | nope. looks like that wasn't it. now my new theory is that the 2.6 e100 driver orders the ports differently. it has 3 ports and eth1 is the only one configured. |
| 22:32.42 | tensai | I put a /bin/sh on tty6 so get around whatever the pam problem is |
| 22:48.39 | jsmith | tensai: The ordering of ports sounds the most likely to me... |
| 22:49.10 | tensai | yeah. still waiting on a remote coworker to try switching cables for me. |
| 22:49.41 | jsmith | tensai: And, of course, you can't login to run mii-tool and see which adapter has link :-) |
| 22:50.22 | tensai | ooh. I forgot mii-tool. |
| 23:02.30 | tensai | jsmith: yup, that was it. the onboard ports used to be loaded second but now are loading first. makes all the difference in the world. |
| 23:02.43 | jsmith | tensai: Bingo! |
| 23:03.04 | tensai | ~onjoin sjansen tensai says "it was loading the network ports in a different order" |
| 23:03.04 | ibot | tensai: ok |
| 23:05.56 | *** join/#utah spr (n=spr@c-24-10-236-93.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 23:23.26 | *** join/#utah maliu1 (n=anon@Ottawa-HSE-ppp269163.sympatico.ca) |
| 23:24.14 | maliu1 | alo? |
| 23:25.14 | goozbach | bueno |
| 23:25.29 | xc1 | v |
| 23:26.00 | xc1 | is anyone here? |
| 23:26.06 | jsmith | Only 48 of us... |
| 23:26.25 | tensai | harleypig counts as 2 people though |
| 23:26.32 | xc1 | i am a noob |
| 23:26.43 | goozbach | what brings you into #utah from canada? |
| 23:27.29 | jsmith | xc1: And why keep changing nicks? |
| 23:28.43 | xc1 | trying them out! |
| 23:29.46 | xc1 | not much chat here |
| 23:29.58 | Jayce^ | people getting ready to go home |
| 23:30.15 | xc1 | what is oss utah anyway? |
| 23:30.20 | xc1 | oss? |
| 23:30.26 | tensai | ~oss |
| 23:30.27 | ibot | i guess oss is a portable sound interface available in 11 different Un*x systems. The propietary package is available at http://www.opensound.com/. However, free systems like GNU/Linux or *BSD include free GPL/BSD re-implementations. an acronym that stands for "Open Source Software" |
| 23:30.29 | brac | [4Front Technologies] |
| 23:30.41 | xc1 | wow! |
| 23:30.47 | tensai | in our case it's Open Source Software |
| 23:30.59 | xc1 | like bsd stuff |
| 23:31.20 | xc1 | ? |
| 23:31.26 | jsmith | xc1: And Linux stuff too. |
| 23:31.33 | tensai | yeah, sure. we have some bsd users around. |
| 23:31.40 | xc1 | too smart for me |
| 23:31.52 | xc1 | i like to use a windowed enviroment |
| 23:32.04 | Uncle_Jesse | anyone live in Taylorsville? |
| 23:32.08 | tensai | so do I. I just choose Linux for my windows. :) |
| 23:32.10 | jsmith | xc1: I use Linux, and use a windowed environment |
| 23:32.13 | Jayce^ | uhh, do you mean *windows* or just windowing :) |
| 23:32.32 | jsmith | Uncle_Jesse: No, but if you can get DSL, you should check out XMission :-) |
| 23:32.50 | jsmith | Uncle_Jesse: (I'm making all kinds of assumptions in that statement, btw.) |
| 23:32.54 | xc1 | i don't like ms stuff cause too much info is collected |
| 23:33.03 | xc1 | about me |
| 23:33.31 | xc1 | i dl'd ubunto but couldn't get it to work kde |
| 23:33.44 | jsmith | xc1: Then try kubuntu... |
| 23:34.10 | xc1 | there's a difference? |
| 23:34.16 | xc1 | i did not know that |
| 23:34.19 | Jayce^ | default of having kde |
| 23:34.47 | xc1 | my copy is universal ubuntu |
| 23:34.54 | *** join/#utah hans (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 23:34.57 | Uncle_Jesse | jsmith: thx - I used them when I used to live in Provo, so I will definitely consider them |
| 23:35.11 | Uncle_Jesse | can you still order a separate ISP here from your cable/dsl provider? |
| 23:35.28 | tensai | dsl yes, cable no. |
| 23:36.54 | Uncle_Jesse | tensai: cool - thx |
| 23:42.09 | xc1 | i am looking at kubuntu now |
| 23:43.18 | xc1 | thank you |
| 23:44.30 | jsmith | no problem |
| 23:49.55 | xc1 | whats the command for getting the channel list plz? |
| 23:50.29 | jsmith | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:50.42 | xc1 | thank you |
| 23:51.02 | xc1 | it is |
| 23:53.49 | *** part/#utah xc1 (n=anon@Ottawa-HSE-ppp269163.sympatico.ca) |
| 23:55.37 | SpecialZ | ~lart maquis |
