| 00:15.23 | *** join/#utah QBFreak (n=Cubey@cpe-069-132-236-161.carolina.res.rr.com) |
| 00:17.24 | goozbach | brac: introduce yourself |
| 00:17.24 | brac | I'm a v. 0.9.9 rubybot, (c) Tom Gilbert - http://linuxbrit.co.uk/rbot/ |
| 00:17.47 | goozbach | I didn't think that'd work. |
| 00:17.52 | QBFreak | heh |
| 00:18.18 | QBFreak | I have a bot for a MUD that is part TinyFugue (mud client) code and mostly softcode on the MUD itself |
| 00:18.38 | QBFreak | I added that nice page title feature with a perl script |
| 00:18.53 | QBFreak | however I just discovered how easy it is to get into the shell with a custom URL :) |
| 00:19.34 | QBFreak | wasn't sure if this one used custom code for that or some sort of perl/shell script (which would have the same issue) |
| 00:21.07 | QBFreak | I suppose most bot writers know what they're doing, unlike myself :) |
| 00:21.18 | *** join/#utah spr (n=spr@c-24-10-236-93.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 00:25.17 | QBFreak | hmm yeah, uses its own custom code |
| 00:25.36 | QBFreak | I'll just find a way to strip ; and > from triggers I suppose |
| 00:29.44 | QBFreak | it'd be interesting to try and adapt this to a MUD... |
| 00:31.49 | maquis | goozbach: that was a good guess |
| 00:32.14 | maquis | ibot: introduce yourself |
| 00:32.43 | QBFreak | I suppose ibot isn't as friendly :) |
| 00:33.17 | goozbach | but as it's mother you're biased |
| 00:33.28 | QBFreak | hehe |
| 00:34.41 | dilvie | somebody write me a bot that will compile my music compilation track-lists for me. |
| 00:35.35 | dilvie | I suppose it would have to be some sort of smart agent, because it would need to have the capability to google artist names and track down their homepages |
| 00:38.29 | maquis | i'm not brac's mom... that was brigham |
| 00:41.49 | findlay | are you brac's dad? |
| 00:41.57 | maquis | umm... no |
| 00:45.14 | *** join/#utah brad2901 (i=one@unaffiliated/brad2901) |
| 01:03.37 | *** join/#utah synic (n=synic@c-67-177-16-249.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 01:04.23 | findlay | ~convert 1 ibot into bracs |
| 01:04.58 | maquis | -lart findlay |
| 01:07.23 | findlay | ~lart brac |
| 01:07.40 | maquis | ~hammerthrow findlay |
| 01:07.47 | ibot | ACTION throws a huge hammer across the room into findlay/'s head |
| 01:08.15 | findlay | ~whaleslap maquis |
| 01:08.18 | ibot | I'll just grab a freakishly huge killer whale named Hugh and slap maquis over the head with it..... |
| 01:08.49 | findlay | ~duck maquis |
| 01:08.50 | ibot | ACTION gives maquis a fuzzy, ugly little duckling, which immediately grows into a full sized swan and pummels maquis with it's big white wings. |
| 01:15.27 | findlay | I get it now |
| 01:15.31 | findlay | I know what raid is |
| 01:15.44 | findlay | it is what kills all the bugs |
| 01:16.15 | findlay | aren't you glad, maquis, you have me around to keep you up on the tech? |
| 01:27.31 | *** part/#utah fungus (n=fungus@firebat.aros.net) |
| 01:43.40 | *** part/#utah hans (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 02:25.54 | *** join/#utah JoshH (i=josh@josh.xmission.com) |
| 02:31.34 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@68.26.75.69) |
| 02:31.57 | graphyx | That was actually funny. |
| 02:37.03 | emcnabb | ~lart graphyx |
| 02:37.39 | graphyx | I mean that someone set up your onjoin to have ibot have brac lart you. |
| 03:03.06 | graphyx | anyone familiar with rsync? |
| 03:03.24 | graphyx | If I can see the rsync modules on another system does that mean I should be able to download them without authentication? |
| 03:14.22 | phinux | Question: My dad runs Red Hat 7.3 on VM Ware on Windows. His machine recently crashed badly. I've been using Knoppix to try and recover his files. Does anyone know if I can find the files he saved while using Red Hat? |
| 03:14.57 | QBFreak | I'm not too familiar with vmware, but I think they get saved in the file it loads for the VM |
| 03:14.59 | graphyx | phinux: You should be able to pull over the entire virtual device directory and move it to another vmware player. |
| 03:15.16 | graphyx | phinux: Unless it wasn't written to the "disk" then it is probably gone. |
| 03:15.29 | phinux | I'm sorry guys, I've never used VM ware so I'm a bit clueless as to how to go about diong that. |
| 03:22.54 | phinux | Thanks guys. Looks like we can get them. |
| 03:23.09 | QBFreak | good to know |
| 03:27.41 | *** part/#utah phinux (n=cliffc@cliffcu.dsl.pdx.spiretech.com) |
| 03:31.28 | *** join/#utah levi (n=levi@levi.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 03:32.39 | *** join/#utah RyanE_ (n=ryan@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 03:33.30 | *** join/#utah bmidgley (n=bmidgley@c-67-186-218-164.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 03:34.30 | bmidgley | any plug people? |
| 03:34.30 | levi | Good evening. |
| 03:34.52 | bmidgley | curious about perl mongers |
| 03:43.56 | graphyx | perl mongers would probably be found in #perl. |
| 03:44.00 | graphyx | but there are a couple here. |
| 03:45.18 | levi | Hmm, my wife wants to buy $60 worth of frozen blueberries. |
| 03:47.23 | graphyx | how much is $60? |
| 03:47.35 | graphyx | worth of blueberries i mean. |
| 03:48.15 | levi | A lot, I suspect, since it's from a church cannery sort of place. |
| 03:48.22 | graphyx | ahh... |
| 03:48.37 | tensai | 20 pounds I would guess. maybe as much as 30. |
| 03:49.18 | levi | I am inclined to dissuade her from purchasing that many, as we have a rather large bag of frozen blueberries from her dad's last trip there already. |
| 03:49.39 | tensai | levi: oh, I made some delicious olive oil. dropped some garlic and rosemary in a jar with the oil, left it for 4 weeks. dipped bread in it. so yummy. |
| 03:49.53 | tensai | I swear I could just sit all day and smell it |
| 03:50.45 | levi | tensai: Mmmmm. |
| 03:51.41 | levi | tensai: I love dipping good rustic bread into olive oil and balsalmic vinegar. |
| 03:52.07 | levi | tensai: Balsalmic vinegar is also surprisingly good on ice cream, especially if you make a balsalmic reduction so it's kind of syrupy. |
| 03:53.11 | tensai | levi: are you referring to the expensive stuff, or even just the cheap-o stuff at the super market? |
| 03:54.07 | levi | tensai: Well, super expensive balsalmic vinegar is already nice and sweet and syrupy, but it's rather expensive, so I don't get to try it very often. |
| 03:55.18 | tensai | levi: ever heard of buerre blanc? |
| 03:56.14 | levi | tensai: I've heard of it, yup. |
| 03:57.13 | tensai | levi: taste good? I just read about it. sounds pretty cool. |
| 03:57.18 | levi | I've had some sauces that are based on it, but not beurre blanc itself. |
| 03:58.35 | levi | Ever been to the Garland Fire Department salmon-fest thing? |
| 04:00.48 | levi | Speaking of balsalmic vinegar, the only time I got to try super-expensive stuff was this time I was browsing around at Pirate O's, a gourmet/import grocery store, and some guy wanted to buy some. It was in a locked case, so the owner guy opened it up and accidentally dropped the bottle! |
| 04:01.24 | levi | In the process of transferring it to another bottle, since the original cracked, he let us try a little bit of it. |
| 04:01.30 | levi | It was REALLY good. |
| 04:04.26 | tensai | no, never been. never heard of it even. |
| 04:04.52 | levi | Well, they have this really yummy sauce they put on it. |
| 04:06.16 | levi | It's similar to beurre blanc, but uses butter, lemon juice, and worchestershire sauce. |
| 04:14.12 | levi | But anyway, it's extremely good on fish, so I imagine beurre blanc is too. |
| 04:19.59 | tensai | I'm just about to finish my smoker, ala Alton Brown. I'm excited. |
| 04:20.34 | levi | smoker? |
| 04:20.42 | levi | maquis: Food, of course. :) |
| 04:20.50 | maquis | ah... that's good |
| 04:20.59 | maquis | i was wondering there what with talk about finishing smokes and such |
| 04:21.49 | tensai | couple terra cotta pots, a rack and a hotplate |
| 04:22.25 | levi | Hmm, my wife was not home today when the UPS guy came by with my new 19" LCD. Will have to wait until tomorrow to get it. |
| 04:33.48 | TimRiker | ibot: reload |
| 04:33.48 | ibot | reloading... |
| 04:33.49 | ibot | reloaded: Irc.pl OnJoin.pl |
| 04:37.28 | maquis | ~onjoin emcnabb |
| 04:37.28 | ibot | -lart emcnabb, maquis |
| 04:37.38 | maquis | good... it didn't mess it up |
| 04:37.40 | maquis | :) |
| 04:37.44 | tensai | ~onjoin tensai_ testing, testing, testing |
| 04:37.44 | ibot | tensai: ok |
| 04:37.49 | *** join/#utah tensai_ (n=cedwards@kite.zmonkey.org) |
| 04:38.00 | findlay | ~whatever |
| 04:38.04 | ibot | extra, extra, read all about it, whatever is an expression of confusionambivalence |
| 04:38.13 | tensai | TimRiker: great, it worked |
| 04:38.26 | tensai | maquis: we just fixed your bug |
| 04:38.51 | maquis | cool |
| 04:38.52 | maquis | :) |
| 04:38.53 | tensai | ~onjoin -tensai_ |
| 04:38.53 | ibot | ok, tensai |
| 04:39.17 | maquis | onjoin maquis i bow before master maquis |
| 04:39.43 | maquis | ~onjoin maquis i bow before master maquis |
| 04:39.44 | ibot | maquis: ok |
| 04:39.55 | maquis | is there a way to do actions? |
| 04:40.01 | maquis | ~onjoin maquis |
| 04:40.01 | ibot | i bow before master maquis, maquis |
| 04:40.04 | tensai | not yet |
| 04:40.09 | maquis | mmk |
| 04:40.21 | maquis | can i see the code to do the onjoin? i'd like to see how it's done |
| 04:40.44 | QBFreak | I imagine it strips / commands, so you can't just /me can you? |
| 04:41.09 | tensai | maquis: it's in cvs |
| 04:43.21 | maquis | tensai: cvs on your machine? |
| 04:43.24 | maquis | or where? |
| 04:44.06 | tensai | http://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=8794 |
| 04:44.07 | brac | [SourceForge.net: CVS] |
| 04:44.53 | tensai | http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/blootbot/blootbot/src/Modules/OnJoin.pl?rev=1.2&view=auto |
| 04:44.59 | maquis | ooh... cool |
| 04:45.42 | tensai | that's the bulk of it. there were a few changes in other files. |
| 04:46.43 | maquis | hmmm |
| 04:46.54 | maquis | it's pretty cool... |
| 04:47.46 | TimRiker | ~blootbot |
| 04:47.49 | ibot | well, blootbot is an IRC bot written in perl descended from infobot. Hosted on SF. Patches welcome, submit on SF or mailto:Tim@Rikers.org, or http://blootbot.sourceforge.net/,. I am a blootbot |
| 04:48.23 | maquis | TimRiker: how many oss projects are you heavily involved in? |
| 04:48.57 | TimRiker | define heavily? |
| 04:49.09 | maquis | erm... |
| 04:49.11 | maquis | i dunno |
| 04:49.44 | maquis | i wsa just curious because you did bzflag, and blootbot... so, i'm curious how many others you're involved in |
| 04:49.51 | TimRiker | http://sourceforge.net/users/timriker/ |
| 04:49.52 | brac | [SourceForge.net: Developer Profile] |
| 04:49.57 | TimRiker | that's some of them. |
| 04:50.17 | maquis | there's developer profiles on sourceforge? that could've come in handy |
| 04:50.36 | maquis | wow... that's a lot |
| 04:51.03 | TimRiker | plus busybox and uclibc from time to time, and I'm TimR@Debian.org too. |
| 04:51.28 | maquis | how do you find the time to be involved in all these? |
| 04:51.32 | TimRiker | and patches to many others. |
| 04:51.51 | TimRiker | my level of involvement varies as time permits. |
| 04:52.15 | levi | TimRiker: You must be one of those weird 'motivated' people. ;) |
| 04:52.34 | TimRiker | course some of them overlap with my work responsibilites. but I can't seem to get paid to work on BZFlag. |
| 04:52.42 | tensai | the funnest part of patching blootbot is that I've been an apt/ibot user for so long |
| 04:52.46 | maquis | the thing that impresses me is that they're not tiny projects... i mean... bzflag is big... |
| 04:53.01 | maquis | (and really cool and fun) |
| 04:53.07 | TimRiker | =) |
| 04:53.28 | QBFreak | all stuff of my own making, not really OSS or anything, just stuff |
| 04:53.38 | maquis | i got a friend hooked on bzflag in < 10 minutes... now, whenever he sees me online, he talks me into playing |
| 04:53.58 | QBFreak | err to a, not of a |
| 04:54.00 | maquis | i'm just trying to get my website up |
| 04:54.13 | levi | Hmm, apparently $60 of blueberries is 40 lbs. |
| 04:54.21 | tensai | meh, websites are so over-rated |
| 04:54.26 | QBFreak | before or after frozen? |
| 04:54.39 | tensai | $1.50 per pound then |
| 04:54.40 | QBFreak | or am I being silly and the weight is the same? |
| 04:54.58 | levi | QBFreak: I dunno. |
| 04:55.10 | goozbach | QBFreak: things tend to be denser frozen |
| 04:55.16 | levi | But I don't think we need 40lbs of frozen blueberries. |
| 04:55.50 | tensai | quiz time. what state produces the most blueberries? |
| 04:56.13 | TimRiker | ibot: what state produces the most blueberries? |
| 04:56.18 | TimRiker | aw |
| 04:56.20 | goozbach | TimRiker: how much does it way |
| 04:56.25 | goozbach | er weigh? |
| 04:56.34 | tensai | the answer is Minnesota |
| 04:56.40 | bmidgley | Tim... weren't you working on a linux handheld at TI? |
| 04:56.42 | TimRiker | goozbach: no idea. less than a pound. |
| 04:56.57 | TimRiker | bmidgley: yeah, till rich templeton killed it. |
| 04:56.57 | tensai | but what state produces the most fresh blueberries (rather than frozen)? |
| 04:57.13 | maquis | haha |
| 04:57.14 | bmidgley | was it because of nokia's 770 that he killed it? |
| 04:57.39 | tensai | why, New Jersey of course |
| 04:57.44 | QBFreak | RIM BlackBerry 7100g: Weight-- 4.2 oz |
| 04:57.44 | goozbach | maybe I'll be to work on time tomorrow |
| 04:57.50 | maquis | haha |
| 04:58.23 | TimRiker | tensai: main. |
| 04:58.29 | TimRiker | er Maine |
| 04:58.45 | bmidgley | i bought a 770 and it is nice but it feels like it needs about twice the ram |
| 04:58.52 | TimRiker | ~convert 7100 grams to ounces |
| 04:59.07 | TimRiker | hehe |
| 04:59.39 | goozbach | methinks 7100g is the model? |
| 04:59.51 | TimRiker | yeah, being funny. |
| 04:59.51 | goozbach | or that's one heavy pda |
| 04:59.52 | tensai | then it's a misnomer |
| 05:00.05 | TimRiker | ~convert 7100 grams to pounds |
| 05:00.19 | QBFreak | hey, its lighter than my KayPro |
| 05:00.34 | TimRiker | any way lighter than my HP-2116 |
| 05:00.39 | TimRiker | s/any/and/ |
| 05:01.03 | TimRiker | ibot: 230 / 15.6528 |
| 05:01.04 | ibot | 14.693856690177 |
| 05:01.11 | goozbach | something like this: http://www.ebaumsworld.com/images2/computervintage2.jpg |
| 05:01.14 | TimRiker | like by a factor of 15. |
| 05:01.33 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wade@65.73.113.199) |
| 05:01.34 | tensai | I'm assuming thie 2116 isn't a portable |
| 05:02.20 | TimRiker | http://rikers.org/gallery/hardware-hp2116a/20050426_004016 |
| 05:02.34 | QBFreak | niice |
| 05:02.42 | TimRiker | uh... no. at 130 pounds it's hardly movable. |
| 05:02.48 | TimRiker | er 230 pounds... |
| 05:03.43 | QBFreak | thats cool, sadly I have nothing quite that nifty |
| 05:04.11 | QBFreak | KayPro 2X, Apple //c, generic 8088, not near as nifty |
| 05:04.20 | TimRiker | it's not yet running. I've got a "newer" hp that is: http://rikers.org/hp2100/hp2108a-chaser.avi |
| 05:05.20 | QBFreak | I do have a variation of this: http://qbfreak.net/images/100_1776.mov |
| 05:06.34 | QBFreak | not quite as nifty either but it'll be handy for automated DVD backups :) |
| 05:08.49 | TimRiker | QBFreak: cool in its own right. |
| 05:09.08 | QBFreak | yeah, a good deal at $25 |
| 05:09.20 | TimRiker | sweet! where? |
| 05:09.23 | QBFreak | after getting paid to replace the innards |
| 05:09.38 | QBFreak | cast-off at work |
| 05:09.54 | QBFreak | if there were more I would have bought them, upgraded and sold :) |
| 05:10.24 | TimRiker | anyone at UofU here? drop by the samvage yard and ask em if they ever get really old computers in. |
| 05:10.29 | QBFreak | nobody has yelled at me yet, so I assume I'm ok |
| 05:10.54 | *** join/#utah pmcnabb (n=peter@12-208-14-28.client.insightBB.com) |
| 05:10.55 | QBFreak | North, greater Charlotte area |
| 05:11.07 | TimRiker | QBFreak: all are welcome here. well, all that aren't rude. ;-) |
| 05:11.21 | QBFreak | yeah, seem to be a pretty good bunch :) |
| 05:11.24 | levi | I used to live on Ft. Bragg. |
| 05:12.19 | QBFreak | I've got friends who work at a came near Fayetteville most summers, I think thats near there isn't it? |
| 05:12.22 | QBFreak | err camp |
| 05:13.16 | levi | QBFreak: Yeah, Ft. Bragg is right by Fayetteville. |
| 05:13.30 | TimRiker | anybody here who'd like to play with an old HP is welcome to drop by sometime for a demo. |
| 05:13.31 | tensai | QBFreak: I'm in Idaho, so you're not the only one |
| 05:13.45 | QBFreak | ah good :) |
| 05:13.48 | TimRiker | it'll be more fun once I get the paper tape reader and punch working. |
| 05:14.05 | QBFreak | TimRiker: I'll have to keep that in mind if I ever find myself in the area |
| 05:14.14 | TimRiker | sure. |
| 05:15.41 | findlay | The secret lies with Charlotte |
| 05:16.10 | TimRiker | big company salvage outlets mostly. |
| 05:16.24 | levi | maquis: It doesn't take much to start a flamewar. |
| 05:16.34 | findlay | just a flash |
| 05:16.36 | tensai | levi: does too. you suck! |
| 05:16.39 | maquis | levi: obviously |
| 05:16.39 | findlay | and some fuel |
| 05:16.43 | TimRiker | tensai: so did I win? with Maine I mean? |
| 05:16.52 | tensai | TimRiker: no, it was New Jersey |
| 05:16.53 | levi | tensai: No, you suck! |
| 05:17.00 | maquis | findlay: i'm not quite sure plug needs any extra fuel |
| 05:17.14 | TimRiker | tensai: really? I find that hard to believe |
| 05:17.16 | QBFreak | I'm still trying to get a good job to get a place of my own, but it'd be awesome to have space to keep some stuff like that |
| 05:17.36 | tensai | TimRiker: that's what New Jersey claims anyway |
| 05:17.46 | tensai | can't say I've personally verified it |
| 05:18.06 | findlay | TimRiker's collection probably guzzles a kilowatt altogether |
| 05:18.29 | QBFreak | heh yeah, power is an issue with big stuff |
| 05:19.13 | TimRiker | http://www.fas.usda.gov/htp/horticulture/blueberry.html reports otherwise. |
| 05:19.14 | brac | [Blueberry Commodity Page] |
| 05:19.22 | tensai | TimRiker: so I've got a patch to do <action>. is it worth doing s/\$who/$nick/ as well? what would the right token to search for? |
| 05:20.00 | TimRiker | claims NJ at 21% and MI at 33% |
| 05:20.53 | TimRiker | tensai: would be cool to do the dollar variable expansion. so $randnick etc would work. |
| 05:21.27 | QBFreak | I gave NightMAREbot (a bot I have on a mud) that page titile feature I saw brac doing, its been a hit with the players |
| 05:21.48 | TimRiker | tensai: also says that maine produces 100% of the wild blueberry crop. numbers are for 2003 though. |
| 05:22.20 | tensai | it was michigan, not minnesota. they produce the most blueberries. NJ apparently produces the most /fresh/ berries. |
| 05:22.55 | maquis | tensai: wait... can you do onjoin $foo -lart $foo? |
| 05:23.10 | tensai | maquis: you saw the code. what do you think? |
| 05:23.37 | maquis | tensai: i dunno... i think so... |
| 05:23.46 | TimRiker | maquis: <reply> see lart $nick perhaps? ;-) |
| 05:23.49 | tensai | TimRiker: well, no. they're frozen after being picked. most of the ones from NJ are sold fresh. |
| 05:24.08 | TimRiker | ah. so nobody in maine to eat them then? ;-) |
| 05:25.11 | tensai | you know MI is michigan, right? ME is maine... |
| 05:27.54 | tensai | TimRiker: explain how this $randnick this works |
| 05:28.52 | mheath | Wow, I don't think that my boss believes me about where I was last week =D |
| 05:29.04 | tensai | s/$randnick this/$randnick thing/ |
| 05:29.15 | tensai | is it something built-in, or would I have to code that too? |
| 05:29.45 | mheath | He started asking tons of questions, all fairly obviously trying to trip me up and show that I'm lieing |
| 05:30.03 | mheath | I think he's under the impression that I'm trying to pretend I'm actual enlisted military, though I've never said I was. |
| 05:33.26 | QBFreak | sometimes it helps to look first... |
| 05:33.54 | TimRiker | ibot: listvalues randnick |
| 05:34.16 | TimRiker | ibot: literal foobar4334 |
| 05:34.19 | ibot | "foobar4334" is "<reply> see foobar4334 $randnick" |
| 05:34.29 | TimRiker | ibot foobar4334 |
| 05:34.36 | TimRiker | heh |
| 05:34.45 | TimRiker | ibot forget foobar4334 |
| 05:34.46 | ibot | TimRiker: i forgot foobar4334 |
| 05:34.57 | TimRiker | ibot literal rlart |
| 05:34.59 | ibot | "rlart" is "<reply> see lart $randnick" |
| 05:35.03 | TimRiker | ~rlart |
| 05:35.19 | TimRiker | ~rlart |
| 05:35.26 | TimRiker | etc. |
| 05:36.07 | TimRiker | tensai: there is a function that does dollar variable expansion. don't write a new one, just use the existing one. |
| 05:37.07 | maquis | -lart TimRiker |
| 05:43.20 | TimRiker | eek. what was that thing? |
| 05:44.22 | maquis | TimRiker: ?? |
| 05:45.38 | TimRiker | the "bug" in my belly |
| 05:45.52 | maquis | ah |
| 05:46.53 | mheath | gah, why am I such a procastinator? |
| 05:49.14 | QBFreak | eh, job opportunity fell through |
| 05:49.27 | QBFreak | looks like I'm gonna either be calling the temp agency or back to pizza |
| 05:49.55 | mheath | QBFreak: I'm going to have to quit my job soon. |
| 05:50.09 | mheath | Unless I can figure out a way to make this work =\ |
| 05:50.25 | mheath | ~praise gmail |
| 05:50.26 | ibot | All hail gmail! |
| 05:50.41 | mheath | Nice to have every piece of e-mail I've ever sent or recieved nicely archived and searchable |
| 05:50.48 | QBFreak | mine is on hold, until corporate gets around to approving the contract renewals for contract help |
| 05:51.02 | QBFreak | gmail is nice |
| 05:51.42 | QBFreak | but even then, its back to hoping they'll have enough work to avoid more than a few days off between conversions |
| 05:51.50 | QBFreak | err enough money to pay me |
| 05:54.21 | QBFreak | I've only got a years experience in IT, its hard enough to find something with more from what I've seen |
| 05:55.20 | tensai | TimRiker: found it. patch on its way. hope I'm not flooding you with these. |
| 06:19.24 | TimRiker | ibot: reload |
| 06:19.24 | ibot | reloading... |
| 06:19.24 | ibot | reloaded: OnJoin.pl |
| 06:19.52 | TimRiker | ibot: onjoin TimRiker <action> runs and hides from his master |
| 06:19.52 | ibot | TimRiker: ok |
| 06:19.54 | *** part/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 06:19.58 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 06:19.58 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 06:20.03 | TimRiker | woot! |
| 06:20.23 | findlay | ~lart TimRiker |
| 06:20.33 | TimRiker | ~bzfrag findlay |
| 06:20.37 | ibot | ACTION makes findlay feel the effects of a shockwave |
| 06:21.12 | mheath | ibot: onjoin mheath <action> sounds Over the Side on the Boatswain's Pipe...mheath, arriving. |
| 06:21.12 | ibot | mheath: ok |
| 06:21.16 | *** part/#utah mheath (n=mheath@c-24-2-81-30.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 06:21.16 | *** join/#utah mheath (n=mheath@c-24-2-81-30.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 06:21.35 | mheath | Hoorah :) |
| 06:21.37 | TimRiker | too much for findlay? |
| 06:21.48 | *** part/#utah maquis (n=maquis@joanna.zmonkey.org) |
| 06:21.52 | *** join/#utah maquis (n=maquis@joanna.zmonkey.org) |
| 06:22.30 | TimRiker | ibot: onjoin maquis <action> bows before master maquis |
| 06:22.30 | ibot | ok, TimRiker |
| 06:22.32 | mheath | Wow |
| 06:22.39 | maquis | TimRiker: i was about to fix that :) |
| 06:22.41 | mheath | What moron came up with this amazing wording: |
| 06:22.43 | TimRiker | =) |
| 06:22.43 | *** part/#utah maquis (n=maquis@joanna.zmonkey.org) |
| 06:22.46 | *** join/#utah maquis (n=maquis@joanna.zmonkey.org) |
| 06:22.49 | mheath | "World War II, also known as the Second World War....." |
| 06:22.54 | maquis | haha |
| 06:23.04 | maquis | sorry... i think i missed what that was from |
| 06:23.18 | mheath | Really? World War II is the *second world war*?! Who would have guessed? |
| 06:23.23 | mheath | maquis: you didn't |
| 06:25.25 | maquis | mheath: hmmm... well, i didn't see it |
| 06:25.32 | maquis | where is it from? |
| 06:27.23 | mheath | Wikipedia |
| 06:29.54 | maquis | ah |
| 06:40.37 | *** part/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@216-190-206-130.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 06:42.42 | maquis | hrm |
| 06:43.39 | *** join/#utah synic (n=synic@pdpc/supporter/student/synic) |
| 06:44.46 | maquis | what does this mean: "The $PHP_AUTH_USER, $PHP_AUTH_PW and $PHP_AUTH_TYPE global variables are only available when PHP is installed as a module." How do i know if php is installed as a module or not? |
| 06:51.09 | QBFreak | I would imagine you could check the output from phpinfo() for the Apache Environment section |
| 06:51.23 | QBFreak | not 100% sure about that though |
| 06:51.42 | maquis | i'll try that |
| 06:52.19 | maquis | mod_php5 |
| 06:52.29 | maquis | that's listed under "apache2handler" |
| 06:52.33 | QBFreak | sounds like a module to me |
| 06:52.52 | QBFreak | but I just fiddle with apache, so I could be wrong :) |
| 06:53.06 | maquis | hmmm... if that's not the problem, i wonder why those aren't getting set |
| 06:53.47 | QBFreak | are you authenticating to view that page? |
| 06:54.26 | maquis | i'm attempting to set up authentication on a page... it pops up the authentication box, but it's not setting the variables |
| 06:54.38 | QBFreak | odd |
| 06:54.50 | maquis | yeah |
| 06:55.00 | QBFreak | I've never tried to retreive the auth info, I've always just used to to protect a few scripts and such |
| 06:55.29 | maquis | i'm thinking about going with a different idea |
| 06:56.20 | QBFreak | hmm, I think gallery is written in PHP *pokes it* |
| 06:57.43 | QBFreak | oh no, that uses its own login prompt |
| 06:57.53 | QBFreak | twiki uses apache but thats perl... |
| 06:58.34 | maquis | i'm thinking about stealing some oss code and making a separate login prompt |
| 06:58.41 | QBFreak | hehe |
| 07:03.42 | QBFreak | heh |
| 07:03.55 | QBFreak | ~lart apache |
| 07:04.12 | QBFreak | hmm, that was worse than I intended |
| 07:05.35 | QBFreak | this .htpasswd works in one spot, so I copy it and the .htaccess, modify the .htaccess to point to the new .htpasswd and it no longer works |
| 07:05.52 | maquis | ouch |
| 07:05.56 | QBFreak | it doesn't like my password |
| 07:07.30 | QBFreak | heh |
| 07:07.42 | QBFreak | I could have sworn I had a test twiki somewhere... |
| 07:08.19 | QBFreak | helps if I check the right server |
| 07:08.26 | maquis | haha |
| 07:09.17 | maquis | ooh... that's exciting... this one has a place to rate it, but i'm not seeing a link to the script anywhere |
| 07:09.37 | maquis | am i missing it someplace: http://www.devscripts.com/scripts/3426/index.html |
| 07:09.40 | brac | [Password protect a page - Password protection for a single page. Visitors are required to enter a password and username into a login form to view the page content.] |
| 07:10.06 | maquis | oh... |
| 07:10.06 | maquis | nm |
| 07:10.10 | maquis | you have to click "visit" |
| 07:10.24 | QBFreak | how nice |
| 07:10.29 | QBFreak | I missed that |
| 07:10.39 | maquis | :) |
| 07:11.01 | QBFreak | I love 500 errors, arg |
| 07:11.24 | maquis | the big problem that i'm not getting from most of these scripts is: i need to get the password to php securely... |
| 07:11.43 | QBFreak | afaik the only way to do that is to use https |
| 07:11.50 | maquis | yeah |
| 07:11.58 | maquis | i suppose i just need to google how to do that |
| 07:12.22 | QBFreak | you need a certificate for that, however you can use an unsigned one nad jsut have the client fuss every time |
| 07:12.31 | maquis | i'm going to be the client |
| 07:12.38 | maquis | so, i'm not overly worried about that |
| 07:12.49 | QBFreak | like a page of a friend here, it should ask you about it: https://wiley.n7lem.net/diana/ |
| 07:16.27 | maquis | http://www.freebsddiary.org/openssl-client-authentication.php <-- that might work! |
| 07:16.28 | brac | [The FreeBSD Diary -- Client Authentication with SSL] |
| 07:17.24 | QBFreak | that reminds me to install webmin |
| 07:20.59 | QBFreak | and I need to get the FC 4 CDs from work |
| 07:24.00 | maquis | *grumble* |
| 07:34.58 | QBFreak | are you maquis as in star trek? |
| 07:36.42 | maquis | yup |
| 07:36.54 | QBFreak | voyager? |
| 07:36.57 | maquis | yeah |
| 07:37.03 | QBFreak | cool |
| 07:38.29 | QBFreak | until I got sidetracked yesterday, I was designing starship systems on a mud, I was watching voyager and got bitten by the bug again :) |
| 07:38.38 | maquis | :) |
| 07:39.41 | maquis | i was always a fan of the maquis... |
| 07:48.09 | QBFreak | reboot time |
| 07:52.33 | *** join/#utah QBFreak (n=Cubey@cpe-069-132-236-161.carolina.res.rr.com) |
| 07:54.53 | maquis | to bed with me |
| 07:54.59 | maquis | ~sleep maquis |
| 07:55.04 | ibot | ACTION sends maquis to bed without supper |
| 07:55.04 | QBFreak | 'night |
| 07:55.07 | maquis | gnight |
| 08:37.27 | TimRiker | tensai: I found some other bugs with IsChanConf. bloot was not handling negative booleans in the config. it works now. |
| 08:37.36 | TimRiker | tensai: thanx for the patch. ;-) |
| 08:38.09 | TimRiker | had to change core.pl, restarting bot =( |
| 08:38.12 | TimRiker | ibot: die |
| 08:45.03 | *** join/#utah ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 08:45.03 | *** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, uphpu.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com. See planetutah.adelantellc.com for aggregate feeds | if you're looking to donate an old computer, check out stuporglue.org, *SSS 2006.01 released* [ http://softwarefor.org/get_software.html ] |
| 08:45.03 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 08:47.36 | TimRiker | ibot: chanset #utah OnJoin 0 |
| 08:47.36 | ibot | Setting OnJoin for #utah to '0'. |
| 08:47.41 | *** part/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 08:47.45 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 08:47.45 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 08:48.02 | TimRiker | ibot: chanset #utah -OnJoin |
| 08:48.02 | ibot | setting OnJoin for #utah already 0. |
| 08:48.18 | TimRiker | ibot: chanset #utah OnJoin 1 |
| 08:48.18 | ibot | Setting OnJoin for #utah to '1'. |
| 08:48.22 | TimRiker | ibot: chanset #utah -OnJoin |
| 08:48.22 | ibot | Unsetting OnJoin for #utah; was '1'. |
| 12:09.44 | *** join/#utah bzob_ (n=bzobrist@nat.myfamilyinc.com) |
| 12:10.00 | *** join/#utah lars-ut-away (n=me@70.103.228.158) |
| 15:07.13 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wade@38.119.178.10) |
| 15:10.45 | *** join/#utah Goshen (n=Goshen@67-40-107-29.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 15:30.50 | *** join/#utah hans (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 15:31.28 | graphyx | ibot, why not everyone else does.. |
| 15:34.17 | graphyx | whats the command to create an onjoin message? |
| 15:38.29 | hans | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:51.57 | *** join/#utah hans (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 16:06.53 | *** join/#utah Bradipo (i=bradipo@xmission.xmission.com) |
| 16:08.47 | *** join/#utah jsmith (n=jsmith@64.0.193.31) |
| 16:16.46 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@204.14.21.69) |
| 16:24.00 | *** join/#utah tapH20guru (n=tapH20gu@204.110.228.254) |
| 16:24.22 | hans | -lart tapH20guru |
| 16:24.42 | tapH20guru | nice thx |
| 16:24.44 | *** join/#utah spr (n=spr@ramona.cs.byu.edu) |
| 16:25.00 | tapH20guru | mm... sandy oatmeal |
| 16:25.30 | tapH20guru | anyone know about ISP in the phoenix area? I'm looking for a cool one like Xmission |
| 16:25.51 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@216-190-206-130.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 16:25.59 | hans | methinks it could only be an improvement. |
| 16:26.09 | hans | moving to phoenix? |
| 16:26.21 | jsmith | tapH20guru: http://www.isprank.com/State/AZ/Central+Phoenix.html |
| 16:26.22 | tapH20guru | possibly :) |
| 16:26.29 | hans | too hot. forget it. |
| 16:26.33 | tapH20guru | lol |
| 16:26.35 | jsmith | tapH20guru: At least you get breakfast :-) |
| 16:26.38 | hans | Las Cruces, otoh, is not _too_ hot. |
| 16:26.50 | hans | at least, it's only too hot for a couple of months. |
| 16:27.10 | tapH20guru | i'm a nerd - i'll be in-doors in front of a comp all day |
| 16:27.20 | tapH20guru | jsmith: breakfast? |
| 16:27.28 | *** join/#utah mrpull- (n=mrpull|@205.158.184.112) |
| 16:27.29 | hans | if they have A/C |
| 16:27.47 | tapH20guru | who doesn't in AZ? you DIE without it |
| 16:28.16 | hans | cheap coding sweatshops. ;-) |
| 16:28.19 | tapH20guru | lol |
| 16:28.27 | jsmith | tapH20guru: The oatmeal, with the sand in it :-) |
| 16:28.31 | tapH20guru | it's not china... just AZ:) |
| 16:28.39 | tapH20guru | mmm yes... sand |
| 16:28.41 | hans | there's a difference? |
| 16:28.50 | hans | oh yes, Arizonans are taller |
| 16:28.53 | tapH20guru | i don't speak mandarin so I hope there's a diff |
| 16:29.37 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 16:29.37 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 16:29.40 | hans | all I know is that the majority of people living in AZ must be insane. Living amongst the insane could be interesting, I suppose... |
| 16:29.40 | *** join/#utah synic (n=synic@166-220-065-212.mobile.mymmode.com) |
| 16:30.54 | tapH20guru | makes it not boring I guess... and I suppose you could say the same about Utah :) |
| 16:31.09 | hans | absolutely. :) |
| 16:32.26 | tapH20guru | ISPRank blows.. no DSL in mesa? riiiiight |
| 16:33.21 | jsmith | tapH20guru: Yeah, I just checked it for Utah, and it sucks too -- doesn't even list XMission |
| 16:33.25 | tapH20guru | lol |
| 16:33.40 | jsmith | tapH20guru: I just sent the first link that google found :-) |
| 16:34.01 | tapH20guru | isn't there a word for people who do that :) |
| 16:34.16 | tapH20guru | -lart jsmith |
| 16:34.20 | tapH20guru | ouch! |
| 16:35.00 | jsmith | Yeah, they're called trolls. |
| 16:36.58 | Bradipo | Anyone here ever use bondedsender.com? |
| 16:45.33 | mrpull- | anybody admin WSUS? |
| 16:47.33 | *** join/#utah levi (n=levi@66.239.25.2.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 16:51.43 | *** join/#utah Uncle_Jesse (n=jstay@166.70.183.108) |
| 16:52.43 | levi | Good morning. |
| 16:55.17 | Uncle_Jesse | morning |
| 17:08.18 | *** join/#utah Jayce^ (n=Jayce_@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 17:08.18 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 17:11.34 | *** join/#utah synic (n=synic@pdpc/supporter/student/synic) |
| 17:14.50 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 17:14.50 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 17:16.28 | Uncle_Jesse | see - told you ibot was a boy |
| 17:16.55 | tensai | ~gender |
| 17:17.00 | ibot | I'm female |
| 17:18.27 | Uncle_Jesse | tensai: yes, but his master says he's male |
| 17:19.02 | tensai | clearly ibot is having gender identity issues |
| 17:23.20 | graphyx | ~gender |
| 17:23.23 | ibot | I'm sexless |
| 17:24.53 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 17:28.58 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 17:45.14 | mrpull- | http://blogs.securiteam.com/index.php/archives/174 |
| 17:45.23 | mrpull- | whoa pandora is asking for abuse |
| 17:47.51 | Jayce^ | niiiiice |
| 17:48.00 | *** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@65.89.234.66) |
| 17:48.43 | *** join/#utah hans (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 17:49.39 | goozbach | howdy fozzmoo |
| 17:49.49 | Jayce^ | goozbach, whatcha doing this weekend? |
| 17:50.23 | graphyx | There should be a rule that you can't set your own onjoin message. |
| 17:51.45 | TimRiker | ~literal genger |
| 17:51.47 | TimRiker | ~literal gender |
| 17:51.49 | ibot | "gender" is "<reply> I'm (gay|lesbian|female|sexless|male|hermaphroditic|pregnant|not sure)" |
| 17:52.02 | goozbach | Jayce^: didn't have anything planned |
| 17:52.15 | TimRiker | graphyx: well, I can set ibot to ignore you, then you won't be able to. would that help? |
| 17:52.20 | tensai | graphyx: then you'll just have to switch nicks to change your message |
| 17:53.06 | graphyx | Just thought it would be an interesting social thing that only others could set a given persons onjoin message. |
| 17:53.19 | graphyx | so that it say more about what others think of the person than what they think about themselves... |
| 17:53.34 | TimRiker | tensai: you saw my patches last night? chanset will now set a '0' value. useful to turn off channel features that are on globaly. ie: |
| 17:53.39 | TimRiker | ibot: chanset OnJoin |
| 17:53.39 | ibot | Showing OnJoin values on all channels... |
| 17:53.39 | ibot | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:53.39 | ibot | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:53.39 | ibot | End of list. |
| 17:53.52 | TimRiker | hmm. it missed the 0. |
| 17:54.02 | TimRiker | ibot: chanset #botpark OnJoin |
| 17:54.02 | ibot | OnJoin for #botpark is not set. |
| 17:54.09 | fozzmoo | Hi all |
| 17:54.12 | TimRiker | oh. I thought I set that. |
| 17:54.16 | TimRiker | ibot: chanset #botpark OnJoin 0 |
| 17:54.16 | ibot | Setting OnJoin for #botpark to '0'. |
| 17:54.21 | TimRiker | ibot: chanset OnJoin |
| 17:54.21 | ibot | Showing OnJoin values on all channels... |
| 17:54.21 | ibot | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:54.21 | ibot | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:54.22 | ibot | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:54.22 | ibot | End of list. |
| 17:54.23 | hans | -lart fozzmoo |
| 17:54.35 | tensai | TimRiker: nice :) |
| 17:54.36 | fozzmoo | hUH? |
| 17:55.30 | TimRiker | ibot: chanset #botpark -OnJoin |
| 17:55.30 | ibot | Unsetting OnJoin for #botpark; was '0'. |
| 17:55.40 | jsmith | TimRiker: Mind adding OnJoin to #asterisk-doc? |
| 17:56.53 | TimRiker | jsmith: it's on everywhere that the bot it at present. (see the _default above) |
| 17:56.54 | Jayce^ | goozbach, big pickup game tomorrow and the field near the state boys prison down in south provo |
| 17:57.05 | Jayce^ | bunch of the parapalegic turtles... |
| 17:57.24 | goozbach | ohh |
| 17:57.31 | TimRiker | ibot: onjoin #asterisk-doc jsmith <action> reminds jsmith that OnJoin is on here. |
| 17:57.31 | ibot | TimRiker: ok |
| 17:57.33 | goozbach | what time? |
| 17:57.59 | hans | ~time |
| 17:58.01 | ibot | 2006.01.06 17:58:01 GMT |
| 17:58.07 | fozzmoo | Jayce^: pickup game? |
| 17:58.08 | Jayce^ | 11 |
| 17:58.15 | Jayce^ | fozzmoo, paintball.. |
| 17:58.23 | fozzmoo | why is it called a pickup game? |
| 17:59.10 | Jayce^ | random groups of people are just going to go there, not the usual friends groups we always play with |
| 17:59.36 | fozzmoo | I love mind control experiments. |
| 17:59.43 | goozbach | fozzmoo: cause we'll be playing from the back of pickup trucks |
| 17:59.59 | goozbach | strafing run! |
| 18:00.00 | fozzmoo | Turn on the mind confabulator... see who shows up to play paintball. |
| 18:01.28 | fozzmoo | Random groups of people just came here today. Many unsuspecting individuals were pelted repeatedly with paint despite their not wearing protection. |
| 18:02.06 | fozzmoo | "They came. They get hit. That's the rules," a masked gunman who only identified himself as 'Jayce^' said. |
| 18:03.21 | fozzmoo | These random groups of people will undoubtably struggle to get their lives back as they try to return to whatever they were doing Saturday morning before they mysteriously found themselves in South Provo being pelted with paintballs. Back to you, John. |
| 18:05.01 | goozbach | "sources say that a rooftop was controled by a man sporting a ghuille suit and a paintball sniper rifle." |
| 18:07.52 | hans | "That's j-a-c- no, wait, j-a-y-c-e-carrot. don't forget the carrot" |
| 18:11.09 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 18:11.09 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 18:21.14 | mheath | Paintball......bah. |
| 18:34.49 | Jayce^ | lars-ut, yes, there are versions |
| 18:35.09 | Jayce^ | and it can't go too fast, because the ball will break |
| 18:37.25 | goozbach | come shoot a real person |
| 18:37.28 | goozbach | it's great |
| 18:39.01 | tensai | http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/01/wisconsin_votin.html |
| 18:39.03 | brac | [Schneier on Security: Wisconsin Voting Machines] |
| 18:39.08 | tensai | yay for wisconsin |
| 18:39.25 | *** join/#utah RyanE (n=ryan@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 18:42.12 | lars-ut | goozbach: I'm not sure how to respond to that |
| 18:44.12 | lars-ut | jacyce: are there scopes? |
| 18:44.18 | lars-ut | jayce |
| 18:44.31 | Jayce^ | there are.. |
| 18:44.33 | goozbach | http://www.pbsniper.com/sniperw&p.html |
| 18:44.35 | brac | [paintball sniper weapons and gear;p] |
| 18:44.38 | Jayce^ | how good they are is questionable though.. |
| 18:44.53 | Jayce^ | you are firing a spherical object, that won't want to go more that 300 or so feet :) |
| 18:45.09 | lars-ut | what about the effective ness of laser sights? |
| 18:45.33 | lars-ut | or is it better just to get a fell for the gun - that's what I found when I tried it |
| 18:45.37 | lars-ut | feel |
| 18:45.38 | Jayce^ | pretty decent, but often in environments where they won't help you much |
| 18:45.42 | Jayce^ | feel |
| 18:45.54 | Jayce^ | you wind up doing a lot more snap shots and such |
| 18:46.02 | lars-ut | feel! |
| 18:46.17 | lars-ut | "The same thing we do every night, Pinky. Try to take over the world!" |
| 18:46.25 | Jayce^ | Narf! |
| 18:46.39 | lars-ut | :) |
| 18:46.40 | goozbach | the effective range of my marker is now >100' |
| 18:47.07 | Jayce^ | goozbach, you got that barrel tuned up now? |
| 18:47.24 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 18:47.45 | lars-ut | ~pimpslap ibot |
| 18:47.49 | ibot | lars-ut pimpslaps ibot. ouch! |
| 18:49.19 | goozbach | Jayce^: I seated it a little better and used better paint |
| 18:49.35 | goozbach | now I can go through an entire hopper with only 1-2 breaks |
| 18:57.12 | lars-ut | paintball sniper weapons and gear;p |
| 18:57.12 | lars-ut | http://www.pbsniper.com/sniperw&p.html |
| 18:57.15 | lars-ut | oops |
| 18:57.17 | brac | [paintball sniper weapons and gear;p] |
| 18:57.19 | lars-ut | http://linuxgazette.net/122/TWDT.html#piszcz |
| 18:57.46 | fozzmoo | Wish I could come, but I'm doing video tomorrow. |
| 18:58.13 | lars-ut | http://linuxgazette.net/122/TWDT.html#piszcz [# Benchmarking Filesystems Part II, by Justin Piszcz] |
| 18:58.29 | lars-ut | from /. today |
| 19:06.00 | lars-ut | I agree with some of the comments, that Mr. Piszcz should have benchmarked on a > 500 Mhz proc. |
| 19:07.28 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@obelix.cs.byu.edu) |
| 19:08.42 | hans | how could he, with a name like that? |
| 19:15.01 | *** join/#utah beandog (n=sdibb@64.50.56.200) |
| 19:23.33 | *** join/#utah lars-ut (n=me@70.103.228.158) |
| 19:34.23 | graphyx | beandog: Do you have an irc channel? |
| 19:34.38 | beandog | graphyx: nah |
| 19:35.02 | beandog | heh |
| 19:35.13 | beandog | graphyx: I guess we could, I haven't given it any thought. |
| 19:35.30 | beandog | sjansen: thats not necessary, we all know Gentoo already provides enough rope to hang yourself. |
| 19:36.02 | hans | he never said others would be doing the lynching |
| 19:38.23 | goozbach | ~lart maquis |
| 19:39.02 | Uncle_Jesse | ouch! |
| 19:41.18 | maquis | ibot: chanset #utah onjoin 1 |
| 19:41.34 | *** part/#utah maquis (n=maquis@joanna.zmonkey.org) |
| 19:41.37 | *** join/#utah maquis (n=maquis@joanna.zmonkey.org) |
| 19:43.17 | tensai | maquis: I don't think you have chanset privileges |
| 19:43.32 | maquis | a spam message with subject line "THIS IS NO HOAX", certainly makes me feel much better |
| 19:43.43 | maquis | tensai: well... he is still doing onjoins, so... that's good |
| 19:46.43 | Uncle_Jesse | lol - this is funny: http://www.maclive.net/sid/134 |
| 19:57.28 | *** join/#utah Hhhhh (n=cristoba@158.91.201.220) |
| 20:09.36 | maquis | "Google has developed its own digital-rights-management software to protect downloaded videos from piracy." <-- but... but... aren't they supposed to go by their slogan? |
| 20:12.11 | goozbach | "don't be evil... only when it doens't effect the bottom line" |
| 20:12.20 | maquis | *sob* |
| 20:13.32 | maquis | i trusted them... |
| 20:13.34 | maquis | :( |
| 20:13.53 | maquis | don't let it be true... |
| 20:15.35 | tensai | the love of money is the root of all evil... |
| 20:17.18 | sjansen | What's inherently evil about DRM? |
| 20:18.09 | scott | I was wondering precisely that |
| 20:18.36 | sjansen | I do not see DRM and reasonable behavior as mutually incompatible. |
| 20:19.18 | goozbach | evil is a point of view |
| 20:19.59 | sjansen | Rootkitting a users PC without warning and without permission: very evil. |
| 20:19.59 | maquis | sjansen: i haven't yet seen a non-evil DRM... but that's just me |
| 20:21.07 | sjansen | Being honest with users and clearly stating DRM enforced usage limits before purchase: not evil. |
| 20:21.15 | tensai | imho, all drm is evil for one simple reason: it makes copyrights last forever. all media should be copyable so that when (not if) the copyright expires, it can be freely copied. enforcement of a copyright shouldn't be tied to the medium. |
| 20:21.46 | scott | tensai: but if you agree to it when you buy it that's not evil |
| 20:22.24 | tensai | scott: if you agree to it, that's foolish. doesn't ameliorate the original sin. |
| 20:22.26 | scott | an automatic copyright for everything forever might be bad (not necessarily evil) but making it so my own content can't be copied forever is bad? |
| 20:22.35 | sjansen | Don't think of DRM as copyright. Think of it as contract. |
| 20:23.57 | maquis | here's another thing that bugs me about DRM |
| 20:24.05 | tensai | scott: doesn't matter who makes it, copyrights are not meant to last forever. anything that furthers that goal is, imnsho, bad. |
| 20:24.39 | sjansen | Don't think of DRM as copyright. Think of it as contract. |
| 20:24.41 | scott | like sjansen says, it's not a copyright |
| 20:24.55 | maquis | combined with the DMCA, it can prevent segments of the population who run unsupported OSs from legally accessing the content (at least as i understand it) |
| 20:25.17 | sjansen | maquis: Your fault for buying the DVD then. |
| 20:25.28 | tensai | sjansen: I'm not following your line of reasoning |
| 20:25.28 | maquis | sjansen: true... but stupid |
| 20:25.30 | scott | maquis: or for running the unsupported OS |
| 20:25.35 | scott | that it's inconvenient doesn't make it evil |
| 20:25.37 | sjansen | If you don't like it, don't buy the DVD, or actively work to change the DMCA. |
| 20:26.31 | beandog | I just dont invest in any media format that I cant easily make my own backup anyway. |
| 20:26.31 | maquis | sjansen: i've gotten into the habit of trying to check cds for drm before buying... but it's kinda difficult... it's not like they have a big sign that says "these cds protected by DRM" or anything |
| 20:26.45 | scott | tensai: the idea is, copyright is inherint (thanks to govt) and you don't have a choice, people's content is copyrighted no matter what. on the other hand, DRM only applies if you signa contract. |
| 20:26.55 | sjansen | All that DRM does is stipulate new usage rights. You are, in effect, agreeing to accept fewer rights than copyright extends. |
| 20:27.04 | spr | there is no music cd drm that works in linux. |
| 20:27.31 | tensai | but what happens when that copyright expires and their right to limit my uses expire? |
| 20:27.38 | spr | Until they make cd's non-redbook cd player compatable, we are safe. |
| 20:27.53 | sjansen | maquis: And there's where being evil comes in. Not making clear to the consumer what the terms of the DRM are is patently evil and should be illegal. |
| 20:28.39 | sjansen | tensai: The same thing as if you had signed a contract to rent the DVD, been forced to return it before the copyright expired, and the owner had destroyed every copy. |
| 20:28.42 | maquis | spr: even if the cd will work in linux, i still don't want to buy evil cds |
| 20:29.32 | sjansen | Now, you could breach the terms of the contract you agreed to and not return the DVD for destruction, but then you'd be in violations of the contract instead of copyright. |
| 20:30.25 | sjansen | Personally, I think the DMCA shouldn't have any effect on material whose copyright has expired. But I doubt we'll ever have to worry about that since copyright has basically become infinite. |
| 20:30.59 | sjansen | And once legislature wakes up and realizes that infinite copyright of all material is bad, they'll probably also wake up and realize that much of the DMCA is also bad. |
| 20:31.05 | maquis | sjansen: you mentioned actively working to change the dmca... how do you recommend doing that? |
| 20:31.26 | tensai | maquis: step 1. earn a billion dollars |
| 20:32.11 | goozbach | step 2 ??? |
| 20:32.20 | goozbach | step three: profit |
| 20:33.08 | hans | maquis: go around suing people of course |
| 20:33.15 | graphyx | I thought earning a billion dollars was profit. |
| 20:34.16 | sjansen | Write your representative. Fund the EFF. Boycott DRMd material. Write you editor. Educate your friends and family. Lead a protest. Run for office. Chain yourself to Orrin Hatch. Go on a hunger strike. Fire bomb govt. offices. Overthrow the govt. |
| 20:34.26 | sjansen | maquis: you pick how much you care and how far you want to go |
| 20:34.39 | tensai | sjansen: that skirts the issue of when I do own the physical medium, such as a DVD. I do own it. When the copyright expires I am allowed to make copies. The DRM on a DVD prevents that. That's evil. |
| 20:34.44 | sjansen | Your right to complain is directly proportional to how much effort you put into changing things. |
| 20:34.44 | graphyx | chain yourself to Orrin Hatch.. |
| 20:34.55 | graphyx | I don't know if I would want to do that one myself.. |
| 20:35.10 | hans | I'd rather impersonate Orrin Hatch |
| 20:35.19 | hans | Mission Impossible style |
| 20:35.40 | hans | (the old tv show, not the joke of a movie that was mi2 and probably will be mi3) |
| 20:35.56 | maquis | sjansen: i've tried writing my representatives... it's pointless |
| 20:36.06 | Tene | tensai: how is it "evil" if you know exactly what it is when you purchase it? |
| 20:36.14 | sjansen | tensai: Do you claim that DRM was added to the DVD after you purchased it? |
| 20:36.18 | maquis | i try to boycott DRMd material, but that involves knowing what material is DRMd, and sometimes that's not possible |
| 20:36.35 | hans | create a website that catalogs what's DRMd |
| 20:36.41 | hans | then it will be possible |
| 20:36.45 | maquis | i try to educate friends and family, but that doesn't work overly well, either |
| 20:37.00 | sjansen | tensai: Because unless you do, you bought what you bought complete with its limitations. Copyright doesn't override contract until you convince the govt. to change its laws to that effect. |
| 20:37.04 | hans | that is generally true regardless of the topic |
| 20:39.17 | lars-ut | "DMCA Title III modified section 117 of the copyright title so that those repairing computers could make certain temporary, limited copies while working on a computer." --http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMCA |
| 20:39.37 | lars-ut | Don't mind me, I'm just working on a computer. |
| 20:40.42 | graphyx | so lars-ut Basically if you can't make copies while working on the computer then it isn't in compliance with the DMCA? |
| 20:41.11 | sjansen | So, in summary my fellow #utahns: DRM != evil; not clearly advertising the presence of DRM == very, very evil. |
| 20:41.24 | lars-ut | naw - that's just a notable exception |
| 20:42.09 | lars-ut | which of the 2 blessed political groups was in power when the DMCA was passed? |
| 20:42.55 | tensai | sjansen: preventing people from copying your work once you have lost all rights to it is a morally repugnant act. that's why DRM is evil. legal, maybe. wrong, yes. |
| 20:43.38 | Tene | tensai: they're not preventing it, they're offering an uncopyable copy |
| 20:43.47 | lars-ut | I believe it was a Republican congress |
| 20:43.48 | lars-ut | under Pres. Clinton |
| 20:44.06 | lars-ut | "Passed on May 14, 1998 by a unanimous vote in the United States Senate" |
| 20:44.17 | Tene | it's not "I'm buying this with no restrictions." "Okay, but I'm going to throw you in jail if you copy it, even though you didn't agree to any restrictions when you purchased it." |
| 20:44.47 | lars-ut | Thank you Senator Hatch, for "representing" me. </sarcasm> |
| 20:44.52 | Tene | unless you believe that copying thigns is an inalienable human right that can't be given away through a contract. |
| 20:45.21 | Tene | That's like signing a NDA and then saying that it's evil to prevent people from talking about things. |
| 20:45.49 | Tene | you signed the NDA in exchange for the knowledge, and you agreed to the no-copying agreement in exchange for the music. |
| 20:45.55 | tensai | Tene: well, I believe the Constitution says that Congress can create laws granting copyrights "for a limited time". not inalieable, no. copyright is a compromise. |
| 20:47.18 | Tene | tensai: so how is a contract between two individuals or an individual and a company related to copyright any more than an NDA is related to the first amendment? |
| 20:48.20 | tensai | and if the constitution contained a clause saying that NDAs couldn't last forever, wouldn't you find it wrong to enforce them forever? |
| 20:48.58 | Tene | Sure, but the constitution says nothing about this. |
| 20:49.29 | Tene | Congress isn't making the no-copying law, the company or individual that you're puying the music from is offering you a contract. |
| 20:49.38 | Tene | buying, even |
| 20:52.00 | tensai | at some point in the future, when that copyright expires then that company's rights to enforce the copyright are gone. basically, they've lost control and have no right to dole out permissions by contract or otherwise. |
| 20:52.31 | tensai | but despite that, the drm lives on and continues to enforce their contract and copyright |
| 20:53.44 | Tene | they're not enforcing the copyright, though... |
| 20:54.23 | Tene | It's like if I make pies, but I refuse to sell the pie to anyone who won't sign a contract stating that they won't share the pie with others. |
| 20:54.59 | Tene | Or is that wrong? |
| 20:55.09 | tensai | exactly. your contract is unenforceable due to the doctrine of first sale. |
| 20:55.19 | Tene | Hmm... |
| 20:56.02 | Tene | So then how does an NDA work? Is it simply "If you disclose this information, we will never work with you again."? |
| 20:56.07 | tensai | book publishers tried to force book sellers to maintain a minimum price. courts decided they had lost all interest in the book when they sold it and could therefore not enforce restrictions on what the seller did. |
| 20:56.25 | tensai | because information is different that tangible goods |
| 21:00.11 | tensai | IANAL, so I'm not commenting on exactly what's legal and what isn't. my position is that designing a system to prevent a work from ever being copied flies in the face of the intent of copyright, and is thus unethical. |
| 21:02.55 | hans | ~sign maquis |
| 21:03.09 | Tene | 'kay |
| 21:03.38 | hans | maquis: you back in school already? |
| 21:18.12 | *** join/#utah amcnabb (n=amcnabb@128.187.175.186) |
| 21:20.14 | Hhhhh | tensai, I gotta say, I agree with copyrights buts I do believe they should have an expiration date and I believe the copyright period is too long |
| 21:20.23 | Hhhhh | who would want software that is like 72 yrs old? ;) |
| 21:20.36 | *** join/#utah SpecialZ (n=Sco--@128.187.145.78) |
| 21:20.56 | Hhhhh | so I tend to agree with what you said |
| 21:23.00 | sjansen | Hhhhh: Are you sure? tensai is playing the ethics card. Are you agree with his ethics, or do you just want freebie software? Ethics and the good of society are neither parallel nor orthogonal. |
| 21:23.54 | Hhhhh | huh? I think it doesn't make sense to have software copyrights for 72 years, I didn't say anything about freebie |
| 21:23.58 | Hhhhh | and I agree with those ethics |
| 21:24.13 | Hhhhh | now I'm very strict about keeping and enforcing copyrights while they're valid |
| 21:24.18 | *** join/#utah SpecialZ (n=Sco--@128.187.145.78) |
| 21:24.31 | Hhhhh | so I've no problem with Metallica suing some little girl's rear |
| 21:26.16 | Hhhhh | Also, I don't see a terrible disjunction between ethics and the good of society, I think the problem is that the good of society is hard to define and some people want the definition to remain as fuzzy and muddy as possible |
| 21:27.51 | sjansen | I didn't claim a disjunction. Ethics limits what can be done "for the good of society", but it doesn't always define how to decide. |
| 21:28.18 | sjansen | Killing sick people to keep down health care costs: unethical. |
| 21:28.42 | sjansen | Forcing people to give away the fruits of their labor for free: unethical. |
| 21:28.50 | Hhhhh | now, who said that helps the good of society? if you define |
| 21:29.09 | sjansen | Allowing people to give away the fruits of their labor: ethical. |
| 21:29.14 | Hhhhh | if you define the good of society in terms of money, then that example might hold water |
| 21:29.45 | goozbach | stealing your employer's bandwidth on your day off: unethical :) |
| 21:29.52 | sjansen | Forcing people to give away the fruits of their labor in recognition of the probable contribution they recieved from past workers: debateable. |
| 21:29.59 | Hhhhh | also, I don't think forcing people to give the fruits of their labor (other than taxes) is for the good of society either |
| 21:30.19 | Hhhhh | goozbach, lol |
| 21:30.32 | SpecialZ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:30.52 | goozbach | forcing me to hold off my questions until you are 'no longer on vacation': unethical |
| 21:30.59 | SpecialZ | And there is little guarantee that much of it will reach that point. |
| 21:32.20 | sjansen | Money is a red herring. |
| 21:32.57 | sjansen | Hhhhh: Expiring copyright is forcing people give the fruits of their labor for free. |
| 21:33.21 | Hhhhh | sjansen, after they're dead? |
| 21:33.30 | Hhhhh | kindof hard to commit a crime against dead people |
| 21:33.37 | sjansen | No it isn't. |
| 21:34.07 | sjansen | Unless you think that its okay to take a childs inheritance because the parent has died. |
| 21:34.10 | Hhhhh | I would ask "how?", but I'm busy learning DirectX |
| 21:34.18 | Bradipo | Hhhhh: If they die, they may have their rights transferred to their progeny. |
| 21:34.21 | Hhhhh | then you're stealing from the child |
| 21:34.24 | sjansen | Of you think its okay for a trust fund to start doing as it pleases because the benefactor dies. |
| 21:34.26 | goozbach | and what about sonny bono's decendandants? |
| 21:34.37 | Hhhhh | Bradipo, then they'd be stealing from their progenie |
| 21:34.53 | goozbach | shouldn't they be able to live off thier father |
| 21:34.54 | goozbach | ? |
| 21:35.00 | Hhhhh | sjansen, nope, but the deceased people would have a hard time coming back from the tumb to sue them |
| 21:35.12 | Bradipo | Hhhhh: So you're arguing that because it isn't ``stealing from the dead man'' that it is right? |
| 21:35.14 | sjansen | Again, that's beside the point. |
| 21:35.48 | sjansen | The fact is that ownership is widely recognized as transferrable. Why should land be different from a books or software? |
| 21:35.49 | Hhhhh | and don't try to mud up the issue, I'm not talking about inhertiances. Stealing inheritance is stealing fomr the people who the inheritance is supposed to go to, not from the "dead people" |
| 21:36.09 | tensai | copyright's justification is to encourage an author to produce further works. once they're dead, that's pretty much impossible. |
| 21:36.09 | Hhhhh | Bradipo, SO, (USING YOUR SAME TONE), NO |
| 21:36.15 | Hhhhh | sorry for caps |
| 21:36.19 | sjansen | If I die, should the deed on my home automatically expire so that my family or friends have to turn it into a public space? |
| 21:36.34 | Hhhhh | sjansen, I didn't know you had a copyright on your house |
| 21:36.41 | Hhhhh | that must be a fantastic house |
| 21:36.43 | Bradipo | sjansen: Yes, I want your luxurious home and extravagant grounds... |
| 21:36.48 | Hhhhh | apple, oranges |
| 21:36.49 | Bradipo | That is for the good of my society. ;-) |
| 21:37.05 | sjansen | Hhhhh: You're tryin to ignore the issue. |
| 21:37.08 | Hhhhh | that's what I meant when I said some people want the definition of goof of society to remain murky |
| 21:37.13 | goozbach | eminant domain? |
| 21:37.25 | fozzmoo | Eminent domain. |
| 21:37.26 | Bradipo | Eminent domain is thievery. |
| 21:37.27 | SpecialZ | Copyright is not the same thing as private property |
| 21:37.28 | fozzmoo | It sucks big time. |
| 21:37.29 | Hhhhh | no, I was talking about copyrights, not inheritances |
| 21:38.00 | sjansen | If I worked to build a home, the home is mine. If I worked to write a book, the book is mine. |
| 21:38.02 | SpecialZ | Copyright implies that the good can be copied with little effort |
| 21:38.10 | goozbach | eminent domain is "for the good of society" |
| 21:38.17 | SpecialZ | private property is a limited physical good. |
| 21:38.18 | tensai | SpecialZ: exactly. don't assume facts about one apply to the other. |
| 21:38.20 | sjansen | Why should my children be able to inherit the home but not the book? |
| 21:38.26 | Bradipo | Hhhhh: Your point about copyrights was that it is ok for them to expire and for someone else to benefit, simply because they once belonged to a dead man who can no longer defend them? |
| 21:38.47 | Bradipo | goozbach: But what about my good? |
| 21:38.56 | Bradipo | Doesn't man come before the society? |
| 21:38.57 | sjansen | SpecialZ: That doesn't change the fact that significant work into the creation of the easily copied material. |
| 21:38.57 | SpecialZ | When you download music illegally, you are infringing copyright, not stealing, and the Supreme court has upheld this a couple of times. |
| 21:38.59 | goozbach | I'm happy that only brian herbert has been able to contiune the Dune seires |
| 21:39.00 | Hhhhh | Bradipo, exactly, I'm all for robbing people who can't defend themselves. That pretty much summarizes exactly what I mean |
| 21:39.10 | Hhhhh | that includes candy from toddlers |
| 21:39.15 | sjansen | Should stealing be legal just because its easy? So I should be able to rob homes but not banks? |
| 21:39.27 | Hhhhh | don't try to put words in my mouth, no need to gay up the conversation |
| 21:39.32 | Bradipo | sjansen: Or should stealing be legal because it is for the ``good of the society?'' |
| 21:39.40 | Hhhhh | especially if it's stuff that's so irrelevant |
| 21:39.47 | Bradipo | Hhhhh: I wasn't trying to put words, just trying to clarify. |
| 21:39.49 | SpecialZ | I didn't say it was right or should be legal. |
| 21:40.23 | SpecialZ | The point of these arguments is fixing copyright laws so that they benefit creators. and society as well |
| 21:40.29 | Hhhhh | Bradipo, I refuse to play along when people make comments with ill intention and then pretend that "it wasn't so" |
| 21:40.57 | Hhhhh | sorry, you were trolling, and I call bluffs on people trolling |
| 21:41.05 | sjansen | How is the work that goes into building a house different from the work that goes into writing a book? Either way I put in alot of effort. |
| 21:41.24 | sjansen | It does not automatically follow that because the book can be easily copied it should be copied. |
| 21:41.28 | Hhhhh | sjansen, I dunno, ask the Founding Fathers |
| 21:41.42 | Hhhhh | or propose an ammendment to the Constitution |
| 21:41.54 | Bradipo | Hhhhh: sjansen was talking about forcing others to give up their hard earned fruits of labor in the form of expiring copyrights, you were talking about how can you commit a crime against a dead man (I assume you meant the crime of stealing his hard earned fruits of labor). |
| 21:41.54 | sjansen | Hhhhh: That's hardly an argument. If you don't understand the underlying reasons, you have no right to suggest how things should be changed. |
| 21:41.56 | tensai | sjansen: because the ideas you put into words are not physical objects |
| 21:42.10 | fozzmoo | Ideas don't last forever. |
| 21:42.16 | fozzmoo | Eventually we all succumb to dementia. |
| 21:42.23 | Hhhhh | Bradipo, I did not suggest copyrights had to do with stealing from dead people, sjansen did |
| 21:42.40 | Hhhhh | sjansen, well, explain then and maybe you'll earn your right then |
| 21:42.53 | Hhhhh | man |
| 21:43.11 | Bradipo | Hhhhh: You said, ``Kind of hard to commit a crime against dead people.'' |
| 21:43.29 | Hhhhh | I don't like it when people make ridiculous, unrelated comments to what's being talked about |
| 21:43.35 | Hhhhh | Bradipo, scroll back a little further |
| 21:43.39 | SpecialZ | pushing copyrights back to the 28 years of 1975 wouldn't hurt any active or retired creator |
| 21:43.51 | Hhhhh | what do inheritances have to do with copyrights? |
| 21:44.07 | sjansen | Why is a home differnt from a book? |
| 21:44.21 | sjansen | Homes and books require labor to create. |
| 21:44.24 | Bradipo | Hhhhh: Are you inferring that copyrights cannot be inherited by children? |
| 21:44.28 | *** join/#utah mheath (n=mheath@c-24-2-81-30.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 21:44.38 | Hhhhh | because a home has intrinsic value, and a book only has intrinsic value equivalent to the amount of paper in it (plus bookbinding) |
| 21:44.41 | dilvie | Hi. =) |
| 21:44.54 | Hhhhh | Bradipo, I am not |
| 21:44.59 | dilvie | For electronic music fans: http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=53452 |
| 21:45.01 | brac | [Internet Archive Forums: View Post] |
| 21:45.06 | Hhhhh | Bradipo, I don't understand why you ask though |
| 21:45.12 | Hhhhh | Bradipo, mind elaborating? |
| 21:45.20 | sjansen | Hhhhh: You're going to have to expand on that. It's not a complete argument yet. |
| 21:45.22 | Bradipo | Hhhhh: Because you asked what do inheritances have to do with copyrights. |
| 21:45.32 | SpecialZ | copyright should be inheritable since the heirs were depending on the producer for their subsistence |
| 21:45.34 | dilvie | Come hang out with me and get some free music Jan. 14th. =) |
| 21:45.48 | Hhhhh | Bradipo, it's like me saying "I like red", and then you saying "are you implying all other colors are not as important?" |
| 21:46.11 | dilvie | SpecialZ: I am a musician, and I support file sharing. =) |
| 21:46.16 | sjansen | (Note: I don't think that copyright should be infinite. But neither ethics nor pursuit of the good of society immediate lead to the conclusion that copyright must expire. Whis is the root of this whole discussion.) |
| 21:46.40 | Hhhhh | skru trollish aclaration requests, getting rid of them would allevaite Freenode of a lot of unnecessary bandwidth waSTE |
| 21:46.49 | Hhhhh | nuff said |
| 21:47.11 | SpecialZ | dilvie, that's your choice as a musician and I'm glad people produce for the common good. |
| 21:47.26 | dilvie | For musicians making a name for themselves, the more people who get hold of the music, the better it is for the musician's career. Musicians who are already a household name won't be hurt by a little filesharing. |
| 21:47.53 | dilvie | In the music industry, musicians earn most of their living through live events. |
| 21:47.55 | goozbach | speaking of good music... |
| 21:48.17 | goozbach | Lemon Demon is a good listen for anyone who's into TMBG or Info. Society |
| 21:48.32 | dilvie | goozbach: URL? |
| 21:48.36 | goozbach | http://www.eviltrailmix.com/lemondemon/ |
| 21:48.37 | brac | [Lemon Demon] |
| 21:48.43 | sjansen | Musicians should be allowed to share their work product. It does not follow that they should be forced to share their work product. |
| 21:48.58 | goozbach | they've got a large amount of their music avalibal for download |
| 21:49.10 | levi | Oh, geez, I really need to learn to stop visiting Vorlath's blog. |
| 21:49.22 | goozbach | I downloaded ~12 mp3's the other day |
| 21:49.25 | goozbach | like the music |
| 21:49.30 | goozbach | and guess what... |
| 21:49.40 | goozbach | I bought both the cds today |
| 21:50.06 | sjansen | Walmart won't be hurt by me stealing some candy, or using their households section as my bedroom. |
| 21:50.43 | amcnabb | Does anyone know if Linode is planning on switching to Xen anytime soon or if there's a virtual hosting company that gives you your own virtual machine with Xen? |
| 21:50.50 | tensai | sjansen: stop equating real property to intellectual property. they are not equal and can't be treated the same. |
| 21:51.03 | sjansen | levi: Yes, you do. Unless you enjoy picking a fight with him. |
| 21:51.05 | SpecialZ | The constitution sets forth copyright as existing to benefit the common good by limiting copying to encourage people to produce. Permanent copyright does this little better than a 10 year copyright. |
| 21:51.46 | levi | sjansen: Oh, I'm not leaving comments anymore. I just look and shake my head. |
| 21:51.49 | sjansen | amcnabb: Linode is planning on switching now that PAE is available in Xen 3.0, but waiting for things to prove stable enough. |
| 21:51.55 | levi | sjansen: He has example code snippets now. |
| 21:52.12 | levi | sjansen: In a huge, long, rambly entry that I couldn't be bothered to read all of. |
| 21:52.31 | sjansen | amcnabb: Supposedly, most of the infrastructure is already in place. A beta program was run for a bit on Xen 2.0, but couldn't be extended to all clients because of a lack of PAE. |
| 21:53.00 | goozbach | amcnabb: goozbach is offering a virutal server with XEN |
| 21:53.00 | sjansen | If you dig xenode.com, you will find that it is owned by the same people as linode.com |
| 21:53.38 | goozbach | neverblock.com |
| 21:54.26 | sjansen | SpecialZ: Sure it does. For example, the UK has granted infinite copyright to Alice in Wonderland because income from its sale goes to an orphanage. |
| 21:55.59 | amcnabb | sjansen and goozbach: thanks a ton for the info. |
| 21:56.13 | sjansen | tensai: There's a couple words I hate: "intellectual property". |
| 21:56.16 | dilvie | Copyright laws exists to encourage innovation, not to encourage permanent monopolies on ideas. |
| 21:56.35 | sjansen | Copyright has nothing to do with ideas. Patents deal with ideas. |
| 21:56.47 | SpecialZ | that's an exception which shouldn't be used to define the rule. For every Alice in Wonderland, there are hundreds of songs on itunes from before 1978 which are enriching record companies and encouraging no creations whatsoever. |
| 21:56.51 | hans | sjansen: now how can you hate IP and apologize for the idea of IP at the same time? I don't get it? |
| 21:56.55 | dilvie | Effectively permanent copyrights cause all sorts of nasty consequences, not the least of which are orphaned works |
| 21:56.58 | tensai | sjansen: I agree. it was just nice for a comparison. not using it makes your arguments even worse. |
| 21:57.24 | levi | hans: You were expecting sjansen to be consistent? |
| 21:57.34 | sjansen | hans: Because too many people on our side don't spend any time thinking about whether or not they might be partly wrong too. |
| 21:57.46 | dilvie | I have many friends in the music industry who have effectively lost control of their work product, because they assigned copyrights to record labels who have since gone out of business, or burried the work in a back-catalog with no intention of re-issuing the work. |
| 21:58.05 | SpecialZ | If legislative bodies wish to make specific exceptions for charitable organizations, they can take that risk in the integrity of law. |
| 21:58.10 | dilvie | Our current copyright laws rob us of a whole lot of great creative material. |
| 21:58.14 | sjansen | If opponenets of infinite copyright are always going to respond with "XYZ is evil and therefore wrong", we don't deserve to ever change anything. |
| 21:58.19 | hans | sjansen: you're free to be the devil's advocate, but really you don't know any more than the people you're correcting |
| 21:59.01 | hans | I'm squarely in line with what dilvie has said. Was copyright in the constitution a mistake? I don't know. Is it currently a mistake? I think so. |
| 21:59.27 | dilvie | I don't think copyright is all bad -- I just think it's in need of some re-thinking. |
| 21:59.50 | hans | but what is really wrong is that I'm hungry. where's the food? |
| 21:59.57 | SpecialZ | I don't think copyright as it existed in the past was a mistake. Current IP thought, procedures and laws are however. |
| 22:00.12 | dilvie | specialz: I agree. |
| 22:00.18 | sjansen | dilvie: The answer lies in chaning how music is distributed, not in changing whether or not people should feel an automatic right to download whatever they want. |
| 22:00.41 | dilvie | sjansen: I agree with that, as well. |
| 22:01.17 | sjansen | I agree completely with sharing music as long as it is done under the terms the musician outlines. Saying things like " Musicians who are already a household name won't be hurt by a little filesharing." is dangerous. It makes it sound like we think stealing is okay. |
| 22:01.40 | SpecialZ | sjansen, that misconception about taking whatever you want existed between 1997 and 2002. Not exactly long enough for the world to completley change. |
| 22:01.50 | hans | dilvie: do you ever do IRC seminars on making music for wannabe electronic musicians? :-) |
| 22:02.10 | dilvie | I really like what creative commons has done for music. There is a huge collection of CC licensed material, and it's growing every day. I think that as CC-friendly musicians find success, the trend will grow, and some of the orphaned works problem will start to go away, without the need to change copyright law... |
| 22:02.42 | dilvie | In the mean-time, a lot of damage has already been done, and there's a lot of orphaned IP out there in need of rescue. |
| 22:02.46 | hans | I think CC is a snowball of hope quickly growing. Let's hope the avalanche reaches us soon |
| 22:02.47 | *** join/#utah bonez39 (n=bonez@drjones.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 22:03.22 | SpecialZ | If the law is supposed to benefit creation, they need to fix the balance by making it less rewarding for creators to hand their copyright over to someone else. |
| 22:03.32 | levi | sjansen: Makes it sound to whom like we think stealing is okay? |
| 22:03.38 | sjansen | Personally, I like the arguments Lessig has made in favor of remixing. So far as I'm aware, though, he's always talked about creating something new our of something that already existed, not just giving away another artists music without permission. |
| 22:03.49 | dilvie | hans: I don't, but I might be willing to offer some advice. |
| 22:04.07 | SpecialZ | derivative works is a very fuzzy concept these days. |
| 22:04.21 | sjansen | levi: For starters, to legislatures who hardly understand all of the issues well enough to see the nuances that allow the statement to be interpreted multiple ways. |
| 22:04.51 | hans | dilvie: usually I just have no idea where to start. this is not unique to EM though |
| 22:05.05 | levi | OK, who here is secretly a legislator? |
| 22:05.14 | dilvie | hans: this might sound funny, but start with a real instrument. =) |
| 22:05.19 | hans | I'm fairly proficient as a performer, but generally n00b as a composer |
| 22:05.24 | SpecialZ | I think sampling that isn't libelous should be fine. |
| 22:05.50 | SpecialZ | I wish we had a legislator here. They just do whatever Hollywood says these days. |
| 22:06.03 | sjansen | I think we'd be much better off focusing on things that are clearly true and much easier to understand. Artists comment on society by remixing. They always have and should still be able to. |
| 22:06.16 | levi | sjansen: Attacking a comment here because it might be misinterpreted by a legislator seems a little misguided. |
| 22:06.37 | levi | We all choose words (or should, at least) based on our audience. |
| 22:06.44 | dilvie | hans: you may want to start by doing some improv exercises -- look at a clock, and use the numbers as note names, where 1 = a, 2 = b, 3 = c and so on. Pick a scale, and use the note numbers to piece together a melody.. then work on accompaniment (chords) and variations. =) |
| 22:07.38 | dilvie | You may want 0 = a, though. ;) |
| 22:07.39 | dilvie | eheh |
| 22:08.04 | dilvie | adapt the scheme to fit any scale |
| 22:08.21 | dilvie | ie, C: 0 = C |
| 22:08.23 | dilvie | etc.. |
| 22:09.04 | dilvie | I'm not a legislator, but I've run for state office. |
| 22:09.08 | dilvie | and I intend to run again. |
| 22:09.28 | sjansen | levi: Fine, I'll shut up. |
| 22:09.30 | dilvie | I support Pete Ashdown's campaign. |
| 22:11.01 | levi | sjansen: You don't have to shut up, but it would be nice to debate within the current context unless you explicitly introduce another one. Of course, at that point, you would probably not have a disagreement with whomever you were disagreeing with. |
| 22:11.27 | dilvie | My primary reason for supporting Pete Ashdown's campaign is that I'd like to see Hatch leave his position. I am vehemently opposed to Hatch's ideas on IP strategies. |
| 22:12.28 | hans | ah, you mean a digital clock |
| 22:12.32 | hans | the light goes on |
| 22:12.42 | dilvie | I think that the DMCA has emboldened corporate lawyers into thinking that the law means whatever they want it to mean -- primarily, a tool to stifle competition, and silence detractors. |
| 22:13.27 | dilvie | hans: yes.. that's just an excercize to get the creative juices flowing. Eventually, coming up with new melodies and chord ideas will become second nature. |
| 22:13.38 | dilvie | hans: practice is the key, as usual, where music is concerned. =) |
| 22:14.12 | hans | naturally. I'm also interested in jazz, I suppose learning improv in the context of jazz would be just as helpful? |
| 22:14.39 | tensai | dilvie: a song popped up on my playlist the other day. I thought "boy, that's a nice song". checked and wouldn't you know it? dilvie. |
| 22:15.03 | hans | btw, I'm pretty good at wrangling linux for audio and getting those programs to work, so if you ever need help with that... |
| 22:15.38 | dilvie | Tensai: cool. =) |
| 22:15.54 | dilvie | hans: yes, it might. =) |
| 22:16.44 | dilvie | hans: I use the tools that help my creative process most, and those tools, unfortunately, are not available on linux, yet. ); |
| 22:16.56 | hans | which ones do you use? |
| 22:17.17 | dilvie | Renoise, Soundforge, WaveLab, and CubaseVST. |
| 22:17.36 | dilvie | Alas, Psycle (open source) and Audacity (also open source) are not quite there, yet. |
| 22:17.41 | hans | heh. I've never heard of any of them. |
| 22:17.53 | hans | well, audacity I have |
| 22:17.57 | dilvie | CubaseVST is now called Cubase SX |
| 22:18.11 | dilvie | Psycle and Renoise are trackers (remember .mods?) |
| 22:18.21 | hans | yeah |
| 22:18.36 | hans | I'm familiar with the tracker concept |
| 22:18.50 | dilvie | Soundforge and Wavelab are wave editors, much like Audacity, but many orders of magnitude more mature. |
| 22:19.17 | dilvie | Cubase is an integrated multi-track recorder / MIDI sequencer. |
| 22:19.30 | hans | do you use a wave editor extensively in the music creation phase, then? |
| 22:19.33 | SpecialZ | dilvie, where can I find your music? |
| 22:19.38 | dilvie | hans: yes. |
| 22:19.56 | hans | cool, in what way? |
| 22:20.06 | dilvie | SpecialZ: You can find a lot of my old music here: http://www.dilvie.com/ |
| 22:20.55 | SpecialZ | yeah, I just found it on your whois. |
| 22:21.26 | dilvie | hans: well, a good analogy might be how a painter uses his palette and brushes to prepare his colors and textures prior to laying the strokes on the painting. |
| 22:22.02 | hans | makes sense. then do you apply them in the multitrack editor, or somehow sequenced? |
| 22:22.50 | goozbach | I'm not a pirate! |
| 22:23.05 | goozbach | I prefer to be call a "Buccaneer Americian" |
| 22:23.45 | dilvie | My favorite tracks are the NIN remix, Tattoo, Dance With Me, East of the Sun, and Suspend the Descent. Most of the rest are hit or miss, and some of them were composed on very poor audio devices, so the mixes are a bit on the raw side. |
| 22:24.17 | hans | speaking of, what is the last word in the phrase in Dance With Me? |
| 22:24.49 | hans | I like the adventures of the purple sine quite a bit, and the Carol of the Bells |
| 22:24.53 | dilvie | hans: I use Renoise (a modern tracker), primarily. I use Cubase primarily for recording accoustic instruments, or when I want better human expression in my MIDI sequences than a tracker allows. |
| 22:25.22 | dilvie | hans: "dance with me - sexy girls rock" |
| 22:25.27 | dilvie | sexy chicks, actually |
| 22:25.46 | hans | cool |
| 22:26.07 | hans | when you use the sequencer do you just go free then, or do you still go with a metronome? |
| 22:26.27 | dilvie | second to the NIN remix, Dance With Me is probably the most famous track. |
| 22:27.22 | tensai | dilvie: that song the other day was Suspend the Descent |
| 22:27.32 | dilvie | hans: free ... when I just hit record in the sequencer, the whole point is to get loose, human timing. I still play along with some music, so I can hear where the beats need to fall, but I don't make any special effort to play exactly in time with them. ;) |
| 22:27.38 | *** join/#utah mrpull (n=misterpu@xmjake.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 22:28.10 | scott | I don't know how well known it is (cause I just heard of it), but the Little Gray Book podcast is hillarious |
| 22:28.35 | hans | cool. I've given up on metronome recording in sequencers, but sometimes I feel a pang of guilt about that 120bpm 4/4 at the beginning. :) |
| 22:28.54 | dilvie | haha |
| 22:29.27 | dilvie | I wouldn't feel guilty. If you like fre-form music, and you don't care about a robotic beat, go with it. |
| 22:30.06 | dilvie | You should probably try to develop your skill so that you *can* do robotic timing if you need to (just to be well-rounded), but your music is yours -- do what your heart tells you to do. |
| 22:30.34 | hans | the metronome and I are old "friends" |
| 22:30.42 | hans | kind of like sjansen and I ;-) |
| 22:30.48 | dilvie | Oh my. |
| 22:30.58 | levi | Heh. |
| 22:31.03 | sjansen | ~fart hans |
| 22:31.06 | ibot | ACTION farts in hans's general direction |
| 22:31.24 | dilvie | I just noticed that the tracks on the web page are um... really bad rips. |
| 22:31.28 | hans | I can play to a metronome, but I generally don't like metronomic music. keep in mind that I'm generally recording keyboard works |
| 22:31.29 | dilvie | I need to replace them. =) |
| 22:31.53 | hans | i.e. not ensemble |
| 22:32.17 | dilvie | I should release a best of album with the remastered tracks. |
| 22:32.29 | hans | no, I do like a lot of metronomic music. I don't like _playing_ metronomically, I guess. :) |
| 22:32.45 | dilvie | hans: I hear you. |
| 22:32.53 | dilvie | My piano compositions are NOT FOR METRONOME |
| 22:32.54 | dilvie | =) |
| 22:32.56 | dilvie | strictly. |
| 22:33.17 | dilvie | I do lots of rhythm changes, and use tempo as an expression tool |
| 22:33.44 | dilvie | I love metric modulation (as you can probably hear in Tattoo) |
| 22:35.02 | levi | I like your NIN remix, but Trent Reznor really needs a new shtick. |
| 22:35.13 | dilvie | Levi: I agree. =) |
| 22:35.39 | dilvie | I didn't like the original song. I really worked hard to make the remix something I'd be proud to put my name to. |
| 22:36.11 | levi | The music is good, it's just the solipsistic lyrics that are annoying. |
| 22:37.04 | dilvie | Yeah, I tried to minimize the impact of some of the worst phrases, using the song structure and dynamic tension to cover some of the worst vocal phrases |
| 22:37.13 | dilvie | and I left some of the lyrics out, entirely. |
| 22:37.14 | levi | (your music, that is... I don't recall the original tune) |
| 22:37.54 | dilvie | Several radio station managers have told me they think of my remix as the definitive version. |
| 22:38.29 | dilvie | well, a couple have said something along those lines, most of the others said, "I like your version better" |
| 22:38.31 | dilvie | ehehe |
| 22:38.34 | levi | Mr. Reznor have anything to say about it? ;) |
| 22:38.40 | dilvie | mission accomplished. =) |
| 22:38.50 | dilvie | No, I haven't heard from him, but he's been very busy touring. |
| 22:38.57 | dilvie | so that's no surprise. |
| 22:39.02 | levi | Ahh, yeah. |
| 22:39.31 | levi | I don't suppose he'll be coming to SLC again, eh? |
| 22:39.35 | dilvie | when musicians go on tour, I pretty much count on not hearing from them for months at a time. |
| 22:39.47 | dilvie | I'm not sure. I haven't checked the tour dates for a few months. |
| 22:41.11 | levi | I guess he was here in October. |
| 22:41.18 | dilvie | Yep. |
| 22:41.34 | levi | I was just recalling the fuss caused by his appearance with Marylin Manson in '94. |
| 22:46.39 | dilvie | I think that's mostly forgotten. |
| 22:51.25 | maquis | dilvie: do you have a synthesizer/keyboard you use for this? |
| 22:52.11 | dilvie | maquis: Just for MIDI control, these days.. I use a lot of VST plugins now. |
| 22:52.19 | dilvie | maquis: I have a DX7. |
| 22:52.26 | hans | mmmm, fun |
| 22:52.31 | dilvie | I sold a bunch of other gear when I started making heavier use of VSTs |
| 22:52.32 | hans | if you ever want to get rid of that... |
| 22:52.46 | maquis | what are VST plugins? (sorry... i don't know much about this, but i'm interested) |
| 22:52.53 | dilvie | I still have a Sequential Circuits Multi-track (old analog synth), but I never use it. |
| 22:53.24 | dilvie | vst plugins are virtual machines (software) that does what hardware used to do. Most modern sound software supports the VST plugin specification. |
| 22:53.55 | dilvie | There's a plugin called FM7 that emulates the DX7 synthesis architecture -- it honestly sounds better than the real thing (which is on my desk, right in front of me) |
| 22:53.56 | maquis | so, you use the keyboard to put the notes into the computer, and then use the vst to do everything else? |
| 22:55.24 | dilvie | yeah, pretty much. The VSTs make the actual sounds.. the kb just tells the computer which notes to play, for how long, and the velocity of the key strike (which determines intensity) |
| 22:55.33 | maquis | mmk |
| 22:55.41 | maquis | that sounds useful... |
| 22:56.23 | hans | maquis: that's basically the notion of softsynth that I was talknig about the other day |
| 22:56.57 | dilvie | yeah, it's great -- particularly because I live in a small duplex |
| 22:57.00 | maquis | hans: right... softsynth was a way to get the notes in, right? |
| 22:57.13 | dilvie | my little back-room studio is too small for mountains of gear... it's all in the computer, now. |
| 22:57.14 | dilvie | =) |
| 22:57.26 | dilvie | the softsynths are the VST plugins |
| 22:57.30 | maquis | oh... |
| 22:57.30 | maquis | right |
| 22:57.35 | dilvie | they make the sounds |
| 22:57.39 | maquis | the thing i need is a way to get the notes in |
| 22:57.59 | maquis | preferably not too expensive |
| 23:01.47 | dilvie | yeah, there are lots of little MIDI controllers that can handle that.. the right one will depend on how you want to use it. |
| 23:01.58 | dilvie | there are small ones that only cover a couple octaves |
| 23:02.23 | dilvie | 76 key synths, like my DX7, which span about 5 octaves |
| 23:02.35 | maquis | i have a non-midi keyboard back at home, but i kept going off the bottom when trying to play... |
| 23:02.43 | dilvie | and there are 88 key controllers (same as a piano) |
| 23:03.04 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wade@38.119.178.10) |
| 23:03.20 | dilvie | if you're from a piano background, you may want to invest in an 88-key controller. |
| 23:03.20 | hans | mine is 61 - same as an organ, so it works ok for me |
| 23:03.39 | dilvie | Yamaha makes one for about $700... the Yamaha P60. |
| 23:04.05 | maquis | http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00007JRBM/qid=1136588370/sr=8-2/ref=pd_bbs_2/103-8058993-6177435?v=glance&n=507846 <-- wonder if this would work under linux.... |
| 23:04.14 | hans | and be sure, if you're playing to your inner pianist, to get one that has weighted keys |
| 23:04.52 | hans | probably will, but that's no keyboard |
| 23:05.03 | dilvie | oh, looks like the DX7 is 61 keys, as well. =) |
| 23:05.11 | dilvie | It's a bit too small for me |
| 23:05.34 | maquis | hans: no... but i'll need a midi card, right? |
| 23:05.37 | maquis | or something like that |
| 23:05.49 | hans | my m-audio keyboard has usb and regular midi ports |
| 23:06.05 | hans | most consumer soundcards can do midi through the gameport, with a $20 cable |
| 23:06.20 | maquis | hmmm.. that's even better |
| 23:06.36 | hans | but really, most keyboards you might buy these days that are intended for computer use will have usb, and that's just easier |
| 23:06.38 | dilvie | I don't recommend gameport MIDI |
| 23:06.44 | dilvie | it tends to lack features and compatability |
| 23:07.06 | hans | http://midiman.com |
| 23:07.18 | hans | it's not the only brand, but browsing through their products will give you an idea of what's out there |
| 23:07.33 | maquis | http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0002FOPOU/sr=1-7/qid=1136588681/ref=sr_1_7/103-8058993-6177435?%5Fencoding=UTF8&n=11970041&s=musical-instruments&v=glance <-- does this look like a reasonable keyboard to stick on my wishlist/planning-to-buy-list? |
| 23:07.45 | sjansen | http://www.innergeek.us/geek-test.html |
| 23:07.47 | brac | [geeks love their inner geek.] |
| 23:08.01 | hans | this is the one I have |
| 23:08.04 | hans | http://midiman.com/products/en_us/Radium61-main.html |
| 23:08.06 | brac | [M-AUDIO - Radium61 - 61-Key USB MIDI Controller] |
| 23:08.18 | maquis | cool |
| 23:08.43 | dilvie | hans: that's only semi-weighted... not piano action.. for roughly the same price, you can get the Yamaha P60, which features almost identical action to their real grand pianos. |
| 23:08.59 | dilvie | ur, that was intended for Maquis |
| 23:09.00 | dilvie | =) |
| 23:09.09 | maquis | dilvie: mmk |
| 23:09.35 | hans | which is good if you're a longtime pianist |
| 23:09.52 | maquis | dilvie: i didn't see the yamaha on amazon :( |
| 23:10.26 | hans | maquis: of course if $700 is out of your current budget as it was mine, you can get a more modest controller (keyboard) for a little under $200 |
| 23:10.49 | hans | and also $700 will just be a flash in the pan, right? :) |
| 23:11.03 | jsmith | hans: if only |
| 23:11.04 | maquis | not quite... but easier... |
| 23:11.09 | hans | one day when I'm rich, I'm going to put me together a nice studio |
| 23:11.15 | dilvie | maquis: http://www.zzounds.com/item--YAMP60 |
| 23:11.28 | maquis | dilvie: cool |
| 23:14.08 | *** join/#utah spr (n=spr@c-24-10-236-93.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 23:17.13 | sjansen | Looks like I'm slightly better than 25% geek. |
| 23:17.28 | dilvie | maquis: The P60 is the only piano-action kb for less than $1,000 that I will recommend. |
| 23:19.04 | dilvie | Yamaha takes pride in creating the best action available, and, when it comes right down to it, action is now EVERYTHING in KB design, because you can get whatever sound you like out of softsynths and computer-based samplers. |
| 23:19.59 | dilvie | the action on the P60 is almost exactly the same as the action on a Yamaha grand piano. I've compared them side-by-side. The P60 has terrific action, and makes a pretty good practice piano, besides. =) |
| 23:20.40 | maquis | cool |
| 23:20.51 | maquis | i wonder if i could convince my parents to get me one...... |
| 23:20.51 | dilvie | the sounds are pretty good.. much like a real yamaha grand, minus all the lovely nuances you get from a real piano, of course. |
| 23:21.13 | maquis | i mean... i'll need a nice piano to practice on.... |
| 23:21.28 | dilvie | it is a nice piano to practice on. |
| 23:21.43 | dilvie | I have a real upright in my living room, but I still plan to own a P60, when I have better cash-flow. |
| 23:21.46 | dilvie | =) |
| 23:21.58 | maquis | :) |
| 23:22.29 | maquis | at home, my parents have a grand piano that i took lessons with... |
| 23:22.47 | maquis | i want to get something to play when i'm not around that |
| 23:22.48 | maquis | :) |
| 23:26.11 | *** part/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@65.89.234.66) |
| 23:30.03 | tensai | maquis: I bought a $99 casio keyboard at wally world for my wife. it sounded nothing like a grand piano, but was just fine for her. |
| 23:31.47 | Bradipo | maquis: Good luck finding something to match the quality of the grand. :-) |
| 23:32.20 | tensai | but good luck putting a grand in your dorm room |
| 23:32.41 | maquis | Bradipo: yeah... i know |
| 23:32.51 | maquis | tensai: haha |
| 23:32.56 | Bradipo | tensai: I would rather go to the piano labs. |
| 23:33.18 | tensai | Bradipo: you must not be as lazy as me :) |
| 23:33.28 | Bradipo | But if this is for a dorm room, then keyboard is really the only alternative. |
| 23:33.51 | tensai | how about an accordian? |
| 23:34.04 | Bradipo | tensai: Lazier, I would rather just listen to Rudolf Serkin on my stereo. :-) |
| 23:35.04 | tensai | Bradipo: touche |
| 23:39.40 | scott | Bradipo: piano labs in HFAC? |
| 23:40.04 | Bradipo | scott: Yeah, do they not exist? |
| 23:40.29 | Bradipo | Down in the basement level or wherever that was... |
| 23:40.36 | tensai | they did when I was there |
| 23:40.43 | Bradipo | I must admit it has been a long time since I was in the HFAC. |
| 23:40.51 | maquis | i took a piano class, but the keyboards we used *sucked* |
| 23:41.25 | scott | I've wondered if there were piano labs. do you have to sign up or just get lucky? |
| 23:43.49 | Bradipo | I don't recall seeing signup sheets, but then with most things artistic, it was probably a fairly chaotic procedure. :-) |
| 23:44.39 | amcnabb | How do you get to and into the piano labs? (I've never done it) |
| 23:46.06 | scott | maybe UUG should have it's next meeting in one of the piano labs... |
| 23:46.46 | tensai | scott: the rooms are pretty small. 3 people maybe |
| 23:48.35 | amcnabb | Do you have to be taking a class to go there? Do you have to schedule ahead of time? |
| 23:50.17 | maquis | amcnabb: the ones that the beginning piano classes use are only accessible from the outside (the side pointing toward the jkhb) |
| 23:50.33 | maquis | i think there might be pianos down in the practice rooms in the basement, though |
| 23:51.08 | maquis | i'd try those first --- the upstairs ones also have classes in them some days... |
| 23:51.35 | maquis | (and the upstairs ones have 8-10 keyboars in one room) |
| 23:51.46 | amcnabb | Do you reserve practice rooms? |
| 23:58.23 | maquis | dunno |
