| 00:11.28 | levi | maquis: He came to me asking for help writing a C program. He didn't have two clues to rub together. |
| 00:11.40 | maquis | levi: ah |
| 00:12.07 | levi | maquis: I.e., he had no idea how to think about writing a program, in C or any other language. |
| 00:12.35 | maquis | ah |
| 00:12.45 | maquis | that would certainly make things hard |
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| 00:56.12 | Special1 | ~lart comcast |
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| 01:15.46 | hans | http://charlespetzold.com/etc/DoesVisualStudioRotTheMind.html |
| 01:15.49 | brac | [ |
| 01:15.49 | brac | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:15.49 | brac | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:17.11 | xbmodder_lappy | yeah |
| 01:17.32 | xbmodder_lappy | hans, can I have brac's source? |
| 01:17.40 | ScytheBlade1 | brac really needs fixing to strip newlines from the title |
| 01:18.28 | hans | -version |
| 01:18.28 | brac | I'm a v. 0.9.9 rubybot, (c) Tom Gilbert - http://linuxbrit.co.uk/rbot/ |
| 01:19.00 | *** join/#utah brac (i=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 01:19.03 | hans | http://charlespetzold.com/etc/DoesVisualStudioRotTheMind.html |
| 01:19.06 | brac | [Does Visual Studio Rot the Mind?] |
| 01:19.32 | ScytheBlade1 | whoo |
| 01:19.35 | ScytheBlade1 | thank you |
| 01:19.43 | hans | xbmodder: that link has the source code, plus these modules that I modified: http://hans.fugal.net/tmp/brac/ |
| 01:19.43 | brac | [Index of /tmp/brac] |
| 01:21.34 | xbmodder_lappy | cool. thanks man |
| 01:22.25 | xbmodder_lappy | I am writing a simple IRC bot |
| 01:22.29 | xbmodder_lappy | what should I make it do? |
| 01:24.11 | hans | tease ibot? |
| 01:24.54 | xbmodder_lappy | lol |
| 01:29.39 | xbmodder_lappy | other than that |
| 01:37.18 | mheath | Hmm, I'm debating the best way to do this.... |
| 01:37.50 | mheath | I think I'm going to create a transversible tree of services provided throughout the local network |
| 01:38.05 | mheath | Objects |
| 01:38.25 | mheath | When a client connects to the network, it'll probe for this tree by identifying and communicating with a server |
| 01:39.24 | mheath | You'd have something like: |
| 01:40.31 | mheath | Well, hmm.. |
| 01:40.48 | xbmodder_lappy | thats great |
| 01:41.02 | xbmodder_lappy | oops |
| 01:41.04 | xbmodder_lappy | wrong room |
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| 02:36.01 | maquis | did anyone get a screenshot of the provo city website? |
| 02:36.08 | maquis | it's all 404s now... |
| 02:44.01 | tensai | maquis: you should have grabbed a screenshot just after you hacked in |
| 02:44.29 | maquis | tensai: like i know enough for that..... |
| 02:44.38 | hans | you spykid you |
| 02:44.56 | tensai | maquis: you broke in you my server |
| 02:45.14 | maquis | only in utah would a group of 1337 h4x0rs name themselvs after a disney movie |
| 02:45.19 | maquis | tensai: uh... sure :) |
| 02:45.32 | maquis | http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=2234582005 <-- interesting |
| 02:49.15 | tensai | maquis: http://www.richardkmiller.com/files/provocityhacked.png |
| 02:49.36 | maquis | tensai: just saw that show up on plug :) |
| 02:49.47 | maquis | that's way sweet! |
| 02:50.58 | mheath | This is kinda neat :) |
| 02:51.02 | maquis | tis a lot nicer than the typical "j00v b33n 0wnz3r3d" or whatever... |
| 02:51.05 | mheath | A client connects to the network |
| 02:51.17 | mheath | and it then connects, via RMI, to a "ROT Server" (Remote Object Table) |
| 02:51.34 | mheath | Which contains a set of key and value pairs that relate to what servers are available and currently enabled/disabled on the network |
| 02:51.44 | mheath | For example; say you're at school |
| 02:51.55 | mheath | And the teacher disables access to the internet |
| 02:52.13 | JoshH | maquis: actually there was a link to spykids.br, i don't think they are from utah |
| 02:52.31 | mheath | When you try to connect to a website from your browser, it would contact the ROT server and request the key "services.www" |
| 02:52.32 | maquis | JoshH: hmmm... |
| 02:52.39 | JoshH | maybe thats a popular movie in brazil |
| 02:52.47 | mheath | SInce it's disabled, requesting that key would return 'null' |
| 02:52.48 | maquis | dunno |
| 02:53.10 | mheath | When the teacher chooses to enable it, though, it would return a reference to RMI server that acts as a gateway to the internet. |
| 02:53.15 | maquis | so, they just stumbled across this as an easy target? |
| 02:53.58 | tensai | maquis: didn't you know that Provo is run by a Brazilian drug cartel and this is just a turf war |
| 02:54.21 | maquis | tensai: haha |
| 02:56.28 | tensai | maquis: I'm serious |
| 02:56.40 | mheath | Hmm, and a security server validates updates to the ROT Table |
| 02:57.02 | mheath | IE, say that teacher wants to change the services.www key |
| 02:57.07 | mheath | They'd contact the ROT server |
| 02:57.41 | mheath | then the ROT server would contact that Security server and ask if that client has the privleges to change the key services.www |
| 02:58.33 | mheath | Ontop of that, so that different clients can have different access and priveleges, you're assigned to a certian context |
| 02:59.01 | mheath | IE, you might be stuck in the "class.programming" context |
| 02:59.17 | mheath | so a lookup to "services.www" would actually be looking up "class.programming.services.www" |
| 02:59.51 | mheath | I'm so happy I came up with this idea :) |
| 03:00.48 | mheath | Say the bell rings, and its time for a new class |
| 03:01.03 | mheath | Your context would be automaticaly updated |
| 03:01.22 | mheath | updateContext('mheath', 'classes.english'); |
| 03:03.54 | mheath | Meh, sorry for spamming the channel with my stupid ideas |
| 03:12.12 | sjansen | maquis: they're probably from brazil based on the name spykids.br |
| 03:12.27 | maquis | sjansen: that's what JoshH said... |
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| 03:15.53 | sjansen | ~lart JoshH |
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| 03:27.52 | Supaplex | ~pal JoshH |
| 03:29.54 | maquis | you know it's bad when you're doing something and you consistently hit a useless button instead of the button you want |
| 03:30.10 | maquis | the thing is... the useful button isn't where i'm expecting it to be |
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| 03:49.33 | maquis | wow... that's impressive |
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| 03:50.07 | maquis | up until this upcoming week, security projects have been due on the first and third thursdays of the month (coincidentally on uug thursdays) |
| 03:50.22 | maquis | this week, the uug meeting is moved to tuesday |
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| 03:50.28 | *** join/#utah fishyfir1 (n=Fishyfir@158.91.203.5) |
| 03:50.28 | maquis | and so is the security project.... |
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| 03:50.36 | maquis | fishyfir1: sup? |
| 03:50.53 | jsmith | maquis: You've been flirting w/ Murphy (and his famous law) again, haven't you :-) |
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| 03:52.27 | maquis | jsmith: i don't know why murphy's constantly pestering me |
| 03:52.36 | maquis | it's not very nice of him, though |
| 03:58.14 | maquis | ~curse murphy |
| 03:58.16 | ibot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, murphy ! |
| 04:00.41 | sjansen | http://www.lukechueh.com/paintings/i-asked-for-scrambled.html |
| 04:00.42 | brac | [LUKE CHUEH : I ASKED FOR SCRAMBLED] |
| 04:01.28 | sjansen | http://www.lukechueh.com/paintings/hope-extinguished.html |
| 04:01.29 | brac | [LUKE CHUEH : HOPE EXTINGUISHED] |
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| 04:16.23 | graphy1 | Is there any way in vi to do formatting for code? |
| 04:16.34 | graphy1 | Like putting a segment with 2 spaces out? |
| 04:22.52 | maquis | so, i just had someone ask me how long it would take to download the installer for adobe acrobat over dialup |
| 04:23.04 | maquis | i had forgotten about dialup |
| 04:23.07 | jsmith | graphyx: Yup -- there are lots of setting in vim specifically for coding (in a variety of languages) |
| 04:23.27 | jsmith | graphyx: For a more specific answer, try asking a more specific question :-) |
| 04:23.28 | fishyfire | lol... back at home they finally were able to get highspeed |
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| 04:24.34 | SpecialK | ~lart Comcast |
| 04:25.47 | jsmith | graphyx_home: For example, the "ai", "cindent", and "autoindent" settings might be what you're looking for, if you want auto-indentation |
| 04:26.09 | maquis | and you can set how far in to indent too |
| 04:26.38 | graphyx_home | jsmith: Well I am just looking for when I cut and paste a section of code. I was hoping for a simple way to move all the lines back to fit the rest of the code. |
| 04:26.52 | graphyx_home | Is there any one shot format this type of code commands? |
| 04:28.55 | byronc | graphyx_home: before pasting, type :set paste |
| 04:29.03 | byronc | graphyx_home: after pasting, type :set nopaste |
| 04:29.18 | graphyx_home | ok |
| 04:29.23 | graphyx_home | I'll try it. |
| 04:29.24 | jsmith | graphyx: You could also use a visual block... |
| 04:29.34 | byronc | graphyx_home: that assumes you are using vim |
| 04:29.59 | graphyx_home | Sometimes I think I have a small understanding about how VI works and then you guys go and teach me something new and I feel like I am just barely getting started. |
| 04:31.11 | sjansen | We're all just barely getting started when it comes to Vim. |
| 04:31.32 | bigdog_ut | unless you are bram |
| 04:35.02 | bigdog_ut | i try and crack open the help/tutorial each morning and read a section |
| 04:35.38 | maquis | http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/ |
| 04:35.43 | bigdog_ut | im still at the basic command level though |
| 04:36.31 | bigdog_ut | maquis, helps keep the aliens from reading your mind...good thing mit has it cover (literally |
| 04:36.42 | maquis | bigdog_ut: but they don't work! |
| 04:36.47 | maquis | read the article |
| 04:37.16 | maquis | and it has to be fact, because i got the links from bruce schneier's blog! |
| 04:37.31 | maquis | haha |
| 04:37.35 | bigdog_ut | lol...cause they are missing the glass of water too |
| 04:37.41 | maquis | and there's even a rebuttal: http://zapatopi.net/blog/?post=200511112730.afdb_effectiveness |
| 04:38.46 | bigdog_ut | if i went to grad school i want to write my thesis on "deflector beanie technology" |
| 04:38.52 | maquis | :) |
| 04:39.29 | bigdog_ut | nice network analyser too |
| 04:39.40 | maquis | :) |
| 04:40.00 | bigdog_ut | some peeps got too much time |
| 04:40.18 | maquis | :) |
| 04:40.41 | bigdog_ut | whoever brought up dovecot in here...thanks so much...i got it installed today and it really rocks over courier |
| 04:40.50 | bigdog_ut | thanks again |
| 04:41.48 | graphyx_home | what about this? I am refactoring a perl program and using strict, but I can't figure out how to get a sub done correctly. |
| 04:45.12 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: It rocks, doesn't it :-) |
| 04:45.21 | bigdog_ut | very much so |
| 04:45.27 | bigdog_ut | and easy to get up and running |
| 04:45.44 | JoshH | dovecots awesome |
| 04:46.13 | bigdog_ut | i got it up and running with postfix and it rocks |
| 04:46.15 | jsmith | I like to tell people they should go buy a book on (Sendmail|Postfix|Exim), but if they even have to use google to figure something out with Dovecot, they're crazy... |
| 04:47.16 | bigdog_ut | i did read dovecots site on how they do stuff...very informative...though im not very proficient with mail systems |
| 04:47.36 | bigdog_ut | i set them up once and then just use them |
| 04:47.45 | JoshH | jsmith: you gotta like an app that tells you how to do anything in the config file |
| 04:48.08 | JoshH | bigdog_ut: well, to be fair, the imap/pop daemon is usually the simplest aspect of a mail system |
| 04:48.16 | bigdog_ut | im looking forward to the 1.0 version though...its got some killer features |
| 04:48.21 | JoshH | but dovecot is simpler than most |
| 04:48.28 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: Oh yeah? Like... |
| 04:48.50 | bigdog_ut | well you can start using more than one passwd_db |
| 04:49.13 | bigdog_ut | so you can have like /etc/passwd, mysql, and some other style |
| 04:49.19 | bigdog_ut | and have it go down the list |
| 04:50.02 | jsmith | Very nice... |
| 04:50.29 | bigdog_ut | based on the passwd style you can do different types of mail as well |
| 04:50.49 | bigdog_ut | so with a username/passwd combination you can get mail from different places |
| 04:50.55 | bigdog_ut | or change up the perms |
| 04:51.08 | jsmith | Very nice... |
| 04:51.24 | maquis | ha... looks like criminal charges should be headed sony's way in italy |
| 04:51.57 | Newsome | link? |
| 04:52.13 | maquis | http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/security/story/0,10801,106064,00.html?source=NLT_PM&nid=106064 |
| 04:52.17 | brac | [Italian police asked to probe Sony copy protection code - Computerworld] |
| 04:52.20 | graphyx_home | How does one get color vim over a ssh link? |
| 04:52.20 | Newsome | thanks |
| 04:52.32 | JoshH | too bad it won't negatively influence the lives of top sony execs in any way |
| 04:52.41 | bigdog_ut | ill get dovecot running with ldap here in a little while too |
| 04:52.57 | maquis | Newsome: i grabbed that from schneier --- http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/11/more_on_sonys_d.html |
| 04:52.59 | brac | [Schneier on Security: More on Sony's DRM Rootkit] |
| 04:53.00 | Newsome | graphyx: just make sure you've got TERM set to something useful |
| 04:53.08 | graphyx_home | how does one check that? |
| 04:53.20 | maquis | the aluminum foil hat one was from schneier too --- http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/11/the_security_of_1.html |
| 04:53.22 | brac | [Schneier on Security: The Security of Tin Foil Hats] |
| 04:53.31 | Newsome | graphyx: echo $TERM |
| 04:53.33 | graphyx_home | $TERM is set to xterm |
| 04:53.52 | JoshH | graphyx_home: and youre using a proper vimrc? |
| 04:54.07 | Newsome | graphyx_home: syntax enable? |
| 04:54.12 | graphyx_home | I am sshing to a debian box from a gentoo box. don't know if that should make a differnt. |
| 04:54.24 | graphyx_home | no .vimrc file |
| 04:54.28 | JoshH | all that should matter is the vimrc and possibly the term |
| 04:55.01 | JoshH | graphyx_home: cp /usr/share/vim/vim63/vimrc_example.vim ~/.vimrc |
| 04:55.06 | JoshH | edit to tastes |
| 04:55.15 | maquis | Then there's a California spyware-related law that says a company may not "induce" anyone to "install a software component" by claiming installation is necessary to "open, view or play a particular type of content." |
| 04:55.40 | JoshH | download this pdf *requires adobe acrobat* |
| 04:55.49 | JoshH | do those messages count? |
| 04:56.12 | graphyx_home | JoshH: Thanks. |
| 04:56.15 | graphyx_home | that did the trick. |
| 04:56.18 | maquis | dunno... but they don't require adobe acrobat :) |
| 04:56.22 | JoshH | cool |
| 04:56.34 | JoshH | right, but just about every pdf download link out there tells you it does |
| 04:56.40 | maquis | what's all the screaming out there about? |
| 04:56.48 | maquis | yeah |
| 04:56.53 | sjansen | you expect us to know? |
| 04:57.15 | maquis | "the box said requires windows 98 or better... so i installed linux" |
| 04:57.17 | maquis | :) |
| 04:57.25 | JoshH | there must be a boy band out there. http://www.cnn.com/2005/SHOWBIZ/Music/11/12/mall.chaos.ap/index.html |
| 04:57.27 | brac | [CNN.com - Boy band incites 'girl frenzy' at mall - Nov 12, 2005] |
| 04:57.56 | maquis | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:58.41 | maquis | hmmm |
| 04:59.14 | maquis | the question is, if the installation of a copyright control is illegal, can it be removed legally? |
| 05:00.17 | sjansen | no, that'll just get you in more trouble |
| 05:00.29 | Newsome | If Orrin Hatch destroys your computer, are you in violation of the DMCA to attempt to recover your data? |
| 05:00.34 | sjansen | you're already an accompliss to the installation, it'd be a shame to also violate the dmca |
| 05:03.08 | sjansen | Newsome: It's an obvious violation of The Will of Orrin (here after: TWO) and therefore illegal and immmoral. |
| 05:07.16 | maquis | http://news.com.com/2104-1028_3-5341625.html?tag=st.bp |
| 05:07.18 | brac | [Big Picture | Judges OK garage door openers in copyright case | CNET News.com] |
| 05:07.25 | maquis | that's a cool way of showing the news |
| 05:07.32 | maquis | it's a mind-map! |
| 05:09.14 | fishyfire | so did you find out what the screaming was about? |
| 05:09.18 | maquis | nah |
| 05:09.25 | maquis | didn't bother going out there |
| 05:09.34 | fishyfire | sounds like it is a pretty normal occurence |
| 05:10.52 | maquis | :) |
| 05:11.21 | maquis | so, i like how a lot of the cds that sony had this rootkit on have somewhat ironic names |
| 05:11.53 | maquis | "get right with the man" "the invisible invasion" "suspicious activity" "unwritten" "healthy in paranoid times" etc |
| 05:27.24 | graphyx_home | maquis: Lol |
| 05:28.52 | maquis | :) |
| 05:29.02 | maquis | so, does anybody know how to appease murphy... |
| 05:29.15 | maquis | i've decided that at some point in my life, i must've offended him, and he's haunted me ever since |
| 05:30.42 | fishyfire | perhaps cookies delivered to a certain apartment.... |
| 05:31.09 | maquis | fishyfire: murphy lives in provo? |
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| 05:36.10 | sjansen | nope, north salt lake |
| 05:36.19 | sjansen | p/m for details |
| 05:37.14 | maquis | haha |
| 05:37.20 | maquis | i found him in ldap :) |
| 05:37.24 | fishyfire | lol |
| 05:37.29 | xbmodder_lappy | huh? |
| 05:37.29 | graphyx_home | sjansen: does this do what I think it does in perl? |
| 05:37.30 | graphyx_home | %results[$id] = ($hrefp,$testp,$altp); |
| 05:37.46 | fishyfire | i'm sure you could drop it buy any of our houses and we could get it to him... |
| 05:37.51 | graphyx_home | That will assign to the key $id the value of list ($a, $b, $c), right? |
| 05:37.52 | fishyfire | by not buy |
| 05:41.38 | sjansen | graphyx_home: Sorry, too rusty. Doesn't look quite right, though. |
| 05:42.32 | sjansen | For some reason $results{$id} seems right, but I'd really recommend writing a test script and poking it. |
| 05:46.49 | graphyx_home | sjansen: I decided to just push the entire list onto a stack. I don't need random access... Just a data storage point. |
| 05:46.52 | goozbach | ~lart bank holidays |
| 05:47.06 | goozbach | So I'm on a date... |
| 05:47.19 | goozbach | and thinking "yesterday was payday" |
| 05:47.43 | goozbach | stupid bank didn't do the auto deposit |
| 05:47.52 | goozbach | grrr |
| 05:48.05 | goozbach | ~kill bank holidays |
| 05:48.09 | ibot | ACTION shoots a quark gun at bank holidays |
| 05:51.57 | goozbach | so needless to say I'm glad I always bring a cash backup :) |
| 05:58.17 | fishyfire | yeah, that's good |
| 06:13.32 | maquis | ~lart goozbach |
| 06:13.42 | maquis | goozbach: ouch |
| 06:26.11 | fishyfire | any suggestions on how to make a dryer stop squeaking/ squealing? |
| 06:26.26 | roscivs | fishyfire: Turn it off? ;-) |
| 06:26.52 | fishyfire | well that would be all fine and dandy,.... but then there would be the problem of drying the clothes |
| 06:27.04 | roscivs | hmmm.... do you have any pentiums in the house? |
| 06:27.07 | maquis | fishyfire: have you figured out where the squeaking is coming from? |
| 06:27.23 | fishyfire | inside of it somewhere.... |
| 06:27.38 | maquis | fishyfire: you have to get more specific than that |
| 06:28.08 | goozbach | belt dressing |
| 06:28.15 | maquis | is it someplace where wd-40 would reach |
| 06:28.17 | maquis | ? |
| 06:28.22 | goozbach | 90% of the time it's a belt going out |
| 06:28.28 | fishyfire | going out? |
| 06:28.34 | fishyfire | it's a brand new dryer.... |
| 06:28.44 | fishyfire | hmmm guess maybe i'll call management |
| 06:28.50 | goozbach | maybe tightening the belt |
| 06:28.52 | fishyfire | they love to hear from me again |
| 06:29.04 | fishyfire | would love |
| 06:29.14 | goozbach | so I just discovered snownews |
| 06:29.20 | goozbach | a CLI feed reader |
| 06:29.22 | goozbach | cool |
| 06:29.32 | maquis | goozbach: cool |
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| 06:49.35 | goozbach | I didn't know elinks did tabs |
| 06:49.37 | goozbach | cool |
| 07:06.28 | levi | Gah, I hate overly-aggressive spam blockers. |
| 07:06.48 | levi | Some guy replied to a classified ad, and my replies to him keep getting blocked. |
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| 07:10.56 | ScytheBlade1 | lol! |
| 07:10.56 | ScytheBlade1 | http://newtechinc.blogspot.com/2005/11/using-sonys-drm-against-itself.html |
| 07:10.59 | brac | [NewTech Inc.: Using Sony's DRM Against Itself (circumventing sony DRM Measures Legally)] |
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| 17:07.54 | maquis | ~hug stake conference for being in the afternoon |
| 17:07.56 | ibot | ACTION hugs stake conference for being in the afternoon |
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| 17:23.42 | bonez39 | maquis, feel blessed you can attend and actually listen....once the ankle biters show up...you don't get to listen ... for several years..... |
| 17:24.02 | mheath | Anyone decent with Java? |
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| 17:45.54 | tensai | ~smack maquis |
| 17:45.56 | ibot | ACTION smacks maquis upside the head. |
| 17:50.45 | maquis | bonez39: haha |
| 17:50.49 | maquis | ~lart tensai |
| 18:00.08 | mheath | I'd like some feedback....hmmm. |
| 19:03.12 | maquis | ~lart SpecialK |
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| 19:56.04 | tensai | ~squish maquis |
| 19:56.07 | ibot | ACTION squishes maquis like a bug |
| 20:10.14 | Hhhhh | hello |
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| 20:40.04 | mheath | This is still very much a work in progress, but I'd appreciate any suggestions anyone has about http://revolution.datamachine.net/rot-rfc.txt |
| 20:42.19 | mheath | Please take a look. Its currently very short, and I am really looking for suggestions and comments (Hence, RFC :) ) |
| 21:00.16 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@h46076ab4.area7.spcsdns.net) |
| 21:05.05 | *** topic/#utah by sjansen -> The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, uphpu.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com. See planetutah.adelantellc.com for aggregate feeds --- *** Jeff Waugh, of Gnome and Ubuntu fame, will be speaking at BYU on Tuesday, Nov 15 (http://uug.byu.edu/events.php?id=166) Be there or maquis will beat you up!!! *** |
| 21:05.31 | *** join/#utah jnbek (n=jnbek@c-67-166-97-223.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 21:05.34 | *** topic/#utah by sjansen -> The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, uphpu.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com. See planetutah.adelantellc.com for aggregate feeds *** Jeff Waugh, of Gnome and Ubuntu fame, will be speaking at BYU on Tuesday, Nov 15 (http://uug.byu.edu/events.php?id=166) Be there or maquis will beat you up!!! *** |
| 21:12.46 | mheath | Hmm, I've decided to give Windowmaker+GNUStep a try |
| 21:12.52 | mheath | NextStep seems so wonderful =\ |
| 21:13.00 | bigdog_ut | ~slap mheath |
| 21:13.03 | ibot | ACTION slaps mheath, keep your grubby fingers to yourself! |
| 21:13.13 | mheath | bigdog_ut: What was that for?! :) |
| 21:13.56 | bigdog_ut | you need icewm or xfce |
| 21:14.13 | mheath | GNUStep is more powerful |
| 21:14.21 | mheath | I dunno, I'm currently running Gnome, but getting fed up |
| 21:14.32 | mheath | its nice, but not the fastest thing on My Pentium3 500mhz |
| 21:17.26 | mheath | bigdog_ut: take a look at that little RFC, would you? |
| 21:18.42 | mheath | actually, I think I might go with fluxbox instead |
| 21:19.11 | emcnabb__ | I used fluxbox for several years and enjoyed it quite a bit |
| 21:19.36 | mheath | I used to run it a lot |
| 21:19.49 | mheath | its a bit too minimal for my tastes, really, but its very speedy for slower computers |
| 21:20.18 | emcnabb | I glanced at it, but I'm not to interested in the topic |
| 21:20.28 | emcnabb | you won't get too much feedback from me :-) |
| 21:21.07 | bigdog_ut | mheath, which rfc? |
| 21:21.21 | bigdog_ut | mheath, check out icewm...runs really good on slower machines |
| 21:21.29 | mheath | bigdog_ut: http://revolution.datamachine.net/rot-rfc.txt |
| 21:21.30 | bigdog_ut | very light weight |
| 21:21.38 | mheath | bigdog_ut: fluxbox is lighterweight than icewm |
| 21:22.06 | emcnabb | ~lart Caps Lock |
| 21:22.50 | mheath | sjansen: if it makes you feel any better, just remember that keyboards will probably be obsolete in 20 years :) |
| 21:23.10 | mheath | bigdog_ut: ROT is a foundation technology, required for a variety of higher level projects and protocols I'm wokring on. |
| 21:23.14 | sjansen | suuuuuuuuuuuuure |
| 21:23.45 | bigdog_ut | why rot and not another proto like kerberos or corba? |
| 21:24.22 | mheath | bigdog_ut: CORBA is a method of accessing remote objects. ROT is a protocol for finding and limiting usage of remote objects. |
| 21:24.34 | sjansen | So are you suggested they'll be replaced by the cacophany of voice interface, the improbability of switching to corded keyboards, or the impossibility of mind reading? |
| 21:24.35 | bigdog_ut | okay so you have jndi |
| 21:25.31 | mheath | bigdog_ut: ROT is customized for my particular application. As I said, its designed to be a foundation protocol that drives a vareity of higher-level projects I'm working on. |
| 21:25.36 | xbmodder_lappy | hey |
| 21:25.38 | xbmodder_lappy | sup all? |
| 21:26.12 | mheath | mheath: Plus, rather than being simply a directory of available objects, ROT is more user and privilege oriented |
| 21:26.49 | bigdog_ut | sound similar to jess |
| 21:27.25 | sjansen | bigdog_ut: ROT is IH whereas everything else is NIH. |
| 21:27.50 | mheath | sjansen: IH, NIH? |
| 21:28.04 | sjansen | NIH == not invented here |
| 21:28.23 | sjansen | Why build a cart when you can have more fun reinventing the wheel? |
| 21:29.00 | mheath | sjansen: how does it reinvent the wheel? |
| 21:30.03 | bigdog_ut | i guess i would have to work with it to see the benefits...but it seems similar to other techs out there |
| 21:31.23 | xbmodder_lappy | NIH |
| 21:31.45 | mheath | bigdog_ut: Its essentially an object nameserver, but with support for users, advanced privileges, context jailing, etc., etc. |
| 21:32.11 | mheath | I've looked around a lot before I started working on this idea, trying to find something else that did everything I needed |
| 21:32.34 | mheath | Many other things provided several of the features that ROT will posess, but none of them did it all, or did it in a way I was happy with. |
| 21:33.01 | bigdog_ut | i can see that...just not the usage |
| 21:34.02 | mheath | bigdog_ut: Yeah, I can understand that. ROT is for a rather specific purpose, and is a very low level protocol. |
| 21:34.20 | mheath | Have you been around before, when I've been discussing my wireless tablet thinterminal idea? |
| 21:34.29 | bigdog_ut | nope |
| 21:35.03 | mheath | I'm working on developing a hardware and software solution for wireless tablet thinterminals, in the pricerange of ~$200. |
| 21:35.15 | mheath | They're designed to work in an aggressively object oriented networking situation |
| 21:35.48 | bigdog_ut | that would be cool...i like that tablet idea |
| 21:35.55 | bigdog_ut | i like the hotsync too |
| 21:36.00 | mheath | ROT, a simple protocol, provides the foundation for this |
| 21:36.00 | bigdog_ut | if it could do that |
| 21:37.02 | mheath | Let me give you an example...... |
| 21:37.06 | bigdog_ut | k |
| 21:37.17 | mheath | When I came up with the idea for these tablets, it was originally mainly geared for education purposes |
| 21:37.45 | mheath | The idea being, it would be feasible for a school to buy one of these $200 tablets for every student, rather than buying several labs full of expensive desktop computers. |
| 21:38.13 | mheath | When you get to school in the morning and connect to the school's network, you'd be placed in the ROT context of, for example, classes.english |
| 21:38.49 | mheath | This would allow the teacher to control what resources you're able to access |
| 21:39.48 | mheath | Say your teacher wanted to show a powerpoint presentation, on your tablet |
| 21:40.29 | mheath | Your tablet would be able to, for example, attach its view to "views.classview", which would be resolved by the ROT server to classes.english.views.classview |
| 21:42.32 | mheath | ROT is basically designed to provide object namserver capabilities. Its support for context jailing is the main feature; you can access resources based on standard names (views.classview, for example) and it will automatically access the resources relevant to your current situation. |
| 21:43.13 | mheath | bigdog_ut: you following this? |
| 21:43.35 | bigdog_ut | yeah |
| 21:44.15 | bigdog_ut | seems like a good idea...how far along are you? |
| 21:44.48 | mheath | bigdog_ut: I'm currently working on the main ROT server, as well as a basic client library |
| 21:45.20 | bigdog_ut | are you very far along? |
| 21:45.40 | mheath | Not particularly, yet. |
| 21:46.31 | mheath | I'll have to complete the ROT server, the client library, and the Auth server before this will be particularly useful |
| 21:46.39 | bigdog_ut | how much time have you put into it so far? |
| 21:47.42 | mheath | bigdog_ut: Not much. ~10 hours of coding work. ROT is a new idea of mine, designed to overcome some shortcomings in how I had been doing things. |
| 21:48.51 | bigdog_ut | cool |
| 21:50.08 | mheath | brb |
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| 21:56.00 | xbmodder | Can gcc be use to exploit a server? |
| 21:56.27 | mheath | xbmodder: Not really. |
| 21:57.16 | xbmodder | thanks. |
| 21:57.18 | {-} | It can be useful to have while trying to subvert a system, yes. |
| 21:58.10 | xbmodder | how so? |
| 21:58.38 | {-} | If an attacker gets access to the system, he can then compile custom exploits instead of using pre-compiled exploits that may not work on that system. (Different library version, etc.) |
| 21:58.42 | mheath | xbmodder: If your trying to exploit a system, gcc is useful if you want to compile some kind of exploit |
| 21:58.56 | mheath | However, you could just as easily compile it on another system, and upload it to the server |
| 21:59.19 | {-} | mheath: you're assuming that you have a similar enough system |
| 21:59.40 | {-} | Not everyone keeps a copy of HP-UX lying around in their bedroom. |
| 21:59.52 | xbmodder | mheath, yeah.. or use uuencode/decode |
| 22:00.35 | {-} | That comment makes no sense to me. |
| 22:00.51 | xbmodder | instead of uploading it. |
| 22:00.59 | xbmodder | nvm. |
| 22:01.16 | xbmodder | ok. |
| 22:01.40 | xbmodder | should I use chattr to block everyone but root and his friends from gcc |
| 22:02.10 | {-} | *shrug* Depends on how paranoid you want to be. |
| 22:03.10 | {-} | Frankly, if you're running a recent distribution of Linux on x86 it'll buy you very little. |
| 22:04.28 | mheath | Wow, I'm happy I'm back in Fluxbox |
| 22:04.33 | mheath | simple, yet functional, and very speedy. |
| 22:05.02 | {-} | Now if you're using OpenBSD on ARM, sure toss in one more hoop to frustrate attackers. ;-) |
| 22:15.37 | bigdog_ut | mheath, what distro you runnin? |
| 22:15.59 | mheath | bigdog_ut: Currently, gentoo. |
| 22:16.09 | bigdog_ut | man after my own heart |
| 22:16.18 | mheath | Mainly because I like to try new things, and keep my system up to date. Gentoo makes it easier to do this than most other distros. |
| 22:16.22 | mheath | I used to run Slackware only |
| 22:17.00 | bigdog_ut | likewise...i like being up to date...cutting edge and i like checking out new apps |
| 22:17.43 | mheath | Ooh, mrxvt. That looks nice.... |
| 22:17.49 | ScytheBlade1 | mmm gentoo |
| 22:17.50 | mheath | RXVT with transparency and tabs |
| 22:17.51 | {-} | "Oh to be young again." |
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