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| 02:30.25 | xbmodder_lappy | hey |
| 02:31.00 | goozbach | xbmodder_lappy: you do python development, no? |
| 02:31.08 | xbmodder_lappy | yeah, I do. |
| 02:31.16 | xbmodder_lappy | Ask, why do you? |
| 02:31.50 | goozbach | so I've decided to bite the bullet and learn python, and I have a really good idea for a larger project. An open source replacement to RHN. interested in helping out? |
| 02:32.10 | xbmodder_lappy | goozbach, yeah, I looked at doing that. |
| 02:32.21 | xbmodder_lappy | I was talking to the guys at RH |
| 02:32.33 | xbmodder_lappy | and they said that it would need alotta devs. |
| 02:32.34 | goozbach | "the guys" being? |
| 02:32.52 | xbmodder_lappy | at mountain view there were some of the original RHN devs. |
| 02:33.29 | xbmodder_lappy | but could I have some more details? |
| 02:33.33 | goozbach | really I don't think it'd would be THAT big |
| 02:33.43 | xbmodder_lappy | like ~30 he said |
| 02:33.50 | xbmodder_lappy | they had to prototype with 5 |
| 02:34.15 | goozbach | I'm just finishing up a diagram of the components and their interconnects |
| 02:34.22 | goozbach | I'll post it in a bit |
| 02:34.51 | xbmodder_lappy | cool. |
| 02:38.29 | xbmodder_lappy | goozbach, will it be distro dependent? |
| 02:38.34 | xbmodder_lappy | or modulus? |
| 02:42.54 | goozbach | ideally as distro-agnostic as possible |
| 02:43.17 | xbmodder_lappy | cool. |
| 02:44.12 | goozbach | basicly any yum-capable distro |
| 02:45.30 | xbmodder_lappy | cool. |
| 02:45.44 | xbmodder_lappy | module based. |
| 02:47.21 | xbmodder_lappy | goozbach, will it be like RHN the administration all centralized or will it be a bit "looser" than RHN |
| 02:49.37 | goozbach | centralized admin |
| 02:49.52 | goozbach | not really module based, but at least librified |
| 02:50.13 | goozbach | that's one of the biggest perks of RHN is the administration. |
| 02:50.29 | xbmodder_lappy | yeah |
| 02:56.16 | mrpull-lt | goozbach: have you seen WSUS? |
| 02:58.48 | goozbach | nope |
| 02:58.52 | goozbach | url? |
| 02:59.03 | xbmodder_lappy | ~google wsus |
| 02:59.23 | goozbach | windows server update services? |
| 03:00.15 | goozbach | Washington State Urology Society? |
| 03:00.53 | xbmodder_lappy | lol |
| 03:01.06 | xbmodder_lappy | windows server update services I am guessing. |
| 03:03.15 | goozbach | mrpull-lt: why would I be interested in that? |
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| 03:07.36 | tensai | ~smack Uncle_Jesse |
| 03:07.37 | ibot | ACTION smacks Uncle_Jesse upside the head. |
| 03:26.05 | mrpull-lt | goozbach: compared to my experience with RHN, it is a better product |
| 03:26.32 | mrpull-lt | (of course i've only used the basic RHN updating service) |
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| 03:30.52 | goozbach | so what your saying mrpull-lt is that I should use a properitary microsoft product to manage my large enterprise of linux servers |
| 03:30.55 | goozbach | ? |
| 03:31.05 | goozbach | don't let balmer hear that idea |
| 03:31.07 | maquis | goozbach: sup? |
| 03:31.17 | goozbach | just getting ready for bed |
| 03:31.24 | maquis | cool |
| 03:31.24 | mrpull-lt | nope. i'm saying it could be good inspiration to your RHN replacement. |
| 03:31.28 | goozbach | realized how late it was |
| 03:31.35 | maquis | all types of fun stuff |
| 03:31.50 | goozbach | yay! |
| 03:31.54 | maquis | :) |
| 03:31.58 | maquis | just installed firefox :) |
| 03:32.14 | mrpull-lt | the web interface is very nice, it is easy to group nodes and apply updates based on computer roles |
| 03:34.22 | xbmodder_lappy | maquis, what'd s/he do? |
| 03:34.44 | xbmodder_lappy | goozbach, do you have the chart |
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| 03:50.23 | maquis | xbmodder_lappy: just filled it up with viruses/spyware |
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| 03:50.59 | maquis | i pulled off what i could with the add/remove programs, and installed norton antivirus |
| 03:51.27 | maquis | didn't look like there was too much spyware, and norton was catching some, so i'm hoping that'll be enough |
| 03:51.51 | maquis | i told her to call if she can't figure out what t do from here |
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| 04:27.16 | tensai | hans: icmp echo-request |
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| 04:30.28 | hans | um, slam dunk |
| 04:31.36 | tensai | hans: question for you about genealogy software |
| 04:32.01 | tensai | wife wants to use paf, but it only "sorta" works under linux. crashes now and again. |
| 04:32.14 | tensai | gramps is stable, but it's "different". |
| 04:32.27 | tensai | any experience using using gramps and sharing data with paf users? |
| 04:34.08 | goozbach | xbmodder_lappy, others who may be interested: http://www.friocorte.com/projects/yumamp/ |
| 04:34.38 | hans | not really, but I know what it would entail |
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| 04:34.46 | hans | basically you're going back and forth from gedcom |
| 04:35.15 | hans | which is great (well, good enough) for sharing data |
| 04:35.42 | hans | but a really bad idea for moving your own data back and forth (like going jpg->png->jpg over and over) |
| 04:35.57 | hans | (although it probably gets to a worst-base and stops getting worse at that point) |
| 04:36.13 | Tene | might be interested, goo |
| 04:36.21 | Tene | I'll take a better look at it tomorrow. |
| 04:37.19 | tensai | hans: interesting. I see that both paf and gramps have a merge feature that more or less works to remove duplicates |
| 04:38.39 | hans | yeah |
| 04:38.52 | hans | that's a manual process in both, last I checked, though |
| 04:39.05 | hans | well, at least you can say let me approve them |
| 04:39.16 | hans | which you should always do if you care about your data. :) |
| 04:39.22 | tensai | data shmata |
| 04:40.07 | tensai | so in your professional opinion would I be best to push her to gramps or try to convince her that paf is *supposed* to crash all the time? |
| 04:40.20 | tensai | or a third alternative... |
| 04:49.18 | hans | :) |
| 04:49.26 | hans | if gramps has the functionality, push it |
| 04:49.37 | hans | if it doesn't, find a way to run paf, or find another that works better in wine |
| 04:49.53 | hans | but any of the commercial ones are going to be 'different' than paf, too, so that's no help |
| 04:50.11 | hans | well except maybe ancestral quest since it's based on the same codebase |
| 04:50.37 | hans | I'd recommend, if you're going to go the something-else-under-wine route, looking at TMG (the master genealogist) |
| 04:51.20 | hans | It's serious and geeky, but it's also (at least the version before the current one was) written in pretty modest terms (portability back to win95 and all that) |
| 04:51.37 | hans | geeky as in family history geek |
| 04:51.41 | hans | but geeks are geeks, eh? |
| 04:52.56 | hans | short of setting up a windows box (or dual boot situation) for just paf, probably gramps is your best option. it's not too shabby these days |
| 04:53.21 | hans | at least until the church comes out with its fabled semi-oss java blow-it-out-of-the-water-yeah-right paf replacement. |
| 04:58.12 | tensai | so far gramps seems a lot better than paf to me |
| 04:58.24 | tensai | at least at tranferring and merging data |
| 05:11.42 | xbmodder_lappy | goozbach, |
| 05:11.45 | xbmodder_lappy | goozbach, you here? |
| 05:22.48 | findlay | I'm here, what more do you need? |
| 05:23.13 | xbmodder_lappy | goozbach.... |
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| 13:56.41 | graphyx | morning. |
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| 14:37.06 | goozbach | xbmodder_lappy: pong |
| 14:39.40 | goozbach | his class is a blast! |
| 14:40.31 | goozbach | one of my students asked: "what would happen if we did a recursive chattr +i?" |
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| 14:57.00 | graphyx | What is the easiest way of resetting a root password on a redhat box? (local access) |
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| 15:05.39 | xbmodder | hey |
| 15:05.50 | xbmodder | anyone got suggestions for some good DVDs? |
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| 15:12.27 | xbmodder | emcnabb: hey |
| 15:12.29 | xbmodder | levi: hey |
| 15:13.12 | goozbach | graphyx: reboot, then at the grub prompt, press a<space>1<enter> |
| 15:13.26 | goozbach | then just run passwd |
| 15:13.33 | xbmodder | yeah |
| 15:13.43 | xbmodder | is he in your class? |
| 15:14.17 | xbmodder | I remember you spent like an hour on the concept that someone could take your system via grub's "append" feature |
| 15:14.46 | xbmodder | later guys |
| 15:15.15 | goozbach | it's an important thing to know |
| 15:15.26 | jsmith | Yes, it is :-) |
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| 15:22.49 | sjansen | So I recently read through the Ars Technica article on the Microsoft shell. |
| 15:23.27 | sjansen | We were discussing it at work and my boss mentioned Linux needs an open source version of monad. It could be called gonad. |
| 15:24.22 | goozbach | so python is a lot more aproacable thn I previously thought. |
| 15:24.58 | goozbach | those python elitists may be on to something... |
| 15:25.03 | sjansen | Python's actually kinda nice. Until you start using Ruby and realize how ugle Python is. (To say nothing of Perl.) |
| 15:34.49 | levi | Python is still very nice, even in the face of Ruby. |
| 15:35.50 | levi | Ruby is full of perlisms, too, like <x> if <y> |
| 15:36.26 | levi | And ruby syntax is optimized for only a single block argument, which seems like a bizarre restriction to me. |
| 15:37.43 | levi | Not that I don't think Ruby is a cool language, too. |
| 15:38.05 | mheath | Meh, dentist appointment |
| 15:38.23 | levi | It's just not as remarkable as a lot of people make it out to be. |
| 15:39.09 | levi | Death to wisdom teeth! |
| 15:39.20 | emcnabb | http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/10/25/turk.letters.reut/index.html |
| 15:40.23 | levi | Heh, Joel Spolsky's recent blog post is interesting. :) |
| 15:40.43 | levi | http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2005/10/25.html |
| 15:42.29 | sjansen | http://www.windley.com/archives/2005/10/a_better_comman.shtml <-- a gift to all you silly OS X users out there |
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| 15:46.46 | levi | sjansen: Heh. Sorry, I was already aware of the mdutilities. |
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| 15:49.51 | goozbach | twisted++ |
| 15:51.52 | sjansen | ~greet tensai |
| 15:51.54 | ibot | ACTION dumps a bucket of cold oatmeal on tensai |
| 15:52.45 | levi | This looks like it could be interesting: http://blogs.inextenso.com/seaside/blog/learning/506eb8b7-4526-11da-b518-000d935fad1c |
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| 15:57.28 | sjansen | "However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results." -- Winston Churchill |
| 16:06.43 | maquis | and fails miserably |
| 16:08.57 | goozbach | haha you |
| 16:09.01 | sjansen | http://imdb.com/title/tt0088001/ |
| 16:09.18 | goozbach | jo fail it. |
| 16:09.52 | goozbach | wherels brac? |
| 16:10.07 | goozbach | which movie is that? |
| 16:11.35 | sjansen | "Rhinestone" - Dolly Parton teaches a cabbied played by Sylvester Stallone to be a country singer. |
| 16:12.32 | goozbach | that's a great movie |
| 16:13.01 | sjansen | The show Dolly from the chest up on the right half of the box, on the left half is Sly with his shirt off and a flexed arm that covers almost as much area as Dolly's chest. |
| 16:13.36 | goozbach | heh |
| 16:13.51 | goozbach | imagine sly singing... |
| 16:14.26 | goozbach | then imagine sly singing country... |
| 16:15.25 | goozbach | then if you haven't drilled out your own temple by then, |
| 16:15.51 | goozbach | think of dolly and sly in a love scene. |
| 16:15.58 | graphyx | where's brac? |
| 16:16.12 | Jayce^ | goozbach, you get a chance to check those pics out? |
| 16:16.22 | sjansen | Uhmm... given the model number of a copier, what nefarious deeds could you commit? |
| 16:16.26 | goozbach | yup |
| 16:16.35 | sjansen | One of our sales guys just got a call that went like this: |
| 16:17.14 | sjansen | "This is Don. I need the model number of the copier." "What copier?" "The big one in the back" "Who are you with?" *click* |
| 16:17.47 | graphyx | That's funny. |
| 16:17.52 | goozbach | heh |
| 16:18.00 | maquis | sjansen: haha |
| 16:18.10 | graphyx | Should have said. On great, but I need to fill out some part number acquisition form.s |
| 16:18.12 | graphyx | What is your name, |
| 16:18.16 | graphyx | employer. |
| 16:18.19 | graphyx | ssn |
| 16:18.22 | graphyx | date of birth. |
| 16:18.34 | graphyx | Something along the lines of the telemarket script. |
| 16:18.40 | graphyx | a script to use when telemarketers call you. |
| 16:19.21 | graphyx | http://www.junkbusters.com/script.html |
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| 16:34.39 | levi | Frankly, it looks like it kicks the crap out of any bash-style shell. |
| 16:36.02 | sjansen | not completely, sounds like there's still a couple of akward points, but by the time it's release it'll probably blow bash, etc. out of the water |
| 16:36.14 | levi | And bash isn't awkward? |
| 16:36.19 | levi | Unix shells /suck/. |
| 16:36.38 | levi | They're just way, way more powerful than what command.com provided. |
| 16:37.11 | levi | Actually using that power is an exercise in pain, though. |
| 16:38.00 | tensai | levi: what makes MS' new shell so much better? |
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| 16:38.34 | graphyx | Ok I am doing a for i in ... shell script, but I get these error messages. |
| 16:38.35 | graphyx | rm: cannot remove `\033[0maddedids\033[0m': No such file or directory |
| 16:38.38 | sjansen | Consistency. Ability to pass objects, not just strings. |
| 16:38.45 | graphyx | How do I strip ou the \033[0, etc? |
| 16:38.47 | levi | Higher order functions! |
| 16:39.06 | graphyx | so how long till we add those the bash? |
| 16:39.14 | tensai | graphyx: I'm guessing you're filtering ls, correct? |
| 16:39.16 | sjansen | graphyx: heh |
| 16:39.19 | graphyx | yeah |
| 16:39.43 | tensai | graphyx: try ls --color=none |
| 16:39.45 | sjansen | graphyx: the easiest solution is to use the exact path to /bin/ls to avoid aliases |
| 16:39.46 | graphyx | ok |
| 16:40.02 | graphyx | great. |
| 16:40.07 | sjansen | alternatively, you can say \ls and it'll give you the none aliased version, but that'll surprise people |
| 16:40.11 | graphyx | the --color=none did the trick. my thanks. |
| 16:40.27 | sjansen | graphyx: but the most correct answer is that your probably shouldn't be using ls |
| 16:40.43 | graphyx | sjansen what would you suggest? echo path? |
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| 16:41.06 | sjansen | graphyx: what you trying to accomplish? in my experience ls is rarely needing in a for loop |
| 16:41.29 | graphyx | Well I got the job done, but I had a set of files which I had copied and I didn't want them in the original position. |
| 16:41.31 | sjansen | you might be able to get by with simple globbing (and in fact if might be more robust) |
| 16:41.37 | graphyx | So I just deleted those I had copied previously. |
| 16:42.19 | sjansen | in addition, if you're looping over file names you should be using while read instead of a for loop |
| 16:42.27 | graphyx | so this was a method of rectifying that I had done a cp instead of a mv |
| 16:42.44 | graphyx | right.. names with spaces issue that you were made so aware of. |
| 16:42.45 | sjansen | but if this was a one-off, just file everything I've said under "for future reference" |
| 16:43.05 | graphyx | I do appreciate the help that you give.. |
| 16:47.42 | lars-ut | Everybody: I've been using m0n0wall & testing with pfSense of late. Which is your favorite software-based firewall? |
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| 16:54.16 | Bradipo | lars-ut: I prefer OpenBSD and pf. |
| 16:55.16 | lars-ut | Bradipo: What features are you using? NAT, proxy, shaping. etc ? |
| 16:55.24 | Bradipo | I've used all. |
| 16:55.32 | Bradipo | shaping less than the others though. |
| 16:55.43 | lars-ut | company box? |
| 16:55.54 | Bradipo | But since I have public IPs, I don't need NAT/proxy. |
| 16:56.05 | Bradipo | I have a block of IPs from my ISP. |
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| 16:56.50 | lars-ut | failover? |
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| 16:57.35 | Bradipo | I haven't had a chance to play with failover. |
| 16:57.39 | Bradipo | But it looks very cool. |
| 16:57.48 | Bradipo | And not terribly difficult to setup. |
| 16:59.34 | SpecialZ | ~lart maquis |
| 16:59.43 | lars-ut | Bradipo: Is your OpenBSD/pf box for personal or office use? |
| 17:02.50 | Bradipo | My OpenBSD/pf box is for both, although I rarely do much business out of the home these days. |
| 17:03.25 | Bradipo | It protects my home network and does a marvelous job at that. |
| 17:04.12 | Bradipo | How do you like m0n0wall (sp)? |
| 17:04.22 | *** join/#utah decriptor (n=decripto@67.108.235.2.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 17:05.27 | decriptor | not to start a war, but what does everyone recommend,(this is for a small office) courier imap or cyrus imap |
| 17:06.47 | jsmith | decriptor: Neither :-) |
| 17:07.23 | sjansen | I'm with jsmith. Use dovecot. |
| 17:07.31 | hans | me too |
| 17:07.35 | jsmith | sjansen: For once, you a agree with me! |
| 17:07.36 | decriptor | why should I consider dovecot |
| 17:07.43 | jsmith | decriptor: It's *simple*. |
| 17:07.44 | hans | because it's the best. |
| 17:07.52 | hans | it's the best because it's simple and it works |
| 17:07.56 | decriptor | well didn't see that coming |
| 17:08.01 | hans | the others are neither simple, nor do they work. |
| 17:08.03 | sjansen | Dovecot is dead simple. Like postfix and qmail, it has been designed for security. |
| 17:08.09 | jsmith | Nobody expects a Spanish inquisition... |
| 17:08.19 | Bradipo | decriptor: I prefer courier-imap over cyrus-imap. |
| 17:08.37 | Jayce^ | it's nice for a small group, but has been quite b0rked when we tried using it for larger installations |
| 17:08.37 | decriptor | dovecot is an option |
| 17:08.41 | decriptor | I'm not ruling it out |
| 17:08.44 | sjansen | Although the most important to use dovecot is that hans told you to. And we wouldn't want to upset hans. |
| 17:08.48 | decriptor | I just don't know anything about it |
| 17:08.56 | decriptor | :) |
| 17:08.58 | hans | :) |
| 17:09.12 | jsmith | That's the nice thing -- you don't have to know anything about it to make it work :-) |
| 17:09.34 | decriptor | maybe I'll look into it |
| 17:09.39 | Bradipo | You should. |
| 17:09.40 | decriptor | it comes with the distro |
| 17:09.48 | sjansen | Which distro? |
| 17:09.48 | decriptor | so it shouldn't be hard to get it |
| 17:09.49 | Bradipo | You should try them all out and decide which you like most. :-) |
| 17:09.50 | decriptor | suse |
| 17:09.57 | tensai | I like courier. never thought much of cyrus. |
| 17:10.06 | Bradipo | cyrus is a pain. |
| 17:10.06 | lars-ut | Bradipo: m0n0wall seems pretty solid - I've been using it for some time. |
| 17:10.15 | tensai | Bradipo: that was my impression |
| 17:10.24 | Jayce^ | about the only reason I haven't switched to it from courier, besides laziness, is that I make a bit of use of features like shared folders, which last I saw it didn't support |
| 17:10.28 | Bradipo | But it does have a ton of features. |
| 17:10.37 | decriptor | side note I talked to some people using monowall between several offices and its work great for him |
| 17:10.45 | lars-ut | It's limited. |
| 17:11.21 | Bradipo | jsmith: Ever used bincimap? |
| 17:11.47 | lars-ut | pfSense is pf-based, but still in heavey development. That being said, I'm using it at home with my Vonage service and I've had great results testing with it at work. |
| 17:11.52 | jsmith | Bradipo: Nope. |
| 17:12.19 | jsmith | lars-ut: Does pfSense support alias interfaces? |
| 17:12.39 | lars-ut | not sure |
| 17:12.41 | lars-ut | hold on |
| 17:13.15 | decriptor | for those dovecot lovers, and not what would be the draw backs to using dovecot - be honest :) |
| 17:13.43 | Bradipo | decriptor: It all depends on your needs. Try them out and see what you think. |
| 17:14.37 | maquis | question |
| 17:14.45 | decriptor | I probably won't be using shared mailboxes and quotas so thats not a big deall |
| 17:14.46 | decriptor | deal |
| 17:14.58 | maquis | for some reason, i think that mplayer is trying to use ipv6, and i can't figure out how to change that |
| 17:15.31 | maquis | the reason i'm thinking that is when i try to open a url in mplayer, it gives the error: "Couldn't resolve name for AF_INET6: <url>" |
| 17:15.33 | Bradipo | decriptor: You might also want to give bincimap a look. |
| 17:16.43 | maquis | anyone know how i could resolve this? |
| 17:16.52 | tensai | maquis: -prefer-ipv4 |
| 17:17.09 | maquis | tensai: cool |
| 17:17.23 | decriptor | I think that I'm going to give dovecot a chance |
| 17:18.00 | maquis | tensai: now i've got "Error while parsing chunk header" |
| 17:18.24 | tensai | maquis: try -no-parse-errors |
| 17:18.30 | sjansen | The two problems with dovecot are (1) it's still young and (2) it doesn't have as much feature bloat. |
| 17:18.40 | maquis | tensai: funny |
| 17:18.57 | tensai | maquis: :) |
| 17:19.03 | sjansen | tensai: does it also include a -magically-just-work-and-i-mean-it ? |
| 17:19.24 | lars-ut | jsmith: LAN & WAN seem to be static interface names, but you can have additional interfaces(OPT1, OPT2, etc..) and rename them to whatever you want. You can use virtual IPs to be shared between multiple nodes for redundancy. You can also assign aliases to real Hosts, Networks or Ports. |
| 17:19.39 | tensai | sjansen: as long as I'm making stuff up, why not |
| 17:19.53 | jsmith | lars-ut: Beautiful! |
| 17:21.04 | lars-ut | jsmith: The project is a wonderful example of why Open Source software can beat commercial offerings, and it's still very young. It includes a package system for add-ons, too. |
| 17:21.15 | maquis | tensai: out of curiosity, why is mplayer complaining that it can't open the joystick device? |
| 17:21.21 | lars-ut | ##pfsense is the dev channel |
| 17:21.43 | tensai | maquis: it thinks you might want to use your joystick to control the movie |
| 17:21.48 | jsmith | lars-ut: Can it save its configs to a USB key or cdrw? |
| 17:22.04 | lars-ut | not sure. |
| 17:22.10 | tensai | maquis: -nojoystick |
| 17:22.21 | lars-ut | jsmith: Somebody just posted on that I think. |
| 17:22.39 | jsmith | lars-ut: Ever been stuck in a situation trying to get m0n0wall to work, but you don't have a floppy drive handy? :-) |
| 17:22.58 | lars-ut | jsmith: ouch. |
| 17:23.26 | lars-ut | jsmith: guess I'd want a CF-IDE bridge in that case. |
| 17:23.50 | lars-ut | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:23.53 | lars-ut | :( |
| 17:24.11 | jsmith | lars-ut: Yeah... unfortunately, this was in a hotel wiring closet in LA in the middle of the night :-) |
| 17:24.43 | lars-ut | pfSense will work w/o a floppy - just don't reboot it. |
| 17:24.45 | lars-ut | :) |
| 17:24.56 | lars-ut | I've been installing to the hdd with it. |
| 17:25.06 | jsmith | OK, cool. |
| 17:25.45 | lars-ut | CF would be better I think - less moving parts in the box |
| 17:25.48 | maquis | tensai: it's not what's causing the problem... i'm just curious why it would want a joystick |
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| 17:26.32 | lars-ut | combat r00ls. |
| 17:27.03 | lars-ut | especially when you could defy physics with those tanks. |
| 17:30.35 | levi | Here's a cool writeup of Gerald Sussman's OOPSLA talk: http://www.cs.uni.edu/~wallingf/blog/archives/monthly/2005-10.html#e2005-10-24T19_36_27.htm |
| 17:30.58 | *** join/#utah brac (i=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 17:31.15 | *** join/#utah hans (i=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 17:35.46 | lars-ut | jsmith: pfSense with USB Flash Drives & Compact Flash cards: http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion@pfsense.com/msg00548.html |
| 17:35.49 | brac | [[pfSense-discussion] Booting pfSense from anything!] |
| 17:37.25 | lars-ut | WAA folks: ##windows seems to be a fairly useful channel |
| 17:38.40 | jeb | hans: trillian ldap ? |
| 17:39.06 | hans | what about it? is it not working? |
| 17:39.18 | jeb | cannot get into single user mode |
| 17:41.48 | jeb | need to comment out the ssl line in ldap.conf |
| 17:42.15 | hans | why can't you get to single-user? may need to use a boot disk of some kind and mount the filesystem |
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| 17:46.21 | *** part/#utah SpecialZ (n=chatzill@byu290896wks.byu.edu) |
| 17:51.44 | lars-ut | my new sig: Someone who proposes to run Windows on servers ought to be prepared to explain what they know about servers that Google, Yahoo!, and Amazon don't know. --Paul Graham |
| 17:51.54 | lars-ut | from http://www.itconversations.com/shows/detail657.html |
| 17:51.55 | brac | [IT Conversations: Paul Graham - OSCON 2005] |
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| 18:51.43 | sjansen | Okay, antlr rocks. |
| 18:51.45 | graphyx | lars-ut-away: nice |
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| 19:30.02 | *** join/#utah DV8 (n=bucky@65-37-78-90.bras01.mob.ut.frontiernet.net) |
| 19:30.19 | DV8 | Minutes of one district board meeting showed discussion on how the teacher supposedly liked Halloween and preferred the "dark side," |
| 19:31.24 | DV8 | HA! this from Sevier School District who is getting sued by Minnesota and Ohio for being in an MLM that screwed 600 school districts out of $114 million |
| 19:34.20 | maquis | levi: ping |
| 19:34.21 | maquis | ? |
| 19:34.27 | levi | maquis: pong |
| 19:40.31 | JoshH | DV8: ya, that was ridiculous |
| 19:40.31 | spr | http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/drives/7b1c/?cpg=wnrdf |
| 19:40.31 | brac | [ThinkGeek :: Mvix Multimedia Player] |
| 19:40.35 | spr | Pretty nifty |
| 19:40.59 | *** join/#utah elg (i=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 19:41.23 | DV8 | Urquhart wants to cut funding to schools just like Leavitt did http://steveu.com/blog/ |
| 19:41.24 | brac | [Steve Urquhart] |
| 19:43.36 | DV8 | Jayce^, oh no.. you guys control everything around here |
| 19:43.52 | DV8 | it's pre-ordained |
| 19:44.15 | Jayce^ | fore.... |
| 19:45.15 | Bradipo | DV8: What's wrong with cutting funding to schools? Will it decrease my taxes and allow me to spend it on a school of my choosing instead? |
| 19:45.30 | graphyx | spr: I want one.. |
| 19:45.57 | Tene | Bradipo: what about people that don't earn enough to be able to pay for a school even with decreated taxes? |
| 19:46.09 | graphyx | Tene: two words: School vouchers. |
| 19:46.15 | maquis | DV8: in my experience, a lot of schools spend their money in the wrong places, and end up just costing more money, and the students don't get anything extra for the higher taxes... |
| 19:46.16 | Jayce^ | Bradipo, dont' you get it, we must all attend a single state sponsored school, with one approved curriculum... the entire thing should then target the LCD, so nobody's feelings get hurt |
| 19:46.32 | Tene | Exactly! |
| 19:46.39 | DV8 | Bush's tax cut saved him $3k on an income of $500k.. that was dam charitable of him |
| 19:46.39 | maquis | case in point, the local high school in my area kept making a point about how all the students were in trailers because there weren't enough classrooms |
| 19:46.46 | Bradipo | Tene: Private charities which provide low-cost schooling. Heck, even competition would bring in low cost schooling. |
| 19:46.49 | Jayce^ | ~lart self-esteem |
| 19:46.56 | maquis | so, they raised taxes, and built an olympic-size swimming pool |
| 19:47.03 | maquis | students are still in trailers for classes |
| 19:47.14 | DV8 | we don't want anyone to learn a real science that refutes a lot of religious superstition |
| 19:47.35 | Jayce^ | maquis, yeah, doesn't matter what state your in, the company that makes 'portables' has quite the racket |
| 19:47.50 | graphyx | You don't need fancy text books, expensive computers, THX certified AV equipment to teach. |
| 19:47.51 | Jayce^ | DV8, and we'd better not let them have any say in the matter |
| 19:48.05 | DV8 | them? |
| 19:48.11 | DV8 | tinfoil hat time? |
| 19:48.14 | graphyx | Just teachers and parents who work together to teach the children in the most efficient manner. |
| 19:48.18 | Jayce^ | the same people you were mentioning |
| 19:48.21 | tensai | graphyx: no, no. every 6 year-old needs their own laptop |
| 19:48.37 | Jayce^ | ~lart the prussian education model |
| 19:48.38 | elg | tensai: my one year old sure does |
| 19:48.41 | DV8 | Jayce^, so you believe God had sex with Mary? |
| 19:48.43 | elg | so he'll leave mine alone. :) |
| 19:49.06 | Jayce^ | DV8, and this has *any* bearing on the current topic? |
| 19:49.10 | DV8 | and the whole universe was created in 7 literal days |
| 19:49.23 | maquis | DV8: do you have a point in anything you're saying? because if so, i'm completely missing it |
| 19:49.24 | tensai | elg: I'm sure my kids would make use of their own computers, but I'm not sure that's the best idea |
| 19:49.33 | tensai | ~troll DV8 |
| 19:49.37 | ibot | ACTION hereby declares DV8 a troll |
| 19:49.37 | elg | well I was thinking more of a play laptop |
| 19:50.02 | tensai | elg: they catch on too quickly |
| 19:50.54 | elg | guess I"ll have to settle with teaching him to not play with it |
| 19:51.24 | tensai | elg: did you ever try out colorclick and slideshow? |
| 19:51.52 | DV8 | time for another witch hunt and name calling |
| 19:52.50 | sjansen | graphyx, Bradipo: two words, "yeah right" |
| 19:52.56 | Jayce^ | ah yes, pity party for poor bucky |
| 19:53.00 | DV8 | you're all nice church going Anti-Christs with a White Nazi Jesus.. there, we're even now |
| 19:53.37 | elg | tensai: yeah, colorclick is a family favorite |
| 19:53.54 | elg | haven't tried running it on my laptop |
| 19:53.56 | Bradipo | sjansen: I'm not at all for vouchers... |
| 19:54.29 | Bradipo | And I certainly believe that the textbooks should be the best, and what good is an education without computers these days? |
| 19:54.29 | sjansen | Bradipo: You seem to all for abandoning the less advantaged so that you have an assured supply of fry cooks. |
| 19:55.46 | Bradipo | sjansen: No. |
| 19:56.18 | Bradipo | And if you want to talk about abandoning the less advantaged, all you have to do is look at the public education system that places children into classes... |
| 19:56.29 | Bradipo | I'm not talking classrooms, I'm talking A, B, C, D, E and F. |
| 19:56.40 | *** part/#utah DV8 (n=bucky@65-37-78-90.bras01.mob.ut.frontiernet.net) |
| 19:56.42 | Bradipo | If you are in the F class, where do you think you will go in life? |
| 19:56.45 | elg | hey, don't forget cooks that make desserts |
| 19:56.45 | elg | elg: the problem with colorclick (and his favorite pastime, playing the keyboard) is that it's too high for him and he's not yet reliable on the spinning office chair |
| 19:56.45 | elg | so it takes "sit on my lap" time to use it, which doesn't really help the laptop problem. |
| 19:56.53 | elg | oh, bored him to tears |
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| 19:57.03 | sjansen | For the lazy: /ignore DV8!*@* |
| 19:57.04 | elg | France? |
| 19:57.27 | elg | Fran San Hisco? |
| 19:57.46 | elg | jeb: ping |
| 19:58.34 | tensai | sjansen: well sure, but how many names can he come up with? clearly he chose a new one to evade the filters already in place. |
| 19:59.19 | elg | i think it's more productive to relish the victory of boring a troll |
| 19:59.23 | elg | that takes discipline |
| 20:00.23 | sjansen | tensai: *shrug* It'll take him more typing to identify himself than for me to /ignore him. That's an arms race I don't mind. |
| 20:01.25 | sjansen | And by "identify himself" I mean act like an idiot. |
| 20:01.43 | Jayce^ | meh, we'll just kick him via his isp again next time... let him change that again |
| 20:04.19 | sjansen | I'd filter on the bucky@ first, if possible. Be a shame to catch neighbors in the cross fire. |
| 20:07.51 | jeb | elg: ping |
| 20:08.01 | elg | #wencor |
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| 20:34.03 | *** join/#utah xbmodder (n=xbmodder@dsl092-012-130.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 20:34.07 | xbmodder | hey |
| 20:34.11 | xbmodder | sup guys |
| 20:36.25 | elg | blue skies... nothing but blue skies... |
| 20:37.17 | Bradipo | From: http://www.mises.org/journals/jls/19_2/19_2_5.pdf |
| 20:37.49 | Bradipo | ``Society benefits from education, therefore government must provide it.'' |
| 20:38.05 | Bradipo | This is argued to be a non sequitur. |
| 20:39.04 | Bradipo | ``Using the same logic---society benefits from food and housing, therefore government must provide them---then it must follow that everything that benefits society must be provided by the government.'' |
| 20:39.41 | JoshH | Bradipo: some people do believe that ;) |
| 20:40.14 | Bradipo | JoshH: You know, I don't have a problem with them believing it, nor even implementing it, as long as they don't force those who don't believe in it to participate. |
| 20:40.36 | JoshH | ya, communism is fine as long as its restricted to a voluntary commune |
| 20:55.08 | *** join/#utah ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 20:55.08 | *** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, uphpu.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com. See planetutah.adelantellc.com for aggregate feeds --- Jeff Waugh will be speaking at BYU on Nov 15: save the date! (more info will be forthcoming) |
| 20:55.08 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 20:59.27 | sjansen | So etch is targetted to arrive Dec. 2006... everyone who believes Debian can pull off a 1.5 year turn around raise your hand. |
| 21:00.03 | levi | http://wigflip.com/ds/text?pl=zv7z-N3bOrHgysna&color=%23355e76 |
| 21:01.16 | sjansen | heh |
| 21:02.41 | levi | You can make your own quotes! |
| 21:02.46 | levi | And it's powered by Lisp! |
| 21:02.49 | JoshH | sjansen: i think they meant 2009 |
| 21:03.26 | sjansen | levi: I saw that. Then I read the quote and realized I wasn't any wittier so I did nothing. |
| 21:10.34 | *** join/#utah adminsmurf (n=ndhanks@smurf.geneva.com) |
| 21:13.35 | adminsmurf | I need a quick way to rotate tiff's 180, any ideas |
| 21:13.49 | maquis | adminsmurf: does imagemagick do it? |
| 21:14.01 | Jayce^ | convert (imagemagick |
| 21:14.07 | sjansen | ) |
| 21:14.18 | Jayce^ | typing in too many windows at once |
| 21:14.32 | sjansen | too many windows typing at once |
| 21:15.19 | adminsmurf | I have a few hunderd images to do |
| 21:16.27 | adminsmurf | looks like it should work |
| 21:16.33 | Jayce^ | shoudl be perfect |
| 21:23.44 | graphyx | so jsmith What do you think is the largest security hole for Asterisk ? |
| 21:25.22 | jsmith | graphyx: Ctrl-Alt-F9 |
| 21:26.18 | jsmith | (That's not meant to be a cryptic answer) |
| 21:27.32 | elg | jsmith: but that's only with the abominable start_asterisk script right? |
| 21:27.38 | jsmith | graphyx: Or, let me be more specific -- Ctrl-Alt-F9, and the exclamation mark :-) |
| 21:27.49 | jsmith | elg: Ding! Ding! Ding! Give this man a prize! |
| 21:27.56 | jsmith | ~award elg |
| 21:28.41 | elg | graphyx: you should read the SECURITY file in the asterisk distribution too |
| 21:28.56 | levi | Yow, this bot used up a TON of bandwidth: http://www.omni-explorer.com/ |
| 21:28.57 | brac | [Omni-Explorer] |
| 21:30.01 | elg | jsmith: for my prize, I'll take second-hand digium hardware... |
| 21:30.07 | jsmith | graphyx: Besides the stupid safe_asterisk startup script, the biggest security hole is stupid people letting smart people use their systems to call expensive numbers (900 numbers, international calls) for free. |
| 21:30.18 | jsmith | elg: I've got an X100P :-) |
| 21:30.35 | jsmith | I'd sell you my T100P though :-) |
| 21:30.47 | *** join/#utah nobell (n=Jared@160.7.249.18) |
| 21:30.51 | elg | hmm, might be fun to do some comparisons with the x100p and the generic wildcard clone I got |
| 21:31.00 | nobell | jsmith: you there? |
| 21:31.14 | levi | My poor computer started overheating this morning while it was crawling my entire site. |
| 21:31.26 | jsmith | nobell: Yup! |
| 21:32.08 | nobell | right on! I'm working on setting up our dialplan for NO MORE Mortage. |
| 21:32.40 | jsmith | nobell: See that little tab that says "jsmith" on it :-) Click on it :-) |
| 21:36.24 | levi | Man, this is /not/ a friendly bot. |
| 21:36.43 | maquis | levi: what bot? |
| 21:36.47 | maquis | who wans't friendly? |
| 21:37.10 | levi | ~urls |
| 21:37.18 | elg | -urls |
| 21:37.18 | brac | [2005/10/25 15:28:56] <levi> http://www.omni-explorer.com/ |
| 21:37.18 | brac | [2005/10/25 15:00:04] <levi> http://wigflip.com/ds/text?pl=zv7z-N3bOrHgysna&color=%23355e76 |
| 21:37.18 | brac | [2005/10/25 14:37:19] <Bradipo> http://www.mises.org/journals/jls/19_2/19_2_5.pdf |
| 21:37.18 | brac | [2005/10/25 13:41:24] <DV8> http://steveu.com/blog/ |
| 21:37.28 | levi | The top one there. |
| 21:38.20 | levi | It hit me for 15503 pages all in quick succession, for a total bandwidth of about 260Mb. |
| 21:39.13 | elg | yikes |
| 21:39.27 | elg | what are they trying to do anyway? |
| 21:39.35 | elg | kind of late to be entering the search engine arena |
| 21:39.42 | levi | No kidding. |
| 21:40.05 | Bradipo | elg: Unless of course they have some new feature that others don't that will improve the expierience or results... |
| 21:40.26 | elg | like a swarm of crawlers? |
| 21:40.28 | levi | It kept crawling around Drupal's URL space. |
| 21:41.03 | levi | Leading to bizarre stuff like: GET /drupal/node/taxonomy/term/7/all/taxonomy/term/26 |
| 21:41.57 | sjansen | levi: I'd send them an angry email then report them to "knuckles & jimmy" for a good see-ing to. |
| 21:42.13 | levi | And GET /drupal/comment/reply/node/weblink/goto/180 |
| 21:45.24 | levi | If they can't write a well-behaved bot, I can't imagine they're going to out-do google. |
| 21:47.05 | elg | levi: but they are venture-abcked! and in Silicon VAlley |
| 21:48.07 | levi | Cool, some legitimate people wandered around my Lisp blog today. |
| 21:49.02 | elg | but were they from silicon valley |
| 21:49.10 | levi | Nope. San Antonio. |
| 21:49.32 | elg | well not everyone can be from not texas |
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| 22:07.12 | mheath | levi: how long ago this? |
| 22:07.20 | levi | mheath: This morning. |
| 22:07.28 | mheath | "We know some of you got hit by an earlier version of our crawler that was particularly...well, hungry" |
| 22:07.29 | mheath | Ah |
| 22:07.37 | mheath | Apparently, it's still particularly hungry. |
| 22:07.48 | levi | Indeed. |
| 22:09.17 | levi | Hmm, the supposed real browser from TX was really some sort of bot that doesn't identify itself as such. |
| 22:09.44 | jsmith | levi: What, it read robots.txt? :-) |
| 22:10.33 | levi | No, it just looks like a crawler from its pattern. It hits from a bunch of ips from the same range, like it's on a server farm. |
| 22:10.49 | levi | And it never downloads images. |
| 22:15.33 | *** join/#utah ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 22:15.33 | *** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, uphpu.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com. See planetutah.adelantellc.com for aggregate feeds --- Jeff Waugh will be speaking at BYU on Nov 15: save the date! (more info will be forthcoming) |
| 22:15.33 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 22:16.24 | sjansen | mheath: A smile is just a frown turned upside down... so try doing your homework while standing on your head. |
| 22:17.19 | levi | You'll be even more miserable, but onlookers may be fooled into thinking you're smiling! |
| 22:19.42 | jsmith | maquis: Is that like trying to gargle peanut butter while standing on your head? |
| 22:20.42 | levi | Perhaps really oily peanut butter. |
| 22:21.22 | levi | mheath: Yes, such things are inherently wrong; attempting to right one would be a waste of effort! ;) |
| 22:23.37 | mheath | ~lart Eclipse |
| 22:24.05 | levi | You don't like Eclipse? |
| 22:24.06 | mheath | I have a method that either returns a java.sql.Connection, or the program exits |
| 22:24.36 | mheath | Yet, Eclipse seems to think that theres a possibility the method wouldn't return a Connection object |
| 22:24.41 | mheath | so it complains about it |
| 22:26.07 | mheath | /This will never be reached, but |
| 22:26.12 | mheath | /Eclipse is being particularly annoying |
| 22:26.18 | mheath | /And desperately wanting this here |
| 22:26.22 | mheath | return null; |
| 22:27.10 | levi | Well, if Eclipse complains, chances are javac would too. |
| 22:27.53 | mheath | Well, the problem is, the "return connection" is within a try { } |
| 22:28.07 | mheath | All applicable catch (...) { } 's will exit the program |
| 22:28.25 | mheath | So either a connection will be returned, or the program will exit |
| 22:29.01 | {-} | There we go. |
| 22:29.09 | mheath | Obviously, though, it doesn't know that System.exit() quits the program |
| 22:29.30 | mheath | So it thinks theres a *possibility* this thing doesn't return anything |
| 22:30.12 | {-} | System.exit(); return NULL; // I know. Blame Eclipse. |
| 22:30.40 | mheath | {-}: exactly :P |
| 22:31.28 | tensai | {-}: s/NULL/null/ |
| 22:31.46 | mheath | Can anyone answer a simple MySQL question? |
| 22:32.06 | mheath | I have a statement like: |
| 22:33.05 | mheath | "SELECT YEAR MONTH DAY TIME MAKE LICENSE VIOLATION VIOLATIONO ADMINISTRATOR DECAL FROM BHSTICKETS ORDER BY _________" |
| 22:33.39 | mheath | What would I put in ___________ to have it organize by YEAR, and subordinately to that, by MONTH, and subordinately to that, by DAY? (essentially, organize by the complete date) |
| 22:33.50 | maquis | mheath: why ya gotta be so loud??? |
| 22:34.02 | tensai | mheath: order by year, month, day, time |
| 22:34.24 | tensai | mheath: also, don't forget the commas between the rows you're selecting |
| 22:36.21 | mheath | tensai: I'm not sure it has commas. Keep in mind this is MySQL-via-JDBC so it has a messed up mix-of-SQLs syntax |
| 22:36.39 | mheath | At least, I don't remember the tutorial I was looking at using commas |
| 22:37.38 | tensai | well, I do remember always using commas when using JDBC |
| 22:38.11 | mheath | Anyway, doesn't matter, because I just realized I can use SELECT * FROM BHSTickets |
| 22:38.54 | tensai | it's not a bad idea to enumerate your columns. protects you from future schema additions. |
| 22:39.17 | mheath | tensai: the way the rest of this is coded, that wouldn't matter |
| 22:39.24 | mheath | (besides, this is a simple homework assignment) |
| 22:41.55 | mheath | tensai: so, this would work? : |
| 22:42.05 | mheath | SELECT * FROM BHSTICKETS ORDER BY YEAR MONTH DAY TIME |
| 22:42.18 | mheath | (assuming that year month day and time are numbers) |
| 22:43.26 | tensai | mheath: no, you, need, commas |
| 22:43.30 | tensai | select * from bhstickets order by year, month, day, time |
| 22:44.05 | *** join/#utah spr (n=spr@c-24-10-236-93.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 22:44.07 | mheath | tensai: and then that should work, for JDBC? |
| 22:44.12 | tensai | yes |
| 22:44.20 | mheath | tensai: thanks! |
| 22:54.49 | mheath | Hmmm |
| 22:54.56 | mheath | How do you sort by a string, alphabetically? |
| 23:00.10 | *** join/#utah hans (n=fugalh@dhcp20.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 23:00.30 | mheath | Nevermind. |
| 23:11.05 | maquis | http://www.wkyt.com/Global/story.asp?S=4019597 |
| 23:11.07 | brac | [WKYT 27 NEWSFIRST & WYMT Mountain News - Kentucky lands grant to protect bingo halls from terrorists] |
| 23:11.14 | maquis | crazy |
| 23:13.40 | *** join/#utah ECS (n=ecs@128.187.238.136) |
| 23:13.49 | ECS | ~lart maquis |
| 23:13.56 | maquis | -lart ECS |
| 23:17.10 | maquis | i saw an article today that claims that the FBI has been abusing the Patriot Act for more than 5 years now |
| 23:17.32 | maquis | leaving aside everyone's personal views on the patriot act, i find it really interesting that the FBI was abusing the act before it existed |
| 23:20.19 | sjansen | ~abuse maquis |
| 23:20.22 | ibot | ACTION smacks maquis across the face. "Take that, sucker!" |
| 23:20.30 | maquis | ~torture sjansen |
| 23:20.32 | ibot | ACTION forces sjansen to support Debian GNU/Hurd in production. |
| 23:22.10 | *** join/#utah hans (n=fugalh@dhcp20.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 23:24.00 | *** join/#utah xbmodder_lappy (i=nobody@xbmodder.us) |
| 23:32.13 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@hfugal.NMSU.Edu) |
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| 23:59.21 | xbmodder_lappy | lets have a poll: nano vs pico vs ed vs joe vs vi vs emac! |