| 00:02.32 | Bradipo | Why don't you use getcwd(3) to find out. :-) |
| 00:02.53 | maquis | Bradipo: cuz i didn't know about that one :) |
| 00:03.07 | maquis | Bradipo: is that the way to do what i want? |
| 00:03.20 | Bradipo | There are also chdir and fchdir... |
| 00:03.25 | maquis | (i did mention that it was probably a stupid question) |
| 00:03.45 | Bradipo | I always think it is best to specify an absolute path, or at least ``know'' what directory you are in by using chdir. |
| 00:04.14 | maquis | Bradipo: speaking of the /proc way to get the current directory, does getcwd look there to get it? |
| 00:04.16 | Bradipo | But generally, I believe fopen will search the current directory unless you specify an absolute path. |
| 00:04.22 | Bradipo | I don't think I would use /proc... |
| 00:04.47 | Bradipo | And I'm not sure if getcwd uses it, (most likely not). |
| 00:04.52 | maquis | my friend and i were wondering what would happen *if* somehow someone managed to change the path in /proc to something else (ie, whether it would break things) |
| 00:05.10 | maquis | (ok... we tried to do it... but it wouldn't let us...) |
| 00:05.22 | Bradipo | Tried to do what? Use /proc? |
| 00:05.47 | maquis | tried to change the value for the cwd of a running process in /proc |
| 00:06.29 | Bradipo | Well, as long as you own the process you should be able to do that (at least at one time you could). |
| 00:06.31 | maquis | i think it was vim we were using... we had opened a file in the cwd in vim, and were curious whether changing the cwd would cause the file to be saved to the wrong place |
| 00:07.02 | maquis | Bradipo: for some reason, it still wouldn't let us... tried the chmod it, and it wouldn't let us do that either... |
| 00:07.38 | Bradipo | Well, I don't think modifying directories in /proc works. |
| 00:07.42 | maquis | (and i wonder why things break on my system so often) |
| 00:07.46 | Bradipo | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:07.50 | maquis | yeah |
| 00:08.00 | maquis | i think that's why it wouldn't let us modify things... |
| 00:10.25 | Bradipo | Anyway, fopen should open a file in your cwd unless you specify absolute path or use chdir to change it. |
| 00:10.46 | maquis | mmk |
| 00:10.50 | maquis | cool stuff |
| 00:10.52 | maquis | thanks for the help |
| 00:10.55 | maquis | how are you, btw? |
| 00:37.06 | *** join/#utah xbmodder_lappy (i=nobody@xbmodder.us) |
| 00:37.08 | xbmodder_lappy | hey |
| 00:37.10 | xbmodder_lappy | sup? |
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| 01:39.51 | ScytheBlade1 | hmm, anyone messed with ethernet bridging? |
| 01:40.56 | mheath | I'm thinking of creating a GNU software distribution similar to the Slackware GNU/Linux Software Distribution |
| 01:45.35 | ScytheBlade1 | never mind, I got it working |
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| 01:52.25 | mheath | Not a big project |
| 01:52.34 | mheath | just a system thats more usable than this damn debian =\ |
| 01:54.15 | xbmodder_lappy | ScytheBlade1, where is that thing -- with the SBC |
| 01:55.36 | ScytheBlade1 | hmm? |
| 01:55.40 | ScytheBlade1 | what thing? |
| 01:57.43 | emcnabb | mheath, that sounds like a lot of work? |
| 01:57.49 | emcnabb | (sorry, that was a statement) |
| 01:58.16 | mheath | emcnabb: meh, not really |
| 01:58.43 | mheath | I'm not going to make anything as complete or bug-tested-before-released (or even released, probably) as slackware |
| 01:58.51 | mheath | it would just be a GNU system that is slackware-ish. |
| 01:59.44 | levi | mheath: Dude, go find a math book. |
| 02:00.30 | mheath | levi: meh, I'm fine as far as math now |
| 02:00.32 | mheath | kinda |
| 02:00.58 | levi | You suddenly figured out how to do all the assignments you were complaining about not knowing how to do last time? |
| 02:01.47 | mheath | I went in, talked to the teacher, and got some help, and I'm doing a lot better now. |
| 02:01.55 | levi | Ahh, good! |
| 02:02.36 | emcnabb | mheath, so what is going to be different about your distro? |
| 02:03.14 | levi | emcnabb: It's going to be HURD instead of Linux. |
| 02:03.15 | mheath | emcnabb: It's not debian :P |
| 02:04.22 | JoshH | heh, at least youre ambitious |
| 02:04.38 | emcnabb | I mean, there are hundreds of distros out there. What will make yours any different? |
| 02:05.35 | mheath | emcnabb: It'll be the better one of two GNU software distributions. |
| 02:06.11 | ScytheBlade1 | That's a rather bold statement, heh |
| 02:06.38 | mheath | ScytheBlade1: Meh, you'd agree if you'd tolerated Debian GNU :P |
| 02:06.54 | ScytheBlade1 | It's just a huge project is all |
| 02:06.57 | ScytheBlade1 | Like, HUGE :P |
| 02:07.36 | emcnabb | I have a lot of gripes about Debian (and most distros), but I don't think I'd be able to do much of a better job |
| 02:08.32 | mheath | ScytheBlade1: It'll take me about 10 minutes (minus compile time, this is a slower system, and I am compiling glibc and gcc afterall) to get a bootable system :) |
| 02:08.41 | ScytheBlade1 | a bootable system is one thing |
| 02:08.44 | ScytheBlade1 | a distro is another |
| 02:08.57 | mheath | Then the slackware pkgtools will work perfectly on it |
| 02:09.09 | ScytheBlade1 | .... |
| 02:09.12 | mheath | as will 90% of the slackbuild scripts |
| 02:09.27 | ScytheBlade1 | so it's a hand-built gcc/glibc + pkgtools? |
| 02:09.34 | emcnabb | what's your new distro going be called? |
| 02:09.43 | emcnabb | GNU/Heathix? |
| 02:10.09 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 02:10.38 | emcnabb | of course, when I first glance at the word "Heathix" it looks like "Heather", so maybe that |
| 02:10.42 | emcnabb | s not the best choice |
| 02:10.54 | mheath | ScytheBlade1: no. Handbuilt GCC/Glibc/rest of toolchain + bash + couple other utils, reboot into bootable system, slightly modify slackware slackbuild scripts for gcc/glibc/rest of toolchain |
| 02:11.10 | mheath | After that, all the slackbuild scripts for a large number of the slackware packages should work fine |
| 02:11.58 | ScytheBlade1 | note that I've never used debian/slackware |
| 02:12.02 | ScytheBlade1 | but what's so different about that? |
| 02:12.21 | emcnabb | mheath, can I be the first one to try it out? |
| 02:12.50 | emcnabb | I'd go down in history as the second GNU/Heathix user ever (after you that is) |
| 02:13.43 | mheath | emcnabb (thanks for the sarcasm), and ScytheBlade1.......you ARE both aware that I'm talking about porting slackware-like packages to a completely different OS, right? |
| 02:13.59 | mheath | And not just creating some horrible clone of Slackware |
| 02:14.23 | emcnabb | so is it going to run the HURD? |
| 02:14.32 | mheath | emcnabb: Yes. |
| 02:14.45 | emcnabb | I never did get the HURD to boot that night |
| 02:14.45 | ScytheBlade1 | Yeah, I see that |
| 02:14.52 | emcnabb | I should probably try again sometime |
| 02:15.05 | mheath | emcnabb: O.o it's easy to get the hurd to boot |
| 02:15.35 | emcnabb | hum. I just followed the instructions I was given |
| 02:15.58 | mheath | emcnabb: you were installing debian gnu/hurd, right? |
| 02:15.59 | maquis | emcnabb: guess you're just not smart enough :-P |
| 02:16.08 | emcnabb | mheath, yes |
| 02:16.11 | mheath | were you using one of the k* ISO installers? |
| 02:16.36 | mheath | or using the Create a new Partition in Linux / Extract the base tarball in there / boot into it method? |
| 02:16.40 | emcnabb | mheath, if I remember correctly, I installed the plain tarballs |
| 02:16.47 | emcnabb | it was a while back |
| 02:17.42 | graphyx | Ok I dove into python today. |
| 02:17.47 | graphyx | And I think I like it. |
| 02:19.48 | JoshH | ~lart graphyx |
| 02:21.16 | graphyx | But don't think that means I am going to give up on my perl... |
| 02:21.55 | JoshH | heh, if you did that you would be banned from this channel as an outcast |
| 02:22.13 | maquis | -lart JoshH |
| 02:22.28 | emcnabb | mheath, maybe you could team up with xbmodder on your new distro; he seems to be bored in his classes, I'm sure he'd have a lot of spare time to help |
| 02:23.11 | mheath | emcnabb: did you not understand the point where I explained that this is a simple project, that will take me all of one night to get pretty much done with? |
| 02:23.52 | JoshH | what specifically do you not like about debian |
| 02:24.09 | mheath | I'm not releasing a distro, I'm modifying slightly and using several of slackware package building scripts for my GNU system |
| 02:25.01 | emcnabb | why stop after one night if you have a good thing going? |
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| 02:25.43 | SpecialK | ~lart maquis |
| 02:25.48 | mheath | emcnabb: why are you so insistant on being such a sarcastically annoying prat? |
| 02:26.18 | emcnabb | I'm just giving back to the community... |
| 02:26.35 | JoshH | yay, a fight |
| 02:27.56 | maquis | *fight* *fight* *fight* |
| 02:27.58 | emcnabb | ~grouphug |
| 02:28.00 | ibot | ACTION hugs everybody and makes it ALL better. Now STFU, bitches! |
| 02:28.06 | emcnabb | I love you ibot |
| 02:28.10 | maquis | ~language ibot |
| 02:28.11 | ibot | ACTION grabs ibot by the ear and washes ibot's mouth out with soap |
| 02:30.45 | SpecialK | I have a friend named pratt. It doesn't work too well on him. |
| 02:33.44 | *** join/#utah decriptor (n=decripto@sshaw.ftth.xmission.com) |
| 02:33.57 | mheath | No, no.. I don't think so |
| 02:34.09 | decriptor | I need some c++ help anyone around that can help figure out function pointers |
| 02:34.13 | mheath | I would never take Pratt/Brac's name in vain ;) |
| 02:34.31 | byronc | decriptor: what's the problem? |
| 02:34.47 | decriptor | how would I call it in my test file |
| 02:34.56 | decriptor | slist->traverse(print_value); ???? |
| 02:35.11 | decriptor | print_value is basically the print function |
| 02:35.28 | decriptor | void SLList< S >::traverse(void(*visit)( S & )) |
| 02:35.28 | decriptor | { |
| 02:35.28 | decriptor | set_position( 0 ); |
| 02:35.28 | decriptor | for( int i = 0; i < list_size; i++ ) |
| 02:35.28 | decriptor | { |
| 02:35.30 | decriptor | (*visit)( cur_pos->entry ); |
| 02:35.31 | decriptor | } |
| 02:35.37 | decriptor | } |
| 02:35.55 | decriptor | Sorry for the code dump |
| 02:38.17 | maquis | decriptor: i'd be glad to help... i'm just not quite sure what you're trying to do (or if i know how to do what you're trying to do) |
| 02:38.18 | byronc | decriptor: visit(cur_pos->entry) |
| 02:38.37 | decriptor | I'm trying to use function pointers |
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| 02:39.02 | byronc | decriptor: if print_value is defined in the class you'll need to make it static |
| 02:39.06 | decriptor | basically I have to create a list and then traverse through it and print the values out |
| 02:39.53 | maquis | they just haven't been important enough yet to get the urgency needed ofr me to figure them out |
| 02:40.03 | byronc | decriptor: I hope there's a good reason you are writing your own container instead of using std::list |
| 02:40.28 | decriptor | :( school asignment |
| 02:40.37 | decriptor | I'm not that bored |
| 02:40.57 | maquis | decriptor: byronc just knows that some of us do that type of thing when we don't know that the original exists :) |
| 02:41.14 | byronc | decriptor: ok, well it's almost right, just change (*visit)( cur_pos->entry ) to visit(cur_pos->entry) |
| 02:41.18 | decriptor | on the assignment it states not STL :( |
| 02:41.24 | mheath | maquis: stick to a language that handles them automatically and simply, then ( like java) :) |
| 02:41.35 | maquis | decriptor: what class? |
| 02:41.40 | maquis | mheath: i don't like java, though |
| 02:41.44 | decriptor | data structures |
| 02:42.10 | mheath | I used to hate java |
| 02:42.13 | mheath | but it's grown on me |
| 02:42.16 | graphyx | maquis: about ibot's language wouldn't a redifition of the offending phrase be more effective? |
| 02:42.38 | graphyx | s/redifition/definition |
| 02:42.40 | maquis | graphyx: true |
| 02:43.42 | maquis | ~grouphug |
| 02:43.44 | ibot | ACTION hugs everbody and makes it all better... |
| 02:48.43 | mheath | WOW |
| 02:48.58 | mheath | A stroke of brilliance I would have never thought possible from them! |
| 02:49.20 | maquis | ?? |
| 02:50.01 | mheath | Just got an e-mail with a bit of code that they were working on in class, when I wasn't there today |
| 02:50.31 | mheath | Actually kinda surprised me |
| 02:50.34 | mheath | they did a decent job |
| 02:52.12 | hans | maquis: wish no more, just learn! |
| 02:52.44 | maquis | hans: i've had it explained to me a few times.... |
| 02:52.48 | maquis | it just hasn't clicked yet |
| 02:52.52 | hans | maquis: my OS prof this semester has said a couple of times that function pointers are something that many CS undergrads never even know existed, so you're ahead of the curve. :) |
| 02:53.08 | hans | maquis: well the concept is simple enough, but I assume you have that part down. |
| 02:53.11 | maquis | hans: it's nice to be ahead of the curve on occasion... |
| 02:53.14 | hans | I always have to look up the syntax |
| 02:53.26 | maquis | hans: yeah... i understand the concept... but the syntax has never quite made sense |
| 02:53.37 | maquis | and if i see it written, it makes me take a while to figure out what's going on |
| 02:53.45 | hans | http://www.newty.de/fpt/index.html |
| 02:53.46 | brac | [The Function Pointer Tutorials - Index] |
| 02:53.58 | hans | no, the syntax never does make sense |
| 02:54.31 | hans | basically you have to associate "impossibly weird what-in-the-heck" syntax with function pointers, and look it up when you go the other way. :) |
| 02:55.06 | maquis | ok... |
| 02:55.10 | hans | while you're in C obscurities, check out what static means on variables in C source files. |
| 02:55.11 | maquis | that kinda makes sense |
| 02:55.26 | maquis | scheme makes that easy (it's one of a small number of things taht makes a lot of sense in scheme) |
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| 03:00.27 | xbmodder_lappy | I liked Slashdot before the CSS |
| 03:04.31 | levi | maquis: All of Scheme makes a lot of sense, it's just a very different kind of sense that some of C makes. ;) |
| 03:05.10 | maquis | levi: maybe ... |
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| 03:06.21 | levi | maquis: The whole point of Scheme was to make sense of a particular way of looking at programming. |
| 03:06.47 | maquis | levi: iterating through a list still isn't that *logical* in scheme |
| 03:07.03 | maquis | if i want to iterate through a list, i don't want to have to use recursion |
| 03:07.37 | levi | maquis: It's very logical. Recursion is a more fundamental process in the Scheme programming model; you can implement iteration on top of it. |
| 03:07.53 | levi | maquis: There's some nice syntactic sugar for iteration, your book just doesn't use it. |
| 03:08.06 | maquis | levi: yeah... |
| 03:09.33 | levi | maquis: Your book eschews a lot of the syntactic sugar in Scheme in order to emphasize the fundamental model. |
| 03:10.06 | levi | maquis: Which may or may not be good pedagogical technique, but it's not really idiomatic Scheme when you're using Scheme for general programming. |
| 03:11.44 | maquis | yeah |
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| 03:31.18 | elg | sigh. the idiot clerk at blockbuster didn't take out the locking bar |
| 03:31.25 | elg | anyone know how to get it out? |
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| 03:33.12 | maquis | elg: yeah... sure... you just snuck it out, didn't you? :) |
| 03:33.33 | elg | if I had, i wouldn't be afraid of mutiliating the case. :) |
| 03:35.16 | maquis | i've waited for 3 or 4 minutes aleady |
| 03:35.20 | maquis | and it's still going |
| 03:35.36 | maquis | all it's inserting is a 2-word title |
| 03:35.44 | maquis | and a 2.5-line description |
| 03:36.07 | maquis | 27 words in the description |
| 03:40.33 | maquis | w00t! |
| 03:40.36 | maquis | it submitted! |
| 03:40.38 | maquis | finally! |
| 03:43.59 | ScytheBlade1 | heh |
| 03:44.02 | ScytheBlade1 | nanowrimo? |
| 03:44.12 | ScytheBlade1 | is that this month or next? |
| 03:44.22 | graphyx | I think it is just two metal pins on the upper and lower sections of the case to pull the latches back a bit. |
| 03:44.29 | graphyx | elg: ^^^^ |
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| 03:53.36 | goozbach | *sniff* that quit() message just cost me an entire day |
| 03:54.07 | goozbach | #idlerpg day that is |
| 03:54.25 | maquis | haha |
| 03:55.07 | goozbach | it's time to buy new pants |
| 03:55.15 | maquis | ??? |
| 03:55.18 | maquis | haha |
| 04:11.48 | maquis | ~nslookup slcff.com |
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| 04:22.56 | xbmodder_lappy | pubic hair, n.: |
| 04:22.57 | xbmodder_lappy | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:23.02 | xbmodder_lappy | oh crap |
| 04:23.14 | xbmodder_lappy | remind never to use fortune -o |
| 04:23.39 | xbmodder_lappy | ~clear |
| 04:26.50 | mheath | http://www.skyos.org/ |
| 04:26.52 | brac | [SkyOS -- Your PEACE-FULL future Operating System] |
| 04:26.53 | mheath | What is up with that? |
| 04:27.01 | mheath | We're not a *nix relative |
| 04:27.07 | mheath | (Then they show you a bunch of screenshots of it running made-for-*nix programs) |
| 04:27.12 | mheath | We don't use X, Xfree86, or its relative |
| 04:27.18 | mheath | (Then they show you a bunch of screenshots of it running made-for-X11 programs) |
| 04:28.12 | goozbach | mheath: "this is not the OS you are looking for" *waves hand* |
| 04:29.56 | mheath | I know its not |
| 04:30.06 | mheath | I stumbled on that site by accident, anyway |
| 04:30.45 | mheath | I was just curious how it pretends to be a Non-Unix, Non-X11 OS when it is obviously very UNIX and X11 compatible |
| 04:30.48 | mheath | *why it pretends |
| 04:31.55 | maquis | mheath: maybe it thinks that if it pretends that, the evilness that exists in lindon won't see it |
| 04:32.39 | mheath | "Hmm, strongest features... I think SkyOS doesn`t have features which hasn`t been seen before in another operating system. Also, I don`t want to say that some features are better then in another operating system. First I want to get a stable, wide supported operating system. Then I will try to optimize and implement better features." |
| 04:32.55 | mheath | -- Stunningly beautiful words from it's author, in an interview on osnews.com |
| 04:33.04 | maquis | haha |
| 04:34.44 | mheath | To summarize: It has absolutely no benefits, but support it and I might get unlazy enough to make it have some. |
| 04:35.10 | mheath | And, apparently he didn't get the memo saying that you should spellcheck interview replies before you submit them to a major site |
| 04:35.23 | goozbach | "You sir... are a quack!" |
| 04:35.45 | goozbach | --"I agree... blah blah blah... send me your money" |
| 04:36.26 | goozbach | I want to write a cool piece of software which changes the world in some small way. |
| 04:36.44 | goozbach | so I can beg for money and sound good doing it. |
| 04:37.35 | maquis | goozbach: you still off on tom lord? |
| 04:37.49 | mheath | that always cracks me up |
| 04:38.02 | mheath | "It takes a huge amount of effort to write this program! I need the money" |
| 04:40.05 | mheath | maquis: it "might someday be possible to use it as a realtime operating system" ! |
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| 05:02.03 | SpecialK | SLLUG is having a fragfest tomorrow? |
| 05:31.22 | tensai | so quiet in here. did everybody go to bed at a reasonable hour? |
| 05:31.38 | maquis | -lart tensai |
| 05:31.43 | maquis | nope |
| 05:31.49 | maquis | ~rlart |
| 05:34.09 | maquis | tensai: i'm sorry |
| 05:34.10 | maquis | how? |
| 05:35.17 | tensai | I sure wish I knew. it's almost like it got up and walked away |
| 05:35.33 | maquis | at work? |
| 05:35.40 | maquis | what type of mp3 player? |
| 05:35.42 | maquis | how big? |
| 05:35.48 | maquis | where was the last place you had it? |
| 05:36.15 | tensai | sometime between when I woke up and when I left for work it disappeared |
| 05:36.31 | tensai | it's a flash player |
| 05:37.36 | tensai | yay! my wife found it under the couch. I guess all I had to do was complain. |
| 05:41.30 | maquis | haha |
| 05:41.31 | SpecialK | that's simple |
| 05:46.50 | xbmodder_lappy | why does everybody think Digg is going to p0wn slaskdot? |
| 05:47.41 | xbmodder_lappy | tensai, maybe you were paying more attention to the mp3 player.... |
| 05:49.09 | tensai | next up, somebody help me put the baby to sleep |
| 05:49.56 | maquis | tensai: i wouldn't mind that |
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| 06:35.18 | *** join/#utah HotDude (n=HotDude@byu292796wks.byu.edu) |
| 06:35.40 | HotDude | hey all |
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| 14:07.24 | goozbach | http://www.livejournal.com/users/lordfunkenstein/99028.html |
| 14:07.26 | brac | [lordfunkenstein: Buttery Force] |
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| 14:12.05 | xbmodder_lappy | ~morning |
| 14:12.06 | ibot | Good morning! |
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| 15:21.23 | tensai | ~lart redhat's default .bash_logout and bash aliases |
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| 15:28.08 | xbmodder_ | hey |
| 15:28.12 | xbmodder_ | HEALTH CLASS SUCKS! |
| 15:28.29 | xbmodder_ | it boring as hell. |
| 15:28.34 | xbmodder_ | whats the point? |
| 15:30.08 | xbmodder_ | Once you pop you can't stop! |
| 15:30.19 | xbmodder_ | dun dun da da dun dun dadada! |
| 15:30.23 | xbmodder_ | tu tu tu |
| 15:30.30 | xbmodder_ | tun nanana! |
| 15:30.36 | xbmodder_ | WooT! |
| 15:30.46 | xbmodder_ | I bored am |
| 15:31.18 | neybar_work | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:32.38 | xbmodder_ | 06:31 <xbmodder> can we kill george bush? |
| 15:32.39 | xbmodder_ | 06:31 <smarterchild> I think we can kill george bus |
| 15:35.48 | tensai | an interesting aside, I just figured out last night that in xchat at least // will escape a / at the beginning of a line, like thus |
| 15:35.58 | tensai | /kick xbmodder_ for annoying neybar_work |
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| 15:56.03 | synic | anyone know of a good j2me jabber client? |
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| 16:06.22 | maquis | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:06.24 | maquis | oops |
| 16:06.27 | maquis | :) |
| 16:06.41 | maquis | tensai: that trick doesn't work on irssi |
| 16:12.42 | tensai | ~lart irssi |
| 16:12.49 | maquis | -lart tensai |
| 16:13.04 | *** join/#utah tensai_ (n=tensai@joanna.zmonkey.org) |
| 16:13.22 | maquis | ipes... |
| 16:13.24 | tensai_ | doesn't work from bitchx either :( |
| 16:13.26 | maquis | two tensais |
| 16:13.34 | tensai_ | tensai sugiru! |
| 16:13.40 | levi | Morning, folks. |
| 16:13.45 | maquis | levi: morning |
| 16:13.58 | graphyx | It's his EVIL_ twin. |
| 16:18.13 | tensai_ | \/kick maquis in the shins |
| 16:18.19 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@obelix.cs.byu.edu) |
| 16:18.22 | tensai_ | not quite the effect I was going for... |
| 16:18.34 | maquis | :) |
| 16:18.39 | maquis | -kick tensai |
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| 16:29.00 | maquis | i love how we don't actually cover things in this calass... |
| 16:29.16 | maquis | it's half an hour into class... and we've only talked about grad school applications so far |
| 16:29.28 | levi | Heh. |
| 16:29.37 | levi | maquis: It can't be worse than my OS class. |
| 16:29.46 | maquis | levi: i personally don't mind it |
| 16:29.58 | levi | maquis: We didn't do anything but completely change the syllabus every day for the first two weeks. |
| 16:30.39 | levi | I have to present half of the slides on Unix threads today. |
| 16:30.52 | levi | I am not very fond of Unix threads. |
| 16:31.23 | levi | Or of shared-state preemptive concurrency in general. |
| 16:31.32 | levi | It is evil! |
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| 16:33.04 | maquis | haha |
| 16:33.18 | maquis | oh... i guess we have to stop talking about hans now |
| 16:33.20 | hans | -lart vontrapp |
| 16:33.25 | hans | -lart maquis |
| 16:33.26 | levi | Unfortuntaely, we've had to introduce pthreads into my project at work. Couldn't find a way around it, due to broken kernel interfaces that require blocking syscalls instead of using file descriptors like a good unix api should. |
| 16:33.31 | maquis | -lart hans |
| 16:33.35 | maquis | ~mock hans |
| 16:33.37 | ibot | ACTION pulls hans's pants down and shows the world hans's pink spotted underwear |
| 16:34.21 | hans | levi, here's a fun question for you. |
| 16:35.13 | levi | And ordinarily I'd use multiple processes with named pipes or something, but due to a poor port of Linux, using multiple process is way too heavyweight for this platform. |
| 16:36.48 | *** join/#utah lukfugl (i=lukfugl@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 16:37.24 | maquis | ah... |
| 16:37.27 | maquis | too bad |
| 16:37.28 | levi | hans: What's the question? |
| 16:37.33 | maquis | he's starting class now |
| 16:37.56 | levi | maquis: We have to talk to seven i2c controllers simultaneously. |
| 16:38.09 | hans | levi: here's the gig. asterisk has these things called "applications" which are basically like function calls |
| 16:38.10 | maquis | levi: what's an i2c controller? |
| 16:38.32 | hans | except, they may decide not to return at all, but rather jump to another extension (or just plain not return) |
| 16:38.48 | levi | maquis: A hardware device that is supposed to make talking over an i2c (simple 2-line serial) bus easier. |
| 16:38.49 | hans | I want to bridge from asterisk to regular programs over a simple network api |
| 16:38.53 | hans | er, protocol |
| 16:39.13 | hans | but it occurs to me that this not-returning and/or jumping thing could be hard to implement in a network client |
| 16:39.38 | hans | what nifty tricks do you have that would help there? in lisp, but also in general |
| 16:41.27 | hans | (in particular, I'm interested in ruby, but I'm thinking general approaches at the moment) |
| 16:41.30 | levi | hans: I think I need to understand the model a bit more. At first glance, your description sounds like some form of continuations, but those may not actually be helpful in implementing something to deal with it. |
| 16:42.19 | levi | So, asterisk makes a call into an extension program. That program may choose to return, or it may call another extension, or something else entirely? How does asterisk generally deal with it? |
| 16:42.42 | hans | let me pastebin an example asterisk config. |
| 16:45.14 | levi | maquis: i2c controllers really do simplify things, because otherwise you have to worry about bit-banging, which requires strict timing control to work properly. But when your interface to an i2c controller blocks on a request waiting for a response... well, it's pretty stupid, and pretty much requires multiple threads if you've got multiple controlllers, because i2c and the devices on it aren't exactly fast. |
| 16:45.25 | hans | http://rafb.net/paste/results/nA6PRo94.html |
| 16:45.45 | hans | if an incoming call comes into context-a |
| 16:46.02 | maquis | levi: really basic question: what type of situation would you want to write to talk to an i2c controller in? ie, what would you be trying to do? |
| 16:46.12 | hans | goto is of course the simplest example there, but other 'applications' can do it as well. |
| 16:46.40 | levi | maquis: Probing a sensor chip on your motherboard is probably the one you'd run across most frequently. |
| 16:46.56 | levi | hans: So, goto is an 'application'? |
| 16:47.08 | hans | that's what they call those function-like things. it's just terminology |
| 16:47.22 | hans | every line is exten => extension,priority,appliction(application arguments) |
| 16:47.39 | hans | priority is the basic-like numbering thing which is the primary reason for trying to do Something ElseTM |
| 16:47.54 | levi | And all the extensions are implemented externally? |
| 16:47.58 | levi | Man, that is ugly. |
| 16:48.03 | hans | no kidding. :) |
| 16:48.20 | hans | you can define whatever extension you want - there are special ones |
| 16:48.27 | levi | A big flying WTF to whoever thought that up. |
| 16:48.43 | hans | levi: when you look at the code it's even less impressive |
| 16:48.47 | hans | the parser is a big joke |
| 16:48.58 | levi | It would have to be. |
| 16:49.23 | hans | well, you could parse it intelligently, but the parser is an even bigger hack than the format itself |
| 16:49.37 | levi | Someone with any experience at all in that sort of thing wouldn't have come up with such a brain-dead language. |
| 16:50.07 | hans | anyway, it's a module you can bypass altogether, luckily, but the idea of extensions and applications is internal |
| 16:50.33 | hans | asterisk does smart matching of extensions, so you can have an extension 6 and extension 666, and if you dial 6 it will wait a bit before deciding you meant 6.... |
| 16:50.51 | hans | which is nice |
| 16:51.33 | levi | Unless you have a 3-digit extension and you forget what the third digit is after dialing the first one or two... :) |
| 16:51.42 | levi | Anyway. |
| 16:51.48 | hans | anyway, I have to look at the guts a bit but I bet we can get rid of the priority notion altogether (or mask it) |
| 16:52.03 | hans | but you're still dealing with the (desired) ability to move to another extension at any time |
| 16:52.25 | levi | It sounds like you need the ability to call back into the application that called you. |
| 16:53.05 | hans | i don't follow |
| 16:54.24 | levi | Well, if A calls B, and B needs to call C instead of returning to A, you either need to transfer your connection to A to C, so A doesn't know the difference, or you need to tell A that it needs to call C instead. |
| 16:54.42 | levi | If I'm understanding what's going on correctly... |
| 16:54.42 | hans | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:54.55 | levi | Heh. |
| 16:55.26 | levi | I wonder if he was copying how things are done in some other braindead telephony app. |
| 16:55.54 | hans | brb |
| 16:56.10 | tensai | compared to traditional telelphony, what asterisk does is heaven |
| 16:58.47 | levi | I did some minimal administration on our telephone system back when I was sysadmin here, and it was indeed hell. Total piece of crap that ran a DOS program on NT 4, and was minimally flexible. |
| 16:59.02 | levi | It also had a tendency to crash. |
| 16:59.42 | Tene | Yay, crash! |
| 17:00.04 | levi | Fortunately that system did not come with us to the new office. |
| 17:00.26 | tensai | ~crash Tene |
| 17:00.29 | ibot | ACTION jams a stick in Tene's spokes |
| 17:00.36 | levi | We now have some Mitel IP phones. I don't know what the administration interface is, but they seem to have much fewer problems. |
| 17:01.01 | tensai | our phone system works reliably, but is still a bear to administer |
| 17:01.28 | tensai | the menu system is done through a freakish hack of voicemail. each menu is a voicemail box. |
| 17:01.57 | tensai | and it also is configured through a DOS program that is only "supported" on windows 95 |
| 17:04.09 | levi | Blech. |
| 17:04.19 | *** join/#utah adminsmurf (n=ndhanks@smurf.geneva.com) |
| 17:05.04 | adminsmurf | Does anybody have a script/progem to print directory trees? |
| 17:07.57 | goozbach | adminsmurf: there is a tool called tree |
| 17:08.06 | goozbach | there is also ls -R |
| 17:09.38 | Tene | or 'find .' |
| 17:09.50 | Tene | or if you just want directories, 'find. -type d' |
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| 17:14.21 | hans | levi: my last example wasn't very good, as it was arguably stupid in the context of what I'm trying to do. Observe this one: http://rafb.net/paste/results/cve7fC25.html |
| 17:14.34 | hans | -YO |
| 17:14.34 | brac | yo hans! |
| 17:14.38 | hans | http://rafb.net/paste/results/cve7fC25.html |
| 17:14.53 | hans | you crazy bot. |
| 17:15.24 | lukfugl | -YO? |
| 17:15.25 | brac | lukfugl: hey there |
| 17:15.40 | hans | lukfugl: he's supposd to see URLs and give us the <title> |
| 17:15.45 | hans | http://google.com |
| 17:15.46 | brac | [Google] |
| 17:15.51 | lukfugl | ah |
| 17:15.59 | lukfugl | well, the rafb.net link has no title... |
| 17:16.08 | hans | guess you're right |
| 17:16.15 | goozbach | that page has not title |
| 17:16.21 | goozbach | er no title |
| 17:16.27 | lukfugl | goozbach: speak good engrish |
| 17:16.32 | hans | i thought it would do [] in that case, but I guess I don't have that good of a memory |
| 17:17.25 | hans | levi: the underlying architecture of asterisk is sound, it's just the crazy extensions.conf format that has to go |
| 17:17.49 | levi | hans: OK, and what exactly are you trying to implement? Something to replace this entire thing? |
| 17:19.01 | hans | right, replace extensions.conf. it still has the concept of extensions and still uses the asterisk "applications" like Dial and GoTo (although you should probably be shot if you use GoTo), and background (which plays something and simultaneously listens for digits to be pressed, then jumps to another extension if they are) |
| 17:20.00 | levi | So, you need to retain the concept of priority level. |
| 17:20.28 | hans | no, I think that can go away. just the concept of extensions, and the fact that some important things like Dial will never return |
| 17:20.52 | hans | (we can indicate busy some other way than n+101) |
| 17:21.49 | hans | you can hand-wave and say "don't do that" for a lot of things, but there's nogetting around dial and the fact that it won't return in the normal case. |
| 17:22.07 | levi | So, dial is something you'll have to call from your extension? |
| 17:22.42 | hans | right. it's the manner of bridging e.g. from the pstn or voip provider to one of the sets |
| 17:22.56 | hans | or another voip call... it's the core of asterisk's strength |
| 17:22.56 | levi | I'm still not understanding which pieces are implemented where, and which you're trying to change. |
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| 17:23.52 | hans | ok, asterisk has the concept of channels. each call is a channel. so you call my house and a channel is constructed. |
| 17:24.27 | hans | the normal thing to do is use this awful extensions.conf module (pbx_config.so) which parses extensions.conf and applies these "applications" to your channel |
| 17:24.52 | hans | which does things like playback, transfer (with Dial()), move around to other extensions, etc. |
| 17:25.33 | hans | pbx_config.so is what I want to replace, but I want to reuse the applications (which are not part of pbx_config.so, but are modules in and of themselves) |
| 17:25.49 | hans | and the notion of extensions which would be silly to throw away as it is central to telephony |
| 17:26.45 | levi | So, basically, you need to create some sort of C-to-Ruby bridge that sits where pbx_config.so sat in the system. |
| 17:26.48 | hans | that bit, and the simple network protocol, doesn't seem like it would be hard |
| 17:27.02 | hans | right, and I decided a bridge over a socket would be nice |
| 17:27.27 | hans | now, I would like to write the dialplan logic as just another ruby program |
| 17:27.36 | hans | where these asterisk applications are just method calls |
| 17:28.17 | hans | or perl or php or assembly or C or lisp or... |
| 17:31.20 | levi | OK, so the trick is to write the interface code such that you don't end up with lots of message sends that never get replies. |
| 17:32.05 | levi | This sounds like a job that Erlang is perfectly suited for. ;) |
| 17:32.19 | hans | http://rafb.net/paste/results/Gx2iMK96.html |
| 17:32.34 | hans | erlang? |
| 17:34.02 | levi | It's a language invented at Ericsson that's based on message-passing, pattern-matching, and cheap concurrency. |
| 17:34.56 | hans | looks interesting |
| 17:35.04 | levi | Anyway, in your Ruby code, you always want your functions to return, even if the corresponding C code doesn't, right? |
| 17:35.26 | hans | I think so |
| 17:35.37 | hans | it would take a ruby guru to say otherwise, in any case |
| 17:36.49 | levi | How does the C code deal with unwinding the stack when there's no return? |
| 17:38.16 | hans | in pbx_config.so you mean? |
| 17:38.19 | levi | Yes. |
| 17:38.45 | hans | from its perspective, there isn't anything that doesn't return. it just decides which point in the diaplan to execute next |
| 17:38.51 | hans | like an interpreter |
| 17:39.45 | levi | I don't think you're going to get to write things in straightforward Ruby. I think you're going to have to do a Ruby-based DSL. |
| 17:39.46 | hans | maybe it sees some sort of success indicator from Dial when it executes it... <wheels churning> |
| 17:40.03 | hans | DSLs is what I'm trying to avoid |
| 17:40.27 | levi | Why? |
| 17:40.36 | hans | because they're a pain? |
| 17:40.43 | levi | Not if you do them right. |
| 17:41.04 | hans | we have a DSL - extensions.conf. there are others vying to replace it too |
| 17:41.23 | hans | but the benefit to not-a-DSL is you have the whole language at your disposal |
| 17:41.39 | levi | You're misunderstanding me. |
| 17:41.41 | hans | I don't think there's much worth in my writing another DSL to replace extensions.conf or AEL |
| 17:41.43 | tensai | what's a DSL? |
| 17:41.47 | hans | domain-specific language |
| 17:41.49 | levi | I don't mean a totally separate DSL, I mean one that's integrated into Ruby. |
| 17:42.10 | hans | I have no desire to play with ruby parsing |
| 17:42.18 | hans | or ruby parsing languages |
| 17:42.18 | levi | You're still misunderstanding me. |
| 17:42.21 | hans | er, apis |
| 17:42.39 | hans | ok, i'm listening |
| 17:43.46 | levi | Basically, you set up some ruby objects that do the work for you, and the interface to those objects is the DSL. |
| 17:43.58 | hans | ok, yeah that's what I was thinking alread |
| 17:44.00 | hans | y |
| 17:44.20 | levi | This is the sane way to do a DSL. |
| 17:44.28 | hans | my best idea so far is after a dial for example, your object reflects the fact that you're not in control of the channel anymore |
| 17:44.38 | hans | it's another if statement, but not too bad. |
| 17:45.16 | lukfugl | hans: not if it's an internal DSL |
| 17:45.27 | hans | how do you mean? |
| 17:45.50 | levi | My thought was that you need to treat the case that a call doesn't return as the default, and a return as a completely separate message. |
| 17:46.47 | levi | So the 'return' message needs to contain enough information to constitute a continuation. |
| 17:46.56 | lukfugl | http://onestepback.org/articles/lingo/ |
| 17:46.57 | brac | [RubyConf.new(2005) - Speaking the Lingo - Cover] |
| 17:47.20 | hans | lukfugl: thanks, I'll read that |
| 17:47.56 | lukfugl | and http://yhrhosting.com:7000/files/rc12-sat-aftnoon-jim_weirich.mp3 |
| 17:48.00 | hans | levi: ok, I'm following you. I'm still not picturing how you interface, though. do you have a psuedocode snippet maybe? |
| 17:48.02 | lukfugl | the audio to go with the slides |
| 17:48.20 | levi | hans: Not yet, still considering. |
| 17:48.59 | hans | lukfugl: the slides don't seem to work in IE. I'll have to read/listen later when I'm out of this cave |
| 17:49.30 | tensai | hans: did brac just download that mp3 and search for <title> tags? |
| 17:49.36 | *** join/#utah amcnabb (n=amcnabb@128.187.244.183) |
| 17:49.45 | lukfugl | tensai: ummm, maybe? :) |
| 17:49.47 | hans | hmm, no I think he gave the title to the http link |
| 17:50.30 | tensai | hans: well obviously there's not going to be a title tag in an mp3. I'm just wondering if he's smart enough to ignore non-text content types |
| 17:50.33 | hans | levi: as an aside, this is a quick overview of asterisk's architecture http://www.asterisk.org/architecture |
| 17:50.43 | lukfugl | well the title he did print came from the slides link, buthe may have still looked in the mp3 |
| 17:50.57 | tensai | http://www.zmonkey.org/~tensai/ribs.jpg |
| 17:51.14 | tensai | http://www.zmonkey.org/~tensai/ |
| 17:51.21 | hans | mmmm |
| 17:51.37 | tensai | http://www.zmonkey.org/~tensai/index.html |
| 17:51.40 | levi | hans: I think it would be most useful to see the actual C api to calling the functions that implement the dial extension. |
| 17:51.52 | hans | yeah, I'm looking for that now |
| 17:52.09 | levi | Unless some setjmp/longjmp stuff is going on, it's got to return. |
| 17:52.14 | brac | [Asteriskā¢ Architecture | Asterisk] |
| 17:52.23 | tensai | I don't see any hits from brac... |
| 17:52.26 | tensai | oh, there we go |
| 17:52.32 | tensai | 166.70.27.96 - - [19/Oct/2005:11:52:15 -0600] "GET /~tensai/ribs.jpg HTTP/1.1" 200 265464 "-" "-" |
| 17:52.57 | tensai | hans: from the delay, I'm guessing he was busy downloading an mp3 |
| 17:53.25 | lukfugl | brac broke my irssi window bar with that last title |
| 17:54.00 | tensai | quick, everyone post a link to their favorite ISO |
| 17:54.58 | levi | hans: Assuming the C api actually has a function that returns, you'll have no problem at all. |
| 17:55.13 | hans | yeah, I think you're right |
| 17:55.40 | hans | lukfugl: ctrl-l |
| 17:55.50 | hans | yeah, I should probably make him only download a little bit or you guys will dos me |
| 17:55.54 | hans | :) |
| 17:56.11 | hans | levi: if you're interested, http://hans.fugal.net/tmp/asterisk |
| 17:56.12 | brac | [Index of /tmp/asterisk] |
| 17:56.29 | hans | see especially apps/app_dial.c and include/asterisk/app.h |
| 17:58.53 | levi | hans: I'll have to look at it later. |
| 17:59.07 | lukfugl | hans: thanks |
| 17:59.17 | hans | i think you've got me through my brainblock, if nothing else than making me explain everything in detail :) |
| 18:00.11 | lukfugl | hans: be sure to read up on the DSL stuff. An internal DSL really is what you want |
| 18:06.40 | hans | I wil |
| 18:08.31 | lukfugl | also this: http://martinfowler.com/articles/languageWorkbench.html |
| 18:08.35 | brac | [Language Workbenches: The Killer-App for Domain Specific Languages?] |
| 18:09.12 | lukfugl | You don't necessarily care about the language workbenches that he's building towards, but he's got some really good discussion on DSLs as he builds |
| 18:10.40 | hans | i've read that one |
| 18:10.45 | hans | but I'll skim it again |
| 18:42.01 | *** join/#utah gthornock (n=gthornoc@translate.sento.com) |
| 18:43.03 | amcnabb | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:51.57 | *** join/#utah jsmith (n=jsmith@64.0.192.113) |
| 18:52.12 | maquis | ~lart xbmodder_ |
| 18:52.29 | maquis | -lart ibot for a poor lart |
| 18:52.41 | maquis | -roulette |
| 18:52.42 | brac | maquis: chamber 1 of 6 => *BANG* |
| 18:52.54 | maquis | doh |
| 18:52.58 | maquis | -rps rock |
| 18:52.58 | brac | paper! I win! |
| 18:52.58 | brac | ~lart maquis |
| 18:53.07 | maquis | -rps scissors |
| 18:53.08 | brac | rock! I win! |
| 18:53.13 | maquis | -rps scissors |
| 18:53.13 | brac | rock! I win! |
| 18:53.25 | maquis | -rps scissors |
| 18:53.25 | brac | scissors. We tie. |
| 18:53.29 | maquis | -rps scissors |
| 18:53.29 | brac | rock! I win! |
| 18:53.29 | brac | ~lart maquis |
| 18:53.38 | maquis | -rps scissors |
| 18:53.38 | brac | rock! I win! |
| 18:53.39 | hans | -rps stats maquis |
| 18:53.39 | brac | incorrect usage: roshambo <rock|paper|scissors> => play roshambo |
| 18:53.40 | jsmith | ~rps rock |
| 18:53.57 | maquis | -rps scissors |
| 18:53.58 | brac | rock! I win! |
| 18:53.58 | brac | ~lart maquis |
| 18:53.58 | jsmith | Why won't brac play against me? |
| 18:54.05 | maquis | jsmith: because you're asking ibot |
| 18:54.07 | hans | use a - not a ~ |
| 18:54.09 | maquis | -rps scissors |
| 18:54.09 | brac | scissors. We tie. |
| 18:54.12 | maquis | -rps scissors |
| 18:54.12 | brac | scissors. We tie. |
| 18:54.15 | maquis | -rps scissors |
| 18:54.16 | brac | rock! I win! |
| 18:54.19 | maquis | -rps scissors |
| 18:54.19 | brac | rock! I win! |
| 18:54.19 | brac | ~lart maquis |
| 18:54.23 | maquis | -rps scissors |
| 18:54.23 | brac | scissors. We tie. |
| 18:54.26 | maquis | -rps scissors |
| 18:54.26 | brac | rock! I win! |
| 18:54.33 | maquis | -rps scissors |
| 18:54.33 | brac | scissors. We tie. |
| 18:54.37 | maquis | -rps scissors |
| 18:54.37 | brac | scissors. We tie. |
| 18:54.41 | maquis | -rps scissors |
| 18:54.41 | brac | paper. You win. |
| 18:54.47 | maquis | sweet!!! |
| 18:54.50 | maquis | i won!!!!! |
| 18:54.56 | hans | lol |
| 18:54.58 | maquis | -rps stats |
| 18:54.59 | brac | incorrect usage: roshambo <rock|paper|scissors> => play roshambo |
| 18:55.25 | maquis | hans: that was some interesting AI there |
| 18:55.54 | jsmith | -rps rock |
| 18:55.54 | brac | scissors. You win. |
| 18:56.01 | jsmith | -rps paper |
| 18:56.01 | brac | rock. You win. |
| 18:56.17 | maquis | doh |
| 18:56.20 | jsmith | -rps rock |
| 18:56.20 | brac | paper! I win! |
| 18:58.06 | jsmith | -stats |
| 18:58.25 | maquis | -lart jsmith |
| 18:58.34 | maquis | ouch.. that's gotta hurt |
| 18:58.34 | jsmith | Oooh... vaxen! |
| 18:58.45 | jsmith | Gotta love old underpowered boxen... |
| 19:03.00 | maquis | are you sure i was in elementary school at that point |
| 19:12.52 | hans | maquis: ai? |
| 19:17.55 | vontrapp | here's ai... rps = ['rock','paper','scissors']; return rps[(other+rand(2))%3] unless suspicious; return rps[(other+2)%3] |
| 19:19.53 | maquis | hans: well... he's doing better than random |
| 19:21.23 | vontrapp | wow, my compy is really really slow sans cpu scaling |
| 19:23.41 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@hfugal.NMSU.Edu) |
| 19:23.41 | tensai | ~lart elg |
| 19:23.48 | elg | sigh |
| 19:24.38 | elg | i just waded through the asterisk code, and it's worse than I thought. Dynamic dialplans in any form other than via AGI will take a major overhaul of the very most central core source file (pbx.c) |
| 19:24.39 | jsmith | elg: ibot must not have gotten past Asterisk :-) |
| 19:24.48 | jsmith | elg: Yup! |
| 19:25.03 | elg | lol. I guess you could have told me that, eh? |
| 19:25.26 | elg | jsmith: so is there any chance whatsoever of that overhaul happening, or a patch that does it being accepted? |
| 19:25.28 | jsmith | I didn't catch that you wanted *dynamic* dialplans from Ruby |
| 19:25.39 | elg | it could be done to keep backwards compatibility |
| 19:25.44 | jsmith | elg: Did you checkout the Asterisk Realtime Architecture? |
| 19:25.54 | elg | no, haven't heard of that one. |
| 19:25.58 | jsmith | elg: Basically, it lets you put your whole dialplan in a database. |
| 19:26.07 | jsmith | elg: It's very db-intensive, but might work for you |
| 19:26.32 | elg | hmm. well that's better than needing to reload but it still doesn't jibe with writing something in a language, e.g. ruby |
| 19:26.43 | jsmith | Yup. |
| 19:27.07 | elg | ... but with a little forethought, maybe just maybe. (faking out priorities) |
| 19:27.24 | elg | what about that overhaul? |
| 19:27.59 | jsmith | Not anytime soon -- although I don't see why you couldn't rewrite AEL to use Ruby |
| 19:28.01 | elg | i mean, since you've been around, do you see any sentiment from the devs about that |
| 19:28.24 | jsmith | Nope |
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| 19:28.28 | elg | AEL is compiled internally |
| 19:28.34 | elg | so it's also static |
| 19:28.39 | elg | ruby is dynamic |
| 19:29.18 | jsmith | true... I forgot that AEL gets re-parsed into the old dialplan language |
| 19:29.22 | jsmith | (if you can call it a language) |
| 19:29.31 | elg | yeah |
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| 19:29.55 | levi | elg: So, what particular aspect of the architecture has convinced you that doing this in Ruby isn't going to work? |
| 19:30.06 | Goshen | jsmith: you there? I e-mailed the list and suggest you post your Asterisk book on sourceforge if that is possible |
| 19:30.26 | elg | levi the dialplan is static, including priorities |
| 19:31.02 | elg | the whole point of doing what I wanted to do was to be able to dynamically decide what to do - put the decision logic in a GP language instead |
| 19:31.46 | Goshen | Bzflag author speaking to night at Sllug, thats really cool |
| 19:31.53 | Goshen | Wish I had known earlyer |
| 19:32.00 | Goshen | perhaps I can still go |
| 19:32.02 | elg | i'm pretty sure the aseterisk extensions.conf language is turing complete, but barely |
| 19:33.30 | levi | Well, perhaps you could make a Ruby DSL that generates a dialplan, then. |
| 19:33.55 | elg | yeah, I'm going to have to listen to that talk lukfugl recommended before I can pass judgement on that |
| 19:34.23 | elg | or maybe I'll just suck up and use AEL. it's not nearly as bad as extensions.conf. |
| 19:34.57 | elg | or use my DSL I already wrote with #exec (like #include with backticks) |
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| 19:35.17 | levi | There was a Ruby Programming Quiz thing that someone wrote a DSL-thing in Ruby to deal with. |
| 19:35.47 | jsmith | Goshen: Hmmmnnn... I'll have to think about that... |
| 19:36.37 | *** part/#utah chomjak (n=chomjak@eti.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 19:38.23 | Goshen | its open source, in a way so that might work right? |
| 19:38.41 | Goshen | open content anyhow |
| 19:39.01 | Goshen | I am sure xmission would host it for you |
| 19:39.19 | Goshen | they are really good about mirroring open source projects |
| 19:39.25 | Goshen | see mirrors.xmission.com |
| 19:39.36 | Goshen | especially considering you are local |
| 19:39.46 | Jayce^ | Goshen, as for the bzflag author, he's here.. you can always talk to him |
| 19:39.55 | Goshen | he lives here?? |
| 19:40.04 | Goshen | lol |
| 19:40.09 | Goshen | Thats really cool! |
| 19:40.27 | Goshen | he live in Salt lake area? |
| 19:40.31 | Jayce^ | yup |
| 19:40.44 | Goshen | nice :) |
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| 19:40.51 | Goshen | I had no idea |
| 19:41.07 | EC1 | ~lart maquis |
| 19:41.12 | graphyx | I think, at least one class, That they used bzflag as a competition for the artifical intelligence class at BYU. |
| 19:41.18 | *** join/#utah chomjak (n=chomjak@eti.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 19:41.28 | Jayce^ | and there is usually still at least one bzflag lan party |
| 19:41.49 | EC1 | That's always the uug closing social. |
| 19:42.09 | jsmith | Goshen: For what it's worth, I've already had three offers for mirroring, and they've each got at least a gigabit connection to the net :-) |
| 19:42.19 | Goshen | jsmith: nice :) |
| 19:42.21 | JoshH | i wondef if he has a brother named william |
| 19:42.44 | graphyx | jsmith: You book went open downloading? |
| 19:43.02 | Goshen | Do they have the aritificial intelligence class do any upgrading of the AI? :) |
| 19:43.29 | tensai | graphyx: when I took the AI class we did capture the flag, but it was class-specific code |
| 19:43.38 | tensai | and on windows. *ick* |
| 19:43.43 | graphyx | Goshen: No. They had the class, as individuals or groups, design an AI agent which to play bzflag. |
| 19:43.58 | graphyx | tensai: I did it with capture the flag. I can't recall if it was windows or linux at that time though. |
| 19:44.12 | Goshen | well, they need to donate the AI back to the project :) |
| 19:44.17 | graphyx | I took it in 2002 I think.. |
| 19:44.28 | graphyx | Goshen: I am not sure it was all that great. |
| 19:44.59 | graphyx | and not ever having played bzflag I don't know if the one it has now is all the great either.. |
| 19:46.26 | *** join/#utah chomjak (n=chomjak@eti.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 19:46.32 | goozbach | a couple weeks ago all my students installed bzflag and were playing it instead of listening to me |
| 19:48.22 | *** part/#utah chomjak (n=chomjak@eti.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 19:49.04 | Goshen | lol |
| 19:49.15 | harleypig | Jayce^: Are you there? |
| 19:49.28 | Goshen | goozbach: they could have been playing nexuiz |
| 19:49.31 | Goshen | first person shooter |
| 19:51.11 | tensai | goozbach: why did I think of that when sjansen was here?!? |
| 19:51.24 | *** join/#utah chomjak (n=chomjak@eti.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 19:53.11 | harleypig | Crap ... anyone use bitlbee and jabber? |
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| 20:00.43 | hans | -urls |
| 20:00.44 | brac | [2005/10/19 12:08:35] <lukfugl> http://martinfowler.com/articles/languageWorkbench.html |
| 20:00.44 | brac | [2005/10/19 11:56:12] <hans> http://hans.fugal.net/tmp/asterisk |
| 20:00.44 | brac | [2005/10/19 11:52:20] <tensai> http://www.zmonkey.org/~tensai/index.html |
| 20:00.44 | brac | [2005/10/19 11:52:19] <tensai> http://www.zmonkey.org/~tensai/ |
| 20:01.07 | hans | -urls lukfugl |
| 20:01.07 | brac | incorrect usage, ask for help using 'brac: help urls' |
| 20:01.40 | jebar | hans: ldap question for you when you get a chance please connect to IM |
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| 20:19.48 | xbmodder1 | xbmodder1: xbmodder_ xbmodder |
| 20:19.49 | xbmodder1 | ! |
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| 21:09.41 | vontrapp | lame firefox |
| 21:09.43 | vontrapp | -lart firefox |
| 21:10.09 | jsmith | What's wrong with firefox now? |
| 21:10.09 | vontrapp | why does it not use pango? |
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| 21:10.21 | jsmith | I think that has to be patched in :-) |
| 21:11.06 | Tene | Yay, PHP::Session can read php4 session files |
| 21:11.08 | Tene | but not php5 |
| 21:11.17 | Tene | so I guess I get to parse the files on my own |
| 21:12.07 | vontrapp | who knows how long this has been the case |
| 21:12.19 | vontrapp | i've probably been sitting in stagnant ignorance thanks to ubuntu |
| 21:13.49 | vontrapp | and only to discover that firefox is too lame to support the best chance there ever was of universally working language representation |
| 21:14.16 | Tene | eh? |
| 21:14.43 | jsmith | You're not talking esperanto now, are you? |
| 21:14.52 | Tene | Nope. |
| 21:15.01 | graphyx | Reads in English to me. |
| 21:15.02 | Tene | Don't know anything about it. |
| 21:15.14 | Tene | vontrapp: firefox uses pango |
| 21:15.20 | Tene | at least mine does |
| 21:15.29 | Tene | I have to disable it on my box at home, though |
| 21:15.31 | vontrapp | are you sure? cause it doesn't work right if it does |
| 21:15.39 | vontrapp | Tene: Fedora? |
| 21:15.41 | Tene | it works fine here |
| 21:15.42 | Tene | yeah |
| 21:15.55 | vontrapp | yeah, reading up on it, seems fedora deploys a patched firefox |
| 21:15.56 | jsmith | vontrapp: Like I said, the pango support has to be patched in. Fedora does that... |
| 21:15.57 | Tene | broken on my FC4 box at home, but running fine on a bunch of other FC4 boxes I work with |
| 21:17.32 | vontrapp | does jason holt ever hang out in here? |
| 21:17.46 | hans | not to my knowledge |
| 21:18.17 | vontrapp | he knows cambodian, too |
| 21:18.29 | vontrapp | maybe i'll shoot him an email with the good news |
| 21:19.34 | tensai | my debian package of firefox is linked to libpango-1.0.so.0 |
| 21:20.01 | tensai | and libpangox and libpangoxft |
| 21:20.09 | vontrapp | tensai: how do you find that out? |
| 21:20.18 | tensai | ldd /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/firefox-bin |
| 21:20.40 | vontrapp | hmm, mine to |
| 21:20.45 | vontrapp | is it a matter of enabling it then? |
| 21:20.52 | vontrapp | cause like i said, it's not working |
| 21:21.46 | tensai | go to about:config |
| 21:22.03 | tensai | make sure that browser.pango.disable_just_to_annoy_vontrapp is set to false |
| 21:22.30 | vontrapp | i filter on pango, and nothing |
| 21:23.15 | graphyx | tensai: LOL |
| 21:33.14 | tensai | vontrapp: MOZ_ENABLE_PANGO can be used to enable it in other languages. |
| 21:33.35 | tensai | hmm, that might just be for RHEL |
| 21:33.42 | tensai | https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=139531 |
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| 22:04.01 | maquis | ~nslookup phantom.byu.edu |
| 22:04.17 | maquis | ~curse ibot |
| 22:04.19 | ibot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, ibot ! |
| 22:06.53 | *** join/#utah RyanE_ (n=ryan@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 22:11.02 | tensai | maquis: it's not her fault. phantom.byu.edu doesn't exist |
| 22:11.10 | maquis | tensai: so i noticed |
| 22:11.16 | tensai | Host phantom.byu.edu not found: 3(NXDOMAIN) |
| 22:11.21 | maquis | ~lart OIT |
| 22:11.25 | tensai | don't go blaming the messenger |
| 22:11.47 | maquis | tensai: but the messenger is convenient |
| 22:12.01 | tensai | oh, well. in that case... |
| 22:12.08 | maquis | :) |
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| 22:37.26 | mheath | jsmith: are you the Jeremy Smith that listed stuff for sale on sllug-members?/ |
| 22:41.14 | *** join/#utah colera (n=abarlow@byu291974wks.byu.edu) |
| 22:41.40 | colera | anyone know a good network and channel where i could get help with windoze devel? |
| 22:42.02 | mrpull- | grrr.... who else was annoyed that people are calling the dual proc (dual core) G5's quad proc? |
| 22:42.06 | colera | like for some of the winApi's and stuff like winspool.h? |
| 22:50.05 | jsmith | mheath: Nope. |
| 22:50.12 | jsmith | mheath: But you're the second person to ask :-) |
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| 23:21.39 | mheath | Well, perhaps anyone could provide some general advice then |
| 23:22.14 | mheath | What would be a resonable offer for the SGI Indigo II Workstation R4400 that he has for sale? |
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