| 00:06.29 | ScytheBlade1 | haha |
| 00:06.39 | ScytheBlade1 | I have a friend in germany who has a Fedora Core router |
| 00:06.54 | ScytheBlade1 | he left his firewall down for a half-year |
| 00:06.59 | ScytheBlade1 | now has 2.8GB of samba logs |
| 00:07.15 | ScytheBlade1 | 406556 different samba log files |
| 00:21.51 | levi | Heh. |
| 00:22.23 | levi | Apparently the video portion of my transcoding is finished. Now in the middle of the audio... |
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| 00:59.24 | levi | tensai_: I'm finally almost ready to burn my first SVCD. I'll let you know how it goes as soon as I get cdrdao compiled. |
| 00:59.45 | tensai_ | levi: cool |
| 00:59.58 | levi | Transcoding takes FOREVER. |
| 01:02.37 | levi | I used an OS X frontend to the typical unix scripts, so hopefully it knew what it was doing. |
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| 01:55.59 | elg | -lart vontrapp |
| 02:01.04 | Newsome | BAH. |
| 02:02.23 | elg | HUMBUG. |
| 02:04.12 | Newsome | ~curse Angels |
| 02:04.14 | ibot | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, Angels ! |
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| 03:37.13 | mheath | http://cgi.ebay.com/DecWriter-III-LA120-Hard-Terminal-Printer-PDP-11-34_W0QQitemZ5818454095QQcategoryZ1479QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem |
| 03:37.14 | brac | [eBay: DecWriter III LA120 Hard Terminal Printer (PDP 11/34) (item 5818454095 end time Oct-18-05 17:32:56 PDT)] |
| 03:37.29 | mheath | Haha, I'm tempted to buy that just so I can see the look on peoples faces when they see me using it |
| 03:39.45 | levi | Maybe if it came with the PDP-11... ;) |
| 03:41.03 | mheath | I'd love to own a PDP-11! |
| 03:41.10 | mheath | Or even a VAX |
| 03:41.13 | mheath | I'd settle for a VAX |
| 03:41.15 | mheath | :D |
| 03:42.59 | mheath | Ooh, you can buy a VAX for only $3,500 :P |
| 03:43.02 | mheath | er |
| 03:43.03 | mheath | A PDP |
| 03:44.53 | levi | How about a PDP-10? I could load the MIT ITS disk images into it. |
| 03:48.06 | mheath | Hahaha |
| 03:48.36 | mheath | Was MIT ITS compatible with Arpanet? |
| 03:49.17 | mheath | You could rig up some Linux box to do protocol-and-adress translation between the internet and the PDP-10/ITS |
| 03:49.27 | mheath | Have access to it via the internet :P |
| 03:52.52 | mheath | levi: You can get free access to a PDP-10 via the internet |
| 03:53.13 | mheath | But you would never guess who provides this service |
| 03:53.37 | mheath | It shocked me seeing such a name connected with such enthusiasm in classic computing, and such weird alternative OSes |
| 03:59.20 | mheath | Microsoft's own Paul Allen |
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| 04:06.56 | mheath | levi: I'm installing ITS on a PDP-10 emulator right now :) |
| 04:12.26 | mrpull | anybody see the F/A-22's at Hill AFB? |
| 04:14.16 | Supaplex | I may have at the meuseum, but I don't explicitly recall anymore :) |
| 04:14.44 | mrpull | Supaplex: I think there are only 50 in the world... I doubt one is at the museum :) |
| 04:15.18 | Supaplex | well then, that answers that question. :) |
| 04:15.40 | mrpull | http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=119066 |
| 04:15.41 | brac | [ksl.com - Utah's Online Source for Local News & Information] |
| 04:24.33 | mheath | DB ITS 1633 IN OPERATION |
| 04:25.12 | mheath | DB ITS 1633 SYSTEM JOB USING THIS CONSOLE.THE KS-10 CLOCK HAS BEEN RESET, IF THE TIME ACCNOT BE DETERMINED FROM THE NETWORK, YOU MAY HAVE TO :PDSET YEAR, PDTIME OFFSET, NOT ON DISK. PLEASE SETLOC APPROPRIATELY. |
| 04:25.57 | mheath | DB ITS.1633. DDT.1546 |
| 04:25.59 | mheath | TTY 0 |
| 04:26.06 | mheath | You're all alone, Fair share = 99% |
| 04:26.08 | mheath | =) |
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| 04:28.23 | levi | mheath: Cool. :) |
| 04:31.34 | goozbach | sweet! I'm in Chicago this week |
| 04:31.45 | goozbach | I might just get to watch a world series game |
| 04:32.13 | mheath | argh |
| 04:32.17 | mheath | I don't know PDP commands |
| 04:32.26 | mheath | so I'm just following a command-by-command tutorial |
| 04:32.46 | mheath | The only problem is the pdp (or its) doesn't like the backspace key |
| 04:32.50 | mheath | so if I mess up, I break things |
| 04:33.04 | levi | Heh. |
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| 04:35.49 | mheath | This is a very odd environment |
| 04:35.55 | mheath | but it has some very odd, unix-like qualities |
| 04:36.07 | mheath | er, I shouldn't say odd |
| 04:36.19 | mheath | it has some very unix-like qualities |
| 04:36.33 | mheath | makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside, being this comfortable with an operating system so old |
| 04:36.47 | levi | It has the hacker ethos engrained in it. |
| 04:45.58 | mheath | Hahaha, I think *anyone* can create a account if they're at a terminal |
| 04:45.59 | mheath | how awesome |
| 04:49.11 | mheath | "Initially there were no passwords, and a user could work on ITS without even logging on. Logging on was considered polite, though, so people knew when you were connected." |
| 04:52.10 | levi | Steven Levy's book 'Hackers' talks about it a bit, I think. |
| 04:52.16 | levi | It's a good book. |
| 04:56.35 | mheath | I've read it. |
| 04:57.05 | mheath | Someone should make a system like this for Linux |
| 05:01.26 | mheath | A security model, that is |
| 05:02.09 | mheath | agh, I hate my math class |
| 05:03.19 | Newsome | the topic, the teacher, or the busywork? |
| 05:05.45 | Supaplex | yes |
| 05:06.20 | mheath | Newsome: Busywork, and the fact that me and Calculus don't seem to be agreeing |
| 05:06.41 | Supaplex | you've proved calculus wrong? ;) |
| 05:07.09 | mheath | Newsome: I missed out on a huge portion of a pre-requisite for this class, because I transfered out halfway through last year |
| 05:07.22 | mheath | I've been extremely confused from the start |
| 05:07.36 | Newsome | ouch |
| 05:07.41 | mheath | And I've gone to the teacher several times, asking if I should transfer out. Each time, she's told me that I should stay |
| 05:07.45 | Newsome | yeah, that would make it difficult |
| 05:08.14 | mheath | Now, I have a test tomorrow, and I don't really understand *anything* on it. I'm so far behind and so confused, that even when I go to her for extra help....she explains things in terms too complex for me |
| 05:09.23 | Newsome | I actually enjoyed my math classes...until I had some issues in Multivariate Calculus that brought an end to my math career |
| 05:09.44 | mheath | I learn Math differently than most people..... |
| 05:09.57 | Newsome | I won't say what caused the problem, but it started with "G" and ended with "irl" |
| 05:10.08 | mheath | I have to see just the right example, or have it explained in just the right way.......Then all the sudden it will just *click* and make perfect sense |
| 05:10.46 | mheath | Until then, though, I'm confused out of my mind. |
| 05:11.26 | mheath | I have dozens of old assignments that are overdue; I haven't been able to do them because I can't understand them and I've been so busy lately |
| 05:11.43 | mheath | well, not dozen*s*, about a dozen |
| 05:12.13 | mheath | I'm going to fail this class, I'm sure of it. Theres just no way for me to make this all up, or for me to pass this test tomorrow |
| 05:12.27 | Newsome | ugh, sounds bad |
| 05:12.49 | mheath | I just wish the teacher wouldn't have talked me out of transfering out of the class |
| 05:13.08 | mheath | I don't need the math credit; I have all the highschool math credit I needed |
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| 05:14.33 | mheath | My dad will be upset if I go to him for help or advice, too |
| 05:15.05 | mheath | He thinks he's the worlds best math teacher; he'll rant about how I didn't go to him for help earlier. |
| 05:27.58 | levi | mheath: Perhaps if you'd spent more time trying to figure out your math assignments and less on trying to make new Linux distributions, design tablet computers, and other non-urgent things you've been doing. |
| 05:28.23 | levi | mheath: I flunked plenty of classes myself by doing the same thing. |
| 05:28.37 | mheath | levi: I spend a huge amount of time trying to figure it out |
| 05:29.03 | mheath | levi: I have a pile of assignments, many of which I've spent hours working on / reading info on to try to figure out |
| 05:29.27 | mheath | none of which are anywhere near done |
| 05:29.31 | levi | I'm not going to argue with you about it, but it's something to think about. |
| 05:30.02 | mheath | levi: I discuss a lot of ideas in here, but the truth is I don't usually work on things that much |
| 05:30.18 | mheath | which is why I have dozens of half-finished, or never-really-started projects |
| 05:30.46 | levi | Maybe you should ask about your math problems instead. :) |
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| 06:44.11 | JoyGates | down with SCO |
| 06:47.56 | bonez39 | anyone else notice the lack of an index to Oct 05 conference? for the .pdb download from lds.org? |
| 06:48.15 | bonez39 | JoyGates, not a darl mcbride fan? heheh |
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| 12:52.42 | graphyx | morning |
| 13:02.13 | goozbach | morning |
| 13:02.51 | goozbach | microtek++ |
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| 13:42.37 | hans | -weather |
| 13:42.37 | brac | The weather stored for KLRU could not be parsed (KLRU 141429Z AUTO RMK AO2 PWINO) |
| 13:42.49 | hans | -weather kpvu |
| 13:42.49 | brac | 8 minutes ago, on Mon Oct 17 13:35:00 UTC 2005, the wind was blowing at a speed of 3.60 meters per second (8.06 miles per hour) from the South at KPVU. The temperature was 7 degrees Celsius (45 degrees Fahrenheit), and the pressure was 1024 hPa (30.00 inHg). The relative humidity was 70.5%. The sky was clear. |
| 13:58.10 | hans | -fortune |
| 13:58.10 | brac | You could live a better life, if you had a better mind and a better body. |
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| 14:21.12 | xbmodder_lappy | morning++ |
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| 14:57.27 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
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| 15:16.02 | goozbach | morning-- |
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| 15:19.03 | xbmodder_school | lala |
| 15:19.06 | xbmodder_school | fungus: hey |
| 15:19.55 | fungus | It's too early for happiness. |
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| 15:23.10 | xbmodder_school | true for i in range(0,12): time++ |
| 15:30.10 | xbmodder_school | gfeg |
| 15:35.56 | xbmodder_school | ... |
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| 16:44.45 | maquis | webpages should *never* change the size of my browser window |
| 16:48.35 | jsmith | Attention Asterisk users: My book is now available for free online (in PDF format) at www.asteriskdocs.org |
| 16:48.54 | *** join/#utah hans (i=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 16:49.02 | hans | jsmith: that's sweet |
| 16:49.12 | hans | I got mine on friday, and it's been a good read so far |
| 16:49.15 | hans | learned a lot already! |
| 16:49.27 | maquis | hmmm |
| 16:49.28 | hans | we had a successful conference call with meetme yesterday for my son's 1-year party |
| 16:49.37 | maquis | http://techdirt.com/articles/20051017/0353224_F.shtml |
| 16:49.38 | brac | [Techdirt:Run And Hide: Goldman Sachs Says The Internet IPO Market Is Back] |
| 16:49.54 | hans | hold on, brac. we're going IPO |
| 16:50.22 | hans | $$$ |
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| 16:59.10 | hans | tensai: ping |
| 17:08.56 | maquis | w00t... provo has one of the highest percentages of "early adopters" of technology... :) |
| 17:12.15 | jsmith | Not surprising... |
| 17:12.37 | maquis | yeah... still cool, though :) |
| 17:12.41 | RyanE | jsmith: do they always release the PDF so soon after the book? |
| 17:12.45 | RyanE | seems really soon... |
| 17:13.03 | hans | -urls |
| 17:13.03 | brac | [2005/10/17 10:49:37] <maquis> http://techdirt.com/articles/20051017/0353224_F.shtml |
| 17:13.03 | brac | [2005/10/16 22:15:41] <mrpull> http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=119066 |
| 17:13.03 | brac | [2005/10/16 21:37:14] <mheath> http://cgi.ebay.com/DecWriter-III-LA120-Hard-Terminal-Printer-PDP-11-34_W0QQitemZ5818454095QQcategoryZ1479QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem |
| 17:13.04 | brac | [2005/10/16 15:25:46] <mheath> http://playground.sun.com/1275/home.html |
| 17:13.35 | jsmith | RyanE: Depends on the book... with ours, they allowed us to release it just as soon as it was available in bookstores, as it was published under the Creative Commons license. |
| 17:14.06 | RyanE | jsmith: cool |
| 17:14.18 | jsmith | Yeah, very cool. |
| 17:14.43 | maquis | jsmith: :) |
| 17:16.31 | RyanE | jsmith: I dig the registration marks on the pages... :) |
| 17:19.53 | jsmith | RyanE: Yeah -- they were slow to get us a PDF, so we ended up pulling them straight from the production team :-) |
| 17:21.24 | maquis | http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-10/12/content_484196.htm |
| 17:21.28 | brac | [Beijingers fall victim to SMS scam] |
| 17:21.39 | RyanE | do you think you'll post a version without the registration marks later? |
| 17:21.53 | RyanE | I suspect I'll be buying it either way, but I'm curious... |
| 17:22.17 | jsmith | RyanE: Possible, but probably not... it's a lot of work on O'Reilly's side to generate the PDFs, especially after production, since by then it's all in FrameMaker. |
| 17:23.01 | RyanE | well, it's always another incentive to go pick up the version where the registration marks have been cut off for you. :) |
| 17:23.50 | jsmith | Do they really bother you that much? |
| 17:26.05 | RyanE | naw, not really. |
| 17:26.27 | RyanE | you get used to consistent clutter like that. My office is a testament to that fact. |
| 17:26.53 | maquis | hmmm |
| 17:26.56 | maquis | question for people |
| 17:27.36 | maquis | my friend is trying to get php set up on a windows box with apache, and apahe's telling her that "no services" are found... |
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| 17:36.22 | maquis | -lart jakea |
| 17:40.15 | hans | so who knows what file is what in /etc/pam.d? I've never been clear on authconfig, login, passwd, etc. |
| 17:40.47 | maquis | has anyone here ever had gaim pop up a window saying you're over a transaction limit? |
| 17:42.04 | maquis | my friend says that like 5 different messages all came at once... |
| 17:42.20 | maquis | apparently gaim decided to hold onto things until i dropped below the "transaction limit" or something |
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| 17:51.07 | RyanE | maquis: waht protocol? |
| 17:51.14 | maquis | RyanE: AIM |
| 17:51.17 | RyanE | I know that AIM has some sort of anti-flooding stuff |
| 17:51.27 | maquis | RyanE: i wasn't flooding, though |
| 17:51.42 | maquis | i was just trying to help my friend set up php |
| 17:51.50 | RyanE | For a while, I had my Home Automation system sending me alerts of when things happened at home, and on AIM, it would trigger anti-flooding messages. |
| 17:51.58 | RyanE | I doubt it's gaim, but probably AIM itself. |
| 17:53.55 | maquis | haha |
| 17:54.02 | maquis | AIM i think it is aim... |
| 17:54.07 | maquis | er |
| 17:54.09 | maquis | yeah |
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| 18:02.52 | maquis | ipes |
| 18:02.56 | maquis | gaim just crashed |
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| 18:34.43 | goozbach | gaim rox |
| 18:35.59 | maquis | it would if it didn't decide to randomly crash |
| 18:38.13 | goozbach | sucks to be you... |
| 18:38.25 | maquis | gah |
| 18:38.29 | maquis | it just crashed again |
| 18:38.53 | maquis | stupid computer |
| 18:42.31 | maquis | Qiu Chengwei, 41, repeatedly stabbed Zhu Caoyuan after discovering that Zhu had sold the "dragon sabre" for 7,200 yuan (£464). Qiu had lent his friend the cybersabre last February, later reporting it as "stolen" when he learned of the transaction. Police, however, told him that - as the disputed weapon was virtual property - he had no recourse to law. |
| 18:45.47 | harleypig | http://forgetmenotpanties.contagiousmedia.org |
| 18:45.48 | brac | [forget-me-not panties : with sensatech technology] |
| 18:45.50 | harleypig | Wierd idea. |
| 18:46.54 | goozbach | great! |
| 18:47.09 | Jayce^ | goozbach, so, you definately out this saturday? |
| 18:49.02 | goozbach | senario game? |
| 18:50.42 | Jayce^ | yeah |
| 18:50.48 | Jayce^ | going to be good |
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| 19:16.21 | graphyx | harleypig: It's a hoax. Just product research and such. |
| 19:18.58 | mrpull- | "(High definition DVD) is the last physical media format there will ever be," said Gates. "There won't be one after this one." |
| 19:18.59 | mrpull- | Bill Gates is funny. |
| 19:19.24 | graphyx | It is amazing that someone as smart as he can say something like that. |
| 19:19.43 | graphyx | I guess it does go along with the noone will even need more than 256K memory. |
| 19:21.20 | graphyx | Ok is installing a postscript printer in linux a piece of cake? |
| 19:24.01 | vontrapp | graphyx: sometimes |
| 19:24.16 | vontrapp | graphyx: not with my karma |
| 19:25.18 | vontrapp | i have had _some_ easy times |
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| 19:25.46 | vontrapp | elg! |
| 19:26.05 | elg | moo |
| 19:26.19 | Tene | graphyx: for me, it usually "just works" |
| 19:26.42 | Tene | The other day I was wondering about printing on my system at home, because I had never set anything up |
| 19:27.08 | Tene | so I decided to click 'print' in an app, and the network printer on the windows boxes was listed there, and worked fine. |
| 19:27.40 | vontrapp | i did manage to get my brothers printer set up on my tower and shared over the network, working with an iBook, a windows box, and my linux lappy |
| 19:29.55 | elg | yeah, these days if the distro installs cups and is sane enough not to cripple it out of the box (/me glares at ubuntu) then for a postscript printer or networked printers it's easy |
| 19:32.55 | graphyx | well darn.. |
| 19:33.01 | graphyx | I got it all setup and did a test print. |
| 19:33.05 | graphyx | IT said successfully sent. |
| 19:33.10 | graphyx | but no page showed up on the printer. |
| 19:33.17 | elg | what kind of connection? |
| 19:33.37 | graphyx | network |
| 19:34.03 | elg | what kind of network? |
| 19:34.08 | graphyx | TCP |
| 19:35.10 | graphyx | standard ethernet. |
| 19:35.19 | elg | so it's a jetdirect...? |
| 19:35.28 | graphyx | Sharp printer. |
| 19:36.19 | graphyx | hmm... just checked cups and the two test jobs are listed as aborted. |
| 19:36.31 | elg | you can check out the logs. |
| 19:38.22 | vontrapp | oh blast... turning the little button thing off then on made it work |
| 19:41.15 | vontrapp | oh boy http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_1570835.html |
| 19:41.16 | brac | [ Ananova - Musical breast implants ] |
| 19:41.58 | Jayce^ | just from that subject, that sounds like a link harleypig would post |
| 19:42.08 | Jayce^ | or maybe a mix of harleypig and hans |
| 19:42.19 | vontrapp | LOL |
| 19:44.55 | vontrapp | found it under copyfigh: DRM you Breasts |
| 19:45.06 | vontrapp | s/you/your/ |
| 19:48.02 | Jayce^ | http://nerfhaven.com/homemade/boltsniper_far/ |
| 19:48.04 | brac | [NerfHaven] |
| 19:48.07 | Jayce^ | now I want to build one of those |
| 19:54.17 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 19:54.50 | jebar | elg: got a minute to speak on sametime |
| 19:58.57 | *** join/#utah jakea (n=jakea@byu290350wks.byu.edu) |
| 20:04.14 | *** join/#utah lars-ut (n=me@67.137.31.58) |
| 20:17.33 | goozbach | I think my BS'er is broken |
| 20:17.47 | goozbach | 3:15 and already done with the day's content |
| 20:18.22 | maquis | goozbach: nice |
| 20:18.44 | maquis | goozbach: might want to get htat fixed... it's important |
| 20:19.03 | goozbach | must create more BS |
| 20:19.23 | maquis | goo: what's the topic? |
| 20:24.57 | emcnabb | I have two students sitting next to each other in class: "mike" and "jordan" |
| 20:25.07 | emcnabb | it's easy to remember their names :-) |
| 20:25.39 | elg | what sports do they play? |
| 20:25.58 | emcnabb | :-) |
| 20:31.54 | vontrapp | any one know of some good trackback docs? (technical specifications, ping format, etc.)? |
| 20:34.36 | vontrapp | TheDiff: does that |detached automatically toggle on screen attachment/detachment? |
| 20:36.59 | TheDiff | psh no |
| 20:37.00 | TheDiff | i wish |
| 20:37.03 | TheDiff | that would be sick |
| 20:37.42 | TheDiff | i wonder how you could do that... |
| 20:39.39 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 20:39.39 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 20:54.53 | vontrapp | TheDiff: you could have a wrapper script that does the attaching/nicking together |
| 20:55.07 | TheDiff | hmm |
| 20:55.09 | vontrapp | you'd have to figure some way to tell your client to /nick you |
| 20:58.24 | goozbach | TheDiff|detached: a good .screenrc entry |
| 20:58.33 | goozbach | check the info page |
| 21:00.22 | *** join/#utah fishyfire (n=Fishyfir@158.91.203.5) |
| 21:02.11 | vontrapp | wow! amazing! DeMuDi automagically has my mute led working! |
| 21:02.29 | fishyfire | anyone have a recommendation for a good webhosting site? cheap would be nice.... |
| 21:03.00 | Tene | fishyfire: what do you need and what's cheap to you? |
| 21:04.34 | fishyfire | well right now i am on a plan that's giving me 5000 mb disk space, and 300 gb data transfer for 6.99 a month |
| 21:05.55 | fishyfire | but i am not happy with it.... lots of down time with the email |
| 21:06.40 | fishyfire | it works on and off... and all i get it tech support people telling me they are having problems that will be fixed soon, and sometimes the control panel is slow or down because they are doing backups |
| 21:06.58 | jsmith | Not to be rude, but what do you expect for practically nothing? |
| 21:07.07 | elg | mute led? |
| 21:07.12 | jsmith | (At least they're doing backups!) |
| 21:07.15 | fishyfire | jsmith: yes, i am realizing that very fast |
| 21:07.17 | jsmith | elg: Good point. |
| 21:07.24 | fishyfire | i am somewhat new to this.... |
| 21:07.25 | jsmith | elg: Mute buttons are cool! |
| 21:07.37 | elg | i have a good point? i don't even know what point that is. :) |
| 21:07.45 | vontrapp | elg: dernhelm has this mute button with an led in it, it lights up when Master is muted now :) |
| 21:08.05 | elg | oh. well what do you expect from an audio distro? ;-) |
| 21:08.22 | fishyfire | so do you have any suggestions of a good hosting site? |
| 21:08.29 | vontrapp | well, the mute button is a different story, it doesn't actually work, just it's cool blue light :-/ |
| 21:08.46 | vontrapp | the program hotkeys _kinda_ works |
| 21:09.02 | vontrapp | but instead of actually muting it simple turns the volume all the way down |
| 21:09.21 | vontrapp | real braindead if you ask me, and i haven't been able to find a way to configure it |
| 21:11.00 | vontrapp | although i DO remmember finding configurations for /something/ when i first used it, which things i was also unable to find recently, so maybe i just lost it somewhere and i actually can make it do The Right Thing TM |
| 21:12.41 | fishyfire | Tene: any suggestions for something good, any price range? |
| 21:13.09 | jsmith | fishyfire: Rackspace |
| 21:13.54 | Tene | Well, there's the company I work for... |
| 21:14.23 | fishyfire | which is? |
| 21:14.33 | Jayce^ | fishyfire, what are your real requirements, that's the main thing |
| 21:14.38 | Tene | yeah |
| 21:14.44 | Tene | just random personal website? |
| 21:14.57 | Tene | I'd suggest using FishyFire Inc. |
| 21:15.44 | fishyfire | Trying to start up a business... |
| 21:16.01 | Tene | What sort of a business? |
| 21:16.48 | fishyfire | I am not sure how much bandwidth I need... as of right now the amount of disk space i need is rather small |
| 21:17.27 | fishyfire | i guess it would be good to start at the lower end, and have the option to upgrade as needed |
| 21:21.17 | mheath | Um... |
| 21:21.20 | mheath | This is odd |
| 21:21.32 | mheath | I clicked on a link that someone typed incorrectly |
| 21:21.42 | mheath | That is, they typed the URL incorrectly |
| 21:21.46 | mheath | http://http//www.gnu.org/philosophy/stallman-kth.html |
| 21:21.58 | vontrapp | fishyfire: what about linnode? |
| 21:22.03 | mheath | The thing is, when I click that in Firefox on Windows XP..... |
| 21:22.08 | mheath | I get www.microsoft.com. |
| 21:22.47 | Jayce^ | two http |
| 21:22.53 | Jayce^ | http://http// <<-- |
| 21:23.01 | Jayce^ | so it goes to your default search domain |
| 21:23.39 | mheath | ah |
| 21:23.52 | mheath | which is, on a microsoft box, stupidly www.microsoft.com |
| 21:26.15 | mheath | ITS's security model interests me |
| 21:26.26 | mheath | Imagine...complete freedom for any user to do anything.... |
| 21:26.40 | Tene | ITS? |
| 21:26.43 | mheath | Only you log everything (IPs, etc) to discourage abuse behavior... |
| 21:27.01 | Tene | anything? including modifying the logs? |
| 21:27.33 | mheath | And you have a RCS builtin to the kernel that allows bad changes to be reversed |
| 21:27.46 | mheath | Only the logs and the RCS would be inaccessible for the users to mess with. |
| 21:28.31 | mheath | Tene: ITS is the Incompatible Timesharing System. (It's not 'incompatible', it was a play on words based on the Compatible Timesharing System, which the ITS creators disliked) |
| 21:28.40 | vontrapp | bah, whatever, who has time to scrutinize logs all day? |
| 21:29.05 | mheath | Tene: It was the main OS used at the MIT AI Lab for about 20 years |
| 21:29.29 | mheath | And was extremely influential in the creation of UNIX. |
| 21:30.07 | mheath | vontrapp: you wouldn't have to |
| 21:30.18 | mheath | Normally |
| 21:30.58 | mheath | Besides, theres no passwords, to administrative access to gain |
| 21:31.25 | mheath | er |
| 21:31.32 | mheath | *theres no passwords, no administrative access to gain |
| 21:31.55 | mheath | Basically, I telnet in (or ssh in) and am instantly given a shell |
| 21:32.01 | mheath | without having to give a username or password |
| 21:32.42 | graphyx | mheath what happens if I delete the kernel and reboot? |
| 21:33.17 | mheath | graphyx: I should have mentioned that. Kernel would be one more thing that wouldn't be accessible by the normal user |
| 21:33.43 | mheath | If some idiot decides to make major changes, though, the local sysadmin can pop in a livecd, and use the RCS (built into the filesystem) to backout the changes |
| 21:34.09 | graphyx | mheath: what if I log in and DoS other systems. You can't really undo that.. |
| 21:34.15 | graphyx | and then they would only have my ip. |
| 21:34.34 | elg | pretty easy to get DoS'ed yourself, too |
| 21:34.42 | graphyx | And if you go through a bunch of said systems you could obscure your ip so bad it would take months to track you down.. |
| 21:34.47 | elg | when just anyone can log in and use your resources |
| 21:34.52 | graphyx | Yeah. |
| 21:35.05 | graphyx | mheath: I take it that this system wasn't setup for networked usage. |
| 21:35.17 | graphyx | which is why all the problems are from interaction. |
| 21:35.26 | graphyx | but other than that doesn't seem like too bad an idea. |
| 21:35.34 | mheath | graphyx: It had free, public access via ARPAnet |
| 21:36.14 | elg | back in the glory days of people trusting one another and not taking advantage of eachother |
| 21:36.46 | elg | I find it heartening that the first worm was a mistake. like, not all humans are lame-o's trying to ruin your life. |
| 21:41.25 | mheath | If you could come up with someway to protect against utilization-for-DoS and being-DoSed, it would be safe for networked use |
| 21:41.43 | mheath | The original ITS designated a fair share of computing power to each user |
| 21:42.04 | mheath | IE, if there were 5 users, each would basically get 20% of the computers time |
| 21:42.21 | elg | only 5 users? |
| 21:42.39 | elg | only n, where n is reasonable? |
| 21:43.13 | tensai | elg: pong |
| 21:43.16 | mheath | IF you could implement a similar system on Linux, that would prevent users from DoSing things by logging onto the machine |
| 21:43.33 | mheath | er, DoSing things locally |
| 21:43.44 | mheath | that is, they couldn't slow down the system by running tons of junk |
| 21:43.51 | elg | hmm, I'm still confused |
| 21:44.13 | elg | linux is a multiuser os. things are balanced |
| 21:44.14 | tensai | elg: only 284 minute RTT. not bad. :) |
| 21:44.37 | elg | if you have 5 users running processes that are cpu-bound, they'll get about 20% of the cpu |
| 21:45.03 | elg | the problem comes when the number of users is great enough that you spend all of your time context-switching |
| 21:45.15 | elg | also ram |
| 21:45.46 | elg | both can be handled if you put a maximum on the number of users, but then DoS becomes redefined as having enough sessions open that no legitimate users can log in because it's at the limit |
| 21:46.40 | mheath | elg: there wouldn't be a limitation on the users, only that there can only be one user from each IP |
| 21:46.42 | elg | tensai: got that rhel ldap stuff handy? |
| 21:47.09 | mheath | And I was thinking...you make the limit the upload pipe to something rather small |
| 21:47.14 | tensai | elg: oh yeah. lemme find that. hans [at] fugal.net? |
| 21:47.15 | elg | mheath: a step in the right direction. works until you get attacked by a bunch of drone computers... or slashdot. :) |
| 21:47.23 | elg | tensai: ya |
| 21:47.49 | mheath | that would prevent people from DoSing other machines using it |
| 21:48.26 | *** join/#utah Bradipo (i=bradipo@xmission.xmission.com) |
| 21:49.07 | mheath | elg: throttle connections, so only so many people can connect in a certain time period |
| 21:49.14 | mheath | And require activity |
| 21:49.29 | mheath | making it difficult and time consuming for someone to log a huge amount of drone computers onto it |
| 21:51.53 | elg | cool. go do it and let us know how it works |
| 21:52.48 | tensai | elg: btw. <ctrl-v>jjjjjI#<esc> is awesome |
| 21:53.04 | elg | :) |
| 21:53.25 | elg | and of course you can d and p and so forth |
| 21:58.51 | elg | I love other people's code. I love classes named "PriotizedNode" and such |
| 21:59.00 | elg | oh, another of my favorite misspellings is "Que" |
| 22:03.36 | vontrapp | hehe |
| 22:07.01 | elg | and for today's yak, I'm going to make a reference card on using cscope in vim so I never have to read the copious documentation again |
| 22:08.10 | *** join/#utah misterpull (n=misterpu@xmjake.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 22:08.26 | mheath | I'm going to setup revolution.datamachine.net again, too |
| 22:08.30 | mheath | Running Debian GNU |
| 22:08.46 | mheath | If anyone wants an account on that, let me know |
| 22:08.58 | mheath | Have the opportunity to play with Hurd |
| 22:12.48 | Tene | elg: the "cscopeous" documentation? |
| 22:13.02 | mheath | I'll hopefully have that online by tomorrow morning |
| 22:17.50 | harleypig | http://qdb.us/49489 How to get a raise. |
| 22:17.51 | brac | [QDB: Quote #49489] |
| 22:19.11 | *** join/#utah levi (n=levi@66.239.25.2.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 22:21.17 | elg | Tene: precisely :) |
| 22:23.39 | levi | Yo. |
| 22:24.26 | maquis | levi: sup? |
| 22:25.01 | elg | vontrapp: which have you tried? |
| 22:25.05 | levi | maquis: Just finally resolved an issue that's been plaguing me for the last few working days. |
| 22:25.07 | elg | what are you looking for this time around? |
| 22:25.15 | maquis | levi: what was the problem? |
| 22:25.16 | elg | ~champagne levi |
| 22:25.18 | maquis | and how'd you fix it? |
| 22:25.41 | levi | maquis: An encryption algorithm that had to be implemented in C (by me) and Java (by a coworker). And the outputs weren't matching up. |
| 22:25.53 | maquis | levi: that sounds interesting |
| 22:25.56 | vontrapp | honestly, i've only extensively used icewm and evilwm |
| 22:26.01 | maquis | what algorithm? |
| 22:26.16 | elg | vontrapp: write vimwm |
| 22:26.20 | vontrapp | had brief flirts with fluxbox, wmaker, and that other one you said to try |
| 22:26.36 | vontrapp | fvwm |
| 22:26.37 | elg | fvwm? ion? |
| 22:26.38 | levi | maquis: First, I had to get my byte order correct. Then, I had to figure out why the Java one wasn't working. |
| 22:27.08 | levi | maquis: It was TEA. I figured it'd be trivial to implement, since it's like 5 lines of C for the encryption and another 5 for decryption. |
| 22:27.18 | vontrapp | elg, :sp firefox |
| 22:27.19 | vontrapp | ;) |
| 22:27.27 | maquis | vontrapp: id you liked evilwm, there's also badwm that i stumbled across... not sure if it's even different at all... looks almost the same... |
| 22:27.39 | maquis | levi: :) |
| 22:27.40 | Jayce^ | you could try 'ion' :) |
| 22:27.52 | elg | ion is a fun experience. you ought to do that |
| 22:28.11 | levi | maquis: There were a number of problems with the Java implementation. The first of which is that the contributed Java version on the TEA website was totally wrong. |
| 22:28.19 | Jayce^ | might cure you of ever claiming you enjoy 'minimilistic' managers... |
| 22:28.39 | levi | maquis: Whoever wrote it thought that in C, ^ was an exponent operator. |
| 22:29.01 | maquis | levi: ouch |
| 22:29.11 | levi | maquis: Also, freaking stupid Java has no 'unsigned' data types. |
| 22:29.17 | maquis | haha |
| 22:29.26 | maquis | i've heard that complaint many times |
| 22:29.45 | levi | So, we had to upgrade from 32 to 64 bits and then do a ton of masking. |
| 22:29.56 | vontrapp | using evil has accustomed me to using all these little programs that "do one thing and do it well" |
| 22:30.08 | vontrapp | fits the unix philosophy quite well |
| 22:30.17 | vontrapp | and i'll probably carry that into whatever wm is next |
| 22:30.20 | maquis | levi: fun |
| 22:30.25 | elg | maquis: yum is complaining because java has no unsigned data types |
| 22:30.28 | maquis | vontrapp: yeah... it's nice |
| 22:30.36 | vontrapp | so i won't be using a whole lot of builtin wm stuff |
| 22:30.39 | maquis | elg: nope... it's complaining about something being set up wrong |
| 22:30.48 | vontrapp | not the stupid little everyday features anyway |
| 22:30.49 | maquis | vontrapp: that's the beauty of evil... :) |
| 22:30.52 | levi | maquis: And to compound the problem, the other guy's test code had an error in it. |
| 22:30.57 | maquis | levi: nice |
| 22:31.10 | maquis | sounds like a fun set of issues |
| 22:31.27 | elg | you could give sawfish a try and flex your emacs^H^H^H^H^Hscheme muscles |
| 22:31.29 | levi | maquis: So, yeah, it took us a lot of time. |
| 22:31.54 | elg | levi: no obiwan errors? |
| 22:32.02 | levi | sawfish doesn't use scheme. |
| 22:32.15 | levi | It uses librep. |
| 22:32.16 | elg | er, sawmill. I thought it did? |
| 22:32.35 | elg | some kind of lispy thing then. I thought it was scheme |
| 22:33.15 | levi | It's supposed to be like elisp with static scoping and a single namespace for symbols. |
| 22:33.41 | levi | I guess it does support running scheme, hmm. |
| 22:33.44 | maquis | //var/cache/yum/updates-released/repomd.xml:1: parser error : Opening and ending tag mismatch: META line 1 and HEAD |
| 22:33.47 | maquis | nois.edu/pub/linux/fedora/linux/core/updates/4/i386/repodata/repomd.xml"></HEAD> |
| 22:33.59 | levi | I don't think it was always scheme-compatible, though. |
| 22:35.51 | levi | There's also scwm. |
| 22:36.40 | levi | Cool, scwm has a constraint solver in it. |
| 22:39.18 | vontrapp | ya know, that's one thing i never really liked about the whole desktop thing... gnome and kde seeking to make everything gnomified or kdeified rather than a set of tools that can be used wherever |
| 22:46.53 | levi | I like having a unified desktop. |
| 22:48.19 | levi | The unix philosophy works pretty well for command-line stuff, but its weaknesses become far more apparent when you get into the GUI realm. |
| 22:48.31 | maquis | gah!!!! |
| 22:49.21 | RyanE | jsmith: is this IAXy any different / better / worse than the orange and blue ones? http://shop.ifax.com/product_info.php?products_id=68 |
| 22:49.22 | brac | [iFAX Solutions] |
| 22:50.42 | tensai | levi: I like dcop. seems to be a pretty good way to apply the unix philosophy to the gui. |
| 22:51.07 | elg | this is annoying. we're supposed to write a planner based on this AL language, but the provided parser croaks on the example input and I have no idea where on the web this AL language is defined. |
| 22:51.16 | elg | AL is one of those searches that proves to be almost useless |
| 22:52.21 | Jayce^ | j:q |
| 22:52.25 | Jayce^ | heh |
| 22:52.39 | RyanE | elg: I dunno. If you put in "al language" into Google (with the quotes), it seems to return stuff that seems applicable... |
| 22:53.03 | levi | tensai: Well, component models like DCOP are one way to do it, but that "KDEifies" everything, which vontrapp doesn't seem to like. |
| 22:53.20 | elg | hadn't tried that particular search.thanks |
| 22:54.01 | RyanE | like this one: http://accad.osu.edu/~smay/AL/LangRef/basic_types.html |
| 22:54.06 | brac | [AL: Language Ref: Basic Concepts: AL Types] |
| 22:54.20 | elg | nope that's not it |
| 22:54.22 | elg | different AL |
| 22:54.28 | levi | UNIX-style programs are all based on stdin/stdout. What are those in the GUI realm if you don't provide some sort of standard base to build on? There needs to be more than just drawing primitives to bring the Unix philosophy to the GUI. |
| 22:54.38 | RyanE | elg: sorry. |
| 22:54.44 | elg | no prob |
| 22:55.43 | elg | i guess I'll give in and email the guy that wrote the parser and ask him if he knows it's borked and where can I find the spec |
| 22:55.44 | levi | If you /do/ build a standard software base, it won't work with apps that don't use it, and you get accused of balkanizing things. |
| 23:02.45 | *** join/#utah xbmodder_lappy (i=nobody@xbmodder.us) |
| 23:02.48 | xbmodder_lappy | hey |
| 23:02.50 | xbmodder_lappy | sup? |
| 23:03.09 | xbmodder_lappy | lars-ut, hey |
| 23:03.47 | lars-ut | howdy |
| 23:03.59 | lars-ut | ~emulate Bill |
| 23:04.02 | ibot | Come on, Fang! Let's dance! |
| 23:04.32 | xbmodder_lappy | ~help emulate |
| 23:04.38 | xbmodder_lappy | ~emulate |
| 23:04.42 | lars-ut | xbmodder_lappy: what's up? |
| 23:04.43 | xbmodder_lappy | ~emulate xbmodder_lappy |
| 23:04.45 | xbmodder_lappy | ~emulate xbmodder |
| 23:04.50 | xbmodder_lappy | lars-ut, not too much |
| 23:05.03 | lars-ut | try ~emulate gir |
| 23:13.31 | lars-ut | xbmodder_lappy: Do you sell modded xboxes? |
| 23:13.40 | xbmodder_lappy | nope. |
| 23:13.43 | xbmodder_lappy | I mod them. |
| 23:13.48 | xbmodder_lappy | don't sell them... |
| 23:15.21 | elg | -dict balkanize |
| 23:15.32 | elg | ~dict balkanize |
| 23:15.45 | lars-ut | ~dict vulcanize |
| 23:16.59 | *** join/#utah bzob_l (n=bzob_l@office-nat.singleedge.com) |
| 23:17.00 | lars-ut | hallucinate |
| 23:17.45 | lars-ut | desegregate |
| 23:18.36 | jsmith | disenfranchise |
| 23:22.36 | lars-ut | ~dict mediate |
| 23:22.44 | lars-ut | ~dict alleviate |
| 23:23.44 | elg | ~dict abbreviate |
| 23:25.45 | xbmodder_lappy | lala.... |
| 23:26.33 | lars-ut | ~Johnny Rotten |
| 23:26.34 | ibot | i heard johnny rotten is John Joseph Lydon (born January 31, 1956), also known as Johnny Rotten (a nickname derived from his favourite saying: You're rotten, you are) was the iconoclastic lead singer of the Sex Pistols and Public Image Ltd (PiL) and an Irish individualist anarchist. More info @ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Rotten |
| 23:26.37 | brac | [John Lydon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia] |
| 23:30.30 | maquis | Oct 17 17:29:31 osiris postfix/postalias[4996]: fatal: open /etc/postfix/main.cf: Permission denied |
| 23:30.34 | maquis | [osiris /etc] ls -lh /etc/postfix/main.cf |
| 23:30.37 | maquis | -rwxrwxrwx 1 erins erins 1.9K Sep 21 00:18 /etc/postfix/main.cf |
| 23:30.39 | maquis | why in the world is permission denied? |
| 23:33.13 | xbmodder_lappy | maquis, i think it gotta be owned by postfix: |
| 23:33.21 | xbmodder_lappy | lala. |
| 23:36.40 | maquis | xbmodder_lappy: meh |
| 23:54.45 | Tene | maquis: ls -ld /etc/postfix/ |