| 00:00.05 | maquis | mheath: i've got 5% battery left |
| 00:00.05 | mheath | One too many -roulettes, and..........*bang* :) |
| 00:00.12 | maquis | :) |
| 00:00.16 | maquis | -roulette |
| 00:00.16 | brac | maquis: chamber 5 of 6 => *BANG* |
| 00:00.19 | maquis | doh |
| 00:00.22 | maquis | -roulette |
| 00:00.22 | brac | maquis: chamber 1 of 6 => +click+ |
| 00:00.27 | mheath | I'm psychic :) |
| 00:00.32 | mheath | 3 on this one, I bet |
| 00:00.37 | maquis | -roulette |
| 00:00.37 | brac | maquis: chamber 2 of 6 => +click+ |
| 00:00.39 | mheath | -roulette |
| 00:00.39 | brac | mheath: chamber 3 of 6 => +click+ |
| 00:00.43 | mheath | or..not |
| 00:00.43 | maquis | -roulette |
| 00:00.44 | brac | maquis: chamber 4 of 6 => +click+ |
| 00:00.58 | maquis | -roulette |
| 00:00.58 | brac | maquis: chamber 5 of 6 => *BANG* |
| 00:01.10 | maquis | my computer just beeped at me |
| 00:01.30 | maquis | -roulette |
| 00:01.31 | brac | maquis: chamber 1 of 6 => +click+ |
| 00:01.35 | maquis | -roulette |
| 00:01.35 | brac | maquis: chamber 2 of 6 => +click+ |
| 00:01.37 | maquis | -roulette |
| 00:01.38 | brac | maquis: chamber 3 of 6 => +click+ |
| 00:01.40 | maquis | -roulette |
| 00:01.40 | brac | maquis: chamber 4 of 6 => +click+ |
| 00:01.52 | maquis | farewell for a bit |
| 00:12.46 | mheath | *NetBSD |
| 00:21.33 | mheath | Or not. |
| 00:21.40 | mheath | It doesn't support my network card....hrmm. |
| 00:22.57 | LiNoobux | that's no good |
| 00:24.18 | mheath | A decent OS....I'm fed up with all the Linux distributions out there.. |
| 00:25.01 | JoshH | thats when its time to just resign yourself to debian |
| 00:25.23 | JoshH | for all its flaws, its still the best distro overall |
| 00:25.42 | mheath | JoshH: I was thinking more in the BSD or Solaris categories |
| 00:25.53 | JoshH | i like freebsd a lot |
| 00:26.05 | JoshH | but you always bitch about its make. :P |
| 00:26.20 | JoshH | even though it has gmake too, for ports that need it |
| 00:26.38 | mheath | JoshH: how unfamiliar will it be for a Linux user? =\ |
| 00:27.10 | JoshH | it wont take too long to learn it |
| 00:27.38 | *** join/#utah synic (n=synic@pdpc/supporter/student/synic) |
| 00:27.47 | mheath | I'm thinking about giving Solaris a try first |
| 00:27.54 | mheath | I have an urge to try Unix out :) |
| 00:29.07 | JoshH | heh, i doubt you will like it better than linux in the long run |
| 00:35.16 | jnbek | except maybe the pkgsrc system |
| 00:37.45 | mheath | I need better access to a CD-RW drive...hmm |
| 00:47.52 | LiNoobux | are any of you part of oalug? |
| 00:57.24 | *** part/#utah LiNoobux (n=LiNoobux@c-67-171-122-139.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 00:57.31 | *** join/#utah LiNoobux (n=LiNoobux@c-67-171-122-139.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 01:14.53 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@67-41-182-14.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 01:18.17 | graphyx | Good evening. |
| 01:19.48 | maquis | ~lart graphyx |
| 01:27.20 | graphyx | maquis: Having a rough time in 330 again? |
| 01:34.20 | *** join/#utah richard_has_spok (n=Owner@dpc6746139215.direcpc.com) |
| 01:34.41 | richard_has_spok | wat is new? |
| 01:34.54 | hans | you haven't finished speak |
| 01:40.23 | *** part/#utah richard_has_spok (n=Owner@dpc6746139215.direcpc.com) |
| 01:50.01 | graphyx | goozbach what would that be? A sugar factory? |
| 01:51.10 | goozbach | graphyx: actually it's the new hawaiian punch slurpee |
| 01:52.51 | graphyx | now with more sugar? |
| 01:52.54 | graphyx | ~sugarrush |
| 01:56.17 | goozbach | I feel like I ingested pure slurpee syrup |
| 02:15.04 | *** join/#utah bigdog_ut (n=bigdog_u@shylonhunter.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 02:19.19 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (n=zaphod@c-24-2-80-89.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 02:19.53 | graphyx | Are you lamenting that fact? |
| 02:30.11 | *** join/#utah synic (n=synic@pdpc/supporter/student/synic) |
| 02:46.46 | vontrapp | sweet! new Internet Programming class at BYU http://cs.byu.edu |
| 02:46.46 | brac | [Home - BYU Computer Science Department] |
| 02:47.01 | vontrapp | http://von.fugal.net |
| 02:47.02 | brac | [Blog von Fugal/main/] |
| 02:47.06 | vontrapp | woah |
| 02:47.12 | vontrapp | http://www.google.com |
| 02:47.13 | brac | [Google] |
| 02:47.32 | *** part/#utah linuxalien (n=zaphod@c-24-2-80-89.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 02:54.03 | goozbach | brac: brac? |
| 02:54.03 | brac | beats me |
| 02:54.14 | goozbach | brac: help |
| 02:54.14 | brac | help topics: core, auth, keywords [30 plugins: 8ball, autoop, autorejoin, cal, dice, dns, excuse, fortune, freshmeat, host, insult|msginsult, karmastats|karma, lart, math, nickserv, opme, quotes, remind, roshambo, rot13, roulette, rps, search, seen, slashdot, spell, translate, urls, weather, wserver] (help <topic> for more info) |
| 02:57.46 | graphyx | -weather |
| 02:57.47 | brac | I don't know where you are yet! Lookup your code at http://www.nws.noaa.gov/tg/siteloc.shtml and tell me 'weather <code>', then I'll know. |
| 02:57.59 | graphyx | -8ball |
| 02:57.59 | brac | incorrect usage, ask for help using 'brac: help 8ball' |
| 03:00.00 | vontrapp | -weather kpvu |
| 03:00.00 | brac | 25 minutes ago, on Tue Oct 11 02:35:00 UTC 2005, the wind was blowing at a speed of 4.12 meters per second (9.21 miles per hour) from the Northwest at KPVU. The temperature was 11 degrees Celsius (52 degrees Fahrenheit), and the pressure was 1019 hPa (30.00 inHg). The relative humidity was 46.6%. The sky was clear. |
| 03:00.03 | vontrapp | -weather |
| 03:00.05 | brac | 25 minutes ago, on Tue Oct 11 02:35:00 UTC 2005, the wind was blowing at a speed of 4.12 meters per second (9.21 miles per hour) from the Northwest at KPVU. The temperature was 11 degrees Celsius (52 degrees Fahrenheit), and the pressure was 1019 hPa (30.00 inHg). The relative humidity was 46.6%. The sky was clear. |
| 03:00.10 | vontrapp | cool, he remembers you |
| 03:01.04 | graphyx | What would be the easiest way to do this |
| 03:01.09 | graphyx | I have a machine with 2 cards. |
| 03:01.21 | *** join/#utah hans (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 03:01.25 | graphyx | and I want to translate anything going to ip 192.168.0.2 to instead go to 192.168.0.3 |
| 03:01.32 | graphyx | from the machine on the one card. |
| 03:01.48 | graphyx | the rest of the network on the other side. |
| 03:01.57 | graphyx | Is this just an iptables thing? |
| 03:01.58 | goozbach | yup |
| 03:02.17 | graphyx | What about domain name translation inside of the packets? |
| 03:02.23 | graphyx | That a bit more difficult? |
| 03:02.32 | goozbach | nope just IP |
| 03:02.52 | goozbach | name you have to set up a proxy server |
| 03:04.22 | graphyx | k |
| 03:07.28 | hans | ~sing |
| 03:07.29 | ibot | ACTION sings loudly |
| 03:07.43 | vontrapp | ~lart oct |
| 03:07.50 | maquis | ~dance |
| 03:07.51 | ibot | "ah, ah, ah, ah, stayin' alive, stayin' alive" |
| 03:07.54 | hans | -lart vontrapp |
| 03:08.05 | maquis | -lart goozbach |
| 03:10.10 | *** join/#utah spr (n=spr@c-24-10-236-93.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 03:10.20 | goozbach | graphyx: what's the main goal? |
| 03:10.29 | goozbach | redirecting web trafic? |
| 03:10.36 | graphyx | yeah. |
| 03:10.38 | goozbach | natting a web server? |
| 03:10.42 | graphyx | But I am not too concerned about it. |
| 03:10.57 | graphyx | Well the main goal is fooling an application that is limited to connection to a single ip to another site. |
| 03:11.10 | graphyx | It's a security tool I want to evaluate and it is locked to a single ip. |
| 03:11.26 | graphyx | and I want to try it out against a different site. |
| 03:11.30 | goozbach | iptables with the REDIRECT target may be what you're looking for |
| 03:11.41 | graphyx | Ok. |
| 03:11.59 | graphyx | I'll look into that if they don't want to expand the usage of their tool. |
| 03:12.08 | graphyx | I told them that scanning my own site wasn't going to do much good. |
| 03:12.16 | graphyx | they didn't believe me. |
| 03:14.12 | maquis | from the computer stupidities website: |
| 03:14.21 | maquis | I was working as a lab assistant in a computer school. One of the assignments was to write up and print out a report using Microsoft Word. One of the students came to me complaining that he had written a beautiful report but that it wouldn't print correctly. His problem was that he had used Word art and had put some animated text in it and had assumed it would be animated on the printed page. |
| 03:15.10 | goozbach | ok. so if I were out of money... and my kids were starving... I'd be for getting a job. ANY job... |
| 03:15.26 | maquis | goozbach: ??? |
| 03:15.41 | maquis | that sounds cool |
| 03:15.47 | maquis | let me know when you get it |
| 03:15.48 | goozbach | so I can bitch about not having any money, and hope people support me. :) |
| 03:16.09 | hans | heh. who are you talking about? |
| 03:16.26 | goozbach | Tom Lord |
| 03:16.51 | hans | maybe he'll have time to make his tool useful now |
| 03:16.57 | hans | rather than just theoretically cool |
| 03:17.49 | goozbach | hans: if he would get to work, instead of theoretical work |
| 03:20.43 | graphyx | anyone work with rtsp previously? |
| 03:21.08 | hans | rtsp... real time streaming protocol? i almost coded up something that used it in a basic way, if that counts |
| 03:21.39 | graphyx | Just wondering about security implications of using it. |
| 03:23.39 | *** join/#utah levi (n=levi@levi.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 03:24.57 | hans | dunno |
| 03:25.04 | hans | depends probably on how it's used |
| 03:25.11 | hans | that's like asking the security implications of using http |
| 03:26.05 | graphyx | Yeah... I know. |
| 03:26.11 | graphyx | I am reading up on the RFC right now. |
| 03:26.17 | graphyx | Trying to find something that seems a bit fishy.. |
| 03:29.45 | hans | what's that? |
| 03:32.15 | maquis | hans: i think he's looking for something to play with for pentesting.... |
| 03:32.21 | maquis | that's my guess, at least |
| 03:33.32 | hans | well it sounds like he's on the trail of "something that seems a bit fishy" |
| 03:35.47 | levi | Good evening. |
| 03:36.14 | *** join/#utah Hhhhh (n=cristoba@c-67-169-244-47.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 03:39.21 | levi | Heya, Hhhhh. |
| 03:40.31 | Hhhhh | hey |
| 03:40.32 | graphyx | hans: Trying to figure out how a RTSP server could be a security liability. |
| 03:41.30 | *** join/#utah kei (i=kei@xmission.xmission.com) |
| 03:42.09 | kei | Eveing y'all. |
| 03:42.47 | Hhhhh | hello kei |
| 03:43.35 | kei | Any interesting conversational threads here tonight? |
| 03:44.25 | Hhhhh | I can give you one: all American sports suck except soccer |
| 03:44.34 | Hhhhh | football sucks |
| 03:44.38 | Hhhhh | basketball sucks |
| 03:44.44 | Hhhhh | baseball sucks the worst |
| 03:44.58 | hans | baseball can be ok fun with good people in a live setting |
| 03:45.05 | hans | but people who put baseball on TV should be shot |
| 03:45.06 | goozbach | and beer! |
| 03:45.10 | kei | I'll counter with paintball. |
| 03:45.10 | hans | especially when it preempts |
| 03:45.24 | hans | dont' forget hockey |
| 03:47.04 | kei | Most sports really have gone so commercial,with such an unhealthy emphasis on the spectacle of the players themselves that any element of sportsmanship and realy drama of the game is lost. |
| 03:47.11 | kei | </soapbox> |
| 03:48.01 | maquis | -roulette |
| 03:48.01 | brac | maquis: chamber 5 of 6 => *BANG* |
| 03:48.05 | maquis | doh! |
| 03:48.27 | hans | heh |
| 03:48.28 | hans | Recently in Barnes & Noble, I remarked to my friends, "I won't buy magazines because they're all full of ads. Why can't they make a magazine with no ads?", to which one friend responded, "What you want is a book." |
| 03:48.36 | maquis | nice to meet you |
| 03:48.45 | kei | Likewise. |
| 03:48.59 | hans | ~rlart |
| 03:49.00 | kei | So whereabouts are you from? |
| 03:49.14 | maquis | from? i'm living in prov at the moment |
| 03:49.16 | maquis | er |
| 03:49.17 | maquis | provo |
| 03:49.19 | goozbach | utah |
| 03:49.20 | maquis | you? |
| 03:49.23 | goozbach | I'm from utah |
| 03:49.46 | kei | Sandy UT |
| 03:49.50 | maquis | cool |
| 03:50.03 | kei | *shrug* I s'pose. |
| 03:50.04 | hans | I live on the moon |
| 03:50.34 | goozbach | actually I'm from utah, I now live in a higher state of awareness due to the drug caffiene |
| 03:50.51 | maquis | ~lart goozbach |
| 03:50.53 | kei | Moon, eh? I hear the seas can be quite tranquil during this phase. |
| 03:51.14 | hans | -weather |
| 03:51.15 | brac | 22 minutes ago, on Tue Oct 11 03:29:00 UTC 2005, the wind was blowing at a speed of 3.60 meters per second (8.06 miles per hour) from the North/Northwest at KLRU. The temperature was 13 degrees Celsius (55 degrees Fahrenheit), and the pressure was 1017 hPa (30.00 inHg). The relative humidity was 54.4%. There were scattered clouds at a height of 3353 meters (11000 feet). |
| 03:51.19 | maquis | # Customer: "I can't connect to you over the Internet." |
| 03:51.19 | maquis | # Tech Support: "Ok, what account name are you registered under?" |
| 03:51.20 | maquis | # Customer: "No, I'm not registered. I just made up things when it asked for my username and password." |
| 03:51.44 | kei | You a veteran of the geekly trades? |
| 03:52.19 | maquis | just reading funny stories |
| 03:52.23 | maquis | trying to avoid studying |
| 03:52.40 | kei | BYU or UVSC? |
| 03:52.48 | maquis | y |
| 03:53.36 | kei | ARGH, what be yer majoRRR? |
| 03:53.48 | maquis | cs |
| 03:54.06 | kei | So yes to the geekly trades then. Or close enough. |
| 03:54.16 | maquis | yes |
| 03:54.18 | kei | What've they got you working on right now? |
| 03:54.29 | maquis | all types of fun stuff |
| 03:54.38 | maquis | i need to be implementing RSA soon |
| 03:55.00 | kei | Not recoding the algorithm by hand, I hope. |
| 03:55.11 | maquis | pretty much |
| 03:55.15 | kei | Sheesh. |
| 03:55.18 | maquis | we did AES already... and diffie hellman |
| 03:55.54 | kei | Heh - it's nice to know, but more typically in the work force you just grab an OSS lib for <language of choice> and run with it. |
| 03:56.05 | maquis | yeah |
| 03:56.56 | kei | Ah well. Don't mean to overstep and tell you how to do anything. |
| 03:57.10 | kei | Any plans on what to do with it yet? and/or, how far from graduation? |
| 03:57.18 | maquis | graduate in august |
| 03:57.24 | maquis | got a job lined up already... |
| 03:58.01 | kei | Sweet! Congratulations. Where at, what doin? |
| 03:58.05 | maquis | amazon |
| 03:58.14 | maquis | probably doing security... but not sure yet |
| 03:58.45 | kei | Traitor. |
| 04:00.02 | maquis | haha |
| 04:01.01 | kei | How does one work this bot? |
| 04:01.09 | maquis | -roulette |
| 04:01.09 | brac | maquis: chamber 1 of 6 => +click+ |
| 04:01.15 | maquis | ~roulette |
| 04:01.17 | ibot | ACTION watches maquis pull the trigger: BANG! |
| 04:01.30 | maquis | kei: which bot do you want? |
| 04:01.31 | kei | Saw that one already - looking for the lexical directory. |
| 04:01.40 | kei | -roulette |
| 04:01.40 | brac | kei: chamber 2 of 6 => +click+ |
| 04:01.45 | kei | ~roulette |
| 04:01.46 | ibot | ACTION watches kei pull the trigger: Click! |
| 04:01.47 | maquis | -lart kei |
| 04:01.54 | maquis | ~lart kei |
| 04:01.57 | kei | Heh. 0 for 2, not bad. |
| 04:02.11 | kei | -help |
| 04:02.11 | brac | help topics: core, auth, keywords [30 plugins: 8ball, autoop, autorejoin, cal, dice, dns, excuse, fortune, freshmeat, host, insult|msginsult, karmastats|karma, lart, math, nickserv, opme, quotes, remind, roshambo, rot13, roulette, rps, search, seen, slashdot, spell, translate, urls, weather, wserver] (help <topic> for more info) |
| 04:02.32 | vontrapp | msginsult maquis |
| 04:02.33 | kei | Ooo! |
| 04:02.38 | kei | -slashdot |
| 04:02.39 | brac | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:02.39 | brac | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:02.39 | brac | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:02.39 | brac | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:02.39 | vontrapp | -msginsult ma |
| 04:02.41 | brac | insufficient "msginsult" auth (have 10, need 12) |
| 04:02.45 | vontrapp | msginsult maquis |
| 04:02.51 | vontrapp | ack |
| 04:02.57 | vontrapp | -msginsult maquis |
| 04:02.58 | brac | insufficient "msginsult" auth (have 10, need 12) |
| 04:03.08 | vontrapp | pbbphht |
| 04:03.24 | maquis | hans: can i get level 12 auth with brac? |
| 04:05.17 | kei | Sheesh. IRC is so much deader (in general) than I remember. |
| 04:05.32 | maquis | kei: this channel isn't the most alive around |
| 04:05.35 | kei | But then, I haven't used it consistently since early '99. |
| 04:05.36 | maquis | we have a lot of lurkers |
| 04:05.45 | kei | Aye, I can see that. |
| 04:05.54 | goozbach | ~lurk |
| 04:05.55 | ibot | ACTION lurks suspiciously in the corner of the room. |
| 04:06.09 | goozbach | see? |
| 04:06.21 | goozbach | even our bots lurk |
| 04:06.44 | maquis | mmmmm... |
| 04:06.56 | kei | ~lart maquis |
| 04:07.11 | kei | Ha ha, squirrels gotcher nuts. |
| 04:07.11 | maquis | ~lart kei |
| 04:07.20 | hans | kei: try #debian or #perl |
| 04:07.59 | kei | Nah, not really in the mood for on-topic chat. |
| 04:08.05 | kei | Well, not *that* on-topic anyway. |
| 04:08.11 | kei | I deal with enough of that at work. |
| 04:08.21 | vontrapp | kei: this channel can get quite lively at times |
| 04:08.23 | hans | heh. you obviously haven't been to #debian or #perl |
| 04:08.32 | kei | Point taken. |
| 04:08.33 | vontrapp | normally during bussiness hours when people are trying to avoid work |
| 04:08.49 | hans | it's like watching a hockey game where people don't wear pads |
| 04:09.08 | hans | i recommend going as a specator though, at least at first |
| 04:09.14 | hans | oh no, TheDiff left SLC! |
| 04:09.27 | TheDiff | yeah |
| 04:09.32 | TheDiff | it was fun |
| 04:09.38 | TheDiff | i didnt know there were bars in SLC |
| 04:09.56 | maquis | ~mock TheDiff |
| 04:09.58 | ibot | ACTION pulls TheDiff's pants down and shows the world TheDiff's pink spotted underwear |
| 04:10.11 | TheDiff | he's done that one already |
| 04:10.14 | TheDiff | get a new one |
| 04:10.15 | kei | ~mock me |
| 04:10.17 | ibot | ACTION pulls kei's pants down and shows the world kei's pink spotted underwear |
| 04:10.17 | vontrapp | hunk ./SLC |
| 04:10.25 | vontrapp | - TheDiff |
| 04:10.29 | TheDiff | but seriously |
| 04:10.36 | TheDiff | we stayed in the Sheraton |
| 04:10.37 | kei | -lart me |
| 04:10.47 | TheDiff | and went to the Tavernacle |
| 04:10.51 | TheDiff | that place is out of control |
| 04:11.06 | kei | You should try it during open mic night. |
| 04:11.34 | TheDiff | i went during duelling piano night |
| 04:11.58 | kei | re: brac's larting of me: I typically sign my brother up for ladies wig catalogs for his birtday. |
| 04:13.02 | TheDiff | so i was in alot of pain when i was in SLC |
| 04:13.12 | TheDiff | and then i came back and went to a doctor today |
| 04:13.15 | TheDiff | it ends up i had a cracked rib |
| 04:13.16 | kei | brb. |
| 04:13.19 | kei | exit |
| 04:13.27 | kei | Sorry - too used to command shells. |
| 04:13.56 | maquis | TheDiff: how? |
| 04:14.13 | TheDiff | i went surfing last saturday |
| 04:14.17 | TheDiff | as in, like 10 days ago |
| 04:14.30 | TheDiff | and it started hurting when iw as surfing, i dont remember an exact moment when i hurt it |
| 04:14.38 | *** join/#utah kei (i=kei@xmission.xmission.com) |
| 04:14.42 | kei | Better. |
| 04:14.46 | TheDiff | i just figured i had bruised my side |
| 04:14.51 | TheDiff | and that it would heal |
| 04:14.51 | kei | So where'd the cracked rib come from? |
| 04:14.56 | TheDiff | surfing |
| 04:15.35 | TheDiff | sneezing is probably the most painful thing you can ever do |
| 04:15.37 | TheDiff | with a cracked rib |
| 04:16.45 | kei | I'll bear that in mind. |
| 04:18.07 | TheDiff | haha |
| 04:21.47 | maquis | just don't get the hiccups |
| 04:22.16 | TheDiff | yeah |
| 04:23.38 | kei | I've never tried surfing. |
| 04:29.25 | maquis | TheDiff: you got x-rays online? |
| 04:30.39 | TheDiff | maquis: uh no |
| 04:30.46 | maquis | :( |
| 04:30.51 | TheDiff | they dont let us keep them |
| 04:30.58 | TheDiff | its my universities health center |
| 04:31.08 | maquis | some people take pictures when they're shown the x-rays |
| 04:31.13 | maquis | and then they can post them |
| 04:31.18 | hans | wow, can those newfangled flat screens do x-rays too? |
| 04:31.18 | TheDiff | hmm |
| 04:31.49 | kei | Which is a shame, because my little girl swallowed a coin the other day and came up with a doozy of an x-ray from that. |
| 04:32.00 | maquis | wow... |
| 04:32.00 | kei | (regarding not being able to keep them) |
| 04:32.04 | maquis | dime? |
| 04:32.07 | maquis | quarter? |
| 04:32.09 | maquis | nickle? |
| 04:32.13 | hans | suzie b |
| 04:32.24 | maquis | kei: how old? |
| 04:32.33 | kei | Only a penny, unforunately - but at 4 years old that's still enough to make a big difference. |
| 04:32.35 | hans | susan's actually long gone |
| 04:33.08 | maquis | nice |
| 04:33.47 | maquis | did have to go in to the doctors occasionally to get things out of my ears, though |
| 04:33.51 | kei | darwinports - is that the package site maintained by Chris Roberts? |
| 04:34.14 | kei | Worst I ever did was a quarter up the nose, but I could at least get it back out on my own. |
| 04:35.01 | goozbach | we'll not get into the crazy stuff I've done... |
| 04:35.30 | kei | That's just for anatomical insertion. |
| 04:35.41 | kei | The fun stories involve home chemistry sets. ;) |
| 04:35.49 | hans | kei: got me |
| 04:36.16 | kei | I always wanted one of these. |
| 04:36.57 | maquis | kei: how did you fit a quarter up your nose? |
| 04:37.17 | hans | ~explode |
| 04:37.19 | ibot | BOOOM |
| 04:37.19 | kei | It's all a matter of the angle. |
| 04:37.21 | maquis | goozbach: you should tell some of your stories... i wanna hear some new ones |
| 04:39.11 | goozbach | maquis: not tonight |
| 04:39.23 | hans | kei: you gotta get into the bot |
| 04:39.27 | hans | ~roulette |
| 04:39.29 | ibot | ACTION watches hans pull the trigger: BANG! |
| 04:40.18 | hans | who's the kde-lover in here again? |
| 04:41.02 | maquis | goozbach: why???? |
| 04:41.12 | kei | You trying the Mac OS X KDE port? |
| 04:41.12 | maquis | hans: not me!!!! |
| 04:41.22 | hans | no, qtruby |
| 04:41.48 | hans | but darwinports doesn't follow Qt's "let's stick everything under one directory" philosophy, and I'm wondering what my QTDIR should be set to, then. |
| 04:41.59 | *** join/#utah specialz (n=sjk36@weapons.cs.byu.edu) |
| 04:42.20 | hans | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:42.40 | kei | Pick one and symlink it. |
| 04:43.22 | *** join/#utah ScytheBlade1 (n=Death@c-67-171-124-6.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 04:43.44 | hans | say, there's an idea |
| 04:45.03 | *** join/#utah jnbek (n=jnbek@c-67-166-97-223.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 04:45.16 | hans | I'll mkdir /Developer/qt and symlink the pieces |
| 04:45.38 | kei | Good luck. |
| 04:47.03 | hans | I'm trying out darwinports' qt3 since the one straight from trolltech is showing some odd behavior |
| 04:47.06 | hans | http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.ruby/browse_frm/thread/fd7daa4329cd199a/3f8fbd7fc78656d4#3f8fbd7fc78656d4 |
| 04:47.07 | brac | [Google Groups : comp.lang.ruby |
| 04:47.07 | brac | ] |
| 04:49.47 | kei | That's a classy sign-off. |
| 05:01.09 | maquis | -dict incumbent |
| 05:01.25 | maquis | ~dict incumbent |
| 05:15.43 | *** join/#utah jsmith (n=jsmith@smithfam.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 05:24.19 | goozbach | sweet! no expenses this week for lunch, nor next week at all. |
| 05:24.37 | jsmith | Sweet! |
| 05:25.40 | xbmodder_lappy | anyone have some really fast DNS servers? |
| 05:26.29 | jsmith | xbmodder_lappy: Like everydns.net? |
| 05:27.24 | xbmodder_lappy | thats free and there willing to act as secondary dns.. :) |
| 05:27.43 | jsmith | Like everydns.net? |
| 05:27.55 | maquis | goozbach: why no expenses for lunch? |
| 05:29.08 | goozbach | maquis: lunch is catered this week |
| 05:29.32 | maquis | goozbach: nice |
| 05:30.51 | maquis | goozbach: why a catered lunch????? |
| 05:32.10 | goozbach | special class |
| 05:32.12 | xbmodder_lappy | jsmith, thanks |
| 05:32.21 | jsmith | xbmodder_lappy: np |
| 05:32.30 | maquis | goozbach: cool... what on? |
| 05:33.24 | goozbach | 120 stuff, 250 stuff and 275 stuff |
| 05:34.27 | maquis | cool |
| 05:34.40 | maquis | goozbach: which one's the security class? |
| 05:35.21 | xbmodder_lappy | jsmith, one problem: I need something that 200k records +/- 50k |
| 05:37.30 | goozbach | 510 and 550 |
| 05:41.26 | *** join/#utah markl_ (i=mark@dsl093-225-127.slc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 05:43.07 | jsmith | xbmodder: For free? You're nuts. |
| 05:43.22 | xbmodder_lappy | no |
| 05:43.27 | xbmodder_lappy | for 5 bucks a month |
| 05:43.41 | maquis | xbmodder_lappy: something that does what with 200k records? |
| 05:43.50 | maquis | hosts them? |
| 05:44.03 | maquis | 200k is not a verb |
| 05:44.07 | xbmodder_lappy | 200,000 |
| 05:44.17 | xbmodder_lappy | two-hundred-thousand |
| 05:44.17 | maquis | xbmodder_lappy: that's not a verb either |
| 05:44.24 | xbmodder_lappy | hosts |
| 05:44.29 | maquis | you need something that 200,000 records |
| 05:44.38 | maquis | hosts... that hels |
| 05:44.39 | maquis | er |
| 05:44.40 | maquis | helps |
| 05:44.46 | goozbach | jsmith: everything should be free... including enterprise level services |
| 05:45.14 | jsmith | goozbach: Yeah, but then you'd just pay more for "professional services" :-) |
| 05:46.02 | goozbach | xbmodder_lappy: I could lease you a virtual server which will do that easily... |
| 05:46.06 | goozbach | $30/month |
| 05:49.11 | goozbach | what on earth do you need so many records for? |
| 05:51.48 | goozbach | WTF? |
| 05:52.14 | goozbach | storing files in DNS? |
| 05:52.17 | jsmith | You heard me. |
| 05:52.23 | maquis | http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9629461/site/newsweek/ |
| 05:52.25 | brac | [Selling Songs for a Song - Newsweek Technology - MSNBC.com] |
| 05:52.45 | jsmith | You and I both think it is stupid, but some people think it's the greatest thing since sliced pickles... |
| 05:53.03 | goozbach | it's a great database |
| 05:53.25 | jsmith | Sure, for some things... |
| 05:53.34 | maquis | like dns entries |
| 05:53.36 | goozbach | I guess it's theoretically poossible |
| 05:54.22 | maquis | "And that's the problem\u2014lots of companies are making money from music, just not music companies." |
| 05:54.46 | maquis | wait... you mean people are figuring out how to make money??? how evil!!! |
| 05:55.36 | jsmith | maquis: No kidding... it's like capitalism is the new communism |
| 05:55.42 | maquis | jsmith: :) |
| 05:56.02 | maquis | i don't know how people could ever think that's ok |
| 05:56.09 | maquis | i mean... people are making money!!!! |
| 05:56.29 | goozbach | doh! tis midnight |
| 05:56.42 | goozbach | er cereal |
| 05:56.51 | jsmith | maquis: Yeah... I mean, making money makes you an evil person! Especially if you hire a bunch of employees so that you can make more money. |
| 05:56.57 | maquis | goozbach: wanna drop some off here? i'm out |
| 05:57.06 | maquis | no kidding |
| 05:57.11 | goozbach | maquis: that'd be a long trip to the store... |
| 05:57.12 | maquis | and getting stuff for free is even worse |
| 05:57.18 | maquis | goozbach: :) |
| 05:57.20 | goozbach | but what kind? |
| 05:57.25 | goozbach | I'm bored |
| 05:57.31 | maquis | goozbach: just some skim milk would be fine |
| 05:57.42 | goozbach | ohh, cinnimon life |
| 05:57.47 | jsmith | Skim? Yuck... |
| 05:57.53 | goozbach | I was just gonna get shredded wheat |
| 05:57.59 | maquis | jsmith: there wwas a quote last week from one of the RIAA people in response to a raid they had done at some music store |
| 05:58.31 | maquis | they said in essence that some of the cds were not packaged like those sold by the RIAA, and were therefore pirated |
| 05:58.48 | maquis | he failed to note that this was a store that sold a lot of garage-band/college-band music |
| 05:58.59 | jsmith | Figures. |
| 05:59.27 | maquis | therefore, they had a bust at the store, took the store owners/employees away in handcuffs, and closed the store down completely |
| 05:59.41 | maquis | naturally, any music not distributed by the RIAA is pirated |
| 05:59.51 | jsmith | maquis: Guilty until proven innocent, eh? |
| 05:59.56 | maquis | yup |
| 06:00.00 | maquis | the funny thing is... |
| 06:00.19 | maquis | the RIAA is apparently authorized to carry out raids in new york |
| 06:00.34 | maquis | and they have outfits that look almost identical to police uniforms |
| 06:00.39 | jsmith | not surprised |
| 06:00.45 | maquis | although... for that particular store, they worked with the law enforcement |
| 06:00.52 | maquis | they got a couple swat teams to help them out |
| 06:00.57 | goozbach | sounds like something to protect yourself with RICO |
| 06:01.10 | jsmith | Yup. |
| 06:01.14 | maquis | (because naturally... when raiding a cd store, you need swat teams... otherwise they might attack you with some.... uh... sharpened cds? |
| 06:01.43 | goozbach | don't forget about the 8-track nunkhucks |
| 06:01.51 | goozbach | however you spell that |
| 06:02.02 | goozbach | so... milk and cereal |
| 06:02.04 | goozbach | toodles |
| 06:02.09 | jsmith | Chao |
| 06:02.31 | goozbach | maquis: be there in ~45min |
| 06:02.38 | maquis | http://bbspot.com/News/2000/4/MS_Buys_Evil.html |
| 06:02.41 | maquis | goozbach: haha |
| 06:02.41 | brac | [BBspot - Microsoft Purchases Evil From Satan] |
| 06:03.01 | goozbach | she doesn't beleive me... |
| 06:03.15 | maquis | goozbach: i was joking about bringing me milk |
| 06:03.47 | xbmodder_lappy | jsmith, why not store files in DNS |
| 06:04.20 | xbmodder_lappy | goozbach, I don't want a whole DNS server to do it. |
| 06:30.36 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@216.190.206.130) |
| 06:31.46 | goozbach | DNS isn't built for that |
| 06:32.28 | jsmith | goozbach: Life or Shredded Wheat? |
| 06:32.45 | goozbach | jsmith: thanks for the suggestion |
| 06:32.49 | goozbach | both actually |
| 06:32.55 | jsmith | Which did you eat first? |
| 06:32.58 | goozbach | shredded wheat for the morning |
| 06:33.08 | goozbach | I'm munching down on life right now |
| 06:33.14 | goozbach | cinnimon life++ |
| 06:33.20 | jsmith | Good choice... |
| 06:33.40 | jsmith | If the server I was babysitting hadn't just come up, I'd have poured myself a bowl |
| 06:33.57 | goozbach | plastic dinnerware++ |
| 06:34.04 | goozbach | no dishes++ |
| 06:35.10 | maquis | a9 rocks |
| 06:35.54 | jsmith | No kidding... showing me what the streets look like before I decide to stay a mile from the convention I'm going to? Priceless... |
| 06:39.31 | goozbach | to bed with me |
| 06:39.32 | maquis | really? |
| 06:44.00 | jsmith | goozbach: Quick question. |
| 06:44.19 | jsmith | goozbach: Let's say I wanna use rsync over ssh to copy 30 gigs of data from one machine to another |
| 06:44.38 | jsmith | goozbach: Know of any way to temporarily turn off encryption, so that the data will sync faster? |
| 06:49.05 | bigdog_ut | jsmith which cipher are you using? |
| 06:49.44 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: That's the thing -- I want to turn off all cyphers :-) |
| 06:49.56 | bigdog_ut | i dont think you can |
| 06:50.19 | jsmith | Figures. |
| 06:50.43 | bigdog_ut | but you can try blowfish cipher which is a fast block cipher |
| 06:51.29 | goozbach | jsmith: I have a rot13 ssh transport layer for just such an occasion |
| 06:51.43 | jsmith | Naw, I'll just do it over RSH -- it's on the local lan, so I'm not too worried about it. |
| 06:51.54 | jsmith | Just wondering if you could do something like --cypher=none |
| 06:52.08 | bigdog_ut | that would be rsh right |
| 06:53.17 | jsmith | Exactly. |
| 06:53.42 | jsmith | (It would just beat turning on rsh in xinetd, adding rsh to /etc/securetty, and creating a .rhosts file) |
| 06:53.55 | bigdog_ut | yep |
| 06:54.10 | bigdog_ut | "contracting sucks but the money is good" -- bigdog_ut |
| 06:54.25 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: Amen, brother! |
| 06:54.41 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: FWIW, I got some free books to give away at the next meeting... |
| 06:54.48 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: Plus some other swag |
| 06:54.48 | bigdog_ut | nice |
| 06:54.51 | bigdog_ut | so do i |
| 06:54.55 | bigdog_ut | like tons |
| 06:55.08 | bigdog_ut | jsmith, some of your new books? |
| 06:55.14 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: Bingo! |
| 06:55.36 | jsmith | I talked them out of a couple of books for each of the LUGs, plus two for UPHPU |
| 06:55.45 | bigdog_ut | nice |
| 06:55.54 | jsmith | (Since there's a little bit about PHP in chapter 9) |
| 06:55.57 | bigdog_ut | yeah i saw they only give like 10 to you |
| 06:56.06 | jsmith | Uh, try 7. |
| 06:56.12 | jsmith | And they haven't shown up yet :-( |
| 06:56.20 | bigdog_ut | crap that sucks |
| 06:56.35 | jsmith | Well, if you're a sole author, you'll get 10. |
| 06:57.24 | jsmith | http://astri2005.netdr.biz/IMG_5885.JPG |
| 07:30.41 | *** join/#utah jnbek_ (n=jnbek@c-67-166-97-223.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 08:10.58 | *** join/#utah RyanE_ (n=ryan@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 08:13.32 | *** join/#utah mheath_ (i=mheath@c-67-161-213-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 13:51.34 | hans | how does one change a specific line in a file programattically? |
| 13:51.48 | vontrapp | vim? |
| 13:53.09 | hans | hmm, I suppose that could work. |
| 13:58.35 | hans | so does this |
| 13:58.41 | hans | sed -i '1360d' |
| 13:59.03 | *** join/#utah emcnabb_ (n=emcnabb@67-41-182-14.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 13:59.13 | hans | ~whale emcnabb |
| 14:01.27 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wade@66.237.80.85) |
| 14:03.59 | graphyx | ~lart ibot |
| 14:05.24 | mheath_ | Why am I so tired lately? :( |
| 14:05.52 | graphyx | You aren't a kid any more? |
| 14:06.10 | vontrapp | hans: sed -i -e <num>c\<newtext> |
| 14:07.02 | mheath_ | I've been late for school twice this year, because I have so much trouble dragging myself out of bed |
| 14:07.08 | mheath_ | I *never* used to have a problem like this |
| 14:07.31 | graphyx | try getting to bed earlier. |
| 14:08.02 | mheath_ | graphyx: I was in bed by 10:00 last night. I got |
| 14:08.09 | mheath_ | *I got 8 hours of sleep |
| 14:08.41 | mheath_ | (I'm taking my time getting ready, because, due to my schools attendance policy, I'll be marked absent from first period no matter what now |
| 14:22.52 | *** join/#utah tensai (n=tensai@207.141.37.66) |
| 14:37.47 | goozbach | bah! |
| 14:38.26 | mheath | Hmm, I wonder how much he wants for that Zaurus |
| 14:41.40 | *** join/#utah TLynson (n=tlynson@kei.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 14:41.47 | TLynson | -lart me |
| 14:42.00 | TLynson | ~lart me |
| 14:42.08 | *** part/#utah TLynson (n=tlynson@kei.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 14:42.27 | mheath | What would be a decent price for a Zaurus ZL-6000? |
| 14:42.33 | mheath | *SL |
| 14:42.59 | goozbach | I really need to write a cool revision control system |
| 14:43.32 | goozbach | or have a name like Dvorak |
| 14:43.36 | Uncle_Jesse | Good Morning all |
| 14:43.49 | goozbach | so I can be pompus,and have people praise me for it |
| 14:44.44 | Uncle_Jesse | What's the best place to live in the SLC area and get the most money on your home investment? |
| 14:44.52 | Uncle_Jesse | (I just posted to SLLUG the same question) |
| 14:45.33 | tensai | I've heard tell that Sir Gerald Nabardo has a pet prawn called Simon (you wouldn't call him a looney) |
| 14:46.25 | mheath | Uncle_Jesse: most of the time, when you get a trully great return on a home/property investment, its somewhat accidental/unforseeable |
| 14:46.35 | Uncle_Jesse | mheath: not in VA |
| 14:46.55 | Uncle_Jesse | Just about any home you buy here will go up 10k in the next couple years |
| 14:47.01 | Uncle_Jesse | at least |
| 14:47.23 | mheath | Uncle_Jesse: Oh, you're talking about little increases like that |
| 14:47.53 | Uncle_Jesse | well, more preferrably, but I'm just curious what areas of the Valley are likely to increase the most |
| 14:48.13 | goozbach | sit on it > ten years and you'll be fine just about anywhere |
| 14:48.17 | goozbach | other than magna. |
| 14:48.35 | sjansen | goozbach: you can be pompous right now if you want to |
| 14:48.44 | Uncle_Jesse | goozbach: so don't live in Magna, right? |
| 14:48.54 | goozbach | sjansen: true, but have people praise me for it? |
| 14:49.07 | goozbach | Uncle_Jesse: I didn't say that |
| 14:49.24 | goozbach | you can get a dirt cheap house in magna |
| 14:49.38 | goozbach | just don't expect it to grow in value very fast |
| 14:49.42 | mheath | As you can in Ogden |
| 14:49.51 | Uncle_Jesse | thanks |
| 14:49.58 | Uncle_Jesse | goozbach: what is this new daybreak community? |
| 14:50.16 | mheath | Uncle_Jesse: home developer community |
| 14:50.42 | mheath | (bunch of houses that look the same, which have annoying radio adds advertising that their schools have a community center attatched) |
| 14:50.45 | Uncle_Jesse | mheath: what area of the valley is it in? |
| 14:51.04 | mheath | Jordan-ish area |
| 14:51.13 | sjansen | goozbach: at least you get payed to spend all day spouting off |
| 14:51.23 | Uncle_Jesse | Are there any affordable new homes on the East side by chance? |
| 14:51.34 | Uncle_Jesse | I have to commute to Park City |
| 14:52.02 | Uncle_Jesse | "have" I guess is a relative term |
| 14:52.26 | goozbach | east side and affordable in the same sentance... |
| 14:52.30 | goozbach | HAH! |
| 14:52.34 | mheath | I have an uncle and cousin that live up near Ft. Douglas |
| 14:53.00 | Uncle_Jesse | sjansen: now I will be a mysterious voice from the North |
| 14:53.14 | Uncle_Jesse | that you actually have to look at every so often |
| 14:53.23 | mheath | Hah |
| 14:53.34 | mheath | Theres a furnace installer here |
| 14:53.41 | mheath | That sells a brand of furnace called "Lennox" |
| 14:53.57 | mheath | Yet, on their TV commercials, they don't do a particularly great job of pronouncing it |
| 14:54.16 | mheath | "Your new [Linux] system will be more functional and efficient than your existing system" |
| 14:54.27 | *** join/#utah RyanE (n=ryan@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 14:54.44 | Uncle_Jesse | lol |
| 14:55.06 | mheath | I just heard the audio at first |
| 14:55.15 | sjansen | http://www.unix-girl.com/blog/archives/2005/10/tv_news_is_a_di.html |
| 14:55.17 | brac | [kasia in a nutshell: TV news is a disgrace] |
| 14:55.20 | mheath | and they word everything in a way that seriously made me think it was Linux ad |
| 14:56.25 | Uncle_Jesse | open source heating - now that's what will overcome the gas shortages |
| 14:56.44 | sjansen | And I recently re-subscribed to the Economist. :-) |
| 14:56.56 | mheath | Uncle_Jesse: my linux system already heats my house |
| 14:57.02 | mheath | although I don't know about efficiently.... |
| 14:57.08 | sjansen | ~hug redeeming airline miles for magazine subscriptions |
| 14:57.09 | ibot | ACTION hugs redeeming airline miles for magazine subscriptions |
| 14:57.16 | Uncle_Jesse | mheath: lol - come to think of it mine does too |
| 14:57.23 | Uncle_Jesse | unfortunately it does it in the summer as well |
| 14:58.28 | Uncle_Jesse | darn - Jayce isn't here - he's the one that always complained |
| 14:59.14 | sjansen | Uncle_Jesse: I think I can do an effective job in Jayce^'s abscense |
| 14:59.21 | sjansen | ~destroy gmail |
| 14:59.22 | ibot | no |
| 14:59.28 | sjansen | yes! |
| 15:00.10 | *** join/#utah osynic (n=synic@66.239.17.226.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 15:00.27 | sjansen | It never ceases to amaze me that such a Net smart, community friendly company continues to push such an anti-social tool. |
| 15:01.21 | sjansen | gmail not only ignores long standing convention developed by widespread experience, it actively encourages its users to misbehave |
| 15:01.36 | graphyx | sjansen: In what way? |
| 15:02.19 | hans | -spell reproduceable |
| 15:02.20 | brac | reproduceable: reproduce able, reproduce-able |
| 15:02.55 | sjansen | It encourages top posting. It hides content thereby discouraging trimming. It ignores threading trying instead to replace it with "conversations" as if all mail where between only two people instead of a branching and expansive group experience. |
| 15:03.54 | sjansen | Not only does it throw away useful branching information, it encourages thread jacking by giving the false impression that you can turn one "conversation" into a new one. |
| 15:04.16 | sjansen | In some ways, it is worse that Outlook. Although at least it does preserve the thread id. |
| 15:04.33 | sjansen | In fact, in many ways it is worse than outlook. |
| 15:06.09 | hans | but at least he won't break threads |
| 15:06.50 | *** join/#utah phinux (n=phinux@iocane.cs.byu.edu) |
| 15:08.43 | Uncle_Jesse | sjansen: okay - I'll switch back to using Outlook at work then |
| 15:08.52 | Uncle_Jesse | Jayce was the one pushing me to use gmail |
| 15:09.11 | Uncle_Jesse | At my new place I'll have a laptop with Linux on it - maybe I'll just use that |
| 15:09.22 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 15:09.33 | Uncle_Jesse | I hate cluttering personal e-mail with list messages |
| 15:15.17 | *** join/#utah bzob_l (n=bzob_l@nat.myfamilyinc.com) |
| 15:17.35 | hans | Uncle_Jesse: i prefer you use gmail too |
| 15:18.18 | Uncle_Jesse | hans: thanks for the encouragement :-) |
| 15:21.36 | sjansen | Uncle_Jesse: gmail is better as long as you use it wisely |
| 15:22.25 | tensai | Uncle_Jesse: send sjansen a preview of all your posts and make sure they look ok |
| 15:41.31 | *** join/#utah levi (n=levi@66.239.25.2.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 15:42.05 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@12.110.19.201) |
| 15:42.05 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 15:42.45 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@208-186-97-26.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 15:46.01 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 15:47.24 | levi | Morning. |
| 15:48.40 | RyanE | levi: morning. |
| 15:48.50 | levi | How's it going? |
| 15:49.04 | RyanE | good. been putting off getting a driver done, need to finish it today. |
| 15:49.33 | RyanE | and you? |
| 15:50.05 | levi | Tired, and I've got a lot of homework to do after work. |
| 15:51.01 | levi | Got some work to do at work, too, but at least there's less pressure there. ;) |
| 15:51.10 | RyanE | you're in the BS program, right (i.e. not PHD or Masters)? |
| 15:51.20 | levi | Yeah. |
| 15:51.47 | levi | Mostly I'm learning to spew BS into papers. This term has been really light on programming. |
| 15:52.14 | RyanE | I remember CS404. I could spit out those 10-pagers pretty quickly. |
| 15:53.07 | RyanE | but yeah, I don't miss the homework. |
| 15:53.09 | levi | The really annoying one is this English class that's for science and technology research writing. |
| 15:53.49 | RyanE | I had a technical writing class for one of my English. It was a breeze. Kind of a waste, really. |
| 15:54.15 | levi | The prof seems incredibly anal about proper APA style. I can write well, but looking up all the niggling details for the proper formatting is ANNOYING and time consuming. |
| 15:55.30 | RyanE | I figure as long as you know where to look it up, that's something that doesn't need to be taking up space in my brain. |
| 15:55.50 | RyanE | and if you happen to know when to apply it, and when it doesn't matter. |
| 16:30.04 | jeb | Hans: got a minute for sametime? |
| 16:33.16 | tensai | levi: I can count the number of times since I graduated that I needed to use APA formatting on one hand, and still have plenty of fingers left over |
| 16:34.02 | levi | tensai: Oh, I have no doubt that this information will be totally useless to me. The credit, on the other hand, will help me graduate. And if I get an A or B, I will be fully reimbursed for my pain. |
| 16:34.59 | tensai | levi: work your butt off to break even. sounds like a great deal. |
| 16:35.12 | tensai | the degree of course is probably worth it |
| 16:35.20 | levi | Well, not /fully/. One cannot reimburse for the emotional scarring caused by anal style-guide adherence, but the scars will fade in time. ;) |
| 16:36.29 | hans | he didn't say necessarily that he was working like a slave, just that the work was stupid and annoying. :) |
| 16:36.51 | levi | I am actually doing less work on it than I should. |
| 16:36.54 | hans | 2 midterms down and one to go |
| 16:36.59 | hans | and it's a take-home |
| 16:37.12 | tensai | "I've got a lot of homework to do after work" |
| 16:37.15 | levi | My OS midterm is take-home, too. It consists mostly of... a paper. :/ |
| 16:37.18 | tensai | sounds like a lot of work to me |
| 16:37.32 | hans | oh, well a lot of work in general. i didn't catch that it was all one class |
| 16:37.42 | hans | but then I haven't been paying attention |
| 16:37.44 | tensai | I suppose I assumed |
| 16:38.02 | levi | tensai: Well, a lot of work in the next couple of days. The amount varies depending on how many classes have assignments due at the same time, and how much I spread the work out by doing things before they're due. |
| 16:38.06 | hans | been doing my own homework which is much more like what levi wishes he was doing. :) |
| 16:38.11 | tensai | hans: you did see that jeb is looking for you? |
| 16:38.17 | hans | yeah |
| 16:38.29 | levi | hans: My design patterns homework assignments are the only ones I don't have trouble motivating myself to do. |
| 16:42.05 | levi | So, I had a few hours to work on homework last night, and instead I hacked on my Common Lisp port of the Markdown text markup language, which I want to integrate with my blog. |
| 16:42.14 | levi | Gah. |
| 16:42.52 | hans | making a parser should always count in lieu of CS homework, IMHO |
| 16:42.54 | hans | :) |
| 16:43.34 | levi | Parsing Markdown is also not a trivial endeavor. |
| 16:44.20 | levi | What I've down so far is largely a port of the Python version, though I've discarded the objects in favor of higher-order functions. |
| 16:46.09 | levi | I've hit my flex-time cap, though, so I'm taking tomorrow off work so I have extra homework time. |
| 16:48.24 | sjansen | ~hug ruby |
| 16:48.25 | ibot | ACTION hugs ruby |
| 16:53.46 | *** part/#utah phinux (n=phinux@iocane.cs.byu.edu) |
| 16:55.31 | levi | sjansen: So, you're on good terms with Ruby again? |
| 17:03.56 | *** join/#utah spr (n=spr@ramona.cs.byu.edu) |
| 17:19.29 | sjansen | levi: I can't stay mad at Ruby. It's just so beautiful. |
| 17:23.03 | goozbach | amaya... could it be? A wysiwyg html editor I can like!? |
| 17:23.27 | maquis | what? |
| 17:23.31 | maquis | there can't be such a thing |
| 17:24.00 | goozbach | it IS standards compliant |
| 17:24.16 | sjansen | goozbach: amaya isn't crashing ever few minutes? |
| 17:24.34 | goozbach | hasn't yet |
| 17:24.45 | goozbach | and there are some visual artifacts |
| 17:25.00 | goozbach | but for the most part, choosing css stuff is prety cool |
| 17:31.18 | sjansen | ~lart thread-jackers |
| 17:32.35 | Uncle_Jesse | didn't amaya used to be the browser w3c provided to test standards compatibility? |
| 17:36.16 | sjansen | Uncle_Jesse: something like that, at any rate, yes, amaya is a w3c project |
| 17:36.18 | goozbach | its an editor now |
| 17:36.26 | sjansen | ~curse thread-jackers |
| 17:36.27 | ibot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, thread-jackers ! |
| 17:36.59 | sjansen | Hhhhhmmmmmm, some of them probably already are. Perhaps something worse is in order. |
| 17:38.57 | *** join/#utah hans (n=fugalh@dhcp29.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 17:39.06 | sjansen | ~ridicule thread-jackers |
| 17:39.07 | ibot | ACTION drops thread-jackers in a tank of pink paint and herring |
| 17:47.40 | *** join/#utah hans (n=fugalh@dhcp29.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 17:53.20 | *** join/#utah AgoraCart (n=AgoraCar@71-36-80-230.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 18:03.13 | *** join/#utah amcnabb (n=amcnabb@128.187.223.107) |
| 18:35.00 | *** join/#utah hans (n=fugalh@dhcp29.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 18:42.22 | *** join/#utah spr (n=spr@128.187.243.64) |
| 18:45.43 | Tene | [tene@gandhi ~]$ ps -utene|grep gaim|wc -l |
| 18:45.43 | Tene | 117 |
| 18:46.10 | hans | neat |
| 18:46.26 | Tene | quite |
| 18:46.38 | Tene | especially accompanied by some system instability |
| 18:46.42 | Tene | methinks I have a problem |
| 18:51.42 | graphyx | you have 117 sessions of gaim running? |
| 18:51.55 | graphyx | I guess you can answer a resounding "yes" is someone says.. got gaim? |
| 18:53.28 | goozbach | [dcarter@zonoma ~]$ ps -u tene |grep gaim | wc -l > foo |
| 18:53.32 | goozbach | 0 |
| 18:53.44 | goozbach | looks like I'm not having that problem :) |
| 18:53.52 | Tene | >foo? |
| 18:54.18 | Tene | why >foo? |
| 18:54.27 | goozbach | I don't have a tene account and forgot to strip the redirect |
| 18:54.39 | goozbach | i get the ps help output on stdrr |
| 18:54.43 | goozbach | stderr |
| 18:54.46 | Tene | ahh |
| 18:55.47 | *** join/#utah JoshH (i=josh@josh.xmission.com) |
| 18:56.28 | Tene | no, not 117 sessions of gaim, gaim has forked 117 processes |
| 18:56.39 | Tene | and I can't seem to be able to kill any of them |
| 18:57.05 | Bradipo | Stuck on I/O? |
| 18:57.26 | Tene | probably |
| 18:57.36 | Tene | I have major sound issues on this box. |
| 18:57.39 | levi | Is it forked, or are they threads? |
| 18:57.41 | Tene | it's probably related to that |
| 18:57.46 | Tene | not sure. how could I tell? |
| 18:58.04 | levi | Dunno off the top of my head, but threads do show up in a process list. |
| 18:58.12 | Bradipo | Not sure how to tell the difference. |
| 19:05.44 | *** join/#utah hans (n=fugalh@hfugal.NMSU.Edu) |
| 19:13.06 | Bradipo | |
| 19:13.29 | emcnabb | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:13.58 | Tene | |
| 19:15.42 | levi | Hmm, you guys are apparently using an encoding incompatible with my client. |
| 19:16.16 | hans | mine too, and I'm UTF-8 |
| 19:16.21 | Tene | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:16.22 | hans | so officially, they're just plain incomatible. |
| 19:17.54 | Bradipo | hans: Actually, I was curious what xchat was doing... |
| 19:18.07 | Bradipo | I hit ctrl-k (emacs for kill the line) and it printed a bunch of strange looking characters. |
| 19:18.19 | Tene | |
| 19:18.34 | Bradipo | I can't read any of what emcnabb Tene sjansen are saying. |
| 19:20.03 | emcnabb | we were just sending blank spaces |
| 19:20.03 | vontrapp | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:20.09 | Bradipo | Oh. |
| 19:20.11 | emcnabb | atleast I was |
| 19:20.17 | hans | heh |
| 19:20.19 | hans | -weather |
| 19:20.20 | brac | 31 minutes ago, on Tue Oct 11 18:49:00 UTC 2005, the wind was blowing at a speed of 3.60 meters per second (8.06 miles per hour) from the South/Southwest at KLRU. The temperature was 21 degrees Celsius (70 degrees Fahrenheit), and the pressure was 1019 hPa (30.00 inHg). The relative humidity was 32.8%. The sky was clear. |
| 19:20.20 | vontrapp | that's all i saw |
| 19:20.35 | sjansen | ~slap hans |
| 19:20.39 | ibot | ACTION slaps hans, keep your grubby fingers to yourself! |
| 19:20.39 | vontrapp | *sigh* |
| 19:20.50 | hans | you mean, keep my beautiful weather to myself? |
| 19:21.06 | sjansen | hans: darn tootin'! |
| 19:21.24 | Tene | I was sending a "normal formatting" character |
| 19:22.28 | Uncle_Jesse | -forecast |
| 19:22.52 | Uncle_Jesse | ~forecast |
| 19:23.02 | sjansen | -market forecast |
| 19:23.25 | hans | sjansen: some company is offering prizes for a programming competition in that field |
| 19:25.16 | hans | my initial reaction is they're throwing money at a problem and hoping to get a good solution from a really good programmer student that will do the hard work for them for what amounts to peanuts (although the first prize is quite large, I think it's not large enough for a really good solution, so they're probably shooting for the gem hiding in the flood of lame entries) |
| 19:33.21 | *** join/#utah hans (n=fugalh@hfugal.NMSU.Edu) |
| 19:43.44 | *** join/#utah hans (i=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 19:50.28 | levi | hans: Network troubles? |
| 20:05.53 | Uncle_Jesse | is hans in new mexico now? |
| 20:06.01 | levi | Yup. |
| 20:07.12 | Uncle_Jesse | he didn't hear about the mass migration back to Utah then I take it |
| 20:10.38 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@12.110.19.201) |
| 20:10.38 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 20:18.35 | levi | What mass migration back to Utah? |
| 20:20.26 | sjansen | Uncle_Jesse is moving himself (and presumably his family) back to Utah. |
| 20:21.05 | sjansen | As it turns out, this is a noticeable migration of mass. |
| 20:21.28 | levi | Heh. |
| 20:21.50 | RyanE | and don't forget the bot-master, TimRiker, who just moved back. |
| 20:22.04 | levi | Hrm. Actually, my cousin and her family are moving back to Utah, too. |
| 20:22.14 | RyanE | so for a sample size of 3, 100% of people are returning to Utah. |
| 20:22.45 | levi | L,DL&S ;) |
| 20:23.58 | RyanE | yep. 6 months ago, I didn't know me no statistics, and now *I are one*! |
| 20:25.11 | sjansen | RyanE: Unless there's more than one of you, that should be "I be one". |
| 20:25.15 | Uncle_Jesse | my Bishop just moved back to Utah |
| 20:25.47 | hans | bet that makes it hard to do interviews |
| 20:26.06 | Uncle_Jesse | Once a Bishop, always a Bishop :-) |
| 20:27.59 | RyanE | sjansen: That was the point. My non-hick-alter-ego wouldn't say 'know me no', either. :) |
| 20:28.27 | RyanE | i.e. my hick is numerically challenged as well as grammatically. |
| 20:28.45 | sjansen | RyanE: :-P |
| 20:29.47 | sjansen | RyanE: You seem to have missed my none-too-subtle reference to grammar nazis that don't know proper grammar themselves. |
| 20:30.11 | sjansen | RyanE: I be'd joining in your joke. |
| 20:31.12 | RyanE | sjansen: Claro. That whole subtlety thing escapes me. |
| 20:33.32 | emcnabb | yum... pie... |
| 20:33.43 | maquis | pie???? |
| 20:34.49 | emcnabb | 4 different types in fact |
| 20:40.33 | maquis | emcnabb: banana cream? |
| 20:40.41 | hans | does the empty string have odd length? |
| 20:41.12 | maquis | hans: my guess is that it'd be considered even |
| 20:41.28 | hans | you never know. 1 isn't a prime number |
| 20:41.44 | levi | 0 is even, at least according to Wikipedia. |
| 20:42.25 | hans | that was a fun homework. |
| 20:42.34 | hans | so we got our take-home midterm today, it's due the 24th |
| 20:42.50 | maquis | hans: what was the hw? |
| 20:42.53 | hans | it's more like a homework and programming project, than a midterm. |
| 20:43.06 | levi | Best kind of midterm! |
| 20:43.53 | hans | maquis: http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~epontell/courses/cs510/hw/hw5.05.pdf |
| 20:43.55 | Tene | hans: does string length include a terminator? |
| 20:44.04 | hans | levi: oh yeah |
| 20:44.07 | hans | Tene: no |
| 20:44.11 | goozbach | rubarb pie++ |
| 20:44.15 | goozbach | hmmmyummy |
| 20:44.26 | maquis | goozbach: banana cream is better! |
| 20:44.27 | emcnabb | goozbach, I just at 4 pieces of pie |
| 20:44.30 | RyanE | goozbach: I'm with you on that one. We grow our own rhubarb for that. |
| 20:44.40 | goozbach | almost as good as cheesecake |
| 20:44.40 | hans | no pie beats rhubarb pie |
| 20:44.58 | RyanE | with ice cream, that's the truth. without, pecan wins by a nose. |
| 20:45.11 | goozbach | amen hans, except maybe straberry-rhubarb ala mode |
| 20:45.13 | hans | except maybe a small slice of pecan |
| 20:45.36 | hans | i love pecan pie but can't handle the sugar content of a large piece. :) |
| 20:45.37 | RyanE | strawberry-rhubarb? Bastard son of the true Rhubarb pie. Waste of rhubarb. |
| 20:45.50 | maquis | haha |
| 20:46.00 | maquis | i do like rhubarb, but i still hold to my banana cream claim |
| 20:46.08 | RyanE | hans: yeah, me too, but I have a high tolerance to sugar. |
| 20:46.14 | hans | banana cream is for comedy shows |
| 20:46.25 | hans | ~pie maquis |
| 20:46.28 | ibot | ACTION hits maquis in the face with a cream pie |
| 20:46.39 | hans | ibot, you forgot the bananas |
| 20:46.44 | RyanE | I used to get Carmel-Marshmallow milkshakes at Bennett's drive-in in Delta. I can still taste the extreme sugar. |
| 20:46.58 | RyanE | cheese curds and milkshake. Mmmmm. |
| 20:46.59 | maquis | *sniff* |
| 20:47.16 | sjansen | ~praise rhubarb |
| 20:47.18 | ibot | All hail rhubarb! |
| 20:47.19 | hans | ew, after sniffing it? |
| 20:47.57 | *** join/#utah Peregrine (n=lamontp@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 20:48.19 | sjansen | ~pie Peregrine |
| 20:48.20 | ibot | ACTION hits Peregrine in the face with a cream pie |
| 20:48.29 | maquis | Peregrine: sup? |
| 20:48.34 | Peregrine | ~pie sjansen |
| 20:48.36 | ibot | ACTION hits sjansen in the face with a cream pie |
| 20:48.55 | maquis | hao jiu bu jian! :) |
| 20:49.06 | Peregrine | hey, Maquis. I'm just here for the pie :). |
| 20:49.12 | maquis | :) |
| 20:53.33 | Peregrine | The Rhubarb pie was delicious. |
| 20:55.26 | maquis | so... i hear that there were 4 types of pie, but the only one i'm hearing about is rhubarb... |
| 20:55.30 | maquis | what else is there |
| 20:55.31 | maquis | ? |
| 20:56.50 | levi | I've decided that Markdown.pl and markdown.py are both nasty disgusting regex-filled hacks. Although I've already written a log of code in the style of markdown.py, I'm thinking of starting over and building some better parsing tools on the way. |
| 20:56.51 | sjansen | sour cream and blueberry, pecan, lemon merangue |
| 20:57.45 | hans | levi: my dream is something that takes a bnf with regexes (i.e. terminals are regexes) and spits out a parser that generates a parse tree |
| 20:57.55 | hans | which you can then walk at your liesure to make an AST |
| 20:58.52 | sjansen | hans: my dream is free pie... oh, wait... |
| 20:59.03 | hans | ~steal pie |
| 20:59.05 | ibot | ACTION grabs pie and gives it to sjansen |
| 20:59.06 | levi | hans: That's to combine the lexer and parser into a single grammar? |
| 20:59.15 | hans | right |
| 20:59.23 | mheath | I should make rhubarb pie |
| 20:59.29 | hans | and why not? |
| 20:59.53 | levi | hans: I'm looking at Parsing Expression Grammars right now, which achieve the same goal through different means. |
| 21:00.24 | levi | They have an advantage of being able to match non-context-free grammars. |
| 21:00.53 | sjansen | ~lart the many abuses of the verb to get |
| 21:00.59 | levi | You can build recursive-descent or packrat parsers with them. |
| 21:01.07 | levi | mheath: What's your cool idea? |
| 21:02.04 | hans | -lart recursive descent |
| 21:02.12 | mheath | basically, a wireless, textbook-sized, touchscreen terminal |
| 21:02.29 | hans | it's called a laptop |
| 21:02.43 | mheath | hans: when did "terminal == computer"? |
| 21:02.59 | hans | the same day car innards got computers |
| 21:03.03 | mheath | A lot more goes into it, too, though |
| 21:03.09 | maquis | mheath: what are you thinking as far as terminal? |
| 21:03.31 | hans | actually, whil I call them laptops, people that can actually afford them call them tablet PCs |
| 21:03.52 | maquis | the doctors at the clinic i worked at had little touch-screen tablets that they used for accessing all patient data |
| 21:04.09 | maquis | they were smaller than textbook-sized... |
| 21:04.12 | levi | hans: Recursive descent is quite easy to create and very easy to understand. Add memoization and you have linear execution time--a packrat parser. Space efficiency goes down, but it's still linear on the stack size. |
| 21:04.15 | hans | like PADDs |
| 21:04.17 | mheath | maquis: sort of like that, but just a terminal |
| 21:04.18 | maquis | at least smaller than most of my textbooks |
| 21:04.30 | maquis | mheath: like i asked... what do you mean by terminal? |
| 21:04.34 | mheath | Just a touchscreen, an embedded processor, a tiny bit of ROM, and a wireless connection |
| 21:04.45 | levi | hans: And it's more powerful than CFG-based parsers, too. |
| 21:04.50 | mheath | maquis: gathers input, relays it to a server or computer, and displays the server or computers output |
| 21:04.56 | maquis | so... if you are out of range of wireless connectivity, it's dead |
| 21:05.00 | hans | levi: easy to create and understand yup. The problem is that people are still creating and understanding parsers instead of having quality tools to generate the |
| 21:05.03 | hans | m |
| 21:05.06 | sjansen | So basically what the VNC developers have. |
| 21:05.13 | mheath | maquis: Not necessarily. |
| 21:05.29 | levi | hans: PEGs create them for you, though. |
| 21:05.34 | maquis | mheath: well, if it can only display what the server has, then it's useless without access |
| 21:05.44 | levi | hans: Rather, can be used to create them. |
| 21:06.02 | mheath | maquis: It would have some solid state media, as well as a ROM. |
| 21:06.03 | levi | mheath: Are you familar with MIT's $100 laptop project? |
| 21:06.21 | mheath | levi: have they produced a $100 laptop yet? |
| 21:06.22 | mheath | :) |
| 21:06.34 | sjansen | maquis: Microsoft has plans for a version of Windows that runs some things locally, others from a central server |
| 21:06.44 | levi | mheath: I believe they've got a prototype that could be produced for ~$100 in bulk. |
| 21:06.50 | maquis | mheath: ok... so, you've explained this.. where would it be used? who would use it, etc... |
| 21:06.50 | sjansen | A way of selling more copies of Windows without requiring people to buy new hardware. |
| 21:06.55 | maquis | sjansen: meh |
| 21:07.09 | levi | mheath: I don't think decreasing computing power would actually make it cheaper. |
| 21:07.45 | levi | mheath: There's a sweet spot in the semiconductor industry. If you go too far backward, things get expensive again. |
| 21:07.53 | levi | Because there's so little demand. |
| 21:08.33 | hans | levi: PEGs? Anyway, I don't much care what the generated parser uses underneath, I just want a quick road from grammar (and terminal regexes) to a parse tree |
| 21:08.37 | mheath | maquis: Schools. Schools purchase one of these $200 (I've been pricing things, It would be around there) wireless tablet-terminals and a multi-processor controlling server (or two). They do all this, and spend less than your average middle-class-community highschool spends on equipping their computer labs. |
| 21:08.43 | mheath | er |
| 21:08.53 | mheath | *purchase one of the $200 tablet-terminals for *every student* |
| 21:08.59 | levi | mheath: At the very least, you should check out where the MIT project is at. They're doing some interesting things with networking them as well. |
| 21:09.03 | hans | although I admit I like writing parser-like stuff, it is nevertheless a pointless tedium that should be tooled away |
| 21:09.06 | maquis | mheath: ok... do the students take them home? |
| 21:09.20 | levi | hans: Parsing Expression Grammars, which are what I told you I'm looking into right now. |
| 21:09.26 | maquis | do the students get free internet access at home so they can get to the server and do their work? |
| 21:09.36 | maquis | what happens if a student breaks one? |
| 21:09.45 | maquis | what if a student gets theirs stolen? |
| 21:09.46 | levi | hans: They let you do the whole grammar without breaking into regexes. There's no separate lexing step. |
| 21:09.59 | sjansen | ~lart the many abuses of the verb to get |
| 21:10.13 | hans | well of course that's always possible, but how do you not get lost in the grammarizing of a regex? there's a reason regexes are nice |
| 21:10.14 | levi | maquis: Some schools already buy laptops for all the kids. |
| 21:10.21 | maquis | mheath: my high school implemented a laptop program during my senior year... my first 3 years, i heard all the discussions about it |
| 21:10.41 | mheath | maquis: the students could purchase a $30 WAP module that would plug into their existing internet connection, and enable it to work at home. Or, I'm sure, the schools could work out a deal with local ISPs to provide full service for minimal costs (for education purposes) |
| 21:10.42 | hans | CF is a superset of regular after all |
| 21:10.43 | levi | hans: Well, PEGs have a lot of regex-like features. |
| 21:10.50 | tensai | maquis: well of course your school would. they've got money flying out the wazoo |
| 21:10.53 | maquis | levi: yeah... or you can be like my high school and make all the students by a 2000$ laptop, and 700$ worth of books |
| 21:10.56 | mheath | maquis: the broken/lost/stolen policy would be the same as existing textbook and computer use policies |
| 21:11.06 | mheath | maquis: you lose it/break it/ruin it, you buy it. |
| 21:11.07 | maquis | tensai: theydidn't pay for any of it except for the low income families |
| 21:11.33 | tensai | maquis: not enough left over after all the porches for the administrators I guess |
| 21:11.35 | mheath | maquis: thats what my point is...you'd accomplish the same cool hightech things with a $200 purchase for all students |
| 21:11.38 | maquis | tensai: students paid for *everything* at that school... books, etc... school didn't pay for much |
| 21:11.48 | mheath | You could also consolidate your textbook costs, because all the textbooks could be computerized |
| 21:11.54 | sjansen | heh |
| 21:11.57 | hans | you said PEG > CFG, is that right? |
| 21:11.59 | maquis | mheath: knowing teachers, the teachers would still have a textbook |
| 21:12.00 | levi | I question the need for ubiquitous computing at primary schools, though. |
| 21:12.06 | hans | what class of languages do they describe? |
| 21:12.10 | sjansen | mheath: One problem with electronic texbooks--publishers. |
| 21:12.28 | levi | hans: I think monotonic context-sensitive langauges. |
| 21:12.39 | maquis | most teachers at my school had textbooks anyways... it was yet another thing for the students to carry around |
| 21:12.45 | mheath | maquis: Theres a lot more that plays into my idea than what I've been able to express purely in words, and in such a short time |
| 21:12.50 | sjansen | For the most part, computers in schools have resulted in lower quality instruction. |
| 21:12.53 | tensai | sjansen: I imagine O'Reilly would work something out with you, but otherwise I think you're right |
| 21:13.03 | mheath | maquis: I've tried to consolidate pages of notes and several drawings/diagrams into a short conversation |
| 21:13.12 | mheath | I need to type up some stuff and computerize some of these drawings |
| 21:13.13 | maquis | mheath: it's also an encouragement for teachers to do more things on powerpoint |
| 21:13.16 | mheath | You'll get a better idea then |
| 21:13.20 | maquis | which is a Bad Thing (tm) |
| 21:13.42 | hans | sjansen: if we could keep the laptops away from the teachers/professors... |
| 21:13.44 | maquis | mheath: cool... i'd like to see it... |
| 21:13.47 | tensai | mheath: fwiw I think your idea has merit, but it's no panacea |
| 21:13.52 | hans | then all we'd worry about is students not paying attention |
| 21:14.05 | maquis | i just have seen a ton of problems with the laptop program at my high school |
| 21:14.41 | tensai | maquis: so what do they do will all of billg's money then? |
| 21:15.12 | hans | tensai: take billg out to dinner |
| 21:15.26 | levi | hans: http://www.brynosaurus.com/pub/lang/peg-slides.pdf |
| 21:15.43 | sjansen | Based on my experience, computers should only be used when teaching how to use a computer. And even then, only in moderation. |
| 21:16.20 | maquis | tensai: they spent a lot of it on the buildings |
| 21:16.24 | maquis | and things like that |
| 21:17.34 | levi | sjansen: I think in advanced subjects they can be used in more ways, but certainly up to high school there's little to no need for computers outside of classes on programming or 'computer literacy'. |
| 21:18.28 | hans | i mostly agree with sjansen, but I've seen enough of those physics videos to know that moving greek symbols can go a long way to help understanding |
| 21:19.29 | levi | Hmm. Yeah, intelligent use of computers could be useful in physics. |
| 21:19.34 | sjansen | I have no quibble with limited use of audio visuals. |
| 21:20.13 | tensai | my hs physics teacher had a great set of videos. saw some on pbs a while back and I still enjoyed them. |
| 21:20.24 | sjansen | The thing I hate is teachers who have slave like devotion to a prepared presentation without putting in equal time to what a good audio visual presentation has recieved. |
| 21:20.46 | *** join/#utah carruth (i=carruth@sverige.freeshell.ORG) |
| 21:20.50 | hans | well a/v is cool, but computers have potential in the physics/math area to do a/v in a more controlled (interactive) way |
| 21:21.10 | sjansen | potential |
| 21:21.11 | hans | which I think is the primary reason physics teachers blab on incoherently when they've got those nifty videos they _could_ show |
| 21:21.24 | hans | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:21.26 | maquis | sjansen: or who just rely on powerpoint |
| 21:22.30 | levi | computers in math are dangerous, though. |
| 21:22.50 | hans | that's true. keep 'em away from computers until numbers are irrelevant |
| 21:23.10 | levi | Computers can do symbolic math now, too. |
| 21:23.20 | levi | They can even show their work. ;) |
| 21:23.42 | levi | Which can be useful for learning, or it can be a crutch. |
| 21:24.08 | hans | ~crutch sjansen |
| 21:24.33 | *** join/#utah Tene (n=tene@poipu/supporter/slacker/tene) |
| 21:25.05 | hans | i can hear this guy's ipod headphones across the room |
| 21:25.25 | hans | not just barely either. I can make out the guitars and drums |
| 21:25.28 | hans | poor sap |
| 21:27.28 | levi | Yow. |
| 21:28.15 | *** join/#utah bonez39 (n=aint@c-67-166-77-14.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 21:35.27 | hans | must already be half-deaf |
| 21:38.08 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@216-190-206-130.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 21:41.53 | osynic | I don't suppose anyone has any information on syncing a blackberry in linux? |
| 21:42.24 | tensai | tie a really big rock to it, then *plop*, into the lake. |
| 21:42.49 | osynic | hrmm... I tried that, doesn't work. :P |
| 21:43.41 | maquis | ~wake goozbach |
| 21:43.44 | ibot | goozbach: GOOD MORNING!!! |
| 21:43.44 | tensai | oh, syncing. not sinking. yeah, I've got no clue. |
| 21:43.47 | Peregrine | Did goozbach have too much pie? |
| 21:44.53 | goozbach | I spent 5 minutes looking at this header for an email wondering how it sneaked past my sieve rules and got dumpped into the inbox. Until I realized that my email client wasn't looking at my inbox but the correct sub-folder and the email was in the correct place |
| 21:47.45 | Peregrine | lol @ goozbach |
| 21:48.38 | sjansen | ~mock Peregrine |
| 21:48.39 | ibot | ACTION pulls Peregrine's pants down and shows the world Peregrine's pink spotted underwear |
| 21:50.09 | maquis | laughing gas? |
| 21:50.15 | JoshH | everyone is laughing at eachother |
| 21:50.57 | JoshH | ~mock maquis |
| 21:50.58 | ibot | ACTION pulls maquis's pants down and shows the world maquis's pink spotted underwear |
| 21:54.39 | *** join/#utah hans (n=fugalh@hfugal.NMSU.Edu) |
| 21:58.10 | sjansen | ~maroon goozbach |
| 22:03.10 | *** join/#utah starma1 (n=inshift@dsl001-136-136.lax1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 22:11.40 | *** part/#utah starma1 (n=inshift@dsl001-136-136.lax1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 22:16.08 | *** part/#utah bonez39 (n=aint@c-67-166-77-14.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 22:25.56 | Tene | http://allalone.org/pics/teneshot.png |
| 22:32.51 | maquis | ~bigyawn maquis |
| 22:33.04 | Tene | ~explode |
| 22:33.06 | ibot | BOOOM |
| 22:33.24 | JoshH | ~biggeryawn JoshH |
| 22:33.27 | *** join/#utah hans (n=fugalh@dhcp29.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 22:33.28 | JoshH | i slept for 2 hours last night |
| 22:33.30 | JoshH | thanks to WoW |
| 22:33.52 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (n=zaphod@m010f36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 22:37.02 | Tene | nooo |
| 22:37.05 | Tene | I need it. |
| 22:37.07 | Tene | or else I die. |
| 22:37.26 | hans | -dice |
| 22:37.27 | brac | incorrect usage: dice <string> (where <string> is something like: d6 or 2d6 or 2d6+4 or 2d6+1d20 or 2d6+1d5+4d7-3d4-6) => Rolls that set of virtual dice |
| 22:37.41 | hans | -dice tene |
| 22:37.41 | brac | incorrect usage: dice <string> (where <string> is something like: d6 or 2d6 or 2d6+4 or 2d6+1d20 or 2d6+1d5+4d7-3d4-6) => Rolls that set of virtual dice |
| 22:38.12 | xbmodder | ? |
| 22:38.42 | maquis | -dice d20 |
| 22:38.42 | brac | 5 | [d20=5] |
| 22:38.47 | maquis | -dice d20 |
| 22:38.47 | brac | 10 | [d20=10] |
| 22:38.50 | maquis | -dice d20 |
| 22:38.50 | brac | 9 | [d20=9] |
| 22:38.55 | maquis | -dice 2d20 |
| 22:38.55 | brac | 14 | [2d20=14] |
| 22:39.02 | maquis | -dice 2d20 |
| 22:39.02 | brac | 19 | [2d20=19] |
| 22:39.04 | maquis | -dice 2d20 |
| 22:39.05 | brac | 6 | [2d20=6] |
| 22:39.08 | maquis | -dice 2d20 |
| 22:39.08 | brac | 7 | [2d20=7] |
| 22:39.11 | maquis | -dice 2d20 |
| 22:39.11 | brac | 19 | [2d20=19] |
| 22:39.14 | maquis | -dice 2d20 |
| 22:39.14 | brac | 28 | [2d20=28] |
| 22:39.16 | maquis | -dice 2d20 |
| 22:39.17 | brac | 16 | [2d20=16] |
| 22:39.19 | maquis | -dice 2d20 |
| 22:39.19 | brac | 31 | [2d20=31] |
| 22:39.20 | hans | -dice d20 d20 |
| 22:39.20 | brac | incorrect usage: dice <string> (where <string> is something like: d6 or 2d6 or 2d6+4 or 2d6+1d20 or 2d6+1d5+4d7-3d4-6) => Rolls that set of virtual dice |
| 22:39.34 | xbmodder | ~say -say ~say -say |
| 22:39.36 | ibot | -say ~say -say |
| 22:39.36 | hans | -dice d6+4 |
| 22:39.36 | brac | 8 | [d6=4] [+4=4] |
| 22:39.37 | brac | insufficient "say" auth (have 10, need 70) |
| 22:39.47 | xbmodder | shutup brac |
| 22:39.58 | maquis | -dice 2d6+1d5+4d7-3d4-6 |
| 22:39.58 | brac | 19 | [2d6=12] [+1d5=4] [+4d7=20] [-3d4=-11] [-6=-6] |
| 22:40.21 | maquis | :) |
| 22:40.40 | maquis | methinks more games should run with that type of dice... |
| 22:40.44 | maquis | -dice 2d6+1d5+4d7-3d4-6 |
| 22:40.44 | brac | 3 | [2d6=10] [+1d5=1] [+4d7=7] [-3d4=-9] [-6=-6] |
| 22:40.51 | maquis | -dice 2d6+1d5+4d7-3d4-6 |
| 22:40.51 | brac | 9 | [2d6=10] [+1d5=4] [+4d7=10] [-3d4=-9] [-6=-6] |
| 22:40.56 | maquis | -dice 2d6+1d5+4d7-3d4-6 |
| 22:40.57 | brac | 8 | [2d6=2] [+1d5=2] [+4d7=18] [-3d4=-8] [-6=-6] |
| 22:41.01 | maquis | -dice 2d6+1d5+4d7-3d4-6 |
| 22:41.01 | brac | 18 | [2d6=6] [+1d5=3] [+4d7=25] [-3d4=-10] [-6=-6] |
| 22:41.20 | RyanE | that -6 die is *really* useful. |
| 22:41.38 | maquis | RyanE: yup |
| 22:41.50 | maquis | -dice 2d6+1d5+4d7-3d4-6d50 |
| 22:41.51 | brac | -140 | [2d6=9] [+1d5=1] [+4d7=19] [-3d4=-3] [-6d50=-166] |
| 22:42.01 | maquis | :-D |
| 22:42.14 | maquis | -dice 2d6+1d5+4d7-3d4-6d50 |
| 22:42.15 | brac | -118 | [2d6=6] [+1d5=1] [+4d7=25] [-3d4=-10] [-6d50=-140] |
| 22:42.55 | maquis | "pull out betty, pull out! you've hit an artery!" |
| 22:43.09 | Tene | hehe |
| 22:44.04 | Tene | I remember a tabasco sauce commercial where someone was eating pizza with tabasco sauce on it and watched a mosquito suck blood from him and then fly off and explode |
| 22:44.15 | maquis | haha |
| 22:57.32 | goozbach | Tene: that was a superbowl commercial |
| 22:58.28 | Tene | 'kay |
| 23:12.10 | sjansen | well look at that, with two monitors Tene has managed to get slightly more pixels than my laptop screen |
| 23:12.43 | Tene | what resolution? |
| 23:13.17 | sjansen | 1920x1200 |
| 23:15.53 | Tene | Yeah, well... err... my system isn't portable and uses big bulky CRTs. |
| 23:18.20 | *** join/#utah hans (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 23:20.55 | hans | -lart something |
| 23:38.01 | *** join/#utah Hhhhh (n=cristoba@c-67-169-244-47.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 23:38.08 | Hhhhh | hello |
| 23:38.15 | Hhhhh | is anybody using ubuntu here? |
| 23:39.02 | Tene | have before |
| 23:39.08 | mheath | Hhhhh: I am in the middle of installing it. |
| 23:41.23 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (n=zaphod@c-24-2-80-89.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 23:54.03 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@67-41-182-14.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 23:58.39 | *** join/#utah SpecialK (n=sjk36@instruments.cs.byu.edu) |
| 23:59.20 | SpecialK | nick SpecialZ |
| 23:59.27 | Hhhhh | how would you compare fc4 and ubuntu breezy? (I don't intend to start a distro war, please I want an objective opinion) |
| 23:59.31 | SpecialZ | type /msg NickServ IDENTIFY foggy8 |
| 23:59.37 | Hhhhh | pros/cons/ in both |
| 23:59.38 | Tene | Hhhhh: I prefer fc4 |
