| 00:03.57 | goozbach | Tene: ping |
| 00:05.29 | Tene | goozbach: pong |
| 00:13.15 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wade@65.73.113.199) |
| 00:26.31 | mheath | xbmodder: You're funny :) |
| 00:28.16 | mheath | outrd....thats really cute :P |
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| 00:42.23 | *** part/#utah linuxalien (n=zaphod@c-24-2-80-89.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 00:44.17 | maquis | xbmodder_lappy: what fs type is it? |
| 00:45.16 | goozbach | xbmodder_lappy: zcat initrd > outitrd ; mount -o loop.... |
| 00:45.29 | goozbach | one less step |
| 00:45.32 | goozbach | :) |
| 00:45.35 | maquis | goozbach: do you know? |
| 00:46.20 | goozbach | why do I have to? |
| 00:46.23 | goozbach | mount should. |
| 00:46.39 | maquis | [osiris /boot] sudo cat initrd-2.6.13-1.1526_FC4.img| gunzip > foo | mount -o loop -t auto foo /mnt/floppy |
| 00:46.42 | maquis | mount: you must specify the filesystem type |
| 00:47.21 | maquis | (same error w/o the -t auto) |
| 00:47.28 | *** join/#utah tensai (n=tensai@kite.zmonkey.org) |
| 00:47.52 | goozbach | don't pipe it to mount |
| 00:48.04 | goozbach | and I don't think that works |
| 00:48.09 | goozbach | tis a cpio archive |
| 00:48.21 | maquis | huh? |
| 00:48.42 | maquis | still wants the fs type |
| 00:48.49 | goozbach | cat initrd-2.6.13-1.1526_FC4.img| gunzip > foo ; mount -o loop -t auto foo /mnt/floppy |
| 00:48.57 | goozbach | yeah, I don't think it works |
| 00:50.52 | mheath | Hmmm |
| 00:51.13 | mheath | Can anyone recommend a good store that has computer related books? |
| 00:51.25 | mheath | My teacher has an excellent O'Rielly book..."Java Examples" or something |
| 00:51.35 | goozbach | B&N |
| 00:51.37 | mheath | Just full of useful examples and explanations |
| 00:51.38 | goozbach | or Frys |
| 00:51.47 | mheath | goozbach: Have neither near here.. |
| 00:52.01 | maquis | mheath: amazon/ |
| 00:52.02 | maquis | ? |
| 00:52.24 | mheath | maquis: no credit card. |
| 00:52.41 | maquis | debit? |
| 00:52.54 | maquis | parents? |
| 00:53.13 | maquis | before i had a debit card, i would give my parents the money so they could order things for me |
| 00:53.13 | mheath | No, and not readily accessible |
| 00:53.47 | maquis | any friends with debit? |
| 00:55.50 | maquis | mheath: what bookstores are around? |
| 00:55.58 | JoshH | borders/b&n both have a lot |
| 00:56.01 | JoshH | especially borders |
| 00:56.30 | mheath | maquis: honestly, the only one I can think of thats really near here is Media Play |
| 00:56.38 | mheath | I think I'll go at least take a look there |
| 00:56.44 | maquis | wow... |
| 00:56.47 | maquis | no other bookstores??? |
| 00:56.50 | JoshH | heh, ogden has nothing |
| 00:56.55 | maquis | that's crazy! |
| 00:57.09 | JoshH | there should be a big bookstore somewhere up there though... |
| 00:57.31 | JoshH | i love amazon |
| 00:57.38 | JoshH | i always get the books in 3 days |
| 00:57.42 | JoshH | no tax |
| 00:58.30 | mheath | Does BestBuy have any comptuter-related books? (Intelligent ones) |
| 00:58.46 | JoshH | i didnt know they had books at all there |
| 00:58.52 | JoshH | ive always just looked at the electronics there |
| 00:59.33 | mheath | I finally got my first USB drive today |
| 00:59.40 | mheath | 128 MB for $16 dollars |
| 00:59.59 | mheath | I'm happy. The guy at the store was telling me how, when he first bought one that size, it cost $50 on sale :) |
| 01:00.29 | JoshH | thats not a bad deal at all |
| 01:00.38 | mheath | I hate that computer store, though |
| 01:00.43 | JoshH | what store |
| 01:00.46 | mheath | Although they do ocassionally have good deals |
| 01:00.49 | mheath | JoshH: PCClub |
| 01:01.07 | mheath | JoshH: the sales rep was telling me that parallel and serial were the same thing |
| 01:01.13 | JoshH | ive never had a bad experience with pcclub, but they are certainly no newegg/zipzoomfly |
| 01:01.24 | JoshH | ive only been to the one down by fashion place mall though |
| 01:01.37 | mheath | and that the cable I was looking for (a printer cable for my laserjet) was "just another size of serial cable" |
| 01:01.45 | mheath | I wanted to pull out a dictionary |
| 01:02.01 | JoshH | i feel sorry for non-tech savvy people who go to stores like that |
| 01:02.08 | JoshH | and dont know that the salesperson is an idiot |
| 01:02.31 | mheath | I also said "I'm going to use an old laptop as a terminal. Do you have any serial cables?" |
| 01:02.43 | mheath | He tried to sell me a VGA monitor cable |
| 01:03.31 | mheath | We went through him showing me like 10 different cables before we established that the store didn't carry what I needed |
| 01:03.52 | mheath | I'm going to go look at some books at Media Play |
| 01:03.55 | mheath | be back in a little bit |
| 01:04.08 | JoshH | dont bother |
| 01:04.30 | JoshH | the only books at media play are ones like "html for dummies" and "learn sql in 24 hours" |
| 01:06.08 | JoshH | the people ive dealt with at pcclub in murray aren't like that at all, it sounds like you just had an exceptionally bad salesperson |
| 01:06.39 | JoshH | universal computer on 3300 south and about 1300 east in SLC is by far my favorite store |
| 01:18.15 | *** join/#utah ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 01:18.15 | *** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, uphpu.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com. See planetutah.adelantellc.com for aggregate feeds |
| 01:18.15 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 01:20.25 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@67-41-182-14.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 01:33.35 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@67-41-182-14.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 01:38.12 | hans | ~lart emcnabb |
| 01:49.22 | mheath | JoshH: Saddly, you were vary correct |
| 01:49.25 | mheath | A wall of yellow |
| 01:49.29 | mheath | *very |
| 01:49.34 | JoshH | lol |
| 01:49.53 | JoshH | you should just get a checking account + debit card |
| 01:50.03 | JoshH | and enjoy the wonders of amazon |
| 01:51.24 | mheath | Weber State University visited our school |
| 01:51.40 | mheath | had us fill out these cards of our interests, saying "We'll send you a packet of persoanlized information!" |
| 01:51.51 | mheath | The packet was generic, but contained a link to a "personalized website" |
| 01:52.13 | JoshH | great, just what you need |
| 01:52.17 | JoshH | a personalized website |
| 01:52.33 | mheath | The personalized website had only 3 personalized links, including an assumption that me checking "Interested in ROTC" meant I was interested in *ARMY* ROTC |
| 01:52.53 | mheath | (Despite the fact that Weber has Air Force, Army, and Navy ROTC) |
| 01:53.26 | mheath | I have to laugh at this |
| 01:53.31 | mheath | Weber's application is 4 pages |
| 01:53.35 | mheath | UoU's is 11 pages |
| 01:53.48 | mheath | (Including one page that seemed intent on wasting as much of my printer's red ink as possible) |
| 02:20.33 | goozbach | wow! ~800 patches on a stock RHEL4 kernel |
| 02:24.48 | xbmodder_lappy | wow.... |
| 02:27.12 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@216-190-206-130.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 02:28.28 | xbmodder_lappy | oh crap |
| 02:28.40 | xbmodder_lappy | someone needs to make a route between cogenet and level3!!! |
| 02:42.42 | JoshH | haha heres a book for you mheath |
| 02:42.44 | JoshH | http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~shane/stasj/pics/humor/div/57.html |
| 02:43.05 | xbmodder_lappy | you do know that this is the perfect time for google to take over? |
| 02:43.23 | xbmodder_lappy | This is take over the world weather |
| 02:43.25 | xbmodder_lappy | ~slashdot |
| 02:46.17 | ScytheBlade1 | You know, that's disturbing |
| 02:46.21 | ScytheBlade1 | that ibot has that command |
| 02:47.37 | maquis | ~wiki slashdot |
| 02:47.43 | xbmodder_lappy | hehe. |
| 02:47.48 | maquis | hmmm |
| 02:47.52 | maquis | that appears to be broken |
| 02:48.03 | maquis | ~wiki gdb |
| 02:48.22 | maquis | yup |
| 02:48.35 | maquis | ScytheBlade1: ibot can do a *ton* of things that you may or may not want to know about :) |
| 02:48.41 | mheath | Bootstrap finally finished a while ago |
| 02:48.44 | maquis | slashdot is onlye one of them |
| 02:48.46 | mheath | emerging system now |
| 02:48.51 | maquis | ~quote scox |
| 02:49.02 | mheath | Someone really needs to make a decent distro that uses GarPorts |
| 02:49.11 | maquis | garports? |
| 02:49.15 | maquis | as opposed to carports? |
| 02:49.19 | ScytheBlade1 | That's why I'm scared |
| 02:49.25 | ScytheBlade1 | (@ marquis) |
| 02:49.28 | mheath | maquis: like BSD Ports, but better, and uses GNU Make rather than PMake |
| 02:49.43 | maquis | ~tree ScytheBlade1 |
| 02:49.44 | ibot | ACTION sizes up a tree and chops it down in just the right place to fall on ScytheBlade1. |
| 02:49.54 | maquis | mheath: cool |
| 02:50.01 | ScytheBlade1 | Things like senseless bashing are just fine |
| 02:50.06 | ScytheBlade1 | But parsing /. to return it to IRC... |
| 02:50.13 | maquis | "_ |
| 02:50.15 | maquis | er |
| 02:50.15 | ScytheBlade1 | That's like three levels of geek rolled into one |
| 02:50.16 | maquis | :) |
| 02:50.22 | ScytheBlade1 | Four possibly |
| 02:50.50 | maquis | ~segfault ScytheBlade1 |
| 02:50.52 | ibot | ACTION executes ScytheBlade1 and -9teLdR/;+#Segmentation fault. |
| 02:50.56 | maquis | mheath: because people are stupid |
| 02:51.28 | mheath | Watch while we fill time with worthless material, all in an extremely obvious and overdone attempt to leave the viewer in suspense |
| 02:51.35 | ScytheBlade1 | See, now that's just fine. I just can't help but....I mean wow..... |
| 02:51.54 | ScytheBlade1 | Checking slashdot is one thing, being an IRC junkie another, and running an IRC bot another |
| 02:51.58 | ScytheBlade1 | But when you combine the three... |
| 02:52.51 | ScytheBlade1 | The thing that scares me the most is the knowledge that I'll never open my browser again ;) |
| 02:53.24 | *** join/#utah amcnabb (n=amcnabb@128.187.151.143) |
| 02:58.54 | mheath | *sigh* the plot is getting more obvious |
| 02:59.33 | mheath | The numbers typed into the computer are the same numbers that one of the lost people's roomates in a mental institution kept repeating |
| 03:00.01 | mheath | The group that opened that underground facility supposedly conducts psychological experimentation |
| 03:00.16 | *** join/#utah Maquis_ (n=erins@c-67-161-219-84.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 03:00.22 | Maquis_ | ~ping tensai |
| 03:00.23 | ibot | pong tensai |
| 03:00.33 | mheath | That one guy is right...its all a psychological experiment that's supposed to mess with the people |
| 03:01.56 | fishyfire | ~lart maquis |
| 03:02.05 | Maquis_ | ~segfault fishyfire |
| 03:02.07 | ibot | ACTION executes fishyfire and -9teLdR/;+#Segmentation fault. |
| 03:02.43 | fishyfire | ~segfault math 334 |
| 03:02.44 | ibot | ACTION executes math 334 and -9teLdR/;+#Segmentation fault. |
| 03:02.54 | Maquis_ | fishyfire: true |
| 03:04.13 | fishyfire | you've taken it already i assume... |
| 03:04.25 | Maquis_ | 334? i don't think so.. |
| 03:04.27 | Maquis_ | what is it? |
| 03:04.34 | fishyfire | ordinary differential equations |
| 03:04.37 | fishyfire | do you have to take it? |
| 03:04.39 | Maquis_ | nope... don't have to |
| 03:04.41 | fishyfire | i don't remember... |
| 03:04.44 | fishyfire | lucky |
| 03:05.04 | Maquis_ | i take it you're CE/EE? |
| 03:05.16 | fishyfire | oh well, it's all good and nice to know i suppose |
| 03:05.21 | fishyfire | CE yeah |
| 03:06.03 | fishyfire | how are the cs labs treating you this semester? |
| 03:06.36 | Maquis_ | ok, i guess.. |
| 03:06.43 | Maquis_ | nothing like operating-systems... |
| 03:06.56 | fishyfire | lol |
| 03:07.25 | fishyfire | yeah i can imagine |
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| 03:10.57 | *** part/#utah linuxalien (n=zaphod@c-24-2-80-89.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 03:13.25 | Maquis_ | :) |
| 03:13.30 | Maquis_ | fishyfire: what classes are you taking? |
| 03:16.43 | xbmodder_lappy | ghost it! |
| 03:16.44 | Maquis_ | that's a pretty long timeout, though |
| 03:16.53 | Maquis_ | xbmodder_lappy: nah... i wanna see myself quit |
| 03:16.58 | xbmodder_lappy | lol |
| 03:17.24 | Maquis_ | yay! |
| 03:25.49 | fishyfire | i have ecen 320, ecen 370 |
| 03:25.53 | fishyfire | math 334 |
| 03:25.57 | fishyfire | physics 281 |
| 03:26.01 | Maquis_ | ick |
| 03:26.09 | fishyfire | us/canada fam history and fly fishing |
| 03:26.19 | Maquis_ | those last two sound like they could be interesting |
| 03:26.31 | fishyfire | i really like the fly fishing class |
| 03:26.33 | Maquis_ | does fly fishing fill any GEs? |
| 03:26.37 | fishyfire | and the fam hist is pretty good too |
| 03:26.43 | fishyfire | i don't think so |
| 03:26.50 | Maquis_ | sadness |
| 03:27.00 | fishyfire | you do get 2 credits for going fishing though |
| 03:27.02 | fishyfire | which is nice! |
| 03:27.08 | Maquis_ | well... i don't need credits |
| 03:27.10 | Maquis_ | i need GEs |
| 03:27.17 | fishyfire | yeah... me too |
| 03:27.30 | fishyfire | but i also needed to be a little sane in at least a class or two |
| 03:27.32 | Maquis_ | i need to find 2 more PE GEs (thinking world dance sounds fun) |
| 03:27.40 | Maquis_ | and i need an arts&letters |
| 03:27.50 | Maquis_ | is there a list anywhere of classes that fill arts & letters? |
| 03:28.08 | fishyfire | on the byu website somewhere... |
| 03:29.01 | fishyfire | http://saas.byu.edu/classschedule/archive/winter2004/ge_charts.html |
| 03:29.02 | mheath | This is going to take a while |
| 03:29.08 | mheath | Emerging 17 / 195 |
| 03:29.14 | mheath | and its been at it for a couple of hours =\ |
| 03:30.02 | Maquis_ | fishyfire: i've seen that one, but i know there are other classes (at least on certain semesters) that fill the requirement as well... |
| 03:30.23 | fishyfire | i heard the floral design one does... but it isn't on the list |
| 03:30.28 | *** join/#utah synic (n=synic@c-67-177-16-249.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 03:30.33 | fishyfire | might be something to check if you are interested in it |
| 03:30.35 | fishyfire | LOL |
| 03:30.41 | Maquis_ | :) |
| 03:30.46 | fishyfire | yeah... nothing on that list really seemed to exciting to me either |
| 03:30.59 | Maquis_ | i think i read someplace that the honors program might not be offering "jerusalem the eternal city" anymore |
| 03:31.04 | Maquis_ | that one did sound moderately interesting |
| 03:31.13 | Maquis_ | but i had trouble getting in because it kept filling up |
| 03:31.20 | fishyfire | hmm |
| 03:31.27 | xbmodder | fun |
| 03:31.37 | mheath | Meh, only at a Mormon school.... :) |
| 03:31.47 | fishyfire | interior design doesn't sound too bad, although once in the class i might change my mind |
| 03:31.59 | fishyfire | but sounds like one of the best choices to me |
| 03:32.02 | Maquis_ | mheath: i dunno... there's got to be some hebrew schools that offer a class like that :) |
| 03:32.11 | Maquis_ | fishyfire: that's great :) |
| 03:32.32 | mheath | xbmodder: To answer your earlier question, I need a SCSI CD-ROM for my Ultra Enterprise 1 server |
| 03:32.38 | Maquis_ | where is that one? |
| 03:32.47 | mheath | That or an SBUS IDE Controller, but good luck finding one of those...and wasting your money on one of those |
| 03:32.51 | Maquis_ | oh... nm... i found it |
| 03:33.08 | fishyfire | it sounds kind of cool to me at least |
| 03:33.23 | Maquis_ | fishyfire: actually, i think i know somebody who took it |
| 03:33.32 | Maquis_ | she had to memorize a million different types of chairs |
| 03:33.37 | fishyfire | hmmm |
| 03:33.48 | fishyfire | but did she like the class? |
| 03:33.52 | fishyfire | or was it too much |
| 03:33.59 | fishyfire | i don't mind some memorization.... |
| 03:34.07 | Maquis_ | i don't know... |
| 03:34.24 | Maquis_ | it sounds like it could be fun, at least |
| 03:34.26 | Maquis_ | and not too hard |
| 03:34.47 | fishyfire | yeah |
| 03:35.02 | Maquis_ | why isn't there a computer basics requirement for GEs? |
| 03:35.21 | fishyfire | i don't know... but there should be one |
| 03:35.22 | Maquis_ | it might actually make sense to have something that you can test out of or something... |
| 03:35.27 | Maquis_ | that you can fill in a lot of different ways |
| 03:35.44 | Maquis_ | computers are so important these days, and far too many people don't know how to do anything |
| 03:35.55 | Maquis_ | (and i'm tired of helping people who don't know how to do anything) |
| 03:35.57 | fishyfire | if we get the priviledge of taking some of these "fun" classes others should have an equal opportunity |
| 03:36.10 | Maquis_ | like the humanities majors :) |
| 03:36.16 | fishyfire | yeah |
| 03:36.43 | Maquis_ | technically, it's possible to never have to take a math class too... you can fill your "languages of learning" credits other ways, and never take math in college |
| 03:36.56 | Maquis_ | you can't get through class without ever taking history, though... |
| 03:36.59 | Maquis_ | er |
| 03:37.02 | Maquis_ | get through college |
| 03:39.46 | Maquis_ | hmmm |
| 03:40.07 | amcnabb | I haven't taken history (though I enjoy it). |
| 03:40.21 | amcnabb | And anyway, history is part of a liberal arts education, while computers are a skill. |
| 03:40.44 | Maquis_ | i think that at this point in history, computers are a skill that everyone needs some level at... |
| 03:40.52 | mheath | *Sigh* My gentoo install failed..... |
| 03:40.54 | Maquis_ | by history, i'm including the civ classes and such |
| 03:41.09 | amcnabb | oh, yeah. I forgot. :) |
| 03:41.16 | mheath | Apparently it installed a version of Autoconf that the Automake it tried to install wasn't compatible with. |
| 03:41.24 | Maquis_ | mheath: ouch! |
| 03:44.03 | Maquis_ | mheath: that sounds familiar... |
| 03:44.51 | mheath | I have plans to eventually start a company that makes, among other things, such a Linux distribution. But it will be many years before I have the time or money to do such a thing, and by then such an idea as Linux distro will be probably be obsolete. |
| 03:47.06 | amcnabb | Maquis_, I'm just glad nobody's trying to force me to take a computer competency class. |
| 03:48.12 | Maquis_ | amcnabb: well, like i mentioned, i think it should be something you can either test out of, or that you could take a different class in place (ie, any cs class would fill the requirement)... but most people would end up taking a basic computer proficiency course |
| 03:48.59 | Maquis_ | i dunno... it's just an idea of something that would be useful for the vast majority of people... |
| 03:50.12 | amcnabb | The problem with proficiency courses is that they test nitpicky application-specific stuff. I'd fail the test for sure. |
| 03:50.28 | Maquis_ | i don't think it would *need* to be that way though |
| 03:50.52 | Maquis_ | i dunno |
| 03:50.59 | amcnabb | Anyway, I'd better get back to work. |
| 03:57.33 | mheath | Is anyone here familiar with Java? |
| 04:01.05 | fishyfire | if you have a very very basic question then maybe... it's been a while and it wasn't anything too intense |
| 04:01.44 | fishyfire | what do you need? |
| 04:03.04 | Maquis_ | mheath: what's the question? |
| 04:03.22 | fishyfire | maquis would be able to answer much better than me |
| 04:03.30 | Maquis_ | doubt it, but i'll try :) |
| 04:03.52 | fishyfire | i have only taken up to 235 so far... |
| 04:11.47 | fishyfire | there was a deer in our parking lot |
| 04:12.00 | Maquis_ | that's cool! |
| 04:12.07 | Maquis_ | ok |
| 04:12.10 | Maquis_ | i'm kinda curious |
| 04:12.23 | fishyfire | what? |
| 04:12.24 | Maquis_ | can anyone think of an activity that would involve a spray-can noise and *lots* of screaming? |
| 04:12.36 | Maquis_ | i'm slightly afraid to go look in my living room... |
| 04:12.48 | fishyfire | in your living room?! |
| 04:12.54 | fishyfire | i was thinking maybe the parking lot |
| 04:12.54 | Maquis_ | yes |
| 04:12.57 | Maquis_ | no |
| 04:13.00 | Maquis_ | it's my roommates |
| 04:13.00 | fishyfire | good luck with that! |
| 04:13.02 | Maquis_ | in my living room |
| 04:13.07 | Maquis_ | and i'm kinda scared |
| 04:13.15 | fishyfire | now i'm curious....let me know when you find out... |
| 04:13.43 | fishyfire | that silly string stuff? not sure if that is like spray paint sound or not |
| 04:14.18 | fishyfire | an early halloween costume with temporary hair die? |
| 04:14.46 | Maquis_ | worse |
| 04:14.56 | Maquis_ | they've got some sort of thing called a "hair rake" |
| 04:15.01 | Maquis_ | pretty much, it looks like a rake |
| 04:15.05 | Maquis_ | but it's electric |
| 04:15.29 | Maquis_ | and it sends electric currents out (visible electric currents) any time it gets close enough to anything |
| 04:15.34 | Maquis_ | andthey're brushing their hair with it |
| 04:15.37 | Maquis_ | (thus the screaming) |
| 04:15.49 | Maquis_ | they've been doing this for at least 10 minutes |
| 04:16.11 | fishyfire | lol |
| 04:16.16 | fishyfire | lucky you! |
| 04:16.51 | *** join/#utah levi (n=levi@levi.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 04:17.09 | Maquis_ | fishyfire: ummm... yeah |
| 04:17.12 | fishyfire | so did you know any of the roommates before you moved in? |
| 04:17.24 | Maquis_ | i'm still not certain *why* they are sending electric currents through their head... |
| 04:17.27 | Maquis_ | but apparently it's fun |
| 04:18.11 | fishyfire | lol.... i think i am with you on that one.... doesn't sound like something that is that wonderful to do |
| 04:18.23 | Maquis_ | no... |
| 04:19.03 | levi | Maquis_: Your roommates are shocking themselves? |
| 04:19.18 | Maquis_ | levi: in the head |
| 04:19.23 | fishyfire | and they think it's fun! |
| 04:19.23 | Maquis_ | with something they call a hair rake |
| 04:19.28 | Maquis_ | and they've been doing it for like 10 minutes |
| 04:19.37 | Maquis_ | complete with random zapping noises (the shock is visible) |
| 04:19.43 | Maquis_ | and lots of screaming |
| 04:19.49 | levi | Maquis_: What's it supposed to do? |
| 04:19.53 | fishyfire | i'm sorry..... |
| 04:20.03 | Maquis_ | levi: i haven't the slightest idea |
| 04:20.16 | Maquis_ | they say it feels weird |
| 04:22.56 | levi | I imagine it does. |
| 04:24.06 | fishyfire | at least there isn't spray paint all over your living room |
| 04:24.21 | Maquis_ | yeah |
| 04:32.42 | *** join/#utah Maquis (n=erins@c-67-161-219-84.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 04:32.48 | Maquis | quick question for people |
| 04:33.06 | Maquis | if i install a new graphics driver, then back up my xorg.conf before making any changes to it.... |
| 04:33.33 | Maquis | then if the driver doesn't work, i should be able to just put the new xorg.conf over the old one, and everything should be fine, right? |
| 04:33.46 | Maquis | (speaking hypothetically) |
| 04:34.24 | Maquis | yes? no? maybe? |
| 04:34.44 | Newsome | should work |
| 04:34.49 | Maquis | that's what i thought... |
| 04:34.59 | Maquis | any suggestions if it doesn't? |
| 04:39.55 | *** join/#utah ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 04:39.55 | *** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, uphpu.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com. See planetutah.adelantellc.com for aggregate feeds |
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| 04:41.25 | Maquis | wow... |
| 04:41.27 | Maquis | that's startling |
| 04:41.31 | Maquis | apparently that line on the kernel was the problem |
| 04:41.48 | Newsome | hmm |
| 04:42.20 | Maquis | unless /me is really confused now |
| 04:42.24 | Maquis | so... |
| 04:42.52 | Maquis | but.. |
| 04:42.54 | Maquis | wait |
| 04:43.03 | Maquis | that still doesn't make sense |
| 04:43.15 | Maquis | because the first time that X did this, i didn't have that line on the kernel, i think |
| 04:43.38 | Maquis | then, i changed the X config stuff |
| 04:43.59 | Maquis | after rebooting, so that it did have that, and it still wouldn't come up |
| 04:44.03 | Maquis | (changed it back) |
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| 04:44.42 | Maquis | ~lart Murphy |
| 04:47.56 | *** join/#utah Maquis (n=erins@c-67-161-219-84.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 04:48.01 | Maquis | well... that wasn't it either |
| 04:53.54 | *** join/#utah amcnabb_ (n=amcnabb@128.187.151.143) |
| 04:54.56 | *** join/#utah Maquis (n=erins@c-67-161-219-84.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 05:05.33 | Maquis | Change true-value? to look for true and falue rather than numbers. |
| 05:05.36 | Maquis | :) |
| 05:05.47 | Maquis | falue... |
| 05:05.48 | Maquis | i like that word |
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| 05:40.54 | *** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, uphpu.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com. See planetutah.adelantellc.com for aggregate feeds |
| 05:44.29 | Supaplex | http://www.livejournal.com/community/customers_suck/12893161.html |
| 05:53.55 | *** join/#utah ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 05:53.55 | *** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, uphpu.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com. See planetutah.adelantellc.com for aggregate feeds |
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| 06:11.49 | xbmodder_lappy | Has anyone here messed with HAM? |
| 06:12.01 | xbmodder_lappy | Or transmitting data over long-distances |
| 06:12.04 | xbmodder_lappy | not using wi-fi |
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| 08:48.25 | Maquis | and that she still hasn't done that stupid paper that's due at 9am tomorrow |
| 08:48.30 | Maquis | too bad.. will do in morning |
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| 11:55.01 | *** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, uphpu.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com. See planetutah.adelantellc.com for aggregate feeds |
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| 13:15.26 | *** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, uphpu.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com. See planetutah.adelantellc.com for aggregate feeds |
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| 13:44.29 | sjansen | Maquis: try hard enough and that should work, eventually it'll be afternoon instead |
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| 14:01.29 | *** join/#utah tensai (n=tensai@kite.zmonkey.org) |
| 14:02.43 | tensai | ping Maquis |
| 14:04.18 | elg | she's in bed with a blanket over her head |
| 14:06.30 | elg | woohoo, today's high is supposed to be 21 |
| 14:07.23 | graphyx | morning. |
| 14:15.28 | Maquis | sjansen: didn't work |
| 14:22.12 | *** join/#utah hans (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 14:24.06 | tensai | Maquis: sorry about joanna. power to the whole house dropped last night. :( |
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| 14:36.23 | *** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, uphpu.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com. See planetutah.adelantellc.com for aggregate feeds |
| 14:36.25 | xbmodder | trying to transmit data accross a distance of ~5 miles |
| 14:37.05 | xbmodder | According to the ham guys they have some kind of radio that can do that |
| 14:54.10 | graphyx | ~invoke hans |
| 14:54.21 | graphyx | hans: I need Ed's number. |
| 14:54.35 | graphyx | I got a job possibility for him right up his alley. |
| 14:54.46 | graphyx | oh yeah.. anyone looking to do security work? |
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| 15:01.13 | hans | graphyx: don't have his number sorry |
| 15:03.19 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 15:03.40 | graphyx | he never shows up in #utah does he? |
| 15:03.50 | *** join/#utah bzob_l (n=bzob_l@office-nat.singleedge.com) |
| 15:04.31 | hans | not often |
| 15:04.39 | hans | I see him on jabber sometimes though |
| 15:04.54 | graphyx | google jabber? |
| 15:06.43 | hans | no, jabber.org |
| 15:07.34 | hans | do you have jabber? |
| 15:08.36 | graphyx | yeah. |
| 15:08.46 | graphyx | I've got gaim. |
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| 15:10.52 | dataw0lf | graphyx: what type of security work? |
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| 15:17.11 | emcnabb | I missed the begining of the conversation. Who usually doesn't show up here? |
| 15:17.19 | hans | mr. ed |
| 15:17.57 | hans | not the horse, or the guy on plug, |
| 15:17.59 | emcnabb | ah, yes |
| 15:18.05 | hans | the guru of gurus |
| 15:18.12 | emcnabb | schallee |
| 15:21.54 | hans | graphyx was looking for his number, has a job opportunity right up his alley |
| 15:23.46 | sjansen | Anyone here familiar with zipzoomfly.com? |
| 15:23.58 | hans | no, but I heard of it yesterday.. was that on plug? |
| 15:24.08 | sjansen | hans: it was on plug |
| 15:24.34 | sjansen | I'm thinking about buying a new hard drive and they have the best price. |
| 15:25.02 | hans | don't get a hard drive. get one of those really neat mercury relay storage devices |
| 15:25.03 | sjansen | Normally, I'd never buy from a company with a name like that, but it was mentioned on plug in the same breathe as newegg. |
| 15:25.33 | hans | They use JSP |
| 15:25.38 | hans | and hav some kind of peanut for a logo |
| 15:25.39 | sjansen | So now I'm trying to decide whether to pay $40 more to get it from newegg, or if I should give zipzoomfly a try. |
| 15:26.10 | hans | their website is NotStupid |
| 15:26.20 | roscivs | It looks more like a jelly bean IMHO. |
| 15:26.37 | sjansen | hans: I'm looking for more useful information. Something along the lines of I bought from ZZF and I don't regret it. |
| 15:27.33 | sjansen | Of better: "I bought from ZZF and when I tried to return the product, they overnighted a support technician who fixed my laptop, repainted my office, and improved the fuel economy of my car." |
| 15:28.06 | hans | buy something for me and have it shipped here. I'll let you know how the customer service was. Maybe one of these: http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=380888 |
| 15:28.53 | hans | shipping maybe? |
| 15:29.00 | Jayce^ | yeah |
| 15:29.53 | Hhhhh | no, free 2nd day of use of your product. You only pay for the 1st one. |
| 15:30.15 | hans | i was hoping it was free if you bought it on the second day of something |
| 15:30.21 | Hhhhh | lol |
| 15:31.09 | sjansen | Looks like they used to be know as googlegear.com |
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| 16:13.23 | sjansen | o/~ Dum dum dum da da dum da da dum. ~/o |
| 16:19.29 | levi | Yo. |
| 16:24.27 | graphyx | ~emluate gir |
| 16:31.57 | graphyx | ibot, emulate gir |
| 16:31.58 | ibot | i need tacos! i need tacos or i'll explode. that happens to me sometimes. |
| 16:41.13 | lars-ut | ~emulate gaz |
| 16:41.15 | ibot | The rightful order has been restored. |
| 16:41.39 | lars-ut | ~emulate Bill |
| 16:41.40 | ibot | Come on, Fang! Let's dance! |
| 16:42.05 | lars-ut | gotta' love Count CocoaFang. |
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| 17:10.48 | maquis | tensai: what happened last night??? |
| 17:19.19 | levi | So, I'm working on porting Markdown to Common Lisp for my blog now. |
| 17:19.41 | levi | Perl does some really wacky stuff with its regular expressions! |
| 17:23.24 | Jayce^ | wacky? |
| 17:23.40 | dataw0lf | excellent way to describe Perl. |
| 17:23.43 | Jayce^ | (yes it does, I'm asking which ones) |
| 17:23.57 | goozbach | not wacky, inspired. |
| 17:24.11 | Jayce^ | goozbach, that's perl6 :) |
| 17:24.28 | Jayce^ | perl5's are forced into some syntax that we all want to change |
| 17:24.30 | levi | Jayce^: Like, ??{ } inside regular expressions so you can make them recursive. |
| 17:24.32 | Jayce^ | for the newer stuff |
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| 17:25.27 | levi | Real regular expressions are not supposed to be able to match balanced parentheses. Not that I hold it against Perl, I think it's kind of cool. But wacky nonetheless. :) |
| 17:25.44 | Jayce^ | why shouldnt' they be able to? |
| 17:27.09 | levi | Jayce^: Um, can /you/ write a regular expression (in the traditional sense) that can match nested balanced parentheses to an arbitrary depth? |
| 17:27.40 | Jayce^ | define traditional in terms of regex... eg, pure POSIX style ones, what? |
| 17:28.05 | Jayce^ | when people thing regex, most consider perl the standard |
| 17:28.07 | levi | In the theoretical sense. |
| 17:28.15 | levi | They did exist before perl, you know. |
| 17:28.38 | Jayce^ | of course, but then they the matured |
| 17:30.30 | Jayce^ | just fyi though, ??{ } is still expiremental, and has a better implementation in perl6 |
| 17:30.47 | Jayce^ | of course, the better implementation goes for all of regex |
| 17:31.27 | levi | I'm just saying that there's a specific definition of the term 'regular expression' in formal language theory, and that they can express exactly those grammars which can be matched via a finite state machine. |
| 17:32.23 | levi | You cannot match a grammar of arbitrarily nested balanced parentheses with a finite state machine. |
| 17:32.25 | Jayce^ | I would definately say that the perl group doesn't subscribe to that definition then :) |
| 17:32.30 | dataw0lf | formal language theory / compiler/parser theory. And, levi is quite correct. |
| 17:33.41 | dataw0lf | Perl took regular expressions and tacked on a bunch of useful but rather 'compromising' stuff (in the eyes of a theorist, which I am not) |
| 17:34.17 | Jayce^ | I can agree with that statement then, yes.. |
| 17:35.05 | dataw0lf | So in the 'traditional' (formal) definition of regular expressions, it's impossible to match balanced parantheses |
| 17:35.14 | levi | By no means to I intend any slight upon perl by any of this, just a minor annoyance at the loss of a useful specific term. |
| 17:35.51 | dataw0lf | It's addressed in most compiler theory classes, since it's a good example to work on. |
| 17:35.51 | levi | Most 'regular expression' libraries, even ones that try to be perl-compatible, still can't match balanced parentheses. |
| 17:36.30 | Jayce^ | levi, understood from that standpoint :) |
| 17:36.36 | levi | BTW, the 'regular' part refers to the type of languages they're supposed to match, so 'regular expression' is now a bit of a misnomer. |
| 17:37.30 | Jayce^ | yes, I agree they try to push it in directions that users see as usable vs theoretical, which is what drives most languages in that genre |
| 17:39.04 | levi | The nasty little side-effect, though, is that now matching these extended pattern languages is an NP-complete problem. |
| 17:39.51 | maquis | levi: guess what |
| 17:39.56 | levi | maquis: what? |
| 17:40.10 | maquis | my partner and i are working on our midterm project... |
| 17:40.15 | maquis | any suggestions? |
| 17:40.30 | levi | maquis: What sort of midterm project? |
| 17:42.06 | levi | The nice thing about real regular expressions is that their runtime is bounded. So, if you can use one to match your language, then you know you can expect reasonable performance. |
| 17:42.28 | maquis | levi: http://classes.eclab.byu.edu/330/wiki/index.cgi?MidtermProject |
| 17:43.04 | Jayce^ | that's part of why they have such an *obtuse* flag on the recursive functionality, so it only has to think about that if it's included.. |
| 17:45.34 | levi | Anyway, the regexp library I'm using (cl-ppcre) doesn't allow recursive expressions, so I just wrote one that would match up to three nested levels. That particular feature of the language is a really bizarre corner case anyway. |
| 17:49.54 | Jayce^ | http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/snakegator.asp ewwwwwwww |
| 17:54.47 | levi | Hmm, the picture's taking a mighty long time to load. |
| 18:00.33 | levi | Woo, I just made my first use of emacs keyboard macros. |
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| 18:38.55 | maquis | levi: quick question |
| 18:39.45 | maquis | uh... never mind |
| 18:39.51 | maquis | it was a stupid question) |
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| 18:40.51 | maquis | levi: another question |
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| 18:41.25 | maquis | we have a function here.. .and we want to return something, then do something else |
| 18:47.14 | goozbach | working with geeks is awesome! |
| 18:47.25 | maquis | goozbach: no kidding |
| 18:47.48 | goozbach | I just got an email from my boss, it stated "you're on for Chicago in two weeks. SYN" |
| 18:48.08 | goozbach | I replied: "ACK/SYN" |
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| 19:02.31 | maquis | please???? |
| 19:02.33 | levi | maquis: (begin <action with side effect> ... <value to return>) |
| 19:02.34 | maquis | er |
| 19:02.43 | maquis | levi: we got something... |
| 19:02.48 | maquis | then the cs dept computer deleted our file |
| 19:02.50 | maquis | so we're starting over |
| 19:03.56 | tensai | maquis: power outage. dropped for me and a few neighbors. came back up about 11, but joanna didn't load its ethernet driver for some reason. I fixed it around 8:30. |
| 19:04.06 | maquis | tensai: ick |
| 19:04.15 | tensai | I need to get a UPS. I'll definitely be getting one before I go VoIP. |
| 19:04.43 | levi | I got a presentation from one of the lawyer dudes at the Utopia project at school yesterday. |
| 19:04.48 | levi | It was pretty interesting. |
| 19:05.00 | levi | I want fiber to my home! |
| 19:05.50 | tensai | what did a lawyer have to say about utopia? was it just a sales pitch? |
| 19:06.11 | levi | Mostly, though he did discuss the other side of the issue a bit. |
| 19:07.52 | levi | He did admit he expected the amount a service provider could charge for telephone service over the network would fall to zero eventually, and video service would follow some time thereafter. But he did expect that the infrastructure would be paid off by then, and other service opportunities would open up. |
| 19:11.31 | tensai | my personal feeling is that municipally owned telecom infrastructure is a Good Thing. let anybody offer services on top of it, of course. I think we'd see an explosion of innovations. |
| 19:13.00 | levi | That's exactly the argument this guy presented. |
| 19:13.45 | levi | With all sorts of depressing graphs about how disgustingly far behind we are here in the US, and the greater SLC area especially, in terms of bandwidth price and availability. |
| 19:13.52 | Jayce^ | levi, we had them at the techbreakfast last week, had some interesting discussion about all that |
| 19:14.10 | Jayce^ | I think the only lame part, is some of the legislated requirements on who can buy directly from utopia |
| 19:14.39 | Jayce^ | they can only "wholesale", but you can't get prices without entering into a non-compete, and you must be deemed by the legislature as a reseller |
| 19:14.51 | Jayce^ | which provides a bit of a barrier to entry for some possible applications |
| 19:15.13 | Jayce^ | for example, if you want to buy some ports for a point to point network/vpn for your company |
| 19:15.21 | levi | From what I understand, the restrictions are supposed to get lower in time. |
| 19:16.21 | Jayce^ | not as we discussed there, apparently a few years back there was a state law put in place that determined who was a 'service provider' and you have to qualify under that to be able to purchase directly from utopia |
| 19:16.25 | Jayce^ | instead of a reseller |
| 19:16.38 | levi | They want to first attract service providers who will generate tons of revenue each, rather than niche services. |
| 19:16.55 | Jayce^ | otherwise they would state that the state entity is competing with their own resellers, and they were providing a service |
| 19:17.24 | Jayce^ | nah, the bigger catch is that, they can't be viewed as a service reseller... only an infrastructure provider |
| 19:17.42 | Jayce^ | so you would have to provide the legal justification to fit the bill.. |
| 19:18.02 | levi | Well, someone asked what it took to become a service provider. He said it was a complex process involving lots of paperwork, but they were hoping/planning to simplify it in the future. |
| 19:18.11 | Jayce^ | that's what our discussion with them boiled down to mostly, since most peopel there were business oflks.. |
| 19:18.51 | Jayce^ | would *love* to see it easier.. they just said it was mostly the legal issues causing the problems.. so figure out that and it'll be easier for anyone else I guess |
| 19:19.31 | Jayce^ | ATM it's currently pretty locked into the current view of an ISP though, instead of other possible services |
| 19:20.03 | Jayce^ | they also talked a bit about the difficulty in providing something like video service, without breaking the varying cities 'franchise' laws.. |
| 19:20.20 | Jayce^ | since comcast has bought out the cable rights to the varous cities |
| 19:21.14 | Jayce^ | one thing I found really interesting though was them discussing how it's very possible that qwest could actually use the utopia infrastructure really easily, but comcast couldn't based on the way they expensed their current infrastructures |
| 19:22.03 | levi | Yeah. It's a shame Qwest is fighting it so hard. |
| 19:22.26 | levi | Though, I guess it does really hurt the future of traditional telephony. |
| 19:22.27 | Jayce^ | qwest has paid for all their wire already, but the cable companies bootstrapped themselves with debt, and just paid interest with revenue.. |
| 19:23.19 | Jayce^ | so they can't switch to running on utopia, because the debt is against the value of the coax, which would then become a worthless asset, and be due |
| 19:24.55 | tensai | Jayce^: wow. I never knew that. |
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| 19:26.09 | sjansen | As far as I'm concerned, hindering access to cheap broadband access should be a capital offense. |
| 19:26.17 | levi | Sounds like a mess for comcast. |
| 19:27.48 | levi | But then, everyone knows real broadband internet is a disruptive technology, and both Qwest and Comcast would much rather stick with their proven revenue models. |
| 19:40.33 | graphyx | goozbach: Shouldn't that be SYN/ACK? |
| 19:44.59 | goozbach | graphyx: either way |
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| 20:05.55 | sjansen | Okay, here's a strange Ubuntu problem: |
| 20:06.00 | sjansen | aptitude install build-essential |
| 20:06.10 | sjansen | build-essential: Depends: libc6-dev but it is not installable |
| 20:08.13 | sjansen | Is the archive.ubuntu.com repository really incomplete? More likely it's my local copy that has a problem. What can I do about this (besides grumble as I distract myself surfing the Web)? |
| 20:11.31 | JoshH | i would do an apt-get update, then an apt-get install build-essential, if its still not installable it will tell you why |
| 20:16.43 | levi | Where's hans? He might appreciate this: http://www.netjam.org/quoth/demo/ |
| 20:18.37 | levi | The whole quoth system is an interesting concept, even though it doesn't look terribly practical. |
| 20:20.17 | sjansen | JoshH: It's telling me why right in the text I pasted earlier. It's saying that libc6-dev is not installable. |
| 20:22.40 | sjansen | I could understand a mirror being incomplete. But I have a hard time believe archive.ubuntu.com is incomplete. |
| 20:22.45 | scott | how do reporters in the field send their video feeds back? |
| 20:23.19 | JoshH | but usually it will tell you what package it depends on is the wrong version or not in the repo or whatever |
| 20:23.54 | sjansen | libc6-dev is the wrong version, my installed libc6 is newer |
| 20:23.54 | JoshH | just saying is not installable is the same as saying "it doesnt work" |
| 20:27.27 | JoshH | you might need to just wait for a new libc6-dev to be uploaded then. are you using hoary, or breezy, or what? |
| 20:27.46 | sjansen | hoary |
| 20:28.18 | sjansen | which is why I find it surprising |
| 20:28.20 | JoshH | hmm, i thought that the releases of ubuntu only had bugfix updates, like debian stable. |
| 20:30.12 | JoshH | try changing your sources to the official ones instead of your local repo, update, and try again. if that doesnt work, then oh well |
| 20:42.57 | mheath | argh! I hate Gentoo! |
| 20:43.44 | emcnabb | you shouldn't use it then |
| 20:44.09 | mheath | I want to use it, it just never installs correctly for me :( |
| 20:44.18 | emcnabb | that stinks |
| 20:44.26 | mheath | It got pretty far this time, but failed when it tried to install a version of Automake that wasn't compatible with the Autoconf it had just installed |
| 20:49.32 | emcnabb | what's the exact error you're getting? |
| 20:50.42 | emcnabb | http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-353547-highlight-automake+autoconf.html?sid=21d203d7baa3dce05e35a222c1dc4f04 |
| 20:51.38 | mheath | emcnabb: ah :) Thanks |
| 20:52.12 | emcnabb | was that the issue you were seeing? |
| 20:52.29 | mheath | I belive so. I'll have to double check things. |
| 21:02.59 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@216-190-206-130.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 21:10.42 | *** join/#utah hans (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 21:13.04 | *** join/#utah JoshH (i=josh@josh.xmission.com) |
| 21:23.44 | *** join/#utah xbmodder_ (n=xbmodder@dsl092-012-130.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 21:29.36 | *** join/#utah SpecialK (n=sjk36@fruits.cs.byu.edu) |
| 21:30.01 | SpecialK | ~lart maquis |
| 21:30.36 | maquis | ~lart SpecialK |
| 21:32.58 | xbmodder_ | cool |
| 21:33.05 | xbmodder_ | ack. LAg! |
| 21:36.53 | xbmodder_ | wow that was POS |
| 21:37.25 | xbmodder_ | lalal. |
| 21:37.26 | *** join/#utah drewbono (n=andrew@c-24-2-95-76.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 21:39.01 | Bradipo | SPF breaks gmail's ``Customized From: addresses'' |
| 21:39.12 | Bradipo | And likely DK would too. |
| 21:39.43 | hans | gmail's cusomized from addresses is just a legit spoof |
| 21:39.59 | Bradipo | I agree, but just one more thorn in SPFs side. |
| 21:40.03 | hans | they make you jump through hoops so they can be good citizens |
| 21:40.11 | xbmodder_ | yes'em! |
| 21:40.16 | hans | no more than any other legit spoof you could have done in the past |
| 21:40.26 | Bradipo | define ``legit spoof'' |
| 21:40.44 | hans | say I'm ssh'ed into my workstation at work but want to send an email as hans@fugal.net |
| 21:40.59 | hans | I can do that if my MUA is not in the way (e.g. set the From header in mutt) |
| 21:41.10 | hans | it's legitimate because I am hans@fugal.net |
| 21:41.10 | Bradipo | Well, but there is a difference between you and the majority of gmail users... |
| 21:41.28 | Bradipo | Most people, at least the ones I work with, don't know how to make your email look like it comes from another address. |
| 21:41.37 | hans | there are lots of email programs that would let you set the from address to something else |
| 21:41.45 | Bradipo | Outlook doesn't. |
| 21:41.48 | hans | eudora has personalities, for example |
| 21:42.10 | hans | sure it does. you can make an outlook account that uses your company's smtp server for your personal account |
| 21:42.14 | Bradipo | Right. |
| 21:42.18 | hans | same problem as gmail |
| 21:42.23 | Bradipo | But that isn't the same as simply adding another address. |
| 21:42.28 | Bradipo | You have to setup another account. |
| 21:42.39 | Bradipo | From the point of view of the user. |
| 21:43.12 | hans | thunderbird lets you do it too. but I'll conced gmail makes it easier than adding a new account |
| 21:43.17 | hans | but the problem ain't new. |
| 21:43.22 | Bradipo | No, it isn't. |
| 21:43.31 | Bradipo | But it is made easier for the masses, which previously really had no clue. |
| 21:43.50 | Bradipo | At least in my experience. |
| 21:44.20 | Bradipo | Everytime I try to explain spoofing, I draw blanks. And I get a number of help requests on ``how do I send email from another email address'' |
| 21:44.22 | hans | so as a sole proprietor do you pay yourself from the business account into equity? |
| 21:44.25 | Bradipo | They think it requires another email account. |
| 21:46.05 | graphyx | Is mysql a default package that is supported by redhat? |
| 21:46.16 | Bradipo | So, I believe using SPF will more difficult to enable due to gmail. |
| 21:46.33 | Bradipo | Certainly, clueful users have already known how to spoof and address. |
| 21:47.01 | RyanE_ | after all, who hasn't gotten an email from god@heaven.com? |
| 21:47.02 | Bradipo | I haven't seen this feature in other webmail (other than sqwebmail) clients. |
| 21:47.10 | Bradipo | RyanE_: I haven't. |
| 21:47.26 | Bradipo | RyanE_: And how many people that receive those ask their email administrators why they got it? |
| 21:47.48 | Bradipo | And how many people ask their email administrators why an email is bouncing to them even though they didn't ever send it? |
| 21:48.21 | tensai | I consistently get reports of delivering email to the wrong mailbox because the user's address isn't in the To header |
| 21:48.32 | RyanE_ | Bradipo: It was a fairly common occurrence 'way back when' (back when I was in school) |
| 21:49.09 | tensai | RyanE_: it was president@whitehouse.gov when I was in school |
| 21:49.52 | hans | graphyx: i'm not sure about all versions, but rhel3 does NOT include MySQL by default |
| 21:49.56 | hans | well, it does the client |
| 21:49.58 | hans | but not the server |
| 21:50.39 | Bradipo | hans: Was your last question directed at me? |
| 21:50.54 | Bradipo | If so, it went over my head. |
| 21:51.16 | hans | no, anyone in general |
| 21:51.28 | Bradipo | Ahh, a financial question? |
| 21:51.32 | hans | yeah |
| 21:57.08 | goozbach | cool command I wish I had known before I needed it: |
| 21:57.13 | goozbach | grub-set-default |
| 21:57.28 | goozbach | combined with setdefault in the grub configfile |
| 21:58.02 | goozbach | combined with default saved in the grub config file |
| 22:00.20 | maquis | goozbach: ?? |
| 22:00.42 | goozbach | maquis: a detailed blog with the reasoning is forthcoming |
| 22:01.02 | maquis | goozbach: cool |
| 22:01.11 | maquis | you mean you guys actually use those blog things? |
| 22:01.32 | goozbach | yup |
| 22:01.39 | goozbach | hey! I blogged last week |
| 22:01.47 | maquis | cool |
| 22:01.51 | goozbach | and I've got three drafts I'm working on at the moment |
| 22:02.04 | maquis | well... that doesn't help until you publish them |
| 22:02.16 | goozbach | I've turned over a new leaf, I'm gonna blog at least once a week from now on |
| 22:03.43 | Jayce^ | so goozbach, what time you coming saturday? |
| 22:04.04 | Jayce^ | come early enough, and we can take some time to look at your barrel |
| 22:04.31 | goozbach | Jayce^: I've got to see if I can finish getting ready for some stuff I have to do that afternoon. |
| 22:04.41 | goozbach | I'll let you know for sure by tomorrow |
| 22:07.16 | Jayce^ | most of us will be done around noonish anyways, so if you come on time, you shouldn't have any problem doing other stuff |
| 22:09.31 | goozbach | well, I've stilll to se if I'm ready for stuff I have to do in the afternoon |
| 22:09.56 | Jayce^ | we know you, how much prep do you need for sleep() |
| 22:12.47 | goozbach | I've got limited access to my XEN server sat afternoon. |
| 22:13.06 | goozbach | I need to get all my ducks in a row so I can complete what I need to do while I'm at the datacenter |
| 22:14.04 | maquis | goozbach: can i have a duck? |
| 22:14.36 | maquis | (preferably a little duckling... they're cute) |
| 22:14.40 | graphyx | When you add a user can you specify that the password is? |
| 22:15.36 | graphyx | and if you just add a user and don't assign a password, does that mean that they can't even brute force the login? |
| 22:16.12 | Bradipo | Yes and usually yes. |
| 22:17.37 | graphyx | hans: I could have looked up ed's number all along on byu.edu. |
| 22:21.37 | *** join/#utah bonez41 (n=aint@c-67-166-77-14.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 23:01.58 | Tene | 17:00 < laitment> Hmm.... IE6 through wine draws a black box and crashes the acid2 test... |
| 23:02.02 | Tene | 17:01 < maxwell> Furthur proof that one shouldnt drink and do acid |
| 23:02.59 | maquis | hehe |
| 23:06.54 | goozbach | graphyx: useradd -p <pre-hashed-passwd> username |
| 23:07.45 | SpecialK | ~duck maquis |
| 23:09.27 | maquis | ~fish SpecialK |
| 23:09.29 | ibot | ACTION slaps SpecialK around with a large trout |
| 23:11.18 | maquis | hmmm |
| 23:11.24 | maquis | how big is 5^511? |
| 23:11.41 | maquis | that seems big... |
| 23:12.22 | goozbach | maquis: bc is your friend |
| 23:12.47 | goozbach | 14916681462400413486581930630925867674752943069200813788543036666412\ |
| 23:12.47 | goozbach | 55677014023660987234978080085560672302320651167220290682545619045060\ |
| 23:12.47 | goozbach | 53209723296591841693829625215846375627549904081485328705258828931087\ |
| 23:12.47 | goozbach | 30127829530828434521177014240063373646006445484595127398530700430674\ |
| 23:12.47 | goozbach | 41211667303325729200722585486710369393731465299801630663978357915766\ |
| 23:12.48 | maquis | i didn't want to open another term |
| 23:12.50 | goozbach | 537189483642578125 |
| 23:12.53 | goozbach | that big |
| 23:12.55 | maquis | goozbach: thanks :) |
| 23:12.59 | maquis | thta's big |
| 23:13.01 | RyanE_ | maquis: it's all relative. Are you measuring something on nano-scale, real-life-scale, or galaxy-scale? |
| 23:13.05 | goozbach | you're running screen, no? |
| 23:13.11 | maquis | goozbach: true |
| 23:13.20 | goozbach | ctrl-a, c |
| 23:13.25 | maquis | yeah... i know |
| 23:13.30 | goozbach | that's what I did |
| 23:13.35 | RyanE_ | or in my case, ctrl-], c. |
| 23:13.54 | goozbach | comeon... what did I teach you screen for if your aren't gonna use it? :) |
| 23:14.00 | maquis | i use it... |
| 23:14.18 | goozbach | then use it well, grasshopper |
| 23:14.50 | SpecialK | ibot, duck $name is <action> gives $name a fuzzy, ugly little duckling, which immediately grows into a full sized swan and which pummels $name with it's big white wings. |
| 23:14.52 | ibot | okay, SpecialK |
| 23:15.36 | levi | maquis: You can get it easily in scheme, too: (expt 5 511) |
| 23:16.08 | maquis | levi: yeah.. but that would involve opening up drscheme while doing cs465 hw |
| 23:16.35 | SpecialK | ibot, duck $name is <action> gives $name a fuzzy, ugly little duckling, which immediately grows into a full sized swan and pummels $name with it's big white wings. |
| 23:16.36 | ibot | ACTION gives $name is <action> gives $name a fuzzy, ugly little duckling, which immediately grows into a full sized swan and pummels $name with it's big white wings. a fuzzy, ugly little duckling, which immediately grows into a full sized swan and which pummels $name is <action> gives $name a fuzzy, ugly little duckling, which immediately grows into a full sized ... |
| 23:16.37 | SpecialK | ~duck maquis |
| 23:16.38 | ibot | ACTION gives maquis a fuzzy, ugly little duckling, which immediately grows into a full sized swan and which pummels maquis with it's big white wings. |
| 23:22.52 | maquis | question... in memset, why is the second parameter an int? |
| 23:23.31 | maquis | seems to me that it ought to be an unsigned char |
| 23:24.32 | levi | It's converted to one. |
| 23:24.44 | maquis | levi: so, why call it an int? |
| 23:24.55 | levi | Probably for convenience, so it doesn't complain when you pass a literal int. |
| 23:24.57 | maquis | why not have it just *take* an unsigned char |
| 23:25.32 | maquis | hmmm... |
| 23:25.35 | levi | The literal 0 is an int, and it's probably the most often-passed value to memset. |
| 23:25.39 | maquis | i guess that might make sense |
| 23:26.22 | levi | It would be annoying to memset(foo, (unsigned char)0, 10) |
| 23:26.50 | maquis | hmmm... |
| 23:27.26 | maquis | since the whole point is to learn how to do a modular exponent |
| 23:33.40 | *** join/#utah LiNoobux (n=LiNoobux@c-67-171-122-139.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 23:33.52 | LiNoobux | whoa... more people in here than I expected |
| 23:33.56 | LiNoobux | hey all |
| 23:34.01 | LiNoobux | this is my first time here |
| 23:34.10 | *** join/#utah colera (n=colera@158.91.203.5) |
| 23:37.43 | levi | Hi there. |
| 23:37.51 | LiNoobux | hey, levi |
| 23:38.12 | levi | There are a lot more people in the channel than there are people actively participating. |
| 23:38.29 | LiNoobux | typical irc then lol |
| 23:38.46 | levi | Yup. |
| 23:39.02 | LiNoobux | I was in the slackware linux room and there were 200+ people in there with about five or so chatting |
| 23:39.19 | maquis | ~fish levi |
| 23:39.21 | ibot | ACTION slaps levi around with a large trout |
| 23:39.30 | levi | maquis: Hey! |
| 23:39.47 | LiNoobux | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:39.52 | maquis | :) |
| 23:39.56 | maquis | :-D |
| 23:39.59 | maquis | LiNoobux: hi |
| 23:40.01 | maquis | and welcome |
| 23:40.06 | LiNoobux | hey, maquis |
| 23:40.11 | LiNoobux | thx |
| 23:40.19 | LiNoobux | so what's this chat all about anyway? |
| 23:40.37 | LiNoobux | just a bunch of utahns getting together? |
| 23:40.50 | SpecialK | exactly what the topic says |
| 23:41.18 | LiNoobux | OSS? |
| 23:42.03 | LiNoobux | I found out about this chat on the oalug site |
| 23:42.16 | SpecialK | Open Source Software, including GNU/Linux |
| 23:42.37 | LiNoobux | ahh I see |
| 23:42.41 | LiNoobux | duh hahaha |
| 23:42.54 | LiNoobux | thanks I was actually scratching my head on that one |
| 23:44.50 | SpecialK | Yeah, there is a lot of stuff to learn for a newb, and not always a clear place on where to find the answers |
| 23:45.29 | LiNoobux | yeah I know. I go to a chat and ask a question, and everyone just tells me to read the docs |
| 23:45.32 | mheath | Why isn't the term "GNU+Linux"? That seems so much more appropriate than "GNU/Linux". |
| 23:46.54 | SpecialK | Ask RMS. He's the one who insists we call it that. |
| 23:47.20 | maquis | mheath: it isn't either of them... it's just Linux |
| 23:47.26 | mheath | maquis: Linux is a kernel. |
| 23:47.34 | LiNoobux | well, go to www.gnu.org it explains more there on their home page about why it's called that |
| 23:48.02 | LiNoobux | or maybe it's just because GNU/linux is faster to type than holding the shift key and hitting + |
| 23:48.04 | mheath | LiNoobux: No, it explains that GNU should be included in the name, and that it shouldn't just be called "Linux" |
| 23:48.15 | mheath | It makes no arugment for why "GNU/Linux" should be used over "GNU+Linux" |
| 23:48.42 | LiNoobux | why the + then? |
| 23:48.45 | LiNoobux | do you think? |
| 23:48.52 | maquis | LiNoobux: i personally disagree with the claim that it should be called gnu/linux... |
| 23:49.00 | mheath | maquis: let me put it this way |
| 23:49.18 | mheath | I've developed for GNU Hurd, which is sort of the kernel of the GNU Operating System |
| 23:49.20 | maquis | i've read the explanation multiple times, and i know what the claimed rationale is |
| 23:49.45 | maquis | mheath: so is that going to be GNU/GNU Hurd? |
| 23:50.16 | mheath | When people call Linux distributions "Linux", it's like they completely ignore all the work me and others have done on GNU/Hurd, take the rest of the opearting system, and ignore it's name. |
| 23:50.30 | maquis | mheath: hurd is not part of linux |
| 23:50.48 | levi | Woo, I got tickets for the Dvorak symphony at Abravanel tomorrow. |
| 23:50.49 | mheath | maquis: I didn't say it was. Reread what I said. |
| 23:51.08 | maquis | you're saying that if they don't call it gnu/linux, they're ignoring the work you've done on hurd |
| 23:51.13 | maquis | hurd is completely separate |
| 23:51.46 | maquis | none of hurd is inside of linux |
| 23:52.06 | mheath | maquis: Hurd is the kernel of the GNU operating system. When Torvalds decided that GNU would be the operating system that would run on Linux, he just ignored GNU/Hurd, took the rest of the operating system, and called it all by his own name. |
| 23:52.14 | maquis | now... there are plenty of gnu utilities that are used in linux, but they are distinct from the OS itself |
| 23:52.40 | maquis | mheath: how are you calling GNU the operating system that runs on linux? |
| 23:52.40 | mheath | maquis: My point is........Say someone used 90% of a program you designed in their own program |
| 23:53.05 | maquis | mheath: GNU is not an operating system that runs on linux |
| 23:53.05 | LiNoobux | that's what open source is all about, man |
| 23:53.11 | mheath | Would you consider it ludicrous for you to ask that the person acknwoledged that in the name of their new program, though? |
| 23:53.13 | LiNoobux | if you want credit, go to microsoft |
| 23:53.32 | mheath | maquis: yes, it is. |
| 23:53.36 | mheath | Linux is a kernel |
| 23:53.49 | SpecialK | look, you went and chased Tim away. |
| 23:53.50 | mheath | GNU provides all the basic utilities, the C library, the linker, etc, etc. |
| 23:53.53 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@67-41-182-14.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 23:54.01 | LiNoobux | lol, SpecialK |
| 23:54.03 | maquis | mheath: that doesn't make it an operating system |
| 23:54.08 | hans | hmm, I can't figure out why itunes doesn't like my podcast feed |
| 23:54.17 | mheath | maquis: what makes something an operating system? |
| 23:54.26 | maquis | utilities, libraries, linkers, etc aren't the operating system... they're utilities... |
| 23:54.28 | hans | unless it's mad that I have ogg, but that seems awfully odd |
| 23:54.38 | maquis | mheath: an operating system is primarily composed of the kernel |
| 23:54.58 | maquis | things like memory management, process management, etc... |
| 23:55.23 | maquis | utilities run as processes on top of the OS |
| 23:55.23 | LiNoobux | sorry, hans I can't help ya |
| 23:55.42 | mheath | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_System |
| 23:55.57 | mheath | maquis: so you argue that the term "kernel" is redundant, then? |
| 23:56.06 | mheath | As it means exactly the same thing as "operating system"? |
| 23:56.15 | maquis | no... i'm saying that the majority of an OS is the kernel |
| 23:56.29 | maquis | so, if gnu doesn't provide the kernel, it's not the OS |
| 23:56.39 | maquis | therefore, you ca'nt claim that GNU is an OS that runs on linux |
| 23:57.13 | SpecialK | and considering there is still no operating system in use developed by the GNU organization, the catchy name will be about all you seen in most stiuations. |
| 23:57.30 | mheath | SpecialK: What are you talking about? |
| 23:57.33 | mheath | Could have fooled me |
| 23:57.43 | mheath | Apparently I DIDN'T just get done installing GNU on the computer next to me.... |
| 23:57.56 | maquis | mheath: i have no problem with GNU Hurd, GNU debugger, etc... |
| 23:58.03 | mheath | SpecialK: and GNU is not an organization |
| 23:58.07 | mheath | Its an operating system |
| 23:58.12 | mheath | FSF is the organization that creates GNU |
| 23:58.21 | maquis | mheath: GNU is not just an os |
| 23:58.25 | maquis | otherwise what's the GNU Debugger? |
| 23:58.29 | maquis | it's certainly not an OS |
| 23:58.41 | SpecialK | I ommitted the term general or widespread because I assumed it to be implicit. |
| 23:58.42 | mheath | maquis: thats because you have a warped concept of what an operating system is. |
| 23:58.53 | maquis | mheath: have you taken an Operating Systems clsas? |
| 23:58.54 | mheath | maquis: again, please read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_System |
| 23:59.46 | goozbach | LiNoobux: THIS is what open source software is all about. |
| 23:59.49 | mheath | maquis: no, but I know that Andrew Tannenbaum agrees with me on this issue. And he wrote the books that were the standard textbooks for operating system classes for years. |