| 03:07.37 | *** join/#utah ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 03:07.37 | *** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, uphpu.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com. See planetutah.adelantellc.com for aggregate feeds |
| 03:07.37 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 03:16.48 | graphyx | Ok what is the easiest way to get to single user mode? |
| 03:16.53 | graphyx | I forgot the root on this one system. |
| 03:17.02 | graphyx | and don't want to mount a knoppix cd. |
| 03:17.19 | maquis | graphyx: i know that you have to edit the kernel line in grub |
| 03:17.30 | maquis | i think you just add an s at the end, but i could be wrong |
| 03:18.03 | maquis | someone else could probably give you a better answer |
| 03:19.10 | goozbach | graphyx: which distro? |
| 03:19.13 | graphyx | gentoo. |
| 03:19.18 | goozbach | eek |
| 03:19.19 | graphyx | Add a 1 to the end of the kernel line in grub |
| 03:19.29 | goozbach | you answered with the only distro I'm not sure about |
| 03:19.41 | goozbach | a 1 or an s is the standard way |
| 03:19.45 | graphyx | heh.; |
| 03:19.45 | graphyx | IT's ok. |
| 03:19.47 | graphyx | google is my friend |
| 03:19.51 | goozbach | but we all know how standard gentoo is... |
| 03:20.16 | *** join/#utah bigdog_ut (n=bigdog_u@shylonhunter.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 03:20.37 | maquis | w00t! i was kinda right! |
| 03:21.13 | graphyx | well it doesn't do what I needed it to. |
| 03:21.19 | graphyx | single user mode prompts for a password still. |
| 03:21.35 | goozbach | yeah, you may have to do something drastic |
| 03:21.39 | graphyx | so instead i need to add init=/bin/bash to the end of the line |
| 03:21.43 | goozbach | like init=/bin/bash |
| 03:21.48 | goozbach | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:21.52 | goozbach | then remount / rw |
| 03:22.06 | graphyx | yeah.. |
| 03:22.10 | goozbach | then remove the root password from /etc/passwd or /etc/shadow |
| 03:22.13 | maquis | goozbach: do you have to do the remounting, if you reboot and just add those to the kernle line? |
| 03:22.22 | goozbach | maquis: yup |
| 03:22.31 | goozbach | with init=/bin/bash |
| 03:22.38 | maquis | that's ugly |
| 03:22.53 | goozbach | the init script takes care of it if you boot into single user mode |
| 03:22.56 | maquis | why did single-user mode want a password? |
| 03:22.56 | graphyx | goozbach can't you just call passwd to change it with the system remounted? |
| 03:23.18 | goozbach | graphyx: maybe |
| 03:23.24 | goozbach | depends on the partition setup |
| 03:24.00 | graphyx | I tried passwd and it gave me token manipulation error. |
| 03:24.11 | graphyx | so just purging the root line in the shadow file will allow me to log in? |
| 03:25.12 | maquis | "System Error: Success!" |
| 03:26.46 | maquis | ipes!!!!! |
| 03:27.01 | graphyx | yeah.. I had to mount / -o remount,ew |
| 03:27.05 | graphyx | s/ew/rw/ |
| 03:27.12 | graphyx | Thanks. |
| 03:29.01 | graphyx | wow.. |
| 03:29.14 | graphyx | I did one of my standard passwords two times to change it fast |
| 03:29.24 | graphyx | and managed to mess up the password the same way twice. |
| 03:29.28 | graphyx | and it accepted it. |
| 03:29.37 | graphyx | but I couldn't get it to authenticate me afterwards... |
| 03:30.50 | maquis | graphyx: there's a kid in the cs dept who did that while setting up his account |
| 03:31.16 | maquis | he says it regularly takes about 10 minutes to log in |
| 03:32.21 | graphyx | nice... |
| 03:32.50 | maquis | yeah |
| 03:32.59 | maquis | whenever he's tried to change it, he finally gave up |
| 03:33.03 | maquis | he's a senior |
| 03:33.09 | maquis | and he did this as a freshman |
| 03:34.16 | graphyx | Like I was saying to one of my co-workers. It isn't particularly effective if you have to brute force guess your own password... |
| 03:44.05 | maquis | graphyx: yeah |
| 03:45.40 | xbmodder_lappy | Does anyone know why a Treo can't run Linux? |
| 03:46.07 | maquis | xbmodder_lappy: my initial guess is that people haven't put together a distro that works with it? |
| 03:46.43 | xbmodder_lappy | maquis, or a kernel. |
| 03:47.11 | maquis | or that... |
| 03:47.11 | maquis | so... why were you asking? |
| 03:51.19 | xbmodder_lappy | Because a treo with linux would be like a kid in a candy shop or a teenager with a playboy magazine. |
| 03:55.30 | maquis | is there a command-line utility to convert from ogg to mp3 (for a friend) |
| 03:55.31 | maquis | ? |
| 04:05.55 | xbmodder_lappy | lame |
| 04:06.09 | xbmodder_lappy | (its an encoder) |
| 04:06.15 | xbmodder_lappy | not lame mp3 is |
| 04:06.19 | xbmodder_lappy | but just lame |
| 04:09.25 | maquis | yes... |
| 04:09.36 | maquis | i just figured out how to get it... |
| 04:09.45 | maquis | i had to convert to wav frst, though... |
| 04:10.21 | xbmodder_lappy | http://www.fedex.com/Tracking?action=track&tracknumbers=723417863367& < track my order (it'll be fun) |
| 04:10.23 | maquis | and about 30 seconds before i got it, the friend i was doing it for signed off |
| 04:10.32 | xbmodder_lappy | audacity? |
| 04:10.53 | maquis | xbmodder_lappy: i didn't want to bring it down and then have to upload it again |
| 04:11.00 | maquis | and i can't get X forwarding working right |
| 04:11.08 | maquis | so, i was looking for command-line only :) |
| 04:11.09 | xbmodder_lappy | ouch |
| 04:25.51 | elg | levi: ping |
| 04:26.00 | levi | elg: pong |
| 04:26.31 | elg | you have an ibook, right? |
| 04:26.38 | levi | Yup. |
| 04:26.39 | elg | does your fan ever come on? |
| 04:26.44 | levi | Occasionally. |
| 04:26.58 | elg | mine never does. never. unless I'm in linux and then it does |
| 04:27.05 | elg | when it gets warm... |
| 04:27.08 | levi | Usually when it's sitting on a non-optimal surface and doing some heavy processing. |
| 04:27.23 | levi | It's very rare, though. |
| 04:27.43 | levi | I often go months without hearing the fan. |
| 04:27.49 | elg | so I know the fan works fine, since it works in linux, but the 'top gets uncomfortably hot (forget the CPU, I'm just trying to keep _me_ cool :-) |
| 04:28.32 | mheath | Hmmm |
| 04:28.39 | elg | when I'm plugged into A/C I'd love to have the fan run almost continually if it meant the laptop didn't contribute to my trying to stay cool |
| 04:28.47 | elg | er, you know what I mean |
| 04:28.49 | levi | Mine definitely gets hot, but no hotter than my Crusoe-powered Vaio, so I figure it's unavoidable. |
| 04:28.56 | elg | but I can't find any way to configure it in osx |
| 04:28.58 | mheath | Can anyone recommend a good Window Manager? I'm looking for something thats not TOO ugly, but small, doesn't waste space, doesn't get in the way....very functional |
| 04:29.11 | byronc | mheath: ion :) |
| 04:29.11 | levi | elg: I think it's totally firmware-controlled. |
| 04:29.27 | elg | doubt it. it's configurable in linux |
| 04:29.41 | elg | a lot of people don't like linux' defaults because it is over-eager and they want no fan noise |
| 04:29.47 | levi | Hmm. Well, I'm not aware of any way to configure it. |
| 04:30.06 | elg | all my googling over the past half hour hasn't found anything either. |
| 04:30.29 | levi | I don't want fan noise either. I think you need to get a higher temperature tolerance. Like coffee drinkers and their piping hot coffee. |
| 04:30.43 | levi | I just compiled my first Dylan program. |
| 04:31.25 | elg | :) I think I'm doing pretty good living here and not complaining. |
| 04:31.54 | mheath | byronc: thanks! :) |
| 04:31.54 | levi | elg: Maybe you just need some insulation between the laptop and your lap. Like an empty 3-ring binder. |
| 04:32.16 | levi | elg: It'll keep you comfortable, and help the laptop cool better as well! |
| 04:32.29 | mheath | I have several preference as far as WMs go, but I was looking for something very functional to use on my development/coding box. This looks like the perfect thing :) |
| 04:32.50 | byronc | mheath: just be warned that it takes a little while to get used to it |
| 04:33.01 | elg | ion is really nifty, in the right situations |
| 04:33.13 | elg | for mostly-coding environments I highly recommend it. makes it easier to stay on task |
| 04:33.28 | elg | for lots-of-little-and-or-transient-windows it's not so goo |
| 04:33.29 | elg | d |
| 04:33.49 | elg | levi: you're probably right |
| 04:33.58 | byronc | elg: you can always stick those ones in a Float workspace, but it is a little annoying |
| 04:34.10 | elg | right |
| 04:34.20 | mheath | I'll give ion a try in a bit |
| 04:34.43 | mheath | I'm currently working on reinstalling the OS on almost all of my computers and completely reorganizing things, so it may be a bit before I can give it a try :) |
| 04:34.49 | levi | I've found OS X to be fairly functional as a work environment. I just cmd-h the really distracting apps and use a combination of Quicksilver, cmd-tab, and cmd-` to get around. |
| 04:34.57 | elg | I think a I'd really like a situation where the screen is partitioned into a "normal" space and ion-like space |
| 04:35.20 | elg | so I can have things ionized except in this one area where things can just happen |
| 04:36.02 | mheath | I really wish I could find a SCSI CD-ROM drive! |
| 04:36.21 | mheath | I'm going to try a round-about method of installing Solaris via Jumpstart with an x86 host |
| 04:36.33 | mheath | but the only approved way of doing jumpstart is from a host with the same arch as the client |
| 04:36.52 | mheath | I'm going to be using a couple tricks to avoid known problems, but I dunno if it will work..... |
| 04:39.30 | maquis | byronc: ion space??? |
| 04:40.34 | byronc | maquis: ion window manager: http://iki.fi/tuomov/ion/ |
| 04:41.18 | maquis | hmmm... |
| 04:41.28 | maquis | that looks like it could be interesting |
| 04:42.12 | maquis | 'tis hard when you have one you like, but who knows... maybe there's something i'll find that will be even better |
| 04:42.53 | maquis | ~applaud goozbach |
| 04:48.32 | maquis | ooh... |
| 04:48.34 | maquis | that's coool |
| 04:48.52 | maquis | i didn't know that <esc> 3 == <alt>-3 |
| 04:49.02 | levi | Yup. |
| 04:49.19 | levi | It's handy sometimes. |
| 04:49.39 | maquis | that could've been really handy on occasion |
| 04:50.08 | maquis | if you have to use putty to get in, putty seems to capture the alt, but i'm guessing i could switch workspaces with this trick |
| 05:02.48 | maquis | hmmm... |
| 05:02.58 | maquis | badwm sounds rather like a clone of evilwm |
| 05:04.01 | maquis | and both of them have really poor screenshots on their sites |
| 05:06.00 | maquis | i don't think there's actually a difference |
| 05:17.48 | xbmodder_lappy | lol |
| 05:18.11 | xbmodder_lappy | mheath, why do you need a SCSI CD-ROM drive? |
| 05:18.14 | maquis | the only difference i can see from the website is that it uses a config file instead of compiling all the preferences in |
| 05:21.42 | levi | Heh, check this nifty code fragment out: http://www.gwydiondylan.org/fragments/closures.phtml |
| 05:22.58 | xbmodder_lappy | cool |
| 05:25.29 | *** join/#utah Hhhhh (n=cristoba@c-67-169-244-47.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 05:26.06 | levi | Note the easy inclusion of C functions. |
| 05:27.29 | xbmodder_lappy | Hhhhh, hey |
| 05:27.46 | Hhhhh | hello |
| 05:28.08 | Hhhhh | hmm, levi, still in Lisp-praising mode? |
| 05:28.08 | Hhhhh | ;) |
| 05:28.22 | levi | Hhhhh: No, Dylan: http://www.gwydiondylan.org/fragments/closures.phtml |
| 05:30.19 | maquis | grr |
| 05:30.23 | maquis | phantom's down |
| 05:33.03 | *** join/#utah findlay (n=justin@208.187.196.229) |
| 05:33.33 | Hhhhh | oh, I've heard nice stuff about Dylan |
| 05:36.42 | Newsome | maquis: looks like phantom is still up, but BYU isn't routing those IPs anymore. |
| 05:37.22 | Newsome | maquis: you should be able to hit it from within CS |
| 05:37.50 | maquis | Newsome: why aren't we getting routed? |
| 05:38.01 | maquis | is it just general OIT stuff again? |
| 05:38.40 | maquis | you know... we don't run anything on that box...... there's really no reason that we have it......... |
| 05:38.43 | maquis | grrr |
| 05:38.47 | Newsome | they told CS to change IP ranges, and phantom is one of the last hosts on the old IPs |
| 05:39.06 | maquis | ok... i'm not sure that makes sense, but ok |
| 05:39.07 | maquis | :) |
| 05:39.46 | maquis | Newsome: what would it involve to get it back up? is it a lot of work? |
| 05:39.47 | Newsome | I got a call from them earlier today, and they wanted to know the status of us getting off the old IPs. I told them to talk with Klark about it. |
| 05:40.00 | maquis | ok... cool stuff |
| 05:40.40 | Newsome | maquis: we can assign it a new address, then make a change or two on the firewall. It's not too involved |
| 05:41.02 | maquis | cool... we'd appreciate it when you get the chance :) |
| 05:44.08 | maquis | quick question... i've got a weird thing where, if i hit backspace in the terminal in certain situations, it takes it as ^H... i know there's a way to set that, but i can't figure out where/what it is... |
| 05:44.21 | Newsome | stty erase |
| 05:44.33 | maquis | cool! thanks! |
| 05:44.47 | maquis | is that something that'll just get saved someplace, or do i need to stick it in a config someplace? |
| 05:46.13 | maquis | Newsome: just 'stty erase \^h'? |
| 05:46.43 | Newsome | you could put it in .bashrc, or something, but you might want to figure out what's making it happen |
| 05:47.33 | maquis | Newsome: i've never had this problem in the past, but since i installed fc4, whenever i am in X it has this problem (before i startx, everything works fine) |
| 05:47.55 | Newsome | stty erase ^H (you can make the ^H by using Ctrl-V, then Ctrl-H) |
| 05:48.07 | maquis | mmmk |
| 05:48.20 | maquis | any idea what could be causing the problem? is this common? |
| 05:48.26 | Newsome | you might want to check to see what your term is set to |
| 05:48.31 | Newsome | echo $TERM |
| 05:48.52 | maquis | [osiris erins] echo $TERM |
| 05:48.52 | maquis | Eterm |
| 05:50.54 | Newsome | http://library.n0i.net/linux-unix/faq/eterm/#q12 |
| 05:52.37 | maquis | Newsome: cool... thanks! |
| 05:55.05 | *** join/#utah tensai (n=tensai@kite.zmonkey.org) |
| 06:02.08 | findlay | recompiling the kernel for ksirtet? |
| 06:02.32 | maquis | findlay: kismet |
| 06:02.43 | findlay | is that like tetris |
| 06:02.49 | findlay | maybe |
| 06:02.50 | maquis | requires a more recent version of ipw2200 than what redhat provides |
| 06:02.53 | maquis | findlay: no |
| 06:03.01 | maquis | it's a wireless tool |
| 06:03.09 | maquis | ah |
| 06:03.29 | findlay | FC4? |
| 06:03.35 | maquis | yup |
| 06:03.42 | maquis | redhat's stupid kernel is driving me crazy |
| 06:03.48 | findlay | (: |
| 06:04.01 | maquis | and you still smile upside down |
| 06:04.22 | findlay | backwards, rather |
| 06:04.39 | maquis | if :) is right, then (: is upside down |
| 06:05.01 | findlay | . . |
| 06:05.03 | findlay | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:05.07 | findlay | is upright |
| 06:05.29 | maquis | i don't know... |
| 06:05.34 | findlay | N |
| 06:05.36 | findlay | . |
| 06:05.37 | maquis | i consider :) to be the way to do it |
| 06:05.44 | findlay | ok |
| 06:05.47 | maquis | granted, even on paper, i smile with :) |
| 06:05.53 | findlay | ibot: :) is the way to do it |
| 06:05.54 | ibot | ...but ) is already something else... |
| 06:06.02 | findlay | ibot: ":)" is the way to do it |
| 06:06.04 | ibot | findlay: what are you talking about? |
| 06:06.13 | findlay | ibot: duh |
| 06:06.15 | ibot | i guess duh is an exclamation showing absence of common knowledge |
| 06:06.26 | maquis | ibot: that's correct |
| 06:06.27 | findlay | or germane knowledge in this case |
| 06:06.50 | xbmodder_lappy | ~) |
| 06:06.51 | ibot | (: |
| 06:06.55 | xbmodder_lappy | lol |
| 06:06.58 | findlay | jinx |
| 06:07.06 | xbmodder_lappy | rm -rf findlay |
| 06:07.16 | maquis | ~segfault findlay |
| 06:07.17 | ibot | ACTION executes findlay and -9teLdR/;+#Segmentation fault. |
| 06:09.17 | findlay | ssh rootkit@xbmodder_lappy "/bin/hax0r_s4b0t0g3" |
| 06:09.42 | maquis | findlay: nice |
| 06:10.49 | maquis | findlay: here's a scary thought |
| 06:11.04 | findlay | oooh |
| 06:11.08 | maquis | one of my friends is working on trying to imrpove a website that was handed to her control... |
| 06:11.16 | maquis | she started looking into why it was *so* slow.... |
| 06:11.31 | maquis | and discovered that it doesn't use any databases at all... |
| 06:11.38 | maquis | it's completely driven by... flatfiles.... |
| 06:12.00 | Newsome | flatfile is a form of database |
| 06:12.03 | maquis | (and we're talking a pretty-big website with a lot of information) |
| 06:12.10 | maquis | Newsome: not a "real" database, i guess... |
| 06:12.40 | maquis | anyway... now that newsome has stolen my thunder...... |
| 06:12.41 | findlay | as I understand it a "real" database is a set of related flat files, tables |
| 06:13.23 | findlay | I thouhgt you were goung to say the server had parasites running on it or some kind of relay for alt.binaries |
| 06:13.26 | findlay | (: |
| 06:13.36 | Newsome | flatfile is a poor storage format for a database, though. |
| 06:14.52 | findlay | probably not for system configuration |
| 06:15.26 | Newsome | A real database-driven website would almost certainly show speed improvements on a large website |
| 06:15.38 | Newsome | right, for system configuration, flatfiles are perfect |
| 06:16.16 | thor | you've all stolen my thunder!!! |
| 06:16.26 | Newsome | way better than something like the registry |
| 06:16.40 | findlay | small data, high effectiveness |
| 06:17.55 | maquis | i agree that flatfiles are great for configs... |
| 06:18.06 | maquis | (it bugged me to no end that you don't get config files in windoze) |
| 06:18.35 | findlay | and don't you dare investigate those system files in c:/windows! |
| 06:19.44 | maquis | i was trying to fix some things that were *really* annoying in LookOut, and i couldn't find where in the world they'd hidden the buttons i needed to click |
| 06:20.01 | maquis | and i knew that if only there was a config file, things would've been so much easier |
| 06:20.12 | findlay | I've felt that way before |
| 06:20.22 | Newsome | You can do some pretty cool stuff with the registry (if you know how to get at them), but it's so much harder |
| 06:20.44 | findlay | in KDE it took me a couple of weeks to remember where the check box for icon text shadowing was |
| 06:21.08 | maquis | config files are easy and powerful |
| 06:21.24 | maquis | reg-editing is crazy, from what i've seen |
| 06:21.24 | findlay | especially if they are *fully* documented |
| 06:21.40 | *** join/#utah ihateoldpeople (i=nobody@dsl092-015-136.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 06:21.47 | findlay | how many hidden command line options might there be for outlook? |
| 06:21.58 | *** part/#utah ihateoldpeople (i=nobody@dsl092-015-136.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 06:22.27 | maquis | findlay: who knows... :) |
| 06:22.45 | *** join/#utah old_person_hater (i=nobody@dsl092-015-136.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 06:22.52 | old_person_hater | lol |
| 06:22.54 | old_person_hater | it is :) |
| 06:22.58 | findlay | (: |
| 06:23.04 | maquis | old_person_hater: go talk to sjansen |
| 06:23.11 | findlay | ~wake sjansen |
| 06:23.13 | ibot | sjansen: GOOD MORNING!!! |
| 06:23.53 | maquis | findlay: for some reason, i just thought that might work... |
| 06:24.00 | maquis | granted, i've been a bit off today |
| 06:24.19 | maquis | this morning, i picked up my toothbrush with one hand, and reached for my soap with the other |
| 06:24.24 | findlay | lookout.exe /DUH /W_NO_BUGS /f_TURN_ON_REAL_SECURITY |
| 06:24.32 | maquis | on the way to the soap, my brain attempted to start..... |
| 06:24.43 | maquis | my brain said something on the order of "nope... that's not it" |
| 06:25.16 | maquis | and then my brain stopped, so i spent 3-4 seconds sitting there holding the toothbrush, and trying to figure out what the other item i needed was |
| 06:26.54 | findlay | lookout.exe /BACKDOOR "C:\WINDOWS\VOODOO FILES\hack this baby.com" |
| 06:27.05 | findlay | maquis: that's funny |
| 06:27.06 | maquis | haha |
| 06:27.18 | maquis | findlay: mornings are not the best time of day for e |
| 06:27.25 | findlay | e? |
| 06:27.32 | findlay | euler's number? |
| 06:27.34 | findlay | hm |
| 06:27.40 | maquis | haha |
| 06:40.50 | *** join/#utah findlay (n=justin@208.187.196.229) |
| 07:13.18 | xbmodder_lappy | hey |
| 11:04.22 | *** join/#utah emcnabb_ (n=emcnabb@67-41-182-14.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 11:23.36 | *** join/#utah mheath_ (i=mheath@c-67-161-213-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 12:14.40 | sjansen | ~lart irssi |
| 12:21.07 | sjansen | http://www.avdf.com/jan98/hum_h003.html |
| 12:26.26 | sjansen | ~seen fozzmoo |
| 12:26.33 | ibot | fozzmoo <n=fozz@65.89.233.46> was last seen on IRC in channel #utah, 19h 23m 3s ago, saying: 'K.'. |
| 12:26.46 | sjansen | ~seen ibot |
| 12:26.47 | ibot | ibot is currently on #openzaurus (9h 19m) #gpe (9h 19m) #silvercat (9h 19m) #opie (9h 19m) #bzflag (9h 19m) #familiar (9h 19m) #brlcad (9h 19m) #uclibc (9h 19m) #handhelds.org (9h 19m) #utah (9h 19m) #oe (9h 19m) #zaurus (9h 19m) #elinux (9h 19m) #gllug (9h 19m) #intimate (9h 19m) #tomcat (9h 19m) |
| 12:27.36 | sjansen | #intimate?! /me isn't sure he wants to know what ibot does in her spare time... |
| 13:23.10 | graphyx | Morning. |
| 13:55.31 | sjansen | graphyx: no it isn't |
| 13:55.50 | sjansen | it's evening, you just woke up late today |
| 13:56.41 | graphyx | you are right. |
| 13:56.50 | graphyx | I woke up at 6:40 instead of my usual 6:00 |
| 13:56.56 | graphyx | And I still feel hammered. |
| 14:04.01 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wade@66.237.80.85) |
| 14:35.17 | dataw0lf | graphyx: hammered? |
| 14:35.22 | dataw0lf | Just drink more. |
| 14:35.25 | dataw0lf | it's instacure |
| 14:37.48 | sjansen | dataw0lf: I think he was actually saying his neighbor was too legit to quit playing his MC Hammer collection all night. |
| 14:38.26 | dataw0lf | sjansen: god, that's even worse. |
| 14:38.38 | dataw0lf | giving me a headache just thinking about it. |
| 14:39.12 | sjansen | tsk, tsk, taking the name of diety in vain |
| 14:39.35 | sjansen | we're going to have to introduce you to graphyx's neighbor |
| 14:40.59 | dataw0lf | it's sad when I'm the one who spells deity right though. |
| 14:41.02 | dataw0lf | :p |
| 14:41.37 | sjansen | It's not my fault irssi doesn't have a spell checker. |
| 14:42.02 | sjansen | Or are you implying I should actually learn to spell on my own? That's barbaric! |
| 14:42.18 | dataw0lf | :D |
| 14:43.16 | dataw0lf | you know, it's sad, KDE is kind of pretty. Too bad it's incredibly useless. |
| 14:43.22 | dataw0lf | I guess the same could be said of OS X though. |
| 14:43.43 | dataw0lf | just joking just joking. I've just had 4 cups of coffee this morning and I'm feeling feisty. |
| 14:45.57 | sjansen | Wow. Hammer became a priest. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MC_Hammer |
| 14:46.15 | maquis | http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20051004-5382.html |
| 14:46.54 | sjansen | "Hammer was recently seen in a television ad for Lays potato chips. Some kids lose their baseball over the fence of a neighbour apparently infamous for not returning lost toys, so they throw him a bag of chips to appease him. He throws back their ball, their dog, a car belonging to one of the kid's dad and MC Hammer, still dressed in golden sparkle shirt and parachute pants. MC Hammer instantly breaks into the chorus of "Can't Touch This." The kids then toss |
| 14:47.38 | dataw0lf | sjansen, please continue. |
| 14:48.15 | dataw0lf | ah |
| 14:48.27 | dataw0lf | "The kids then toss Hammer back over the fence." |
| 14:48.31 | dataw0lf | muaha |
| 14:48.40 | dataw0lf | thanks for making me visit wikipedia though, sjansen. |
| 14:49.18 | dataw0lf | Here I am trying to do some deep pthreads debugging and you have to distract me from such an enjoyable task. |
| 14:49.19 | *** join/#utah synic (n=synic@66.239.17.226.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 14:49.59 | sjansen | heh |
| 14:50.26 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@128.187.81.134) |
| 14:53.14 | maquis | RIAA regional officer Kenneth Rivera, who worked as an undercover agent on the Kim\u2019s case, identified the store\u2019s mix tapes and CDs as piratical, testifying in an affidavit that they \u201clisted unfamiliar company names, do not display the name of the owner of the copyright, have packaging inferior in quality when compared with legitimate discs,\u201d and because \u201cmany are recorded on CD-R media. Legitimate recordings released by RIAA memb |
| 14:53.36 | *** join/#utah phinux (n=phinux@iocane.cs.byu.edu) |
| 14:56.50 | *** join/#utah levi (n=levi@66.239.25.2.ptr.us.xo.net) |
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| 14:59.30 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 15:03.32 | maquis | i thinkthis is my new favorite quote: |
| 15:03.45 | maquis | If the RIAA is found guilty of fraud and extortion, I bet that SCO will sue them for infringement of a business methods patent. |
| 15:04.26 | sjansen | maquis: How much are you willing to bet? |
| 15:04.52 | sjansen | That's one wager I'd feel absolutely safe making. |
| 15:05.23 | maquis | sjansen: it's a good quote :) |
| 15:06.07 | maquis | in essence, the RIAA has started making the claim that any music not distributed through them is pirated |
| 15:06.14 | maquis | that's how they've started defining the word... |
| 15:06.21 | dataw0lf | I thought that's what they were inferring for a while now. |
| 15:06.23 | maquis | which is really disturbing and rather frightening |
| 15:06.30 | dataw0lf | and with DRM it seems like it's going to get even uglier. |
| 15:06.54 | maquis | ~drm |
| 15:06.57 | ibot | drm is, like, a cool new video card feature in the 2.4 kernel -- http://precisioninsight.com/dr/drm.html or the Direct Rendering Module, or called Direct Rendering Manager. "an acronym for "Digital Rights Management" ", or http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/drm.asp ... the best big black-caca from the ass of gates |
| 15:07.06 | maquis | probably not that drm... |
| 15:07.15 | dataw0lf | Digital Rights Management. |
| 15:07.18 | dataw0lf | read up about it. |
| 15:07.22 | sjansen | http://blogs.zdnet.com/Murphy/?p=419 |
| 15:07.48 | maquis | dataw0lf: how can they make that claim?? why haven't they been stopped yet? |
| 15:07.50 | dataw0lf | sjansen: I've read that, no reference to the huge Ubuntu boom, however. |
| 15:07.58 | dataw0lf | maquis: Um, because they have money. |
| 15:08.41 | maquis | dataw0lf: i'll admit to being naive... i just don't get how having money makes anything like that ok |
| 15:08.45 | maquis | it shouldn't et past |
| 15:09.35 | sjansen | maquis: two things make anything okay: money and weapons |
| 15:09.36 | dataw0lf | It gets past all the time. |
| 15:09.43 | dataw0lf | Unfortunately. |
| 15:10.11 | dataw0lf | It's 'subtle' things like this that Joe Schmoe of America doesn't notice, as his rights slowly slip away. |
| 15:10.25 | maquis | GRRRRRR |
| 15:10.59 | dataw0lf | That's why I own an AR-15. |
| 15:11.08 | dataw0lf | They can come pry my music out of my cold, dead fingers! |
| 15:11.09 | dataw0lf | :D |
| 15:11.32 | maquis | what's an AR-15? |
| 15:12.38 | dataw0lf | it's a 5.56mm air-cooled, magazine-fed autoloading centerfire rifle, similar to the M-4 |
| 15:12.50 | maquis | mmmmk....... |
| 15:13.02 | dataw0lf | the civilian version of what I had in Iraq. |
| 15:13.32 | dataw0lf | it's the greatest weapon ever. |
| 15:13.35 | dataw0lf | I <3 it. |
| 15:14.49 | *** join/#utah Bradipo (i=bradipo@xmission.xmission.com) |
| 15:15.01 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 15:20.39 | Jayce^ | maquis, think of the gun you normally think of with an army soldier.. it's that |
| 15:22.04 | neybar_work | only you don't get court martialled if it isn't cleaned... :) |
| 15:22.58 | dataw0lf | heh, never heard of anyone getting court martialled for having a dirty weapon. |
| 15:23.06 | dataw0lf | Article 15, maybe. |
| 15:24.03 | maquis | what are the laws about owning things like that? |
| 15:25.35 | dataw0lf | not really, the ban passed semi recently. |
| 15:25.47 | dataw0lf | 1994-2004 was a dark time for assault rifles. |
| 15:26.22 | Jayce^ | maquis, that's not a 'big' gun.. |
| 15:26.24 | sjansen | maquis: If you know a senator, you can own a mig. If you don't know a senator, you can own a cessna. I expect the situation is similar with guns. |
| 15:26.25 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf, amen.. |
| 15:26.33 | Jayce^ | such a lousy written ban at that |
| 15:27.02 | Jayce^ | ar-15 is perfectly legal, and now you can buy *new* 30 rnd clips again |
| 15:27.14 | Jayce^ | bushmaster coyote.... |
| 15:27.25 | maquis | ah... |
| 15:27.46 | neybar_work | maquis, you just have to be careful what you point them at... LOL |
| 15:27.58 | Jayce^ | like we mentioned, it's the *civilian* version, not totally the same. |
| 15:28.27 | dataw0lf | Jayce^: the coyote is really nice, I'm a huge Bushmaster fan. |
| 15:28.56 | Jayce^ | yeah, my friend just got one of them when the ban fell, excellent gun |
| 15:29.01 | Jayce^ | had a big back order last year :) |
| 15:29.12 | goozbach | anyone without an aversion to PHP here who wants to make some money? |
| 15:30.19 | goozbach | I can't wait till the civ version of the P-90 is out |
| 15:31.32 | dataw0lf | ugh, the P-90 is hard to get accustomed to, I'm not a huge fan. |
| 15:32.33 | sjansen | goozbach: So you won't consider a person that hates PHP but is willing to prostitute himself for money? |
| 15:34.00 | Jayce^ | so goozbach, saturday? |
| 15:34.07 | goozbach | Jayce^: yup |
| 15:34.18 | dataw0lf | maquis: All sorts of things. I haven't fired the P-90 much (only when on an exercise with Thai spec ops, actually) but it's high rate of fire and it's unique shape makes it hard for me to transition from a more traditional SMG like, say, the MP5/10 |
| 15:34.39 | maquis | ah... |
| 15:34.43 | maquis | ok... |
| 15:34.48 | maquis | brb... have to run up to class... |
| 15:40.04 | sjansen | there's a linux on ibm mainframe class next door |
| 15:40.49 | sjansen | yet again I find myself wondering, who in their right mind creats a 31 bit processor? |
| 15:42.21 | dataw0lf | excellent question. |
| 15:44.32 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@208-186-97-26.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 15:45.58 | graphyx | a 31 bit processor.. almost seems like an insult, like saying someone is a couple pennies short of a full buck to mean they are stupid. |
| 15:50.15 | Jayce^ | someone that does a 7-bit byte |
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| 15:56.31 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
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| 16:07.54 | sjansen | updatedb |
| 16:11.54 | *** join/#utah Maquis_ (n=Maquis@monsters.cs.byu.edu) |
| 16:12.05 | Maquis_ | gah |
| 16:12.18 | Maquis_ | i think i messed something up yesterday |
| 16:12.18 | Maquis_ | badly |
| 16:12.45 | Maquis_ | all those dns issues i was having yesterday jumped up and bit me again |
| 16:18.34 | *** join/#utah Maquis__ (n=Maquis@monsters.cs.byu.edu) |
| 16:19.32 | tensai | you? mess something up? no, way. I don't believe it. |
| 16:19.44 | Maquis__ | tensai: yeah... i know |
| 16:20.30 | Maquis__ | nothing's quite working |
| 16:20.31 | Maquis__ | tensai: i can't get it to resolve zmonkey... |
| 16:20.53 | Maquis__ | at least it hasn't yet |
| 16:21.28 | Maquis__ | anyone know how i can resolve this? |
| 16:21.36 | tensai | ~nslookup joanna.zmonkey.org |
| 16:22.17 | tensai | I missed the problems yesterday. what's wrong? |
| 16:22.17 | Maquis__ | hmmmm |
| 16:22.18 | Maquis__ | maybe i'm wrong about what the problem is |
| 16:22.22 | Maquis__ | because it's still not going there |
| 16:22.41 | Maquis__ | tensai: simple version: for some reason, resolv.conf was empty |
| 16:22.48 | Maquis__ | so, i added a nameserver, and things became happier |
| 16:23.04 | Maquis__ | then, i got on-campus, where you can't get to *anything* until you authenticate with their website |
| 16:23.21 | Maquis__ | unfortunately, that included the nameserver i was using |
| 16:23.30 | Maquis__ | so, i couldn't get to a nameserver because i hadn't authenticated |
| 16:23.44 | Maquis__ | and i couldn't authenticate because i needed a nameserver to get to the authentication page |
| 16:24.11 | Maquis__ | so, i got some guys to give me the ip addresses for the byu nameserver and for the authentication page |
| 16:24.13 | Maquis__ | but everything's still insanely slow, and a lot of things just won't come up at all |
| 16:24.45 | Maquis__ | (and i still can't ssh to zmonkey, even using the ip address... it's just ignoring me entirely) |
| 16:25.24 | Maquis__ | [osiris erins] ssh maquis@199.104.112.185 |
| 16:25.25 | Maquis__ | ssh: connect to host 199.104.112.185 port 22: Connection timed out |
| 16:25.42 | tensai | I started a tcpdump. try again. |
| 16:26.17 | Maquis__ | are you seeing anything? |
| 16:26.21 | tensai | nope |
| 16:26.31 | Maquis__ | hmmm |
| 16:26.44 | tensai | Maquis__: promise me one thing. never work for a nuclear power plant. |
| 16:26.56 | tensai | the world just doesn't need that |
| 16:27.22 | Maquis__ | tensai: what? you don't need someone cursed by murphy's law working with nuclear power plants??? |
| 16:27.31 | Maquis__ | why ever not? |
| 16:27.41 | Maquis__ | the funny thing is... |
| 16:27.46 | Maquis__ | gmail works fine, aim works fine.... |
| 16:28.11 | Maquis__ | jabber finally started working |
| 16:28.12 | Maquis__ | but some things still just aren't working |
| 16:28.12 | tensai | can you ping joanna? it should respond |
| 16:28.43 | Maquis__ | yup |
| 16:28.49 | tensai | maybe some of your connections are still stuck in the "not authenticated" table |
| 16:28.53 | *** join/#utah fugalh (i=fugalh@xmission.xmission.com) |
| 16:29.01 | Maquis__ | i dunno |
| 16:29.03 | tensai | maybe hans broke it |
| 16:29.35 | Maquis__ | i can't resolve it, since i can't get an authentication page until i become unauthenticated again |
| 16:29.42 | hans | what'd I break? |
| 16:29.52 | hans | and why can't I get to my server? |
| 16:30.02 | hans | elg: why are you still here but I can't ssh in? |
| 16:30.12 | Maquis__ | hans: you broke my computer |
| 16:30.20 | hans | cool |
| 16:30.46 | Maquis__ | hans: you might notice that maquis is still here..... |
| 16:31.13 | *** mode/#utah [+o hans] by ChanServ |
| 16:31.22 | *** kick/#utah [elg!i=fugalh@xmission.xmission.com] by hans (Let's see you come back) |
| 16:32.07 | hans | sigh. I guess irssi won't try to rejoin the channel |
| 16:34.24 | Maquis__ | hans: depends... |
| 16:35.14 | tensai | Maquis__: if you can ping joanna I can't see why you can't get to ssh. Unless you're connecting from China I don't see you listed in the firewall. |
| 16:35.45 | tensai | hans: perhaps elg just hadn't timed out yet. was vontrapp on falcon too? |
| 16:35.46 | Maquis__ | tensai: murphy |
| 16:35.51 | Maquis__ | hey... it works now |
| 16:36.00 | hans | tensai: probably. vontrapp is too |
| 16:36.07 | maquis | yay! |
| 16:36.16 | maquis | go figure... things are crazy |
| 16:36.44 | tensai | where "things" is defined as "maquis" |
| 16:36.59 | maquis | hey |
| 16:46.15 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 16:52.53 | levi | Gah, crazy meeting morning. |
| 17:01.16 | goozbach | ~lart missing your iptables reset at job |
| 17:08.34 | *** join/#utah jsmith (n=Administ@pip.dal.omniture.com) |
| 17:09.15 | graphyx | ~welcome jsmith |
| 17:09.17 | ibot | [all in unison] Hi, jsmith! |
| 17:09.23 | jsmith | graphyx, Thanks... |
| 17:09.44 | graphyx | You're welcome |
| 17:10.18 | graphyx | racing servers? which one won? |
| 17:10.22 | graphyx | j/k. |
| 17:12.52 | jsmith | No, stacking and racking... |
| 17:15.19 | goozbach | ~bless RHN |
| 17:15.23 | ibot | O $DEITY, bless our child RHN, who is about to do something stupid and needs all the help you can give. Amen. |
| 17:15.40 | goozbach | no, not like that |
| 17:15.47 | goozbach | ~praise RHN |
| 17:15.48 | ibot | All hail RHN! |
| 17:15.54 | goozbach | there. |
| 17:16.25 | goozbach | I fouled up and locked myself out with an iptables rule |
| 17:16.41 | jsmith | goozbach: Way to go :-) |
| 17:16.46 | goozbach | but luckily my saved iptables rules will let me back in |
| 17:17.00 | goozbach | so I logged into RHN posthaste |
| 17:17.08 | goozbach | and scheduled a system reboot |
| 17:17.10 | goozbach | :) |
| 17:17.27 | jsmith | Nice. |
| 17:17.49 | mheath_ | jsmith: I'm toying with going to the U, instead; I'm considering doing NROTC. |
| 17:17.51 | goozbach | very |
| 17:18.23 | jsmith | mheath_: OK... you know there are ROTC programs at USU, right? |
| 17:18.31 | mheath_ | jsmith: *NROTC* |
| 17:18.37 | mheath_ | not *AROTC* or *AFROTC* |
| 17:18.54 | mheath_ | I'm a sailor :) |
| 17:19.07 | jsmith | Ah... I thought there was a navy one at USU too. |
| 17:19.13 | mheath | jsmith: Nope. |
| 17:19.22 | jsmith | Bummer |
| 17:19.23 | mheath | Only NROTC program in Utah is at UoU |
| 17:19.38 | mheath | (You can also sign up for NROTC if you go to Weber or Westminster, but you just take the classes up at UoU) |
| 17:19.49 | mheath | jsmith: I can take some off your hands ;) |
| 17:20.11 | jsmith | mheath: You'd have to pry them out of my dead cold hands |
| 17:22.59 | graphyx | mheath: good choice. |
| 17:24.20 | roscivs | ok, trivial question time |
| 17:24.40 | roscivs | i have two numbers, x and y, and I want to see if they're within 4 of each other, mod 12 |
| 17:24.56 | roscivs | so 11 and 1 would be, |
| 17:25.06 | roscivs | but 4 and 9 wouldn't be |
| 17:30.09 | roscivs | you wouldn't think this would be a very difficult problem |
| 17:30.16 | roscivs | but my brain unfortunately is fried |
| 17:31.43 | sjansen | Having any navy in Utah makes only a little more sense than stationing navy in Nevada. |
| 17:32.14 | Jayce^ | sjansen, how about Idaho? |
| 17:32.23 | Jayce^ | (trick question on that one) |
| 17:34.00 | sjansen | roscivs: could you restate the problem? |(11 - 1) % 12| or |(11 % 12) - (1 % 12)| |
| 17:34.03 | sjansen | ? |
| 17:34.58 | sjansen | mheath: CVS?! Why in this day and age would you use CVS? At least use SVN. Better yet, use Bazaar. |
| 17:35.45 | Jayce^ | did anybody else know that they actually transported a full attack sub up to a lake in northern idaho? |
| 17:35.53 | sjansen | graphyx: Don't tell me your one of those crack smoking gentoo users. |
| 17:35.54 | roscivs | hmmmm... not sure what you're saying ... in essence I'm saying, what's the smallest integer you can add or subtract to 11 to get 1 (in mod 12 arithmetic) |
| 17:36.14 | roscivs | so in the case of 11, you can add 2 to get 1 (in mod 12) |
| 17:36.52 | roscivs | if I have the numbers 4 and 9, the smallest number I can add or subtract to 4 to get 9 is 5. |
| 17:37.33 | roscivs | if I had, say, 2 and 9, I could subtract 5 (i think, like I said, my brain is fuzzy) to get 9. |
| 17:37.50 | sjansen | okay, z such that x = ( y + z) % 12 |
| 17:37.53 | levi | Add 4 to the smaller one, if it is then >= the larger one, the result is true. Otherwise, add 4 to the larger and mod 12 it. If it's >= the smaller one, the result is true. |
| 17:38.16 | roscivs | thanks levi, I think that's exactly what I want :-) |
| 17:38.30 | roscivs | My brain was coming up with convoluted ways of doing that. |
| 17:38.52 | levi | You can short-circuit it by checking if the larger one would wrap before adding and mod 12ing it. |
| 17:39.02 | Tene | I got a check in the mail today from BYU. |
| 17:39.05 | roscivs | heheh, thanks sjansen :-) |
| 17:39.10 | Tene | $1,243.15 for 'tuition reimbursement' |
| 17:39.19 | Tene | but the government paid fro my tuition |
| 17:39.22 | Tene | for, even |
| 17:39.25 | levi | Heh. |
| 17:39.26 | sjansen | ~steal Tene's tuition reimbursement |
| 17:39.28 | ibot | ACTION grabs Tene's tuition reimbursement and gives it to sjansen |
| 17:39.44 | roscivs | Tene: It's probably the leftover government money. |
| 17:39.57 | Tene | it's being reimbursed because I left for medical reasons |
| 17:40.06 | roscivs | Ah, I see. |
| 17:40.14 | roscivs | I wonder what the government would have to say about that? Hm. |
| 17:40.18 | sjansen | Tene: You have two options. 1) Take the money and skip the country. 2) Don't spend the money until you talk to someone at BYU. |
| 17:40.23 | Tene | yeah |
| 17:40.27 | levi | Uncle Sam will probably want it back. |
| 17:40.39 | Tene | that's not enough money to want to skip the country with. |
| 17:40.43 | roscivs | Or spend the money on something cool, call BYU, find out the government wants it back, and then ... well ... |
| 17:40.52 | roscivs | 3. ??? 4. Profit!!! |
| 17:41.01 | Tene | if I do keep it, it's going in savings for when I go back to school. |
| 17:41.14 | levi | Hey, profit is good! Do that one! |
| 17:41.20 | Tene | hehe |
| 17:41.31 | Bradipo | Tene: You could always take out #utah on lunch. |
| 17:41.43 | Tene | heh |
| 17:41.45 | Bradipo | And say you were just redistributing the tax funds to their owners. |
| 17:42.39 | roscivs | I'm all about wealth distribution. |
| 17:42.53 | roscivs | As long as the wealth is being distributed *to* me, from somebody else. |
| 17:43.07 | Bradipo | roscivs: Well, that's all Social Security is. |
| 17:43.07 | levi | Yeah, bring on the wealth! |
| 17:43.43 | roscivs | Bradipo: unfortunately they take money out of *my* paycheck to pay for it! |
| 17:43.48 | roscivs | That's the only part of SS I don't like. |
| 17:43.49 | roscivs | ;-) |
| 17:44.35 | sjansen | Tene: If you take just me out to lunch instead of everyone on #utah, I'll let you keep half the refund. |
| 17:45.21 | Tene | Just called. Apparently I get to keep it because I completed more than some % of the semester. |
| 17:46.30 | sjansen | What?! So you pretend to go to school for a few days, then the government give you money? Time to switch careers! |
| 17:46.52 | levi | Sweet. |
| 17:47.28 | levi | The only trick is being able to reliably get caught up in medical reasons for leaving while avoiding fraud charges. |
| 17:48.25 | Jayce^ | sjansen, for a long time, we thought you were |
| 17:49.03 | sjansen | ~thwap Jayce^ |
| 17:49.05 | ibot | ACTION bends Jayce^ over, and grins happily |
| 17:49.30 | roscivs | Dang it all. This is turning out to be more complex than I thought. |
| 17:49.31 | sjansen | hmmmmmmmmmmmm.... not exactly my version of the verb |
| 17:49.52 | roscivs | Turns out the modular stuff was only part of the problem. |
| 17:50.06 | roscivs | I'm not even sure what the rest of the problem is, just that I don't understand it :-) |
| 17:50.21 | sjansen | ~thwap Jayce^ |
| 17:50.22 | ibot | ACTION thwaps Jayce^ on the nose with a 2 by 4 |
| 17:50.46 | levi | roscivs: Understanding the problem is often the hardest part. |
| 17:51.11 | roscivs | Yeah, heh. Once you understand the problem well enough to describe it to someone else, it's usually mostly solved. |
| 17:51.24 | sjansen | Now you know, and knowing is half the battle. |
| 17:51.25 | levi | Exactly. :) |
| 17:51.47 | levi | Which is why I advocate a heavy dose of theory in CS education. |
| 17:51.47 | roscivs | The exceptions are usually quite fascinating, however ... there are some problems that are ridiculously easy to describe, but nearly impossible to solve. |
| 17:52.14 | roscivs | (Fermat's last theorem is one of my favorite examples of this.) |
| 17:52.14 | sjansen | So remember boys and girls, when you get a bloody nose tip back your head and drink you own blood. |
| 17:53.10 | sjansen | Anyone else remember the old GI Joe "service announcements"? |
| 17:53.37 | levi | roscivs: Knowing the difficulty of the task despite the simple description is key to effectively tackling it, even if it is really hard. Of course, you discover that it's hard pretty quickly, usually, even if you don't recognize it from the problem description. |
| 17:53.42 | roscivs | I don't remember that one in particular ... |
| 17:54.00 | dataw0lf | sjansen: hell yes. I have several in home media collection. |
| 17:54.02 | dataw0lf | +my |
| 18:08.40 | *** join/#utah hans (n=fugalh@hfugal.NMSU.Edu) |
| 18:17.18 | *** join/#utah ibot_ (i=ibot@rikers.org) |
| 18:17.18 | *** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, uphpu.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com. See planetutah.adelantellc.com for aggregate feeds |
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| 18:21.40 | *** join/#utah hans (n=fugalh@hfugal.NMSU.Edu) |
| 18:23.43 | jebar | hans need some help |
| 18:24.07 | *** part/#utah jebar (n=jebarlow@2.wencor.com) |
| 18:25.30 | hans | not that badly I guess |
| 18:25.33 | *** join/#utah jebar (n=jebarlow@2.wencor.com) |
| 18:25.48 | *** join/#utah bytheway (n=bbythewa@gibraltar.deseretbook.net) |
| 18:38.11 | *** join/#utah bytheway (n=bbythewa@gibraltar.deseretbook.net) |
| 18:42.17 | *** join/#utah Tene (n=tene@poipu/supporter/slacker/tene) |
| 18:52.52 | *** join/#utah JoshH (i=josh@josh.xmission.com) |
| 18:56.46 | goozbach | GO JOE!!! |
| 18:57.28 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (n=von@67.107.200.94.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 18:57.50 | vontrapp | hans: hey what's up? |
| 18:58.06 | vontrapp | or down, as the case may be |
| 18:58.20 | hans | good question |
| 18:58.24 | hans | I'll find out in about an hour |
| 18:58.38 | hans | erin left her cell phone off so I can't call and find out |
| 18:58.41 | goozbach | LUNCH! |
| 19:04.36 | mheath | graphyx: its not a good choice |
| 19:04.46 | mheath | I hate gentoo and feel evil for using it, to be honest =P |
| 19:05.16 | mheath | The only reason I'm using it, is because I'm running several cutting edge programs at the moment, stuff that I have to keep updated |
| 19:05.25 | mheath | and its starting to become a pain to do so |
| 19:06.02 | mheath | sjansen: I use CVS because I don't need anything complex, and more people have/use/are familiar wtih CVS than any other stuff |
| 19:06.14 | *** join/#utah hans (n=fugalh@dhcp29.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 19:06.43 | mheath | sjansen: plus, the IDE that I have to use for this particular project (Eclipse) integrates nicely with CVS) |
| 19:06.58 | vontrapp | wow, jabber shows users of a server as unavailable when said server is down |
| 19:07.24 | Tene | Interesting. |
| 19:07.39 | vontrapp | too late |
| 19:07.40 | hans | Tene: too late |
| 19:07.41 | vontrapp | :-p |
| 19:07.53 | Tene | Curses, foiled again! |
| 19:08.10 | mheath | Gentoo is bootstrapping |
| 19:08.15 | mheath | I've had bad luck with Gentoo before |
| 19:09.06 | mheath | I tend to have a long and complex USE variable, which the bootstrap process often dislikes |
| 19:09.23 | mheath | Then again, that was over a year ago that I last tried, so...it might work :) |
| 19:11.37 | Tene | and... why do you do that? |
| 19:11.48 | Tene | instead of setting per-package USE variables when you need them? |
| 19:12.24 | vontrapp | two words, ricer |
| 19:12.38 | hans | so is ~300 ssh users with 1 process each gonna be a problem CPU-wise? |
| 19:12.45 | hans | compared with telnet |
| 19:13.06 | *** join/#utah SpecialZ (n=Sco--@128.187.237.96) |
| 19:13.12 | hans | I should say one connection each |
| 19:13.20 | hans | the processes they run is another thing entirely. :) |
| 19:13.47 | Tene | try it and find out |
| 19:13.58 | hans | ~burn tene |
| 19:13.59 | ibot | ibot pours gasoline all over tene, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze |
| 19:14.16 | mheath | Tene: because I don't want the bootstrap process to take me days, as I customize the USE variable for every one of the packages? |
| 19:15.16 | mheath | I customize it for all the software after that. It takes too much time and there is potentially too many problems if I do it for a bootstrap. |
| 19:15.50 | SpecialZ | ~lart maquis |
| 19:16.15 | hans | hmm. what does it mean for maquis to have a new boot loader? what if she thinks she's cardassian? |
| 19:16.38 | starfleet | ~duel maquis |
| 19:17.08 | mheath | She runs Solaris now. |
| 19:17.12 | mheath | Network-booted solaris. |
| 19:17.20 | vontrapp | maquis is a dual-boot maquis/gem-haddar |
| 19:17.53 | Tene | mheath: what sort of USE variables do you use? |
| 19:18.33 | *** join/#utah bzob_l (n=bzob_l@office-nat.singleedge.com) |
| 19:18.50 | mheath | Tene: The overall idea of my present one is a heavily customized, feature-rich desktop system |
| 19:19.34 | Tene | argh, why does PHP have to suck so much? |
| 19:20.05 | goozbach | guess who's goung to spain next month... |
| 19:20.25 | mheath | goozbach: returning spaniards? ;) |
| 19:20.38 | vontrapp | um, zorro |
| 19:21.19 | goozbach | goozbach vs spain. Nov7 |
| 19:21.56 | mheath | See it on Paper View |
| 19:21.56 | mheath | Order Now. |
| 19:22.00 | mheath | *Pay per |
| 19:22.08 | mheath | Why have I been doing that lately? |
| 19:22.35 | mheath | I'm walking demonstration of "Hooked on Phonics"'s worst nightmare. I've been spelling things in odd, phonetic ways lately |
| 19:22.50 | mheath | and not even proper ponetics. Utahn-lazy-pronounciation phonetics |
| 19:23.21 | mheath | Its not Pay-Per-View, its paper view. It's not Whipped Cream, it's whipcream. |
| 19:23.46 | vontrapp | no, that's gosen sane |
| 19:23.55 | starfleet | where would you rather pronounce? Everybody's lazy in different ways |
| 19:24.30 | RyanE | vontrapp: since when is 'ricer' two words, anyway? |
| 19:25.08 | starfleet | i love the way the british talk, until they go and say something stupid like Utahr |
| 19:25.11 | RyanE | now, two words: 'gentoo ricer' is pretty appropriate. |
| 19:25.17 | goozbach | mheath: you arent true utahan unless you pronounce milk "malk" |
| 19:25.33 | vontrapp | i thought it was melk |
| 19:25.52 | vontrapp | and crick |
| 19:26.12 | mheath | I don't think someone from Utah could survive at a British university |
| 19:26.13 | goozbach | vontrap is from the northern part of the state aparently |
| 19:26.16 | mheath | The humiliation..... |
| 19:26.17 | mheath | :) |
| 19:27.02 | vontrapp | them got a melk cow by thar crick |
| 19:27.41 | RyanE | I was barn in the born down by that thar crick. |
| 19:28.25 | vontrapp | cli-n, where - is a glottal stop |
| 19:28.28 | *** join/#utah emcnabb_ (n=emcnabb@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 19:29.00 | vontrapp | i must admit, i'va always done the nt thing that way, something my parents carried over to us i guess |
| 19:30.18 | mheath | hmmm |
| 19:30.35 | mheath | where should I go to lunch? |
| 19:30.50 | vontrapp | home, nothing like good home cookin |
| 19:31.00 | goozbach | el sotano |
| 19:31.03 | mheath | I was feeling a bit sick earlier (I missed school today) but feeling better... |
| 19:31.12 | mheath | so I don't want anything thats TOO rough on my stomach |
| 19:31.28 | goozbach | el sotano is out then |
| 19:31.48 | goozbach | plus it's a long flight to SF |
| 19:32.03 | mheath | I'm thinking about Subway...hrmmm. |
| 19:32.47 | mheath | Today is payday, though, so I'm going to treat myself a bit |
| 19:32.49 | mheath | pity I'm so sick |
| 19:33.40 | vontrapp | cold stone |
| 19:33.56 | vontrapp | ice cream is always nice to your stomach |
| 19:42.25 | mheath | really? |
| 19:42.28 | mheath | Didn't know that. |
| 19:42.57 | mheath | I didn't think milk was particularly good on it, so I assumed ice cream wouldn't be too easy on it either |
| 19:43.57 | vontrapp | how do you set up a deny all/allow <list> type setup for ssh as per what hosts can connect with ssh? |
| 19:44.34 | JoshH | subway isnt rough on your stomach? |
| 19:44.35 | JoshH | it kills me |
| 19:45.51 | mheath | vontrapp: iptables rules, maybe, restricting incoming traffic on that port from those hosts? Or hosts.deny/hosts.allow.......or OpenSSH probably has something built in. |
| 19:48.24 | Tene | vontrapp: hosts.deny/hosts.allow |
| 19:48.28 | Tene | ... curses, foiled again |
| 19:49.00 | mheath | I would have simply suggested hosts.deny/hosts.allow, but the way he worded that, it sounded like he wanted to JUST restrict them from accessing SSH, not from other things. |
| 19:49.28 | Tene | hmm |
| 19:50.04 | goozbach | you can specifiy ssh in hosts.allow/hosts.deny |
| 19:50.10 | goozbach | like this |
| 19:50.25 | goozbach | sshd: clientlist |
| 19:50.40 | *** join/#utah elg (i=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 19:50.59 | goozbach | where clientlist is an ip network/netmask or hostname/domainname |
| 19:51.01 | *** join/#utah vontrapp_ (i=fuglv@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 19:51.12 | mheath | Would a university with a decent CS program offer, for example, a class in Linux server configuration and administration? |
| 19:53.35 | *** part/#utah lars-ut-away (n=me@67.137.31.58) |
| 19:54.34 | maquis | mheath: doubtful... |
| 19:54.35 | maquis | at least not in the cs dept |
| 19:54.39 | sjansen | mheath: probably not |
| 19:54.51 | sjansen | mheath: that's something you're more likely to get from a trade school |
| 19:54.55 | maquis | i think byu has that in the IT dept, but certainly not in the cs dept |
| 19:55.02 | vontrapp | that will only block ssh, right? |
| 19:55.12 | sjansen | mheath: you might get it as part of an MIS degree, but it won't be very high quality |
| 19:56.12 | sjansen | mheath: basically, for practical "applied" stuff like that trade school, training companies, and self-guided exploration are your best options (not necessarily in that order) |
| 19:56.37 | mheath | I'm familiar with LInux systems, but it would be nice if something would dive into the finer points of some things, as well as some neat tips and tricks |
| 19:56.43 | sjansen | mheath: oh, and the military, they also teach useful real-world stuff |
| 19:56.47 | dataw0lf | Agreed, although most universities have a Unix Fundamentals course, but that's totally different from what you implied mheath. |
| 19:56.53 | maquis | or just working.... |
| 19:57.00 | dataw0lf | sjansen: Regarding Linux? Not likely. |
| 19:57.09 | mheath | The military uses Linux |
| 19:57.15 | mheath | Particularly the US Navy |
| 19:57.25 | dataw0lf | You won't be working with it as an enlisted soldier. |
| 19:57.30 | sjansen | mheath: I'm going to have to recognized dataw0lf's greater experience here again. |
| 19:57.31 | dataw0lf | or seaman. |
| 19:57.39 | dataw0lf | or marine |
| 19:57.41 | dataw0lf | or airman |
| 19:57.43 | dataw0lf | or whatever. |
| 19:58.14 | dataw0lf | sjansen: I certainly agree they teach a great deal about real world applications. |
| 19:58.24 | dataw0lf | But they don't offer much in the way of Linux education. :\ |
| 19:58.58 | mheath | dataw0lf: I'm going to college and doing Navy ROTC while I'll major in CS :) |
| 19:59.07 | mheath | I will indeed be working with such systems |
| 19:59.26 | sjansen | CS != system administration |
| 19:59.51 | dataw0lf | sjansen: Amen. |
| 20:00.10 | mheath | sjansen: who said anything about system administration? O.o |
| 20:00.20 | dataw0lf | you did |
| 20:00.21 | mheath | (Other than my earlier, unrelated question about system administration classes) |
| 20:00.21 | dataw0lf | mheath Would a university with a decent CS program offer, for example, a class in Linux server configuration and administration? |
| 20:00.42 | dataw0lf | You're not going to learn really anything practical in regards to system administration in college. |
| 20:00.55 | dataw0lf | in regards to an accredited CS degree, anyways. |
| 20:00.59 | sjansen | mheath: you did "[...] a class in Linux server configuration and administration?" |
| 20:01.37 | mheath | sjansen, dataw0lf: That was unrelated O.o |
| 20:02.01 | sjansen | It's also worth noting that CS != programming. |
| 20:02.19 | levi | sjansen: Well, that depends on your definitions. |
| 20:02.32 | sjansen | levi: true |
| 20:03.00 | sjansen | but I expect the vast majority of employed programmers are code grunts |
| 20:03.02 | levi | A safer statement, I think, would be CS != Software Engineering |
| 20:03.05 | dataw0lf | sjansen: agreed |
| 20:03.37 | levi | But I don't think mheath wants to be a typical 'software engineer' anyway. |
| 20:03.43 | dataw0lf | However, I'd be more inclined to believe someone learns more about programming in a CS major over system administration. |
| 20:03.50 | levi | (says the guy with 'software engineer' on his business card) |
| 20:04.10 | levi | sjansen: Dijkstra would disagree most vehemently with you. :) |
| 20:04.34 | levi | He said something to the effect that 'Software engineering is programming for those who can't' |
| 20:04.35 | sjansen | in an ideal world he'd be right |
| 20:04.51 | mheath | To be honest, I'm majoring in CS to gain some knowledge and to gain some credibility for when I start a computer-related company. |
| 20:05.08 | sjansen | Yup. It's all about the piece of paper. |
| 20:07.02 | mheath | They really don't have to make these so difficult to open, you know.. |
| 20:07.15 | maquis | ~lart sjansen |
| 20:07.41 | maquis | ~lart religion tests |
| 20:08.11 | mheath | I really don't care about what kind of salary I end up with |
| 20:08.16 | mheath | I just want to enjoy the job :) |
| 20:08.20 | *** join/#utah hans (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 20:08.33 | dataw0lf | I love my job. And my consulting. |
| 20:08.43 | dataw0lf | Didn't need a degree to do so. |
| 20:08.51 | mheath | HOW DO YOU OPEN THIS RUDDY PLASTIC PACKAGING?! |
| 20:08.59 | elg | use your assets |
| 20:09.00 | levi | mheath: With a knife, perhaps? |
| 20:09.18 | levi | Or keys. Keys are good at opening packages. |
| 20:09.30 | dataw0lf | teeth! |
| 20:09.34 | mheath | levi: keys I've tried |
| 20:09.36 | mheath | They've failed |
| 20:09.51 | roscivs | Anyone use any sort of Linux "Powerpoint"ish (slideshow) type things, preferably with HTML output? |
| 20:09.52 | levi | Well, knife or scissors then. |
| 20:10.12 | mheath | roscivs: Open Office .Org |
| 20:10.14 | mheath | :) |
| 20:10.39 | roscivs | (a) Does it output html and (b) have you used it and can say it Doesn't Suck[tm]? |
| 20:10.53 | roscivs | (If so, I'm all for it :-) |
| 20:10.54 | levi | roscivs: I dunno how he builds them, but Sam Ruby has some html-based slideshow things. |
| 20:10.57 | mheath | roscivs: B, yes, a...can't confirm, but I'm willing to bet it does |
| 20:11.13 | roscivs | mheath: I'll check it out and let you know wrt a :-) |
| 20:11.26 | roscivs | what's the presenter part called? |
| 20:11.30 | dataw0lf | roscivs: OO.o is pretty sweetastic |
| 20:11.33 | roscivs | I have oowriter and oocalc ... |
| 20:11.37 | mheath | roscivs: get the beta |
| 20:11.43 | roscivs | (fc4 split up all the packages for some weird reason) |
| 20:11.44 | dataw0lf | roscivs: Impress |
| 20:12.06 | mheath | Theres some HUGE improvements to Impress (The slideshow maker) int he beta compared to the current stable |
| 20:12.15 | elg | impress is pretty cool, as far as that kind of thing goes |
| 20:12.34 | elg | if you're into latex, you can make html slides using latex, iirc |
| 20:12.45 | roscivs | mheath: I'll see what version is in my repositories ... |
| 20:13.17 | roscivs | 1.9.125-1.1.0, apparently |
| 20:13.27 | mheath | roscivs: get the 2.0-RC |
| 20:13.28 | dataw0lf | elg: yeah. |
| 20:13.35 | mheath | Off the OpenOffice.org site or a mirror :) |
| 20:13.45 | mheath | roscivs: I had some stability problems with the older Impress 2.0 betas |
| 20:14.36 | mheath | ~lart the moron at UoU who decided to make their printible applications several pages of solid color |
| 20:15.17 | roscivs | mheath: are there any RPMs of the RC around? |
| 20:16.01 | mheath | roscivs: I believe RPM is their preferred method of distribution for it. |
| 20:16.04 | vontrapp | ~spell incedent |
| 20:16.08 | mheath | incident. |
| 20:16.21 | mheath | ibot_: you're too quick. |
| 20:16.27 | roscivs | mheath: It's just tarballs on their site, afaict. |
| 20:16.37 | mheath | roscivs: Really? O.o |
| 20:16.43 | roscivs | I wonder how old 1.9 is? |
| 20:17.06 | mheath | Last time I went to install on Linux (granted, this was back int he 1.9/2.0Beta days, not the new 2.0RC) I remember being mad because I couldn't find anything other than RPMs |
| 20:17.18 | roscivs | hehe, that's amusing |
| 20:17.30 | mheath | roscivs: oh! |
| 20:17.41 | mheath | roscivs: I think the tarballs full of several split RPMs |
| 20:18.16 | mheath | Yeah |
| 20:18.23 | roscivs | that's strange, why would they hide such a fact? |
| 20:18.32 | mheath | roscivs: they...Don't. |
| 20:18.44 | roscivs | That'd be really annoying to be on some other distro, untar 100MB of files and find nothing but ... RPMs... |
| 20:18.51 | mheath | roscivs: they use .tar.gz as a container for multiple RPMs. |
| 20:18.55 | mheath | They're not hiding anything |
| 20:19.04 | mheath | roscivs: indeed. |
| 20:19.08 | roscivs | what I mean is, why don't they say that anywhere on the download site |
| 20:19.10 | mheath | Thats exactly what happened to me ;) |
| 20:19.30 | roscivs | If I were running debian or some other such wicked distro, there'd be nothing to hint that this tarball contains only RPMs. |
| 20:19.32 | mheath | roscivs: Thats irritating. If you look at any of the documentation, though, it tells you right off that it's RPM |
| 20:19.34 | roscivs | (at least so far as I can see) |
| 20:19.42 | mheath | rpm2tgz :) |
| 20:19.48 | roscivs | heh |
| 20:20.40 | roscivs | k, well 1.9 is installed, 2.0 is downloading |
| 20:21.16 | mheath | Compiling GCC :) |
| 20:21.45 | RyanE | so what's the consensus of the group: would you let your insurance company monitor your driving for 6 months, if it didn't affect your rates? |
| 20:22.00 | RyanE | for $50? |
| 20:22.02 | Tene | didn't affect at all? |
| 20:22.05 | roscivs | what does "monitor" mean, exactly? |
| 20:22.06 | Tene | no incentive |
| 20:22.11 | roscivs | like, stick something in your car? |
| 20:22.12 | Tene | $50? |
| 20:22.13 | Tene | no |
| 20:22.17 | roscivs | "hidden camera" |
| 20:22.18 | roscivs | ? |
| 20:22.25 | RyanE | plug in a device into your car's OBDII port |
| 20:22.35 | RyanE | which records time of trip, speed, etc. |
| 20:22.40 | RyanE | then you mail it back. |
| 20:22.51 | levi | I guess that works if you've got a newfangled car with OBDII. ;) |
| 20:22.54 | roscivs | I wouldn't do it for the $50. |
| 20:23.06 | roscivs | If I thought it would Help Humanity or some such thing I might do it, |
| 20:23.21 | roscivs | but given that it's an insurance company doing it, that doesn't seem very likely. |
| 20:23.39 | elg | I might do it for an iRiver |
| 20:23.49 | elg | since we hardly drive our car |
| 20:23.58 | RyanE | they state that they're doing it as a research study, and tell you what they monitor. |
| 20:24.00 | elg | but not if I drove it a lot |
| 20:25.04 | vontrapp | how do they know what the speed limit is they record you driving 35/50/65? |
| 20:25.25 | RyanE | they don't know what the speed limit is in the location you're driving, unless it has GPS in it, which I highly doubt. |
| 20:25.44 | RyanE | I think they're more interested in what your top speed is, how you apply braking, how long your trips in the car are. |
| 20:25.48 | levi | They probably don't. But if you're doing 80, you've broken the speed limit. :) |
| 20:25.51 | RyanE | i.e. do they make lots of short trips, etc. |
| 20:25.54 | elg | if they have gps, can we figure out how to cannibalize it? |
| 20:26.23 | RyanE | I've thought about doing it, only to see and touch the hardware, to see if there are any obvious data ports on the thing. :) |
| 20:27.09 | levi | Well, the OBD2 port would be pretty obvious. :) |
| 20:27.26 | RyanE | duh |
| 20:27.34 | roscivs | hehe, that would be funny, plug it up to your computer instead of your car and send all sorts of really funky OBD2 data |
| 20:27.45 | RyanE | I mean 'something I can slurp the data *off* the thing', not onto it. |
| 20:27.46 | Tene | feed in false data claiming that you exceeded 600 mph. |
| 20:28.05 | RyanE | or zero it out except for the last week, when you drive really carefully. |
| 20:28.28 | roscivs | all your trips are five minutes long and consist of going 1 mph for thirty seconds, then 500 mph for thirty seconds, 1mph etc. |
| 20:28.39 | RyanE | of course, they've thought of some of these things. It gets power from the OBDII port, and logs if it's been unplugged / powered down |
| 20:29.15 | levi | Encode 'Insurance companies suck!' by driving the speed representing the ascii value of the characters. |
| 20:29.29 | roscivs | well, google says Impress can export to html, but I can't figure out how. (yet.) heh. |
| 20:29.54 | elg | so the answer is, if you drive in such a way that lowers insurance rates generally by participating in this research study, do it. for humanity's sake |
| 20:30.03 | RyanE | levi: pretty sure they wouldn't notice that. |
| 20:30.17 | RyanE | assuming my wife is driving most of the time, that's probably the case. :) |
| 20:30.19 | elg | drive around a roundabout for roughly 1 hour each day |
| 20:30.22 | elg | while listening to an audio book |
| 20:30.39 | levi | RyanE: They wouldn't notice it, but it would be a cool hack. |
| 20:30.45 | vontrapp | first you have to drive a bunch of prime number speeds to get thier attention, then try to communicate that they suck |
| 20:30.59 | RyanE | elg: even though there's a roundabout close by, who has that kind of time? :) |
| 20:31.15 | roscivs | vontrapp: lol |
| 20:31.16 | RyanE | vontrapp: now THAT's funny. |
| 20:31.24 | vontrapp | anyone who has time for an hour of reading |
| 20:31.37 | vontrapp | :) |
| 20:31.44 | levi | RyanE: Once you've hacked it, you only have to do a few revolutions. Then you can cut and paste. ;) |
| 20:31.47 | elg | who has that kind of gas, though |
| 20:32.02 | vontrapp | :/ |
| 20:32.17 | vontrapp | have your buddies push you around the roundabout |
| 20:32.38 | emcnabb_ | is there a way to have fetchmail print the messages it gets to STDOUT instead of delivering it to port 25 of the local box? |
| 20:32.52 | elg | probably |
| 20:33.03 | roscivs | hmmmm... Google is telling me that File->Export should have "HTML" as a filetype for Impress, but it doesn't. I wonder if they took that feature out in the beta??? |
| 20:33.25 | elg | what else can you export it as? |
| 20:33.39 | roscivs | PDF and "PlaceWare" |
| 20:33.40 | dataw0lf | roscivs: one sec, I'll check |
| 20:33.44 | elg | placeware? |
| 20:33.46 | roscivs | (.pwp) |
| 20:33.51 | elg | what the heck is that? |
| 20:33.51 | roscivs | Yeah, I have no idea what that is. |
| 20:33.54 | dataw0lf | roscivs: Nope, OO.o ubuntu build has it. |
| 20:33.56 | roscivs | But those are my two options for Export. |
| 20:33.57 | emcnabb_ | I've looked around a lot and haven't been able to figure it out yet |
| 20:34.03 | roscivs | No HTML. |
| 20:34.11 | elg | maybe placeware is the new HTML |
| 20:34.20 | elg | all the cool kids are doing placeware |
| 20:34.27 | mheath | yay for college applications that waste your red ink! -.- |
| 20:34.39 | dataw0lf | roscivs: Export..->File Type (html) -> Export ? |
| 20:34.43 | dataw0lf | I got it. |
| 20:35.15 | roscivs | dataw0lf: File: Export ...: File format: Only options are PDF and "PlaceWare" |
| 20:35.24 | roscivs | which despite having googled I still don't know what this "PlaceWare" thing is. |
| 20:35.37 | dataw0lf | roscivs: Huh. *shrug* One more point for Ubuntu I guess. |
| 20:35.38 | dataw0lf | :) |
| 20:35.48 | roscivs | dataw0lf: What version do you have? |
| 20:35.55 | roscivs | (I'm sure it's a version thing, not a distro thing ;-) |
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| 20:39.21 | RyanE | placeware is a conference call facilitator-type thing, if I remember correctly. You can show slides, run apps, etc. |
| 20:39.34 | dataw0lf | roscivs: Version: 1.9.129-0.1ubuntu3-0ubuntu1 |
| 20:40.10 | roscivs | hm. you're like 0.0.012 ahead of me. I can't imagine they would have taken it out just for me. :-/ |
| 20:40.24 | dataw0lf | *cough* Fedora Core *cough* |
| 20:40.31 | roscivs | hehehe |
| 20:40.42 | dataw0lf | ;P |
| 20:41.09 | roscivs | hm, so, how do I edit the default layouts? /me goes a-googling |
| 20:41.50 | dataw0lf | roscivs: Can't help. You'd know why if you'd ever seen one of my OO.o presentations. |
| 20:41.55 | emcnabb_ | ok, this works: fetchmail -m /bin/cat -a -u testuser station3.example.com |
| 20:42.11 | emcnabb_ | -m say use the cat command as the MDA instead of delivering it to port 25 |
| 20:42.23 | emcnabb_ | "-m cat" that is |
| 20:45.16 | dataw0lf | emcnabb: Nice. |
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| 20:48.50 | roscivs | Hey, speaking of OpenOffice, I've got a strange thing happening on my computer at work ... |
| 20:49.19 | roscivs | I'm using this xkb file that allows me to switch between Dvorak and Qwerty |
| 20:49.33 | roscivs | but while I'm in Qwerty mode, all my control-keys are in Dvorak. |
| 20:49.41 | roscivs | But /only/ in OpenOffice. |
| 20:49.58 | Tene | YAY! |
| 20:50.22 | roscivs | So in other words, if I'm in OpenOffice and I hit "ctrl-s", it thinks I'm hitting "ctrl-o" (dvorak) and tries to open a file. |
| 20:50.33 | roscivs | But if I type normally, it types Qwerty just fine. |
| 20:50.54 | dataw0lf | Have you tried restarting OpenOffice ? |
| 20:50.55 | roscivs | And in every other program I've tried, the ctrl keys work completely normally. |
| 20:51.16 | roscivs | dataw0lf: this has been happening for several days now. (i.e. yes.) |
| 20:51.53 | vontrapp | roscivs: you might be interested in this http://von.fugal.net/blog/show/10 |
| 20:52.08 | vontrapp | still uses xkb, so probably won't fix your problem, but... it's way cool |
| 20:55.27 | vontrapp | sounds like ooffice is matching to meta+raw key code or something |
| 21:03.35 | goozbach | I think I want to develop a clone of RHN |
| 21:05.31 | goozbach | a central server, which mirrors all your yum repos, and allows you to browse avalible packages, update systems at will, schedule reboots, etc... |
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| 21:33.06 | mheath | ~lart PC Club |
| 21:33.24 | mheath | "Serial and Parallel are the same thing. Thats just a different size of serial cable." |
| 21:45.20 | sjansen | Heh. "The 80's are kinda like herpes, they just keep coming back." |
| 21:57.13 | mheath | Yikes |
| 21:57.34 | mheath | I'm going to be on color guard with virtually no experience and little practice...infront of hundreds of Navy and Marine Corp personnel |
| 22:00.28 | dataw0lf | don't worry, their eyes will open but they'll actually be asleep. |
| 22:01.41 | mheath | dataw0lf: nope, this is the Navy/Marine Corps Ball. Everyones there to enjoy themselves and socialize :) |
| 22:02.03 | dataw0lf | mheath: Right, but they're not going to be paying attention to the color guard. |
| 22:02.16 | dataw0lf | And military Balls are usually forced onto people. |
| 22:02.28 | dataw0lf | Noone really wants to go, unless they serve free booze, and if so, see above. |
| 22:02.36 | mheath | dataw0lf: Not the Navy ball :) |
| 22:03.22 | dataw0lf | heh, ok. |
| 22:04.06 | mheath | Actually, there probably won't be many Marines there |
| 22:04.12 | mheath | They're all in Iraq..... |
| 22:13.30 | hans | anyone got jsmith's email handy? |
| 22:15.30 | dataw0lf | jaredsmith@jaredsmith.net |
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| 22:25.50 | xbmodder_firefox | ~lart maquis |
| 22:27.15 | *** join/#utah xbmodder_gaim (i=nobody@dsl092-015-136.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 22:28.08 | *** join/#utah ScytheBlade1 (n=Death@c-67-171-124-6.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 22:28.08 | *** join/#utah old_person_hater (i=nobody@dsl092-015-136.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 22:28.30 | xbmodder_firefox | hey ScytheBlade1 hey |
| 22:28.39 | ScytheBlade1 | hey |
| 22:28.42 | xbmodder_firefox | sup? |
| 22:28.58 | ScytheBlade1 | not much |
| 22:29.14 | roscivs | What's the difference between the CDDL and the LGPL? |
| 22:29.27 | xbmodder_firefox | ~CDDL |
| 22:29.31 | xbmodder_firefox | ~LGPL |
| 22:29.33 | ibot | lgpl is probably the Lesser General Public License, see http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/lesser.txt or http://www.fsf.org/licenses/lgpl.txt |
| 22:29.54 | roscivs | CDDL is Sun's open source license |
| 22:30.44 | xbmodder_gaim | they probably did not want to use an external liscense |
| 22:30.59 | old_person_hater | and LGPL is by FSF |
| 22:31.03 | xbmodder_firefox | ? |
| 22:31.24 | roscivs | So are there absolutely zero functional differences? |
| 22:32.02 | mheath | roscivs: they are entirely different licenses; they function differently and the spirit of each is different. |
| 22:32.24 | roscivs | mheath: soo.... any idea what the functional differences are? |
| 22:32.37 | roscivs | (I know about the spirit of each, not so concerned about that.) |
| 22:33.56 | xbmodder_firefox | i do know it has some incompatilibites |
| 22:34.11 | roscivs | heh, that's about all I've been able to find online |
| 22:34.23 | roscivs | "there are some incompatibilities" (never saying what they are) |
| 22:34.28 | xbmodder_firefox | lol |
| 22:34.30 | roscivs | "the spirit of each is different" (well obviously) |
| 22:34.48 | roscivs | "they're completely different licenses" (but no comparison of the functional differences) |
| 22:34.57 | roscivs | etc. etc. |
| 22:35.50 | roscivs | Even Sun's CDDL FAQ just says "While a license like LGPL would allow this for dynamically linked code, we also needed to be able to release software that statically links source files available under different licenses." ... |
| 22:36.01 | roscivs | but I thought that the LGPL /does/ permit static linking? |
| 22:37.12 | xbmodder_firefox | under the CDDL: they may be combined in a program with proprietary files |
| 22:37.47 | roscivs | Isn't that also true of the LGPL, though? |
| 22:38.09 | roscivs | "The main difference between the GPL and the LGPL is that the latter can be linked to a non-(L)GPLed program, which may be free software or proprietary software." |
| 22:44.39 | roscivs | Hm. Maybe the differences are (1) something vague about static linking that I don't understand, and (2) the CDDL doesn't require the resulting work to be a "software library" (unlike the LGPL). |
| 22:45.13 | Tene | Argh. Seriously. Why does PHP have to suck so much? |
| 22:45.47 | xbmodder_firefox | PHP = Suckage |
| 22:48.26 | Tene | why is something this terrible used so widely? |
| 22:50.40 | mheath | Tene: What are the alternatives? |
| 22:50.53 | mheath | Its easy to use and leads to rapid advanced web development |
| 22:50.55 | xbmodder_firefox | CGI scripts? |
| 22:51.04 | mheath | xbmodder: ....... |
| 22:51.06 | vontrapp | Rails! |
| 22:51.52 | Tene | mheath: I wouldn't say 'advanced' |
| 22:52.03 | Tene | PHP is completely inappropriate for anything very large at all |
| 22:52.08 | RyanE | Tene: good documentation, pervasiveness. |
| 22:52.59 | Tene | Okay... |
| 22:53.08 | Tene | why is 95% of all PHP code so bad? |
| 22:53.20 | Tene | especially commercial packages? |
| 22:53.40 | roscivs | Tene: because it's easy to use and leads to rapid web development |
| 22:53.58 | Tene | but this code *isn't* easy to use |
| 22:54.01 | Tene | or modify |
| 22:54.02 | roscivs | i.e. webmonkeys program 95% of all PHP code without any design whatsoever nor any sound software engineering principles |
| 22:54.02 | Tene | or maintain |
| 22:54.05 | RyanE | *rabid* web development. |
| 22:54.22 | roscivs | hence the *result* is code that isn't easy to use, modify, or maintain. Or heck, even read. |
| 22:54.30 | RyanE | because there are a lot of webmonkeys, there's a lot of **** code thrown around. |
| 22:54.44 | roscivs | But it's certainly *possible* to write good, clean code in php. (especially php 5.) |
| 22:55.06 | RyanE | and it's *possible* to architect a proper MVC app in PHP. It's just *easier* in PHP to not. |
| 22:55.29 | roscivs | also a lot of the design decisions in php encouraged poor coding from the get-go, and those are only recently being remedied. |
| 22:57.33 | roscivs | I think PHP is a great language, and you can write perfectly readable and maintable code in it, but I really think it was designed awfully from the ground up. (Or not designed at all, possibly.) |
| 22:58.05 | RyanE | and most web apps are also organic, and grow like weeds, with little thought for maintainability. |
| 22:58.14 | Tene | it's *really* hard for me to write decent code in PHP |
| 22:58.24 | RyanE | including commercial ones. I suspect most commercial ones were just weeds growing that someone said: Hey, we can sell this! |
| 22:58.51 | roscivs | Tene: Have you ever *seen* decent code in PHP? |
| 22:58.58 | Tene | a few times |
| 22:59.01 | roscivs | It's difficult to do something when you haven't seen any examples of it. |
| 22:59.05 | Tene | only in very small apps |
| 22:59.07 | RyanE | It certainly doesn't facilitate 'doing it right'... |
| 22:59.31 | roscivs | Just imagine you're writing Java code (or whatever your favorite non-PHP language is) instead. |
| 23:01.18 | roscivs | It's a completely different paradigm from the usual PHP mindset. |
| 23:06.34 | *** join/#utah ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 23:06.34 | *** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, uphpu.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com. See planetutah.adelantellc.com for aggregate feeds |
| 23:06.34 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 23:14.05 | goozbach | speaking of PHP I know a guy looking for a copentent PHP scripter who is wanting to be richly rewarded for working with a hellish language.. |
| 23:14.21 | goozbach | where richly rewarded == $$$ |
| 23:16.34 | Tene | would we be allowed to write perl and claim that it's php? |
| 23:17.23 | goozbach | ummm... I don't know he'd fall for that |
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| 23:19.45 | Bradipo | What if you wrote it in perl but then got a perl->php converter? |
| 23:20.07 | Bradipo | The PHP may not be human readable at that point, but it would be PHP. :-) |
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| 23:29.39 | goozbach | how does one look at the contents of an initrd? |
| 23:29.57 | goozbach | to make sure a new initrd has at least the stuff the old one contained? |
| 23:33.18 | xbmodder_lappy | yeah |
| 23:33.45 | xbmodder_lappy | cat initrd|gunzip > outrd| mount -o loop outrd /mnt/floppy |
| 23:35.57 | xbmodder_lappy | got it? |
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