| 00:08.37 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@216-190-206-130.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 00:14.40 | *** join/#utah synic (n=synic@c-67-177-16-249.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 00:19.29 | *** join/#utah SpecialZ (n=chatzill@128.187.240.39) |
| 00:34.37 | *** join/#utah Lone_Wanderer (n=chatzill@graphics.sendsations.com) |
| 00:48.55 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wade@65.73.113.199) |
| 00:50.35 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=fungus@66.219.228.201) |
| 01:00.25 | *** join/#utah synic (n=synic@c-67-177-16-249.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 01:06.42 | *** join/#utah levi (n=levi@levi.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 01:06.53 | levi | Yo. |
| 01:07.31 | Tene | hey |
| 01:07.54 | levi | Wassup? |
| 01:08.54 | Tene | sleepy and hungry |
| 01:09.01 | Tene | and can't decide if I should take a nap or cook food |
| 01:13.25 | levi | Mmm, food. |
| 01:15.06 | *** join/#utah byronc (n=byron@c-24-10-174-94.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 01:15.12 | *** part/#utah levi (n=levi@levi.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 01:15.18 | *** join/#utah levi (n=levi@levi.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 01:28.01 | *** join/#utah vex (i=nwood@stutter.prohosting.com) |
| 01:41.10 | *** join/#utah Hhhhh (n=cristoba@c-67-169-244-47.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 01:41.45 | *** join/#utah xbmodder_gaim (i=nobody@dsl092-015-136.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 01:41.46 | xbmodder_gaim | hey |
| 01:45.56 | *** join/#utah xbmodder_gai1 (i=nobody@dsl092-015-136.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 02:04.07 | maquis | http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/360 |
| 02:05.05 | xbmodder_gaim | wow... |
| 02:06.05 | *** join/#utah tensai (n=tensai@kite.zmonkey.org) |
| 02:08.17 | maquis | Lessons learned |
| 02:08.18 | maquis | Software developers need to be aware of potentially illegal uses of the software that they develop, market and sell. While they generally will not be held liable for such illegal uses, they may have some liability if they know or reasonably should know about the illegal or infringing use, particularly if they advertise or promote the usefulness of the software for such use. |
| 02:08.23 | maquis | This could be applied, for example, to anonymizing programs, wipe or delete programs, evidence eliminators, or even (potentially) access control programs, if developers know or should know that these will be used for obstruction of justice. It is kind of like holding manufacturers of shredders liable for their use by Enron, or holding gun manufacturers liable when their guns are used for illegal purposes. Oh wait, Congress just exempted gun manufacturers |
| 02:14.18 | maquis | http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/7942 |
| 02:16.55 | tensai | ~lart maquis for expecting rational behavior from the powers that be |
| 02:17.14 | maquis | tensai: i know... it's crazy... |
| 02:17.47 | maquis | but i have to say... i don't mind reading about m$'s stupidity in complaining at massachusetts for taking it's ball and going home |
| 02:19.11 | tensai | maquis: that indeed is a good story |
| 02:19.46 | maquis | it's a lot more friendly than claiming that someone is a criminal for writing a piece of software that can be used for illegal purposes |
| 02:22.51 | goozbach | I must say.. THIS is the best salsa this side od the border. |
| 02:23.25 | goozbach | el sotano, San Fran, CA |
| 02:25.33 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@67-41-182-14.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 02:46.01 | goozbach | ~wiki ncmo |
| 02:47.47 | xbmodder_gaim | thats random... |
| 02:48.07 | mheath | xbmodder_gaim: I don't think that was the definition he was looking for. |
| 02:50.19 | xbmodder_gaim | mheath:I am saying that its random that someone would make an acronym for 'nikmo' |
| 02:55.54 | goozbach | ~wiki random |
| 02:57.22 | goozbach | that was the definition I was looking for. |
| 02:58.18 | goozbach | jus trying to see if that article still existed. |
| 02:58.45 | goozbach | ten! jeez |
| 02:59.20 | goozbach | oh! wait... I'm an hour BEHIND |
| 03:00.02 | goozbach | eight! jeez! |
| 03:01.22 | maquis | goozbach: cold? |
| 03:01.36 | goozbach | which stores sell dickies brand? |
| 03:02.11 | mheath | goozbach: I could name a few, many of which I think you'd feel odd shopping in :) |
| 03:03.21 | goozbach | mheath: why? |
| 03:04.41 | mheath | goozbach: dickies brand pants are rather popular with certain styles of teenagers today, and are featured in many rather offbeat retail shops |
| 03:04.57 | goozbach | mheath: I'd really like to know. |
| 03:05.25 | goozbach | just like IRC.... |
| 03:05.39 | goozbach | ask a question... |
| 03:05.48 | goozbach | get a story. |
| 03:06.54 | mheath | goozbach: I think you can find dickies brand stuff in lots of stores, though |
| 03:07.52 | goozbach | examples? |
| 03:08.04 | mheath | goozbach: where in the country are you right now? :P |
| 03:08.23 | goozbach | San Fran. |
| 03:09.19 | mheath | goozbach: Mervyn's and the like will likely have it |
| 03:09.55 | mheath | Theres one particular store called "hot topic" that carries a lot of Dickies brand stuff, but thats rather specifically one of the places I said you'd feel odd shopping in. |
| 03:10.11 | goozbach | why? |
| 03:10.26 | goozbach | you must not know me very well |
| 03:11.06 | goozbach | thats where I get a large number of my tshirts |
| 03:11.41 | mheath | goozbach: meh, apparently I don't. |
| 03:15.39 | *** part/#utah xbmodder_gaim (i=nobody@dsl092-015-136.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 03:15.47 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 03:15.48 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 03:15.48 | *** join/#utah levi (n=levi@levi.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 03:21.37 | *** join/#utah bonez41 (n=aint@c-67-166-77-14.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 03:22.31 | *** join/#utah xbmodder_gaim_ (i=nobody@dsl092-015-136.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 03:22.33 | xbmodder_gaim_ | hey |
| 03:23.20 | *** join/#utah Hhhhh (n=cristoba@c-67-169-244-47.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 03:23.24 | xbmodder_firefox | Hhhhh: hey |
| 03:37.39 | levi | Yo. |
| 03:42.12 | xbmodder_firefox | would someone write a blog module for 10 bucks? (for php website) |
| 03:42.24 | levi | maquis: Back to gentoo? |
| 03:42.26 | maquis | 10$? |
| 03:42.32 | maquis | levi: haven't changed my server yet |
| 03:42.41 | xbmodder_firefox | maquis: yes... |
| 03:42.53 | maquis | xbmodder_firefox: if you can find someone that'd do that, let me know... i've been looking for a sucker who'd work for peanuts |
| 03:43.06 | xbmodder_firefox | lol |
| 03:43.19 | maquis | you may think it's funny |
| 03:43.48 | maquis | do you disagree with my assessment of what you're willing to pay? |
| 03:57.57 | goozbach | xbmodder_firefox: the world doesn't need another blog module. |
| 03:58.08 | goozbach | esp written in php |
| 04:01.35 | levi | Amen. |
| 04:01.52 | levi | The world doesn't even need another lisp blog module, but I wrote one anyway. ;) |
| 04:05.26 | xbmodder_firefox | goozbach: for phpwebsite |
| 04:06.30 | levi | xbmodder_firefox: Blogs aren't hard. Write it yourself. |
| 04:07.03 | maquis | w00t! |
| 04:07.11 | xbmodder_firefox | levi: its not for me. |
| 04:07.17 | maquis | i got my printer on my desktop to work directly from my laptop... |
| 04:07.23 | xbmodder_firefox | levi: one of my friends want it for phpwebsite |
| 04:07.26 | xbmodder_firefox | maquis: good job! |
| 04:07.30 | maquis | i still have no idea *why* it works, but it does :) |
| 04:07.40 | maquis | xbmodder_firefox: thanks |
| 04:08.34 | maquis | hmmm |
| 04:08.53 | levi | xbmodder_firefox: So? Still write it yourself. |
| 04:09.09 | xbmodder_firefox | levi: i gotta learn PHP |
| 04:09.26 | maquis | why was there an entire boatload of elderly people (who couldn't swim because they didn't have the strength) not wearing lifejackets? |
| 04:10.20 | *** join/#utah amcnabb (n=amcnabb@c-24-10-236-93.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 04:11.51 | levi | Interesting article about fizzy yogurt developed at BYU: http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,69017,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_3 |
| 04:11.57 | tensai | maquis: cups' lpd is merely an interface to cups, so you should be right about the restart |
| 04:12.11 | maquis | tensai: yeah... it worked |
| 04:12.24 | tensai | levi: I've also heard of fizzy grapes |
| 04:12.43 | tensai | maquis: it's my magic touch :) |
| 04:13.32 | maquis | tensai: sure :) |
| 04:13.39 | maquis | it certainly wasn't my magic touch |
| 04:14.41 | maquis | levi: a U.S. patent on a process to make "a carbonated semi-solid or solid spoonable food formed by contacting said food with carbon dioxide." |
| 04:16.31 | maquis | carbonated cut fruit???? |
| 04:22.30 | levi | Heh, a POS Russion Lada car upgraded by Lotus on Top Gear: http://impressur.com/feed/data/upimages/upvideo/lotus_lada/video.html |
| 04:59.37 | xbmodder | peanuts! |
| 04:59.38 | *** join/#utah bigdog_ut (n=bigdog_u@shylonhunter.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 05:13.00 | maquis | http://addictinggames.com/holycow.html <-- very hard if you don't have a mouse! |
| 05:13.16 | maquis | w/o a mouse, i can't get past level 7 |
| 05:23.01 | *** join/#utah emcnabb_ (n=emcnabb@67-41-182-14.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 05:23.43 | levi | Any more Scheme homework? |
| 05:23.55 | maquis | levi: test tomorrow so no homework tonight |
| 05:24.10 | levi | Feel good about the test? |
| 05:24.15 | maquis | dunno |
| 05:24.32 | maquis | it's hard to figure out how to feel when a test is open-book, open-note, open-homework... |
| 05:25.21 | levi | Hmm, true. |
| 05:29.14 | maquis | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:29.15 | maquis | "Printer off-line." |
| 05:29.29 | maquis | having those two at the same time kind-of confuses me |
| 05:30.54 | maquis | not quite as bad as the "System Error: Success!" message i got the other day.... |
| 05:35.56 | maquis | GAH! |
| 05:35.58 | maquis | cups hates me |
| 05:36.08 | maquis | my printer ran out of paper... |
| 05:36.17 | maquis | so, i went over and filled the paper |
| 05:36.26 | maquis | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:40.06 | levi | Heh. |
| 05:41.27 | maquis | another random detail about this printer |
| 05:41.34 | maquis | despite the "power button" on the printer |
| 05:41.46 | maquis | if you want to get it to turn off, you have to unplug it |
| 05:42.00 | maquis | i've stood there holding the power button in for > 30 seconds and it just ignores me |
| 05:42.27 | maquis | hmmm |
| 05:42.41 | maquis | and it just started printing, but i haven't the slightest idea what it's printing |
| 05:42.55 | maquis | i could've sworn i cancelled all the jobs |
| 05:43.15 | maquis | i'm not going to try to stop it though |
| 05:43.19 | maquis | that could be dangerous |
| 05:45.44 | maquis | levi: so for my civ class, we have an assignment to create a group of gods similar tothe greek gods, but who rule over modern things |
| 05:45.55 | maquis | i'm considering making a group similar to the furies to rule over my computer |
| 05:45.59 | levi | Heh, cool. :) |
| 05:46.06 | levi | Sounds like a fun idea. |
| 05:46.10 | maquis | hard to appease, easily angered.... |
| 05:46.50 | maquis | one of my friends is trying to decide whether to do the "BYU Gods" or the "mormon gods" |
| 05:51.01 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (n=zaphod@c-24-2-80-89.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 06:14.14 | xbmodder | hey |
| 06:14.32 | linuxalien | Hi |
| 06:14.37 | xbmodder | sup? |
| 06:15.16 | linuxalien | I'm just surfing... putting off sleep |
| 06:18.53 | linuxalien | What about you? |
| 06:38.29 | xbmodder | umm |
| 06:38.35 | xbmodder | putting off sleeping |
| 06:38.42 | xbmodder | and being bored as crap. |
| 06:39.16 | linuxalien | I'm chatting with my bro too, so it's not too bad. |
| 06:44.13 | xbmodder | fun. |
| 06:44.17 | vontrapp | most unwisely |
| 06:44.38 | vontrapp | read a great article about copyright tendencies |
| 06:44.47 | vontrapp | http://news.ft.com/cms/s/441306be-2eb6-11da-9aed-00000e2511c8.html |
| 06:46.27 | xbmodder | linuxalien, what distro do you use |
| 06:49.19 | linuxalien | Gentoo |
| 06:49.57 | linuxalien | I also like Mac OS X |
| 06:50.10 | xbmodder | cool |
| 06:50.17 | xbmodder | gentoo on {PPC? |
| 06:50.24 | linuxalien | One of these days I might install Gentoo portage on it |
| 06:50.39 | linuxalien | Nopers, I don't plan on putting a full blown linux on this Mac right now. |
| 06:50.49 | linuxalien | But maybe set it up with portage |
| 06:54.08 | xbmodder | portage on tiger++ == bad idea |
| 06:54.53 | linuxalien | I heard it worked pretty well |
| 06:55.04 | linuxalien | It even co-exists with fink rather well |
| 06:56.11 | xbmodder | i've never got fink to work... |
| 06:56.37 | linuxalien | Gubug had an install fest. I missed it but I bet they coulda helped you. |
| 06:58.54 | xbmodder | Only problem is that I am california |
| 06:59.03 | xbmodder | I gotta change my name to xbcalifornia |
| 06:59.15 | linuxalien | Cool. Whatcha doing in Cali? |
| 07:00.03 | xbmodder | umm living here... |
| 07:00.07 | xbmodder | Being a student |
| 07:00.19 | xbmodder | k-12 still... |
| 07:00.48 | linuxalien | Oh cool. I barely remember high school. :P |
| 07:01.00 | xbmodder | it sucks. |
| 07:01.09 | xbmodder | thats the best description |
| 07:01.20 | linuxalien | The teachers or the students or both? |
| 07:02.57 | xbmodder | both i'd say |
| 07:03.10 | xbmodder | some teachers hate their jobs and just wanna get over with it. |
| 07:03.17 | xbmodder | some just suck at teaching |
| 07:03.25 | xbmodder | some are plain old boring |
| 07:03.43 | linuxalien | Nice. The best thing to do is pass everything so you don't have to stick around any longer than you have to. |
| 07:06.05 | xbmodder | True... |
| 07:06.08 | xbmodder | passing is simple |
| 07:06.41 | linuxalien | Coolio |
| 07:07.04 | xbmodder | Coolio -- isn't that a 60s word? |
| 07:07.24 | linuxalien | Yeah, and some hip hop dudes name |
| 07:07.32 | linuxalien | dude's |
| 07:09.37 | xbmodder | oh yeah |
| 07:10.05 | linuxalien | I think he was popular for a while. |
| 07:10.16 | linuxalien | Anyhow, I'm getting sleepy. I'd better get some rest |
| 07:10.55 | xbmodder | g'night |
| 07:11.02 | xbmodder | have fun counting sheep |
| 07:12.38 | linuxalien | Thanks! Goodnight. |
| 07:19.51 | *** join/#utah Goshen (n=Goshen@c-67-172-238-57.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 07:22.33 | xbmodder | Goshen, comcasten? |
| 07:22.45 | Goshen | Comcast yes |
| 07:22.47 | Goshen | why? |
| 07:23.09 | Goshen | can't beat 6mb/s down 768k up |
| 07:24.26 | xbmodder | don't they block ports? |
| 07:24.38 | Goshen | none |
| 07:24.56 | Goshen | I have run a web server running http and https for two years |
| 07:25.01 | Goshen | I can SSH in |
| 07:25.06 | Goshen | no blocked ports |
| 07:25.09 | Goshen | its great |
| 07:25.13 | Goshen | and my ip never changes |
| 07:25.52 | xbmodder | 25 |
| 07:25.52 | xbmodder | is that a rumour? |
| 07:26.22 | Goshen | I could tell you if you asked in a complete sentance |
| 07:26.31 | Goshen | I have no idea what you are asking |
| 07:26.40 | Goshen | do they block port 25? is that what you are asking? |
| 07:27.00 | xbmodder | yeah |
| 07:27.07 | xbmodder | Do they block port 25? |
| 07:27.12 | Goshen | never tried |
| 07:27.16 | Goshen | is that for SMTP? |
| 07:27.16 | xbmodder | nc -l 25 |
| 07:27.18 | Goshen | incoming? |
| 07:27.21 | xbmodder | tell me your IP |
| 07:27.23 | xbmodder | (yeah) |
| 07:27.48 | Goshen | You don't want to send outbound mail from comcast I have before |
| 07:27.51 | Goshen | AOL bounces it back |
| 07:28.03 | Goshen | as do some others because it is coming from a residential block |
| 07:28.13 | Goshen | much better just paying a nominal fee and get hosting |
| 07:28.20 | Goshen | pop3 works with gmail too |
| 07:29.20 | Goshen | I need to port forward |
| 07:29.20 | Goshen | hold |
| 07:30.25 | Goshen | ok, go |
| 07:32.32 | Goshen | did you fall asleep? |
| 07:36.04 | xbmodder | ? |
| 07:36.08 | xbmodder | no |
| 07:36.12 | xbmodder | just doing other stuff. |
| 07:36.28 | xbmodder | i love speakeasy |
| 07:37.41 | Goshen | they are the providers that encourage sharing your connect right? |
| 07:37.46 | Goshen | DSL only though? |
| 07:37.57 | Goshen | I don't see anything, you try my port? |
| 07:38.59 | Goshen | holy crap...» 6.0/768 $125.95/mo |
| 07:39.06 | Goshen | thats what I get now for half as much |
| 07:40.43 | xbmodder | 6.0/768 shell account, account manager, web hosting, free dial-up, 1GB NNTP |
| 07:41.31 | Goshen | sounds like they are matching comcast |
| 07:41.50 | Goshen | the shell account, and free dial-up are more then comcast |
| 07:42.00 | Goshen | man, I miss my free NNTP unlimited |
| 07:42.21 | Goshen | still waiting for you to try my port, I sent you the ip in pm |
| 07:43.31 | xbmodder | oh... |
| 07:43.54 | xbmodder | drroller.com |
| 07:43.58 | xbmodder | drroller.com [67.172.238.57] 25 (smtp) : Connection refused |
| 07:45.13 | *** join/#utah Goshun (n=Goshen@c-67-172-238-57.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 07:47.06 | Goshun | try again |
| 07:47.43 | xbmodder | same problem again :( |
| 07:48.41 | Goshen | interesting, oh well, I really like gmail :) |
| 07:52.20 | Goshen | Now there is a cool project... http://freshmeat.net/projects/wpclipart/?branch_id=57855&release_id=208344 |
| 07:53.58 | xbmodder | useful and cool. |
| 07:56.01 | Goshen | much needed |
| 07:56.14 | Goshen | one of my wifes bigest complaints about openoffice |
| 11:08.43 | *** join/#utah emcnabb__ (n=emcnabb@67-41-182-14.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 11:10.54 | *** join/#utah maquis (n=maquis@joanna.zmonkey.org) |
| 12:18.31 | sjansen | People who think they know everything greatly annoy those of us who do. |
| 12:19.34 | bonez41 | I don't know NOTHIN! |
| 12:28.55 | bonez41 | curious....about procmail... I can't get mail working...at least incoming on my home system... discovered I don't have a .procmailrc in $HOME....though I have one at work |
| 12:29.32 | sjansen | that doesn't sound like a question yet |
| 12:30.25 | bonez41 | for sjansen , my question: Is Procmail necessary, to receive email? are there other competing packages, that do the same thing procmail does? |
| 12:30.32 | bonez41 | er... my questions |
| 12:31.16 | sjansen | Procmail is not required unless you have configured your mail server in such a way as to make it required. |
| 12:31.52 | sjansen | Yes, there are competitors. Not many important ones. Probably the closest would be maildrop, which I believe is part of cyrus. |
| 12:33.18 | bonez41 | ok....thanks |
| 12:34.48 | bonez41 | sjansen, I typed 'procmail' at a prompt..and it just gave a blank..no command prompt was returned..just sitting there....I thought.oh, maybe it's processing all that email ..those test mails I have sent to my address here.... |
| 12:35.02 | bonez41 | does it do that? process mail? |
| 12:37.16 | sjansen | you are currently inside of procmail, it is waiting for you to type in an email messagge for it to process |
| 12:37.39 | sjansen | normally, your mua (postfix, exim, qmail, etc.) would be the one passing email to procmail |
| 12:38.05 | sjansen | procmail then sorts that mail, possibly filing it in different folders or forwarding it to other adresses |
| 12:38.31 | sjansen | press control-d to get out of procmail |
| 12:48.53 | sjansen | Blaaaaaarghhh!!! |
| 12:57.54 | bonez41 | thanks |
| 13:42.08 | sjansen | http://kerneltrap.org/node/5584 |
| 13:59.54 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wade@66.237.80.85) |
| 14:03.04 | graphyx | So when will those changes be made to the mainstream linux kernel? |
| 14:27.58 | elg | not for many quanta |
| 14:31.22 | *** join/#utah synic (n=synic@66.239.17.226.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 14:32.27 | *** join/#utah Jayce^ (n=Jayce_@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 14:32.28 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 14:37.05 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@216-190-206-130.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 14:52.00 | sjansen | perl, perl, perl |
| 14:52.15 | sjansen | ~seen fozzmoo |
| 14:52.24 | ibot | fozzmoo <n=fozz@166.70.238.250> was last seen on IRC in channel #utah, 11d 20h 42m 6s ago, saying: 'Could just be a general statement.'. |
| 14:58.18 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 15:09.28 | *** join/#utah phinux (n=phinux@iocane.cs.byu.edu) |
| 15:20.25 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@208-186-97-26.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 15:28.39 | *** join/#utah bzob_l (n=bzob_l@nat.myfamilyinc.com) |
| 15:29.47 | elg | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:29.47 | elg | unavailable; Client host [205.174.22.27] blocked using dnsbl.njabl.org; |
| 15:29.48 | elg | spam source -- 1124904881> |
| 15:30.05 | elg | is that telling me the smtp server that's saying that? |
| 15:31.31 | Bradipo | Is this a log or a bounce? |
| 15:31.56 | Bradipo | And is that IP your IP? |
| 15:32.08 | elg | this is the bounce message they forwarded to us. not my ip |
| 15:32.23 | Bradipo | So, they are trying to send an email to you, they got a bounce and this is what it says? |
| 15:32.32 | elg | the customer can only email our guy at his wencor.com address, not his myisaparts.com or dixieaerospace.com addresses |
| 15:32.40 | elg | this is the bounce they apparently get |
| 15:32.46 | elg | doesn't look like it's from my mailserver |
| 15:33.06 | Bradipo | Nothing in there that indicates it happened when communicating with your server? |
| 15:33.22 | Bradipo | Also, do you use dnsbl.njabl.org? |
| 15:33.57 | elg | let me check |
| 15:35.06 | elg | yes we do |
| 15:35.45 | elg | guess I should have been unlazy and checked the logs first. :) we're definitely blocking from them. not sure why the wencor.com address is working for them though |
| 15:35.56 | Bradipo | Yeah, logs help. |
| 15:36.04 | Bradipo | Depends on your software I guess. |
| 15:36.56 | Bradipo | Maybe the difference is that you have a secondary MX for wencor.com that doesn't exist with the other domains. |
| 15:37.12 | Bradipo | And that secondary MX doesn't do the same spam checking that your primary does. |
| 15:37.41 | Bradipo | Well, at least that could be true with myisaparts.com |
| 15:39.31 | elg | no, actually myisaparts doesn't have a secondary it looks like (well it does but it's the same IP) |
| 15:40.12 | elg | maybe in the other cases it managed to get delivered to xmission as secondary |
| 15:45.46 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@obelix.cs.byu.edu) |
| 15:50.09 | *** join/#utah suifur (n=suifur@linuxfordummies/channel-support-Mandriva/suifur) |
| 15:50.39 | suifur | Ummm, sorta offtopic i know, but is anyone here familiar w/ Herod the Great's atrocities aside from the Massacre of the Innocents |
| 15:50.40 | suifur | ? |
| 15:54.57 | elg | there's a nice little blurb in a footnote to a chapter in Jesus The Christ by Talmage that details quite a few |
| 15:55.57 | suifur | hmmm i wonder if my LDS friend has that book |
| 15:56.07 | suifur | but is familiar w/ the faith :) |
| 15:56.47 | suifur | all i really need is really just biblical verse of where i can find it |
| 15:57.36 | phinux | Was Herod the Great the one who made that stupid promise to his daughter that resulted in John the Baptist's beheading? |
| 15:57.56 | elg | no, that was a different herod |
| 15:57.59 | elg | if it was a herod at all |
| 15:58.06 | phinux | Too many Herods. |
| 15:58.10 | elg | suifur: I'm not sure any of the other atrocities are in the bible actually |
| 15:58.19 | elg | talmage got them from historical documents, iirc |
| 15:58.19 | suifur | dangit, looks like i've gotta go historical |
| 15:58.30 | phinux | Depends on which Bible you read. |
| 15:59.06 | suifur | mmm, mine's classified under a Catholic bible because it includes the Apocrypha |
| 15:59.33 | phinux | Yes, your bible probably has some good stuff about Herod. |
| 15:59.56 | suifur | yah, Catholics don't like him |
| 16:00.11 | phinux | I have a copy of a Bible with the Apocrypha, I just haven't gotten around to reading any of them. |
| 16:00.58 | suifur | they really aren't anything spectacular in terms of differentiation from the rest of the Bible, I've read them all and for the longest since I was raised Catholic I could never differentiate which books weren't in the protestant Bibles |
| 16:02.11 | phinux | Truth be told, I have a lot of trouble reading the bible in the first place. I'm in Psalms right now, and to me, they all sound the same. But then, I get bored easily. |
| 16:02.29 | suifur | it can be tedious |
| 16:02.41 | phinux | Probably doesn't help that I do my reading around 1am. :-) |
| 16:02.44 | suifur | i'm more familiar with the new testament than the old, but i've become better about it ;) |
| 16:03.19 | phinux | There's a lot of good stuff in the old testament. And probably a lot of good stuff that I just don't realize is good yet. |
| 16:03.20 | suifur | well I guess putting to death your own sons counts as atrocities |
| 16:03.43 | *** join/#utah levi (n=levi@66.239.25.2.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 16:03.46 | phinux | depends on the sons. |
| 16:06.08 | suifur | ummm he was just really suspicious so i'm gonna go w/ them being atrocities |
| 16:06.17 | levi | Morning. |
| 16:06.20 | suifur | he took pleasure in the death of some of his sons so go figure |
| 16:06.23 | suifur | ello levi |
| 16:07.25 | maquis | levi: you wanna take a test??? |
| 16:07.34 | levi | maquis: Nope! |
| 16:07.37 | suifur | wow, gnomesword is reallyk handy ;) |
| 16:07.52 | maquis | levi: it'd be easy for you, though |
| 16:08.01 | maquis | suifur: wazzat? |
| 16:08.07 | levi | maquis: Possibly, but I still don't want to take a test. :) |
| 16:08.20 | suifur | linux program that you can read the Bible from |
| 16:08.21 | maquis | levi: :( |
| 16:08.26 | maquis | suifur: oh... |
| 16:08.29 | maquis | cool |
| 16:08.29 | suifur | lets you search for strings, download commentaries etc. |
| 16:08.36 | suifur | its good if you're doing research w/ the Bible |
| 16:08.44 | suifur | like my paper that i need to finish and turn in tomorrow |
| 16:09.37 | maquis | hahaha |
| 16:09.40 | *** join/#utah [-] (n=dataw0lf@66.219.227.114) |
| 16:09.52 | maquis | byu created some stupid "science women" mailing lst... |
| 16:09.58 | maquis | and they've sent out like 3 emails to it |
| 16:10.14 | maquis | and today, there are about 15 emails in my inbox from people who replied to it to say "take me off this list" |
| 16:10.23 | maquis | so they're going to disable the list :) |
| 16:10.30 | levi | Heh. |
| 16:10.54 | levi | What did they sign up for the 'Science Women' list for, then? |
| 16:11.02 | maquis | we didn't |
| 16:11.13 | maquis | byu just stuck all the women in sciences into a mailing list without asking |
| 16:11.17 | maquis | and nobody wants to be on it |
| 16:11.30 | levi | Ahh, I see. |
| 16:11.37 | maquis | but there's noplace listed for where to go to opt-out |
| 16:11.42 | sjansen | that is beautiful |
| 16:11.44 | *** join/#utah Hhhhh (n=cristoba@c-67-169-244-47.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 16:11.45 | suifur | elg: actually, in Mark chapter 6 it talks of 'a' Herod having John the Baptist imprisoned and beheaded, but there's no indication as to wehter he's the same as the one that commited the Massacre of the Innocents or if he's a son |
| 16:11.49 | maquis | and so everybody's just been hitting reply to say they want off |
| 16:12.22 | maquis | suifur: no... but we know from luke that the herod who was responsible for the massacre of the innocents died when christ was 4... |
| 16:12.29 | sjansen | you're too helpless to seek community support and information on your own, so they step in and help the poor women without invitation |
| 16:12.32 | suifur | maquis: ah ok |
| 16:12.38 | maquis | which means he probably wasn't responsible for things that happened 20 years later |
| 16:12.39 | maquis | :) |
| 16:12.47 | elg | suifur: I'm quite sure he's a different herod. the infant-killing one died like 3 years after the infant incident |
| 16:12.53 | maquis | sjansen: kinda... |
| 16:12.56 | suifur | ah yes, it was Herod Antipas, his son that beheaded John the Baptist |
| 16:13.06 | maquis | haha |
| 16:13.10 | maquis | here's a funny email: |
| 16:13.44 | maquis | There has been a terrible error that has occurred in the Sciencewomen list. This list is being completely disabled. We sincerely appologize for all the convenience. Please delete all related email. You do not need to make any more responses to the sciencewomen list. |
| 16:14.19 | maquis | i'm wondering if they're referring to the "terrible error" of adding a bunch of people to a list without telling them how to opt out, then sending them random mailings that they don't want... |
| 16:14.37 | Hhhhh | suifur, what are you guys talking about? |
| 16:14.46 | elg | or in making the list in the first place? |
| 16:14.49 | levi | maquis: Heh. A terrible error indeed! |
| 16:14.50 | suifur | Hhhhh: I'm looking for atrocities committed by Herod the Great |
| 16:14.53 | Hhhhh | oh |
| 16:14.56 | suifur | aside from his MAssacre of the Innocents |
| 16:15.14 | suifur | I may just focus on the Herod family line considering they all seemed to be pretty bad |
| 16:15.29 | Hhhhh | yea, the one that killed John the Baptist and tried Jesus was his son, Herodes Antipas |
| 16:15.43 | maquis | well... that's a nice number of emails... |
| 16:15.51 | suifur | anyone know of a 'roundabouts' chapter where it says Herod the Great died in Luke? I can't find the specific passage |
| 16:16.41 | levi | Oooh, Squeak finally has a non-embarrasing homepage. |
| 16:16.42 | Hhhhh | did you guys hear that Harriet Miers, Bush's 2nd Supreme Court nominee, was a lawyer for Micro$oft? |
| 16:17.13 | Hhhhh | and she won the litigation against MS-DOS 6.0 and its defects |
| 16:17.38 | Hhhhh | so Micro$oft was able to sell the update to 6.2 instead of giving it away |
| 16:17.58 | Hhhhh | http://www.slingshot.org/?p=135 |
| 16:18.15 | levi | http://www.squeak.org/ |
| 16:18.53 | sjansen | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herod_the_Great |
| 16:18.59 | Hhhhh | squeak is smalltalk, right? |
| 16:19.11 | Hhhhh | I thought smalltalk was kindof dead |
| 16:19.12 | levi | Yup. |
| 16:19.21 | levi | Only kind-of. |
| 16:19.42 | Hhhhh | except by a couple of stubborn people, right? ;) |
| 16:19.44 | Hhhhh | j/k |
| 16:20.00 | levi | Well, a lot of really smart stubborn people, but yeah. |
| 16:20.10 | Hhhhh | kindof like old physics professors and FORTRAN |
| 16:20.22 | levi | No, not really like that. |
| 16:20.37 | sjansen | the question is, which is more dead: scheme or cobol? |
| 16:20.42 | levi | Although Fortran is still useful for number crunching. |
| 16:20.56 | levi | sjansen: Neither are dead at all. |
| 16:21.01 | Hhhhh | well, scheme is still being taught at BYU in CS 330 |
| 16:21.16 | Hhhhh | well, what does it mean for a language to be dead? |
| 16:21.29 | Hhhhh | people still know and use Latin, but its a dead language |
| 16:21.32 | sjansen | Hhhhh: Ever used Algol? |
| 16:21.33 | levi | sjansen: Scheme is still alive in academia, Cobol is still alive on mainframes. |
| 16:21.38 | Hhhhh | sjansen, no |
| 16:21.52 | sjansen | Hhhhh: Algol is a dead language. As is B. |
| 16:22.02 | Hhhhh | actually Scheme is used and programmed on in a lot of places |
| 16:22.04 | suifur | hrm |
| 16:22.08 | sjansen | levi: I'm surprised you don't think I realize that. |
| 16:22.13 | Hhhhh | Cobol is only relegated to upkeep nowadays |
| 16:22.22 | suifur | I can't find the passage in Luke maquis |
| 16:22.30 | sjansen | Hhhhh: Hardly. New cobol code is being written even today. |
| 16:22.36 | levi | sjansen: Oh, I do think you realize it, I was just typing it anyway. |
| 16:22.39 | maquis | suifur: maybe it's not luke |
| 16:22.58 | maquis | wherever it talks about them going to egypt during the massacre of the innocents |
| 16:22.58 | suifur | i'll try john |
| 16:23.05 | Hhhhh | for upkeep of old systems only (I'm VERY sure of that) because it would too costly update at this specific point |
| 16:23.10 | sjansen | Sure, not as much as there used to be. But there's even a Cobol.Net for crying out loud. |
| 16:23.12 | levi | New Fortran and new Cobol code is written all the time. The languages are still being maintained and updated. |
| 16:23.12 | maquis | it says that they stayed there until an angel came and told them that herod was dead |
| 16:23.15 | Hhhhh | nobody does it for choice |
| 16:23.47 | Hhhhh | when 1% of all programmers do Cobol, I'll believe that Cobol is still not entirely dead |
| 16:23.59 | levi | Hhhhh: You have a pretty narrow view of what the whole field of software looks like. |
| 16:24.13 | Hhhhh | hehe, expand my horizons then? |
| 16:24.16 | maquis | gay |
| 16:24.17 | sjansen | Hhhhh: I knew a couple of guys that wrote cobol by choice. |
| 16:24.18 | maquis | 1er |
| 16:24.21 | maquis | gah! |
| 16:24.39 | Hhhhh | sjansen, any of them under 50 years old? |
| 16:24.40 | suifur | yup |
| 16:24.55 | maquis | now if only i could get the honors program to tkae me off their list, i'd be happy |
| 16:25.05 | Hhhhh | or able to get a job in something different than cobol or frotran? |
| 16:25.08 | Hhhhh | fortran** |
| 16:25.39 | Hhhhh | I mean, physics professors use FORTRAN by choice |
| 16:25.42 | suifur | its the passage before they note the Massacre of the Innocents, it says they came back after he died |
| 16:26.06 | Hhhhh | and they proudly claim that real scientific computing is done in FORTRAN |
| 16:26.15 | Hhhhh | it makes me snicker |
| 16:26.25 | levi | Hhhhh: Why does it make you snicker? |
| 16:26.35 | Hhhhh | i'd use MATLAB for physics stuff most of the time, 100 easier to program |
| 16:26.54 | Hhhhh | because for physics stuff, FORTRAN is no match for MATLAB |
| 16:27.07 | levi | Hhhhh: MATLAB is fine for PC stuff, or rapid prototyping, but when you want to run an app on a supercomputer... |
| 16:27.15 | Hhhhh | but their dinosaur, proud attitude is a proof of their n00bness |
| 16:27.26 | Hhhhh | huh, supercomputer? |
| 16:27.31 | Hhhhh | how many of those are there? |
| 16:27.36 | levi | Hhhhh: Lots! |
| 16:27.46 | levi | My company sells them! |
| 16:27.56 | levi | The market is growing rapidly. |
| 16:27.57 | Hhhhh | oh, ok, that explains your partiality |
| 16:28.01 | Hhhhh | growing, lol |
| 16:28.05 | levi | Uh, yeah. |
| 16:28.17 | maquis | suifur: yeha... that one |
| 16:28.22 | levi | Hhhhh: Why do you insist on flouting your ignorance? |
| 16:28.22 | Hhhhh | you work for Cray? |
| 16:28.53 | Hhhhh | my ignorance? I'm not the one claiming that the supercomputer market is growing |
| 16:29.19 | Hhhhh | or that Cobol isn't really dead because a couple of old guys maintain a mainframe from the 60s |
| 16:29.51 | Hhhhh | but I guess it's because I don't know about the software market :p |
| 16:29.51 | Jayce^ | I think Hhhhh thinks supercompters are limited to old school mainframes... |
| 16:30.03 | Hhhhh | ? |
| 16:30.07 | graphyx | Hhhhh: BYU has at least two super computers. |
| 16:30.11 | Hhhhh | I love to be interpreted |
| 16:30.21 | Hhhhh | graphyx, I'm well aware o that |
| 16:30.35 | Hhhhh | but that doesn't make the supercomputer market "gorw" |
| 16:30.38 | Hhhhh | grow** |
| 16:30.38 | *** join/#utah [-] (n=dataw0lf@66.219.227.114) |
| 16:30.43 | maquis | Hhhhh: he's just saying that that interpretation of what you're saying is the only one that seems to make your comment make sense |
| 16:31.00 | sjansen | Hhhhh: A n00b shouldn't call other n00bs n00bs. |
| 16:31.12 | Hhhhh | well, he interpreted wrong |
| 16:31.26 | Hhhhh | I don't think they're those old mainframes |
| 16:31.31 | Jayce^ | looking at the growth in data warehousing alone, I see growth in supercomputing.. |
| 16:32.04 | sjansen | Growth in supercomputing a no brainer. |
| 16:32.06 | Jayce^ | large companies are needing to move from just plain 'big computer systems' to true lower end supercomputers.. |
| 16:32.08 | Hhhhh | Jayce^, I worked with the Novell datacenter, I know about data warehousing |
| 16:32.26 | Jayce^ | heck, just look at the changes SOX has required of many of us |
| 16:32.29 | Hhhhh | I didn't say computers have to be big to be super |
| 16:32.34 | levi | Hhhhh: Um, I'm /in the business/ of supercomputers. The market is growing. |
| 16:32.50 | levi | Hhhhh: I don't know on what basis you think you can disagree with me. |
| 16:32.58 | maquis | Hhhhh: http://www.customflix.com/207420 |
| 16:33.07 | sjansen | Distributed computing is a form of super computer. You can't deny that distributed computing is growing, can you? |
| 16:33.09 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 16:33.09 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 16:33.14 | Hhhhh | the basis that you say FORTRAN and Cobol are not dead languages |
| 16:33.21 | maquis | quote from page: "Host Rick Chavez explores the explosive growth of supercomputing, using real-world examples of how the technology is being utilized by leading researchers, scientists, engineers and educators from the United States, Canada, England and Sweden." |
| 16:33.25 | Jayce^ | levi, maybe if your hostname included the company you worked at, it would help |
| 16:33.41 | Hhhhh | sjansen, i'm very aware of distributed computing |
| 16:33.46 | sjansen | Cobol and fortran are being used and maintained. New standards for each are being released. |
| 16:33.49 | levi | Jayce^: I'm behind a firewall and I don't get to set it, so I can't do anything about it. |
| 16:34.22 | Jayce^ | heck, there is Cobol.Net |
| 16:35.02 | levi | I guess Hhhhh's definition of a dead language is one that he doesn't pay attention to. |
| 16:35.24 | Jayce^ | levi, lisp is even deader then :-p |
| 16:35.26 | sjansen | I don't pay attention to VB. I wish that were enough to kill it. |
| 16:35.30 | maquis | they have a couple cobol developers' forums listed online for this year |
| 16:35.36 | Jayce^ | speaking of which, Roberto should be presenting on Lisp next month.. |
| 16:35.38 | maquis | sjansen: me too! |
| 16:36.05 | levi | Jayce^: Well, if he wants to think it's dead, that doesn't make it any deader in fact than it was before. |
| 16:36.23 | levi | I've already gone enough rounds with him on Lisp; no need to bring /that/ up again. |
| 16:37.20 | levi | Jayce^: What about Lisp is he presenting? |
| 16:37.37 | *** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@65.89.233.46) |
| 16:37.55 | Jayce^ | haven't totally rounded it out, but I was pushing for an intro + why it's good to learn a lisp language to help your favorite language |
| 16:37.57 | Hhhhh | hehe, gotta love Lisp users, they're different, and they're proud of it ;) |
| 16:38.02 | Jayce^ | as well as find those interested in learning more |
| 16:38.06 | Hhhhh | anyways |
| 16:38.24 | fozzmoo | ~lart sjansen |
| 16:38.26 | Jayce^ | so I wouldnt' see you learning anything :) but probably helping others with interest |
| 16:38.28 | levi | Hhhhh: Gotta love Linux users, they're different, and they're proud of it ;) |
| 16:38.51 | levi | Jayce^: I've got a class during Plug meetings now, so unfortunately I can't attend. :( |
| 16:38.59 | graphyx | Gotta love open source hackers, they're different, and they're proud of it. |
| 16:39.10 | Jayce^ | it's just once a month... :-p |
| 16:39.20 | graphyx | you would rather go to class than PLUG? |
| 16:39.39 | graphyx | Come on. come up with a real excuse like being a scout master of the 11 year old scouts.. ;) |
| 16:39.42 | sjansen | So I've been relearning Python lately. I've finally realized how I decide if I like a language. It must be 1) simple & 2) consistent. |
| 16:39.46 | levi | graphyx: I would rather get a good enough grade to have my tuition reimbursed. :P |
| 16:39.53 | vontrapp | what's at plug? |
| 16:39.56 | graphyx | levi: I am totally kidding. |
| 16:40.09 | fozzmoo | ~lart sjansen |
| 16:40.10 | *** join/#utah amcnabb (n=amcnabb@byu293733wks.byu.edu) |
| 16:40.11 | sjansen | Java: consistent, but not simple. Python: simple, but not consistent. Ruby: simple and consistent. |
| 16:40.15 | levi | Aside from that fact, I'd /much/ rather be at Plug than this particular class! |
| 16:40.26 | fozzmoo | ~lart sjansen |
| 16:40.40 | levi | sjansen: What lack of consistency do you see in Python? |
| 16:40.51 | dataw0lf | sjansen: Aye, I'd like to hear the lack as well |
| 16:41.00 | sjansen | somethings are objects, others aren't |
| 16:41.09 | dataw0lf | Examples please. |
| 16:41.10 | sjansen | len(string) but string.upper() |
| 16:41.16 | fozzmoo | The code isn't consistently left-flushed. :-) |
| 16:41.28 | fozzmoo | ~lart sjansen |
| 16:41.33 | dataw0lf | len in and of itself is an object |
| 16:41.37 | sjansen | and some other idiosyncracies |
| 16:41.47 | dataw0lf | Do you mean the consistency on whether something is a method or a builtin function? |
| 16:41.51 | dataw0lf | because EVERYTHING is an object. |
| 16:41.56 | Jayce^ | vontrapp, this month, BSD for Linux users |
| 16:42.19 | fozzmoo | Plus, a very, very special NUPM. |
| 16:42.22 | sjansen | dataw0lf: no, in Ruby EVERYTHING is an object |
| 16:42.27 | Jayce^ | fozzmoo, you'll be ready? :) |
| 16:42.31 | fozzmoo | heh. |
| 16:42.35 | sjansen | everything in Python might be an object, but they don't all act like it |
| 16:43.15 | dataw0lf | sjansen: That's because Python isn't a 'purists' language. Of which I'm eternally grateful. |
| 16:43.19 | sjansen | I've also realized that by rights, I probably shouldn't like perl. It is neither simple nor consistent. |
| 16:43.32 | fozzmoo | It's "natural" tho. :) |
| 16:43.39 | maquis | http://thedailywtf.com/forums/45729/ShowPost.aspx |
| 16:43.43 | maquis | painful |
| 16:43.51 | maquis | oh so very painful!!! |
| 16:44.24 | maquis | that programmer should be shot... |
| 16:44.27 | maquis | or drawn and quartered |
| 16:44.29 | maquis | or something |
| 16:45.23 | levi | sjansen: Probably because you learned it and became comfortable with the idiosyncracies before you got old and crotchety. ;) |
| 16:46.04 | Jayce^ | levi, but has sjansen ever *not* been crotchety?? |
| 16:46.33 | sjansen | I don't know. I haven't used perl for some time. Lately I've suspected I've been avoiding it. Maybe I'm finally admitting the truth to myself. |
| 16:46.59 | Jayce^ | sjansen, just take a peek at mod_perl again... you'll be hooked |
| 16:47.09 | levi | Jayce^: I didn't think he was particularly crotchety back when I first knew him. You know, he used to tote around a PowerBook! He was happier then. ;) |
| 16:47.15 | fozzmoo | sjansen should have come to the Damian presentation. |
| 16:47.18 | *** part/#utah phinux (n=phinux@iocane.cs.byu.edu) |
| 16:47.31 | Jayce^ | levi, true, I remember that old pbook, still had it when I first met him |
| 16:47.34 | sjansen | I'm waiting until mod_parrot makes using ruby instead an option. |
| 16:47.41 | levi | The Damian presentation was great fun, but I didn't make me want to touch Perl 5 at all. :) |
| 16:47.54 | Jayce^ | fozzmoo, agreed.. too bad he couldn't see the truth |
| 16:47.55 | fozzmoo | levi: Yeah- got me all excited about Perl6 |
| 16:48.05 | levi | s/I/it/ |
| 16:48.12 | Jayce^ | levi, true, didn't make me want to touch perl 4 either :) |
| 16:48.44 | fozzmoo | I am constantly running into idiots who are still using Perl4-style CGI crap. |
| 16:49.08 | Jayce^ | fozzmoo, not just CGI, but using the ' too |
| 16:49.41 | goozbach | ~lart fozzmoo |
| 16:49.50 | fozzmoo | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:49.53 | Jayce^ | but yeah, just the other day had a guy telling me how much better php was, because it didn't use cgi, and in perl you had to hard code all your headers and stuff... |
| 16:50.01 | fozzmoo | Oh wow. |
| 16:50.28 | fozzmoo | goozbach: Hey. |
| 16:50.34 | Jayce^ | finally got my treo at work |
| 16:50.38 | fozzmoo | Iodynamics is, unfortunately, working on a PHP project for a client right now. |
| 16:50.55 | sjansen | ~console fozzmoo |
| 16:50.57 | ibot | ACTION gives fozzmoo the consolation moose |
| 16:50.57 | fozzmoo | Jayce^: Congrats. |
| 16:51.03 | Jayce^ | fozzmoo, you see they have a Catalyst::Plugin for the PHP tool |
| 16:51.15 | levi | I wonder if Parrot Common Lisp will end up being finished to a somewhat ANSI-compliant state. |
| 16:51.15 | Jayce^ | the one bricolage introduced? |
| 16:51.29 | fozzmoo | Jayce^: No. |
| 16:51.32 | Jayce^ | levi, can always join the lists and contribute :) |
| 16:51.47 | Jayce^ | fozzmoo, yeah, so you can do catalyst, and in your view, have php that can callback into the perl.. |
| 16:52.04 | fozzmoo | That's... just... sick. |
| 16:52.12 | levi | Jayce^: I could, if I had the time. |
| 16:52.19 | Jayce^ | levi, I hear ya there.. |
| 16:53.00 | Jayce^ | did you see the perl.com article last week talking about why so many of the perl6 devs are learning "strange" languages, such as forth, haskell, etc? short, but interesting.. |
| 16:53.08 | levi | Yup. |
| 16:53.50 | Jayce^ | Damian had been talking about that for a while when he was here, since he was originally from a lisp background, before having to teach C++ |
| 16:53.56 | Jayce^ | he strongly dislikes C++ |
| 16:54.18 | levi | I have conflicted feelings about C++. |
| 16:55.21 | levi | A deep disgust for it, combined with an admiration of the crazy things you can do with it. |
| 16:55.40 | sjansen | Anybody that dislikes C++ can't be entirely bad. |
| 16:55.42 | Jayce^ | so, kinda the way you feel about perl then ? ;-p |
| 16:57.13 | levi | Well, sort of. I like C++'s excuses for its problems better than perl's, but it's the same general feeling. |
| 17:01.15 | fozzmoo | sjansen: Do you see that I am PM'ing you? |
| 17:01.53 | fozzmoo | (and have been for a while with no response.) |
| 17:02.15 | fozzmoo | (and didn't jump in on that "crochety" topic.) |
| 17:02.30 | sjansen | fozzmoo: You're not seeing my responses? |
| 17:02.42 | fozzmoo | Nope. Haven't seen a one. |
| 17:02.55 | sjansen | ~lart |
| 17:02.57 | sjansen | ~lart irssi |
| 17:03.26 | sjansen | Unfortunately, I need to start class again. |
| 17:03.30 | fozzmoo | K. |
| 17:03.33 | sjansen | We'll have to solve this mystery later. |
| 17:04.05 | goozbach | barg! |
| 17:04.17 | goozbach | time to start class again here as well |
| 17:12.08 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=fungus@firebat.aros.net) |
| 17:21.28 | vontrapp | does ubuntu have some kind of firewall by default? |
| 17:21.45 | sjansen | vontrapp: nope |
| 17:22.33 | vontrapp | von@dernhelm ~$ nc localhost 2000 |
| 17:22.33 | vontrapp | localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1] 2000 (sieve) : Connection refused |
| 17:23.45 | levi | Huh. The last Cobol standard was approved by ISO in 2002, and the next one is scheduled for 2008. |
| 17:24.20 | *** part/#utah fungus (n=fungus@firebat.aros.net) |
| 17:25.02 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 17:26.48 | levi | Aspect-Oriented Cobol: http://homepages.cwi.nl/~ralf/AspectCobol/ |
| 17:27.00 | levi | Strange stuff. |
| 17:27.07 | levi | Well, that's enough Cobol for me. |
| 17:28.22 | sjansen | for Ifor I in $(cat /proc/net/ip_tables_names); do iptables -t $I -L; done |
| 17:28.34 | vontrapp | i figured it out |
| 17:28.56 | vontrapp | i had to do nc -l -p 2000 |
| 17:29.02 | vontrapp | the -p was non-obvious |
| 17:29.05 | levi | vontrapp: Did you get my descriptions of left fold and right fold yesterday? |
| 17:29.07 | sjansen | Oh, sure, the EASY answer. |
| 17:29.10 | vontrapp | first time i've used nc |
| 17:29.21 | vontrapp | levi, yeah |
| 17:29.37 | levi | OK, good. |
| 17:29.57 | levi | It would be nice if there were unified names for those operations across languages. |
| 17:30.59 | vontrapp | bah, linksys wrt doesn't forward to an address unless it's static |
| 17:31.10 | vontrapp | why can't it just believe me that that's the address i want |
| 17:32.08 | levi | sjansen: In case you're not familiar with it, vontrapp was trying to find the inject method in Ruby but didn't know if it existed or what its name was. It is a Good Method. |
| 17:32.10 | *** join/#utah AgoraCart (n=AgoraCar@71-36-80-230.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 17:33.04 | *** join/#utah mindjuju (n=mindjuju@216.20.238.225) |
| 17:35.33 | *** part/#utah mindjuju (n=mindjuju@216.20.238.225) |
| 17:39.44 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (n=zaphod@137.190.155.164) |
| 17:41.40 | *** part/#utah linuxalien (n=zaphod@137.190.155.164) |
| 17:47.01 | mrpull | exit |
| 17:53.18 | *** join/#utah SpecialZ (n=chatzill@128.187.236.52) |
| 17:53.48 | maquis | ~lart SpecialZ |
| 17:54.10 | maquis | ~lart SpecialZ |
| 17:54.21 | maquis | ~bart SpecialZ |
| 17:54.22 | ibot | ACTION forces SpecialZ to eat her shorts |
| 17:54.38 | SpecialZ | ~segfault maquis |
| 17:54.40 | ibot | ACTION executes maquis and -9teLdR/;+#Segmentation fault. |
| 17:58.36 | tensai | ~lart drupal xml-rpc remote execution exploit |
| 17:59.38 | *** join/#utah Hhhhh (n=cristoba@c-67-169-244-47.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 18:02.41 | *** join/#utah amcnabb (n=amcnabb@128.187.155.171) |
| 18:05.12 | suifur | ~lart english paper |
| 18:05.38 | suifur | ~lart english paper |
| 18:05.42 | suifur | good |
| 18:40.52 | *** join/#utah ftgoggi (n=ft@71-36-77-168.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 18:41.05 | tensai | maquis: you should set up ssh public keys you know. fewer wrong passwords that way. |
| 18:41.45 | ftgoggi | anyone interested in forming a linux group in slc? hands on daily computing? |
| 18:42.11 | Jayce^ | there is a linux group in SLC you could work with.. |
| 18:42.27 | ftgoggi | the one at the U? dead |
| 18:42.28 | tensai | they're even the first one listed in the topic |
| 18:42.39 | Jayce^ | sllug.org |
| 18:42.43 | Jayce^ | far from dead |
| 18:42.44 | tensai | don't let Mecworks hear you say that |
| 18:42.57 | Jayce^ | one of the first lugs in the nation |
| 18:43.03 | ftgoggi | i mean some serious linux |
| 18:43.32 | ftgoggi | and one of the first internet nodes |
| 18:44.34 | Jayce^ | if you have something you want to see anything there, just talk to mecworks or brandon, they'd love some help |
| 18:44.42 | ftgoggi | i am looking for some people - i have computers and $1000 a month for rent - going in with others to get a big programmers haven - a nice big place |
| 18:48.05 | ftgoggi | i make a mean cup of coffee at 3AM |
| 18:50.02 | ftgoggi | anyone interested in meeting tonight? |
| 18:50.44 | Newsome | So, what you're looking for is other geeks to share an apartment with? Just like back in college? |
| 18:51.13 | ftgoggi | not to relive your memories newsome - the future is here |
| 18:51.35 | Jayce^ | don't think your wife would go for it Newsome ... |
| 18:51.40 | vontrapp | how does one create a simple forward rule in ferm or iptables to forward incoming <port> to <addr>:<port> |
| 18:52.35 | Newsome | Jayce^: I don't think so either. Besides, we've got enough computers already (gasp...did I just say that???) |
| 18:52.48 | Jayce^ | Newsome, go wash your mouth out with soap |
| 18:52.50 | vontrapp | enough! how! |
| 18:53.03 | ftgoggi | i've got 35 |
| 18:53.06 | Jayce^ | maybe if I cleaned out the main rack I could get some new ones at my place |
| 18:53.27 | Jayce^ | I've got some room now, just because I moved boxes here to work (mmmm, datacenter) |
| 18:53.44 | ftgoggi | not including the #3 computer from wicat in 1979 |
| 18:54.28 | Jayce^ | oh yeah? |
| 18:54.42 | Jayce^ | I gotta get rid of soren's old Alpha sometime.. |
| 18:54.42 | levi | Some of us already get plenty of hands-on daily computing in this cool thing called a 'job'. We even get paid lots of money for it! |
| 18:54.46 | Newsome | it only spent like 18 months in the basement |
| 18:54.48 | Newsome | yeah, some guy up in SLC who collects |
| 18:55.01 | Jayce^ | ask him if he wants a nice dec box |
| 18:55.11 | Newsome | I can ask. |
| 18:55.21 | ftgoggi | i don't want desk jockeys - i want REAL programmers |
| 18:55.35 | Jayce^ | has the 'declassified' stickers on it from the labs |
| 18:55.40 | ftgoggi | ever hear of APL? |
| 18:55.42 | levi | ftgoggi: Um, some guys who have 'jobs' actually do REAL programming too. |
| 18:55.47 | levi | Yes. |
| 18:56.00 | ftgoggi | you desk jockeys are to tired after work and just watch tgv |
| 18:56.03 | ftgoggi | tv |
| 18:56.15 | Jayce^ | um, riiiight |
| 18:56.32 | Jayce^ | I like getting paid to work on GPL software myself.. |
| 18:57.48 | levi | I like getting paid to hack on embedded systems code all day. Then I code for fun in the evening, when I'm not doing other fun things, like spending time with my wife, or doing some of the occasional upkeep necessary to maintain the house. |
| 18:58.35 | levi | Or other interesting things like reading non-computer-related books, watching movies, or going on long bike rides. |
| 18:58.44 | Newsome | I know a guy in VA who would probably want it, but stuff like that is pretty tough to transport so far |
| 18:58.58 | Newsome | are you suggesting we quit our jobs and come do programming all night? |
| 18:59.07 | Jayce^ | don't forget long walks in the rain levi, and Piña colada :) |
| 18:59.49 | goozbach | for those of you who care, I found the solution to my video card issue: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=132267 |
| 18:59.56 | goozbach | ~praise redhat for making their bugzilla googleable |
| 18:59.57 | ibot | All hail redhat for making their bugzilla googleable! |
| 19:00.07 | goozbach | ~lart redhat for making their bugzilla googleable |
| 19:00.21 | ftgoggi | Newsome - yes - i have something that really needs some people who know what it is really like to program with cards and cram 100 mbytes of data files through a 64k memory |
| 19:00.46 | levi | What APL has to do with anything, I don't know. |
| 19:01.08 | ftgoggi | that is what my patent was written in |
| 19:02.00 | ftgoggi | i rewrote it in pascal because i don't like c |
| 19:02.33 | levi | I see. So, you're actually an old guy who's looking for cheap programming labor from asocial nerds like yourself. |
| 19:02.36 | ftgoggi | c is a dirty language |
| 19:02.47 | *** join/#utah JoshH (i=josh@josh.xmission.com) |
| 19:03.04 | levi | I don't like C either, but that's no reason to rewrite it in Pascal. You could have at least used a more modern Wirth language. |
| 19:03.25 | ftgoggi | no all the programming is done - i would like brainstormers and people who understand what i have and to make it a viable entity |
| 19:04.05 | ftgoggi | freepascal IS the world's best computer language for multidemensional arrays besides APL |
| 19:04.53 | ftgoggi | dimensional |
| 19:05.11 | levi | Well, okay. I suppose you could be right, since I don't know about support for multidimensional arrays in too many languages. |
| 19:06.17 | levi | What makes freepascal's multi-dim arrays better than, say, Modula-2's? Just implementation efficiency? |
| 19:08.03 | ftgoggi | i learned algol first and modula 2 seemed a bit 'unusable' - but it could do it - i never went into it further since pascal does what i need very simply |
| 19:08.47 | RyanE | i.e. 'World's Best Computer Language for X' == 'What I know'. |
| 19:09.09 | levi | RyanE: Indeed. |
| 19:09.12 | ftgoggi | i know EVER computer language except COBOL and c/c++ and perl |
| 19:09.22 | levi | ftgoggi: Hah. Liar. :) |
| 19:09.40 | AgoraCart | know mumps? |
| 19:09.56 | ftgoggi | mumps - i said a computer language |
| 19:09.57 | Newsome | BrainF*@k? |
| 19:10.00 | Newsome | space? |
| 19:10.09 | AgoraCart | it is a computer lang |
| 19:10.10 | Jayce^ | PASM |
| 19:10.33 | ftgoggi | brainfuck is not as good as apl |
| 19:10.46 | Newsome | you don't say... |
| 19:11.00 | levi | Slate? Joy? Factor? |
| 19:11.10 | levi | Miranda? |
| 19:14.12 | goozbach | moo? |
| 19:14.26 | goozbach | ook? |
| 19:14.45 | goozbach | qbasic? |
| 19:16.01 | ftgoggi | even the language of RNA |
| 19:16.06 | levi | Heh. |
| 19:16.21 | Newsome | Wow, that's quite a knowledge of computer languages. |
| 19:16.23 | goozbach | ~troll |
| 19:16.24 | ibot | i heard troll is a race on some muds; a guy under a bridge: an annoying robot; a port scanner, or somebody faking being clueless to be shown the One Linux Way so he can argue against it for his psychology thesis on linux advocates, or an employee of trolltech, or at http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2001/7/27/51233/2979 or ... |
| 19:16.53 | ftgoggi | levi and newsome - how about you meet me for a coffee - ? |
| 19:16.54 | goozbach | ~troll Newsome |
| 19:16.55 | ibot | ACTION hereby declares Newsome a troll |
| 19:17.08 | goozbach | ~troll ftgoggi |
| 19:17.09 | ibot | ACTION hereby declares ftgoggi a troll |
| 19:17.11 | levi | I guess we're all going to have to bow before ftgoggi's obviously superior intellect and knowledge. Let's give up our jobs and families to live in his programming commune and learn at his feet! |
| 19:17.13 | Newsome | heh |
| 19:17.14 | goozbach | slip of the fingers |
| 19:17.26 | goozbach | sorry Newsome. |
| 19:17.26 | levi | ftgoggi: What do you want to discuss? |
| 19:17.56 | ftgoggi | yup - a programming commune - i can only dream |
| 19:18.32 | RyanE | *gasp* -- a communist! :) |
| 19:18.42 | levi | I'm afraid you'll have to keep dreaming. Some of us are interested in having somewhat balanced lives. |
| 19:19.26 | ftgoggi | all the programming is done |
| 19:20.23 | levi | The programming is never done. |
| 19:21.14 | Newsome | Well, I _am_ looking for a new job. ...but, how much can you offer... does it include health benefits? Retirement plan? Can someone work from home? |
| 19:22.29 | ftgoggi | did employee number 2 at microsoft ever ask that question? |
| 19:22.32 | Jayce^ | Newsome, you looking at sysadmin stuff, or dev, or *shudder* management |
| 19:22.33 | sjansen | levi: thanks, now I feel all special 'cause I know what that means |
| 19:23.35 | RyanE | ftgoggi: something tells me the next Microsoft isn't writing their stuff in Freepascal. |
| 19:23.39 | sjansen | ~attack ftgoggi |
| 19:23.40 | ibot | ACTION grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing ftgoggi |
| 19:23.44 | levi | sjansen: It's too bad he wasn't talking about left and right fold operations instead of DASDs. |
| 19:24.16 | sjansen | ftgoggi: How dare your besmirk the holy name of C!!! |
| 19:24.28 | RyanE | *now* sjansen wakes up... |
| 19:24.33 | sjansen | C is the precious. The One, the True language. |
| 19:24.55 | levi | sjansen: And that makes you... gollum? The very picture of sane rationality. :) |
| 19:25.00 | sjansen | RyanE: Some of us work occasionally. ;-) |
| 19:25.14 | Jayce^ | levi, it is sjansen..... |
| 19:25.14 | ftgoggi | ryane -w ith all due respect that is kinda rediculous |
| 19:25.28 | RyanE | ftgoggi: my point *exactly*. |
| 19:25.47 | Newsome | Jayce^: I'm looking at sysadmin/IT stuff in the Chicago area |
| 19:25.50 | levi | I don't think there is a next Microsoft. |
| 19:26.02 | levi | At least not in the computing field. |
| 19:26.04 | Jayce^ | Newsome, Chicago?! |
| 19:26.15 | Newsome | Well #2 at Microsoft may not have asked these questions, but did he have a wife with medical needs? children? |
| 19:26.28 | Jayce^ | lesse, what specialities of software development do we have represented here.. |
| 19:26.31 | Newsome | How many #2's have there been that _haven't_ turned out to be Microsoft? |
| 19:26.35 | ftgoggi | there is levi - there is |
| 19:26.37 | Jayce^ | RyanE does household automation devices |
| 19:26.37 | levi | Mmmmm, exploding cement truck: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8812815865076974007&q=mythbusters |
| 19:26.48 | levi | ftgoggi: And you're the #1 employee there, right? |
| 19:26.54 | Jayce^ | levi does *something* with clusters (not sure which parts you are on, sorry) |
| 19:27.08 | Jayce^ | sjansen and goozbach don't do anything functional (they teach) |
| 19:27.14 | Jayce^ | oh, emcnabb with them |
| 19:27.23 | Jayce^ | TimRiker used to do embedded |
| 19:27.25 | levi | Jayce^: I work on the cluster management hardware, writing firmware for it. |
| 19:27.55 | Jayce^ | what other genres are represented? |
| 19:28.09 | ftgoggi | bioinformatic and enzyme design |
| 19:28.15 | levi | Jayce^: Several students. |
| 19:28.30 | RyanE | @Jayce^: *Home* Automation, actually. |
| 19:28.57 | RyanE | sjansen: Don't like sparring with mental midgets? :) |
| 19:29.11 | Jayce^ | RyanE, meh, whatever :-p |
| 19:29.31 | levi | I study programming languages in my spare time, which I have too little of these days. |
| 19:29.53 | Newsome | not to mention ibot's vast programming experience |
| 19:29.56 | sjansen | RyanE: Doesn't sound like a mental midget. Sounds short sighted and over confident. |
| 19:30.08 | sjansen | Although that could describe another person I know... |
| 19:30.14 | ftgoggi | how many patents do you have/ |
| 19:30.26 | levi | ftgoggi: What has that got to do with anything? |
| 19:30.30 | sjansen | But I like to think I display playful recognition of my own block headed nature. |
| 19:30.48 | Jayce^ | ok, show of hands, how many people snorted milk (or $beverage) out their nose at that comment???? |
| 19:30.54 | levi | ftgoggi: My name is on a couple of patent applications, though I dunno if they'll be approved. |
| 19:31.17 | sjansen | levi: that's because you haven't created anything a unique as the swing |
| 19:31.35 | Jayce^ | sjansen, hey, that *sideways* swing |
| 19:31.41 | ftgoggi | levi are you in or near slc? |
| 19:31.50 | levi | ftgoggi: Yes. |
| 19:31.54 | sjansen | levi: perhaps you should file on something creative like a system for resolving human readable names to computer useable addresses |
| 19:32.15 | levi | ftgoggi: But I'm pretty certain I'm not interested in working with you right now. |
| 19:32.24 | Jayce^ | sjansen, dont' get me started on those, we're a big enough target that we have to fight them all the time |
| 19:32.25 | RyanE | or maybe an really unique ordering system whereby it stores your info, so that next time you visit, you only have to click once. |
| 19:32.38 | sjansen | ftgoggi: It comes down to fact that you can't waltz it here add start saying "I should be respected" without backing it up with concrete evidence. |
| 19:33.10 | sjansen | ftgoggi: You didn't start off on very good footing when you indicated you hadn't even done enough research to find out if there was a LUG in the SLC area. |
| 19:33.18 | RyanE | and... "I'm looking for people who would rather program than breathe and would like to come live in a commune" |
| 19:33.24 | goozbach | I should be respected... |
| 19:33.31 | RyanE | or at least mocked. |
| 19:33.45 | goozbach | if for anything else the insane ammounts of caffiene I ingest |
| 19:33.47 | levi | I've got some pretty nonstandard views on computing, but I've had to fight hard to get respect here. ;) I'm still not sure how much I've got, either. :P |
| 19:33.48 | sjansen | ftgoggi: Relying on statements like "I have a patent" are also harmful because we all know how easy it is to get a useless patent. |
| 19:34.16 | sjansen | ftgoggi: Now if you told us what made this patent special, it might help. It'd make you sound a little too full or yourself, but at least it'd get you some respect. |
| 19:34.17 | goozbach | sjansen just traded me patent portfolios straight across the other day |
| 19:34.22 | graphyx | Yeah, I just filed a pattent on a process for finding the optimal hoppath on an hopscotch board. |
| 19:34.31 | graphyx | I didn't find any prior work.. so I think I am good. |
| 19:34.41 | graphyx | but not really... |
| 19:34.56 | graphyx | that would be a waste of money.. But I am sure you could patent it. |
| 19:35.23 | sjansen | ftgoggi: For real respect, put in some time here. Make some useful comments. Don't act like me. |
| 19:35.44 | sjansen | ~steal graphyx's hopscotch patent |
| 19:35.46 | ibot | ACTION grabs graphyx's hopscotch patent and gives it to sjansen |
| 19:36.14 | goozbach | or learn to drink me under the table. |
| 19:36.21 | goozbach | it'll be difficult |
| 19:36.28 | goozbach | I've got lots of practice |
| 19:36.45 | graphyx | Arrrggs sjansen, I'll get you and your little dog too!!! |
| 19:37.16 | graphyx | Take me for an example I have been here for like 4 months and I don't know if anyone even pays attention to what I say... |
| 19:37.23 | ftgoggi | i'm not asking for any respect - first off i said that the sllug was dead - there wasn't even a september meeting |
| 19:37.58 | levi | ftgoggi: Well, no one's going to want to live in your programming commune if they don't respect you. |
| 19:38.06 | graphyx | see look how bad it is.. no one even acknowledged that I just said what I said. =P |
| 19:38.30 | goozbach | somebody hear something? |
| 19:38.47 | ftgoggi | http://www.sllug.org/ |
| 19:39.01 | goozbach | http://centricle.com/ref/css/filters/?highlight_columns=true |
| 19:39.17 | graphyx | ~ridicule goozbach |
| 19:39.18 | ibot | ACTION drops goozbach in a tank of pink paint and herring |
| 19:39.39 | levi | goozbach: Handy. |
| 19:40.21 | goozbach | levi: very, no? |
| 19:40.48 | levi | goozbach: I could have used that when trying to get my new page to render properly in IE. |
| 19:41.10 | levi | Actually, I have some fixing left to do, but it's not on the front page so I haven't got to it yet. |
| 19:42.21 | RyanE | ftgoggi: I think anyone that states that they know *every* computer language (except 3!) is pretty much *begging* for respect. |
| 19:43.14 | ftgoggi | the nonsense about how easy it is to get patents is just that nonsense - they might have given out 4 or 5 quesionable ones - but for the most part patents are important |
| 19:43.19 | goozbach | I only support firefox/mozilla and opera on my personal website, but had I know about that site for my previous professional website devlopment project it would have helped |
| 19:43.49 | ftgoggi | ryan - i collect computer languages |
| 19:44.20 | levi | ftgoggi: How many collectors have complete collections? |
| 19:45.09 | ftgoggi | levi - that made me smile |
| 19:45.12 | ftgoggi | thanks |
| 19:45.39 | levi | ftgoggi: Why did it make you smile? |
| 19:45.50 | goozbach | levi: my weezer collection is complete, as far as I am aware. |
| 19:46.06 | goozbach | every known recorded weezer song |
| 19:46.11 | levi | goozbach: Do you have all the bootleg concert recordings? |
| 19:46.14 | ftgoggi | cause i am missing svs fortran manual |
| 19:46.27 | Jayce^ | my friend litereally has *every* dead can dance, including *every* concert recording |
| 19:47.24 | levi | Jayce^: Collections of closed sets of items are easier to complete. Still, an impressive achievement. |
| 19:47.36 | goozbach | levi: yup |
| 19:47.52 | goozbach | all of them I'm aware of |
| 19:48.08 | Jayce^ | levi, yeah, he was doing well enough as a bootleg site the band contacted him and asked him to be the official one :) |
| 19:48.19 | levi | goozbach: Ahh, but there's the kicker! What if there are some you're not aware of? :) |
| 19:48.31 | goozbach | then it's not complete |
| 19:48.40 | levi | goozbach: An unqualified statement of completeness is a dangerous one to make. |
| 19:48.45 | goozbach | but it's complete to the full extent of my knowlege. |
| 19:48.55 | goozbach | levi: my point exactly |
| 19:49.05 | levi | goozbach: My point, too. |
| 19:49.27 | goozbach | ok then geez, quit agreeing with me :) |
| 19:49.33 | goozbach | lets not start this again. |
| 19:49.36 | Jayce^ | that's the extent of my erasure & DM collections... which get's tough with their b-sides |
| 19:50.15 | ftgoggi | there is real life where you gain respect and then there is the imaginary world of IRC - isn't there |
| 19:50.19 | goozbach | ohh yeah, I've still got to sync up Jayce^'s DM collection. |
| 19:50.29 | ftgoggi | good luck all |
| 19:50.35 | goozbach | IRC isn't imaginary... |
| 19:50.40 | levi | Heh. |
| 19:50.46 | goozbach | no!! it can't be!!! |
| 19:50.47 | levi | Aww, he left. |
| 19:50.59 | RyanE | *chuckle* |
| 19:51.01 | goozbach | cause if it was, then I don't exist! |
| 19:51.07 | goozbach | *poof* |
| 19:51.17 | levi | goozbach disappears in a puff of logic. |
| 19:51.25 | RyanE | Something tells me I'm not getting the 'Commune Invite'. Dang. |
| 19:51.59 | levi | RyanE: I got invited to coffee! |
| 19:52.10 | Jayce^ | levi, lucky you :) |
| 19:52.12 | RyanE | yeah, in the commune, you lucky devil! |
| 19:52.28 | levi | I must be smart, or impressive, or something. |
| 19:52.29 | levi | Must have been those patent applications. |
| 19:52.36 | RyanE | or he thinks you'll drink the Kool-Aid. |
| 19:52.45 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 19:53.09 | goozbach | kool aid!!! |
| 20:01.46 | suifur | ~lart english papers |
| 20:02.03 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 20:04.42 | levi | He's got to be in his 40s, at least, to have done real programming in Algol or APL. |
| 20:06.24 | RyanE | levi: I'd guess older to have done APL. We had APL in CS330 in '89 or '90, and even then, no one did 'real' programming in it... |
| 20:06.35 | RyanE | I'm almost in my 40s... |
| 20:06.47 | RyanE | wow, when did I get older than dirt? |
| 20:06.50 | levi | RyanE: Well, it was used heavily internally in IBM, so it probably lasted longer there. |
| 20:07.12 | levi | And I'm pretty sure it was largely a mainframe thing. |
| 20:08.30 | levi | There are still active implementations of the APL concept living on, like J and K, but they're probably different enough to not be APL. |
| 20:09.39 | levi | RyanE: Algol is even older than APL, though. And was more fully superseded by other languages, like Pascal. |
| 20:10.35 | levi | The legacy of Algol is quite a bit stronger, though, even though the language itself isn't used anymore. |
| 20:11.00 | RyanE | well, as someone *else* who seems to collect languages, I'll bow to your superior knowledge. |
| 20:12.26 | levi | APL was defined in 1962 (though the research that led up to it had gone on for a while earlier). Algol was defined in the mid 1950s. |
| 20:13.44 | levi | Interestingly, Backus normal form was invented to describe Algol 58. |
| 20:14.01 | sjansen | ftfoobar reminded me of that UVSC professor that thought he knew everything about Unix, therefore he knew everything about Linux, but couldn't configure his printer in Linux so he quit PLUG in a huff declaring Windows superior |
| 20:14.52 | levi | Heh. |
| 20:15.08 | RyanE | levi: isn't it Backus-Naur form? Or is there also a Backus-Normal form? |
| 20:15.35 | levi | RyanE: Backus-Naur form was invented to describe Algol 60, with the help of a guy named Naur. :) |
| 20:16.01 | RyanE | groovy |
| 20:16.17 | RyanE | man, this is just like being in a commune. groovy. :) |
| 20:17.00 | levi | sjansen: I'm sorry. It's better this way. |
| 20:17.38 | lars-ut | groovy... that reminds me of Ash in Army of Darkness when the he gets his new hand and crushes a wine goblet with it. Groovy. |
| 20:21.56 | emcnabb | sjansen, I remember that guy |
| 20:24.30 | sjansen | "Ruby on Rails is pretty amazing, I think. MVC, automatic data storage, nice clean URLs. It makes me think of J2EE with 95% less code and 100% less XML." |
| 20:24.47 | levi | Yay for lack of XML! |
| 20:25.24 | levi | I applaud RoR for bringing sanity back to the masses, or at least a growing percentage of them. |
| 20:25.33 | sjansen | ~seen tensai |
| 20:25.40 | ibot | tensai <n=tensai@kite.zmonkey.org> was last seen on IRC in channel #utah, 1h 42m 56s ago, saying: 'don't let Mecworks hear you say that'. |
| 20:27.24 | RyanE | levi: do you really think *anything* can bring sanity to the masses? |
| 20:27.49 | RyanE | the masses will just write gobs of horrible Ruby code, instead of gobs of horrible PHP code. |
| 20:27.54 | levi | RyanE: Well, greater degrees of it. For a time. |
| 20:28.16 | sjansen | RyanE: The difference being that it is harder to write bad code in Ruby than it is in PHP. |
| 20:28.32 | levi | RyanE: The Ruby culture is better at supporting good code and discouraging bad, I think. |
| 20:29.03 | sjansen | Witness Python. There's alot of great Python code out there. Being whitespace based isn't enough to achieve that, though. |
| 20:29.25 | sjansen | Python has a culture that educates its users. It has gobs of well written example code to learn from. |
| 20:29.29 | levi | PHP was born from a guy who wanted to make web page templates, and grew into a full programming language by accretion of hacks. |
| 20:29.33 | sjansen | PHP on the other hand... |
| 20:30.58 | RyanE | agreed. PHP is incredibly sloppy. That's why it's been adopted by the masses. |
| 20:31.16 | levi | I don't think the sloppiness is what makes it attractive. |
| 20:31.38 | *** join/#utah mheath (i=mheath@c-67-161-213-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 20:31.47 | levi | It's the fact that it's got a bunch of built-in tools to get its primary task done. |
| 20:31.52 | sjansen | PHP has greate documentation. It has a good collection of standard libraries. It's fast. That's why PHP is so popular. |
| 20:32.03 | RyanE | probably not. The base question is: what makes PHP attractive to the masses? OK, you got it before I finished the question (both of you). |
| 20:32.16 | RyanE | will Ruby have the great documentation and built-in tools to attract the masses? |
| 20:32.46 | sjansen | Ruby documentation is finally improving. It's still not very good, though. |
| 20:33.22 | levi | Ruby is descended from a well-designed general purpose language to begin with, and has had lots of smart software engineer type working on it now. Ruby on Rails adds the tools to make web programming easy. |
| 20:33.24 | sjansen | Ruby libraries are growing, but they're taking a path closer to Perl and CPAN. |
| 20:33.42 | sjansen | That's a disadvantage to PHP where alot was available by default. |
| 20:33.54 | RyanE | i.e. namespace segmentation and user-defined modules written outside the language, right? |
| 20:34.17 | sjansen | RyanE: yup |
| 20:35.33 | levi | By bringing sanity to the masses, I was mostly referring to Java web development rather than PHP web development, though. |
| 20:35.52 | RyanE | for some reason (and it's not Rails), I've got a strong desire to learn Ruby. |
| 20:35.53 | levi | As Java web frameworks seem to require insane amounts of XML. |
| 20:36.05 | sjansen | And insane amounts of code. |
| 20:36.07 | RyanE | oh, I avoid Java (web dev and otherwise) like the plague. |
| 20:36.33 | sjansen | Any framework that requires a code wizard to generate boilerplate code is broken. |
| 20:36.50 | RyanE | i.e. *any* dev. env. by MicroSoft... |
| 20:37.12 | levi | sjansen: Hmm. Ruby on Rails does a lot of code generation, though it's from configuration files rather than a wizard. |
| 20:37.26 | levi | sjansen: Or, I should say, that's my understanding of what it does. |
| 20:37.54 | elg | yes, there is a lot of code generation |
| 20:37.59 | elg | but only as much as you want |
| 20:38.09 | elg | and most of it makes files that look like this: |
| 20:38.11 | sjansen | levi: It doesn't generate much code. Most everything is handled by introspection. |
| 20:38.12 | levi | Not that I'm opposed to code generation. |
| 20:38.22 | elg | class Something < ActionModel::Base |
| 20:38.22 | elg | end |
| 20:38.30 | levi | As long as it's done and maintained sanely. |
| 20:38.30 | elg | code generation is good |
| 20:38.34 | sjansen | The generation it does is basically just framework. |
| 20:38.39 | elg | exactly |
| 20:38.58 | levi | Lisp macro-style code generation is ideal, I think. |
| 20:38.59 | elg | er, that's ActionRecord |
| 20:39.10 | elg | everything lisp is ideal, you think. ;-) |
| 20:39.11 | levi | Or perhaps Scheme macro-style. |
| 20:39.26 | sjansen | elg: No, complicated code generation is not good. What RoR does is so simple I don't consider it code generation. |
| 20:40.10 | elg | no, it's code generation, in its original sense |
| 20:40.20 | elg | you're right about complicated code generation |
| 20:40.29 | sjansen | I also don't mean lisp style generation with code the creates code. I mean wizards that generate the same stupid boilerplate over and over again. |
| 20:40.36 | levi | elg: Well, what I mean is that you only ever maintain the generator function (the macro) and the compiler takes care of generating the needed code and compiling it without ever requiring you to see the generated code unless you need to for debugging. |
| 20:41.09 | elg | I see. that is a good approach. |
| 20:41.35 | elg | sjansen: rails is mostly doing boilerplate code, just by its virtue the boilerplate is simplistic |
| 20:41.37 | sjansen | Okay, so basically we all mean automatic creation of code is okay. JSEE style scattering code across dozens of files is stupid. |
| 20:41.42 | levi | elg: And the Scheme way is similar, but it prevents generated code from interacting with the environment by re-using names that are defined outside the macro. |
| 20:41.56 | elg | now you're getting parenthy on me. :) |
| 20:42.23 | sjansen | ~paren elg |
| 20:42.24 | RyanE | irssi users: is there someway to clear the irssi buffer, or to mark a spot in a conversation? I clear the screen, but then when I go to 'go-make-some-money' mode, when I come back, I can't tell where I was following...? |
| 20:42.36 | levi | elg: Dylan has an interesting macro system, and is not fully-parenthesized. :) |
| 20:42.38 | elg | RyanE: you can pgup once |
| 20:42.46 | elg | and it will stay there forever until you pgdn to the end |
| 20:42.54 | elg | you can clear the screen with /clear |
| 20:43.03 | elg | and you might like to check out /help lastlog |
| 20:43.31 | RyanE | elg: Yeah, I clear the screen, but that doesn't help much, but the single PgUp might do it for me. thx. |
| 20:43.46 | levi | I tried out irssi while sshing to my home server, and the documentation for it seems lacking. |
| 20:43.56 | sjansen | ibot paren $elg is <reply> ((((((((((((((($elg))))))))))))))) |
| 20:43.58 | ibot | okay, sjansen |
| 20:44.02 | sjansen | ~paren elg |
| 20:44.03 | ibot | (((((((((((((((elg))))))))))))))) |
| 20:44.03 | elg | levi: I was actually referring to strange lispy abstract concepts/words like "interacting with the environment" and "names defined outside..." |
| 20:44.22 | RyanE | seems more appropriate to paren levi, no? |
| 20:44.27 | levi | elg: Well, they are important concepts! :) |
| 20:44.28 | RyanE | ~paren levi |
| 20:44.29 | ibot | (((((((((((((((levi))))))))))))))) |
| 20:44.35 | elg | levi: yes, but online help is abundant. you just have to figure out what to ask for |
| 20:44.38 | *** join/#utah jnbek (n=jnbek@c-67-166-97-223.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 20:44.51 | levi | elg: Doing metaprogramming without understanding those concepts is likely to bite you. |
| 20:44.57 | elg | I agree they are important concepts. I also think they are overused in lispy languages, causing confusion where there needn't be any. |
| 20:45.13 | RyanE | elg: so you'd trade power for safety? |
| 20:45.23 | RyanE | or clarity? |
| 20:45.23 | elg | nope |
| 20:45.45 | levi | I don't think they're overused in general. |
| 20:46.11 | elg | maybe I have a skewed perception since my primary exposure to scheme was in 330 |
| 20:46.25 | elg | where obviously those concepts were in heavy use |
| 20:52.55 | levi | Probably. CS330 isn't exactly a gentle introduction to Scheme. |
| 20:54.14 | levi | And given the isomorphism between closures and objects, I don't think the concepts themselves are the barrier to understanding. It's that most discussion of them is of the academic variety, and thus geared towards precice definitions rather than friendliness to the uninitiated. |
| 20:54.29 | elg | all I know is that my head was still swimming at the end of the class, and not long after I tried ruby, and I remember thinking "OH, THAT'S what a ___ is all about, and why it's useful!" where ___ is something like closure |
| 20:55.36 | levi | I remember my head was swimming while I was in the class, too. I distinctly remember trying to wrap my head around curried functions, and failing miserably. |
| 20:55.47 | RyanE | Mmmm... Curry... |
| 20:56.07 | levi | The curry bowl at Teriyaki Stix is not very impressive. |
| 20:56.28 | levi | But it is cheaper than the teriyaki bowl. |
| 20:57.14 | levi | elg: The CS330 text is not an easy one, and whoever was teaching it when I took it didn't illuminate it very well. |
| 20:57.44 | mheath | Hmmm |
| 20:57.47 | levi | Oops. s/precice/precise/ |
| 20:58.02 | mheath | I might end up going to WSU+UoU instead of USU |
| 20:58.33 | mrpull | anybody know of a host that can do a free http redirect from www.mybrotherinlawsdomain.com to some.other.domain.com? |
| 20:58.36 | mheath | I'm trying to decided between going to college for a year, then enlisting and finishing college in the Navy (in which case I'd got o USU for the year) |
| 20:58.37 | mheath | and |
| 20:59.22 | mheath | Finishing up my bachelors now, and doing ROTC in college to help pay for it (and get me a commision as an officer in the Navy) |
| 20:59.43 | mheath | In which case I'd go to WSU, but several of my classes would be at UoU (UoU and WSU share the Naval Science classes/program) |
| 21:00.36 | Jayce^ | WSU? (is that weber state here?) or washington state? |
| 21:01.28 | Newsome | sounds like Washington State to me |
| 21:01.46 | levi | I would guess Weber State. |
| 21:02.01 | levi | Since mheath lives up north. |
| 21:02.05 | mheath | WSU |
| 21:02.07 | mheath | Weber :) |
| 21:02.12 | Jayce^ | yeah, probably weber, just weird to see a different WSU |
| 21:02.16 | *** join/#utah tensai (n=tensai@207.141.37.66) |
| 21:02.17 | mheath | Gah, that made no sense |
| 21:02.25 | mheath | I'm graduating in the middle of the year |
| 21:02.46 | mheath | "You need a satement of early graduation from your principal, saying that you have all classes completed and are allowed to graduate ahead of your class." |
| 21:03.12 | levi | mheath: I'd go for ROTC and finishing school at school in one block. |
| 21:03.31 | mheath | "I'm in the middle of several classes right now......I'll have them finished before I graduate early, but I don't have them finished yet. Can I still get that letter?" |
| 21:03.41 | mheath | "NO. You have to have them all completed first." |
| 21:03.56 | mheath | What good does that do you?! |
| 21:04.13 | mheath | I'd have to have had all my classes done way before I wanted to attend college |
| 21:04.57 | Jayce^ | mheath, it's catch-22.. I had a roomate that did the same thing |
| 21:05.18 | mheath | I can't attend Spring semester at weber then.... |
| 21:05.20 | Jayce^ | funny as heck to see the guy walking around in a '95 lettermans jacket, in '94 |
| 21:05.36 | mheath | Because I'll be doing highschool courses (ones that I need to graduate) up to a week before then |
| 21:05.43 | *** join/#utah amcnabb (n=amcnabb@byu290859wks.byu.edu) |
| 21:06.16 | mheath | USU said that was OK, and that they'd work with me on that |
| 21:06.33 | mheath | As long as I was officially graduated and elligible by the time I was to start classes |
| 21:06.48 | mheath | Weber has some anal technicallity that stops me from doing that though. |
| 21:07.14 | levi | elg: http://www.gwydiondylan.org/books/dpg/db_329.html <- Dylan macros |
| 21:07.22 | mheath | You don't even need a highschool diploma to go to WSU! They accept a GED! |
| 21:07.29 | levi | elg: They are hygenic, like Scheme macros. |
| 21:07.46 | mheath | It makes no sense for them to not even consider accepting me until they're 100% certain I've graduated. |
| 21:09.41 | levi | elg: Not quite a full lisp macro system, though. |
| 21:11.15 | Jayce^ | mheath, that's kinda the point of a GED |
| 21:11.40 | mheath | Jayce^: I know. |
| 21:11.59 | mheath | I'm graduating early. I'm currently finishing up a couple of online classes and several highschool classes needed to do this. |
| 21:12.14 | mheath | I will have these classes done BEFORE I would start up at Weber State |
| 21:12.30 | mheath | I will be graduated from highschool BEFORE I would start up at Weber State |
| 21:13.12 | mheath | However, they won't even consider me for admittance unless I have a leter from the principal of my highschool saying that I have ALREADY completed everything. |
| 21:14.26 | RyanE | mrpull: everydns.net |
| 21:17.21 | elg | welcome to the world of university red tape |
| 21:17.31 | elg | superseded only by the world of corporate red tape |
| 21:19.07 | mrpull | RyanE: I'll check it out. THX. |
| 21:19.10 | levi | elg: Don't forget government red tape. |
| 21:20.43 | elg | mheath: wait until you get disenrolled from all your classes because accounts receivable didn't put your payment in the right cubbyhole |
| 21:28.40 | levi | elg: Heh, I just realized I have a hardcopy of that book now. |
| 21:44.20 | bonez39 | how do I run ls to sort by date..i.e., to show th most recently modified file to least |
| 21:45.02 | goozbach | anyone done a yum update on FC3 lately? |
| 21:45.10 | goozbach | just how man packages are there? |
| 21:47.02 | graphyx | man: that's a lot of packages... |
| 21:47.16 | elg | bonez39: -t |
| 21:47.23 | elg | ls -lt | head |
| 21:51.27 | levi | elg: Good luck! |
| 21:51.58 | dataw0lf | or just ls -ltr (most recently updated last) |
| 22:27.43 | lars-ut | Happy Catan to me! http://boardgames.herlo.org/?q=node/7 |
| 22:28.05 | lars-ut | we'll see how this variant turns out... |
| 22:32.34 | *** join/#utah xbmodder_gaim (i=nobody@dsl092-015-136.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 22:32.37 | xbmodder_gaim | hey |
| 22:34.50 | *** join/#utah xbmodder_firefox (i=nobody@dsl092-015-136.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 22:35.21 | xbmodder_firefox | hey |
| 22:37.37 | *** join/#utah bonez41 (n=aint@c-67-166-77-14.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 22:45.50 | xbmodder_firefox | bonez41: sup? |
| 22:50.29 | bonez41 | just working at home on a few things..I could REALLY be productive if I could figure out how to see my office machine desktop.....at home here....with X11 forwarding, or however it's done..... |
| 22:50.50 | bonez41 | I'd love to figure that out...but not sure if I need some super fast machine, or if it can be done with modest hardware..... |
| 22:51.05 | bonez41 | I run debian...3.1... at both ends....have dsl at work, cable at home..... |
| 22:51.53 | xbmodder_gaim | why don't you use VNC? |
| 22:52.04 | xbmodder_gaim | VNC is really simple and easy! |
| 22:52.14 | *** join/#utah bzob (n=bzobrist@nat.myfamilyinc.com) |
| 22:52.26 | xbmodder_gaim | tightvnc is the best flavor according to my opinion |
| 22:52.31 | xbmodder_gaim | bzob: sup? |
| 22:53.17 | bzob | sup! |
| 22:53.33 | xbmodder_gaim | laggy bot? |
| 22:53.57 | xbmodder_firefox | bzob: or not. |
| 22:54.08 | bonez41 | xbmodder, is VNC what you use? |
| 22:55.04 | bzob | nope! |
| 22:55.59 | xbmodder_firefox | bonez41: tightvnc |
| 22:56.19 | xbmodder_firefox | bonez41: vnc over SSH |
| 22:56.59 | bonez41 | I have SSH working..I have keys set up so that I can ssh to home and work, back and forth, without sending my password |
| 22:57.24 | bonez41 | xbmodder_firefox, and it works well? even on slower older equipment? |
| 22:57.55 | xbmodder_firefox | 1.4 Ghz |
| 22:57.57 | bonez41 | let's say I have an application, a database.....at work...could I look through it and manipulate it....in a vnc screen, as if I were there.....albeit, a bit slower? |
| 22:59.09 | xbmodder_firefox | sure -- Can this application be accessed over the network? |
| 22:59.56 | bonez41 | well, the application i need to look at is a windows app..I run it using win4lin on my linux box.....it's my patient database.....it's fast..uses the old Btrieve record manager....lots of records and finds them fast.... |
| 23:00.38 | xbmodder_firefox | bonez41: I'd say TightVNC is the best way to go |
| 23:02.30 | xbmodder_firefox | unless you can go to MySQL or a MySQL database connector |
| 23:04.11 | bonez41 | when you mention MySQL....are you saying.....to run MySQL over the net connection, to tap into Lytec, or just to do remote? |
| 23:04.53 | goozbach | bonez41: put a vnc server on your box you want to access from home |
| 23:05.16 | goozbach | then tunnel the vnc port over your ssh connection |
| 23:05.43 | bonez41 | goozbach, ok, so just install vnc at work, and then tunnel to it from home? in simple terms? |
| 23:05.55 | goozbach | then use a vnc viewer on your home box, pointing at your tunneled vnc port |
| 23:06.19 | goozbach | bonez41: is the box you can ssh into the one running the app you want to see? |
| 23:06.21 | xbmodder_firefox | goozbach: vncviewer -via bonez41@bonez.home.com |
| 23:07.01 | xbmodder_firefox | goozbach: vncviewer -via bonez41@bonez.home.com 192.168.1.100 |
| 23:07.09 | bonez41 | goozbach, yes.....it is |
| 23:07.23 | goozbach | does that -via switch do ssh encription? |
| 23:07.55 | xbmodder_firefox | goozbach: automatic SSH tunneling |
| 23:08.08 | goozbach | cool |
| 23:08.14 | goozbach | I just RTFMed |
| 23:08.19 | xbmodder_firefox | lol |
| 23:08.22 | bonez41 | I already have vncviewer installed here..and at work..I think.... |
| 23:08.42 | goozbach | bonez41: on the remote machine, which distro are you running? |
| 23:08.50 | bonez41 | what's the 192.168....at the end there? what's it there for? |
| 23:09.01 | bonez41 | goozbach, debian 3.1 on both this end and that end |
| 23:09.54 | bonez41 | I enter vncviewer, it gives me a prompt, asking the name of the server.... |
| 23:09.54 | goozbach | bonez41: not sure abt debian, see if it has the command vncserver |
| 23:09.59 | bonez41 | this is where I always get confused..... |
| 23:10.08 | bonez41 | it has vncserver too |
| 23:10.08 | xbmodder_firefox | bonez41: at the end there |
| 23:10.09 | *** join/#utah findlay (n=justin@208.187.196.229) |
| 23:10.09 | bonez41 | yeah |
| 23:10.38 | bonez41 | xbmodder_firefox, could I ssh to work, run vncserver & to close out and then connect to it that way? |
| 23:11.18 | goozbach | bonez41: just a second |
| 23:11.25 | goozbach | I'm gonna walk you through it |
| 23:11.26 | bonez41 | ok |
| 23:11.44 | goozbach | do you have a display manager running on the remote box? |
| 23:11.55 | goozbach | XDM GDM or KDM? |
| 23:13.46 | bonez41 | I run gdm....gnome2 |
| 23:13.52 | bonez41 | on both ends |
| 23:14.36 | goozbach | ok, there's two ways we can do this: |
| 23:14.46 | bonez41 | ok..... |
| 23:14.49 | goozbach | one, each time you log in you get a new session, |
| 23:15.12 | goozbach | or you leave one sesson running and then dis&re-connect to it at will. |
| 23:16.03 | goozbach | which do you prefer? |
| 23:16.03 | bonez41 | I'd like something i can connect to and disconnect at will |
| 23:16.03 | goozbach | ok |
| 23:16.03 | bonez41 | but is the other more secure? |
| 23:16.03 | *** join/#utah xbmodder_firefox (i=nobody@dsl092-015-136.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 23:16.03 | xbmodder_firefox | hey |
| 23:16.04 | goozbach | bonez41: both are the same |
| 23:16.04 | bonez41 | either way is fine..... as long as it works... |
| 23:16.05 | bonez41 | ok, whicheveris simpler for you to help me with |
| 23:16.08 | goozbach | security wise |
| 23:16.22 | xbmodder_firefox | bonez41: you do know -compression and -quality? |
| 23:16.28 | goozbach | bonez41: I eat this stuff up, so for me it's abt the same eitherway |
| 23:16.51 | goozbach | xbmodder_firefox: let me help him get his server setup then we'll worry abt the client side |
| 23:16.52 | bonez41 | I know what compression and quality both are, but not with vnc... |
| 23:17.04 | bonez41 | I assume each is a switch..a parameter, right? |
| 23:17.05 | goozbach | yup |
| 23:17.19 | goozbach | ok, SUPER easy answer: |
| 23:17.30 | xbmodder_firefox | man vncviewer |
| 23:17.37 | goozbach | run the command: vncserver |
| 23:17.48 | goozbach | ONCE on the remote machine |
| 23:18.13 | goozbach | it asks you to insert a password |
| 23:18.16 | goozbach | do so |
| 23:18.35 | bonez41 | ok...I am sshing to remote now...hold on... |
| 23:19.00 | maquis | wha?!!! |
| 23:19.09 | maquis | they removed vncserver from the cs dept computers? |
| 23:19.12 | findlay | maquis: don't interrupt |
| 23:19.21 | bonez41 | dang..thought I had it installed on remote..but apt-getting it now |
| 23:19.33 | goozbach | ok no prob |
| 23:19.35 | maquis | findlay: shut up |
| 23:19.42 | findlay | maquis: fine |
| 23:19.45 | goozbach | I'm fixing my own problems as well right now |
| 23:20.20 | bonez41 | ok, it's done now, ran vncserver, entered password twice |
| 23:20.36 | bonez41 | it leaves with that name of the server.....is that what I now connect to? |
| 23:21.12 | bonez41 | ok...... |
| 23:21.12 | goozbach | yes, go ahead and connect from the local machine with the -via switch |
| 23:21.49 | goozbach | should be something like: vncviewer -via <remote host> 127.0.0.1:<display> |
| 23:22.13 | goozbach | where display is the number you saw from the server output |
| 23:22.18 | findlay | maquis: how's your latest coding assignment? |
| 23:22.21 | bonez41 | oh, so a command line, not with the gui dialogue that pops up? |
| 23:22.30 | goozbach | yup |
| 23:22.36 | maquis | findlay: it's going to be coming along shortly |
| 23:22.56 | maquis | just have to get through test #3 for the week, then i can do that, and then deal with test #4 |
| 23:23.29 | maquis | having to go through everything in deadline order so that it'll all get done |
| 23:28.25 | vontrapp | quick! how can i truncate an array to x elements (ruby) |
| 23:28.33 | goozbach | bonez41: that work fo you? |
| 23:29.08 | findlay | vontrapp has an x array of rubies? |
| 23:29.29 | vontrapp | an array of x+n rubys, and i want to take n rubies out |
| 23:29.43 | bonez41 | goozbach, I tried the vncviewer -via fyrenice.com 127.0.0.1:1 and that just flashes the help screen...doesn't DO anything.... |
| 23:30.02 | goozbach | ok, that's fine |
| 23:30.11 | bonez41 | so I tried just vncviewer fyrenice.com:1 and that just gives a blank line, as if it's waiting for something else.... |
| 23:30.16 | bonez41 | not sure it's doing anything either |
| 23:30.35 | bonez41 | Tue Oct 4 17:30:20 2005 |
| 23:30.36 | bonez41 | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:31.03 | bonez41 | that's the end result ...when I hit CTRL-C to stop it......it never presented a window or anything..didnt' appear to do anything |
| 23:31.09 | goozbach | you now need to edit the ~/.vnc/xstartup file on the remote machine |
| 23:32.02 | bonez41 | OK......gladly... |