| 00:04.16 | goozbach | blargfooblarg++ |
| 00:21.54 | elg | hehhe. "eWeek is reporting that claims of OpenSSH not being an 'enterprise-class product' by SSH Communications, the creators of SSH" |
| 00:22.10 | elg | um, yeah, that's why every enterprise in the world uses openssh and nobody uses your product |
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| 01:33.37 | sjansen | Unreal! |
| 01:34.53 | sjansen | I'm watching a documentary abuout this giant ship that loads humongous cargo (like an entire oil rig or destroyer) by filling ballast tanks to submerge itself under its cargo. |
| 01:36.35 | goozbach | I'm watching the braves play live 24 rows from homr plate. |
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| 02:14.49 | Goshen | You are in irc from a ball game? |
| 02:17.03 | elg | amazing, isn't it? |
| 02:18.27 | emcnabb | treo + ssh = endless possibilities |
| 02:23.05 | *** join/#utah jsmith (n=jsmith@smithfam.dsl.xmission.com) |
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| 02:27.05 | elg | jsmith: is it mounted on the mantel yet? |
| 02:27.12 | elg | ~dict mantel |
| 02:27.24 | elg | that always looks wrong to me for some reason |
| 02:27.26 | jsmith | elg: No, not yet. |
| 02:27.39 | jsmith | elg: Too many people wanting to flip through it still... |
| 02:27.55 | elg | :) |
| 02:28.22 | elg | I can only imagine. I had 4 pages in XML Hacks so I have a little bit of the feeling. |
| 02:28.32 | jsmith | How's NM? |
| 02:28.38 | elg | But a whole book, with O'Reilly... |
| 02:28.40 | elg | It's fun |
| 02:28.41 | elg | and hot |
| 02:28.54 | elg | midterms next week, that'll be fun |
| 02:28.56 | jsmith | Tried my little Japanese place yet? (If it's still around?) |
| 02:29.02 | elg | and the real litmus test |
| 02:29.29 | elg | so far the classes are not hard, but I'm afraid the hard part will be the tests and I'll have a rude awakening. hoping not |
| 02:29.44 | elg | no, i haven't. what place was it again? |
| 02:29.45 | jsmith | Yeah, the first midterms are always the worst. |
| 02:30.10 | jsmith | elg: I want to say it was named Yamamoto, but I think that's wrong. I think it starts with an M. |
| 02:30.59 | elg | Heh, "Yamamoto" reminds me of "Hello, Moto!" |
| 02:31.05 | elg | maybe the place is called Motorola? |
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| 02:33.56 | elg | matsuharu? |
| 02:34.08 | elg | there is a yamato in el paso |
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| 02:50.58 | jsmith | elg: I honestly don't remember... it's been to long. |
| 02:51.27 | jsmith | All I know is that I drove in from Alamogordo, and it was on the right-hand side of an intersection. |
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| 03:08.02 | jsmith | elg: If my directions are any good, it was north of Best Buy. |
| 03:08.06 | jsmith | (a couple of miles) |
| 03:12.13 | mheath | jsmith: question for you |
| 03:12.21 | mheath | (Sorry I keep bugging you with so many USU-related questions) |
| 03:12.22 | jsmith | mheath: Sure... |
| 03:12.25 | jsmith | no problem |
| 03:12.29 | jsmith | (Go Aggies!) |
| 03:12.53 | mheath | I got an e-mail response from their recruiter, saying that it would be fine for me to submit my application before the deadline and get my ACT scores to them after the deadline.... |
| 03:13.07 | jsmith | Told you... |
| 03:13.08 | mheath | Just that they couldn't admit me without ACT scores |
| 03:13.22 | jsmith | (They're famous for working with people) |
| 03:13.46 | mheath | But he also said, that if I was "Serious about USU", they have a generic copy of the ACT test that you can take at their testing center.... |
| 03:13.52 | mheath | which counts (for USU only) as an ACT score |
| 03:14.30 | mheath | What should I do, go up and take that test? Or just take the ACT and get it to them later? |
| 03:14.54 | *** join/#utah synic (n=synic@c-67-177-16-249.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 03:15.19 | mheath | (By "Generic copy", I mean another test thats similar in difficulty, content, and format) |
| 03:15.47 | jsmith | mheath: It doesn't hurt to take them both -- they'll probably take the higher of the two. |
| 03:15.57 | jsmith | mheath: (As long as they aren't charging you to take it) |
| 03:17.02 | mheath | jsmith: I'm sure they are |
| 03:17.27 | mheath | I think I'll just take the ACT |
| 03:17.34 | mheath | jsmith: do you think its worth going on a tour of USU? |
| 03:17.54 | mheath | I'd have to get out of school (since they only offer the tours on weekdays >.>)....wondering if its worth the time and gas to drive up there. |
| 03:19.22 | jsmith | mheath: Definitely worth going on the tour. (That's what convinced me) |
| 03:25.25 | mheath | I'm really nervous+excited at the idea of starting college in a few months =\ |
| 03:27.20 | elg | i love how the church can come so close to doing something cool on their website and then really botch it up |
| 03:27.48 | elg | like audio scriptures, but behind a thousand clicks and then in windows media format only |
| 03:27.52 | elg | http://lds.org/broadcast/scriptureaudio/book/1,5358,77-7,00.html |
| 03:28.03 | elg | they even have a "Select Player" thing, but only one choice |
| 03:29.49 | jsmith | elg: Is LDSAudio still giving way all the mp3s of the scriptures? |
| 03:30.10 | elg | let's find out |
| 03:30.45 | mheath | I'll be one of the youngest guys on campus, too =\ |
| 03:31.33 | tensai | elg: they've got them in mp3 somewhere. I think I've got a copy of them all somewhere. |
| 03:32.40 | elg | if/when I get an mp3 player I'll want that. i could write a script to pipe them through mplayer if I have to, but if you've got them lying around, don't delete them. ;-) |
| 03:32.44 | mheath | er |
| 03:32.46 | elg | burn them to CD or something |
| 03:33.01 | mheath | Someones scanning me |
| 03:33.18 | mheath | Making ident requests... |
| 03:33.30 | mheath | Maybe its the IRC server, but I've never had one do that after I get connected. |
| 03:34.03 | elg | quick, everyone portscan mheath! |
| 03:34.53 | mheath | Ah, nevermind. Got disconnected from another IRC server I'm on and didn't notice. |
| 03:35.11 | tensai | you can never be too paranoid. it's so much fun! |
| 03:36.01 | *** join/#utah synic (n=synic@pdpc/supporter/student/synic) |
| 03:42.34 | mheath | hmmm |
| 03:43.20 | mheath | "If currently a senior in high school, please list all 12th grade English, math, science and history courses you will complete before attending USU" |
| 03:43.43 | mheath | Only classes I'm taking right now, then? |
| 03:44.31 | tensai | anything you will complete before you begin at USU. so if you'll be taking classes next semester, list those two |
| 03:45.00 | RyanE | likely anything taken the senior year, regardless of whether it was before now or after now, but not on your transcript. |
| 03:45.08 | mheath | Oh, I get it |
| 03:45.22 | mheath | they're probably looking for courses of interest that won't be on my transcript, because I haven't completed them yet. |
| 03:45.28 | RyanE | yep |
| 03:45.28 | tensai | exactly |
| 03:45.38 | TheDiff | haha, college applications |
| 03:45.39 | TheDiff | sucker |
| 03:45.50 | mheath | Meh. This looks pathetic |
| 03:45.59 | mheath | only thing I'm taking right now that falls into that category is AP Calculus |
| 03:46.00 | RyanE | worked out well for me. (ok, decades ago...) :) |
| 03:46.19 | RyanE | no other english, science or history? |
| 03:46.30 | jsmith | You'll make it... if you're in AP Calculus, you'll make it. |
| 03:46.51 | mheath | jsmith: meh, my grades aren't the best |
| 03:47.19 | mheath | and I'm having a *bit* of problems with AP Calculus. Keeping my grades up, just not understanding the material as well or as easily as I did in previous math classes. |
| 03:47.30 | mheath | (My GPA = 3.1) |
| 03:47.36 | TheDiff | its not the calculus thats hard, its the trig |
| 03:48.17 | jsmith | mheath: You'll do fine... |
| 03:48.53 | mheath | yeah, I'm sure I will |
| 03:48.59 | mheath | now days, public colleges are pretty much |
| 03:49.23 | mheath | if (act > X and gpa > X) accept(); |
| 03:51.02 | RyanE | I think it's been that way for quite some time... |
| 03:51.59 | TheDiff | yeah |
| 03:52.05 | TheDiff | well |
| 03:52.25 | TheDiff | some colleges include the if (!caucasian && !male) |
| 03:53.01 | RyanE | and if (!born(instate)) tuition += ransom; |
| 03:53.06 | TheDiff | yeah |
| 03:53.09 | TheDiff | that happened to me |
| 03:53.43 | mheath | God, I'm a geek. I'm expressing college acceptance procedures in code.. |
| 03:53.46 | jsmith | TheDiff: Actually, colleges are starting to swing the other way on the male/female thing. Most are now looking for more male applicants. |
| 03:54.00 | mheath | :P |
| 03:54.09 | TheDiff | yeah, it just depends on the school and their policies |
| 03:54.19 | TheDiff | its just that white males with good grades are a dime a dozen |
| 03:54.31 | maquis | jsmith: perhaps in some majors |
| 03:54.58 | tensai | RyanE: yeah, but the ransom is fair since tuiton is subsidized by state taxes |
| 03:55.12 | mheath | Are there any limitations in what you can have an emphasis in? |
| 03:55.26 | mheath | Like, if I was doing Business Administration, can I graduate with an emphasis in Computer Science? |
| 03:56.29 | TheDiff | tensai: it depends on how much out of state tuition is comparitively |
| 03:56.37 | TheDiff | here, tuition is about $4000 |
| 03:56.51 | TheDiff | for out of staters, you pay that + $220 per unit |
| 03:56.58 | TheDiff | and typically you take 16 units for a full load |
| 03:57.08 | TheDiff | it gets ridiculous |
| 03:58.07 | RyanE | so it nearly doubles it. |
| 03:58.19 | mheath | hmm |
| 03:58.22 | jsmith | maquis: Most colleges will let you in, even if you don't declare a major :-) |
| 03:58.47 | mheath | "A tax return for Puerto Rico, Guam, American Samoa, the U.S. Virgin Islands, the Marshall Islands, the Federated States of Micronesia, or Palau" |
| 03:58.58 | mheath | Puerto Rico, Guam, etc. have to pay US taxes? |
| 03:59.04 | tensai | I'm sure it gets expensive. but how much does the college get from the state though? |
| 03:59.37 | tensai | mheath: didn't you know? we tried the empire thing once. |
| 03:59.56 | RyanE | yes, residents of US territories pay taxes. |
| 04:00.01 | maquis | jsmith: yes... but for example, for me applying to Harvey Mudd, with a declared major in CS, there's a distinct advantage |
| 04:00.16 | maquis | i'm sure that even applying someplace like byu, if there's a declared major of CS, there's an advantage |
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| 04:00.58 | mheath | Er |
| 04:00.58 | TheDiff | tensai: not much with the new gov |
| 04:01.04 | mheath | They don't have a seat in congress, though |
| 04:01.10 | TheDiff | especially when there are like 30 state universities |
| 04:01.14 | mheath | Whatever happened to "Taxation without representation"? |
| 04:01.22 | tensai | TheDiff: what university is it? |
| 04:01.26 | mheath | That was one of the main reasons WE declared independance |
| 04:01.28 | TheDiff | Cal Poly |
| 04:01.37 | mheath | seems rather irconic for us to be taxing others without giving them representation now. |
| 04:01.58 | TheDiff | oh, redo the calculation |
| 04:02.01 | TheDiff | its 4000 for a year |
| 04:02.09 | mheath | "The worksheet does not include all questsions asked on the FAFSA, just the ones that you might not readily know." |
| 04:02.11 | TheDiff | but $220 per unit, 16 units, 3 quarters a year |
| 04:02.17 | mheath | ..... |
| 04:02.22 | mheath | "Student's Last Name" |
| 04:02.35 | mheath | You wouldn't readily know your last name? |
| 04:03.38 | RyanE | ok, I take it back... I don't think they are taxed by the Federal Government... |
| 04:03.40 | TheDiff | 4000 instate vs. 14560 out of state |
| 04:03.43 | mheath | Agh |
| 04:03.57 | RyanE | Residents of the Commonwealth pay no federal income tax on locally generated earnings, but Puerto Rico government income-tax rates are set at a level that closely parallels federal-plus-state levies on the mainland. |
| 04:04.01 | RyanE | http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0113949.html |
| 04:04.07 | RyanE | learn something new every day... hmmmm.... |
| 04:04.13 | mheath | Want to know what the most expensive college in the state is? :P |
| 04:04.23 | TheDiff | in what state? |
| 04:04.27 | mheath | Utah |
| 04:04.27 | TheDiff | haha |
| 04:04.39 | mheath | Westminster College |
| 04:04.49 | xbmodder | hey |
| 04:04.50 | mheath | $19,700 in tuition for two semesters |
| 04:04.51 | TheDiff | supposedly U of CO - boulder had the highest out of state tuition vs. instate tuition |
| 04:04.55 | xbmodder | sup? |
| 04:04.57 | TheDiff | thats a private university though |
| 04:05.00 | TheDiff | right? |
| 04:05.10 | mheath | A lot, considering that second place is University of Utah @ $2,298 |
| 04:05.21 | TheDiff | haha |
| 04:05.29 | TheDiff | still its a private univeristy |
| 04:05.29 | RyanE | UofU is 2298 for ONE or TWO semesters? |
| 04:05.30 | mheath | TheDiff: well, yeah.. |
| 04:05.35 | TheDiff | and thats cheap for a private university |
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| 04:05.39 | TheDiff | most are like 40,000 now |
| 04:05.41 | mheath | TheDiff: but this chart also compares a lot of other private universities in utah |
| 04:05.46 | RyanE | the 20k is for two, I suspect the 2300 is for one. |
| 04:05.50 | RyanE | still, 5 to 1 ratio. |
| 04:05.56 | TheDiff | yeah |
| 04:06.04 | jsmith | maquis: Point well taken (w/ high latency to boot) |
| 04:06.07 | TheDiff | wahtever, college cost doesnt really matter |
| 04:06.09 | TheDiff | you take out the loans |
| 04:06.16 | TheDiff | you get a job |
| 04:06.16 | TheDiff | you pay them back |
| 04:06.18 | TheDiff | its a good investment |
| 04:06.29 | jsmith | TheDiff: Yeah, but the cost determines how long you spend paying them back. |
| 04:06.31 | RyanE | assuming you actually study something that will make money. :) |
| 04:06.33 | maquis | jsmith: :) |
| 04:06.39 | TheDiff | haha |
| 04:06.45 | maquis | jsmith: that's the only explanation for my getting accepted at hmc |
| 04:06.52 | mheath | BYU is private |
| 04:06.53 | RyanE | get a nice liberal arts degree in something that doesn't pay, the loans cost the same... |
| 04:07.05 | mheath | and it only cost $3,410/$5,116 for 2 semesters |
| 04:07.11 | RyanE | but BYU tuition is subsidised similar to state colleges |
| 04:07.31 | RyanE | whereas private colleges are not necessarily subsidized. |
| 04:07.47 | mheath | USU is $3,672 :) |
| 04:08.25 | mheath | (tuition) |
| 04:08.35 | mheath | I'll be paying around $7,000 / year for room+board |
| 04:08.49 | mheath | er |
| 04:08.54 | mheath | For everything, including room+board |
| 04:09.08 | xbmodder | your parents helping you? |
| 04:09.27 | mheath | xbmodder: No. |
| 04:09.48 | mheath | I have a college fund my dads been putting money into, $4,000, but thats all. |
| 04:10.21 | RyanE | getting out for 7k * 4.5 or 5 is not that bad, really. |
| 04:10.33 | mheath | Wow, this FAFSA pre-application worksheet is confusing |
| 04:10.53 | mheath | I hate it when they try to make it look like they're being all clear, simple, and concise, but its really maddingly confusing. |
| 04:15.05 | levi_ | mheath: Welcome to the world. :) |
| 04:15.31 | mheath | Like this |
| 04:15.44 | TheDiff | yeah |
| 04:15.48 | TheDiff | college crap is crap |
| 04:16.03 | TheDiff | yay bureaucracy! |
| 04:16.08 | mheath | "Will you, the student, have a high school diploma or GED before you begin the 2005-2006 school year?" |
| 04:16.24 | mheath | I'll have a highschool diploma before I start in on the 2005-2006 COLLEGE school year |
| 04:16.29 | TheDiff | yes |
| 04:16.31 | TheDiff | thats what they mean |
| 04:16.35 | mheath | (When I start up at USU in spring 2006) |
| 04:16.42 | TheDiff | oh |
| 04:16.43 | mheath | but I don't have one yet |
| 04:16.45 | TheDiff | spring |
| 04:16.50 | TheDiff | why would it start in the spring |
| 04:17.05 | mheath | TheDiff: O.o I don't understand your question |
| 04:17.14 | mheath | Because spring is when the spring semester starts? O.o |
| 04:17.29 | TheDiff | you made it soudn like you will start college in spring 2006 |
| 04:17.31 | TheDiff | not fall 2005 |
| 04:17.42 | TheDiff | a college school year is seen as 2005-2006 |
| 04:17.48 | RyanE | they're just asking if you will have graduated before starting. Of course, in your case, that may be 'no', since you will go to USU before you actually walk... |
| 04:17.49 | TheDiff | fall 2005-spring 2006 |
| 04:17.54 | TheDiff | thats what they are saying |
| 04:18.02 | TheDiff | come on man, critical thinking |
| 04:18.10 | mheath | RyanE: I'll have my highschool diploma before I start at USU. |
| 04:18.21 | RyanE | and of *course* they mean College school year... what else do they care about? |
| 04:18.57 | mheath | RyanE: well, I'm applying for funding for College. And I'll have my highschool diploma before I start at the college that I need funding for. |
| 04:19.10 | RyanE | well, there you go. Yes |
| 04:19.12 | mheath | But I don't have a highschool diploma *now*, at the beginning of the 2005-2006 year year. |
| 04:19.14 | mheath | *school year |
| 04:19.24 | RyanE | they're talking Fall 2005 |
| 04:19.26 | RyanE | so yea |
| 04:19.42 | mheath | argh! |
| 04:19.50 | RyanE | I thought you said you would be going *before* actually graduation. |
| 04:19.58 | mheath | "Have you, the student, completed a 2004 IRS income tax return or other income tax return?" |
| 04:20.12 | mheath | But we don't care about your answer to this question |
| 04:20.18 | RyanE | seems straightforward enough. |
| 04:20.40 | RyanE | i.e. were you claimed on someone else's return, or did you file your own income tax return. |
| 04:20.46 | mheath | Because we're going to give you dozens fo questions about that tax return, without telling you what line to do to if you didn't complete one. |
| 04:20.55 | mheath | *to go to |
| 04:21.11 | RyanE | hehe |
| 04:21.29 | TheDiff | yeah dont worry too much about it |
| 04:21.34 | TheDiff | just make up stuff |
| 04:21.34 | RyanE | doesn't sound any more confusing than doing your own taxes. :) |
| 04:21.43 | mheath | This FAFSA is pretty much a waste of time |
| 04:21.48 | TheDiff | hahaha |
| 04:21.51 | mheath | (for me) |
| 04:21.54 | TheDiff | he is learning quickly |
| 04:22.10 | mheath | TheDiff: nah, some people squeeze some decent funding out of the federal government by filling this out |
| 04:22.28 | RyanE | you never know until you ask. |
| 04:22.28 | mheath | I have a special situation, which will become apparent to them when they look at my application, that will make me inelligible for such things. |
| 04:22.29 | TheDiff | yeah i know, and you shoudl fill it out |
| 04:22.36 | TheDiff | you just shouldnt worry too much about being perfect on it |
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| 04:22.57 | TheDiff | when i filled it out, i was all worried about misrepresenting numbers or something |
| 04:23.24 | TheDiff | like they would audit me or something |
| 04:25.11 | mheath | mmm |
| 04:25.17 | mheath | I made homemade chocolate pudding tonight |
| 04:25.20 | mheath | Yummy. |
| 04:30.18 | levi | Mmmm. |
| 04:31.11 | mheath | I dunno, I think JELLO does a pretty good job |
| 04:31.19 | mheath | homemade had kind of another dimension to the flavor... |
| 04:31.40 | mheath | But the chocolate taste wasn't quite as good as JELLO |
| 04:42.23 | xbmodder | mheath, thats awesome |
| 04:43.28 | xbmodder | can you cook alotta stuff mheath? |
| 04:44.12 | TheDiff | i can cook peanut butter and jelly |
| 04:44.50 | xbmodder | ~cooking |
| 04:44.52 | ibot | hmm... cooking is at <reply> http://www.cookingforengineers.com/ ...yum :) |
| 04:44.57 | xbmodder | ~define cooking |
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| 05:01.17 | mheath | xbmodder: depends on how motivated I am. |
| 05:01.34 | xbmodder | you want to please a girl? |
| 05:02.33 | TheDiff | umm |
| 05:02.35 | TheDiff | oh |
| 05:02.51 | TheDiff | woah there buddy, watch how you phrase things |
| 05:06.04 | xbmodder | hehee, |
| 05:09.01 | levi | http://lifeoflevi.com/blog/archive/2005/09/unix_system_programming_in_scheme |
| 05:22.56 | TheDiff | i'm addicted to dapreview.net |
| 05:26.55 | xbmodder | anybody here screwed with the Archos Based Linux Video players? |
| 05:27.14 | TheDiff | hmm no |
| 05:27.18 | TheDiff | they look kind of... fat |
| 05:28.06 | maquis | TheDiff: if they're anything like the archos jukebox, they probably are |
| 05:31.23 | TheDiff | archos was never one for sleek players |
| 05:31.46 | xbmodder | but they had good ideas |
| 05:48.00 | xbmodder | do plug members get free e-mail accounts? |
| 05:49.12 | TheDiff | haha |
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| 05:51.13 | levi | Time to sleep! |
| 06:51.52 | *** join/#utah maquis (n=maquis@joanna.zmonkey.org) |
| 07:08.10 | tensai | hah! my son fell out of his bed again. that's twice tonight. I don't know how he does it. |
| 10:01.03 | Supaplex | what's more amazing, is when he does that while sleeping on the floor to begin with |
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| 12:33.05 | maquis | tensai: how old? |
| 12:51.44 | maquis | http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/05sep/xuf008329.gif |
| 13:10.23 | mheath | maquis: is this true? :P |
| 13:23.14 | sjansen | mheath: nope, maquis is just a cruel tease |
| 13:39.20 | elg | xbmodder: of course you get a free email account. Just ask for a gmail invitatino |
| 13:41.27 | elg | sjansen: you're up early |
| 13:44.17 | maquis | mheath: not the kissing part, but the fact that some women like smart guys is... |
| 13:50.40 | maquis | the kissing part requires reciprocation... which seems to be a lot harder to come by |
| 13:52.43 | elg | only when they're awake |
| 13:52.55 | elg | see sleeping beauty, for example |
| 13:53.04 | elg | maybe she didn't want to kiss that prince |
| 13:53.08 | elg | but no choice. |
| 13:53.17 | maquis | elg: haha |
| 13:57.42 | maquis | question: is anyone here interested in presenting to the UUG on debugger-usage? |
| 13:58.24 | maquis | We're trying to set up a meeting on that for 10-6, and i'm having some trouble coming up with a speaker... |
| 14:19.30 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wade@66.237.80.85) |
| 14:28.54 | xbmodder | :) |
| 14:31.52 | maquis | ~segfault goozbach |
| 14:31.53 | ibot | ACTION executes goozbach and -9teLdR/;+#Segmentation fault. |
| 14:31.53 | maquis | ~seg fault goozbach |
| 14:31.55 | sjansen | elg: I'm on the east coast. |
| 14:31.55 | maquis | ~seg-fault goozbach |
| 14:31.56 | maquis | hmmm |
| 14:31.56 | maquis | sjansen: how is the class going? |
| 14:32.13 | maquis | hmmm |
| 14:32.16 | maquis | i got it in one of those |
| 14:33.16 | *** join/#utah Goshen (n=Goshen@c-67-172-238-57.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 14:33.28 | sjansen | maquis: things are going well |
| 14:35.12 | sjansen | I have to wear a red badge that means I have to be babysat (I can't be left alone) while I'm in the building. |
| 14:35.35 | sjansen | While I'm in the building, they also turn on a flashing red light. |
| 14:41.24 | elg | where you at? |
| 14:41.34 | elg | do they know you're using IRC to subvert their security? ;-) |
| 14:42.49 | sjansen | Ft. Meade, MD |
| 14:43.55 | sjansen | They know that I have Internet access. The building is outside the base, so I think it's just a reminder to everyone to not say anything stupid around me. |
| 14:46.31 | sjansen | The NSA is between my hotel and the classroom. |
| 14:46.47 | sjansen | Google Maps actually wanted me to take the NSA exit to get to my hotel. |
| 14:47.07 | *** join/#utah bonez39 (n=bonez@drjones.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 14:47.26 | sjansen | But the ramp is covered with signs saying "authorized personnel only" "NSA employees only" "Bad Things(tm) will happen to anyone that take this exit" etc. |
| 14:47.50 | elg | heh |
| 14:50.16 | *** join/#utah synic (n=synic@pdpc/supporter/student/synic) |
| 14:54.32 | bonez39 | how does one tell where mail downloads to, by default? to which directory? I know 'set' doesn't show a mail directory |
| 14:55.12 | sjansen | Well... that's really going to depend on how the system was configured. |
| 14:55.31 | sjansen | What program 'downloaded' the mail? |
| 14:56.46 | sjansen | /var/mail/ is very common, as is ~/MBOX |
| 14:58.02 | bonez39 | sjansen, I know that if I run mutt -f inbox I can read current and new mail....i.e., on my system at present, mail comes to /home/scott/inbox/ |
| 14:59.03 | {-} | So is your real question, how to get mutt to work without the -f? Or is it what program is putting mail their in the first place? Or something else? |
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| 15:09.18 | *** join/#utah Jayce^ (n=Jayce_@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 15:09.18 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
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| 15:19.12 | elg | what does the cgi error (500) Premature end of script headers mean? |
| 15:19.18 | *** join/#utah phinux (n=phinux@iocane.cs.byu.edu) |
| 15:19.28 | elg | the cgi is a super-simple test script that just does (in perl) |
| 15:19.36 | elg | print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"; |
| 15:19.40 | elg | print <<EOF; |
| 15:19.45 | elg | some html stuff here |
| 15:19.46 | elg | EOF |
| 15:19.55 | elg | and yes it has a shebang |
| 15:21.29 | Jayce^ | that's *all* it has?? |
| 15:21.33 | elg | yup |
| 15:21.45 | elg | should it have something else? |
| 15:21.56 | elg | like an exit at the end... |
| 15:21.59 | Jayce^ | no, that's an exteremly basic way of printing something |
| 15:22.17 | Jayce^ | EOF doesn't have any whitespace after it right? |
| 15:22.35 | Jayce^ | there's nothing else in the error log? |
| 15:22.57 | synic | elg: I get that error sometimes when it has dos style newlines |
| 15:23.10 | Jayce^ | plausible |
| 15:28.47 | tensai | elg: did you look in the error logs? have you tried running it from the command line as the webserver user? |
| 15:31.02 | elg | -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 149 Sep 29 09:30 test2.cgi |
| 15:32.14 | sjansen | Say hi to my class. |
| 15:32.24 | elg | hi to your class |
| 15:32.24 | elg | dent:/home/lpollock/public_html # ./test2.cgi |
| 15:32.24 | elg | Content-type: text/html |
| 15:32.25 | elg | <html> |
| 15:32.27 | Jayce^ | throw stuff at your teacher class! |
| 15:32.37 | elg | hmm, irssi stripped that newline between those |
| 15:32.46 | elg | but anyway, it looks like it ought to when I execute it |
| 15:33.22 | sjansen | ~lart elg |
| 15:33.25 | elg | [error] [client 172.16.56.250] Premature end of script headers: password.cgi, referer: http://dent/~lpollock/ |
| 15:33.37 | synic | elg: if you open it in vi do you see goofy ^M characters at the end of the lines? |
| 15:33.39 | sjansen | ~lart elg |
| 15:33.46 | Jayce^ | it's running from cli but not cgi... uhm.. |
| 15:34.14 | *** join/#utah decriptor (n=decripto@sshaw.ftth.xmission.com) |
| 15:37.45 | elg | 2.0.48 suse, fwiw |
| 15:41.09 | *** join/#utah jsmith (n=jsmith@64.0.193.23) |
| 15:45.06 | elg | this is in /var/log/apache2/suexec.log |
| 15:45.07 | elg | target uid/gid (821/103) mismatch with directory (821/100) or program (821/100) |
| 15:45.44 | Jayce^ | so you're running suid? |
| 15:45.58 | elg | maybe. :) probably suse's default config |
| 15:46.07 | Jayce^ | sounds like a problem outside of perl, more with the apache/user/etc |
| 15:46.11 | Jayce^ | permissions and such |
| 15:46.49 | Jayce^ | because doing something that basic/hack/cgi doesn't have much room to give a 500 error |
| 15:50.07 | sjansen | elg: suse has an annoying compiled in suexec directory requirement |
| 15:50.28 | sjansen | your file probably isn't in a valid suexec directory |
| 15:50.47 | sjansen | although it could be a invalid directory owner/file owner problem |
| 15:51.19 | elg | sjansen: I see that. I just tried disabling suexec but to no avail. so what are the suexec rules then, in a nutshell? |
| 15:51.49 | sjansen | senor google probably knows off the top of his head |
| 15:52.34 | elg | and a big head it is |
| 15:52.48 | *** join/#utah tensai (n=tensai@207.141.37.66) |
| 15:56.39 | Goshen | wow, if you want to train your adblock filters in 5 minutes, visit 411.com |
| 15:56.52 | Goshen | they have just about every banner type |
| 15:58.34 | elg | phew. group ownership. the group of the files/dir wasn't the users' primary grou |
| 15:58.34 | elg | p |
| 16:06.44 | elg | 10 points from suse |
| 16:22.07 | Goshen | I have got to get one of these |
| 16:22.07 | Goshen | http://beta.news.com.com/2300-1044_3-5884639-1.html |
| 16:23.42 | elg | pretty cool, I thought, but man it's ugly |
| 16:24.09 | Goshen | I don't think its ugly |
| 16:24.18 | Goshen | did you see all of the different modes? |
| 16:24.28 | Goshen | the e-book mode has to be the best |
| 16:24.31 | Goshen | has a handle |
| 16:25.36 | Goshen | I love the hand crank :) |
| 16:26.06 | elg | i love the price tag |
| 16:26.35 | *** join/#utah spr (n=spr@c-67-186-214-205.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 16:27.05 | Goshen | just think about all of the kids being able to read project guttenburg books |
| 16:27.09 | Goshen | all over the world! |
| 16:28.25 | *** join/#utah levi_ (n=levi@66.239.25.2.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 16:29.20 | phinux | It's not that ugly. The "handle" is the worst part, but considering all that comes with it, I could definitely overlook that. |
| 16:30.32 | levi | Good morning. |
| 16:31.41 | phinux | Question on this though, as skinny as this thing is, is there room for cd/dvd rom devices? Will it be wireless? Who determines the OS? |
| 16:32.05 | levi | What are you looking at? |
| 16:32.38 | phinux | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:32.41 | phinux | Goshen posted this a few minutes ago. |
| 16:33.31 | Bradipo | I think the hand crank is the killer feature for me! |
| 16:33.51 | Goshen | Phinux: linux is the os |
| 16:34.18 | levi | The early proof-of-concept model I saw used a tiny LCD blown up via rear-projection. That was kind of a cool idea. |
| 16:34.47 | Goshen | thats good unless your hut doesn't have any nice white flat surfaces |
| 16:35.21 | levi | No, it was like a rear-projection TV. It had its own screen it projected onto. |
| 16:35.51 | Goshen | ahh |
| 16:36.08 | levi | It was a lot bulkier than this rendering, of course, but still something you could transport easily. |
| 16:36.22 | phinux | MIT. I should have picked up on that. (Linux OS) |
| 16:37.43 | *** join/#utah harleypig (n=Clint@65.73.113.162) |
| 16:38.43 | bonez39 | is there a command that shows all variables...such as $PATH, $MAILDIR, etc? |
| 16:39.17 | elg | set |
| 16:40.18 | bonez39 | elg, ok, set... doesn't show either $MAIL or anything else for mail except _=.procmailrc last entry on screen when invoking 'set' at the prompt |
| 16:40.33 | elg | so it's probably not set |
| 16:40.37 | elg | what are you trying to figure out? |
| 16:41.01 | elg | if your question is about a specific variable, try |
| 16:41.01 | elg | echo $MAIL |
| 16:42.09 | bonez39 | well, at present if I type 'mutt' it takes me to an empty folder, but 'mutt -f inbox' takes me to the email folder, /home/scott/inbox where all incoming mail goes.... |
| 16:42.33 | bonez39 | so I want to tell either .procmailrc or something, or with set, to check for mail in /home/scott/inbox instead of wherever else mutt now looks |
| 16:42.33 | elg | so, it's a mutt configuration issue |
| 16:42.45 | bonez39 | yeah, I suppose it's a mutt config issue |
| 16:43.29 | elg | man muttrc |
| 16:43.32 | elg | you're looking for spoolfile |
| 16:44.09 | bonez39 | ok... |
| 16:44.16 | elg | fyi, most MTAs put mail in /var/spool/mail/username |
| 16:44.28 | elg | and mutt folders are usually in ~/Mail |
| 16:44.45 | elg | so mutt looks in /var/spool/mail/username for your "spoolfile", and when you make/save things to folders they go in ~/Mail places |
| 16:45.14 | elg | and then there's ~/mbox which mutt likes to move things from spoolfile to, depending on your config |
| 16:51.08 | tensai | why doesn't this work? |
| 16:51.10 | tensai | ls -1 |perl -lan -F. -e 'print $F[1]' |
| 16:51.24 | tensai | perl doesn't seem to like splitting on "." |
| 16:51.32 | tensai | there we go |
| 16:51.36 | tensai | ls -1 |perl -lan -F\\. -e 'print $F[1]' |
| 16:53.09 | Jayce^ | . is any char in that context (except newline of course)... so it was |
| 16:57.40 | tensai | oh, ok. I get it. obviously I know . is special. I thought it would show the second character in the string but since every character is a delimiter, there's nothing to show |
| 16:58.59 | levi | Ew. |
| 17:00.21 | levi | tensai: Did you see my blog entry about scsh? Not that I suspect you'd want to use it, given your feelings about Scheme. |
| 17:00.57 | tensai | levi: haven't read my feeds yet this morning. too busy fixing bugs I created last night. |
| 17:01.09 | tensai | it certainly sounds horrible, though |
| 17:01.15 | levi | Tsk, what'd you make bugs for? |
| 17:01.21 | tensai | something to do :) |
| 17:02.35 | tensai | I moved a ton of email to a new disk array last night. to make it go faster I've been doing incremental rsyncs all week. I forgot the --delete option to rsync so when people deleted their email I kept a copy of it on the new disk. |
| 17:02.47 | levi | It's actually a lot less horrible than it /could/ be, but you'd have to like Scheme to really like it. |
| 17:03.07 | tensai | it's causing problems with our webmail. only webmail, surprisingly. |
| 17:04.38 | jsmith | tensai: I had the same problem once, but found that automatically moving people's old email to a different IMAP folder helped a lot. |
| 17:06.50 | tensai | one of my thoughts too, but it didn't help this time :( |
| 17:07.18 | tensai | hmm. actually, it probably would work if I used a regular IMAP client. |
| 17:26.29 | *** part/#utah phinux (n=phinux@iocane.cs.byu.edu) |
| 17:27.42 | harleypig | bonez39: There is also env (re: your earlier question) |
| 17:28.04 | bonez39 | harleypig, 'env'? |
| 17:28.14 | harleypig | Yeah, set and env do similar things. |
| 17:28.25 | bonez39 | oh, to set variables.....and such.. |
| 17:28.27 | bonez39 | ok.. |
| 17:30.23 | harleypig | Well, set set's the variable but set by itself dumps some variables and env by itself dumps some variables. I don't know why they are different. |
| 17:30.50 | harleypig | Oh. I never thought to do a man env before. |
| 17:47.04 | harleypig | heh |
| 17:47.24 | tensai | too bad life isn't more like cartoons |
| 17:48.23 | elg | um, ok. I just got a bounce message from plug, saying that "my" delivery failed: from postmaster@plug.org to pluglist@plug.org, from server xtra.co.nz. apparently postmaster@plug.org was trying to send a virus to pluglist2plug.org through their server :-) |
| 17:49.50 | tensai | welcome to the club. aren't open relays the best? |
| 17:50.41 | sjansen | bonez39: env is better than set |
| 17:50.53 | sjansen | set shows shell variable, env shows environmental variables |
| 17:51.12 | tensai | we have a filter in place that blocks any incoming messages that claim to have originated from restricted accounts (support@, service@, sales@, etc.) |
| 17:51.31 | sjansen | if a variable hasn't been exported into the environment, it's going to have a hard time affecting your mail program |
| 17:55.15 | graphyx | good noon |
| 17:56.19 | tensai | elg: heh. I just got one too. funny, I don't remember sending text.scr from the postmaster account... |
| 17:56.54 | graphyx | new virus around? |
| 17:57.09 | tensai | nah, probably same old ones |
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| 17:57.55 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 17:59.03 | harleypig | :] |
| 18:04.11 | bonez39 | sjansen, ok, then, it appears that $MAIL hasn't been exported into the environment |
| 18:07.19 | *** join/#utah amcnabb (n=amcnabb@128.187.135.251) |
| 18:11.17 | Tene | is there a way to change permissions/ownership of files inside a tar without extracting/retarring? |
| 18:12.06 | tensai | I'm sure you could do it with a hex editor |
| 18:12.22 | Tene | heh |
| 18:12.33 | tensai | I think you could also just append another copy of the file to the archive with the new permissions |
| 18:13.07 | vontrapp | you could also use a hex editor to edit the tar executable to do it for you |
| 18:14.27 | tensai | you could hex edit vontrapp to get him to hex edit the tar executable to do it for you |
| 18:14.51 | elg | got a gun? you could make sjansen do it at gunpoint |
| 18:15.42 | tensai | did you know you can hex edit a person? sure, just grab a large hex wrench, beat them until the bits fall out and then put them back how you want them. |
| 18:16.49 | sjansen | Tene: hexedit |
| 18:16.56 | Jayce^ | ~tensai++ |
| 18:17.11 | sjansen | maybe I should read the whole backlog before responding |
| 18:18.43 | tensai | sjansen: you should read the backlog before responding |
| 18:18.46 | tensai | it really is rude to repeat what somebody else has already said |
| 18:19.47 | sjansen | ~crush tensai |
| 18:19.55 | ibot | ACTION crushes tensai with a full height scsi disk |
| 18:20.41 | sjansen | ~hexedit tensai |
| 18:20.42 | ibot | ACTION breaks tensai into little bits them puts them back the way she wants them |
| 18:20.56 | tensai | nice |
| 18:21.56 | amcnabb | Can I have that scsi disc? I'd like the magnets. :) |
| 18:22.42 | vontrapp | what are those silly words 'the' and 'a' called as a group? |
| 18:22.55 | jsmith | articles? |
| 18:22.58 | amcnabb | Woo-hoo! |
| 18:23.07 | tensai | jsmith: that's what I was going to guess too |
| 18:23.15 | sjansen | articles! |
| 18:23.24 | jsmith | sjansen: Beat ya! |
| 18:23.38 | sjansen | jsmith: but I said it with more feeling |
| 18:24.18 | sjansen | the - definite article ; a, an - indefinite article |
| 18:24.30 | sjansen | dear abby - newspaper article |
| 18:24.39 | jsmith | sjansen: Oh go fly a kite... (preferably in a rainstorm) |
| 18:24.40 | sjansen | (column, actually, but why quibble?) |
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| 18:43.12 | amcnabb | I had the coolest idea today. |
| 18:43.28 | amcnabb | You know how sometimes you have fatal error messages in a program you write along the lines of "This should never happen." |
| 18:43.50 | amcnabb | I added a printf("%s", 1); instead of exit(-1); just to make it more fun. |
| 18:46.27 | elg | how is it more fun? |
| 18:47.52 | amcnabb | It segfaults: Go out with a bang, you know? |
| 18:48.06 | RyanE | always nice to dereference a constant pointer. |
| 18:48.08 | RyanE | :) |
| 18:48.19 | maquis | amcnabb: that's great, so long as you know it's seg-faulting there, rather than someplace else :) |
| 18:48.33 | RyanE | c'mon maquis, that's what coredumps are for. |
| 18:48.34 | amcnabb | There are dozens of other ways to do it. |
| 18:48.52 | elg | sure, but why segfault? |
| 18:49.15 | elg | nobody but the debugger has fun when you seg fault |
| 18:49.24 | RyanE | really, though, it would be much more maintainable to call a segfault function... :) |
| 18:49.26 | amcnabb | That's not true at all. |
| 18:49.33 | amcnabb | I sure have fun. |
| 18:49.55 | amcnabb | RyanE, do it this way: |
| 18:50.09 | amcnabb | void (segfault*)(void); segfault=NULL; segfault() |
| 18:50.25 | RyanE | naw, do it in the preprocessor with a #define... |
| 18:50.55 | RyanE | but make it *look* like a function. maintainers just *love* that kind of thing... |
| 18:51.11 | amcnabb | :) |
| 18:51.27 | elg | well if I was maintining code that said segfault(), at least I'd know you weren't an idiot |
| 18:51.38 | RyanE | amcnabb: you trying to make an entry for thedailywtf.com? |
| 18:52.19 | amcnabb | That would totally make my day. |
| 18:53.13 | maquis | they need to have something like thedailywtf that deals with computer problems... |
| 18:53.37 | maquis | i've caused/experienced a good number of computer problems that would go well there |
| 18:53.40 | maquis | :) |
| 18:53.57 | tensai | levi: I tried out scsh. it's as awful as I thought. |
| 18:54.15 | maquis | haha |
| 18:54.15 | tensai | levi: I did some looking and discovered psh, the perl shell. I might just give that a whirl. |
| 18:54.36 | RyanE | thedailymaquistrialsinstallinglinuxdistros.com? |
| 18:54.47 | maquis | RyanE: something like that :) |
| 18:55.00 | RyanE | randomlinuxdistrooftheday.com? |
| 18:55.13 | RyanE | I think you averaged something like 2 distros a week, no? |
| 18:55.26 | RyanE | except for that week of gentoo compiling... |
| 18:55.48 | maquis | RyanE: no gentoo this semester... |
| 18:55.57 | maquis | and i've averaged about a week and a half or so... |
| 18:56.04 | maquis | but i thikn i'm going to keep fc4 for a while |
| 18:56.21 | maquis | at least until i get the chance to mess with distros on sekhmet to figure out which one i want to keep :) |
| 18:56.33 | RyanE | I had gentoo installed on my previous company laptop for 3 years. Decided with the new company, new laptop, it was time for FC4. worked first try. |
| 18:56.50 | maquis | RyanE: see... you're just lucky... :) |
| 18:56.54 | RyanE | FC has come a long way in 3 years. |
| 18:57.18 | RyanE | yeah, they call it "luck of the evil". BWAAAAHAAAA HAAAAA HAAAA! |
| 18:57.38 | levi | tensai: scsh isn't supposed to be a login shell at the moment, just a replacement for sh scripts. |
| 18:58.36 | RyanE | levi: reading the docs on it, I couldn't really see why you wouldn't just use some other 4th gen language to do it, since it isn't really replacing the 'shell' part of it... i.e. Perl or (heaven forbid) PHP or Ruby... |
| 18:58.48 | RyanE | unless of course, you wanted scheme... |
| 18:59.15 | RyanE | so it's basically just scheme with some shortcuts for handle / process management, right? |
| 19:00.26 | levi | RyanE: That, and bindings to most Unix system calls. |
| 19:00.55 | tensai | levi: psh was short lived. just a few too many "*** glibc detected *** double free or corruption (!prev): 0x08344b50 ***" errors for my liking |
| 19:01.21 | levi | RyanE: You would use it over some other language because you happen to like Scheme more than bizarre amalgamations of shell scripting tools like perl is. :) |
| 19:02.02 | levi | RyanE: Perl has since evolved to be able to do most things scsh can do, but it still shows its roots. |
| 19:02.48 | levi | The Scheme Shell paper is a bit dated, after all. |
| 19:03.32 | RyanE | yeah, I'm certainly not a Perl advocate, but I also run away from Lisp like a crazed maniac. :) |
| 19:04.14 | levi | Well, that's your loss. Lisp is fun once you get used to it. |
| 19:04.23 | RyanE | so levi, I know you're a Lisp lover (not that there's anything wrong with that). What's your opinion of Ruby? |
| 19:04.58 | levi | My opinion of Ruby is that it's dragging a lot of Perl users 3/4 of the way to Smalltalk. ;) |
| 19:05.07 | *** join/#utah JoshH (i=josh@josh.xmission.com) |
| 19:05.11 | RyanE | lisp seems a bit too foreign for me to pick up in the short amount of time I have to learn something useful. |
| 19:05.15 | RyanE | hehe |
| 19:05.33 | levi | (to paraphrase Guy Steele's justification of Java) |
| 19:06.45 | levi | RyanE: It seems foreign at first, and it does require thinking about things differently, but that's part of why it's fun. It's fun without having to do anything useful with it. Kind of like puzzles. |
| 19:06.59 | RyanE | yeah, but there's a big difference. Ruby seems to have the PR behind it. Smalltalk never really got the popularity. |
| 19:07.22 | RyanE | well, with 5 kids, a large yard, and the full-time job, I don't have a lot of time for puzzles, either. |
| 19:07.29 | levi | RyanE: That just makes the comparison all the more apt. |
| 19:07.36 | RyanE | but I see your point. |
| 19:08.08 | levi | RyanE: The original point was, "Java is dragging a bunch of C++ programmers halfway to Lisp. Doesn't that make you happy?" or something like that. |
| 19:08.20 | levi | s/point/quote/ |
| 19:08.21 | RyanE | hehe |
| 19:08.59 | RyanE | well, I don't really agree with that original quote, but I suppose I probably do agree with your using it in the ruby comparison. |
| 19:09.15 | levi | Smalltalk, kind of like Lisp, is still alive and running large applications in domains where people chose their languages on their merits rather than marketing. It's a niche, but a live one. |
| 19:11.05 | RyanE | well, I think that sometimes 3/4 the way to Smalltalk is *better* than all the way there... |
| 19:11.39 | RyanE | i.e. you keep enough of the syntactic sugar and functional functionality to grab the C/C++ dinosaurs like me. |
| 19:12.27 | levi | RyanE: Well, disagreeing with me is fine. I'd think twice before disagreeing with Guy Steele. ;) |
| 19:13.19 | RyanE | I'm certain he's looking at it from a different point of view than I am, and that taken in context, it probably applies considerably better. |
| 19:13.36 | levi | Yeah, well, I'm kind of a language purist. I understand where the pragmatists are coming from and why Ruby is very appealing in that context. |
| 19:14.17 | RyanE | I am only looking at it (Java=>Lisp) (admittedly) from the most superficial of standpoints. Java makes you type a lot, Lisp has lots of parens, but not as much typing. :) |
| 19:14.41 | RyanE | and I know that's not the context Guy is discussing. |
| 19:15.41 | levi | RyanE: Getting people to accept garbage collection (which is one of the most controversial things Lisp introduced when it was first written) was a huge thing Java accomplished. |
| 19:17.36 | levi | An advantage Smalltalk has over Ruby is that it's very mature, and it's had people working on efficient implementations of it for a long time. |
| 19:17.43 | levi | Also, there's commercial support. |
| 19:18.00 | levi | And a community of smart programmers, even if they aren't terribly numerous. |
| 19:19.15 | levi | A lot of the OO methodologies that are currently hot topics amongst Java and Ruby programmers came from the Smalltalk community. |
| 19:20.15 | *** join/#utah JoshH (i=josh@josh.xmission.com) |
| 19:20.24 | sjansen | http://www.fema.gov/kids/femarap.htm |
| 19:20.38 | levi | sjansen: Not gonna go there. |
| 19:20.40 | tensai | oh, I hope that isn't as stupid as it sounds |
| 19:20.57 | levi | sjansen: I had enough bad rap with Mr. T's raps for kids. |
| 19:24.34 | levi | RyanE: Ward Cunningham, of Wiki fame, invented Extreme Programming with Kent Beck while they were doing Smalltalk programming. |
| 19:25.18 | maquis | w00t! |
| 19:25.24 | maquis | my mommy sent me a package!!! |
| 19:25.37 | sjansen | ~steal maquis' package |
| 19:25.39 | ibot | ACTION grabs maquis' package and gives it to sjansen |
| 19:27.28 | maquis | haha |
| 19:27.50 | maquis | sjansen: it's a purse my mom bought me at a sale... if you really want it though.... :) |
| 19:30.20 | levi | RyanE: And some of the Gang of Four are Smalltalk programmers as well. They wrote the original Design Patterns book. |
| 19:31.18 | RyanE | yep. read about both of those camps being smalltalk. |
| 19:34.07 | levi | I'd like to see sjansen carrying a purse around. |
| 19:35.07 | goozbach | any macos users? |
| 19:35.31 | elg | smalltalk is a good language. so is lisp. ruby is a good language in large part because it learned from them (and other languages like perl) |
| 19:35.44 | levi | goozbach: Yup. |
| 19:35.55 | elg | I think this is orthogonal to why ruby is popular now, wasn't popular a few years ago, and why smalltalk and lisp haven't been popular for awhile |
| 19:36.29 | levi | elg: Yeah, the whims of the programming community at large don't often seem terribly connected with matters of logic. |
| 19:36.31 | elg | and although the answer is complicated, I think one big reason is rails. or rails is the primary manifestation, pick your poison. |
| 19:36.37 | goozbach | how does one reset an unknown password? |
| 19:37.00 | elg | levi: nope, that's what makes psychology so interesting! :) |
| 19:37.02 | RyanE | I kind of look at it as: Ruby is the second or third implemented language to implement most of these issues, and I don't like to buy Version 1. |
| 19:37.19 | goozbach | eg, I inherit a macos box, and I dont know the password. |
| 19:37.20 | levi | RyanE: That's silly. Lisp and Smalltalk are not on version 1, either. |
| 19:37.28 | elg | my own reason for liking ruby above lisp/smalltalk is that I find ruby fun |
| 19:37.36 | maquis | goozbach: does osx have single-user-mode? |
| 19:37.40 | levi | RyanE: In many ways, Ruby is far more 'version 1' than either Lisp or Smalltalk |
| 19:37.46 | RyanE | yeah, but once the language implementation gets 'rolling', it goes on a certain path. I don't like paths with lots of parens. |
| 19:37.56 | RyanE | I am severely paren-challenged. |
| 19:38.05 | maquis | the other option i can think of would be to boot into a live-cd and use that to find out where it keeps the passwords |
| 19:38.16 | levi | RyanE: But you do like {}'s? |
| 19:38.23 | RyanE | actually, I do. |
| 19:38.26 | maquis | goozbach: do either of those ideas work? |
| 19:38.28 | RyanE | C and all... |
| 19:38.53 | elg | i thought do .. end was silly when I started with ruby. I like them now |
| 19:38.59 | elg | I think parens are good _with_ proper indentation |
| 19:39.11 | levi | Yeah, definitely. |
| 19:39.17 | *** join/#utah [-] (n=dataw0lf@66.219.227.114) |
| 19:39.27 | RyanE | I'm sure I could go back and blame it on my only intro to lisp, with a bad TA and an instructor who passed over it likely much too quickly. |
| 19:39.28 | elg | although I find (fn arg1 arg2) to be less intrinsically clear than fn(arg1,arg2) |
| 19:39.29 | goozbach | maq: we've gotten into single user, we just dont know where the passwd is stored |
| 19:39.33 | levi | Programming in Lisp or Scheme without following indentation standards is an exercise in pain. |
| 19:39.38 | RyanE | elg: as do I. |
| 19:39.46 | elg | maybe because I learned algebra at a young age. it's not exactly a roadblock for me, but just an observation |
| 19:40.09 | levi | elg and RyanE: That's not intrinsic, that's trained. :) |
| 19:40.20 | elg | which is odd since lisp I would say is closer to mathematical theory than othe rlanguages |
| 19:40.45 | levi | elg: That just illustrates separation of semantics from syntax. |
| 19:41.10 | levi | elg: Haskell is far closer to mathematical notation. Or APL. |
| 19:41.11 | maquis | goozbach: when you're single-user, can't you just run passwd? |
| 19:41.21 | elg | of course. what's odd is that the mathematical heritage didn't result in a more similar syntax to mathematics |
| 19:41.24 | goozbach | nope |
| 19:41.56 | levi | elg: I don't think it's odd at all. There's a reason the syntax stayed; it was incredibly practical. |
| 19:41.59 | sjansen | everything inside the parens is one statement, what could be more clear? |
| 19:42.03 | tensai | I've just made a selection in vim. is there a way to get the inverse? |
| 19:42.04 | elg | "If you forget your password for your computer, insert the Mac OS X CD and restart your computer while holding down the C key on the keyboard. When the Installer appears, choose Reset Password from the Installer menu and follow the onscreen instructions." |
| 19:42.14 | tensai | or crop everything outside the selection? |
| 19:42.38 | elg | i don't think you can have an inverse selection |
| 19:42.41 | elg | don't know about crop |
| 19:42.45 | sjansen | tensai: yes, there is a way |
| 19:42.54 | elg | certainly could write a macro to do it. :) or a mpaping |
| 19:43.07 | tensai | sjansen: will you tell me it? |
| 19:43.42 | elg | tensai: you haven't suffered enough |
| 19:43.44 | sjansen | tensai: nope. I don't know it |
| 19:43.53 | elg | do a few more painful things and then he'll tell you |
| 19:43.57 | tensai | ~sjansen-- |
| 19:44.26 | sjansen | although I suppose you could yank it, paste it into another buffer, delete everything in the first, copy it back from the other buffer |
| 19:44.41 | levi | elg: I don't think anyone's claimed that Lisp matches up well syntactically with people's past experiences, only that once used to it, it allows programmers to do complex things far more naturally than with more complex/irregular syntax. |
| 19:44.47 | elg | or yank it into a named buffer |
| 19:44.50 | elg | then ggVGd |
| 19:44.54 | elg | then "xp |
| 19:44.59 | elg | if x is the buffer you yanked to |
| 19:45.12 | tensai | how does one yank to a named buffer? |
| 19:45.16 | elg | "xy |
| 19:45.19 | elg | for buffer x |
| 19:47.11 | tensai | elg: still no 800 numbers from nufone :( |
| 19:48.36 | elg | :( |
| 19:49.50 | goozbach | elg: that's not gonna work:) |
| 19:50.18 | elg | goozbach: what's not? |
| 19:50.19 | jsmith | Tene: Why not? I have one :-) |
| 19:50.50 | goozbach | the cd reset trick |
| 19:51.10 | elg | oh, I didn't look closely. you need a cd? you have not a CD I guess |
| 19:51.33 | goozbach | nope |
| 19:51.47 | elg | is it one user or the only user? |
| 19:51.53 | goozbach | we've got a vmware image of os for x86 |
| 19:51.53 | jsmith | tensai: What? Nufone won't give you a toll-free number? |
| 19:51.57 | maquis | but you have single-user-mode.... so.... |
| 19:52.10 | elg | jsmith: they apparently are temporarily out |
| 19:52.14 | tensai | jsmith: they're all out. they said they'll be activating more this week. hasn't happened yet. |
| 19:52.27 | levi | goozbach: Ooh, shame on you. ;) |
| 19:52.33 | jsmith | OK, am I gonna have to crack some heads or what? |
| 19:52.35 | levi | goozbach: You pirate! |
| 19:52.51 | jsmith | tensai: You want mine? |
| 19:53.19 | tensai | jsmith: I'm really in no rush and my $10 isn't going to expire |
| 19:53.28 | elg | goozbach: try this |
| 19:53.30 | elg | http://www.intelliot.com/blog/archives/2005/02/15/mac-os-x-password-recovery/ |
| 19:53.42 | elg | e.g. command-s to get single user |
| 19:53.44 | tensai | jsmith: unless you've got 867-5309, then I'll take it |
| 19:53.47 | elg | (while booting) |
| 19:53.57 | jsmith | tensai: Nope... 233-1454 |
| 19:54.17 | maquis | tensai: why that number? |
| 19:54.26 | elg | she's got it she's got it |
| 19:54.29 | tensai | jsmith: on second thought, I'm sure I wouldn't want that. I'd probably get random calls. |
| 19:54.44 | tensai | maquis: you need to get out more |
| 19:54.45 | goozbach | levi: i:m in the beta test *shiftyeyes* |
| 19:55.10 | maquis | tensai: probably... but i'm still curious.. |
| 19:55.12 | levi | goozbach: Then you'd have a pre-installed x86 Mac and a CD. :) |
| 19:55.53 | elg | ~google 8675309 |
| 19:56.31 | tensai | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/867-5309 |
| 19:56.47 | maquis | thanks |
| 20:02.48 | jsmith | maquis: It was probably before your time. |
| 20:03.12 | maquis | jsmith: yeah :) along with everything else :) |
| 20:03.35 | elg | technically, irc is before her time too, but we let here hang out here |
| 20:04.02 | jsmith | Yeah, and telephones were before my time, but I still get to play with them way too much, with all the Asterisk stuff I"m dong. |
| 20:04.08 | jsmith | s/dong/doing/ |
| 20:08.06 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (n=zaphod@137.190.156.99) |
| 20:27.46 | *** part/#utah Jayce^ (n=Jayce_@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 20:28.31 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (n=zaphod@137.190.156.99) |
| 20:29.14 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@70.98.251.29) |
| 20:30.45 | *** join/#utah Goshun (n=Goshen@c-67-172-238-57.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 20:31.04 | Goshun | I am amazed that there isn't an open source payroll application |
| 20:31.24 | Goshun | Has anyone heard of one? |
| 20:41.09 | levi | It always surprises me when people are surprised that a certain open source application they want isn't available. ;) |
| 20:42.04 | elg | it's usually surprise that your itch turns out to be relatively uniqueamong oss developers |
| 20:45.34 | dataw0lf | http://paythyme.com/ |
| 20:45.38 | dataw0lf | open source, but commercial. |
| 20:45.50 | RyanE | boring business apps certainly aren't an itch I'd ever want to scratch. |
| 20:46.51 | levi | I dunno, if you're itching to try out Ruby on Rails or something, you might want the actual business logic boring so you can concentrate on the other stuff. |
| 20:49.21 | Goshun | dataw0lf: I found that one, but it looked like it was just for the UK |
| 20:54.01 | harleypig | AAAAGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH |
| 20:54.07 | harleypig | Tension breaker. |
| 20:54.09 | harleypig | Had to be done. |
| 20:54.16 | harleypig | I just couldn't do it out loud |
| 20:54.17 | mrpull- | harleypig: it cant be worse than waiting on hold with Dell |
| 20:54.48 | maquis | harleypig: what's wrong? |
| 20:54.52 | harleypig | I dunno ... idiot can't understand why we won't take his book. |
| 20:55.04 | harleypig | This guy has a book he wrote. he thinks it's the cat's meow. |
| 20:55.25 | harleypig | About how to be successful. And he's just positive it'll sell like hotcakes on ebay. |
| 20:55.50 | harleypig | He hasn't sold a copy of it yet locally, or online. |
| 20:56.08 | maquis | what's it about? |
| 20:56.19 | tensai | How to Be Successful. Step 1, write a book about how to be successful. Step 2, sell it on ebay to suckers. |
| 20:56.27 | harleypig | How to be successful. How to get rich. It uses Mormon principles. |
| 20:56.37 | harleypig | So it's *GOT* to be good, right? |
| 20:56.38 | maquis | oh... missed that part |
| 20:56.45 | maquis | hmmm |
| 20:56.52 | tensai | it must involve some sort of pyramid scheme then |
| 20:57.18 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (n=zaphod@137.190.156.99) |
| 20:57.34 | harleypig | I stopped listening after "it uses mormon principles" |
| 20:58.59 | harleypig | I offered to set up an ecommerce site where people can download pdf copies but he got upset because people could easily copy it |
| 20:59.57 | elg | using those mormon principles, obviously |
| 21:02.05 | elg | what does a mormonatrix look like? /me imagines brigham with a leather jacket, keanu reeves haircut, and sunglasses |
| 21:02.24 | jsmith | elg: White shirt and tie, too |
| 21:03.01 | levi | elg: Um, I don't think the -atrix ending came from The Matrix. |
| 21:03.03 | maquis | little black nametag :) |
| 21:03.52 | lars-ut-away | CentOS install using JFS anyone? Looks like JFS is excluded from the stock install kernel. |
| 21:04.00 | levi | White shirt and tie, clean-cut hair, but with leather pants and a whip. |
| 21:04.25 | jsmith | lars-ut-away: I think if you type "linux jfs" at the syslinux screen, you can install to JFS partitions, but then once you boot into it the stock kernel doesn't support it. |
| 21:04.35 | lars-ut | nope |
| 21:04.37 | jsmith | lars-ut: Or, at least it was that way with XFS |
| 21:04.50 | lars-ut | already tried linux jfs |
| 21:04.56 | jsmith | ~lart RedHat's distrust of other filesystems |
| 21:05.10 | maquis | ~rlart |
| 21:05.50 | lars-ut | ~emulate gaz |
| 21:05.52 | ibot | He stole my GameSlave and now he's gonna pay. |
| 21:06.43 | lars-ut | frackin' redhat. |
| 21:09.15 | jsmith | lars-ut: C'mon, it's not like this thing is gonna be creating thousands of files, or be that i/o intensive. |
| 21:09.52 | maquis | ~seg-fault lars-ut |
| 21:10.30 | maquis | ~segfault lars-ut |
| 21:10.32 | ibot | ACTION executes lars-ut and -9teLdR/;+#Segmentation fault. |
| 21:13.25 | lars-ut | jsmith: you'd think an 'Enterprise' OS would offer some robust filesystem choices. |
| 21:14.01 | maquis | lars-ut: don't do it! |
| 21:14.13 | jsmith | lars-ut: Fine with me, as long as you wanna manage it :-) |
| 21:14.26 | jsmith | lars-ut: I didn't end up dropping off your book. What time are you taking off today? |
| 21:14.38 | lars-ut | not for a while - I've got a lot to do. |
| 21:15.52 | lars-ut | I'll start pondering dinner options around 5pm, but I'll most likely be here until 8 |
| 21:16.08 | lars-ut | maquis: Give me an alternative. |
| 21:16.19 | maquis | lars-ut: where's "here" and why are you going to be there that late? |
| 21:16.33 | maquis | lars-ut: i don't know... i just know that debian hurts |
| 21:16.53 | lars-ut | here=work |
| 21:17.10 | maquis | lars-ut: i guessed that much |
| 21:17.42 | lars-ut | late='a choice made to avoid having the tasks of today become the tasks of tomorrow' |
| 21:18.03 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (n=zaphod@137.190.156.99) |
| 21:18.04 | maquis | ah..... |
| 21:18.28 | lars-ut | jsmith: I'm consider putting the ext3 gun in my mouth |
| 21:18.45 | maquis | but that just means you'll have a different set of tasks of tomorrow, and you'll have to stay late tomorow to avoid them becoming the tasks of monday |
| 21:18.49 | jsmith | lars-ut: In my book, it beats installing Gentoo on the box :-) |
| 21:19.13 | maquis | lars-ut: what's wrong with ext3? |
| 21:19.35 | jsmith | maquis: It's suboptimal :-) |
| 21:19.40 | maquis | jsmith: for? |
| 21:19.47 | jsmith | maquis: For filesystems... |
| 21:20.07 | maquis | jsmith: i'm not going to attack you... i'm just curious why you think that |
| 21:20.20 | mheath | Preformance wise, its inferior, maquis. |
| 21:20.28 | maquis | i've never used anything besides ext3, and i'm wondering about the differences |
| 21:20.37 | mheath | There are a variety of options for any possible application that are higher preformance than ext3. |
| 21:20.38 | jsmith | maquis: For performance, for reliability, for flexibility... |
| 21:20.52 | maquis | hmmm |
| 21:21.02 | jsmith | maquis: In short, if ext3 were perfect, there wouldn't be a need for xfs/jfs/reiser/etc. |
| 21:21.11 | maquis | so... for an average desktop user, which is best? |
| 21:21.15 | mheath | jsmith: everthings on track now |
| 21:21.24 | elg | lars-ut: why not ext3 for / and whatever you like for the rest? |
| 21:21.25 | mheath | Just have to finish up a couple online classes... |
| 21:21.25 | jsmith | mheath: Killer! (Go Aggies!) |
| 21:21.39 | maquis | and why do so many distros have ext3 as their default? |
| 21:21.46 | jsmith | maquis: For the average desktop user (if there is such a thing), ext3 is OK. |
| 21:21.48 | elg | because it's defacto |
| 21:21.50 | mheath | Got my application all filled out, I'm going to turn it in when I go up there for a tour on Wednesday |
| 21:21.52 | jsmith | maquis: But on a server... |
| 21:22.02 | mheath | (Plus, I'm taking the residual ACT on Wednesday) |
| 21:22.10 | elg | 11 indians and one hans |
| 21:22.13 | maquis | would one of the others be "better" on a desktop system? |
| 21:22.13 | elg | in this lab |
| 21:22.25 | elg | and I just missed a big joke in hindu or something |
| 21:22.26 | lars-ut | elg: only ext3 is supported by the kernel |
| 21:22.30 | maquis | elg: :) |
| 21:22.45 | elg | lars-ut: "the kernel" |
| 21:22.47 | mheath | I love that this keeps all my e-mail... |
| 21:22.49 | mheath | ~praise gmail |
| 21:22.50 | ibot | All hail gmail! |
| 21:22.53 | elg | would the be the one from on-high? |
| 21:22.55 | mheath | ibot: indeed. |
| 21:22.56 | ibot | Yes, indeed! mheath is da man. |
| 21:22.59 | maquis | lars-ut: why keep that kernel? |
| 21:23.10 | elg | last I checked vanilla kernel supported my xfs system with the proper configuration |
| 21:23.14 | mheath | ibot: thank you. |
| 21:23.14 | ibot | mheath: no worries |
| 21:25.09 | elg | ok, how do _you_ estimate? :) I love these quickpolls |
| 21:25.22 | maquis | elg: ? |
| 21:25.24 | elg | do you make liberal guesses and then x2 |
| 21:25.30 | jsmith | elg: Yes. |
| 21:25.32 | elg | or x3, or /.7 |
| 21:25.50 | elg | or do you make conservative guesses and x200.... you get the idea |
| 21:26.03 | jsmith | elg: Depends on what I'm estimating... |
| 21:26.05 | RyanE | maquis: XFS is optimized for large files (very good for MythTV video files, for example). ReiserFS is optimized for small files and high speed access. JFS, I don't know. ext3 is not a bad journaling filesystem, it's just less optimized for any particular situation. |
| 21:26.18 | maquis | RyanE: oh... |
| 21:26.28 | jsmith | elg: How would you go about estimating the number of gas stations in the US? It's an interesting question if you think about it (and don't just google for the answer) |
| 21:26.29 | RyanE | maquis: on flexibility, not all filesystems support resizing. Some only support resizing larger. |
| 21:26.30 | elg | jfs is optimized for Jayce^ |
| 21:26.40 | maquis | so for a very generalized situation, ext3 might be best *because* it's not optimized for anything in particulra? |
| 21:26.52 | elg | oh, estimating hours to spend doing a program |
| 21:27.00 | elg | a system like a web store in this case |
| 21:27.06 | RyanE | it's all a matter of tradeoffs. ext3 is also pretty safe, as ext2 that it's based on has been around for a long time. |
| 21:27.18 | RyanE | of course, nowadays, xfs and reiser have been around 'forever' as well. |
| 21:27.18 | jsmith | elg: Make a liberal guesstime, and times x3. If it's worth writing, it's worth writing twice. |
| 21:27.27 | jsmith | s/guesstime/guesstimate/ |
| 21:27.29 | elg | not to mention it's almost guaranteed to be supported by whatever kernel you throw at it |
| 21:27.35 | RyanE | but a few years ago, you could get bit by using reiser. |
| 21:27.36 | RyanE | elg: true |
| 21:27.45 | jsmith | RyanE: Been there, done that, still have the scars |
| 21:27.48 | lars-ut | elg: the kernel present in the default first disk doesn't support reiserfs, jfs, xfs and others during the installation |
| 21:28.22 | jsmith | RyanE: SuSE kernel + custom Promise RAID controller driver + Reiser 3 + stupid admin == big trouble! |
| 21:28.27 | elg | lars-ut: exactly, and who knows which kernel you throw at it years doown the road won't either. make root ext3 and make the rest whatever you like |
| 21:28.46 | elg | then you can always at least get to single-user |
| 21:28.55 | elg | that's my philosphy anyway |
| 21:29.05 | lars-ut | hmm... |
| 21:29.09 | elg | I used to partition things majorly, now I mostly do two partitions: root and "everything else" |
| 21:29.20 | elg | or on my home box, I also have a media partition |
| 21:29.20 | RyanE | jsmith: SuSE + LVM + XFS + freaking large disks + MythTV (where I really don't care if my files get hosed anyway) == SCHWEET! |
| 21:29.28 | *** part/#utah linuxalien (n=zaphod@137.190.156.99) |
| 21:29.36 | elg | you don't care if good eats gets deleted before you watch it?! |
| 21:29.56 | lars-ut | or Battlestar Galactica? |
| 21:30.15 | RyanE | let's just say that if the latest episode of 'Family Guy' or 'Scrubs' gets corrupted, I'm not out that much. |
| 21:30.39 | elg | or doctor who |
| 21:30.47 | lars-ut | not doctor who! |
| 21:30.55 | elg | ~praise the doctor |
| 21:30.56 | ibot | All hail the doctor! |
| 21:30.58 | RyanE | I'd have to bittorrent that to watch. hardly worth the effort, personally. |
| 21:31.01 | lars-ut | the tardis must be treated w/care. |
| 21:31.26 | lars-ut | ~blaspheme RyanE |
| 21:31.39 | RyanE | used to. |
| 21:31.42 | RyanE | don't know if they still do. |
| 21:31.46 | elg | I'd be a little less lazy about setting up the antenna if they do |
| 21:31.49 | elg | here=las cruces |
| 21:31.55 | RyanE | hehe |
| 21:31.58 | RyanE | nevermind. |
| 21:32.02 | elg | I was MAD when they stopped airing it on channel 7 |
| 21:32.06 | elg | I was just getting into it, too |
| 21:32.20 | elg | and 1/2 hour every week it kind of creeps along |
| 21:32.58 | lars-ut | RyanE: have u seen the new Dr Who? |
| 21:33.11 | RyanE | nope. I don't get it on my cable lineup |
| 21:33.11 | elg | jsmith: ok, now say your client likes to pay hourly with a maximum payout cap. do you x6 then for the estimate? |
| 21:33.41 | lars-ut | funny - I x6 for estimates. |
| 21:33.44 | RyanE | elg: maximum cap == cap on the spec of the project, unless you can use change orders. |
| 21:34.04 | elg | right |
| 21:34.16 | jsmith | elg: How good of a spec do you have from them? What is the risk of feature creep? |
| 21:34.19 | RyanE | I've only done estimates, but charge T&M hourly. then they can make all the changes they want. |
| 21:34.53 | RyanE | you just have to be *very* free with communication on what's new, and will change the schedule. |
| 21:35.14 | elg | ~spell fulfillment |
| 21:36.14 | elg | yeah, communication is always paramount |
| 21:36.22 | elg | and frequent feedback |
| 21:36.28 | elg | I'm big on the agile stuff |
| 21:36.50 | elg | although I'm not sure I'd go for team programming with most people |
| 21:37.02 | elg | done it successfully with my brother before |
| 21:37.14 | RyanE | elg: amen. Esp. those with poor hygiene. |
| 21:37.22 | elg | but j. random programmer on my team... probably not |
| 21:37.55 | elg | besides, how can you team program with music? |
| 21:39.04 | jsmith | elg: Exactly... |
| 21:44.13 | graphyx | What is the log file for postfix? |
| 21:44.58 | graphyx | nvm |
| 21:48.21 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@buscaluz.org) |
| 21:48.59 | goozbach | what to do with ~24 hrs free in Atl... |
| 21:50.24 | tensai | ~google corey edwards |
| 21:50.59 | jsmith | goozbach: Go to Stone Mountain. |
| 21:51.06 | jsmith | goozbach: And take some good hiking shoes |
| 21:51.10 | jsmith | goozbach: Trust me :-) |
| 21:51.10 | tensai | goozbach: well, if ibot ever pulls up those results you could call up the famous escort with my name |
| 21:51.19 | jsmith | goozbach: (Or, go to the Atlanta Underground) |
| 21:51.47 | RyanE | visit Matlock. |
| 21:52.26 | sjansen | goozbach: find an expensive gift for me |
| 21:53.15 | jsmith | goozbach: Have dinner at the Atlanta Fish Market (I think that's what it's called -- great restaurant!) |
| 21:53.36 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@adsl-61-112-247.sdf.bellsouth.net) |
| 21:53.48 | goozbach | i've seen that |
| 21:54.02 | maquis | `lart emcnabb |
| 21:54.08 | goozbach | I dont have hiking boots with me |
| 21:54.38 | jsmith | goozbach: Go eat fish then, and visit the underground. |
| 21:54.52 | graphyx | goozbach hang out in your room and try to hack the hotel's IR system.. |
| 21:54.53 | goozbach | maybe I can talk emcnabb into going to the cheesecake factory |
| 21:55.17 | jsmith | Definitely... |
| 21:55.20 | goozbach | i did that last night |
| 21:55.27 | jsmith | What's the secret? |
| 21:55.38 | goozbach | pez |
| 21:55.43 | jsmith | Cool! |
| 21:56.30 | Goshun | I collect pez |
| 21:56.36 | goozbach | not the despenser... the foil... |
| 21:57.00 | goozbach | use it to change the freq of the ir waves... |
| 21:57.00 | jsmith | But chewing-gum foil doesn't work? |
| 21:57.15 | RyanE | eBay: the power of pez. |
| 21:58.16 | goozbach | most gum wrappers are embossed |
| 21:58.23 | goozbach | pez isnt |
| 22:08.09 | emcnabb | goozbach, I'm up in Alpharetta |
| 22:09.39 | emcnabb | a student did bring me some cheesecake from there after lunch today |
| 22:10.39 | graphyx | Are they just trying to butter you up some? |
| 22:13.12 | goozbach | emcnabb: with the fam-in-law? |
| 22:22.23 | tensai | ~lart archaic pbxes |
| 22:24.49 | tensai | I just want a DID to ring a different extension. why does that have to be so hard? |
| 22:25.26 | graphyx | so you have to pay someone to do it. |
| 22:25.52 | tensai | graphyx: that's very true. they want $80/hr. |
| 22:26.55 | graphyx | I wasn't trying to be funny.. |
| 22:29.43 | *** part/#utah harleypig (n=Clint@65.73.113.162) |
| 22:34.02 | tensai | graphyx: you're totally right. it's a racket. I'm so glad we're finally getting some decent phone competition. |
| 22:34.46 | *** join/#utah jsmith (n=jsmith@64.0.193.23) |
| 22:34.48 | emcnabb | goozbach, I am |
| 22:37.32 | graphyx | tensai: Get an asterisk server... |
| 22:38.19 | tensai | graphyx: I have one. but you can't simply replace a pbx in a call center over night. |
| 22:38.38 | jsmith | graphyx: tensai has an Asterisk server, I think :-) |
| 22:38.38 | graphyx | You are absolutely right. |
| 22:38.55 | jsmith | tensai: Amen to that -- it requires just a *little* planning. |
| 22:39.23 | tensai | jsmith: I'll be doing an asterisk presentation at the IF lug sometime soon |
| 22:39.41 | graphyx | IF? |
| 22:39.43 | jsmith | tensai: Cool -- let me know when/where and I'll try to hook you up with some O'Reilly swag |
| 22:39.47 | graphyx | tensai: where are you located? |
| 22:39.50 | tensai | graphyx: idaho falls, id |
| 22:40.05 | graphyx | Ok. |
| 22:40.08 | tensai | jsmith: oooh, yeah |
| 22:40.15 | jsmith | tensai: I'm doing *another* Asterisk presentation on the 8th. |
| 22:40.26 | graphyx | jsmith: You getting paid to do this right? |
| 22:40.44 | tensai | but we may end up migrating at some point, though. we only have 30 licenses for ACD phones and we've used 28. |
| 22:40.45 | jsmith | graphyx: Yeah... I get paid by all the people who buy my book :-) |
| 22:40.59 | graphyx | right... $1/per |
| 22:41.02 | jsmith | tensai: I've upgraded 5 call centers to Asterisk |
| 22:41.08 | graphyx | ok that was bad syntax.. |
| 22:41.10 | jsmith | tensai: Around 500 seats total |
| 22:41.43 | tensai | to add more we have to upgrade our windows ACD software. the ACD upgrade requires a pbx upgrade. |
| 22:42.07 | tensai | the pbx upgrade won't carry over any of our settings, requiring us to put it all in from scratch |
| 22:42.18 | jsmith | Doing any really tricky ACD, or just plain jane kind of stuff? |
| 22:43.02 | tensai | define "tricky". I think it's just regular priority queues based on an IVR. |
| 22:43.24 | tensai | 3 queues right now, but we'd like to have more (but due to licensing...) |
| 22:46.01 | jsmith | Ahh... easy stuff then :-) |
| 22:47.13 | tensai | we've got an access-driven app that watches the queues and keeps track of lost calls, who's on break, etc. |
| 22:55.26 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@208-186-97-26.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 23:08.45 | levi | Gah, bitten by an uninitialized variable bug in C. At least it wasn't a very bad bite. |
