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| 00:07.21 | maquis | grrr |
| 00:07.30 | levi | Hmm? |
| 00:07.30 | maquis | my mail is going to /var/mail/erins |
| 00:07.46 | maquis | but i can't figure out how to make it work with procmail that way... |
| 00:08.01 | maquis | procmail claims to sort it into the right bin, but then i can't find the message |
| 00:08.34 | maquis | i'd like to use mbox, since that's something that makes senes |
| 00:10.42 | levi | mbox doesn't make a lot of sense, really, unless you delete all your mail after reading it. |
| 00:10.59 | maquis | i meant maildir |
| 00:11.05 | maquis | that's what i meant to say |
| 00:11.10 | levi | Ahh, okay. |
| 00:11.22 | maquis | i have an mbox sitting in my homedir that's been there since i installed, but i don't know what it's doing |
| 00:11.28 | maquis | it claims to be empty |
| 00:12.00 | maquis | btw, i like the fact that the mutt manpage lists bugs and fleas |
| 00:14.51 | levi | Heh. |
| 00:17.37 | maquis | ok... i got it to do it if i always start mutt with the -f Mail option |
| 00:22.03 | hans | wait, I just got here. You're resigning to start mutt with -f Mail every single time? |
| 00:22.07 | hans | whatever for? |
| 00:22.17 | maquis | hans: so far, yes |
| 00:22.48 | maquis | i have "set folder=~/Mail" in my .muttrc, but it's not listening to it |
| 00:23.05 | maquis | hans: quick question for you: do i use postfix to send mail, or do i have to use something else |
| 00:23.09 | maquis | ? |
| 00:25.17 | hans | from mutt? mutt uses your MTA |
| 00:25.24 | hans | so yes, postfix |
| 00:25.28 | hans | or whatever MTA you have. |
| 00:27.13 | maquis | hans: i'm not having any luck getting that to work |
| 00:27.21 | maquis | that's why i was curious... |
| 00:27.27 | hans | getting what to work? |
| 00:27.33 | maquis | sending |
| 00:27.50 | hans | test with mail |
| 00:27.54 | maquis | what do i have to put for "set sendmail=" |
| 00:27.56 | maquis | just postfix? |
| 00:27.59 | hans | mail -s foo you@examle.com |
| 00:28.22 | maquis | hans: tried that... nothing's getting logged to /var/log/mail.log nor is it arriving at the destination |
| 00:29.37 | maquis | i currently don't have anything set for "set sendmail=" in my muttrc |
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| 00:43.50 | hans | maquis: what distro is this. most have that sort of thing preconfigured |
| 00:46.57 | maquis | hans: ubuntu |
| 00:47.41 | maquis | hans: i doubt they have it preconfigured to send the mail to gmail :) |
| 00:52.03 | goozbach | blarg |
| 00:52.14 | goozbach | another $10 for a few hours of connectivity |
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| 01:06.15 | emcnabb | goozbach, when you were here, did you stay in Hotel Derek? |
| 01:07.07 | goozbach | no, but I thought about it |
| 01:07.45 | emcnabb | I think that's the biggest I've ever seen your name before |
| 01:08.28 | goozbach | heh |
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| 04:02.48 | mheath | North Korea: OK, We'll give up our nuclear *weapons* program, which could devestate all of Asia, potentially the USA, and cause WW3. But you need to leave us with a small, difficult to abuse, nuclear power plant so we have a good energy source. |
| 04:02.53 | mheath | US+Russia: UNACCEPTABLE! |
| 04:03.01 | mheath | North Korea: *shrug* OK. We'll keep our current unauthorized nuclear power plants, and our nuclear weapons program. Makes no difference to us. |
| 04:03.19 | Supaplex | mheath: yea, my thoughts exactly. |
| 04:05.04 | mheath | I guarantee you that we'll go to war with North Korea sometime in the next 25 years. |
| 04:05.31 | emcnabb | I'm guessing China will invade Taiwan before that |
| 04:05.42 | emcnabb | that will be the next major war |
| 04:06.12 | mheath | emcnabb, China's relations with North Korea might just spark North Korea's involvement in that affair, too |
| 04:06.21 | emcnabb | yes |
| 04:06.26 | mheath | Besides, the closest major deployment of US troups to china is IN south korea |
| 04:07.02 | mheath | I just hope Taiwan's leaders don't try to declare independance >.> |
| 04:07.24 | emcnabb | we'll see |
| 04:10.37 | Supaplex | (kakameme presidents)-- |
| 04:13.00 | maquis | too complicated, and i know too many people on each side |
| 04:13.45 | maquis | all i know is that last year, we had some chinese government officials that a chinese prof invited to the chinese house for dinner... and one of my roommates got into an argument and left the table in a huff and didn't come back until they were gone |
| 04:14.38 | maquis | granted, one of my other roommates accidentally caused the same reaction a few weeks before that by using a phrase that's popular on mainland china, and is looked down upon as a symbol of communism in taiwan |
| 04:16.01 | Supaplex | o.O |
| 04:17.29 | mheath | maquis, regardless of how you stand on the issue, let me tell you what will happen |
| 04:17.42 | mheath | President of Taiwan: We declare that we are an independent, free nation! |
| 04:17.45 | mheath | *BOOM* |
| 04:17.53 | mheath | Hopefully, you're anti-*BOOM*. |
| 04:18.52 | mheath | Death, and destruction |
| 04:19.08 | mheath | War against a country that we can never kill off, because they're born faster than we could hope to kill them |
| 04:19.24 | emcnabb | let's just kill ourselves now |
| 04:19.36 | emcnabb | we're all doomed! |
| 04:19.48 | mheath | heh |
| 04:19.50 | mheath | One things going for us |
| 04:20.01 | mheath | China depends heavily on imports from around the world |
| 04:20.05 | mheath | Mainly to feed their people |
| 04:20.14 | mheath | War == no imports |
| 04:20.26 | emcnabb | and we are heavily dependent on imports |
| 04:20.33 | emcnabb | our steel now comes from China |
| 04:20.43 | emcnabb | no steel = no battleships |
| 04:21.01 | mheath | emcnabb, heh, I'm sure you've heard of the World War II metal drives, right? |
| 04:21.06 | emcnabb | yup |
| 04:21.10 | emcnabb | but that only lasts so long |
| 04:21.12 | mheath | Scouts, etc. going around collecting pots and pans |
| 04:21.32 | Supaplex | they actually had so much, they had to throw alot away |
| 04:21.43 | mheath | China could build up a Naval fleet that could blow ours out of the water (litterally) very quickly |
| 04:21.51 | maquis | mheath: in high school, i wrote a paper claiming that the US and china were going to enter a cold-war... taiwan was one of the main issues involved |
| 04:22.05 | mheath | maquis, it's starting. |
| 04:22.06 | maquis | mheath: the thing is... china's going to be looking for a fight pretty soon |
| 04:22.21 | maquis | what else are they going to do with 15-million men who will *never* get married |
| 04:22.30 | maquis | (becaues there are far too many men and not nearly enough women) |
| 04:22.48 | emcnabb | at the same time though, China and they're people are loving economic success |
| 04:22.51 | emcnabb | a war would stop that |
| 04:22.53 | maquis | it's currently at the point where the difference is actually 15-million |
| 04:23.06 | mheath | maquis, the question for china is, though, how to you feed 15-million men hwo will never get married when you're not importing any food? |
| 04:23.42 | maquis | emcnabb: economic success is one thing... but if you don't have enough women, it's not going to satisfy people |
| 04:24.17 | emcnabb | well, there sure are a lot of single guys in this country, and many of them are happy |
| 04:24.37 | maquis | emcnabb: our culture's pretty different though |
| 04:24.41 | emcnabb | heck, every single waiter at the Cheesecake factory was gay |
| 04:25.12 | emcnabb | they've had a surplus of men for a long time |
| 04:25.19 | maquis | emcnabb: in china, homosexuality is amazingly scorned |
| 04:25.25 | emcnabb | I was joking |
| 04:25.41 | maquis | emcnabb: still... |
| 04:25.49 | mheath | china has the potential to build aircraft carriers rapidly |
| 04:25.58 | mheath | which means they could bring the fight to the USA easily |
| 04:26.34 | maquis | GAH! |
| 04:26.35 | mheath | They ended up with a few cold-war-era aircraft carries from the Soviet Union, that they've reportedly been studying so they can make their own. |
| 04:26.40 | maquis | ~lart postfix |
| 04:26.55 | emcnabb | if China were to start a war with the US (or Taiwan), most of the world would be against them (besides N.K. and a few others) |
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| 04:27.07 | mheath | emcnabb, but, guess what? |
| 04:27.13 | emcnabb | what mheath? |
| 04:27.18 | mheath | Unless we killed THOUSANDS a day, we'd never win |
| 04:27.36 | mheath | because new soldiers would be born, grown up, and trained faster than we could kill them |
| 04:27.47 | emcnabb | well, there are many BILLION more non-Chinese people in the world |
| 04:27.55 | emcnabb | and people don't reproduce like rabbits |
| 04:28.03 | emcnabb | maybe you haven't figured that out yet |
| 04:28.21 | mheath | emcnabb, look at the reproduction rates in China |
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| 04:28.47 | emcnabb | 1 billion chinese : 5 billion non-chinese |
| 04:29.00 | emcnabb | heck, 1 billion Indians |
| 04:29.03 | maquis | emcnabb: i wouldn't consider 4 to be "many" |
| 04:29.10 | mheath | emcnabb, enough chinese people are born consistently that, even if we killed off one every second, the chinese population would still be growing. |
| 04:29.36 | mheath | There is > 1 chinese baby born EVERY SECOND. |
| 04:29.44 | emcnabb | and those infants would immediately pick up a gun and kill people |
| 04:30.10 | mheath | emcnabb, no, but there would be millions of toddlers |
| 04:30.17 | mheath | and millions of children |
| 04:30.21 | mheath | and millions of teenagers |
| 04:30.22 | maquis | seeing as they're still rather restrictive on population growth in cities |
| 04:30.26 | mheath | and millions of adults going through basic training |
| 04:30.43 | maquis | and if we go in and start killing all the adults, the children would grow up hating us |
| 04:30.49 | mheath | For every one that dies, they could potentially push two more through basic training. |
| 04:30.50 | emcnabb | I understand the point you're trying to make |
| 04:30.56 | emcnabb | but it is overexaggerated |
| 04:31.06 | mheath | emcnabb, No |
| 04:31.16 | goozbach | EVERY point is overexaggerated |
| 04:31.21 | goozbach | :D |
| 04:31.26 | emcnabb | haha |
| 04:31.28 | mheath | "For every one that dies, they could potentially push two more through basic training" isn't exagerated |
| 04:31.30 | maquis | i agree that at this point it's overexaggerated... |
| 04:31.54 | goozbach | I'll tell you what's overexaggerated... |
| 04:32.09 | goozbach | the new background on my website: www.friocorte.com |
| 04:32.13 | maquis | but i think that mheath has a point in the future --- if china repeals their restrictions on reproduction, then they would definitely start reproducing like crazy |
| 04:32.58 | mheath | maquis, all my statements are based on current reproduction figures, not an estimate of what they'd be without the restrictions |
| 04:33.28 | mheath | Without the restrictions, you could have as many as 4-10 babies born every second |
| 04:33.57 | levi | goozbach: That page is wrong on so many levels. |
| 04:33.58 | emcnabb | one thing to remember is, that has nations become more developed, population rates go down |
| 04:34.24 | emcnabb | and when it comes down to it, do the people of china want to kill off the rest of the world |
| 04:34.26 | emcnabb | probably not |
| 04:34.32 | mheath | emcnabb, well, China was, for ages, way ahead of everyone else as far as development |
| 04:34.35 | mheath | and they keep up with everyone else |
| 04:34.38 | emcnabb | if their government wants them to, they will rebel |
| 04:34.42 | mheath | And their poulation rates haven't gone down |
| 04:34.51 | mheath | emcnabb, ...... |
| 04:34.55 | emcnabb | economic development |
| 04:34.59 | mheath | emcnabb, our discussion involved Taiwan. |
| 04:35.09 | mheath | <emcnabb> if their government wants them to, they will rebel |
| 04:35.10 | emcnabb | look at Europe, Japan, the whole west |
| 04:35.14 | mheath | LOOK AT TAIWAN. |
| 04:35.18 | mheath | How did Taiwan start? |
| 04:35.36 | mheath | People trying to rebel! |
| 04:35.45 | emcnabb | yup |
| 04:35.47 | mheath | They got miserably defeated |
| 04:36.49 | emcnabb | mheath, I think that the CIA could really use your brainpower; hurry up and graduate from high school so they can hire you |
| 04:38.06 | goozbach | levi: lets have some enumerations... |
| 04:38.21 | mheath | emcnabb, I'm just saying....you're suggesting people will rebel, when the entire discussion is based around a group that is the result of a failed rebellion |
| 04:39.13 | maquis | emcnabb: i'm not sure that the people will necessarily rebel against hte government |
| 04:39.24 | mheath | Lots of people in China have tried to rebel |
| 04:39.26 | maquis | not to mention the fact that if they were to have a battle, they'd be in good shape |
| 04:39.32 | mheath | Heres what would happen: |
| 04:39.37 | maquis | every single person goes through basic training |
| 04:39.46 | mheath | China: We hate you USA! We're declaring war! |
| 04:39.50 | maquis | my pen pal spent a year in the military, as did all of her classmates |
| 04:39.55 | mheath | *USA attacks China* |
| 04:40.09 | mheath | *Chinese people try to rebel and attack the Chinese government* |
| 04:40.28 | mheath | *The USA, now that there is nothing stopping them, enters and occupies China* |
| 04:40.51 | mheath | *The Chinese People hate these 'imperialists' occupying their country, and rebel against the interim USA government* |
| 04:41.06 | mheath | Thats what would happen if a rebellion went *well* |
| 04:41.32 | mheath | If they're upset by the Chinese government, they'd be just as upset by the US occupation. |
| 04:41.35 | maquis | i doubt the rebellion would go nearly that well |
| 04:41.45 | emcnabb | who said we would occupy them? |
| 04:42.14 | mheath | If they're upset by the Chinese government, they'd be just as upset by the US occupation. |
| 04:42.20 | mheath | er |
| 04:42.50 | mheath | emcnabb, You think the US government would just say "Well, yesterday we were in a major war with you, and today you have no government....well, Bye!" |
| 04:42.52 | mheath | ? |
| 04:43.21 | maquis | mheath: that's what a lot of people want us to do in iraq |
| 04:43.30 | maquis | despite the stupidity of that idea |
| 04:43.35 | maquis | (particulraly in the middle east) |
| 04:43.43 | emcnabb | let them deal with the mess |
| 04:43.55 | maquis | i can see that it might work in china |
| 04:44.00 | goozbach | I wish that good movies wouldn't start so late |
| 04:44.00 | levi | goozbach: The most glaring thing is the scrolling box on the right. Yow. |
| 04:44.20 | mheath | emcnabb, what happened the last time we did that? |
| 04:44.20 | maquis | leaving the middle-east to figure out its own mess is asking for trouble |
| 04:44.34 | emcnabb | goozbach, awesome page |
| 04:44.37 | mheath | "Heres the money you owe us for the war. You can't have weapons, or a large army." |
| 04:44.37 | goozbach | levi: that is kinda a pain |
| 04:44.43 | levi | goozbach: After that, probably the background image. It's really high-contrast and draws attention away from the actual content. |
| 04:44.51 | mheath | "Other than that, you're on your own. We'll leave you alone!" |
| 04:45.04 | goozbach | it's supposed to be just an exerpt |
| 04:45.26 | levi | goozbach: I'd make the title text a little bigger... right now, it's totally obscured by a combination of its small size, the funky font, and the noisy background. |
| 04:45.35 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (n=zaphod@c-24-2-80-89.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 04:45.54 | emcnabb | goozbach, that really kills my eyes :-) |
| 04:47.56 | mheath | goozbach, to be honest, I hate it =P |
| 04:48.50 | Supaplex | yea, my eyes hurt to, but for a different reason |
| 04:49.19 | goozbach | I was just curious about the background image. now I can tell that that idea isn't a good one. |
| 04:49.31 | levi | goozbach: What I usually do is go looking at sites that catalog the designs of other sites. I can usually find some really good ideas that way. |
| 04:49.40 | emcnabb | mheath, I understand your points |
| 04:49.54 | emcnabb | it was good talking to you, but I have to hit the hay |
| 04:50.04 | emcnabb | I'm out east, so it's late for me |
| 04:50.07 | emcnabb | :-) |
| 04:50.15 | levi | goozbach: Be on the lookout for color combinations that go well together, layouts that look good, and different fonts. |
| 04:50.31 | goozbach | I was just playing |
| 04:50.40 | goozbach | methinks it looks better now |
| 04:50.51 | goozbach | as it was |
| 04:50.59 | mheath | And your CIA comment, while sarcastic, was interesting in that I'll have a top secret security clearance in the military in a year |
| 04:51.22 | emcnabb | good to hear |
| 04:51.43 | emcnabb | go fight off those communists! |
| 04:52.13 | linuxalien | The military is cool |
| 04:53.47 | mheath | I am a United States Sailor :) |
| 04:53.50 | maquis | mheath: you rock! |
| 04:54.26 | linuxalien | Right on mheath. That sounds like a fun job. |
| 04:54.41 | mheath | maquis, uh...ok.. O.o |
| 04:55.05 | levi | goozbach: This is a cool place to find site designs: http://cssvault.com/ |
| 04:55.14 | mheath | www.oswd.org |
| 04:55.17 | mheath | Look there too. |
| 04:55.40 | maquis | goozbach: :-D |
| 04:56.09 | mheath | From the looks of that cssvault site........owsd.org is more likely to provide you with something that would be more appropriate for a personal site |
| 04:56.23 | mheath | That cssvault stuff looks too showy/commercialish |
| 04:56.42 | levi | A lot of it is, but you can get good ideas from it. |
| 04:56.49 | mheath | maquis, Thats just because I'll know a wide variety of navigation information related to US Navy ships |
| 04:57.03 | mheath | Potentially know where ships are going to go months in advance, etc. |
| 04:57.09 | maquis | nice |
| 04:57.13 | mheath | Thats the only reason I need a security clearance |
| 04:57.15 | levi | Obviously you aren't going to use the design straight as it is. That'd be bad. |
| 04:57.41 | levi | I'm not crazy about many oswd designs. |
| 04:58.39 | *** join/#utah colera (n=colera@158.91.203.5) |
| 04:58.52 | levi | I guess there are more good ones there now than there used to be. |
| 04:59.10 | mheath | I am a United States Sailor. I will support and defend the constitution of the United States of America, and obey the orders of those appointed over me. I represent the fighting spirit of the Navy, and those who have gone before me to defend freedom and democracy around the world. I proudly serve my country's Navy combat team with honor, courage, and commitment. I am committed to excellence, and the fair treatment of all. :) |
| 04:59.52 | levi | Actually, there are some really impressive ones in the 'most popular' section. |
| 05:00.35 | mheath | levi, those change often, too, and all the former "most popular" ones are just as good. |
| 05:01.09 | levi | mheath: Well, the last time I looked at it, it was all stuff like the ones on the front page of the site, which I was never very impressed with. |
| 05:01.36 | mheath | levi, the frontpage of the sight is just the last 3 or so submitted designs |
| 05:02.17 | levi | Er, not the front page, the browse page. |
| 05:02.22 | levi | I guess it defaults to 'oldest'. |
| 05:02.35 | mheath | levi, yeah. Those ones are years old |
| 05:02.42 | mheath | Those designs WERE good looking for their time. |
| 05:02.55 | levi | I was never crazy about them. |
| 05:05.46 | mheath | g'night... |
| 05:07.52 | linuxalien | goodnight |
| 05:25.06 | goozbach | any opinion on the small grey background? |
| 05:28.44 | goozbach | ~lart good movies on late |
| 05:29.02 | maquis | goozbach: you want to fix postfix and i'll watch the movie? |
| 05:31.04 | xbmodder | maquis, qmail is much easier for n00bs |
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| 06:06.05 | findlay | so, what have you decided while I was gone? |
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| 13:11.54 | graphyx | morning.. |
| 13:11.58 | graphyx | Nice rain we are having. |
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| 13:39.10 | hans | oh no, we stuck |
| 13:44.51 | graphyx | so hans tell me this. |
| 13:45.14 | graphyx | when I do ps aux there is a pid listed there. What happens if you get a full 32K processes going? |
| 13:45.27 | graphyx | you can't run any more precesses? like a fork bomb? |
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| 13:46.22 | hans | if you have 32k at once, yeah |
| 13:46.31 | graphyx | k |
| 13:46.33 | hans | if you just mean the pid, it rolls over and starts using unused ones |
| 13:46.40 | hans | you can change the limits, too |
| 13:46.43 | hans | i think |
| 13:46.53 | hans | at kernel compile time for sure, but I think at runtime too |
| 13:47.00 | graphyx | Ok. |
| 13:47.01 | graphyx | Thanks. |
| 13:49.28 | Newsome | blah. Another job opportunity where they request my resume in Word format. |
| 13:52.39 | dataw0lf | mheath: Wrong. |
| 13:52.55 | dataw0lf | bah he left. |
| 13:54.53 | hans | so I have to decide. get yet another credit union account at a local cu, or work with one of my 3 CUs remotely? |
| 13:55.48 | dataw0lf | graphyx: improperly killed defunct processes can and will fill up your pid table |
| 13:56.11 | dataw0lf | http://dataw0lf.org/code/cleandefunct.py |
| 13:56.29 | hans | and play with your mind. one box has a load average of at least 3 even though it's lightly loaded, because 3 processes are in an uninterruptable wait state |
| 13:56.40 | dataw0lf | happens alot on Tru64 4.0f w/ some military applications if you don't clean it up regularly |
| 13:56.45 | dataw0lf | hans: I'd stay local |
| 13:56.58 | dataw0lf | hans: I keep my savings account in an overseas bank account still. |
| 13:57.02 | dataw0lf | and it's a real pain |
| 13:57.33 | hans | we'll only consider the remote ones if there's a way to get money/checks in without mailing or extra charges |
| 13:57.50 | hans | e.g. an ATM. there might be for the santa fe credit union, we're not so far from them. |
| 13:58.36 | hans | what I don't get is why everybody doesn't use credit unions. why do some people use banks? |
| 13:58.55 | dataw0lf | *shrug* that's an excellent question |
| 14:02.13 | hans | another mystery of the universe |
| 14:15.47 | graphyx | dataw0lf: Thanks for the code. I have a server here (managed by someone else) that just gets 100's of defunct processes. Don't know why the dev doesn't clean up his code... but whatever.. |
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| 14:22.08 | dataw0lf | graphyx: no problem |
| 14:23.53 | hans | graphyx: because he hasn't been hit with a stick enough times? |
| 14:25.02 | dataw0lf | hans: most likely. |
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| 15:05.29 | levi | Wheeeeeee, the delivery guys are installing our new fridge. The old one decided to stop working. |
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| 16:08.45 | emcnabb | well, it looks like they're closing down the training center tomorrow morning |
| 16:08.58 | emcnabb | it will be a short class this week |
| 16:09.26 | goozbach | emcnabb: don't get blown away |
| 16:11.15 | mrpull- | emcnabb: what training center? |
| 16:12.45 | graphyx | houston. |
| 16:12.45 | emcnabb | in Houston |
| 16:13.10 | emcnabb | it's supposed to hit Friday night / Saturday morning but businesses are all preparing |
| 16:13.27 | emcnabb | most hotels in Austin are already all booked |
| 16:14.01 | sjansen | emcnabb: I hear you're going to try for a hard push to finish class today. |
| 16:14.21 | maquis | emcnabb: that'll be a quick class... |
| 16:14.34 | emcnabb | yup |
| 16:14.38 | emcnabb | quick lunch |
| 16:14.51 | emcnabb | we may stay a little late too |
| 16:15.11 | emcnabb | over half of the students have already left anyway |
| 16:16.06 | maquis | emcnabb: at least it's scheduled as a 4-day class instead of a 5-day :) |
| 16:20.01 | goozbach | that's nothing... I'm scheduled to teach 10days of content in 4 days next week |
| 16:20.22 | Jayce^ | that's why you drink so much caffeine |
| 16:20.33 | maquis | goozbach: for what? |
| 16:20.35 | maquis | where? |
| 16:20.36 | maquis | why? |
| 16:21.41 | goozbach | maquis: a semi-custom class for a large organsization |
| 16:21.53 | maquis | goozbach: cool... what on? |
| 16:21.57 | goozbach | Jayce^: I AM the man for the job |
| 16:22.06 | goozbach | Linux for UNIX admins |
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| 16:29.09 | sjansen | goozbach: wow. I only have 6 days to cover in 4 |
| 16:30.11 | maquis | ok... can someone explain this to me |
| 16:30.23 | maquis | i've got a bunch of profs who have macs |
| 16:30.41 | maquis | but when they do presentations, they use powerpoint instead of keynote |
| 16:30.54 | graphyx | Umm.. they have been brainwashed by microsoft? |
| 16:30.58 | sjansen | professors don't like learning new things |
| 16:31.19 | maquis | if you're going to sit there and do powerpoint slides on a mac, you might as well use the really cool things that keynote provides (like insanely cool transitions) |
| 16:31.23 | tensai | "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach." |
| 16:31.27 | maquis | my dad uses keynote... |
| 16:31.32 | Jayce^ | keynote is faar nicer (if you are using a proprietary slideshow) |
| 16:31.32 | maquis | tensai: ouch! |
| 16:31.42 | maquis | Jayce^: yeah... |
| 16:31.49 | Jayce^ | tensai, that's a mean thing to say about sjansen and goozbach :) |
| 16:31.50 | sjansen | tensai: that's my line |
| 16:31.51 | maquis | their transitions amaze me |
| 16:32.11 | tensai | Jayce^: don't forget emcnabb! |
| 16:32.17 | maquis | particularly the fact that the transitions actually go at a good speed |
| 16:32.25 | Jayce^ | yeah, but he deserves it... :-p |
| 16:32.44 | maquis | i like the one where it turns the page, and you can see the text on the back of the page... |
| 16:33.50 | goozbach | If I could do, do you think I'd be teaching |
| 16:33.51 | goozbach | ? |
| 16:34.17 | goozbach | a lot can be said for creative hand waving |
| 16:34.20 | goozbach | :) |
| 16:34.42 | maquis | the gurus are better at explaining things than any of my profs are |
| 16:34.55 | sjansen | that's why we're paid less |
| 16:35.09 | hans | that's cuz your profs don't have the magic guru sauce. |
| 16:35.35 | maquis | hans: actually, it's enlightenment putty :) |
| 16:35.38 | tensai | every time I see a powerpoint presentation I think of Homer's star wipes. " Why eat hamburger when you can have steak?" |
| 16:36.13 | maquis | every time i see a keynote presentation, i think "oooooooohhhhh" |
| 16:36.47 | tensai | ~sjansen++ |
| 16:36.51 | goozbach | er presentation |
| 16:37.14 | hans | the profs here all seem to use good ol' blackboards |
| 16:37.24 | hans | chalk, green, the works |
| 16:37.39 | Jayce^ | high pitched squeals? |
| 16:37.41 | hans | every time I see slides, I take a nap |
| 16:38.07 | hans | hearing the teacher through the wall frantically going at the chalkboard from time to time |
| 16:38.15 | hans | the works |
| 16:38.32 | hans | they seem to be good at not getting chalk all over themselves, though. that's disappointing. |
| 16:38.34 | maquis | hans: powerpoint isn't too bad if they turn down the lights... i like coding in the dark |
| 16:38.45 | hans | bet the people behind you hate it |
| 16:38.58 | goozbach | hans: you should see me with dry-erase |
| 16:38.59 | hans | your code is probably much more interesting than their slides. |
| 16:39.09 | goozbach | I come out a technicolor mess |
| 16:39.26 | Jayce^ | still, a powerpoint slideshow is usally still better than the old *real* slideshows.. |
| 16:39.33 | hans | goozbach and the technicolor whiteboard! |
| 16:39.36 | Jayce^ | I actually had a teacher that still did that my first year of college |
| 16:39.44 | maquis | hans: sometimes... although i usually pull that off in non-cs classes, where it just confuses the people behind me |
| 16:39.49 | Jayce^ | hans, going to have donny play the part of goozbach? |
| 16:39.54 | hans | Jayce^: like the ol' primary slideshows? |
| 16:40.01 | Jayce^ | yeah.. |
| 16:40.07 | goozbach | but Jayce^ they didn't have digital projectors back then... |
| 16:40.10 | goozbach | :) |
| 16:40.10 | hans | Jayce^: no, we'll have marie put on a beard and drink lots of caffeine |
| 16:40.15 | hans | donny's busy |
| 16:40.33 | Jayce^ | *I closed my eyes... drew back the firewall... to ping for certain... what I thought I grokked..* |
| 16:41.36 | hans | *I thought they knew... I thought they heard me... guess they didn't hear me... what a bunch of sloths* |
| 16:42.09 | hans | goozbach: some music to go through your head when you're trying to remember where you were going with that one point |
| 16:42.14 | Jayce^ | *goo goo goo gooozbach you know what they say... traceroute6 goozbach you'll make it someday...* |
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| 16:42.51 | Jayce^ | *sha-la la goozbach you're doing fine.. you and your kernel are ahead of your time...* |
| 16:43.18 | Jayce^ | maquis, at least you didn't realize that after you heard the professor ask you a question |
| 16:43.38 | maquis | Jayce^: true |
| 16:43.49 | hans | i was so tired yesterday, I kept falling asleep in class |
| 16:43.54 | maquis | the only question this prof ever asks is "are there any questions?" |
| 16:43.59 | hans | so I got out my laptop and was able to half-pay attention. better than sleeping. |
| 16:44.09 | maquis | he also says "sorry" at least once a minute, i swear |
| 16:44.20 | hans | seamons? |
| 16:45.13 | tensai | laptops with games are salvation from boring lectures |
| 16:45.20 | maquis | hans: no morse |
| 16:45.25 | maquis | seamons is cool |
| 16:45.32 | tensai | for both you and the people directly behind you |
| 16:45.35 | maquis | tensai: i need to find some good games |
| 16:45.48 | tensai | maquis: just don't forget to mute before you start |
| 16:45.55 | maquis | tensai: good point |
| 16:46.26 | tensai | maelstrom was my drug^W game of choice |
| 16:47.09 | hans | cool. nws is broke. it says today's high is -18C |
| 16:48.10 | graphyx | I watched another person play tetris on his phone for the duration of sunday school. |
| 16:48.14 | graphyx | Why even come? |
| 16:48.18 | maquis | hans: didn't you bring your coat? |
| 16:48.38 | graphyx | Well I didn't watch him the entire time or why even come myself. Just noticed that he had played continually. |
| 16:49.23 | goozbach | http://www.vergenet.net/~conrad/text/underwear_fifo.html should be SFW |
| 16:49.33 | maquis | dr morse just explained to us that we're going to do the same type of thing in this class that we did in cs236 |
| 16:49.38 | maquis | the entire class started groaning |
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| 16:51.23 | graphyx | sjansen you memorized your entire pgp key? Or do you mean the passphrase? |
| 16:52.56 | goozbach | graphyx: I think he memorized the ascii armored gpg key |
| 16:53.10 | goozbach | all 4096bits of it |
| 16:53.31 | graphyx | 512 bytes of ascii... not my idea of a good time. |
| 16:53.34 | sjansen | goozbach: sorry to disappoint, just the passphrase |
| 16:54.26 | goozbach | ohh what's that? 8 char? |
| 16:54.30 | goozbach | :) |
| 16:55.02 | goozbach | sjansen: you need a kerberized gpg client. for single sign in purposes :0 |
| 16:55.17 | sjansen | 19 |
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| 17:02.44 | lukfugl | guten morgen |
| 17:03.38 | dataw0lf | Donnie, you're out of your element. |
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| 17:41.32 | hans | morgen |
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| 18:08.04 | sjansen | o/~ So I'm having a wonderful time but I'd rather be whistling in the dark. ~/o |
| 18:09.05 | hans | ~blind sjansen |
| 18:09.13 | dataw0lf | They might be giants, no? |
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| 18:11.09 | SpecialZ | ~lart maquis |
| 18:11.11 | sjansen | dataw0lf: yup |
| 18:12.55 | maquis | ~lart SpecialZ |
| 18:12.59 | sjansen | "This can only end in tears." |
| 18:13.06 | maquis | sjansen: very carefully :) |
| 18:13.50 | maquis | ok... weird issue... |
| 18:15.28 | maquis | my computer will go into suspend sometimes, but other times it just refuses to suspend |
| 18:15.47 | maquis | it appears to be that the first time that i do it after rebooting, it will suspend fine |
| 18:16.03 | maquis | but then, after i come back from suspend, if i try to suspend again, it won't... |
| 18:16.10 | maquis | has anyone ever seen anything like that? |
| 18:16.33 | sjansen | any suspend issues are almost certainly driver issues |
| 18:17.19 | maquis | it worked fine when i was running debian |
| 18:17.26 | maquis | ubuntu isn't liking it, though |
| 18:18.13 | sjansen | ubuntu knows you said mean things about it |
| 18:19.23 | hans | you didn't wave your chicken vigorously enough |
| 18:23.02 | maquis | sjansen: how do you get the kernel sources the "right" way in ubuntu? |
| 18:23.45 | sjansen | No idea. I'm too lazy to use my own kernel. |
| 18:23.50 | hans | maquis: don't be confused. there's the distro way, and the other ways |
| 18:23.56 | hans | the "right" way is entirely a personal choice |
| 18:24.06 | maquis | hans: the distro way |
| 18:24.18 | maquis | i want it configured the way that my current existing kernel is |
| 18:24.19 | hans | for me, the "right" way is vanilla sources with realtime-preempt patch and the vanilla's make install target |
| 18:24.19 | sjansen | dataw0lf is the Ubuntu expert around here |
| 18:24.21 | maquis | since that mostly works |
| 18:24.38 | maquis | there are only a few things i want to change from how it's currently configured |
| 18:24.44 | hans | any 2.6 kernel will take the running configuration as a template if no .config exists |
| 18:24.48 | maquis | and i don't want to go through and reconfigure from scratch |
| 18:25.06 | maquis | although, i guess there's a config file in /boot that i just noticed |
| 18:25.13 | hans | but if you build your own, don't forget to deal with the initrd problem. (either make an initrd, or compile in what you need to get to your root filesystem) |
| 18:25.41 | maquis | hans: what exactly is involved in making an initrd? |
| 18:25.52 | hans | too much. just compile in the ide/atapi stuff. |
| 18:25.56 | hans | and ext2/3 |
| 18:26.09 | maquis | mmk |
| 18:26.26 | hans | or whatever your root filesystem is. |
| 18:29.48 | hans | good luck with that |
| 18:29.58 | maquis | thanks... |
| 18:30.01 | maquis | from what i can tell, i'll need it |
| 18:30.13 | sjansen | I hear mheath's is pretty killer. |
| 18:30.43 | goozbach | maquis: caoslinux |
| 18:30.51 | goozbach | vapoix |
| 18:30.59 | goozbach | vaporware linux that is |
| 18:31.59 | maquis | goozbach: i see a couple places to download caoslinux, but i'm not seeing any info about it |
| 18:32.34 | goozbach | methinks it's one of those "dead before birth" distros |
| 18:33.28 | maquis | goozbach: ah... |
| 18:33.37 | goozbach | rpm based, community oriented, and bleeding edge is what it's motto was supposed to be |
| 18:33.57 | maquis | i've heard lots of good things about slack |
| 18:34.00 | synic | ack. |
| 18:34.03 | synic | slack sucks. |
| 18:34.04 | dataw0lf | meh |
| 18:34.09 | dataw0lf | agreed. |
| 18:34.21 | maquis | synic: dataw0lf: why? |
| 18:34.35 | synic | maquis: no package manager. |
| 18:34.41 | dataw0lf | it's good for a beginner, that's about it. |
| 18:34.52 | dataw0lf | I mean, it's all personal preference for Desktop usage... so... |
| 18:34.59 | maquis | synic: so, everything's compiled manually from source? |
| 18:35.15 | synic | no, it has binaries, but they don't even inform you if you don't have a dependancy. |
| 18:35.25 | maquis | synic: ah... |
| 18:35.29 | dataw0lf | but for anything besides desktop use Slackware doesn't fit the bill. |
| 18:36.03 | maquis | what's good, and not gentoo and not debian? |
| 18:36.03 | synic | maquis: most slack users don't even use the binaries anyway |
| 18:36.25 | hans | maquis: go with qnx |
| 18:36.31 | dataw0lf | other than Debian? |
| 18:36.41 | dataw0lf | hm |
| 18:36.43 | dataw0lf | nothing? |
| 18:36.46 | dataw0lf | :) |
| 18:36.54 | dataw0lf | Give FreeBSD a whirl. |
| 18:37.08 | maquis | dataw0lf: i've heard good things about it |
| 18:37.18 | maquis | doesn't it use something like portage for package-management? |
| 18:37.41 | hans | bsd ports is the original |
| 18:38.32 | sjansen | maquis: have you tried Windows? It has much better hardware support. |
| 18:38.49 | maquis | ~lart sjansen |
| 18:38.52 | sjansen | I'd suggest Mac OS X, but I don't think you can run it on your thinkpad. |
| 18:39.12 | maquis | i've used windoze and osX |
| 18:39.27 | maquis | i prefer linux, but i'm looking for the right version |
| 18:41.03 | levi | You might be able to run a pirated Intel OS X on your thinkpad. |
| 18:41.20 | hans | maquis: do LFS |
| 18:41.44 | maquis | hans: i have considered that, but i'll probably have to wait until after the semester's over for that |
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| 18:42.43 | levi | Poor maquis, locked in a futile battle to tame her Linux laptop. |
| 18:44.15 | hans | so many variables. obscure or mainstream? good package management or cute dialog boxes? binary or source? warm fuzzy or pragmatic? |
| 18:44.27 | emcnabb | maquis, sure have had a lot of problems so far :-( |
| 18:46.02 | maquis | emcnabb: |
| 18:46.32 | maquis | emcnabb: yeah... |
| 18:46.44 | maquis | i kinda miss gentoo |
| 18:48.02 | maquis | i dunno |
| 18:48.04 | emcnabb | you could always use it again |
| 18:48.17 | maquis | yeah.. i just have to find the time to set it up |
| 18:48.21 | maquis | which is the hard prart |
| 18:48.34 | maquis | but there are still some things i don't like about it... |
| 18:48.44 | dataw0lf | that's unfortunate. |
| 18:48.49 | dataw0lf | but welcome to the world of computing. |
| 18:48.56 | maquis | yeah |
| 18:48.56 | dataw0lf | The honest truth is nothing is perfect. |
| 18:49.00 | dataw0lf | you just have to find what you like best. |
| 18:49.10 | levi | maquis: At some point, you will come to the realization that you are far more flexible than the software, and you'll just pick something that works as delivered and deal with it. |
| 18:50.11 | emcnabb | see ya sjansen |
| 18:50.13 | maquis | sjansen: i thought it was C |
| 18:50.18 | emcnabb | it was nice knowing you :-) |
| 18:50.23 | levi | maquis: Hah! |
| 18:50.43 | sjansen | maquis: you haven't done enough programming in C |
| 18:50.46 | levi | sjansen: There is no perfect programming language. Have fun looking, though! |
| 18:51.03 | maquis | sjansen: yeah... i know... |
| 18:51.24 | maquis | sjansen: when you find the perfect programming language, let me know |
| 18:51.29 | sjansen | C is better than Java, VB, Pascal, C++... |
| 18:51.33 | maquis | i'll keep my eyes open for the perfect distro |
| 18:51.42 | maquis | anything's better than VB |
| 18:51.48 | sjansen | levi: You're right. I guess I'll just have to create my own. |
| 18:52.07 | dataw0lf | sjansen: you should package it with mheath's distro. |
| 18:52.12 | sjansen | I'll call it Quixote, or perhaps Greenspun. |
| 18:52.25 | levi | sjansen: Then you'll have another imperfect language and a lot less time. It might be fun, though! Just don't try to release it. |
| 18:53.06 | emcnabb | dataw0lf, and run it on a Hurd kernel |
| 18:54.00 | dataw0lf | emcnabb: omgz!1! |
| 18:54.17 | levi | sjansen: I don't think C is better than C++ anymore. C++ patches some of C's faults, and creates some of its own, so I think it ends up being a wash. But C++ gives you facilities to make safer programs more easily, so I prefer it. |
| 18:54.37 | dataw0lf | I use C when it's needed. |
| 18:54.39 | dataw0lf | Rarely. |
| 18:54.41 | levi | emcnabb: Not just the HURD, the HURD on L4. |
| 18:54.41 | dataw0lf | for low level stuff. |
| 18:54.48 | emcnabb | levi, haha |
| 18:54.52 | dataw0lf | but I certainly prefer it over C++ |
| 18:55.08 | levi | C is useful as an intermediary language, for portability purposes. |
| 18:55.45 | levi | But, since gcc is getting to run just about anywhere, it's probably wiser to target gcc's own intermediary language rather than dealing with C. |
| 19:51.58 | maquis | grr |
| 19:54.11 | levi | I was up until 3:30 doing stupid English homework. :/ |
| 20:17.24 | goozbach | maquis: I could tell you I've had VERY few problems running Fedora Core on my laptop |
| 20:18.12 | goozbach | tis unfortunate you're having so many problems. you own one of the best linux running laptops avalible |
| 20:19.02 | levi | Which really emphasizes the sad state of affairs in Linux Laptopland. |
| 20:19.11 | levi | I wonder how well that new Dell that ships with Linux works. |
| 20:19.57 | goozbach | levi: I was making the correlation that it MAY NOT be linux :) |
| 20:20.55 | levi | Well, it almost certainly /is/ Linux, for some suitable definition of 'Linux'. |
| 20:21.38 | levi | The problem is that even if a distro was certified to work on the laptop, Maquis would go and recompile the kernel and run some entirely different set of software, and it would break again. ;) |
| 20:22.28 | levi | There is probably some configuration of software that falls under the broad umbrella of 'Linux' that would make everything work as it was intended to. |
| 20:23.41 | goozbach | yes yes insunation |
| 20:23.45 | goozbach | that word |
| 20:24.33 | levi | If you insist on modifying everything to suit your whim, things are just not going to work properly without a lot of effort. The amazing amount of configurability and customizability in the Linux world means that quite a few of the possible combinations of things don't actually work together. |
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| 20:25.37 | goozbach | sjansen: it IS a bit bright here in this classroom |
| 20:25.55 | goozbach | esp after the basement vault they stuck me in last week |
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| 21:08.49 | graphyx | ~emulate gir |
| 21:08.51 | ibot | dooom doooom doom |
| 21:27.34 | graphyx | ~emulate ESR |
| 21:28.11 | graphyx | ~emulate sjansen |
| 21:28.13 | ibot | ACTION beats graphyx to a bloody pulp with some well crafted XML weapons |
| 21:28.31 | graphyx | Yeah that looks about right. |
| 21:30.43 | sjansen | is "weapons" kinda redundant there? |
| 21:31.06 | sjansen | I mean, at the point I start beating you with it, it sort becomes a defacto weapon. |
| 21:31.25 | graphyx | hey, I didn't write it. |
| 21:33.07 | hans | man, this lady at the credit union is talking me in circles (by email) |
| 21:33.28 | graphyx | Just be sure to talk her in tighter circles.. and then you have won. |
| 21:35.39 | hans | can I open a business account? yeah, we need business license and you can open a DBA account. cool, is that ok for both sole-proprietor and s-corp? if you're a sole-proprietor we need your EIN. Ok, I don't have an EIN. I'm probably incorportating anyway, what about s-corp? We can't do sole proprietor without an EIN no exceptions, but your alternative is a DBA account... |
| 21:50.34 | goozbach | I jumped up a little too quickly |
| 21:51.42 | hans | ~pet goozbach |
| 21:54.32 | sjansen | ~slap hans |
| 21:54.35 | ibot | ACTION slaps hans, keep your grubby fingers to yourself! |
| 22:05.20 | *** join/#utah drewbono (n=andrew@c-24-2-95-76.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 22:19.07 | goozbach | WOOT!!! I just created some rpms of very cool tools |
| 22:19.07 | goozbach | scpjailer and scponly |
| 22:21.39 | Tene | rssh is nifty too |
| 22:22.26 | goozbach | hmm... I'll have to give that one a try |
| 22:31.27 | mrpull- | anybody use xmission for a shell account? I cant reach them now. |
| 22:40.19 | Tene | I use them for datacenter stuff |
| 22:46.04 | RyanE | mrpull-: I can get there |
| 22:46.13 | RyanE | of course, that was 15 minutes ago that you asked... :) |
| 22:50.01 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@adsl-65-67-7-97.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) |
| 22:57.10 | *** join/#utah RyanE_ (n=ryan@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 22:57.27 | mrpull- | RyanE: i'm back in action |
| 23:12.22 | sjansen | What's up with Amazon taking nearly a month to deliver my stuff? |
| 23:13.34 | emcnabb | sjansen, you should as maquis |
| 23:13.37 | emcnabb | ask |
| 23:15.24 | sjansen | next time I'll just shop on amazon and buy from bookpool |
| 23:20.05 | sjansen | http://www.bookpool.com/covers/319/0321294319_500.gif |
| 23:20.43 | scott | so is Sin City a total knock-off of Max Payne or do they both have a common ancestor? |
| 23:31.07 | *** join/#utah SpecialZ (n=Scott@byu290118wks.byu.edu) |
| 23:36.33 | SpecialZ | ~lart maquis |
| 23:36.37 | JoshH | sin city is based on the sin city comics |
| 23:36.45 | JoshH | and is a pretty faithful screen adaptation |
| 23:37.00 | JoshH | sin city was probably an influence for max payne, if anything |
| 23:41.19 | scott | are there other movies that have that comic book feel? |
| 23:42.06 | hans | i haven't seen sin city or read the comics, but there are a number of movies that aim for a comic book feel, aren't there? |
| 23:42.24 | hans | batman movies, dick tracy |
| 23:42.24 | hans | etc |
| 23:42.28 | JoshH | sin city looks more like a comic book than any other movie i have seen. |
| 23:42.33 | *** join/#utah xbmodder_lappy (i=nobody@dsl092-015-136.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 23:42.37 | xbmodder_lappy | http://www.ee.udel.edu/~durbano/humor.htm#10 |
