| 00:17.31 | *** join/#utah ned (n=ned@cpe-66-87-18-36.ut.sprintbbd.net) |
| 00:24.48 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@70-57-88-8.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 00:49.00 | goozbach | that took entirely too long to get home |
| 00:49.23 | goozbach | ~lart byu game traffic |
| 00:49.46 | emcnabb | goozbach, I got out right in time |
| 00:50.25 | bucky | that's why you should ride your bicycle |
| 00:51.48 | goozbach | from BYU to Magna? |
| 00:52.15 | goozbach | I'd still be in am fork right now |
| 00:52.38 | bucky | put your bike on the rack on the front of the bus |
| 00:52.54 | emcnabb | you'd be in Lehi by now |
| 00:52.58 | mheath | Remember to fly your flags at half mast tomorrow, everyone. |
| 01:03.46 | *** join/#utah {-} (n=sjansen@h4607f305.area7.spcsdns.net) |
| 01:04.34 | mheath | This is offtopic, but does anyone here happen to play the drums? |
| 01:05.05 | bucky | http://www.buckfush.com/images/bush_Katrina_Spin.jpg |
| 01:05.40 | mheath | bucky, thats not funny |
| 01:06.05 | mheath | Patriot Day isn't anything at all, really, its just an anual day that he releases a statement asking for a moment of silence and to fly your flags at half mast. |
| 01:06.40 | mheath | And Patriot Day was conceived and allowed by Congress, not by Bush. |
| 01:09.36 | scott | so why were the flags at half mast today? |
| 01:09.58 | mheath | I don't know. |
| 01:10.09 | mheath | I've been wondering that myself. |
| 01:10.38 | mheath | If you want to know how you *should* be flying your flag, look at a government building. |
| 01:12.30 | mheath | Heh, I don't fly the flag on a daily basis. |
| 01:13.54 | scott | I've been thinking lately that Math and Writing may become the most useless things we teach in elementary school as technology improves. |
| 01:14.14 | mheath | scott, I disagree. |
| 01:14.30 | mheath | Elementary school level math remains the most useful in todays technological world |
| 01:14.51 | mheath | The basic concepts of addition, substraction, multiplication, and division are crucical for many day-to-day activities |
| 01:15.30 | mheath | Higher level mathematics, though, are another story. |
| 01:15.33 | scott | Writing because keyboards (and screens, i.e. laptops and the like) may become so common place that there will no longer be a reason to write on paper |
| 01:15.57 | scott | oh, I agree with that. do they teach geometry in elementary school? |
| 01:16.05 | scott | I mean like finding the area of circles and cones etc |
| 01:16.28 | sjansen | Yay! I can trade miles for a subscription to the Economist! |
| 01:16.37 | mheath | scott, when I was in elementary school, I believe we briefly touched on geometry in the 6th grade. |
| 01:16.41 | scott | sjansen, I can give you a free subscription |
| 01:16.54 | sjansen | scott: ? |
| 01:17.00 | scott | sjansen: electronic only that is |
| 01:17.26 | scott | mheath: I swear we did area of circle stuff in 4th or 5th |
| 01:17.29 | sjansen | Oh, thanks, but I get one free with the dead tree version. |
| 01:18.00 | scott | how many miles for it? |
| 01:18.08 | sjansen | 3,900 |
| 01:18.23 | mheath | I'm personally in favor of doing away with traditional highschool mathematics and replacing them with courses like "Applied Mathematics" (teaches you mathetmatics that will be useful for day-to-day life) and "Computer Mathematics" (How to use calculators and computers for more complex operations) |
| 01:18.31 | scott | in the couple months before christmas they have year-round subscriptions for like 80 |
| 01:18.50 | mheath | Leave more complex mathematics to college level, so it can be specific to the major the person is working towards. |
| 01:19.14 | mheath | For example, at my highschool they have a "Statistics" class |
| 01:19.27 | scott | I think upper math will be useless because it will be super easy to get step by step instructions from google or just get the answer |
| 01:19.27 | mheath | How many highschoolers are going to use statistics in their post-highschool life? |
| 01:19.42 | scott | you'll just search for area of a circle and then google will ask you what it needs to know |
| 01:20.13 | mheath | scott, interesting idea, it would be good for google to implement such a thing. |
| 01:20.14 | goozbach | which desire will win? |
| 01:20.17 | scott | I think stats is pretty important |
| 01:20.29 | goozbach | the desire to go get a slice of the best pizza in Utah? |
| 01:20.40 | goozbach | or the desire to go to sleep on my keyboard? |
| 01:20.45 | scott | everyone hears mean and median and correlation every day. how many times has a non-engineer ever found the volume of a cone? |
| 01:20.48 | sjansen | oh, yes, good idea, let's stop introducing challening material to students so that they can find out if they enjoy it |
| 01:20.57 | mheath | scott, no, no, I'm tallking about an advanced, year long class in stats |
| 01:21.01 | mheath | being offered in highschool |
| 01:21.28 | goozbach | answer: I think I'll just sit here and eat applejacks, and IRC |
| 01:21.47 | mheath | Basics like mean and median would be tought in the applied mathematics class I talked about. Because, as you said, its a basic you're likely to encounter in your day-to-day life. |
| 01:22.20 | sjansen | Good idea, then we can focus on more important basics like pleasing our new Chinese masters. |
| 01:22.25 | scott | mheath, yeah, I think oregon has moved that way. they have what's called integrated math all through high school and everything is about solving real world problems |
| 01:22.52 | sjansen | Lowering the bar for American students is _not_ a good way to ensure that we have high paying, challenging jobs in the US. |
| 01:23.16 | bucky | it starts in elementry school but Leavitt always left education last |
| 01:23.21 | bucky | http://www.pbs.org/pov/pov2005/hobart/ |
| 01:23.25 | mheath | I just don't see the benefit of putting tax dollars towards teaching students advanced calculus and advanced statistics when those students could potentially do any job in their life, which may or may not require those math skills. |
| 01:23.29 | scott | sjansen, teaching things in school that actually matter in high paying jobs will though |
| 01:23.44 | mheath | Leave higher level mathematics to college, when the mathematic curriculum can be customized to the individuals goals and major. |
| 01:23.51 | bucky | this teacher in LA isn't getting rich but at least he's doing his job |
| 01:24.04 | bucky | http://www.pbs.org/pov/local_broadcast_v4.html?station=KUED&zipcode=84101 |
| 01:24.21 | sjansen | ~kick goozbach |
| 01:24.23 | ibot | bugger off sod! |
| 01:24.36 | sjansen | ~strangle ibot |
| 01:24.37 | ibot | ACTION strangles ibot with a keyboard cord. |
| 01:24.42 | bucky | but really we don't want anyone to have the ability to think for themselves in Utah |
| 01:25.22 | mheath | sjansen, so you think its "lowering the bar" to want to wait until a student knows that he'll need a particular kind of advanced math before you waste money teaching it to him? |
| 01:26.20 | scott | bucky, knowing how to integrate in a million different ways isn't the most important element in thinking for oneself |
| 01:26.21 | sjansen | I'm curious how you expect this student to discover he is good at math if it's never taught to him, of for a student to discover she enjoys math if she never experiences it in the more advanced forms. |
| 01:26.47 | sjansen | Rational thinking and the ability to solve problems is. |
| 01:27.11 | sjansen | You need a framework for teaching those skills, might as well be prepping people for college now instead of turning college into a six year experience. |
| 01:27.12 | scott | there are lots of problems that people need to solve more frequently than integrals |
| 01:27.18 | mheath | sjansen, you missed me discussing the introduction of an applied mathematics course |
| 01:27.32 | bucky | scott just some reading skills and reading some basic literature would be a good start |
| 01:27.33 | bucky | http://www.pbs.org/pov/pov2005/hobart/special_reading.html |
| 01:27.41 | mheath | sjansen, which would teach such things as rational thinking and problem solving, and teach mathematic principals likely to be of use in their day-to-day lives. |
| 01:27.52 | scott | bucky: no one is going to read all your links |
| 01:27.58 | sjansen | mheath: like? |
| 01:28.02 | bucky | scott ok fine |
| 01:29.08 | sjansen | I see. You're not finding anything past elementary math, are you? |
| 01:29.12 | bucky | i moved here from a different school district where we had higher level classes if you call algebra I and II advanced in junior high |
| 01:29.55 | mheath | sjansen: .........Utah State already has approved curriculum for such a class. |
| 01:29.55 | bucky | this school district didn't recognize my credits because i didn't get them in high school and failed to tell me in time to graduate |
| 01:30.05 | mheath | They teach it on a small scale at my Highschool. |
| 01:30.09 | scott | I think finance/statistics/economics/philosophy are too rare in the U.S. in high school |
| 01:30.19 | bucky | why? because i wasn't mormon enough for them? |
| 01:30.46 | bucky | maybe these lazy ass teachers couldn't just get off their ass and do their job |
| 01:31.00 | scott | a basic class on law would be very useful also I think |
| 01:31.05 | sjansen | bucky: watch it |
| 01:31.45 | bucky | my principle was busy having an affair with the librarian on school grounds.. my buddy caught them in the act |
| 01:31.50 | mheath | scott, finance would be brilliant! |
| 01:32.05 | mheath | For example, my sister did tolerably in mathematics in highschool, going all the way to calculus |
| 01:32.19 | mheath | (granted most of her sucess was due to a large amount of help from my dad) |
| 01:32.20 | bucky | nothing has changed... every year they do the same thing to students |
| 01:32.41 | bucky | especially the indian student that don't join the God is White club |
| 01:32.41 | mheath | But, she finds balancing a checkbook to be bewildering |
| 01:32.54 | sjansen | finance and statistics would be a good choice |
| 01:33.02 | mheath | bucky, your joking, right? |
| 01:33.04 | sjansen | but for both, you're not going to get far without calculus |
| 01:33.14 | mheath | bucky, I can't belive this anger is serious. It's too silly. |
| 01:33.24 | bucky | the San Juan School District falsifies academic records |
| 01:33.37 | sjansen | as for economics... I though you wanted "applied", very few high school graduates are policy makers and the like |
| 01:34.12 | mheath | bucky, so talk to the county attorney's office about your complaints and the potential of launching an investigation? |
| 01:34.15 | bucky | they get grants for the indians and spend it on their little pet projects.. like th $500,000 they gave NSFF for excersise equip |
| 01:34.24 | scott | sjansen: I think calculus should be taught. but the theory and let them use a computer to solve all the different integrals |
| 01:35.01 | scott | sjansen: and even if people aren't making policy, they will be influencing it with their support so they should know basic economics--it will help them to understand how many important things in the world work |
| 01:35.07 | mheath | bucky, NO! Those FIENDS! You mean the schools there bought....EXERCISE EQUIPMENT? |
| 01:35.12 | bucky | mheath, it's not my job... i'm not a big moral agent of the Mormon church |
| 01:35.36 | bucky | there's not even 500 students in the whole school district |
| 01:35.46 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@208-186-97-26.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 01:36.08 | Newsome | bucky: you're claiming that the San Juan School District is a "moral agent" of the Mormon Church? |
| 01:36.11 | sjansen | you make a good point, although I'm pretty sure if you try to teach economics to most people you'll run into the old "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make 'em drink" |
| 01:36.12 | bucky | the county commissioner is up on 40 counts of bank fraud and money laundering over it |
| 01:36.26 | sjansen | they'll still rarely look beyond their own pocket book when voting |
| 01:36.31 | mheath | bucky, so basically your complaining endlessly yet not willing to potentially solve the problem by doing as little as making a phone call? |
| 01:36.50 | sjansen | bucky is a hopeless crackpot |
| 01:37.00 | sjansen | at least I know when I'm being stupid and usually do it for fun |
| 01:37.00 | bucky | i made the phone call.. there wasn't going to be any criminal charges until i did |
| 01:37.31 | mheath | sjansen, I agree.... |
| 01:37.32 | goozbach | I still think he's a fairly well written trolling AI |
| 01:37.34 | bucky | why didn't all these holier than thou mormons do something about it |
| 01:37.35 | mheath | This is surprising |
| 01:37.46 | mheath | I never remember bucky saying anything this annoyingly stupid before |
| 01:37.52 | goozbach | we just need to find that one phrase that puts him into repeat mode |
| 01:38.00 | sjansen | You just haven't been around at the right time. |
| 01:38.03 | goozbach | that'll prove it |
| 01:38.31 | mheath | bucky, so you're native american, I take it? |
| 01:38.49 | mheath | And you think people in Utah are racist against native americans |
| 01:38.53 | bucky | fuck you |
| 01:39.11 | sjansen | The entire state of Utah is out to oppress him. There is no such thing as Enterprise Class computing. If he hasn't ever needed a feature on his handful of computers, it's obviously useless. |
| 01:39.16 | maquis | ~language bucky |
| 01:39.17 | ibot | ACTION grabs bucky by the ear and washes bucky's mouth out with soap |
| 01:39.27 | mheath | bucky, what did I say? O.o |
| 01:39.31 | Newsome | buckybot: while (1) ; do echo "Blah blah blah...corruption...blah blah blah...Mormon church...blah blah blah..." ; done |
| 01:39.45 | mheath | I was asking a question, asking for clarification on your views |
| 01:40.13 | goozbach | it's a valid question |
| 01:40.20 | mheath | And FYI, I'm part cherokee |
| 01:40.28 | goozbach | unless that lanugage was directed at me... |
| 01:40.38 | mheath | So don't think I'm some corrupt "evil Mormon" whos out to be racist against you, abuse you, and take away your rights. |
| 01:40.46 | goozbach | then I take it as the insult It was |
| 01:41.04 | goozbach | ~pizza goozbach |
| 01:41.05 | ibot | ACTION gives goozbach a pizza |
| 01:41.09 | goozbach | woo |
| 01:41.14 | goozbach | oh wait... |
| 01:41.20 | goozbach | I can't eat that pizza |
| 01:41.24 | maquis | JoshH also can't spell sioux |
| 01:41.43 | JoshH | maybe if i had more in me, i would be able to. :P |
| 01:41.55 | goozbach | I'm 8/5 Anglo |
| 01:42.04 | scott | lol |
| 01:42.19 | maquis | really/ |
| 01:42.20 | sjansen | goozbach: so you did decide to get those extra two arms |
| 01:42.22 | maquis | when'll it get here? |
| 01:42.28 | goozbach | or is that 72/11 polish |
| 01:42.30 | maquis | Newsome: that's great... i love free pizza |
| 01:42.49 | mheath | I think that bucky just realized that he swore at me for asking a simple, non-agressive question, and he was thinking that I was some evil racist against native americans when I'm infact part native american |
| 01:42.53 | mheath | hence the sudden silence |
| 01:43.11 | maquis | either that or ibot's still washing out his mouth |
| 01:43.57 | bucky | mheath, you better get your DNA tested and see if you descended from Laman |
| 01:44.07 | JoshH | personally i don't find it too hard to believe that non-mormons get treated differently in rural utah. but, it happens here in slc too, to a certain extent, and you just have to either accept it as part of living in utah, or spend your life angry over it and die a miserable old man. |
| 01:44.39 | scott | bucky, if you don't have Laman's dna how are you going to tell that? |
| 01:45.04 | JoshH | laman was a real person? |
| 01:45.10 | goozbach | JoshH: I personally don't think it has anything to do with 'not being mormon' it's a generic minority thing. |
| 01:45.21 | bucky | the Jews have a specific genetic marker... if you descended from a jewish male... you have it |
| 01:45.34 | goozbach | I for one feel out of place on BYU campus |
| 01:45.49 | goozbach | of course the long hair and facial hair don't help |
| 01:45.51 | maquis | JoshH: i'm with goo on it being a generic minority thing |
| 01:45.52 | JoshH | goozbach: i agree |
| 01:46.14 | mheath | bucky, and that wasn't funny. Theoretically, if you believe the Book of Mormon's history, all native americans would have to be descendants of that lineage. |
| 01:46.27 | mheath | As the other one was wiped out by them. |
| 01:46.42 | sjansen | bucky: ah, yes, let's tell all the Mormons their morons because that's an effective approach |
| 01:46.48 | sjansen | bucky: obviously you know more than everyone else |
| 01:46.56 | JoshH | how long ago did the book of mormon events supposedly take place? |
| 01:47.04 | sjansen | bucky: it wouldn't be the least bit hypocritical of you to do so |
| 01:47.18 | bucky | the BOM claims that the Native American Indians descended from the jews |
| 01:47.27 | maquis | JoshH: 600bc-340ad if i remember correct |
| 01:47.39 | goozbach | I bet it isnt' any different for a Mormon going to school at Notre Dame. |
| 01:47.46 | bucky | they didn't http://www.lhvm.org/dna_view.htm |
| 01:47.47 | mheath | sjansen, if you have a copy, I think some of its has approximate dates |
| 01:47.53 | sjansen | JoshH, bucky: you think you're telling us something we haven't already heard? |
| 01:47.58 | mheath | bucky, so what/ |
| 01:47.58 | goozbach | or living in a predominatlly Catholic enviroment |
| 01:48.04 | mheath | bucky, so what? |
| 01:48.10 | JoshH | sjansen: im not telling you anything, im just asking something. |
| 01:48.27 | sjansen | missed the question mark |
| 01:48.36 | bucky | mheath, who had the genocide the Nephites or the Lamanites? |
| 01:48.36 | maquis | so... |
| 01:49.01 | sjansen | <JoshH> laman was a real person? |
| 01:49.09 | sjansen | if you believe the Book of Mormon, then yes he was |
| 01:49.19 | mheath | bucky, are you horribly offended that one religion teaches that you are the descendants of one of the most advanced early human civilizations in history? |
| 01:50.02 | sjansen | bucky: try growing up the only Mormon family in the entire town |
| 01:50.15 | mheath | <sarcasm>Yes, it sucks having a Jew for a Great*100 Grandfather</sarcasm> |
| 01:50.19 | sjansen | we moved in across the street from the Lutheran minister |
| 01:50.23 | JoshH | sjansen: ok, that was a half joking comment |
| 01:50.41 | sjansen | he came over to meet us and see if he could help |
| 01:50.47 | sjansen | the missionaries came out of the moving truck |
| 01:50.55 | scott | actually the book of mormon doesn't teach that all native americans are descendants of lamanites, so bucky if you can't imagine your ancestors killing nephites then maybe you weren't. |
| 01:50.59 | sjansen | within a minute he was gone |
| 01:51.11 | sjansen | if you weren't lutheran, you basically weren't a part of the town |
| 01:51.12 | scott | there's considerable evidence that there were other people living in america at the time of the lamanites/nephites |
| 01:51.13 | mheath | bucky, and it was the Nephites that were killed off my the Lamanites, according to the book of mormon. |
| 01:51.37 | bucky | i'm offended that the LDS church (which in reality should have stayed with Joseph's son like he wanted) has built a Microsoft sized empire all tax free publishing a book which i consider a work of fiction about some of the poorest people in this world many of whom still live in mud houses here |
| 01:51.42 | JoshH | scott: see, that confuses me, i thought it DID teach that, from what I've heard. |
| 01:51.48 | sjansen | while I was there, someone came through all of the local churches showing anti-mormon movies |
| 01:52.00 | scott | JoshH: time of tower of babel until 420 ad |
| 01:52.10 | maquis | bucky: umm... given that the book is given away for free, i don't fully understand your point... |
| 01:52.18 | maquis | scott: good point... i was excluding jared... |
| 01:52.22 | sjansen | bucky: don't tell me about being odd man out because of religion, don't talk to me about being oppressed |
| 01:52.28 | scott | JoshH: no, it teaches that a people came from jerusalem and settled in america |
| 01:52.37 | sjansen | I assure you, my high school experience was just as miserable as yours. |
| 01:52.46 | scott | JoshH: most scholars on the book of mormon believe that the nephites and lamanites associated with a number of other people in america |
| 01:52.59 | mheath | bucky, oh, NO!? You mean these evil people are publishing a book, giving it away for free, and collecting money to aid in relief campaigns and to build new religious institutions?! |
| 01:53.01 | sjansen | bucky: But I didn't decide that gave me the rigt to swear at everyone and attack Lutherans for being corrupt. |
| 01:53.04 | mheath | How horrible?! |
| 01:53.04 | sjansen | bucky: grow up |
| 01:53.08 | mheath | bucky, let me tell you something |
| 01:53.12 | bucky | all religions are built on publishing and the LDS church is no different.. go to seagull books and see... plus all the mileage they get out of the story |
| 01:53.13 | sjansen | bucky: learn to live in civlizied society |
| 01:53.17 | mheath | I'm ex-mormon. I have many problems with the church. |
| 01:53.26 | JoshH | scott: heh, thanks for telling me that, this whole time i seriously thought that mormons believed no indians lived here until a couple thousand years ago. |
| 01:53.27 | mheath | But bucky, even I consider your view to be silly. |
| 01:53.49 | mheath | You sound like an angry drunking man loudly complaining about whatever you find mildly irritating at the moment. |
| 01:53.54 | mheath | *drunk man |
| 01:54.31 | maquis | bucky: all of us have been in situations where we were the minority, and all of us have had negative experiences from that |
| 01:54.42 | maquis | you just have to grow up and learn to deal with it |
| 01:54.55 | scott | JoshH: http://www.fairlds.org/apol/brochures/BoMAlone.pdf <-- Were the Lehites alone in America? |
| 01:55.37 | scott | bucky: http://www.fairlds.org/apol/brochures/BoMDNA.pdf <-- Is an Historical Book of Mormon Incompatible with DNA Science |
| 01:55.58 | maquis | if you can't deal with people treating you different, they you'll have a miserable life |
| 01:56.02 | maquis | that's what i've learned |
| 01:56.06 | maquis | and you'll miss out on some funny moments |
| 01:56.12 | bucky | scott, "don't expect me to click on all your links" |
| 01:56.15 | mheath | I haven't read through comprehensive material on the subject, but most of what I've read has suggested that DNA science is rather inconclusive on the topic |
| 01:56.19 | sjansen | bucky: You don't have to accept the Book of Mormon. Happily, nobody is kicking down your door threatening to kill your family or put you in prison. But that doesn't give you the right to be insulting, offensive, and immature. |
| 01:56.36 | mheath | Kind of says that native americans may or may not be the distant descendants of israelites |
| 01:56.39 | JoshH | kicking it down? no. knocking on it? yes. :P |
| 01:56.55 | scott | bucky: if you want to continue believing lies then fine, don't click on it |
| 01:57.08 | goozbach | JoshH: but you don't have a choice to answer or not a knock down. |
| 01:57.27 | bucky | sjansen, when Utah signed the petition to become a state under threat of canon fire from Ft Douglas there were certain terms Utah agreed to |
| 01:57.34 | JoshH | ive always been very polite to missionaries |
| 01:57.40 | sjansen | bucky: and one of them was not putting up with you |
| 01:57.53 | bucky | scott, none of these indians descended from jews... end of story |
| 01:58.21 | maquis | bucky: each of us has our own views on the issue |
| 01:58.29 | maquis | if you look at certain research, it supports your views |
| 01:58.34 | maquis | other research supports my views |
| 01:58.46 | bucky | sjansen, polygamy was one which leavitt got rid of Jan Graham so she wouldn't prosecute it when she was AG in 1998 |
| 01:58.59 | maquis | i'm fine if we just all grow up and understand that different people believe different things |
| 01:59.04 | sjansen | For you. You've made your decision and we try to respect that. But enough is enough. You can't accept that there are forms of proof beyond what science provides. I can. Learn to respect that. |
| 01:59.09 | bucky | you haven't been living up to your end of the bargain |
| 01:59.15 | mheath | bucky, Please stop arguing. |
| 01:59.36 | maquis | bucky: what bargain? |
| 01:59.43 | mheath | bucky, You're being silly. Again, you sound like an angry drunk man arguing about whatever think is slightly irritating you slighty. |
| 01:59.54 | sjansen | bucky: My end of the bargain? Since when does my end of the bargain include sitting by and happily enjoying your swearing and insulting everyone else? |
| 02:00.16 | sjansen | Perhaps I should turn the other cheek. But people are imperfect. You seem to expect that everyone else you treat you perfectly. |
| 02:00.29 | goozbach | from where I sit the only one being derroitory, other than you, is me |
| 02:00.34 | sjansen | You seem to think that you're somehow special. The only one who's every had any problems. |
| 02:00.37 | sjansen | I'm sick of it. |
| 02:01.03 | bucky | sjansen, since when has looking the other way while your church sponsored pedophiles have been practicing polygamy when it was agreed to be put away when Utah became a state? |
| 02:01.39 | maquis | parse error, logic error, general error |
| 02:01.55 | goozbach | maquis: I thought of a name... |
| 02:02.01 | scott | so do internet providers in provo actually block IRC? |
| 02:02.07 | maquis | goozbach: huh? |
| 02:02.08 | scott | my current one appears to |
| 02:02.09 | goozbach | general kernel, error |
| 02:02.19 | JoshH | if mormons didn't legislate absurd alcohol laws, and if people like bucky didn't swear and insult, everyone in utah would get along just fine. too bad it can't be like that. :) |
| 02:02.27 | sjansen | bucky: Are you really so stupid that you can't tell the difference between a fundamenatist break-off and the Salt Lake based church that has reject them? |
| 02:02.27 | scott | I have to ssh in to another box and run irssi from there |
| 02:03.01 | bucky | if Leavitt and all the other Ultra mormons run this state with their penis we'd all be better off |
| 02:03.09 | maquis | scott: that's weird... |
| 02:03.17 | maquis | ~language bucky |
| 02:03.20 | ibot | ACTION grabs bucky by the ear and washes bucky's mouth out with soap |
| 02:03.24 | sjansen | That like say "All Muslims are terrorists" because a handful of freaks flew planes into buildings. |
| 02:03.53 | goozbach | Or all "Irish are drunks" |
| 02:03.57 | JoshH | the utah government doesn't do much to crack down on polygamy, and for that, i can understand how a lot of non-mormons could get the impression that the real mormon church's ban on polygamy is kind of a lip service/look the other way kind of thing. |
| 02:03.58 | scott | my parents learned quickly that tabasco sauce words much better than soap as a deterent |
| 02:04.19 | goozbach | scott: that DIDN't work with me |
| 02:04.29 | goozbach | I like straight tabasco |
| 02:05.13 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@71-35-233-248.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 02:05.27 | sjansen | I guess that also means the Mormon church condones drinking and driving because not enough effort is put into stopping DUI. |
| 02:05.31 | scott | goozbach: for you it would be a couple chiles de arbol |
| 02:05.51 | goozbach | umm, not any more |
| 02:06.05 | goozbach | only thing that really gets to me anymore is habenero |
| 02:06.20 | goozbach | and that's becomming less of an issue as time goes on |
| 02:06.26 | goozbach | tolerences++ |
| 02:06.38 | JoshH | sjansen: orrin hatch took a trip to hildale a few years ago, said the families there were good people, and said that he thought cracking down on it would be a bad thing. all while teenage girls are given to uncles and not allowed to have a normal life. |
| 02:06.46 | scott | btw, I heard that polygamist groups aren't legally married and that the law only legislates having more than one legal marriage..anyone know if that's the case? |
| 02:06.53 | JoshH | nobody has said anything like that about drunk driving. |
| 02:07.05 | scott | so like the guy marries one gal legally but the rest are just living with him |
| 02:07.22 | sjansen | Yes, well Mormons and non-Mormons alike know it's long past time to get rid of Hatch. |
| 02:07.46 | goozbach | is THAT something we can agree on???? |
| 02:07.53 | JoshH | its not like they get marriage licenses... they just say "here bob, you can have this 12 year old girl here and this other 14 year old. im assigning her wife to bud over there" |
| 02:07.53 | goozbach | ~kill Hatch |
| 02:07.54 | ibot | ACTION shoots a ionized positrino gun at Hatch |
| 02:08.01 | mheath | sjansen, I don't really agree |
| 02:08.04 | sjansen | Frankly, I don't see the point of spending tax dollars fighting polygamy. I do see the point of preventing child abuse. |
| 02:08.36 | JoshH | personally i don't think that having more than one spouse should be illegal. but the way they treat those kids is abhorrent. |
| 02:08.50 | scott | JoshH: that's my point (and what I heard). if the participants aren't underage, then if it's polygamy off the books is it legal? |
| 02:08.58 | JoshH | i dont think it is |
| 02:09.07 | goozbach | I doubt that anyone here will argue that point |
| 02:09.11 | sjansen | It should also be noted that Hatch is hardly a representative of the LDS church. |
| 02:09.28 | goozbach | sjansen: he ISN'T!!!!!!? |
| 02:09.29 | sjansen | He is an elected representitive of the people of Utah. |
| 02:10.00 | JoshH | sjansen: a lot of the mormon lawmakers in the state agreed with him though. the only good thing about mark shurtleff is that he doesn't tolerate the child rape that he goes on, but the government should still do a lot more. |
| 02:10.29 | xbmodder | ? |
| 02:11.51 | JoshH | sjansen: but why do so many of the people of utah vote for him? honestly. |
| 02:12.06 | JoshH | because they consider him a good mormon. |
| 02:12.09 | maquis | ~invoke op |
| 02:12.16 | scott | and a powerful senator |
| 02:12.21 | maquis | ~invoke hans |
| 02:12.30 | goozbach | I know I didn't |
| 02:12.36 | sjansen | JoshH: no, because they consider it in their best interest |
| 02:13.12 | sjansen | Why did people vote for Clinton? Because they considered him a good <insert religion>? Bush Jr.? Bush Sr.? |
| 02:13.17 | JoshH | we probably disagree about why they think it's in their best interest, but oh well. |
| 02:13.46 | sjansen | Hatch has been there a long time. He can bring home the pork. He's familiar. All the millions of good and bad reasons people vote for a certain person. |
| 02:14.08 | JoshH | i doubt he would keep getting reelected if he was an atheist |
| 02:14.09 | goozbach | but look JoshH, you can see that you dissagree without name-calling or language... |
| 02:14.25 | maquis | ~applaud JoshH |
| 02:15.13 | xbmodder | cool. |
| 02:15.14 | sjansen | In Utah, no he probably wouldn't be voted in. |
| 02:15.26 | goozbach | which is a sad truth... |
| 02:15.31 | maquis | swearing and name calling causes me to assume that the person speaking doesn't know of any other way to voice an opinion |
| 02:15.45 | goozbach | well maybe not sad... |
| 02:15.51 | xbmodder | have any presidents ever been athiest? |
| 02:16.02 | emcnabb | sjansen, I feel the same way as you |
| 02:16.09 | emcnabb | (about Hatch) |
| 02:16.17 | mheath | xbmodder, no, all United States presidents have been christian. |
| 02:16.20 | sjansen | xbmodder: That we know of? No. |
| 02:16.29 | xbmodder | mheath, -- wow... |
| 02:16.38 | JoshH | i honestly think the only reason that the most republican state in the country has some of the highest taxes and one of the most "big brother" governments is because most people here vote based on religion, not on the principles of their party or the quality of the candidate |
| 02:16.41 | goozbach | xbmodder: at least "publicly" christian |
| 02:16.44 | mheath | xbmodder, most have been protestant with a few catholic exceptions. |
| 02:16.44 | emcnabb | he's been a fairly descent senator, outside of technical matters |
| 02:16.45 | goozbach | or at least a theist |
| 02:16.52 | sjansen | It was a big deal when we had our first Catholic president. |
| 02:16.55 | emcnabb | in techincal matters he is horrible |
| 02:17.00 | JoshH | and that is why hatch is still in office |
| 02:17.11 | goozbach | JoshH: I think that's why... |
| 02:17.12 | emcnabb | I've gotten two letters from him in the last two months |
| 02:17.29 | sjansen | I contributed to his challenger. |
| 02:17.38 | mheath | Does anyone have any recomendations for a media player for Linux? I'm looking for something that has a firefox plugin (and I want it to PLAY in firefox, not just open up the media program) and support Windows Media Player formats. |
| 02:17.45 | goozbach | the people who understand what he's trying to do (about the tech issues) aren't vocal enough |
| 02:17.49 | emcnabb | mheath, mplayer |
| 02:17.58 | goozbach | ditto mplayer |
| 02:17.59 | emcnabb | it has a browser plug that works well for me |
| 02:18.03 | emcnabb | plugin |
| 02:18.22 | emcnabb | goozbach, I think it's just that most people don't care |
| 02:18.32 | emcnabb | tech issues mean nothing to them |
| 02:18.47 | emcnabb | they browse the web here and there, read their e-mail, and listen to music |
| 02:18.50 | mheath | meh, I've tried mplayer before and have had problems compiling it. I think I'll give it another try, though. |
| 02:19.21 | emcnabb | that's what computers are to 95% of people |
| 02:19.21 | xbmodder | mheath, mplayer |
| 02:19.21 | mheath | emcnabb, exactly! |
| 02:19.41 | emcnabb | to me they are huge issues; but to me certain issues, like labor rights aren't too important |
| 02:20.07 | emcnabb | (I've never had any problems with employers, etc) |
| 02:20.14 | sjansen | I don't know, labor issues are starting to touch educated technical workers too. |
| 02:20.33 | emcnabb | sjansen, then those issues will become more important too me |
| 02:20.37 | sjansen | Some of the *^%#* Microsoft is trying to pull is kinda scary. |
| 02:20.40 | goozbach | I think that the current "high majority of Mormon politions" thing is that mosty the majority of voting Utahns are trying to vote following their morals (which isn't nessicarily a bad thing) and the fallout is that non-LDS people kinda get the short end of the stick |
| 02:20.55 | emcnabb | as will tech issues to most people as computer get more familiar with computer and the Internet |
| 02:21.27 | emcnabb | people get more familiar with computer that is :-) |
| 02:21.33 | emcnabb | doing too many things at once |
| 02:22.03 | goozbach | someone want to bring me a pizza? |
| 02:22.07 | goozbach | a REAL pizza |
| 02:22.11 | emcnabb | goozbach, I went to Cafe Rio tonight |
| 02:22.16 | emcnabb | very yummy |
| 02:22.20 | sjansen | By the time you get here, it should be about done cooking. |
| 02:22.21 | goozbach | how does one 'over' a pizza? |
| 02:22.44 | scott | goozbach: just like flipping an egg |
| 02:22.47 | goozbach | raisin bran != pizza |
| 02:22.54 | sjansen | goozbach: It's a stronger version of offer. I guess you aren't familiar with that special conjugation. ;-) |
| 02:23.07 | goozbach | no matter how much I want it to be |
| 02:23.15 | goozbach | sjansen: you at the office? |
| 02:23.20 | sjansen | home |
| 02:24.38 | sjansen | Just give me enough warning to turn on the oven. |
| 02:25.06 | goozbach | meh |
| 02:25.15 | sjansen | DiGiorno rising crust spinach, mushroom & garlic |
| 02:25.34 | goozbach | I'd order delivery, but there's not a place around here that can correctly find my house in 30min or less |
| 02:25.48 | goozbach | heck in 120min or less... |
| 02:26.14 | sjansen | heh |
| 02:26.39 | goozbach | last time I overed delivery, the pizza was free :) cause it was an hour late |
| 02:26.48 | goozbach | but it was cold :( |
| 02:26.58 | Supaplex | sucky ;/ |
| 02:27.04 | sjansen | What, "stop at the white house, walk behind it, climb the fence, hop scotch across the stream, run past the guard dog, knock on the basement door" isn't clear enough for them? |
| 02:27.14 | Supaplex | hahaaa |
| 02:27.57 | goozbach | sjansen: you forgot shimmy down the drainpipe. |
| 02:27.59 | Supaplex | and avoid the shiney oily oak plants ;) |
| 02:28.27 | sjansen | goozbach: oops |
| 02:30.19 | goozbach | anyone in the Greater SLC area want to go to the PIE? |
| 02:30.36 | sjansen | Where's that? |
| 02:30.50 | goozbach | 900E and S temple |
| 02:31.21 | goozbach | sjansen: meet you there? I'm buying... |
| 02:31.29 | emcnabb | umm... |
| 02:31.34 | emcnabb | it's tempting |
| 02:31.53 | sjansen | My intestinal track has been threatening to secede all evening. |
| 02:32.16 | sjansen | emcnabb: You should go. |
| 02:32.20 | goozbach | sjansen: if it has this pizza, it could be the barging chit you've been looking |
| 02:32.24 | goozbach | er looking for |
| 02:32.34 | goozbach | maybe chit wasnt |
| 02:32.39 | goozbach | 'the right word |
| 02:34.18 | emcnabb | it looks like the bug in Evince that Dax and I reported last week is fixed |
| 02:34.28 | maquis | ~evince |
| 02:34.29 | ibot | somebody said evince was a document viewer for multiple document formats like pdf, postscript, and many others. The goal of evince is to replace the multiple document viewers that exist on the GNOME Desktop, like ggv, gpdf, and xpdf with a single simple application. See http://www.gnome.org/projects/evince/. |
| 02:35.05 | maquis | emcnabb: what was the bug? |
| 02:35.25 | emcnabb | it would crash when selecting certain text and images |
| 02:35.27 | sjansen | ~luck evince |
| 02:36.55 | sjansen | http://www.theregister.com/2005/09/09/niagara_many_cores/ <-- /me wants a niagra server to play with |
| 02:37.20 | sjansen | "Over the past few weeks, Sun has changed the Niagara system names from the Sun Fire T100 and T200 to the Sun Fire T1000 and Sun Fire T2000. Why the extra 0? Because it looks good, we're told." |
| 02:37.28 | Newsome | ~quantum optical memory |
| 02:38.12 | Newsome | maquis: you can have a copy of mine. Just type: cat /dev/null > postfix.conf |
| 02:38.13 | sjansen | heh |
| 02:38.37 | *** part/#utah bucky (n=bucky@pdpc/supporter/active/bucky) |
| 02:38.57 | maquis | i have fetchmail set up to bring down mail from gmail |
| 02:39.16 | maquis | i just need postfix to send that mail to procmail for filtering |
| 02:40.40 | goozbach | i'm not using procmail |
| 02:42.43 | sjansen | I am. |
| 02:43.08 | sjansen | Although I have a full blown server. That's probably more than you want. |
| 02:43.39 | maquis | sjansen: yeah... probably |
| 02:43.56 | maquis | if i had a static ip... i might try doing that |
| 02:44.16 | maquis | but i've got my computers going through a router, through a cable modem |
| 02:53.31 | mheath | my IP is supposedly dynamic |
| 02:53.38 | mheath | but in over a year of having cable, it hasn't changed once. |
| 02:56.11 | sjansen | maquis: here's what I've got |
| 02:57.05 | sjansen | mailbox_command_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/command_map <-- in main.cf |
| 02:57.13 | *** join/#utah cc2n (n=cpclark@dsl093-224-226.slc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 02:57.35 | sjansen | sjansen /usr/bin/procmail <-- in /etc/postfix/command_map |
| 02:57.42 | maquis | sjansen: cool |
| 02:57.48 | sjansen | don't forget to hash the file |
| 02:57.56 | maquis | sjansen: why do you need to hash it? |
| 02:58.31 | mheath | brilliant..... |
| 02:58.48 | mheath | I had completely forgotten about BSD process accounting |
| 02:59.03 | mheath | that would be dead useful for something I'm working on |
| 02:59.34 | sjansen | postmap |
| 03:00.07 | goozbach | I want to write a cool distributed SCM tool... |
| 03:00.13 | sjansen | mheath: I'm curious what. |
| 03:00.15 | goozbach | so I can be an expert on everything |
| 03:00.52 | sjansen | goozbach: have you actually read all the messages? |
| 03:00.53 | goozbach | and write Long drawn out articles on why I'm an expert on everything |
| 03:00.57 | sjansen | I read a few and just gave up |
| 03:01.11 | goozbach | sjansen: I'm in the middle of the big "the way forward article" |
| 03:01.38 | mheath | sjansen, an advanced init system. I'm incorporating some stuff in that gives you extremely powerful control over making sure your processes stay running, constantly. |
| 03:01.41 | sjansen | don't forget the accusations of conspiracy |
| 03:02.03 | mheath | BSD process accounting would allow very easy and efficient monitoring of what processes have ended |
| 03:02.40 | mheath | It's really hard to explain how I'd utilize it, I'd have to launch in to a very long explanation on how my program works |
| 03:02.41 | goozbach | there is a fine line between genius and lunacy |
| 03:02.55 | mheath | I'm just glad I remembered about it |
| 03:03.00 | sjansen | a good init system is something we could all really use |
| 03:03.16 | sjansen | of course, the hard part will be convincing people to switch... |
| 03:03.41 | mheath | Its designed from the grounds up as the next generation of init |
| 03:04.01 | mheath | Theres lots of variants of init out there, but they're all basically SysVInit with a couple extra features tacked on |
| 03:04.32 | goozbach | "Well funded and well socially connected GNU/Linux |
| 03:04.32 | goozbach | vendors can influence these outlets in numerous ways with the aim of |
| 03:04.32 | goozbach | shaping everything from selection of editors to placement of articles |
| 03:04.36 | goozbach | and titles." |
| 03:05.07 | goozbach | talking about slashdot orileypress etc... |
| 03:06.01 | goozbach | Cox works for RedHat... oh no!!! |
| 03:06.32 | sjansen | Linux is doomed! Baz users are evil! Meteors will destory us all! |
| 03:07.19 | mheath | I've been putting lots of thought lately into a very user-friendly yet powerful linux distribution I plan to eventually create and distributed commercially (freely downloadable, of course) |
| 03:07.24 | sjansen | It's a shame. Tom Lord had some cool things going on. If only he'd kept his sanity. |
| 03:07.50 | mheath | Basically designed as a drop in replacement for Microsoft Windows, that even your average Windows user would feel comfortable using |
| 03:08.06 | sjansen | goozbach: which flavor are you referring to? |
| 03:08.20 | mheath | And to work towards that goal, I've been fine tuning lower level ideas, like hardware detection, this init system I was talking about, and a variety of other powerful features |
| 03:09.06 | goozbach | "Volunteer Lock-in Strategy: Trash and Take Over Threatening Projects |
| 03:09.06 | goozbach | At certain times, projects that arise outside of the business activities |
| 03:09.06 | goozbach | of GNU/Linux vendors may achieve a momentum and trajectory of their own |
| 03:09.06 | goozbach | which undermines the interests of those vendors (GCC under Kenner vs. |
| 03:09.06 | goozbach | Cygnus; GNU Arch vs. Canonical). With only moderate spending on |
| 03:09.09 | goozbach | falsely-friendly "forks", such projects can be reliably taken over and |
| 03:09.11 | goozbach | their maintainers discredited and pushed to the sidelines." |
| 03:09.21 | goozbach | that paragraph sums up the bitterness right there |
| 03:09.35 | goozbach | "mommy they stole my project!!!" |
| 03:09.52 | goozbach | ok enough spam from me |
| 03:11.18 | mheath | I'm working on a system restoration method, too.... |
| 03:11.34 | mheath | You can make a backup CD, Floppy Disk, or USB thumb drive |
| 03:11.41 | mheath | Then, say you mess up your system horribly |
| 03:12.12 | *** join/#utah Jayce^ (n=Jayce_@65.218.37.138) |
| 03:12.12 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 03:12.15 | mheath | Running under my distribution, it will reinstall all the software you had before, use your same configuration files, etc. |
| 03:12.44 | mheath | Just pop in the distro install CD, tell it you want to do a restore, pop in the restore CD/FD/USB drive, and it does the rest |
| 03:14.01 | Jayce^ | hey goozbach, you good for Saturday? |
| 03:14.23 | mheath | I've just had ideas constantly flowing out of my head for distro |
| 03:14.37 | mheath | I have an entire binder full of just my ideas, charts, etc |
| 03:15.07 | goozbach | Jayce^: this coming saturday??? |
| 03:15.11 | goozbach | oh yeah!!! |
| 03:15.17 | Jayce^ | yeah, up here |
| 03:15.21 | Jayce^ | the 17th |
| 03:15.27 | goozbach | maybe I'll have my Gullie suit done by then... |
| 03:15.32 | Jayce^ | ghillie |
| 03:15.39 | goozbach | whatever |
| 03:15.44 | goozbach | the camo |
| 03:15.47 | mheath | Guille suit? |
| 03:15.47 | Jayce^ | :) |
| 03:17.21 | maquis | sjansen: [osiris init.d] postmap /etc/postfix/command_map |
| 03:17.21 | maquis | postmap: warning: /etc/postfix/command_map, line 3: expected format: key whitespace value |
| 03:17.46 | mheath | what is line 3/ |
| 03:17.47 | mheath | ? |
| 03:17.48 | sjansen | maquis: what's in your command_map? |
| 03:18.30 | maquis | /usr/bin/procmail with an empty line at each end (in an attempt to get the error to go away) |
| 03:18.58 | hans | sjansen: mind if I practice on you? |
| 03:19.32 | mheath | It wants like "key value", sounds like |
| 03:19.38 | goozbach | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghillie_suit |
| 03:19.38 | mheath | that and only that |
| 03:19.46 | *** mode/#utah [+b *!*n=sjansen@*.area7.spcsdns.net] by hans |
| 03:19.46 | *** kick/#utah [sjansen!i=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net] by hans (hans) |
| 03:19.53 | *** mode/#utah [-b *!*n=sjansen@*.area7.spcsdns.net] by hans |
| 03:20.18 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@h4607f305.area7.spcsdns.net) |
| 03:20.45 | sjansen | man, I step away from #utah for a second and look what happens to me |
| 03:20.54 | hans | thanks for the practice. :) |
| 03:21.17 | sjansen | maquis: you should have <user> <program> |
| 03:21.21 | hans | sorry I missed the excitement. Jayce^ maybe we need to erm, "elect" another night-time op |
| 03:21.26 | maquis | sjansen: oh... |
| 03:21.32 | Jayce^ | yeah, I know, gotta talk to Tim about it |
| 03:21.42 | Jayce^ | "the board of trustees" |
| 03:21.55 | hans | man I'm bored of trustees |
| 03:23.27 | sjansen | Jayce^: I know how your "elections" work and count me out. |
| 03:23.50 | Jayce^ | :) |
| 03:25.03 | goozbach | sjansen: you didn't have to eat the brownies... |
| 03:25.11 | goozbach | we told you they were special |
| 03:26.09 | sjansen | been thinking about seeing that one |
| 03:26.31 | hans | yeah, looks interesting |
| 03:26.36 | Jayce^ | was quite funny |
| 03:26.41 | hans | sjansen: similar situations. just he's got more kids |
| 03:28.44 | sjansen | slackers |
| 03:29.01 | hans | ~flame sjansen |
| 03:29.04 | ibot | sjansen sux0rz d00d!!!!!!!!!!!!!!@@!!!!!!!11 |
| 03:30.11 | Newsome | Maybe we could deputize ibot for extreme circumstances... |
| 03:30.23 | hans | ibot is an op already |
| 03:30.35 | hans | in fact, I daresay he's running this show |
| 03:30.39 | hans | ~kick sjansen |
| 03:30.40 | ibot | bugger off sod! |
| 03:30.46 | hans | but he doesn't follow orders very well |
| 03:30.48 | Newsome | yeah, but he doesn't respond if you try telling him to kick bucky |
| 03:32.11 | sjansen | the problem with a deputized bot it isn't doesn't understand the words "laissez faire" |
| 03:34.26 | *** mode/#utah [+o goozbach] by ChanServ |
| 03:34.49 | *** mode/#utah [-o goozbach] by goozbach |
| 03:34.53 | goozbach | shhh.... |
| 03:34.58 | goozbach | don't tell anyone... |
| 03:35.05 | Jayce^ | *nooobody expects the silent op's* |
| 03:35.26 | Jayce^ | his chief weapon is fear... fear and loathing.... |
| 03:35.44 | hans | and #idlerpg |
| 03:35.59 | hans | put those helmets and stuff to work |
| 03:36.20 | Jayce^ | and with that folks, I've got a kid to get back to bed... night all |
| 03:36.24 | mheath | I think the silence ended when ChanServ msged me telling me he'd been promoted =P |
| 03:36.27 | mheath | well, notice'd |
| 03:37.21 | *** mode/#utah [+o maquis] by hans |
| 03:37.30 | maquis | w00t! |
| 03:37.46 | *** mode/#utah [-o ibot] by hans |
| 03:37.58 | hans | heh. thought he'd take it right back |
| 03:38.12 | maquis | guess not |
| 03:38.18 | goozbach | heh Newsome I don't think ibot can protect you now... |
| 03:38.57 | maquis | Newsome: you have more power over me than i have over you.... |
| 03:39.16 | sjansen | "And in closing, I would like to say that if you make me your OP I will rule #utah with an iron fist and only voice those regularily send me tributes of pizza and caffeine." |
| 03:42.00 | goozbach | let it be noted that sjansen turned down pizza eariler from me |
| 03:42.03 | Newsome | I doubt I'd make a good OP here, because I'd probably ban xbmodder and bucky and just stick to lurk mode most of the time. |
| 03:43.06 | maquis | but will remove it if they stop |
| 03:43.18 | JoshH | whoa, people are still swearing here? |
| 03:43.38 | maquis | no... |
| 03:43.41 | maquis | just making a comment |
| 03:43.50 | JoshH | ah |
| 03:44.38 | Newsome | info #utah |
| 03:44.44 | Newsome | doh |
| 03:44.52 | JoshH | Hostname: jrh - OS: Linux 2.6.11-1-k7/i686 - CPU: AMD Athlon(tm) XP 1800+ (1527.128 MHz) - Processes: 88 - Uptime: 8d 10h 21m - Load Average: 0.25 - Memory Usage: 182.70MB/472.88MB (38.64%) - Disk Usage: 1.69GB/7.34GB (23.01%) - Lan Traffic (eth0): 813.97MB In/69.88MB Out |
| 03:44.58 | JoshH | oops |
| 03:45.05 | maquis | hehe |
| 03:45.17 | JoshH | i forgot i had that |
| 03:48.30 | Newsome | I was changing the IP on a machine yesterday that I'd pretty much forgotten about, and realized it's been up for 390 days! |
| 03:49.07 | maquis | Newsome: did you hear about the machine someplace that got lost for a couple years |
| 03:49.18 | Newsome | yep |
| 03:49.20 | maquis | it could be pinged and everything, but nobody knew where it was physically |
| 03:50.19 | JoshH | where was this? |
| 03:50.45 | maquis | JoshH: i don't remember... |
| 03:50.51 | maquis | it was a while ago, though |
| 03:51.18 | sjansen | JoshH: It's an uncomfirmed legend about an old Netware server. |
| 03:51.33 | goozbach | urban legend |
| 03:51.37 | JoshH | netware, no wonder they forgot about it |
| 03:52.07 | sjansen | I talked to someone in Novell responsible for researching the event. He thinks it's true, but wasn't able to get definitive proff in time for a special publication. |
| 03:52.59 | maquis | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:53.07 | maquis | why in the world isn't it a mailbox? |
| 03:53.35 | Newsome | is it a maildir instead? |
| 03:54.24 | sjansen | what program is producing the error? |
| 03:54.39 | maquis | mutt |
| 03:56.07 | maquis | trying to adapt emcnabb's muttrc, and not having much luck |
| 03:56.08 | maquis | :( |
| 03:58.11 | maquis | http://wiki.mutt.org/?MuttFaq/Folder <-- supposed to be answering my question, but i don't understand it |
| 03:58.17 | sjansen | girls shouldn't use computers |
| 03:58.26 | maquis | ~lart sjansen |
| 03:59.29 | sjansen | Is it mbox of maildir? Do you have to use a different format for maildir? |
| 04:00.00 | maquis | sjansen: how do i know? all i know is that i want mail to go to ~/mail/IN/ |
| 04:00.53 | sjansen | mbox is one giant file, maildir is a directory of specially formatted files |
| 04:01.11 | sjansen | usually, if you're using maildir, you have to use a modified path to signify that |
| 04:01.34 | maquis | sjansen: i think it's mbox, but i'm not quite certain? |
| 04:01.41 | maquis | well |
| 04:01.46 | maquis | honestly... i was just using dirs |
| 04:01.50 | maquis | which is likely the problem |
| 04:01.52 | sjansen | If it's mbox, there shouldn't be a trailing / |
| 04:02.30 | maquis | err... |
| 04:02.50 | sjansen | If you don't even know if you're using mbox of maildir, you're going to have a hard time configuring postfix/procmail/mutt. |
| 04:03.29 | maquis | i was following the instructions at http://souptonuts.sourceforge.net/postfix_tutorial.html |
| 04:03.51 | maquis | procmail has this line: |
| 04:03.58 | JoshH | maquis: in your postfix config, did you add a trailing slash to the mail delivery location? |
| 04:04.19 | maquis | DEFAULT=$MAILDIR/mbox |
| 04:04.28 | maquis | does that mean i'm set up to use mbox |
| 04:04.32 | JoshH | maquis: if its a maildir, it will be a dir, if its an mbox file, it will just be a spool |
| 04:04.45 | sjansen | spool == file |
| 04:04.53 | JoshH | right |
| 04:04.58 | Newsome | maquis: that means you're set up to use an mbox named mbox |
| 04:05.27 | maquis | sjansen: JoshH: is it a specific file? or will any old file work? |
| 04:05.37 | maquis | Newsome: mmk... so, maybe i want to change the name of it |
| 04:06.01 | sjansen | normally, it's a file named MBOX or INBOX or the like |
| 04:06.15 | sjansen | maquis: you don't want to blindly change the name |
| 04:06.28 | maquis | sjansen: ummm... |
| 04:06.29 | sjansen | you want to first decide what format you're going to store messages in |
| 04:06.29 | maquis | ok |
| 04:06.38 | sjansen | I prefer maildir myself. |
| 04:07.25 | maquis | so... maildir is where you have .mail with a bunch of folders inside it? |
| 04:07.39 | maquis | does it make a difference when i go to try to sort mail into different folders in mutt? |
| 04:07.54 | sjansen | *shrug* I'm not a mutt user. |
| 04:08.06 | sjansen | It does make a difference for procmail. |
| 04:08.14 | maquis | ok... in what way? |
| 04:09.23 | sjansen | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maildir |
| 04:10.15 | sjansen | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mbox |
| 04:10.54 | sjansen | Not that maildir with nested folders is actually an extended format so you'll need to make sure the various pieced play well together. |
| 04:11.32 | maquis | sjansen: i see those, but i don't see how they work with different mail folders with procmail |
| 04:11.51 | sjansen | now you need to look at the procmail docs and the mutt docs |
| 04:12.16 | maquis | mmk |
| 04:13.01 | sjansen | I hope you didn't actually go through all the compiling steps in the doc. Your distributions version of postfix should have worked fine. |
| 04:13.14 | maquis | i didn't compile it |
| 04:13.25 | maquis | i skipped the installing steps and went down to the setup |
| 04:13.30 | sjansen | Looks like this guy also assumed you're using Red Hat/Fedora. |
| 04:18.46 | maquis | goozbach: what'd you do? |
| 04:18.50 | goozbach | I marked GAU for offline viewing |
| 04:18.50 | sjansen | goozbach: your first? |
| 04:19.06 | goozbach | all 7582 messages of it |
| 04:19.19 | sjansen | 6 7 8 |
| 04:19.35 | goozbach | well, now is a good time to go get some food |
| 04:19.39 | goozbach | then start my laundry |
| 04:19.43 | goozbach | then read a bood |
| 04:19.51 | maquis | GAI? |
| 04:19.56 | sjansen | no! no! no! you ruined the pattern, it was maquis's turn |
| 04:19.58 | goozbach | would someone over me a bood |
| 04:19.59 | maquis | ~gau |
| 04:20.16 | goozbach | Gnu Arch Users |
| 04:20.24 | *** join/#utah levi (n=levi@levi.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 04:20.27 | goozbach | the mailing list |
| 04:20.30 | maquis | ah |
| 04:20.50 | levi | Yo. |
| 04:20.52 | goozbach | ohh that's a good bood |
| 04:21.00 | sjansen | levi: 'sup |
| 04:21.36 | goozbach | sjansen: eventually with your and my typos being made into language we could take over the wolrld |
| 04:22.02 | mrpull | anybody use itunes? |
| 04:22.02 | goozbach | I'm just overing a partnership |
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| 04:23.10 | goozbach | whoo I'm on message 4005 |
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| 04:48.36 | goozbach | I've got frozen burritos |
| 04:50.09 | levi | Bleh, frozen burritos. |
| 04:51.28 | goozbach | I think this is the first time I've even microwaved anything in my house in over two months |
| 04:51.47 | emcnabb | goozbach, you only bake? :-) |
| 04:52.12 | levi | He's never home. |
| 04:53.27 | goozbach | aparently levi undestands sarcasim very well |
| 04:53.41 | emcnabb | levi, I know |
| 04:53.48 | emcnabb | I work with goozbach |
| 04:53.53 | goozbach | emcnabb: if it's baked... I'm all over it |
| 04:54.01 | goozbach | ...er DUDE!!! |
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| 04:56.00 | mheath | http://pastebin.com/360341 |
| 04:56.03 | mheath | Can anyone explain that? |
| 04:56.18 | mheath | Thats on a vanilla desktop system, IDE drives, no raid, no crypto funkiness, etc. |
| 04:57.28 | emcnabb | a hurd kernel hacker using LILO?!?! |
| 04:57.59 | mheath | emcnabb, the only real benefit I see from GRUB is that it supports the multiboot spec |
| 04:58.12 | mheath | which is required for Hurd, and therefore I use it on my Hurd machine |
| 04:58.26 | mheath | I don't get this though |
| 04:58.44 | mheath | its like all my changes - copying the kernel, to the MBR, to lilo.conf - are reverted |
| 06:02.27 | goozbach | I don't think I've put this much time into an email for close to half a year |
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| 06:24.41 | mrpull | mheath: are you running lilo after you update your config? |
| 06:27.53 | xbmodder | <Newsome> I doubt I'd make a good OP here, because I'd probably ban xbmodder and bucky and just stick to lurk mode most of the time. < I agree :) |
| 06:35.05 | maquis | hehe |
| 06:36.04 | levi | Hey, people are still awake here. |
| 06:36.12 | maquis | levi: yup |
| 06:36.18 | maquis | not by much, though |
| 06:36.32 | levi | Man, why is sudoku so popular all of the sudden? |
| 06:36.39 | maquis | levi: cuz it's cool! |
| 06:37.06 | levi | Sure, but it's not exactly a new thing. |
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| 08:47.23 | bonez39 | anyone here at this hour? |
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| 15:46.35 | goozbach | that was too close |
| 15:46.47 | goozbach | just about missed my flight |
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| 17:04.46 | findlay | hello |
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| 17:41.14 | mheath | Wow |
| 17:41.17 | mheath | 330 PPM printer |
| 17:41.29 | linuxalien | Word |
| 17:41.39 | findlay | Writer |
| 17:41.54 | linuxalien | hehe Writer...isn't that a Mac app? |
| 17:42.03 | findlay | OO.o |
| 17:42.15 | linuxalien | Ok, so I know nothing |
| 17:42.17 | linuxalien | :) |
| 17:49.25 | mheath | If anyone has any interest, I've got the following for sale: Two Dell Optiplex GX1 Pentium1 desktops for $5 each, an AMD Athlon computer (about 500mhz, if I remember correctly) for $10, and a nice laser printer for $20 |
| 17:49.55 | linuxalien | Wow, laser printer? What brand? I am just curious. After buying this iBook, I shouldn't even spend 5 bucks now. |
| 17:50.17 | mheath | linuxalien, HP |
| 17:50.26 | linuxalien | Cool - it works? |
| 17:50.30 | mheath | Yeah |
| 17:50.31 | linuxalien | Maybe my brother can use it |
| 17:50.50 | mheath | Its a little older (~ 8 years) but decent speed and very nice |
| 17:50.58 | linuxalien | How can my brother get hold of you? |
| 17:51.01 | mheath | Parallel Port, Apple LocalTalk |
| 17:51.11 | findlay | a good printer will last longer than 8 years |
| 17:51.13 | mheath | linuxalien, Mike.Thomas.Heath@gmail.com |
| 17:51.20 | linuxalien | Oh cool... Linux does appletalk |
| 17:51.32 | mheath | linuxalien, well, with an x86 machine you'd use parallel |
| 17:51.39 | mheath | but Linux on Mac you can use appletalk |
| 17:51.59 | mheath | 600DPI, 3MB memory (thats upgradabe), Adobe Postscript compatible... |
| 17:52.16 | mheath | Its got a big tray feed, and a second pop out feeder that you can use for odd-sized stuff like envelopes |
| 17:52.35 | mheath | "officially" supported on Macs and in Windows, but it works flawlessly with Linux (I used CUPS) |
| 17:52.55 | linuxalien | Coolness! |
| 17:53.25 | mheath | The toner is about half full, I believe |
| 17:53.42 | linuxalien | Right on. About how many pages does it print with a full toner? |
| 17:55.08 | mheath | The documentation for it says 4,000 pages |
| 17:55.44 | mheath | http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Document.jsp?locale=en_US&taskId=120&prodSeriesId=25477&prodTypeId=18972&objectID=bpl06599 |
| 17:55.47 | mheath | I have the 6MP |
| 17:56.15 | linuxalien | Right on |
| 17:56.21 | linuxalien | My brother could use something like that |
| 17:56.23 | linuxalien | For school |
| 17:56.36 | linuxalien | I emailed him. I'm going to go visit him today I think |
| 17:56.39 | linuxalien | So I'll talk to him |
| 17:56.48 | mheath | Oh, it has infrared too (that website doesn't mention that....) |
| 17:57.04 | mheath | linuxalien, well, have him e-mail me. It's his for $20 |
| 17:57.26 | linuxalien | Hey cool!! Tell you what, I'll go ahead and buy it for 20 and just deliver it to him |
| 17:57.34 | linuxalien | I will take it to him I mean |
| 17:57.45 | linuxalien | Man, my english suffers when I'm not awake ;) |
| 17:58.42 | mheath | Haha. When/where would you like to pick it up? |
| 17:59.13 | linuxalien | Hmmm I could do that today I think. Where is a good central spot to meet? Do you live in Ogden? |
| 17:59.21 | linuxalien | I'm in north ogden, close to pleasantview |
| 17:59.30 | mheath | Todays actually not good, I'm leaving for work very shortly |
| 18:00.00 | linuxalien | Oh that's ok. I work 1-10pm on weekdays now but I can paypal it to ya and arrange a pickup |
| 18:02.14 | linuxalien | I gotta go check on my brother. I haven't heard from him in two days. You can email me at linuxalien@gmail.com with your paypal info. |
| 18:04.11 | *** join/#utah mheath (n=mheath@c-67-161-213-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 18:06.20 | mheath | ~seen linuxalien |
| 18:06.27 | ibot | linuxalien <n=zaphod@c-24-2-80-89.hsd1.ut.comcast.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #utah, 4m 13s ago, saying: 'I gotta go check on my brother. I haven't heard from him in two days. You can email me at linuxalien@gmail.com with your paypal info.'. |
| 18:07.48 | findlay | ~seen me |
| 18:07.50 | ibot | me <n=michael@208-38-72-153.rev.nsatel.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #debian, 23d 19h 13m 10s ago, saying: 'Does anyone know how to get a Intel 82845G Graphics controller to work in debian?'. |
| 18:21.06 | findlay | ~seen ibot |
| 18:21.10 | ibot | ibot is currently on #openzaurus (3d 3h 56m 48s) #gpe (3d 3h 56m 48s) #silvercat (3d 3h 56m 48s) #opie (3d 3h 56m 48s) #bzflag (3d 3h 56m 48s) #familiar (3d 3h 56m 48s) #brlcad (3d 3h 56m 48s) #uclibc (3d 3h 56m 48s) #handhelds.org (3d 3h 56m 48s) #utah (3d 3h 56m 48s) #oe (3d 3h ... |
| 19:02.14 | maquis | ~seeb findlay |
| 19:02.21 | maquis | ~seen findlay |
| 19:02.26 | ibot | findlay is currently on #utah (1h 58m 39s). Has said a total of 6 messages. Is idling for 41m 20s |
| 19:04.42 | findlay | ~seen maquis |
| 19:04.44 | ibot | maquis is currently on #utah. Has said a total of 421 messages. Is idling for 2m 23s |
| 19:05.41 | findlay | 421 huh? maquis must be more garrulous than findlay |
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| 19:20.44 | maquis | :) |
| 19:22.04 | mheath | gah, I hate rifle drilling |
| 19:22.27 | mheath | PORT...ARMS! PRESENT...ARMS! PORT...ARMS! ORDER...ARMS! |
| 19:27.11 | harleypig | Anyone familiar with djdbns present? |
| 19:27.22 | harleypig | err ... yeah ... djbdns |
| 19:28.06 | harleypig | And apache? |
| 19:34.40 | maquis | harleypig: nope... what's djbdns? |
| 19:34.51 | harleypig | It's a dns server. |
| 19:35.16 | maquis | cool... |
| 19:35.23 | harleypig | :] |
| 19:35.27 | maquis | you having trouble with it? |
| 19:36.17 | harleypig | Yeah ... it's taking more than 10 seconds to respond to a ping request for a domain, but not for another. |
| 19:37.40 | hans | ~spell coersion |
| 19:38.01 | harleypig | ~spell corrosive |
| 19:38.42 | harleypig | ~spell perl |
| 19:38.54 | harleypig | ! perv? |
| 19:40.01 | maquis | harleypig: so... it's not returning the IP address of some domains in < 10 seconds? |
| 19:40.23 | maquis | does it maybe not have those addresses handy and has to go look them up someplace else? |
| 19:40.32 | harleypig | Yeah. It returns the ip on average at about 15 seconds. |
| 19:40.44 | harleypig | No, it's my domain name and in the config file. |
| 19:41.03 | harleypig | Right after the main domain name, which responds immediately. |
| 19:41.13 | maquis | hmmm |
| 19:41.42 | maquis | 15 seconds is a long time |
| 19:42.22 | hans | hmm, wonder why xmms won't play this playlist, but I can wget the files just fine |
| 19:42.28 | hans | it just freezes up |
| 19:44.20 | hans | magnatune.com "we are not evil" |
| 19:44.26 | hans | some good stuff there |
| 19:45.07 | harleypig | maquis: Yeah, it's killing any browser connection |
| 19:45.22 | maquis | harleypig: yeah |
| 19:45.27 | maquis | hmm |
| 19:45.34 | maquis | is it checking the items in the config file first? |
| 19:45.53 | maquis | or is it going off and searching the web, then when it's not found looking up on the web, it goes and checks the config file |
| 19:45.56 | harleypig | Not sure what you mean |
| 19:46.10 | maquis | (if it's doing that, it's stupid, but that would cause it to take a while) |
| 19:46.35 | maquis | harleypig: i'm not sure what i'm talking about... i'm just trying to brainstorm ideas for what *could* be wrong |
| 19:46.55 | maquis | since i don't really know how a dns server works, some of the ideas might be pretty far out |
| 19:47.53 | harleypig | :] What's confusing me is that harleypigprogramming.com is responding immediately and scripturestudy.org is not. Yet they are both in the data file, and I've recompiled the data file twice. Hmmm ... maybe restarting the service, but that doesn't make any sense. |
| 19:49.17 | harleypig | GAHHH! That took it up to 35 seconds. |
| 19:49.39 | harleypig | But once it starts replying ping times are in the .100 - .200 ms range. |
| 19:51.30 | harleypig | Hmmm ... maybe it's not djbdns, but how the request is getting there. |
| 19:59.15 | harleypig | Nope. dnsstuff shows it getting to my server just fine. My server isn't even responding to the request. |
| 19:59.29 | maquis | dnsstuff... :) |
| 19:59.38 | maquis | ok... so, this is annoying |
| 19:59.44 | maquis | i had mounds of homework to do last night |
| 19:59.52 | harleypig | :] www.dnsstuff.com has some really good tools all in one place. |
| 20:00.00 | harleypig | And you got none done right? |
| 20:00.01 | maquis | and i *tried*... but ended up getting distracted |
| 20:00.25 | maquis | and eventually, i spent a large portion of the evening failing at setting up fetchmail, postfix, procmail and mutt |
| 20:05.22 | harleypig | That's called yak shaving. |
| 20:06.01 | maquis | harleypig: yeah... |
| 20:06.08 | maquis | although, it is an important task |
| 20:06.17 | harleypig | :] |
| 20:06.18 | maquis | i really want to get it working... i just can't seem to get it |
| 20:06.33 | maquis | tis really frustrating |
| 20:09.36 | harleypig | all of them? |
| 20:10.44 | maquis | trying to set them all up together and get them to play nicely |
| 20:10.52 | maquis | currently, fetchmail is working fine at grabbing the mail |
| 20:11.10 | maquis | but when it tries to deliver it, port 25 is closed (and i can't for the life of me figure out why) |
| 20:11.19 | maquis | postfix is running |
| 20:12.15 | maquis | (i determines that port 25 was closed from a combination of google, nmap, and telnet |
| 20:16.27 | maquis | harleypig: ever seen that before? |
| 20:18.21 | harleypig | run netstat -a and look for 25 |
| 20:18.25 | harleypig | err .. :25 |
| 20:18.38 | harleypig | or ?mtp |
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| 20:19.01 | maquis | [osiris aes] netstat -a | grep 25 |
| 20:19.01 | maquis | unix 2 [ ] DGRAM 152588 |
| 20:19.19 | maquis | [osiris aes] netstat -a | grep mtp |
| 20:19.19 | maquis | unix 2 [ ACC ] STREAM LISTENING 175389 private/smtp |
| 20:19.46 | harleypig | Looks like you have an smtp service listening |
| 20:19.54 | maquis | harleypig: but where's it listening? |
| 20:20.05 | harleypig | Do you have telnet installed? |
| 20:20.10 | maquis | yeah |
| 20:20.25 | maquis | [osiris aes] telnet localhost 25 |
| 20:20.25 | maquis | Trying 127.0.0.1... |
| 20:20.25 | maquis | telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused |
| 20:20.26 | maquis | [osiris aes] telnet localhost 25 |
| 20:20.26 | maquis | Trying 127.0.0.1... |
| 20:20.28 | maquis | telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused |
| 20:20.30 | maquis | oops |
| 20:21.10 | harleypig | Check the status of you smtp service (usualy something like /etc/init.d/smtp status |
| 20:21.21 | harleypig | replace smtp with whatever is appropriate |
| 20:21.57 | maquis | hmmm |
| 20:22.14 | maquis | [osiris aes] /etc/init.d/smtp status |
| 20:22.14 | maquis | zsh: no such file or directory: /etc/init.d/smtp |
| 20:22.14 | maquis | [osiris aes] /etc/init.d/postfix status |
| 20:22.14 | maquis | Usage: /etc/init.d/postfix {start|stop|restart|reload|flush|check|abort|force-reload} |
| 20:22.19 | harleypig | also check any error logs. |
| 20:22.42 | harleypig | hmph. I'm too used to gentoo. |
| 20:23.02 | harleypig | usually /var/log will have the necessary log file(s) |
| 20:23.07 | maquis | /var/log/mail.log has: |
| 20:23.23 | maquis | Sep 11 14:24:13 localhost fetchmail[9917]: SMTP connect to localhost failed |
| 20:23.23 | maquis | Sep 11 14:24:13 localhost fetchmail[9917]: POP3> QUIT |
| 20:23.23 | maquis | Sep 11 14:24:13 localhost fetchmail[9917]: POP3< ------=_Part_5472_648349.1125981590029 |
| 20:23.26 | maquis | Sep 11 14:24:13 localhost fetchmail[9917]: SMTP transaction error while fetching from pop.gmail.com |
| 20:23.40 | maquis | i googled that yesterday and found that it's because fetchmail can't connect to port 25 |
| 20:24.33 | maquis | /var/log/mail.err has: |
| 20:24.39 | maquis | Sep 11 14:25:47 localhost fetchmail[9917]: Not supported |
| 20:24.39 | maquis | Sep 11 14:25:50 localhost fetchmail[9917]: SMTP connect to localhost failed |
| 20:24.39 | maquis | Sep 11 14:25:50 localhost fetchmail[9917]: SMTP transaction error while fetching from pop.gmail.com |
| 20:24.51 | harleypig | It's been more than a year since I've done any kind of mail troubleshooting. |
| 20:25.00 | harleypig | Does postfix have a log file? |
| 20:25.09 | harleypig | Or is it dumping to mail.* |
| 20:25.12 | maquis | not sure... i haven't seen one... |
| 20:25.21 | maquis | the things being dumped to mail.* seem to all be from fetchmail |
| 20:25.33 | maquis | i can try restarting postfix and see if it mentions anything there, though |
| 20:25.44 | harleypig | I'm not familiar with postfix ... check it's config files, see if it has it in there somewhere. yeah, that works too. |
| 20:26.01 | maquis | hmmm doesn't seem to be posting there... i'll see if i can figureo ut where it's writing logs too |
| 20:40.14 | maquis | from google, it looks like it should be writing to /var/log/mail.log |
| 20:43.13 | maquis | ha |
| 20:43.21 | maquis | i got it to post *something* there |
| 20:43.57 | maquis | doesn't appear to be having any errors, though |
| 20:45.46 | *** join/#utah tensai (n=tensai@kite.zmonkey.org) |
| 20:45.50 | bonez39 | maquis, harleypig do either of you run mailman? |
| 20:46.13 | harleypig | bonez39: nope |
| 20:46.19 | bonez39 | ok.... |
| 20:46.56 | harleypig | maquis: Dunno. *shrug* You might try the #postfix channel (I think there's one on this netwrok) |
| 20:50.13 | maquis | bonez39: nope |
| 20:50.26 | maquis | harleypig: yeah.. s'pose i could try there... |
| 20:50.34 | maquis | other channels are scary, though |
| 20:50.47 | harleypig | :D |
| 20:57.28 | hans | what do you call that bit of words at the beginning and end of a music video? |
| 20:59.25 | harleypig | fade in / fade out? |
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| 22:03.37 | linuxalien | Hey, anyone here in Ogden and likes to go to Coffee shops? |
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| 22:08.27 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
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| 23:00.15 | levi | Anyone around? |
| 23:02.55 | linuxalien | Not me...going home for dinner. Laterz |
| 23:56.30 | Supaplex | ... |
