| 00:02.32 | *** join/#utah {-} (n=sjansen@h4606a356.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 00:31.53 | jakea | good grief, I leave for a week and come back and PLUG has 5 billion flamewars |
| 00:57.52 | {-} | jakea: never leave us again |
| 01:05.54 | *** join/#utah findlay (n=justin@208.187.196.229) |
| 01:06.06 | findlay | hello |
| 01:06.10 | findlay | ~lart maquis |
| 01:06.21 | findlay | yes! |
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| 01:57.09 | maquis | ~lart findlay |
| 02:06.34 | findlay | ~lart maquis back |
| 02:09.06 | RyanE | what's a 9-POLE serial cable, anyway? 9-pin, yes. 9-pole... naw |
| 02:09.39 | findlay | perhaps you are not familliar with the magnetic monopole conjecture |
| 02:10.22 | RyanE | not familiar enough to care, that's for sure. :) I like my serial cables with pins. |
| 02:10.23 | findlay | if there are monopoles, then there can be magnetic currents and magnetic potential |
| 02:10.50 | findlay | Maxwell's equations assume a higher degree of symmetry |
| 02:11.35 | RyanE | right, but it still won't convince me that ibot is right to call them that. |
| 02:13.12 | RyanE | s'pose so. |
| 02:47.23 | maquis | ~lart findlay behind his back |
| 02:49.12 | xbmodder | hey |
| 02:50.59 | xbmodder | Mhmm, my uncle just commited suicide :( |
| 02:56.11 | maquis | xbmodder: sorry to hear that |
| 02:58.33 | levi | Oh, wow, there are people here now. |
| 03:00.11 | mheath | Does anyone have any suggestions on where, preferably locally (or, if not, online) I could pick up a SCSI CD-ROM drive? |
| 03:03.11 | levi | Hah. So, my ancient operating systems professor kept asking if anyone had heard of 'bubble memory', which he said was some new, promising memory technology. Turns out it was only promising back in the 70s, and it died entirely in the 80s. |
| 03:05.31 | mheath | levi: my dad sometimes says things like that. |
| 03:05.49 | mheath | He used to be very skilled with computer technology back in that era |
| 03:05.55 | mheath | and now knows almost nothing about it :( |
| 03:06.14 | levi | Yeah, same with this guy. He did operating systems development at IBM. |
| 03:06.39 | xbmodder | maquis, yeah though i didn't know him well... |
| 03:06.47 | mheath | levi, I doubt he's as dumb now as my dad is |
| 03:07.06 | mheath | My dad used to do advanced hardware hacking, including creating complete homebrew systems |
| 03:07.19 | mheath | He did lots of programming, in Pascal and Assembly |
| 03:07.25 | levi | Well, I dunno. He's been doing/teaching finance for the last 20 years. |
| 03:07.53 | mheath | We've got books on compiler design and programming that he used to code a homemade pascal compiler with |
| 03:08.01 | mheath | (with his notes scribbled all throughout it) |
| 03:08.08 | mheath | Now, though? |
| 03:08.33 | mheath | He uses Windows XP, AOL, and gets angry when I suggest he tries Linux. |
| 03:09.11 | xbmodder | lol |
| 03:09.21 | xbmodder | We've got books on compiler design and programming that he used to code a homemade pascal compiler with < thats cool. |
| 03:09.56 | levi | mheath: Well, that doesn't mean he's stupid, just that he'd rather be doing other things now. Hobbies change. |
| 03:10.11 | hans | weird |
| 03:10.20 | levi | hans: What's weird? |
| 03:10.21 | hans | Sep 4 21:08:51 falcon init: Id "1" respawning too fast: disabled for 5 minutes |
| 03:10.26 | hans | also 5,4,3,6, and 2 |
| 03:10.35 | hans | so I tried to switch to a virtual terminal, and I can't |
| 03:10.45 | hans | and turns out my x is on vc2, not vc7 |
| 03:10.45 | xbmodder | hans, inittab post? |
| 03:10.53 | hans | 1:2345:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty1 |
| 03:10.55 | hans | 2:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty2 |
| 03:10.56 | hans | etc. |
| 03:11.03 | xbmodder | hans, you looked alot different that i thought you would -- |
| 03:11.18 | hans | when did you see me? |
| 03:11.22 | xbmodder | hans, try starting X -- login as root and run "/sbin/getty 38400 tty2" |
| 03:11.24 | xbmodder | orkut |
| 03:11.29 | hans | I'm in X |
| 03:11.44 | hans | apparently if I wasn't, I'd have a hard time doing anything |
| 03:11.51 | hans | (gdm) |
| 03:12.10 | xbmodder | hans, go start a konsole as root |
| 03:12.18 | xbmodder | and tell me what that command does |
| 03:13.15 | hans | sits for awhile and then returns |
| 03:14.46 | hans | /dev/tty* = /dev/tty |
| 03:14.53 | hans | wonder if that has anything to do with it |
| 03:16.06 | xbmodder | maybe |
| 03:36.55 | levi | Mmmm, vanilla bean ice cream with fresh raspberries and blackberries from a local grower. |
| 03:41.44 | dataw0lf- | yum |
| 03:41.47 | dataw0lf- | thanks alot levi |
| 03:41.53 | dataw0lf- | me wants, now. |
| 03:41.57 | levi | It was indeed yum! |
| 03:42.03 | levi | The berries were incredibly sweet. |
| 03:42.07 | dataw0lf- | argh |
| 03:42.22 | levi | Just go visit a Farmer's Market. :) |
| 03:42.30 | dataw0lf- | hehe, I'll have to now. |
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| 03:45.46 | hans | sigh |
| 03:45.47 | hans | http://groups.google.com/group/linux.debian.bugs.dist/browse_frm/thread/a0f6db90516b0783/645fcdc8390b9dff?lnk=st&q=udev+getty+tty1&rnum=1&hl=en#645fcdc8390b9dff |
| 03:45.57 | hans | I have had this very problem before, and completely spaced it. |
| 03:46.08 | levi | Man, I should stop reading about the hurricane disaster relief fiasco. |
| 03:46.32 | roscivs | It's depressing, eh Levi? |
| 03:46.41 | levi | roscivs: Yes, it is. |
| 03:46.43 | roscivs | I heard a rescue chopper went down today. |
| 03:48.44 | hans | well, this is in /etc/udev/compat.rules |
| 03:48.45 | hans | #KERNEL="tty[0-9]*", SYMLINK="%k" |
| 03:48.55 | mheath | It's pathetic, imho. But I'm not sure it's worth going in to. |
| 03:49.03 | mheath | (The relief thus far) |
| 03:50.04 | levi | I'm not going to point any fingers here, just express amazement at how awful things are. |
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| 03:51.19 | mheath | My concern..... |
| 03:51.31 | roscivs | So ... you know how when you start X, it changes the permissions on /dev/dsp and various other files? |
| 03:51.44 | roscivs | Apparently that overrides the permissions set in your udev rules. |
| 03:51.55 | hans | i think that's distro-specific behavior |
| 03:52.03 | mheath | The organizations that are coordinating and providing relief are the same organizations that we were supposedly improving over the last 4 years, in order to prevent and deal with another terrorist attack. |
| 03:52.08 | hans | i.e. I think it's a rotten thing to do and not every distro does it. |
| 03:52.18 | roscivs | Where do you change what permissions it gives them when you log into X? |
| 03:52.25 | hans | (and I've thought that since way before udev and devfs) |
| 03:52.29 | roscivs | (This is Fedora, in case you know this distro-specific behavior) |
| 03:52.39 | mheath | What would happen in the event of a chemical, biological, or nuclear attack? |
| 03:53.06 | mheath | roscivs, its going to be made from your xinit file. |
| 03:53.30 | roscivs | In re Katrina, I think for the most part, people are doing the best they can with what they have now ... the problem is that the preparation was abominable. |
| 03:53.34 | mheath | roscivs, or better yet, make the owner and group root so that it can't be tampered with when another user runs X |
| 03:53.37 | roscivs | Simple things could have made a big difference. |
| 03:54.01 | hans | mheath: that won't help, X starts as root |
| 03:54.02 | roscivs | mheath: I think they're overridden anyway ... |
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| 03:54.46 | mheath | Where are more national guard troops? Where are more buses? Where are more basic supplies, and hygiene necesities? |
| 03:54.55 | mheath | And where is the engineering effort to fix the levees? |
| 03:55.10 | levi | mheath: There are troops there /turning away/ the other stuff. |
| 03:55.13 | roscivs | Anyway, I've gone on off Katrina news for the weekend. Too depressing, and I needed a break after following it so closely last week. |
| 03:55.35 | mheath | "Lets get one helicopter....and drop sand bags one by one into a deep and long break in the levee..." |
| 03:55.46 | mheath | "Oh, and we can push dirt in from the other end..' |
| 03:56.07 | mheath | Why don |
| 03:56.11 | roscivs | mheath: The national guard troups should have been in the country before Katrina hit, New Orleans school + transit buses could have been moved to higher ground before Katrina hit, |
| 03:56.35 | roscivs | and the levees were in need of repair before Katrina hit, but the money budgeted for reinforcing them was spent elsewhere. |
| 03:56.59 | roscivs | Oops. You got me ranting. Back to hunting through xinit files! |
| 03:57.11 | mheath | Why don't they make a wooden patch, float it down the channel thats RIGHT THERE, and put it into place? |
| 03:57.34 | mheath | They're dropping sandbags. They'll have to make a more permanent fix eventually, anyway.....Why not just do it to begin with? |
| 03:57.54 | roscivs | I thought even the sandbag thing wasn't working? (This was a few days ago though.) |
| 03:58.22 | roscivs | Not finding it in xinit. Do you think gdm could be responsible? |
| 03:59.26 | mheath | roscivs, not unless redhat's put some weird patches to it (which is possible) |
| 04:00.50 | roscivs | I've grepped through the entirety of /etc (for dsp) and still can't find it. |
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| 05:19.54 | levi | Man, this book is really good. Should be required reading for CS students at some level. |
| 05:29.51 | xbmodder | what book |
| 05:30.02 | xbmodder | maquis, you got an orkut? |
| 05:30.09 | levi | Concepts, Techniques, and Models of Computer Programming |
| 05:33.06 | xbmodder | i am having a bad day |
| 05:34.49 | levi | That's too bad. |
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| 08:40.02 | Hhhhh | hello |
| 11:39.31 | *** join/#utah {-} (n=sjansen@h4607b0cf.area7.spcsdns.net) |
| 11:40.04 | {-} | Heh. So what're my chancing of finding someone else awake at 5:45 am on a holiday? |
| 12:40.32 | *** join/#utah {-} (n=sjansen@h46072ce7.area7.spcsdns.net) |
| 12:41.31 | {-} | Yargh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 12:41.39 | {-} | Flight cancelled. |
| 13:32.00 | maquis | morning |
| 13:32.05 | maquis | {-}: sorry |
| 13:36.22 | *** topic/#utah by maquis -> The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, uphpu.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com. See planetutah.adelantellc.com for aggregate feed | BYU Installfest --- September 10. See uug.byu.edu for more information | Get Jeff Waugh to come to utah. Send an email with name to TuxGirl@gmail.com or Stuporglue@gmail.com to sign the petition! |
| 13:37.16 | *** join/#utah RyanE (n=ryan@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 13:40.45 | tensai | maquis: who? what? |
| 13:40.57 | maquis | Jeff Waugh --- Ubuntu guy |
| 13:41.11 | maquis | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BadgerBadgerBadgerTour |
| 13:42.34 | maquis | tensai: uug is trying to set this up --- all local LUGs are invited... |
| 13:44.12 | {-} | tensai: that means you're welcome to drive down and attend if you sign the petition |
| 13:44.24 | maquis | tensai: yes... |
| 13:45.47 | tensai | maquis: so why this guy? just a random hacker or was there a reason? |
| 13:46.47 | maquis | he's on the Ubuntu team |
| 13:48.04 | tensai | ok. but does somebody know him or are you petitioning him out of the blue? |
| 13:49.00 | maquis | tensai: did you see the link? he's looking for petitions of places to visit on this world tour |
| 13:50.16 | maquis | tensai: just trying to get some cool speakers for uug... |
| 13:50.31 | tensai | ah, I see now |
| 14:13.23 | hans | anyone know mike handy? |
| 14:15.09 | maquis | ~lart hans |
| 14:32.10 | maquis | ~lart AES |
| 14:44.13 | maquis | ~rot13 hello |
| 14:44.13 | ibot | uryyb |
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| 14:44.35 | maquis | ~lart moriah |
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| 15:28.55 | xbmodder | hey |
| 15:29.49 | *** join/#utah mheath (n=mheath@c-67-161-213-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 15:33.12 | xbmodder | anyone home? |
| 15:38.10 | hans | nope |
| 15:38.37 | hans | ~praise wondershaper |
| 15:38.38 | ibot | All hail wondershaper! |
| 15:38.59 | hans | so I spend way too long yesterday trying to set up my special voip qos script, with no real luck |
| 15:39.14 | hans | then today I try wondershaper, and even though it's not voip-specific, it works VERY well |
| 15:39.30 | hans | http://lartc.org/wondershaper/ |
| 15:51.02 | xbmodder | Thats good for you |
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| 16:02.40 | maquis | stupid question: it's possible to return an array in C, right? |
| 16:02.44 | maquis | for example: |
| 16:02.52 | maquis | ffield[] subWord(ffield[] w) |
| 16:03.10 | maquis | (i'm getting a syntax error...) |
| 16:05.19 | xbmodder | didja try #C |
| 16:06.19 | RyanE | maquis: I don't think so, although you could return a pointer, which could point at an array. |
| 16:07.02 | maquis | RyanE: ok... |
| 16:07.04 | maquis | thanks |
| 16:07.07 | RyanE | usually, if you're modifying an array, you'd pass a pointer to the array as a param. |
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| 16:16.53 | hans | oh my. Nerds://A Musical Software Satire |
| 16:17.21 | xbmodder | cool |
| 16:21.28 | hans | ha. "PayPal freezes Hurricane Relief Account" |
| 16:21.34 | hans | stupid idiots |
| 16:21.45 | hans | (no, I'm not bitter at paypal. nah.) |
| 16:22.43 | hans | " |
| 16:22.49 | hans | MySQL and SCO join forces" |
| 16:23.01 | maquis | hans: ????? |
| 16:26.30 | hans | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:36.53 | xbmodder | ~slashdot |
| 16:53.42 | maquis | http://pastebin.com/355328 |
| 16:54.24 | maquis | my friend is having a weird error where things are printing out as ffffffcc instead of cc |
| 16:54.48 | maquis | i'm not seeing the error, but my version is working fine |
| 16:55.14 | maquis | we're not seeing any fundamental differences between our versions |
| 16:55.35 | levi | What's it supposed to do? |
| 16:57.41 | mheath | I'm going to have to set up Solaris on here...hmmm... |
| 16:57.45 | maquis | it's supposed to print out cc |
| 16:57.46 | maquis | :) |
| 16:57.48 | maquis | no... ummm |
| 16:57.53 | maquis | let's see if i can explain better |
| 16:58.18 | maquis | it's supposed to do some changes on some ffields (typedef'd unsigned chars), and then prints out the results |
| 16:58.36 | maquis | just a sec... |
| 16:58.42 | maquis | er... |
| 16:58.50 | maquis | hers aren't typedef'd |
| 16:59.08 | maquis | there's someplace |
| 16:59.30 | maquis | that she's not keeping it as unsigned |
| 16:59.37 | levi | Ahh. |
| 16:59.38 | maquis | which is probably causing the ffffff |
| 16:59.45 | maquis | w00t! |
| 16:59.48 | maquis | it worked |
| 16:59.49 | levi | Yup, sign extension. |
| 16:59.54 | maquis | thanks everyone |
| 17:00.13 | levi | Was that your version or her version? |
| 17:00.17 | maquis | her version... |
| 17:00.29 | maquis | mine was using a typedef for unsigned char |
| 17:00.35 | maquis | and therefore didn't have the issue |
| 17:01.32 | levi | Where did you add the unsigned? |
| 17:02.01 | maquis | instead of accepting/returning char*s, she switched it to unsigned char*s |
| 17:02.09 | levi | Ahh. |
| 17:03.10 | mheath | Anyone want some free old hardware? |
| 17:03.28 | mheath | It's literally to the point where I need to get rid of it or it's going in the garbage. |
| 17:04.12 | levi | I don't have room for any more hardware. Sorry. |
| 17:07.24 | *** join/#utah findlay (n=justin@208.187.196.229) |
| 17:07.47 | findlay | why can't I mount a floppy as a normal user? |
| 17:08.36 | findlay | /dev/fd0 /mnt/floppy auto,vfat noauto,owner 0 0 |
| 17:08.38 | findlay | ? |
| 17:08.51 | findlay | ??? |
| 17:09.38 | mheath | findlay, because you have it configured so only root can mount it? |
| 17:09.44 | findlay | how? |
| 17:10.13 | mheath | findlay, you need to add another option after owner....it's either "user" or "users", I forget which |
| 17:10.58 | findlay | aha, from manpage: |
| 17:11.03 | findlay | ... ``user'' (allow a user to mount) ... |
| 17:11.33 | findlay | thanks mheath |
| 17:13.34 | mheath | findlay: don't mention it. |
| 17:13.59 | maquis | mheath: what hardware? |
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| 17:14.14 | maquis | ~lart emcnabb |
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| 17:15.06 | mheath | maquis, I've got three Pentium I desktops, a Pentium II desktop, a Pentium II dual proc server (but its incomplete), a sun ultra enterprise 1... |
| 17:15.19 | *** part/#utah mindjuju (n=mindjuju@216.20.238.225) |
| 17:15.59 | mheath | A nice (but older) laser printer.. |
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| 17:41.51 | hans | heh. I'm listening to the "Qt 4 Dance" |
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| 17:45.51 | hans | http://www.trolltech.com/video/qt4dance.html |
| 17:51.58 | levi | hans: Oh my. |
| 17:53.37 | levi | I never would have thought to pronounce Qt as 'cute'. |
| 18:08.17 | hans | same here |
| 18:08.26 | hans | cutie had occured to me |
| 18:29.55 | findlay | ~lart larthappy maquis |
| 18:32.17 | maquis | ~lart findlay for larting maquis |
| 18:35.24 | maquis | ok... trying to figure something out and hoping for some advince |
| 18:36.03 | maquis | i'm working on implementing AES, and we're doing a lot with words (4 bytes), and a lot with bytes inside of words.... |
| 18:36.42 | maquis | so far, i've been keeping my words as char*s which have 4 chars each |
| 18:37.16 | maquis | however, i'm wondering if it is better to do that, or to keep them in ints where each int is a word |
| 18:37.39 | maquis | the hard thing i'm seeing with keeping them in ints is that it's a lot harder to grab the individual bytes |
| 18:37.47 | maquis | and manipulate the bytes |
| 18:41.02 | hans | well, if it were me I'd probably either use typedef char[4] foo; or use a type that is 4 bytes and unsigned |
| 18:41.13 | hans | depending on how it will be used |
| 18:41.27 | maquis | hans: i was having problems with returning char[4] to functions |
| 18:41.37 | maquis | or at least returning char[] |
| 18:41.42 | hans | you can always write a function/macro to get at the individual bytes of an int |
| 18:41.42 | maquis | maybe that's what the problem was... |
| 18:41.45 | hans | maquis: right |
| 18:41.55 | maquis | hans: right to which part |
| 18:42.07 | hans | arrays are a real pain to return |
| 18:42.20 | maquis | ah... |
| 18:42.41 | hans | byte(val,1) for the second byte, for example |
| 18:42.51 | hans | could be a macro something like |
| 18:43.18 | maquis | hans: true... it just seems like a pain.. |
| 18:43.25 | maquis | but at the same time, it's not that much of a pain |
| 18:43.44 | hans | #DEFINE byte(val, b) ((val >> b) & 0xf) |
| 18:43.52 | hans | if my macro syntax is correct, of course |
| 18:44.04 | maquis | hans: what would that return? another int or an unsigned char/ |
| 18:44.05 | maquis | ? |
| 18:44.17 | hans | it's still an int, if val is an int |
| 18:44.30 | hans | but you can of course cast it. |
| 18:44.36 | hans | don't forget you're gonna want unsigned int |
| 18:44.37 | findlay | oh no, you're all talking in code |
| 18:44.51 | maquis | hans: yeah... |
| 18:45.27 | hans | actually consider finding more descriptive typenames. u32_t or something |
| 18:45.52 | maquis | hans: huh? |
| 18:45.57 | hans | there's an include file that has them all. I think it's a little clearer than remembering that long is 32 bits on i386 and remembering that your code will break when used on a 64-bit machine |
| 18:46.05 | maquis | you mean to resolve the "is an int actually 4 bytes?" question? |
| 18:46.12 | maquis | yeah... |
| 18:46.21 | hans | some .h file with typedefs for the architecture |
| 18:46.26 | hans | abstracting the types. |
| 18:47.15 | maquis | hmmm |
| 18:47.17 | hans | u for unsigned, 32 for 32 bits |
| 18:47.31 | hans | but for your current project I'm sure you can get away with unsigned long. |
| 18:47.38 | maquis | yeah... |
| 18:47.48 | maquis | :( |
| 18:47.57 | maquis | it just looks like it's going to get ugly |
| 18:48.49 | hans | well pick your poison. If you use char*, you will be passing around pointers, not arrays. type- and bounds-checking basically is your job |
| 18:49.06 | maquis | hans: that part's fine with me |
| 18:49.07 | hans | or you can bitmask, optionally with the help of a macro or function |
| 18:49.12 | hans | maquis: it shouldn't be. ;-) |
| 18:49.17 | maquis | the problem is, we have to deal with a big huge array of words |
| 18:49.21 | hans | i guess there is another option |
| 18:49.23 | maquis | which i don't feel like dealing with |
| 18:49.27 | maquis | hans: which is? |
| 18:49.39 | hans | a packed struct |
| 18:50.37 | maquis | ?? |
| 18:51.13 | hans | or using this idiom: unsigned long foo = 0xddccbbaa; ((uchar *)&foo)+i |
| 18:51.37 | hans | where i is 0-4, depending on the byte you want |
| 18:51.49 | maquis | huh? |
| 18:52.15 | hans | struct mywordstruct { uchar b1; uchar b2; uchar b3; uchar b4 }; |
| 18:52.41 | hans | but it will need to be packed, and you'll need to see the gcc docs on how to do that. |
| 18:53.01 | hans | struct mywordstruct foo = (struct mywordstruct) 0xddccbbaa; |
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| 18:53.27 | hans | the easy way is not the way that involves less thinking or typing, but the way that fits what you're doing |
| 18:53.55 | maquis | yeah |
| 18:54.02 | hans | if you're working a word at a time, then work with words |
| 18:54.16 | hans | if you're working a byte at a time, then work with bytes |
| 18:54.22 | maquis | hans: but we're sometimes working a word at atime, and sometimes working a byte at a time |
| 18:54.36 | hans | usually in that case you go with the word |
| 18:54.56 | hans | you could read some kernel code or some openssl code or something and see what they do |
| 18:55.21 | hans | bit twiddling is an art, because there are so many ways to do it, and some are so much clearer |
| 18:55.22 | maquis | hans: question |
| 18:55.43 | hans | the best way, as with any art, is to read an artist's code. |
| 18:56.05 | maquis | what would be a simple way to add something like 0xcc as the 3rd byte in an int? |
| 18:56.28 | maquis | without changing the rest of the int |
| 18:56.35 | hans | you want to make the 3rd byte 0xcc, or you want to add 0xcc to the third byte? |
| 18:56.43 | maquis | make the 3rd byte 0xcc |
| 18:57.13 | hans | (foo & 0xff00ffff) | 0x00cc0000 |
| 18:57.23 | maquis | mmk |
| 18:57.27 | maquis | that's the best i could think of too |
| 18:57.28 | hans | or equivalently, |
| 18:58.15 | hans | (foo & ~(0xff << 16)) | (0xcc << 16) |
| 18:59.12 | hans | if you do that alot, write a function or macro |
| 18:59.23 | hans | set_byte(foo, 2, 0xcc) |
| 19:01.12 | maquis | hans: cool |
| 19:01.18 | maquis | thanks for the hel |
| 19:01.19 | maquis | p |
| 19:02.05 | tensai | maquis: you can cast an int* as a char* and then index foo[2], I think |
| 19:02.48 | maquis | tensai: moriah and i were thinking about that, but figured it was probably stupid |
| 19:03.04 | tensai | I agree, but I think it's possible |
| 19:03.15 | maquis | hahaha |
| 19:03.46 | hans | oh yes, you can do that |
| 19:04.06 | hans | I think it's on the same level as passing around char* to begin with |
| 19:04.14 | maquis | doh... |
| 19:04.29 | hans | which isn't necessarily brain-damaging |
| 19:05.06 | hans | i don't think that's a kluge - it's just a shortcut to pointer arithmetic |
| 19:05.33 | maquis | hmmm |
| 19:05.44 | maquis | btw, did plug die? |
| 19:05.51 | hans | but you end up casting left and right. do you like parentheses? |
| 19:06.19 | maquis | hans: nope, but i will have to by the end of the semester thanks to scheme... |
| 19:06.20 | maquis | :) |
| 19:06.34 | hans | of course, if you don't like casting left and right we end up at the macro solution again |
| 19:06.58 | hans | which I think is going to be your best bet. write macros or functions for things you do a lot (as in, more than once or maybe twice) |
| 19:07.19 | hans | then you can be elegant, clever, or lazy in how you actually implement the macros/functions |
| 19:07.50 | hans | and agree on a common type for most functions (unless they operate on only one byte for example) |
| 19:08.20 | hans | really no need to not use functions unless speed is an issue, but knowing macros is important too |
| 19:09.21 | maquis | what do you put at the end of s/foo/blah/ to make it ask for each one? |
| 19:09.41 | maquis | (this is a different problem) |
| 19:09.48 | maquis | nm |
| 19:09.50 | maquis | i found it |
| 19:15.33 | maquis | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:15.43 | maquis | hans: does this look right: |
| 19:15.50 | maquis | #define getByte(thisWord, num) ((thisWord >> (4*b)) & 0xf) |
| 19:15.52 | maquis | oops |
| 19:15.58 | maquis | double-clicked |
| 19:16.21 | maquis | er... |
| 19:16.27 | maquis | 8*b? |
| 19:16.46 | maquis | 0xff |
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| 19:27.21 | *** part/#utah dataw0lf- (n=dataw0lf@c-24-10-173-249.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 19:29.16 | *** join/#utah dataw0lf- (n=dataw0lf@c-24-10-173-249.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 19:32.01 | maquis | bah |
| 19:32.04 | maquis | it failed |
| 19:39.36 | maquis | w00t! |
| 19:42.45 | findlay | (: |
| 19:50.08 | mheath | Anyone know how much it would cost for a working, used projector? |
| 19:50.39 | findlay | a lot |
| 19:50.42 | findlay | ebay? |
| 19:51.35 | maquis | mheath: do you mean the cool computer projectors or the lame stick a slide on the screen overhead projectors? |
| 19:51.56 | mheath | maquis, computer projectors. |
| 19:53.57 | *** join/#utah bonez41 (n=bonez@drjones.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 19:54.02 | maquis | ah.. |
| 19:54.04 | maquis | expensive |
| 19:54.47 | maquis | hmmm |
| 19:54.56 | bonez41 | what's new maquis...? |
| 19:54.59 | maquis | all the individual methods are passing their test functions |
| 19:55.08 | maquis | but when i combine them together, they fail miserably |
| 19:55.22 | maquis | bonez41: not much... just trying to implement AES |
| 19:55.43 | bonez41 | oh, a security standard? |
| 19:56.10 | maquis | yeah... |
| 19:56.43 | maquis | oh... |
| 19:56.46 | maquis | that was stupid |
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| 19:57.09 | *** join/#utah bigdog_ut (n=bigdog_u@shylonhunter.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 19:58.50 | maquis | me hangs head in shame at that error |
| 19:59.30 | bonez41 | how can i tell what processes are accessing a mounted drive? |
| 19:59.41 | bonez41 | maquis, you are too hard on yourself.. |
| 19:59.43 | maquis | lsof | grep /dev/hd* |
| 19:59.51 | maquis | or something to that effect |
| 20:00.04 | maquis | bonez41: i dunno... this was a stupid error |
| 20:02.00 | maquis | would be slightly less stupid if i hadn't made the same mistake a number of times in the past week |
| 20:02.08 | bonez41 | ok.. |
| 20:03.48 | bonez41 | maquis, that lsof doesn't show anything.... |
| 20:03.55 | bonez41 | no response..just the prompt returns |
| 20:04.02 | maquis | ummm |
| 20:04.14 | maquis | does lsof show anything without the grep? |
| 20:04.24 | maquis | oops |
| 20:04.41 | maquis | you want to grep for wherever the drive is mounted.. |
| 20:04.42 | maquis | :) |
| 20:08.05 | maquis | bonez41: did that work? |
| 20:26.25 | hans | This is way cool |
| 20:26.25 | hans | http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~music/video/watersound.mov |
| 20:34.04 | bonez41 | nothing...from lsof |
| 20:34.20 | bonez41 | damn...wait..yeah, it does now..... |
| 20:34.40 | bonez41 | too much...just 'lsof' at the prompt...several screens full |
| 20:35.33 | maquis | bonez41: | it to a grep for the mount-point of the drive |
| 20:37.07 | hans | lol. these are great |
| 20:37.15 | bonez41 | I run 'lsof | grep /dev/hda' and I get NOTHING...just a prompt |
| 20:37.48 | hans | sometimes lsof doesn't see everything. annoying huh |
| 20:38.12 | bonez41 | well, for mine here..it sees nothing... |
| 20:38.24 | maquis | bonez41: not /dev/hda |
| 20:38.33 | maquis | bonez41: /mnt/foo or /boot/ or whatever |
| 20:38.47 | bonez41 | I ran cp -a /old/drive/with/stuff /drive/with/ to copy over the /stuff/ drive and contents..to new hard drive.... |
| 20:39.02 | bonez41 | and i think I have moved it all over, but apparently something is still accessing old drive data... |
| 20:39.38 | bonez41 | maquis, ah, the mount point..not the literal named device...that works better now |
| 20:39.53 | maquis | bonez41: yeah |
| 20:40.13 | bonez41 | ok..that's making more sense |
| 20:43.42 | hans | http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05123/497993.stm |
| 20:44.12 | *** join/#utah harleypig (n=Clint@65.73.113.162) |
| 20:55.49 | bonez41 | so I run 'lsof | grep /oldhome' which is the /home directory on old hard drive.. and it lists these: fyrenice:/oldhome/.Trash-scott# lsof | grep /oldhome |
| 20:55.49 | bonez41 | famd 1323 scott 23r DIR 3,69 4096 16297 /oldhome/.Trash-scott |
| 20:56.17 | bonez41 | I thought /.Trash-scott would be the recycle bin on desktop, but it's not, is it? |
| 20:57.54 | bonez41 | even if I delete /oldhome/.Trash-scott lsof still lists it, plus fact that it's now deleted |
| 21:00.59 | bonez41 | thanks...gotta run |
| 21:07.37 | *** join/#utah andrew_word (n=school@204.113.238.250) |
| 21:07.57 | andrew_word | Is anyone a shell-scripting genius? |
| 21:08.12 | andrew_word | I'm trying to write a script that will wait until a certain application closes. |
| 21:08.45 | andrew_word | All I can find is 'wait', but when I use that it says "Test.command: line 4: wait: pid 505 is not a child of this shell" |
| 21:09.27 | andrew_word | Any ideas? |
| 21:20.20 | *** join/#utah bootyCon (n=bucky@170-215-92-119.bras01.mob.ut.frontiernet.net) |
| 21:22.45 | tensai | andrew_word: well, I have a script. should have been a little bit more patient. what do you expect on a holiday? |
| 21:25.23 | maquis | tensai: :) |
| 21:33.00 | *** join/#utah sjansen-treo (n=upirc@h46077345.area7.spcsdns.net) |
| 21:33.08 | maquis | ~lart sjansen-treo |
| 21:33.51 | sjansen-treo | good to see you too maquis |
| 21:34.17 | harleypig | Does anyone know of a site (or sites) for sql design patterns? |
| 21:34.55 | maquis | sjansen-treo: :) |
| 21:55.01 | *** join/#utah {-} (n=sjansen@h46068ae5.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 21:58.57 | hans | ~lart {-} |
| 21:59.08 | hans | ~seen ibot |
| 21:59.13 | ibot | ibot <~von@byu176783wks.rn.byu.edu> was last seen on IRC in channel #utah, 333d 21h 23m 45s ago, saying: '800 inches is approximately 2400 barleycorns'. |
| 22:00.32 | {-} | ~seen TimRiker |
| 22:00.34 | ibot | timriker <n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker> was last seen on IRC in channel #elinux, 3d 8h 24m 49s ago, saying: 'moin all'. |
| 22:03.17 | harleypig | ~seen squat |
| 22:03.18 | ibot | i haven't seen 'squat', harleypig |
| 22:03.30 | harleypig | ~seen buggerall |
| 22:03.31 | ibot | i haven't seen 'buggerall', harleypig |
| 22:03.35 | harleypig | heh |
| 22:03.51 | harleypig | the things that amuse you when you're avoiding work |
| 22:07.51 | harleypig | should be? |
| 22:09.15 | harleypig | Man ... anyone have any ideas for better keywords? Google isn't helping with 'flattened', 'hierarchy', and 'sql'. I'm tying to create a database with a flattened hierarchy (categories) that can have arbitrary number of levels. |
| 22:09.40 | {-} | shouldn't |
| 22:09.59 | harleypig | ? |
| 22:10.00 | harleypig | Oh. |
| 22:10.03 | {-} | sql tree |
| 22:10.31 | maquis | {-}: why are you working today? |
| 22:10.52 | {-} | I found a pretty good description of storing tree data in relational db once. Basically, there's two approaches, each with its own downside. |
| 22:10.52 | {-} | setting up a classroom for tomorrow |
| 22:11.12 | harleypig | Have to make money. |
| 22:11.22 | harleypig | When you have 6 kids, any extra money is a blessing. |
| 22:11.37 | {-} | woke up at stinking 4am to catch a 6:30am flight that was cancelled, delayed two hours until another flight, but got the pittsburgh at the original time |
| 22:11.49 | {-} | wish delta had shown the later route to begin with |
| 22:11.51 | harleypig | {-}: Do you have a link to that info or would you be willing to expound on it here? or msg? |
| 22:12.06 | harleypig | You in pitt now? |
| 22:12.29 | harleypig | I spent the worst 6 months of my life there and the best 2 years. :> |
| 22:13.08 | hans | {-}: you can get cool tux dolls with P on their chest in the airport convenience stores |
| 22:13.08 | {-} | I don't and can't, sorry. |
| 22:13.22 | hans | in pittsburgh |
| 22:13.40 | harleypig | s'allright ... you're at work. :> |
| 22:13.53 | harleypig | Why would someone pay for a stuffed doll that had been pee'd on? |
| 22:13.57 | {-} | no, it's that I can't remember |
| 22:14.11 | {-} | is that a trick question? |
| 22:14.38 | {-} | hans: really?! |
| 22:14.41 | harleypig | :> sql tree gives me links that look helpful. At least I'm getting somewhere now. Thanks. |
| 22:14.42 | hans | p is for pittsburgh, and that's enough for me |
| 22:14.46 | hans | yeah, the hockey team iirc |
| 22:15.08 | hans | their normal logo is a much meaner-looking penguin, but when I went through it looked like someone had rebranded a bunch of tux dolls |
| 22:15.37 | harleypig | Yeah ... don't mess with the Penguins or the Steelers ... dissin' either will get you a snootfull. |
| 22:16.16 | hans | {-}: it's odd, I just spend several hours looking in detail at what CMU is doing in computer music |
| 22:16.16 | *** join/#utah vex (i=nwood@stutter.prohosting.com) |
| 22:16.26 | harleypig | Some member asked me what my favorite team was the week Dallas was playing the Steelers ... nearly got my teeth knocked in. |
| 22:16.33 | hans | and what do you know, {-} is hanging out just a few miles from CMU now. psychidelic |
| 22:16.37 | harleypig | :D |
| 22:16.39 | hans | ~spell psychedelic |
| 22:17.02 | hans | ~spell ibot_ |
| 22:17.58 | RyanE | {-}: did you get your car fixed? |
| 22:18.55 | xbmodder | ~slashdot |
| 22:21.47 | {-} | RyanE: nope |
| 22:22.27 | {-} | It's dead in the parking lot at my apartment complex. I've tried jumping it a couple times with no luck. Looks like I'll be having it towed when I get back. |
| 22:22.56 | RyanE | {-}: Battery, then? |
| 22:23.19 | {-} | Probably not. If it were the battery, I should have been able to jump start it. |
| 22:23.40 | RyanE | do electrical items still work when you try to start it then/ |
| 22:23.41 | RyanE | ? |
| 22:23.52 | {-} | Nope. |
| 22:24.16 | {-} | Which is why I thought it might be battery. Now I'm suspecting more (expensive) complex electical problems. |
| 22:24.21 | RyanE | It's possible that the battery could fail in a partial short, in which case you wouldn't be able to jump it. |
| 22:24.52 | {-} | Well... after hooking up the cables electrical comes up. But then I turn the key and everything goes off. |
| 22:25.22 | {-} | And my stereo bugs out like it's getting pulses of electricity instead of a steady flow. |
| 22:25.35 | RyanE | just all the time? |
| 22:25.57 | {-} | Not sure I understand the question. |
| 22:26.09 | RyanE | so you say getting pulses, you mean any time the car is running? |
| 22:26.13 | RyanE | or just when you try to start it? |
| 22:26.39 | {-} | After I hook up the jumper cables. |
| 22:26.50 | {-} | After I turn the key and try to start it. |
| 22:27.02 | {-} | When I stop trying, my stereo bugs out. |
| 22:27.31 | RyanE | when your car was running after jump starting it the last time, was the radio / etc. OK? |
| 22:28.01 | {-} | it was |
| 22:29.55 | {-} | The first time I jumped it that afternoon, everything worked. I shut off my lights and stereo to hopefully charge the battery faster. |
| 22:30.07 | RyanE | I'd still bet battery. |
| 22:30.14 | {-} | Drove for a while. Parked the car. Came back about and hour and a half later and it started on the first try. |
| 22:30.31 | RyanE | battery should act like a large capacitor and smooth out power. You shouldn't see pulses if your battery is OK. |
| 22:30.38 | RyanE | but I'm not really a car guy, unfortunately. |
| 22:30.48 | {-} | Got hope. Stopeed the car. Try to start it again just to see if it would. It's been dead since then. |
| 22:30.56 | RyanE | Of course, I bet battery anyway, because you can replace it yourself, and they're pretty cheap. |
| 22:31.06 | {-} | s/Got hope/Got home/ |
| 22:31.40 | {-} | I hope you're right. |
| 22:32.47 | RyanE | good luck with it. Toyotas run forever, so I'd bet against 'complex electrical problems'. |
| 22:32.59 | RyanE | party prep time. later. |
| 22:35.42 | harleypig | {-}: Thanks for the 'tree' keyword ... found a lot of perl modules that help me understand. Incredibly simple concept. |
| 22:36.25 | {-} | harleypig: I'll send you my bill. |
| 22:36.40 | harleypig | Here's my $.02. :> |
| 22:37.48 | {-} | Actually, I was thinking that as a punitive measure for working on a holiday, and in light of the amount of time it would have probably taken you to arrive at the same result, I'm going to demand everything you earn today plus a donut tomorrow morning. |
| 22:37.52 | {-} | Cream filled. |
| 22:39.01 | maquis | me wants a donut |
| 22:39.23 | harleypig | I'll send my kids over. |
| 22:39.27 | harleypig | all of them. |
| 22:39.55 | {-} | Cool. Slaves. Are they hard workers? |
| 22:41.24 | harleypig | They work hard ... at avoiding work, driving you crazy, asking the same thing repeatedly like "Why?" and "Why not?" and "<whine>That's not fair</whine>" |
| 22:42.38 | {-} | I'm not sure I'm in particular need of such services at the moment. |
| 22:42.56 | {-} | How are they at house cleaning? Washing and waxing a car? Cooking? |
| 22:45.07 | maquis | mmm cooking |
| 22:45.12 | maquis | topher's a good cook |
| 22:45.23 | harleypig | They're good at making it necessary to clean house. They'll play a hose over your car and make sure there is sand in your sponge. My oldest knows how to cook Ramen. |
| 22:45.39 | harleypig | Well ... really, how to make it into a paste by cooking it too long. |
| 22:45.45 | maquis | harleypig: how old? |
| 22:45.50 | harleypig | 11 |
| 22:46.09 | harleypig | My youngest 3 enjoy making scrambled eggs ... |
| 22:46.14 | harleypig | they just do it on the floor ... |
| 22:46.17 | harleypig | with their feet. |
| 22:46.37 | maquis | harleypig: i was curious about how old all of them are |
| 22:46.53 | harleypig | Oh. 11 9 8 6 4 2 |
| 22:47.08 | maquis | wow |
| 22:47.10 | maquis | that's a lot |
| 22:47.16 | maquis | and moderately evenly spaced |
| 22:47.30 | harleypig | :] We're not even halfway there either. |
| 22:54.06 | {-} | starting a football team? |
| 22:56.04 | harleypig | Yeah ... need at least 22. |
| 22:56.29 | harleypig | I don't think I'm gonna break gramps' record, but I'd sure like to try. :> |
| 22:57.12 | harleypig | Although, I guess I'm not gonna be able to get even close in the wife department. Unless things change radically in the next few years. |
| 22:57.30 | harleypig | Or, I could apostasize. |
| 22:57.33 | harleypig | err ... |
| 22:57.38 | harleypig | ibot, spell apostisize |
| 22:57.49 | harleypig | yeah, that one. |
| 22:58.18 | harleypig | I could start my own splinter group. |
| 23:02.48 | {-} | ~lart SUSE |
| 23:03.22 | {-} | I want to update my work email filters, but I can't because Novell released a patched version of PHP that segfaults. |
| 23:07.11 | hans | ~lart suse for fun |
| 23:44.04 | *** join/#utah {-} (n=sjansen@216.170.107.170) |
| 23:54.38 | {-} | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:56.04 | harleypig | They cater more toward the hourly visitor? |
| 23:58.55 | findlay | harleypig is starting his own group of splinters? |
| 23:59.23 | harleypig | Yeah ... We're gonna play CounterStrike all the time |