irclog2html for #utah on 20050829

`00:05.09`	`levi`	`goozbach: I used to visit my aunt and uncle in Anaheim, and we'd watch Disneyland fireworks from their upstairs windows every night.`
`00:33.14`	`goozbach`	`now THIS is a resturant!`
`00:34.34`	`goozbach`	`leather recliner, your choice of 13 different screens with sports playing`
`00:35.21`	`goozbach`	`and the main screen 20' or so across`
`01:06.38`	`goozbach`	`where is eceryone?`
`01:28.50`	`dataw0lf-`	`working`
`01:35.32`	`dataw0lf-`	`I haven't been to Disneyland forever.`
`01:36.12`	`goozbach`	`it'ss too bad i'm here on business`
`01:39.53`	`dataw0lf-`	`can't make any time for a quick visit?`
`01:42.19`	`goozbach`	`i can... but how fun would it be going alone`
`01:43.03`	`dataw0lf-`	`I guess you got a point.`
`01:53.21`	`*** join/#utah Maquis (n=Maquis@71-36-83-231.slkc.qwest.net)`
`01:53.25`	`Maquis`	`help`
`01:53.47`	`Maquis`	`i'm trying to get apache2 and php4 set up so i can run some programs on my computer`
`01:54.19`	`dataw0lf-`	`and..?`
`01:54.27`	`Maquis`	`they weren't working, so i tried to apt-get remove --purge them, so i could start over from scratch, but someone it's not purging them completely`
`01:54.43`	`Maquis`	`i still have /etc/init.d/apache2 and /etc/apache2/*`
`01:55.02`	`Maquis`	`but if i move those to a different location, it doesn't reinstall them when i apt-get install them`
`01:55.50`	`Maquis`	`so i'm either not understanding what i'm doing or something's going wrong`
`01:55.50`	`dataw0lf-`	`do a dpkg -C`
`01:56.26`	`Maquis`	`it didn't report anything`
`01:56.58`	`dataw0lf-`	`dpkg -L <package>`
`01:57.06`	`dataw0lf-`	`after apt-get --purge`
`01:57.31`	`Maquis`	"Package `apache2' is not installed."
`01:59.25`	`dataw0lf-`	`well, I have to watch this episode of the Sopranos, but I'll be on in an hour if you still need help.`
`01:59.32`	`Maquis`	`:(`
`01:59.46`	`levi`	`You could always use apache 1.`
`02:00.02`	`hans`	`Maquis: what files are misbehaving?`
`02:00.07`	`hans`	`what exactly are you trying to do?`
`02:00.08`	`Maquis`	`levi: i want to use apache2... that's what i'm using on my other boxes`
`02:00.14`	`tensai`	`Maquis: /etc/apache2 and /etc/init.d/apache2 are part of apache2-common`
`02:00.25`	`Maquis`	`hans: something went wrong, so i'm trying to fix it`
`02:00.30`	`hans`	`dpkg -S filename`
`02:00.34`	`Maquis`	`tensai: i'll try pulling that out`
`02:00.35`	`hans`	`will tell you what package something belongs too`
`02:00.57`	`tensai`	`dpkg --purge --force-all libc6`
`02:00.58`	`levi`	`Maquis: You'll find that debian often packages a piece of software into multiple packages to allow for multiple configurations.`
`02:00.59`	`hans`	`Maquis: or delete the offending files and do apt-get install --reinstall apache2-common`
`02:01.13`	`hans`	`~lart tensai`
`02:01.25`	`Maquis`	`it`
`02:01.26`	`Maquis`	`thanks`
`02:02.13`	`tensai`	`"Good Debian", "Nice Debian", "You wouldn't hurt a guy with glasses, would you Debian?"`
`02:02.21`	`hans`	`a new distro is like a new marriage. you have to get used to eachother`
`02:02.24`	`hans`	`or roommates`
`02:02.31`	`hans`	`or brand of corn flakes`
`02:02.40`	`levi`	`It's definitely a different approach than gentoo.`
`02:03.58`	`hans`	`linux.meetup.com - should I bother with a group that uses this site?`
`02:04.16`	`levi`	`I went to a blogger meetup thing a few times.`
`02:04.30`	`levi`	`The meetup.com part of it was pretty unobtrusive.`
`02:05.00`	`Maquis`	`hmmmmmmmm`
`02:05.12`	`Maquis`	`so, i installed php, then apache2, then apache-common`
`02:05.22`	`Maquis`	`and now i don't have /etc/init.d/apache2`
`02:05.48`	`hans`	`levi: so the bloggers were intrusive? ;-)`
`02:06.08`	`levi`	`hans: Well, they were the ones I interacted with.`
`02:06.39`	`hans`	`fugalh@falcon:~$ dpkg -S /etc/init.d/apache2`
`02:06.40`	`hans`	`apache2-common: /etc/init.d/apache2`
`02:07.10`	`Maquis`	`apache2-common?`
`02:07.12`	`Maquis`	`grrr`
`02:07.18`	`tene_`	`yay!`
`02:07.55`	`levi`	`Maquis: apache-common would give you /etc/init.d/apache`
`02:07.59`	`Maquis`	`[osiris /root] apt-get install apache2-common`
`02:07.59`	`Maquis`	`Reading Package Lists... Done`
`02:07.59`	`Maquis`	`Building Dependency Tree... Done`
`02:07.59`	`Maquis`	`apache2-common is already the newest version.`
`02:07.59`	`Maquis`	`0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 205 not upgraded.`
`02:08.11`	`Maquis`	`levi: but it didn't give me /etc/init.d/apache`
`02:08.15`	`Maquis`	`it didn't give me anything`
`02:08.27`	`levi`	`dpkg -L it.`
`02:08.42`	`levi`	`That'll list what it did give you.`
`02:09.21`	`Maquis`	`levi: it claims that it's there`
`02:10.07`	`levi`	`Maquis: Did you rm it at some point?`
`02:10.21`	`Maquis`	`levi: not since apt-get installing it`
`02:10.59`	`levi`	`Maquis: Try removing and resinstalling the package.`
`02:11.07`	`Maquis`	`levi: just did that`
`02:11.09`	`Maquis`	`crossing fingers`
`02:11.48`	`Maquis`	`it's still claiming that localhost doesn't exist`
`02:11.57`	`Maquis`	`but /etc/init.d/apache2 exists now`
`02:11.57`	`tene_`	`of course`
`02:12.00`	`tene_`	`how intuitive.`
`02:12.02`	`tene_`	`What is?`
`02:12.43`	`levi`	`Maquis: Is localhost in /etc/hosts?`
`02:13.03`	`Maquis`	`levi: i haven't put it there, but localhost was working fine until i tried to get php working`
`02:13.19`	`Maquis`	`yes... it is in /etc/hosts`
`02:13.40`	`levi`	`What's telling you localhost doesn't exist?`
`02:13.47`	`Maquis`	`my browser`
`02:13.55`	`tene_`	`o.O`
`02:14.01`	`tene_`	`clarify "doesn't exist"?`
`02:14.10`	`Maquis`	`well... connection was refused when attempting to contact localhost`
`02:14.12`	`tene_`	`is apache running?`
`02:14.20`	`Maquis`	`tene: not sure`
`02:14.27`	`tene_`	`/etc/init.d/apache2 status`
`02:14.27`	`Maquis`	`i tell it to start, and it doesn't give any errors`
`02:14.40`	`Maquis`	`tene: doesn't print anything out`
`02:14.50`	`levi`	`Maquis: I think you need to edit the config files.`
`02:14.53`	`tene_`	`nothing at all? Spooky.`
`02:14.53`	`levi`	`For apache2.`
`02:19.14`	`Maquis`	`levi: even if it's not edited, shouldn't it still tell me something about its status?`
`02:19.30`	`levi`	`Maquis: Look at ps to see if it's running.`
`02:19.53`	`Maquis`	`levi: no apache and no httpd`
`02:20.15`	`levi`	`Maquis: Start apache2 by hand and see what happens.`
`02:20.24`	`tene_`	`Maquis: check /var/log/apache/error_log`
`02:20.25`	`Maquis`	`wait...`
`02:20.48`	`Maquis`	`i just stuck a bunch of random stuff in the apache2.conf file to see if it would tell me anything when i tried to start, and it's still not saying anything`
`02:20.56`	`Maquis`	`just silently returning me to a new prompt`
`02:21.28`	`Maquis`	`tene_: i'm tailing the log now, and trying to start, and nothing's showing up`
`02:21.38`	`Maquis`	`the error.log is completely empty`
`02:21.49`	`tene_`	`spooooky`
`02:21.54`	`tene_`	`what about starting by hand?`
`02:22.09`	`Maquis`	`just run apache2?`
`02:22.18`	`Maquis`	`or what?`
`02:22.49`	`tensai`	`Maquis: how about /var/log/apache2/?`
`02:23.03`	`Maquis`	`tensai: that's where i was looking`
`02:23.11`	`Maquis`	`there were two log files, error.log and access.log...`
`02:23.13`	`Maquis`	`both were empty`
`02:23.20`	`tene_`	`run whatever apache binary you can fin`
`02:23.23`	`tene_`	`find, even`
`02:23.34`	`tensai`	`did you install an mpm package?`
`02:24.06`	`Maquis`	`hmmmm`
`02:24.08`	`Maquis`	`that's interesting`
`02:24.25`	`levi`	`Try /usr/sbin/apache2`
`02:24.34`	`Maquis`	`levi: that's an interesting one`
`02:24.49`	`Maquis`	`locate sees it, but when i try to run it, it tells me that there's no such file or directory`
`02:25.01`	`tensai`	`if the init script doesn't say it started, that usually means the init script bailed out because of a config option or a missing binary`
`02:25.03`	`Maquis`	`and it's right`
`02:25.09`	`Maquis`	`because when i ls the dir, it doesn't exist there`
`02:25.10`	`tensai`	`locate only updates every night`
`02:25.24`	`Maquis`	`tensai: i updated it earlier today, but not exceptionally recently`
`02:25.45`	`Maquis`	`although, i'm guessing i probably want /usr/sbin/apache2?`
`02:26.24`	`Maquis`	`ok`
`02:26.43`	`hans`	`Maquis: I've seen some packages that won't start unless enabled in /etc/default/...`
`02:26.52`	`Maquis`	`i did apt-get install --reinstall apache2 and now i've got /usr/sbin/apache2`
`02:26.59`	`hans`	`I don't think apache2 was one of them, but i could be wrong there`
`02:27.08`	`Maquis`	`ha!~`
`02:27.20`	`hans`	`~!ah`
`02:27.32`	`Maquis`	`reinstalling apache2 at least gets me something when i try to start apache`
`02:27.40`	`Maquis`	`it's finding the error i deliberately introduced into the apache2 conf`
`02:28.23`	`Maquis`	`so, now i'm back to where i was when i started this all`
`02:28.39`	`Maquis`	`localhost works, but when i try to go to a php page, it tries to download it instead of running it`
`02:28.52`	`tene_`	`yay!`
`02:29.27`	`levi`	`Maquis: That's an apache configuration issue.`
`02:29.55`	`Maquis`	`levi: i had changed the config so that it was doing everything it was supposed to`
`02:30.10`	`Maquis`	`and it still wasn't working, so i googled and someone said you have to install everything in the right order`
`02:30.14`	`Maquis`	`or something to that effect`
`02:30.20`	`tene_`	`that's... stupid`
`02:31.16`	`Maquis`	`tene_: maybe, but i was feeling desperate`
`02:31.22`	`Maquis`	`so i broke everything`
`02:31.55`	`Maquis`	`GAH!!!!`
`02:32.17`	`Maquis`	`why is it installing libphp4.so into /usr/lib/apache/1.3/ instead of /usr/lib/apache2/modules?`
`02:32.31`	`tene_`	`Maquis:`
`02:32.38`	`levi`	`Maquis: Probably because you installed the apache one instead of the apache2 one.`
`02:32.39`	`tene_`	`maybe libabache2-mod-php4 ?`
`02:32.52`	`Maquis`	`levi: how do i tell it which one i want?`
`02:33.12`	`Maquis`	`hmmm`
`02:33.15`	`Maquis`	`tene_'s right`
`02:33.17`	`levi`	`Use libapache2 instead of libapache`
`02:33.19`	`tene_`	`yay!`
`02:33.37`	`hans`	`what the...`
`02:33.50`	`Maquis`	`hans: ???`
`02:34.02`	`hans`	`since I was looking over the LUG situation here in spring, the Mesilla Valley LUG has resurrected and become impressive. that's like weird`
`02:34.07`	`hans`	`it was way dead`
`02:34.23`	`hans`	`now they're doing crazy things like plotting linux users in the area with google maps`
`02:34.41`	`levi`	`Heh.`
`02:34.50`	`levi`	`Those crazy lugs.`
`02:35.21`	`hans`	`well at least I don't have to organize one. :)`
`02:36.20`	`Maquis`	`gah`
`02:36.54`	`Maquis`	`so, it's not saying anything when i try to start apache with /etc/init.d/apache2 start`
`02:36.56`	`tene_`	`Maquis: omg install $otherdistro! It Just Works!`
`02:37.08`	`Maquis`	`when i try to stop, it says that stopping it failed`
`02:37.12`	`Maquis`	`but when i ps, it doesn't exist`
`02:37.25`	`Maquis`	`so, i tried doing it manually from /usr/sbin/`
`02:37.30`	`levi`	`Maquis: So, see what happens when you try to start it by hand.`
`02:37.40`	`Maquis`	`and that didn't give me any output, and it still doesn't have anything in ps`
`02:37.52`	`Maquis`	`and i've been tailing the error log the whole time and nothing's showed up there at all`
`02:40.53`	`Maquis`	`ok`
`02:40.57`	`Maquis`	`i fixed that`
`02:41.01`	`Maquis`	`now it's giving:`
`02:41.07`	`Maquis`	`[osiris /root] /etc/init.d/apache2 start`
`02:41.07`	`Maquis`	`Starting web server: Apache2[Mon Aug 29 00:12:48 2005] [warn] module php4_module is already loaded, skipping`
`02:41.13`	`Maquis`	`which looks great`
`02:41.18`	`hans`	`heh. they're talking about where to meet on the list archives, and Hooters was suggested`
`02:41.27`	`Maquis`	`but then, when i try to go to a php page, it still wants to download the file`
`02:41.31`	`levi`	`hans: You ain't in Utah anymore. :)`
`02:41.45`	`hans`	`and quite popular, it looks like. but at least one didn't like it, and someone with sense said any women that are/will be in the group might be uncomfortable`
`02:42.14`	`levi`	`Maquis: You can fix that in the config file, I'm sure.`
`02:42.24`	`Maquis`	`levi: i'm loading libphp4.so`
`02:42.31`	`levi`	`Maquis: That's not the problem.`
`02:42.33`	`Maquis`	`and that's the only php file that i was loading over on my gentoo box`
`02:42.38`	`Maquis`	`levi: then, what is?`
`02:42.43`	`levi`	`I have to remember.`
`02:42.51`	`Maquis`	`i'm telling it that it should use php for .php, .phtml files`
`02:44.20`	`hans`	`your computer thinks it's 00:14?`
`02:44.27`	`hans`	`or apache saysis?`
`02:44.29`	`Maquis`	`hans: i ran date again`
`02:44.33`	`Maquis`	`and fixed it`
`02:44.39`	`Maquis`	`but i fixed it yesterday with date`
`02:44.41`	`hans`	`ntp is your friend`
`02:44.45`	`Maquis`	`which is kinda worrisome`
`02:45.01`	`hans`	`has it rebooted since? date doesn't set the hwclock`
`02:45.09`	`Maquis`	`hans: yeah it has`
`02:45.14`	`Maquis`	`how do i set the hwclock?`
`02:45.14`	`hans`	`man hwclock`
`02:46.24`	`Maquis`	`ok`
`02:46.40`	`Maquis`	`that's done`
`02:47.06`	`Maquis`	`anyway, i just need to figure out why apache wants me to download php files`
`02:47.34`	`Maquis`	`i'm looking at my apache2.conf from my gentoo box, and i don't see many differences`
`02:47.57`	`Maquis`	`(well, i see a lot of differences, but not any that appear to be related to this)`
`02:48.38`	`hans`	`ooh ooh`
`02:48.38`	`hans`	`I had this problem too`
`02:49.05`	`hans`	`hmm. I can't remember`
`02:49.13`	`hans`	`and it was only a couple of weeks ago. I'm getting worse`
`02:49.33`	`hans`	`oh, now I remember. it was a straightforward fix and firefox was caching it`
`02:49.43`	`hans`	`so you might have fixed it and your browser is ruining your life.`
`02:50.08`	`Maquis`	`GRRRRR`
`02:50.12`	`Maquis`	`~lart firefox`
`02:50.22`	`Maquis`	`ok`
`02:50.29`	`Maquis`	`now i just have a set of php errors to fix.....`
`02:50.48`	`hans`	`firefox was the culprit eh? glad I could save you the extra hour it took me to find that`
`02:51.01`	`Maquis`	`sniff`
`02:51.10`	`Maquis`	`thanks hans and levi`
`02:51.49`	`*** join/#utah vex (i=nwood@stutter.prohosting.com)`
`02:52.56`	`hans`	`so nmsu is pretty cool so far. at least academically`
`02:53.06`	`hans`	`my profs actually use linux`
`02:53.36`	`hans`	`and my first hw in my OS class is to do some kernel code reading`
`02:54.04`	`mheath`	`hans, what kind of OS class?`
`02:56.34`	`hans`	`Operating Systems II`
`02:56.37`	`hans`	`(grad level)`
`02:56.46`	`dataw0lf-`	`man, the Sopranos is just an amazing show.`
`02:57.02`	`hans`	`basically, we're covering the linux way for the first half and then getting into more esoteric/theoretical stuff in the second half`
`02:57.37`	`dataw0lf-`	`hans: what type of kernel code is he having you look at it to begin with?`
`02:58.00`	`dataw0lf-`	`CS graduate school is where I'd actually want to study CS.`
`02:58.17`	`mheath`	`hans, do you by chance use any of Tannenbaums books?`
`02:58.30`	`mheath`	`I know they used to be the standard for college level OS classes, don't know if they are anymore`
`02:59.55`	`dataw0lf-`	`Comer, probably.`
`03:00.48`	`hans`	`mheath: our text is "Understanding the Linux Kernel" :) Later we'll be reading some papers too`
`03:01.00`	`Maquis`	`hans: that sounds cool`
`03:01.09`	`hans`	`the prof says he hasn't found an OS text he likes, so we're sticking with source/paper pretty much`
`03:01.36`	`bigdog_ut`	`tannenbaums is one of my favorite`
`03:01.54`	`hans`	`dataw0lf-: we have to find where the GDT is set up during boot. So basically I have to understand how the kernel bootstraps itself`
`03:02.12`	`hans`	`(yes, a lot of that is assembly)`
`03:02.55`	`hans`	`http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer/classes/574/sem/f05/hw/index.php`
`03:04.04`	`dataw0lf-`	`hans: that's some fun stuff.`
`03:04.22`	`dataw0lf-`	`what assembler do they have you using? gas?`
`03:04.59`	`hans`	`well we're not writing any assembly, just reading`
`03:05.04`	`dataw0lf-`	`http://dataw0lf.org <-- any comments on the new site design?`
`03:05.16`	`mheath`	`bah, today turned out horrible`
`03:05.18`	`dataw0lf-`	`hans: cool.`
`03:05.24`	`hans`	`not enough wolves.`
`03:05.41`	`hans`	`the text looks too nice, compared to the graphic`
`03:05.48`	`dataw0lf-`	`heh`
`03:05.50`	`hans`	`nice as in harmless teddy bears.`
`03:06.07`	`dataw0lf-`	`it's 'w0lves' sir. You are missing my 1337ness.`
`03:06.12`	`dataw0lf-`	`;)`
`03:06.53`	`hans`	`heh`
`03:06.58`	`mheath`	`=P\`
`03:07.35`	`dataw0lf-`	`mheath: well, if I hadn't turned off my work computer when I left yesterday, and if I wasn't in the process of disassembling my workstation, leaving me with my little lappy, I'd have more to post this weekend.`
`03:11.51`	`dataw0lf-`	`unless the CMOS battery in my work box is powering a tiny hardware based ssh server that will somehow in turn be able to access one of the scsi hard drives. Lemme take a look!`
`03:14.21`	`goozbach`	`"you haven't eaten your second dinner. and you're reading books... WORD books... what's wrong?"`
`03:15.28`	`hans`	`what's the mileage rate the IRS uses? 37 cents a mile?`
`03:16.23`	`goozbach`	`orange zest`
`03:16.24`	`hans`	`oh, 40.5 this year`
`03:17.31`	`dataw0lf-`	`hans: mmmm writing off gas?`
`03:18.19`	`dataw0lf-`	`hans: and you don't like my image?`
`03:19.29`	`mheath`	`We really need "Designed for Linux" stickers...`
`03:19.35`	`goozbach`	`my hands hurt`
`03:19.42`	`goozbach`	`mheath: they're out there`
`03:19.53`	`mheath`	`Or better yet, "Works with any operating system" stickers.`
`03:20.20`	`dataw0lf-`	`I have a "designed for Linux sticker' on my laptop.`
`03:20.24`	`mheath`	`goozbach, I mean a major centralized effort. Official standards on what qualifies for it, and give them out for cheap/free so vendors have no reason to NOT use them`
`03:20.36`	`dataw0lf-`	`as well as a DefCon, Black Hat, Python, Debian, and anti-Bush sticker.`
`03:20.41`	`dataw0lf-`	`:)`
`03:20.47`	`mheath`	`on systems, on software, on individual retail packaged hardware components.`
`03:20.53`	`Maquis`	`mheath: "works with any operating system" might not make sense for many computers that we run linux on`
`03:21.01`	`Maquis`	`a lot of them don't work "nicely" with linux`
`03:21.19`	`dataw0lf-`	`some of the machines I have Linux on couldn't run XP on them.`
`03:21.25`	`mheath`	`Maquis, then those systems shouldn't have it, because they wouldn't qualify.`
`03:21.58`	`dataw0lf-`	`and I don't think my laptop could run HP-UX or Tru64 without a huge amount of trouble.`
`03:22.13`	`dataw0lf-`	`And I think you're putting too much importance on stickers. ;)`
`03:22.32`	`dataw0lf-`	`I'd rather advocate more vendors actually OFFERING Linux.`
`03:22.41`	`Maquis`	`goozbach: was that lemon-zest comment in response to my ttempts to get the sticky stuff off?`
`03:22.45`	`dataw0lf-`	`and I don't think the problems lies with some sticker.`
`03:22.56`	`mheath`	`dataw0lf, I'm talking mainly about "Made for Linux" or "Made for any operating system" labels for software and retail packaged hardware`
`03:22.59`	`dataw0lf-`	`Maquis: orange zest, I think.`
`03:23.07`	`Maquis`	`dataw0lf-: i agree... but they really shouldn't make the stickers this hard to take off`
`03:23.17`	`dataw0lf-`	`Maquis: now that's a point I can get behind, hehe.`
`03:23.19`	`Maquis`	`dataw0lf-: same diff`
`03:23.30`	`dataw0lf-`	`Maquis: pshaw, orange juice is way better than lemon juice.`
`03:24.49`	`dataw0lf-`	`Maquis: ever fix your apache2 btw?`
`03:25.01`	`Maquis`	`dataw0lf-: yes.. finally`
`03:25.22`	`dataw0lf-`	`Maquis: what was it? different package than 'apache2' ?`
`03:25.31`	`Maquis`	`dataw0lf-: there were a lot of problems`
`03:25.47`	`dataw0lf-`	`Maquis: first time using Debian?`
`03:25.54`	`goozbach`	`Maquis: yup`
`03:26.00`	`dataw0lf-`	`Debian Uber Alles!`
`03:26.12`	`Maquis`	`dataw0lf-: yup first time using debian`
`03:28.16`	`dataw0lf-`	`Maquis: it'll grow on you ;)`
`03:28.31`	`dataw0lf-`	`Debian is the cure for the common gentoo.`
`03:28.40`	`Maquis`	`haha`
`03:28.49`	`dataw0lf-`	`;)`
`03:29.10`	`Maquis`	`once i get settled in debian, i'm going to go on "the search" on my other laptop to try out some other distros i've never tried`
`03:29.20`	`dataw0lf-`	`hehe.`
`03:29.28`	`Maquis`	`once i've tried a couple distros, i can figure out which one is best for me`
`03:29.39`	`dataw0lf-`	`that's definitely the best way to do it.`
`03:29.45`	`dataw0lf-`	`tried Ubuntu?`
`03:30.10`	`dataw0lf-`	`it's definitely well suited for laptops.`
`03:30.17`	`mheath`	`I wish I had the time to work on my distro..`
`03:30.22`	`Maquis`	`i've been sticking with one at a time because i didn't want to give up my backups or my primary computer to experiment with distros`
`03:30.42`	`Maquis`	`dataw0lf-: i haven't tried it yet... i made the livecd for someone who needed a livecd, but i haven't done anything with it myself`
`03:30.44`	`goozbach`	`"you couldn't predict six o'clock at 5:30"`
`03:30.53`	`Maquis`	`????`
`03:31.09`	`mheath`	`Maquis, make sure Slackware is on your list :)`
`03:31.16`	`Maquis`	`mheath: it is`
`03:31.21`	`Maquis`	`i actually already downloaded the isos`
`03:31.33`	`dataw0lf-`	`Maquis: cool.`
`03:31.41`	`dataw0lf-`	`mheath: Slackware? heh.`
`03:32.30`	`Maquis`	`one i have to try is the sorcererlinux or whatever it's called`
`03:32.35`	`Maquis`	`the one where you cast spells and such`
`03:32.43`	`Maquis`	`that one just sounds fun`
`03:33.56`	`dataw0lf-`	`yeah, sorceror linux actually makes gentoo fun ;)`
`03:34.03`	`dataw0lf-`	`it's definitely cool.`
`03:34.30`	`dataw0lf-`	`I've been pretty rock steady with Debian for almost a decade now though. That's crazy.`
`03:34.38`	`Maquis`	`that's cool`
`03:35.00`	`mheath`	`Debian seems to be the FSFs choice of GNU/Linux Software Distributions`
`03:35.01`	`Maquis`	`i heard about linux for the first time about 3 years ago...`
`03:35.07`	`Maquis`	`started using it about 2 months later`
`03:35.19`	`mheath`	`And the only really well working version of GNU is based on Debian`
`03:35.23`	`Maquis`	`i've done rh8, fc1, gentoo, and now debian`
`03:35.43`	`dataw0lf-`	`I used Slackware for a year, then went Purdue with my parents, and got a CD with 'bo' on it.`
`03:35.54`	`dataw0lf-`	`(Debian 1.3, iirc)`
`03:36.04`	`dataw0lf-`	`installed just about every flavor of Linux.`
`03:36.16`	`Maquis`	`i installed mandrake for a friend once`
`03:36.32`	`Maquis`	`i've installed most of the rh/fc line for people`
`03:36.40`	`Maquis`	`and i tried to install ubuntu for someone once`
`03:36.40`	`dataw0lf-`	`Yeah.`
`03:36.45`	`dataw0lf-`	`I was pretty unimpressed with FC.`
`03:36.51`	`dataw0lf-`	`although FC3 was pretty impressive.`
`03:36.56`	`Maquis`	`sjansen had to take over and finish things because there were a ton of problems and i didn't know what to do`
`03:37.29`	`dataw0lf-`	`huh.`
`03:37.56`	`dataw0lf-`	`I'm quite active in the Ubuntu community and with the developers, and Ubuntu has far less installation problems than any other distro I've worked with, in my experience.`
`03:37.56`	`Maquis`	`mandrake 10 had some sort of weird problem i remember... the default sound-driver was incompatible with something else`
`03:38.07`	`Maquis`	`so when you booted, it would start screaming loudly...`
`03:38.14`	`dataw0lf-`	`heh.`
`03:38.16`	`dataw0lf-`	`never a good sign.`
`03:38.31`	`mheath`	`I've never had installation problems with Slackware...`
`03:38.36`	`Maquis`	`dataw0lf-: if i remember correctly, the reason we were using ubuntu on this machine was because fc and mandrake wouldn't go on`
`03:39.28`	`hans`	`blame them on sjansen, that's always a good bet`
`03:40.00`	`hans`	`dataw0lf-: trying to figure out if flying is big-picture cheaper than driving`
`03:40.12`	`hans`	`and I don't mind your image, but I think the font doesn't fit it`
`03:40.22`	`hans`	`reminds me of Tim Burton stuff`
`03:40.23`	`dataw0lf-`	`hans: ah, cool, suggestions would be more than welcome.`
`03:40.40`	`dataw0lf-`	`yeah, I have a friend who does alot of that sorta stuff and he hooks me up with various images.`
`03:40.44`	`hans`	`look for something that Tim Burton used or would use. :)`
`03:40.55`	`dataw0lf-`	`hehe.`
`03:41.59`	`dataw0lf-`	`http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?find=lastposter&t=54342 there's my favorite image by him.`
`03:42.43`	`dataw0lf-`	`oh, here's a question: is 23 early twenties or mid twenties? I'm having an argument with my Mom on the phone about which I am.`
`03:43.36`	`levi`	`dataw0lf: You're an OLD MAN, dude.`
`03:43.39`	`hans`	`late teens`
`03:44.07`	`dataw0lf-`	`I'm early twenties, sir.`
`03:46.00`	`dataw0lf-`	`levi: mrawr. I feel like it sometimes. I've been through alot relative to me young age.`
`03:47.15`	`levi`	`Of course, that makes me, at nearly 29, positively ancient.`
`03:47.49`	`dataw0lf-`	`well.`
`03:49.30`	`dataw0lf-`	`I've been in combat, broken all my ribs puncturing a lung and being helevaced out of the Grand Tetons, hitch hiked across country with a bunch of hippies, etc`
`03:49.41`	`dataw0lf-`	`so I've like, aged 2 years for every 1 year it seems like sometimes.`
`03:49.45`	`dataw0lf-`	`but I'm still immature!`
`03:49.46`	`dataw0lf-`	`;)`
`03:52.31`	`*** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@12.22.7.2)`
`03:52.43`	`Maquis`	`~lart emcnabb`
`03:53.10`	`Maquis`	`ummm`
`03:53.17`	`Maquis`	`is pg the command for postgresql?`
`03:53.22`	`dataw0lf-`	`psql`
`03:53.27`	`Maquis`	`dataw0lf-: thanks`
`03:53.30`	`dataw0lf-`	`np`
`03:54.04`	`levi`	`Maquis: Good for you. :)`
`03:54.39`	`dataw0lf-`	`very good :)`
`03:54.48`	`dataw0lf-`	`Maquis: remember to su to postgres and use the 'createuser' command`
`03:55.03`	`Maquis`	`dataw0lf-: when i su to postgres is there a password i need?`
`03:55.11`	`dataw0lf-`	`Not if you su as root ;)`
`03:55.21`	`Maquis`	`ah...right`
`03:56.28`	`Maquis`	`why is there an option to have the password unencrypted`
`03:56.29`	`Maquis`	`?`
`03:57.38`	`goozbach`	`Maquis: different auth mechinsums`
`03:58.06`	`dataw0lf-`	`hehe`
`03:58.07`	`Maquis`	`???`
`03:58.16`	`goozbach`	`er sums`
`03:59.06`	`goozbach`	`I should see if there's an irssi extension for spelling`
`03:59.16`	`dataw0lf-`	`Maquis: goozbach is in California, he's getting a contact high from all the potheads.`
`03:59.24`	`Maquis`	`ah... right`
`04:00.02`	`goozbach`	`uhhh, I got the munchies`
`04:00.02`	`Maquis`	`is berkeley anywhere near anaheim? (/me has enough trouble with utah geography to not bother with california geography)`
`04:00.22`	`dataw0lf-`	`goozbach: hehe`
`04:00.25`	`dataw0lf-`	`Maquis: no, not really.`
`04:00.28`	`goozbach`	`oh great!!! another meme`
`04:00.54`	`goozbach`	`hopefullly it's not as pronounced as far as "can you hear me now?"`
`04:01.27`	`Maquis`	`HEY! why is psql being stupid?`
`04:02.39`	`goozbach`	`Maquis: psql isn't really a respector of persons`
`04:02.47`	`Maquis`	`~lart goozbach`
`04:03.00`	`goozbach`	`he was my best friend!!!!!`
`04:03.15`	`goozbach`	`the mean man with the burrito`
`04:03.20`	`Maquis`	`i create a user and set the password`
`04:03.36`	`Maquis`	`then i go to log in, and it tells me that the authentication for that user is failing`
`04:03.44`	`Maquis`	`i gave it the same password`
`04:04.24`	`Maquis`	`and is the command "create database <dbname>"?`
`04:04.56`	`Maquis`	`[osiris /root] psql --username=horde -W`
`04:04.57`	`goozbach`	`you usually want to rund that commaned as the specified user`
`04:05.01`	`Maquis`	`that's right, right?`
`04:05.14`	`Maquis`	`to log in`
`04:05.22`	`Maquis`	`goozbach: i want to create the db after i get in, yes`
`04:05.28`	`Maquis`	`but i'm trying to get in, and it won't let me`
`04:05.44`	`Maquis`	`[osiris /root] psql --username=horde -W 2`
`04:05.44`	`Maquis`	`Password:`
`04:05.44`	`Maquis`	`psql: FATAL: IDENT authentication failed for user "horde"`
`04:06.23`	`bigdog_ut`	`psql -h localhost -u horde -W`
`04:06.41`	`bigdog_ut`	`or psql -h localhost -u horde -W template1`
`04:06.55`	`bigdog_ut`	`if that does not work then you need to check your pg_hba.conf file`
`04:07.29`	`Maquis`	`[osiris /root] psql -h localhost -u horde -W 2`
`04:07.29`	`Maquis`	`psql: Warning: The -u option is deprecated. Use -U.`
`04:07.29`	`Maquis`	`User name: horde`
`04:07.29`	`Maquis`	`Password:`
`04:07.29`	`Maquis`	`psql: FATAL: database "horde" does not exist`
`04:07.30`	`bigdog_ut`	`or check your password?`
`04:07.31`	`Maquis`	`[osiris /root] psql -h localhost -U horde -W 2`
`04:07.34`	`Maquis`	`Password:`
`04:07.36`	`Maquis`	`psql: FATAL: database "horde" does not exist`
`04:07.43`	`dataw0lf-`	`You guys you guys.`
`04:07.51`	`dataw0lf-`	`Maquis: /etc/postgresql/pg_hba.conf`
`04:07.52`	`Maquis`	`the password is working now, but it's telling me that the database doesn't exist`
`04:07.55`	`Maquis`	`which i already know`
`04:07.58`	`dataw0lf-`	`ensure that you have allowances there.`
`04:08.00`	`bigdog_ut`	`add template1 at the end`
`04:08.20`	`bigdog_ut`	`template1 is the default db`
`04:08.31`	`Maquis`	`ok...`
`04:08.33`	`Maquis`	`bigdog_ut: that worked`
`04:08.39`	`Maquis`	`now... i just need to create the db`
`04:08.48`	`bigdog_ut`	`yes`
`04:09.34`	`dataw0lf-`	`use /usr/bin/createdb my friend.`
`04:10.29`	`*** join/#utah brailsmt (n=michael@pcp03935020pcs.sthind01.mo.comcast.net)`
`04:10.32`	`bigdog_ut`	`or you can create it when you log into the db...it is all the same`
`04:10.57`	`Maquis`	`bigdog_ut: i thought i had gotten it when i was in, but it still says it doesn't exist`
`04:11.06`	`Maquis`	`dataw0lf-: i tried that, but it's rejecting my password over there`
`04:11.09`	`Maquis`	`oh..`
`04:11.10`	`Maquis`	`nm`
`04:11.11`	`bigdog_ut`	`gotten what?`
`04:11.13`	`Maquis`	`i need to give -h`
`04:11.21`	`Maquis`	`bigdog_ut: i thought i had created the db`
`04:11.23`	`Maquis`	`but it didn't work`
`04:11.36`	`bigdog_ut`	`how did you try to create it?`
`04:11.46`	`Maquis`	`forgot the ;`
`04:12.17`	`bigdog_ut`	`what ever...gi joe`
`04:12.51`	`dataw0lf-`	`is that supposed to be an insult?`
`04:12.55`	`dataw0lf-`	`you ricer fruitcake?`
`04:13.04`	`bigdog_ut`	`lol`
`04:13.14`	`bigdog_ut`	`its good to read your comments`
`04:14.11`	`dataw0lf-`	`bigdog_ut: seen the new site design?`
`04:14.19`	`dataw0lf-`	`I need some input.`
`04:14.20`	`bigdog_ut`	`yes`
`04:14.22`	`dataw0lf-`	`it's missing.. something.`
`04:14.38`	`bigdog_ut`	`input -> quit changing it every month`
`04:14.54`	`dataw0lf-`	`this is the final version.`
`04:14.58`	`levi`	`dataw0lf: I think the font needs some style to it, too.`
`04:15.03`	`dataw0lf-`	`all those others were my foray into CSS/HTML mastery.`
`04:15.25`	`dataw0lf-`	`levi: Yeah, but I need a font that works cross browser for everyone, and I'm not big on creating images for everything.`
`04:15.41`	`dataw0lf-`	`bigdog_ut: http://aliscot.com/bigdog/`
`04:15.50`	`levi`	`You could use a css image-replacement technique.`
`04:16.28`	`bigdog_ut`	`dataw0lf-, that is my site`
`04:16.29`	`dataw0lf-`	`see, I still don't dig that`
`04:16.59`	`levi`	`Why not?`
`04:17.20`	`levi`	`Typeface is an integral part of graphic design.`
`04:17.56`	`levi`	`Standard web fonts are great for readability, but they're rather bland.`
`04:17.56`	`dataw0lf-`	`<- not a graphical designer.`
`04:18.20`	`levi`	`Not a professional graphical designer, obviously, but you're trying to do graphic design.`
`04:19.33`	`dataw0lf-`	`I've already done the snazzy web site design, I'm just looking for some basic layout pointers, I'm not really concerned with inserting images into my design.`
`04:19.52`	`dataw0lf-`	`I mean.. I guess I could do it. But, meh.`
`04:20.28`	`levi`	`You are inserting images of text whether you like it or not. The question is whether they'll fit the theme of your design or not.`
`04:20.43`	`levi`	`(and whether they're pre-rendered or rendered on the fly)`
`04:21.02`	`dataw0lf-`	`mrawr.`
`04:21.05`	`dataw0lf-`	`ok, you've convinced me.`
`04:21.07`	`dataw0lf-`	`eine moment.`
`04:22.07`	`levi`	`Also, your image reminds me of work by Designers Republic, especially stuff they did for PWEI, so you may want to look at that for typeface inspiration.`
`04:22.42`	`dataw0lf-`	`I got a typeface`
`04:29.36`	`goozbach`	`I think that in the room next to me someone is having sex`
`04:29.55`	`bigdog_ut`	`goozbach, i think you should go investigate`
`04:30.00`	`levi`	`goozbach: People do that sometimes.`
`04:30.06`	`goozbach`	`sounds like tha headboard is hitting the wall on a regualr inteveral`
`04:30.21`	`levi`	`goozbach: Well, at least you can't hear other evidence.`
`04:30.56`	`goozbach`	`usually one cannot hear anything`
`04:31.10`	`bigdog_ut`	`goozbach, i say, cook some popcorn and go get some entertainment`
`04:31.59`	`levi`	`goozbach: In a nice hotel, that's true. In crappy cheap hotels, not so much.`
`04:32.50`	`*** join/#utah tene_ (n=tene@c-67-182-199-40.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)`
`04:38.21`	`Maquis`	`@#$@#%@#%@#%@$%#`
`04:38.38`	`levi`	`Maquis: Watch your tongue!`
`04:38.40`	`levi`	`G'night!`
`04:39.21`	`hans`	`Maquis: yeah, some of those symbols are sharp and might cut it`
`04:39.57`	`Maquis`	`hans: thanks`
`04:44.58`	`bigdog_ut`	`Maquis, did you get the db created?`
`04:52.27`	`xbmodder`	`hey`
`04:52.35`	`Maquis`	`bigdog_ut: yeah`
`04:52.41`	`Maquis`	`but then i messed something else up`
`04:53.02`	`dataw0lf-`	`hans / bigdog_ut / levi: whaddya think? http://dataw0lf.org`
`04:54.41`	`mrpull_`	`dataw0lf-: I'd suggest the text be black to match the graphic`
`04:55.38`	`dataw0lf-`	`mrpull_: eh, I'm going with that color throughout the website, actually.`
`04:56.41`	`dataw0lf-`	`mrpull_: debated whether to make it black or not.`
`04:57.04`	`dataw0lf-`	`mrpull_: ever checked out this site? http://colormixers.com/mixers/cmr/`
`04:57.16`	`dataw0lf-`	`it makes me kinda feel like a designer ;)`
`04:58.10`	`dataw0lf-`	`hans: recognize the font? ;)`
`04:58.16`	`xbmodder`	`Must get job`
`04:58.42`	`dataw0lf-`	`I need to find all my presentations. I have absolutely no idea where any of them are.`
`04:59.02`	`dataw0lf-`	`bigdog_ut: you wouldn't happen to have a copy of that Intro to Python presentation I did, would you?`
`04:59.26`	`xbmodder`	`what programming language is that in?`
`04:59.48`	`xbmodder`	`Even a stupid californian 14 year old guy can use python.`
`05:00.30`	`mrpull_`	`dataw0lf-: I haven't seen colormixers... it's pretty dope`
`05:01.33`	`mrpull_`	`dataw0lf-: My problem is i'm boring. I like grey, black, and white :)`
`05:05.57`	`*** join/#utah mheath (n=mheath@c-67-161-213-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)`
`05:07.57`	`xbmodder`	`mheath, yo`
`05:08.01`	`dataw0lf-`	`mrpull_: which isn't a bad thing.`
`05:08.11`	`dataw0lf-`	`mrpull_: I like subtle colors, definitely.`
`05:08.25`	`dataw0lf-`	`mrpull_: wait, you work at xmission?`
`05:08.32`	`goozbach`	`I'm so glad /i'm not in the southeast`
`05:08.34`	`mrpull_`	`nah... I buy dsl from them :)`
`05:09.09`	`dataw0lf-`	`mrpull_: ah, cool.`
`05:09.27`	`xbmodder`	`goozbach, sup?`
`05:09.32`	`dataw0lf-`	`mrpull_: I'm neighbors with Chris over there (LD) that's why I asked.`
`05:09.53`	`goozbach`	`just getting settled in so california`
`05:10.05`	`mrpull_`	`xmission is dope. i've had some sort of account with them for about 10 years`
`05:10.24`	`xbmodder`	`goozbach, california is betta!`
`05:10.38`	`xbmodder`	`any advice for the first day of high school guys?`
`05:10.47`	`dataw0lf-`	`mrpull_: yeah, I was a customer for about a year after I moved here, but my new place can't get dsl. And I'm neighbors with an XMission system administrator. Go figure.`
`05:11.14`	`dataw0lf-`	`xbmodder: Don't get a swirley.`
`05:11.19`	`xbmodder`	`http://www.remaxescarpment.net/Agents/agent.asp?Agent=DerekCarter < looks a bit creepy`
`05:11.23`	`xbmodder`	`dataw0lf, not planning to`
`05:11.40`	`xbmodder`	`dataw0lf, my IBM laptop battery functions as a weapon`
`05:11.46`	`mrpull_`	`xbmodder: Dont tell anyone you were on #utah past your bedtime`
`05:11.52`	`dataw0lf-`	`hehe`
`05:11.58`	`goozbach`	`don't piss off any bullies`
`05:12.13`	`goozbach`	`and don't piss on an electric fence`
`05:12.36`	`xbmodder`	`mrpull_, not bed time yet :)`
`05:13.16`	`dataw0lf-`	`goozbach: words to live by.`
`05:13.21`	`dataw0lf-`	`God, I loved high school.`
`05:13.35`	`dataw0lf-`	`xbmodder: Enjoy it. It's the greatest 4 years of your life.`
`05:14.03`	`mrpull_`	`xbmodder: my advice... go to school, learn something, prepare for college`
`05:14.24`	`mrpull_`	`dont skip class (like i did)`
`05:14.26`	`xbmodder`	`two opposites`
`05:15.12`	`dataw0lf-`	`you can enjoy school and still do great.`
`05:15.35`	`dataw0lf-`	`I managed to maintain a 3.8 GPA with an excessive amount of alcohol and marijuana use throughout high school shrug`
`05:16.40`	`xbmodder`	`I've hated school from the start to the end but the journey is more important than the end or the start And what it meant to me will eventually be a memory of a time when I tried so hard`
`05:16.44`	`xbmodder`	`dataw0lf, cool.`
`05:16.49`	`xbmodder`	`dataw0lf, how'd you do it?`
`05:17.02`	`xbmodder`	`alcohol maybe. marijuana no.`
`05:17.09`	`dataw0lf-`	`I'm not recommending it.`
`05:17.12`	`xbmodder`	`lol`
`05:17.28`	`xbmodder`	`why not?`
`05:17.36`	`xbmodder`	`well yeah I see why`
`05:17.44`	`dataw0lf-`	`I'm just saying, I was able to get through school fine and participate in extracurricular activies (football, boxing) while still having fun.`
`05:18.25`	`dataw0lf-`	`mrpull_: I guess this is Utah, but in most of the rest of the country, alot of high school kids do drink and smoke weed.`
`05:18.34`	`dataw0lf-`	`;)`
`05:19.03`	`xbmodder`	`yeah`
`05:19.25`	`xbmodder`	`pretty much like every 3rd person here has been drunk`
`05:19.32`	`mrpull_`	`dataw0lf-: I'd argue that my friends that avoided drugs are better off now`
`05:20.14`	`mheath`	`<xbmodder> alcohol maybe. marijuana no.`
`05:20.16`	`dataw0lf-`	`mrpull_: I saw some kids get screwed up by drugs. But I saw the same amount manage to succeed because you have to have some level of self control.`
`05:20.31`	`mheath`	`Ladies and gentelman, I give you the result of the junior high drugs-are-bad-for-you class!`
`05:20.40`	`mrpull_`	`to each his own... but i'd say wait till you are older to make a decision about drugs/alchohol`
`05:20.58`	`mheath`	`Marijuana is soooooooo bad for you, but alcohol is a thing that can be used responsibly!`
`05:21.02`	`dataw0lf-`	`mrpull_: And I'd agree. But that's ignoring the hard reality that most kids will try it at their age.`
`05:21.04`	`xbmodder`	`mheath, cannibis stays in your system`
`05:21.09`	`xbmodder`	`alcohol does not.`
`05:21.19`	`dataw0lf-`	`A valid argument.`
`05:21.38`	`xbmodder`	`but only 11, 12`
`05:21.40`	`xbmodder`	`grade`
`05:21.46`	`dataw0lf-`	`But if you smoke a joint it won't show up after about three or four days. But that's largely dependent on your body's metabolism and body fat percentage.`
`05:22.07`	`dataw0lf-`	`mheath: arguing which one is worse is irrelevant. Anything done to excess is bad.`
`05:22.14`	`mrpull_`	`both impair your judgment and cause people to do stupid stuff`
`05:22.20`	`xbmodder`	`dataw0lf, some tests can get a month`
`05:22.29`	`xbmodder`	`mrpull_, I do enough stupid stuff`
`05:22.33`	`dataw0lf-`	`xbmodder: a hair test.`
`05:22.46`	`dataw0lf-`	`xbmodder: and/or urinalysis IF they've been using regularly.`
`05:22.59`	`xbmodder`	`hair test`
`05:23.02`	`mheath`	`dataw0lf, I know, I just find it funny that todays "good" youth regard weed as being so horrible while alcohol is 100% OK as long as you don't DUI and your not an alcoholic`
`05:23.05`	`xbmodder`	`ouch`
`05:23.16`	`dataw0lf-`	`mheath: It's not just the youth.`
`05:23.19`	`xbmodder`	`good youth?`
`05:23.53`	`mrpull_`	`gentlemen, it is past this old man's bedtime`
`05:24.02`	`mrpull_`	`good night... make good choices!`
`05:24.12`	`xbmodder`	`will do`
`05:24.34`	`dataw0lf-`	`mrpull_: good night.`
`05:24.34`	`xbmodder`	`After years of pain staking research by the world's`
`05:24.35`	`xbmodder`	`Leading sound scientists, we here at the sound`
`05:24.35`	`xbmodder`	`Institute have invented a reliable audio weapons system.`
`05:24.35`	`xbmodder`	`Actual movement of musical sound in space used to`
`05:24.35`	`xbmodder`	`Carefully attack and neutralize the cellular structure of`
`05:24.35`	`xbmodder`	`The human body, so the question must be asked`
`05:24.50`	`xbmodder`	`who would know a rock artist would write suck a thing?`
`05:24.55`	`dataw0lf-`	`watch the pasting, xbmodder, please.`
`05:25.04`	`xbmodder`	`will do`
`05:25.10`	`xbmodder`	`!seen joshc`
`05:25.20`	`xbmodder`	`~seen joshc`
`05:25.27`	`ibot`	`joshc <i=joshc@208.187.239.18> was last seen on IRC in channel #utah, 10d 12h 14m 3s ago, saying: ' ttyl'.`
`05:25.27`	`mheath`	`dataw0lf, And it bugs me that xbmodder here, for one, considers trying alcohol to be OK, while trying weed is bad`
`05:25.33`	`xbmodder`	`grm`
`05:25.45`	`dataw0lf-`	`mheath: get used to it. It's national propaganda.`
`05:25.50`	`xbmodder`	`mheath, well alcohol is not really a drug.`
`05:25.57`	`dataw0lf-`	`xbmodder: Yeah. It is.`
`05:26.05`	`xbmodder`	`mheath, I know alcohol won't permently fuck me up`
`05:26.07`	`dataw0lf-`	`And that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard anyone say.`
`05:26.10`	`mheath`	`When many teens die from alcohol related incidents, whereas I don't think you could find a single person who's ever died from weed alone.`
`05:26.11`	`dataw0lf-`	`xbmodder: language.`
`05:26.12`	`Supaplex`	`ibot needs an index in the database :) slow $*@$ buggar`
`05:26.16`	`mheath`	`*while many teens..`
`05:26.30`	`dataw0lf-`	`xbmodder: sure it will.`
`05:26.31`	`xbmodder`	`dataw0lf, we couldn't sue`
`05:26.37`	`mheath`	`xbmodder, what makes you think weed will permanently mess you up?`
`05:26.49`	`xbmodder`	`dataw0lf, true :-/ alcohol might mess me up perm.`
`05:26.56`	`dataw0lf-`	`so what are you talking about?`
`05:26.58`	`dataw0lf-`	`bah`
`05:27.27`	`xbmodder`	`dataw0lf, but we couldn't sue because in our lease agreement we said 'no drugs' they had alcohol`
`05:27.28`	`Supaplex`	`anyone that wishes to continue using such things will come up with all manner of apparently plausable reasons to justify their further use.`
`05:27.47`	`xbmodder`	`and I have tasted a bit of Alcohol before.`
`05:27.56`	`dataw0lf-`	`Supaplex: and anyone who can't tax it will look for a multitude of reasons to demonize it.`
`05:28.13`	`xbmodder`	`The only problem is I don't wanna have any young`
`05:28.24`	`mheath`	`I just wish that people were taught about responsible drug use more`
`05:28.25`	`xbmodder`	`So I will prolly wait until some time in college`
`05:28.30`	`xbmodder`	`but noway to anything else`
`05:28.37`	`xbmodder`	`mheath, there is too much junk`
`05:28.44`	`mheath`	`Just saying "Don't do it" doesn't accomplish much.`
`05:29.00`	`xbmodder`	`mheath, half the officers are like "tell me who smokes weed here so I can bust'em"`
`05:29.22`	`xbmodder`	`mheath, And when I am like when a person is in deep crap`
`05:29.31`	`xbmodder`	`mheath, and they are "addicted"`
`05:29.36`	`xbmodder`	`mheath, then what?`
`05:29.47`	`xbmodder`	`mheath, and he is like go to rehab for them`
`05:32.30`	`dataw0lf-`	`Supaplex: and, further, I don't use marijuana anymore. I'm just arguing from the stance of HAVING used it, that it isn't so terrible. However, anything can be bad when done to excess.`
`05:32.54`	`dataw0lf-`	`which is what people should be opposing, rather than the simple experimentation that I recommend everyone should do.`
`05:40.23`	`xbmodder`	`but I hate cannibis`
`05:41.04`	`xbmodder`	`the only happiness thing I think is "safe" is alcohol`
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`11:40.29`	`*** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, uphpu.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com. See planetutah.adelantellc.com for aggregate feed`
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`14:11.27`	`xbmodder`	`?`
`14:11.33`	`graphyx`	`!`
`14:11.43`	`xbmodder`	`#`
`14:12.42`	`graphyx`	`$`
`14:13.22`	`xbmodder`	`%`
`14:15.18`	`graphyx`	`42`
`14:17.22`	`xbmodder`	`w00t`
`14:17.27`	`dataw0lf`	`and just when you thought the internet couldn't get any more annoying...`
`14:17.45`	`xbmodder`	`lol mheath: I made another 3.22 dollars per stock`
`14:17.46`	`xbmodder`	`lol`
`14:17.57`	`levi`	`dataw0lf: I think the site looks better with the new typeface.`
`14:18.09`	`levi`	`It is indeed Tim Burton-esque!`
`14:18.33`	`xbmodder`	`93.38`
`14:18.37`	`xbmodder`	`wow`
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`14:19.02`	`xbmodder`	`I enjoy making money without my clothes on..`
`14:19.03`	`graphyx`	`is etrade the cheapest place to get an account for stock trading?`
`14:19.07`	`xbmodder`	`erm -- that sounded wierd`
`14:19.11`	`graphyx`	`many people do..`
`14:19.18`	`xbmodder`	`graphyx, no we just heard alotta good things about etrade`
`14:19.32`	`levi`	`xbmodder: Sounds like there's a bright future for you in the field of male prostitution!`
`14:19.36`	`xbmodder`	`I earned 50 cents for taking a shower :)`
`14:22.48`	`dataw0lf`	`levi: think so? thanks.`
`14:23.56`	`levi`	`dataw0lf: I think it could still use a little something, but I'm not sure what that something would be, exactly.`
`14:25.43`	`dataw0lf`	`levi: aye, me too.`
`14:26.18`	`levi`	`Maybe something to tie the color of the text and the image together.`
`14:26.53`	`dataw0lf`	`hmmm`
`14:29.55`	`dataw0lf`	`levi: what about that?`
`14:31.16`	`dataw0lf`	`ooh, wait`
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`14:37.02`	`levi`	`Ew, sewage backup in Provo thanks to a dead dog stuffed in a manhole. That's just gross.`
`14:37.16`	`dataw0lf`	`meh`
`14:38.36`	`graphyx`	`In other news koreans protested the wasting of food on suburban streets.`
`14:40.16`	`hans_`	`jsmith: so far nufone as my home phone is working pretty well`
`14:40.25`	`hans_`	`unfortunately I don't get names for CID`
`14:40.28`	`hans_`	`just numbers`
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`14:45.56`	`hans`	`~lart emcnabb`
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`14:46.10`	`hans`	`ibot, real prompt`
`14:46.30`	`graphyx`	`wow...`
`14:46.38`	`graphyx`	`that's was quite the hang time...`
`14:48.03`	`dataw0lf`	`it's called a 'net split'`
`14:48.34`	`graphyx`	`I meant the ibot thing.`
`14:48.40`	`graphyx`	`I am familiar with netsplits.`
`14:53.04`	`levi`	`It's hard to be unfamiliar with netsplits around here.`
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`15:10.52`	`levi`	`Gah.`
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`15:19.35`	`Jayce^`	`now that's a split`
`15:29.33`	`bonez39`	`how do I setup my current working apache....so that ssl is integrated with it?`
`15:30.02`	`tene_`	`clarify "integrated"?`
`15:30.04`	`bonez39`	`I connect to a couple databases on my linux machine at work here...but my apache is not setup to allow https: connections...it refuses to connect if I attempt with https:`
`15:30.12`	`tene_`	`ahh`
`15:30.18`	`swami`	`sjansen: You left me on all weekend?`
`15:30.20`	`bonez39`	`tene: I'd like it to run ssl when I connect..and for now, it does not`
`15:30.32`	`graphyx`	`It is intergrated. Try googling for setting up ssl on apache.`
`15:30.36`	`graphyx`	`It's there.`
`15:30.43`	`graphyx`	`not too bad to do either.`
`15:30.48`	`tene_`	`/etc/httpd/conf.d/ssl.conf`
`15:31.33`	`tene_`	`Just Works for me.`
`15:31.41`	`tene_`	`dunno what crazy distro you're running.`
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`15:55.31`	`graphyx`	`nothing like netsplits to discourage any chatting in the channels..`
`15:56.14`	`Bradipo`	`I wonder if gnunet chat would be less susceptible to this kind of thing.`
`15:56.33`	`graphyx`	`or google jabber talk.`
`15:57.05`	`Bradipo`	`Ack no, I want anonymity.`
`15:57.23`	`Bradipo`	`If I have to change at least change for something better. :-)`
`15:57.49`	`graphyx`	`that way when you put your foot in it you can dissapear?`
`15:57.56`	`Bradipo`	`No.`
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`16:23.45`	`hans`	`netsplits here are boring`
`16:23.54`	`hans`	`they usually have minimal impact`
`16:24.19`	`hans`	`back in the good ol' days we used to surf netsplits, talk to yourself with 45 second plus delay, really throw some minds wiggy`
`16:25.05`	`dataw0lf`	`awwww jea`
`16:25.39`	`graphyx`	`uphill both ways, eh?`
`16:32.13`	`dataw0lf`	`man.`
`16:45.31`	`levi`	`hans: How are classes going?`
`16:54.30`	`graphyx`	`Ok What is the most efficient way of getting off of spamcops blacklist?`
`16:55.18`	`levi`	`Not getting on in the first place.`
`16:56.25`	`jsmith`	`graphyx: Sacrifice...`
`16:57.13`	`dataw0lf`	`bribery?`
`16:57.35`	`graphyx`	`The interesting this is this: I just checked out spamcop and they say we aren't listed in the BL.`
`16:57.47`	`graphyx`	`But the returned email says blacklisted by bl.spamcop.net`
`16:57.49`	`graphyx`	`same ip.`
`16:58.00`	`*** part/#utah swami (n=swami@class1-nat.gurulabs.com)`
`16:58.06`	`levi`	`Perhaps you're already off, and the data hasn't propagated yet?`
`16:58.25`	`graphyx`	`perhaps.`
`17:23.32`	`tensai`	`yuck, spamcop. I can't count how many times they've ruined my day. It's like they try to be as difficult as possible.`
`17:28.09`	`scott_`	`if you guys were going to buy a new laptop which would you get?`
`17:28.44`	`Jayce^`	`power/ibook`
`17:30.51`	`tensai`	`the new portable s/390 looks pretty nice`
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`17:33.10`	`lars-ut`	`~emulate Gaz`
`17:33.14`	`ibot`	`The rightful order has been restored.`
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`17:46.18`	`vontrapp`	`i'd go for the power book if i had the money and could convince myself i really don't need more than 1024x768`
`17:46.31`	`vontrapp`	`which i can't`
`17:46.34`	`vontrapp`	`oh well`
`17:47.23`	`vontrapp`	`i am incredibly happy with my 1920x1200 and can't imagine having less`
`17:47.31`	`vontrapp`	`but to each his own`
`17:47.57`	`vontrapp`	`~picnic`
`17:47.58`	`levi`	`I got used to 1024x768, but then I never used 1920x1200 on a laptop.`
`17:48.51`	`scott_`	`vontrapp: what laptop then?`
`17:49.03`	`vontrapp`	`scott_: hp pavillion zv5000`
`17:49.12`	`vontrapp`	`so a button broke on my phone`
`17:49.22`	`vontrapp`	`i go into a nextel store to see if they can fix it`
`17:49.35`	`vontrapp`	`there's a girl in there with a pulverized phone in a plastic bag`
`17:49.42`	`vontrapp`	`she's getting a new phone`
`17:49.58`	`vontrapp`	`the store says they're not a service center and sends me somewhere else`
`17:50.15`	`levi`	`vontrapp: So, get a hammer. :)`
`17:50.42`	`levi`	`The girl has obviously learned how the system works.`
`17:50.59`	`vontrapp`	`does it cross my mind to get the buttons from the pulverized phone? exact same model, which i noticed when i walked in, but nooo, it doesn't cross my mind till i'm halfway gone down state street`
`17:51.03`	`vontrapp`	`STUPID`
`17:51.19`	`vontrapp`	`levi: i don't know that the replacment was free :-/`
`17:51.41`	`vontrapp`	`but, i can take the button that's broken out and put it in by myself with no tools`
`17:51.47`	`vontrapp`	`if i had just gotten it from her`
`17:52.08`	`levi`	`Maybe if you camp out at the store, you can catch someone else with a pulverized phone.`
`17:52.09`	`vontrapp`	`i will forever regret that lack of intelligence at that moment`
`17:53.07`	`levi`	`Now, now; I think that's a bit of an exaggeration!`
`17:53.26`	`levi`	`Certainly at some point you will forget about the situation, and then you will no longer regret it.`
`17:53.47`	`vontrapp`	`ok, i will for the rest of the day regret it`
`17:54.05`	`graphyx`	`I am sure you will regret that moment until after you get a new phone.`
`17:54.13`	`graphyx`	`and quite possibly for a while thereafter..`
`17:54.17`	`graphyx`	`but not much longer.`
`17:54.33`	`vontrapp`	`it's like the father in pride and prejudice says, "I probably don't feel as bad as I should, and will likely be over it sooner than I should be"`
`17:54.37`	`vontrapp`	`or something to that effect`
`17:55.22`	`levi`	`Unless you have an unlimited capacity for regret (in which case I pity you!), you will certainly find other things to regret before too long, and this minor regret will be pushed out of your mind.`
`17:56.22`	`levi`	`I'm not sure quoting "Pride and Prejudice" is compatible with maintaining geek credibility.`
`17:57.03`	`vontrapp`	`um, not even if it's _not_ the new mormon flick, but the old one?`
`17:57.42`	`levi`	`The miniseries?`
`17:58.20`	`vontrapp`	`yes, that one`
`17:58.20`	`levi`	`The miniseries has been co-opted by mormon women, so it might as well be the same.`
`17:59.05`	`vontrapp`	`well, it's five hours of a poor father dealing with the most impossible women imaginable`
`17:59.22`	`vontrapp`	`i don't see why women like it so much`
`17:59.27`	`graphyx`	`I've only seen the new mormon one... but after that who would be tempted to watch the old one.`
`17:59.38`	`vontrapp`	`they're nothing alike`
`17:59.51`	`graphyx`	`I am sure..`
`18:00.02`	`graphyx`	`But what in that movie would say, "the book is entirely different..."`
`18:00.14`	`vontrapp`	`not that i'm saying you would like the old one, you probably wouldn't`
`18:00.17`	`levi`	`There's an older black and white one with Sir Lawrence Olivier that might be acceptible due to its shorter length and its relative rarity in the libraries of young mormon women.`
`18:00.45`	`vontrapp`	`lol`
`18:01.27`	`vontrapp`	`btw, that's "poor father" as in pittied, not financially distrought`
`18:01.28`	`levi`	`Still, anything Jane Austen-related is pushing it!`
`18:02.29`	`levi`	`My excuse for having all this Austen-related knowledge is that I'm married and my wife watches all of the above with alarming frequency.`
`18:03.15`	`levi`	`And now it's time for lunch!`
`18:17.45`	`*** join/#utah spr (n=spr@128.187.245.97)`
`18:18.24`	`graphyx`	`so levi are you stating that you are a "poor" husband to be pitied?`
`18:22.20`	`*** join/#utah Maquis (n=Maquis@128.187.255.254)`
`18:24.03`	`hans`	`eventually to be a poor father to be pitied`
`18:24.09`	`hans`	`levi: they're going pretty well`
`18:24.27`	`hans`	`not enough homework yet. I'm still about a week ahead`
`18:24.39`	`hans`	`Maquis: how many copies of pride and prejudice do you own?`
`18:24.54`	`hans`	`(any format)`
`18:31.10`	`Maquis`	`hans: none`
`18:31.16`	`Maquis`	`why?`
`18:31.25`	`hans`	`oh, just curious. :-)`
`18:31.31`	`Maquis`	`my mom has the videos, dvds and book...`
`18:31.46`	`Maquis`	`she tried to get me to watch them with her once...`
`18:31.55`	`Maquis`	`i might've lasted about 5 minutes?`
`18:33.01`	`Maquis`	`hans: that reminds me of when i played "Battle of the Sexes" with some kids from my ward a year ago`
`18:33.44`	`Maquis`	`it was a fun game until the guys told me i couldn't play anymore...`
`18:39.23`	`hans`	`heh`
`18:39.40`	`hans`	`we just witnessed a discussion about p&p, and a threat to revoke the geek card`
`18:40.55`	`Maquis`	`haha`
`18:41.05`	`Maquis`	`i get to keep my geek card! :)`
`18:41.14`	`hans`	`check out the ibot archives tomorrow`
`18:41.26`	`Maquis`	`honestly, the 5 minutes i saw were kinda boring, in my opinion`
`18:41.37`	`hans`	`ok, so /. sucked me in on the gtalk article`
`18:41.55`	`hans`	`looks like google is writing its own jabber (er, xmpp) server and they just haven't implemented s2s yet`
`18:42.14`	`hans`	`along with a bunch of other stuff`
`18:42.16`	`hans`	`http://www.saint-andre.com/blog/2005-08.html#2005-08-24T22:17`
`18:45.24`	`Maquis`	`so, one of the guys from my freshman ward just got back his summer and has decided to do CS`
`18:45.35`	`Maquis`	`he's kinda scared, though because he's never programmed before`
`18:45.50`	`hans`	`so why did he decide on CS?`
`18:45.57`	`Maquis`	`he thinks it sounds fun`
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`18:46.16`	`hans`	`well good for him. I guess he'll find out if it really is fun for him after taking 142`
`18:46.48`	`hans`	`one of my friends took 142 thinking it was like computer graphics`
`18:47.00`	`Maquis`	`he's taking 142 and 124 this semester... i told him not not to panic, and to see how he likes it`
`18:47.00`	`hans`	`she failed. but she loved it and took it again and changed her major`
`18:47.14`	`Maquis`	`hans: that's cool`
`18:47.42`	`Maquis`	`it's a hard class for people who go in cold`
`18:53.51`	`graphyx`	`I loved 142.`
`18:53.54`	`graphyx`	`It was a cool class.`
`18:54.01`	`Maquis`	`graphyx: i enjoyed it too`
`18:54.35`	`Maquis`	`but i know that a lot of people who go in with no experience have really bad experiences with it...`
`18:54.45`	`graphyx`	`I really a really awesome visiting professor.`
`18:54.49`	`graphyx`	`still friends with him.`
`18:54.55`	`graphyx`	`And made a friend for life in the class as well.`
`19:04.28`	`graphyx`	`drink a glass of water from the opposite rim of the glass.`
`19:04.53`	`graphyx`	`Though to be honest that one is much more fun if you can view the person attempting it.`
`19:05.14`	`Maquis`	`~lart graphyx`
`19:08.39`	`vontrapp`	`that one has never failed for me`
`19:08.51`	`vontrapp`	`even if it does look silly`
`19:09.03`	`graphyx`	`It works for me as well.`
`19:09.28`	`graphyx`	`seems to clear the other side of the esophagus where drinking straight up doesn't.`
`19:15.17`	`levi`	`I don't know much about 142, because I never actually went to the classroom.`
`19:16.18`	`levi`	`Well, I went for the first class period, but I left after about 10 minutes.`
`19:16.46`	`levi`	`(the professor said we could leave if we were already familiar with computers)`
`19:18.08`	`levi`	`Well, I didn't know how to do /everything/, as evidenced by my repeated failure of various classes.`
`19:18.28`	`Maquis`	`levi: you knew how to do everything in 142, though`
`19:19.10`	`levi`	`Well, not everything. I had to look some stuff up in the textbook on occasion to do the homework, and sometimes on the tests (which were open book) as well.`
`19:19.12`	`Maquis`	`http://www.ipodlinux.org/blog/?p=18`
`19:21.22`	`levi`	`Nifty.`
`19:22.04`	`tene`	`So... this application uses a templating system.`
`19:22.20`	`tene`	`And it includes a resource file that sets variables to the template to use.`
`19:22.25`	`levi`	`I think, if all my classes were structured in the way CS142 was, I could have passed a lot of them the same way. That is, after all, how independant study courses work.`
`19:22.42`	`tene`	`However, the resource file prints a header for that section of the template when it's included.`
`19:23.02`	`tene`	`Any guesses as to what language it's coded in?`
`19:23.18`	`graphyx`	`c?`
`19:23.29`	`tene`	`Nope.`
`19:23.35`	`tene`	`PHP, of course!`
`19:25.19`	`tene`	`Oh, you have no idea.`
`19:25.23`	`tene`	`This is a nightmare`
`19:25.26`	`graphyx`	`jsmith: Any idea how to set the service level of a queue in asterisk?`
`19:25.53`	`tene`	`I would have to work to make this any more stupidly designed.`
`19:26.15`	`levi`	`tene: Why are you dealing with PHP again?`
`19:26.49`	`tene`	`A client is using ths CRM software and has asked us to add some features to it.`
`19:26.52`	`jsmith`	`graphyx: I should know, but can't think of it off the top of my head`
`19:27.04`	`jsmith`	`graphyx: To be honest, I haven't played with queues that much.`
`19:27.22`	`graphyx`	`k, thanks for the try.`
`19:27.25`	`levi`	`tene: Which CRM software?`
`19:27.29`	`jsmith`	`tene: Doesn't happen to be RightNow, does it?`
`19:27.33`	`tene`	`SugarCRM`
`19:27.59`	`tene`	`It's got excellent reviews all around from various magazines and such.`
`19:28.09`	`tene`	`But the code is... wow`
`19:28.22`	`graphyx`	`that good or that bad?`
`19:28.26`	`jsmith`	`tene: That bad, eh?`
`19:28.35`	`tene`	`Bad.`
`19:28.35`	`jsmith`	`tene: Or just over-engineered?`
`19:28.54`	`tene`	`The code is obscenely disgusting and they apparently know nothing about relational databases.`
`19:29.09`	`jsmith`	`tene: Unfortunately, most PHP programmers don't.`
`19:29.13`	`tene`	`like`
`19:29.20`	`tene`	`they manually implement joins.`
`19:29.41`	`vontrapp`	`oh wow`
`19:29.44`	`jsmith`	`Yuck.`
`19:29.46`	`graphyx`	`they treat DB's as scratch pads.`
`19:29.47`	`jsmith`	`That's gross.`
`19:30.26`	`tene`	`They have a thing where you can edit fields and such that users have.`
`19:30.39`	`tene`	`And they add/delete columns from the db`
`19:31.35`	`levi`	`PHP is a great source of evil in the world.`
`19:31.35`	`shadoi`	`wrong. Stupid people are.`
`19:31.35`	`tene`	`They have data duplicated in a variety of places.`
`19:32.05`	`levi`	`PHP is not the direct source, but it works out about the same in the end.`
`19:32.08`	`tene`	`The code segfaults on most builds of PHP I've tried because they do things that the manual explicitly says not to do.`
`19:32.22`	`tene`	`PHP manual, that is.`
`19:44.05`	`hans`	`sigh. the words authentication and authorization make life hard`
`19:44.24`	`hans`	`as in, I have a hard time keeping them separate in my mind`
`19:44.49`	`hans`	`I understand the _difference_, I just have a hard time applying the correct meaning in realtime as I read docs`
`19:46.58`	`graphyx`	`well authentication basically equals you know who they are..`
`19:47.25`	`graphyx`	`Authorization means that now that you know who they are you have checked the reference monitor and they are allowed to access said resource.`
`19:47.37`	`Maquis`	`grrrr`
`19:47.54`	`Maquis`	`how hard could it possibly be to port iCal from OSX to Linux?`
`19:48.32`	`graphyx`	`~emulate gir`
`19:48.34`	`ibot`	`i need tacos! i need tacos or i'll explode. that happens to me sometimes.`
`19:50.08`	`graphyx`	`hans: what degree are you going for?`
`19:51.48`	`levi`	`Maquis: Difficulty 1: No source code available. Difficulty 2: Different GUI libraries (unless GNUStep is up to it)`
`19:52.23`	`hans`	`graphyx: cs`
`19:52.32`	`hans`	`phd`
`19:53.33`	`Maquis`	`levi: still... i want it...`
`19:53.57`	`Maquis`	`i suppose that someone could probably build something that at least looks like it from sunbird, though`
`19:54.04`	`levi`	`Maquis: Well, get to work! It should be possible to reimplement the functionality.`
`19:54.09`	`Maquis`	`(sunbird is kinda ugly still)`
`19:54.23`	`graphyx`	`hans: I was going to say I know you got your cs degree already...`
`19:54.49`	`Maquis`	`levi: i would... except i'm a student who would kind-of like to pass classes`
`19:55.32`	`levi`	`Maquis: Weak excuse! Just work harder. ;)`
`19:55.45`	`Maquis`	`~fail levi`
`19:56.48`	`hans`	`well you did just buy a laptop`
`19:57.15`	`Maquis`	`hans: yes... and a pretty laptop it is`
`19:57.55`	`levi`	`I use iCal. It's nice.`
`19:58.14`	`hans`	`you could have gotten a mac`
`19:58.30`	`Maquis`	`hans: yeah... but thinkpads are nicer`
`19:58.45`	`Maquis`	`thinkpads are definitely sexier`
`19:59.23`	`levi`	`I don't know, but I don't think I want to visit.`
`20:00.12`	`hans`	`I've seen enough NICs fail in thinkpads to preclude my ever wanting one`
`20:00.26`	`hans`	`(remember that plug thread, that wasn't including thinkpad NICs)`
`20:01.08`	`hans`	`at work at least half of the people that had laptops (the company buys thinkpads) have a pcmcia network card because the internal nic had died or is acting up`
`20:01.22`	`vontrapp`	`and with hans' nic karma, he needs every precaution against nic failure`
`20:01.28`	`hans`	`:)`
`20:02.12`	`vontrapp`	`me, i just have bad printer karma`
`20:02.22`	`hans`	`you stay away from my printer`
`20:02.23`	`vontrapp`	`never seen a nic go bad`
`20:02.35`	`hans`	`vontrapp: what about wireless nics?`
`20:02.45`	`hans`	`you've had more than your fair share of fun with those`
`20:02.50`	`scott_`	`thinkpads are sexy in a boring business suit got-it-cause-my-company-made-me not-very-sexy kind of way.`
`20:02.50`	`vontrapp`	`ive seen those act up every day of the week`
`20:03.10`	`hans`	`well, I'm glad maquis likes her laptop`
`20:03.25`	`vontrapp`	`scott_: your company made you not very sexy? you should get a new job`
`20:03.27`	`hans`	`and I think thinkpads are the best-looking aside from macs, even if they are quirky`
`20:03.40`	`*** join/#utah Jayce^ (n=Jayce_@pollux.northsky.com)`
`20:03.40`	`*** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ`
`20:03.45`	`hans`	`Jayce^, on the other hand`
`20:03.47`	`scott_`	`vontrapp: opps, :), forgot the -get-it`
`20:04.20`	`Jayce^`	`hunh,wha,who?`
`20:04.20`	`vontrapp`	`he doesn't need a company's help`
`20:04.43`	`hans`	`we're just guessing how many copies of pride and prejudice you own`
`20:07.51`	`Jayce^`	`HAH`
`20:07.55`	`hans`	`HA! It's hotter in Provo right now than it is here in Las Cruces`
`20:07.59`	`hans`	`32 vs 30`
`20:08.48`	`vontrapp`	`yeah, but you wear a blanket of wetness`
`20:09.07`	`hans`	`nah, it's not too bad today`
`20:09.20`	`*** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@209.210.254.152)`
`20:09.25`	`hans`	`and the humidity is only during july/august`
`20:09.49`	`vontrapp`	`and you won't get any snow :-p`
`20:10.17`	`hans`	`there's chiles roasting in the albertsons parking lot a block away. trump!`
`20:10.35`	`vontrapp`	`:-/`
`20:11.15`	`Bradipo`	`I have tomatoes sun drying in my driveway.`
`20:11.28`	`Bradipo`	`Trump!`
`20:11.30`	`vontrapp`	`that's nothing to roasting chiles`
`20:11.43`	`hans`	`yeah, you can't smell them. but they do taste pretty good`
`20:11.47`	`Bradipo`	`Depends on whether or not you like chilis more I suppose.`
`20:11.48`	`vontrapp`	`i miss that smell!`
`20:12.07`	`hans`	`vontrapp: did you guys not buy some chile when you were down here?`
`20:12.11`	`hans`	`i forgot to remind you to`
`20:12.16`	`vontrapp`	`we didn't`
`20:12.19`	`hans`	`doh`
`20:12.24`	`vontrapp`	`yeah, i know`
`20:12.42`	`vontrapp`	`we'll roast some in nich's roaster for mom's birthday`
`20:19.01`	`vontrapp`	`probably joking, nobody gets married anymore`
`20:19.52`	`Bradipo`	`vontrapp: With how much the definition of marriage is changing, this becomes a true statement...`
`20:20.17`	`goozbach`	`Maquis: not another one!!! :)`
`20:20.45`	`vontrapp`	`there's a guy that jokes about being engaged to this girl`
`20:20.59`	`vontrapp`	`it annoys the heck out of me, because i'm trying to date her`
`20:21.14`	`Maquis`	`goozbach: yes... another one`
`20:21.47`	`Maquis`	`goozbach: i've ran into 4 friends so far today who, since last time i saw them, have become engaged --- some of whom are also married now`
`20:22.40`	`Bradipo`	vontrapp: Maybe you need to sing her ``Edelweiss'' to secure your affections. :-)
`20:22.47`	`vontrapp`	`lol`
`20:23.00`	`vontrapp`	`to secure her affections you mean`
`20:23.11`	`Bradipo`	`Ahh, that too...`
`20:23.38`	`hans`	`edelweiss, the magic fidelity song`
`20:24.19`	`Bradipo`	`But executed from vontrapp, it should be irresistable.`
`20:28.04`	`graphyx`	`executed by vontrapp.. Does that mean he will completely mangle it?`
`20:28.17`	`graphyx`	`As in "Yes, I'll marry you, but promise that you won't ever try to sing again?`
`20:28.36`	`vontrapp`	`hey now, this is the vontrapp singer you're talking about`
`20:28.51`	`levi`	`Maquis: Provo is totally insane that way.`
`20:33.16`	`*** join/#utah harleypig (n=Clint@65.73.113.162)`
`20:33.21`	`vontrapp`	`oink oink`
`20:33.29`	`harleypig`	`snort`
`20:33.40`	`Jayce^`	`oink`
`20:33.46`	`vontrapp`	`sigh maquis, he's not a dangerous pig`
`20:33.57`	`harleypig`	`heh`
`20:34.02`	`Bradipo`	`graphyx: Just a slip of the mind... In Italian the word is eseguire, which directly translated is executed.`
`20:34.14`	`Bradipo`	`Of course I meant performed...`
`20:34.14`	`Jayce^`	`hey harleypig, I made Joe shudder in horror today..`
`20:34.24`	`graphyx`	`Bradipo: Dove hai imparato italiano?`
`20:34.36`	`Bradipo`	`In Italia.`
`20:34.49`	`graphyx`	`Quando?`
`20:34.49`	`harleypig`	`Jayce^: how'd you poke his shrinkwrap?`
`20:34.50`	`Jayce^`	`I guess some guy in tech support was wearing a kilt last week, same style you apparently want..`
`20:34.54`	`Bradipo`	`Ho servito una missione a Catania, in Sicilia.`
`20:34.55`	`harleypig`	`:D`
`20:35.04`	`Jayce^`	`I mentioned how we had to keep it out of your hands..`
`20:35.05`	`Bradipo`	`Sono ormai 10 anni che sono tornato.`
`20:35.18`	`Jayce^`	`since we both know, the first thing you'd do after getting one is look for a trampoline..`
`20:35.24`	`graphyx`	`sono retornato da Padova sei anno fa.`
`20:35.26`	`harleypig`	`I want a micromini. Just to blow peoples minds.`
`20:35.26`	`Bradipo`	`Quasi 11 alla fine dell'anno.`
`20:35.26`	`Jayce^`	`he was eating lunch at the time..`
`20:35.41`	`Jayce^`	`he stopped around that point`
`20:35.47`	`harleypig`	`And of course I'll wear my speedos underneath.`
`20:35.51`	`harleypig`	`:D`
`20:36.10`	`graphyx`	`I would hope so..`
`20:36.25`	`graphyx`	`Bradipo: ganzo.. qualcun'altro che parla italiano.`
`20:36.50`	`Bradipo`	Insomma... dopo dieci anni e` piu` mangiare che parlare.
`20:37.13`	`Jayce^`	`graphyx, with harleypig, you never know, or want to..`
`20:37.23`	`graphyx`	`bradipo: comprendo, ormai le parole me scappano spesso.`
`20:37.28`	`Bradipo`	`Comunque.`
`20:37.41`	`harleypig`	`graphyx: You don't want to see me in speedos OR a micromini!`
`20:37.58`	`graphyx`	`I know.`
`20:38.04`	`graphyx`	`I've seen you in jeans and that was bad enough..`
`20:38.08`	`Jayce^`	`ah, k`
`20:38.41`	`graphyx`	`We used to work together.`
`20:38.48`	`graphyx`	`but on different shifts.`
`20:39.18`	`Bradipo`	`graphyx: Quando sei partito in missione?`
`20:39.28`	`harleypig`	`Oh, that's right. I'd forgotten. I don't place nicks with people very well.`
`20:39.37`	`graphyx`	`Bradipo: Sono partito in Febriaio 1997.`
`20:39.57`	`graphyx`	`'sok`
`20:41.56`	`hans`	`can a group name start with a number?`
`20:42.16`	`graphyx`	`for what? asterisk?`
`20:42.19`	`graphyx`	`nvm.`
`20:42.28`	`graphyx`	`can a username start with a numer?`
`20:42.30`	`graphyx`	`number?`
`20:43.18`	`hans`	`posix group`
`20:43.32`	`graphyx`	`i realised once I typed..`
`20:43.49`	`graphyx`	`you know, better to remain silent and let people think you a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt..`
`20:46.10`	`hans`	`looks like you can't`
`20:50.49`	`jsmith`	`hans: Figures...`
`20:59.00`	`hans`	`for i in "ar .arpasswd" ...`
`20:59.11`	`hans`	`how do I split that into its two pieces then?`
`20:59.17`	`hans`	`./myscript $i`
`20:59.23`	`hans`	`is thinking the whole "ar .arpasswd" is $1`
`20:59.34`	`Bradipo`	`Get rid of the quotes?`
`20:59.41`	`Bradipo`	`for i in ar .arpasswd`
`20:59.41`	`levi`	`Time to head to school!`
`20:59.43`	`hans`	`but then you do for i in ar .arpasswd which is no help`
`20:59.56`	`hans`	`i want to call e.g.`
`21:00.01`	`hans`	`./myscript ar .arpasswd`
`21:00.07`	`hans`	`over and over`
`21:00.07`	`Bradipo`	`Ok.`
`21:00.22`	`Bradipo`	`while :; do ./myscript ar .arpasswd; done`
`21:00.36`	`hans`	`well, not the same thing over and over`
`21:00.43`	`hans`	`for i in "ar .arpasswd" "cert .certpasswd" "check .checkpasswd" "credit .creditpasswd" "docs .docspasswd" "dp .dponly" "invprint .invprintpasswd" "labor .laborpasswd" "price .price"; do echo $i; ./populate_groups.sh $i >> members.ldif; done`
`21:01.17`	`hans`	`that's what doesn't work ($1 = e.g. "ar .arpasswd")`
`21:02.17`	`Bradipo`	`So you want populate_groups.sh to receive one variable? or two?`
`21:02.22`	`hans`	`two`
`21:02.36`	`hans`	`inside populate_groups.sh I want $1=ar, and $2=.arpasswd`
`21:02.47`	`Bradipo`	`Right.`
`21:07.09`	`hans`	`odd`
`21:07.16`	`vontrapp`	perl -e "`./myscript $1`"
`21:07.17`	`hans`	`# Echo words 3 and 5`
`21:07.18`	`hans`	`read var`
`21:07.18`	`hans`	`set -- $var`
`21:07.18`	`hans`	`echo $3 $5`
`21:07.18`	`Bradipo`	How about populate_groups.sh `echo $i`
`21:09.38`	`hans`	`nope`
`21:09.44`	`hans`	`the odd set -- thing worked`
`21:11.00`	`Bradipo`	`Hmm, now this is odd.`
`21:11.02`	`vontrapp`	`from the man page: "A -- singals the end of options and disables further option processing. Any arguments after the -- are treated as filenames and urguments."`
`21:11.25`	`hans`	`(I did set -- $1 at the beginning of my script)`
`21:11.28`	`Bradipo`	`I just wrote a script that takes $1 and $2 and prints them out. I then fed it through a for loop as you have done and it didn't pass $i as one varibale.`
`21:11.35`	`vontrapp`	`so iow, after -- the words are read into arguments $1 $2 ...`
`21:11.40`	`hans`	`see, I thought that was how it worked`
`21:11.55`	`hans`	`my brother was trying to write a script yesterday and the output he gave me led me to believe that that's what had happened`
`21:12.00`	`Bradipo`	`Ahh.`
`21:12.04`	`Bradipo`	`Never trust thy brother.`
`21:12.06`	`hans`	`so I figured it would work`
`21:12.24`	`hans`	`but then it didn't so I figured I'd guessed wrong. but if you verify that it does it there... now I'm confused`
`21:12.28`	`hans`	`~blame redhat`
`21:12.33`	`ibot`	`ACTION blames redhat for all the evil in the world`
`21:12.41`	`hans`	`anyway, task accomplished`
`21:12.59`	`Bradipo`	`Well...`
`21:13.13`	`Bradipo`	`If you call it as ./myscript "$i" then it will behave differently.`
`21:13.20`	`hans`	`no, I didn't use quotes`
`21:13.27`	`Bradipo`	`Right, as I can see here.`
`21:13.41`	`Bradipo`	`But just in case it was called with "" yesterday...`
`21:14.06`	`hans`	`yesterday his script was acting like yours`
`21:14.10`	`Bradipo`	`Hmm.`
`21:14.14`	`hans`	`./script $i`
`21:14.30`	`hans`	`was turning $i into as many parameters as $i had words with spaces`
`21:14.33`	`Bradipo`	`Right.`
`21:14.34`	`hans`	`or however you say that. :)`
`21:14.38`	`Bradipo`	`Seems to be the behavior here.`
`21:14.43`	`hans`	`odd`
`21:23.02`	`*** join/#utah fungus (n=fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a)`
`21:34.35`	`mrpull_`	`note to self... vi sudo != visudo`
`21:41.18`	`neybar_work`	`vi'ing sudo always has that large notice, but I've never been bitten by it... yet`
`21:44.00`	`hans`	`can a redhat apologist enlighten me? we bought this stupid enterprise server thing (RHEL AS 3)`
`21:44.17`	`hans`	`and now I want something simple like to install mod_auth_ldap for apache`
`21:44.21`	`vontrapp`	`hans: i'm sorry redhat sucks`
`21:44.31`	`*** join/#utah mindjuju (n=mindjuju@216.20.238.225)`
`21:44.40`	`hans`	`and I can't figure out how (our support contract is expired, so even if I could figure out how to get up2date to work, I doubt I could use it)`
`21:44.43`	`*** part/#utah mindjuju (n=mindjuju@216.20.238.225)`
`21:45.00`	`hans`	`I'm taking deep breaths, so I promise not to bite your head off, if you just tell me how I can find RPMs for RHEL`
`21:51.30`	`*** join/#utah wps (n=wade@66.237.80.85)`
`21:53.38`	`vontrapp`	`~banish hunger`
`22:03.15`	`goozbach`	`hans: you can add the yum archives for centos to up2date's list`
`22:04.38`	`*** join/#utah mrpull_ (n=mrpull\|@205.158.184.112)`
`22:04.52`	`vontrapp`	`" We're sorry, but we are unable to show you this digital sheet music. That would require our Viewer plugin"`
`22:05.46`	`hans`	`goozbach: so you think I should put this box on yum with centos' packages?`
`22:06.08`	`colera`	`is there a pdf viewer in linux that is comparable to adobe for win?`
`22:07.23`	`hans`	`adobe acrobat reader comes to mind`
`22:07.50`	`colera`	`: )`
`22:07.58`	`colera`	`is there a debian package for it?`
`22:08.06`	`hans`	`no, because it's not libre`
`22:09.38`	`hans`	`(but apt-get.org might be your friend)`
`22:09.58`	`hans`	`personally, I use xpdf most, and gv next most`
`22:10.09`	`hans`	`but acrobat is indeed the most comparable to acrobat on windows`
`22:13.47`	`goozbach`	`hans: you can make up2date use a yum reop`
`22:13.50`	`goozbach`	`er repo`
`22:14.18`	`goozbach`	`so you don't really even have to install yum`
`22:14.18`	`hans`	`well I've never bothered to figure out up2date, so I'd be starting from scratch either way`
`22:14.24`	`hans`	`so which direction would you go`
`22:14.41`	`goozbach`	`if you're support contract is out of the equation I'd say just migrate the box to CentOS`
`22:15.26`	`goozbach`	`I'm not too sure how well it'd go using up2date with the Cent yum repos`
`22:15.38`	`Jayce^`	`goozbach, so, you find out about saturday?`
`22:15.47`	`goozbach`	`Jayce^: I'm not gonna be able to go`
`22:15.51`	`Jayce^`	`slacker`
`22:15.56`	`Jayce^`	`we've got a bunch of people :)`
`22:15.57`	`goozbach`	`I'm driving down with my sister that morning`
`22:16.00`	`goozbach`	`I know`
`22:16.07`	`Jayce^`	`tell her to wait until the afternoon`
`22:16.12`	`Jayce^`	`heck, we're ont he way :)`
`22:16.37`	`goozbach`	`but she wants to go down that morning, and I don't have my own car.`
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`22:16.52`	`goozbach`	`so I'm kinda stuck on going when she's going`
`22:17.18`	`Jayce^`	`as a friend says.... You're obviously not hitting hard enough then...`
`22:17.20`	`Jayce^`	`:)`
`22:17.41`	`Lone_Wanderer`	`Does anyone know of a way to define and organize documents in an object oriented sort of way? so like I could create a candy_order_form.doc and specify that it extends order_form.doc?`
`22:21.13`	`goozbach`	`OO.o templates`
`22:21.16`	`goozbach`	`?`
`22:21.28`	`goozbach`	`create the order form template`
`22:21.30`	`goozbach`	`then copy it`
`22:21.37`	`goozbach`	`to create the candy oorder form`
`22:22.06`	`goozbach`	`I don't know of any programatic ways`
`22:22.58`	`vontrapp`	`you could learn tech, and make document classes that you could include and extend upon`
`22:23.05`	`vontrapp`	`um, my brain is off`
`22:23.08`	`vontrapp`	`i meant TeX`
`22:23.24`	`jsmith`	`Or DocBook...`
`22:24.08`	`goozbach`	`yeah I guess that could work`
`22:26.47`	`Lone_Wanderer`	`what are TeX and DocBook?`
`22:30.45`	`vontrapp`	`~hug sheetmusicarchive.net`
`22:30.46`	`ibot`	`ACTION hugs sheetmusicarchive.net`
`22:45.26`	`harleypig`	`splits are fun`
`22:45.26`	`Jayce^`	`joyous`
`22:45.46`	`Jayce^`	`is that one hosted there or something?`
`22:45.48`	`lars-ut-away`	`wait make that czech node zelazny.freenode.net`
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`23:02.08`	`colera`	`i have two extra buttons on my mouse how can i program them to do something in linux?`
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`23:04.26`	`TimRiker`	`colera: iirc newer xorg X has some support for that, iirc X protocol only used to support 5 buttons and a 2 button plus wheel eats those up.`
`23:04.26`	`harleypig`	`You start by ringing a bell every time you feed them.`
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`23:23.10`	`colera`	`how do i install gnome in debian? there are a million gnome packages is there like a catch all?>`
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`23:35.30`	`xbmodder`	`colera_, apt-get install gnome`
`23:39.06`	`xbmodder`	`money is just pouring out of google.`
`23:54.14`	`colera`	`anyone know how to play an m3u playlist in mplayer on the command line?`
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`23:59.41`	`xbmodder`	`mplayer -playlist {playlist.m3u`
`23:59.43`	`xbmodder`	`}`

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