irclog2html for #utah on 20050809

00:07.09goozbachlevi: it's usually not finding stage 2
00:07.31levigoozbach: Yup.  That's definitely the case.
00:07.59levigoozbach: I switched it so stage 1.5 got installed in the MBR, and now it give me an error 2.
00:08.21leviAnd I've given up.  I think grub doesn't like the SATA RAID controller or something.
00:08.41goozbachcould be
00:09.48leviMy coworker will beat his head against it tomorrow morning.
00:10.01leviI wonder if we'd have any better luck with lilo.
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00:51.30goozbachhowdy from hotlanta!
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01:28.35hansgoozbach: we have an office in hotlanta. maybe you can beat some sense into them
01:28.51hansif I send you a hit list with addresses...
01:33.30tene~units
01:33.31ibotconverts between different systems of units. URL: ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/units/
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02:23.39Maquis~goo
02:23.39ibotgoo is, like, goozbach
02:23.43Maquis~goozbach
02:23.43ibot[goozbach] a future que-ball. easier to catch than a retarted sasquatch
02:24.00Maquishuh?
02:24.02linuxalienHow cruel. :)
02:30.05Maquisyou think that's cruel??
02:30.38linuxalienThe truth hurts you know. ;) j/k
02:30.40Maquis~beat linuxalien
02:30.41ibotACTION beats linuxalien with a large stick.
02:30.44Maquisyup
02:30.54linuxalienhehehe
02:34.01Maquis~whimper
02:34.02ibotACTION huddles in the corner, whimpering softly.
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05:13.26Maquiswow...
05:13.32Maquisfinding neverland is a good movie
05:14.26NewsomeMarch of the Penguins was good too
05:14.35Maquisthat sounded good
05:14.43Maquismy mom didn't think she'd enjoy it, so we haven't seen it yet
05:15.00Newsomedocumentary in the form of a story
05:15.05Newsomemy 4-year-old liked it
05:17.47leviI need to watch Finding Neverland.  My wife got it at Easter, and I still haven't watched it.
05:18.04leviI want to see March of the Penguins, though.
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13:26.50graphyxOk What is the best asterisk book to get?
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14:16.02hansgraphyx: the oreilly one that's coming out next month by jsmith
14:16.19graphyxjsmith is writting an asterisk book?
14:16.21graphyxwow..
14:16.38hanshas written, yup
14:16.57graphyxdoes anyone know who jsmith is?
14:17.05hansyup
14:17.16graphyxhis real name wouldn't happen to be Dave would it?
14:17.22hansno, jared
14:17.25graphyxOk.
14:17.32graphyxThat is quite the coincidence.
14:18.07graphyxI have another friend from BYU (CS degree) who takes care of a business in Fl who uses asterisk who is writting a book on asterisk to be finished this month..
14:18.13hanshttp://www.jaredsmith.net/
14:18.30graphyxJust wondering if the two people were one in the same, but it appears not.
14:18.33hanswho?
14:18.39graphyxDavid Gomillion.
14:18.57graphyxI don't think he ever did the PLUG thing..
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14:21.49hansI had 380 with him. Or 324 or whatever it was. What book is he writing?
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14:29.10sjansenIt's time to pick a new password for my server. What's a good password?
14:34.09graphyxI don't konw the specifics..
14:34.13graphyxBut it is a book on asterisk.
14:34.36graphyxsjansen: use securepassword#6953
14:34.41graphyxIt's really a good password.
14:35.00graphyxIt's long, easy to remember and has numbers and a symbol in it.
14:35.13graphyxAnd funny enough to be memorable.
14:35.24graphyxOr.. Thisisnottherootpasswordyouseak
14:35.30graphyxs/seak/seek/
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14:42.18bowser_password selection tool: head /dev/urandom | strings | tr -d '\n'
14:42.19bowser_:)
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14:47.05vontrappsjansen: take some foreign word from a song/album name or something and modify it
14:49.53vontrappe.g. rondo alla turca => ralltundo
14:50.23vontrappit makes it amazingly easy to remember
15:03.22sjansenHeh, I didn't actually expect useful suggestions.
15:03.42sjansenFor the record, my passwords are usually easy to guess if you know me well enough.
15:04.14sjansen<PROTECTED>
15:05.42graphyxAh comon..
15:05.47graphyxWe are mostly sysadmins or such.
15:05.55graphyxIf we can't come up with good passwords who can?
15:09.52dataw0lfsjansen: n0y0u5ux0rz
15:09.57BradipoI use apg to generate passwords
15:10.21dataw0lfI use 1337 acronyms
15:10.24Bradipo``apg -M SNLC'' makes some nice ones.
15:10.27dataw0lfwith interchanging caps
15:10.28dataw0lflike
15:10.35neybar_workI do too, or keyboard patterns
15:10.36dataw0lf$ItRoAe@tH&lL
15:11.07dataw0lf'Money is the root of all evil at the highest and lowest levels'
15:11.36BradipoOk, so now you can't use that password...
15:11.47xbmodderneybar_work, keyboard patterns are easy to see when keyboard surfing.
15:12.02neybar_workits true, but I can remember then which is a huge plus
15:12.24dataw0lfBradipo: I have dozens like that.
15:12.30dataw0lfand I use that password currently.
15:12.35dataw0lfOn this box.
15:12.38dataw0lfGood luck getting to it.
15:13.47dataw0lfdataw0lf.org/raid.jpg Top right hard drive ;)
15:15.16Jayce^dataw0lf, similar to what I do
15:15.58dataw0lfJayce^: re: password generation?
15:16.07Jayce^yeah.
15:16.09dataw0lfword
15:16.30dataw0lfit's a decent system, easy when you have dozens of root passwords to remember.
15:17.02Jayce^nice when you can get a date (year) or mix in another language too :)  easier for *you* to remember the phrase
15:17.20xbmodderOff to linux world!!
15:17.40dataw0lfJayce^: haha, yeah, I mix in italian quite a bit
15:20.35Jayce^everybody, remember to remind folks about the Damian Conway meeting tomorrow
15:20.36sjansendataw0lf: thanks, that's a password no one would ever guess for me ;-)
15:21.07dataw0lfsjansen: ;)
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15:41.34leviMorning.
15:42.45RyanEmorning.
15:44.55leviOooh, the Pontiac Solstices are on dealer lots now.
15:46.41BradipoHow much are they going for?
15:46.53leviI dunno, but they look pretty.
15:47.01BradipoYeah they do.
15:47.12leviThey probably start in the low mid 20s.
15:47.13BradipoI doubt I would fit comfortably in one, judging by the pictures.
15:47.28leviI think the Saturn Sky looks better, though.
15:47.41leviI don't think those'll be coming out for another year.
15:49.26leviBut I'd rather have the '06 MX-5, anyway.
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16:06.09leviThat's no good.
16:06.09tensai~zap Maquis
16:06.09ibotACTION takes out a cattle prod and gives Maquis a good jolt.
16:06.22hanswhy not? boy?
16:08.57graphyx~charge Maquis
16:09.06graphyx~charge
16:16.58Maquishans: not really...
16:17.08Maquisjust too hot in the house, and just not sleeping well
16:17.41tensaiMaquis: pack a bunch of ziploc bags with ice and litter them around the bed
16:18.16leviDarned boys.
16:18.20Maquistensai: wrapped in blankets/sheets, that might actually be a good idea...
16:18.28Maquislevi: yeah :-P
16:18.40Jayce^good old WA, most houses don't have any form of cooling installed
16:19.48MaquisJayce^: yeah...
16:20.04Maquiswe have windows as our primary form of cooling
16:20.22Jayce^and a box fan :)
16:20.40tensaiMaquis: you should know Windows(tm) doesn't work!
16:21.38tewkSo where is the meeting tomorrow?
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16:24.25Jayce^UVSC, CS 404
16:24.30Jayce^www.plug.org has info
16:25.02Jayce^you got coworkers heading there?
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16:26.45tewkCool, what is the topic?
16:26.55tewkcoworkers heading there?
16:28.26Maquisquestion
16:29.05Maquisin what situations is it "okay" to explicitly throw and catch an exception within the same function?
16:29.11Maquisand what about within the same class?
16:31.01hansspolsky has some interesting things to say on exceptions
16:31.30hansbut ultimately "okay" depends on who the authority you're deferring to is.
16:31.54Maquishmmm
16:31.56Maquisthat's not helpful
16:32.00hansnope
16:32.15hansif nobody dictates what's ok, then do what you judge is best
16:35.16hansI haven't used exceptions a whole lot, but my amatuer opinion is they should be used in exceptional situations (unexpected errors). If you forsee an error possibly happening, code for it.
16:35.29hansif an error does happen even though you didn't forsee it, code for it
16:35.45hans(and add a unit test)
16:36.19Jayce^Sufficiently Advanced Technologies, along with a splash of perl 6
16:36.26Jayce^pretty good general programming topic
16:38.21tensai~exceptions
16:38.22ibotexceptions are the inevitable result of having rules
16:38.58tewkI'll be there, I'm interested in perl 6.
16:39.36tewkIn functional programming, Exceptions are just a specialized control structure, a limited continuation. :)
16:40.41Jayce^this is the guy to talk to if you want to know anything on perl 6 :)
16:44.11tewkYep, I know.  I try to follow pugs/parrot development, but it moves fast.
16:44.22tewkDo you need any help setting up?
16:47.02Jayce^don't think so
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17:02.26leviMmm, Beethoven's 9th.
17:02.40hansnice, when performed properly
17:02.45hanstoo often it isn't
17:03.24leviExceptions in the Java language are expensive, IIRC.
17:03.43leviAnd they always unwind the stack, so there's no going back once you throw.
17:04.06levihans: The BBC Orchestra seems to have done a pretty good job.
17:05.57leviMaquis: I'd probably use a throw/catch in the same function/method in the same sort of situation where I'd use a goto in C to get to a generic cleanup block of code before aborting a complex operation.
17:07.32vontrappdo you need an account in protocol X to use jabber transport in X?
17:07.49leviCommon Lisp has an interesting condition system that doesn't automatically unwind the stack and is more lightweight, so it's useful for more things than an exception system usually is.
17:08.36leviJoel would probably not like it, but I'm not convinced that his opinion is universally valuable.
17:09.29vontrappi think he's got excellent UI ideas, don't know beyond that
17:10.26leviI think a lot of his opinions have merit, but I don't think he's the last word on everything he talks about.
17:11.09leviAnd a lot of his statements can't be applied as well outside of realm of Java and similar languages.
17:11.23levioutside of the realm, that is.
17:11.33hansagreed
17:11.50hanshe's especially lucid on managing programmers
17:12.22hansand particularly sad when talking about open source
17:12.54hansbut he does have some strong opinions about exceptions, and if you want to get a feel for what people say about things, you seek out the people with strong opinions about it. :)
17:13.45hansblasted sles8 doesn't have bonding support in its ifup scripts
17:15.17leviThough a lot of his opinions on exceptions are colored by his Java nature.
17:16.10leviBut, since Maquis is using Java, they're probably good guidelines to follow.
17:16.12hansdoes graham have anything to say about them/
17:16.58leviWell, the Common Lisp condition system isn't quite analogous to the Java Exception system.  Exceptions are a subset of conditions.
17:17.50leviThey still have the same property of making the flow of control a bit less explicit, though, so arguments based on that still hold.
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17:26.15levihans: I just posted a link to my lisp blog regarding the common lisp condition system, if you're interested.
17:28.31leviGraham didn't cover the system very much in his 'ANSI Common Lisp' book, so I don't imagine he uses it very much.
17:29.26leviBut, interestingly, the Common Lisp condition system could be used to implement an Aspect Oriented Programming extension to CL.
17:30.59tenevontrapp: yes, you do need an account on protocolX to use such a transport
17:31.27leviAnyway, that's enough yakking about that.
17:31.49vontrapptene: that's what i thought
17:32.01vontrappthx
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17:48.24tewklocate pdf
17:50.32vontrapplocate chocolate coated sugar bombs
17:50.46Jayce^chocolate *frosted* sugar bombs
17:51.50vontrappoh, my bad
17:59.46tene~tene
17:59.46ibotmethinks tene is Tenebram, or the king of pirate, or my god, or chocolate covered sugar bombs, or a liar
18:00.26vontrapp~tene =~ s/covered/frosted/
18:00.26ibotvontrapp: OK
18:00.36tene~tene
18:00.36ibotextra, extra, read all about it, tene is Tenebram, or the king of pirate, or my god, or chocolate frosted sugar bombs, or a liar
18:00.50hans~vontrap
18:00.53hans~vontrapp
18:00.53ibot[vontrapp] anonymous, or an escape artist, or hans' brother
18:01.09synicwhat's a good util to convert flac to mp3 ?
18:01.32hanssynic: you probably want to convert flac to wav, then wav to mp3
18:01.40hansor whatever your favorite uncompressed audio format is.
18:02.02synichrm, I was hoping for a method that would preserve metadata
18:02.23vontrappstupid bot is ignoring me
18:02.34leviDump the metadata, convert to wav, convert to mp3, then reload the metadata. :)
18:02.39vontrappnot even help works
18:03.45tenesynic: sox is good for audio conversions
18:03.56synicsox eh?  ok, thanks
18:03.56tenesox file.flac file.mp3
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18:06.03enver555hi to all people
18:06.09tenehi
18:07.29colerasynic: what have you found to be the avg. size of each flac zong?
18:07.45synic~47MB
18:09.30coleraman that is so big, wav files are only like 60 right?
18:10.46coleralossless is cool but not THAT cool : )
18:11.15sprcolera, I've found that flac is about 50% of the original wav file
18:11.18colerai wish i had a dual 500 gb striped raid array, then i would use flac
18:11.31coleraspr: oh that's pretty decent savings
18:12.52tensailevi: I tried to set up a new account on your blog but the setup email never arrived. my mail server rejected it because www-data@brute.local.network isn't routeable as a sender.
18:15.22sprsynic, I'm using a script I wrote to convert directory trees of flac files into similar trees of mp3/ogg
18:15.33sprhttps://mahonri5.net/svn/public/oggify/oggify.pl
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18:53.38levitensai: Ahh, yeah.  I haven't set that up since moving my blog to my home server.
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19:02.04levitensai: That should be fixed now.
19:06.07tensailevi: yup, worked fine
19:07.02leviYow, I haven't run drupal's cron script since the end of March.
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19:16.49MaquisGRRR
19:17.31levitensai: I've started posting my technical content to my lisp blog engine, which is linked from my main blog in the blogroll.
19:17.46leviMaquis: Something wrong?
19:21.47Bradipoblogroll... is that some kind of new sushi? :-)
19:21.52Maquislevi: yeah.....  
19:22.15misterpullanyone ever use argus for monitoring?
19:22.23MaquisI was told, at my last code review to remove some "stupid" features...
19:22.37Maquisnow i'm being told to add the exact same features
19:25.37leviMaquis: Ahh, the fickleness of project managers.
19:29.55Maquislevi: not project managers
19:29.57Maquisdevelopers
19:36.44leviWell, them too.
19:43.10leviIf they didn't think of the feature, it must be dumb.
19:43.36leviLater, when they discover it themselves, it becomes a necessary feature.
19:53.37Maquis~beat goozbach
19:53.37ibotACTION beats goozbach with a large stick.
19:53.44Maquislevi: yeah...
19:53.59Maquisit only removes 10 minutes of waiting time
19:54.13goozbachhey!!!
19:55.21goozbach~tickle Maquis
19:55.21ibotACTION jumps on Maquis, yelling "TICKLE FIGHT!!!!"
19:56.09Maquishe goo
19:56.10Maquissup?
19:56.46goozbachwaiting for turner field to open
19:57.04goozbachwe just missed the tour
20:00.59*** join/#utah etahhhh (N=etah52@c-24-10-167-25.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
20:35.46tensailevi: where's the rss link for your lisp blog?
20:36.20levitensai: It's http://lifeoflevi.com/blog/rss.xml
20:36.58tensaithx
21:07.26sjansenhttp://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20050809082902461
21:07.44Jayce^sjansen, and here I thought you were just getting worked up about not being able to go tomorrow
21:08.06sjansen~boot Jayce^
21:08.07ibotACTION says "boot to the head" to Jayce^ and knocks him over
21:12.21sjansen~punish Jayce^
21:12.21ibotACTION forces Jayce^ to install and use Suse
21:12.27sjansenha!
21:12.54sjansen~botsnack
21:12.54ibotaw, gee, sjansen
21:13.22sjansenyou deserved it for that one, ibot (although SUSE should be all caps)
21:14.15linuxalienbut but... SuSE is the awesomest!
21:16.37linuxalienhahaha
21:16.47linuxalienOk, ok.  I was just kidding!  I use Gentoo.
21:21.59linuxalienbbl
21:22.03*** join/#utah euler (n=euler@fitz.pnl.gov)
21:22.44Jayce^wow, and what a fall it was
21:25.13Maquis~lart Jayce^
21:28.01vontrapphey Maquis, don't pester the gentoo pesterers
21:28.10Jayce^Maquis, so, you should travel down for a day :)
21:28.51leviI'm pondering whether to drive down to UVSC tomorrow or not.
21:29.04vontrapplevi: where are you?
21:29.15leviI work at the point of the mountain.
21:29.25leviI live in Sandy, though.
21:29.28vontrappah, it's worth a 20 min drive
21:29.36leviWhat time is it at, again?
21:29.49Jayce^levi, very worth it
21:29.50leviI wonder how much of it will have applicability outside of Perl, though.
21:29.56Jayce^6:30
21:30.00Jayce^yes, it does
21:30.02leviAs you may recall, I'm not a huge Perl fan.
21:30.09Jayce^really? :)
21:30.20Jayce^no, this talk was picked for it's general applicability
21:30.21vontrappneither am i, but hey
21:30.57Jayce^besides, if you have *any* questions about perl6, this is your best chance to ask them
21:31.24teneI'll be going.
21:31.33leviI don't really know enough about the details of perl 6 to have any intelligent questions.
21:31.36teneI was going to go to that LUFS meeting, but my car exploded.
21:31.54vontrappo.0
21:32.05vontrappburning cars...
21:32.49levitene: You named your son Levi?
21:34.37teneeh?
21:34.45tenewhere would you get that idea?
21:34.54teneI don't have a son.
21:35.02leviHrm.
21:35.03Jayce^thank goodness.....
21:35.07leviOh, wrong t-person.
21:35.08Jayce^oh wait, did I say that?
21:35.26leviI was thinking tensai.
21:35.41teneyeah, we get mixed up a lot.
21:35.49leviYou guys need to differentiate your nicks a bit more. ;)
21:35.56eulerThere's no way I'd drive down to UVSC tomorrow, but then I don't live in Utah anymore either...
21:37.47MaquisJayce^: i'd like to travel down for a day
21:38.01teneYou should.
21:38.56leviSure, and blow half the money she's saved over the summer... ;)
21:39.35teneExactly.
21:40.08Maquiswhat the???
21:40.14Maquis~lart lenovo *again*
21:40.29Maquisi asked them when it would ship...
21:40.35Maquisthey said not for 3-4 weeks minimum
21:40.45Maquisso, i told them to ship to my apartment
21:40.49Maquisand it shipped today
21:41.08Maquisthey told me it would be 5-day shipping
21:41.20Maquisi look at the tracking info, and it's actually next-day shipping
21:41.35Maquis(the battery shipped.. .the computer hasn't shipped yet)
21:41.46leviHeh.
21:42.41MaquisNewsome: umm...
21:42.47Maquisdid OIT do anything stupid to phantom?
21:42.58Maquisuug.byu.edu doesn't appear to be loading
21:43.34Maquisphantom.byu.edu isn't loading either
21:44.21teneWhose day is it, then?
21:51.00NewsomeMaquis: No changes, but it looks like there's already another "phantom" in the department
21:51.29MaquisNewsome: we don't have a website now
21:52.14NewsomeMaquis: what IP does it give for phantom?
21:53.40vontrappi get not found for phantom and uug.byu.edu
21:54.40MaquisNewsome: i get not found
21:54.45Maquisfor both of them
21:58.54*** join/#utah spr (n=spr@c-24-10-237-76.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
21:59.00teneSo how do you specify an ascii character by its numeric equivalent in a regex?
21:59.46teneoh, nevermind
21:59.49Maquisspr: any ideas on what's going on with phantom?
21:59.50tene\0 or \x
22:00.15vontrappbut what if the string isn't encoded as ascii?
22:00.39NewsomeMaquis: looks like all (or most of) the *.byu.edu addresses got wiped from our subnets.
22:01.04vontrappstoopid oit
22:01.07NewsomeMaquis: I've added phantom and uug back, so it's a matter of waiting for the change to get propagated out to the DNS servers again
22:02.46graphyxhas anyone done asterisk configuration?
22:03.46vontrapp~configure Newsome
22:05.11hansgraphyx: yup
22:05.23graphyxhans who is your connection to asterisk?
22:05.43hansI learned about it from jsmith and his plug meeting
22:05.48graphyxyour upstrean provider...
22:05.54hansoh. nufone
22:06.18hansand until next week qwest through my fxo card.
22:06.26graphyxYou do AAH?
22:06.28graphyxasterisk at home?
22:06.36hansyessir
22:06.51graphyxOk I am trying to get our stuff set up right.
22:07.09graphyxWe get incoming calls over SIP
22:07.21graphyxAnd I am trying to figure where to put in the configuration that lines that will do after hours stuff.
22:07.22MaquisNewsome: thanks a ton!
22:07.34graphyxI thought I had it figured out until I started to mess with it and I don't know what I am doing.
22:07.49hansin the incoming context
22:07.58graphyxwould that be [incoming]?
22:08.07hanssorry, it's in the include statement itself I think
22:17.53Maquisso... what does UPS usually do if it tries to deliver a package that requires signature, and the person is a couple states away from where they're supposed to deliver to?
22:18.18Maquisand if that default behavior is not what i want them to do, is there a way to change the default behavior?
22:18.28misterpullMaquis... depends on the UPS guy.  Mine will leave the package with my neighbor
22:19.34Maquiseven if it requires a signature and is insured and all that?
22:19.41vontrapphow to pull the arp table off a swithc?
22:19.42misterpullin my case, yes.
22:20.59vontrappMaquis: they will just return it to the sender
22:21.04vontrappunless you tell them otherwise
22:21.28vontrappor if there's someone who knows you at the destination that can say it's not a wrong address
22:21.37vontrappso... how can i get this address?
22:21.47Maquisvontrapp: "tell them otherwise" elaborate?
22:23.17tenevontrapp: street address of a device?
22:23.19teneor what?
22:23.31vontrappip addr
22:24.21misterpullvontrapp:  what kind of switch?  on cisco I think it is just "show arp"
22:29.28Maquisvontrapp: so do i just call them and ask them to either hold it for me or give it to a friend of mine?
22:44.27hansusually they leave a notice if there's no answer at the door.
22:44.36hansif you can get someone to fill it out etc.
22:44.55hansif someone answers the door and say you don't live there... well that would be fun wouldn't it?
22:48.28vontrappyou can call up ups and see what they'll do for you
23:00.39*** join/#utah linuxalien (n=bastage@c-24-2-80-89.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
23:01.06sprok, I have a quick httpd question. I just upgraded to centos 4, and formerly had two entries like <VirtualHost *:80> with different documentroots and servernamesm and it worked
23:01.16sprnow it complains that I can't have two.
23:03.33shadoibefore it worked with both?
23:03.45shadoiseems like it may have just been picking the first or last one it found.
23:05.43*** part/#utah Newsome (N=sorenson@obelix.cs.byu.edu)
23:08.53sprshadoi, yeah, worked with both. What I'm looking for is spr.mahonri5.net to point to one place while mahonri5.net points to another
23:13.50sprhm looks like I must have had a NameVirtualHost in there somewhere
23:27.19shadoispr: each servername can have a documentroot
23:27.26shadoiyou don't need a separate virtualhost for each.
23:29.17sprhm, I'll keep that in mind, thanks
23:29.29shadoierr.. no I'm smoking crack, nevermind.
23:30.16spr:) I just got it working anyhow
23:30.16shadoiI was using mod_rewrite for that sort of thing.
23:50.23*** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@216-190-206-130.customer.csolutions.net)

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