| 00:01.51 | emcnabb | I'm getting 600 KB/sec download on my new DSL line |
| 00:02.24 | fungus | That's nice, but you picked a terrible ISP. |
| 00:03.08 | emcnabb | I don't care, as long as it's fast and reliable |
| 00:04.22 | fungus | But you had the choice to pick a good ISP. Why not pick xmission, or something that has more features/reliability? |
| 00:04.35 | emcnabb | what other features? |
| 00:05.08 | fungus | Does Qwest offer static IP blocks? for example. |
| 00:05.37 | fungus | *nix shell account? |
| 00:05.46 | emcnabb | I don't need that; I have a collocated server, and I can use dynamic DNS |
| 00:05.57 | emcnabb | I dont' need a shell account, I have my own boxes |
| 00:07.54 | fungus | Why limit your options? Unless Qwest is cheaper, then it might make sense. |
| 00:08.31 | emcnabb | $45 month (includes phone line) - 7168 Down / 896 Up Kbps |
| 00:08.47 | hans | a little bit cheaper. but remember this when qwest.net decides to block some IP or breaks something |
| 00:09.16 | hans | emcnabb: is that after fees? |
| 00:09.38 | emcnabb | . + tax |
| 00:10.03 | hans | fees on my 256k and phone add up to no less than $15 last I checked. |
| 00:10.11 | hans | and then tax |
| 00:10.53 | fungus | ok, cheaper makes sense. I'll shut up now. |
| 00:11.46 | emcnabb | I looked at what Xmission offered, but from what I could tell this would be faster and cheaper |
| 00:11.54 | emcnabb | I'll change if I can find a better deal |
| 00:12.08 | emcnabb | I'm in no way loyal to Qwest |
| 00:12.27 | fungus | Not faster. Xmission can use the same DSL Premier line. |
| 00:13.24 | emcnabb | how much could I get this connection for by the time you add the DSL line and ISP (with Xmission) |
| 00:13.25 | emcnabb | ? |
| 00:14.05 | dataw0lf- | emcnabb: fungus is just making his standard sales pitch. Disregard. |
| 00:14.31 | emcnabb | "There are three tier options from the local, Utah DSL carrier, Basic DSL is 256K download/256K upload speed, standard DSL is 1.5 Megabit download/ 896K upload speed and DSL Premier provides up to 7Megabit download / 896k upload. The DSL carrier charges $15 per month for the 256K line, $28 per month for the 1.5M line or $38 for up to 7M." |
| 00:14.39 | emcnabb | add the ISP cost to that |
| 00:14.42 | fungus | No, I just feel bad for the people who choose Qwest because they don't know better. |
| 00:14.48 | emcnabb | I know better |
| 00:14.52 | emcnabb | "better" |
| 00:14.53 | dataw0lf- | XMission still runs over Qwest. |
| 00:15.19 | emcnabb | I know people at Xmission, I've visited their facilites, etc |
| 00:15.36 | dataw0lf- | And I'm assuming, as emcnabb said, he doesn't need the extra features. And from the posts I've read on the ml(s), he seems like a smart guy, so I doubt he needs tech support |
| 00:16.09 | fungus | I am not *advertising* for Xmission. I am advertising for any ISP other than Qwest. |
| 00:16.47 | dataw0lf- | But I'm still confused on what besides services they offer. THEY'RE STILL USING QWEST PIPES. |
| 00:16.50 | emcnabb | like I said, if Xmission can give me a better deal I'll jump ship |
| 00:16.52 | fungus | and besides, if it was an advertisement, I would have mentioned ArosNet. :) |
| 00:17.05 | dataw0lf- | fungus: which my work is happy with ;) |
| 00:17.13 | emcnabb | dataw0lf-, I agree |
| 00:17.27 | dataw0lf- | ooh, someone agreed with me today. |
| 00:17.33 | emcnabb | haha |
| 00:17.40 | dataw0lf- | :-) |
| 00:17.45 | fungus | probably because Qwest makes it easy for ISPs to use their pipes to offer DSL. |
| 00:18.58 | fungus | I didn't know that Qwest was that much cheaper. |
| 00:19.05 | emcnabb | of course, after having my only home 'net access for a while be a PPP connection over my cell phone (via bluetooth), anything is better |
| 00:19.23 | dataw0lf- | emcnabb: haha |
| 00:19.27 | dataw0lf- | this is true. |
| 00:20.04 | fungus | Yikes, congrats on the upgrade. |
| 00:20.13 | emcnabb | well, time to unpack some boxes (the pains of moving) |
| 00:20.20 | dataw0lf- | have fun bro |
| 00:20.27 | javert42 | Find a good place for the clocks! |
| 00:21.08 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@216-190-206-130.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 00:21.09 | emcnabb | javert42, dang you!!! |
| 00:21.11 | emcnabb | :-) |
| 00:21.24 | emcnabb | when's your b-day? |
| 00:21.28 | emcnabb | I have something for you |
| 00:21.32 | javert42 | June 23rd |
| 00:21.33 | javert42 | :) |
| 00:21.37 | emcnabb | crap |
| 00:21.50 | javert42 | I'm sure you don't mind keeping it around till then, do you? |
| 00:22.41 | emcnabb | oh, you'll get an early present |
| 00:22.58 | Maquis | ~lart emcnabb |
| 00:22.59 | emcnabb | when I saw Amazon boxes from my computer friends, I was really excited... |
| 00:23.16 | javert42 | Just make sure you write "Rev. Topher" or "Dr. Topher" on the gift. |
| 00:23.58 | Maquis | emcnabb: how's lisa? |
| 00:24.26 | Newsome | emcnabb: get through the whole pile yet? |
| 00:24.53 | emcnabb | yeah, we did finally |
| 00:24.53 | emcnabb | :-) |
| 00:25.31 | Newsome | did you have to have the whole family watch, or were you able to do some of it without people watching? |
| 00:26.05 | emcnabb | the whole extended family was there |
| 00:28.32 | Maquis | hahaha |
| 00:31.39 | Maquis | Newsome: be nice to basilisk tonight, please :) |
| 00:32.24 | javert42 | Maquis: Actually basilisk is set to restart every 30 minutes as part of some hardware audits that we are doing. |
| 00:32.33 | javert42 | :) |
| 00:32.42 | Newsome | hopefully we won't have to make more changes anytime soon |
| 00:32.54 | Newsome | well, other than the hardware audits ;) |
| 00:33.56 | Newsome | as long as you haven't consumed your quota of bits for the day... |
| 00:34.28 | hans | emcnabb: I don't think you'll find xmission beating out qwest.net on price. qwest.net is pretty bare-bone from what I understand. I may actually go there when we go down to school |
| 00:34.47 | hans | but if you can afford the extra 10 or 15 bucks a month, xmission is definitely worth it. |
| 00:35.03 | Newsome | and if the computer gets overbalanced wrt ones & zeroes, we'll have to try to rebalance by sending extra bits. |
| 00:36.14 | javert42 | Does anybody know a good live CD that could help me with this: I have a laptop with a D-Link wireless card. Drivers are available, but the live CDs I've seen don't carry kernel source. |
| 00:39.14 | hans | what about a gentoo live cd? wouldn't that have source? |
| 00:44.14 | javert42 | Sounds like a good idea. I just found one called "dolphin". I'll try that. |
| 00:44.36 | emcnabb | hans, like I said, I'm open for change |
| 00:44.58 | emcnabb | I just haven't seen the need yet, but maybe I will |
| 00:46.18 | emcnabb | I've only had this phone line for a few days and I'm already getting telemarketers calling me |
| 00:46.23 | emcnabb | time to add it to the DNC list |
| 01:06.05 | scott | anyone know a keystroke to the edit formula box (where it shows what the cell really is) in excel? |
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| 01:14.43 | harleypig | http://www.doommovie.com YAY! |
| 01:15.04 | harleypig | It's got The Rock and it looks like it's Grade Z quality ... but |
| 01:15.07 | harleypig | IT"S DOOM! |
| 01:15.19 | dataw0lf- | true true |
| 01:15.49 | dataw0lf- | I'm more interested in the Halo movie that might or might not be coming out, however. |
| 01:21.10 | *** join/#utah spr (~spr@128.187.220.120) |
| 01:22.30 | *** join/#utah byronc (~byron@128.187.221.140) |
| 01:23.05 | *** topic/#utah by spr -> The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, uphpu.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com. See planetutah.adelantellc.com for aggregate feeds. || TimRiker has boxes in South Jordan. Holler if you want any. packing paper, etc too. | BYU UUG Meeting 8/4 at 7:30pm - Byron Clark will be presenting on FUSE |
| 01:27.53 | graphyx | Well I guess evveryone is at the meeting.. |
| 01:27.58 | graphyx | ~emulate gir |
| 01:27.58 | ibot | yay! |
| 01:39.30 | javert42 | It looks like Byron's been stripped of rank and title. |
| 01:40.44 | graphyx | On the topic? |
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| 01:54.53 | brailsmt | ever |
| 01:57.57 | brailsmt | i bought a 100GB hdd today... plugged it in, partitioned it into 10 10GB paritions and in 10 minutes I had 140GB... and who cared that itwas on two drives? very slick... i wish i had tried it before... |
| 01:58.41 | brailsmt | no building the filesystems, just extended the logical volumes and ran resize2fs and voila! |
| 02:00.38 | graphyx | How did you get 140GB? |
| 02:00.45 | brailsmt | oh, and the hdd was $30... |
| 02:00.46 | graphyx | Just merged the old drive in there as well? |
| 02:01.03 | brailsmt | graphyx: i already had a 40GB drive... |
| 02:01.12 | brailsmt | nearly full... |
| 02:01.46 | graphyx | fair nuf.. |
| 02:05.15 | brailsmt | anyway, i highly recommend lvm |
| 02:05.35 | graphyx | Is that a linux default? |
| 02:07.51 | graphyx | Ok I read up on it. |
| 02:07.53 | graphyx | Pretty cool. |
| 02:11.55 | brailsmt | no, not a default... I would rate an advanced concept, but one I wish I had known about long ago... |
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| 02:34.21 | graphyx | http://www.stuffonmycat.com/ |
| 02:34.26 | graphyx | If you are bored... |
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| 03:21.31 | Maquis | to the uug-ers out there: how'd the meeting go? |
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| 05:16.15 | Maquis | ~lart early mornings |
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| 14:44.17 | hans | ~seen jsmith |
| 14:44.19 | ibot | jsmith is currently on #asterisk-doc (12h 48m 43s). Has said a total of 1 messages. Is idling for 12h 48m 18s |
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| 14:45.48 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
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| 15:20.28 | Jayce^ | tunnels |
| 15:20.40 | graphyx | I use stunnel quite a lot |
| 15:20.56 | graphyx | But mainly for un-ssling http over ssl... |
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| 15:21.24 | sjansen | emcnabb: get to work |
| 15:21.33 | Jayce^ | I needed to double tunnel through some firewalls |
| 15:22.09 | graphyx | What a headache.. |
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| 15:23.50 | Maquis | ~work |
| 15:23.51 | ibot | from memory, work is punishment for failing to procrastinate effectively. |
| 15:26.24 | sjansen | heh, stuffonmycat.com just made all the work required to create the Internet worthwhile |
| 15:26.36 | emcnabb | http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/more/08/05/sex.sports.murder.ap/index.html?cnn=yes |
| 15:27.11 | emcnabb | there sure are some strange people in this world |
| 15:28.49 | sjansen | A cat with a NES Advantage on it! Now that's cool! |
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| 15:30.25 | emcnabb | sjansen, wow |
| 15:32.21 | sjansen | this was the most amazing shot: http://www.stuffonmycat.com/media/2/20050725-PEGGYSUE.jpg |
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| 15:38.35 | Jayce | oink |
| 15:38.44 | harleypig | *snort* |
| 15:39.21 | harleypig | how was oscon? |
| 15:39.29 | Jayce | dunno :) |
| 15:39.31 | Jayce | not there this year |
| 15:39.46 | harleypig | ? I thought ... but ... oh. |
| 15:40.10 | Jayce | huh? |
| 15:40.22 | Jayce | if I was there, I still would be :) |
| 15:40.42 | harleypig | Yeah. Although I seem to remember wireless networks being setup. |
| 15:40.58 | harleypig | and someone blogging from the sessions, |
| 15:41.20 | harleypig | So it didn't seem like much of a stretch ... |
| 15:43.27 | *** topic/#utah by sjansen -> The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, uphpu.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com. See planetutah.adelantellc.com for aggregate feeds. || TimRiker has boxes in South Jordan. Holler if you want any. packing paper, etc too. |
| 15:56.54 | graphyx | Is there any easy way to start to understand OSS projects? |
| 15:57.13 | graphyx | I want to take a look at apache for security code review, but I don't even know where to start.. |
| 15:57.14 | graphyx | Any ideas? |
| 15:57.45 | hans | main() |
| 15:57.50 | hans | cscope |
| 15:57.53 | harleypig | How much do you know about java? |
| 15:57.55 | hans | learn cscope/vim |
| 15:58.01 | Bradipo | graphyx: You might want to start on a smaller project. |
| 15:58.06 | hans | I have java in a nutshell, for what that's worth |
| 15:58.10 | graphyx | I have had classes in java and written code in java.. |
| 15:58.20 | graphyx | but most oss stuff is in C isn't it? |
| 15:58.31 | Bradipo | A lot of it is in C/C++ yes. |
| 15:58.32 | harleypig | ? no, it's in all kinds of languages. |
| 15:58.39 | harleypig | Checkout freshmeat.net |
| 15:58.47 | hans | well what is "it" |
| 15:58.52 | hans | I think he's talking about apache |
| 15:58.55 | Bradipo | harleypig: But Java isn't susceptible to security problems. ;-) |
| 15:58.57 | graphyx | Well I can handle c/c++ java perl, tcl, |
| 15:59.02 | harleypig | You can sort your searches based on what language the project is in. |
| 15:59.05 | harleypig | Bradipo: :D |
| 15:59.24 | graphyx | My intent was to learn how to exploit apache. |
| 15:59.32 | graphyx | by building a vulnerable function into it. |
| 15:59.43 | graphyx | And then crafting my own exploit for the problem I made.. |
| 16:00.02 | graphyx | But I don't know where in the 2.0.54 code base to look for where it handle's get requests and the like.. |
| 16:00.10 | harleypig | graphyx: Apache < 2.0 is written in C++ I belive (might be C), Apache >= 2.0 is written in java. |
| 16:00.17 | Bradipo | Haha. |
| 16:00.22 | Bradipo | I got a funny piece of spam today... |
| 16:00.26 | Bradipo | I just won the Microsoft Lotter. |
| 16:00.29 | Bradipo | Lottery. |
| 16:00.36 | Bradipo | Bill Gates: http://www.templetons.com/brad/gmap.gif |
| 16:00.36 | graphyx | harleypig: It is in c. |
| 16:00.40 | Bradipo | That was included in it. |
| 16:00.43 | graphyx | I have the source already. |
| 16:01.28 | graphyx | Bradipo: That's funny. |
| 16:02.09 | graphyx | hans: I know how to use vim. but I'll take a look at cscope |
| 16:02.33 | hans | that only works for C and somewhat for C++, though. |
| 16:03.11 | harleypig | graphyx: Thanks. |
| 16:04.07 | hans | this is great: http://www.cafepress.com/nucleartacos/317769 |
| 16:04.09 | harleypig | graphyx: You want to embed a function in the source then sploit that? Or you want to write a module that has a sploit? |
| 16:04.18 | graphyx | A web server written in java.. interesting idea, but I think the overhead of java would make it slow. |
| 16:04.27 | graphyx | I was looking to modify the source to be exploitable. |
| 16:04.29 | graphyx | and then exploit it. |
| 16:04.32 | Bradipo | I called the number on the spam. |
| 16:04.41 | graphyx | To learn how to better understand exploiting the services.. |
| 16:04.53 | Bradipo | This guy is for real. He said to forward the email to his email address and he will have his secretary verify my winnings tomorrow morning. |
| 16:05.44 | harleypig | Bradipo: Just save time ... give me your checking account and routing number. |
| 16:05.53 | graphyx | Did you put the return address as mailinator.com |
| 16:05.54 | graphyx | ? |
| 16:06.14 | Bradipo | Oh, I have no intentions on returning anything. |
| 16:06.58 | tensai | was it an 800 number? |
| 16:07.00 | Bradipo | harleypig: Actually, I was thinking of setting up a brand new account with no money in it. |
| 16:07.09 | graphyx | nice.. |
| 16:07.15 | Bradipo | An account that allows despits only. :-) |
| 16:07.26 | graphyx | You should to the scambaiters website. |
| 16:07.30 | Bradipo | tensai: It was not an 800 unfortunately. |
| 16:07.42 | harleypig | heh |
| 16:07.47 | graphyx | An entire group of people trying to trick scammers into sending them money and trying to get the arrested.. |
| 16:08.28 | graphyx | hans: how do I exit cscope? |
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| 16:08.32 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 16:09.17 | harleypig | graphyx: killall cscope? |
| 16:09.27 | harleypig | sorry. I'm tired. |
| 16:09.28 | graphyx | Yeah I did it the ugly way.. |
| 16:09.30 | hans | ctrl-d |
| 16:09.35 | graphyx | k thanks. |
| 16:11.06 | hans | ~killall harleypig |
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| 16:12.35 | vontrapp | hans: yeah, i want one of them shirts, or a sticker |
| 16:13.39 | graphyx | Is the MySQL is the winME of databases a common belief? |
| 16:13.47 | graphyx | ~MySQL |
| 16:13.47 | ibot | SQL (Structured Query Language) database server. URL: http://www.mysql.com/ |
| 16:14.47 | Jayce | graphyx, only to PG bigots :) |
| 16:15.59 | tene | graphyx: I've heard that belief several times. |
| 16:16.02 | tensai | yuck. I can't stand partisan talk shows. my co-worker listens to them *all day*. |
| 16:16.26 | tene | I don't think I've ever heard anyone express the belief that MySQL is the best, though. |
| 16:16.27 | Jayce | tensai, some are fun, some are frustrating |
| 16:16.46 | Jayce | tene, you work around fozz though, so that explains a lot |
| 16:16.46 | tene | Just kind of "well... it works okay for me..." |
| 16:16.48 | tensai | graphyx: I don't think that's fair. MySQL does what it says it does. It's not the same as PG or Oracle, but nobody who knows better claims it is. |
| 16:16.52 | tene | Heh. |
| 16:17.25 | tensai | WinME on the other hand isn't worth my time to dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda |
| 16:18.11 | tensai | Jayce: I'm not particularly interested in hearing people sound like idiots. and yell. and just generally make fun of people. |
| 16:18.36 | *** join/#utah sjansen (~sjansen@63.81.26.126) |
| 16:18.42 | tene | Jayce: want to know a secret about fozz? |
| 16:18.54 | *** join/#utah spr (~spr@c-24-10-237-76.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 16:19.05 | tene | He let clients run php/mysql sites on his servers. |
| 16:19.12 | tene | s/let/lets/ |
| 16:19.23 | tene | hiya |
| 16:19.28 | sjansen | Say hi to my class. |
| 16:19.50 | tene | If there's a class watching, I guess that's not a secret anymore... |
| 16:20.17 | Jayce | tene, tell him that's because he's a closet php user :) |
| 16:20.21 | Jayce | that'll get him mad |
| 16:20.41 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 16:21.42 | hans | graphyx: I was talking about the unicode shirt |
| 16:22.24 | tensai | hans: I thought those were pretty funny |
| 16:22.45 | hans | i try to stay out of database wars |
| 16:23.05 | tensai | I just try to be apologetic |
| 16:24.58 | hans | being apologetic makes me sick. All-out bigotry or nothing. |
| 16:25.18 | Jayce^ | hans, you've been studying under sjansen again haven't you? |
| 16:25.23 | tensai | hans: that's ok. I understand what you mean. It's ok. |
| 16:26.44 | goozbach | I'm not bigioted either... |
| 16:26.55 | goozbach | Caffiene is a way of life |
| 16:27.08 | hans | Jayce^: we're like a feedback lookp |
| 16:27.12 | hans | er, loop |
| 16:29.17 | *** topic/#utah by Jayce^ -> The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, uphpu.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com. See planetutah.adelantellc.com for aggregate feeds. || PLUG/NUPM/everybody else event, Wednesday the 10th, 6:30, UVSC CS-404 DAMIAN CONWAY |
| 16:34.02 | tensai | ~lart heart burn |
| 16:34.14 | hans | what I want to know is if he's related to Tim. |
| 16:34.34 | tensai | hans: I already tried that. seems nobody knows who Tim Conway is. |
| 16:34.47 | hans | nobody knows?! |
| 16:34.53 | tensai | nobody here but us |
| 16:34.59 | hans | Did nobody here watch scooby doo as kids? |
| 16:35.22 | hans | didn't he guest on there more than once? or was it just once. I don't know. |
| 16:35.25 | tensai | HOMER: What's a Tim Conway? TIM CONWAY: Oh, about 120 pounds. |
| 16:35.43 | hans | I know him from else, too |
| 16:37.50 | RyanE | you guys didn't watch Carol Burnett? |
| 16:38.27 | hans | pshaw |
| 16:38.43 | vontrapp | what is the port for webmin? |
| 16:38.55 | hans | 123561272 |
| 16:39.18 | tensai | vontrapp: 10000 |
| 16:39.21 | goozbach | 10000 I thought |
| 16:39.35 | tensai | RyanE: oh yeah, good ole Carol Burnett |
| 16:39.45 | goozbach | ohh nm it's vim <insert config file here> |
| 16:39.49 | goozbach | :) |
| 16:48.36 | sjansen | Jayce^: Any chance you could get Damian to reschedule to Saturday so that I can be there? |
| 16:55.32 | hans | maybe he will give you a private lesson |
| 17:04.41 | Jayce^ | sjansen, none whatsoever |
| 17:04.48 | Jayce^ | going out of town 'eh :) |
| 17:08.04 | goozbach | he IS out of town |
| 17:08.13 | goozbach | and will continue to be out of town |
| 17:08.16 | Jayce^ | yeah, but next week |
| 17:08.16 | Jayce^ | ah |
| 17:08.18 | goozbach | sucker! |
| 17:08.22 | goozbach | :P |
| 17:08.25 | Jayce^ | hehe.. serves him right |
| 17:08.30 | Jayce^ | you going out gooz? |
| 17:08.41 | goozbach | I'll be back by wed afternoon |
| 17:08.45 | goozbach | I'm gonna be there |
| 17:08.45 | Jayce^ | cool |
| 17:08.55 | goozbach | I wannna win some swag |
| 17:08.59 | Jayce^ | if nothing else, you can rub it in sjansens nose :) |
| 17:09.15 | goozbach | oh yeah!!! |
| 17:09.37 | goozbach | http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=3&id=345527 |
| 17:09.40 | goozbach | kidbeer |
| 17:09.54 | goozbach | another fine WTF brought to you by goozbach |
| 17:13.35 | harleypig | Someone was telling me about distilling your own spirits the other day. At the same time I happened to be looking at the opencola page. Inspiration struck. |
| 17:13.37 | harleypig | Pepsi 101 |
| 17:13.44 | harleypig | 101 Proof Pepsi. |
| 17:13.58 | harleypig | alchohol, carbon dioxide and caffeine ... all in one drink. |
| 17:14.47 | harleypig | But it by the 6pack! |
| 17:16.30 | goozbach | ohh... |
| 17:18.24 | goozbach | harleypig: if you add some glowsticks in it you could make caffinated glowpepsi. |
| 17:18.46 | Jayce^ | now that's the *last* thing soda companies need to pick up on |
| 17:21.09 | harleypig | Glow in the dark cans and bottles. |
| 17:21.19 | harleypig | Oooh ... glow in the dark bubbles. |
| 17:21.43 | Jayce^ | harleypig, keep your gas outta the channel :) |
| 17:21.52 | harleypig | The walls! The WALLS ARE BREATHING! |
| 17:22.14 | Jayce^ | ok, who gave him stamps... |
| 17:22.18 | harleypig | Speaking of which: The Rock is Sarge in DOOM! |
| 17:22.35 | harleypig | Looks like a grade z flick but who cares! |
| 17:23.36 | Bradipo | News just in... there is a new International Symbol for marriage: http://www.glowfoto.com/viewimage.php?img=23-112705L&y=2005&m=06&t=jpg&rand=2613 |
| 17:24.09 | harleypig | :D |
| 17:26.31 | vontrapp | grrrr, i hate web forms that don't take + in the email address!!! |
| 17:27.50 | Bradipo | vontrapp: Switch to - :-) |
| 17:28.04 | tensai | well, this can't be good. http://news.com.com/2061-10785_3-5820294.html |
| 17:28.52 | vontrapp | what's the email address RFC? |
| 17:29.02 | tensai | 822 |
| 17:29.32 | Bradipo | + is allowed as per the RFC. |
| 17:30.59 | Bradipo | tensai: Why do you think it isn't good? |
| 17:31.38 | hans | imagine the whole world on msn prmium or qwest.net |
| 17:31.39 | tensai | if DSL ends up like cable where I don't have a choice in ISP that's bad. I don't want Qwest as my ISP. |
| 17:31.57 | Jayce^ | especially working for an isp :) |
| 17:32.11 | tensai | Jayce^: yes, there's that too ;) |
| 17:32.31 | Bradipo | Yeah, that could be a bad thing. |
| 17:32.34 | Jayce^ | one of the reasons we're staying out of the DSL business |
| 17:32.46 | Bradipo | I still wonder when I will have a choice of DSL providers. |
| 17:33.06 | Bradipo | Sorry, a cost effective choice. |
| 17:34.46 | *** join/#utah dataw0lf (~dataw0lf@66.219.227.114) |
| 17:34.50 | vontrapp | Bradipo: i'd like to, but what about all the other addresses with a + out there already? they would break |
| 17:35.04 | Bradipo | vontrapp: Oh, I was joking. Clearly you should be able to use + |
| 17:35.24 | vontrapp | should be able to, but reality is more than half the time you can't |
| 17:35.37 | Bradipo | And yes, there are many sites that are broken when it comes to handling email in many respects. |
| 17:36.05 | Bradipo | I think the caliber of programmers involved in writing software that uses email have gone down. |
| 17:36.13 | vontrapp | actually, i would probably change to '.' or something, per hans' implementing, of course |
| 17:36.38 | Bradipo | Lately I have seen many more cases of bare linefeeds (strictly prohibited in RFC 2821) than I ever have in 5 years. |
| 17:38.36 | vontrapp | there's you bear lion feed |
| 17:42.05 | vontrapp | can you modify an incoming address before processing with postfix? |
| 17:43.09 | vontrapp | e.g. s/+/s/ |
| 17:43.15 | vontrapp | er, s/+/./ |
| 17:43.51 | Bradipo | You can modify postfix to use a different separator. :-) |
| 17:44.43 | Bradipo | qmail uses - which I believe is more sensible. I haven't ever heard of problems where - is used as the separator, but those involving + are innumerable. |
| 17:44.48 | vontrapp | yeah, but this is so postfix will, after using . as seperator, will take foo+bar@example.com and change it to foo.bar@example.com before trying to send it, and thus sendint it to actual foo@example.com |
| 17:46.17 | vontrapp | does that make sense? |
| 17:46.43 | Bradipo | You are saying that you want to use foo.bar as a local part, but have postfix convert it to foo+bar before delivery? |
| 17:46.45 | vontrapp | i don't see why it can't have multiple seperators. |
| 17:47.22 | Bradipo | postfix may be able to use multiple separators. |
| 17:47.31 | vontrapp | no, i want foo+bar delivered to local to be changed to foo.bar before parsing, effectively make foo+bar equivelent to foo.bar |
| 17:48.14 | Bradipo | I read it the other way around because you are having problems with foo+bar (in web form) and thought you wanted to use foo.bar (wouldn't have problems in web forms). |
| 17:48.25 | vontrapp | yes |
| 17:49.31 | vontrapp | but, i already have, say, von+plug and i want to still receive emails to that address, after changing to . that address will break. |
| 17:49.45 | Bradipo | So, you *are* planning on changing the separator? |
| 17:49.56 | Bradipo | Why not just leave foo+bar in place and make foo.bar an alias or something? |
| 17:50.10 | Bradipo | That way you can leave . as the separator. |
| 17:50.17 | Bradipo | Er + as the separator. |
| 17:50.23 | vontrapp | cause i make up the portion after the seperator willy nilly |
| 17:50.36 | Bradipo | I realize that. |
| 17:50.40 | vontrapp | i don't want to always be making aliases |
| 17:50.49 | Bradipo | I see. |
| 17:50.59 | Bradipo | Well foo+bar really is a user alias. |
| 17:51.06 | Bradipo | It is an alias that belongs to the user foo. |
| 17:51.20 | vontrapp | but it's an automatic alias |
| 17:51.46 | Bradipo | You should be able to do multiple separators in postfix. |
| 17:51.51 | Bradipo | I haven't ever done it, I don't use postfix. |
| 17:52.13 | vontrapp | is 'seperator' the official term? |
| 17:52.26 | Bradipo | I know it could be done in qmail, and postfix's author did base a lot of his design on qmail. |
| 17:52.52 | Bradipo | Not sure if it is the official term. |
| 17:53.02 | Bradipo | extension might be more appropriate. |
| 17:53.05 | vontrapp | i tried putting "+." in the postfix config, that cause an error |
| 17:53.16 | vontrapp | i tried defining it twice, it only used the second definition |
| 17:53.38 | vontrapp | postfix calls it <something>delimiter |
| 17:53.40 | *** join/#utah wps (~wade@66.237.80.85) |
| 17:54.00 | vontrapp | recipient_delimiter |
| 17:54.52 | Bradipo | Does postfix have any way of controlling user deliveries? |
| 17:56.08 | Bradipo | I mean, not user deliveries, but assigning (aka mapping) email addresses to users? |
| 18:00.28 | *** join/#utah spr_ (~spr@c-24-10-237-76.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 18:00.55 | *** join/#utah tene_ (~tene@c-67-182-199-40.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 18:00.57 | vontrapp | don't know |
| 18:16.46 | Maquis | hmmm |
| 18:17.12 | vontrapp | ~lart Maquis |
| 18:24.06 | dataw0lf | synic: guess who's getting a lowkey picture tonight? |
| 18:29.02 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@obelix.cs.byu.edu) |
| 18:32.13 | tensai | Newsome: how did you manage to keep a public IP address? I would have thought OIT would have forced a NAT on you. |
| 18:33.39 | Newsome | we haven't completed moving everything over yet |
| 18:34.20 | Newsome | We're still in the process of putting everything on the private addresses and doing the NAT thing |
| 18:34.57 | tensai | yuck. well, have fun with that. so even though byu has a /16 they feel the need to nat everything? |
| 18:35.54 | Newsome | Yep. We're moving from 8 /24 subnets down to 2 |
| 18:37.00 | vontrapp | that must hurt |
| 18:37.15 | tensai | nothing you can do? |
| 18:38.23 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (~bastage@c-24-2-80-89.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 18:39.34 | Newsome | Well, we might be able to keep addresses on the public subnets, but we have had some problems with professors leaving old, unpatched Windows boxes out on the internet. We might as well take the chance to blame OIT and push them to private IPs. |
| 18:40.08 | Newsome | So, I'm not fighting OIT very hard. |
| 18:43.41 | tensai | my $count = "zero"; |
| 18:43.41 | tensai | while(<>) { |
| 18:43.41 | tensai | if ($count eq "zero") { |
| 18:43.41 | tensai | $count = "one"; |
| 18:43.41 | tensai | } |
| 18:43.42 | tensai | elsif ($count eq "one") { |
| 18:43.44 | tensai | exit; |
| 18:43.46 | tensai | } |
| 18:43.48 | tensai | } |
| 19:04.21 | sjansen | tensai, didn't you know? natting increases security |
| 19:04.31 | sjansen | it obscures ip addresses |
| 19:04.47 | sjansen | and relying on obscure security is a Good Thing(tm) |
| 19:06.07 | graphyx | It doesn't obscure ip addresses.. |
| 19:06.22 | graphyx | It just makes it so that you have to hop off of a public ip to get to the private itps |
| 19:06.26 | graphyx | Such as the firewall. |
| 19:06.39 | graphyx | If they can't get on the firewall they have a much harder time connecting to ports to exploit them. |
| 19:06.51 | graphyx | Mind you I am not saying impossible... just harder. |
| 19:09.15 | tensai | graphyx: it does obscure the address. you can't tell me what IP address I'm on without breaking into my firewall, as you say. |
| 19:09.43 | tensai | security wise it's no different than having a decently written firewall policy |
| 19:10.16 | graphyx | Ok well sure it does obscure it.. |
| 19:10.20 | graphyx | but that isn't the protection.. |
| 19:10.42 | tensai | well, you said "It doesn't obscure ip addresses" |
| 19:11.21 | graphyx | Perhaps what I meant to say would be is that the ip address being obscured isn't where the security comes from. |
| 19:11.42 | tensai | well then, we're arguing the same point |
| 19:12.00 | sjansen | graphyx: you apparently missed my sarcasm |
| 19:13.20 | tensai | sjansen: I, on the other hand, always assume that every word out of your mouth is dripping with sarcasm |
| 19:13.35 | sjansen | you wound me |
| 19:13.44 | tensai | see, there you go again |
| 19:13.59 | sjansen | behind most sarcasm is a kernel of truth |
| 19:15.03 | tensai | or is it the Colonel of Truth? |
| 19:15.34 | sjansen | at any rate, I'm still trying to parse "security wise it's no different than having a decently written firewall policy" |
| 19:15.57 | sjansen | you know enough about networking to know that isn't true, so I'm must be missing some context |
| 19:16.31 | tensai | a firewall with a proper ruleset can provide just as much security as a nat firewall |
| 19:17.23 | *** join/#utah garyt_ (~gthornock@translate.sento.com) |
| 19:17.31 | sjansen | you mean nat + firewall? |
| 19:17.39 | graphyx | Cause if you map the ports to the services on the machine you are vulnerable anyway... |
| 19:17.40 | graphyx | YEah.. sounds like it. |
| 19:17.40 | graphyx | Should we argue the same side of something else now? |
| 19:17.40 | graphyx | less filling!!! |
| 19:17.52 | sjansen | because relying on nat alone doesn't give much protection |
| 19:18.51 | tensai | sjansen: yeah, ok. I'm assuming nat + firewall with a default policy of disallow inbound. |
| 19:19.40 | sjansen | anywho... |
| 19:19.56 | sjansen | I recently found out that emcnabb's new wife, Lisa, really likes fruit bowls. |
| 19:20.10 | sjansen | They're accepting fruit bowls if you want to send a wedding gift. |
| 19:20.13 | emcnabb | and clocks |
| 19:20.18 | emcnabb | we have LOTS of clocks |
| 19:21.11 | sjansen | Maybe #utah would be willing to start a pool and buy them a fruit bowl with a clock in it. |
| 19:21.20 | emcnabb | ~lart sjansen |
| 19:22.04 | hans | how many pizza stones did you get? |
| 19:22.13 | hans | in the 70s, you would have gotten 2.5 fondue pots |
| 19:22.55 | sjansen | Part of the problem was that he registered for three different bowls at Bed, Bath & Beyond. |
| 19:23.34 | emcnabb | and that's about how many we were interested in having |
| 19:23.41 | emcnabb | we ended up geting 10+ |
| 19:23.46 | sjansen | Unlike Target, BB&B didn't have an indicator of whether anyone else had already purchased one. |
| 19:24.10 | emcnabb | hans, no pizza stones |
| 19:24.26 | sjansen | Which kinda kills to point of a wedding registry if you ask me. |
| 19:24.31 | emcnabb | I agree |
| 19:25.33 | hans | i dont' seem to remember getting any punch bowls. |
| 19:27.08 | *** topic/#utah by sjansen -> The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, uphpu.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com. See planetutah.adelantellc.com for aggregate feeds. || PLUG/UVLUG/NUPM/everybody else event, Wednesday the 10th, 6:30, UVSC CS-404 DAMIAN CONWAY |
| 19:28.55 | *** join/#utah wps (~wade@66.237.80.85) |
| 19:49.33 | *** join/#utah fungus_ (~fungus@fungus.air.aros.net) |
| 19:54.02 | *** join/#utah jsmith (~jsmith@64.50.35.114.2O7.net) |
| 19:56.17 | Maquis | my parents got 5 fondue pots when they got married |
| 19:57.12 | Maquis | sjansen: last i checked (a week ago), bb&b did tell how many had been bought as well as how many were wanted |
| 19:59.42 | Maquis | emcnabb: just return the extras |
| 20:00.19 | Jayce^ | ahh returns... |
| 20:00.34 | Maquis | if you're registered and the item is in the registry, most places (i believe bed, bath and beyond is this way) doesn't require a receipt, and they'll give you cash back |
| 20:02.56 | emcnabb | Maquis, we did |
| 20:03.04 | Maquis | emcnabb: good :) |
| 20:03.09 | emcnabb | Jayce^, that's what we did last night |
| 20:03.25 | Jayce^ | you get so frustrated trying to figure them out.. |
| 20:03.28 | Jayce^ | winds up working much better |
| 20:03.33 | emcnabb | yeah |
| 20:03.42 | Jayce^ | "just keep scanning lady, you'll take *something* out of the pile" |
| 20:03.49 | emcnabb | haha |
| 20:04.34 | emcnabb | I have some pictures of the geek corner of the reception |
| 20:05.05 | Jayce^ | first time I've been at a reception where I didn't feel out of place :) |
| 20:05.14 | Jayce^ | (and yes, the groom always feels out of place) |
| 20:05.23 | hans | amen |
| 20:05.35 | Jayce^ | too bad hans came late :) |
| 20:05.42 | hans | you left early |
| 20:05.46 | Jayce^ | kids |
| 20:05.49 | hans | there was plenty of fun to be had after you left |
| 20:05.58 | Jayce^ | not with cranky kids there wasn't |
| 20:06.12 | hans | it's always fun to bash OIT |
| 20:06.25 | Maquis | emcnabb: you putting up pictures from the wedding and everything? |
| 20:07.07 | emcnabb | whenever I needed a boost of geekiness, you guys were there for me |
| 20:07.21 | emcnabb | thanks |
| 20:08.04 | Maquis | emcnabb: i still want to meet lisa sometime |
| 20:08.51 | emcnabb | http://evan.mcnabbs.org/tmp/img_0392.jpg |
| 20:08.54 | hans | yeah, receptions are pretty normalizing |
| 20:08.56 | emcnabb | here are the penguins |
| 20:09.59 | emcnabb | http://evan.mcnabbs.org/tmp/img_0406.jpg |
| 20:10.08 | emcnabb | this is before a lot of people got there |
| 20:11.21 | Maquis | emcnabb: those are great penguins |
| 20:11.23 | emcnabb | http://evan.mcnabbs.org/tmp/img_0463.jpg |
| 20:11.42 | emcnabb | and here's more of the crowd |
| 20:12.31 | vontrapp | Maquis: they tasted good, too |
| 20:12.46 | vontrapp | i had those very penguins somewhere else once, can't remember what it was |
| 20:13.33 | emcnabb | http://appetizer.allrecipes.com/az/CrmChsPngins.asp |
| 20:14.09 | emcnabb | if you're interested in making them sometime (it's not like you couldn't have figured it out) |
| 20:15.44 | Maquis | emcnabb: cool |
| 20:16.00 | Maquis | if i get really bored some time i might just make them for some uug meeting or something |
| 20:23.42 | *** join/#utah flyfisher (~mike@translate.sento.com) |
| 20:26.17 | tensai | Jayce^: that's what we did too. hopped from store to store with armfuls of stuff until only the real junk was left. |
| 20:27.26 | *** join/#utah gthornock (~gthornock@translate.sento.com) |
| 20:35.07 | tensai | anybody tried out gizmo? |
| 20:40.27 | tene | gizmo? |
| 20:40.38 | *** join/#utah RyanE_ (~ryan@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 20:41.48 | tensai | gizmoproject.com. a skype alternative |
| 20:43.32 | Maquis | #$@#$^#$@^ |
| 20:49.35 | *** join/#utah fungus (~fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 20:51.05 | tene | Yay! |
| 20:51.28 | vontrapp | don't you love it when it's not your fault? |
| 21:00.15 | Maquis | vontrapp: to some degree... |
| 21:00.27 | Maquis | but it gets annoying too |
| 21:04.38 | Maquis | what the? |
| 21:05.35 | graphyx | I think I prefer it when nobody messes up... |
| 21:06.05 | jsmith | I prefer it when I mess up, so that I can learn something. |
| 21:06.14 | hans | not to mention fix it |
| 21:06.33 | hans | I hate it when someone who isn't available or willing to fix it messes up. |
| 21:07.08 | Maquis | this one item refuses to update |
| 21:07.13 | Maquis | all the others update just fine now |
| 21:13.47 | Maquis | bah |
| 21:13.53 | Maquis | stupid details that nobody's told me yet |
| 21:31.38 | hans | ~howl |
| 21:33.21 | Maquis | ~growl |
| 21:33.21 | ibot | ACTION growls as loud as a storm and screams "I'LL CRUSH WHOEVER GETS IN MY WAY!!!" |
| 21:54.19 | *** join/#utah wps (~wade@66.237.80.85) |
| 21:55.38 | hans | ~spell idiosynchrasies |
| 21:56.15 | xbmodder | ~spell ibot |
| 21:57.25 | Maquis | ~spell maquis |
| 21:58.23 | vontrapp | ~spell hans |
| 21:58.40 | vontrapp | Khaaaaan!!! |
| 22:00.00 | lars-ut | happy Friday! |
| 22:05.41 | lars-ut | ~spell lars |
| 22:06.01 | lars-ut | ~anagram lars |
| 22:06.09 | tensai | ~lart syntax errors |
| 22:07.36 | vontrapp | if ($count eq "five") print("Right out"); |
| 22:16.53 | xbmodder | people are not very nice to linuxers |
| 22:21.00 | *** join/#utah dataw0lf (~dataw0lf@66.219.227.114) |
| 22:28.16 | hans | xbmodder: who/ |
| 22:48.13 | *** part/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@obelix.cs.byu.edu) |
| 22:58.35 | Maquis | one of the guys came to me to ask a bunch of questions that i was able to answer by using view source |
| 22:58.54 | Maquis | i didn't know the answers before he asked... but hey... i got the answers for him... |
| 23:03.41 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (~bastage@c-24-2-80-89.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 23:12.00 | jsmith | Maquis: Isn't that the difference between most smart peopel and most less-smart people? The ability to go figure it out? |
| 23:12.10 | *** join/#utah markl_ (mark@dsl093-225-013.slc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 23:19.35 | jsmith | linuxalien: Don't eat too much... |
| 23:20.27 | vontrapp | how to make php drop insignificant digits (trailing 0's)... |
| 23:20.43 | jsmith | vontrapp: number_format()? |
| 23:21.35 | vontrapp | hmm, that just cut off everything after . |
| 23:22.31 | hans | www.phdcomics.com |
| 23:22.39 | hans | my new favorite comic strip |
| 23:23.07 | jsmith | vontrapp: You have to tell it how many digits you want to the right of the decimal... |
| 23:23.35 | vontrapp | but i want to the last nonzero digit, whatever that may be |
| 23:24.18 | hans | write a function |
| 23:26.57 | jsmith | vontrapp: preg_replace('/0*$/','',$badly_formatted_number); |
| 23:32.19 | vontrapp | ah, floatval($dumbnum) does it |
| 23:33.05 | vontrapp | i guess the problem was it was some kind of psuedo php number string thingy |
| 23:52.26 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@216-190-206-130.customer.csolutions.net) |
