| 00:10.42 | bonez41 | hans, who's the ISP? |
| 00:34.14 | Maquis | spr: what's happening, then? |
| 00:35.54 | Maquis | i was very concerned that i had killed phantom |
| 00:35.59 | Maquis | completely and utterly |
| 00:37.48 | bonez41 | how was church, Maquis? |
| 01:17.54 | *** join/#utah JoshH (~josh@josh.dsl.aros.net) |
| 01:42.32 | levi | Mmm, homemade ginger ale. |
| 01:52.14 | mrpull | levi: niiice. what goes into a ginger ale? |
| 01:53.21 | Maquis | bonez41: it was good |
| 01:53.35 | Maquis | mrpull: throw the grenade |
| 01:53.54 | levi | mrpull: Ginger. |
| 01:54.14 | levi | You grate it up, infuse some water with it, add sugar... voila, ginger ale syrup. |
| 01:54.49 | mrpull | Maquis: heheh.... not _that_ type of pin |
| 01:55.02 | mrpull | and for the bubbles? |
| 01:55.17 | levi | Club soda. |
| 01:56.48 | mrpull | levi: I see. I'm a regular Pepsi guy. |
| 01:57.58 | levi | You can also make the bubbles with yeast, but then you get a tiny bit of alcohol, too. |
| 01:59.01 | levi | You'd have to drink a gallon or more to get a buzz, but it's still there. |
| 01:59.41 | Maquis | :) |
| 02:00.08 | mrpull | heh... while I don't usually drink alchohol, isn't that like avoiding a teaspoon of cough syrup? |
| 02:00.09 | levi | (Not that it would keep me from trying some.) |
| 02:00.46 | levi | Probably less alcohol than a teaspoon of cough syrup. |
| 02:01.50 | mrpull | whoa. i just learned a lot more about ginger than I _really_ wanted to on wikipedia. |
| 02:02.17 | levi | There's probably just as much alchohol in the kefir stuff my wife makes. |
| 02:03.05 | Maquis | so, pretty soon, i'm planning to have a temporary spare box with which to "play" for a bit... i'd like to give a few other distros a try before i sell the box... aside from ubuntu, suse, and possibly NLD, what are some of the distros that people would recommend? i was thinking of giving sorererlinux a swing, since it sounds like something that'd be fun to try, but not as practical for everyday use... |
| 02:03.58 | mrpull | Maquis: at some point each of the distros start feeling the same. have you ever tinkered with the *bsd's? |
| 02:06.18 | Maquis | mrpull: no... i should try one of them out, though :) |
| 02:08.31 | mrpull | i suppose you might learn a bit from sorcerer...maybe not if you are familiar with gentoo |
| 02:08.50 | mrpull | solaris x86 might be of interest too |
| 02:11.18 | mrpull | Maquis: what distro do you normally run? |
| 02:15.23 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@216-190-206-130.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 02:22.17 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (~bastage@c-24-2-80-89.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 02:31.51 | Maquis | mrpull: gentoo |
| 02:32.08 | Maquis | solaris could be interesting... |
| 02:34.10 | levi | Gah. I need a UPS. |
| 02:37.53 | mrpull | demoing bsd is interesting because it doesn't (in general) use the GNU utilities you are used to |
| 02:38.44 | linuxalien | BSD is evil! Windows is our savior! Down with linux! Oh wait, nevermind... I just found my sanity. Long live Linus! |
| 02:39.18 | mrpull | linuxalien: Windows can be fun if the project is big enough |
| 02:40.00 | linuxalien | I like windows for gaming sometimes...but if they have a linux port, I get better framerates in linux. For example, doom3 runs much better in my Gentoo than in windows. It's weird cuz most hardware is designed for windows. |
| 02:40.27 | mrpull | consider the amount of tuning you have put into your gentoo install |
| 02:40.53 | mrpull | have you put that much effort into your windows settings? |
| 02:41.05 | linuxalien | It even ran better in Fedora. I tried that for a while and then ditched it cuz FC4 didn't like my printer drivers. |
| 02:41.27 | linuxalien | mrpull: Nopers...just the latest drivers for nvidia and close down any programs I don't need that may be running |
| 02:42.26 | levi | I've not been convinced that Gentoo's 'tuning' actually has any performance benefit. And whatever it is, it's offset by the huge amount of time it takes to compile everything. |
| 02:42.37 | mrpull | levi: Amen :) |
| 02:43.03 | mrpull | I think the greatest benefit of gentoo is not running unneeded daemons |
| 02:43.22 | mrpull | and that can be accomplished on any distro pretty easily |
| 02:43.43 | linuxalien | levi: Mine usually doesn't take that long to compile and I've only got a AMD XP 2600+ with 512mb of RAM. However, RPMS and whatnot install way faster. The reason I chose Gentoo was customizing, large package availability, free cost, and it's still better than windows. |
| 02:44.37 | levi | I think the primary benefit of Gentoo is giving Linux newbies a sense of accomplishment because they 'built everything from source!' |
| 02:45.55 | *** join/#utah jsmith (~jsmith@smithfam.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 02:45.58 | mrpull | heh.... I felt a sense of accomplishment when I got gentoo running, and I'd been using linux for years before it came into fashion |
| 02:46.01 | levi | Nevermind the fact that all they had to do was type a couple of commands from a script... |
| 02:46.51 | mrpull | levi: whenever I feel the urge to try gentoo "one more time" I think... |
| 02:47.00 | mrpull | "WHY cant this be scripted?" |
| 02:47.10 | linuxalien | I used to be a Mandrake user. I was all point and click. My brother talked me into using it (pestered me and stuff) and I actually learned to compile a kernel for the first time and get a bit more comfy with the command line. |
| 02:47.12 | levi | I felt a sense of annoyance over all the lost time when I finally got my gentoo system compiled. |
| 02:49.01 | levi | Building Gentoo is nothing compared to, say, converting an old Slackware system from a.out to ELF. |
| 02:49.05 | mrpull | gentoo is a novelty distro for me... i'd never use it in production, but I have used it to tinker with distcc and a couple other toys |
| 02:50.16 | levi | Or building a pre-1.0 Linux kernel on a 486sx/20. |
| 02:50.42 | linuxalien | Well, everyone has their own preference. That's what's nice about linux...plenty to choose from. |
| 02:51.14 | levi | At least the popularity of gentoo seems to be waning to saner levels. |
| 02:53.53 | mrpull | linuxalien: that is true. it is about choice. |
| 02:54.06 | mrpull | linuxalien: I didn't intend to call you out :) |
| 02:54.13 | linuxalien | hehe ok cool :) |
| 02:56.10 | mrpull | in fact, I was trying to argue that Windows is cool and didn't get the angry responses I'd hoped for :) |
| 02:57.07 | linuxalien | Oh hahaha! Hey! Burn! Witch! He turned me into a newt! |
| 03:01.01 | linuxalien | :) |
| 03:03.42 | jsmith | Hmmmn... Exchange... that'll get a reaction! |
| 03:04.12 | linuxalien | burn burn burn!!! |
| 03:07.26 | mrpull | in all seriousness, the Exch2K3's webmail is very good |
| 03:08.19 | jsmith | mrpull: Yeah, as long as you're using IE as your browser. |
| 03:08.37 | jsmith | mrpull: Under any other browser (Firefox, Opera, Safari, etc.) it doesn't work very well at all. |
| 03:08.45 | mrpull | jsmith: it works, just not as slick. |
| 03:09.04 | jsmith | mrpull: OK, try to modify a rule from within Firefox. |
| 03:09.11 | Maquis | and the fact that it doesn't try to install a desktop for me |
| 03:09.19 | jsmith | mrpull: Or try searching for a message... |
| 03:10.35 | mrpull | the fact that I can VPN+RDP to the fat client makes me not worry too much about OWA's shortcommings |
| 03:10.57 | linuxalien | :) |
| 03:12.34 | jsmith | mrpull: And the fact that I can SSH into my Linux box and read my messages in vi doesn't make we worry about OWA's shortcomings either :-) |
| 03:12.46 | mrpull | jsmith: Good call! |
| 03:13.03 | jsmith | mrpull: VPN+RDP is, obviously, a hack. |
| 03:13.24 | jsmith | mrpull: Especially if you're in a low-bandwidth situation, and you have a lot of control over your network environment. |
| 03:14.19 | mrpull | jsmith: a hack? other than the DOS vulnerability that was just published ( ;-) ) what is wrong with RDP? |
| 03:14.36 | jsmith | High-bandwidth. |
| 03:14.47 | mrpull | i've got plenty of bandwidth to spare :) |
| 03:15.06 | jsmith | I guess I'm jaded because most of the time I have to connect to a VPN, VNC to a Windows box, then RDP from there. |
| 03:15.46 | jsmith | There's nothing "wrong" with RDP per-se, it's just the whole concept of it being about the only way to do administrative tasks on a remote windows box that bothers me |
| 03:16.01 | mrpull | i have to VPN to the machines I admin anyway |
| 03:16.24 | mrpull | my real gripe with RDP is the artificial 2 login limit |
| 03:16.41 | jsmith | That's fine... I have no problems with VPNs either -- it's just having to jump through a lot of hoops to do basic tasks. |
| 03:16.49 | mrpull | other than that, it works better than VNC, and arguably better than remote X for my purposes |
| 03:17.59 | jsmith | Works better than VNC for me too, when I use it. |
| 03:18.18 | jsmith | I'm just glad I don't have to do much Windows administration... |
| 03:18.41 | mrpull | with the right toolbox, you can do most 2k3 admin from the command line |
| 03:18.51 | mrpull | what cant you do? there probably is a way. |
| 03:19.29 | jsmith | Check the number of messages in a particular queue? |
| 03:19.50 | jsmith | Add people to an email group? |
| 03:20.24 | jsmith | And it's not just doing those things from the command-line -- it's being able to get to the command line easily |
| 03:20.51 | jsmith | I detest the fact that I have to use RDP (and waste a ton of bandwidth on graphics!) just to get a remote command line. |
| 03:21.21 | jsmith | Now I'm sure I could hack Cygwin or Unix Services onto Exchange and make it work that way, but that's another topic for another day |
| 03:21.35 | mrpull | fire up the included telnet server ;-) |
| 03:21.54 | jsmith | Yeah, right. I'd rather have a nasty hangnail. |
| 03:23.28 | mrpull | i'd rather have a million papercuts on my eyeballs :) |
| 03:23.39 | jsmith | I manage *thousands* of servers -- I can't imagine having that many telnet ports open. |
| 03:23.45 | jsmith | Eeeew... |
| 03:24.28 | bigdog_ut | telnet rocks |
| 03:25.08 | mrpull | heh... how is this for irony, the script I found for added users to NT groups uses "jsmith" as the example user |
| 03:27.50 | jsmith | Figures. |
| 03:28.18 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: Yeah, as a method of last resort on a secured network :-) |
| 03:28.57 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: But telnet has had security holes big enough to drive a Mack truck through... |
| 03:29.11 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: (That's not to say SSH hasn't) |
| 03:29.13 | bigdog_ut | just a joke |
| 03:29.18 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: I know. |
| 03:29.23 | bigdog_ut | im all about snmp |
| 03:29.28 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: :-) |
| 03:29.44 | hans | hey jsmith |
| 03:29.45 | jsmith | Gotta love semi-useful standards from yester-year... |
| 03:29.47 | jsmith | hans! |
| 03:29.56 | jsmith | hans: Did you get your phone? |
| 03:30.19 | hans | I've noticed reently my asterisk server picks up falsely much much more (fxo card, phones on the pstn side) |
| 03:30.26 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: I spend way too much of my time with SNMP |
| 03:30.30 | hans | well, it arrived at my parents house and we've been playing with it |
| 03:30.49 | jsmith | hans: It's answering the line when it shouldn't? |
| 03:30.59 | hans | unless they can get their ISP to work some magic, their wireless connection ain't gonna cut it - loses too many packets |
| 03:31.06 | jsmith | hans: Which FXO card? |
| 03:31.25 | hans | yeah, and the odd thing is it goes into my "unavailable" dial plan even though CID is there |
| 03:31.37 | hans | the generic wildcard or whatever it's called |
| 03:31.41 | jsmith | Yuck! |
| 03:31.45 | jsmith | Two things: |
| 03:32.10 | jsmith | First of all, CID comes between the first and second rings, so if it's picking up the call when there's no ring, then there's no caller-id. |
| 03:32.18 | jsmith | Second of all the generic wildcards are CRAP! |
| 03:32.20 | hans | it picks up after like 2 rings |
| 03:32.37 | jsmith | hans: It has to wait until after the first ring to get the caller-id. |
| 03:32.46 | hans | which is the other odd thing, since my unavailable plan picks up after 0 rings (e.g. after CID comes, so after one ring in real life) |
| 03:33.01 | hans | so 2 rings and then picking up with that plan is just plain odd |
| 03:33.11 | hans | they're also cheap! |
| 03:33.14 | jsmith | The generic wildcards have problems with detecting polarity-reversal. |
| 03:33.25 | jsmith | Yes, they're cheap, but if your time is woth anything ... |
| 03:33.36 | jsmith | Trust me -- I've been cursing those cards for years. |
| 03:34.01 | hans | ok. this hasn't happened until just now, and I've been using it for probably close to a year now |
| 03:34.09 | hans | it would do this once in a blue moon |
| 03:34.17 | jsmith | Which version of Asterisk? |
| 03:34.51 | hans | 1.0.7.dfsg.1-2 (debian) |
| 03:35.20 | jsmith | You know 1.0.9 is out, right? |
| 03:36.04 | jsmith | Anyhoo, let me see if I've got this straight... |
| 03:36.11 | hans | now I do. I think the problem started after a recent upgrade |
| 03:36.28 | hans | unless it might be related to a recent upgrade of kernel |
| 03:36.58 | jsmith | ... it's answering sometimes after the first ring and getting Caller-ID, and sometimes after the second ring without Caller-ID? |
| 03:37.26 | hans | no cid, it answers after first ring (correctly) |
| 03:37.51 | hans | cid, occasionally (but quite frequently of late) it answers after 2nd ring (or when my wife picks up the phone to make a call sometimes) |
| 03:38.39 | hans | actually I've seen it on the 3rd ring too, or after the first ring |
| 03:38.52 | jsmith | Very strange... |
| 03:38.59 | hans | the more annoying bit (for my wife) is when it starts the unavailable plan right when she picks up the phone |
| 03:39.09 | jsmith | Yeah, that's a problem. |
| 03:39.14 | hans | could my card be going out, or might it be an asterisk bug? |
| 03:39.15 | jsmith | Do you have callprogress turned on... |
| 03:39.25 | hans | lemme check. what does it do? |
| 03:39.27 | jsmith | hans: Could be either. |
| 03:40.05 | jsmith | hans: It's used to try to determine the call state, based on the audio. For example, it tries to detect a busy signal on the line to know to hangup. Most of the time, it just doesn't work. |
| 03:40.12 | hans | zapata.conf:;callprogress=yes |
| 03:40.19 | jsmith | mrpull: I've never tried -- I build *big* asterisk systems, not puny ones. |
| 03:40.24 | jsmith | hans: Turn it off! |
| 03:40.25 | hans | so it's the default, whatever that is. |
| 03:40.34 | hans | is it on by default? |
| 03:40.43 | jsmith | hans: Of course, it'll probably mean that your system won't hangup when a remote caller hangs up. |
| 03:40.48 | Supaplex | hey jsmith :) |
| 03:41.01 | jsmith | hans: Because the generic wildcards don't handle remote disconnect supervision. |
| 03:41.03 | jsmith | Supaplex! |
| 03:41.22 | jsmith | Supaplex: What's up, man? |
| 03:41.26 | Supaplex | I heard a rumor you were from utah. explains why kram was here awhile ago? (or are these/those/you two the same?) |
| 03:41.41 | jsmith | Supaplex: No, but he did have dinner at my house while he was here. |
| 03:41.45 | Supaplex | just coding some perl stuff |
| 03:41.57 | Supaplex | really? how far from downtown SLC? |
| 03:41.57 | jsmith | Supaplex: Kram is the infamous Mark Spencer. |
| 03:41.59 | mrpull | jsmith: unfortunately I have to fake like I understand Cisco Callmanager + Unity |
| 03:42.07 | tensai | hans: I've heard that wireless networks can really crap out with voip traffic. too many packets per second. |
| 03:42.10 | jsmith | Supaplex: I live in Riverton... |
| 03:42.17 | Supaplex | that's right. he's been in my box before fiddling with a core dump. :) |
| 03:42.23 | jsmith | mrpull: Good ol' Call Mangler! |
| 03:42.35 | jsmith | mrpull: Now there's a security nightmare! |
| 03:43.07 | mrpull | it does scare me |
| 03:43.09 | jsmith | tensai: Yeah, sending packets every 20ms can cause major problems on some wireless equipment... |
| 03:43.18 | mrpull | unity is nice enough |
| 03:43.31 | mrpull | callmanager is a pain |
| 03:44.04 | Supaplex | jsmith: that's not far from where I'm looking at housing. Lehi,Cedar Hills,Alpine,Highland etc. |
| 03:45.28 | Supaplex | anyway.. |
| 03:46.41 | hans | tensai: maybe. 10% packet loss for ping isn't a good start, I don't have to look any deeper to explain the choppiness. |
| 03:47.37 | jsmith | Supaplex: FWIW, I work in Orem. |
| 03:47.38 | hans | seems excessive even for the infamous wireless ISPs |
| 03:48.10 | jsmith | hans: Yeah, that's just plain bad.... there's a new jitter-buffer in -HEAD that should help, but 10% is really bad. |
| 03:49.03 | hans | the funny thing is they kept telling me it sounded great on their end |
| 03:49.21 | hans | I don't know if their ear just isn't as discerning as mine, or what |
| 03:49.41 | hans | *lightbulb* |
| 03:49.55 | hans | maybe the wireless ISP transmits with sufficient power to not lose the packets |
| 03:49.59 | hans | but the reverse isn't true |
| 03:50.06 | jsmith | hans: Hey, the cell phone industry has made us all appreciate bad audio quality... |
| 03:50.26 | hans | well we're not a cell phone family |
| 03:50.40 | hans | well, weren't. most of us in the valley have one now |
| 03:50.44 | hans | but they never have. |
| 03:50.56 | hans | (ok, my dad uses one for work, but he probably doesn't like it) |
| 03:51.46 | jsmith | Anyhoo, I'm ready to call it a night and head to bed... |
| 03:52.01 | jsmith | hans: Try newest code, turning off callprogress, and let me know if that helps. |
| 03:52.27 | hans | will do, thanks |
| 03:52.39 | jsmith | No problem... I'd glad to help out. |
| 03:52.41 | mrpull | jsmith: g'night |
| 03:52.51 | hans | even if I have a generic wildcard? ;-) |
| 03:52.55 | jsmith | I just wish my book was on bookstore shelves now, so I could point you to a particular section... |
| 03:53.06 | mrpull | jsmith: I'll ask you my askterisk questions tomorrow :) |
| 03:53.08 | jsmith | mrpull: G'night... have sweet dreams of RDP... |
| 03:53.12 | jsmith | mrpull: Please do :-) |
| 03:58.11 | tensai | hans: I don't think your transmit power theory floats. their antenna listens with the same power it transmits. think about cell phones, same deal. |
| 03:59.53 | hans | well I'm no EE, but it seems that the stronger signal would be easier to pick up |
| 04:00.25 | tensai | well yeah, but the stronger antenna is better at listening as well |
| 04:00.52 | hans | does the power help it listen? |
| 04:01.00 | linuxalien | goodnight all |
| 04:01.01 | *** part/#utah linuxalien (~bastage@c-24-2-80-89.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 04:01.05 | tensai | I'm no EE either, but as I understand it yes |
| 04:01.17 | hans | I'll ask my EE friend at work tomorrow |
| 04:01.37 | hans | 'course he's been programming the years away so he says he's a rusty EE, but I think he should be able to reason it out |
| 04:01.44 | tensai | for our radios, anything more than 1-2% packet loss is unacceptable |
| 04:03.07 | tensai | but when we get somebody with a virus or bittorrent, it can easily cause problems for everybody on that AP |
| 04:04.17 | hans | so even if my unbalanced signal strength theory is off, would a stronger wireless device on their roof perhaps help? |
| 04:04.35 | tensai | "their"? |
| 04:04.40 | hans | my parents |
| 04:05.36 | tensai | a higher gain antenna on your parents roof will probably get a better signal. at some point you'll see diminishing returns though. |
| 04:06.13 | tensai | it could be that their AP is overloaded and trying to send so many pps pushes it over the edge |
| 04:07.07 | hans | the ISP's AP? |
| 04:07.14 | tensai | yes |
| 04:07.28 | hans | what is a pps? |
| 04:09.09 | tensai | packet per second |
| 04:11.00 | tensai | I made some french bread dough today with a little extra water and yeast. stretched it flat using my finger tips. egg wash, cook 375 for 20 min. mmm. ripped and dipped in melted butter. |
| 04:11.21 | hans | overloaded as in serving too many people, then. (I did the ping tests on an idle network) |
| 04:12.38 | tensai | yeah, that would be my guess. consider that the AP is on a half-duplex network and every client has to talk to it. |
| 04:12.53 | tensai | you can easily overload them before you use up all the bandwidth, especially with voip traffic |
| 04:13.18 | tensai | I would complain to them. I know we take stuff like that very seriously. 10% packet loss is totally unacceptable. |
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| 07:11.48 | xbmodder | ? |
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| 14:39.30 | hans | ~lart vontrapp |
| 14:39.47 | vontrapp | ~peanut hans |
| 14:40.43 | vontrapp | ~peanut hans |
| 14:40.43 | ibot | shoots peanuts at hans until hans turns to peanut butter |
| 14:42.29 | dataw0lf | stop the hate!1! |
| 14:42.45 | vontrapp | ~punt dataw0lf |
| 14:42.46 | ibot | ACTION sends dataw0lf into a new timezone |
| 14:43.13 | hans | ~noogie vontrapp |
| 14:43.13 | ibot | ACTION puts vontrapp into a headlock and administers a mighty noogie, rubbing half of vontrapp's hair off! |
| 14:43.27 | vontrapp | ~stab hans |
| 14:43.27 | ibot | ACTION runs at hans with an origami Swiss Army knife, and inflicts a nasty paper cut. |
| 14:43.28 | hans | sorry bout the hair man |
| 14:43.52 | hans | can you believe it von, ~10% packet loss |
| 14:43.59 | hans | and that's just with ping |
| 14:44.06 | vontrapp | lame |
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| 14:56.51 | tensai | hans: what happens when you ping with big packets, like 1460 bytes? that'll usually exacerbate a problem with the wireless link. |
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| 15:05.09 | hans | ping -A -s 1460 fugal.net |
| 15:05.41 | hans | 17% |
| 15:05.56 | hans | (over 100 packets) |
| 15:06.26 | hans | 107 packets transmitted, 88 received, 17% packet loss |
| 15:08.02 | hans | tensai: I did some reading last night, tx power and rx _gain_. or rather, the antenna's gain, which also adds gain to the tx signal |
| 15:08.41 | hans | however the two are not inseparably linked, and the power is not used for rx |
| 15:08.55 | hans | only the quality of the antenna |
| 15:09.18 | hans | your overloaded theory is much more likely |
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| 15:18.29 | levi | Morning. |
| 15:22.13 | jsmith | Yup... It still is... |
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| 16:13.33 | hans | heh, so it looks like IBM made a liar out of jobs |
| 16:13.43 | jsmith | hans: Figures |
| 16:14.04 | hans | "You see, IBM announced its new dual-core PowerPC processors a few days ago, and they pretty much contradict much of what Steve Jobs was saying about how he'd compared IBM's processor timeline with Intel's, and frankly, they simply didn't compare. IBM's G5 dual cores look easily comparable to Intel's Pentium Ds, both in terms of computing power and electrical power consumption. So what's really up?" |
| 16:14.10 | hans | (Cringeley) |
| 16:14.59 | jsmith | hans: It's about DRM, duh! |
| 16:15.03 | bonez39 | Jobs is agile on the dancefloor..I am sure he can waltz through this and come out looking ok |
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| 16:22.24 | tyce | I agree hans |
| 16:23.16 | tyce | something else has to be going on there. |
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| 16:25.40 | levi | hans: A newly released processor is not a 'processor roadmap for the future'. |
| 16:26.57 | hans | huh? |
| 16:27.28 | levi | hans: BTW, I just finished rewriting a large portion of my lisp blog code to make it easier to proceed with it. It's now at http://lifeoflevi.com/blog/, and the rss feed is at http://lifeoflevi.com/blog/index.rss or rss.xml |
| 16:28.44 | levi | hans: When Jobs announced the switch to Intel, he said the Intel roadmap was a better match for Apple, or something along those lines. Just because IBM releases a new processor that looks like it would work well for Apple doesn't mean his statement was invalid--a roadmap goes a lot farther into the future than the couple of months since his announcement. |
| 16:29.20 | levi | Or, in other words--Cringely is talking out of his ass again. |
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| 16:31.47 | bonez39 | here's a printing question..I found a web page with the Phonetic alphabet...i.e., alpha, bravo, charlie, etc...it's just one page...it's not dense....just I am...about how to print..it exceeds the memory...so I have to nudge the laserjet iiip...to print ..then it prints almost all the page, and then the last 2 cm on a new page... |
| 16:33.04 | levi | What's the URL of the page? |
| 16:33.20 | hans | levi: of course. the point is that had apple announced after IBM announced these comparable chips, people would have looked deeper than the apparent lack of comparable chips from IBM |
| 16:33.50 | hans | I have no doubt that intel's roadmap fits apple's roadmap better, just that just what the points on that roadmap are might be more complex than we were let to believe. |
| 16:34.18 | hans | iow, maybe ppc isn't dead, jobx just wants more than a good processor (you know, business) |
| 16:34.57 | levi | I have no doubt that PPC will live on. |
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| 16:35.50 | levi | And I'm sure there's more to the decision than just power consumption and gigahertz, too. We'll have to wait and see what it is. :) |
| 16:39.28 | bonez39 | levi: I tried it on my winbox..and it did same thing..it was just a page formatted originally a bit longer than a letter sized page. |
| 16:40.03 | levi | bonez39: Is it a pdf, or what? |
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| 16:52.58 | levi | hans: You don't have to claim Jobs was lying to speculate he has some ulterior motives. But claiming he was lying makes for a more engaging read, or something, I guess. |
| 16:54.39 | vontrapp | i remember specifics on power consumption and processing power associated with the switch (can't remember if it was directly from jobs or somebody's speculation) |
| 16:55.53 | levi | vontrapp: Yes, those specifics were mentioned. But he was talking about long-term roadmaps, not processors that were just around the corner. |
| 16:56.48 | fozz | QM |
| 16:56.54 | levi | Jobs could still stick these IBM chips in a model of Mac... the first Intel macs won't be sold for a whole year. |
| 16:56.55 | fozz | So there! |
| 16:57.03 | levi | QM? |
| 16:57.27 | fozz | Sorry- typed a command into the wrong window. :) |
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| 16:59.18 | levi | A processor roadmap generally looks 4-5 years into the future, not just a few months. |
| 16:59.39 | vontrapp | ~praise john williams |
| 16:59.40 | ibot | All hail john williams! |
| 16:59.58 | levi | John Williams is a hack. ;) |
| 17:01.15 | vontrapp | man, i wish gkrellmms would work |
| 17:01.20 | levi | At least he's got good taste in sources to draw inspriation from, though. |
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| 17:03.09 | Hhhhh | I'm having problems with my sound in FC4, i'm using snd-intel8x0 driver, alsa 1.0.9, Realtek ALC850 chip (nForce 4 chipset in mobo), no mp3 playback, MIDI won't play, I get garbled sound in Doom 3, but sound in ut2004 works fine. Any ideas? |
| 17:05.02 | levi | Quit playing games and do some programming. ;) |
| 17:05.03 | hans | levi: everything I've read from the mac community, including an obviously apple-sponsored magazine which was full to the gills of why you shouldn't panic in the last issue, has indicated that IBM was nowhere near and not going to be able to do in a timely fashion what it just did. Did jobs say it explicitly, I don't know or care. Was that the impression of the "roadmap incompatibility" across the board in mac community and pundits, that's the impression I got. |
| 17:06.21 | hans | in short, we were told apple was leaving PPC because IBM couldn't deliver, and weeks later IBM delivers and you're left wondering what's really going on |
| 17:06.29 | hans | i know, one chip, blah blah. |
| 17:06.41 | levi | One chip very late, I might add. |
| 17:06.44 | hans | if they are wrong about the next chip, then maybe they're wrong bout their roadmap |
| 17:07.06 | Hhhhh | hmph |
| 17:07.19 | Hhhhh | anybody knows ALSA configuration well? |
| 17:07.23 | hans | yup |
| 17:08.52 | hans | why, did you have a question? |
| 17:09.31 | Hhhhh | I'm having problems with my sound in FC4, i'm using snd-intel8x0 driver, alsa 1.0.9, Realtek ALC850 chip (nForce 4 chipset in mobo), no mp3 playback, MIDI won't play, I get garbled sound in Doom 3, but sound in ut2004 works fine. Any ideas? |
| 17:10.09 | vontrapp | what are you using for mp3 playback? |
| 17:10.10 | hans | did it work previously? |
| 17:10.16 | Hhhhh | I'm not using the NVIDIA binaries because they don't support the latest chipset (I tried them and sound is garbled in ut2004 now and doom 3 has no sound) |
| 17:10.18 | Hhhhh | no |
| 17:10.28 | Hhhhh | just KsCD or xmms |
| 17:10.34 | Hhhhh | those should be ok |
| 17:10.35 | hans | so new hardware? |
| 17:10.35 | tensai | that's it, userfriendly is off my reading list. it's just not funny any more |
| 17:10.39 | vontrapp | using alsa plugin? |
| 17:10.40 | Hhhhh | well, yea |
| 17:11.02 | Hhhhh | vontrapp: hmm, do you mean I have to configure xmms to use ALSA? |
| 17:11.07 | hans | tensai: it was funny once? |
| 17:11.19 | vontrapp | the output plugin |
| 17:11.24 | Hhhhh | oh |
| 17:11.29 | tensai | hans: I recall a few good laughs |
| 17:11.29 | vontrapp | (ESD, ALSA, OSS etc) |
| 17:12.07 | vontrapp | and it might help to select the Default device in the configure dialog |
| 17:12.08 | levi | hans: When you partner with a chip manufacturer, you get to see their roadmap for years ahead, including what's coming out in the next few weeks. So, Apple undoubtedly knew about the new IBM chip as well as what IBM's future plans for PPC are. I think it's a bit too early to say that Jobs didn't mean exactly what he said when he said IBM's roadmap was less attractive than Intel's in processing power and power consumption. |
| 17:14.41 | hans | anyone know what doom3 uses? probably OSS? |
| 17:14.49 | Hhhhh | not sure |
| 17:14.53 | Hhhhh | ut2004 uses OpenAL |
| 17:14.56 | hans | Hhhhh: lsof /dev/dsp* |
| 17:15.00 | Hhhhh | and that works fine |
| 17:15.14 | hans | openal. what is that? |
| 17:15.32 | Hhhhh | lsof returns nothing |
| 17:17.04 | hans | so xmms with alsa output plugin does what now? |
| 17:17.25 | Hhhhh | no |
| 17:17.33 | Hhhhh | nothing |
| 17:17.36 | Hhhhh | no sound |
| 17:17.50 | hans | does xmms look like it's playing or is it just acting hung until you hit stop? |
| 17:17.58 | Hhhhh | it's playing |
| 17:18.03 | hans | alsamixer |
| 17:18.23 | hans | make sure master and PCM(s) are unmuted and levels up around 70 |
| 17:18.50 | Hhhhh | I selected ALSA 1.2.10 output plugin [libALSA.so] for output, and I tried setting it to default and to NVIDIA CK804 |
| 17:18.53 | Hhhhh | none worked |
| 17:19.25 | Hhhhh | both set to 74 |
| 17:20.04 | Hhhhh | both Master and PCM set to 74 |
| 17:20.39 | hans | hmm. |
| 17:20.43 | hans | cat /proc/asound/cards |
| 17:21.33 | hans | if there's an External Amplifier in the mixer, try toggling the mute state on that. |
| 17:21.41 | Hhhhh | 0 [CK804 ]: NFORCE - NVidia CK804 |
| 17:21.41 | Hhhhh | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:22.01 | Hhhhh | in alsamixer you mean? |
| 17:22.05 | hans | yeah |
| 17:22.44 | hans | lsof /dev/snd/* |
| 17:23.04 | Hhhhh | returns nothing |
| 17:23.59 | Hhhhh | I don't see External Amplifier in the mixer |
| 17:24.26 | Hhhhh | wait, I do but it's off |
| 17:24.41 | hans | m will unmute it |
| 17:24.54 | hans | I have that quirk on at least one other card (not nvidia) |
| 17:25.09 | hans | you might need to unmute and remute. or that might not be it at all. |
| 17:25.24 | Hhhhh | didn't work |
| 17:25.44 | Hhhhh | hmm, I noticed that when playing a CD in xmms, I get this message: Message: alsa mixer timed out |
| 17:27.47 | xbmodder | have anyone of you played with art .com |
| 17:28.18 | hans | hmm. lsmod | grep snd |
| 17:30.29 | Hhhhh | hmm, spam |
| 17:30.31 | Hhhhh | lsmod | grep snd |
| 17:30.34 | Hhhhh | snd_intel8x0 34689 1 |
| 17:30.35 | Hhhhh | snd_ac97_codec 75961 1 snd_intel8x0 |
| 17:30.35 | Hhhhh | snd_seq_dummy 3653 0 |
| 17:30.35 | Hhhhh | snd_seq_oss 37057 0 |
| 17:30.36 | Hhhhh | snd_seq_midi_event 9153 1 snd_seq_oss |
| 17:30.38 | Hhhhh | snd_seq 62289 5 snd_seq_dummy,snd_seq_oss,snd_seq_midi_event |
| 17:30.40 | Hhhhh | snd_seq_device 8781 3 snd_seq_dummy,snd_seq_oss,snd_seq |
| 17:30.42 | Hhhhh | snd_pcm_oss 51185 0 |
| 17:30.44 | Hhhhh | snd_mixer_oss 17857 2 snd_pcm_oss |
| 17:30.46 | Hhhhh | snd_pcm 100169 3 snd_intel8x0,snd_ac97_codec,snd_pcm_oss |
| 17:30.48 | Hhhhh | snd_timer 33605 2 snd_seq,snd_pcm |
| 17:30.50 | Hhhhh | snd 57157 9 snd_intel8x0,snd_ac97_codec,snd_seq_oss,snd_seq,snd_seq_device,snd_pcm_oss,snd_mixer_oss,snd_pcm,snd_timer |
| 17:30.53 | Hhhhh | soundcore 10913 3 nvsound,snd |
| 17:30.55 | Hhhhh | snd_page_alloc 9669 2 snd_intel8x0,snd_pcm |
| 17:30.57 | Hhhhh | sorry |
| 17:30.59 | hans | try playing something with mpg123 |
| 17:31.14 | hans | (or another oss mp3 player, including switching xmms to oss) |
| 17:32.01 | xbmodder | your using nvidia? (nforce?) |
| 17:32.10 | Hhhhh | nforce4 |
| 17:32.22 | Hhhhh | realtek Ac'97 (codec ALC850) |
| 17:33.06 | xbmodder | hm |
| 17:35.17 | Hhhhh | hmm, mpg123 works |
| 17:35.27 | xbmodder | grep snd /etc/modules.d/* ###### /etc/modules.d/*|grep -vh '^#' "$@" | grep -v '^$' |
| 17:35.32 | xbmodder | what does that say? |
| 17:36.11 | xbmodder | did you try to makedev? |
| 17:36.16 | Hhhhh | no /etd/modules.d/ directory |
| 17:36.26 | xbmodder | ok |
| 17:36.43 | hans | do you have an ~/.asoundrc |
| 17:36.56 | xbmodder | ls /etc/modules.conf |
| 17:37.04 | xbmodder | grep snd /etc/modules.conf |
| 17:37.17 | hans | Hhhhh: does xmms with oss output plugin work? |
| 17:37.32 | vontrapp | does xmms give you an error? or do you just not hear sound? |
| 17:38.00 | Hhhhh | http://pastebin.com/315676 |
| 17:38.06 | Hhhhh | hmm |
| 17:38.08 | Hhhhh | wait |
| 17:38.11 | Hhhhh | xmms works with mp3 |
| 17:38.15 | Hhhhh | didn't notice |
| 17:38.20 | Hhhhh | but it doesn't work with CDs |
| 17:38.26 | Hhhhh | audio CDs |
| 17:38.37 | hans | ah |
| 17:38.52 | hans | audio CD can be decoded by XMMS or by the CDROM drive |
| 17:38.56 | hans | the latter is the default |
| 17:39.04 | hans | but to work, it needs a cable going from the drive to the sound card |
| 17:39.09 | hans | and CD will need to be unmuted in the mixer. |
| 17:39.18 | xbmodder | alias snd-card-0 snd-intel8x0 |
| 17:39.25 | Hhhhh | yea |
| 17:39.29 | xbmodder | didn't you say you wanted to use nvsound? |
| 17:39.55 | Hhhhh | xbmodder, no, I'm not using nvsound because my chipset isn't supported by the latest nforce drivers |
| 17:39.58 | hans | see also cd audio input plugin |
| 17:40.14 | Hhhhh | nvidia is right on the ball about video drivers, but their chipset drivers are a bit behind |
| 17:40.30 | hans | but doom isn't using the cdrom to play sound I don't think, is it? |
| 17:40.31 | Hhhhh | i have nforce 4, lastest driver (1.0.0301) supports nforce 3 |
| 17:40.36 | Hhhhh | no, doom 3 isn;t |
| 17:40.55 | Hhhhh | also, no sound in Wolfenstein Enemy Tewrritory |
| 17:41.02 | xbmodder | so intel drivers work with nvidia? |
| 17:41.08 | vontrapp | Hhhhh: using gnome/esd or anything like that? |
| 17:41.09 | Hhhhh | they should |
| 17:41.15 | Hhhhh | esd? |
| 17:41.16 | Hhhhh | no |
| 17:41.18 | xbmodder | cat /dev/urandom > /dev/dsp? |
| 17:41.30 | vontrapp | arts? |
| 17:41.44 | vontrapp | what's your desktop? |
| 17:41.49 | Hhhhh | cat /dev/urandom > /dev/dsp gives me noise like a TV with no signal |
| 17:41.57 | xbmodder | post amixer on a pastebin |
| 17:41.58 | Hhhhh | KDE |
| 17:41.58 | hans | we ruled out lame sound daemons with lsof, vontrapp |
| 17:42.25 | Hhhhh | I know arts is being used by some programs, I don't know what arts is though |
| 17:42.50 | vontrapp | my brother nich had garbling problems with esd using alsa |
| 17:42.51 | Hhhhh | so, CD doesn't work so far, and neither do Doom 3 and Wolfenstein ET |
| 17:43.07 | xbmodder | hans, arts is sound daemon that KDE uses/installs |
| 17:43.07 | hans | well, maybe lsof is lying |
| 17:43.10 | hans | pgrep arts |
| 17:43.11 | hans | pgrep esd |
| 17:43.20 | xbmodder | fuser? |
| 17:43.20 | Hhhhh | the rest works fine (DVDs, video files, ut2004, nexuiz, etc) |
| 17:43.25 | hans | I'm all too aware |
| 17:43.30 | xbmodder | fuser -v /dev/dsp |
| 17:44.08 | vontrapp | anything using esd was garbled, but anything using alsa directly was fine |
| 17:44.08 | Hhhhh | pgrep esd returns nothing, pgrep arts returns 2901 (is this a PID)? |
| 17:44.17 | hans | pid yes |
| 17:44.27 | hans | you might try killing arts |
| 17:44.28 | Hhhhh | fuser -v /dev/dsp returns nothing |
| 17:44.37 | Hhhhh | ok, killed it |
| 17:44.39 | hans | then try doom3 |
| 17:44.51 | hans | (this will have no bearing on your CDs thing) |
| 17:44.52 | Hhhhh | I noticed that sometimes ut2004 might leave a few runaways arts processes |
| 17:45.08 | vontrapp | ut uses arts? |
| 17:46.02 | hans | maybe arts is scared of ut |
| 17:46.05 | dataw0lf | try a: |
| 17:46.12 | hans | format a: |
| 17:46.33 | dataw0lf | echo "et.x86 0 0 direct" > /proc/asound/card0/pcm0p/oss; echo "et.x86 0 0 disable" > /proc/asound/card0/pcm0c/oss |
| 17:46.40 | dataw0lf | and see if ET works. |
| 17:46.55 | Hhhhh | doom 3 still garbled |
| 17:47.33 | hans | i wonder if it's not related to dmix on by default in 1.0.9 |
| 17:47.41 | hans | have you tried an earlier version of alsa? |
| 17:47.44 | hans | libasound that is. |
| 17:47.56 | Hhhhh | hey, et fixes! |
| 17:48.01 | Hhhhh | fixed |
| 17:48.07 | dataw0lf | by those echo statements? |
| 17:48.10 | Hhhhh | yes |
| 17:48.13 | Hhhhh | that did it |
| 17:48.16 | dataw0lf | yeah. |
| 17:48.19 | dataw0lf | course it did. |
| 17:48.32 | dataw0lf | but I gotta go to lunch, I'll explain later. |
| 17:49.18 | Hhhhh | hans: i haven't tried other versions of alsa |
| 17:52.25 | vontrapp | ok, looks like doom3 only outputs 44.1Khz, and sometimes you only get 48Khz available, this could probably cause garbling |
| 17:52.38 | hans | oh yeah |
| 17:52.41 | vontrapp | so you can configure alsa to do 44.1Khz i'm sure |
| 17:52.47 | hans | that idea came and went and I forgot to type it |
| 17:53.16 | hans | you may need to set up an alsa plug in .asoundrc that mixes to the new sample rate |
| 17:53.32 | hans | that's assuming doom3 uses alsa at all |
| 17:54.37 | vontrapp | well, artsd is gone, so it could only be using oss instead, which you could still do a plug for in .asoundrc, right? |
| 17:55.04 | vontrapp | or does it use sdl? |
| 17:55.57 | Hhhhh | hmm, I don't know if doom 3 uses SDL |
| 17:56.29 | vontrapp | i would suggest installing the libsdl that uses alsa |
| 17:56.29 | Hhhhh | I don't know if it uses alsa or OSS |
| 17:56.46 | Hhhhh | oh, sdl doesn't use alsa? |
| 17:56.48 | vontrapp | libsdl1.2debian-alsa for debian/ubuntu |
| 17:56.54 | Hhhhh | FC4 here |
| 17:57.10 | vontrapp | there's a libsdl for each of all alsa arts esd nas oss |
| 17:57.11 | hans | sdl can do either, that's part of its appeal |
| 17:57.19 | Hhhhh | i use sdl for other things, if I can avoid it I'd like to leave it intact |
| 17:57.34 | hans | see if the other things can use the soundcard. |
| 17:57.35 | Hhhhh | is there a way to configure it to use ALSA without replacing it? |
| 17:57.37 | hans | ltris for example |
| 17:57.47 | vontrapp | it's like a frontend/backend deal, sdl is consistent for any of the libsdl backends |
| 17:58.20 | Hhhhh | no ltris here or in repos |
| 17:58.24 | Hhhhh | what's ltris? |
| 17:58.36 | vontrapp | a cool but lame tetris |
| 17:59.16 | Hhhhh | well, pretty much every other game works fine |
| 17:59.30 | Hhhhh | right now only doom 3 is the one with sound problems |
| 18:01.08 | Hhhhh | so, alsa is ok then? the issue now is to get CD playback and doom 3 working with ALSA? |
| 18:03.09 | vontrapp | connect the cd drive to the soundcard or use the xmms cdplayer plugin |
| 18:04.12 | Hhhhh | how do I set up the xmms cd player plugin? |
| 18:04.17 | Hhhhh | it;s installed |
| 18:05.19 | hans | cool but lame? it's not lame |
| 18:05.22 | hans | it's all cool |
| 18:05.37 | vontrapp | very slick, nice sounds graphics, but lame for multiplayer |
| 18:05.50 | hans | Hhhhh: the easy answer for cd playing is the cd input plugin in xmms |
| 18:06.02 | hans | vontrapp: it's great multiplayer. network would be nice though |
| 18:06.08 | Hhhhh | hans: I have it installed |
| 18:06.10 | vontrapp | that's what's lame |
| 18:06.20 | vontrapp | no network :( |
| 18:06.28 | hans | no network? I wouldn't say it classifies as lame just because it's not networked |
| 18:06.32 | hans | but it would be nice |
| 18:07.08 | vontrapp | bah, this is the age of connectivity, get with it or you're lame |
| 18:09.18 | Hhhhh | do I need to set something up to get the xmms CD plugin to work? right now it's installed but no workie |
| 18:09.32 | vontrapp | you have to enable it |
| 18:09.44 | vontrapp | other than that, i don't know |
| 18:09.48 | vontrapp | never used it |
| 18:09.49 | hans | if cdparanioa works, xmms cd plugin should work (but might need to be configured to use software not cdrom) |
| 18:55.28 | Hhhhh | ok, CD playback is working (it chokes every once in a while do to software caching or something), but it worls for now |
| 18:55.41 | Hhhhh | now, about doom 3, this is what I get when running it for a few seconds |
| 18:55.42 | Hhhhh | http://pastebin.com/315724 |
| 18:59.45 | dataw0lf | back from lunch. |
| 18:59.57 | dataw0lf | Hhhhh: you'll have to launch doom3 like so: ./doom3 +set s_driver oss |
| 19:00.06 | dataw0lf | lemme know if it helps. |
| 19:02.12 | hans | i think it probably will. now the question is why were et and doom choiking on alsa output? was it the sample rate? |
| 19:03.49 | dataw0lf | yeah, it's been a known problem on both. |
| 19:05.13 | levi | Ah, the perils of Linux gaming. |
| 19:05.28 | Hhhhh | I just figured out, I went to ~/.doom3-demo/demo/Doom3Config.cfg and replace "best" for "oss" |
| 19:05.34 | Hhhhh | now it works like a charm |
| 19:05.53 | Hhhhh | for some reason Doom 3 doesn;t like alsa |
| 19:05.59 | Hhhhh | in my system at least |
| 19:06.11 | dataw0lf | doesn't like Alsa on alot of systems. |
| 19:06.14 | dataw0lf | neither does ET. |
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| 19:15.46 | Hhhhh | all right, all fixed now |
| 19:15.48 | Hhhhh | i'm using the oss driver though, which is not the ideal |
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| 20:19.32 | Jayce^ | OINK OINK OINK |
| 20:20.28 | harleypig | *snuffle* |
| 20:20.46 | Jayce^ | siouee |
| 20:21.01 | vontrapp | ~bucket harleypig |
| 20:21.01 | ibot | ACTION throws a bucket of water on harleypig, "That one was for the smell!" |
| 20:21.14 | harleypig | heh |
| 20:21.15 | Jayce^ | ooohh, perfect |
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| 20:46.26 | harleypig | Anyone had occasion to use DBD::CSV? |
| 20:46.38 | Jayce^ | yes |
| 20:47.54 | harleypig | Have you run into this error? dbih_setup_fbav: invalid number of fields: -1, NUM_OF_FIELDS attribute probably not set right at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.7/i686-linux/DBD/File.pm line 471 |
| 20:48.26 | Jayce^ | no, did you give it a bad definition? |
| 20:48.33 | Jayce^ | bad headers? |
| 20:48.52 | harleypig | No headers ... set col_name to [] and tried setting skip_first_row to undef |
| 20:48.57 | harleypig | Same thing either way. |
| 20:49.40 | harleypig | It's supposed to do col0, col1 for the headers if there aren't any. |
| 20:50.01 | Jayce^ | right |
| 20:51.02 | harleypig | It happens when I try to do a fetchrow_hashref ... everything else up to that point is ok ... trying fetchrow_arrayref |
| 20:51.37 | harleypig | Nope ... same thing. |
| 20:52.44 | harleypig | The prepare is just a SELECT * FROM $table where $table is the name of the file to be loaded from. |
| 20:52.55 | harleypig | but the trace file doesn't show anything wrong. |
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| 20:55.33 | vontrapp | does the file have the names of the fields in the first row? |
| 21:06.38 | harleypig | http://www.cafepress.com/cp/moredetails.aspx?showBleed=false&ProductNo=16057398&pr=F |
| 21:06.52 | harleypig | work safe |
| 21:09.42 | hans | case-insentivite comparisons in shell scripts, anyone? |
| 21:09.49 | hans | e.g. in an if statement. |
| 21:10.02 | goozbach | test may have a switch |
| 21:10.06 | goozbach | man test |
| 21:10.12 | hans | nada |
| 21:10.44 | goozbach | or use tr to force a case and then compare |
| 21:11.33 | goozbach | lower = echo $nocase | tr A-Z a-z |
| 21:11.54 | goozbach | er |
| 21:12.04 | goozbach | lower = `echo $nocase | tr A-Z a-z` |
| 21:15.52 | harleypig | hans: Is this file or string tests? |
| 21:16.00 | hans | string |
| 21:16.31 | harleypig | I've been looking for that for awhile ... you *can* do regexp in bash test but it's ugly ... |
| 21:18.33 | harleypig | Also, if you want to go to the trouble, you can use nocaseglob which will do case insensitive checks of filenames. |
| 21:18.49 | harleypig | But you have to do a lot of work around ... you'd be better off trying the tr mentioned above. |
| 21:20.50 | *** part/#utah Jayce^ (~Jayce_@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 21:28.03 | harleypig | hans: The closes I've found is this little tidbit ... but it's hairy: http://nixdoc.net/files/forum/viewtopic.php?p=67609#67609 |
| 21:29.00 | hans | I'm seeing a lot of PID stopped with status 22! in my cups error_log |
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| 21:43.11 | lars-ut | ~emulate gir |
| 21:43.11 | ibot | aww, my bees... |
| 21:44.00 | harleypig | ? |
| 21:47.33 | mrpull_ | ~seen Maquis |
| 21:47.33 | ibot | maquis is currently on #utah (4h 55m 30s) |
| 21:50.34 | harleypig | ~seen me? |
| 21:50.34 | ibot | me <~me@81.214.84.138> was last seen on IRC in channel #kde, 50d 10h 16m ago, saying: 'hi'. |
| 21:50.43 | harleypig | heh |
| 21:51.45 | lars-ut | over the phone that is... |
| 22:02.49 | tensai | aaah! getting swamped with email and IM... |
| 22:03.00 | tensai | must... breathe... |
| 22:03.11 | mrpull_ | tensai: so you cope with IRC? |
| 22:03.12 | hans | ~hug tensai |
| 22:03.12 | ibot | ACTION hugs tensai |
| 22:03.23 | hans | nobody's demanding his attention in irc |
| 22:03.25 | vontrapp | hans: squeeze harder |
| 22:03.41 | vontrapp | er, ibot: squeeze harder |
| 22:04.53 | harleypig | ibot, squeeze hardest? |
| 22:04.53 | ibot | ACTION squeezes the juice out of hardest until there just ain't nothin left |
| 22:04.59 | harleypig | oh well |
| 22:21.19 | mrpull_ | heh... Jeremy's "get hit by a bus" statement on the PLUG list made me laugh |
| 22:21.35 | mrpull_ | somedays that feels like an optimal situation for me too |
| 22:41.56 | levi | Uhh, someone's taking the XML thing a bit too far... http://www.datapower.com/products/xa35.html |
| 22:57.20 | vontrapp | "the growing number of slow performing applications is proof that ..." xml isn't that great in all situations |
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| 23:08.51 | tensai | levi: sjansen would love that |
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| 23:26.28 | harleypig | Ah ... figgered out the DBD::CSV problem ... even though docs say it'll auto create the col0, col1 col_names array, it doesn't. IT LIES! |
| 23:26.46 | harleypig | Create a col_names array, stuff it in csv_tables and it works. Wheee! |
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