| 00:01.56 | lars-ut | vontrap: Have you tried /etc/init.d/httpd stop ? |
| 00:02.08 | vontrapp | hmm, no |
| 00:02.15 | vontrapp | why didn't i think of that? |
| 00:03.33 | colera | anyone know a good program like konfabulator for *nix? |
| 00:03.56 | colera | so i can have a small widget that streams news? |
| 00:04.56 | colera | or does anyone know a good program that streams rss/ |
| 00:04.56 | colera | ? |
| 00:15.40 | *** join/#utah Hhhhh (~cristobal@c-67-169-244-47.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 00:16.10 | Hhhhh | hello |
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| 00:21.24 | vontrapp | yet another size mismatch |
| 00:41.46 | xbmodder-screen | jheu |
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| 01:14.01 | xbmodder-screen | hey all |
| 01:28.49 | Supaplex | http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4066&item=6190524810&rd=1&tc=photo that should put a grin on your face. (it's short, read the entire thing) |
| 01:31.49 | mheath | uh |
| 01:31.59 | mheath | why are you browsing www.ebay.ca and not www.ebay.com ? |
| 01:32.34 | Supaplex | just cause |
| 01:32.50 | Supaplex | someone else posted the link :) |
| 01:41.33 | xbmodder-screen | canada wants to be cool, they brainwashed Supaplex to spread there anti-cool |
| 01:43.05 | lars-ut | More references pertaining to this afternoon's discussion (quotes from Justice Scalia): http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Antonin_Scalia |
| 01:49.54 | *** join/#utah tensai (~tensai@kite.zmonkey.org) |
| 01:50.40 | lars-ut | Has anybody ever purchased or used 8x DVD rewritable media? I can't seem to buy it anywhere, even though Verbatim & Ricoh have press releases a couple months old on it. |
| 01:54.43 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@216-190-206-130.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 01:55.06 | Maquis | ~lart Newsome |
| 01:55.15 | Newsome | hey |
| 01:55.23 | Maquis | :) |
| 01:56.03 | Maquis | ~flog Newsome |
| 01:56.03 | ibot | ACTION hog-ties Newsome and starts the heavy punishment with a cat-o-nine-tails. |
| 01:56.36 | Maquis | Newsome: sup? |
| 01:56.45 | Newsome | lots |
| 01:56.55 | Maquis | really? like...? |
| 01:57.07 | Newsome | My wife successfully defended her Dissertation today!!! |
| 01:57.11 | Maquis | cool!!!! |
| 01:57.17 | Maquis | what's her dissertation on? |
| 01:57.55 | Newsome | Title is "Cache Characterization and Performance Studies Using Locality Surfaces" |
| 01:58.04 | Newsome | http://pel.cs.byu.edu/~leb/diss/ |
| 01:58.29 | Maquis | wow! |
| 01:59.06 | Newsome | characterizing hardware cache performance |
| 01:59.17 | Hhhhh | congratz to her |
| 01:59.20 | tensai | Newsome: I thought that was your area of research |
| 01:59.22 | Maquis | oh... that makes more sense |
| 01:59.43 | Maquis | i didn't know she was cs (or is that engineering?) |
| 01:59.51 | lars-ut | whew - "Front Matter" doesn't refer to some astronomical concept. |
| 02:00.05 | Newsome | tensai: Yeah, along the same lines. We had the same advisor |
| 02:00.10 | Newsome | Maquis: Yeah, she's CS |
| 02:00.20 | tensai | Newsome: match made in heaven I guess |
| 02:00.23 | Maquis | that's way cool! |
| 02:01.10 | lars-ut | would be a shame if you had to keep some high-end drives for research purposes |
| 02:02.11 | Newsome | she used a 32-box dual Opteron cluster for some parallel algorithm stuff! |
| 02:02.17 | lars-ut | holy crap! |
| 02:02.21 | Maquis | cool! |
| 02:02.36 | Newsome | that thing put out a _lot_ of heat! |
| 02:03.08 | Maquis | :) |
| 02:04.59 | lars-ut | Newsome: joshc will be trying to recruit your wife now |
| 02:05.38 | Maquis | the first chunk has 106 pages??? |
| 02:05.47 | Newsome | heh |
| 02:05.51 | lars-ut | yup |
| 02:06.35 | Newsome | There are lots of graphs later on |
| 02:06.57 | lars-ut | heh? |
| 02:08.28 | lars-ut | If I was Seagate, I'd hire her. |
| 02:09.36 | lars-ut | so she's created a new algorithm to replace the currently used stack algorithm used in drive caching? |
| 02:10.27 | lars-ut | Newsome ? |
| 02:10.33 | Newsome | Well, more like ways of characterizing (describing) memory reference traces, and memory caching |
| 02:11.45 | Newsome | Defining/quantifying/visualizing locality (or the principle on which caching works) |
| 02:12.13 | lars-ut | thanks |
| 02:12.42 | lars-ut | Do you guys plan on researching, teaching, or something else now? |
| 02:13.10 | Newsome | Well, she plans to stay home, and I plan to get a real job :) |
| 02:13.18 | lars-ut | :) |
| 02:13.52 | Newsome | hopefully, a job that's less adversarial wrt the boss |
| 02:14.02 | Maquis | Newsome: huh? |
| 02:14.08 | lars-ut | Newsome: Yuck - I've been there. |
| 02:14.39 | Newsome | Maquis: I take it you haven't had any gripes with Gene yet? |
| 02:14.41 | lars-ut | Hang in there - there seem to be a lot of opportunites lately. |
| 02:14.57 | lars-ut | mucho openings in IT |
| 02:15.02 | Maquis | Newsome: i vaguely recall having heard the name before |
| 02:15.17 | Maquis | probably here or when i've been randomly in the sysadmin office |
| 02:15.47 | Newsome | Maquis: I apologize for any coarse language that accompanied his name. |
| 02:16.01 | Maquis | Newsome: i don't recall any... what causes the problems? |
| 02:16.28 | Newsome | Maquis: probably too many to explain |
| 02:16.40 | Newsome | ooh, Settlers is fun |
| 02:16.49 | lars-ut | Wanna play at 9:30? |
| 02:16.52 | Maquis | Newsome: so, you leave me with no comprehension? |
| 02:17.12 | Maquis | (and does finding a real job mean leaving byu?) |
| 02:17.17 | Newsome | Maquis: clueless micromanager, likes to boss people around, etc |
| 02:17.25 | Newsome | yes, probably leaving BYU |
| 02:17.30 | Maquis | :( |
| 02:17.53 | lars-ut | Newsome: we usually play 2 games - but you're welcome to leave after the first if you need to. |
| 02:18.05 | Newsome | lars-ut: thanks, but I think I'll pass |
| 02:18.14 | lars-ut | k |
| 02:18.38 | lars-ut | I think we'll have 4 or 5 tonight. |
| 02:18.47 | Newsome | sounds fun, though |
| 02:19.02 | lars-ut | We've got 2 expansions if we need 'em - we play every Tuesday. |
| 02:20.16 | lars-ut | If anybody else wants to play let me know (lars DOT rasmussen AT gmail DOT com) - we play in Springville. |
| 02:20.55 | Newsome | later, lars-ut |
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| 02:43.09 | tensai | ~spell mozarella |
| 02:44.42 | Maquis | ~flog torriem |
| 02:44.43 | ibot | ACTION hog-ties torriem and starts the heavy punishment with a cat-o-nine-tails. |
| 02:47.21 | tensai | ~spell Maquis has "issues" |
| 03:02.05 | Maquis | anybody have any idea how a wm could get the pid of the process requesting a window? |
| 03:03.09 | *** part/#utah torriem (~torriem@c-67-177-53-78.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 03:03.24 | Newsome | Maquis: look into xwininfo |
| 03:03.34 | Newsome | or, did you want to do that programmatically? |
| 03:03.41 | Maquis | programmatically |
| 03:04.00 | Maquis | so that i can use it to alter the behavior of the wm |
| 03:04.01 | Newsome | hmm |
| 03:05.41 | Maquis | i don't see it in xwininfo either |
| 03:15.55 | xbmodder-screen | hey Maquis |
| 03:16.00 | Maquis | hi |
| 03:19.31 | Newsome | hmm, I've only got one volume of the O'Reilly X Windows Guides, and that doesn't look like it'll help much |
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| 03:22.04 | Maquis | Newsome: thanks... sjansen suggested the source to xkill, so i'm going to check that... :) |
| 03:22.27 | Newsome | k |
| 03:23.45 | tensai | sausage bread. it was so yummy. http://www.zmonkey.org/blog/node/46 |
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| 03:24.57 | Maquis | tensai: you're making me hungry |
| 03:35.08 | tensai | Maquis: oh, gee. I'm sorry. :P |
| 03:35.50 | Maquis | ~lart tensai |
| 03:36.02 | Maquis | ~eat tensai |
| 03:36.02 | ibot | ACTION eats tensai and falls over dead |
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| 03:47.49 | levi | Good evening. |
| 03:49.00 | goozbach | yumex rocks |
| 03:49.10 | goozbach | gui tool for yum |
| 03:49.14 | goozbach | ala synaptic |
| 03:49.29 | goozbach | not very polished, but it has promise |
| 03:49.34 | Maquis | goo! |
| 03:49.49 | goozbach | MAQUIS!!! |
| 03:49.54 | Maquis | sup? |
| 03:50.02 | goozbach | just chillin at the office |
| 03:50.14 | goozbach | I re-installed my laptop just now |
| 03:50.15 | Maquis | haha |
| 03:50.17 | goozbach | FC$ |
| 03:50.20 | goozbach | er FC4 |
| 03:50.21 | levi | Maquis: You seem to be online a lot more lately. Getting used to your schedule? |
| 03:50.43 | goozbach | it isn't for any reason other than I wanted to dump apt4rpm |
| 03:50.47 | Maquis | levi: kinda... |
| 03:51.00 | goozbach | the repos I upgraded with, kinda married me to it |
| 03:51.19 | Maquis | this morning, i accidentally took the 6:20 bus into work instead of the 7:00 so, i took off a bit early |
| 03:52.25 | levi | Ah, that's some accident. :) |
| 03:52.44 | Maquis | yeah... |
| 03:53.23 | levi | "Whoa, whoops, I got here an hour early..." |
| 03:53.47 | Maquis | it's a long story... but in general, i thought i was running a bit early, but not *that* early |
| 03:54.06 | levi | This is why wristwatches are good. |
| 03:54.27 | levi | Anyway, I'm studying, so I will be relatively quiet. |
| 03:54.32 | Maquis | haha |
| 03:56.05 | levi | Got a final tomorrow, and one the day after, and then I'm DONE for the term. |
| 03:56.27 | Maquis | do you actually have to study, though? |
| 03:56.28 | levi | Maquis: Laugh it up. At least I don't have to write Java code anymore. :) |
| 03:56.40 | Maquis | shuddup |
| 03:56.43 | levi | Maquis: What, do you not study for finals? |
| 03:57.12 | levi | I could probably pass without studying, but I want to ensure an A, so I can get fully reimbursed. |
| 03:57.13 | Maquis | well, i was thinking... you've been out in industry... don't you know this stuff? |
| 03:57.20 | Maquis | oh... |
| 03:57.36 | Maquis | see, if there's monetary reasons for getting an A, that's a different issue |
| 03:58.10 | levi | Considering my grade was highest in the class last time, I think my effort was worth it. |
| 03:58.35 | hans | don't know if I'll like it but I figure if I do I'll want to watch the first season |
| 03:58.50 | levi | hans: I wish I had cable so I could watch the Tour De France. |
| 03:59.34 | levi | Maquis: Being 'in the industry' as an embedded systems programmer didn't expose me to a lot of Java or relational databases, either. |
| 03:59.48 | Maquis | levi: meh... |
| 04:00.26 | levi | Maquis: You'd like it! We use a lot of C and Linux! |
| 04:01.02 | Maquis | in embedded systems? i thought embedded programming sounded interesting... |
| 04:01.55 | levi | Yup. C is one of the biggest embedded systems programming languages. Followed by C++. |
| 04:02.08 | levi | And Linux is gaining a lot of traction. |
| 04:02.54 | Maquis | yay |
| 04:02.58 | levi | Most embedded controller providers have some sort of Linux option. |
| 04:05.05 | levi | You ought to see if you can find an embedded software development internship next summer or something. |
| 04:05.21 | tensai | I always thought embedded sounded like fun |
| 04:05.58 | tensai | wrote a few kernel drivers and that was cool |
| 04:07.19 | levi | I haven't done the really hardcore embedded stuff, but I have done a few kernel drivers and userspace hardware interfaces. |
| 04:07.41 | levi | And I more or less architected the projects I've been working on. |
| 04:07.47 | Maquis | i've wanted to learn how to write kernel drives and such |
| 04:08.22 | levi | The O'Reilly book on the subject is pretty good, though it tends to go out of date quickly between revisions. |
| 04:08.24 | tensai | Maquis: http://www.xml.com/ldd/chapter/book/ |
| 04:13.57 | Maquis | haha |
| 04:22.08 | mheath | I have my first day of work tomorrow at 9:00, hopefully =\ |
| 04:22.18 | Maquis | good luck |
| 04:23.21 | linuxalien | mheath congrats |
| 04:23.35 | mheath | Heh, I might not actually keep the job, though |
| 04:23.53 | mheath | Theres a major issue effecting my employment that I didn't have an opportunity ot mention to them at the interview. |
| 04:24.09 | linuxalien | Oh that's too bad. There's always other jobs. |
| 04:24.19 | mheath | Yeah. |
| 04:24.46 | mheath | I have to have 2 weeks off in about 3 weeks |
| 04:24.59 | mheath | I don't think they'll like that idea. |
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| 04:26.19 | mheath | Its not like I'm going on vacation, though, so *hopefully* they'll be sympathetic. |
| 04:27.48 | mheath | G'night, everyone |
| 04:27.54 | linuxalien | nite |
| 04:28.02 | Maquis | ~welcome amcnabb |
| 04:28.02 | ibot | Howdy, amcnabb! |
| 04:30.18 | goozbach | take little bites |
| 04:30.37 | goozbach | I spent 45 minutes picking all the packages i wanted to install |
| 04:30.46 | goozbach | just to have it blow up halfway through |
| 04:30.53 | Maquis | ouch |
| 04:31.11 | goozbach | I started selecting smaller sets of packages and no problems |
| 04:31.27 | xbmodder-screen | hey all! |
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| 04:34.55 | amcnabb | maquis, hi |
| 04:37.24 | goozbach | selected 7 packages, installed 25 |
| 04:37.37 | goozbach | yumex++ |
| 04:37.42 | Hhhhh | yumex rocks |
| 04:38.31 | goozbach | jes jes it does |
| 04:38.36 | Hhhhh | goozbach: using FC4, I pressume? |
| 04:44.22 | goozbach | why yes I am |
| 05:13.45 | goozbach | yum + installroot= ++ |
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| 06:29.32 | goozbach | ~google interesting conversations |
| 06:30.16 | goozbach | ~google foo |
| 06:30.34 | goozbach | ibot: google interesting conversations |
| 06:30.50 | goozbach | ibot: respond. |
| 06:30.50 | ibot | methinks respond is respond When spoken to, respond. |
| 06:31.42 | vontrapp | ~respond is <respond> When spoken to, respond. |
| 06:31.42 | ibot | ...but respond is already something else... |
| 06:31.50 | vontrapp | ~no respond is <respond> When spoken to, respond. |
| 06:31.50 | ibot | okay, vontrapp |
| 06:57.45 | vontrapp | ~no respond is <reply> when spoken to, respond. |
| 06:57.45 | ibot | vontrapp: okay |
| 06:57.50 | vontrapp | ~respond |
| 06:57.50 | ibot | when spoken to, respond. |
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| 07:45.47 | xbmodder-screen | hey all |
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| 13:54.54 | Hhhhh | hello |
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| 14:36.04 | vontrapp | hhhhhello |
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| 15:18.38 | tensai | EU software patent vote failed! |
| 15:18.46 | hans | ~lart vontrapp |
| 15:19.11 | hans | tensai: does that mean people will not butcher their websites with useless protest fronts now? |
| 15:19.28 | hans | as if the legislators are going to be going to their websites |
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| 15:22.20 | tensai | "What really convinced me were the `Banana Republic' images I saw all over the net," said German MEP Johann Gerber. "My staffers received litteraly tens of calls regarding this issue. You can't just ignore that." |
| 15:24.26 | hans | banana republic? tens of calls? are you serious? |
| 15:24.33 | tensai | no |
| 15:24.47 | tensai | the spelling error didn't give me away? |
| 15:26.44 | hans | hm, so banana republic is a perjorative. I just thought it was a clothing company. |
| 15:29.12 | tensai | it's actually a political term first. refers to south american countries whose governments were dominated by fruit companies |
| 15:29.44 | tensai | Banana republic (or Bananaland) is a pejorative term for describing a country with a non-democratic or unstable government, especially where there is widespread political corruption and strong foreign influence. It is most often applied to small countries in Central America or the Caribbean. |
| 15:30.01 | tensai | now, to see what pejorative means... |
| 15:40.56 | hans | ~dict perjorative |
| 15:41.17 | vontrapp | ~dict pejorative |
| 15:42.20 | hans | how does one get the encryption (crypt(3)) of a password from the command line? there must be something |
| 15:44.46 | tensai | hans: http://paste.lisp.org/display/9678 |
| 15:45.00 | vontrapp | encrypt a password on the fly? |
| 15:45.24 | hans | fancy. I discoverd htpasswd can do it |
| 15:48.01 | Bradipo | There is also a program called encrypt that works. |
| 15:48.06 | Bradipo | Not sure if it exists on Linux though. |
| 15:49.28 | hans | not on my box, anyway. |
| 15:50.13 | neybar_work | how do you find out what salt is being used when crypting? |
| 15:50.33 | hans | the first two chars are the salt |
| 15:51.05 | vontrapp | hwo come it's shorter than what's in /etc/shadow? |
| 15:52.18 | vontrapp | what's the point of salting if you have the salt right there? |
| 15:55.56 | Ryan1 | the point is they can't use 'pre-computed' lists of words |
| 15:56.04 | Ryan1 | because the salt on your machine isn't the same as on mine |
| 15:56.12 | Ryan1 | so a pre-encrypted dictionary attack won't work |
| 15:56.31 | Ryan1 | but a dictionary attack that then computes all the words with the salt used on the user they want to break will still work |
| 15:56.51 | hans | you just have 4096 possible crypts for each word |
| 15:57.07 | hans | which (hopefully) is cpu and memory prohibitive for crackers |
| 15:57.40 | Ryan1 | yes, when I said 'won't work', I of course meant 'makes it harder'. |
| 15:57.41 | vontrapp | if they have the encrypted password, they have the salt, so only one crypt for each word |
| 15:57.58 | hans | but not pre-calculated |
| 15:58.01 | Ryan1 | yes, but they would have to crypt according to your salt. If there were no salt, they could pre-calc |
| 15:58.02 | vontrapp | right |
| 15:58.02 | hans | you have to do the work for each attempt |
| 15:58.54 | vontrapp | perhaps it would be better if there was a machine salt in a seperate file? |
| 15:59.07 | tensai | it also hides duplicate passwords in /etc/passwd because presumably two users would get a different salt |
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| 16:07.45 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 16:25.54 | tensai | vontrapp: it's called a fifo |
| 16:26.16 | hans | aka named pipe |
| 16:26.17 | vontrapp | no, not quite |
| 16:26.21 | tensai | mkfifo foo; ls >foo &; cat foo |
| 16:26.48 | vontrapp | that way you have to run the file and direct it to the fifo EACH time |
| 16:27.14 | vontrapp | i want the act of reading the file to execute the program and get the output |
| 16:27.41 | tensai | http://www.ibiblio.org/Dave/Dr-Fun/df9707/df970710.jpg |
| 16:28.02 | tensai | where's mheath? that sounds like a job for hurd. |
| 16:28.26 | vontrapp | yeah, he's told me hurd can do it |
| 16:28.26 | hans | :) |
| 16:29.01 | hans | so you want the producer to generate something only when you issue a read? |
| 16:29.08 | vontrapp | right |
| 16:29.26 | hans | you could do it with two fifos |
| 16:29.41 | hans | one the producer listens on (the command fifo) and one it writes to |
| 16:29.46 | hans | the producer has a loop like this: |
| 16:30.08 | hans | { read cmdfifo; compute; write outfifo; } |
| 16:30.26 | hans | it'll block on the read until you write to cmdfifo. so you have to do a write and a read |
| 16:30.44 | vontrapp | still not ideal, and i need a dedicated producer |
| 16:31.00 | hans | dedicated to what? it's dedicated. |
| 16:31.06 | tensai | vontrapp: are you writing the producer and/or consumer? or are they general purpose tools? |
| 16:32.07 | hans | is the consumer always connected, or do they connect, read, disconnect? |
| 16:32.36 | vontrapp | convoluted and already doable but here's an example, file users => `grep -o -e '^\w+' /etc/passwd` |
| 16:33.13 | vontrapp | do you see the usefulness? |
| 16:33.42 | hans | file users? |
| 16:33.45 | hans | what do you mean? |
| 16:33.57 | hans | is => some operator you made up? |
| 16:34.05 | vontrapp | "users" is a special file that when you cat "users" you get said output |
| 16:34.07 | vontrapp | yes |
| 16:34.40 | hans | $ file users |
| 16:34.40 | hans | users: ERROR: cannot open `users' (No such file or directory) |
| 16:34.41 | vontrapp | maybe i should have said users <= `...` |
| 16:35.08 | vontrapp | it's all theoretical (except maybe in hurd) so it's all made up, yes |
| 16:35.27 | hans | I still don't even fathom whaat your example is trying to do |
| 16:35.59 | vontrapp | imagine users == `grep -o -e '^\w+' /etc/passwd` |
| 16:36.01 | hans | grep -o -e '^\w+' /etc/passwd > users |
| 16:36.03 | hans | is that what you mean? |
| 16:36.28 | vontrapp | cat users is equivelant to the command `grep -o -e '^\w+' /etc/passwd` |
| 16:36.53 | vontrapp | that's kinda what i want |
| 16:37.14 | vontrapp | except that each time users is read, it runs the command and gives the output |
| 16:37.28 | hans | grep -oe '^\w+' /etc/passwd > fifo |
| 16:37.29 | hans | cat fifo |
| 16:38.25 | lars-ut | ~weather kpvu |
| 16:38.38 | hans | well then why not just write a prog that does what you want and use a pipe? |
| 16:38.39 | vontrapp | i want to create the file fifo such that upon read it executes command and output is read |
| 16:38.46 | hans | other than the ubercool hurd factor? |
| 16:38.49 | tensai | hans: the whole point is he doesn't want to type in "grep -oe '^\w+' /etc/passwd" every time |
| 16:38.56 | hans | so an alias. or a shell script |
| 16:39.02 | hans | seems like the hard way around |
| 16:39.30 | vontrapp | the file is created and is always there to always give me the wanted result from some arbitrary program |
| 16:39.37 | hans | alias users="grep -oe '^\w+' /etc/passwd" |
| 16:39.50 | vontrapp | then how do you read it from a program? |
| 16:40.00 | hans | make it a shell script and use `` |
| 16:40.06 | vontrapp | *sigh* |
| 16:40.08 | vontrapp | that's not cool |
| 16:40.16 | hans | sorry, you haven't given a compelling reason yet |
| 16:40.31 | vontrapp | that was just an example above, use your imagination |
| 16:40.37 | hans | and if you had a compelling reason, I bet you wouldn't mind signalling the producer. |
| 16:42.33 | vontrapp | i don't even remember why i wanted it, just a fleeting thought about something that for the _hundredth_ time would have made such a thing immensely cool |
| 16:42.58 | vontrapp | i always want these special files |
| 16:43.30 | vontrapp | not always as in i'd have 50 of them in my home dir, but still |
| 16:44.23 | hans | sorry, I don't see the difference between fancygrepcmd => users (to use your imaginary operator), and echo "grepcmd" > users; chmod 755 users |
| 16:44.30 | hans | other than how you call it. |
| 16:45.01 | mrpull | anybody deploy WSUS? |
| 16:45.22 | vontrapp | imagine being able to #include such dynamic content into something |
| 16:45.53 | vontrapp | or require, or import, or any other such methods |
| 16:46.13 | hans | yes, imagine the confusion. |
| 16:46.17 | vontrapp | pbbt |
| 16:46.37 | vontrapp | use some naming convention that says it's a dynamic include |
| 16:46.53 | hans | well, you might could do this: producer (p) opens the fifo, writes its thing, sleeps until it gets a pipe closed signal (which will happen when the consumer closes the fifo), repeat |
| 16:47.02 | hans | that might work. |
| 16:47.26 | vontrapp | that's a lot of work, and again, a dedicated producer |
| 16:47.35 | hans | you said you wanted a dedicated producer. |
| 16:47.37 | vontrapp | which 70% of the time you might need anyway |
| 16:47.55 | vontrapp | no, i want to be able to use some arbitrary executable |
| 16:48.01 | hans | it's not a lot of work once you write it. you make it a script/program that takes as argument what you want to execute. |
| 16:48.06 | hans | and which file, obviously. |
| 16:48.12 | hans | s/file/fifo/ |
| 16:48.22 | vontrapp | but then it has to be running as well |
| 16:49.10 | hans | that's what producers do |
| 16:49.44 | vontrapp | that's it has to BE running as apposed to being RUN when it's needed |
| 16:50.42 | vontrapp | imagine this file being like a symlink, where it's just a text file with a flag that instead of saying go to this file, says run this command |
| 16:51.13 | hans | #!/bin/sh |
| 16:52.06 | vontrapp | hans: you obviously don't think it as cool as i do |
| 16:52.13 | hans | I agree it would be fun to have. I don't see that it would be anything more than the equivalent of syntactic sugar. |
| 16:52.33 | hans | that takes a heckuvalot of effort to make (for the filesystem people) |
| 16:52.49 | vontrapp | the big thing is being able to access it LIKE a file, where inline command execution won't work |
| 16:52.51 | hans | (or you need a microkernel, see hurd and how long it has taken to get here) |
| 16:53.19 | Bradipo | vontrapp: I think its a fascinating idea, but don't really see a good application. |
| 16:53.27 | Bradipo | Except in attaching signatures to emails. |
| 16:53.40 | mrpull | vontrapp: with the upcoming database style filesystems... I could see your idea working |
| 16:53.56 | mrpull | in icon that represents a query of some sort |
| 16:54.28 | vontrapp | ok, the seed is planted, go about your daily things, and think about how you might do things if such a thing was available |
| 16:54.43 | vontrapp | it won't by any means be a lot of things, but they're out there |
| 16:55.48 | Bradipo | Basically, you want to reproduce the popen (and related calls) as a static filesystem semantic. |
| 16:56.07 | vontrapp | not familiar with popen |
| 16:56.10 | hans | write a pipe filesystem, mount it somewhere, and symlink into it. |
| 16:56.14 | Bradipo | In that everytime the file is opened, you get a dynamic result. |
| 16:56.20 | hans | popen is used for making unnamed pipes |
| 16:56.51 | vontrapp | ok fine, do i call it pfs or pipefs? |
| 16:56.55 | hans | echo cmd > /superfifos/foo |
| 16:57.08 | hans | ln -s /superfifos/foo ~/foo |
| 16:57.10 | hans | cat foo |
| 16:57.15 | hans | (output of cmd) |
| 16:58.08 | Bradipo | echo cmd > /dynamic/foo |
| 16:58.12 | Bradipo | sh /dynamic/foo |
| 16:58.28 | vontrapp | bah, there's that 'sh' again |
| 16:58.32 | Bradipo | lol |
| 16:58.38 | hans | sh sh mmmm |
| 16:58.46 | vontrapp | lol |
| 16:59.34 | hans | have I mentioned yet today that I hate notes? |
| 16:59.37 | Bradipo | So, is the purpose to hide from the user that this file is actually a command? |
| 16:59.56 | vontrapp | no, the purpose is to make the command available AS a file |
| 17:00.15 | hans | so notes has this ldap server. cool. it even exports the user's "internet password" as userPassword. cool. Oh, but it's not a standard hash, it's some crazy proprietary variant of md2. not cool. |
| 17:00.18 | Bradipo | hans: The last time I actually had anything to do with Notes was when I was a user of it, and it sucked then. I imagine nothing has changed in years. |
| 17:00.36 | Bradipo | vontrapp: For use in scripts I imagine? |
| 17:00.43 | hans | he wants to do |
| 17:00.49 | vontrapp | for use whereever useful |
| 17:00.50 | hans | #include "dynamicheader.h" |
| 17:01.09 | vontrapp | that's not what i want to do, but it's a possibility, yes |
| 17:01.18 | hans | you don't know what you want to do. ;-) |
| 17:01.20 | Bradipo | Well, I can't see much use in a C program since you could easily do it using popen and other similar functions. |
| 17:01.25 | hans | you just know how you want to do it. |
| 17:02.02 | hans | Bradipo: well that example is c preprocessor |
| 17:02.07 | Bradipo | Right. |
| 17:02.08 | hans | but you could easily use a make rul |
| 17:02.11 | Bradipo | Exactly. |
| 17:02.12 | vontrapp | like i said, i've had a few times where i said to myself, if i had such a file, it would be perfect right here |
| 17:02.28 | Bradipo | DJB does a lot of dynamic .h file creation, have a look at his Makefiles. :-) |
| 17:02.56 | Bradipo | I'm trying to imagine a place where I could use such a file... |
| 17:03.00 | vontrapp | you guys are taking my examples and twisting them against me :p |
| 17:03.23 | hans | that's just our point. we think it's cool but not ultimately needed above what we already have |
| 17:03.34 | hans | but it would make a good hurd posterboy |
| 17:03.48 | hans | I can see hoards of minions getting more excited about that than PHP |
| 17:04.26 | vontrapp | who needs hurd? just a kernel patch |
| 17:04.36 | hans | for every filesystem? |
| 17:04.55 | vontrapp | do you need special code in every fs for symlinks? |
| 17:05.14 | hans | dunno |
| 17:05.19 | vontrapp | i really don't see this as being very hard |
| 17:05.44 | vontrapp | hans: i don't know either |
| 17:05.46 | Bradipo | Neither do I, just not very practical. |
| 17:06.26 | vontrapp | or like mrpull said, a file that's a db query |
| 17:06.38 | vontrapp | there are uses, i promise you ;) |
| 17:07.10 | Bradipo | The next time I come upon a situation where this file would be useful and I don't replace it with something that already works, I'll try to let you know. :-) |
| 17:07.44 | vontrapp | but if you didn't HAVE to replace it with something that already works, but with magnitudes more work |
| 17:08.03 | vontrapp | (well, maybe not magnitudes) |
| 17:10.02 | vontrapp | it's like this, i wrote a little program called pad |
| 17:10.11 | vontrapp | pad 4 returns 04 |
| 17:10.18 | vontrapp | pad 4 3 return 004 |
| 17:10.35 | vontrapp | you would never think such a simple thing so useful, but i've used it TONS since i wrote it |
| 17:16.07 | vontrapp | ~spell anticedent |
| 17:16.42 | vontrapp | ibot, thx |
| 17:16.42 | ibot | np |
| 17:19.19 | Bradipo | vontrapp: Actually, I think pad would be a very useful program. |
| 17:19.29 | Bradipo | There are a number of times where padded numbers would be handy in scripting. |
| 17:19.37 | vontrapp | it's all of two lines, plus #! /usr/bin/ruby |
| 17:19.46 | Bradipo | jot already does padding though. |
| 17:19.51 | hans | jot? |
| 17:19.57 | hans | it could be done in shell too, with a printf |
| 17:20.20 | colera | debian is nice |
| 17:20.22 | Bradipo | jot is another one of those nifty useful utilities that exist in BSD but not Linux. :-) |
| 17:20.32 | vontrapp | athena-jot? |
| 17:20.34 | Bradipo | Its like seq, but does a lot more. |
| 17:20.54 | vontrapp | printf's aren't fun to type all the time |
| 17:21.08 | vontrapp | but that's pretty much all that's in pad |
| 17:21.16 | Bradipo | Right. |
| 17:21.22 | Bradipo | And that seems useful. |
| 17:22.09 | Bradipo | How do you do zero padded in printf? I've forgotten. :-) |
| 17:22.26 | Bradipo | Ahh 0. |
| 17:22.49 | Bradipo | jot -w %0.3d 1 4 |
| 17:22.55 | Bradipo | Does the same as your pad 4 3 |
| 17:23.14 | hans | printf %03d 4 |
| 17:23.31 | hans | sorry, printf has jot beat |
| 17:23.53 | Bradipo | As far as succinctness goes, yes. |
| 17:24.20 | Bradipo | jot -w %03d 1 4 |
| 17:24.24 | vontrapp | jot is really nice, thx for introducing me, Bradipo |
| 17:24.26 | Bradipo | Best I can do if I eliminate the . :-) |
| 17:24.39 | Bradipo | I use jot all the time to generate the alphabet and stuff like that. |
| 17:25.31 | Bradipo | jot -c 26 a |
| 17:28.23 | Bradipo | Hmm, I learned a new command... |
| 17:28.24 | Bradipo | rs |
| 17:28.30 | Bradipo | rs - reshape a data array |
| 17:28.53 | vontrapp | isn't there a printf type for binary? |
| 17:29.11 | Bradipo | You mean just print as is? |
| 17:29.31 | vontrapp | no, like %d or %h |
| 17:29.40 | hans | nope |
| 17:29.47 | vontrapp | why the heck not? |
| 17:30.09 | hans | now that is one program I have been meaning to write. a line calculator for me |
| 17:30.34 | hans | a hybrid of dc, bc, my HP48G and C syntax |
| 17:30.49 | hans | and one of the primary functions would be base conversoin |
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| 17:31.00 | vontrapp | i wrote a base converter |
| 17:31.05 | hans | you can convert to binary with bc, I think, but it's a pain |
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| 17:31.26 | hans | that will be a fun project with lex/yacc and readline |
| 17:31.27 | vontrapp | it only does dec hex bin, not arbitrary bases |
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| 18:42.41 | lars-ut | lol |
| 18:42.49 | lars-ut | I'm messing around with a script |
| 18:44.33 | lars-ut | ~emulate Ms Bitters |
| 18:44.33 | ibot | The lesson here is that dreams inevitably lead to hideous implosions. That's why the skool has instituted this test. |
| 18:45.08 | tensai | I got my son hooked on Zim. Not sure yet if I'm happy with that |
| 18:45.16 | lars-ut | lol |
| 18:45.32 | lars-ut | I have been very careful to shield my kids from it |
| 18:45.43 | lars-ut | My sweetie would tan my hide |
| 18:46.16 | lars-ut | My oldest son broke the tv antenna a few months back - I haven't & won't bother to fix it. |
| 18:48.11 | lars-ut | My kids are now limited to Videos/DVDs/MPEG-4s & their non-networked computer. They play outside more. |
| 18:52.18 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@obelix.cs.byu.edu) |
| 19:06.23 | tensai | yay! 92mbps instead of 7 |
| 19:06.41 | tene | you don't need 92mbps! |
| 19:06.54 | tensai | ~lart silly network cards that *claim* they do 100M full duplex but really don't |
| 19:07.54 | tensai | tene: well of course I do. doesn't everybody? |
| 19:08.55 | Bradipo | Does pluglist have a ``post-only'' option? |
| 19:11.21 | hans | Bradipo: I believe you can set it to not deliver but it would still allow you to post |
| 19:11.25 | hans | why? |
| 19:11.33 | Bradipo | Just wondering... :-) |
| 19:11.55 | Bradipo | I was thinking of the posting ``PLUG have a 30 minute delay on emails?'' |
| 19:12.31 | lars-ut | sung to the 12 days of Christmas: 5 CAT5 cables, 4 gigabit nics, 3 of nothing, 2 used Dells from storage, one 8-port switch and an orange crossover cable... |
| 19:12.33 | hans | any email could have a 30 minute delay and nobody should panick |
| 19:12.34 | Bradipo | And thought, maybe I could help reduce some of the load from the server by subscribing a speedy ezmlm mailing list to the list and posting instructions on how to get onto it, and also changing the original subscription as post-only. |
| 19:12.47 | Bradipo | Basically, distribute the load of the mailing list. |
| 19:13.03 | hans | the server ain't loaded. |
| 19:13.19 | Bradipo | Ok. |
| 19:13.28 | lars-ut | On the sixth day of July Lars began to build... a pfsense multihomed redundant firewall... |
| 19:13.34 | Bradipo | But it would still be fun nonetheless. :-) |
| 19:14.38 | hans | Bradipo: now, make it a nntp gateway and that would be FUN |
| 19:14.53 | Bradipo | Hehe, I'm not big into NNTP anymore. |
| 19:15.42 | Bradipo | Any idea how many actual subscribers pluglist does have? |
| 19:15.56 | hans | nntp has one major advantage over email lists - no subscription necessary |
| 19:16.26 | hans | 428 |
| 19:16.55 | Bradipo | Right, NNTP is much better for anonymous postings, but I thought that was against the policy of the list anyway. |
| 19:16.57 | hans | no subscription = no hassle. perfect for the occasional browse |
| 19:17.06 | hans | I'm talking about reading |
| 19:17.10 | Bradipo | Oh, are you talking about a one-way ... |
| 19:17.21 | Bradipo | Right. |
| 19:17.28 | hans | I HATE having to subscribe to some stupid list just to lurk occasionally |
| 19:17.38 | Bradipo | Well, didn't we subscribe the archiver to the list? |
| 19:17.45 | hans | there's archives |
| 19:18.02 | hans | it's ok, but then you've distributed your groups all over the web, not using one nntp client |
| 19:18.11 | Bradipo | Right. |
| 19:18.39 | xbmodder-screen | Is it hard to setup an NNTP server |
| 19:18.40 | xbmodder-screen | ? |
| 19:18.48 | hans | it's also easier to remember rec.food.sourdough than http://somedude.com/why/do/we/need/long/urls/sourdough/Archives.html |
| 19:19.01 | Bradipo | Yeah, but what about this: http://www.mail-archive.com/plug%40plug.org/ |
| 19:19.42 | Bradipo | xbmodder-screen: Not necessarily, but it is different. |
| 19:19.50 | hans | ugh. utter failure to properly thread |
| 19:19.53 | xbmodder-screen | A couple ISPs block NNTP |
| 19:20.12 | Bradipo | hans: This is mostly the fault of the email clients. |
| 19:20.12 | xbmodder-screen | *I hate you SBC* |
| 19:20.19 | Bradipo | I guess most NNTP clients are properly written. |
| 19:20.30 | xbmodder-screen | which NNTP server is the best |
| 19:20.31 | Bradipo | Because they were written back when the Internet had *real* developers on it. :-) |
| 19:20.33 | hans | Bradipo: I was referring to mail-archive's thread index |
| 19:20.57 | hans | I happen to know that those threads are mostly unbroken since I read them in mutt |
| 19:21.20 | hans | e.g. the Wireless Masochism thread |
| 19:21.30 | *** part/#utah linuxalien (~bastage@c-24-2-80-89.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 19:21.32 | tensai | Outlook is the worst for threading |
| 19:21.57 | tensai | it breaks normal threads and the threaded view it has is practically useless |
| 19:25.27 | *** join/#utah tyce (~tyce@fw.oremut02.us.wh.verio.net) |
| 19:25.58 | tyce | anyone in here know of a good way to search and replace contents of a file without actually opening the file? |
| 19:26.18 | tene | clarify "opening" |
| 19:26.34 | tene | 'cause if nothing actually opens the file to read it... |
| 19:27.16 | xbmodder-screen | what he said |
| 19:27.42 | gthornock | You can search and replace with sed, or with perl, but they do have to open the file to work on it. What they don't have to do is display it in vi :) |
| 19:28.00 | tene | Yay, all these vital applications on this box I'm migrating won't run on 64-bit windows! |
| 19:28.01 | xbmodder-screen | vi sucks |
| 19:28.08 | tyce | I just want to be able to run a script against a bunch of files, search for a string, replace it with a string without opening each file. |
| 19:28.14 | tene | sed |
| 19:28.23 | tene | but that opens the files |
| 19:28.45 | tene | I'd personally do perl -pi -e 's/foo/bar/' |
| 19:28.49 | tyce | ok, but can you open it without redirecting the oput to a different file? |
| 19:29.16 | gthornock | I'd use sed -i.bak "s/old/new/g" $file |
| 19:29.34 | tyce | nice |
| 19:29.37 | gthornock | The Perl command does essentially the same thing. |
| 19:29.54 | tyce | I think that perl command will work perfectly |
| 19:29.55 | gthornock | In either case, the -i switch does in-place editing on the file. |
| 19:30.15 | tyce | thank you very very much |
| 19:31.28 | xbmodder-screen | or python -c "f=file('<file>').read();f.replace('old','new');m=file('<file>');m.write(f);m.close" |
| 19:32.53 | tyce | hahahahahaa |
| 19:32.54 | tyce | nice |
| 19:33.22 | xbmodder-screen | that is what I do |
| 19:33.37 | xbmodder-screen | actually in most cases that won't ork |
| 19:33.38 | xbmodder-screen | work |
| 19:33.49 | gthornock | lars-ut: is pfsense still in alpha? |
| 19:34.02 | lars-ut | yep |
| 19:34.09 | gthornock | Darn. |
| 19:34.11 | lars-ut | good enough for the nrc |
| 19:34.39 | gthornock | True. |
| 19:35.19 | lars-ut | I was warned about updates or upgrading, though. |
| 19:36.06 | gthornock | Does it have ALTQ enabled? |
| 19:36.20 | lars-ut | join #pfsense and ask the devleopers about any conerns you might have - GeekGod & hoba have been very helpful |
| 19:36.38 | xbmodder-screen | what is pfsense |
| 19:37.16 | lars-ut | gthornock: ALTQ is enabled. |
| 19:38.04 | lars-ut | pfsense is a great firewall based on freeBSD |
| 19:38.20 | gthornock | ~pfsense |
| 19:38.39 | lars-ut | xbmodder-screen: http://www.pfsense.com/index.php?id=1 |
| 19:38.53 | lars-ut | ibot should have picked up on that |
| 19:39.03 | gthornock | ibot: pfSense is a great firewall based on FreeBSD and pf. |
| 19:39.03 | ibot | gthornock: okay |
| 19:39.11 | xbmodder-screen | thats the pf firewall |
| 19:39.13 | gthornock | ibot: pfsense is see pfSense |
| 19:39.13 | ibot | ...but pfsense is already something else... |
| 19:39.19 | gthornock | ~pfsense |
| 19:39.19 | ibot | from memory, pfsense is a great firewall based on FreeBSD and pf. |
| 19:39.36 | xbmodder-screen | ~xbmodder |
| 19:39.36 | ibot | from memory, xbmodder is a world record setting 14 year old great guy who lives in paradise |
| 19:39.51 | lars-ut | ~lars-ut |
| 19:40.31 | xbmodder-screen | ~say from memory, lars-ut was really cool and should and does worship xbmodder |
| 19:40.31 | ibot | from memory, lars-ut was really cool and should and does worship xbmodder |
| 19:40.55 | xbmodder-screen | lars-ut: see ibot knew you, itjust took him ~60 seconds |
| 19:41.49 | lars-ut | what is lars-ut? |
| 19:42.09 | lars-ut | weird - I defined myself before. |
| 19:42.21 | lars-ut | ~literal lars-ut |
| 19:42.21 | ibot | "lars-ut" is "a cool advocate, and a sith. Now that you are aware of this information you are in grave danger." |
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| 19:51.50 | goozbach | that doesn't sound like it's gonna end well. |
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| 20:17.27 | hans | ~lart goozbach for fun |
| 20:17.51 | goozbach | hans: what was that for? |
| 20:18.05 | goozbach | see if I do my presentation at PLUG now! |
| 20:19.38 | hans | it was for fun |
| 20:20.09 | hans | what presentation will you be doing? |
| 20:21.14 | goozbach | XEN |
| 20:22.33 | hans | is that the thing that's kind of like vmware? |
| 20:22.57 | hans | and how do you pronounce it? shen or zen? |
| 20:25.19 | goozbach | zen |
| 20:26.31 | mrpull | goozbach: sign me up for the xen demo |
| 20:32.56 | goozbach | the 13th |
| 20:59.23 | gthornock | goozbach: not July 13, I hope? |
| 20:59.50 | gthornock | Because I'd love to come to a Xen presentation, but I'm gone all that week |
| 21:08.16 | *** join/#utah dataw0lf (~dataw0lf@66.219.227.114) |
| 21:09.59 | mrpull | ahhh rats. I too have plans for 7/13 |
| 21:09.59 | *** part/#utah dataw0lf (~dataw0lf@66.219.227.114) |
| 21:11.12 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (~bastage@c-24-2-80-89.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 21:14.35 | *** join/#utah sjansen (~sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 21:14.42 | tene | gthornock: leave a webcam and microphone in the presentation room |
| 21:14.56 | sjansen | As Sprint is my witness, I shall never be without techno again! |
| 21:15.06 | tene | oh? |
| 21:15.27 | sjansen | Pocket Tunes on the Treo 650 using Sprint data access. |
| 21:16.14 | sjansen | Digitally Importer, of course. |
| 21:16.23 | tene | Ooo... |
| 21:16.30 | tene | stupid jerk |
| 21:16.32 | tene | I hate you |
| 21:17.10 | sjansen | Well... there is one problem. I can't share the connection with my laptop and use pocket tunes at the same time. |
| 21:17.37 | sjansen | And the laptop connection is too laggy for streaming. |
| 21:17.42 | sjansen | But it's close enough! |
| 21:17.45 | tene | heh |
| 21:17.59 | tene | I wouldnt think latency would have much effect on streaming |
| 21:18.20 | sjansen | I didn't think it would either, but it did. |
| 21:18.26 | tene | how does it affect it? |
| 21:18.37 | sjansen | Couldn't keep the buffer full. |
| 21:19.42 | tene | ahh |
| 21:19.51 | tene | and that's not a bandwidth issue? |
| 21:20.18 | sjansen | Over all, band width is surprisingly good. |
| 21:20.35 | sjansen | But you _really_ notice if a protocol has any round trip overhead. |
| 21:24.45 | hans | bigger buffer |
| 21:25.06 | xbmodder-screen | heylo |
| 21:32.41 | *** join/#utah bonez39 (~aint@drjones.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 21:33.07 | xbmodder-screen | bonez39: what does your name mean? are you some kinda archeolihist? |
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| 22:13.07 | vontrapp | sjansen: finally have a more recent kernel and full res and glx |
| 22:13.15 | sjansen | Yay! |
| 22:13.25 | vontrapp | it's great |
| 22:13.42 | vontrapp | i had a bear of a time with the ndiswrapper though |
| 22:14.04 | vontrapp | it was actually loadndisdriver in ubuntu that was not anything like the one i used |
| 22:14.19 | vontrapp | and i couldn't get it working, so i compiled the same version i had before and that worked |
| 22:14.22 | sjansen | You got ndiswrapper working?! |
| 22:14.26 | vontrapp | si |
| 22:14.30 | sjansen | 64bit? |
| 22:14.32 | vontrapp | no |
| 22:14.38 | sjansen | ah :-( |
| 22:14.47 | goozbach | ha ha |
| 22:14.52 | vontrapp | ~lart goozbach |
| 22:15.04 | goozbach | ~mock sjansen's non-standard hardware |
| 22:15.04 | ibot | ACTION pulls sjansen's non-standard hardware's pants down and shows the world sjansen's non-standard hardware's pink spotted underwear |
| 22:15.30 | vontrapp | i thought pink spotted underwear /was/ standard |
| 22:15.34 | sjansen | goozbach: I will have you know that Mandr{ake,iva} has never come near this laptop. |
| 22:19.44 | goozbach | I bet if you did, things would work better |
| 22:20.33 | xbmodder-screen | what? |
| 22:20.56 | xbmodder-screen | I want a large cement tux in my front lawn |
| 22:24.36 | *** join/#utah misterpull (~misterpul@xmjake.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 22:24.38 | vontrapp | how about a couple large cement tux's holding up your porch roof? |
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| 22:39.28 | goozbach | vontrapp: ala Atlas? |
| 22:39.43 | vontrapp | sure |
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| 23:32.25 | linuxalien | Hello Utah! |
| 23:35.40 | jsmith | Hello linuxalien |
| 23:36.31 | linuxalien | What's happening? |
| 23:37.29 | jsmith | I'm getting old and fat. |
| 23:39.53 | linuxalien | Me too. Too many pizzas and twinkies. |
| 23:47.40 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@216-190-206-130.customer.csolutions.net) |
