| 02:40.35 | *** join/#utah ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 02:40.35 | *** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com. See planetutah.adelantellc.com for aggregate feeds. | May the source be with you! | This week : Wednesday NUPM meeting (CGI::Path) 6:30 | Plug meeting (Ruby on Rails) 7:30 |
| 02:40.35 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 02:56.39 | *** join/#utah misterpull (~mrpull@xmjake.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 03:16.54 | *** topic/#utah by GvzEvxre -> The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com. See planetutah.adelantellc.com for aggregate feeds. | May the source be with you! | This week : Wednesday NUPM meeting (CGI::Path) 6:30 | Plug meeting (Ruby on Rails) 7:30 | http://action.eff.org/site/Advocacy?id=145 |
| 03:28.25 | TimRiker | er make that 1000 pounds |
| 03:28.45 | emcnabb | do I get to keep a %? |
| 03:28.46 | roscivs | Is one allowed to play with it while it's being "stored"? |
| 03:29.07 | TimRiker | heh. you can push the buttons if you like, but you can't yet plug any of it in. |
| 03:29.19 | roscivs | No deal then ;-) |
| 03:29.25 | TimRiker | http://rikers.org/gallery/hardware/20050615_012504 |
| 03:29.49 | TimRiker | you can come to south jordan and play with it after I get it working. ;-) |
| 03:30.01 | emcnabb | nice |
| 03:30.05 | roscivs | Wow. |
| 03:30.21 | roscivs | It reminds me of ... |
| 03:30.27 | roscivs | "What would a computer do |
| 03:30.34 | roscivs | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:30.36 | TimRiker | if you have any paper tapes, I'd be happy to read them in once the system works. |
| 03:34.56 | TimRiker | lots of planning for this move =/ |
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| 04:13.30 | misterpull | hrrmmm... my /var/hack dir went missing on my tivo |
| 04:13.45 | misterpull | there was a power outage at my house today |
| 04:13.49 | misterpull | maybe that was the cause |
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| 07:44.30 | levi | Ahh, homework is done. |
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| 14:56.07 | levi | Good morning. |
| 14:56.16 | hans | yes, it's payday |
| 14:57.19 | tensai | why are there two of me? |
| 14:57.32 | tensai | and good riddance! |
| 14:59.05 | levi | Not yet payday for me, but I keep a big enough buffer in my account that I don't worry about when payday is. |
| 14:59.37 | hans | same here, they just happened to be walking around with paystubs when you said good morning |
| 15:05.21 | mheath | Good morning! |
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| 15:07.59 | levi | Payday does always give one a happy feeling, though. |
| 15:08.06 | levi | Mmm, money. |
| 15:08.14 | levi | I need to stop spending it so fast. |
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| 15:14.29 | mheath | levi: unless you work at the same place as me, then payday gives you a feeling of fear and extreme disappointment. :D |
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| 15:15.04 | levi | mheath: That's too bad. Some money's better than none, though. |
| 15:15.09 | mheath | Yeah |
| 15:15.15 | mheath | I'm hopefully getting a better job soon, anyway. |
| 15:15.34 | mheath | I have quite a bit of money at the moment, and none of its from my job |
| 15:15.50 | mheath | all stuff that I got from my birthday..... |
| 15:16.34 | levi | Well, hopefully you can solve your hardware woes now. |
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| 15:16.42 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 15:16.52 | mheath | Heh, nope. Certain things are higher on my priority list than getting new hardware |
| 15:16.52 | levi | Got $450? Wanna buy an eMac? ;) |
| 15:16.56 | mheath | Haha |
| 15:16.56 | vontrapp | what do you folks make of this? |
| 15:16.58 | vontrapp | Inconsistency detected by ld.so: ../sysdeps/i386/dl-machine.h: 647: elf_machine_rel_relative: Assertion `((reloc->r_info) & 0xff) == 8' failed! |
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| 15:17.11 | levi | vontrapp: Sounds nasty. |
| 15:17.56 | mheath | levi: I'd love an emac, but unfortunately I don't have $450 :( |
| 15:18.22 | levi | Alas. |
| 15:18.38 | mheath | I'm going to get a PowerBook next summer, though, when I join the Navy :) |
| 15:18.57 | levi | That'll be nice. |
| 15:19.09 | mheath | Yeah |
| 15:19.10 | levi | I wonder if it'll be x86 at that point. |
| 15:19.21 | mheath | You'll probably have the option |
| 15:19.29 | mheath | They said they were going to start offering x86 models in 2006 |
| 15:19.43 | mheath | But I don't think they said the full transition would be until 2007 or 2008... |
| 15:20.00 | mheath | I'm definantly going to go with the PPC model if I have that option |
| 15:21.39 | vontrapp | blasted, reinstall ldso didn't fix it |
| 15:21.58 | scott | anyone know of a good but simple job tracker? one of my coworkers wants me to write one for him, but I'd rather not write it if a good one already exists. basically people create contacts, insert jobs, and then he views them and makes any notes of what he did and clicks done or whatever. |
| 15:22.42 | Jayce^ | rt |
| 15:22.50 | Jayce^ | rt.bestpractical.com |
| 15:23.15 | levi | mheath: I figured they'd do laptops first, since those are the models hurting the most for an upgrade. |
| 15:23.37 | vontrapp | hans: you'll be amused to know that i'm getting this error trying to set up a printer |
| 15:23.44 | mheath | vontrapp: try rebooting? |
| 15:23.54 | vontrapp | i hate rebooting |
| 15:23.57 | mheath | I say that because I'm looking through some old mailing posts related to a similar problem |
| 15:24.06 | mheath | some guy was running a LiveCD, and got a similar error |
| 15:24.08 | mheath | rebooting fixed it |
| 15:24.25 | vontrapp | no livecd, but... *sigh* |
| 15:24.46 | scott | Jayce^: I wonder if RT isn't overkill |
| 15:25.04 | Jayce^ | can be, but it does what you want, just don't use the extra stuff |
| 15:26.28 | hans | scott: look at backpack. backpackit.com |
| 15:26.40 | hans | might be too simplistic, but it might be just perfect. |
| 15:26.56 | scott | hans, that was initially what I was looking at, but in order for someone to post to his list they'd have to create an account there |
| 15:27.22 | hans | true |
| 15:27.36 | hans | most solutions would have that req though, wouldn't they? |
| 15:27.45 | hans | or do you want anyone to be able to spam it? |
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| 15:28.22 | scott | well if we run it on one of the comps here it would be internal |
| 15:29.05 | Jayce^ | aren't they a service only? |
| 15:29.11 | Jayce^ | or do they release code? |
| 15:29.33 | hans | service |
| 15:29.33 | levi | Service-only, last I saw. |
| 15:29.52 | vontrapp | nope, still get the error |
| 15:30.03 | scott | yeah, sorry, the running it internally would be for other solutions I guess |
| 15:31.18 | vontrapp | i just want to print!! |
| 15:31.19 | hans | scott: if money can be thrown at it, you might look into basecamp |
| 15:42.56 | tensai | I've never run RT, but I was quite impressed with my investigation of it |
| 15:47.43 | tensai | for a project management tool, I like NetOffice |
| 15:51.03 | Jayce^ | we're running it here, very powerful system |
| 16:00.39 | tensai | we use a ticket tracker that's built into our billing system. it's foxpro based. |
| 16:01.44 | hans | so one user's PC decides to try to become domain master fairly frequently. Samba forces reelection and wins, but it seems odd that this PC is so aggressive. Is there a setting in windows for that? |
| 16:11.05 | levi | It's right next to the 'crash regularly' setting in the secret registry. |
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| 16:13.14 | tensai | hans: are you running a domain or a workgroup? |
| 16:14.54 | Jayce^ | ewww, foxpro :) |
| 16:15.08 | hans | domain |
| 16:15.41 | tensai | I don't think it should ever force an election then, should it? is that PC a domain member? |
| 16:15.50 | tensai | what version of windows, btw? |
| 16:17.56 | macnewbold | ~rot13 GvzEvxre |
| 16:17.56 | ibot | TimRiker |
| 16:18.40 | macnewbold | by the way, everyone: |
| 16:18.48 | macnewbold | there's a UPHPU meeting tonight |
| 16:18.57 | macnewbold | at Linux Networx (point of the mountain) |
| 16:19.09 | Jayce^ | update the topic |
| 16:19.19 | macnewbold | Basic Linux network security, troubleshooting & tips |
| 16:19.26 | macnewbold | by bigdog_ut and dataw0lf |
| 16:19.34 | macnewbold | should be a great time for everyone |
| 16:19.42 | macnewbold | and I think there will be donuts |
| 16:20.45 | *** topic/#utah by macnewbold -> UPHPU Tonight, 7pm, LinuxNetworx, "Basic Linux network security, troubleshooting & tips" by bigdog_ut and dataw0lf | The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com. See planetutah.adelantellc.com for aggregate feeds. | May the source be with you! | This week : Wednesday NUPM meeting (CGI::Path) 6:30 | Plug meeting (Ruby on Rails) 7:30 | http://action.eff |
| 16:20.51 | macnewbold | holy topic, batman |
| 16:21.08 | Jayce^ | might want to remove the old plug/nupm stuff |
| 16:21.11 | macnewbold | yeah |
| 16:21.34 | tyce | GREAT MOVIE |
| 16:21.38 | *** topic/#utah by macnewbold -> UPHPU Tonight, 7pm, LinuxNetworx, "Basic Linux network security, troubleshooting & tips" by bigdog_ut and dataw0lf | The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, uphpu.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com. See planetutah.adelantellc.com for aggregate feeds. | http://action.eff |
| 16:21.46 | macnewbold | tyce: which one? |
| 16:21.49 | Jayce^ | tyce, which? |
| 16:21.54 | tyce | batman |
| 16:21.56 | tyce | begins |
| 16:22.05 | Jayce^ | was pretty good |
| 16:22.11 | tyce | if you haven't seen it yet, you should |
| 16:22.13 | Jayce^ | definately better than the last ones :) |
| 16:22.17 | tyce | 'pretty good'?!?!?!?! |
| 16:22.20 | dataw0lf|w | I've heard it was pretty awesome |
| 16:22.21 | tyce | are you kidding me? |
| 16:22.30 | hans | it looks good |
| 16:22.40 | tyce | one of the best I've seen in a long while |
| 16:22.40 | Jayce^ | no, it was good, only two things really bugged me about it |
| 16:22.47 | tyce | whats that? |
| 16:23.05 | tyce | aside from all the 'TomKat' crap leading up to it |
| 16:23.09 | Jayce^ | the guy playing batman was good, but seemed to always be forcing his voice different when he was talking |
| 16:23.23 | tyce | yeah, when he was batman he was |
| 16:23.34 | Jayce^ | and the "microwave" device that seemed to only effect the specific water they wanted, not all water :) |
| 16:23.39 | tyce | he had to though to fool Katie Holme's character |
| 16:23.44 | Jayce^ | shoulda had a much larger effect on people.. |
| 16:23.48 | tyce | true |
| 16:23.59 | Jayce^ | those were the only parts that bugged me |
| 16:24.10 | Jayce^ | but yes, I'd say the best batman movie.. |
| 16:24.13 | tyce | but I feel batman/bruce wayne was a very believable character this time around |
| 16:24.16 | Jayce^ | most the supporting actors did great |
| 16:24.19 | Jayce^ | yes |
| 16:24.26 | tyce | yeah they did |
| 16:24.29 | Jayce^ | I really liked the whole development part with liam neeson |
| 16:24.31 | tyce | awesome performaces |
| 16:24.58 | tyce | yeah, it was definately a deeper batman movie |
| 16:25.26 | tyce | I loved the tie-ins for the essence of fear |
| 16:25.45 | Jayce^ | the thing I like most about it, especially over the previous ones is that it really makes batman a believable super-hero |
| 16:25.51 | mheath | Any batman movie that lacks the words "Pow" and "Wham!" in large letters is good to me ;) |
| 16:25.54 | tyce | and the making of a man/symbol/legend |
| 16:26.10 | Jayce^ | seeing the scarecrow develop was good |
| 16:26.11 | mheath | Those early Batman movies still crack me up |
| 16:26.14 | tyce | yeah I loved taht too |
| 16:26.33 | tyce | just a well done movie, I really hope they do another one |
| 16:26.37 | macnewbold | the cartoons were the best |
| 16:26.42 | tyce | :) |
| 16:26.43 | macnewbold | and yeah, the old adam west shows |
| 16:26.50 | Jayce^ | batman and robin with scooby-doo :) |
| 16:27.07 | macnewbold | hehe |
| 16:27.08 | macnewbold | yeah |
| 16:27.21 | macnewbold | they have that DVD at hollywood video, if you can believe it |
| 16:27.38 | mheath | batman cartoons |
| 16:27.47 | mheath | that was part of my morning fare as a 8 year old |
| 16:28.07 | mheath | Batman cartoons, power rangers, mario brothers..... |
| 16:29.46 | hans | liam's beard looks almost as bad as this guy's in the previews: http://www.startrek.com/startrek/mediaview?id=2102267&episodeid=68700&count=-1 |
| 16:29.52 | Jayce^ | ??? you are young! |
| 16:30.09 | Jayce^ | hans, not quite that bad :) |
| 16:30.19 | Jayce^ | it's a little more fitting for his location |
| 16:30.36 | mheath | Who's young? |
| 16:30.36 | hans | ok, not _quite_ that bad. ;-) |
| 16:30.37 | mheath | Me? |
| 16:30.40 | mheath | I know :) |
| 16:31.04 | mheath | Turned 16 two days ago |
| 16:31.11 | Jayce^ | gahh... |
| 16:31.13 | Jayce^ | child! |
| 16:31.16 | mheath | Haha. |
| 16:31.19 | mheath | Indeed :) |
| 16:31.20 | *** join/#utah decriptor (~decriptor@166.70.98.58) |
| 16:31.29 | Jayce^ | pretty bad when *I* start feeling old |
| 16:31.47 | mheath | hahaha. |
| 16:31.52 | decriptor | what's with the UPHPU meeting |
| 16:32.01 | decriptor | basic linux network security |
| 16:32.02 | decriptor | ? |
| 16:32.21 | macnewbold | yep |
| 16:32.24 | levi | Don't want your php server getting ownz0red, do you? |
| 16:32.30 | decriptor | what does that have to do with php |
| 16:32.32 | jsmith | Who is teaching it? |
| 16:32.38 | macnewbold | dataw0lf|w and bigdog_ut |
| 16:33.01 | macnewbold | decriptor: it's very related to web development |
| 16:33.03 | macnewbold | and php security |
| 16:33.04 | Jayce^ | php and bad security go hand in hand.. didn't you know? :-D |
| 16:33.05 | decriptor | just an interesting topic for a php group |
| 16:33.13 | macnewbold | yeah, kinda |
| 16:33.22 | macnewbold | but we're a pretty open group |
| 16:33.31 | dataw0lf|w | I think it's easier for most php developers to, like, pick up X function |
| 16:33.31 | macnewbold | anything related to web development is considered fair game |
| 16:33.35 | dataw0lf|w | or X library |
| 16:33.41 | decriptor | I could easily see that on a linux group |
| 16:33.57 | dataw0lf|w | security and system administration, however, are relevant, and will most likely benefit their application design as well. |
| 16:34.01 | decriptor | for a php group maybe making your php more secure on linux :? |
| 16:34.15 | decriptor | I can see how it helps |
| 16:34.30 | decriptor | I just had to read it twice to make sure I had the right group |
| 16:34.36 | dataw0lf|w | we're covering quite a few areas, briefly. |
| 16:34.45 | decriptor | that's cool |
| 16:34.47 | Jayce^ | decriptor, it's very fitting IMHO, always something you want to teach a developer of something facing the world |
| 16:35.03 | decriptor | true |
| 16:35.38 | decriptor | I don't argue the topic and its importance unless you want to start a flame fest then I can play along :) |
| 16:35.46 | mheath | I didn't know there was a PHP-oriented group here in Utah.. |
| 16:35.55 | macnewbold | mheath: www.uphpu.org |
| 16:35.55 | mheath | I should come. |
| 16:35.57 | macnewbold | we're cool |
| 16:35.59 | macnewbold | yeah, you should |
| 16:36.16 | mheath | I've never worked with PHP *too* much.... |
| 16:36.26 | macnewbold | that's quite a few of our members |
| 16:36.30 | macnewbold | :) |
| 16:36.35 | mheath | But then again, I was the guy our Web Development teacher always asked questions to when he couldn't figure something out :D |
| 16:36.36 | macnewbold | many are just wanting to learn more php |
| 16:36.39 | macnewbold | hehe |
| 16:36.44 | macnewbold | yeah, you should come |
| 16:36.59 | macnewbold | so does the 16 year old have transportation? |
| 16:37.07 | macnewbold | or will you be riding your bike there? |
| 16:37.11 | mheath | macnewbold: haha |
| 16:37.16 | mheath | I'll have my drivers license next week |
| 16:37.17 | macnewbold | just teasing |
| 16:37.19 | macnewbold | sweet |
| 16:37.27 | macnewbold | are you in SLC or utah valley? |
| 16:37.31 | decriptor | wow from that last discussion you got tagged |
| 16:37.45 | mheath | macnewbold: I'm up in Ogden |
| 16:37.50 | macnewbold | I'm sorry |
| 16:37.56 | mheath | Yep. |
| 16:38.01 | decriptor | ogdens a ways up there |
| 16:38.27 | mheath | Only interesting meetings up here are OALUG |
| 16:38.48 | hans | and yet we hear tell that ogden is utah's second-largest cit |
| 16:38.49 | hans | y |
| 16:38.55 | mheath | I feel kinda out of place there, the once time I came and the one time I dropped in for a moment |
| 16:39.02 | mheath | Everyones way older than me |
| 16:39.17 | decriptor | that's not too hard to accomplish :) |
| 16:39.30 | mheath | I should start UGUG ;) |
| 16:40.00 | mheath | Utah GNU Users Group |
| 16:40.06 | hans | utah geeks un-graduated? |
| 16:40.08 | decriptor | interesting idea |
| 16:40.22 | decriptor | I was thinking along the lines of hans comment |
| 16:40.28 | mheath | I doubt anyone would be too interested though |
| 16:40.34 | decriptor | un-graduated user group :) |
| 16:41.04 | *** join/#utah tsmith (~tsmith@64.50.35.114.2O7.net) |
| 16:41.04 | mheath | I've gotten a lot of crap in here from several people for any comments related to Mach+Hurd, GNU's kernel. |
| 16:41.14 | macnewbold | Utah Geeks Underage Group |
| 16:41.30 | macnewbold | Mach's okay, IMHO, but Hurd is just weird |
| 16:41.42 | mheath | macnewbold: have you seen some of the neat stuff you can do with it? |
| 16:41.47 | mheath | Translators are probably the coolest thing |
| 16:42.05 | macnewbold | no, never touched hurd |
| 16:42.12 | levi | mheath's almost as keen on Hurd as I am on Lisp. ;) |
| 16:42.17 | macnewbold | I know some of the guys that worked on mach back in the day |
| 16:42.30 | macnewbold | yeah, lisp has some cool stuff, but I'm not fond of it |
| 16:42.49 | macnewbold | sure, it can do _anything_, but trying to read the code just hurts |
| 16:42.57 | macnewbold | and writing it and debugging it is worse |
| 16:43.18 | macnewbold | and trying to do anything quickly is a joke... it's just not a rapid development language |
| 16:43.25 | hans | ibot, macnewbold wants to duel levi |
| 16:43.36 | levi | I don't have any trouble reading it, and I find it very rapid. It just takes some getting used to. |
| 16:43.37 | macnewbold | ~duel |
| 16:43.39 | ibot | ACTION offers to referee the month long staring contest between macnewbold and mrpull|mobile |
| 16:43.43 | macnewbold | hm |
| 16:43.44 | mheath | Translators let you provide certain low level protocols using userland program |
| 16:43.45 | levi | Perhaps you were using Scheme? |
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| 16:43.49 | mheath | Like.....a filesystem |
| 16:44.03 | macnewbold | no, I've used scheme and lisp both |
| 16:44.07 | mheath | I could make a ReiserFS translator, for example |
| 16:44.08 | macnewbold | didn't like either of them too well |
| 16:44.23 | mheath | Or an FTP filesystem |
| 16:44.23 | macnewbold | why have a ReiserFS translator when you can just have ReiserFS |
| 16:44.24 | macnewbold | ? |
| 16:44.27 | levi | How much did you use them, and what were you doing with them? |
| 16:44.43 | mheath | FTP filesystem is actually a really good example |
| 16:45.08 | mheath | you can set it up so, if you cd to "/ftp/ftp.whatever.com" it automatically connects to ftp.whatever.com |
| 16:45.14 | macnewbold | levi: it's hard to quantify - I used it for some projects up at the U, for about 5-6 weeks every summer for several years |
| 16:45.45 | levi | I never know what someone really means when they say 'I tried Lisp and I don't like it'. It ranges from 'I saw some Scheme code and ran away screaming' to 'I developed some applications with it for a while and never got to like it'. |
| 16:45.53 | mheath | macnewbold: its nice because everythings userland |
| 16:46.07 | mheath | entire parts of the operating system can be swapped out without a reboot |
| 16:46.17 | mheath | interesting new features can be added without a reboot |
| 16:46.29 | Jayce^ | levi, I think it goes along with my theory on how each person tends to gravitate to the language that fits their mental patterns :) |
| 16:46.43 | hans | mheath: that's really cool, it really is (I worked on QNX which is very much like that), but it's only cool to developers |
| 16:46.47 | macnewbold | levi: yeah, I did some stuff with it, and never got to liking it |
| 16:46.48 | hans | real people just want to use it |
| 16:46.56 | mheath | hans: no |
| 16:47.02 | mheath | Say your on a GNU machine |
| 16:47.19 | hans | step one, already out of the realm of "real people" |
| 16:47.20 | mheath | and you want to mount an ISO filesystem, as a loopback |
| 16:47.23 | hans | or average people if you prefer. |
| 16:47.28 | macnewbold | that's my story... I just want something that works good - usually that means it's built well underneath, but the opposite isn't always true |
| 16:47.35 | macnewbold | or the converse or inverse or whatever it is |
| 16:47.47 | mheath | But the machine doesn't have support for ISO9660 FS right out of the box |
| 16:48.03 | mheath | You, as an unpriveleged user, could download and compile the ISO9660 FS translator |
| 16:48.07 | macnewbold | but it _does_ |
| 16:48.27 | mheath | macnewbold: I know it does, this is just an example |
| 16:48.32 | macnewbold | ah, okay :) |
| 16:48.38 | mheath | And download and compile the loopback translator |
| 16:48.54 | macnewbold | see, and to me, if I've got to do extra work like that, I'm not to keen on it |
| 16:49.11 | macnewbold | knowing I _can_ is reassuring, but I better not _have_to unless I'm doing something really weird |
| 16:49.20 | macnewbold | otherwise, it should just work |
| 16:49.27 | macnewbold | ~duel |
| 16:49.28 | ibot | ACTION slaps Newsome across the face with a heavy pair of gloves and quicky hands them to macnewbold |
| 16:49.33 | macnewbold | hm |
| 16:49.33 | hans | the only people that would find that exciting are people with technical knowledge but not root. aka college students or people working in big companies |
| 16:49.36 | macnewbold | ~duel mheath |
| 16:49.48 | macnewbold | ~duel |
| 16:49.49 | ibot | ACTION considers sharing all the /msg traffic between macnewbold and WoodsDog with #utah |
| 16:49.59 | mheath | O.o |
| 16:50.03 | macnewbold | ~duel |
| 16:50.05 | ibot | ACTION slaps levi across the face with a heavy pair of gloves and quicky hands them to macnewbold |
| 16:50.12 | hans | or high school students I guess. I was very into userspace/home dir stuff when I was in college |
| 16:50.28 | macnewbold | yeah, it's handy when you're locked down |
| 16:50.37 | macnewbold | but who's going to lock you down on hurd? |
| 16:50.47 | hans | but the rest of the world, who can get root to do what's needed, are more interested in total ease and initial setup woes |
| 16:50.52 | macnewbold | yep |
| 16:50.58 | levi | macnewbold: I'm still curious about what in particular made you dislike them and consider them slow to develop in, and what you'd rather use for whatever it was you were doing with them. |
| 16:51.22 | mheath | hans: well, I understand that |
| 16:51.23 | *** join/#utah greygnome (~greygnome@69.2.248.18) |
| 16:51.24 | hans | but microkernels are very very cool. just not to normal people |
| 16:51.42 | macnewbold | With so many parens that all look the same, it's hard to read the code sometimes, |
| 16:51.47 | macnewbold | but that's minor |
| 16:51.54 | Jayce^ | 'fingernail clippings' |
| 16:51.59 | mheath | The argument is that Hurd can (read: has the potential to) do everything Linux can and more |
| 16:52.04 | hans | and even though I like them a lot, until it's to the point that it can do everything linux does without grief, I'm not interested in playing (unless I decide to do OS research at school, for example) |
| 16:52.05 | macnewbold | the biggest thing for me was that about the only good data structure you get for free is a list |
| 16:52.15 | macnewbold | maybe associative arrays |
| 16:52.15 | mheath | Not that it provides features that your average user is likely to find amazingly awesome |
| 16:52.37 | mheath | hans: it can do almost everything Linux can right now |
| 16:52.37 | hans | macnewbold: but lists can do everything!!! |
| 16:52.39 | macnewbold | It just takes a lot longer to do the same thing in lisp than it does in say C even |
| 16:52.40 | mheath | For example |
| 16:52.44 | mheath | You could install GNOME |
| 16:52.46 | mheath | run firefox |
| 16:52.47 | levi | macnewbold: In Common Lisp, lists, arrays, hashes, structures, and objects are all fully-supported datatypes. |
| 16:52.50 | mheath | run all the gnome utilities |
| 16:52.52 | hans | mheath: when that almost goes away, I will try it, excitedly |
| 16:52.54 | mheath | Run thunderbird |
| 16:53.01 | macnewbold | I can see lisp is all cool when you're doing something that's inherently list-oriented |
| 16:53.06 | mheath | You can run KDE.... |
| 16:53.20 | mheath | You can run Enlightenment |
| 16:53.21 | hans | what about audio? |
| 16:53.21 | macnewbold | but using lisp for other stuff just seems as painful to me as trying to use java for something non-OO |
| 16:53.27 | macnewbold | audacity |
| 16:53.28 | hans | as in, rosegarden |
| 16:53.36 | hans | JACK |
| 16:53.39 | hans | ALSA |
| 16:53.41 | mheath | hans: audio is slightly lacking at the moment |
| 16:53.53 | mheath | Audio drivers and such have been slow to be developed, because the focus is on getting Hurd on l4 |
| 16:53.55 | levi | macnewbold: What editor were you using with your lisp programming? It's very amenable to smart-editor support, which makes coding in it MUCH easier. |
| 16:54.03 | hans | the microkernel I assume would be easier to get to true realtime in, right? that has promise for audio |
| 16:54.07 | macnewbold | yeah, I use emacs |
| 16:54.12 | macnewbold | it works good |
| 16:54.16 | macnewbold | with lisp, as you might guess |
| 16:54.18 | mheath | Hardware driver development on L4 will be MUCH better than it is on mach |
| 16:54.36 | mheath | So some of the driver development has been slow while the focus has been on getting the port to L4 complete |
| 16:54.38 | macnewbold | I just didn't like lisp much |
| 16:54.51 | macnewbold | I also did some stuff in scheme for one or two of my classes |
| 16:54.55 | macnewbold | and it wasn't too fun |
| 16:55.02 | macnewbold | though it did work for what they wanted to do with it |
| 16:55.11 | levi | macnewbold: It sounds like you didn't learn Common Lisp very thoroughly, though. |
| 16:55.11 | mheath | (The backends for most hardware on Mach really has to be in Mach itself, which is A Bad Thing.....on l4, it too could be userland) |
| 16:55.28 | macnewbold | (studying programming languages - so they'd use scheme to implement other language features, etc.) |
| 16:55.41 | macnewbold | no, I didn't want to learn it very well |
| 16:55.44 | macnewbold | it was torture |
| 16:55.56 | macnewbold | it's not like there was a class or anything |
| 16:56.00 | levi | macnewbold: Well, with an attitude like that, it's no surprise you didn't like it. :) |
| 16:56.00 | macnewbold | it was just kind of thrown at us |
| 16:56.03 | macnewbold | hehe |
| 16:56.10 | macnewbold | no, the attitude developed _after_ I tried it |
| 16:56.14 | mheath | LISP is one of those languages.....people talk about it, talk about all the features, how nice it is, and you go "WOW" |
| 16:56.20 | mheath | Then when you actually sit down to learn it.... |
| 16:56.20 | macnewbold | I don't like java either |
| 16:56.22 | mheath | It's torture. |
| 16:56.43 | macnewbold | it's got a lot of esoteric features |
| 16:56.48 | macnewbold | that can do lots of wild and crazy things |
| 16:56.52 | mheath | I've started to like Java |
| 16:56.58 | macnewbold | but there only rarely useful in practice, IMHO |
| 16:57.06 | mheath | my Programming teacher in highschool will tell you, when I first started the class I didn nothing but complain about it |
| 16:57.14 | levi | Well, if you really can't dig the parentheses, you can try Dylan, which is like Common Lisp without the s-expressions. |
| 16:57.14 | mheath | I thought it was a horrible language |
| 16:57.16 | macnewbold | I mean, how often is a closure the right way to implement something? |
| 16:57.19 | mheath | But I've grown to like it.. |
| 16:57.41 | hans | macnewbold: more often than you'd think |
| 16:57.44 | levi | macnewbold: Quite often, actually. Tried Ruby? |
| 16:57.49 | hans | that much I know, from using Ruby |
| 16:57.52 | levi | Or Smalltalk? |
| 16:59.32 | levi | It's interesting to note that lexical closures didn't exist in Lisp until Scheme came along. |
| 16:59.47 | levi | (interesting to me, at least) |
| 17:01.26 | macnewbold | haven't used ruby or python yet |
| 17:01.32 | mheath | Me neither. |
| 17:01.39 | mheath | I'm all C and Java |
| 17:01.43 | mheath | and some PHP |
| 17:01.49 | mheath | (weird combination, I know.....) |
| 17:01.54 | hans | well no wonder you like java. :) |
| 17:01.58 | levi | mheath: Not weird at all. |
| 17:02.16 | macnewbold | I'm all about C, perl, and PHP, not in that order |
| 17:02.17 | hans | for all but what C is good at and what PHP is good at, I'd prefer Java too. |
| 17:02.23 | *** join/#utah spr (~spr@ramona.cs.byu.edu) |
| 17:02.45 | macnewbold | C++ is okay, cause you can just do C in it, but java gets a thumbs-down |
| 17:02.50 | mheath | I used to do a lot of Visual Basic (for a class...don't hate me too much) |
| 17:02.57 | mheath | I think that scarred me for life D: |
| 17:03.00 | mheath | er |
| 17:03.00 | mheath | :D |
| 17:03.06 | dataw0lf|w | C and Python |
| 17:03.14 | levi | C and C++ both get thumbs-down from me, though C is sometimes a necessary evil. |
| 17:03.16 | dataw0lf|w | what else do you need, besides a nice shell? |
| 17:03.25 | mheath | Visual Basic was actually the first programming language I learned |
| 17:03.26 | mheath | Sad. |
| 17:03.41 | levi | Well, a lot of us started with weaker forms of Basic. |
| 17:03.45 | macnewbold | yep |
| 17:03.53 | mheath | I learned a *bit* of QBASIC early on |
| 17:03.55 | levi | Even more mind-damaging than Visual Basic. |
| 17:03.57 | macnewbold | but at least it didn't have "Visual" in the name |
| 17:04.02 | Jayce^ | GWBasic :) |
| 17:04.07 | mheath | We have this book out of the 70's |
| 17:04.08 | macnewbold | yeah |
| 17:04.10 | levi | Applesoft BASIC. |
| 17:04.11 | dataw0lf|w | eh, I learned C first, if you notice, I have a twitch above my left eye. |
| 17:04.11 | mheath | a collection of BASIC games |
| 17:04.17 | macnewbold | all of the above |
| 17:04.25 | macnewbold | oh, and Logo / LogoWriter |
| 17:04.26 | mheath | I worked on porting some of them from some ancient dialect of BASIC to QBASIC when I was younger |
| 17:04.44 | macnewbold | hm, from one dead language to another |
| 17:04.48 | Jayce^ | Pen Up; |
| 17:04.55 | dataw0lf|w | I don't think they were alive in the first place. |
| 17:05.03 | *** join/#utah tene (~tene@tene.slacker.supporter.poipu) |
| 17:05.03 | macnewbold | yeah, but Jayce^, pen up is cheating |
| 17:05.06 | macnewbold | you have to keep the pen down |
| 17:05.14 | macnewbold | ala etch-a-sketch |
| 17:05.17 | levi | BASIC was terribly alive for a long time. It's still alive in some places. |
| 17:05.24 | Newsome | http://www.cyberguys.com/templates/searchdetail.asp?T1=190+0377&dept=&search=&child= |
| 17:05.25 | macnewbold | and for that it should die |
| 17:05.32 | macnewbold | ~duel |
| 17:05.33 | ibot | ACTION considers sharing all the /msg traffic between macnewbold and tyce with #utah |
| 17:05.36 | macnewbold | ~cookie |
| 17:05.40 | macnewbold | ~brownie |
| 17:05.41 | Jayce^ | Bill keeps basic alive beyond it's purpose just because it's his pet |
| 17:05.46 | macnewbold | ~cake |
| 17:05.47 | ibot | it has been said that cake is all gone :( |
| 17:07.13 | levi | Personally, I wish Ada or Modula or some other Pascal-derivative had taken a stronger hold. |
| 17:07.32 | Jayce^ | Delphi :) |
| 17:08.06 | vontrapp | Gorilla and Nibbles |
| 17:08.18 | vontrapp | :) |
| 17:08.19 | *** join/#utah toxs (~toxs@166.70.209.69) |
| 17:08.28 | hans | gw-basic is where I started |
| 17:08.36 | levi | Hrm. Well, Delphi is something, but it's falling out of favor, and I don't know it well enough to comment. |
| 17:08.42 | hans | or maybe it was a version of basic on the atari 800 |
| 17:08.57 | tene | ~spoon |
| 17:08.58 | ibot | There is no spoon. Ok, perhaps you meant: Parallel execution of command batches for SMP machines. URL: http://www.farcaster.net/xris/spoon/ |
| 17:09.20 | levi | I think Wirth's propensity for CAPS drove people away from his languages. ;) |
| 17:10.02 | levi | "Oooh, look at ths 'C' language! It's got the low-level features Pascal lacks, and I don't have to use caps-lock anymore!" |
| 17:10.05 | mheath | The *very* first programming language I toyed with at all was ZBASIC |
| 17:10.26 | mheath | That was when I was like...5, though, and curiously looking through the code of games I used to play |
| 17:10.47 | mheath | We had a DnD game for our Zenith Z-100 that was coded in ZBASIC |
| 17:11.17 | Jayce^ | levi, correct, it's dying.. |
| 17:13.11 | levi | BTW, people who like the Lisp concepts but not the language itself should look at Dylan. It's even got lisp-like macros. |
| 17:14.49 | levi | http://www.functionalobjects.com/resources/index.phtml |
| 17:15.24 | macnewbold | k, well I'm headed back to #uphpu - everyone come to the meeting tonight, if you're interested |
| 17:15.27 | dataw0lf|w | that's pretty slick. thanks levi. |
| 17:15.44 | *** part/#utah macnewbold (~mac@69.2.248.251) |
| 17:16.59 | Jayce^ | levi, you ever wind up getting the new new order album? |
| 17:17.20 | levi | Dylan also has a concept called 'sealing', which lets you get the benefits of compile-time object dispatch when you need it, while retaining runtime dynamic dispatch when you don't. |
| 17:17.32 | levi | Jayce^: I haven't bought it yet, but I do have a copy of it. |
| 17:17.40 | Jayce^ | what'd you think? |
| 17:17.46 | levi | I like it. |
| 17:18.00 | Jayce^ | I think I finally placed it, most like 'brotherhood' imo.. |
| 17:18.16 | levi | Yeah, that was my thought. Kind of a fusion of Brotherhood and Get Ready. |
| 17:18.45 | Jayce^ | yeah, bit more modern techno, classic new order style though... get ready was a bit too much of a jump for a lot of folks |
| 17:19.58 | levi | Dylan also has a very CL-like condition system, which doesn't automatically unwind the stack, so you can do restarts as well as termination handling. |
| 17:27.04 | levi | Dylan has first-class continuations as well, though they are only required to be of dynamic extent in Dylan as opposed to indefinite extent in Scheme. |
| 17:29.18 | levi | This gives a good language overview, especially for someone familiar with Scheme: http://www.cs.indiana.edu/~jsobel/forschemers.html |
| 17:36.45 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (~bastage@c-24-2-80-89.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 17:47.50 | vontrapp | sometimes my cpu thinks it top freq is 1500 and other times it goes all the way to 1800 |
| 17:47.53 | vontrapp | i don't get it |
| 17:48.27 | mrpull | vontrapp: do you have thermal problems? |
| 17:48.44 | mrpull | what CPU is it? |
| 17:48.55 | jsmith | vontrapp: Is your CPU throttling back when it's not under load? |
| 17:49.18 | jsmith | vontrapp: My Athlon64 runs at a slower speed when it's not being used very much |
| 17:51.21 | vontrapp | well, maybe it is the on demand governor |
| 17:51.56 | vontrapp | i have it set up to go to the powersave governor when the plug is out, and performance when it's in |
| 17:52.34 | vontrapp | and once when it was only at 1500 i checked the scaling_max_freq and it said 1500 |
| 17:52.54 | vontrapp | but it so happens when i look now and it was 1800 that it is under load |
| 17:53.32 | vontrapp | but still, the max_frequency shouldn't be sub-max i would think |
| 17:55.07 | vontrapp | mrpull: AMD Athlon 64 |
| 17:56.12 | mrpull | i don't have any experience with the Athlon64's but the power management theory seems reasonable. |
| 17:56.39 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (~timr@proxysb01.ext.ti.com) |
| 17:56.40 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 17:58.47 | vontrapp | but, considering the times i've noticed it was at 1500 was because i was putting it under load and it seemed to not be as fast as before |
| 17:58.50 | vontrapp | ... |
| 18:16.17 | *** join/#utah ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 18:16.17 | *** topic/#utah is UPHPU Tonight, 7pm, LinuxNetworx, "Basic Linux network security, troubleshooting & tips" by bigdog_ut and dataw0lf | The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, uphpu.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com. See planetutah.adelantellc.com for aggregate feeds. | http://action.eff |
| 18:16.17 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 18:16.43 | Hhhhh | hello |
| 18:18.02 | jsmith | Hello Hhhhh |
| 18:22.59 | *** join/#utah JoshH (~josh@josh.dsl.aros.net) |
| 18:32.03 | *** join/#utah xilch|w (~xilch@66.239.17.226.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 18:50.43 | vontrapp | jsmith: no |
| 18:51.47 | Hhhhh | ? |
| 18:52.05 | vontrapp | Hhhhh: he's not allowed to talk to you |
| 18:52.20 | Hhhhh | why? |
| 18:52.38 | vontrapp | i'm joking, i was answering a question he asked while i was out to lunch |
| 18:52.47 | Hhhhh | lol, ok |
| 18:53.35 | vontrapp | that was just too good of an opportunity to pass up ;) |
| 19:15.34 | hans | http://fy.chalmers.se/~appro/nt/TXMouse/ |
| 19:16.47 | mrpull | hans: unix guys have wimpier fingers? |
| 19:17.36 | mrpull | hans: actually this looks good... i have a couple apps that already do X style copy/paste in windows and it makes me nuts switching back and forth |
| 19:21.02 | mrpull | hans: you are my hero. This TXMouse rocks. |
| 19:21.34 | mrpull | hrmm... maybe not. now I cant middle-click to close firefox tabs :) |
| 19:38.47 | *** join/#utah sargun (nobody@dsl092-015-136.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 19:38.56 | sargun | xbmodder is called sargun here |
| 19:55.16 | Newsome | ah, shit. Another nick to ignore? |
| 19:57.19 | *** part/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@obelix.cs.byu.edu) |
| 19:59.18 | Hhhhh | lol |
| 20:01.51 | goozbach | I found pocky |
| 20:05.18 | Hhhhh | pocky? |
| 20:07.23 | tene | awesome |
| 20:08.32 | Hhhhh | what's pocky? |
| 20:10.05 | goozbach | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pocky |
| 20:11.01 | hans | Jayce^: harleypig green beard link? |
| 20:15.07 | goozbach | I googled for green beard and found a homosexual page |
| 20:15.17 | goozbach | ~google green beard |
| 20:15.35 | dataw0lf|w | hey, it was the only domain name available at the time. |
| 20:20.21 | Jayce^ | http://www.lug-nut.com/gallery/jayce/Computers/screen5.png |
| 20:20.37 | Jayce^ | I think he has it at media.harleypig.com |
| 20:22.17 | *** join/#utah jebar (~jebarlow@2.wencor.com) |
| 20:23.03 | hans | ~lart jebar |
| 20:23.29 | hans | ~php |
| 20:23.30 | ibot | HTML-embedded scripting language. URL: http://www.php.net/, or gimpy like python |
| 20:23.50 | tene | ibot: php is also an incredible pain. |
| 20:23.51 | ibot | okay, tene |
| 20:23.55 | tene | ~php |
| 20:23.56 | ibot | HTML-embedded scripting language. URL: http://www.php.net/, or gimpy like python, or an incredible pain. |
| 20:25.09 | Jayce^ | tene++ |
| 20:27.13 | tene | perl++ |
| 20:27.20 | tene | Jayce^: looked at Catalyst? |
| 20:29.46 | TimRiker | too much paperwork. =/ |
| 20:35.15 | levi | TimRiker: Where in South Jordan? |
| 20:36.26 | Jayce^ | tene, oh yeah |
| 20:36.35 | Jayce^ | looking at using it on a new project |
| 20:36.54 | levi | Catalyst is the Rails-like thing for perl? |
| 20:36.59 | Jayce^ | correct |
| 20:37.20 | Jayce^ | based off the older maypole system, fixed a lot of the problems it had (very CRUD specific) |
| 20:37.39 | Jayce^ | still has some nuances, that's for sure, but I feel the same about the others in the category |
| 20:38.38 | hans | the lost sheep returns |
| 20:38.56 | Jayce^ | so TimRiker, when's the move? |
| 20:42.48 | TimRiker | Jayce^: should close on the new house mid july. perhaps moving in on the 18th. |
| 20:43.00 | *** join/#utah retina_ (~scott@drjones.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 20:43.21 | TimRiker | levi: http://rikers.org/gallery/newhome |
| 20:43.58 | retina_ | what's a popular disk utility, for linux, comparable or better than fdisk? |
| 20:44.14 | Jayce^ | cfdisk |
| 20:45.16 | retina_ | Jayce^ thanks.....any others? I have two hard drives...I need something to describe the two disc's vital stats |
| 20:46.08 | Jayce^ | and you don't want to use fdisk |
| 20:46.32 | Jayce^ | qtparted if you want a gui |
| 20:47.23 | levi | TimRiker: That's just west of where I live, approx. 90th S and 7th W. |
| 20:48.07 | levi | Looks like a nice place. :) |
| 20:54.55 | TimRiker | Jayce^: =) on BZFlag? or new-PAF? or old HP hardware? or all of the above? ;-) |
| 20:55.24 | TimRiker | levi: thanx. what do you have for net access? |
| 20:56.24 | TimRiker | levi: the current resident has wireless coming in to a router. I want a fixed IP. xmission high speed dsl preferred. /me remembers he needs to call qwest and have the line checked and looks for the current resident's phone number... |
| 20:57.18 | tensai | TimRiker: you can accurately check the line via qwest's website now. no need to call. still need the number though. |
| 20:58.22 | spr | how does one get a redhat/fedora machine to accept ^? (backspace) properly? |
| 20:59.07 | tensai | stty erase ^? |
| 20:59.39 | TimRiker | tensai: got the current number. know a place to check for 4 or 7M speeds? |
| 20:59.44 | hans | flagfest at TimRiker's new house when he gets moved in |
| 20:59.47 | spr | tensai, thanks |
| 21:00.04 | hans | TimRiker: #xmlounge? |
| 21:00.15 | *** join/#utah sargun (nobody@dsl092-015-136.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 21:00.20 | sargun | anyone a windows user here? |
| 21:00.32 | sargun | Please tell me if you know alot about windows. i need help. |
| 21:00.38 | tensai | TimRiker: qwest's site I think only tells you yes or no. I asked qwest when I recently moved if my line supported 7, but it didn't. apparently that means he knew. |
| 21:00.59 | tene | sargun: I know *of* windows, does that count? |
| 21:01.03 | tensai | ignore sargun!*@* |
| 21:01.05 | tensai | oops... |
| 21:03.54 | TimRiker | argh.... 1.5M only. |
| 21:05.08 | tensai | I was surprised that going up to 3 or 5 your upload drops. not until 7M does it go back up to 1mbps. |
| 21:05.24 | mheath | sargun: see topic. "The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah." |
| 21:05.39 | mheath | sargun: Windows is not a OSS product. |
| 21:05.58 | tene | mheath: there's plenty of OSS that runs on the windows platform. |
| 21:06.07 | levi | TimRiker: I have xmission DSL, currently 1.5mbit |
| 21:06.09 | tene | Jerk. |
| 21:06.16 | mheath | sargun: while a lot of people in here are probably windows saavy, coming into here and asking a question like that right off isn't likely to make people too happy |
| 21:06.46 | mheath | (Hence the "<tensai> ignore sargun!*@*) |
| 21:07.27 | TimRiker | ibot: tell sargun about ask |
| 21:16.25 | sargun | I know. |
| 21:16.47 | sargun | I mainly use linux. I am stuck with windows currently... |
| 21:17.04 | sargun | It is quite annoying as this maching runs linux beatuifully. |
| 21:17.36 | dataw0lf|w | mheath: the guy just asked a question, gimme a break. |
| 21:17.58 | mheath | dataw0lf|w: I wasn't trying to be mean, I was trying to explain why he had someone ignoring him. |
| 21:18.06 | sargun | I will be quite : |
| 21:18.29 | tene | quite colon? |
| 21:18.49 | TimRiker | xmlounge folks say that 1.5M and higher are all 896k upload now. |
| 21:19.10 | TimRiker | tene: he likely mean quiet |
| 21:19.21 | mheath | Anyone here use Thunderbird? |
| 21:19.26 | tene | oh |
| 21:19.30 | tene | eww. |
| 21:19.35 | dataw0lf|w | mheath: jeez, enough with the questions, sheesh, c'mon, jeez. |
| 21:19.41 | TimRiker | sargun: feel free to ask questions. Just make them good questions. not like mheath just asked. |
| 21:19.50 | tensai | TimRiker: that's good news |
| 21:19.59 | mheath | TimRiker: heh. Play nice, now :) |
| 21:20.10 | TimRiker | tensai: not actually. it used to me 1M up iirc. |
| 21:20.38 | mheath | I'm just wondering why ocassionally I have messages marked in the list as containing an attachment, when they don't have any attachments |
| 21:21.03 | TimRiker | mheath: perhaps emails with both html and text bodies? |
| 21:21.11 | dataw0lf|w | that'd be it. |
| 21:21.14 | tene | Bah @ TimRiker first. |
| 21:21.17 | tensai | TimRiker: better than 256k |
| 21:21.29 | TimRiker | tensai: true, that. ;-) |
| 21:22.03 | dataw0lf|w | man, I sure wish I got Qwest at my new place. |
| 21:22.20 | dataw0lf|w | funny thing is I live right above an XMission sys admin, apparently. |
| 21:22.26 | mheath | TimRiker: ah, I think thats what is happening |
| 21:22.34 | mheath | or rather what it thinks happening |
| 21:22.58 | mheath | the e-mail is just a plain text, but the headers identify it as multipart.... |
| 21:23.10 | tensai | multipart/alternative probably |
| 21:23.24 | hans | ok, gentoo apologists, this gentoo CD isn't seeing the CDROM or something? what's up with that? SCSI system but this is an IDE cdrom (hda) |
| 21:23.27 | hans | er, hdc |
| 21:23.33 | hans | we're moving it to hda to see if that makes a difference. |
| 21:24.00 | tensai | hans: it's not using cable select, is it? always causes problems |
| 21:25.25 | TimRiker | dataw0lf|w: wiretap? ;-) |
| 21:25.25 | dataw0lf|w | TimRaker: hehe, good call. |
| 21:25.25 | dataw0lf|w | s/Raker/Riker |
| 21:25.59 | dataw0lf|w | I'm trying to say that 10 times fast. |
| 21:26.53 | hans | no cable select |
| 21:27.05 | *** join/#utah bonez41 (~aint@drjones.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 21:27.23 | tensai | hans: does it show up in dmesg? |
| 21:27.34 | tensai | have you loaded all the ide modules? |
| 21:30.14 | hans | I just get busybox and there aren't many modules to load, but it does show up in /proc |
| 21:30.20 | hans | but there's nothing in /dev |
| 21:30.28 | tensai | udev? |
| 21:31.19 | hans | maybe? it's a 2.6 kenrle (thi sis the minimal CD) |
| 21:32.12 | hans | next up, installing gentoo from ubuntu |
| 21:32.31 | bigdog_ut | lol |
| 21:32.39 | bigdog_ut | installing gentoo from ubuntu livecd |
| 21:33.42 | hans | thunder. mmm |
| 21:36.45 | *** join/#utah xbmodder_lappy (nobody@dsl092-015-136.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 21:36.47 | xbmodder_lappy | ~lart me |
| 21:36.53 | xbmodder_lappy | ouch.... |
| 21:37.07 | hans | the ironic thing is that I had to use a gentoo live CD to get debian onto my workstation |
| 21:37.16 | bigdog_ut | lol |
| 21:37.18 | bigdog_ut | nice |
| 21:37.18 | xbmodder_lappy | hhe. |
| 21:37.19 | hans | and now I have to use ubuntu to get gentoo onto this server |
| 21:37.46 | bigdog_ut | i had to use a gentoo cd to get into an old solaris box once |
| 21:37.49 | bigdog_ut | that was cool |
| 21:39.14 | hans | hmm, ubuntu dodn't see the CD after booting either |
| 21:39.40 | bigdog_ut | hans, are you passing boot params? |
| 21:39.49 | xbmodder_lappy | knoppix? |
| 21:39.52 | xbmodder_lappy | failsafe? |
| 21:40.32 | tensai | hans: this isn't some hokey cd attached to the sound card in a 386 is it? |
| 21:48.29 | hans | bad cd drive |
| 21:48.49 | hans | false alarm |
| 21:48.59 | tene | heh |
| 21:49.10 | mrpull | anybody buy sdcards lately? |
| 21:49.18 | hans | sound cards? yeah |
| 21:50.01 | Bradipo | SD memory? |
| 21:50.04 | mrpull | yeah |
| 21:50.35 | mrpull | sd memory... i'm looking at pricewatch, etc... and surprised that the circuit city next door is within a buck of newegg |
| 21:51.11 | mrpull | anybody find any good bargains on SD memory lately is more what I mean |
| 21:52.28 | mrpull | 128MB is sufficient for my needs... i'm just putting a couple 16MB maps in my GPS |
| 21:58.08 | Bradipo | Your GPS uses SD cards? |
| 21:58.14 | mrpull | yes |
| 21:58.29 | mrpull | magellan's higher end stuff uses SD for detailed maps |
| 21:58.35 | Bradipo | Cool. |
| 21:59.41 | mrpull | i just bought an explorist 600 to replace my meridian platinum |
| 22:01.49 | hans | my goodness it's raining |
| 22:01.55 | hans | intense |
| 22:02.31 | Bradipo | Intense raining, or its intense that it is raining? |
| 22:02.35 | tene | <3 rain. |
| 22:02.45 | vontrapp | it's nasty windy out there |
| 22:13.39 | *** join/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog@166.70.34.182) |
| 22:15.57 | xbmodder_lappy | i need windows x64 |
| 22:17.51 | vontrapp | i need $20 x64 |
| 22:18.57 | hans | Bradipo: intense rain and wind |
| 22:19.10 | hans | almost ripped the door off when I almost went out to look at it up close |
| 22:19.32 | vontrapp | hans: you aborted! |
| 22:19.33 | Bradipo | Intense. |
| 22:19.49 | vontrapp | shoulda gone through with it |
| 22:23.05 | xbmodder_lappy | vontrapp how? |
| 22:24.03 | tapH20guru | xbmodder: what dashboard do you prefer? I can't decide between EvoX and Avalaunch |
| 22:24.09 | vontrapp | xbmodder_lappy: take $20, give it to me, repeat x64 times |
| 22:24.11 | tapH20guru | maybe UnleashX |
| 22:39.24 | *** join/#utah mheath_ (~mheath@c-67-161-213-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 22:41.26 | mrpull | ahah... the sllug list was screwy |
| 22:41.47 | xbmodder_lappy | lol. |
| 22:42.02 | mrpull | who was it that poked fun at me about my query? |
| 22:42.38 | goozbach | pocky, pocky, pocky, mt dew! |
| 22:43.21 | mheath_ | eh? |
| 22:43.34 | mheath_ | Japanese cracker sticks and....mt dew? |
| 22:43.39 | goozbach | sugar and caffiene |
| 22:44.03 | goozbach | because lunch is the second most important meal of the day |
| 22:44.08 | mheath | I could think of plenty of more readily available sources of sugar than japanese cracker sticks |
| 22:44.23 | mheath | be back in a bit..... |
| 22:44.43 | goozbach | but they're not pocky |
| 22:48.29 | Jayce^ | especially in the brush field :) |
| 22:48.58 | goozbach | ohhh yeah |
| 22:49.35 | Jayce^ | sure you got enough paint? ;p |
| 22:49.35 | goozbach | I hope we'll be able to get out earler... I've got a date that afternoon |
| 22:50.01 | goozbach | I forgot about that |
| 22:50.13 | goozbach | I'll have to buy an extra three boxes of pocky |
| 22:50.19 | goozbach | (to take paintballing) |
| 22:51.42 | Jayce^ | yeah, we'll be starting plenty early :) |
| 22:52.27 | mheath | aw, I want to go paintballing.... |
| 22:52.40 | Jayce^ | mheath, so come P) |
| 22:52.47 | Jayce^ | of course, you have to drive down here |
| 22:53.13 | mheath | I don't really have a paintball gun, anyway |
| 22:53.20 | mheath | Well, I do, but its a pump action horrible one.. |
| 22:57.13 | goozbach | Jayce^: I wanna see if we can play some of those interesting game types |
| 22:57.46 | *** join/#utah sjansen (~sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 22:58.05 | sjansen | *sigh* |
| 22:58.21 | Jayce^ | heeeee'ss baaaaack |
| 22:59.14 | sjansen | "I'm still having problems printing." |
| 22:59.15 | goozbach | oh boy |
| 22:59.26 | goozbach | ~paint sjansen |
| 22:59.27 | ibot | ACTION rains a tape stream of paintballs on sjansen |
| 22:59.44 | sjansen | Queue questions. Turns out to be a problem with OOo trying to print A4 instead of Letter. |
| 23:00.08 | sjansen | Explain that OOo stores the page size in the document, so after changing it the file needs to be saved. |
| 23:00.12 | sjansen | Wait. |
| 23:00.23 | sjansen | "Nope. Didn't work." |
| 23:01.19 | sjansen | Get up. Look at file. Change size. See message "This size of this document has changed. Would you like to save the change?". Click yes. |
| 23:01.48 | sjansen | "Oh, I didn't understand the question. I was saying no. Should I have said yes?" |
| 23:02.05 | Jayce^ | sjansen, so was that emcnabb? :-p |
| 23:02.11 | sjansen | Try not to laugh out loud. Lose even more hope for humanity. |
| 23:03.05 | jsmith | sjansen: You can't make anything foolproof, because fools are so ingenious. |
| 23:03.08 | sjansen | Jayce^: No, it wasn't one of the instructors. |
| 23:04.45 | emcnabb | ~lart Jayce^ |
| 23:05.03 | Jayce^ | :) |
| 23:05.18 | Jayce^ | goozbach, now you gotta bring emcnabb down with you saturday |
| 23:05.44 | goozbach | emcnabb: come with |
| 23:05.58 | emcnabb | I guess I need to have a bachelor party sometime... |
| 23:06.05 | Jayce^ | mwahahaha |
| 23:06.07 | emcnabb | and the fiance is working... |
| 23:06.15 | emcnabb | from 7 to 7... |
| 23:06.41 | Jayce^ | excellent |
| 23:06.49 | Jayce^ | if you can commit, I can loan you equipment |
| 23:07.35 | goozbach | we can carpool if you'll drive to magna |
| 23:07.40 | goozbach | or west-valley |
| 23:07.49 | Jayce^ | sjansen said he's in |
| 23:08.01 | goozbach | did he now... |
| 23:08.09 | emcnabb | hum... |
| 23:08.11 | emcnabb | well... |
| 23:08.44 | Jayce^ | so you really gotta do it now :) |
| 23:08.53 | emcnabb | hum... |
| 23:08.54 | emcnabb | well.... |
| 23:09.34 | emcnabb | I'll think about it |
| 23:10.02 | Jayce^ | let me know, earlier the better (gotta get the paint and stuff) and before I loan the equipment out |
| 23:10.08 | sjansen | You know you want to join Jayce^ and goozbach to see if the pain is strong enough to glue me to a tree. |
| 23:10.54 | Jayce^ | just remember folks, if you let sjansen drive, make sure you have a spare key on your body at all times |
| 23:11.19 | emcnabb | haha |
| 23:12.50 | Jayce^ | :-p |
| 23:13.29 | TimRiker | http://www.qwest.com/disclosures/netdisclosure459/RemoteDSLAMDisclosure062005.xls <- find your dslam. and your CO: http://www.dslreports.com/coinfo |
| 23:16.30 | *** part/#utah sjansen (~sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 23:16.36 | *** join/#utah markl__ (mark@dsl093-225-013.slc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 23:19.11 | *** part/#utah greygnome (~greygnome@69.2.248.18) |
| 23:20.03 | xbmodder_lappy | hey |
| 23:20.24 | xbmodder_lappy | emcnabb, am i supposed to say hi> |
| 23:20.24 | xbmodder_lappy | ? |
| 23:20.25 | xbmodder_lappy | hi |
| 23:21.51 | emcnabb | ? |
| 23:29.15 | xbmodder_lappy | god that movie looks REALLY scary |
| 23:29.25 | xbmodder_lappy | charlie and the chocolate factory |
| 23:47.29 | mheath | Yes |
| 23:47.39 | mheath | you have to beware of all those scarry candy-oriented movies >.> |
| 23:53.57 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (~timr@TimRiker.bronze.supporter.pdpc) |
| 23:53.57 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
