| 00:00.34 | TimRiker | lars-ut: don't symlink all of lib. /lib and /bin should stay on / |
| 00:01.04 | lars-ut | thx |
| 00:01.28 | lars-ut | just /lib/modules then. |
| 00:01.44 | TimRiker | that's what I'd do. yes. |
| 00:02.01 | decriptor | symlink is just a great tool |
| 00:02.24 | decriptor | crap I typed something completely different than what I thinking |
| 00:03.19 | lars-ut | decriptor: we'll probably play Settlers of Catan again Tues night if you're interested. |
| 00:03.32 | decriptor | yeah |
| 00:03.40 | lars-ut | I'll let you know |
| 00:03.47 | decriptor | hopefully I'll be ablt to make it this time |
| 00:03.50 | decriptor | sweet |
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| 00:24.34 | *** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com. See planetutah.adelantellc.com for aggregate feeds. | May the source be with you! | This week : Wednesday NUPM meeting (CGI::Path) 6:30 | Plug meeting (Ruby on Rails) 7:30 |
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| 00:25.12 | lars-ut | ~anagram racecar |
| 00:25.29 | lars-ut | ~palindrome racecar |
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| 01:17.25 | mrpu|| | /join #ubuntu |
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| 01:48.55 | *** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com. See planetutah.adelantellc.com for aggregate feeds. | May the source be with you! | This week : Wednesday NUPM meeting (CGI::Path) 6:30 | Plug meeting (Ruby on Rails) 7:30 |
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| 03:07.52 | vontrapp | ~ord c |
| 03:07.52 | ibot | 'c' is ascii 99, vontrapp |
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| 04:12.08 | levi-laptop | Good evening. |
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| 04:37.27 | brailsmt | is there a bash command to make a character uppercase? I know about tr, but it won't work here, since I only want to uppercase the first char of each word... |
| 04:38.28 | brailsmt | i would like to avoid something like "perl 'print ucfirst $blah'" |
| 04:48.31 | mheath | brailsmt: awk or sed could do it |
| 04:48.47 | mheath | using awk or sed is usually extremely portable, too |
| 04:51.30 | brailsmt | mheath: all I see in awk is toupper which does all chars to upper... |
| 04:52.56 | brailsmt | sed would be great, if I knew how to convert from lower to upper... |
| 04:53.04 | mheath | look into sed, then. I'm sure one of them can do it |
| 04:53.09 | mheath | sed and awk go in a pair :D |
| 04:53.16 | mheath | where one fails the other suceeds |
| 04:54.01 | brailsmt | i really hate info pages... |
| 04:54.43 | mheath | well, they're better than man |
| 04:54.45 | mheath | easier to use |
| 04:55.01 | mheath | well, thats not necessarily true |
| 04:55.05 | mheath | man is probably easier to use |
| 04:55.14 | mheath | because man pages tend to contain a lot less information |
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| 04:55.43 | gthornock | I might hate info pages a bit less if I had an info reader that didn't require knowledge of emacs |
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| 04:56.20 | mheath | GNU texinfo isn't *that* hard to use O.o |
| 04:56.31 | gthornock | I find man easier to use because all you really have to know is $PAGER or a2ps :) |
| 04:57.21 | gthornock | Of course, man pages on BSD tend to be pretty well maintained, too, where many of the GNU man pages just say "see the info page" |
| 04:57.31 | mheath | well yeah |
| 04:57.37 | brailsmt | or worse... |
| 04:57.39 | mheath | because info pages are much easier to maintain |
| 04:57.52 | brailsmt | "We at the FSF detest man pages...<drivel>" |
| 04:58.08 | brailsmt | i hate those... |
| 04:58.12 | mheath | GNU documentation is stored in texinfo format |
| 04:58.29 | mheath | Meaning that with one command it can be converted to HTML, PDF, texinfo, etc. |
| 04:58.47 | mheath | Whereas conversion to man requires manual editing and condensing |
| 04:59.15 | mheath | er |
| 04:59.19 | brailsmt | navigating an info page blows |
| 04:59.19 | gthornock | Yes, but the installed copy is all too often already in info format. If I had the .texi file handy, I'd probably run it through texi2html and everything would be great :) |
| 04:59.22 | mheath | its stored in tetex format* |
| 04:59.29 | mheath | brailsmt: why do you say that? |
| 04:59.35 | mheath | I find the multi-node structure rather useful |
| 04:59.40 | mheath | As opposed to some giant flat man page |
| 04:59.45 | brailsmt | i hate the ecraps =like bindings... |
| 04:59.56 | brailsmt | err... emacs |
| 05:00.18 | mheath | theres other texinfo viewers. |
| 05:00.57 | brailsmt | google works... |
| 05:01.16 | mheath | hey, I've got a quick question |
| 05:01.52 | mheath | if you were a manager at a place of business, would you see it as bad if an employee came up and discussed with you complaints they had about the way they were being scheduled? |
| 05:02.14 | mheath | I mean, as reflecting badly on that employee. |
| 05:04.20 | brailsmt | depends if the complaint is legitimate |
| 05:04.26 | brailsmt | and not whiny |
| 05:04.40 | mheath | I'm just getting frustrated at work |
| 05:05.04 | brailsmt | and the employee's performance |
| 05:05.13 | mheath | because I keep getting told I'm an awesome employee and complimented, but my scheduling is horrible in comparison to many others |
| 05:05.32 | mheath | and I keep getting sent home ("Oh, turns out we don't need you today.") |
| 05:05.39 | tensai | I don't think it's out of line to discuss scheduling with your manager. quite the opposite. |
| 05:06.16 | mheath | I mean, I'm a teen among many others working for a big corporation |
| 05:06.25 | mheath | and everyones scheduling sucks |
| 05:07.08 | mheath | Its just frustrating seeing someone get 4+ days on their schedule while I only get 2, despite the fact I have managers constantly telling me what a great employee I was, how my name came up in a management meeting, etc. |
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| 05:08.40 | mheath | Plus I feel that people who have been working there for two seasons (I work at lagoon..seasonal employment) are getting extremely preferential treatment |
| 05:09.53 | mheath | I'll talk to them about it then, I guess. I'm probably not going to be working there very much longer, though |
| 05:09.58 | gthornock | As long as you don't come across as whiny, and you're not perceived as a frequent complainer, there shouldn't be a problem discussing scheduling with your manager. |
| 05:10.02 | tensai | mheath: that's part of being a manager. don't get confrontational. be honest and polite. |
| 05:10.32 | mheath | well, my biggest concern with doing it.... |
| 05:10.44 | mheath | As I said, I'm not sure I'll be working there much longer |
| 05:11.02 | mheath | I want to discuss the issue with them incase I stick around... |
| 05:11.35 | mheath | but I don't want it to become something negative |
| 05:11.51 | mheath | I want to be able to put them down on my applications/resume |
| 05:12.09 | mheath | I've got to head to sleep, though |
| 05:12.13 | mheath | g'night, #utah |
| 05:12.26 | mheath | I've never worked with ruby |
| 05:13.04 | gthornock | Ruby's interesting and all, but I rather *like* perl. |
| 05:13.46 | brailsmt | i hate perl, but i write perl for a living so i naturally spend more time with it, and so i can get this job done faster with perl... |
| 05:13.49 | gthornock | Heading off to sleep does sound like the right idea, though :) |
| 05:13.52 | brailsmt | and i hate that... |
| 05:14.34 | brailsmt | about the only thing I like about perl that ruby doesn't have is Data::Dumper |
| 05:15.14 | brailsmt | i should reprhase that, ruby doesn have PP::pp, but its not like Data:Dumper |
| 05:28.43 | brailsmt | Data::Dumper is invaluable for debugging your data structures and your code in general |
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| 07:33.03 | Hhhhh | hello |
| 07:33.13 | Hhhhh | anybody else that can't go to sleep? |
| 07:34.17 | luminerd | hey Hhhhh |
| 07:34.24 | Hhhhh | hey |
| 07:34.31 | Hhhhh | how's the edje programming coming? |
| 07:35.18 | luminerd | not -_- |
| 07:35.31 | luminerd | all of my free time is going towards getting my WACOM tablet to work! :( |
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| 08:21.41 | fozz | ~lart Tene |
| 08:48.05 | Hhhhh | ~lart fozz |
| 09:14.30 | Tene | ~lart fozz |
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| 11:46.23 | *** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com. See planetutah.adelantellc.com for aggregate feeds. | May the source be with you! | This week : Wednesday NUPM meeting (CGI::Path) 6:30 | Plug meeting (Ruby on Rails) 7:30 |
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| 14:14.39 | scott_ | is there a way to tar up a directory and have it sent to a remote computer (scp) at the same time? I need to make a backup of a directory on a server but there's not enough space there |
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| 14:51.09 | hans | scott_: sure |
| 14:51.54 | hans | tar cj foo/ | ssh remotehost tar xj |
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| 14:52.16 | hans | you should be able to save it still tarred up, but be careful with your redirects |
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| 15:10.33 | scott_ | that command won't save it tared up right? it just tars it and sends it and then untars it? |
| 15:11.26 | tensai | scott_: correct |
| 15:12.05 | scott_ | will it keep all the permissions the same, so all I have to do is run that command on the backup server to restore the original? |
| 15:12.29 | scott_ | tensai, is russell still living where he has for the past year? |
| 15:12.43 | tensai | if you untar as root it will restore permissions |
| 15:13.09 | scott_ | I'm not root on either server |
| 15:13.12 | tensai | scott_: I haven't heard otherwise, but I can't say I know for sure |
| 15:13.52 | tensai | only root can change ownership and permission on files like that |
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| 15:15.51 | scott_ | so when I copy the files to the backup server, it will change owner to be the user who owns the account I'm copying it to, but rwx stuff will stay the same, and then when i copy it back will it change the owner to the account it's being copied to, making it back to the original? |
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| 15:19.36 | tensai | yes, whoever untars the file will be the owner |
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| 15:43.33 | hans | and perms should stay the same |
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| 15:46.12 | *** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com. See planetutah.adelantellc.com for aggregate feeds. | May the source be with you! | This week : Wednesday NUPM meeting (CGI::Path) 6:30 | Plug meeting (Ruby on Rails) 7:30 |
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| 16:14.11 | mrpull | has anyone tried goutlook? http://goutlook.sourceforge.net/ |
| 16:15.45 | spr | ~5.6 ounces in grams |
| 16:16.16 | spr | ~convert 5.6 ounces to grams |
| 16:27.07 | jsmith | mrpull: Interesting, but I don't use Outlook |
| 16:28.24 | mrpull | it doesn't seem to be working too hot on my machine anyway |
| 16:33.53 | jsmith | mrpull: Figures -- open source and Outlook just seems like a marriage doomed to failure |
| 16:34.23 | mrpull | we can always dream |
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| 16:36.25 | decriptor | does anyone know of a program or like one that is better than webmin |
| 16:36.38 | decriptor | or some form of web based administration |
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| 16:37.59 | levi-laptop | Good morning. |
| 16:38.06 | jsmith | Morning levi... |
| 16:38.23 | goozbach | I tried walking into the other room to slap sjansen |
| 16:38.28 | goozbach | and he isn't here |
| 16:38.39 | mrpull | decriptor: cpanel looks slick (but it may be intended for an entirely different purpose than you are looking for) |
| 16:40.25 | decriptor | to a degree cpanel is nice but costs |
| 16:40.40 | mrpull | yes. very expensive, but polished |
| 16:40.59 | decriptor | yup I use it on one of my sites thats hosted for me |
| 16:41.13 | mrpull | around here, you'll hear it is best to learn to modify the configs by hand... any reason you are avoiding that? |
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| 16:42.37 | levi-laptop | Perhaps because it's a pain. :) |
| 16:42.54 | decriptor | nope I love that ability to configure stuff by hand |
| 16:43.14 | decriptor | its more for the linux impaired that don't want to change |
| 16:43.14 | mrpull | that is the weakness of webbased admin tools (IMO) |
| 16:43.54 | levi-laptop | If you want to host websites, you cut out a lot of potential customers if you require hand-configuring. |
| 16:45.29 | Tene | decriptor: a custom administration utility designed for the particular needs of your customers |
| 16:46.10 | mrpull | .... the weakness is once you use a webbased tool, you are stuck using it... most don't like you to update the config files by hand anymore |
| 16:46.11 | goozbach | ~dict sasl |
| 16:47.03 | decriptor | this would be more for my boss than anything else |
| 16:47.17 | decriptor | so it doesn't really have to be custom |
| 16:47.57 | mrpull | tell him you have a new email based config program... |
| 16:47.58 | Tene | what things in particular will he be configuring? |
| 16:48.24 | mrpull | he sends the admins an email, and they make the changes and respond when they are done ;) |
| 16:48.26 | decriptor | postfix dns |
| 16:48.28 | decriptor | http |
| 16:48.42 | decriptor | I'm the only admin :( |
| 16:48.51 | mrpull | (job security) |
| 16:49.04 | resplin | Now that Sarge is out, how long until testing gets flooded with new packages? |
| 16:49.16 | Tene | you might look into configuration utilities specific to those packages instead of a general suite |
| 16:49.40 | mrpull | and how many will just be repackaged ubuntu debs? |
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| 16:51.20 | vontrapp | most of the time, it's sarge with the newer packages |
| 16:52.27 | mrpull | really? it seemed to me that sarge fell behind when they froze a bit back (/me doesn't use debian much since trying warty) |
| 16:54.14 | tensai | X is a great example of that |
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| 16:54.36 | vontrapp | maybe it's just the fact that it complains everytime it wants to use a sarge package so i notice the newer sarge packages more |
| 16:54.38 | mrpull | X.org was the package that came to my mind as well... |
| 16:54.41 | vontrapp | but there's quite a lot of them |
| 16:54.45 | mrpull | then again, it was the only package |
| 16:55.04 | vontrapp | well, aside from some core packages.... |
| 16:56.42 | resplin | But I haven't noticed much of a change since testing was unfrozen. Have things just not dropped in from unstable? I know it can take up to 10 days. |
| 16:56.54 | vontrapp | for example, just now i'm doing an upgrade, 54 packages, and i'd say like 40 of them are from sarge |
| 16:57.19 | mrpull | the last I heard, sarge had a bug that kept it from updating security packages |
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| 16:57.36 | Hhhhh | hello |
| 16:57.50 | vontrapp | i had a problem, seemed like a server problem with the scurity server |
| 16:57.56 | vontrapp | i just commented out that source for now |
| 16:58.09 | mrpull | http://www.smh.com.au/news/Breaking/Sarge-bug-hits-security-updates/2005/06/08/1118123888864.html?oneclick=true |
| 16:58.13 | bucky | mrpull, http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2005/06/msg00003.html |
| 16:58.17 | vontrapp | i don't think it's a "bug" per say |
| 16:59.03 | bucky | they released the install cd with testing in the security line in the sources.list instead of sarge |
| 16:59.08 | vontrapp | ah, that's a typo, not a bug |
| 16:59.18 | mrpull | vontrapp: if microsoft shipped windows with windows update broken out of the box... we'd all scream BUG! |
| 16:59.29 | bucky | that's a feature |
| 16:59.43 | vontrapp | i don't know that i'd do that |
| 16:59.50 | vontrapp | bucky: precisely :) |
| 17:00.41 | vontrapp | it is a very unfortunate blunder, though |
| 17:01.31 | mrpull | how long did it take to ship sarge? i cant believe that one slipped through. |
| 17:02.15 | decriptor | it's official apple and intel to merge |
| 17:02.35 | mrpull | official? |
| 17:02.40 | decriptor | supposedly |
| 17:02.56 | decriptor | http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/wwdc05/ I was told that 3/4 the way through |
| 17:03.00 | mrpull | allegedly official... sorta |
| 17:03.10 | vontrapp | onfortunately, it means synergy is gone for the moment :( |
| 17:03.17 | decriptor | isn't business politics great |
| 17:04.09 | Hhhhh | my condolences to all Debian users |
| 17:04.14 | levi-laptop | By 'merge' do you mean one company buying the other, or Apple using Intel's chips? |
| 17:04.35 | Hhhhh | Apple and Intel merging? I thought Apple was going to be a customer of Intel |
| 17:05.14 | levi-laptop | That's my understanding. |
| 17:05.31 | levi-laptop | I sincerely doubt any sort of business merger. |
| 17:05.48 | mrpull | cringley may be responsible for starting that rumor |
| 17:05.55 | bucky | mrpull, debian comes with 15490 packages on 11 different architectures and is developed on a strictly volunteer basis... and woody had six updates in those three years |
| 17:06.04 | bucky | i don't think that's too bad |
| 17:06.05 | levi-laptop | Bah, stupid Cringley. |
| 17:06.20 | mrpull | bucky: I love debian.... no need to defend it :) |
| 17:06.50 | mrpull | http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20050609.html |
| 17:07.09 | mrpull | <cringley>And this time, what's behind the announcement is so baffling and staggering that it isn't surprising that nobody has yet figured it out until now. |
| 17:07.09 | mrpull | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:07.09 | mrpull | Apple and Intel are merging.</cringley> |
| 17:07.39 | bucky | Hhhhh, my condolences to all windows lusers |
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| 17:12.25 | *** part/#utah Falling (gang@CPE00a0cc7896fe-CM0012250080d4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 17:13.03 | Hhhhh | lol |
| 17:16.33 | levi-laptop | Anyone who thinks Jobs would sell Apple willingly is off his rocker. |
| 17:17.25 | decriptor | I was wondering about it |
| 17:17.40 | Hhhhh | nah, Jobs loves his little empire too much |
| 17:17.53 | decriptor | I surprised no one from intel or apple have made any announcements about it |
| 17:17.58 | Hhhhh | after all, he wroked and toiled to build it from scratch |
| 17:22.00 | Hhhhh | worked** |
| 17:23.48 | bucky | he worked to hard to plagiarize it from Xerox before Bill Gates could |
| 17:24.06 | Hhhhh | yea |
| 17:24.45 | Hhhhh | Xerox executives from the time were so happy with their little printers and copy machines that they didn't realize that 20 years later they could own the whole world |
| 17:24.55 | Hhhhh | in a more substantial way that M$ does today |
| 17:25.36 | Hhhhh | and what should have they done? just listen to their geeks |
| 17:25.51 | bucky | all they had to do was market a point and click interface and bring computing to the masses |
| 17:26.23 | Hhhhh | and they missed it... |
| 17:27.18 | Hhhhh | that has always been a big problem, business people too busy having meetings for the sake of having meetings instead of really looking for opportunities |
| 17:28.08 | Hhhhh | but again, that simply gives me reasons to laugh at business majors, and to start to understand how a major in information systems can actually have some value |
| 17:28.23 | Hhhhh | my best bosses were those who graduated in information systems |
| 17:29.10 | Hhhhh | they're bilingual, the can talk "business and cigars" kind of talk, and they understand the basics of geek talk as well |
| 17:29.12 | levi-laptop | Apple didn't plagiarize Xerox technology, they essentially bought it. |
| 17:29.38 | bucky | oh sorry.. then gates plagiarized it |
| 17:30.02 | Hhhhh | hmph, I think Jobs also plagiarized it too |
| 17:30.26 | Hhhhh | I think Jobs is just a less lucky Gates |
| 17:30.36 | Hhhhh | bucky: have you seen Antitrust? |
| 17:30.41 | bucky | no |
| 17:30.46 | Hhhhh | that's an interesting movie |
| 17:30.59 | Hhhhh | i'm sure the Linux folk would like it |
| 17:31.05 | JoshH | ive seen it |
| 17:31.06 | bucky | Jobs is just more of a megalomaniac than Gates |
| 17:31.09 | JoshH | its ok |
| 17:31.43 | tensai | I liked Antitrust in a B movie way |
| 17:31.52 | bucky | but pancreatic cancer knocked him down a couple of notches |
| 17:31.58 | JoshH | ya same |
| 17:32.15 | JoshH | it was too unrealistic though, no company is going to have hitmen go around the country killing programmers and stealing their work |
| 17:34.21 | Hhhhh | M$!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 17:35.19 | *** join/#utah dataw0lf|w (~dataw0lf@66.219.227.114) |
| 17:35.31 | vontrapp | the brazillian government suspended patents on antiretroviral drugs |
| 17:35.36 | vontrapp | http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=25633 |
| 17:35.36 | Hhhhh | good |
| 17:36.20 | vontrapp | finally, a noteworthy example of the idea that patents are not god given rights and can be REVOKED |
| 17:44.11 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@obelix.cs.byu.edu) |
| 17:46.34 | levi-laptop | Heh, Jobs is in the Guinness World Records as "Lowest Paid Chief Executive Officer". His salary from Apple is $1/yr. Though he certainly gets more than that in non-salary compensation. |
| 17:47.02 | Hhhhh | lol |
| 17:47.22 | Hhhhh | Totally Newsome Computers! |
| 17:57.47 | *** join/#utah usynic (~synic@c-67-172-247-186.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 18:15.49 | goozbach | I think I'll pay myself $.50 |
| 18:15.54 | goozbach | so I can be in the record books |
| 18:16.08 | mrpull | $.49 |
| 18:18.57 | vontrapp | $0.46! |
| 18:24.34 | neybar | has anyone used the sveasoft or openwrt firmware for the wrt54g? |
| 18:25.00 | tensai | neybar: I have sveasoft samadhi on mine |
| 18:25.39 | neybar | I'm trying to decide between the two. I hear that the interface is a little nicer with sveasoft |
| 18:26.33 | tensai | sveasoft interface is the same as default, with extra features. I don't know about openwrt. |
| 18:27.45 | neybar | can you manipulate iptables directly with sveasoft? |
| 18:28.55 | tensai | you can ssh and do just about anything, but I'm not sure if it'll save them |
| 18:29.17 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@rrcs-67-53-103-87.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 18:34.16 | bucky | north bound I-15 in Lehi is blocked for life flight |
| 18:38.30 | Hhhhh | what happened in I-15? |
| 18:38.45 | *** join/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog@166.70.34.182) |
| 18:39.06 | spr | ~lart Class::DBI::Loader |
| 18:54.56 | *** join/#utah eikelmt (~eikelmt@ont-cust-66.18.148.144.mpowercom.net) |
| 18:58.26 | vontrapp | as of yesterday |
| 18:58.38 | vontrapp | does it respond to pings by default? |
| 18:58.40 | eikelmt | hi utah , how is it today |
| 18:59.42 | tensai | vontrapp: i think so |
| 18:59.51 | tensai | ~hug eikelmt |
| 18:59.52 | ibot | ACTION hugs eikelmt |
| 19:00.09 | vontrapp | cause it's not responding |
| 19:00.24 | tensai | vontrapp: check your arp cache |
| 19:00.29 | vontrapp | not at home |
| 19:01.02 | vontrapp | what do i check for? |
| 19:01.31 | tensai | an entry for that ip address. if it resolved the mac, that means the box is up but ignoring you. |
| 19:01.41 | vontrapp | ic |
| 19:01.51 | eikelmt | how is the job marked in utah |
| 19:03.07 | tensai | most people here are employed, I believe. not living in Utah, I can't comment directly. |
| 19:03.27 | vontrapp | nope, i don't see it, grrr |
| 19:03.57 | eikelmt | ok,,, I am living in los angeles but it is not a good place to raise kids or live,, to dirty |
| 19:04.27 | Jayce^ | depends on your skillset |
| 19:04.31 | Hhhhh | eikelmt: the job market isn't very good in Utah |
| 19:04.35 | Jayce^ | if you know perl :) lotsa hiring right now |
| 19:04.41 | Jayce^ | Hhhhh, depends on your skills |
| 19:04.46 | Hhhhh | there are plenty of opportunity for people in the UT industry, but they don't pay much |
| 19:04.51 | Jayce^ | we're having trouble finding enough qualified people |
| 19:05.02 | Jayce^ | and we pay quite well |
| 19:05.04 | Hhhhh | and outside of the industry there aren't that many |
| 19:05.08 | eikelmt | no, i dont know perl, i am more into PM and system integration |
| 19:05.21 | Hhhhh | Jayce: what do you do, quantum physics? |
| 19:05.37 | Jayce^ | hehe, quantum perl :) |
| 19:05.43 | Hhhhh | I know I could go out and get a job with no problem |
| 19:05.51 | Jayce^ | no, we're the web hosting division of United Online |
| 19:05.56 | Hhhhh | cool |
| 19:05.59 | eikelmt | I have been working with linux - microsoft integration -- just to relief microsoft |
| 19:15.44 | Hhhhh | I'm sure that Bill Gates feels much more relieved by knowing that even when using M$ products customers don't get locked-in |
| 19:16.44 | eikelmt | see you guys later take care bye bye |
| 19:16.48 | *** part/#utah eikelmt (~eikelmt@ont-cust-66.18.148.144.mpowercom.net) |
| 19:30.46 | vontrapp | what the flip is up with us.archive.ubuntu.com? |
| 19:32.50 | mrpull | aren't there some geocachers in here? |
| 19:33.59 | dataw0lf|w | vontrapp: ? |
| 19:34.08 | mrpull | http://www.gmaptrack.com/map/locations/208/411 |
| 19:34.17 | Hhhhh | I'm installing Windows Server 2003 Enterprise |
| 19:34.28 | Hhhhh | quick, someone give me crap |
| 19:34.55 | vontrapp | all i get is failed fetches from it, package lists and packages themselves both |
| 19:35.50 | dataw0lf|w | vontrapp: gimme a minute, I'll check it out. |
| 19:40.10 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (~timr@TimRiker.bronze.supporter.pdpc) |
| 19:40.10 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 19:40.28 | dataw0lf|w | vontrapp: damn, ok, for right now just change your sources.list to archive.ubuntu.com |
| 19:41.13 | Hhhhh | question: how much room should /boot have? I'm not planning on installing multiple kernels or anything |
| 19:41.46 | dataw0lf|w | Hhhhh: 6-10 mbs will do yah. |
| 19:42.43 | vontrapp | me recalls the recent thread where someone ran out of room on / and was asking what he could offload |
| 19:42.50 | vontrapp | but he had some large amount of space used in /root/ |
| 19:43.36 | tensai | Hhhhh: my boot is 6.6MB with just one kernel. initrd takes up most of that. plan on at least one more kernel in case of upgrades. |
| 19:44.27 | *** join/#utah decriptor (~decriptor@207.88.76.120.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 19:44.55 | Jayce^ | on systems where I'm not really worried about space, I'll do 50-75mb, expecting to keep several versions around just in case... and not have to worry |
| 19:45.29 | decriptor | does some have a good dns/bind book that they could recommend? I've started looking at the orielly one is that one the one to go with? |
| 19:46.41 | jsmith | decriptor: It's pretty good, especially the later editions. |
| 19:46.43 | dataw0lf|w | decriptor: yup, it's the best book imo on the subject. |
| 19:47.18 | Hhhhh | tensai: if I am making a Linux/Windows double boot, how big should /boot be? same? |
| 19:47.20 | decriptor | cool |
| 19:47.39 | decriptor | I've always done a 100 for dual systems |
| 19:47.42 | dataw0lf|w | DNS & Bind Cookbook is pretty good. |
| 19:47.51 | decriptor | same as what I do with a none dual |
| 19:47.59 | decriptor | I show that one |
| 19:48.02 | tensai | Hhhhh: I don't think dualboot-ness make a difference |
| 19:48.18 | decriptor | what is the base idea of the DNS & Bind Cookbook |
| 19:48.23 | tensai | I second Jayce^'s recommendation |
| 19:49.20 | Hhhhh | so dualboots don't need more /boot? |
| 19:50.16 | goozbach | no |
| 19:50.33 | tensai | when you boot windows from lilo or grub, all it does is read the boot record from the windows partition. outside the config file, there's no more configuration to it. |
| 19:50.36 | goozbach | grub or lilo just chainloads the windows loader |
| 19:50.59 | goozbach | I've always used 50-100M for boot |
| 19:51.06 | goozbach | on a 60G drive that's nothing |
| 19:51.14 | Hhhhh | oh, I thought Windows had more data in the MBR that was moved to /boot when installing grub |
| 19:51.15 | goozbach | you CAN live with less |
| 19:51.21 | goozbach | Hhhhh: nope |
| 19:51.26 | tensai | any more I avoid /boot altogether |
| 19:51.33 | Hhhhh | ok, thanks guys |
| 19:51.36 | Newsome | I usually do 100-200M for boot |
| 19:51.46 | goozbach | most of NT loader is in the first cylander of the windows partition |
| 19:53.27 | goozbach | matter of fact the MBR is much smaller with 'stage 1' of the NT loader than stage 1 of GRUB |
| 19:56.57 | Jayce^ | tensai, I usually keep it as my only ext3 partition.. just in case |
| 20:00.32 | *** join/#utah ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 20:00.32 | *** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com. See planetutah.adelantellc.com for aggregate feeds. | May the source be with you! | This week : Wednesday NUPM meeting (CGI::Path) 6:30 | Plug meeting (Ruby on Rails) 7:30 |
| 20:00.32 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 20:00.53 | Jayce^ | anybody else want to come try? |
| 20:03.19 | Hhhhh | sound fun |
| 20:03.46 | Hhhhh | plans with wife already though |
| 20:08.27 | goozbach | Jayce^: I'm leaving town, or the answer would be yes |
| 20:08.34 | Jayce^ | k |
| 20:14.44 | *** join/#utah ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 20:14.44 | *** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com. See planetutah.adelantellc.com for aggregate feeds. | May the source be with you! | This week : Wednesday NUPM meeting (CGI::Path) 6:30 | Plug meeting (Ruby on Rails) 7:30 |
| 20:14.45 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 20:16.25 | levi-laptop | Jayce^: Thai Delight. |
| 20:16.40 | Jayce^ | where's that one? |
| 20:16.51 | levi-laptop | It's out in West Jordan, just past Jordan Landing off Bangerter. |
| 20:17.00 | Jayce^ | I'm hearing really good things about the newer one in AF |
| 20:17.03 | Jayce^ | the one in the old house, on state |
| 20:18.17 | levi-laptop | I don't eat in Utah Valley very much. Thai Delight is excellent, so I don't really feel a need to explore much in the area of Thai food. :) |
| 20:19.47 | Jayce^ | Thai chili gardens has really dropped in quality, the guys here go to bangkok thai a lot |
| 20:19.49 | Jayce^ | :) |
| 20:32.26 | *** join/#utah ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 20:32.26 | *** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com. See planetutah.adelantellc.com for aggregate feeds. | May the source be with you! | This week : Wednesday NUPM meeting (CGI::Path) 6:30 | Plug meeting (Ruby on Rails) 7:30 |
| 20:32.26 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 20:33.08 | goozbach | ~dict pem |
| 20:35.52 | goozbach | is ^^^that the pem from sendmail.pem? |
| 20:37.30 | bucky | Totally Newsome Computers ? |
| 20:59.51 | goozbach | ~paint Jayce^ |
| 20:59.52 | ibot | ACTION rains a tape stream of paintballs on Jayce^ |
| 21:00.10 | goozbach | ~paint not being able to go shoot Jayce^ this weekend |
| 21:00.12 | ibot | ACTION rains a tape stream of paintballs on not being able to go shoot Jayce^ this weekend |
| 21:01.55 | *** join/#utah jsmith_ (~jsmith@64.50.35.114.2O7.net) |
| 21:08.46 | tensai | jsmith_: how's the book going? |
| 21:16.33 | *** join/#utah herlo_ (~herlo@c-67-177-6-89.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 21:17.42 | *** join/#utah herlo_ (~herlo@c-67-177-6-89.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 21:18.33 | *** join/#utah herlo_ (~herlo@c-67-177-6-89.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 21:19.23 | neybar | I am setting up a router that will be forwarding static ips into an internal private network. ex "internet" is 192.168.0.0, router/gateway is 192.168.0.25, the internal network is 192.168.1.1. I want 192.168.0.33 to map to 192.168.1.2. I think I have the iptables setup right. Now, the question I have is how can I make 192.168.0.33 get rerouted through 192.168.0.25 so that the router can do its thing. |
| 21:20.52 | neybar | does that make any sense? |
| 21:27.58 | tensai | on the router, add a static route to 192.168.0.33 through 192.168.0.25. most specific route wins. usually. |
| 21:28.21 | tensai | or have 192.168.0.33 proxy arp for it |
| 21:28.24 | tensai | er, .25 |
| 21:29.11 | neybar | I have this on the router: iptables -t nat -I PREROUTING -d 192.168.0.33 -j DNAT --to-destination 192.168.1.2 |
| 21:29.11 | neybar | > iptables -t nat -I POSTROUTING -s 192.168.1.2 -j SNAT --to-source 192.168.0.33 |
| 21:30.29 | neybar | I think that works ok. now I want to test that and see if it is actually working. how would I direct a ping request from a computer on the 192.168.0.0 network to 192.168.0.33 and make that request go through 192.168.0.25 |
| 21:30.33 | vontrapp | what is handling routing on the 192.168.0.0/16 side? |
| 21:31.22 | neybar | nothing, that is what I want to do. I tried seting up a static route like this: route add -host 192.168.0.33 gw 192.168.0.25 |
| 21:31.23 | vontrapp | you could probably route 192.168.0.0/16 via 192.168.0.25 and be ok |
| 21:31.29 | neybar | that didn't quite work |
| 21:36.55 | vontrapp | neybar: maybe you have the rule backwards? i don't know iptables, but it looks like maybe that would forward from 192.168.1.2 -to- 192.168.0.33 |
| 21:37.16 | *** join/#utah RyanE (~rerickson@204.246.145.6) |
| 21:40.13 | neybar | yeah the second rule does do that, so on the way out back to the internet it will get its public ip back |
| 21:40.56 | vontrapp | ah, ic, that does make sense |
| 21:48.09 | levi | Whoa, the Beethoven symphonies are suddenly downloading at a reasonable rate. |
| 21:49.33 | levi | Hmm, 9 won't be available until the 1st of July. |
| 21:56.51 | jsmith_ | tensai: Book is done. |
| 21:57.03 | jsmith_ | tensai: ISBN 0596009623 |
| 21:57.45 | jsmith_ | tensai: Just waiting for it to make its way through typesetting, a round or two of editing, and then it'll be on bookshelves. |
| 21:58.21 | levi | What book? |
| 21:58.53 | jsmith_ | levi: Book on Asterisk. |
| 22:13.07 | *** join/#utah lukfugl (~lukfugl@host-19.pl107798-3.fiber.net) |
| 22:13.12 | hans | ~lart lukfugl |
| 22:13.19 | lukfugl | ~lart ibot |
| 22:13.26 | lukfugl | ~lart hans |
| 22:13.35 | *** part/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@obelix.cs.byu.edu) |
| 22:14.02 | levi | jsmith_: You wrote the book? |
| 22:15.11 | jsmith_ | levi: Yes, a good portion of it -- had two other guys helping me out. |
| 22:15.17 | tapH20guru | congrats jsmith |
| 22:15.18 | levi | Cool. :) |
| 22:15.24 | tapH20guru | thanks again for the OALUG presentation |
| 22:15.29 | tapH20guru | it was amesome |
| 22:15.29 | jsmith_ | thanks guys... |
| 22:20.30 | lukfugl | what book? |
| 22:21.50 | tensai | lukfugl: jsmith wrote an Asterisk book. ISBN 0596009623. |
| 22:22.03 | lukfugl | congrats |
| 22:22.20 | tensai | it's still not listed on oreilly's website but I'm sure it'll be a big seller |
| 22:22.20 | jsmith | Thanks... |
| 22:22.27 | jsmith | tensai: I sure hope so :-) |
| 22:23.43 | Bradipo | jsmith: You don't have to feel guilty if you get rich writing a book. ;-) |
| 22:24.02 | tapH20guru | jsmith: did you get the animal assigned yet? |
| 22:24.03 | jsmith | Bradipo: No, I'm not feeling guilty -- I'm just stating the obvious :-) |
| 22:24.12 | jsmith | tapH20guru: No, not yet... still working on it. |
| 22:24.23 | tapH20guru | i just hope it's not the moose |
| 22:24.34 | tapH20guru | electric eel maybe |
| 22:24.36 | tensai | titmouse, titmouse! |
| 22:24.47 | jsmith | Yeah, me too... I'm hoping for the other option, but I don't know what to think. |
| 22:26.35 | tensai | jsmith: keep us posted when it's off to the presses so I can hit up my boss for one |
| 22:26.39 | tapH20guru | me too |
| 22:27.19 | jsmith | O'Reilly may do a special "download the PDF now, we'll send you the hardcopy later" thing with the book |
| 22:29.39 | vontrapp | moose are cool |
| 22:29.53 | vontrapp | electric eel would be more fitting, though |
| 22:30.57 | lukfugl | so O'Reilly's gonna follow the Pragmatic Bookshelf's lead? |
| 22:31.06 | jsmith | Naw... I'm holding out for a six-sided starfish :-) |
| 22:31.10 | lukfugl | I guess, that's not a beta though |
| 22:31.15 | lukfugl | it's just not in print yet |
| 22:34.13 | *** part/#utah RyanE (~rerickson@204.246.145.6) |
| 22:34.58 | hans | lukfugl: should be the same situation. the wait now is for the editors, printing, layout, etc. just like rails |
| 22:44.13 | lukfugl | hans: the rails book is still going through author revisions though (not just editing) |
| 22:44.48 | hans | oh I got the impression the authors were done |
| 22:45.36 | hans | if you have a unique string that identifies a row of a table, I'm guess it's still smart to have an integer primary key for performance reasons? what about just the sqlite case? |
| 22:46.26 | lukfugl | hans: yeah. We've got a situatiuon like that. A primary key for lookup, and then the identifying string marked unique |
| 22:46.42 | lukfugl | don't know how much of an advantage that is for sqlite though |
| 22:49.44 | hans | "if primary key is on a single column that has datatype INTEGER, then that column is used internally as the actual key of the B-Tree for the table. " |
| 23:07.22 | *** join/#utah ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 23:07.22 | *** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com. See planetutah.adelantellc.com for aggregate feeds. | May the source be with you! | This week : Wednesday NUPM meeting (CGI::Path) 6:30 | Plug meeting (Ruby on Rails) 7:30 |
| 23:07.22 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 23:09.52 | *** join/#utah wps (~wade@65.73.113.199) |
| 23:10.31 | jsmith | decriptor: I've used a ton of them... why? |
| 23:14.24 | *** join/#utah greygnome (~5h4d0r4n@69.2.248.18) |
| 23:26.11 | *** join/#utah WoodsDog (~woodsdog@pip.drs1.omniture.com) |
| 23:29.28 | decriptor | h.323 is supposed to be great for high volume traffic from what I have been reading |
| 23:29.49 | decriptor | but a lot have said sip is the ipcoming |
| 23:33.50 | hans | iax is great too |