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| 00:43.12 | hans | decriptor: that'll do it |
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| 01:24.26 | xbmodder_lappy | HEY Y'ALL! |
| 01:36.11 | mheath | Oh. He's back. =\ |
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| 02:47.54 | xbmodder_lappy | lol... mheath whats so bad about me? |
| 02:48.08 | xbmodder_lappy | I have been trying to be 'normal' as I can be. |
| 02:48.11 | xbmodder_lappy | Maquis, wasup? |
| 02:48.23 | mheath | I was joking =\ |
| 02:49.01 | xbmodder_lappy | mheath, seriously? |
| 02:49.12 | mheath | Serious about what? |
| 02:49.19 | mheath | Serious about me joking or about me polishing my shoes? |
| 02:49.22 | mheath | I was serious about both. |
| 02:49.33 | xbmodder_lappy | mheath, hehehe. |
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| 02:50.38 | xbmodder_lappy | Hhhhh, hey wasup? |
| 02:50.43 | Hhhhh | hello |
| 02:51.02 | Hhhhh | not much, just hanging out at home, waiting for wife to come back from class |
| 02:52.50 | levi-laptop | It looks like CMU has some great CS learning resources in their online class support stuff. |
| 02:53.07 | xbmodder_lappy | huh? |
| 02:53.57 | Hhhhh | CMU is a terrific school |
| 02:55.10 | Maquis | levi-laptop: CMU? |
| 02:55.12 | Maquis | oh... |
| 02:55.14 | Maquis | carnegie mellon |
| 02:55.48 | Hhhhh | hehe |
| 02:55.49 | xbmodder_lappy | oh. |
| 02:55.55 | Hhhhh | Carnegie Mellon made CS 324 |
| 02:55.57 | Hhhhh | for us |
| 02:56.00 | xbmodder_lappy | Maquis, thanks for filling me in. |
| 02:56.01 | Maquis | :) |
| 02:56.06 | Hhhhh | well, BYU CS bought it from CMU |
| 02:56.18 | levi-laptop | The texts, handouts, assignments, and sample solutions for their Principles of Programming and Foundations of Programming Languages Software classes are all available online. |
| 02:56.39 | levi-laptop | Hhhhh: What's 324 cover? |
| 02:56.49 | Hhhhh | as far as I know, BYU entered a deal with CMU and paid a lot of money |
| 02:56.59 | mheath | shining shoes is boring =\ |
| 02:57.02 | Hhhhh | 324 covers a lot of stuff |
| 02:57.03 | mheath | still have one more to do |
| 02:57.10 | Maquis | levi-laptop: that's way cool |
| 02:57.16 | Maquis | Hhhhh: yeah... tons of stuff :) |
| 02:57.31 | levi-laptop | Maquis: It's all implemented in SML and looks to be very math-intensive. |
| 02:57.41 | Hhhhh | IMHO they should have broken it up in 2 classes because the material is so much and all useful |
| 02:57.43 | levi-laptop | Hhhhh: What's the name of the course? |
| 02:57.49 | Maquis | levi-laptop: SML??? |
| 02:57.50 | Hhhhh | Computer Architecture |
| 02:58.04 | levi-laptop | Maquis: Standard ML |
| 02:58.12 | Maquis | Hhhhh: i didn't mind it too bad... it was a lot of work, but i liked it a good deal better than 312 |
| 02:58.14 | Hhhhh | they go over the programming quirks that are dependant on x86 |
| 02:58.17 | Maquis | levi-laptop: sorry... still lost |
| 02:58.19 | levi-laptop | Maquis: a functional language |
| 02:58.32 | Maquis | slightly less lost.... |
| 02:58.35 | Hhhhh | they talk about pretty much everything |
| 02:58.53 | levi-laptop | Maquis: http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~me/212/ |
| 02:58.59 | Hhhhh | Maquis: I liked 324 a lot, it's just that I wish we had gone a little bit slower and that we had covered the whole book |
| 02:59.09 | levi-laptop | Maquis: How's 312 work these days? |
| 02:59.15 | Hhhhh | but again I took it from the EE dept. |
| 02:59.17 | levi-laptop | Or did it get replaced by 325? |
| 02:59.21 | Hhhhh | that's called masoquism |
| 02:59.45 | xbmodder_lappy | Maquis, where does your nick come from? |
| 03:00.21 | Maquis | levi-laptop: i caught cs312 while it was in transition... at that point, it was c++.net... now it's c#.net |
| 03:00.28 | Maquis | windoze programming |
| 03:00.48 | Hhhhh | I think that C++.NET was a better option |
| 03:00.58 | Hhhhh | C# would make a nice replacement for Java in 142 though |
| 03:01.02 | Hhhhh | and 235, 236, etc |
| 03:01.55 | levi-laptop | Java's not so bad. |
| 03:02.54 | levi-laptop | Is 325 the one that used/uses the Patterson&Hennessy book? |
| 03:03.09 | Hhhhh | levi-laptop: it is not that bad, but I think C# has more future |
| 03:03.28 | emcnabb | here is a funny (in my opinion) Aussie commercial; it is on the borderline objectional to some: http://evan.mcnabbs.org/tmp/WeddingRing.wmv |
| 03:03.31 | Hhhhh | levi-laptop: especially for non-CS majors that have to take 142, C# also would be a better option |
| 03:03.37 | byronc | levi-laptop: 324 used to use the Patterson&Hennessy book |
| 03:04.54 | levi-laptop | Maquis: When I did 312, it was algorithms in straight C. 240 was C++. I did both on Linux. |
| 03:05.09 | Maquis | levi-laptop: 240 is still c++ on linux |
| 03:05.17 | Maquis | i would've loved to do 312 in C |
| 03:05.57 | levi-laptop | Hhhhh: I thought Java worked well in 235/236. I still have my code for my silly prologish interpreter. |
| 03:06.26 | levi-laptop | I'm sure C# would work just as well as Java, though. |
| 03:06.32 | Hhhhh | levi-laptop: Java did work well, it is a good language for CS intro classes |
| 03:06.51 | levi-laptop | I don't really have a preference for one over the other, I just know Java and not C#. |
| 03:07.05 | Hhhhh | levi-laptop: it's just that Java is dying, the only area where it still is strong is enterprise server software |
| 03:07.18 | Hhhhh | if you know Java it's very easy to learn C# |
| 03:07.27 | Hhhhh | you already got about 85% of the syntax |
| 03:08.00 | levi-laptop | Maquis: I think I'd have preferred to do 312 in a higher-level language. The debugging would have sucked much less. Maybe I'd have passed it. ;) |
| 03:08.31 | levi-laptop | I think I failed it due to some other reason than programs not working, though. It's hard to remember. |
| 03:09.03 | Hhhhh | the nice thing about C# is that it has the best things of Java and of C++. Also, GUI designers for C# are a heck of a lot better than for Java (VS.NET for Windows and Glade for Linux) |
| 03:09.14 | levi-laptop | Hhhhh: I think reports of Java's death are exaggerated. It'll be around for a while. |
| 03:09.41 | Hhhhh | I saw a really cool demo on how to make C# guis with glade, it was almost like VS.NET for linux |
| 03:09.49 | levi-laptop | That's pretty cool. |
| 03:09.59 | levi-laptop | There seem to be some nifty Mono apps for Linux. |
| 03:10.04 | Hhhhh | yea |
| 03:10.14 | Hhhhh | Novell is developing a lot of their own stuff using Mono |
| 03:10.20 | Hhhhh | all in C# |
| 03:10.33 | levi-laptop | Bah. I'll probably have to learn it at some point. |
| 03:10.47 | Hhhhh | It will really be easy for someone with a Java background |
| 03:11.05 | Hhhhh | check out a book and give it a look |
| 03:11.20 | levi-laptop | Sure, but what's the point? It owes its existence to little more than a MS/Sun turf war. |
| 03:11.38 | Hhhhh | but the language is good, regardless of who made it |
| 03:12.03 | Hhhhh | and Ximina has really done a good job at porting it to Linux |
| 03:12.06 | Hhhhh | Ximian* |
| 03:12.25 | levi-laptop | I don't have anything against it in particular, but I'd rather use some other language on the CLR if I'm going to code to .net. |
| 03:12.32 | Hhhhh | you can really grab C# .exe files and run them with a double click in either platform |
| 03:12.45 | Hhhhh | please don't say VB.NET |
| 03:12.47 | Hhhhh | hehe |
| 03:12.52 | levi-laptop | Of course not. |
| 03:13.01 | Hhhhh | C# really is a nice option |
| 03:13.07 | levi-laptop | There are smalltalk variants, some functional languages, etc. |
| 03:13.31 | levi-laptop | All languages that have something to offer over the mostly equivalent C#/Java continuum. |
| 03:13.34 | Hhhhh | yea, and those are very good too. I've seen terrific stuff done in Lisp |
| 03:13.52 | Hhhhh | For some reason those languages have caught on more in academia than in industry |
| 03:14.09 | Hhhhh | I think they're good, but I don't think they're the best option for a CS intro class |
| 03:14.14 | levi-laptop | I know you don't like it, but I've found Lisp very refreshing. |
| 03:14.19 | Hhhhh | it's OK |
| 03:14.29 | Hhhhh | it's not that I don't like it |
| 03:14.34 | levi-laptop | Have you ever used Common Lisp? |
| 03:14.41 | Hhhhh | actually I think functional languages are cool |
| 03:14.50 | Hhhhh | it's just that they're not used in my area of interest |
| 03:14.57 | Hhhhh | actually, C# isn't either |
| 03:15.03 | Hhhhh | i haven't used Lisp |
| 03:15.09 | Hhhhh | just Scheme for 330 |
| 03:15.28 | levi-laptop | It's different enough from Scheme to be considered separately, unless you just can't get over parentheses. |
| 03:16.01 | Hhhhh | hehe, yea, I guess I have a problem with the parenthesis |
| 03:16.12 | Hhhhh | but I really think that they're very cool |
| 03:16.19 | Hhhhh | just not down my alley |
| 03:16.48 | Hhhhh | I really have to stick to C/C++ |
| 03:16.49 | levi-laptop | It's more of a multi-paradigm language than Scheme. It lets you iterate without tail-recursion, for example. :) |
| 03:17.06 | Maquis | just taught my mom how to use itunes |
| 03:17.10 | Hhhhh | hehe |
| 03:17.13 | levi-laptop | Hhhhh: What requires you to stick to C/C++? |
| 03:17.21 | Hhhhh | graphics |
| 03:17.51 | levi-laptop | Did you change your nick at some point? I think we've had this conversation before. |
| 03:18.02 | Hhhhh | i'm talking graphics that require so much performance that interpreted languages altogether are a bit slow |
| 03:18.05 | Hhhhh | who, me? |
| 03:18.12 | levi-laptop | Yeah. |
| 03:18.19 | Hhhhh | no, always used this nick |
| 03:18.20 | levi-laptop | Oh, and Common Lisp isn't interpreted. |
| 03:18.30 | Hhhhh | that's cool |
| 03:18.40 | Hhhhh | i've heard of ray tracers in Lisp |
| 03:18.53 | levi-laptop | Well, some implementations have an interpreter as well as a compiler. |
| 03:18.55 | xbmodder_lappy | lisp? |
| 03:19.06 | Hhhhh | but graphics isn't really an area in which functional languages have caught on |
| 03:19.31 | Hhhhh | hehe, I'm not dissing Lisp |
| 03:19.52 | levi-laptop | Hhhhh: Common Lisp is not purely functional. It supports multiple paradigms. ML or Haskell are more purely functional. |
| 03:20.29 | levi-laptop | Hhhhh: A lot of the cool computer graphics done in the 80s were on Lisp Machines, actually. |
| 03:21.07 | levi-laptop | But its use for graphics kind of fell out of favor when its use in general did. |
| 03:21.24 | levi-laptop | Maquis: Sorry! |
| 03:21.58 | Maquis | levi-laptop: tis ok... |
| 03:22.20 | Maquis | i just seem to be around whenever this conversation occurs... :) |
| 03:22.23 | levi-laptop | Hhhhh: Anyway, if you're bored sometime, check out http://gigamonkeys.com/book/ |
| 03:23.02 | levi-laptop | Maquis: No, it occurs when you're not around, too. ;) |
| 03:23.20 | levi-laptop | I could talk about Smalltalk and Self instead! |
| 03:24.24 | Maquis | levi-laptop: ah... so it happens more than i know about... :) |
| 03:25.46 | levi-laptop | C is a mess. I wish Ada had caught on. |
| 03:26.43 | levi-laptop | Maquis: What do you like about C? Maybe some perspective would help me understand why you'd want to hold up that particular flag. :) |
| 03:28.18 | Maquis | levi-laptop: it's hard to explain... part of it is that it's a smaller instruction set than java/c++/etc... part of it is that my mind actually handles char*s... part of it is that it's the language that my mind seems to handle best... and on top of all that, i find it extremely useful... |
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| 03:32.05 | levi-laptop | The things I like about C: It's got a fairly small grammar and standard library, so it's easy to get familiar with most of it. It's got a very small runtime footprint, so it fits in embedded systems. It's mostly deterministic--you can control, for the most part, the timing of your program execution. |
| 03:34.00 | Maquis | yeah |
| 03:38.15 | levi-laptop | Things I don't like about C: Despite its small grammar and standard library, it's got a pretty large set of complex interactions that can bite you. It's extremely unsafe; little programming errors can cause huge problems. Really bad news in an embedded system, or anything that has to be secure. Manual memory allocation sucks. Very little support for abstraction without going to C++. Limiting control structures (unless you play with setjmp/longjm |
| 03:38.54 | levi-laptop | Takes a ton of source code lines to get anything done. |
| 03:40.13 | levi-laptop | The type system is pathetic. |
| 03:41.40 | levi-laptop | Due to lack of facilities for abstraction, you end up coding individual instances of common data types each time you use them. I can't count the number of linked-list implementations I've written in C... |
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| 03:42.37 | levi-laptop | Sure, you could write one that keeps track of the data via a void pointer, but then you're totally throwing the type system to the wind. |
| 03:42.59 | Maquis | mmm... yeah... |
| 03:43.02 | Maquis | meh |
| 03:43.03 | Maquis | :) |
| 03:43.17 | levi-laptop | C++ solves a lot of my gripes with C, actually. |
| 03:43.25 | levi-laptop | Especially if you use it with a garbage collector. |
| 03:43.41 | Maquis | so, who is dave smith, and what did he do to himself with this "piece of electronics with no warning labels"? |
| 03:44.04 | levi-laptop | It's just really, really big and complex and kind of hacked-together. |
| 03:44.27 | levi-laptop | And I can't get it to work on my embedded target machine. :( |
| 03:44.39 | levi-laptop | Well, I can't get g++ to work. |
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| 03:52.51 | colera | exit |
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| 04:07.40 | levi-laptop | Drat, CMU's math department isn't quite as progressive as their CS department. Their Concepts of Mathematics class has very little info online. |
| 04:10.52 | levi-laptop | Ooh, I found a textbook that seems to cover the same things online. |
| 04:18.08 | levi-laptop | I need to quit dinking around with this learning stuff and do my homework. :( |
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| 05:19.50 | Hhhhh | any soccer fans here? |
| 05:20.24 | Hhhhh | Real Salt Lake is playing my university back in my country tomorrow night |
| 05:20.29 | *** join/#utah xbmodder (~xbmodder@dsl092-015-136.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 05:20.37 | Hhhhh | ey xbmodder |
| 05:20.50 | JoshH | i havent bothered seeing real salt lake in action yet |
| 05:20.51 | Hhhhh | Real Salt Lake is going to get its butt kicked |
| 05:20.55 | xbmodder | hey Hhhhh |
| 05:21.02 | JoshH | i cant say im a soccer fan, but i am amused by european soccer fans rioting on TV |
| 05:21.04 | xbmodder | err something is broken in my xchat |
| 05:21.30 | JoshH | Hhhhh: here in america we have real sports. :P |
| 05:21.32 | Hhhhh | JoshH: European riots are nothing compared to SouthAmerican riots |
| 05:21.47 | Hhhhh | pff, you mean beefball? |
| 05:21.56 | Hhhhh | what you guys call football? |
| 05:22.13 | JoshH | in the nfl, the players need to wear pads and helmets to avoid death |
| 05:22.18 | Hhhhh | also we have a game similar to baseball down there, but only little girls play it |
| 05:22.29 | JoshH | baseball is just a pastime |
| 05:22.33 | JoshH | like golf |
| 05:22.34 | Hhhhh | yea, but in rugby we don't |
| 05:22.51 | JoshH | rugby has too many guys molesting eachother on the field |
| 05:22.55 | Hhhhh | lol |
| 05:23.10 | Hhhhh | also, in tennis, why should I say anything? |
| 05:23.14 | JoshH | no other sport has so many teabaggings |
| 05:23.40 | Hhhhh | the only sport I find interesting in America is hockey |
| 05:23.50 | JoshH | i only like the fighting in hockey |
| 05:24.05 | JoshH | its funny at hockey games, the crowd cheers the loudest during fights |
| 05:24.09 | Hhhhh | and basketball, I'd rather not say anything |
| 05:24.14 | JoshH | even louder than when the home team scores |
| 05:24.16 | Hhhhh | hehehe |
| 05:24.39 | JoshH | i wish it was still like the roman times |
| 05:24.50 | JoshH | when we could pack into the coliseum and watch people fighting to the death or being fed to lions |
| 05:24.55 | Hhhhh | yea |
| 05:24.59 | Hhhhh | that'd be cool |
| 05:25.13 | JoshH | thats what we should do with prisoners |
| 05:25.22 | JoshH | instead of keeping them on death row |
| 05:25.57 | Hhhhh | lol |
| 05:26.44 | JoshH | actually i think soccer is a good sport |
| 05:26.50 | JoshH | its just hard to get into, imo |
| 05:26.54 | JoshH | unless you grew up with it |
| 05:27.02 | Hhhhh | probably |
| 05:27.20 | Hhhhh | back in my country people play soccer everyday |
| 05:28.27 | JoshH | what country |
| 05:29.01 | Hhhhh | Chile |
| 05:29.59 | JoshH | cool |
| 05:30.28 | JoshH | i know a guy who's girlfriend is from chile, she is incredibly hot |
| 05:40.35 | fozz | JPEGs? |
| 05:40.40 | fozz | ;-) |
| 05:40.57 | Hhhhh | lol |
| 05:42.45 | JoshH | actually |
| 05:42.46 | JoshH | there are some |
| 05:43.08 | JoshH | but knowing the demographics of this channel, you might not like them. ;) |
| 05:43.18 | fozz | heh heh. You could /msg me. ;-) |
| 05:43.26 | JoshH | ok hang on |
| 05:43.52 | fozz | knowing the demographics of this channel... everyone in that demographic is asleep. :) |
| 05:44.09 | JoshH | good point |
| 05:44.40 | Hhhhh | heh, they're naughty JPGS? |
| 05:44.54 | JoshH | ok, here is one of her. warning, if you dont like boobs, dont click |
| 05:44.58 | JoshH | http://hektik.org/gallery/scrapbook_photos/DSC04711 |
| 05:45.01 | fozz | Hhhhh: Now that's YOUR imagination talkin. |
| 05:45.27 | JoshH | http://hektik.org/gallery/scrapbook_photos/DSC04709 |
| 05:45.28 | fozz | That's cute. |
| 05:45.44 | JoshH | http://hektik.org/gallery/scrapbook_photos/DSC04700 |
| 05:45.51 | JoshH | http://hektik.org/gallery/scrapbook_photos/DSC04691 |
| 05:46.00 | Hhhhh | fozz: heh, just trying to understand what you were talking about :p |
| 05:46.24 | JoshH | shes been in america like a year |
| 05:46.32 | JoshH | but as you can see, she is having a good time so far |
| 05:46.40 | fozz | heh heh. What's hektik.org? |
| 05:47.27 | JoshH | a site ran by a bunch of local SLC guys, they go around to all the big parties, club events, etc taking pics |
| 05:47.45 | fozz | Heh heh. Seedy underworld in SLC. :) |
| 05:47.50 | JoshH | exactly |
| 05:48.21 | JoshH | salt lake city weekly gave them the "best web renegades" award |
| 05:50.03 | fozz | Looks like some people will do anything for the chance to hold a piece of cardboard with a URL painted on it. |
| 05:50.50 | JoshH | some people definitely do way too much for it |
| 05:52.56 | fozz | I recognize Club Naked. |
| 05:53.13 | fozz | Or, at least, I think I do. |
| 05:56.29 | JoshH | finally, sid is starting to get some decent updates |
| 05:57.26 | luminerd | hey all |
| 05:57.48 | Hhhhh | hey luminerd |
| 05:57.53 | Hhhhh | still with the programming bug? |
| 05:59.52 | luminerd | Hhhhh, huh? |
| 06:01.17 | Hhhhh | just wandering, you still want to learn programming? |
| 06:01.38 | luminerd | Hhhhh, I decided to learn edje |
| 06:02.11 | luminerd | It will help with my graphics, since I really want to pursue graphics more than coding, and edje will go quite nicely with it and possibly launch me into more coding |
| 06:04.48 | Hhhhh | cool, that is a rather unsusual language to start learning coding but I'm sure you'll do fine |
| 06:05.52 | luminerd | Hhhhh, actually I started with actionscript, which is similar syntax to C, PHP, Java, and as I've learned, quite a lot of programming languages...Edje is so far making quite good sense to me, I am familiar with branches of code like this and I enjoy edje |
| 06:06.09 | luminerd | Hhhhh, thanks for the encouragement :) |
| 06:50.49 | luminerd | I need help! Will someone tell me how to rebuild and install wacom.o and hid.o? I have the .o files, I just don't know what to do wiht them |
| 06:51.39 | Newsome | luminerd: kernel modules? |
| 06:51.53 | luminerd | Newsome, yea |
| 06:52.05 | luminerd | Slackware 10.1 on a Dell Laptop, kernel 2.4 |
| 06:52.11 | luminerd | 2.4.22 |
| 06:52.43 | Newsome | luminerd: to rebuild, you ought to be able to just type "make modules" in the kernel source directory |
| 06:53.22 | luminerd | Newsome, kernel source dir? you mean the dir with wacom.o and hid.o? |
| 06:53.54 | Newsome | aren't they in something like /usr/src/linux-2.4.22/drivers/.../ ?? |
| 06:54.28 | Newsome | .o isn't a file you need to rebuild. They're the output of the build. |
| 06:54.30 | luminerd | yea, but how would it know to check a folder on my desktop for some .o's? |
| 06:55.26 | Newsome | Okay, back up. What are wacom.o and hid.o? Are they something you compiled? |
| 06:56.01 | luminerd | Newsome, linuxwacom files. it is usually not required to have these, I had to pass special parameters to ./configure in order to get them |
| 06:56.28 | luminerd | But with my current kernel configuration and my wacom tablet being fairly obscure, I needed these two |
| 06:57.04 | Newsome | So, they're out-of-kernel-tree modules? |
| 06:57.21 | luminerd | Newsome, not sure what you mean by that |
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| 06:58.15 | *** join/#utah luminerd (~luminerd@c-24-2-69-204.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 06:58.17 | luminerd | sorry about that |
| 06:58.55 | luminerd | linuxwacom.sf.net |
| 06:59.08 | Newsome | Okay, so you've already got wacom.o and hid.o? |
| 06:59.22 | luminerd | ;) been through every doc on that site many a time. support told me I needed these |
| 06:59.27 | luminerd | yea I have 'em |
| 06:59.44 | Newsome | okay, in that case, they're already built. |
| 07:00.13 | Newsome | you ought to be able to load them as modules with "insmod ./wacom.o" or something similar |
| 07:00.31 | luminerd | Newsome, cool...how do I get them installed? |
| 07:00.54 | luminerd | well I'd like them to load at startup, etc |
| 07:02.20 | Newsome | if they load correctly with insmod, you should be able to copy them to /lib/modules/`uname -r`/kernel/drivers/usb |
| 07:02.54 | luminerd | I see...once I insmod them, will I have to reboot or restart x do you suppose? |
| 07:03.52 | Newsome | once you've run insmod, you can check out /var/log/messages or run "dmesg" to see if they show up |
| 07:04.15 | luminerd | "they"? |
| 07:05.16 | Newsome | the guy who wrote up the docs doesn't seem to know how to load at boot through /etc/modules.conf, so he suggests putting the insmod into the rc.local file. |
| 07:05.18 | luminerd | damn! |
| 07:05.23 | luminerd | root@darkstar:/home/luminerd/Desktop/linuxwacom-0.6.8/src/2.4.22# insmod wacom.o |
| 07:05.23 | luminerd | insmod: a module named wacom already exists |
| 07:05.23 | luminerd | root@darkstar:/home/luminerd/Desktop/linuxwacom-0.6.8/src/2.4.22# insmod hid.o |
| 07:05.23 | luminerd | insmod: a module named hid already exists |
| 07:05.34 | Newsome | rmmod wacom |
| 07:05.43 | Newsome | rmmod hid |
| 07:05.48 | luminerd | no return |
| 07:05.59 | luminerd | on either |
| 07:06.04 | Newsome | that's fine |
| 07:06.17 | Newsome | means they were removed without any errors |
| 07:06.22 | luminerd | oic |
| 07:06.30 | luminerd | ok, retry now |
| 07:06.45 | Newsome | now, try the insmod again (make sure you specify ./wacom.o or it might revert to the old versions |
| 07:07.22 | luminerd | ./wacom.o? you mean the path to it? |
| 07:08.04 | Newsome | looks like you're already in the directory, but the full path should work |
| 07:08.26 | luminerd | wait, what's ./? |
| 07:08.36 | luminerd | it means here/? |
| 07:08.38 | Newsome | ./ means the current directory |
| 07:08.44 | luminerd | oh ok sweet :) |
| 07:09.24 | luminerd | ok, those both loaded...restart x? |
| 07:10.05 | Newsome | Probably. It looks like there's some information in that doc about configuring X. |
| 07:10.26 | luminerd | ok, yea I already went through everything and edited xorg.conf so it /should/ work |
| 07:10.38 | Newsome | yeah, _should_! :) |
| 07:10.39 | luminerd | :) thanks for the help |
| 07:10.42 | luminerd | wish me luck! |
| 07:10.43 | Newsome | good luck |
| 07:10.48 | luminerd | thx, brb |
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| 07:12.00 | luminerd | :/ |
| 07:12.05 | luminerd | no work. :( |
| 07:13.01 | Newsome | hmm, odd |
| 07:14.02 | luminerd | ah well |
| 07:14.07 | luminerd | Thanks for the help anyway |
| 07:14.11 | luminerd | too tired to go on tonight |
| 07:14.36 | Newsome | k, good luck tomorrow |
| 07:14.36 | luminerd | I sent out another support email, hopefully I get that back by tomorrow heh |
| 07:14.36 | luminerd | thanks tons though :) |
| 07:14.51 | luminerd | might just upgrade to 2.6.x hah |
| 07:14.56 | luminerd | ttyl |
| 07:15.05 | levi-laptop | I need more hours in the day. |
| 07:15.28 | luminerd | levi-laptop, so you feel the same way? haha, I wish I didn't have to sleep |
| 07:15.39 | luminerd | I haven't the last two nights, tonight I must :/ |
| 07:15.46 | luminerd | and I shall! ttyl |
| 07:18.27 | Newsome | Hmm, this is going to be interesting...how to run uisp without a parallel port on my laptop... |
| 07:50.41 | *** join/#utah ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 07:50.41 | *** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com. See planetutah.adelantellc.com for aggregate feeds. | May the source be with you! | This week : Wednesday NUPM meeting (CGI::Path) 6:30 | Plug meeting (Ruby on Rails) 7:30 |
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| 08:16.34 | TimRiker | hmm. gotta love it when googlebot/image notices your photo gallery has changed. |
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| 10:33.01 | *** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com. See planetutah.adelantellc.com for aggregate feeds. | May the source be with you! | This week : Wednesday NUPM meeting (CGI::Path) 6:30 | Plug meeting (Ruby on Rails) 7:30 |
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| 15:58.55 | vontrapp | o/` No animal, no man, can scream like I can! With the fury of my re-ci-tation! o/` |
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| 16:08.57 | macnewbold | anyone recording (audio and/or video) the plug meeting tonight on Rails? |
| 16:09.48 | Jayce^ | not that I know of |
| 16:16.59 | macnewbold | well, if anyone can get audio, video, or even just slides, I'd be very interested |
| 16:20.59 | fungus | Cool, I just realized I can actually go tonight. Just got my car fixed yesterday. |
| 16:21.37 | levi-laptop | What time does Plug usually end? |
| 16:22.09 | Jayce^ | real meeting content, about 90 minutes, but then some people stay for quite a while talking about anything and everything afterwards |
| 16:28.48 | levi-laptop | I'll see if I can make it. |
| 16:30.01 | *** join/#utah luminerd (1000@205.127.241.46) |
| 16:30.03 | luminerd | Anyone know of a free software to record your screen as you do stuff, and place it in an avi or a swf? |
| 16:31.48 | mheath | anyone know how to help a choking dog? my dogs over her choking on his food and I have no idea what to do! |
| 16:31.55 | Jayce^ | I know there are some, I've seen it, but can't remember the names |
| 16:32.00 | goozbach | luminerd: wink |
| 16:32.13 | tensai | goozbach: nudge, nudge. say no more. |
| 16:32.14 | goozbach | it's what we used for a flash demo on our website |
| 16:32.15 | luminerd | goozbach, a wink to me or wink is a program hehe |
| 16:32.16 | macnewbold | mheath: seriously: the heimlich maneuver |
| 16:32.25 | goozbach | wink the program |
| 16:32.27 | mheath | how do you do it on a dog? |
| 16:32.40 | mrpull | mheath: try google |
| 16:32.42 | macnewbold | find their ribs, |
| 16:32.43 | goozbach | http://www.gurulabs.com/other/GL_tsmenu_demo.php |
| 16:32.50 | mheath | actually, nevermind, he stopped |
| 16:32.52 | mheath | that scared me |
| 16:32.53 | macnewbold | and position your hands below their rib cage |
| 16:32.54 | macnewbold | oh, good |
| 16:33.01 | macnewbold | stopped cause he died? or cause he got it out? |
| 16:33.12 | goozbach | that demo is done with wink |
| 16:33.12 | mheath | he was like...half-coughing over and over again. Looked like he was joking |
| 16:33.13 | mheath | got it out |
| 16:33.22 | mheath | *choking |
| 16:33.26 | mheath | Why do I do that? |
| 16:33.30 | macnewbold | it's a good thing he got over it... if they pass out before their airway is clear, |
| 16:33.39 | macnewbold | then you have to clear it after they pass out, and revive them |
| 16:33.44 | macnewbold | with CPR-like techniques |
| 16:33.51 | macnewbold | mouth-to-mouth on a dog can't be too fun, I'm sure |
| 16:34.05 | mheath | mouth-to-nose |
| 16:34.12 | tensai | in people anyway, if they are choking but air can still pass then don't use the heimlich. better to have them continue coughing. |
| 16:34.15 | mheath | you can't seal your mouth over a dogs mouth, its the wrong shape. you use their nose. |
| 16:34.20 | macnewbold | probably easier,but still pretty gross |
| 16:34.28 | macnewbold | maybe more gross |
| 16:34.43 | mheath | tensai: I don't think he was passing air |
| 16:34.47 | mheath | he was like....sort of coughing |
| 16:34.56 | tensai | yeah, I've seen some people whose mouths I'd rather avoid |
| 16:34.59 | mheath | not coughing, but making weird noises like..half-coughing. |
| 16:35.05 | macnewbold | hair ball |
| 16:35.12 | levi-laptop | If you hear noise, air is passing. |
| 16:35.50 | levi-laptop | spr: Well, there are always zillions of bootleg tapes available for free to fix that problem. |
| 16:36.28 | spr | levi-laptop, true, and some good sites to download digital versions thereof. It's all about effort, and the fact I can't use bittorrent from work |
| 16:36.33 | mheath | todays my last day off until Monday =\ |
| 16:37.01 | tensai | spr: http://www.zmonkey.org/~tensai/dead/ |
| 16:37.10 | mheath | Anyone here have a SCSI CD-ROM drive I could borrow for a day or two? |
| 16:37.21 | tensai | not much, but there's my contribution |
| 16:37.26 | spr | tensai, thanks |
| 16:37.30 | mheath | Or a spare computer I could borrow |
| 16:37.42 | mheath | I'm trying to get Solaris on this Sun box |
| 16:37.51 | mheath | so I either need a non-broken SCS CD-ROM drive... |
| 16:38.04 | mheath | or a Linux box I can use as an NFS+TFTP server |
| 16:38.18 | mheath | *SCSI |
| 16:39.42 | goozbach | http://www.debugmode.com/wink/ |
| 16:42.28 | *** join/#utah ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 16:42.28 | *** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com. See planetutah.adelantellc.com for aggregate feeds. | May the source be with you! | This week : Wednesday NUPM meeting (CGI::Path) 6:30 | Plug meeting (Ruby on Rails) 7:30 |
| 16:42.29 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 16:43.58 | levi-laptop | Hmm, the BBC Radio 3 downloads of Beethoven's symphonies are awfully slow. |
| 16:44.27 | mheath | gthornock: ah, thats pretty far away |
| 16:44.41 | mheath | I think I'll see if I can find someone closer =\ |
| 16:44.47 | gthornock | OK |
| 16:44.57 | mheath | Thanks, though! |
| 16:47.40 | fungus | levi-laptop, yeah, 2.3KB/s :( |
| 16:53.59 | vontrapp | that's more than really slow |
| 16:54.12 | macnewbold | that's way _less_ than really slow |
| 16:54.20 | macnewbold | more than really slow would be not so slow, no? |
| 16:54.23 | macnewbold | ;) |
| 16:54.48 | macnewbold | 2.3KB/s is about what you'd get on a 28.8 modem... what's their server's uplink? |
| 16:55.20 | levi-laptop | I imagine it's a decent uplink, but with zillions of people saturating it. |
| 16:56.16 | vontrapp | more really than really slow |
| 16:56.27 | vontrapp | or more slow |
| 16:56.29 | vontrapp | or something |
| 16:57.18 | macnewbold | I've got beethoven's symphonies too... why are yall downloading them today? |
| 16:57.52 | vontrapp | sounds like a job for bittorrent anyway |
| 16:58.15 | levi-laptop | I've never got bittorrent to work for crap from work. |
| 16:58.16 | macnewbold | no kidding |
| 17:07.37 | fungus | macnewbold, http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/beethoven/downloads.shtml |
| 17:10.43 | *** join/#utah ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 17:10.43 | *** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah. See sllug.org, plug.org, uug.byu.edu, uvlug.org, fslc.usu.edu, nupm.org, utwaa.org, oalug.com. See planetutah.adelantellc.com for aggregate feeds. | May the source be with you! | This week : Wednesday NUPM meeting (CGI::Path) 6:30 | Plug meeting (Ruby on Rails) 7:30 |
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| 17:13.38 | hans | Google publically announced the program and opened the application process on the 31st of May. The deadline for applications was the next day: June 1st. |
| 17:14.27 | spr | hans, summer of code, or what? |
| 17:14.28 | macnewbold | hans: was that the summer of code? or something else? that's pretty lame. |
| 17:15.02 | spr | summer of code's deadline is june 14th |
| 17:20.58 | hans | code |
| 17:21.03 | hans | google's all full up now |
| 17:21.05 | hans | and has been since june 1 |
| 17:21.24 | hans | they're not accepting apps anymore |
| 17:34.43 | spr | really? They appeared to be on the 2nd |
| 17:34.45 | spr | crazy |
| 17:35.02 | spr | of course, I wouldn't mind $4500 to work on an open source project either |
| 17:37.19 | hans | spr: I got that quote from here: http://www.rubyweeklynews.org/20050605.html and a few days ago openvpn developers noted that they had tried to apply and were told they were all full up |
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| 17:46.44 | mrpu|| | helloworld |
| 17:47.46 | mrpull | ignore mrpu|| ... he is playing with a new pda/phone |
| 17:48.12 | goozbach | sweet which one? |
| 17:48.24 | vontrapp | won't be too hard, since it's not working :p |
| 17:48.35 | vontrapp | we can't hear you mrpull |
| 17:48.36 | mrpull | siemens sx66 |
| 17:48.48 | mheath | I want a treo..... |
| 17:49.30 | goozbach | I love my treo |
| 17:49.32 | mrpu|| | this is certainly a pda with a phone in it |
| 17:49.46 | mrpu|| | not the otherway around |
| 17:50.37 | mrpu|| | kinda chubby |
| 17:50.37 | mrpu|| | but so far so good |
| 17:50.58 | mrpu|| | the exchage integration is better than the treo |
| 17:51.09 | mrpu|| | plus it has wifi |
| 17:51.32 | goozbach | ohh wifi!!! |
| 17:51.34 | goozbach | score |
| 17:51.56 | mrpu|| | the keyboard isn't as nice as the 650 |
| 17:52.33 | mrpu|| | but it works reasonably well |
| 17:52.41 | mrpull | so far so good. |
| 17:52.51 | mrpull | too bad this IRC app isn't free |
| 17:53.26 | goozbach | mrpull: pssh + some command-line irc client + screen |
| 17:53.35 | mrpull | i considered that |
| 17:54.15 | mrpull | this app has a couple of touches |
| 17:54.25 | mrpull | word completion is nice |
| 17:54.34 | mrpull | but i do need an ssh client |
| 17:55.01 | mrpull | anybody else admit to using PPC in a treo/zaurus biased forum? |
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| 18:03.45 | Hhhhh | hello |
| 18:05.02 | macnewbold | hi Hhhhh |
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| 18:11.00 | *** join/#utah indesse1 (~ross@agilestudios.com) |
| 18:12.02 | indesse1 | k, quick SQL question: |
| 18:12.02 | indesse1 | SELECT * FROM person,country WHERE person.country_id=country.id; |
| 18:12.23 | indesse1 | Let's say I have a "name" column in both the person and country tables (so person.name and country.name). |
| 18:12.49 | jsmith | ok... |
| 18:13.07 | indesse1 | Is there any way to distinguish them in the result set without getting rid of my * and having to actually spell out each column name? |
| 18:13.15 | indesse1 | (Using JDBC, if that matters at all.) |
| 18:13.56 | indesse1 | Does that make sense? |
| 18:13.57 | gthornock | The result may vary depending on your DBMS. MySQL, as I recall, will call the first name field (person.name) `name` in the result, and the second one (country.name) will be `name1`. |
| 18:14.04 | jsmith | You can alias the columns. |
| 18:14.53 | gthornock | I'm not sure what Oracle or pgsql will do. |
| 18:14.53 | jsmith | As in SELECT person.name AS person_name... |
| 18:14.56 | indesse1 | jsmith: but is there any way to alias while still using * ? |
| 18:15.06 | indesse1 | gthornock: I'm using postgres. I'll give "name1" a shot. |
| 18:15.19 | jsmith | indesse1: It's a hack, but you could do SELECT *, person.name AS person_name, ... |
| 18:15.36 | indesse1 | jsmith: yeah, i thought about that, but figured there must be a better way :-) |
| 18:16.56 | gthornock | Can you try running the query directly from an interactive SQL environment or something like phpPGAdmin? Then, look at the names that your database returns for the columns. The names are determined on the server, so they should be the same ones you'll get using JDBC. |
| 18:17.18 | indesse1 | gthornock: psql on the command line gives me "name" for both columns. |
| 18:17.54 | gthornock | OK, name1 probably won't work, then. You may just have to specify the column names and alias them in the query. |
| 18:19.20 | indesse1 | that kind of ruins the whole reason I wanted to use * anyway |
| 18:19.31 | indesse1 | oh well. |
| 18:20.27 | indesse1 | I wanted the method that does the query to not have to know about specifics about the tables it's querying from, so it wouldn't have to modified in the case of later database modifications. |
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| 19:08.50 | vontrapp | permission denied to call method XMLHttpRequest.open |
| 19:09.00 | vontrapp | and i apparently have to sign my script for it to work |
| 19:09.30 | vontrapp | well, what if i'm still developing the script and don't want to go through bothersome signing stuff each time i modify it? |
| 19:12.44 | vontrapp | is there anything else i can do to get permission to call the method? browser settings maybe? |
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| 19:20.38 | fungus | IE or other? |
| 19:20.44 | macnewbold | vontrapp: it should work |
| 19:20.55 | macnewbold | I've done xmlhttp stuff before, no signing involved with anything |
| 19:21.02 | vontrapp | firefox |
| 19:21.09 | fungus | really?? hmm. |
| 19:21.10 | macnewbold | probably just a security setting |
| 19:21.22 | macnewbold | I didn't have to change mine off the defaults though |
| 19:21.31 | vontrapp | i haven't changed any security settings |
| 19:22.22 | vontrapp | how do you use it? with new XMLHttpRequest() and then obj.open(...) ? |
| 19:22.38 | macnewbold | mine does it with XMLHttpRequest(): |
| 19:22.44 | macnewbold | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:22.44 | macnewbold | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:22.44 | macnewbold | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:22.44 | macnewbold | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:22.58 | macnewbold | http://jibbering.com/2002/4/httprequest.html |
| 19:23.02 | macnewbold | http://tuckey.org/xmlhttp/ |
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| 19:38.57 | vontrapp | i don't know, that last link works, but mine, which is basically the same type thing, doesn't |
| 19:39.20 | vontrapp | the script is included using <script ... src="script.js"></script> |
| 19:39.26 | vontrapp | would that make a difference? |
| 19:45.42 | macnewbold | vontrapp: it shouldn't, but you never know. |
| 19:46.43 | vontrapp | well, i tried putting it inline and it still didn't work |
| 19:57.01 | tensai | ~lart actiontec pieces of junk |
| 20:05.22 | *** join/#utah tensai_ (~tensai@kite.zmonkey.org) |
| 20:07.59 | tensai | yay! I returned |
| 20:08.06 | tensai | tensai_++ |
| 20:08.11 | tensai | ~tensai_++ |
| 20:08.31 | dataw0lf|w | god, I hate actiontecs. |
| 20:09.29 | mrpull | anybody try the "nonsupported" actiontec firmware that came up on one of the mailing lists (plug maybe) recently? |
| 20:10.04 | tensai | not me. I can't risk ending up with a brick. |
| 20:10.15 | tensai | (which is only slightly less useful than a functional one of course) |
| 20:10.19 | mrpull | i'm brave (maybe stupid) |
| 20:10.47 | tensai | how'd it go? |
| 20:10.47 | mrpull | i've done an emergency recovery on a linksys... it's gotta be somewhat similar |
| 20:10.56 | JoshH | im using the firmware that was mentioned in that thread, and my actiontec has been up for 30 days now |
| 20:11.01 | JoshH | not bad for an actiontec |
| 20:11.13 | fungus | Does it any any new capabilities? |
| 20:11.21 | JoshH | kinda |
| 20:11.34 | fungus | Does it work on a 1524? |
| 20:11.55 | jsmith | JoshH: Is that the one they say isn't for Qwest? |
| 20:12.05 | JoshH | it adds more information to the web interface, and it adds more functionality to the firewall (not that that matters) |
| 20:12.15 | JoshH | but it seems to make it a lot more stable |
| 20:12.22 | JoshH | i dont think it will work on a 1524 |
| 20:12.29 | mrpull | JoshH: do you use the DNS server on it to serve linux clients? |
| 20:12.30 | fungus | damn! |
| 20:12.45 | JoshH | jsmith: qwest says not to get it from anywhere but their site, and actiontec says that too, but i dont think it actually matters. |
| 20:12.52 | JoshH | mrpull: my linux boxes use my isp's dns servers |
| 20:13.09 | jsmith | JoshH: I just wanted to make sure the I grab the right one :-) |
| 20:13.09 | Hhhhh | Utahs, prepare!!! Real Salt Lake is going to get its butt kicked tonight |
| 20:13.16 | mrpull | ok. i can crash mine on demand by allowing it to give DHCP addresses to linux boxes |
| 20:13.26 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (~timr@TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 20:13.26 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 20:13.33 | mrpull | even tho I tell it not to use 192.168.0.1 as a DNS server... it does |
| 20:13.38 | JoshH | jsmith: http://www.broadbandreports.com/r0/download/822945~8231c192155112ff77e5dba064aa9879/gt701wgqw043.60.2.0.6.3_upgrade.zip |
| 20:13.42 | JoshH | thats the one im using |
| 20:13.46 | JoshH | no complaints so far at all |
| 20:14.10 | JoshH | the latest version on the qwest site was a couple versions behind last time i checked |
| 20:14.41 | JoshH | mrpull: ya, i don't do dhcp on mine. ive seen what it does to our customers. *shudder* |
| 20:14.46 | tensai | I offloaded dhcp and dns to my server. actiontec wasn't reliable. |
| 20:16.06 | JoshH | consumer routers in general seem to have issues with handing out dns, in my experience |
| 20:16.25 | JoshH | the actiontec more so than most |
| 20:16.41 | mrpull | it works ok for my windows boxes |
| 20:16.47 | mrpull | i imagine that is all they test for |
| 20:17.04 | JoshH | jsmith: according to that forum, it was actually a qwest tech who told someone to use that firmware |
| 20:17.40 | JoshH | if i had to guess, i would imagine that using non-qwest firmware might void your warranty or something, or maybe they just tell people to only use theirs for legal/cya reasons |
| 20:18.25 | jsmith | JoshH: They've been so eager to send me a new modem that I'm not worried about it... the Actiontec is just my backup router anyway... |
| 20:19.49 | JoshH | i just like it because i don't have to buy a wireless router separately, otherwise i would go with a cisco 678. |
| 20:20.10 | tensai | I do like that it bridges the ethernet and wireless |
| 20:21.56 | vontrapp | grrr, why can't i call XMLHttpRequest.open!? |
| 20:22.01 | macnewbold | hehe |
| 20:22.10 | vontrapp | i don't get it... |
| 20:22.49 | levi-laptop | vontrapp: Because it hates you. |
| 20:23.00 | macnewbold | vontrapp: did you make a new obj first? |
| 20:23.06 | macnewbold | then call open on it? |
| 20:23.25 | macnewbold | or are you really trying to call XMLHttpRequest.open()? |
| 20:23.41 | vontrapp | a new object |
| 20:23.55 | macnewbold | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:24.00 | macnewbold | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:24.04 | vontrapp | ype |
| 20:24.05 | macnewbold | server.send(null) |
| 20:24.11 | macnewbold | var resp = server.responseText; |
| 20:24.11 | vontrapp | doesn't get that far |
| 20:24.15 | *** join/#utah tensai__ (~tensai@kite.zmonkey.org) |
| 20:24.22 | vontrapp | stops on "open" |
| 20:24.27 | macnewbold | what error does it give? |
| 20:24.44 | vontrapp | permission denied to call method XMLHttpRequest.open() |
| 20:25.20 | macnewbold | maybe you need to use sudo on it |
| 20:25.24 | macnewbold | ;) |
| 20:25.44 | macnewbold | is capitalization significant |
| 20:26.47 | macnewbold | ~google xmlhttprequest open permission denied |
| 20:27.50 | vontrapp | another thing is it's throwing exceptions whenever i "alert" |
| 20:28.02 | macnewbold | hehe |
| 20:28.05 | vontrapp | i googled that and it told me i need to sign my script |
| 20:28.14 | macnewbold | maybe your javascript got hax0red while you weren't looking |
| 20:28.31 | macnewbold | there's got to be a security setting for accepting unsigned code |
| 20:28.50 | macnewbold | I never had to change firefox from it's default though |
| 20:31.01 | macnewbold | but that was a while back, so it might have changed a little |
| 20:35.19 | macnewbold | gthornock: will you be posting slides/notes or something from tomorrow night's presentation on DansGuardian? |
| 20:35.24 | macnewbold | I'm interested, but can't make it |
| 20:35.39 | macnewbold | btw, especially if you know the good ways to set it up on FreeBSD |
| 20:35.54 | macnewbold | or good ways to use it without having a separate machine to run it on |
| 20:39.08 | vontrapp | this is retarded |
| 20:39.15 | fungus | Tomorrow DansGuardian |
| 20:39.16 | fungus | ? |
| 20:39.19 | fungus | sllug? |
| 20:39.23 | vontrapp | uug |
| 20:48.17 | vontrapp | well well, it works in the javascript console, but not in the page... |
| 20:48.23 | macnewbold | hehe |
| 20:49.12 | *** join/#utah chrisvv (~chrisvv@200.69.167.195) |
| 20:50.38 | tensai | ecuador, huh? |
| 20:50.49 | tensai | welcome to #utah |
| 21:02.48 | chrisvv | tensai, do u use debian ? |
| 21:04.23 | tensai | indeed. just about all of my boxes are debian |
| 21:04.49 | chrisvv | tensai,and i guess yu are a mormon ? |
| 21:06.10 | chrisvv | tensai, have you ever applied a kernel patch ? |
| 21:06.16 | tensai | you guessed right on me, but this channel isn't strictly that way |
| 21:06.47 | chrisvv | i know ....im a mormon from ecuador .... i speak mostly spanis :> |
| 21:06.47 | tensai | yes. I even have a patch in the kernel with my name on it |
| 21:07.42 | tensai | I only speak english and japanese :( we have a lot of portuguese speakers, maybe some spanish. |
| 21:08.23 | chrisvv | im trying to get usermodelinux running on my box .... i need to aply kernel-patch-skas.deb ..i aready downloaded but i dont know how to apply that patch ... |
| 21:09.17 | chrisvv | were u an lds missionary ? |
| 21:09.20 | Hhhhh | I speak Spanish |
| 21:09.29 | chrisvv | Hhhhh, hi |
| 21:09.31 | chrisvv | welcome |
| 21:09.33 | Hhhhh | hi |
| 21:09.51 | chrisvv | Hhhhh, did u learn spanish in the mission ? |
| 21:10.03 | Hhhhh | no, I's a native speaker |
| 21:10.09 | Hhhhh | I mean, I am a native speaker |
| 21:10.31 | chrisvv | Hhhhh, im from ecuador .... do u use debian ? |
| 21:10.40 | Hhhhh | no, I use Fedora |
| 21:10.54 | chrisvv | dough |
| 21:10.56 | Hhhhh | never tried debian |
| 21:11.02 | chrisvv | should |
| 21:11.20 | Hhhhh | why? |
| 21:11.41 | chrisvv | its fasster and clean of marketting icons |
| 21:13.09 | tensai | chrisvv: have you installed the .deb package? |
| 21:13.23 | chrisvv | tensai, yeap ... |
| 21:13.35 | chrisvv | got installed at /usr/src/kernl-patch |
| 21:13.40 | chrisvv | im using sarge |
| 21:13.49 | Hhhhh | why do I need an OS clean of marketing icons? |
| 21:14.20 | chrisvv | Hhhhh, generics makes you of better value |
| 21:14.34 | Hhhhh | and why? |
| 21:14.40 | Hhhhh | how does that fit what I need? |
| 21:15.04 | chrisvv | Hhhhh, never mind . |
| 21:15.50 | Hhhhh | I just wanted to make clear that you should know what I need and what I do before telling me "duh! you should use debian" |
| 21:15.58 | *** part/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@obelix.cs.byu.edu) |
| 21:15.59 | Hhhhh | no biggie though |
| 21:16.04 | tensai | chrisvv: what files did it install? |
| 21:16.19 | chrisvv | Hhhhh, sorry dude |
| 21:16.30 | tensai | do you have a kernel source tree? where is it? |
| 21:16.32 | Hhhhh | no prob man, no hard feelings here |
| 21:17.05 | *** join/#utah Ryan1 (~rerickson@204.246.145.6) |
| 21:17.57 | chrisvv | tensai, there is 2 directories here ....namely all and diffs |
| 21:18.54 | chrisvv | Hhhhh, what do u do ? |
| 21:20.30 | dataw0lf|w | chrisvv: you're not helping the rest of us Debian advocates with your aolbonics. |
| 21:21.23 | chrisvv | dataw0lf, sorry dont know what aolbonics mean ...im not a native speaker |
| 21:21.53 | JoshH | chrisvv: imagine a black aol user. |
| 21:23.46 | dataw0lf|w | ? |
| 21:23.56 | dataw0lf|w | No, imagine a AOL user. |
| 21:24.07 | hans | chrisvv: what is your native language? |
| 21:24.08 | dataw0lf|w | someone who uses 'u', 'ur', etc. |
| 21:24.15 | chrisvv | spanish |
| 21:24.34 | dataw0lf|w | JoshH: Nice racism, though. |
| 21:24.47 | hans | you could just speak that, half of us would understand. :) |
| 21:24.53 | hans | the important half, of course. |
| 21:25.06 | chrisvv | hans what dows aolbonics means ? |
| 21:26.13 | hans | ebonics = inner city 'hood talk |
| 21:26.13 | dataw0lf|w | usando palabras acortadas para hablar, sonando estúpido : 'u', 'ur', 'omgz', 'oic', etcetera |
| 21:26.30 | hans | aolbonics is a play on that, because aol users use a lot of those shortcuts |
| 21:27.00 | hans | first time I've heard the term, but it's funny I think |
| 21:27.02 | JoshH | dataw0lf: actually, it wasnt racist. |
| 21:27.11 | dataw0lf|w | JoshH: think of a 'black AOL user' |
| 21:27.14 | dataw0lf|w | that wasn't racist? |
| 21:27.16 | JoshH | but i should have clarified |
| 21:27.22 | dataw0lf|w | it came across that way. |
| 21:27.27 | levi-laptop | 'ebonics' is a word to describe an urban dialict of English. 'aolbonics' is a really stupid word based on that to describe the shortcuts in speech AOL users tend to take. |
| 21:27.40 | JoshH | ebonics generally means black urban slang/accent |
| 21:27.55 | JoshH | thats why its called ebonics, as in ebony |
| 21:28.11 | levi-laptop | ebonics itself is a mashup of 'ebony' for black and 'phonics', or word sounds. |
| 21:28.11 | chrisvv | tensai, inside all directory there are others directory "apply--> skas" and "unpatch -->skas" |
| 21:28.18 | JoshH | i should have clarified though |
| 21:28.35 | JoshH | im not remotely racist, although i admit i can laugh at a good ethnic joke. |
| 21:28.43 | dataw0lf|w | JoshH: I know what ebonics is. |
| 21:28.45 | levi-laptop | 'aolbonics' makes no sense at all. |
| 21:28.58 | dataw0lf|w | it doesn't have to make sense, everyone got it, except for chrisvv. |
| 21:29.03 | dataw0lf|w | Alot of words don't make sense. |
| 21:29.11 | dataw0lf|w | If you want your language to make sense, you certainly shouldn't use English. |
| 21:29.18 | *** join/#utah wps (~wade@207.108.169.214) |
| 21:29.22 | dataw0lf|w | a play on words doesn't have to be proper grammar. |
| 21:29.29 | dataw0lf|w | That's why it's a 'play' on words. |
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| 21:29.56 | hans | talk about painful |
| 21:30.01 | hans | trivial, but painful |
| 21:30.08 | Jayce^ | durep? |
| 21:30.16 | hans | http://www.hibernaculum.net/durep/examples/web-example.png |
| 21:30.18 | levi-laptop | Well, whether a play on words works or not is mostly a matter of taste, and I dislike 'aolbonics' on grounds of personal taste in wordplay. |
| 21:30.19 | chrisvv | bueno ...alguien sabe finalmente como parcho el kernel con estos archivos de debian ? |
| 21:30.19 | gthornock | macnewbold: Yes, I will be posting notes or something about the dansguardian presentatoin. |
| 21:30.34 | dataw0lf|w | Jayce^: disk usage reporting. |
| 21:30.45 | dataw0lf|w | it's some good stuff. |
| 21:30.57 | hans | chrisvv: lo siento, no se la historia. desde el principio? |
| 21:31.26 | hans | good results, no fun to set up. |
| 21:31.45 | hans | make install is braindead, for one thing |
| 21:31.54 | *** join/#utah bucky (~bucky@bucky.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 21:31.54 | hans | wrong permissions, doesn't make directories first, etc |
| 21:32.30 | hans | then you have to deduce what to do to get the output in the right place for the cgi. enough clues but no straightforward documentation |
| 21:32.38 | dataw0lf|w | hans: never had a problem with the deb package. |
| 21:32.53 | hans | dataw0lf|w: naturally. :) alas this was rhel |
| 21:33.04 | Jayce^ | poor hans |
| 21:33.06 | dataw0lf|w | hans: Ah, shame ;) |
| 21:33.19 | chrisvv | hans, necesito parchar mi kernel (2.6.8) con el parche SKAS (separate kernel address space ) . debian ofrece un parche ...pero solo es un paquete que me instala varios archivos ...algunos de los cuales son "ejecutables" .... y un pocotón de archivos ... y no sé como parchar el kernel asi |
| 21:34.23 | hans | compile == compilar? compilando en la manera debian o vainilla? |
| 21:34.35 | chrisvv | debian |
| 21:34.55 | dataw0lf|w | he apt-get the SKAS package and apparently is having problems with it. |
| 21:35.14 | hans | creo que make-kpkg parchara. what is the command line you're using? |
| 21:35.19 | *** join/#utah torriem (~torriem@c-67-177-53-78.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 21:35.44 | chrisvv | i install it but it was b4 kernel-source-2.6.8 and i dont know how to patch it |
| 21:36.39 | hans | my memory on make-kpkg is rusty, but I think it will automatically apply patches that are in the right place |
| 21:36.50 | chrisvv | hans, so i just need to run make-kpgp ? |
| 21:36.56 | hans | in the kernel tree |
| 21:37.03 | hans | with whatever options it needs |
| 21:37.57 | hans | mrpull: I never read that requirement |
| 21:38.02 | hans | and I survived |
| 21:39.05 | Jayce^ | hans, nah, you just passed the grace period a looong time ago |
| 21:40.54 | hans | well, when I was new, it was UUG |
| 21:40.57 | hans | maybe PLUG to |
| 21:42.23 | chrisvv | so i guess the best helper is "man make-kpgp" right ? |
| 21:42.45 | hans | make-kpkg |
| 21:42.56 | hans | probably, or the docs in /usr/share/doc/kernel-package |
| 21:43.19 | hans | sorry I don't remember - I used to do it that way, then I decided the vanilla way was simpler |
| 21:43.35 | hans | kernel-package has since been paged out. |
| 21:43.46 | Jayce^ | didn't you come to plug back when we were at the hard-disk cafe? |
| 21:44.06 | hans | no, not hard disk cafe |
| 21:44.12 | Jayce^ | ah, ok |
| 21:44.23 | hans | I did come to one or two perlmongers meetings when you started that |
| 21:47.02 | hans | chrisvv: also of course /usr/share/doc/kernel-patch-skas |
| 21:47.57 | chrisvv | hans thanks a lot dude |
| 21:49.31 | chrisvv | hans, you been nice ....not just to talking to me ... |
| 21:50.54 | chrisvv | hans, what is vanilla ? |
| 21:51.06 | vontrapp | well, i did figure out my open() problem, I was using the wrong address space, didn't match the document's address |
| 21:51.07 | chrisvv | "vinilla o debian " |
| 21:51.23 | hans | e.g. get the kernel from www.kernel.org, untar it, make config, make, make install |
| 21:51.37 | chrisvv | thats vainilla ? |
| 21:51.40 | hans | and in your case of course, download the skas patch and apply it before doing make config |
| 21:51.46 | bucky | chrisvv, are you still running your install kernel? |
| 21:51.49 | hans | yeah, that's the generic (vanilla) linux way |
| 21:52.02 | hans | the debian way is to get the kernel sources from apt, and use make-kpkg to build it |
| 21:52.11 | hans | then dpkg -i kernel-image-whatever.deb |
| 21:53.46 | bucky | chrisvv, if you've done a make of some kernel sources already then fakeroot make-kpkg modules_image will probably do it for you |
| 21:54.22 | bucky | if not apt-get some kernel sources and build the module at the same time like this: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/ch-kernel.en.html#s-kernel-debian |
| 21:54.34 | *** part/#utah macnewbold (~mac@69.2.248.251) |
| 21:55.07 | levi-laptop | Ahh, I have escaped from pointer purgatory once again! Alas, C gets me there far too often. |
| 21:56.58 | *** join/#utah luminerd (~luminerd@c-24-2-69-204.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 22:09.37 | chrisvv | bucky, thanks |
| 22:09.45 | bucky | np |
| 22:10.15 | chrisvv | bucky, is there any good ,clear newbie oriented debian kernel compiling (debian way) doc arround ? |
| 22:10.25 | bucky | http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/ch-kernel.en.html#s-kernel-debian |
| 22:12.58 | chrisvv | bucky, thanks .... |
| 22:13.03 | bucky | http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=2949 |
| 22:13.14 | bucky | there's another chrisvv |
| 22:13.44 | chrisvv | bucky, thanks again |
| 22:13.51 | bucky | np |
| 22:23.53 | TimRiker | s/had/has/ |
| 22:24.06 | bucky | he wants to build the skas module |
| 22:24.29 | TimRiker | ~skas |
| 22:25.11 | dataw0lf|w | Separate Kernel Address Space |
| 22:25.28 | vontrapp | ~skas is Seperate Kernal Address Space |
| 22:25.29 | ibot | vontrapp: okay |
| 22:25.43 | bucky | kernel-patch-skas - enhanced security and performance for user-mode linux by allowing the UML kernel to run in a separate address space from the UML user processes |
| 22:26.13 | mrpull | how does skas compare to xen? |
| 22:26.58 | bucky | xen is a Virtual Machine Monitor |
| 22:28.12 | dataw0lf|w | You mean, Xen compared to UML? |
| 22:28.21 | dataw0lf|w | Xen's performance is significantly better, from what I've heard. |
| 22:28.31 | dataw0lf|w | but obviously doesn't have the stability UML does. |
| 22:29.09 | mrpull | that is what i've heard as well. i hadn't heard of skas though. I haven't looked at UML for some time. |
| 22:29.26 | dataw0lf|w | neither have I. |
| 22:29.39 | dataw0lf|w | but if you talk to caker @ linode, he's been mightily impressed with the Xen performance. |
| 22:30.00 | dataw0lf|w | I think UML is ~40-60%, Xen is nearly 100% |
| 22:30.25 | TimRiker | 40-60%?? that does not sound right. I'd expect very near 100% |
| 22:30.40 | dataw0lf|w | UML isn't anywhere near 100%, last benchmarks I saw. |
| 22:30.51 | TimRiker | with or without kernel patches? |
| 22:31.01 | TimRiker | without, it's certianly slower. |
| 22:31.37 | dataw0lf|w | I'm positive caker is using all the latest and greatest kernel patches, and he's complained about UML's performance comparatively time and again |
| 22:31.55 | dataw0lf|w | (one of the reasons why he was running various testbeds of Xen servers) |
| 22:31.56 | mrpull | do they use both xen and uml in production? |
| 22:32.10 | dataw0lf|w | No, that's the problem, Xen isn't stable enough yet. |
| 22:32.30 | dataw0lf|w | but this was a couple months ago, so I'm unsure, I haven't spoke with caker for a while. |
| 22:32.34 | mrpull | i see. i've been encouraged by my tinkering with xen. |
| 22:32.38 | TimRiker | hmm. yep I see reference to with skas still only being 70% of native. that still surprises me. |
| 22:32.59 | mrpull | but even Suse 9.3's Xen kernel didn't work well for me out of the box |
| 22:33.02 | dataw0lf|w | http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/Research/SRG/netos/xen/performance.html |
| 22:33.32 | *** join/#utah gthonock (~gthornock@158.91.203.11) |
| 22:33.45 | dataw0lf|w | mrpull: I've been planning on trying out Xen on one of my debian servers but haven't gotten around to it yet. |
| 22:35.04 | mrpull | i've had the best luck with sarge |
| 22:35.17 | *** join/#utah herlo (~herlo@12.47.136.2) |
| 22:35.19 | mrpull | debootstrap makes it easy to setup guest hosts |
| 22:35.28 | dataw0lf|w | word. |
| 22:35.42 | mrpull | my suse and fedora tries have been less fruitful |
| 22:36.29 | mrpull | i cant say i'd trust it to production yet, but it shows serious potential |
| 22:37.07 | mrpull | shifting gears.... anybody use one of these criminally cheap SSL certs... like godaddy's $29/yr offer? |
| 22:37.31 | mrpull | self signing isn't the right solution in this case |
| 22:37.39 | Jayce^ | goozbach was mentioning that he wanted to do a Xen presentation :) |
| 22:38.42 | bucky | mrpull, i like free better http://www.cacert.org/ |
| 22:38.45 | luminerd | Hello, anyone know how to use vnc2swf? |
| 22:40.33 | mrpull | bucky: I cant install extra root certs on the clients (pda's & phones) |
| 22:40.46 | mrpull | bucky: doesn't cacert require that? |
| 22:41.34 | bucky | i don't think so |
| 22:42.29 | bucky | http://wiki.cacert.org/wiki/ |
| 22:43.14 | mrpull | it looks like their root cert isn't trusted by default by mozilla |
| 22:43.24 | goozbach | yum makes creating guest hosts as easy as debbootstrap |
| 22:43.30 | goozbach | fedora core |
| 22:43.32 | goozbach | centos |
| 22:43.36 | goozbach | RHEL |
| 22:43.57 | goozbach | I'm willing to do a presentation sometime here soon |
| 22:44.09 | mrpull | sign me up for goozbach's presentation |
| 22:44.25 | goozbach | mrpull: I trust it in production |
| 22:44.26 | mrpull | goozbach: didn't you say you use it for 2-3 production servers? |
| 22:44.38 | goozbach | 1 hostOS |
| 22:44.43 | goozbach | 3 production guests |
| 22:44.51 | goozbach | 1 CENT4 |
| 22:45.04 | goozbach | 1 RHEL4 |
| 22:45.08 | goozbach | 1 Gentoo |
| 22:46.58 | mrpull | slick. |
| 22:50.27 | *** join/#utah bonez39 (~aint@drjones.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 22:55.15 | *** part/#utah Ryan1 (~rerickson@204.246.145.6) |
| 22:55.54 | vontrapp | how do you import a script file like this: <script>some command to import</script> |
| 22:57.03 | mrpull | no opinions on godaddy SSL certs? for 30 bucks, i might just have to try it out. |
| 23:06.11 | *** part/#utah bucky (~bucky@bucky.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 23:12.56 | jsmith | mrpull: Try it out and let us know! |
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