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| 01:32.43 | scott | addicted to email? give me a break; just that people use it frequently doesn't imply they're addicted. |
| 01:53.46 | goozbach | you kidding me... the lack of email on the fslc list is causing me to break out in hives |
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| 01:55.00 | jsmith | scott: Especially when some of us are required to read several hundred (if not thousands) of emails a day. |
| 01:55.32 | flyboy^ | You are required to read several hundred e-mails a day? |
| 01:56.01 | jsmith | Yes. |
| 01:56.06 | jsmith | Unfortunately |
| 01:56.13 | flyboy^ | I hope that it's interesting e-mail. |
| 01:56.21 | jsmith | I hate the whole concept of "management by email" |
| 01:56.38 | flyboy^ | Oh - e-mail == your task list? |
| 01:56.49 | flyboy^ | And you have tons of really tiny tasks to do each day? |
| 01:57.57 | flyboy^ | I maybe get 30-50 e-mails a day, but most of it is script output from various jobs running in the system. |
| 01:58.16 | flyboy^ | I maybe get 10 actual 'human' e-mails. |
| 01:58.24 | jsmith | No, I've got hundreds of "alerts" from different processes that I'm required to read, plus tasks, plus discussions with different departments, etc. |
| 01:59.11 | flyboy^ | You do have, what, a few thousand servers you are looking after? |
| 01:59.35 | jsmith | Yes. |
| 02:00.12 | flyboy^ | I'd still love to take on that system. We are up to about 300 servers now, but, from what I've heard through the grape vine, you guys are really growing. |
| 02:01.13 | flyboy^ | John Mellor's nephew works with me, or did, his last day was today. |
| 02:01.50 | jsmith | flyboy^: Yeah, we're growing like mad. |
| 02:02.18 | jsmith | We've quadrupled our servers in the past 9 months. |
| 02:02.25 | flyboy^ | Wow. |
| 02:03.00 | jsmith | Yeah... it's a unique challenge to say the least |
| 02:03.47 | flyboy^ | I'd love to be in there with you tackling those problems. Sounds like a great experience. But, I tried and didn't get any place. |
| 02:04.10 | flyboy^ | Not even a call - so I figure you must have to have a PhD to work there or something. ;-) Or be someone's nephew. |
| 02:04.24 | jsmith | Naw... but we are a little picky about who we hire. |
| 02:04.46 | jsmith | What's your skillset, if you don't mind me asking... (and feel free to /msg me if you'd rather discuss it in a less public forum) |
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| 02:46.46 | herlo | l |
| 03:01.19 | dataw0lf | ooh, 9 ball is a game of champs. |
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| 03:11.34 | levi-laptop | Good evening. |
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| 03:29.31 | jsmith-9ball | dataw0lf: You'd better believe it... |
| 03:29.43 | jsmith-9ball | dataw0lf: And now that I've finished, I can go home. |
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| 04:44.40 | Maquis | http://news.com.com/Google+abets+open-source+internships/2100-7344_3-5727781.html?tag=sas.email |
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| 04:52.39 | levi-laptop | Maquis: I heard about that. Pretty cool. :) |
| 04:53.40 | Maquis | :) |
| 05:00.04 | levi-laptop | Too bad you're too busy to work on it, eh? ;) |
| 05:00.33 | Maquis | meh... it'd be fun... but i'm making better money than that |
| 05:00.36 | Maquis | anyway, i'm off to bed |
| 05:00.41 | levi-laptop | G'night! |
| 05:00.44 | Maquis | and apparently, my sound card hates me |
| 05:00.55 | levi-laptop | Nah, it's just Linux. ;) |
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| 06:56.52 | herlo | lars-ut: you need to check out herlo.org's picture link again..... |
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| 15:49.27 | hans | hmm next office to default to xml. that's good |
| 15:52.37 | Jayce^ | w00t! new "Perl Review" came out with my book review in it |
| 15:52.51 | bigdog_ut | hans, about time they did |
| 15:53.09 | bigdog_ut | perhaps will help with openoffice conversions |
| 15:57.11 | vontrapp | hans: is that next microsoft office? |
| 16:02.50 | bigdog_ut | yeah and that is the next gen file format of microsoft |
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| 16:21.38 | levi-laptop | Maybe they'll just come up with some sort of an XML serialization of their OLE objects, and it will be just as opaque as ever. |
| 16:32.36 | hans | odd. I wonder why I can't burn cdrw today |
| 16:33.04 | hans | it's been a while (maybe a kernel and/or cdrecord version or two ago), but this drive has burned cdrw fine before |
| 16:33.28 | hans | i thought it was the media, but this is the third failed disk |
| 16:38.41 | levi-laptop | hans: It hates you. Did you speak rudely to it lately? |
| 16:45.23 | hans | no, but joerg spoke rudely to someone I'm sure |
| 16:46.25 | jce | Any suggestions on which wireless bridge/repeater to get? I already have an access point, I just don't want to run cables all through my house. :) |
| 16:47.20 | hans | if ever a program needed forking, extra tlc, or replacing, it is cdrecord. |
| 16:50.49 | Bradipo | Anyone here running standalone dsl (aka naked) and using Xmission as the provider? |
| 16:52.19 | Bradipo | Or any other provider for that matter. |
| 16:52.32 | JoshH | i use standalone dsl with aros.net |
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| 16:56.56 | vontrapp | is there some kind of AND thing you can do with css? |
| 16:57.35 | vontrapp | for example, i want an element with a certain id and a certain class to be displayed a certain way, differently than either property alone |
| 16:58.31 | bigdog_ut | Bradipo, i have dsl with xmission |
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| 17:30.44 | hans | is it hard to make a simple livecd? |
| 17:31.03 | levi-laptop | Depends on whether your cd burner works or not. ;) |
| 17:31.07 | hans | I want to make a bootable cd that will run clam |
| 17:31.09 | hans | har har. :) |
| 17:31.27 | hans | as far as that goes, it burned a cdr just fine. must be something wacky |
| 17:32.01 | levi-laptop | Man, this Java groupwise client is annoying. |
| 17:32.24 | levi-laptop | Hopefully Groupwise support in Evolution doesn't take much longer to become fully-baked. |
| 17:32.33 | mheath | hans: it shouldn't be too hard to do that |
| 17:32.56 | hans | my live cd don't need no fancy hardware detection (just the hard drives and network card to get the most recent updates) |
| 17:32.58 | levi-laptop | mheath: Haven't seen you around much lately. |
| 17:33.02 | hans | no X |
| 17:33.13 | hans | just boot and clam |
| 17:33.14 | mheath | levi-laptop: I've been having computer problems |
| 17:33.25 | mheath | Right now I'm using my dads windows desktop |
| 17:33.26 | levi-laptop | mheath: That sucks. |
| 17:33.37 | mheath | I don't have enough hardware to piece together a working system at the moment |
| 17:34.02 | mheath | I am getting a Sun Microsystems Ultra Enterprise 1 server either tomorrow or Saturday, though :) |
| 17:34.42 | mheath | Anyone here familiar with Sparc stuff? |
| 17:35.04 | levi-laptop | I played with Sun ELCs for a while. I got Linux to run on them. |
| 17:35.14 | mheath | This thing is rather old, I know...but I was wondering if a 167 Mhz processor is tolerable (runing Solaris) |
| 17:35.38 | mheath | Never worked with Solaris or Sparc processors, so I don't know how to interpret their clock speeds |
| 17:36.03 | levi-laptop | It won't be fast, that's for sure. But it will be faster than no computer. |
| 17:36.36 | mheath | Well, I know it will be faster than an x86 167 Mhz processor |
| 17:36.40 | mheath | er |
| 17:36.44 | mheath | "Faster" is the wrong word |
| 17:36.55 | mheath | My programs will run better, I know |
| 17:37.12 | tensai | I've got a few sparcs. I think mine are ~200Mhz. they're servers, so I dunno about desktop performance. Bogomips are at 530. |
| 17:37.24 | levi-laptop | How does a program run 'better'? |
| 17:37.43 | mheath | levi-laptop: faster |
| 17:38.06 | mheath | I hesitate to use the word "faster' when comparing a 167 Mhz sparc to a 167 Mhz Pentium |
| 17:38.16 | mheath | Because, in the literal sense of things, they both run at the same speed |
| 17:38.35 | mheath | Just....Sparcs are designed and optomize to run Solaris, are they not? |
| 17:38.41 | mheath | *optomized |
| 17:39.00 | levi-laptop | Faster is a perfectly valid word. Clock speed isn't the sole determination of processing speed. |
| 17:39.02 | mheath | tensai: what in the Intel/AMD world would be at 530 Bogomips? |
| 17:39.32 | tensai | performance seems comparable to my k6-2 at 450Mhz. Disks in my sparc are faster though which helps. |
| 17:39.47 | mheath | Yeah, this has a SCSI HDD in it |
| 17:39.50 | mheath | and a SCSI CD-ROM |
| 17:40.30 | levi-laptop | It looks like, in some benchmark table I'm looking at, an UltraSPARC 140 is around the same speed as a PII-300. |
| 17:41.18 | mheath | I'm also trying to decide if I should leave Solaris on there, or throw Gentoo on |
| 17:41.25 | mheath | Solaris 9 |
| 17:41.34 | mheath | I think I'll at least try Solaris. Never played with it before. |
| 17:41.50 | levi-laptop | I have a friend who raves about Solaris. |
| 17:42.04 | mheath | yeah, me too |
| 17:42.16 | mheath | bah, it can't be bad |
| 17:42.18 | mheath | It's Unix :) |
| 17:43.13 | levi-laptop | Sounds like a decent box. |
| 17:43.32 | mheath | Yeah. Especially considering that I'm getting it for free! |
| 17:44.32 | levi-laptop | mheath: The CPU in that thing went for $1595 in quantities of 1000 when it was first released. |
| 17:44.45 | mheath | yeah |
| 17:44.47 | levi-laptop | In 1995. |
| 17:44.56 | mheath | further proof that Intel rips you off |
| 17:45.02 | mheath | And AMD |
| 17:45.11 | levi-laptop | Talk about depreciation. |
| 17:45.19 | mheath | Intels used to be the same way |
| 17:45.23 | levi-laptop | mheath: How is that proof that Intel rips you off? |
| 17:45.50 | mheath | levi-laptop: $1595 for 1000 processors? |
| 17:46.03 | levi-laptop | No, that's $1595 EACH. |
| 17:46.09 | levi-laptop | When you buy in lots of 1000. |
| 17:46.12 | mheath | Agh! |
| 17:46.14 | mheath | Wow. |
| 17:46.19 | levi-laptop | Yeah. |
| 17:46.48 | mheath | So this server is thousands of dollars |
| 17:46.53 | levi-laptop | Oh yeah. |
| 17:46.55 | levi-laptop | Was. |
| 17:46.58 | mheath | 9 GB SCSI HDD, 192 MB of ECC'd RAM |
| 17:47.13 | mheath | All that stuff was amazing back in '95 |
| 17:47.13 | levi-laptop | It would still cost several hundred dollars to buy it from a Sun reseller. |
| 17:47.32 | mheath | I wonder why he's giving this up for free O.o |
| 17:47.44 | mheath | I'm just getting it from someone in my local LUG |
| 17:48.07 | levi-laptop | I don't know how many people BUY them for that much, but apparently there is some market. |
| 17:48.27 | levi-laptop | The LUG guy probably got it for free from a company that was getting rid of them. |
| 17:48.32 | mheath | http://www.toponcefamily.com/blogs/images/computerlab2.jpg <--Here's a picture of it that he showed me |
| 17:48.37 | mheath | I get the Sun monitor, too :) |
| 17:48.52 | mheath | 8-bit 21" VGA 1280x1024 resolution |
| 17:49.02 | levi-laptop | And the Sun keyboard? |
| 17:49.28 | mheath | I assume so. Those take a unique type of keyboard, don't they? (Not PS/2) |
| 17:49.43 | levi-laptop | Sun Keyboards have the control key in the proper location. :) |
| 17:49.58 | mheath | haha |
| 17:50.07 | mheath | and it looks like hes got a mouse for it, too |
| 17:50.36 | levi-laptop | I had a box full of Sun optical mice at one point. |
| 18:34.41 | tapH20guru | mheath .. we'll miss you in the OALUG meeting on Sat |
| 18:34.54 | tapH20guru | i was thinking you could throw asterisk on it for a demo :) |
| 18:38.40 | tapH20guru | BTW: gentoo worked real well on my Sun Ultra 1 |
| 18:40.06 | bigdog_ut | and ultra 10 here |
| 18:41.40 | tapH20guru | pop quiz: what the name of the bus for expansion cards (ie: pci) used in the Ultra1 |
| 18:41.59 | tapH20guru | and I think the Ultra 10 |
| 18:46.00 | tapH20guru | clue: it's not VESA local bus :) |
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| 19:04.05 | vontrapp | ISA? |
| 19:06.07 | vontrapp | ADB? |
| 19:11.36 | tapH20guru | UPA |
| 19:11.39 | hans | PQR? |
| 19:12.23 | tapH20guru | lol... actually it is the SBUS |
| 19:12.56 | levi-laptop | The Short Bus? |
| 19:12.58 | tapH20guru | my Ultra 1 is the 3d creator model... it has both UPA and SBUS |
| 19:13.09 | hans | man, ponytail girl missed the exit again |
| 19:13.11 | hans | every time |
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| 19:23.47 | levi-laptop | ponytail girl? |
| 19:31.37 | mheath | tapH20guru: not to sound rude or anything, but who are you? Never seen you before....Are you the guy giving me the Sun? Or just a fellow OALUGer? :) |
| 19:33.13 | hans | who is he? he's the tapwater guru |
| 19:33.28 | mheath | haha |
| 19:37.20 | tapH20guru | I'm Scott Barber... an OALUG dude... i run the planetutah site, etc. |
| 19:37.24 | tapH20guru | all around geek |
| 19:37.39 | tapH20guru | AND... i'm the "tap" |
| 19:37.48 | mheath | ah, neat |
| 19:38.18 | mheath | I'm looking forward to getting that Sun box..... |
| 19:38.35 | mheath | I've been stuck with only limited access to this computer (A windows desktop that belongs to my dad) lately |
| 19:39.11 | tapH20guru | the ultra 1 is fun |
| 19:40.28 | mheath | Yeah. I've never had a Sparc system before |
| 19:40.34 | mheath | Should be fun :) |
| 19:41.20 | tapH20guru | if you need help throwning linux (Gentoo) on it see: http://scott.barberfam.com/index.php?s=ultra |
| 19:41.32 | tapH20guru | It took a few tries to get everything installed right |
| 19:41.49 | mheath | I'll do that |
| 19:41.55 | mheath | I think I'm going to give Solaris a try first, though |
| 19:42.00 | mheath | Always wanted to play with it |
| 19:42.07 | tapH20guru | will 10 run in it? |
| 19:42.19 | mheath | I don't know. He has 9 on there now, he said. |
| 19:43.02 | tapH20guru | that 21" will be nice with it |
| 19:43.17 | mheath | yeah |
| 19:43.17 | tapH20guru | i wonder what graphics card it has |
| 19:43.25 | mheath | probably next to nothing |
| 19:43.28 | mheath | its a server |
| 19:43.31 | vontrapp | hans: ponytail girl? |
| 19:43.39 | mheath | no need to put in a big graphics card |
| 19:43.49 | tapH20guru | true |
| 19:44.09 | mheath | That monitor will be useful too |
| 19:44.19 | mheath | I've been trying to piece together an x86 box |
| 19:44.28 | levi-laptop | Sun monitors use different connectors. |
| 19:44.32 | mheath | I used to have a couple working, but I've had a lot of stuff going bad on me |
| 19:44.35 | levi-laptop | You'd have to get an adapter. |
| 19:45.07 | mheath | levi-laptop: or just use the Sun as a display for the x86's X server (when I want to use the x86) |
| 19:45.16 | levi-laptop | Sure, that works too. |
| 19:45.48 | levi-laptop | My Suns were essentially X servers, but modern X stuff sucks in monochrome, so they still weren't terribly useful. |
| 19:46.12 | mheath | What Suns did you have? |
| 19:46.20 | tapH20guru | kde took 2 days to emerge on the Ultra 1... might wanna try fluxbox |
| 19:46.36 | mheath | bah, I never use KDE |
| 19:46.41 | tapH20guru | lol |
| 19:46.51 | mheath | I used to be a Gnome man |
| 19:46.59 | mheath | now I'm into Enlightenment DR17 |
| 19:47.08 | mheath | Though thats likely to not work well on the Sparc...yet. |
| 19:47.55 | mheath | tapH20guru: does GCC do a decent job at optomizing for sparcs? |
| 19:48.04 | mheath | I'm wondering what would run faster, Solaris or Gentoo |
| 19:48.10 | levi-laptop | I had ELCs. They were diskless workstations w/17" monochrome monitors built in. |
| 19:48.29 | levi-laptop | I would bet on Solaris. |
| 19:48.46 | mheath | GCC's optomization has never been particularly good |
| 19:49.06 | tapH20guru | not sure... I added -pipe and -fomit-frame-pointer to the make.conf |
| 19:49.16 | tapH20guru | don't have anything to compare it to |
| 19:49.26 | mheath | (Mind you, GCC is amazing....its the fact that it has to support such a broad range of platforms that makes its optomizations not too affective) |
| 19:49.33 | mheath | *effective |
| 19:49.53 | levi-laptop | Such a broad range of platforms and a broad range of languages. |
| 19:50.01 | tapH20guru | i wonder other distros would work... <cough> Ubuntu PPC? </cough> |
| 19:50.14 | mheath | Heh. |
| 19:50.48 | mheath | I know theres some work to port GNU (real GNU, with Hurd, not GNU/Linux) to the Sparc |
| 19:50.54 | mheath | don't know if it works yet, though |
| 19:50.55 | tapH20guru | I'm tempted to reinstall to see if the hw detection would work at all |
| 19:51.15 | mheath | On a Sparc? |
| 19:51.17 | mheath | I doubt it |
| 19:51.19 | tapH20guru | lol |
| 19:51.54 | mheath | haha, I could put amoeba on that thing! :D |
| 19:51.56 | tapH20guru | the only problem with my Ultra 1 is the HDD is so loud it sounds like an airplane is taking off in my cube |
| 19:52.21 | mheath | tapH20guru: scsi hard disks? |
| 19:52.25 | levi-laptop | Back in the days before silent hardware became important. :) |
| 19:52.35 | tapH20guru | yup.. 2 big old 2 gigers |
| 19:52.45 | mheath | This ones got a nice 9 giger |
| 19:52.50 | tapH20guru | double the noise |
| 19:53.03 | mheath | Yeah, but try to down that 'airplane' |
| 19:53.07 | mheath | rock solid reliability |
| 19:53.10 | mheath | blazing fast speed |
| 19:53.12 | tapH20guru | it was still loud when I swaped out one of the 2 for and old 9 gig |
| 19:53.15 | mheath | (for the time) |
| 19:53.41 | tapH20guru | they don't make em like they used to |
| 19:54.05 | mheath | yeah....computers are changing |
| 19:54.14 | mheath | and the people who use them, and the way they're used. |
| 19:55.28 | tensai | I run Debian sarge on my sparcs. woody had issues with my disks. |
| 19:56.03 | mheath | I'm wondering if, in 20 years, when my kids are sitting playing a game on a holographic display...They'll laugh at the fact that I used to sit in console using something like Emacs |
| 19:56.29 | tapH20guru | or.. they'll use the new 3d emacs (or vim) |
| 19:56.29 | mheath | even programming is changing. That used to be sacred :D |
| 19:57.22 | mheath | tapH20guru: nah |
| 19:57.30 | mheath | I seriously doubt it, in 20 years.... |
| 19:57.49 | tapH20guru | mheath... you're right everyone will wise up and just use vi :) |
| 19:58.30 | hans | programming is changing? |
| 19:58.54 | hans | vi and emacs have lasted this long. what's another 20 years? |
| 19:59.32 | mheath | Computer uses have been fundamentally the same for the past 40 years, though |
| 19:59.42 | Bradipo | Clueless? |
| 19:59.48 | mheath | The biggest changes have been recent |
| 20:00.05 | tapH20guru | I hope we'll get past the mouse and keyboard... gimme a powerglove anyday |
| 20:00.17 | Bradipo | Sorry, I misread that as ``computer users have been...'' |
| 20:00.18 | Bradipo | :-) |
| 20:00.39 | mheath | Only in the last 10 years or so have most households started to buy computers. Only in the past 10 years has the "Desktop Era" of computing started to take hold |
| 20:00.52 | levi-laptop | tapH20guru: The powerglove keyboard sucked. :) |
| 20:00.56 | tapH20guru | lol |
| 20:01.41 | mheath | You had your batch-processing era. You had your console era. Now you have your desktop era. |
| 20:01.46 | levi-laptop | mheath: I dunno, the 10 years before that were pretty darn full of rapid change, too. |
| 20:02.34 | hans | it's all been rapid change |
| 20:02.36 | mheath | I'm convinced that the next era of computing will make drastically change how people use computers |
| 20:02.45 | hans | sure it will |
| 20:02.54 | mheath | levi-laptop: I know theres been change |
| 20:03.00 | mheath | but think about it |
| 20:03.07 | hans | butt he previous drastic changes haven't made people not use vi and emacs |
| 20:03.22 | levi-laptop | Heh heh, he said butt. |
| 20:03.33 | hans | the only thing that would change that is a more efficient input system |
| 20:03.33 | mheath | Say 15 years ago, you wanted to edit a document on your shiny new MS-DOS system |
| 20:03.44 | mheath | So you type "edit filename" |
| 20:03.44 | hans | and you're hard pressed to do that without direct brain interface |
| 20:04.22 | TimRiker | mheath: well, perhaps edlin filename.txt |
| 20:04.28 | mheath | How is that much different than 20 years before that, when users started typing "vi filename" to edit their file? |
| 20:04.46 | hans | how is it different from now, when I type "vim filename" to edit my file? |
| 20:04.50 | tapH20guru | wow... edlin there's a throwback |
| 20:04.56 | hans | and even if I start it with a gui, it's still vim |
| 20:05.09 | TimRiker | ~lart gui vim |
| 20:05.24 | mheath | ~lart vim |
| 20:05.30 | tapH20guru | ~lart powerglove |
| 20:05.32 | levi-laptop | mheath: Most of what we have now was envisioned and demoed in its primitive form in '68. |
| 20:05.44 | hans | as long as source code is line-based, a terminal is going to be perfectly suited for editing it, and vi and emacs will rule. |
| 20:05.45 | mheath | levi-laptop: not the GUI |
| 20:05.50 | mheath | which is the biggest part of this phase of computing |
| 20:05.51 | levi-laptop | mheath: Yes, the GUI. |
| 20:05.59 | vontrapp | powerglove raises middle finger back at ibot |
| 20:06.02 | hans | of course the gui |
| 20:06.04 | tapH20guru | so it all goes back to the UI. |
| 20:06.05 | levi-laptop | mheath: Watch Doug Engelbart's 1968 demo video. |
| 20:06.10 | *** join/#utah spr (~spr@c-67-161-219-228.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 20:06.11 | mheath | levi-laptop: bah |
| 20:06.31 | mheath | Thats related to the modern GUI in the same way that a caveman's pointy stick is related to a rifle. |
| 20:06.31 | levi-laptop | mheath: Bah? Dude, have you watched the video? |
| 20:06.39 | mheath | Yes, I have. |
| 20:06.46 | levi-laptop | The modern GUI looks prettier, yes. |
| 20:06.59 | levi-laptop | But it's an incremental improvement, nothing revolutionary. |
| 20:07.38 | vontrapp | so it's more like a cavemans peashooter to a modern rifle |
| 20:07.45 | tapH20guru | TimRiker: I wonder what the mrs thinks about the 2116 :) |
| 20:08.31 | tapH20guru | TimRiker: I hope it's not taking up room in the basement... my wife would have a yardsale |
| 20:08.47 | *** part/#utah RyanE (~RyanE@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 20:09.08 | TimRiker | tapH20guru: she can't believe I leave my 'stang in the driveway and the 2116 in the garage. |
| 20:09.20 | mheath | I've got to leave for a bit |
| 20:09.33 | levi-laptop | Anyway, computers still don't live up to some aspects of his demo. |
| 20:09.40 | tapH20guru | TimRiker: wow.. now that what I call "Prioritizing" lol |
| 20:10.22 | TimRiker | =) |
| 20:10.22 | hans | things are going to change a lot. people will use computers differently. but as long as we're coding in languages like we have now (character-based) then you're going to have an editor. and as long as you have an editor, you need to interface with it, and there no appendage better equipped than the fingers (other than direct brain), and if you look at all the failed attempts to learn dvorak, I'd guess the keyboard in more or less its current form will still be |
| 20:10.33 | hans | given that dissertation, vi and emacs will still be around in 20 years. |
| 20:10.55 | levi-laptop | hans: I have no doubt of that. |
| 20:11.07 | hans | look at musical instruments - still finger-driven after all these years |
| 20:11.13 | tapH20guru | hans: right on |
| 20:11.14 | TimRiker | let's bring back edlin! /me ducks |
| 20:11.27 | levi-laptop | And a large percentage of computers will likely still run some version of Windows. |
| 20:11.33 | hans | TimRiker: someone told me the other day that edlin might be better than vi. never had heard of ex. |
| 20:12.06 | tapH20guru | ~lart edlin |
| 20:12.17 | hans | which is about like saying freecraft is better than warcraft 3 |
| 20:12.29 | tapH20guru | lol |
| 20:12.56 | hans | (disclaimer: I've never played warcraft, although I enjoy freecraft) |
| 20:13.56 | levi-laptop | edlin might be better than vi if you're editing over a real teletype terminal. |
| 20:14.07 | levi-laptop | In which case vi wouldn't work. |
| 20:17.44 | hans | naturally |
| 20:17.47 | *** join/#utah jsmith (~jsmith@64.50.35.114.2O7.net) |
| 20:17.52 | hans | but in that case ex would be better than edlin |
| 20:19.32 | TimRiker | levi-laptop: vim does have an ex mode for dumb terminals. |
| 20:19.44 | jsmith | Ah... good ol' edlin... Didn't know anyone still remembered it. |
| 20:20.01 | levi-laptop | For others interested in the early days of the GUI, Ivan Sutherland's '63 work on Sketchpad is the real beginning. It's not nearly as wide in scope as Engelbart's demo, but still pretty darn spiffy. It's also important as an OOP predecessor. |
| 20:20.19 | levi-laptop | How much does edlin differ from ed? |
| 20:21.31 | TimRiker | levi-laptop: similar concepts, totally different interface from what I recall. |
| 20:21.47 | TimRiker | there was an IBM mainframe app that was similar to edlin iirc. |
| 20:23.46 | TimRiker | levi-laptop: it's still around in windows. included in xp for example. |
| 20:24.09 | levi-laptop | Right, I've fired it up once or twice in dos and windows, but never really used it. |
| 20:29.23 | TimRiker | tapH20guru: well, vim is included with cygwin, and there shift-Q will get you to ex mode. |
| 20:30.17 | tapH20guru | lol |
| 20:31.00 | tapH20guru | TimRiker: no, I mean DOSbox... http://dosbox.sourceforge.net/news.php?show_news=1 |
| 20:31.57 | tapH20guru | i use DOSBox for my old dos games like Wold3d, Prince, LHX |
| 20:35.51 | TimRiker | tapH20guru: cool. |
| 20:36.21 | TimRiker | does it boot a real copy of dos? |
| 20:39.14 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (~bastage@c-24-2-80-89.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 20:40.28 | *** join/#utah bucky (~bucky@bucky.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 20:46.31 | hans | anyone played with isolinux before? |
| 20:47.58 | spr | hans, I have a bit, but not anything from scratch |
| 20:56.14 | vontrapp | ~lart sony |
| 20:56.27 | vontrapp | ~lart sony |
| 20:56.36 | vontrapp | lame |
| 21:15.22 | levi-laptop | http://www.bio.cam.ac.uk/~mw263/Perlis_Epigrams.html |
| 21:21.23 | hans | the initrd needs to know the root? |
| 21:21.35 | hans | isn't that messed up? can that be overridden on the boot line? |
| 21:21.35 | levi-laptop | hans: You should read that last link. |
| 21:24.45 | mrpull | can anyone vouch for nagiosql 2005? |
| 21:32.55 | jsmith | mrpull: Never tried it. |
| 21:33.24 | mrpull | i haven't played with nagios in 2/3 years... not since the new config file syntax |
| 21:33.39 | jsmith | It's too bad it just writes the .cfg files for you, instead of really using the database as a backend. |
| 21:44.50 | Jayce^ | don't you love it when your datacenter get's a strong smell of ozone? |
| 21:47.48 | dataw0lf|w | that's bout the time you quietly clock out and turn your phone off. |
| 21:47.57 | Jayce^ | hehe |
| 21:48.02 | dataw0lf|w | ;) |
| 21:48.25 | Jayce^ | our local center (dev stuff, no production) just had a rack that blew both power strips :( |
| 21:48.43 | Jayce^ | sad thing is, no change in what's been plugged in for about 3 months |
| 21:49.08 | dataw0lf|w | that sucks. |
| 21:49.09 | dataw0lf|w | 110? |
| 21:49.21 | Jayce^ | yeah |
| 21:50.37 | jsmith | Jayce^: Happened to me on Monday... except it was production servers, in a data center hundreds of miles away. |
| 21:51.08 | Jayce^ | jsmith, ouch, thankfully if that happened to us, it's at level 3 and powering clusters, so we have redundancy |
| 21:51.15 | Jayce^ | still would suck for one of us :) |
| 21:51.49 | jsmith | Yup. |
| 21:58.20 | *** join/#utah usynic (~synic@66.239.17.226.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 22:03.30 | lars-ut | ANybody have audio or video from Brandon's MythTV presentation? |
| 22:04.26 | lars-ut | Red Rover, Red Rover, please DCC lars-ut that file right over... |
| 22:05.46 | lars-ut | ... ... |
| 22:07.45 | bigdog_ut | ~news |
| 22:07.56 | jsmith | lars-ut: If you find it, let me know please :-) |
| 22:08.22 | lars-ut | will do. |
| 22:08.24 | *** part/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog@166.70.34.182) |
| 22:17.28 | jce | I wouldn't mind seeing that either... |
| 22:17.48 | mheath | If I had a working video camera, I'd video tape LUG meetings... |
| 22:18.03 | Jayce^ | well, the plug one wasn't recorded |
| 22:27.14 | lars-ut | the UVLUG one was recorded by an attendee, the following is all I know about him "I think he has a goatee and brown hair. He wears a funny hat (like Dr. Jones but green). I *think* his name might be Matt." |
| 22:28.01 | lars-ut | I'm guessing I'm never going to find this footage. |
| 22:29.03 | lars-ut | Man, I should have recorded the audio... |
| 22:30.01 | lars-ut | So Jayce ruled out the plug meeting... what about SLLUG? He presented on May 18 there, |
| 22:30.05 | vontrapp | ~lars lart-ut |
| 22:30.26 | lars-ut | Now I'm confused. |
| 22:30.30 | *** part/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@obelix.cs.byu.edu) |
| 22:31.27 | lars-ut | ~lars-ut |
| 22:32.05 | lars-ut | no SLLUGers that attended that meeting present? |
| 22:33.03 | lars-ut | how 'bout you bucky? Were you at the meeting or did the lake powell mafia prevent you from attending? |
| 22:33.35 | bucky | which meeting.. which mafia... the mormon mafia and priesthood meeting? |
| 22:33.44 | lars-ut | no, the other one. |
| 22:34.32 | lars-ut | Somebody's gotta' have a file... I'll come back and let y'all know if I find anything. |
| 22:34.51 | bucky | no but i called Shurtleff's office yesterday and they can't even find polygamists let alone crime here |
| 22:35.10 | lars-ut | lol |
| 22:59.54 | vontrapp | how are wep keys generated from passphrase? md5? sha1? something foreign and bizarre? |
| 23:00.25 | tapH20guru | each vendor does it differently |
| 23:04.19 | vontrapp | how about airport? or whatever apple's AP is called |
| 23:06.04 | Bradipo | vontrapp: I generate mine using /dev/urandom |
| 23:06.27 | vontrapp | the problem is i know the passphrase but not the key |
| 23:06.46 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@byu-gw.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 23:06.50 | Bradipo | Probably would work if you had a Mac... :-) |
| 23:15.41 | *** part/#utah tensai (~tensai@207.141.37.66) |
| 23:18.47 | hans | what about iwconfig, what algorithm does it use when you do "key s:foo"? |
| 23:58.15 | *** join/#utah xbmodder_lappy (~xbmodder@dsl092-015-136.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 23:58.17 | xbmodder_lappy | heylo |
| 23:58.19 | xbmodder_lappy | WEEEEEEEE! |
| 23:58.30 | xbmodder_lappy | Sorry. |
| 23:58.37 | linuxalien | Hi |
| 23:59.02 | linuxalien | Wow. My brother made dinner. CYa guys |
| 23:59.09 | xbmodder_lappy | c ya |
| 23:59.17 | xbmodder_lappy | how old are you? |
| 23:59.28 | linuxalien | 34 - cya |
| 23:59.54 | xbmodder_lappy | you live with your brother at 34? |
