| 00:15.42 | *** join/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@byu-gw.customer.csolutions.net) |
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| 02:00.22 | levi-laptop | Evening, guys. |
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| 02:03.34 | retina | ls |
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| 02:43.12 | xbmodder_lappy | hey all! |
| 02:43.17 | xbmodder_lappy | you might now know me |
| 02:43.21 | xbmodder_lappy | but its xbmodder |
| 02:43.22 | xbmodder_lappy | :) |
| 02:44.35 | tene | ~lart xbmodder |
| 02:46.20 | xbmodder_lappy | ah! (recieved signal 9) |
| 02:47.44 | goozbach | And there was much rejoicing |
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| 03:17.01 | xbmodder_lappy | lalal |
| 03:17.19 | xbmodder_lappy | how do you get a two-thousand dollar media system running on linux? |
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| 04:39.29 | tensai | Maquis: yeah, unfortunately I was confused by FAT12. stinking DOS. |
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| 05:12.35 | jce | greeting from SuSE 9.3 |
| 05:40.55 | *** join/#utah barkingspider (~barkingsp@c-24-2-80-89.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 06:06.57 | xbmodder_lappy | WEEWOO! |
| 06:07.05 | xbmodder_lappy | tensai, |
| 06:07.08 | xbmodder_lappy | jce, |
| 06:07.12 | tene | ~lart xbmodder |
| 06:07.14 | xbmodder_lappy | ~LART Maquis |
| 06:07.18 | xbmodder_lappy | tene, wasup? |
| 06:07.25 | tene | nm, just larting you |
| 06:07.25 | xbmodder_lappy | ~lart tene |
| 06:07.29 | tene | ~lart xbmodder |
| 06:07.35 | xbmodder_lappy | ~roulette |
| 06:07.36 | ibot | |roulette |
| 06:07.42 | xbmodder_lappy | ~deul tene |
| 06:07.47 | tene | ~tilde |
| 06:07.48 | ibot | extra, extra, read all about it, tilde is the thing usually to the left of the one key, or to represent home directory, or next to the enter key on sensible keyboards, or above hash, or probably located in different places on international keyboards but only UK keyboards matter, or the prefix to get ibot/jbot to listen to you |
| 06:07.51 | tene | ~~ |
| 06:08.06 | xbmodder_lappy | I love speakeasy |
| 06:08.09 | tene | ~space |
| 06:08.10 | ibot | from memory, space is a good place to bring a towel |
| 06:08.11 | xbmodder_lappy | Anyone want hosting? |
| 06:08.25 | tene | details? |
| 06:08.30 | tene | wait, nm |
| 06:08.35 | xbmodder_lappy | tene, 5 bucks a month |
| 06:08.40 | xbmodder_lappy | infinite bandwidth |
| 06:08.45 | xbmodder_lappy | *free |
| 06:08.53 | *** part/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@byu-gw.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 06:08.55 | xbmodder_lappy | I just need you to setup google ads |
| 06:08.55 | tene | I just wish I could get a decent connection here |
| 06:09.06 | xbmodder_lappy | and whatever you make off google ads send over |
| 06:09.20 | tene | but while I live with my parents, I'm stuck on comcast. |
| 06:09.24 | xbmodder_lappy | and something like a 5 dollar setup fee. |
| 06:09.30 | xbmodder_lappy | for a IP |
| 06:09.33 | xbmodder_lappy | dedicated IP |
| 06:09.37 | xbmodder_lappy | none of that other crap |
| 06:09.46 | xbmodder_lappy | you have a directory with FTP |
| 06:10.15 | tene | not really interested, xbm. |
| 06:13.44 | xbmodder_lappy | free? |
| 06:13.54 | xbmodder_lappy | SQL server |
| 06:13.58 | tene | don't have a use for it |
| 06:13.58 | xbmodder_lappy | infinite bandwidth |
| 06:14.06 | xbmodder_lappy | Its SQL |
| 06:14.06 | xbmodder_lappy | :) |
| 06:14.12 | xbmodder_lappy | it runs apache |
| 06:14.14 | tene | I can run my own sql |
| 06:14.17 | tene | and apache |
| 06:14.26 | tene | I don't have a need for anything better than what I have |
| 06:15.20 | xbmodder_lappy | comcast block port 80 incoming |
| 06:15.32 | tene | that's a lie |
| 06:15.38 | tene | http://allalone.org/ |
| 06:15.39 | tene | look |
| 06:15.42 | tene | that's on comcast |
| 06:15.45 | tene | it's right next to me |
| 06:15.54 | tene | *kick kick* |
| 06:15.58 | tene | I just kicked the box |
| 06:23.27 | xbmodder | hmm |
| 06:23.31 | xbmodder | thats odd. |
| 06:23.40 | xbmodder | Is XUL and easy language? |
| 06:23.50 | tene | ... |
| 06:24.01 | tene | Try asking again. |
| 06:24.12 | tene | except make sense |
| 06:24.18 | tene | and don't ask in a scary way. |
| 06:24.27 | xbmodder | Is XUL an easy to learn language? |
| 06:24.31 | xbmodder | :) |
| 06:24.48 | tene | no clue, never heard of it |
| 06:25.11 | xbmodder | Tene... What web browser do you use? |
| 06:25.29 | tene | Ahh, right, mozilla interface thinger. |
| 06:25.31 | tene | thx |
| 06:25.43 | xbmodder | lol... |
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| 14:39.17 | hans | I got sleep in linux, x with dri to work on the ibook, if anyone's interested |
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| 14:45.28 | levi-laptop | Nice. But no, I'm not interested. :) |
| 14:45.42 | levi-laptop | At least not interested in doing that to my iBook. |
| 14:47.18 | levi-laptop | Ooh, the 2006 Mazda MX-5 started production yesterday. |
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| 14:48.20 | hans | levi-laptop: if you only had 256M RAM you might be easier to convince. ;-) |
| 14:48.48 | levi-laptop | No, then I'd just buy RAM. |
| 14:49.06 | levi-laptop | But yeah, OS X got a lot quicker after adding RAM. |
| 14:49.35 | levi-laptop | It now feels very snappy, especially with the nice Quartz stuff. |
| 14:50.12 | levi-laptop | I really hate the current state of the Linux windowing system. |
| 14:52.27 | vontrapp | who's maintaining the plug list? |
| 14:53.21 | vontrapp | i got an undelivered mail returned to me |
| 14:53.21 | mrpull | does anybody geocode their photos? |
| 14:53.23 | vontrapp | but the strange thing is it did get delivered |
| 14:53.51 | vontrapp | somehow it was duped, and the dup got caught in some forwarding loop till postfix on orodruin kicked it back to me |
| 14:54.05 | *** part/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog@166.70.34.182) |
| 14:54.18 | vontrapp | ~geocode |
| 14:54.46 | mrpull | geocode == embed lat/lon in the exif headers of image files |
| 14:55.04 | mrpull | it's just for fun... but it is neat |
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| 15:14.28 | mrpull | holy cow I need to replace this burner |
| 15:15.20 | mrpull | i have a 48X burner sitting in a closet and i'm using a 4X |
| 15:20.10 | *** join/#utah tyce (~tyce@fw.oremut02.us.wh.verio.net) |
| 15:21.43 | tyce | anyone a bt user in here? |
| 15:27.35 | vontrapp | when there's something to bt and the bt goes faster than the http download |
| 15:29.03 | vontrapp | so a word of advise to anyone who wants to host a torrent, in the event that's there's not a large swarm, you better have your server antie up and give a good speed |
| 15:30.04 | vontrapp | i think a lot of times hosters of torrents think, great! free bandwidth, just let everyone else distribute it and my server can sit back and be lazy and cap it's bandwidth to something small |
| 15:30.18 | *** join/#utah JoshH (~JoshH@firebat.aros.net) |
| 15:30.26 | vontrapp | at least, that's been my experience |
| 15:31.12 | tyce | :) |
| 15:31.55 | tyce | Im just trying to figure out the best replacement for #bt and btefnet now that they are on sabadical |
| 15:32.00 | vontrapp | the idea of bittorrent is to distribute the load _when_ there is high load, not offload it from a server completely |
| 15:33.39 | vontrapp | i just find it annoying when i go to bt something after the hype and swarm have past, and get piss poor performance because the server wont serve up a decent speed and nobody else is there |
| 15:33.50 | Bradipo | How does it determine ``high load'' ? |
| 15:33.54 | vontrapp | </rant> |
| 15:34.01 | vontrapp | Bradipo: it doesn't have to |
| 15:34.12 | vontrapp | when lots of people are downloading, it "Just Works" |
| 15:34.23 | Bradipo | Then there is no _when_ there is high load. |
| 15:34.29 | Bradipo | It is always distributing for high loads. |
| 15:35.02 | vontrapp | when there's a hundred seeds, a client can and will gather from all those seeds |
| 15:35.13 | vontrapp | and the result is the server isn't hit as hard |
| 15:35.13 | Bradipo | Right. |
| 15:35.48 | vontrapp | when there's just the server and one client, why shouldn't the server feed that client at full speed? |
| 15:36.04 | Bradipo | So, it doesn't distribute when there are hundreds of clients, it distributes always. |
| 15:36.24 | Bradipo | Does it not get full bandwidth if there is only one client? |
| 15:36.35 | vontrapp | that's been my experience |
| 15:37.01 | vontrapp | fortunately there's often an equivalent http download which goes twice, sometimes thrice as fast |
| 15:37.31 | Bradipo | bt is really only good when there are a large number of participants. |
| 15:38.41 | vontrapp | it just smells to me like the server is being greedy and throttling bandwidth, though maybe there's technical things that make it so... |
| 15:39.59 | Bradipo | I don't know the innards of bt, so I'm not sure if it actually has bandwidth throtling built in. |
| 15:40.08 | mrpull | tyce: have you tried unrealtorrents.com ? |
| 15:40.39 | vontrapp | well, a client can throttle it's output, so i imagine a server can as well |
| 15:41.05 | vontrapp | mrpull: just started me on a rant is all, sorry ;) |
| 15:41.07 | Bradipo | Well, maybe most people go with the defaults and don't realize the server has an option. |
| 15:41.28 | tyce | yeah |
| 15:41.49 | tyce | Im just looking for something as strait forward as #bt and btefnet were for tv shows |
| 15:42.18 | tyce | more curious as to where all of the lol bt torrents are going now |
| 15:42.37 | tyce | cause you know the encoders are still cranking them out somewhere. |
| 15:43.06 | JoshH | torrentspy.com has a lot of stuff |
| 15:43.07 | tyce | torrentspy.com has a decent selection, but their layout is almost counter-intuitive at times. |
| 15:43.10 | mrpull | i cant say, my directtivo grabs more tv than I can watch :) |
| 15:43.15 | tene | thepiratebay.org |
| 15:43.17 | tyce | :) |
| 15:43.19 | tene | mininova |
| 15:43.20 | JoshH | tyce: their search works well though, imo |
| 15:43.28 | tene | isohunt |
| 15:43.51 | tyce | I have a mythtv box, but Id still rather wait, download and watch the better rips then my crappy cabletv gets |
| 15:44.15 | tyce | iProvo is so behind |
| 15:44.22 | tyce | no HDtv offered yet |
| 15:44.33 | tyce | I hate being part of an HOA |
| 15:46.12 | tyce | life was much better when I chose the ISP and cable provider for myself |
| 15:48.03 | vontrapp | how to enter a mac line ending in a terminal ? |
| 15:48.53 | vontrapp | ~HOA |
| 15:51.38 | levi-laptop | Heh, a sane overview of the Apple/KHTML relationship and all the fuss that resulted from the Acid2 passing: http://www.osviews.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=4400 |
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| 16:06.36 | vontrapp | ~stone paypal |
| 16:06.37 | ibot | ACTION hurls a boulder completely crushing paypal |
| 16:07.14 | levi-laptop | vontrapp: What do you mean by 'enter a mac line ending in a terminal'? |
| 16:09.08 | Bradipo | I think he means how to enter the \n (or is it \r in Mac) from the command line... |
| 16:09.38 | Bradipo | Like: ctrl-v enter |
| 16:09.47 | hans | quick poll. what is your /etc/hosts entry for you hostname, and does it matter to you? |
| 16:09.56 | Bradipo | Which I assume should translate properly on the Mac as well. |
| 16:10.02 | hans | e.g. mine is |
| 16:10.05 | hans | 127.0.0.1 falcon localhost |
| 16:10.31 | Bradipo | I don't normally have the hostname resolve to 127.0.0.1 |
| 16:10.45 | hans | I've had problems with it resolving to the IP address |
| 16:10.46 | Bradipo | It only matters when trying to migrate the system to another IP. :-) |
| 16:10.55 | hans | and they weren't migration problems |
| 16:11.09 | Bradipo | I was answering the second part of the question. |
| 16:11.43 | Bradipo | Although, I have found that it generally has to be correct if you intend to run things like apache and oracle. |
| 16:11.45 | hans | this braindead vendor is resolving the hostname and sending out the ip address as a broadcast for clients to connect to |
| 16:12.04 | Bradipo | Resolving via DNS? |
| 16:12.50 | hans | probably via libraries. we were at an empasse because I didn't want to change /etc/hosts that way and they were brain dead |
| 16:13.21 | hans | but it turns out they are doing a lookup on the fqdn, which I don't mind taking out of /etc/hosts |
| 16:13.28 | hans | and then it used dns, and we're all happy |
| 16:13.42 | hans | I was just wondering if I'm loony for caring about that /etc/hosts entry. |
| 16:15.01 | Bradipo | I don't think so. |
| 16:15.16 | vontrapp | for some things at least (e.g. tr) \r works |
| 16:15.38 | Bradipo | vontrapp: What are you trying to do exactly? |
| 16:15.49 | vontrapp | tr \\r \\n |
| 16:28.04 | hans | Bradipo: well, doing some research online about it and now I'm royally confused |
| 16:28.26 | Bradipo | About hostname? |
| 16:28.31 | Bradipo | Er /etc/hosts... |
| 16:28.48 | hans | right, whether to put the hostname on 127.0.0.1 line or not |
| 16:29.09 | Bradipo | Yeah, that's a tough call. I normally don't. |
| 16:29.19 | hans | and I can't remember what problems I experienced by not doing so |
| 16:29.24 | vontrapp | *sigh* well now i guess i have to send a check snail mail and double my waiting time |
| 16:29.29 | vontrapp | stupid paypal |
| 16:34.56 | *** join/#utah jsmith (~jsmith@64.50.35.114.2O7.net) |
| 16:35.33 | tensai | hans: if dns is out you'll have problems. daemons really don't like not being able to resolve their hostname. syslog for one. |
| 16:35.48 | tensai | I've had problems with gnome before too when it couldn't resolve the hostname |
| 16:36.05 | hans | yeah |
| 16:36.21 | hans | what about putting the hostname on a line with its ip address? |
| 16:36.32 | hans | vs. the 127.0.0.1 line |
| 16:36.38 | hans | which is preferable? |
| 16:38.53 | tensai | depends on whether the ip address will change and what address you want traffic on. lots of 127.0.0.1 traffic will move to the primary ip |
| 16:39.07 | tensai | my preference is to list the hostname on it's own line as 127.0.0.1 |
| 16:39.43 | tensai | in some cases I've left the hostname out and forced it back to dns. I forget why now but I know it's come up where that worked better. |
| 16:45.55 | hans | I'm taking it to plug |
| 16:46.04 | hans | feel free to repeat yourselves there. :) |
| 16:56.26 | hans | 'To say that George Lucas cannot write a love scene is an understatement; greeting cards have expressed more passion.' |
| 16:59.28 | dataw0lf|w | I dunno, I thought when Han was about to get dipped into carbon in Empire and Leia ran up, it was pretty good. |
| 17:00.44 | JoshH | ya, but "i hate sand" wasnt nearly as good |
| 17:00.59 | JoshH | honestly though the good parts about episode II totally overshadow the bad parts, imo |
| 17:01.21 | JoshH | the love story attempt doesnt even bother me |
| 17:01.25 | hans | I don't know about overshadow. maybe balance. |
| 17:01.46 | hans | I could stand a lot of bad acting, but hayden is too bad. |
| 17:02.14 | dataw0lf|w | the kid who played Anakin in the first was just as bad. |
| 17:03.35 | JoshH | everything from the start of the arena scene to the end of the movie is pure awesomeness |
| 17:03.35 | JoshH | and there are other good parts too of course |
| 17:03.36 | JoshH | and the only reason nobody thought "but i want to go to toschi station to pick up some power converters!" was bad is because we were kids when we first saw it. |
| 17:03.37 | JoshH | i actually thought the anakin in episde I was even worse |
| 17:04.13 | hans | mm, no. not great, but not tooo bad for a kid |
| 17:04.14 | dataw0lf|w | 2 was ok. |
| 17:04.35 | dataw0lf|w | hans: You're wrong. That kid was the worst actor I've ever seen (at that age) |
| 17:04.42 | hans | the toschi station line is bad acting, but at least it has feeling |
| 17:04.51 | JoshH | i didnt think the kid was a bad actor actually, i just didnt like some of his lines. like "yippeee" and "are you an angel" |
| 17:04.56 | hans | hayden is about the driest thing ever |
| 17:04.58 | JoshH | then during hte space battle "this is tense" |
| 17:05.13 | JoshH | and he shouldnt have been called "ani" |
| 17:05.19 | JoshH | it just sounds too gay |
| 17:05.29 | hans | that's why he turned to the dark side, don't you know? ;) |
| 17:05.51 | hans | imagine vader in ep4 holding up the guy at the beginning by the throat. "And don't call me Ani!" |
| 17:05.59 | JoshH | haha |
| 17:06.17 | JoshH | im sure hayden will be a lot better in episode 3 though |
| 17:06.20 | JoshH | at least i really hope so |
| 17:07.05 | hans | at least his hair is longer |
| 17:07.09 | JoshH | if episode 1 didnt have jarjar, and episode 2 had better love story scenes, i don't think anyone could have any reasonable complaints about the prequels |
| 17:07.11 | hans | and he'll have red contacts |
| 17:07.24 | hans | agreed |
| 17:07.50 | hans | i think hayden does ok with the angst scenes |
| 17:07.57 | JoshH | ewan mcgregor and christopher lee are good enough actors to make up for hayden and jarjar, and samuel l jackson doesnt hurt either |
| 17:08.13 | hans | and liam neeson |
| 17:08.20 | JoshH | ya, qui gon was great |
| 17:08.23 | JoshH | so was darth maul |
| 17:08.36 | dataw0lf|w | oh yeah, that was some great acting talent. |
| 17:08.50 | dataw0lf|w | Darth Maul was almost as bad as Jar Jar for me in Episode 1. |
| 17:09.23 | JoshH | i thought he rocked. its still the best lightsaber battle in any of the movies |
| 17:10.01 | hans | hey look, jacko's using the force. |
| 17:10.03 | hans | http://news.google.com/news?imgefp=tTmEOezxGb0J&imgurl=a123.g.akamai.net/f/123/12465/1d/media.canada.com/cp/entertainment/20050516/e051626a.jpg |
| 17:10.22 | JoshH | heh, he always does that to cameras |
| 17:10.25 | JoshH | trying to force push them |
| 17:10.57 | dataw0lf|w | 'These aren't the little boys you're looking for.' |
| 17:11.10 | JoshH | rofl |
| 17:11.28 | *** join/#utah Jayce^ (~Jayce_@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 17:11.28 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 17:11.41 | hans | Jayce^: you missed jacko using the force. |
| 17:12.21 | *** join/#utah fozz (~fozz@166.70.238.250) |
| 17:12.24 | Jayce^ | ooh |
| 17:12.28 | fozz | oooh yeah! |
| 17:12.36 | fozz | I'm back! |
| 17:12.42 | hans | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:12.51 | *** part/#utah Newsome (~sorenson@sorenson.dsl.csolutions.net) |
| 17:14.23 | Jayce^ | the kool-aid guy never has to do that |
| 17:15.18 | dataw0lf|w | I wonder how often he gets sued for damages. |
| 17:15.52 | vontrapp | can't stand hayden |
| 17:16.00 | vontrapp | he was on jay leno the other night |
| 17:16.12 | vontrapp | wished his mom a happy mothers day to the camera |
| 17:16.34 | vontrapp | leno was dissapointed with his performance and had him do it again, with "feeling" |
| 17:16.45 | vontrapp | he failed just as miserably the second time |
| 17:16.50 | vontrapp | it was terrible |
| 17:17.16 | JoshH | oh well, the movie will still rock |
| 17:17.22 | JoshH | palpatine is a great actor also |
| 17:17.31 | JoshH | ian mcdiarmid that is |
| 17:17.49 | JoshH | it actually seems like everyone is a good actor except for hayden |
| 17:17.55 | vontrapp | hayden is my only real complaint |
| 17:18.09 | dataw0lf|w | and a digital Yoda. |
| 17:18.13 | vontrapp | can't wait till he gets that mask on and the voice thingy so you can't notice |
| 17:18.46 | JoshH | the digital yoda isnt bad imo |
| 17:18.56 | dataw0lf|w | I wonder if they're going to get James Earl Jones in the third to do the voice again. |
| 17:19.00 | JoshH | they are |
| 17:19.02 | dataw0lf|w | I hate all the digital crap. |
| 17:19.19 | JoshH | james earl jones is definitely the voice of vader in episode 3 |
| 17:19.21 | dataw0lf|w | It looked better in the original ones, with muppets and models. |
| 17:19.33 | JoshH | if hayden was doing the vader voice, i would personally assassinate george lucas |
| 17:19.35 | vontrapp | yoda was just a little too unbelievable, imo, especially what with the cane right before |
| 17:20.03 | dataw0lf|w | all the aliens were terrible. |
| 17:20.15 | JoshH | i wish yodas battle with dooku was a bit better done, instead of just having yoda bounce around doing flips |
| 17:20.34 | JoshH | and anakin should have dual wielded for longer |
| 17:20.56 | vontrapp | heh, yeah |
| 17:21.01 | vontrapp | he got beat all to quickly |
| 17:21.06 | mrpull | don't dis the muppets |
| 17:21.21 | mrpull | i'm looking forward to the muppets wizard of oz and much as eps3 :) |
| 17:22.44 | JoshH | ok, any respect i had for your manhood has been obliterated. :P |
| 17:23.00 | Jayce^ | Lisa: What's a muppet? |
| 17:23.01 | vontrapp | mrpull: i got your back man |
| 17:23.03 | dataw0lf|w | you're telling me that you preferred the digitized aliens over the muppets? |
| 17:23.37 | JoshH | i liked the muppet style aliens in the OT better than the digital aliens in the prequels |
| 17:23.52 | JoshH | dexter jettster was awful |
| 17:24.25 | dataw0lf|w | Exactly. |
| 17:24.37 | dataw0lf|w | Lucas needs to get off the technology trip. |
| 17:25.00 | JoshH | but honestly i didnt think the digital yoda was that bad |
| 17:25.32 | dataw0lf|w | not as bad as some of the others, but I would've much preferred a muppet. |
| 17:26.06 | hans | he just wasn't as analog as the yoda we all loved |
| 17:26.12 | JoshH | it was important to make him look younger and healthier than he was in the OT, and i think they did a good job with the ditital yoda |
| 17:26.27 | hans | and yeah, too much flipping. you think of yoda as a less is more sort of guy |
| 17:27.06 | JoshH | i cant wait to see yoda fighting palpatine tomorrow |
| 17:27.08 | *** join/#utah bucky (~bucky@bucky.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 17:27.29 | JoshH | and mace windu fighting again |
| 17:27.38 | JoshH | the movie is basically going to just be one sweet fight after another |
| 17:29.03 | *** join/#utah Hhhhh (~cristobal@c-67-169-244-47.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 17:29.09 | Hhhhh | hello |
| 17:43.33 | Bradipo | JoshH: No plot eh? |
| 17:44.12 | JoshH | oh, there will be a plot. but the plot will be told during battles, instead of love scenes. |
| 17:46.50 | neybar | I've heard that the dialog hasn't really improved much since ep1 and ep2, but the battles actually make up for the terrible dialog so it isn't so bad. |
| 17:47.50 | JoshH | the dialog in 1 and 2 didn't even bother me. |
| 17:48.03 | JoshH | some of it was bad, but not bad enough to ruin the movies for me |
| 17:50.18 | neybar | ep2 was pretty bad, I rewatched not too long ago and it was worse then I remembered. |
| 17:50.54 | jsmith | Yes, it was bad. |
| 17:51.57 | mrpull | hrmm... Ashanti as Dorothy? Maybe Eps3 might be better... |
| 17:52.27 | mrpull | but a cameo by Quentin Tarantino might make up for it |
| 18:04.13 | *** join/#utah xilch|w (~xilch@66.239.17.226.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 18:10.28 | Uncle_Jesse | excitement in the air I sense |
| 18:10.40 | tyce | Is terantino rumored to be in ep3? |
| 18:10.44 | Uncle_Yoda | ~countdown |
| 18:24.08 | Uncle_Yoda | ibot, countdown starwars is <reply>Today is <date>. Star Wars is on Thurs May 19 2005. Do the math yourself ubergeek! |
| 18:24.38 | Lars-UT | tilde |
| 18:24.47 | Uncle_Yoda | that should work too |
| 18:24.55 | Uncle_Yoda | ~countdown starwars is <reply>Today is <date>. Star Wars is on Thurs May 19 2005. Do the math yourself ubergeek! |
| 18:24.55 | Lars-UT | nevermind, you're right |
| 18:25.03 | Uncle_Yoda | I think ibot's overloaded right now |
| 18:25.18 | Lars-UT | ibot, you're useless |
| 18:25.19 | ibot | ACTION starts crying and hides from lars-ut in the darkest corner of the room. :( |
| 18:25.38 | Uncle_Yoda | btw, I think I know what's wrong w/ my car |
| 18:25.53 | Uncle_Yoda | I looked at the clutch and there's some loose parts down there - some may even be broken |
| 18:26.09 | Uncle_Yoda | I need to compare with my Haynes and see what needs to be replaced/fixed |
| 18:26.32 | Uncle_Yoda | ibot, countdown starwars is <reply>Today is <date>. Star Wars is on Thurs May 19 2005. Do the math yourself ubergeek! |
| 18:26.53 | Uncle_Yoda | ibot, work! |
| 18:26.54 | ibot | i heard work is punishment for failing to procrastinate effectively. |
| 18:37.39 | *** join/#utah leinaD (~chatzilla@graphics.sendsations.com) |
| 18:38.06 | leinaD | On a Unix system should I use \n for new lines in the body and header when sending email or \r\n? |
| 18:45.15 | Lars-UT | ibot, countdown starwars is <reply>Today is $date. Star Wars is on Thurs May 19 2005. Do the math yourself ubergeek! |
| 18:46.20 | Lars-UT | countdown starwars is <reply>Today is $date. Star Wars is on Thurs May 19 2005. Do the math yourself ubergeek!~ |
| 18:46.28 | Lars-UT | ~countdown starwars is <reply>Today is $date. Star Wars is on Thurs May 19 2005. Do the math yourself ubergeek! |
| 18:47.23 | Lars-UT | ~no, countdown starwars is <reply> Today is $date. Star Wars is on Thurs May 19 2005. Do the math yourself ubergeek! |
| 18:49.17 | Uncle_Yoda | ibot's dead |
| 18:49.24 | Uncle_Yoda | ibot, play dead |
| 18:49.25 | ibot | ACTION imitates Al Gore |
| 18:49.50 | Uncle_Yoda | ~joke |
| 18:49.52 | ibot | joke 3 |
| 18:50.02 | Uncle_Yoda | ibot needs to tell jokes |
| 18:51.11 | leinaD | ~countdown starwars |
| 18:51.13 | leinaD | err |
| 18:51.13 | leinaD | countdown starwars |
| 18:51.13 | leinaD | did I just break it? |
| 18:51.18 | Lars-UT | ~emulate Ms Bitters |
| 18:51.19 | ibot | The lesson here is that dreams inevitably lead to hideous implosions. That's why the skool has instituted this test. |
| 18:51.46 | Lars-UT | ~literal countdown starwars |
| 18:51.47 | ibot | "countdown starwars" is "<reply>Today is $date. Star Wars is on Thurs May 19 2005. Do the math yourself ubergeek!" |
| 18:53.26 | Lars-UT | ~rightnow |
| 18:53.27 | ibot | Wed May 18 18:53:27 2005 |
| 18:53.46 | Lars-UT | ~literal rightnow |
| 18:53.47 | ibot | "rightnow" is "<reply> $date" |
| 18:54.49 | Lars-UT | Uncle_Yoda: I'm not sure what's wrong with the statement. |
| 18:55.22 | Uncle_Yoda | yeah - not sure either |
| 18:55.26 | Uncle_Yoda | ~joke |
| 18:55.27 | ibot | What's a chicken coupe with 4 doors - a Chicken Sedan! |
| 18:55.34 | Uncle_Yoda | ~literal joke |
| 18:55.35 | ibot | "joke" is "<reply>A bhuddist monk goes to a hot dog vendor and says "Make me one with everything!"||<reply>What's a chicken coupe with 4 doors - a Chicken Sedan!" |
| 18:55.40 | Uncle_Yoda | you all can add as you please |
| 18:59.10 | *** join/#utah sjansen (~sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 18:59.24 | sjansen | http://www.novell.com/products/desktop/decalkit.html?sourceidint=hp_b_nldDecal |
| 18:59.45 | sjansen | Get'em while their hot, people! |
| 18:59.58 | sjansen | s/their/they're/ |
| 19:03.30 | leinaD | sjansen: does it replace the "Made for MS Windows" sticker? My resolution is too small to really see it. |
| 19:05.07 | dataw0lf|w | um, yeah. I think that's the point. |
| 19:08.51 | bucky | ~seen sjansen |
| 19:09.09 | ibot | sjansen <~sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #utah, 9m 11s ago, saying: 's/their/they're/'. |
| 19:11.04 | *** join/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog@166.70.34.182) |
| 19:18.05 | levi-laptop | Ahhh... it's good to have been on a bike ride again. |
| 19:18.53 | bucky | good weather? |
| 19:21.43 | mrpull | why must the suse ftp installer suck so? |
| 19:22.02 | levi-laptop | Not too bad. A little windy, but nice temperature. |
| 19:22.12 | levi-laptop | And I haven't been on my bike in far too long. |
| 19:26.34 | vontrapp | oh boy, wonder what they're going to do with all those obsolete stickers |
| 19:28.39 | bucky | mrpull, because they want to encourage you to buy the boxed cd set |
| 19:29.20 | bucky | vontrapp, when are they going to make the SuSE lizard extinct? |
| 19:29.21 | mrpull | i realize that... but man... it's crapped out on me twice now |
| 19:29.50 | vontrapp | bucky: "Designed for Windows" stickers |
| 19:30.09 | vontrapp | on sjansen's link |
| 19:30.19 | bucky | mrpull, send them you're money.. that's why they put YAST in there |
| 19:30.27 | *** part/#utah bigdog_ut (~bigdog@166.70.34.182) |
| 19:30.54 | vontrapp | they're collecting the windows stickers that people send in at some artistic recycling division |
| 19:31.10 | leinaD | does anyone know how to make % move between html tags on vim? I know I need a plugin but I don't know where to get it, or even where to start looking |
| 19:31.20 | bucky | vontrapp, the "Designed for Windows" stickers are being replaced by the "Novell Desktop" stickers |
| 19:31.30 | vontrapp | yep |
| 19:31.39 | bucky | back to the uniform of the day.. *salute* |
| 19:31.43 | mrpull | i'll stick with my other favorite distro's |
| 19:31.52 | vontrapp | and novell asks that you send the used windows stickers to Redmund Artistic Recycling Project (RARP) |
| 19:31.56 | mrpull | i just wanted to give 9.3 a test drive, but i've wasted too much time |
| 19:32.53 | bucky | mrpull, it's too bad they don't make it easy for you.. that was what the SuSE live cd was supposed to do... give you a preview |
| 19:34.16 | bucky | Novell should make it easy to get SuSE complete with mono and mono-xsp working |
| 19:34.45 | bucky | but some suit is saying "we need to break even on this division" |
| 19:35.27 | bucky | i worked in a shop like that.. it was all about sales... support was the indentured servants |
| 19:35.33 | mrpull | bucky: I'm aware of the livecd... i want to demo installing packages, play with xen, etc |
| 19:35.46 | bucky | mrpull, sure... everyone does |
| 19:36.24 | bucky | SuSE was the first that I know of to have a live cd.. but it's never been very good IMHO |
| 19:38.59 | *** join/#utah drewbono (~andrew@c-67-161-242-223.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 19:42.19 | dataw0lf|w | DemoLinux was the first live cd, iirc. |
| 19:45.46 | mrpull | one more gripe (or two or three)... why cant suse lookup current list of mirrors in the installer |
| 19:47.11 | mrpull | and what app asks for an IP address instead of a hostname these days? |
| 19:47.20 | mrpull | it already knows what my nameserver is |
| 19:49.09 | *** join/#utah decriptor (~decriptor@207.88.76.120.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 19:49.17 | decriptor | hey all |
| 19:49.31 | Uncle_Yoda | ~joke |
| 19:49.32 | ibot | A bhuddist monk goes to a hot dog vendor and says "Make me one with everything!" |
| 19:49.46 | Uncle_Yoda | anyone got any more jokes to add to ibot? |
| 19:50.12 | decriptor | I need some help with a ipsec problem on openBSD boxes |
| 19:50.55 | decriptor | I have a bsd box on the american fork network so it had a private ip. I got a public for it, however it's just redirected to the internal ip. |
| 19:51.47 | decriptor | I'm guessing that when it goes to encrypt the stuff it encrypts it with the internal instead of the external stopping the connection from working. I was wondering can I spoof the address so it goes out correctly |
| 19:51.49 | decriptor | ? |
| 19:55.39 | mrpull | ipsec can have issues with NAT... i'm sorry i don't know anything about bsd firewalls tho. |
| 19:57.38 | dataw0lf|w | what do your flows look like decriptor ? |
| 19:58.25 | decriptor | sorry I'm not right at the machines |
| 19:58.41 | decriptor | I'll see if I can explain better what is going on |
| 19:59.59 | decriptor | I have one side that is set to 111.111.111.111 public and the other set to 222.222.222.222 which redirects to 10.10.10.10 what I think is happening is that 10.10.10.10 is sending out packages with the 10.10.10.10 address instead of the 222.222.222.222 |
| 20:00.12 | decriptor | so the 111.111.111.111 thinks that someone is trying to hack it |
| 20:00.15 | decriptor | ? |
| 20:01.00 | vontrapp | if only we could get ibot to parse some html |
| 20:01.18 | vontrapp | (with only her irc interface) |
| 20:03.24 | vontrapp | ~literal rss |
| 20:03.25 | ibot | "rss" is "a way of feeding news from a page in a easier way than a regular browser" |
| 20:03.58 | tene | ~taco |
| 20:03.59 | ibot | TACO TACO TACO! |
| 20:04.03 | tene | ~polio |
| 20:04.45 | Bradipo | decriptor: Do you have multiple IPs on one interface? |
| 20:05.01 | dataw0lf|w | decriptor: um, something like a pf nat rule e.g. nat on <interface> from 10.10.10.10 to any -> 222.222.222.222 |
| 20:05.09 | dataw0lf|w | ? |
| 20:06.35 | dataw0lf|w | do you have nat setup ? (pfctl -s state) |
| 20:07.58 | decriptor | what is happening is (from what I understand) the City assigns the ip 222.222.222.222 on a cisco to redirect to 10.10.10.10 on the internal network. so from the outside when someone goes to 222.222.222.222 it goes to the cisco and then all traffic is sent onto the internal ip. So the internal box doesn't know anything about the 222.222.222.222 and doesn't need to for normal use however when you do ipsec in bsd you have to specify the publ |
| 20:08.54 | Bradipo | decriptor: So 222... is the public IP and 10.... is the NAT IP on the internal network? |
| 20:08.59 | dataw0lf|w | I thought you were talking about an OpenBSD box DOING the translation from internal to external? |
| 20:09.06 | decriptor | so what I was thinking is if I could spoof the ip on ipsec traffic to show the external interface being the true public |
| 20:09.08 | dataw0lf|w | and vice versa. |
| 20:09.14 | Bradipo | Sounds like OpenBSD is the internal machine and there is a Cisco that is doing NAT. |
| 20:09.31 | decriptor | Bradipo: Right unfortunately that is done by the ISP |
| 20:09.31 | dataw0lf|w | Bradipo: Yeah, but he didn't describe it that way earlier. |
| 20:09.54 | decriptor | sorry I didn't explain it very well |
| 20:10.01 | Bradipo | Not sure if OpenBSD supports NAT Traversal yet, but it might. |
| 20:10.38 | dataw0lf|w | Bradipo: it's not. |
| 20:10.53 | decriptor | I don't think that I need to do that for this to work the bsd box is acting as a firewall. In a way 10.10.10.10 is the public to the 192.168.0.0 netowrk |
| 20:11.19 | decriptor | the 192 being my internal and then the 10.10.10.10 being the cities internal |
| 20:11.49 | decriptor | this is almost one of the abnormal situations |
| 20:12.21 | mrpull | i get the feeling that ipsec isn't going to be the right solution to your problem. is an ssh tunnel appropriate? |
| 20:12.32 | dataw0lf|w | err, wait, OpenBSD does support NAT traversal. |
| 20:12.34 | dataw0lf|w | Hm. |
| 20:12.37 | dataw0lf|w | I should upgrade. |
| 20:12.44 | decriptor | ssh will work however the aim of this is a vpn |
| 20:13.03 | decriptor | it already does |
| 20:13.08 | mrpull | a lan-to-lan vpn? |
| 20:13.20 | decriptor | yeah one from here in utah to one in jersey |
| 20:13.29 | Bradipo | Except they aren't truly routed... |
| 20:13.35 | Bradipo | There is NAT happening in between. |
| 20:14.23 | Bradipo | Why not just replace the Cisco? :-) |
| 20:14.26 | decriptor | yes and no I don't know that AFCity nats the address per say I think they say if you see any traffic coming in send to this internal address |
| 20:14.43 | decriptor | I don't own that's where the problem starts |
| 20:14.57 | decriptor | I have tons of bsd ipsec networks setup this is just a weird one |
| 20:15.18 | Bradipo | Well, it does get weird when NAT is involved. |
| 20:15.25 | decriptor | I guess it is nated |
| 20:16.24 | decriptor | what i was almost wondering is if you spoof the address on the bsd box so that the packet appears to be coming from the 222.222.222.222 instead of 10.10.10.10 then the other side might accept it |
| 20:16.46 | dataw0lf|w | depends on how 'the other side' is setup. |
| 20:17.27 | decriptor | it would be setup up to accept packets from the 222.222.222.222 address as far as general setup its on a normal network |
| 20:18.02 | decriptor | so the other side should work with any bsd box that isn't on some weird city high speed thing (former airswitch) |
| 20:18.37 | mrpull | isn't part of the point of ipsec making sure that the IP addresses are real and not spoofed? :) |
| 20:18.47 | dataw0lf|w | mrpull: yeah. |
| 20:18.59 | Bradipo | Right, but you got some chicanery going on from AF. |
| 20:19.33 | Bradipo | Maybe you could wrap the IPSEC packets in an IPIP packet or something. :-) |
| 20:19.59 | decriptor | yeah I know that's what is ironic I have to try and do something that by default the object is designed to prevent |
| 20:20.21 | dataw0lf|w | which is why it'll depend on how it's setup. |
| 20:21.18 | decriptor | the side in jersey is setup normally. It's setup to accept packets from 222.222.222.222 |
| 20:22.06 | dataw0lf|w | http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/bsd/2003/01/09/FreeBSD_Basics.html?page=last |
| 20:22.15 | decriptor | I think that there are enough settings that are correct and don't need anything special done to them other than the external ip of the on in utah |
| 20:41.38 | vontrapp | Children make the most desirable opponents in Scrabble, as they are both easy to beat and fun to cheat. |
| 20:48.19 | hans | hmm, gmail does phishing detection now |
| 20:49.26 | levi-laptop | That's cool. My wife got a phishing attempt a couple of days ago, and it would have been nice if google could have confirmed her fears instead of having her need to ask me about it. |
| 20:58.09 | hans | ~eap |
| 21:00.09 | vontrapp | eap is Edgar Allan Poe |
| 21:00.44 | hans | in the context of WAP |
| 21:00.46 | hans | er, WPA |
| 21:01.37 | vontrapp | Extensible Authentication Protocol? |
| 21:01.55 | vontrapp | Electroactive Polymers? |
| 21:02.12 | Lars-UT | Next week I'm going to buy 2 250GB Drives(http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16822140153) for RAID 1 on Debian Stable. I'm leaning towards XFS for the filesystem, and I'm trying to plan out a partitioning schema that will be easy to migrate in the future. The box is a Samba PDC. Suggestions? |
| 21:03.43 | hans | lvm |
| 21:03.53 | lars-ut | don't need it it with xfs |
| 21:04.02 | hans | sounds to me like you need it. |
| 21:04.12 | lars-ut | really? |
| 21:04.14 | hans | you want a partitioning schema that will be easy to migrate? you want l |
| 21:04.16 | hans | vm |
| 21:04.25 | mrpull | how does xfs eliminate lvm? |
| 21:04.32 | lars-ut | it allows resizing |
| 21:04.43 | hans | but lvm allows resizing "partitions" |
| 21:05.00 | hans | resizing xfs doesn't do much use if you can't resize the partition it resides in. |
| 21:05.11 | hans | you can use xfs in lvm |
| 21:06.45 | lars-ut | looks like I need to peruse the finer points of lvm then. I have never used it. |
| 21:07.04 | hans | it's pretty cool. pretty much moots the whole partitioning dilemna |
| 21:07.23 | hans | and I am doing LVM on software RAID so don't let anyone tell you you can't |
| 21:07.39 | lars-ut | Can I change stuff on the fly? |
| 21:08.04 | hans | how on-the-fly it is depends on various factors, the largest of which is what filesystem is on there |
| 21:08.19 | hans | i.e. some filesystems you have to unmount before you can resize |
| 21:08.22 | lars-ut | assuming no open file handles or mounted filesystems on the partition being changes |
| 21:08.30 | lars-ut | d |
| 21:08.42 | *** join/#utah drip (~scoobmast@67.108.238.129.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 21:08.42 | hans | yeah |
| 21:10.31 | lars-ut | *THAT* is cool. So if nobody was messing with /home (& it had unpartitioned space), I could unmount it, resize the partition, resize the filesystem, and remount it? |
| 21:11.11 | tene | yep |
| 21:11.22 | lars-ut | MMMmmmm.... |
| 21:11.31 | lars-ut | very nice. |
| 21:11.42 | vontrapp | say i have xfs on a "linux" partition, could I just change it to lvm? |
| 21:14.06 | hans | vontrapp: I'm guessing no |
| 21:14.08 | hans | or very hard |
| 21:14.37 | hans | now, if you had another partition to act as temporary you could effectively do it |
| 21:14.51 | hans | but it would consist of copying stuff or dding it or something. |
| 21:15.04 | hans | then setting up lvm, then moving it back. |
| 21:15.24 | vontrapp | i could shrink the fs, split the partition and do all that i guess |
| 21:15.56 | hans | if you're comfortable splitting the partition (partition magic? parted?) |
| 21:16.11 | vontrapp | fdisk |
| 21:16.31 | vontrapp | i've done all kinds of crazy things with partitions before with no data loss |
| 21:16.38 | hans | I'd definitely want to be comfortable with my backup before doing it with fdisk |
| 21:16.42 | hans | but I'm not as crazy as you. :-0 |
| 21:17.16 | lars-ut | if you use dd I recommend bs=128k |
| 21:18.46 | lars-ut | I like rsync with --progress, too. |
| 21:19.26 | lars-ut | dd requires a certain amount of faith imo. |
| 21:19.47 | vontrapp | whyso? |
| 21:19.54 | lars-ut | no status |
| 21:20.01 | vontrapp | ah, right |
| 21:20.06 | lars-ut | you can df |
| 21:20.31 | vontrapp | it tells you on completion how much it copied and how long it took |
| 21:20.46 | vontrapp | but in the interim i guess it takes faith that it hasn't stalled or anything |
| 21:21.20 | lars-ut | that it does. Which doesn't help when you calculated a 4 hour copy & it's already taken 5.5+ hours. I'm recently bitter on this one. |
| 21:22.26 | lars-ut | plus it's too dumb(dd's strong point) to include the bootsector with the copy automatically. |
| 21:22.45 | vontrapp | ? |
| 21:22.58 | vontrapp | bootsector of a partition? |
| 21:23.28 | lars-ut | sorry, I was speaking in the context of an entire drive. I've used it with individual partitions as well. |
| 21:24.00 | vontrapp | how would it not get hte boot sector? |
| 21:25.00 | lars-ut | Here's what I did recently... I had a root partition on /dev/hda1 |
| 21:25.02 | vontrapp | i can never remember the bash magic to mv foo* to just plain * |
| 21:25.22 | tene | rename "foo" "" foo* |
| 21:25.43 | lars-ut | vontrapp: Aww crap, nevermind, I was off on this. |
| 21:25.44 | vontrapp | really? that's nice |
| 21:26.19 | lars-ut | :) |
| 21:26.34 | vontrapp | haha, not you lars-ut |
| 21:26.44 | lars-ut | I know |
| 21:26.47 | vontrapp | tene: i get a syntax error at (eval 1) |
| 21:27.05 | hans | all these good reviews of ep3 warm my heart. ep3 was always the one I was looking forward to most (even before ep1) |
| 21:27.23 | hans | even before plans were announced, and the prequel was just a vague suggestive promise |
| 21:27.24 | lars-ut | ep3 will suck and I will be disappointed |
| 21:27.50 | tene | for i in `ls foo*` ; do mv $i `echo $i | sed 's/foo//'` ; done |
| 21:27.53 | tene | maybe |
| 21:28.25 | lars-ut | That way if it's marginal I'll be quite pleased. So I keep telling myself that. I'm way excited, though. |
| 21:29.59 | hans | tene: you probably want s/^foo// |
| 21:29.59 | lars-ut | Reminds me of the anticipation before other sci-fi films I've seen that had big openings |
| 21:30.22 | hans | not all have been dissapointments. lotr. hgg |
| 21:30.46 | tene | probably, hans |
| 21:30.47 | hans | star trek 6, generations, first contact |
| 21:31.04 | hans | tene: although I guess you don't need it since the sed statement isn't global |
| 21:31.12 | hans | it will only replace the first occurrence |
| 21:31.19 | hans | but anchoring is a good habit. |
| 21:31.24 | tene | it's still nice to... yeah |
| 21:31.27 | vontrapp | yes, it is |
| 21:32.11 | lars-ut | I love watching movies with audiences that are nutter fans - it really amplifies the theater experience. |
| 21:32.27 | lars-ut | Especially if I'm one of them. |
| 21:33.24 | lars-ut | hans: Any caveats with LVM? I don't want to back myself into a corner. |
| 21:34.23 | mrpull | lars-ut: what distro are you using? the setup of lvm used to be a pain, but now the installers can handle it pretty well. |
| 21:34.34 | lars-ut | debian |
| 21:34.54 | mrpull | (with maybe debian being the exception...) |
| 21:35.20 | lars-ut | I was thinking about fc, though |
| 21:35.36 | mrpull | you mean centos? ;-) |
| 21:35.50 | lars-ut | no, fedora |
| 21:35.55 | lars-ut | nice try, though |
| 21:36.02 | lars-ut | :) |
| 21:36.12 | mrpull | i'm joking... but I know I wouldn't run fedora on a production server. |
| 21:36.23 | hans | debian is doable |
| 21:36.29 | lars-ut | this is a production server. |
| 21:36.38 | hans | but not as easy as others |
| 21:36.55 | hans | only caveat is to read the docs first. it's a bit complicated but it might be worth it |
| 21:37.03 | mrpull | lars-ut can pull it off... |
| 21:38.28 | lars-ut | ALL the docs - I think not. |
| 21:39.21 | lars-ut | One thing I am good at is backing up. |
| 21:40.30 | lars-ut | Whenever I'm doing something big like this I first make multiple backups so if & when I screw up I can put humpty back together again - just the way he was before the changes. |
| 21:40.47 | hans | you have more jedi patience than I |
| 21:40.47 | mrpull | wise man. |
| 21:41.10 | hans | not that backups are bad, but I just hate putting things back together |
| 21:41.14 | hans | so I try to be careful up front |
| 21:41.55 | lars-ut | I find that I can usually estimate my time to work on a complex problem by using my first estimate... |
| 21:42.01 | lars-ut | & multiplying by 6 |
| 21:42.27 | lars-ut | That allows for unplanned events in my experience. |
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| 21:58.23 | lars-ut | I was going to use netinst with Woody, but now I'm thinkin' a DVD would be nice. Anybody have one for me? I know there's not an official DVD for Debian Stable. |
| 22:01.53 | vontrapp | is there any way to make a file such that when you 'read' the file some script is run and you read the output of that script instead of the contents of any real file? |
| 22:02.03 | tene | in hurd |
| 22:02.15 | tene | not in linux |
| 22:02.15 | vontrapp | but not in linux? |
| 22:02.20 | vontrapp | dang |
| 22:03.17 | vontrapp | there's named pipes, but that requires a running program outputing to the pipe, not quite what i'd like |
| 22:03.38 | bucky | ~irritate me |
| 22:03.39 | ibot | $what: hi every1 who uses cable hello? |
| 22:04.32 | lars-ut | ~emulate gir |
| 22:04.33 | ibot | my walnuts! |
| 22:05.22 | bucky | woody sucks and the woody installer doesn't have lvm support |
| 22:05.51 | lars-ut | bucky: suggestions? |
| 22:06.03 | bucky | i like sarge |
| 22:06.26 | lars-ut | sarge on production.... hmm.... |
| 22:07.10 | lars-ut | Isn't sarge about ready to go stable? |
| 22:07.15 | vontrapp | you could use the sarge installer and at earliest opportunity enter the woody sources |
| 22:07.41 | bucky | it's almost stable except for a couple of architectures... there's a repos for security updates already and if you keep the entries in sources.list set to sarge it will update to stable automatically |
| 22:07.45 | tensai | vontrapp: that doesn't sound like it'll work |
| 22:07.55 | vontrapp | why? |
| 22:08.00 | bucky | woody and sarge don't mix at all |
| 22:08.11 | bucky | different libc and compiler |
| 22:08.16 | tensai | that's the main reason |
| 22:08.36 | bucky | sarge is plenty good enough |
| 22:08.52 | bucky | if you like debian.. that's the only point of decision |
| 22:09.00 | bucky | some people do.. some don't |
| 22:09.10 | lars-ut | stable enough for a financial services company? |
| 22:09.12 | tensai | I'm using sarge on a few production machines but I'm a little uneasy about it |
| 22:09.37 | tensai | there wasn't any other choice though. woody sparc didn't support our hardware |
| 22:10.00 | bucky | i'd say yes but i watch for security updates... like on linuxhomepage.com |
| 22:10.28 | tensai | woody does support lvm but not on the root partition. if you leave space on your disk, you can add more lvm partitions or drives after install. |
| 22:10.40 | bucky | you have to add the security repos to sources.list.. it just went live |
| 22:12.25 | lars-ut | tensai: describe your disk setup? |
| 22:12.38 | lars-ut | kurasai |
| 22:13.34 | tensai | /dev/hda1 479M 132M 348M 28% / |
| 22:13.34 | tensai | tmpfs 78M 0 78M 0% /dev/shm |
| 22:13.34 | tensai | /dev/VG2/HOME 153G 74G 80G 48% /home |
| 22:13.34 | tensai | /dev/VG1/USR 928M 420M 509M 46% /usr |
| 22:13.34 | tensai | /dev/VG1/VAR 512M 221M 292M 44% /var |
| 22:13.50 | tensai | (it's kudasai, btw) |
| 22:14.34 | tensai | I did a basic install to /dev/hda1 and then moved the big stuff to lvm partitions afterward |
| 22:14.57 | usynic | what is the best way to prevent an accidental infinite loop in an apache cgi script from taking the server down? |
| 22:16.39 | lars-ut | arigato, goz... I'll just type it wrong. I do know how to say it though. My sweetie sprechens nihongo & mandarin. |
| 22:18.07 | dataw0lf|w | usynic: PERL_RLIMIT_CPU |
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| 22:19.14 | dataw0lf|w | usynic: PerlSetEnv PERL_RLIMIT_CPU <# of seconds> |
| 22:19.55 | dataw0lf|w | usynic: where seconds is the max amount of cpu time it gets to use processing before it's killed. |
| 22:20.28 | usynic | hrmm... the default is 360... it seems like it was lasting longer than that. |
| 22:20.33 | dataw0lf|w | http://perl.apache.org/docs/1.0/guide/performance.html |
| 22:23.00 | dataw0lf|w | anyways, you know what my feelings are about Perl. |
| 22:23.19 | dataw0lf|w | (akin to bringing a knife to a gun fight, in anything but 100 line or less scripts) |
| 22:23.43 | hans | sarge is frozen |
| 22:23.47 | dataw0lf|w | but the knife in this case is trying to stab you at the same time :) |
| 22:23.53 | hans | should be released as stable end-of-the month ish |
| 22:24.37 | hans | I wouldn't be the least bit uncomfortable about running sarge or installing sarge for a production machine at this point |
| 22:25.06 | dataw0lf|w | agreed. |
| 22:25.09 | hans | now would also be a good time to make sure your sources point to woody by name instead of stable, or you might have a fun time in a month or two. |
| 22:25.37 | dataw0lf|w | hehe, now that's not a half bad idea. |
| 22:25.41 | hans | (unless of course you want to upgrade, which you might) |
| 22:26.21 | JoshH | how long will woody get security updates after sarge is out? |
| 22:26.39 | hans | a long time probably |
| 22:26.53 | hans | I think potato is just now phasing out? |
| 22:26.56 | dataw0lf|w | >6 months or so. |
| 22:26.58 | hans | could be wrong on that |
| 22:27.10 | tensai | I thought potato updates had stopped a while ago |
| 22:27.32 | JoshH | i cant wait till sarge is out and sid becomes sweet again. then all the people who jumped to ubuntu will be coming back. :) |
| 22:27.51 | dataw0lf|w | Um. |
| 22:27.51 | dataw0lf|w | No. |
| 22:27.57 | dataw0lf|w | But you can keep on thinking that. |
| 22:28.07 | JoshH | well see. ;) |
| 22:28.46 | dataw0lf|w | Yes. Yes, we will. |
| 22:29.40 | JoshH | well, maybe you wont switch back, but a lot of people are going with ubuntu righht now just because it has xorg and a newer gnome. so once sid has those too, there will be less reason to go with ubuntu. |
| 22:29.46 | vontrapp | gah! stupid firefox field auto-unhelpfulness!!!! |
| 22:30.58 | dataw0lf|w | JoshH: Everyone I know who's switched to Ubuntu didn't just switch because of that reason. For workstations and laptops, Ubuntu still wins hands down, if you don't have the patience anymore to spend hours (or days) fixing everything. |
| 22:31.07 | dataw0lf|w | Which I don't. |
| 22:31.34 | dataw0lf|w | And most of the guys I know (majority are fellow Debian freaks), don't either. |
| 22:31.55 | tensai | last security update to woody was June 2002 (ssh) |
| 22:32.45 | tensai | er, not woody. potato |
| 22:36.08 | lars-ut | alright - debian sarge it is. |
| 22:36.50 | bucky | lars-ut, http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/ |
| 22:37.13 | lars-ut | I'll switch to Ubuntu if they change the pronouciation to include one of those glottal stops/ clicks |
| 22:37.18 | bucky | netinst CD image |
| 22:37.30 | bucky | lol |
| 22:37.31 | lars-ut | I've already go it. Thanks, bucky |
| 22:37.35 | tene | you can pronounce it like that on your own, lars. |
| 22:37.39 | lars-ut | :) |
| 22:38.24 | JoshH | dataw0lf|w: i know what youre saying, but it really only takes an hour or two to get a fully useable debian workstation. i did finally get a chance to install ubuntu for someone and it was nice and stuff worked out of the box. |
| 22:38.57 | tene | where did you get a boxed version, Josh? |
| 22:38.59 | JoshH | but im just too stubborn to switch personally. meh. |
| 22:39.27 | lars-ut | worked out of the box, huh? until you tried to oh I dunno... rip a DVD or play an Xvid file - common laptop workstation tasks. |
| 22:39.39 | JoshH | tene: i didnt, i just meant that everything worked right from the start with no messing around required. |
| 22:39.50 | JoshH | lars-ut: mplayer and codecs were easy to install |
| 22:39.51 | lars-ut | I had that experience as well. |
| 22:39.54 | tene | I know, I'm just being a jerk |
| 22:39.55 | JoshH | same way as on debian |
| 22:40.54 | bucky | #debian is inundated with people that don't have a clue as to how to get their java plugin to work with mozilla |
| 22:40.55 | JoshH | i think you can have them ship it to you for free though, actually. dont know what kind of box it comes in though.. |
| 22:40.56 | lars-ut | I can see a place for Ubuntu on laptops, desktops, and workstations. But I didn't mess with it for more than a week. |
| 22:41.32 | bucky | and debian will not ship anything not gpl.. not even mplayer |
| 22:41.41 | lars-ut | I tried Debian Unstable on the same puter, and the above tasks worked fine. |
| 22:41.43 | JoshH | right, but marillat has it all covered |
| 22:41.46 | bucky | and that trips a lot of people up |
| 22:42.04 | bucky | JoshH, sure and there are repos for java |
| 22:42.09 | JoshH | and if dont like those packages, its easy to compile |
| 22:42.10 | mrpull | nothing not gpl? is firefox gpl? apache? OpenSSH? ;-) |
| 22:42.34 | bucky | and a java howto on making a java deb.. in two different ways on debian.org |
| 22:42.34 | lars-ut | heil Stallman |
| 22:42.59 | JoshH | ive never thought java was tough at all to install |
| 22:43.25 | bucky | mrpull, well what ever their idea of that is... why do you want to argue about it? |
| 22:43.41 | mrpull | not argue. clarify :) |
| 22:44.13 | lars-ut | I'll remember that. "Honey, I just want to clarify." |
| 22:44.18 | bucky | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:44.19 | mrpull | Debian has a definition of what is Free, it doesn't necessarily need to be GPL. |
| 22:44.33 | mrpull | lars-ut has the idea :) |
| 22:44.59 | bucky | there was a big discussion about that already |
| 22:45.02 | bucky | old news |
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| 22:47.43 | lars-ut | ate mais... |
| 22:49.55 | bucky | JoshH, java isn't hard to install.. but debian has update-alternatives so you can manage the versions of different programs like gcc for instance or java |
| 22:50.05 | bucky | and that concept throws a lot of people |
| 22:50.46 | JoshH | ya |
| 22:51.07 | bucky | you'd be surprised how many people can't figure out how to make a link to /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins |
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